Trend forecaster Gerald Celente says that economically, socially, politically and financially things will continue to get worse, not just in the United States, but around the world. And, before the clock strikes January 1, 2012, most everyone will know we’re in the Greatest Depression.
(Full Video Interview Follows Excerpts and Commentary)
They’re running out of schemes…
In 2011, the game’s going to run out. We cannot imagine them coming up with another scheme where they’re going to be able to continue, whether it’s in the US or the EU, to print this digital money not worth the paper that it’s not printed on.
…
(The following excerpt is from a December 28, 2010 Trend Alert issued by Celente’s Trends Journal)
In 2011, with the bailout funds and arsenal of other schemes to prop up the economy depleted, teetering economies will collapse, currency wars will ensue, trade barriers will be erected, economic unions will splinter, and the onset of the “Greatest Depression” (a trend we forecasted before the massive bailouts existed) will be recognized by everyone.
As the reality of debt, disappearing jobs, austerity and corruption becomes apparent to the masses, Celente predicts that protests, riots and revolution will spread across the globe:
This is what an austerity measure is. You know that degree you have in worthlessness that you went to college for? You can’t get a job…
…When you look around Europe, that 18 to 26 year old, you’re looking at 30, 35, 40 percent of these kids unemployed – with college degrees. So now, you’re not going to get a job. Oh, and by the way, those services that you’re getting, we’re cutting them. And those pensions and benefits that your parents are getting and other people who are working, we’re going to cut those too. And one more thing, we’re going to raise your taxes.
…the people realize what’s going on. That’s the wake up call.
Europe is just the start – the very same, according to Celente, will come to the United States, albeit a bit more delayed:
This is where the revolution is going to happen. The youth of the world have, and particularly in the United States, mountains of debt to climb, and no way to get to the top.
They’re seeing the too-big-to-fails bailed out. They’re seeing the gap between the rich and poor the widest in the United States of any of the industrialized nations. So, now they have a cause because it’s affecting them.
So what we saw in England, again, with off with their heads, what we saw in Italy with the students taking to the streets, you’re going to see in Spain, you’re going to see in Ireland. You already saw it in France.
The U.S., again, is going to be slower, but it’s going to happen here at a different level. Remember, the U.S., the place has been beaten down and pushed down. You’re going to see a revolution worldwide. What’s going to unite them in this cause is another major trend.
Journalism 2.0.
The internet has become the great connector. They all know what’s going on. They’re all Facebooked, they’re all together, they have a system where they’re interacting and relating.
Journalism 2.0 is well on it’s way to changing the world as we know it, as evidenced by the organization of mass protests via online networks, the distribution of sensitive government documents by the likes of Wikileaks, and the thousands of alternative news and commentary distribution web sites around the world which can almost instantly spread news, videos and alerts to tens of millions of people around the world.
Governments already see the dangers of such social networks and communities, and they are trying to take steps now to prevent the trend from taking hold.
Legislation such as the Fairness Doctrine and restrictions on speech that may be considered ‘hatriolic’ and incites violence are already under fire, especially after the recent attempted assassination of US Congresswoman Giffords of Arizona. In previous reports we’ve pointed out that the US government has broadly labeled just about anyone critical of the government or its policies as either domestic extremists or a potential threat.
As journalism 2.0 spreads and fuels the fire of revolution, the next trend in public policy will be to shut down as much availability to free thought and speech as possible. One way this can be easily accomplished is by the aforementioned government initiatives, as well as use of the Patriot Act’s definitions of terrorism. Section 802 of the Act gives the government unprecedented power to detain, arrest and imprison those who take actions that appear to be intended to intimidate or coerce a civilian population, or to influence the policy of a government by intimidation or coercion. As is often the case with legislation, neither ‘intimidation’ or ‘coercion’ have been clearly defined, leaving the door open to abuse of power. And, in a worst case scenario, the government, by order of the President would simply shut down web sites that are deemed a threat, or they’ll simply press the kill switch on the whole internet. Celente gives his view on the issue of internet censorship:
As cyber wars increase, government control of the internet will increase as well. Along with Journalism 2.0, we saw with Wikileaks, the citizen journalist. Now people have their own cameras to take films of things we only used to h ave film crews for, now video is instant. They want to crack down on the freedom of information. They will use cyber war as another element in the war on terror to take freedom away from us and freedom of net neutrality…Orwell couldn’t have made up a better name. There’s nothing neutral about the net neutrality that they’re talking about. It gives government virtually complete control to put anybody out of business as Homeland Security did during Christmas season when they said that companies violated copyright laws…and we saw it with Wikileaks.
In addition to Journalism 2.0 taking hold of the internet, Celente forecasts that the internet is the next global battlefield. In a previous article we noted that it would take less than 15 minutes to take down the critical infrastructure elements of the entire United States. Gerald Celente agrees that the threat is real and present, and suggests that this is something we as individuals should be planning for:
The worse economic conditions go globally, the more you’re going to see cyber wars. It’s going to be a new element of warfare. It’s an internet nuclear bomb waiting to go off.
You can bring down entire financial systems, stop the banking transfers. You can blow apart, without ever having to light a fuse, a whole stock exchange from the FTSE to the DOW, from the Hang Seng to the Nikkei. Every major, every major computer connected industry or service is a potential target for cyber war. And, you’re going to start seeing it – rather than countries putting sanctions that don’t work – they’ll use cyber war to bring down their enemy.
Will you be ready in the event a major cyber attack were to hit our stock exchanges, banking systems or utility infrastructure? In 2010, there was a reported software or other issue that took down thousands of bank ATMs around the country and many people were left without the ability to withdraw money for a day or two. What would you do if ATM’s and computer bank systems went down for two weeks? Or what if your regional electricity plant was taken down? It’s not as far fetched as it seems.
This and the potential for other disasters, man-made or natural, led Gerald Celente to predict the rise of the neo-survivalism in 2010, a trend that will continue until 2012 and beyond. In 2011, Celente says that along with survivalism, we’ll begin to see a move away from big government sponsored food distribution, towards a more natural, organic approach:
As we say, know the hand that feeds you. You’re going to start seeing a lot more recalls come up from tainted food. We’re going to see more and more of the organic food movement, the buy local movement, it’s going to be one of the biggest entrepreneurial opportunities. 25% of the population, we estimate, is now ready to put their money where their mouth is. It’s a huge trend and there’s going to be counter trends to try to stop it, but at the end we see it being one of the major trends.
Also, a whole different way of growing things. Whether it’s from roof gardens, or people tearing up their lawns with grass that’s useless that you can’t grow to eat or smoke, you’re going to start seeing more and more kinds of vegetables and gardens being produced from it.
Home gardens, microfarming, hydroponic gardens and all manner of personal food production is something that people will take up as a personal right and in protest of attempted government control with laws like the S510 Food Security Bill, as well as a way to rebuke the ever increasing influence of mega corporations like Monsanto. The side benefit, of course, is that personal food production will serve as a reserve for those seeking to protect themselves from potentially catastrophic food shortages and rising prices.
Watch Gerald Celente on RT (January 10, 2011):
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“there going to rase the taxes”
well here it is..i just read that Illinois is rasing its taxes 66%
I went back to find the story, cant seem to dig it back up at the moment..anyone else see this?
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/13/us/13illinois.html?bl
a different story than i read, but none the less the same shit ..
@ VRF, yeah I saw that too. here’s the link.
http://chicago.cbslocal.com/2011/01/12/illinois-lawmakers-approve-66-tax-hike/
Gerald Celente, I think his words are as good as gold. He seems to tell things like they are, he doesn’t sugarcoat things. Telling it like it is is refreshing, even though the news aint so good.
I have not read it but I heard it mentioned on Fox News this morning as I was getting ready for work.
VRF,
You are referring to the increase by Illinois from 3 percent state income tax to 5 percent. Here is the link by the Official New York Times:
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/13/us/13illinois.html
When times get tough the people are usually the group that will get screwed. On the east coast it is really high too. It is going to be the norm when the states because of the fault of their own need to get money, they are going to tax the people higher, take ‘social’ services away and try to find some way of getting money from you.
The US is going to sting the EU, Japan, and somewhat China but I see most Asian countries survive even a few European countries (Germany, Austria, Switzerland) but the US is basically going to be what is called modern-day serfdom.
If they take down the net does this mean I have to pay my wireless sprint bill? Damn them…… After all, Al Gore invented it.
Here’s what I would do…
Ban all cargo container ships
I think the dude that wacked the chick from Arizona…was just the beginning. This is scary shit.  Many are pissed at the congress and law makers. There will be some nuts like that guy and they will take matters into their own hands with the mentality of being a patriot. From there, they will mess with the gun laws and begin the enslavement, bit by bit. They are looking for many small reasons to enslave us.
As to retirement…  Get ready to be a poor peasant farmer to feed yourself. But you’ll need to get a sinking permit!Â
Yeah I saw the personal income tax raise of 67% and business income tax will increase 46%, glad I don’t live there. Governments will do everything to squeeze the masses. Its unthinkable for them to stop spending.
This was my forecast for 2011.
1. Housing prices will decline another 19% to 29%.
2. Fuel prices will hit $4.50 / gallon for gas and over $5.15 for diesel.
3. Food prices will increase 30% or more.
4. Hundreds of Muni’s and at least 2 States will become insolvent.
5. We will learn that the Federal and many State, Muni and Union Pension funds are severely underfunded.
6. All Americans will learn the meaning of “Austerity Measures”.Â
7. The DHS and TSA will expand their bureaucracies to all public transportation and public places.
8. It will be a banner year for growth in the public sector, with the IRS, TSA and Food police leading the way.
9. The unemployment rate will become a meaningless statistic because most of the real unemployed will not be counted.
I may have to write another forecast within 60 days as we may accomplish my list by the end of the first quarter.
2011 is gonna really suck.
How can a person properly prepare if they live in the suburbs and are stuck in a house they can’t sell? I’d love to sell the darn thing & buy 35 acres in the country but I’d lose $150K if I tried to do it.Â
I’ve got all the food we need for a year. 2 months of water plus a great filtration system. Kerosene & appliances. A decent sized heirloom garden in the back yard (I’m sure the neighbors are thrilled…..), oh, and plenty of guns & ammo just in case.Â
What more can we do? I feel like a sitting duck.
I wonder if getting together with a group of folks & buying a piece of land to live on & work together would be a good idea. Find 5 people & 25 acres for example.   5 acres each.
Advice?
Comments…..The people of illinois voted for these deadbeats four years ago. Now reap the wirlwind!
gerald celente has been around a long time and his predictions are usually right on the money(no pun intended) but his timing has been off a couple of times..meaning it could be sooner than he predicted  or later. so my point is prepare ,prepare, and  prepare
GA mom, I feel the same way you do. I did what I can in terms of preps, but the holes in my defenses are huge.
I would love to get a group of people together for the purposes of starting a retreat. Over the last few days I have heard/read about several others that feel the same way. No one locally. Most folks around here would think it a crazy notion.
What can we do about it? A few ideas.
Have your own food. For 3 months (not to pick on anyone, each person’s situation is different) but 3 months? Do you plan to stop eating on the 92nd day? How about 3 years. And your own garden. And being able to forage, hunt or fish?
The PE likes to cut the services that cause us plebians the most pain. Suppose they lay off half yer local police force just as times begin to become desperate? Can you defend yourself and your home?
Taxes at all levels. All taxation is theft. Government isn’t there to serve us. Government is there to control and loot us. Â At what point does the individual say “I’m not paying any more taxes.” What are they gonna do … sue millions of people? “”We just sold your tax delinquent home on the courthouse steps … you must vacate.” Oh really? Molon Labe, mf. I’m not leaving. Come and get me. Bring body bags because you statist minions are going home in them.
Just how much abuse are we willing to take to avoid seeing the central fact? Which is they will keep tightening the restrictions, keep looting as much of our wealth as we will tolerate … until resistance becomes more than coming online and whining to like minded folk?
I don’t really expect an answer to that last but it’s something each person would be well advised to think through. In as few words as possible, when does enough become enough … for you?
2011 promises to be a very interesting year. My family and I went into a ‘hunkered-down-sustaining-mode on Monday, January 3rd of this year.
Hollywierd and PPV TV doesn’t have anything on reality these days. You couldn’t write a script for what is happening in the world around us.
Please don’t forget lots of popcorm, milk-duds and refreshing beverages for your enjoyment while you kick-back and enjoy the show.
Is that the band that I hear warming up? Quiet down and pay attention now boys and girls! I think that the show is about ready to start. I’m glad that we all have good seats,
PO I think Ross P. commented on that as “that sucking sound” of jobs leaving this country before W got in office. I voted for him……. He was a business man that cared for his family & the future of his grand kids. I believe he scared a few people but I liked his little red boots & stick pony. He had (has) character & a business head.
ANON 6.8: Enough is already enough, and I am not a fan of taxes, but when you consider that a 66% increase in the Illinois state tax represents a change from 3 to 5 percent, it is not a big deal.
There are some states with little or no state income taxes. In Arizona the lowest rate (I think) is 11%. Not that I want to pay that, mind you.
Times are tough and things are bad, but things also need to be put into perspective. A 66% rise in the Illinois state tax, though accurate, is fear mongering if anyone thinks the sky is falling because of that.
A 1% state income tax in Nevada, (and I think Texas) would represent a 100% increase in the state income tax! Break out the militia and stack your loaded magazines! 🙂
These financial problems at the state and local level represent a GREAT opportunity to take the country back one city, one county, one state at a time. Get busy!
Slow motion melt up.
Bea and GA Mom……start a commune…..just like in the 60’s….. so cool.
The govt will have their eyes on you for sure. After the branch dividians in Waco all groups have been viewed as nut jobs.
Comments…..Durango Kid are you for real? For what reason do you want to keep enabling these losers? I got news for you, Anon 6.8 has it pegged exactly. Stop feeding the monkeys and they’ll stop coming up to the bars with their bottom lip and hands stuck out. What are they gonna do, arrest us all or eat us? At what point will you think, ok, they got their last bit.
I have been following Gerald Celente since 2008. I enjoy listening to him as I think he is very intelligent, I do however think he missed the boat on the stock market crash prediction for 2010. I think that this whole mess might be able to get prolonged for sometime because I see no end to the printing press. As long as there will be bailouts there will be people clinging on to hope and life as usual.
If the republicans put a complete stop to the printing press then the collapse will hit.
The only other option for a collapse is continued spending and growing debt until people wake up and realize that its impossible to pay off.
What a show! How many were transported there to clap! Bring on the band. Politics. Somebody needs a haircut. I am Mexican….. Cue the whistles. No medicine…. It is all sacred. Chin up #1. Wave the eagle feathers. I’m getting sic.
I can see my brothers at arms are here in force today! Hello boys! Oh how I wish we all lived on the same country block (mile square) here in my state. But, alas, we have to maintain OpSec.
Durango, never thought of it that way. Take them back one at a time. How would that work? Hey! It could start with an honest, constitutional minded sheriff and go from there.
NetRanger: We all have to get involved, block by freaking block. Let me quote that Liberal of Liberals, Tip O”Neill:
 “All politics are local!”
Hey GA Mom….
Get your camping setup in order..have bugout bags ready.
Maybe buy some land a few hours outside the city. Put in a “Family safety room vault” like we saw in the movie the Road. Hid it well. I’ve been thinking about this approach for my kid before I die. If they ever need to open it…. it would be filled to the gills with tool, and food, guns ammo silver and such. Secrecy would be key…further….make it so they’d have to dig down about a foot to find it. Place a nice cement something near it that cannot be moved…so they will be able to find it. My thoughts…in time China will attack. They have too many people to feed. You could always rent your house. The way I see it if we live in a World without Rule of Law (WROL) the gangs better worry…I’m going “hunting”. It will be militia time…my deer gun is finely tuned to shoot low pants! Know what I mean?  (Not a racial statement) (Folks who never worked a day in their life and want to do harm to my family…we’ll get them first.) The folks that would make up neighborhood militia are salt of the earth folks who are used to working in a team. Further, our resources are far better than the two clips some gang-banger has. We have ammo safes. Don’t worry Mom….we got your back. Just remember…there’s alot of pent up frustration with the gangs…I look forward to this shit. Regards. Somewhere in America in a city near you.
Sung to the tune of COPS…
Hey gang banger, what ya gonna do when the militia is coming for you.Â
What exciting times those will be.  They might have hand guns…we have rifles….they won’t even get close. We’ll just open fire on boom cars.Â
As for the elite…you’ll never make it out of your bunkers. Banker bastards.Â
@Tony
I think Gerald may have just underestimated how strong the manipulation is, and I think he may just have been a bit too soon with his prediction. Â I think he is right, they are running out of scams, and another crash is inevitable unfortunately. Â That will just be another chance for things to be done right. Â There is no such thing as “too big to fail”, it is not the governments job to “bail out” anyone, period! Â The next crash will be another chance to reset everything, take the less easy out, no bailouts or QE’s, just sound spending cuts, sticking to a budget, and investing in the foundation of america, instead of just paying off the PE. Â Unfortunately, delaying the collapse is all every politician is working for, making sure that it doesn’t happen on their watch. Â What they do or don’t realize is that this stalling tactic is just making the collapse that much more painful, long-lasting, and consuming. Â The longer it is delayed, the fewer who will be spared from its raw power and wrath.
Comments…..this guy is a nutcake
Comments…..
This is very important –spread them everywhere–email your ostrich-headed friends and family..your church member…your co-workers.    Â
It’s not us exposing this move for our demise–it’s a pastor.
The plans of the NEW WORLD ORDER to de-populate the world:
Lindsey Williams Returns: Confessions of an Elitist
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_YYTa075NJg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=638nMiYo … re=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0CXi1C6v7Gw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7aw8-3J2t6Q
a 66% increase in the Illinois state tax represents a change from 3 to 5 percent, all the businesses will pass that down to the consumer, it will add up to much more than a 2% increase in income taxes, much more.
The prices for most things are already 10-15% higher in Illinois than in the surrounding states.
For many people this tax increase will be a big burden, unless of course they don’t buy anything, shut off the power and don’t use the water.
Thanks Clark. It seems nobody can get it through thier head that the consumer pays ALL the taxes.
Well childrens…
I live in Indiana but work in Illinois (I live on the state line). I can tell you that EVERYTHING in Illinois is more expensive. Illinois taxes the hell out of EVERYTHING and yet is still a bankrupt state. The cost of living in Indiana and everything else for that matter is much cheaper than Illinois. Unfortunately for me I have to pay Illinois state tax due to working in the state. The gas tax alone makes gas in Illinois $.20 more per gallon between the two states. What I pay for premium gas per gallon in Indiana is what it cost’s for regular unleaded in Illinois.
Indiana has a budget surplus 1.33 billion and that’s without state tax increases.
@ GA Mom: (and everyone else in that boat) If you think the S is about to HTF, why wouldn’t getting the acerage and buildings in place be more important than a perceived loss of “value”? It’s at the point where it’s your life or the money. Keep sitting on that house and when it hits and the Horde is at the door, you can keep thinking “but I would have lost the MONEY!”
That lost value is not coming back. Move on to what will keep you safe and alive. The psychology of previous investment will get a lot of people killed.
Hi all,
Something is being discussed in Greek alternative media, that the government is about to forbid private gardens, and the gathering wild herbs such as tea or chamomile.
Are you aware about something similar in U.S.?
Manos
@ NOYB
“…That lost value is not coming back. Move on to what will keep you safe and alive. The psychology of previous investment will get a lot of people killed…”
History shows us your comments ring true. Pre-holocaust, there was a window of opportunity when some European Jews used their gold and silver or barter goods to escape the countries at risk. Then, there were those Jews that remained in harms way because a family member couldn’t or wouldn’t leave their home or part with their possessions. So, the whole family remained. We know what the consequences were.
History does repeat itself. I see us with similar decisions to make. Many of the excellent comments posted here show folks are weighing and measuring the what to do’s.  Though I’ve done a reasonable job of prepping, in the still of the night, those thoughts pop up whether the right choices have and are being made. Is it enough and the what ifs. It’s like playing a game of Whack a Mole  – every time you hit one down, another pops up.
Comments….. Was listening to WSJ in the morning, and the commentator said to expect higher prices for wheat, corn, and dairy very soon. Celente is right that they have run out of schemes. So what if the US defaults, that seems to be the norm. That’s probably the best way to go IMHO. Let the Chicoms eat cake.
“The world will soon wake up to the reality that everyone is broke and can collect nothing from the bankrupt, who are owed unlimited amounts by the insolvent, who are attempting to make late payments on a bank holiday in the wrong country, with an unacceptable currency, against defaulted collateral, of which nobody is sure who holds title.” Author unknown
In the spring and summer is when Americans will notice that prices are sky high. Many analyst see oil at $5.25 at years end. Can you imagine what food prices will be like? The revolutions that are coming Europe are going to be left wing and right wing. Nationalism is on the rise in Europe and communism is on the rise as well. 2011 is going to be an interesting year.
Corn & beans are on a tear again this morning. $7 corn & $15 soon? What do you think the cost is going to be when it hits your pantry?
Comments…..
Prices Soar on Crop Woes
U.S. Cuts Global Grain Supply Outlook; Higher Prices Expected at Grocery Stores
By SCOTT KILMAN And LIAM PLEVEN
Evidence of tightening global food supplies grew as the U.S. Agriculture Department cut its estimates for global harvests of key crops and raised some demand forecasts, adding to worries about rising food prices.
Prices of corn and soybeans leapt 4% Wednesday and wheat gained 1%, continuing the broad rally in commodity prices that began in June. With yesterday’s gains, prices of corn futures contracts are now up 94% from their June lows; soybeans are up 51% and wheat is up 80%.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704803604576077751817700340.html?mod=WSJ_hp_LEFTWhatsNewsCollection
Anybody shrink wrap their windows for winter? I heard that Florida is the only state without the white stuff. I have a gas stove that I put a LARGE pot of water with a shot of vinegar on every evening. Keeps the whole house humid & warm. Can convert over to propane in short notice. Generators are tri-fuel also with quick disconnect hose & transfer box. realacpower.com has a large generator that latches up to a diesel truck with a PTO for the ultimate. Never under estimate a high quality small tri-fuel generator that can drive just the essential with a 50% load. Keep warm everyone. Stock up on charcoal for cooking during the summer. Have you noticed the prices going up on that last summer?
I’m going to have to get me a medicine man that waves feathers & he’ll make everything & everybody feel better that is going to college in the South West. Hmmmm, juicy fruit. How! Where’s my purple skittles?
Â
Comments…..
Expect your meters (if you have them) to be leased/sold soon…I read in my old state Tennesse, Nashville SOLD the meters to China ..they wanted the metal!!!
http://thenewspaper.com/news/33/3326.asp
Indianapolis, Indiana followed in the footsteps on Chicago, Illinois by deciding on Monday to sell its parking meters to a private company — a decision that has proved highly controversial in the Windy City. The vote was a close one.
Comments…..
~~~Indiana has a budget surplus 1.33 billion and that’s without state tax increases~~~
Then why this notice??
First 11 states pension funds that collapse..
Illinois, Conn., Indiana, N.J., Hawaii, Louisiana, Oklahoma, Kansas, Kentucky, New Hampshire….
Think they’re keeping secrets to keep the crowd from rioting??
Â
Comments…..
Anonymous …I didn’t use shrink wrap—but I used those painter dropcloths from dollar general  @ $1….and it is amazing what that did for my rooms with the large windows…I recommend the shring wrap and for those who can’t afford that…plastic dropcloth…it does make a difference.
ANON: I am not quite sure what you are saying. Could you put that in coherent English so I can respond?
To someone who lives in a state with much higher state income taxes, moving the state income tax in Ill to 5% from 3% to avoid state “bankruptcy” seems like a reasonable choice.
The alternative would be for the financial markets to rate Ill bonds as “junk” and have the residents of the state be forced to pay 16 to 18% interest to investors.
A 2% increase in the state income tax which is significantly lower than most other states, as compared to paying 16-18% on their bonds is a “no-brainer”.
Where’s yours?
My home area doesn’t have much of a winter compared to many of you. I note well what you advise in the “you can do this too” department.
Decided last week it was easier to heat me than this large home. Turned the thermostats back to “just enough to keep the pipes from freezing” temperature. Thermal underwear and wool attire are much cheaper than paying hundreds of dollars a month to utility companies. However those who have to appease spouses or kinder may get out voted.
About tax rates … ALL taxation is theft. Ya might wanna look at larkenrose’s blog The 861. He taunted the IRS into prosecuting him. Defended himself, did a year and a half in a countryclub Federal pen. Just because gov agents from the IRS GS-9 who arrested him to the Fed judge who convicted him agree with government theft doesn’t make him wrong.
Government isn’t our friend. Its only purpose vis a vis the hoi polloi is to control and loot us. It serves the PE. It continues to exist via deception, theft and murder. Arguing tax rates is like saying Billy the Kid is a hero because he let you keep a silver dollar or two when he stole yer payroll.
The other alternative,.. could there be more than Only two choices?
Iceland found a way.
State “bankruptcy†seems like The reasonable choice.
Increasing the income tax 2% does not bridge the gap, it’s another kick the can movement.
Whatever else they do, the effects will likley fall hardest on those with less while the upper classes look down and say, “it ain’t so bad” That sure is a recipe for growth and tranquility going forward.
ANON 6.8: Agree with all you say, but debating tax theory and dealing with financial reality is two different things.
The financial reality is, if Illinois goes “bankrupt” the taxpayers there will pay far more to investors to buy their “junk” bonds than they would to accept a 2% increase in state income taxes.
To add insult to injury and compound the folly, if the increase is not instituted, after bankruptcy, in addition to paying the “junk bond returns” to investors, the taxpayers of Illinois would then be facing an even higher state income tax to pay the higher costs.
Stupid is as stupid does.
All the more reason that Patriots must become active in local politics, because all politics are local. If you oppose taxes, start a group block by block to cut local government spending.
Manos…S510 …THE FOOD SAFETY ACT as they like to call it is basicly the US version of that idea.
NAIS (animal ID ) is part of it,this after a half decade battle in which we defeated USDA/FDA on it,but like the health care law they just rammed it through anyhow.
Codex is included in this law and will attempt to make America into a european type mess,basicly it will give the govt power to regulate vitaminas and natural suppliments out of existance,and/or tax them to death.
The language of this bill was kept so vague as to allow the govt regulaters wide latitude in interpreting and enforcing it.knowing that govt always takes as much as it can get and more I see dire days ahead for people just trying to eat,
hopefully the govt has bitten off something that will bite them back and people will rebel bigtime!
Just because they make a law doesnt mean I/we plan to obey…right? 😉
Instead of issuing MORE debt to pay for MORE government let’s do this. The technology exists for a registered voter referendum. Between the cable companies, the telephone companies and the internet companies the technology exists for a direct referendum. As is done in much less populous, as prosperous and more free Switzerland.
Good Citizens of Illinois: On February 28 we your rulers will give you a choice of 4 actions you instruct us to take. Example, close the Illinois Dept of (fill in the blank) in its entirety. Fire the workers. Auction the equipment.
IF there is no agreement, or no clear majority, we will triple your income taxes and double your sales taxes. Every tax and fee you pay for government services will go up at least 100 %. Fellow citizens. Childhood is over. The Tooth Fairy doesn’t exist. Neither does the free lunch. You can’t have both unlimited public services and low taxes.
Your favorite hobby is bitching about government. OK. Here’s your chance to exercise a direct choice. What we have is unsustainable. It cannot continue.
So instead of paying for more government, how about selecting to have less government? [or better yet, no government] The entitlement crowd will whine. The public employee unions will howl. The politicians will be aghast (we can’t buy their votes by promising them more give aways … boo hoo hoo).
To those groups I say tough. The days of government as parasite  and parasite feeder are about to end. We can make it a selected and relatively soft fall. Or we can make it a “forced into it by necessity” fall with many of you sustaining compound fractures in the process.
DK, that’s what I’d do.
…a registered voter referendum. Good idea.
“The burden of Iceland’s debts on its taxpayers could be a fraction of previous estimates after it emerged that most of the bill could be paid from the sale of assets…”
http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2010/jan/07/iceland-president-warns-uk-government
“The entitlement crowd will whine. The public employee unions will howl. The politicians will be aghast…”
Ha, The American Monkey Can’t Let Go
“Here we have our politics in a paragraph. The American national monkey can’t let go. The party is over, boys and girls, but we aren’t going to adapt.”
http://www.lewrockwell.com/reed/reed195.html
ANON 6.8: Yes alot of good ideas come out of Switzerland, where everyman is a soldier, and the government buys their ar’s and ammo. Drug users are registered and receive their doses from government registered clinics on a daily basis. It lowers crime, and eliminates the profit motive for illicit drugs. That seems to work for them, whether it could work for US I don’t know. A pilot program should be tried in say, NYC.
Reductions in government is the GREAT opportunity that lies at the root of our financial problems: eliminate programs like subsidized housing, and subsidies and food stamps for Illegals would be a big taxsaver especially for Illinois.Â
50% of ALL hispanic families get food stamps or some kind of government assistance, yet they keep having kids they can not afford to feed, clothe, or educate. That is just plain stupid, unless of course WE pay for it. That must end.
After we eliminate unnecessary government, then we can take back our cities and counties and states, one at a time as they hit the “wall” like Illinois.
The sign says, Free steak & Free Beer!
Who wouldn’t want that?
If I wanted to give steak & beer away, that’s my business.
If the goberment steals money from me to give away free steaks and beer, that’s theft.
The people standing in line for the goberment steak & beer are somehow or other singled out by some as being a source of problems while others get a free pass, especially the banksters at the top.
The people standing in line for the handouts might or might not be great people, but None of them deserve to be singled out while the original theft is encouraged or ignored for the sake of others still standing in line.
Subsidized housing, other subsidies and food stamps should be eliminated for Everyone, not just some, and it should be done by the removal of the original theft which pays for it all. That is the only remedy that will truly make a difference.
The younger people may recognize this while the older generations don’t, mostly because it is the younger generations who will have to pay the most while the older generations take some too, and besides, the older generations already got theirs… Maybe that’s what Celente was talking about?
“We” don’t need to, “take back” cities, counties and states.
Individually people will be forced by unemployment or simply decide on their own to Opt Out of maintaining the status quo and focus on themselves and their personal networks. The free-market can sort out the rest without empowering yet another “we” to rule us all as “they” think things should be done. That seems to be the nature of the world revolution Celente was talking about.
Anyone who thinks enough people can “opt out of maintaining the status quo” to turn the country around is a fool.
Democracy only works when its citizens are engaged with it. Citizens who are not engaged with their government will be enslaved by it. That is why we are where we are at.
To ignore reality doesn’t make it go away. It only exacerbates the problem.
Illegal aliens are parasites and invaders who are tools of the gangster banksters to destroy the middle class to move US toward a NAU and NO US Constitution to protect US AT ALL!
SHTF Illegal Immigration
I’m wrestling with the problem of how, exactly, we got into this mess that Gerald talks about. Help me out here, Gerald.
As I see it, we had this genius Sir Alan (an EXPERT on the Great Depression) administer “Death by 1000 Cuts” (interest rate cuts) to America, launching the greatest RE (Asset) Bubble ever known to mankind, right? Now Sir Alan is no slouch or DUMMY when it comes to macro-economics and Depressions, right? So the rest of us all stood around and said: “You GENIUS, Alan – whatever you’re doing, it MUST be good for the economy and America!” Bush was so impressed, he re-appointed Alan and gave him some kinda medal, even, right? Next thing you know, America is in it up to our eyeballs.
Good time for Alan to retire! Good time for Mises to be remembered, right?
So along comes this other GENIUS, Whirly Ben, another highly educated economist and EXPERT on the Great Depression. Sounds familiar, right? I mean, this guy is NO DUMMY either, right? So what does he do to bail America out of the “mess”, created by his Mentor? Yup, he launches us into QE, bail-out of the “Too Big To Fail” Banks and AIG, etc. – and now, QEII, right? In other words, he tries to “save” the American economy from SKY-HIGH DEBT by pushing us into Astronomical DEBT, right?
Here’s my predicament. These highly educated (PhDs from America’s finest universities) EXPERTS on the Great Depression are NO DUMMIES! So WHY did they do what they did (and are STILL doing it) and WHY did Bush and Obama re-appoint them when it was OBVIOUS that their policies were (are) leading America into the ABYSS, eh?
So, if these guys are NO DUMMIES, they musta done what they did INTENTIONALLY, right? – and, why did nobody blow their brains out (fire them, in other words) when it became OBVIOUS (like a few years ago) that they were DESTROYING the American economy – ON PURPOSE?
Help me out here, Gerald!
And YES, I have an MBA from UCLA in Real Estate and General Mgmt. and got an A+ in macro-economics – so I’m not exactly a DUMMY, either! 🙂
What am I missing, Gerald? (or anyone). Why are these criminals not hanging from the nearest tree?
And do these 2 criminals have anything in common (Lowest Common Denominator) with folks like: Silverstein (“PULL IT”), Zakheim (“lost” 2.3 Pentagon Trillion), Feith, Perle, Abramovitz (NeoCONS who pushed Bush into illegal “wars”), Hellerstein (NO 911 Court cases), Guiliani (friend of Silverstein and 911 “Trash Man”), “Rahmbo” (Irgun terrorist family in Israel and Obama WH Chief-of-Staff), and a whole bunch of other Israeli/American dual citizens, CLOSELY connected to 911, AIPAC, the “Israel Lobby”, etc.???
Is is so hard to CONNECT THESE DOTS? (I didn’t think so!) 😉
God Send: It wasn’t hard for me to connect all of these dots either, and I thought I was preaching here, to the choir. But there are a few here that do not understand the reality; they just know they need to prep!
Then there are a few who believe they should do nothing, as if THAT would make a difference. They are powerless because they refuse to accept their power and/or exercise it. Pathetic!
Sadly, there are too many Americans that fall into that category, refuse to see the forset for the trees and want “george” to do it. Well, George did it all right and implemented his daddy’s NWO by shipping 42,400 factories offshore.
You are surprised that some of these traitors are not hanging from a tree? I am surprised that 20 million Americans on food stamps (deduct 20 million illegals) haven’t marched on Washington DC, surrounded Congress, and set fire to the building with the occupants inside!
For one thing, DuhRanGo Kidd, it’s a Republic, not a democracy, where did you go to school? Majority-mob-rules-U?
The Republic stands because the people support it.
What does the Republic stand for these days, Empire and nothing else?
If the people refuse to, or are unable to support it, it collapses.
Opting Out is not ignoring reality, it is embracing reality.
Opting Out is sooo unlike what people have been doing in the past.
Opting Out is Not doing nothing, it Is doing something!
Opting Out is refusing to continue to support the way things are in a way that makes a difference, by closing the checkbook and refusing to help keep the boot on the neck of the little guy.
Illegal aliens Are Human Beings!
If anyone is the tool, it’s you.
Illegal aliens are the Least of our problems!
Your continued focus on them is pathetic and reflects that you don’t seem to love liberty Or freedom much.
Who gives a crap about their immigration status, it is meaningless. The money that is stolen from the people of America is what needs to be cut off,… at the source.
The banksters are legal as all get out, but they still steal from Main Street, obviously national status has no bearing on criminality. The court system is full of legal prosecutors who commit perjury, what difference does legality make, they still break the laws and get away with it.
The path you encourage is nothing but a cram down of a worse police state upon us all, why do you cheer for that?
As long as people support the continuation of theft, nothing will change, didn’t you read the link, The American Monkey Can’t Let Go? The monkey needs help letting go, support needs to be withdrawn in a non-violent peaceful way, a.k.a. Opting Out.
GodSend asked, “how, exactly, we got into this mess that Gerald talks about.”
People refuse to Opt Out.
For selfish reasons.
For misguided reasons.
And they’re ok with theft.
They could refuse to Opt Out because what it cost them to do so was not great.
The younger people will be paying a much heavier price not to Opt Out, this will be a motivation unlike any other, this is The Fourth Turning.
Things Will Be different going forward.
Support Will Be withdrawn, hopefully in a non-violent peaceful way by simply Opting Out. However, those who love Empire will not let them go without throwing a fit.
Support Might be given to state nullification drives, that is up in the air as many states are no different than the national scene.
Time will tell.
An example of a successful Opting Out is the U.S. Post Office, more and more people refuse to use it and it is going the way of the dodo bird.
The free-market is better.
Opting Out from the fallacy that there are differences between the Republicans and the Democrats is the next step for many.
Durango Kidd, my money is on a GREAT AWAKENING taking place in America – already in progress. There may be some attempts by the Feds to “snuff out” the Internet or selected, “terrorist” websites BUT conditions (economic, financial, political corruption, municipal and state bankruptcies, etc.) will get SO bad that a revolution (a la Tunisia) will become INEVITABLE. The FEMA camps will become fully occupied (SRO) with domestic “terrorists” (aka patriotic Americans who are “Mad as Hell – and are NOT going to take it anymore). Opting in or Opting out will become academic. In a revolution, people are dragged into the maelstrom, like it or not. It would be nice, however, that when TSHTF, the GUILTY will be hanged FIRST. We know who THEY are! – WELL, SOME OF US KNOW. 😉
Good night, Irene!
Clark: You are right about some things. One, Illegals are human beings. However, they are not American citizens, they are nationals of a foreign power and tools of the NWO; parasite and invaders not entitled to the benefits of being here illegally: who Obummer and the global fascists want to make “new Americans” to vote in a referendum to dissolve the US Constitution and impose the NAU on US.
Second, people are opting out of the post office. People are “opting out” of the US Postal Service because of technology. Its called email! Its not a passive aggressive form of civil disobedience and the USPS uses Fedex to deliver some mail so people mail their overnight that way.
Agree about the gangster banksters but the theft of our treasury is but one aspect of the war against US by the PTB. I do not advocate violence that would bring down a polic state. I do not fear my police or military. I advocate Americans to get involved in their government because WE are the gpovvernment unless those like you are willing to roll over and take the green weenie.
I’m not.
I DO believe that those 10-20 million illegal aliens are helping to suck America dry – of blood and treasure, particularly California, Arizona, New Mexico and Texas (and that is NO ACCIDENT!). It’s another piece of The Puzzle that falls nicely into place, and it certainly isn’t “good for America”. There are, of course, BIGGER pieces of The Puzzle that require our immediate attention.
Clark: America is an ideal, perfect in principle, imperfect in practice; because cowards are afraid to speak out, stand up, and be counted when those who would repeal our rights (like gun control), steal our money, invade our nation, transfer American production off shore, and try to limit free speech attempt to take advantage of US.
It does surprise me that you do not see the threat posed to US by Illegals. They cost more than $300 billion every year. that is enough to pay for social security, medicare, and fund our retirement accounts. Why spend it on FOREIGNERS?
As long as we have the ballot, there is no need for bullets; but we must demand the political and economic justice to which we are entitled.
“the benefits of being here”
“$300 billion every year. that is enough to pay for social security, medicare, and fund our retirement accounts”
All funded by Theft – pure and simple – from the taxpayers and everyone else.
It is Not, “we” the people, it is, America’s Ruling Class —
http://spectator.org/archives/2010/07/16/americas-ruling-class-and-the/print
You do not fear the police & the military?
Psft, spend some time at http://www.freedominourtime.blogspot.com/
And consider this:
“You haven’t done anything – but you’re in trouble because of what you might do.”
http://www.lewrockwell.com/peters-e/peters-e12.1.html
“get involved in their government”?
That was the whole point of, The American Monkey Can’t Let Go
There is No changing goberment. You can Only Opt Out.
“At some point, bond investors are going to move toward the stairwell. You had better get there in front of them.”
http://www.lewrockwell.com/north/north931.html
It does not surprise me that you and so many others do not see the threat posed to US by the continued theft of the wealth of every American individual to fund the giant ponzi scheme and instead blame those at the bottom. However; I’m disappointed.
“political and economic justice”?
There is no justice, there is no rule of law.
Everyone’s Role: To Be a Rube,… or not to be
Durango kidd,
The thing about illegals is happening globally. Europe is facing a weird wave of thousands, mostly muslims, from Pakistan, Afghanistan, former Soviet republics, and whatever.
We don’t have the means to protect ourselves, and the government is doing nothing to stop this entry.
A week ago, three robbers entered a house in a village in northern Greece. The owner, a senior citizen of 85 y.o., cocked his shotgun and shot a couple of buckshots. He wounded two of them.
The outcome? After they were hospitalized, they pressed charges against the old man and the old man was arrested. Yesterday he was released with a fine being paid, and directions to give back the gun and the lisence.
After that, what we can expect?
Manos
clark
Of course the illegal aliens in America are people. There are about 6 billion people on the planet! What, do you suppose, Israel would do if 10-20 million Semites (Arabs) from neighboring countries “invaded” Israel? Would they build settlements for them and give them free medical care and food stamps? OK, they might induct them all into the IDF and use them for cannon fodder.
Illegal aliens are ILLEGAL entrants into America. That’s enough justification to send them back where they came from. The “Israel Lobby” (Democratic Liberals) is trying to DESTROY America (like Greenspan & Bernanke, et al). Illegal alien amnesty is just one plank in that platform. The GRAND DEPRESSION is another. 911 was another. CONNECT the dots – it’s not all that difficult!
Godsend said, “That’s enough justification to send them back where they came from.”
And how do you suppose this will be done?
A huge crackdown on individual liberty, on freedom, and an intensification of the police state upon all Americans is what we can expect. How does one prepare for that? Practice looking down and saying, yes sir, or be ready to be treated like the old man Manos gave for his example? How is that good for any of us?
What if we just tried liberty instead?
Doing something using government power always yields worse results than doing nothing.
Liberty itself offers the untried path toward peace and prosperity.
If you’re so inclined, have a look at the book, Liberty Defined
http://www.lewrockwell.com/blog/lewrw/archives/75463.html
Manos: Yes I am aware of the Illegal problem in Europe. Its another grand experiemnt that doesn’t work because the cultures are ideologically opposed. Nothing but violence can come of it unless the PTB acknowledge the difference and reverse the flow of people.
SHTF Times had a blurb about Ilegals in Europe in its Preditions:2011 article.
Clark: Don’t waste your time copying and pasting in a response to me. The first and only time I followed a link, you had totally misrepresented the author’s meaning, remember? It you want to debate the uissues fine, but don’t waste my time that way. I’m not going to play that game, again. OK?
The biggest threat posed by illegals is not economic; as big a problem as that is. What you fail to recognize is that these people have no knowledge, understanding, or allegience to America. They want their own country (Mexico) without the exploitation there, and with the opportunities in the USA, and they want US to subsidize them while they do it. They don’t want to be Americans and assimilate into the melting pot. They want to be Mexicans living in America and retain their own language, culture, history, and traditions. Thats why they continue to speak spanish.
The biggest threat is if these invaders are made “new Americans” and given the right to vote in a referendum that would dissolve the US Constitution into the NAU as a prelude to the NWO. This is the goal of the PTB and everything else, including theft, is either a strategy or tatic to make it so.
Connect the dots as God Send has and see the bigger picture: that is the real threat to America and the liberty you espouse.
Clark: I would recommend you read SHTF America: Illegal Immigration to understand what that is all about.
God Send: I too, believe that the “American Awakening” has begun and that the masses will embrace their heritage and reclaim their government.
The PTB can be, and can only be, defeated by the power of the vote; or a guerilla war that would last for decades. If anyone tells you otherwise and encourages anyone to give up, roll over, and accept the big green weenie, that person is a shill for the PTB or the most pathtic loser on the planet.
America belongs to US! Take government back, block by block, village and town, city and state, vote by vote: arrest, prosecute, and convict the guilty. Treason carries its own penalty.
If the PTB take away our ballots, then they need to take our bullets too!
If the PTBÂ dissolve the US Constitution, or impose another set of rules, regulations, and laws over US, in effect, nullifying the US Constitution and the rights inherent to US from nature’s God; then my hope is that every American citizen: man, woman, and child, would rise up armed, determined to eradicte an illegitimate oppresser.Â
I would pray that the word would go forth to every village and town, every city and state, and every man, woman, and child, every patriot, and LEO; every militiaman, military, or oathkeeper, would rise up and execute the the general order of the “That Day”.
Guerilla War!
clark
Repatriating illegal aliens can be done humanely, fairly and without a police state. Each case needs to be considered in a court of law. People are deported all the time. It may take a while, but that’s OK. The important thing is to DISCOURAGE illegal entry into the US and show that offenders will be sent back. Tightening border security is a MUST!
Durango Kidd
I’m afraid we’ve crossed the Rubicon long ago and taking America back through the ballot is no longer possible. Are you familiar with Harold Wallace Rosenthal and “The Hidden Tyranny”? During the interview (1976), Rosenthal made it clear that TPTB will never be defeated with words (the law). FORCE is, unfortunately, necessary.
Remember what Thomas Jefferson said: “The tree of liberty must be watered with the blood of tyrants and patriots.” Personally, I prefer that the blood of tyrants be used exclusively, if at all possible! 😉
Jefferson spoke with wisdom and from personal experience. The American Revolution will have a SEQUEL (American Revolution II).
PS This time, the ENEMY is ‘without’ as well as WITHIN! (as you say, TRAITORS).
God Send: I am not yet ready to believe that we have crossed the Rubicon. (BTW my family tree extends back through JC to JC’s father where the records for Western civilization ends.)
The November 2010 elections showed that we can begin to take control of the national levers of power. That was a first step. I believe that it will take 12 years and six more elections before we clean house; but I believe we will.
The best that we can do in the interim is connect the dots for the sheeple so they understand that these “problems” are deliberate, synchronized, and linked. The majority of the American people don’t have that knowledge yet because the LSM is part of the NWO.
If they did, DC would be burning.
GS: Illegal Immigration can easily be halted. The President gives a TV address from the WH, explains the problems associated with it and orders all Illegals out of the country in 30 days.
Any illegals found within the borders of the USA after 30 days can never hope to emigrate, and will be fined and imprisioned before deportation. Repeat offenders get stiffer sentences. Employers caught using Illegals lose their business license automatically for 90 days. Repeat offenders face stiffer penalties. Six months for a second offense, one year for a third. A fourth conviction terminates the business and the operator from ever doing business as an owner again.
SHTF America: Illegal Immigration has a 12 step solution at the bottom of a long article. if we can secure the South Korean border, we can secure our own. Thats what Americans want.
Hispanic American citizens need to understand that Illegals are taking THEIR jobs, not mine. Suppressing THEIR wages, not mine. Illegals are flooding THEIR neighborhoods with drugs and violence, not mine. Illegals are committing sex crimes and rapes against THEIR daughters, not mine.
When they understand that the economic impact is primarily on them they will repudiate their political leadership who lie to them just as ours do to US.
Comments…..good call…seems simple to me
Durango Kidd
We will all find out before very long exactly how this American drama (Tragedy) will play out. My money says: CAPITULATION (Economic Collapse) in 2011, like Gerald – followed by some radiant pyrotechnics (911-II and Armageddon in 2012). Somewhere in there is martial law, de facto dictatorship and the (short) American Revolution II. All of it falls very appropriately under TSHTF!
The silver lining of this dark Armageddon cloud will be the fulfillment of Ezekiel 22:20. We shall SEE! 😮
Durango Kidd said, “They don’t want to be Americans and assimilate into the melting pot.”
That whole paragraph is exactly what people said about the Germans living in America in the 1800’s and the early 1900’s,… and the Italians, and the Scandinavians and many other groups. Some people never learn from history I guess, or even know the history of their own country for that matter.
Psft, I have a right to speak any dang language I please, who are you to tell me what language I have to speak or culture, history, and traditions I must follow? How very anti-freedom of you.
The survival movement and the whole “prepping” theme is all about Opting Out… self reliance, networking with people you know and peaceably changing what you can change.
I hope other people will read the links I posted and understand there’s more than one way to look at a problem and sometimes solutions are found that way.
Others seem to be locked into the military goose step and refuse, preferring instead to learn the hard way I suppose? Perhaps thinking they can reply on the court system to do something humanely, fairly and without a police state, HA! is that a joke? As if that is even possible, the court system is corrupt, there is no rule of law, only arbitrary rule of men that know only cold hard brute force.
Geez, turning the Texas, Arizona and California borders into militarized zones like the border between the Koreas is considered a good thing? Nothing good will come of that. Already 100 miles inland is considered a Constitution-free zone, and some people like that and want that for the whole country?
“Man is not to be made good by means of the prison guard and the hangman; should they be necessary to make him good, his moral condition is already beyond salvage.”
“…discard the mercantilist myths that pit the prosperity of one people against that of another, the socialist myths that describe the various social classes as mortal enemies, and the interventionist myths that seek prosperity through mutual plunder.”
The Case for Freedom
http://www.lewrockwell.com/woods/woods161.html
I wish that we could get away from all of this racial crap that is starting to show up here. There are good people and there are bad people of all races, creeds, colors and religions. It’s in the make-up of the individual and has absolutely nothing to do with the color of anyone’s skin, where they were born or what religion that they practice.
You had better believe that if my family were going hungry or doing without basic essentials and there was no work for me here in the Unites States, but there was work available to me in Mexico, that I would be going swimming tonight or walking across the desert headed to where the work was.
The elites and the PTB love it when we fight amongst ourselves. If we are busy fighting each other, then we aren’t fighting back against their control and oppression.
Just one old redneck’s thoughts on the subject.
Mad Markie: Illegal immigration isn’t about race. Only the racists play the race card in this argument to distract from the real issues.
Illegal immigration is about the sovereignty of the USA and economics, plain and simple. I know the hispanic American community here in Arizona INTIMATELY, so I know wherof I speak.
I do not blame the Mexicans that want to be here. I blame our government for allowing them to be here to our physical and financial detriment; and more so to the hispanic American community than to the white community.
But the biggest risk by far is to our sovereignty, as the goal of the NWO is to destroy America and illegal Immigration is but one tool in their arsenal to do that.
Clark: Language, culture, and shared history is what defines a people and makes a nation. Otherwise China and Russia with a very long border between them would be one entity. Other examples like that are everywhere.
That you would subscribe to an idea that the land one hundred miles on either side of the border is “Constitution free”really tells me and everyone else here where your head is at. The US Constitution governs every freaking square inch of the USA. Anyone that crosses that border without permission of the American people is a trespasser and a threat, and ought to be arrested: at a minimum.
Durango Kidd, you often sound like a Keynesian nationalist socialist, you spout their ideas, knowingly or not. I hope you can cross over.
Don’t be bullheaded, read my links, all of them.
Regretfully, the US Constitution Does Not govern every freaking square inch of the USA:
Constitution Free Zone – Map
http://www.aclu.org/constitution-free-zone-map
The Regime’s Heroic Border Guards in Action
http://www.lewrockwell.com/blog/lewrw/archives/44651.html
I’m not the only one:
http://stevescomments.wordpress.com/2009/04/24/100-mile-homeland-security-enforced-constitution-free-zone/
Immigration, United States Citizens, and Freedom
http://www.fr33agents.com/1890/immigration-united-states-citizens-and-freedom/
“If the current generation of Americans does not challenge this creeping (and sometimes galloping) expansion of federal powers over the individual through the rationale of “border protection,†we are not doing our part to keep alive the rights and freedoms that we inherited, and will soon find that we have lost some or all of their right to go about their business, and travel around inside their own country, without interference from the authorities.”
http://globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=10665
“…What makes America great — what has always made America great — are its civil society, its relatively free markets, its respect for civil liberties. It is these qualities that allow ethnic groups that fight constant bloody battles in other regions of the world not only to coexist in harmony, but also to make each other wealthier and better off through the wonders of market exchange. It is the principles of freedom that allowed America to rise quickly from a third-world country to become the wealthiest nation in the world. It is the individual liberty that once made America unique and allowed the country to trade and interact peacefully with the world, set a good example to other countries as a nation of peace and freedom, inspire revolution and liberation around the globe, develop the principles of abolitionism and equality under the law during the late 18th century, and impel millions to come to America or work to make their own countries more like ours.
What always made America great was not what the government did: it was indeed what the government didn’t do. It didn’t disarm its population, treat the citizenry as property of the state, extract high percentages from their income, wage imperial wars around the world, despotically search and seize private property without due process, attempt to run the economy, circumvent the free choices of individuals, jail people without trial, create thousands of regulations and laws against peaceful behavior, or interfere with the freedom of people to speak and worship.”
“…throughout its early history, America was great to the extent that the government was limited, and kept out of people’s affairs. America was tarnished and bloodied to the extent that government grew and gained power.
The same is true today, when we have a much larger government than even the least libertarian Founding Fathers would have ever imagined or desired. To the extent that America is now great, it is because of what government doesn’t do, not what it does.
And today’s nationalists are not cheering on America when they cheer on the police-warfare state and lash out at its critics. They are cheering on Amerika — the nationalized, bureaucratized, militarized version of our country. Whether or not they know it, they seek to destroy the real America with a totalitarian replacement. The choice is between a free America and a nationalist Amerika. We cannot have both.”
Amerika Ãœber Alles vs. America, Land of the Free
http://www.lewrockwell.com/gregory/gregory45.html
When people say, “I blame our government for allowing them to be here to our physical and financial detriment” they should realize the focus should be on the process that allows… That is, theft.
The free market and property rights can solve all our other difficulties, after all, it is what made America great.
God Send: There is NO economic collapse in 2011, sorry to disappoint you and others. 2012? Maybe, its too early to tell. But if it does come it won’t be triggered by QE2, 2, or 4.
No profit in it. Doomsday will come eventually, but not this year.
Clark:Â I am all for personal liberty and the demise of federal powers. Neither am I opposed to ethnic groups existing harmoniously; as long as they respect the same rules, regulations, and laws that I have to live by.
You sound like a global socialist that wants to provide American jobs and benefits to foreigners at the expense of the American taxpayer, and open the border to Mexico. Not gonna happen.
Its time for American workers, taxpayers, and families to benefit first. Mexicans need to get in line: and that line starts in Mexico. It ends at the US border. If they cross that line they have broken the law and need to pay the price.
No free food. No free beer. No free lunch!
“need to get in line”?
And I”M The Socialist??? Psft, from the links I’ve provided and the quotes I’ve posted, it is clear that it is your ideas that are socialist in nature, again, please read the links!
I agree with the no free rides idea, btw. There should be no free rides unless it is a voluntary situation between consenting individuals, something the goberment does not agree with.
I am an American who believes in the free-market, freedom, liberty, the pursuit of happiness and the right to private property, the links that I’ve posted support this notion, your words do not.
“…provide American jobs and benefits to [everyone except illegals] at the expense of the American taxpayer”
The gifts of theft keep on giving and giving?
Do you like Paul Krugman too?
Durango Kidd said, “I am all for personal liberty and the demise of federal powers.”
Your words do not reflect this, they are counter to these ideas.
“the feeling that one has little control over his own destiny may lead to attempts to restore oneself as an active agent. This may involve attacking those who appear to be influencing and controlling the individual.”
“What the state’s increasing resort to coercion will do, however, is to further expand the sense of frustration people experience in their efforts to promote their self-interests. As economic dislocations continue to spread; as wars against the rest of the world widen the paths of destruction; as individual lives are subjected to more expansive and sophisticated police-state surveillance and intrusions; as men and women experience an ever-diminishing sense of the material and emotional quality of their lives; the resulting frustrations will produce more aggressive reactions.
As a result of institutionalized conditioning, we have grown up with certain expectations of the political system. Among these are lies such as that government exists to protect our lives and other property interests; that the state is necessary for the creation and maintenance of social order; and that we – the ordinary people – control it. In recent years, men and women have gotten fleeting glimpses of the man behind the curtain, and are beginning to see through the fraud and deception that has long been practiced upon them. There is a growing awareness that the system does not serve its avowed purposes, thus producing a frustration of expectations which, in turn, produces more aggression…”
In Defense of Clear Thinking
http://www.lewrockwell.com/shaffer/shaffer228.html
Durango Kidd
Keep your eyes peeled for a Black Swan event in 2011. Remember that the American Gov’t and several Banks Too Big to Fail are technically BANKRUPT and have already failed. The Global Financial System is being held together by Hot Air, blowing out of the orifices of the ALIEN RACE at the speed of sound! 😉 One more straw on the camel’s back and all hell will break loose – like in Tunisia. 😮
PS The JOLT will likely come from the “Hand of God”.
Good night, Irene.
I don’t think anyone can predict what will go down, nor can you really trully prepare. You can have all the guns/ammo, food and shelter and it still isn’t enough. How will you react when someone knocks on your door, when the first round flys through your shelter, when people from your own group turn on you, the scenerios go on and on….
Only the sharpest and most ruthless minds will survive a true hardcore scenerio….
Clark: Yes, Mexicans need to get in line and that line starts in Mexico. That line is the line for LEGAL immigration. Nothing “socialist” about that. If you walk into a bank or a restaurant you get in line and wait your turn. Nothing even political about that; its just good manners.
Don’t quote me out of context and insert your meaning into it.
Yesterday you called me a “National Socialist” or Nazi. I have to laugh. That tactic is not going to work here, it is a page out of Keith (MSNBC) Oberman’s book. When he cannot win the debate on the merits of the argument he calls anyone on the right that opposes him a Nazi.
The commenters that read and post here know who I am and what I stand for; and they are also discovering what you stand for. You can only copy and post so much, eventually you have to say something and when you do, it tells all of US, all about you.
 Mexican personal liberties end where the US Border begins, unless they have a valid visa.
>Yesterday you called me a “National Socialist†or Nazi. I have to laugh. That tactic is not going to work here
Do you believe that people here own private land?
Or is all land owned by the nation?
Dr Acula: How ya doing today? You and I have had this discussion before. No need to rehash it again. You should probably commiserate with Clark as I am sure you two have much in common.
Ok, Doc, I’ll play your game. Give it your best shot, but I have to go to a Martin Luther King Jr birthday party, so make it quick.
Land in America is owned by both private landowners and by government land owners. And No, your rancher friend does not have the right to host Illegals. Next question. No the border does exist and its intent is to define the boundaries of the American people and to separate distinct people, each from the other.
Next?
To the guy who mentioned Al Gore in a previous post….let me tell you this…Al Gore doesnt just look like an alien. He IS an alien. That nut job called Al Gore is in serious need of a mental health care check up for his continued rants on global warming, when we have more serious threats than that, around us.
Durango Kidd, your interpretations about being quoted out of context are incorrect.
It is your words that have defined you as having socialist tendencies and your constant thrust of nationalism is quite evident.
Why We’re a Divided Nation
“Most of the issues that divide our nation, and give rise to conflict, are those best described as a zero-sum game where one person’s or group’s gain is of necessity another’s loss. Examples are: racial preferences, school prayers, trade restrictions, welfare, Obamacare and a host of other government policies that benefit one American at the expense of another American. That’s why political action committees, private donors and companies spend billions of dollars lobbying. Their goal [and people like Durango Kidd] is to get politicians and government officials to use the coercive power of their offices to take what belongs to one American and give it to another or create a favor or special privilege for one American that comes at the expense of some other American.
…If there were a catastrophic economic calamity, I can imagine a political hustler exploiting those frailties, as have other tyrants, blaming it on the Jews, the blacks, the conservatives, the liberals, the Catholics or free trade.
The best thing the president and Congress can do to reduce the potential for conflict and violence is reduce the impact of government on our lives. Doing so will not only produce a less-divided country and greater economic efficiency, but bear greater faith and allegiance to the vision of America held by our founders – a country of limited government. Our founders, in the words of Thomas Paine, recognized that, “Government, even in its best state, is but a necessary evil; in its worst state, an intolerable one.””
http://www.lewrockwell.com/williams-w/w-williams67.1.html
Clark: As for your claim today that I am now a “nationalist”, I confess: I am a patriot and believe its time for Americans first.
And some Americans are More first than other Americans, right Durango Kidd, “to take what belongs to one American and give it to another or create a favor or special privilege for one American that comes at the expense of some other American.” is that what you mean?
Clark: LMAO! At no time have I ever even suggested that some Americans should benefit more than others. And who are you quoting? I never said that. Anyone here at SHTF plan for any length of time knows who I am, what I stand for, and what I believe. They know that I would never say such a thing.
I guess you are just use to copying and pasting, and now can’t even id your link, which is ok because I don’t waste my time with them anyway.
I believe in equality under the law without preference for all American citizens, based upon qualifications: education, experience, and ability; on a first come, first served basis. If you don’t have it, get it. I got mine. My first job at 16 was a garbage man …. it has been a long and winding road, but I was destined for the top of the heap you might, say! 🙂
I made my own way and paid my own way; at much cost and much sacrifice. No one gave me squat. I earned every step on the journey and usually twice, if I didn’t learn my leasson the first time. But that doesn’t mean I am opposed to helping my fellow human beings and American citizens when I can.
Its the Christian thing to do. As for Illegals, it would be cheaper for the American taxpayer to subsidize them at home.
Durango, you said you want socialized banking?
What is the different between Socialized banking and free enterprise banking?
Durango,
Nationalist is pretty much the same as socialist. People have ceased to be their own rulers and give their power to a few (the Multi-Billionaire cabal).
The policies of the Nationalist government never serve the people and they cause harm; such as Job loss, food control S.510, Universal Health Care, Socialize GM.Â
Nationalism IS NOT about being “patriotic†or “America Firstâ€.Â
You know as people said, a person who supports or believes in such a form of government is commonly called Anti-American.Â
_________________
I believe in a free market and the power of the people to make their own decisions about what’s best for them.
Durango Kidd, I was quoting the post just above your comment, was that not obvious enough for you?
If you’re not going to read the links I post that is your loss.
Here are just a few quotes of yours that suggest that some Americans should benefit more than others:
Durango Kidd said, “…eliminate programs like subsidized housing, and subsidies and food stamps for Illegals would be a big taxsaver”
Why not eliminate them for everyone – all the free riders – why only illegals?
Durango Kidd said, “Illegals are… tools of the NWO; parasite and invaders not entitled to the benefits of being here illegally”
So it’s ok for some Americans to take money from other Americans to give to other people just so long as they are here legally?
Durango Kidd said, “It does surprise me that you do not see the threat posed to US by Illegals. They cost more than $300 billion every year. that is enough to pay for social security, medicare, and fund our retirement accounts. Why spend it on FOREIGNERS?”
Again, it’s ok for some Americans to take money from other Americans to give to other people just so long as they are here legally?
I thought you said once there shouldn’t be free rides? That $300 billion every year wasn’t handed over willingly, the individuals who earned that money should decide what to do with it, not centralized decision makers.
You sound like a global socialist that wants to provide jobs, benefits and retirement funds to everyone except foreigners at the expense of the American taxpayer. You really should read the links I posted.
Jane: There you are! I was starting to miss you! But hey Jane get it right. What I explained to you before, and I will explain again, is that the bailout “nationalized” the debt of the banking cartel when the whole system was insolvent: meaning we paid for their losses.
If we were going to absorb and “nationalise” the debt (as we did) then we needed to “nationalize’ the profit as well. We needed to nationalize the stock and eliminate all of the previous stockholders when we in fact “purchased” the banks (by recapitalizing them)Â and then we needed to conficate the stock and banking assets and re-issue that stock to new buyers who would infuse THEIR capital into the banking system, not taxpayer dollars.
 As it was, all we did was assume the debt and allow the stockholders and managers a free ride for bad management and to retain their equity position and “banking franchise”. We made them whole, now they are making a easy profit from ownership of the banks when we paid for it. Thats not free enterprise or capitalism.
Compare that with the GM bankruptcy. In that scenario stakeholders lost their equity position and the US government took control of the stock and assets (equity) for its infusion of tax dollars. It is now selling that stock to new investors and at a profit, but recognize the difference in the transaction. We made the gangster banksters whole while eliminating most of the stakeholders in GM.
The US Government shouldn’t be in the position of bailing out the banks (which continues as QE 2) but if it is going to do it (recapitalize the banks with $800 billion in taxpayer money and QE2) we need to make a profit on it and let the losers take the losses. IE, The bankster gangsters.
Thus the “nationalization” of the banking system by confiscating the banking franchise and re-issuing and reselling new stock to new private investors, who are investing private money rather than taxpayer dollars. In free enterprise banking the bankers take their losses and lose their banking franchise for mismanagement, malfease, and criminal wrong doing. Someone really BIG needs to go to jail.
Got it? Good. Nice to have you back!
Clark: You need to grasp a FUNDAMENTAL fact: Illegals are not American citizens. How is it you do not grasp that?
You are the global socialist that wants to open American borders to anyone and provide them with jobs, subsidized housing, and food stamps while they compete Illegally with American citizens: primarily with Hispanic American citizens.
You must be mexican.
Another infamous Durango Kidd quote, “Anyone who thinks enough people can “opt out of maintaining the status quo†to turn the country around is a fool.”
So the non-violent civil rights movement of the 1960’s accomplished nothing?
The following is from a speech that everyone should read the entirety of, imho:
“As I have walked among the desperate, rejected and angry young men I have told them that Molotov cocktails and rifles would not solve their problems. I have tried to offer them my deepest compassion while maintaining my conviction that social change comes most meaningfully through nonviolent action.”
http://www.hartford-hwp.com/archives/45a/058.html
Then there’s this:
“According to a Memphis jury’s verdict on December 8, 1999, in the wrongful death lawsuit of the King family versus Loyd Jowers “and other unknown co-conspirators,” Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. was assassinated by a conspiracy that included agencies of his own government. Almost 32 years after King’s murder at the Lorraine Motel in Memphis on April 4, 1968, a court extended the circle of responsibility for the assassination beyond the late scapegoat James Earl Ray to the United States government.
I can hardly believe the fact that, apart from the courtroom participants, only Memphis TV reporter Wendell Stacy and I attended from beginning to end this historic three-and-one-half week trial. Because of journalistic neglect scarcely anyone else in this land of ours even knows what went on in it. After critical testimony was given in the trial’s second week before an almost empty gallery, Barbara Reis, U.S. correspondent for the Lisbon daily Publico who was there several days, turned to me and said, “Everything in the U.S. is the trial of the century. O.J. Simpson’s trial was the trial of the century. Clinton’s trial was the trial of the century. But this is the trial of the century, and who’s here?”
What I experienced in that courtroom ranged from inspiration at the courage of the Kings, their lawyer-investigator William F. Pepper, and the witnesses, to amazement at the government’s carefully interwoven plot to kill Dr. King. The seriousness with which U.S. intelligence agencies planned the murder of Martin Luther King Jr. speaks eloquently of the threat Kingian nonviolence represented to the powers that be in the spring of 1968.”
http://www.lewrockwell.com/orig12/douglass-jim1.1.1.html
Wow, you really are clueless, Durango Kidd.
There is no point in trying to discuss anything with you.
clark
What is it about ILLEGAL that you don’t understand? Do you understand LEGAL? Maybe you’re having trouble with the IL? How about NOT LEGAL! Do you understand that? Illegal aliens are citizens of a foreign country who have NO RIGHT to be here because they BROKE THE LAW to get here! They are DRAINING the treasuries of several State and Municipal governments at the expense of American citizens and LEGAL residents. Are you dense?
Clark; LMAO! 🙂 Wrong again! Still another FUNDAMENTAL error on your part. Who is clueless, now?
The Civil Rights Movement didn’t “OPT OUT”. They engaged their government on a number of fronts, by voting, making others aware, organizing, marching, and demanding social, political, and economic justice. I was there. Where were you?Â
That is what Americans need to be doing now to take back their government from lawyers, lobbyists, and special interests. Those that fail to engage their government (as the Civil Rights Movement did) will be enslaved by it!
GodSend, What is it about Theft that You don’t understand? Do you know how to read and comprehend the questions I posed? It does not seem that way. The only treasury being drained is one filled with money Taken from Americans under threat of force. Think about this, the government is DRAINING the treasuries of several State and Municipal governments at the expense of American citizens, period. Yet your biggest complaint seems to be those you favor are not receiving the loot, rather than asking if the process of taking the money to fund everything is in need of correction.
That the immigrants came here illegally is not worth further turning the U.S. into a police state and further shredding the rights of Americans when in the end it will not work, the same way The Berlin Wall didn’t work and the same way a Federal Penitentiary is not the safest place in America. There are other peaceful ways to solve problems people have with one another instead of turning the U.S. into a police state prison camp. The free-market can provide solutions, but those who do not prefer liberty will not choose this option, nor will they Opt Out.
Many people don’t seem to understand what Opting Out means, this is one form of Opting Out, it worked and it was effective:
“The Montgomery Bus Boycott was a political and social protest campaign that started in 1955 in Montgomery, Alabama, USA, intended to oppose the city’s policy of racial segregation on its public transit system… The boycott resulted in a crippling financial deficit for the Montgomery public transit system, because the city’s black population who were the drivers of the boycott were also the bulk of the system’s paying customers…”- Wikki
Opting Out worked for Canadians:
“Opting out is a political expression that was formulated in Canada to describe the intention of a province to remove itself from a program administered by the federal government, or to exempt itself from a constitutional amendment that would transfer its legislative powers to Parliament.” – Wikki
Opting Out is working in the U.S. too, 14 states are Opting Out of Obamacare, and some changes are happening because people are Opting Out of the TSA porno-scan-gropes, for one thing, those who Opt Out of flying altogether have avoided being porno-scaned and groped.
Preppers and survivalist Opt Out of being involved with disaster, as much as they can, by being prepared one way or another. An obvious way of Opting Out is when people obtain PM’s to Opt Out of the effects from inflation and other monetary disruptions.
There are many ways to Opt Out, a famous and effective Opt Out was started by some salt buyers in India decades ago, you may have heard of the name of the leader of this organized Opt Out?
Opting Out is worldwide and it works.
“”Consent of the governed” is a phrase synonymous with a political theory where in a government’s legitimacy and moral right to use state power is only justified and legal when derived from the people or society over which that power is exercised.” – Wikki
clark
You seem to be unable to discuss anything without dragging it into “Opting Out”. How about dealing with a subject on it’s own? All you seem to want to talk about is “Opt Out”, even if the subject is tiddlywinks. I believe that’s called a “one track mind”.
Try again. Are illegal aliens draining State and Municipal treasuries at the expense of American citizens and legal residents – to the tune of $Billions? Never mind what else is draining those treasuries – that’s a different subject. “Opting Out” will NOT solve the problem of illegal aliens, will it!?
No subject is an island all unto itself.
Failure to consider the whole and the root source of seemingly unrelated problems is common these days.
…illegal aliens draining State and Municipal treasuries???
No, government is.
Opting Out will solve the problems, the funding and support to further turn America into a police state will dry up, allowing individuals and the free-market to solve their own problems peacefully and create a situation where we can all coexist. People must want liberty and freedom for it to work though, it seems that not many do.
If being a legal immigrant vs. an illegal one meant a person was not a dangerous criminal simply for being legal there might be a reason to make a distinction, but as the legal banksters who steal from Main Street show – and many other legal Americans – legal status does not determine much of anything, it’s quite like the issue of requiring drivers licenses:
Driver’s Licenses: Not Really About Driving
http://www.lewrockwell.com/peters-e/peters-e11.1.html
Driver’s License? We Don’t Need No Stinking License
http://www.lewrockwell.com/orig2/clark9.html
clark
“There is no point in trying to discuss anything with you.” Sound familiar?
When someone has a “one track mind”, your statement above is true! 😉 The best course of action for everyone here (and elsewhere) is to Opt Out any discussions with you.
Good night, Irene (clark).
Whatever.
People must want liberty and freedom for it to work though, it seems that not many do.
Found this on another blog, thought it applied here:
“Three-fifths to two-thirds of the federal budget consists of taking property from one American and giving it to another. Were a private person to do the same thing, we’d call it theft. When government does it, we euphemistically call it income redistribution, but that’s exactly what thieves do — redistribute income. Income redistribution not only betrays the founders’ vision, it’s a sin in the eyes of God.” – Dr. Walter E. Williams