Bailout is Back: Fannie and Freddie Likely Need “Additional Treasury Investment” After Derivatives Losses

by | Mar 19, 2015 | Commodities, Conspiracy Fact and Theory, Headline News | 78 comments


Image source: Nick Anfinsen, Creative Commons

Image source: Nick Anfinsen, Creative Commons

There is trouble again for federal mortgage backers and bailout queens Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, whose failures helped to trigger the housing market collapse and subsequent 2008 economic crisis.

The government enterprises are again turning their lowest profits since the recovery, thanks to derivatives losses – where most of the mortgage lender money is invested:

Fannie Mae will make its smallest payment to taxpayers in more than four years after large derivatives losses crimped its fourth-quarter profit, the government-controlled mortgage financier said on Friday.

Fannie Mae said a drop in long-term interest rates sharply reduced the value of the derivatives contracts it uses as hedges in financial markets, adding that low capital buffers are raising the risk it could need taxpayer money in the future.

The derivatives losses helped reduce quarterly profit to $1.3 billion, about 80 percent less than a year earlier, and the $1.9 billion check that Fannie Mae will cut for the Treasury in March will be the smallest since the second quarter of 2010.

Regulators are concerned that the problems leading up to the previous housing crisis are being repeated. Former Federal Housing Finance Agency director Ed DeMarco said:

“In the past year or so we’ve actually seen a renewed policy focus on questions regarding access to credit, which can risk repeating the approach that contributed to the financial crisis—that being the government’s rather vigorous concern about expanding access to credit. That’s not to blame the conservator, whoever it is, it is pointing out the consequence of having a lack of legislative action and having these two companies continuing to operate in conservatorship.”

Behind the scenes, losses are being socialized, while profits are being privatized as usual.

With growing perils, Fannie and Freddie are again looking towards a possible bailout, and the likelihood of a short term Treasury infusion of cash. Reuters reported:

“Future profitability is far from assured,” Federal Housing Finance Agency Office of Inspector General said in a report, pointing out that the firms could again chalk up losses on their derivatives portfolios, similar to those they reported in the fourth quarter.

“(This) increases the likelihood of additional Treasury investment,” the report stated.

Exactly how much the bill will be is not yet clear.

Last time there was a bailout, taxpayers were on the hook for nearly $200 billion, with some $116 billion directed into Fannie Mae and another $71.3 billion injected into Freddie Mac. Those amounts have since been repaid, but the larger problems have hardly been averted.

The reconfiguration of rules for managing Fannie and Freddie since 2008 have kept it from maintaining any significant cash reserves, and in turn put investors money in the hands of derivatives – illusive vehicles indeed, here today, gone tomorrow. Leaving a big, black hole.

Investment Research Dynamics pointed out the inherent fraud in the system, again, set up to fail and burden the lowly and powerless taxpayer:

Similar to when Fannie was plugged full of derivatives under former CEO Franklin Raines … the Government has once again looked the other way while Wall Street unloaded another avalanche of derivatives onto FNM/FRE.   Once again the Taxpayers will pay for this.

This is not a ‘warning” – this is a “get ready here it comes” statement.   The fact is that most of FNM/FRE’s “profitablity” has been driven by the same fraudulent “mark to model” accounting that has generated most the big bank profits since 2009.

And the Government used this fraudulent accounting to suck money out of FNM/FRE.   The “improved” balance sheet has enabled both FNM/FRE to issue debt to investors.  The money raised has been used reload their mortgage holdings and for dividend “payback” payments to the Treasury.

Things are teetering, teetering, close to the edge, and ready to collapse into another round of chaos… anytime now, I guess.

A more interesting question would be: who is quietly profiting from its brewing trouble?


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    1. digs

      fannie and freddie have been bankrupt since 2008.

      it is now a ‘dumping ground’ of packaged bad investment derivative bundles , hidden in billions of dollars failed home-loans.

      it will never ever be in the green, it’s designed that way on purpose.

      • FreedomFighter

        I always thought there will be more QE before they raise rates.

        • Anonymous

          If I am bankrupt, but I can keep paying you because I can write a check called Bond and cash it at my local ATM called Federal Reserve Bank who actually has no reserve of Gold ( Money).
          It is then called a racket.
          And as long as Sheeples are ok with it, and the EBT’s are paid with the same scam, it works.
          All it takes is for some major player demanding to be paid in Gold and the game is over.
          Until then enjoy the Paper.
          But remember that Paper Burns.

      • Jonny V

        There’s gonna be two kinds of people in this world….those with loaded guns, and those who starve.

      • pup

        I know someone who works at the Fannie HQ. They just laid off hundreds of people a week ago.

      • Wilson

        And the federal government has been in debt since???

        I say let Freddie, Fannie, and the other banks fail. Focus instead on prosecuting the bank officers, their board of directors, and the politicians who are owned by the banks who put us into this predicament. If our military can live in tents over in the sandbox, then we can use the surplus military gear and concertina wire to create a nice comfy prison for the bankers and politicians out in the middle of the Mojave desert.

        • sixpack

          AMEN to that!

        • durangokidd

          And destroy the habitat of the Mohave Desert Tortoise??? Not to mention the Mohave Western Rattlesnake.

          What have you been smoking man??? 🙂

          • durangokidd

            In other news, have the Swallows returned to Capistrano or have they found a new bug out location? Just asking.

            Anyone know? 🙂

            • Archivist

              The experts are going to try the mating call tapes one more year. Next they plan to build a wall of nests to see if that will attract more swallows. There are very few swallows now.

    2. hammerhead

      Maybe they should just sell the properties that were foreclosed in 08- 10 .
      There are still many out there and are being maintained at great cost .
      Close these fake banks down , the Gov has no business being in the housing market or any other business for that matter.

      Another spoonful of socialism , yum , yum .

      • PO'd Patriot

        These worthless sumbitches couldn’t run a lemonade stand.

        • The Old Coach

          And they won’t let you run one either. Don’t want to be shown up, I guess.

        • Wilson

          no, they can’t run a lemonade stand, but they do like regulating them and terrorizing little kids who make the mistake of setting one up on the curb in front of their house.

      • possee

        and what about the greatest fake bank of all..the fed?

        these luciferian bastards run the damned u.s. upside down and backwards..never mind all of the e.u. & eurasia as well..

        read the last so called ‘audit’ which explicitly exemplifies such.

        as ‘digs” so aptly stated

        it’s all by design

        nothing is by accident


        • apache54

          Like i have been saying for years WHEN has our government done ANYTHING for the good of the people? they have done NOTHING for the country , except for the freebies to gain votes, its been corrupt for years and needs to be flushed out !!

          • Enemy of the State

            everyone needs to withdraw consent , or this shit will end us all

            • Wilson

              take a lesson from the Greek citizens, withdraw everything from the banks, I read that 300 million euros were withdrawn yesterday alone and it is causing the Greek guvment major problems.

          • Enemy of the State

            everyone needs to withdraw consent , or this shit will end us all

            • Kulafarmer

              Thats where im at EOTS
              At this point im going to go with failure to comply as my removal of consent and chalk it up to civil disobedience, ill take my lumps, for now, Im betting at some point i wont be alone

              • Enemy of the State

                your already in good company as far as Im concerned

      • The Old Coach

        They can’t sell those foreclosed properties. The actual market value is way less than they claim on their balance sheets.

        I’ve given up expecting anything but criminality from this Government.

        Young man says to his father: “I’m thinking of going into organized crime when I graduate.”
        Father says “Private or public?”

      • BigB

        OK, here is the scoop on this. Not conjecture on my part nor ay type of embellishment of the facts. How do I know this? Because I am in the middle of it. I own a business that is a necessary part of the process which is underway and has been for the last 7 years.

        ” large derivatives losses crimped its fourth-quarter profit” Since 2008 the massive losses from foreclosures are staggering due to private mortgage insurance being sold by Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. If you bought a house between 2005 and 2008 with less than 5% down payment you were required to have primary mortgage insurance. 90% of the people who bought homes with less than 5% down between 2005 and 2008 have been foreclosed on.

        Most people want to blame the banks for having loose lending regulations that caused all of this. Not true. The loans were based on requirements as set out by the Federal government. Rules invented by the like of Barney Frank and Nancy Pelosi under the guise of it is everyone’s right to own a home. One of those rules was that no matter what your financial situation was you could buy a home if you had this PMI sold primarily by Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac.

        The vast majority of these loans had variable rates which means that over the course of a few years the payment would get bigger and bigger every year sing the thought process that everyone’s wages would increase enough to keep up with the payments. It didn’t.

        Homeowners by the millions began defaulting when the market crashed beginning in 2007. Up till then the prices of homes were soaring and people were able to refinance and or sell the home before they were foreclosed on. After 2007 everyone was upside down on their mortgage meaning they owed more than the house was worth. The banks that had financed these houses were on the edge of having to file bankruptcy as they were insolvent. The vast amount of the money they invested into home was gone when the house were only worth

        Remember when Bush came on TV late one night saying he had to have several trillion dollars to stop the biggest financial collapse of the economy? That money was an infusion into the banks to keep the liquid until they overwhelmed system could catch up. That system being that Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac could pay them back because they had guaranteed these loans. But they didn’t have the money either.

        So after the initial trillions of dollars given to the banks and bailouts the Fed’s started printing money, About 80 billion per month. Most of it being given to Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac to cover these loss’s. The loss’s being paying money to the banks on loans that they had guaranteed.

        It gets better and this is why everyone thinks the banks are at fault. Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac did not nor does it today have the resources in which to handle all of the foreclosures. So they contracted out to the banks that had made these loans in the first place to “service” these loans. IE, manage the foreclosure, re-financing, collection’s and what not for various fees.

        The banks found this to be a win – win situation. They received payment in full for the bad loan and were / are being paid by Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac to “service” the loans.

        Now you have millions of empty house across the nation. You may wonder why they have not been sold? Between the loan modifications which means basically that people were refinanced again using once again a variable rate that allowed them to have smaller payments which will increase every year. As a side note only about 15% of these loan mods are successful over the course of four years. They quickly go back in a default status. Starting the process all over again.

        The banks don’t want to foreclose unless they have to. They are making money off these houses every month. If they put to many on the market at one time it depresses the equities of other homeowner’s in that local area. That would also depress the new home construction which the banks are making loans on.

        Anyway I have spent to much time here today. I think you get the idea of what is happening and how we are just getting deeper and deeper into debt as a country.


        Prep like your life depends on it. Because it does.

        • Nobama

          BigB, the Fed doesn’t actually regulate the banks. It’s actually the other way around – that is, the banks control the Fed. The so-called regulations on the banks are just for show.

          • The Old Coach

            It’s worse than that. Politicians are in de facto control of the Fed, which was never ever supposed to happen.

        • The Old Coach

          “Hidden in Plain Sight” by Peter J. Wallison.

          Confirmation of the above post, if you need it.

      • durangokidd

        Not only are these foreclosed homes being maintained at great cost, but when in foreclosure they are OFF the tax rolls and the banks do not have to pay property taxes.

        Time to change that practice!!!

        If they had to pay the property taxes on these McMansions, they would be discounting the price to sell. 🙂

    3. swinging richard

      I have never been given an acceptable explanation of a derivative. If they are that dangerous then all banks should be outlawed from dealing in them.

      • Kulafarmer

        Thank your wonderful representatives who overlook the corruption in the SEC for their own personal gain, the list that is on FTTWR is the base,

      • BigB

        Nobama, not inferring either way. Swinging Richard: Derivative = code word for bad loans or packages of loans.

        Anyway you look at it the game is rigged and failure of the system is only a matter of time. Just look at the stock market the last couple of days being up and down based on the word patience.


      • The Old Coach

        Lots of different kinds of “derivatives”.

        Collateralized Debt Obligations (CDO) were/are a way to collect a batch of mortgages into a trust, and then sell shares in the trust. Banks would mix in bad loans with good, and then lie about the security of the trust.

        The worst in our present day crisis is the Credit Default Swap, which is essentially an insurance policy on some other derivative. Lots of banks sold these on the assumption that the underlying investmnent would never go bad, so they’d collect the fee but never have to pay out. The overhang of risky CDS contracts is unknown, because this market was never regulated, (and still isn’t). You could/can buy a CDS contract on an investment vehicle that you didn’t even own. Basically a bet with the seller than XYZ company would / would not default on a bond issue. Like buying a fire insurance policy on your neighbor’s house. Most market observers are saying that there may be 300 TRILLION in CDS contracts out there, and 70% to 80% are duplicates, covering the same underlying investement. Like saying that you and a dozen other people all get paid off if your neighbour’s house burns down.

    4. digs

      how crazy is your old lady???

      Baby ‘cut out and removed’ from pregnant woman’s womb after she was attacked while answering a Craigslist ad for children’s clothing

      Mother-to-be, 26, went to a house in Longmont, Colorado, at 2.30pm responding to an ad for baby clothes
      The seven months’ pregnant woman was beaten, stabbed and had baby cut out of her womb, police said
      The baby died but the mother survived after undergoing surgery
      The suspect was taken to hospital by her husband. She was carrying the victim’s dead baby and telling hospital staff she had suffered a miscarriage


      • Enemy of the State

        just wait until the dam breaks and this country is in full melt down mode ,, this situation you speak of above will look like a walk in the park

        • buttcrackofdoom

          10%, or MORE of americans are on mood-altering drugs(the legal ones). IMAGINE what happens when they go cold-turkey…..

      • Enemy of the State

        just wait until the dam breaks and this country is in full melt down mode ,, this situation you speak of above will look like a walk in the park

        • PO'd Patriot


        • PO'd Patriot


        • Nobama

          Just curious – why all the double-posts now?

    5. Gonetoolong

      Look around, what the hell is any different structurally in our economy than it was in 2007? Nothing. People can argue that things have gotten worse, but with just an optimistic view, let’s say that they are the same. Well, the shit fell apart in 2007, why wouldn’t it now? No real growth of a foundation of career jobs. No production to speak of in the US. Only more costs, illegals, welfare families, etc. This shit was floated on QE and low rates. What will be left when the training wheels are pulled?

    6. Enemy of the State

      WTF is up with the DBBL postings ?

      • hammerhead

        Its echo , for dramatic effect

    7. Sgt. Dale

      Fannie and Freddie remind me of the Leaches and Zombies out there that do nothing and want more. One day the more will run out. AND IT CAN’T BE TOO SOON!!!

    8. AC

      The important thing is that the banks managed to dump their worthless crap onto the back of the taxpayers, instead of being saddled with the consequences of their stupidity and incompetence themselves.

      • The Old Coach

        I’m still convinced that the big banks were allowed to run these schemes as a quid pro quo for going along with the Frank/Cuomo/Clinton/Reno scheme to buy votes by giving out mortgages to their high risk constituencies.

        The banks didn’t start this hare, the Democrat party did, (with some help for lizardoid RINOs like Juan McVain and Phil Gramm).

        I have met a couple or three banker types who quit their jobs in the late ’90s due to the obvious criminality that was going on. My son-in-law is one of them. All that remain in the money world are the crooks-and-liars types who revel in their own cupidity.

    9. Ass hat

      A house is the biggest purchase anyone can make. What the hell kind of deals are struck behind the scenes to get banks to engage in risky loans. My wife had 2 jobs and they wouldn’t loan her $ for a house and the jobs together weren’t good enough for this investment. They kept upping the down payment to get the house. So we just bought the house cash. The banks a fuckin thieves they would’ve took a $40,000 down payment and gave the loan to her knowing full well she wouldn’t be able to pay it off at some point. The bank wins every time they keep all the $ you have invested and take the home back later to sell to another victim. Look at cars another big purchase. They have commercials on tv for these deals saying no money down tax title reg included for one low price. Oh they don’t care if your credit is bad come on down we we will get you a ride. They are ready to bake a bad deal take your trade that might be worth a few bucks ask you about a possible down payment maybe a few thousand tax return. They don’t really care if you can afford the car. They just want some$ now. They will repossess the car later for 1 missed car payment. Use your head don’t get sucked into deals you can’t afford keep saving and wait till you can afford don’t let finance company’s tell you that you can afford something. People keep taking the bait and losing their shirt creating bubbles in markets. So much property and cars for sale. There is no hurry to buy.

      • Kulafarmer

        Thats the thing, right now with interest rates at almost zero many owners or realestate investors who hold the paper on multiple properties are willing to play bank and carry the note on a house, i would rather pay joe schmoe the interest than some bank,

      • notsogreat

        ass hat–went through same deal.
        Had 10,000 CASH for down pmt. on 80,000 house in 2013–was told that a late pmt. to BofA in 2008 was proving me faulty.
        Had 50,000 equity in house now living in.
        Wanted to downsize, but get small house first; then sell big house.

        I actually asked outright–you are telling me that if husband left envelope on sun visor and caused late pmt–you would not do business with us??

        HE SAID ‘YES’. Changed banks next day.

        Real reason?? I think he was pissed that I just used the bank to cash my SS, cashed out and paid cash for everything and let him know my cash pmt. was NOT in his bank.

      • notsogreat

        Wrong ass hat–the bank continued to make it harder because they weren’t gonna make home loans any way any how.
        The bank officer just keeps scheduling appts. to keep his job looking busy–he ain’t stupid.

    10. Enemy of the State

      Need to follow Icelands lead on this .. time to dust up the bankers new cells , and find some orange jump suits and chains

    11. Copperhead

      IMHO the head of the snake= UNITED NATIONS!!

      • sixpack

        Yep, owned and operated by the globalist elites, for the globalist elites.

    12. The Prophet

      When you can’t pay off your debt, you’re in trouble. When you can’t even pay the interest on the debt, you’re insolvent. The US government is insolvent. Temporarily held afloat by the printing press. That’s how close we are to the end of this nonsense.

      • Kulafarmer

        Yet the bone head politicians just keep giving $ away, domestic freebies and cronyism and foreign aid,
        Someone needs to sit these assholes down and explain economics 101 to them

        • BigB

          All we are is in a controlled depression. No soup lines, we now have EBT cards. When unemployment runs out for some one they just go on social security disability. If you can’t get that then you get welfare benefits equaling in some places more $ wise than the average working American makes. The U. S. government is running a Ponzi scheme on the world. When it all crumbles the American people will be considered worse than the Nazi’s after WW2.


          • Anonymous

            So right you are about us being in a controlled Depression. And the EBT cards instead of soup lines is so in line with our society today of valuing appearance over substance.

            On a separate note, is there an overriding reason why the Pentagon brass ring chasers who dreamed up the idea of donating half a billion dollars of our hard earned tax money in the form of tons of U.S. military equipment to, of ALL places, Yemen — one of the world’s most unstable, backward and unreliable countries — which now has been abandoned and is officially “lost,” have not been knocked down to corporal???? Where were the longtime area experts who could have told the Pentagon that this was a very bad idea??? Why were there no plans in place to get that equipment either out of there or rendered inoperable before the inevitable takeover of the radicals occurred???
            Who has been running the show at DOD????


            • I miss America

              Any of the brass that don’t agree with/support the POTUS have been resigned or suicided.

        • sixpack

          I think if politicians want to give money away to other countries, it should come out of their own personal pockets. There should be a law that forbids giving public tax money to foreign countries.

          Any politician who votes to fund a terrorist group, should be jailed under the patriot act.

          Any politician who gets caught doing it covertly, should be droned and jailed if they somehow survive.

    13. Joe in JT

      Fannie and Freddie have since paid back the $200 billion from 2008. Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ….yeah …right. Prove it!

      • KY Mom

        “The last two members of a group of (18) U.S. health care workers whose colleague is being treated for the Ebola virus returned on Wednesday from Sierra Leone to the United States…

        One being monitored in Nebraska develops symptoms of Ebola, moved to biocontainment unit.

        Nebraska Facility Prepares For New Ebola Patient

        Currently there are over 120 people (many CDC workers who have returned from West Africa) being monitored for Ebola.

        “An American healthcare worker being treated in Maryland for Ebola is in critical condition as his health continues to get worse.”

        Three healthcare workers from the group who returned this week and are being monitored “did take private planes to get to Georgia.”

        “The healthcare workers won’t actually be at the hospital. Instead they’ll stay somewhere nearby.”

        (Recent articles have stated those being monitored for Ebola are staying in HOTELS.)

        “Since the screening process began in October at Hartsfield-Jackson Atlanta International Airport, more than 900 people (954) have been monitored, 24 of them taken to the hospital for further evaluation, but none according to the state, have actually been diagnosed with Ebola.”

        There is no mention of what the “official diagnosis” was for these 24 who were hospitalized.

        It makes one wonder. With government data such as unemployment, we know there are “official numbers” and “actual numbers”.

    14. Anonymous

      “The last two members of a group of (18) U.S. health care workers whose colleague is being treated for the Ebola virus returned on Wednesday from Sierra Leone to the United States…

      One being monitored in Nebraska develops symptoms of Ebola, moved to biocontainment unit.

      Nebraska Facility Prepares For New Ebola Patient

      Currently there are over 120 people (many CDC workers who have returned from West Africa) being monitored for Ebola.

      “An American healthcare worker being treated in Maryland for Ebola is in critical condition as his health continues to get worse.”

      Three healthcare workers from the group who returned this week and are being monitored “did take private planes to get to Georgia.”

      “The healthcare workers won’t actually be at the hospital. Instead they’ll stay somewhere nearby.”

      (Recent articles have stated those being monitored for Ebola are staying in HOTELS.)

      “Since the screening process began in October at Hartsfield-Jackson Atlanta International Airport, more than 900 people (954) have been monitored, 24 of them taken to the hospital for further evaluation, but none according to the state, have actually been diagnosed with Ebola.”

      There is no mention of what the “official diagnosis” was for these 24 who were hospitalized.
      It makes one wonder. With government data such as unemployment, we know there are “official numbers” and “actual numbers”.

    15. EnemyoftheFed

      So im from montana. this is a horrible thing and many of us are not going to stand for this. if there is a march on the capitol, count me in. this is bullshit and they know it. time to fight montanans, if the ballots dont work there is always that other box.

    16. GrandpaSpeaks

      See how they run. Research the Gramm–Leach–Bliley Act and study how that got passed. Thanks a lot Bill, thanks a lot Nancy. It is only right that if the taxpayer backstops the losses, then maybe they should have a hand in the profits. Treat banks like they do their customers.
      Banks should be operated on a cost plus basis due to their monopolistic power and the nature of mans greed. If 95% of them shut down and quit the business because of it….perfect.
      We should be asking can a repeal be reinstated if time has proven the first version correct. And why was it that it was the privately owned Federal Reserve that gave the newly formed illegal at the time Citigroup a pass before the law was? How does one get away with that?
      That was the beta test for Executive legislation and bank bailouts and just the crickets chirped. Just need a pen and a phone now.
      We promulgated some folks. A kiss between the trusts would be nice once in a while. The whole banking system is a fraud. I am ready to pivot East myself in search of that kiss.
      Ever had a member of your family with a gambling habit? Did they ever take out a second mortgage on your house and then gamble that away? Would that piss you off as you are getting evicted? Maybe when they keep all the winnings if they ever do win would that make you upset? How about they repay $96 on every $100 they borrow if they ever do decide to pay you back? Would it upset you if they gave themselves signing authority on your bank account and made it joint without your permission? I find this evolution in banking simply incredible.
      Your bow must be deeper, maybe you had better just kneel instead. Their sword is coming down but it is not to Knight you on the shoulder. It is a sideways swipe.
      I has come to swipes or gallows in debtors prison. Your turn has come and you hold the key to the cell in one hand and a pile of rope in the other. Why do you hold up game play? Normalcy bias is a very dangerous thing when one is facing disaster. Make your own fate your decision. You must be a player now. A rare second chance, like Fannie and Freddie’s rarer still third one. Make no mistake, it is thievery. There will be no end to it unless we make it. v

    17. Lustful Fuck Salesman

      It’s all ass basswords, the DJIA should be at 800 and the USD should be 40; all of the money printing… gold should be at $15,000 and silver $2,350; and with the real true TRIPLE-F US credit rating… the interest on a 30 year mortgage with a minimum of 30% down ought to be 20%, and a small $1,000 savings account ought to be yielding 9%. The true state of the economy is worse than 1932, but it has been wallpapered over since 1972 when the money printing began and in 1982 money printing took off, and since 1992 the emperors lost there minds.

    18. aljamo

      If you pay cash for a car and thus own the title outright, in my understanding that car can be seized from you by cops high on the civil forfeiture swindle game that is the rage all over America. Who wants to drive that car out and about, only to risk it being stolen by the new organized crime cabal, the cops. Try getting your property back. You are guilty until proven innocent, at a very high cost even having committed no crime. They don’t want one you are making payments on. Our streets and highways have been taken over by dangerous ripoff cops.

      • Enemy of the State

        thats why a lot of people at least in my area dont drive anything newer than at least 6 years old , all paid for and keep the maintenance up

        if the cops decide to take it they just have a 2,000$ POS on their hands

        although I have seen the cops target nice, and or newer cars or trucks on the roads up here , it indicates money, leased vehicle or someone who has payments to make

        screw that all my cars are paid for , and I aint buying any new government tattle tail cars or trucks either

        Id rather buy something older without all the government listening devices installed, and fix it up

        • aljamo

          Enemy of the State… I agree old cars are better. I’m still driving a 1991 Toyota Tercel I bought new for $7500 total. 24 years and only about a grand for repairs in that span. Got 167,000 miles on it and still think it would make it cross country. Why can’t I buy a car this reliable and low priced today?

    19. JRS

      The conundrum is the fact that even if mortgage is paid off, you are still a renter via tax and code repression.

      When the state’s agent come to the door for tribute or else what do you do?


      “We’re sorry. It’s not us. It’s the monster. The bank isn’t like a man.”

      ‘Yes, but the bank is only made of men.’

      “No, you’re wrong there – quite wrong. The bank is something else than men. It happens that every man in a bank hates what the bank does, and yet the bank does it. The bank is something more than men, I tell you. It’s the monster. Men made it, but they can’t control it.”

      The tenant farmers are pushed to anger at the blamelessness and absurdity of their situation.

      ‘We’ll get our guns like Grampa when the Indians came. What then?’

      “Well, first the Sheriff and then the troops. You’ll be stealing if you try to stay. You’ll be murderers if you kill to stay. The monster isn’t men, but it can make men do what it wants.”

      ——————-THE GRAPES OF WRATH——————-

      The monster is the system that requires you to participate on some level or else they will kill you. Even if you give up everything and live under a bridge, they will harass you and kill you if you don’t comply.

      There are too many depending on the monster to ever not “follow orders” when it comes to their paycheck.

    20. aljamo

      Also on civil forfeiture, who can attempt travel across the Interstate system knowing the cops lay in wait to steal any cash you may have in your possession, no matter if it is 100% your earned legally cash. That is an alarming development and it sickens me and my desire to travel without being set upon. That is a major threat to limit travel in America. One may avoid banks, it’s not yours if it is not in your possession, apparently on the road it’s not yours if it is in your possession. Something has got to give on this injustice.

      • sixpack

        I wonder what they’d do if people start treating the badged thieves like thieves…that isn’t just a driver’s license and proof of insurance sticking out the window…

        • Enemy of the State

          that used to happen in this country.. back in the “ol days stealin’ was stealin’ , no matter who was doin the stealin’

          plenty of star badged government wanna bees got their fill of lead trying to take what was another mans , and it was justified.. as it still should be to this day

          someday in some state there’s going to be a person traveling with whats left of their life savings , and they aint going to take kindly to ANY one trying to take it from them

          that’s where the saying for Sam Colt’s weapons came into play

          God made man..Sam Colt made them all equal …its a pretty foolish game given the current way things are

          only a stupid cop would think its a good idea

    21. Karen Hudes

      There has been a sting operation for the rule of law — the Board of Governors of the World Bank and IMF has just pulled the plug on the scam called fractional reserve fiat currencies that has been perpetrated on us by the Network of Global Corporate Control For updates on the transfer to national currencies out of the gold in a trust called the Global Debt Facility, follow @karenhudes, and if you don’t use social media, many of the posts are at—updates.html

    22. Mountain Trekker

      It’s Got To Be Close To The End!

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