Peak Civilization: MIT Research Team Predicts Global Economic Collapse and Precipitous Population Decline

by | Apr 5, 2012 | Headline News | 166 comments

Do you LOVE America?


    Researchers at one of the world’s leading think tanks have developed a computing model that predicts serious implications for our way of life as a result of our incessant need to consume resources like oil, food, and fresh water. According to a team of scientists at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology, the breaking point will come no later than 2030, and when it does, we can expect a paradigm shift unlike any we have seen before in human history – one that will not only collapse the economies of the world, but will cause food and energy production to decrease so significantly that it will lead to the deaths of  hundreds of millions of people in the process.


    The recent study, completed on behalf of The Club of Rome, an organization which issued it’s own findings on ‘peak everything’ back in the 1970’s in a controversial environmental report dubbed The Limits to Growth (video), takes into account the relations between various global developments and produces computer simulations for alternative scenarios.

    Via Smithsonian Magazine:

    Recent research supports the conclusions of a controversial environmental study released 40 years ago: The world is on track for disaster. So says Australian physicist Graham Turner, who revisited perhaps the most groundbreaking academic work of the 1970s, The Limits to Growth.

    Written by MIT researchers for an international think tank, the Club of Rome, the study used computers to model several possible future scenarios. The business-as-usual scenario estimated that if human beings continued to consume more than nature was capable of providing, global economic collapse and precipitous population decline could occur by 2030.

    Turner compared real-world data from 1970 to 2000 with the business-as-usual scenario. He found the predictions nearly matched the facts. “There is a very clear warning bell being rung here,” he says. “We are not on a sustainable trajectory.”

    There is no doubt that the study carries with it its own agenda, as the Club of Rome includes members of the upper echelons of government and business from around the world. Many have suspected that the organization exists as a mechanism to move forward with environmental, and thus social, governance of the world’s resources and population through U.N. initiatives like Agenda 21 and the carbon credit system of taxation, both of which do nothing but shift the wealth of the world into the hands of the elite few at the top of the literal food chain.

    But, despite the ulterior motives of those involved in The Club of Rome, they’re not the only ones who have warned of catastrophe stemming from high population levels and unsustainable consumption. In the History Channel’s Prophets Of Doom, Collapsenet’s Michael Ruppert warned of a similar scenario and one which suggests that, while oil may still be available in the future, the costs will be so prohibitive that it will be impossible for human civilization to maintain its current levels of consumption. According to Ruppert, the last great bubble to pop will be the human population bubble.

    Other resource issues that have come to light in recent years include the availability of fresh water, as well as the productive capacity of our current agricultural system. Since all of our natural resources are interdependent, a break down in one, like for example the globe’s oil production system, would make it impossible for farmers to grow food, or for trucks to transport it. The same holds true for fresh water, which is essential not only to human life, but for oil exploration, refining operations, food production and a host of other industries essential to human civilization.

    By all accounts, we have developed a system of consumption that truly is unsustainable in the long-term. While the Club of Rome and similar organizations purport to act in the best interests of humanity, nearly fifty years of solutions have yielded nothing but more problems and have brought us ever closer to the ultimate breaking point, one which promises to wipe out potentially billions of people in its wake.

    An additional consideration which the MIT research study may have touched on but does not look to as a direct potential cause for global calamity is the breakdown of society as a result of unsustainable political, financial, and monetary machinations – something which benevolent members of organizations like The Club of Rome may have been complicit in creating.

    There is a strong case to be made that the issuance of trillions of dollars in debt over the course of the last several decades, much like oil, will become impossible to sustain. Since the entire system of consumption is essentially based on this debt, if confidence in this system is lost, it may very well have the same initial effect as a peak oil breaking point. Debt, even when fabricated out of thin air, is essentially a promise tied to some sort of resource. It is based on the idea that something will eventually be created by someone in order to make good on the debt. By all accounts, we the people are the collateral for all of this debt floating our in the system. But, it has gotten to the point that the debt – somewhere in the range of $200 trillion in the United States alone –  far outweighs our ability to harness enough time and energy to repay the principal with interest.

    Thus, this ‘peak debt’ created to save us from the unsustainable resource practices we face should be just as big of a concern as peak oil or water. Because when we finally reach the limit of our debt, and it becomes clear that the collateral backing that debt is unable to produce enough yield to pay it back, we’ll have a whole new meaning for the term ‘collateral damage.’

    With seven billion people on the planet, the system as it is currently managed can’t possibility continue to support the daily needs of the world’s population indefinitely. The solutions that have been presented over the course of the last half century fall far short of providing any meaningful results, despite the treasure spent and liberty stripped.

    Slowly but surely we are approaching Peak Civilization, and when that bubble pops we’ll see the ‘crash’ manifest in the form of famine, disease and global conflict.

    Via SHTFplan


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      1. First…Its gonna happen no doubt!

        • Prepare for the thumbs down! And now, out of respect for tradition, I am obligated to highjack your post with a completely off-topic comment: my gardening article was just published today on SurvivalBlog: huzzah! He calls me Mrs. B, I guess for Mrs. Bear…not quite the same as Mama Bear! Link to follow.

            • That is an excellent piece – and I love your writing style!

              Consider it printed and in my files!

            • I read that article last night. It was very well written. Hope you win a prize for it! 🙂

            • Enjoyed your article, mama b. It just goes to show, as you say, “successful gardening” isn’t something you just snap your fingers at and start reaping a bountiful harvest. It takes lots of research and planning, along with time and constant monitoring. If you’re lucky enough to have a good relative or friend that has plenty of experience; you can shave off a lot of the negatives and possibly have a good harvest the first year. A lot is trial and error though. When it all comes together, it is so rewarding that you forget about all the time and money invested, not to mention the aching muscles.

            • Great article. Thank you.

            • great article and very eye opening as to how much food can (and can’t!) be raised. btw, if you try “3 sisters” 1) use corn with very sturdy stalks 2) beans will NOT stay on their own stalks and will make a network in the corn so plant them sparingly or a strong wind will knock down your corn 3) the squash will be easier to harvest if you ring the corn patch with it rather than plant it with each corn stalk. on the bright side, we didn’t have any racoons in the corn last year!

            • @mrs b aka @mama bear… ;0) excellent article… tip: you can use all natural peppermint oil as a healthy means to deter pesky garden bugs from eating your hard won crops!

              Works! ;0)


            • Mama Bear, I know I haven’t been posting much as of late, but what is up with all the thumbs down? Did I miss something? It takes a lot to get this many thumbs down. I mean that is a lot of cornflakes to piss in to make that many people upset. I for one enjoyed your article, good luck in your continued efforts to publish. Peace Clay

            • Clay….shhhh….I DID pee in their cornflakes….but you’re not supposed to tell everyone!

              Actually, the only people I’ve been mean to lately are JQPublic and Able Sable, and some troll that came on the site the other day, so I suspect folks just don’t like my lawless, thread-hijacking, garden-promoting ways. LOL!

              At any rate, I had to tell SOMEONE, and it’s not like I am going to tell my friends and family that I wrote it. That would probably get me bumped up the FEMA camp list.

            • Man will always believe he can be immortal.For me ,I will agree with GOD and the book of revelations.It will end the same way as the article says.Famine,disease and conflict .THAT IS THE TRUTH.

          • Congratulations, Mama Bear!!!!

            I hope you end up qualifying for one of those awesome prize packages Rawles offers! 😀

            • Thank you, Daisy. Oh yes: I will fully sell out my OPSEC for an Amazon gift certificate and other exciting cash and prizes!

          • That was a good read!

          • ‘grats, Mama Bear!

            I’d managed that sometime last year (“Bugging Out Via Boat”*), and loved the response letters (even the real negative ones), mostly because I learned a LOT from those letters (and got more than a couple of ideas). It also helped me get a better handle on what I wanted to do about living outside of town.

            Didn’t win, but I think the drawings are somewhat random. 🙂


            • OQ, I remember reading this post…it made me think through the water to which we have access…we are less than a mile from a major navigable river that feeds into the great lakes, and planted the seed in my mind that a canoe or two would be a very handy thing to own. It is very charmingly written, with your personable sense of humor. It’s my Plan A for the zombie apocalypse.

          • Way to go, Mama Bear!

          • Mama B…I enjoyed the article. Probably you got a lot of junks because some thought you were hijacking the thread.Your place reminds me of my youth. We had a huge garden also. I hated having to weed every morning during summer, but it fed 5 kids pretty much all winter. Mom was a German born and raised in Germany. NOTHING went to waste.We also have an Amish community nearby. Take advantage of that. We get our milk,eggs,lard and even the chickens we are starting from them. CHEAP and natural.They are very friendly and often make you a deal for a ride somewhere.They are the ultimate preppers. Anyway, good luck in the writing field.

            • JRS, We also have an Amish community nearby, and I have recently made friends with an older German woman who is very much into gardening and other forms of self sufficiency and thriftiness. Our house, in fact, was built by a German master brickmason for his very large family of 12 kids.

        • Yes, everything is going to collapse.

          But. It not because of lack of resources as we all know.

          And it will be long done by 2030.

          It makes you wonder if they release this info to make people think that they have plenty of time…

          • Good article. It does present a very bad situation. But it won’t really affect me, since per my birth certificate I won’t be around in the year 2030. Fell for those that will.

        • This is a stupid, liberalist article.

          Peak civilization is a 1960’s abortionist myth to justify infanticide.

          I expected more from this site, but of course pagan athiest preppers outnumber us God fearing preppers.

          So no surprise the evil would like this article.

          • Please offer your explanation as to why this is, as you put it, a “stupid, liberalist article”. Facts would be appreciated.

            By the by, bring on the red thumbs.

          • Oh, please.

            Whatever their agenda may be, they happen to be right with the facts, which is enough for me to act upon accordingly.

            There’s only so much stuff to go around, and in this age where anyone and everyone in monetary power looks no further than the next fiscal quarter? I suspect that we’re all going to be in for a rude shock.

      2. Very informative, been thinking about this subject for some time.

        • Peak oil my dick….The US has plenty, I think we just wait till Saudi, Kuwait,Iran, collapse into the giant sinkhole of a dry oilfield…Then we break out the PROVEN 200 YEAR + supply and with NO EXPORTS…imagine that

          • Much of the oil we have is cost-prohibitive to extract. Many previously drilled wells were capped because there was less oil in them than expected. When foriegn oil becomes $200/ barrel those wells will be opened.

            It costs money, and oil, to get the oil out of the ground. Current extraction cost of one barrel of oil, is now only yielding 3-5 barrels out of the ground.

            The oil we have that is easy to extract, such as Alaskan oil, is controlled by BP, and sold on the world market.

            The same extraction costs are there for coal, which is resource intensive, and very polluting. There is no such thing as “clean coal”.

            We have abundant natural gas, but getting it is proving to destroy fresh water aquifers.

            We have waited long enough, (some say we’ve waited too long, as available resources that could have helped bridge to those resources are no longer cost-effective) to start working on alternative sources of energy.

            The PTB have screwed this country royally energy-wise, squandering what we had so they could make make money, and have monopolistic control over vital finite resources.

            • You must get your info straight from the Left.
              Most of what you wrote has proven to be BS.

              I live right in the middle of all of this supposed enviormental destruction and I can tell you it is just plain not there.

            • JustMe – haven’t you heard that trying to reason with a pig wastes your time and annoys the pig? AzFred can think what he wants and he can join the raft of surprised sheeple when it doesn’t manifest. He is living proof of what Dr. Al Bartlett says – the biggest shortcoming of the human race is their inability (I say unwillingness) to understand the exponential function.

            • @Just me, you erroneously stated the following;
               The same extraction costs are there for coal, which is resource intensive, and very polluting. There is no such thing as “clean coal”.

              This statements sounds of Al Gore classics.
              In Colstrip Montana there is a 2200 megawatt coal fired generation station. One of the cleanest in the nation. Why? All of the flue gases are injected into water in a settling pond where the particulate is captured. (The resulting particulate is dried and then used as potash in concrete.) Then the remaining gasses are vented out through 750’ stacks. Lasers are fired through the vented gasses at four positions in the stacks where if there is found to be more than 8 parts per billion, the plant is taken off line. So as a result your assertion that there is no such thing as clean coal, is a bunch of hooey! But let’s go on further driving the point home. I said that the station is a 2200 megawatt station. Now read closely. That’s 2200 megawatts >>>>PER HOUR<<<>PER FRIGGEN HOUR<<.
              Los Angeles CA on a peak day in the summer uses about 42,000 megawatts per day, that’s 1750 megawatts per hour, average. Now let’s extrapolate out some numbers. So you want to go the fabled wind generation. Got any idea of how many Cessna’s on a stick (wind generators) you will need in order to maintain power for the entire day? Of course not, you haven’t got a clue.
              In order to get 42,000 megawatts out of a 1.5 megawatt wind gen you will need, “get ready” 28,000 installations. Now that’s assuming all 28,000 of them will run the entire 24 hour period. They have a tendency to not operate/produce when there is no wind, too much wind, downed for maintenance, just little trivial things like that. Most wind gens operate in a sweet spot, wind between 12mph to 35 mph. outside those parameters, you get NOTHING! But there is a theory that in order to maintain a constant you will need 2.5 times production over demand. So your 28,000 Cessna’s on a stick just rose to 70,000.
              The little ruse that the blow community uses is a little unspoken glitch or slight of hand in the production numbers. A wind gens production is measured in a 24 hour period so as result you get at peak production 1.5 megawatts in 24 hours as opposed to 2200 megawatts coal fired in an “HOUR”, any time you want it 24/7, rain or shine, blow or no blow, peak or not, night or day. So if you get up at 3:35 am and want to take a leak, the light in the bath isn’t contingent on whether you have wind or not and thusly you can hit the hole as opposed to having your wife clean up your misguidance.
              Now let’s talk numbers IE dollars. Recently they installed one of these Cesena’s on a stick on a Government installation near me and its cost was $6,500,000. We for the sake of argument will use that number. (The government always shops for the best price) and you have got to buy 70,000 of these things at $6.5 million a copy. If I have my zeros right that’s a bill of $455,000,000,000. Wanna know what a new 2200 megawatt state of the art coal fired station cost? At today’s prices; between $5 to $6 billion. Oh and let’s not forget your electric bill. Remember, what was it that Obama said; “energy prices would necessarily go up! YA THINK! You might want to rethink your renewable energy horseshit. You aint going to be able to afford the illustrious pie in the sky “clean dream” it’s all smoke and mirrors and BIG dollars buddy.

            • Ed,
              I worked in the oilfields, and have a pretty good idea of what happens there. And, no, I do’nt get anything from “the left”.

            • Hammerun,

              I never listened to Al Gore, so can’t quote him. I never said I would cast my faith in wind turbines either. There are other technologies out there that could have taken hold if not for big-oil. I’m not sold on the coal-thing though, more coal operations are messy than not.

              You seem to know your stuff about the enrgy conversions, so I won’t argue with you. But, I have been in the field, and know a few things about oil. Most of the good hype is misleading.

              I would like as much as anyone for America to be energy independent, but we have been sold out, and finite resources have been squandered.

          • AZFRed: That’s the Plan. It applies to copper, gold, other metals and minerals too. By then OUR technology will be so advanced that WE will again dominate the globe ….

            If We can keep OUR secrets.

            • Satori: I don’t follow Chris Martenson. The few times he posted here were a bust as far as I am concerned.

              I understand that materials are not infinite, thus recycling grows year after year;either to recapture usable materials or use them for fuel.

              Maybe We should eliminate the “grazers” and limit the population to 500 million. All global citizens of course. 🙂

              Energy is the biggest problem and that IS solvable in a number of ways. Drilling for more oil is one way. Thorium nuke plants may be helpful (I am still researching that). Many new technologies on the horizon, too.

              “Clean coal” might be one of those ways if it exists: the water can be recycled, the sulpher extracted, and the tax subsidies eliminated, as WE have a 300 year supply of coal in the USA.

              With increasing costs for fossil fuels that are infinite, solar, tidal, and yes wind turbines offer hope.

              Hammerun: Technology developing in Japan shows that wind turbines will run consistantly in a 3 mph wind.

              This is accomplished by placing a “casing” around the blades that creates turblence and compresses the air going into the blades, magnifying a 3 mph wind by a factor of 3.

              There is a demo on You Tube if you check for it. Between new solar and wind turbines, home owners could turn their homes into individual power stations, if the trillion dollar subsidy for hydrocarbons (including coal) were re-allocated.

              All those foreclosed homes would suddenly have more value and any excess power could be sold to the grid.

          • Hope you are right. I can visualize our politicians selling the oil to countries they think need it more, just like they ‘export democracy’ to countries where half the population can’t read, much less vote intelligently. But I am being pessimistic for some reason… 🙂

          • hmmm
            that power plant in Colstrip sounded like heaven on earth

            UNTIL I did the Google

            my conclusion?

            clean coal ?

            HA HA HA,now thats funny right ther’ I don’t care who you are

            • Well let’s see who rated it. The EPA and the Sierra club (and we all know they’re fair and unbiased) ranked it as the 11th worst for mercury in 2009, by 2010 they cut the emissions by 85 to 90%. What was it 0.8 lbs per trillion BTU. I hope you can do a little better than that.
              That’s pretty weak, dude.

      3. Go preppers!

      4. This is off topic but I would appreciate any feedback. When it comes to barter items post collapse, I don’t feel comfortable bartering any ammo other than 22LR for fear it could come back to haunt me. Was wondering how others felt about this?

        • Well, certainly I wouldn’t trade any to a stranger.

        • Like eveything else; It depends.In Mad Max, during the fast fall there will be very little to barter. In that case, it’s two winters to the botton and it’s everyone for themselves, until it hits. If a stable village system developes trade will go on, with people you know. In general I would not trade ammo with people I don’t know, Asprin, matches, tums, tp, baby clothes, iodine are a better need to fill and cheaper now.

          • I can’t find iodine !!!! I bought a couple of bottles of polar pure a few years ago, any idea for alternatives ??

            • Red wine is high in iodine and great for barter.

            • try Colloidial Silver, you can buy it at healthfood stores for about $15 a pint or make it yourself for about .50 a gallon. It’s easy. Another good reason to have Silver on hand.

        • Very good point Fighting Duck. I didn’t give it any thought but I was not planning to barter with ammo anyway. Someone could trade you something for ammo then come back and try to kill and rob you. I was only planning on bartering with things like toilet paper and cigarettes.

        • @ fighting duck—I dunno- seems to me that anything faster or harder than a MUFFIN isn’t a barter item. would you give someone a machete for an MRE? chances are that the other person is going to have BOTH the MRE AND the machete! Haunt you? hell- it’ll KILL you! 40 grains of lead traveling at supersonic speeds kinda stings before you hit the ground…. dead. not my view of a fair trade. trade non-lethal items ONLY to others.

        • I’d still fear bartering 22LR’s..they still have leathal abilities, and are a hell of alot more quiet than the larger cal’s

        • 10 rounds from a 22 semi-auto can haunt you just as much as a 12 ga buchshot.

        • .22LR can haunt you too.


        • Fighting Duck: Invest in gold, speculate with silver, and HOARD your lead. They won’t be making any more of it after the Changes.

          Even Nappy has grasped that advice as DHS has recently ordered 450 million rounds of hollow point .40 caliber.

          Buy a .40 caliber Glock and you will never run out of ammo! Hear what I am saying? 🙂

        • I would not barter any ammo to anybody in a SHTF situation.

          • I will barter anything with anybody in shtf situ. Gun dealers do it all the time. Gotta have someone watching your back at all times.

            I think most of us will be doing a lot of things we have said we would never do. I know I’ll be eating stuff that I hate and I really hate the taste of crow.

        • Duck, I have quite a few rounds of the varmint 22 rounds. They have little pellets instead of a solid slug of metal. These I would consider bartering. I’ve killed a few rabbit and squirrel with these as a kid. Also, I was shot with one by a cousin many years ago. My grandfather’s old WW2 thick canvas coat stopped them dead. Oh it stung like heck and left a heck of a bruise. You would have to be right on top of someone to do any real damage. The odds of these coming back to haunt you are low. Remember, bartering early on in a SHTF scenario may show someone else that you have what they don’t. A dangerous situation at best.

      5. These factors combined with the increase in natural disasters – earthquakes, tornados, etc. … we’re in for some rough times ahead.

        I believe TPTB are trying to “move things” along faster.

      6. Yes, you are so right. It’s all going to come crashing
        down, and soon. MY best guestimate is that it’ll be a
        virus, flu or something. With the ever-increasing pop-
        ulation, it’s only a matter of time until some strain
        mutates (aids, for instance, becomes transmittable by
        or through the air, by coughing and sneezing) and wipes
        out 90% of the population. There’s not gonna be any
        stopping it, either. Look at Jakarta, or Guatamala…..
        what do you have? Idiots and morons, low IQ’s, and all
        they know how to do is reproduce. You’re wasting your
        time writing about this subject, only a VERY small
        percentage of people (4%?) actually READ or UNDERSTAND
        what you are talking about, and the rest? Well, they
        simply couldn’t care less. Thus the term, “SHEEPLE”.

        • This is something not many people want to talk about. No creature on earth has the ability to fool mother nature into thinking they can reproduce into the environment to numbers that just keep rising. Lemmings, voles, deer, rabbits, all examples of over-population that causes massive die-offs. Wars, disease and starvation are results of over-population. Nature takes care of the planet.

        • @Gyron,

          I agree wholly except for one point. The virus or flu will be manmade and deliberatly released in order to control who lives and who dies. The writing has been on the wall for decades; I have been saying what this article points out for as long as I have been posting here. There are simply too many of us competing for fewer resources, and there is no alternative energy source on the horizon that contains anywhere near the energy density of fossil fuels. The use of fossil fuels in modern agriculture (read megafarms), plus our temporary mastery over disease, has allowed our population to balloon to unimagineable levels. I am certain that there are those among the elites who have recognized this and have planned accordingly. There is not a lack of resources on this planet; there are simply too many people using those resources. If the elites don’t cull our numbers, Mother Nature will. It is as simple as that.

        • The author of this post might be very interested in the YouTube video “Culling The World’s Humans.”

      7. The Green movement is working feverishly to make this dream come true. I actually met a guy who said to me that, if the population were to be reduced by 90%, he would be willing to be one to die. My answer was, in short, “Good, more for us”.

        Seriously, given that so many governments in poor and over-populated nations have shown themselves, be not only incompetent, but unwilling to apply technology and rational management skill to the benefit of their citizens, the MIT study is probably close to prophesy. What follows is war upon war, which does tend to reduce the population a bit. Hopefully not here, but with little o and his gang it seems they are hell-bent on making it happen.

        • Check out how many African governments are buying(often by force) productive farms off the people and turning them into non productive farms. I work with several South Africans who have left SA just for that reason.

      8. Just look at what happens any time you walk into a room
        full of people, or a crowded group, say at a mall.
        One out of every three or four children is ‘coughing’,
        ‘sneezing’, or rubbing their sticky little fingers all
        over everything. Their parents just adore their little
        monsters, and would never do anything to restrict their
        freedoms, or try to stop the spread of their children’s
        germs. Schools are breeding grounds for germs and
        I try to stay away from small children as much as
        possible, but many adults can be found openly sneezing
        or coughing, on the bus, in the restaurant, you name it.
        When you have the intellect of a small houseplant,
        all you care about is American Idol, what will you eat
        next, and who are ya gonna screw. Nobody has time or
        desire to educate themselves about what’s wrong with
        our society and our planet. It’s all gonna crash down.

        • just some info that I thought I would share re diease colds etc. This is TRU info for a surgon from waaaay back in the day. Antibacterial soap is NOT good. It contains antibiotic ( chech active ingrediant in such soap) it builds up in your system causes antibiotic resistance. Second I worked in a hospital and now a grocery store, they are the dirtiest places. I learned ALOT at both. Forst take a hospital. It is not the patientce being sick that is the scary thing, it is what is on the surfaces. Think about the next time you go visit somebody in a hospital, you just walked on a floor that may have had bloodl, sputem etc. In a parking lot at your local store, blood and maybe sputem, urine etc. TAKE YOUR SHOES OFF when you come home. Second as a shopper pne day at my locl store I saw a woman picking, no drilling her nose then putting items into her cart (YUCK) then deciding she dod not want them and put them back on the shelf. Now these cans had her snot on em. She did this all throughout the store, I was sceaved out to say the least. This was also during the H1N1 sccare and I had a newborn. Needless to say I carry Lysol with me and spray my bagged food I just bought in my trunk before it comes inot my house. Germ a phobe I think not because let me add I now work there and what I see now is even worse. Kids lick the doors to the deli counter, carts etc. worried about a pandemic? do not tough your face wash your hands with regular Ivory soap and warm water. Take your shoes off BEFORE going into your house (spray wm with Lysol) Clean whatever comes into your home. Keep your family safe. It is work but I tell you the year with H1N1 when I did all that crazy stuff NOT ome person was sick in my house. Please stop using antibacterial soap it is no good for you.

          • Yep, hospitals have the worst germs! Think about it, thats why many are there, an infection of some sort that could not be cured in the community. These bugs could always be transferred to an unsuspecting visitor by many vectors. You are dead on with antibacterial soap as well. It just leaves the stronger bugs to do their business, and now they can do their business unencumbered by their natural enemies you probably killed with the AB soap.

        • I have the intellect of a LARGE houseplant!

        • Gyron, Two words “shopping carts” When I go to the grocery store, you should see the looks I get as I disinfect my cart. I am not germ-phobic, but when you see kids putting their mouths on the cart handle, or some of the nasty looking people using the carts, oh yeah I clean it before I use it.
          I worked pediatrics for a couple years as a Nurse. The best advice I ever got, was after telling my children’s pediatrician, that I always seem to be bring something home even though I strip down at the back door of my house and put them right in the laundry and shower immediately. He told me while doing his residency his mentor told him to gargle deeply before going home with Listerine (I use the generic version). I have done this for awhile now no matter where I am working and I have reduced the amount my kids and I get sick to almost nonexistent. Hope this helps!

      9. The study has a preconceived agenda, so probably is not valid, but the comments about debt are salient.

        Wealth is created when a raw material is combined with labor to produce a transferable product worth more than the inputs. That is it. There is no other way to create real wealth. The entire political and financials elites exists by leveraging (i.e. debt) this plinth of real wealth creation 100’s or 1000’s of times.

        Once trust in fictitious wealth vanishes so does the society (or if every creator of “Real” wealth stops or slows down).

        • I think you’re right oldboy, but I almost look forward to it… Because when that finally happens, people with real skills and abilities will be highly in demand.

      10. I read this yesterday on Yahoo news and the discussion board there was pitiful. The common theme from most people was, “well man has been predicting the end of the world for centuries and we are still here”. Normalcy bias at it’s finest I suppose, but I remembered that we are talking about Yahoo news here, might as well have been MSNBC.

        • So what’s your point. You take both sides of the argument and then expect an intelligent responce. A good number of responders on this site post the same way. Pick a side and make your points.

      11. I don’t see this thing going on until 2030. I see it coming down much quicker than that.

        I’ll be real surprised if we go another 5 years. And I’m being conservative with that.

        We are one major calamity away from this whole house of cards coming down.

        • I’ll be 80 in 2030, seems about the right time to me.

          • Dosvidanya…

            • до свидания

        • Walt K, I’m right there with you on the “much sooner than we think”, idea. If the educated idiots start putting out long term dates, that just prolongs those, that were thinking about prepping, to just keep with the status quo. Even if God isn’t ready for our collapse to happen until then, 2030; He may throw us a curve to see who’s paying attention. In my bible studies this week, I’m studying the story of Joseph, my forefather, since my Lineage, primarily goes back to the tribe of one of his first born sons. I tried to imagine what life was like back then and how much work went into “prepping” for the seven years of drought and famine. The amounts of grain and grape wine that had to be stored just to keep the populations of people alive for that long would have been staggering; even without considering all the animals. Just a one year drought/famine worldwide with a 50% loss of crop harvest would result in millions of deaths in our time. Without getting into a drawn out discussion; I believe we crossed a line/mark in history which started the seven year tribulation period back in the summer of 2008. There were, and are, many indicators for my reasoning on this. I’m prepared for it either way. What I’m not prepared for, are the masses of sheeple that are playing ostrich. When their SHTF and they come my way; ???? Let’s just say, “Hope their ready to meet their Maker”.

          • I think it is telling how you describe yourself as a Christian yet at the end of your post you imply that you are going to send God a lot of souls his way.
            Now I am not a Christian and don’t profess any Christian love so for me there is no contradiction in doing what you say you will do. So the long and short of it is that you are a hypocrite.

            • Ok. No interest there.

              So. Has anyone made compost, from only grass clippings and leaves? I turned my pile today after the first week. The temperature in the middle was 152 degrees. That is with no cow manure, and with maybe a hand full of veggie trimmings, and a little bit of soil mixture. I have another compost pile, four feet high, that is mature and ready for the garden that has about fourteen gallons of fresh, locally shat, open range cow manure,veggy trimmings, grass clippings, and coffee grounds with egg shells. That is what I have my purple egg plant and crook kneck yellow squash growing in right now, with top soil added.
              I think this may be my fourth post, I mainly come and read, and some of you truly amaze me with your intellectual property and grand sense of humor!
              Great articles, too.
              later. Oh. And don’t let SHTF!

        • I wonder if they considered this scenario:

          Global Warming: What the government isn’t telling you.

          Planet X: What the government isn’t telling you.

          By John Moore. Search Youtube. Damn well worth taking the time to watch, if for no other reason than just considering “possible” scenarios. Personally, I believe there is more truth in these videos than most realize. Very informative.

      12. Sounds good to me! If we cant make something of this world, or “reverse” what fuels “collapse” then we needn’t care about a massive population drop. I dont see anyone physically taking on (through physical force or monetary deprivation) the powers that be (Govt,Corps) so we’ve all basically asked for it. What did we expect? Keep on preppin!

        And please feel free to post what you expected… Or solutions!

      13. Finally, the 800 lb gorilla and the monster elephant in the room are recognized. Look at a world population chart, it’s similar to the debt charts everyone here is familiar with. You know, the one that looks like a hockey stick standing on its blade (blade to the left). The primary enabler of that population growth was cheap energy in the form of oil and its many by-products. UNSUSTAINABLE. Oil costs will continue to increase as the population continues to increase until it can’t.

      14. Three words…..RESOURCE BASED ECONOMY! Do the research and draw your own conclusions. In short, applying the Scientific Method to social concern….something that has never been tried or offered before. Before any “ism”, there is a life ground, and that life ground is everything required for ALL of us to take our next breath. We have to re-set everything down to that life ground, and from there, begin to rebuild this planet for the benefit of all life, and resources, on this planet. Simple math…..we can’t have infinite growth, on a finite planet, and expect to survive indefinitely as a species.

      15. MIT didn’t come up with this idea all by their selves, they had a little help. They had a little insight from this joker below.

        “The notion that persons should be safe from extermination as long as they do not commit willful murder, or levy war against the Crown, or kidnap, or throw vitriol, is not only to limit social responsibility unnecessarily, and to privilege the large range of intolerable misconduct that lies outside them, but to divert attention from the essential justification for extermination, which is always incorrigible social incompatibility and nothing else.”
        Source: George Bernard Shaw, “On the Rocks” (1933), Preface.
        “We should find ourselves committed to killing a great many people whom we now leave living, and to leave living a great many people whom we at present kill. We should have to get rid of all ideas about capital punishment …
        A part of eugenic politics would finally land us in an extensive use of the lethal chamber. A great many people would have to be put out of existence simply because it wastes other people’s time to look after them.”
        Source: George Bernard Shaw, Lecture to the Eugenics Education Society, Reported in The Daily Express, March 4, 1910.
        “The moment we face it frankly we are driven to the conclusion that the community has a right to put a price on the right to live in it … If people are fit to live, let them live under decent human conditions. If they are not fit to live, kill them in a decent human way. Is it any wonder that some of us are driven to prescribe the lethal chamber as the solution for the hard cases which are at present made the excuse for dragging all the other cases down to their level, and the only solution that will create a sense of full social responsibility in modern populations?”
        Source: George Bernard Shaw, Prefaces (London: Constable and Co., 1934), p. 296.

      16. As long as we keep paying people to have babies around here, there will continue to be population booms (in the wrong group too – the moochers).

        If you accept welfare, you should get a birth control shot along with your check. No Shot. No Check.

        In a “normal” situation, the population would just decrease due to mature adults looking at the situation and realizing that they cannot afford to have 3, 4 or 5 kids anymore. Some couples might have none, others just one. A generation or two of that would slow things down.

          more talk of sustainable this and unsustainable that.
          there is plenty of room on this earth for everyone and there is plenty of food , we just need the governments to get their hands out of the farming basket

          • We are not running out of anything except liberties and common sense.

          • AMEN! I live in a farm area and have a good friend that is a farmer let me assure everyone that farmers get paid to loose their crops. Ever since that willy nelson farm aid thing when the goverment paid out money to the farmers it is now QUICK money for farmers to grow and let the crop die for the money. it is sad I see it where I live every year a vast amount of perfect crop gets left for dead, so many hungary and could be fed well of the goverment got out of farming and subsidising crop loss

        • Mr.B….Pass that idea on to the latest legislation they passed?? No welfare until drug check.
          Test positive, no check for a year( I think)??

        • My 28 year old son has 3 children and is on his forth, wife is pregant. Considering the coming collapse I have counsled him it is a bad idea however he wants a “Dynasty”. Note also he got $1500 tax credit for each dependent. Total $7500- He bought a car with it.
          So basicaly the goverment rewards people for having more people.
          Tjhe reaity is people do not want to hear about any Population control ie ourselves voluntarily controlling population so nature will do it for us the hard way.

      17. Farm land….will kick the butt out of Gold as a serious investment. Why else is Soro’s buying it up at .75 cents an acre in Africa. That DOG I wish I could buy a few thousand acres at that price.

        • There is no apostrophe in Soros. Why would there be?

          J. Thomas (not Thoma’s)

      18. MIT alma mater of Ben Bernake. SARC

      19. This is total fucking bullshit. Who in the hell, on God’s green earth can predict what will happen tomorrow, let alone what will happen in fuckin 2030??????

        • Stan: Who? Many actually. Prediction is nothing new. Neither is trend analysis. The question is not “Who?” but, “Who is to be believed?”

          In the late 30’s and early 40’s Edgar Cayce predicted the Rise of China and a Pole Shift where a new South Pole would manifest in the South Atlantic Ocean.

          China has Risen.

          The new South Pole is forming in the South Atlantic under a humongous magnetic anomaly. It is being studied by the best and brightest scientists WE have.

          And then there is Mother Shipton ….. might want to check SHTF Earth Changes and/or SHTF Teotwawki for more info.

          The trends identified by MIT are contingent upon US continuing down the same path under the same parameters. Change the parameters and you change the game. isn’t that what prepping is all about?

          My Peeps, We have the power of choice. We can change the world We live in and WE can change OUR managers.

          Nothing is set in stone unless WE do nothing.

        • Many of the situations we face today were predicted 20 years ago, but no-one wanted to hear it…

        • Stan

          It’s easy to predict the occurance of big things like the end of a non-renewable resource. You are correct that it is impossible to predict the exact timing of that event. Just like floods, earthquakes and hurricanes – I can predict with 100 % certainty that a catastrophic earthquake (Richter > 7.0) will hit on the San Andreas Fault. When? well, that’s another matter entirely. But it is reasonable to project the life a resource (e.g.oil) given what we know about the size of the resource (2×10^12 barrels plus or minus, about half left in the ground) and the rate of consumption (3.0×10^10 barrels per year). Can you set your watch by this calculation – of course not. But given the impact to society (i.e. it will change absolutely everything we do), we should make the best estimate we can and take appropriate action.

          Of course, you personally have the option of not preparing. Many Polish and Czech Jews chose to stay in Europe in the middle 1930s. I hope whatever you choose works out for you.

      20. I don’t believe the study. I don’t believe that populations will rise dramatically and then decline drastically below the numbers we have today. I also don’t believe in the “peak oil” nonsense. The US has enough proven reserves to last 200 years. I think the evil people involved are making a case for genocide. We’ll have an economic collapse that will lead to the deaths of millions but it’s not something predictable based on populations and resources.

          • well people all over the world had better stop doing the nasty NOW


            and as for abiotic oil ??
            your kidding right??
            lets assume it is true
            if it is occurring it is so incredibly slow a process
            that it is irrelevant in a human life time

            and as for all that oil in Bakken and the Green River Shale

            let me direct you to a site called THEOILDRUM

            I dont have time to AGAIN debunk this foolishness

      21. Wars and rumors of wars….Mitt can’t win and BO should not win. I expect big trouble/panic if the polls are close coming into Nov. (Watch gun sales this Fall).
        Without a stable U.S. all bets are off, I hope that I’m wrong, but my gut telss me that I’m not.

        • tells me

        • AC: Mitt can win if that is the other choice and only other choice WE have.

          Barry is from Kenya, born in a hospital there, with a real birth certificate on file (with a footprint.

          By November, O’Bummer may very well be barred from the ballot for a number of states. Biden
          or Hillary might have to jump in at the last moment.

          Justice might be delayed, but it cannot be denied. Life is full of surprises.

          • DK,

            Mitt Romney is NOT a “choice”, but another sock-puppet lackey. The only reason he would be installed, would be to placate the duopoly party-faithful.

            You may be right about Obummer, being replaced by Hillary, she is more amenable to the parasite’s agenda.

            I sure hope you are right about the “justice” part…

      22. It may not be the lack of resources that decimates the population. It may be that many populations will be priced out of the game. This is already starting many places and will eventually land here in America.While we may have plenty of resources here in America, they will always go to the highest bidder, not necessarily us.

        • JRS – the Irish potato famine mark II?

          That makes a LOT of sense to me.

      23. The Fed has been in an ongoing currency war with China. Now fed corp drone bases are going up in the Pacific and a base in Australia. They are trying to encircle China.Needless to say, this is pissing China off.This will not end well. Bullish for the MIC. Bearish for the young soldier.

        • The FED and the CCP are partners. Its “trust but verify”, plus encircle. The fact is every day brings the the Chinese and American economy and our collective business relationships close together and more entwined.

          If I lived in India or Russia I would be concerned about China. But US? Not much profit in destroying your best customer base.

          Follow the money.

          • Right about Russia. Lots of goodies in Siberia, and much easier to get at than in North America.

      24. 2030? Nope, not buying it!! No way we can last that long, someone is going to nuke someone else, and the house of cards WILL collapse! MIT…Hmmm, watch the other hand, people…watch the other hand!!

        • Yea, thats what I think too! wach the other hand!

      25. Barn Cat

        I’m with you on this one. My gut feeling is that all this is an excuse for the genocide that will follow the financial collapse.

        I keep thinking of the wonders of modern technology and robotics + the Norman period of English History. The elite ruled most of the lands, with just enough serfs to keep it all ticking over nicely without the need for the elites to clean their own middens iykim.

        A vast expanse of land, & natural resources for the taking, minus the inconvenience of keeping a huge swathe of disease ridden poor people pacified is probably the wet dream of elites.

        The doomsday heritage seed banks in Norway and elsewhere, just add to my sense of unease.

        Then I took the time to read Agenda 21.

        The dots I’m connecting are looking increasingly ugly. The elites never get their OWN hands dirty if they can help it. If they can convince the population to turn on itself via divide and conquer & war, either international or Civil then they will.

        I don’t think they’ll use Nucleur weapons – I think it’ll be a viral attack, combined with the adverse health effects of mass poverty. Greece is already seeing a large upsurge in malaria, TB & HIV cases.

        For many the SHTF is happening already – just talk to the US tent city inhabitants, the 24m victims of slave trafficking or the Greeks. What’s your life expectancy as a resident of a tent city? I’m fairly sure it’s a lot lower than your average suburban inhabitant.

        The over developed sense of entitlement and arrogance of most of the Western World will see to it that as the milk and honey of the fiat system runs dry, things will turn nasty.

        We could all survive as a species on this planet sustainably, trouble is ever since Tesla a clear choice has been made by greedy individuals in positions of power to squander the natural creativity & human intelligence of mankind as a whole – in favour of wanton self-interest and greed at the expense of both the planet and our species as a hole.

        The only solution is to remove these individuals from their spheres of influence. Divide and conquer keeps us blaming each other and watchin TV instead of focusing our attention on the cancerous individuals eating our species alive.

      26. Think in levels…
        Ex. You loose your job and can’t pay the mort.
        Or… Crop failer…
        Or… pandemic.
        Anyway you slice it… Prep up and then no worries.

        Also…pays to focus on extreme planning.
        Ex. I keep two cases of bird shot….and I feed the birds and squirrels the left overs.
        This keeps my wildlife stocks, well fed and populating.

        All you who busted on Buffalo, NY…
        I have all the great lakes rolling water by us down the street..plenty of water.
        Cheap housing.
        I have a nice job and I prepped up on more education.
        Planing a doomsday business and one for good times.
        The community is nice.
        To the south…plenty of woods with game, trees to cut for heat.
        All those that laughed at the snow…. Folks…it’s water.

        Water will be the big issues as the Texas ground water runs out.

        My latest prep…
        What I call a Buffalo Box…
        Cold frame, but wth a cable soil heater, using free windows off of craigs list.
        I plan on growing greens.

        Folks…make a game of prepping.
        Do it bit by bit.
        My favorite gun.. Ruger 10 22 semi.
        Cheap ammo.

        If you just tune your mind and adjust your thinking….things will be fine.

        Just stay out of debt…cut up the cards and tell the banks to suck your dick…

        Next year’s prep…a large tank where i’ll grow shrimp.

        peace to all.

        Oh yeah one more thing….
        Get used to change…the greatest generation have died off…the boomers are in charge. Churches are for sale on main st. the generation behind me…I was born in 1965 will be in very bad shape.

        Folkd will need to focus on their kids and set them up.
        Go tangible… metals and real estate.
        Don’t leverage things. Live low and learn.

        Mac, nice site. You the man!

        Here’s your homework….
        Everyone buy some maylar bags, some oxygen absorber packets and put up some
        rice, rolled oats and beans…then you’ll all sleep better. Just pass on the lates apple shit. We’ll all be find.

        Warning to gangs who think they will do whatever they want…
        We are all corporate folks. We will plan well and be ready for you if you
        enter our lives with intended violence…..10 fold will be inflicted upon you.

      27. My cup run over. You can only have a finite amount of people in a certain amount of space before the lack of resources hits and people starve and more importanly terrible diseases develop. Has happen again and again throughout isolated area that run out of resources. Best recent example is Haiti. All the resources were used up in the hills and mountains and people go down hill from here. Easter Island was assumed to have run out of resources and the people died off. Food resources are most important and the actual amount of arable land there is to grow food.

        Most countries do not have much arable land at all. Arable land is what you can grow crops on. The United States, the breadbasket of the world ONLY has 18% arable land. That is 82% land that crops really cannot grow on because of rocky soil, salt pans, deserts, lack of water, slope restrictions, already been urbanized, just plain bad land. Very few countries that have much land also have arable land to go along with it. The U.S. still leads the pack with about 636,000 square miles of arable land. This may seem like a lot but it really isn’t considering this is for 310 million people plus the export to other countries.

        I came up with a little formula that anyone curious about other countries and regard to arable land someone can plug into and see if that country is self sufficient when it comes to food production or needs to purchase food or get aid from other countries.

        First you get the total land square miles of land of a country. Then you get the percentage of arable land and multiply this to get the total sq. miles of arable land. You then get the population of the country and divide it by the total square miles of arable land. This will give you the number of people per square mile of arable land. Figures for population, sq. miles, and precentage of arable land can be found in the World Almanac or other resources on geography from someplace like wikipedia. You will find almost all countries are between about 120-8000 people per sq. mile of arable land.

        Here is an example: New Zealand has 4,300,000 people with 103,000 sq. miles of land and 6% arable land. 103,000 sq miles X 6% arable land = 6,180 sq. miles of arable land. Now divide 4,300,000 people by 6,180 square miles to get 696 people per square mile of arable land. New Zealand is a net exporter of food as seems to be the case of countries between 120 and about 1200. There are of course exceptions to this in drought stricken areas that would normally have good fertile land.

        India has the second most sq. miles of arable land with 562,000, but because of its extreme population has a much higher ratio of number of people per sq miles of arable land at 2,085 per sq mile of arable land. It seems like countries that break this 1800-2000 level they are in need of imported food or their people go hungry. Even Chile a exporter of much citrus and avocadoes must import food to their country, their number is 1,951. Japan at 7,494 people per sq. mile of arable land and South Korea at 7,727 would be worse off than North Korea if they did not have the money to pruchase import food from other countries.

        Australia at 121 people per sq. mile of arable land is a top exporter of food when there country is not under severe weather blights. Other countries such Canada at 193, Argentina at 390, Ukraine at 375, even Brazil at 880 are those that feed the world of those that cannot. When one plugs in these numbers they will be SHOCKED to see just how little fertile land there is in regards to population.

        Now here is the thing. Each year more and more land is tranformed into unusable land. Farmland becomes leeched with too many minerals and salts from overuse. Those percentages of arable land drops and population increases. Fertilizers are becoming more and more expensive as much of them comes from petroluem products. Pesticides become less effective as bugs adapt. It is a formula for disaster.

        I have heard many people say that the people of this world could fit into the state of Florida holding hands and there is not a food storage problem. You can also fit comfortably everyone on the surface of the moon if it has an atmosphere, but how would you feed them?

        Now try to imagine taking one square mile of good land and feed about 1000 people on that land alone. It can be done, but the land will requaire some renewel projects after a couple of decades to reamin fertile. Now try to imagine feeding 5,000 people or maybe 25,000 people. Won’t happen on this planet. There is a breaking point to what is called resource management. 2000-3000 people per sq miles of arable land is probably that breaking point.

        People say they can grow food on rooftops, in the ocean, in backyards. Maybe in well organized industry countries to a point, but people fail to understand the water issue and many other reasons such as weather. Growing seasons drop off sharply past 35 degrees north or south of the equator. When someone looks at the food issue of this world with geographic facts it is frightening to see how things add up to well for future hunger for most of the world, if not all.

        There are no good answers as you cannot force people like in China to only have one child, and the resources will run out. Either Mother Nature will take care of this with some plague like what happens with all life forms that become too abundant. Or people will simply die off from hunger. Or the most likely is that people will fight ferociously over what is left, probably sooner than later.

        I don’t think we have to wait until 2030 for the fight over resources. This is why it is so important for people to put away their own supplies and get ready as possible themselves. Facts and figures do not lie, there is a problem with food that is only going to get worse. As I was watching that National Geographic Preppers this very wise person was talking about just how much the food he orginially put away is worth now. Food shortages mean expensive prices if you can even get it. The more food you can put away and try to rotate it and keep it fresh the better off you and your family will be. Always try to take advantage of specials and sales because they may never come back.

        • Outstanding post!

        • @Be Informed
          Good post, a lot thought. However though, what you suppose the solution is to the remaining problem? What is the problem? Too many people of course. Now what do you do? Have a mass kill off? Have selection panel to determine who is worthy to remain? We’re in this up to our necks and sinking. Or do we wait and let nature take its course. Mass pandemics in past history have for the most part whittled down the population to a manageable number. It’s likely we are due for another one, soon. Man for the most part thinks he is pretty cleaver, and someone here thinks they have the solution, “kill a lot of people” man as a whole isn’t very bright in the big picture. I feel there are countries that will suffer a small percentage while others will for the most will cease to exist.

          • @ Hammerun. The real issue here is to prepare yourself because it is coming the day when food will not be on the shelves. It only takes an agricultral disease or a climatic change to trash our food. The purpose of this formula ios to show how we are all teetering on the brink of a major catastrophic food crisis. There are ONLY about 20 countries that can actually feed the rest of the world. Australia has gone through some awful weather related disasters and it has affected how much food it can grow, produce, and ship to the tables of other countries depending on it.

            Haiti has 3,149 people per square mile of arable land and without aid the people would simply die. IF those countries that are the breadbaskets of the world go down, those that depend on that food are in deep trouble. People assume that there is so much land, without understanding that most of this land is not farmable. back in college we did a land assessment of land that could grow food in Southern California and it was amazing just how little land could grow something, even where much food is grown. Can’t grow a field of tomatoes on solid rock.

            The solution. Sadly there are none good ones. Nature has this uncanny way of thinning out the population of all life forms on this planet, animal and plant life. All we can do as preppers and survivalist is be ready for it and try to store up and gain as much knowledge as we can about survival to attempt to try to make it through a true SHTF event(s).

            You look at human history and most wars have resources as one of the keys to aggressions. Hitler aminly attacked the Soviet Union for the oil reserves it had. Japan attacked Indonesia for again oil. Some wars are fought over philosphies, but that underlining reason of lack of resources seems to be woven in there someplace. Look at the Middle East. The real war over water and food will be even more ugly than even energy because everyone needs water, especially to grow food.

            Plug in some countries and see just how little land there and how desperate the world really is. Another example would be The Netherlands at 5,874. Without their metal and engineering products, electrical machinery, chemicals, especially their microelectronics industries they could buy and purchase food from other countries. If there was not food excess from countries like the U.S. the dutch would be desperate to feed their people.

            Unfortunately people seem to only try to find a solution to a problem after it is upon them and suffocating them. This is why I like preppers and survivalists so much, they see it beforehand and try to get ready for it. They also don’t listen to the mass media that feeds us vile garbage that everything is rosy fine. We have a big food problem and the best solution is to get ready yourself because most people just are not concerned about it and can’t see it. Sad isn’t it?

        • @Be informed

          Yet we already KNOW the solutions for preserving our soils and even bringing poor soil back into productive use. Reforestation and permaculture are skills/knowledge being purposely ignored by the greedy coorporations in favour of agri-business.

          We know that the 1-2 acre family homestead is FAR more productive per square foot of land than the huge mono-agrifarms yet everywhere these small-scale enterprises are being forced out in favour of the capatilist version of Stalin’s collective farms. The huge Russian coolectivisation experiment failed as will the Monsanto monoliths.

          The corp know this and preserve the genetic diversity of their OWN future food supplies with seed banks (google the Norway seed bank) as they inflict mono-strains upon the rest of us.

          Save your locally grown heirloom seeds – your children will thank you. If you are lucky enough to have some land – plant a few fruit & nut trees for the benefit of your kids and grandkids.

      28. Today’s National Debt Clock:

        There are other factors not really touched on, such as fresh water aquifer depletion. Here in the US, the largest is the Oglala Aquifer, which is being pumped out at a rate of 1 foot/ day, to service farms.

        A little known factor of pumping well water onto the ground is the change in soil PH, which burns out the soil faster…Which leads to more chemicals (synthetic fertilizers) being pumped into/onto the ground, which helps deplete the soil…A lot of farmland will end up like the “dustbowls” of days past.

        Then there is the slaughter of trees. As you read this, another football-sized area of land is being stripped of trees, much of it in rain forests.

        How about the acidification of the oceans, and the dead-zones left behind by offshore drilling. Are you aware that there are areas of our oceans that have NO oxygen content, like the North Sea (but hey, BP cashed in…). The oceans’ larger fish are being wiped out, catches are now focusing on the “medium” sized fish. And many fish are now cancerous…

        Nothing to worry about here, pop another Prozo, and wash it down with a beer, there’s a stupid game on TV, where overpaid morons chase balls…

        • When you say rainforest, you really mean jungle. Rainforest just sounds more pleasant. Planet Earth will right itself. Humans are a mere annoyance. Our numbers will be adjusted one way or another.

          • Not neccessarily just jungle, as in the Amazon, but even here in the Pacific Northwest, far too many trees are cut for those they replace. Ever see a before and after affects of clear-cutting? It’s bad. But not an issue everyone notices.

            I hope you are right that the Earth can right it’s self.

      29. the majority of the population increase has been in china and india, not the rest of the world. China will be heading for a population crash due to thier failed one child policy and India has it’s own issues to worry about.

        this whole idea of the population exploding is nonsense to beging with for the increase level is in two countries, of which we are not even sure the given population numbers are even truthful.

        In my county, the population according to our own date has remained exatly the same, if not shrunk a little, for the last 40 years. Howeverm housing and car ownership as increased.

        we need to look at the brithrates to determine population growth and the majority of the planet has a birth rate of 1.5 child, not enough to even sustain current populations levels.

        if India and China have fudged thier books, which they reason to do, to get more aid from the UN, the entire population rate could be a scam.

        so, over population is a hoax to pass more gloabal taxes and nothing more.

        • I’m almost 50.Way back in grade school the so called experts would scare the hell out of kids about how the world would end by the mid 1980’s because of war , polution over population bla bla bla bla-OH I almost forgot- globle cooling!
          Sorry M.I.T., not going to buy it!

      30. What a bunch of bullshit!! This is just another tax-payer funded study by a bunch of fucking moonbats with their PhDs in L.L. Bean; driving around in their Smart Cars with Obama 2012 bumper stickers while we sit here like a bunch of suckers.

        We’ll all going to get a red-hot poker up the ass WAY BEFORE 2030!!

      31. I’ll pass on the hot poker..

        the rest..




      32. Auntie commie:
        So your 62 yrs young huh? I didnt picture you a day over 49. I hope it makes it that far too,but iI don’t see it happening…

      33. Jevon’s paradox.

        Doesn’t matter, we’ll all be radioactive long before that happens.

        Nuclear sub-cutaneous cold fusion with gummy worms! Go to sleep… go to sleep…

      34. 2030? forget it; it has already started

        goodbye humans….


        Thanks for the link I watched it all. The reason for my interest there was a person that mentioned this technology (in a unique way) and its capabilities back in 2008. This guy was a brilliant engineer and always had to leave at a moments notice. He new a hell of a lot, but he only asked me questions like – what if there was a system that could cause earthquakes?

        For now I’ll be playin’ Bodies by Drowning Pool as I empty some mags from my SIG P220. Love it – thanks again!

        Y’all Beware!

        • @Y’all Beware … ;0) thank you for watching it. The more people learn of what they are doing to us, the more will join Our Cause – KNOWLEDGE TRUTH is the GREATEST WEAPON OF ALL!

          When enough innocent people are murdered by the IMF NWO CFR U.N. CIA yale harvard BilderBoyBugger elitists … the COMMON MAN WOMAN will AWAKE , forget his her fears and his her RAGE AND ANGER will GUIDE HIS HER HAND and focus their rifle sights upon the NWO and all those who serve it’s Evil programs of eugenics carbon credit tax debt slavery Death!

          The common people DEBT SLAVE SERF’S by means of REVOLUTION shall once again TAKE OFF the HEADS OF FALSE wanna be KINGS tyrants, CORRUPT BANKERS and their evil FOOTMEN!

          IT’S COMING … PREPARE!

          p.s. as a personal note to you… map out virginia’s sky line drive hwy! i spent many a night in my youth camping up there in the meadows with friends. good bug out location from where you now live!


      36. Where, oh where, is Steven Earl Salmony when we need him? I thought for sure he’d be first to comment on this article. I even had my Large Dictionary Of Large Words all set out and ready so I could understand him. Dang! I’m feelin’ kinda let down…
        Still, there seems to be room for a bit more to be said on this very salient topic. (don’t ask me what salient means. I just look ’em up and try to spell ’em right. Definitions are beyond me)
        Now, for all you peak oil, peak water and peak everything else believers, here’s my theory: We are actually seeing the beginnings of ‘The Age Of Peak Peaks.’ It gets a little complicated, but stay with me. The theory, in it’s early inception, was first articulated by a very wise, very old, (not)very sober old man in my neighborhood back in the 1950s. He repeated it to me, with slight modifications in the 70s. I took the theory, added some changes of my own and, when the old man died in 1983, I figured “hey, it ain’t plagarism if nobody is alive to sue me” so here it is:
        Within the next decade the world will begin to run completely out of things which are about to peak. There’ll still be a few around, but less and less each year, and they’ll get very expensive. Only the rich will be able to afford them. Plus, all the good peaks have been spoken for, so all we have left is the crummy little peaks.
        And these lesser peaks provide constantly diminishing returns of Public Panic Per Bushel of Peak (PPPBP). For example, today we only get 1 and 1/2 bushels of panic for each bushel of peak invested. And that’s with the tried and true peaks like oil or cropland. Just barely at break even after you subtract the taxes and other overhead.
        The newer peaks, such as rare earth minerals, don’t even show a taxable panic level at all. People just push those for the fun of it, I guess.
        The latest estimates from the U S Dept of Peak Panic Measurement project a dramatic fall in the next 10 years for every class of peak. They simply can’t be sustained at current levels.
        What the theory of The Age Of Peak Peaks ultimately points to is a worldwide population of folks who simply cannot be shocked into panic. No matter what the claimed reason for the panic is. They will be so jaded, and so numbed as to be totally unflappable. When that day finally comes, and here is the scary part of the whole theory, the people will simply go willingly into total enslavement. They’ll know about it but they just won’t care.
        They will spend their days watching mindless garbage on television, they’ll work hard in exchange for fiat currency which they know to be worthless, they’ll send their kids to government indoctrination camps labeled as schools, they’ll even borrow huge sums to send themselves to advanced indoctrination camps called colleges. They’ll act as if they honestly believe everything the rulers tell them. They will stage public debates over whether to be the slaves of a RIGHT handed master or a LEFT handed master, and they’ll think it really makes a difference. They’ll even-
        Oh crap! Scratch that whole theory, In fact, just ignore this entire comment. I think I may have made a slight miscalculation in the timeline for all this to happen. Sorry about that. Hope I didn’t panic anybody…


        Everyone needs to just stop and pause for a minute please.

        please, open your eye’s and mind’s!

        All of you whether you choose it or not are pieces to a global game of homicidal eugenics chess! By a group of Bankers who are Sociopath Narcissistic Predators! This is not optional participation , you don’t get to choose whether or not you play or pack up your stuff and kids and move to a better place… cause it is GLOBAL!

        No one country is safe from the Globalists plans of one world domination!

        You are all victims in this… All involuntary Pawns in their Great Global U.N. Eugenics Agenda 21 Game!

        THIS IS ALL INTENTIONAL, PLANNED BY YOUR OWN CORRUPT LEADERS and capt’s of industries , who have sold their souls for a place at the table for the Great Globalist Cannibal Feast upon “We The People” the world over!

        We are now at the “Feeding Frenzy” stage of it!

        Trust Not your Mayors, Sheriff, Senator, Congress Men / Women, Judges, CIA Puppet President in the White House!

        For they are All in the Know! And are all in the Game… trying to get what scraps of meat there is left on your bones… before the Great Global Cannibal Feast is over!

        None of this is by happenstance! This is All Planned Out to the T! It’s Intentional!!!

        A handful of the Globalist Elite in the top tier of Globalist Society (Family Rothschild Carnegie Rockefeller etc etc) are intentionally creating these harsh Social Economic Biological environments … INTENTIONALLY!

        To curb global population growth , curb global economic growth … they are deliberately destroying the biological symbiosis of the natural world around us to ensure YOU and Yours stop procreating! For Complete Control of YOU!

        That is the GLOBALIST END GAME!


        So you cannot organize “As One” and Attack them in a Group!

        Instead of thinking as “WE” and “I” , you should ALL be thinking as “US” , as in GLOBAL HUMANITY! HUMANITY as in HUMANE!

        “WE the PEOPLE!” need to put aside our petty bullshit difference and UNITE , come together as ONE!


        … it is the only way ANY OF US WILL SURVIVE what has already happened , what is now happening and what they plan to ATTACK us ALL NEXT WITH!!!




      38. Nice script. Hollywood might want this

      39. One thing is for certain and no one… yeah, that’s right, even all you preppers, politicians, rulers, kings, homeless, homeys, streetwise, gun owners, vegans, doctors, lawyers… yeah… even the lawyers and politicians that like to argue about everything, cross every T and dot every I…. NONE OF US WILL GET OUT OF HERE ALIVE!!!, and it doesn’t matter how much food, water, ammunition, four wheelers or pretty girl friends you have. We are all destined to be worm shit.

        • Now, tell us how you “really” feel. We get out alive if were still breathing polluted air when Christ returns. Actually, were not getting out of anywhere if that occurs, because He is coming here to set things “right” and we are just changed from these corruptable “flesh” bodies to our permanent “spirit” bodies. Thank God, cause I’ve just about worn this ole muddy overcoat of a flesh body “out”.

      40. An interesting book title I thought worth sharing

        “Plants for a future – edible & useful plants for a healthier world” by Ken Fern.

        Talks about Permaculuture and some wild species that may be worth future cultivation. It’s aimed at Temperate regions like the UK. Well worth a read for anyone in that climate zone interested in “wild foods” to expand their pantry options.

      41. Rubbers have always worked for me!!


        Here’s the 7000 plant database to go with the book. My step-son and son use this database a lot. It’s VERY useful for anyone trying to increase their knowledge of plant lore and a real help in identifying additional edible plant species growing on your door step to supplement your diet and maintain your health.

        I believe that the wider a variety of foods we eat, then the stronger ultimately our own immune systems. Modern agricultural methods have gradually restricted our diets to a narrow selection of foods and our health has suffered in the resulting increase in arthritic and cancerous conditions we have become more prone to.

        After shtf additional sources of nutrients will become even more critical for us preppers.

      43. Don’t worry about China, India ,Africa , Haiti & so on
        One way or other they will continue to export their surplus populations to areas where the local populations are declining (not breeding) like Canada, Europe U.S. etc
        In Canada & most of Europe the governments are enthusiastically encouraging ever greater numbers of these “much needed” immigrant/colonizers.
        Whatever you do please don’t point out that this amounts to slow motion genocide for the whites, and is not really a good idea . This view is not politically correct , and will displease those who have planned for our replacement.

      44. Happy Easter to all of you in the US, CAN, OZ and Britain and especially to Manos in Greece from Norway.

        It has happened before. When the Roman Empire collapsed, there was a huge decline of population. The city of Rome had between 350 000 – 1 million inhabitants. In the sixth century there might have been 30 000 left. Things that were taken for granted like guards, fire brigades, schools, water medical services, roads, postal services, decent housing and industry disappeared or was reduced, as did the knowledge of these things. 150 yeas later in Post Roman Britain people thought the remains of the Romans were the work of giants.

        What had happened? The system became more and more kleptokratic and big government started to serve itself and not the Empire. The army had a life of its own fighting not the barbarians but civil wars. The middle class was wiped out and became serfs (colones) or was ordered to serve the empire by a decree which forbade to choose a profession. At the same time the rich stopped paying taxes and ruled their big estates without the influence from the Emperor. Mass migrations took place and after 250 AD these newcomers could not be integrated into Roman society. They started their own states within the Empire. The economy went down. There was high inflation unchallenged by price edicts (Socialism did not work in Rome either). Over-taxation took place and raw materials, especially iron, got short. Meanwhile the barbarians copied amongst many other things the Roman military system and when they met on the battlefield barbarians became more and more equal. The end came quick. When the administration and monetary system broke down, it was only a matter of time until all of it collapsed. The army disappeared or started on its own. The barbarians conquered many provinces and society broke completely down. 150 years after the fall of Western Rome people whose ancestors would have lived in big houses with water supply, decent clothing and good education would dwell in smoky huts, be all over dirty and their life was about fear and superstitions.

        If you would have asked an wealthy Roman in 360 AD, if he thought, that the world as he knew it could disappear, he would probably said this was an eccentric and very philosophical thought, but the reality was a different one. In 410 when Rome sacked by the Visigoth he would, if he would be still alive, have changed his opinion.

        I don`t think that history repeats itself, but a closer look at this period can help us to see what might happen and how to avoid it or in the preppers case prepare for it.

        • Very good post!

          And, oh yes, history is repetaing it’s self, here in the US. Not only are the (less than) barbarians at the gates, they now run the show…


        The Olduvai Theory: Sliding Towards a Post-Industrial Stone Age, by Dr. R. C. Duncan, July 1996

        For what it’s worth, the above publications came to mind and may add another perspective to the matter under discussion. As the copy/paste links indicate, these are available thanks to the rich in content link site,

        For one thing, Duncan predicted the conclusion of industrial civilization in the year, 2030. Duncan begins his arguments with the well-informed assumption that industrial civilization is a one-time, one hundred year phenomenon. His unit of measure in all things is global energy per capita (e). Based on values of e, he placed the beginning of industrial civilization in 1930. Thus, the one hundred year mark ending industrial civilization is in 2030. Read for yourself. One could argue that this study affirms Duncan. I don’t know all the attributions in the article, but it may have drawn from Duncan.

        Duncan’s factor is of interest because it magnifies the combined effect of diminishing energy and growing population. If the key index of industrial civilization is energy per person, the growing population and shrinking energy lead to a rapidly shrinking core.

      46. Greetings Everyone!
        I just finished this article and everyones comments.
        Viking:I agree with your assessment of Rome and what happened.The same basic thing happened to Athens as well.I have noticed that we humans seem to reach a certain level of “civilization” and then let selfishness,greed and corruption ruin it all.Even the Chinese went thru a similar massive Empire collapse at the same time as the Romans(a slight smile comes to my face on that one).One of the many reason for the communal collapse was the one-way trade between both Empires(it was one of the reasons that caused the debasing of the Roman currency back then!).I expect that at some point that much of the same will occur again,but on a planet wide scale(No-one will be able to avoid it this time).I just hope God steps onto the stage sometime soon.Enough is enough already!Happened in Noah’s time,we’re warned it will happen again,just not a flood this time.The Sheeple will be “buying and selling,marrying and given in marriage when the moment arrives”.Having a strong faith in God will allow you to survive when everything else fails.”Prepping” is a wonderful idea,but Faith along with works will go even farther.Especially if this “Collapse of Empires” stretches out a few decades.Meantime
        TPTB’s(think Bankers,BP and Monsanto to name just a few) will try to ruin/destroy everything and everyone else before they begin to give up their “lifestyle”….
        Just my own thoughts on what seems to be a nice day outside,gotta run!
        Best to All

        • You have a very good point there writing about faith. Prepping and praying make a good team :).

          Thumbs up!!

      47. I read several comments on survival gardening and wanted to add my $.02. My garden consists of a variety of raised beds (20 to be exact) and an open area for things like dwarf fruit trees, fruit bushes, etc. The raised beds allow me to control the soil quality much more while also extending my growing season (soil warms up quicker in the spring). The are also easier to cover if there is a hard frost as well as utilizing the sides to attach plant stakes where necessary. One thing I learned a few years back was the value of adding minerals to your soil. I was a little skeptical at first but did my necessary due diligence and tried them in some test beds to see their impact. Fast forward a few seasons later and they are utilized in all my gardening (including my compost piles) with very impressive results. My beds consistently produce more, the plants are healthier and the food I produce is better for me. Here is a link to an article that explains the value of minerals in soils. ( don’t use any chemicals at all (which is challenging at times) but the benefits don’t outweigh the costs IMO. I really understood nutrients (by creating good compost, etc.) but didn’t understand mineralization. I do now and would highly suggest that any gardener look into it. The biggest challenge I then had was finding a source for minerals. I heard about this company from a commercial landscaper friend of mine that produces the minerals that I use Their website didn’t have much information (apparently they primarily sell to larger commercial customers) but I contacted them directly and they were extremely helpful and took the time to answer all my questions even though I wasn’t a big customer. Some of their mineral blends even have this thing called paramagnetism. I was like “what???” but did my research and it is the real deal. I wanted to pass this along because in a SHTF scenario, growing food will be important but, given the amount of space I have, I will need to max out the nutritional value of what I am growing as well as I will most likely have to ration what I produce. Lastly, make sure not to forget about your seed bank and make sure you purchase the right seeds and enough of them. IMO they will be one of the most valuable items only second to fresh water or the means to purify it.

      48. Just food for thought: There are only a handful of countries in the world with a positive population growth and most of that is due to immigration, not births. That will begin to have a major impact on a reduction of usage of resources. Also, when governments are controlling our seeds and food growth through laws and patents for BigAg, that has much more impact on food supply than population. Another problem is the use of petroleum products in everything….shampoo, cosmetics, cleaning supplies, food, etc. The human body doesn’t need petroleum to survive, just to get from one place to another. Don’t get me wrong, I have no use for windmills except to look pretty and possibly bring water up from the well, but I believe that government control has much more to do with lack of resources than does human consumption.

      49. Color me an optimist. If we stopped wasting a huge amount of our time in effort. We could have a sustainable world WITH 7 Billion. Sadly that is not the case.

        We have possibly a couple Trillion each year spent in the all the militaries of the world. Not that we don’t need them. China and Russia make it necessary to spend the bucks. Way too much spent on athletes, etc.

        If we focuses on creating a steady decent quality of life. It could be a Golden Age.

        Anyway. Prep up like there’s no civilization tomorrow.

      50. Here is a link to a series of articles on the concept of “OVERSHOOT:”

        The worst problem is that civilizations end up being controlled by the people who are the “best” at dishonesty. We have a fundamentally fraudulent financial accounting system, namely a globalized, privatized, fiat money-as-debt system. It is impossible to reconcile that system with the conservation of energy, since there is no conservation of money, but rather, endless, exponentially growing frauds in the form of debts. That is, our “money” gets made out of nothing, and returns to nothing, because THAT IS FRAUD. Political economy is inside human ecology. There is a necessary relationship between the money systems and the murder systems. The debt controls depend on the death controls. The only real solutions must be different death controls, one way or another, BY DEFINITION! The worst problem is that triumph in war was based on the most successful deceptions, but that drove the entire civilization to become too psychotic, since the violence can never make the lies become true. More than anything else, we need better negotiations of the death controls. Since that looks practically impossible, the default is collapse to chaos and genocides. We need a profound scientific intellectual revolution, to think about everything almost totally backwards to the ways we usually do. We need a truth standard in our money systems, but that requires the almost infinite paradox of more honest murder systems.

      51. We need a Resource Based Economy, as per the Venus Project.

        • Good vid. Very forward thinking. I think we are a long way from where they project we could go. People will always want to aquire, and possess things. Otherwise, a very good vission of how the Earth could be.

      52. so to all the ASSHOLES that have been giving me negative ratings on my comments here you have it , i have been saying we have at least 5-8 years before you see any major declines . to all the doomtards who make all these imminent DOOMVIDS i say F_ _ _ – Y _ _ !!!

        • LOL.

      53. Survived the Houston hurricane on my camping skills, no water for 3 days, no electricity for 2 weeks.
        The grocery stores were “looted” 2 days before the hurricane struck.
        Some people in my neighborhood were running around crying where’s the govment the day after the storm.
        Hell of alot of people just aint gonna make it.


      54. Interesting play on the apocalypse thesis which a great many people recognized at the time of the Club of Rome’s Malthusian prognosis was – in fact – wrong. The concept of Peak Oil, for example – completely wrong. The strong suggestion of depleting resources and vanishing food production – wrong! And how about the surprising global demographics? There are almost NO countries n the so-called developed world that are replacing their indigenous populations. The projections at the present rate is for most European countries to drastically decrease their numbers. For Japan to almost disappear in this century. For the Arab nations to drop very sharply to a small fraction of their prior populations.
        The extraordinary efforts of the ‘Elite’ – self-styled as in Hollywood and Media figures – or less visible mega wealthy such as Soros, Turner, Rockefeller, Bushes etc. etc. to jaw-bone AND force failures is quite incredible when observed closely. As duplicitous as the present political climate, and as .grossly dishonest. Get a life people!
        My suggestion, to those who are committed to believing that the world as we know it is on a self-destruct pathway is – to pay attention to the legitimate scientific sources – NOT the sell-outs to the UN and the elite. The internet can supply valid studies and facts – as well as rubbish. Before It’s News and Above Top Secret caters – sometimes to hysteria, and produces it!

      55. bring back the OTTOMAN EMPIRE

      56. Evil, ugly,low iq, non-White useless eaters and useless breeders should have been done away with, long ago. Release the race specific bioweapons then hang the democrats and diversity mongers from meat hooks! It will be glorious!!!!!!!!!!

      57. This argument has been used for the past 40 years for everything from environmental legislation to ideas for mandatory population control. The reality of the situation is that all of these scenarios are predication on the idea of governments maintaining control. The governments of the world can be likened to huge farms. We are the farm animals. Depending on how progressive your state farmer is will depend on how well your treated. Americans and Europeans have been the equivalent to free range slaves. However, the increase in population and the increase in the amount of social/political control that such a large population requires, insures that there will be some kind of collapse. The truth is that governments have never been about serving the needs of the people. Governments have always been about exploiting people so that others can profit. It doesn’t matter what political system you have, its still a case of slaves and masters. If we didn’t have rules and laws, if we didn’t hand over our sovereignty to others, then maybe we could avoid collapse, but I ain’t holding my breath. Hello sheep, welcome to the farm.

      58. Totally agree, just doubt it will take that long, its already happening.

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