At least 26 people have been killed after an armed individual entered a church and opened fire just outside of San Antonio, Texas Sunday morning.
Details are still emerging, but police say the suspect was killed in a shootout following the incident.
According to witnesses, the shooter, who was dressed in full combat gear, stopped shooting only to reload.
The shooting happened at the First Baptist Church of Sutherland Springs, where around 50 people usually attend service, according to local reports.
Wilson County Commissioner Albert Gamez Jr told CNN that at least 27 people have been killed in the shooting, but the death toll is expected to climb.
‘My heart is broken,’ Gamez said. ‘We never think where it can happen, and it does happen. It doesn’t matter where you’re at. In a small community, real quiet and everything, and look at this, what can happen.’
It is unclear who the shooter was, but reports suggest he may be a relative of the First Baptist Church pastor:
The shooter in Texas is a relative of the Pastor Frank Pomeroy. #Texas #SanAntonioshooting #SanAntonio #Trump #MAGA #shooting #Texas #Church pic.twitter.com/dKk77XT2g6
— Country Girl (@GirlDayTrader) November 5, 2017
“Practically Everybody In That Church Was Either Killed Or Wounded”
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This certainly took the attention off of Las Vegas.
There you go. Another “Gun Free Zone” I presume. All churches or groups of people meeting for a common interest should have armed guards posted OUTSIDE a facility to spot an intruder like this. Too bad no off duty officers were on site or in church.
A little foresight could have averted this tragedy. 🙁
Yes, churches in Texas are gun free zones. Along with schools and hospitals.
No, churches in Texas are not gun free zones unless they post 30.06/30.07 compliant signs. I carry in church every time I go because my church doesn’t have the required signage posted. Same with a hospital. They must post the required signage.
Read the penal code.
(a-1) Notwithstanding Subsection (a), a license holder commits an offense if the license holder carries a partially or wholly visible handgun, regardless of whether the handgun is holstered, on or about the license holder’s person under the authority of Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, and intentionally or knowingly displays the handgun in plain view of another person:
on the premises of a church, synagogue, or other established place of religious worship.
http://www.statutes.legis.state.tx.us/Docs/PE/htm/PE.46.htm#46.03
You might want to reference up-to-date statutes.
This section was amended by the 85th Legislature. Pending publication of the current statutes, see H.B. 1935 and S.B. 1488, 85th Legislature, Regular Session, for amendments affecting this section.
Here’s the Story about the Texas Church Shooting Gun Control Advocates Don’t Want You to Hear
ht tp://www.theorganicprepper.ca/much-worse-texas-church-shooting-without-armed-citizen-11062017
Direct link…
http://www.theorganicprepper.ca/much-worse-texas-church-shooting-without-armed-citizen-11062017
Steve Quayle warned all church goers to be prepared for incidents like this quite awhile back. He warned that someone, anyone in church should be armed and vigilante. Because sooner or later these freaks will show up.
History shows that gun or weapons confiscation almost always precedes genocide.
“Those who don’t know history are destined to repeat it.”
– Edmund Burke
“Laws that forbid the carrying of arms…disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes. Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed one.” – Thomas Jefferson
“The best way to take control over a people and control them utterly is to take a little of their freedom at a time, to erode rights by a thousand tiny and almost imperceptible reductions. In this way, the people will not see those rights and freedoms being removed until past the point at which these changes cannot be reversed.” – Adolf Hitler, Mein Kampf
“To conquer a nation, first disarm its citizens.” – Adolf Hitler
“You never let a serious crisis go to waste. And what I mean by that it’s an opportunity to do things you think you could not do before.” – Rahm Emanuel
Those who wish to advance their goal of disarming America are not going to waste the opportunity this crisis presents.
A Little Gun History Lesson
ht tp://rense.com/general81/ligun.htm
Direct link…
A Little Gun History Lesson
http://rense.com/general81/ligun.htm
My life was saved in 1973 by a 32 caliber pistol left behind by my dad. Dad was a security guard and left the 32 behind. I was 11 years old. A man broke in to our home and I was alone. I found and fired that little 5 shot and that monster ran off. It saved my life.
Guns save the lives of 100’s of thousands even millions of lives a year. It far exceeds the amount of innocents taken, and the matter is that the neighbor in this instance saved untold others by wounding and cornering the shooter. Guns save lives. I am alive because of one. No one, and I mean no one was there to save me except a gun, and I used it and survived.
Gun banners are urban supporters of a socialist police state. They are okay with a cop on every corner. That utopia will never happen unless everyone gives up every single freedom, even whether we live or die, handed over to the state. I’ll keep my guns, thank you.
“You never let a serious crime go to waste. And what I mean by that it’s an opportunity to do things you think you could not do before.” – Rom Immanuel
Synagogues in the Chicago-area have armed, private security outside the buildings when services are going on. They take it seriously. Churches need to follow suit.
Sadly, Americans never learn until something happens.
Disturbing trend; assembling in large groups is dangerous.
( Unless you are armed and aware )
Dk,you in Arizona?
“Quemadmoeum gladuis neminem occidit, occidentis telum est.” (A sword is never a killer, it is a tool in the killer’s hands.)
– Lucius Annaeus Seneca, circa 4 BC – 65 AD
“[T]o preserve liberty, it is essential that the whole body of the people always possess arms, and be taught alike, especially when young, how to use them.”
– Federal Farmer (1787)
“During World War II, six million Swiss had guns and six million Jews did not.”
– Author unknown
“…sort of like the people who repeat foolish slogans like “guns kill” – as though guns sprout little feet when no one is looking and run around shooting people all by themselves.”
– Doug Casey, financial columnist
“If you don’t have to give up your car because others drive drunk with theirs, then why do you have to give up your gun because others commit crimes with theirs?”
– Anonymous internet wag
“When a crime is committed, does the gun go to jail?”
– From BrotherJohn.com
“Let’s stop playing games. The problem is people, not guns. Our society suffers from a deficiency of personal responsibility – not from an excess of personal freedom.”
– Star Parker, African American writer and commentator
“The horrifying truth is this: we live now in a culture that not only does not respect life, but discards it like trash — not only at the beginning of life, but also at the end, and every place in between. What has happened to us?”
– Catholic Deacon Greg Kandra
“No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms. The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government”
– Thomas Jefferson, 1 Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334
“The ultimate authority … resides in the people alone. … [T]he advantage of being armed, which the Americans possess over the people of almost every other nation … forms a barrier against the enterprises of ambition, more insurmountable than any…”
– James Madison, 1788
“If, indeed, a firearm were more dangerous to its possessors than to potential aggressors, would it not make sense for the government to arm all criminals, and let them accidentally shoot themselves? Is this absurd? Yes, and yet the government, of course, is arming criminals.”
– David Mamet, Playwright, author, Pulitzer Prize winner and former leftist.
“Blaming Newtown on guns is like blaming Chappaquiddick on the Oldsmobile.”
– Ben Crystal, Personal Liberty News
“An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life.”
– Robert A. Heinlein
“Eliminate guns and they go to bombs, eliminate bombs and they move to poison or something else. Bad people are just bad people.”
– “David,” otherwise anonymous internet poster.
“The trigger is in the head, not the gun.”
– Michael Howell
“Laws that forbid the carrying of arms … disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes.”
—Cesare Beccaria, 1738 – 1794) Italian criminologist, jurist, philosopher, politician, widely considered as the most talented jurist and one of the greatest thinkers of the Age of Enlightenment.
“Just as an experiment, I ordered one of my guns to go out and shoot something. It just laid there and did nothing, regardless of how loudly I yelled at it. I concluded that it was an inanimate object and totally insentient, thus incapable of acting on its own.”
– “Phil Ossifer,” The Daily Sheeple
“Inanimate objects (cars, knives, guns, bombs, etc) are not responsible for any killing done by them, I have a kitchen full of knives and none of them have ever stabbed anyone, my dad’s rifles never shoot anyone. They don’t move unless a human being takes them somewhere.”
– TGamesGuy Kansas
Another mass shooting and a connection with “high doses of psych meds”.
According to articles on Fox News and Zerohedge…
The church shooter “had a history of mental illness and had been on psychiatric meds for a period.”
“High doses of psych meds”
Direct links…
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2017/11/06/texas-church-shooting-who-is-gunman-devin-patrick-kelley.html
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-11-06/heres-what-we-know-about-texas-church-shooter-devin-kelley
At the root of the problem lies big pharma and what their ” medicine” really do to people. Most of the medications do this. They will drive a person that way. And they know it will.
Then they can tell people in the news ( or other people who have no Idea and are clueless about meds ) they were nuts in the head when most times they are not. It’s the meds. Research each med and read the side effects.
Either that or there is something else going on that some people do have a clue about.
It’s time a lot of these meds were taken OFF the market. They are bad.
Bad drugs and big money..they get the job done that they want and get rich at the same time. Hardly anyone is seeing this.
There are other ways to help people.
There’s a radio blackout on Las Vegas, seemingly.
Non-violence is the way forward; however, true, legally defensible self-defense, as defined by Blackstone and incorporated into common law, is not violence. I’m surprised there was no one with concealed carry around.
A good citizen neighbor ran over to the church and shot the bad guy, who dropped the rifle and fled in a car, but bled out as he was driving away.
Follow the money trail, it will probably lead to the Klintonite Foundation, or straight to Soros himself. The storm is getting darker.
You really are delusional. What size tin hat do you wear? Dumbass.
Is that the best “burn” you can come up with?
This individual’s post is an example of why we should have login to post.
come on now…i LIKE it when the trolls out themselves so easily.
You need to be banned from this site. “Delusional?” “Tin Hat?” “Dumbass?” You need to be banned from this site real bad.
Latest info is that a neighbor stopped the slaughter by engaging the suspect with a shotgun. The suspect took off in his car with the neighbor in pursuit. The suspect was found dead in his car. It is unknown if the suspect died from shotgun wounds or killed himself. The cops never had time to engage the suspect.
Authorities are now saying the neighbor shot the suspect with a rifle, the suspect dropped his rifle and ran to his vehicle. The neighbor chased the suspect to the location where he was found dead in his vehicle.
Eyewitness to neighbor shooting the suspect:
https://news.grabien.com/story-man-describes-how-neighbor-stopped-church-shooter-his-rifle
Red Leader,
Absolutely true. It’s come out that the in laws, parents of the woman and child this coward assaulted that got him kicked out of the military went to this church. He obviously went their gunning for them. He shot nearly everyone in the church and was likely on his way to hunt them down. Anyone between him and his intended target was likely also a target.
As bad as this mass murder was, without one brave armed citizen firing one well placed round, the death toll could have been much bigger. This guy was still on the hunt, and actively killing everyone between him and his target.
The killing spree could have continued and been worse.
The antigun group who seek to disarm our country FORGET that it was a good guy (a neighbor) with a gun that stopped a bad guy (criminal) with a gun.
The police didn’t show up until everything was over.
Thats how it usually happens if you notice a lot of these stories.
Speaking of drugs, did you know the gas for the jews came from California? Yep, made in the old u.s.a. And Hitler loved it. He got it from CA. Imagine that.
It was in a Los Angeles newspaper. I read it ( and the date of the newspaper ) and I was shocked. Imagine, the same state that would love to ban guns.
What a evil world this is. Coming up with worse stuff everyday.
Nothingtosay,
I did not realize that gas was made in the U.S. Horrible!
Take care!
This POS is associated with Antifa per early news reports. Also has a dishonorable discharge from the Air Force. What kind of psycho shoots a 2 year old? That ass wipe Soros is behind this, along with the rest of the Antifa crazies. Time to send one of the “Teams” after his sorry ass. $1M per ear should get the job done. These days, I never go “ANYWHERE” without packing my Colt .45. Sign or not. Now I also carry an extra clip. Might starting carrying two or three extras next week. Enough of this BS.
You’d be smarter to carry more then one extra mag. If i were you, I’d carry no less then 2 extra mags, plus a back up pistol, along with 2 extra mags for it too.
Initial reports quashed by the FBI also said the Las Vegas shooter was also an ANTIFA supporter. Deputies said there was ANTIFA and some ISIS lititure in his room.
This reaks of the deep state.
No. The Hollywood sex freaks did. Celebs were lined up around the block to tell a tale just a couple of days after Las Vegas. I commented then on how disrespectful the timing was.
No, the Hollywood sex freaks were the choir boys, not the shooter.
“. . . the Hollywood sex freaks were the choir boys . . . .”
I never in my life thought I would hear how “Hollywood sex freaks were the choir boys,” but there is not much to be argued with in this statement.
Back in the old days, parents warned their kids about Whoreleywood. And other people were warned. They were regarded as bad and like a circus too. Gee I wonder why.
Now these days people love them and want to be like them. Ugh…why?
Money and fame are some of the perks.
And THIS is why everyone should carry a gun, EVERYWHERE.
Yohan: right on, it’s not only Muslims killing en masse, but nut cases or revenge of some sort. No doubt some had concealed carry, but they were ambushed/overcome by an expert shooter, no time to react, came in the front entrance and started shooting.
not only muslims doing the killing,
https://sites.google.com/site/muslimholocaustmuslimgenocide/
http://www.voltairenet.org/article187299.html
https://www.globalresearch.ca/america-created-al-qaeda-and-the-isis-terror-group/5402881
well der…
News is saying that a neighbor across the street walked outside and shot the bad guy as he was exiting the church. That would enplane why the car crashed down the road. Turd probably bled to death inside the car as he was driving.
Duh Mfkr, of course he stopped shooting to reload -so fukn what! What does that supposed to mean??????? These shitbirds that write these articles have no friggen idea how to write an article or news. Everthing else is up in the air and left for the reader to try and comprehend. Years ago this type of reporting wouldn’t be worth spit!!!!! And yes K2 You are correct. Piss poor effort is what we have here.
They are only focusing on the reloading part because this would give the powers that be an opportunity to start making high-capacity magazines illegal. When I used to live in a communist country of New York, they did this in 2012. It was called the safe act.
Anyway, all those families and people are in my prayers, and I do carry a gun in church
That’s why I never go to church.
Guess I’ll go back to regular attendance when I can do CC.
No church, movie, outdoor concert, walking trail, only safe place left is under the bed with the shotgun. I just got another weapon out of the safe and put it in the car, sks and 2 30 round mags.
SPITM,
I’m curious, an SKS has a 10 round internal
non detachable magazine. It is loaded with
stripper clips.
I bought some aftermarket 20 round mags, years ago
but they were EXTREMELY un-reliable, so they just sit there
on a shelf somewhere.
You must have found some that Mags that work.
Where did you find them?
Thanks.
I have an SKS and use 20 & 30 round mags as well as a 75 round drum. I have metal and composite mags in 20 & 30 round configuration. The 30 rounders are so/so. One works, one doesn’t. Haven’t had any problems with the 20 rounders. Had to do a little tweaking on the feed lips of the drum, but no problems with it now. I bought several of my 20 round mags at Academy.
Been so long ago I am not sure, think it was Sovereign Guns in Fuquay Varina, N. C.
I have never had an issue with taco 20 rd mags, and I have put several hundred rounds through them to include hollow points. Your results may vary. I have heard nothing but good things about the archangel 35 rd mags. My buddy likes them because they function like an am mag and they only cost 30 bucks.
Exactly what I keep in my truck along with 200rds incase gotta get home
So, in a church, a holy place, and geezuss didn’t save anyone? I’m shocked. Well, where was geezuss? All church patrons should demand a full refund for the scam they’ve fallen for. But of course they won’t, instead they’ll get on their knees and pray, like that ever does any good. Suckers.
Wow your hatred and sarcasm towards a LIVING savior that died so that you have an opportunity to be saved and not die in your sins….is saddening.
If the shooter had known Jesus, this would not have happened. We are given free will to choose or reject God, and free to make decisions.
I promise you, the decisions will be held accountable on judgement day as will your blasphemy and mockery of “geezuss”
Agreed.
Becareful what you say.
That day is coming soon.
People can laugh and tell jokes, but in the end they will have that day of reckoning.
But that doesn’t matter to people like that.
That ain’t cool at all what you said.
I second your comment!
What a retarded statement, you obviously do not know how God works dummy…good luck in life…moron.
You, are a corrupt human being, corrupt of any form of compassion, decency or sound judgement of any type to make such a comment. Regardless of your belief of a higher authority, God, the fact that you would speak such despicable words after something like this happened, speaks volumes of how much of a waste of energy, oxygen and space that you are taking up on my planet.
I have zero respect for anything like you, your best bet at this point is to pray and hope deep down you realize you’re wrong and that God will truly have mercy on your soul.
Jesus saved over 20 of them. He had other plans for those that moved from physical life into eternal life.
PRICK
Incidentally, BMoe,the refund I personally would like is the one secular humanism has put on the public’s tab. Maybe start with the cost of 50 some million aborted.
But you do, interestingly, make the EXACT same point the Bible makes, Moe. I Corinthians 15:19 says “If only for this life we have hope in Christ, we are of all people most to be pitied.” So, you have exactly paraphrased what the Bible itself says. The problem is if you are wrong – then the equation reverses.
And here’s the thing. It’s not that you are “going” to Hell. Rather, right now, you ARE in Hell. The reason you evoke such sarcasm is that you are angry, afraid, perhaps feel cheated in life. But you are, sadly, letting that prevent you from coming to the only One who can heal that, and make all things new. And that, mon ami, is the tragedy.
poor blackmoe
another lost soul who misunderstands Biblical salvation
BlackMoe,
All those that died for their faith that day were saved. Just as the thief and murderer on the cross next to Jesus Christ was saved that day when he spoke in faith, in support of Jesus who had not sinned.
Beware the trap.
You should go to church more often, you might get to shoot some bad guys.
Ah yes, Aljamo. You remind me of this story, told by Somerset Maugham in 1933.
There was a merchant in Baghdad who sent his servant to market to buy provisions and in a little while the servant came back, white and trembling, and said, Master, just now when I was in the marketplace I was jostled by a woman in the crowd and when I turned I saw it was Death that jostled me. She looked at me and made a threatening gesture. Now, lend me your horse, and I will ride away from this city and avoid my fate. I will go to Samarra and there Death will not find me. The merchant lent him his horse, and the servant mounted it, and dug his spurs in its flanks and as fast as the horse could gallop he went.
Then the merchant went down to the marketplace and he saw me standing in the crowd and he came to me and said, Why did you make a threating gesture to my servant when you saw him this morning?
That was not a threatening gesture, I said, it was only a start of surprise. I was astonished to see him in Bagdad, for I had an appointment with him tonight in Samarra.
“The Appointment in Samarra”
(as retold by W. Somerset Maugham [1933])
Don’t let the be you, Aljamo
These psycho shootings are almost impossible to prevent.
But Govt. & blabbering reporters, psuedo-“experts” etc. will thunder forth with their ages old tired mantra of more & more RESTRICTIONS of the LAW ABIDING, as their “solution” !
At least lessen ( at times prevent ) the carnage by giving responsible citizenry the OPTION everywhere of licensed concealed carry…..& be VERY PUBLIC about proclaimimg it.
It’s pure logic & reason.
W2beer,etc: If our justice system simply executed these killers w/ no legal barriers like appeals on and on, (Muslims and/or dopers like murders in Vegas, Boston, NYC, etc) and keep them in jail for decades w/ plush conditions, so victims families never have closure, then it will continue on. Our judicial system is a joke. Too many liberal lawyers/judges I have zero respect for it.
I’m waiting for them to say bump stock was used. I didn’t make it to church this morn wife wasn’t feeling good. But I go to a little baptist church. We have a man who packs and walks around securing doors. He will see you pull up and go open the door for you if your late. As a Christian I know we are hated and persecuted. Very sad I’m afraid we are gonna see more attacks.
I think that was your best post yet.
Your comment reminds me of the “Bump Truck” that just recently ran over all those bicycle riders. To apply the “logic” of the gun grabbers would be to ban all trucks or cars because they are used to hurt people! Or they would restrict the amount of gasoline permitted in a vehicle so that any bad deed or intention would be limited! ??
Dems are already calling for gun control, scant hours after the act. Yeah, I would give up my means of self defense to have the protection afforded by the police “after the fact???” Requirement now is police must be “chalk line qualified.”
Truth is I no longer trust the elected representative that are in office. That is a sad state of affairs indeed, the only saving grace is out of the millions who took the oath to protect the Constitution from all enemies, right there is 3% we need…
We have “brown shirts” in America today, we have liberturd progressives operating “above the law” and we have a congress that no longer hears the will of the people…
They ever somehow, someway get half the sheeple to turn in their means of defense and outlaw the right to bear arms they will plow over the cities and drone the rural areas…
No one can effectively operate alone and we are in that awful holding pattern, where the ground seems to be crumbling beneath you…
Were headed there
Yep, here we go again. Damned gun just jumped up and started shooting people. Guy who had it was misunderstood, felt triggered or oppressed, all his neighbors thought he did a great BBQ or some such nonsense. When the hell will people read the whole story and see it was NOT the police or military that ended things this time? Just some other citizen who had a gun and used it properly. World would be a better place with more men and women like that one. But ‘no’, we NEED to be protected!!! Thought never occurs to people that they are responsible for things like this by not wearing and carrying a gun for self-defense.
It may seem like its crumbling..but I have a feeling its gonna happen and in a big way. conservatives have been pushed and pushed and pushed and now back to back attacks… the libs/elites are going to get their war. No one can turn the other cheek when being hunted. Eventually you simply fight and the ards will lay where they do. They will come for the guns and then and there you will find those that will infringe on the 2nd and those that will abandon…but there will be those that say f it and would rather go down knowing they tried… many many have nothing much in life and even less knowing they are endangered as is their way of life, thats the straw…
Fantastic post Vet1. I’ve been off the grid for most of the day and just catching up on what happened. Listening to Fox News while reading on the inter-web. A quick search on the web and we find out this guy is an atheist, CNN viewer, dishonorably discharged from Air-force (which makes it illegal for him to have gun). Fox News reports “he’s a white male”… that’s it! and then they have the beachball size nuts to ask when will Congress act to stop the violence. I say fuck Fox News and fuck all the sniveling SJW’s. At some point the 3% will need to make a stand. Thank you in advance to all patriots that defend our Country from foreign and domestic attack.
@Vet1
right on the money.
Here we go again……
The families all know each other…..this thug was
not from their community.
We need to sue every single maker of violent games,
videos, movies, tv shows and every other venue where
violence is “glorified”. Killing is not a game.
There is nothing on television except blood and guts.
Every show is on the darkest side of life.
Try to find a good comedy worth watching…..most are
NOT funny, are full of four letter words, mocking, hating or sarcastic
and always disrespectful. Then throw in LBGT and all the pervs….there
is nothing but garbage.
Is it any wonder children growing up under all this crap have
no respect for life?
When all our “LEADERS” are cheaters, corrupted, thieves, traitors,
liars and disrespectable.
Guns don’t kill but brain damaged, mental
brain washing does. Mooslimes are brainwashed, inbreds who
can’t separate love from hate. They are evil haters.
Live in the SA area and just got back home from Houston, I read this morning about the antifa flop protests then get home and see the “news” of this shooting. I can’t help but think false flag gun grab yet again -_-
I guess Lost Vegas didn’t quite garner the expected effect. Sucks to be the elite.
BAN CHURCHES!!!
seems like another Drill and staged false flag. Does not look like a real emergency situation. No one running frantically and with panic or anything. Just Cops and emergency personal walking around casually. Looks like another Hoax.
Unlike yourself, some people actually have composure, have been trained and be counted on in an emergency.
Carry everywhere ! Just yesterday I was heading in to the woods and was open carrying my buckmark on me ( for copperheads ) but had to stop by the bank and forgot to take it off . Nobody bated a eye in the bank . Now I live in the Missouri Ozark’s and don’t recommend open carrying in a bank but the point is always carry !
My bank in Texas put up a 30.06 and 30.07 sign after open carry was passed. I walked in and closed 7 accounts. That sent the local VP scrambling and asking what I was doing. I said I don’t do business with anyone that strips me of the right to protect myself under the State of Texas law. He got the head cheese on the phone who started telling me that some of his customers might be offended if I opened carried in the bank. I told him to fuck off and do business with them then. Hung up on his ass. End of that story.
I bet they miss all the “insufficient funds” fees they used to collect from you.
Not really. I retired when I was 44 years old with more than 6 digits per account while people like you are trying to figure out how to buy a box of .22 ammo from Walmart with their next pay check.
I still believe that the Constitution, the Bill of Rights, and the Second Amendment is “the law of the land.” We are talking basic human rights. You don’t get to pick and choose.
States have no rights on this, and yet they infringe all the time. Any church, store, or restaurant does business here in the United States has no right to declare themselves a “gun free zone.” “Gun Free Zones” are by definition gun control zones. No one is forcing a gun into their hands. They have no right to take you gun away from you.
I just learned of this tragedy. I do not know what happened but this is why there is a need for security for all churches. That designated security individual can be a church member. Whoever is that designated individual for security they should have a weapon and be concealed carry. No one could then just walk right in and start shooting and kill so many. Also churches of all sizes should have a protocol to follow for all members in the event of an active shooter incident. Whatever the motive of the attacker the congregation would have some measure of defense.
so the shooter was a relative of pastor, retired military and advertised his intent on facebook with no one stopping him, humm it is interesting timing since the Antifa event is still in play.
The only way to stop an evil man with a gun, is a good man with a gun.
There are at least three people in my church including me that carry concealed every Sunday. We will not become victims, I will protect my family and my church family at all cost.
Every church in America needs to have a security team and a security plan.
Muslims have been visiting church’s across America and have been caught drawing maps of the church. Why are they mapping out thousands of church’s ??? I think you know the answer!
the real problems are liberals and your so called leaders
JohnWV: I hope your church is not a 501c3 (gov. controlled PC agenda, etc). Home church or meet in private facility off gov. radar. We have been doing this for over three decades. Pastor has regular job, gets travel expenses for two hr drive to and from his town. No records kept. Org. churches w/ hierarchies, councils are apostate, pushing globalism, gay clergy, etc. refusing to stand up against evil,(social clubs). Smaller conservative churches are holding on to 501 thinking a tax ded. which few can ded. anyway, will go along to get along because of greed.
why, of all places, did no one in Texas return fire ????
Very simple. It was a small rural church. I’ve been in many of them here in Texas, OK and CO. Everyone is facing forward. Probably only 2 doors, one front (single door) and one back (double doors). He came in the back and opened fire. There were less than 50 in attendance. He could have taken most out with the first mag. No way to escape and most people don’t carry at church because church is a haven. I remember the time when a church was respected and no one defiled a church in any way, even if they didn’t believe in God or religion. This was a small town of less than a thousand. Everyone knows everyone. No one thinks this will happen in a small town.
The line has been crossed. The second mass shooting incident with children involved. I will send any psychopathic TRIGGERED freak to hell if they get near my family. And I suggest all other ladies prepare to do the same as these freaks have been given the GO signal.
Murderers should be hanged, cremated & ashes scattered in secret place.
If killers kill themselves, they should still be cremated etc.
These madmen seek publicity with their rampage; Charles Manson is known by more people than Harry Truman. Unfortunately because of modern mass communication and dissemination of information they’re immortalized in infamy.
Prayers to all in that small Texas town.
And for the backwoods nut who wore his open gun into a bank, you obviously just think about yourself. I call it “gun narcissism.” The whole world revolves around what you are doing and your misinterpretation of the second amendment. Try to imagine a mother and her kids watching a yokel strut into a place of business with a gun on his hip. Get your head out of your behind. Not everyone is a big, tough man who likes basting the stuffing out of wild animals. Some of us are considerate citizens, not self-involved weapons fetishists.
Imagine a mother and her kids watching a MAN strut into a place of business with a gun on his hip, thinking, well I cannot carry and shoot a gun, I am glad someone is here that could do something if some crazy person came in here threatening people’s lives.
I IMAGINE the MOM toting a gun on her hip going into the bank, to protect her 3 kids…..I IMAGINE everybody that WANTS to protect themselves walking into the bank with a gun on their hip….an ARMED society, is a POLITE society…..how often do you see a gunfight at a gun show?
BCOD, For years I’ve been saying “an armed society is a polite one,” and from now on I’m going to add your beautiful topper of “how often do you see a gunfight at a gunshow?”
.
Hope you don’t mind 🙂
Old Libertarian
ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZGO PREACH YOUR ANTI GUN BS ON DEMOCRATIC UNDERGROUND OR THE LIKE, BLA BLA BLA
Considerate citizens???
Hope it never shuts down and you have to fend for yourself…
The other “considerate citizens” will eat you alive…
I hope they do have to defend themselves. They will never learn otherwise.
Stormy, you can open carry almost anywhere in the country. It is perfectly legal. Would you have felt better if he had concealed carry so that you don’t have to see that big scary gun on his hip. It is people like two2wisper that just may save your a$$ someday. No one should be afraid of a gun. A gun never has and never will kill anybody. It is always the idiot behind the gun and that is why I carry. Take your liberal philosophy elsewhere.
Prayers, you say? I’m sure those dead and wounded were praying, look how well that worked. Church, worship, prayer, bible, religion, biggest scam in human history.
Incorrect. You say that because of your personal hatred of religion.
Christianity is a relationship with the living Savior. We live in a fallen world that has free will.
IF, the shooter would have followed Jesus, then no one would have gotten hurt.
Well said
Truth is, BMoe, we ALL die. Believing in God is not a magic talisman. Jesus Himself said in this world, you will have trouble. Jesus promised to be with us in suffering, not wrinkle his nose like Elizabeth Montgomery in Bewitched and magically make suffering disappear. In fact, Jesus suffered, in part, to show that He is not a God who doesn’t understand, but entered in to the very world that we are in, that is fallen. Then you use the word scam, as if a scam is wrong. Question for you: There is no God according to you, right? If that is the case, how do you determine if ANYTHING is right or wrong? After all, if there is no God, only evolution, whatever is, is right. You have ZERO reason to claim anything is right or wrong, only mere preference. The truth is, the only reason you have any conception of right or wrong is due to the fact that you retain the fading Cheshire cat grin in Alice on Wonderland of Judeo-Christian ethics. The truth is, as Dostoyevski wrote, “If there is no God… EVERYTHING is permissible.” That includes the rightness and wrongness of scams.
I only wish you would think through your cavil more thoroughly. Think through to the SOURCE of your objections. You comment of “scam” is only partially thought through.
Yes, I believe in free will. And I have the free will to NOT believe the “story” of Jesus, which has been discovered in MANY cultures going back 5000 years (all over the known world at the time). The last one is the only one to to stick and go worldwide.
You sound amazingly like CCS, Zeus, whattathunkit, etc.. You don’t give a damn that these folks are dead and are instead preaching your atheist nonsense. In fact you will be reduced to nothing when you die.
Sometimes the best prayer is: “Lord, please help me shoot straight.”
Your argument lacks substance
But is correct.
According to whom?
Stormy
I seen people in rural Maine walk into a bank with a handgun on their hip and not bat an eye. Why do you assume a woman with kids would be frightened in that environment? Personally I don’t hunt but occasionally carry a handgun with permit. If its concealed or in the open does it really matter? Self defense is a right which is hollow without the means. Florida has issued over 2 million carry permits since 1987 and currently has over a million valid permits issued. The state tracked by law the incidences of criminality with permit holders from 1987 until 2012 when they ceased. Only 168 permits were revoked in the entire time period (1987 -2012) for any crime committed with a firearm post permit issuance.
You have an unfounded phobia.
OH!. Your the kind of dumb ass that likes to wait for the Police to show up only minutes later to write a report about how many holes got shot in your ass. Sounds like your the one that needs to get your head out of your ass and “man up”. You have been “conditioned” by the PTB to think seeing someone wearing a weapon on his / her hip is “BAD!”. Try doing some thinking for yourself.
Re-read his post. He said he forgot to take it off. He also said he didn’t recommend anyone carrying into a bank.
Ummm. My wife and two kids have seen men open carrying here in PA. Somehow they avoided being traumatized by the experience. I didn’t perceive any narcissism from any of those men. I actually talked to them and they didn’t seem stuck on themselves. Spend a day at the range sometime and try talking to people. Take your kids as well. There are good reasons to open carry even though I don’t chose to do so.
Stormy…you are a coward and a dipshit….you are part of the problem….someday soon I’m sure you’ll get a lesson in buttfuckery…for your sake I hope no one you love has to suffer because of your cowardice and gutlessness…
So we don’t know who the shooter shouts after, but within an hour they knew everything about the LV shooter? Fucking horseshit!! Fuck the news, both alternative and mainstream! This used to be a prepping website where info was shared. Now it’s rubbish like msm!
Triggered freaks on the move targeting families and children. That’s some info anybody with a brain needs to know about.
Found this report: Texas Rangers: Armed Citizen ‘Engaged’ Killer, Ending Rampage – ‘A local resident grabbed his rifle and engaged that suspect’
https://news.grabien.com/story-texas-dept-public-safety-armed-citizen-engaged-killer-ending
Antifa member;
http://yournewswire.com/texas-church-shooter-antifa/amp/
The facebook photo shoes an AR-15 that is illegal in Texas. In Texas, you can’t have a rifle that is less than 26 inches overall or have a barrel length less than 18 inches.
The rifle in the photo looks to be an 11 inch barrel. That photo alone would justify an arrest.
16″ barrel is legal here in Texas.
Not sure how you figured all that out from the picture, but it appears to be a perfectly legal AR-15. The legal barrel length is 16″, not 18. The barrel in the picture does not appear to be 11″. You can’t even see the end of the barrel in the picture. You are making assumptions from the position of the front sight. Your assumptions are inaccurate.
Regardless he was dishonorably discharged from the armed forces and hence its equivalent to a felony conviction thus barred from gun possession.
Here we go, theyll be screaming to take our guns away,,,,,
Texas Rangers saying a citizen across the street from the church fired on the shooter and the shooter fled the scene and left his Ruger AR behind.
Later found dead in the vehicle. Not confirmed at this point whether the citizen with the rifle killed him or the coward took his own life…
If only the bad guys have the guns we are truly hurting…
Not a great gun control story since a private citizen stepped in and took care of business!!!
Human nature can be black as pitch. Murder is as old as man is. Cain slew Abel with a rock and began it all.
Guess they should have banned rocks and stones…
???
More reasoning to be tied into Antifa
https://youtu.be/5KPdwG_KNf0
Then there’s this…More Antifa relations
http://yournewswire.com/texas-church-shooter-antifa/amp/
Mac;
Why do my comments keep getting lost?
Are they in moderation?
No, you just suck too much…..
Here we go again……
The families all know each other…..this thug was
not from their community.
We need to sue every single maker of violent games,
videos, movies, tv shows and every other venue where
violence is “glorified”. Killing is not a game.
There is nothing on television except blood and guts.
Every show is on the darkest side of life.
Try to find a good comedy worth watching…..most are
NOT funny, are full of four letter words, mocking, hating or sarcastic
and always disrespectful. Then throw in LBGT and all the pervs….there
is nothing but garbage.
Is it any wonder children growing up under all this crap have
no respect for life?
When all our “LEADERS” are cheaters, corrupted, thieves, traitors,
liars and disrespectable.
Guns don’t kill but brain damaged, mental
brain washing does. Mooslimes are brainwashed, inbreds who
can’t separate love from hate. Some are evil haters.
We definitely are not in Mayberry anymore
@Kay123
Good observant post. Most people don’t see it and are oblivious to the predictive programming and the non stop cultural marxist agenda.
Instead of suing the companies just stop supporting them. The easiest way is to cancel cable and or dish TV. Stop giving those sick people anti American screwballs your money and encourage your family, friends, and neighbors to do the same.
This has Hillary Clinton written all over it. Clinton hates guns, and more than that, hates gun owners. So let’s go in and shoot up Texas.
Second, Texas, being a gun friendly state, was just asking for a George Soros to come in have as many “Church Goers” killed as possible. How’s that strong belief in the Constitution, the Bill of Rights, and the Second Amendment working out for you, Texas?
Notice how all these shootings since Las Vegas break some kind of record. The largest mass shooting in history. The largest mass shooting in State history. The largest mass shooting EVER!
And maybe, just maybe, all these Hillary Clinton scandals breaking all at once — the Russian Dossier; the rigging of Bernie Sanders’ campaign; the rigging of Joe Biden’s run for the presidency and the trashing of that; the Uranium sale to the Russians by Hillary Clinton and that Black Mamba Barack Obama; and Obama bankrupting the Democratic Party with his high living while in office — Hillary Clinton needed yet another distraction. This time it was Texas.
And yes. She is that evil and that big of a b*tch.
Nothing would surprise me anymore? She is one twisted cookie…
I honestly do not think the average person (can’t think out of the box) can conceive of how evil these people really are or what they are capable of. They are hell bent on disarming us one way or another. They cannot take us much farther down the road unless they do. They will kill anyone or anything that gets in their way. Nothing will stop them but a bullet. (Well maybe some rope) They are pure EVIL. These recent acts we are witnessing will become more brazen (if possible) as time wears on. We have a do nothing Congress. On the take FBI. Criminal CIA. Bus loads of slime ball politicians that are above the law. Bought off Judges. Who else did I leave out?
damn well better be carrying with spare mags…
I know I do. A couple of .45 mags in your pockets starting pulling your pants down over your ass. I am off looking for a heavier Galco belt now. Mine seems to stretch out as the days wear on. Time for a new one with mag pouches.
The photo of the shooters gun on Facebook appears to be an 80% lower that he milled out himself, since he reportedly had a dishonorable discharge from the airforce and couldn’t pass a background check. Look for the80% lowers to be made illegal.
Go after the source-Antifa and the demorats…
I don’t see the 80% lower, but there is something funny with the trigger and the mag release button.
Take a close look again of that photo. There is an extra part attached to the mag release and the trigger has something extra attached to is also.
I don’t know what it is.
It’s a drop in trigger. Maybe a CMC. There is nothing attached to the trigger. That is a cutout machined in it. The other part you are seeing is a bolt release extension. Allows the bolt to be released with either hand.
saw a report which said shooter was antifa wanting to start civil unrest.
Kevin2;
I’m not a gun nut, but our country was won in the “wild west”
with guns.
Today too many people condemn raising children in “Sunday School”, where they
learn to “Do unto others”….and “love one another”.
Too many are strung out on drugs….by liberal military design.
Too many are raised on violence in all the entertainment industry 24/7…365 days.
A 16 year old has witnessed hundreds of thousands of Hollyweird sex and
murder scenes in entertainment alone. They become insensitive, hard, disrespectful
of human life,( brainwashed ) and then become violent. They like to imitate their
entertainment Action Heroes.
The liberal gov. forces our soldiers to protect the opium fields in the M E.
That is govments cash cow. They should hang. They are destroying Americas
minds, maybe that is the plan.
Kay123
We can pretty much sum up that “Our Country” really isn’t ours having been bought and paid for a long time ago; its been hijacked. Popular culture isn’t being changed by grassroots its being steered by the very forces that own government. All conveniently hide behind every applicable Amendment and phrase (in or out of context) in the Bill Of Rights and Constitution and attack the same document when it doesn’t serve their agenda. This isn’t coming out of some ex 60s hippy but rather globalist banking/corporate think tanks that need to weaken their opposition.
The Talmud says that everything on Earth belongs to (((them))).
Therefore, they are not stealing our country- they are merely claiming their rightful property.
The chews, that is.
Killing your own citizens to get bills passed is
Punishable by death.
We will not honor anymore laws passed by a congress that is perverted and corrupt!
No more loss of freedoms for fake Orwellian security how’s that working in New York and U.K?
Don’t be fooled it’s all to control you.
… and the shootings you DIDN’T hear about, because they NEVER occurred due to concealed carriers.”
Remember, criminals already don’t care about the law, so “laws against guns” are not going to stop them anyway. Here is a short list of shooting that never occurred FYI. This is from a paper from a few years ago, so I don’t have more recent incidents. MOST of these could have been dozens or scores of dead, EXCEPT for concealed carry folks
– Mayan Palace Theater, San Antonio, Texas, same week as the CT shooting: Jesus Manuel Garcia shoots at a movie theater, a police car and bystanders from the nearby China Garden restaurant; as he enters the movie theater, guns blazing, an armed off-duty cop shoots Garcia four times, stopping the attack. Total dead: Zero. (More details on this theatre-shooting-that-wasn’t because the shooter was stopped by someone with concealed carry is at http://freedomoutpost.com/2012/12/the-theater-shooting-the-main-stream-media-didnt-focus-on-why/ )
– Winnemucca, Nev., 2008: Ernesto Villagomez opens fire in a crowded restaurant; concealed carry permit-holder shoots him dead. Total dead: Two. (I’m excluding the shooters’ deaths in these examples.)
– Appalachian School of Law, 2002: Crazed immigrant shoots the dean and a professor, then begins shooting students; as he goes for more ammunition, two armed students point their guns at him, allowing a third to tackle him. Total dead: Three.
– Santee, Calif., 2001: Student begins shooting his classmates — as well as the “trained campus supervisor”; an off-duty cop who happened to be bringing his daughter to school that day points his gun at the shooter, holding him until more police arrive. Total dead: Two.
– Pearl High School, Mississippi, 1997: After shooting several people at his high school, student heads for the junior high school; assistant principal Joel Myrick retrieves a .45 pistol from his car and points it at the gunman’s head, ending the murder spree. Total dead: Two.
– Edinboro, Pa., 1998: A student shoots up a junior high school dance being held at a restaurant; restaurant owner pulls out his shotgun and stops the gunman. Total dead: One. (Coulter neglected to cite some other cases, such as the high school shooting by Luke Woodham in Pearl, Miss., or the New Life Church shooting in Colorado Springs, CO., where armed volunteers stopped the mayhem immediately.
Not included in Coulter’s article was a shooter who opened fire two weeks after the Sandy Hill massacre. Unfortunately, he did it in a place where people were armed – the Gloucester Township Police HQ – and, while people were wounded, no one was killed except the shooter. http://news.yahoo.com/3-cops-shot-nj-police-station-143541945–abc-news-topstories.html
On Aug. 29, 2010, and armed gunman, Thomas Richard Cowan, entered Sullivan Central High School in Blountville, TN., and pointed his gun at the head of the school principal. This may well have ended up another Sandy Hook event – except for the fact that a Sullivan County Sheriff’s Deputy, Carolyn Gudger, was stationed at the school, and confronted the gunman with her own gun. Cowan retreated from this confrontation, and was later killed when he pointed his weapon at other police who had arrived since the initial confrontation. No Sandy Hook here. That’s because there was armed resistance.
Doug Giles, citing WaPo’s Eugune Volokh, notes some other cases http://townhall.com/columnists/douggiles/2015/10/11/dear-antigun-zombies-yes-dillweeds-civilians-can-stop-potential-massacres-n2064031/page/2 :
1. In Chicago earlier this year, an Uber driver with a concealed-carry permit “shot and wounded a gunman [Everardo Custodio] who opened fire on a crowd of people.”
2. In a Philadelphia barber shop earlier this year, Warren Edwards “opened fire on customers and barbers” after an argument. Another man with a concealed-carry permit then shot the shooter; of course, it’s impossible to tell whether the shooter would have kept killing if he hadn’t been stopped, but a police captain was quoted as saying that, “I guess he [the man who shot the shooter] saved a lot of people in there.”
3. In a hospital near Philadelphia, in 2014, Richard Plotts shot and killed the psychiatric caseworker with whom he was meeting, and shot and wounded his psychiatrist, Lee Silverman. Silverman shot back, and took down Plotts. While again it’s not certain whether Plotts would have killed other people, Delaware County D.A. Jack Whelan stated that, “If the doctor did not have a firearm, (and) the doctor did not utilize the firearm, he’d be dead today, and I believe that other people in that facility would also be dead.”
4. In Plymouth, Pa., in 2012, William Allabaugh killed one man and wounded another following an argument over Allabaugh’s being ejected from a bar. Allabaugh then approached a bar manager and Mark Ktytor and reportedly pointed his gun at them; Ktytor, who had a concealed-carry license, then shot Allabaugh. “The video footage and the evidence reveals that Mr. Allabaugh had turned around and was reapproaching the bar. Mr. [Ktytor] then acted, taking him down. We believe that it could have been much worse that night,” Luzerne County A.D.A. Jarrett Ferentino said.
5. Near Spartanburg, S.C., in 2012, Jesse Gates went to his church armed with a shotgun and kicked in a door. But Aaron Guyton, who had a concealed-carry license, drew his gun and pointed it at Gates, and other parishioners then disarmed Gates. Note that in this instance, unlike the others, it’s possible that the criminal wasn’t planning on killing anyone, but just brought the shotgun to church and kicked in the door to draw attention to himself or vent his frustration.
6. In Atlanta in 2009, Calvin Lavant and Jamal Hill broke into an apartment during a party and forced everyone to the floor. After they gathered various valuables, and separated the men and the women, and Lavant said to Hill, “we are about to have sex with these girls, then we are going to kill them all,” and began “discussing condoms and the number of bullets in their guns.” At that point, Sean Barner, a Marine who was attending Georgia State as part of the Marine Enlisted Commissioning Education Program, managed to get to the book bag he brought to the party; took out his gun; shot and scared away Hill; went into the neighboring room, where Lavant was about to rape one of the women; was shot at by Lavant, and shot back and hit Lavant, who then ran off and later died of his injuries. One of the women was shot and wounded in the shootout, but given the circumstances described in the sources I linked to, it seemed very likely that Lavant and Hill would have killed (as well as raped) some or all of the partygoers had they not been stopped. This incident, of course, involves a member of the military, not a civilian, so some may discount it on those grounds. But Barner was acting as a civilian, and carrying a gun as a civilian (he had a concealed-carry license); indeed, if he had been on a military base, he would generally not have been allowed to carry a gun except when on security duty.
7. In Winnemucca, Nev., in 2008, Ernesto Villagomez killed two people and wounded two others in a bar filled with 300 people. He was then shot and killed by a patron who was carrying a gun (and had a concealed-carry license).
8. In Colorado Springs, Colo., in 2007, Matthew Murray killed four people at a church. He was then shot several times by Jeanne Assam, a church member, volunteer security guard and former police officer (she had been dismissed by a police department ten years before, and to my knowledge hadn’t worked as a police officer since). Murray, knocked down and badly wounded, killed himself; it is again not clear whether he would have killed more people had he not been wounded, but my guess is that he would have since he went to the church with more than 1,000 rounds of ammunition.
9. In Edinboro, Pa., in 1998, 14-year-old Andrew Wurst shot and killed a teacher at a school dance, and shot and injured several other students. He had just left the dance hall, carrying his gun — possibly to attack more people, though the stories that I’ve seen are unclear — when he was confronted by the dance hall owner James Strand, who lived next door and kept a shotgun at home. It’s not clear whether Wurst was planning to kill others, would have gotten into a gun battle with the police, or would have otherwise killed more people had Strand not stopped him.
10. In Pearl, Miss., in 1997, 16-year-old Luke Woodham stabbed and bludgeoned to death his mother at home, then killed two students and injured seven at his high school. As he was leaving the school, he was stopped by Assistant Principal Joel Myrick, who had gone out to get a handgun from his car.
The Marc J. Victor article cited elsewhere in this paper adds several more incidences to the list above, where an armed populace prevented a Sandy Hook massacre. Victor cites a 1997 high school shooting in Pearl, MS., stopped when the vice principal retrieved a handgun from his truck; a 1998 middle school shooting ended when a man living next door heard gunfire and apprehended the shooter with his shotgun; a 2002 terrorist attack at an Israeli school was quickly stopped by an armed teacher and a school guard; a 2002 law school shooting in Grundy, Virginia came to an abrupt conclusion when students carrying firearms confronted the shooter; a 2007 mall shooting in Ogden, Utah ended when an armed off-duty police officer intervened; a 2009 workplace shooting in Houston, Texas was halted by two co-workers who carried concealed handguns. What part of “guns saved lives” don’t leftists get?
Let me answer the question above, if I may. Here’s what leftists don’t get – and which illustrates they really don’t ultimately care as much about each precious life lost at Sandy Hook as they do their precious agenda (and yes… please do use your best Gollum voice from Lord of the Rings when you say the word leftist “precious agenda”; and no, our guns are not precious to most gun owners – rather, our freedom and liberty are precious, and guns are simply a guarantor of that). One story – which represents thousands of other unreported stories every year – with the headline of Woman Hiding with Kids Shoots Home Intruder Multiple Times, illustrates the point very simply: A quick précis of the story will suffice. “A woman hiding in her attic with children shot an intruder multiple times before fleeing to safety Friday… The incident happened at a home on Henderson Ridge Lane in Loganville around 1 p.m. The woman was working in an upstairs office when she spotted a strange man outside a window, according to Walton County Sheriff Joe Chapman. He said she took her 9-year-old twins to a crawlspace before the man broke in using a crowbar. But the man eventually found the family. The perpetrator opens that door. Of course, at that time he’s staring at her, her two children and a .38 revolver,” Chapman told Channel 2’s Kerry Kavanaugh. The woman then shot him five times, but he survived, Chapman said. He said the woman ran out of bullets but threatened to shoot the intruder if he moved…” http://www.wsbtv.com/news/news/local/woman-hiding-kids-shoots-intruder/nTm7s/
John Stiner….you really should check your facts about Texas legal firearms. Barrell length for rifles is 16″ and shotguns is 18″. Anything less is illegal. And AR-15s are legal
As a retired law enforcement officer, I never saw a hammer all by itself, suddenly rise up and strike anybody’s thumb, I’ve never seen a knife leap up out of a knife holder on a counter and stab anyone, or slash them, and I feel never seen nor investigated any shooting where and firearm, “when off by itself”, or loaded itself then committed a murder or other heinous act.
Now, it could be argued that my past professional experience was subjective (it was and still is), and that I have strong opinions of things, (I do), but in my personal history, I have never heard of any inanimate object being responsible for injury or the death of a single person.
Blaming the tool used to commit a heinous act of predation, is like blaming an unopened bottle of hard liquor for evil that some do, sometimes, under the effects of what is IN that unopened bottle.
Sheer stupidity. Flailing to try and comprehend that evil people do exist and choose willingly to do evil acts, is empowering that very evil.
I am grateful, that one person today, stood up to evil in that small Texas town, and kept things from being far worse, As much as I detest the works of George Soros, and find it hard not believe that such a despicable man like Soros is not behind this act, I can believe that the deceased shooter was so inflamed with hatred, that he choose to murder innocents in the name of his own selfish ideology. He’s really no different from the Nazi paid Jewish hunter Soros was during WWII in Hungary, Soros hunted his own Jewish congregants for money. This shooter also hunted people for his own as selfish reasons.
Banning guns is not the answer. Carry concealed, pistol permit, train, get comfortable firing it, and carrying it in your holster. – I have a N.Y. concealed carry pistol permit, just took some classes, and just received my Utah, and Arizona concealed carry pistol permits. My next step is to get a Florida pistol permit concealed carry, then I will be able to carry in 35 states. N.Y. politics are terrible, no electric chair/ death penalty, knee jerk reactions to guns, no wonder 1/2 of N.Y.State is leaving for other states. – Today hit me hard. Those poor people went to church to pray, sing hymns, listen to the preacher, meet as a congregation. Instead they got slaughtered by some horrific nut job. I pray for all of them, and thank god someone got his gun and put an end to it.
The other thing about New York State is that the capitol might as well be in New York City. Without Upstate to bleed white, New York City would starve, go bankrupt, and drop dead.
These mega cities produce nothing; they have to bring in everything just to survive.
The state’s citizens have been pointing this out for decades, only to keep hearing the same thing: “conspiracy theory,” “Anti-Semite,” “Bigot,” etc.
Meanwhile, Upstate New York is dying. Buffalo. Rochester. Syracuse. Utica (the city capitalism forgot), Binghamton. Some of the smaller towns have dis-incorporated. Seneca Falls.
The problem is the same everywhere — professional politicians, like Chuck Schumer, have come in and taken over. Family dynasties like Cuomo engage in political nepotism. This royalty in a republic must be stopped.
Term limits. Mandatory term limits.
Similar attacks that NEVER happened:
… because of concealed carry. Remember, criminals already don’t care about the law, so “laws against guns” are not going to stop them anyway. Here is a short list of shooting that never occurred FYI. This is from a paper from a few years ago, so I don’t have more recent incidents. MOST of these could have been dozens or scores of dead, EXCEPT for concealed carry folks
– Mayan Palace Theater, San Antonio, Texas, same week as the CT shooting: Jesus Manuel Garcia shoots at a movie theater, a police car and bystanders from the nearby China Garden restaurant; as he enters the movie theater, guns blazing, an armed off-duty cop shoots Garcia four times, stopping the attack. Total dead: Zero. (More details on this theatre-shooting-that-wasn’t because the shooter was stopped by someone with concealed carry is at http://freedomoutpost.com/2012/12/the-theater-shooting-the-main-stream-media-didnt-focus-on-why/ )
– Winnemucca, Nev., 2008: Ernesto Villagomez opens fire in a crowded restaurant; concealed carry permit-holder shoots him dead. Total dead: Two. (I’m excluding the shooters’ deaths in these examples.)
– Appalachian School of Law, 2002: Crazed immigrant shoots the dean and a professor, then begins shooting students; as he goes for more ammunition, two armed students point their guns at him, allowing a third to tackle him. Total dead: Three.
– Santee, Calif., 2001: Student begins shooting his classmates — as well as the “trained campus supervisor”; an off-duty cop who happened to be bringing his daughter to school that day points his gun at the shooter, holding him until more police arrive. Total dead: Two.
– Pearl High School, Mississippi, 1997: After shooting several people at his high school, student heads for the junior high school; assistant principal Joel Myrick retrieves a .45 pistol from his car and points it at the gunman’s head, ending the murder spree. Total dead: Two.
– Edinboro, Pa., 1998: A student shoots up a junior high school dance being held at a restaurant; restaurant owner pulls out his shotgun and stops the gunman. Total dead: One. (Coulter neglected to cite some other cases, such as the high school shooting by Luke Woodham in Pearl, Miss., or the New Life Church shooting in Colorado Springs, CO., where armed volunteers stopped the mayhem immediately.
Not included in Coulter’s article was a shooter who opened fire two weeks after the Sandy Hill massacre. Unfortunately, he did it in a place where people were armed – the Gloucester Township Police HQ – and, while people were wounded, no one was killed except the shooter. http://news.yahoo.com/3-cops-shot-nj-police-station-143541945–abc-news-topstories.html
There’s one more gunman incident Coulter also missed: On Aug. 29, 2010, and armed gunman, Thomas Richard Cowan, entered Sullivan Central High School in Blountville, TN., and pointed his gun at the head of the school principal. This may well have ended up another Sandy Hook event – except for the fact that a Sullivan County Sheriff’s Deputy, Carolyn Gudger, was stationed at the school, and confronted the gunman with her own gun. Cowan retreated from this confrontation, and was later killed when he pointed his weapon at other police who had arrived since the initial confrontation. No Sandy Hook here. That’s because there was armed resistance.
Doug Giles, citing WaPo’s Eugune Volokh, notes some other cases http://townhall.com/columnists/douggiles/2015/10/11/dear-antigun-zombies-yes-dillweeds-civilians-can-stop-potential-massacres-n2064031/page/2 :
1. In Chicago earlier this year, an Uber driver with a concealed-carry permit “shot and wounded a gunman [Everardo Custodio] who opened fire on a crowd of people.”
2. In a Philadelphia barber shop earlier this year, Warren Edwards “opened fire on customers and barbers” after an argument. Another man with a concealed-carry permit then shot the shooter; of course, it’s impossible to tell whether the shooter would have kept killing if he hadn’t been stopped, but a police captain was quoted as saying that, “I guess he [the man who shot the shooter] saved a lot of people in there.”
3. In a hospital near Philadelphia, in 2014, Richard Plotts shot and killed the psychiatric caseworker with whom he was meeting, and shot and wounded his psychiatrist, Lee Silverman. Silverman shot back, and took down Plotts. While again it’s not certain whether Plotts would have killed other people, Delaware County D.A. Jack Whelan stated that, “If the doctor did not have a firearm, (and) the doctor did not utilize the firearm, he’d be dead today, and I believe that other people in that facility would also be dead.”
4. In Plymouth, Pa., in 2012, William Allabaugh killed one man and wounded another following an argument over Allabaugh’s being ejected from a bar. Allabaugh then approached a bar manager and Mark Ktytor and reportedly pointed his gun at them; Ktytor, who had a concealed-carry license, then shot Allabaugh. “The video footage and the evidence reveals that Mr. Allabaugh had turned around and was reapproaching the bar. Mr. [Ktytor] then acted, taking him down. We believe that it could have been much worse that night,” Luzerne County A.D.A. Jarrett Ferentino said.
5. Near Spartanburg, S.C., in 2012, Jesse Gates went to his church armed with a shotgun and kicked in a door. But Aaron Guyton, who had a concealed-carry license, drew his gun and pointed it at Gates, and other parishioners then disarmed Gates. Note that in this instance, unlike the others, it’s possible that the criminal wasn’t planning on killing anyone, but just brought the shotgun to church and kicked in the door to draw attention to himself or vent his frustration.
6. In Atlanta in 2009, Calvin Lavant and Jamal Hill broke into an apartment during a party and forced everyone to the floor. After they gathered various valuables, and separated the men and the women, and Lavant said to Hill, “we are about to have sex with these girls, then we are going to kill them all,” and began “discussing condoms and the number of bullets in their guns.” At that point, Sean Barner, a Marine who was attending Georgia State as part of the Marine Enlisted Commissioning Education Program, managed to get to the book bag he brought to the party; took out his gun; shot and scared away Hill; went into the neighboring room, where Lavant was about to rape one of the women; was shot at by Lavant, and shot back and hit Lavant, who then ran off and later died of his injuries. One of the women was shot and wounded in the shootout, but given the circumstances described in the sources I linked to, it seemed very likely that Lavant and Hill would have killed (as well as raped) some or all of the partygoers had they not been stopped. This incident, of course, involves a member of the military, not a civilian, so some may discount it on those grounds. But Barner was acting as a civilian, and carrying a gun as a civilian (he had a concealed-carry license); indeed, if he had been on a military base, he would generally not have been allowed to carry a gun except when on security duty.
7. In Winnemucca, Nev., in 2008, Ernesto Villagomez killed two people and wounded two others in a bar filled with 300 people. He was then shot and killed by a patron who was carrying a gun (and had a concealed-carry license).
8. In Colorado Springs, Colo., in 2007, Matthew Murray killed four people at a church. He was then shot several times by Jeanne Assam, a church member, volunteer security guard and former police officer (she had been dismissed by a police department ten years before, and to my knowledge hadn’t worked as a police officer since). Murray, knocked down and badly wounded, killed himself; it is again not clear whether he would have killed more people had he not been wounded, but my guess is that he would have since he went to the church with more than 1,000 rounds of ammunition.
9. In Edinboro, Pa., in 1998, 14-year-old Andrew Wurst shot and killed a teacher at a school dance, and shot and injured several other students. He had just left the dance hall, carrying his gun — possibly to attack more people, though the stories that I’ve seen are unclear — when he was confronted by the dance hall owner James Strand, who lived next door and kept a shotgun at home. It’s not clear whether Wurst was planning to kill others, would have gotten into a gun battle with the police, or would have otherwise killed more people had Strand not stopped him.
10. In Pearl, Miss., in 1997, 16-year-old Luke Woodham stabbed and bludgeoned to death his mother at home, then killed two students and injured seven at his high school. As he was leaving the school, he was stopped by Assistant Principal Joel Myrick, who had gone out to get a handgun from his car.
Don’t let this incident take the spotlight off the klinton crime family and the commuist media agenda.
I do not believe that he acted along. Not to say someone aided him in the actual crime, but that beforehand he was associated with a group or organization. I do not believe there is any such thing as a lone wolf killer.
When an animal is dead it often thrashes around in its death throes. That is what we are seeing now, America is toast as a functional society. We became to “civilized “too confront evil and now it flourishes to the point that we can’t even go to church without fear of violence. NOBODY has a viable solution to the problem. Why ,because the very people leading our society were instrumental in destroying it. People like George Soros propagate evil with their billions and NOBODY does anything about it. We very neatly elected the most evil sociopath to ever run for President as our leader, and significant portions of our society are working day and night to destroy the results of the last free election I fear we will ever have as a nation. This all seems like the old movie A Night To Remember, everyone scurrying around desperately in their last moments while the Titanic sinks below them. Hang on tight folks we are on a rollercoaster to hell.
Blessed are the meek. My ass. If you’re going to be in a large group you better be armed. If you’re going to be White and in a Christian church, you better be armed.
Nope. I’m 53 years old and saved by the grace of God. I’m not about to be scared to go to church nor do I fear taking my family. And I’m not taking a weapon in to the place I worship and praise God. I don’t know why God allowed this but I know His plan is perfect and I’m not in a position to question Him. I can tell you that the folks who died are in a much better place now (assuming they were saved) so the pain of this tradgedy is our side, not theirs. This country is figuratively burning now. The leftists that have made the things of this world their God don’t know right from wrong anymore. Its going to slowly get worse, much worse. We are descending in to a pit of hatred and we can’t even conceive of what’s in store for us. But us Christians will have to keep our focus on Christ and not get sucked in to the storm.