Life or Liberty, Profit or Prepping: Economic Decision Making for Preppers

by | Feb 12, 2013 | Emergency Preparedness | 197 comments

Do you LOVE America?


    This article has been generously contributed by Mark Solomon of the Financial Survival Center.


    For the small part of the general populace that is aware of potential challenges ahead, economic decisions are much more complicated. We are known as Preppers for our actions that allow us to be ready to handle most foreseeable future scenarios without needing significant assistance.

    Unlike those that either do not see any potential challenges to the current level of society functioning (utilities working, stores supplied, no wide-spread civil strife, etc.), or may see some questionable signs in the future and do not choose to prepare for them, preppers take action. We build the ark so to speak, before the rain begins. Then we stock it for the journey.

    This brings up the great dilemma in being a prepper: How do we divide or allocate our limited money and resources the wisest way possible. We want to be both prepared for eventualities and still have opportunities for profit. We want to be prosperous no matter what happens, either a free stable trend, or to hell in a hand basket. We will examine some of these decisions and what tools we need to land on the right side of profitable vs prepared.

    A bit of background about me: An engineer by training where I ran multiple projects over $25 M in budgets, also a former Financial Adviser, Futures Commissions Merchant (commodities trader), money manager, and a life long prepper. Despite plenty of formal training in the “socially acceptable Financial Planning methods” I will not use them for the most part in this paper. We are stepping beyond the fantasy world of finance, into the real world of hard goods, hard currency, and hard numbers.

    Assumptions for getting started:

    We have a source of income. We are not massively in debt. We are willing to invest and or speculate in the stock market, commodities (like gold, silver, platinum, corn, soy, cattle), real estate including rental, residential, commercial, and farm land.

    If we do not have a source of income, then job one..through 10, is to get one fast. Preferably a job that offers income that can rise with inflation.

    If we are seriously in debt, than getting out of debt probably needs to absorb 50% of our spendable income, with the other 50% going to prepping, not investing. After the prepping phase is at a point where 3 months of food, water and basic supplies are handled, then a cushion fund is the next step.

    Ideally, 3 months of a cushion fund is a foundation. Once we have that in place, the decision making strategies discussed here can be applied for deciding what to do with funds above and beyond necessary expenditures.

    Willingness to speculate or the more politically acceptable term “invest” is one of the keys to surviving and profiting through a currency collapse. There is almost no other means of both surviving and profiting through a period of currency debasement, economic collapse and financial lock-up then riding through the storm using the financial markets – until the collapse is at hand. This point of view is extremely controversial.

    Here is why speculating in the collapsing market is a choice I personally make even though we all know it is fully manipulated.

    The logic for speculating:

    • With a fiat currency – everything in an economy is essentially manipulated from above with central banks creating the currency   out of essentially a fantasy that the currency symbol has worth
    • Fiat currencies bring inflation as a default, until the central banks call in the debts and soak up the currency – as in the Great Depression
    • Speculating in the sectors that get the majority of the inflated currency investment – such as happened in the tech stocks until 2000, the real estate bubble until 2005, commodities from 2001-2010, and now the general stock market – is one of the few ways to increase wealth or keep pace with inflation.
    • We are either speculating ourselves with potential for profit, or the certain victim of someone else who is speculating, whenever we buy gas or diesel for our vehicles, pay an electricity bill, buy groceries, or buy anything made of metal, rubber, etc. such as batteries, tires – the routine stuff of life.

    In short, we are all speculating no matter how far from it we want to be. A fiat currency turns us all into unwilling gamblers where we can have an opportunity to keep pace or beat inflation, or lose consistently to the inflation demon.

    Yes, those of us buying gold and silver are still involved in speculating. For if gold and silver went to zero – as silver nearly did after the great Hunt brothers purchases were shut down and gold did after the post 80′s crash – then our insurance has largely disappeared.

    Not to beat a dead horse, but speculating is a key skill for a successful prepper – and that does not mean strictly in the financial markets.

    Our universe of choices for investing our money as preppers is far wider than the average, non-prepper investor.

    Guess what one of the top “investments” of 2013 is so far? Most financial advisers or CNBC fans would quickly scan their screens for the top stock or commodity. They might come up with Aurizon Mines and others that gained around 20% or more.

    Financial investments from the markets return absolute chicken feed when compared to how much .223 ammunition has increased: from 200% to 300% depending on the market. No capital gains taxes for small purchases. Yes, there are shipping and handling costs, but nonetheless, ammunition has been one of the best investment opportunities of the last 48 months. This is where preppers have a great advantage over traditional investors.

    We get to invest and prepare at the same time.

    Our decision tree looks much broader than someone that would never consider stored food, ammunition, firearms, specialty vehicles, food production equipment such as seeds and fertilizer, construction materials, energy production from solar power to batteries, and many other items as much more than preparation gear – but also investments. Additionally and most critically, books, DVD’s, training, and knowledge sources can also be considered as some of the most valuable investments.

    Here are some of the items a prepper might consider buying and their price rises over the past several years:

    For comparison, the stock market return for SP500 has been about 15% from 2011 until now Feb/2013, and about 6% from 2007 to now. Considering inflation – the average SP500 investor has lost significant money

    .223 ammo in 2006 could be bought at wholesale for approximately $80 per 1000 rds, then in 2008 it reached $250 / 1000, and now if a dealer can even find them .223 can run $800 for Lake City Ammo, a whopping 10X price increase in 6 years.

    As late as 2011, a decent AR15 sporting rifle, labeled by anti-freedom sorts as an “assault rifle,” could be found for between $650 and $1000 for low to medium level models. Now, if you can find an AR15, the price will be closer to $1200 to $1500 for a basic version. That works out to an investment return of 50-85% in less than one year!

    Storage batteries across the board – including lithium carbonate, nickel cadmium, nickel metal hydride, lead acid, and nickel zinc batteries have seen price increases of 15-25% per year. This price increase stems from raw materials, another aspect from E.P.A. regulations, and the near monopoly on mining and processing a few large manufacturers, plus the demand from Asia..but most of all, rampant money printing from around the world.

    Not all prepper related items have increased. Solar panels have thankfully dropped in price an average of 40% due to China flooding the market and new sources of silicon providing the raw material in abundance. However, the overall system costs have not decreased for an alternative energy system.

    Items such as generators, pumps, hand and power tools, machine tools, and farm implements have skyrocketed in cost. Throughout history, machine tools have been a key source of productivity, social advancement, political power – as they could be turned to making weapons, and ability to master a land and people. For example of the dramatic price increase or investment return, a small lathe such as this one:

    Could have been purchased for about $400 in 2008. That same lathe now sells for $999 and is sometimes difficult to even find in stock!

    Food prices have been increasing dramatically..February 2011 according to NY Times saw one month increases of 3.9% with lettuce jumping 27%. Beef prices are set to soar as the drought and environmental rules decimate the farmers and ranchers. This translates to storable food becoming an investment option with average yearly value increase above inflation at 7% to 10%.

    The summary for these facts is: Until you have far more than you want, need, or can use for barter, you are far better off buying more arms, ammo, food and tools, than getting involved in the financial markets. This is advice from a financial speculator, not a gun shop owner, someone selling freeze dried foods, or tools. Stock shares can be issued by the millions, while rifles take hard work, materials, skill, and time to produce by the hundreds. Same for ammo, gold, etc. No contest. Get prepared the financially smart way – and stay away from the financial markets until you have all the gear you want.

    This article has been generously contributed by Mark Solomon of the Financial Survival Center.


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      1. Sorry, apologize…but Duhhhhh

        • It really goes back to the utter deception and lying that the mainstream media and news tries to choke down everyone’s throat that everything is fine and dandy. After the utter lying of the size of that nuclear test in North Korea I am so convinced that the news is more National Inquirer than anything. A 2009 test that had a seismic reading of 4.5 or 4.6 and they said it was 2-6 kilotons and this time a 5.1 ONLY yielded a 6-7 kilotons. How stupid do they think we are. I have been in a 5.1 and a 4.6 and there is a whopping big difference.

          I don’t mean to harp on this, but I am enraged about the pure lying and horse manure that the news feeds us. These are pure lies to those too lazy to even think about it, the masses just accept it. If it is not the geophysical part it is the economy. Imagine what we are not being told about the situation over in the Middle East. It is sick conditioning that all but wonderful sites like this get shovelled down upon everyone.

          Then they want to disarm us. China and Russia could avoid using nuclear weapons to any extent and invade this country via Red Dawn style. What would prevent the U.S. from losing immediately? The well armed militia that are the citizens in this country. Yet that harpy feinstienless and other gun grabber parasitic creeps want to take away our protection, the very backbone of the defense of the country. Those anti-gun creeps want us to one day fight the well armed Chinese, Russian, Ms-13 gangs and whatever other enemies with very limited firearms. These anti-gun slimes spew the same misinformation that the news spread like a disease, that everyhting is fine in lollipop land.

          Thank God for sites like this one that have free thought and intelligent talk about all angle of an equation. Mac, I know I have said this before, but thank you for all that you do and that this site does. Also thank you for all that contribute constructive talk to SHTFplan. The dumbing down of people is a plague and getting worse each day. Be ready everyone out there, it is coming, it is coming in spades. 🙁

          • Show This to Anyone That Believes That “Things are Getting Better” In America

            “By almost every economic and financial measure, the U.S. economy has been steadily declining for many years. But most Americans are so tied into “the matrix” that they can only understand the cheerful propaganda that is endlessly being spoon-fed to them by the mainstream media.

            …the economic collapse is not a single event. The economic collapse has been happening, it is happening right now, and it will continue to happen. … We are living in the greatest debt bubble in the history of the world, and once it completely bursts there will be no going back to how things were before.”

            “Right now, we are living in a “credit card economy”. As long as we can keep borrowing more money, most people think that things are just fine. But anyone that has lived on credit cards knows that eventually there comes a point when the game is over, and we are rapidly approaching that point as a nation.”

            “We are a nation that is completely addicted to debt, but as the financial crisis of 2008 demonstrated, all of that debt can have horrific consequences.”

            “Overall, the value of the U.S. dollar has declined by more than 96 percent since the Federal Reserve was first created.”


            • This is too be informed again. How can anyone give you 4-5 thumbs down for an honest intellegent post? There are some really stupid people that visit this site or people that have grudges against us free independent thinkers and preppers who themselves can’t survive on their own without their mommy or government assistance. They can have an I-phone with all their fake friends who could care less about them before they take responsibility for themselves and even try to work for a living doing anything. You can tell these younger liberals who have no goals but to think they are right and never wrong(sounds like someone we know speaking tonight). They would rather beg and steal before they try to even work a fast food job and try to have pride. But they are going to be in for a wild ride soon and I do feel sorry for them a tad, they just don’t know any better growing up and learned the wrong things or nothing at all.

              • “Trolls”

                • Southern Gal:
                  reminds me of a joke, “What does it mean when a troll
                  has one blue eye and one brown eye?– He’s a quart low on shit!”

                  • I’m not sure what a “troll” is, but I like your joke.

          • BI,

            “enraged about the pure lying and horse manure that the news feeds us. These are pure lies to those too lazy to even think about it, the masses just accept it.”

            I’m way past enraged…I’m deep into cynicism. It’s starting to affect my overall outlook. That’s why I keep coming up with duhhh when truth comes out or someone puts 2 + 2 together correctly…regardless of whether MSM is saying it’s 4.235…not 4.

            Stupid should hurt.

            • Same here Kindle, same here….

            • One of my bylines:
              “A cynic is seldom, if ever, proven wrong.”

              Live for it, Kindle!

              • Thanks Zoltanne,
                I’ve been thinking lately I need to withdrawl-disengage and just go do mindless stuff. Almost everything I read leaves me saying duhhh…hello? Where ya been? Just now waking up to all this?

                Arghhhhh…I’m gonna go water my plants in the sunroom and try to find a better frame of mind. Apologies

                • Kindle the negative or doom and gloom can get to all of us and wear at us. This is when a hobby or like you say, something mindless, can give us that time to go inward. Some pray, some take a walk, others meditate or ‘zone out’, or play with a pet — whatever works. 🙂 But you know, as more and more of our days get filled with frightening or depressing events or news, we all need to remember how overwhelmed or bogged down we can become — we have to take time out to unload our burdens.

                • You need a lab puppy. Get one and explain all your problems to it. Then follow it’s advise. “Pee when you have to, sleep in the sun, and always get our tummy rubbed.”

                  • Ok Paranoid,
                    You made me laugh with that one. Thanks

                    I think I am reacting to an article on being “profitable” and “prosperous” during SHTF situation. Makes me think of Rahm “never let a good crisis go to waste” or the elite/bankers/PTB who would be thinking how they can “profit” from a lot of bad stuff that’s gonna hurt good people.

                    Thanks for laugh though!

                  • Hey Para – excellent point with pet. My ole 130lb German Shepherd teaches me how to take it less seriously all the time, otherwise the insanity & madness around all of us becomes oppressive.

                    Best time is playing tug, going for a ride, and hugging the dog while basking in the sun. Clears the head.

                • kindle,

                  I feel the same way. need an outlet. I started with appreciating what I have now before we lose it. Having lost power for 1 week due to tornado and another week from october storm 2 years ago I’m thankful for the basics. Hot shower.ATake out pizza. warm home. lights. It helps the time pass a little easier. Gets my mind off the anger of people who dont get it if only for a few minutes

                • Go to wimp dot com and watch videos for a few hours. Just pick one and then keep clicking on next. Some of them will make you smile and forget. I do that sometimes before bedtime.

            • kindle – every time a new prepper opens their eyes its a bonus for our side. please try to be patient with them. dont you remember how overwhelming it all seemed when you firsts started to figure what money went where? and i am sure there are new folks finding this site every week. being condesending doesnt help them learn. dh and i havent been prepping long; too busy keeping afloat to pay attention to what the pricks in d.c. were up to.

              • kimintn,
                True about the new preppers and new folks to this site. The frustration comes from years and years of people being condesending to me about prepping. Spent years trying to wake people up only to be looked as if I were some kind of nut. Now people are waking up and are astonished…

                I was prepping and paying attention to the state of affairs while poor and trying to stay afloat…so I don’t accept it as an excuse.

            • Kindle: I agree, we are living in the land of the stupid and the home of the coward. Community leaders, state and local politicians, church leaders are for the most part gelding cowards/sissy’s who won’t speak out against gov control freaks, Obummer health care, deception/lies by leaders, and stand up for the Constitution/free markets, closing the borders, etc. 99% of politicians are self serving greedy scum. Church leaders are IRS puppet/geldings.

            • State of the union speech tonight.
              The wind mill hooked up to the manure spreader–again!

          • Bravo to both Mark and BI. Agree BI, thank God for sites like this one.
            Mark, thanks for a simple and logical approach to investing.

          • be informed, I have to agree with you most of the time. But these damn liberals want us disarmed? Go ahead and turn them in(if you think you should or feel its the law idiots) But the day these gays and lesbians want us disarmed and think they get their way and the country collases and all breaks outs. What are the gays and lesbians going to do? Speak out front with signs and protest during a civil war? They will be very suprised when they are out front demanding their justice and someone puts a bullet in their lovers head. Makes you wonder what these people think or believe they are in a fantasyland or in some movie. This is the real world you gays/lesbians! Nobody is going to play nice and do what you ask. People are out for themselves! Get a clue. If you can’t agree with this then you are either stupid or not a survivalist in all reality.

            Good post be-informed.

            • Not all liberals are against gun ownership, Clint. I used to consider myself domocrat/liberal. I have never considered myself conservative. However, the thought that someone would try to take away my constitutional rights–especially the right to protect myself with firearms, you have no idea how much rage that makes me feel!

              I have a very strong sense of right and wrong.. whether its concerning my civil liberties or concerning all the BS put out by climate deniers. (I’ve researched climate change extensively!) Anyhow, I don’t believe in government anymore–its all a sham. Its no longer a matter of “republican or democrat”. Rather, you’re awake, have done the research and know what’s happening or you’re still in LaLa Land.

              • I’m a “climate denier”? You’ll have to elaborate about your “extensive” knowledge about climate change and its causes…….please do.

              • Grasshopper, I realize that many democrats are not against guns, yes I know that. There are many union people that work hard jobs that consider themselves union members in electrician jobs in factories etc. I know this grasshopper. I should of explained myself better. Im not a very good writter. I write how I speak which makes it very difficult. My professor in college is bigtime liberal and Im more GOP. He liked me since i respected his views and he was the boss. He would grade my papers and ask my what the hell did you write I cant follow it, im all over the place. Once i sat down and explained it he totally understood and got it and gave me a pretty decent grade.

          • I expect to see many media talking heads in the docket at Nuremberg 2.

          • The news feeds us the crap the federal and state governments put out, i dont even bother with any msm or govt releases any more, for all we know that meteor that is supposed to buzz by is headed straight for us, sorta looked that way based on the spaceweather web site, when the govt is admitting they are 16t in the hole they are most likely 10 times that, sorta like unemployment, im no math whiz but even i can add 350k/wk X 52wks X 4yrs and compare it to 150k/month X 12months X 4yrs. It doesnt add up to a good number, put that next to the unfunded liability of all the various public worker retirement and medical benefits and its not a wonder why these dick smokers want to take our ability to blow them full of holes away.

        • I heard that AR’s were going for three grand. Also, that $10, 30 round magazines are going for $40.

          Don’t know, just relaying info from my conversation with the PPD officer and his dad.

      2. I saw what was coming and stocked up on some cool “black” boomsticks and those thingies that hold those things that fly out of the hole when you flip that switch and a bunch of the “new” PMs. Too bad I got really drunk one night and forgot where I hid all of it.

        • I have a new saying; Come and take WHAT?

          • Do your best “Vinnie Barbarino” impression…

      3. You should be fully prepped then have most of your savings in the precious metals that you have in your possession.

        • SHTF? Looks like it already has to me. Seriously, when the basic necessities to survive are going through the roof, becoming unaffordable or unobtainable — I mean WTF!

          Shame what has happened to our country.
          I hope those responsible pay for what they have done.

          • I wish I could give you more than one thumbs up.

            I also hope that those that are responsible have to walk in the shoes of those that they screwed before they pay for what they have done. I hope they have to wear rags and beg for their next meal.

            • I hope they all take a .308 HPBT through their left eyesocket

          • They’ll pay when, not if, we make them accountable.

            The fix is beyond the ballot box. Semper Fi. III

        • If you really think that there’s going to be a shtf event in the near future you should be cashing in some of those PMs and going to school and learning a skill. Welding, furniture making, pottery, blacksmithing, carpentry, farming, gardening, solar repair and installation, wine beer and spirit making, shoe making………

          The investment will be in you. If your investments are in PMs and barter goods, eventually you will run out. A skill will last you a life time.

          Prepped beans, bacon and bullets are not an investment, they’re an insurance.

      4. One man — ONE MAN — has for almost a week frightened and tied up the law enforcement resources of an entire state I’m sure the Feds are making their contributions behind the scenes too. This is a cautionary tale for any citizen disarmament advocate who blindly assumes (as stupidly as the LAPD was last week) that the “authorities” are up the challenges of the civil war that their appetites seem bent upon creating.

        • VRF,
          I’ve been thinking the very same thing. We keep seeing on MSN that when “they” execute a search warrant on a house they send in 20, 30 or more “officiers. Serious overkill or paranoia…not sure which.

          What are they going to do when they have 10’s of millions of pissed off gun owners refusing to give up their guns? I bettin’ martial law….only way they could pull it off.

          And the sheeple will go along..baaaa

          • VRF and Kindle, this one man evading the authorities is very encouraging. Look at the manhours and cost to find one man. Don’t know the whole truth about this situation but I do hope he can continue to evade capture. Hopefully, no one else gets killed, with that said: I would like to hear his side of the story, though his story will end in his death.

            • You can read his side, and it reads very well from his standpoint scary. His letter is posted lots of places just Google it.

              • I downloaded that myself . it is an interesting read . Only dirty cops have anything to worry about with this guy . of coarse everyone needs to worry about the cops and feds looking to exicute him .

                • Anyone driving a similar truck or vehicle resembling like what he is thought to be driving better watch out.

            • DRD5508,

              Hey, maybe you could give him a place to stay, you know help him evade capture as you stated. Yea, maybe he will evade long enough to kill some more innocent children of the people he hated, and their friends to. Pretty sick and disgusting mentality, join his fan club, the liberals love him because he just loves Obama and the hollywood croud. Guess they don’t want to share that part of his manifesto. This pig is nothing but a vile, sick murderer and he should be executed.

              • Looks like “the shoot out is on” but not quite yet…police want to get all their guys in place first.

                MSM reporting Dorner has exchanged fire with police and are holed up. Will it be 100 bullets or 200? Do they have the right guy or another innocent person?

                Regardless, you know Dorner will not walk away alive.

                • Kindle,

                  This will be a slaughter. No way will they let this guy be taken alive. Hell even LSM is setting it up for a killing.


                  • Funny, they made the helicopters back off…guess they don’t want their overkill reaction viewed by gazillions.

                  • or maybe a drone stike….just to get the Americans used to it on US soil…..ya know?

                  • They probably do not to lose a helicopter. Those things cost a million and a half dollars or more apiece.

                    His .50 Cal Barrett could take them down.

              • The pigs who killed innocents at Ruby Ridge and Waco should be executed too. No one was even indicted.

                Funny, when the PTB kill innocents they are labeled as “collateral damage” and not “innocents”; but depersonalized and dehumanized.

                War is hell and this man is at war.

                • BTW, imagine if Dohner shows up to the funerals for the slain cops. Its a shooting gallery.

                • Collateral Damage is a military term…not that you dont know it but it helps explain the attitude of cops shooting up innocents…just a thought!

                • Actually, DK, Lon Horiuchi WAS indicted for murder by the State of Idaho, but the Federal District Court in Boise intervened and got him out of the State.

                  A couple months later Horiuchi was at Waco. They kept the press 1 mile away and the front door of the Davidians’ home, the key piece of evidence of who fired first, went missing. Like OKC, WTC, and the Weaver cabin, the Davidians’ home was all very quickly bulldozed and hauled away so nobody could mount evidence against the real perpetrators. Much later the FBI helicopter FLIR footage was released, very clearly showing men dismounting from one of the tanks, starting the fire, and, as people tried to escape the blaze, they were gunned down by machine gun fire:


                  Incidentally, in 2008 HS Precision had the gall to use Lon Horiuchi to endorse their rifle stocks. After many furious complaints, HS Precision made a lame excuse and said they would not include any endorsements in their 2009 catalog.

                  • Live Free…: What a great sales pitch, “need to shoot a kid in the back, or a mother holding her baby, have we got the rifle for you”! “This rifle has been endorsed by the U.S. Marshall’s Assasination Squad”. Yeah, I know, that’s some pretty sick shit for anybody to think.

                • You are sick!

              • Sounds like the msm has you hook, line and sinker.

                Haven’t you seen enough of this bs?

            • Remember the man who bombed an abortion clinic some years ago and hid out in the woods of NC and SC? He lived several years on his own and they never did find him. Of course, modern technology has invented new forms of harassment and oversight. Now, they’d just send a drone to kill him off.

              • Remember that when they couldn’t pin the olympic park bombing on Richard Jewel (after harassing him for months or years, and taking his mom’s Tupperwareout in boxes as “evidence”), they blamed Rudolf. They only caught Rudolf because he got lazy. I got a kick out of the “Run,Run, Rudolf T-shirts.

            • not agreeing with what he did, but for the cops to be hunting to kill him rather than capture him (as evidenced by the shooting up of innocent trucks!), denying him due process shows us all what a police state we live in.

              we are suppose to be a nation of laws, and while the bastard deserve to die for killing those people, there are procedures in place that need to be followed. kill on sight is NOT in the constitution. if it happens to him, it can happen to any of us.

          • my thoughts, they wont “call out” matial law..reason will give us all the heads up we all bear that in mind.. martial law has probably already been called, we just didnt get the memo..or it will very much go down like that, you wont know it happened until after its happened, and..,.to add how stupid they would have to be thinking that if they call martial law that its just going to calm everything thats when the rubber meets the fuckin road bro

            • The control grid keeps tightening. Yet, the media keeps this news quiet.

              DHS has now created “Constitution-free zones” all in the name of “national security.”

              According to this new ‘policy’, DHS can seize electronic devices without a warrant within 100 miles of the border.

              They consider the border as “any national barrier, political or physical. THIS INCLUDES BODIES OF WATER.”

              The article includes a map showing the “border zone” areas – includes many major cities.


            • Just a thought that I had the other day that I’d like to share. How easy would it be to keep the average American in the dark if SHTF were planned out to happen on a given day? I’m not talking about the slow boil that we are seeing today, but a full blown tyranical takeover that would leave a wake of bodies, a truely unthinkable act of violence against our own people.
              Could your FB page be ‘faked’, given that your friends are now being profiled, that status updates could be automated to appear to be from their own thoughts? Could some random emails be withheld for a few days and then sent out on the said day, also automatically, just to make it seem as though the world was still working?
              We already know that news is sometimes faked. Could TPTB vault away prerecorded ‘news’ set to be broadcasted on the days and weeks after ‘Day X’?
              Just look at how much of our programming is reruns. How easy or hard would it be to fake a day that never happened? Would you notice if a traffic cam in NY or LA had been looped from a previous feed? Would you even notice? I would not, as I have never looked to begin with. There are far too many examples that I could make but the point is to think and answer what, if anything have you experienced today that is truely ‘live’? How do you know for certain that what you percieved as a ‘live’ event did not happen weeks ago, carefully engineered in a controlled environment?
              After thinking about this scenario for a few days, I would have to guess that the ‘news’ centered around ‘Day X’ would relate to a major hacking attack on multiple fronts against the U.S. It would provide a likely cover story for the immediate discoveries of forgeries as well as explain some of the shutdowns of services that would coincide with their plans. If one prerecorded event had blatent flaws, it could be blamed on hackers.
              Just a word about the plausability of this scenario. It would not have to stand the test of time, for the justification of using a large scale tactic would be to simply buy more time and keep the peace for as long as possible.
              If you take this scenario to the next level, you will realize that our system has been ENGINEERED to deal with this possibility. 24 hour news networks don’t need to be prerecorded, as we know they are part of the conspiracy, they will gladly spin their crap day in and day out, even if it’s completely false and the real world is burning outside.
              Everything we do electronically is stolen away from us and meticulously catagorized. Your online habits are closely watched to build a profile of your beliefs, shopping habits, etc. Enough information is collected to reproduce who you are for a while anyway, even after you are gone.
              No matter where you live, I bet you have 3 or 4 local channels that are cookie cutter versions of every other city in the U.S. all ran by the same enterprise with the same goal. Ever wonder why we don’t see more variations in reporting? Why do they have to follow such a tight rope? Maybe they are afraid of who’s got the other end of that rope?

              • Kinda like Chris Rock. U aint ever seen him with tail tucked like the other night when he read the appology wrote for him. I believe the screws can be put to anyone now days. Yes, even use but I plan on getting as many rounds down range before lights out. Semper Fi. III

                • Us, even us.

                • Im with you on this thought, figure it will be one wild last hunting and camping out marathon

              • I think you are spot on Chainsaw. Even the conservative radio and tv stations don’t bring up half the things we discuss on this board. I have listened to Tom Sullivan for over 30 years and know his financial background very well. He knows what the problems are but since he went national he went stupid. So yes I think there is colusion between the government and the press. The hard hitting press of yesteryear has been co-opted in some way.

          • I just read they pinned him in a cabin. Here’s some quotes from the article—

            “Suspect is pinned down next to the shooting scene,” a San Bernardino dispatcher could be heard saying over a police radio channel. “Marshals have a positive ID and visual of the suspect.”

            “Fire doing quite well. I’m going to let it go.”

            Police captain to officers surrounding the house: “If you see something catching on fire that’s not supposed to be you let me know, otherwise let it go.”


            I think it’s pretty clear they wanted him DEAD, and maybe they got what they wanted, maybe not.

        • VRF,

          Its pretty funny what fools they are, they keep searching that same area over and over with no luck. He pulled a ropa-dope. He is not there and the more time they waste searching for him the futher away he gets.I have to hand it to the man he sure is f–king with them..LOL.


          • seems like he sure has thier number doent it?

            and he is going to ride out their funding as much as posssible, LAPD is probably one of the most broke PD’s out there..and after a few million is spent on trying to find this guy, it will slowly go back to every day cop work, with a few sragglers actually working on this guys case, and its than if he is still alive that he will strike..he could leave for quite a while, then come back a year later..hey..he’s let this thing build in him over 5 years, he sounds like a very patient man.

            he could easily look like a black Mooslum by now, long grey beard, towel on the bald head..different clothing and surroundings, he wouldnt even be looked at twice if a cop was standing on the opposite side of the counter at a dunkin dohnuts and this guy was the server.

            yeah i think your right he’s F-ing with them and making them spend resources they dont have ,, all the while weakining thier resolve, thier finances, and thier resources.. not to mention thier mind set..its tuff to go around looking over your shoulder every move you make, it wears you out, the cops are scared and rightfully so, they fucked over someone and thought it was over..,surprise

        • VRF: Soooo right!! This just proves that one good guerrilla is worth more than ten thousand monkeys. Hell, if one good guerrilla can force a 10,000 man armed para-military force to hunker down and shoot at anything that moves, like a bunch of freaked out squealing little pussies, just think what will happen when they piss off 10,000 guerrilla’s!!! LOLOL!!!!

          • HA. Thank you. Praise the Lord and pass the ammo.

            Semper Fi. III

          • @ CrabbeNebulae, you may or may not fully understand the profound TRUTH that is encapsulated in your comment. For arguments sake, let us assume 1 MILLION pissed-off and resolute guerrillas in the mechanics of this system. ALL with the ability to disappear back into the fabric of “society” after any “engagement”.

            Does this sound like or represent a scenario that ANYONE representing THEIR agenda would desire to be a “live target” in on a daily basis? SOMEONE HAS MADE A FATAL STRATEGY AND LOGISTICS ERROR. Future recruitment of additional “forces” will be a serious challenge. And THEY will suffer catastrophic casualties on a chronic and demoralizing schedule.

            WE CAN AND WILL PREVAIL. The proposed advantage of “superior technology and firepower” will fail in the face of overwhelming guerrilla tactics. HISTORY has proven this time and again. OUR TIME is no different. Molon Labe!

          • Reminds me of Dan Fong from Patriots

        • No kidding, right?

          I bet he’s leaving false trails all over the place. “I’ll go buy… hmmm…. I know! Scuba gear! And get videoed on purpose! Heh that’ll REALLY f*ck them up!”

          And now in the dumbest move of all time, they offer a $1M reward for this guy.

          Hey I saw a large black man… it must be him! Right?

          Now they will be running in circles like a hyperactive kid on Froot Loops. Nice resource deployment there, guys.

          • Aaaand I spoke too soon.

            Crackle crackle.

            I’m surprised, frankly. Well not at the crackle crackle. That utterly fails to surprise me.

            No, I’m surprised the LAPD (of all people) could actually pull this off. Generally speaking, the Keystone Cops do a better job than these guys.

            • Unless of course this is merely a creative way to retract that $1M mistake.

              Who knows, might be a cabin full of sawdust until we see the body.

              Then again, seems unlikely. I dounbt they’d shoot one of their own over it.

              Or do I?


      5. Give me liberty, or give me death!

        • Screw that. Give me liberty, or you’ll die trying to take it away.

      6. That’s why the first thing to invest in is a Crystal Ball.

        Too bad they’re so hard to come by. But then again, that’s what makes them so valuable.

        • Luv that wit. 🙂

        • only if it fits down the barrel of your CANNON…

      7. I had a really impressive chart, with ziggy arrows up and down and stuff, to prove my investment theory. But I spilled Dr Pepper on it and ruined it. It wasn’t a total loss though, the pop was already warm and flat. So…from memory, here is what the chart said:

        Investment Item………………Net Profit or Loss From 1985 to 2012

        New, unopened Billy Ray Cyrus Albums…………Down 227%
        Lottery Tickets……………………………Down 100%
        600 Copies of ‘Preparing For Y2K'(2004edition)..Down 99%
        Beanie Babies …………………………….Down 125%
        60 Cartons Marlboros(stored in freezer)………Up 112%
        Adjusted after Cost of cleaning nicotine stains from freezer…Up 19%
        24 Pints Jim Beam………………………….Up 165%
        Adjusted after Y2K Survival Party……………Down 100%
        Vegas wager on Milli Vanilli to win 2nd Grammy..Down 100%

        As you can see, most of our investments have not done too well. I blame the economy.

        • Smokie, you should try blaming GWB, Tsunami/earthquake, snowstorms, Hurricane Sandy, Nemo, too much heat, not enough heat, anything but the economy. Seems to work for the sheeple anyway.

        • Hey Smokin,

          Are you snowed in over there yet? We have got 6 inches so far at my place and its still sowing..


          • Just some drizzle in Wichita Falls. I ran out of the snow early this morning, south of Amarillo, around Memphis I think….hammer down to Cow Town!

        • OMG, SmokiOkie. Too damn funny! Thanks for the great laugh.

          KySSG . . . out.

          • okie dokie Okie!!! your funny.

        • Mr. Okie….That is freakin’ hilarious!!

        • Good call, Okie. Good call.

        • It’s a good thing I only have one Beanie baby. My other “investments” have gone up though.

          I still have my seeds from Y2K. I started germination testing today with blackeye peas, navy beans, and pole lima beans. More tomorrow. I have saved boxes that the grocery store bakery sells sliced cakes in. My church has meals, and I save the boxes. I am using them as miniature greenhouses, but I have put them in my big greenhouse. I soaked the seeds for an hour in warm water. I have some little orange plastic cups that cat food came in. I put square-foot garden mixture in each cup, planted the seeds, and put them in the cake boxes.

          Always something to be done.

      8. Remember the sniper team in DC a number of years back, father and son I think. I was in DC during that period and NO ONE wanted to go outside or do anything. You put 4 or 5 sniper teams in a bunch of cities and they would shut down. The cops only found those two because some guy saw them sleeping at a rest stop on the Interstate. Utter chaos if the shooting starts. Always wondered why Al Qaeda didn’t do that, get 10 teams and head to the cities and just become snipers.

        • Plarvo: Yes your right! Three sniper teams going cross country, 1 North route, 2 Mid route, and the Third Southern route, completely shut this country down for weeks if not months. Oh and take out some electric sub-stations, and gas pipe lines along the way.


      9. I really don’t consider prep items (guns, bullets, food, etc) to be investments. Investments are only that if you are willing to sell them. How many preppers are selling their AK’s and cases ammo right now? They are defense and insurance items, not investments.

        • MX,
          I agree…you could look at them as an investment to have a future for you and yours….but insurance works just as well.

      10. I think that a prepper, by definition, ought to be focused on preparing for chaos. Planning to make a profit in a collapse is like playing the lottery. The unpredictability of a meltdown makes it unwise to try and plan with profit in mind. Profit is relative to the stability of your culture. For example, I may predict accurately which stocks to buy for the greatest profit in a collapse, but if that profit is paid in dollars it may just mean that I make a lot of worthless money if we have hyper inflation. The inflation will steal my profit. Also, my investing in gold would be profitable in that case, but the price of gold is still valued in a worthless dollar and will buy less even though it goes up in price.
        In a new system, the old measuring stick for profit won’t be applicable. The value of investments like gold or silver is not so that I can make a quick buck in this current system, but rather to store away something that will likely have value under whatever the new system is. For example if, the dollar were replaced by another currency, then gold and silver would likely have a fair value when I exchange it for the new currency. Dollars may not. Furthermore, silver is likely to be a form of currency in the intermediate.
        In my opinion, I would treat my profit oriented investments as short term and be prepared for them to possibly vanish, while treating my prepper investments as catastrophic insurance and if they happen to be profitable in the new system its gravy on top.

        • Exactly, your profit will be the life you and your family live afterwards. May it be a long and happy one!

      11. MXLord,

        I agree I am not selling any ammo. Only a fool would sell right now. I have had many offers to purchase even some of my reloads at $1.00 per bullet but I will not sale. And if you wanna talk P.M’s then pick up brass it has gone sky high. Late summer I could pick up 5.56 once fired brass for 50.00 per 500, Today it has gone up to 25.00 per 100 do the math on that.The best part of all of this I have yet to buy a single round of ammo. Hold that ammo brother its worth as much as gold today..


        PS I race a 2 stroke bud, I am a KTM Man.

        • Wish I could afford a new KTM 250SX, but will be sticking with the old YZ250 (2 stroke of course) for another year. Also reloading another 250 rounds of 9mm 115 grain HP’s this weekend, can never have enough!!

          • MXLord,

            Keep that reloading up bud, I finally found some more primers today, don’t think you can ever have to many primers.I loaded up a bunch last weekend. I kept my 300 EXC from 2001 season just can’t bring myself to it or my Harley. Looks like they ogt that Donner fellow cornered we shall see. Also it looks like anoy is trying to screw up tonightd SOTU address tonight. Keep prepping brother.


            • I stopped in at a Big5 today in Grass Valley to check out this ammo shortage. They had no 22 cal in stock. Lady said to me, and she had the words down like she had told 100 people the same thing today at 11:00 AM, that a shipment would be in at 10:00 tomorrow morning, there would be a line and they would be out by 10:30.

              Bought a 100 rounds for the Mosin Nagan and two boxes of CO2 cartridges with 25 each. Hey the way its going might as well have some thing to shoot small game with and good for practice as well. Wont have to use my existing stash of ammo.

      12. “Divide your portion to seven, or even to eight, for you do not know what misfortune may occur on the earth.” Ecclesiastes 11:2

        The dominoes appear to be in place. The pieces of the puzzle are coming together. Which piece will cause the first domino to fall? It’s going to be one heck of a ride however it all turns out.

        • Thanks WG, I appreciate the Word. Water for my dry mind.

      13. The days of Wall Street are over in this household. Can’t say I didn’t enjoy making a nice wad of profit but before the crisis, it was obvious what was going to occur. Couldn’t convince a single friend to get out. Oh well, their loss. And oh what a loss it was…..

        Then came those days when you could pick up shares of CITI for a few bucks. With a long position, it was highly probable that a nice gain would be realized. But no — the days of Wall Street were over. They crossed the line. So I passed…..It was over. Principles rule over profit and I don’t regret the ‘loss’ had an investment been made.

        Around here there is no Wall Street. No commercial financing. No banking. No debt.

        Now the only investments are in tangibles. We know what they are, and the best part is that every one of those tangibles looks a helluva lot nicer on shelves, in closets, racks, and buckets that some e-statement from some Rockefeller-owned financial institute.

      14. In the land of the blind, the one-eyed prepper is king.

        • Always ask a one legged man for directions. They always know the shortest route.

      15. @BI: I for one classify you SIR as from the mold of the Warrior. Also Mac Slavo;

        Of every One-Hundred men, Ten shouldn’t even be there,
        Eighty are nothing but targets,
        Nine are real fighters…
        We are lucky to have them… They make the battle.
        AH, but the ONE, ONE of them is a Warrior…
        And HE will bring the others back.
        Heraclitus (500 B.C.)

        Thank both of you for what you do for us.

      16. @ BI, thanks for the quake predictions and good call on the North Korean nuke. Maybe some day the doubters will just go away. You have nailed it again and again. Good job.

        @ Okie, thanks for the laugh. Millie Vanillie got ROBBED!!

        I’m a firm believer that we are already in the beginning of the end times. The middle east is a powder keg, Iran will continue on and Israel will eventually attack, possibly starting WWIII in the process, North Korea has nukes and is run by a nut job. I could go on and on.

        What really chaps me is what Be Informed stated in a previous post. The United States has about every mineral as a resource, oil enough to be self sufficient and even export for a long long time, lies in the perfect latitude for agricultural production and yet we as a nation are insanely in debt to the Commie Chinese to the tune of $1.3 billion. We are getting kicked around the planet by the ChiComs.

        There is no reason why this nation should be on the verge of collapse other than the greed of the few.

        I pray I’m wrong.

        God Bless,

        • NP
          Off topic, but just thought you might like this. Just finished reading a book titled “God and Guns, Why I am not a Pacifist”, by Greg Perry. About 100 pages, very good Christian read.

          If there are any new Christians wondering how Christ viewed self defense, this should help clear things up.

          “Will the last American leaving L.A. please turn off the lights and take down the Flag”.

          • Sadly that’s probably going to be me.

            Damn, get me out of this festering hole.

          • I like your last line…still some good ones there.

            I can’t convince them to leave or they just can’t get out.

            it makes me sad.

        • @ Norse Prepper. Isn’t it awful that the United States can be totally self sufficent of everyone else, yet the U.S. owes to the Chinese mafia like some loan shark. It is something that deserves a rapid head shaking back and forth. I am just glad there are some many intelligent people on this site that add to each other’s future well being after this happens. Thank you again for your own persoanl contributions to the site, your articles are truly enjoyable.

        • @Norse Prepper:

          “There is no reason why this nation should be on the verge of collapse other than the greed of the few”

          This is one of the most cogent statements anyone has ever written. It is obvious, irrefutable, and utterly and completely true. Good job.

        • I remember reading years ago that the only raw material the US doesn’t have much of is chromium.

          A little trivia: I also remember reading years ago that NC is the only state where you can mine every single one of the top 300 minerals commercially mined in the US. That includes granite, mica, talc, gold, silver, tin, copper, sapphires, and some really big butt emeralds.

          • But how long can we keep digging up NC, or any place for that matter? Eventually, you run out of road.

            • No, eventually we will figure out fusion energy and start recycling all materials. At that point, recycling will cost almost nothing compared to mining. We may see factories in the future, where junk, garbage, and sewage go in one end, and cars, toys, and hamburgers come out the other end. By that time, world population will have stabilized or even started to decrease. I don’t know that we’ll live to see it, but that’s my long-term prediction.

        • @Norse Prepper, again outstanding post. There is no reason other than greed that we are here now.

          Take a look at this awesome nation, we have absolutly everything a human could want and more right here on our soil. Why, why oh why are we in debt to anyone for anything?

      17. I played the stock market for a couple weeks and became a millionaire. I started out as a billionaire. That’s OK though, because I found a great new investment. My Aunt’s cousin’s friend makes $96 an hour at home on her computer. If you want to you can do this,too. Call 867-5309 and ask for Jenny. Better yet,get some “crisp $10 bills and some #10 cans” and save them for the bad times ahead. RIP Mushroom.

      18. Emanuel pressures banks to dry up funds to Ruger, S&W

        S&W should buy up Emanuel and send his ass to mexico..or better yet S&W should pull out and come to a gun friendly state and tell Emanuel to suck on S&W’s tax payements to his city.

        Emanuel forgets..S&W dont need him as much as his state needs them and the jobs and tax it looks to me that S&W holds all the cards, and should lesson Emanuel by pulling the rug out from under him

        Hey S&W if you need a sales and tech guy for my state..gimme a your stuff, be more then happy to run a show( manufacturing base) for you in my area

      19. Check this out. Gun Owners of America (GOA) doing good work. Read what they stated, it is scary. Good for them to state actual facts!


      20. I’m just hoping the whole anti gun thing blows over, then all those who bought in at the last minute will need to unload (pun intended) and give us some deals – I always like more practice and at these prices I have to hold onto the hoards and practice less.

      21. One should not forget about the most important thing to prep, and that is your body. It won’t do you any good to have a bunch of stuff if you get sick easily. Hospital bills will eat your retirement in a hurry. Simple stuff will do a lot, like vitamins, yearly chechups(health & dental). You have everything when you have your health.
        stay strong.

      22. Remember Fort Hood shooting?

        Three years after the White House arranged a hero’s welcome at the State of the Union address for the Fort Hood police sergeant and her partner who stopped the deadly shooting there, Kimberly Munley says President Obama broke the promise he made to her that the victims would be well taken care of.

        “Betrayed is a good word,” former Sgt. Munley told ABC News in a tearful interview to be broadcast tonight on “World News with Diane Sawyer” and “Nightline.”

        “Not to the least little bit have the victims been taken care of,” she said. “In fact they’ve been neglected.”

      23. The auther lives way above my pay scale.

      24. another way to look at this
        It wouldn’t surprise me that Dorner was already murdered by the LAPD and what is going on now is a staged ruse to incite more fear into the populace for gun control measures. Look at all the problems with Sandy Hook like the so called bus driver dropping off kids to a wierdo possible pedofile that doesn’t even call 911 when the fire department is right down the road and closer to the school., so than why didnt the bus driver take the “kids” there first?

        sorry i got off on a tangent, i think you all get the point

      25. Mr. Solomon,

        Are there the possibilities for bubbles in these investments? If, say, the NRA wins the good fight and no real legislation passes will those buying ARs at $2000 look pretty foolish?

        Or should I still consider buying at today’s prices?

        In other words, Is past performance an accurate indicator for future success?

        Preppers should get together and form coop general stores – no storefront just warehouses – sales at small profits out the back shipping dock. Dry goods, hand tools, ammunition. Even if we have laughable “sales figures” the warehouse could still be considered an investment bank of “goods”. Not that bad of an idea, eh? Oh yeah, thats right, none of us trust each other. And, OPSEC is a terrible advertising strategy. : )

        • I really like the co-op idea!

          • Thanks.

            I’m not sure how much cash I could convince the boss (my wife) to ever put into something like this, but I would probably be interested in putting 4 or 5 thousand into an Idea like this. Like I said though, I probably wouldn’t trust anybody to keep the books and I would be weary about how secure it would be if trouble ever arose.

            I always liked the idea of investing in tangibles, but where do you store 1000s of pounds of wheat, rice, ammo, etc. in a 3 bedroom apartment?

            I also always thought if I hit a windfall, it would be a great inflation hedge to buy and run a hardware store. This was just a kind of mix of those Ideas.

      26. I just dug out my old pre digital age slide rule thinking yeah, better throw that in.

        • I still have three of them, including a pocket-sized one.

      27. Its unfortunate, but the reality is that the majority of police have the same profile as the career criminal – able to shift the role they play at a drop of the hat. Indeed, research reveals that disrespect and abuse of human rights may directly contribute to the creation of new criminals, for them to play their power game of cops and robbers with

      28. Lead outperformed the S&P 500 how awesome is that?

        I bet moldy Cheerios would outperform the S&P 500.

        Problem with this analysis. Preps are not liquid assets. If you plan to use them it makes a ton of sense. If you plan to barter them, then, strictly speaking, AT PRESENT it does not.

        People have normalcy bias this is true, but they’re not completely insane. Blind, perhaps. Nuts? Popular to think so, but not so much.

      29. Please, stop reversing ‘then’ and ‘than’ in your sentences. This is becoming a very common mistake everywhere in publications and really detracts from otherwise great articles.

        • like this is one of the biggest problems we face? come on man get with the program

          • Yeah, if you can’t anything more important then that to comment on, than maybe you should spend you time over their at the grammar blogs. My head literally explodes when I read a comment like this, so irregardless of whether your a prepper or not please keep the editing comments to yourself.

            push any of your buttons flabber? : )

      30. You know that so many people cannot fathom of what is really happening in the country, let alone in the world. All they can see is what the next FREE BEE from the government is going to be.

        They have to learn TANSTAAFL (“There ain’t no such thing as a free lunch”)!

        But our government schooling system has succeeded in making people lose their common sense thinking and replace it with I don’t have to work for anything, because someone will give to me.

        WELL I’M SORRY—TANSTAAFL applies to life.


        • But Obammy in his big speeech said he wants billions more spending, money falls from the sky doesnt it?

      31. BI, once again, your analysis is right on target. things seem to be gathering more momentum now. i’m continuing my prepping right up until the last minute, whenever that will be. Redneckerson, I agree we preppers need to stay focused on prepping instead of taking any unnecessary risks with money. I put my money into things I know will keep me alive. MXLord and DPS, i’m with both of you about not selling any guns or ammo. Those 2 items are part of my “life insurance policy” and I’d be a fool to part with them. Braveheart

        • @braveheart,
          In life everything is about timing. Sold off all of my semi-auto’s/mags/ammo, last summer!. Figured at my advanced age and with our health problemd we didn’t need them. Never thought “Buy low, sell high” included guns too.

      32. Millions of Americans are suffering from a sluggish economy that will never be fixed because the people in charge of the nation are busy trying to police decades worth of corruption while covering up the truth about Obama so that no one in politics loses their job.

      33. “For if gold and silver went to zero – as silver nearly did after the great Hunt brothers purchases were shut down and gold did after the post 80′s crash – then our insurance has largely disappeared.”

        It hasn’t disappeared as much as it has went on sale. If the author really has this as a fear. He can send me any gold and silver he is worried about to me. I inherited from my grandfather a lot of silver he bought after it “crashed” (and it did not go to zero!) His investment did exactly what it was supposed to do, increase in value for his heirs. That is why I am buying nickles as fast as I possibly can. My benefit will be negligible, but my kids will reap any increase in value. Clay

      34. Okay, I figured out how the South Koreans came up with a very flawed method of determining the seismic power of the 5.1 event in North Korea last night. A kiloton of TNT is suppose to have 4.184 x 10 to the 12th power or 418,400,000,000 joules of energy. Now a 5.1 is suppose to have 2.818 x 10 to the 13th power. If you take the energy of the 5.1 and divide it into one KT of energy of TNT it comes up with 6.74 kilotons. The big problem with this is that the 2009 test was a 4.5 with the energy of 3.548 x 10 to the 12th. power and this divided into 4.178 x 10 to the 12th power it comes up with .85 kilotons, not even a kiloton using this math. Now South Korea said that the 2009 test was 2-6 kilotons. See how the math doesn’t add up. More deceit.

        The problem with this formula is that higher nuke tests don’t add up at all as I checked the days of very large nuclear tests, such as the Tasr Bomba on Oct.30, 1961 in which the Soviets tested a 57 megaton monster that by the amount of seismic energy should have by this formula registered a 8.4 or 2.511 x 10 to the 17 power. Nothing in the record of significant earthquakes of over 7.5. I also checked the Chinese test on June 17, 1974 that was 1 Megaton and there was no seismic readings of over 6.5 on that day anywhere in the world. A one megaton test would register a 7.2 or 3.98 x 10 to the 15th power of seismic energy by this flawed formula. Again no record of such seismic movement.

        This is what happens with the media, they skew numbers to reflect what they want you to see and think. Nuclear bombs are not that powerful and don’t cause the crust to move that much as they will have you think it does. To move the crust that of a 5 earthquake you need a bigger than nuke than they would have you think. One megaton nukes are very common in the Chinese, Russian, and U.S. arsenals and have been tested a lot and people have not experienced the 7.2 earthquake that this formula would have you believe. More like a 6.0 with a one megaton nuke.

        When you research numbers and they don’t jive, it just proves that either people don’t understand the numbers or the information has been altered so it doesn’t look as bad as it actually is. This is so very common with the world of finance and of course with the natural world. The main thing is to remember that you can’t trust the news for much of anything.

        • Im glad you share this, I took many college courses and got a bachelors of science and forget this stuff and its good to hear this from your side or perspective. Dorner is exchanging gun fire right now as I write this at 5pm eastern time. The news said, “there seems to be smoke comming out near the road. Duh! That is to let the cops know where they are and the general area where dorner is at.

          Be informed I don’t know the reason to downplay the kiloton load of the bomb. Why would it makes a difference if its a 10kilton or 5.5 kiloton. a nuke is a nuke in my mind. The news is so so inaccurate and pathetic anymore. I’m not that caring of the dorner case. I feel very sad he killed innocent people don’t get me wrong, but I’m more concearned with the liar in chief is going to push tonight or threathen us Americans with our guns we own or not own in his lying mind.

          Thanks again be-informed. I like hearing your methods of thinking and it “makes you think.”

          • @ clint hospo. The one reason why the misinformation is to lower the threat level that North Korea poses to the world. The government doesn’t want people to know that North Korea can take out much larger areas of a city, and more importantly that they can mount a warhead on a few missiles bound for the west coast. The more of a threat another country such as Iran or North Korea is the less control over the masses that the government has. Probably one of the best reasons is the gun control issue. The more foreign threats there are, the better reason for a well armed militia.

            Another reason for lack of clarity is that no one wants to think that North Korea has almost achieved the status of successfully testing a hydrogen bomb. It was 3 years after China first tested their a-bomb that they tested a h-bomb. The difference between a h-bomb, a thermonuclear warhead and a fission bomb atomic bomb. the common Hiroshime bomb is about 20 kilotons, actually 22. The very common 200-500 kiloton H-bomb is 10-25 times more powerful and would be 2.2-3 times more destruction and a lot more widespread fallout, 6-7 miles high for the common A-bomb and 10-11 miles high for the common H-bomb. You get up to 10 miles the spread of fallout becomes magnitudes higher.

            What bothers me the most is just how much inaccuracy of the news that we get, it is awful. Hurricane Sandy was a golden example of this, it was unbelievable for me to watch this news coverage of the storm. Even the Weather Channel did not cover Sandy well and explain what the storm’s pressure meant. Then you see the idiots all happy about the stocks being at near all time highs, yet this hardly equals what gold was and is at. It is awful to see these slanted numbers in the news. It is better to just come to sites like this to see the truth.

            It is coming at all of us for all angles, and this really set me off last night as I suddenly saw that reading on the USGS and knew immediately what just happened, then they say the thing was less than a Nagasaki explosion. It just seems like all of this, with the last Pope, the Middle East ready to ignite, the mass increase of earthquakes and volcanoes, the Sun, the total debacle of the world finances, just the overall conditions of everything that something mega is coming. Could be some black swan, but it seems like the countries of the world are ready to go at it like never seen before. We shall see.

        • The Tasr Bomb was an air drop, these are underground have NOTHING in common.

          • @ Parnoid. Much like bolide type meteor explosions that are close enough to the ground, they affect the crust in a seismic shockwave. The Tunguska explosion of 1908 was considered an air explosion, yet it set up ground shock waves across Russia. To tell the truth I do not know the exact difference between an underground explosion and the effects of an air burst on the ground, it of course must be less, but how much less I am not sure. I just know that these past nuke tests did not add up to the formula in regards to what South Korea is using.

        • Man BI, you sure are a thinker.

          Off topic but what isn’t these days. My son told me that a microwave oven is an already built and proven Faraday cage. Any of you heard this? Sounds like it would be. JOG? Anyone?

      35. No, there isn’t much poetic license in this one. Sadly, it’s about 99% true…

        Some days I’m overwhelmed. Other days, underwhelmed. Today, I’m just whelmed. Must be the diesel fumes from the truck stop.
        Barry the Fairy says he’s concentrating on job creation. And the media, low-priced whores that they are, continue to paint such a rosey picture. Some of us, unfortunately, live in the REAL world. It ain’t pretty out here. In the past 5 years, especially the last two, I’ve seen more people panhandling in the truck stops than ever before. And, with a couple million miles behind me, and a few Thousand days and nights in truck stops, I can usually spot the fakers (professional bums who don’t want to work) from the genuinely desperate folks.
        Today, there’s just as many fakers as there ever was, but what riles me is the HUGE increase in real people. The kind who have never in their lives had to ask strangers for help, but now they have no other option.
        Like the family of Mom, Dad and two grade-school-sized kids pushing an out of gas car down the freeway ramp into the truck stop. I watched ’em all the way from the ramp to the gas(not diesel) side of the store. The car wasn’t new, but neither was it an old beater. He and his woman did NOT have that ‘been livin a hard life caused by my own stupidity’ look. They looked more like they’d just left suburbia. (as it turns out, they had) He went through the truck side of the lot, most drivers telling him to take a hike. A couple gave him money.
        When he got to me he said (paraphrased) ‘We spent all we had to fix the water pump in Gallup. You can look for yourself and see it’s new. You can pay the lady inside and watch me pump it, or come put it in yourself. I don’t want money, mister, but we desperately need enough gas to get to Ft. Smith.’ He was either the world’s best actor, or he was genuinely humiliated at the prospect of begging. You can tell the ones who’ve spoken those words to strangers before, they strain to try and look pitiful. This guy was straining not to. If I told him no, he’d suck it up and go on, trying to hold the last remnants of his self esteem. But he was about to break, I could see it.

        [A voice in my head said ‘you’ve been there, okie. remember? 1984? winter in the little trailer house? out of propane and it was so cold you could see your breath inside the house? your wife huddled up in bed under a mountain of blankets, keeping your 1 yr old and the new baby from freezing til you got home from work? remember? all that snow and -18 outside? asking your boss for a personal loan to get propane? you’d only been on the job a month and hardly knew her, but you asked for money?remember?]

        I gave him a little, and he went in to the store to the fuel desk. When he came back out, he and his kids pushed the car up to the pumps. Something told me to go talk to him. I stood there while he put exactly $18.45 in the tank, and we visited. The oldest boy, about 12 yrs, squegeed the windows while he pumped the gas.
        He said he got laid off his job as a purchaser for a company in California. He was heading to Arkansas, where his brother (unemployed but his house was paid for) would put them up for a while. He was no white-collar pansy. Mid 30’s I’d guess, and physically fit. He’d done some construction work before he got his desk job. Said he put the water pump on himself, right in the Autozone parking lot.

        [the voice in my head said, ‘hey, okie. remember that night in Garden City? the napa store was just about to close? you got the alternator and put it on in the parking lot? mrs okie and the kids sitting in the car in the dark? their safety and well being completely in your hands? and they had no idea how inadequate you felt? and you prayed that a rusty pair of pliers and that cracked 7/16 end wrench would somehow work? and they did! remember? and you honestly believed the spirit of your Dad was there watching over you? saying ‘Son, don’t be afraid. you can do this.’ and you did! remember?]

        He finished pumping, thanked me and they started to leave. I asked him to spare a few minutes to talk, and he obliged.
        He said (paraphrased again) ‘I don’t know who to blame, maybe myself. We all took a pay cut in ’09. Then another in 2010. The company was trying to survive, but between the lunatics in Sacramento, and Obamacare, they were hurting. And scared. We thought about selling the house but we were underwater. So we just toughed it out. Cut the cell phones, the cable, never had any club memberships,or boats or any of that stuff. We honestly lived pretty frugally, even before.
        ‘Then, 5 months ago, the company said they were downsizing. 60 would be let go, then 60 the next week and so on. I was in the second batch of 60.

        [the voice flashed again, quickly saying ‘yep, you been there too. 1986. the radio station you worked at just went out of business. completely closed down. you were unemployed on less than 24 hrs notice. and mrs okie was home with the boys. and pregnant with the twins. you haven’t forgotten that, have you?]

        He leaned on the back of the car and continued, ‘After two months, we quit making the house payment and started looking for somewhere to go. Last month we had a big garage sale. Sold the furniture, refrigerator, everything.

        [hey, okie! remember 1989? the big garage sale when yall sold almost everything and loaded the rest in that home made trailer? and headed to South Dakota, pulling it behind that worn out Datsun? that was a hoot! then things got a little shakey once you arrived. remember?]

        The guy from California went on, ‘For 3 weeks we lived in the house after that. Slept on pallets on the floor. Ate all our meals from an ice chest. Sat on milk crates and one old chair that we couldn’t sell. I worked day labor when I could, but since I don’t speak spanish, they rarely hired me for the construction and stuff that paid over minimum.

        [hey okie! remember when you dug ditches in Corpus Cristi as a day laborer!? when was that?]

        ‘Every day I just got madder at myself for making my family live like that. How can a man look himself in the mirror when his kids are eating sandwiches out of an ice chest and sleeping on the floor? And his son is too embarassed to bring his friends home after school bacause’ …here, he sort of trailed off. I could see he was truly embarassed at his plight.
        His wife rolled the window down and called to him. He opened the trunk and got a baby diaper and passed it to her. She squirmed around in the front seat and reached into the back, changing the baby, I guess.

        [boy, that back seat diaper routine happened a few hundred times when your kids were babies, didn’t it?]

        One thing I noticed was the total absence of any litter on the dash or, from what I could see, anywhere in the car. There was absolutely NO food trash, and they hadn’t thrown any out when they pushed the car up to the pumps. Nobody in America travels cross country without accumulating some happy meal boxes…or at least a baloney wrapper. They had the car stuffed with boxes and bags of their personal belongings, some pillows and blankets, but NO food trash.
        Before he closed the trunk, I noticed a small pile of crushed aluminum cans in one corner. From the dirt on them I knew, these weren’t cans they drunk from. They’d evidently been picking them up along the road. Laying among the cans was a greasy water pump.

        [boy okie! it’s deja vu all over again! i mean the cans, not the water pump thing. you do remember picking up a few cans way back when, don’t you?]

        I did a little quick math in my head. 30 mpg in their little car would mean about 11 gallons of gas from Sayre, Okla to Ft Smith. 330 miles approximately, so, yeah 11 gallons. He’d just put in half that much.
        When he closed the trunk I said, “You won’t get to Ft Smith on 5 1/2 gallons of gas.”
        He looked me square in the eyes, ‘I know. The water pump was 80 bucks. That’s how much short we were. An elderly couple gave us 30 in…? what’s that town past Albuquerque?’
        “Moriarty,” I told him.

        [wow! talk about old home folks! that’s where you ran out of propane and almost froze that winter! this is practically a family reunion of memories! you haven’t forgot, have you?]

        ‘Yeah, Moriarty,’ he looked like he was remembering something he wished he didn’t have to. ‘First time in my life I ever begged. The first 3 truckers said no, one gave me $3 and one gave me all his pocket change. I was at the gas pump, getting ready to put in ONE gallon when the elderly couple pulled up in a church van. He just saw the look on my face, I guess, and asked if he could help. I told him what the deal was and he handed me $30. Right on the spot! We got a pint of milk for the baby and put all the rest in the tank. That, plus the gas that was still in the tank, almost filled it up. It got us to here.’
        “What are you gonna do, when you run out again around Oklahoma City?”
        ‘I don’t know. If I have to go through a truck stop parking lot again….well, look, it aint my pride. It’s just that a man shouldn’t have to do that. Not if he can work. That’s all I want. To work. And take care of my family.’

        [the voice started to say something, but didn’t. i think it fainted]

        I didn’t say anything and after a moment, he went on, ‘I talked it over with the wife. She’s agreed to let us sell her wedding band if we have to. Hopefully, I can get her another when we get to Arkansas and I get some work-‘
        I cut him off! “No! Don’t do that!” I gave him my best drill instructor talking to a recruit impersonation I could. Although, coming from a middle-aged geezer with a graying beard, it probably wasn’t that intimidating.
        I said, “Look, I’m gonna do something I never do for strangers in truck stops.

        [the hell you dont! said the voice. i ignored it. it lies]

        “I got a visa card that I only use for emergencies. Well, I’m declaring this an emergency. We’re gonna fill up your car…and get some milk… and some snacks for you and the family.”
        He protested, ‘Mister, I can’t let you do that! I don’t even know you. And I can’t pay you back. It’s just not-‘
        I pulled the drill instructor on him again, “Now you listen to me! Fill up the damned car and get a few snacks. Something to hold you over til you get to your brothers place. And don’t give me no static or I’ll whip your ass!”
        His jaw tightened at that. So I said, “OK then. I’ll pick a fight and get you arrested for whipping my ass. Either way, it’s better to just let me do it.”
        He smiled, softened and I think he even blushed as he stammered his thanks. I went into the store and had them turn on the gas pump again.
        Ten minutes later, he was shaking my hand for the 10th time. As they pulled away his wife smiled and waved. And I saw a tiny streak of wet on her cheek.
        I walked back to my truck and the voice said

        [i knew what you were going to do all along. you’re not nearly as hard-edged as you think, are you? oh, that reminds me! remember when the kids were in jr high school and yall had just moved to the farm? man! you were poor, weren’t you? and remember when you finally scraped up the money to get mrs okie’s rings out of the pawn shop for the last time? and you swore to her you’d never, ever….ever risk losing them again? remember how she beamed? and she hugged you so tight? and she had that tiny little tear in the corner of her eye? remember?]

        “Shut up!” I said to the voice as I pulled out on the interstate…

        • Love it Okie. My dad did a very similiar thing in a campground years ago. Note in the outhouse asking for help. My dad gave him a battery, a jump start and $50. I’ve never forgotten it.

          • Thank you, Kindle. My dad was the greatest man I’ve ever known. He taught me the most important lessons like your dad did for you, by his actions more than his words.

            • Yep Okie,
              One of my favoritist memories is sitting next to him at a lake in the mountains fishing. We could go hours without talking. I learned more from my Dad than anyone in this world.

              • Blessings to you, SmokinOkie for your kindness!

        • Okie this one made me cry but the saddest part is it is happening all over. We had almost the same situation on our last trip out of CA. along I40. A guy who obviously was not use to asking for money approached hubby(my man who is not prone to handing out money to anyone). Hubby said when he got in the car,”this one is different,he could be me”. Even in our small town the unemployment rate is on the rise again and more and more homeless are showing up at the soup kitchen and food banks. Close to 70% of kids in our public schools are on subsidized meals. While we continue to prep we all need to share where we can, but most of all pray for those less prepared or able to prepare right now. Thanks for those “small voice” reminders Okie.

          • Hey there F C G! yes, times are getting tougher. Mrs Okie volunteers at our church food bank and she says the number of people coming in is incredible. And many of them are former suit & tie sorts. Or blue collar hard working folks. They were always the givers, not the takers. Now, it our new normal in America, that’s changing.

            • My daughter has 7 years of college–one year from doctor’s degree– and no money for groceries the last 2 weeks. She had to use her credit card–no other choice. Things have gone up so much!

        • Okie, this brought tears to my eyes. That family will never forget your generosity and I’ll bet they pass it forward someday, when they meet someone who genuinely needs help. There’s nothing like a 99% true story with a positive ending.

          • Thanks OhioReader. I added perhaps a couple of details about his work situation and the part about the ice chest. He actually just said they cut the utilities off their last 3 weeks in the house and they were eating sandwiches every day. (plus, I’m sure the kids ate at school) I just imagined the ice chest, since I have done that, briefly, in the past.
            The full time bums, who wouldn’t work even when the economy was good, the ones I call the fakers, don’t touch me at all. I send them away with no remorse. But the real people, like these folks were, well…they sometimes break my heart.
            I can’t help them all. Can’t support them or give them a lot. But I can’t forget what’s it’s like being in their shoes. I’ve known every situation described by the [voice] above. In fact, all the events the voice mentioned are 100% true. I’m not proud of that, especially since many of those situations were my own poor planning. But I have learned from those hard, humbling times.
            Best to you Ohio. And everyone here at Mac’s place! -okie

        • Okie, you changed that mans life. Not just by getting him to his destination and giving them something to eat – but something more – a fundamental part of his character. I’ve been that poor. People helped me too. I didn’t want to take it but sucked it up, for my kids. And now, I pay it forward every chance I get. This man will too – he will never forget you.


        • Dang it Okie you done it again….cant see my screen…Ive been there…seen the tears and the thanks…thanks for having the heart to help them 🙂

        • It’s called “pay it forward”. Done it myself and know it will grow legs and travel.

          I learned this at the tender age of 18 (moons before it became a movie) when living very hand to mouth. Dropped my wallet outside the second job. Some unknown soul turned in to the manager. Thing was ~ it had all the $ I had in the world (cash – not a lot in the scheme of things), but it would have meant no rent, no food, no gas and lots of ETC added for fun and grins… life becoming much more less attractive by the minute.)

          I had a very ‘come to Jesus’ moment when the next completely depressed day I was handed my wallet including cash and a grunt – “you are a very lucky gal”.

          DH has had no such meeting and says I’m too soft and dumb for my own good. I tend to KNOW I have a blessed life for no particular good reason. Too much evidence to present, I can only say we do what we are led to do…. and it does matter. (period)

          I stand by pay it forward every chance you get… you never, never know… nor should you – it’s part of the scheme of things and might blow a fuse.

          Thanks, Okie – God chooses his messengers with discernment to cause a ripple effect – true fact. Travel with safety, friend.

          ~..~ TG

        • @Smokin Okie…..I can see you never forgot where you came from….and I say, ” But for the Grace of God go I”…You are a GOOD Guy!! take care CC

        • SmokinOkie,

          I cried while reading your post. There are many families now facing such difficult times in communities across the land.

          That family will never forget your kindness.

          Many of us have faced difficult times in our own lives.

          Thank you also for all the funny and entertaining posts you share! 🙂

          KY Mom

        • Dammit Okie!

          Just made this grown man choke up a little. I’ve been on both sides of that fence, swore never again would I be broke and destitute.

          Mercy is not weakness. And charity is harder to receive than to give. At least for those of us who are still trying to be productive members of society…

          What I’ve found anyway.

          Thanks again for the great post.

        • and that same scenario of human suffering is spread far and wide across the world…God Bless you Okie.

          We often forget that we don’t have it that bad regardless of the times when we had the same things going on…several, several in our lives also.

          Meanwhile a bunch of sub-human shit is listen to one huge piece of sub-human shit tell a nation of dumbfucks more lies. Living lavishly without remorse for others, selling the last of our liberty down the toliet.

          All laughs and smiles in dc tonight. Fuck all of them.

          Wish we could see satan’s face when we send them all back.

        • Lord, you made me cry. I love your stories!

        • That’s what the big empty mayo jar was for in our truck, all spare change went into it and we gave it out to the truly needy in the truckstops.

      36. Off topic: Heard this on the radio today. When Whitney Houston died The Evil One that lives in The White House has the flags lowered to half staff. When that SEAL sniper (Chris Kyle 190+ confirmed kills) got killed last week, nada, nothing, zip, zilch, not even an “Oh Well, sucks to be him”. Welcome to a Muslim/Marxist America.

        • word is sure spreading on that. Obama and is wife and the biggest 2 faced liars and you can see that they only care about their friends and black friends. True people that defended this country have got nothing from this admin. Its really sad and whats worse it’s making us very clearly divided country and someone is going to snap in a racial group and get out of hand. Obama will never declare martial law. IF he does we the millions will not take it and it will be one huge total lost out of control country and he canno’t afford that or to lose money in his markets that he invests or his buddies. Its all money guys. Nothing more. If it collapses there will be so many breaks in the ranks that nobody will clearly follow obamas orders and it will be chaos and controlling the masses would be what they love to say “unpresidented” sorry on spelling and how I feel.

        • Never heard that one before and had to look it up. The radio lied, as it was Governor Christie that ordered NJ flags to half mast, not Odumbo. However, you are correct that the anointed one made no mention of Chris Kyle’s killing but passed on his condolences to the Houston family. Shows once again his true colors…

        • Committing that many murders is really something to be proud of. We should all feel sorry that he got shot. O, the horror. It was so unjust.

          • E…he killed for them and their agenda…

            One day an asset to them, the next day a threat.

            Are you at the farm yet? It is your only way out.

        • Because…they are happy that he is gone.

          I’ll leave it at that…

        • Kinda hope’in a really big meteor but prefer a zombie event. Then I can use up my ammo.

      37. Bah, I stopped reading. Why pay off debt now if you can pay it later with inflated money.

        And why pay off debt if the whole system collapses. I’d rather spend more money on tangible goods then paying debt off faster. Not saying you shouldn’t service your debt.

        And can anyone say MF Global. The markets are rigged and your money can legally be used to pay off the investment houses’ mistakes.


        Save your 401 K, They are working towards confiscating them!!!!

        The writer of the article sounds like a salesperson for the stock market.

      38. this would never hsppen in the american workers party

      39. @BI
        Nevada. 5.1 just now…. Is this rare? I haven’t seen any that big there lately. Not huge deal, but interesting.

        • @ W69. Nevada earthquakes like this are more common than people realize. The western portion of the state is actually connected with the warping effect of the San Andreas and the reactions with the North American and Pacific plate. The mountain ranges there reflect this warping. Most faults there are usually not capable of anything over a 7. I have seen many of these moderate earthquakes in these areas over the decades. This could be a symptom of the North American plate stress building up though.

      40. Meanwhile, the hottest story since the make-believe Sandy Hook school shooting goes completely ignored here. It appears Christopher Dorner is dead and won’t be around to tell the world about the corrupt, trigger happy, crazy LAPD anymore.

        • Of course he is…dead men tell no tales.

          This tale is a whopper. The story will read perfectly into “their” agenda.

          • I wonder how the homeowners feel about LAPD setting their house on fire.

      41. TLA, I understand it’s your call, but NO WAY I would’ve done such if I’d been in your shoes. SmokinOkie, that story was worth its weight in gold. I’ve been there and done that myself. I don’t mind helping someone who’s REAL and will still pull his own weight when given an oppurtunity and just like you, I’ll turn away a full-time bum in a New York Minute and not think twice about it. I got burned out of a mobile home back in 1982 only 6 months after moving back to TN from FL. Fortunately, I didn’t lose much because most of my stuff was still in storage and with me working 2 jobs at the time, I had money to get into another place in only 3 weeks time. During that 3 weeks, I had a 1972 Dodge cargo van I was living in with a matress for my bed. I was borrowing other people’s restrooms for maintaining my hygiene; THAT REALLY SUCKED! But i never asked anyone for a dime; working 2 jobs, no need to and it went against my upbringing. But I survived it; one of my personal SHTFs. I’ve had others before and after and survived them as well. When the REAL SHTF finally hits, i think that’s going to be the biggest challenge for ALL OF US. Keep on preppin; i’m still doing the same. braveheart

      42. In Anti-Gun Chicago, police will no longer respond to 911 calls for: Burglary, Car theft, and a bunch of other things. Also, 12 year old girl shoots intruder… all at

      43. it’s good to see at least one investment(22lr) has gone up in value….i’m a rich man

      44. @GDawg ~ Chris Rock apologized???? Did not hear that.
        Why? For his stupid comment a few days ago?
        *goes to google to look it up*

      45. 7 3/4 tinfoil hat, I’ve been stocking up on .22lr since September. Not saying how much [OPSEC] but i’ve got enough for myself and for some bartering in the post-SHTF era.

      46. For those person’s who does not take the matters at hand very seriously and has no preparedness mindset would probably say I was quite prepared.But In my mind I have a long way to go.Money is the main cog under my wheel.As winter is my down time for work that is also my decrease in limited funds.As a slow learner I see how speculation can drive any markets Ammo is the one I am gonna put a bigger investment in.Have built two lowers from and are ordering some more next week. On Back order of course.What I am getting at is I am going to try and use extra income to buy things today that are prep related and have good 50-100% turn over.We will never be satisfied with our amount of preps…But that is a good thing!

      47. great story too

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