Strategic Relocation Briefing: Pacific SouthWest: Northern Arizona: The Makings Of Some Good Retreat Country

by | Jul 26, 2014 | Strategic Relocation | 274 comments

Do you LOVE America?


    Editor’s Note: This week’s strategic relocation briefing focuses on the southernmost tip of the Expanded Western Relocation Zone as defined by survival expert Joel Skousen. Water is obviously of great concern just about anywhere in the Western part of the United States, but that doesn’t have to stop you from finding a safe and remote location outside of highly populated metropolitan areas. For those living in populous areas of Southern California, Southern Nevada and Arizona, staying in the city during a large-scale emergency could prove deadly. But, having a retreat location in Utah or Idaho may not be a possibility because of the sheer distances involved, which makes northern Arizona a location worth considering. It can be accessed in an emergency on a single tank of gas for most of those living in or around Los Angeles, Las Vegas or Phoenix, and it is remote enough to keep you out of the way of the golden horde as it makes its way out of cities in search of resources. In the briefing below, provided by the Strategic Relocation Blog, Skousen identifies the safest spots in Northern Arizona by highlighting, among other things, security considerations and how to find water with ease. 

    Whether Northern Arizona is your destination or not, Joel Skousen, as always, provides a wide array of information, ideas, concerns and solutions applicable for anyone looking to make a strategic relocation move.

    When you’re ready to start searching for your perfect home or retreat visit the For Sale By Owner listings at the Strategic Relocation web site. Real estate is available for those living in any part of the United States and most listings include survival ratings provide by the Survival Retreat Consulting team and/or Joel Skousen.

    (Pictured: Natural Spring Havasu Indian Reservation, Northern Arizona)

    Weekly Strategic Relocation Briefing—Northern Arizona
    By Joel Skousen
    Author, Strategic Relocation and The Secure Home

    SR-logoNorthern Arizona differs in many important ways from the Phoenix area, with its high population density, and extreme summer heat.  The higher altitudes of northern Arizona allow for more moderate summer temperatures as well as beautiful fir and pine forests at the higher elevations.  This mountainous and hilly region also provides more privacy from long distance views on passing highways that is not possible in a flat desert landscape.  Best yet, the population densities are much lower and there are a lot of prepper minded people in northern Arizona.

    From a strategic point of view, northern Arizona provides a very important niche in my view of safe areas in the West. This is why I have included this area as the southernmost anchor of my expanded recommended Western Relocation Zone—see the link here.  Purists complain that this area is too close to Phoenix and even Southern California to be safe, but that reasoning cuts both ways.  Compared to the other choices, it’s a great compromise.

    It is precisely because it is so difficult to get from Southern California and Phoenix to the safer areas farther north in Utah, Idaho and Western Colorado that northern Arizona provides a key solution to avoiding those choke points. Let me quickly describe the problem:

    Because of the massive blocking effect of the Grand Canyon, there are only two major roads leading north to the safety of the Intermountain West—I-5 going the Vegas (not good) and US-89 leading north out of Flagstaff, Arizona (better—but it’s only a two lane road).  Yes, you can go a lot farther east to US-191 and then go north to southeastern Utah but now you’re getting beyond a day’s drive and running out of fuel.

    Betting on a bug-out plan that involves getting north through those two choke points is foolhardy at best, if not impossible unless you get out with advanced warning. So, for people in the populous areas of So. California and the Phoenix/Mesa area, who can’t permanently relocate, but must have a retreat strategy as their main option, northern  Arizona is a much more doable destination within a day’s drive and a correctly designed and outfitted bug-out bag, than the more distant safer areas which may be impossible to get to, regardless of supplies and planning.  Making these kinds of wise compromises is the essence of good strategic planning.

    The major objection to northern Arizona as a retreat destination (after proximity to dangerous urban area) is the lack of water.  But it’s not productive to complain about low amounts of water in the Intermountain West in general or in Arizona in particularly—you aren’t trying to feed the whole world, nor get water for the whole state—just enough to serve your particular retreat.  Arizona may be a desert but there are many places in northern Arizona where impermeable subterranean rock layers cause water to pool underground in large aquifers or move horizontally, creating year round springs and streams.  In  places where you can find good water supplies, combined with Arizona’s abundant solar potential and the right alternative energy package, northern Arizona has the makings of some good retreat country.

    The Holy Grail of information on water in Arizona is this map that catalogs every water well in the state.   It is interactive, so zoom into the area you are interested in, and then click on the individual red dots in that area and it will give you the depth of the well and the flow rate—just the information you need to have some idea of what kind of water resources exist, and how costly it will be to drill.

    In certain areas of northern Arizona, people even haul water because the aquifer is over 2,000 feet deep—way too deep to drill economically.  There are a lot of these areas around Ash Fork in the Flagstaff area that can only afford cheap land without water, and choose to haul water.  It’s more common than you might think:

    More than half of the people who live on the Navajo Reservation haul water, and so do hundreds of others in the areas around Flagstaff, Williams and Kingman.  Only a big developer has the resources to drill for deep water and provide the storage tanks for community water systems.  But at least we ought to be grateful that Arizona allows people to build a house without a well.  Most jurisdictions do not. “It’s a way of life in these areas,” says Tom Whitmer, manager of statewide water resources planning for the Arizona Department of Water Resources.

    While I would only choose a no-water site as a last resort, it’s not particularly expensive to haul water in this area. According to a local website, “The water-filling stations in Ash Fork, a tiny town west of Williams in northern Yavapai County, draw lines of trucks all day on the weekends. The town is served by a small water system, but most residents beyond a square mile or so must haul water or have it hauled in. Most people know what they’re getting into and would rather haul water than pony up the assessments needed to build a community system.”

    Of course, thinking strategically, that water hauling system completely breaks down without electricity to run the city pumps and gasoline to fuel the water trucks.  So, don’t make these kinds of decisions based upon current conditions.

    Here are some of my comments in Strategic Relocation about various northern Arizona locations to consider:

    Flagstaff: This is a beautiful area but it is a major exit route from Phoenix, and will also collect everyone coming north from Phoenix on I-17 and west from California trying to avoid the Las Vegas bottleneck. Collector towns like Flagstaff actually serve a beneficial purpose in absorbing refugees for a period of time, giving those not in town more time to react.  So, pick locations in this area that are not visible from paved roads.  Fortunately, there are many forested home sites in the Flagstaff area to choose from.

    Sedona:  We used to recommend Sedona, but it has become very expensive now, and puts you in the path of everyone coming from the south on hwy 89.  If you have retreat property in the immediate mountains around Sedona and don’t have to leave, that’s acceptable. A good compromise area away from Sedona proper is the farm land and homes along Oak Creek between Cottonwood and Sedona.  It does flood once a year, so make sure the land is out of the flood plain. This year round river valley has good water and year round growing potential.

    While Sedona and Flagstaff do have mountainous areas in the vicinity which offer potential retreat sites, the best areas are farther away from the future refugee flows that will come out of Phoenix. Most of the good farm/ranch retreat areas were former Mormon colonies in Arizona.  The pioneers always picked areas with good water supplies for irrigation. Mormons no longer are the majority in these areas, but their heritage of preparedness gives the area a good base, combined with a lot of evangelical Christians, which make up the new majority.  Between Prescott and Sedona along the Verde river you will find Cornville.  North of town there are lots of irrigated farms that make fairly good retreat sites.

    Payson is a fine ranching and farming community at the base of Arizona’s northern mountains, but it too is the first major town refugees traveling up highway 87 will meet, thus pick retreat property in the Star Valley area or farther north up into the mountains.  Off of Hwy 288 you find the small town of Young which is in a small valley surrounded by rugged mountains.

    The towns across northern side of these mountain ranges offer the best survival potential because the mountains block the arrival of most refugees: Heber and Show Low, deep into the mountains and the closest to pine forests, are the favorites, but the altitude is too high for many warm weather crops.  Snowflake is a farming community at lower elevation near the mountains but in territory fairly barren of trees. As in most places in the high desert you’ve got to get above 6 or 7 thousand feet in order to get enough snowfall staying on the ground to grow forests. Springerville farther east is also a farming town but closer to the mountains.

    In summary, there are a lot of potential retreat sites to choose from—just do your homework about ensuring a good water supply.  This area is a good choice for people in the Phoenix area or So. California looking for part time retreats.  But if you are coming from the East Coast out west for a permanent relocation site, based on safety criteria rather than sunshine alone, the more northern areas of the Western Relocation Area are better in the long term. Check back next week as I review yet another relocation destination.

    Survival Retreat Consulting: Having lived in Prescott the area is a great place to live. Unfortunately, it’s directly in the path of the Phoenix refugee flow, so not highly recommended for a retreat locale. In an extreme event, downtown  Prescott would succomb quickly, however, there are many parcels near town and into the National Forest that may offer a compromise between the ‘Local / Remote’ rule and defensibility. Check out the Groom Creek area, as well as southwest of Prescott off highway 89 towards Yarnell and Kirkland. Southeast of Prescott on Forest Service Road 28 (Lynx Creek) and into Walker. These areas are well off the beaten path yet allow those that want to be closer to Prescott the ability to come into town within a reasonable commute. Moving to the North of Prescott, follow North Williamson Valley Road to find a few gems in the rough. To the east. Cottonwood, just down the hill from the old mining town of Jerome, has the Verde River flowing through it. A few nice parcels may be available on the river.

    When you’re ready to start searching for your perfect home or retreat visit the For Sale By Owner listings at the Strategic Relocation web site. Real estate is available for those living in any part of the United States and most listings include survival ratings provide by the Survival Retreat Consulting team and/or Joel Skousen.

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      1. It’s a bad idea to pull up roots and move to the middle of nowhere out of fear that something bad may happen. The number of people who can move on a whim must be very, very small.

        • This guy constantly recommends places I would avoid like the plague. I have no intention of dying in the desert or fighting over water.

          Trucking water in is not something one can depend on either.

          If you live in Phoenix, maybe you can think about it if you can’t move one of the millions of better places to be than Arizona.

          Since water is the first consideration, you may as well go to where there is plenty and lots of rain.

          • No doubt! Arizona? You’ll be overrun by mexican idiots in no time at all. IMO Arizona would be the nastiest place to live. Northern Michigan for me. Till Death Do I Part.
            GOT WATER??? I’ll take all the snow I can get over sand any day!

            • I was thinking about just where is the best location to be after MEGA SHTF, and it really and truly depends on the circumstances.

              For example the above article talks about areas in Arizona. For an economic collapse yes, for nuclear war absolutely no. Air falls at around 30 degrees away from the equator as the air circulation catches up with the rotation of the planet and the air falls. Air that falls compresses like a tire pump and thus you have dry hot air and deserts about 30 degrees in latitude. Unless there is a warm humid body of water like the Gulf of Mexico, these areas are arid or semi-arid. Falling air means death from radiation in mega doses.

              A recent article talked about Costa Rica. This is between 10 degrees south and 10 degfrees north where the air is usually always rising. Perfect to avoid fallout. Costa Rica though has a magnitude of problems from disease such as rabies to some pretty intense geophysical events such as volcanoes and BIG earthquakes. It is also a tiny country that has no military protection from even the countries around them that have had some awful dictators.

              Another article had Idaho. Which has much to be positive about. There is of course Yellowstone to contend with. The winters make survival very difficult. The growing season for crops is very short. Idaho has much to think about as it will be one of only a few states that will remain a gun free zone.

              Someone going down to southern Chile or Argentina would be safer from fallout, they would be isolated, and there is plenty of food and clean water. The main concern with these areas are that they have oil offshore, especially in the Falkland Islands region and countries will fight over this. There is little protection from militaries that want these vast natural resources that are on land and sea. Besides this the economies of Chile and Argentina are extremely shaking and anyone buying property down here could lose it to a collapsing government, especially to a foreigner owning property.

              Central Africa in the highlands would be wonderful for fallout protection. There is plenty of food and water and things grow very well there. Biggest problems are that the natives there are very unstable and the disease is dangerous. Ebola and Marburg are here for one thing.

              You can find problems and assets with anywhere you go. You have to weigh the desires in which you want to protect yourself. One of the best ideas is to make up a chart of what someone wants. Put a high priority on nuclear war safety, or highest priority with economic collapse, maybe natural disaster safety is your highest. Put down other needs. Then take each location and score them based on what matters to you personally, not others. The highest score would be your most ideal place for you individually. This type of non-biased chart can show you that certain places might not be too desirable and others might not be too bad. The chart should include a weighted point system to what is most important and least important to you. What matters to you and your family is all that is really important.

              • After a Mega SHTF, no one is going anywhere unless you have a plane, helicopter, or balloon!!! Be there to get there. There is lots of water for a BOL in Northern Arizona between 4,000 to 7,500 feet and below that elevation if you know where to look. Northeastern Arizona below the rim or on the edge is a prime location.

                The forested areas of Arizona are a very real fire danger. Do not build a house in the forest, unless it is underground, or you have large pasture areas with a stone perimeter fence.

                Flagstaff has 309 days of sunshine every year with rain showers, including some hail, just about every day in the summer; but it beats a Haboob in Phoenix. A couple decent golf courses, tennis courts, and several fitness clubs if you don’t live in a country club. Snow and cold in winter. Very cold. Williams and Parks are good BOL. Lots of wind on the Rim too!!!

                Prescott Valley and Big Bug will over flow with any refugees that can escape from Phoenix in their RV’s; but head to Prescott a few more miles west on Hwy 69, its cooler in summer and the locals are always jamming at the Courthouse square. If you own a bar on Whiskey Row, you can make a fortune from the refugees.

                Cottonwood is a good BOL and relatively cheap. There is also a new subdivison of low to moderately priced homes north of the Verde River. Locate to Sedona if you prefer to chant the gohanson and need your chakras purged.

                Chino Valley is cheap for you homesteaders and a good place for a small farm if you cannot afford American Ranch. The really bold and those who prefer some isolation could head to Skull Valley or Yarnell. No one is going to walk up the switchbacks of Hwy 89 to get you.

                Globe is on the East side of the State and you must be going there to get there, or going through it to Show Low, Lakeside, and Pinetop on the Rim; or take the cut off to Payson, Pine, and Happy Jack. Folloow the main hwy east to Safford, and then to Silver City NM. Its all good!!!

                Be there to get there. 🙂

                • The best part of Arizona is the gun laws. 🙂

                  • When the shit hits the fan, gun laws won’t mean shit!

                  • “””The best part of Arizona is the gun laws. :-)”””

                    There is only ONE gun law, and that is that the right to keep and bear arms SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED.

                    All other “laws” are Unlawful….

                  • Hey DK, you forgot to mention the out of control fascist police state Arizona is. The cops there a truly “jackbooted government thugs.”

                    True story: One day in the summer of 2003 while leaving Fountain Hills on our way to the Salt River, my 13 year old daughter and I were pulled over by a female DPS officer for the crime of “lane sweeping.” The goon demanded my 13 year old daughter produce ID. She had none of course, at which point this scumbag threatened to arrest her so that she could be properly identified! I couldn’t believe it. I knew it was an empty threat, but it didn’t stop one of Arizona’s “finest” from engaging in intimidation. After being issued a “letter of extortion,” we were free to go. Needless to say, the experience gave my daughter a better understanding of the real nature of the “police.”

                    From the local Pd’s, to the county Sheriffs, to the DPS; Arizona law enforcement breeds a fascist and thuggish culture. They like it that way!

                    It’s one of the reasons I left Arizona.

                  • If you have found a state where the banksters’ psychopathic enforcers do NOT grenade babies and shoot seniors and innocents in the back, please let us all know.

                • Arizona is a great place to live. That’s why, until water could be imported, few people settled there. Stay there, DK.

                  • Call me, big boy.

                • My summation is that most people within a 200 mile radius might want to go the locations you suggest. Provided that gasoline has not been confiscated by the NDAA, or you run into armed roadblocks with blackhawks overhead impeding you to the destination…seems the more these places are talked about for their resources…there will be a caravan of vehicles all heading in the same direction..a road to Baghdad scenario.
                  I know I can’t escape SoCal…best case for me is to use the urban jungle like a real jungle..urban guerilla warfare is what may well be my experience…so I think along those lines for a action plan..which would involve lots of alluding and hit and run. I know the 250cc enduro will be the horse of the fight for Freedom and least in the urban jungle.

                  I would rather die on my feet..
                  …then serve on my knees

                • One important note: Skull Valley is THE hangout for the Hell’s Angels and their meth production. Be ready to take on a fairly organized and well armed group.

              • I had a good chuckle a few days ago. I was perusing online For Sale By Owner properties and the highlighted Arizona property was touted as an “off-grid property” and it was in the middle of nowhere, BUT STILL HAD A HOMEOWNERS ASSOCIATION.

                Go figure.

                • I’m sorry, but this topic is getting pretty boring. Allow me to direct your attention to something WORTH debating:

                  Ohio Sheriff Sends Mexico a Bill; What Happens Next Should SCARE You

                  ht tps://

                  Mexican Drug Cartel Puts a Price on Arizona Sheriff’s Head

                  ht tps://

                  • Sorry lady….

                    But, there is nothing that “scares”, or surprises me anymore.

                    When a person becomes sick and tired of being sick and tired; and they have read and researched as much as I have, for truth; then it’s just a waiting game from here on in, or out, whichever way you want to look at it.

                    After getting into deeper truths as is told in the book “Under the Sign of the Scorpion”, there is not much left to unravel, just the basic day to day bullshit, of which i have had enough of.

                    Oh btw, I want to send a very heartfelt thank you, out to Pissed Off Granny for making that book known to us on SHTF. I know many folks don’t appreciate her seemingly zealous approach at getting folks to see the truth about the fake jews and how they control so much,but; her heart is in the right place, and that is what really matters.

                    Yep, sixpack; it is just a waiting game now to see if the sting of death gets me to the eternity or the “twinkling of an eye” change. I yearn for the former, but God has the final say.

                    Scared? Of no one or nothing on this planet.
                    Have a good Sunday.

                  • passinwiththewind, I just copied and pasted the titles to the videos, so everybody would know what the link went to. As far as “there is nothing that “scares”, or surprises me anymore.” I have to wonder what it’s like to become “comfortably numb”…I can’t seem to do it.

                    What’s your secret?

              • Traveling nomad after the big die off. North in summer to cooler climates, then south to warmer.. Maybe.. if the bullets are not still as numerous as houseflies

                • I wouldn’t do that. You’re bound to run into somebody dangerous along the way. You could get shot walking on to another prepper’s property. After dealing with a number of attackers, some people might just kill anybody who comes unto their property.

                  • A 4wd diesel-powered Chinook would be suitable. Okay, make that an RV conversion from a retrofitted Brinks truck for that e-x-t-r-a measure of safety that we all want…Ü

                  • I wouldn’t do that for one reason that can be posed as a question: Where the hell is he gonna get the fuel to do that?

                    I suspect he’ll also have a very tough time carrying enough spare tires to keep up with all the, well, ‘tourist traps’ (for lack of a better description).

                    An RV would be great to get the hell out of dodge on a one-way trip to the BOL… assuming you get out early enough.

                • Hi .02:

                  Sorry to interrupt your thought but wanted to thank PWTW for his kind words. For whatever reason any reply to his post, as you can see, is blocked.

                  Go figure……….

              • Basic Prepper Rule of 3’s- 3 Days without Water. “This is your Brain; This is your Brain without water.” Any Questions?

              • BI, this one is for your eyes, what I have been dreaming could come to fruition…
                I might be in moderation for hours, since I was a BAD MAN…

                ht tp://

              • The article refereed mostly to where to shelter for people stuck in the region, not to a preferred location.
                As to what dangers to avoid; most any Southern hemisphere location is fallout preferred to the Northern hemisphere as most targets are in the North and there is little atmospheric exchange between the two hemispheres. In my experience, New Zealand is preferred except for the high cost of property. Selected parts of Australia too although the high cost of land anywhere you’d want to live is also an issue. Their gun laws can be gotten around. Browning (etc.) lever actions in 308, etc are legal as are Dbl. barren shotguns and buckshot. Adequate for any sensible person.
                Any foreign country can present challenges you never though you’d encounter till you actually live there. Do trust me on that. Even countries such as Australia or Canada have different values and issues come up that in a SHTF that’s going to be a real challenge.
                As to the US; Pick a location without serious natural disaster issues; hurricanes, earthquakes, long term drought, forest fires, ethnic invasion, tornado alley. These do happen as opposed to might happen like economic collapse or nuclear war.
                As to water; it’s basic – period. Depend on trucking in water or using ground water at your peril.
                When I retired and chose a retreat location I had those issues in mind and chose the upper Mississippi valley as my spot. Specifically the Driftless. No issues with natural disasters, no major cities or even towns nearby, fertile soil and beautiful topography, cheap land, abundant water – my deep, solar powered well could provide water for a village if necessary.
                After living in the West for 40 years, I kinda pity all you folks out there.

                • @Expat what is the “the Driftless” where (roughly) did you end up retiring to?

              • The biggest issue I have with worrying about a total nuclear war is that I see it as both highly improbable and difficult to prep for. The thing is, no one wants to be forced to live under ground for decades, and that includes the global elite that would decide to use nukes for megadeath. I find it far more likely that they will use some form of biological warfare. This would be something like the recent “experimental” combination of H1N1 influenza with rabies that produced a hybrid that the human immune system is unable to do anything with and is also airborne. (This was supposedly done by the CDC as a “what if” so that they could develop a cure before it happened.) Doing so leaves the means of production mostly intact and does not contaminate large swaths of land, so that when the remaining immune carriers emerge, they can be put to work for their “new” masters. After all, if large portions of the population are ill and dying, they won’t be able to destroy property and loot.

            • The best place to go is the place where nobody else is going.

              • I’m going there too…!

              • Nobody else is going to New York City. I wouldn’t go there either.

                You need to go to a place that has what you need. Like water, for instance. And access to trees that you can cut down for firewood. And soil where you can grow potatoes, sweet potatoes, or corn. I’d consider those to be the most important food crops.

                • Beans and tomatoes too. 🙂

                • Lets Talk about the worst places to be when SHTF. Any major City or in a High Rise Building. Mass population centers will breed disease and exhaust resources. An EMP in a Major City will be disastrous. With no electronics or pumps to maintain water pressure, Fire sprinkler system in High rise buildings will no longer put any fires out, causing massive buildings to burn and crumble on one another. It will be a massive charred pile of rubble. As the masses pour out of the Cities, the hoards of unprepared refugees will be looting for food and water, and any Suburbs will soon be consumed, the horror will spread like wild fire and it will be every man woman and child for themselves. So for any Prepping Plan for Strategic location will be 300 Miles away from Major Cities, where winter temperatures are mild, where there is fresh water and resources. Those not already in a safe bugout location will need to plan to acquire several pairs of good hiking boots and tennis shoes. A tent or temporary shelter, such as several tarps, A small pull cart or wagons, with wheels to haul your preps, and weapons to protect yourself and your preps. It will be horror beyond imagination as humans rob, beat and feed on each other to survive.

                  • Agreed. But what you fail to take into consideration is 99% of ” preppers” will also die within 1 year of shtf. What good will your water filters be if all the streams and lakes are poisoned by all out nuclear war? Where you gonna ” bug out” and wait out the fallout for the earth to be safe to walk again? Are you going to be a mole and live underground as long as possible? This is just 1 scenario , there are many others where survival will be dubious at best,and you may live to find that the living will indeed envy the dead.

                  • Disagree about mild climate.
                    Real easy to stay warm in a prepared retreat. I do it every damn cold winter here. Refugees on the other hand would not be able to travel either cross country or over snow choked roads. A couple of subzero nights and you’ll have no company till Spring.

              • Tasmania…

                • Yup. Also Kangaroo Island, Norfolk Island and possible the SW corner of Western Australia and the SW corner of the south Island of New Zealand.

                • I read the first few paragraphs.
                  Didn’t bother with the rest.

              • Ugly:

                Seems from some of the non-believers posts on the dinosaur subject that place might be “Heaven”.

                • West Virginia?

                  Oh wait, that’s almost heaven….

          • I spent a week visiting my aunt in Payson several decades ago. I really liked it. 5,000 ft above sea level, so not too hot. Not more than a degree or two hotter in summer than here in Wyoming, but quite a bit warmer in winter.

            But now I see it has grown quite a bit, and I don’t see any water. Your opinion can change from when you are a 20-something just enjoying the scenery to when you are 70 and worried about SHTF.

            I think it is too close to population centers for me.

            • No doubt Arizona is a beautiful place. I visited there for a month one time. I remember the beautiful, crystal-clear mornings more than anything.
              But crystal-clear mornings are due to a lack of moisture in the air.

              I also remember the beautifully landscaped yards. In place of grass, people would use patterns of colored stone.
              But that’s because there wasn’t enough water for grass.

              I feel terrible for the people of California right now. But much of the state is a desert after all. Deserts are dry and extended drought should have been planned for.
              Seven states – 30,000,000 people – and part of Mexico are living off one river.

              I’ll stay in the southeast, thank you very much. We had a few years of drought here recently, but then our normal rainfall resumed.

              No climate change here.

          • No water access on your property should be a 100% no go. Depending on a water delivery service in a collapse situation is doomed to failure and wishful thinking at best.

            You need a well, spring or creek and a way to pump it; by gravity, by hand, with solar or wind.

            • Lots of wells, with springs and/or creeks passing through property in Payson as it is below the top of the Rim and catches the run off from the cliffs. Good hunting for deer and elk. These animals need water and forage so its there if they are.

              They are. 🙂

              • Better be there in the first few weeks of a total SHTF deal and get busy killing processing/drying, all the deer/elk one can possibly handle because when the hoards, more like millions of folks out of California come stampeding across the deserts, it’s “game over” for the wild game.

                I would wager that anyone would be hardpressd to find one track after the first six months, much less ‘see’ a furry animal.

                Killing of large animals would be the first agenda on any persons list, after locating a viable water source.
                Beef cattle ranchers will have to keep a small army posted around their livestock, day and night.

                Speaking of Arizona, and I mean the whole state, where are most people likely to run to if California starts crumbling off/earthquakes, into the Pacific on an incremental scale?
                Arizona, because it is the closest to southern Calif.

                Next would be Nevada and Utah.

                The San Andreas isn’t the only fault line running North and South in California. It might just be the biggest that triggers the others that go all the way to the Sierra Nevada Mtns.

                Folks running scared aren’t gonna just stop and look back over their shoulder as if thsy will have a place to return to. Well some idiots may, but most will keep running out of harms way until thy get somewhere where they feel safe. Look out Flagstaff, here they come.

                Hoards, camped out at every watering hole in the state isn’t my idea of a BOL.

          • Pump and Dump Land with No Water. And why are the original Preppers all selling out? Is the well going dry already or too pricey?

            • clue: What “original preppers”?

              I have and have read Skousen’s book, and honestly? It has some good points, but is woefully incomplete, and I question a lot of his decisions and choices for some locations.

              I think he bases a lot of his locations off of generally available statistics, and little else. For instance, this alleged garden spot near Phoenix… did he even take water rights into account? Sure, you can move into a place with none and assume you can just commando-in a well after there is no rule of law to stop you… But, there’s a vast difference between drilling a well pre-collapse and having to dig one post-collapse (assuming there’s even water available to drill for — something else you’d have to know for certain, as your life would depend on that tidbit of knowledge.)

              Oh, and yeah – if there’s a flood of thirsty refugees coming in out of Phoenix, you think they’re gonna stop at just the town square? Heh – I got a bridge to sell you if you think that’s true.

          • First post disappeared so sorry if this double posts….

            AZ….terrible place!!!! Scorpions, centipedes, Mohave green snakes, Western Diamondbacks big around as coke cans, tarantulas, tarantula hawks/wasps (google bite from that), camel spiders/wind scorpions (google that), Hunta Virus, Valley Fever in soil, crazy wind, haboobs, jumping cactus, poisonous plants, coyotes and bats with rabies, crazy alkali soil, high temp 127 F last year, sun/heat stroke, sun/heat ruins/destroys/disintegrates everything…..TERRIBLE IDEA….


            • Where in AZ do you live PK? Sounds like Bullhead City! 🙂

              • DK: No, not Bullhead….shushshhshshshs…..close though….

                PKLL 🙂

                • And at least three different kinds of fire ants and africanized bees…..

                  AZ is a bad place….


                  • Don’t forget the 60,000 lightening strikes that hit the Arizona desert every year, packing an average of 50 million volts each.

                    Its a great place to live!!! 🙂

                • I can vouch for Bullhead City – it’s a damn furnace, as is the Phoenix metro area.

                  (Great place to have a party, though…)

            • Yes yes yes we have all that and more,so plz stay away. Those of us who have lived here all our lives can deal with such “dangers”.
              oh and 127 degrees? Only in Bullhead…

              • Anony: “127 F only in Bullhead”…not so…at my house by the bridge for two days….of course that day my air conditioner broke….miserable….


          • A Native American who has family on a Reservation out there says there is no water. And tribes men have take the beds off their pickup trucks and mounted large water tanks. He says they have to drive over 30 miles away to load the truck up and drive back to the reservation. The Indians got screwed with their Strategic Reservation without any water. I would not want to depend on sharing the little water that there is, with the Millions of others sucking off the same well. Also the hoards of illegals traipsing all over the property stealing your livestock or breaking into your house to steal your preps. I would call this very Unstrategic. But hey there are gullible people out there.

            • The illegals will be gone, once they’ve looted everything they can carry back to Mehiko.

              • Wouldn’t be so sure about that… some of the more radical La Raza types may just decide to hang around and impose a new world order of their very own…

          • Ref: Gods Creation…

            Add this one to my “Goofiest” post list !!!

            I am in total agreement with you….just about all he talks about….well at least 5/4 of what he recommends are not locales where I would even think about heading out to….If they were that great why in the hell would anyone be leaving from there !!!

            My Favorite is the 147,000 sq ft Nuke bunker….the last stopping off point for any ICBM’s headed from the North Pole area….Hell, I didn’t know the North Pole had ICBM’s !!! And to top it off it is located in “Confidental ” North Dakota….Guess they will not tell you where it is….just pony up the 1,500,000.00 dollars and its yours….I guess they would just blind fold you….fly you in …drop you off….Then how in the hell are you supposed to know where you are !!!!

            Think I will stay here….This Whole World is getting more Nutz by the second !!!

            Now back to your regularly scheduled program…I mean “Agenda ”

            PS….Is it just me…or does this whole country seem to be getting goofier by the second !!!

            • Amen 3, makes one wonder, but I have been prepping since ’96, my BOL is set up and ready to go… But if we get nuked by us or them, all bets are off, I guess we all will be glowing soon if that happens…
              Just facing reality everyone, I really enjoyed the last artice, we were mostly all civil, and the religous thoughts were interesting…
              Keep an open mind in such, especially with prepping.
              Since we are all in this game together..
              And thank MAC for having a place to vent and trade views, opinions and jokes….

          • Most of the American west will revert to desert. The population density will adjust to conditions. Arizona was sparsely populated until recently.

            The leftists are going apeshit over the 80y.o. who shot the female robber in Cali. What prosecuter wants to try THAT case? What are they going to do upon conviction anyway? Give him life (or 6 months, whichever comes first) in a maximum security nursing home?

            The idiots in Baston are going crazy over the illegals being foisted upon them by Deval. Wait!!! I didn’t mean they were welcome in MY neighborhood!!!

            • I’m a “leftist”, Hugh, and I can assure you I am not upset about the old man shooting that woman! furthermore, my brother is also a leftist and believes as I do, concerning our constitutional rights– esp the 2nd. So stop categorizing people! (Now, I’m not a democrat or republican, just an American who hates what the gov/corporations are doing to our Mother Earth). I don’t believe in government, period! They all suck and I can hardly wait until they disappear like the dinosaurs!

          • Importing water to places like Phoenix is what has gotten those same places to where they are today. I suspect the author has a finiancial interest in the recommended areas.

            • Water runs downhill. Some of the water “imported” into Phoenix comes from the Colorado River yes, but otherwise it would be claimed by Kalifornia or flow into Mexico. Actually Arizona hasn’t been taking its full allotment for some time.

              A lot of water comes from the highlands where the Verde, Aqua Fria, Hassayampa, Salt, and Gila Rivers originate. They all flow into the Valley and while they cannot support 18 million Kalifornians, they could support Arizona if some homeowners would get rid of their grass, and the inhabitants here quit wasting water.

              Problem is most of these people migrate from the East and think that water will always be there. Once they start paying for the true cost of water, they will get a new perspective. 🙂

              • BTW: It takes 55 gallons of water per year, to water every square foot of grass you have. That does not include bushes and trees.

                While looking at McMansions online I found one in Arizona that pays more for water every year then it does for taxes and taxes are over 10K!!! 🙁

          • Ridiculous article. WTF is going to drop everything and relocate to an arid or drought-ridden area and haul water? I wouldnt take this guys advice any more than Id listen to some market analyst on what stocks are hot.
            Looks like everyy weekend were going to get some dumbass real estate sales pitch now.

        • I agree Graf: I tell people all the time that the safest place, if the SHTF, might be your own house. You already have family and community support. Too uproot is indeed risky. And to uproot from the northeast and travel all the way to the American Redoubt (which I find overrated) could be a death sentence. Having said that, I would love to get relocation feedback from the users of this site. I live in NJ, but we have been thinking about buying land in Kentucky. South of Lexington. It seems like it’s cheaper the more south and east you go in KY. Then after a few years we would build, then move in just before retirement. Is anybody here familiar with this region. Joel Skousen praises eastern KY and TN because of its proximity to the Appalachians, which will keep all the northeastern zombies on the seaboard. I’ll throw some counties at you: Jessamine, Garrard, Madison and Lincoln. thanks for any feedback.

          • j. veritas, you could do far worse than Tennessee or Kentucky. Southeastern Kentucky has the Daniel Boone National Forest and Tennessee has the Smoky Mountain National Forest.

            Look at Cumberland County, KY and Carter County, TN.
            Hope to see you here.

            P.S. Don’t go there and say, “Appa-LAY-sha”. You’d be laughed at. It’s “Appa-LATCH-a.

            • Grafique, I’m going to family in north GA at the southern end of “Appalatcha” when the time comes. I’ve been there numerous times before, know the area, and what to expect. My relatives grew up in the prepper lifestyle and taught me what I already know about prepping.

              • I’m hoping we don’t see an article about bugging out to the southeast. Since the War of Northern Aggression, the southeast has been the butt of the nation’s jokes. We don’t need them suddenly moving here like they’ve loved us all along.

                Y’all hear?

                • Grafique, you ain’t just whistling Dixie about that one. We’ve got enough of them here as it is; don’t need more of them unless they’re good people like Sgt. Dale. be glad to have someone like him. He’s not really a Yankee in my view.

                  • Bh, joke for ya. What is the difference between a northern Yankee and a southern redneck?????? 1000 miles….

                • gRAF AND RENENGADE-
                  You folks been studying at Obamas school of divisive techniques ?
                  Your comments are a page right outta his playbook.
                  Be careful with that .

                  • You obviously don’t live in the south. If you’d grown up with the rest of the country looking down heir noses at you, you’d understand.

                    No hard feelings.

                  • hammerhead, too many people in the northern states have been fed a steady stream of propaganda about the south since Lincoln’s time. this has nothing to do with Obama.

                  • Eppe, we could only wish.

                • I am from the southeast and you should not worry about people from the southeast over running the north.In your view we are not very smart but we are smarter than that.

                  • We may have been born at night, just not last night…..

            • Don’t be talking about God’s country…no one needs to know!!

            • Grafique,

              Well said! I agree.

              We also have a climate that allows two growing seasons for most crops and ample rainfall.

              Keep praying and prepping!
              KY Mom

            • Thanks for info Graf, those counties are now on my list, and thanks for advice. We do say Appa lay -sha. We say a lot of things wrong. Liberal schools.

          • J.V.
            I’m hoping to get to the area my wife and I have been looking at before TSHTF in Tenn. About 100+ miles from Nashville to the south and east. We know the area and there is plenty of water, game, family, and friends.

            I agree if the east coast zombies make it over the mountains they will be very weak, or very tuff to have survived the trek. They won’t have the firepower that we will have and they won’t have a lot of food. I pray I will never have to go up against zombies after TSHTF. I don’t want to have to hurt anyone.

            Good luck in your search.


            • Thanks for input Sgt. Dale. Took the family to Nashville in 2011 and we almost didn’t leave. Great people there. I will look south and east from and slightly northeast to KY. thanks again.

          • Tenn and Ky has the New Madrid Fault. WY – Yellowstone, Anything out west is a gamble with forest fires and no water. Anything up north and you could freeze in the winter. Anywhere in the North East, NY, Conn, Washington DC all death traps and targets for Terrorists. All I see in the U.S. as anything Strategic is South East such as AL, MS,GA, SC or Florida, mild winter temps and all the water and wildlife and fishing you can bag. FL is 3 sides ocean fishing, lakes, streams and sexy bikinis. I went trail biking out in the woods, plenty of ripped up Wild hog signs and water every where. Yes it is Summer here, hot and humid and skeeters, but has all the resources I could ever use for a great bug out LOC.

            • Ref: WhoWuddaThunkit….

              Do not listen to this man..He has Dain Bramage….All those places he listed as bad are really wonderful…fun filled locales….Go there……

              The Southeast is no where you want to go/come to….it’s horrible here…sorry..I meant there….

              I know …I have lived here most of my 63 years…

              I am through being sarcastic now ….

              They Say ” God Lives in Colorado “….He just might……..but He has got a Summer Home in the Southeast !!!

              • @3rd Down – No doubt there are a lot of great places out west, such as Snow Ski Resorts like Lake Tahoe. I’ve been to most of them, and vacationed the summer in Vail one year, But when half of LA all has plans to go to say Lake Tahoe to bug out when SHTF, cause they saw some great view in the mountain while skiing. Its gonna be a mess, then put some nut job who has no woodman skills, burns the forest down from a camp fire everybody is screwed. And there sure isn’t going to be anybody putting the fire out. They will have to wait for winter or the spring rains.

            • FL is just a huge sandbar in the ocean.

              • @Hugh – You are mostly right. From Orlando – Central FL down to the FL Keys, the land mass is a sand bar, about less than 30 Ft in elevation. When you go North of Orlando in the center of the State it reaches 100 Ft up to 345 Ft / 115 Yards in elevation. Over the last 5 million years Florida has been under water like 3 times. If you dig into the ground in FL, you quickly find a lot of million year old, oyster, clam and sea shells. Natives used to pile up these sea shells near the rivers to camp on for high ground. And you can find these all over Florida, which again will make a good bug out location. I have kayaked up rivers, and explored the banks and found these Indian mounds, and chard’s of Flint, that have been broken with a tool. The Gulf side of Florida is a safe zone with no worry about earth quakes or tsunamis. Not saying there may be a rise in ocean waters. If that happens the salt water will back fill up into rivers and lakes and destroy the ecosystem and drinking water supply. I live a block from the Gulf Inter coastal, and looked at my elevation survey the other day, for my property. My base floor slab is only 8.1 Ft Above MSL – Means Sea Level. YIKES!! Although I have never been flooded in 13 yrs, No doubt that is my weak point of my prepping plan. However, I am looking to sell and move up to N. Central FL in higher elevation hopefully this year. There is a house being built right now next to mine for $460K, so people still have confidence in the area. As soon as it is close to being finished, my house goes on the market and I will move. We are all just doing the best we can. But I do know my weak points right now in my Prepping plan and working on it. And also why I would plan to bug out in a SHTF situation. I’ll take my chances being mobile moving stealthy. And I don’t have the money to just go buy another BOL property until this property sells. People need to be honest and identify their greatest prepping weakness, then work on it.

                • Hey there. I live in central north florida and we have a group that meets once a month if you are interested. We were living in Tampa and moved away from the big cities as far as we could get. My email address is vervclan at hotmail dot com.


              • Who doesn’t like living on the beach? Its all real and alive.

            • WWTI, I’ll make my stand and die right here in the south. The only thing Skousen got right was about TN and KY. He’s full of do-do about everywhere else.

          • Some east TN counties: Unicoi , Johnson, Campbell, Claiborne, Hawkins, Hancock, Blount( away from Maryville), McMinn, just to name a few…

          • I would..if I was living in the area..consider Salem S.C.

          • j.veritas; I’m in NJ too, southern portion. KY and TN are good states, I’m looking more towards PA though. I find that the hatred of the “yankee” is a huge issue. Which I find funny and hard to comprehend. Obviously it has its roots from the civil war, etc, but it gets a little ridiculous.

            I have relatives in Alabama, went down there a few years ago for a visit. Half the people we met were great. Friendly, kind, and down to earth. The other half acted like I just spit on their shoe.

            No one I know of would act that way towards someone from the south if they visited my state.

            Hey I’m sorry if the northern states fucked your southern states back in the day. Shit happens. Its like black people who blame all of their current problems on slavery. It was long time ago, lets move on.

        • Especially when that place is very hot and very dry, grafi.

        • there will be no place for most to run to or hide when the shtf, I keep hearing about how Russian troops are here and ready to fire on americans, I keep hearing about some of our own military willing to fire on americans, I have heard military men talk about groups like blackwaters as they are nothing but hired killers willing to kill americans or anyone for the love of money and killing, a certain percentage of cops seem to hate americans and are willing to kill also, and never forget all the drug and crime gangs and the criminals that have been allowed to take over the country. Those who have taken power by force will kill you to hold on to that power, its seems like we live in a world of psychopaths now, the world is insane, this civilization appears to need a reset, what is going on today should be sickening to any sane person. Humanity is on its way down and out. The religious fanatics, newagers and liberals have lied to you none of that crap they have taught the world is going to happen, you live in a world that is becoming darker and more evil every day, if there is a god, then let it pull the plug on this insanity, and I doubt the next civilization will be any different, just like the ones that existed before us.

          • Darkness comes before the dawn, 2 dogs. Remember in the Bible, when the storms came and rocked the boats and everyone was frightened and Jesus said, “oh yea of little faith!”

            I know you don’t believe in the Bible and I can understand that as it is full of contradictions. (Bible thumpers say God is Love and in the next breath, they say he will burn you forever and forever unless you repent! We are made in His image and are supposed to follow His example, but is it really a good idea (or compassionate and Loving) to throw your kids in a burning lake of fire because they didn’t learn the lessons they were supposed to learn?!) So I can empathise with your disdain of religions to a certain degree. However, God is not a book. He is real and He is your Creator and when SHTF, He will be your salvation (help you!) if you reach out for Him… basically, get to know Him, because He DOES love you, regardless how it seems. Please read about NDE…that will be a start…

            • REGARDLESS of what the Bible thumpers say, God is Love. God is Truth. He is not a book.

            • I remember watching Donald Duck when the rains came. lol Anybody who bases their future on the Babble is a fool. You will be some of the first to die. You Babble Thumpers will soon realize Darwin of the strongest and fittest survives the weak and gullible. If you want to know anything about weather, try the book of the Farmers Almanac or NOAA Website. Great daily tide charts that are right on.

          • I don’t think the Russians are here! they hate us! We are over there, destroying the Ukraine and starting WW3 with them. (read Paul Craig Roberts website).

            Furthermore, yes thing do look dark and scary. However, things usually do get worse before getting better… a good video is “blue and red katchina..oops! forgot name! will get bakc with ya!

        • LOVELY! I was thinking of running for the mountains of NC (Ebola getting scarier all the time!)… then I find out an American doctor tested postive for Ebola. And she is from NC!!

          • crap! at zero hedge, they are saying the doctor in Africa who recently came down with Ebola (and happens to be an American!) had his wife and 2 kids living with him there in Africa… and they have come back to the US!! (I believe live in NC)… so stressed can hardly sleep anymore… Ebola is spreading and US and Israel are starting WW3… ;(


          16 min – Jun 13, 2013 – Uploaded by BruineDwerg2012

          Blue Kachina and Red Kachina update 2013 BruineDwerg2012 NUMEROLOGY enter your …

          THE HOPI PROPHECY OF THE COMING 5th age & Blue & Red Star …

          9 min – Oct 23, 2012 – Uploaded by Bernardo Antonacci

          YouTube home …. It will come when the Saquasohuh (Blue Star) Kachina dances in the …

          • NOT THE FIRST VIDEO! Just meant to copy the second one, called “THE HOPI PROPHECY OF THE COMING 5th age & blue & Red Star…”

            (The first video sucks! don’t go there!)

        • No doubt. Not to mention if you don’t know the area like the back of your hand and neighbors you will be at a severe disadvantage. A good plan today is better than a great plan tomorrow. Off topic but people please, please take care of your bodies. I am going through terrible times with my back. If shit were to hit the fan now I’d be fucked. At 32 I’m having a hard time getting around. It’s not that I’m overweight, but I’ve lifted wrong for so long I’ve fucked up some discs. The greatest wealth IS health. Take care all.

          • N. Rockwell: Google Kratum (NaturalNews(dot)com)….it is still legal for now….all natural and God’s pain reliever….


      2. Woodlands for me. Water ,shelter ,wildlife.

        • Amen.

      3. With the water situation I would be very reluctant to move to an area of drought.

      4. Moving to a retreat in the middle of the desert or for that matter just about anywhere when TSHTF is dumb. If you have not lived there for any amount of time, while leaving almost all your belongings in your primary residence is just asking for disaster. People that get up and move to a distant local, abandoning their belongings and livelihoods are called refugees. Watch the news any given day and see just how kindly these are tolerated by locals, and how horrendous their treatment is at the hands of just about anyone with a gun or food.

        Fantasies of running to the wilderness are just that; fantasies. Someone running from the urban wilderness of SoCal in their compact SUV with wife and two kids, dogs, and luggage jammed into every remaining space and strapped to the roof is going to be an incredibly easy mark for the first armed checkpoint set up by locals specifically to relieve outsiders of their equipment, food, and fuel. Of course, the first mistake was living in the shithole that is the entire SoCal megalopolis.

        • Moon, I have to agree. Considering the water situation in the western states and the possibility of being overrun by Mexicans in the near future, I would rule out Arizona or anywhere in the West. I have an arrangement to go to a cousin’s BOL in north GA when the time is right. I have many family members in that region who grew up in the prepper lifestyle. Plenty of wilderness, water, game, etc. The Appalachians have always been feasible for survival and the winters aren’t as bad as in Skousen’s beloved American Redoubt. I can get there on a tank of gas from where I live plus I have extra gas in storage.

          • Sorry folks I disagree about Northern AZ and the lack of water. We’ve got land near Williams with forest, running water from a nearby creek, plenty of snow in the winter. plenty of deer and elk, elevated grounds and some good gold panning. There are plenty of spots available if you do your homework and begin prepping yesterday. Visit off the beaten paths.

            • Joey: Respectfully…..UTSHAY UPYAY….


              • LoL!

          • me too, Renegade.. maybe I’ll see you there!

        • Typical heinlein reader – Smart.

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      7. If TSHTF were I can’t move I will stay right here I know my area and how to defend it. The group has a great place so why just pack up and move to a location you don’t know?
        I have 2nd. BOL I hope I never have to use them, but if I do they are ready. Both have areas to plant, hunt, and water.

        • No wonder it went to moderation!
          I’m having one of those days. I spelled my name wrong, SCREW IT I’M GOING TO BED EARLY. ENOUGH IS ENOUGH!!!

          • Sarge, don’t throw in the towel just because you misspelled your own name. That’s not like you.

            • Ulgy….


              I’m done.

          • Sgt: Comes’ with age! LOL

            River Rat at the ready!!! NOMI///MPLON LABE!

            What is your take on a Judge for a bedroom gun?

          • 🙂

            • RGB RR WRONG
              I’m not throwing in the towel.
              I’m just having one of those days.
              Got to work this morning at 0600hrs and found out the guy that was working 3-11 wasn’t coming in so I have to work a 12hr. shift. I was told that they called 7 of the other tart timers and they all said no I don’t want to work. So I got stuck because I feel the full timers after putting in anywhere from 40 to 60 a week already, The don’t need to be forced back to work they need time with their families.
              I’m only 60, today I feel like I’m 160! Most of the time I feel like I’m 40.
              Thanks Guys for the encouragement!!!!!

              • Sgt.
                Get use to that stuff. More and more working folks, working. More and more free-loaders, not. The worker will have to pay and work a lot more for just financial survival. The game is no longer for those that are honest, pay their bills, pay their taxes, and live life conservatively….

                • Ugly, I’ve got the same problem where I work, so I know exactly where you’re coming from. the good people we have are having to work more because the POS scum we have don’t want to get off their dead asses and do squat, so most likely they’ll eventually become freeloaders on the public dole. More scum for our tax dollars to support. The system will collapse eventually and when it does, LOOK OUT!

              • Sarge, for the past month I’ve been having more days like that and that’s why I haven’t been here as much, all because of goldbricks that don’t want to do squat. Next weekend I’m headed to GA with more supplies for the BOL. I can hardly wait. Any time I can get away from the goldbricks I make the most of it.

                • Brave & Sgt.
                  The desire to succeed has left me. I see that I am chasing a rainbow now–there is no end to it. Thus, I am adjusting stuff such as taking out funds and putting them into my business. This fall, no more mutual funds. All monies goes into business account, and supplies of course. I am no longer going to put 80 hour weeks for someone else. There will be a new Ugly. I am going to stop and smell the roses from now on….

                  • I do have a desire to succeed. It just doesn’t involve making eight while working for someone else’s benefit. I make some money when I feel like it, doing things I would be doing anyway. My success is not taking orders from anyone and not having to be somewhere on a time clock. It will soon be 10 years since I walked out on the time clock life. I haven’t starved yet. There’s no money in the bank unless I need to mail a check somewhere. And I have lots of good-smelling, old time roses in my yard.

      8. I don’t think it really matters. Forget about moving to the desert. ANYWHERE you go is no guarantee of survival. Moving out of the city before the shtf is one thing, but even if you do move to a “safer place” you’ll still need to find fresh water, have an adequate food supply, medical necessities, and then there’s dealing with those who haven’t prepared, as well as NWO goons who want you dead. And lastly, if you do move to a new area, that in of itself is a task because your not familar with that area. It might be a good idea to stay where you know your surroundings.

      9. I lived in the Phoenix area for 20 years and all I can say is: Arizona is a bad choice all around. The southernmost 100 miles is overrun with Mexican drug cartels. The western 100 miles (besides being grotesquely ugly and hot) is only four hour’s drive from Los Angeles. The northeast 1/4 of the state is Indian reservation. This doesn’t leave much. The easternmost 50 miles or so might be alright if you stay off of the main roads and you have a year-round spring for water. You have to be a solid four hours’ drive out of Phoenix, and at least 5,000′ above sea level to stand a chance of surviving the coming melt down.

        • plus dk is there

        • Soon. I have this feeling that no place will be safe. Safety is the area with your most knowledge.

          • I completely agree. NO PLACE on Earth is “safe”, to think so is complete folly.
            I do believe that with appropriate planning and preparation we CAN be “safer” where we are currently located and currently have a support network. To expend precious funds to “move someplace safe” is not a defensible nor viable “plan” for any type of BOL.
            I am a northern California native, we raised our family in SoCal and moved out of California 8 years ago and have not looked back. Do I love Northern California, (north of Sacramento)? Absolutely, however the current political climate of mindless DemoProgMarxist drones that seem to “think” government will take care of them and feel entitled to that belief were the main reason we left. These are the same sheeple that keep electing the political pimps/whores to represent their constant taxation of the electorate, and the denigrating of rights for the DemoProgMarxist mantra that currently infects a large portion of California. No place on Earth is “safe”, no place, nor will it be until He comes again.

            • I was born in Orange California in 1961. I was told in those days there were actually oranges. I went to California about 10 years ago. I have no desire to ever go back….

            • While I can understand your sentiments, and agree that relocation is really part of a life-changing event, I think it critical to grasp the fact that if TS really HTF on a large scale, there will be NO “safe” big cities. For that matter, most “cities” of any size will last not more than a few weeks before total breakdown.
              You can probably prepare for a short term, local emergency in a single metro area, but I don’t think this forum is aimed at just the next hurricane. And yes, there is a big difference between living in a metro area with a few hundred thousand parasites and another hundred thousand of their enablers, and living in a small town or mostly rural area, where the bulk of the population is accustomed to earning their own way.
              This may sound cruel but baby, this ain’t Kansas anymore.

        • Mark: Yup….AZ is a bad idea…bad bad idea…


      10. Well I live off of the grid in northern Arizona, and I love it here! Near me there’s bear, elk, deer, antelope, javelina, and wild burros.
        I live 28 miles from the nearest town and store. I feel relatively and comparatively safe here.

        • RickE: shuuuhshhshhsshshshhshs…..


          • Sorry PK but RickE just blew it. Your first description would have scared off a Sidewinder, your description was so convincing that I think DK was even thinking about leaving along with half of the illeagal aliens. Trekker Out.

            • Dang…..all true though…


        • Exactly, those who will take a good look will find N AZ a good place. It’s nothing like Pumkinvie/Phx or the ish-stain Tucson and I lived in both till I came to my senses.

        • Got any good recipes for wild burros?

          • TPSnod: Wild burros will give you the chriwandbasoeibnabdfaa virus if you eat them….very sick and then your pancreas falls out. Best not to eat them or come to AZ.


      11. Well let me just tell everyone where I am going when the SHTF…better yet just look for the fire alert lights that I will mount all around the compound and listen for the tornado siren I am will mount on a post dead center next to the door that has the sign with the directions on how to get in. This is almost as bad as the NatGeo Preppers who show their stuff to the world. Info is supposed to be helpful…don’t cut your own throat.

      12. When the SHTF, where you are at (or at least no more than 25mi. from home) that moment is 98% were you will have to make your stand. If you’re not at your BOL now, get there in the next 30 to 60 days or forget it. Way too many fuses are burning and some are very, very close to the powder keg. If his Hind-ASS pulls an EO for the illegals it will hit (SHTF) very quickly thereafter. Stay or go is your choice, as for this house hold no brainer STAYING PUT, my home come hell or high water, live or die period! Friends the time gets closer with every tick of the clock. The stick-up I put on the sh-t- house door is not doing the job anymore.

        River Rat at the ready!!! NOMI///MOLON LABE! TSORIITA!!

      13. bug out to the desert?


        ummm isn’t arizona where they have actual signs warning folks to stay out of the desert because of the drug cartels drug mule highway trails crossing most of arizona.

        even the cops and feds are scared to go into the arizona desert.

        the entire south west corner of amerika is a death zone when the shtf.

        desert water sources or lack of it , will cause ordinary folks to fight and kill over it in the desert.

        get out of the desert.

        • Anony: Good comment….death zone….


      14. Well,will say it again,am not moving,done being pushed around,have a relative(me dad)who is much older and considering out of country.I though will not follow do not blame him,the country he worked hard for is dying quickly,he is not a soldier but would leave some value behind for those that can troop on.On a side note,while helping mum on island prep a little more went kayaking out on inner ocean waters,ended up with a few otters as company that made my day.So,will close with the old phrase,”Live for today,prepare for tomorrow”.Will say life with limited net though maybe a denial life is certainly relaxing,will be in the daily chaos again soon enuff,have a good weekend all!

        • Brazil? go out in the bush and you deal with FARC. No thanks.

      15. I would go there. But my complaint is that it is too damn close to Phoenix and Southern California….

        • @Ugly – Any where near the Mexican border, say 300+ miles will be invaded by illegals when Obama declares “Tear Down That WALL!! And at this pace, very soon.

      16. I’ll hunker down here in the Shenandoah Valley,community very defensible, plenty of water and friends.

        • We vacationed at Massanutten a few years ago. Some of the mot beautiful country I’ve ever seen.

        • Stonewall was quite fond of defending it, Jim. Might want to read how he was able to defeat three different Yankee armies in it.

          • Southron;He had Jedediah Hotchkiss(map maker). stonewall knew where every nook and cranny was in the mountains whereas the Feds didn,t.Plus he was a genius at tactics. If he had been around at Gettysburg things would be mighty different.

            • Yes, the maps were very important. I suggest you know where every nook and cranny (especially nook) are. You’ll be needing them.

      17. I’ve been through Arizona on Interstate 40 east and west. It’s a beautiful part of the country for a flatland southern dweller such as myself. The living expense is out of my league. How about Colorado and places more remote there, away from the maddening crowds? Is that feasible on a low fixed income? I’m probably 50 years too late to find such a place there. I would like the availability of legal cannabis also. Any suggestions for small towns in Colorado or adverse opinions in moving there?

      18. Be there to get there. One who believes they will simply shoot up the 17 over the hill to high country when it’s time will be caught in a bad situation. If you’re in the valley and plan to BO north, you better have a plan to proceed on foot, and be ready for an epic, backwoods, uphill adventure.
        Sedona is bad because the 89 but Flag is good because it’s a major crossroad hub?
        Cottonwood is okay but Cornville would be better. I have paddled nearly all sections of the Verde all the way down to Scottsdale. The Indians of tuzigoot (sp?) Managed to irrigate and farm for a lengthy time and their castle ruins still stand.
        Williams and Ash Fork are promising, but go further north to the Kaibab plateau and I think you’re in the best AZ zone, unless you can get down into the canyon.

        • AZ Climber: Agree with all you say but if you have 4WD there are at least six ways out of the Valley if you know the way. I have taken every way, but I have no intention of fighting the traffic out of the city in the first place. Join a Jeep club where you live, or start one, folks.

          Be there to get there is applicable everywhere. 🙂

          • DK… I had the privelage to haul granite out of the mountain quarries surrounding all sides of the valley while I put myself through night school from 03-08. There are countless tracks into and out of the valley. Not sure where most of em end up though. I know a few good off road routes from the valley into Wickenburg / Prescott, and one or two northward treks off the carefree. Jeeps are good. Jeep clubs are better. Agreed.

        • I found the perfect Bugout Location. 25 Mi out of town, Go down the twisty road, and over 3 hills, take a right at the white farm house with the red barn and 2 blue silos. Then 3 miles till you see the 3 big hay bales on the left. You are getting close. The 2nd left after the little bridge, you will see a chain across the sandy dirt road marked by heavy woods. 1/2 mile till you see a spork and a canteen hanging in a tree, go right till you see the big rock. walk the path 1/4 mile. My Little cabin is by the lake. Don’t tell anybody OK?

          • Is it….

            N39.237265. W102.123894 ?

          • WWTI your lying, that’s the directions to the Dutchman’s Gold Mine. Trekker Out. Semper Paratus!

          • Hey, I know where that is…

            I used to hide my moonshine in the second bale for pickup.

      19. Mountains of western north Carolina for me. I know the area and feel more comfortable here. Milder weather and abundant resources are a plus. Plenty of water and great places to lay low.

        • Western NC and Eastern TN have another advantage – lots of TVA hydro power.

          Good choice.

      20. I seriously doubt we will ever find out what really happened
        to many people have too much to lose

        MH17 Verdict: Real Evidence Points to US-Kiev Cover-up of Failed False Flag…38/38/Y/M.html

      21. I love my southern Louisiana and will likely hunker down when SHTF. My next choice would be northwestern NC and eastern TN. I spent time in those hills, hunting, fishing and camping. But, compared to southern LA, the winters could get harsh.

        • Yeah, it gets pretty cold in those hills. A few years ago I was hiking/camping around Fontana in January. Woke up one morning to 6 degrees. That’ll make you get up and build a fire in a hurry!

          • Lol! Doesn’t surprise me a bit! Last year hubby and I were visiting the dam, and the temps dropped almost 25 degrees in an hour! We went from pleasant spring weather, to freezing our butts off! Now we are prepared better…

      22. Why is it that everyone’s fantasy of their ideal BOL needs a convincing argument.

        We have farmland and forests. You can drill or dig a well anywhere and hit water. Fish and wildlife everywhere. We aren’t climbing mountains or traversing the desert to get there. Can grow just about anything except citrus. If you own a greenhouse here even Kula would be jealous! Winter that is cold enough to keep all the bad bugs, reptiles, and illegals away. Easy to get far enough away from the masses of sheeples. I think you get the picture..

        You think it’s warm and dry now in the south and west, wait till the polar shift or more natural warming of this planet occurs. Then maybe the sales pitch will change.

        We’ve got space for a few hardy individualists, if you dare.
        molon labe

      23. Arizona would be a terrible place to bug out to. It’s way too hot. There’s way too little water to grow crops.

        I still say that there are much better places to live east of the Mississippi than west. You’re much more likely to be able to grow crops without irrigation in the east than the west. You just have to keep your distance from big cities.

        • Barncat, the Appalachians have always been very feasible for survival. all my relatives in north GA live off-grid with solar and wind power systems, have their own gardens, wells, etc. Plenty of wilderness, game, fish, etc. and far enough from cities to be relatively safe.

          • Basic Rule Number One: Be where people farmed successfully before 1900. Arizona ain’t it.

            Basic Rule Number Two: Be within two day’s walk of a navigable river. Unless you want to spend the rest of your days like that family in Russia, staying awake all night to protect your ONE remaining stalk of grain, to have a prayer of getting seed so next year you might have TEN stalks of grain, trade and communication will be essential. That means rivers.

      24. Beverly Hills or Miami. After the first wave you will have unlimited gorgeous women to take as you please.



        • Eisen: When SHTF all the pharmacies will be out of viagra and depends….keep dreamin’


        • Acid, you’re sick.

        • Until you come up to my woman. It’s people like you that I will have to watch out for. You’ll never see it coming

        • Eisen you can run but you can’t hide……and changing your name doesn’t get it either.

      25. off topic
        but boy does this make me mad

        How The NSA Is Actively Helping Saudi Arabia To Crackdown On Dissent

        is there any corrupt dictatorship that we don’t support ?

        and whenever I hear some government stooge say “they hate us for our freedoms”
        I just wanna throw up

        NO,that’s not why you idiot

        you don’t have to be an amoral son of a bitch to be in the government,but it sure seems to help

        and don’t get me started on how we helped AlQaeda ,ISIS,Saddam Hussein and the Taliban for so years

        and what really gets me is that the American public
        when confronted with these facts
        just doesn’t care
        like I said
        we need a new word
        sheeple just ain’t cuttin’ it anymore

        • Fumducks????

          • Your joke for the day…

            President Obama walked into the Bank of America to cash a check. As he approached the cashier he said, “Good morning Ma’am, could you please cash this check for me?”
            “It would be my pleasure sir. Would you please show me you’re ID?”
            “Truthfully, I did not bring my ID with me as I didn’t think there was any need to. I am Barack Obama, the President of the United States of AMERICA!!!!”
            “Yes sir, I know who you are, but with all the regulations and monitoring of the banks because of impostors and forgers and requirements of the Dodd /Frank legislation, etc., I must insist on seeing your ID.
            “Just ask anyone here at the bank who I am and they will tell you. Everybody knows who I am.”
            “I am sorry Mr. President but these are the bank rules and I must follow them.”
            “I order you to cash this check!”
            “Look Mr. President, here is an example of what we can do. One day,Tiger Woods came into the bank without ID. To prove he was Tiger Woods he pulled out his putter and made a beautiful shot across the bank into a cup. With that shot we knew him to be Tiger Woods and cashed his check.
            Another time, Andre Agassi came in without ID. He pulled out his tennis racquet and made a fabulous shot whereas the tennis ball landed in my cup. With that shot we cashed his check.
            So, Mr. President, what can you do to prove that it is you, and only you, as the President of the United States?”
            Obama stands there thinking, and thinking, and finally says, “Honestly, I can’t think of a single thing. I don’t have a clue what to do.”
            “Will that be large or small bills, Mr. President?

            • Eppe, I spit out some fluid into my keyboard again. You’re the best. Keep them coming.

      26. southern middle tennessee
        still the place to be

        buried deep in the Tennessee countryside

        • Too many tornados…

          • Not that many. I would live there in a heartbeat. It’s what storm shelters are for.

      27. Live life to the fullest and best of your ability,
        The grass is not always really greener on the other side of the fence, sometimes its just perspective and attitude,

        • Kula, You are SO right!

          Many of of us do get bogged down with inertia and don’t make the moves we should have made a long time ago. As part of the prepping and planning process we should be evaluating our situation against realistic survivabilty in a worse case scenario. Over a thousand people died during Katrina here in our area because they thought they could hold out against the storm. We were all guilty of underestimating the full impact of the storm. I sent my wife and children off with just three days worth of clothes and supplies! The devastation and destruction the storm would leave in its path for over a one hundred mile area was beyond our imagination. Millions of people were left homeless and without power, water, food, and supplies. We had become refugees in our own country!

          That experience left us with less inertia in more ways than one when facing a hurricane but people are still not preparing for other scenarios like they should. How quickly we forget and turn back to our old and comfortable ways! For us it would be five months before we moved back home. We were the fortunate ones. I will always be grateful to the American people, our friends, and our families who extended moral support and both hands to help in this catastrophe. People who planned, prepped, and prayed were better off.

      28. I do not believe there will be any “safe” places for very long….most of us will be moving…much like the Native Americans moved their camps for weather and hunting benefits way back when. Learn how to live as a hunter/gatherer and you will survive….most of us will not. Too old to traverse very far, but young enough to help those who can…

        • You don’t know what you’re talking about.

          • Look who’s calling the kettle black Eisen.

        • You don’t know what you’re talking about.

          • Acid/Eisenturd, you’re the one who’s full of it.

            • @BH,

              yeah I can smell our guy behind his name…EISEN is still alive!.

              Get your meds Acid!.

        • Don’t worry FOB. I don’t think Stibnite and Cobalt are on the top 100 prepper registries yet. Your safe….

          • No One is “safe” except within God’s Protection….and therein lies the abject failure of these United States…
            thx Ugly….I understand…..

          • Ugly:

            It is near the top of my list……

      29. Unfortunately, Northern Arizona is going to run out of water.
        I live in southern Arizona, in a unique area with self-generating
        aquifer; a friend of mine was advised NOT to move to Northern
        Arizona as they will be the FIRST to run out of water,, by an
        hydrologist from University of Arizona. Beware of false info!
        Obviously no in-depth study of the area!

        • Hey Barb,

          Don’t want to be too nosy, but which aquifer is that? I am on the Gila aquifer, and my well has always had plenty of water in the last 26 years I have lived at my place.


        • Hi boondocksbarb…..shuuuuuuuushshhshshshshshshshs…..!!!!!!!!


          • PKLL I know you’ve made comments before that I didn’t like, but I just can’t remember what they were. Sure wish I could so I could follow you around and give you a red thumb like the person that’s on your ass now. Trekker Out.

            • MTrekker…not sure what offended you…it wasn’t intentional. My postings today are tongue in cheek….not trying to be ugly. Often meanings, intentions, snarkies and sarcasm get misunderstood in these posts.

              I learned that lesson early on here when I mistook what someone said and replied with anger. Now, I try to err on the side giving someone the benefit of the doubt.

              You have given me some great advice in the past…I thank you for that.


            • MTrekker: Not sure how I offended you, it wasn’t intentional.

              My posts today were meant to be snarky and silly, not ugly. Often things get misunderstood/misinterpreted here….I have learned the hard way that it’s always best to give people the benefit of the doubt when reading posts.

              You have given me some great advice in the past. I thank you for that.


              • Sorry PKLL you haven’t offended me, I was just being sarcastic. I just noticed that every comment you made regardless of what you said, someone was giving you a red thumb where it was uncallled for. seemed you had a angry follower. I hope you come back and read this, I had no intention of attacking you. Trekker Out.

                • MountainTrekker: Thanks for that….I was thinking/hoping that someone had hijacked your name like they do BH….. 🙂


                  • PKLL Glad you checked back, I’ve been looking everyday. Keep on commenting, I like your comments, sometimes I’am sarcastic and maybe not very good at. Trekker Out.

      30. Nowhere in the US would be safe if there were to be a nuclear conflict between the US and China as Joel believes. If you wish to avoid such a scenario, then leaving the US is your only option. Follow what the Nazis did: go to Latin America: it is the best option.

        There are many places in LA to bug out to and still live a good life. The women down there are also exceptional and would make life in the post-war environment very tolerable (something the Nazis also understood).

      31. Staying where I’m at, prob in the worst place being the east coast..but whatever, just good of a place as any imo. Would be nice to see more of the world though. To make it worst I’m between 2 forts, though their Nat guards and filled with mostly locals… that could maybe be a good thing.

      32. I heard that O and family will return to his birth place.

      33. I lived in the bay area of Ca for a few years. I went there to be with my husband. I’m originally from Alaska. I remember one day going down the free way with my husband in the afternoon and I turned to him and asked him what we would do if shtf out there. He was quiet for awhile, shrugged his shoulders and said we’d just hit the highway or head east out into the farm country. I told him that we would not be going anywhere, because we would be among thousands of people in gridlock traffic trying to do the exact same thing.

        That conversation is what landed us up north. Up here, I’m rural, I have more resources and I’m no where near hoards of people that are going to be losing their cool in a bad situation. I have a better chance on higher ground. My family has a chance. But, I’m also not so stupid and arrogant to think that we are untouchable. I guess what it all boils down to is, preparing as best as I can and putting it in God’s hands.

        I think Skousen is off about Az.

      34. Cemetery’s are a great place to bug out to , easy to dig in and plenty of stones for cover under fire,close to the city easy to move around without being seen .bury your goods in a freshly buried grave , it will have a marking for you to get back to.

        • DS, in that case we have the perfect place since we do not bury underground here but erect vast necropolises to place our dead. You might have to compete with those who practice Voodoo! (SMILE!)

        • its buried in the unmarked grave next to Arch Brown.

          • Archie Stanton….BLONDIEEE…you son of a …..

      35. The cave where great grandpaw hid his still Is my choice. theres plenty of water and it stays 58 degrees and if the revenuers with airplanes couldn’t find it. and they knew it existed. someone who don’t know it even exists surely cant find it. just have to worry about the kinfolks.

      36. READ AND HEED: This Four Star General – let me give you a little background about this guy. He is Air Force – he’s actually a real prominent individual within the Air Force. He’s a very elite individual, in the sense that he is one of the few who went from being a Major to a Four Star General within a span of four years. That’s how much of a hot shot this guy is. He is also in charge – or was in charge – of Asymmetrical Warfare. Okay, so they war gamed a lot of things – and if you do not know what asymmetrical warfare is, basically, it is fighting a war in an unconventional way, that it defeats the enemy without firing a shot. That’s asymmetrical warfare, but of course the reality is, shots are always fired.

        That being said, this gentleman was called upon because he was going to be the next in line for Joint Chiefs of Staff after Dempsey gets down, and he will be representing the United States Air Force. So they’ve approached him with a FISA contract – it is a contract that is bound for life. The stipulations on the contract are that he, as a commanding officer, should be able to fire and kill – and give the orders to kill – American citizens on American soil. This was something that was so out of the ordinary, so out of left field, that it absolutely shook this gentleman to the core. He would have no part in it, no part in it whatsoever. He in fact went on to say that he angered the people that were sitting around the conference room table – that he was escorted from Langley by two armed guards.

        Shortly thereafter, some weird things started occurring – one of which was, they started messing with him. Credit cards that he owned – some of which are companies that he’s had for over 20 years, like American Express per se – would all of a sudden be shut, out of the blue, from nowhere. These are just one of the signs that you know that they are messing with you. So the man is totally freaked out. He goes ahead and puts his house on the market – it’s up for sale right now as we speak. He has cleared what he needed out of his house. His wife is with him, his wife is on board with him, believes in the very things this man stands for and says. He’s only taken – they’ve only taken – their necessities. In other words, that house is for sale; their furniture is still in there. Their belongings – a great deal of their belongings – are still in there. He doesn’t want any – he just wants to get out. He wants to get out of the country, and that’s how he came into contact with one of my contacts, who happened to also work in the intelligence business in covert operations. And through him, he was able to get ahold of me, and this is not W but a totally different guy. This is a covert operational source.

        So the General described in detail – and what was given to me was this – and I had to take a notebook out, and I sat there listening, and I sat there listening very somberly, and the more information that he gave to me, the more somber I became, because it began to confirm to me many of the dates that my financial sources have told me, and it also began to corroborate with the dates that W’s intelligence sources have told him.

        So here it goes. This is important – this is probably the most important thing I will ever tell you. This is a life-altering event for me, speaking to this man. This is how serious the game is, and whether we are off by six months or what not is not the point. It’s the event – it’s the build-up to the events and how it happens – and to let all the folks know that we are, in fact, reading the tea leaves correctly.

        So what the General said was this. This whole illegals that are being dumped in the border – right now it is three hundred thousand, soon to be a million, coming across the border per month. And, folks, I’ve warned you of this in prior reports. This is a longstanding, ten-to-eleven year plan. This is part of a written timetable, and it follows the text.

        Number one, complete undermining of the United States Dollar by the end of 2015. Remember when I told you back in December of 2013 that April of 2014 will begin the push off point for the world to start moving away from the dollar? We’ve seen what happened in Ukraine – we’ve seen what happens globally – as the world shifts away from the dollar. We’re seeing this build-up, where nations are coming forward and saying, What is the point of even having the dollar? But members and readers and listeners to this website and followers – they all know this. You guys all know this – I am not going to rehash it – but a complete undermining of the dollar by the end of 2015. That means everything – the whole Russian blowback against Ukraine, which will occur; the BRICS Bank, which has already been signed into deal, a hundred billion, ready to fund. It’s happening very quickly, folks, just as we’ve warned. So the undermining will begin.

        Then he went on to say that we will move – by 2017 and no later, the United States will no later exist. And this coincides with the undermining of the US dollar, which will kill and destroy the United States economy. And at which point – with the dumping of these illegals – that’s why the borders remained wide open. They’re going to shotgun merge us with the Mexicans and the Canadians. In other words, the North American Union is back in play. At the end of 2017, it will be announced that we no longer exist as a functional government – in other words, we will probably default on our debt. When that default occurs, you’ll be looking at major economic upheaval. The General also said that press covers and announcements have already been prepared. The cover pages for the media – that are going to be given to the media – have already been prepared.

        Now, as the General was laying this out, he also made mention of something very profound, which touches base with this article that’s just been written – and a few other articles – of the Teutonic Silk Road that has been written as well, by me. He said that eight billion dollars, conservatively – figures could be anywhere up to thirty-two billion – but eight billion that he knows of, of black ops money, was utilized to help rebuild the Silk Road. And folks, if you read this article, “The New World Reordered” – I made mention of the South Korean President who spoke in the Uzbek city – which is a vital pathway, a vital point in the Silk Road – and that President said that the Silk Road will stretch from where, folks, from where? From London – ah, there is that city again, that people are writing off as dead – and all the way to Busan, the southernmost port city of South Korea, second largest city in South Korea after Seoul, which will be the exit for the pipeline – so we see this massive road.

        Well, the General said that the eight billion dollars will go ahead to create this road, that is made of three-foot super concrete, with one-inch bars and twelve-inch centers. In other words, this concrete is tough as nails. It’s super strong – there is no way you can crumble it or break it. It is incredibly strong, and it will be covered in three feet of structural asphalt – that is, asphalt that is intermingled with fiberglass – so it is going to be very, very strong. There is going to be nothing that is going to break this thing apart – that is what the Silk Road is going to be. And only commercial and military transports and operations will be done on it – only used for military and commercial needs – that’s it, nobody else. And I’ve detailed for you in this article how the Silk Road takes a 42-day sea route and reduces it down to 14 days.

        The General said that this de-industrialization project of the United States has begun with Nixon and was accelerated under Clinton; hence, a lot of our trade secrets went over to the Chinese – that’s why we were de-industrialized. The way the breakdown is going to be – the financial control system, as the General puts it, will be the city of London. The religious component of this entire thing will be the Vatican. The military node – that is going to be very key into this whole operational end to it – will be DC, which will be repositioned in Denver, Colorado, and I will get to later why – and the manufacturing/economic engine of the New World Incorporated will be China. Of course, that will come as no surprise. The General also said that we are on schedule, if not slightly ahead.

        Now, on to the civilian situation. One of the things that he made known to me was the drone pilot program, and he named a specific drone pilot. This is a young gentleman, who is a rising star – who was a rising star – at Colorado Springs Air Force Academy. The kid is very distraught, because last week he’s killed about 37 civilians abroad, using a Predator. This young gentleman said that he feels worse than Hitler because of what he is doing – killing innocent men, women, and children, who are just civilians – he knows they’re not part of any sort of terrorist organization or what not. You see, when these drone guys target you, they can see you as if you are twenty yards away, so it is very close – so when you do explode, they have a clear view, via satellite uplink, of what happens to a human body when it’s hit with a high explosive round or a munition or a missile, whatever have you. So, he went on to detail the drone programs that are run in the United States that are really dark and really highly compartmentalized.

        He says drone pilots do not have contact with one another. They’re not allowed to socialize with one another; they’re not allowed to talk to one another. They sit there; they do their two-man mission, and they are gone. And when they’re dismissed, they are dismissed thirty minutes apart – and they are tailed home by an armed guard to make sure they are going home – and they do not mingle with anybody else. They are always monitored, and they are never alone. That’s serious. The reason is – they are looking for people that can kill others using a drone with no qualms and no problems.

        This ties in to the American civilians’ questions on resistance, which is a question that I asked General. I asked him, What about the resistance? What about the sleeping giant, that we always talk about in terms of the American citizen? And the General said – in his own words – “There is no way to stop this.” He said, “The giant is dead. While the giant was sleeping, we had a special op team come by and bleed the giant out and kill him.”

        He said most of the people that are buying firearms and playing soldier in a firing range are not emotionally ready for the job – they’re not emotionally ready to kill. They don’t have the emotional training to handle the situation properly; they cannot go up against a tactical team. And the second thing that the General said is they have no idea of the size of force that is coming against them. And he made mention of tens and hundreds of thousands of merks – mercenary groups. That would be Academy, formally know as XE, formally known as Blackwater, G4S, Becto, Halliburton, Kraft International – I mean, you name it – there’s going to be a ton of these guys out there. He said that one of the things people fail to realize is that these weapons systems that are force multipliers will kill – like one weapon system could kill thousands – one drone could kill hundreds, or even thousands, of people – those are force multipliers.

        The second thing that the General said is this: when they bring down the United States in 2017 – when this whole thing comes apart – they have, in key locations in the United States, bio weapons placed. And the example that he gave me was this. If you have a 33 oz. can of Folgers coffee, and you take that can of coffee and you have this bio agent in there, and all of a sudden you walk into a busy area – let’s say an overpass in Dallas, Texas, or the George Washington Bridge right here in New York, or something similar to that, where you have a very heavy traffic area – and you just happen to open up that Folgers can. And if the wind outside was about – let’s say about three miles per hour or so – you could have twenty million dead in three days. Twenty million dead in three days. The General went on to say that this type of bio agent will affect the water, the food, and the air. It will take three days to kill, with a near 98 percent kill ratio – and he said that the initial beta tests are on the pneumonic plague and lowgrade pneumonic plague.

        Now, this is what divine providence is – what I was talking about. As soon as he said pneumonic plague, I had one of my contacts send me an article – send me an alert – stating that there was a man in Colorado that has contracted the pneumonic plague. In fact, Ken Shortgen, one of the writers over here at Rogue Money, actually wrote an article on it – out of the blue. It’s incredible.

        The General went on to say that the weapon signature will not be known. In other words, if there is a lab that chooses to research the virulent agents – what its protein makeup is and how to kill it or even identify it properly – it would be impossible. In other words, the autopsies will be impossible to do. What does that mean, folks? It means complete plausible deniability for the parties involved. The government will have complete plausible deniability.

        The other thing the General said is that when this thing happens, they’re going to shut down all passports. All passports will be cancelled. All your airports and shipping ports will be shut down. He said the recent spat of evidence in terms of gun boats – high speed gun boats, that were sighted in Texas, that were sighted right here in New York and in New Jersey and in California, Louisiana, Florida – that they are being operated by special op covert operational teams. Not the ones you see in the black woods in Texas, where you have the Texas State Police riding in – I am not talking about those – these are different boats. The reason for that is this, folks – usually in a collapse situation, people with means will like to hire a skipper, so they can get off land. These boats are there to ensure that anybody that tries to leave will be sent direct to the bottom.

        This is a very high level of covert operational activity, and it is designed to create chaos – and that is the thing that this General has talked about – and he is scared, and this man is not scared of anything. But what is coming upon this country, and what they have planned, has so shaken him to core, that he has contacted me to get out, to leave. He is concerned about his children, that still live and work here, and he is concerned about his grandchildren. But apart from that, he wants to get out of the way. And his thing here, folks – he said, it is important to get this information out, because he wants people to get out of the line of fire. This is exactly what W and I spoke about a few months ago, when we said you gotta get out of the way. The 2017 date is key, and we’ve seen in the last few weeks how things are coming apart. Everything we predicted, we talked about – you want to talk about a proven track record – we told you, folks, that the silver price will be electronic. It will be an electronic price fix, and it would be headed by the CME – we told you about this, and now it’s here, just as we said it was.

        The times are critical, and this bit of information, and now this General – this guy is just coming out of the blue, sharing with me the information. The time tables and protocols match perfectly what we have been saying. A guy who is a Four Star. Who was up for Joint Chiefs but walked away from it. A guy who was in charge of Asymmetric Warfare, which, by the way – another example would be as he said – they would just come and blow your wife and kids away to stop you from fighting. How do you like them apples? That has shaken me to the core.

        Look, I am not in the business of scaring the crap out of people at all. I like offering solutions. But take this information – you pray about it, you think upon it, you chew on it, you think it through thoroughly – and you do what you gotta do in the days that are ahead. If you can get out of the country, and I don’t care where the hell you want to go – you don’t have to – I am not telling you to come down to southern Chile and get involved with what we are doing down there. If you can flee to the north, go north. If you can flee to the south, go south. If you can get on a yacht right now with a little rich friend of yours who you know, and you want to sail out to the middle of nowhere, you go ahead and do that. Or if you just disappear off the grid – stay away from heavily populated areas in these heavily populated states – I’d recommend you do that. Things are going to get ugly.

        This is why the whole border has completely failed, and why this takedown is occurring right now. So take this information and think it through, and act on it. Do not hesitate. Do not wait.

        This is the Guerrilla, over and out.

        • What’s your website? And it’s not possible to go from major to a 4 star in four years.

          • I don’t think Chuck Yeager could’ve done that either. I too would like a website to peruse.

          • It looks like a copy/paste from ‘V The Guerilla’ and an interview with John B. Wells.

            Some of the information I found here:
            h t tp://

            The other guy- (wells) *charges* you for D/L the audio stream. Vulture.

            His site appears to be here:
            h t tp://

        • Interesting read, glad you posted it. We all know that we are in manufactured trouble, that is why we all prep. I often think it will be a combination of disasters, germ, nuke, earthquakes all within a 2-3 week period…

          • Maybe this is the reason why in Revelation we (USA) is not mentioned???
            Just thinking outside the box….

        • Hmmm…couldn’t find any four star USAF generals that went from major to four star general in anything much less than 20 years…most were longer.

          If said general was leaving the country he would have had to resign his commission or retire early. Only one resignation among USAF four stars and that was in 2007.

        • This is a joke if your a man you don’t run,
          If your a general you fight
          If your an American and this is true ,go to the papers,news ,national enquire
          Keep it a secrete ,what a dick, stay off this site
          The people here are prepared to fight, not here to pass the time of day . Let’s talk about how much lime you should keep on hand to bury bodies with, or the names and addresses of the politicians that are screwing up the country,. As far as are people are not ready to kill, watch out for the red dot.

        • yeah, Satori, and his kids and wife, who lived with him there in Africa, have come back to the United States!!!

          • Ebola has a 21 day incubation period – wonder if the family was quarantined for that 21 days, or did they just get on a plane without knowing if they were carrying?

        • Thanks Satori, that was deep and coming from someone like Selco, I think everone should read it. Makes one think whether or not YOU could take a life. If any one causes harm to my family, or intends to, they will get multiple poision tipped 22’s and 12ga with out much remorse. Just had a darker coworker tell me that when the SHTF, he was going to a gun store and get his guns and ammo. I WANTED to tell him that he would be worm fodder in seconds, but I held my tounge, hard to do nowdays….

          • Eppe, if he hasn’t ALREADY got guns and ammo, he will be dead meat.

        • That was actually a good read. Much of what’s on Rawles’ blog usually is, which is why I frequent it… a lot 🙂

      37. Off base as usual question. What makes a homosexual what he/she is? Cayce said they were reincarnated from the days of Atlantis, which would mean humans were here much longer than what we are being taught, sorta like the last article. I am not condemning them, just asking everyone’s opinions. seems to be slow here….


          1. LONG-TERM PARKING:

          Some people left their car in the long-term parking at San Jose while away, and someone broke into the car.
          Using the information on the car’s registration in the glove compartment, they drove the car to the people’s home in Pebble Beach and robbed it. So I guess if we are going to leave the car in long-term parking, we should NOT leave the
          registration/insurance cards in it, nor your remote garage door opener. This gives us something to think about with all our new electronic technology.

          2. GPS:
          Someone had their car broken into while they were at a football game. Their car was parked on the green
          which was adjacent to the football stadium and specially allotted to football fans. Things stolen from the car included a garage door remote control, some money and a GPS which had been prominently mounted on the dashboard. When the victims got home, they found that their house had been ransacked and just about everything worth anything had been stolen. The thieves had used the GPS to guide them to the house. They then used the garage remote control to open the garage door and gain entry to the house. The thieves knew the owners were at the football game, they knew what time the game was scheduled to finish and so they knew how much time they had to clean out the house. It would appear that they had brought a truck to empty the house of its contents. Something to consider if you have a GPS – don’t put your home address in it… Put a nearby address (like a store or gas station) so you can still find your way home if you need to, but no one else would know where you live if your GPS were stolen.

          3. CELL PHONES:
          I never thought of this…….
          This lady has now changed her habit of how she lists her names on her cell phone after her handbag was stolen. Her handbag, which contained her cell phone, credit card, wallet, etc., was stolen. Twenty minutes later when she
          called her hubby, from a pay phone telling him what had happened, hubby says, “I received your text asking about our Pin number and I’ve replied a little while ago.” When they rushed down to the bank, the bank staff told them all
          the money was already withdrawn. The thief had actually used the stolen cell phone to text “hubby” in the contact list and got hold of the pin number. Within 20 minutes he had withdrawn all the money from their bank account.

          Moral of the lesson: a. Do not disclose the relationship between you and the people in your contact list. Avoid using names like Home, Honey, Hubby, Sweetheart, Dad, Mom, etc….
          b. And very importantly, when sensitive info is being asked through texts, CONFIRM by calling back.
          C. Also, when you’re being texted by friends or family to meet them somewhere, be sure to call back to confirm that the message came from them. If you don’t reach them, be very careful about going places to meet “family and friends” who text you.

          A lady went grocery-shopping at a local mall and left her purse sitting in the children’s seat of the cart while she reached something off a shelf… Wait till you read the WHOLE story! Her wallet was stolen, and she reported it to the store personnel. After returning home, she received a phone call from the Mall Security to say that they had her wallet and that although there was no money in it, it did still hold her personal papers. She immediately went to pick up her wallet, only to be told by Mall Security that they had not called her. By the time she returned home again, her house had been broken into and burglarized. The thieves knew that by calling and saying they were Mall Security, they could lure her out of her house long enough for them to burglarize it.

          • @eppe
            neighbor with local baseball team sticker on car returned home one day to find his grill had been stolen. he was pissed off, but it wasn’t the end of the world… a few days go by, he comes home from work, and lo an behold, his grill is back. he found a note in the now returned grill, explaining that they took it for a party, and included some baseball tickets along with their apology.
            you guessed it, he fell for it, house was robbed clean after returning from the game….
            if you ask me, this all stemmed from that bumper sticker on his car. be careful what you advertise, it may be used against you.

        • Both queers in my family were mama’s boys. Neither one seemed to have a father around. In one case, there was a father, but I don’t even know what he looked like. In the other case, the mother married three times, and her father, along with his second wife, took the son’s twin brother away. I have never met that cousin. That part of the family had multiple marriages, so that everyone had step-parents and lots of half-siblings. The family tree in that area is twisted up into knots.

          I believe it comes from how someone is raised, the company they keep, and the choices they make. If it was genetic, it would have been bred out of the gene pool thousands of years ago.

          • Thanks, Arch. Same here to a degree, but it was a tight family, church going, smart closet type. His first words to me on my first born was “Where did you get that monkey?”
            Was ready to slit his throat, probably should have on the sly, would have saved our family from a boatload of shit…
            But everything should have pointed to a perfect person, but he died recently at 78, single, with many valuable assets. I am in the will, waiting to see what is left over, after scamming our family 30 years ago. Made me not trust any of them (homos). Hence the reason I ask???

            • Queer #1 in my family was in a church-going home. His mother, my first cousin, played piano in church. She made him sing “How Great Thou Art” at every family gathering they attended. I guess he got tired of that. He wanted to be an accountant, but couldn’t pass the exam. So he went overseas to work as an accountant, sent most of his money home to his mother, and after a few years he bought an accounting firm near his home town. I didn’t know he was queer until I heard that he bought a mansion and moved in with his boyfriend. I haven’t seen him since he was a teenager.

              As far as queer #2, I don’t think his family ever saw the inside of a church. I don’t remember any weddings or funerals in that part of the family being held at a church.

      38. i’ve lived in costa rica and in arizona- neither are perfect. there’s always trade offs.. phx has palo verde nuke plant to consider , it will run out of water. we’re all stocked up on guns and ready to kill anything that moves..crazy from the heat.
        costa rica is having many problems, then the chinese are putting in a new canal on the northern border.. i sold my place there.
        so i got a little rv and plunk round till d-day. i suppose i’d head out to roosevelt lake first then push north and east.

        • Excellent post PA, my parents grew up in that timespan, heard many stories on how tough life was. We can learn much from these ‘old-timers’ and I remember most all that what my parents have told me.
          Thanks again….

        • It will be hard to believe that life could be more difficult than for those who grew up during those times.
          But, it is in fact a reality that all will face soon.

          The main takeaway from these depression era stories is that many were still able to farm, and had pump wells.
          When the dustbowl hit, almost all lost there animals, crops and farms to drought. That is what we are seeing building right now in CA, NV and other SW states.

          One simply cannot survive without water. Think about all those people living in cities, possibly with no water, and no way to farm. Most of them will die, period. I too, think that Arizona and other extreme temp areas are going to be ‘new expanded Death Valley’ and many have no clue as to the horrors awaiting them just over the horizon.

        The Bug Out theory is simply that, a plan, a theory, a purpose, a dream, not reality. How in the hell is anyone going to bug out anywhere when many peeps are doing the same thing. Many roads will be congested and dangerous.

        We are bugging in with low profile to not generate any excitement
        and we have that ability for months.

        Interesting analysis from km

      40. Yesterday, 7/26, a US District Court ruled that Washington DC’s gun-carry ban was unconstitutional.

      41. you all might want to read the following link:

        Parched West is using up underground water: Study points to grave implications for Western U.S. water supply – See more at:

        synopsis: 75% of groundwater in entire west is gone. studys use of NASA satellite involving gravity changes caused by loss of water mass above and below ground. and these changes occurred only between 2004 and 2013. and lets not forget that it is well documented that the west in its history, has had droughts last for 100-300 YEARS at a time, and is not an UNCOMMON event. and more food for thought, most of the development of the west started during the 1940s’ and forward, was during one of the wettest known times documented according to paleoclimatologists.

        better have a drink!

      42. A Freudian analyst would find this site of “loony tune” gunsexuals a fertile field to explore.

        • Scrooge: LOL…you are so right! Please tell me what sites you like to visit….

          I need a sobering dose of left-wing, metro/homosexual, pansy-assed, delusional, Obama worshipping, hypocritical, America hating, Muslim loving, Constitution/Bill of Rights destroying, Agenda 21 believing, intolerant, baby-killing, war mongering, privacy invading, etcetera ad naseum, people to talk to….

          These “crazies” here who support America and her founding principles are just too much…right???


          • Okay people….we need to start doing what the TROLLS do. Instead of just chatting amongst ourselves…we need to go to the left sites and comment, disrupt, disinfo, etc. We need to use their own game against them…seriously.

            It is time to engage using their own weapons against them…and maybe get someone to actually think….or…..

            Go to “democratic underground(dot)com” and read their posts… about “loony tune”…


          • Sounds like a description of YOURSELF there!

            • LOL…Hey Eisen….how’s your mom?


            • PK Looloop, f#$5 you! Don’t attack my family if you know what’s good for you.

              • LOL….when BH finds out you are using his name again…..


        • Scrooge, THIS article is NOTHING! Check it out when they run some bullshit story about taking everyone’s guns away and REALLY watch them go ape shit!

          • Anonymous, f#$% you! We have truth here which you don’t know anything about.

            • BH: Look a few posts above…somebody is using your handle again…


              • Obviously you must have dyslexia or just a bad case of the terminal stupids there pk.

            • count yourself as lucky again braveheart. mac slavo must think you’re too big a pussy to contend with my rebuttals so he’s decided to play daddy to you again. This place is REALLY turning into pussy city. You mean to tell me that THESE are the people who are gonna survive the big apocalypse when they have to be shielded from a little verbal criticism? WHAT A FUCKING JOKE!

        • Scrooge, we have truth on this site and at many other sites in the ALTERNATIVE MEDIA. Because we don’t trust the corporate mainstream media to give us good information about anything. Maybe you need to go back to the MSM sites if you’re unwilling to try to learn something here.

      43. The Jews’ Plan for Disarmament
        of the WHOLE World

        In 1961 the U.S. government (controlled from behind by the Jews) formulated a Plan to disarm every nation of the World, except, of course, the nation of Israel, a nation that has enough nuclear weapons to annihilate the entire planet.

        “War” has been used since the beginning of history by every tyrant dictator to control their subjects, and the U.S. is no different. While the U.S. masquerades as a democracy, it has become arguably the most wicked and murderous nation of all time.

        The masquerade is represented by the visible government –the Senate and House of Representatives, two impotent groups that are nothing more than a rubber stamp for the Invisible government.

        The Invisible government – the REAL government – the government that truly writes and enforces the law – is run by the International Illuminati bankers – the Rothschilds, the Rockefellers, the progeny of the Kuhns, Loebs and Schiffs, etc., virtually all of which are Jews, and their “go-fers” such as Henry Kissinger, Joseph Lieberman, Al Gore (yes, he too is a Jew – a crypto-Jew – a Jew who pretends to be a “Gentile”), Bill and Hillary Clinton (she has admitted to being Jewish and certainly would NOT marry a NON-Jew), and many others.

        The Secret Societies controlled by these high-level Jewish bankers, including the Council on Foreign Relations (CFR), the Bilderbergers, the Club of Rome, the Round Table in England, and many others, began to have grave concerns about how they would control the people when “War” is no longer a threat.

        So a committee of 15 “Americans” was chosen by high level government administrators and advisors (from behind the scenes), to formulate a plan to control the people of all nations when there was no more possibility of “War” – when the world would be “at peace.”

        The group, chosen for their total lack of morality and their utter ruthlessness including a willingness to murder their own mother, met in an underground nuclear bunker called Iron Mountain, in western Pennsylvania. The committee represented a wide range of disciplines: a lawyer, a businessman, a professional war planner, representatives from the natural sciences, the social sciences, and even the humanities.

        The following document, with the high-sounding name of “Freedom from War” contains the exact Plan for disarmament of all nations of the world – EXCEPT Israel.

      44. Stand your ground!!! You are getting ready to run when no one pursues you! There is nowhere to run too!

      45. This is what I will tell my neighbor when he asks for food. “I am not the Welfare department or the food stamp office, but I have some wheat, corn and some oats I will sell (A quart for a silver dollar.) or I will trade some for these Items etc. I may trade a quart for a days work too. Please keep this a secret because if you tell the wrong people you and I will have nothing.”
        I do not wish to be a hoarder nor do I wish to be killing my neighbor. I was commanded to LOVE my neighbor to the best of my understanding. Help them to live long enough to teach them to be as self sufficient as possible. Think of your neighbors and then consider buying a ton of wheat for them. I for one do not wish to let fear turn me into a selfish,greedy and murderous hoarder living in a rabbit hole with the muzzle of a 12ga sticking out of the hole to greet them.
        Take a minute to think who you wish to be and then make the necessary plans to become ……

      46. I really am getting a laugh out of the AZ comments. No water, no rain, bla bla…LOL. Good, don’t come here! (smile) Gun laws are excellent. I think only about 2-3 other states are as red as AZ. The article talks about the myriad of options in the MOUNTAINS of AZ away from the larger cities like Flag, Prescott and Payson. My BOL is smack dab in the middle of the Moggolon Rim…and I counted 51 elk last Saturday evening in the meadow behind my place, saw 2 large mules 10 minutes later, and a pack of 8-9 Jav’s later that night. One cow elk was in my front yard Sun. morning, the next day, as I drank my coffee on the porch. It’s been RAINING up there for 10 days. I’ve got 5 fruit trees, -the elk keep destroying the bottom levels of, and gardens grow like they are on ‘roids.
        And…deep breath… I grew up in Michigan! Ta-Da! Hunted most of Northern MI and the UP, but grew up a troll (under the bridge). Wouldn’t trade the mogollon rim in a SHTF event, “the West”, or the low population advantage, for freaking Democratic, gun and God hating “Michigan” with its 10.5 Million people! Ever! And one correction on the article, you CAN NOT get to Rim Country or the White Mountains in East AZ from CALI on a tank of gas, period. On 95% of vehicles you can’t even reach PHX from LA –so believe me they ain’t going to get to Central or Northern AZ –at best the’d end up in Vegas and run dry around the boarder of AZ/CA on I-40. I’ve done the trip 100 times. And nobody is going up into the mountains of AZ without an established BOL. It’s 4 seasons man! The lack of logic and full blown ignorance on here is astounding sometime, and this time since the article covers MY area and BOL, I thought I’d chime in and say Skousen is SPOT ON, except for a little interpretation. Oak Creek Canyon just burned down 2 months ago by slide rock, north of Sedona, so scratch that idea, unless you’ve got 20 years for the trees to re-grow and think we’re “safe” for the next 20 –NOT! Also, in the article he wasn’t advocating for water hauling west of Flag around Williams and Ask Fork is where that happens, he’s advocating for the other areas mentioned.
        The Rim, White Mountains, and South East of Flagstaff past Mormon Lake are all excellent locations for your set up if you can find affordable property –Good Luck! I’m going up Friday after work, like always. Enjoy prepping. I’m ready, are YOU?

        • ….sigh….Hey Arizonians….thousands of people read this site….


          • Yes, and you’ve betrayed yourself as a fool to ALL of them lol!

            • YAAAWWWWNNNNNnnnnnnn……

      47. (see also SurvivalRetreatPlans-dot-com) I chose Arizona, and I’m so glad people avoid this state as a prepper destination or bugout haven. What I really wanted to comment on was the references to trucking water for those places where wells are not practical. I installed a rainwater collection and storage system (CatchSomeRain-dot-com) on my desert land and usually have close to 4,000 gallons of drinkable water stored. Limited resources is the theme of survival and sustainability, so learn how to live with less of everything, including water, electricity, food, stuff… Catch rain, it’s free.

      48. Went to the mtns in NC this WE. Talk about some prime BOL! Those folks have been in Bug out mode for over 100 years. Indian shop had a t-shirt
        “Trust the Government”
        “Ask any Indian”
        (or something like that)
        Tons of water. Tons of plants. and mtn roads that simply will not support a tank or any big old terrorist machine.

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