Gov Targets Ammo Supply Lines: Prices to Rise Sharply As America’s Last Lead Supplier Calls It Quits

by | Nov 1, 2013 | Headline News | 428 comments



A couple of years ago we opined that the anti-gun establishment had found a loophole for the Second Amendment and that rather than targeting the banning of all firearms, they would instead turn their attention to ammunition.

The government’s most recent efforts to reduce open market availability through taxation, individual purchase restrictions and a massive stockpiling effort by the Department of Homeland Security has forced ammunition prices to nearly triple, while also dwindling supplies of many popular calibers.

But they’re not done yet.

In fact, they may have finally found a way to circumvent U.S.-based domestic production altogether.

The all-out attack on Americans’ gun rights is now being taken to the next level.

The goal is to regulate all forms of ammunition out of existence, and they’re starting with Doe Run, which is the last of America’s domestic lead processing and manufacturing facilities.

Now, the only ore-to-lead producer in America… the largest in the Western world… has been shut down by EPA regulation.

EPA’s regulatory uncertainty and an estimated $100 million to convert [to non-smelter manufacturing] caused the company to finally throw in the towel.

It’s not just ammunition that’s disappearing. American industry… American jobs…. are being regulated out of existence as well.

Lead’s still going to be manufactured in China, but it’ll be done without any environmental oversight, it’ll be scarce, it’ll be expensive, and we’ll have fragile supply lines.

It’s party of multi-pronged attack on ammunition.

  • Drying up the market by hoarding billions of rounds
  • Shutting down the market with background checks, registration, and banning of online sales
  • Environmental regulation to ban the use and manufacture of lead

And after we can no longer manufacture ammunition domestically we have the UN Arms Trade Treaty to stop the importation of ammunition.

…If you look at the multiple ways they’re trying to remove all ammunition… not just certain guns they believe are dangerous… there’s no question that this is about all-out gun control.

Via David Knight of 

Doe Run is scheduled to layoff its workforce and close its doors before the end of the year.

With no more lead being processed in America, we are now completely dependent on our largest creditor, China, to supply the necessary base metals for ammunition production.

This will have the immediate effect of further limiting supplies, while also increasing prices, and we can expect this soon after Doe Run’s closure this December.

Furthermore, in April of this year James Rawles of detailed new importation restrictions set forth in a Presidential Executive Action following the Sandy Hook elementary school shooting, which bans the importation of military surplus items that include magazines, firearms accessories and, of course, foreign ammunition.

Couple this with the implementation of U.N. “authorized” trade restrictions set forth in the new UN Arms Trade Treaty, and you can see where this is headed.

It is not an over-exaggeration to suggest that ammunition supply lines will soon be cut, effectively making it nearly impossible to acquire.

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    1. hillbilly SC

      Got What I need till it all falls apart.

      Which sucks, 🙁 because I enjoy what I have today.

      Y’all play nice. 🙂

      hillbilly SC

      • Jack Hammer

        Same here. Just bought another 500 rounds of 5.56 yesterday. That brings me up to 35K in 5.56. I wish I had more but that should do until the jack booted thugs drop their magazines in battle. That will be the only way to get ammo in the future, from the enemies of the American People.
        Stay Frosty!

        • Joe

          There is plenty of lead in the states. It is everywhere and cheap. Expect a rise in car battery thefts.

          • Gods Creation

            Time to conserve your bullets. Quit target practice unless the target is one of those trying to take away your guns. In that case, it is ok to use 5 or 6 just to make sure.

            The question is, how long are the people going to wait before they rise up and put a stop to this kind of crap.

            Obama’s and his Jew masters actions are transparent after all. We just need enough people to see past the shit spewing from his mouth.

            • DPS


              Good to see you, I still practice every weekend. But thats only because I reload.


              • durango kidd

                Methinks, its too little too late. Patriots have been buying tons of ammo for years, stacking and packing. Time to save your bullets and use the money that you would normally spend shooting at the range on suppressors, laser, and night vision sights. Then it won’t be necessary to use 5 or 6 rounds per target. (And by a quality crossbow, too.)

                One shot. One kill. Engage your enemy before they engage you. 🙂

            • Paranoid

              Sorry but I don’t believe the Gov plans that far ahead or is that smart. There is enough ammo out there for any kind of war for the next 30 years. We will be using Laser pistols before we run out of lead.

              • JustMe


              • Gods Creation

                Paranoid, the banksters plan in terms of 20, 50, and 100 years to achieve their goals.

                While i agree the people have too much ammo for this to make that big a difference now, they are doing today for results planned in 20 years from now. And if 20 is not enough, they will wait 30 more.

                If they are allowed to remain in power for another 20 years, most of us will be dead and what they did to ammo manufacturers and the rest of this country will be remembered as the greatest thing for the environment that was ever done.

                In fact, the only chance the people have is to push them to act so quickly they make a fatal mistake and wake up the masses while they are well armed and able to defend themselves.

                They are not as smart as they think they are, but they are patient and very cunning in achieving their aims while maintaining cover.

                The people must make them act too quickly to hide what they are doing from the brain dead masses. It must not remain hidden in foggy and propagandized memories of the past.

                It is likely time to start pushing back a little harder. The news must be filled with people who have had enough and instead of shooting up schools are shooting any “officer” who attempts to impede their rights.

                The day of that is drawing near.

                • Paranoid

                  We will run out of: oil, gas, coal, food, good money, and time; long before we run out of lead.

                • Ed_B

                  No, they are not nearly as smart as they keep telling us they are. Their signature legislation is a POS and everyone with an IQ above room temp now knows it. Also, they are eroding their own base because there are lots of working guys / union men out there who hunt, shoot, and enjoy collecting guns. The brainless yappies will only get them so far and they’ve about used them up.

                • durango kidd

                  God’s Creation: You are right about one very important thing: the NWO has been pushing as hard as it can to achieve whatever gains they can without generating too much resistance while they hold the reigns of power.

                  WE see evidence of that every day.

                  In their exuberance they have rushed to implement a bad health care/population control plan and Illegal Amnesty upon US. They have purged the military of Patriots. They have multiplied OUR taxes. They have overstepped their bounds and the backlash has begun. The liberals will be crushed next November.

                  Still, no one should stay home. If WE do the Transformation of America will proceed apace and it will disappear into the North American Union under UN auspices.

                  They take the gains they can, try to consolidate them and hold them if they can, while they wait until the next time they come to power. The current Regime has been planning and plotting behind the scenes for decades for the Day that they came to power, preparing legislation to corral and control, US.

                  Its now or never. Engage! 🙂

              • James Woroble Jr

                Hate to say it, but, they sure do…


                I know this for CERTAIN!

              • Leonard

                Hope you’re right…

              • Collier

                our present government will use laser guns on us to stamp out The TEA-PARTIER’S

            • John Chapman

              “his Jew masters ?” Spare us the skinhead crap. If his masters were “jews”, he wouldn’t have such an affinity for the forces of fundamentalist, anti=dhimmi Islam.

            • Joe

              There are a lot of “Jew” lay people who are on the side of freedom. It doesn’t do us any good denigrating potential allies. If you must, just use the term “Zionist.” Not all Zionists are Jews and not all Jews are Zionists. Blaming Jews is like blaming white people.

              • Jewish Patriot

                Some Jews are Zionist (That is they beleive the land of Israel was given to the Jews by the God – See The Bible) and that does not mean they are not patriotic constitution loving Americans! I know, I am one. Blame central bankers and global elite and NWO types sure, but know they are not all of any particular background. (If they where Zionist, the UN would not be so Anti-Israel.) The bad guys are these NWO Elite Banksters, and they are theives and it is not the teachings of their Bible they have any interest in, but just greed and power over us.

                • John Jay

                  The Zionists talked about here don’t have anything to do with the Bible. They are Ashkenazi jews which are not jews at all. No Jewish blood, just a culture that converted for convenience. Khazars. Rothschild, Soros, Warburg, Schiff, Oppenheimer. Soros worked against the Jews in Germany. They are the NWO banksters. Rothschilds owns much of Israel and controls much in the world. They plan the wars and make money on both sides. Ask the Rabbi’s about the Zionists, they want nothing to do with them. They started the Nazi regeime. Where do you think Nazi came from? Ashkenazi. Hitler was said to have been the illegitimate son of Rothschilds house maid, groomed for the plan. Rothschilds wanted power in the Middle East and orchestrated the whole thing. Read Grand Master Mason, Albert Pikes book, the 3 world wars are all laid out and the plans to kill are for power and greed. The true Jews are God’s people. The Ashkenazi are Gentiles hiding behind a religion for the advanantage they can gain. It’s all there.

            • Semper Fi, y'all

              Have regular target shoots. Prizes: 1st place gets the bear, 2nd place gets to dig the lead out of the tree.

              Semper Fi

            • Justice

              More anti Jew Bullshit ! Brobama is a Muslim get it straight ! He aint Jewish and doesn’t/wouldnt have anything to do with a Jew since they are his sworn enemy !

            • Collier

              Only a few Jews stand beside Obama on these issues ! Most of the Jews in the world & Israel think He’s the biggest joke of the century !!!
              I am a Jew !!!!

          • Showmestater

            Being from Missouri, which is (was, I guess now) the #1 producer of lead in the country, this is not going over well here. There is a Doe Run mine just an hour from my house. There are a lot of pissed off people around here, and they know that this is a round about way to achieve gun control. They (gov) have not been too successful in controlling/eliminating guns, so now their tactic is to eventually eliminate all ammo so that our guns will, in the long run (using up our supply) be essentially useless. It is getting to the point now, whereby you’re fortunate to be able to buy even .22 shells. The planned take down of our economy through outsourcing and regulations is/has killed our way of life. Down the road is the full implementation of Agenda 21 and the confiscation of our homes and all private land ownership. Revolution, anyone??

            • Tucker

              I went to a gun show in my area a few weeks ago, and I didn’t see any .22LR or .22Mag ammunition for sale. Lots of other calibers, though. And, the prices on the ammo were unbelievable.

              Which presents me with a question for all those gun show dealers. If you guys are on the side of the patriotic, pro-Second Amendment, anti-Communist people – why are you guys trying to gouge your customers? I understand that you guys want to make a profit, so you can stay in business – and earn a decent living for yourselves and your families.

              But, this issue of government tyranny and the fact that we see these Communist cockroaches who’ve taken over D.C. busy stockpiling millions of rounds of ammo and arming themselves to the teeth and obviously getting ready to start slaughtering American patriots by the millions – and here you guys are, jacking up the prices on the ammunition you sell so high that American patriots can barely afford to purchase the ammunition they will need to defend themselves against the impending tyranny?

              As I said, I do not begrudge you guys making a decent profit, but there is a point at which you need to ask yourself a question: Is my desire to rape the eyeballs out of my fellow Second Amendment supporters more important than helping my fellow patriots be able to afford to acquire the precious ammo they are going to need to fight these Communist bastards, once the 2nd American Revolution arrives?

              Give this question some thought. If we lose this coming battle, these Commie cockroaches are going to confiscate your bank accounts where you stashed all of that loot that you fleeced your customers out of, anyway.

              What’s more important? Getting rich or helping your fellow patriots win this battle?

              • Jacks Hammers

                Very good points sir! Your comments are the reasons why I stopped going to gun shows years ago. Very rarely are there any “deals” and often these dealers employ “rabbits” to enhance selling at higher prices. Stick to your local mom & pop shop and buy ammo and gun parts from the internet while you can. The criminal Obama Regime watches and records everything we do so every electronic transaction goes into the giant NSA database. The only way around this government intrusion is to pay cash for everything at gun shows or from other private buyers.

              • sparkey

                iam from Missouri also and I go to gun shows a lot its just what it says gun show!! no wanting to sell just show but I don’t think ammo is much higher than last year I buy a lot of ammo mostly on line have a nice day

              • brady

                Look at it from THEIR side. They do not know when or if there will be more, so they are releasing the quantity of ammo that THEY feel comfortable with, but ONLY if it compensates them enough to then go out and BUY MORE, which is constantly going up in price. Because of this increase, it spirals into everyone having to charge more, to make sure they have enough money for the next purchase. I know it hurts financially, but we have to buy it, so buy it with the prospect of eventually selling YOUR AMMO for TEN TIMES or FIFTY TIMES what You paid for it. I have even considered, (although not yet applied it), buying up high caliber rounds for guns I do not own, for THAT VERY REASON. Some people say invest in Gold and Silver. HA! Can’t afford it! But I can (for a while) afford investing in LEAD and COPPER and BRASS, when combined in neat little, transportable packages that SOMEDAY, SOMEWHERE, SOMEONE will gladly give me A BUNDLE for them. It is the NEW BARTER CURRENCY.

                One .22 short = 1 meal.
                One .22 long rifle = 2 meals.
                One .38 round…
                One 9MM round…
                You get the picture.

                One day soon, there’ll be some dark alley conversation:
                “Psst. Hey buddy. Yeah you. Come here. You got a gun?
                What caliber? Great! I got five rounds of .45 left. Gimme $500 or 5 silver rounds.”

                • Paranoid

                  No chance, If this is true I’ll be able to buy Bill Gates, to clean my yard. What would you do with ammo that expensive? Shoot gold fish (24Kt)

        • Kulafarmer

          Just ordered 1 ton of 3/4″ crusher rock for my slingshot!
          Just gotta get another ton of 2″ filter rock for my throwing stones!

          • Dave

            Its important to stock up on all kids of ammo, because different rounds serve different purposes. Its better to hunt rabbits with a .22LR than a shotgun, its better to snipe someone with .556 rather than a .22LR.

            This reminds me of a video from one of the founders of Practical Preppers, the company that does consulting for that show, Doomsday Preppers. He posted a view about a tool that helps you think about this kind of stuff.


            I subscribed to his channel, I suggest you guys do to, lots of useful prepper info there.

            • Plan Twice, Prep Once

              Don’t overlook a good high power adult air rifle. Small critters have done a large amount of damage to my gardens in the past. If food is scarce, an air rifle can take rabbits, squirrel, even raccoon and groundhog with almost no noise. A crossbow is great for larger critters. If things ever get really bad, I’ll be a lot less tolerant of vermin damaging food crops, and a lot more likely to be eating them.

              Firearms are very noisy and can attract unwanted attention. Ammo for a high class air rifle can be had by the thousands of rounds for very little cash and store indefinitely even under poor conditions They can even be purchased in many locals by preppers who may have previous legal entanglements that prevent them from buying firearms. An air rifle and pistol are excelent to practice with to keep up shooting skills without using difficult to replace, expensive centerfire ammo.

              • Nys Parkie

                1500fps air guns will work wonders on the human brain also. Added benefit, they come fitted with suppressors.

                • Anonymous

                  I read of one guy that ordered some of that super concentrate they dilute and use in pepper spray. He made a paste and filled the tail end of air gun pellets. He shot a guy breaking into his place, and reports the guy was writhing on the floor in pain crying for some one to make it stop hurting? Apparently the guy had a record and couldn’t buy a gun, even though he’d been robbed multiple times. An air gun is legal for him in his state. Cops just laughed, as they dragged the intruder away.

                  No confirmation on this story, but it might be an interesting alternative to deadly force in some cases, say little kids raiding a garden.

          • DRD5508

            Will they take the lead out of pencils too? I’m with Jack, got enough for a few years of fighting and target practice.

            • Archangel

              There is no lead in pencils. Has been Graphite for years

            • Socrates


              Lead has not been used in pencil production for a number of years, due to the toxicity of it. They use a graphite compound.

              More here:

              • DRD5508

                I know folks, just a little tongue in cheeck of sarcasm.

              • mike

                All this time and I truly have no lead in my pencil. What a blow to my ego.

                • sixpack


            • Archivist

              Pencils don’t have lead. It’s graphite.

          • Hammerun

            Guys, guys hold on. There’s a bright side to this. Obama and the EPA just fucked themselves and the democrats. They just pissed off a 100,000,000 American gun owners.

            • Barn Cat

              That doesn’t matter. The Republican leadership is on the same side as the Democrat leadership.

              • Dennis

                Can’t stand obamalamadingdong but I have seen on the webs the new requirement came out in bushs last term.

              • 41MagMan

                “The Republican leadership is on the same side as the Democrat leadership.”

                True. They are different wings on the same vulture. Throw the bastards out, forget about all this “party” BS, and vote for people who understand what liberty and the US Constitution are all about. The party meme is just their way of separating us from each other and from our money. Like a lot of folks, I am ALL done with these jerks.

              • lleclair

                Satan owns both sides.

                • Commie hater

                  Both sides are saturated with commies. Satan is a myth, but commies aren’t. Commies everywhere with no signs of a revolution.

                • Collier

                  Obama, Harry Reid, Nancy Pussilossi, Schumer, Most of the Liberal Senators and most of the Africa-American both holding some type of office and employed in the Obama Government ! ARE BLUE-BLOOD COMMUNISTS !!!! WE PATROITRIOTIC & MIDDLE CLASS INCLUDING YOUNG VOTERS MUST VOTE THEM OUT & RUN THEM OUT OF OUR CAPITOL !!!

            • Gods Creation

              No, they only pissed off the ones who will hear about it and make the connection.

            • Dick

              This is the perfect insentive to stockpile reloading supplies even if you don’t reload. Great barter material or instant hobby when shtf for real. Like PM’s you get it for an alternative economy. We have the Chinese openly threatening us, Putin making BO look foolish, and Cheney telling us the world looks at us as weak. Coupled with our economy collapsing times are becoming more ideal for collapse. Enjoy the days you can, plan and prep for tomorrow.


              • 41MagMan

                “…Putin making BO look foolish…”

                Not that he needs ANY help with that. For a hilarious comparison of Putin and Obama, check the following link:


            • Joe

              Only if they can get off of their couches and vote.

          • wrong


            That was funny.

            • Kulafarmer

              Glad someone saw the humor!

        • OutWest

          Using nazi Germany as protocol, what’s happening

          to America is just a rerun of an old movie.

        • Faith of the fallen

          I don’t quite have your stores “jack hammer” but have significant reserves of various calibers and weapons and am prepared to arm some neighbors when civil war part deux happens. That is the key, a well armed resistance.

          • 41MagMan

            There will be a number of keys… mobility… stealth… sabotage… taking the enemy’s weapons and ammo… comms… and above all, throwing our strength against their weakness, never their strength.

            It will be long, difficult, and bloody. The Tree of Liberty requires it – from time to time. We will do this not for ourselves, for we shall suffer mightily, but for those who come after us that they might know the blessings of liberty. This is a debt that we owe to those who came before us… and we will pay it because we must.

        • Stay Frosty


          I feel quite honoured that you would use my name. Lol!
          On a serious note, TPTB are growing increasingly more bold by the hour. I am relieved that I have had a few years to prep before this. I feel as if big things will commence here shortly. They can only keep kicking the can down the road for so long.
          Stay frosty my friends

        • yental

          OPSEC BROTHER, unless you have much less, or far more that 35K rounds…No one needs to know either way.

        • PrepShepherd

          35k? Wow that is insane! I have a few different ammos and only plan on 500 each at this point, then a 1000 minimal each, over all (will roughly be around 4500 total). If I have the money I’ll get more….I don’t see the reason for getting much more then that though because if I have to use that much ammo, well then there is a very high chance I’ll die anyway. I’m not using it for barter either. Sure I’ll prob buy stuff to make ammo to barter with, but the return policy on bullets isn’t something I want to deal with if you know what I mean! Now if you have a lot of fellow preppers to follow you, then I can see how this could make you a very powerful person.

          I’m already collecting copper, now I plan to start collecting lead too. What are some other metals that may make good bullets? I think tin would be to light, what about gavalized iron, cast iron or wrought iron?

          Off topic, but I was wondering could I submit a article here? Its about making small Self sufficient/hobby farms. I posted it on Fbook once, but that was before I realized they hated preppers so I took it down. I’ve been rewriting one just to keep myself sane and would like to share it.

          • PrepShepherd

            One other thing that crossed my mind, why havn’t someone made a cheaper alternative to ammo caseings and bullets. Has anyone tried hard platics (dangerous prob but they have some though stuff out there) would be good for training and prob not much else.

            • Paranoid

              They have tried, you can use Al or Steel for cases, but Al is just as expensive and does not reload as well and tends to corrode,steel works poorly(Rusts) and is a lot harder to work. Lead is used because it has the highest relative density, giving it the highest sectional density so it conserves energy the best as it flies. As far as bullets; the Japs used wood during WW-II they work but only for very short ranges, steel wears out the barrel very quickly and hasn’t the density for long range. Larger artillery shells had bands of copper to engage the rifling and steel shells. Overall lead/copper brass just work the best for most things’ We don’t get a lot of depleted Uranium.

              • PrepShepherd

                Good to know, just thought I’d ask because I have a lot of scrap metal to sell and was wondering what I sould scrap or keep.

                Whats with all the thumbs down? Is it about the part about 35k ammo was insane? I didnt mean that literally, just that that is a lot of ammo for one person, hell if I had the money I’d have just as much prob.

            • Lost In The C.R.C

              How about nickels? 75% copper / 25% nickel alloy? Yet another reason to horde them besides their “Melt” value…. start sniffing out tire stores for old lead wheel weights, they may actually thank you for taking them off of their hands, as it would be less they habe to dispose of….

              • PrepShepherd

                Been thinking of that myself. My dad was complaining about someone wanting a dollar bill and not change. I told my dad the metal coins are worth more then the paper and he agreed, then he said I’ll give him pennies just to spite him. I then said he would be getting double his money back if that were the case since it cost 2 cents to make a penny and he laughed.

          • Jack Hammer

            Back in 2001 I could buy a case of 5.56 or 7.62X39 for under $100 for a thousand rounds. Those were the good ole days! So…over the years I bought a lot of ammo in 5.56 and various other calibers. Heck, I had 50,000 rounds in .22LR until a few months ago. Now I’m down to 28K in .22LR after letting some of my friends have a bit of my ammo. I can honestly say I’ve spent $400,000 in the past 8 years prepping for the collapse of this country. I have prepared to arm my extended family with weapons, armor, food, gas masks and a varied assortment of other items for survival. I’m an old man, I don’t think I will live through the war the Regime is going to unleash on us but some of my family & friends will see this to the end.

            • 41MagMan

              “I’m an old man, I don’t think I will live through the war the Regime is going to unleash on us but some of my family & friends will see this to the end.”

              Well, Jack, therein lies yet another key to all this. We oldsters won’t be worth a lot in a war but we can do our part by prepping so that the younger folks can carry the day. They have the strength and the endurance while we have the money and the planning. I’m not a hard-core prepper but I do like to prep and do what I can to make things easier for my kids and grand kids. They are the ones for whom I prep.

              There’s one thing about us old farts that people ought to appreciate. We’ve been around, seen and done a lot. We have experience. We’ve felt a lot of pain and have had about all the BS we can stand. People need to know that they can’t screw with us lightly because we just won’t stand for it. They wanna take us down, sure, why not? They can do that. But we ain’t going cheap. We will make a good account of ourselves and they can count on that. We’re just too old, too tired, and too pissed not to. Furthermore, there are a lot of us, so they better come heavy.

              • ScottyK

                One very important function you “old timers” (and I say that with the utmost respect) is to remind us younger folks of what life in the USA was like before all of the socialistic crap became part of the norm.

                I have fond memories of Reagan standing up to the world back when I was a teenager. But what was life like during WWII?

                We need that generation to pass on to the younger generation the stories of what made out country great, so we have something to fight for.

              • Jack Hammer

                My time will soon come to pass & I will be just a memory to those who knew me. My legacy will be my fight against the tyrannical Regime of the current administration. How do I fight the Regime now? I talk to my family, my friends and as many as I can showing them proof of the ulterior motives of the criminal government and the NWO. Once people “wake up” they get angry, very angry at being duped and misled by government hacks and low information voters. It has a snowball effect and I can see thoughts of liberty and freedom spreading as the snowball crashes down hill. The problem is these “snowballs” are not enough to stop the juggernaut of the Obama Regime. The corruption has spread to our state and local governments with the federal government agencies the heads of the Hydra. If I were a military tactician I would derive ways to cut off these heads and re-institute local and state governments that are Constitutional, not tyrannical. Since we don’t have another thirty years to do this we have to batten down the hatches and stand firm waiting for the enemy at the gates to force their way through. After that? All out war. Know who the enemy will be and plan accordingly. Some live among us in our own neighborhoods: The “Homeland Security” neighbor across the street; the corrupt police chief who lives nearby, the TSA workers you see drive by you in the morning as you walk your dog. Make lists of who they are and where they live. When they come with their guns we will have to fight back and fight back HARD!

            • LSB

              Yes, you are right about the 7.62×39 being that amount, at that time. We loaded up in Fairbanks. I remember how heavy that was to carry out to the back parking lot. The men in the store must of thought I was nuts. Been prepping a long time. Also agree with whoever it was that said they would probably pass out the guns and ammo when it starts. The gov wants to tax us to death and then shit on us, well, I guess they will get what they have asked for.

          • mike

            Prep shepherd. We have two American Guinea hogs and now 3 little ones. I think they are a great prepper item for people who have limited amount of land. We just put up a solar electric fence and there you go. They only get to around 250 pounds full grown. We will slaughter the little ones at around 100 pounds. The guinea hog is known for its meat. Due to better marbling than the normal hog the meat taste better. Just thought you and other preppers might find American Guinea hogs interesting for preps.

            • PrepShepherd

              Not a big fan of pigs, we use to have hogs and pretty much every animal you’d see on a big farm. Got rid of most a long time ago and afterward just had a few here and there, a Sheep, a goat or two etc. Now with all the crap going on that is my first prep, I’ll have every animal plus some you don’t see on big farms before april…. Minus the pigs and cows, I don’t have room/money for those, but maybe if I find some cheap miniature cows I’ll get some! No job atm and no luck finding one so preping on savings is hard, no food stocked right now. Atm relying on the animals I have, a greenhouse and hunting if SHTF happens sooner then later. I agree though if you like pork then definitely get some, they will eat anything and I mean anything…if you have some pesky/hostile trespassers Shtf just say “sure I got your food” and show them the hog fence Wink Wink. Good for bartering too.

          • Semper Fi, y'al

            Several different metals have been used for lathe turned bullets, metals such as bronze, copper-nickel and even steel. It is said that Karamojo Bell turned some of his bullets from steel on his lathe. He used them in his 7mm to kill elephants. One rifle he used was the 6.5×54mm Mannlicher-Schönauer cartridge.

            Save precious metals: lead, copper, tin, brass, bronze, antimony, wheel weights and linotype. Lay in many primers, by the thousands and brass cases (all calibers).
            Semper Fi

        • NSA watching says

          Hmmm ok grab his I.P. address he admits to 35k in just one caliber. Surely he is stocked to the teeth.

          • Jack Hammer

            35K is nothing! One of my prepper friends has ten times that amount and an underground bunker. Now that is something to see. NSA can kiss my ass.

            • tayronachan

              @Jack Hammer, I heard rumors in the mid ’90s about a guy, or group of guys, that hid eight or ten M35 Deuce and half trucks that were loaded with ammo, out in a desert somewhere here in the US. For some reason I got the impression a lot of it was larger caliber ammo. Remember this is right after Waco and Ruby Ridge. There are people still very sore about those incidents. Anyway, there can be no doubt that there are untold quantities of ammo stashed here in the US.

        • God's Cremation

          That’s smart. Let people online (or otherwise ie NSA) know how much you have in your stockpile. Good opsec.

          • SELF DEFENSE PEN

            The gov.t stooges have everyone’s IP address logged and track all the places you’ve been and all that you post.

            Just keep that in mind folks.

            When shit goes down… move all you shit.

            The very fact you are on this site makes you a target for a door knocking.

        • Mark

          How is the traitors we call the government going to get ammo for the military if they shutdown all the lead smeltering plants. Oh wait I guess we can send our military into battle with just knives. Since they have taken everything else away from them.

      • Unreconstructed Southron

        Just another coincidence…
        …for all those “coincidence theorists”…

        Y’all play smart.

        Another hillbilly (and damned proud of it)from the Palmetto State.

        • Be informed

          I get very irritated at RICH99 sometimes, but what RICH says about the need of the government to disarm everyone before they can “TRY” to enslave us and issue martial has some real truth to it. These government bastards are trying to backdoor everything from ammo to people’s ability to reload to restrictive measures to firearms. I just don’t see how anyone of these masses cannot see what is happening. It is not about making people’s lives safer by taking away people’s right to defend themselves. It is about disarming everyone so the taking of people’s freedoms are much easier.

          I would love to have someone passing out bumper stickers everywhere that says “GUNS SAVE LIVES”. Especially stick some of these bumper stickers on these ass wipe anti-gunners’ cars.

          People that I know are doing one thing when they get ammunition, STORING IT. You can’t go practice with something that might not be available anymore. If you spend say 10 cents per round on some good quality .22 ammo, and you go use it up, 6 months later that could 20 cents, 30 cents or more that you blew off, IF you can even get it. The government doesn’t like people storing up ammo, and you just watch some BO executive order, and I mean BO stink order, that says you are only allowed some ridiculously low amount of each caliber that you can keep.

          There are so many other restrictions that these f’ers can put on all of us. I am also waiting for a false flag mega shooting by a bunch of terrorists to be used as a springboard to get enough congessional support for a mass sweeping attack against the 2nd Amendment and every other freedom they seem fit to destroy.

          • Nimrod Hunter

            One just happened at LAX. We will all be hearing much more “tears and flap-doodle” about that from the government media.

          • Unreconstructed Southron

            Yep, BI. And soon.

          • rainyday

            The easiest way to get guns out of peoples hands is to get them to willfully trade them. When they make people so desperate for food/water to feed thier families many will gladly hand over their arms to get what they need. I have figured that they would come after the ammo for some time but there will still be a black market there for those who can pay/trade. To really kick people in the nuts would be to make them hungry which also makes them more mallable (reeducation).

            • sixpack

              Well, it feels like one might as well trade a gun that you can’t get ammo for anyway. What’s the point of owning a high-priced door stop, when your family is going hungry?

              I think we can pretty much plan on that happening in the near future.

              Stockpiling lead weights in Oregon…

              • JayJay

                What’s the point of owning a high-priced door stop gun??

                ‘Cause it makes a good club?? 🙂

                • sixpack

                  So does a table leg.

                • Lost In The C.R.C

                  I prefer a 30″ long stick of 1″ rigid gas pipe…

            • SWFL

              If people are going to be trading guns for food, maybe I should own more food.

            • Slick One

              I think the 2nd amendment was to make sure that if a government attempted thi that the common man and woman would use set guns to set things aright. Trying to make someone trade their firearm for food,could backfire badly as the hungry man with a gun might use it to take the food offered and more.

          • Gods Creation

            “”””There are so many other restrictions that these f’ers can put on all of us. “”””

            Actually, there are none. Of course, you can still volunteer to be restricted but you will become useless in the fight for freedom.

      • snake eater


        we need tp hook up I can show you where to get akk the lead you`ll ever need if Shtf,,,,,


      • Anonymous

        China is not going to send us bullets– they want us disarmed! They want our country!

        This is just totally unbelievable!! Just when I think this “administration” couldn’t do worse– they do something much worse! Damn!

        Can someone please direct me to a link to make my own???

        • Mal Reynolds

          Saw this news yesterday. A Canuck in the reply section on the site said there are lead smelters in Canada. I Googled it and found three: General Smelting, Cominco Zinc & Lead Production and Metalex. I’m sure at least one of them would love to pick up Doe Run’s business.

          Pray for the employees at the company. Yet more people added to the roles of the suffering during the reign of Obummer.


      • Anonymous

        Obama-snot-ass really does want to turn our country into a police state. What a mother fucker! This is totally corrupt!

        What can be done about this? We have to outfox this bastard.

        • JustMe

          This began deacdes ago, all you see is the final play, led by a very willing player…

        • Farmer's Daughter

          All patriots in the nation need to dismiss themselves from work for a week and storm DC. It is time to take our country back. Start peacefully until they fire the first shot. All patriots need to do this to have any effect whatsoever.

      • JayJay

        Wow, that .22 Ruger Magnum Air Rifle still in the box in the closet(because I can’t even cock the danged thing) is looking better and better! 😉

        • CWinOR

          heheheh. I’ve got the exact same one! and yeah…they ARE hell to cock- but you’ll be amazed how potent it is at short range!

        • JustMe

          Napoleon Bonaparte banned air rifles…

      • The Old Coach

        CALM DOWN, y’all. Facilities in Mexico can supply all the primary lead we need. This isn’t optimum, but it’s no different from the situation with cast iron foundries, which all moved to Mexico after the EPA made it cost prohibitive to operate them here. We still get millions of iron engine blocks for our new cars, don’t we? Yes, yes we do. Been there, done that.

        • Nopittypartyhere

          Yeah, but what kind of import tariffs will the asswipes put on lead?

          • The Old Coach

            NAFTA will work in our favor for once.

      • Bird Dog

        There’s always ways to get around regulations. I would start with powdered tungsten mixed with latex in a metal jacket. Tungsten is twice as heavy as lead so would require half the qty to have a comparable weight.

        • MXLord327

          Yes, twice as heavy as lead but 20 times the price….


        Here’s your next Prep.


        This is an ordinary item. I sit in a boardroom and even on the train and have gotten this on planes. It’s basically like a prison shank.

        Purpose…self defense stabbing. Looks like a normal pen.
        Nice Xmas gift for your prepping wife who is down with it.

      • WhoWuddaThunkIt

        Hey Folks, There’s a Thousand Ways to skin a cat. Lead Poisoning just happens to be one efficient way, but leaves a noisy footprint. Patriots will never run out of this asset and cannot be controlled, nor banned and that plentiful asset is “Creativity.” Come n Git it!!

    2. Chris45

      Well no kidding. Anyone that buys ammo or reloads has felt the crunch from our Dear Leader way before Sandy Hook. The powers that be hate the fact we are armed and can resist. Buy what you can and as much as you can. NOW!!!

      • braveheart

        Ever since Dandy Hook, I’ve only found ammo at gun shows. There’s another gun show scheduled for Nov. 30-Dec. 1 in my area IF we make it that long.

        • braveheart

          I meant to say “Sandy Hook”. My mistake.

          • Unreconsructed Southron

            It was a Freudian slip…because it was a ‘dandy hook.’

        • z-71

          Brave, here in North Fl. Academy Sports shelves are stocked with most rifle and shotgun ammo, still 2 box limits per sale just no 22lr go figure the least lethal the most hard to find Plenty of 223 just no 22lr?

    3. Note from Idaho

      Five years ago if someone told me I couldn’t go to the local hardware store and buy a box of 22 long rifle ammo, I would have told them they are nuts.

      That is reality as of today.

      This simple example should warn everyone how our world has been “transformed” in a very short time.

      Question everything…

      • Jack Hammer

        It’s only going to get worse…MUCH WORSE before it’s “over”. Stay Frosty!

      • DPS

        Note From Idaho,

        If you know where to look you can still get 22 ammo. I was lucky and saw this coming a few yrs ago and bought deep in 22lr, this subject came up last yr sometime on SHTF plan. At that time I decided to listen to some of the oldtimers and order up the molds to make my own 22cal, 30 cal, and some other pistol rounds. It would be wise for all the preppers to buy up primers and powders even if they don’t reload. Most of the reloaders in this area are more then willing to help out others. As far as finding 22lr goes hit the gunbot site and ammo search sites and if that doesn’t work then you can always look up FaceBook groups in you area. Alot will disagree with the facebook thing but lets face we have all made many list just by posting here, Not sure about you But I’m Pride to be on those list it just means I am a American..


        • gone under

          Try: nickelsworth. Its like craigslist in ID but allows firearms.

      • grey fox

        If I may throw my 2 cents in this deal was reached over 2 yrs ago as a EPA settlement with the company. Doe Run actually has a secondary smelter that recycles batteries that would more than cover the need bullets in this country. A ton block of lead makes lots of bullets. Also a very small percentage of mined lead concentrate went to the primary smelter, they ship the bulk of it to China by barge and has for years. Get the money without the environmental red tape. Just saying its not good but not as bad as you might think.

    4. Outlaw

      This is what I was trying to say last article.

      • Outlaw

        And it pisses me off bad, we use to enjoy family outings at a “range” out in the country. My children were just coming of age to learn to shoot, and now we do not get to enjoy that family time, and they miss out on learning the skill and becoming familiar with our heritage. It is BS, when we will come together and stop this?

        • hammerhead

          yep , outlaw , thats exactly what i was gonna say.
          The idea here of course is to bring up a generation of kids that are not “attached” to firearms , if a kid grows up not involved in shooting sports then as an adult is more likely to not care about the right to own guns. or hunting rights for that matter, cuz thats next.
          Its all part of the plan .

          • Mr. Jonz

            Not only not attached, but pee-in-your-panties scared of anything that might go “bang.”

            • hammerhead

              You got it jonz , fear of firearms is acually promoted by some teachers in school .
              I get ill just lookin at some of my kids propaganda saturated homework studies .
              There really is a war on for the minds of our kids.

              • Northern Grower

                I too am deeply saddened by the state of things in our country. 30 years ago here in Nw WI most schools would close for the 9 day deer season- not so any longer. My youngest graduated this past spring and could not wait to get out. Most of her teachers spent most of their time pushing anti gun and liberal agenda you would have thought they worked for msnbc. And don’t expect an A for getting 100% correct, that was reserved for the kid who got 60% instead of their normal 50% so that they didn’t feel bad.(so much for striving to do better)

                Having a tough time selling plants and produce anymore,people under 40 rarely garden and people don’t buy veggies like a few years ago unless you leave some for self service- then they can steal like there is no tomorrow. Checked the produce stand after last weekend,40+ pumpkins and 100+ squash gone but only $32 and change in the pay box! Lots of pennies and scraps of paper though. Frustrating! Another nail in the coffin of a very tough growing season. Yet the farms will be the target when the masses are hungry.

                Thanks for letting me vent this is my 1st post.
                Northern Grower

                • wildman

                  Northern Grower i have family doing the same thing. they say everything disappears from the stand but no money. when asked whats going on the answer is always the same You got more than we do , You can afford it. Just wait the times will change an they will come beggin for food as the grocers cant get deliveries. I raise cattle, Lately we have had more an more buyers show up to try an get us to sell off more of the hears than i need to or want to, but they always want to get cheaper than the daily market posts. So now we have post this sign down by the road DONT BOTHER COMING UP HERE AS WE NO LONGER HAVE ANYTHING YOU WANT OR NEED, FAILURE TO HEED THIS POSTING WILL RESULT IN YOURE NEEDING HELP! wild man out

        • Jack Hammer

          “We, The People” will come together when the ObaMao Regime starts going after people enforce. When he sends the jack booted thugs to kick in our doors the word will spread quickly. Make a list of all politicians in your area and where they stand on following the Constitution. Know where they live. Make a list of all the police and their home addresses too. Those that attack and kill Americans won’t last long in the neighborhoods they live in. Once the criminal government starts the war, it’s on.
          Until then prepare, keep watch and Stay Frosty!

          • Out O' Time

            Right about the time the UN troops come to kick in your doors is when the internet goes dark. No communication and no one knows whats coming. An all out assault on every major metro area will take place all at once… The days seem to be getting shorter and D-day is looking ever closer…

            • Archangel

              You are probably correct about the timing of the internet blackout. Buy a Wouxan ham and shortwave radio….made in China but works well and only $100 on Ebay or Amazon. Communications is going to be critical. Who gives a shit about licensing when the sh*t hits the proverbial fan

              • The Old Coach

                It’ll probably have a spy chip in it that reports your transmissions direct to Beijing, (or NSA). They’re already doing that to the Russians.

              • Nimrod Hunter

                Well Archangel, you need to get some experience transmitting NOW. You cannot do that without an FCC license. Sure, if the world falls apart, you won’t be worrying about a government license. Until the SHTF, though, you need to be making contacts and getting some practice in on the airwaves.

            • Nimrod Hunter

              Get a HAM license and a repeater directory and at least two handheld transceivers.

              • Jack Hammer

                Agree 100%. We have two HAM radios and several GMRS/FRS radios, one CB radio, a full 14 band shortwave receiver with SSB, two spectrum-frequency-hopping encrypted radios and three VHF Marine handheld radios. Most have the batteries removed and are in Faraday Cage type metal containers. One thing to learn is Morse Code. The transmitter power is minimal for a very long distance.

                • Nimrod Hunter

                  Good for you, Jack Hammer. You are covered, for sure. And not only the power but the bandwidth for CW is very low.

          • braveheart

            Jack Hammer, when ANYONE comes to try to force their way into my home, it will be game on for me. When we start seeing foreign troops and DHS on our streets, IT HAS TO BE GAME ON! Once those foreigners and feds start dropping, there will be weapons, ammo, and other equipment laying there for the taking. I have no problem taking weapons, ammo, and other equipment from enemy corpses to help keep me in the fight.

            • Jack Hammer

              Braveheart, you are correct of course! We have rifles with mag carriers stashed around our habitat in 5.56 and 7.62×51 Nato. Also have several M1 Garands ready to go. We have armor piercing rounds for the M1 Garands to pierce the enemies armor vests. We have plate armor full coverage vests for several people as well as ear plugs and safety glasses staged around our habitat. We have a years worth of food for four people on hand and enough water on hand for a month without resupply. Meds on hand as well and enough gas masks and filters to equip a squad. Only two night vision devices on hand and the one thing I wish we had but don’t is a thermal imager. That’s next on my list of things to get before Obamageddon starts. Stay Frosty!

              • yental

                If I didn’t know better, and I don’t, I could easily make the assumption that you are “fishing” for OPSEC levels to be spilled by others on this site.

                If I am wrong, then sorta sorry. When someone is willing to post a personal supply/prep list, especially related to “defensive stockpiles” on an open forum…my radar alarms start ringing nonstop!

                • Jack Hammer

                  Can’t say that I blame you for the paranoia! Not to worry, I’m posting through TOR on a public WI-FI. I’ve seen a lot more than what I posted on hundreds of facebook posts! Now that is STUPID! I’m not fishing for anyone to spill their OPSEC. I’ll tone down my rants. Stay Frosty!

            • maddog

              FYI – Took my wife to lunch yesterday and as we drove by the social security office we noticed a white suv. Painted on the side in big letters “POLICE”. Just below that was dhs. I have been noticing a lot more government vehicles lately. Anyone else notice this?

              • waterislife

                have seen no less than 15 big rigs stopped by them this week alone. They seem to be everywhere lately.

                When we went to New Orleans in September DHS was openly patrolling the French Quarter.

              • Gopher

                Saw the same fleet vehicle twice last week. Collinsville, IL and St Louis, MO.

              • Tactical

                MD….I’ve heard such suv’s even though are marked as police/dhs but most if not all are all private security companies being hired by DHS to protect federal building. Only God knows who these hires are and what backgrounds they have. about 5 weeks ago I had to take my dad to SS office. I didn’t see any suv but to be honest with you the armed security guard at the entrance was a rude SOB. The way he was asking questions to guide the people to the right window was like a freaking first degree police QA. As I was sitting and waiting, I thought…what really happened to our country. Why we have to fear our own security officials carrying guns who supposedly are in charge of protecting law abiding citizens. So many whys these days and it makes me sick to think about the evil behind all of these crap. Sad days indeed. Sorry I didn’t want to extend your short question into a depressing comment.

                • maddog

                  Its ok. Thanks for all the info everyone. We may need to set up a place where we can update each other on any escalations. Any ideas?

              • Jack Hammer

                Where I live I’ve seen many Homeland Security marked SUV’s. The damn things are everywhere.

        • Kulafarmer

          The washington masters will say to your post that you should instead volunteer at a homeless shelter or mooslam wherever they worship place as a family instead, that way you penefit the collective!
          It sucks,
          I used to take my girlfriend and shoot 22s and have a good time plus she got some confidence with guns, cheaper and not as intimidating,
          Oh well, guess i have to push the AR and taurus 9mm on her instead its just not the same,
          TPTB are lame and need to be shown the door and a swift kick.
          A collapse cant come fast enough, sick of this death by a thousand pin pricks crap.

          • CWinOR

            Kula- have you considered a .22LR conversion kit for your AR? If you can still get .22LR there- it’s sure a ton cheaper than 5.56/.223! AND, you still get the practice you need on the AR platform. It’s on my “to-buy” list….just haven’t gotten quite there yet.


          • Professor Higgins

            Kulafarmer: You backwoods American bumpkin; it’s death by a thousand cuts, not a thousand pin pricks. I just love showing my friends back home, not only how illiterate most Yanks are, but also what a bunch of phony Christians most them are as well. Even good secular folks enjoy helping out at shelters and kitchens that serve those who are down. Since coming to America I have noticed that a lot of the clients at these places are the “honored” veterans you pay lip services to. Many have suffered severe physical and/or emotional trauma but all you see is some bum wander the street. In this dog-eat-dog society of yours, since these folks are no longer ‘productive’ members of society, they are now treated as useless garbage. While I’m no longer a Christian, I still take Matthew 25:31-46 to heart which is more than I can say for most of the phonies here. The thumbs down will come from those that are pricked deepest because I’ve exposed their Christian hypocrisy. And please, you and the other phonies, spare me your pathetic rationalizations because they only confirm your selfish, hardhearted guilt.

            • Gopher

              Professor Higgins, you Elitist British prick; no one cares what the quote is. If you spent anytime at all here you would realize that people often take license with quotes. My suggestion is you pack up your snooty attitude and phoney charity, and move back to your friends. I’m sure you can amuse them for years, with tales of the bumpkins you encountered. Oh yeah, take Piers with ya! Good riddance to bad rubbish. Did I get it right?

              • Tactical

                Gopher, I think this Professor Higgins SHIT HEAD.. is actually Pierce Morgan. Pierce, if that’s you what the hell are doing here? You must be going down on your queen at this hour.

                • braveheart

                  Tactical, I wouldn’t be surprised if Higgins was related to Morgan. They’re both POS bloody limeys.

            • Jack Hammer

              WTF are you braying on about?

            • gone under

              Did you know London has the most surveilance cameras anywhere in the whole world. Nosey Fags arnt they.

            • M

              When the maunder minimum hits europe. Just remember to fuck right off and stay there.
              You and all the gunhating eurotrash will not be welcomed in america.

              The rest of ya’ll stand up freedom loving euro folks will be welcomed )

            • Professor Higgins

              Gopher: That’s a rather catchy little handle you have; that of a filthy, nearsighted, subterranean rodent, but apropos I’m sure. You still don’t get it do you, you and the rest of the ‘great-unwashed’ American public. We, and by we I mean the rest of the educated world, have been moving slowly, but inexorably, working to bring this nation of savages into the modern world. Part of the plan are the international scholarships such as Rhodes and Fulbright to name a few. These have allowed thousands of American to get a better understanding of European ways and for Europeans and others to get a taste of America. And why is do you suppose that most of your math, science, political science, and philosophy professors are foreign born. This is by design you little fool. But I’m sure this is shocking news to you since you’ve never set foot on a college campus unless you were part of the janitorial or maintenance staff. It is by design that we’ve taken over all of you institutions of higher learning. But it doesn’t stop there my furry little friend. We’ve also infiltrated most government offices and many industries as well. Your best and brightest are now ours as well. So I plan to stay here for a while longer to help see this through to its inevitable conclusion. Once we have America tamed, the rest of the world will easily follow.

              • braveheart

                Well, well, well; Professor Higgins, the “educated” troll, returns. Listen up VERY CAREFULLY you bloody limey. If I ever catch you attempting to harm any American, you will be signing your own death warrant. I’ll personally take you out of this world and won’t shed one bloody tear over your loss.

                • Professor higgins

                  Braveheart: Who on earth ever said anything about harming anyone, except you of course? We’ve come so far by ‘educating’ the best and brightest of you Americans. THEY will be the ones that will do what is necessary to bring the masses of the great unwashed, you for instance, into the modern western world. And they will do it as heads of government, business, and major universities. You will have universal health care like the rest of us, you will eventually have greater gun restrictions, especially all military style weapons, and finally registration. This will all come about because the progressives are going to win big in 2014 thanks to your Tea Party’s last fiscal fiasco. After the dust settles, your best and brightest will consolidate their positions by taking firm control of the WH and both houses of Congress in 2016. By then your Tea Party/Patriot/Prepper movement will have lost its way and slowly fade into the woodwork. So enjoy your rage, because you’ve have about 1 year left. Tah tah old boy!

              • skeptic

                I’m curious that there is not much response to this.

                • Night breaker

                  It does not dignify a response , let them think it will be easy .
                  They could not even control Northern Ireland , let alone try North America.

                  Faugh A Ballagh!


                  RESIST NO MATTER WHAT


                  Semper Fi 8541

        • braveheart

          Outlaw, since Feb. I’ve been practicing in my backyard on the weekends with a Crosman .177 pellet pistol. the pellets and CO2 Cartridges are still in good supply for now, but I’m getting some more over the weekend. Haven’t been to the range since Feb. I’m saving my ammo for the war that we all know is coming.

            • The Old Coach

              No difference legally.

            • Unreconsructed Southron

              Yes. And No. A pellet gun is better. All this is for is making noise. And getting killed by a guy with a real one. Or a pellet gun.

              • sixpack

                My question was founded on the fact that they make blanks that fire in REAL GUNS, along with real bullets…so would a gun that fires those blanks also fire REAL BULLETS if one were to put in one?

                • slingshot


                  There are guns made only for blanks. There are real weapons that can shoot blanks with adapters. To be removed when they use live ammo. Some blanks have a wad that would exit the barrel when shot.

            • Paranoid

              Some blank guns have no borehole just a vent, they cannot be shot. Some blanks have a flash powder that would blow your gun to smithereens if it had a slug in front. DON’T DO IT!

              • sixpack

                Thanks P. That’s what I wanted to know, if there was anything mechanically different between the two that a few minutes in a machine shop couldn’t fix.

                Must’ve been dreamin’.

                • sixpack

                  I’ve never seen the blank shooters, I didn’t know how they are built. Thanks 2 All

        • Mountain Trekker

          Outlaw, thats part of their goal. They have been working on destroying our heritage for a long time, that way they can shape us into what they want. Big Brother is slowly but surely tightening the noose, and the water in the pot is getting hotter and hotter. Can you feel it yet! They don’t want you having outtings with your family when it involves the Gun Culture. Ain’t sure how we stop this. Anyone remember Tito, I think he was an Italian? Trekker Out. Freedom Ain’t Free!

          • Anonymous

            Marshal Tito of the Yugoslavian resistance or Tito Ortiz of the UFC?

            • Mountain Trekker

              Thanks Anonymous your correction is appreciated, somtetimes my writing over rides my intelligence. Benito Mussollini was who I was thinking of when I wrote Tito I meant Benito. Read his biography, it sounds like someone I know. And maybe his end results will be the same. Just a thought. Trekker Out.

          • AZClimber

            They’re trying to helps us refresh our heritage. It ain’t shooting at the range, our heritage is shooting at goons.

        • stu johnson

          I just had a thought, with all the gun owners in this country we could all pay just a little and get that EPA upgrade for Doe Run. I have no idea how to organize that and may be its just a pipe dream. NRA where are you?
          I suppose I will have to get some more ammo.
          Working full time and a part time job and its damn hard to save any cash at all now, this is gonna hurt.
          For people like me, lead IS like gold.

          • Hammerun

            Damn, that’s a good idea, really is. Just as long as they agree not to sell any to the gubment.

          • Archangel

            I thought the same thing. NRA, GOA, NAGR, and many other Organizations would be the logical place to start

          • Hammerun

            That is a brilliant idea! That could be done so easily right now with all of the forms of media. I’d do a hundo without even thinking twice.
            Mac, look at this!
            You’ve got the readers. The NRA, ARA, gun owners of all kinds, shit this would go!!!
            Get ahold of Doe Run and see what they think. See if they want to offer shares in the company or incentives, this is crazy it’d work.

          • Kulafarmer

            Maybe try to contact the owners? Sarge Dale i think said he knows the area, maybe he has some insight? Between Mac and all of us, and perhaps putting a shout out to shooting clubs etc???
            Maybe rather than shut down they could do a lead boutique of sorts that caters to shooting sports and the fishing industry?
            Good idea bud

      • Anonymous

        Does it realy matter…. how many nuke plants do we have.

      • you don't need to know

        Thanks for posting that Satori, don’t have cable and figured I had gotten enough insite from everyone here. But I’ll enjoy watching it anyway…=)

    5. me

      a person can still make black powder and load the old front stuffer with glass or pebbles for self protection in future yrs..

      • Jack Hammer

        True but how many people have the knowledge? As important as food, water, guns, ammo and meds are so is knowledge. Get your books in order and learn while you can. A good Ebook reader would be nice to store thousands of ebooks on but it is susceptible to a EMP or CME. Stay Frosty!

        • me

          all people will not need the knowledge or ever get it, after all the dust is settled in a few yrs and the survivors get it in their heads that we’ve been set back 140 yrs, there will be people like myself or my sons in every town who will have the skills to produce what people need or at least show them how to do things pre 1900 for payment is silver of coarse.the country will probably get started again just the way it did before, I just hope the survivors can remember how we got here.
          the hardest thing for people to get in their heads is that the computer age is over for them for a long time and they’ll have to fill their hands with a shovel or some other tool if they expect to survive.
          I still do most things the way my parents taught me to do them in the 40s.. when someone talks to me, they’re talking to me, not me and an Ipod or cell ph.

          • wildman

            ME that is so true! when the SHTF we will be the only ones who havent fallen under the iphone with all the apps to show you how to live spell. i am amazed how they can check that phone 500 times a day and get anything done. if i checked my phone that much i would be nuts( or maybe i already am an dont know it!) i believe after the crash and the thinning of the herd, we will be a whole alot better off! someone will figure out how to get the power back on an the refineries back running. life will return to normal but till then YOU ARE ON YOUR OWN , KEEP YOUR POWDER DRY,LOCKED AN LOADED, PREPS WELL STOCKED cause this isnt far off. obama is treating the goverment as a shiny new toy just seeing how far he can push us before it all blows up! time for strawberry wheat beer wildman out

      • jerrytbg

        Seems to me the solution is quite simple…switch to steel.
        Stainless, so it’s stains less in storage.

        And frankly I’m surprised no one has mentioned it cause in all reality it wouldn’t be that difficult to tool up…
        Don’t the Russians use steel?

        • Calgacus

          The melt point is hard to achieve w/ steel.

          • jerrytbg

            I fully understand it requires higher temps…not my point because it IS obvious…
            So I’ll say it again,not difficult for some manufacture to do….
            Is it possible…they want us shooting steel?…nah

        • Paranoid

          The Russians use steel cases NOT bullets, steel works very badly for bullets. It’s less dense so it flies much worse, it melts at a temp that’s so high it takes Much more expensive and higher tech, and it ruins the Barrel very quickly.

          • jerrytbg

            Barrel wear is also a given…and I stand corrected, the Russian ammo I was refering to is steel “core” not copper jacketed steel…truth is I’m embarrassed I didn’t know that already…heh (rolls eyes).

            • slingshot

              On the subject of Russian/Chinese ammo.

              Most Russian ammo 7.62×39 is a full metal copper jacket, boat tail, lead core at 122 to 124 grs bullet.
              You will find 7.62×39 in Hollow point, Full metal jacket and soft point. The cases are steel with some having lacquer coat, a powder type coat and copper wash.
              Russian and Chinese Steel Core are Not Armor Piercing. They are Steel Core. The core must be tungsten or be a harder metal to be AP. Will it go through plates of 5/16ths? Sure will. Steel core does not wear any barrel out faster than any other bullet. The copper jacket touches the lands, not the steel. Some barrels are chrome flashed and helps with wear and corrosion.

              • jerrytbg

                Thanks sling…and with all of that…I still prefer my .308 & 30.06…deadly out to 500 and will wound at 800.

                Not that anybody will come back and read this…but for the record…

    6. Warchild

      Keep buying what you need/think you need while you can.Do not buy more then planned plus a little extra,leave some on the shelf for next customer.The more ammo dispersed among the people of this country,the better!Plan/prep for tomorrow,enjoy today.Side note:Eppe,still trying to cross lines with you when you have a chance.

      • ocrapcare

        There was a man from France,
        Always in an inventors trance,
        He worked at a fishing lure company.
        that was named “mepps”

        He approched the big dogs,
        and pitched them a log,
        they needed 100mbps speed,
        so they hooked up with (@comcast)

        He was a great fisher,
        never was a wisher,
        he caught many a fish
        and he never used a

        • ocrapcare


      • eppe

        read between the lines
        caught up in the twines
        see what you see
        what you see is me
        if you cannot see
        then you are not to be
        if you figure this out
        then you can make a route
        if this does not make sense
        all is lost thus hence
        I hope that we can connect
        if not then all is lost?

    7. watching and waiting

      Going to cut down on range time but now is the time to
      store and hold for a bad guy moment or a SHTF DAY.

      So, will knives and machetes become the new HD weapons and the new target for Blade Control?

      • Jack Hammer

        No doubt you are on target. The U.K. and other Regimes have already made blades illegal. Even baseball bats have become illegal in some cities. Stay Frosty!

      • sixpack

        I’ve got a nice blade or two, as well as other different means of personal security. Just like you should never put all of your eggs in one basket, never put all your faith in only one personal protection device. A hole in your heart, is a hole in your heart, whether it’s made with a rifle, spear gun or bayonet or scissors (although distance is preferred)

    8. Deadshane

      How long until the people say enough is enough?

      I am an LEO and even OUR supply lines have been cut. I havent been able to get practice ammo for months now. I was getting two boxes a month, then they cut it down to only one because of supply problems, now they only have ammo to qualify new recruits.

      Good thing I was stockpiling all of that stuff. Sitting on 1500rds of 9mm to go with my meager 200rds of .357.

      Something has GOT to happen soon. When they call on me to come in/suit up and go control the mass rioting, I’ll be calling in sick that day.

      Good job, and I’ll do my job,(which is NOT patrolling the streets) but I’m not going to help the establishment maintain control of the populace when they revolt against an oppressive government.

      • Warchild

        Dead,have read a few articles that a quality airsoft gun can help with skills and keep up skills.I realize not the same as a firearm but was wondering yours and others thoughts on whether even worthwhile or not,have a good weekend all(hopefully!).

      • Jack Hammer

        I commend you for your honor and integrity to the Constitution. I do hope you JOIN us in taking back our country when the time comes. I highly suggest you NOT wear your police uniform or drive around in a police vehicle when the SHTF. Those in uniform will be targets.
        Stay Frosty!

      • Swordsmyth

        I thank God for LEO’s like you who stand for the truth in these dark days.

        I hope and pray your numbers are legion when this all comes to fruition!

        Peace and blessings….

      • Kulafarmer

        Thanks for speaking up, we need to hear this, i think lots of folks need the support of local LE rather than worrying that they are the enemy!
        Me included.

      • oregun

        God Bless, DeadShane:

        I’m curious about how many of your fellow LEO’s see things the same way you do?

      • CWinOR

        Good to know there’s still some of you LEO’s working FOR the people! Sad to admit (especially since I almost was one twice) I’ve lost ALOT of confidence and respect for LEO’s in the last few years.

      • snake eater

        hell I would hope you would be in the riot with us,,,,,,


        • Sgt. Dale

          Just look for a guy about 600 tall 225 Lbs. balding Hzl eyes, wearing a baseball cap with an American flag and a Rebel flag on it. Carrying a H&K USP 45. Ask him if his name is Dale. You might be surprised I might be standing with HONOR by your side.

      • Sgt. Dale

        I to am a LEO. I agree how soon will the people say enough is enough. I’m so sick of see other leo’s over stepping their powers. I can only do so much, before I’m up against a Lt. with more power. If people would just stand up and start pushing back things would change and change fast. The Obamites. will find out just how many Good LEO’s there are.
        as far as your 357 mags, see if you can find 38’s.

        • Warchild

          Sarge,despite my long hair/motorcycle riding/wild eyed rock n roll lifestyle have some friends who are cops who are also good people and have no patience with those who abuse their service to the community.One was CHP when that a group of CHP got busted selling millions in pot,he left and became a small town deputy.His philosophy is if what you do doesn’t bring or potentially bring harm to community he figures non of his business.He is much happier in small town area and says tire changes are his usual day if things go well.He will not in anyway harm those in his area whatever the orders are from higher up,hope there are many like him and my other friends in LE.

        • DPS

          Sgt Dale and DeadShane,

          You two men maybe the only 2 LEO’s I would help out in a crunch. Its good to know that some of leo’s see whats coming. If you men are ever in TX and need some 357 loaded up just look me up and save all that brass.. I have said it for a couple of yrs now for all the shooters to save brass and buy powders and primers every chance you get. Those reloading supplies just might be worth their weight in gold very soon. As far as lead goes well thats easy to find.


        • Kulafarmer

          Sarge, im hoping that most of the mature LEOs feel the way you guys do, i will throw 100% support behind you guys, who knows, maybe they will look at guys like me as part of the plan rather than in the way, it hasnt been a real clear cut thing, especially with the propaganda some of these alternative sites spout, yes the alternative media is just as guilty of using bullshit as the MSM (JMHO)
          Guess we shall see eh!

          • Sgt. Dale

            To all you good folks on this site. There are more than 2 or 3 of us GOOD Cops out here. A little secret. DON’T BE AFRAID OF US WE PUT OUR PANTS ON THE SAME WAY YOU DO. GET TO KNOW THE GUYS IN YOUR AREA. You are going to find that we are long to find good people to talk to and become friends with. It takes a while to take are guard down but when we do you have a friend for life.
            Warchild, DPS, Snake, CWin, Oregun, Jack, Nim, Bravehearst, Singshot, Sixpack, and Kula. Just to name a few. I would love to set Down with you folks and break bread. It would be an honor.
            God Bless!!!
            Aim Small Miss Small!!

            • sixpack


              I come from a military family, with some LEOs sprinkled in for good measure. There was a County Sheriff in my family and before that a U.S. Marshal, back when they rode horses and carried colts. Before that, I had family in Confederate militias. I too, served my time in the military.

              That said, for me, it isn’t like I despise anyone in a uniform, I don’t. But I WISH more LEOs were of your mindset, but I haven’t met more than one or two that seemed to be. Unfortunately, today it is the oath breakers that leave the most lasting impressions on people who don’t otherwise know better.

              I think the difference is that now there are more laws to run afoul of, and more otherwise good people who do…and I shouldn’t need to remind you of how most LEOs generally treat people who ran afoul of the system. (I’m not talking about thugs and career criminals here).

              In order to fix these perceptions, we’ll need to return to the good old days, when you actually had to hurt somebody, or their rightful property to be guilty of a crime. You were responsible for your actions and, YOUR rights only stopped where they infringed on the rights of another.

              We’re NOT a nation of “laws” anymore. We’re a nation of control by legal prosecution.

              …and now, GOOD PEOPLE are in the system’s cross hairs.

              Will we treat our family and/or friends like criminals, when they are convicted of felonies for refusing to turn in their guns or obey unconstitutional “laws”? Will we cheer when one of our newly criminalized friends gets beaten up by some cop, just because he has a criminal record, making him technically a “criminal”?

              That’s where we are today. Just because they voted to make it a law (without our consent), doesn’t mean it’s RIGHT or JUST.

              We have a DUTY to disregard unjust laws, but in this society, that makes us outlaws and criminals.

              Today it is “Them” being dehumanized…tomorrow it might be “Us”.

            • Warchild

              Sarge,you and rest of forum(even Joe!)in either in north lands of New England or in Boston area when I am working there welcome for a dinner.Though not the best cook do cook good amounts and try and keep it healthy.The venison may not be on menu as when hunting Friday saw a great Blue Heron hunting fish,laid down bow and watched heron hunt for a hour(trying to learn about patience/quickness,good luck with that!),told a friend and he said sounds like a good day hunting,couldn’t agree more!Live/enjoy today,prep for tomorrow.

              • Sgt. Dale

                If I ever get to your location I would be honored to break bread with you. I’ll bring the venison.
                A day hunting is always a good day.
                Aim Small Miss Small

      • Nimrod Hunter

        My nephew is a GS-14 for a Border Patrol Sector. He can’t say a lot, but he does say that they can’t even get gasoline enough for their cars and trucks. They are busted back, in some cases, to using “four-wheelers” for patrols.
        Some of them are buying gas out of their own pockets.
        I suspect the government is trying to hamstring them so they can’t even perform that part of their jobs that IS still uncontested by the courts and immigration groups.

      • Christian Man

        Enough of the false flag events!

      • yental

        Another “new handle” disclosing supposed ammunition supplies. We either have some ignorant posters, or “fishing trolls”.

        Am I the only one to notice this? This site commentary is becoming topic specifically(guns/ammo) “interesting”!

        Even the worst poker player will not reveal “the hand” prior to ALL BETS BEING PLACED and the time to reveal EVERYONE’S cards is at hand.

        Call me paranoid…for good reason.

        • Archivist

          I have a pitchfork.

          • sixpack

            I’ve got a spork…and I know how to use it.

      • me

        I live about 1/2 mile from our town Fish and Game hunting club, up unti last year, from the end of the spring turkey hunting season to about the time school started in Sept, people were over there shooting daily.. this yr, I don’t believe we’ve heard ten shots and they were black powder, of coarse, I live in a Liberal town where 95% of the people work for the state, county or the town and no one can see the train is leaving the tracks.

      • durango kidd

        Deadshane: What WE need now from LEO’s like you, is to quietly identify like-minded LEO brother and sisters, and all of you, all across the nation, engage your fraternal organizations.

        You are OUR fathers, brother, sisters, and mothers. You, current military, and all veteran’s must stand between the people and the NWO when that order comes down to confiscate guns (illegally) OUR men and women in uniform must say:

        “No, that is unconstitutional and WE are sworn to protect and defend the constitution from all enemies foreign and domestic.”

        At that point you must arrest the offending official(s) who issued the order. The People will support LEOS with that mind set like they have supported Snowden.

        2015 is the magic year because the Left wants to legalize their tyranny by law next year by controlling both houses of Congress. Failing to control both houses, O’bummer may get froggie and see whether he can get away with an Executive Order for confiscation after another horrendous False Flag Attack.

        Meeting resistance and maybe civil war, he might then relent, resign, and get a full pardon from Joe, his bother from the other mother. Joe can then repudiate O’Bummer’s administration by moving his own toward the middle when he runs for POTUS. O’Bummer then goes “scott free.” pun intended.

        Americans must resist gun confiscation, O’bummer Care, and Illegal Amnesty or WE will find this nation completely and utterly destroyed. WE must replace Free Trade with Fair Trade. If not US, who? If not now, when?

        Engage. WE are all Seal Team America. 🙂

    9. waterislife

      I’m thinking it’s time to start looking at investing in a compound bow and a store of arrows as well.

      • Warchild

        Water,always time for a compound bow!I also recommend a nice crossbow when funds permit!I have a ripcord drop rest on my bow,greatly helped with my targeting.The nice things about bows is they are quite,can be used without problems that many areas would have issue with firearms,hopefully am going bow hunting this afternoon!

        • Canadian Vet

          I’m personally much more partial to traditional bows. Yes, they require more effort to get to full draw and the window of time you have to fine-tune your aim is much narrower but on the other hand you don’t have a complex system of limbs, cams, pulleys and string that can go wrong.

          You have your stave and your string. Period. While I’m not overly fond of fibreglass as a bow material, there are perfectly good laminates available out there, or even traditional wooden bows. Myself, if I had the means, I would acquire a traditional horn and sinew bow made either by Kassai or Grozer or an English-style yew bow, if only for ease of use, durability and reliability.

          Also, I would venture compound bows aren’t exactly friendly to traditional arrows. Wooden arrows can be made by hand and while less durable than carbon fibre or aluminium, you can fairly easily salvage your arrowhead and even your (natural) fletching and even the thread used to tie it to the shaft. You can even repair broken arrows using a process called footing in which you whittle down the tip end of the broken shaft to a flat point and notch the fletching half to receive the sharpened end, bond them with some good glue and that shaft can still be shot a few times.

          A modern arrow, though, good luck fixing a busted one, beyond screwing in a new nock, replacing fletching or changing the arrowhead.

          • Warchild

            To each their own,am fond of old school items i.e. firearms/cars/scoots ect.I enjoy my black powder stuff,that said,love my compound bow and will not trade it for a long bow.No reason I could not add a long bow to my stuff but would definetly be behind many other items want first that have more fun and survival value to me.

          • Eisenkreuz

            The modern compound bow is very reliable and easy to maintain. I dont think your concerns are founded.

            • Canadian Vet

              But even you can’t deny that the more moving parts are involved, the more likely something will quit at the worst possible time. And compound bows require tuning and that is easy to screw up. A traditional bow, on the other hand, has only 2 parts, 4 if you have horn/antler/etc nocks. Granted you have to hold the full draw weight the whole time unlike the let-off of a compound, but I can guarantee you I can get a second shaft downrange and on target a lot faster with my horsebow than you with your compound.

              • Eisenkreuz

                I do have my grandfathers antique longbow but I think Im much more accurate with the compound because the tension in your fingers introduces wobble.

            • Warchild

              Eisen,assuming one has a press how hard to restring a compound,a skill so far have not learned.

      • InsanityISContagious

        I particularly am partial to the arrows that Rambo carried…the ones that go b–o–o–m. Those were sweet!

        • Warchild

          Insanity,would you ship me a few?!

          • InsanityISContagious

            sure!!…we’ll say they’re…hmmmm…pine cones…that’s it — pine cones — hehe.

      • Nebraska

        got mine last week 🙂

      • Kulafarmer

        Just a thought here,
        I have a compound and a bunch of stock to make carbon fiber arrows, and bought a wad of broadheads, but what to do if it runs out? Your not shooting a wooden shaft arrow from a compound bow! Not unless you really want to be pulling huge splinters from your hand and forearm!
        A bud of mine has been getting into traditional bow hunting,
        The interesting thing about that is the ability to make the arrows, strings, bows, and tips, he started out full traditional long bow even using stone tips, a bit too traditional, but proved its quite possible. now hes making broadheads, using basic stuff to make them, i think blades are thin stainless sheetmetal and he is epoxying them together and onto the shafts, i kind of like it because you could easily make hundreds of tips and shafts then assemble and fletch them as needed, the epoxy lasts for years, as the arrows get damaged you can trim them and reattach tips etc, maybe have shorter bows for other family members? Is something to look at,
        Not ideal but hey, way better than having NOTHING for protection, hunting or maybe fishing!

        • Canadian Vet

          In another comment I mentioned traditional bows. I for one think compound bows have far too many moving parts that can go screwy on you and prefer the traditional kind. If I had the money, you can bet I would upgrade to a yew longbow or a Hungarian horn and sinew bow.

        • Archivist

          I have been salvaging possibly useful parts from inkjet printers for a long time. All I have seen have at least one solid stainless steel rod for the cartridge to ride on. I’ve been thinking that, with one end sharpened, they would make wicked projectiles. I don’t know if they would fit a crossbow, or if a crossbow could be built to use those rods as bolts.

          Is that something to pursue, or is there some better use for the rods, such as a 3D printer?

          The Archivist also archives hardware of all types.

      • wildman

        waterislife I have purchased a crossbow an wowee its impressive, shoots right thru 3/4 ply like nothin so if it was me try lookin at em BTW midway has em onsale for 200 for 1 that shoots 290fps ( thats what i got) ITS IMPRESSIVE wildman out

    10. Ugly Truth

      So what exactly is the issue? That the feds are regulating lead and its affecting bullet production now? Because I know quite a few battery factories where I’m located. And you can’t tell me that an investor or investors don’t see the potential gold mine here? Yep…somethings rotten in Denmark! Now I’m a believer. Geez…

    11. CrabbeNebulae

      The price and availability of ammo changes with the wind but prices have come down considerably and it is quite available, depending on where you buy it from. However, better git it while the gitten is good. Current Cheaper Than Dirt (CTD) sampling…

      7.62×51 1000 case $742.33
      7.62x54R 440 spam can $89.79
      5.56 62gr 2000 round case $943.00
      7.62×39 640 round spam can $159.59
      .45 ACP 250 round case $109.59
      9mm 1000 case $405.88

      various amounts various prices. And… no I don’t work for CTD.

      • Warchild

        Crabbe,will say at moment have seen ammo creeping back also on store shelves.Big box store had plenty of 69 grain .223 brass,was surprised to see and meet a old friend!

      • Archangel

        CTD is still WAY HIGH on most Ammo…

        IMO…..there is NOTHING Cheap about Cheaper than Dirt anymore (they lost me after Sandy Hook)

        These are the prices that I’ve been seeing lately:

        This is all NEW AMMO (not reloads), COMMERCIAL BRANDS, BRASS Casings and FMJ:

        308 /7.62×51 can be had for .60/rnd (Prvi Partisan or PMC)
        5.56 and .223 can be had for .39/rnd (Federal Green Tip)
        9mm can be had for .30/rnd (Multiple Brands)

        …..Just to name a few.

        I don’t shoot anything Eastern Block (Russian), so don’t know what it is currently selling for, but I have found great deals at SG Ammo, and a few other places on the web and when you look at shipping it isn’t much from some companies. I consider shipping into my cost per round before buying

      • Another option

        I have been buying lately from Freedom Munitions as their prices are lower than most other places and all assembly takes place in the US.

        If memory serves me, I believe they are a division of Ammoload which makes high volume ammo loading machines. They are utilizing their own technology to provide ammo.

        Back before the Sandy Hook shooting I was looking into a possible business manufacturing ammo. Luckily I didn’t jump off too quickly because after Sandy Hook I would have been left with loading equipment with no parts to manufacture.

        Check them out, just saying …

        • DRD5508

          Thanks Another. Checked it out and you are right.

      • wildman

        Crabbe check out atlantic firearms, they beat the livin hell out of CTD 7.62×39 1000 rnds 329. plus free shipping. this was last friday i was on there. they also sell ar rifles a whole cheaper than anyone or anything else you want. wildman out

    12. Aeneid

      Anticipate that soon will the price of bullet casting supplies will go up. Make sure you have the molds and handles for your calibers. Gather and keep any tire balancing weights you may get your hands on, and any other source of lead based material that you could melt and pour.

      • Jack Hammer

        Excellent info sir! Will start stock piling those now! Stay Frosty!

      • level6

        just go to your local plumbing supply and buy lead ingots. you can get them for 30 bucks for 50lbs and easily melt them down with a large tip propane torch.

      • Stew Pedaso

        Good trading item too. collect those weights but protect yourself, make a thick wooden box and keep them out of the house…trade them to people who can use them for items or ammo you need.

      • Archangel

        Save lead batteries and burned out Incandescent Light bulbs too. Tungsten will be very valuable in so many ways. LOL

        • DPS


          Be very careful if you are melting down those old batteries. They have to be cleaned very well before any attempts to melt them. And if you are thinking about getting some molds order them now!! I got mine last yr when the ammo crunch hit and it still took 2 months due to high demand.


          • The Old Coach

            I’m going to post this again. DO NOT MESS WITH MELTING DOWN BATTERIES. Battery lead is alloyed with calcium and arsenic. These elements will come out in the dross. If the dross is exposed to moisture, you get two very lethal gases, stibene, and arsine. One good whiff of either one will kill you DRT, (Dead Right There), and no reboot to try it again.

            Aside from that little glitch, lead with calcium in it doesn’t make very good bullets.

            This advice is coming from a long-time bullet caster – – ME.

            • Archivist

              So we “donate” the old batteries to our enemies?

              • The Old Coach

                If you can convince ’em to melt ’em down and breathe the fumes from the dross, sure !

                My opinion is just sell ’em to a recycler. I get $12 for a car-size battery locally. That same company Doe Run recycles batteries for the lead. It’s possible to do it on an industrial scale while extracting the calcium and arsenic to get clean lead. Although I’d expect that they just “top up” the alloy to sell to battery manufacturers.

                BTW here’s a commercial source for virgin lead: Not cheap, but it’s known alloy, which scrap never is.

                Some of us mine the berms at shooting ranges, too.

                While you’re at the scrapyard, keep an eye out for old X-ray shielding, sailboat keels, lead pipe and flashing, that sort of thing. Back here in the East that stuff does show up from time to time.

              • Canadian Vet

                Perhaps work in a well-ventilated area or outdoors, wearing a respirator or perhaps an actual gas mask with a live canister installed?

                And while I’m not familiar with the properties of the by products involved here, perhaps storing them in oil, much like solid sodium or potassium, could be a viable option?

            • DPS

              Old Coach,

              Now I remember who told me about batteries for let. It was you Sir, And thank you. Sometime if you get a chance could you post that site about casting bullets? I had to computers crash over the last week and lost alot of info. Of course 1 of those had to die by my own hand ( I hated that laptop).


          • Hunter

            Who do you recommend(mfgr)? Am leaning towards ‘Lee’…opinion, sir?

            Thanks beforehand.

            • DPS


              I went with the Lee molds and the Lee loading equip. So far had really good luck with it all. For what it was going to cost for the Dillion press I got all the dies,scale,press and case trimmers plus alot of the supplies it takes to load with.


            • The Old Coach

              Lee moulds are aluminum, and can be a royal PITA at times, especially when new. I have some, but I much prefer cast iron or brass moulds. Lyman and RCBS are cast iron. They cost more, but work better and are nowhere near as easily damaged.

              By far the best site for learning bullet casting is That site will keep you busy for weeks.

              Look also at

              Lurk there for six months or so. Read the stickys. (That alone will take a month or more.) Be polite, it’s a family site; moderators will not tolerate hard words or asinine behavior.

        • Paranoid

          Forget the burned out light bulbs. Even during WW-II they rarely collected them. Look closely they are a spring kind of wrap, very tiny. The amount of Tungsten is VERY small. For the individual it’s useless, and collecting a pound of metal would take far far more effort than it’s worth.

    13. w69

      Shooting LAX going right now. Possible false flag. Or could be just another person going off the deep end which we will be seeing increasing more and more in the days to come.

      • caliber

        shootings happen. just like car accidents happen. everyday.. the difference is that the MSM will constantly report any shooting(even if nobody is killed) except black on black shootings, but they don’t report many car accidents.

        its just propaganda, which in a way, is a false flag.

      • buttcrackofdoom

        what better excuse to go ahead and arm the TSA….CNBS just said they aren’t armed….

      • possee

        It’s supposedly an off duty TSA agent on a rampage.

        who is now “neutralized”…

        Time will tell..

      • Buck

        Can someone out there please take the bull by the horns and lets get this thing started!!! I am not a general but I’m a good 1st Sargent ,it’s time for a general to step up and start with a notice to arms against the tyranny that runs our country….. Ask for volunteers and then let’s move and resolve this mess of a government and do what our forefathers did….any takers??? I’ll be the 1st volunteer,I am so sick of this shit,,,,,

        • Canadian Vet

          Buck, my rank equivalency is somewhere between E-5 and E-6 and I hear you. There is a need for some senior leadership to step up. As First Sergeant, I guess you would be a platoon/troop sgt? We both have flexed some leadership muscle in our time but I agree we need someone better suited for the overall command. Even a good battalion (I guess what you’d refer to as a regiment) commander would be a good place to start.

          But I wouldn’t count in your staff and flag officers to step up to that plate. Seems to me they are all politically-driven Obama-mandated appointments. If anything, you should look to unit commanders, your majors, Lcol’s and Colonels as well as your Sergeant-Majors. In fact, I’d think a good RSM would make a better overall commander than a lot of the officers I’ve seen. Hell, coming back from Afghanistan with our captain kicked out of the unit, my troop was led by our Warrant Officer (E-7/E-8 equivalent) and one Sergeant (E-6/E-7 equivalent) and our troop never ran smoother.

          • Warchild

            CV/buck,and like minded people,perhaps we all can to a point lead.Till recently have considered myself a sacrificial one in a bad scenario,OK as I have no kids/ wife but realize perhaps my point in a tough time is taking in orphans ect. and doing the best I can for them.We all need to be open and ready with our plans/situations,when leaders needed as long as viable the past does not count but good experience helps.I really do not care whether a 4 star general or single stripe private,you have good ideas/plans am willing to listen and follow if necc./worthy.

            • Canadian Vet

              I’m not saying that even the least experienced soldier/resistance member around won’t have a flash of brilliance now and again but leadership roles aren’t something you can just jump into and expect to be Alexander The Great reborn.

              And for those with leadership experience, there are different areas of leadership to be considered. For the Canadian Armed Forces Primary Leadership Qualification (Land), they use the infantry section as a training medium. I can run a section (squad) like there is no tomorrow. I can handle the administrative, logistical and operational needs of a small party like this and lead it effectively. I am also qualified to be an instructor and deliver effective training, provided I am familiar with the subject matter. And that is all beyond my own skillet within my trade/MOS.

              But Buck, on the other hand. I get the feeling he’s a platoon type. Could I be a platoon’s senior NCO, or even commander? In a crunch, sure. But there is more to going to leading a larger group than just scaling up from where you are used to be. It is like going from the garage league to the semi-pros or even the NHL. The rules of the game are the same but it is a whole different ball of wax.

              That is why there will be a requirement for experienced senior commanders. If only to provide that advanced leadership experience and ability to manage larger numbers with all of the attendant logistical, administrative, etc needs that come with it.

        • Paranoid

          Maybe, but I don’t think a General would help. Like every war since Roman times the sergeants will be what counts, but much more so. If this thing goes to a war it won’t be even company size engagements. The US never lost a company size battle in Nam. I hope there isn’t any significant conflict at all, and in truth I don’t think there will be. Yes, some nut cases will start shooting but that’s just foolishness. Even if the Gov goes completely nuts fighting is a poor way to win. But if there is, it will be won or lost by 5-10 people groups, MAX. No way evolutionary could win a big fight. Winning would be defined when the Gov cannot pay it’s people and they go home. The issue of the public would be to cost the Gov money, not fighting. I would NEVER take up arms voluntarily against my Gov, they may come against me. The issue would be, how can you deprive the Gov of money? It’s about money.

          • Paranoid

            I don’t even think the Gov is going to come after you. Nor do I think you need to consider bothering the Gov. Look at the data; just be a good citizen. The Gov is shooting itself in the foot as fast as it can. With these stupid policies and expenditures, it’s toast, all by itself. You need to worry about just looking after yourself.

          • Canadian Vet

            I really can’t see conventional engagements between a resistance and the “loyalists”. At least not early in the game. Once whole units defect en masse or once there is a lot of momentum by the resistance (which would mean huge numbers, organization into actual units instead of isolated cells and the captured vehicles, weapons, etc to actually form and support a standing army), then perhaps there will be a conventional war going on.

            But until then, the name of the game will be asymmetric warfare. But even for small cells, there is a need to have someone who knows what he’s doing in charge. Not necessarily a tactical and technical expert, but someone who knows how to lead troops and has the know-how to mount operations instead of just winging it. Someone who can also handle the logistical needs of the cell and manage its resources.

            And should multiple cells operate in the same area, for maximum efficiency there is a need for someone in overall command, someone who can coordinate all of the logistics and operations for maximum effect. And that is even more difficult and requires a great deal more experience.

            And it will just keep on growing, even in an asymmetric conflict. So yes, the lower levels of leadership, at the equivalent of section- or platoon-level, will still be the backbone but without a brain further up the chain, a widespread resistance will be more like a chicken running with its head cut off than an effective movement.

        • Mountain Trekker

          Buck whether we like Glenn Beck or not, this is why we need someone like him that has a platform and isn’t afraid to speak out against the government and the Socialist that are running it. And he does speak out strongly. No (one man) can just up and say lets take up arms and overthrow the government, they would have him locked up for sedition so quick that you wouldn’t even know it was time to start before it was over. And there’s always a lot of people yelling let’s do something,until the do something starts and then they’re nowhere to be found. There will be a time and place, so just be prepared when it starts. Trekker Out. 223 run and gun, 308 hold the gate.

    14. 10mm

      Key here is China.China already stated they wish to see a disarmed America.Like their people,unarmed.

      • Unreconsructed Southron

        Molon Labe, chinaman.

    15. Realtime Prep

      Remember, this is all about CONTROL, if the govt couldn’t control who is armed, then they’re gonna regulate the ability to get armed out of this country. So that only THE GOVERNMENT can purchase the ammo, or oil, or food. They’re in charge of almost every aspect of your life now. If we don’t ACT SOON, there will be no SHTF event, just silence.

    16. Nina'os lil brother


      • Night breaker


    17. XTP 1000 rounds of 223, 389.00 Fiocchi brand, that’s the best deal I have found

      • Warchild

        Good stuff,just personally looking for a 69 or higher grain at moment at reasonable price,something that will do well on deer a bit more quickly without adding another cartridge/cost beyond what I have.

    18. VRF

      They want you to believe EPA is the reason this was shut down..I don’t buy that one bit

      • Canadian Vet

        Obama has already proven how willing he is to use regulatory agencies like the USDA, IRS or EPA to go after people he doesn’t like or to push his agenda. This is just one more move along those lines.

        • jimbo

          Exactly right! Just like he had the EPA list co2 that we exhale and all living plant life breathe in as a deadly toxin. we get no help from a complicit or cowardly congress.

    19. RICH99

      Ammo for my nerf gun is still plentiful and cheap…..FOR NOW !!!

      • Warchild

        Well Rich,hope it gives you good practice at a reasonable cost!

    20. Chilton

      Check out a search engine for ammo prices displaying near real time pricing and availability. Spread the word on this as it will help keep prices down due to fair competition (wow the free market actually works).

      Just got 800 more rounds of 223.

      Keep stacking!

      • Warchild

        Chilton,best I usually have is 1500-1600 per rifle,though could always use more figure by that point not really needed or dead(hence not really needed!).Am just starting to reload so will hopefully get better rounds and build up good lord willing/creeks don’t rise ect.!

    21. Ugly

      All of the plays of their playbook is out in the open. They are coming to take us away.

    22. Southern Border

      Looks like their agenda is again moving forward, these idiots will not stop will they ? friggin assholes !!!

      • RICH99

        While we work 8 hours a day and pay taxes to these SCUMBAGS who spend those 8 hours everyday , looking for ways to fuck us over …….it will come to only 2 things …PERIOD !!!! SUCCUMB or FIGHT !!!

      • Tactical

        They never stopped SB. They just change tactics.

    23. Tactical

      Folks, Have you noticed the media specially Pierce Morgan like are very quiet lately and simply don’t talk about AR15 ban and are focused on the size of Kardashian’s monkey shaped ass? I have a feeling that mommy Feinstein told him and like him to calm down since we have a new way of screwing the last of Mohicans ( GUN OWNERS). Just my two cents…

    24. Stew Pedaso

      Crossbow…also have the tools to make arrows bolts and a take down bow made from skis. I love rednecks.

      • sixpack

        It’s easier to make the bow than the string—extra bow strings guys. Just my 2 cents worth.

        • SWFL

          I’m using gutted 550 cord on a 50-lbd hickory self-bow. It is not as good (fast)as a Dacron string but I am low on the thread I got for making strings.

          • Warchild

            SW,you are using para cord,is that really a reasonable option and workable solution?

            • SWFL

              If you gut the cord (use only the outer sheath without the strings inside) then yes. Under tension the diameter is smaller than you would think, being woven it resists wear well, and it is cheap and easily available. It is also strong enough that I can use a bowline for the end loop instead of trying to use a fid and splice a loop in it. I haven’t tried it on draw weights above about 50-53 lbs but,for this,it works for me.

    25. El Borak

      Head down to the tire store and buy ya some used wheel weights. 5 gallon bucket goes about $40 and you’ll have 130# of #2 equivalent (perfect for handgun loads), 10# of pure lead for muzzle loads, 3# of zinc, and 15# of steel. What to use that last 2 for I haven’t figured out. But I will.

      Visit 5 times. Then melt ’em all (separately, of course) into 1 pound blocks and put ’em in an old box in the back of the barn.

      Problem solved.

      • sixpack

        Use that last one for IEDs…schrapnel.

        • SWFL

          Zinc plus carbon plus acid produces electric current for the above.

          • The Old Coach

            Good use for all those zinc pennies!

        • Warchild

          Or steel core ammo.

      • The Old Coach

        Good luck, chum. Tire stores all sell their used wheelweight to high bidders now, IF they sell ’em at all. No more 80 lb. buckets in return for a case of beer. Wheelweights are about $1.00 a pound + shipping on gun websites. And in Kali and some other states the weights are zinc anyway. No good to man or beast. (Zinc bullets were tried in the ’40s and ’50s. They don’t work worth a darn.)

    26. CWinOR

      Just ordered another 1k of .40 JHP’s from Montana Gold Bullets. I have a feeling things are going to dry up FAST…again!

      BTW- Montana Gold has free shipping right now for all you reloaders out there.

      • Urban

        This shit is perpetuated by the people making bullets. Everyone hoards and drives the price up. The government laughs because certain people get distracted by the mundane. Meanwhile they pilfer the treasury and laugh all the way to the bank.

        • CWinOR

          Yes…I’m sure you’re right, and the fact that it would’ve have cost the company $100M to compy with EPA regs has nothing to do with it, and that in this one instance only, the law of supply and demand has been suspended.


    27. Joe

      I think I’m going to invest in a compound bow soon

      • sixpack

        Do it. You won’t be sorry.

    28. carynverell

      being from the great arcadia valley area where doe run is in fact located I know first hand what the epa and other govt entities have done to devastate the economy of this area over the last thirty years….it ain’t been good.

      • Anonymous

        We live vey close by. You might see me down by the river by doe run some time. Be good to know someone on my side in the area.

    29. jrtatum

      If we get in a war with China will we still be able to buy lead from them ( the Chinese )for our bullets ?

      Seems the EPA is destroying our defense capabilities, this use to be illegal and unpatriotic .Is the EPA in bed with the Chinese ? Appears so.

      • sixpack

        NO, TPTB are in bed with whomever helps them disarm the people…this time, it happens to be China.

      • Gonetoolong

        Hey, on the bright side, think of how deadly the Chinese leaded bullets will be compared to standard lead bullets. If the Chinese can kill babies with leaded toys, think what they can do with ammo.

    30. GetItNOW!!

      Could explain the 1.6B round purchase order; they knew it was coming…. A bit O’ insider trading if you will.

      Stock up boys and girls.

      • Warchild

        Why,plenty to get off of the dead,well,hopefully!

    31. GetItNOW!!

      Actually…..probably a GREAT time to open a little ore plant just North of Minnesota or just South of Texas…. 🙂

    32. Kulafarmer

      I know you all are most likely sick of my opinion but,,,,

      This whole thing stinks,

      Seems like the administration is biting off its nose to spite its face!
      When ALL manufacturing capability is gone,
      How the hell are we going to be able to build or make anything?
      This is the problem with placing these inept idiots in political office throughout the government.
      Its like Atlas Shrugged is coming to life in this country today.
      Just plain short sighted and stupid, that ALL i can say, STUPID!

      • sixpack

        We’re all supposed to wait tables and clean motel rooms for the elite…they don’t think we need to build anything anymore. Remember, we’re supposed to be slaves, not craftsmen!

        • Kulafarmer

          I know thats what they want around here, when they talk about good paying hotel and restaurant jobs created by tourism it makes me want to hurl,
          Who in their right mind would CHOOSE to be a waiter or house keeper etc,
          Thats why most of the kids end up leaving the islands and never come back.
          We dont have the trades jobs anymore and agriculture has been sold down the road, so now we have service level slave jobs.

          • wildman

            Kula thsi is what TPTB want a service based economy where there is no manufacturing. this is why ol, ross perot said would happen and did. this is all by design by the so called best an brightest. but their dream hasnt worked out so we have lost tax base we havent adjusted taxes down to offset the lost taxes ( this mostly dem controlled areas) THIS ONLY MEANS THE DEMS ARE OUT OF IDEAS! Its up to us to throw all the bastards out, no retirement , no healthcare, no nothin as they couldnt , and cant be trusted with the steering wheel. I have said for over 30 yrs what good is buying something if ya cant pay for it. ie a new tractor if its built here then ya can pay for it if built overseas then where is the incentive to buy it. this economy was drawn up by 2 scientists that worked at a nuke plant,( just goes to show they aint that smart ) they figured if we gave away half of our manufacturing, those people would like us , it turns out that they now dont like us more cause now they gotta work . no more free handouts. If we want manufacturing to come back here we gotta take taxes down to 3% an slice government spending to 1% of GDP. that means that jojo the trained monkey could work for the government. BUT TPTB aint gonna let that happen! as Allen Greenspan once said if you understood what i said, I said it wrong wildman out ps im still here an watchin

      • JayJay

        Well, I’m stumped…again.
        If we can’t get ammo, how does the government get ammo?/
        Or is that the whole point?

        • sixpack

          That’s the whole point.

        • KY Mom

          The government often EXEMPTS themselves from the laws they write for US.

          such as Obamacare, social security, etc.

      • lastmanstanding

        Wife and I just watched A.S. 1 & 2…

        We are John Galt.

    33. Socrates

      There is no doubt that policies are being drafted, deployed and enforced to achieve nefarious means.

      Sierra bullets is one of, if not the biggest bullet mfg in the world says this smelting plant closure will not be a problem as they use a lot of recycled car battery lead from a plant located 90 miles away. This could cause a temporary jack in prices on raw lead (not alloys, or hardened for actual bullets). I would stock up anyways. Lead is def one of the precious metals now.

      More on what Sierra says here:

    34. Sgt. Dale

      Go out and get what you can. Just leave some the other guy.
      Buy as much reloading supplies that you can. (if you reload) Leave some for the other guy.
      177 and 22 cal pellets get them while you can.
      Compound bows and cross bows are another good piece of equipment to have.
      If you haven’t already got your firearm. Buy it today. If you have several, don’t get gun rich and ammo poor! start adding to ammo supplies.
      This is just this side of prepping. we are not talking about food and water that is for another day.
      I have always said on this site PREPARE, PREPARE, PREPARE. The closing of Doe Run is one of Reasons I keep saying Prep!!!

      • Kulafarmer

        Aim small, miss small,
        And use effective fire, one shot one kill my Dad always said,

        • Sgt. Dale

          One shot one kill is what I have on my hat that I wear when I’m on sniper duty. We received them from the FBI back in 1989. (That was when they were the good guys)

          • Warchild

            Sarge,hopefully still a few good guys,will say at least met one who is,well,retired but still passed along some pistol shooting experience to me as he was a instructor for a decade.

            • WhoWuddaThunkIt

              To LEO’s- You are either an “Oath Keeper” or you are not.

        • laeagle

          I bagged more animals with my brother’s single shot .22 than any other gun our family owned. Sgt. Dale, Kula, I am with you on that.

      • Kindle

        Cabella’s has a good sale going and includes $5 shipping (including ammo) if you order $100. I just ordered Rem. 223 for 45 cents, 22l for 9 cents and Federal Rifled slugs for 60 cents including rebate. Now if I could find a good deal on sabots I would be way happy.

    35. Phil

      Just ordered a night vision scope with ir illuminator from Sportsman’s Guide $350. Have had good luck with them in the past buying scopes and high capacity magazines. Tough to kill what you cannot see.

    36. Ted Kennedy

      That BB gun could put your eye out.

    37. Rogan

      it’s Back to Cowboys and Indians.

      Use your Bows and Arrows to Take the enemies guns and ammo

    38. Barn Cat

      If you want to make your own ammo one place to get lead is CRT monitors. You could advertise on Craigslist to pick them up for free.

      • VRF

        is it pure, or amalgamated?

        • Barn Cat

          The lead is in the glass. It would have to be melted and separated. Lead vapor is highly toxic so you’d have to be extremely careful in separating it. I’m sure if you googled it you could find out how to do it safely.

    39. Kevin2

      The most difficult to find and most expensive relative to its cost 2/3 years ago is .22LR. Its about half the price of ball 9MM (and has at best 25% of the components) right now and a far site more difficult to find.

      11 cents / round for .22LR? Crazy

    40. Nina'os lil brother

      Suddenly 500 bucks for 1 spam can ain’t so outrageus
      Ifn day kaint cach a bunch o haji’s in them hills
      Whuts makn u tink day gonna b cach n us n r’n
      Let em try
      Welcome to REDNECKASTAN

    41. NC joe

      The EPA first went after the Doe Run Co. and its smelting operation in 2008. President Obama took office in 2009.

      Yeah, it’s all Obama. Get your facts straight and your head out of your ass.

      • braveheart

        ncjoe, nobody here said it was Obama. move your ass on to someplace else before someone here kicks it.

      • The Old Coach

        For once he’s right, you know. But no matter – he’ll be wrong within the next hour or two to make up for it.

      • Unreconsructed Southron

        There’s not enough room while you’re up there.

      • Smokey

        Your point being, what, precisely? That the government didn’t impose the regulations or something like that?

    42. GetItNOW!!

      Will this affect lead solder? Just thinking outside the ammo box here. Don’t want my solder gun to go hungry.

      • The Old Coach

        Probably a little. But what’s driven the price of solder out of sight is the price of TIN.

        Bit of advice – buy pewter any chance you get. It’s largely tin, and often worth more for that alone than hock shops and auctioneers get for it. Just be sure it’s real pewter, and not aluminum in disguise.

    43. The Rifleman Next Door

      Just ordered 2000 rounds of 55gr FMJ

      Next paycheck will be 2000 rounds of .40 S&W

      After that….I’ll scavenge for as much 5.7x 28mm that I can get my hands on.

      I’ve already got a gun safe and a half FULL of ammo….but with this anti-constitutional political environment, you never know if you’ll need to buy enough to last a lifetime of hunting, plinking, training and possibly fighting.

      • yental

        Keep “running your mouth”…it won’t matter what you buy. Now convinced, something is amiss.

        Bragging about quantities and calibers is an excellent strategy. For something…!!!

        After all, tracking an IP address and connecting to a physical address…impossible for the NSA, DHS, and even the casual hacker.

        • Warchild

          Yes,but millions to track and,well….reeducate/relocate ect.Really will be a interesting time in US history,one I hope will never happen though have my doubts.

        • The Rifleman Next Door

          then let it begin at my doorstep….

    44. theglimmerman

      A little off subject but here goes:

      I have always said that if a President ever steps up and exposes tptb, he/she would have the support of the entire country. He may run the risk of someone selling him out but, because it’s the President, with the support of the people, we would come to his aid and I believe the military would as well. You’re the President of the United States for Christ’s sake, Commander and Chief of the military; shut down the borders, cut off aid to countries who don’t deserve it, rat out the globalists for what they are! WE (INCLUDING THE MILITARY WILL BACK YOU UP).

      But no, what is one of the first things he does when he takes office? Signs an almost 800 billion dollar bail out for; guess who? THE BANKS. That’s the time when I knew nothing was going to change.

      If we have to go to war with every nation on Earth, SO BE IT! It’s our military plus another 40 to 80 million gun owners with about 300 million guns fighting on our turf; I already know what the outcome would be. An ass whooping the likes that the world has never seen.(for them)

      Sorry, but I am beginning to believe that every President after Kennedy was/is a flat out coward!

    45. Sick of it all

      well I guess I will start weaving/making Muslim prayer rugs to sell to all the fucking kool-aid drinkers who voted for change & use the proceeds to buy the last of the overpriced ammo.

    46. Shane Vandrell

      Maybe I am just stupid…but Isn’t a bullet made of a primer, powder, case, and the bullet??? Most bullets I buy are not lead. They are FMJ. So wouldn’t companies like Hornady, Federal, whatever just start producing FMJ’s???

      • DPS


        The FMJ is a copper plated lead bullet and even the HP are semi copper jacket so it can withstand the heavy loads. A all lead bullets will come apart if it doesn’t have a gas check on the bullet. Now you can get around that by make alloy rounds that will take the higher FPS loads. If you want more info hit youtube up or get a Leereloading book and it will tell you everything you want to know about pouring your own bullets.



        • Shane Vandrell

          DPS…Trekker…Socrates..Thank you all for responding! All makes sense 🙂

      • Mountain Trekker

        Shane, most bullets that are FMJ have a lead core, unless they have a steel core, then they are considered armour piercing. Government, both state and fed. as well as many ammo companies have been trying to get rid of lead bullets for some time. This ain’t good! Trekker Out.

        • The Old Coach

          I kinda doubt that ammo companies want to eliminate lead core jacketed bullets. That’s their bread and butter. These new solid-copper-alloy bullets are 98% driven by Kalifornia mandates. Even the Feds aren’t pushing them. They are a PITA to make, compared to the plain old lead-core bullet, which is why they cost so much.

          • Mountain Trekker

            Coach, maybe not in rifle calibers, but the Feds started this BS many years ago, with waterfowl. When they started making us use steel shot. Not as effective as lead, and probably have more ducks and geese go off and die from steel than those that died from ingesting lead. Now Commiefornia uses the excuse that the Condors are dying from lead they are ingesting from animals they scavage. Just as there is always a reason to take our guns now there’s always an excuse to remove lead, the cheapest and most effective material to use for a projectile. Trekker Out.

      • Socrates

        The description of your FMJ bullets actually tells you what they are- Full Metal Jacket. That means the jacket (or sleeve us reloaders know) is a thin metal shell, or jacket filled with lead. Almost all bullets cast, swaged or formed contain lead. Except the Californika versions where they have outlawed lead bullets in favor of ‘environmentally safe’ non lead alloys. Notice how the whole ‘Save the Environment’ push is killing US?

        It’s all smoke and mirrors just like everything else. They tell you something is for one purpose- when in fact, it has a hidden, darker purpose.

        • yental

          @ Socrates: A much welcomed voice of reason in “the growing wilderness”. The time has long since arrived that NOTHING can be accepted at “face value”.

          The “AGENDA” is the well known, but rarely connected/associated “carnival house of distorted mirrors”.

          Only by exiting the “ride/attraction” can an individual that is actually “looking and seeing”…find the truth.

          BTW, don’t drink the “free punch”, rumor has it that it is laced with HEMLOCK.

        • Warchild

          I would be happy with steel core/copper jacketed rounds any day.

    47. MongoPissed

      There is always copper ammo. A .22-250, firing copper .224 solids, will penetrate body armor. I have fired saboted Barnes .224 copper solids from a .300 Win Mag, and they cut through steel like a knife thru butter. The sabots, if carefully selected and prepared (no burrs, trued for perfect round and matching weight) will offer close to, if not the same, accuracy as conventional ammo. The gent I know who rolls his own achieves 4300 fps (in a Savage bolt action) without pushing pressures, and feels 4500 fps is realistic. This is approaching the velocity of antitank sabot rounds. The key to armor penetration is velocity. I hear there are still Remington Accelerator rounds in .308 and .30-06 floating around, though they won’t match the accuracy of handloads.


    48. Fiction for ya..

      Next up…they will pass laws against possessing lead ammo.

      I saw this coming.

      I bought a few cases of bird shot for gathering food if shtf.

      Yeah… Bad times are coming.

      Next up they will tag anyone who goes to sites like these as domestic terrorists.

      I predict a currency collapse…then “UN PEACEKeepers”….think Chinese and Russian troops.

      Then there’s your commie take over.

      At that point.. I do hope the military will roll into washington and remove the commie in power.

      Then with you and your family disarmed…then they will round you up and a truck will take you to a Fema camp.

      Out comes the commie sorting hat..think Harry Potter sorting hat…
      Then some go in the ovens others get brainwashed.


      The commies are destroying your dollar, your factories and your way of life.

      A very old Jewish guy told me this was coming.
      Go read the Elders of the Protocol of Zion.
      This is quite the read too…

      We have one hope.

      The generals at the Pentagon. They will need to do a flash take over.
      I hope they have the balls to do it.

    49. RickE.

      Stock up on ammo now, before prices rise precipitously!
      AND, get you a crossbow! A crossbow is silent death. No one will know you fired it except for your target!

    50. Sick of it all

      (off subject sorry ) Heard the latest? The king was considering replacing his queen (Biden) in the ’12 election with the bitch Hilliary. Seems he was worried about losing. Proof the egotistical mother fucker will do anything to stay in control. He would have gotten 100% of the lesbian vote for sure. I wonder what Biden thinks about this? seems the king used him as an insurance policy since Biden was “only a heartbeat away from assuming control”. The king figures he is safe since Nobody wants “Joe the Tool” to run this country. I wonder if he chose the bitch as VP if he would still be around?? Maybe that’s why he didn’t choose her because he fears the skanky bitch?? I remember all the white water witnesses who “DIED” before it was their time to testify. Google “CLINTON BODY COUNT” like over 60 dead connected to the Clintons’ So WTF were 4 more in Benghazi?? JUST THE FACTS

    51. ed

      Who would of thought the revolution would start in L.A. This is the start boys. This is the start of what so many on here think they want. Well now’s the time to show us. The first shot has been fired. Go getem.
      Or will this be relegated to false flag status as well. I bet it will. Revolution is what we need and revolution is what we’ll givem. Yeah right.
      While I don’t believe any of the bravado spouted out here. I do believe this shooter had the right idea. He was just stupid in the execution of his plan. It’s a shame he didn’t get more agents. If you’re gonna go, go big.

    52. eppe

      Read between the lines….

    53. Calgacus

      Doe Run is shutting down a primary smelter used for processing ore. Almost all the lead used in the US and for firearms use comes from secondary smelting of recycled lead.
      This company is closing the old facility that processed ore but will operate secondary smelting operations. Theyre not the only secondary smelter in the US either.

    54. Be informed

      I was doing some deep thinking today after that LAX attack and contemplating what if that had been 20, 30, or even a 100 attacking some airport, crowd of people, something of extreme importance to the country. Our freedoms could be attacked overnight and we could lose freedoms not by the day, but by the minute.

      Then I began thinking about quality of life and the old saying, better dead than red. Finally you think about just life would be like without any freedoms and being subjected to a nightmare of being watched, having your speech censored, etc. like Iran or Saudi Arabia, or worse North Korea. It gets worse. When they discover how to control your brain, having implants put into you like some nanoprobes in the science fiction TV show Star Trek with the Borg. All of this IF they take people’s rights to defend themselves. And you know they will try eventually and use some false premise that many of the masses will believe.

      It has become a lot better option to go down fighting than become some controlled biological mess with all sorts of electrodes hooked up to you to control even your thoughts. Maybe a new phase instead of better dead than red, should be “better in the grave than enslaved”.

      • Calgacus

        Millions are in control already with ebt cards. The more they destroy the more they control with the free shit and its so easy. The irony is that the peeps who work are paying for it to happen.

      • laeagle

        @Be Informed, There are billions of people who survived the tyranny of the “Reds” communists in the former USSR, China, etc., and have managed to resume ‘normal’ productive lives. Survival is a must. Life is precious. My grandfather was tortured and imprisoned for 3 years by the communist. He continued to be a productive member of society after his release and to this day is revered as an important horticulturalist back in the ‘old’ country. We must get away from the mindset that it is ‘better to be dead than Red’. Once your dead, you are dead! You have nothing to contribute to society. As much as I cherish freedom and democracy, we should never give up hope, and needlessly, futilely, lay down our lives without meaning or purpose. If I die defending my family and the people I love, if I die protecting my country – the country that I love, so be it, it will have been worthwhile. But, we must be prepared to survive, so that, someday, we can take back the country that was handed down to us from our forefathers. “Fight today and runaway, live to fight another day!” I hope I am not misunderstood.

        When I think about Joseph in the Bible, he was a survivor and ultimately ended up saving his family and his people. He was thrown into a pit, he was sold into slavery, he was falsely imprisoned, accused of rape, etc., but in the end, he succeeded in saving the lives of countless millions who would have perished had he not had the vision and the foresight to prep for bad times. Everyone of us could learn from Joseph. Except for the bad guys, I don’t think any of us would be “better off in the grave”, even if we were enslaved.

        On another note, I posted this on a previous comment of yours and wanted to make sure you got it.

        Be Informed,

        Many thanks. Many of us depend on your timely and prescient warnings. Please keep them coming.

        The following excerpt was the earthquake I was referring to a while back when the world renown Frank Kingdon Ward reported seeing a King Cobra and a Gaur racing up a hill prior to the earthquake. This piece comes from a recent report on the top ten earthquakes of recent times. More than 1,500 people died, because some of the areas it affected were very remote regions that had no way of seeking help from the authorities.

        #10 Assam-Tibet, 1950 – Magnitude 8.6
        Credit: NASA Earth Observatory.
        “At least 1,500 people were killed across eastern Tibet and Assam, India, when this temblor shook the region. Ground cracks, large landslides and sand volcanoes hit in the area. The quake was felt in the Sichuan and Yunnan Provinces of China, and as far away as Calcutta, India.
        The quake caused large landslides that blocked rivers. When the rivers finally burst through the walls of debris, waves inundated several villages and killed hundreds of people.
        This quake is commonly called the Assam-Tibet earthquake or the Assam earthquake, even though the epicenter was in Tibet. The quake struck at the intersection of the most vigorous collision of continental plates on the planet, where the Indian continental plate smashes into the Eurasian plate and dives beneath it. The slow-motion crash helped create the massive Himalayas.”

        • WhoWuddaThunkIt

          You seem confused, You either believe in the Bible, its stories and passages, (OR) You believe in science, physics, technology, history and reality. You can’t believe in both. BTW/ to stay “On Topic” here, a great place to harvest lead is at the shooting range dirt pile backstops. Think of the tons of lead just sitting there, doing nothing at the moment. Hint- Lead is heavier than dirt.. Put it to good use Patriots.

    55. Ancient Echoes

      When humans do evolve to the point where we can explore space and things are like they were depicted in Star Trek you will not need weapons. The crew, before beaming to the planet, were each issued a weapon. I look forward to those time.

    56. bohica1

      behold, the end approaches

    57. possee

      off topic…

      The Washington Times Friday, November 1, 2013

      President Obama issued an executive order Friday directing a government-wide effort to boost preparation in states and local communities for the impact of global warming.

      The action orders federal agencies to work with states to build “resilience” against major storms and other weather extremes. For example, the president’s order directs that infrastructure projects like bridges and flood control take into consideration climate conditions of the future, which might require building structures larger or stronger — and likely at a higher price tag.


      wag the dog..


      • Smokey

        That means instead of designing for a 100-year flood, the current standard, you design for higher velocities, or perhaps a 150 or 200-year event. Raise the bridge another two feet before you build it. Use heavier roofing materials, and five nails in each shingle, not four. Larger dimensional lumber in framing members. Put in a 2-foot diameter culvert as a minimum instead of 18 inch diameter, that kind of thing. You spend more on construction, but you can save big dollars when the structure doesn’t fail due to the minimum design standards being lower than anticipated.

      • Calgacus

        Is this the agenda 21 happening or something else coming down.?

    58. VRF

      Funny how the lead when it was in the ground never hurt anyone..and after its shot most of it returns to the ground

      next dirt, plain ol dirt will not be allowed to be used by the subjects of the kings land

      • DPS


        Sorry about the thumbs down buddy, I was using my phone and hit it by mistake last night. Smart phone my ass LOL


    59. Tread3

      Here we go again. More epa regulation causing more job loss. The article clearly states that they (Doe Run)were in the process of building and designing a new plant w/ new tech. that would reduce 99% of air, water & ground pollution. Why not at least give them a chance to try the new design and if it fails epa requirements, then shut them down? A whole community losing a key coponent to its local economy; this is another example of government over-reach. It is sad that so many Americans cave-in to the left and their agenda so quickly. I am 100% for making industry accountable for pollution. But this is madness. To quote Dr. michael Savage “Liberalism is a mental diorder.” Enough said

    60. Pissed man

      We will just have to upgrade to steel instead of lead. A CNC lathe can kick out rounds every few seconds. Just a little bit lighter so need to adjust the sights. They will never be able to stop someone serious who has the machinery and materials. Just makes it a little more of a hassle and maybe more expensive.

      • James Woroble Jr

        Steel on Steel

        That alternative should do wonders for the rifling in the barrels 🙂 …like destroy it with the first couple of rounds!

        Tin, though it lacks the mass weight of lead, has an equivalent ‘softness’ of lead that should leave the barrel rifling undamaged. Ideally, a thickly tin plated alternative ‘heavy’ (tungsten) metal would give the desired mass while protecting the barrel rifling.

        Hardnesses of the elements (data page)

    61. jim in Va.

      Start saving those wheel weight and old batteries. Buy ammo while you can. Storm is coming.

      • slingshot

        Read Old Coaches posts on battery warnings

    62. Anonymous

      What are the odds of this happening?
      From the shooting today. A quote from the LAX chief.
      During the press conference, Gannon said authorities had run through the “exact” scenario that played out at LAX on Friday, which helped them to respond effectively to the situation when it unfolded for real. From Yahoonews.

      Anyone remember that during the boson bombing there was a an excersize going on as well?

      How about the rumors from Aurora theater? There was reports of hospitals running training from that type of scenario.

      My theory is that the government is receiving intelligence of eminent threats, not stopping them from happening just mitigating the casualty numbers. This way their agenda can still be furthered.

      I would guess that in the near future anyone who has ever been to a shrink or on psych meds will be turning in their weapons.

    63. Rusted Spurs

      What are the odds of this happening?
      From the shooting today. A quote from the LAX chief.
      During the press conference, Gannon said authorities had run through the “exact” scenario that played out at LAX on Friday, which helped them to respond effectively to the situation when it unfolded for real. From Yahoonews.

      Anyone remember that during the boson bombing there was a an excersize going on as well?

      How about the rumors from Aurora theater? There was reports of hospitals running training from that type of scenario.

      My theory is that the government is receiving intelligence of eminent threats, not stopping them from happening just mitigating the casualty numbers. This way their agenda can still be furthered.

      I would guess that in the near future anyone who has ever been to a shrink or on psych meds will be turning in their weapons.

    64. Rusted Spur

      What are the odds of this happening?
      From the shooting today. A quote from the LAX chief.
      During the press conference, Gannon said authorities had run through the “exact” scenario that played out at LAX on Friday, which helped them to respond effectively to the situation when it unfolded for real. From Yahoonews.

      Anyone remember that during the boson bombing there was a an excersize going on as well?

      How about the rumors from Aurora theater? There was reports of hospitals running training from that type of scenario.

      My theory is that the government is receiving intelligence of eminent threats, not stopping them from happening just mitigating the casualty numbers. This way their agenda can still be furthered.

      I would guess that in the near future anyone who has ever been to a shrink or on psych meds will be turning in their weapons.

    65. James

      Crossbows and bow and arrows can be used very effectively against the military along with booby traps, pungy sticks, Etc. Look at how the Vietnamese won their war against us.

      • jimb

        The N. Vietnamese did not win their war, our Government at the time won it for them.

    66. armed citizen

      great ammo sites I hadn’t heard of yet. Thanks gang!

      We’re all on a list somewhere but Yental has a good point, Do you go and tell everybody how much food you got stashed?

      Keep prepping but remember nothing is secure anymore.

      • James Woroble Jr

        With the use of a syringe and a microscopic marker, there are 1 out of 50 meals that I HIGHLY recommend not eating, among the ‘prepers’ I know.

    67. James Woroble Jr.

      While you can…

      May be as much of an investment as gold and silver.

    68. edwinalowes

      The one thing that i remember the most clearly over the past 40 years of my school days at Brandeis University in 1970’s are my student adviser’s words that when he was growing up that his grand parents and parents used the term “‘goyishe kup,’” meaning that the “Non-Jews are Stupid”
      Later in life I learned that the exact translation of “GOYISHE KUP” means that the “Cattle are STUPID”..
      I remember him recalling what his father told him when he was growing up in Eastern Europe. One of them being that when his father was in high school he and a group of friends would skip school early on Fridays and go over to his friend’s father’s butcher shop. That they would buy at cost any cows , that had not been butchered by the end of the day on Friday before the start of Shabat . They would take the cow home and wash it and then the boys would procede to “beat the udders of the cows so that they would swell up and turn pink” so as to sell them to the “GOYISHE KUP” as milk producing cows.
      The part that I remember him asking me if the East Europeans are so “naive, so gullible and so stupid” to buy an old “non milk producing cows” from a bunch of young Jewish Boys.
      So re-thinking of it now I agree with the Jewish saying that the “GOYISHE KUP” are indeed” Stupid” as they believe that a Bunch of Arab Moslem Kids who were not able to Fly a Cessna Airplane took it upon themselves to FLY a Jumbo 747 and outwitted the US Militaryand Civilian authorities. The “Jewish Lightning Insurance Scam” of the 1960’s is still alive and well has been put to good use by Larry Silverstein in putting 15 million down and comming out with 7 billion dollars for buidings that no one wanted to buy because it would have cost a billion dollars to remove the asbestos from. Then on top of that the people in America actually believe that they actually decide who is elected President or for that that actual VOTE is really counted and makes a difference in deciding who represents them in the White House and congress.,,

      Oy Veh, I agree that the American Non-Jews are indeed “GOYISHE KUP” or “STUPID CATTLE”!

    69. km

      You need to be concerned with radiation, not bullets! It’s not just Japan’s problem!

      • Ancient Echoes

        I agree, this could be an E.L.E. if we are not careful and start getting our priorities straight. We need to act together as one human race. Study physics everyone!

    70. Chris Mallory

      Not an issue. Very little US smelted lead was used in ammo production. Anyway, the US recycles more than 150,000 metric tons of lead every year. US ammo production uses 62,000 metric tones of lead a year. The recycling plants are still working.

    71. Fiction for ya..

      The big enemy of America are the American corporations like Walmart.
      Boycott these bastards.

      Give shit to anyone who shops there.

      Mac, maybe we need a template area on this site for made in America stuff.

      I’ll start.. I bought this.. a black one.. Nice American made wallet. Fuck China.

      Got Army Blankets..if they are planning shit…you’ll need to keep warm when the gas stops.. Preppers rarely talk about blankets, sleeping bags and sleeping stuff.
      You cannot fend off the enemy if you are cold and cannot sleep.
      Also… a great trading item… the first to go!

    72. Need for Sleep during the Coming Civil War

      Mylar sleeping bag.

      When the UN troops invade the US as “peace keepers”
      They will kill the power in some areas to reign in folks.
      So you will need to keep warm.
      This is a mylar sleeping bag. Very small..but for what it does…
      It will keep you warm.

      Also…they are a hot barter item.

      All you who are new to this site… You need to focus first on the basics.
      Keeping warm and dry is #1 as well as good sound sleep.
      If you cannot sleep because you are cold…then you will get sick in time.
      Use your heads and pass on the latest shit from Apple and get some beans, rice, warm blankets and so on.

      I keep a few of these around.. In my glove box in the cars.

    73. Szandor

      Given the terriffic success they had with prohibition and the (supposed) “war on drugs”,
      it seems that they have now invited the world’s black market entrepreneurs to begin the
      importation of ammunition and probably military arms to the USA. Let’s see how that goes.

    74. mike prince

      I just don’t get. O.K. I’m a dumb ass. I can buy 9mm para in 5,000 round boxes on sale. Shot gun shells no problem. All contain lead. I finally saved the money for my dream rifle. Remington 700,detachable box magazine, Timmley trigger 6×60 scope ect.$5,000. But holding off. Even with reloading no bullets,powder,or primers-whats the use? A 1k meter rifle that I can’t shoot? I’ll have to ask Obama next time he jambs up traffic going to LAX.

      • Smokey

        Ammo isn’t going to disappear. Go ahead and get your dream rifle. You can get 1,000 rounds for about 10% of your rifle cost, presuming a NATO .30 caliber.

        Those Timney triggers sure do smooth things out, don’t they?

      • Paranoid

        Why are you having a problem with primers etc. They are back on the shelves most places around here now, Only shortage remaining is 22 AND 22 Mag. For the powder you still have to ask, but they have it.

    75. DDearborn


      without a doubt one of my favorite poems from Henry Wadsworth Longfellow starts out like this:

      Listen my children and you shall hear
      Of the midnight ride of Paul Revere,
      On the eighteenth of April, in Seventy-five;
      Hardly a man is now alive
      Who remembers that famous day and year.

      What exactly where the British sent to Lexington and Concord to seize? Was it muskets or cannon? No people the action which sparked the birth of our great Republic was the attempted seizure of powder and shoot. That’s right the King wanted our ammunition. He know without ammunition that there could be no sustained armed resistance by the “terrorists”. You know those courageous freedom loving men who had the guts to stand up and say enough is enough!

      Does the country belong to the people or does it belong to those special few that control Washington now?

    76. Michael Reinhart

      When these last workers lose their jobs, firearms without ammunition are short lived. China will be control of our ammunition, electronics and other major dependencies.

      All military, law enforcement, militias and individuals will be controlled by rationing ammunition. Without compliance, entire units and entire states will eventually become depleted of ammunition.
      Consider the odds against the once great Indian nations. Remember the British intention to confiscate all military weapons.
      This is the moment where America stands up in non-compliance or accepts bondage. These workers must stay on the job in the face of EPA. The property owner must be held harmless, being defended by the people as jurors or by any means.
      This must be peace through strength non-compliance. Ammunition spent would be undoubtedly, on chosen expendables blinded by propaganda and a pay check.
      Manufacturing / income is the backbone of self-sufficiency / liberty. Without it bondage is inevitable. I fail to see how EPA has lawful authority to do so much harm. Government is instituted among men to defend rights. EPA must be disallowed the privilege of killing any manufacturing before first creating a viable alternative which would include national income, state income and worker income without first stealing it from others.
      Spread the word

    77. Infidels-r-us

      Git yurself a muzzleloader. You can shoot anything out of it that will fit into the barrel. I would love to shoot old political campaign badges at the asses. Black powder is still widely available and will keep a long time if sealed properly. Download every “illegal” underground weapon making book you can off the internet. Some of them are a lot of fun to read and you can be sure reading them makes our evil gov miserable. Be a nonconformist.

    78. GrandpaSpeaks

      Don’t forget the sulphur for the chickenshit, the charcoal is easy. Got a blunderbuss, I’ve got an old “I like Ike” badge. Only one for such a target rich environment though. Your handle cracked me up, there is hope after all.

    79. Henry

      “A couple of years ago we opined that the anti-gun establishment had found a loophole for the Second Amendment and that rather than targeting the banning of all firearms, they would instead turn their attention to ammunition.”

      Given the actual timeline, it didn’t require a crystal ball. The DOE regulations that caused the shutdown of Doe Run were the product of the BUSH administration. Fancy that.

      • Infidels-r-us


        I used to be a hard-core Republican. George Bush Jr. oversaw the largest false-flag in history (9-11). He teamed up with Israel to kill two birds with one stone. In one fell swoop, he managed to eliminate several of Israel’s enemies and get the military-industrial complex in warp speed producing trillions of dollars in war material. Gotta wonder how long it took for U.S. government operatives to recruit the muslim fanatics and time the plane takeovers to jive with the bomb placements in the towers. This is unfortunately, the ugly truth of 9-11. So no, the Republicans are not what they seem to be.

    80. Infidels-r-us


      Don’t worry Sir, you can just go to Home Depot and buy 10 pounds of landscape timber nails and you are good to go. Or some good old recycled ball bearings. Can’t keep a good man down, especially by taking our factory made lead away. A round of applause for the Chinese, who discovered gunpowder. 🙂

    81. Eldon Warman

      Seems that the Germans had a lack of lead problem in WW1, so they used hardwood bullets. Should be easy enough to make on a home lathe. And, maybe a bit of teflon paint baked on would make them not see kevlar, especially if they had a soft steel core. I think they were outlawed by Geneva Convention, but what country obeys Geneva Conventions any more?

    82. Interesting read
    83. mike prince

      Paranoid mentioned primers and powder still available. Yes I was referring to the 3 main item ,besides brass needed to reload. Remember when primer shortage hit about 5 years ago? You need all 3.I remember my old .303b that would shoot 250 rounds in one weekend. Then $1 plus for Remington or 26 cents reloaded. Homemade black powder not good for 30k csu pressure on modern barrels. Hand pored lead molds still need lead. Wheel weights , fishing weights same composition ? FMJ ? I checked Brownell’s and it’s a first come first serve waiting list. What’s my point? It seams 22lr is step no. x to, as many have said slowly degrade the 2nd. I verified my life membership (lost my card in the NRA). I know some of you have problems with the NRA , but tough . Suck it up and put you name on the list.

    84. Sonokar

      This is why I learned out to construct and use a primitive long bow.

    85. KY Mom


      “As Americans argue over Obamacare, illegal immigration and a variety of other important issues, the very real threat of Second Amendment infringements continues to creep as anti-gun rights advocates seek to approve the United Nations’ Arms Trade Treaty (ATT).

      The United Nations General Assembly approved the ATT earlier this year, which has been designed to regulate the traffic and possession of weapons between countries. The treaty has been signed by Secretary of State John Kerry, however the international treaty must be approved by the Senate in order to be recognized.

      While Kerry and others try to gain support for the treaty, Tea Party Senator Ted Cruz warns that the Obama Administration is already making the argument that an international treaty supersedes the rights outlined in the Constitution.”

      Tea Party News Network
      (Direct link below)

    86. crusader2010

      All this does is cause first time weapon purchasers to hoard ammo, and not practice, which makes them more dangerous. Some weapons like The Judge for self-defense use 410 gauge plated shot inside the shell. Lead is used in other items beside Ammo and Batteries.

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