Given that tens of millions of Americans cheered in blissful agreement when a Democratic National Convention promotional video claimed that the only thing we all belong to is the government, it would make perfect sense that everything else belongs to the government as well.
Case in point:
In July of 2011 a jeweler’s heirs found ten double eagle $20 gold coins in a family safe that dated back to the Roosevelt administration. They then sent the coins to be authenticated and appraised by the Philadelphia Mint.
The coins come from a batch that were struck but melted down after President Franklin D. Roosevelt took the country off the gold standard in 1933.
Two were preserved for the Smithsonian Institute. But a handful more mysteriously got out.
Because the coins had never been released into circulation and were struck after Roosevelt’s gold confiscation executive order #6102 in April of 1933, the Treasury Department assumed they had originally been stolen from the mint.
Without any evidence or consideration given to statute of limitations, the government seized the coins – valued at $80 million.
The family sued in federal court and a judge has finally handed down a ruling.
A judge ruled that 10 rare gold coins worth $80 million belonged to the U.S. government, not a family that had sued the U.S. Treasury, saying it had illegally seized them.
…
Last week, Judge Legrome Davis of the Eastern District Court of Pennsylvania, affirmed that decision, saying “the coins in question were not lawfully removed from the United States Mint.”
Barry Berke, an attorney for the Langbords, told ABCNews.com, “This is a case that raises many novel legal questions, including the limits on the government’s power to confiscate property. The Langbord family will be filing an appeal and looks forward to addressing these important issues before the 3rd Circuit.”
Source: Yahoo News
So, the gold, which was originally stolen by the Federal government because hoarding had been forbidden by Presidential decree mysteriously disappeared from US Treasury vaults in 1933, to be found 78 years later, only to be re-stolen by the same government again.
What’s more is that the judge claims the family who found the coins in their father’s safe were actually the ones who committed the crime by seizing said coins nearly decades before any of them were ever born.
The lesson here is that the government, its representatives and the myrmidons who blindly support it believe they own you, everything you’ve worked for, everything your parents and grandparents worked for, and everything your children can expect to work for in the future.
If they want it, they will take it.
The government “thinks” that they own everything that we have, including our very bodies. Yet they preach that we are free and will remain free. The slippery slope is getting a lot more steep each day.
This story just reminds me how precious certain metals are. And before it is all over with we will use every precious metal we have to gain our freedom.
Government big enough to supply everything you need is big enough to take everything you have. The course of history shows us that as a government grows, liberty decreases.
Thomas Jefferson
*Sigh*
Jefferson never said that. The statement “A government big enough to give you everything you want is a government big enough to take from you everything you have” came from a speech Gerald Ford gave to a joint session of Congress in August of 1974.
That’s a great quote! But it was Gerald Ford, not Thomas Jefferson.
FYI, Gerald Ford said this. No biggie.
The quote came from
Thomas Jefferson quote
http://www.famousquotes.com/show/1940659/
I guess it is beyond the comprehension of some people that historical quotes can and are often used later by public officials. Just because Ford may have used the quote does not mean that Jefferson did not say it. If Obama stood up;and said that “Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again” (like electing him by the way) “and expecting different results”, does not mean Einstein didn’t say it.
Sounds like Gerry may have been guilty of plagerism.
Especially Pb…
I think the Next Precious Metal Will Be Lead!
I agree and i collect it.
Like Lead
My mama always said “once a thief always a thief”
How convenient…we’ll (Government) just call it ours.
There are many in the country that would gladly give back their bullets when they are forced to do so by tyrants and terrorists.
GMAFB! The coins didn’t walk away from the US Mint. They were stolen. They didn’t belong to the jeweler or to his heirs.
If possession of stolen property was ownership, the heirs to all of the art looted during WWII wouldn’t be receiving their [property after all of these years.
Lets use a little common sense people.
You think this government is not evil. You know it’s a corporation now right, US, Inc. with it’s own Board of Directors like any other C-Corporation or profit corporation and have pulled these legal names to sound like a government of old. Get real and get you head out of your _ss! Are you gaining or losing rights since Kennedy!
Kennedy was killed because he was trying to get rid of the Federal Reserve. “WAKE UP!” The banking system is screwing us over and over.
Tom: The issue is not whether this administration is evil or not; or whether other administrations have been evil.
The issue is to whom the coins belong.
We cannot demand the Rule of Law with respect to OUR constitutional liberties on one hand and suggest that stolen property does not belong to the rightful owner on the other.
After all, WE the people are the government; any administration is OUR employee. The US Mint is OUR mint and those gold coins belong to US.
Engage.
we dont even know how he got it. he was a jeweler. maybe he was going to melt it down. purchased from the gov as scrap? save them from melting it. who knows. finders keepers in this case.
eddie: The heirs could have ascertained enough info about the coins to know that they were extremely valuable.
It doesn’t matter how the jeweler obtained the coins. They were the property of the US Mint.
Once the heirs understood what they had, which was UNCIRCULATED, UNISSUED coins, they should have melted down the gold and kept it.
Gold is gold. The value of gold is one thing. The value of stamped but uncirculated, and unissued coins are another.
As uncirculated, unissued coins the gold was the property of the US Mint. In the form of gold bullion ….. that’s another matter altogether.
Switzerland held Nazi gold bullion branded with Swasitkas. This gold was accumulated from the corpses of the individuals sent to the death camps.
Once that gold was melted and refined it was impossible to determine who the gold originally belonged too; much the same way that Japanese gold, recovered by the US, was looted from SE Asia.
In the case of the Nazi gold, there were at least lists of those who were sent to and died in the death camps; assembled by meticulous German bean counters.
And this is how the heirs of the death camp victims were able to sue the Swiss government for that gold and recover it on a per capita basis; regardless of how much any particular victim may or may not have owned.
You mean the prison camps that incarcerated the people who had looted Germany before World War ONE, started World war ONE, looted Germany after World War ONE, and started World War TWO by declaring war on Germany in 1934?
Google “Judea declares war on Germany.”
John Q; I am just talking about the gold. I don’t care who looted Germany or started WWI. I wasn’t there I don’t know.
What I do know is that I don’t care.
How about if we agree that it was pretty damn stupid to send those coins to the Philidelphia mint. This could also be a lesson in what can happen when one gets greedy. They wanted the coins appraised by the mint in order to get top dollar. They should have just sold them on the open market.
Is that policy by Roosevelt still inforce today or has it been superceded?
When will people learn a little OPSEC… shut yer pie hole, and they won’t be takin’ yer gold!
Sorry, folks. I am as opposed to the Big Brother government as anyone but this is a rare case in which the government is almost certainly right. Those coins were, in fact, illegally removed from the mint by a crooked government employee and an equally crooked jeweler who bribed him to do it. The descendants of that jeweler tried to make a pile of money off the illegal deeds of their grandaddy. The government was right to seize the coins. A crook is a crook is a crook, whether on Wall Street or Main Street. And nobody can ever have clear title to stolen property. Those coins belong to the American people, not to the relatives of the sleazy jewel dealer who stole them.
“A crook is a crook is a crook, whether on Wall Street or Main Street.” The only problem with your otherwise sterling argument is that ONLY the guy on Main St takes it in the shorts, like here. The guy on Wall St., Pennsylvania Ave or Rodeo Drive walks, time and time again. You know what? I think it’s time to return the favor.
If I was on a jury with an issue like this, I would find for the family based on: 1) The government is refusing to prosecute people like Corzine who have stolen billions 2) the money going to the government will be used to spy on American, kill innocents abroad and in general be destructively used. I’d have no problem in finding for the party of LESSER guilt, the family.
Unless and until the scales of justice begin to weigh on the side of the OPPRESSORS as much as on the side of the PEOPLE, I say take every opportunity available to stick it to them. Your prissy sense of “morality” works great in a Sunday school class but not with the level of corruption we are facing. Get real…
History is replete with Governments invading other Countries for their loot to bolster their own enpires. Is that loot ever returned to it’s rightful owners?
Why are you surprised? Hitler took the gold from the teeth of the dead jews, This country is no Different and after putting us in camps will do the same thing
They trusted the govt to assay/authenticate the coins,I wont criticise them but thats not what Id have done,…certainly one would/should have stashed 9 of em and taken one to a reputable coin dealer(they exist Id assume)someone/anyone but the US Fedgov Inc…taking all of them to anyone just seems to be a bit goofy to me,that said Im sorry for their loss but hope this will wake up people to what the fedco has become,PURE 100% EVIL!
Tell them nothing,show them nothing, give them nothing…trust them with NOTHING! Hide your stuff!
Damn right Reb! My sentiment exactly.
Coulda Woulda Shouda. The right thing to do just seems less and less the right thing to do.
Shoulda duh
@E.MIKE——Now-a-days, I think the saying is ‘Right is WRONG and Wrong is RIGHT!!! (but I could be wrong—-right!???)
I agree with you reb. We can’t trust our gov’t at any level now and this is a great example of why.
YES REB…at this point I am sure they are kicking their own asses for sending all the coins in.
Hindsight is always 20/20
Or DID they send in ALL the coins?? Hmmmmm??? Maybe the family was smarter than that? Probably not…..but one can hope! 🙂
No less smart than the family members who turn in “guns for kicks” or other similar programs without checking to value the weapons. Thousands of historically significant or otherwise valuable firearms have been lost in this fashion.
There is a good point in this Tina, the insurgency now has more members, the poor sods that trusted the government. These people learned a lesson the hard way, for all of us, I feel for them, they definitely got screwed!!
Their mistake was going to gub’ment — The Black Hole.
And there’s no doubt they went there for ‘official’ authentication for intended resale. Greed does strange things to folks — it will bite you in the butt. So will the gub’ment.
Tina and Zoltanne: Sounds like the heirs (like most Americans) are stuck in stupid. Best to sell to a collector if they wanted to sell them, researching the internet for prices on coins.
Laura, Don’t you think that a high-end collector would be suspicious if they know the history of this era of the $20 gold coins?
Here again is the greed thing. Would you buy? Would you tell them what the history is? Would you narc? Would you, by law, be forced to alert “authorities”??
Reb: Yep, it reminds me of a funny line from Animal House when the new guy, Flounder, gets his car trashed by the other guys; Otter puts his arm around him and say “hey, you f*cked up, you trusted us”! Forest Gump is applicabel here too, “stupid is as stupid does”. People this careless or idiotic don’t deserve any pity. Our government is the biggest thief and murderer in American history so trust is not an option here. OPSEC is for every situation.
I am guessing you are smart enough not to believe the conclusions of the Warren Commission.
That’s the problem though – so many people unconditionally trust the government to do what is right, when in reality that’s rarely the case, especially these days.
The one who made the decision to send all of them should be identified so he could be crucified by the rest of the family.
Never let the government touch your junk. Not at the airport. Not in your piggy bank. Not on your land. Government is possessive. If they touch it they’ll want it and if they want it THEY WILL TAKE IT.
I don’t want to criticize the people who had the coins, but, I will say they *WERE* foolish. Now, however, they are less foolish because a thieving government has introduced itself. If I had $80M in coins the only permission the government would get is to leave.
I will repeat REB’s words: “trust them with NOTHING!”
And I will not: “especially your life or your property.”
“I do not consent.” -NetRanger to all agents, agencies, beaureaus, divisions, subdivisions and departments of all governments everywhere.
REB, Spot On! I could understand appraising one coin, not all 10. That’s just not smart.
Really. ill bet they keep kicking themselves. over and over. it was a stupid thing to do.
Do not volunteer information to the enemy.
Thats why they use the media to lie to the people on a daily basis.
“The press must grow day in and day out — it is our Party’s sharpest and most powerful weapon”-Joseph Stalin
“fair and balanced”-fox news
“presstitutes”-Gerald Celente
Joseph Stalin and Thomas Jefferson had different views of what ‘the Press’ should be and do. Unfortunately, we can see what version of ‘the Press’ prevails today.
“Educate and inform the whole mass of the people… They are the only sure reliance for the preservation of our liberty.”
“Whenever the people are well-informed, they can be trusted with their own government.”
Thomas Jefferson
A den of vipers they are.
When I saw this was going to court, I had no doubt a corrupt judge would pass this ruling down.
Legrome Davis. hmmmm.(the honorable no doubt, just like our supreme court just-us-es) I wonder.
I think I once saw a ruling that all the federal reserve notes in circulation are property of the gubmint(and can be LEGALLY “seized”.
Anyone have links or remember the name of that case?
“””I think I once saw a ruling that all the federal reserve notes in circulation are property of the gubmint(and can be LEGALLY “seized”.”””
It’s worse than that. They are property of the Federal Reserve, an international corporation.
They are on loan to and under a maritime lien secured by to the United States government.
Not only can either of them come and take their “property” back at any time, because of the lien they can take back ANYTHING YOU BUY WITH THEM.
The only way to stop them in court is to force answers to questions that will expose the fraud for what it is if they pursue the case against you.
Why is this allowed to continue????????
I get all that GC. the gubmint IS the federal reserve.
You remember the court case, or the plaintifs name.(it was ruled in a tax case)
The decision was rulled in a california case in the 90’s (I believe).
I just don’t remember the cases name, and google is worthless.
not just for kevin….
Not really. That the Federal Reserve is the government would be closer to the truth.
It continues because people continue to pay the IRS, which is nothing but a collection agency for the Fed. I did my part when I quit filing returns and paying those thieves 20 years ago.
Why do people continue to support it with their Labor? Why follow it’s rules? And don’t give me that crap that it’s the Law, or they will throw you in jail.
If that is your argument, SHOW ME THE LAW that requires you to pay them. If you pay them, yet have no knowledge of the law that requires it, you are an idiot. Make THEM show you the law. They can not, and will not, because it DOES NOT EXIST.
The scam is maintained by the fear of being thrown into jail under contract law for nonperformance. Get the Great IRS Hoax. Learn the law.
Maybe then, it will not be allowed to continue any longer
Because we allow it to continue.
Anyone disagree? if so please explain how we are nto letting it continue?
“Why is this allowed to continue?”
We havent given them any reason to stop… Sounds extreme sure, but looks like a halo when compared to them. What do you do when the same person stabs you in the gut once a month for your life? They leave you just enough time to heal before they stab you again. Would you just take it? Remember they’re going to stab your kids twice a month when they’re older. If you take it, you know what you are, if you solve it, you know your kids will be more safe in the future. Solve it!
Here is a good quote from John Adams, true today as then
“All the perplexities, confusion and distress in America arise, not from defects in their Constitution or Confederation, not from want of honor or virtue, so much as from the downright ignorance of the nature of coin, credit and circulation.”
The founders knew, but the rest of the citizenry was as clueless then as they are now.
Tell the gov you have 80 million in gold and they’ll figure out a way to take it from you…
They are out of our money…they will come for all that we have left. We must say no more. Some of us will fall in our non-compliance. For the sake of our children…no more dammit!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
As 14th amendment citizens, they believe that we are nothing more than corporate assets to be raided at their pleasure. They do it through the Federal Reserve and through the constant licensing and authorizations that they give at their discretion. We certainly are not treated as We the People sovereigns who gave government their right to exist!
It’s time we give the US, Inc. their walking papers.
We the people can abolish our own government if we wish too. That’s what the Declaration of Independence gives us. Like I say, we need to give them their walking papers and shut down every US corporate agency belonging to US, Inc. that’s the United States of America Corporation people.
All UPPER CASE CORPORATIONS LIKE NEW YORK US ANYTHING! Time to take back what belong to the people of this country. The United states of America lower case s for the real government we had.
I Would hve melted them.Apparently the Langbords are honest folks that trully thought they were legit coins.They should get a percentage of the weight of the coins since they did turn them in.
I’m sure the feds don’t see it my way.(so piss on them)
“Honest folks” means “easy meat” in today’s language.
After this saga is over, the Langbords will no longer be families, which is a guarrateed fact.
US presidential candidates lapdogs for Zionist lobbies: Miller
http://www.presstv.ir/detail/2012/09/06/260162/zionist-lobbies-own-us-pres-runners/
“To learn who rules over you, simply find out who you are not allowed to criticize” – Voltaire
[Then, read THE THIRTEENTH TRIBE, by Arthur Koestler, free .pdf here: To Find Out Who Your Rulers Really Are
http://archive.org/details/ThirteenthTribeTheKhazarEmpireAndItsHeritage%5D
Before civilization people lived in small tribes, hunting and gathering to meet their needs. When conflict arose over territory the less powerful group left.
Agriculture was invented and people both stayed in place, and created excess. This made them easy targets for those who found it easier to plunder than to produce. They could not pick up and run like their hunter/gather ancestors.
The farmers eventually made deals with the strongest of these plundering groups for protection from random plunder, in return for systematic payment of tribute (tax), and government was born.
Government has always been the control of society by a few, violent, powerful people who exploit the majority. There has always been a ruling class that lives from the wealth produced by people who work, and that wealth is taken by force.
The problem we have today in recognizing the true nature of government is that there is a charade every year, or two, or four where we are given a list of people to select as our rulers, and this creates the illusion that we have choice and are free. The reality is that we are serfs being exploited by an aristocratic ruling class that has rigged the economy to favor themselves.
We truly do belong to government; we don’t own ourselves, and the great experiment started in 1775 failed; we are now as much subjects of our current government as were our ancestors under the rule of King George.
This is not taught in our self serving educational system. It would be epic for most people to understand this. I didn’t understand this really important concept until my “over-the-hill” part of my existence on this planet. Well said.
Currency act of 1764-(I suggest everyone read the whole thing, then re-read the declaration of independance, and the constitution on emitting bills of credit for currency, and the coinage act)
Currency act of 1764 section 2-
II. And whereas the great quantities of paper bills, or bills of credit, which are now actually in circulation and currency in several colonies or plantations in America, emitted in pursuance of acts of assembly declaring such bills a legal tender, make it highly expedient that the conditions and terms, upon which such bills have been emitted, should not be varied or prolonged, so as to continue the legal tender thereof beyond the terms respectively fixed by such acts for calling in and discharging such bills; be it therefore enacted by the authority aforesaid, That every act, order, resolution, or vote of assembly, in any of the said colonies or plantations, which shall be made to prolong the legal tender of any paper bills, or bills of credit, which are now subsisting and current in any of the said colonies or plantations in America, beyond the times fixed for the calling in, sinking, and discharging of such paper bills, or bills of credit, shall be null and void.
TRANSLATION- You WILL use OUR paper money.
You think the colonies were pissed off about that?
OR
Because of some tax on tea.
So our ancestors fought a revolution because they were forced to use paper money.
WE are forced also.
Funny thing the schools NEVER NEVER NEVER, mention the currency act.
“Silence speaks a thousand words”-unknown
Well said SidDavis.I have been following events for a while and shtfplan.com is the ‘go to’site for me. A wealth of info through various links and of course ‘comments’.Up here in the Great White North I catch a lot of ‘stunned deer’ in the hi-beams all the time when ever I mention certain economic “inconsistencies” that are going to lead to more severe problems in the NEAR future.My gut feeling is that the cracks in the financial system will become obvious by late fall/early winter. The general consensus or feeling I get can definitely be classified as ‘normalcy-bias’ as explained by Chris Duane from the silver shield.The economic playbook from ’08’ has been leaked to our very own ‘democratically’ elected officials and we now have a financial nightmare looming as well.The similarities and mindset of both the us. and cdn. governments is both eerie and frightening.Your comment brings to mind the fact that we as a society have come full circle from “Lawless Survival to Surviving the Law” and ultimately back to lawless survival which should be obvious to anybody who doesn’t watch TV for the news.The one thing that concerns me when reading comments are comments that paint a vivid picture of chaos and perceived level of intellect.ie: arms in the air let the lead fly, gubmint, ain’t skeered etc. Well intentioned I’m sure,however to anybody who is starting to wake up reading comments…I think you know where I’m going with this.
“Prep well and Prosper”
You said a mouthful!
We need a “Peoples Party” that truly represents the lower and middle class that we all can stand behind to sweep out the garbage in the Senate and House as well as the White House. Right now the garbage resides in both political parties. Then maybe we can draw down Government to at least a sustainable level. Darn, we couldn’t do much worse than what we currently have to contend with.
That’s the Green Party.
you still cant eat gold
You can eat anything. But you might get real sick afterwards. 🙂
You can, however, eat lead.
Wasn’t that nice of them to show their gold to the enemy. Fools…
A statement and a question sort of on topic. Statement: a friend and I were discussing buying silver. He said, “Buy silver coins, because the government tracks bullion purchases.” Question: does anyone KNOW if this is true?
The tracking the bullion part, I already know it’s true we had the conversation.
They can’t track on secondary market…especially if you pay in cash which I suggest.
This a (1st) rate example of the reason why discrection has to be exercised in creating things. Why would this family send these coins in to be authenticated just shows blind trust. Yes its hard to track AU in the secondary and auxiliary markets. A few years back I took delivery from a DRMO contract on 80,000 lbs of old MA bell phones, the clunky black ones. Knowing a little about the percentage of metal usagage in commercial applications, I smelted them down, the yields were fairly significant…Au, Ag, Cu..and a few others. Needless to say the spoils are well hidden just in case they one day say hey we made a mistake, we want our phones back. With Godspeed prep hard, stay alert.
It’s hard to qualify to bid on DRMO stuff these days, you really need to be a contractor now. The days of the little guy getting in these deals are few and far between.
The corp WANTS YOU TO BELIEVE it is capable of tracking anything and everything. That way you “police” yourself to make sure you honor its wishes.
The corp can track, or claim to be able to track, any PUBLIC activity it wants to. But that is no reason for you to be concerned in your private business.
They shure are stalling for the rape and pillaging of Syria
Everyday my anger towards this evil group of officials who are supposed to be representing us grows. I am so sick and tired of the way we are being treated. Another reason to hope for the collapse. I know it will be bad, but then I will be fighting for my life and feel the freedom I should be feeling now
@ Jim (another Jim), I know of several individuals who are biting at the bit for their elected officials to ever return ‘home’ after the collapse – they’re wanting a bit of ‘hands-on’ time with those people – kinda like what happened to Mussolini I suspect.
However, I keep telling them, the foreign military forces will beat them to it… history has shown that more often than not, when a foreign force invades and takes over, one of the first protocols is to literally get rid of those in ‘authority’.
I just hope ‘they’ ‘televise’ the festivities ‘live’ for us commoners… you just can’t get that many people into an arena… there would be arguments over who gets the front row seats…
You dont steal millions of dollars worth of property from someone and not have to look over your shoulder every day …stupid stupid move.
I believe now if anything like this were to be found, no one would hear about it, or they would end up being melted down into something else
I would have never played my entire hand..im not even sure I would have showed what I had at all.
Yeah, what confuses me most is why they felt the need to send their ENTIRE collection to the mint for authentication. Wouldn’t one piece have sufficed, and a reasonable deduction could have been made that the entire set is legitimate?
If I had a single coin confiscated, I would be a little peeved, but would rest easy knowing the rest of my loot had some value!
Another case of “sheeple” and “Fools Gold”. Who in their right mind would ever pay $80 mil. for 10 coins. I don’t care how rare they are. How many lbs. of gold bars could one buy for $80 mil. if one could find it. Almost two tons of the stuff.
Show the government what you have and trust that they will help you out. What a bunch of fools.REB was right hide 9 and ask about one. If the feds come sniffing around melt the rest down or sell to private investors plenty of them around.
” One life is all we have and we live it as we believe in living it. But to sacrifice what you are and to live in a UN NWO ZOG FASCIST Feemason ZIONIST Jooo COMMIE Catholic Jesuit Black Pope Gestapo Black Boot Prison Nation GLOBAL BANKER MAFIA DICKTATORSHIP under Constant Martial Law without belief in INDIVIDUAL PROTECTION FREEDOMS , that is a Fate more terrible than Dying !”
” I am not afraid… I was born to do this !”
~ Joan of Arc
By the way, what was her fate?
As I recall the english burned her at the stake?
raise your guns and let the lead fly
moral of the story: don’t trust any agency or business regulated, controlled or influenced by the federal thieves… i realize that includes alot of organizations…
They, the government, are entitled to all the bullets that I can fling at ’em. Ain’t skeered.
the lurking trolls are out today. Hello Janet!
They all ready know it, so if the goverment and (I lump in LE) ask you anything just give them NAME, ADDRESS, and SS thats all. Our struggle is getting harder by the hour not the day anymore. I might add if they ask to search, NOT WITHOUT A WARRANT! You want to drive them nuts, look them in the eye’s with a smile on your face all the time. Show them that you are not intimidated, they can not stand this.
This is but one more reason for the average American to take back our country from these thugs. Leave their bodies bleeding in the streets, and show them we are not their cattle.
I feel bad for this family, but the bottom line is that a) they were greedy and they were trying to maximize the value of the coins by having them appraised at the gubberment mint and b) they were in possession of stolen property. The mint NEVER released the coins, so they were definitely ‘lifted’ from the mint by someone.
This case has some similarities to the folks that bought artwork and found out later that the work had been stolen from museums and families by the Nazis during the war. The artwork, by law, reverted to the original owners if they could prove it.
I know it sucks, but I’m thinking the judge ruled correctly here. If a lawyer here can give me an opposing viewpoint, I’d love to hear it.
Now you can all let me have it… It’s OK. I can take it. 🙂
Mal
Says a relative of a dudge.(misspelling intentional)
While it is easy to sympathize with the family, the simple fact is that if the coins were not officially issued, then they were (and remain) stolen property.
I also think that the family was stupid beyond belief. If it were me, I’d have gotten 9 of the coins to a secure location OUTSIDE of the U.S. (one at a time for however many years it took), then hand-delivered the 10th one to PCGS (the premier coin grading and authentication service) for on-the-spot grading and authentication. It is possible that PCGS would have contacted the Secret Service regarding possible counterfeit coins – or not. But in that case, they’d have only lost one coin of the 10.
Very, very trusting of government decency = galactically stupid. This case proves it, and at least the rest of us can learn from this family’s misfortune/stupidity.
If you want Freedom, take it.
Banana Republic.
Solutions??????
There are some things worse than dyin.
I prefer the “live to fight another day” idea!
We are ALL only renters in this world..Nothing has changed people!! WE own nothing..But owe everything..
Just hang your hat on this Fact.. WE were born into this life naked and with nothing.. and will exit this life in the same fashion.. your Not able to take it with you!!
SO.. take from life all that you can while your still above the ground..keep quite and to yourself..don’t make waves..fly low.. and enjoy being a renter.. because anything and everything you amass in your lifetime Can be taken away from you by a stroke of a pen by the banks, government or a court of “their laws”..
Sorry for being such a realist..
“In the absence of the gold standard, there is no way to protect savings from confiscation through inflation. There is no safe store of value.” — Alan Greenspan
“An almost hysterical antagonism toward the gold standard is one issue which unites statists of all persuasions. They seem to sense… that gold and economic freedom are inseparable.” — Alan Greenspan
“By gold all good faith has been banished; by gold our rights are abused; the law itself is influenced by gold, and soon there will be an end of every modest restraint.” — Sextus Propertius (Roman Poet)
Sell what you have and give some to the poor, thus providing for yourself “money” which does not grow old. A true treasure in heaven, that does not loose it’s value. Which no thief can can steal or moth destroy.
FOR WHERE YOUR TREASURE IS-SO IS YOUR HEART. Luke 12:33
Come now you Rich and weep and howl for the miseries that are coming upon you! Your riches are corrupted and your garments are eaten by mouths. Your gold and silver are corroded and their corrosion will be witness against you and will eat your flesh like fire. You who have heaped up treasure in the last days. James 5:1-3
Gold does not corrode. One more thing your bible is wrong about.( along with the world being flat and the existence of unicorns)
@ Heretic
You might try looking up the term “Figure of Speech”.
Wow, you seem to be a really smart person concerning theology, so maybe you can answer a question for me, if you would be so kind.
Can you give me absolute proof that there is no God?
All of us Believers be looking for your response.
I find it more efficient just to tell Heretic he is a dumbass rather than inviting some drawn out theological debate. A quick look at the word “corrode” shows that, surprisingly enough, there is sometimes more than one definition, gee whillikers, and additionally the Middle English/Latin understanding of the root is “to gnaw away,” which is a demonstrable physical property of gold. So even though it is in translation from the classical languages in which the Bible was written, it is still perfectly correct.
Hence, you want to avoid the larger discussion, because if he is manifestly a dumbass in such a small thing, can you imagine how unbearable the dialectic in a more philosophical realm.
Obviously I should be off cultivating the fruits of the spirit rather than indulging in intellectual flayings, but sometimes I just feel like witnessing via smackdown. Using suitably brisk Anglo Saxon language, of course.
Atheism is a fanatical and demonic religion, like Islam. Atheists feel they must “enlighten” and convert everyone they meet.
But Mama, it’s just so much fun watching them trying to answer that question, isn’t it? Even David Hume couldn’t, as I recall.
With all due respect, you are entitled to your opinion, but I don’t see him as a dumbass, just a poor lost soul.
God Bless
Well Heretic, I got to tell you that I’m a believer, but I also believe in your rights to “believe what you like”. So much for the other comments to your post and so much for the milk of christian kindess.
i can.
Yeah. Absolute proof there is no God:
It’s called the Bible.
This series of writings covering centuries represents the clearest proof of all that God does not exist.
Written by human hands. Contains over 30,000 documented contradictions and errors.
Used to commit genocide since its creation, slaughtering hundreds of millions of people.
Still being widely used today, with an even wider ‘interpretation’ then ever before, to justify all sorts of heinous crimes and actions by you so-called “followers” against other humans.
Specifically, if God exists, then what mankind claims to know about Him can ONLY be found in this flawed book.
Yet the claim that this is “proof” is patently false, as you cannot offer up this book as a testimony (evidence) of anything since there is no corroborating evidence to support the claim.
If God wrote the Bible as claimed (which is actually a circular reference and therefore invalid anyway), then he was utterly incapable of providing any actual evidence that a) it was written by God; b) it is free of errors; c) that it contains sufficient external evidence that proves God’s existence.
The Bible references itself, which would be no different then if you were to claim something along the lines of “I am an alien from Planet X”. Your “proof” is a document that you carry which looks suspiciously like something anyone could write. You refer to this document as your “proof”. In this document, it claims what you allege, that you are a alien from Planet X.
None of this is proof of anything and therefore, it is invalid as proof of anything.
Yet this is exactly what Christians believe — that the book that describes God and his proof of existence is found only in a book with known errors that simply references itself. No external evidence whatsoever is provided.
Everything else is simply hearsay (such as your faith or any other claims of “proof” you might have that God does exist) and is not ‘evidence’ of anything, it is simply a logical fallacy called “appeal to belief”.
Theologian throughout the world have long identified that the Book itself is capricious, contradictory, incorrect on many points and as stated, full of known errors.
Yet this same Book is alleged to be the ultimate “proof” of God’s existence. Since it only references itself in circular fashion as the only “proof” claimed, it must be discarded as evidence of anything.
The truth is the Bible actually proves that God does not exist at all. Since there is no other proof anywhere in the world, then the conclusion is clear. God does not exist, he is not real, he is entirely made up and “make believe” and he is not involved in the affairs of mankind at all.
The proof of this last point should be very obvious, since there is a decided “lack” of assistance to the host of problems and suffering in widespread evidence throughout the world. Christians try to “justify” this with false logic — that this is “proof” God is judging the world, which is pretty fucked up. Actually, it means just the opposite, Christians are judging the world (wrongly) and blaming their make-believe God while sitting on their asses.
It is the Christian community that refuses real proof, evidence, facts, logic, reasoning and common sense. In a twisted way that would make any psychiatrist do handstands, their “proof” of God is found in no proof at all.
In other words, the absence of God is proof enough that God exists — which is pure double-speak at it’s finest (and makes absolutely no sense at all)
Go after the Executive Order that originally confiscated the wealth of the people. Stealing gold coins that don’t belong to you is still stealing.
I would support these people 100% if it originally was their property.
The smart move would have been to drop one in some big time well known charity box donation and watch the court proceedings thereafter. If their allowed to keep it a legal precedent is established and maybe ONE of your coins could then appear. If they’re not allowed to keep it there is no sense coming forward with yours.
Problem – government can family to federal court and ask them if that is they only one – if even one of them tells the truth the rest are guilty of perjury in federal court.
‘Official’ Unemployment rate falls to 8.1%
+96,000 jobs added
368,000 drop out of workforce
(www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-09-07/payrolls-in-u-s-rose-96-000-in-august-jobless-rate-falls.html)
Direct link…
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-09-07/payrolls-in-u-s-rose-96-000-in-august-jobless-rate-falls.html
And 2+2 = 5, Winston.
US,
Exactly. If the party says it’s so, then it’s so. The law of gravity is nonsense! No such law exists. If I think I float, and you think I float, then it happens.
Winston: I love you
It is shocking that the term “Big Brother” is in the news daily and nobody seems to notice, nobody seems to care. The citizens of Oceania, standing on the beach, watching sublimely the approaching mile-high tsunami wall that will drown and crush them.
Better get your New-speak dictionary handy.
I once wread that no president has been “re-elected” with the unemployment rate above 8%.
Look for many more people to “drop out” of the workforce.
Yes we can, yes we can, yes we can,yes we can, yes we can, yes we can, yes we can, yes we can,yes we can, yes we can, yes we can, yes we can, yes we can,yes we can, yes we can, yes we can, yes we can, yes we can,yes we can, yes we can, yes we can!
blah blah blah blah blah blah blah.
The official number will drop below the magical 8% soon, even though USA has had only a few months during the past several years where the net job increase was over the 125,000/monthly figure generally accepted as the number needed to keep up with population growth. Makes you feel like Alice, doesn’t it?
USA is currently WELL above 1930s unemployment levels.
Gettin’ pert near election time. He needs some “window dressing” to make the clothes on the display maniquins look new. This will make the unclean and the unwashed moan, “oooohhhhh, aaaaaaahhhhh, as their eyes glaze over, they will conform…….
Moral of the story….
NEVER….EVER…trust the government of the United States of America.
Never.
Ever.
Or, for the fact, anything which could be called ‘government’ in any country.
They Own It All, Including You
(By Means of Toxic Currency)
Are the coins stolen?
Do we have the right to claim stolen property even after the statute of limitations expires?
If something was stolen from you and years later it turns up at the thieves home. Would you like it returned?
These coins were not released into circulation and did have the labor expended to make them as payment. Making them legal exchange. On the other hand the 1933 confiscation of gold by Roosevelt was intended stealing of the peoples wealth of coins already in circulation.
We all like to screw the government but we must be careful we do not become like it.
PO’d Patriot: Those are my sentiments exactly. All throughout history, as far back as the Roman Empire, not one manmade government that has existed anywhere ever had good, honorable intentions towards the people they ruled over. They have all been the same; evil and dishonorable. Although God ordained and invented the concept of government, mankind has turned it into the exact opposite of what He intended for it to be. Romans 13 is the most misquoted and misunderstood chapter in all of the Holy Bible. In Romans 13, God teaches us that all rulers are to do their jobs according to principles He set forth; that they are not to be oppressive or tyrannical towards their people or any of the other things they’re doing today. Far too many preachers today give a totally false version of God’s Word; especially Romans 13. Instead, they teach that we are to totally submit to manmade government follow any and all orders unconditionally and without question. This doctrine has existed all over the world for centuries, especially in Catholic-dominated nations. Nazis and Communists were both devout followers of that doctrine; you all know the rest of those two stories. The day is fast approaching when our government will declare total war against we the people. I hope everyone on this forum has already taken their stand. I, for one, have decided I no longer have any obligations to this evil government. When TSHTF, everything will change; looks like it’s coming in October. If anyone wants to take anything from me, they’ll have a fight on their hands and they will lose. Take care and keep prepping.
Thanks brother. As each foot falls on the path a little puff of dust rises. As long as I can smell that dust in my nostrils, I know I’m moving forward. All the best.
And look at this one:
Record 88,921,000 Americans ‘Not in Labor Force’—119,000 Fewer Employed in August Than July
http://cnsnews.com/news/article/record-88921000-americans-not-labor-force-119000-fewer-employed-august-july
Why should this ruling surprise anyone? Remember what happened after the salvage of the SS Central America? An 1857 shipwreck.
They were fools to ever admit to recovering anything from that wreck. Makes you wonder how many such salvage operations are carried out without public acknowlegement of the find. Remember the Atocha (sp?)? The US government, Florida state government, and Spanish government all claimed the find.
Just wondering out loud here…but how exactly is the government going to “take” control of this nation?
Militarily? Not going to happen. I served 11 years in the Armed Forces. To be sure, there are a few ultra-loyal factions in the branches that would carry out operations against civilians, but the VAST majority would leave their posts in disgust (AWOL) and go home to defend their families and loved ones, taking all their weapons and training with them. I cannot imagine marching down Main Street Cleveland (not where I’m from), suppressing the citizens there, knowing full well there is another unit just like mine in my home town with a gun trained on my family. I just cannot see the military ever turning on the populace when it is made OF the populace.
Police? Just not enough of them and to be frank, they are outgunned. If the SHTF outright and it is open season on anyone who comes to take your life or liberty, the police force would be pretty brazen to think they are going to roll into any average neighborhood and not come out a few officers short. Sheer numbers, sheer firepower, they will lose. Also, I think most officers and patrolmen will conduct themselves like I outline in the case of the military above; leave their posts to protect their families.
Private armies/mercenaries? I don’t think so. Again, sheer numbers and firepower.
So, what does that leave? Nuclear bombing? Chemical/Biological attacks? I think if they resorted to that, the entire world would, rightly so, condemn the US Government and attack the USA outright. I would welcome it at that point.
The only real tool they have is economical. Money. And it’s not even REAL! Once the currency is devalued and becomes as worthless as the paper it is printed on, those of us that are prepared will reap the rewards of our labors, and the masses that aren’t will die off.
Come to think of it…it WOULD be easier to subdue a country of 10 million versus 300 million. Hmmmm…
Achilles, you are thinking logically. The Feds have been ‘discovered’ with all of the ammo purchases lately. No one has yet to discuss (or research) all of the Fed orders for barrels and reamers, etc, and how wonderfully those private businesses are doing these days. The Feds don’t just sit around and push pencils, so whazzup with the orders for components?
You are so into this..and speak truth and how I’ve seen it for a very long time..instill fear and stop the public??
Not.
Next door has 25 or more weapons; guess who I’ll be feeding???
I can’t remember who said it,but,”Those that control the oil, own countries.Those that control food, own the people”,
store your water and grow your own food, and you’re not owned by anybody.
NinaO’s very peaceful Rocky Mtn quiet Star Filled Night Walk thought on AmeriKa’s decline into Zionist Fascist Communism …
After reading scanning my usual 3am 12 websites for global news and politics , I went for a early morning 4am HEALTHY HEART walk through my beautiful town in Montana ( THE DEER HERE ALLOW YOU TOO WALK RIGHT UP TO THEM , even the skunk by my place is friendly and chirps “good morning” as you walk by him ;0) ) and reflected on the global and national news I just read … and it came to me …
” Individual Property and Self Rights of Personal Freedoms Protection , Personal Justice in Our Zionist Fascist Commie Globalist Controlled UN NWO ZOG AmeriKa Carbon Credit VAT TAX Debt Slave Prison Plantation Nation , WILL ONLY COME TO THOSE FREEMEN FREEWOMEN FREE AMERICANS who are willing to TAKE A STAND AGAINST TYRANNY , EVEN IF IT MEANS ONES OWN LIFE !!!”
” That will soon by the only way and means for a Individual Person to be Truly Safe Free in their possession of property and homes from a global banker tyrannical mafia gestapo AmeriKan dicktatorship FedGov StateGov !!!”
“Prison Yard Rules will soon be Main Street AmeriKa Rules !!!”
Where only the Strong Ruthless Brutal criminal corrupt will rule the court justice system streets towns cities Prison Nation of AmeriKa !!!
I ASK YOU PREPPER PEEPLES – HOW FAR are you WILLING to go to PROTECT YOUR NATURAL BORN RIGHTS of PERSONAL FREEDOMS , PROTECT your PROPERTY and HOME FROM A CRIMINAL DICKTATORSHIP COURT JUSTICE SYSTEM UN AGENDA 21 FEDGOV STATEGOV GOVERNMENTS ???
~N.O.
Hey, theres no vat tax here!!! CONSPIRACY THEORY!!! 🙂
@Kevin ;0) … “Whaddup Prepper Dawg?”
ummmmmmmmm … try CONSPIRACY FACT ;0p !!!
Sorry to point this out to you Kevin but …
You All are ALREADY PAYING A National hidden “VAT TAX” in various hidden federal state taxes some instances you are being tax double and triple for the same items !!!
TRUE FACT !!!
~N.O.
Yeah, I know.
Its called a joke brother. 🙂
I have been having posts disappear into cyborspace here on shtfplan.
I forgot to copy(as insurance) a long response I posted about william cooper(him being deseived by members of naval intel about ufo’s to discredit him on other subjects) and the sacrifices that alot of people HAVE been making the last 20 years in this revolution against private central banking 2 (what I call it) that is on going.
People arrested/framed.
Accidents
Suicides
Tax bills
police shootings(like cooper)
It goes on, and on, and on and on.
I cannot reproduce my passionate feelings in my post that disapeared(I am not even going to try to re-write it), but this one is an overview.
@Kevin ;0) … apologies … please Kevin could you sometime when feeling the passion recreate that list of yours … and post it here … I truly would appreciate it Prepper Brother .
Peace to you Kevin
~N.O.
@ninao- They are evil bastards. Lets just say “deaths” are ruled suicides, and shootings are ruled justified. They do every trick in the book, and are unaccountable due to local law being forced to stand down(or act on a “tip”), or are complicit in an act(knowingly and/or not knowingly), leo’s are being used by TPTB and bribed by greed and whistle blowers are outcasted/threatened.
@evil bastards- I(and many others) know the things you do, you protend to know,not, what is done in your name. But deep down you do!!
So does God.
One day, our military (yes OUR,OUR God dammit,OUR the people of these united states military) will chase YOU around the globe(as you run) and bring YOU to justice. You think you can just leave your stolen wealth to your prosperity when you descend to hell,WRONG! That stolen wealth will be seized and your prosperity will be marched through the streets with shaved heads, like the french women who slept with the germans, and they will wonder the country side poor, eating out of garbage piles with your grandchildren.You hoped that would be the fate of OUR children/grandchildren, but it will be YOURS AND YOUR GRANDCHILDREN!!!! You think the vote fraud will save you (and your prosperity) from such a fate, you are wrong. It just slowed/delayed it.
P.S. evil bastards- blowing up the world will not deliver your souls to heaven like you think, IT WILL JUST SAVE YOU FROM THE WRATH OF AN ANGRY POPULATION!!!
END RANT.
Like I have said and told everyone..”The Rules of engagement” have changed.
and you better get with it..or be willing to give up everything you own and have worked for
“If you can’t afford to start a business or go to college…..” The government will see to it that you will get want you don’t want. Takes one to really know one.
Nice article from Alex J website I thought I should post here that makes much sense.
This angers me, but why in the world would someone trust mailing in old gold coins to the mint, come on !
It seems like the smartest thing at bare minimum would’ve been to have sent in just ONE SINGLE COIN,that way, the loss would’ve only been $8 million from them keeping that single gold coin and the family would still have the other 9 coins and $80 million – $8 million = $72 million !
Sending in ALL 10 coins was very stupid knowing how corrupt the U.S. Treasury is. This family will probably spend money they don’t have, borrowing on whatever they own to get up money to pay attorneys to fight this out in court for a long time and still never get the coins back. I can’t believe how trusting people are.
They could’ve at least had the value known from the single gold coin to know how much the other 9 were worth, then when the U.S. Treasury told them they weren’t getting that single coin back, the family could’ve taken a private charter jet to Europe , sold the 9 gold coins there, putting the money into a Swiss bank account and at least had something out of it. Now it’s a 99% chance they will get NOTHING.
That family will probably have many sleepless nights, unending stress, depression, finanical problems, and just a miserable life for many years onward because of this. When I read that they had sent them ALL in, I immediately thought WHY !!!!??? Why did they send all 10 in !!!!???
Even the SHTF website that this article was on said this >
Take note America, this is what happens when you put your trust in a government run amok.
More evidence we are leaving it a police state.
If I had an extra 80 million dollars, I would buy these 10 rare Eagles. Some people don’t know how to invest…
*Be Informed*
.
Quakes kill at least 50 in mountainous SW China
By CHRISTOPHER BODEEN | Associated Press – 1 hr 25 mins ago.
*Be Informed*
A series of earthquakes collapsed houses and triggered landslides in a remote mountainous part of southwestern China on Friday, killing at least 50 people with the toll expected to rise. Damage was preventing rescuers from reaching some outlying areas, and communications were disrupted.
The quakes started with a 5.6-magnitude shock before 11:30 a.m. along the borders of Guizhou and Yunnan provinces, and another equally big quake struck shortly after noon followed by more than 60 aftershocks, Chinese and U.S. government seismologists said. Though of moderate strength, the quakes were shallow, which often causes more damage.
@ VRF. This is an area along with Iran, Pakistan, India and other countries along the top ridge of the Australian plate that is going to become very active. With the last forecasts I gave these locations as a pretty good size earthquake as a possibility here with the other areas that had those large earthquakes. 5.6 is not that large as I foresee something quite larger, but it does show tension in these areas. I am now waiting for the next sequence towards the polar regions to make another forecast. The 5.7 on the northeastern corner of the Nazca plate is quite large for that section of it and shows much pressure on the Caribbean plate. Will attempt to try to give some sort of prediction on this later.
well, you all know the old saying. Dont steal, the govt HATES competition.
In the American continent, there are two related ionospheric heating facilities: the HIPAS, near Fairbanks, Alaska, and the Arecibo Observatory in Puerto Rico.
The European Incoherent Scatter Scientific Association (EISCAT) operates an ionospheric heating facility, capable of transmitting over 1 GW effective radiated power (ERP), near Tromsø, Norway.
Russia has the Sura Ionospheric Heating Facility, in Vasilsursk near Nizhniy Novgorod, capable of transmitting 190 MW ERP.
The “Magna Carta” still Protects us All Today .
History will can Protect You against ZOG FEDGOV TYRANNY in the Dark Hard Times ahead for us all here in AmeriKa … Learn the …
Magna Carta
The Great Charter of English liberty granted (under considerable duress) by King John at Runnymede on June 15, 1215
This is Britain Kingdom Law , English Law which is Superior to our AmeriKan “VIRGINIA COMPANY” and “Admiralty Law” , Colony Laws in a Corrupt Criminal Federal Court system of Law .
Fact: AmeriKa is still Legally owned , a Colony of England .
Magna Carta bylaws point of fact …
39. No freeman shall be taken, or imprisoned, or disseized, or outlawed, or exiled, or in any way harmed–nor will we go upon or send upon him–save by the lawful judgment of his peers or by the law of the land.
40. To none will we sell, to none deny or delay, right or justice.
The MAGNA CARTA makes the ZOG CIA Puppet Dicktator AmeriKan law the oxymoron “Patriot Act = commie tax debt slavery” ILLEGAL !!!
It’s worth your time to read it … KNOWLEDGE IS POWER !!!
~N.O.
pls see below
Magna Carta
The Great Charter of English liberty granted (under considerable duress) by King John at Runnymede on June 15, 1215
http://www.britannia.com/history/docs/magna2.html
LAW OF THE LAND
In the year 1297 this term was used in the Magna Carta. Perhaps the most famous clause of Magna Carta states:
No Freeman shall be taken or imprisoned, or be disseised of his Freehold, or Liberties, or free Customs, or be outlawed, or exiled, or any other wise destroyed; nor will We not pass upon him, nor condemn him, but by lawful judgment of his Peers, or by the Law of the Land.
This is sometimes called the “law of the land clause”.
Law of the land
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_of_the_land
Whoever came out with the idea of sending all of the coins to be ‘authenticated’ should kill himself , right now.
It shows the foolishness of trusting the government and putting all eggs into one basket.
Marine police training response ignores civilian rights concerns
•Marines
•USMC
•Police
•’only ones’
•gun rights
•Civil Liberties
Inquiries about police personnel training with United States Marines have resulted in a boilerplate response that glosses over civil liberties concerns and fails to acknowledge and address specific questions about those operations, a September 5 letter from USMC Public Affairs shows. The letter, signed by N. G. Fahy, Camp LeJeune Director, Public Affairs, states “The decision to hire civilian police officers into the armed forces was made in order to free up our trained military policemen to deploy without having to sacrifice security at home.”
The policing of military installations was not the concern raised by citizens inquiring into domestic operations. What Fahy wrote next was.
“In return, their civilian counterparts would be integrated alongside Marine military policemen to provide security and policing within the continental US as a blended force,” he revealed.
Some people speak loudest with what they DON’T say.
And that surprises you ? The Marines are the ones that blindly obey the most and think for themselves the least . A far cry from the independent minded soldiers that fought the revolution . Think more of Nazi Germany than restore order except that in this case , unlike the nazis , they wont have the majority of public support .
He DID answer the question, but not intentionally.
http://olegvolk.net/blog/2012/09/03/home-invader-repellent/
It’s really no surprising, just sad for us all.
Anyone catch Peter Schilff ( sp ) video on corporate profits from the DNC? Google it, it’s really telling, and explains a lot on how the left thinks these coins would belong to them and not citizens.
“You didn’t build that!”
Obviously that crowd also thinks you don’t OWN it as well.
Well, look at it this way. This family learned a valuable lesson. It just cost them more than it did us. It’s possible they wouldn’t have learned it any other way.
be informed….3 moderate earthquakes in California among other places…getting scary….thoughts?
@ Badpuppydog. Those 3 earthquakes were along what is called the Coalinga Anticline which is a hill region of lots of folding of the ground. This is an area that broke back I think about 1983. It is east of the San Andreas but could show that the San Andreas is directing pressure towards the zone. I am really watching the northwest corner of the Nazca Plate and Cocos plate because this is the west compression of the Caribbean plate, AND this region helps increase push towards the San Andreas and New Madrid Fault.
On spot confiscation by the government has been around for decades. They’ll confiscate and tie you up in a rigged court system, bleeding you dry. Just look a the profitable “Forfeiture & Seizure” laws that LEO uses to grab personal property. Most of these property thefts were done under “suspected” illegal activity or “paid’ informants. Another confiscation is the “Health & Public Welfare” bullsh!t. Theft under “Color of Authority” is still theft. Making then responsible & accountable is another matter.
A good example of a PM raid by the Feds is the Liberty Dollar office:
http://www.coinlink.com/News/top-stories/liberty-dollar-office-raided-gold-and-silver-coins-confiscated/
Best to the Preps.
for all those who have children and seen the movie Little Nemo I could not help but think of those nasty sea gulls in the movie that flew around screaming “MINE MINE MINE MINE” that is what they do fly around screaming everything is “MINE MINE MINE” the seagulls are in power (I laughed at the thought at first but it is sad and true). Sorry for thi lil kid analogy I am a stay at home mom and my world is filled with rated G movies LOL and the only thing that is deep is the laundrey pile and dishes 🙂 have a great day all and keep on keepin on……
Gold and silver is made by human hands…
Trust in no gold idolized or made by humans..
Trust no human..
Only trust in god..
i trust in me,for i exist.
trusting in an evil,non-existant deity will just kill you dead.
August report says US manufacturing fell even lower. I didn’t think it could go any lower. The Baltic Dry Index is prepared to fall thru the record low later this month. Nothing is moving. The US will have 450 million people by 2050. The globalists are trying to create business activity by flooding our country with poor people. The disaster will get much worse. 450 million people. Resources? Water? Food? Fuel? What have they done to our future? Over 1 billion by 2100. Insanity. Study demography.
Cassandra, thanks for mentioning the BDI, a real good bellweather indicating how slow shipment of goods are, i.e. due to lack of demand. Pretty soon the only movement worldwide will be bowel movement.
Hell in the District Courts continues. Go to http://LawInjustice.com.
If I didn’t know any better I’d say the 1933 gold confiscation is still in effect.
that family is a bunch of freaking GOONS, they clearly deserve to have all those coins confiscated at the very least…
haaaaaahaha, hilarious
I HATE government.
Plain and simply put this is THEFT by the government! They have to prove criminality and lets be plain honest here…..what kind of records could the government been keeping back then and given the time those records if they ever existed could sure as heck easliy have been misplaced and or destroyed by now. $80,000,000 is enough incentive to screw a legitimate owner out of their property…even by our government. My grandfather buried silver bars on his property to hide it from the government back during WWII after it was allowed for us to buy precious metals again he bought as much as he could afford and buried that too….he only revealed the location of the stash on his deathbed. That tells you how well he knew is own government. Let this be a lesson to all of us….never, never, never trust the government!
Now you know how the Iraqis feel and the Afghanis, Except we stole their Lives and their homes when we bombed them for no reason. Bush’s lies got us into that one, They dont hate us for our freedoms, they hate us for our Govt
Idiot. “The lesson here is that the government, its representatives and the myrmidons who blindly support it believe they own you, everything you’ve worked for, everything your parents and grandparents worked for, and everything your children can expect to work for in the future.”
You missed the entire point as you often do.
The lesson here is that gold is a STUPID investment, it can be devalued at any time, it can be confiscated at any time, and the price it’s “worth” can be fixed at any amount.
Mr T,
You gotta give me a ride in that A-Team van with Hannibal and Face Man !!
To everyone…..way off topic, but just heard the news that the Canadian govn’t just cut ties today with Iran…..gave everyone in their Embassy 5 days to get out of Canada….wonder if Isreal plans to strike Iran b4 the US election?
Wait a minute here. If these were yours and someone took them without permission and they turned up years later, dose this mean they are not yours anymore. I think the judge is seeing this a possesion of stolen property. Did the guy who STOLE them from his work place actually have this gold taken from him without payment from said employer? I think not. Don’t be sheep.
They should have just put them up at private auction and kept their mouth shut .
The kiss of death is a vote for Obama. We all know it. Stand up & vote. Register to vote & vote this immigrant out of office. SHOW ME THE PROOF OF CITIZENSHIP. SHOW ME A LEGAL BIRTH CERTIFICATE. CLINTON LIED, SUPPORTER OF OBAMA(many times) SO DOES OBAMA LIE TOOOOOOOOOOO. VOTE PEOPLE NOW. Vote for someone that has a clue. We have seen what Obama can do. He can KEEP THE CHANGE.GO ALL IN FOR AMERICA. STOP THIS OBAMAISM. NOW.
For those who do not like the idea that we, and all of our possessions, belong to the government, take note. The government definitely believes that we and all we have belongs to them! If you do not like it then you had better wake up and start thinking about who you are voting for and what their true agenda is.
I think the time for voting and negotiating is over …..its time for Revolution or secession . We tried in 1861 …..all I can say is ……Hows it workin for ya now ?
OK dem , vote for one side-taxes and socialism,vote the other side–More power to the Millionaires & Billionaires!! Let me think—-“NO” TO BOTH!!!!
I would have to agree that I wouldn’t have sent them to the Feds either. Gold like that you keep a tight grip on.
Yes , there are so many high dollar private ( discrete ) auctions around that sell legally ” questionable ” artifacts to wealthy individuals that they could have gotten rich without anybody around them having a clue .
you own nothing in this country, if you have land they get you with property taxes, if you own a car, we have to do an assesment every year! it’s ashame that the only people that get out of taxes are the ones that live in cardboard boxes,this is where our country is going! more taxes, confiscation of rights! and it just going to get worse!
This reminds me of something that happened 20years ago ,or so,in Florida. A man was driving on a sandy back road somewhere in south Fla.,when he happened to spot several cardboard boxes laying beside the road.He stopped and got out of his car,walked over to the boxes and opened one up.Inside were stacks and stacks of CASH bundled together,all the boxes-same thing!!This guy must have escaped from a ‘Mental Asylum’,because he loaded up the cash and carried it all to the local Sheriff’s Office!!They told him that if nobody claimed it in 90days,it would be HIS!!Well the STATE found out about it and wanted to confiscate it,saying it was found on the road right-of -way,then the FEDS heard about it and the ‘DEA’said it was THEIRS because it was probably Drug Money!! To this day I don’t think that guy got a plug-nickle out of the DEAL!!??— BE ALERT!!——-
I have a really nice rope which is tied to look like a noose, just a simple loop with several smaller loops on the rising strand of rope, quite pretty but I think it would look a lot better if placed around the neck of some dip-wad from the Fed Gov. If any of them from the Fed Gov want to claim it, I will be more than happy to place it around the neck of the Fed Gov dip wad and see how well that dip wad can do a special dance while wearing that pretty piece of rope. Just my 2 cents worth.
Always keep receipts for valuable items
Ummmm….according to the law, those gold coins were the property of the government.
Hate to point this out to all you haters, but…there it is. That gold was stolen from the government. The government seized it under a legitimately passed law.
So…I don’t see a problem here. The gold was returned to it’s rightful owner.
Once again, a perfect example of a just and fair society.
Is the judge associated with any member(s) of The Pilgrims Society in Manhattan? This will be checked out. They’ve had plenty of “jurists” in their hip pocket over the years. This is the financial mafia of the entire planet that won’t release membership list, even Bilderberg releases lists NOT this easily more dangerous group. Davis was appointed in 2002 by Pilgrims Society member, President George Bush, a distant relative of The Crown, The Pilgrims sponsor, who he hosted at the White House. Pennsylvania is tightly controlled by such Pilgrims Society dynasties as the Mellons and Drexels. Using the legal machinery to kill capital formation outside its influence circles is key to the Society “seizing the wealth necessary” (Review of Reviews, May 1902, pp557-558).
I fail to see just what was stolen.
My understanding is that a high standing official at the mint swapped other Gold Eagles, of prior dates, for the ones in question that were to be melted down as if they were scrap gold. The coins to be melted were constantly being weighed so as to ensure that none were missing or to put it another way to be sure that the weight was correct.
Therefore the government were not cheated of any gold as they ended up with the same amount of gold in bullion form which is what they would have gotten had the coins not been swapped.
“Fair exchange is no robbery”.
The coins would not exist as coins now if he had not swapped them and the government still have the same amount of gold.
The family of the jeweller should at least get some part of the value for bringing to light the existence of these beautiful coins. The fact that they handed all of them in indicates that they had no idea that they were tainted goods otherwise they would have only sent in one coin to be checked.
Why are we taught to forgive all those who do us evil … when God has still not forgiven Satan?
By the way it’s not just the Government that taxes us … Corporations are also taking from us (notice the 5 lb bag of sugar has been reduced to 4 lbs yet the price remains the same, the 6 oz can of tuna was reduced to 5 oz for the same price, etc. etc.). We consumers should not forgive those who do us evil. We should do as God did and cast the evil ones to hellfire by avoiding the products they sell on a similar basis. What this means is that instead of buying more cans of tuna and more bags of sugar to keep your consumption the same … you reduce your normal consumption. That is if you previously used 5 lbs of sugar a month only use 3 lbs to screw the evil ones screwing us … similarly if you ate one 6 oz can of tuna a week previously only use one 5 oz can every two weeks …
Just as Satan was put in a world of hurt by God we consumers should similarly put those who do evil to us in a world of hurt too.
When 10 new coins surfaced, it is not so rare anymore.
Now it should worth around 1 million each.
Apparently, about twenty 1933 gold $20 St. Gaudens coins escaped from the Mint and all were handled by the same jeweler, Israel Switt. The “theft” was apparently unknown at the time because the coins were replaced with an equivalent amount of gold so all precious metal was accounted for. Afterwards, eight coins the jeweler sold were confiscated by the Secret Service and one was sold to King Farouk of Egypt which they could not recover through “diplomatic channels”. A tenth coin was recovered in 1952 and destroyed. The government planned on prosecuting the people but did not because the statute of limitations had run out. In the mid 1990’s, the King Farouk specimen surfaced in New York and was seized in a sting operation. After several years of litigation, an agreement was reached and the coin was auctioned for $6.6 million plus buyer’s fee for a total of $7.6 million (plus $20 to “monetize” the coin). The government and the dealer split the proceeds.
Now for the legal questions. If the coins were “illegal” and the jeweler was known to have handled all the known examples outside of the Mint, why did the Secret Service not obtain a search warrant to investigate the jeweler and confiscate any other “stolen property” ? Probably because they would have had to prove the coins were stolen. Nearly a half million of these coins were minted three weeks before Roosevelt’s Executive Order and supposedly all melted except for two coins saved for the Smithsonian. Although they were not “officially” released, who can prove they were not released before the Executive Order? Switt provided the Mint with bullion and it was possible he was partially paid with gold coin and legally obtained them prior to the Executive Order. According to the Constitution and the Coinage Act, all coins made by the US government of a specific weight of precious metal were “legal money”. The King Farouk specimen was originally exported out of the country in 1944 with a US Treasury Department export license. If it were illegal to own, why would the government give permission to export it ? Perhaps this was just an oversight by the US Treasury but it certainly would have been a good argument if the case ever went to trial. The coin was held by the government for about six years before the agreement was reached to split the proceeds plus the $20 to “monetize” the coin. The coin dealer probably thought it better to make a deal and take the money than fight it in court forever. He knew who he was dealing with and “possession is nine tenths of the law”. The extra $20 was required by the government to have a court record that the coin was agreed to be “stolen property” and that all 1933 $20 gold coins therefore left the Mint after the Executive Order and were not “legal money”. In essence this made the King Farouk specimen the only one legally available and therefore extremely valuable. Two years after the auction, the same jeweler’s family found ten more 1933 $20 coins in his personal safe. It is likely they thought after the auction, the government would not confiscate them. They were wrong. They should have been happy to have 9.675 ounces of pure gold. In July 2011, a jury decided the coins were illegally obtained and still government property. The decision was recently affirmed (Aug 29,2012) and the plaintiffs plan to appeal.
(Note : the above is my analysis of the case’s background. I am not a lawyer.)
During that first paragraph I was expecting you to say, “One coin to rule them all..”
Exactly right. I think Mac is a little confused on this issue. The coins were illegally taken and the government, when it found out, made it known. This is like someone stealing a painting. The thief’s heir’s don’t have a legal right to the painting! Nor do the heir’s to these stolen coins. If it was anyone but the government involved Mac would see this clearly.
I think his hatred for the government is getting the best of him on this one. I’m not a fan, but there are a lot of legitimate gripes he could have posted instead of this one, where I hope the government wins out and not the crooks (well, the crook’s heir’s).
In this one instance the government is completely and totally right… It’s a rare thing and I don’t think Mac intended to highlight this either.
What if the judge had ruled in favor of the family? Do you actually think the Gov would’ve handed them back to the family? Not very likely, IMHO. They would’ve just filed a countersuit and held the issue up for ages. The judge, meanwhile, would have been told in no uncertain terms (privately of course) that that was his last chance. In future he’d better rule in favor of TPTB or things might get, well, let’s say, a bit unpleasant for him and his…
Are the Feds going to see if they can get the heirs confined to prison for up to ten years as EO 6102 called for? I wouldn’t put it passed them to at least threaten to do so as leverage.
The mistake the family madein the first place was to trust the coins to the government They should have used a private sector coin expert and they’d still have their money.
Any lesson to be learned here?
this is just sad…what a find…..
I certainly wouldn’t have given the coins to the mint to authenticate, but 80 mil grabbed by cold greasy gov hands…that’s sad…
“So, the gold, which was originally stolen by the Federal government because hoarding had been forbidden by Presidential decree mysteriously disappeared from US Treasury vaults in 1933, to be found 78 years later, only to be re-stolen by the same government again.”
Perhaps the court of appeals or the US Supreme Court will address the question of whether or not Roosevelt’s decree was legal or not. Seems to me that some sort of Constitutional question involving illegal search of seizure could be argued. If EO 6102 was not legal, then it is not a crime to disobey an illegal order. The government should have to prove that the coins were stolen from the US mint and not be allowed to just assume that they were. Most courts frown on “assuming facts not in evidence” type arguments.
“Because the coins had never been released into circulation and were struck after Roosevelt’s gold confiscation executive order #6102 in April of 1933, the Treasury Department assumed they had originally been stolen from the mint.”
The above excerpt from the article above is incorrect. All gold coins that were produced in 1933 before the Executive Order and still in possession of the Mint were melted down and no coins were produced after the Order. 445,500 of these coins were produced before the Order. They were not officially released or shipped to banks but at that time it was possible to directly go to the Mint and get coins. The government cannot prove that any coins left the Mint in the three weeks prior to the Order. See my more complete post on September 10.
Well, at least Fort Knox will have some bullion to count, because as far as anybody can ascertain it hasn’t been counted for more than 50 years.
Any certified coin dealer, could have authenticated the coins and then probably offered them a decent price on 1 or more coins. (Obvious, but needed to be said.)
I would like to know, how the authorities found out about the gold coins?