History In the Making – U.S. DEBT DOWNGRADED – Should We Panic?

by | Aug 6, 2011 | Headline News | 270 comments

Do you LOVE America?


    For the first time in history, The United States of America has had its debt rating downgraded by globally recognized ratings firm Standard & Poor’s.

    We have lowered our long-term sovereign credit rating on the United States of America to ‘AA+’ from ‘AAA’ and affirmed the ‘A-1+’ short-term rating.

    We have also removed both the short- and long-term ratings from CreditWatch negative.

    The downgrade reflects our opinion that the fiscal consolidation plan that Congress and the Administration recently agreed to falls short of what, in our view, would be necessary to stabilize the government’s medium-term debt dynamics.

    More broadly, the downgrade reflects our view that the effectiveness, stability, and predictability of American policymaking and political institutions have weakened at a time of ongoing fiscal and economic challenges to a degree more than we envisioned when we assigned a negative outlook to the rating on April 18, 2011.

    We lowered our long-term rating on the U.S. because we believe that the prolonged controversy over raising the statutory debt ceiling and the related fiscal policy debate indicate that further near-term progress containing the growth in public spending, especially on entitlements, or on reaching an agreement on raising revenues is less likely than we previously assumed and will remain a contentious and fitful process. We also believe that the fiscal consolidation plan that Congress and the Administration agreed to this week falls short of the amount that we believe is necessary to stabilize the general government debt burden by the middle of the decade.

    Source: Zero Hedge

    This comes on the heels of a downgrade earlier Friday by China’s leading credit ratings agency Dagong Global Credit Rating Company, which lowered US debt to ‘A’ after having lowered in late 2010 to an ‘A+.’

    “The squabbling between the two political parties on raising the U.S. debt ceiling reflected an irreversible trend on the United States’ declining ability to repay its debts,” Dagong Chairman Guan Jianzhong told CNN.

    “The two parties acted in a very irresponsible way and their actions greatly exposed the negative impact of the U.S. political system on its economic fundamentals,” he said.

    Our downgrade simply reflects reality,” Guan said.

    Source: CNN

    We’ve previously noted that the reality of the situation is we don’t need ratings agencies to tell us what we already know. Our debt has now exceeded 100% of GDP, putting us in the same boat as the Greeks, Italians and Spanish. There is no way, mathematically speaking, that our government will be able to reverse the trend. US Debt is worthless and everybody knows it (or they’re just not paying attention). From our April 7, 2011 report AAA Ratings or Not, US Bonds Are Toast:

    The debt ceiling debate in Congress is really nothing more than a distraction. The government will not shut down simply because just about everyone knows Congress will eventually raise the ceiling to absorb even more debt. A week or two delay is no big deal. Very few of our elected officials are prepared to take the necessary steps and the subsequent immediate pain that would follow an outright refusal to increase our debt borrowing capabilities.

    Whether US Treasury bonds are downgraded officially, or through back channels when our creditors decide to stop buying any new debt, makes absolutely no difference. The end result will be the same.

    Most of our readers have had a good idea for years that U.S. debt is toilet paper. S&P, as was the case when they were rating mortgage backed securities as Triple ‘A’, is behind the curve. While this is certainly a big story because it’s the first time in history that a major agency has taken the drastic step of downgrading US sovereign debt, before you panic we suggest contemplating an alternate viewpoint from Martin Armstrong’s August 1, 2011 one page brief  Will a Downgrade of USA from AAA Really Mean Anything?:

    The hype about Standard & Poor going to downgrade USA credit rating is just not important. Oh the talking heads will cry the sky is falling. They downgraded Japan in 2002 and nothing took place. Not even their rates increased. The same is likely in the USA and quite frankly, if S&P really thinks they have that much power, they should stop drinking their own bath water.

    When it comes to sovereign debt of the USA, we are talking about the US$ is the RESERVE currency. About two-thirds of central bank reserves globally is in dollars and the way those dollars are held is in government treasuries. Does anyone really think that if S&P downgrades the USA that its debt will not be sold?

    When you deal in REAL money, there is a problem. How do you store it? You can’t just put a billion on deposit at a bank…

    The ONLY way to park serious money is in treasuries. If you have hundreds of billions, now you have the added problem of MARKET SIZE. You can’t just go to any country. Their debt structure cannot provide the ability to park serious money…

    Don’t worry. Be happy! Until we revise the world monetary system and the dollar is no longer the RESERVE currency, sorry boys, but you are spinning scenarios that scare people, sound good as talking points, but are just gibberish in the real world of serious money…

    S&P’s actions are certainly a major indicator, and they may have far reaching market effects, but until those countries and large financial conglomerates that invest in U.S. pull the plug the can will continue to be kicked down the road.

    There is, of course, a breaking point, and we believe we are well on our way to that rendezvous. China, Russia and a host of other nations are aligning to eliminate the US dollar as the sole reserve currency of the world. One morning – perhaps it’ll be Monday, because we really have no idea what is happening behind the scenes – we’ll wake up and the US dollar will be in complete free fall. Actions of ratings agencies mean nothing unless the global markets react – that’s what we should be watching for.

    The following video depicts one such scenario. We’ll note for our readers that this is just one of many scenarios that can play out, and the time lines involved are unpredictable. Whether it takes 12 hours, two weeks, or longer, it will nonetheless be sudden and very painful.

    The First 12 Hours of a US Dollar Collapse:

    These will be times that try our souls, our minds, perhaps even our existence. Gerald Celente warned in 2009:

    …I think for a lot of people it’s going to be – it’s going to feel very hard, harder than anything they’ve experienced in their lifetime now, for some time to come.The trend is clear – and S&P’s downgrade simply confirms it (or we’re being set up for the grand calculated scam of a future ratings upgrade to assure us that things are getting better).

    We urge our readers to remain vigilant and to continue preparing. We are entering a period of great turbulence, and it’s better to be prepared years in advance than to be a day late.

    Recommended Reading:

    Emergency Preparedness Article Archive

    52 Weeks to Preparedness Newsletter Series

    What is money when the system collapses?

    What to Expect When the System Collapses


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    Gold has been the right asset with which to save your funds in this millennium that began 23 years ago.

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      1. As Borat would say, “Waa waa wee waa!”

        This is a huge deal and not for the obvious reasons. Everyone on this site, and others like it already knew that US debt was worthless. The problem I see is when the masses start waking up to that then runs on PM’s will be felt and I don’t have enough gold and silver yet!

        The scariest thing of all is that everything I’ve been reading since I “woke up” has been coming true in slow motion. Where do you go though? Will it be a slow burn or sudden crash? If it does crash, world markets will be hurt – from Europe to Asia to South America. I suppose a nice little bugout bunker in the sticks would be alright but then you’ve got those pesky marauders to worry about without a tight-knit cadre of peers nearby. Is it all lose-lose?!

        • You’re going to be fine…you’re miles ahead of the masses. Just keep your cool and aware of what’s happening in your local area. Forget the rest of the world; it’s an illusion. In regards to PM’s. If you don’t have it or enough of it, just keep the focus on keeping your immune system strong. That’s all that matters. Whatever you need to do to strengthen that system. Otherwise, you won’t be good for anything.

          • A humble bow for your wise words.

            Speaking of the body’s health, check out the web-site attached to this reply.

          • not entitlements ENDLESS WARS end the empire and the wars . 50 percent of us tax dollars spent bombing other countries

        • “The scariest thing of all is that everything I’ve been reading since I “woke up” has been coming true in slow motion.”

          Yeah, me too so I invested in gun, ammo, water canisters, MRE’s and bought a house outright in 08. This will get bad but due to the guys I read and watched, I’m prepared, but still scared/very concerned.

          • In the end, the preps are about all you can do to really prepare. They are your insurance policy, and you hope you don’t have to use it. But if you do, you were wise enough to purchase your policy.

          • Here’s a simple break down. It went from “Hope and Change” to “Hoping for Change” to “Looking for change” to “Brother, can you spare a dime.”

        • Just keep prepping. There will certainly be a worldwide domino effect but it won’t be overnight. Stores are still open. Buy food, water, good clothing, guns and ammo (if you haven’t already)and medical supplies. You know the drill. The average American is blind to what is happening so a run on banks is not imminent but it’s coming. Get your money out on Monday and put enough aside to get by when the SHTF. Good luck!

          • Had enough: I totally agree. This country is completely trashed and zombie Americans don’t know squat, much less, understand bank runs. They are lazy, stupid, many on the dole, drugs, living on junk foods. Yet, on the other hand the elite folks are dysfunctional on lining up their “stuff”, otherwise their “final act” would have been completed circa l929 when unemployment was over 25%. Since the so called patriots are few in number and most are retirement age with one foot in the grave, I see a steady decline with scum politicians and the new “Super Congress” running the show, taking this country into the abyss of hell.

        • You need to have food, water, guns, ammo, and a source of heat for your house. Some people have wood stoves. We have kerosene cooking stoves and soon we’ll have kerosene heaters too. I think it’s really important to have more than one person who can use a gun. We plan to have one armed person awake at all times when it hits the fan. We also plan on using a toilet made with a toilet seat over a 5 gallon bucket lined with a garbage bag. You can use kitty litter to cover the smell.

          • Thanks for that little tip on the kitty litter! Will add that to the preps. Keep prepping & looking up folks.

            • Sawdust, wood chips (cedar gerbil beddind), or just plain dirt works better. After the bucket fills, dump it into you compost heap for the garden!

            • If it comes down to that for my family, we are going to enlist the help of the ‘black soldier fly’!

              Let me introduce you, they will eat your you-know-what and even eat meat scraps before they get a chance to stink! They convert this into 43% protein and fat larvae to feed to your chickens!

              Just screen in your outhouse to keep them in!

              Black soldier fly! Your day has come!

              (Back to regular programming.)

          • I made that kind of toilet for camping. It works great. Do buy good litter though, Tidy Cats Multiple cats works wonderful.

          • The gang of 100 will easily take out your armed guard while you are sitting on your kitty litter filled crap bucket. Your prep plans are as shitty as your crap bucket.

            • I guess you’ll hold it until you burst!

        • Two weeks ago, we made the decision to move from our city apartment to our BOL. There were a lot of little reason for the move, and we justified in by saying if things look better (or at least no worse) in a year, we will move back. We haven’t even rented the moving truck yet, and our decision to leave now is being confirmed in a spectacular manner. All I can say is things have taken a turn for the surreal. It’s one thing to talk about the “what-ifs” it’s quite another to watch them happen.

          In my opinion, there is going to be a period of consolidation which the MSM will spin into another “recovery” but I think we’ve hurtled off the cliff, we just have enough momentum that we aren’t heading downward just yet. Use the time that’s left to finish your prepping, I think some of the sleepers are going to start waking up which means supplies are going to start disappearing as the panic sets in.

          • Stay safe and good luck.

      2. Get with your neighbors and friends and start a community garden and rain water harvesting http://www.bereadytosurvive.com this is exactly what kept Cuba going when the Soviet Union collapsed. North Korea took another approach and gave way to much power back to the communist government. When SHTF people should already be used to sharing and caring for one another. Cuba thrived after the collapse and ate healthy foods and we can too if we stick together.

        • Don’t forget to pray!

        • Soviet Unions collapse? I’m pretty sure that it’s the blockade, still in place and enforced by the US for decades, that have forced Cubans to survive with gardens and rain harvest, not the collapse of the Soviet Union. If the US government were led by competent, moral and sane human beings instead of “corporate junkie slaves” then people in countries like Cuba could live freely rather than be “enslaved” by US backed corporate scum.
          Come to think of it ….. When the SHTF …. Cuba could be a great place to go live!!!!

          • Watch and Wait: Hey man! What are you waiting for? The sky is falling. Don’t let the door hit you in the ass on the way out of the country.

            And take laura M. with you. She’s been pissing, moaning, crying, and complaining for months. You people are losers. If you believe the Cubans are “living freely” you have been smoking too many underworld cigarettes.

            But hey! Don’t take my word for it, “GO!”.

            • Durango: You have been complaining for ages, along with others. You must be brain dead if you think the country is “ideal” with ideal leadership. Many on this post favor prepping it’s common sense. You need to educate yourself so you won’t be a zombie. Prepare your family to best of your ability, is my theme, so get a life Durango and educate yourself, there is lots on you tube, Alex Jones and Lew Rockwell, News with Views..that’s a start, so get busy.

            • Durango, if you weren’t smokin so much crack, or you were slightly more educated, you’d have read the post correctly. I was implying that Cubans WEREN’T living Freely. You dumb ass retard. You really are, thick as pigshit.
              I’m starting to wonder about you Durango? You seem to rant, rave and scream at everyone that doesn’t sound completely right wing. Are you one of those people who troll online sites because your trying to wind people up? Or are you being paid to do it?
              Don’t worry Laura M ….. losers like Durango make lots of noise and acting out all tough when there on line. Reality is, Durango probably looks like Denise Rader, the BTK killer. Unemployed? Maybe. A loner? Definately!! Mommy didn’t love him, and daddy was a drunk, kink a guy. I bet he’s a cross dresser!!!
              Waitin for your reply Denise ….. I mean Durango Kid!!!! Bet you can write “sumpin real hard corp n tough” looking forward to laughing at your dribble

            • Laura M: LOU Rockwall is a shill for the NWO which is why he promotes “Free Markets” and “Free Trade”; neither of which exists. They were a figment of Mises imagination.

              The last organized brainiacs who practiced free trade were the American Indians who let the Europeans establish “free trade zones” on their land populated by Europeans. The rest is history.

              Of course this kind of stupidity might have been expected from a people who had lived on this continent in a stone age culture for 14,000 years and had never invented the wheel or rudimentary metalurgy.

              Just saying …

            • Hey Laura M, Piggly Wiggly is having a sale on cat litter.Better stock up!

        • Are you kidding my friend? Have you been to Cuba? I send money to my family for food. Not for what you say is healthy food but just food period. When I go to Havana I see skinny people, not well fed. My relatives say they are hungry most of the day. Well no obesity in Cuba!

          I think you may be blinded by your socialist view point. But have a nice day.

          • That’s because America has a total blockage on Cuba, and has so for decades. Impossing Economic Sanctions on a country is another way of putting people under a State of siege. Starving them slowly and in this case, impoverishing Cubans for generations. What do you think when you hear Hillery Clinton say “impose economic sanctions” on this country or that? My first thought is ” Here we go, were going to starve woman and children to death because the US govt and their corporate flunkies have been pushed back from stealing another countries wealth or resources”
            Hell, two weeks ago they put sanctions in place against ICELAND for hunting a whale years ago!!! Really? That’s the reason? Or maybe it’s because the small nation of Iceland said no to corporate America and Europe.

            • The US embargo on Cuba has been completely ineffective in it’s stated goal of regime change. Cuba is poor because it is also a socialist utopia. Castro (both of them) still talk of the “revolution”. The “revolution”ended when he won.

              By Castro’s logic, the US government is still a “revolutionary” government.

              I suspect the banksters are pissed at Iceland for refusing their offer of indentured servitude.

            • Bend Dover ….. Don’t Americans still keep talking about THEIR Revolution. Considering Cuba’s Revolution was 50 years ago compared To Americas Revolution that finished 230 years ago? Hello pot …. This is Kettle calling …

          • Its OK Ricardo. Let all these morons move to Cuba.

        • What an excellent parallel. I’m going to go do some reading on that period of Cuban history. Thank you!

        • The area we are in, we don’t want to be friends with our neighbors, much less enemys. Just keeping our head down and working double time toward the retreat.

      3. I think we’re screwed.

        • As a nation, we’re screwed. As an individual, it’s up to you how much you can “soften” the burden. Work on the things you can control, which are your preps. This gives you the best chance to deal with the chaos that’s coming—-and it IS coming.

        • Not screwed at all. Those with land, the people to defend it, and the resources to prosper from it will consume from the idiot elite a lot of wealth. They will come out on top so the 200 year cycle can start over.

      4. Panic? Why? This was long over due. Had it not been down graded then we definitely would have reason to be very concerned. Now, the system that we all knew was corrupt, is being exposed as it truly is. We should all rejoice! Through this process of exposing the massive corruption, the light will show on all those supporting the corruption. They won’t be able to hide and will be automatically ferreted out.

        It’s one of many “wake up” calls to snap the masses out of denial. This is good, very good. Yes, a few my parish along the way, but those who have been preparing will have a better chance of transitioning to the other side.

        What would you rather experience. Hundreds of little earthquakes (that reduce the internal pressures building up) or one Big One?

        • european american- i could not have said it better…i have been prepping for a long long time now and just for what is happening in this day and age…and somehow, with this downgrade, i feel “relief”. not because things are fixing to be hard, but because once the bad things happen the surviving it all could in fact be easier than people think..(if they think.)

          • Exactly—let’s get this party started…’REBUT’ button, anyone??

            • Sorry–now you know how upset I really am??
              ‘RESET’ button anyone??

            • We’re just going to go back to the ’50s !!! yee-ha! This could be a great thing but there’s still the problem of the government and their banking whores. How we gonna feed them and what?

          • Things could get really tough, but for those who make it to the other side, things will probably end up being better.

        • Yeah i knew it was long over due
          and at least the corruptness is exposed and its kind of like starting a new.

          • Panic is NEVER a good game plan.

        • Does it strike anybody as odd that the so-called credit rating agencies that triple AAA those toxic Mortgage backed securities, Credit Default swaps,etc. now downgrade U.S.?

          I smell a rat!

          • You mean like then they’ll raise it back up to AAA when the time is ‘right’ and say that we’re back on track? I thought about that but I really don’t know. Probably not?? Seems pretty risky. Then again, Obomba got his big declaration of victory with the staged OBL thing… I guess we’ll just have to stay tuned!

      5. US loses AAA crdit rating. Interest rates will rise (about .7%) as always they do when credit rating goes down, thus risk goes up… I read this will cost us 100billionDollars $100,000,000,000 per year in extra interest per year.

        It may sounds conspiracy, but this just looks like step in the plan to ruin the USA… One of the early steps was transfer US jobs out of country, sending way too many manufacturing jobs to China…. as the buttholes in Washington spent spent spent…. as we sent more money to China to pay them to manufacure things we bought (and used to make ourselves)… then we snde more jobs and more money…. We gave China the money they use to buy our bonds… as we kept spending like idiots on costly multi wars…… and now ….as they wanted we our perfect credit rating…. NEXT STEP… Dollar will no longer be world currency… we are so fkd…. and we got fkd SO FAST….

        This has all occured since 1995. Before 1995 things were fine. We manufactured our own stuff, for fine prices, for 80 years….. then they decided to send it all to China? Why would anyone do that?

        They ruined the United States on purpose. It was a plan…they wrecked us…. and now we are fkd. It wasnt either party… no Dems or Reps…. it was both…

        China runs China like a company….
        While we allowed them to run the USA like a unpaid rock band spending money partying while bringing in no cash(not enough cash to suypport our habits) We lock more people in prison than any country…DO YOU KNOW HOW MUCH THAT COSTS???…and as the economy has gotten worse more pople tur nt to crime to make money…

        THIS WAS A PLAN..IT IS EASY TO SEE. And it is all of our faults…. we allowed this to happen.

        The rich wont be hurt, but the other 98% of us are fkd.

        In retrospect whne they allowed gambling and the lottery nation wide, it was a sign of BS to come. These things give people fals hope…aloowing them to think they dont have to work hard….. and now we are fkd.

        Beware preppers… they read our sites… they are planning on fkg us too… they know we are getting ready, and they will counter that… they have curve balls you wont see coming…. keep your head down… and ammo dry.

        • very nicely put. I think you have it pegged pretty well. But On your point of the government knowing about us preppers, I don’t really worry about them messing with us so much. I think they will be tied up with the other 98% of the population to care. And you are right about your other point. They will screw everyone, any time they get a chance, especially preppers, who will be called domestic extremists, for their foresight to save up supplies. We can’t have that, can we.?

        • It’s not a conspiracy. It is simply about profits. It is easier to increase profits by using overseas labour and capital pools. It simply means that rather than building manufacturing capacity in the US it is easier to tap into overseas location and also import cheap Indians to do the work of Americans for half the rate.

          Basically, the US middle and working classes have been sacrificed for all those extra profits. Additionally, the proponents of this strategy have managed to bring the labour from India and China into a globalized market that will run up against the planets finite resources.

          • Nexus789: You are correct, but is was a conspiracy by GHW Bush leading the globalists gangster banksters into a conspiracy with China, by bribing them to make them capitalists.

            And why not? with the debacle of the “Cultural Reveolution” over, China in starving and in ruins, the carrot of becoming millionaires dangled in front of the faces of the CCP, the decision to become capitalists was a no-brainer. Then he conspired with Mexico for the NAU.

            These conspiracies are the genesis of the events that have overwhelmed US from the top down.

            Granny,these have not been free market forces acting randomly but inconcert with the “invisble hand” of capitalism. The hand moving the markets, the American means of production, American jobs, and American wealth offshore, is the invisible hand of corporate fascists who have manipulated money, markets, and power to create even more wealth for themselves by stripping it from the American economy, worker, taxpayer, and family.

            All of this is by DESIGN, Granny, American companies were not run out of the US by the destruction of the dollar. That idea is false. It is only a symptom. Not the cause.

            The Great Conspiracy is the cause.

            • Thank you for your post, Durango Kidd.

            • You forgot Nixon. He was the first to go to China. They sent Nixon because there’s no way they could call ol’ Tricky Dick a “communist” like they would any Democrat that was sent.

              This has been going on a lot longer than 30 years.

        • 60% of Chinese companies are foreign owned. Americans, Taiwanese, Koreans, etc. The American companies were run out of the US by the destruction of the dollar. The dollar was abused by the Globalists to finance their agenda. And we got stuck with the bill.

          • Our corporations began seeking overseas manufacturing facilities long before George H.W. Bush. They left for a variety of reasons: 1. corporate taxes too high in U.S.A (2nd highest in world); 2. unions (instead of owners)dominating hiring/firing and workplace rules; 3. unions demanding outlandish salaries and healthcare/pension benefits or else threatening to go “On Strike”; 4. frivolous lawsuits against deep pocket corporations, which delivered the American judicial system into the hands of corrupt lawyers and their leach clients trying to get something for nothing; 5. and yes, profits! Humans actually enjoy making money — remember in the old America, making a profit was actually a good thing. Now it’s a dirty word.
            The American people need to look themselves in the mirror when they try to figure out why our jobs left, and will never return. The American people have been voting for politicians that promised to take money from someone else (the “millionaires and billionaires”) and borrowing from our children so that they could have a free lunch and not pay any taxes. Voting for a living, instead of working for a living is what has destroyed this country.

            Until the America people realize that no one owes you a living or a free government benefit and we return to our entrepreneurial and pro-business roots, we will be doomed to failure and economic collapse. Selfish living (and voting) and socialism have destroyed us.

            • T: That is the thinking that the NWO wants you to have. That is the propaganda that the Lame Stream Media produces.

              Yes, some factories located offshore prior to 1980 to be closer to their resources or to develop resources in situ elsewhere. But the EXODUS was MANUFACTURED by GHW Bush and the gangster banksters.

              Unions? They just wanted equitable compensation. I guess the NBA, NFL, and other professional player unions are a scourge against the game? Can you imagine how much money the owners would make if the players didn’t get a reasonable share?

              With respect to manufacturing in the US, we see managers making thousands of times the wages of their employes, even when their performance does not justify the compensation. Historically the ratio was around 40 or 50 times the average worker salary.

              Today the managers are not only exploiting the workers, but they are raping the stockholders and stealing their equity with overlapping boards that give them a license to steal with respect to their salaries, bonuses, and stock options at public companies. Institutional corruption.

              And corporate taxes that are too high? You make me laugh. Really. That rate applies in name only. The reality is much, much lower.

              The problem with Americans is NOT that they vote too much, but vote too little. That is changing. America is awake. Americans are aware and we are going to vote and elect Patriots to office, not globalists or dual citizens.

              We are going to put the gangster banksters on trial and give them the punishment reserved for traitors.

            • DK, I agree with you about unions in the private sector but government thugs like SEIU are a problem.

              If the private union demanded compensation that was totally out of line the marketplace would provide the correction as the company would no longer be able to compete. Unfortunately the marketplace does not exist for government sevices. We buy them whether we want them or not, whether they are a value or not. There must be an ultimate correction device that is slightly less drastic than government shut downs.

            • Missed this one:

              “And corporate taxes that are too high? You make me laugh. Really. That rate applies in name only. The reality is much, much lower”

              Actually corporate taxes ARE too high. It was 38% when I had a C corp. Add to that 9% for the state and 47% of profit is gone before the shareholder is paid. Also thugs from the EEOC, franchise tax board, OSHA, EPA, Cal-OSHA and a myriad of other agencies destroy opportunity. The ADA has really hurt many people.

              Now granted General Electric and companies like that have the ability to buy politicians to write tax code that allows them to avoid it all. That does not apply to the little guy running a 5 to 10 million / year company.

              You see, I would rather see Jamaal have the opportunity to work as a fitter / welder for CBI (Chicago Bridge and Iron) than to sit and collect a welfare check. A Large CBI facility also provides many other opportunities like cafes and machine shops.

              S corporations are taxed at individual rates and those are too damned high also.

              We should only have the federal government we could afford with maybe a 1.5 or 2% tariff on all imported goods.

            • Plain Old American, not to get into your convo with T and DK but I am having confusion on a few of your statements about corp tax rates.

              you say you had a corp, then you know there is no little guy who runs it, even if it is YOUR corp.. when you incorporate your biz you then become the CEO or what ever you designate yourself as and are not entitled to the profits of the corp, you are ONLY allowed what YOU decide the corp will be paying YOU as SALARY.. sorry, I am not understanding what you are saying.

              I do agree that OSHA and all the rest are drains on biz but it is also deductible for the corp… corp tax rates are lower now than ever before..
              I am with you on the import tax and tariffs, that is how this country started and what made it great…

            • To: Black Sheep,

              “then you know there is no little guy who runs it”

              Actually that is not true. If you are speaking of large, publicly traded corporations, yes, there is no little guy.

              Privately held corporations can consist of just one person. The company I started by myself eventually had a grand total of 5 shareholders and averaged around 11 employees including myself.

              When I first started I incorporated as a “C” corporation due to my ignorance and some flawed advice. I should have incorporated as an “S” corp. For the time we were a “C” corp we had to pay 38% to fed and 9% to state before any dividends could be paid to shareholders. We did pay ourselves a bit better than market compensation to make up for the difference since wages came out before the IBIT.

              I did not get rich but I had fun, made a fair living and learned a whole lot more than those drunken clowns in DC will ever know.

            • I always get a kick out of people who have zero experience running a business telling everyone else what running a business entails and how it’s done.

              I also very much enjoy parsing the statements of those who have awakened from the two party dichotomy for language to betray which side of that spectrum they fell on before they changed.

              Marxist language like “equitable compensation,” “exploiting the workers” and the lamentations of all the undeserved money the owners of sports franchises would make by screwing those who are adept at running with a ball out of their “reasonable share” betrays Durango Kidd.

        • Our interest payment alone this year will be north of $00 Billion dollars…., and the government just wants to keep spending!

          • “400 Billion|

          • Jethro: Did you read the part about how they are: “not only exploiting the workers, but they are raping the stockholders and stealing their equity” .. ?

            Its institutional corruption Jethro.

            Exploitation of the workers is only one side of it. That’s why they encouraged 30 million illegals into the US. To take American jobs and surpress American wages. ALL part of a scheme to destroy America and enrich themselves.

            Make no mistake. I am a capitalist and I own the means of production. The best kind of production, actually. But I understand that American workers, families, taxpayers, and investors are being cheated and exploited by the NWO gangster banksters.

            The more free trade, open markets, and inflation that the gangster bankster foist upon America, the richer I get. Does that sound like a socialist or communist to you?

            As for the Pro Sports owners I have no problem with them making a profit and never mentioned or implied that they made “undeserved money”, but the reality is that the government has given the pro sports owners a monoply, so there is nothing subversive about the players having collective barginning rights and obtaining their reasonable share.

            If the players aren’t worth the money the owners won’t pay them the enormous salaries that they do. Whats wrong with negotiating your worth to the organization?

        • And I read this ‘gubermint’ of Ivy league geniuses spends 2 million more each minute than it takes in.
          ‘Unsustainable’ –pun intended–comes to mind.

        • It was a plan. You can never implement a one world order with America standing strong. It has to be on it’s knees or worse. They have to make the pain sooooooo bad that we are willing to take whatever tainted tylenol they are handing out. And that tylenol might be in the form of a new currency, a new world government, or any other host of stranger than fiction scenerios. Some people outside this site thinks every will rebound. Thinks it will be ugly, and then come back like it did after the crash of 87. This is so much bigger and not even close to the same animal. This was by design. Campaign promises are being fullfilled alright, just not the ones made to us. And I know they watch. And listen. AT some point it might be a good idea to drop off the cyber radar. Haven’t made that call yet, but I think it’s coming.

        • Hey that guy,
          You are spot on apart from when the problem started…It was when Nixon withdrew the gold standard in 1971. By removing the spending controls which were locked into the amount of gold in the Fed Reserve, it allowed the Fed to print money..
          This is no reason to panic. It has to occur. Make sure all debt is expunged ( Reduced ) and the main thing is to learn to live within your budget….That should apply to all individuals as well as all politicians.
          This should be seen positively and a great opportunity to buy bargains all round. Real estate, items marked down, and shares in solid companies with solid management.
          Unfortunately the jobs are gone due to the trades union being too powerful and outpricing their own workers. Those leaders should be run out of town and sent to China, Vietnam and India where they would learn the Law of Supply and Demand.
          The politicians ( Both Reps and Dems ) should stop trying to win votes and do what the voters need them to do and that is run the country properly, stop interfering in other countrys’ business. Raise the retirement age to 70 ( We are all living longer) and cut parliamentary employees by 75%…Good leaders could still run the country well enough.
          Finally. There is a lot of unnessary hype and panic in these replies…Rather spend the energy finding out facts and then you won’t have to panic…..
          You could do worse…Imagine living in Somalia, Syria, Egypt, Libya, Pakistan….You don’t know how good you have it….Take a little more time researching..;-)

      6. They should have downgraded it more. The Globalist Empire must die if we want the Republic to live!

        • Granny: The Republic will live, that is the destiny of America as appointed by God, and shown to Washington during the darkest hours of the American Revolution. You can read it here:


          The way to destroy the globalist empire is to elect Patriots to Congress, to kill the beast where it lives.

          We do not have to live in a police state, or accept the rape of the American economy by the gangster bangsters. WE have the power to manifest OUR will to make America great again and responsive to her people.

          Engage your government or be enslaved by it, everyone, its just that simple.

          • Durango: if you think the republic is destined
            to live, that God guarantees it etc. in the first sentence, why are you wasting your time with this web site and your postings, instead of campaigning for what ever patriots you want to run for congress?(if there is any patriots left in politics) You’re the one whining about being enslaved.. and you constantly contradict yourself; then saying “live in a police state, gangster bankers,” etc. You talk out of both sides of your mouth. By the way God doesn’t guarantee any nation, all thru history, anything. Many cities/nations were cursed and destroyed if you know anything about Bible history.

            • Good call Laura M. I disagree about Durango talking out both sides of his mouth though. Out his arse maybe? And as for God …. Your right, he doesn’t guarantee anyone.
              I think the “God showing George Washington the future” story is a lovely hoax, brought about by someone wanting to scare sheeple into submission. Its like the Snow White or Sleeping Beauty story. Lovely stories about good and bad, but none the less ….. Just stories.

            • Laura M: What makes you think I am not campaigning for Patriots? Or, for that matter, making financial contributions to them?

              Make no mistake I am involved. And although I know God does not need MY participation to implement his will in the earth, WE all need to do our part, with the light that God gives US, to see that light.

              No, I am not complaining about being enslaved. I have lots and lots and lots of freedom. I got mine and the freedom that comes with it. Now I want all Americans to get their fair share. Americans are not competing on a level playing field. That is why WE have 45 million Americans on food stamps.

              I am and have always been consistant(some would say dull).

              I am encouraging those here who see my posts to get involved, since OUR form of government requires the participation of the masses for the will of the people to be reflected in OUR government, because WE are the government.

              The masses have not been participating in their government. That is why the masses are dissatisfied with the results. They have let “george’ do it. Well, George screwed everything up.

              The masses need to be informed about what is happening to them because, even like Rick Blaine, (who is coming around) and Donald Trump, the masses believe that DC is incompetent.

              They believe DC is incompetent because they suffer under the illusion that elected Administration officials are working for US: because, well, because elected officials are suppose too! Obviously when the Bush admin allowed 42,400 factories to be shipped offshore, he wasn’t working for US. This is one way to inform the masses as 5 to 10K people a day view this website.

              Many think that “government” is the administration in power. No, WE are the government and any administration in power is there to serve US. When that understanding sinks again into the conciousness of all Americans, public employees will again be public servants.

              WE can make it so.

              That hasn’t always been the case in the recent past because too many sheeple are NOT participating. They are frustrated, discouraged, disheartened, and disappointed in the direction of their government; and the propaganda pushed by people like you and other naysayers here who have neither the stomach or the courage to engage must be, will be, challenged. If only by me.

              More than that, the LSM has been very effective at hiding the true facts from the American people, whether it is 911, free trade, Nafta, illegal immigration, or the role of the gangster banksters in OUR political process and economy.

              WE have the power to change the playing field and level that playing field so that the individual values that WE cherish are once again the law of the land.

              WE have the power to engage our government. If WE do not engage OUR government it WILL enslave US. That is the nature of government. That is the intent of any government. It is a law of the universe.

              There will always be people who want to dominate, direct, and control others to serve their greed, appetites, and desire. Its part of the human psyche. Some people have evolved past that selfishness; many haven’t. Unfortunately these are the character traits of the globalists and dual citizens who control OUR government and economy.

              Death to traitors! 🙂

          • We have the knowledge and have seen the results of self government when the people avoid their responsibility and hand over the governance to the politicians. We know what happens when we entrust our children’s education to the state. We can see the results of fiat currency and fractional reserve banking. We have allowed, no demanded, the government protect us from workplace risks and raw milk.

            Well it is obvious that we did not act soon enough or with enough vigor to prevent the coming events.

            I only hope that a more thoughtful, mature and reasoned electorate rises from ashes to rebuild this monument to individual liberty.

            Welcome to democracy sucks, 101. Our first lesson is on the fact that more than half of the people cannot be supported by less than half of the people.

      7. Why panic? Is your name Chicken Little? No, it’s not. And nor is the sky falling. The mere fact that so many people come to read, browse and sometimes comment on this site and many other sites like it on the net, should be a pretty good indication that many people are at the very least gearing up emotionally, if not physically for all this crap that bankers, politicians and morons are currently shoveling onto us.
        If the financial world collapses …. Well then, I say, refuse to pay credit cards, mortgages or any other payment owed to the corrupt system. If everyone tells the system to go to hell, then what are they going to do? Millions and billions of people around the world flipping off the “criminal system”. Excellent !!!
        They’ll soon be forcing War upon us, as a final solution to maintaining THEIR control over us, the rest of the human race. Wether it be Civil War or Revolution in the US, or bogus attacks in the Middle East or Africa.

        • I agree with that refusal to pay across the board. For many, however, it probably won’t be a choice but rather just a fact of life. You just can’t get blood from turnips.

          • Blood from turnips!!!! hahah, nice, never heard that before. LMAO

        • Effin’ A right! the only debt that I have is on my property. The only “income” I recieve is from my Military Retirement Pension. When Uncle Sam stops paying me, I’ll stop paying the bank (which he owns, anyway).

      8. OK, I’ll play “CNBC Cheerleader” for a minute…

        First, for a very long time now, we have been past the point where is took anything more than basic common sense to know that the U.S. can not possibly pay off is debt and meet all of its obligations. We probably past that point like 10 years ago…if not more. So, an argument can be made that the “market” has really been pricing in a serious downgrade for quite some time. So, there is a CHANCE that this downgrade, and any future downgrade, doesn’t affect things all that much.

        Second, everything is relative. Most/many people would agree that as things currently stand, Europe, and maybe Japan, is/are in worse “financial” shape than the U.S. This probably at least one of the reasons why the Fed has been able to keep interest rates here so low for as long as they have. So, there is a CHANCE that there is more forest for the fire to burn through before the bond vigilantes make their way over here. By the way, this is one of the reasons I am still expecting a pretty significant bounce in the dollar…at least in the short term (before all fiat currencies eventually fail because the world’s central banks are run by jackasses).

        Third, despite the idiocy in D.C., we still have a pretty damn stable political system/government…and our populace has kept its cool pretty well…thus far. Things in other places, like Europe, seem to be a little closer to the “brink”…for now.

        So, an argument can be made that perhaps the U.S. has some more time to get it’s $#!^ together…

        (CNBC Cheerleader mode off)

        Despite what I said above, yeah…this is probably not a good sign. At the very least, it takes us one step closer to LWOM (Live Within Our Means) Day.

        …and that is really the bottom line – at SOME POINT, we WILL live within our means. No matter what, it IS coming – it’s just a matter of time.

        At the most…

        Our financial and political systems collapse over the weekend, and I spend most of Monday teaching much/most of my family how to shoot and maintain various firearms.

        • Hit a home run, RB. Our creditors will help us adjust our gubmint spending levels.

          I am pessimistic concerning our present governmental structure, but optimistic when it comes to Americans as a whole. We are an innovative people.

          I think it was Churchill who said, “Americans can always be counted on to do the right thing, after they have exhausted all other options”.

      9. Well, well, well. Is anybody surprised? This is going to be interesting. Another thing I find interesting, where’s Obama? Oh yea the bitch has conveniently ducked off to Camp David for a couple of weeks. Niiiice. Don’t think for a second he didn’t know this was coming. As a matter of fact, where’s everybody else? Oh yea their off on vacation for a couple of months. Their going to let this son of a bitch blow up and be well hidden when TSHTF. Gutless wonders!!

        • Think it the other way. They waited til they all left town to release it. When standing order and signed order are the rule of the day. Just saying.

          I always think if I am the crazy one. My daughter does but accepts me as I am. She still weld her Glock 21 as an angel when needed. I wish the world was a nice place. I keep thinking I am wrong about the upcoming storm. (I am not a Mad Max believer, I call myself a reset believer.) Look at the east coast, Wisconsin, Syria, East Africa and Maine.
          How the hell are we keeping it together.
          Thanks for the venting. And yes I am prepared. And feel right with my supplies and equipment. My mindset is right and I know I can make the hard decisions for my immediate families well being.

      10. This is the writing on the wall that so many have been whispering. Prep now. Prep quick. The time is short and we must come together to survive. Do not let them take our country from us.

      11. You are correct Hammerun. The crackhead in chief knew this downgrade was coming so decided to take his fugly wife and ride out the storm at Camp David. When things really get bad (we’re not even close) in this country he’ll do the same thing all over again. This excrement that people refer to as president could care less.

        • But what are you really trying to say? (snicker, snicker) I feel the same way you do. But just remember, Obummer is just an insignificant puppet. Just the name on the doorplate. If he doesn’t do what he’s told, they’ll replace him with another name on the doorplate. just like they did JFK.

          • Obama should not be compared to JFK. Robert Mugabe or Idi Amin, yes. JFK, no.

      12. They will keep the economy propped up until next election. After that, all bets are off.

        • I think they’re going to have their hands full, keeping the economy propped up. I think we are past the ability to do that. The president is out of bullets, except to print money, and that’s what they willdo. We will see if that will work. But i think that rabbit is getting pretty tired of being pulled out of that hat.

        • They will at least try. The “stimulus” was supposed to pump up things just in time for November 2010. Didn’t quite work out that way.

          • I was stimulated!

      13. This is not the time to panic. A slow crash has been engineered to gain control with the least amount of damage to the infrastructure. Look for staged riots and martial law and curfews in some cities, look for televised announcements to “not panic” and blame to be passed around from left to right. There is a reason why the world has been geared toward mutually assured economic destruction.

        • Nothing will cause desperate crowds to rush to the stores faster than the “Don’t Panic” announcement.

      14. The whole of this weekend will be spent by the Admin and it’s talking heads trying to shift the blame and minimize peoples “perceptions” of what a downgrade could mean. S&P will be evicerated; the Tea Party will be blamed for being entrangigant and thereby causing this. They will try to spin this as anyones fault except their own. This was not caused by BHO, Reid and Pa-Lousy increasing our debt by 3-4 trillion in only two years; no, this was caused by [ insert name ]. It will be very interesting to see what immediate fallout this brings.. will stocks plunge and metals soar on Monday ? Will the dollar crash or possibly head higher as big money moves from Treasuries to cash ? Who knows ? But we will see. Just watch though; the spin they will try and put on this will make you dizzy. Keep doing what we’ve all been doing and don’t make sudden changes.. decisions made out of fear are usually wrong decisions.

      15. I believe their ultimate aim is to collapse the world economy so that they can form the one-world government prophesied in Revelation.

        • I’ve been rejecting claims of the “new world order” thing for a long time now.

          I’m not so sure now…maybe this is “their” goal…

          I mean at this point it really seems like there are only two possibilities…

          Either “they” really are trying to cause some sort of collapse…or the leadership of both the U.S. and Europe is so full om imbeciles that the word “incompetence” just doesn’t do them justice.

          • Rick: Lawyers are not incompetent. Millionaire businessmen and women are not incompetent. Individuals with college degrees are not, in the main, incompetent. No one could be this incompetent with the level of education and experience that they have.

            They are highly educated. They are highly competent. They know EXACTLY what they are doing and what they are doing to US.

            They are motivated by a crackhead, gekko lust for money and power that is insatiable. Inherently, they are selfish to the point of being evil.

            • Yeah, maybe you’re right.

              Look at the fundamental argument that was being made by most of Congress, by those on BOTH sides of the aisle: We HAVE to RAISE the debt ceiling to ENSURE the full faith and credit of the U.S./protect our credit rating.

              Granted, I’m no expert in finances or anything, but I can not possibly understand how that argument makes any %(@*ing any sense at all.

              If an entity (e.g., person, business, etc.) is having trouble paying its bills, the LAST thing it should do to protect its credit worthiness and/or improve its situation in general is to go into more debt.

              That being said, I’ve heard exactly that claim made by many, many people over the last few weeks…

              …and if you disagree, you are either insane or an “extremist.”

              …which is just another reason why I’m now convinced I live in The Matrix.

            • How ironic is this statement coming from you DicKidd.

              Having a degree does not intelligence make. Lawyers and individuals with college degrees are some of the most incompetent people in the world, everyone in congress has degrees and most are lawyers, enough said. The only thing they are brilliant at is fooling people like you into thinking they are.

              And no I am not jealous of “educated” people, I have a BS degree(pun intended) from a Big Ten School, my wife 3, practically everyone in our community is “educated” yet I find them to be some of the dumbest (common sense wise) and incompetent (at a great many things), people I have ever met.

              I have worked for the all 3 of the Big Three both corporate arenas and factories (and many other big corporations), and I am in awe that they even exist with all the entrenched incompetence and ignorance that exists in those environments. The % of the white collar boys that are lazy, parasitic, etc, is the same as the union guys. It only takes a few weeks of working at one of these companies to realize why our vehicles cost so much.

              The majority (maybe 70%) of people who are moderately to highly “successful” get that way from either making their career their life at the expense of their families, ass kissing their way to the top, riding the coattails of the truly brilliant and hard workers or off the efforts of others.

              But lets get back to you DK… according to you, you are on the fast track to become a multi-millionaire, thus you to have a crackhead gekko lust for money no?

              Or are you a socialist based on some of your posts above?

              You don’t know who you are because you are whatever it takes at the time to (try) to make yourself look intelligent or win an argument, hey, you sound like a lawyer, or better yet a politician!

              You are one of the sorriest role playing basement dwelling losers ever to troll websites to satisfy your low self esteem psychosis I have ever come across.

        • The elevation of revolution is the evolution of Revelations.

      16. I’ve read stuff about the NIA being operated by a guy who was part of a previous pump and dump scam….any of you know anything about that?

        • Yes, his name is Jonathan Lebed. He owns NIA basically. The SEC settled with him on a pump and dump scheme when he was very young. They profit off the fear from possible outcomes of the truth. In other words, they spit out the truth, tell you to subscribe to a free newsletter, then introduce you to penny stocks which they tell you to buy, they pump these stocks until the percentage gets about right to sell, then they sell, they make thousands, their subscribers who actually invest in those penny stocks, reap. Pump and dump. Peter Schiff calls them out. Go to my channel to watch http://www.youtube.com/user/187dAFeD?feature=mhee

      17. This has been the plan for years to bring down the American economy. Read up on the Cloward=Piven strategy. It is a plan designed to bankrupt America to bring about socialism and end capitalism. One of the main facets of their plan was to get as many people as possible on entitlement programs to bleed the government dry. ACORN is the brainchild of Cloward-Piven. Who did the beloved leader work for before entering politics? Connect the dots, Cloward-Piven=ACORN=Obama=bankrupt America. A good article on Cloward-Piven can be found in the archives of Americanthinker.com Nov. 23 09 is the date to look up. Article by James Simpson.

        • XO: You are quite correct.

      18. Snopes Exposed Again

        “…. In our Search for the truth…department, we find what I have suspected on many occasions, that Obama owed Kagan. I went to Snopes to check this out and they said it was false and there were no such dockets so I ‘Googled’ the Supreme Court, typed in ‘Obama-Kagan,’ and guess what? Yep you got it.

        Snopes lied…

        Everyone of those dockets are there. So here is what I wrote Snopes:

        Referencing the article about Elena Kagan and Barak Obama dockets:
        The information you have posted stating that there were no such cases as claimed and the examples you gave are blatantly false. I went directly to the Supreme Court’s website, typed in Obama Kagan and immediately came up with all of the dockets that the article made reference to. I have long suspected that you really slant things but this was really shocking. Thank You, I hope you will be much more truthful in the future…

        That being said, I’ll bet you didn’t know this…Kagan was representing Obama in all the petitions to prove his citizenship. Now she may help rule on them. Folks, this is really ugly. ‘Chicago Politics’ at its best; and the beat goes on and on and on…Once again the US Senate sold us out! Well, someone figured out why Obama nominated Elana Kagan for the Supreme Court….

        Pull up the Supreme Courts website, go to the docket and search for Obama. She was the Solicitor General for all the suits against him filed with the
        Supreme Court to show proof of natural born citizenship. He owed her big time. All of the requests were denied of course. They were never heard. It just keeps getting deeper and deeper, doesn’t it??
        Here are some websites of the Supreme Court Docket: You can look up some of these hearings and guess what? Elena Kagan is the attorney representing Obama!!! Check out these examples:


      19. I no worry about politics and whwt sopme call the collapse . I smoke me my ganja and everythign is allright .I no worry, kill, murder rape . I work a job makeing 8 bucks an hour pulling car parts of wrecked cars .But i grow my ganja and smoke me a little and it gets me through the day .Everyday you folks worry and freat and have fear and that is not the way to live .It’s these things in life that can be eliminated if one so chooses to opt out . Worry about money and money and more money and investments meanwhile everyday your growing older closer to death . Live your life the best you can enjoy it and enjoy what mother nature brings to you to cope with the daily life stresses .

        • Look brother, the way you live is not not for most of us. Why, most of have families that we would die for in an instant, and protect unto that death.

          Worrying sucks, no question, but responsibility makes that descision for us, it is NOT a choice to look after those who you care about. Real simple.

          Have puff for me eh?

          • “Have puff for me eh?”


      20. No coincidence that the announcement came out on a Friday to lessen the impact of the news before Monday. What happens next…
        . The other credit agencies will probably follow suit with downgrades
        .Rates will probably have to jump, they have been held low for so long now this will have an impact on WORLD markets
        .Now from here, economies slow AGAIN, stocks probably fall, real-estate which is already on life support circles the drain.
        .PM’s go up (this goes without saying)
        .Hedge funds and Pensions that relied on AAA status due to by-laws will have to fail? (unless they change the rules)

      21. Notice how Moody’s did not downgrade the U.S.?
        I wonder how much they were paid this time.
        At least S&P stepped up to the plate.

        You know these rating agencies don’t downgrade anything until everyone knows it’s junk.

        No surprise here! Keep prepping!

      22. No need to panic. Stack more gold and silver, along with lead and brass. Dump dollars. Approaching the endgame for US currency/economy/political system.

      23. The credit rating of the corporation is a corporate matter of interest only to corporate officers and those reliant on it.

        It will not affect those who do not use the corporations credit monopoly, and in the worst case will only collapse the monopoly to the benefit of the people.

        • I agree with this statement.
          If you are not reliant on “Them”..or playing along with their game, there should be little effect on you.
          the effects will come to the ones not able to function with out the corp telling them what to do or how to do it, or providing it for them.

          those types will be the ones to watch out for when it all goes down. They will either have one hell of an adjustment period, or be a threat to those around them.

          they all have an adgenda, use you

        • During the “Good Times” you work to pay off debt and not engage in the “easy money” scam. That will only make you reliant on “Them” – That’s the scam, and that’s where the World is today – in the arms of the banksters, and they will take everything from you because it’s not yours, they own it.

          I opted out long ago!

      24. The Sad Truth To Why Most People May Not Wake Up!
        Most people do not pay conscious attention to the things that affect them subconsciously. They do not usually know what to look for. However, when pointed to, these things can be recognized and understood The most effective way to protect yourself from subconscious manipulation is by being aware of how it works.

        “It is a sorry state of affairs when people’s thoughts are not their own and they don’t even know it! Psychological warfare and economic warfare are being waged against America. This explains what is happening to this nation.”




      25. Crisp $10 Bills in a #10 can
        Have it ready for when the
        SHT Fan
        Crisp $10 Bills in a #10 can
        Be ready for the day of doom
        Good advice from Mushroom

      26. Just another step towards the inevitable. The real question is, shouldn’t “we the people” be fixing this mess.

        If you are an American stop complaining. It gets us nowhere. It’s time to act.

        OsiXs (Revolution 2.0 – The Smart Revolution)

        • You’re right! ….but I’ve been talking to people about this happening since 2006 when I worked in housing construction and began to teach myself economics and although no one can refute my arguments they still act like I’m a kook. Maybe there is still time for some to get ready but I fear its too late for those who poopooed the idea of an economic collapse.

        • Your socialist / progressive “revolution” is what got us here. Why do you desire to enhance it?

      27. The stock market has been plummeting and I wonder if that’s because tptb let the cronies know what was coming in advance. In any event, as I posted elsewhere, I think the markets are going to plummet some more and we the citizens who are working our ever-lovin’ arse’s off (forced to support the breeders and the leeches) are going to see prices continue to climb for the basics of living. What a sorry state of affairs.

        • Interesting! but not surprising.
          It should have been called “Sheepbook”

          I don’t play that game – They’ll have to work hard to find me!

      28. the funny thing about all this is US treasuries are sold in US dollars which is worthless to begin with. it’s nothing more than a twist in a twiosted debt based currency game. That interest payment will be paid in dollars…not gold. since the currency is worthless than the whole system is worthless.

        • Rachel: Contrary to the propaganda of the separitists, communists, socialists, and “trend analysts” who want to sell you a subscription, the dollar is not worthless, but in great demand all around the world; by friend and foe alike.

          It is the world reserve currency and will remain so for a very long time. I do not say that out of patriotism.

          That is an economic fact. And there are MANY reasons why it will remain so. Not enough time or space here to explain.

          Even so, speculate in silver, invest in gold, hoard your lead, tuck those crisp $10 bills into #10 cans (until you have enough for silver or gold), and keep prepping.

          • The US has forced everyone to use the Greenback as the Reserve Currency of the world for decades. Even Russia and China have been forced to trade with each other using Greenbacks. Any country refusing to trade in US dollars gets wiped off the map or starved to death with American imposed sanctions. Women and children included.
            The US dollar is NOT in demand around the world Durango. It’s toxic!!! So please “make some time” and explain “your MANY reasons why it will remain so”
            Economic Fact? Are you really that stupid and ignorant Durango? Go back to trolling websites for the government you traitor!!

            • Watch and wait: The dollar is in demand around the world by friend and foe alike. it will remain the world reserve currency for quite some time because (1) there is no replacement for it and (2)there is NO mechanism in place to do so.

              (3)Then there is the most important reason: who would be the lender of last resort, willing to print $16 trillion dollars to prop up the rest of the world, if the world was using a global currency or a basket of currencies?

              Why would the gangster banksters replace a currency they control and replace it with one or a basket of currencies they do not control? Take your head our of your ASS and smell the greenback. Its here to stay.

              You must be a fucking foreigner spreading propaganda and trying to talk the dollar down, because Americans don’t use the word ARSE! The American dollar will be the global currency for many years to come.

              Fuck you!

      29. Monday will be interesting, that’s for sure.

      30. So does this affect mostly the government or private sector as well? I.E. credit cards and what not. I would hate to be someone with credit card debt if this does in fact hurt the credit card companies.

      31. For those who are thinking that because you don’t use credit that this won’t effect you; you might want to reconsider. Everything that you buy is somehow touched at some point by credit and if the carry rate goes up; that additional cost is added to the end product price. Additionally, since one likely fall out of this could well be a defacto currency devaluation; anything you buy will require more pretty paper. The impact on some may be so small as to be barley noticeable; or perhaps may be noticed but not associated with the down grade as a cause; but nonetheless, this will likely impact every person in the US as well as every person who does business with anyone in the US at least in some manner.

      32. Repeat after me

        #10 cans, crisp $10 bills
        #10 cans, crisp $10 bills

        Stick with the plan, the
        entire country will be on

        Lemmeeseenow, where was I?

        Oh, yea
        #10 cans, crisp $10 bills
        #10 cans, crisp $10 bills


        • OK. I will have to wait until Monday to sell my gold, silver and bullets and guns.

          #10 Cans
          $10 bills.

          Got it.

      33. Our family totally enjoyed the horror news this week. We cuddled up on the couch grabbed the popcorn and chips and we were totally enjoying the horror show unfold
        We had just finished watching the horror collapse of the markets in 2009 and we were hoping for the sequel.
        Watching the dow plunge
        over 500 was so excitingly scarey, we couldnt wait for the next scarey scene. And then the FAA Was so close to the equivelant horror we almost jumped out seats! Then the downgrade announcement! Wow this is going to be a much better sequel then the first horror show. We cant wait to see how it ends!

        • It is rather surreal, isn’t it.

        • Yes to most of the world the events unfolding week by week, day by day are incredible, from riots in sleepy London to riots in the turbulent Middle East, to the economic collapse of the world’s super powers, one may theorize that we are a simulated, computer generated, sims world in which the programming has been infected with a real nasty computer virus.

      34. stock market will tank on Monday

        • Dang…I have an LDS run set for Tuesday!
          Wonder if they’ll still take cash???

        • I let my broker talk me out of going liquid a couple of months ago. I might fall off the wagon after 25 years.

          • no offense; always follow YOUR gut.. it is your money. You were smart enough and frugal enough to save it; you are smart enough and frugal enough to invest it. Fire the broker; get a self directed acount.. etrade, ameritrade, whatever.

      35. Even if this is a downgrade that is so slow that it seems like ” a level of resistance” or “a new bottom” or “a plateau to grow from”, it will mean that the basis of the cost of money now has a new-higher floor.

        Banks don’t lend money unless there is a spread in their favor. This is a FACT. Banks will sit on money and find all applicants and projects “too risky” when they are not allowed to lend with sufficient margin that they believe covers the risks “known and unknown” as well as providing a return to shareholders after expenses.

        When the TBTF banks can borrow from the FRB at less than 1% and lend at 5%, it works when they are making a “safe” loan of 80% of the value of a house (with everything else blah-blah-blah). If TBTF banks can get money at 4%, then the new rate for a premium debt slave house loan is going to be 9%+, meaning that the selling price of the house must be reduced to keep the payment inside “guidelines” of 33% of gross income. Let’s not pretend that household income and number of employed folks will rise to meet the challenge of price inflation in consumables/food/fuels, but “doing without”, or looking like you have/could will become the new fashion. This is going to suck BIG TIME for self-absorbed younger BabyBoomers who believe that they have “equity” in their house and are of the belief that it is a piggy bank of value sitting there waiting to become cash, or if they must sell to accept employment somewhere else.

        The only people who “win” in an inflationary storm like the one coming are: Bankers, debt-free people with productive assets (including unmanufactured raw materials sitting on shelves ready to be made into useful paid-for products), holders of non-fiat money (precious metals). Young, trained, strong, healthy people can also do just fine if they can stay employed at pay above their expenses. Cutting expenses by “going off-grid” and getting away from municipal services that generate monthly bills seems like a good strategy. Local generation of heat and electricity with owned & CONCEALED resources (solar PV, wind/micro-hydro) and local fuel gathered at only labor cost (wood), water catchment and clandestine wells, septic systems to avoid municipal sewage charges, trash recycling/reduction, etc. are all good for reducing endless monthly expenses. Some municipalities REQUIRE a sewer hook-up, but they bill based on water consumption, so usage can be near-zero for a nominal bill if water is being generated without flowing through the meter. They will suspect theft if you go to ZERO, so use a tiny bit to keep the system going.

        Live well under your means. SAVE, just not in fiat-dollars. A 1000 gallon (92,000,000 BTU’s that never go stale) propane tank is a good means of “saving”, if you would normally expect to have a 200 gallon tank at a location. Summer 2011 propane price surveys show a huge variation of price from $1.84 gal to over $5 per gallon. Having 4+ years of fuel (at normal rate of consumption) owned & bought at a low price, and the adapters/skill to fill up 5 gallon barbeque tanks is more useful than depreciating FRN’s.

        Survival should sharpen the mind, especially when the prospect of NOT Surviving become real, even in the former-USA.


        • thank you for that great info,you made things a little clearer, i feel like im going in the right direction with my prep(debt free, large quantities of stored items like the propane, living well below my means,)

      36. Bloodyfellow: You got that “mind control” thing right!

        A simple down grade that really means nothing with interest rates where they are and roughly where they will remain; and the sheeple are spooked and in a panic!

        Right now, every sheeple is rushing to post their latest fear of “collapse” on their favorite website. It is mind boogling!

        The little bitty bounce in interest rates will not affect the vast, vast, vast majority of you here, I can promise you that.

        Go outside sheeple. The sun is shinning. Get some fresh air and smell the scent of pines. Its a glorious day!

        • Not here in TX…my thermometer reads 104 degrees in my backyard!

          Think I’ll put in a frivolous movie instead…get my mind off things. 🙂

        • Nah.. to damn hot. 98 degrees and 49% humidity in the shade.

          • Where are you at Sam?

            • south florida. forgot to hit the reply button..

          • Only 49%….it is about 80% here in GA

        • That is part of the problem, people like you think $100,000,000,000 is not a problem?

          The down grade will cost the US an uptick of .7 in interest rates, equal to 100 billion Dollars per year, and you say that means nothing?

          • MG: Bernanke has printed $18 trillion dollars in the past 2.5 years and you are concerned about a measley $100 billion dollars? LMAO!

            Send the ILLEGALS home and get them off welfare, food stamps, and housing subsidies, (not to mention the costs of their crimes) and WE can save 4300 billion EVERY year!

        • Anyone that is making a solid prognostication with specifics is either deluded, unaware of economics or smoking the good stuff.

          Here is my reasoning: It is not possible to know how many folks are awake and how many are still believing in republicanism to save us. It is not possible to know how many have been told about market manipulation, fiat currencies, fractional reserve banking and all of the true, but yet to occur, nightmare scenarios of chaos and strife. We do not know how many folks will hear the news of the downgrade and haave their “AH HA” moment. If the markets head south as the Tel Aviv market indicated then THAT might be an “AH HA” for millions.

          We don’t know how many will suddenly “get it” and we have no idea how they will react. We only know that there has been an event that has never occured before.

          Now, listen to mushroom: #10 can crisp $10 bills.

          (gold is $1700)

      37. It’s going to be interesting when the Asian markets open on Monday morning. It’ll be on Sunday about 3:00 pm or 4:00 pm Eastern time in the U.S. I expect gold to go through the roof. You can follow the gold price here:


        • Bill S said “I expect gold to go through the roof.” I concur. In fact, just ordered some Gold Maples this afternoon from APM*X…not wanting to give a free plug here… but anyway, locked in my shopping cart, had dinner, came back and the premium over spot jumped about $8.00 per coin… in a couple of hours! AND some of the 1 oz maples, assorted years, were then sold out. It’s still the weekend right? Something to think about. Might want to put your order in for a PM or two while price is frozen… just sayin’

          Keep stackin’ folks.

        • Gold at $1702 right now (12:34 am eastern)

      38. so flo

      39. keep your eyes open and powder dry

      40. More history. The helicopter crash in Afghanistan killing 31 Special Forces troops included the Seal 6 team that “killed” Osama and dumped his body at sea. Obama was not about to let any of these men disclose that whole capture/kill affair was a total farce so saw to it that the men involved will never talk. Mission accomplished. If you think the U.S. government won’t kill their own, think again.

        • CIA or Mafia. Neither are moral. Both kill their own. Both operate under the premise that the ends justify the means. The CIA just happens to have practically unlimited means.

        • The Media braking this story about Seal team 6 is bull shit! Why would they Hype up the fact that 31 Special Forces members were shot down in Afghanistan. This is not a story about some fucking football team it’s Seal Team 6 and you don’t confirm to some fucking raghead motherFu_ers that you just got our Big number 6 team!

          No pic of Osoma Bin Laden??? After ten years + man hunt form him. They blow the whistle on the on Seal Team 6 when they kill OBL??? Now team 6 gets taken out!

          FUCK THAT!!!! something is very, very, very wrong with this Picture! cause it’s bullshit!!!!!

          • Covert operations aren’t very covert anymore. Geez, they don’t even try. Very sad for the men killed and their families when I read that news. So unbelievable obvious.

      41. If the Dubai Futures, which were open on Saturday are any indication we could be in for a rough ride. Dubai was down 3.43% today.

        Now considering this is almost a nothing market imagine the DJIA losing that at the open Monday morning. By noon or maybe Tuesday Moody’s will follow the S&P.

        Now change the dates on the above trailer and watch it again.

        We are in for a hard ride folks, I pray I’m wrong.

        • DO you have a link for that ? Are metals trading there ?

          • Just google Brent Dubai Futures DBQ11.NYM I don’t know much about this exchange I was just looking for any open markets to give me an indication for tonight and Monday morning.. If these idiots had any intelligence they would not have let the S&P announce the down grade till 11:30am EST. Now the rest of the world gets to sell off first. The time of day may not seem like a big deal, but in this situation I think it is.

        • Over on ZH folks were talking about the jump in gold early today in India was over 2% in the open markets…and the world markets are closed! Go figure. Tomorrow, late afternoon, when the PM market opens in Asia, it will be a very telling time.

          If you cut a $100 bill in half, how much is a half worth?
          If you cut a 1 oz. gold bar in half, how much is the 1/2oz. worth?
          So which one is the REAL money? Something to think about.

          • crisp $10 bills in #10 cans……

            I like mushrooms.

      42. Now that everyone’s attention is focused on the economy, watch what the other hand is doing. Things are going to get interesting in more ways than one.

      43. im not saying the 2012 predictions are real or i believe that the end of the world as we no it will happen next dec. 21, 2012, but, there are alot of things going on that are leading up to something, what is that something?

        • Many Bible scholars believe America will not be a major player in end time events. Something has to happen to cause us to not be a superpower anymore. I don’t know if an economic crash is “it”, but is seems like that would really do it. All things are leading up to the Lord’s return for his people. Armageddon is used to describe the worst of things. What Armageddon really is is a battle at Armageddon between all the nations of the “world” and satan against Jesus. Guess who wins? Read the Bible (Revelation) to find out. I know I want to be on the winning team.

          • read it my fav part of the bible,and if you really read the things happening in this world right now GA Girl then you must know that it has begun! But I also have to beleive that My lord would want me to try and live. And he also so knows that I myself will not go down without a fight.For if i want to be around to see my lord come back to this world then I must first be alive.

            God bless all

        • I have read all the science behind 2012 and take some comfort in that. However, there is something to say for the mentality of the world. I do worry that some big event will be a self fulfilled prophecy because so many people expect “something”. Or, if something disasterous were to happen by say…design or manufactured crisis, the people would be expecting it. “Never waste a good crisis.”

        • I knew schiff was going to say that. The truth is S&P’s rating is bull shit anyway. 15 trillion in debt and that is on the low end and the US still gets a AA+ rating. B-U-L-L-S-H-I-T!!!!

          I think most public schools are on that BS grade scale system as well. 🙂

      44. my 16 year old just asked me how do we know that the Taliban “killed” the 32 Seals who “killed” OBL? Out of the mouths of babes….

      45. All by design: You take the superpower currencies of the world and devalue them to hell, putting them on equal value playing fields (the weaker banks, currencies, and nations will be allowed to fall but who needs them anyway), and then the prospect of using a world banking system and one world currency start to sound rational. Remember what Mayer Amsched Rothchild said, “Permit me to issue and control the money of the nation and I care not who makes its laws”. Create the cause with secret back door double dealings between nations and provide the solution, that’s the machiavellian way. The cornerstone of the NWO is global control of the banks.

      46. Conversation overheard in China after the downgrade:

        ” I told you we shouldn’t have bought more US bonds” said SumTingWong. ” Yes, your were right, we should have bought gold or silver ” replied YewFlungPoo. ” Well, what the heck are you going to do now ? ” asked SumTingWong ” I think I am going to go get drunk with SumYunGuy” Answered YewFlungPoo. ” Good Idea, can I come ? ” asked SumTingWong ” Sure, but only if you don’t invite TatFartTinks.. he talks too much” replied YewFlungPoo. “It’s a deal, but we’re going to get our butts kicked Monday” stated SumTingWong. ” I think you’re right” stated YewFlungPoo ” Maybe you should invite TatFartTinks after all” added YewFlungPoo. ” Why” asked SumTingWong ” We can always say it wasn’t us, He did it” replied YewFlungPoo ” Crap, you’re right, everyone thinks TatFartTinks is a piece of crap anyway ” answered SumTingWong.

      47. BS: Yes I have a corp. Every American should have a corp. Lots of tax advantages for a corp.

        I was talking about big business who do not pay the 35% corporate tax and most of them do not; even on mucho income.

        • I understood what you where saying in that string DK.. my questions where pointed at POA. 🙂

        • DK, in the collapse news posting, I replied about your ‘arbitage’ question, am I rite in there about what you where saying or did you see it I should say ??

          • BS: I am waiting for an answer from that financial genius aka Clark. Gotta run. Will check for his reply tomorrow and respond to you. Thanks.

      48. Obama’s dream of creating a nationwide ghetto in the U.S. is coming true with the help of traitorous republicans and democrats.

      49. POS: You are right about public unions. I was talking about private business where collective bargining is a legitimate function between worker and empployer.

        Public employee unions should not exist. Someone else a while back made a good analysis of the difference. Maybe it was you.

        • Might have been.

          I looked at the success of manufacturing in Germany and they pay very good wages and have strong unions.

          Where we truly have a job killing machine in America is the regulators. EEOC, EPA, OSHA and whomever is responsible for enforcing ADA rules.

          James Bovard wrote a book years ago titled “Lost Rights.” He provides lots of anecdotal evidence on how regulations have destroyed companies, farms, people and jobs. In one instance a company was sued by the fedgov because the racial makeup of the company was not the same as the racial make up of the local population, therefore the company must’ve been racist and they had to pay any person of color that had applied for a job but was never hired. That is insane.

          We have to create wealth. Wealth comes from natural resources and then adding value to them. It does not come from banksters or insurance companies.

      50. BS: I am done for the night. It Saturday night and 8pm. Gotta run to an “Intervention” for a globalists! 🙂

        • LOL, I hear ya, we need many of them done in this country. it could make for full time jobs 🙂

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        Plus, in order to clear out our inventory, we have a two-for-one special on ratings from H to L. And for a limited time only…all Y and Z ratings are free (just pay postage and handling)!!
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        *note: all government credit ratings must be pre-paid in precious metals, no cash accepted

      52. HOLY MACKEREL! This may have something to do with those troop movements. I just saw a huge convoy of camouflage pick-up trucks headed into town! Must have been 50 of ’em. They were honking and waving and weaving all over the road. One even had a suction cup garfield on the window (doing something obscene with himself) And at least half of them had gun barrels hanging out the windows and they were….wait a minute…never mind. It’s just the neighbors coming home from the honky tonk. That would explain the empties they threw in my yard as they went by. Bless their hearts, they know I save aluminum for scrap and they’ve tossed me about 400 bucks so far this year. Must have been a 3 star saturday night from the looks of their police ‘escort’ trying to catch up with ’em!

      53. The trading in the Isaeli stock market was halted after a 6% drop. Same thing for the Saudi Exchanges..

      54. G20 has an emergency meeting over the United States downgrade today. The fact is the world economy is falling apart. G20 is beginning implementation of a NWO. Shit will hit the fan on Monday and world markets (starting with Asian tonight) sell off. Obama administration knew this was coming and asked S&P to please wait until friday night to release the downgrade in order to give people a few days to absorb it before the markets open. End result TEOTWAWKI World economy is all tied together, we knew this last year as Europe was collapsing. (which it still is).

        • Tony,

          I remember some years ago we were saying, in what world our grand-children are going to live.
          We were so stupid to laugh about it, we were so stupid to believe that all those euphoria will last for ever.
          Today, that i’m prepared mentally and physically, i still cannot absorb the volume of human greed and intollerance.
          I’m pretty sure that this planet has the means to feed us all. But the thing always leads to where we are now, due to human weakness.
          My wish to all of you, is to be strong and healthy.
          Protect your beloved ones and stick together.

          Be safe and stay alert


          • I agree. The only problem i see regarding food is that once the economy, stock market, and dollar completely collapse the companies that produce the food will no longer be doing so. This will cause shipments to stop and grocery store shelves will be emptied within 24 hours. Our society relies on grocery stores. That is why this depression will by far outweight the great depression, because during the great depression the majority of people were self sufficient through their own farming, thats just how it was back then. So unless someone has a lot of land to plant and grow their own food many people will die or die trying to get food. This kind of break down in society will be catastrophic.

            • Expect a lot of labor problems, probably quite justified but stoppages none the less. If the workers are not being paid enough to supply very basic needs they will not work. If that happens here and there the entire supply chain is in peril. Everything need not be bottlenecked to inhibit the supply of goods.

              Someone said that the most civilized society is only seven meals away from kayos. Realistically how much can a family store? Assume a years worth, then what?

              The Great Depression is an interesting example but not an accurate one. Unlike the potential today their money was good. Maybe too few people had any but what circulated had value, high value. The supply chain was operable if you had money to buy something. In event of a collapse the money has no value. As Gary Cooper said in Sgt York, “That ah be ah different”.

      55. Monday morning, S&P upgrades the U.S. back to AAA and apologizes for the downgrade. Dow gains to record highs 14,000+. Unemployment drops to 8.8%, the economic recovery has never been better.

        • I’ve got quite a few AAA stored up from last year. I don’t care for the bunny rabbit.

      56. what is going on u.s?
        when nepolian exists france would be superpower for 100 years. when czhenkiskhan exists china wouldbe superpower for
        100 years. after england would be superpower for 100 years.
        after that now u.s ruling the world as a superpower on 20th century.
        On 21 century this is right time of u.s. will end of the superpower.

      57. Grandpa what’s this picture here, it’s black and white, it ain’t real clear, is that you there?,
        Yeah, I was eleven. Times were tough back in ’35, thats me and your uncle Joe just try’n to survive, a cotton farm, the great depression,
        And if it looks like we were scared to death, like a couple of kids just try’in to save each other, you should of seen it in color…….

        We’re gonna see it in color folks, take care.

        • And in HD.

      58. I am holding out hope, that it will stabilize. I am deployed to Afghanistan and I need to be home with my family when the SHTF. I do not get home until December. I just need a little more time.

        • Praying for you, BH…and thank you for serving! Have your family prepare the best they can…if they live in military housing they will be probably be ok…IF they have food and water stored, if they don’t, they need to hit the commissary asap! If not in military housing, maybe they have friends on base/post they can stay with if SHTF!!

        • Thank you Bighog and if you see our son Chance slap him and tell him to stop writing on my party barn’s wall. Even paint won’t cover up that damn sharpie.

        • Morphed: great post!

          P.S. I even blew up the image of UN flag with the bullet holes in it. Now have a new wallpaper! 🙂

          Sincerely thanks!


      59. The funny but sad is the fact the media isn’t posting anything about the middle east stock exchanges shutting down

        • DPS:

          We need to quit referring to it as media. I would refer to it as (SPN) State Propaganda Network. I’m sure someone can think of an even better name for it. 🙁

          You’er right the middle east stock exchanges shut down is being keep on the down low.

          • If you folks think this rating shyt is going to have much affect, LMFAO, I just got back from the Grocery store. And just 1 example 10 lb potatoes $5.77 up from 2 weeks ago at $3.99.thats a increase or 30.85% would not be suprised to see all groceries go up 30% by the weeks end. And it will be very interesting to see what happens to the asia markets this afternoon. Think I’ll head out for some more ammo today.

            • Sam’s tuna is up 40 cents for 10 cans—other increases I didn’t notice.

              I wasn’t paying $1 for a green pepper there ..so, I
              got those for my pickled squash at DG..2 for $1.

            • But uncle BB does not see any real price inflation!! You just THINK you paid more. Nothing to see here…

      60. Better start learning basic Mandarin.

      61. I notice there is always someone here arguing about something.
        We all have to be on same page or THEY win!
        THEY have always used misdirection as favorite tool!
        If you are arguing with someone about this stuff you are wasting valuable time on the important stuff.
        Your party affiliation is of little use when it is nothing but a SOAP OPERA.
        Our govt has become nothing but a theatrical nightmare!.
        Anyone with a brain knows it is a sham.
        I do run into people who think it is real and I have to ask them if they are SERIOUS.
        The sad thing is they are serious!
        This SUPERCONGRESS is unbeleievable and being allowed by the SHEEPLE!
        Are you serious….A SUPERCONGRESS….they really do think we are stupid….and it seems to be working.

      62. So whats the likely hood of us all waking up on Monday and this was a dream? Or that it will all get a band-aid and be all better by then? Yeah I’m being a bit snarky but .. OH WELL!
        At least DH is starting to wake up as well..

        See you all on the flip side take care and

      63. just go out and buy a new gun and a thousand rounds of ammo. You’ll feel better! I sure did !!

        • good logic…very soooothing

      64. London is burning with riots in Tottenham, Israel Stock Exchange -7% today… SaudArabia -5% etc… the system is going down to maintenance mode now!

        • just a fire sale.

      65. How about that, costs going up, whoda thunk it?

        US debt deal means paying for college – especially graduate school – will get tougher

        “…There’s also the lingering possibility the country could lose its top-notch credit rating, which would push up interest rates on private student loans.

        …The additional cost could push up total debt at graduation by an average of about 16 percent.

        The debt deal also eliminates a discount given to borrowers who make their payments on time…

        Tax breaks. They could be scaled back. Nearly 10 million taxpayers deducted student loan interest in 2009, according to H&R Block…”


        • Clark: You don’t have to worry about paying for gard school, you have already voiced your distain for someone with an education.

          Get your GED while its still free. 🙂

          • It’s free???? I had to pay for mine! Just kidding. Last I heard though, there was a 30 fee to sit for it at our local college. At this point, I’m not so worried about fine arts and fluffy humanities. I’m teaching my kids self sustaining basics. Someone asked me what literature my kids would be reading this year in homeschool. I replied, “How to raise pigs for profit.” Not to poopoo education or the classics, but it’s a matter of survival. Knowing shakespere isn’t going to feed someone.

          • No, Durango Kidd this was more about how you said costs were contained for those who got student loans.

            Add this cost increase with food price increases, with taxes going up, with wages stagnating and continued layoffs shrinking job prospects and a large number of Americans have a real mess on their hands if they took out a bunch of student loans expecting a rosy future.

            But then I didn’t think you’d discuss the issues surrounding that because all you ever want to do is sling mud.

      66. I think it was Santayana that said something about “those who fail to learn from history are doomed to repeat it.”

        So many wany to tie all this to the creation of the Federal Reserve. Others to unions, corporations, Congress, etc. Yes, everyone of them played a role, but none of these was the cause, but rather the symptoms.

        Others proclaim there is no such thing as a free-market. Wrong, but I can forgive you for the mistake as the few free markets left are pretty invisible and highly localized.

        So what went wrong? For us, it was the sudden and over-whelming wealth generated during the last quarter of the 19th century. This collapse of a working system happened to the Roman Empire, Spanish, and now the Eu and the US. Gold was pegged at $20.67 and the gold rushes from Cali to Alaska and several points in between generated massive dollar wealth.

        Under a normal system, all government revenues are derived from consumption; tariffs, etc. But with massive profits the urge to tax income takes over. What if the people saved their income? This savings and no inflation removes wealth from circulation and (drum roll please) makes the rise of family dynasties a certainty. Hence estate taxation.

        The Fed and income tax was foisted on the citizens as a preventer of boom and bust cycles and only targetted those who had appreaciable income. And how did that work out?

        All corporate taxes are paid by the consumer. Are the laws equitable concerning deductions, credits, etc equitable? No! But shut the F U. You aren’t getting paid more for having more parasitic children, but you claim the deductions. Income tax? Bullshit, it is a regressive attack against those who attempt to live within their means.

        Unions played a vital role in the leveling of the employer-employee relationship for several large companies, but even Henry Ford paid well enough for his employees to buy his cars. And without a union. Collective bargaining is collective blackmail. I was a union man in 3 different unions APEA, SEIU, UBC&J LPIW. In every case, the best workers are screwed while the ash and trash employees grin like the shit-eating possums they are.

        When an economy suffers from manipulation to smooth the fluctuations, the end result is never good in the long run. Welcome, come on in and experience the long run. It is here.

        In the past 50 years that I have been cognizant and knowledgeable to see the mess, I have learned that panic NEVER leads to a desired outcome. Logic and reason must be the order of the day. Base every decision on the best evidence available and trust no one for a detailed analysis.

        Take all your beliefs and pound them up your butt. As we get hungry, maybe the belief will keep the crap inside you longer so you might extract more calories.
        Couple more books for your reading list. Uh you do read more than these blogs don’t you?

        The Economic of Public Issues, Miller,Benjamin, North, Pearson Addison-Wesley, (mine is 14th ed) 2005, Boston.

        Stone Age Economics, Sahlins, 1973, Aldine de Gruyter, Hawthorne NY.

      67. Oops, That is “The Economics of Public Issues.
        As a few others have pointed out, intelligence and college don’t infer anything. Intelligence is the ability to learn a presented subject quickly. Presented does not imply accuracy. Even worse, we fail to train ourselves to analyse the subject and exercise intellectual laziness. Critical thinking skills lead to forethought of probable outcomes. The execise is called applied wisdom.

        And yes, been to college ~ 3.5 years over 3 decades and witnessed the deteriorating level of education and rapid rise of physical infrastructure. After 30 years in Alaska’s rural environment, I have found among the non-natives a much higher level of education, intellectual honesty and most of all, highly stimulating debate on most subjects. Hey, what else you gonna do at -25F and lower?

        • Regardless of the level of formal education honesty or better said ethics is of the upmost importance. It appears that the once an income becomes detached from “real life” the ethics tend to decline. It’s probably linear. To paraphrase gas law physics, “double the wealth and the ethics reduce by one half”. There is something said about a wealthy man entering heaven that somewhat sums it up.

          Teddy Roosevelt said an uneducated man robs a train while an educated man steals the railroad. People with PHDs and MBAs put us in this mess.

      68. Let the dogs out. The markets are open. Dow futures down 253, Au 1685.

      69. Yup.. if the futures hold, it looks like we’re going to get quit a pop in metals..

      70. POA: I agree that people should be working rather than collect unemployment and/or a welfare check. Corporate tax rates for public are too high in name only; not in practice.

        Everyone should pay a fair, flat tax. Why should corporations have special priviledges? Why should corporations be able to deduct any number of expenses that families cannot; like a car, or interest on the purchase of a car?

        All of this can be debated as infinitium, but the cause of unemployment isn’t union wages, and the transfer of the American means of production offshore was not caused by high taxes, unions, labor laws, or even OSHA.

        The EXODUS of the American means of production offshore, with American jobs, American GDP to pay OUR national debt, and the destruction of the American Middle Class, was a Great Conspiracy (paid for by gangster bankster lobbyists) between a globalist POTUS and Congress; in collusion with the Chinese Communist party and gangster banksters who profit most from the treason.

        Everything else, including entitlements is a symptom and a distraction.

      71. Yes, you should panic if you’re not prepped, & own metal with a paid off home.

      72. NZ stockmarket loses $1 billion at open
        updated 11:26
        Published: 5:50AM Monday August 08, 2011 Source: ONE News

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        AMP Business Aug 8: Morning Market Watch (3:43) .
        05:21 Chance of further US credit rating downgrade
        US loses AAA rating, G7 finance ministers to meet watch
        New Zealand’s stock exchange lost over 3% or around $1.2 billion in value after opening at 10am today.

        The NZX 50 fell 109.69, or 3.3%, to 3166.813 in the first 20 minutes of trading, heading for the lowest close since September 30.

        • Aussie down 2%

      73. The talking heads are really trying to do their part to play this down..

        • This ain’t no party;
          This ain’t no disco;
          This ain’t no foolin’ aroooooound….

          • all I want to do is have some fun

      74. spent my time on friday and yesterday in my booth at a big festival in n.e. mississippi…many booths were offering products that a prepper could use…there were big crowds both days even though it was a earth scorching hot weekend interrupted a few times with thunderstorms….people were being very careful what they spent their money on, and many were just looking and not spending a dime. people watching can be very interesting and quite educational.

      75. BS Your comment is awaiting moderation

      76. Holy cowballs! Gold spot just hit $1,717!

      77. We’ll see what exactly happens…but as it stands now, it’s looking like this week is going to be rather interesting.

        The Dow futures has been bouncing between -250 and -300 all day…

      78. Looks like the Asian markets are peeing their pants. Oil is even down a few bucks. Meanwhile, my favorite shiney metal is up a couple, pushing hard at $40 again and gold is…drum roll please……$1710 (as of about 2am okie time.) No doubt PMs, and the stock markets, will undulate like an epileptic porno star over the next few days, and gold could certainly dip back below 1700. Still, it’s kind of eerie watching all this happen. I aint skeered yet but I sure wish I wasn’t 1000 miles from home right now…somebody hold my hand 🙁

        • Day-um…

          I checked again – still hanging around $1710.

          …and yes, it is a bit eerie. This, along with the current action is pretty much all major stock markets, could be just meaningless robo-trading or something…and everything will be back to “normal” in like 12 hours…

          …OR, this COULD be “it.”

          I’ve been telling my friends and family for the last couple of years that, even though I don’t know exactly what’s going to happen, we will be telling our grandchildren about this period of history…and how we lived through it. However, to be honest, I’m not sure I really, really, meant it…and I guess I’m still not positive I mean/meant it…but I’m getting closer with each passing day.

        • $2500 gold doesn’t seem so far fetched now, does it?

        • Wow, Bloody, I was just listening to that song on utube Before I saw your comment!
          Seems like things are getting curiouser and curiouser. And I see the euro central banksters are gonna buy some bonds…maybe I could sell ’em a million or so in ‘construction’ bonds and rebuild the okie homestead. Surely my credit is no worse than any european(or american) government’s. I know I’m not quite as bankrupt as they are!
          Looks like it’ll be an ‘interesting’ week to say the least.

        • Are you any kin to Robin Williams? You talk like him.

          • I’m not much of a Williams fan. Those are fighting words JJ!

      79. It’s disappointing seeing silver lagging behind. I understand the big money is moving into gold. Commodities are dropping, for now anyway. Silver is being sold off because they see a slow down in manufacturing coming which is driving the price down, this is outweighing the investor demand, for now.

        It will have it’s day soon, once middle class America finally realizes their situation, they will rush to metals. Gold will be to high for many of them to own so they will buy silver.

        I also think that copper could play a monetary role to some extent. Not right away, but once gold and silver are out of reach for most, what will be next? There are copper bars and coins already being brought to the market in a limited scale. Don’t know if it will be worthwhile or not, but I picked up 300 lbs of clean copper scrap from a machine shop, mostly plate. Who knows, might pay off some day.

        • True… bugs me too. But when I look at the % gain, gold is up 3.46 and silver up 4.26%, so even though silver has gotten beaten up more, at least it is not being left in the dirt.. % wise.

        • OKPrepper:

          Keep buying while it’s still cheap!

          I buy silver every month from my local coin dealers and pawn shops. A lot of small town jewelry stores have junk silver coins that they will sale to you for around spot price. I buy pre-1964 dimes, quarters, half-dollars. I also buy dollars like the Morgan & Peace dollars. If they have the Eagles I buy them too.


          • I am already loaded up, same with others in my family. I started buying at $11 and $920. I started with the bullion and bullets first, then moved into beans and band aids. Now my focus is on the bug out. I have the 5 B’s well in hand, just need more time to complete the last item.

            This will sound selfish but hope we see QE3 soon. To explain… Our financial system is done for, it’s only a matter of time. What is another trillion the way they are printing money. If it buys us more time to prep, I am all for it.

      80. Good luck, Americans. From a concerned Australian and fellow earthling. xox

      81. the title”U.S. Downgrade to AA .should we panic?”
        That would be YES!…..The markts are dumping as of now.
        crash and burn

        • Can you tell me where to look? I’ve only really been looking at the gold and silver prices. NYSE site not too much info.

            • Thanks. 😉

          • yahoo finance page to Suzy

      82. No. Do Not Panic. Invest in oxygen.

      83. Why does it take forever for a comment to post Mac? What are you moderating in a post that has no URL?

        • Scott, my apologies, but this is a WordPress AKISMET automation… it just kind of decides on its own what it will moderate and what it won’t…. anything with two (2) links or more should drop into moderation per our comment settings, but otherwise, I have made no other restrictions… I am looking for a better app to do this, but I think it will likely have to boil down to “registered users” to completely avoid moderation for those the system “trusts.” this update should be coming when our forum goes live in the next week or two.

          Thanks for your patience (and you too DPS, I know this is frustrating you)

          • No worries thanks Mac!

      84. No need to panic. You are either prepared or you are not. If you aren’t prepared, you probably still don’t see the handwriting on the wall. “All is well”.

      85. ARRRGGGGHHHHHH!!!!!!!! Our Idiot and Chief just responded to the downgrade by calling for more taxes an increase in unemployment benefits and promising, promising mind you, to present his “plan” in the “next few weeks”.

        Good Lord, he isn’t 50, he is 5.

      86. Well as predicted the market is plummeting. Be prepared for higher costs and even less job opportunities. I don’t care what the prez says, until our country learns to live within its means things are going to suck.

        On a related note, I heard something about taxes for even the wealthy -how about taxes for everyone?

        Disclaimer: This is a rant, this is only a rant. I am venting my frustration. there is no promise of logic or coherence. If you are offended or laugh your eyes out, I’m glad to have been entertainment in this messed up state of affairs. Continue reading at your own risk 😉

        Maybe our government should simply make a flat tax – no loopholes, no deductions, none of the tax bracket crap or beneath this line garbage. You have your company in America but your factory is out of country? Doesn’t matter, you pay tax on your income. Every single person, regardless of income should pay the same percent of their income in taxes. You earned $5? you pay the same percent of that income as someone who earned $5 million. What percent? I don’t know, I’m no economist, but something has got to give or our nation is going to continue to sink. I hate taxes, but we all use the roads, parks etc.

        And hey, how many pet projects can be eliminated from our spending as a nation? Taking my money and the money of my fellow americans and giving to people who just keep popping kids out, and then taking more of that money to provide daycare, gas vouchers, and many more programs is simply theft regardless of how altruistic the motives may be. I work my arse off to support my family and I’m tired of being robbed blind by the government so they can support the moochers. I have said in the past I have more respect for a stripper and a janitor than I do for anyone collecting “welfare” and I stand by that. (Just so we are clear on this, I do not consider social security a welfare program. It is money that americans loaned the government and it belongs to the people. It is not the will of the people who loaned that money in to be robbed of it. They ARE entitled to it because it belongs to them!)

        I’m sick of the talking heads and side-shows and the political pandering. Make america a level playing field again. Stop kissing the arses of corp. america and the leeches and breeders.

        Wheeew! Guess I had that on my mind for a while. I now return you to the market falling and PM’s on the rise…

      87. Let’s hope China and Russia don’t drop the dollar tomorrow as the world reserve currency. That would start the fast burn.

      88. Chief needs a new speech writer! All he did was regurge the same crap. We as a Nation etc. blah blah blah

      89. Rome is burning and Nero is playing his fiddle…
        history repeats, again, humans learn nothing…

        How many times in history does a country have to ruin itself funding costly foriegn wars before we realize it is a bad idea?

        I am so sick and tired of “military appreciation days” …it is disgusting. I turned off the baseball game this last weekend because i could not stand the BS. It is propaganda. These mercenaries signed up for a job to go kill and destroy other people and places, AND WE PAY THEIR SALARIES!!!!!?? FOR WHAT …. SO THEY PROTECT THE HERION CROP IN AF…. SOP THEY CAN PROTECT THE OIL IN IRAQ??!!! while we go broke?? fk everything about that.

        How much of our national budget is paid to the military industrial complex? Ike warned us in 1959, and we ignored him… and now we are fkd…. DJIA down 1500 points …gold at 1750 …. so fkn stupid.

      90. Rumors of QE3 are starting to circulate. If they do pull that trigger, gold prices will explode. $1771 and counting.
        Pisses me off that silver is lagging, it will catch up though and blow gold out of the water once Joe6pac wakes up and finally starts to buy.

      91. On a different subject, but related, have you seen how hard copper prices are being hit? All the talking heads are saying it’s from the anticipated slowdown in manufacturing. Remember back in the spring when JPM bought something like 75% of the above ground copper? Could be they are getting hammered in the stock market and are dumping some of this copper to cover their losses. I hope those bastards burn in hell.

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