James Rawles Warns: “Be Prepared To Hunker Down For Months”

by | Sep 22, 2013 | Emergency Preparedness | 502 comments

urban-wasteland
(Image courtesy: Survivopedia)

As you consider the threats we face and the options available to you should the worst happen, you have no doubt played out numerous scenarios surrounding the effects of a total collapse event that would bring down the national power grid. Be it a cyber attack which DHS Secretary Napolitano says has a 100% likelihood of occurring, a super-EMP weapon being detonated in the skies of America, or a natural disaster involving a highly charged coronal mass ejection from the sun, the possibility is quite realistic.

Some have escaped major cities and headed for the hills, but considering that the majority of the U.S. population is centered in 146 of the country’s 3000 counties, chances are most of us will find ourselves in the middle of the worst that humanity has to offer.

Developing strategies that encompass everything from food preparation and water harvesting, to security and communications should be at the top of our lists. This is where highly respected author and Survival Blog founder James Rawles puts much of his focus in his most recent interview with the team at alternative news hub SGT Report.

It’s an interview you don’t want to miss, because that one little oversight in your preparedness plan may be the mistake that kills you.

Your chances of survival are fairly low if you’re in a major metropolitan area.

In a true grid down situation I recommend that you literally be prepared to hunker down for months.


(Watch at Youtube)

Among other critical preparedness topics James Rawles discusses the effects and survival strategies for a grid down collapse in high population urban centers:

For someone in an urban area who plans to hunker down and doesn’t plan to bug out with country cousins, one thing that should be at the top of everyone’s list but that’s very much overlooked is… if you’re in a situation where you have power because you have photovoltaics but your neighbors don’t, you really should concentrate on black-out curtains for your windows. You need to black out your house completely, without any light leaks so that your house will look just as black as any other on your block.

Otherwise you’re going to be targeted as the rich guy. You don’t want to become a loot-me-beacon at night. That should be a fairly high priority for you.

There’s so many things that are gonna go into it. If we’re truly in a grid-down situation you’re going to have to think in terms of not just food storage, but where you can collect rainwater or surface water, whether it’s a pond or a creek, and how you’re going to transport that water home without access to a gas engine vehicle.

You’re gonna want to be able to cook without any spices whatsoever… From an efficiency standpoint… you’re going to want to use a special insulated cooker… It’s essentially like crock-pot cooking where you bring your water to a boil, add your rice, meat, vegetables, whatever… and you’re going to enclose it in a double-insulated container. With that cooking method you have a couple of advantages. One is you don’t have cooking odors escaping and the other is you have the absolute minimum energy input.

That’s just one example of the work-arounds that you can use in an urban or suburban environment if you literally can’t trust your ravenous neighbors.

For someone who has to hunker down you’re going to have think through each of those situations, whether it’s sanitation, cooking, home security, communications… the whole works. You’re going to have to think through each of those.

Unfortunately, in an urban environment, you can do everything right but if you’re neighbors can’t adapt you’re going to end up just as dead, because… the sanitation situation is going to be horrendous. And, if people are going door-to-door kicking in the front doors of houses, eventually they’re going to get to your house. If it’s that bad, if it’s a total worst case your chances are not that good hunkering down in place.

You may beat the odds, but I would rather be somewhere else, frankly.

[Living in the city] You’re in the same situation as probably 30% or 40% of my readership, so don’t feel like you’re alone. There are a lot of people that would love to relocate, but either for financial reasons, or family obligations, or work obligations, or health considerations… you’re not alone.

A level of planning that you’ll have to make is definitely a step up than your average suburbanite. You’re going to have to think everything through. You’re going to have to shepherd your funds, and prioritize your purchasing and your training with exactitude.

All it takes is one overlooked area and you’re another statistic.

We strongly encourage you to listen to James Rawles’ interview with SGT Report in full. It has tons of ideas, tips and situations that any serious prepper needs to consider – not tomorrow, today.

There are a variety of excellent resources available to help you insulate yourself for a long-term disaster scenario no matter where you find yourself when it goes down, starting with Rawles’ preparedness guidelines outlined in his book How to Survive the End of the World as We Know It where he details tactics, techniques, and technologies for uncertain times.

We encourage you to forward this to friends and family who may not be as convinced as you are about the possibility of an emergency that wipes out our electric grid.

The fact is, the U.S. government has been preparing for exactly such a scenario, and they’ll be launching nationwide simulations later this year. They’ve been stockpiling food, water treatment supplies, firearms, ammunition, and training personnel to deal with the aftermath.

If you’re not doing the same thing, then you haven’t been paying attention – or you’ve chosen to stick your hand in the sand and pretend that it’s not really happening.

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    502 Comments

    1. Be informed

      I would say everyone should take the idea that it WILL be “at least” weeks and could be months and years and plan accordingly for just such a coming series of events.

      • wrong

        BI – At least is the key word. I’d be happy if it were only at “least a week”. That would be a great test of my abilities. In all honesty, even a week would be stressful. I expect it’s going to fall apart sooner than later. Not looking forward to it like some here. Maybe if I was a young buck again…

          • MadAtchew

            Sorry to repeat myself but:
            Comment ID: 2305822
            September 22, 2013 at 11:26 am

            As Bob Marley said, “a hungry mob is an angry mob”.

            That is part of the plan.

            Reality from a true economic standpoint, for every dollar “handed out” in the form of a food stamp, it supposedly generates $1.70 in true growth, or expansion…and that’s from the ground up.

            Too bad the government is on a borrowing spree rather than using it’s own coinage.

            There are loopholes where undeserving get the dole, like illegal immigrants and your general crackhead skallywags, but there are even more DESERVING people, like your average joe who really did get wiped out by the banksters, or your grandparents vanishing pensions, or your senile mother who bought into Fonzie’s reverse mortgage scam…some of those folks are starving without or without the $100.00/month EBT.

            Please stop demonizing all food stamp recipients, despite the fraud, which of course needs to be stopped. The money spent on food stamp programs is a drop in the bucket compared to the Militant Industrial Complex running rampant on the heels of this middle east Swahili grab for water and oil.

            Go figure…Welfare is much better than warfare.

            Nobody can work on an empty stomach, let alone think straight…don’t ya get it?! We’ll be sucking on toothpaste before long.

            Peace ya’ll, and help out your neighbors before they go on the dole, too. Shop local, grow local, be a good yokel!

            • TheGuy

              I want to believe that.

              Pie chart of US spending obligations says otherwise. It appears to be rather the reverse.

              I was very depressed when I learned this.

              • MadAtchew

                Another Al Gore / Nutty Nit-N-Na-Hoo Pie Charting Thom Thumber. Get Real!

            • John

              Every dollar in welfare removes two dollars from the economy. The give-away money is created from thin air (creating the inflation we now have, at least part of it) or taxed from productive businesses and individuals making them less productive. You have been listening to the Marxist economists lieing for the globalist bankers who have ran our government for a hundred years now.

          • Buddy

            yourmotherwaswrong: Why the thumbs down folks, I thought it was a catchy little tune. Just one more to add to my workout selection. I’d better hurry though because a massive cyber-coronal-pulse-whatever is going to wipe out all that good music if I don’t get it into a good Faraday Cage. You know the one, right next to the chicken cage with Chicken Little hiding inside because the sky is falling.

            • Swinging on a star

              Buddy,

              You obviously are in denial or you would actually take this advice seriously, especially if you have a Family to worry about. Do you really think our country is healthy and moving forward? Have you done any research regarding the increase in government dependency, the true unemployment numbers, the amount of Families that are now either homeless or on the verge of it.

              This country is dyeing and on life support but it is too late for a cure. Common sense should tell you that we are on the precipice of something quite horrific and yet you make jokes. Can you honestly say that this is just loony and has nothing to do with reality?

              The world is on fire right now, there is a stagnant stench in the air and it is getting worse by the day. My wife sees it in the grocery store, carts less than half as full as they used to be. Layoffs are increasing at an alarming rate, people are actually starting to feel the pain of reality. The price of gas, so funny when it goes down a few cents and people cheer yet when it increases you barely hear a peep, how ironic that they probably like you, accept this lie and actually buy the crap that Washington puts out.

              What do you think homeland security is getting ready for, a big fun camp out with the American citizens? Open your eyes and at the very least educate yourself with the truth, not with the pabulum that you are being spoon fed by the mass media and the corrupt dear leader.

              • durango kidd

                In a real SHTF scenario you had better be prepared to “hunker down” indefinitely. You should have food reserves for at least three years. If you do not have that volume, keep prepping.

                Spices are ESSENTIAL to good health and natural healing. They are strong antioxydents, anti-inflammatory, antibacterial, and even anti-carcegenic.

                Back up the truck for spices. 🙂

                • Muddy

                  @DK,
                  Contradicting the great Rawles?? Gutsy of you. In the podcast Rawles specifically says NOT to use spices in an urban setting as hungry neighbors may come looking for food. I happen to agree with your comment regarding using spices when cooking. Otherwise one will be eating very bland tasting food for a very long time.

                  Another contradiction he makes: at around 3:35 into the podcast he says, “things will be very difficult for people in the northern climates”. Where does he recommend people live? according to his website under the topic of retreat areas in the left hand margin,

                  “Here is my overall Retreat Potential ranking of 19 western states, which I will explain in detail:

                  1 Idaho
                  2 Montana
                  3 Oregon
                  4 Washington
                  5 Wyoming
                  6 Utah
                  7 South Dakota
                  8 North Dakota”

                  With the exception of Utah it looks pretty northern to me.

                • durango kidd

                  Muddy: I have never let someone’s reputation substitute for my good judgement. Neither should anyone else. 🙂

                  Having said that, the important spices like, garlic, ginger, cinnamon, turemic, etc, can be found in capsules as supplements, so no need to be afraid of your neighbors when cooking.

                  If you live in any of the states listed I would be more afraid of bears, because they can smell prey at eight miles out. Don’t know if they like garlic.

                  At a glance his list of states is interesting but I dismissed all of those 40 years ago when I became “aware”.

                  Washington and Oregon are marginally better off than California, only because they have fewer people. They both have volcanoes and major earthquake faults and these will erupt with the coming Earth Changes.

                  Idaho, Montana, and Wyoming are a fools paradise because these three states intersect at one of the largest super volcanoes in the world: Yellowstone; which is way overdue for an eruption. Way over due.

                  Much of North and South Dakota will be underwater, as will parts of Nebraska, and the Southern Canadian plains. Can you say, “Lake Dakota?”

                  Rawles preps for economic collapse, but real economic collapse will be initiated by war and Earth Changes. Read the Bible. The Prophets and Revelation spell it out.

                  I chose Arizona specially for that reason. Now it has the correct political environment, financial environment (gold & silver), and gun environment (Ruger Manufacturing).

                  I don’t follow Rawles. 🙂 I recommend SHTF Earth Changes for a better perspective of the End Game, then everyone should go within to discover where your Personal Creator wants you when the SHTF.

                  Be there to get there. 🙂

                • Night_Fury_77

                  Happy medium… Do not cook with the spices, heat can kill the healing properties anyhow. Add them to your dish after it’s cooked and it won’t smell as strong.

                • Night_Fury_77

                  @muddy
                  I think the states listed by rawles are the better states to live in. When he speaks of northern climates what came to mind is that the cold harsh winters without power/heating. The states are probably safer for many reasons including many people may not come here because of the weather but still harder to deal with for those of us already here.

              • Buddy

                Swinging on a star: De Nile, isn’t that a river in Egypt? I use to live in south Florida and I remember the insane housing market there before the crash. The last big development they built had a line around the block for people to get a chance, not a guarantee, to buy a home. Fights broke out just to get tickets for bidding. The reason for this was that that all the farmland had been bought and homes were literally up against Big Cyprus NP. There are still some farms that buffer the Everglades, but not much, and they would have been bought up if not for the crash. I for one am glad for the housing crash because it was caused by greed on everyone’s part, bankers and home buyers. The attitude was to pave over everything, screw nature, pollution, water depletion, and the next generations, I want my house and my profits. Most of the jobs lost were in banking, real estate, construction, and those that supported them. Well, good riddance to them all, just like the gigantic auto industry we once had. Infinite growth on a finite planet is insane thinking and has dire consequences, and we’re seeing them now. If you think by prepping that you can “ride out’ this coming ‘down-turn’, in order to bring back the old America, then you’re the one in denial, and I’m not talking about Egypt this time. I’m speaking to you this way because you responded to my somewhat childish taunt with kindness and thoughtfulness. What we are facing will be world changing, and not for the better. Prepping will make harsh downturns we face easier to handle, but it won’t be an ark were we can all disembark when it’s over and continue like things were before. When things ‘finally’ settle down, there will be no ‘reset’ button for our major industries to start up again, no reset for large-scale food production, no reset for us to go happy motoring to our favorite stores and restaurants. So it goes without saying that there’ll be no reset button for large governments either. When the dust does settle, it’ll be a very different world and I hope that your preps will give you the time needed to learn the necessary skills to live in this new, and very different, world. In all sincerity, Good Luck.

                • Swinging on a star

                  Buddy,

                  In some ways, I actually agree with you. I know that I am where I am supposed to be and none of us truly knows what is to come. Yes, we prepare the best we can for any even that may disrupt our lives, but I am personally not a hard core prepper. I do have useful skills and I continue to teach them to my children. I pray for my kids future, I have emergency provisions that may last us a couple of months but that’s it. It will be what it will be. I simply want to live and let live.

                  Thank you for your insightful post. God speed.

                • Swinging on a star

                  Yes, we prepare the best we can for any (even), I meant to write (event), should have proof read before I posted.

              • Thorin

                Excellent reply! I couldn’t have said it any better!

            • Fleendar the wise

              @Buddy:
              Dude. You really need to wake up, open your eyes and *see* what is going down in this country. If you don’t, you’re going to end up dead. The EMP/CME scenario isn’t near as likely as a good old fashioned false flag from our very own gubbrmint. Our kids in school have been being used as high value emotional targets in the effort to convince Americans to disarm. Why? Because when all of this goes down, they want to have as little armed confrontation as possible when the hostile takeover of this nation occurs.
              Take it as you see fit…

          • JD

            nice 5 finger lyrics….

          • Connor Kenway

            Nice!! Love me some 5fdp! Very fitting song for the times.

        • Paranoid

          i hope it’sonly measured in months. It’s years and decades I worry about

          • caliber

            years and decades are just going to require adapting. if you make it over 2 years, post shtf, then you should be able to handle anything.

          • c

            If the grid down situation is because of the upcoming drill/false flag event then it will be shortlived. The government wants to go into Syria so they want an emotional response from the people to allow that to happen because right now 90% of the people are dead set against another war. And then they need to fuel the war machine so the scope and or time of a grid down event must be limited. Still they could leave pockets of the grid down to continue media coverage and reinstill why they need to go to Syria ( of course it is all a fiction because we are already in Syria and our weapons and intelligence agencies have been there for year.)

        • doc

          stock up on some booze and pills,,it worked for elvis.

        • wisefool

          “Maybe if I was a young buck again…”

          easy to say that knowing what you know now. Young bucks are more easily scared or afraid. Us non-young bucks don’t feel like we have a future to lose. Even as a young buck I would say “don’t under estimate an old guy. They have a lot less to lose”. One reason I’m glad I’m not a young buck is I was lot dummer, and more afraid of life.

          Moral of this story. As a true follower of Christ, I couldn’t care less about surviving. I’ll still try of course, but you don’t truly live until you are born again. Until then you are a dead man walking anyway.

      • admin

        I agree BI.

        We were grid down for 27 days after Hurricane Ike in Houston several years back.

        To be honest, it wasn’t that big a deal for us, but I can tell you that this was not the case for our neighbors… They had no food, no clean water or method of treatment, and no gas to run their generators.

        What caught my eye the most was that a couple folks in the neighborhood had serious medical conditions and had no way of running their medical devices… They were in luck, because the damage was fairly limited and emergency personnel were still able to get them emergency generators and fuel.

        If this were a total regional or national grid collapse, or if roadways had been blocked, they’d have been in serious trouble.

        Three weeks is no big deal if you know supplies are coming, and FEMA has emergency shelters set up and operational. Plus we were in an ex-urban (almost) rural area, so generally removed from any looting or immediate threat of violence

        But when we talk millions of people all at once…. forget about it.

        It’s the end of the world as we know it within 72 hours.

        • Sookie sookie

          One of the best preparedness techniques is to actually do it. Flip your main breaker and run grid-down for a few days. You will learn a lot AND you will be 100% better off than those who consider themselves ready but have never confirmed.

          I have been unplugged from the grid for 112 days straight. I collect my own water, use solar, and walk where I need to go. This is no security test, but it sure is a great way to know your plan works in a grid-down scenario.

          • OutWest

            Sookie

            When my wife had her bakery, she got sick
            for three mos. It was all electric and we
            shut everything off during that time.

            The power company continued to “estimate”
            the monthly use for that time, and charged
            her $1800. After the explanation, the power
            company came out and read the meter on site,
            but said there was nothing they could do to
            remedy the error, pay it or be cut off.

            She had no choice, no sparky, no cookie.
            So, shut your power off at your own risk.

            • Piper Michael

              WHAT?
              What is the meter for, a potted plant?
              I would be seeing them in small claims court, with a threat to take it to a higher level if they cut me off.
              Then I would find alternate power means after making their lives miserable in the newspaper and online.
              Other people would want to know that their meters are on the walls for zero purpose.

              • RICH98

                Piper— how ya gonna get online with no electricity, dickhead?

                You’ll Do… You’ll do.

                Another one full of shit.

                You’ll be the first one ot take down a major utility single handed… haha… freakin dope.

                • Piper Michael

                  Your response is a total non sequitur.
                  Don’t often like to wallow in the mud with pigs… so I’ll leave it at that.

                • Piper Michael

                  PS Rich98+1/2.
                  I have rigged up a bicycle generator for charging up the batteries… which run an inverter.
                  Work out while generating electricity, no sun, no wind? No problem.
                  I’m not gonna say it, I won’t… I won’t…
                  The hell I won’t…
                  Eat shit and die.
                  (Don’t know what I ever did to piss in your cornflakes.)

                • braveheart

                  Rich98, although you make a valid point about not being able to access the internet with no power, don’t start showing your ass.

                • Buddy

                  Piper: I thought the phrase was “I wouldn’t piss on your teeth if your gums were on fire”? But I guess cornflakes will do.

                • XTP

                  Hey!, “dickhead”, the power was shut off at her bakery, not at home, go somewhere else and troll

                • ENFP

                  Rich98, Local libraries have computers with internet.

                • TheGuy

                  Here’s your internet.

                  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m3u99oi6nvo

                  Raspberry Pi draws 5 watts. 5. Watts. That’s it.

                  Your router and flat panel display are another matter entirely and I don’t have a good answer for that one yet. Dunno. I’ll think of something.

                  Think you can generate 5 watts? Pretty sure you can.

                  This isn’t any good at all for a TOTAL collapse as… internet? What internet?

                  But it’s not bad for an Argentina / Cyprus type deal.

                  Don’t expect this thing to exactly knock you out of your socks for speed but it should at least function.

              • tayronachan

                You would be surprised how many times going to small claims court has worked.

                • DocLRRP

                  Especially when the courts disappear.

              • Wilson

                @PM,
                You mention rigging up a bicycle generator for charging batteries. Any details or YouTube video that would help me rig one up? I’d like to know more. What you have done is a major reason I have for coming to this site. To wit, there are many creative people here with great ideas.

                • joe

                  In the 80’s I sat down and thought I was going to be rich. I made a PM generator that you could attach to the rear of a bike and it generated 24 volts.
                  The problem is that people are weak. If you were an Olympic runner you could probably generate 200 watts per hour for a 8 hour day and then would be totally beat. Most people couldn’t generate 500 watts in an entire day and the food that they would consume in huge.

              • Smiladog

                @Piper
                I was thinking the exact same thing. I would make it very expensive for them. Their crews would be working night shift and getting lot’s of overtime. haha When is comes down to it, and if they push you, what else are you supposed to do. Remember, the power companies are the elite. They have no love for us, or sense of fairness.

              • jack

                wouldn’t a sensible action be to leave power on and not use it?

            • wrong

              Power companies now install meters that they can read/manipulate from their offices.

              As a builder it’s my least part of the construction process having to talk to the 1 800 number. I always get the black woman in Detroit that doesn’t even know where northern Michigan is.

              OutWest – That doesn’t surprise me at all. Sad to hear. I’ll bet she made the best Cheese Danish ever.

              • Jim (Another Jim)

                Hey wrong, fellow northern Michigander here. Howdy

                • wrong

                  I noticed you said something once about n Mi. I know there are several of us here. Cover your tomatoes tonight!

                • Night_Fury_77

                  Grew up in MI, well till I was 11 anyhow, IA now. God I miss it. BTW how bout our Tigers!

            • snake eater

              what would happen if you had gone out and started popping transformers with your o -06,,,what a different tune that would be,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

              snake

            • Eyesopenanddisgusted

              I had a same lesson, winter of 2010 Febuary in Michigan. Single mom, laid off couldn’t pay consumers. Yep, they turn it off now in the middle of winter even with a minor child in the house.
              Luckily I heat with a wood stove. We learned a lot, it was off for 37 days. After the first 5 days, you have things down to a science. Learned real quick the many uses of big rocks, the wood stove is on the opposite end of the bedrooms and no power for fans to push heat. Big rocks on the Woodstove, wrap in towel and put a couple at the foot of the bed, they keep you really warm.
              My daughter and I had quite the time, learning things, laughing, board games by candlelight, chili cooked on the Woodstove. Hek, I even got myself a tatoo ( burn mark on my shoulder, couldn’t see the chimney pipe ) I love the battle scar. In all honesty, we had a lot of fun, and it will bring you closer than you can imagine. I think board games, cards are an important prep.

              Long live the Republic!

          • Hammerun

            Been there, done that for real. No notice either, just boom, your black! It’s a good time to work out the bugs in a system and find your short comings. A 5K gen set will manage a simple sized house. Will not run heavy/start motors. AC, Coolers, well pumps, pressure pumps. 8K or better will handle the light 220 single stuff. 8K to 11K looks to be the optimal size. Get one that is either multi fuel or natural gas. Have one that is stand by in an enclosure piped into the nat gas line out by the panel, if it is feasible security wise. I don’t go for all of the fancy auto kick in switching. I just have a 50 amp female out of the panel on a breaker. When it’s time I just fire it up, cut out the mains, and plug the genny in and walla, got juice!
            There are tons of high tech fancy stand by gen systems that do all kinds of silly have to have things. And they will LAY you down for it to! But I can tell you when it gets down to brass tacks, “you will settle for a lot less”. Anything is better than nothing, and nothing is a fucking death sentence, bank on it!

            • Mick

              One comment regarding connecting a generator to your home during a power outage. It is worth it to pay an electrician to come out and install a generator transfer switch. This prevents your generator from back-feeding into the grid and shocking/killing a utility worker.

              Otherwise, totally agree with your post. 🙂

              • Hammerun

                Actually, my electrician did pull this. Turning OFF the mains so you are severed from the grid and when the power is restored it doesn’t slam thru the panel sending 200+ amps back into your gen set, thusly at that point making a nice roaring fire out of it. I agree separating yourself from the main power grid is primary.

              • Prepared Pastor

                I bought a big generator twenty years ago and had a transfer switch installed so I could power my whole house. Over the years I’ve weaned us down to where a $150 inverter will keep the fridge cold and rechargeables topped off for about a month before I need to refill the Jeep from stored fuel. Less fuel, maintenance free, and it will even run the microwave, satellite TV, or power tools if we want to splurge.

                “We are not rich by what we possess but by what we can do without.” – Immanuel Kant

                • Night_Fury_77

                  Always wanted a gen for my preps…until I thought about it. In a “situation” bound to get stolen anyhow, and if you try to protect it people will start to wonder what else you got they don’t.

              • erv

                Agreed. It is easy to install the transfer switch. One advantage is you do not have to remember to turn off the main, just flip the switches on the transfer box for the circuits you want to run off the generator. This way you can keep a circuit on the main so you know when the power from the electric company is back on. It also makes it easy to test your system without disrupting all of your circuits in your house.

              • snake eater

                Mick
                nope I would just go to my meter and flip main there good to go

                snake

            • Smiladog

              At our hidey-hole at 9,000ft in the CO Rockies I have a 45kw Generac with a 350ci Chevy that runs on propane. I am like you, I sold all of the Auto-run accessories.

              I am trying to figure out how I want to hook it to the cabin’s electrical panel. I already have a 30amp 220volt outlet coming off of the panel right now, below it. So, do you think it would work just fine changing out the 30amp breaker to a 50amp and just plugging in the gen to that would be just fine??? and of course switching off the 100amp main coming in to it.

              I suppose I should check into a multi-fuel carburetor for it. At that altitude and because of the remoteness up there everyone has 300-400++ propane tanks connected to their cabins. So, in a shtf scenario there would be plenty of fuel up there for awhile, assuming that most people would not make it to their cabins in a crunch.

              Unfortunately, I know where most of the peoples main residence is, and none of them prepare (as in, fuel to even get to their hidey-holes), and I am afraid to say they will not ever make it to their cabins. We keep at a minimum of 150-200 gals of gas at anytime in fuel transfer tanks, with a max storage of around 300gals just to make sure that we get there. Shsss, don’t tell

          • slingshot

            Sookie.

            Want to ask you what things you missed in the beginning and found they were not all that important.
            Can you say a lot of it is a mind game? Did you develop a routine. Go to bed early and get up before the sun.

            • Sookie sookie

              It was certainly an adjustment. I’ve been writing a thread about it here: http://www.goldismoney2.com/showthread.php?48459-Lessons-from-a-personal-SHTF-experience

              I will be continuing the thread until I am back in a house, or in a year… whichever comes first. I would like to winter in this RV as that would be a full test of my plan. We see -26C in winter (-15F). I won’t be using the propane heat; it will be an endurance test for sure, but true readiness isn’t always easy. Better off testing while I have a fall-back position than waiting for grid-down and learning the hard/dead way.

              • slingshot

                Sookie.

                Good stuff and Man you are doing it. Yeah! No Bullshit there. I carve small items from wood for my, mind time.

                Thanks.

              • DollarstoDonuts

                Bookmarked and can’t wait to read! Thanks for sharing!

          • RICH98

            Hey SOOKIE SOOKIE…change your name to IMFULLOFSHIT-

            unplugged from the grid for 112 days and on the internet. Neat fuckin trick.

            • Piper Michael

              I’m here, online, in test mode… just to make a fool out of you…

              on bicycle system, generator, inverter and batteries… (an old car generator, reworked UPS and car batteries).

              Only problem I see is batteries… need to get some dry with acid in the jar. Put ’em on the shelf for future use…

              • tayronachan

                A couple of solar panels, charge controller, batteries and inverter can keep minor items charged, with power to spare.

                • Piper Michael

                  I have solar panels, they suck… if I had to rely on them, my freezers would defrost. We go weeks at a time with no sun…
                  That’s why I had to have an ‘alternative’ to the alternative…
                  Wind is even dicier than the sun.
                  So, a bicycle generator works until I can get something else going. Which might be a wood powered turbine, or something unheard of…
                  We shall see…

              • The Old Coach

                Good plan to use a UPS – the “inverters” that most places sell make such dirty power that computers won’t run on it. I use an old APC 850 that I got on-line for about 40 bucks, sans battery. (The battery dies after a few years, and many people think the whole thing is dead and give it away cheap. Their ignorance is your gain.)

                Gather up all the “dead” laptop batteries you can find, especially older ones. They contain useful Li-Ion cells, and usually you get at least some good ones. The failure mode in those things is the power-management circuit, not the cells. They take a special charge protocol, which can be managed by buying a Li-Ion charger meant for radio control airplanes and cars. Nice thing about them is that they have a very slow self-discharge rate, so they’re good to have around for backup devices. Mostly I use them in LED emergency lighting. One cell is just the right voltage for white LEDs. I’ve also soldered up one pack capable of running my laptop for eight hours straight in power-save mode. The sat-modem and land-line phones run off the APC UPS, wired to a tired but still useful truck battery in the cellar. Cost me $15, which was the “core charge” they wanted when I bought a new one for the truck. I use a http://batteryminders.com/ charger-desulphator to maintain them as long as the grid is up. It really will rejuvenate tired lead-acid batteries somewhat, and mine has been plugged-in for five or six years now without a glitch. Yeah, I know, auto batteries ain’t deep-cycle, but for the price they do very well.

                One thing some people I’ve talked to forget is heat. “Oh, I’ve got gas”, they say. Yeah, the stove works, and the water heater, but I remind them that the controls and the circulation pump (or blower) in their furnace are electric. Most residential Gas furnaces only need 500-700 watts to run, but getting power to them takes planning.

                • Brum

                  Old Coach, thanks for the great info. Do you have a website or a blog online where I can read up on some more of your electronics knowledge? Thanks, Brum

                • Prepared Pastor

                  While modern gas ovens will shut down without power, the burners will light with a match and provide between 5k and 12k BTU safely if adjusted to where the flame is blue with no orange tips. NEVER use this method if you are alone or anyone is asleep.

                  I spent $79 (on sale) @ Northern Tool for dual fuel heater that automatically takes over on natural if the power cuts off and can be switched to gas grill canisters if natural gas is interrupted. It has an oxygen sensor that shuts it down if necessary, but in four winters it has only happened once when it needed cleaning.

                  It is not uncommon here to have running generators stolen right off a porch so be sure to secure it with at least a motorcycle chain lock. I chained mine to a porch post at the retreat in 2010 and it’s still there. Here in town we use an inverter to cool the fridge down twice a day while topping off rechargeables via the cigarette lighter. The doors are locked on the car and no one pays any attention to the Jeep idling in the driveway.

            • Archivist

              There are countless wireless access points and countless ways to charge the batteries in a laptop, netbook, or pad.

              We’re gonna have to tell your mama that you’re typing bad words on the internet.

              • Archivist

                This was to the now devalued Rich98. Maybe Rich0 by the end of the year.

                • Night_Fury_77

                  Hopefully rich98’s mother heeded the wise words of Bob Barker about spaying and neutering pets…other wise pray for any offspring he might have.

            • braveheart

              Rich98, another troll stirring up trouble. You’re the one who is full of it.

            • snake eater

              rich
              98 ever heard of battery power for a computer????????????????????

              snake

          • Twisted

            Just got back from my Elk hunt,tent camping style. No electric,cold food,no shower or stall in the great outdoors. Thought a lot about whats to come. My son tried many of his “survival skills” to see which ones work. None of it is not as easy as you think. Now back at home, the shower is nice and hot food. Yeah!!

            • Mountain Trekker

              Twisted, Great post. It amazes me how many people seem to think how great it would be to bug out to the wilderness to hide out or just ride out the storm. It ain’t gonna happen. I live in the mountains and am living a life long dream, I spend more time either hunting, trekking or just playing survivalman than probably 99% of the people on this blog. I have an old horse trailer that I park in the mountains and use for a camper from time to time. I start bear hunting with a bow the 1st of Aug. and hunt elk and deer through the end of Oct. and believe me you get mighty cold and hungry out there playing around, and it sure is nice to be able to come home to a nice warm house and a hot shower, and to be able to stock up with supplies and more ice for the cooler when you get ready to start your next outting. Anywho when the SHTF my advice is, plan on bugging in not out. Anyone hunting in Northwest Wy. this fall just post where and maybe we can meet up. Trekker Out.

              • Judith Vardeleon

                You sound like a very practical person. Could you take in 8 people if we could work for our keep?One is a doctor, one a nurse and 2 small kids. I’m not joking. I live in St. Louis and I fear for my family. I want to get prepared but my husband said we should leave this in God’s hands. god is whispering to me that it’s okay to be prepared, but of course He is still in the drivers seat. I’m happy for you for your determination to be ready.

                • clark smith

                  Judith,
                  having lived in mo including st Louis until last year we lived in Columbia we were there for 5 years my wife grew up and lived I the same house for 30 years 2 years ago we saw the decline in the schools and the subdivision in general we packed up and moved to Texas just in tax savings alone it was equal to an $10.00 an hour raise for us we moved to a small town that my family mostly cousins live in the population here with us is now 300 people we are 40 miles north of Abilene Tx. 90% of the roads have a speed limit at 75 you can buy a lot in town for $250 and then with another 500 dollars clean it off dig a cesspool and install water lines and build a storm celler we also have the ability if needed to seal the town with LARGE limestone blocks we have a river its 200 yards from my house for fishing and we can filter it for drinking the schools here have an exlempary rating with most classes have a 15 or less child to teacher ratio we also have an abundant supply of wild hogs and pigs and also deer we would GLADLY WELCOME new people to our town and ones with skills such as yours are highly desirable there is plenty of work at the hospitals in the towns around us
                  we also have only one law regarding livestock in town and that is no hogs or pigs in the city limits at my house we have chickens goats ducks and have no problams we do not have a police force and rarely do we ever see a sheriff or state trooper and the biggest crime is kids stealing beer out of peoples coolers
                  With my wife being a city girl all her life she found she likes it far better down here at night you hear frogs and crickets and almost no traffic when things turn bad we will all help each other and we have people who have many skills so we really can set anything out that can come down the road and we will prosper on top of that you can reach me at [email protected] .com if you would like to know more

                • Larry

                  Hi Ms.Vardeleon:
                  I have been “floating the idea” of offering to a small group of interested, and serious people, a form of “do-it-yourself
                  sanctuary. I’m over 70, but in fairly good health, and come from a family of long-lived individuals. My wife and I live on a 5 acre piece of land, in western Montana. We have a 5-bedroom home, with a fireplace, and a lot of “preps” for whatever this situation may turn into. My idea goes sort of as follows:
                  If we agree to “take in” about four healthy and fairly young men, and their families, Who are reasonably well able to contribute to the communal wellbeing, I would want the ones who choose to take part, to provide themselves with suitable arms and equipment, and provide such supplies (food, Medical etc) sufficient to last at least a year. I can’t afford to feed or supply anyone who cannot, or will not do so himself. While it may be possible to work at a trade here, the wages are low, compared to what you may be used to back east, and if the SHTF actually occurs, none of us may be able to earn a living, for a long time. Your medical training is a definite plus!. If you might be interested in more info, please drop me a line.

                • Mountain Trekker

                  Judith if I lived in St Louis I would also be fearful for my family, as it always ranks right at the top for murders. But I suspect many if not most take place in East St. Louis. Not to make this a racial issue but I know because I ran trains into St. Louis for years, and one of the following commenters to your post, Clark Smith also made a good move by leaving Columbia Mo. I lived very close to Columbia and although it is a relatively small city of 100,000 crime is running rampant there due to black gangs coming out of both K.C. and St.Louis. Don’t have these problems in Wyoming. Trekker Out.

          • doc

            i was readin one of the emp stories, then wandered over to the store- well the lights went out – i’m an imaginative sort and liked to freak myself out..i’d be toast in no time in phoenix areas..good thing i watched some Jericho and Waling Dead episodes huh? i gotta go re-watch thunderdome now..lottsa luck..dont take a wrong turn in Albequirke

        • Be informed

          @ Mac. Houston is far enough south that you could have a very strong category 5 hurricane hit the area, Wilma strength when it was the stongest. The only thing that would slow down a super powerful hurricane where the wind shear was nil and the water warm enough would be the shallower water. I have estimated under the correct conditions you could get a 175 mph storm with 35 foot storm surge. Houston is a place that if hit with such a storm would destroy the energy sector in this country. There is an unbelievable about of petrochemicals and refining done there. Houston is also a huge terrorist target because the energy and economic importance to the whole country.

          • The Old Coach

            Think Galveston, the year of 1900.

        • 41MagMan

          “What caught my eye the most was that a couple folks in the neighborhood had serious medical conditions and had no way of running their medical devices…”

          Wow… and this in a place where solar energy works really well. More people should have a small solar installation that will run some small things, like medical equipment or a small fridge for their insulin and other necessities.

          • The Old Coach

            Yupper – I’m now on insulin myself, and keep a “dorm fridge” handy for just that reason. Also several gallons of water frozen in the main fridge to keep things cold for a day or three. I grew up in hurricane country – can you tell?

        • Mark

          Mac,
          We had relatives from Baytown and elsewhere sheltering in place at my house, because it was thought to be the safest place to be. Several things: a couple of them ran out of cigarettes and were quite cranky ( I did also wonder about those who are strongly addicted to drugs and alcohol; what were the social dynamics where they were holed up?). There was no Internet, TV, cell phone, or POTS lines, or street lights. Big trees downed everywhere. Some roads were impassable. Some couldn’t leave the driveway because it was blocked with a tree. One fell on my roof and busted a beam. Afterward, people tried to go to stores, and even convenience stores lacked many items, the electronic inventory and checkout gear was inoperable, not many places were willing to sell on a cash basis, recording sales on paper. People who had chain saws were much sought after. Entire trees were cut up and placed on the curb as if for the regular garbagemen, but there were special pickups for wood trash. Data centers and hospitals had diesel generators to last a few days, but no more. They got priority from CenterPoint, and that’s one reason residential areas stayed dark so long.

          • Aeneid

            Mark,Right on with the tobacco problem. I secured a couple of pounds of finely cut pipe tobacco and cigarette rolling papers several months ago. I do not smoke, but figured in the first few weeks this would be worth it’s weight in something should SHTF. Really scary part; The tobacco store people pegged me as soon as I walked in as prior military; and proceeded to tell me about 2 other miltary types who had been in just days earlier…doing the same as me. They indicated they were being trained just before return stateside in crowd control, etc… You get the drift..good luck!

        • sleepy time usa

          they will have a place to go for safety, the sheeple who are ”lucky enough” will make their way to a fema camp. …they will find the camps are worse than out in crazyville usa

      • OutWest

        People that were born and raised in the cities are
        pretty much a captive audience to the lifestyle of
        urban living.

        As much as I have tried to steer the folks I know
        in these megalopolis settings to pursue a simpler,
        safer way of living, they don’t seem to be able or
        willing to let go of the fingertip convenience that
        they enjoy.

        Like a school of fish, they perceive a false sense
        of security in numbers, not realizing that those
        very numbers of the masses will be their undoing
        when the walls come tumbling down.
        I can only offer my prayers to them.

        • NC joe

          The population will not allow al to “their lives. There is just not enough room for all to do that.

        • wildman

          Outwest you are exactly right on this one. Plus all those nicey- nice people in nyc who are scared of firearms. They will be the first to lose whatever it is they got. Then just watch the circus start. meanwhile im gonna be throwin steaks on the grill, havin a beer, feedin the girls just like i do every day. no matter what happens things have got to be done. AHHH today is a good day for a shot of single malt and a piece of blackberry pie. wildman out

          • OutWest

            Wildman

            It may be just my imagination, but it seems to me
            that there is a large segment of the population
            that has never known sheer, butt puckering panic
            on a scale that borders pure terror.

            If one has never been in a situation this intense,
            I could see where people could cop a complacent
            attitude about anything a prepper/survivalist
            might have to say, or the sites we adhere to.

            Who’s afraid of the hot stove if they have never
            been burnt by it?

          • sixpack

            It won’t be so funny, when some NYC idiot waits in line for hours for that bottle of water and an MRE, then some thug comes and robs them at gunpoint for it.

            • snake eater

              Six pack
              man it will only be a fake weapon because they cannot have any guns nothing to fear right????”?”””

              snake

              • sixpack

                Of course…we all KNOW that only the weapons in the hands of law-abiding citizens are dangerous—(sarcasm off)

        • wheedle

          http://www.grandpappyinfo/hbasics1.htm Mac, JWR, and many more have been warning the country for years now. This could all go down literally any day now.

      • Proftel

        72 hours: FEMA’s response time.

        48 hours: response time National Guard.

        24 hours: response time of Defense site.

        06 hours: response time of ballistic missiles.

        I always have this in my mind in order to escape the urban area, my place of refuge is 140 km from where I live.

        • J McKean

          The response time of ballistic missiles is nearly instantaneous. From word “go” to impact you have less than 45 minutes for an ICBM launched from the other side of the world. Subs have to calibrate their gyros before firing because their location is variable. However, they can launch from the coast of their target, resulting in very short flight times.

          A former USAF missileer.

          • Jeff

            If I was one of the bad guys, I’d park my sub right off the both coasts and in the gulf and wait for the right time. Then I’d have my sleeper agents create a distraction. Then launch to create an EMP. And the the fun will begin.

        • sixpack

          Response time for neighborhood thugs: ALMOST IMMEDIATELY.

      • RICH98

        Rawles is about as credible as Alex Jones.

        They should team up.

        A broken clock is right twice a day.

        Rawles is a broken record like Celente and the rest of the Fear Mongers.

        Remember people……….FEAR SELLS>

        True grid down, you can kiss your ass goodbye wherever you are.

        Unless of course, You are Bravehart.

        • Satori

          Mac

          the dog has peed on the carpet AGAIN !

          • braveheart

            Satori, you ain’t just whistlin’ Dixie about that. that’s one of the few things trolls know how to do.

          • CWinOR

            Thanks Sartori- I needed that laugh!

        • ready down under

          It may not happen in what time I have left, probably about 30 years – but then again it might. All civilisations crash and burn. If it does HTF I’d give 10 bricks of 22’s and my second most accurate rifle (I have plenty of spares!!) to see the “OOOhhh sheeeeeet” stunned look on the faces of trolls like you! Whats with dribblers like you anyway? Not hurting you are we? So stick a sock in it!!

        • U-know-who

          Rich 99……………

          Hey baby, at this stage….its all about “equipment”!!!!

          …I remember, you have ‘world-class hooters’!!!!

          ***********************************************************

          Use your assets…& make it (them) count if it gets ugly!!!

          ********************************************************

          ……..all the best to you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

          HONEST…!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

        • MadAtchew

          Rich-Tard97 is on a TROLL ROLL today. Implode into dust Richtard…

        • braveheart

          Rich98, go f#$% yourself! I and the rest of the good people here have more credibility than you can imagine. you’re just a f#$%ing troll. Trolls never have any credibility. go find your brother rich99 and go f#$% yourself!

          • DollarstoDonuts

            Hey BH, I just gotta say this. I used to really respect what you have to say. Lately, not so much. Your defense of the people here is admirable, but couldn’t you do it without the profanity? Better yet, just ignore them. You guys keep saying ignore the trolls but you never do!

        • UncleJoe

          @ RICH98

          “True grid down, you can kiss your ass goodbye wherever you are.”

          Really?????

          People lived for thousands of years without the grid. If it came down to that, they would learn to do it again. Of course some of us think it may be prudent to acquire that knowledge BEFORE it should become necessary.

          • snake eater

            rich 98

            Really??????????????????????really??????????????? funny I haven’t been on the grid for hell you don’t need to know that and I take insulin twice a day

            snake

          • RICH98

            Lived OFF grid for thousands of years, because there was no fucking ON grid dickhead.
            A regular einstein YOU are.

            • braveheart

              Rich98, stop showing your ass before I put my foot in it.

        • J Gibbs, PhD

          What a loser! I’ve lived through a few grid down times brought on by winter ice storms, but due to living on a rural farm, we just kept the wood stove going as usual. Cooking, boiling water, warmth etc was just transferred to the stove box top, and the camp stoves and lanterns added to the value. We always had a 6-12 month food supply on hand, as we canned from the garden, kept lots of frozen game and fish, and had a pantry the size of a small walk-in closet. Other supplies were always held in volume, as this was the way I was raised via rural parents who did not see electricity until in late 40’s to early 50’s.

          Americans have become sooo spoiled and ignorant of the millennium’s previous lessons.

      • arco

        I don’t know what its going to be,but my bet is a meltdown of the financial system something like what has happened in Greece. But whatever it is that HTF, I’ve gearing my preps towards being self-sufficient for three years.

        • ready down under

          A financial meltdown and the depression that follows will make 1929/32 look like a fart in a fan factory. It is an absolute certainty too – but it will keep being kicked down the road until the road stops at the edge of the abyss, after all Bo Bo Obama and his previous and, possibly, any subsequent puppets dont want it to happen on their watch – wouldnt be good for their place in history would it?

          Pandemic or WW3 will be equally devastating but will require different approaches to prepping. EMP? Dunno, maybe. Natural disasters will be more or less localised, no matter how devastating, like a 10.0 on the San Andreas fault or a cyclone in our North, and will be overcome eventually and life outside ground zero wont change a whole lot as there is plenty of infrastructure in the rest of our countries and around the world to take up the slack.

          In Aussie we dont have earthquakes to worry about and what cyclones we have are limited to our coastal North where populations are sparse. Our danger is going down in sympathy with the US in a depression, being caught up in WW3 and we sure as hell wont avoid the effects of a pandemic.

          Aussie

          • The Old Coach

            When Helicopter Ben’s term is up, the little o has to appoint as successor. Larry Summers was talked about a lot, but he turned it down. Reckon he doesn’t want to be in the wheelhouse when the ship hits the rocks.

      • U-know-who

        B.I…

        With all due respect per your abundant intellectual prowess & solid proclivity for accurate seismic predictions….(kudos, btw!!!)

        …I would recommend you research/look deeper into something expounded/posited by Mr. Durango Kidd…eons ago….that being…:

        —THE MOTHER SHIPTON PROPHECIES—

        ——————————————————–

        Good luck to you!

        • U-know-who

          …..hey DK…..

          NO NAMES, BRO!!!!!!!!!!!!

          “YOU” know who I am….

          “YOU”…were right!!!

          “I” was wrong, albeit, a very small percentage of the time!

          *********************************************************

          …funny, how things/events/truth eventually transpires beyond the media level…or so its said…if one has the courage to…..LOOK DEEPER DOWN THE RABBIT-HOLE!!!!!

          *********************************************************…thanks & kudos for the debates!

          I OWE YOU ONE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

      • John W.

        Anyone who thinks they are going to survive years of grid down and total breakdown is delusional. Maybe one out of a thousand who are even somewhat prepared will survive. You better have an Amish friend that will adopt you.

        • REB

          I know a lot of amish…aint too many of them gonna make it either…Im in better shape than most of them…

          • The Old Coach

            I dunno about that. I live in an area with quite a few Amish and Mennonite families. I think they’ll do fine, as long as they don’t get rolled by the urban element. They do own hunting guns, but as far as personal defense goes they’re pacifists. That is their one weak point.

            • ENFP

              Re Amish and Mennonites being pacifists, you who aren’t need to defend them because they have the skills and knowledge to rebuild your area without electricity.

              • Smokey

                You know it. Farmers are going to be worth a perimeter.

            • REB

              I reckon it matters where you are…I know that Amish and Mennonites are different in different areas…I know some who will make it…some that wont…I wasnt intending a blanket statement but was responding to the idea in a previous post that having an amish person adopt you would somehow be your ticket to survival…it may well be but Id say people will do better to be better than they are…look and learn from the amish and Mennonites and any similar folks but take the time to learn/teach yourself things thatll work for you in your world on your level,thats all… 🙂

          • figment

            agreed

      • JD

        if the wheels fall off then carry the ones you can, if you have no skill to contribute, then you better find someone more simpathetic than me. when it all falls down, that is when we can rebuild, here is to new beginings, and the recovery.

      • Anonymous

        This is the single most advanced, most civilized, most developed, richest, most militarily powerful country on earth. That’s a fact, jack. And now the cat is out of the bag in regard to the extent of surveillance that has been established, and well established, to keep track of what is going on. Historically speaking, surveillance benefits primarily the rich and powerful, so that they stay rich and powerful. Like it or not, that’s the way it is and the way it always works, short of full scale and bloody revolution, which I don’t think will happen in this country.

        And, bottom line is, you don’t want full scale bloody revolution, i.e. civil war. You don’t if you know anything substantive about what happens in a full scale civil war. Nobody wins and everybody is severely harmed in one way or another…no one comes out of it unscathed.

        I really can’t see this nation going the way of all of the imagined scenarios put out by various doomsayers. The only thing I see collapsing is the individual lives and well being of those who have spent every last dime, and even gone into debt, to buy up supplies for a situation that in all likelihood won’t happen.

        Granted, there are far more people on the financial edge now, but that is primarily due to there being simply far more people now, many of whom were born into situations where the parents had no business having kids.

        I think what is more plausible to occur is a continually widening gap between the rich and the poor, with far more people slipping into the poor cateogry than into the rich category. The rich will stay rich and probably get richer. They are not dumb or foolish or irresponsible people. Poor people, on the other hand, tend to be dumb, foolish and irresponsible. And people who become poor do so by being dumb, foolish and irresponsible.

        Be smart, savvy, and responsible: work hard, be honest and honorable, make your word “as good as gold,” respect and put your faith in God, be faithful to your family and teach your children the eternal values, look for the beauty in life, appreciate your loved ones, and remember that money is only a tool…if you use it the correct way, it will help you but if you use it improperly, it will hurt you.

        Have what you need for an emergency typical of the area in which you live. If you live in an area prone to forest fire, plan accordingly; if in an area prone to tornadoes, plan accordingly; if in an area prone to hurricanes, plan accordingly; etc. But I find advice to stock up for years at a time to be excessive and somewhat defiant of God. God has the final say in who lives, who dies, and when.

        • Night_Fury_77

          Anonymous let me tell you something about this poor person. I am not dumb, lazy, foolish, or irresponsible. To label people as such based on economic condition…is well ignorant to say the least. After all I can tell your an an a$$hole and I’m definitely not fooled by your talk of God. If you were truly a Christian you would know better.

      • Kathleen O'Meal

        We have felt strongly to include our neighbors and communities in preparing to take a stand, shelter in, and self sustain for an indefinite time. We are learning everything we can as fast as we can that would support human life.

        I have lived for over 2 years without shopping for food. I eat very very well, and self sustain. It really becomes a habit worth developing. The money I have saved has helped pay my way through going to school. I grow my own grains and dried beans using horses and snathes/scythes to harvest. Its pretty easy really to grow fish at home and feed them on what you can produce, even if you have little land. I grow year round in a zone 5-6. So can you!

        Paying tithing in a big way, that is, knowing tithing, has helped me become prepared. I help my neighbors regularly who are out of work.

        • durango kidd

          Kathleen: Will you be my neighbor? 🙂

    2. king krazy

      When the SHTF I don’t plan on hunkering down. I plan on doing a little “funnin”

      • jim in Va.

        King Krazy…Your funnin will end at my front door or somebodys. do so at your risk.

        • Out2Sea

          Sekco lived through a grid down situation, and has written about what happens in the cities and to the peckerheads that think they can go out ‘funning”. They don’t last long. http://shtfschool.com/

        • king krazy

          Lighten up, I’m well into old age. What am I hunkering down for? Hunker down if you want to but I plan on fighting to the death against enemies of the USC. That’s what I meant by “funnin”.

      • Piper Michael

        My nephew too, has a prep plan… by going out and stealing YOUR preps… he has been forming a ‘possee’.

        I told him to come to my house first… then I will do society a service and eradicate him and his possee.
        (A bunch of untrained thugs, wanna be Rambos… this old vet has a surprise or two in store for them.)

        • NC joe

          Sounds like you might be the Rambo wannabee. Your obvious over-confidence is a real killer, too. Sheer nubers will overcome your tricks.

          • braveheart

            ncjoe, f#$% you! If you want to try something stupid, you life span will be significantly reduced.

            • ready down under

              Exactly BH, a gang of young punks will feed their bravery with numbers and maybe some “dutch courage” (booze) but when a determined defender starts taking them down, with the home ground advantage of an intimate knowledge of the battleground, they’ll be running like rabbits with empty bladders and gravy runnin’ down their legs ……

              • tayronachan

                @ready down under, agreed.

              • braveheart

                Howdy, Aussie. These young f#$%ers would be shocked at what us “old geezers” can still do. I know damned well I’ve still got some fight left in me.

              • Justin Case

                Young punks will stiffen up real fast after one firefight.

                Was reading up on the Taylor/Sutton old west feud. After the first few gunslinger duels, they wised up and went for bushwhacking. The solitary guy with the home ground advantage thinks he’s in charge of the situation, steps out of his house for a stretch, and next thing – he’s cut off, outnumbered and outgunned. End of story.

                • RICH98

                  Yeah JUST IN CASE………those HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS “young punks” who fought urban combat in Iraq, and in the MOUNTAINS of Afghanistan will just freeze up and cry when they meet you and BRAVEHART…. ANd the MILLIONS of young Gang Members who would cut your throat as soon as look at you….
                  You guys are MUCH tougher than they are!!!

                  LOLLOLOLOLO HAHAHAHAHAHA

                  I think you made me wet myself.

          • SWFL

            What is a “nuber”?

            • The Old Coach

              A liberal with skidmarks on their underwear.

          • Piper Michael

            Ah You again…
            I think you don’t know me well enough to make that statement… otherwise you would know you’re talking out your ass because your mouth knows better…

            You wanna come up against an old vietnam vet…?
            Come on. You won’t find me, or see me, or even know I’m there, until the ground captures your feet, or you suddenly feel pain where you shouldn’t, and all I have to do, is clean up the mess…
            A booby army is best…

            • Piper Michael

              PS JOEinNC,
              And if you live and escape, it won’t be for long, because the rotten feces on the tips of the punjis sticks, will ensure you don’t live long…

              • braveheart

                Howdy, PM. ncjoe doesn’t want to try me, either. When I lived in Miami and surviving through hurricanes there, I had some close calls with looters. In those days, my only weapon was a S&W model 19 .357. That was what stood between me and nonpreppers. Of course I do have better ‘ventilation’ equipment these days.

                • Mojo

                  You must mean your large mouth.

                • braveheart

                  Mojo, you’re the one with a stupid mouth, so just dry up and blow away.

              • Night breaker

                You can learn a lot from the Viet Vets the saw and lived some serious shit and survived it .
                Most of my instructors post boot camp were vets of this era we learned a lot from them in Recon School and later in Scout Sniper School. My hats are off to them I am still here in one piece because of those lessons and I am eternally grateful to have been schooled by these individuals.

                FOR THOSE OF WHO HAVE GONE IN HARMS WAY LIFE HAS A SPECIAL FLAVOR THE PROTECTED WILL NEVER KNOW

                OOHRA

                Semper Fi 8541

                USMC 1977-1993

            • Archivist

              “A booby army”? That was my laugh for the day. “Booby trap” didn’t even cross my mind.

            • RICH98

              PIPER MICHAEL- YOUNG sandbox vet trumps old worn out, burned out, Nam Vet.

              • braveheart

                Rich98. try to mess with the veterans in my family and you’ll be singing a different song.

          • Sgt. Dale

            NC,
            I’m not Rambo, But you try to screw with my family or my group you will pray for Rambo!!!

            • braveheart

              Howdy, Sgt. Dale. ncjoe is a troll from way back when. I don’t think he could fight his way through a wet paper bag.

              • ready down under

                The halfwit trolls here amuse me sometimes – I’m wondering just how they expect to survive if it all goes belly up and they cant line up and be taken care of in the manner to which they have become accustomed and believe they are entitled. After the reality sinks in and they get desperately hungry they’ll have to be some tough guys bitch – just think of that Joe/Rich98 when some really bad dude grabs you by the hair and tells you he wants to play. That is if they dont just kill you and take your kid sister, wife, girlfriend or mother (or in your case probably your boyfriend).

                Aussie

                • Night_Fury_77

                  I agree ready down under…though you should change your name rich98 might need it for his street corner sign when he gets hungry.

          • Smokey

            Hey, Joe, can you spell ‘attrition’?

            Go ahead and build your little posse, it won’t last long.

            If you lead from behind, you may last the longest.

        • 41MagMan

          Kick ass, Piper Pappy. Lots of kids think that they are hot stuff until they run into old age and treachery. 😉

          • Piper Michael

            41MagMan,
            Going toe to toe with youngins is a fools battle… as you said; treachery and GUILE. When the SHTF, we go immediately into The Plan… layered defenses, man traps, tanglefoot, leg manglers, foot shredders, jingle wires, homemade claymores, and the coup de grace; a camouflaged and armored OP 50 ft up in the trees with zip line heading back 100 yds into the woods for a quick exit…

            “The battle always won, is the battle not fought.”
            -Sun Tzu

            Fail to plan, and you plan to fail.
            I pray, The Plan never has to happen, but that doesn’t stop the planning.

            • Dr e

              Hey Michael
              Gues you are up and running
              How have u been?
              Email me if you’d like
              Glad to see you are going strong
              E

              • Piper Michael

                Doc E?
                ITS GOOD TO HEAR FROM YOU!
                I have lost touch with so many, but yes, we are ‘running’, as fast as we can…
                Will try to look you up…
                Later!

                • SmokinOkie

                  Carry on, Piper! Odds are, at least a few of us will make it to the other side. As for ncjoe- guess he never heard of force multipliers….

            • braveheart

              41MagMan, these kids attack their victims in mobs. That’s how they fight. they don’t know how to deal with anyone one-on-one. in my mind, shooting them is THE way to deal with them. It will come to that in any post-SHTF scenario.

        • Canadian Vet

          Just be wary. What they lack in training they’ll make up for in enthusiasm, itchy trigger fingers, testosterone and aggression. As they say, quantity has a quality of its own.

          And to use another well-worn saying, professionals are predictable, amateurs are dangerous. I think NC Joe has made that point although maybe not most tactfully. Your nephew and his bunch will be very dangerous in the immedite and even more so when they start taking a liking to the raider lifestyle. And if they have half a brain amongst them or are incredibly lucky, they will start getting good at it and going around conventional defences.

          So I would agree that getting them out of the picture early would be a good idea but be sure to be ready with larger numbers and prepared grounds. And by that I would mean range cards, designated kill-zones and some ways to canalize their movement. And while asking for other people with rifles to back you up might run against your grain, you will need the added weight of fire, even should you have a machinegun tucked away somewhere if only to engage other point targets.

          • Smokey

            Yep, rather than think of your house as the Alamo, think of your neighborhood or valley as what to defend. Get 30, 50, or a 200-man units armed and trained and build a set of battle plans based on your terrain and entry points.

            If the gangs have to walk in two miles, under observation and harassing fire, they are not going to want to get to where the goodies are nearly as much as they will want to go somewhere else to play.

        • sixpack

          Piper Michael: Comment ID: 2307269

          That’s how we keep family matters in the family. You clean your own house. Thanks, I’d do the same if I was in your shoes.

          • Piper Michael

            Thanks sixpack,
            Not too many understand. But yeah…agreed. In fact, I’m pretty sure he’ll come here first, because he knows what I got, and he probably thinks I’m bluffing about shooting his sorry ass… He was a good kid… once. We’ll see if he finds his roots, or loses his mind. Either way, I’ll know the moment he arrives in my space.

            Canadian Vet.
            There is only one road… in and out. It will be blocked very soon after SHTF with downed trees. Anybody coming down the road will be considered The Enemy. I am NOT alone.
            WE have a very tight community.

            • Legion7

              Was just down at the ole gun shop a few days ago. I was jawing with the sales guy who at one point informed my friend and I that he doesn’t worry about prepping because he’s got his .45, and will just take what he needs. (He has no idea we’re all prepping) I’ve seen him shoot, and he sucks, but he’s really tacti-cool, open carry all the way. He’ll be the best BLACKHAWK!/KIMBER/Tactical Pants and rappel belt wearing corpse on the street!

              Some people just don’t get it…

              • ready down under

                And the donor of a nice 45 and some extra ammo when he tries to take down what he thought was an easy to loot old vet or switched on prepper and doesnt hear the shot that killed him.

                Aussie

                • REB

                  RDU…sorry didn’t see your post before I fired mine off…youre correct!

              • Jeff

                I don’t think that guy does. So he thinks, he is justing to take what he needs when he needs it? There is a word for that in english: stealing. Threating others at the same with a weapon is not how you win friends and influence people (in a positive way). He is going to be taken out in one of two ways. One is at a distance (rifle) or very up close and personal (knife).
                I’m sure he does look tacti-cool. BFD. And with his open carry, all he is doing is drawing attention to himself. I like the idea of being so grey that nobody sees you or knows what you have on you.

              • REB

                Sounds like youll be coming into possession of a nice .45 and rig when he comes around… 🙂

            • Canadian Vet

              Without knowing what your ground looks like I couldn’t really give my best assessment. However, I would strongly suggest setting up some prepared sentry positions all around. There are 360 degrees of arc around your community and people with bad intentions and half a brain aren’t going to kindly walk down a road you have turned into a kill zone.

              And that leads me to something else. There will be people who genuinely will not mean any harm to you and yours who will approach that road and try to make contact. Might I suggest a policy of careful contact with strangers instead of outright hostility? This is another thing prepared and concealed sentry posts could be very good for, observing newcomers and reporting back to a central location via something like an old Army surplus field phone.

              • old guy

                Those genuine folks had better learn to read and obey the No trespassing signs and not climb over the fence. The best policy is DTA Don’t Trust Anyone.

                • Canadian Vet

                  I never said to welcome all comers with open arms. I advise extreme caution. You can let people know you mean business without engaging at first sight and while still talking to them.

                  As such, taking time to ascertain their intentions can lead you to figuring out who they are. Perhaps the guy with family in tow approaching your roadblock could have a skillet your community could use, even if its just one more warm body for the physically intensive labour so your “specialists” have more time to perform what tasks require their unique skills instead of ferrying water, chopping wood or any of the other infinite number of things they need doing but don’t require anything more that a heartbeat and a strong back.

                  And on the other hand these strangers are hostile, you have an opportunity to have drawn them into a kill-zone and engage them in your turf and on your terms, from prepared and reinforced fighting positions.

              • Piper Michael

                CV,
                Yup, we agree. The OP’s will have a policy of engagement, unless, there is a funny look to them or they have obvious hostile intent.
                But, if they make it down the road without us knowing who they are or why they’re here, they’re the enemy.

                As one old vet to another, we appreciate your enlightened posts…

                • Canadian Vet

                  Not that old, my fiend. Just enough snow on my boots and field time to know what I’m doing. The extent of my leadership experience is at the section (squad) level and I’m not sure I’d be able to manage, say, a platoon as effectively but the basics remain the same.

                  So that leads me to recommending some form of standardized training and pairing folks with applicable experience with the rank beginners at first, or even to keep a few of your really experienced people off the line and as a reaction force at first so in the early days they can focus in bringing everybody up to speed instead of pulling several times their weight making up for the inexperienced crowd. Gotta keep as many people fit to fight as possible instead of dog tired, right? And once training is compete, these experienced people will have flexed enough leadership muscle to be able to effectively be, say, watch commanders/duty officers so the guy at the top and his immediate command staff, for lack of better terms, can actually get full nights worth of sleep once in a while.

      • End-Times.

        King lunatic. Your funnin around will lead you to a 12 gauge up your rear end. Or even worse,to the gates of Hell.

        • John W.

          Even worse have to screw someones really ugly wife that looks like Janet reno.

      • ready down under

        A gutful of 00 buck will stop your “funnin” ……

        • Government Guy

          00 buck covers handgun. . .
          sniper rifle cover 00 buck. . .
          It’s like rock, paper scissors. I don’t know about Austrailia, but here in the states preppers using their home computer have already been mapped for redistribution.

      • PO'd Patriot

        And within a short period of time, Billy-Bob will be wearing your bathrobe and slippers and your wife and kids will be callin’ him daddy and Hon.

      • MadAtchew

        I bought lime just for the sick “funnin'” purps like you. C’mon and git your free sprinkle of lime anytime queen kooky. Wondering out loud, what kind of sprouts are you going to make in the Spring?

    3. Satori

      ANOTHER voice of warning for those near the Cascadia fault

      Oregonians warned to prepare for the ‘big one’

      http://www.activistpost.com/2013/09/oregonians-warned-to-prepare-for-big-one.html

      “Rizzo said that there’s a 37% chance of the big one happening in the next 50 years, within the lifetime of many of those at the meeting.
      A major earthquake would cripple transportation on Interstate 5 as bridges and overpasses collapse from two to four minutes of ground shaking, possible very severe, with stressful aftershocks for weeks. “It’s going to shake here,” she said. “Single-family homes will bounce off their foundations. Landslides will cause transportation between I-5 and (Highway) 101 on the coast to be cut off for three to five years.” A big quake will cause liquefaction, in which the ground, if saturated with water, will “turn to pudding,” causing hardware, such as sewer systems, septic lines and gas tanks, to rise up out of the earth. Lines from Washington state gasoline refineries cross 15 rivers, leaving them vulnerable to quake tremors, she says. Most of these were built in the mid-20th century, with no thought to making them quake-resistant, she says, adding that they would be offline for at least six months. Electrical power would be down from one to three months until transformers and the electrical grid get going again, she says.”

      • king krazy

        37% chance in 50 years? I’d bet on those odds. 😉 When is the New Madrid gonna go?

        • Archivist

          Hopefully when you’re standing at the fault with one foot on each side. Make a wish.

          • Ghostrighter

            I don’t care what anyone says, that’s F%@#ing Funny!

      • Government Guy

        Now that would be one Pissed Off Granny!

    4. Satori

      and if Mother Nature doesn’t get us

      some government will

      Britain Considered Putting Troops on the Streets in 2008 Financial Crisis; Well, it’s Worse Now

      http://www.activistpost.com/2013/09/uk-considered-putting-troops-on-streets.html

      “According to excerpts taken from his book, ex-Prime Minister Gordon Brown feared anarchy during the 2008 crisis. According to the book he said:
      We’d have to think: do we have curfews, do we put the Army on the streets, how do we get order back?
      If the banks are shutting their doors, and the cash points aren’t working, and people go to Tesco and their cards aren’t being accepted, the whole thing will just explode.
      If you can’t buy food or petrol or medicine for your kids, people will just start breaking the windows and helping themselves.
      And as soon as people see that on TV, that’s the end, because everyone will think that’s OK now, that’s just what we all have to do. It’ll be anarchy. That’s what could happen tomorrow”

      • yental

        Congress critters in America were also threatened with martial law in this country if “they” did not pass the “stimulus, QE, TARP, etc. immediately.

    5. Dick

      Sadly this is what prepping is about.
      Survival isn’t necessarily for the fittest but the best prepared and most flexible.
      Still hoping it will not be needed.
      Hope for the best, prepare for the worst!

      CATI

      • slingshot

        Dick.

        The word “Flexible” is hardly used in the prepper terms.

        • sixpack

          I don’t know about that, slingshot. Isn’t being prepared to bug in or bug out being “flexible”? Isn’t being prepared for almost anything, be it a tsunami, a tornado, food shortage, home invaders, neighborhood thugs, a flood, chemical/bioweapons attack, considered being “flexible”? What about the ability to sprint off the line at a moment’s notice of trouble?

          How about being prepared to stretch out tarps to gather water? How about being able to hunt, gather, fish or scavenge in an emergency, isn’t having diverse methods to survive, at the very heart of preparedness?

          Maybe the flexibility to create and use alternate power if the grid goes down and, the flexibility to use even more alternate sources if necessary?

          I submit that “flexibility” IS THE VERY HEART OF PREPAREDNESS AND PREPPING.

          • braveheart

            Howdy, sixpack. I couldn’t have said it better. One of the first things I learned in prepping when mrs braveheart was alive was the need for flexibility. No prepper in his or her right mind ever prepares for just one particular thing. YOU HAVE TO PREPARE FOR ANYTHING AND EVERYTHING. If you don’t, you may survive one type of event only to get nailed by another type of event. Flexibility helps you to survive.

        • Prepared Pastor

          I know a lot of preppers who are inflexible. Many have that “cold dead hand” bumper sticker. Flexible people will hand over a couple guns if necessary then retrieve more from the nearest cache. Flexible people don’t just have a bug-out-bag, but at least one destination with permission to be there and at least three routes. Flexible people buy precious metals once lower layers of preparedness are covered in case they become refugees.

          Syrian refugees with tents aren’t living in tent camps. I saw the same thing at the local FEMA camp after Katrina. Those who could afford to moved on with their lives while the rest were stuck in a college dorm with fences around it.

          • sixpack

            That “cold dead hand” bumper sticker doesn’t mean Nice post, PP—“from my cold, dead hands” doesn’t mean inflexibility, it means they’re not backing down, giving up not one more inch.

            “Stand your ground” doesn’t mean inflexible either, it means ENOUGH IS ENOUGH, I have a right to protect myself, if you insist on continuing past my line in the sand.

            It’s really not that hard to see the difference between an inability to adapt and an unwillingness to give up one’s personal values. Apparently, you DO see the difference.

            • sixpack

              Please disregard the initial “That “cold dead hand” bumper sticker doesn’t mean” I don’t know what happened there when it posted.

      • 41MagMan

        Agreed, Dick. Prepping is “Oh, s**t!” insurance. It’s there IF we need it and most of us are hoping that we won’t.

    6. Watchdog

      You can never prep enough. The dire the situation becomes the nervous you get about how to keep up, defend yourself, grow your own food or even contemplating the bail out scenario. One NOAA physicist who is a neighbor of mine tells me that we have at least a 35% chance of a Carrington like CME in the very near future. Remember, the USAF is shutting down the space defense as of October 1 as well. No Fucking Money to protect the country but BIG O enjoys a $60 million vacation for a week someplace.

      I strongly urge people and other preppers to not only think of themselves, but their families and surrounding communities and how they will be affected. I recently launched a group in my community HOA to see if anyone responds to the call. It turns out that most wanted to talk but were afraid of some trolls and shills being around. It takes a little courage to awake the masses, but at least you have done your part, and when they come knocking, “All you have to say is I warned you but you would not listen.”

      Keep prepping folks like there is no tomorrow. The SHTF will be in Syria real soon again as this is the calm before the storm. When it does, oil will hit $400 a barrel almost over night. and supplies will be limited all around.

      God bless.

      Watchdog.

      • 41MagMan

        “It takes a little courage to awake the masses, but at least you have done your part, and when they come knocking, “All you have to say is I warned you but you would not listen.””

        That statement will have more impact if you are holding a shotgun at the time you make it. It will make a statement too, just by being immediately available for use.

    7. Poor Boy

      Months? I’m prepared to hunker down for years.

    8. Hammerun

      Does anybody have any idea what happens to solar panels exposed to the skies when an EMP goes off? Do they work after they have been fried?

      • Smattering

        I would like a reasoned answer to this too. I want to begin putting a solar power system in place but it would be easier on my physche if I knew with some certainty that it would not get fried.

        • Hammerun

          It would suck to make the investment and only to find out it goes POOF in the shit when you really need it and the dude that sold it to you went POOF too! I hate using this, LOLOL!

        • ChickenLittle

          Depends on the intensity of an EMP blast. Most likely you would fry the panels, the charge controller, the inverter and anything plugged in… It all would channel the burst of power along the wire so fast that it would go through most Power Backups or surge protectors.

          The Carrington event was a solar storm that wouldn’t have been strong enough to burn out things that weren’t powered. It may not have burned out all electronics on cars depending on whether they were on or not.

          • Sookie sookie

            Solar panels contain one or more Zener diodes to prevent backflow between cell sets or between panels. In an EMP, it is probable those diodes would fry. Power would not flow UNTIL the diodes were replaced or bypassed. However, the panels would be likely still generate power after such a repair. They may provide fewer amps, but you could count on the correct voltage. Most manufacturers say the Zener diodes cannot be user serviced, but I have learned otherwise. They’re pretty easy to identify and bypass; the problem is reseating the back of the panel after service. Good idea to have some outdoor silicone on hand. Pine tree epoxy could work in a pinch. Also note: some panels have their Zener diodes in a junction box on their reverse side; you may have easy access.

            I think the big risk is in the controller frying. You would most certainly want a spare, unless you build a system that can direct charge (NIFE battery chemistry can work without a charge controller; you need a cut-off switch between the panels and battery bank, plus a multimeter to check charge levels.

            Damage from an EMP would be far greater than that from a CME, or so I have read.

            • Joe

              I would not use Zener diodes in any solar setup. A reverse-biased Zener across a solar panel would smoke as soon as the sun hit it, unless it was incredibly high wattage, in which case it would simply short out the associated panel.

              Also, fried bypass diodes that went open-circuit would not even be apparent if the rest of the rig were still functional, unless cells were shaded, and then there might be damage or hot-spots. If they failed as a short, they’d take the attached panel down until they became open-circuit from localized heating.

              Blocking diodes that went open circuit would take whatever array they were connected to down. If they somehow failed shorted the array might continue to work unless the current was too large, and then they’d open like a fuse.

              Are you perhaps thinking of Schottky diodes, rather than Zener?

              Probably worth mentioning, there are bypass diodes, and blocking diodes. Bypass diodes, usually Schottky, with very low drop across, prevent reverse-biasing shaded cells when the other cells in the circuit are getting power.

              Blocking diodes, usually silicon rectifier type, and higher volts and amps, block the whole array from reverse bias at night by preventing reverse current flow. Ideally they don’t waste much power when the system is operating normally.

          • Joe

            ChickenLittle says:

            “It may not have burned out all electronics on cars depending on whether they were on or not.”

            I don’t see the mechanism for a Carrington-event style CME to wreck, say, a Toyota HJ45 Landcruiser. In fact, I’d trust old points/coils/condenser type auto ignitions even in an EMP situation. I would NOT trust anything with either electronic ignition or electronic fuel-injection, or both, in EMP. By contrast, in a CME, even unprotected cars might not be ruined.

            Can you describe the mechanism by which a CME (not an EMP) damages diesels, pre 80’s cars, and modern cars (all electrically different).

            • ChickenLittle

              It’s all about the amount of voltage they need to operate. The older circuits used tubes which used much higher voltages to operate. Today’s modern efficient circuits only need a thousandth (or less) of voltage. By using less, they are more subject to spikes that can quickly fry a piece of foil versus a copper wire.

              If your car has electronic ignition versus a coil, then you are safer, not necessarily immune from EMP. I still think you would need an extra voltage regulator, coil, and maybe generator/alternator…

              I bought a pallet of 25 solar panels (using only 12), double the controllers, and inverters. I keep spares in an old aluminum shipping crate. Need to buy spare 12 volt water pump, too. Panels and shipping were cheaper by the pallet.

              • ChickenLittle

                Uh oh… The second paragraph should read “If you have a coil ignition versus an electronic one, then you are safer, not necessarily immune to EMP.” Older cars will fare better than newer ones.

                • Joe

                  I’m willing to bet that no CME would damage either a coil/condenser/points style ignition nor a diesel with an engine-driven fuel-pump and injector system (nonelectronic).

                  I say this because I can see no mechanism for the properties of a CME to develop harmful voltages inside a car’s ignition system. Automotive sparks are on the order of tens of kilovolts, and particles from the sun, whatever the density, are not going to charge up an object inside a metal box (the car) to that voltage.

                  Also, regarding more modern ignitions, there hasn’t been a CME yet that has damaged in-circuit transistors (unless they were connected to something long and metal). EMP is a different kettle of fish entirely, of course.

        • Joe

          It would only be certain to get fried in an EMP event affecting your area. And then only if the panels you were planning on relying on were unprotected, i.e. not in a solid (no holes) metal box.

          For me the most important reserve faraday-protected stuff to keep safe is test equipment.

          You won’t be able to get back up qickly if your multimeter (and maybe your scope) is fried, even if you’ve EMP protected other critical components.

          Vintage scopes and meters make sense in this context, they aren’t nearly as sensitive to EMP if they don’t contain any transistors.

      • kynase

        Panels would be fried, unless they are in some sort of faraday cage. We have solar right now, but if an EMP hits, I’m not counting on them working.

        • jerrytbg

          That’s why I’m a BIG advocate for many small panels that can be put in a cage…

      • Joe

        As of this point in time, there are no “EMP only” weapons in existence that are fieldable.

        Yes, exploding a nuke in the ionosphere will make an EMP, but the effects are unpredictable. Space weather may accidentally cause the destruction of the launching nation-state as well, assuming any country actually wants to destroy the electronic infrastructure of a country in its entirety. (Would China choose to destroy its biggest customer?) I can’t think of any country which would sensibly have that agenda. If you want to beat a country in war, you want to knock out his ability to fight, and an EMP would not do that. Nuclear retaliation is just about the only system which is designed specifically to be EMP-resistant. An EMP attack would only harm the citizens.

        To the best knowledge of the planners, a large-scale EMP event could only be caused by a nuke in the ionosphere.

        Anybody with “better” info than that, feel free to correct.

        Many bloggers seem to conflate EMP events with Coronal Mass Ejections. They are extremely different in effects. Protecting from one won’t save you from the other.

        Having said that, the solution would be to keep a 100% backup system, all electronic parts, everything with a transistor in it, buried in a metal box in the ground.

        A metal-lidded dumpster would be a good choice. The other option is to keep the backup system in an underground bunker lined with a good-conducting metal.

        • braveheart

          Joe, I’m convinced the grid will go down one way or another. before I learned computers in 2005, I used to get a lot of my information from shortwave radio. We’ll most likely lose the internet, so I keep 2 shortwave sets with single-sideband [SSB] capability in a metal trash can from Home Depot with some other electronics and I have it insulated with bubble-wrap from U-Haul. Shortwave will most likely be the only source for info from anywhere in a post-SHTF scenario. Radio Shack has several portable sets for under $200. http://www.universal-radio.com carries a lot more portable and table radios. Prices will vary. The SSB is a MUST for listening to ham radio operators and military broadcasts. I think very few, if any, AM or FM stations will be on the air in post-SHTF.

          • Facebook Page

            I disagree about the am stations. But the question will be who controls them . Local good or bs rescuer s.

          • Joe

            Good plan.

            Same here. Two military and two civilian HF/VHF/UHF capable sets in a “safe place”.

            Not strongly expecting straight nuke-triggered EMP events, but the internet will definitely disappear in a disaster, whether by plan or accident.

        • patientmomma

          Joe Says, “(Would China choose to destroy its biggest customer?)” Yes, China would do it to USA. China wants our land; only the land, not the Americans.
          http://rense.com/general85/China'sPlanToConquer.htm
          Not sure of the source of this document, as it was forwarded to me. But, it does follow the recent Chinese pattern of docs on China Free Press.

          Ever heard of a Free Trade Zone? Our leadership is allowing this. http://www.naturalnews.com/034259_farmland_America.html

          • braveheart

            Patientmomma, I’ve read that document. It’s living proof of how evil and treacherous the Chicoms are.

          • The Old Coach

            Ain’t China we have to worry about, it’s the rag-heads who are still mentally in the 9th century. They would happily destroy every grid in the world, just to bring civilization down to a level they can cope with.

          • Joe

            Can you identify the last time in history that China grabbed a significant amount of land from a sovereign country?

            Worth quietly noting here that a very large chunk of China is virtually uninhabited. It’s more barren and desolate than the most remote parts of Australia or the US SouthWest.

          • Ugly

            patientmomma.

            Sad, but true. China and others have bought a lot of land in the USA, much of it is farmland. They buy it under ‘investment group’ names.

          • Joe

            And how would China accomplish this without risk of nuclear retaliation from the US? The Chinese Military and Government are nothing if not risk-averse.

            EMP will do nothing to stop any country’s nuclear retaliation ability. The whole system is, by design, EMP hard, as during a nuclear war there will be lots of it.

            Most estimates put the US/Chinese nuclear weapons ratio at at least 20 to to 1.

            If they did it, it would take some cajones, is all I can think of.

            So, patientmomma, how would they accomplish such an attack?

      • Joe

        Honestly, a disaster where a hostile EMP goes off would have to be a very thin sliver of the prepper’s probability chart.

        Catastrophic CME events as well, but having said that DO plan for the grid to be down for WHATEVER reason. That’d be a big slice of the probability pie-chart!

          • Joe

            Yes, the right solar megastorm would knock down any power-grid that didn’t have the correct anti-saturation hardware installed on its transformers. A huge DC bias induced in long power lines would definitely wreck substations.

            HVDC series-capacitors and monitoring hardware for switching them in would protect from this, but they are quite expensive.

            But the good news is that a competently installed household totally isolatable off-grid solar rig would be unaffected by this, as it has no long (kilometers long) wires. And, the propagation of such CMEs is slow, compared to the speed of EMP, so there’d be time to prepare, if there was any warning. And this is why HF radios are useful.

      • Red Leader

        Hammerun, I have read that it fries the blocking diode in the solar panels. This diode prevents backflow from the batteries to the panels at night. You could store diodes in an EMP proof box or put a wire jumper on the across the diodes and switch the panels off at night.

    9. fiftyfiver

      Be surviving now and beat the rush. If you have been following this scenario for a few years now and are not at your BOL already… you may have your hand stuck in the sand.

    10. Hammerun

      Have you ever noticed around a stories like this one that is usually accompanied or sponsored with offers of gold/silver, freeze dried foods, tools, survival books, med supplies?
      The people that are going to have the worst time is this techno smart phone generation. They’re going to be so lost in the beginning, trying to function without a device while trying to find out how to eat and survive.

      • kynase

        Thank God for old fashioned books all about survival!

        • The Old Coach

          My most valuable book is a thick encyclopedia of modern technology – written in 1889. All kinds of stuff we’ve completely forgotten about.

          • Smokey

            Go to the used bookstores and pick up the old texts on steam engines, radio theory, chemistry, and such.

            Picked up a older Encyclopedia Britannica last year, full set, great condition, for $160.

          • smattering

            @ Old coach: What is the title of the book you reference and the author?

      • Ugly

        What type of advertising would expect on a prepper website?

        ‘bird seed for your pet canary’….

        • Hammerun

          Primarily what I was thinking, I follow two silver sites. They are always yelping about the coming price of gold and silver and their shortages. And what kind of dire straights you’ll be in if you have none. You scroll down the page and guess what? The guy that is running the site is selling silver. Kind of makes you wonder what he is up to? You kind of have to take all of the gloom and doom with a little intellect and a lot of caution.

      • 41MagMan

        “The people that are going to have the worst time is this techno smart phone generation. ”

        Agreed. At a guess, I would say that 80+ percent of them are not going to make it.

    11. Barn Cat

      The tough part is that you’re going to have to go outside everyday with a poo bucket and find a place to dump it. In the winter, you’ll leave footprints. Not much you can do about that. Even at 3:00 in the morning, you’ll be pretty visible with snow on the ground. You want to go far enough away so that the smell doesn’t become overpowering at home but the further you go the more dangerous it is. I’ll be going east of my house about a quarter mile. Far enough away that we won’t smell it from our house.

      • slingshot

        You have no out house experience I see.

        • slingshot

          Google
          Latrine waste disposal. Pick the army site.

          • Ghostrighter

            Let me just say that if you crap outside in the middle of winter it will freeze and there won’t be any smell. Thirteen years ago I bought some land and built a small house for me and the wife. No plumbing or electric for the whole first year living there. I would of built an outhouse right away but the ground was already frozen solid. So we took a metal 55 gallon drum cut the top and bottom off and then cut it in half so that we had two pieces roughly 18 inches high, we took one and set it on top of the ground and put two 2×4’s across it, spread apart away’s and sat on them and did our business. We would pick up the half barrel and move it when it got filled about 6 inches off the ground and just leave the waste sitting there to dry out. In the winter time it would freeze pretty quickly and in the summer time it would dry after 2 or 3 days. When spring came we would go back with a shovel and scoop everything up from winter the time and burned it like we did in the summer every couple of weeks. AND YES dried shit burns. There are some places in this world where people pick up (collect) dried cow pies to burn in the winter to keep warm. I want to say parts of the Ukraine do that, can’t remember for sure. One last note, If you ever use this method let me warn you that in the winter time if the 2×4’s are covered with ice and you sit down, they will slide apart and your butt will drop down in the barrel and your hands and feet will be on the ground trying to hold your butt up from touching the pile of crap inside and you will be stuck this way until you YELL HELP and your husband hears you and comes to bail you ass out of shit (of course not until he takes a picture and quits laughing hard enough to help).

            To my wife, I’m sorry but I had to tell everyone cause thirteen years later it’s still funnier than shit!

            • Legion7

              I live on a hill. I figure a 6″ pipe through the wall and wesson oil should deposit the ‘doins 60 feet down to the highway. It will effectively keep the lookie-loos away as well. TORPEDO ‘LOS!

              • Smokey

                Better to plan on proper disposal of your waste.

                Cholera is still lethal.

                It gets really difficult to grow enough food, barter with the neighbors, and defend your area when half of you are dead from cholera, and the other half sick.

            • DollarstoDonuts

              LoLoLOllloL! Reminds me of my Granny’s out house and when my brother locked me in, then started rocking it! Good one!

        • Archivist

          I have a two-seater in the back yard built in 1931. It’s a little drafty right now, but I have some 1931 siding to repair it with. There’s still some 1960s toilet paper in it.

          For those who don’t know, a two-seater outhouse has an extra small hole for children to sit over.

          • Babycatcher55

            My former mother in laws home church has a four-seater, in separate stalls! We took pictures, because we knew no one would believe us! The church is 200 years old, and is on Rocky soil in the Blue Ridge Mountains. It is still used, and there is a men’s outhouse as well. You wash your hands with water from a 5 gallon Coleman jug,and dry on paper towels. Very neat and tidy. Fresh paint every year. The soil doesn’t perk there, hence the outhouses.

        • Barn Cat

          My yard is all rock. Just a couple of inches below the surface.

          • Ghostrighter

            “My yard is all rock. Just a couple of inches below the surface.”

            So is mine here in the Ozarks.
            I have a round one inch across six feet long heavy steel breaker bar that I use to bust thru the rocks. If we have a heavy rain I wait about eight hours after it’s done raining and start digging. Otherwise I dig as much as I can then fill hole with water and come back the next day and dig as much as I can and repeat the process as many times as necessary until I get down as far as I want.

          • Smokey

            Barn Cat, you’d better start digging now, while you still have the food for energy. Just fill it in with loose material and wait for the need to arise.

            Those who do not properly dispose of their waste are going to kill themselves and their neighbors with disease.

      • CrabbeNebulae

        Shitting in a bucket inside your home is like shitting in your nest. JFC, go outside and take a shit so you don’t stink up your nest and have to clean up the mess!!! Dig a hole behind your house in the bushes and build a frame over it. Take a shit in the hole and sprinkle some lime on it. Lime can be bought from the feed store co-op in 50# bags. Everyone should keep a couple hundred pounds of lime stored for emergencies. Use it in the garden. Use it in your shit hole and use it on the looters that come to your house and fail their mission.

        • Barn Cat

          Sure, if I build that I just let the neighborhood know I’m a live.

        • Mark

          Crabbe,
          This is how they take a shit in most places in Ukraina. Sometimes the cleaning lady comes in while you are taking a shit to empty the basket with the toilet paper in it.
          Shitting that way makes your thighs strong so you can dance the Gopak dance.

          • CrabbeNebulae

            @Mark. I used a chamber pot when I was a kid back in the 1950’s. I will not do that again unless I’m under absolute extreme extenuating circumstances like I’m trapped somewhere and am forced to crap in the corner or it’s 40 below zero in a raging blizzard. Most people will never be trapped somewhere to be forced to crap in their pants or in the corner, even in a SHTF scenario and the temperature where I live seldom gets below 20 above and that’s not cold enough to make me stink and soil up my nest. I will opt for a hole in the ground with a small structure around it for privacy. It doesn’t have to be big and can be covered with camouflage netting if you are afraid of violating your OPSEC. A sprinkling of lime will eliminate the smell and a little sawdust, wood chips, or bagasse will render it compostable. There are places all over the world where people crap in their nest and I’ve been to several of them during my life but I will not subscribe to that way of living even after SHTF. Stock up on several 50# bags of lime. It has many practical uses besides using in the garden or covering up shit and dead bodies. Thanks anyway. Just saying

      • PO'd Patriot

        That’s what a chamber pot is for. Nobody in their right mind is going to trudge through snow at 6 degrees outside, in the dark to visit the John.

        • Archivist

          I got a chamber pot also. Also known as a slop jar, combinet, or thunder mug.

          The house I’m in came with everything!

    12. cindy

      add packs of feral dogs roaming about,like in Detroit,keep the shotgun handy

      • Anonymous

        Dont forget the feral government dependents that will be roaming

        • Piper Michael

          I LIKE THAT… there’s the FUNDAMENTAL TRANSFORMATION
          for ya…

          FEDERAL
          Take out the D and E;
          Democracy and
          Employment
          and what do you get?

          FERAL

          Good one Anon.

      • Kulafarmer

        Got to learn how to make Asocena, a traditional Philipino dish.

        • wrong

          bark bark grrrrrrr……. Who’s a good boy?

          • OutWest

            wrong

            You lost me on that one — but it sounds good

            • wrong

              OutWest

              Asocena is dog meat. I was just stating what I thought about cooking my dog. He’s too fuzzy anyway. 🙂

              wrong

      • 41MagMan

        It won’t be long before feral dog meat is on the menu. Not long after that, there will be VERY few feral dogs.

        • sixpack

          Poodle for lunch, labrador for dinner, and chihuahua for a bedtime snack…yum yum.

          • Smokey

            Poodles n’ Noodles, German Shepard Pie, and Dog’s Breakfast….yum.

            • wrong

              Labradoodles n’ Noodles. Only at the more exclusive restaurants.

              • sixpack

                That’s just…”wrong”…LOL.

      • Mark

        At least there will be plenty of pork in Detroit for everybody to enjoy.

    13. Anthony

      City people know they are city people. Country people may feel better about being away from the city, but they are nonetheless dependent on it.

      All your fuel, fertilizer, parts for your mechanical equipment, medical supplies, wire, buckets/containers…pretty much everything you own is the result of modern living and came to you via a big city. Look around your retreat: How much of what you can see from your chair was shipped or sourced from from the big city? How long could you last using only what is within a day’s walk of your house? What would you do if you, say, needed an alternator for your truck? Forage in the woods for one?

      I’m not looking to denigrate non-urban dwellers (I am not a city guy myself). I’m only trying to point out that country living gives a false sense of security. The cities will indeed quickly fall apart; the country folk are not far behind.

      • Hammerun

        @Anthony buddy
        I’ve got good news for you. America,when the power goes out, will be the biggest auto salvage yard you could ever imagine. New and late model stuff too. Car no good with no gas!

        • Hammerun

          Hey Mac,
          What the heck is with this mod list thing? I’m felling like a red headed step child here.

        • Joe

          Gas-stations with no electricity will be a hoot! All that gasoline, and they won’t know how to retrieve it. But someone will. 😀

          • SirTubekopf

            The gas station I worked in years ago had calibrated hand pumps the the owner was required to maintain by a law that went back to WW-2. In a national disaster we would be required to open and hand pump/ dispense gasoline. Many stations have these but have never received the needed state of emergency declaration to dust them off. Of course gas would be sold cash only. With a fried grid and telecom system, cash would be king.

      • Claymation

        “Country people may feel better about being away from the city, but they are nonetheless dependent on it.”

        Anthony, exactly, complacency is the real killer when it hits. Prepare what you can now or face the worst of possibilities with the golden horde! Peace Clay

        • old guy

          Wrong Wrong wrong . If the citys ( mostly inhabited by non producing parasite takers) disappeared the farms( mostly inhabited by Producing makers) would survive. If the farms Dissappeared the citys and every parasite taker would cease to exist. There are many items and luxury& advantages Ect. that farmers use located in the citys but they are not necessities. We can survive without those things. the farms produce the food And food is a necessity. No one can live without food.

      • 41MagMan

        Yes, a lot of what we all have does come from the cities. But much of it can be / is being stockpiled and need not be purchased on a routine basis. Having some extra car parts is no big deal and lots of people have them or ready access to them. Meds could be a much bigger problem, especially for diabetics and others who have long-term congenital health problems.

        I guess that it boils down to which is better: being able to live independently for up to several months or not. In a pinch, I’ll take those several months.

      • BlueH20

        Anthony, I’m not too sure about that.

        Over the past 20+ years, a lot of small manufacturing has relocated out of urban areas, due to taxes, fees, EPA and poor quality work force.

        In a 25+/- radius from me, I count a muffler factory that could be easily re-purposed to turn out a lot of needful metal items that require welding, a factory that makes augers and which could also be easily changed around to produce whatever else is needed, some plastic injection molding companies, likewise versatile, several Amish businesses that make various items out of wood and metal, some fiber processors and I am likely forgetting several others and also probably don’t even know every producer in the immediate vicinity. This doesn’t include several gunsmiths and a few other home-based hand or semi-hand manufacturers. Oh, there is also a person who rebuilds medical equipment and several who rebuild appliances (including pipes and pumps), and at least 3 machine shops of varying degree of sophistication. There are also several comprehensive scrap yards. Lots of hobbyists with surprisingly well-equipped home shops rounds out this quick, top-of-my-head census.

        This area has become a retirement destination, meaning we have a lot of human resources who know how to manufacture a variety of items. I don’t doubt these folks could figure out how to take our existing infrastructure and use it to make whatever was necessary.

        Back in the day, we had ram pumps and low head hydro here, too. Government has stopped that, but the resources are still here and plenty of folks, old and young, know how to utilize them. Government has slowed down forestry harvests and there is plenty of hardwood out there for charcoal. A lot was accomplished in the past with charcoal and steam and our Amishmen are very savvy about belts, pulleys and levers.

        Take an in-depth survey of your own area. You could be surprised.

        Cities became industrial centers because of transport, like water and rail and population for a workforce. It was a centralized efficiency model. If there was economic disruption, most areas would be forced to provide for themselves and where there’s a will, there’s a way. every day at 6 am and again at 6pm, I here a horse and buggy going by with three Amishmen going to and from their workplace. That group has no shortage of children who are growing up with a good work ethic.

        I know a lady who was born in Western South Dakota 96 years ago. Her family were peddlers, the father and then the sons taking wagons on routes to trade goods, picking up items in one place and selling them elsewhere along the route. That could happen again, this time perhaps with more efficient communication, even if it was Ham radio.

        Likely new centers would arise, depending on what was available and needed elsewhere. Nothing is really static, even in a collapse situation.

      • Anonymous

        Hello Anthony,
        — I am relatively new to the concept of preparing for all the disaster scenarios the knowledgable foke on this site envision. That being said and hopefully understood , I would like to comment a few of my thoughts about your point of view in regard to city vs. suburban or country dilemma. I live in the poorest and most densely populated section of an affluent town less than 15 miles or 1/2 hour away from a metro city in beautiful New England. From what I read , I might be advised to pack my belongings and relocate to a log cabin with no known mailing address or telephone poles within visual distance using binoculars. Even at my elder age there should be no reason why I should not learn to raise and tend cattle , Plant and harvest enough food to self sustain. Fish . Hunt . Glass contain fruits and veggies . Barter for precious metals. Spin yarn to sew my own clothing. In my spare time I can build on of those Aquaponics contraptions so my pet goldfish can help support my new lifestyle. What I am trying to convey is that it seems so overwhelming for a person finally able to collect a small social security check. Most of the people I know are where they are because of a lifelong journey to that point. I think I would be best suited to prepare where I reside now. If a collapse happens many could perish . The availability of fuel and machinery parts might be scarce as you described but if I prep correctly I have no doubt I will have the ability to trade a few loafs of my delicious walnut raisin bread in exchange for a mechanic to pilfer an alternator from an abandoned Trail Blazer. One of the good things about the suburbs is being somewhat removed from the initial onslot of chaos yet close enough to ask for or render help to a likewise thinking neighbor or friend. You are quite correct about most home furnishings and luxuries somehow being connected or routed thru cities. Yet if you actually look at most of the items they are things you have are already purchased. I doubt that any prudent person would value a new FlatScreen TV , Persian rug or even a new set of bed sheets over food from a local farmstand. A trip to your State Capital might be the last and most undesirable places to venture. Your statement ” The cities will indeed quickly fall apart ; the country folk are not far behind . ” is probable if not accurate. – The problem is It only gives the the apathetic another excuse to smile as they label the prepping community as a bunch of tin foiled nutcases. — One last thing, If most likely the major cities will be the ground zero of violence and mayhem would it not be best not be there in the first place.
        — Thank you for your comment because it gave me the courage to self examine my situation.
        Heck ! As of only a few days ago I thought TEOTWAWKI was some type of Japanese paddle boat.
        —- Miss DeeDee

        • Piper Michael

          Welcome Miss DeeDee…
          You sound like good folks…;)

          • Miss DeeDee

            Thank You

        • Mark

          I used to think TEOTWAWKI was Lakota for the curse Chief Seattle put on Washington.

    14. Human Being

      Yes, Rawles, be a fear monger!

      Don’t encourage us, THE People, to work with each other, help each other …..just create more panic.

      All the while, you, go into your underground bunker, with all the goodies, you and your kind, NOT Native to this Planet, have stolen from us….water, basics, and luxuries. All the while, laughing at us, at our pain and deaths.

      • Claymation

        In order to help anybody else, one must help themselves first. The failure to prepare on your part does not constitute an Emergency on mine. I will help neighbor and stranger alike, but only after I have made sure that me and mine are in a safe position to do so. Clay

        • Hammerun

          10 roger on that shit!!

        • Kulafarmer

          God helps those who help themselves.

          • Prepared Pastor

            Not only is that statement found nowhere in the Bible, it is contrary to the concept of Grace. A variant however, can be found in the Quran (13:11). That must be where you read it.

        • old guy

          Ill not go out of my way to help those who didn’t prepare. Its akin to feeding a stray dog. If you help & feed them once you have taken responsibility to feed & help them forever. The more that perish the better it will be for the surviving in the aftertime. We had a ice storm. Destroyed the Coops Power Distribution system. We where fine until the relatives & friends Discovered we had electric (generator), heat( Wood Stove) , Hot water ect. They all came and used out place to bathe eat etc. and they where mad & jealious too boot. They stayed until the electric came back on. I reseneted the ingrates intrusion. We sold that big home & other property. Got out of debt downsized and relocated. Locked gate at the highway. Don’t want anyone to know where I live. They show up the only thing Ill give them is lead.

      • braveheart

        Human Being, you say we’re not native to this planet? Whose planet are you from?

        • PO'd Patriot

          Planet Mork

        • Piper Michael

          The Mars Theory.

        • Legion7

          Women are from Venus, Men are from Mars, and “human Being” is from uranus.

          • Mark

            Heh, heh… And he has a giant satellite dish sticking out of his ass while singing “I love to sing-a, about the moon-a and the June-a and the Spring-a…”

      • Smokey

        Martians stole all your water and luxuries?

      • 41MagMan

        @Satori… yes they will but the fact that they have NO clue how many great preps they can get for the price of that i-crap tells us all we need to know about their chances. I can see them now, trying to trade that junk for a bottle of water or an apple during SHTF and not finding anyone dumb enough to make the trade.

        • sixpack

          but…but, the iphone 5 now comes in G-O-L-D!

          • SmokinOkie

            Gonna get me one of them Eye phones as soon as they come up with a self-defense-stored-food-water-filter AP

    15. Ancient Echoes

      We could all learn from history that when societies collapsed in the past, people carried on and survived. We are all still here, humanity still exists! However, perhaps this time we can do things differently and not become barbarians but instead let our higher selves take over and not worry about ourselves alone. Just a thought………

      • Kansas John

        The difference this time — people knew how to take care of themselves prior to ‘modern’ living. That is the ONLY difference. Some will survive by sheer luck, others by knowledge and foresight. But, sadly, most will not. I bid those unwilling to learn to adapt a kind farewell. You could’ve and should’ve listened when you had the chance.

        • SWFL

          If the people who could have and should have listened had listened to WHAT they could have and should have listened to we would not be in this mess today. So now we do what we can do and should do to help whomever we can help and should help.

        • Sgt. Dale

          You make a good point. There are people that will hide their heads in the sand and there is nothing anyone can say to get them to prepare. There will be around 50% fatality rate.
          If someone thinks for one minute that my house is the new grocery store will find out it is the precious metal store. LEAD!!!!
          A COUNTRY BOY WILL SURVIVE!!!!! With out power people will have to revert to the 1800.

          • slingshot

            Interesting point about returning to the 1800’s.

            Remarkable how many common hand tools from that time exist today. Brace and bit, awls, malls, C-clamps, chisels. How about a forge to mold or bend stock metal Using a small sledge hammer and anvil.

            Get back to making what you need,

            • Sgt. Dale

              Slingshot:
              I’ve been going to a lot of flea markets and rummage sale and have picked up some of the things you are talking about. Just a little hint to where you might find them.

              • slingshot

                SGT Dale.

                I know what you mean and if you have some patience things will find a way to you at terrific prices. Have picked up Coleman two burner stoves foe $2-$3 . A few single camper stoves for $6. Packs and frames and all sorts of camping gear.
                It is good exercise, scavenger hunt and you can not beat the prices. I have six flea markets in my local area.

      • NC joe

        A noble thought. I commend you for that. Unfortunately, the selfishness expressed by those on this site suggest barbarism will surface quickly.

        • braveheart

          ncjoe, it’s the nonpreppers who will become barbaric and I have a solution for that if they come to my place.

          • RICH98

            bravehart, what solution? To paint your keester up with KY and bend over for em?

            • Archivist

              You seem to know a lot about that subject.

              • RICH98

                Archivist- LOTS of experience yes! I’ve always been a wild woman.

          • Mojo

            What’s your solution braveheart? You gonna drown with all your tears?

            • braveheart

              Mojo and Rich98, you [email protected]#$in trolls, I’ve always worked my ass off and spent a shitload of money on preps over the years. MY OWN MONEY, NOT ANY TAXPAYERS MONEY, @holes. I’ve always been self-sufficient in my own needs. I’ve put too much effort into prepping to stand aside and let a bunch of moronic, useless mofos just take whatever I have. In any post-SHTF scenario, I do expect such a confrontation to take place and most likely and I’ll be forced into using deadly force to protect what I have. AND NO, I WON’T BE DROWNING IN TEARS, BUT SOME POS WHO’S BEEN BRAINWASHED WITH THAT ENTITLEMENT BS WILL BE LAYING ON THE GROUND IN HIS OWN BLOOD AND SHIT! I’ve been through more SHTF situations in my life then either of you 2 morons could imagine and survived each and every one of them BECAUSE I PREP. I WAS PREPARED FOR EACH AND EVERY ONE OF THEM. You 2 enjoy those govt. checks while you can. they’ll get cut off before you know it.

              • Sgt. Dale

                Braveheart
                It takes trolls to make the world go around. The only thing I can add is in the near future we will find out which of us are right.
                Some people would not any idea what it is to spend their own money.
                Like you I have had some SHTF events in my life and like you I was prepared. We can hope and pray that something happens to Mojo and Rich98 so they will learn and grow into good preppers. Some time you have to get hit in the head to wake up.

                • braveheart

                  Howdy, Sgt. Dale. I couldn’t have said it better.

            • ready down under

              I like bravehearts chances light years ahead of yours Mojo

              Aussie

              • braveheart

                Thanks, Aussie. I’ll still be surviving just fine and dandy when the trolls are standing in the FEMA line.

          • Kulafarmer

            Ive got one too for the non preppers,

            Will trade them 5# of veggies for every 5 hours they work in the fields,

            • Ugly

              Kula.

              Sounds like you plan on storing a lot of veggies. Cmon, 5 hours of work?

            • Smokey

              They’ll just stay and eat it all.

              Feeding one person for a year from a garden takes an acre of land. You’re going to need to form a community.

          • Canadian Vet

            If they come in good faith and want to work up a mutually agreeable deal that is mostly in my favour, it will be considered.

            They come demanding a handout just because they think they have a right to my stores they will be ordered to leave in a way that will brook no ambiguity.

            They refuse to leave or try to force their way in then they are taking their lives in their own hands. I shoot fast, I shoot straight and thanks to our magazine restrictions I am really hot on the reload and God helps anyone who threatens my family because they will have a hell of a time getting past me.

        • Canadian Vet

          Is it selfish to put the survival of one’s family above that of strangers? I don’t think so but I’ve been known to be wrong now and again.

          The way I see it, at all times I follow the old leadership priorities. Mission comes first, then the troops and finally myself.

          And once the S has HTF, the mission becomes survival for my family and I. And I will see my troops, my family, looked after first and then finally myself. There is no room for compromising our safety, well-being and survival odds in any way, including being nice to some random.

          • REB

            CV…its the old welfare state mentality mixed up with a few other things…the idea that you gotta help those who WONT help themselves even if it kills you and yours cause otherwise it aint fair…the idea of equality twisted into some dark and ugly thing bearing no resemblance to reality…got news for folks…no, you are not as worthy or important or equal as my family when it comes to my efforts and supplies so quit foolin yourself..you don’t get to shame me into feeding you…you cant bully me into it either…theres also a strain of twisted Christian guilt trip nonsense in it…the takers try to question your values if you wont just hand it over to anyone who demands it…the old “we’re all Gods children” so you gotta help me…no,we first have a moral and natural law right/duty to take care of our own FIRST!..then if thres extra and I “CHOOSE” to help you then OK…other wise NO!…those who poopoo that are just afraid they wont get first/equal dibbs…and guess what?… theyre right!

    16. slingshot

      You do not know how to build a fire.
      Can’t provide clean water.
      Can’t cook your food.
      Provide shelter.
      No personal hygiene awareness.
      Don’t know about sanitation. Poo-Ponics.
      Have to be in the dark.
      No phone.

      Yepper, people gonna die.

      • 41MagMan

        @slingshot… yep, all true. Maybe this is God’s way of weeding the garden a bit?

      • Facebook Page

        Poo-Ponics That must be remembered.

    17. Sigi

      Not everyone who isn’t fully prepped is an ostrich. Some have no wherewithal. Don’t assume you know what motivates others.

    18. slingshot

      Fear, Hunger, Anger. I want what you have and I’m going to take it from you, no matter what it takes.
      Good motivation, I say.

      • NC joe

        People who are hungry will do exactly what you are doing. They will behave in ways they perceive in their self-interest, regardless of the consequences to others.

        • braveheart

          ncjoe, if they try to turn someone else’s home into their ‘store’, they’ll just get themselves killed, you moron.

          • 41MagMan

            Not if they concentrate on the homes of the anti-gun libs, lol.

            It is possible, however, to disagree with someone without becoming disagreeable. Some would call that the essence of civilization. 😉

          • Sgt. Dale

            Breaveheart
            How are you old friend!
            Like I said before “try to make my house your new grocery store. You will find it is the new precious metal shop. LEAD WITH COPPER JACKET!!!
            unless it is you that needs something to eat.

            • Mojo

              YEAH! You tell ’em all there Sarge! Another internet badass blowhard who’ll die of a heart attack if he has to run 100 feet.

              • slingshot

                7.62×39 123 gr. 2630 ft. per second.

                How fast can you run?

              • REB

                …ahh ya…methinks sarge is the one who can do the hundred yards carrying a full pack whilst beating your sorry backside all the way to that heart attack youll suffer at …oh, say…50’…. 🙂

                • Mojo

                  Ya think? A retired cop who probably has an ass the size of 500 donuts?

                • Sgt. Dale

                  Reb.
                  How did you know what I can do. You don’t live in Seneca Ill. do you? I’m 600 tall 225 lbs. with 34 inch waist and 33 inseam, 50″ chest
                  Mojo. Look son I’m 60 years old run 100 yards in just under 12 sec. bench press 300 lbs.
                  If you want to come to Seneca we can have a long talk,

                • REB

                  Mo…its those ASSumptions that get ya killed IF youre lucky…skinned alive and left for the critters if you aint… 🙁

              • braveheart

                Mojo, you would probably have a heart attack if you came to my place and my 12-ga. was pointed at your sorry ass.

                • Mojo

                  ooooooooooooo, more empty threats from the old drunkard himself. I’d take pity on you brave, that is if you didn’t already enjoy your daily self pity.

                • braveheart

                  Mojo, you stupid f#$%, I don’t make threats, I make promises. Plus, I don’t need your f#$%in pity nor anyone else’s. You want to try me, you do so at your own peril.

                • wrong

                  I have a friend who’s dog is named Mojo. That is the stupidest dog I’ve ever seen. Are you related?

            • braveheart

              Sgt. Dale, apart from dealing with trolls and putting in my 2 cents on this article, I’m none the worse for wear. you and I are definitely of one accord. If they come to my place for the same purpose, I also have ‘precious metal’ aka ‘hot lead’. I fully expect it to happen in any post-SHTF scenario. I’m not looking forward to it. I’ve got too much invested in preps to just give up anything. You might want to check out a book titled “One Second After” by William Forstchen. A very plausible scenario about an EMP event that could become all to real. Another EMP scenario is called “Lights Out” at halfpasthuman.org.

              • Sgt. Dale

                I already read it. Thanks for the advised.
                I’m not looking forward to it. I’m worried about the folks that just didn’t prepare. I just pray that other folks read these blogs and get an idea on what to do and that they don’t suffer when the SHTF.
                As far as the Trolls they have the right to speak their minds. When the SHTF I will not say I told you so. I won’t have to because they will be dead in a week or two. May they be dead a 1/2 before the devil know about it

                • slingshot

                  You’re IRISH.

                • braveheart

                  In the last chapter of “One Second After”, it was estimated that only 30,000,000 people were still alive out of a population of 310,000,000 1 year after the EMP struck and that was only an ESTIMATE. I think the true figure will be much lower when the dust settles. I think the trolls will be among the casualties.

                • Prepared Pastor

                  I used to scoff at the figure from one second after because that is a fictional work designed to create drama. Then I leaned that large hunter-gatherer societies today average 12 people per square mile. While some areas will be total uninhabitable, others will be farmed which greatly increases the yield so I will stick with that number for survivability. 12 people per square mile multiplied by 3.8 million square miles in the U.S. would be 45 million people or about 15% so that is what I’m going with.

        • sixpack

          “People who are hungry will do exactly what you are doing. They will behave in ways they perceive in their self-interest, regardless of the consequences to others.?

          You’ve got that kinda skewed, joe.

          Self-interest at the expense of others is quite different from self-interest for the interests of self.

        • Smokey

          When they behave like that only for the short term, they are looters, and worse. Short term thinking begets a short term existence.

          If they think for the longer term, and start becoming part of a community that will work together and provide for itself, that is a positive action that will help their own self-interest and that of the others.

    19. Ronald

      theres a gunshow at K.C.I.airport oct. 26-27 2013.

    20. Henry Bowman

      Toiletry is quite simple. Get a bedside portable commode. Leave it in the back yard. If you don’t have at least a back yard get one. Keep post hole digger handy. Dig a hole. Place portable toilet over hole with bucket removed. Shit in hole. Put dirt back in hole. Next time dig hole next to other hole. If nighttime potty is required, put bucket back in toilet and use inside dwelling., then dig a hole in the morning. Average back yard can accommodate hundreds of these burial sites with no odor. Problem solved.

      • Sgt. Dale

        I say take it to D.C.
        They wouldn’t know the difference form it or what they keep telling us. (Ha-Ha)

      • U-know-who

        Yental….

        Think “ENDGAME” brother…..

        …its where we ‘ARE’ (**RFN!!!!)

        ***********************************************************

        **RFN = Right Fucking Now……

      • U-know-who

        Henry Bowman…

        Please recall the scene where “Curt Behnke & Mr. Crocker are shooting the 6mm (mag) custom & Alex Newman & the F-troop boys show up…remember??????????????

        (see page# 802 & later)

        …aim small, miss small…

        **********************************************************

        …its coming soon, btw!!!!

        **********************************************************

        Best of luck to you, I………..& others!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

        • OutWest

          U-know-who

          Glad to hear from you again, old friend — missed you

          • REB

            Fer sure! 🙂

        • LSB

          Excellent book.

      • sixpack

        “If you don’t have at least a back yard get one” LOL.

        Know of anywhere that a back yard is on sale at the moment?

        • The Old Coach

          Hmmm, I smell a business model selling portable back yards.

        • Smokey

          Lots of yard sales around here, don’t you have them there?

          You can get garages, too.

          • sixpack

            Yeah, we do have yard sales here, but so far, nobody will sell me their yard—does that mean it’s false advertisement?

      • Piper Michael

        @Henry Bowman,
        Loved you in the book… you’re my hero…;)
        I have a PDF version for anybody who’s never read “Unintended Consequences”
        ping me and I’ll put it somewhere inconspicuous.

    21. RickInOregon

      Off topic, sort of:

      We just got back from picking about 30 pounds of chanterelle mushrooms. My wife is going to make a mushroom soup with some of the fresh mushrooms and I’m going to make some fresh bread. We’ll brush off the remaining mushrooms, slice them then dehydrate them for gifts and for cooking. A couple more picking trips and we’ll have more than enough to last the year.

      It was nice to get out and hike around in the rain forest of the Pacific Northwest, the smells, sounds and scenery is refreshing. We just beat the rain and wind home and with it now here, today’s going to a nice day for soup and bread.

      • lastmanstanding

        Just as good as a fishin story Rick…I can taste the mushroom soup and fresh bread.

        I just had spaghetti with homemade sauce from our garden…tomatoes, garlic, onions, zucchinni, both hot and sweet peppers basil and cilantro.

        Our winter squash is about ready…my wife makes a mean butternut squash soup…

        The dried ‘shrooms’ will make awesome gifts…It may be to dry here to find them this fall.

        one never knows what a foray into the wild may bring.

        • RickInOregon

          I was a bad boy with our garden this year, a little after I got everything growing I had left the gate open and the goats got in and ate just about everything. I had to start over and we didn’t get a very good tomato crop this year. Pumpkins and potatoes did good and we have brussel sprouts and cabbage that’s doing well. My herb garden has done very well, (the goats didn’t get into it) and we will be drying a bunch of that out pretty soon.

          Butternut squash soup, that sounds good.

          • The Old Coach

            That is a problem with keeping goats !

      • skeptic

        Rick in Oregon;
        We live in the coast range and pick Chantrelles. No rain yet to the forest floor. Where are you finding all of these mushrooms?

        • RickInOregon

          We got ours up near Bagby Hot Springs.

          That coast range has plenty of moister just from the ocean fog and morning dew. I have friends that’s been picking for a few weeks now. Even Costco has them for sale. Some of the chanterelles that we found were already looking a little old.

        • LSB

          They are out in Clatsop county. Knappa area near Astoria.

      • 41MagMan

        @Rick… Nice! Enjoy that soup and homemade bread. 🙂

      • variabletime

        Check those shrooms for Fuku radiation first.I read that mushrooms soak up radiation very well.

      • sixpack

        mmmm-mmm! Roll them in flour/cornmeal and fry in butter, with a little garlic and fresh oregano. Served with fresh trout and wild potatoes with blackberry cobbler for desert.

      • Mark

        I love chanterelles. They are very expensive, too, if you can even find them in a store. Great find.

    22. Ralphieboy

      Fortunately do have a country place well stocked but a couple of hours from town by auto. Only big concern would be an EMP that would render the vehicle inoperative, Worst case would be having to bike there, hopefully avoiding threats long the way. I’m not so worried about off- grid lifestyle, having grown up in the country. Biggest concern is intruders. Our tiny bug- out community is shared by a close, like- minded group of friends, but I worry about roving gangs and such, which requires some measure of security. I’m hoping that few people will get out our way. So far as I’m concerned, my dogs are a great early warning system, and my wife and kids are all good shots. Hoping it never comes to that.

      We were threatened by Ike, too. But my momma raised no fool. Having been through hurricanes before, I swore I’d never go through another, so we headed out early and went to the country place and hung out here a few days. When I got back a few days later, power was still out at our business, but no worries…we had a genset, plenty of fuel and was up and running in short order. we also keep extra water and food at the place just in case.

      Man, I am really grateful I was raised in the country. We had electricity, but not much else. I had cousins over in the next county with no electricity, only kerosene lamps and such. Fact is, you’re so danged tired by the time the sun goes down, not much need for lights anyway. When the grid goes down, trust me, folks will be so busy just keeping body and soul together they are not going to be too worried about missing the X factor or a Sunday NFL game. But hey, it’s a good tiredness.

      Rawles may seem pretty extreme for some people, but you really do have to figure a very worst case scenario.

      • 41MagMan

        @Ralphie…

        “Fortunately do have a country place well stocked but a couple of hours from town by auto. Only big concern would be an EMP that would render the vehicle inoperative.”

        So buy an old beater-mobile that was made in the 1960s and isn’t susceptible to the rigors of EMP. Keep the tank full and drive it for half an hour once a week. Could be one of the best investments ever. 🙂

        • Ralphieboy

          @ 41 magman Great idea. I’m thinking an old pickup. My dad, who passed in 2005, kept a ‘ 71 Ford pickup on the farm that he only drove to town about once a month. Would you believe only had 27k miles when he died. He had promised it to his local gas station guy, however. Wish I could find an old ’49 or ’50 6 cyl Chevy that’s been covered up in a barn somewhere.

          Man, I keep thinking how primitive things were back in the 1950s when I was a kid compared to now. No ac for example, so in the summer we just slept out on the screened in back porch, watching the fireflies and listening to crickets as we fell asleep. My grandma made everything from scratch, starch, soap, pie crust, you name it. In the fall all the females in the family would get together to put up canned goods. For Christmas, Grandma would take one look at you and make you a shirt on her pedal Singer sewing machine, no pattern involved. And one year she gave all us kids are own hand sewn quilts. All of us kids still have them 50 years later.

          Of course, we always had a big garden, fresh milk, fresh eggs, and fresh catfish whenever we laid out a trot line. Can’t forget home made ice cream, which took a lot of work as we turned the crank, but it was worth it.

          So the more I think about it, the more I’m thinking getting back to the very basics might not be so bad. Sure, we depended on store bought stuff. My Dad had to go into town about once a month to buy toothpaste, and eventually razor blades after he stopped shaving with a straight razor, and we kids would get shoes and such once a year.

          No question that cheap oil, cheap credit and massive industrial growth with high wages lured Americans away from our rural roots, creating a massive urban, dependent middle class. As Americans became more dependent on corporate ” benefits”, then government benefits, the whole concept of true personal freedom was compromised. I have really hated to watch Americans become so progressively dependent and parasitic. Could never buy into that mindset myself, probably why I eventually got into my own business. Not so hard to do, really. I worked a lot of years in construction, heavy equipment and mining, but saved my dough, lived frugally, and took the leap of faith. Guess that is why I remain simply one intolerant redneck who has no patience for the whiners and victims who believe it takes a village and they are all entitled to the fruits of my hard work.

      • JayJay

        I’m 63 and I remember the outhouse!!!

        I was 6 when we got indoor plumbing.
        My talented father built our houses and in our house with the first bathroom, I remember playing in the room that was the intended bathroom.
        First, the toilet, then the sink and tub.
        Yep–thank the Lord we were small kids; I still remember the bath in the kitchen sink and it was a huge sink.
        I know I must have been 4 or 5.

    23. PALADIN

      As long as the internet remains intact in a real S.H.T.F. type event. This site I am sure will remain a valuable communication hub for the events waiting to unravel. The scoffers and the mockers have not a leg to stand on concerning end time events. Their delusional fairy tale, disney land mentality conerning world wide events is being over ridden with the tragedy and destruction going on worlwide. Full bellies and warm blankets is just one motto for the prepared prepper.

      • Sgt. Dale

        Paladin:
        Great statement:
        You are 100% right. It would be nice to have SHFT site still up to help you throw the dark times, but as you know it won’t be. TPTB will shut this site down ASAP!
        That’s one nice thing about being a survivalist/prepper for all these years.

        • Archivist

          Packet radio and ad hoc networks using ham radio can distribute messages and files. Something needs to be put in place very soon so that it will run smoothly, be reliable, and everyone will know about it that needs to know.

          • sixpack

            I’d like to add myself to the comm link, I just need someone who knows what they’re doing to confer with, about what equipment I already have, and what I need to be effective. If anyone is interested in helping, I can make online tech manual links to the equipment I already have available.

            I already know what to do with the 40chan CB, but the handheld programmable transceiver radio eludes me. I don’t know what exactly it is capable of, and if it would be of any practical use.

            Mac has my email.

            • Archivist

              I have to do a lot of research. I know packet radio and ad hoc networks exist, but I have not been involved in it. I have receivers, but I don’t have a transmitter yet. I know a ham who can help with purchasing equipment and setting up packet radio, but I haven’t got the money yet.

              I believe if a widespread packet radio network were set up, the government couldn’t stop it. I also think that the radios should be set up at locations other than the homes of hams, so that they won’t be in the FCC database.

              I will research it and post whenever I have enough information to actually demonstrate it and can provide a “cookbook” or step-by-step how-to tutorial. It may take me a while, because I really need access to the equipment. I can learn from books, but it is better to also learn by doing.

    24. Be informed

      @ Satori. I would say the Cascadia fault has a 1/3 chance of going off in the next year. When you had that 7.8 strike slip earthquake in Quuen Charlotte region, this increased the time of the Cacadia breaking by decades the same as the Big Bear/Landers earthquake in 1992 did to the Northridge earthquake 1 and 1/2 years later. The earthquake sooth of Alaska’s aminland that was a 7.5 increased the tension even more so on the Cascadia. The New Madrid fault needs a big push from the east to speed up when it will break. The Southern San Andreas has more tension on it right now than most major faults in the world.

      I have been trying to figure out what I think is coming. Call it just a hunch, but I feel very strongly that IT will come with a surprise in the early to late morning to people in the U.S. This is just a feeling. I also think that a black swan is really probable. The surprise that is coming might shock all of us. This pattern of shock seems to be a lot more common. Just look at how no one saw Fukushima from the tsunami, as no one saw a 9 pointer and a multi-story tall tsunami. I am beginning to think that something from space like a pogue asteroid may be in the works.

      Any ideas out there what black swan could be coming?

      • kynase

        BI…southern San Andreas? Any feel for when this might unleash (odds, magnitude, etc)? I’ve been prepping but still have a few loose ends to tie up. Would love to hear your insight. THANKS!

    25. old radio nut

      Something to consider in your preparations. If (When) it hits the fan and people are REALLY hungry the smell of cooking will draw them like the proverbial moth to the flame. Some deeelicious cold canned chili, tuna fish, etc. might be a good thing to have. Lot of freeze dried and dehydrated food needs to be reconstituted and even these will have an aroma. Read a Louie L’Amour novel where the bad guy finds the girl because he could smell the pie she was cooking for her cowboy. Oh, yeah she was saved in the nick of time and they lived happily ever after. But you can bet your life the cavalry won’t be coming to save you if they smell coffee and pancakes. They’ll be coming hungry.

      • sixpack

        THIS, I’ve got covered! I’ve got a big percentage of open-and-eat food in my preps. The empty cans can be converted to other uses.

    26. Nick

      FWIW, my wife still thinks I’m going overboard with prepping, so I’ve started sneaking preps into the house when she’s not home and stashing it in an area of the house where she rarely goes. She’s not very observant with a lot of things, which is allowing me to prep more and argue less, while at the same time trying to show her little things pointing to bigger things coming our way. I’m sure she’ll appreciate later what I’m doing now, but for now I figure it’ll be easier to apologize later than to ask for her assent now.

      • 41MagMan

        As they say, Nick… “It is often easier to get forgiveness than permission”. Prep on.

        • Legion7

          My wife quit asking “why” after we lost power for 2 weeks after an ice storm. She enjoyed the wood heat and watching satellite TV while the Christmas tree blinked in the corner, generator humming in the background. She no longer questions why I want 100 gallons of diesel stored and all vehicle fuel tanks at “half” or better… they usually come around pretty quick when they see your preps in action.

      • PO'd Patriot

        Good boy Nick. Here all this time my wife thinks the firearms and can goods on the selves were breeding after dark.

      • JayJay

        Not at my house you don’t!!! I can tell when the towel in a bath gets moved!!!!

        • PO'd Patriot

          Ain’t no doubt in my mind.

          • PO'd Patriot

            You probably mark the towel bar with light pencil marks on both sides of the towel.

            • JayJay

              nice idea..thanks!! :-)(smiley face)

              • PO'd Patriot

                LOL!

      • Obtuseangler

        Nick, I did things like that in the past. Over time, when things on the news would get scary, she started to have some concerns about the way the country is changing. She knew I had been putting things back, but didn’t know what we had. She just knew that if she needed anything I could go into the basement and get it. I finally had the courage to ask her to help me inventory some things. She seemed relieved to know we had some security in several areas.

        I guess my point is, so long as you aren’t building up debts, she will be glad one of these days. If the things you put back will be used, like food, or increase in value over time, like some defensive capability, you haven’t really incurred additional costs. My attitude was that it was my job to provide for my family’s safety without flipping them out.

        BTW, Rawles’ books rock, regardless of what some on here say in criticism of him. He has another coming out soon.

        • Kulafarmer

          JWRs book are definitely riveting, and he has some good insights.

    27. PenCRNA

      The poo question…hmmmmm. Don’t know where we’d bury pooh…..maybe dig an outhouse at the back of the church property a little ways down the road? It’s far enough from houses and downwind. If you had lye, wouldn’t that cut the odor/bug infestation? Any insight would be appreciated. The only time I was ever in an outhouse I was 3 years old and my mother said I ran out screaming. I’dont remember that instance, but I do remember every time we visited the old spinster aunt/uncle, I went pee in the bushes behind the chicken yard.

      It has been a productive weekend. I’ve made a dozen pints of mild and hot salsa, 7 pints peach preserves and I have juice straining for mixed berry jelly made from all my leftover fruit. I can’t go to the grocery store without picking up preps. If its on a good sale and we use it regularly I’m buying double. I went out for cheesecloth this morning, and I know one pack will last me a while (I wash and reuse) so I got two. I had started couponing 2 years ago to save money, but ive been spending all the extra on preparedness related items.

      Gotta sit and make a list of all I got with rotation dates. Don’t want anything going bad. This is like having a third job. Good thing I enjoy homesteading.

      Securing bulk water storage next week, as well as a 3rd means of purifying.

      @ Prepped in CT…..I’ll be emailing you shortly.

      • PO'd Patriot

        Keep saving your plastic supermarket bags. I double them up and keep some on the work truck. I line a plastic bucket with them (They’ll hold tightly around the bucket top edge) when I need to take the “Browns to the Superbowl”. When you finish with the paperwork, take the handles and tie a knot in them and dispose of the bag. Don’t expect them to hold pee though. Ain’t gonna happen. Just use the plastic bucket for that.

        • IL woman

          Hahaha I thought we were the only ones. We have the commode from when my dad got out of the nursing home. Gonna line the bucket with Walmart bags. Glad we don’t have to deal with the splinters from an outhouse bench.

          • sixpack

            When I was young, I was convinced the spiders in the out house were gonna get me—so I’d throw my brother in there first, just to see what happened…If he made it out alive, then I could do it too.

            (My brothers used to take sawmill slats and bat entire hives of bumble bees for fun.) Bugs were not a concern of theirs.

      • JayJay

        Just for you Pen…
        modernsurvivalblog.com/survival- … -by-dates/

        add http:

        and any others here that are throwing out foods.
        STOP IT!!! I’m using mayo with a use by date of April, 2011–I bought a case @ 99¢ a jar. Even the manager said it was good for years–a lady before me bought a cart full!!

          • sixpack

            Thanks, I needed that!

        • Mark

          I deliberately saved some food for 2 ears past the expiration date, just as an experiment. Opened a can of black beans and ate the. As far as I could tell, they were as good as the day they were canned.

      • JayJay

        Don’t forget pool shock–$4 a bag, good for 10,000 gallons.
        And lots of Tang.

        • Legion7

          Tang has a funny taste, I’ll stick with the pool shock…

      • loulou

        research “compost toilet”. Unfortunately my house is built on caliche rock.

    28. Be informed

      @ knasse. Southern San Andreas has 313 years+ of stress built up on it. This means that 30-45 feet of horizontal movement is ready to go. The 1906 earthquake in SF had 21 feet and the 1857 earthquake south of Bakersfild had 29 feet. Strike slip faults are like when someone gets rear ended from the back, they tend to go into the car in front of them and maybe a couple or more after that. There is way more than enough energy on the south to trigger the central that breaks on the average every 140 years, it is overdue by 16 years. If there is enough energy to go past the creep zone south of San Jose to the northern section of the San Andreas, then the entire fault could rupture from Mexico to south of Oregon.

      IF the southern San Andreas breaks ONLY, which I highly doubt as there is too much energy built up, 7.8 to 8. Southern San Andreas and central portion, 325 miles of fault from about the Salton Sea to Parkfield, 8.1 to 8.4. A break from Salton Sea to San Francisco, 8.5-8.6. If the break continued to south of Oregon 9 maximum. Strike slips don’t have much vertical movement, and to get an earthquake past 9 you have to have vertical displacement on top of horizontal movement. This is how much energy is released. To have a 10 pointer you would have to have a fault break that was several thousand miles in total mass snap and move.

      It is really not the magnitude you have to worry about, it the time of the shaking that will destroy buildings. Every 2 miles of fault means about 1 second of shaking. Every 100 miles of break means 50 seconds of shaking. 800 miles of break would mean 400 seconds of shaking. I think though that it will just be the southern and central fault will break, but the entire fault or some of it past Parkfield is quite possible.

      Look at the Cascadia fault, if it breaks the San Andreas like back in 1700 is living on very borrowed time. If the New Madrid or any major portion of the Caribbean plate breaks like in 1812, the San Andreas will likely go very soon afterwards. Any strong push from the south from a strike slip fault can also trigger the San Andreas. I have seen recent earthquakes on the plate boundaries that point to an increased stress on California, but it seems right now at the time to be more poiting to the Australian and Nasca/Cocos plates.

      The garbage about a 3% chance of the San Andreas going this year is one of the most skewed averages that there is. This is from the idea that in 30 years there is a 90% chance of it breaking. Statistics no way work this way. Each year from the original time it broke the odds continue to increase fro near 0% to near 100%. The politicians no way want people to understand this. Think of driving a car without an oil change. For the first 10000 miles it is probably not going to matter, but when you get up to 30000 miles or so, the engine is running on borrowed time unless something is done soon. The San Andreas, the south, is just like an engine that has not had an oil change in 40000-50000 miles. Yes, it is that close to breaking.

      Rock can only take so much stress before giving way. Right now the San Andreas is just waiting for a trigger for it to go. The southern San Andreas usually breaks every 200-250 years, this sucker is 60-115 years overdue. Very large land masses can accumulate stress a little longer that smaller ones.

      The San Andreas cannot continue this much longer. It is nearing that 100% chance of breaking. That 3% chance is a lie. It is like trying to pick a certain card out of a deck of 33 cards. We are not talking about taking 33 cards and taking one card out and then reshuffling the whole deck with the same 33 cards to try to find that one card. What you are doing is taking one card out and NOT putting it back. Next card draw is 1 in 32 cards, then 1 in 31, and that is the way to see the San Andreas odds of breaking. Eventually you have 2 cards left, then finally one. Do you see how these horrible government slobs try to distort the truth that have not taken statistical math?

      • kynase

        BI-

        Thanks so much for your insight. Over the past few years I’ve been monitoring quake and space activity, watching them closely and looking for patterns. I’m a trained molecular biologist, thus have the analytical drive to want to see the patterns. I love hearing your perspective because you base your statements off of data and research. I simply don’t have the time or past knowledge of data to adequately interpret what should happen along fault lines…in other words…THANKS FOR YOUR HARD WORK!

        • sixpack

          with a handle like Kynase, of course you are a molecular biologist.

      • Leslie Anne

        What about the New Madrid? Also, would the New Madrid affect Wisconsin?

    29. braveheart

      Mac, while I respect James Rawles along with his site and the information he puts out, I found an interview with Selco at SHTFSchool.com on the The Survival Podcast with an opposing perspective about bugging out from urban areas. Direct link: http://ready4itall.org/top-10-reasons-why-youre-probably-better-off-staying-in-the-city-during-a-shtf-disaster/ I find it questionable to some degree, but I also respect Selco and his knowledge. he’s already survived in a city during the Balkan Wars and can offer some things none of us have ever considered. You might also want to carry this interview on this site. I think everyone would find it interesting. Another interesting story: http://www.rockymountainsurvival.com/ready-or-not-three-levels-of-survival-preparedness/

      • ready down under

        Brave, I reckon you need to plan to be where you are known and welcome. A city boy suddenly landing in the country (and vice versa) will be like a fish outta water and very VERY vulnerable. (Wont stop a lot from trying though). If you have been many years in a suburb you may be better off staying there instead of suddenly landing in the boonies and being looked at as a refugee with nothing to contribute. People who already live in the country on their retreat will be aware of how long it took them to be considered a “local”. Hard choice if you are in the city and all hell breaks loose but using up your last tank of gas heading for the hills with no particular place to go can land you in a world of hurt with no plan B. You have a place in Ga to go to and my retreat is ready and waiting but others may not be so lucky. Also, if all hell breaks loose, between “here” and “there” may well be some of the most dangerous territory in our countries and with no idea of what the lay of the land is around the next bend, massive disadvantage. The deck will be stacked against anyone taking off on a wing and a prayer, both those heading to the city and from.

        Aussie

        • OutWest

          ready down under — how right you are

          there’s a saying out here in the back
          country that kind of goes like this —
          the city folk talk to the newly moved
          country transplant (local), the local
          talks to the generational native born
          folk, but the generational native born
          folk only talk to God.

          Like it or not, that’s the way it is.

        • braveheart

          Aussie, thank you for those thoughts. Going to GA is my Plan B provided I can get out of the city in time. Plus, I’ve spent some time there previously and already know the area to some degree. Also, I have enough family where I’m going to vouch for me, so I’ll be alright. I don’t see how anyone can be better off in an urban area if you no longer have a working water and sewage system, and they will stop working when the grid goes down. Without a Plan B for that, it’s curtains.

      • NEVER-THIRSTY!

        So very ,very true Braveheart. I think water should be the first priority for any prepper. It was for me,and i,m sure it is for any realist. A big thumbs up on that post!

    30. Y'all Beware!

      bravehart , don’t forget a little fun.

      A man is walking behind his wife and says,
      “Baby, your ass is getting so fat it’s looking like a washing machine.”
      The woman keeps quiet and keeps walking.
      Bedtime comes around, the man is asking for sex.
      The woman says:
      “I’m not starting the washing machine for such a small load.
      You’ll have to hand-wash it!”

      Y’all Beware! Keep Smilin

    31. Sierra Dave

      Two thoughts.

      One. I have been thinking more and more about stocking basic foods for the non prepared local morons. I feed them and then use them as meat shields. Not that I won’t join in in a fire fight. Strength in numbers and all that. But a buffer between me and raiders is not a bad idea.

      Two. My thoughts are leaning more and more towards proactive behavior towards non friendlies in the area. Is it really smart to wait for THEM to initiate hostile actions at the best time for them? I am giving this a lot of thought.

      • brinksmom

        I am having the same thoughts, Sierra Dave.But if you give them some canned goods( I know never to hand out ready to eat food) won’t they be back the next day, or even later the same day? Worrisome.

        • Sierra Dave

          Well, we’re talking your local neighbors. And you will be requiring them to start converting their yards to gardens or no food.

          What choices do you have? Let them starve? And they might raid you. Or try to make them useful by growing gardens. And be a buffer from raiders.

          In my vision, you chose a few neighbors and set up a community. Four households getting food from you should be enough of a defense group. Supporting them for a few months til their gardens start kicking in. Potatoes grow in 3ish months.

        • JayJay

          Yes, those not prepared will be back the next day; but not alone!!!

          • Sierra Dave

            Lose lips sink ships. Sure some might let it slip there’s a prepper. But IMHO, I think most will shut up and keep the secret. Not in their interest to spread the news about you having food.

            No man is an island. If you can afford to create a small community. Do it.

            Print out survival documents in advance.

            • Kulafarmer

              Good points Dave,
              Ill gladly feed my neighborhood with anything growing around here to have the extra eyes, ears, and arms! Already cultivating crops that keep regrowing,

      • Canadian Vet

        If you go hunting for the scumbags you run the risk of being caught in an engagement on ground that isn’t favourable to you or, even worse, in a kill-zone if theirs either as an ambush or their own defensive works.

        Also, as a bare minimum, you need a 3 to 1 advantage in numbers to attack an enemy position successfully and be able to continue operations.

        On the defence, if you have the numbers you can easily maintain 24 hour security watch and with a bit of work you can have prepared fighting positions all around, and you will have the advantage of home ground you can have prepared with obstacles to trip them up, nature them or funnel them into your heaviest weapons’ arcs of fire. Combine that with old range cards and inconspicuous range markers and you have a much stronger defensive posture.

        And if you present a hard target, odds are they’ll look for easier pickings.

        • Night breaker

          Exactly as i stated in my post back awhile ago, I originally learned about this method in scout sniper school in the mid 1980’s from books that were required reading, then discussed in our Small arms Tactics and Maneuvers classes.

          A Rifleman Went To War by H.W. Mcbride Captain 21st Battalion CEF

          With British Snipers to the Reich by Captain C. Shore

          It is well advised to read these classics much information is useful to this day and they are very good for the study of small unit infantry tactics, they were required reading in the USMC training course I attended.

          If this goes down like I think it will, the information contained in well be EXTREMELY helpful.
          Time is getting short , get your preps in order . Get your life in order .

          STUDY, TRAIN LIKE YOU INTEND TO FIGHT , FIGHT LIKE YOU TRAIN

          FORTUNE FAVORS THE BOLD

          RESIST NO MATTER WHAT

          Semper Fi 8541

        • Sierra Dave

          I’m talking within your sphere of knowledge. Your local neighborhood.

          Convert the useful ones with some food. Get the bad ones to move on. Maybe not even with a direct confrontation. Suspicious fires happen…

          • Smokey

            Think longer in time, you want those houses empty for a family of refugees.

    32. braveheart

      Y’all Beware, I almost fell out of my chair. That was real good. sounds like you’ve been taking lessons from SmokinOkie.

    33. Chimera

      BREAKING NEWS: THOUSANDS OF “MARTIAL LAW NOW IN EFFECT” SIGNS SPOTTED BY THE TRUCK LOAD IN ILLINOIS.
      September 22, 2013 · by jeffgiles · in Videos
      A friend who is a truck unloader saw three diesel trucks completely packed with these signs. Listen to the full interview to get all the details!

      Here was the message I got on Facebook late last night:

      My friend was unloading trucks at work and there were 3 diesel trailers full of real nice expensive signs stacked front to back side to side top to bottom with signs going to 3 local bases in a caravan that look like a trespassing sign saying martial law is in effect. The guy wouldn’t let him take pics. I just wanted to let you know. My buddy called me right away. Id have to say no one would order that many without knowing something.

      I then asked if he could give me more details on this so we did this phone interview.

      My personal take: I’ve been seeing this for years but hearing what he had to say hits close to home. I am in no way prepared at this moment in time for such an event, as most people are likely unprepared. I believe the caller believes what he is saying but there is always a chance his friend could be having a good time with him. Regardless it is always better to be safe than sorry and there is nothing wrong with contemplating worst-case-scenarios. It would have been awesome if he had provided a photo, but he did not, but for a person to say, “photo or it didn’t happen” is just ridiculous… No one can say for certain if it did or did not happen, other than the witness. People should decide for themselves what to believe. I at the very least believe this story to be worthy of getting out there.

      Part 2 where we discuss all the possibilities of what this martial law event will be about and how we should react is below.

      A couple years ago, the following article came out on Snopes. http://www.snopes.com/politics/conspiracy/martialsigns.asp
      I want to remind people that this is NOT that incident. This is a NEW incident that just happened the other day! It’s real creepy having this hit so close to home. I hope nothing happens soon because I am NOT prepared for this.

      Update: I asked him to clarify a few things.

      1. How long have you known your source: Good friends since middle-school and he was definitely telling the truth.
      2. Why could he not get a photo? He tried to take pics. The guy closed the thing up and called a supervisor. He has a wife and kid and is barely getting by. He couldn’t do it with them right there.
      3. When I asked him to use instant upload apps for the phone he replied: Have to use stealth cameras. Phone wont do. They’re not the cops, they’re feds. They don’t like phones out period. All fed buildings around here have signs saying no electronics phones etc at all. Even the social security place for christ sake

      Once again this doesn’t change anything. There is no proof, and I was aware of that from the start. But once again to say that it didn’t happen because there is no proof, is completely ignorant, as I explain in the below video.

      • sixpack

        I imagine they’d protect that from being photographed, simply BECAUSE no one would believe it unless there was a pic—plausible deniability, on the grounds that you can’t PROVE it.

      • M

        Sounds good , glad I live on post

      • Smokey

        Something that sensitive, they would unload it themselves.

        I’m calling hoax.

    34. PenCRNA

      One HOT prepper tip for the day…..

      Never make hot pepper anything while barefoot! Yesterday I must have dropped a seed off the counter or something while seeding out the peppers. I have a serious burn on the inside of my pinky toe. Started about an hour after working with the peppers. I put socks and shoes on and when my feet got hot and sweaty in the shoes my toe caught fire. Hot Dang it hurts!

      • sixpack

        my feet are way too tough for that…you remove the seeds from your peppers? For planting? I leave the seeds in my salsa, it’s hotter that way.

      • Smokey

        Crushed some red pepper flakes in my fingers a while back to add to the pot, about 10 minutes later I must have touched my eye, because the next thing I knew I was standing in the shower, washing the capsicum out of the eyelid.

    35. freedomwarrior43

      Boy, are a lot of you in for a rude awaking. You think this crap is funny and make jokes. when shtf for whatever reason, people are gonna die and I suspect a lot of you will go down crappin in your pants when it does. I live outside of Houston TX. and I’ve seen what people are like just 3 days after a hurricane. I watched what happened in N.O. after Katrina. people pissed and crapped all over the place. They raped, killed, and looted the city. And that wasn’t even a week. May God help us if the grid goes down for even a month. I’m also a war veteran and have seen trained grown men piss and crap in their pants in a fire fight and freeze unable to do anything. Some of you are just a bunch of wanna be bad asses. You haven’t even been in a situation to test your bad ass talk. I disagree with a 50% die off, at least 80% in the first 3 months, if that long. People aren’t like they were a hundred years ago. they have been modernized and spoiled. I thank God now that I’m a country boy and a war vet, cause city folk won’t survive in the city and they don’t know how in the country.

      • PO'd Patriot

        Guess we’ll know when we get there.

      • I,m ready. Are you?

        Just having alittle fun in a not so funny world there freedom warrior. For myself i know that i,m set to give it a good go in very hard times and i,m sure many on the site are to. Never ever stop prepping! When S.H.T.F. the only supplies a person will have is what they laided up in their own personal larder. It,ll be to late to procure goods when the maddness begins!

        • freedomwarrior43

          I know what you mean “I’m ready”, but some of these are just pure idiots. They think its a game…I mean really, they dont know what to do with their shit……… really!
          Hell, just dig a whole and bury it. The 5 gallon bucket isnt all that of a good ideal because you will have to use water to clean the residue, if you don’t you still can create dysteria, and the smell will continue if you don’t clean it. Or, if you want to be real creative, you can use it as a weapon.
          Step 1: dig a hole about 16″ wide and about 2′ deep

          And ” Justex” Thats what I’m talking about. Your 100% right.
          Step 2: cut off some 1-2″ wide by 8-10″ long sticks and sharpen them to a point.
          Step 3: bury them in the hole, point up, with 6-8″ exposed upward
          Step 4: take your dump in the hole, use a cloth or leaves and spread all over the tips of the sticks.
          Step 5: sprinkle some sand or dirt over the crap.(this will help mask the smell)
          Step 6: build a light foliage top to cover the hole
          Mark them to where you know where they are at and do this around your perimeter.
          You can do this with a lot of similar type booby traps.
          Dip your arrows or spears tips in it.
          learned all that in Nam.
          And if your smart enough, you can make a methane pit.

      • slingshot

        FW43.

        Weeding out the Wannabe Bad Asses from the Real Survivalist.
        There is always someone more trained than you and someone less trained than you. Might come down on how you execute your training as to who wins. Many do not Get It, till they are In It. Lots of things happen in the dark. To engage or not to engage makes the difference.
        We will not know what another can do but you can get an idea of what he or she might be able to do. For instance those people who buy a rifle and put all sorts of crap on it, Laser, flashlight, rails, front handle piece.
        I want to see just the gun and a good scope or iron sights. Beware of the person who asks you to site their gun in for them and has never shot his own weapon.
        You also have those that tell you how to do everything and never get their hands dirty. Tools sometimes are called by different names and they never pick up the jargin.
        Most of all many do not have any real life experiences to call upon. Because many are young. Nothing will happen to them and they feel they will live forever. They play too many play station games.
        As we talk of the Die Off and the time it would take to decease the number of people within a certain area there is lots of criteria to consider.
        Don’t underestimate this. People will live longer than you think. The will to live is strong.
        To be able pull the trigger and kill will determine if we make it to the other side. You can’t BLUFF THAT!

        • Kulafarmer

          Open sights
          Why dont they put open sights on bolt action rifles any more?
          When i picked up my last AR i was grooving on the flip up sights and a guy said throw em away and put a laser and EO on it, i just asked him what i would do when they fail and theres no replacements? Even if its seeing no more action than killing wild dogs, i want open sights, can just never tell. Same guy was giving me shit about the open sights a week later and i just happened to have the stick on target from the last round in my jeep, went out and grabbed it, came back in the store and stuck it on his forehead, had 6 holes in it and two of them were where his eyes were, stuck it on his forehead and said open sights, everybody in the shop started rolling, pretty funny.

        • freedomwarrior43

          Aman to that slingshot, they gonna stock pile batteries for those scopes, lasers and barrel flashlights. Yeeha let me see you coming and I’ll put that light out permanently.when it’s dark in the bush, stay dark in the bush. And while the will is strong, the no how is the main factor.

    36. Socrates

      To re-iterate what Braveheart said about water:

      You will never have too much water, period. Unless Noah floats by with an Ark, you don’t have enough. I touched on this subject a few articles ago, but many may not have seen it since the new ones came out.

      Having the means to transport, purify and store water will be the difference between life and death. If all the Nuke plants meltdown, then you won’t have to worry about water, as you’ll only have a short time to live.

      Store:

      DO NOT use old milk jugs, juice bottles and the like to store water in, plastic is porous and it will still contain lactic acid and enzymes from milk no matter how many time you think you washed it. Juice and others, same thing-don’t do it. Your best bet is glass carboys (think wine or beer) with a silicone bung, or stopper. Glass is still one of the best long term storage containers for food or water as it doesn’t leach PBA or other nasty chemicals. It is also easily cleaned and dis-infected. If you have food grade 25 or 55 gallon drums for water (ones that didn’t olive oil or other food stuffs before), even better. These are tough and the sidewalls are meant to handle the weight of heavy liquid loads.

      Purify:

      Many think that Berkey filters are ‘the bomb’ in water filtration. Sorry to tell you this, but they are not. Yes, I see the stupid banner ad on this site (And others) all the time. Big deal. Berkey filters are ok for some things, but not all. Your best bet is a multi-tiered water filtration system. You can use the Berkey (and some others) for pre-filtering your water, but the one thing they don’t filter out- virii. NO, not cysts, or nasties…actual virii which are way smaller than they can filter out. Look at the Sawyer filters if you want real water filtration. http://www.sawyer.com/tech-water.html

      Some have mentioned ‘pool shock’ as being a cheap as easy solution to water purification. Well, that’s part of it, but make sure you get PURE Calcium hypochlorite and not pool shock with algaecides or other ingredients … these will kill you.

      I also mentioned that having a good dehumidifier around is a good idea…if you have power to run it. Most won’t.
      Even though the water is technically considered ‘gray water’ it is actually like distilled water but will still need good filtering with that Sawyer filter. Point is- it’s water out of thin air and you can even add Epsom salts(very small amounts) to re-introduce trace minerals and flavor to the water.

      Transport.

      This is where those 25 gallon plastic drums come in handy. Water weighs approx. 8.34 pounds per gallon, and a 25 gallon drum full of water weighs a lot- 208.5 pounds. Not something I want to pick up myself(or could). Mount the 25 gallon drum to a good quality dolly with good tires. With 2 people, I have been able to scoot quite a bit of water around this wa