“Inevitable Taxpayer-Funded Bailout” As Angry Teamsters Watch Their Pensions Go Bankrupt

by | May 13, 2016 | Conspiracy Fact and Theory, Emergency Preparedness, Headline News | 155 comments

Do you LOVE America?



    This article was written by Tyler Durden and originally published at Zero Hedge.

    Editor’s Comment: As baby boomers retire, large union groups are watching as their pensions go unstable, and they beg the government for help. Only, there isn’t and never will be enough to go around. Though the pension was mismanaged, even theft was from the public purse won’t be enough to stop the pain that will come when millions realize that their retirement money isn’t there, and other other benefits may be just as uncertain.

    As Teamster truckers demand financial assistance, another huge question looms, unaddressed: What happens when driverless trucking kills the industry altogether, and millions of drivers are out of work with nothing better in sight? What jobs shall come, as technology displaces entire industries overnight, and people become more desperate than anytime that any of us have been alive?

    Here Come A Lot Of Angry Teamsters: One Of America’s Largest Pension Funds Demands A Taxpayer Bailout

    by Tyler Durden

    Over the past few months, we have covered the unfolding saga (here and here) of the Central States Pension Fund, which handles retirement benefits for current and former Teamster union truck drivers across various states including Texas, Michigan, Wisconsin, Missouri, New York, and Minnesota, and is one of the largest pension funds in the nation, all the way through Kenneth Feinberg’s rejection of the proposal to cut benefits on behalf of the Treasury.

    When the proposal was rejected, we said that the final resolution will be in the form of an inevitable taxpayer-funded bailout

    If the Treasury won’t allow any pension cuts, and the government created safety net won’t be there to keep the benefits flowing, how will the cash continue to flow to members? With the precedent now set by the Treasury that no cuts will be allowed, the answer will likely come in the form of a massive bailout.

    As it turns out, that is precisely what fund director Thomas Nyhan believes as well. Nyhan said the rejection means the CSPF likely won’t be able to offer another proposed fix without getting funding from Congress, either directly or through the Pension Benefit Guaranty Corp.

    However with the PBGC also on its way to insolvency, and unable to shoulder the additional burden in world of zero and negative rates, that leaves us with… drum roll please… the US taxpayers, aka Congress, footing the bill.

     “There are only two solutions. Either the plan receives more money or has to have fewer benefits. I’m hopeful that come probably 2017, we can actually all get to work on something that can provide a solution. If there is no legislation at any time, we’re going to end up going to insolvency.” Nyhan said. 

    The full-court press is now on, as now everyone involved is calling on congress to step in. Visitors to CSPF’s website this morning were greeed with a banner directing to a rescue plan website.

    Before you could enter the rescue site a pop-up message is shown, simply saying that since congress effectively shut down the proposal, they can now stand up and pass legislation to bail the fund out.

    Central States strongly urges these members to act now to pass legislation that protects the pension benefits of the over 400,000 participants of Central States Pension Fund”

    With the Treasury denying the possibility of pension cuts, the ball is now in Congress’ court to initiate a bailout.

    When it does, because it will, the flood gates will be open for the rest of the insolvent funds to come knocking with their hands out, and we can formally welcome the arrival of helicopter money – whether Yellen wants it or not – in the United States.

    What follows is Tom Nyhan testifying before congress back in 2013, laying it out in very plain terms that without funding, or significant benefit cuts, the game is over.

    “Unless the fund substantially reduces its liabilities, or receives a large influx of assets, it’s projected become insolvent within ten or fifteen years, and at this point our options are very limited.”

    Nobody listened, and now – in this bold new age of pension fund crushing zero and negative interest rates – it is game over.

    This article was written by Tyler Durden and originally published at Zero Hedge.


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      1. gee, is this to coerce the teamsters to BEG to be “saved” by o’bama (and give up the Bill of Rights and accept the UN as the new One-World-Government) AFTER o’bama has the CIA create False Flag “riots” that enable him to declare Martial Law?

        • Years ago when I started with the electric company, I asked our shop steward about part of our union dues going to fund the democratic party. The response I got was that none of the IBEW’s funds went to political candidates. Doing research I found that the funds went to the AFL-CIO union which then used the funds in politics. I also asked about the political mailers that would come to us. They would tell us which way they expected us to vote. We also received phone calls asking for support.

          So I would vote republican and part of my money goes to the Democrats. I almost left the union at that point. Virginia is a right to work state.

          Then I got a supervisors job. You realize that piles of money are donated by the company to both sides of the isle. They do this to secure political votes. A wonderful world we live in.

          So which is worse. I see no difference. Both sides are crooks. They are in it for the money. I know business has to make money to be in business. I know in the beginning unions were good. They greatly increased safety at work sites and helped the common man.

          Now when you examine what is taking place they are all full of pure greed. The people at the top of both unions and business could care less about the guys working at the bottom. We are just numbers. Free capitalism no longer exist. The system is rigged. The union’s have tied themselves to the democrat party using union dues. This is to ensure that they remain in power. The democrats comply because it involves so many votes.

          Hard times have now come to the government because of there spending spree. Let’s see how much the union bosses care about people. Do they take others tax money to fix the pension funds. I am promised a pension currently. I think the last figure I saw was that only 9 percent of Americans currently have pensions. New hires in the salaried side no longer get a pension. Just a 401k. The current contract negotiations at my company are not going well. It is because the company is trying to cut everyone’s health care and pension benefits. I have been a supervisor for six years and the company has taken and taken from first and second line supervisors. Now they are trying the same with the union.

          In the end all will realize. Broke is broke. The money is gone. Health care is ruined by government greed. The companies have spent the pension money.

          Quote ” The problem with socialism is sooner or later you run out of other peoples money ” Margaret Thatcher.

          • Mike in Va…..I was brow beaten into my union in Va and threatened if I didn’t join. 30 years in that union and a lot of the dues went to the Dems. Now the Union pension fund is in “critical condition” with benefits being cut and few new members added. Part time employees receive no benefits and there is massive turnover because of a lack of benefits and full time(full time only get benefits) I hear where you’re coming from!

            • But rest assured that the union bosses’ pensions are OVERfunded. Unions really look out for the ‘workers’.

              • The union bosses pensions are just fine. There salaries are high enough that no pension is required.

                The companies executives are just fine too. Amazingly. There salaries are wonderful as well. Then you also have the millions in stock they receive.

                There bonuses are never cut.

                I could care less to be honest how much each makes. If they make a trillion dollars then fine if that is what they were told they would make. Just don’t mess with what I was told I would make when I excepted the job.

            • Jim

              You are right. That is also happening in the private sector. Not the government unions. The company does away with jobs. During outages they use contractors.

              Is it right or wrong? That is debatable. From a business stand point does it mean the union employee’s are getting to much. Maybe if doing it this way is cheaper.

              It is a delicate balance. During normal operations we are doing the same with half the people. Sooner or later there is going to be an accident because of this. I am sure it is going on in most all industry.

              It really is greed pure greed. From both sides.

              The union will never take a pay cut to save jobs. No members would ever vote to reduce there pay. So jobs are cut. Maybe because of greed from the company. In cases like the auto industry because they had too. The company had agreed to way to much to the union.

              Not one union boss or company executive is ever hurt in all of this. After all the company preaches ethics and what they stand for. The union boss says he is all about the men and women of the union.

              It really is ironic in a way.

              • Pensions go bankrupt, but Montana law gives unemployment benefits to illegals and state workers are NOT to report the status to immigration officials.

                Montana Court strikes down law denying unemployment benefits to illegals…

                HELENA, Mont. (AP) — “The Montana Supreme Court has barred state officials from reporting the immigration status of people seeking state services, striking down the last piece of a voter-approved law meant to deter people who are in the U.S. illegally from living and working in Montana.

                The court’s unanimous decision on Tuesday upholds a Helena judge’s 2014 ruling in a lawsuit that the law denying unemployment benefits, university enrollment and other services to people who arrived in the country illegally was unconstitutional.”

                “The justices went further, rejecting the one remaining provision that required state workers to report to federal immigration officials the names of applicants who are not in the U.S. legally.”

                Herald Courier

          • Mmmmm, remember when the Real Estate tycoons were writing books on how to make it rich by using OPM (Other People’s Money)?

            20yrs later those that did so are taking it right up their kahoodas!

            • Equorial

              I understand what you are saying but that is a little different. If I see a housing complex that I consider to be a good investment and get others to go in with me on it. Then it goes belly up. That is my and others bad decisions.
              It is called being an investor.

              No one was forced to give up there money to do it.

              What I was talking about was the money that is stolen from my paycheck, personal property taxes, state inspections, gas tax, building permits, sales tax, capital gains tax, real estate tax, and all the other ingenious ways the government swindles money out of you.

              Liquor tax
              Tobacco Tax
              Obama care
              tax on cable bill
              tax on phone bill
              tax on electric bill
              road tolls
              tax on gambling winnings
              tax on tips
              having a property perk fee
              state tax
              hunting license
              emt license
              boating license
              Tickets and fines

              Everyone is forced to do that.

              Those are just some of the taxes that come to mind that we are forced to pay. Does not matter what they call it be it a fee, license, permit ect. It is still a tax.

              This is mind boggling as well when you examine it. I wonder how much each person actually does pay in a year. It would take some figuring but way more than we think.

              This is why the system will crash. When????

              I would pay all those taxes to know the answer to that

              Really we have already crashed and the pain has not hit hard yet. You realize the crash happened long ago and the system has just not toppled over yet. I just would love to know when it is going to fall.

          • Mike, ah yes, the unions supporting the Democrat party. In the 90’s i was a member of the UAW, and i remember the union telling all rank and file members to vote for this new gay named Bill Clinton. I said wait a minute, who is this guy, and what does he stand for, the union said never mind that, “he’s a big time union supporter” so we need YOU to vote for him.

            I said well I’m not voting for anyone until i first check them out. I checked him out and told the union this guy is BAD NEWS and we should not vote for him. They told me i was wrong, and they wanted as many members as possible to vote for him. I told the union to count me out, needless to say i didn’t win any friends with the union. Since i was in a right to work state i dropped out of the union, and just stood back and watched what the unions support for Clinton would buy them.

            Then in a few years time the NAFTA trade pack with Mexico came up for a vote, and Clinton was all for it. The union was running all around wanting all their rank and file members to call congress and tell them to vote against NAFTA.

            Well NAFTA passed, and as time would show it was really bad news for unions jobs here in the US. I told the union, see this is what you get when you don’t vet people like Clinton before you tell your membership to support them with their money and votes!!!

            • news from the socialist paradise of Venezuela…

              Scenes From The Venezuela Apocalypse: “Countless Wounded” After 5,000 Loot Supermarket Looking For Food

              Countless wounded.

              Zerohedge dot com

            • Colt

              That is such an excellent point. I cannot tell you how many times I have been told that the democrats are for unions. We went on strike back in 2002. Something I hope I am never part of again. The democrat governor here in VA did nothing at all about the strike.

              The company is no better. I wish I knew the amount of money they send to both democrats and republican campaigns. All while they are telling everyone below vice president that they can only afford to give 20 percent of our allowable bonus. Then cutting medical insurance, jobs, retirement benefits, and requiring those left to work way more for the same salary.

              If contract negotiations don’t improve then it could be strike time again. This time since I am salaried I will be told to work every day for 12 hours or more until the strike is over.

              At least right now I am vacationing. My beautiful wife is turning 60. I told her it was time to trade her in for newer models. Possibly 2 30 year olds lol.

              Damn the couch does not sleep well.

            • Bill Clinton said, “No NAFTA” at the top of his lungs at a UAW rally while running. He signed it, China Free Trade and abandoning Glass-Steagall. Democrats, the core of the ignorant, delusion-ally idealistic, or self serving, just love the man. I know many traditional Democrats that do know who did what and when; they are voting for Trump.

              “You can fool all of the people some of the time, and some of the people all of the time, but you can’t fool all of the people all of the time”.
              President Abraham Lincoln

          • Had you left the union, you would have quickly been fired. A reason would have been found.

            • Gib

              Not true here in VA

              It is a right to work state. Even if you are not in the union the union is required to still represent you.
              Management only fires those that are really screwing up.
              From what I have seen it takes an act of congress to fire someone in this environment. I have seen two people get there jobs back. One after 2 years. He had come close to being fired from 3 different plants. Got fired at one I am at and still got his job back. Rumor is that it was due to some documentation not being correct.

              I have decided that I am just part of the circus in this country. At least I am not one of the sheep in it. Maybe I am a clown lol.

          • Unfortunately all of these pension funds were set up in the model of social security. Social security is a Ponzi scheme that works great when you have more funds coming in than going out and a place to grow those funds with better than .25% interest rates. Current situation will bring about many retirement funds going broke and company people with individual retirement accounts having to save so much more income because there is no safe place to invest and make money. Union or not the problem is the economy is crumbling and slowing down. I hate to see people bash unions for pension issues that are clearly part of a faltering economy due to a banking system that has basically bankrupted the country.

          • Many union pensions are about to fail and become insolvent, nothing new. But there will be no taxpayer bailout this time around for these fiascos. The unions are dead and many will be shocked when their pensions vaporize! I have zero pity, because I have long despised unions and the people that go along with all the garbage they create. It is little more than another criminal enterprise here in USSA today. Most who think they are looking at a good pension will be out of luck and completely blind sided !

        • http://www.everestgear.com/om1298.html


          Everestgear.com is having a half price sale on Himalayan suits as well as mucho other gear. You should go take a look.

          Most of you probably don’t need the thermal suit; I wanted to mention it in case you are concerned about volcanic supereruptions (in which case the ambient temperature would decrease by 25 degrees C.

          So then, for example if winter in your area was -5 C at worst, if Yellowstone erupted it would be -30 C, in which case the thermal suit would do you well.

        • Better get your fucking money out of the bank while you can before you get Cyprused.

          I only leave enough in there to pay the bills.

          Have you heard about the new book by Congressman X?

          “We spend money we don’t have and blithely mortgage the future with a wink and a nod. Screw the next generation. It’s about getting credit now, lookin’ good for the upcoming election.”

          • right on Acid!

        • There is a missing element in everyone’s posts regarding this subject, and it is alarming (at the very least).

          Consider that the feds truly are weeding out the workers in America, namely middle-class to the point of being virtually non-existent in the foreseeable future! Since we pay the absolute majority of taxes (as the elite and the poor do not pay any), it makes absolutely NO SENSE to dispense with their ONLY SOURCE OF INCOME …as it stands, so that means THEY have already established ANOTHER source of income and (obviously) aren’t worried if we pay any taxes or not. You can’t ask for taxes when the man was prevent from getting ANY form of employment right?

          You can’t support a country when there are no funds coming into “the kitty”. Period!

          THEY are the public servants, not us. THEY DO AS WE DIRECT THEM TO – AS A STATE, and from ‘state-to-state’ (in a simplistic-nutshell).

          Who says we have to go along with high-tech when it stiffs someone out of a job? Blow hell out of what they are building or tie it up in a court forever – – these things are done all the time “BY THEM” so why not bat the guano right back into THEIR laps?

          WalMart stopped selling guns/ammo and ourselfs and MANY people we know ceased using WalMart and SamsClub forever …even if they change their minds down the road, fuck’em.

          Since Obama is now seeking to cause “a great divide” of some sort between schools and the feds (since when were the feds in charge of who shits and pisses in what hole and in what room)? Talk about federal over-reach, Christ! Would they like to hold it too while I pee so that I don’t try to spank the monkey or another “crime” (as everything we must do MUST be a crime …in their books). I can easily envision this bathroom shit turning into a Revolution, and this may be exactly what is desired by The Feds …in order to do “something” that would piss us off that much more.
          Now, what DID I do with that damned crystal ball?

          As for allowing men in Women’s bathrooms, at the time of this writing there have already been over 133 “bathroom altercations” of male SICKOS hanging out in the stalls waiting to “be alone” with a victim (knock them out and drag them into a stall is #1 on the list, or so they were saying …earlier today on Fox (or CNN). Castrate the sobs…with a .45 THEN the standard Head, Heart and Lung LEO-style slaying. heheh…

          • What I meant to state was “How the hell do they expect to run a nation if there are no frigging workers paying taxes because all of the damned jobs are gone?


            • California has had lost 250,000 people. And along with that flight they also lost about $1 billion in tax revenue.

              Look at communist countries. You have the wealthy at the top and the workers at the bottom and nothing in the middle.

            • Equrial

              Make us all slaves.

          • Equorial,

            You make some good points. I believe “the plan” is to destroy the middle class by collapsing the economy.

            “The way to crush the bourgeoisie (middle class) is to grind them between the millstones of taxation and inflation.” – Vladimir Lenin

            Obama’s War on the Middle Class
            “…One of the hallmarks of all socialist countries is the is the absence of an independent middle class.

            From the Bolshevik experiment in Russia to socialist Venezuela today, it is necessary for communist leaders to eliminate that class of citizens who are not dependent on government for their welfare.

            Political theorists from Aristotle to Locke understood that a truly INDEPENDENT AND PROSPEROUS MIDDLE CLASS WAS ESSENTIAL TO THE COLLECTIVE WELL-BEING OF ANY SOCIETY.

            The middle class has always, in every society, been characterized by qualities of social restraint and economic realism — a shrewd and skeptical conservatism that serves to restrain the grandiose plans of utopian revolutionaries and embittered reactionaries alike.”

            “It is an ominous sign that the political left, with the loyal support of more than a third of our population, is intent on its destruction.”

            American Thinker

        • Dr. Martin Luther King, a known conservative republican voter, was way ahead of his time when he advocated the minimum income for all citizens.

      2. As I have been saying .. what really surprises me is the fact that they didnt see this coming

        now the cops and city workers are next ..

        and I’ve been saying that too

        skilled trades have been getting the shaft for way before this

        why do you think the unions attached themselves to the municipalities.. its because they cant move out of the country like the manufacturing companies can

        • EOTS, we’ve lost 500 cops and firefighters in Memphis just in the past 2 years because of pay and benefit cuts. It’s only going to get worse.

          • Braveheat1776

            Lower the hiring standards and you will have more than enough cops and firefighters to fill the vacancies.

            • Anon, I’ve heard about other areas of the country doing just that and that only increases problems between the people and LE. I expect my area will do the same eventually.

            • I think their “standards” are low enough..as been shown by some of the complete assholes we have as cops

              so if they lower their standards any further , we might as well just take some of the super max prisoners out and slap a tin badge on them and hand em a gun

              • Frankly,unless they have fire fighter/paramedic skills I and most do not need cops.End all the stupid laws(including war on drugs!),allow folks to defend themselves without insane prosecutor retribution and could get by with say 5% of cops we have now.Thieves/rapists ect get shot that problem solved quickly/taxpayers save money from court/cop/prison cartels and use a little of the money for real say homicide investigations thaty also would drop as a crime with me plan.We DO NOT need the cops for protection!We NEED the GOVT. to fuck off and allow us to protect ourselves and rid country of dumb ass laws!

                • my sentiment exactly, I got your back on that one even though I’m way past my prime 🙂

                • Couldn’t agree with you more ,dammit Warchild 😉

                • Little late here, but that deserves some thunderous applause, Warchild.

              • … and the question was:

                HOW do the Ashkenazi Elitist plan to ELIMINATE 70% OF the 7.2 Billion World population?!??!

          • whoa ……I was once stationed in Millington, TN (Naval Air Station 9 miles North of Memphis), for a three-month “waste of everyone’s time and money.” *I believe it has been changed to a Naval Training Center (or something to that effect, which is odd as on the base’s Northside there are two extremely long runways (that Memphis has been paying to resurface more than once). The Navy can’t retar their own runways so they threaten to pull the Navy out of Memphis, and “Mempho” depends on those millions every year, and so they screwed Memphis into paying to “hot-top” the runways (at least twice to my knowledge, the 2nd time I was THERE to see it).

            Braveheart – I can’t imagine that many LEOs and firefights NOT being “at the ready” IN THE HUB (when I was there, everyone was in newly built Germantown, which was turning color as fast as it was being built so everyone was headed toward Collierville. Where are they now? I’ve heard Memphis has expanded to an unbelievable degree?

            • Know the place very well, my old man was stationed there as a Marine, (air-wing) back in 68, watched the house being built on Ramill Rd, not part of Memphis city at the time, it was clean and open, he retired just before it went down to what it is now, a Naval data/personal center, and a lot of the stuff that used to be available for retirees is gone too.

              I used to visit the old folks at least once a year while active duty myself, and after the old man died to see my mother that still lived in the same house until her death 3 years ago, by than it was pretty much all black, and a mess, my sister committed suicide just after mom passed away, I guess she couldn’t deal with no one left to take care of, among other things.

              I haven’t been back since and have no plans to ever go back again, the house is still there, empty as far as I know.

              • Who Knows who cares;
                Sad story you tell. I hope your life is going well now. I feel really lucky to have been raised in the country and then spent 30 years in major cities then returned to a rural area near where my parents, grandparents, and greats were raised. When you are done working a job and too old to chase women, why in the world would anyone live in the city?

              • My prayers to you right now at this moment. I hope the rough times in life have ended and blessings have started.

            • equorial

              Red Lantern and the Blue Dolphin ring a bell.

        • What i want to know,
          Is WHY
          should the taxpayers bail out a private pension fund?

          • Kula

            Taxpayers should never have to fund any type of business of private fund period. People need to be prosecuted over what has happened here.

            Problem is they are above the law currently.

            • But I saw a movie and in it Steven Seagal clearly stated, near the very ending, that “nobody is above the law.”

              You mean he was wrong?

              • I am sorry to say but yes. We need Chuck Norris to say no one is above the law before it becomes true.

        • Pubic employees are smug about their pensions being ‘written into law’.

          Pensions were also ‘written into law’ in USSR.
          I remember hearing about teachers being paid in vodka.

      3. I simply don’t care. Im not getting any pension. Many at the government trough don’t deserve any pension. It don’t matter anyhow those still working cant be robbed enough to pay for the exorbant pensions. places like Ill are broke because of lavish pensions being paid to ex government parasite employees.

        • Old Guy

          I am not disagreeing with you. I just look at both sides. You took a government job, became a fire fighter, policeman, trash collector, school teacher, electrical worker, auto worker, or any other job with a pension. You are promised health care and a pension in retirement. You work between 30 and 40 years at that job. Yes some only work like 25. But in the electric industry it is 30 years and age 60. Some start at 18 and retire at 60. 42 years you have worked. Started in 1974. You retire right now. Then a year from now you are told you are not going to get health care and a pension.

          Is it the employee, the company, or the government that is wrong here.

          If I promised you 10 dollars an hour to split my wood. You split the wood and I say oh sorry I have decided to give you 5 dollars an hour. How would you be or feel?

          • Yes but the government jobs are parasitic in that they don’t actually produce anything that adds to the GNP. Their money must be rodded (taxed) away from some produers in order to fund their parasite jobs. Its been said that the worst thing that can happen is for a majority of the people decide that they don’t have to produce. The think someone else will produce for them. And then the few producers left ask themselves Why Produce? when the fruits of my Production are robbed from me and given to parasites. and then what im allowed to keep has to unfairly compete against what was robbed from me in the market place. So the producers reduce production. Or take their production someplace where the cost of production is lower. Too many Parasite Takers and Too few producing Makers is not sustainable. Simply put the few producers left cannot afford to fund your parasite pension. Right or wrong its just that way it is.

            • Old Guy

              I agree. Read my post above ending with a quote. If you really examine it. No government worker should ever be allowed to have a union.
              It has become on huge money laundering scheme.

              Also you reminded me of something that liberals don’t understand. The government comes out and says we created 100,000 jobs. They are all government jobs. They did not create anything. They hurt the economy. Now you have 100,000 people employed by the government that are paid for by the private citizens. The government workers are also taxed by the government.

              Why can’t people understand this?

              All the government did was rob us to make themselves larger and make more people dependent on them.

            • Atlas is shrugging.

          • I agree with you Mike. It’s about keeping promises and giving people what you said you would. If it’s an unsustainable system, the system needs to be changed. The company I work for does business with the government and they offer a pension, and they’ve changed guidelines so the pension will pay out less… but that goes into effect for new people who will know what they’re getting… perhaps govt should do the same.

        • Old Guy – what about military retirees? We’re a type of ex government employees. Are we just parasites to you? Do we not deserve something for putting our lives on the line for people like you?

          • Nobody forced you to become career military. You could have got out in the real world and went to work for someone who had to make a profit from whatever work you did for them. And the military isn’t about protecting America. It hasn’t been since WWII. Its about you stupid lifers and gullible new recruits being enablers and cannon fodder for the UN- NW0 and agenda 21. It don’t matter pretty soon its all going to go kapuit. and even my pittance of a Social Security Ponzi check will be no more. And Im Ok with that. Yes to answer your question the military pension is no different than any other government parasite job,s pension. I don’t care if they stop.

            • Old guy I disagree with many of your comments, but this is spot on: “The military isn’t about protecting America.”

              It’s time for people to stop parroting what they have heard or been told and start looking at the truth. Reality even for our glorified founding fathers is a lot less rosy than anyone in this country even realizes.

              It’s a shame that many will die without even questioning the accepted version of history forced down their throats from k-12, by the media, by our parents, by the government, etc.

              • RJ

                You speak of two different things. The politicians have no intention of protecting America. Now it appears that the Admirals and Generals are just like the politicians.

                In today’s world you may be right the the military does not protect freedom. It has many times in the past. Through the original cold war for sure. The founding fathers did try to establish a government by the people and for the people.

                Example would be George Washington refusing to become King. How many people would actually refuse that I wonder?

                Whether you believe the military protects freedom or not there are several things to consider.

                1 – What would happen in this country if we did away with the military tomorrow.
                2 – What would happen if we did away with cops and firefighters too for that matter.
                3 – What made the country the greatest in the world.
                4 – Is it the guys who join the military or those leading the country that are not for freedom.
                5 – Does the tree of liberty require protection, blood, and sometimes death.
                6 – Without the current military would other countries just sit back and be overjoyed with us. Or would the greedy and evil try to come take this country.
                7 – If the military is not protecting our freedom in some way then what is it doing. I would agree that the leaders use it for greed and power but is it protecting us from other countries in anyway.
                8 – Do leaders of other countries do the things that our leaders do.
                9 – Do leaders of other countries desire power and money?
                10 – Do the armed forces of other countries protect the rights of that country all the time or are they used for power and money.

                And for you and old guy I have one last question.

                What would be your solutions?

                • Mike, it is a double edged sword when it comes to having a military. On the one hand without one we would more than likely have been taken over by another country decades ago. Yet when you have the government using the military as a defacto dictatorship to destroy the rights and freedoms of other countries (so your country can stay in power) it is morally wrong.

                  The United States has never interfered in any country unless it was to protect their money and power.

                  Will you acknowledge this fact?

                  Cheney gave nukes to North Korea – why would he do that? The soldiers in Afghanistan are there to protect the drug trade (i.e. poppies).

                  It was known that Japan would bomb Pearl Harbor and it was allowed to happen.

                  Libya was invaded because of Gaddafi’s plans to build a water system for his people – you can’t have nations being self sufficient because than how will you control them?

                  Heck even the Boston tea party was not about a tax on tea. It was about money and getting rid of the

                  You asked – What made this country the greatest in the world?

                  My answer – The reason we have always been on top is because we have a leaders willing to do the most immoral and inhumane things to benefit themselves with enough scraps to make the people feel like they are important. Not one thing America has done has even qualified it to be the great country in the world.

                  Sure we are a powerful nation (yet even this will come to an end eventually) but it is not because we had founding fathers or people in power who were goody two shoes pollyana’s.

                  Quite the opposite is true about the people who founded and started this country. Think about the legacy of what was done to the Indians. That is the fruit of who our government is at it’s core. That is the people who make the decisions. That is the people who lead us.

                  Yes there are many who join the military because they believe they are doing something good, noble and positive for their country.

                  The truth is that these well meaning people are used as cannon fodder. Think when the beaches of Normandy were stormed how many died because of such a stupid military tactic. They are just expendable pieces in a game between leaders of other countries. Taught not to think but to follow orders without question.

                  That is why the military likes to get their hands on new recruits as young and naive as possible. It makes the manipulation and control easier than having MEN with experience to convince.

                  This blind allegiance is so ingrained in most members of the military that it is a rare thing to hear a former service person speak about what really happened in a war time scenario or what their military experience was really like.

                  The reason that vets are treated so poorly is because once they are no longer a usable commodity the government sees no reason to spend money on that person. Like a battery that has reached the end of it’s life it is just thrown away and discarded.

                  If we cannot acknowledge the truth about our own nation. How can we change things if we won’t admit that there is something rotten that needs to be changed?

                  The road to hell is paved with good intentions. Let’s just stop traveling down that road. That would be a good start.

            • Old Guy

              Did you burn your draft card and run to Canada?

          • More than they can ever repay brother.
            They treat enemy prisoners with better health care than we do those who sacrificed to put them there.
            But I digress, why should I as a taxpayer be liable for a private companies pension?
            Other than the fact that they are unions.

          • Vets are definitely NOT parasites period.
            Not sure what the argument is here, the article isnt about a gov pension fund but a private one.
            Gov pensions were stuck payin them no matter what, but wtf is the reasoning for a taxpayer bailout of the teamsters?

            • Think whatever you want. However if what you do does not use the natural resources of the planet to make -build or Grow something that adds to the GNP. If your not a vital link in that chain of production you are indeed a parasite. And the military are parasites. I didn’t differentate between necessary and unnecessary or greater and lesser degrees of the parasite takers.

              • Old guy, the next time there is a war, robbery, or fire at your home, pleas don’t call any of the government worker because they will parasite off from you. You are an idiot and senile because of your age. Do all of us a favor and jump off a tall bridge so us parasites don’t have to deal with you.

                • Struck a nerve. .gov produces NOTHING. The military IS NOT a career. Had you ACTUALLY put your butt on the line for 20 or 30 years, the law of averages would have caught up with you and you’d be dead. A supply clerk doesn’t put his butt on the line. I read about a female ‘soldier’ who got a combat medal for her ‘service’ in Afghanistan. She scheduled people’s time off.

                  • Gim

                    Sorry but not true. If any soldier enlist then there is the possibility of deployment. The training you go through at times puts your life on the line even before you become whatever job you enlisted to become.

                    Then in a combat zone you must get to the place. There are many transportation people who have ended up in fire fights trying to get supplies or personnel to there assigned location. Then there is always the threat of mortars, IED,s or just a random sniper when you walk out of the building or tent you are in. All soldiers put there life on the dotted line when they sign up. Whether they realize it or not. No matter what branch or job. The navy for example has Russian aircraft buzzing them. Iranians that shoot missiles near them. Chinese who confront them. Then if your are a recruiter you become a target to Muslim nut jobs who come in and shoot up the place and you have no way to respond because the dumb ass government won’t allow you to arm yourself.

                    Need any more examples?

                • I don’t plan on calling any of those folks. And I have had a fire and no insurance. Paid for home. and If I have another I still wouldn’t call the fire dept. And I never call the cops. Go get a job in the real world and quit sucking at the taxpayers teat. From now on every time you look in the even though you will probably never admit it. But deep down you know your a taking parasite. You are a part of the problem not the solution.

                  • Old Guy

                    Glad you did not call. You have the freedom to not call do to people willing to fight to protect that freedom.

                  • Old Guy you are absolutely correct. People in this country need to learn to solve their own problems. The world we live in today is the direct result of people running to their Big Nanny with every little complaint and annoyance. If only every able bodied person in the country would gain the skills and determination to provide for their own basic needs we could put the bastards out of business for lack of customers.

              • Old Guy

                Without the so called parasitic military you speak of you would not be doing anything by choice. Including trying to yank the chain of others.

                The parasites that go in the military allow you to speak freely, own guns, worship as you see fit or not, make things, grow things, and build things.

                The parasites fought for freedom in 1776, 1812, 1914, 1941, and have fought against perceived threats the whole history of this once great country.

                There are very few things that I get rude over. But the military guys are one. Reason is whether you agree or disagree with it. At some time they took and oath and would have given up there own life to try to keep this country great.

                They would have given there life for you so that you could build, grow, or make things as you choose.

                To anyone that does not realize that I say this. You are stupid and naive about what you is required to give you freedom. You don’t understand history and the price that was paid to give you what you have today good or bad. You are preaching about something that you did not have the guts to do yourself.
                The tree of liberty must be protected, fought for, and yes you have to die for it. All in the military took an oath to protect that tree with there life if necessary. I know those who have died.

                • Maybe he got a Section 8 and turfed. Judged “not suitable for military life?” and general discharge? Who knows. Screw him We who served did it for ourselves, our families, and our nation, which unfortunately holds nutcases like this one, but he does have the right to speak. When Charles is doing his best to wax your ass, the reality of it all is very, very, too truly real. That zip wasn’t a mosquito -that was a 7.62X39 that thank God didn’t hit you or anybody else. Let him rave. We who volunteered got what we wanted (usually) and the rest got what they were told. For my money, 6 weeks after a person graduates from high school. off they go to basic training and 2 years service – bring back the draft so these people not only understand the have a stake in this nation, but what the stakes really are, Mennonites, Co’s, all the leeches particularly, go into Combat arms as riflemen, machine gunners, wherever the fighting is the toughest. In short, if this country is good enough to live and have the freedoms and opportunities we have then it’s good enough to fight and if necessary die for. Freedom ain’t free – there are , I believe 10,000 bodies, buried above Omaha Beach. Despite bodies floating and flying all around them, they still wen forward. Because they didn’t wan to have to be fighting an invader on Fort. Lauderdale or San Francisco beaches. These cretins who thing the world would just be OK if we didn’t have armies and men and women to protect us stationed on land, in and under the water, and in the sky, every thing would be just sweet hunky-dory. It ain’t, it never has been, and never will be, because there have been, are, and will be those who mistake peacefulness for cowardice. And will attack: witness 9-11. Khobar Towers (that was just plain failure of leadership to recognize a potential threat and barricade against- I hope they broke his ass down to buck private and sent him on his way. OLD GUY: ENTHRALL US WITH YOUR MILITARY HISTORY? PR DID YOU CHICKEN-SHIT OUT-RUN AWAY, GET MARRIED, GO TO COLLEGE, ETC. daddy WAS some BODY? Plainly, YOU SOUND LIKE WHAT MY FIRST STEP-FATHER DESCRIBED A SA MAN WITH A paper asshole – so full of shit it’s running out your mouth. The real hero’s died, as any person with military history will tell,. All the rest, even the CMOH winner’s will tell you that. They were courageous beyond and above-far above- the call of duty to win the CMOH. But the truest of heroes are ones we found enough of to bury, or had noting left but bits and small pieces splattered around. How do you take that back? There ain’t no vacuum cleaners on the battlefield. JUST SHUT THE HELL UP !!! Mike above has his shit straight. And I’m glad you weren’t at my 3, 6, or 9 : I don’t think you could have been trusted to be there for me as I would have been there for you. Above all, this is the one that I really pisses me of, violently so. When you sign that paper and Speak that oath, your ass is no longer yours but Uncle Sam’s, just like a truck or a tank: you’ll go and do what you’re told when and how and keep that hole in your face shut. about it. I felt it was an honor to serve as a Marine, and I still do. At 69 I’m a fair long distance shooter, my trigger finger is still good, and I’d go in a heartbeat if needed. You, I suspect would light out for parts unknown, which would be OK, because we don’t need or want trash with us – we have our own load to carry. Better to die on their ground killing them, if death is inevitable, which it is once you are conceived, than defending your own here at home.

                  • Nope I got a high number in the Draft lottery. And veitnam just like korea and al the wars since where not about keeping America free. They where the USA doing the Un,s bidding. The young lives wasted being cannon fodder. The saying old men start wars and young men fight them comes to mind. Its a brain washing that they give in basic training that makes you believe you where fighting for Americas freedoms. Your lives where risked to farther the goals of the UN ,NWO and Agenda 21. Anyone who would bring back the draft and conscript other folks young kids to fight rich mens wars. A pox on you. How about this you take care of you and yours and I will take care of me and mine. Remember the Founding father,s warned of getting into foreign entanglements.

                    • Again Old Guy you are correct. I served 4 years in the U.S Army Infantry as a machine gunner and eventually squad leader. I’ll say that the Army is full of quite remarkable men who do amazing things and I’m sure many are bonafide heroes. Problem is they are being used to control and secure the natural resources of other sovereign nations for the enrichment of the big multi-national corporations. They are not fighting for freedom.

            • Mongoose & Kulafarmer – Sorry about my little rant. That old fart was at the end of a long list of irritants this morning and I had to unload on someone, even for just a bit. But I do not apologize for what I said. It’s people like him that make me question why I stayed for 20 years and why I felt the need and desire to serve a generally ungrateful nation.

              • Nub: that makes two of us in the same boat. Your turn to row man…

                • Equorial – guess that’s true for almost any vet.

              • @ Nubmaeme…dont sweat what Old Guy says, as he is actually a parasite under his own definition….receiving more SS than he has paid into. There is nothing wrong with receiving a gov pension as 90% or more have actually earned it. And the military are not parasites….politicians are.

                • Dave – Old Guy’s asinine remarks simply pushed the wrong button this morning. Also, I just hate knowing that something I paid into for 47 years is going to someone like him. Oh well, c’est la vie!

                  • Yes its abrasive. However its true. Too many takers and too few makers is not sustainable. And the lions share of parasite takers are feeding at the government trough. Ive not yet recouped what I paid into the Social Security Ponzi scheme. Perhaps the collapse will come soon and I will not come out ahead? That’s Ok by me.

                    • Old guy you could not be more wrong about that? What are you thinking? Social Security is basically a tax placed on peoples pay checks by force. They have no choice in the matter. The money that is taken out should be theirs period. They earned it.

                      The parasites are the politicians who have taken the money. They also are the ones who have given the money to those that have not worked. They have even given money to people who are not citizens.

                • Get over classifying SS recipients as parasites.

                  I have run the numbers, if you just use the era’s Insurance Company Whole Life cash value (putrid) interest rates (3%) over our (wife and I) working lifetime. we will be in our late 80s before we ever get even. Oh, and we were putting dollars into SS that were worth 7 times what they are worth today. No damn 3% can ever come close to recovering that. Taking out the number of dollars you put in is worse than meaningless <bb

              • No apologies necessary, we all need to blow some steam from time to time and those of us who visit Macs site have all done it from time to time and have ruffled more than a few feathers

              • He’s just a senile troll that believes the tripe he spews.

                If he was honest, he’d rise up and revolt against the evil system he rants about, but he’s too cowardly for that. Keyboard commando with a high draft number, he never had to put his beliefs on the line.

            • Kulafarmer, well said again. Nobody should blame the folks that served in our military for the idiocy that happens in Washington D.C.

          • The military is one of just a few responsibilities of government. It is required. It is allowed in the constitution. That is not what I am talking about.

            Dept. of Education for example. Agriculture, EPA, Land Management, IRS, DHS, FBI, CIA, NSA, Dept of State, ATF, OSHA, Commerce, Energy, Health and Human Services, Treasury, Transportation, Interior, Justice, Housing and Urban Development, and Department of Labor.

            All things that need to be abolished in my opinion. CIA, and NSA should fall under military control. All the Czars that have appointments. Even border patrol should be handled by the states in my opinion.

            These links will take you to lists of other Federal Government Entities

            Congressionally chartered nonprofit organizations
            Federal Advisory Committees (Boards, Commissions, Groups, Panels, etc.)
            Government-owned corporations
            Government-sponsored enterprise
            List of federally funded research and development centers

            It becomes mind boggling when you look at all the federal government is involved in. Oh lets not forget the sexual molesting TSA.

          • Adding to that, what of 100% disabled Veterans? Are you saying that a Navy SEAL who had his legs and ass blown off trying to uphold his Oath to America is a “parasite”?

            Should that SEAL have died instead and made it easier on everyone back home? Perhaps just “pop himself” knowing he’d be a “useless eater” and “parasite”?

            • I know some vetrans who get 100% disability and there aint really anything wrong with them. Ok This is the SHTF site. And when Shit really does hit the fan. and We sky rocket back to the stone age. Many oxygen thieves like your imaginary seal. They will be left to die or if they are lucky smothered by a loved one. again I never differentiated between deserved or not deserved or necessary or unnecessary parasites. When the host is dying because of too many parasites the end result is the same no matter what brand of parasite they are. Too many parasite takers (no matter how deserving) and too few producing makers is not long term sustainable. Time is indeed running out. Right or wrong that’s just the way things are.

              • Old Guy

                There are always good and bad in every organization. The majority are good hard working people though.

                Remember that!

              • Just remember all those rants about parasites when SHTF and you can’t be bothered to help with the community.

        • A long time ago the benefits were to make up for lower salaries as govt. at all levels was not able to compete with private market jobs salary wise,funny how that has 180d!

      4. Teamsters are POS. Whenever they go on strike, they interfere with non-union labor who are just out there trying to support their families. At least non-union labor seems to have their priorities straight. People in unions are always taking care of the unions first and putting their families on the back burner. THAT’S NOT HOW IT’S SUPPOSED TO BE. Let’s see how the Teamsters look at their beloved Democratic Party leaders now. And I don’t think ANY of our tax dollars should be going to bail out the Teamsters. I don’t owe anyone any damned thing.

        • I have been a union member most of my career and I have
          ALWAYS put my family first. Don’t lump all union members as
          left/democrat/liberal. Even in the private sector, once funds
          are outside the realm of union/mgt. control and fall under
          statutory regulation, all bets are off. You need to get out of the divide and conquer mind-set trap and focus at another level to see where the problems truly are. The gov’t and banks with their back room deals that get codified into law without you even knowing it.
          (G-20 summits)
          BTW: I am very conservative when it comes to ethics and morals, I also accept responsibility for all my actions and teach my children the same, and I am 200% behind LESS gov’t oversight. So please don’t paint me with the same brush.

      5. All this began when Bill Clinton did away with the Glass Steagell Act that prevented banks from playing with customers money. Brokers have a responsibility to take care of their customers money. Banks could care less. The banks have shown no restraint in their manipulation of the stock market for profits. Hence The Bank Bail outs, and other fraudulent actions.
        All these problems can be directly related to the policies of the Clinton Administration actions.
        Democrats and Liberals do not believe it, because they are willingly ignorant.

        • All this began when Bill Clinton…

          All this began when the ‘silent majority’ stopped paying attention and willfully bought into the notion that
          ‘my vote doesn’t make a difference anyway’ mindset. If a
          population that was engaged politically and of a critical mindset stepped in to question activities at all levels of gov’t., we would not be in the situation we are in now.
          There are no politicians trying to explain things anymore to an informed and educated population, all we get is a news blurb stating that this is how it’s going to be and this is what we are going to do and there isn’t f**#-all you can do about it.
          When was the last time you heard a politician actually have to explain themselves when they openly supported policy
          that contradicted ANYTHING in the constitution, a direct violation of oath of office, and yet the silent majority accept it, no questions asked.
          You can’t even question things anymore without the threat of prosecution.
          I look around today and all I see are sheep told what to do via their so-called ‘smart devices’ with no knowledge of who is on the other side of that screen that is manipulating them. People (sheep) willingly accept what they are told nowadays with no questions asked.
          So don’t blame it on any one politician, you need to look in the mirror. There are checks and balances to everything.

          • Thats the problem with the same stupid people electing the same stupid corrupt people to office over and over and over.

          • Eisenhower saw it coming in the 50s. The banks and businesses with their lobbyists run the government now, not the people. That is why we are in the state we are in. There will soon be civil upheaval here and abroad because of it. when people have nothing left to lose its going to get nasty.

            • Nothing to lose Jim,but,perhaps we fight hard enuff/get our common goals together,well……,then everything to gain!


              If the government should turn tyrannical, (as they knew it would), they are explicit as what we are to do.

              So …what’s the damned problem? Too busy? Don’t want to make waves. Don’t want to have a rap sheet? Afraid of death? (Man are YOU in trouble …someday).

              Rant over, thanks.

      6. Drawing a municipal pension here for nearly 13 years, meaning I’ve been getting fully paid for nearly 65 percent of the time I actually “worked” for the state (20 years.) Sorry folks, I’m betting and hoping on a bail out. Thanks! Time for my mid day nap.

        • Sorry,are not paying even more in taxes,property or otherwise,plus,you had plenty of nap time on govt. job!Join the rest of the wally world door greeters!This of course is just another way to divide the country,lets go!

      7. Old Guy.

        I don’t care either.

        Hope and Change. That’s the Ticket.

        • sometimes I get a kick out of rattling someones cage. Deep down they know it was too good to be true. So the pension bubble isn’t gonna pop. Its being deflated. It was all hot air anyway. And I really don’t care. You think the pensioners who are bankrupting places like Illinois care?

      8. I hear that gigantic sucking sound – it’s getting closer.


        There isn’t anything left for us.

        The right got it all!

        G. Carlin, RIP…..

      9. If anyone thinks my pension is big your nuts.
        I’m a city bus driver at full pay and I work part time as well just to make it.
        I thought a while ago maybe I might get 300 bucks a month after 10 years of full time working. Its better than zero but get real IT AINT HUGE!!!!!!!!!!!!
        The teamsters union came with the job I didn’t choose it and was glad to get the job.
        Would I be OK if I was on welfare?
        You would be amazed at the crap I put up with driving a city bus. And anybody who thinks some computer driver thingy can drive a bus in this crazy town is NUTS.
        I mean it, it will NEVER happen.
        Have a nice day STU OUT

      10. The simple fact is nothing will happen to the crooks who ripped off the fund. So now the taxpayers are supposed to pick up the tab. hell no, nobody picks up the tab if I don’t manage my business so why should we pick up the tab for a bloated pension fund. The reality is there are hundreds of trillions in unfunded pensions and there just isn’t any way possible to bail them out.

      11. Back when the auto makers went to shit and ford stock dropped to 1 dollar a share the price it was durring the depression was when they should have pulled the plug and let thoes ships sink instead of the bail out of the auto makers and the cash for clunkers was horribly wrong cus have you seen the price of used vehicles they want 5 grand for one with 150,000 miles on it and 10 years old thats a 1 or 2 grand car in my opinion but then again just another way to destroy the middle class now i dont know about you but a 4×4 truck here new costs 35 to 55 grand but what gets me is you can buy a nice 3,4 bedroom home at that price

        • Ps should have bought ford stock back then but who would have imagined the shit they pulled to save them

        • Godsoldier, I agree. Cash for Clunkers was a freakin’ joke. People are still better off going to a private owner and getting something for cash only. That’s what I’ve always done. Back in Feb. I bought a 2000 Honda Odyssey minvan from the original owner for only $1800 cash. The “buy here pay here” car lots in my area want $3000-$4000 for a similar van the same year, plus they probably have at least 200000 miles or more on them. My van only has 124000 on it. I’ve got it in the shop right now for some front-end work; other than that it’s in good shape and everything works. Even has cold A/C. Braveheart never pays out of the nose for any kind of vehicle. Just pay cash up front and get it over with so you don’t have any stinking notes to worry about.

          • Great vehicle. Holds a ton of stuff, good mileage, strong motor and reliable.

            • Damn. I can remember when a BRAND NEW “FULLY-DRESSED” 350 GM Engine was guaranteed to lose it’s water pump at 60,000 miles and jump the timing-gear-cog/chain somewhere around 80,000 (depending on well it was cared for).

              Now the same engine is capable of hitting 1/2 million miles (with rebuilds of course). Our older Deville had over 330,000 and still purred when it was sold (and five years later, the buyer, she’s still driving her around town, no problems yet). She and our newer CTS-V only see synthetic 10-40w (Mobil 1). Great for gun-oil too but NOT so ‘lightweight’!!!! I don’t change oil at 3,000 miles. I change it when it starts to turn ‘tea-colored’, which means IS dirt. Period. So, git rid of it! lol…
              I also use two filters (Mobil 1’s) …or rather, new one every 1500 miles. I need not say it, but today’s damned regular gas is DIRTY DIRTY DIRTY.
              Raised our Horsepower by 17 horses just by putting on one of those A&R Lifetime Filters (you clean them yourself and reoil as needed). They run about $250 ‘max’ yet you WILL see an increase in performance, gas mileage (if light-footed), horsepower and overall “smoothness” of a non-air-starved engine. (With twin-turbos OF COURSE it makes those mufflers ‘sing’ …alot like the old cherry bomb mufflers once did with V8’s …”in the good ole days” – never thought I would hear myself say that).
              What good is it for a prepper? Dunno. Hasn’t been tested yet? I’d be damned hard to catch on these mountain roads, that much is for sure. lol…
              Seriously, we do have a Jeep that’s all lifted, has the old diesel with a non-electric pump, so she’ll start EMP or not, plus heavily ‘lugged’ (sides-too) 48″ tires AND both axles are 3/4 ton vs 1/2 ton Dana axles (or some Jeeps now have Plymouth rearends, or at least they did). Winches fore and aft she’s ready as she’ll ever be. (DOES run on vegetable oil too, which I found amazing. It is a truth that it does smell like a big donut is cooking when that diesel is burning vege-oil! (lacks power when you burn that stuff too, somewhat)… lol…

              • Eq,48″ a bit too much for serious rock climbing/way to tippy and such.I do love old school carbs/mechanical pumps but the one thing FI gives you if practically vertical climbing without fuel starvation,I run 36″ at most and even that too tippy in my opinion.

                My 79 scottsdale 1/2 ton with 350/4 bolt main did fine for 160,000 when sold,did change oil religiously though.I had dual quads/cam/ported the heads and intake just to matching specs,would smoke 36″ tires easily in 4 wheel,only did once to try it!

                My 4×4 van(79 E-100 on 75 F-250 frame)only ran 33″,did fine clearing most obstacles and in a shtf do not want to push it further,winch me only tow truck and van me only parts store for most part!

          • I know a guy who bought two clunkers for about $500 apiece, got them to a dealership, and took the $6000 discount on two little KIA cars for his daughters to take to college. Since he was buying two cars for cash, he got a very good price on them, then the gov’t subsidy off that. I think he ending up paying about $7000 apiece for the new cars.

      12. Inevitably the pensions were underfunded. if your promised X and given Y that would be, “theft by deception”, anywhere but in the employer / employee relationship. When to comes to employees business can lie, cheat and in this case steal. Murder is not above them as the dangers of asbestos exposure was known in the 1920s when the insurance industry wouldn’t insure an asbestos worker. John Manville himself when told of the danger was asked what are the workers going to do? His reply, “They’ll work until they die”. He fortunately got asbestos lung cancer himself proving, “There is a God”. Recently a CEO of a coal mine got one year in jail for violating Safety Regulations resulting in multiple fatalities. Think its bad now, just wait until the full effects of globalization kick in.

        My wife was crippled in an industrial accident in a Chrysler facility. They went bankrupt and the Workmen’s Compensation ended including medical. They we’re “Too big to fail” and the State allowed them to be self insured and did not back them up. A pure case of, “Theft by deception” as it was not implied but in writing that there was Workmen’s Compensation. Accepting same and you can’t sue. So you accept Workmen’s Compensation, don’t sue, they go bankrupt, renege on their Workmen’s Compensation obligations and you were thereby circumvented your 7th Amendment rights. The successor Fiat uses Chryslers name without the legacy liabilities. That is skipping out on your debts.

        • Kevin

          Prayers to you my friend.

        • Kevin2:

          I am sorry to hear that your wife was injured and then abandoned by her employer.

          • Guys

            Thanks. Its even more interesting that the X rays were supposed to be sent to her personal physician but weren’t. The “Company Doctor” gave her two weeks off and told her it was just a bruise. As her condition worsened, with us believing that there was no spine damage she chalked up her pain to everything else. Her personal physician ruled out arthritis not explaining that she ruled out rheumatoid but not ostio (spelling). Just so “conveniently”, she managed to get put into a very easy job post accident. This prolonged the diagnosis from her physician as her work was easy. Time progressed, she worsened and she couldn’t do her easy job at all. They attempted to fire her and then the deck of cards started to unravel. Turns out she was never even listed as an OSHA recordable even though she left the facility in an ambulance at the time of the accident. The X rays showed obvious spine damage that a damn layman let alone a trained physician could see. Cry about Unions the UAW saved her job. It was criminal in nature and there is not even a civil remedy.

            Cemeteries are filled with people that died an early death at the criminal hand of employers. Conversely while her employer was very bad, mine was at the other end of the spectrum, honest, forthright, compassionate, respectful and generous; thank God for that.

            • In the end if I were to generalize and was given but two choices to trust a Union or trust an Employer I’ll opt for the former as they won’t kill you for increased profits.

              • I am starting to believe that I did the right thing by joining The Navy when I did. (It was that or drive a frigging ‘chicken truck’ (semis loaded with birds), but shortly after I left for The Navy the entire east coast chicken industry was “all of a sudden” taken over by Purdue Chicken (or a name close to that).
                Either way, in Maine I would have NEVER had found a decent job nor education.
                Therefore, I had NO CHOICE but to stay enlisted or get out and lose my ass. Would you have gotten out knowing you would have starved? haha….hell no.

                Things are rapidly changing though. Not all that long ago, if you were a veteran you were REVERED, and people all over we’re dressing up like soldiers to ‘reap the rewards’ of being in the service (Stolen Valor) remember?
                Now, it seems to be steering back to as it was post-vietnam …babykillers, etc. I ain’t gonna listen to that shit again… so there’s another “division” to add to the hate list. Must Kill All Anti-Veteran Assholes …and my money is ‘on the vet’ every time, but of course.

                • I highly respect the Vet but have none for the politicians that fraudulently send them into harms way.

      13. As far as I am concerned the Teamsters or any other organization that wants my tax dollar to bail them out of anything can contract STD’s (Starve To Death.)

      14. Im not looking to buy just cant get over the prices they want for used cars and the miles on them for the price ive alwaus bought used but damn im used to paying 5 to 7 grand for a taurus with 40,50 thousand miles on it but its been a few years i suppose its a combo of lack of supply of good used due to the price of a new one people are driving them till they fall apart and inflation/decreased value of the dollar its insane people paying 50k for a vehicle im thinking alot of people lease nowadays cus if not then their car cost damn near as much as their home

      15. Used motorhomes are priced good still and they are mostly low miles under 60k

        • I would like a old Toyota dolphin with the 20 r motor,then add transfer case/tranny combo and front drive axle,a get you around at a fair price gas wise motor home.

      16. My mom has a pension from Firestone from my dad’s working there 32 years before he died. She now gets $87 a month because they keep hitting it for her portion of insurance. What would she do for a place to live on that and SS for $1,100 a month if she wasn’t living with us? I’m also a court reporter and have reported many of the City/County pension hearings where they tell the unions they don’t have enough money and they have to cut benefits or no one will get pensions. They won’t agree to it. Just keep saying that’s what they were promised. Well, that’s not going to feed anyone when it’s gone.

        • In the end the feeder system is that private employers pay workers well and they can then afford to pay the governmental workers well. The former have fled to cheap labor via Free Trade and hence the latter can no longer pay to maintain the promises

          Thank you NAFTA, China Free Trade and soon TPP. Shit rolls down hill.

          • yes the current crop of makers are relatively lower paid. the current makers have lost ground. Do the retired Takers care? Heck no! they think somehow the few low paid current makers should be Robbed even more to fund their promised lifestyle. The current makers didn’t promise them anything? Why should they be required to pay? The lions share of the union and government workers voted for the very Democraps who destroyed the producing jobs. I say let them reap what they had sown.

            • Part of your compensation today, is the guarantee of X for pension tomorrow. Pension is not merely implied. Pension is included in tabulating compensation. Pay less than what is promised and we have fraud. Interestingly as companies fail the Board Of Directors tend to rape the company, treating it as theres and establishing compensation first to themselves and at the expense of both shareholders and employees. In its crude illegal form its embezzlement, however its legally massaged distribution is just as unethical, fully legal and referred as a “Parachute”.

              ” The lions share of the union and government workers voted for the very Democraps who destroyed the producing jobs.”

              Regarding NAFTA, China Free Trade and De-Regulating the Financial Sector it would have been very difficult to find a Republican that was against these issues. While Clinton signed it Republicans were fully supportive with GH Bush 41 trying his best to get it through.

      17. Never trust others with your money… Like an self directed IRA every American from birth should have their own IPF (individual pension fund) and individual health, disability. Dump Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, company, government and union pensions. Who ever you work for will contribute but it’s your account and you’re 100% vested. Yes there will need to be a minimum guideline, but aside from that private companies will have to compete for your business.

        • I agree 🙂

      18. Why am I as a taxpayer footing the bill for the Teamsters???

      19. Ya well if Jimmy Hoffa was still running things over at the Teamsters it woulda never happened.

        • The old Teamsters had a saying. “Jimmy Hoffa might have stole a dollar, but he gave the working man 50 cents”.

      20. Every year I get a report on my pensions monetary health verified by external auditors. Both pensions are funded in excess of 100% in very conservative mix of bonds, real estate, corporate bonds, etc.
        In the private world the truckers should have known they were getting screwed, because the same information is available to them on their retirement. As far as non-federal government employees they should have paid closer attention to what the funding levels were, where the future funds were going to be coming from, and demanded it be fixed at contract time, if
        it was insufficient.
        Federal retirement is an entirely different picture as I believe it is funded fiscal year to fiscal year, and the government can print all the money it needs. Unless politics gets involved(as it does when they screw over the military) you can assume they will get their full retirement, until we over throw the Democrat tyrants that rule us.
        Something everyone here should be against is built in government inflation. That is the retirement killer. Fed policy of 3% inflation per year guarantees poverty in your old age. I’d rather see NO inflation.
        I feel for the millions of pensioners that are going to get screwed. I was taught to start planing my retirement as soon as I started working, it is as important as my food, housing, health, and transportation.
        It is called prepping.

      21. rellik

        “Every year I get a report on my pensions monetary health verified by external auditors.”

        I wish you luck. Someone picks the “external auditors”. Bottom line is what ya gonna do? You do the best you can as you obviously do and hope that your not a casualty.

        • Even in a world full of crooked banks, corporations, stocks, governments, They all need a neutral party at some point.
          The auditors I refer to are world class neutral.
          As to what ya going to do? Always have a plan, because
          Everything will fail(I’m paraphrasing the
          2nd law of Thermodynamics).
          Prep on!

      22. Always got money for bombs though. Always plenty to bail out the Zionist banking cartel.

      23. What?? You mean there is no free lunch??

        I am 62, an except for these little ADHD breaks I take to post here, I work through lunch, and usually up to midnite or 1 AM.

        I have no sympathy for the lazy types who want to steal from me so they can sit on their derrieres sipping martinis

      24. Go after the people responsible for the losses, THE BANKERS/BANKS WHO CREATED THE FRAUDULENT WORTHLESS DERIVATIVES!

      25. I’m ok with them raiding the fund. I got my own agenda. They can only hurt you if you trust them with your $. Never trust anyone with your$. Promises do get broken whuddrya gone do. I don’t let me down that’s all I know. So sick of hearing the whining about the fund shit I gotta hear it at work and now I gotta hear it on the plan. Damn go work for someone who does a 401k plan and doesent match any$ see f they don’t raid that too down the road.

      26. “Driverless trucks” will be very limited.

        How do “driverless trucks” put on and take chains off in winter as required to cross the rockies?

        How do “driverless trucks” manage to see when the LIDAR will be sheared off by low bridges (or they have to stop and figure how to reverse course on an expressway)? How do they have the precision for what are for trucks narrow lanes, and they aren’t domes like the Google driverless cars but boxes?

        That said, the PBGC is yet another scam allowing Wall Street to inflate earnings as companies can pretend they can get 8% annually eternally, then declare bankruptcy when they can’t

        • If I were to put on my engineer hat.
          I’d design driverless trucks to work
          like a train. The guys would be care keepers.
          Much like modern aircraft pilots. They are only
          there for when things go really bad. Truck sitters
          could put on chains, and decide when to
          stop till weather clears, help the
          SOB whose car is on fire 50 miles out of town,
          or drive the tractor when being pulled out of the
          We are not even close to taking humans out of
          areas, where ingenuity is needed, and fear
          is real, but we can certainly automate the
          drudgery parts of driving work in controlled areas
          like an I-90 or I-10.

          • No you cant avoid Murphys law. When the driverless truck has a blowout or the airline blows it cant be programmed to react like a experienced driver. I drove for more than 40 years. and I wouldn’t want to be on any road with driverless 80,000 pound trucks.

            • Watch Congress pass a law attached to something with a good name like “The Clild Protection Act” that caps any law suit award in event this monstrosity goes awry. The USSC will sit silent regarding its 7th Amendment implications.

      27. 5000 loot supermarket in Venezuela looking for food.

        Countless wounded


      28. Promises were made that can not be kept. Someone will be expected to pick up the tab to keep the game going.

      29. Sorry, but I have no sympathy for greedy Union morons and their lavish scams called “pensions”

      30. Clinton Staffer’s Emails Still Missing – The Perfect Storm – Judge Andrew Napolitano – The Kelly File
        Kremlin Having Debate Whether To Release the 20,000 they hacked

        “Hillary Clinton sits at the center of a raging firestorm concerning her arrangement of a private email account and server set up in her home – from which top secret information may have been deleted.

        …the scandal just exponentially intensified, when Judge Andrew Napolitano revealed on Monday that Russia has possession of around 20,000 of Clinton’s emails – leaving open the possibility her deletions might not have been permanent after all.”

        “With Clinton’s repeated claims she employed the personal email server only for mundane communications and non-sensitive State matters having been proven outright lies, the deletions of 31,830 emails — in the new context of Napolitano’s statement — have suddenly become remarkably relevant.”


      31. Screw the greedy, power hungry unions and their criminal pensions! They killed American manufacturing jobs, and are a death anchor to thousands of municipalities and school systems all across the country. Death to Unions!

      32. Death to the Unions! Their pensions are nothing more than a money grab, killing companies, cities and towns, and school systems. Not to mention organized crime with their thug gangs and leadership calling for bloodshed whenever there is even mention of competition. Look at the film/tv/media industry in Boston! Non-union worksites are terrorized, people harassed and attacked, and tires slashed. Thank you Local 25! God damned terrorists wearing a Union pin.

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