VAPORIZED: Detroit Obliterates Retirement Funds: 80% Cuts to Pensioners: “This Is Going to Affect Everyone”

by | Dec 3, 2013 | Headline News | 597 comments


Though a decade ago civil servants and union members would never have believed it could happen, the stark reality of the situation came to pass this morning.

We now know the answer to the question: What happens when a government makes promises it can’t keep and borrows so much money it can never be repaid?

This morning a judge overseeing the City of Detroit’s fiscal sustainability ruled that the City can be afforded bankruptcy protection, meaning that all 100,000 of its creditors now stand to lose a significant portion of monies owed to them.

The most notable victims are the tens of thousands of retirees living off of pensions – many of whom will see an 80% obliteration of the retirement funds they believed they’d receive until they died.

Creditor attorneys have repeatedly speculated they expect Orr’s plan of adjustment to mirror the June 14 proposal he offered creditors to avoid bankruptcy. That deal proposed giving unsecured creditors such as pensioners and bondholders a $2 billion note for $11.5 billion in estimated debts — or less than 18 cents for every dollar owed.

Most of those affected assumed the government would simply find a way to borrow more money or fabricate it out of thin air. They were wrong and now they are paying the price:

“Oh my, oh my. Everyone is worried. When we think about what could happen, it’s scary,” said Larsen, 85, who moved to Palm Harbor, Fla., outside of Tampa after he retired in 1976.

“If they take our health insurance? Oh god. Cutting pensions? It’s terrible. The city of Detroit was our pride. Honest to goodness. We loved it.”

“We are all worried,” said Nancy Schmidt, the group’s secretary. “This is going to affect everyone in different ways. If it comes to fruition, I’ve got two empty bedrooms and I may end up having to rent them out.”

“My net pension is $2,300 a month,” said Kammer, 77, who moved to Englewood, Fla., not long after retiring with a disability in 1977.

“I could make it for a while, go through savings, but pretty soon, I’d end up in bankruptcy.”

“(Retirees) feel like something that they’ve earned and were promised is being taken away from when they’re not in a position in their lives to plan for it and fight back,” Plecha said. “They’re at a time in their lives when they’re most vulnerable.”

Detroit is the first and they have now set a precedent for other cities in similar situations. You can be assured that more will follow.

First it will be the cities. Then the states will go under. And finally, the Grand-Poobah – our own Federal government. Detroit’s debts are pocket change compared to the $200 trillion in future liabilities owed by the United States of America.

If you are depending on a government retirement package to be there for you for the rest of your life, you’d better think again. Over twenty thousand Detroit retirees thought the same thing – and as of today they have been wiped out.

When this crisis hits the Federal Government – and it will – you’d better be ready for them to take drastic measures. This means they’ll be forced to not only cut retirement benefits promised to federal employees, but will make the case that if they have to give up their retirement funds, you’ll have to give up your 401k, IRA or personal savings.

Sounds impossible, right? Congressional members have already gotten the ball rolling on a nationalization of America’s retirement funds, and when they are ready to do it they’ll pass the legislation just like they did when they seized 1/6th of our economy by nationalizing health care.

They are coming for the money – YOUR money – because they will be left with no other choice.

If you’re not planning on a secondary income stream or preserving wealth in the form of gold and silver, productive land, or other tangible assets, you’ll end up just like the retirees from Detroit. Having additional resources, like a well stocked long-term pantry and a preparedness plan for financial disaster, can mean the difference between living in poverty or thriving when best laid plans fall apart.

Plan for the worst, because that’s what’s coming.

Inflation is Running at 40-Year Highs!

Negative interest rates are taxing savers, creating food shortages, and making life miserable in the United States!

There's little time left before the REAL DISASTER occurs!

Download the Ultimate Reset Guide Now!

    Related Articles



    1. Ugly


      That would be a good title for a movie.

      • Be informed

        @ Ugly. So would the words, “Super dumbasses” for any city, county, state, or nation that goes bankrupt with all the last natural resources that this country has. There is no excuse to allow prosperity to fall to this level. I copuld see some war torn country or some country like the Philippines hit with series after series of natural calamities. What excuse does the U.S. have? NONE. Stupidity has lead to to this and greed IF this is not all planned out. Either case the regular person suffers, and that sucks.

        • Peterson

          Man that’s funny, great post!

          • OutWest

            Any one-industry city can now be expected
            to founder under the loss of their single
            bread and butter livelihood to outsourcing.

            The demise of the auto industry will be
            joined by the steel, coal, and many other
            like industries that whole cities sprung up
            around to service those needs.

            As the major cities go down, so do the states
            they reside in for want of the lost revenue,
            and the feds will follow suit to their lead.

            “For lack of a nail, the shoe was lost……”

            • JD

              Soon to happen in other cities.

              • buttcrackofdoom

                i would venture to say soon to happen to MOST cities….as mish is fond of saying “what CAN’T be paid back, WON’T be paid back”! BTW, he’s been talking about the union/pension problems for years. google him.

                • yourmotherwaswrong

                  VAPORIZED: Detroit Obliterates Retirement Funds:
                  80% Cuts to Pensioners: “This Is Going to Affect Everyone”

                  “The problem with socialism is that eventually you run out of other people’s money.”

                  Moral of the Story:

                  If you lay down with dogs, you’ll wake up boned.

                • KY Mom


                  (October 2009)
                  “By any quantifiable standard, the city is on life support. Detroit ‘s treasury is $300 million short of the funds needed to provide the barest municipal services.”

                  “The murder rate is soaring, and 7 out of 10 remain unsolved. Three years after Katrina devastated New Orleans , unemployment in that city hit a peak of 11%. In Detroit today, the unemployment rate is 28.9%. That’s worth spelling out: twenty-eight point nine percent.”

                  News With Views

              • HD74Man

                RE: “Soon to happen to other cities”…Talked to a postal clerk the other day. According to him, the US Postal Service is losing $25 million a day. Detroit is just the first domino to start the stack falling. Chalk it all up to the disconnect between the public sector-aka no voter control over the demands of the public employee unions; and the private sector, where outrageous taxes to pay for the above, plus the burgeoning out of control welfare system are destroying everybody.

                • arizona

                  HD74 man,ITS NOT WELFARE,its endless WAR,one year of war, would pay for every man, woman and child on planet earth to have food,education,housing,and clothing,EVERYONE ON THE PLANET………………

                • jason

                  YOu’ll notice that the two examples of retirees listed above Both have more than 35 YEARS of retirement benefits already.This also means that they both retired around 50. Under what condition and when did retirement go to twenty year and out or even thirty years and out? Under what condition can any country’s working people pay THIRTY or MORE years of retirement, meaning they get more years of retirement than they ever worked?

            • Peterson

              You KFC me and my post, or was your stupid poem posted in error?

              • Mr. Blutarsky

                GOOD GOD!!!! No wonder Detroit is bankrupt!!

                Mr. Larsen retired when he was 51 and has been getting a pension since 1976!!! Who retires when they are 51??!!??

                Mr. Kammer went out on disability when he was 41 and is being paid $2300 per month!!!! 36 years of this money! Sorry, but if he is still living then the disability must not have been THAT bad. Looks like he figured out early in the game what the 10,000,000 Americans on “disability” are now loving. Free money for no work.

                God Help Us.

                • pissinwiththewind

                  Shame on you Mr. B!

                  Many of those folks receiving their “paid-up”, personal Social Security Disability funds, are well deserving of it; with no skin coming off your judgemental ass.

                  WTF do you mean by “free money”? If one has been employed long enough and the funds were deducted every pay period, then it can’t be considered “free money”.

                  Were not talking about welfare or foodstamps, dumbass.
                  Even if we were, how has recepients of those programs directly affected your daily income or taxes?

                  Just what i thought. It has only affected you, and those that think like you, in your minds.

                  Yea, there are mis-uses and fraud in the system. But there are many situations were individuals can’t even get their paid in benefits because of doctors and judges personal feelings or mis-guided observations coming into play.

                  Example: I have proof that my neck is half broken and I suffer with daily migranes and neck cramps because of it. My blood pressure, even with medication is borderline stroke and the associated dizziness and blurred vision keeps me from doing any activities without risk of injury to myself or others. Those are just two of several health issues i suffer with daily.
                  A “conservative” thinking judge says I am capable of working at something even if it is not in my previous 20 year job history category.

                  Well, hells bells! Who is gonna hire a 57 year old disabled man that is potentially gonna miss at least half his work schedule because of those disabilities?

                  The quick answer is……NONE!

                  Is my disability life threatening and resulting in an early grave? Maybe Is my disabilities causing me to use a walker or a wheelchair? No

                  However; if i were to go to that extreme way of mobility, then most likely the same judge would see me as disabled instead of a healthy looking, slightly over-weight, senior with a few minor(to him) pain issues.

                  So Mr. B, before you go casting judgement like the judge in my case has, maybe you should get the chance to walk a mile in my shoes. God forbid you become disabled, but you would see things differently if it were you just barely getting by.

                  Aside from the disability issue, it is sad that one person, a judge, can ruin the lives of people with the stroke of a pen. Yea, those union pensioners are probably overpaid anyway but if it were your only income, how would you feel?

                  With all the money wasted by government fraud and mismanagement; not to mention billions, just handed over to hostile countries and regimes; I think the “deserving” retirees should be exzempt from the bankruptcy of the city. The persons in positions of power and authority that caused the mess should have to pay the price for their stupidity and greed.

                  But the system of judges, lawyers and courts are set up to protect the power hungry crooks. Not the victims.

                  Everyone will get what they have coming to them when the Ultimate Judge starts handing out sentences. Some of those “self-righteous” judges and lawyers will be humbled to their knees and face all the people that they have done wrong. May God have mercy on their soul, because their rock is not our Rock! Their rock will crumble down into the abyss forever, and many, many, will go with him.

                • Anonymous

                  apples and oranges. Look at the math Blutarsky presents: 36 years x 12 months per equals 432 payments of $2300 each for a total of $993,600. This tells every pensioner they can spend every penny of their income until retirement because they are effectively millionaires upon retirement. Put another way, a private sector employee with comparable income must save $993,600 by retirement to be even with the public sector employee.

                  smart-ass wisdom of course says so go be a public employee instead of a private-sector employee but common sense says the private middle class cannot fund the public middle class. Obviously, the wealthy duck paying in, for the most part.

                  So take the ride while you can public sector but do not be shocked when the well runs dry. As other commenters from the public sector on here have noted, they have long realized they had a sweetheart deal (as middle class incomes go) and have prepped accordingly, refusing to believe in unending magic math.

                  Yes, those who made those deals are to be blamed, but don’t be shocked when those who simply inherited the tax consequences of those pension deals cannot or will not honor them. Someone quoted Mish: “What can’t be paid back won’t be paid back.”

                  I’ve been saying since the Egypt riots that when ours come, it won’t be launched by our poor, it will be the recently retired public sector employees with the sweetest deals (far from all public employees, but teachers and LEO of the past 20 years often fall into this category.)

                  Sorry, but someone else promised you this on my behalf and I do not have it to pay to you. And I think it should have been fairly obvious for some time now that the numbers wouldn’t hold long-term, so hopefully you prepped while you could have instead of spending it all.

                • jaxx

                  “Aside from the disability issue, it is sad that one person, a judge, can ruin the lives of people with the stroke of a pen. Yea, those union pensioners are probably overpaid anyway but if it were your only income, how would you feel?”

                  Doesn’t matter how I would feel. Doesn’t matter how you feel. Doesn’t even matter how the judge feels in the end, or anybody else. This is simple arithmetic. You’re argument isn’t with external heartless people. It’s with math. The money isn’t there. PERIOD.

                  That is the main reason this crash is going to be so horrendous…there are a LOT of people who can’t imagine that people would be so “mean” or “heartless” as to take money away from poor or disabled people. News flash: you can’t take away what isn’t there. It’s not even a moral issue.

                  The level of expectations today needs a massive reset. People need to learn to be happy with what they can get, because it’s going to be very, very difficult to get anything at all soon. If people are expecting to have stuff handed to them free (even if they paid into SS) they’re going to be very, very angry and then violent.

                  I’m personally expecting zero pension. Zero SS. Zero medicare/medicaid. Zero anything that I haven’t put by myself. I refuse to take out a school loan when my little girl is ready for college, so I’m saving up for that IN CASH. Until we have it she won’t go, because I refuse to give the government or banks an opening to start sucking the blood out of my family.

                  I have a hard time feeling too bad for someone who’s had a free ride for 40 years. I’m not much older than that now, and I’ve worked damn hard for a lot of that time. I assume I’ll be working until I die, and if I am somehow able to retire that’ll be a bonus.

                  And I know about disability. I have cystic fibrosis. That doesn’t change the amount of money available.

                • Liam

                  That is what America has become– a nation of lazy, whiner, freeloader parasites. Hard work and innovation made America great. Now socialist blood sucking thievery has sabotaged the American dream. It’s a crying shame. All because of the greed and class warfare and laziness of liberals.

                • HD74Man

                  @Mr.B…It ain’t 10k on disability but 11 million or more than the entire population of Greece. F*ck these a*hole deadbeats. I dated a woman who lived in a HUD apartment complex for the disabled and elderly. Scammers everywhere. Second vacation homes deeded over to the kids so they can sit round in heat and electricity provided apartments in the winter for $125.00. Then you got the $8.00 2 pack a day obese smokers runnin’ around on those dipshit scooters havin’ all their laundry and other assorted errands done by “care providers”. These losers should be forced to live with their kids and relatives, not as BS freeloaders off the US taxpayer.

                • HD74Man

                  @Mr.B…It ain’t 10k on disability but 11 million or more than the entire population of Greece. F*ck these a*hole deadbeats. I dated a woman who lived in a HUD apartment complex for the disabled and elderly. Scammers everywhere. Second vacation homes deeded over to the kids so they can sit round in heat and electricity provided apartments in the winter for $125.00. Then you got the $8.00 2 pack a day obese smokers runnin’ around on those dipshit scooters havin’ all their laundry and other assorted errands done by “care providers”. These losers should be forced to live with their kids and relatives, not as BS freeloaders off the US taxpayer.

                • Tomas

                  Bluto, I caught that too. Funny thing is a lot of codgers are in the same boat, and have been living off of way generous benefits for far too long. They somehow feel “entitled” to that level OS retirement, considering they put in little if anything towards it. My grandpa worked for on of the big rubber companies, retired in I believe 75 and lived another 20 some years. He was paid more per month in retirement than he ever made while working. Also,had 100% health coverage for him and his wife. Wife continued to receive benes after his death per retirement agreement. This was private company, not taxpayer supported, so good for him.

                  All this strife is due to inflation and unions being able to essentially vote themselves raises and exorbitant benefits. Thank you unions, federal reserve and politicians. You ALL are responsible for this. Own it.

              • HD74Man

                Arizona…point taken. My father served with the 12th Armored Division in Patton’s 3rd Army and was seriously wounded at the Battle of the Bulge while trying to take out a 2nd Panzer Div. 88mm with a bazooka outside the Belgium town of Noville. So, growing up, WW II was always in my household, and I’ve always been a believer in a strong military and buying American. However, I was No. 42 in the ’72 Vietnam draft and remember thinkin’ on my way to have my physical…Begun in ’61, and this war is still goin’ on? WTF? However, the biggest travesty is this f*ckin’ war in Afghanistan over a pile of dirt, a scrum of opium growers, and some strategic ground for an invasion of Iran. Every country that has ever gotten involved with this place has had their asses handed to them economically, from the Ottoman Empire to the Russians. Trillions into the pockets of the defense contractors with attendant kickbacks to politicos is what it’s all about. And everybody is pissin’ and moanin’ about Detroit. Tip of the iceburg, my fried.

            • Peterson

              Braveheart called… asked me to post for him…. says no one is taking his pension OR his preps….
              – he is Braveheart

              • senormechanico

                Let Braveheart speak for HIMSELF !

                • Peterson

                  I would, be he isn’t around…. last I heard he was seen riding on a nuke near Mexico City…. go figure huh?

              • laura m.

                Peterson, B’heart, etc: No one is touching our 401k which we’ve been drawing out a year now, SS for 4 yrs now. His military pension since l981. We earned every cent. ( U Can’t touch this -rap song w/a new meaning: U is the gov’mint).

            • JustMe

              “For Want of a Nail”

              For want of a nail the shoe was lost.
              For want of a shoe the horse was lost.
              For want of a horse the rider was lost.
              For want of a rider the message was lost.
              For want of a message the battle was lost.
              For want of a battle the kingdom was lost.
              And all for the want of a horseshoe nail.

              – Centuries Old Proverb

            • jr23

              the thing with Detroit in the late 70 they car factories started moving out what did the dems that ran the city do?
              instead of doing some cuts they borrowed more, gave raises and higher benefits, built grandiose public buildings. officials did nothing when devils night went on for years. and the people themselves how many decades did they have the same mayor. all pensions should be payed for as accrued,in investments most businesses stopped pay as you go years ago
              time for gov to follow the lead. some on pensions, not all of them benefited on the backs of taxpayers and also caused the problem as council and managers but as usual the reg worker will get the brunt of it

          • Old Gringo

            ….”and the vanishing pension that disappears the moment you go to collect it. And now….they’re coming for your social security money. THEY WANT IT BACK! To give to their criminal friends on Wall Street”…… (George Carlin)

            Suggest ALL go to youtube and watch
            “The American Dream” by George Carlin.

            Miss ya George.

            • Peterson

              Learn what reply means!

              Bravehearts OUT!

              • Facebook Page

                Bravehearts replies should be good tonight.

                • John Q. Public

                  Apologizing in advance for an occasional genuine public servant, it is difficult to muster even crocodile tears for the lazy, surly bureaucrats and abusive thugs who will soon be eating dog food from cans.

                  Which of these bureaucrats did more good than harm? Which of these parasite paper-pushers accomplished more than the welfare layabouts upon whom they rained tax money? Which of these tough guy power trippers hasn’t earned some justice?

                  Let them finally get productive jobs or depend on the charity of others.

                • Peterson

                  LOL….. Where is that Cuban at?

                • Mountain Trekker

                  Want to hear a good one! I think every one on this site has been fooled. Guess which two commenters are missing on the same day. Eisenkraut and Braveheart! Same Guy? Trekker Out.

                • Outlaw

                  perhaps many posters here fool us?
                  Trekker Out

                • Peterson

                  Didn’t notice that Mountain. Thanks for the heads up on the Cuban.

                • Facebook Page

                  He is not the Cuban his Wife was.

            • John W.

              The estimate is that in the next twenty years 40 million more jobs will be outsourced while at the same time tens of millions of third world immigrants will not only be admitted but will become the majority. I doubt if anyone will be getting a pension, healthcare or any freedom under sharia. This is something that cannot be stopped unless some big changes are made as to who runs this country. Boner is getting ready to sell us out on immigration.

              • dog

                Right on

          • Peterson

            Braveheart “going tactical” with his 38 special on every Peterson listing in the phone book? Its not like him to not be around here.

            • jim in Va.

              How about adding something to the covversation instead of blather!

              • Peterson

                I am….. aren’t we all waiting for Braveheart to show up and tell everyone that they aren’t gonna take his?…. I think so there James.

                Maybe BraveCuban is road tripping up there to Detroit to save the teachers pensions and free them from Obamacare…. you know how them teachers are, they never saw it coming… and you KNOW they are just as shocked right now as KFC is (was) that they are getting the shaft. Its a thought anyways, right?

            • sparkey

              Peterson is this what he eats cant be his name?

          • Terry S

            Peterson–They will come for yours too.

            • Peterson

              Like I give a shit!….. LOL They can have it. I’ve been telling the likes of the liberal dipshit teacher lovers that their Great Goverment is gonna turn around and screw them one day in the future… so. It won’t be a shock to me and I’ll be laughing my ass off at the mass of retards who don’t pay attention.

          • Peterson

            You guys see where some radioactive material has been stolen in Mexico???

            • Peterson

              Braveheart at work?

        • GV

          This was all predicted and has fallen into place as planned.

          No one paying attention should be surprised at all.

          They will continue looting everything they can until they no longer can. It’s that simple.


          • RICH99

            You are ABSOLUTELY right and THAT is why this collapse will be a gradual descent for the years to come …..some on here keep saying it has already collapsed when in reality it’s still underway !!! They will STEAL EVERYTHING before the ship goes completely under for good


            Just bought a fat bar of silver for the kid for xmas. It’s real….and it has long-range value. Kiss my ass banksters.

            Silver porn…guy showing his stash… enjoy.

          • messianicdruid

            The Last official act of government: Loot the Nation.

            • John W.

              That is already happening. Not much left to loot, retirement accounts will be the next to go, then home equity will be stolen as will any life insurance policies that will still exist. When Obamacare kicks in for real there will be almost no disposable income left after paying premiums and deductibles. Yet if Obama ran for a third term he would win. That is how stupid americans now are.

        • Genius

          Thank god I was never a dumbass and never counted on my union pension or SSI. I saw this coming 10 years or more ago. The writing has been on the wall for a long time. During the good times I spent most of my fed notes wisely 13 years of prepping. I try and warn others theyre pension will not be there and they look at me like I have 2 heads. 1 friend did listen and got 75% of his retirement out of the system and into tangibles, I’m sure he will be thanking me. Obamacare will take care of the retirees (not in a good way) and war will take care of the rest. You’d better have your savings in something of value out of the hands of govt. (metals, etc.) cause if you don’t yer fooked! I hate to tell the morons “I told you so” but that appears to be the case. I haven’t had a credit card or debt in 12 years and it feels good. Ignorance is NOT bliss and the ignorant are going to pay BIG TIME!

          • wontsellumybreadforarock

            Yeah, your metals will be worth a lot when TSHTF… I laugh harder at people like you who believe this, then the ones who are too stupid to even know there’s a problem.

            • Genius

              Who’s stupid here? I believe you had better look in the mirror! What are you going to bribe your way through a checkpoint with? A loaf of bread lol. Metals are for a store of wealth AFTER you have the rest of your preps in order. But then you are probably just jealous because you can’t afford them or were too stupid to aquire any when you could. Have fun getting out of a jam with the cops/troops with a can of soup retard lol. And what ever will you do when you need something from someone and you have nothing they want in return? As Yoda would say “the force is dim in this one” ha ha ha

              • wontsellumybreadforarock

                Your saying your going to carry arround your gold through checkpoints, and there going to accept it, because they can run to the bank and trade it in for WHAT? Right, then your the retard. Even if they did except the bribe, do you really think that their then going to let you go on your merry way and at the very least not follow you, take whatever else they want from you and then off you? And by the way, your the slow one if you think you will be dealing with boy scouts at these check points. And by the way, you may live another day to look at your pretty gold stash, if you avoid those checkpoints and other persons at all cost.

                • Genius

                  People all through history have bribed theyre way out of checkpoints etc. The jews did it in ww2. Gold and silver will ALWAYS be worth something in any currency of the time. Do you think some guard will say “damn this guy is giving me some gold I’d better stop him and search his car and give it all to my boss!” Don’t be stupid, 99% of them will take it for themselves. If they didn’t let you through then they would lose theyre bounty. And yes avoiding them is best but in case you can’t, you’d better be ready!

          • John W.

            Why would you not have a credit card? That is about stupid. You must be one poor person who never leaves the house. pathetic. Pay the thing off every month.

            • Genius

              Ever hear of a debit card? Works the same way except it comes out of checking. All else is paid in cash or money orders, minimum paper trail. Now WHO’S PATHETIC AND STUPID? I bet you are a walmart shopper and are in debt. Now thats really pathetic!

        • Ugly


          I would definitely be a co-star of that movie. My first days of prepping were from fear, thus I paid dearly for silver and bought junk. I bought a hand-crank lantern that shined the light for about 2 minutes and then went kaput. Now I take my time and buy something of value month by month, not by fear.

          It would be an excellent topic for Mac to cover, ‘Prepper Disaster Purchases–from gold to junk’. What did we buy that was pure junk and are too embarassed to admit it?

          • DumbDude

            Just curious what did you pay for silver? I paid [email protected] for silver eagles.

            I bought 40 of em to give to my two sons for tooth fairy gifts (with the Idea that I’ll keep them safe for them until they’re adults.)

            • WhoWuddaThunkIt

              Ha!! I sold all my silver coins when it Hit $42, a few days off the high in March 2012. I told all my friends and family to sell it.. They didn’t. People need to learn NOT to fall in love with anything.(Tangibles) Then Silver dropped to half price off the high. I’ve now been on a mass challenge to pay off all my remaining debt and now trying to sell my house in the city as well for the acreage country life off the grid. I just don’t need that BS stress anymore, and with a collapse coming…

              • Buck

                Sold our house in the burbs last year and couldn’t be happier. No more f### ing neighbors and feeling pressure to Shovel snow off the sidewalks or trim the bushes or cut the grass in a timely fashion or keeping the kids from making too much noise. We are now owners to some acreage can’t see a neighbor, have 40 chickens and a few goats, my kids(children) are free and we can walk around naked in the yard whenever it suits us. Life is good….until the Shtf…that is. Keep prepping, slow and steady, and the goods add up. I know there has been some discussion on water filters and pumps for wells. Our well in 130 feet deep and would welcome some advice on a hand pump or solar. I was going to buy a berkey water filter but with mixed reviews I am now not sure any advice on that and how many extra filters some have bought if the system need filters replaced. Thanks all have a great day

                • gone2hilo

                  I bought a Handy Pump and it works wonderfully! Throws water right up out of the ground. Well worth the investment. Easy to install and less than $200! I would highly recommend it. I feel safe now that we can get the water out of the ground without electricity

                • Smokey

                  Second on the Handy Pump.

                  Ideally, build a platform, put a water tank on it, and run it into your plumbing system, gravity feed, with a separate dry well or hole to put your waste water. That and a septic system will keep you pretty much normal as far as water and sewer when the time comes.

                • Paranoid

                  It’s -5 here and neighbors or not I’m not going to walk around nude in the yard.

                • Mountain Trekker

                  Welp Paranoid, up here in the Northwest corner of the great redoubt, it’s 10:50 pm and -12 degrees. All preppers welcome, it’s only going to be like this for 5 or 6 days. You might want to stop over in Casper it may be warmer there. Trekker Out.

                • lastmanstanding

                  Mountain Trekker, you had better get a compass and learn how to read it or change your handle…Wyoming isn’t anywhere near the NW part of the American Redoubt.

                  No way I’d be trekking anywhere with you.

                • Mountain Trekker

                  Lastman, I’m pretty sure you couldn’t trek with me. And I know exactly where the Redoubt is and I know where I’m at, and a compass does come in handy. So if your looking for a fight, try someone else. Trekker Out.

              • Buck

                Sold our house in the burbs last year and couldn’t be happier. No more f### ing neighbors and feeling pressure to Shovel snow off the sidewalks or trim the bushes or cut the grass in a timely fashion or keeping the kids from making too much noise. We are now owners to some acreage can’t see a neighbor, have 40 chickens and a few goats, my kids(children) are free and we can walk around naked in the yard whenever it suits us. Life is good….until the Shtf…that is. Keep prepping, slow and steady, and the goods add up. I know there has been some discussion on water filters and pumps for wells. Our well in 130 feet deep and would welcome some advice on a hand pump or solar. I was going to buy a berkey water filter but with mixed reviews I am now not sure any advice on that and how many extra filters some have bought if the system need filters replaced. Thanks all have a great day

          • jerrytbg

            Have done what you have…
            At first amassing quantity to have “something”…
            Then acquiring quality as time and money permits to later use the “quantity” for barter…
            It’s the way I approached it…and I’m certain I’m not alone.

            • sixpack

              Nope, you’re not. I bought all kinds of stuff that wasn’t what I thought it would be. Some of the more expensive stuff I sent back or traded off for something I did want/need.

              I have extras here and there. For example, I have 4 solar battery chargers. I’ll keep two and trade two. I’ve got a case of half-pint bottles of brandy I picked up at an auction…I don’t drink alcohol, but at roughly $1.25 each, they make good barter, or even stocking stuffers. (If nothing else, they’d make good fire-bombs…)

              I plan ahead. Everything I do is for a purpose. It’s who I am, it’s what I do.

              • jerrytbg

                As well, all my life I’ve thought this way…
                It’s what some of us are wired to do.

            • Genius

              DO NOT BUY A BERKEY! Do some research, the filters have horrible failure rates! Personally I have had 3 of 4 go bad. Dont bet your life on berkey (youve been warned).

          • Basstard

            Are you saying junk silver is worthless ?

            • Genius

              He’s saying hes an idiot and sold ALL his silver.

        • SoapDish

          Hey BI,

          What isn’t being talked about is how the Yuan bypassed the Euro this weekend in trades. The dollar is dead, but nobody wants to tell the truth. All of this is coming to a city, town, and area near you soon enough. No one will be unscathed.

          Russia is planning a ban on the dollar. it’s not good to hold something of no value.

          JPM gets to write off over half of the 13BN they have to pay out in their taxes. F*ck the American people is the word this day and age. But we still have so many idiots that believe nothing is wrong or going to happen. Silly sheeple, trix are for the elite.

          When will the peasants march with pitch forks in hand to the WH???? Won’t happen, because the sheeple are to damn apathetic.

          B Aware, B Awake, B Alive

          • OutWest

            SoapDish — apathetic indeed

            The sheeple’s biggest dilemma would be choosing

            between a right-handed or left-handed pitch fork.

            • sixpack

              What? No designer pitch forks? This one doesn’t match my eyes…or my shoes! Does this come in mauve?

        • Anonymous

          “all the natural resources this country has????” Where did you get that one? In the 30’s, when the Great Depression struck, yeah, back then we had “all those natural resources” but not now!

          99% of all the original trees are gone, most of the redwood forest gone (to logging companies!), about 98% of all the large fish in the oceans gone (trawling equipment), the rivers and streams are polluted with toxic chemicals (mountain top removal, fracking etc.), the Pacific ocean will almost completely dead (devoid of life) in about 6 years, due to Fukushima disaster…need I go on?

          TPTB are KILLING the planet (or anyhow, most of the life on it). You need to get your facts straight and stop listeneing to Rush Limballs, Alex Jones, and the fossil fuel industry! Geesh!

          • Facebook Page

            You make it sou d like the planet is all ready dead. If that true why try to save it.

            I guess I’ll drive my hummmer to the salmon river and dump all those barrels of chemical from the barn. Make room for a big truck

            • snake eater

              man don’t do that save the fuel just pour it out on the ground where you live


              • Facebook Page

                That what we have been doing. The rain in Wa Washes it all away to the creek so nicely

                • snake eater

                  I know that was just jerking your chain a little there


          • agent provocateur

            You don’t know what the hell your talking about!

          • Peterson

            What a cry baby! There’s trees all over the place….. what a retard!

          • Peterson

            Oh ya…… I AM BRAVEHEART !!!!!!

            • Facebook Page

              I will say it for him&%#$&% &%[email protected]$# &%%%@&. And don’t you dare do it again.

              • Peterson

                Thanks buddy! Go ahead and do a KFC post now, poach some news about how pissed off and shocked the teachers are in Detroit that they got screwed…. lol!

          • Smokey

            99% of the original trees are gone?

            I’ve got news for you, there are no original trees on the planet, they died quite a while ago and were replaced by new ones.

            That virgin forest you are apparently unhappy about, just because it hasn’t been logged doesn’t mean it’s the first forest, it’s been replacing itself for millennia. When it started out, it looked just like a newly planted tree farm.

            • Unreconstructed Southron

              She obviously lives in a desert somewhere…and not here in the Southeast. Climb up to the top of a mountain and all you can see is trees. Ignorance is so sad.

            • old guy

              your correct most of the oak elm sycamore ect. die of old age at about 75 years. they negelected to harvest mature red & white oak in the Arkansas government forest. allowed them to die and rot. That allowed are Boer to flourish. The boer is killing lots of oak trees all over the Ozarks.

              • Smokey

                You mean Borers, not Boers !

          • Mal Reynolds

            Silly anonymous, liberal environmentalism (cloaked Marxism) is for kids!!


            PS Trees can be replanted. They’re a renewable resource. God made them to be burned by Man. And take a look at our coal, oil and natural gas, along with abundant farmland. We WERE a blessed country… until the Marxists were unleashed.

          • sixpack

            Of course the “original” trees are gone, nothing lives forever, especially not trees. If a forest fire doesn’t get them, bugs and fungus does. We cut down trees, but we plant more too. That’s how the earth and the life on it has survived for thousands of years.

            Out with the old, in with the new. As long as there is new to replace the old, we will survive, both as a species and a planet.

            • jr23

              if any of you watched ax men Jay Browning, owner of J.M. Browning Logging wanted to show the reforesting they do after the cutting but the network would not show it only wanted the conflict so the city people thinks logging just rapes the land

        • Lanny

          Larsen, 85, retired in 1976 when he was 48 yrs old. So even if he started working when he was 18 he would have only put in 30yrs; he’s been drawing a pension for 37yrs and counting. Does anybody else see something wrong with this picture? “Oh my, oh my. Everyone is worried. When we think about what could happen it’s scary”; and Larsen, you’re the complete innocent victim here right? Like hell you are!

          • Smokey

            You’re right, the guys pension should be taken away from him, how dare he live to be 85 years of age? Should have been taken out and shot at three score and ten.

            • Facebook Page

              Not shot. Injection would of been OK. Remember he’s in fl.

          • NONYMOUS5

            yeah, and $2K still. gimme a break. Get a job. I know lots of family that worked into their 80’s. sadly but they believed in working. not like our poster slacker.

          • Tailfin

            @ Lanny – You hit the nail on the head. I sympathize with these folks, but a little quick math got my face all scrunched up. The retirees cited in the story worked a relatively short stint and have enjoyed DECADES of freestyling on the backs of taxpayers. When you have it that good, you bear some responsibility to avoid pissing it away year after year, curtail your lifestyle a bit, and sock some away in case the gravy train ever derails. I sympathize, but not a whole lot. They’ve had it better than most of us.

          • Anon7

            Lanny: Wow, quite the unschooled fool aren’t you when it comes to economics. Most firefighters and cops can retire after just 20 years as can folks who served in the military, but it’s not enough to live on without a second job. Federal, state, and local employees who don’t work in hazardous positions can retire after 30 years. Now these are the minimums and people do work longer for bigger pensions, and many do just that. But many more take the minimum and go onto second and third careers. Federal employees, and most others, are required to pay into their pension plans so it’s not a ‘free ride’. A GS-11/10 (Federal) with 35 years of service takes home around $36,000 a year. So unless they’ve got EVERYTHING (mortgage, cars, and kids college) paid off, they get other jobs unless they’re happy living in a one-room apartment and eating Top Raman at least one meal a day.

          • sharonsj

            What about all the workers who died before they could collect their pensions?

            • Smokey

              Their estate gets the amount they contributed into the system refunded, no interest.

            • Jim Bob

              That’s called life babycakes. Aint no guarantees on tomorrow, so eat your dessert first.

        • possee

          Nothing is by accident

          Everything is by design

          This was all done to extract every last nickle …selling useless bonds and investing the pension/ retirement funds in worthless junk packaged ever so cleverly by the wall street boys..

          Hell they’ve done it in Greece,Ireland,Spain, Portugal and brought them to their knees..

          Mac is correct.. they will extract every last penny from everyone…worldwide..

          and then some..


        • JustMe


          I agree with you, there is no excuse. But then, it’s not by accident, but by design. You have to read the fine print of the last 100 years. All you see today is the final play.

          In Oregon, PERS is drain on the state, they were promised the Moon, long ago. Eventually, it will happen here, too.

          That lone bugle in the background is getting a bit louder…

          • sixpack

            Yeah, but at least we’ll have all of those wonderful bike paths and bike lanes they spent our tax dollars on! LOL.

            /sarc off/

            • JustMe


              The bike path on the Columbia is cool…the bike lanes on the streets are kinda stupid in most places.

              • sixpack

                how ’bout those yellow painted ‘zones’ at the intersections, so right-turning cars don’t run over bikers?

        • happihr

          Please Explain. California has been bankrupt since 2000. I learned that when California tried to collect taxes from my mother in law whom had died January 2000. Explain the difference between California and Detroit’s bankruptcy’s?

          • happihr

            What has happened to humanity? Trickery by the best! I see the truth “today” IF you are not having lunch with Obama or the Queen. You are a 99% ter. Don’t believe everything you think! The biggest joke believed by LOTS of Humans….Our skin color makes US who we are. hahahaha Tell that to a female. the first slave created by the elite.

        • aha

          But why should the wages of today’s workers be sucked off in such alarming lumps to people who retired 30 years ago and earn more now in benefits than many workers get? There is no way the sums add up and no way for it to continue. Many working Joes today can’t afford any sort of pension for themselves let alone paying to keep you as well.

          • jason

            And why does my son have almost one-third of his income removed to pay for welfare babies and the “disabled” who aren’t too disabled to get to walmart when the new movies are released and buy them. My brother “retired” from the military after twenty years. We live a long time…so my son will be paying his benefits for (Probably) sixty years. That is just wrong.

      • Wallimiyama

        Unfortunately…we’re all the stars of this horror-tragedy movie.

        Good thing i’m set to be one of the actors that lives through to the end of the movie. More wood to chop and stack, but I’ve already got enough to get me to spring!

        • GV

          Same here on the wood! We do have some absolutely huge pieces that are cut, but not split. They’ve only been drying for a year or two so they’ll still be tough.


          • GV

            What kind of moron hits “thumbs down” for a post like this?


            • jerrytbg

              That’s down right scary…maybe if you didn’t say moron… 🙂

              • Two2wisper

                The other state to watch is Illinois. They got a huge debt problem with there state pension fund.

              • GV


                I understand what you’re saying, but the thumbs down came on my original post, in which “moron” was never mentioned, so I’m guessing some people are sabotaging this site. I mean, I was talking about splitting wood for goodness sakes!


                • sixpack

                  They must be closet-conservationists who dislike you hurting their trees…

                • GV


                  They may be conservationists, but they’re MY trees, from MY property. They have no rights to what’s mine…


                • sixpack

                  agreed, GV.

            • Tactical

              GV, the same morons who expect us to pay for them and to get food using their EBT’s. Most male version of them are over 300 lbs and the female versions all have a long nails with rainbow colors.

              • GV

                I’m thinking you may be right, Tactical. After all, I simply posted about splitting wood in my winter stack. Infiltrators who don’t believe in self-sufficiency is what it looks like to me.


              • sixpack

                …only because their fingernails are the only part of them small enough to paint, cost effectively…

            • Smokey

              Get three good steel splitting wedges, and a good sledge. Use two of the wedges, and the third is to get the other two out!

              • GV

                I have, of course, a good axe and a wedge. But you’re right, Smokey! I need at least one more wedge to get the wedge out that gets stuck, lol.


          • Idaho Bill

            Wait for a hard freeze. Any water in the firewood will cause it to split real easy during a hard freeze

            • GV

              Thanks, Idaho Bill!

              That sounds great, but I live on the SC coast, and there are very few, if any “hard” freezes that’ll make splitting those huge logs any easier.


            • Mountain Trekker

              Idaho Bill, the wood is splitting real easy right now here in Wyoming. Trekker Out.

      • Calgacus

        I only feel a little bad for the working folks who depended on having a nice pension but arent most of them union workers who got more than the job wouldve been on the open market?

        I am pissed as hell that thisll be another burden on the working class. Sso much out of my paycheck goes to support fraud and bad money management. Where will it end? Why do I have to take my retirement cash out to buy property I dont need just to keep the government fuckers from stealing what is mine? Damn I am furious at this shit attacking us from every angle.

        How many times has Detroit gotten a bailout and havent the signs of failure been there for years? This will happen to other cities and especially to other regions and businesses where unions left their nasty fucking mark behind.

        The retirees from Detroit now face the same austerity as Greece did. Guess its a word we need to start using more here. Austerity or fucked. Pick one.

        • sharonsj

          Why do you not see that the city workers about to lose their pensions ARE the working class? They probably had to give up Social Security in order to get a city pension too! As for the government stealing from you, how come you right-wingers never get angry at the major corporations that steal from you, that don’t pay any Federal income tax, and who bribe politicians to write laws in their favor? Your paycheck is going to support corporations who don’t give a damn if you live or die.

          • Barn Cat

            No, Detroit government workers are NOT the working class. Detroit teachers average salary is $71,000 a year and get free cosmetic surgery.

            • Facebook Page

              70-000 is working class what the hell are you talking about

              • durango kidd

                FBP: $71,000 is more than twice what 51% of all Americans make. Working class? No, professional class. The same professional class that has been carrying water for the NWO for decades, spreading the “it takes a village” gospel.

                Maybe now, teachers, police, firemen and other “public servants” will get a clue as to what life will be like for the masses under Agenda 21.

                With it, WE can all be equal!!! WE can all live in a micro apartment along the light rail and shop at Wally World. Some of course, as with all police states, will be a little more equal.

                Engage your employees or be impoverished and enslaved by them, one euphemism at a time! 🙂

                • old guy

                  Teachers, police,. firemen all government workers are taking parasites. They produce nothing. Their wages must come from some producing makers being robbed(taxed) Or in the cade of borrowed money some future maker being robbed. very simply Too many relitevly high paid & benifited parasite takers and to few relatively low paid & benifited producing makers. The producers can no longer support the parasites.

            • snake eater

              Damn Barn Cat
              are those women up there that ugly,, and men


            • nevermind

              Let the teachers have the money; most of those kids are worse than wild animals. I wouldn’t teach in Detroit for a million dollars a year.

            • gluesniffer

              It is combat pay. Zombie mothers produce zombie children. Who wants to be in a room full of zombies?

            • nosuchuser

              I looked up the median salary for a detroit teacher on ( and their number is $52,066. Given that gives median and not average: 1) did a polynomail curve fit and 2) integrated the resulting polynomail to get the average. The average salary is ~ $52,957. Thats a whole lot less than the $71,000 claimed.

              A quick check for the median US income ( indicates that the median US income for 2012 is $51,017. This article also mentions an 8.3% decrease in median salary since 2007, if you back this decrease out you get a median income of ~ $55,635.

              Therefore, it is safe to conclude the the median Detroit teacher is paid slightly below the national median income. No one is getting rich doing that job.

              • Realoldcrow

                No Such User – I question your problem formulation.

                Your comparing an individual teachers salary (1 person) to the average household income (in many/most instances in the US a husband and wife both working to reach $51,017), apples to oranges.

              • El

                I retired from teaching after 30 years. My wife and I will downsize and have no mortgage. But, my pension, which was well earned, is not enough for us to live a semi-comfortable life. At 55 I am looking for work which I think many teachers do after “retirement”.

              • M

                As always we can see the retard who never had to make a payroll happen.
                Start adding in all the weekly , quarterly and yearly payments made by the boss.
                That base salary can easily be doubled when counted out of the bottom line.
                In short if you have never owned and operated a business , shut your bitch hole.

            • sharonsj

              You got that piece of crap info from Front Page Magazine. The average salary for a Detroit teacher is actually $52,000.

              • Jim Bob

                And exactly who forced those poor teachers at the barrel of gun to stay in the giant universal sphincter valve?

          • Calgacus

            Sharonsj why dont you far leflt fanatics ever read from the fact books? A business or even a corporation has to file federal income taxes and every one of them look for any way to pay less taxes. You wanna hate then hate the IRS and fed govt for imposing the burden of making money with ridiculous theft called “income tax”.

            Dont blame a corporation for lobbying for their own interests and then call it a bribe to write special laws without looking at your lover Obama and how he uses power he doesnt even have to shove socialism down our throats.

            I aint in a union so I dont know if the Detroit workers pay into social security or not but if union members dont pay into social security then they cant get it. Same holds true for the older govt workers.

            Ill bet youre one of those pot smoking OCCUPY nitwits waiting for the next sit in. You really dont have a clue but ready to play couragous activist any time you can.

            When the shit hits the fan are you gonna be ready for it or will you cower and say you cant believe those evil preppers were right.

            • Anonymous

              Oh so very true! You hit the nail on the head! I was one of those government workers who never paid into Social Security so I will never get it. However I did pay into a 401 and the government made me pay into there pension plan!

              Then through a nasty little divorce I learned how the courts and government have very nice rules and regulations to steal large chunks of your pension and 401, They even have hidden little rules to steal a percentage of your future earning. They got a plan to keep you broke and working, supported by all the free loaders how don’t have a clue! Took me 20 years to wake up.
              Keep on prepping!! The government is not anybody’s friend!

              • Vicky

                Certainly agree with you! Both my husband and I are planning on working until we can’t, or as long as the companies for which we work are still going. After my husband’s field of work went through the downturns of the ’80s and ’90s, a truly massive shake-out, he was lucky enough to find stable work in the fifth state to which we moved. I work, also, but while we have no debt, we also have no savings. It was a very lean twenty years. However, no savings means less the government can steal. They already get enough from our pay. We wish everyone luck and even with all the preps, we’re all going to need it.

            • NC joe

              Evil preppers is correct. If/when SHTF, it is preppers who will go on murderous rampages because they feel so entitled because they prepped and everyone else is not worthy by them. Little do they know, many of us see thruogh your façade of righteous and because many of you are so blatant about your murderous intentions, have preemptive actions planned if SHTF.

              • M

                No rampage here.

                All I have is some sterno , macdonalds french fry grease and a bunch of sticks with nails in them.

                O and popcorn , should be a wildly entertaining show , she epos with clubs fighting over used french fry grease

              • Mal Reynolds

                … so you feel entitled to steal from those that prepared? All in the name of ‘sharing the wealth’, right? It’s posts like this that have convinced me that liberalism is truly a mental disorder.


              • Kevin2

                NC Joe

                “it is preppers who will go on murderous rampages”

                I will do nothing of the sort. I have no ill will towards anyone. I prefer not to be hungry however a little bit of hunger would be good for me according to my cardiologist. I also prefer not to be thirsty, cold, too hot and a host of other things.

                Beware the people that do not have the comforts above. As is said, “Desperate people do desperate things”. An empty stomach can drive an individual to virtual insanity.

              • Facebook Page

                BJ JOE. You can’t preplan a trip to the toilet.

                • Larry the Guy

                  Now that there is hilarious, don’t matter who you are.

                • Peterson

                  Dang that’s funny also!

              • Calgacus

                For NC joke
                For a regular reader here you are the dumbest of all. We joke and we tell it like it is but the only way you join in is by twisting what we write or trying to insult someone. Dont work well for you does it NC joke?
                I have a god given right to protect myself and my family. And I have a right to protect what is rightfully mine. You think that we will give away our rights and our ability to protect ourselves and our property for the greater good is bullshit. You yourself practice this. You dont share and dont care. You have no ability to tolerate anything but your own radical viewpoint so how giving is that? Practice what you preach asswipe and until then you are NC joke.

              • jim in Va.

                Don’t come begging to my door when you are looking for food,you didn’t bother to prepare to survive or stock up. I’m not responsible for you. Evil? No, responsible for myself and family!

              • Smokey

                Explain to us, Joe, how people with food, protection, precious metals, fuel, etc., etc., that they have put away for adverse situations are going to go on murderous rampages.

                Seems to me they won’t have a reason to go feral, while the folks who have nothing put aside will shortly have the cause to match the effect.

                Your knowledge of human nature appears to be suspect.

            • Kevin2


              “Dont blame a corporation for lobbying for their own interests and then call it a bribe”

              “A rose by any other names smells as sweet”. Until the 1870s a corporation had to prove its existence was for the public good as the Founding Fathers intended. John D Rockefeller had that changed. The US Supreme Court ruled that a Corporation had rights just like a person. I don’t think this massing of power was what the Founding Fathers had in mind with a Corporation having the rights of a citizen. Most certainly the Corporations bribe elected officials. It took tens of millions to get Glass-Steagall removed and we now have Banks using public money to buy stocks. It took a like amount to get NAFTA and China Free Trade through. We see with our eyes what effect that has done to the industrial backbone of the US. Think the Federal Reserve Act was passed W/O bribes?

              • nosuchuser

                Correct. The Founding Father’s hated and feared corporations. The Tea Party was really a protest against a government-backed, multi-national corporation.

                Sounds just a little like the Occupy Movement, doesn’t it?

                • Calgacus

                  Maybe the old guys hated corporations but that was back in the 1780s-1790s not the 1870s like the post tried to argue.

                  I been to tea party meetings and they are more concerned with local elections and politics, and also limited government. Never seen a protest or meeting or even much platforming with corporate hate. In fact, tea party supports free markets and less government.

                • lonelonmum

                  It’s such a shame the old left/right paradim prevented the Tea Party & the Occupy movement from uniting against their common enemy. .

                  Divided we are falling as the decent inner city black family man & mechanic does his best to provide for his family while out in the country a white homesteader warns his teen daughter to stay away from that meth head keeps chasing her skirt. They both have skills to bring to the table & despise the same things (druggies wanting to get fresh with their baby girls while they are out working to provide) yet will never unite if Obama/elite has anything to do with it.

                • Kevin2

                  The law altering the status of corporations was I believe in 1868.

                • Calgacus

                  To kevin2

                  If that law is from 1868, what was the case? Could you look up more on it?

              • Calgacus

                I dont know about corporation law from the 150 years ago that predates the civil war. I looked up corporate personhood and found something that disproves what you claim. Read this and then tell me where youre right and the cases arent.

                “Since at least Trustees of Dartmouth College v. Woodward – 17 U.S. 518 (1819), the U.S. Supreme Court has recognized corporations as having the same rights as natural persons to contract and to enforce contracts. In Santa Clara County v. Southern Pacific Railroad – 118 U.S. 394 (1886), the reporter noted in the headnote to the opinion that the Chief Justice began oral argument by stating, “The court does not wish to hear argument on the question whether the provision in the Fourteenth Amendment to the Constitution, which forbids a State to deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws, applies to these corporations. We are all of the opinion that it does.”

                Rockefeller and others that rose from the industrial age put millions into working jobs. Be careful with the hand you bite. It probably fed your great grandparents and grandparents generations.

                The other rights you speak of for corporations must be the Citizens United personhood case

            • aljamo

              ” I’ll bet youre one of those pot smoking OCCUPY nitwits waiting for the next sit in.” What a load of crap statement from you Calgacus. The OWS crowd are heroes in my view. They had the nerve to stand up for free speech and equality, unlike those who are supportive of the status quo, such as yourself. Who cares if they were pot smoking? Is there something wrong with that? You come accross as one who abhors justice and freedom, just like the present entire far right government that you falsely identify as liberal.

              • Calgacus

                aljamo you got ripped a new one, didnt you.
                Some of you who sit on the sidelines and watch the tv news thought what you did. You know how many of those Occupy fools were given a free ride there? And how many got paid for every day being there.?
                If you think I come across as anti justice or freedom you proved you dont know shit. And I aint on the far right asshole.

            • doug

              They will never say the preppers are right. They will look at the desolation caused by democrat policies and say “look what the republicans did to us”.

            • sharonsj

              You don’t seem to understand that because most corporations pay little or no income tax, YOU will have to make up the slack. And the Detroit pensioners who lose their money, and have no SS, will go on welfare–which YOU will end up paying for. P.S. I AM a prepper.

              • Jim Bob

                I think it’s you who don’t understand that the whole house of cards is coming down in the near future for pensions and social security. I imagine 25 years from now having my grandson sitting on my knee asking ” What did YOU do in the great foodstamp war grandpa?” To which I’ll reply, ” Thinned the herd boy,helped to thin the herd.”

          • DumbDude

            In my mind it is one little difference. Corporations that produce a product absolutely 100% rely on the fact that people have to want to pay them for their product (I don’t know about wall street). A person can decide they don’t want to drink coca cola, or drive a gas vehicle, pay for netflix, or buy an apple i pad. And they part ways. If I decide I don’t want to fund the national endowment for the arts, or the defense budget that goes to maintaining our nuclear arsenal, well the IRS puts me in jail. If I decide I don’t want to follow my state laws, I get thrown in jail. If I decide I don’t want to be in jail and try to walk away I get shot dead.

            Corporations rely on cosentual agreements (although Obamacare has now changed that). The government does not. When the government decides it can afford to pay its workers more than it actually can, we pay the taxes to allow it to do so, until after taxing and taxing and taxing; all the productive entities leave. Then surprise, oh we can’t really afford the unaffordable. Forgive us if we don’t morn the outcome we on the right have been seeing and warning of all along.

          • Not so Much

            “the major corporations that steal from you” what?
            “Your paycheck is going to support corporations” Huh?

            “corporations…that don’t pay any Federal income tax,”

            You Marxists are always spouting that the rich and the corporations never pay taxes (despite that they pay 90+% of taxes in this country), so just whom do you mouth breathers think are paying all the income taxes – the poor and middle class? I thought the corps are stealing it all?

            You are literally so stupid, I’m amazed you can breathe without being constantly reminded. Something tells me you make a good penis receptacle and nothing more.

            • ENFP

              The big corporations lobby for regulations they can afford but smaller companies cannot. So we end up with just a few major corporations controlling everything instead of a free market economy.

            • sharonsj

              According to investigative reports that looked into what the top 65 corporations pay, 25% of all American companies pay NO federal income tax. The rest that do pay, pay 8-12%. As usual, you idiot right-wingers don’t understand that if the corporations don’t pay their fair share then YOU have to make up the difference. The poor and middle classes now pay a greater percentage of their earnings in all sorts of taxes, but it’s not enough to cover the needs of the country–especially with Congress giving plenty of free money to the corporations.

              • Jim Bob

                Dammit you’re right Sharon! Those goddamn corporations should all be put out of business like that idiot in Venezuela will wind up doing. After all, the proletariat MUCH prefer stores with no inventory for sale at any price because that’s more FAIR to the great dumbed down masses. Forward Soviet! YES WE CAN,but…..

              • 10% Off

                Sharon –
                You are a typical liberal nutfuck! It’s always someone else’s fault that YOU are a failure! The tax laws are in place and the corporations take advantage of the LAW. If you don’t like the laws, lobby to CHANGE them. Us “right-wing idiots” are fighting to save what is left of this country after YOUR left wing criminal congress took us over the cliff. When it all falls apart mostly because of liberal fucktards like you, you will sit around and blame the right. How pathetic and miserable your life must be. Always someone else’s fault….

          • Gman79

            Those “major corporations” would be the SAME ONES that took 70 billion of our money so that they could pay those union dead-beats a “working class” salary. And Detroit was run by the demoncratic idiots – and minority idiots at that – who bled the city dry whilst filling their own pockets. Check it out, read about the ex-mayor in jail.
            And these pensioners LOVED it when they got an automatic raise and the poor stiff working for ABC printing didn’t get a raise for five years. C’mon – accruing vacation and sick time, overtime=higher pensions, selling unused vacation to make your last 3 year average income bigger for pension purposes? All kinds of shenanigans they loved, and now they pay the price. I cry not.

            • nosuchuser

              The average police pension for Detroit is ~ $30K per year. (

              If you assume that this number, and police salary, lines up with the teacher’s salary I detailed above that means that pension is about 57% of their working income.

              In addition, most state and city retirement programs do not contribute to social security. Therefore, that income is their entire retirement income (not counting whatever IRA savings they managed to accrue).

              Since the current financial planning advice says that you need 80% (sorry, no link handy) of your working income for a ‘comfortable’ retirement it looks like they’re going to get hosed.

              And this was before the bankruptcy cuts their earned benefits to nothing…

            • Slick One


            • sharonsj

              Teachers, police, firemen, sanitation–these are city workers, they didn’t work for a corporation. So what major corporations are you talking about that took 70 billion of “your” money?

              • Jim Bob

                No they didn’t work for a corporation. They all thought they were gonna have a sweet ride on the taxpayers back for 40-50 years after retiring at 55. But then a bomb called reality blew up in their faces, and now the tears begin to fall like so many raindrops. Liberal dreams are sweet while they last but the bitch is when you wake up.

          • unknown suspect

            sharonsj is the kind of person that will show up to the door, cold and hungry wanting a handout when it all falls down. Instead of whining, sharon needs to pull her head out of her ass and get a clue.

            This site is about planning for SHTF. We know what’s going on, crying about it is not going to fix it. Plan for the worst and hope for the best.

            So sharon.. If you think the “gov’ment” is going to help you out, LOL think again. You had best have your own supplies stacked high and stacked deep. Because in this reality, there will be no phone no help. Need help? Look in a mirror.

            • sharonsj

              Again, you assume that I don’t know what I’m talking about or that I am not a prepper. I am very educated with a very high I.Q. and I have literally read more than 10,000 books. I have plenty of stuff squirreled away, especially books on alternative medicine, herbs, plants, etc. You’ll probably have to come to me for info….

              • Jim Bob

                Prepper or not is irrelevant lady. It’s your idiotic communist ranting that nobody wants to buy. How long is that gonna take for you to figure out? I mean,with your high IQ and everything……

              • Betty

                Educated does not equal smart. You are an educated fool

          • Swinging on a star


            Guess what Sharon, the major corporations get away with it because of the dear leader, remember, the buck stops with him, right? The regime is in bed with the banksters and the progressive socialist psychopaths are in charge of everything, even the children.

            The regime doesn’t give a damn if you live or die unless of course you are a degraded little bottom feeder who is used and brainwashed to vote for the regime, hell they even bus them to the polls and give them five bucks to get on the bus.

            Why is it that you never mentioned the dear leader in your assessment? Are one of those who give the liar in chief a free pass on everything?

            • snake eater



              • sixpack

                …convert them into what? A door stop?

                • 10% Off

                  Sixpack – I’d say she and most liberals are already the level of doorstops! LOL….Not good for much of anything else. But this one here…she is a smart doorstop! According to her….Sorry, I hate liberals.

              • Highspeedloafer

                You’ll never convert her, she has been spouting the same drivel for many years.

                • sharonsj

                  And you have been repeating whatever you hear on Fox or Rush, or copy what you’ve read on sites like Front Page Mag, without ever checking to see if the info is correct. It’s easy when you only hang out with people who agree with you but when somebody like me comes along, all you can do is call me names. If I understand “not so much” correctly, he is calling a 70-yr-old woman a whore.

                • Jim Bob

                  I agree with you Sharon there’s no need for name calling.

            • Kevin2

              “The regime is in bed with the banksters”

              And the one before it and before that and before that. They got the US by the gonads in 1913 and they ain’t letting go willingly.

          • jerrytbg

            You best get in line or you won’t get monthly snippet…you dog!!! 🙂

          • Cellar spider

            I’m slightly torn on this.

            On one hand, I’m a bit embarrassed that our governments are breaking contractual promises to people who fulfilled their duties.

            On the other hand, I watched for years while government workers went home at 3:00 pm while I was working 60 for 40. Unfair I always thought to myself.

            Plus, there is always that well known answer to the question, “What’s orange and sleeps three?”

            Answer: A State Truck

            Thinking about it more….I don’t really care. Government workers at any level have had it too good for too long.

            • TJK

              So your a socialist; Lennon communist? Your the authority on work weeks, amount of pay and vacation someone should get? Julia Roberts makes too much? Dish Network installer makes too much? NFL kickers make too much? Where does end? It all ends where you decide? Based on your work ability? Bill Gates is worth 50 Billion, all he did was steal from Steve Jobs to make his money. Is he over paid? Who in your world is paid EXACTLY CORRECT and works the PERFECT amount of hours?

              • 10% Off

                TJK –
                I don’t think it is always how much a govt worker is paid. I think what pisses off most private sector workers who pay their salaries is, the PERKS. Very good pay in most cases, excellent, usually free, benefits. Almost impossible to get fired. Benefits for LIFE. Pensions, in many cases the employee did not pay much, if anything, in to. Every other week there is some sort of holiday they get paid for that the average Joe does not. You have to admit, govt workers have it pretty damn good.

                My sister works for the govt. I know the PERKS! I had to listen when the govt shut down how horrible it was to lose a few weeks of pay. Then they all got together and applied for unemployment for those 2 weeks. Yes they did, look it up! But since it would have fallen on the states, the states put a stop to it immediately.

                I think, too, it sucks when the govt continues to vote themselves raises. Someone said above about reality kicking in for Detroit. Funny, how the corrupt Democraps that ran Detroit into the ground are long gone with the booty they stole from the taxpayers. The Detroit pensioners should be hunting them down and collecting their payments. It’s no one’s fault but their own for voting these corrupt turds into office and not seeing that the gravy train could not continue forever. They should have had a back up plan.

                My brother worked for a large private company and when they merged with another large private company, their pensions were wiped out. He worked there almost 20 years and it was GONE! Did anyone feel sorry for him? He was smart enough to have invested in other areas. United Airlines did the same thing with their union workers. Bankruptcy = pensions gone! Why when it happens to govt workers, it’s unfair? Life is not fair my friends. If you don’t take responsibility for your own future, you may not have one.

            • Hunter


              Nice one!

              Did ya hear about the coming massive layoffs of state D.O.T. workers, nationwide?

              Yep ’tis true, the Japanese have invented a sign & a shovel, that will stand up by themselves.

            • Me here

              Cellar – I know what you mean… torn. They are in trouble, which isn’t good, but at the same time I’m thinking that I could threaten a strike if my employer doesn’t pay me 3 times what I make now, but if the business can’t support it, the business can’t support it!! Simple math.

            • Betty

              We always called them big yellow campers.

          • agent provocateur

            Yea, these so called “Working Class” are overpaid union workers .And as my memory serves me they were the beneficiary of most of those government bailout funds and stimulus packages ect. They have been living large for a long time. Although I don’t rejoice at their suffering I don’t have a lot of sympathy either

          • Jim Bob

            Sharon SJ, as far as entities that don’t give a damn whether you live or die, let me say ” If you like your death panels, you can keep your death panels!” Now we are coming to see what the true cost of union votes for the democrat party really are. What the tragic part is that taxpayers of all different points of view will have had to foot the bill. Enjoy your negro healthcare Sharon, what precious little they’ll spoon out to you before they determine you’re no longer” cost effective” to treat.

          • Clackston

            Sharon, Maybe one or two of those large sized Fleet’s Enemas would help you feel better hon! Just Sayin…..

          • Mountain Trekker

            sharonsj, I am A Right Winger. But it does amaze me that so many on this site want to attack working people,whether they are Policemen, Teachers, Firemen or Auto Workers. Who do some on this site call working people? I have no idea! I have always had the same respect for the trash hauler as the doctor, if a person works their whole life 40 to 50 years, 8,10 or 12 hours a day 5 or 6 days a week just to make a living, why would we attack him, what ever his profession. Why don’t we just stick to verbally attacking politicans and professional welfare cheats. Trekker Out. Si vis pacem, para bellum

            • snake eater

              I`m with you on that
              as long as we fight among ourselves we are at the politicans mercy


          • Jeff

            Why sharonsj, you say right-winger as if that were a bad thing! Corperations don’t pay taxes, they collect it, it is the consumers who pay in the form of higher prices. Get a clue, the government is stealing from us. A corporation can NOT make me buy their product (except,if it is mandated by the Federal government). And do you think that the government gives a damn if you live or die? Hint, hint, they don’t. Go study your 20th Cent history.

        • RedGypsy

          Yes I agree the sucked on the government teet at the rest of us hardworking peons and now the bill has come due with interest.

          There is an old Welsh proverb.
          The best translation I can give it is:
          Fritter in summer — starve in the winter.

          My ole grandad the welsh speaker always translated it:
          F*** around and soon you won’t be around!


      • Hammerun

        Detroit is a sterling stunning example of democratic leadership and progressivism. Democrats have ruled Detroit for decades, their way and look at what they’ve ended up with. You can bet that those that caused this fucked up mess are way out of it getten fat and sucking up martinis on Detroit’s dime. They got theirs and sorry, but fuck you! Sucks to be YOU!!
        That’s what democrats do, fucks everybody around them and gives the elution that they are fighting for the people.
        The next election, if they have had more than three terms, vote for the other guy and get rid of them.

        • skekptic

          Hey man, I’m with you but elution? It’s getting late. No harm no foul.

      • Anonymous

        Anyone else notice how young the people were when they retired. People retiring in their forties and younger no wonder they are going bankrupt.

      • durango kidd

        An 80% cut in pensions? No surprise here. After the S&L debacle in 1987 when the Gangster Bangsters had their crony capital stooges in Congress pass legislation to wipe out the Savings & Loans RETROACTIVELY to capture all deposits and the mortgage business, I recognized the attack coming from the NWO.

        It was my wake up call.

        I wondered what was next, and that Still Small Voice was unequivocal: “pensions”. This has been a long time coming but it was planned a long time ago. expect a lot more of the same. One more reason for the PTB to create a giant government pension plan, take your money, and dole it out to you on a monthly basis.

        Oh, that’s right, its called: Social Security.

        Engage the enemy or they will enslave and impoverish US one euphemism at a time, while giving themselves a Cadillac health care plan and golden parachutes.

        Kill the FED. Death to the New World Order. 🙂

      • California Resident

        This is very relevant to the topic being discussed:

        “If you can’t stand over it and defend it physically with an assault rifle, it probably isn’t really yours.”

        This includes your retirement account (IRA / 401k / bank account).

      • Billy Idol

        Note that one retiree retired in 1976 and another retired with a “disability” in 1977. How long can such a system stay together when these people have been collecting pensions longer than they “worked”?

        • Clackston


          I guess up until about now…???

          • Me here

            Sad, funny and TRUE!

      • Billy Idol

        Hey, all you “civil servant” schmucks–Don’t be mad at the city, county, etc. The real fault lies with your own union negotiators. They accepted promises made during contract negotiations even though the promises made during the last five contract negotiations had not been kept. A line from “Animal House” applies here–“You fucked up. You trusted us”

      • BigB

        For those people the SHTF. We veterans are next on the chopping block. Commissaries are being closed where retired and disable veterans get a discount on food etc. Medical care is being rationed and health records are up for sale. If it sounds to good, it probably is.


        • WhoWuddaThunkIt

          You Veterans are part of the cause of the problems this country is in, as you all suck off the Government dole, you get subsidized taxes, then you go shop on the base and pay no local sales taxes or contribute to the community. You spent your lives fighting the NWO Phony Wars, committed Genocide and destabilized the world as you supported the rape of 3rd world countries natural resources and propped up the Dictators that allowed the rape, and ten you come home, and you call yourselves heros, now crying that your damn freebee commissaries are closing. Go F yourself.

          • JustMe

            Um, no.

            Fuck YOU.

          • Facebook Page

            Fuck You

            • Screwyall

              Oh what the fuck… Fuck all ya’ll!!!

          • Me here

            What JustMe and Facebook said. Oh, and I sure our upstanding veterans would say “You’re welcome”. After all, they fought wars so you and other leftist shills can come into these sites and make fools of yourselves!!!

            • old guy

              Those idiots who joined the army may have thought they where fighting for our freedoms. in fact all they where and are is cannon fodder for the UN NWO and agenda 21 folks.

              • JustMe

                People who have been fed star-spangled lies all thier lives generally believe they are doing the right thing by serving in the military. It is true, that for the last 100 years, our people have been fighting for banksters.

                In any case, in their hearts, they believed they were standing up for your Freedom. Like most Veterans, I see it was a complete waste of time and effort. I have known a lot of good people who staked their lives for this country, only to be pissed on. We all wonder, why did we bother to stand up for the Freedom of people like you?

                People like you, “old guy”, and “WhoWuddaThunkIt”, so richly deserve the slavery you are going to end up with.

                • old guy

                  All those who have willingly joined up cant complain they vollentiered. I was drafted and given a free vacation in southeast asia. and it was not protecting any us freedoms or defending the counstition. All those deaths on both sides where all for nothing. I might die fighting but Ill never be a slave.

                • JustMe

                  Old Guy,

                  My apologies, but, please do not call our Veterans “idiots”. For decades, we have all been fed a steady diet of lies. Most sincerely believed they were doing the right thing. I maintain they every right to complain, after having laid their lives on the line; whether they were really defending anyone’s Freedom, or not.

                  It is only clear later, that we have been lied to, and what has been done was really not for the US, or any really good reason, other than to extend the bankster control of the world.

              • Facebook Page

                Fuck you too

              • old guy

                Sorry I will call them idiots. I seen my share of gung ho idiots back in the 60,s. I was drafted and knew that the excuse we where fighting communism was a big lie. anyone who believes some lying recuter is indeed a idiot. anyone who believes they are protecting the counstition and US freedom is a idiot. Its mosty losers who cant find a job who join the armed forces. If there where plenty of jobs they would have to bring back the draft. any way my name calling has caused you to think about it differently. I don’t agree with politically correctness bullcrap. Its supposively taboo to lamblast the armed forces, firemen, police, teachers and their ilk. Well they are all taking parasites they produce nothing. and they are the proponents and future enforcers of the UN NWO and agenda 21.

            • YH

              At the risk of playing the devil’s advocate, I would say closing the military commissaries could very well be another ploy by Obama to drive another wedge between military personnel and civilians. It has the feel to me of another front in the class warfare running battle.

              The government can spend hundreds of millions of dollars on a “healthcare” website that doesn’t work, but it cannot or will not keep the military commissaries open? Really? If the military commissaries must close I think the cafeterias in the Senate and House of Representatives should also be discontinued to save taxpayer money.

              I don’t begrudge military personnel the things that make life easier for them, because when the shit hits the fan, and it will, I want as many of them on our side as possible.

              • JustMe

                obummer is also trying to shut down Stars And Stripes, the only unbiased open voice the military has, though it costs a pittance to the military. They are also looking at taking away internet connections from military bases, after all, can’t have military personell looking at the world for themselves, instead of through the eyes of the propaganda ministries…

          • newbee

            Your a big piece of shit…

          • BigB

            Well whodathunkit, that appears to be the view from someone I will bet who has never, NEVER, done anything for anyone anywhere whether it be right or wrong in the end. Mom must be real proud of you. Cause I’ll bet know one else is including your small self. Mommy’s little basement boy is what you are and you know it. Time to throw away that stained Miley Cyrus poster you have on the cellar wall. Time to stop using the plastic sheets on your bed and buy some big boy underwear. Time to start using a real glass instead of the plastic one mommy has made you use for the last 23 years. Don’t you dare to step on the carpert with food or drink! Sad, sad boy with big boy dreams.


      • ready down under

        Is Detroit the first domino???


      • t

        So why not follow our leaders and rack up debt we never intend to pay off? If they can do it without any fear of punishment what is keeping any of us from doing it?

        Besides, they can’t put you in jail and the banks will have to write it off

      • Patriot One

        Once all the big cities in blue states start declaring bankruptcy it will be the excuse the federal government uses to nationalize pensions. Furthermore there will be millions of city, county, municipals, state and union employees begging for it!!!

        I know this may sound callous but all these employees participated in the collective bargaining process which since the late 60’s got too sweet a deal. It was never intended for government employees to retire as 1% er’s, but that is exactly what has been happening for those that entered civil service since the 70’s.

        At this point I will never get to retire, however my taxes will have contributed to the retirement and benefits of about 4 government employees. What’s fair about that???

      • Anonymous

        Did anyone note the age of these people when they “retired?” They knew (or should have) it was too good to last forever….they should be happy that it lasted, for them, for nearly forty years. I have zero sympathy for them.

    2. Ugly

      I cannot wait for the taxman cometh.

      I will say I got no money cause I just got ‘Vaporized’.

      • ready down under

        I’m in a jam Ugly – does one keep paying taxes honestly and religiously knowing it is only going to pissed down the drain by TPTB supporting people who have no intention of working and contributing to the overall well being of my country or do I become someone who leeches on the system too, to prep for the future of me and my 2 kids. I hate the thought of being a tax cheat and if I become one and the collapse occurs in my lifetime will I be a part of the cause? If the collapse occurs I could live with it by reasoning what I did was justified for the long term good. If it doesnt I will have sunk to the level of the parasites. Tough choice huh?


        • Ugly


          Use the Jesus approach, ‘Pay to Caesar what belongs to Ceasar’.

          Because we are workers and we love our perspective countries, we must pay Ceasar what is owed.

          Now after Ceasar. Prep. Because the monies are yours.

          What I have found worse than taxes is my own debt. I have reduced my debt by about 40% today versus about 4 years ago. Today I earn less money but have more take-home pay because of debt reduction.

          So, pay Ceasar because we are true Patriots.
          and, reduce debt for more disposable income.

          Then think of your family and kids as you say. What I have is theirs. My home is theirs. I will build another one and carry that debt.

          When the Day comes, I will be like Percy Cerutty, wearing only running shorts and carrying the sword to do my best against the commie NWO.

          On the freeloaders? Don’t worry about them. At least we have some control in our lives, they have none because they are 100% dependent.

          To the World’s Preppers. We are One !!!!

          • nosuchuser

            The difference between a rich man and a poor man? A poor man PAYES interest and a rich man COLLECTS interest.

            Our only debt is a, very low, mortgage. Everything else, I either pay cash or ‘launder’ through a rewards card which is payed off every month.

            It’s a great thing when your credit card company calls you a deadbeat (because you don’t carry a balance)!

            • Mountain Trekker

              nosuchuser, There is another saying. Everyone gets their ice, the rich man gets his in the summer and the poor man gets his in the winter. Trekker Out. Semper Paratus!

    3. truth

      And so it begins……

      • YH


        >>”And so it begins……”<<

        Isn't that the truth?

        There are no more good choices left, only bad choices.

        • sixpack

          Maybe so, but at least we still have choices, whether we like them or not.

    4. drillerman09

      This is what and will happen, when liberals control everything. Detroit is just the testing ground….get ready for this to be a common occurrence.

      • VRF

        agreed, they just opened the flood gates

        glad as hell im not owed any money from that city, ’cause aint no one getting any of it now, and if they don’t think that’s going to hurt that economy and that area and those businesses ,, ha hammer time!

        this will be a snowball headed for hell, should wake up a shit load of can only hope

        • Barn Cat

          Detroit defaulting on their pensioners won’t hurt the Detroit area. None of them live there. You’d have to be crazy to live in Detroit if you didn’t have to.

          • VRF

            Its not only the pensions that they will default on..there are a lot of companies , contractors owed money from the City of D , and they aint gonna get theirs either.

            • VRF

              example:what do you think would happen to a company that did like 350,000$ job for the city..and cant cover that kind of loss? Jobs..gone etc..

              Now think of it in terms of million dollar contracts that wont be getting paid… theres going to be people put out of work because of this and companies that will me.
              My company couldn’t take a hit like that

              • hammerhead

                and lets not forget the people who believed in detroit.
                you know , the bond holders , these folks will be crushed.

                • Facebook Page

                  People rarely buy bond. But I agree the fund holding them will now short their holders.

          • Horse'sass

            Hmm. Florida, better look out. This impacts you.

        • VRF

          Also : realize this.

          Now that Detroit has done it, think of how many other cities will be following in its foot prints very soon.

          • hammerhead

            they havent done anything yet.
            All the other “at risk” municipalities are watching this unfold real close .
            It has the potential to open the bakruptcy floodgates !
            Just sit back and watch the show, make some popcorn and relax in a comfy chair .
            This will all get real ugly in comeing months as the drowning unions fight for air.

            • maddog


            • Billy Idol

              Looks like the chick (don’t remember her name) predicting a wave of municipal defaults was just a little off in her timing.

      • sharonsj

        Another Rush fan who thinks liberals control everything. We live in a fascist state where the corporations control everything. The workers are being screwed while vulture capitalists get to buy Detroit for pennies on the dollar. Bain Capital must be thrilled.

        • hammerhead

          if we were in a true facsist state the government would be running those nasty corporations , not capitalists.
          sorry sharon..

          • Tactical

            hammer….the decline and the degradation of the country is due to the meager of the Government and the Corporations. Couple examples are the 3 big Auto industries, GE and many others. The truth is the real capitalism was destroyed by careful planning.

            While “sharonsj” has a liberal tendency in his/her comment however the corporate fascism is a true statement specially with multi national corps. The TARP $ for AIG, GE and Auto industries is a prime example of Corporate fascism since in a real capitalism the non efficient businesses should fail so the efficient ones can survive and strive.

          • nosuchuser

            I’m afraid you’ve got it backwards. Fascism is where the corporations run the state, socialism is where the government runs the corporations.

            No what system do you honestly think we live in?

            • Tactical

              nosuchuser…Book wise you are correct. However we are dealing with the same minds who started Marxist Leninism and are the master minds of commingling the “isms” to just destroy the mankind who are not part of their tribes. We are at the point in history that we should think outside of the box since the master planners are very capable of fooling the majority of the population leading to their final slavery as we are witnessing.

              As far as what system we live in……I can’t come up with an specific name. How about something like: “””GFRIBCB’ism”””


              Hmmmm, I may need a patent for this new “ism”.

          • Kevin2


            Your confusing communism with fascism. The State runs the businesses in communism. The businesses run the State under fascism.

        • drillerman09

          Sharon- keep spewing the liberal anti-business drool…..typical commie liberal leftist socialist crap….please educate yourself before you spout off….on a positive note, I’m glad your here. You may be able to learn something. However, like most liberals you don’t pay attention until it his your own pocket.

          • drillerman09


        • Not so Much

          hmm, Corporations control everything do they?

          C’mon, you’re an enlightened leftist. Search your thoughts. turn the lights on, honey.

          Please expand on

          1. George Soros.
          2. GE.
          3. leftist global warming alarmism making EPA policy and redistributes govt money to leftist green energy scams.
          4. unions
          5. ACORN
          6. Center For American Progress

          Lemme say this one slowly…
          7. g.o.v.e.r.n.m.e.n.t run and controlled healthcare.
          8. leftist progressivism and their philosophy of controlling e.v.e.r.y.t.h.i.n.g. thru bureaucracy and regulation. And please cite how this philosophy directly PUTS companies and govt in bed together so they can suck each other off.

          So how are the workers getting screwed by a company? Is it because leftist unions and leftist govt (with their threats of boycotts, walk outs and onerous regulation) scammed all the stupid little people with lies of unfunded future largess for votes now?

          Or was it just some company’s schemes?

          C’mon, you’re supposed to be enlightened and yet all you spout is DUUUHHHHH REPUBLICANS. smh, idiot.

        • newbee

          Sharonsj= TROLL

          • sixpack

            I don’t think sharonsj is as much a “troll” as someone with different views trying to “wake people up”. We all do the same thing, don’t we? Haven’t we all tried to present someone with a view that they don’t hold? We got about the same in return, didn’t we?

            Sharonsj has her facts skewed, but she’s really just trying to do the same thing we are—she’s trying to wake other people to her way of thinking.

            To Sharonsj, I’d like to say one thing—I used to think not too unlike you, but I started looking deeper and deeper until I figured out the truth as I see it. You’re on the right track, you’re questioning things and looking for somewhere to put the blame, you just need to look a little closer at the details and think it through a little more thoroughly.

            You’ll get there, keep looking. Good luck.

            • mountain man 6-1

              @ sixpack…..Although I don’t remember if you are male/female (not that it really matters)I must admit that I really do agree with you on MOST thing’s !! And you seem to put in word’s what I’m trying to say . I’ve always had trouble expressing myself , but you say it for me !Keep up the good work , and I’ll keep giving ya the green thumbs !! Thanks …….mm

              • sixpack

                You’re a gentleman and a scholar, Mtn Man.

        • Facebook Page

          For the most part liberal made the laws that these capitalists follow. Just like obamafuck they didn’t read what they passed.

          Show me where they broke the law and then you have an argument.

        • maddog

          shamoronsj, your in the wrong place dipshit. liberal brains do not function properly therefore any comment from you is useless. best advice, go play with your pee pee and dream.

        • agent provocateur

          Liberals DO control everything- if you were honest about it. Wall Street Bankers-Liberal
          Large Corp Exectutive Donors -Liberal
          Majority of universities/Professors -Liberal
          Public School systems-Liberal
          But don’t let the facts ruin the taste of your strawberry kool-Aid

          • nosuchuser

            Funny. It seems that your claiming that there is a relationship between ‘liberals’ and education, financial success, and personal wealth.

            I would have to agree, you are correct. After all, its us ‘godless, commie, blue’ states that prop up the ‘god-fearing, free enterprise’ states…..

        • Jim Bob

          Sharon SJ, now the gubmint is trying to think of ways to make Detroit economically attractive for companies to come in and set up shop there again. The solution is ridiculously easy, dust off a couple neutron bombs.

        • Clackston


          Why don’t you move to North Korea where you can live out your Communist ideas and feel at home with the rest of the starving slaves?

        • Kevin2


          Its certainly fascist at the very top and communist below that. The John Birch Society figured this out about 4 decades ago when they were puzzled by the all too frequent cooperation between the capitalist and communists. Its all about control.

      • Them Guys

        This is what happens when back 40 yrs ago folks were worrying due to massive non stop msm reports of “Killer Africanized Bees” comming up thru mexico to enter america soon…..And while all them detroiters and union worker liberals kept voting dems, and supporting every anti white, pro affirmative action aka reverse racisim, dem libs plan one after another…..

        None were paying attention to the True african threats! While watching for “killer african bees” arivals, they totally Ignored that the lib dems were overtaking Detroit, lock stock and barrel with African apelike city wreckers.

        And nothing was able to convince them detroit fools that a dem vote was a vote for african takeover with help from kommie unions. They voted straight ticket dems every election, kept re electing black mayors every time.

        Detroit Was Ground Zero for the nation wrecker kommie khazar group. And african blacks was their Main Weaponery of destruction of all that whiteys built and paid for, for several hundred years. Stupid white lib dem voters and union members continous votes for their OWN demise and destructions!

        I have a close family member that is a retired detroit Union Journyman Trades worker,,,25 yrs ago I asked him “What “IF” Kommie dem libs and african blacks agendas end up Ruining and/Or Stealing YOUR Pension cash promiced by Unions You believe can never be wrong”?

        The answer was “Oh come On! That can never happen as the folks in control of Detroit workforce pensions plans are educated to invest properly and Mich has Laws to see that won’t occure”….I again asked “Are You sure it cant happen that way when you get Old and need cash most”?

        Again I was told that I was stupid to dream up such scenarios that are NEVER going to occure!

        Untill Dec 3rd 2013 when…Yes…It…DID…Occure eh!

        PS: YES retired detroit union workers recieve BOTH City paid union pensions AND Soc sec Both every month as soon as old enough to file a soc sec claim(age 65 yrs old?).

        Both aded together paid aprox $3000 per month, untill Now, that after 50 yrs of BRD, IE=Black Run Detroit, was finally able to finish their kommie plan of city wrecking, which leads to Nation wreckers, of which the REAL “Hidden Hand” clan/Tribe of Kommies are really Up to and behind.

        What theft-riots-and gasoline+Matches were not able to acomplish in detroit….Unions+Lib dems+African Blacks+Their evil Master race, hidden leadership kommies WERE!

        • Rastus

          Wow you sho do tells it like it be! Why if i dinint know better i be thankin’ you hatin’ a negroes like me. I is not gwine put up wif it and i will tell Obama on you.. So dehr it ia!!

          • Tactical

            Rastus….did you just landed from Kenya?

          • Them Guys

            Rastus: Well I figured no matter What us white folk and Patriots does “They” are going to call us all racists and antisemite Nazis anyways…So we may as well Go All Out!

        • hammerhead

          Them guys – you have left out the muzzies.
          Im not goin on a racist rant , but until they showed up and pushed the agenda of islam with help from farrakan the black folks in detroit were mostly good people.
          I think that before you blame this on race , you should investigate IDEOLOGY .
          I wont sympathize with any of it , just pointin out that alot of factors contributed here.
          And it was mostly corrupt big government.

        • Hunter

          Them guys- (hardcore humor per Detroit/Africa)

          Just so you know:
          Per different species (scientific) identification and reference of such:

          Amerikwan blacks = Australopithecus-Cocainus

          True African Blacks = Australopithecus-Kalashnikov


          Genus characteristics:

          Prone to unpredictable violence, lying, laziness, fascinated by bouncing-flying balls and cheap ghetto ‘thumpa-thumpa’ rhythms accompanied with idiotic rhyming jabber and something termed:




          Damn near anything, but no chicken, watermelon or container of alcohol, within a 20mile radius is safe!


          Civilized history:

          Species has yet to be domesticated, nor do they make good pets!
          Attached warning labels are banned by govt decree therefore, its buyer BEWARE!


          Known mating rituals:

          Nothing breathing is safe!

          The male gender sometimes ‘cry profuse tears’ during sex.
          Scientific analysis reveals that pepper-spay is usually the root cause.


          Intelligence Quotient:

          On par with/about the same as turnips!



          -NONE FOUND-


          Current status:


          • Tactical


          • OutWest

            I’ll bet the ghosts of the antebellum South
            are rolling on the floor laughing their asses off

            • Them Guys

              HUNTER: In Other words the Most Usless race ever created right?

            • Hunter

              Yes sir, OutWest!

              -(T’was humor w/ an admixture of eyewitness/close proximity truth)-

              I am indeed, a son of the Southland.

              Thumbs up and all the best to you!

        • Sorry_Ur_Wrong

          Sorry to break it to you, but NO, city police do not pay into SS and they are not entitled to receive same.

        • sixpack

          Well, black mayors didn’t work out so well for Detroit, so we put one in the white house? Damn, it’s true—people just don’t learn from their mistakes…

    5. Ready & Waiting

      If you did not put any of your money into a Retirement account and were paid well since you worked for a Government entity. Stop crying the FREE Ride is over!! when the US Government folds it is game on!! There will be BLOOD in DC No politicians will be safe anywhere.

      • GV

        They won’t be in DC; they’ll be in their multi-million-dollar estates with the best security taxpayers’ money and insider trading can buy…


        • newbee

          Or in their underground cities they build on our dime.

        • Tactical

          GV….I started to play the song by DOORS….. I like the part Jim Morrison is screaming: They got the guns…we got the numbers. Oh wait.. most of us have the guns too.

          • JustMe

            “This is the end…my only friend…the end…” Jim Morrison, The Doors

            That song is both haunting, and awesome.

    6. Tactical

      This is the end result for a state under the influence of the Unions – Welfare recipients CEO’s of junk auto manufacturers under TARP, the hell hole of the EBT users and the fruit of affirmative action MAYORS who were nothing but criminals.

      • Calgacus

        There you are. Thats what I see it as too. And well be paying even more for their free ride.

      • Them Guys

        We came here from times of old

        And now have taken full control

        We’ve spent a century training blacks

        Ever since Our Ancestors, brought them here for that

        Now its almost time, for them to break Your Backs

        You think you know, whats up

        Every day you see us on your tv set

        Yet so far few has guessed us yet

        You believe like You we are whites

        Even though a closer look reveals the fright

        That dwells Deep within Our Souless Eyes

        When shall you awaken

        What more will it take

        Heres a clue just for You

        Khazars of the nation wrecker bankster set

        Now take a closer look at that TV Set

        When every day and every night all you see is More of them kommies that came from…..

        THE SOVIET!!

        • Rastus

          By de way uuurrah is you black?

          • Tactical

            Rastus, “Them Guys” is not black as you can see from his sophisticated writing skills. However if you don’t understand his writings, my advise to you is to call National Geographic and ask them if you can use one of their staff who knows the sign language for apes to translate the comments for you.

    7. Blue

      I do feel sorry for them. On the other hand, this will not be the last time you hear this kind of story.

    8. Nina'os lil brother

      Vaporized huh
      Kinda like coming home to find divorce papers on
      Floor and everything gone .. At least she left my preps
      Hey B I what about that 3.9 in gilroy yesterday ?

      • Be informed

        @ Nina’os lil brother. 3.9 in Gilroy was of course downgraded by the USGS to 3.7 to not scare anyone. This is an offshoot of the San Andreas, like the very active San Jacinto in the south. Usually this is nothing but the faults adjusting themselves a bit.

        • Nina'os lil brother

          Thanx 🙂
          I was here home on leave in 89 rode out Lomaprieta
          In downtown Santa Cruz so I really really appreciate your
          Insight. Thank you

      • snake eater

        Nina`os little bro

        hell she could have stayed you know you may be better off


        • Nina'os lil brother

          Well she is gone soo now my food prep just doubled up
          She did tell me not to bring home any more dogs…
          She hasn’t been on board any how said I spent too much
          On ammo ect ect she went to go live in town were her cell
          Thingy works and electricity pours out the walls..
          Good luck with that.. I play some bob
          No woman No cry 🙂

    9. sign_me_up

      From what I understand Detroit is not really going to “go bankrupt”. That is, they are not selling off their assets including millions in art work. They just teamed with a judge to stop paying their retirees. No doubt that’s a continuing trend (thanks to GM and many others).

      • Zippy

        Excluding Detroit’s pensions, in 2012 the city’s expenses exceed revenue (which include state and federal grants) by over $350 million annually and the city has negative net asset value of over $350 million. That doesn’t even include the underwater pensions. How is that not real bankruptcy?

      • BigB


        I don’t think that is correct but I could be wrong. The city council right before the Governor assigned a “manager” were contemplating selling off art works. I think it was one of the reasons the governor did it because he knew that the monies from the sales would some how find their ways into the council member’s pockets.


      • lastmanstanding

        They are 18 billion in the hole.

        That is 18 thousand/18,000 million.

        wtfu…they are finished and they fucking deserve it. All of those sheep, just trying not to make waves.

        Chicago is next with $19 billion.

      • sign_me_up

        This posting is correct. Dig in. Read the posting at
        “But the city’s two pensions are actually a combined 91 percent funded (80 percent funded plans are considered financially healthy), according to Morningstar’s combined 2011 valuation of the public employee pension and police/fire pension (see chart below). The fund, according to outside reports, is pretty healthy. But how it got there is another story. The pension system is not to blame for Detroit’s woes – but it’s not blameless either.”

        • lastmanstanding

          s-m-u…the money is gone, stolen, vaporized.

          They had no intention long term to pay these dumb fuckers.

          Slowly, slowly they take it bit by bit…Union biz, need funds to support this cskr for office, remodel headquarters, we can get you a new contract…but we need some concessions, you know meet in the middle.

          Fuckem. They bought it, they thought they could produce less and get more. Fuckem again.

          I watched them live so high on the hog thru the 70’s, 80’s and 90’s it made me ill. Most of those fucks had no knowledge of anything but what they were told to do job-wise. They just did what they were told and they were good at that.

          Now look at them…fucked, crying and screaming for more govt. It’s called “the big takeaway”. it happens to every liberal, commie, collectivist sheep throughout history. In the end…there is NO LOYALTY.

          Time to regroup and suck it up if they want to live. They just got tossed by the good buddy, big govt…and taxpayers footed the bill.

          Fuckem…I guess I said that already.

          • Jim Bob

            Best rant ever? I don’t know for sure but definitely in the top 2! And the bullshit claim that cops and firefighters put their lives on the line every day. I see the local fire dept. more at the grocery store fighting high grocery prices then anything else. With all the mandates for building sprinkling over the last 30 years it’s god damned seldom these guys ever see a fire,much less risk their lives. Neither one of those jobs is listed in the top ten most dangerous jobs anymore, say like electrical lineman or fisherman. Plus when one of those guys dies there’s no parade with bagpipes playing Amazing Grace.

    10. JP

      Check out the CAFR (Consolidated Annual Financial Report) for each state, county and city, respectively. You’ll discover this is all a load of BS. There is plenty of money in slush funds and the CAFRs will show you just that. It’s also free for the asking to which ever entity you want to find out about. VanBuren has a site about it. Google it for a different (and suppressed) perspective.

      • Barn Cat

        You seriously think Detroit is not broke????

        • Facebook Page

          They are not broke they still have a huge income. They just spent it like fools.

      • Tactical

        JP….are you serious???? There is plenty of money in slush funds????? Can you share your insight as who will be benefiting from such slush funds?????

        Should we trust the annual reports of the Goldman Sachs???? Did I miss something about MF Global bankruptcy and the money that was stolen by Honorable John Corzine and Chase CEO?

        Please educate me with what you perceive as a load of BS. I want to believe that Life Is Good.

        • JP

          When I exposed this in a letter to the editor (I dared them to print it) in the Tennessean (Nashville paper) back when the state income tax debacle was in full swing, 2001, for the next two days I was surveilled by a black Crown Victoria. They didn’t like it. This has nothing to do with bank audit sheets or corporate fraud, this is simply a matter of municipalities bookkeeping entries and where the money is invested. Do you really think they leave it laying around in a dormant account somewhere? Hardly.

          If you don’t believe me, don’t take my word for it, get the CAFR for wherever it is that you live and look at the
          balance sheet. You’ll quickly see the surplus that exists.

          In Tennessee, when they were crying that the budget deficit was around a billion dollars and they desperately needed a state income tax to balance it, there was a surplus balance on the books of over 24 billion (with a B) dollars. Notice the matter curiously got resolved without instituting an income tax? Gee, how could that happen?

      • Them Guys

        JP: Yep thats correct and Devy Kidd articles listed the lawyer guy who owns a website called CAFER-(something else I dont recall) and his site Lists every state and some larger cities CAFER-Combined funds.

        If I recall it right that article says the grand total for ALL city-county-state cafer funds when all combined are a net worth cash value of OVER $85-TRILLION us dollars. Most invested in the stock markets and bonds etc.

        Every local city, county and State govnt has ONE “general” fund taxpayers pays into as well as other moneys it gains from whatever other sources that goes into the General Operating funds…Thats ALL/Only the funds they allow YOU to see or know of!

        BUT…Each also has aprox 5-6 or More other seperate funds listed under various other issues. For example when I checked state of Mich a few yrs ago, besides the general opps funds, there was a seperate fund listed that contained Cash amounts of $125 Million in Cash dollars deposited from Pop bottle .10cents bottle deposites that folks never yet cashed in those pop bottles to retrieve their .10 cent deposit from.

        And besides That $125 Million just for state of Mich, there was another 4-5 funds listed for many other items the state keeps cash for or from. And they collect Intrest on every cent held in every Cafer fund listed! Back then about 5 yrs ago when I first read of this that website showed most cafer funds earned an avg of 18% intrest! some Higher intrest earnings! And the elected and Apointed “officers” is who decides what its spent on and when spent etc…

        Other states had much more money in their combined CAFER funds…much more! And when all 50 states and all citys, counties are combined it adds up to OVER $85 TRILLION!!!

        We aint supposed to know of the CAFER funds, thats reason that fed up lawyer guy made his website to Infrom folks of the massive Huge Swidnle scam we are being told whenever you hear some MSM reporter or politition Cry or Whine that “theres Not enough Money so We Must Raise taxes again folks!”

        NO they do NOT need More of anything! They all has CAFER funds Bursting at seams full of Cash, Cash and MORE CASH YET!

        If pressed for these lists they Must allow citizens to See them…But How many folks Knows about CAFER fund Lists? Barely any knows. Untill Now that is eh! Go Check YOUR state or citys CAFER funds see what Lies You were told of!

        • nosuchuser

          Just because something can be assigned a ‘cash value’ doesn’t mean that it can actually be sold or is a ‘liquid’ asset. I bet the total value of the municipalities retirement funds are included in the ‘CAFR’ statement.

      • jp

        Do me a favor “JP”…use some other initials, because you’re not me! Asshole..

    11. John

      Whether we’re talking a pension plan for either government OR private employment, one should ALWAYS take the payout in one lump sum. The loss is miniscule compared to what you will lose otherwise.

      • Genius

        Yep John, 75% of something is a lot better than 100% of nothing!

        • sixpack

          It’s what you’ve got in your hand that counts.

          • Facebook Page

            Now we talking

    12. Ugly

      We need to have a ‘facebook’ page about rural America so the Detroiters can see. We will dress in rags and look severely starved. The last thing I want are these idiots moving and some of them becoming my new liberal neighbors.

      • hammerhead

        HA , funny you should say that.
        Just today i met with a wealthy detroiter , it seems his
        “deercamp” is in need of remodeling. maybe 200k.
        He aint worried at all . glad hes 40 miles north……

    13. Mountain Trekker

      Most of these people that will get hurt probably worked and possibly paid into a plan with the city for most of their lives, at the very least their pension was part of their pay package when they was working. I know we’ll hear about how it serves them right from some on here, but just think about how much you have personally saved for your own retirement. It seems to me that all those deadbeats that live in Detroit should be the ones that have there Govmit money cut 80%. Trekker Out. Si vis pacem, para bellum!

      • Calgacus

        No one in the city or county administration is ever held accountable. They arent vetted well and dont have to pass competency tests and they sure as hell arent elected. They get the job by some average admin worker or a board of stupidvisors. Then the rest of America has to pay for their fuckups.

        • guero

          City and County Governments are a lot more honest than the federal government.

          • Calgacus

            you actually believe that? Theres a handout or a payback or a bribe in every county or city office in America. Get into the books or talk to the workers in thos govt offices and youll be in for a surprise.

          • Smokey

            That is complete bullfeathers.

      • Paranoid

        Except the Bankers of course, they NEED the billions/trillions of Bailout money. And the million dollar bonuses. Makes me sick to my stomach. Lord I hope I live to see the Banker Barbecue.

        • Herman

          The only thing that will be barbequed is your ass, ya paranoid idjit…

          • Paranoid

            I don’t know why you got so many down arrows, no doubt you are right. We are toast,but we can try.

      • Barn Cat

        Those people didn’t pay into their pension system. Or if they did, it was a fraction of what they needed to pay in order to get their benefits.

        If they worked overtime the last 3 years they worked, they were promised pensions as if they worked overtime their whole careers. The whole thing was a scam to buy union votes and don’t think for one second that the union leaders weren’t getting bought off.

        • John Q. Public

          I finally have to agree with BarnCat on something.

          He nailed this one.

      • DrFate

        I did have some sympathy but it evaporated pretty quickly when I did the math on the two examples they gave.

        Larsen & Kammer retired and moved to Florida when Carter was president. They have been collecting pensions for 37 and 36 years, respectively. One retired at 48 and the other at 40.

        Just holy crap.

      • M

        They did not pay in shit , all that money was taken from producing taxpayers. Just some of the money taken from taxpayers was diverted into retirement fund instead of their paychecks.

        Unless they had some magical money fairy that produced it all. Meaning no taxpayers were left feeling like they just got chain ass banged by a bunch of greasy lizards in suits.

        • nosuchuser

          Generally speaking, government workers (city, state, and federal) accept below average pay, as compared to comparable private positions, in EXCHANGE FOR job security and a ‘decent’ retirement package.

          My aunt is a grade school teacher and works her ass off for below-par pay. Thankfully my uncle make better wages in the private sector to support them at a reasonable ‘middle-class’ level.

      • Not so Much

        “paid into a plan with the city for most of their lives”

        Paying into a pension fund at the rate of 1-5% of what you’re guaranteed is NOT contributing. It’s a lie. Sorry, they have no right to the VAST majority of the money.

        So even with the 80% haircut, they’re still making out like bandits.

        • Kevin2

          If your promised a deferred wage as in “You work today and you’ll get this later” and the employer for whatever reason does not come through its theft by deception. Of course employers can kill you by violating safety regulations and they don’t go to jail (so rarely that its not factor). The government stealing off of government employees is a change that can disrupt the status quo. They need their Army (Boys In Blue) to keep everyone in line. In this respect its very interesting.

          Many choose to stay in government service because until recently while it paid less than the private sector it was more secure and had better benefits. One of those benefits was a pension at X value.

          These people are victims of globalization just like the manufacturing employees in the private sector.

          As I said its going to effect Butcher, Baker, Candle Stick Maker along with Doctor, Lawyer, Indian Chief and apparently Teacher, Cop and Transit Driver too. None of us is high enough on the ladder to avoid it. Beware scorning others effected because its coming your way too.

      • newbee

        Well said MT. For the most part the people that are going to suffer are the ones who worked there whole life

      • lastmanstanding

        They kept their heads down and did as they were told for 30-40 years…sounds like a slave to me.

        The are getting exactly what they deserve for being weak, non-confrontational and compliant.

        They had it fucking easy forever at taxpayers expense…toughen up or die…the Marxists just want you to go away and die.

        • nosuchuser

          So I guess providing all of the city services to the citizens they served (water, power, sewer, education, transit, ems, police, etc) is being weak?

          These are the people who maintain the basic infrastructure that we depend on everyday.

          What the fuck is wrong with you?

          • lastmanstanding

            IF they work for corpco or the govt, they are now getting exactly what was planned from above…just kept their collectivist little heads buried in the sand. Don’t want to rock the boat, keep a tiny profile, invest my money like they tell me in my pension and retire…

            Most of them were unionized…bullshit. I worked in a union for 7 years and there wasn’t a damn thing good about it. When thing were jamming, they worked the living fuck out of you and taxed the fuck out of you. Funny how when a contract came up, there was no work.

            When times were bad, oh, we need concessions, we need you to meet corpco in the middle… and we still need your tax money, and your house, and your stuff…

            Look at the whole picture objectively before you ask what the fuck is wrong with me.

            I am self-employed and have no sympathy at this point for anything that takes money from me and wastes it on people who “just want to slip thru the cracks and retire” and those who just eat corpco crap, play x box all day, shit on the earth and offer the rest of humanity less than nothing.

            I just state the facts.

    14. V-ger

      I do not see a source for the 80% cut claim. What I have seen is that the judge agreed to bankruptcy but did not rule on pensions and the like. Just asking.

      • admin

        Hi V-ger, Creditors under the bankruptcy plan will receive roughly 18 cents on the dollar… about an 82% reduction in what is owed to them — this includes pension funds and unions.

        Here is more on the proposal itself from October, when it was estimated at 16 cents on the dollar.

        If Detroit owes you money — whoever you are — you are getting paid pennies on the dollar under the existing bankruptcy plan.

        • Smokey

          They will have to fall back on the Pension Benefit Guarantee fund, I think the retirees will not lose any money.

        • JD

          Once the parasite is done sucking the life out of its host, it may only survive for a short period of time until it also dies.

      • Billy Idol

        It doesn’t matter what some lawer with an I.Q. of 60 (aka judge) rules. If the cash is not, there, they can wish in one hand and….

    15. Kevin2

      In the end the root cause is the “Free Trade” agreements. As manufacturing eviscerated the tax base declines and the end result is bankruptcy. If one says the likes of the UAW is to blame ask yourself why the low paid US textile industry fled the country. Even $10 an hour is far too much to pay when 50 cent / hr virtual slave labor is available.

      Whats sad is that is going to get a lot worse.

      • Calgacus

        “the low paid US textile industry fled the country”

        They were paid what the market would bear and how many were illegals anyway. They got low wages to keep profit high and thats the game. This living wage shit is just that-SHIT. Dont like a job, quit. Dont like the lousy wages, do something else and learn a different trade or skill or get an education. Industries not just textile left for money, for a better profit with overseas labor. The sex addict Clinton paved the way with nafta.

        • Kevin2


          “They were paid what the market would bear and how many were illegals anyway”

          Now the pool of labor includes 50 cent / hr Asians to compete with. The solution? Make 49 cents /hr because thats what the “market will bear” post free trade. The US needed Henry Ford but also needed Walter Reuther. Those two created the thriving US middle class. the composition of illegal Aliens in the US textile industry would be pretty small as these were essentially company towns that we’re not so hospitable to outsiders. These old textile towns are now decimated. US city by city is falling too.

          “Dont like the lousy wages, do something else and learn a different trade or skill or get an education.”

          The wealth creator in the US was manufacturing. Because thats been lost its replacement was debt. One can learn a new skill but in the end everything feeds off of manufacturing. An electrician in the 3rd world may be highly skilled but still makes a very low wage.

          “The sex addict Clinton paved the way with nafta.”

          Clinton certainly ushered in NAFTA and then topped it off with China Free Trade and the demise of Glass-Steagall which deregulated the financial industry paving the way for the meltdown. The fact however is that GH Bush openly called for NAFTA while Clinton deceived his supporters in his campaign with a “NO NAFTA” pledge. Both horses are bought in the two horse race for the Presidency. Obama is absolutely no different.

          Compete directly with the 3rd world tariff free and it may take some time but in the end you become the 3rd world. Professionals are not immune. You can get a mechanical engineering degree but your going to compete with someone in India making $25,000 / yr.

          • KY Mom


            It is horrible there are groups actively planning and promoting the outsourcing of American manufacturing.

            Has anyone ever heard of this group?

            Global Litigation Outsourcing Conference
            London, March 11-12, 2014.
            Global Outsourcing Association of Lawyers (GOAL)

            • Kevin2

              KY Mom

              Lowering the developed world and transferring its wealth to the developing world in an attempt to equalize the world has been an effort of the power elite for decades.

              • sixpack

                It’s called the NWO.

      • Barn Cat

        No, the unions destroyed Detroit long before jobs were outsourced to China. Just as an example, GM pays more for health insurance per car than they pay for the steel to make the car.

        • Kevin2

          Well its good the UAW got a piece of the pie when it was still warm and on the table. The poor textile workers made crap for wages and in the end still lost their jobs to some 50 cent / hr, no pension, no benefits, no workplace safety virtual slave in Asia.

        • Billy Idol

          Only about 17% of people GM pays health insurance for are employees. The rest are dependants or retirees. I have an 80something relative who lives on a GM pension and health insurance. She never worked a day for GM. She gets this because her husband worked for GM. He died about 8 or 10 years ago. Its a private corp (at least was), they can do what they want. I have a problem with it when they get my tax dollares to keep doing it.

          I have a friend who is an engineer for GM. The year after the GM BK, he got a $7500 bonus and his wife used it for a trip to Spain. Nice to know I can subsidize vacations for people who make twice what I do. I’m just bummed that she made it back.

          • nosuchuser

            Nice. A guy makes it through the ‘math and science death march’ to become an engineer and you want his wife to die on vacation. I know you think that college is some crazy booze and sex romp, and it might well be for others, but we never saw it. We were in the engineering lab doing homework the ENTIRE FUCKING TIME.

            Again, what the fuck is wrong with you?

            • Kevin2


              ‘math and science death march’

              Never heard that fitting description.

      • Them Guys

        I Was Born and lived IN detroit for 43 yrs till I moved out 18 yrs ago….I recall when every Union was promoting Klinton and his NAFTA free trade deals and telling every union member to vote dems and klinton because NAFTA will Create More good pay Jobs, more Prosperity for all americans everywheres. Them Unions spent a Billion dollars cash to get klinton re elected to pass NAFTA.

        And remember Newt Gingrich was All gung Ho for Nafta also! Newts the evilness that got all them new freshman in congress, all them Pro us const types we elected to thwart dem lib kommie agendas etc, to vote to Pass nafta.

        Now the truth is there to see. NAFTA=Total International Banksters(rothschild and his khazar crew) in Cahoots with International Global Corps. Swindle scam designed to devestate americas middle class workforce, and by doing this it creates 13-More New Consumers located in every 3rd world shithole nation like africa and south america nations etc…China buyer consumers also.

        Do You Get it Yet? For Every single us citizen consumer destroyed and turned into a 3rd world type person…They Lose One consumer BUT he/she gets REPLACED by 13 NEW consumers worldwide.

        This is Why the Stock Market is doing so swell! Global corps making every item to buy now has a DOZEN Times as many buyers as before!

        And while the “western white nations” citizens(thats You!) get Ruined…Every 3rd world type of those 13 new consumers has a Need to Buy every item you can think of!

        Western nations peoples Has all they ever will need to buy and most has several of Each item one can buy or consume….3rd worlders, them other “13” replacement buyers needs even shoe laces! Toothbrushes! Shoes! Toilet paper! and every possible item ever made for sale as most has ZERO “Things”.

        Get it? the true NAFTA plans were done to destroy Us and send Our good jobs and entire factorys TO 3rd world nations so They can earn paychecks to Buy “stuff” and be the 13 replacement consumers that replace americans as well as every white western nation “former” consumer/buyers…..And Thats Not all!

        Thats PLAN-A Nafta as I described…

        PLAN-B= After they totally devastate abd Ruin every white and their nations are Wrecked byond repair then plan B is to get Us Killed off! as in Exterminated as a Race entirely!

        I believe its called…Genocide..Whitey Genocide!

        All you Red Thumbers and liberal blacks lovers etc wont be red thumbing nothing when “It” begins and YOU are the main Target(if a white that is).

        • Kevin2

          Them Guys

          Clinton actively stated his opposition to NAFTA while campaigning. I heard it out of his mouth in Newark Delaware at a now closed Chrysler Plant when he yelled, “NO NAFTA”. With this he got that support winning the election.

          Once elected Clinton twisted arms to get vital Democrat Congressional support that GH Bush could never of obtained to get its passage. Ross Perot is an insider and was the spoiler to get Clinton elected by taking votes from GH Bush because only Clinton could give the globalists their coveted “Free Trade” by gathering vital Democrat votes in Congress.

          Politics as was said is the second oldest profession closely linked to the first. 99% of them have no ethics or morality regardless of party.

        • Kevin2

          Them Guys

          “This is Why the Stock Market is doing so swell! Global corps making every item to buy now has a DOZEN Times as many buyers as before!”

          Actually $40 billion per month is being diverted into the stock market via the banks from the $85 billion that the Federal Reserve is pumping into the economy. $45 billion is buying Treasuries thus funding this “Recovery”. This was illegal (for good reason) when Glass-Steagall was in effect. This is having a tremendous effect raising the price of equities.

          The stock market has no legs to support it. What we’re witnessing is not reality. Look at oil consumption and the Baltic Dry Index. The world in general and the US in specific is operating with an illusion of recovery.

          • guero

            The stock market is NOT doing well. Inflation just makes it SEEM that way.

            • Kevin2


              the DOW has almost went up 3x from its low in 08. Yes its false with no legs but thats a 300% climb in 5 years which is far above inflation. The reason is the banks got the money not the consumer.

          • Them Guys

            You Need to watch some TV stations that show Other nations like china and africa etc…Many places in the world are going gangbusters at massive huge building projects, Sky scrapers, freeways, roads, schools etc..Creating lots of Jobs also. Not everybodys doing porly like americans are now.

            I know they pump cash into stocks. But they also have Many more new consumers Globally. Local tv or Fox and cnn dont show these things. Global news TV does.

            • sixpack

              I just have one question: Why do we NEED the derivatives market, fractional reserves and hedge funds?

              Answer: WE DON’T need (or use) derivatives, fractional reserves or hedge funds.

              Elitist banksters do. These schemes were created by banksters, solely to slide huge portions of our money across the table and into THEIR piles…legally.

              That’s why they had to get rid of the gold standard.

        • Hunter

          Screw the Reds TG-

          ..I gave you a green one!!!!

    16. Ugly

      It makes me mad that China bought $500M of Manhatten. I think we should sell Detroit to China for $500M and get Manhatten back. Why not? America is For Sale….

      As Mac has stated, this is just the beginning of our birth pangs.

      First the cities, then it will filter to rural areas. Much like the ‘Grapes of Wrath’, but far worse because there is no recovery.

      Good luck, and I really hope we start seeing hundreds of ‘newbies’ now seeing what is ahead….

      • Calgacus

        Maybe this is why China is changing the birth rate policy. Soon theyll dictate who and how many they send over here.

        • Them Guys

          Maybe this detroit stuff is really a smoke screen of sorts. Perhaps a Hidden agenda is by bankrupting cities like detroit, it will convince americans in general to believe its a great idea to allow China to begin setting up all of them “257” seperate Industrial work zones or whatever its called.

          Folks wont complain if they are told China buying up 257 enterprise zones like for example the one in IDAHO which that REPUB Govner has already agreed to will create a “50 sq Miles” Chineese City complete with factories, new homes, stores etc etc a real actual China Owned City thats 50 square miles in size!

          AND under those trade law rules and work zones rules ALL 257 zones like in Idaho, will be considered same as a chineese Embasy! As in China Proprty, China Laws, China Cops and Workers brought Here to usa, and entire zone/city will be OFF Limits to all usa citizen or govnt interventions…Like an Embasy is now!

          Even the US const and BOR wont apply to Any of the 257 new worker zones china is going to set up! Its all a done deal already for laws of fed and state laws and regs…All thats left is for china to begin to MOVE IN! and set up Factorys with china laborors etc.

          Theres already a slew of chineese workers around me in Up North Mich! working on New Nat Gas wells everywheres!

          A man came to My crib offered me Cash $$$ to allow them a 5yr lease for nat gas wells and if gas is located I get a monthly paycheck as long as gas flows.

          But every worker seen around here so far has been a chinaman!…Kommies from china? what do You think?!!

          Just wait and watch if MSM tv news begins promoting enterprise work zones for China in detroit! Then you will Know its the main plan to again swindle americans.

          And litterally Every major corp or manufactureing company now “Global” and also now GONE, was started Here by us citizens and usa workers etc…

          This is How them nation Wreckers who are main owners and controlers of banks and corps are Thanking Us americans! For being such swell “Hosts” to their group since they first arrived here in 1880…..

          “Thanks Dunmmie Americans, especially You whiteys!” Signed, Khazar Nation Wreckers.

      • BlueH20

        Ugly, it likely depends on where the rural area is. Ours has a tad over 4% unemployment. We are diversified: ag, manufacturing at all sizes & levels, local financial services, food processors and warehousing (lots of these), loads of small service businesses (mechanics, electricians, et al), retail, retirees, many still working. Our welfare/food stamp percentage hasn’t changed in decades and is steady at about 8% (County). Cost of living is relatively low, taxes are medium to high and property tax relief is promised for 2014. 250 miles equidistant between two major urban conglomerations, lots of outdoor sports, lots of managed forest, clean streams (a trout fishing destination). Land prices are going higher, rentals start at $600 for 1-bedroom, mostly homeowners (maybe $150k average home).

        We could weather urban bankruptcies, but not Federal. The State is in surplus.

      • Jim Bob

        Why would China waste half a billion dollars on a shithole like Detroit?

        • lastmanstanding

          They need the freshwater of the Great Lakes. They move it in oil sized tankers…except that it is water.

        • durango kidd

          They need to do something with their excess dollars and that something is to use it to buy assets and influence. the American Indian allowed White Europeans to establish FREE TRADE ZONES in North America.

          How did it work out for them? Engage. 🙂

    17. Be informed

      Mac, I tried to send a couple of links about some horrible incidents against Christians done in the name of islam and it doesn’t seem to be getting to you. Normally I get that “your comments are waiting for moderation”, but this is not coming up. Please clarify what is happening. If I am doing anything wrong please tell me.

    18. Paranoid

      My stomach hurts. I used to be able to help it by buyng some ammo, now I have all I can find a place for. This sucks

    19. jim in Va.

      they’ll hit your pension,investments, bank accounts,property…….anything you own now belongs to the government. communism is here!

      • Kevin2

        jim in Va

        Its fascism at the very top with communism being used to control the masses below it. This communism is both domestic and international in scope as the developed world bleeds its wealth to the developing world for the sake of equality. In the end we significantly drop our standard of living across the board with the exception of the power elite and the very upper strata that administers their affairs.

        Doctor, Lawyer, Indian Chief, Butcher, Baker and Candlestick Maker are all taking a big bite of this shit sandwich.

    20. Barn Cat

      They were promised way too much by corrupt politicians and union leaders. The city doesn’t have the money. The article doesn’t mention that some of the pensioners opted out of social security so they’re really in a lot of trouble.

      But that whole Detroit thing is coming to America in the form of 200 trillion in unfunded liabilities. I paid in social security since 1978. I know I’ll never see a dime.

      • Calgacus

        I didn’t know anyone could actually opt out of being held up for SS payments.
        Have you planned for no SS? We are. I guess you are too.

        • Smokey

          Used to be you could legally opt out of the Social Security system if you had a defined pension benefit. Lots of clergy have done this, and I think teachers in Texas, one of the states.

          They changed that law in the 1980’s, now everyone is on the SS system, like it or not.

      • Kevin2

        Considering the ramifications of “Free Trade” the only promise that could have been kept is a bowl of rice and a fish head daily.

        Compete with the 3rd world you become the 3rd world.

    21. VRF

      Hey I told them so.. the cops, the city workers..all those who were trusting that the unions had their good luck with that.

      The Unions found out that Auto makers and appliance makers etc.. could pick up their shit and move to a location that helped them out financially.. well the Unions also found out that Municipalities cant move so they gloomed on to their services like glue, Unionized police force( stupid ass mistake), Unionized Fire Dept, Unionized municipality workers..yeah they all thought they were untouchable..these bastards will screw their own families over , so screwing the cops, the fire dept and the municipality workers is nothing to them.

      You were me.

      Oh hey.. welcome to the party pals.. heres your sign, will you wake up with us?

    22. Dave

      ” My net Pension was $ 2300.00 a month “, said Kammer; 77; who moved to Florida ; not long after retiring with a Disability IN 1977. That pretty well sums up why Detroit is COMPLETELY Bankrupt. That; and liberal policies. Under O’ButtHut; look for this in a town or city close to you.

    23. Npgh

      This may sound cruel, but, I want it all to crash. I understand the consequences fully of what that means to society and the breakdown and heartaches it means. I have not thought on this lightly but have given it my full consideration. I want a crash. I want a re-set. The taxes are crushing families and business of the middle class. I want my God given rights returned to me in full. I want the militant homosexual group to go back underground and stop polluting society with their perversions and corruption of children. I want our military to come back home. I want to see farmers produce whole natural food with genetically altered species. I want God honored in all aspects of life and I want most but will probably not get…is see Hillary Clinton tossed to the lions for her lying ass regarding Benghazi. I want the IRS gone…as in a great big fireball. I want to see families and communities working together for the better of society as a whole and welfare returned to churches and charities…and not the big charities like Red Cross or United Way where the ceo’s keep most of the donations. Yes…I want it to CRASH! Just my rant. Thank you.

      • hammerhead

        NPGH – as good as a reset or collapse may sound , i would be awfully afraid of what would happen next.
        We could see some radical fascist government takeover or communism . I know the direction we are heading , but living under martial law dont sound so good .

        • Them Guys

          Where did you guys First hear of this phrase of “RESET”? From all them FICTION doom+gloom books and websites right?

          The KEY word there is FICTION….Just cause some book writer plays out His scenarios and ends it all with a great new RESET chance don’t mean Thats what will occure in the REAL world.

          1/2 of Russia in 1918 also was promiced a RESET and Utopian Equality for ALL if they only would Help the Bolshevik Kommies Mass Murder 1/2 of the 150 million in russia…And of course then mass exterminate as many more across a Dozen More eastern european nations like poland and ukraine etc.

          Well them bolsheviks kept the part of bargain to mass exterminate as many christians and white land owners and farmers and all who appeared to have a little More than that 1/2 who agreed to become mass murderers.

          But after the smoke cleared, Bolshevik communisim Reaigned supreme for alomst 75 yrs! oh and as for Promiced equality for ALL?….Yeah they did get that too.

          It worked out to full equality PEON POOR for 99+% and abject wealth beyond ones Dreams for the ruler party honcho bolshevik khazars…They was the remaining less than 1% group.

          Now they are Here and You are Next americans.

          • hammerhead

            THEMGUY , thanks for proving my point.
            collapse = bad

          • larry 1356

            Besides,if everyone forgets this crap and behaves, our masters will double our chocolate ration.

          • Npgh

            Re-set, re-boot, start over, whatever. Like I stated, I have given this a considerable amount of thought. I do have people I love. I don’t want them to suffer either, however, suffering is part of being a human no matter what part of the world we live. Some suffer more than others and why is that so? It has been that way since Old Testament times and it is the same now. I give thanks to God for what I have, physical possessions, physical health and for spiritually seeking God’s will to serve and not my own. With that said, we cannot give any more to our government. The bureaucrats in charge are spiritually bankrupt. I have come to the conclusion that what we are facing today is a spiritual war, a war for our souls. I can only see how much worse things are becoming since I was a child, I do not see any great leaps and bounds in progress for our country. Too much taxes, our bill of rights is fading before our eyes, the police are now to be feared, women and girls that dress like street prostitutes to attract men for sex. Men that may have been born physically with balls but something happened to them as they seem to have become more like wet wash rags. Yes, I want restoration of the family. I want God to be first and foremost in any decisions we make as individuals and as a country. If that means that we must suffer to become once again who we never should have strayed from then so be it. God punished his children so that should learn from him and not from Satan. (Israelites). Starvation, disease, war are certainly horrible but not as horrible as our souls spending eternity in hell for not obeying His commands.

      • KansasJohn

        I’m in the process of writing a piece about my take on collapse. I believe the strong will prevail, that chaos will be around and martial law will be instated. However, I also believe the good will band together to defeat the bad. We may have sections of this country run by a warlord or we may have bastions of rebel groups. But for the most part, we will make it through as long as we stick together.

      • Emily

        @ Npgh ~ You got that right about the Red Cross.
        They are mismanaged, and corrupt.
        The manipulate the publics emotions for money and blood.
        I know, I worked there for over ten years.

      • Jim Bob

        I’ll join you Npgh. I’d just like to add we need to destroy political correctness and finally and honestly recognize liberalism as the mental illness it is and provide help to end this scourge once and for all.

    24. Canadian Patriot

      This whole thing is a big lie! Detroit is being punished first for having the audacity to set the tone for the North American middle class lifestyle during the post war boom. Now, the banker-corporate fascists want to continue their plan for world slavery. Banks print money out of thin air and loan it at interest to governments, putting us all in debt, thereby enslaving us all. Governments can create their own debt free money so that countries, states, provinces, and municipalities don’t go bankrupt. Look at what happened to Kennedy simply for printing United States notes instead of borrowing private federal reserve notes.

    25. VRF

      Arab Gulf States Join Chinese Campaign To Dump The Dollar

      • J. Roy

        I wonder how people will look back on the time prior to the upcoming crash. Will they think we ignored the signs? Will they be right?

    26. maudy fricket

      The Democrats promised the city workers great pensions and benefits in exchange for their votes. They are getting what they deserved for selling their votes. Also, and this is big, the parasites ran the hosts out of the city. The leftists and black racists ran the whte merchants and taxpayers out of the city. 1 million people fled for their lives and well being over the last 4 decades. Chicago is in the early to middle stages of the same thing. 1 million people have fled Chicago over the last 3 decades. Go figure. The entire state of California is going thru this same process.

      • ready down under

        Next time you see a clip on TV showing South East Asian or Chinese factories where the workers slave away in horrible conditions for long hours for sweet stuff all pay and with apalling living conditions realise you are looking at the future of your country (and mine!!).


      • Billy Idol

        The makers left, the takers stayed.

    27. george

      So let me get this straight. The guy is 77yrs old. He has been collecting a disability check of 2300. a month for the last 36yrs. He was 41yrs old when he went on disability and moved to Florida. Gee, maybe that is why the state is going broke! They do not have my sympathy. How the f can states afford that? It is not feasible. Unions get their dues knowing that the state cannot pay this forever. Politicians do not give a shit. They approve it because the unions support them and donate to their campaigns.

    28. HD

      Am I reading this correctly, as a European: a 85 year old retiree who retired in 1976? That means he was 47 when he retired?! What am I missing here? Boy, I thought the welfare states in Western Europe were on an unsustainable path, but this really takes the cake.

      Apart from that, in this coming crisis in the West, the retirees will be the first and most tragic victims, because in most cases they won’t be able to reorientate their lives. What alternatives will be left to them? Reorientation is

    29. REB

      Lots of folks fixin to get hurt…some innocent…most not…where in the human phyc they ever got the idea that they could trust govicorp,but a lot do and still do…they made choices…I made choices, we all made choices and there will and ought to be consequences from those choices…I will deal with mine…you will deal with yours…these folks deserve to deal with theirs and to no be bailed out…now to the extent they were cheated they deserve to be vindicated but that doesn’t include the rest of us who made the right choices being forced to bail them out and the crooks should rot in prison and loose what they have, still its a result of them trusting the rattlesnake when they knew it was a rattlesnake and perhaps a bit of greed got in there too?

    30. JRS

      Anybody pick up the fact that those couple of pensioners that were interviewed retired in their forties? Thirty years and done?

      …”shakes head”…

      • Sgt. Dale

        I didn’t see that thanks for bring that up.
        I worked until I was 52 and retired for two reasons. #1 I got hurt, had both knees crush while at work. They replaced them and said I could go to work, when a day came and I couldn’t get to a person that was hurt in a car crash because of the knees I knew it was time to pull the plug before they could say that I couldn’t do my job anymore and they try to fire me. This is no Bull shit. There has only be one person ever retire from this P.D. with 20 plus years and over 50 this is the truth. (It is Me). #2 I knew that I would only make $26,000.00 a year but I knew that I could get some part time work in the area because everyone knew me. I took off 1 year just to get my legs back to at least 90%, and now I’m working at least 24 hours a week. Just enough to get some spending money. I retired 7 years ago and I’m still working. Paying taxes and into S.S. that I may not see.

        If they get thirty years and out so be it. Like Law Enforcement and the Military it is 20 years at age 50 and out. It is because, and for that you rewarded you put your life on the line every day.

        I can only say my sister is a teacher and if she has to put up with some of the turds I have to deal with, and she does this everyday she should get 30 and out, but this will make her 55 years old. I don’t know of any job that you only work till you are in your forties, and retire.

        • JRS

          Well, Sarge, I suppose if they started working at eighteen, they would have their thirty in by age 48.

          …”you put your life on the line everyday.”

          I wish law enforcement would stop continuously saying that. Their life isn’t threatened every day. Depending on where they work, they may have a whole career where their life isn’t threatened. Some may work in higher risk areas, but it isn’t even true then.

      • Kulafarmer

        Yea, government employees,
        Too bad so sad,
        Im going Galt so dont care!

    31. Jenn

      Nine Cities That Could Follow Detroit’s Lead

      Detroit captured national headlines by declaring bankruptcy, but the Motor City is not the first — and probably not the last — American metropolis to face financial ruin.

      The situation in Detroit is the result of a unique mix of civic corruption, poor financial planning and economic collapse. But one of the driving factors in Detroit’s bankruptcy is an unsustainable public pension crisis, similar to what many other cities are facing.

      Moody’s, as we speak, is re-examining these nine cities:


      PORTLAND, Ore.

      OMAHA, Neb.




      TRENTON, N.J.

      SANTA FE, N.M.


    32. TnAndy

      Only way “they are coming for my money” is if they find the maps.

      • ready down under

        If anyone can find my stashes they can have ’em …. but they are safe from everyone ‘cept me 🙂


    33. Sgt. Dale

      This bankruptcy thing for Detroit is just a start. Calf., Ill, NY. Is next to file for bankruptcy. The crash is coming, and when the people loose it they will loose it.(Celente) You will see us old folks burning thing down, and guess what? We are only going to be here for a short period of time any way so WE AREN’T AFRAID TO DIE. Will the LEO’s and Military that have sworn to up hold the Constitution going to stand against us. (I hope not) They should know that when the bankruptcy goes into place they are going to get it up the BUTT too.

      I know that my pension will be on the chopping block in a short period of time. That’s OK I came in with nothing I’ll go out with nothing. BUT YOU CAN BET I’LL GO OUT KICK AND SCREAMING AS HARD AS I CAN. Promise not a threat!!!

      If the people that worked hard get PISSED I don’t blame them. Look! If you are a Zombie or a Leach you get everything given to you, and don’t have to get off your dead asses for all the shit that they give you. If you work for 20/30 years and you are to get a pension, and now they are cutting it by 80% and you start loosing everything and the Zombies still get their shit. I believe that we will start Civil War 2. This is just a matter of time.

      What they should have done 20 years ago is to cut welfare by 5% a year. instead of giving them increases up to 10% a year. (by the way S.S. folks only got a 1.5%increase a year) We wouldn’t have this bankruptcy problem in the cities today. Welfare should only be given out for 6 months only then you are done, and it shouldn’t not have become a life style!

      What a RANT. I’m so Pissed right now about the courts letting them steal hard working pensions and not taking it away from the Zombies, Leaches first. I know why they know that they will riot. Just wait when us old folks start rioting. We can’t run, but we sure as HELL CAN FIGHT!!!
      Something I just thought of I’m a baby boomer and there is more of us that the next generation or the one behind it.
      Aim Small Miss Small

      • OutWest

        Geeze Sgt.

        I was reading your post out loud
        and you made my pit bull run and
        hide under the bed. lol. 5 T. Up.

        • Sgt. Dale

          Call you baby over to you and tell him/her I’m not mad at him/her. Tell him/her I lover him/her, and give it a treat.
          Please next time I go on a rant make sure the dog, and children are in the other room. PLEASE.
          Thanks for the laugh I cooled off a little.

          • Them Guys

            How many Soc sec and Pension paychecks can get Paid if they stopped paying for, 7 ongoing Wars,plus prior Uneeded wars like Nam and Korea etc? And ongoing Pentagon costs of close to a Trillion Per year.

            What if they also stopped All Foriegn nation payouts and began to force major global corps like GE et al Pay taxes and Added all That cash spent or never collected to the phony wars rackets cash spent I mentioned prior.

            I agree on all said of welfare scamers and parasitic african ghetto swindlers. But why is it Okay for GE to earn $6 Billion in one year profits, Never pay one Cent fed taxes and then get a Bailoit of $200 BILLION so GE ceo whom Hobammy made his “Jobs creation Czar” could take all that cash and create jobs in…CHINA’s New GE plants!?

            Nobody seems to ever want to discuss that small group of nation wrecking swindlers that make up Less than 2% of usa Population. yet Own and/Or control most every major Banks and corps in existence.

            Must be due to a lifetime of Brainwashings regarding the Truth and Facts about that small 2% of POP eh.

            I Sure Hope enough americans awaken to Learn and Believe such factual Truths before america gets totally wrecked beyond repair. While they get on Planes bound for Telaviv dwellings with state laws that Forbid extradition of any of them for Any crimes or swindles perpetrated by their tribal members.

            PS! Just Today on TV CNBC stock reports show they said usa Unions are Raising Union Dues by 25% More!!

            Unions must be planning to Bribe more dems to get elected to finish off the usa eh. They will require More $$$ for bribes!

            • Sgt. Dale

              Them Guys:
              You make some very good point.
              I think people on this site could figure out how to fix this whole FRIGGING mess. But they won’t let us.
              AIM SMALL MISS SMALL

              • Them Guys

                SGT DALE: I agree what you said on folks can fix it all “if”…And I also believe that if You and any others here take the time to actually Read and research even a small few issues and webiste links some of us here has often provided. Then whoever does that research IS Going to be Fully Converted into believing that those who Always red Thumb us few do so due to emotional based “feelings” and/or false religious teachings they has fallen for. Because any Honest evaluation of whats really destroying america and How and Whom is behind it, will prove beyond all doubts the factual true answeres to it all.

                Its Not just simple “Coincidence” as some think. Its a Grand scheme design and has been operating for aprox 300 yrs now. But folks just must get Over those many falsehoods and propagandas we ALL been taught as truth.

                I’d wager at least 99.9% of folks who cry foul or forgery etc when we tell them what to read as proofs has Never ever read a single word of those things. Nor does any of them actually investigate any Links to reliable truth sites….There really are some folks out there that care More for real truth regardless whos group gets offended by it, than most any Other thing. But truth has to be self taught usually eh.

                SGT Dale You too write much good stuff and if we had Many More cops and leos like You are america would not be so bad off today I think…I for one commend your attitude and know you are sincere and truthfull. Thanks for being so! Them Guys

              • Paranoid

                Sgt: I understand “Aim small, miss small”; But if it’s OK with you, I’d rather just blow the crap out of the whole area.

                • Sgt. Dale

                  That works for me too. The bigger the boom the better!!!!!!!!

      • Socrates


        Well said. And it is sad but true. Yes, now you know why they have bought an excessive amount of top of the line hollow point ammo. Now we know why they bought riot gear, checkpoint booths, MRAPS, sniper rifles and everything else. It all adds up to the biggest collapse and battle of all time. It won’t be pretty or easy…but it will be. While the citizenry is still armed there may be still be hope. After that…all bets are off.

        • Sgt. Dale

          I’m not bragging but I can match just about everything they have. I only have one of them where they have hundreds, Remember that I was well trained by the FBI in Sniper, SWAT, and Medic. and I’m still a cop. Hollow point I got lots of them too.
          I hope you didn’t read this out loud and scared you dog too.

          • Tactical

            Sgt. Dale… I wish we had you and others like you in charge of the National Law Enforcement units. I want to be back to the time that seeing a law enforcement personnel should be perceived as security Vs what we are facing today (sadly).

            God Bless and Stay Safe. We’ll need you.

            • Them Guys

              Tactical: ironic aint it how we was taught that the FBI was the TOP most ethical LEO agency worldwide. Yet even with massive numbers of FBI personal and RICO-ACT ongoing criminal laws to use and hundreds of Billions per year funds…The FBI never has and never will even arrest a single corrupt fed official or elected fed senator etc.

              That tells me the FBI like the CIA are Both controlled by the usa fed State Dept, which in Turn is controled by Mossad and Banksters and Wall Street.

              Even though us Congress reps is supposed to control the fundings and Purse strings eh.

              All FBI is willing to do is every once in a Blue Moon, charge or arrest some goldman sachs Lower level clown, then get him to agree to pay fed fines that “seem: like alot when a fine is $100 million Cash fine! but when compared to the Hundred BILLION he swindled for his bosses at goldman sachs its like maybe 1% of total gained in scams paid back in a fine…And NO Jail time never!

              I wonder if FBI has job requirements that mandate agents learn Dual language of, say for example yiddish to get hired?

              • 10mm

                You can’t have mobsters from the street making money, the other ones in banking/wall st want it all. So create a law that kills off the street wise guys regardless of it’s constitutional wrong doing. Sad.

              • guero

                No, Arabic.

              • Tactical

                Indeed it is ironic Them Guys. When we put the pieces of the historical puzzles together we see in more depth how the system is being manipulated Vs what the fathers had in place and preached. Randy Weaver in Ruby Ridge, Branch Davidian’s etc.. were formed piece by piece over decades. Today we see the dual citizens in charge of the investments
                banking firms destroy lives financially and our Justice Dept. and its law enforcement units will simply either keep the silence or as you have stated put some stupid circus show and simply BS their way out of it. Some may say how about Bernie Madoff and my answer to such critics is he went to jail based on a simple fact…..He stole money from his tribe members as well. The Zionist Banksters won’t tolerate such acts. I pray to GOD to bring human dignity back to mankind before it is too late.

              • Hunter


                Always..always..always, seek to know thy enemy and his textbook, MODUS OPERANDI!

                Respect his capability and resource base, but in the long run, always endeavor to ruin/compromise/destroy, his underlying/supporting infrastructures!

                Call it the STRATEGIC VERSION of:

                ..aim small, miss small!


                Kudos to you both!

            • Sgt. Dale

              Thanks but no thanks it’s too corrupt now and the only to change it is to tear it down and rebuild it. I don’t think I will live long enough to that.
              I wouldn’t last a week, Some corrupt S.O.B. would more than likely shoot me. And say I committed suicide.
              But Thanks Any Way!!!

        • Idaho Bill

          @Socrates Check point booths…..I’ve said for decades..”what would it take for TPTB to turn all those welcome centers and Weigh stations into check points”.

          • Babycatcher55

            I’ve never even thought of that…good point!

      • IL mom

        Sgt Dale….how does the pension reform that was passed today affect you? I caught just a mention on the radio driving home from work.

        • Sgt. Dale

          Right now they are looking at the ruling that was just handed down to use it as an excuse to start pulling pensions from folks. They are going to say that the City/State is bankrupt. Illinois is in a world of crap when it comes to having money for the pensions that they handle IMRF. I think its around 17 billion in the hole.
          I’m going to have to look into some more just to see how bad its going to get.

      • Slick One

        The time is come, now if EBT cards, Section 8 Housing,WIC checks,AFDC checks, SNAP, TANF, SSI for phoney disabilities were to be turned off….
        Career welfare cases need termination, to help them to work. The free ride is ENDING AT LAST!

      • VRF

        SGT said this

        “If the people that worked hard get PISSED I don’t blame them. Look! If you are a Zombie or a Leach you get everything given to you, and don’t have to get off your dead asses for all the shit that they give you. If you work for 20/30 years and you are to get a pension, and now they are cutting it by 80% and you start loosing everything and the Zombies still get their shit. I believe that we will start Civil War 2. This is just a matter of time. ”

        and I have felt that this situation can very well be the catalyst for a very rough time for us all, When you have a late 60’s person or early 70’s person that is going to lose it all, and he still has the ability to plan and execute his plan, and hes got nothing to lose, look the hell out. there could be some very justified paybacks coming..i sure as hell wouldn’t want to be on the receiving end of a pissed off person that knows he’s getting fucked and has a limited time to rectify or justify his actions.

        • slingshot


          You could be on to something there.
          That Day will sure be a MutherFucker. ROFLMAO!

    34. Max

      “Oh my, oh my. Everyone is worried. When we think about what could happen, it’s scary,” said Larsen, 85, who moved to Palm Harbor, Fla., outside of Tampa after he retired in 1976.

      Here is the real issue…this man retired at 48 years old instead of continuing to work and build his bank…so much for mooching off the backs of tax payers…

      What comes around, goes around!

    35. swamp rat

      Why I ask are so many Chinese buying land in Detroit? Think somebody told them that after martial law the place will be a gold mine. Gang bangers will be shot on sight by the military.

    36. Midwesterner

      I certainly have compassion for all the people who are going to be affected by this bankruptcy. They deserve all they were promised & paid into. But if you look at the dates some of these folks retired at, they have been collecting money for over 25 years. No municipality or corporation can afford to pay someone for 25 years after they retired AND pay the person who took his place & stay in business. What the solution is to this dilemna, I don’t know, but in hindsight it was unsustainable from the beginning.

      • Kulafarmer

        Bullshit politicians, making bullshit promises with other peoples money and all the while feeding the rest of us a bunch of bullshit, raising taxes, making more bullshit promises to get the public unions to vote for them

    37. Penelope

      I love how the person who retired on disability in 1977 at the age of 41 has been receiving 2300 a month for 36 years now. That is right at 1 million dollars – Ain’t no way they ever put anywhere close to that in any pension plan. They made out like a bandit. This is why I have no sympathy for many of these people. They have taken advantage of the system.
      On a lighter note, I live in Florida and maybe all the retired Yankees from Detroit will have to move now. They have come down here and brought their liberal politics with them and totally screwed the state up.

      • slingshot


        Tell me about it. Closet Yankee’s. Loudest and rudest people on earth.

    38. California Girl

      I just dropped the last of my visiting relatives off at the airport. After all of my preaching over this Thanksgiving holiday of the coming collapse not one of them truly believes it could happen. They are not going to prepare at all. Not one of them.

      • ready down under

        But YOU are Cali Girl, you are looking after you and yours. We all (the Prepper Community at large) have to realise we cant help those who wont help themselves. Sad but true.


        • California Girl

          Thanks everybody!

          I’m so glad all of you are on this website. We all have our differences and that’s OK. I come here every day because you’re the only people I can talk to and that helps to keep me going. I assume most of you feel the same or you wouldn’t be here.

      • hammerhead

        cali girl – i stopped preachin long ago, now i am just the crazy in law that they all avoid .
        you can lead a horse to water but…….

      • Sgt. Dale

        Cal Girl:
        You can take a horse to water, but you can’t make him drink.
        You keep prepping, and doing what is right.
        Right now all you can do is PRAY for them and we will to.

      • Walt Kowalski

        When the collapse DOES come, I’d suggest you move….and not leave a forwarding address.

        They’ll be back……with their