The Shock Of a New Paradigm – How Will People Cope?

by | Jan 20, 2012 | Emergency Preparedness | 279 comments

Do you LOVE America?


    In a previous interview Chris Duane, founder of Don’t Tread on Me, discussed the coming paradigm shift and how it may lead to Riots, Starvation and Bloodshed as a consequence of a populace that is completely unprepared to deal with a situation that may involve a breakdown in the US dollar and the unavailability of essential supplies like food, energy and medicine. As a complement to that conversation, the following micro-documentary further expands on the real possibility of a complete breakdown in the social fabric of America.

    If the worst were to happen, and all of the systems on which Americans depend – things like just-in-time food transportation, law enforcement, medical response and the normal flow of commerce – were to suffer long-term disruptions, how long would it take for the relative peace and safety in America to devolve into complete pandemonium?

    The problem is that when the dollar dies, I believe that all Fiat currencies and paper assets will die also.

    This means no food, no fuel, no money, no jobs, and no hope. Even with the first shock-wave of this paradigm change we have already surpassed the suicide rate reported during the Great Depression.

    …How do you think it will be when things actually get real bad?

    …I believe that it will be catastrophically worse.

    …I do want to warn everybody of one thing. Nearly 10% of the country, or 27 million American,s are on these drugs (psychotropics and SSRI’s). Please understand there is only a one month supply in the system. The kind of psychotic breaks that will happen when these people come off their drugs too fast, en masse, will be catastrophic.

    When the dollar collapses we not only have to worry about the 7 to 10 day supply of fuel. We really need to worry about the one in ten Americans who will not be medicated when their paradigm collapses.

    Chris Duane
    Don’t Tread on Me 

    Micro-Doc: The Shock of a New Paradigm:


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      1. If I’m not #1 I’ve gotta be close…

        …#10 cans — crisp $100 bills (inflation)…

        mushroom – accept no cheap imitations!


        • You are!

          • As we say daily in my dark world…defecation occurs!

            …#10 cans — crisp $100 bills (inflation)…

            mushroom – accept no cheap imitations!


        • Mushroom, that is funny but some that read this will do what you are saying and save those $10.00 bills. When things get bad they will be hit hard so it would probably be better to save the comedy.

          • @Jimb…

            Don’t take life too seriously, no one gets out of here alive. When and if it gets that bad and if they haven’t prepared, it will be too late. I’ll keep my sense of humor, I’m gonna need it the way things are shaping up. $10 bills ($100 now with inflation) will buy stuff for a few weeks after a collapse as the sheeple will still consider them money and be willing to trade them for stuff. Do you really think Walmart is going to take your 90% silver coins in exchange for a box of oatmeal? When you can no longer buy anything with them, they are still useful as toilet paper and crumpled they make good insulation.

            …#10 cans — crisp $100 bills (inflation)…

            mushroom – accept no cheap imitations!


            • And if they did take silver or a $10 bill, how many Bubbas would be in the parking lot with guns trying to take your Quaker Oatmeal from you? How many would follow you home too? You will not want to leave your house.

            • Yep! Im not so much worried about the people coming off prescription drugs as I am the materialistic people in love with money coming off the money drug. They will be suicidal maniacs, just like in the last major depression. Half or more of the people under 30 are all smoking crack anyhow. The chaos and pandemonium that will ensue in heavy populated areas will be unimaginable. Anything you have stored up that is edible will be stolen from you after they kill you. Money will be useless. Automobiles will be useless. Your home will be a death trap waiting to happen. Best thing to do is pack your backpak lightly with necessities and get out of dodge to the mountains.

            • Maximus… plan to head to the boonies with a backpack???? How long do you think you and the other 50,000 sheeple with that Idea will last out there?

          • @Jimb…

            Don’t take life too seriously, no one gets out of here alive. When and if it gets that bad and if they haven’t prepared, it will be too late. I’ll keep my sense of humor, I’m gonna need it the way things are shaping up. $10 bills ($100 now with inflation) will buy stuff for a few weeks after a collapse as the sheeple will still consider them money and be willing to trade them for stuff. Do you really think Walmart is going to take your 90% silver coins in exchange for a box of oatmeal? When you can no longer buy anything with them, they are still useful as toilet paper and crumpled they make good insulation.

            …#10 cans — crisp $100 bills (inflation)…

            mushroom – accept no cheap imitations!


            • Mushroom: Have you considered changing out the HEPA filter in your crack pipe?

        • did you even read the article?

        • Silver dimes you …. fungus.

          • LOLOL thank you for your succinct comment.

      2. It never fails to amaze me at the number of people who still have no clue as to what is happening….they simply cant put the pieces together.

        In their defense, as families continue to struggle more and more with fewer resources, it is difficult to think beyond that next meal…that next bill…but somehow we need to reach these people…they are our relatives..our friends…our neighbors. Without revealing the depth of our individual preps, we will need the efforts of all to survive whats coming…and by doing so…will improve our odds too.

        • I love it that so many are asleep. This keeps metals low and lets me stock up on more. love it. Embrace the horror.

          Have enough metals to trade one day for a cheap country place where you’ll live off the land. A small tractor, a shotgun for hunting and a nice chicken coup and plenty of fire wood and well water will be your retirement.

          I bet I’ll be happier than the suburban hell commute.

          Editorial…sucks we let the crime in the cities get so bad….as we all are slaves to the commute.

          vote Ron Paul in 2012.

          • Not only vote ron paul, but WE have to go to mittens,newtered, ans senttowreckhims events and take video of just how FEW people, and how many paied people are getting paid to follow them around and post them on the web for all to see. EXAMPLE A- google RP’s speech at columbia, there has to be 1200 people there, newtered had to CANCEL his speech there because NOBODY SHOWED! EXAMPLE B- ALL PHOTOS OF SPEEKING EVENTS THE 3 OF A KIND(mittens,newtered, and sentowreckhim) are from angels that you can’t tell how many people are there THERE IS A REASON FOR THAT! The paid for prestitute media has been calling mittens the front runner, and ron paul CANT WIN for as long as I can remember! BULLSHIT! RON PAUL IS THE FRONT RUNNER! What used to be DIEBOLD can rot in HELL! Everyone WATCH hacking democracy! By the way, the PRIVATE company who COUNTS THE VOTES was just bought by someone(bain capitol???) THOSE THAT VOTE MEAN NOTHING, THOSE WHO COUNT THEM MEAN EVERYTHING!! As long as we EXPOSE the fraud, wake as many up as posible, we will prevail! I was recently in a very remote spot on the planet, me and 6 coworkers were talking, and some how ross perot came up, what do ya know, WE ALL VOTED FOR HIM! How many of YOU DID????? They are cracking down with all these new laws because they know that WHEN liberty, and the will of the people are restored many of them will get locked up and heads will roll into the bucket! END OF DRIVEL FILLED RANT!

            • kevin
              not a drivel filled rant.. youre absolutely right.

            • I did

            • Kevin,
              dude, I attended a Mitt rally in Columbia. Had to have been at least 700 peeps there. seriously.

          • Do you really believe a self sufficient family is going to want your gold or silver? It may just get you killed. It is no doubt a safe place to invest extra cash provided you already have food, med supplies and a means to protect it. You can’t eat gold and it will probably be awhile before a new system is in place where money will be important enough and traded again. Read what some of the survivors have to say about their experiences after the collapse in Argentia (search Ferfal) or Bosnia (selco’s shtf school)

        • It looks like these SSRI drugs are just small segment of what in total is going to happen. We all know there is a think tank out there somewhere that has thought this scenario or scenarios out in total and theorized multiple outcomes. They have run the numbers and have an idea of what will be left. Left as in “us.” Population loss due to murder, suicide, sickness, water loss, hunger, and a host of many other causes. As far as some drug deficient wild eyed joker coming at me, night-night sunshine! If society breaks down and we no longer believe in the law enforcement myth and see what it was in reality at some point we will segregate ourselves and form groups large and small. These groups will be self-sufficient, self-governing and self-defensive. There are going to be large losses of life probably in the millions by the time it’s all said and done. Bad water, starvation and murder are on the top of my list.
          Have no illusions, when those checks, food stamps and EBT cards don’t show up every month, buddy watch out. The entitlement society will be seeking their entitlements at your house.

          • Hammerun

            Agreed..and add to the list the millions of public unions police/fire etc whose upcoming pensions are NOT there..literally trillions of unfunded pensions are another specter of Damocles sword hanging over the Republic..

            It’s gonna be a real mess..

            Keep on prepping and stashing the full metal jackets

            Go to your local ranges and practice practice practice/\\

            Learn defensive maneuvers asap..


            • Amen! I am a former firefighter and consider the training and experience I received more valuable than my pension. I always said it would eventually go broke and get rolled into social security which will be paid out in inflated dollars.

            • Add 1.4 million gang bangers to that mess!

            • Yep! The ones that are going to suffer are the one’s who have never been homeless down and out, lived on the streets, and have had no basic training or lived on a farm. Them puppy’s are gonna be lost. Mainly the rich and urbanites. Cause when the real shit hits the fan, the only survivors will be the ones that have experience and no how to survive.

            • hollow points and softpoints too. old chief of mine called it the salad mix!

            • Project Appleseed….just do it !!!

            • @ Old Fuzzy,
              Surprisingly enough, most gang bangers are group minded thugs just trying to make a living for thier families and loved ones! They are family orientated! Very few are really saddistic and or greedy, the 10%! They are very well organized and are capable of locking down their communities and providing protection from outside threats in a SHTF scenario. Instead talking shit about them, you may do well to learn from thier tactics! I am not a gangster, but the area I live in has been a hub of drug trafficking for the past 50 years or so! I fear them less than the police. Remember, safety in numbers, and gang bangers definately have numbers. They are great with numbers!!!!!

          • Hammerun; your absolutely right. I see this playing out more and more every day. I try to tell even close relatives; and they don’t want to hear it. And when they do listen; they sort of roll their eyes; and say;” It could never happen here.” They don’t know it; but i’m not only prepping for myself; but for them as well.

          • Hammerun, etc: Many older people on heart meds, cancer drugs, insulin, and COPD medication; some living around me and several I know on dialysis. This alone will cause die offs nation wide in days. I’m stashing 10’s, 20’s, 100 dollar bills to buy stuff from sheeple who will take currency for whatever I may need.

            • Instead of stashing worthless fed notes you might want to use them while you can to stock up on food, med supplies and a means to protect it all.. I definitely would not count on your average sheeple to have much extra of anything of value for a survival situation. Just my .02

        • Oregon Prepper: You are on the mark. This is really scary and is a clear indication of what a minority we are:

          5 million watched the Republican Debate

          6.2 million watched Jersey Shore

          18 million watched American Idol

          Reality will hit them like a sledge hammer.

          • Great point RedLeader. That really puts things in perspective.

          • i watched my little rascals dvd collection. at least they knew how to create jobs

            • Oh man the Little Rascals, we used to call them the Little Ass …. oh never mind!

              Great ol’ show, and wonderful black-and-white views of old Los Angeles, when it was a greasy oil town.

          • “Bread & Circus”

            Of course, there have been a “zillion” GOP debates. The only thing of interest is watching the candidates drop out.

            I’ll admit to being part of the 18 million….love those early Idol freaks! 😉

            …but I don’t sacrifice my exposure to real information, just balance it with a little fun now and then. The problem is when brain dead lemmings know the names of the idiots on Jersey Shore but can’t name their own Senator or Congressman!

          • I was one of the ones watching american idol. Because I have my shit wired already.I had finished my preps for the week. None of those talking heads at the debate are saying anything worth hearing (except Ron Paul).

          • Do we really want everyone surviving? Would it not be better to allow those who watch programes like Jersey Shore and American Idol to just starve to death when SHTF? Some people don’t want to wake up and are happy doing what they are doing now. So let them starve and die when the time comes. As a survivor, you have to lean to survive and that means putting yourself FIRST. You can so no, I’ll put my family first, but then you aren’t surviving are you. Your helping others survive over your own self. So if something happens to you, you’ll be useless to your family and won’t be able to save them anyway.

            Should everything collapse, remember there will only be a limited number of resources, and nothing coming behind to replace it. So once a food source is gone, it’s gone!! Once the fuel is used, you’ll be walking. One medical stocks are used up, that it.

            So a mass die off is a good thing. The more people who die early, the greater the chances of your long term survival, which enhances your families chances of survival, because there will be less demand on what limited stocks of food, meds and fuel that’s available.

            You might think I sound heartless and cruel, but reality is, a real survivor has to make horrendous choices in a crisis situation. I’d rather me and my family survive over someone who refuses to wake up because the Kardashians are more fun to watch than Bear Grills. Let them die if there too stupid to wake up

            • Nomad, good point concerning everyone surviving. What will happen is the seperation of givers vs takers. Those that are use to taking for a living will be thinned out in a hurry.

            • “So a mass die off is a good thing.”

              Agreed. Be my guest to start things off.

        • Oregonprepper, just out of curiosity, how do u think our state will fair when everything does finally make the turn?

          • I don’t know much about Oregon, but it’ll likely do about the same as most other states….densely populated areas will be toast, as will be the communities unlucky enough to lie on nearby interstates and other lines of drift (US highways, main state highways, etc). This is why I’m quite pleased to live in a lightly populated state with small, tight-knit communities where the social fabric has not as yet been too badly ripped apart. Lots of clean water, LOTS of farm land, a decent population of various types of wildlife. We probably have as good a chance as anybody of coming through it. It’s DAMN cold here in winter, but then we’re all used to that and know how to deal with it, too. And it’ll help drive out the riffraff the first winter after TSHTF.

            • Well see this is where im quietly optomistic about my chances. I live in a small community about an hr drive away from the spot where it will get the worst(portland), between here and there is some fairly up and down country. In town we have a couple of dairy farms, several large cattle ranches, and a good size river that somewhat isolates us from the main road coming from all the cities, one blown bridge and thru traffic is done unless they have the gas to take a 30 minute detour. Aside from that we are bordered primarily with a bunch of farm community. Optomistic or not however, i will be leaving town for at least a month or so when everything goes sideways.

            • From the history related to the 1st great depression and more recent economic collapse scenario’s wildlife will disappear quick including pets. If you have not yet, learn to tend a garden and all about edible plants in your AO.

          • In the county I live in, over 60% of the population is currently on some form of government assistance for food or housing or both. But if there is one consolation, here in the Willamette valley its possible to grow a lot of our daily needs…and i am devoting a lot more time to mastering those techniques. The true measure of those who are prepping is preparing ourselves, emotionally, financially, and physically. Knowledge is the key….and i thank god daily that we have the resources we have now.

            • Absolutely agree, we are blessed to be in one of the more forgiving and able climates in the country. I have had the conversation with a few friends about “knowledge”, while they all are prepping, not all of them are taking the time to learn how to create some of the simple things we take for granted…Ive always told them, its not just gathering things to ride out the storm, its learning how to use whats left over that is going to be vastly important.

          • Google future maps of America. Oregon probably not even likely to be there much longer!

        • Hey OP : )
          Man you’re gonna compassion yourself to death mate, toughen up buddy.
          I’m the Kook in the family and as much as I keep telling them, “I’ve got enough for my wife and kids, that’s it – you guys better get ready too”. The half arsed joke now is “Well Cal will look after us”, you know what I say “The rule is – don’t go into business with or lease your house to friends or family”. Simple, and as the time gets closer I’ll be making a real charlie uniform november tango out of myself over the subject.
          After TSHTF the sign on my gate will read “PATROLLED BY WINCHESTER – If you don’t visit regular, DON’T visit now!”
          The end is coming for all who can’t live past the “instant gratification” syndrome, unfortunately those people will take a few who have prep’d with them. Circumstance will be the judge of my end, whether it’s the crazies gone mad or a rusty nail gone septic and tetinus or even old age : )
          I haven’t spent the last 4 years saving money to buy silver/gold, moving my family to a very isolated spot in a community that exports quality food, setting up solar 12v, setting up 50k gallon rainwater, setting up chook yards, sheep pens etc etc you get the picture to be raped by my family and others I know who can’t look after themselves, people who can’t (or won’t) turn a sod or kill and peel a rabbit. I’ve invited 6 couples, who know my mind and I know and trust them.
          Sorry no room for dickhead macho types or shiney arses or manquins of fashion or wanna be alphas.
          The first time I killed a sheep was quite confronting, stopping a critter, a life, butchering was not so bad but you think I could eat it the first few times I was served ? I had some trouble but I did it. I now know if there’s trouble I can deal with it terminatedly.
          Go get some really before it gets you.

          • Cal, if our families can’t take advise now, they won’t be able to take orders later. “Well Cal will look after us”,they’ll think they can live with us on their terms; wrong! That isn’t being heartless, that’s being a good steward.

      3. I have thought about people migrating out of cities. I am 90 miles away and I honestly hope that the “mob” gets thinned considerably. Thought about natural choke points that could be blockaded. I tend to think cities will turn to war zones and most will eliminate each other before they fan out in the country side.
        I sure wouldn’t want to live in a city at the time when money fails.

        • Guys and Gals,

          You can survive. I have survived the fall of several countries economies and I can honestly say that my grandparents, probably your great, great grandparents could too. You must learn to alter YOUR paradigm. here is a place to begin.

          It is not too late. buy a weeks worth of food extra, then a month, then two months and so on. By consuming the oldest first you SAVE money. Good luck to you and and may God bless.

          • cyrus—I’ll be the one to say this…I think it’s too late to prep on a true scale to survive.
            Do you know how long it took me to accumulate what I have??
            3 years..and I’m still picking up rice and canned goods when able.
            I admire anyone that is gonna try…but this buying extra weekly, storing, researching the prepper sites, BOB gathering–it’s just too late to seriously go at it nonchalantly.
            Now, in my view is the time to get all you got, buy all you can, and cut any extras necessary to provide money for food and water.
            JMO—-it’s coming and it’s coming soon.

            • I have been at this thirty years and acquiring training and provisions over time has been much more efficient, but I believe if someone were willing to drop $30K-$50K today they could be ready in a couple weeks, especially if they knew someone who could guide them. I know vacant rural properties being auctioned off every week if one is willing to move now. I have taken possession of vacant houses between the auction and closing and no one complained. Rent a storage unit nearby and start hitting the gun shows, and Sam’s Club, and LDS cannery, Lowes, etc. One can order everything from precious metals to food storage to night vision online and often get next day delivery. Since they would be moving shortly, they not need worry about the UPS man delivering thousands of rounds of ammo or dozens of buckets of food storage to their home. Today on my local Craigslist I can get everything from steel and plastic barrels to a CB base antenna. Hands-on training would be out of the question except maybe firearms, but one can order instructional DVDs on almost any topic on Amazon and even download YouTube videos if you know how.

            • I dunno why it should be so expensive to prepare. Sell the toys. We are in the middle of prepping ourselves. getting the staples first. Rice, beans, salt, sugar, spices, veg oil, shotgun, shotgun shells.

              We have a machine shop, and a clinic in the house.

              We have water filtration equipment, cistern, garden, and tall cement walls around the house.

              Wasn’t hard, just gotta consider your priorities. Sell the toys. The extra TV, the extra appliances, extra furniture, extra clothes, ipad, extra computer, all sold.

              BTW we first got out of debt totally by not going to the movies, not buying junk food, no restaurants, no toys, for a year and paying the mortgage at 4200 dollars a month towards the loan. we got rid of the vehicle that had a car payment for the price of the loan and bought a 4×4 van cash.

            • I am encouraged that you were able to pay off your home for less than $50k and have plenty left over for provisions, but my estimate is for a city slicker who must relocate and also includes enough silver at today’s prices to feed a family for five years in addition to a three year food supply.

            • If that sounds like too much certainly you would be willing to sell me your homestead and supplies for $50,000. Please send me a message with the general location by clicking on my user name.

            • It’s Never too late! Even just one bag of lentils or beans is better than NONE at all. Just keep prepping until the stores are out, or it’s time to go to your bug out retreat. If you just get started check out I got the link from a post here somewhere and ordered my BOB last year.

              We started with one of the kits and added copies of important papers, extra clothing and an emergency radio too. It takes only a few minutes to pick out a kit that works for your family and have it shipped to you, instead of driving all over town trying to find all the items you need for a good bug out bag. Then spend a day reviewing the contents and adding your extras. Put it in the hallway closed by the door and it’s ready whenever you need it. Total time spent probably 2 hours = Lifetime of Peace of Mind!

              Once you got that in place and hopefully some self protection too, get started on building up your food and water supply. Take it once step at a time. Once you get started it does become somewhat of an obsession. Just keep adding to your preps!

          • To all: Please take the time to read cyrus’ links.
            Your post rightly points to the fact of accountability, responsibility, and honor for all men (women).
            Thank you “C” (MM)

        • Recent history seems to indicate that the first thing the mobs will trash will be their own neighborhoods. By the time they think of spreading out, I’m thinking that the gas will be all gone. And ninety miles by Interstate is easy. Off the Interstates, they will quickly get get lost and become easy pickings themselves.

          • Coach, my husband has been saying the same thing!

          • Yeah Old Coach,target practice!

            • Old Coach is the best, why, I remember his regular article in The American Rifleman!

          • The ghetto bums ain’t going nowhere. Remember Katrina? From what I understand all they had to do was walk out on Highway 10 (correct me if I’m wrong) but did they? Hell no, they are too lazy. they will just go hog wild and kill each other off.

            • King, I do remember there were a number of people who actually DID try to walk out of New Orleans post-Katrina but were turned away with shotguns by local authorities — not even given any food or water for the trek back. A disgrace.
              Yes, poor choices were made by individuals, but I’m sure most folks expected the levee to hold. I guess the normalcy bias contributed greatly to the tragedy.
              About your ghetto-bum comment, with open arms our city sponsored many Katrina refugees and most of them stayed. I’m not sure how many bad apples came with the bunch, but they’ve continued to make a name for themselves and have destroyed property values in the areas where they were settled.
              On the other hand there was an older gentleman hard-working handyman who did odd jobs in my neighborhood with a sign on his truck thanking our city for the chance to be here. Unfortunately I think he is one of the ones who returned! 🙂

          • In America there is too much bio-diesel fuel manufactured in a neighbors garage. Along with the home mechanic that can get a diesel up an running in short time.

            I feel a well laid plan would get and keep a large gang going hundreds of miles outside their homeground.

            Never forget the value of a true skill set.

        • P-dog hunting that really helps the environment. Put Homer Hamburger and Homer Hotdog to sleep to help Mother Earth and yours.

          Basically, don’t trust anyone under 30. Us old farts who lived through the Starving Seventies, we learned to make do, we learned to fish, hunt, forage, improvise, etc. It amazes me that anyone romanticizes the 1970s, it was a hard time. Plentiful food seemed to happen mid-80s, and anyone born post-1980 probably never got acquainted with Mr. Hunger. They’ll freak out and head for the cities for high-fructose corn syrup handouts.

          • domestic terroist and all of you
            this is why we are headed for armegeddon. “Basically, don’t trust anyone under 30. Us old farts who lived through ”
            sums it up…. and you all think its brilliant…. should be applauded… well i think you are all a disgrace…. you people(the boomers) going along with what the ptb tell you to do , tell you what to think , to crack down hard on young people….youre fucken sick….i get the whole “hey boy, do as i say , not as i do” line of thinking , however i bellieve boomers must be purged from our society. at this point you are just grasping for wtraws…looking to blame anyone but yorselves for what you have created , youre sick, youre sick bloody animals…i think we have lost anychance here in the last few days.. i think its time to go into hiding if possible… if not… well we dont stan d much of a chance…. im 38 by the way.. dont mean nothing, just telling you.

            • eeder, have you taken your meds today.

            • mona… i dont take meds or any prescription drugs.. thats likely you… and most old boomers on here…. i never really will.

            • You need help dude!!!

            • Please just go into hiding. Please do us that favor

            • eeder- not all old farts can be lumped into a category as you described. I have had a few thumbs down for explaining that KNOWLEDGE is critical… by that I meant to educate younger people with a knowledge the public penal system (schools) has denied them. I intend to give my smarts to as many young people as possible before I’m too crippled with the inflictions I’ve been “blessed” with. We old farts have amassed a knowledge not understood by some young people. My own children are just now finding out that their “old man” is actually intelligent and not as dumb as they once thought. It takes cooperation between both parties to make a big difference as to an outcome. With an attitude that most people have now days, we will be doomed as a society.. we NEED to change our views if we are to survive. If we can’t change, all I can say is “we had a good run for mankind”. An individual cannot inherently change another, as represented here on this site, because some here still try to protect their assets with a failed monetary system…. PM’s and cash. Knowledge, cooperation and Respect for others is the only salvation. Move to northern Az. when SHTF and I will do my best for you and as many as possible.

        • It will be a couple week before the sheeple wake up, most will be camped out side of city hall screaming to the empty building that they want their entitlements, by the time they wake up, it’ll be to late, a few days with no food or water and they won’t be going far, hope they got a generator and few reruns of Americans Idol and the Super Bowl to watch while they starve.

        • People won’t flee the cities to the farms, unless they have relatives. Why? Because people in cities know that there is even less access to food in farm areas than cities. Sure, farmer Brown might have a cow and chickens to lay eggs. But ultimately city people will stay put and end up fighting each other for what scraps they can find or loot and steal.

      4. I think the minimal amount of food in the average household will be a far greater concern than whether or not some nut is off their meds. Lack of food will drive normal sheeple to be truly dangerous and unpredictable. I would not be concerned too much about the gangs breaking in to Walmart to steal big screen tv’s because that is normal thug behavior. Breaking in to the same Walmart to steal food because of an empty belly is far more dangerous behavior in my mind.

        • You need to be concerned about as many issues of a collapse as you can. A well rounded plan is always the best. Food is essential, but with no way to protect it, what’s the point? Every avenue needs to be addressed.
          At some point, those gangs that you might not be concerned about last week, might be roving in your neighborhood this week.
          Things change constantly, learn to roll with the punches.

          • @greaseman,

            Don’t worry, I have plenty of weapons, lead, powder, and primers to keep my family’s supplies well defended. Wife and father are also well armed and on board with killing to defend what is ours. My point in the previous post is that gangs stealing stuff does not concern me because that is normal disaster behavior. When a few days pass and they start hitting the same stores to steal food because their chicas’ are whining about no food in the house then you will know that things are serious. Because the next step after the stores are emptied is the door to door looting to aquire food. I live a safe distance out in the country but that just means that those who make it that far are pretty savvy and more dangerous than the average sheeple.

            • @The Moon is a Harsh Mistress;
              I like you are looking at this in the same way. I don’t know where you are located but we are in the high desert in SoCal. We don’t see a bright light in any tunnel no matter what the level o horseshit MSM puts out in LA. We are armed to the teeth and our preps can now be measured in the tons. I have a son that lives in Fullerton CA and he knows if the SHTF get your butts in that Yukon and get out here “fast.” We have talked to all of our kids about this and they all understand. We have upgraded our two 325’ wells (new pumps) and installed a 1550 gal. Storage tank. A friend of mine is coming out Sunday to do remote power access to the main panel for the generators. We are into this deep, no screwing around anymore. The real concern is that main east/west freeway a mile south of here, that’s going to be a problem. In the SHTF scenario that freeway is going to be packed and everybody will be close to out of gas. That’s what happens out now if you were to come this way. The town 15 miles west of us nothing more than a pit stop normally. If this goes down I can envision vehicles strewn up that road and people wandering around in the desert and going to the closest place they see for food and water. This isn’t going to be a pleasant scene at all.

            • @Hammerun,

              I live in the high foothills in NoCal. The neck of the woods I live in is considered hillbilly territory. The one positive about the area I live is that access is on a very long windy canyon road which keeps the yuppie trash with their wanna-be off road vehicles and pampered yuppie mutts out for the most part. People who live out here generally live out here because they want to be left alone, and I think the local LEOs would be hard-pressed to try any shenanigans when most people here are very well armed. Hell, I am armed as much to protect myself from some of the types who live out here as opposed to JBPTs. Those who think they will just “head for the hills” when TSHTF are deluding themselves. While there is lots of wildlife out here, I expect them to disappear within weeks of TSHTF. Unprepared but well armed neighbors and elite created plagues worry me far more than nuts who are off their meds and gangbangers out of their element who wander up this way.

          • Exactly, precisely and to the point. If it don’t fit in your back-pack you don’t need it. Now a days kids are killing and stealing for Michael Jordan tennis shoes.

            • Jordan doesn’t make tennis shoes!

        • How do you say “Food Addiction?”

          Of all the addictions, and the veritable kaleidoscope of various ones out there are mind boggling, staggering, unbelievable, FOOD is THE GREAT GRAND DADDY of them all.

          Oh boy, what a circus, what a show we will have on our hands when the withdrawals from; junk food, GMO food, fast food, toxic food, foodless food, wraps it’s vicious tentacles around the stomachs and minds of those who can’t get their daily, three times a day, fix. Oh Man, OH MAN, OH MAN, what a spectacle that will be. The screeching, the howling and the gnashing of teeth. Americans are soooo addicted to food, it’s terrifying.

          The ironically funny and scary thing about that is “THEY DON’T EVEN KNOW IT!” They have never taken an opportunity to give their body a rest from the constant stuffing of garbage down their mouths to actually feel what “real” hunger is. When they feel the urge to eat, what they believe is hunger, is really the sensation of the toxins, which they are actually addicted to, being released from the body into the blood stream, which in turn, when they attempt to satisfy those cravings by eating the same foodless foods, continues the vicious cycle of reintroducing that toxin or drug, back into the system so as to momentarily give relief of the “itch they can’t quite scratch”, but never truly satisfies.

          Believe it or not, most Americans are malnutritioned. That’s right. Even though one out of two is overweight and one out of three is obese, they are actually starving themselves to death on foods that don’t provide adequate nutrition to their system, and, the by-product of the insatiable consumption of undigestible “stuff” is the accumulation of fat, fat, FAT.

          Imagine heroin addicts, the very hard core ones, needing that fix. What they will do, what they will go through to get that next “rush”. Take that same illustration and apply it to 80 or 90% of Americans who are addicted to food. Now, the sadly funny thing here is, as I mentioned earlier, that most people haven’t even got a clue they are addicted. Somehow, some way, just like the heroin addict, they fill their belly with something to satisfy that craving for salt, starch or sugar, in just the right amount to numb their bodies and minds so they can stay somehow “together” until their next meal. It’s a very sad commentary on how far Americans have gotten off tract when it comes to keeping their internal systems in balance.

          And these are the ones that will be in Shock of the New Paradigm when their fast food restaurant is shut down. When their local grocery store with stacks of foodless food is ransacked and burnt to the ground. When they get that glazed over look and check out your lean, or not so lean, looking body as they come after you with ketchup and Adolph’s Meat Tenderizer, hoping that you’ve got enough med’s in your bloodstream to make their strenuous journey of getting you in their crock pot, worthwhile and fulfilling not only to their acid stomach but to their fried nervous system as well.

          • Im not sure if you say this in Jest or not. But I spent a lot of time overseas and I can say you do crave the things that you can no longer get and go to extremes to get them.

          • EA, well put! Thankfully for us, these folks won’t last but a few days after TSHTF in my opinion. Not only do they not how to eat, they don’t know sh.. about surviving beyond the last Mc… whatever they are called. Culling of the herd dude!

          • I believe this to be true EA
            I stayed a while in Peru, and I never missed the shit food of this a matter of fact, I never felt so alive and well.

          • The preacher man says it’s the end of time
            And the Mississippi River she’s a goin’ dry

            The interest is up and the stock market’s down
            And you only get mugged if you go downtown

            I live back in the woods you see
            My woman and the kids and the dogs and me

            I’ve got a shotgun a rifle
            and a four wheel drive
            And a country boy can survive
            Country folks can survive

            { From: }

        • They won’t know that you can just wait a bit and your stummick will stop yapping at you. They’ll freak out, and never having seen their ribs, will think they’re dying or some damn thing. They’ll stream to the cities hoping for a gov’t handout of c-rats or something, and it may work for a while.

          • One summer when I was in college I went on a crash diet. I was 215 pounds when I started, and 160 pounds 2 months and 6 days later. While I wouldn’t recommend this type of diet to anyone, I did learn some things.

            You are correct…your stomach does stop yapping at you, in my case within about a week of very short rations. It IS a bit of a freak-out to start seeing your ribs, along with a lot of other bone contours you never really realized were there. It DOES feel a bit like you’re dying, just because things are changing so much. You get cold easier, and don’t get hot NEARLY so easy. It rapidly gets easier to run/walk for longer distances. You can even work harder for longer.

            I did that willingly, because I had decided to get in better shape. Parts of it felt very strange and were a little scary. It would be a whole different thing with millions of people in a smallish area going through the same thing simultaneously against their will. That is not an environment I ever want to be in.

            • Now THAT is a great story with impressive insights. Would be great to hear more of what took place during those intense 2 months.

              Not many Americans have the willpower to willingly take the initiative to experience such a transition. Good job!

        • Moon;

          After reading your posts, it is interesting the living area set up you have and I see clearly why you are more concerned for people coming for food, gas and not meds.
          So, I have learned from you a whole different scenario of a SHTF event.

          My list for things to hit first in my area is, ( just an opinion):

          1. Looters
          2. Those who need meds, drugs and alcohol
          3. Fuel
          4. food.


        • I just read a great article about this. The writer said to trash your own yard as soon as it happens, make it look like your house had already been raided. And to spray paint quarrantine across the front of your house. That will keep a lot of the sheeple away. Dont forget to blacken out your windows at night, and be very careful about cooking food. The scent of it will travel a long way. I think this will be crucial, especially in the first month after a collapse until they are thinned out. And of course, the lead for backup.

          • I don’t think spraying “Quarantine” on your house will fool anybody. It would be better to get a “Foreclosure” sign from a foreclosed property. Spread some trash across your yard. Things like empty plastic bottles, old newspapers, and catalogs.

      5. There are already shortages of several types of medications. I just received a notice of closure of a manufacturing plant in Nebraska that will be causing shortages of Percocet, Opana (oxymorphone) and other narcotic medications. This will impact cancer patients and the usual drug seeking crowd.

        The point is- drug shortages are already occuring. Other currrent shortages include: the antibiotic amikacin, several cancer treatments, injectable Haldol (keeps the hallucinations at bay), the anti tuberculosis medication isoniazid, and a number of injectable medications.

        • All the more reason to plant poppies (preferrably in a secure greenhouse behind a solid high fence) in order to harvest the opium. The rest of third world that doesn’t have money to buy or access to first world pharmaceuticals chews raw opium or takes it in a tea to help deal with old age maladies like arthritis, etc. Harvest the sap from the seed pods and simple preparation can distill it into morphine, codeine, etc. Those preparations will be worth more than their weight in gold when painkillers are unavailable. Medical procedures for all kinds of situations can be found free online (google when there is no doctor, when there is no dentist) but I cannot imagine doing or having them done to you by amateurs without narcotic painkillers of some kind.

        • I was at the Dr’s office this week with my wife. She had to get some steroid shots but they were out of a particular kind. The nurse said that there were shortages of several drugs. I asked her why she thought that was. She said something about it being the pharma companies running a scam, but it didn’t make sense to me. Very curious

      6. Last November people were beating each other up over toasters and TVs. Imagine what it would be like if it’s over a matter of survival. Mac recently had a YouTube link up for a show by the History Channel called After Armageddon. This show gives a pretty good sneak preview of life after a major catastrophe.

      7. Seems like we all need to find buddies with the same beliefs in the constitution, our rights, our freedoms… and most importantly the mindset to protect ourselves. Far too many people are not ready to do what’s necessary when the SHTF.

        I was one of those who thought I’d be ready to use a gun if I needed. I shot regularly, and was a great shot. When it came time to actually pull the gun, (not the trigger) I froze.

        Fortunately the situation quickly fell apart, but I realized one key lesson: I THOUGHT I was ready, I was wrong. Now I take training much more seriously.

        • The Schofield Kid: [after killing a man for the first time] It don’t seem real… how he ain’t gonna never breathe again, ever… how he’s dead. And the other one too. All on account of pulling a trigger.

          Will Munny: It’s a hell of a thing, killing a man. Take away all he’s got and all he’s ever gonna have.

          The Schofield Kid: Yeah, well, I guess they had it coming.

          Will Munny: We all got it coming, kid.



          …#10 cans — crisp $100 bills (inflation)…

          mushroom – accept no cheap imitations!


          • Clint Eastwood rocks!

        • where was this at if you dont mind me asking. was this in the miltary or in a home invasion or something similar? a lot of people think they are ready and that is a very good point to what you just said. you have to think of the person as somebody other than human or like a target or something if you have that ability. I was in the military for many years and know what you are saying. most people cant admit to this and others think its eazy but when it comes down under pressure and surprise it gets a lot of people.

          • I’ll leave the details vague for privacy. Thank you for your service. Semper fi.

          • Start with hunting and desensitizing yourself to the idea of killing something that was living. If you are unable to kill an animal then what makes you think you will be able to kill a human when the need arises?

            • My problem was always the night, when you are alone with your thoughts. That is the time when I couldn’t hide with hard work, or distractions. I made peace with myself, and me and god will have a long talk about it when we meet. My preacher says it will be okay, but I still am thinking I will have some explaining to do.
              Eric is right, you have work through them as you would any objective with no hesitation and no emotion. I won’t have any problem with someone that is a danger. The nightmares will come from the desperate people pleading peacefully. Those will be my nightmares.

            • @ The Moon….

              I was going to comment when I read this earlier and thought…no, better not. But here it goes, anyway.

              I would, sadly, have a lot more trouble shooting an animal than shooting a human. That is going to cause a lot of folks to think I’m a terrible person, and I’m cool with that opinion.

              Animals are going around, doing their animal thing, not threatening me. People, on the other hand, (at least the ones I’d be likely to shoot at) are out there, committing crimes against people and property. They know right from wrong. It would cause me far less grief to shoot and kill someone that was attempting to harm my family than it would to shoot an animal.

              For me, killing would only be acceptable if it was deserved and necessary.

          • Greetings,

            You are very correct.

            I was required to obtain a Military Science Degree as part of my college studies as related to ROTC and my becoming an Officer. At the same time, I was working on degrees in both Psychology and Sociology. Consequently, I spent a lot of time studying how the military struggled over the fact that, throughout its history, only a small percentage of soldiers on a battlefield even bother to use their weapons.

            We have fairly solid historical narratives going back to the Civil War that show that only about 25% of the men fighting for the U.S. are killers. The rest may choose to assist the killers by loading their weapons or “spotting” while some just stand there and wait to be killed.

            Not only that, the U.S. Army suffered the highest rates of Combat Fatigue of any fighting force during World War II. We got into the war several years after everyone else yet our soldiers “lost it” at a rate twice that of the Germans.
            As a matter of fact, we wouldn’t attack the Germans unless we greatly outnumbered them due to the problem of soldiers freaking out.

            This stuff really perplexed Uncle Sam so he paid to have some studies done. After all, if those scientists could build an A-Bomb them maybe they could figure out why Americans were not efficient killers.

            I wont bore you with the details but suffice to say that it was figured out and over time our soldiers now kill at a 90% efficiency rate.

            The only problem with the “retooling” is that it is really hard on the civilians. Anyway, most people without this kind of indoctrination would have a hard time responding to violence with violence.

            • I would agree with you BUT, a military situation is different that defending yourself and family, especially on your home turf.

              My own case in point. Had to draw down on 2 perps breaking and entering my property. No hesitation on my part. Down on the ground mother f…ckers at the point of a shotgun. They chose to back up and go down spread eagle. One step forward towards me and they were toast, plain and simple. My mind was clear as to what I would do. It was me and mine or them. Perps are perps.

              However, I can see the difference between my situation and someone fighting on the battlefield. Strange country, just some guy on the other side doing what he’s been told to do as you have been told, shoot em.

              When it comes to defending yourself or family, and your country on your home turf, I believe the situation with the hesitation is different. Sure there will still be those that won’t pull the trigger, but many more would that wouldn’t if they were in a strange land overseas.

              I may be wrong but don’t think so, at least with those on this site. We know who the perps are and will dispatch them with extreme predujice.

            • “prejudice” sorry, it’s late!

            • why spend money on studies when the reason is crystal clear. Google war is a racket! Violence with violence?? When it comes to protecting someone elses life who you love, THAT is EASY!

            • There are people who I would give my life for, or take one for to protect if I had to, with out hesitation! WITHOUT! I am sure many on this blog feel the same!

            • Greetings,

              Defending your home turf is the same regardless of whether or not your home is made of 2X4’s and drywall or it is a trench.

              In WWI it was observed that once an American unit was mixed up as could happen in a hasty retreat or having their trench overrun, those men would not stand and fight if attacked again but would, instead, immediately run away.

              This perplexed Uncle Sam because German soldiers would fight regardless of how you mixed them up.

              So, even in defense of their backup up trench, most men would rather run away than stand and fight.

              I realize that this is probably not what you would expect nor is it ever discussed in the media or in popular culture. But it is true none the less.

              Finally, keep in mind that the “retooling” that was needed to bring those numbers up have filtered down into our society as well, especially the idea that our enemies are something less than human. Also, our culture has benefited from 60 years of television that has helped desensitized people to violence.

              Finally, there is a reason why modern combat games are allowed (discretely) to be sold to children as it prepares them to be heartless killers for Uncle Sam or, sometimes, just for themselves.

              An excellent starter book on the topic is this:


        • I thought I was not – ready and when the time came, I was.


          The “crucible event” was in an airplane that was due, fairly immediately, to become junk in the middle of the Pacific Ocean. Instead I saved it, w/o much in the way of actual pilot training. Well what do you know, And now I know what a flashback is, as my brain processed it later at home, they are real. So cut some slack to that relative who thinks, momentarily, he’s still at Phu Bai, it’s real.

          You don’t know what you are, until you’re there, I guess.

          So now I keep in practice, for what’s to come. I kill possums and skunks and tasty doves, and innocent squirrels. I was the one in the family who’d kill innocent yummy fish, and now I work on warmer-blooded beings, because it’s needed in a rural place and also for the coming times.

          hey Schofield, what quad?

          • we have a hell of a coyote population..its great training, Medium target, predator, mostly they hunt at night so you learn to work in low light situations, and they come at their prey like a freight train and many of them all at once..

            target aquisition is a riot..if you have them in your area, give it a try
            great practice for taking out multiple targets at once in a hostile environment

            • VRF Same in my AO. My brother a few Friends and I hunt them all winter long. Your right they are good practice, but the main reason we kill as many as we can is because they are competition on game animals we eat.

        • Thankfully I’ve never had to kill anyone, but given the current state of things, it has been on my mind a lot as of late. I’ve been out of work for over two years here in Oregon. So I can’t pay for a training course for hand guns. (I just got myself a 9mm Ruger and a .223 for Christmas)When I was younger in my 20’s I was young and stupid enough to think I wouldn’t have a problem pulling a trigger on someone to take there life, but now that I’m in my mid 40’s I’ve learned critical thinking and the bottom line now with killing someone. I simply don’t know if I would be able to do it. The last thing I want to do is kill someone, but even more then that I don’t want my wife dead or even myself. I want to know what to expect if I did have to pull the trigger. If anyone knows of a web site that talks about such matter I’d like to know about it.

          • shtf school,he lived through the god awful mess of yugo.

      8. This week the Pacific Northwest had a snow and ice storm that prevented peopole from getting around, delayed busses and stopped trains from running. Trucks could not move over the super slick icy streets and the mountain passes were closed most of each day to clear avalances or downed trees etc so things just did not move in or out of the area for several days and that includes gas and food. And with power out cash was king. Many roads were closed to all traffic as it was just too slick (think half the state coated in super slick ice that even chains don’t seen to be able to grip. That is what we get here we the ice hits. Even snow plows can’t stay on the road.)
        Let me tell you that many people behaved themselves when picking up a few items to prepare for being housebound but many were pushy and aggressive in stores and parking lots and on the roads even before things got really messy. And this was just an inconvenience not an emergency or a long term loss of deliveries.

        • had exactly this last was a great lesson to me about how prepped I was, and what my area was going to be like in a shut down senario..not good for them

          I was ok, but saw almost every one in my area had to leave their homes because of no heat, or no heat and no electricity

          My place and one other neighbor out of 20 were up and running and good to stay the storm

          I never had to step foot in any store, or go out of my little street, but from what I learned from others about the shelves in stores painted a picture of a small scale of what it would be like short term..Not good at all

        • I’ve lived through that much many a time. Hurricanes, ice storms, once a Nor’easter blizzard that dumped seven FEET on Boston. In all cases the government infrastructure remained intact, the emergency was local, and people lived in expectation that things would be back to normal in a few days. (The blizzard took weeks, but within days there was basic food distribution, even though it took snowmobiles to make some deliveries.)

          Imagine the case where things go so sideways over such a large area that there aren’t enough sheepdogs nearby to prop up the maudlin marginals in the suburbs, let alone the D.O.’s in the big cities. The scenarios that can do that are legion. Major earthquakes in California, enemy action, sudden devaluation, civil war. . . . .

        • c this is why you gotta have food stores at home, and while cash is king, not needing cash is the Pope.

        • Same here in the south during the last hurricane. people arguing in Dollar General about the last item of food they both wanted.

      9. Just think about the people calling 9-11 because Mcdonalds got there order wrong.

        • BK delivers now …. just saying. 🙂

          • Do they really? Seriously?

            • Yes, BK is delivering now in limited ares, it’s a trial run.

            • Thats just so wrong……

      10. The ultimate problem, other than the one this video exposes is this…NO ONE alive in this country has ever encountered or dealt with the inevitable scenario that is about to “playout”.

        There is no “handbook” or recommended/endorsed “official” plan. And the reason for that is obvious. The more that die and/or kill each other in the initial stages of collapse, the better for THEM!

        If this “eye opener” doesn’t bring YOU understanding about the foundation of PREPPING, THEN YOU ARE ON THE WRONG SITE. Isn’t American Idolatry on some Lame-stream-channel tonight? How about YOUR favorite sports (bread and circus) event?

        The coming reality will ultimately exceed even the most feared nightmare in YOUR imagination. Good Luck too all, although vigilant preppers will rely on less luck than many others. But I will still take all the luck I can get.

        • Very nicely put. I don’t think many people understand how truly bad things have the potential to get. We get glimpses from time to time, such as Katrina. But when the SHTF on a national level, the breakdown of civility will come quickly. Remember, all this has happened before in history. It’s just Americas’ turn for the experience. good luck, and yes, I also will take all the luck I can get. But remember, luck favors the prepared.

      11. Mac, I’m thinking this is kind of overblown. A human can live a few weeks without food. They can probably a couple of months without the particular drugs outlined in the video, even if they go crazy. I hardly doubt that the collapse of the currency will be immediate, let alone instantaneous as assumed by the videographer. It will take quite a while for all of the services provided by the state and local governments to go belly up.

        But for the sake of discussion here, lets assume they did. No fuel, no power. No power, no water. A human cannot survive much longer than three days without water, although there have been reported instances of a few days longer. The bulk of the poplulation would die far sooner from lack of water than medications.

        I think this is a bit of fear mongering…those who visit this site are far better prepared than those identified in the video. I’m betting there is no one here living in a hotel while their apartment is being renovated. If you are, then got buy some water, as you can obviously afford to stockpile a couple hundred cases.

        I don’t think it’s wise to allow ourselves to be diverted by obscure what-if’s. The potential of being invaded by psychotropic drug addict zombies from the city is pretty low. The possibility of death by lack of water is far more likely in a total and complete shutdown of society. Besides, that is why most here have (I’m hoping) provided for water and a way to filter water for their families and themselves. Not to mention the projectile delivery systems to protect themselves.

        I would wager (an I’m prepared and betting on it) that the rest of the population will die of thirst and sanitation issues long before they run out of their prescription medications. GMAFB

        • We are not talking about the “druggies” the government supplies to keep the prison system full. We are talking about the “squeaky clean” soccer moms/dads and corporate executives as well as “blue collar” doctor prescribed “addicts” in this country. Anti-depressants, anxiolytics, pain killers, hormone replacement, etc.

          These currently “socially functioning” individuals will NO LONGER be intelligently functioning in this scenario. I would not underestimate the consequences associated with “sudden” withdrawal syndromes across the board. There will be no “weaning off” process.

          I have encountered enough “addicts”, both legal and illegal, to know what level of insanity accompanies that reality.

          • Get a grip here yental…if you think “the “squeaky clean” soccer moms/dads and corporate executives as well as “blue collar” doctor prescribed “addicts” in this country. Anti-depressants, anxiolytics, pain killers, hormone replacement, etc.” folks are more of a threat than not having a supply of potable water, then you’ve flunked survival 101 and you need to study some more about what it takes to survive.

            If they are that wacked out, then they won’t be a huge threat to you or me, but more of a threat to themselves and their immediate family. Most people in the situation that you are suggesting are a threat to themselves more than a threat to someone who is prepared. That is why suicide is a big issue among those who are hooked on the pharmaceuticals. In fact everyone described in the short video clip committed suicide. To protect myself from the potential hostile behaviour you suggest is why Mr. Glock and I have established a warm and close relationship. It is also why my family is trained and proficient in the use of firearms.

            If society is failing as quickly as you suggest, and apparently you have thought long and hard about it, I would think you would be even more prepared to protect you and yours. If not, go to your nearest gun store in the morning and meet Mr. Glock or at least as soon as you can.

            Water is far more of an issue than the failure to go to Walmart and buy a drug prescription. I would imagine the average person who is using these medications would have a generous supply of pills on hand than the water required with which to swallow them. Sanitation and disentary become real issues when you can’t flush the toilet and the sewer lines begin to back up into your abode or no water comes out of the faucet.

            You can live about forty days without food, three days or so without water, three hours or so without shelter in subzero weather, and about three minutes without oxygen. I would imagine these drug crazed zombies, as you fear them, would still have some food and probably shelter – even if it might get pretty cold without out power and exposure some to possibly deadly temperatures would be a factor. Most people won’t know what to do when they turn on the water faucet and no water comes out. After three days of nothing to drink the next issue will become breathing. The lack of these essentials alone will drive you crazy, even if you aren’t on psychotropic drugs. GMAFB

            • Perhaps I misunderstood the meaning of your initial post. I don’t disagree that defense and sanitary water will be the key to long term survival. My point is simply that “legal addicts” will represent as potent a threat as any “addict” when the supply drys-up. Some/many may well elect suicide. Others, possibly your neighbors may simply “lose it” and become violent.

              I, and apparently you, have prepped for either scenario. The initial “phase” of lack-of-drug-supply insanity will be short-lived, but potentially lethal, from what appear today as “reasonable people”.

              I am well prepared to protect me and mine. I don’t think we ultimately disagree, but I have first hand experience with the population I reference. Do not underestimate them in the short term. Before they are neutralized or go by other means, THEY are a real threat. Short term though it be.

            • @yentil…Agreed, they could, and I repeat could be a threat. I would simply suggest there are more lethal possibilities that threaten your survival than this particular scenario. It’s kinda like the person who thinks they are going to win the lottery and so they run out to buy a ticket, not realizing that the odds of being attacked by both a polar bear and a grizzly bear on the same day are better than buying the winning lottery ticket. I prefer to defend against the higher probability scenarios than zombies — but I’m prepared either way. – GMAFB

            • @GMAFB, polar bear/grizzly bear attack on same day equated with winning the lotto. I think that sums it up. BTW, highly visual analogy. We have probably spent more time discussing the “threat”, than the “threats” potential lifespan. But I have developed a “knack” for overkill analysis of ALL potential threats.

              I have a microphone installed in the fire ant hill 10 yards from my house to make sure THEY are not plotting to infiltrate my food preps. They may be small, but there are just so damn many of them. “Grocery list”: Buy more Andro.

            • Here you go, ex-nurse here, a more up to date article of just how many adults are now on anti-psychotics. Some of these are serious meds that range from 24 hours to 7 days+ to clear the body. Certainly one thing that is the top of their list is that bottle of pills, it probably even edges out food or water. Even in the best of times, people snap, throw chaos on that and many people, including those not currently on meds, will lose it. Some will just sit down and die, some will scramble for immediate needs, a few will go looking for what they need. These are people that can barely cope NOW, as things go south, what are they going to be like? Look around you’re neighbourhood, that neighbor you joke with, may be the one on haldol that be go ballistic when it’s suddenly discontinued.
              I lived thru the 2008 Ice Storm, eight days no power, I saw my broad horizons shrink to just several blocks overnight. I saw dozens of police cars sitting at the station, because the officers were AT HOME taking care of them and theirs. I saw business owners sleeping at their companies, to protect them from looters. I saw groups wandering the streets looking for easy marks. I saw an almost TOTAL breakdown of control in Tulsa OK. Within 8 hours of the onset of loss of power, you couldn’t hire an armed guard within 6 states, police enforcement was sketchy at best. I saw police officers go to impound yards and use impounded trucks to respond with. Pharmacies and jewellery stores were at the top of the loot list, next on the list were convenience stores. Until you have seen a whole city (Tulsa) thrust into darkness for days on end, it’s hard to comprehend. This is fact, not fearmongering. Don’t blow smoke on me how bad it WON’T get, I have lived thru a mini collapse, abeit a small one.

              One in Five American Adults Takes Psychiatric Drugs

              Read more:

            • @GMAFB & yental,
              Gosh, ya know in my state someone wins the fantasy 5
              EVERYDAY. Wonder why there’s nothing on the news about the bear attacks & lightning strikes associated with it?
              I agree that the odds of winning MILLIONS are slim to none
              but people do win the small stuff sometimes.

            • GMAFB: Ask any cop what it means when they show up to a disturbance call and the R/P says “he’s off his meds”. There is a big chance there is gonna be a fight or worse. If you had ever dealt with people on a regular basis who are off their meds, you would not be posting such drivel.

        • People have no fucking idea of sanitation in the real world, of real asepsis, of how to keep themselves clean and healthy on say 2 gallons a day. We can dip that out of our well, out of the local creeks, etc. But you gotta know what you’re doing.

          One of the great human accomplishments has been .. alcohol. Just for keeping clean, making extracts, etc. Drinking is almost the smallest part of it. Learn to brew and make a still.

          • I find myself agreeing with a domestic terrorist multible times on this post. Watchlist/fema camp here I come!

            • Let me tell you son,

              Just don’t tear that tag off of yer mattress like I done!

              (I chose this name because basically, anyone, everyone, is a terrorist now if They decide we are.)

        • Yep–GMAFB…and that inevitable death toll of the unprepared should have us thinking in terms of ‘what do we do with the bodies’??
          Pretty gross, huh?? If you can’t handle this one task, you’re not mentally prepared for TSHingTF.
          For if we don’t dispose properly, we may have more than zombies to worry about–like sanitation and health factors.

        • I agree completely with you on the water issue

          and your post is spot on

          but Ive delt with prescription addicts..and they are fuckin ugly as hell when they arent medicated and lazy, let alone the hard drug addicts

          so if they are smart enough to find or have water to get past the 3 to 4 days of survival..the lack of their fix is going to become a big problem

      12. I work in the medical field
        street druggies are and will always be a problem
        but there are far more drug addicts on prescription meds
        than you can imagine,
        when they get cut off
        LOOK OUT
        and its not only psychotropic meds
        if your on meds for heart arrythmias,BP,etc
        missing a few doses can be fatal
        the book ONE SECOND AFTER touched on this sort of thing

        • Satori, I agree with your post..

          When it comes to water, there is a lot of water around most of the United States, maybe not the cleanest, but it can be boiled.

      13. I was never a herion user or cocaine but i did have a bad back in my 30’s that I took hydrocodone for about 3 years. getting off that was hell and i do not wish that upon anyone. now i just take ibuprofin etc. I was very very active and in shape. still in better shape than 90 percent of the people. my point is try and get off that stuff and get a few supplies and be ready. Self talk yourself thru the bad and the really bad. think and imagine what you would do when SHTF. A lot of people are going to call 9-11 but nothing will be done. I think many people will set fires which a lot of stuff will be burned down to the ground everywhere, if a city get on fire the whole place will go. be safe and get a couple of alternative plans and also a water purfier and propel or some type of coolaid to add to regular water. you will get sick of drinking water and wish that you had a pepsi or some sugar drink. that is my 2 cents for today.

      14. While fear sells, and feeds the mind of the many, I suggest that reality is much different than that which is promoted in this video.

        The dollar is NOT ready to collapse.

        While I agree that a drastic paradigm shift will leave many confused, vulnerable, and suicidal. A general “financial collapse” cannot occur in America unless it is deliberate.

        Russia has a bigger drug problem than WE do, particularly with alcoholism, but yes, druggies, and many people on prescription drugs are mentally unstable.

        There will always be people who cannot cope with loss and Change. Don’t let it be you! Exercise, pray, meditate, and be involved with your family, friends, and community.

        “Dollar Collapse”? No way.

        In fact, the dollar is WAY too strong and it is the currency to which the real world flees in adversity: as it has since WWII. That is not going to change anytime soon.

        Don’t expect that to change nationwide without an EMP, full scale nuclear exchange between the major powers, a pole shift, or a major meteor hit.

        Those are the only scenarios that will initiate a “collapse”, “balkanization”, or a nationwide breakdown of society. Anything else is propaganda. Don’t believe it.

        By all means prep, people, but don’t BUY into the end of the world fantasies because you saw it in a video, it makes music, or it is advertised on TV.

        Its fantasy!

        • DK, I am getting the distinct impression that you “make a living” in one form or another, related to the stock market. The “dollars” strength is an illusion propagated by the real/percieved demise of the Euro and other currencies.

          “Dollar collapse?, no way” I find much of your commentary to have merit. But statements such as this one are either “head-in-the-sand” optimism, or blatant attempts at manipulating those still ignorant enough to “buy the strength of the dollar, till death do us part” fairytale for personal gain.

          Do you honestly believe the dollar is invincible? And if so, based on what? NO CURRENCY has been immortal. The dollar has already tested the limits of “fiat mortality”. How do you draw this “conclusion”?

          • @yental: If you go back and read through DK’s statements here he always leaves an out for himself. There is always something like “Unless they plan it”. That way he will never be wrong.
            The dollar currently is the prettiest girl in the bar at closing time. We all know how that turns up in the morning. The reason for strength is not strength in the dollar it is weakness in the Euro. If that collapses, all eyes will be on the dollar and our fiscal problems here. And we will fail eventually whether planned by the gov’t or just by loss of confidence.

            • Lots of wild cards in the deck.

          • @yental

            It’s called normalcy bias. I also think there is MAJOR manipulation. Having a world reserve currency puts you at the mercy of other countries when they stop believing in you. And of course those other countries don’t force you to pay $10 what it may cost one of their workers to produce for only $2.

          • Yental: No, the market is a casino. I own a precious metals mine and I only own stock in my own company. Neither am I a trader. The markets are rigged.

            Still, I believe it is possible to make money there if you want to watch it all day every day, or if you can find select JR mining and energy companies, buy them and hold until the majors pick them up.

            That doesn’t intrigue me, but I would suggest anyone that is interested in the market to read THE WALL STREET GANG, by Richard Nye.

            Its probably out of print now for 20 years but explains what is currently happening with volatility.

            Yes, for the time being and the foreseeable future, the dollar IS invincible. FRN’s are the currency of the GB to use as they please, to their benefit, and according to their design for world domination.

            The world is not yet dominated. The crisis in Europe is part of that struggle. The crisis in Iran is at its essence about who is going to rule the world; and whose rules WE are going to play by.

            Competition is allowed only within select parameters.

            Jeff: My point exactly. The dollar is up because the Euro is in the pits. Actually, the pound should be too if currency values were based on economics and not manipulated by the GB’s, as their debt to GDP ratio is TWICE that of the US.

            The intent and plan by the FED is to push the dollar down to mitigate US debt and make US more “competitive” with a debased dollar.

            Can’t really do that when the rest of the world (except for China, Germany, Canada, and Switzerland)all have weaker currencies.

            America workers are the most productive in the world. WE can only become “competitive” by having a weaker dollar or repudiating “Free Trade”, NAFTA, GATT, and the WTO.

            I prefer the latter.

            Mike: I am not leaving an “out” for myself. Life is plastic. WE shape OUR destiny by the choices WE make. That includes the financial choices of the GB’s and the PTB: especially the GB’s and PTB when it come to the dollar.

            If and when they are done with the dollar they may well dump it as they did the pound, but that wouldn’t be anytime soon. Much I think depends upon the coming war with Iran.

            Depending on how long that takes for Regime Change, anything could happen, like a Bretton Woods III afterwards that would establish a new monetary system.

            I don’t claim to see how everything in the future falls out as life is plastic and events fluid, but it is extremely clear to me that there is no “Dollar Collapse” anytime soon.

            There is no profit in “collapse”. Profit in inflation, profit in deflation, but no profit for the GB’s and PTB in collapse.

            Follow the money Mike.

            • DK I want to apologize to you. I went to bed last night and it bothered me. My statement wasn’t meant to ridicule you and it feels as though I was.
              I enjoy these websites because there is large amounts of educated people. Both formally, and through life experiences. I learn alot from everyone here and am thankful for that.
              You and I can dissagree about almost everything economically. It is only because we are operating on two very different assumptions. From what I can understand, you are assuming that the global governments are going to be able to continue to manage the dollar or any economy until the their time of choosing failure. I am assuming that they are going to loose control from a spiralling effect whether that comes from another government trying to gain global power and minimize our power or from people losing confidence. Both of our scenarios are very possible. Your scenario depends on global cooperation, mine depends on a power shift and lose of control of populations.
              But when you make conclusive statements, that makes only your statements correct and everyone else’s wrong.

              There are hundreds of different personalities on this site. Just read yesterdays arguments and you will see. My opinions are not popular at times either, but because they are not popular doesn’t mean they are incorrect, they are derived from a different perspective. If people dissaggree with me I want them to voice it, i learn more from opposing viewpoints than I do from aggreements.

            • Mike: No harm, no foul buddy. I never had a second thought about it. Don’t you either.

        • Everyone is entitled to their opinion, and you can believe what you want. I think you are living in a fairy tale world, and have been watching too much lame stream media coverage of the economy.
          There are many different scenerios that can play out in the economic downfall of an economy. Right now, the only thing keeping the uS dollar alive, is the continous printing of more dollars. The FED has used every other tactic that they can, and they are out of tricks. Plus, the “reserve” staus of the US dollar is eroding rapidly. China and Russia now trade crude oil valued in their native currencies, and not the dollar. This is a big step in the demise of the reserve status of the dollar.
          In my opinion, a collapse absolutely can happen, but that doesn’t necessarily mean it will happen right away. The dominos are being stacked daily, and can fall at any time though.

          • GM: I do not watch LSM. I read Alt Media primarily. I like to hit all the news links and blogs at SHTF America and SHTF Economics.

            I read a lot, but I form my own opinions based upon my own analysis formed from my formal education, experience, and special expertise.

            I like to do my own thinking, which is why I know there is no dollar collapse anytime soon, except for the four “outs” that I gave myself.

            Pole shift, nuclear war between the major powers, EMP, or a meteor hit. Otherwise, its just business.

            • You might not be factoring in the “intentional” factor. Soro’s has called for the death of the dollar, when someone like him says that, well that’s a stunner, more and more countries are choosing to deal in other currencies and stockpile gold to protect their sovereignty. How much would you’re mine stock be worth, in say yuan or yen? My advice, is learn to speak Chinese, I think it might come in handy the next few years.

              China Wants To Construct A 50 Square Mile Self-Sustaining City South Of Boise Idaho

            • Watcher: Gold is a global commodity and will have a price set by the global marketplace.

              The exchange rate will vary depending upon the currency used when it is sold.

          • They are not out of “tricks” revaluation of GOLD!

        • @DK: you’re absolutely right! if there was going to be inflation, then it would be reflected in the M1 measurement, which is less than 1. There is no inflation, so how can there be a hyperinflationary crisis leading to dollar collapse?! All over the world people flock to the dollar because it’s safe! Good points. As for your weird rants about free trade, I disagree.

          • Butcher: Free Trade is not Free. And it is not Fair. It is managed trade, managed by the GB’s for the GB’s.

            FREE TRADE is a euphemism.

            It is sold to Americans as a FREEDOM because Americans love freedom. Free Trade is a demonic scheme designed to enrich the Uber Rich at the expense of the American middle class, destroy their financial power and eventually their liberties.

            It is designed to make them economic serfs.

            That is why the 6,000 richest families in America have increased their wealth by more than $100 million each over the past 30 years, while the wealth of the middle class has been decimated and their liberties eroded.

            That is why 51% of the population makes less than $27k a year, 46 million Americans receive food stamps and government assistance, and employment is at 16% (SS).

            • I meant UN-employment. But you all knew that!

          • I once read that hyperinflation is not merely more inflation, but a ‘disorderly economic progression that leads to complete psychological rejection of the sovereign currency.’ If this it true must it necessarily require more supply, or could it result from lower demand such as loss of reserve currency status?

            • PP: Currency reserve status of the Dollar will not end anytime soon under normal circumstances as it is the vehicle for world domination by the GB’s.

              Why would they give up their most potent weapon for control over US and everyone else?

              That said, war changes everything and depending upon how long the war with Iran lasts and how long it takes the Rmb to become completely fungible, a “basket of currencies reserve status” scenario could emerge afterwards.

              But even that is years away.

        • DK,

          America is not immune to ultimate crisis.

          And, this:

          is not sustainable…

          • With this current debt, and the prospective debt not even spoken of (like 200 trillion??), any human that sees a positive way to circumvent a collapse is smoking too much weed.
            What is that figure of national debt to GDP ratio again???
            Yeah, we’re gonna be okay…BS

            ‘If you aren’t scared yet, you’re not paying attention’ has been my motto for 3 years….and I’m sticking with it.

            • I agree, and if your weed is that good, quit holdin’ out, and pass it around!

              Looking at the Debt Clock is very sobering, at least for me. It alone is a cause for great concern, if there were’nt like 500 other things happening at the same time.

            • JJ: OUR debt to GDP ratio is 100% which is much lower than any other major nation except Germany and China, which are in the high 80’s low 90’s if memory serves me correct.

              Debt is the remainder from income and spending. WE have a $15 trillion dollar economy even under the present circumstances.

              Eliminate subsidies for China, $300 billion; for Illegals $300 billion; for Mexico under NAFTA $100 billion.

              Eliminate the One Trillion Dollar annual subsidy for hydrocarbons and even at 20% that’s an additional $200 billion a year savings.

              Make multinationals like GE and 30 other companies pay their fair share of taxes and you have generated another $100 billion in revenue.

              The wars in Iraq and Afhganistan have cost another Trillion dollars over the last 10 years. $200 billion a year IN addition to a $700 billion military budget.

              WE do not have a debt problem. WE have a spending problem. The debt can be addressed by addressing the spending problem. It would be easy to cut at least $1.5 trillion every year if there was some political will.


        • durango kid
          at this point to completely dismiss the possibility ,if not the probability of a dollar collapse is going to fall on deaf ears…. and i agree…. it will collapse as their is nothing to hold it up… what youre saying possible?sure its possible… but to dismiss the other possibility is denial at this point.. grow up pal.

          • eeder: Its not denial, or normalcy bias. Its a fundamental understanding of the mechanics of the Federal Reserve which I have, and the rest of you do not.

            That is why I have stated “No hyperinflation” for the past 18 months here, while the rest of you have been running around saying the sky is falling and hyperinflation is just around the corner.

            NIA for example, last year at this time, said there would be hyperinflation by last summer. Well that was more than six months ago and there is no hyperinflation.

            One of US was wrong. Guess who.

            • durango kid,
              i fully understand the mechanics of the federal reserve as you do. the point is the federal reserve is not rock solid either… i agree with you that most people dont understand the timeline of how these things may play out…. but the foundation of the fed has been given a shock, no question in my mind… look at them coming out with predictions of policy for years ahead now!!! they are in protection mode, the dollar could collapse within 10 years in the right atmosphere… probaly not any sooner though.

            • eeder: The mechanical structure of the Federal Reserve is nothing less than demonic genius; with the emphasis on demonic.

              No one hates the GB’s more than I do, but I have to give credit (excuse the pun) where credit is due.

              The system has worked remarkably well and thus far Uncle Ben has done a great job avoiding a crash; even with the QE, which would be worse than inflation for most Americans.

              That doesn’t mean I don’t believe he and others do not belong in jail or worse, I am just saying that so far he has managed the crisis well, all thing considered.

              If you understand the mechanics of the FR then you know that FRN’s can be extracted from the system as easy as they are injected into the system, so at the right time, FRN’s can be siphoned out of the system.

              The war with Iran will delay that process for an indefinite period of time. In the meantime, if the dollar is not weakened by printing, and the status que continues, the drain on America’s economy will continue and the wealth of the middle class will be totally extracted.

              Note this: Newt is talking about bring gold back to support the dollar. Insanity! Total insanity! All that would do is transfer all American gold to the GB’s and Uber Rich as long as the current trade system is in place.

              It would do nothing to stablize this country. It is the next step toward One World Government.

      15. we will lose a lot of people with people that need insulin etc. that is a big chunk. many who need blood pressure etc will take a few months before they get problems but that will cause many more stress and high BP and they will be a big chunk. the young dont have experience with weapons and common sense to a point and you know what I mean (life experience). So we will see many many dead if the medical facilities shut down.

      16. Nature abhors a vacuum & at some point the authorities will lose control. The resultant urban power vacuum will be filled by racial orientated gangs, armed with heavy weaponry. A TEOTWAWKI time-line is likely to span a decade or so. Therefore, sooner or later, the gangs will eventually seek dominance over adjacent rural areas. Take heed!

        Thomas Chittum predicted this future scenario back in the early ’90s. If you can scrounge up a used copy from, its definitely worth the effort to secure a copy for study. His book was entitled: Civil War-II

      17. Look at the postive thing of this! YOu wont have to pay taxes or owe any bills, you can survive and do what you need to make it. this is an exciting time for many of us that read this daily. in a way we dont want this to happen but part of us do and think about that if Im wrong give me a thumbs down, but if you read this daily im right and you looking out for your future and you. SO that proves my point that you are getting ready for some type of default or collapse. Make a pos out of it. Life should be free from bills/laws etc as long as we dont hurt others and be honest. Be strong gang

        • “in a way we dont want this to happen but part of us do”

          Absolutely. Don’t get me wrong, its not going to be easy. But, just assess, adjust. I think most of us here have already adjusted. Like seeing a really tall hill in the distance on an icy road, you speed up so you can make it over. …so we have. We pack in extra food and supplies and think about things to come.

          One thing that might change for the better: We all might start enjoying more down to earth activities like each others company, a simple card game or a barbeque or even shooting, fishing, hunting and gathering.

          In our current world there is work and there is play. In my world there is no such line. I enjoy everything that I do. We need to celebrate life and the fact that we have the strength to cut our wood or haul our water or kill and prepare game. Work? Yeah. Fun too.

          Things are about to change. In any change there is bad and good. Celebrate the good. Fight the bad. Its really not all that different than what we’re doing now. (…we’ll all just be a little thiner!)

          • The first thing we ridded ourselves of was the tv..because of the propaganda?? Sure..but also the money saved allowed me to prep better..and dh is reading, first time in his lifetime..and I get better news from alternative sites online.
            So, not having tv for 3 years has prepared us for other entertainment in the future.
            I bought 32 books at a flea market, $1 each. Going back for more soon.

      18. Greeting Everyone!
        Things are getting a bit frayed everywhere.The good Book(make of what you will)states that in the “last days” of the dying system that terrible things would be happening the world over.Not to the same degree or the same problems alike,but happening during the same time period described in Matt.24 and to a lessor degree in Daniel 2:44.
        Discounting the Bible’s writings,we still are in for THE CHANGE.Things have already gotten bad in Greece,Estonia,Argentina(for a decade or more there!)and with more to come with no end of it in sight.Multinational Corporations are doing their Damn level best to ruin our food,air and water supply.I won’t digress about the D.C. thugs in Congress. Things were terrible in the Great Depression(people were trying to sell their babies to afford food!).Our latter-day version if things continue will be of a greater magnitude of horror.We might call ours “THE TOTAL SYSTEMIC COLLAPSE”.Here in America,we might be the last place to “fail” or at least one of the last 5.The UBER-RICH and their minions are pulling out their cash from Europe(perhaps even China too!)and running here as quickly as they can.

        Got your towel yet?(from Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy)
        I hear that zombies make great yard decorations,like pink flamencos,but moving!
        Best to All

      19. The only thing I buy now are silver and gold. This is the age of thieves. They will steal the IRA and 401k next. My final act on this planet will be to borrow huge amounts of money from the bankers..then default…leaving metals to my kid privately. I hope it all collapses…as metals will revalue. ps. screw you Obama and fat Barney Frank…the fat asshole.

        • yes and the one good thing frank has done , coming together with ron paul on the paul/frank marijuana bill will never see the light of day in congress as they fiddle while dc burns with the fucking NDAA SOPA PIPA AND THE PATRIOT ACT……youre gonna fiddle guys , arent you…. what a shame what weve all created…. a disgrace.

      20. I visited a lot of people when they were institutionalized for periods of time and one of my best friends is on one of these drugs they talked about. I have seen her when she runs out of medications and while it is not pretty, it is nothing to fear compared to the things hungry people will do to feed their families. While the transition for alcoholics, drug addicts, and tobacco users will be rough, this will coincide with the severity of the violent transition to a third-world country so it will not be considerably different.

        I went from being rich and popular one day to moving in with my parents with just the clothes on my back the next. I have forgotten how many times I have heard the death rattle of people dying violent deaths. I even have blood on my own hands.

        Our natural reaction is to try to do something, to fix something, to exert our will on our environment. I believe road rage is often a result of people realizing that they do not have complete control even in their car. Sometimes Xbox is the only place where people can do so. I found in emergency services that the key to surviving traumatic events is to do nothing until our perception catches up to reality. It may sound cowardice to ‘hunker in the bunker’ during the initial days of collapse, but that is what I am going to do while listening to the shortwave, the scanner, and the CB base station among others. My family will eat food storage and take propane powered hot showers and play board games while adjusting to the transition for life in a small city to permanently living in our solar-powered, wood-heated cabin.

        • PP: I don’t think that getting an accurate picture of what has happened, then formulating a plan from that information is cowardice at all. That is my plan as well. Before I can make a wise decision, I have to have as much knowledge about what is happening and try to understand what may happen in the immediate future. That will take time to accumulate and digest.

          You mentioned you have an instant water heater hooked up to a LP tank the other day. You have a site for that heater or configuration? Was kind of wondering if I couldn’t use something like that to recirculate my water in livestock tanks inthe winter.

          • Mike: My water is pressurized by a 12 volt DC pump for an RV. When I turn the hot water tap, it senses a drop in line pressure which switches on the pump. There is a sensor in the propane ‘tankless water heater’ (available at or Ebay that detects flow and ignites the burner. The temperature is adjusted by the mix of hot and cold and the flow rate.

            There are also solar and propane livestock tanks like the ones available from and that may work better. I do not know much about them.

            • I just bile water on the stove (which has a leak I can’t find so I turn on the propane at the bottle outside only when I’m actually using it) in a big pot, add cold water, use a vienna sausage can for a dipper. I call it a deluxe bath.

            • DT- Make a soapy water solution in a spray bottle & spay down your lines to find the leak (looking for bubbles). You can also disconnect feed line & pressurize the stove with compressed air. No more than about 10psi. You will find the leak. —

      21. Thanks yental for saving me rebutal time with Durango. The dollar is up ONLY because of euro weakness…It is our debt that will take us down. 2012 will be a VERY bad yr….cypress…wish it true that we will handle the pressure of the greatest depression like our grandparents. But we have dropped so far on the humanity scale we are almost comparing oranges with apples…..Repeat after me….their is no way in hell we will react with civility when the SHTF….ScoutMotto summed it up earlier…. ScoutMotto says:
        January 20, 2012 at 8:57 pm Last November people were beating each other up over toasters and TVs. Imagine what it would be like if it’s over a matter of survival…..any questions ?

      22. dk, all of us here are thinking beings with our own researched opinions and possible future outcomes. i myself do not think U.S. is somehow immune from total systemic failure. however, you are spot on about getting involved with family and community. a single family, even very well prepped, is doomed. the very fist communities evolved from the need of safety in numbers. people had to band together to protect crops and homes. your very survival will depend on others watching your back as you do the same. we all need to sleep sometime. i have witnessed first hand the utter barberism that humans are capable of. when the very thin veneer of social restraint is gone we are far more dangerous than any (wild) animal. i have seen people murdered for $16.00. we need to connect with like minded people if only for mutual defense. truly, united we live, alone or in small group we die. law of the jungle. as far as waking others up, what can i say, i would bet most of us here have been ridiculed and called crazy for just breaching this topic. i am sad to say even some in my own close family refuse to see (the normalcy bias at play) i am in north rural Fl and am putting together a said group of families on the same page as mine. regretfully, to few people can except our inevitable fate. i beg, think community

      23. Oh don’t worry so much! Everyone will just get together and chant “Yes we can” (or, more helpfully, “Yes, we have no bananas” and wait for Obama’s nanny state to come rescue us with…. uh… ummm. our OWN dollars.

      24. If the worst were to happen, and all of the systems on which Americans depend – things like just-in-time food transportation, law enforcement, medical response and the normal flow of commerce – were to suffer long-term disruptions, how long would it take for the relative peace and safety in America to devolve into complete pandemonium?

        That’s why we have weapons and ammo dude!
        Y’all Beware!

        Semper Fi

      25. Q: What’s the diff between Bernie Madoff & Don Jon Corzini?

        A: Nuthin’

        • Bernie didn’t have Soros’ blessing….just a guess. 😉

        • madoff actually went to prison for what he did… it seems corzine may get off scott free.

        • Bernie was never one of BHO’s closest advisors and supporters.

      26. mushroom,
        Yeh, I can see you now, sitting in your favorite lounge chair in front of your computer with a nice cup of…. amazing psilocybin tea…pastin your now famous signature on a label that says:
        …#10 cans — crisp $10 bills…
        mushroom – accept no cheap imitations!

        Copyright your signature dude and protect your name!

        …#10 cans — crisp $10 bills…
        mushroom – accept no cheap imitations!
        If not then I here by copyright this signature upon this post’s time and date, for Gloers, LLC a company located in South Carolina; and to release all right to print, media, internet, et all to mushroom – who will accept no cheap imitations when he sends his official seal to [email protected] .
        There upon, all rights of your name will be protected and filed for folks to review. Here in stated this day or our lord, fill it out dot com.

        Y’all Beware!

      27. Damn,

        I just looked at the video. Shootin Zombies is ok huh!?!

        Y’all Beware!
        You’re still alive so you can!

        Y’all Beware! Yeh, I got the .com

      28. I’ve always wondered how 30% of the country would react if they don’t have thier meds…

        My geuss is many will not be able to cope and commit suicide, and will only become dangerous when they get hungry. Many will be frightened, and overwhelmed by stark reality and will simply shut down, then be killed off by those who really are dangerous.

        This is not a great threat in and of itself, but is worth considering as part of the overall scenario. When TSHTF, even the least likely thing to occur, can occur, and become the most dangerous.

      29. JR: I think Jon Corzini was “hit” by JP Mprgan and Goldman Sachs for getting too big for his britches.

        Not that he didn’t deserve it, but the GB eat their young when they are fattened and well FED.

        Excuse the pun!

      30. Back on the original subject: I can’t watch video as my sat link is too slow tonight. But I can list a few folks who simply perish pretty quickly. Type One diabetics – obvious. There’s a population that has to take a synthetic thyroid. Cut that off, and they’re dead in weeks. I’m a type 2 diabetic. I get a couple of years, maybe. The second one I won’t be much good for anything, because I’ll be blind. Finally, I myself have been on a mild antidepressant, (years ago, never again!). Even a staged withdrawal from the drug was “interesting”. To someone without my ’60s experience of psychotropic substances, I can see real insanity would be a distinct possibility, especially if the victim goes cold turkey. The idea that a sudden cutoff of psychopharmaceuticals could create a pretty large population of potentially violent maniacs seems pretty credible to me, especially in a time of high stress. Been there, seen that, burned the T-shirt.

        • Go to Canada Meds or any one of several others and for 3-400 bucks get a years supply of drugs. Unless you want a lifetime of spam, do it from someone elses computer

        • old coach
          yeah you been ther done that, and you still dont know a fucking thing…. jesus you people are the devil reincarnate…….may the lord abolish all baby boomers to hell.

          • So tell me eeder, why do you waste your time here?

            I see few signs of anyone agreeing with your posts, and we won’t even count musheadroom because he’s clearly an idiot. If everyone here is the devil reincarnate and you don’t trust anyone under thirty or if they are a ‘boomer’. If you believe it is all the fault of the government and it’s policies. Or the moron politicians in washington, or if we don’t all vote for Ron Paul then nothing will change, then you should spend your time in d.c. changing the world. Join the Ron Paul campaign and get him elected. I’m sure he would appreciate the your contribution of the vast, worldly 38 years of wisdom and knowledge you possess. Who knows, there might be a cabinet post in it for you. Then you will really have an impact.

            You aren’t going to make a lot of friends here, let alone survive what is very soon about to come, if you persist with the attitude you continue to demonstrate. Boomers aren’t your problem, the government and politicians aren’t your problem, those under thirty aren’t your problem.

            The only problem you have is YOU – Because you clearly are not in control of your own life. What you are demonstrating here in your posts is known as fear. Fear can be a useful emotional response when understood and used effectively. When it is ignored as a primary problem it often results in death. If you continue to live in a state of fear you are trapped in a prison of your own making.

            There are many boomers and others who go ageless here who have given you good, solid advice. But you simply discount it because they’ve “been there and done that” or it has to be their fault because they were hardworking boomers and got out an earned a living and took care of themselves and provided the best they could for their families in the same environment in which you find yourself. Apparently your father is a boomer, it’s his fault too, he obviously didn’t vote for the right one either. He must have done a few things right, you have at least reached the age 38.

            Until you finally decide to stop waiting for government to get fixed or to fix something for you, or the right politician to get elected or someone else to ‘do something and fix it’ whatever the IT of the moment happens to be. And looking around yourself and blaming everyone and everything you see for the problems we (YOU) face and ASSUME complete personal responsibility for the only thing YOU have any control over – YOURSELF, then you are stuck in that prison of your own making. Your actions are that of a spoiled child who didn’t get his way. If you proceed on the course you have plotted, I would have to grudgingly admit that musheadroom is right when he said you’ll probably die in the first wave.

            If you aren’t in control of yourself, someone else is controlling you.

            I’m sure I’ll get a big go f*ck yourself from you for this – that’s what I got from my kids when I told them the truth about their attitude and behaviour – I get a lot of gee dad, you were right nowadays…but I meant what I said and I’ve said what I meant.

            This boomer wishes you well and hopes you plot a new course while the wind is still at your back and your sails aren’t in tatters. GMAFB

            • Best post yet…and thats saying alot because the posts on this article are some of the best I have ever read here.

            • nice speech fella, however you are wrong… again…. and this is why the world will fail ultimately… we live in a gerentocracy….. it has gotten so bad that i belive it can not be reversed easily , if at all. essentially, you and others like to keep youth down for your own intentions, keeping them like children for so long they will never grow up. worse, you will never understand what youve done, and will not relinquish your grip on the system and the economy until it collapses or you do…. at this time no one will look after you or the many other baby boomer aged people out there…. if we dont have our youth, we have nothing.. so thats what youve created and what we obviously have for hope in the future… NONE!

            • essentially you are an evil man and a fucken joke… go to hell.

            • Eeder….Dude, you’ve gotta chill out some!

              You have so much enthusiasm and passion that sometimes it seems to get the better of you and you end up insulting people’s very valid opinions. We’re all here because we feel that we have the right to express those opinions. It may be momentarily gratifying to tell people off, but it’s no way to bring people over to your way of thinking…

              Take a deep breath and remember why your here, buddy!

            • @eeder – I never argue with a fool, onlookers can’t tell the difference. GMAFB

            • im sorry daisy , youre right… i just feel that baby boomers, barack obama , runaway favortism in the form of feminism, socialism,zionism and the evil communist agenda of barack obama , as well as the sissification of our society ,especially of young people , by baby boomers, as well as runaway debt ,are the biggest evils of our time. I believe they must be stopped at all costs… the stakes for our very survival are at stake.

          • You just lost a second time.

          • eeder- you are 38, I’m 56. Please realize that people my age have had at least a generation to become addicted to “the system”. You are at the age my children are right now, and as I said earlier, my OWN children are seeing that I’m not so stoooopid as they once thought. The addiction to the system is relative to the length of time a body spends IN it. Your generation now sees the faults of our generation, just as WE see the faults of our parents… relativity — pure and simple. FOR EXAMPLE, look at the responses of some on this site– they cannot get beyond the monetary loss ahead of them that they themselves have become accustomed to. Don’t be harsh on us as we don’t have a frame of reference such as your generation…. give us time to adjust to this scenario and judge accordingly, at a LATER date. BTW, I agree on much of what you say.

            • LRD
              the problem is we really dont have the time you need to adjust… which i acknowledge you do. you need to be snapped out of your daze before you create nuclear and economic havoc so bad that we all will die. thats the problem… you will never snap out of it. i probaly never would think your stupid but over time i would see the faults you have and lose respect for you.. im just a different kinda cat… anyhow… only god will really know our destiny… may he have mercy on us all.

        • It pisses me off that so many people put up videos and say “just watch this neat video”, while for a lot of us, the Internet isn’t what it was 10 years ago, and watching the nice video just ain’t gonna happen.

          So how about a transcript or link to one, also?

      31. Just watched the video over at DTOM. You guys are great! Keep up the hard fight. Coach David

      32. This is my first time leaving a comment, although I have been visiting this site for the last few months.
        I live in Southern California (I have all my life). Sometimes I feel like the only conservative in the region. I started visiting this site because I have been experiencing an increasing feeling of uneasiness about what is going on in this country. What bothers me a great deal is that…nobody here cares! I am in my early 30s. I go to work and there is NOBODY I can talk to about the state of our country. Same with family and friends (with the exception of my husband). Politics? Economics? Foreign Affairs? Nobody here wants to think about any of that. They are more concerned with American Idol, Kim Kardashian, online dating, the shoes they want to buy, and whether or not they should get hair extensions.
        I have to admit, I am getting scared. I feel like I can hear the train coming, and yet we are all still playing on the tracks. It is so baffling to me that all the dominoes are falling, and nobody in my world is concerned.
        This is why I appreciate this site SO much. Not only for the articles generated by Mac Slavo, but for the commenters as well. I just wanted to thank all of you in this online community for helping me feel not AS alone, even if I am surrounded by a bunch of superficial nut jobs.

        • “I have to admit, I am getting scared. I feel like I can hear the train coming, and yet we are all still playing on the tracks. It is so baffling to me that all the dominoes are falling, and nobody in my world is concerned.” Sounds to me like “you get it” Shannon.

          BTW, good analogy, because the “train is coming”. The Lame-stream-media and gooberment are still making too much noise for the “majority” to take notice. And when it appears “something” may result in “waking or alerting” too many additional sheep, THEY simply turn up THEIR volume to keep-the-sheep grazing on the tracks.

          Sounds like your husband is “onboard” so start putting together basic preps now. This is not a process you need to discuss with family/friends that still don’t want to know…and that is the REAL problem…most don’t want to know.

          Good luck and go-with-your-gut.

          • Thank you Yental, I appreciate that. 🙂

            • same here i to have been reading this about a year now ,it has really felt good to know that i’m not alone in what i think is coming to pass! i’m 60 years old and trying to put back for whats to come. dont see to many women on here. everybody just hold on its gonna be a wild ride!

        • Shannon, I can relate to your concern. One thing I would suggest to you is, when you talk to be people at work, ease into the conversation about your concerns with politics , economics and ect…… You might find a like minded person to talk to, but they might be afraid to talk to you about the affairs of our nation, because they don’t want to look like a nut-case in front of their co-workes.
          I had co-workers scratch their heads about me when I talked about y2k years ago.
          So now, I usually just keep my mouth shut at work.

          You and I have a family here with the SHTF crew, so welcome aboard! 🙂

          • I got warned by the chief executive to shut up every time anything involving future problems cropped up.

            I am in the NHS and there is much training and planning going on the major catastrophe side. Apparently asking why is not acceptable.

            The NHs is broke so spending this kind of money on drills is unheard of.

            Take care

          • Eagledove, thank you. 🙂

        • Shannon, I can relate to you. Almost 51 here only I can’t talk to people about this…just beyond their comprehension…my husband especially. Prepare your heart, soul for what is to come. God bless.

          • Dog, luckily I can talk to my husband about these things. But when we are the only ones who seem to be concerned about the state of our country, I start to feel like WE are the crazy ones. I learned quickly to keep my thoughts to myself at work, as I do not want to be considered “eccentric” by my coworkers. Thank you for your feedback. 🙂

      33. The death toll will be huge,how come so many Americans are on drugs.

        • I understand why Americans on drugs concerns you, but it is over here as well, every other person you speak to seems to be depressed and popping happy pills to buoy them up.

          I do not get this, yes things happen that make us as individuals feel down at times, but this is different, we have healthcare, we have. Benefit system that is in my opinion as a past recipient, generous. There is no true poverty, though when you look at them, dripping in gold, expensive phones and all designer clothes all they do is moan about ow bad their life is, they pick up the latest x-box game on the way to the doctors to pick up their free Prozac…makes me sick.

          Take care

      34. The ironic part is that anyone would think 10% of the population on drugs is a normal thing, and that if they were taken off those drugs, it would be a bad thing.


        Open Letter To Children Everywhere

        By Steve Salmony

        20 January, 2012

        Please examine carefully and skillfully what is willfully ignored and conspicuously unexplored. Many ‘experts’ appear to have sold out to the “one percent” by participating in the widespread denial of science regarding the issue of human population dynamics/overpopulation. On the one hand we are confronted by the deafening silence of reputable scientists and on the other we have pseudo-scientists who broadcast whatever self-serving thought, contrived logic and ideology their benefactors demand. The human community is being deceived with false promises and directed down a primrose path by unsavory, mutually aggrandizing leaders. These so-called leaders are erroneously believed to possess the intellectual honesty, moral courage and will to act boldly that is required to acknowledge, address and overcome the colossal threat posed to future human well being and environmental health by the unbridled growth of absolute global human population numbers.

        Any exploration of what is being consciously avoided and deliberately denied would include, I suppose, an examination of the best available scientific evidence related to the most accurate placement of the human species within the natural order of living things as well as all the seminal research related to the way the world we inhabit actually works. Perhaps rigorous scrutiny of “human creatureliness”, an easily observed aspect within the breadth of humanness, could be a point of investigation. Very little attention and research has been dedicated to this aspect of our all-too-human nature. Another point of inquiry has to do with the nature of the world we inhabit, with particular attention to the shape, make-up and ecology of Earth. Is our planetary home flat or round? Is the Earth like a teat at which the human species (and life as we know it) can forever suckle or is the planet composed of limited resources that are being wantonly dissipated today? Is the ecology of Earth frangible and can its ecosystems be degraded by human pollution to a point at which the Earth could become unfit for human habitation?

        Children, why not invite your friends, parents, teachers and other elders like me to speak truthfully with you about what efforts are being made to assure all of you a good enough future by pursuing a path toward sustainability? Despite your elders’ claims of ignorance about what it means to live sustainably, do not be fooled. They are playing stupid. The challenge for you is to call out your elders and insist they immediately acknowledge that no one with wealth and power in the one percent wants to stop what is known today as “business as usual” practices, much less sensibly begin to plan for the right-sizing of ‘too big to fail’ corporations. Open discussions are everywhere eschewed of plans for transitioning away from the pernicious legitimization of transnational corporate ‘persons’. Too-big-to-succeed business empires are being grown ever larger rather than “powered down” into sustainable enterprises, ones that can co-exist with life as we know it on a planet with the size, composition and environs of Earth. To this end, perhaps you can speak loudly, clearly and often about what your elders need to learn fast and well regarding how to live in our planetary home without recklessly dissipating its finite resources, as leviathan-like corporations are doing now; how to adapt outrageous per capita overconsumption patterns and individual hoarding lifestyles in preparation for an end to economic growth (not development); how to sensibly stabilize and then humanely reduce the size of the human population to a level that assures sustainability of the human species and life as we know it; and how to deal effectively with the relentless pollution and environmental degradation that is occurring on our watch.

        The Rio 20 Conference will occur in June 2012. Where are the scientists who are ready, willing and able to discuss openly, objectively and honorably the “mother” of all emerging and converging, human-induced global challenges looming before the human family on our watch: human overpopulation? Have first class scientists capitulated to the politically correct agenda of the rich and powerful as well as agreed to speak only of that which the one percent determined is politically convenient, economically expedient, socially suitable, religiously tolerable and culturally prescribed? Children, perhaps I am mistaken about all of this. For your sake, I certainly hope so.

        • Humankind is presented with an incredible and unprecedented situation. We are spectacularly successful at doing something potentially ruinous of all we claim to be protecting and preserving by ever increasing natural resources exploitation and continually increasing food production. Stupidly we hold fast to a wicked delusion that, if we don’t do these things, a catastrophe will follow. This upside down, delusional thinking is leading us to precipitate a disaster of some unimaginable sort because the continuous exploitation of limited resources, including continually increasing food production to feed a growing population, is precisely what is actually causing humanity to careen toward a colossal global ecological wreckage.

      36. when will these stupid people who have lost everything finally start to take the people that were responsible for their destruction with them. If you are going to kill yourself you have figured out that you have nothing to lose, so that being the case when you decide to kill your self DO NOT DO IT ALONE?

      37. Once you realize who you are and what the state is you have a renewed confidence for survival. Normalcy bias is a programmed response that the state has relied on to keep the sheople well herded. It also creates situation that when lighting strikes, the huddled sheople, under the care of the shepherd, all die as lighting passes from one sheople to another.

        We had a major ice storm last night. The roads where glare ice. I took the chance to teach my son (he’s 14) a few things about vehicles, driving and people. We took a ride.

        We were literally entertained by the plight of people. Now, understand, their problems were minor. They just couldn’t move. In each situation I explained to my son what these people did wrong. In most cases what was done wrong was a symptom of normalcy bias. It was sad and funny at the same time. Seeing people totally unprepared for what hit them and how they reacted.

        The roads were so slick that any sort of moderate incline would stop you. People were bumping into each other and sliding off into the ditch. We started to stop to help but there were just too many to help. I just drove around them.

        As my son watched the show, he realized that people are basically stuck in the paradigm that the road is not slick. It makes no difference to me. Ice, snow, wet, dry, its just a road. I intend to stay on it and get to my destination without help or injury. …and I do. I simply adjust. Long ago I took normalcy bias by the throat, shoved it to the ground, put my 44mag to its head and pulled the trigger. To me, life is a constant string of “Assess, Adjust” pairs. It keeps me alive.

        I have taught this to my children and to some of my extended family.

        Normalcy bias is the true enemy and a tool of TPTB and its going to kill a lot of people in the near future.

        • more insanity…

        • We had ice here too and I had to give a talk last night so went and met my commitment before beating the ice home. I saw in the paper this morning that someone died later on the same Interstate I was on after losing control on the ice.

          My retreat is built in an area inaccessible without tire chains in the snow. I got it cheaper because people see this as a negative, but I see it as one more deterrent between me and those who might be a threat. Someone with normalcy bias looking for utility lines or a mailbox or an improved road will hopefully keep looking.

      38. …and somehow voting for another candidate will fix all of this? nope.

        it wasn’t so long ago that people were making a lot of noise about obama and how he would fix everything. THIS TIME it’ll be different.

        BS; no it won’t. ron paul isn’t going to fix anything. it’s going to be same as last election with similar results; it happens every election cycle. all of you “voters” who are easily duped will be easily duped into voting yet again because THIS TIME it’s different (yawn, hear that every election cycle). nothing on the outside really changes until you change what’s on the inside… YOUR INSIDE. relying on someone else to ‘fix’ things isn’t going to work. it hasn’t yet; why would it now? just because you said so? because THIS TIME it’s different? doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result is the very definition of insanity.

        every four years it’s the same bunch of BS rehashed and shuffled around. putting a smiley face sticker on a turd doesn’t change the turd at all and is a complete waste of a sticker.

        disengaging requires giving up voting. it’s all rigged so why bother?

        i’ll tell you why anyone bothers: mental illness. doing the same thing over and over is what most of you have been trained to do.

        “But but but Ron Paul is our last chance to blah blah blah…”

        WRONG. YOU are your own last chance, not ron paul. the new paradigm requires everyone– yes, EVERYONE– to DROP ALL ASPECTS of the old paradigm, which includes voting.

        many of you sit here day in and day out talking about how the vote is rigged, how the game is slanted in favor of others, how the politicians are crooks, etc., and yet you still go vote, even though you know it does no good, even though you know it’s just going to usher old crooks out and new ones in, even though you know the voting machines are rigged, even though you know TPTB will do whatever it takes to keep their ‘power’. despite all this you still vote. <<<definition of insanity.

        you know why the entrenched powers are still in power? BECAUSE YOU CONTINUOUSLY GIVE THEM POWER. DUH! STOP GIVING THEM POWER. DON'T VOTE.

        • Ah, yes, insanity. Insanity would be voting for any of the other candidates. Ron Paul is not just different, *HE* is something different in every way. Insanity would be to not study the voting records and personal records of the other candidates and then just pronounce voting to be insanity.

          Can Ron Paul cure all the problems? No.

          Will Ron Paul make an attempt? Maybe.

          What he can do is soften the blow by getting government off our backs and strangling the police state. I believe Ron Paul understands the individual sovereignty of the American people. He can’t say it outright since people have already pronounced him “bat shit crazy”, but he leaves behind bread crumbs that lead you there.

          Get a clue! One of those guys is going to get elected. One of them. Would you rather it be Romney? …a richer slicker, fairer skinned Barack Obama? Or how about Santorum? A baby faced neocon war monger (ah, but I repeat myself…). How about Gingrich? Womanizer, crooket politician?

          No. I pick Paul. One *WILL*BE*ELECTED*!!! If you shut up and just let it roll, the sheople will elect the slickest and probably the most crooked. Oh, wait! They already did that multiple times!

          The reset will be pushed in a few years||months||weeks||days anyway. Why not try it “one more time”.

          But, your premise that nothing on the outside that changes will make a difference is correct. Something snapped in me about a year ago as I searched for the answers of how The Republic could behave as it does. While I am finally free of the bonds and have also freed my son that doesn’t mean I torched my strawman. I can still use my strawman to press a button that may help my existence as a natural person on this earth.

          The only bad thing is this: If Ron Paul really is different and does the right things, he could actually prolong the system, stretch it out so it doesn’t crash all at once. I’m not sure if I like that idea or not. Frankly, I prefer and sudden paradigm change. It keeps TPTB from doing their own “Assess, Adjust” dance. But, I would hope that in that slower, softer collapse, many of the sheople would be able to be converted into actual productive, surviving people instead of the “state-bots” that are currently running around on our streets.

          I call it: STRAWMEN TO THE RESCUE!

          …and in the end, it may be just as silly and insane as you opine.

          • He could be used, but I think in another way. Austerity will be labeled $1T budget cuts, With all the troops returning to our shores, and the navy out to sea, that could be the NDAA muscle! If RP is elected, I feel the tyrant(that history tells us is comming) will be either be elected right after, or will be his vp after the assasins bullet. I hope I am wrong! RON PAUL 2021!

        • I will vote because I believe the vote can only be manipulated +/- 15% at the most. The system is corrupt to the core, but the only alternative is civil war, and I believe we are not yet(but soon will be) to that point, so I vote. YES, I am insane! I come to this blog almost everyday and post what I feel about the topic, or I may go on a rant. My way of getting on top of a hill and screaming at the top of my voice at the sheeple below.

      39. To prep takes money. I go to work every day, but the take home pay barely pays ever-increasing bills with nothing left over to prep. Very upsetting when you know what you should be doing, but can’t get out of the starting gate.

        • I wish I had an easy answer. In the last three years I have had three temporary jobs, but by changing my behavior now to closer what it might be later I have been able to free up money. For example, I sold my mobile home and doubled up with a friend and spent that money on some wooded acres. They provide housing for me know and I provide a retreat for them later. I maxed out my credit card to buy building materials and reallocated what I used to spend on lot rental to make the payments. Instead of preparing meat intensive dinners, we eat stuff like tuna in scalloped potatoes so we can buy additional food without paying more. I just started a six-month assignment and although I own an ’89 diesel 4×4, I ride the bus wearing my backpack full of foods bought in bulk from Sam’s for lunch. These are just some things I do and you may not be able to use any of them. Maybe you can get a second job. I would like to get on at the gun department at the nearby sporting goods store if I could. Never, never, never give up.

          • PP, yeah probably would be good to get a second job, I suppose, but the one job I have is killing me as it is. After work am totally exhausted then have to tend to my elderly parents and my own family. Oh well, I realize I am pretty much defeated (money wise) and not going to get ahead so the future doesn’t look too promising. Blessings.

          • PP good work there.

            I’ve made as little as $2k-$3k all YEAR for the last few years, last year, 2011, I worked my butt off and actually made almost the individual poverty rate for 2009, the Internet doesn’t have any figures later than that.

            I kept a record of every penny, every penny out, and I was surprised to see some of the dumb stuff I spent too much money on, but what was interesting to see was that I did so well because I had about 6 streams of income, from recycling metals to casual labor, finding “vintage” stuff at garage sales then pedaling my bicycle over to “antique row” and selling it.

            I’ve told more than one guy, that if they just go around downtown, even though the stores tend to be tended by peons while the absentee business owner is off counting his shekels, even the peons have jobs they don’t want to do, like clean the bathroom or police up the cig butts in the parking lot. So, go around and offer to do scut work, for a few bucks here and there, by the end of the day you could possibly have $50, which is big money these days.

            Or go around asking for odd jobs, yard work, etc around the houses.

            Or maybe people want their cars washed etc.

            There’s always some kind of work out there, and remember, an American will always work cheaper than an illegal immigrant.

            • A good angle is to ask folks if you can backyard farm for them. Half and half. Their land and water… you garden and get have the take. Gardens are so prolific…you can easily feed yourself off just a few good folks.

              If you are poor…the best bet is to get out of the city and go country…find an honest farmer who will let you plant his land. Another angle… guerrilla gardening.
              You head out to the wood..and you get some wire mesh to keep the deer from eating your stuff. Maybe you tack together a small greenhouse or ground hoop houses.

              I’m building cold frame with a few to be heated in my back yard. Also… I’m looking into growing fish in garbage cans. Many ways to get by and eat well. Also, the exercise of gardening is great. Maybe raise some rabbits and a few chickens. But you need to get out of the cities and burbs.

        In 1997 I came down with depression.
        I worked as a clerk in an office with mean people.
        I was shaky, depressed, music no longer affected me and I wanted to die.

        My wife, an RN, convinced me to see medical help.
        My dr. who I used to clean windows for on the side knew me. He knew there was nothing socially wrong with my life. He new I just needed the right medicine to let me brain work as it should. He put me on welbutrin. We adjusted the dose.
        THE OUTCOME…
        Ten years later…after returning to school for an information technology degree with honors, I now am a top dog in my company. I process and set up many new system. People come to me for help. My income has doubled and I now have a nice home. I am happy again.
        I am a great father and not a “depressed zombie”.

        Folks, it is important to seek help when you have depression.

        ***Yes, I keep enough of the medicine on hand if society breaks down. Further, I have doctor friends who have cases of the stuff and I have the silver for barter.***

        The best prep you can make is good health.

        Funny, many of my colleagues at work who used to laugh at all my computer books are now unemployed and I’m running things now.

        Here’s a tip…
        I stock and prep. many computer books.
        I rarely lunch with folks…instead I focus on my work
        and knowledge base. Folks come to me and seek out the expert.

        This will always keep me working.

        Further, I’m working on a post collapse computing guild that folks can join to better their lives. I’m creating ventures where folks can succeed so we can suck some money back out of china.

        The way I see it…we are just going though a transition.

        It’s good to prep for a collapse…when done…then you focus on the future. Folks will still need services, food, fuel and so on.

        The dollar as we all know is being trashed.
        They are just switching systems and need to change the scale of money. Default by the printing press.

        I advise folks to stop buying stocks and for your retirement stock up on a nice box of silver.
        Then you can one day, trade it to a banker for a small farm he reppoed. Spend your pre-retirement years learning how to garden and other skills.

        When the country goes down…you’ll be set.

        I do think the food supply will be affected greatly.

        This years prep is to build a heated “cold” frame for winter gardening for produce year round. I will fill my property with these.

        I just got a set of sliding glass doors and ten double pane windows off of craigslist. FREE.

        Focus on your health.
        Focus on your career path and be the best.
        Prep up enough to get by, self contained.
        Focus on gardening, hunting, fishing and how to clean game.
        Only invest in silver from here on out. Note..if the dollar tanks… even if you have your property paid for….they will still hit you with massive taxes…you’ll need the silver to cash in to pay the taxes.
        Lastly…talk to folks. Especially talk to republicans, they need to not vote for the “other guys” an vote Ron Paul and keep voting the Pauls.

        Note to our government…
        Don’t come down on folks for prepping up.
        FEMA wants us to prep up…yet I’m seeing articles
        about folks “hoarding food” and any crime this might be.
        If folks prep up..then this will force the systems to ramp up to meet demand…so when the panic buying goes down…there will be the stores in place to restocks and also the preppers will be able to help their neighbors.

        Govt. if you come to my door and “ask”, I’ll gladly give some help to help feed folks. If you take..out comes the shot gun. Despite any laws you might pass, I don’t recall signing any documents. I view myself as a free decent man who will always help out. But if you treat me as a felon…you will get a felon’s response.
        I prep up to make sure my family and neighbors won’t starve. If the military needs some help just ask, as long as they are following the constitution. I still think our military is planning a take over from congress. That’s what I want for Christmas.

        If you do get accused of “food hoarding”…just state that you are storing food for your extended family. When you calculated it out….you’d most likely be
        below whatever weekly or monthly food stores limit.
        It’s best to spread out your stores in many locations.

        Final thought…
        Funny…how the bankster controlled media call investing in metals.. “Hoarding”.

        My rule….what they frown on…is what I will do.
        Avoid all manipulation by people and think for yourselves.

        The best gift you can give the next generation is a family farm where they will not be debt slaves.
        Be sure to continually plant fast growing timber…this will let the generations ahead harvest it for firewood and lumber to sell to pay the property taxes.

        My plan…I live in a double… the double I will rent
        will go towards paying the property tax on the family farm. It will never be lost to back taxes. All funds will go through a law firm that will be audited by a CPA annually.

        Be sure to set it all up on a trust fund so a scumbag family member cannot ever sell anything.

        Stop thinking that we’re going to “Mad Max” days.
        While that might be true in ghetto area…the folks in my town are like family and we all are planning on taking care of eachother. We’ve already had chats on our contingency plans. The spirit of true Americans.

        From deep in my heart you are a true Patriot!
        Thanks so much for the site.

        I encourage all folks to be positive.

        We need to all plan together and work with the next generation to get them ready for their challenges ahead.

        My latest retirement buys…
        Remington 12g for the future grand kids and ammo.
        Don’t forget the bird shot…for SHTF squirrel sandwiches.
        Used compound bow and many deer arrows. I had it restrung.
        Roto tillers.
        I’m reading on fish farming and planning an aquaponics system that will be computer controlled.

        Peace everyone.
        The SHTF will be a slow slide into hell for some and a boy scout adventure for many. Embrace the change and be ready to buy up that nice family farm for the generations ahead. Make sure to leave a nice tractor with attachements, a large library of how to books and a box of silver for the property taxes. I personally plan on leaving a hidden vault in a buried new septic tank with all that would sustain life for a while if China ever attacked.

        Note to China… Many Americans are NRA members. If you invade…many of us have our own private armories.
        You might land on our soil…but we’ll snipper your ass and you won’t ever be going back home. You can bank on it. We’re planning on this and ensuring our children and great grand children have the resources to fight you all off. Don’t think all Americans are fat and lazy. Remember, all that came from us.
        The US has been doing a brain drain for years.

        To the NWO…
        Don’t fuck with us. I won’t say anymore as it might get me in trouble.

        To the congress who voted for the NDAA…you are traitors. We hate you all. I am NOT a terrorist because I live like our founding fathers. YOU are the terrorists.

        The second amendment was created to let us take back our govt when we need to. I don’t thing it will come to that in my lifetime, but it will when I’m near death and my future grand kids are around.

        The most important thing to realize is that our systems are engineered to export our wealth. Gas, products, services. All designed to suck wealth out of the United States. Buy American and start creating your own ventures to make our country strong.

        Note to Congress and the UN.
        You will fine many folks like me. We work, pay taxes and so on. However, if you mess with us you mess with the United States. We will regain our sovereignty by the vote. If you get draconian on us…you will then understand what it means to have an angry American on your ass.

        I live in peace. I encourage all to live that way.
        However, make sure you have the resources to fight off anyone who threatens your way of life. It’s what American do!!!

      41. When I was a boy, my maternal grandmother mentioned to me on one or two occasions about her experiences during the Great Depression and WWII. She made a point to teach me about frugality (probably because she witnessed me doing something wasteful at the time). I wish she were still alive today, so that I could talk with her more about those times.

      42. The FBI says there are 1.4 million gang members in the US right now. More and more come here every day. Young people who are already here get recruited every day. If you are not involved with stopping this, you need to rethink your future and current preps. You can’t protect yourself from them. This is not just an urban crisis. They are every where.

      43. type 2 diabetics should be fine when the shtf. Most are insulin dependent because they are fat and lazy. When they have to fight for their life and live off the land they will naturally lose weight and find themselves not needing so many meds.
        This goes for many other diseases that are brought on by sedentary, comfortable lifestyles.

        Type 1’s aren’t so fortunate and would only last a couple of weeks without insulin unless they still produce small amounts or know of some BS lowering herbals

        Without psych meds suicide will rapidly increase but IMO not agression/hate crimes

        I don’t see it happening as a rapid collapse but more as a slow destructuralization of society. It will get bad but i think it has to in order to thin the herd a bit. Let the process of natural selection begin

      44. good news stocked up on food,water,personal protection.Bad news I live 40 miles from downtown Los Angeles.I guess I’ll have 50 yard line seats for the big show.

        • I live in Rancho Cucamonga- about 40 miles east fo LA. Glad to here that there are a few other preppers in SC. We’ll be few and far between.

          • I’m in glendora here about the military exercise that’s going on in los angeles?

      45. Ammo cans and crisp new rolls of nickels !

      46. When the shtf it will be a free fire zone in the city’s controlled by the give me’s fighting for every scrap of food and what little water they have. Most location are supplied by pumps and with no power they will quickly due of dehydration. I pity those fools dependent on the system designed to fail. They will suffer for their own short sighted and sheeple attitude of being absorbed with the bread and TV shows. They will soon be living their own “survivor” without the medical help and commercial breaks. God help us all when it happens.

      47. The funny thing is, this active willful denial has been going on for a long time, a very long time. Back in 1992 I was in my twenties and worked for a man that was fully awake back then. I recall many days sitting in his office after work and being lectured on how the world really operated. During this time I was quite asleep and thought he was a little crazy because there is no way this could be true. How wrong I was. This was my period of denial that lasted for about another 6 years. However, looking back on this time, I am thankful for him planting those seeds of truth.

        Later, in 1998, still in a fair amount of denial and far removed from the conversations I had with this man, a friend pointed me to some very interesting information about the Federal Reserve. The information was so clearly valid and authentic that I had my epiphany moment. Yet, I still was somewhat unaware of the extent of how deep this crime syndicate ran.

        Finally, shortly after 9/11, I fully realized where all this was going. I would spend the next decade researching and going through the five steps of awakening. Even though I had plenty of knowledge already, had accepted the truth for what it is, I still to this day make it a point to learn something new about all of this each day. It is only my opinion, but I believe we should all be doing this, learning and learning everyday.

        So, my point for this comment is that I had a rock solid 20 years to wake up and fully see this world for what it is. I know who all the important players are. I know the history and have taken the time to mentally gauge my mind for the nightmares that may unfold someday in the near future.

        All these people, or sheeple as most of us endearingly call them, will be forced to wake up to the nightmare as it unfolds in real time. This may be a few months, a few weeks or in some cases, a few days. Hell, we may get years more with a slow motion controlled economic demolition, it’s just hard to call. Yet, these same people won’t know who is really responsible, why it is happening or how it is happening, it will just be happening. This is a very dangerous thing. Just look at some, not all, of the Occupy people. A good percentage are focused completely on the wrong issues.

        Even if things continue as a slow paced downward spiral, most people are completely unaware of the who, how and why. The sad fact of reality is, most simply do not want to know. Most would much rather have some “officials” just fix it. So, here are the real dangers of this.

        A) We get some very ugly solutions offered up after the sheeple outcry for a quick fix. That could result in global governance in the form of pure totalitarianism.

        B) These people blame the wrong issues and we end up with the equivalent of a Bolshevik revolution, ending with pretty much the same result as above, but a whole lot bloodier.

        C) Things spin so far out of control that we end up with a world that looks like something out of “The Road”, “Mad Max” or “The Book of Eli”.

        Or finally,

        D) A total zombie apocalypse scenario as billions of people completely lose their minds and go berserk. This is the worst of the four and I think something like this could end in lab viruses being release, nuclear war or a combination of many terrible things. Think of the worse scenario you can, then multiply it by 7 billion. This could be a species ending sceanrio.

        All of those four scenarios above are considered worst case scenarios by myself. However, they are all very possible if the majority remain asleep. When the hard and fast economic meltdown does come, and it will, pray you have done enough to free the minds of those around you. If not, things are probably going to be ugly for several decades, and I’m talking “The Postman” style rule of law. Not a world I want to live in.

        This is why I spend a great deal of time slowly trying to wake people up. Dropping clues, casually discussing hard topics and exposing the truth with a subtle hand. Pointing out the funny lines in the sky. Explaining the Federal Reserve system. Gently warning about the dangers of GMO, Fluoride, BPA and Aspartame. It takes time, but eventually people begin to see the bigger picture.

        The good news is that more and more people are beginning to see the truth. I run into more people everyday that have recently awoken. There is still a good chance that we don’t end up in any of the four nightmare scenarios. We’re heading for some seriously hard times, hell, many people are already in hard times. Yet, we will have a critical juncture in the near future. The direction we go when we arrive will be the result of what we do now to wake up as many people as we possibly can.

        A major paradigm shift is coming, will you be ready? Will the people around you be ready? We’ll see.

        • Wow, one of the best posts to date I have seen. HUGE thumbs up!

      48. the other vets are right. until you’ve had to pull the trigger you just won’t know. you can train and train and train.develop almost a muscle memory for it, but you will not know until that moment. having a good mental prep will help with the after affects. it changes you.

      49. N E W T 2012

        • oldcrow
          you are a fucking old bastard and you are not welcome here with this shit…. you are the enemy and must be defeated and eliminated.

          • Good or bad it is not for any of us to decide ho is welcome.

            I happen to feel old row is making a bad choice but it is his choice to make eeder, that is democracy for you.

            Many people hear probably don’t like the Brits, the French or whatever but nobody tells them to get lost.

            It seems to me eederthat you bad mouth anyone whose opinion differs from your own.

            Take care eeder, narrow minded ness could prevent you from learning something…maybe it is the old that offends you. Ore than his/her political choice.

            Take care

          • Newt for pres with Ron Paul VP.
            Newt is no dummy…he knows he’ll get the votes with Ron Paul. Ron Paul is not an arrogant man…he just wants to help the country…so VP for him is not a big ego thing.




            At my house…I hand them to my kid to rip up..”I am not a slave she chants.”

        • Are you nuts? Newt Gingrich is an evil greedy pig who was kicked out of Congress for lying! He has the morals of an alley cat with no respect for anyone else. He is a sell-out to special interest groups like Fannie Mae and AIPAC…..should I go on?

          Geez, Old Crow, please do some research on your candidate!

          • daisy,
            at this point newt gingrich is our biggest threat and he must be eliminated as a possibility to become next president…. it is the clearest and most present danger.

      50. durango kidd says:
        January 21, 2012 at 8:21 pm

        eeder: Its not denial, or normalcy bias. Its a fundamental understanding of the mechanics of the Federal Reserve which I have, and the rest of you do not.

        That is why I have stated “No hyperinflation” for the past 18 months here, while the rest of you have been running around saying the sky is falling and hyperinflation is just around the corner.

        NIA for example, last year at this time, said there would be hyperinflation by last summer. Well that was more than six months ago and there is no hyperinflation.

        One of US was wrong. Guess who.
        I can respect the opinion, but I certainly don’t agree with it. Can you honestly say inflation HAS’NT hit?? Ground beef has risen 30% in the last 6 months, food packaging has shrunk WITH less product in that in general. Gas prices have risen 5-10% in the last year, even though the price per barrel has pretty much remained under or around 100 dollars per barrel. I back my post up with FACTS, but I won’t bother on this one, seems some are determined to ignore the obvious, regardless of facts lol.

        I had to give you a thumbs down on the above condescending post. To throw a blanket statement on everyone that “you’re the man” on the fed res, well, that sounds rather belittling, Maybe some of our levels of intelligence might just stun you. Secondly, other factors also determine gold prices, including manipulations, as you well know or should. Thirdly, don’t include me, in the you or us blanket generalities. I spend 10-15 hours DAILY researching and reading, and most certainly I am privy to insider information when it comes along.

        Don’t construe this as an attack. Just my opinion, for what that’s worth lol

        • watcher: No “attack” construed. Yes inflation is here and it will continue. It will be double digit inflation, which is what I have continually posted these past 18 months. I didn’t make that plain in the post you cite.

          Double digit inflation is ugly year after year, but it is not hyperinflation. Many strategies can be implemented to adapt and profit from inflation which increases asset prices.

          Hyperinflation destroys wealth.

          The FED will not allow hyperinflation to destroy the wealth of the GB’s and Uber Rich. It always acts in its own best interest, not OURS, which is why their best interest is now also OURS.

          They profit from US.

          • You’re right my friend lol, profit is the name of the game. Sorry if I came off a little harsh. It’s my understanding, the feds are planning to deflate their way out of the Chinese loans, how this will affect the average Joe remains to be seen to me. Going to be a heck of a roller coaster ride this year, sooner or later robbing Peter to pay Paul will end, then it gets nasty.

            • watcher
              what you are saying is more ridiculous than anything durango kid says.
              it is imposssible to deflate your way out of debt… there are only 3 possibilities… one of which durango kid has explained time and again, and though i dont agree with him… it is the one possibility.. you inflate your way out of debt…slowly by the kind of infaltion he suggests or quickly by hyper inflation. the other two possibilities are to default or to pay the debt back, which involves mass austerity and is highly unlikely at this point.if the feds are in fact “planning” to deflate their way out of debt as you suggest, and you actually have insider information that legitimately confirms this…. well it confirms im right.. the fed is out of control, not rock solid and on deaths doorstep…. which would be a chaotic default… and i hate to break it to you buddy … were already on the roller coaster and you aintt getting off…. it is nasty… if you want nastier… well im afarid you will get it…. lets all stop clouding the facts here…

            • watcher…one more thing pal.. be very leary of insider information and i dont care who it is that is feeding you that info. i dont care if it is jaime dimon, ben bernanke or evelyn de Rothschild….. the only insider information you need , if youre a good trader, you can figure out on your own…. if you cant, well than i would suggest youre in the wrong line of business…. prep hard or pray hard.

          • durango kid…. your theory is only valid as long as the federal reserve is rock solid…. ITS NOT!

      51. “>>> P R E P A R E Y O U R S E L V E S N O W ! ! ! <<<

        I pray I'm not fear mongering because that is NOT my intention. I only want people to wake up and prepare, just in case the stuff hits the fan.

        They will most likely start rounding people up very very soon, but personally, I think they will cause people to demand to get to go before real physical force is used.

        Any new false flag attack(s) or "natural" disaster(s) may/will cause:

        a) power outages and fuel shortages (Freeze you to death.)

        b) severe food and water shortages (Starve you to death.)

        c) severe confusion and much anger (Cause you to go insane and do crimes, including murder.)

        I think they see an advantage to this winter really just beginning and will use it!

        Cold and hungry people will be rounded up due to their own ignorance, greed, etc. They will think they are being rescued. There has been too many bus purchases etc. for the last ten years by cities, schools, and more. All without a real need for them. I have seen this over and over.

        There will be so much confusion as they gather people up that people won't even think or even have time to seek information as to how many people have already gone before them. And if some do seek info. then they will be lied to about everything.

        They WILL have to kill people as they bring more and more in. There is NOT enough of anything to keep and treat the huge number of people that will go voluntarily.

        During this they will also forcefully collect those they deem a threat to their power, regardless of anything.

        Nothing will be held back by them. They already know they must go forward FULL THROTTLES!

        I pray to God in the name of Jesus Christ that we would truly repent and seek Him and His will in and for our lives now and eternally.

        God bless you all, and good day."

      52. Forget the citizenry and their pscyhotropics – consider the cops and the higher pecentage of them who use those drugs to deal with their stress and anger issues (often from steroids). During Katrina we now know cops were murdering people left and right – and that was with an ample supply of Prozac on hand. Is there going to be a raging bloodthirsty subculture of cops racking up kills?

        • @schlomo… there already is such a subculture of cops and military brass under nwo.zionist.cia control… who serves nwo.zionists as their boot licking zionist.goyim.soldier.slave.servants… hmmmmmm? wake up and smell the fascism… who? da’ cops and da’ usmc and other armed forces of the u s s a… amerika is now one big fascist prison… all we’re waiting on is a big national fed false flag to bring in martial law and it’s game over… all you american suckers are playin’ checkers while the feds are playin’ chess… get it! suckers…

        • @schlomo… there already is such a subculture of cops and military brass under nwo.zionist.cia control… who serves nwo.zionists as their boot licking zionist.goyim.soldier.slave.servants… hmmmmmm? wake up and smell the fascism… who? da’ cops and da’ usmc and other armed forces of the u s s a… amerika is now one big fascist prison… all we’re waiting on is a big national fed false flag to bring in martial law and it’s game over… all you american suckers are playin’ checkers while the feds are playin’ chess… get it! suckers…

      53. IMO

        There needs to be a balance of sorts.

        I don’t think someone should sell everything and buy only Silver (or Gold), or go and spend all they have on freeze dried food.

        I think people need to watch, listen and use common sense to prepare for what seems to be coming our way. I agree with the sentiment that the fiat system will eventually fail, as there doesn’t seem to be any realistic/logical way out at this point and level of debt. But will this be a sudden collapse or a drawn out process over many years with inflation occurring (as it is now) leading into hyper-inflation? Not sure, I expect it depends on how certain world events play out…

        That said, I think one should “try” to prepare as much as possible for a SHTF situation.

        To me this means thinking about certain things:

        How will I have water when the tap stops flowing?
        How will I be able to heat my home in the winter months?
        How will I be able to eat when the store shelves are empty?
        How will be able to protect myself, my home, my family?
        How will I pay/trade for items that might be available?
        Will there be any in my community that are like minded and should I join a group at a certain time to leverage the strength and abilities and safety that comes in numbers of those drawn together with common needs and ideas?

        These are the things (and many more) that I think about. How will I adapt to a world filled with these new demands and needs.

        Those that suggest buying PM’s like Gold or Silver seem to be in two camps.

        Those that buy to hedge against inflation, which means to me that they envision that at some point they will exchange their Silver for Dollars and reap the dollar profits of their investment.

        And those that buy PM’s as an insurance plan. Meaning that they believe that at some point they will actually USE the Silver/Gold itself to buy/trade goods/services.

        So depending on how the economy declines, a person will need to be prepared for acquiring goods in both circumstances. I think one should have both cash AND PM’s on hand to better adjust to whatever situation plays out first and strongest.

        “You can’t eat Silver (or gold, or cash)”

        That’s a comment that stays in the back of my mind, always. I prefer to use what disposable income(cash) to
        create buffer of savings for current emergencies, so as to not need to go in debt (credit card) for simple needs that come up like car repairs or a broken house hold item like a water heater.

        Then I try to “prep” and stock up on items that will help me manage the “How” list I have above.

        Then I try to purchase a degree of PM’s, namely 90% Silver Liberty Dimes, as a mix of both hedge & insurance. Though I’m more of the mind to stock up on items that will be needed/used in a SHTF occurrence like ammo, toilet paper, basic medical supplies, canned goods, alcohol, duct tape…

        I personally think if/when the SHTF it’s going to be some time before the crisis shakes out to the degree that people will be interested in a Silver dime as opposed to a can of Beef Stew. But that’s just me…I think usable necessities and goods trump (to a somewhat large degree) the hording of PM’s.

        Now if you happen to be lucky enough to feel that you have all the basic needs covered for a long enough time period, then sure by all means invest/prep PM’s as much as you see fit. But I don’t believe it should be the other way around as a priority.

        I’d also like to add that in this current state of increasing uncertainty and flux…that there are many out there that will (and are) actively seek to profit from the fear, panic and paranoia that will likely continue to increase these next years.

        I see zero need to pay anyone for common sense ideas and information I can gather for free.

        I’d much rather see that money going to any and all of the areas I’ve already mentioned.

        There are plenty of news sites like that one can keep abreast of current economic trends and actions around the world events, and FYI/SHTF sites like this one. I see no need to line the pocketbooks of fear mongers and economic fear traders.

        But that’s just me.

        Purchasing some survival skill or preparation books, sure as I’ll be the first to admit I certainly don’t know everything there is to know about prepping or off the grid survival. But I just wanted to convey a word of caution about the payed/subscription newsletter of those selling market analysis or economic ideas/suggestions and such…there simply no need imo, given the wealth of free info at your fingertips and using good old fashioned common sense (which in truth isn’t that common lol) but you know what I mean.

        Anyway, just some thoughts on the subject on shifts and preparedness. I’d certainly suggest having a type of priority pyramid of sorts that shows the breakdown from daily Needs to just in case Extras.

        I’d suggest getting your daily living, life sustaining needs prepped before thinking about stocking up or spending economic resources on the rest.

        Warm Regards & Best of Luck to All,


      54. Move below the current freeze line-(altho this may suddenly change in the event of a TNW), preferably to a site with an abundance of springs, aquafers, and lakes, somewhere full of foliage. Now, learn whats foragable, in other words find the plant life that is edible in that area because the game and fish will be hunted out rather quickly-I’m guessing within 100 days or less-that includes vermin…and remember all fowl indigiounous to the continental US are edible. Have a good canteen, knife, and be prepared to move on foot to wherever the food is. Good luck, and God help us all.

        • I’m always looking for food sources in my neighborhood, and found fiddleheads, a large mulberry tree, and there’s always dandelions, violets, pansies and roses. I’m always looking for fungi growing on dead wood,cattails and wild asparagus. If we can bug in, I have a great survival/ camping book which identifies every fish and bird and shows how to dress all game. I live next to a preserve, but that might become off-limits. I’ve already had the preserve police ask me what I was doing in the woods..? Hello, dog, leash, ummmm boating?
          People think I’m just walking my dog, but surviving is always on my mind.

      55. if all prepper-minded folks would take what they spend on entertainment, cable, eating out, junk food, booze, cigarettes, revolving credit card debt, their 401K etc. and other income-stealers and put it into basic preps:

        barterable goods
        retreat supplies
        solar panelas and propane etc.

        The 3-5% of us that KNOW things are going to get ugly would be beyond ready….

        but it’s hard to live in two worlds on a limited income.

      56. Three more quarts of pickled eggs this weekend. And 3 days to work on the ethanol units for peeps.

        Geology man, boiler is almost done, toweer is finished, yours is getting there, will not be long.

        Cardiac Break, boiler is done, tower and reflux on top, all we need is to hook up utility, defintely in 7 days +/-.

        Bonds person, boiler wall is together, welded inside and out, bottom will be on this weekend, then hard geometry and trig for dome top, will use scrap, very little left over…lol.

        Mr. Arkansas Your boiler bottom is on, needs top and so on…

        Anyone else want to distill your own alcohol to antiseptic grade or to fuel grade?

        Google lnlprotekt


      57. The one issue EVERYONE here is missing on, is the fact that a post apocalypse world will be full of radiation after the nukes fly. This will be compounded with radioactive nuclear fallout behind it for about 20+ years before levels return to safe levels for humans.

        A nuclear enviroment is what people had better be ready & expecting to face. EVERYTHING will be radio-active. Radiation will be EVERYWHERE. One thing people should be thinking about is radiation suites and if you have little ones like babies, people better think of how they are going to change the babies diapers without allowing the baby to become exposed to radiation.

        The same could be said for bio/chemical weapon exposure as well.

        People should be learning how to make their own water wells. how to make unfertal/dead soil, organic and able to plant in as well.

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