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New Government Initiative Would Circumvent Second Amendment By Targeting Ammunition Not Guns

Mac Slavo
February 22nd, 2012
Comments (406)

With over 10 million guns sold in the United States in 2011, violent crime rising significantly as the economic crisis worsens, and self defense killings sky rocketing, it’s becoming increasingly unpopular for politicians to call for restrictions on firearms. If anything, even though government officials in states like Illinois and New Jersey are  attempting to outlaw guns completely, the public outcry has been deafening, with each attempt met by protests and solidarity from individual rights and gun advocates all over the country.

It’s clear that the majority of Americans support their inherent right to bear arms. But, even though the strategy of attacking our second Amendment is wholly unpopular and failing miserably, misguided government officials are beginning to explore ever more novel ways of circumventing the US Constitution and Second Amendment altogether.

Like New Jersey’s recent attempt to ban ammunition, Illinois is now taking aim at ammo. This latest legislation would add a surtax to every box of ammunition sold, and if allowed, would set an alarming precedent that effectively threatens our ability to utilize a firearm for its intended purpose.

State Rep. Kelly Cassidy, in a bill introduced earlier this month, proposed a 2 percent surtax on ammunition. The proceeds would go toward a “high-crime trauma center grant fund,” which would then send the tax money to trauma centers in “high-crime areas.”

The idea is to begin to offset the high cost of gun violence. Mark Walsh, campaign director for the Illinois Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence, told FoxNews.com that cost often ends up being shouldered by these urban trauma centers.

“(The money would go) into communities here in Illinois that have been damaged with gun violence,” he said. “I think it’s a legitimate way to pursue funding.”

“We aren’t causing the problem. They are,” Pearson said. “It’s an attack on firearm owners and their rights. … They think that because we like to target shoot and hunt, we’re bad people, and we should pay for all the ills of the city of Chicago.”

Since gun owners in Illinois have to have a special ID card which requires a background check to obtain, Pearson said those committing crimes of gun violence aren’t likely to be paying much into the proposed tax fund.

“They’re not buying their ammunition (legally). They’re not paying any part of the tax. They’re getting their stuff illegally,” he said.

He estimated a typical box of ammo runs for about $25 in Illinois, meaning the average tax per box would be about 50 cents.

Source: Fox News

Supporters of the new legislation argue that proceeds from this small tax will be used to help the greater community. In this case, we would argue that the  road to hell is paved with good intentions.

The risks of an abusive government having the ability to essentially set the price of a product through taxation is a scary proposition. Anytime government has ever identified a new good or service to tax, if it is allowed to do so, it unabashedly continues to raise those taxes in perpetuity. Gasoline, alcohol and cigarettes are key examples of this. In New York, for example, you pay  more in taxes for a pack of cigarettes than the actual cigarettes. This same model will be introduced to ammunition if the sycophants in our local, state and federal government aren’t stopped.

You can be assured that if legislation like this isn’t stopped swiftly and unequivocally, it will spread like a cancer throughout the rest of the country.  Like cigarettes and booze, ammunition, it will be argued, is a danger to public health and the general welfare, and as such, will require high taxation to cover the adverse social impact it causes. It’s only a 2% tax today, but once the idea takes hold without protest, it will without a doubt lead to massive price increases, leaving many without the ability to exercise a right that is a pillar of the US Constitution.

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Author: Mac Slavo
Date: February 22nd, 2012
Website: www.SHTFplan.com

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  1. Jim (another Jim) says:

    Typical Political Bullcrap. Trying to backdoor approach. Guess I better buy more ammo, sounds like I will always be able to buy a gun. Grin

    • KY Mom says:

      I believe this is a means to slowly disarm the people.
      As stated in a previous article, “In a few generations gun owners will be holding useless relics.”

      Outlaw guns and soon only the outlaws will have guns.

      Time to stock up. I wish more people were awake and aware.

      • Do we need any more proof? It seems every damn day you turn around there is another attack on liberties. This isn’t a mistake. Stock up people, don’t be fooled.


      • durango kidd says:

        Outlaw guns and only Patriots will have guns.

      • TheRevolutionIsNow! says:

        Cattle can’t be disarmed!

      • Joerocker says:

        I think everyone should learn how to “RELOAD” your own ammo.

        easy, fun and usefull.

      • RafterManFMJ says:

        Yawn. Tooling your own 5.56 or .308 repeater is hard. Hand loading, not so much. So buy the ammo while you can… As well as progressive reloaders.

        You see this story as a negative…. No its a recognition by the parasite class they are fighting a rear guard losing action.

        And hey if u still live in Illinois, california or jersy…. Well pal you deserve what u gonna get.

        • I still live IL. In fact I am running for State Senate to ray and stop the gun grabs/ammo taxes and so many other taxes they try to impose. We need to elect good and principled people to office here. Support me financially if you can, or volunteer to help by coming up to walk or make phone calls from home.

        • Katiegirl says:

          So by your comment “And hey if u still live in Illinois, california or jersy…. Well pal you deserve what u gonna get.”

          instead of staying and fighting this parasite class we should run away. Leave the states we where born in,, the land we call home and love. Let theses filthy parasites have my state,, heck with that mentality,, why not give up our guns,, ammo and etc…

          No I think I will stay and fight for what I hold dear..

      • Lord Insidious says:

        You should have been to the Austin Saxet gun show this weekend (Texas spelled backward). It was mobbed. Hundreds of booths, thousands of buyers. Every month the growth is phenomenal. The dealers are selling out. The barrel (ARs) manufacturers are suffering backlogs. Some of the most popular ammo is Russian made sold in bulk (thousand round lots). This is a grand sight to see. Talk to these people. I did. They are not buying for hunting, they buy for personal defense when the system inexorably collapses, or when the government becomes the enemy. They have seen TV with repressed crowds throwing rocks at armed army units. Not in this country. It has gone too far for that. Not in Texas!

        The militia is abuilding, and the Constitution foresaw this. My wife and I felt very comfortable among the folks there. Regular God-fearing country-loving Americans. These people would feel like aliens in NY City, the bastion of liberal, progressive, thought. Liberal used to mean examining all viewpoints. Not anymore. Liberal means accepting one viewpoint, that directed from the top tiers of the Democrat Party.

    • Burt the Brit says:

      Don’t you believe it, they can change things very fast where guns are involved.

      I’d be buying as many as I could, and the ammo to go with them. TPTB just cannot allow citizens to be armed, you may shoot someone important, like a murderer, or rapist or politician. No, no, no, can’t have people running around defending themselves

      Take care

    • laura m. says:

      Jim, etc: Since I have been active in second amendment issues since the late 70’s, I have heard this is the way they will do it. The other way is by ex. orders/martial law/ UN small arms treaty enforced. Making used guns a hassle to buy and sell: new laws having to go to gun dealer to transact a sale, fill out forms, etc. hasn’t passed yet. Best to pay cash for ammo. Husband reloaded for years, (used to deer hunt)quit after y2k scare, sold his reloading kits, has new hobbies. Mike, you’re right, best to all stock up now.

    • Douchemalone says:

      This is what I believe – It may sound tin foil hat nuts: Places like NYC, NJ and IL are “testing grounds” for future plans to expand the police state and phase out the Bill of Rights and Constitution.

      I believe the NYC area is the main area for this. The NYC area has a horrible record of anti-constitutional fascist gun laws, civil rights abuses, police corruption, police violence, and the massive expansion and militarization of the police. The NYPD already wiretaps & searches without warrants, practices something called “Stop and Frisk” which is outright unconstitutional. The NYPD has drones, and has claimed that it has the power to shoot down commercial/civilian aircraft. (It seems like all the mindless NYC/NJ wimpocrats forgot that one quickly! Talk about having a selective memory!) NYC is also a huge nanny state: they want to make it illegal to text or talk on the phone while walking, tax/license bicycles, tax soft drinks, ban smoking out in public. (I am sick of the stupid guilt driven anti-smoking and anti-sugar ads & commercials these Nazis run!) The really scary part is that a lot of the stupid “liberal” wimpocrat lemmings actually support some of these stupid nanny state laws…

      I really hate living in the NYC area, I am surrounded by a bunch of mindless, selfish, money loving, robotic, latte liberal, elitist scumbag yuppies & sociopaths.

      NYC is an over-rated, over-priced shithole. Tons of people living there act like it’s the greatest thing in the world, to live in some crime-filled, crowded, bedbug ridden place that smells like garbage, feces and urine 24/7… There is something about NYC that attracts selfish, mindless idiots that cannot think for themselves. Whenever someone complains to me that they’re always tried of working too much, and never having money, I tell them that living in NJ and NYC is their problem. They’ll get defensive, and act like I am crazy for even suggesting that! I’ve never met such mindless, delusional idiots! Who the fuck would work so hard, just to live in a tiny roach/rat infested shithole walk up that cost 2k+ a month, so that they can live in an area where you can’t even have a car, let alone have a right to protect yourself? Only a mindless drone would do all of these!

      I feel like an alien around these people since if I try to explain something and mention that it is unconstitutional to ban handguns and to blame guns for everything, they’ll act like I’m the one with the problem. I’ve never met such self-centered, delusional, mindless idiots, than I have in NJ and NYC and I grew up here! As soon as I can, I’m getting out and never coming back here!

      Is there anyone else on here, who is stuck in NYC area who knows what I am saying?

    • Redneck2 says:

      It WON’T spread beyond the same fistful of commie states that always were antigun. No more than California’s antigun laws spread to anything more than a fistful of other states. Politicians know who votes for or against them.

    • Don says:

      Chicago’s been doing this for years. They don’t ban guns, they just won’t let you register them. Then, they get you for “not registering.”

  2. Bill says:

    Time to buy reloading equipment. Illinois is a shit state.

  3. VRF says:

    stock up brass, powder, primers and your favorite projectile and build your own, over and over and over.
    Its amazing how far a pound of powder goes.

    there is no winning this one, and if they keep at it eventually they might piss off enough of us that take this right seriously , to the point that any tyranny against our freedom to bear arms , might just get shown what they are for.

    Terrorism comes in all forms, this form is coming from the government.
    Its obvious to me why they are scared..they keep poking the bear, and they are worried that the bear will come after them when its time.
    dont tread on us, and there wont be any reason to fear us

    • CommonSense says:

      VRF, you are right on. I read just yesterday a posting on another site stating the very same thing. Folks like to state “Don’t tread on us. We have a right to own our firearms to hunt and target practice.”
      The 2nd A NEVER WAS intended as a “sporting” right. It was intended for removing the sellout traitors that gain access to the halls of government in this country.

      Lets stop beating around the bush folks. No need to fear. Take a stand and call it what it is, a wolf in sheep’s clothing.

    • Agreed, there is no winning. They’re pushing it through regardless of what we the people want. This will happen in one way or another. Look at SOPA. People got upset and they pushed it aside for the moment, but came back full force with an outside attack with ACTA.


      • Legion911 says:

        HF says;” Agreed, there is no winning.”

        There may not be winning, but there is definitely not winning unless you are willing to stop talking and actually DO SOMETHING!

        If voting actually changed anything it would be illegal.

        When do you stop talking and start resisting? Honorable losing is better than being a lamb to the slaughter.

    • Gregory8 says:

      VRF: the Founding Fathers were traitors and common outlaws to the British. We’ve just changed the name for these kinds of people to make it sound more ominous. If they were alive today, they would be labled terrorists. Any one who dislikes heavy-handed thugs masquerading as politicians and is willing to resist a tyrannical governemnt is labled a terrorist.

      • DomesticTerrorist says:

        The Founders were all terrorists, their supporters were terrorists, hell, Betsy Ross was a terrorist. Samual Adams beer? Named after a terrorist.

        As far as that goes, Henry David Thoreau would be considered a terrorist too, remember he refused to pay a “war tax” and went to jail for a while.

        The Bonus Army of the 1930s, WWI vets who were having a very hard time and hadn’t received a promised bonus, as I understand it, something like mil. retirement that kicked in at age 60 but they wanted to come to some sort of a bargain to get it earlier, kinda like taking SS earlier now, were considered terrorists. The US Army charged in shooting, killing their own veterans.

        Noam Chomsky is probably on a few lists, too. How dare he describe our form of “soft Fascism” so well?

        If you don’t agree with the powers in charge, then you’re a terrorist. It seems the actual *bad-type* terrorists are tiny bunch. For the most part, the term is a badge of honor.

    • Mike says:

      VRF is right,read what Thomas Jefferson said re: a tyrannical/despot government-and what needs to be done–when the time comes and it is approaching fast!

      Hillary has been sent by Obama to the UN to “negotiate” a treaty for the confiscation of our guns etc.Not only here but it is and has happened in other countries!

      Forewarned is being prepared etc!

    • Legion911 says:

      Time to start taking potshots at enforcement vehicles.

      //My name is Legion for we are many. We do not forget. We do not forgive. Expect us//

      • Bill says:

        Bad idea. Just saying…..

      • Anonymous says:

        That will just give them another reason to crack down on weapons

        • RafterManFMJ says:

          Who cares? Either my name is legion will do as he says or they will hire someone to false flag the same. Good lord.

          Some idiot or some false flag and then Oblamo with a solemn speech to register all guns.

          And by the way ‘our name is legion’ is a cool biblical quote; I’ve been giving my name as Legion on government forms for 20 years…..

      • Thomas Nelson says:

        No No that’s why they want to take away are Guns Legion911 I think you joking to see how many people you get to reply but still think bad idea

      • Hey You says:

        Face up to facts. We, the people, are simply too un-organized to initiate any sort of uprising. Pot shots at vehicles will only increase pressure.

        The way things are going, there will probably be a depression which will entail more currency printing. The result will be death of the dollar. At that time, it will be an opportunity to decentralize. Cut the ties which bind to us to a failed federal government. We can’t take back our country, but we can live in a local jurisdiction which is not totally self-seeking.

        • sicktoad says:

          I’m not buying gold, I’m buying lead.

        • Patriot says:

          sicktoad says:
          February 23, 2012 at 12:59 pm

          “I’m not buying gold, I’m buying lead.”

          Lead is nice, but you can’t consume it. The question arises how many rounds are necessary? For a Lone Ranger fighting off hordes of infected Zombies it’s undoubtedly thousands upon thousands are necessary. Probably more than one man can realistically acquire and store. For a man seeking to protect his property over an extended period of time, it may be no more than a few hundred. For an organized insurgent it’s only as much as he can reasonably carry with him at one time. Non perishable Food and water is premium. You no eaty, you no drinky, you no can do nothing else.

      • Lol, yeah that’s smart. Stay on your side of the fence. You’re going to take pot shots? If you’re the one encouraging people to throw down, then man up and throw down. Pot shots… lol.

      • Legion911 says:

        “hidden due to low comment rating”

        Sheep & pussies. Talk the talk, but don’t walk the walk. If voting actually changed anything it would be illegal.

        The founding fathers and their crew were domestic terrorists. History belongs to the victors.

      • Kevin says:

        They threaten me or my family or threaten to take my property it will happen! However, taking potshots @ them is also an effective idea as they will begin to fear us!

      • Patriot says:

        Do what you want but remember there are consequences to every action. One man taking potshots is a criminal. Thousands of men taking potshots is an army. Just something to keep in mind. Lone Ranger only wins in the movies. They can’t stop you from organizing as long as you are not committing crimes. Street Gangs aren’t even technically illegal, just their usual activities. Just something to think about boys.

        • DirkB says:

          Actually they are attempting to stop organizing, have you read the memo sent from the FBI to FFL dealers asking them to report anyone people talking to each other about buying bulk ammo? The FBI claims this is a sign of domestic terrorism and should be reported, I know this is real because I was personally shown this letter by a dealer so it’s no scare tactic.

        • Patriot says:

          “Actually they are attempting to stop organizing, have you read the memo sent from the FBI to FFL dealers asking them to report anyone people talking to each other about buying bulk ammo? The FBI claims this is a sign of domestic terrorism and should be reported, I know this is real because I was personally shown this letter by a dealer so it’s no scare tactic.”

          They can try but they won’t be successful. They’ve spent literally tens of billions of dollars over the years trying to crack down on gangs engaging in “illegal” activity and the problem has just gotten worse. In fact, it has exploded over the last 10 years. Even then, there is a difference in getting the public to accept a crack down on “gangs” than on law abiding citizens peacefully assembling. It’s a hot button issue they don’t exactly know how to approach. That’s why they try to use agent provocateurs to infiltrate militias an other patriot groups to try to promote illegal activity. One certainly has to keep their eyes and ears open to look for nuts calling for things that would land you in prison. Everyone needs to remember that it’s preparing to protect yourself for SHTF, not open insurrection against the federal government. People don’t even have to worry about taking the fight to the government. If they want war they will bring it to you. That’s how it works.

          There are some very good signs that people are preparing for the inevitable life after the DC federal government, which is morally and fiscally insolvent. Wyoming just announced plans to study possible contingency plans for the when the DC federal government becomes obsolete. This will only be the tip of the iceberg

    • MXLord327 says:

      A pound of powder equal less than 70 rounds for my .300 Winchester Magnum, but about 2500 for the 9mm. Somewhere in between for the .45 ACP, 7.62×39, .44 Magnum, .308 Winchester, .30-06, and .35 Remington that I also reload for.

  4. Mike says:

    Just another attempt by legislators to regulate everything. If a conservative doesn’t like guns, he doesn’t buy one; if a liberal doesn’t like then, he wants to regulate them.

    Buy more ammo before its too late.

  5. Prepping Preacher says:

    wasn’t something very similar to this tried already somewhere in the U.S. and the Courts struck it down as infringement..??

    whether or not it has, buy more and keep it all dry and very close

    • Beefcake says:

      My concern is that Freedom Group is going around and buying up all the ammo and gun manufacturers. It’s not tied to Soros as the rumors state but who Freedom Group is really controlled by and what the end game is, it can’t be good.

      • Paranoid says:

        Relax, the equipment required to make even good quality guns is now so obsolete. It’s a joke, even worse I’ve got an 03 in the basement, nearly 100 years old , that’s still very serviceable. The only thing that can ever be a problem are primers, Thanks to Obama the American public has stocked up on them by several Billion.

        • Beefcake says:

          primers are easy, just remove the anvil, pound out the dent in the cup with a flat punch, shave the white heads off strike anywhere matches, fill reshaped primer cup with match head shavings, place anvil back in, press into brass, and voila. Now making smokeless powder is tricky let alone knowing it’s burn rate for specific loads if you do manage to tame a nitro cellulose mixture.


        • Gunsmith says:


          Correct, sir!

          However, I’d recommend one additional step for safety reasons…

          If I remember correctly, those white match tips are pure potassium chlorate & will ignite under pressure while dry (i.e. grinding into powder)!!!!

          Therefore, pour shaved match heads into tray & soak/submerge in rubbing alcohol…grind/mix into thick paste & fill primer cups & install anvil…allow time for alcohol base to evaporate…

          Excellent post, sir! Thanks for the reminder.

          BTW, I have the recipe for gun-cotton if you want to try it!!!

        • Beefcake says:


          I never did the rubbing alcohol thing I was always careful but thanks for tip. You should post how to do gun cotton I had a recipe for magician paper somewhere can’t find it at the moment, same stuff.

        • Beefcake says:

          Oh FYI on homemade primers, treat cleaning routine as you would with corrosive surplus ammo because I heard they can pit your bore same way.

        • DomesticTerrorist says:

          Gosh durn all this talk about primers being hard to do …. I agree they are, it might be time to re-think how it’s done. We know a whole lot more now than mssrs. Boxer and Berdan did ‘way back when.

  6. kevin says:

    http://www.housedem.state.il.us/members/cassidyk/ Look at that face. Another hateful commie lesbian wrecking the country in my eyes. This lady has been a public “servant” ALL HER LIFE, only working for the gubmint. WHO will run this “grant fund”?????? A den of theives they are.

  7. kevin says:

    http://www.myfoxchicago.com/dpp/wildcard_8/foxchicagosunday/illinois-lawmakers-kelly-cassidy-gay-same-sex-marriage-fox-chicago-sunday-20120210 LESBIAN COMMIE!! For you haters out there, thats not insulting her,just saying a spades a spade, she would probably take it as a compliment, I’m sure.

  8. JRS says:

    Just another example of the corp govt picking our pockets and putting it into someone elses pocket. Unfortunately it will probably become statute because they are disguising it as “help for trauma centers”. I wonder how much will actually get there? Here in my state they have a “temporary tax” on liquor to pay for the 1936 Johnstown flood. It’s a shame that once these taxes are passed they will never come off the books. “THEFT AT THE POINT OF A GUN”

    • Burt the Brit says:

      Hi JRS, thank you for spotting my little mistake in the way I spelled my name, I hadn’t noticed…burt is a disguise you see lol.

      Anyway back to topic…whilst never liberal, our gun laws were far better even a few years ago than they are now, a couple of people go mad and do a mass shooting and that was that.

      We even have regulations and licensing for plinkers…what do you call them…air guns, with metal pellets. It is crazy, the bad boys already have weaponry, it’s the Reston us that aren’t allowed them.

      There is a five year prison term for even making a bb gun look real, ie, painting it black….total madness,in the meantime the gangs go around shooting at random, killing and maiming innocents in the crossfire.

      Crossbows are being looked at now, it is illegal here to shoot anything, even rats so TPTB say h well if they are to allowed to use them no need to have them…let’s ban them as well.

      Handguns are banned full stop, just owning one is illegal, as is any semi or fully automatic weapon or a shotgun with a barrel shorter than a state decided length.

      Knives are banned outside of the home, unless they are designated pocket knives of a given size and blade length.

      I would go on but it gets boring after a while.

      Buy and stash them while you can would be my advice, it really can change over night.

      Take care

      • Ohevi says:

        Where the hell do you live? Dammit move!

        • lonelonmum says:

          Ohevi- The United Kingdom and yep it’s crazy. Yet we have the same gang related violence etc in some areas that you do in some parts of the US.

          Here’s what happened to a farmer who tried to defend himself when his house was broken into

          Every sensible house wife has a cast iron skillet she knows how to swing ; )

          You have to be careful here even when the scum are invading your own home. Use “excessive force” and you not the criminal will be the one doing jail time.

      • Jim (another Jim) says:

        Dang Burt, I didnt realize it was that bad there. It sounds like the plot to a scary movie. Coming soon to America unless we stand up and say enough

      • Slick says:

        Burt the Brit,
        You said something on a previous post that has been nawing at me.
        I hate to use you as an example, because I like your perspective and enjoy reading your posts.
        You asked Mac, to sensor somebody who you said wrote a vial post about killing and torchering people….
        Now, it may have been everything that you claimed the post to be.
        But many Americans take a little something we call the 1st Amendment very seriously.
        So most of us are reluctant to use the term “sensor someone”.
        Let me explain,
        You see, the 1st Amendment is there to protect an individual who is using unpleasant speech.
        No one in any country gives a shit about someone using pleasant speech.
        The 1st Amendment allows us to be honest, emotional, and graphic in conversation, or voicing a grievence.
        To Macs credit, he almost never sensors a post.
        I suspect his desire to allow true, honest discussion and debate, as well as his appreciation of the 1st Amendment to voice ” speech that may be unpleasant ” even to him” is a motivating factor.
        My intention is to give you insight into a freedom loving American’s mind.
        Best of luck to you and yours in that oppressive, socialist shit hole.
        We appear to be not to far behind if we maintain our current path.
        Long live Danial Hannan!

        • eddie says:


          You see, Burt the Brit is simply another of many hypocrites that post on here. I saw the post you mentioned, disagreed with what was said by that idiot that was probably trying to stir up trouble…….. and I saw Burts quick response, and was surprised mac took it down actually. Burt the Brit is Burt the TWIT…and I’m sorry to say that now the first amendment does not exist even here.

      • DomesticTerrorist says:

        Burt I grew up walking all over my neighborhood with a BB gun, a Crosman 760, every parent *knew* I could be trusted with it since my Mom had told me, ONE BB goes where it’s not supposed to, and she’s taking it away. I also had a Ka-Bar knife at about age 11, never cut myself with it since I’d gotten that out of my system with pocket knifes from about age 8 on. I likewise ventured all over the place with that knife, generally in some cool scabbard made of cardboard I’d made.

        For daily carry I always have a Swiss army knife on me, very handy thing, but it’s amazing the looks I get sometimes when I take that out to do something.

    • 10mm says:

      I always say Johnstown should keep getting flooded so I can see my tax on booze going to its intended cause.Good ole Pennsyltucky.More state politicians per sq feet.

    • Highspeedloafer says:

      Just like some of the old telephone company taxes. They never go away.

  9. don't-tread says:

    Lead,brass and copper could someday be worth more than silver and gold.

  10. MM2Nuke says:

    Its pretty sad when you have to go to ebay to find tin to alloy lead with since the normal suppliers are all out!

  11. possee says:

    I’d be even more concerned with the new small arms treaty with the UN..


  12. David says:

    I dont live in the USA – I live in Australia. I don’t pretend to understand you taxation system or your county’s debt of $14 trillion but I do understand mine. We have a Goods and Services tax of 10% on pretty much everything. Consequently, Australia is pretty solvent – unlike America. We also don’t shoot each other very much. I like that about my country.

    I appreciate your point about Government fixing the price. I assume its because you feel the Goverment cant be trusted to set this price according to the public interest. If so, it sounds like you need a new government… or a new system of governance.

    You’ve got a 2 party political system that is completely subservient to corporations and banks. A private organization owns your currency for goodness sake! : the Federal Reserve. You’ve got much bigger problems than a tax on ammunition to worry about.

    The contribution of the USA to global prosperity is completely undermined by your habit of creating war and debt. Please stop it.

    • David,

      WE KNOW!!! But, most of the crowd here would agree with you on almost every point. The rest of the problems would cure themselves if we could get our government to fix your very last point: the war and debt.

      Let me send an apology to you from half a world away: many of us are extremely sorry for what our District of Criminals do once they’re off their leash. We try, we really do but they buy off so many people and, well, its a mess.

      The real men in the USA don’t shoot each other too much. There is a class of subhumans in a lot of the bigger cities that tend to try and annihilate each other. Thats where most of the shootings come from. That and a few sociapaths that make the news. Its really not all that bad. But, the debt and the wars, they are bad.

      Please, keep telling us to stop. Some can’t hear you.

    • DomesticTerrorist says:

      A good part of the US has a “sales tax” that ranges from 8-12%. Hawaii has a “general excise tax” of 4%, and doesn’t tax food, at one extreme, the other I’ve seen is Arizona, 11-12% and yes, they’ll tax your banana. It seems to be higher in more republican states and lower in more heavily democratic states.

      In California it’s 8.25% or so, and California sends more money to the rest of the US than it gets. We also have a fairly low rate of gov’t dependency (welfare, food stamps, etc) there’s an interactive map out there online that shows various parts of the US and how many are on the gov’t teat – again, more so the more “conservative”, less so the more “liberal”.

      No I don’t even show up on the political map myself. I’m closest to Ron Paul and that’s out around the orbit of Pluto or so.

    • Bill D. says:

      Guess you don’t remember 1941 very well do you ?
      If not for us and our guns you would be drinking saki not fosters, mate.
      From what I understand when your great gov’t took away your guns not everyone was happy. And your crime rate hasn’t exactly gone don either has it ?
      Take you anti-gun anti-USA crap somewhere else.

    • Kevin says:

      Excuse me but I do believe you are a participant of the jew debt currency! You’re also part of the problem! Kudahfi wasn’t and look what happened to him! The solution is to shoot every person in authority who threatens you or your family or your property!

    • Mr. Mojo says:

      I though Australia outlawed personal possession of firearms.

  13. I’ve three reloading presses, and in general attempt to keep a certaim minimum number of rounds for each caliber I have, or guage for that matter. I’m not going to quote numbers.

    Why do I do this? It is not for the article above, rather it stems from growing up in a wilderness area where we hunted & fished for our protein. Ammo was expensive as we were “poor”. I can remember haing one box of .410 shells to last me the season. I picked my shots and when I took three shells out hunting I’d better come home with one bird and two shells left, or another combo of the same. I’m not ashamed to “ground pound” a bird, nor am I ashamed to use a worm to catch a freshwater trout, use corn or miniature marshmallows. It is a means to an end and the end is my stomach. My ancestors did that, my family did that and I still do it today.

    IF you are a “conservative”, this means you conserve whatever resources you have, this can mean a multiple of things, I don’t feel like writing an essay today so will leave you-all to ponder that.

    I stock up on EVERYTHING, prepare for the worst and hope for the best. I’m glad I’m married to a like minded woman.


  14. Zoltanne says:

    One word: RELOAD

    • Paranoid says:

      Truthfully, I have been buying ammo for less than the components cost. Stay with the military cal. and it’s not that hard. I keep 10,000 primers just because they are small

  15. Karl says:

    If the bigger question is unpaid health care costs in trauma centers, how about covering the costs with community assessment fees on the areas where the violence occurs? I agree that the hospitals, who are forced by law to provide care, shouldn’t be the ones that constantly foot the bill. However, making the connection to ammo will set an extremely dangerous precedent that will only lead to future tax increases as it becomes the new sin tax.

  16. VRF says:

    The “fund” will just be another abused fund..like most all of them are.
    maybe they need to stop patching up the perps.

    • salvadordaly says:

      “The proceeds would go toward a “high-crime trauma center grant fund,”

      WTF WTF WTF, God damn it! I am so sick and tired of all this BS! Take from someone give to another. STOP IT! STOP IT! They are going to push “me” Us, to the fricking end! LEAVE US ALONE! What in the hell will this “fund” fund? Trauma center? The reason it’s a high crime area is their own fault not because a right to carry states problem. TAKE IT FROM YOUR TAX PAYERS!!!!!!!! This is not how I wanted to strt my morning! I am just one person, that this will not affect unless they pass it on bullet manufacturing materials. IT IS WRONG! This is the exact reson I bought a reloader, just in case you can not get ammo. GOD DAMN IT, I AM MAD AS HELL AND I’M NOT GOING TO TAKE IT ANYMORE, MY LIFE HAS VALUE!!!!!!!!!!
      Every one make sure you reach out to State Rep. Kelly Cassidy @

      Rep. Kelly Cassidy
      14th District

      District Information
      5535 N. Broadway
      Chicago, IL 60640
      (773) 784-2002
      (773) 784-2060 (fax)

      Capitol Office
      273-S Stratton Building
      Springfield, IL 62706
      (217) 782-8088
      (217) 782-6592 (fax)

      email: [email protected]

      Just send a nice note to let her know to leave us the fuck alone!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

      Have a nice day damn it!!!!

      • salvadordaly says:

        And I know it is a state issue, BUT THAT DOES NOT MAKE IT RIGHT!!!! Next up is your state!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

      • Kevin says:

        Didn’t you read the guy’s comments that read if voting were effective it’d be illegal. Just paraphrasing. If you currently vote you are voting for an insurgent who can do anything they want. You are considered the rebel in the 14th amendment and they are the insurgents. You vote for the insurgents then you are also a traitor to the de jure constitution, which is no longer in existence. That’s right! If they decide to come down on us you can be imprisoned or shot for treason. They are protected as you voted for them.

  17. Kevin2 says:

    The anti gun people will knock on every door, jiggle every lock, attempt to open every window and lie like a rug to achieve their goals. They love using police in uniform which are forced to stand behind an anti gun politician while inhibiting a pro gun officer from doing the same. Fortunately the more the anti gun people cried about “gun violence” (never seen a gun commit a crime) the more people went out and bought a gun to defend themselves. I guess taking a page out of the United Kingdom’s book did not work well with Americans; we’re citizens not subjects.

    No group is perfect but the NRA is the most powerful grass roots organization in the US. When it’s membership is motivated it bites back politically hard, very hard.

    Anyone heard from former NJ Governor Jim Florio?

    • DomesticTerrorist says:

      I agree support the NRA, the NRA-ILA, and just to be sure, the other groups such as GOA, etc.

      • Kevin2 says:

        You have to stand and be counted. I can’t count the times I attended rallies, worked voter registration tables and similar for the Second Amendment. I met some interesting people too along the way including Steven Stegall, Joe Foss, Aaron Zelman, Neal Knox, Wayne LaPierre and Charlton Heston; great men all. I had the PLEASURE to be part of the political opposition to Jim Florio and all but two Democrats in NJ watching them go down in a massive defeat in the early 90s. That was a lot of fun.

        Second Amendment advocates have conviction of purpose. As long as they are in sufficient number the anti gun people cannot make inroads.

      • sootsme says:

        Check out National Association for Gun Rights http://www.nagr.org
        Like the NRA with teeth. And NAGR’s Pres. does not pose for arm in arm photo ops with Harry Reid, as has Wayne LaPierre (NRA President)

  18. RandomTangent1957 says:

    I think we should just tax Eric Holder @ 100% for all of the Fast & Furious guns he put on the street ! What a bunch of hypocrisy by the elitist Marxists . Welcome to the Unified Socialists of Absurdistan….land of the Fee , home of the Slave

    • Donald Clark says:

      For Random Tangent

      Well said! “Absurdistan” That’s one to remember.
      From the lack of action regarding Eric Holder’s obvious involvement in ‘Fast and Furious’, this disgusting criminal act will have to be resolved at the ballot box, with all the other Obama crimes, including the BIG CONSPIRACY: I watched Supreme Court Justice Clarence Thomas say recently: “we’re avoiding that one” when asked about Obama’s eligibility. Absurdistan is very descriptive. Election Day can’t come too soon.

  19. Yes, reloading equipment would be the order of the day. That goes for anytime, not just now. A real money saver.

    Also, haven’t we seen this kind of government interference with everything else? This is no surprise. They have screwed the price of gasoline, alcohol, food, tobacco, and yes, the price of ammo has been getting hammered for years. Everything that can be taxed, is, and heavily. So don’t fret, work around them.

    Oh no, cigarettes are fucking crazy,…I roll my own.

    Oh no, food is outrageous expensive,…I grow my own.

    Oh no, ammo prices are screwed,…I load my own.

    Seeing the trend here? Fuck em.

    • VRF says:

      one of the silly things that hits with me on all this second amendment infringement is , they cant legislate the fact that any intelligent person can fabricate a gun and a projectile to be fired from that tool..its not rocket science. That technology is old school.

      as far as taxing ammo to fund a medical “need”, is stupid.
      If the person was a criminal that ended up at the hospital, than someones not doing their job..this tells me we need more trained owners of guns, to be a better shot, not a tax on ammo.

      • You got it. Never underestimate the ingenuity of the human mind. We are powerful, magnificent beings capable of great feats and the ability to overcome and adapt to almost any diversity.

        Take care

      • sootsme says:

        Self defense is a GOD given right. Our 2nd Amendment merely supports our status as Sovereign Citizens- the equals of kings, popes & presidents. Just cuz this is no longer taught in public school doesn’t mean it ain’t so. Now, “we the people” just need to act like it…

    • manos says:


      And then they will tax reloading machines, they will tax crop cultivation, they will tax cigarette rolling paper, they will tax water purification filters, they will tax the toilet paper.

      And finally they will leave us with no exit at all. and then…..

      We have a saying in Greece:

      “When you put the cat in the corner beware; it will attack and take off your eyes”.

      So much stupidity gathered up in the hierarchy.

      • Hi Manos,

        You’re right, eventually everything will be taxed to death. Yet, I think the system will cave in on itself long before we get to a point where the self reliant cannot find a legitimate way around it. I could be wrong, but so far it has worked out for me.

        Take care and stay safe!

        • Since it is tax revenue that our government is after, why not tax the government officeials for each law they vote in that doesn’t do the job it was intended?

          Then they would start to feel the heavy hand of a personal tax burden. I like this idea.

        • manos says:


          If they do it, the amount of money that will be gathered globally, is going to exceed imagination levels.

          Their job is to vote crappy laws that will keep the system alive.

          Our job is to speak up.

        • sootsme says:

          How ’bout whoever wants a new law has to share the cost for 3 years, then if it’s worthwhile everyone kicks in; otherwise it just goes away. also, how ’bout the leader of any jurisdiction has to stand in the public square once a year, and recite the whole of the law, and anything left out is not law… Likely would pare down to the 10 Commandments, or better yet, the Golden Rule. (And no, I don’t mean “whoever has the gold makes the rule.”)

      • Anonymous says:

        Next they will tax you to have a job………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………

      • Anonymous says:

        If we use it or consume it they’ll try to tax it. Their even going to try to limit well water usage. By regulating that wells will have to have meters to measure usage, in order to tax us.

        • eeder says:

          hahahaha, good one . i dont reccomend any official from any government or like agency of any sort try coming near my well.though we do have the health unit that thinks they have authority over sewage systems. I do not reccomend they ever try to come near my septic system either. it would not be a wise or prudent decision for them to act on.

    • Kevin2 says:


      With your attitude your an asset to have. Do yourself and us a favor, quit smoking.

    • akvalmet30 says:

      Right on man, you rock! Fuck’em should be the National Slogan.

    • anymice says:

      Mr. JoeRepublic, well said good sir, and I’d like to add one:

      Oh no, alcohol is expensive,… I brew my own (and it’s fun).

  20. Tomas says:

    Ahhhhhh! It hurts my head! How come every liberal answer to crime is to punish the law abiding? It because they know the criminals could give a [email protected]&$, which is actually the problem, not ammo, or guns.

  21. Ohevi says:

    Is this really a surprise? The real terrorists are stripping away the freedoms of true Americans.

  22. DPS says:

    Help them save money on ER bills, Learn to shoot better I say. ER bills are very high compared to a funeral bill.


  23. Stan522 says:

    American is the frog in the pot of water on the stove approaching the boiling point. Will we collectively jump out, or simply be someone’s meal–?

    We have turned into such a pathetic group of people ever so willing to give up our freedoms one at a time…..

  24. blackriflewarrior says:

    Shitcago is the cause of all of Illinois problems. It is a giant rat filled sewer and it should be bull-dozed. I happen to be unfortunate enough to live in the Peoples Republic of Illinois and I hate it. I only stay because I can’t leave my sons who have their own homes. The ISRA has an event every year called IGOLD when we go to Springfield and lobby our “officials” to “allow” us to carry concealed. The people I meet from counties other than CROOK, where SHITCAGO is, absolutely despise the city. Our JOKE of a governor, Pat Quinn, is a coward and a eunich. The state is broke, dirt broke, and this bullshit is only an attempt to raise revenue and continue to deprive us of our 2A RIGHTS. I wish the city of SHITCAGO would slide into the lake and take all the liberals, queers, weirdos, thieves, gang members, Rham-boy, and all of his piece of shit cronies, along with it. The city is a huge toilet overflowing with brown fecal matter and it need to be flushed.

    • Jim (another Jim) says:

      And Detriot is Michigan’s. Maybe we can do a two for one price. They are close enough to eachother

    • eeder says:

      sounds like what i have to deal with in these parts with both toronto and ottawa, the provincial and federal capitals , not to mention the largest and fith largest cities in canada. i really wish we could separate the province of ontario from them.

    • Dang, BRW, I don’t even live there and I’m shocked.

      I live “nearby” and I won’t spend a dime in your state. Sorry, there are probably some states on the east coast that are worse but Idk.

      Chin up! Illinois is a beautiful state. Kind of like a beautiful dress on a beautiful woman with a turd hanging off the northern end. Thats REALLY the problem.

      In EVERY state, you will notice that the bigger the biggest city is, the worse its gun laws. Did anyone ever mention to the king morons that when you outlaw guns it takes it from the law abiding and does NOTHING to curb possession by criminals? …and those same criminals are now emboldened to do the beat down on citizens because there is NO CHANCE they’ll be opposed with any sizeable force equaling their ILLEGAL gun?

      Politicians feign incompetence but in reality, they want us helpless. I think it was Manos in a message above that said they want to block all the exits and make us totally dependent. Good luck! If they outlaw what common law guarantees me, they’ll get what common law provides as remedy for self defense.

    • Douchemalone says:

      The same goes for NY, and NJ. I am unfortunate to be living in this area right now.. Ever noticed all the fascist states usually have huge liberal cities? NYC is the main reason why NJ and NY have horrible gun laws and other problems. NYC is a huge drain on NY state, and other neighboring states like NJ. NY state is broke because of NYC. NYC is a fascist, crime filled bunghole, which is the center of Wall Street greed and corruption. NYC is an inhumane, crowded dirty, overrated, crime filled, expensive, crumbling city, full of fascist cops & politicians who do not support the bill of rights or the constitution. Everyday, since last summer I would hear on the news, about an attempted rape, or rape. About 1-2 weeks ago, a woman was raped in a subway station by an ex con with a screw driver, inside of a dirty subway tunnel. Yet NYC would rather strip women of their rights to bear arm, and allow them to be victims of rape, end up with HIV/STDs. Instead of wasting tons of money locking up these rapist, these POS need to get shot in the nutsack and die. Any place this vile and corrupt needs to get out of the US and sink into the ocean.

  25. Gods Creation says:

    “and if allowed, would set an alarming precedent that effectively threatens our ability to utilize a firearm for its intended purpose.”

    The politicians need to be shown the intended purpose long before the threat becomes real.

  26. Walt Kowalski says:

    Hmmmmmm…..if they implement extremely high taxes on ammo, it will serve to create yet market for smuggling.

    Sounds like a new career opportunity to me.

    (Hey…before you flame me, just realize that many of our founding fathers were smugglers. It’s just another form of resistance to tyranny)

    • VRF says:

      Black market Bullets

    • No thumbs down from me. …just maybe a business proposal.


      Look, this is all legal stuff applying to persons. Since I’m a natural person, I look at things different from trusted or proper persons. They try to make you think opposing legalities is dishonorable, but, as I have been studying it I have learned that its not just honorable, it is HIGH honor to oppose it and circumvent it. The founders of the uSA were smugglers, cop killers and assassins. I’ve lived thus far without being any of those and I am wondering if that is why we have the government we have. We’ve, frankly, wimped out.

      “Under common law, I do not consent and I waive the benefits.”

      There are a whole lot of things that become attainable under lawful operation once you find yourself with enough courage to say it.

  27. mike says:

    I’ve said this before on this site. This isn’t about taxing ammo. This is leading to a national database on ammo with ID cards for purchasing. They will track reloading too. There are consumables that we all buy when reloading.

    Things will begin to move quickly. Things like this will come from every angle.

    • eric says:

      I agree with you in a few months they will start trying to pass all sorts of crazy laws. thank god at least we have the GOP in the house. without it the dems would be running wild all over us. I hope we get the senate too, to stop Obama. I have a feeling it will be close with him being re-elected and my god I can’t stand obama. I wish ron paul would have a chance but looking at gingrich and first choice rick santorium. I dont like his stance on abortion but believe rapped women and very early pregnacy can have them but they have to pay for it. but yes reload my friends its eazy to do once you start. slowly buy a box here and there and before you know it you have thousands of rounds. dont forget about shotgun, probably the best defense and the easiest to hit your target inside your home and at door entrys for people that are not accurate with a pistol or rifle. 12 gauge buckshot, or they have some defender rounds that have a slug and 3 buckshot balls.

      • kevin says:

        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GEYwVb-6TeE This is a video mouseland. Maybe you should watch this. Mouse voting for cats. NOTHING has changed with the gop in charge of the house. They passed the the ndaa didn’t they? Please explain why you “thank god” they are in the house??? What in the heck have they done?

        • eric says:

          they have done nothing but at least they have stopped the dems from passing every single law that they can without them. that is why Im glad they stopped the dems. Like i said otherwise they could pass any damn law they wish.

        • Slick says:

          I thank God because that’s all they have done, and it must be overturned soon!
          The Republicans are without a doubt, the lesser of 2 evils when it comes to gun rights.
          It’s not even close.
          The day your precious dems start supporting the 2nd Amendment like the Republicans do,
          I will give names to the little pigs that fly out of my ass.

        • Gridlock is our best ally, unfortunately, its not enough.

          The Judge told it when he said, “What if the two party system is just a method to limit public opinion?” (paraphrased)

      • Highspeedloafer says:

        I am a registered republican, but I am ashamed of my party. I would not trust the GOP if they won the senate the house and the white house. They are all crooks, out to destroy our way of life. I do trust Ron Paul and judge Napalitano. Maybe one or two others can be trusted but thats about it. We need a bonefied revolution in this country, nothing else can save us.

    • the watcher says:

      Already happening in Cali. Look around, the room is getting smaller.

      • mike says:

        @Watcher: Everyday I spend a couple hours reading something that takes me in a different direction that evil is trying to control the world. It is exhausting.

        Everything I have ever been taught doesn’t seem completely factual. I was taught that good and evil had borders. It seems as though it transcends borders like religious beliefs. Evil has no allegience to anyone but themselves and agenda. Bankers here supporting Germany during WWII while soldiers actively faught them? Governments stealing from citizens to enslave them? This is shit you don’t learn from any high school or college. But the pieces fit. That is what freaks me out.

        Make no mistake. There is good and evil in this world. It isn’t about Dems vs Repubs, nor china, or Iraq. It is something entirely more sinister than most people can comprehend.

        But for me anyway, the education process is still in the infancy stage and it is both mind blowing and terrifying.
        There are times when I just have to leave it for a while. But once I started reading and learning, there was no turning back, I need to know more.

        • Tina says:

          YES…it has all been “written”

        • Circus Maximus of Pain says:

          Mike If you need to know more I have the answers for you if you think you can actually handle it. This is what is happening and why it is happening to our civilization.


        • Mike, go to YouTube and search for “Sons Of Darkness Sons Of Light” it give you the why. Once you understand the why, you can start seeing the who very clearly. I rewatch SD/SL every few months. Each time, I get more resolute and more sure what what the criminal bastard class is beholden to. Keep studying, but most of all, keep planting seeds in such places as forums and people you talk to online and offline.

          There is a massive wake up coming. Some of the sheople are starting to get it. I know its frustrating, but come back here and let loose. Many of us have been right where you are now, years ago.

          Godspeed to you!

        • mike says:

          Netranger: I couldn’t answer you below so hope this finds you. I started learning 2 years ago. It has taken me in many different directions. Most of them up until a few days ago were describing to me a battle that I would fight and would most likely not see the end. But a few days ago I found a site that had some Ben Bulford info on it. He was saying that there are two factions battling behind the scenes for good and evil. Both incredibly powerful and influential. It gave me some hope that we would not simply self destruct. I need to learn more though.

          As far as telling everyone. I don’t say anything about my personal preps anymore. People think I am crazy. A good friend of mine went so far as to say that he would be helping the police if martial law was declared. I made a mental inventory of his weapons.

          I really appreciate people on this site. I will look up the info you gave me. I am always learning for eveyone here.

    • Anonymous says:

      Mike, just continue to stock up on those consumables. We do. Our friends do. This has been ongoing for years, now.
      Everything involved lasts a long time.

  28. eric says:

    jesus they are wanting every single cent they can find for all the deadbeats in that state that is the real reason. So finding anothe way to get revenue huh illinois. Why dont you just ask for 10,000 dollars from the money we give to foriegn aid for every soldier out of illinois who is hurt or shot and give that soldier a portion of it for “trama” and and a very few to your state for the money we send and subtract that out of foreign aid of your favorite country you bastards.

  29. rock says:

    Well come on, you cant police an armed nation. Just keep giving the people bread and circus,bread and circus,and after awhile the people will just give them up on their own accord! Yeah that will be the Day. HAHAHA. They will strip away all the means you have to take care of yourselves and family. Why, so they can get you completely in their system, come on in to our nice camps we have prepared, its safe, there’s food,shelter,all you have to do is sign away your freedom and therefor your life. Come on down to the hotel CaLiForRniaaaa…… Good luck with that.

  30. Charles Bronson says:

    I’d like to take Kelly hunting/camping in the hood.

  31. RICH99 says:

    So health care only costs me 50 cents for twenty five rounds?

  32. Fed Up says:

    What a bunch of backward or should I say cirular logic! Instead of looking at reality (law abiding folks don’t use their guns/ammo to hold up a store or harm their fellow man, the thugs do), the politicians use the bullsh!t of funding a “good cause” to justify their real motives of removing rights from lawful folks. The rapists, robbers, muggers, etc. all have guns/ammo and they didn’t go through a NICS check to get them! If the thugs can’t afford to pay for their gun fights, it is not the responsibility of those uninvolved to fund their care (or anyone else’s). If a charity wants to pay the bills in “trauma centers” then fine, but don’t rape the rest of us into doing it.

    This is just another way for TPTB to rape the common man into funding more of the gov.corp’s crap. I sure as heck hope the folks in Illinios don’t allow this to go through because if they do it, I’m sure other states will follow and as others have said, once the tax is in place it will keep going up and never dissappear.

  33. I’m getting nervous about my guns because I bought them all from FFL’s. Can you guys suggest a web site were individuals sell firearms?

    • mike says:

      TJ: go to armslist and search your relevent state

    • mirbach says:

      My FFL dealers have told me that the paperwork for any firearm transaction not involving a class 2 item is kept by the dealer, it isn’t sent to any agency or entered into any official database. If the dealer goes out of business or has a fire, the records are lost. I like dealing with elderly dealers close to retirement in ramshackle wooden structures.

      I like GunBroker dot com, but mostly from the buy side of the transaction.

    • JRS says:

      TJ…Go to a gun show or a local public sale. No paperwork for most long guns (in my state). You can also set up a trust and have your guns registered under it. Therefore, with any FFL guns they will be in the trust name and not your own.

    • JustMe says:

      On your knees, slave.

    • Paranoid says:

      Go to gun shows. To replace all the ones you lost n the boat accident

    • DieselDan says:

      Do not buy off the net if you don’t want a trail, our newspaper classifieds still have them as mentioned above gun shows from private citizens. If you think those instant background checks are not being recorded then you deserve what you get when the Gestapo comes knocking. Also any gun made before 1899 is not federally considered a firearm but most will still shoot bullets. And lastly black powder in most states are unregistered with no checks to buy and will also kill untill dead with some well placed shots!!! I will never again buy a registered gun, I’d rather take my chances with a sling shot then show my cards to the all knowing gooberment!!!

  34. big john says:

    I live in the crap hole they call a state. No carry in the state. Chicago gun laws are even more restrictive.

    The state of IL is in debt, full of corruption, and a breeding ground for these stupid ideas from career politicians. Who, by the way, have body guards.
    Maybe the state of IL should stop cutting funds to city so they can hire more police. Or maybe the state should stop giving voting to give themselves raises, or their workers. Maybe they should bring back the jobs so people don’t have to return to a life of crime. Maybe they should vote to tax all violent video games, movies, and tv show which glamorize killing.

    This is so whacked. As a student of history, I know the evils that can be perpetrated on the unarmed masses.

  35. Outa here says:

    It’s about time to rid the nation of these people.

  36. TnAndy says:

    ACTUALLY, I have far less problem with this than many of the tax schemes they come up with.

    On the Federal level, for example, excise taxes ARE Constitutional, being a form of a INDIRECT tax, whereas the current income tax is neither a direct nor an indirect tax, the only two forms of tax permitted to Congress.

    And States put sales taxes on all kinds of things, at different rates right now.

    Say Illinois set a 100% tax on ammo…..what would happen ? Pretty simple…..folks would simply go to Ohio, or Indiana, or Michigan, and Illinois would collect about zero, w/o slowing up ammo to amount to anything.

    That’s EXACTLY what limits States now….in Tennessee, with State and local, we have right at 10% sales tax on EVERYTHING……so folks drive to adjoining States to make big purchases, or even little ones if they are close to the state line, or use the internet, or whatever….there is a practical limit to the amount govt can tax before people simply do an end run around it.

    Personally, I can’t get TOO wound up about a 2% tax on ammo when they tax food at 4-6%….of the two, I tend to eat more than I shoot.

    • smokey says:

      You already pay a sales tax on your ammo, this would be added to the total. You didn’t shoot anybody in a drive-by, why should you pay for it? Once in place, the tax will go up, it’s politically motivated.

    • mirbach says:

      Sure, folks could do mail order too and avoid the state tax, but the point is that a special tax on ammo is an infringement on the Right to Bear Arms. The point is that a state has stated an intent to place a restriction on the Second Amendment in the form of a tax. The point is a state has an obligation to pass no laws that are repugnant to the Constitution.

      arms n 1: weapons considered collectively [syn: weaponry, implements of war, weapons system, munition, ammunition]

      armsplural of arms (Noun)
      Weapons and ammunition; armaments: “they were subjugated by force of arms”.

      When the framers wrote the 2nd Amendment they damn well meant arms to be what ever offensive and defensive device available: swords, sabers, rapiers, daggers, pickets, lances, maces, shields, armor, helmets, cannons, powder, lead, muskets, rifles, pistols, rockets, missiles, catapults….

    • Highspeedloafer says:

      Sleep on Brother!

  37. CJMartel says:

    One way or another the government will attempt to completely revoke all of our rights. They will get away with taxing ammo, after all Americans are tolerating the groping by the TSA, they are tolerating our government bankrupting our nation, they are tolerating the most useless pack of moral repobates even seen in one place, washingtoon dc. It is beginning to look like the average American is too hooked on the idiot box to have a clue about what is happening in the real world. Here’s a clue, 1. not all cops are incredibly brilliant and handsome.
    2. not all female cops have perfect bodies and wit to match.
    3. NO police dept. solves a crime in 42.5 mins.
    4. turn the damn thing off and talk to your neighbors, while you still have neighbors.

  38. Slim says:

    I’ll bet she’s a confused Dimacrack. Probably for gay marriage, gun control, no texting while having sex and population control via Viagra. How do they keep populating?

  39. Whats next! says:

    There is more crime in our state of Illinois,in the leadership of this state to worry about, and be concerned about, then trying to put a surtax on ammunition.We are the highest state for govenors being sent to prison for corruption in the USA. We are still waiting foir the last one to get there! Of course he has to decided which one he wants to go to.
    Back to the surtax, if you are really an (American), the answer is no way. Vote these people out of office, let them go and live in a country where you don”t have any rights, and they will want to come back to the USA as quick as they can!

  40. Mr. Blutarsky says:

    It figures that this is happening in Illinois. What the heck is going on in that state?

    They seem to breed nothing but crooked, communist, America hating and anti-Constitutional politicians. Mobsters.

  41. a unarmed citizen is a victim

  42. 2014 to 2015 HYPERINFLATION says:

    Better stock up….John Williams, economist is predicting hyperinflation around 2014.
    I think it will be 2015 to 2016. It will take far more money in the market to affect things as the currency is global. Yet many countries are ditching the dollar. Thanks Obummer for the credit down grade and the failure of the world reserve currency.

    Watch for panic buying on food. Govt. and media to have news on folks getting busted for food hoarding laws. Better have a plan to spread out your preps.

    It’s all going down. Keep stocking metals for your final days. You’ll need something to cash in.

    Bush and Obummer are responsible for the coming collapse of the United States.

    China buying into some NWO shit in Iowa. Iowa the first NWO Chinese state.

    I think we should convert all our corn to fuel and fuck the rest of the world.

    Think about it…if the dollar collapses…we’ll have to trade them ships of grain.
    They cannot eat oil.
    Also, I’d chemtrail their local crops to get the mideast dependent on our grain.
    We could always put birth control chem in the grain to stop all 3rd world births. ha

    I do feel a human culling is being planned. Here’s how it works…
    1. Get all farmers to grow MGO Monsanto shit crops. Mono Crop.
    2. Strong pesticide that is wacking the bees.
    3. Chemtrails chainging weather…droughts and floods.
    4. Chemtrails will spray a UG99 type crop fungus.
    5. NWO boys, who have stocked their bunkers will go.. “Oops” and millions will starve.

    I’m building chemtrail proof heated cold frames for growing food. Invest in these.
    They could save your life. Grow your own.

    Final thought… empty the prisons, train them and drop them in the mid east. If they can take it over…they can have it and we’ll buy oil from them.

    It’s survival of the fittest from here on out. Screw being politically correct.

    • Kevin2 says:


      We don’t export that much food anymore. Over time the US has thrown away many of it’s aces while helping the hands of other nations in the grand scheme of globalization.

      Pretty sad.

    • JRS says:

      2014….you’re scaring the hell out of me…….time for another Jack…….

    • yental says:

      2014 is a “you still have plenty of time” billboard. We are not going to make it through 2012 before this rigged house of cards comes tumbling down.

      The Eurozone crisis, the dollar collapse on the heels of the Eurozone, the coming war with Iran, the continued manipulation of the “stuck-it-up-your-ass market…2014 would be a gift.

      Before 2012 is gone, this “pinata” will get smacked wide open. And it won’t be candy falling to the ground. If you are still thinking in terms of “years” rather than “months”…you are about to be caught on the toilet without any “paper” to clean up the mess.

    • Gunsmith says:

      ~To All~

      I agree w/ the many posters here venting their frustrations w/ goobermint, I too, am tired of worrying about what TPTB & their lapdog agencies are gonna do to me/mine/us & our GOD given rights!!!


      I want “them” to start worrying about “us”!!!

      I want “them” to fear “us”!!!

      I want “them” to SLEEP WITH ONE EYE OPEN at night, worrying about the unintended consequences of their corrupt policies/laws & voting records!!!

      I want “them” to understand that they are NOT exempt from the penalty of TREASON, as defined in our Constitution!!! Because they are NOT the seat of power…according to the Constitution…the POWER is in our hands!


      …today, something fell into my wallet that caused me to think! After work I stopped by my local gun-shop to pick up some .308 175gr match projectiles(recommended by one of the sharp ones here) & some Varget powder….
      Anyhow I paid w/ a C-note…& as I received my change…I noticed a twenty with ink-pen writing on the back side…it read;…

      Across the top margin.) …”used this bill for AMMO”…

      Across the bottom.) …”I’m listening to Jefferson now”…

      On the way home, I kept thinking of the author’s reasoning & it occurred to me that whoever scribbled those words was attempting to…

      1.) Awaken others.

      2.) Send a message “up the ladder”.


      I’ve decided to “self-enlist” in that anonymous author’s one man operation. GOD bless him……

      I’m going to snail-mail a color photo-copy of that $20 bill to both my senators & inform them that….now, there’s two of us watching their every move & that they’d better vote…relative to the Constitution from now on!

      Imagine if this righteous psyops went viral & adhered to “DK’s” oft repeated advice of +90 million getting involved & reciprocating/duplicating the process….


      ***Sarcasm mode (‘on’)***

      …if they ignore us…at least we can claim we solved the USPS budget shortfall…

      ***sarcasm mode (‘off’)***

      • yental says:

        Using “fiat gooberment notes” as the “common mans/womans” public message exchange and a readily available “currency-to-knowledge” medium for widespread information exchange.

        This has unimaginable potential Gunsmith. The day could very well soon emerge when “fiat messages” become the new “water cooler” discussions of the day. BRILLIANT.

        Can you imagine “regular folks” hoping to recieve “paper” with a message on it in “their” change. Everyone, get your “marksalots” out of storage and make this “federal reserve toilet paper” the new internet and primary means of information exchange. THIS ONE IS A GOLD PLATED KEEPER….PASS IT ON…LITERALLY.

        • I agree.

          Gunsmith, I’m gonna do it.

          I think I’ll make a stamp:


        • Gunsmith says:


          Damn if you wouldn’t make a good resistance fighter/leader/tactician, sir!
          You took it & ran w/ it much farther than I.
          I assume, you’re envisioning a broad spectrum message to TPTB that:…

          #1.) We know their debt based ‘paper’ is FIAT crap.

          #2.) We intend to awaken everyone else.

          #3.) We ain’t takin’ their shit anymore. Its ‘GAME ON NOW’…

          #4.) …–fill in the blank–…etc…etc.


          Mega thumbs up to you, Yental! We’re both probably due for some mega vetoes now…but thanks for pushing the envelope…I (honestly) really missed the potential!

          Again…KUDOS & much thanks here!!!

        • Gunsmith says:

          ~Net Ranger~

          Actually, I like your message better! Closer to the point!

          I was thinking of purchasing one of those ‘stamp pad’ multimedia kits from Staples & seeing what I could come up with…

          Thanks for the idea!

        • Mama Bear says:

          Or just the short, sweet and elegant “DON’T TREAD ON ME.” Kinda says it all. Do they make stamps with the snakes?

      • DieselDan says:

        Gun be very carfull while a very good idea, you may get locked up for defacing currency, counterfeiting and threats and the sad part is I’m very serious. Be safe bud!

        • Gunsmith says:


          Thanks much for the heads up, sir!

          But I cannot help but consider the alternative consequences of doing nothing, because…..

          1.) I/we didn’t start/initiate this shit!

          2.) I/we have yet to endeavor to limit ‘their’ freedoms or curtail ‘their’ rights!

          3.) I/we haven’t extorted a huge percentage of their paychecks for manifold appropriations, so as to benefit ourselves/us!

          4.) I/we do not demand their children/progeny share in the tribulations they’re expecting ours to endure!

          5.) I/we do not ‘RIG ELECTIONS’ to insure that the voting process becomes a mere preordained ritual w/ a predetermined outcome!

          6.) —fill in the blank to near infinity etc…etc!



          …they have declared WAR on us & our progeny’s future. Their spectrum of attack is extremely broad & multi-dimensional.

          Its economical, cultural, physical, ideological, political, social/racial and especially PSYCHOLOGICAL……and they reserve the right to utilize deadly force, per their whims in any given situation, sans the accountability!

          …..last time I checked, that was a pretty good definition of…”A-symmetrical warfare”…!!!!

          Well you know, there’s quite a few folks left in this country, who’re capable of playing the A-symmetrical game also….!!!

          ….problem is……..we don’t have much time left & we gotta start somewhere…& the ballot box has been hacked!
          Its broken, Dan!

          Which begs the question…why should I & others participate in their game, under their rules?????


          Best of luck to you & yours…& GOD bless!!!!!!!!!!!

        • mirbach says:

          The defacement statute is about defacing in an attempt to alter the value as in counterfeiting. Printing a message, drawing a picture or putting a mustache on a dead president’s face on a FRN will NOT get you in trouble as long as the First Amendment stands intact.

          18 U.S.C. § 333 : US Code – Section 333: Mutilation of national bank obligations

          Whoever mutilates, cuts, defaces, disfigures, or perforates, or unites or cements together, or does any other thing to any bank bill, draft, note, or other evidence of debt issued by any national banking association, or Federal Reserve bank, or the Federal
          Reserve System, with intent to render such bank bill, draft, note, or other evidence of debt unfit to be reissued, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than six months, or both.

          Also pay attention that this statute does not say anything about “currency” as it refers to “evidence of debt” and if that does tell you we’re are getting scammed somebody needs to slap you.

        • Gunsmith says:


          Thank you, sir! I needed that info/data!

          I owe you one! Thumbs up!

        • yental says:

          That will be all but impossible to prove. Now I’m not talking about paying cash with every single piece of paper “messaged”. Spread them out. Trying to “prove” a particular person is responsible for “defacing” counterfeit reserve notes would certainly tie-up alot of “manpower”…for nothing.

          The idea is “golden” and everyone here should start…yesterday. The message is less relevant than the potential ultimate “defacing” of the “systems” mandated currency…for all debts…public and private.

          I earned it, I will write whatever the hell I want to on it. Thousands of fingerprints equals: lost cause in terms of identifying the “patriots” involved.

        • yental says:

          If you are that “worried”, write or stamp your message on the back of the currency. Fiat notes are stored in the register “face up” and paid back out in the same fashion. But the potential message is still riding “piggyback” and WILL BE SEEN. Come on “bumpersticker” authors…get busy.

  43. Cinderella Man says:

    Since when did our 2nd admendment right become a sin tax? Im one of those 2nd class citizens that smokes and Im getting damn tired of paying higher taxes to support children’s health insurance that hardly anyone in the state of Montana uses. I heard that in the new ammo the firing pins disolve in 3 years. Another clever and sneaky way to disarm the populace. The biggest threat to a tyrannical and despotic regime is a well armed and educated people!

    • Fenris says:

      God bless your state, but how on earth do you figure that primers would make firing pins desolve? The pins tend to be made of done of the hardest ans most durable steel available…

  44. Mike 2 says:

    VRF has it right. The government is being run by terrorists. The military can use the new law Congress passed to round up all politicians and detain them indefinitely.

  45. Old Fuzzy says:

    There is already a hidden tax on ammo and all other fishing and camping products. That tax supposedly pays for conservation, etc. Bill Clinton raided this money for his own political goals when he was Prez. Sometimes politicians propose bills that they know won’t pass, in order to raise money just before an election.

  46. Old Fuzzy says:

    Both politicians and diapers need to be changed often and for the same reason!

  47. VRF says:

    The right of self defense is founded in the law of nature, and is not , nor can be superseded by any law of society.
    in 1876 the supreme court recognised that the right to arms is an individual right, stating that it is not a right granted by the constitution and is not dependant upon that instrument for its existance.

    if they take away bullets , then other means of protection will come to the front..its just the way it is, and they are pissed as hell that they cant change that..its just like the bully at the sand box..one of these days they will fuck with the wrong kid and get their face buried in the sand

  48. ArmedPatriot says:

    If they want our guns make it law that cops cannot carry while off duty. They’ll make them change their tune real fast. You’ll hear “But then my family will at danger.”
    Welcome to the rest of the flock buddy. Even the NYPD carry concealed after duty hours. The rest of the peeps don’t get that option.

  49. Tina says:

    I have a “stupid” question. Can you all tell me if ammo expires? I didn’t think so but the other day I overheard someone saying that ammo companies are (or going to start) making ammo with powder that has a limited shelf life so after so many years it will not fire…..has anyone heard of this and is this a reality?

    • blackriflewarrior says:

      Tina. As far as I’m aware, no such ammo exists YET. Years ago, when I was reloading, there was a rumor about making primers have a limited life but it turned out to be false. I can’t remember where I read about it but I read that they just don’t have the technology yet. I wouldn’t be suprised if the booger-eaters are working on it though.

    • Kevin2 says:


      I heard that too. It’s the primers they planned on messing with so I heard. The excuse is “green/environmental” ; always an excuse.

      Ammo as it is currently will outlast you or I. I shoot WWII vintage ammo and if stored reasonably well (moderate temp and dry) a 100 years is not out of the question.

    • VRF says:

      Cuurently no, ammo does not “expire”
      I have re-loads that are well over 32 years old and still hit just like they did when I made them.

      Im wondering what could be done to “life” powder or primers..and how bright an idea would this be for our troops , and LEO’s and 3 letter agencies..

      and what or how would the “out of life” ammo be handled?

      • VRF says:

        because “out of life ammo” is only the powder, or the primer depending on what element they decide to put a “clock” on..the bullet is still good, the case is still good.

        so here is a good story, if it were to come true..cop is holding down a suspect , that has hostages, and is shooting back at the two first reponder LEO’s..he is un-aware that his department hasnt disposed of the border line ammo.. he pokes his head out from around his cruiser because he sees a perfect shot to stop the perp..and “CLICK!”….

        Bang …cop shot by perp with new ammo

    • JustMe says:

      In the 1990’s, “Tagants” were developed, ostensibly to trace powder residue. The powder would contain the “Tagant”, upon firing, the residue would burn into the fired bullet.

      Tagants would be produced in tracable lots, which could then be traced to ammo lots, which could then supposedly be traced to suppliers, and end users.

      Tagants also degraded the ppropellant’s viability over time, ultimately rendering it useless. It came very close to being put into American ammo, by law.

      On a side note, the tax in the article is nothing new. In the early 90’s, HCI develpoed a comprhensive plan to disarm Americans, and this scheme was part of it. Eventually anything firearms related would be taxed out of reach of the average citizen.

      Maybe they should tax this guy…


    • smokey says:

      Store ammo properly it will last for decades. The ‘shelf life’ rumors are just that, rumors, and without foundation.

  50. motormatt48 says:

    They have been trying to disarm “White Law Biding American Citizens” for a long time…In the 90`s Clinton, Biden, Reno and Holder tried…They should worry about the Black and Latino crime problem in America instead…God Bless America…

  51. Rich99 says:

    What would Jesus Do?…………. Reload

  52. nojustice says:

    On the news today the U.S. is thinking of arming the Syrian Rebels to help their cause. Never mind that 30% could be enemies of the U.S. I wonder if they will be forced to pay the ammo tax.

  53. CHUCK ADKINS says:


    • Legion911 says:

      one more option.. do whatever the f-k you want and permissions be damned.

      This is not being a scofflaw. This is an important act of civil disobedience which says I will not submit to the every growing catalog of restrictions, fees and regulations imposed upon me by a cancerous bureaucratic police state. I am a sovereign man. Don’t tread on me.

      I think more LEOs enforcing this BS needs to have their vehicles shot at.

      • Highspeedloafer says:

        How many police cars have you shot at recently?

      • JRS says:

        Legion….I’d like to practice civil disobedience. But while I may or may not have hunted or fished without a “license” in the past, it is now no longer worth it to me . It has become a felony here to poach….it used to be a misdemeanor violation.The Game Commission chips deer and releases them. They use these to entrap poachers.My neighbor poached a deer on his land with no one around. When they came to his house they told him the deer was tracked by RFID chip. They will take your guns, vehicle and give you a year in the pokey. Plus, with a felony, you will never “legally” own a gun again

        • JRS, I don’t really think they can “track a deer with an RFID chip.” I think it was probably more like loose lips sink ships and somebody ratted him out and the RFID blather was a cover story with disinformation. They probably chip deer and use the chip reader at the check station.

          If that story really happened as you presented it then the enemy has identified itself. The occupying force has been located. Supposing that is true, how far out of line are Legion911’s ideas?

        • Legion911 says:

          “When they came to his house they told him the deer was tracked by RFID chip”

          Wow. thanks for the warning. Never thought of that. That’s why sites like this are so valuable. We can share important info. I guess I am going to look into a device which can detect the location of the RFID chip on the deer & remove it. (and tape it to the bumper of a LEO vehicle).

          I will post what I find.

        • Cameraman says:

          Its the Kings Animals they are talking about Right?

  54. Nam Marine says:

    All these Anti-Americans should be arrested for treason!

    • Legion03431 says:

      “All these Anti-Americans should be arrested for treason!”

      Its not clear to me which group of people you refer to when you say “anti-americans”

      Is that group the folks who want the constitution to be honored and obeyed as evidenced by the plain language of the document; or is that the group that includes the control freak politicians and their enforcers who claim a monopoly of violence, who routinely ignore the constitution and corral us into ever smaller live stock tax cattle holding pens?

      If you mean the latter group I agree with you. If you mean the former group, its not clear to me why you think they are the bad guys. Seems to be a case of blaming the victims.

      Everything the Nazis did was legal under German law. Legal don’t make it right or morally defensible.

      As an ex-marine you know your highest sworn duty it to uphold the constitution. Are you familiar with Oath Keepers? An unconstitutional law (or order) is not a legal order and you have a civil (and legal duty as a LEO or active duty serviceman) to not obey it.

  55. Nam Marine says:

    Don’t buy Gold………Buy ammunition!

  56. Dan says:

    Seems like our new Chicago Mayor, Rahm is now working on taking over how the STATE raises money. It is unbelievable how every single thing one uses,(tollroads,trains,parking etc.) has been taxed to high heaven, and the state inome tax was raised 67% on a 4 year temporary basis to shore up the bills that are owed by the democratically controlled state. All they do is collect these extra taxes and then missappropriate them. Our state is headed for bankruptcy. Rahms latest push is to have the state legislature pass a new law requiring a registration card that every firearms owner would need to purhase for EACH gun they own. I believe it would be for around $67 per gun if they pass this. He just got passed another law that allows him to intercept your state income tax refund if you happen to owe on a traffic ticket or parking ticket. And the just announced deficit reducing state budget that Governor Quinn is presenting today somehow is $50 million more than last years budget, with supposedly 9% cuts in some government programs, but also with corporate deductions taken away which will further contribute to corporations leaving the state. They need to eradicate the stench from all of the ongoing criminal activities that few want to attempt to clean up in this state, listed as one of the top 2 most corrupt states. Just disgusted with all government in this state as well as all of the attempts to infringe on our rights.

    • Ranodm Tangent 1957 says:

      Tell Rahm to come to my house to collect the fee…..
      I’ll make sure he gets paid….
      I believe in defending this Nation from all threats , both foreign & domestic. I know it is not easy, but IMHO you should get the hell out of IL ASAP ! It is time to practice Triage….& in battle you have to be able to cut the ones you can’t save loose. IL, CA , NY, DC, …maybe more. They are dying from many years of liberal’s social engineering ….& out of control spending. It is too late for them, Get out now…before SHTF & all the folks stop getting all the free gubberment shit. They are going to be burnt to the ground. Take your losses….get out ….Come on down to Texas or another state where freedom & property rights still mean something. I pray for all the sheeple in these states….as when it happens…..they will die a terrible death. I just attended the first meeting of a new prepper group this past Saturday. Ther were a great group of individuals in attendance….everyone with different skills. I think that I can learn a lot from each of these folks. I’m looking forward to the next meeting ! Stay Safe Y’all.

    • Don says:

      watch out for that Lisa Madigan,too. How’s her dad? Mr. Corrupt?

  57. Mr. Blutarsky says:

    Is it too late for me to say that I hate what this country has turned in to?

    Moochers. Pansies. Government & political bullies & crooks. Communists. Marxists. Entitled losers. Selfish brats.

    Plus a few patriots. A very few.

  58. VRF says:

    An armed..Strong armed robery just went down at a bar near my office..yesterday evening

    see the thugs know that no one would be armed at the bar, because of the stupid government rules about no cary laws in such places…it just opens the door to crime, they know there will be little to no resistance..easy pickens ala our dumb ass beurocrats

    • Fed Up says:

      Here in Wisconsin we are allowed to carry in a bar, but not allowed to be drinking any alcohol if we do. I would guess plenty of folks are carrying.

      Interestingly though, a few weeks ago someone was concealed carrying inside Aldi’s food store in Milwaukee(which had a sign that said no weapon carrying in their store) and shot an assailant during an attempted armed robbery. I’m guessing the would-be robber assumed it would be easy pickins too. The District Attorney’s office said they wouldn’t be charged with anything because there was a threat of death to all present. I wonder if Aldi’s food stores will change their no carry policy? This isn’t the kind of thing the anti-gun jerks want broadcast, so it didn’t get a lot of attention.

      I think this example is no different than the would be rapist/mugger/home invasion perpetrator who finds out that the person they tried to violate was skilled with a gun and not afraid to use it. We rarely hear about these things but they happen quite a bit. I wish more folks would blow trumpets when these events take place, it would help us gun rights folks get it out there that guns are simply tools and useful tools at that!

      • TnAndy says:

        Some places here ( Bank of TN, for one )have “no weapons” signs on their doors….usually the pic of a handgun with the red circle and slash…..but they don’t mean anything under State law…it’s merely an attempt to satisfy their liberal patrons, I’m convinced.

        State law requires specific language and sign requirements to make it illegal to carry in a place…..and a business like the bank would have enough staff attorneys to point that out to them, so I’m convinced they “really don’t mean it”….it’s just a “feel good” sign.

        Of course, like Aldi’s, they may find out bank robbers haven’t taken the time to actually read the law, and think they’re in a gun free zone….ahahahahahaaa

        • eeder says:

          i think if i were you, i would consider taking it seriously. banks arent in the habit of joking about anything. they are very serious. and if they dont have metal detectors yet , they likely will soon. if you walk into a bank with a gun, i dont care where it is, you are an idiot. im not saying its not your right or that you should or shouldnt be able to, however you will likely find yourself in handcuffs if you continue to ignore their sign. just food for thought.

        • JRS says:

          Correct me if I’m wrong, but I believe you cannot carry in a bank ANYWHERE. Unless, of course, you are robbing the bank

        • eeder says:

          maybe try to limit your visits to banks and like institutions… i do… and i always have my special key in my hand and a very keen eye and sense of whats going on while i am forced to be there. than , in to my vehicle , doors locked and than get the hell out of there. and i usually only visit banks in either the town of about 1500 people near me or the bigger “city” of about 25000 about 45 minutes from me. despite the fact it is a rural , white area, i never take anything for granted, especially in banks and government intstitutions… bad things can unfold more quickly than i care to think about sometimes.

        • eeder says:

          this has always been my assumption too and i really dont care to test it.

        • TnAndy says:


          And they’ll find themselves slapped with a huge lawsuit if they try. I carry anywhere unless prohibited BY LAW. You might ought to study the law instead of making it up.

        • TnAndy says:


          You’re wrong, simple as that.

          In fact, when opening an account at another local bank, I was sitting with the branch manager ( a lady ), and I used my carry permit as the photo ID they require to open an account now days ( My DL license doesn’t have my photo on it, TN law after you’re 60)

          She says “I see you’re a permit holder….me too….what are you carrying ?” I opened my coat to show my Glock, she opened her purse to show me her Smith….we had a nice discussion on firearms and how everybody ought to carry all the time.
          My kinda banker.

          You people should get out more……

        • eeder says:

          ok , well go ahead than and do it. i really dont care. i am just stating that i wouldnt do it and have never heard of it , however if you and your bank manager carry on in this way.. do it! just remember when they cuff you and stuff you, if they dont shoot you first… that they warned you. honestly.. i dont even care if its legal… i think it is stupid to even tempt the zionists in this way. i guess im wrong. i guss jrs is wrong. i certainly wont be carrying a gun into any banks anywhere, and definitely wont be flashing it inside the bank.

        • RICH99 says:

          My bank doesn’t serve alcohol and isn’t a Fed building. I carry in every quick store and bank. I usually shake hands with the police officer and thank him for what they do while looking at him in the eyes. He knows I mean it while he’s looking at my head lights on bright.

          I wish I had a taser. Diesel 3.99.9 in my FEMA quadrant.

          Europe is about to thaw out Mac. Pelosi is an id…” “id…” “ids…” idiot.

          When you have to shoot, shoot, don’t talk.

        • I nearly always *OPEN* carry in the bank. I get a few looks once in a while, but, hey! I carry out in excess of $1000 sometimes. If they had a no weapons sham of a sign, I’d complain and then violate it without guilt. In my state there are only a few places you can’t carry under law. I often carry in those places too. “Under common law, I do not consent and I waive the benefits.” will be used in those places. If they lock me up, they’ll end up paying big.

        • mike says:

          Most everyone I know carry a small revolver in the summer months. Everyone has snake shot. I know all you southerners are going to make fun of me about this but snakes scare the heck out of me. My biggest fear is to get thrown from a colt and land face to face with one. But every year I kill a couple.

          I don’t know anyone that will carry in a local business. We all know local owners and no use scaring the hell out of some out of towners. You normally see alot of empty holsters that is all.

          If you were to ask if someone has a permit to carry they would simply laugh at you.

        • eeder says:

          ok guys,
          i am envious!however it remains… i certianly wont be carrying any guns into any banks around here! and i really dont reccomend anyone consider doing it here if you visit! I think its ok, i have no problem with it, dont get me wrong. I was under the impression it was more or less a given , a written rule, an unwritten rule that one would not take a gun into any bank anywhere. I guess i am wrong.I would not take it for granted though and think there is probaly more to that sign than just a little joke. at first it will not be enforced, than it will, than they will arrest you , if not shoot you if you keep disobeying. I think its terrible! but i think its what they are trying to do. beware.

      • Shirley says:

        Neal Boortz has a DRT piece on the radio.

  59. citizen ron says:





    • Legion911 says:

      I have just joined the ranks. People who Ghost are called domestic expatriates. The system is around us but we are not participating in it.

      This is the only real power a citizen who wishes to remain non violent has. The power to say NO.

      No, I will not give you my money so that you can hire more goons w badges & guns to constrain me further, telling me what what permissions I must have, what fees I must pay, what I can and can’t grow, smoke, drink, shoot, burn and build.

      No more money for your endless wars of resource acquisition so that suburbanites can drive to the mall in their Escalades for shopping sprees buying ever higher piles of cheap useless crap.

      Drop out. Don’t feed the beast.

    • durango kidd says:

      “Disengage” is the propaganda of the NWO. That is exactly what they want US to do. Roll over and play dead. It gives them the lattitude to do what they want.

      The Globalists FEAR an engaged, organized, vocal, and committed citizenry.

      Disengagement is for lemmings and cowards Ron, which one are you?

      • DK, its not that kind of disengage. Its a don’t pay the tax, don’t feed the beast disengage. Nobody is rolling over and playing dead.

        But, Legion, expatriate? No, you don’t understand. When you are a US Citizen, you are then, actually, the expatriate. When you “disengage” as you mention, you become, once again, an American. The fake government is not OUR government. It says it is but, sometimes, once in a while, it tells a lie. OK, all the time it lies and that is another one. Since The Act of 1871, our government is not our government. Its a corp body with a government veneer. They don’t want you to know but its the truth. Go study The Act of 1871 and what it did to the DC government and how it spread to the states in the next few years.

        And, BTW, DK, just try to tell anyone that tells a cop that he’s disengaging that its “cowardice”. Disengaging means *NOT* paying the ticket because the cop has to either “arrest you” with “probable cause” or answer in the affirmative that you are “free to go”. There is not in between. And telling a cop that is tantamount to treason to that cop. He’s a programmed killer and government sponsored thief with a gun. Telling him what he doesn’t want to hear is DANGEROUS even for minor violations.

        Lemmings and cowards? Not really. Not this kind of disengagement.

        • durango kidd says:

          NR: The reason the Act of 1871 is in force and effect, and for all practical purposes the law of the land, whether WE agree with it or not; is because Americans have not been awake and aware and actively ENGAGED with the governance of their own country.

          WE have left the management of America to the lawyers, politicians, and dual citizens believing that these people would do what is right, just, and fair as they promised they would.

          It was a bad choice. They lied.

          The NWO Globalists want all of US to continue letting them run the country, so that they can continue to run it for their benefit and the benefit of the Uber Rich.

          Their goal is Corporate Fascism for them, and socialism for the poor; and all of it paid for by the middle class. That is what they are doing.

          Patriots cannot allow that to continue.

          Patriots must ENGAGE their managers, remove them from office, fill those management positions with Patriots and repeal all unconstitutional laws, like the Act of 1871.

          NR, you can rail against the Act of 1871 all you like. You can drop out and not pay your parking tickets and library fines if you want to, but that will not remove the Act of 1871 from the books. And it will not kill the beast.

          Only political ACTION can make that change.

          90 million gun owners in America have the power to change the direction of America and repeal the Act of 1871; restoring America to it constitutional foundations. They must organize, communicate, volunteer, donate and vote.

          Dropping out won’t cut it. ENGAGE

      • DomesticTerrorist says:

        I think you might have it wrong there Durango. Legion means not to pay the goons the 10’s of 1000’s of dollars the average sheeple does, he means to not pay them at all. Really drop out.

        I think Legion, along with the rest of us who are sane, does not look forward to violence. Indeed, we’re hoping the Beast will collapse with a minimum of violence, at least in *our* sector.

        What the globalists fear is a citizenry that doesn’t need ’em and doesn’t pay ’em. Oh, and who can fight back too.

        • durango kidd says:

          DT: Your choice will get US nowhere and will not change anything. You will never get the majority of Americans to drop out of the system. It wouldn’t matter if you did and could get half of America to follow suit. That is why We are where We are at.

          The Globalists would still would control the system and do as they please. That is what is happening now.

          Dropping out is EXACTLY what the “goons” want. They want US to continue letting them run the country to their benefit. That is the PROPAGANDA of the Globalists.

          They want us to fear OUR government, when they secretly fear US. To wit: the Patriot Act and the NDAA. This legislation is direct evidence of their fear of an enlightened and aroused American Public.

          They want US to believe that OUR vote doesn’t matter. They want US to think that WE do not have the power to change America; to restore America.

          They want US to drop out, give up, dis-engage. They want US to busy ourselves with American Idol, X-box’s, videos, and Internet porn.

          And the one thing they do not want is for US to change the system with new political options that challenge their power structure.

          If any of you will not ENGAGE your enemy politically while it is still possible to do so, you are either a lemming or a coward.

          If you are neither, then join America First, or the Patriot party, or The Constitution Party. Lend them your name. Lend them your voice. Lend them your vote. Give them a buck. Two, if your liberties mean anything to you.

          ENGAGE your managers or be enslaved by them.

        • Legion911 says:

          DomesticTerrorist says “I think Legion, along with the rest of us who are sane, does not look forward to violence. Indeed, we’re hoping the Beast will collapse with a minimum of violence”

          I am not a psychopath. I am not a violent man. I do not seek to subjugate my fellow men. But from time to time a man finds himself at turning points in history. Times when he wish he was elsewhere in time and place, but he is not.

          Some Armenian men were present when the Turks wiped out 1.5 million Turkish Armenians. Some Cambodian men where present when the Khmer Rouge killed 1.7 million of their fellow Cambodians. Untold millions of Irish died during the potato famine because their British overlords exported their other food for sale. The list of atrocities and abuses suffered by citizens at the hands of government forced upon them is sadly long.

          Men sometimes find themselves at these moments in history. Bad luck. Your dealt a shitty hand. But that’s the hand you have to play. My question to you is-What do you do? Do you do the right & honorable thing and resist, by whatever means are necessary, the police state treating you like tax cattle held in an ever smaller civil liberties pen? Or do you remain passive– passive like 6 million jews in Nazi Germany and allow the bad shit to wash over you and sweep you and your loved ones away. Or do you resist and possibly prevail against long odds like what the Vietnamese did against the massive US Army.

          This man says: I’d rather die on my feet than live on my knees. When the tipping point happens I, as well as my sons, will be there.

      • Kevin says:

        I agree! Make em more afraid of us then we are of them!

        • durango kidd says:

          Kevin the best way to make them fear US is to engage them politically. That is what they fear. It is the political process that has given them legitimacy when they are illegitimate.

          They do not fear guns.

          They control the most powerful military machine ever assembled. Why would they fear guns? What they fear are Patriots controlling the government that controls the military that keeps them in power.


          Organize, communicate, volunteer, donate, and vote for a new political structure like America First; the Patriot Party; or the Constitution Party.

          The PTB are political animals. They fear loss of political power. Their loss of political power can only come through new political structures that they cannot control.

          To defeat them, WE must change the game.

        • Kevin2 says:

          durango kidd

          A wise man told me that the fight was at the soap box and ballot box because if you have to go to the ammo box you have already lost.

          i thought the statement was pretty good.

  60. Legion911 says:

    “The power to tax is the power to destroy” Looks alot like “infringing” to me. But then again, the constitution means whatever 5 supreme court justices say it means.

    Plain language in the constitution doesn’t bind the justices to follow the plain language of the document. They invent whatever the heck they want to achieve whatever the heck they want. And what they want (or at least allow) is the slow and incessant nibbling away of our rights under the notion of balancing the government’s interest in … (fill in the blank here), with the inconvenience to the people. This test is totally invented and when applied ALWAYS goes against the people.

    I actually had the opportunity to ask the chief justice of the New York State Court of Appeals (the supreme court for NYS) at a law seminar how she could justify interpreting the absolute language of the 2nd amendment prohibiting ANY restrictions of gun ownership “shall not be infringed” to mean that the court could allow “reasonable restrictions”. She said ” I don’t think that’s what the people want”. Incredible.

    The constitution is just a piece of paper. If we let it be ignored, it will be ignored. And most of us are sheep.

    Mao Tze Tung said it best “political power comes from the barrel of a gun”. If they got the guns & we don’t, citizens are slowly turned into subjects.

    //My name is Legion for we are many. We do not forget. We do not forgive. Expect us//

    • Fed Up says:

      @Legion911 You hit the nail on the head friend. Plain language in the constitution means whatever the shmucks on the bench say they THINK it means when they are twisting things to meet their ends.

      The constitution is supposed to LIMIT the government, not us. When you have a bunch of folks deciding what’s best for the government.. er.. “what the people want” we end up with the government tramping along a path it was never intended to. The sheep just bleat in their pens, texting and updating their facebook pages wondering if there is a terrorist hiding nearby.

      On occasion folks rise up and protest things they feel are unconsitutional (the Lautenberg Amendment for example) and the government poo-poos them and does what it planned to begin with.

  61. 4strokes says:

    Small tax, my fluffy buns! They said the same type of thing when they started down this road with gasoline, tobacco, and alcohol. It starts small then becomes 120% the value of the product!

  62. shill says:

    You want my Fire Arms? you want my Ammo?

    Come get them.

  63. Cinderella Man says:

    Fenris, My bad i meant dissolving primers, not the pins I didnt have my coffee this morning!!! Yeah a vet buddy of mine told me the ammo would be useless after 3 years and the ammo we buy today is set up like that. I guess we’ll see when it comes time to fend of the road warriors that come for our stuff in 2013! lol

    • TnAndy says:

      That would present a HUGE liability for primer manufacturers.

      What happens if the “timer” was off…..say a purchaser of some ammo that was only 2 years old pulls the trigger on a home invasion, and nothing happens ? Or a cop in a life/death situation ?

      No, “timed” primers will never happen if they run it by their legal department.

  64. This bumper sticker says it all.

    “If I Can’t Get Your Guns, I’ll Go For Your Ammo”


    • Patriot says:

      If he tries, his goons will get it alright. Just like American Soldiers get it in Afghanistan. Then as soon we able they can have some faster fed ammo to go along with their lead collection.

      Don’t take that as me being against American soldiers, just the government and global elites they are currently serving. Many of them know the score and many more are learning the truth. Any force that comes looking for American guns is nothing but an occupation force and can have all the ammo they can stand and more.

  65. irwin derstine says:

    unscrib. thank you i.d.

  66. asil says:

    Great conversation! I have a bee in my bonnet
    reguarding the 61 year old fellow in Farmington,
    NH who is facing 6 years for ‘reckless felony’,
    for holding his neghbors burgler at bay.
    Take it away Mac…

  67. Fred says:

    Stock up and be prepared, if and when they try to take our weapons, shit will hit the fan

  68. Cinderella Man says:

    Not unless the cops have different ammo than the citizens do. I honestly think they could care less if our ammo works or not. The goal is to disarm us and having expiring ammo is a helluva start.

  69. Clark Kent says:

    Illinois the only state thate has a prison with a GOVERNOR ROW!!!!!!!

  70. SWIFT says:

    People should move out of Illinois to a more conservative state. Leave the tax burden and left-wing politics to those who stay behind. They created it, let them enjoy the fruits of their labors. I predict all of these left-wing states will one day resemble Detroit. It has to happen because you cannot spend other people’s money if they no longer live there.

  71. jimbo says:

    The beauty of the second amendment is that it will not be needed until they try to take it. Thomas Jefferson

  72. eeder says:

    ive got one word. crossbow. these bastards will never be able to stop us even if they get rid of guns and ammo. they have the means to do it. however a crossbow , a fiarly good one and arrows are not impossible to produce. not by any means. these bastards will not learn until they are brought to their knees… the governments that is.

    • If you’re Daryl from “The Walking Dead”, then a cross bow is a great answer. But I believe that our fight will not be against slow walking flesh eating zombies. It will be against fast walking flesh eating zombies!

      • eeder says:

        truth in motion
        no question, and we must always fight against them , to prevent them from taking our arms. however if they do, i am saying a crossbow is an alternative. and as jrs has pointed out, they can be more lethal and more stealth than a gun. sometimes fast walking zombies can be outsmarted! even the flesh eating ones!i have no problem going back to the days of robin hood. these pussies will never defeat us easily!

  73. BlueH2O says:

    Mac, I had to clean out my cache and it seems I lost my sign in, here. This is just to re-establish it for posting purposes.

  74. JRS says:

    eeder….one word…good word.Some of the newer crossbows are just a deadly as a deer rifle and with sights and 190 lbs of pull are a hoot.Silent and lethal.

  75. Satori says:

    Epitaph,The Late Great United States


    “the wakeup is in full swing
    and that’s why the crackdown

  76. Clark Kent says:

    As for reloading,is there anything that a beginner should be aware of before purchasing the equipment and materials to go with it?

    • Paranoid says:

      Reload what? It makes a diff. First thing is watch what you reload. Much ammo these days especially: 30-06, 308, 223, 45 ;all the Mil cal can be bought for less than component prices, you can only ever reload if you have empty brass. you really cannot reload any rim fire. I have all the stuff and haven’t reloaded in years. I hunt with commercial good stuff but that takes only a few rounds per year I’ve got a 10,000 year supply of that,. I shoot the Russian, who knows crap, that’s cheap, If you watch the specials at Walmart you can but Shotgun ammo cheaper than you can reload your own case.

  77. Jeff says:

    Access to guns and ammo will never be a problem in this country. Despite whatever statistics you read, there is more than one firearm for every man, woman and child. And ammo to go along with it. When the SHTF, we will be supplied by our allies in the military. We have 70% of them on our side. This is not wishful thinking on my part, it is a statement of fact. Taxing ammo is a minor and temporary burden. Basic rule is a thousand rounds for every gun that you own and that should be enough in the interim. As long as you cover this equation, stock up on food, water, medical supplies and barterable items (alcohol, tobacco, etc). Gold and silver are good long term, but you cannot eat it and nobody will accept it for necessities until we get beyond SHTF. I’ll accept it because I am prepared.

    Know your friends and neighbors because you will NOT be able to resist alone. 20 of mine against one of you means I win.

    Read about Argentina and Bosnia and you will understand what I mean.

    Have faith in your fellow Patriot and God. I am a Patriot and God is on our side.

  78. Great comment! However, I’d add that having plenty of ammo and a good way to discharge that ammo is beside the point if you’re not very proficient at doing it. In addition to having 1000 rounds per gun, get enough ammo to practice, practice, practice. Firearm skill is a perishable skillset, and its better to have 200 rounds of ammo that will be accurately placed than to have a thousand rounds that you’re not sure of when it counts.

  79. wally says:

    they’ll never stop till they ban firearms…:(

  80. Mal Reynolds says:

    “The power to tax is the power to destroy.” – Chief Justice John Marshall, 1819

    If someone already posted it, sorry. Didn’t have time to read through them all tonight.

    The libtards will never stop trying to subvert the 2nd amendment. Stay fresh.


  81. Toomanyfakeconservatives says:

    Ammo prices have been exploding for years and my lend-lease leftover 1942 manufacture USGI .45ACP fires every time.

  82. TAXED ENOUGH ALREADY supporting member.

    Doesn’t really affect me too much. I’ll just load it and trade it for silver.

    The corp and subcorps are not bypassing the Constitution. They’re not the government. It is a lot like Wal-Mart saying “We’re going to charge $5 more per box of ammo because we’re socially conscious and want to donate the money to NGAC.” They can do that, its not unConstitutional because they are a private corporation. …like the US and state pseudo-governments.

    Its not unConstitutional because they’re not REALLY our government. They walk and talk and look like our government but they really aren’t. They are a corporate body with a shell that looks like government. But, don’t you see, the states and the fedco can’t BLATANTLY do this or the whole corporate thing would be exposed. So, they tread lightly around the edges wishing they could jump in with both feet but know if they do, we’ll tear them apart. Slowly, they collapse the idea of Constitutionality even though, in reality it has nothing to do with it.

    Its kind of a double conspiracy. The criminal organisations know the CONUS doesn’t apply, but, they re-conspire to make you think it does by arguing about it, thus, further concealing their position as an enemy occupying force.

  83. Brushman says:

    Expiring ammo,gun confiscation,ban on gun sales.?answer ,the “Butter Knife Brigade.” When lightening strikes the shit house and all hell breaks loose, people are going to come running to us wanting food and guns. We will have a big box of butter knives, we will hand them one, and tell them to go get a gun. And when they whine and bitch we will tell them that the butter knife is more than they deserve, as the whole thing would have never happened without their complicity through their ignorance.

  84. Anonymous says:

    Screw them im using my tax return to buy a mossberg 12 gauge and a rock creek 223 then maybe a pre 1897 revolver. Next gun show in upstate ny is at the end of march and im leaving there loaded for U.S traitors.
    Keep your preps safe and dont shot til you see the whites of their eyes.

  85. chaplain w says:

    In the immortal words of Seger
    Time to lock and load….
    Time to get control….
    Time to search the soul….
    And start again!

  86. eric says:

    I can’t stand and mean can’t stand when someone does right for example on the news some guy fired into the ground to stop a burgler from entering a neighbors home on the news today on fox and they took his guns!!!! That is what just sets me off and that is not called for!!! We have to do something about that. I know to bury or have them in multiple homes and such but that is bs. Id like to see what they would do if someone had a 20,000 dollar safe or something and refused to give the combo what would they do damage the safe etc? I’d get a lawyer the best and take it to court and hopefully they would have to pay etc. I dont know, you know what im trying to say people. fucking states are nuts and have no common sense.

    • Kevin2 says:


      What state did the incident happen in?

      • possee says:

        new hampshire go figure

        state motto

        “live free or die”

        rather die standing

        than live on my knees

        seeing this on the local 10 o’clock news made me sick

        enough of this f””” b”””t

        I’m done with it

        Take a gd stand!

        where’s nina?


    • possee says:


      Follow this goddamned story!!!

      This is it for me..!!!

      I am a Constitutionalist and 2nd ammendment adherent til the day I ..but this crap is over the edge and I lost it watching and hearing this just now on the local Boston stations.!!!

      Screw these laws and lawyers and politicians..

      When a law abiding citizen fires a shot in the gd ground and faces the SAME sentence as the perp for preventing a crime..we are f####d!!!



      • Legion911 says:

        possee says: “This is it for me..!!!”

        I ask what does this mean? What are you going to do? Are you going to continue feeding and nourishing the police state with your tax dollars and then whine about the goons with the badges & guns who show up at your house? YOU PAY THEIR SALARY! You are as complicit in your own subjugation as they are. The police state farm lives of its tax cattle (you) who voluntarily live on the farm. Leave the farm. Don’t feed the beast.

        What are you going to do?

      • Legion911 says:

        possee says: “This is it for me..!!!”

        I ask what does this mean? What are you going to do? Are you going to continue feeding and nourishing the police state with your tax dollars and then whine about the goons with the badges & guns who show up at your house? YOU PAY THEIR SALARY! You are as complicit in your own subjugation as they are. The police state farm lives off its tax cattle(you) who voluntarily live on the farm.

        Leave the farm. Don’t feed the beast.

        What are you going to do?

    • possee says:


      Just posted on this story as I just left the gd tv and came downstairs to my office to vent..this is total FRIGGIN B.S!!

      LIVE FREE OR DIE..state motto..what a bunch of crap..


      I only hope you;ll follow this story and proceed accordingly..



  87. USMC1991 says:

    Nearly everyday, some type of attack on liberties. Patriot Act, Taxes,NDAA, more Taxes, SOFA, Fairness Doctrine, reports of using drones in USA, etc. This is the sort of article that people I know refer to, “Grassy knoll stuff.” “Not in America.”

  88. Clark Kent says:

    Paranoid says;
    Thanks for the advise on Reloading.It looks like sound advise.I was looking on ebay,and it looks like 350.00Dollars for the starter kit.That along with the fact i have no brass casings.A person would have to do alot of shooting to warrent all of that.I think i will continue buying at the local farm supply.

    • Anonymous says:

      You don’t need $350 worth of equipment to reload. A Lee Loader does a perfectly good job and costs less than $20. Slower than using a press, but a lot easier to conceal. Depending on the cartridge you choose, brass may be free for picking up at local ranges.

  89. Death_N_Taxes says:

    I’ve just about reached a point where the only way I believe this system can be fixed is for it to collapse….bringing all the death, wealth destruction, destitution and misery along with it….

  90. mike says:

    Does anyoe ever wonder if our government isn’t doing this 2nd amendment crap to try to pick a fight with its own people? Kind of like what they are trying to do with Iran.

    What if they are just trying to bait people into throwing the first punch?

    Just a thought.

  91. bill says:

    politicians need to be lynched for there incessive lying and distortion of facts.

  92. tblount says:

    I’ve read that 22 cal rifle cartridges will be a form of currency after economic collapse. Anyway, I ordered 5,000 rounds yesterday for $225… but 10 years ago I was paying $50 for the same 5,000 rounds. I wish I had bought two hundred and fifty thousand dollars worth then… I would be a millionaire now.

    If you have a gun you don’t need to workout.

  93. notagoober says:

    well, I have sat here for an hour or two reading all the posts. WOW, i have been comming out of the land of darkness for awhile now, and If i am reading correctly it looks to me that im in the shit. I have been small time gardening in my back yard for several years, ready to kick it into high gear this spring, do some canning, but wait, it sounds like thats against the law, damn …I am selling everything materialistic that clogs my life from reality, (80%)so i can prepare myself for the good times. Want to buy some guns and ammo, but wait you mean the ammo might not work when i need it damn…. screwed again, and i might have to get special permission and pay extra fees and taxes to get a riffle or pistol…. damn screwed again…. you mean the extra food and medical supplies i try to afford during each trip to the store for weather 🙂 emergencies is against the law, damn screwed again,….. shit.
    Wont take me alive ….

  94. Rain23 says:

    Want to really lower the cost of high-crime area trauma center admissions? Tax public defenders 2% on copy paper for a “grant fund to cover the cost of mandatory sentencing for violent offenders.”

  95. Clark Kent says:

    Guns Save Lives Dot Com: A branch of the Illinois Rifle Association A RIGHT TO KEEP AND BEAR ARMS check out the sight.A real eye opener…

  96. Clark Kent says:

    Rahm Israel Emanual ; He was formaly the White House Chief Of Staff under Obungho is now the mayor of Chicago ,purely coincidetal i’m sure.
    Connect the dots.

  97. Clark Kent says:

    Illinois State Rep. Kelly Cassidy has cleaned more carpet than the Rug Doctor. You can probably tell that i live in this fucked-up state by now.I f i were born wealthy instead of so damn good-looking,I would move out of this state. But I was’nt, so I’m Stuck here with my full time job that I feel like I’m maried to. Counting my blessings and waiting for November.

  98. schlomo says:

    I live in one of those “trauma” communities, though not in Illinois. The gun violence is just a symptom of the manufactured drug war. Politicians have made drugs highly illegal, therefore selling the drugs comes with much risk of arrest, therefore the drugs are sold at a high profit to make that risk acceptable. The business attracts those who don’t have much regard for laws, and who are generally sociopathic. Because the drug trade is illegal, contracts cannot be enforced, and so the sociopathic drug dealers resort to gun violence to ‘get even’ with others, or to cut out competition. The profitability due to the illegality is the problem.

    It’s funny how it was the same way with alcohol during Prohibition. Politicians convinced us that alcohol was bad and immoral and they must run our lives by banning it. Of course, you could find the alcohol anywhere. Violence and corruption resulted. Al Capone and all that. Prohibition (illegality) served the Capones of the day, just as prohibition of drugs is serving the Mexican cartels and rogue branches of US government that import the drugs.

    What would happen if drugs were made legal and regulated just like alcohol or cigarettes or gambling? I don’t often hear about turf wars between beer companies, liquor store owners killing liquor store owners, and killings over cigarettes.

    I see the damage drugs do to people and it’s terrible. But people must be left alone to make their choices, whether they want to kill themselves with drugs or be a health nut. The essence manifesting your soul into physical reality is to have complete free will – liberty and the ability to choose for yourself, whether the choices are bad or good. You should be free to pursue whatever makes you happy if it’s not infringing on others – so shoot all the heroin you want if you are not driving while high, or robbing people to pay for your habit, or on welfare due to it.

  99. Michal says:

    I wonder if the corporations that own prisons lobby against gun rights. Dead criminals don’t fill prison beds = no money. I’m sure the prison industry is big business.

  100. System Of A Down – B.Y.O.B.

    (lyrics) Why Do They Always Send The Poor?

    Breaking Into Fort Knox…

    Where the Fuck were you?”


  101. don't-tread says:

    Double Tax our ammo and firearms? That’s highway robbery or at least a form of extortion, I think. Maybe one of those $100k per hour lawyers that are charging (bilking) our tax dollars away to represent the crooks from Fannie & Freddie can tell us the answers. It is apparent now that Fannie & Freddie is just another Black(shit) Hole in which taxpayer $$$ are poured down; while the assholes of society are lined up at the puckered funnel end, sucking up as much as they can get their greedy, shit for brains, heads to suck off. Ole Newter Grinch sucked off a least one and a half mil(that we know of) thru their con jobs. The list of guilty parties on this one corrupt organization alone runs deep. If our system worked like it should, there would be a long line of the crooks awaiting (after trial) a public hanging for treason! A firing squad would be OK too. I’ll even donate some of my over taxed ammo! Don’t just “throw the bums out”, eliminate them, and let God deal with ’em!

  102. lonelonmum says:

    You think this is crazy?

    The Greeks are being asked to pay for their own jobs!


    Sometimes truth really is stranger than fiction. Summat to be aware of if you live in a state that is in fiscal trouble.

    Here in the UK I have friends struggling to find the money to pay for background checks to obtain employment. The thin end of the wedge.

    Hang on to those guns, as this how far it can go once the populace is disarmed!

  103. lonelonmum says:


    Greece will also have it’s gold confiscated.

    If like me you believe Greece is a “practice run” for the rest of us, this worth noting.

    Hang onto those guns!

  104. Only Idiots In Politics says:

    Knives can still kill and a knife gun doesn’t need powder. So, good luck cutting crime! Crime is not the reason here anyway, to control guns. It’s politicians making sure that an unarmed Public can’t defend themselves against the police goon squads they like to turn on us.

  105. Saul says:

    WOW lots of comments. Let me add this, about 15 years ago I purchased a British .303. Now, in my Fathers junk box were a hand full of Brit. .303 armor piercing rounds. They were stamped with a date of ( 1889 ). Went to the old dump area we used as a range. Half over the bank was a full size coal gondola car. These rounds all fired and were able to penitrate one side of the gondola and produced an easy to see dimple on the other side. Not bad for old ammo.

  106. Chuck says:

    Why single out guns. The term “arms” as in the “right to bear arms” also stands for artillery, tanks, missiles, nukes.

    • Patriot says:

      I actually think our founding fathers would not have a problem with this. They didn’t put a limitation on arms, cannons and muskets (which were the howitzers and M-16’s of the day) were perfectly legal. The problem of proliferation actually even solves itself because individual people simply can’t afford artillery and tanks, let alone the cost to maintain them and the federal government can control their importation and domestic selling. Nukes are just unrealistic and would be impossible for a law abiding citizen anyway based on the licensing needed to possess nuclear material.

      Only a tyrannical government however, would fear automatic weapons in the hands of law abiding citizens and would seek to curtail their availability. Criminals can get their hands on as many as they can afford, or have semi-auto rifles converted by a gunsmith who caters to criminals. However they are not preferred because most of them are almost impossible to conceal and too expensive to discard unlike a cheap black market Nine.

  107. vapirate says:


    • Gil says:

      No – at the very least it stops the Federal Government. The States are free to regulate guns and ammo as much as they want. Note here it’s the State Governments trying to ban ammo.

  108. WHORBABYLON says:

    High Crime Area=High African Area

  109. WHORBABYLON says:

    CFR= Zionist Pigs and Whores

  110. Beowulf says:

    What, me worry? I reload.

  111. j&b fog says:

    Absolute Rubbish: The right to bear arms is enshrined constitution and for some worthless foreign operative of an attorney to claim the ammo issue is not included in the same paragraph in the constitution is in fact attacking our constitution and rule of law and should be taken in by U.S. Customs and promptly deported as required by our laws.

  112. Gary in FL says:

    It’s simple folks…learn how to reload and start buying brass, powder, loads and primers for every firearm you own. Not to mention, pick up your brass (and that of others) when target shooting….

  113. jpl_texas says:

    There’ll be a tax on air one of these days.

  114. The strongest reason for the
    people to retain the right to keep and bear arms
    is, as a last resort, to protect themselves
    against tyranny in government.

    Thomas Jefferson

  115. Thomas says:

    The 2nd Amendment applies to ammunition as well as arms. The Founding Fathers would agree.

  116. Southerner says:

    Old Tactic:

    Taxing Guns and Ammunition is Unsconstitutional:


  117. justapersonlikeyou says:

    funny how this site won’t let me LIKE any of these comments, and there are quite a few, but i can DISLIKE all of them. well i LIKED ALL the ones who believe GUNS AND AMMO should be legal and used as necessary. including the reloading comments. i’ve done it and it can be FUN!

  118. Bill says:

    If you do not write to your individual senators and congressmen about stopping our government from attacking Iran you will not have to worry about guns or bullets.If you have not noticed China and Russia have both stated to
    the U.S. to back off Iran…their alli. You can bet your bullets that if we attack Iran, China and Russia as well
    as North Korea and possibly Packistan will attack the U.S.,Britain, Austrailia,Israel as well as France and possibly Spain. Due to the U.S. Government allowing the corporations from this Nation alone to move to China For the last 15-20 years, China now has one of the most modern militaries in the world with plenty of people. With bought and stolen weapon systems that have not seen
    a major war for years. Russia too, contrary to what many people believe is very Powerful with state of the art weapon systems that they have been building for years while the U.S is in a state of low supplies weapon wise due to the wars in Iraq and Afgahnistan for way to long
    for a so called super power. The U.S will be completely
    destroyed as well as Britain and most of France and Austrailia when world war 3 begins. How many of you know
    that Obama has had all the nukes taken off the subs we have deployed around the world? Unlike Russia the U.S.
    nukes are all static and easy well known targets at this point in time. We know almost nothing of North Korea and their capability. We also know very little of China and their capability…only guesses. Russia and China are sitting very good economically. These two countries have been preparing for WW3 for years…while the U.S. has been disarming its nukes.
    Supposedly so has Russia under Treaties with the U.S. but
    it is just a ploy that disarms Russias older nukes while they have been building very powerful sophisticated nukes
    by the thousands. Russia and China will attack the U.S.
    by surprise. In one hour of one day, probably soon,the U.S will be destroyed! The only good thing that comes out of it, the politicians that have waged war against the people of the U.S. and the Constitution and stuck their nose in the business of every country of the world will not have a chance to get to their bomb shelters in time to save their lives either. Even if they do make it
    they still will not survive. The U.S., half of Canada and most of Mexico sit on an ocean of oil according to a geologist who worked for the oil companies here. When the U.S. gets nuked it will be hit so many times that the land will sink into the abyss and be burned up by all the natural gas that lies within that ocean of oil!
    Of course the oil will contribute to the heat of the fire too.
    If you have every studied the Bible you know that almost every prophesy has come true…every word to the letter. These are the last days and Gods word will be
    fullfilled. Those of you who do not believe
    will soon know the wrath of God. Just because you can not
    comprehend God does not mean he does not exist. You have two choices to make. Do you want to go to hell or go to Heaven? We are talking ETERNITY here people. FOREVER! Where do you want to be when the time comes? Hard to comprehend but as Robert Duvaul stated in one of his best westerns..”We live between the eternities”. Many people have a little knowledge of the Bible and complain
    about religion. Just because a person is a Christain does not make them perfect. We are all just human beings
    created for a specific purpose. Each one of you are very very special to God and have a talent or gift that no one on the planet has. God wants you to fulfill your
    destiny. God is Love and wants each and every one of us to love each other as we love ourselves and to be humble.
    Most of the human feelings we have conflict with the way
    God wants us to be. We have been corrupted from the beginning of time. Understand that I am like many of you…full of pride and have hated people, too selfserving and boastful among other things I am not proud of any more. I have, with the help of God overcome many of these traits and become stronger in my convictions. It took me a lifetime to do this and I still
    feel anger and other emotions at times that I am ashamed to show now. It is the hardest thing to overcome onesself to become selfless and to love even your enemies as God instructs us to be. However, for any of you that can overcome the world, you will be rewarded greatly in the Kingdom of Heaven! Think, enormous wealth
    and power. If you overcome the world and believe that Jesus is the son of God who died on the cross for the remission of our sins…you will be saved and you will make Bill Gates look like he has only a quarter in his pocket compared to you! You will have all the fun and joy
    that you can stand to your hearts content…not for a few
    weeks or on the weekends like you do now but FOREVER! ALL THE TIME! Just think of living someplace where you never will have a need to sleep or eat and that there
    will be no darkness…ever! The glory of God will be your light and you will never feel tired or sick or angry
    or unhappy..ever! You will be able to live in a beautiful place built by God himself just for you! See how SPECIAL YOU ARE to God!
    Its not easy to be a christain when people put you down
    but if you become strong in who you are and live with purpose to do the will of God always,it is not so bad.
    There really is not much you cannot do here that offends God and is a sin but it is difficult to live so
    unless you learn to Love Him as he Loves You. He wants you all to be in his kingdom.
    To close, if you give your life to God and can get your
    friends and neighbors to do so and ask for forgiveness of your sins.. God will spare this country if we as a people ask him to. He has said this in the Bible. The time is short as I write and I fear for you and your families and where you will spend eternity. I hope you choose God as you will be missed in Heaven. Hell is not
    a good place to live forever. The heat, the constant smell of sulpher, total darkness and being tormented by demons every second Forever! Think of where you want to be…Forever! Meanwhile, keep your powder dry always as God wants us to protect our families and friends and even strangers.
    Wish you all the best
    with Love

  119. Luke Thomas says:

    The surcharge is not high enough. Are you kidding me? This bill is far too lenient. For every $1 sold in ammo there should be a $1 in surcharge due to most Americans NOT having health insurance.

    • Legion911 says:

      Luke Thomas says; “For every $1 sold in ammo there should be a $1 in surcharge due to most Americans NOT having health insurance.”

      The fat in Hot Dogs and Cheeseburgers kill more americans than guns. And the possession of fatty foods is not explicitly constitutionally protected.

      There is no logical linkage btwn ammo & health insurance costs that is not superceded by a closer relationship with something else (fat in your diet for example).

      In any event the constitution says the right to bear arms shall not be **INFRINGED**. That means if the right if a 100 acre field of grass, you cannot bend the littlest blade in the corner. The right is hollow without the right to bear the ammo. Plainly logical (except to those who don’t like guns).

      The 2nd Amendment is not about hunting, or protecting yourself from crime, or sport target shooting. Its about keeping the government afraid that if they oppress its citizens too much they will rise up and change the government.

      They fact that a certain # of people die by accident, suicide, etc,etc ,etc is irrelevant. Keep in mind the 50,000 pple a year die in auto accidents. Unfortunate deaths due to widespread gun ownership is the price a free society pays to insure liberty.

  120. Anonymous says:

    Mac Slavo………..you are the ultimate fear monger. Just take a moment and listen. I know this is your web site and you can write whate you want but, DAM…….yOU MAKE IT SEEM AS IF WE ARE F*****G DONE ! Have you no hope for us sir…..? I thought that a country that was a little over 300 years old and sprinted so far, in such short time, would have a chance…! I guess not.I would just hope that we as Americans, will pull together and make this right! I’m confident in it……..are you Mac ?

  121. Nam Marine says:

    Obviously…..buy all the ammunition you can get your hands on!

  122. BAM BAM says:

    I have bad news for these people. They want to call ammo firearms. The anti-gun people have been doing this for years. Makes me want to use the combination thereof on these people.

  123. BAM BAM says:

    I’ve also got to say that these godless people think it,s ok to murder thousands of babies, yet they want take our gun away because we might kill someone. Yea, some people need a bullet. These people can have both from me. The hard way!

  124. Kegger57 says:

    Being a good old Southern boy that was raised around guns much of what is said here is outside my experience. There was always at least 1 gun in the house. It was used for hunting primarily, but it could be used to defend the home. Unfortunately, even here in the Deep South opinions are changing. Much of this has to do with the influx of those fleeing the Rust Belt. I don’t think there will be a gun grab anytime soon, but the idea of taxing ammo might be harder to beat. As someone said earlier so called temporary taxes are not so easy to get rid of. How many of you remember the Federal Excise Tax (FET) on tires? That was a tax that was instituted to pay for the first World War. It briefly disappeared in the 1990’s, but then reared its ugly head again. It may have been repealed, reinstated, repealed, reinstated, and so on since I bought tires.

  125. DirkB says:

    My advice to anyone who has a problem with states that are doing these kind of things is move out, if 40% or even 30% of people left a state they would suffer. Without your tax dollars/consumer spending their programs would suffocate.

  126. T griff says:

    Since we are on a fixed income, we go with out something each month so that we can keep our weapons and stock up on ammo. I have shut off the cable, don’t eat out but once a month, don’t go anywhere unless I have too, I will be DAMNED if they take our guns, or try to regulate how much ammo I can have, and why should the good guys have to pay for the trauma centers for the dip heads that don’t respect them.

  127. Rebecca says:

    Sounds more like a means to raise money to me. Surtaxes like this have been around for 50 years at least.

  128. rudyru says:

    F.T.P…..their laws are full a shit….changing the ammendments is unconstitutional and that includes all loophole angles that they use to attempt to twist on us citizens.

  129. smarterthanyou says:

    the 2nd ammendment does not protect ammunition. Its that simple. No guns no gun violence. If you had to take full responsibility for your weapon and its safe storage would you still want one? This means full responsibility no excuses, not for theft, or accident, or sale. Like to target shoot? why not a storage place at the gun range? if it is just for recreation and not for protection what would be the issue. maybe biometrics so only you can fire said weapon? This is so simple. if you don`t like the direction this great country is moving in leave. You have always had the choice.