A Repeat of the Great Depression Is Our Best Case Scenario

by | Sep 20, 2011 | Headline News | 338 comments

Do you LOVE America?


    President of the Ayn Rand Institute Yoran Brook says that we’re essentially out of solutions for the economic, financial and monetary crisis facing America. He joins The Daily Ticker to discuss the general sentiment from the institute’s recent Atlas Shrugged Revolution dinner, which featured attendees like Euro Pacific Capital’s Peter Schiff and John Tamny of RealClearMarkets:

    The mood in the room was definitely that this country is heading towards some kind of collapse, some  kind of significant disaster. That everything kind of is lined up and nobody, really, in the political realm, out there in the culture seems to have solutions…

    If we look long-term. If we look at the structural problems of the United States, at over $100 Trillion in unfunded liabilities, of ongoing deficits, of no political solutions, of nobody talking about real cuts, where does this all lead?

    Unless we have real structural change I think it will [lead to disaster]… Unless you change the approach to government, unless you’re willing to challenge the very notion of what government needs to do, you’re not going to change it in a fundamental way.

    …Unless you make a fundamental change in our approach to entitlement, in our approach to government, we can buy time, but we’re not going to change the outcome.

    Unless there’s alternatives, unless people come up with real solutions, the crisis could be anywhere from a major economic depression and we learn our lesson and we climb out of it, to what happened to Rome, which really is the dark ages…

    …I think we have to remember that…civilizations in human history have declined, they’ve disappeared…Sometimes in human history mankind has gone through long periods of time of just struggling, of it being very hard to survive.

    Based on the assessment of Mr. Brooks, and that of other analysts and commentators (including ourselves), our best case scenario appears to be a major economic depression, not a short-cycle 18 month recession (or even double dip), but a long-term cyclical depressionary bust that occurs roughly every 70 – 80 years. It’s not just Yoran Brooks and alternative media that is warning of this possibility, but well respected and influential economists and business figures like Nouriel Roubini, who just today in an opinion piece for Reuters writes, “the risks ahead are not just of a mild double-dip recession, but of a severe contraction that could turn into Great Depression II,” and George Soros who recently wrote that more centralization is the “only way to forestall a possible financial meltdown and another Great Depression.”

    In fact, it is our strong belief that, based on the high rate of unemployment (~23%), food stamp participation (~17%), foreclosures (officially in excess of 4 million home thus far), rising food prices (13.2% annualized), and negative GDP growth (~ negative 2.0%), speaking of  another Great Depression as if it is a future threat is inaccurate.

    We are now well within Great Depression territory. It may not seem like a depression to the masses because of modern day digital currencies, centrally planned and managed economies, near tyrannical government control, the power of the global mainstream media to control perceptions, and the never ending bread and circuses doled out by politicians. But, make no mistake, we are already in the midst of Mr. Brook’s ‘best case scenario.’

    Our only hope is that it does not go full-on worst-case scenario, because then we’ll be talking about the widespread collapse of entire nations, similar to the Roman example cited.

    Hat tip Sketch


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      1. I believe we have been in a depression for quite some time. The stock market may be up about 30% since the crash in 2008, but most folks are doing everything they can to survive. I doubt the average person in the US has a clue. Many people are going to wake up one day and find they no longer have a job, or the job they do have will pay for the very basics of living. It is worrisome indeed, and I agree things are not looking like they will improve anytime in the near future.

        • Agreed… There were huge stock market up-moves after 1929, yet the country was still in depression. Rising stock prices and large profits for Wall Street mean nothing to the guy who has been out of work for a year and is struggling to feed his family… And there are at least 25 million people in that position right now. They could care less that the Dow Jones is over 10,000.

        • Your right. I peg the housing bust to August 2006, many say I’m nuts, but that is when large track home builders started cutting production. Its also when our contractors starting going out of business.

          Officially the say the recession started in December 2007 so 18 months puts us at June 2009 which is officially when the recession ended, officially. But it didn’t. In my opinion and looking at everything except the stock market, we entered a depression phase in June 2009.

          For us main street business owners here in Florida we have been in a world of shit since the 2004 Hurricane season. Add in the 2005 Hurricane season, Charlie Crist, BP the recession and Depression and I’m surprised I’m still in business.

          I have always said that housing is the key to America getting out of the depression. Two years ago when I wrote a paper on housing prices and stated we would see housing prices back in the 1968 range before we turn this around.

          My reasoning is simple, post collapse you will have to pay cash. For most people that is going to put housing in the $8000 to $30000 range.

          On our current trajectory I’m placing the bottom of the housing market at 2017-2019 so we have a long way to go. I’m also forecasting we will never see 2007 housing prices again or at least not in my life time.

          Forecasting is the best I can do because like a Hurricane its unpredictable and is a moving target. I know this sounds like doom and gloom but I’ll put my forecast up against any of the highly educated elites.

          The one part of my forecast no one seems agree with is post collapse, if we collapse. The population of the USA could be reduced by as much as 80 million people.

          • Hi Patriot One,

            I agree with your assestment on our Housing Industry Collapse.

            I saw what was coming as a developer and barely got out with my shirt on my back in 2006.

            The only thing I would like to modify in your comment is the long range house prices.

            I compltely agree with you about where the house prices are going in the near and even long term future, the only thing I disagree on is the numerical cost of a house in dollars once our currency enters into its hyper-inflation stage, which by some measures, has already started.

            I agree with your long term house prices as a function of value, but a house that cost even $30,000 today, after hyper-inflation a few years down the road could cost $100,000 or more in depreciated FRN (Federal Reserve Notes – American Currency).

            As for population reduction,…spot-on.

            This is the STATED GOAL of the Globalists, to reduce WORLD population by as much as 80% to less than 1 billion.

            One of the mechanisms it will be done with, besides starvation and exposure to diseases and horrible living conditions, will be thru the use of engineered pandemics.

            They already have the pathogens they will release into population centers, which will then give FEMA the excuse to execute COG (REX84) protocols, also known as Maritial Law) to quarantine people into “luckily available” treatment centers (one of the 800 or so FEMA Concentration Camps ALREADY built around this country) where of course the simple majority will leave threw a cremation oven exhaust vent.

            There is no doubt this is where all this TREASON is leading.

            It seems people have aready forgetten about that little town called Nazi-Germany, where they to made excuses for shoving people into ovens.

            Lord help us and wake people up to their own peril!

            JD – US Marines – Defenders Of The US Constitution

            • My theory in a hyperinflation stands. While we will have hyperinflation in food, fuel, clothing, ammo. Debt based assets boat, cars and homes will decline.

              It will be much the same as we are going thru now. We will be in a bi-flation situation for some time, maybe as long as a decade.

              With that said housing will continue to decline till it hits a cash buy price and will only increase again if we have the use or ability to mortgage.

            • Patriot One and US Marines,
              I would generally agree with both of you, but US Marines brings up a good point about house prices in the event those clowns at the Federal Reserve hyper-inflate the dollar. In that case, house prices may soar, but in that event the cost of the food in the new frig may cost more than a new car costs nowadays.

            • While I agree that a major shit storm is coming our way soon, I must take issue with this statement: 800 or so FEMA Concentration Camps ALREADY built around this country

              Does anyone on this forum really believe that these camps actually exist? A quick analysis of the numbers tell me that if in fact they do exist they’d be TO BIG TO HIDE. Here’s why: assume for a minute that we do have an 80% reduction, by what ever means, to the current population. Current population is 309M (source: http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/states/00000.html)

              309 X .2 = 61.8M. 61.8M/800 = 77,250 (77.3K rounded)

              Structures and/or fenced in area’s big enough to house, feed and control 77.3K people are TO BIG TO HIDE. As examples, look at low income housing projects in major metro areas like Boston, NYC, DC, Atlanta, LA etc. These buildings are large and take up a lot of real estate. Some enterprising journalist (and use I journalist in the true sense of the word, not what passes for journalism these days) in the Main Stream Media somewhere would have come across at least one of them by now and written an article and asked embarrassing questions about what these structures are for. Fox News would be all over this, just for the embarrassment factor to the current and perhaps former federal administration.

              Now I realize that the MSM are, for the most part, not honest when covering news stories. However, with something this big and and as supposedly wide spread as these FEMA camps, some journalist somewhere would be pissing his or her pants trying to get this story out because it would be THE SCOOP OF THE CENTURY. BTW, I saw the post, some time back, that attributed Ron Paul as answering yes to the question that they exist. I don’t believe that he knew what question he was answering.

              While I do believe that there are some COG camps in existence around the country and that their locations are kept sort of secret for “National Security Reasons” I’d be willing to bet that there aren’t more than 10 such places in existence, if that many.

              So my question and challenge to all of you that keep repeating this FEMA camp RUMOR is this: WHERE ARE THEY? Post the addresses or map coordinates of 20 of these places, from around the country, so that the dis-believers can see the truth for themselves. With 800 or so of them it should be real easy to find the addresses of 20.

              That’s my two cents. Keep on preppin’ and God Bless and keep you all out of harms way.

            • US Marine and Patriot One,

              You assume that the dollar will be worth what it is worth now (maybe not). I remember when Mexico came up with the New Peso to replace the Peso. They said that each New Peso was worth three old Pesos and forced everyone to turn in their old currencies at 3-1. How will this work with out dollar and will the government declare that you owe the same amount straight accross to prevent their friends at the banks from losing any money due to hyper-inflation?

            • Oh puh-leez, Ovens??? Next you’ll be talking about “six million.” What rubbish!

            • TO NAVY VET,

              I couldn’t respond to your post below as it was at its limit.

              As for the “800” camps, I do take that figure lightly, but do not discount that there are a number of these camps around the country. In fact I did see a very comprehensive list of these sites some 3 months ago, but I don’t recall the site. you can find it yurself if you just type in “FEMA Camps Locations” or something to that effect.

              Just type in FEMA Camps. One site will lead you to another, than another, than the KBR Contracts,… just keep digging, you’ll see what I mean.

              You also seemed to misunderstood my statement when I said population reduction via the FEMA camps.

              I don’t expect that they will “lock everyone” up at one time, however, over a protracted period of time they can begin using them, and then expand as these physcos see fit.

              I did not mean to sound like I beieve that they can currently hold 80% of the population in these camps, they simply wouldn’t have the logistical support in terms of manpower or food, but then again, people starving to death in prison camp is nothing new.

              What some don’t realize, is that a change was made to the COG Protocols that permit “Tempoarary” use of military bases as detention centers. Factor in the camps actually build under the $400 Million Dollar KBR contract, plus all the military bases, both currently in use, and ones that we’re closed, but could be quickly reactivated for “temporary use”, and you have a sizable amount of people that can be held. You don’t need prison buildings, just a “cage to hold the animals”, like Andersonville was during the civil war.

              Again, I don’t expect they would do it all at once, and they have not been nice enough to tell us how long they expect to take, so one can only guess.

              As for a comment below that scoffed at the “oven” comment I made. Some people in Nazi-Germany found the very same comment just as ridiculous in 1941, when they were in full swing.

              The reason you would need them here, is if a “pandemic” broke out, the dead constitute a biological hazard. Even if buried, does not guarantee containment or destruction of the pathogen. Only one thing does that,.. intense heat. Thats an oven however you want to try and describe it.

              It is beyound the scope of a public blog like this to discuss my knowledge of some of these Bio-agents, but rest assured, our gov’t ALREADY has them in inventory.

              If you do a little digging on the subject,… you’ll find plenty of information, documents, videos, lectures and depositions on the subject that should make any sensible person feel something between terrified and appalled.

              Remember, they have genetic-specific organisms, which means people of certain genetic characteristics are far more suseptible than others.

              In addition, they have Binary, Trianary Redux Pathogens, meaning that you could be infected by one strain which may give you nothing more than symptoms of a mild cold, then you get the second pathogen (the Binary in this case) which is similar, but not identical to the first, so the antibodies attack it as if it was the first, but the presence of those antibodies triggers a genetic switch in the second pathogen which would not have been activated without the presence of the antobodies from the first germ.

              This activation may then cause the germ to go into a hyper-production phase of Mycotoxins that will have a set of effects as DESIGNED to do, including death.

              Its incredibly horrifying stuff all based on genetic research which is one of those technological advancements we would be better off dis-inventing.

              Do I guarantee this is what they are going to do,..absolutely not! In fact I pray they aren’t crazy enough to let that genie out of the bottle, but then again a government that “sacrifices” 3,000 of its own people in a single day (9/11) can’t be viewed as rational in any way, shape or form.

              I only know it is in fact one of the best methods they have available to cause mass casulties, and since they have the innoculations to all the pathogens they create for release, there is really very little risk to them selves.

              Hope that helps a little Navy.

              Don’t get hung up on specific numbers for stuff like this. Rather try to view the big picture to see if it seems to fit what they are trying to accomplish, however pyschotic it appears to the rational mind.

              Thanks – JD – US Marines

            • Patriot and US Marine, I believe you are both correct. Just realize both of your summations will be regional.
              Additional costs (taxes,utilities,etc..) will factor into the costs. Plus; who owns the property, the banks or individuals.
              As far as FEMA camps; think base foreclosures and newly built prisons (that are unoccupied). These places are for reeducation not to provide a living environment for those that won’t surrender.

          • 9/11 was a call back to God. When Pearl Harbor was hit the nation turned back to God( briefly) and we won WWII.
            9/11 hit our economic and military strength centers as a warning and a reminder that we are strong in these BECAUSE we had always tried to follow Gods commandments. No that is not crazy. Look up: Isiah 9:10, Ezekiel 33:1-6 and Jonathan Cahn ( a messianic/Christian Jew)who lives in NY and began to see parallels between the 2 texts listed above and the US. Pride and strength is not what made this nation great, it was our trust in God. We set this nation under Gods care and He has protected us. He lifted that protection when we drifted away from Him and we had Pearl Harbor and WWII. He lifted it again and we had 9/11. But instead of turning to Him to ask for protection and grace, we stood proud and defiant to the world and proclaimed OUR strength and resolve.
            Pride goeth before a fall.

            • The Federal Government was responsible for 9/11, not boogy men wearing turbins!

            • It was the Mossad who executed the destruction the WTC. Check SHTF America for the 911 Summary.

            • To navyvet:

              They turned the superdome into a female camp real quick. Think about how many sports stadiums, empty wall marts, and soon to be more empty super stores are in the future. Just saying.

            • Hi C,

              Next time you talk to your buddy God, please give him a message for me:
              You’re an asshole, God. Really sick of your violent joke on humanity.

            • C you got it right!
              God has always been America’s Protector.
              We left God, so He has removed His Protection from us!
              We are under God’s Judgment right now.
              All this extreme weather, and our nation is financially collapsing.
              50,000,000 abortions(MURDERS)!
              We have “in my opinion,” evil men in authority over us, via our federal government.
              God is not mocked, a man reaps what he sows, Galations 6:7.
              So would not a nation reaps what it sows?
              “God stay away,” is the message we have as a nation sent God.
              So God is staying away!
              It’s obvious mass rioting is coming.
              And finally when America is involved with so much internal trouble, Russia will “sneak nuclear attack” our nation from the east, and China will land troops on the west coast.
              Amos 3:7 Surely the Sovereign LORD does nothing
              without revealing his plan
              to his servants the prophets.
              Many have had visions of this occurring.
              God has decreed this judgment on us.
              How many people who read this will repent, and seek God’s mercy?
              Repentance and returning to God is our only hope, but you see by being attacked for what you said, shows the hardness of heart of some.
              They refuse to know God’s Word, or twist it to suit their desires.
              “IT’S OVER,” just waiting, and and trusting God for His Protection.

            • The US lost just over 400k military and civilians in conflict during WW2, the UK nearly 500k, the Russians over 15,000,000 and perhaps up to 20,000,000. I would say that ‘GOD’ has sod all to do with it and in the end man fights and dies in our petty and not so petty earthly conflicts.

          • Have you gone out to try and buy a house lately? If something hits the market at the low end there are people with cash ready to buy. They are snagging them up here; the one’s the banks are sitting on hoping for some ridiculous money are sitting forever but those priced to move are moving. You can score 8 to 12% ROI easy as rents have not declined like homes have. I hope you are right and they fall all the way to $8,000 then I’ll never ever ever have to work again renting those out for $500 a month.

          • PO: Forget housing. Housing cannot return for at least a generation, even if the economy turns around tommorrow. The demographics for housing are OVER.

            With workers wages at $10-12/hr home prices must continue to fall to be affordable. And they will.

            • Durango Kid

              I know housing is dead, you know its dead, but the masses have not figured that out yet. When they do the Shit will hit the fan.

              Personally I think people with skills and doctors will be just fine post collapse. Its the white collar professional that will perish, accountant’s, attorney’s, banker, politicians. I would also include anyone who can’t survive without a government check or medically dependent.

              Survival of the fittest will be the natural law of the land. Kill or be killed, its been my experience there is nothing romantic or pretty about this type of survival. Its war and its messy.

            • DK wrote, “With workers wages at $10-12/hr home prices must continue to fall to be affordable. And they will.”

              That sure is contrary to what you wrote awhile back about housing in Arizona, You said housing had reached a bottom in AZ. as if it was special. You are Something else now.

          • It’s all about jobs and opportunity, or should I say, regulations getting in the way.

            Patriot One wrote, “I have always said that housing is the key to America getting out of the depression.”

            Imho, that’s incorrect, you might enjoy thehousingbubbleblog.com perhaps you’ll see housing is not the leader,… also, imho, the pop of the bubble was 2005.

            I like what you wrote here, “With that said housing will continue to decline till it hits a cash buy price and will only increase again if we have the use or ability to mortgage.”

            Also, a side note for everyone else, consider this five minute video when you hear People talk about who caused 9/11 as if they are the source of all truth – it’s only five minutes long and very jammed packed:

            • Clark: Its an interesting link and it is very jammed packed as you say, but it doesn’t name a perpetrator as responsible, nor does it build a case against anyone, including the US government; who many believe is responsible or is a potential co-conspirator with other individuals and / or groups under a false flag attack.

              It is just a collage of intersting photos.

              It TOTALLY ignores the thermolite that was used to bring down the buildings and the Israeli / Mossad connection to the WTC destruction.

              And it TOTALLY ignores lots of evidence to connect Mossad to the act of destruction, and their participation in the events, including the tracking of the terrorists while they were in the USA, or the control of two Israeli companies who control virtually all of the routing for international and national phone calls, within and outside of the United States?

              The fingerprints of the Mossad and thus Israel are ALL over this one.

              Whether parts of te American government, like the CIA, were involved in the plot, I have no idea, but it wouldn’t surprise me if they were.

              But with respect to this video, why would the producer deliberately ignore all of the evidence that points to Israel and the Mossad as particpants in a false flag attack, unless there is a deliberate attempt to mislead and misdirect anyone from pursuing that line of inquiry?

              I say Israel because there is no way that the Mossad would undertake this operation without the knowledge and approval of its head of state at the time.

            • Uh, yeah, Mossad caused F-16’s to stand down for an hour.

              You have to try really hard to figure it totally ignores Anything.

        • I hear ya brother! Listen up. We..everyone needs to pick one day, just one. March down into Washington. A PEACEFULLY protest. Let ’em no just how many people are getting screwed by this. Open their eyes! Get heard! Tell Everyone! Lets do this!

          • March in front of your local Congressman’s house. Let them know that YOU know who is responsible for this mess and where they live.

            That will get their attention. That and blood on the streets of America. Otherwise you are wasting your time.

            Hope its their blood.

            • This is exactly the kind of thinking those in power are hoping for: “That will get their attention. That and blood on the streets of America. Otherwise you are wasting your time.”

              There’s Nothing like giving them a reason.

              Opting Out Peacefully is the Only solution. Withdraw consent.

            • Clark: Opting out? That is the action of a coward and HISTORY shows that appeasement NEVER works against aggressors and those who desire to manipulate and enslave others, even if its only economic enslavement. Read a little psychology; that’s Psyche 101.

              The lesson that YOU should have drawn from the Arab Spring, or the ouster of Marcos in the Philippines years ago, is that the squeaky wheel gets the grease and the people who demand their just rights are the ones that get them. Even if it takes violence to obtain them.

              Americans have many rights under Natures god. One of them IS the right to violent revolution if the voice of the people is not heeded. Read Jefferson and Adams instead of LOU ROCKWALL and you might learn the lessons of an American patriotrather than taking your que from an upper crust Englishman who knows nothing about being an American.

              The NWO has totally brainwashed you as your advice is not only the advice of a coward but the line of propaganda that the GB’s, globalists, and NWO mansion trash would have US believe and except.

              News for you. It ain’t gonna happen that way.

              Americans are armed, that is why America is free and if it takes the blood of Patriots and the blood of globalists on the streets of America to decide the future of America, let it be so.

              Withdrawing your consent from the “corp” and $2.17 cents will get you a medium cup of coffee at Starbucks. Do you want them to leave some room for cream in your coffee while you sit on your hands and collect farts?

            • I agree with Durango, opting out is not a viable option. It accomplishes nothing.

              First, you have to know what your rights are in order to defend them. Then, when they are trampled on, you have to say “NO” and you have to say it loudly and publicly.

              One regular voice from one regular person starts it all. You don’t have to be powerful, or a member of government, or a wealthy famous person. Just be an everyday, average person who has had enough.

            • Opting Out did pretty dang good for the People of India decades ago, just for one.

              Those who favor the Opting Out of nullification did a pretty good job stopping Real ID.

              Opting Out of paying taxes served the smugglers of the Original Thirteen Colonies pretty good too.

              I wouldn’t label any of those groups as ineffective cowards.

              So, it seems your accusations are baseless.

              But you go on ahead and continue pushing the Power Elites desires, you’re good at that.

            • Clark: Now you have revealed your ignorance of History, or is this an attempt to rewrite it and give it a new definition too?

              The people of India did not “opt out”. The people of India engaged their government. They didn’t hide from it. India recieved Independence from Britain through the blood of its people which was shed in a violent display of thuggery by the British.

              Try watching the movie “Ghandi” for a start to understand the amount of Indian blood that was shed for its FREEDOM.

              Its a dramatic account, of course, because its a movie; but it accurately depicts the bloody suffering of the Indian people for their Independence.

              The blood of patriots is the CURRENCY of FREEDOM. It has always been that way and will probably always be that way, at least until Jesus comes.

              There are what, 120, 130 countries in the world today? I am not schooled in the history of each, but as I sit here I can only recall 5 countries (Canada, Australia, New Zealand, Japan, and Germany) who today have representative government that was not won by the blood of their patriots.

              Feel free to name additional countries who won their FREEDOM by “opting out” rather than a violent, bloody struggle.

            • Typical, DK, you refuse to understand what Opting Out means. This is Opting Out, from Wiki: Mohandas Karamchand Gandhi… A pioneer of satyagraha, or resistance to tyranny through mass civil disobedience — a philosophy firmly founded upon ahimsa, or total nonviolence — Gandhi led India to independence and inspired movements for civil rights and freedom across the world.

              … He urged Indians to defy the new law and to suffer the punishments for doing so. The community adopted this plan, and during the ensuing seven-year struggle, thousands of Indians were jailed, flogged, or shot for striking, refusing to register, for burning their registration cards or engaging in other forms of non-violent resistance. The government successfully repressed the Indian protesters, but the public outcry over the harsh treatment of peaceful Indian protesters by the South African government forced South African General Jan Christiaan Smuts to negotiate a compromise with Gandhi…

              Gandhi employed non-cooperation, non-violence and peaceful resistance as his “weapons” in the struggle against the British Raj.

              …Gandhi expanded his non-violence platform to include the swadeshi policy — the boycott of foreign-made goods, especially British goods. Linked to this was his advocacy that khadi (homespun cloth) be worn by all Indians instead of British-made textiles. Gandhi exhorted Indian men and women, rich or poor, to spend time each day spinning khadi in support of the independence movement.[34] Gandhi even invented a small, portable spinning wheel that could be folded into the size of a small typewriter.[35] This was a strategy to inculcate discipline and dedication to weeding out the unwilling and ambitious and to include women in the movement at a time when many thought that such activities were not respectable activities for women. In addition to boycotting British products, Gandhi urged the people to boycott British educational institutions and law courts, to resign from government employment, and to forsake British titles and honours.

              Salt March… This campaign was one of his most successful at upsetting British hold on India;

              …But for his teachings, the efforts of his followers, and his own presence, there would have been much more bloodshed during the partition, according to prominent Norwegian historian, Jens Arup Seip….

              “Christ gave us the goals and Mahatma Gandhi the tactics.” – Martin Luther King Jr, 1955

              That is Opting Out.

            • Clark: That is not “Opting out” that is ENGAGEMENT. As usual you want to redefine the terms to suit your perspective to defend your argument, and spew disinformation, propaganda, and bullshit.

              Try reading the dictionary definition of “opting out” rather than applying the acts of engagement of patriots as an example of “opting out”.

              Wiki didn’t define the action of the Indian People as opting out you did. The bottom line is this:


            • opt out verb : to choose not to participate in something —often used with of – merriam-webster.com

              Many nations ended slavery without the bloodshed of patriots, in England and many other nations, so your foaming at the mouth rant, “THE BLOOD OF PATRIOTS IS THE CURRENCY OF FREEDOM!” has little basis in reality.

            • Opt Out: to choose not to participate in something —often used with of – opted out of the project – merriam-webster.com That’s exactly what they did in India, are you that dense?

        • Probly not the right topic or the right reply but wanted to get everyones attention on this. Media blackout on riots on wall street…please watch video.

        • If you count the people getting SSI, etc, USA is already above 1930s unemployment levels. Practically none of these programs existed before the 1930s depression.

      2. 1. Get your money (if any) from the banks immediately.
        2. Buy some gold coins, food, and defense means.
        3. Prepare an escape plan.
        4. Stay close to family and friends.
        5. Don’t listen to their lies.

        I know that all the above are not fresh news to you all. I live this every day, along with the ridicule from people that i tried to warn.
        “Hi Manos, any new meat cans today?”
        “Good day for a collapse, isn’t it?”
        “If i bring the women, will you bring the food?”

        Today’s news all over Europe talk about a ten year depression. Italy was downgraded by S&P.
        The Turks are about to colide with the Israelis, for Cyprus’ natural gas.
        If all the above ain’t signs, then what is?

        Be safe guys. It’s closer than many people think.

        • Hi Manos,

          I had followed your comments on the other SHTF story of: “Warning For Americans – Be Safe,…”.

          My prayers go out to you and your family,.. and the rest of the people of your country.

          In Greece, like here in the US, your politicans have completely fucked you, your government has completely failed you.

          This apparently now goes for ALL the governments. Your government and mine seem to have no special claim on Treason, Corruption, Stupidity and Failure.

          As for youre comments about preparing,.. you are of course 100% correct. Is is now a 100% certainty that complete systemic failure of our Economic, Financial, Political, and Legal Systems are only a stones throw away now.

          The reason you hear & see comments mocking you is the following:

          There are basically four types of people –

          1) People who are awake, know what is truly going on, spend time talking to knowledgable people, read, and expend efforts on their own research.

          This constitutes about 10% of population (highside figure) by my estimates.

          2) The next group are the ones who just don’t care. Their concern is what is on TV, what is for dinner, and worrying about making ends meet.

          This group seems to constitute about 70% of the people.

          3) Then there is the group that is in firm denial. It doesn’t matter what you say, what you show them, what is physically going on around them. These are the people who would still say the Titanic could, “never sink!” as they are drowning.

          This group is about 15% of the population.

          4) An lastly, you have a group that that has a vested interest in denouncing the coming catastrophy.

          These range all the way from car salesman that want you to Buy!, Buy!, Buy!, to Bankers that want you to Borrow!, Borrow!, Borrow!, to gov’t and corporate stooges that troll sites like this saying people who are paying attention to what is really going on are just plain crazy and should be ignored. (This includes your typical pysch-ops people – People paid by the gov’t just to go on the internet and spread dis-information, dicredit people trying to warn others, and trying to shape opinion as gov’t wants people to have)

          This constitutes about 5% of the population.

          So you see, the simple fact is, the simple majority of people just really want to bury their head in the sand because they believe in some way, shape or form, that if they ignore the problem,.. it goes away on it own.

          Problem: The coming crisis is NOT going to go away on its own. In fact it is easy to say with little-to-no-risk to my own credibility, that from this day on, it is going to slowly deterioate just little more each day, and just keep getting a little worse,.. a little worse,… a little worse,.. and then BAM! The day of rapid decay and panic. That is the offical beginning of the collapse.

          So Mano’s,… you keep doing what your doing. Your understanding of the dangers are correct my friend, and your desire to be as prepared as you can are also correct.

          I am doing the same for me and my family.

          Good luck to you,… your family,…. your friends and neigbors,… and of course, to your country.

          Take care my friend,

          JD – US Marines – Defenders Of The US Constitution.

          • US Marines

            Thanks, your wishes and encouragement is so much needed these days.
            My biggest concern is my family. My worst fear is a potential war with Turkey. We will have to fight side by side with the Cypriots and the Israelis.
            I was drafted for 23 months, and after dissmisal i am a reservist. I will have to go no matter what.
            But my wife is informed about preps, knows how to handle ny shotgun, and she will shut down the hatches.
            What an interesting times indeed.

            • Manos – you are wise to be concerned about Turkey.. most here pay little attention to such things; but I do. We could be days, weeks or months from a major war; but I think it is coming.

              When people joke about your preps, for instance, asking if you have added any new cans.. I would strongly suggest replying “no, we had to eat it all” or something close. You really do not want people to know that you have a stock of food.. it makes you a guarenteed target.
              I would be especially concerned about those that say “i’ll bring the women, you bring the food”. It sounds like a joke; but it IS NOT. It means that you are right up front in their minds with a label which says “shopping center”. As much as you can, play down your preps..

            • Sam not sam,

              The few people i have talked about preps, are close friends and a couple of neighbors.
              i thought it would be wise to create bonds of trust with them, in order to cover each others butts. But it proved to be a wrong action. They prefer to live in the world of “dancing with the stars”, in the world of playstation, and in the world of Sunday’s soccer.
              The only people who trusted my instinct and sources (shtf plan), are my father and my daughter’s godfather.
              My father is a close companion in many stuff, and especially at the shooting club.
              The other guy was also a self-taught prepper. Now i’m happy to rely to those two, and i don’t give a damn about the others.
              Although it’s cruel to listen to shity comments.

              Be safe and protect your beloved ones.

            • Fight with Israelis? Against a NATO member? You sound like another brainwashed joo boot licker. Maybe it’s best you be cannon fodder.

            • Anonymus,

              Yes i will fight against a NATO member if my military leadership decides to do so.
              Alliances and allies change over time depending on the new geopolitical data.
              Turkey as a NATO member, means nothing to me. If i need to protect my nation, i will do this against “foreign or domestic enemies”.
              To be honest anonymus, i don’t have anything against the Turkish nation. Turks are good people, hard working, and ethical. But this has to do with the plain people like you and me. The governments are responsible for all the shit around the globe, and unfortunately they take decisions for our lives.
              So yes, i will fight to protect my family and home, even if this means that i must turn against my dad, or my cousins.

              Be safe man.

          • Marines…I always enjoy your takes. Usually, you are spot on but I do not believe that 10% of the population is fully awake. I have to respectfully disagree. If this were so, there would be massive change. There have been studies on this proving that 10% of a population can sway the other 90%. I would say it is closer to 3-4%, if even that. Cognitave dissonance is a bitch for most people.

            • I have been thinking about this and I think we are extremely lucky if it is 2-3%

            • I believe the number of people that are aware is much higher. Much, much, higher. Maybe 50-60%. Many of these people who are aware are people in power and on the fringe of power.

              You would all be surprised to know who some of the people are who read sites like these. And I mean other than the DHS Cyber Squad which is paid to monitor sites like these.

              The Retard Republicans in Congress would block any plan that Obummer could come up with to make things better … and he can’t; he is a worthless twit. The plan he is pushing now is the plan he should have pushed after his election when he had control of Congress.

              He doubled down the on the stupidity of Bush instead and magnified that by his own incompetence.

              He IS incredibly incompetent and he has also been set up by the LSM and the global fascists who will sweep the board in 2012 and finish off the American middle class.

              Ron Paul has been totally ignored by the LSM.

              Free Trade must be rejected by Americans if America is to ever recover. This is the CAUSE of our demise. The GB’s ARE the enemy. The Dual Citizens in OUR government IS the enemy. The LSM IS the enemy.

              Identify OUR enemies and identify your targets. Vote!

            • GC,

              I agree with US Marines. I didn’t think it was that hi either but I have been talkking to a lot of people lately and there are more awake than I would have ever believed. Even my bosses wife was wide awake, and I didn’t think she was capable of sleep walking let alone walking alone. Many of my old army buddies (I see Marines as brothers as well) are more awake than I would have ever thought. I have several neighbors who have been ‘jokingly’ discussing how to fortify the street in case of civil unrest, and this was not at my prompting.

              I think US Marines is probably closer than we would have thought six months ago, but 10% is not that far off. Unfortunately, I think the % of people that are actually prepared is closer to your 3-4%

            • I’m gonna agree here—there are 27,000 in my county–do I think 2700 are prepping?

              No–do I think 270 are prepping–no—
              Just me and the girl at the Natural Health store who sold me the bay leaf to put in my buckets; she lives on a farm…gee–that’s two!!!

            • DK, wrote, “Free Trade must be rejected by Americans if America is to ever recover.”

              Do you ever learn?

              Free trade is the saving grace of us all, it’s mercantilism that must be rejected.

              Talk about Orwellian Double Speak, yeesh.

            • I think your VERY high in your estimate, I’ve heard many poeple on the silver/gold channels say that less than 1% of the population hold any physical silver or gold beyond their jewery.

            • NO Clark, YOU never learn. There is no such thing as FREE TRADE It doesn’t exist. It is propaganda. It is managed trade. It is NAFTA. It is GATT. It is a euphanism to sell Americans a FREEDOM that doesn’t exist.

              All trade between nations is managed trade and it is managed to the benefit of the GB’s. the GB’s use FREE TRADE as a siphon to drain American wealth.

              It is the Great Conspiracy between the globalists in government, the GB’s, and the Chinese Communist Party that has caused the demise of the American economy.

              Tell me again, Clark, how your “free trade’ utopia benefited the American Indian, for example; especially when they allowed Europeans to establish “free trade zones” upon their continent populated by Europeans.

              Where are the Indians now? How many factories do they have? How many jobs do they have? How much wealth do they possess as a national group?

              All trade is managed trade. Your “garage sale free trading” philosophy is the idea of a idealistic economic philosopher who is as dead as Keynes.

              And you are STILL a fucking idiot. I get richer as the GB’s impose more Free Trade upon America as the middle class is financially raped and the dollar declines in purchasing power.

              How is “free trade’ working for you?

              When the next round of free trade agreements with Latin America are approved, even more American jobs will be lost; which is why there is a “provision for training” within this legislation for those American workers displaced by additional factories transferred offshore; production and jobs that will never again circulate within the American economy and bolster it GDP.

              Dump LOU ROCKWALL. Lew is a fucking shill for the globalists disguised as a Libertarian. he preaches individual liberty on Russia Today of all places, yet aggressively sells “FREE TRADE” (which WE know doesn’t exist) as a freedom to anyone that will listen to the propaganda.

              That is the intent of the NWO Globalists: to get Americans to accept FREE TRADE as a FREEDOM, because they LOVE freedom; when it is an economic system designed by the NWO to make them economic serfs. YOU will be one of those economic serfs.

              I own a gold mine. Check Dylan Ratigan dot com for more info.

            • Hi God’s Cremation,

              The 10% figure I quoted was my “Hopeful Expectation” high side number.

              In reality, having spoken with vendors of all sorts for the last several months, local suppliers and reviewing news articles, and sites like this, etc, etc, my estimates consistently show that only about 2% are awake.

              I do expect that there are some “silent” prepers and well informed, but even if you allow for those, it still won’t amount to a full 3%, just as you stated.

              I was presenting numbers that were intended just to give the reader a feel for the general breakdown. I do not have any exact data base that would permit me to define anything more accurate.

              In either case, we know its sadly a small number of people that are awake in this country. Cognative Dissonance becomes a very intractable part of peoples pyschy when they live a fairly good life and don’t want the ride to end. (If I don’t acknowledge the problems,… they’ll just GO AWAY!!!,…(fingers in the ears) LALAlalalalala,.. I don’t hear annnnyyytthhhiiiinngggg,…lalalalalalalalalala…)

              You have probably had the same experience I have had, which is even when you walk people through the explanation of what is coming, and why, what do they do?, for me, my experience is people don’t want to hear about it, and simply shut down mentally.

              Out of the 200 to 300 people I have tried to warn, and gave them the basic tools and web sites where they can verify this stuff for themselves, I don’t think I gotten through to more than 3 people. Certainly not an encouraging number.

              So in response to your comments,.. I actually completely agree with your observations,… sadly.

              I do wish we were both wrong & the number of people awake was much higher,… but I just know that at this time, it isn’t.

              Thanks – JD – US Marines

            • DK, you are seriously whacked to say, “Lew is a fucking shill for the globalists disguised as a Libertarian.” That is So the opposite of the truth.

              Free Trade is Not NAFTA or GATT, get that through your thick skull, will ya.

              All trade between nations is Not managed trade.

              Free trade benefited the American Indians quite well, it was the merger of business and goberment that was to their detriment,… same as it is today.

              The merger of goberment and business is something you push constantly.

              Also, who the heck cares what you got? It’s irrelevant.

          • JD, thanks for your service to our country. I myself served 8 years in the Navy as a Nuclear Operator (if the lights go out, I glow. Grin) I agree with what you said here, except I think your numbers of people prepared are more like 3 percent. I would say about 20 percent have a vague idea that something is going on, but choose to rail about it and yet do nothing to protect themsleves and their family. My daughter, granddaughter and soninlaw had to move in with me at the beginning of the year, and thank God they are with me in this. It is kind of cool when the three of us sit down and talk about this stuff, or we all go out shooting together. Everything I do in preps is for them. I am confident of where I am going after this life is done, so dieing doesnt scare me one bit. My family suffering is another thing.
            Manos, my prayers are with you Brother. Be strong, keep God in your heart, and enjoy what we have while we have it.
            It is going to get a lot worse before it gets better. Keep your head down and after the chaos subsides and if we are still here, maybe we will be able to create a better world. I just hope future generations remember there are two nasty career choices in this world that need to be removed, politicians and lawyers.

            • @Jim
              MM2 nuke myself, 6 years. Nice to see other nukes preparing and getting things in order. Good luck and kypd.
              M div USS Carl Vinson CVN 70 93-97

            • Hi Navy,

              Anchors Away!

              I see you did a little time yourself,..8 years!

              Welcome home.

              AS for the numbers I presented, I had responed to Gods Cremation, above, where I know I was being “optimistic” with 10% figure, but then again, I wasn’t trying to convey any exact numbers,.. which is a good thing because I don’t have any, rather, I was just trying to give a feel for the general breakdown. The idea being,…. most people are still asleep, few are awake and preparing, and a few will never believe the truth, no matter what, and a few are simply spreading lies and disinformation.

              Glad to see your circling the wagons with family. You be able to take turns with sentry duty, which sounds like a joke right now,… but it could actually get that bad. This is what people don’t seem to want to understand.

              And, as you noted, we don’t live for ourselves, we want the best for kids, and so we prepare with them in mind more than ourselves, which is what manos had written to me in one of his replies.

              As a former Nuclear Tech, I know you have a solid foundation in math, and I,m sure you have been looking at all the numbers related to the economy and keep coming to the same conclusion,…. this economy, our financial system, everything about this country is about to go through upheaveals and changes, the likes of which neither one of us had even contemplated just 5 years ago, and none of it for the better.

              Its sad to see such a great country get destroyed by traitors in our own gov’t and military,… but there is nothing new in that either as any history buff knows.

              All the same, I weep for our kids future that has been stolen.

              I wish you and your family the best luck in the coming tribulations.

              Just out of curiosity, I’m in central NJ (near Old Bridge), are you anywhere near me?

              Thanks Navy,

              JD – US Marines

            • Thanks Jim,

              I also served in the Navy for 23 months. Anti-aircraft gunner, for Rheinmetall batteries.

              Be safe Jim.

            • Hi All.
              MM2Nuke, I was a MM1 Nuke, but a fake one as I was a rad tech. I agree, it is good to see another one of us who live in the real world and not just a bookworm. Most of them were. I was on the Teddy Ruxpin 4 5 years. 88-93
              US Marines, I live in the Great White North in Michigan. Sorry we are so far apart, keep safe in NJ.
              Manos, keep safe brother.
              Be safe all, because I think we might get lucky to finish this year out before it hits the fan

          • I think your numbers are off. I bring this up because it matters. There are, IMO, <1% in your awake category. That might be on the high side. This would mean that there are ~3million folks in the US that are awake. That sounds high to me if anything.

            I would add another 10-20% that know something bad is coming but are too busy with "other things", "real life", etc to actively prep. Thank God for that too as Mountain House DOES NOT have the capacity to feed that many.

            Gold and silver are great but food, ammo and WATER PURIFICATION are going to be at such a premium that they will likely be traded for blood at some point.

            (as always, I hope I am wrong and I will publicly eat crow with my stale MREs in 20 years if nothing happens). Be well friends, especially Manos.

        • Manos, thanks as always for your perspective. You are at Economic Collapse Ground Zero… like the US unemployment video i pasted a few posts down, this contagion is going to spread around the world.

          “Today’s news all over Europe talk about a ten year depression.” — right now in the US they are talking about a double dip, but “depression” is creeping into the great consciousness and will soon be the talk of water coolers the country over.

          I am generally an optimistic person, but i really can’t see a positive result coming from all of this.

          Best wishes,


          • hey mac, an iteresting project would be a timeline of the events leading up to our current situation and future events. who knows what patterns would appear, and it’d be usefful to prevent future catasprohies. just my $0.02..

            • This would definitely be a good topic and one that could take some time to really put together, because the causes and consequences go back for decades… For those interested, check out the writings of Martin Armstrong, who has done a lot of historical research as it pertains to economic confidence cycles…some of his work dates back to well before Christ… I think you’ll see a lot of similarities throughout history, especially when it comes to units of exchange, devaluation and collapse of empires, as well as the deterioration of the rule of law, namely with regards to property rights.

          • You are a generally optimistic person. LOL!!!!!
            You are a sick self hating Jew, Mac. Please don’t stop taking your anti depressant medication because it is causing you to make your ridiculous “I am generally an optimistic person” statement. No sir, you are a obsessive compulsive doom and gloomer asshole and your bullshit is bringing out all the wannabe racist Nazi pigs on this crap blog so you can sell your overpriced prep supplies.
            Get a real job Mac. PS, your disclaimer proves that you are full of shit.

            • Fred,
              What, exactly, is your major malfunction? You talk about shit, listen to yourself. You are a nasty, hateful zionist and you should be ashamed of yourself, and tell us fredrick, what exactly is it that you do?

        • You need to have a year’s supply of food and water and a way to heat your home and cook your food without electricity.

          You only stick close to those people who have prepared the same way that you have. Not unless you have a year of supplies for them too. I don’t want anyone I care about to suffer but I can’t house and feed everyone.

          Here’s a place to find night vision goggles if you don’t have them already:


          • PVS-14, third generation night vision. $2895.00 @ JRH Enterpises. Can be hand held, head/helmet mount, or lined up with your aimpoint T-1 or Eotech 557.

      3. Governments are the problem. The smaller the government, the smaller the problem.

        • 🙂 Yep!

        • I would agree to a point.

          Would you say: “No government, No problem?”

          • No. We need some guv. But smaller is better.

      4. First of all this is a nonsense article because the economic problems are sporadic and regional only . Until these problems are in every region of the country you cannot cry collapse .

        • Rich, see video below… I’m not sure we can call it sporadic or regional only 🙂

          Link to vid

          • Damn, that is crazy. It looks like a virus infecting its host.

            • It is a virus infecting it’s host…well, a parasite anyway. It is called Liberalism, Socialism and Progressivism…and we all know that any parasite, if left untreated will eventually kill its’ host.

            • I’ve often thought that government is like a cancer virus.

            • Socialism is a symptom. The virus is the global fascism of the GB’s that is pushing FREE TRADE.

              It is FREE TRADE that has destroyed America, because it has transferred the means of production offshore and is designed to the drain the wealth of the middle class.

            • Are you for real, DK?

              Mercantilism and corporate state cronyism is the problem, Not free trade.

              Get a clue already.

              When you write, “It is FREE TRADE that has destroyed America, because it has transferred the means of production offshore and is designed to the drain the wealth of the middle class.”
              … What you’re describing is Mercantilism and corporate state cronyism.

          • Great vid!

            • Clark: Exactly!!! Now you are getting a fucking clue! The “FREE TRADE” of the GB’s is the crony capitalism you mention. FREE TRADE doesn’t exist. It never has. Never. Except for the American Indians.

              Please give me an example of the existence of FREE TRADE since the Roman Empire 2000 years ago where FREE TRADE existed and the people prospered from it.

              China is the ‘mercantilist”. It imposes a 25% import tax upon all US manufactured products. It manipulates its currency by 20-25%. This is the FREE TRADE of the GB’s.

              We have a $300 billion trade deficit with China under these mercantilist policies which define FREE TRADE. And that is the tip of the iceberg.

              Check with Dyan Ratigan. He has a clue. LOU ROCKWALL is a fucking shill for the NWO. Be sure to tell the lying sonabitch I said so!!!!!

            • DK, I’ve given you links to many many examples of the existence of FREE TRADE, both many decades ago and today, all quite beneficial to those involved.

              It’s too bad you ignored those posts and still confuse Free Trade with mercantilism and corporate state cronyism.

              You really should stop going on about China after I showed you how they make up an insignificant portion trade with the unitedstate.

              Also, … you’re weird and quite disrespectful.

            • Free or Fair?

              “Who might protest that my trade with the Lexus manufacturer was unfair? If you said an American car manufacturer and their union workers, go to the head of the class. They would like Congress to restrict foreign trade so that they can sell their cars at a pleasing price and their workers earn a pleasing wage. As a matter of fact, it’s never American consumers who complain about cheaper prices. It’s always American producers and their unions who do the complaining. That ought to tell us something.”


            • Clark: $300 billion dollars is not insignificant. Are you saying $300 billion is insignificant? LMAO! 🙂

              That’s $300 billion EVERY YEAR! And it is only the TIP of the iceberg.

              And NO Clark you have not given me any examples of any people who have prospered from FREE TRADE. NONE! Com’on name them for all of US …..

              We’re waiting Clark …..

          • How ironic because my area doesn’t have a high unemployment rate nor is it depressed in any way so this video is used as a propaganda tool.

            • Rich, there is no unemployment in the area where I live either, but I can drive 30 miles in any dirrection from here and see the home forclosurs, the unemployed, the empty stores ect, I wasn’t around in the 30s but was here in the forties and there were places back then that didn’t even know America was in a depression.My folks knew we were in a depression but it didn’t really affect us at all as it didn’t affect many dairy farmers. We had everything that we needed on the farm except some coffee,sugar.

            • Sorry bud, not buying it. Your not looking. I allwys “feel” like we don’t have a problem but my wifes job deals with the unemployed and she now deals with folks that have had a job all thier adult life more often then the never had one that made up her case load prior to 2009. Most people who have always worked won’t let you know that they are out of work, even long term, because they are embarrassed by it.


            • RICH wrote, “How ironic because my area doesn’t have a high unemployment rate nor is it depressed in any way”

              Even La Jolla, California is having problems, or perhaps you meant everyone in your area is on Prozac so they’re not depressed in any way?

              Have you ever heard of thehousingbubbleblog.com ??? I mean, just one glance and you’ll get the idea.

          • Interesting how that one little strip smack dab in the center of the country stayed light. If I had my way, South Dakota (in the light strip) is where I’d like to be. 🙂

            • I live in the light strip in Nebraska, jobs are drying up, none pay the greatest. I just finished college and can only find work as a warehouse manager for a sporting goods chain. People out here are about 70% sheep, but the older generation is preparing for meltdown. Gun and ammunition sales are higher than ever and camping gear is out of stock a lot. We are better off than most but the effects are being felt. About 20% of the homes are for sale or in foreclosure. It will be bad for the larger areas but in the rural communities they pull together and help each other out. Luck all

            • had a house on the market in that little strip called Nebraska, home of Warren Buffett…from June 2006 till 2010…like a good little trooper…kept paying the mortgage all the while I was on the coast..was fired for blowing the whistle for corruption at the college I worked at…corruption still going on, politicians, do not change, moneys exchanged, property exchanged, new building contracts awarded to cronies, etc..you all know the drill… It was the awe shucks good Christian mid west values guy that screwed me…he did get a little of Karma bite him on the ass, and I was vindicated after 5 years, still lost all my savings, retirement, everything, but still all in all was glad to get away…now live on the west coast in a little berg on the south Oregon coast…low mortgage, almost paid off, nice little boat, enough preps and game, fish, etc to keep our little tribe safe…neighborhood is dirt poor yet all work, and we have each others backs. they are so used to being in a depression…nothing improved for years after the collapse of the lumber industry…we all more or less have a somewhat insulated community…lots of private businesses, lots of self sufficient folks. While some are still sheeples, I am glad we are here and not in the land of flat land,snow plows,insurance crooks and money grubbing banksters.

        • Rich, if everything is nonsense to you, why bother reading anything on this sight? Do you believe the economic collapse is like global warming?
          You haven’t traveled much or if any and you probably don’t believe the story of Noah.
          Preppare for the worst and pray the best.

          • What Inflation Means to You

            “The one thing we can be certain about is this: An increase in inflation will have a painful effect on lower income households, those on fixed incomes, those with higher ratios of transportation costs, and any household whose discretionary spending is more dream than reality.”


            Plus, there’s a whole lot of “spillover” of all sorts to affect everyone else. Inflation is Not nothing.

            It seems groups 2. and 3. US Marines described above will be affected more and more as time rolls on.

            • You are correct for once Clark, at least about inflation, but inflation is not the worry now. The worry now is about DE-flation and a glabal downward spiral that would be as bad as, or worse than hyper-inflation.

              The next six months will tell the tale and set OUR course for the next six years.

            • Yes, Ben Bernake, Central Bankers and their friends are worried about deflation. … everyone else would welcome lower prices, that’s a good thing and not at all bad. But, the Ben Bernak isn’t going to let deflation happen.

              My point was more about how inflation is more than what bankers and their friends make it out to be, they claim it’s “nothing”. Oh, wait, DK said that too. Hmmm.

              Inflation is a terrible thing, contrary to what some People say, and say, and say. You know the types, banker types, mortgage brokers, the ones who smile while they rip you off or help others rip you off.

            • Inflation is a terrible thing for you Clark because you have no assets. Ask the homeowners in America what they think about “lower prices”. And I am not talking about lower prices I am talking about a downward spiral that would turn the world upside down.

              If you were smart you would use the double digit inflation or even the hyper-inflation that you believe is coming to borrow your ass off and pay the money back with “worthless dollars”!

              Personally, it doesn’t matter to me Clark. I got MINE. It doesn’t matter whether WE have inflation or deflation because I got mine and NO leverage.

          • I hate to bust your doom bubble but this kind of stuff happens in any recession EXCEPT this is a much deeper recession / retraction ! This is not a collapse . So all you armchair quarterbacks know so much and I’m wrong then tell me when the ship finally goes down and if you can’t tell me then don’t tell Me I’m wrong cuz obviously you don’t know what’s going to happen either .

        • ATTENTION:



          Rich, IF you truly believe what you say,… then just go back to your American Idol, your Wii, and stuffing your face with “low fat” ice cream.

          It serves no legitimate purpose to for anyone to try and dissuade people from being prepared, so CLEARLY you have alterior motives that are contrary to well being of those on this site concerned about the Clear & Present Danger to our stability, security and future well being, otherwise, why would you give a rats ass as to how we expend OUR personal energy, time and money NOT YOURS! Its none of your fuck’n business.

          Do EVERYONE a favor, and just…. go away.

          Closing Note To Concerned Citizens:

          If Rich posts any more of his nonsense,… please, just completely ignore him,… he’s an idiot.

          Thank you – JD – US Marines – Concerned For My Country.

          • Agreed! Don’t feed the trolls!

            • Does that include me Daisy? Rich has made some good points over time and at this juncture a “collapse” is not a certainty. Things could be turned around.

              If WE can make it to the next election WE have hope.

            • Never you, Durango. You always disagree politely! 😉

          • spot on, mate!

          • The reason I care is because I was in your boat until I role up to the doom and gloom profit lies !!! You Mr. Marine seems to fuckin know it all then you tell Mr what when and how its going down and if you can’t then SHUT YOUR MOUTH because you obviously have no idea what ACTUALLY will happen ! And you can’t argue my point either !

            • You needto go away

            • I knew something was coming 15 years ago. Had a gun safe full of gold and silver that I bought for about $400 and $5 respectively. Since gold went down to $250 around 2000 and nothing seemed to be too awful bad I didn’t feel so bad losing it because of an unfaithful wife and her alcoholic boyfriend. I couldn’t travel since I was Mr. Mom therefore my earnings went to hell. What I had saved up got the kid thru school in the house he grew up in and kept the other kids afloat thru school.

              Well, once all that was done 2008 hit and I recognized it as the beginning of the great unraveling of the derivatives market. The goobermint / Fed manage to keep pulling rabbits out of their asses and surprising me but it cannot last forever. Who knows “when” TSHT ? No one old buddy, no one. But we do know that IS going to happen. Be patient, your life will turn to shit soon enough. No need to rush it.

          • +1

        • Rich I wish you would stay off this site, you are nothing but a troll!!!!!!

          • Hi Rich,

            THANK YOU!

            I could NOT have proven my point about you any better than you JUST DID for me!

            Now that burped your objection, you can go back to your intellectually challanging episode of Jerry Springer.

            (Actually you can go tell your CIA, or FBI, or whatever gov’t agency you may work for, that you have “been made”.)

            JD – US Marines – The toughest “trolls” this country has ever seen.

        • Rich, put in a request to get your money back for your education.

        • Rich is either obama or napolitano. Two losers in total denial. Take your pick.

        • @RICH
          It doesn’t have to be instant Mad Max or some silly ass zombie movie scene for a collapse or major world disruption to happen. Look at a history book or google up a little incident in the Balkans involving the assination of a minor noble of an obscure little nation that within 6 months caused WW1 and subsequently WW2 from the fallout of the first war.
          You sir, should spend less time throwing stones and more time learning history and causal analysis. It may make you a better person, or maybe not.

        • Rich, I think we are in for a long hard ride in the coming years, and I may be a pessimist, but I think smart people better get ready to defend themselves and their family for a challenging decade.

          I am not the smartest guy in the room, but I can also see we are being treated like sheep by the mass media and the Gov’t.

          The greedy Wall Street bankers and politicians are robbing us, and our kids of their future opportunity by raiding the treasury right in front of our eyes, and we cheer them on.

          Recently my sister in law and I got into a discussion, after she read an article I had forwarded to my brother on “being prepared for an uncertain future”

          Rich, you believe that our prepping is a bit of an “overreaction” and people are playing on our fears:

          Well, this is where I am at.

          You certainly could be right, and when times are scary, people do prey on our fears.

          But the fears of being thought of as a freak, weird, or an extremist I think, allow many people to bury their heads in the sand and avoid even the most basic preparedness.

          I don’t say go out and build a bunker and spend 50K getting prepared for the apocalypse, unless you want to, but if there is a short term interruption of goods and services due to economic, medical, or whether related events, I would rather be prepared than panic.

          I look at it as Insurance, I have life, health, homeowners, auto, boat, camper, short and long term disability, and an umbrella policy to “Protect” my family, and how much am I spending a year on that, quite a bit.

          I buy it “hoping” I will never need it, but wouldn’t go without it.

          I see the basic long term planning for potentially difficult times as a similar investment. All you need to do is look at history to see the kind of hardships unprepared people face in tough times. Can it happen again? Maybe, maybe not.

          Below are 2 main stream links “The American Red Cross”, and the “Department of Homeland Security”. When I look at the basic items they say “people” should have available, I bet 98% of your friends and neighbors don’t.



          The fact that most people don’t have the basic skills to be self sufficient, let alone the items, or knowledge of where to get the items they need.

          If and when a crisis happens, and it will…..Most people will find them in a desperate position standing on someone else’s doorstep or in the street begging for help.

          I think it is a discussion that every family in America should have, then pray or meditate, if God is not your thing, and act accordingly to what your heart & head say you should and can do.

          Being self sufficient is being an optimist. Not merely because I think I will make it through the crisis, but because of the (possibly subconscious) hope that something good will emerge in the aftermath.

          My modest preparation springs from the knowledge that I am the protector of my family. It is on me to do what I reasonably can do to protect my family from in the event of hardship and/or disaster. (After watching [Hurricane] Katrina, it seems apparent that the government cannot do that.)

          Any reasonable person knows that there is at least a fathomable chance that our nation’s run of blessing/luck will end (or be suspended) at some point in the future.

          Nothing lasts forever. If and when that time comes, I would never forgive myself if my family suffered unnecessarily because I did not take reasonable steps to prepare for such a time.

          In addition to that, I think it’s just plain fun to learn about this stuff.

          I prepare because I’m a libertarian with conservative tendencies, at times feeling like an endangered species or “minority” and I’m tenaciously defiant to those who would like to see my “kind” exterminated.

          I am equipped with a few trusted friends that are peers in regard to my views and they have begun to prepare also. I discern a negative force is taking action to see my country’s sovereignty given away.

          I am “HIGHLY” motivated to be a hindrance to that spirit.

          I prepare because I awoke to how fragile our economy really is and saw how foolishly I’d been behaving in the past (assuming life would always be normal) and am in the process of repenting of any residual foolish, attitudes and habits I have.

          I prepare because if things ever happen, I will have multiple skill sets that can help a number of people in a number of different situations. I believe I was created to help people, when possible; I gather info, educate, discuss and leave food for thought for those who are unprepared, but willing to listen and consider my views on the subject.

          Why am I preparing? For the simple reason that I live in the middle of the mid-west. Bad winters, heavy snow, and ice storms. The rest of the year heavy rains, floods, tornados, et cetera.

          You can’t depend on the government to come through when needed, so if you don’t have what you need than you are out of luck!

          You have to be able to get by on what you have or fabricate something to do the job needed.

          I have NEVER depended on the government to help me with my life, and I really don’t think they have the capacity.

          It will be you and friends and neighbors pulling together that will make the difference.

          I prepare for me and mine so that we may be able to help others if need be.

          Why do I prepare? Probably because I read too much survival type stuff.

          Because surviving to me is so much more interesting than succumbing.

          I always assumed something, a war, or a pandemic, could change life as I knew it, and it never occurred to me not to want to survive.

          Bottom line:

          I owe it to my family to be prepared. I could not bear to look into their eyes as they look to me for help and have to say “Sorry.”

          I prep, not because I’m smarter than anyone else, but because from what I see, there just is no other choice.

          I do it for my family; my beloved wife who humors me but thinks I’m slightly nuts, my children who love me but roll their eyes whenever I speak about what is happening around us.

          Look, I don’t have any college degree or any “fancy book smarts”; no one would call me well educated or all that bright. But I can see what I can see.

          I read, study, research, and from my angle, I believe we are going to be challenged big time in the not so distant future, so I plod on.

          I don’t have a retreat, I don’t have a bunker or fallout shelter, I do have a few acres (40) some solar panels, a small green house, weapons & ammo, medical supplies, some extra food, fuel, tools, seeds, a stocked pond and some really cool ducks, chickens and a few milk goats. I keep on doing the best with what I have, what I know, and what I can afford.

          Will we survive whatever that comes? Heck if I know. But I’m a damn fool if I do not give it my best shot.

          As I get older and wiser, I believe all our days are numbered and have value. In those number of days I believe we are to protect and provide for our own selves, our families and so on.

          Examples in history are numerous how people were commanded to defend their homes, their cities, their neighbors, and their land.

          Unless we (like some were) are destined to go into Babylonian captivity I see no other choice.

          I am taking what steps I feel necessary to survive in a societal collapse of infrastructure because I realize that the more intricate a system of living becomes, the more possible facets of failure are therefore created.

          As the machine known as Society has grown in scale and complexity, so do the required aspects of its function; increasing the number of things that can go wrong, thus eventually causing a critical failure of the system. In the army we called S.N.A.F.U.

          With the statistical (and historical) inevitability staring one in the face, how can someone NOT do everything within your power to be prepared?

          While I had read about survival-ism and planning for a couple of years starting with Y2K, the importance of having some sort of plan didn’t hit me hard until [Hurricane] Katrina hit. All of a sudden the importance of having a plan & supplies is very important

          I’m preparing for my wife and my children, because I can, and because it gives me a feeling of confidence. I say “because I can” since most of my acquaintances don’t have a clue of the probable upcoming changes in society, but of those that do have a clue, well they can’t prepare.

          They can’t prepare for because they’re financially tapped out by having been brainwashed into living on credit today figuring somebody else will take care of them tomorrow, but it won’t be me and mine, and it’s not that I wouldn’t help anybody, but I don’t want all our acquaintances coming to live with us.

          I have a good life and am blessed to be able to make preparations for what may come. And I am thankful for every additional day I have to get better prepared, and, for the most part, my beautiful wife is a supporter of me and is on board.

          I am preparing because I believe the threats to our way of life are at hand. We are in a global war with extremists that want us to die in the name of Allah.

          China strength’s grows, our borders are not protected. Our government is shredding the constitution and spending us into a financial position we will not be able to sustain.

          Natural disasters, environmental concerns (see BP and the Gulf), the basic depravity and selfishness of man–is reason enough.

          Many other equivalent societies in this century have fallen, why is America better? It is inevitable; one disaster will prove the wisdom of preparing.

          1. Life is worth living.
          2. I want to be around if there is any defending of this nation to be done.

          It’s something that was raised in me. Maybe it is the Boy Scout’s motto of always being prepared or just the human instinct of survival, I see something on the horizon, but I won’t back down.

          Not to mention I get to justify spending money on my home & the sanctuary I love.

          I am trying to prepare because it is the right and responsible thing to do for our family, friends, neighbors, and country. If we all became part of the solution, then there would be no problem.

          It is obvious that our complex society is too interdependent to survive major interruptions and we have numerous examples to look at (the L.A. riots, Hurricane Katrina, and such).

          To believe that a major interruption of services could not occur is delusional. The empirical evidence is right in front of us.

          The family which is prepared has far fewer worries.

          Do I believe we are headed for the end of the world as we know it? Not particularly. Do I believe that we will see significant disruptions that will affect us for 10 days or so? Yes.

          Disruptions lasting to 30 days or beyond? Less likely, but I plan for that nonetheless. Our leaders have constantly cajoled us to have a supply of food and other necessities (see the above links) and my guess is they know something we haven’t heard yet.

          Most pundits state that human beings are constantly evolving. The point they have ignored or can’t see is that the evolvement of the human race in the last 50 years has been deterioration, not advancement.

          I prepare because I see it as part of the natural cycle of human civilization. Something in us wants to forget the lessons of what makes us a great society and start living on borrowed riches and capabilities.

          Eventually, that living beyond our means catches up with us via a natural disaster, economic collapse or societal conflict.

          If we were not to prepare then we are doomed to fail and live miserably under the dictates of someone else.

          If we prepare we are not guaranteed to have prepared for the right situation, or enough, but at least we have a much better than average chance.

          In the end, I am an optimist. No matter how bad things get they will eventually get better.

          We can speed up our own recovery and that of our community’s by preparing now.

          If we do not, then we may end up wallowing in misery and struggling for the barest necessities.

          It just takes discipline and short-term sacrifice.

          Hey, we may all look back in 10-20 years and have a good laugh over a couple of thousand dollars spent on stuff we never needed, but it is going to be very a sad day if we have to look our friends and neighbors in the face and say…

          Sorry, I can’t help you, you should have prepared!

          • Long but very well said.

            • Sorry……
              It’s hard to sum up a prepper philosophy in a few words.
              I hope Rich reads it and will re-think his knee jerk reactions and harsh words to the folks who just are looking for a forum to find like minded souls.

              I wonder if maybe I am “Crazy” and “Paranoid” sometimes also, so I try to keep the passion and actions both mental and physical in check and in balance.

              I think the word I like best is “BALANCE”.

              In my humble opinion, I believe anything in excess (religion, drinking, smoking, sex, and even prepping) can be harmful if it starts to consume your life.

              In the end, I gave up a long time ago trying to convince anyone to believe what I do, I just keep being me and I am ok with that.

              Peace to all…Find it wherever you can.

          • BRAVO BRAVO!!!! Well said!!!

            • Thanks!!

          • I do the same for my kids & grandchildren and for the same reasons. You sound like the neighbor is wish I had.

            Much respect,

            • Keep Safe! Love those Kids….Mine are the main reason(s) I do what I do!!

        • will do, thanks for the link.

          • What the heck is this thing ? Did you guys LOOK at some of the questions ? What POSSIBLE reason ( this is a rhetorical question ) could they have for asking if there was a 1 ton vehicle on the property ????

            Personally, I don’t think that this “survey” is part of the constitutional mandate for a census.. the questions are BEYOND intrusive..

            • Sam not sam:

              Glad I got your attention!!!

              Everyone, (everyone)… on this site needs to give this a good look over. They will be shocked and enraged at the same time.

              “We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid.”
              Benjamin Franklin-

            • NOTE to ALL – they also ask about whether you’ve raised any food on your land..

              IMHO – unless the documents are delivered by registered mail, signature required; there is no proof that the document was even sent, much less received. I would act accordingly.. never got it, never saw it, don’t know what the heck your talking about.

              Side note.. Several questions deal with whether or not you speak English.. one question has amoung the possible answers, “I speak no English”. Since the form is in English… DUH….

        • I have received one of these things, says i’m required by law to fill it out. Wife just wants to do it so we won’t get in trouble. I’d like to wipe my ass with it and mail it back.

          • Did you receive this recently ? I would suggest contacting some local / regional / national talk shows etc. Get a buzz up..

            • My parents got one of these (THE American Community Surve) in the mail two weeks ago. They called their local congressman and left him a message. He called them back and told my father that it (THE American Community Surve) was not Constitutional and that he would be looking into the matter and would get back to them.

              Their congressman also said that it is best not to feel it out but, if you do, do not lie cause they could fine you from $100.00 to $500 for any misinformation.

            • Does raisin’ kane on your property count?

          • I got something like this when the census was going around..I threw both of them in the trash

            it didnt come regustered mail so fuck em..and even if it did..fuck em

            Im not going to inciminate myself..or answer any dam form

            i didnt get arrested

            • Bloodyfellow says:
              Their congressman also said that it is best not to feel it out but, if you do, do not lie cause they could fine you from $100.00 to $500 for any misinformation

              Oh, shucks..I had already decided to cover that ..above every block proviced for the answers..print…probably!!!!

              NOt clear??? Exactly!!!Lying??? How–it says probably

          • I am surprised the form didn’t ask how many times a day a person urinated or had a bowel movement…..Sorry, I don’t mean to be crude but this is unreal!!! Who would be dumb enough to fill it out? This is a set up for taking your home just like the Bolsheviks did in Russia and Cuba after the “Revolution.”

        • Talk about invasive!

          Bend over and cough, anyone?

          • Invasive is RIGHT – holy cow! What roused my suspicions the most is the question re how many rooms your house has. Know this is going to sound paranoid but I thought how convenient for TPTB if housing is “needed” for homeless, unemployed, immigrants, disaster victims, etc. They could look at us and say “Hmmm…six room house for two older people…they’ve got PLENTY of space they’re not using…and we have this single mother of five on welfare for the last 11 years who simply can’t AFFORD housing…now we’ve got a place for her…”

            • WestVA: Not paranoid at all. Ted Kennedy tried to get a bill passed for that very thing, several years back before his death, to try to force people with large homes & unused bedrooms to take in total strangers, immigrants, etc. Google it.

            • PS: I meant to also say this Survey form is not new. It’s been around a few years already. I remember first reading the questiins online. A total creep out.

      5. Monsanto is the Devil.

        • Daisy,

          How true indeed. Nowadays is so hard to find old seeds of any kind.
          It seems like they dissapeared in one night. But people don’t see it yet.

          Here is the correct spot to answer 🙂

          • manos: There are a number of links for heirloom seeds at SHTF Food. Here is the link:


            If you get mobilized for war, leave your full name and mailing address with US so that WE can assist your family if it is needed.

            • D.K.

              Thanks for the link, and most important for your concern.
              I hope things will not reach to this point, because interests are so big concerning petrol and gas.
              Since Israelis support us, i believe we have a chance against the Turks.
              But alliances change over time and greed, so we must never relly on them.

              Thanks anyway. God bless you all.

          • Actually, there are LOTS of places to buy heirloom seeds.. just do a search for “heirloom seeds”. Another term to watch for is “open pollinated”, which is also pure, orignal seed. If you aren’t sure if the seeds are “God’s original”; many times, the price alone will clue you in. Hybrid seeds are normally about double, sometimes triple the cost of the “real” stuff..
            The more popular the crop, the more widely used and commercially farmed; the greater the likelihood that it has been messed with. I don’t recall ever seeing a “hybrid” radish, turnip or many greens. If the seed says “improved” that does not mean it is a hybrid; it only means that it has been pollinated under controlled circumstances and selected for particular attributes.

          • We prayed for you tonite manos—our little bible study. Psalm 46

            • Dr e,

              Appreciate for the prayers. I also pray for you my friends. U.S. is about to enter a dark period.

              Be safe.

              • Manos – if possible, please post if there are developments regarding Turkey / Greece conflict ? We don’t get details over here until the SHTF over there..

                • Sam not sam,

                  The first we hear is that Israeli F16s while protecting the drill platform area, locked in their radars Turkish F16s.
                  The distance between them was around 70 miles, but both use some kind of missile called AIM-120 AMRAAM, which can find its target in long distances.

                  The second is that Pres. Obama asked from the Turkish president to chill out, because Cyprus and Israel have every right to search for gas.

                  But it’s not by coincidense that both Turkey and Greece, are having big military drills near their borders.
                  I hope reasoning will prevail. If not….
                  But in any case i’ve fixed a backpack with essentials, found my dissmisal document, and my old uniform.
                  Unfortunatelly due to the years the uniform got way smaller 🙂

                  • Yes, clothing seems to shrink once it is put into storage.. stay safe and please keep us informed on exactly the types of things that you mentioned with the F-16’s ?

                  • SNS: I suspect the Israeli’s have tweeked whatever armament of OURS that they have. They are serious tech heads.

        • And they will kill us all if they can….

      6. anyone associated with the pathological, insane ayn rand hardly should be listened to concerning any issue let alone economics.

        • Tom, the only argument i’ll make here is to attack the message rather than the messenger. As mentioned in the article, there are many other thinkers out there with the same or similar assessments about the current state of our economy.

        • Why?


      7. Manos, God Bless you and keep you.

        I’m glad to be awake!


      8. This depression will be worse for several reasons:

        7 Billion people on the planet are competing for limited resources such as fresh water and fossil fuels, which translates to reduced food production. Hybrid varities require large amounts of fertilizer to produce big harvests. There are 7-10 calories of fossil fuels embedded in each calorie of food that reaches the American table.

        Multiculturalism has failed in America and in Europe. We are not one big melting pot. I am sure that many here who live in a big city can attest to that. If there is even a small breakdown in services, there will be blood.

        Close to 1/6 of the US population is on food stamps.

        Our electrical infrastructure is maxed out and needs a very significant investment of non-existant dollars.

        We can no longer afford the tremendous military that has made us #1 in the world. Other countries will start making moves to grab what little resources are left in the world when we draw our military down. China is already making moves around the world.

        The canary in the mine will be the third world. They will be priced out of the market for food. There will not be any to send to them to bail them out this time.

        In the last depression, a large pecentage of the US population lived on the farm. It is about 2% now. Families will not be able to move to Uncle Bob’s farm when they are out of work.

        All the world economies are based in the Infinite Growth Paradigm that assumes we will have infinite growth because we have infinite natural resources. We are now finding out very quickly, that the resources are very finite and we are running out of them.

        • Red Leader,

          You are right on the spot.
          But if i had to select the most important, i believe it has to do with multiculturalism.
          The worse thing for us Christians is to see our religion being downgraded daily, whereas muslims do whatever they want all over Europe (and i pressume in U.S. also).
          They are forbiding kids from doing their cross in order not to insult muslims.
          They are taking off crosses from courts of law, and schools.
          They are downgrading the importance of Christmas all over Europe.
          Now try to think similar cases being implemented from Christians, in Muslim countries. Funny ah?

          • Yes, funny – actually, horrendous is more like it. A friend of ours teaches music in a local public school. Over the past 30+ years she has taught her students the songs “God Bless America”, “Battle Hymn of the Republic”, “How Great Thou Art” and more. And they have sung these songs at school assemblies and CONTINUE to do so. She has the support of her principal, a good family man and staunch Christian, and of the school board, church goers all. She told me recently over lunch, “If somebody files a complaint, what are they going to do – fire me? I’m 62 years old and can retire any time I want!” Woo-hoo!!! Waytago!!!

        • I think another reason that this will be worse is that people are accustomed to a far different lifestyle now. Many things that were day-to-day chores during the last Depression are considered “lost arts” now. Not that many people know how to:

          ~ Can and preserve food
          ~ Grow their own food
          ~ Sew clothing
          ~ Cook from scratch
          ~ Mend
          ~ Knit
          ~ Build shelter

          Those are just a few things from a very long list. We’ve had it so easy that for most of our lives, food comes from the grocery store, clothing comes from the department store and getting a house means locating a good realtor.

          We will find out just how spoiled we really are. I think there are a lot of folks who just won’t be able to adjust to the new way of life.

          • Excellent points Daisy. The big one you missed was being able to heat your home in the winter with a wood stove that does not require any external energy, such as a pellet stove does.

            If ones preps count on the grid always being up and running, and the fuel truck delivering fuel to your home for heating on time, I wish them the best of luck. I believe that view is overly simplistic.

            In most urban and surburban areas the grid must be up to get water to your tap and take away the waste water.

            • Daisy—-many will perish and suffer.
              I’ve thought on those lines–and the best I can do is upgrade to a 500 gallon tank(still they will only fill it 85%), fill that baby, continue to use central H/A, and save the 425 gallon tank of propane for WHATEVER.
              I bought a military tent stove(very inexpensive) and a little finaggling will hook it up in the garage..and I can cook on it—the log rack was bought Saturday, ready for assembly(that would be me), and dh is a logger AND has friends at the Amish mill are letting us get all the pieces of wood we want.
              I am cold-natured…as much afraid of freezing as starving.
              God bless my lost America.

            • Excellent point about the heat. I only have a propane space heater for my apartment, which is only good as long as I have access to propane, of course. It’s not like you can really stock a year’s supply of propane in an apartment, you know.

              I read a neat book called “Surviving the Apocalypse in the Suburbs” that addressed different ways to deal with waste and heat your home in a grid-down situation. It is for preppers, not survivalists, per se, but I’d definitely recommend it for the interesting solutions it provides.

            • Only problem at our house heat-wise is that I’m severely allergic to wood smoke. Found out when I went to Girl Scout camp in early 1960s and ended up in hospital first night after fireplace in cabin was lit. We have forced air furnace and two space heaters; all I can hope is that gas & elec. don’t crash.

          • Daisy,

            I agree. In the past 100 years, we have lost so much knowledge about how be be self sufficient… that used to be passed down from generation to generation.

            I read your earlier post. You are an inspiration. Stay strong. May God bless you and your children.

            KY Mom

          • Hey Daisy, I agree with your post 100%.

            Couple of problems though for many of us. Growing food is fine if you live in an area where water is no problem ie; lots of rain, stream or pond nearby or maybe you have your own well. I happen to live in the desert southwest where we have none of the above. What water I have stored will be needed to for drinking and waste disposal, not watering plants. Soil condition is another consideration. Ours sucks! Yes, we fertilize but it takes alot to produce so little and the water flows through the soil like a strainer. Add to that high heat and low humidity and we have problems. I have looked into purchasing seeds that are adapted to my local enviroment which will help. I do believe these same problems will exist for those stuck in the cities as well. What happens when water delivery systems break down? Up SCWOAP! Just saying.

            • AZ –

              I have a long-standing fascination with Mike Reynolds and his Earthship housing. The design reuses “grey water” for the planters that are indoors. Depending how you set up your indoor garden you have the ability to induce high humidty, which allows you to use far less water. There is a community of this type of housing near Taos, NM. Now I would not really want to live in that community, per se but the design of the houses is absolutely amazing. I can think of no where I would rather be in a grid-down situation. I think it’s called something like Greater World Community.

              Check it out!

            • Thanks Daisy, will do!

        • Don’t forget the important fact that we are now on Generation 3 of selfish and self centered American citizens. Most little princes and princesses don’t even know how to sweep a floor let alone grow some tomatoes.

          The shock of collapse will send them all into a frenzy.

          • I don’t know about a frenzy, Mr. Blutarsky.

            I think there are 3 different reactions in a desperate situation.

            1.) Grit your teeth and keep going right through the problem

            2.) Try to figure out a way around the problem, be it illegal/immoral or merely clever

            3.) Sit down and cry and wait for rescue

            The princes and princesses mostly strike me as sort #3. 1 and 2 are completely alien to their nature and their upbringing.

            • +1

          • You mean all those little dust kittens don’t go running off all by themselves? 🙂

        • I think USA IS a melting pot. The scum seems to float to the top.

      9. We are preparing for another Great Depression by living like we are already in the midst of the worst part. We have gotten out of debt, save a few medical bills, but all credit cards, car, etc is gone. I bake our own bread, buying the flour in bulk. We use the food we store. I make my own skirts and am close to a design that I can wear in public! I buy everything used. Not only used but on dollar days. I found five pairs of great jeans for my son that fit the waist but were five inches too long. Well, I learned how to hem. I am still buying shoes and undies new, but I have made four pairs of nice linen boxers out of a high quality dollar sheet. I am going to stock up on used tennis shoes and a few arch inserts going up in half size increments (from the thrift store) so if I can’t buy any, we have them. I am doing the same with jeans. Only the waist matters. I am working on a pants design from ten dollar wool pants and a vest too. (Won’t be as pretty as Filson, but just as warm) We don’t drive anywhere we don’t have to and I dip candles for fun, stockpiling them and providing cheap gifts. I make our own laundry soap and diswasher soap and we use ivory for everything. My cleaning supplies come from my storage, (borax and vinegar) But I do “splurge” on bar keepers friend. Basically, we live like we are dirt poor. Some of my friends are horrified. But this is the only way out of the city for us. We save every cent we can by doing things for ourselves as simply as possible. I still need to make a batch of lye soap. My point is not to brag. I am a pretty humble person. But all of these skills can be found online. No one higher in my family line taught me how to do these things. (except crochet, thanks gramma) But the rest I have taught myself. Indimidating as hell! But possible. So that is what we are doing. I even canned up last years christmas leftover turkey. Who knows, that bird might provide three christmas dinners! For me, there is bliss in simplicity. I am glad I found it. I have never been a materialistic person, but felt self concious in my surrounds because of the social pressure to buy so much crap. I am perfectly happy in my dollar sheet-skirt burning my homemade candles and eating homebaked bread. There is misery to be had ahead, no doubt. But I pray people can find the joy in the simplicity we will have no choice to embrace. Just my two cents.

        • MLG–you are awesome…congratulations..I messed up the soap twice, made a mess..so, I have about 40 jugs of store-bought, cheapy soap w. lots of Purex, bleach for colors..
          Have a feeling when we collapse, wearing dirty clothes won’t be shunned like now!!!!

          • Spot cleaning is my back up plan! Thx. Please share soap info. I love to hear of others experiences.

            • I buy at Dollar Tree, 50 oz. for $1 or Save A LOt , 64 oz for $2 and they have a brand for $1 too, or Aldi’s for $2..

              I don’t even wish to discuss soap making—that mess was all over my stove, my nice stew pots; and I won the Betty Crocker Award??
              My home ec teacher turned over in her grave..that was one of the earthqwuakes in Tn/Ky area that week!!

            • soap making is a cinch…just follow the simplest directions..i prefer the hot process method…lye, water,lard/and or veg.oil…use a stainless steel pot or your crock pot..cook it, then pack it into a mold of some kind, let it cool (overnight) then dump it out of the mold, slice it up into bars and then stash it somewhere to cure (but not necessary, its ready to use. i make laundry detergent (low sudsing and liquid gel) two gallons at a time..takes only one liquid oz. perload of laundry. i use a vinyl clad wire clothesline outside or wooden dowel rack indoors. if you need canning jars (which have gotten very expensive) go check out the sheds of your neighbors and friends who no longer can(ask first, and they will probably give the jars to you freee). i plant my veggies in anong the flower bed and bushes. i use a treadle sewing machine and make everything i wear or sleep under (quilts). use old sheets to make rag rugs. saturday night is bath night..the rest of the week it is a bird bath at the washpan. read alot…about everything.

        • MLG,

          You are an inspiration! I am working on “relearning” to sew with a 90 year old sewing machine.

          I found a website with lots of helpful preparedness homemaker information – food storage, herbs, herbal medicine, sewing, frugal tips, make your own…etc. She is a positive and encouraging Christian woman. I enjoy her website! She also has links for “free clothes patterns.”

          Here is the website:

          KY Mom

      10. (The American Community Survey)

        Read this and weep! If this don’t scare the hell out of you & wake you up, you’re brain dead!!!


          • I got one of those back at the time of the census..ignore it and throw it away

            • VRF:

              Good!!! So should every American that receives one in the mail.

              Do your duty, throw that crap in the trash! Stand up for your rights or lose them!

            • there is no proof you recieved it, or that it got to you personally..its not registered mail
              and secondly its not required by law..census info is volnetary..and any fool that would volenteer that kind of invasive information deserves to have his identity stolen..or to be exploited by his government

              there is no proof you ever got one..agin dont fall for it..these are designed for sheeple.

            • also i forgot to mention ..real census information is “numeration” only..how many people at that address.. period!

              nothing about race sex, religon..how many cars you have or bathrooms or guns etc.. or your debt or how much you owe

              all that info in that questionare the government already knows..or could find..you dont think theIRS, FBI or CIA could find out the last time you wiped your ass? im sure they can and they wouldnt ask you to tell them when that happened either..they would tell you , especially if they thought they had something on you

          • My parents got theirs two weeks ago. I’m not sure at this time who all will be on the mailing list for one of these census Survey forms. I am on this thing like white on rice and will share all the info that I can find. I will do a follow up as soon as I get more intel.

            I’m hoping Mac will do a piece on this and I will do my follow up.

            • all of those questions are illegal , other than how many reside in the home and that census shit is over, tell um to go bag their ass.

              oh i almost forgot..repeat after me…what letter..i dint get any letter..prove to me that i got it, opened it ,and did or dint send it back..

            • this is how they count the sheeple..or maybe its a reverse way to count the non sleepers

      11. Daisy,

        How true indeed. Nowadays is so hard to find old seeds of any kind.
        It seems like they dissapeared in one night. But people don’t see it yet.

      12. Manos really is front and center:

        Paymaster Germany and the Endgame

        “…Greece is the weakest link in this daisy chain of debt. When Greece defaults – it is not “if” – the daisy chain will be broken…

        When Greece defaults, the EU will then face this problem. How can membership in the EMU be maintained if no negative sanctions are imposed for pulling out of the EMU? The only meaningful negative sanction is expulsion from the EU. But what threat is that? Only one negative sanction would have any impact: blocked access to the markets of the EU nations. In short, the only meaningful negative sanction is an economic trade war in Western Europe.

        Think “Smoot-Hawley, 1930.”

        This would be, as John Mauldin titled his book, the endgame. If a trade war begins among major nations anywhere on earth, the entire post-World War II experiment in free trade could come crashing down. That would create a nightmare scenario. There would be a major worldwide recession. It would last for as long as the trade barriers did. Government budget deficits would not go to the moon. They already have done that. They would go to Mars.” …


        • “If a trade war begins among major nations anywhere on earth, the entire post-World War II experiment in free trade could come crashing down.”

          LOU is a fucking LIAR!

          FREE TRADE doesn’t exist. It never has. All trade since WWII is MANAGED TRADE and it is MANAGED to the benefit of the NWO gangster banksters.

          First they loaded up the profit to America when patriots were in office. Then they infiltrated and compromised the American government and have loaded up China and India where they are loading up THEIR profit by draining the factories, jobs and wealth of the American people, and transferring them offshore where they do not have to meet environmental guidelines, health and safety rules, and can exploit foreign workers at $.50 an hour.

          To add insult to injury the GB’s are using American depositor funds to build the factories in China and India before vacating their factories here.

          Lou is a liar and shill for the NWO. Tell him I said so! Ok?

          • To say, “FREE TRADE doesn’t exist. It never has” is a logical fallacy.

            What you’re describing and erroneously calling free trade, are actually forced-trade agreements.

            And still you go on and on about China and India, didn’t you see the graphs showing how little they matter? I can only show you the links and paste the info, I can’t make you read it or understand it.

            I’m starting to think you’re a bot.

            • Free Trade, Conservative Style

              …”Free trade begins with two people, each of whom sees the possibility of improving his circumstances by exchanging the legal ownership of assets with the other. Each wants to own what the other possesses. Each is willing to surrender something of value in order to obtain legal possession of what the other person legally possesses.

              The decision to buy and sell — one man’s “buy” is the other man’s “sell” — is made by the parties involved. Each assesses the value of that which he seeks to obtain and compares it to whatever he is willing to surrender.

              Next-door neighbors on one side of the street go through the same mental processes of value-assessment that across-the-street neighbors do. There is nothing about the line down the middle of the street that changes the mutual evaluation processes.

              But, say critics of free trade, a barbed wire border is different from a highway dividing line. This is true, physically speaking. Barbed wire can hurt you. But why does the composition of the dividing line make the process of buying and selling fundamentally different?

              Both borders mark legal differences. A highway dividing line marks the separation of cars travelling in opposite directions. A barbed wire border between nations imposes restrictions on the flow of people. But why should the flow of goods across a national border be different from the flow of goods across a highway border?” …

              The problem with conservatives who favor restrictions on cross-border trade is that they do not seem to recognize at whose head the .45 is pointed.”


            • Clark: You can call it “forced trade” if you want, and try to conceal and decieve all you want too, but your FUCKING guru and hero, LOU, IS OUT OF THE CLOSET AND EXPOSED BY HIS OWN WORDS! LOU calls it FREE TRADE. LOU is a GLOBALIST! Read his words again. The emphasis is mine.

              “If a trade war begins among major nations anywhere on earth, the entire post-World War II experiment in FREE TRADE could come crashing down.”

              Here LOU calls the existing international trade system that has been in place since WWII, FREE TRADE!

            • Clark: Again LOU tries to deceive people by applying a “garage sale economics” definition of the barter between two individuals, and apply that definition to International Trade.

              What a croc of SHIT! Apples and oranges!

              International trade is managed trade. Managed trade is not FREE TRADE. Managed trade is the “mercantilism” you rail against. And that managed trade is “merchantiled” to the advantage of the NWO Globalist Gangster Banksters.

              LOU is a LIAR! LOU is a FUCKING SCHILL! LOU is pushing the FREE TRADE of the globalists and selling it to Americans as a FREEDOM.

              It is not a FREEDOM. It is a system designed to make economic serfs of Americans and destroy America as WE know and love it. It is evil. It is diabolical. It is blantantly dishonest and propaganda!

              It is “merchantlism”. It is managed trade. It is a system that is designed to drain the wealth of the middle class of America and Europe and it IS the “giant sucking sound” that Ross Perot warned US about.

            • Clark: $300 billion doesn’t matter? $300 billion trade deficit every year with JUST China doesn’t mater? Are you out of your fucking mind? $300 billion dollars would pay for American SSI and medicare.

              How much is your allowance? LMAO! 🙂

            • The U.S. Content of “Made in China”

              “Goods and services from China accounted for only 2.7% of U.S. personal consumption expenditures in 2010, of which less than half reflected the actual costs of Chinese imports. The rest went to U.S. businesses and workers transporting, selling, and marketing goods carrying the “Made in China” label. Although the fraction is higher when the imported content of goods made in the United States is considered, Chinese imports still make up only a small share of total U.S. consumer spending.”


            • Clark: The fact is that WE have a $300 billion dollar trade deficit with China every year, year in, year out. That represents the transfer of wealth from America to China, at the rate of $300 billion dollars every year. Thats REAL MONEY.

              Don’t try to hide it as a percentage of the American economy, which is huge, in a blantant attempt to manipulate the truth.

              The truth is that FREE TRADE is transferring the wealth of America to China at $300 billion a year. Are you saying that $300 billion a year under a managed trade system is an insignificant amount of money when 45 million Americans are on food stamps and unemployment rate is at 16-22 percent?

              Suggest you follow my link. tell it to the workers in maine who have lost 10,000 jobs to China. And then of course there are the other states ……


            • Free or Fair?

              “Mercantilists have absolutely no argument when we recognize that trade is mostly between individuals. Mercantilists pretend that trade occurs between nations such as U.S. trading with England or Japan to appeal to our jingoism. First, does the U.S. trade with Japan and England? In other words, is it members of the U.S. Congress trading with their counterparts in the Japanese Diet or the English Parliament? That’s nonsense. Trade occurs between individuals in one country, through intermediaries, with individuals in another country.” – Walter Williams.

              The insignificant percentage of trade with foreign nations is Not what’s causing People in the unitedstate to loose jobs, massive over-bearing regulations are.

              Some People just refuse to see the truth.

              “Although globalization is widely recognized these days, the U.S. economy actually remains relatively closed. The vast majority of goods and services sold in the United States is produced here.” – frbsf.org

            • durango kid and clark
              im starting to think both of you are bots… im not exactly sure where either of you stand or your ridiculous contradictions….. it is …odd… very odd.

            • Really, eeder?

              I think you’re not giving the subjects much thought. Visit mises.org and read a bit then get back to me.

        • RetMSSgt84,

          Thank you for the link! I am a fairly new gardener (only 2nd year), so I have been trying different varieties of seeds and trying to find what grows best here in this soil and climate.

          I only plant heirloom seeds.

          KY Mom

          • KY mom.. It might go against the grain, but you’ll do well growing tomatoes and sweet corn using the hybrids. Save your heirloom seeds, or use them sparingly and don’t plant them too close to any hybrids or they’ll cross pollinate and render any seeds you save from them useless. You can store your heirloom seeds in the freezer. Using the hybrids now will give you higher yields (think canning)because they are more tolerant to drought and disease (more so then some heirlooms). The saving of the seeds from heirlooms during a SHTF scenario is basically the only reason I bother with the heirlooms.

          • go to any rural area or neighbor that has a garden..ask questions about what they are growing etc…also, have your soil tested..your county extension service should be able to help you out with all of that and for free.

          • PO’dpatriot and caryn,

            Thanks for the garden tips. I do have extra heirloom seeds safely stored for long term.

            We have a home business, so when customers are here and see the garden, garden topics often come up. I have traded seeds with some people.

            Caryn, I did get a soil test at a country store. (I just wanted to have one here…just in case.) Do you usually do the soil test in the spring or fall?

            KY Mom


        • Say it ain’t so……

        • Hi Marine4life,

          Semper Fi Brother!

          I love seeing other Marines here!

          What is your estimate on when things will really start to break down?

          Gerald Celente, whom I like, but take with just a little grain of salt is now predicting that THIS October will be the “Great Unraveling”.

          What do you think, and what is your time line prediction?


          JD – US Marine (87-93) – Defender Of The US Constitution


          • 1st Battalion, 2nd Marines (1/2)

            (Oath Keeper)– Defender Of The US Constitution

            Semper Fi Brothers!

      14. My parents and grandparents survived the “Great Depression” by growing their own food (Veg/meat).
        Bartered for what they had to buy. Hard time are ahead. Plan, Pray and Prepare for the worst event to hit us ever. High unemployment, higher prices, civil disobedience and roming crowds. It will get ugly and stay that way until we all begin to understand that we need to stick together for mutual survival.

      15. In SEATTLE – Swedish Medical Center announced Monday it is cutting 300 positions, about 3 percent of its workforce, to cut costs. But some of those workers will still have jobs.

        In an email to the staff from Swedish President and CEO Dr. Rod Hochman, Swedish faces a $19 million operating budget gap.

        “We continue to see fewer commercially insured patients; we’re providing more uncompensated care, and are writing off more cases as ‘bad debt’ due to people being unable to pay their medical bills,” Hochman wrote. “In addition, we are still reeling from recent state cuts in Medicaid and expect that deeper cuts are on the way at both the federal and state level for both Medicare and Medicaid. In fact, just this morning, the White House announced a deficit-reduction plan that calls for cutting $248 billion from Medicare and $72 billion from Medicaid.”

        Not all 300 workers will be let go. Some of the cuts will come from vacant positions that won’t be filled, and some workers will be transferred into other positions.
        Swedish Medical is already preparing for downturns.

        Or economy in the N/W has been more stable than other western coast states. But now the crunch is being felt.
        Anything that effects Boeing, Microsoft or any major economic player like Swedish Medical is BAD news to us.

        • Georgia Pacific closes…700 employees with no job.

          • For complete list, see the following:

            • Sorry for being computer-challenged – go to:

              about.com.retail industry

              Click on “Stores and Sales Research”

        • Hi RetMsgt84,

          John D. here, US Marines.

          Are you Marines or Army?

          Above, I asked Marine4life what he thought was the timeline of events as he thought it might occur.

          I sk you the same question. Based on your research, evaluation of current circumstances and news, what is your timeline estimate for events to really start to come apart?


          JD – US Marines – Defenders Of The US Constitution

      16. I use this mail order company for heirloom seeds, they are a family run business, reliable.


        • dreamer8280,

          Thank you for the link.

          KY Mom

          • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sgvRaO2u_IU

            Try this, I just wish I knew about this sooner, because I’ve had some really good heirloom tomato plants.

            You might have to cut and paste it, if this don’t show up as a link.

            • kevin,

              Great video! I just watched the video several times and took notes.

              Thank you! 🙂

              KY Mom

      17. Talk of a double dip recession? Talk of a depression? By honest economic measures, we are ALREADY in a depression and have been for several months.

        It’ ain’t going to get better. I am quite certain the only way out of this is war. It has been that way in the past and will continue to be in the future. As long as the psycopathic elite are in control and we consent to it, this will always be the way things are done in this world. Things will never change if we do not wake up more people. I am hoping for that magic 10%. Change yourself from within and let it work itself outward.

        Stay vigilant. Prepare and God Bless.


      18. It’s not too bad in the part of the country I live, so it’s hard for people to see what’s coming. While I spend my free time reading this site and others like Economiccollapse blog they’re reading the sports page and gushing over the new tv season. A lot of folks are in for a horrible awakening one day, which is too bad since even at this late date there’s time to prepare.

        • AG – know what you mean. I’m a member of a Christian Women’s group – good people, but none (save one) has a blessed CLUE about what’s really happening. Hubby says same with guy friends – meets them at neighborhood bar & grill once a week and topics are always football and vintage cars. Tried to broach SHTF info once and was asked if he really believed that $#!+. Uh…yeah….

          • Ditto here. I am the lone fish who is awake & watching. Over 3 years ago moved closer to senior parents & a few siblings, came with 75 educational DVDs re “reality” of our times, envisioned popcorn & lengthy discussions (hoped watching DVDs would be more successful than the 5,000 emails of info I had sent over the prior 5-6 years). WRONG! Minds closed like bear traps. “With knowledge comes pain,” wrote King Solomon. Nobody wants to deal with the pain of truth & reality. Knowing truth is definitely a burden, but I wouldn’t trade it for anything!

            • Truth, no matter how ugly or awkward, is always better than not knowing. Nice to know most of us here are singing out of the same hymnal!

      19. IMHO.. we are and have been in a depression.. the things which make this fact not apparent to everyone and anyone is the existence of a lot of Gov. programs which did not exist during the first depression and serve only to mask, prolong and I think, exacerbate the deepness and pain of a depression.

        The existence of these programs would and have helped during normal recessions; but in a depression, they hide reality and breed dependence. The result will be a much harder fall..

        • Uncle Ben with quivering lips will present QEIII tomorrow but not sure what he will call it, if he even front doors it. Italian bank stocks anyone. This shell game will go on for a little longer (this winter I believe). More difficult for the sheep to riot in the winter with snow on the ground.

        • I’ve always thought the same too.

      20. I thought 10-20 years of stagnation like the Japanese went through was the best case scenario…..?

      21. My rural mailman brought registered mail to my garage–couldn’t help but notice 20–30 gallon drums on one side…and just had to ask what was in them…and I just gloated and said ‘water’!!!
        Why??? he said…and I said for when the SHTF…the look on his face was priceless and I told him I couldn’t tell what else I had…’cause then I’d have to kill him…and left it at that….

        Made his day???? I wager I did.

        Manos—that ‘ignorance is bliss’ chit is everywhere.

        • JJ thats is freaking hilarious!!!

          • Got one better….just got back from the gun range and cleaning all of them, so they’re all out and laying on the floor. My son orders a pizza that i didnt know about so when i opened the door with a .45 slide and barrel in my hand and the rest of my guns laying on the floor (which was in plain view)he took a step back and told me not to worry about the tip. ahahaha but i gave him a $5 and told him he didnt see anything here…hahaha

            • Reason #354 why I don’t deliver pizza…good one!!!

          • Thanks–it was worth it to see the expression on his face–I bet he’s still wondering how serious I was!!!

        • Cable guy was here the other day & he needed immediate access to a room where we store ammo, guns & dog food.

          I’m sure he thinks we are nuts but there’s no doubt he won’t ever come back to rob us! A couple of AK’s scared him off for good!

          • My landlord was repairing a leak in the roof so was up in the attic. He saw my rows of 2L bottles full of water and raised his eyebrows. I said, “We’ve had such wind lately – it’s to hold the house down!”

            • LOL!

        • JJ,

          I might have told them they are empty. Now that is one person who knows you have a ton of water. Can you hold him off? Probably. But how many people is he going to tell and he knows your address. Can you hold of 10 or 20 of his buddies? What if they are armed too? I would have kept that under wraps…or lied about it. JMHO.

          • Well, he was the landlord; so his interest was most likely wondering why there were bottles of water above HIS ceiling.. and wondering how much it would cost him if they sprang a leak..

            I have purposefully kept my preps very hidden from view. We are fortunate that our house has over sized rooms, so when we remodeled a few years ago, I had closets specially built and lots of hidden compartments / false walls. I had one person do all the work even though I could’ve done it myself. But he and his family are “in on the deal” and if the SHTF, he will come directly to my house and together, we will protect our families. He brings more than supplies.. ex military, avid hunter and extremely well armed.

            • my reply was regarding Daisy.. sorry

            • Yeah, I wasn’t too thrilled to have someone see all of my water. I would have thrown a tarp over it or something had it not been a sudden emergency repair. We lost some shingles in a storm and the rain was POURING in.

              This does bring me to my very favorite thing about renting vs. owning – someone else to fix the leaky roof! There is a bright side to everything!

          • He’s smaller than me—I can handle him…and he has no clue even what TSHTF meant—it was obvious in his expression..

            • JJ, crash and burn, Mr Blutarsky, Daisy and the rest-
              I know you are all awake and preparing. You guys don’t need any advice from me, but please, PLEASE don’t let anything slip in your opsec. Even an little bit. Anyone who knows anything about your preps becomes a potential source of trouble come shtf. If not the landlord or the pizza delivery boy, then the people they talk to later. You know what I mean. I’m probably just a bit more paranoid than the everage person about this, but still…play it close to the vest, always.
              Best to all of you. You’re in my prayers and thoughts daily.

            • I agree completely Okie. I was totally unprepared for someone to be in my attic.

              Any ideas on how to move without anyone realizing they are relocating a metric crap-ton of stored food? We’re looking for a better living situation and will be hiring movers. I figure I will need to be sneaky about how I pack and I’m going to relocate some of the stockpile myself before the big move.

            • Daisy – if possible, pack your supplies yourself in your car.. if that isn’t possible, pack them in very sturdy containers and tape them shut very well. Be conscious of the weight of the boxes after packing them. You don’t want someone complaining that they are too heavy or opening them to see why they are heavy. Marking them with “Glass – fragile” might help too. If they are in labeled boxes, get some brown paper from Home Depot or cut grocery bags up and wrap your boxes Christmas style..

            • @SO, agree with ya but! Let’s face it, most of the sheeple have the attention span of a rock and the memory of slug. When the SHTF, these people won’t remember squat about who has what. They will be more worried about why their Iphones don’t work. When reality sets in, it will be to late for them.

      22. I agree with Dir. Brooks that there is a fundamental problem with the system and we need less regulation and more independence. However, he seems to be soft peddaling the extent of the issue. The fundemental issue is a debt based economy where more money is owed than will ever exist.

        Unless we take back the power to issue money and end the fed the crises cannot be averted, softened or tweeked. When the rest of the world refuses to accpet the dollar is when the crises will climax.

        When that will happen I do not know but between now and then we will continue to live in the recession/depression area.

        Preparing for the final collapse is all we can do as citizens. What the final collapse will look like, I’m not sure. But we certainly will see rationing of gas, food and heating oil.

        Till then remain calm and carry on!

      23. Everyone knows that something is different about this depression. The first one in 29, America had manufacturing in full swing and much of America was still living on family farms.

        What is on the horizon to bring us out of this one!!!!!


        • All of us here.

          • Excellent reply.

            I hope that I am not the only one that is praying that whatever comes our way..we will emerge on the other side with greater respect for each other, humility and character.

            And oh, some shrunken heads from globalist banksters as trophies is ok also.

            • Saw a real shrunken head at a Ripley’s Believe-It-Or-Not Museum almost 50 years ago. Not pretty. Wouldn’t want it in the house – prob. put it in crawlspace under front porch to keep coons and possums away…

      24. man i’ve been waiting for this for 4 or 5 yrs now,ain’t gonna happen!

        • patience cry wolf……and it isnt going to happen tomorrow either, but it is going to happen in our life time…..so stay the course.

      25. If you know someone who is just “waking up”, here is a good basic guide to get started.

        Preparing for Uncertain Times–A Simple Guide to Getting Ready, by Mr. and Mrs. Joe Patriot

        If you know someone this might help, please pass it on. 🙂

      26. It’s actually much worse than that. The Fed has printed trillions of bogus dollars. It’s only a matter of time before we have hyperinflation. When we have hyperinflation there will be bankruptcies at every level of government. Eventually electricity won’t be supplied and neither will water. We’ll see a complete collapse of the economy and society too. I believe that 95% of the US population will die in the years that follow. I don’t see any way out.

        • Bill S: No hyper-inflation Bill, I have explained that a zillion times. Everyone was screaming that WE would have hyper-inflation by this past summer when Bernake printed $2.7 trillion dollars. It didn’t happen.

          Then WE discovered that he had in fact printed $18 trillion in the past 2.5 years. Seven times the amount of which, all of the “top analysts” were saying WE would have hyper-inflation.

          Wake up and smell the coffee Bill. Ignorance is not a character flaw unless you refuse to accept the facts.

          WE do have double digit inflation (which is the PLAN) that I mentioned last year at this time and said WE would have that by this past suummer. That was recently confirmed by John Williams and posted by Mac here.

          The danger today, and it should culminate over the next six months one way or another un less Bernanke can kick the can down the road, is global depression, not hyper-inflation.

          Get a grip Bill and start reading a different “top analyst”. The one you are reading is an idiot.

          • Not All analyst said hyper-inflation by this Summer. Most were like Marc Faber saying only, it was more likely. And it still is.

            Of course you’ll Never hear a banker or a bakers buddy say that hyper-inflation is a possibility.

            Note the word “possibly”:

            “John Williams of ShadowStats expects hyper-inflation, possibly in the next 6 to 9 months. I think he is a little early in his timing, but he may not be off as far as to its actual occurrence. I fully expect double digit inflation by the end of 2011, but we have a ways to go before hyper-inflation, which I would classify as inflation over 30%.”


            “No one knows how this will play out.

            … Long term there are too many unknowns to be in any camp, especially when you have a machine known as the Fed that can shoot out billions trillions of dollars whenever it chooses and the size of the manipulated part of the economy gets bigger and bigger. I just watch what the Fed is doing and adjust accordingly on a roughly six month basis.” …


            • Clark: Maybe ALL top analysts were not saying “hyper-inflation” (exampled by Marc Faber) but YOU were hawking that mantra! And still are.

              Over and over and over again. Its all here in the archives for anyone who cares to check your double speak.

              And 30% inflation by the end of 2011 is NOT hyper-inflation so Williams is inaccurate with that statement and that begins to erode his credibility as an “analyst”.

              He does what he does very well. He is a statistician. He is not an analyst. There is a difference. Still, I will bet you $100.00 that there is no 30% (CPI)inflation by the end of 2011.

              Mac can hold the money. Put your allowance where your mouth is, or shut the fuck up! You don’t know squat!

      27. The housing and construction sectors are in depression. The auto industry is on the verge, held up only by government intervention. I am told that 1 in every 6 jobs are auto industry related. Soon, the federal government will have to start laying off. State and local governments already started with big layoffs. As you know, unemployment and inflation are grossly understated by the government. Did you know that oil refining is classified as manufacturing? Remove refining from manufacturing numbers and automation of jobs and outsourcing and the manufacturing sector looks like a depression. The biggest sector left is low paying service industry jobs. This is the end of the economy. At least for the near future. May the cyclops eat you next to last.

        • Automotive is grim, even WITH the bailouts. When the bailouts were given the companies had cuts that they had to make in return for the money to keep their heads above water.

          GM of Canada, for example, had to close the lowest moneymaking 25% of their dealerships. That may not sound like much but each dealership employed a certain number of people for parts, sales, service and administration. In turn, the manufacturers had less vehicles to produce, which put folks on the assembly line out of business. Then subcontracters like Dana, for example, also had to lay people off that made the components that the other people assembled into new vehicles.

          I’m sure the pattern in the US is nearly identical.

      28. There were depressions in the US prior to 1929. History buffs can fill in the vacant spots.

        • 47 recessions in the United States since 1790 this one might be the 48th or the 47th..i’d have to read more to be sure..but close enough

          • I know at the end of the civil war there was one. My Moms’ side of the family left Ohio County, Kentucky for Wayne County, Illinois because of the economy, back then.

      29. Swing your preps into overdrive. I have mostly big, expensive stuff or time consuming stuff left on my list.

        But, I think I’ll run out this week and stock up on more dog food, canned food, beans & rice, seeds (if I can find some), medical supplies, TP, batteries, a few more flats of water, etc. I’m also going to keep the cars at 3/4 full and re-fresh all the gas cans.

        Good time to plant a few more fruit trees also.

        Any more ideas for last minute preps?

        • Mr. Blutarsky-
          Don’t forget about your first aid kit. Triple antibiotic ointment, rubbing alcohol, betadine liquid, Hydrgenperoxide, 4×6, 4×4, 3×3 2×2, roller gauze, ACE wraps, Tylanol, Ibuprophen, benedryl, anti-acids, 2 new oral and 2 new rectal thermometer, baby formula,gaugaes, Triangle bandages, vodka, whiskey, canned meat, dry pasta, rice & beans, dry soup mixes, good long lasting boots, winter coats, wool blankets, lantern oil, matches, BBQ supplies, etc. You’ve got the picture. . . . The things on the list you don’t need can be used to barter – like womens napkins/tampons.

        • Might sound small, but a good knife or knives are needed. Handtools (not powered) are essential. Hit the yard sales this weekend as people are selling alot of things. Example; I bought a stainless perculator coffee pot for $35.00 on line for coffee if the power goes out. I’ve stockpiled whole coffee beans from Sams and grind them up prior to brewing. Anyhow, my wife came back from the yards sales to report that she could have bought a perculator pot for two bucks that looked like new.


          • Get two or three or more. My wife broke 2 the other night trying to open a #10 can from the LDS cannery. Next day she went to the box store and bought one of each kind they sell. Now that would be a shame… to have food and no can opener that works!

            • If you have to, a stout knife like a Buck folding hunter can be used to open a can. You might have to sharpen it after a few……

      30. Check readynutrition.com they have a food storage calculator on the site, just punch in the number in your group, adults/children and it will calculate how much fats, grains etc. You will need per person. Hope this helps.

      31. Median household income is at 1989 or 1996 levels (depending whose numbers you use). In either case, we’re toast. If I look deeper, I bet I can find even more depressing stuff. I continue to adapt. As we all must.

        • I have to tell this one–remember the email with the parking lot receipt of EBT purchases for lobster and steak…ane we were so pizzed??
          Well, part II–the dude is in jail for welfare fraud…he buys and sells those items..
          Don’t ya just love it when a plan comes together???


          • JJ, I own a store and we accept EBT, although I hate it. Everyone would be stunned at the crap people buy with EBT. Abuse the system, hell yes they do! See it everyday. This will be on EBT, then after ringing it up and payment is made, give me 5 powerball quick picks, 2 $2.00 crossword scratchers and a pack of Malboros. Oh, wait a second, I’ll be right back and they come back with a 30 pack of Bud! Pay in cash from the wad they pull out of their pocket. Then they go climb into their 2009 duelly stroker. No wonder they can afford all these other items, we are picking up the tab for the candy bars, energy drinks and chips. Pisses me off everyday!

            It’s easy to rip the system off. Many sell the EBT allowance to someone else for pennies on the dollar. Real simple as there is no ID required to make a purchase. As long as they have the PIN#, they are good to go. So, I they get lets say $500 in EBT, they sell it for $200 cash and give the card to the buyer with the PIN#. They get cash and the buyer gets $500 in food stamps. Such a ripoff. I have even called USDA about asking for ID and was told NO you cannot ask for it. Reason, the person using the card “may” be buying the items for Aunt Bessie who is sick and can’t get to the store. Yeah right, like Aunt Bessie drinks cases of Red Bull.

            • USDA is part of USA INC,next to monsanto the worlds most corrupt corporation….have dealt with them alot and I agree they do nothing to stop corruption…seemingly they encourage it!

      32. The coming depression will be worse than anything imaginable. It will be a bloodbath at the beginning then a staggering slow death for what’s left. We’ve had it too easy for too long.

      33. Correct me if I am wrong, during the Great Depression we were on the gold standard. Now we have worthless fiat currency. Wouldn’t this compound any depression?

        • You are correct anonymouslady. We were on the gold standard. The problem according to my father is that no one had any money – that is why people were paid in barter items, like corn, oats, rjice, beans, flour, coffee. My folks said they almost starved the winter of 30/31. To this day my dad hates oatmeal.

          • My uncle said the same thing about corned beef and cabbage. His father died in the early 1930s and his mother converted their home into a boarding house in order to survive. They had corned beef and cabbage almost every night for supper, and the “aroma” permeated every square foot of the place. He could still recall the smell 75 years later, yet remained grateful for his mother’s ingenuity. (Also said he went to his aunt’s house for lunch on school days to ease the load on his mother – one less mouth to feed. Brought tears to my eyes.)

        • Executive order #6102 issused by FDR on April 5, 1933 effectivly removed the U. S. from the gold standard.

      34. I would like to return to the question of census as touched by Bloodyfellow, Sam not sam and others in this discussion.
        I would like to share a story of 2011 census in Lithuania.
        It was announced that Lithuania needs census, “we need to know how many are still here” stuff.
        so the propaganda machine started, and as always with “good cop, bad cop” variation 🙂 they said, if you don’t, then we’ll fine you up to 1000lt (that’s shitload of money for me at least)
        because of my previous experience with government, I said to my wife that I will not comply. since I am unemployed, they can throw me in jail as long as I am concerned, but they will get no money… I have nothing you see 😀 hahaha
        but here’s the thing. my wife gets child support from state, and she went along with census. when they came, they didn’t ask almost any questions to my wife, they just sat there and wrote what they though was right for her (except “name-surname-personal-number-date-of-birth-employment-status-if-you-please)
        anyway, they were mighty surprised when my wife said that I was not complying with census.
        now the fun part –
        no fine, no imprisonment so far.
        and the results of census? here is the classical example of poor managed desinfo campaign:
        1st squeak about results – 2,5 million ppl
        aftermath two days of hysterical discussions on TV about disappearing nation
        2nd statement about census – ca. 2,7 millions
        and final statement (and I quote) – “we still have 3 millions, relax people”
        now, what do we draw for conclusions from this one? it doesn’t matter if you participate or not. statistics are a lie. “there are small lies and there is statistics” 😀
        it is all about getting sheople to COMPLY!

      35. Poor Japan..

        Now they’re expecting a CAT2 to hit tomorrow..

      36. If you want to hide in plain sight – use cash. Get yourself out of debt. Pay off those credit cards.
        Spend your money on longterm stuff like food, winter clothing, weapons, ammunition, electric generator, Jerry cans full of gasoline, motor oil, oil filters, air filters. You get the message. Low profile. Don’t join any anti-this/that groups like the very visable jerks raising cane in our streets. Quietly prep, pray and plan.

        • I’m self-employed which helps me stay under the radar. The 11th commandment, if there had been one, should be “MYOB”. Sheeple sure don’t – always poking their noses into everyone else’s lives and business. Guess it gives them something to occupy themselves with.

      37. Question: What to do with all the money I have in the bank when the economy goes into the dumper?

        Answer: Paper money (U.S. Dollar) will be worth almost nothing. What will be valuable is food, clothing, shelter, pwesonal hygene products that are not made anymore – I think you get the message.

        Become self sufficient A.S.A.P.

      38. When the shtf I am going to barter myself out for room and board. Someone has to stay awake on the midnight shift and watch the perimeter. Prefer you have a mansion with pool in a warm dry climate. (humor)

        • How about an A-frame with birdbath in a hot, humid climate? (If you accept our offer now, we will throw in nightly games of Jeopardy and Trival Pursuit.)

          • How big are the birds?

            • 🙂 🙂 🙂 !

        • Can you stop breathing, control your heart rate, feel the trigger creep of a precision trigger, feel with the fleshy part of your “pull my finger”, to “pull a trigger”…

          • Put a vortex flash suppressor on and use low flash ammo.

            • How about just a twist on spec can.

      39. you can breed back from non heirloom seeds. three experiments i tried: corn [silver queen] six years for a decent product, popcorn four years; and green beans SIX years.time not enough TIME! it’s taken years to get the raised beds off of fertiliser. the row crops are doing well in carolina red clay with leaf and pine needle mulch. you gotta start NOW tobe prepared for later. it wasn’t raining when noah built the ark. prep like hell. enjoy life ya’ll!

        • Yes, but what will you eat while you do? Yield will be down.

          • thats my point. not enough Time! that’s why you need heirloom seeds. and yes i i’m proud to becalled prepper;survivalist; or just plain weird. redundancy and adaption are the keys. god gave us minds and hands. do all you can everyday you can. prep bro!

      40. Same old cycle of empire, just global now. In the womp phase. Kerplunk.

      41. Night Y’all. I enjoy seeing your opinions. I like what you say. I’ve been thinking it since 1995. I knew America could not be beaten militarily – it was our economy where were the weak/vulnerable. Been prepin’ ever since. Got girls (ladies now) that can put them into a silver dollar size group at 35 yards w/.357 magnum.

        They are getting ready – also a wise brother-in-law.

        Be checking in later. Prep, Pray and prep.

      42. The barbarian tribes on the western Roman empire’s periphery nibbled away at the empire’s perimeter for centuries as the roman center held strong.

        Over the centuries, those barbarians grew stronger, more cunning, more aggressive and more numerous as Rome’s center began to rot under the burden of debt, corruption, obligation and poor political leadership.

        When rome began to collapse, her interior was already populated by many of the tribes whom she once warred against and conquered, her army was mostly composed of conscripts from those defeated tribes, her money was devalued and debased and her trade and economic sectors were in a shambles….

        America is on the verge of economic and social implosion….we are like a pool of gasoline witing for a match to ignite us…

        I wouldn’t wager one cent that anything will get better here until there is a full-fledged collapse with all the losses and misery that go with it….

        We may all be doomed. But we may all be lucky enough to get shit out of the other end of this monster that will devour our way of life as we know it…and we might just have the chance to create a more optimal America democracy, based on the constitution….

        Buckle up people…it’s going to be a wicked ride.

      43. Even though the stock market is “up”, what people forget is that one dollar today does not buy the same amount of stock that it did in 2007. If you consider no change in the value of a dollar from the market high in Oct 2007, than the market is down only 19%. If you consider the loss of the value of the dollar in terms of gold, $1800oz today vs $750oz in 2007, the market is down 67% from its Oct. 2007 high. The collapse of the Euro over the next several months will usher in the “observed” depression but I think most of us here know the depression has all ready arrived.

      44. It is difficult to understand that with the so called political and economic leaders having ruined the nation for most of us, why in the world is the USA union still in one political piece.

      45. I blame guys like Al Gore and their NAFTA. This guy is a traitor. The beauty is….the people know this is coming. Churches are talking about prepping. Think of all the dead boomer toys and property that will be up for grabs when the most selfish generation kicks the bucket. They are starting to drop like flies. We have a family bet on who is next in our circle of who is who. The big fear is congress licking China’s boots. We should just print the paper…pay them off all at once and be done with them. As for the globalist and the UN…kick them out. Any way you slice the muslims will win…they are outbreeding everyone…their strategy. Well by then the planet will be trashed…the rag heads can have it. ha

      46. I went to the LDS Cannery today…it was packed!! Saw license plates from several other counties…I’m in Knox County, TN…talked to the manager and she said that they are having people drive from NC, Alabama, Louisiana, Virginia, etc…when I asked why, since there are cannery’s in Memphis and Nashville, she said that they are packed and the people can’t get in!! I just started going to the cannery about 7 mos ago…I can’t believe how it has changed..it’s soooo busy! People ARE waking up, just hope it’s not to late for them!

        • My folks and my sister live in Union county. I’ll tell them about the cannery. Thanks.

          • PO’d…here’s the website..www.providentliving.org There is a price list on there where they can see what everything costs…they sell mylar bags,7 mil for .30 each, which is unheard of!! And also they take checks…we can our powdered milk there, other things we just buy in bulk, like oatmeal, wheat berries and beans and then we bag it when we get home.They have to be at the Knoville cannery at 10:30 sharp! And it’s only open on Tuesday’s and Wednesdays…the people are really nice and helpful so if they have any questions all they have to do is ask 🙂

        • I’m heating cornmeal in canning jars(1 hr @ 200 degrees WITHOUT seal) as I read here–it lasts for years that way–not months. From an old lady canner doing it for years.
          Makes me feel better about my flour-cornmeal-pancake mix!! smiley face inserted here!!

      47. This Greatest Depression is going to me the Great Depression look like a walk in the park…

      48. Stay safe Manos. You’re in my thoughts and prayers. Eyes wide open and remain downwind.

      49. Census
        To rainyday :
        Do you have a copy of the letter that says you have to fill it out ? If so can you post a link ? My Dad works part time for the Census Dept ( He’s 75 yrs old) & I asked him about the form that was posted here. He said that the only part you “have to fill out” is the part for how many people live there. Other than that…the rest is supposed to be so they can feed it into the all knowing computer to diagnose trends…like how many people take mass transit in an area….than how many people take their own car… I know….& agree that most of the questions on this form are waaaaaayyy more than I am interested in giving them. I also always check Native American as my heritage…..’Cause I was born here ! Don’t give them any more than you are comfortable with. Keep Preppin…..& don’t tell anyone about that either….

        • Native American. I like that!

      50. Durango Kidd. Get a fucking life. Instead of spending all day posting your bullshit here, why don’t you get a job and stop living on the dole. Get off your fat ass,get out of your trailer, and get a job, We taxpayers of sick and tired of supporting obese fat slobs like you.

        • You haven’t been here long have you Fred? Is that what you call it.

        • Gee, Fred, and a warm welcome to you, too.

          • “If it were that easy, we would have asked Daisy and it would have been accomplished by now,”

        • Hey, welcome to our tribe.

          Don’t speak poorly of people you obviously don’t know. DK was in the jungle. You can get hurt real bad by old jungle guys.

          Listen fer a while then jump in, you don’t have to have the same opinion unless you are him.

        • Fred: I am not living on the dole. I don’t need a job I am a capitalist and semi retired. My money works for me. I got MINE. What you got?

          As for my fat ass, let me explain again that I workout every morning at either the Y or LA Fitness and do at least 3miles and sometimes 5 miles a day on a stationary bike before hitting the machines.

          My ass is tight! 🙂

      51. I saw the housing bubble and sold my three houses late 06 early 07 and doubled on all three. Been renting ever since! And putting all savings into physical metals. I don’t really know what else to do. Florida sucks for doomsteads and I am still too tied to my business to move, knowing that soon it may be too late or moot.

      52. 1415 EST today Uncle Ben “speaks”. I don’t think he’s a libdimtard because he doesn’t seem to be “mean” like most liberals are but he does cause a lot of EVIL.

      53. Heads up : Japan has ordered the evacuation of over 1 million people in the path of Typhoon Roke. It is expected to cut a path almost directly through Tokoyo and then directly into the Nuke area hit by the tsunami

        • I guess they should have consented to the NWO plans, huh??

      54. Why the insiders have quit buying stocks

        Postby LS-1 » Wed Sep 21, 2011 10:58 am
        Why the insiders have quit buying stocks
        September 21 2011


        Something ominous is happening on Wall Street, but nobody has noticed.

        The insiders have vanished.

        Chief executives. Board members.

        The head honchos. The people who know.

        Just a few weeks ago, they were out in force, buying up shares in their own companies with both hands.

        No longer. They’ve disappeared. Almost overnight.

        “They’ve stopped buying,” says Charles Biderman, the chief executive of stock market research firm TrimTabs, which tracks the data. “Insiders aren’t buying this rally.”

        Insider stock purchases, which surged above $100 million a day in the market slump last month, have now collapsed to just $13 million a day.

        Meanwhile the ratio of insider sales to purchases has skyrocketed. Today insiders are dumping $7 in stock for each $1 that (other) insiders are buying. That’s a worrying ratio. Six weeks ago the amounts of purchases and sales were about equal.

        It’s the kind of news that should give investors pause.

        What insiders do with their own money is one of the stock market’s best barometers.

        After all, who better than company executives know their own order books? Who knows the conditions in their industry better?

        You find insiders typically buying heavily at the market lows — they did in 1987, in 1998, and they did during the financial crisis in 2008-9.

        (You also typically find them cashing out big-time at the peak).

        • Sweet Jesus! this is unsettling to say the least!

      55. bo is going to be in denver for defcon 1 drill and so many other important people from health officials to NASA for the 27th???

        Is something big known about or being planned here in the next few days?

      56. NO mention of the CROOKED BANKSTERS…….WHERE are the JOBS???????? Yaron Brook is a POS ! ! ! CORPORATIONS ARE DEPRESSING WAGES ! ! ! Everyone is BK ! ! ! except YARON and His Bankster/Corporate Buddies ! ! ! Oh and do NOT cut out those million dollar bonuses……they DESERVE it ! ! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! What a load oF CRAP ! !

      57. all my posts keep showing up in the thread instead at bottom???

      58. The social disaster is coming soon…when you have 20 independent minded, lazy, drug-addicted, gun-totting, obese Americans all under one roof due to economic circumstances, its not going to be pretty. The unrest will start inside the home before it flows onto the streets.

      59. Clark: Although the transactions in international trade occur between PERSONS (read corporate entities)they do not normally occur between INDIVIDUALS. (Even Marco Polo was a representative for a group!)

        The RULES for that trade between PERSONS of various nations is established by TREATY. It is MANAGED TRADE, and it is managed to the benefit of the GB’s. The RULES agreed upon by the US Congress and other nations are bought and paid for by the GB’s. Its called “political contributions” which make bribery, corruption, and crony capitalism the law of the land, again to the benefit of the NWO GB’s.

        Therefore the garage sale example of two individuals negotiating an exchange do not apply and cannot logically be applied to international trade, and the statement made by the author is false! There is your logical fallacy! 🙂

        Apples and oranges!!!

        As for “mercantilism”, the evidence is in: China is the “mercantilist” evidenced by their 25% import duties on all US manufactured goods and the 20-25% manipulation of their currency.

        Clark; Don’t those facts qualify China as a “mercantilist”?

        As for this last quote you posted. LMAO! 🙂 What nonsense! Of course the vast majority of goods and services sold in the United States is produced here! Why wouldn’t that be true? WE have more than 300 million people you twit! Are We to make nothing for ourselves? LMFAO!

        America is loaded with natural resources, technology, and skill. WE do not NEED any nation for the vast majority of any products and/or services. There is nothing that America has not produced in the past that WE couldn’t produce in the future.

        “Although globalization is widely recognized these days, the U.S. economy actually remains relatively closed. The vast majority of goods and services sold in the United States is produced here.” – frbsf.org

        That statement is patently FALSE! It would be factual for any nation of considerable size and with a large population. How retarded!

        Another “logical fallacy” ! LMFAO! 🙂

        Where do you get this PROPAGANDA? I say propaganda because the author is obviously trying to skew the data to make it appear that the US economy is “closed”, when its not. It is as wide open as OUR border.

        That is a globalist FUCKING LIE. And please, please, please, tell the author I said so! 🙂

        Again, you have failed to answer my questions. Do you believe that $300 billion dollars a year, year after year, is an “insignificant amount”? 🙂 GMAFB LMFAO!

        • Clark: How can you denigrate me as a “banker” then quote the GB’s of the San Franciso Federal Reserve Bank as a truthful source?

          They of all people will be pushing the party line that “The US economy is closed”.

          LMFAO! 🙂

        • No one is forcing Americans to buy Honda’s so your whole, “It is MANAGED TRADE, and it is managed to the benefit of the GB’s.” really doesn’t add up.

          The rest of your rant makes little sense.

          For a supposed Christian you sure do cuss a lot and wish violence upon others, hypocritical wolf-in-sheeps-clothing fits you well.

          American regulations destroy American jobs, China does Not snatch them from the grasp of Americans. Free trade benefits all, that is an important lesson to learn for when SHTF and afterwards.

          • Clark; Most Hondas and Toyotas are made now In America by American workers. It has been that way for some time. Catch up!

            Clark: When the SHTF YOU will be toast! LMAO! 🙂

      60. Clark: Had to move one of your posts here to respond to you.

        “Opt Out: to choose not to participate in something —often used with of – opted out of the project – merriam-webster.com That’s exactly what they did in India, are you that dense?”

        🙂 Laugh my ass off!

        Clark, you truly are an imbecile! You have proved it again! Indians (in India) chose not to participate? Do you think the British just decided to leave India on their own out of the goodness of their Colonial hearts?

        No, son, the British left India because they had to leave. Yes the Indians refused to co-operate with the law imposed by the British Viceroy that was governing India, and the Indians specifically disobeyed the British government with respect to the salt laws, but they engaged the government with strikes and demonstrations, absorbing a tremendous amount of brutality by the British, and spilling their blood for their FREEDOM.

        There was also a major military response to British rule by guerillas who attacked British outpost throughout India, destroyed British garrisons, and murdered British soldiers and their families as acts of WAR! Read the history of India’s Independence. Indian Patriots died in these clashes as well. Clark you don’t know squat!

        Ghandi was PART of the political element of the Independence movement, but like revolutions everywhere in history there was armed conflict alongside the political movement. IE the IRA, or the Palestinians are good examples.

        Two words for you my young, ignorant friend! 🙂


      61. Clark: had to move this post here so I could respond to you. here is your post:

        “DK, you are seriously whacked to say, “Lew is a fucking shill for the globalists disguised as a Libertarian.” That is So the opposite of the truth.”

        RESPONSE: In his own words LOU identified FREE TRADE as the International Trade system operation in the world today. LOU touts that International Trading System, which is, in fact, NAFTA and GATT as FREE TRADE.

        GATT is the Global Agreement on Tariff and Trade.

        NAFTA is the North American Free Trade Agreement.

        Clark what part of FREE TRADE do you not understand? NAFTA and GATT are the RULES under which international trade is MANAGED. Which part of managed do you not understand?

        My criticism of LOU is completely fair. He touts FREE TRADE. He touts the International Trade System of the Gangster banksters, globalists, and uber rioh. He said so himself. Why do you try to interpret his own words to mean something else?

        These trade agreements are written and designed to suck the wealth from the USA and REDISTRIBUTE that wealth to third world nations where the GB’s, globalists, and uber rich have built new factories using American depositor funds (read CAPITAL. American DEPOSITOR CAPITAL), then closed the factories they owned in America and transferred the means of production and the jobs that go with them to the third world where they can employ peasants at $.50 an hour. there expense are low, their capital is cheap, their markets (America) established, their risks minimal, and their profits HUGE!!!

        What part of this redistribution of wealth do you not understand?

        In the process of that redistribution of wealth, the GB’s, globalists, and uber rich magnify their profits with new modern factories and cheap foreign labor.

        Which part of magnify their profits do you not understand?


        Clark Says: “Free Trade is Not NAFTA or GATT, get that through your thick skull, will ya.”

        RESPONSE: FREE TRADE IS NAFTA AND GATT. I believe it because LOU ROCKWALL said it is! 🙂

        Clark Says: “All trade between nations is Not managed trade.”

        RESPONSE: Really Clark? GATT defines the trade between all of the signatories to that treaty. Virtually all nations have agreed to that treaty or to separate treaties between themselves and their trading partners. Those agreements establish the RULES for the conduct of trade between those nations, therefore the trade between those nations is managed.

        Which part of managed trade do you knot understand?


        Clark says: “Free trade benefited the American Indians quite well, it was the merger of business and goberment that was to their detriment,… same as it is today.”

        RESPONSE: Really Clark? I suppose that the establishment of FREE TRADE ZONES populated by Europeans was a big benefit to them too. LMFAO! Ridiculous!

        When the American Indian accepted FREE TRADE as the norm he, for all practical purposes, signed his own death warrant and executed the destruction of his civilization.

        No more jobs skinning buffalo. The buffalo were nearly exterminated by the FREE TRADERS selling buffalo robes to the east. No more jobs skinning beavers, beavers were hunted to virtual extinction by the FREE TRADERS who were selling the pelts to hat makers in the East. Shall I continue?

        What part of death warrant, loss of jobs and means of production do you not understand? What part of the destruction of their civilization by FREE TRADERS do you not understand?

        Clark Says: “The merger of goberment and business is something you push constantly.”

        RESPONSE: That Clark is a FUCKING LIE. I do not push the merger of government and business and never have.


        Clark Says: “Also, who the heck cares what you got? It’s irrelevant.”

        RESPONSE: Maybe, maybe not. I was born into poverty, grew up in poverty, and escaped poverty by my own singular, determined efforts to become someone quite wealthy and a HISTORICAL FIGURE even if I die tomorrow.

        Maybe I know something you don’t. Take a lesson. They have been free and YOU need all the help you can get because you don’t know squat. 🙂

        I have taught you Banking, Finance, Economics, History, AND
        real estate. The banks paid for my expertise. I have given it to you for free.

        • Dk, once again with your vulgarity you showcase your wolf-in-sheep’s clothing.

          Dk wrote, “NAFTA and GATT are the RULES under which international trade is MANAGED.”

          Do you see the words Free Trade anywhere in that sentence? Or even the idea of Free Trade?

          Tell me where it says in NAFTA or GATT the requirements that American consumers Must choose to buy a Honda over a GMC? Hmmm?

          That is the Free Trade Lew Rockwell was referring to, one which you purposely ignore in quite an unnecessarily disrespectful way. Just go on and ignore the words of Walter Willams above, it’s your M.O.

          I think this is a false statement:

          “When the American Indian accepted FREE TRADE as the norm he, for all practical purposes, signed his own death warrant and executed the destruction of his civilization.”

          The problem was the introduction of cronyism and big goberment,… you really should study history more.

          DK wrote, “The buffalo were nearly exterminated by the FREE TRADERS selling buffalo robes to the east.”

          Do you suppose that was due to a lack of property rights? It seems like it is more a question of mismanagement due to a Lack Of the Free Market instead of – Due – to the Free Market.

          Also, DK, yes, you do push the merger of government and business, it’s a shame you don’t see how.

          Seriously, you are blinded by your love of goberment above all else, including God, quite typical of an American these days.

      62. Greetings everyone!
        Don’t know about the “free trade”(given that India has a 40% tariff and China has a 20% one on imported goods,to name just two “free trade” partners of the U.S.(read American)it seems a little trite to claim that “free trade” ever actually existed.On a different note,what I DO know that here in the mid-south that some NEW housing is selling/being built.I’ve noticed that BIG(4000 s.f.+) homes are again being built(mainly with Illegals from Mexico doing the work).Most but not all are in Gated communities.Most smaller houses that are 5+ years old are NOT!Some areas are having 1 out of 5 houses shuttered with or w/o a for sale sign.We had a dip in gas to about $3.15-$3.10 for a short time.It’s rising again.Fewer cars on the road at “rush hour”.Beef didn’t really go down in price as the media said it would.Most prices on everything else(even when they make the containers SMALLER) are RISING about 15-25% on a annual basis.Friends that work at a luxury car(read $500,00+)dealership are making “bank” and business is fine.Crime is up and we see fewer cops around.CHANGE is around the corner and coming fast.TPTB see it,are desperate to stop/slow it down via “centralized planning” and the so-called DHSs that are appearing everywhere.No matter,it’s ALL Far TOO LITTLE,much too late.CHANGE will overwhelm ALL the existing structures in place,be they Governments or Bankers or Multinational Corporate Structures.
        The time for CHANGE is arriving on time and on target.
        Thanks be to God for that.
        I liked living in America,as least the one I remember as a child.But those days have passed into the sunset like a pleasant dream.For th immediate present I expect our money to be devalued at some point like Argentina’s,Mexico,etc.How much and how suddenly is the question.It will be a most fearsome and terrifying time.Unlike ANYTHING we have seen to date,and heart rendering to see all these “Dugger Types” with all those kids begging for food that can’t be had.”Putting by” for yourself is not a bad idea,if you DON’T tell but a few(a very,very few)people you trust.”zip the lip” will save much grief later.I learned to my regret how fast even so-called “Christians” will rat out your ideas on “prepping” when it doesn’t fit the “End Times” or the “Rapture” mind set.On the subject of a “Christin Values America”,I suspect that the American Indians would laugh at people calling America as a whole a “Christian-God-fearing nation” that some think this country deserves.A good place?Perhaps,(unless you were Black or one of the “others”(that included the Irish at one time)America has NEVER been a perfect place,just a bit better than most other countries for a time.Men’s desire for massive wealth and a never-ending lust for power over the lives of others is what will bring the system down.Never fear,this WILL be a world wide event.
        CHANGE is coming!!!
        (what a rant!,eh 😉 )
        Best to ALL

        • make that cars priced at $50000.00+
          sorry about the typo

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