Food… check.
Water… check.
Guns and ammo… check.
Gold, silver and bartering supplies… check.
Most of those who have taken steps to prepare for a post-collapse America have acquired the basic essential goods and trading supplies that will be needed in the event of worst-case economic, financial or societal collapse. We’ve created bug-out, bug-in, and self defense plans that we hope will be sufficient enough to give us the edge against potential thieves, looters and criminals who will undoubtedly be coming for our supplies when resources in the general population begin to run dry. Stocked with the latest in SHTF weaponary and ammunition, the overwhelming majority of us believe that we’ll be able to neutralize any threat that may present itself.
In general, the three million preppers in America will no doubt hold several key advantages over non-preppers, namely that we’ve stocked larder to provide the energy we need to function at optimal production levels, land that is isolated or well secured against the inevitable hordes of people looking basic survival goods like food, and firearms to defend what’s ours.
However, despite how prepared we think we are, if there’s one principle by which preppers should operate it’s that best laid plans generally don’t pan out the way we anticipated. Murphy’s law will be in full effect in a post-collapse scenario. As such, we must operate from the standpoint that “anything that can go wrong will go wrong.”
Many of us may (wrongly) assume that our guns and thousands of rounds of ammunition will be all that is needed to defend our homes against those who would do us harm, and that our well honed shooting skills will allow us to quickly incapacitate would-be attackers.
Speak to any soldier who’s been in a firefight and you’ll quickly learn that this is not usually the case.
While you may be able to accurately hit static targets at the range, if you’re engaged in a real life or death scenario your target will be moving, they’ll likely be coordinating with other elements of their raiding party, and most important of all, they’ll be shooting back.
That’s right, you won’t be the only one with the firearms and best laid plans.
As such, we must look to force multipliers which, through enhanced technology, strategies and equipment, increase our probability of victory.
For those preparing for the end of the world as we know it and a battle for resources, one such force multiplier which can provide a significant advantage on a number of different levels is body armor.
The fact of the matter is that if your home or property are under attack and you’re firing down range, in all likelihood the attackers are not coming at you with machetes and rocks. You can bet they’ll be shooting back at you – and they’ll be shooting to kill.
In the video below, James Yeager of Tactical Response, gives some insight into the different types and protection levels of body armor that you should consider adding to your preparedness supplies.
Sourced via Prepper Website
How effective is body armor? In February of 1997 two bank robbers armed with fully-automatic AK-47’s and wearing heavy body armor were confronted by some 400 LAPD police officers. They were repeatedly hit by small arms fire, yet continued the shootout with police for some 40 minutes before they were finally eliminated by police SWAT snipers and LAPD officers who had acquired high powered rifles from local gun shops.
As you consider your home and property defense plans, think about the type of weaponry your attackers may be utilizing as they attempt to overtake you. How would you do it? Then, consider that classification levels of body armor you will need to protect against those weapons.
Via GlobalSecurity.org:
NIJ (National Institute for Justice) Standard-0101.04 establishes six formal armor classification types, as well as a seventh special type.
Type I (.22 LR; .380 ACP)
This armor protects against .22 long rifle lead round nose (LR LRN) bullets, with nominal masses of 2.6 g (40 gr), impacting at a minimum velocity of 320 m/s (1050 ft/s) or less, and against .380 ACP full metal jacketed round nose (FMJ RN), with nominal masses of 6.2 g (95 gr), impacting at a minimum velocity of 312 m/s (1025 ft/s) or less. Type I body armor is light. This is the minimum level of protection every officer should have, and the armor should be routinely worn at all times while on duty. Type I body armor was the armor issued during the NIJ demonstration project in the mid-1970s. Most agencies today, however, because of increasing threats, opt for a higher level of protection.Type II-A (9mm; .40 S&W)
This armor protects against 9mm full metal jacketed round nose (FMJ RN) bullets, with nominal masses of 8.0 g (124 gr), impacting at a minimum velocity of 332 m/s (1090 ft/s) or less, and .40 S&W caliber full metal jacketed (FMJ) bullets, with nominal masses of 11.7 g (180 gr), impacting at a minimum velocity of 312 m/s (1025 ft/s) or less. It also provides protection against Type I threats. Type II-A body armor is well suited for full-time use by police departments, particularly those seeking protection for their officers from lower velocity 9mm and 40 S&W ammunition.Type II (9mm; .357 Magnum)
This armor protects against 9mm full metal jacketed round nose (FMJ RN) bullets, with nominal masses of 8.0 g (124 gr), impacting at a minimum velocity of 358 m/s (1175 ft/s) or less, and .357 Magnum jacketed soft point (JSP) bullets, with nominal masses of 10.2 g (158 gr), impacting at a minimum velocity of 427 m/s (1400 ft/s) or less. It also provides protection against Type I and Type IIA threats. Type II body armor is heavier and more bulky than either Types I or II-A. It is worn full time by officers seeking protection against higher velocity .357 Magnum and 9mm ammunition.Type III-A (High Velocity 9mm; .44 Magnum)
This armor protects against 9mm full metal jacketed round nose (FJM RN) bullets, with nominal masses of 8.0 g (124 gr), impacting at a minimum velocity of 427 m/s (1400 ft/s) or less, and .44 Magnum jacketed hollow point (JHP) bullets, with nominal masses of 15.6 g (240 gr), impacting at a minimum velocity of 427 m/s (1400 ft/s) or less. It also provides protection against most handgun threats, as well as the Type I, II-A, and II threats. Type III-A body armor provides the highest level of protection currently available from concealable body armor and is generally suitable for routine wear in many situations. However, users located in hot, humid climates may need to evaluate the use of Type III-A armor carefully.Type III (Rifles)
This armor protects against 7.62mm full metal jacketed (FMJ) bullets (U.S. military designation M80), with nominal masses of 9.6 g (148 gr), impacting at a minimum velocity of 838 m/s (2750 ft/s) or less. It also provides protection against Type I through III-A threats. Type III body armor is clearly intended only for tactical situations when the threat warrants such protection, such as barricade confrontations involving sporting rifles.Type IV (Armor Piercing Rifle)
This armor protects against .30 caliber armor piercing (AP) bullets (U.S. military designation M2 AP), with nominal masses of 10.8 g (166 gr), impacting at a minimum velocity of 869 m/s (2850 ft/s) or less. It also provides at least single-hit protection against the Type I through III threats. Type IV body armor provides the highest level of protection currently available. Because this armor is intended to resist “armor piercing” bullets, it often uses ceramic materials. Such materials are brittle in nature and may provide only single-shot protection, since the ceramic tends to break up when struck. As with Type III armor, Type IV armor is clearly intended only for tactical situations when the threat warrants such protection.
Off the Grid News offers some additional items to consider before purchasing body armor:
At a minimum, the vest you purchase should have the ability to accept hard plates, and that usually means purchasing exposed armor. Exposed armor like military IBA and IOTV vests (and clones) as well as plate-carrier-type systems have some serious advantages for the wearer. For starters, they are usually designed to by much tougher externally and use fabrics on the outside like 1000 denier nylon – ultra strong. They also accept hard plates for the front and back, and some models accept side plates. These vests and plate carriers are also usually equipped with MOLLE loops so you can add ammunition and sustainment pouches to the vest, giving you a full load out at your fingertips. Accessories are also widely available— things that take protection to the next level such as collar yokes and groin protectors and clever features like pull releases to drop the armor in the event of an emergency.
If you’ve got the preparedness basics covered, body armor should be your next serious consideration. When your enemy is shooting back there is a good possibility someone you love can be seriously injured or killed. While body armor is not going to provide 100% protection, it is a force multiplier that can certainly give you, your family and friends a much better chance of repelling an attack. As we saw with the 1997 bank robbery, body armor can give you the ability to take a lickin’ and keep on kickin’, while the enemy at the gates may not have such a benefit. Additionally, in a collapse scenario there will be no doctors or emergency rooms, so even bullet wounds that are survivable with modern hospital care can quickly become deadly.
Give me my IBA FIRST BIATCHES!!!!!!!
Nice work, McLovin! Your prize package is in the mail. Please enjoy the battery-powered battery charger, the dehydrated water and the freeze-dried sushi!
What happend to the fireproof matches?
Great, NOW mac starts giving out prize packets for first. I love freeze dried sushi, and I can’t afford freezr dried water. KEVIN= SHTFPLAN “FIRST” record holder.
See, I did not do that the other day. There just seemed like there were better things to say than “first!” C’mon folks..
Hey guys & gals,
For what its worth, I have found this article to be very timely. As suggested in the video i bought from http://bulletproofme.com/Bullet_proof_Vests_Catalog.shtml
Just yesterday I bought a police surplus/refurbished level II vest with a soft trauma pad and the wicking undershirts. Measured before hand, the customer service guy was great, and helped confirm my measurements and helped me decide what I needed based on my needs. It will be here this Saturday. I have almost all other peeps handled, getting 55 gallon water barrel this week.
Pup
USPALM Defender owner here, $200.00 is all they cost!
Ferfal is very adamant about having body armor. He puts it high on the priority list
I’m sure most of you know who he is…the surviving in Argentina guy…
Aim for the groin. They will wish you shot them in the head. Assault with a deadly weapon is easier to beat at trial than having pictures of a corpse.
Be sure to tell the jury that you believed your life and the life of your family was at stake, pointing out that it was a defensive shot only, and that if your wanted to kill him you would have shot that blue helmeted jackboot in the head.
PS: The guy or gal with the most blue helmets are the game is over wins!
Do they make a bullet proof cup??? LOL.
Just saying….
We had a shoot at my place on Sunday. My 11 year old was dinging a UN peacekeeper target (we call him Dieter) at 200yds with a 20″ AR-15. One of the proudest momenets of my life (snif, snif). 🙂
We don’t use blue helmets on them though. I promise, once anyone starts shooting at them in earnest, they’ll put a camo cover over that baby blue and you’ll have to shoot them laying prone too. Even UN troops aren’t stupid enough to stand there and let you shoot them.
Anybody know the protection the blue helmets offer?
To answer the Blue helmets question. Blue helmets offer them protection in situations where the local parties to hostilities have not yet decided that the UN sucks and their peacekeepers need to die. It differentiates them from the local forces and identifies them where the UN’s authority has been submitted to by the populace (woe for them).
Realize though that UN Peacekeepers have historically been used mostly as a police type force. If there is real fighting going on and ground needs to be taken, they send US or other troops working under their own flag rather than Blue Helmets, cause the burocratic way the UN administers things gets people killed.
When I was in the USMC in the ’90’s NO ONE wanted to server under UN command period.
I’m kind of up in the air about it – here’s why:
Con:
===
* If you’re in a firefight and not behind any sort of cover in the first place, you’re pretty much begging to get killed no matter how thick that vest happens to be. Thing is, you’re going to put your torso behind that cover first and foremost.
* most armor covers a portion of your torso, and, well, that’s about it. It won’t protect you from head-shots, shots to your thighs (can you say “femoral artery”? Sure you can!), your shoulders, etc.
* Armor slows down *most* bullets, but I can guarantee you that if you were shot at with a .338 Win Mag at less than 50 yards, that armor, IF IT ACTUALLY HELD UP, would crack a few ribs and knock you to the ground, out of wind. Don’t ask what a .50 BMG would do to you, armor or not. This in turn will render you quite useless for however long it takes for the attacker to run up and put a round in your skull.
* Good luck running, working, or etc. in armor that’s sufficient to stop the ugly stuff.
* I can spend the money on bigger/better firearms and ammunition – that is, weapons capable of penetrating most armor.
Pro:
===
* If you’re caught unawares and shot by some wannabe sniper or some chump with a .38, it can save your ass (okay, your torso), which is better than how you would fare without it.
* It helps stop the stray stuff (shrapnel, mostly).
* You can use it to swaddle the really important small stuff, protecting it from gunfire.
* In a pinch, it’ll protect a baby quite well – head to toe.
* got a misfire? Toss the vest over the suspect round.
But like I said… kind of in the air on the whole concept.
New here… Good to be around like minded people.
Im not a fan of body armor because its cumbersome. It will/can save your life, but, I prefer not to wear it.
I am sure there have been talks on the site about who we will be fighting, referring to zombies of course, and statistical theories to support it. However, I chose to live in an are that I think about 10% of the zombies will be dedicated to bad things and 50% are armed and will fight. Therefore, I am gonna pass on body armor.
I didnt wear a sappy plate in Iraq or afgh, not gonna start now.
Well, OQ, I must say you just hit this on the head. very good points. The topic of personal armor is very controversial. even among professionals we have our disagreements about it. it always come down to simple preference – better protection vs better mobility and concealment. I go always for the latter. but since it is very controversial I will not give any advice. I remember writing something on the armor some time ago in the posts here, and I will repeat myself I guess.
I’d trade armor for mobility anyday anytime. but that just me. the more armor you put on yourself the more you become comparable to a fixed position. and the fixed position is always easy to storm (provided that the stormer knows what he is doing)
It is possible for one man to shoot entire platoon to pieces, but only if that man is agile and constantly maneuvering. “dog leg” maneuver all the time and keep doing unpredictable moves. know your ground and use it to your advantage. don’t go gung ho on armed platoon sized group in the open! use cover, never stay in one firing position longer than 30 sec. shoot one from the front, run away, make three 90 degree turns and come on their flank.
reload, repeat, cash in…
I prefer not to where a vest. Mobility and the grace of God. When it is your time, it is your time.
@armed to the teeth- Welcome brother. Unfortunately most of us are no longer “armed to the teeth” due to-
boating accidents (a swimming kitten was the cause of mine)
fishing trip misfortunes (one poor guy actually had his wife think his riffle was a fishing rod and dropped it in a lake)
cannoe tragedies
People leaving guns on the roofs of their cars and driving away.
The list goes on and on and on and on, and are public record here in the comment section of shtfplan.
Thanks, Kevin. Im sure there a lot of people that have been negatively affected by swimming kittens, large bodies of water and velocity. Thats why I have several extra guns.
You know? Now that I think about it, I’d happily trade in two sets of body armor in exchange for a well-built Ghillie suit. I think the protection level would be better in most situations out in my neck of the woods.
You know the old joke about the man who invented the bullet proof vest.
He drags his wife into the garage and says “we are going to be rich” I invented a new revolutionary product and every one who shoots will want one.
He puts on the vest and hands his wife a revolver and says “go ahead and shoot me.
She takes aim and shoots him in the head.
She says. Hmmm you are right Im gonna be rich.
Michelle, You’re absolutely correct:he did mention it as a priority. The biggest drawbacks, unfortunately, are those things don’t come cheap and they have to be custom fitted to wear them right. Definitely worth saving for, however.
The other drawback is the weight. A type III with plates is extremely heavy. That hardship increases geometrically over uneven terrain and at altitude. You MUST train wearing the armor, move, shoot, etc. Somebody mentioned running,/ working etc. in armor. Not for long, that’s for sure.
Additionally armor will slowdown your movement to your BOL. While saving for your armor, try hiking with your established load out plus forty pounds of extra dead weight. Just to see how far you can get and over how long a time. You will find you will need extra water as well which adds more weight.
If you go with a plate carrier, which I recommend, get the carrier first so you can train with it on to get an idea of how it will affect your cheek weld and sight picture.
I’m just sayin.
I’m Mclovin it!!!!hahahahahaha…1st again….keep em pissed….hahahahahaha
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tx4dM5KoqU0 Being “first is an inside job, “how dare you”!!
hahahahaha……thumbs up Kevin
Fool.
Good Job Buddy!
Be sure to check your local laws for restrictions on body armor.
Kevlar’s expiration date has to do with manufacturer liability not loss of protection.
Check eBay and Craig’s list for deals!
Agreed, ebay is a great source for plates. Do your homework as they swing in price drastically from type (level) to seller. They are also heavy so look for free shipping. I think I got a decent deal on the first plate, and was happy with it so I order again from the same seller.
PS – and I’ll also add that you need to keep in mind what you actually intend on doing. Front and back plates are about 8-9 pounds each and if you’re forced to bug out that’s 16lbs of additional weight alone – not counting the carrier and defensive items or pack.
It’s also important to understand what running with plates does to your mobility. For example, if you’re using a standard pistol holster at the hip many times it may interfere with your plate carrier and you’ll want to move to using a leg-drop style holster. Many things to consider and hope that you’ll never have to use.
And another thing – be sure that you aren’t buying just a “carrier” because carriers have no protective linings or plates, it is just a shell!
I have a different take on this as opposed to the norm. “Fuck” the armor, if it’s my time to get off of this rock and stop a quick one, so be it. If Spirit sees fit that it’s my time to get out of here, who am I to argue? I believe we are all instruments/tools in one form or another to be used as Spirit sees fit. There is peace and light on the other side. We must endure this plane of existence in order to elevate to a higher plane. When the time is near, don’t be afraid, for only those with evil in their hearts will fear this, welcome the tunnel of light. For there is only an unimagined peace and tranquility on the other side. Only then we will know the secrets. Up until then it’s only a guess.
Was it Patten that said ” make the enemy die for his country”?
“The object of war is not to die for your country but to make the other bastard die for his.”
— General George Patton
First heard this quote when a fellow recruit was asked why he enlisted and he responded to die for my country (puke!).
Then the sarge responded with Pattons quote fuckin priceless.
Then why bother with survival prep at all if that is your view?
Just be ready to die, that is easy and requires little to no effort or cost.
Body Armor-
An indication that Collapse has finally occurred. All out war in the streets. Not a happy scene. Exit, stage right.
Mac…Nice to have you back today.
Thanks Tina — Limited internet access in the desert yesterday 🙂
You… were… in… THE DESERT??? …and… you… CAME BACK???
Good for us. Bad for you. I’ve been out in the desert a couple times in my life. I was REALLY hard to come back. NO PEOPLE! NO HGHWAYS! NO GOVERNMENT!
For a country boy like me, its like nirvana.
But, lucky for us, we’ve got you back. Thanks for everything.
Was thinking the same thing, I was going thru withdrawals for a bit. And when he comes back an article I can sink my teeth into at that =)
US Palm has some pretty good deals
The two gunmen in the “Hollywood ’97” event might be considered “Heros” if their escapade took place in 2012 at a bank on Wall Street, considering who their “foes” might be.
Interesting though, that no one was killed in that fire fight, other than the two instigators.
Wrong, wrong, wrong. We’re a nation of laws not men. Even if the laws are being bent to a breaking point.
I agree, but in the U.S. now a days, things are so much different than they used to be. Now one can break a law, cry around about the injustices of the system, blah, blah, blah and next thing you know they are rewarded with a book or movie. Or appear on 20 talk shows. In our society any more, we reward bad behavior. I just don’t get it…. crazy!!!
North Hollywood shootout changed many things that day. It was part of the reason for many police departments to becoming more militarized. Seems to me that they did no one a favor.
This system was already heading in that direction. This particular event gave them carte blanche to put it into overdrive. Perfect example of: “Problem, Reaction, Solution”. When I watched this on TV back then, I felt “indifferent” to the whole drama.
Today, I’m not sure who I’d be pulling for in a similar scenario. But one better believe, the time is coming when there will be a standoff and both sides will loose many. A criminal is a criminal, no matter what side of the law he or she is on. And corruption infects both sides, on a massive scale. If someone is violating the Constitution, doesn’t matter what side they’re on, eventually, one way or another, they get what’s coming to them. And I’ll support those who stand by the Constitution, whether they are wearing a Badge or whether they are standing up against a Badge.
That’s why there will soon come a day when these “SWATroids are going to encounter some nasty ‘fed up with the bullshit and determined to get even’ resistance, toting some heavy duty firepower on a scale that will dwarf the ’97 hollywood production.
That’s right. Prolly when the Regime tries to arrest Anne Barnhardt.
Anyone who relies on full automatic fire in a close in fight and not marksmanship deserves to die!
True, spray and pray never works, except in movies and artillery.
Aimed fire is ALWAYS superior in effect.
The police were very lucky that day. The 2 idiots didn’t know anything about shoot and scoot. It was more of a suicide by cop situation, but the police weren’t prepared.
“Interesting though, that no one was killed in that fire fight, other than the two instigators.”
Regardless who is on the trigger (I’m certainly not taking up for the bank robbing criminals) firepower has advantages but in the end it’s hits that count. In short order the LAPD shotguns should have been aimed at the criminals feet literally like the fabled Achilles Heel.
That’s what we say a lot… if they are wearing protection, aim for another vulnerable exposed area. Feet are always exposed. I guarantee that will bring them down and then shoot, shoot, shoot….
Well pilgram, we real American’s don’t need body armor, because the bullets just bounce off our chests!
I was a Medic in the service, later became an O.R. Tech. The base I was stationed at received fire, but I never returned any.
I suppose if/when the SHTF I’ll be patching folks up with my Mossberg 590A1 at-the-ready.
Good article
I live in the Rockies. I’m not going to be using armor because of the heat, dehydration. Camo will be my armor.
Body armor is like any other tool in the chest (no pun intended) use it when it’s needed, but always remember mobility is survivability.
2Cr 6:7 By the word of truth, by the power of God, by the armour of righteousness on the right hand and on the left,…..
Doesn’t matter.
The police and the military will just clean out any survivors when they come out from their bungholes to retake over the society.
They have better weapons than any body armor can withstand.
@Comenius, you are sooooo right. The folks who will do this to America have had since 1917 to train for what’s coming. They control 1/3 of the Earth’s people, including 1 billion Chinese. Red Dawn is here and now.
Anything we American Preppers think of has been tried and countered many times before by “The State” and “The Party”. Save a spot for me in the Gulag, O.K?
Its a pussy party, its futile to resist the borg,lol.
“They have better weapons than any body armor can withstand.”
Just look at the two current wars to show what that really means. Pull your pantys up and join the men.
Comenius and Auntie Commie, no disrespect but I’d rather be in a cold grave or my bones bleached by the sun than to share my gruel in a cell with either one of you.
Not sure if that was sarcasm or not, but honestly?
All you have to do is wait ’em out and stay out of their way. Once collapse begins, it will complete its fall.
Let’s take a peek at North Korea, which only manages to continue as it is because of massive subsidies from, well, the rest of the planet. Without that massive humanitarian aid, it would have collapsed within two years.
Once things become scarce, and the riots really begin, the soldiers trying to hold the masses back will be outnumbered, and they’ll be too pre-occupied with their own families to hang around at post for too long.
At that point the survivors will be offered what’s left of the old world (technology, ag, guns, ammmo, “a life”) in order to get on board and oppress their fellow survivors. A plea will be made to their childrens’ futures. So watch out for the Uncle Toms.
I ain’t evacuating and I ain’t watching it on the boob tube. I will be an active participant. If nothing else, go and dish out some payback to those that caused this nonsense.
Look what happened to the police at Katrina, most have family and shit, most wont be bothering with you.
Yeah, most took care of their families instead of being on duty. If I remember correctly, there was a lot of stink over that….
On a side note, we watched the movie “The Crazies” and there was a part where the military was taking over this town due to weapons chemical spill,of course the locals had no idea, and the young military guys had orders shoot to kill because of infection. The military guys had no idea what state they were in or what was going on except to follow orders, that was until the local sheriff set one soldier straight. But still, the sheriff had no control what so ever.
Any way , the moral of the story is when the time comes, these young soldiers will probably be told some bullshit story of a dire situation in a certain area and if told to shoot, they will because they are trained to follow orders and not ask the why…. it’s not their fault, but the military commanders who mislead them in order to achieve the ultimate goal, what ever that may be.
P.S. I fully support and respect all the branches of the military.
It’s the higher ups’ that manipulates what the military is used for and where. [secret agenda]
I agree squirt. Most troops will be fighting in states other than their own, and told their families are ok.
That’s why the British had the Gurkhas to do the dirty job. Tough Himalayan fellows, giving no quarters to friends and foe. They know their family will be more or less safe in the Himalayas, so they killed without impunity. They knew nobody will venture all the way to their f_king mountains to avenge them, and even if someone was adventurous enough to do that, the would-be Gurkha tykes would take good care of him.
favorite Gurkha anecdote, and a true story. Happened during early formation of a Gurkha paratroop unit in India, c. 1943.
Brit officer: “you’ll be jumping out of planes, about 500 feet altitude”
Gurkha officer: “make it 300′, that way more of us will survive when we hit the ground”
Brit officer: “parachutes. You’ll be wearing parachutes”
Gurkha officer: “paracfhutes?”
Not ALL the Katrina boys went home. Remember the 5 cops that shot the innocent people trying to cross the bridge. MMMMMMMMMM…unarmed citizens…MMMMMMMMMM
10 uniformed armed men can stop 10,000 unarmed civilians.
Shoot and scoot. Remember the phrase. …and watch for drones overhead.
“They have better weapons than any body armor can withstand.”
Agreed. However I think the purpose behind body armor, (at least why I own some) is for Joe Public and not battling the military. I can potentially see its use in having to relocate (bug out) and providing a little (notice I said little) bit of defense. Or if I’m forced to bug in and crime rises so much I have small groups trying to ransack my block. It’s heavy and it will be a game time decision if I bug out wearing it or not when I take in to consideration everything else that’s going on.
That is a totally defeatist attitude. Heads, extremities, groins are not protected. Precision shots will work so get your ass out and practice. If your gonna die do it standing up and taking as many as you can with you or you can live your miserable life on your knees groveling for a morsel of sustenance. Grow a pair and wake up as you have a choice to whether your family lives and dies with freedom as their goal or servitude. Ain’t that hard to figure out unless you don’t understand your rights are granted by the Creator and not the gov’t.
There are Many that are already defeated, I say to Hell with Body Armor,take those asshats out the Hard Way. what the hell you wanna Live forever? Semper Fi
If it’s gone that far and you’re still in a hole you deserve what you get. Again if it gets that far and you can’t adapt to a counter insurgency mentality well than your just f—ed.
When in doubt attack!
Two of my favorite quotes from a person I admire immensely are:
“My religeous beliefs teaches me to be safe in battle as in bed. God has fixed my time of death. I do not concern myself about that, but to be ready, no matter when it overtakes me”.
“When war does come, my advice is to draw the sword and throw away the scabbard.”
-Thomas (Stonewall) Jackson
T Jackson is my personal hero. Great man, Great General and I try to live according to the first quote. I tell people all the time, it does not matter whether you are in the car, at home, in a plane or on the battle field, you day is appointed by God. Once you set your mind to that standard then you can stand in the midst of battle and not worry if you are shot or not.
Shot by his own men, good job.
Yeah Comenius, and it still goes on (killed by friendy fire) even today.
Not always, besides they will be hugely outnumbered. They would tactically need to establish zones of control from which to operate before they could do that. Here in the Rockies it will be an uphill fight for them. They can have Denver, who would want it anyway.
Additionally, some of us have better weapons than body armor can withstand so caution is advised when trying to “retake” some of us.
I have seen a couple stories over the past year or so where people were arrested for possessing body armor, it blew my mind, but I guess I shouldn’t have been surprised… Keep it well hidden until you need it!!!
It seems TPTB want to be able to arrest people for all sorts of things these days.
They are working on making it ILLEGAL for children to work on family farms.
“The Department of Labor is poised to put the finishing touches on a rule that would apply child-labor laws to children (under age 18) working on family farms,
prohibiting them from performing a list of jobs on their own families’ land.”
(dailycaller.com/2012/04/25/rural-kids-parents-angry-about-labor-dept-rule-banning-farm-chores/)
I wonder what duties Obama’s new ‘Atrocities Czar’ will include.
Direct link…
http://dailycaller.com/2012/04/25/rural-kids-parents-angry-about-labor-dept-rule-banning-farm-chores/
KY Mom
There realy does seem to be a full out offensive on US family/small farmers at the mo. It’s a slow, more sophisticated way of repeating Stalin’s success with collectivisation except with Monsanto et all instead of the communist party at the helm.
Here in the UK our compete dependence on food imports scares me.
Food security = people’s basic survival in my eyes.
My son’s dad was a sniper in his youth -the military deploys those guys against you and all the armour in the word won’t save you as they’ll aim for your eyeball if need be. Any garment you purchase will have a weak spot somewhere in order to allow you to move – skilled personnel are trained to know those weak spots, despite any salesman’s claims.
Buy it but don’t rely on it in all situations, it won’t make you invincible against a really skilled marksman. A tactical retreat is often a smart move as a dead “hero” is still dead.
I agree with you except if it is a real SHTF scenario where are you going to retreat to? your hole in the ground? your farm in rural nowhere? It isn’t like you have a base of operations where reinforcements are waiting? most of us will be in our own Alamo and only a few will survive. I do get the whole live to fight another day though. So in my opinion all points are moot.
lonelonmum,
I agree TBTB are in full offensive on the US family/small farmers.
All I can think of is, “Control the food, then you control the population.”
Take care.
KY Mom
i live in south west floridaA, they will take U 2 jail for anything<< and I mean Anything,,, and I mean anything!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Well hidden until you need it? The “when” you are referring to and the only time body armor is clearly called for is when you are going on the offensive.
Some years back the Democrats were trying to ban civilian ownership of body armor, the NRA stopped them. That is why I think any prepper or any other American who believes in his or her right to self-defense must support those who are fighting for that right, because it hangs by a thread.
http://gunowners.org/
http://www.nrahq.org/
Can you think of a more purely defensive item?
My main body armor is a firm belief in the Constitution. It’s just a thin piece of paper and won’t stop much. But it does provide for another generation of resisters. And another, and another….I’m teaching it to my nearly 3 yr old grandson. His dad and (almost) all his aunts and uncles already have it. We’ll keep handing it down until it is someday respected again.
Side note: in spite of what Gov/Corp might tell you, that same piece of paper also works well as a permit for firearms.
Well written and heart felt. I suppose that I would add my old Geneva Study Bible to your list. Psalm 91
explain how to do this? I would like to know
A necessary exercise, passing down the concepts of freedom to future generations but I prefer ceramic SAPI multi-impact plates for protection.
If you are dead, you will not be education anyone about the Constitution.
is it just me
or do others find it kind of sad
that things are now to the point
that Americans are discussing the need
to purchase body armor ??
sad sad commentary on the downward trajectory of our country
but it is our new reality isn’t it ?
Body armor is a “sales pitch” that benefits THOSE SELLING IT. Firearms, plenty of ammo, and most importantly…the ability to HIT WHAT YOU ARE SHOOTING AT. That “formula” will “win-the-day” in nothing but underwear and flip flops. Don’t “buy” into false security when due diligence will more than suffice. IMO.
Besides, appropriate “cover” will beat “body armor” everytime. It ain’t fireproof, artillery proof, or a “magic replacement” for guns, ability, and guts.
There are body armor scams, i.e., low quality, out there to be sure but good armor will keep that pesky 5.56mm projectile from roaming around your organs, that is a BENEFIT.
If you only plan on playing defense, you may be right. How many nations, people, sports teams, etc., do you know who “won” by only playing defense? Go with the underwear and flip flops, you’ll be wearing them for eternity. I’ll be the one burying you after the fight.
At some point we must take the fight to the oppressor, that will require body armor if survival is one of your requirements. I don’t mind dying in the fight but I’m not going out of my way to make it easy for them.
I think all of you should read this.
Connecting the dots.
The coming chaos from the Obama-Soertoro playbook
http://www.canadafreepress.com/index.php/article/46200
Mac, thanks for this statement “if you’re engaged in a real life or death scenario your target will be moving.” It brought to mind a great training method my father taught me for moving targets.
End result, if it runs it’s either meat on the table or a body in a bag!
Here is what you need for moving targets:
1 old car tire you were about to throw away
Duck tape
Sheets of 22”x28” white cardboard from Staples, Newspaper works ok.
Cut the sheets in half – 22×16, or just tape the newspaper in the tire.
Paint black, spray black 4 “ circle or glue shoot n see targets on the center of the white board /newspaper (represents vital organs). Position and attach in the center of the tire with duck tape.
THINK SAFETY!!!!!
If there is a hill in your target area, let the tire roll down the hill, with safe distances, the shooter can attempt to hit the vital areas. With a safe backdrop (dirt hill) we used a 2×10 off the bed of a truck to roll the tires down and with safe shooting commands, we fired away. I recommend testing first without firing and determining speed by moving board length. Have fun and be SAFE!
Deer in the future will be running because of all these new hunters. Get ready. Your killing time has changed.
You can find out how far to lead with speed of object, distance through your own methods. We became proficient with open sights on a Browning 3006 semi auto. There ain’t much a man can’t fix with $700 and a 3006.
Y’all Beware! Old School.
I remember Jack O’Conner writing about this high-tech target system.
Tried this once with son. Need a pretty good hill.
All I need is a plate for my butt because if somebody comes shooting I am going the other way.
The rest of it is BS. If you consider things like that, you are far too focused on death and destruction than you are o living the life you have today.
You will not be afraid of the terror by night
or of the arrow that flies by day;
Of the pestilence that stalks in darkness, or of the destruction that lays waste at noon.
A thousand may fall at your side and ten thousand at your right hand, but it shall not approach you.
You will only look on with your eyes and see the recompense of the wicked.
GC, using your logic, then life insurance is too focused on death. What the article is intended to do is educate. I’ve said it before, this site is a classroom of info and ideas to help others. Personnally, I won’t be buying body armour yet others might.
As for running? You just became a moving target. It is better to duck and find out where the shooter is. You see, even the Lord provided armour but nothing for the back side(Eph.6:10-17).
When you run during a fire fight, you put others at risk. How? Others tend to follow. As for me and my house hold, we’ll serve the Lord and my fellow man. I’ll stay thecourse
No plan survives contact with the enemy but just out of curiosity, where were planning to run to? Unlike a first person shooter video game, there will not be any health packs or safe zones in this game. You fight and win or die, that is all there will be. By denying the realities of combat, you make yourself a willing victim.
This was a highly interesting article. I guess it really has to do with cost more than anything, because I would think that anyone would want to get the best possible protection available as long as it was not cumbersome. The way things are going everyone may have to body armor up like a turtle. I can remember those two bank robbers and the police just could not take them down. No one is ever likely to face off against more than a gang of 10-15 maximum, so these body armor protections devices to those that can afford it is an excellent additional survival tool for everyone.
Even when it happened, I wondered why somebody couldn’t get off a shotgun blast towards the face. It wouldn’t have killed, but it would have made them pause. I have heard a shotgun is sometimes used on lions. It won’t kill, but usually turns a charge.
Oh yea, now I remember, the police were more interested in protecting their own a**es than protecting citizenry. The cop willing to take a bullet to protect the public exists only on TV or in a movie.
I just reread the article and the one item that stood out was a previous article that I read about ONLY 3 million preppers in the United States. It just suddenly hit me like a ton of bricks that is less than 1%. What the hell is wrong with the American people? That number should be 30% of higher, or 100 million or more. It is awful to think about that 99% of the people are going to fall into the category of non-prepper. Even the prepper without body armor has something to eat, water to drink, and is prepared.
I personally would put body armor in the top 10 of important items, but even without it the prepper has multiples better chance of survival than the non-prepper. The non-prepper has no clue just how awful it is going to be without water, food, and the necessitites of life. 99% non-prepper, 99%! Can anyone explain to me what has happened to the American people. This is really freaking me out all of sudden how few (the good people that visit this site and other survival places) have any intelligence left in them.
Your handle says it all. You are informed, the 99% choose not to be!
America has been under a constant state of conditioning since the end of WW2. Many Psyop weapons developed in WW2 have been steadily employed on the American people, and the rest of Western civilization since then, and refined with each generation since.
It is not that most Americans choose to be unaware about these things. They have been conditioned to a state of apathy and ignorance, and for the most part, cowardice.
@ JustMe. Too true. What I cannot understand still is the mindset of most people about putting away food and other supplies that they are going to use anyway. Buying body armor to most people is like they are going to get shot at, and most people cannot even fathom this. Putting away food and having a good stocked pantry is something EVERYONE should do and usually can do. It just is not that difficult, people one or two generations ago use to do it all the time without even thinking about it. I can remember growing up and the parents of my friends always had plenty of food in the cupboards. NOW ?????????????????????????
Honestly, I have had extra coupons for food that would make an item almost free or free and have offered this to people out of being nice. That mindset of people can only take one most of the time even after me suggesting that they buy up as much as possible for later before the price goes up a lot. The response, we only need one right now. I would like to make that noise that Charlie Brown makes when Lucy pulls the football away and Charlie brown lands flat on his back. This mindset that they ONLY need one now is killing this country.
When I see something I can use and have a fist full of coupons, I go home with sacks of fantastic deals. If you are only out a few dollars and end up with about $50-$100 of goods that you can and will use, I say you just hit some good luck like winning something with the lottery. Most people just don’t see that tomorrow they might not have any food and go quite hungry.
Everybody should watch this sometime with super deals and see just how few people take advantage of these. You could have the store practically giving away some type of canned food and people will just not take advantage of it, even if there is overstocked items enough for everyone many times over. It is again a mindset that no one should ever hoard food. “Better yet, starve and suffer when there is none to be found on empty shelves after SHTF in severe fashion”.
It is incredible how people have become so afraid to offend anyone. It was so sad I was in back of this person using coupons and loading up on hundreds of canned goods, looking guilty because it was taking awhile. I told that person I admire them so much for thinking again and storing up for tomorrow and not to worry about the wait as it was a pleasure to see someone using their brain. I went on to say that those with plastic credit will be in deep trouble should they freeze all bank credit suddenly as this person was paying with cash. I said that those that don’t have food, water, and supplies at home are going to suffer excruciating pain for hunger because they were too ignorant to store up for bad times. The lady in back on me heard me, and if looks could kill I would not be writing this right now.
It is so rewarding to see a fellow person that takes preparing seriously and is trying to use coupons to try to save and get even more. It can make a bad day much better to see someone wise such as this, espedially when I see the vast majority of everybody else going through life without a clue what not being able to obtain food and water is going to be like, especially without some government coming to their rescue.
Everyone knows that only the evil rich 1% prepare. LOL
The rest are the rely on the government types or as I call them, casualties. Shooting them as they come for my supplies will be a great pastime.
Burying them is going to be a PITA. Ask yourself this how many will die from starvation and disease? If 99% are unprepared, disease is going to be the big problem, cholera, dysentery, plague. Funeral pyres will be the norm you can’t dig 300M graves.
The question here is…If you are not ex military or law enforcement will you have the nerve to kill someone? How will you know when to pull the trigger? Will you wait until you’re fired on? Maybe that will be too late.Until you are in that situation it will be hard to tell. I guess if your armor stops a bullet, it’s definitely time to fire your weapon.
you won’t believe me,, but I had dreams about this.. and in every dream ., I got the shotgun ; and fired,, never kill’d anyone yet ,, just scared the poo out of them,, and off they went
If anyone tries to “occupy” my property before or during SHTF, then I will assume they are trying to kill my wife and children. I may be a scrawny four eyed computer nerd, but I assure you that I will kill those sons of bitches without pausing to draw a breath because I will be defending my loved ones
Well, yes, there is always that hesitancy.
But once an action is implemented, the next action is not all that difficult.
At any rate, there will be a lot of hesitation which just may be good.
Best shoot out is the one avoided.
Hmmm…They are doing all of these things.
“If I wanted America to fail”
(www.youtube.com/watch?v=CZ-4gnNz0vc)
Here is a direct link…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CZ-4gnNz0vc
They are doing all those things! …and more.
We have a fake government that is stealing from us and killing us.
http://usavsus.info
http://michigandejure.org/n/
http://www.theforbiddenknowledge.com/hardtruth/running_america.htm
But it’s always been this way. Maybe there was a few years, like in the 1700s when “they” weren’t after us. However, all kinds of leaders with their slogans have rallied the “easily led” to take desired actions.
legal in Kalifornia…….. so far…..i HEARD the other day it’s being banned in canada
Being from Frostbite Falls Minnesota I understand why Canada has banned body armor. You see we wear so many layers of cloths up here that it really isn’t needed…even in the summer.
It’s not body armor; it’s just a stiff green vest.
I’ve seen body armor save a life. But, there are drawbacks. One, it is bulky and retards speedy movement. Believe me, when you need to hit the dirt or dive behind a rock or tree, you want to have done so, two seconds ago. Two, effective body armor is heavy. That means less ammo can be carried and that’s bad in a fire fight. So, it comes down to individual mental attitude and Situation and Terrain. You chose.
Force multipliers are an extremely good idea. If you are out to a gun shop, flea market, garage sale and you see single barrel shotguns for cheap, buy it. Buy many of them. With some construction string, some eye screws and some duct tape, you can defend a position and cover areas you can’t even see. Duct tape the shotgun to a tree, rock, sofa, chair, whatever; tie the string around the trigger, run it through eye screws for a clean pull, and have the end of the string at your position. You do not have to see an area, but rely on your hearing to know when someone/something is approaching your kill zone. You can cover as many positions in a 360 as you have guns for. Also, you can damn near shoot around corners with a shotgun if you “duckbill” the end of the barrel. Talk to someone who knows this method, or research it, to do it properly.
Another Alamo fantasy.
My money says you’ve never been in a firefight. Why, because people who have been, aren’t as quick to label experienced advice as fantasy.
The line about “speak to any solider who has been in a firefight” in the article made me laugh. Only a tiny fraction of the military ever comes into direct contact with the enemy. I’m positive that most men who have been in a firefight wish to forget it, rather than use it as a basis or motivation for passing out advice.
Right. I’ve got extra cash laying around for body armor… lets see, I laid it here somewhere… Oh crap. Now I remember I spent that the other day for that new claymore triggering device..
I have a different take on this as opposed to the norm. “Fuck” the armor, if it’s my time to get off of this rock and stop a quick one, so be it. If Spirit sees fit that it’s my time to get out of here, who am I to argue? I believe we are all instruments/tools in one form or another to be used as Spirit sees fit. There is peace and light on the other side. We must endure this plane of existence in order to elevate to a higher plane. When the time is near, don’t be afraid, for only those with evil in their hearts will fear this, welcome the tunnel of light. For there is only an unimagined peace and tranquility on the other side. Only then we will know the secrets. Up until then it’s only a guess.
You’ve convinced me. Should I or my family be attacked, I will assault the attacker with a homemade spear in the nude, while screaming, “THIS! IS! SPARTAAAAAA!”
Can’t type more, off to duct tape a steak knife onto a mop handle.
I would ask you reconsider your position. If Spirit has gotten you this far, perhaps you may have a longer-term duty to perform.
I was in a bad situation once, and a pacifist freind asked me if I did’nt believe God would protect me. I said “Yes, He did. He gave me the brains and courage to load my weapon.”
I think something was misinterpreted here. I didn’t say I was willing to just lie down and just catch one. Quite on the contrary, if and when I do, be assured my right finger will be deep in a trigger well and hot brass all around. If that “Golden BB” is meant to hits its mark, it will or it may not. It’s up to something more than the other marksman and his skill.
Very, very true!
I’ve thought about this as well, and have just bought rifle plates and a carrier, so far.
It’s very easy to get caught up in gun porn; a gun for every range and situation…but after a pistol and shotgun or carbine, armor should be next. Full set, including helmet.
It does you no good to have 10 guns as you can only fire one at a time. And if you eliminate your attackers, but take a hit and bleed out, or worse die because there is no more grid/medical service – did you win?
This needs to be my next purchase; just bought a Glock 27 to complement my 23 last month. A wiser choice would have been body armor.
Another point is, buy it while you still can. No constitutional right to armor – therefore it can be outlawed at any time. And the next madman that goes nuts in a McDonald’s and happens to be wearing body armor…be sure they will do all that they can to outlaw it.
Rafterman…not to argue with you(I get your point)but while the constitution may enumerate some rights,it gives/grants none…. if I were to refer to it concerning any rights Id cite the 9th and 10th as they state we have any rights we didnt specificy relinguish to the fed…its the govt whose rights are limited…not yours and mine,for sure they dont see it that way and are doing anything they feel like doing but the day of reckoning for them is fast approaching…I think you know all that but for the uninformed readers I wanted to point that out…thanks!
@reb- I love seeing the truth about the constitutional limits of our government being written on blogs. To bad the federal reserve,government “officials”, and people ignore and miss-understand it.
I wear a level 3a bomber jacket that doesn’t look anything like a vest. If it gains me a few seconds to get my concealed piece out during a mugging, so be it. I bet it will feel pretty light at that point. I also have several sets of Vietnam door gunner plate vests, and THOSE are heavy, but great in a static setting! The combat armor vest is heavy but level 5 plus the saapi plates. I believe most threats will be biologics with crappy handguns after my preps, NOT precision shooters with .338s or .50’s. Grow up kiddies, the rioters/looters will have Glocks at best. I’ve got 7-8 vested up friends with 5.56’s or .308’s and we shoot a minimum twice a month at my range. I’ll wear the vest, thanks. I get tired of the armchair Kommandos here…
I do not want to sound like an “armchair” general, but KNOW your enemy and NEVER underestimate them. All throughout history government armories(police and military) are raided during shtf(in yugo, almost everyone ended up with an ak), and as I type this, someone somwhere is heading out to the range with the riffle they bought yesterday. “glocks at best”??? Don’t kid yourself brother!!!
The “glocks at best” is the only part of your comment I disagree with,
Easy with that “armchair commandos” Bobby! you know not whom you might be talking to…
I could call you the same name just because your opinion differs from mine, but I don’t… because there are many factors weighing in both in “pro” and “con” side of this debate. I personally am against vests, and I ain’t no stinkin’ “armchair commando”. I might not be a SEAL type, but I ain’t civi either, so get your stuff together and be more polite.
Don’t get tired. Educate where you can. Where did you get the jacket? Sounds like something I would be interested in.
At the last gun-show, there was a guy selling armor. One of his items was a steel plate for a carrier, rated at level 4. I studied the plate- it was just a piece of cold-rolled steel, face hardened, run through a roller to give it an arc, rather rough-ground edges, and black spray paint. He wanted $250 for it…I suppose if you did’nt know what it was, it might seem like something exotic, but the price was a bit steep. But then again, if it was your only available option…
Condor, even though made in that huge Aisian factory country, make some very good plate-carrier vests, and MOLLE gear.
Todays *News Stories* are sponsored by…Chain Mail: The original body armor. Recommended by nearly a dozen surviving crusaders.
A Nike company bigwig is in trouble for paying bribes to some government officials. Evidently, the bribes were paid to the head of China’s state-run soccer team. Probably to get the team to use Nike shoes. Earlier reports of this story have been debunked. The bribes were paid to the Chinese, NOT to Mexicans. The payoff was for a shoe deal with the soccer team, NOT to get Mexico to move some of those Wal-Mart stores back to Seattle.
Brandon McCarthy, a pitcher for the Oakland A’s is complaining about the KISSCAM. The team uses it to show couples kisssing in the stands, and sometimes to show two men in an attempt to poke fun at the gays. McCarthy says it’s homophobic and he’s sick of it. Sorry to have to tell you this Brandon, but the whole idea was to get the camera OFF the mound while you’re pitching. And it’s not so much your poor performance. It’s that pink tu-tu you insist on wearing at every game. It just clashes so badly with the team colors…
One more story from the world of sports. Two NFL prospects (real names: Vontaze and Jayron- probably a couple of white guys fron Iowa. I haven’t seen a photo) have flunked a drug test before trying out at the NFL combine. Now that makes a whole lot of sense. I can hear the conversation they must have had before the tryout.
Vontaze: Look, buddy. We got 4 options in life. Stay in the ghetto on welfare; shoot somebody and go to prison; get shot while dealing;…OR: We take our God-given athletic skills and get rich in pro football.
Jayron: Okay, what you want to do?
Vontaze: Only sensible thing we can do. Get high then go to that NFL tryout.
A woman in Boulder, CO spilled yogurt on president Obamma the other day. She said it was an accident and the president took it all in stride. Turns out it wasn’t her fault, but it was no accident. Evidently a drunken secret service agent knocked it out of her hand when he tried to get tough with her. He kept shouting in a slurred voice “Fishty dollars ish too much for yogurrrrt.’
Oprah Winfrey is touring India, location of her 3rd annual “I Retired But I’m Never Leaving Television” special. The former talk show queen, known for her generosity, was moved to tears at the abject poverty she witnessed in Calcutta. A spokesperson said Winfrey has agreed to give away 125 new cars. One for every licensed driver in the country.
And finally, John Corzine said he had no idea where the money went, but apparently it’s been found. The investigator handling the bankruptcy for MF Global says he’s recovered almost all of the missing $1.6 billion from the failed company. He says about $300 million was sent to JP Morgan Chase banks in the UK. Another $300 million was scattered around in US banks….Oh, and then there’s the billion or so found in Corzines sock drawer at home.
Don’t forget Corzine is a top contributor to Obama – listed under the $500k “bundlers” on BHO’s campaign web site…a pardon isn’t that expensive these days…sorry OT.
As to body armor; I can’t afford it; if money were not an issue I’d buy it, but I’d rather spend my limited resources figuring out how to not get shot at in the first place.
I promise you that if get a shot at someone and put a 9mm in their chest and they dont fall, I am going to empty the rest of the clip in the vicinity of the head. You cant prep for everything.
I kind of “fell into” the 9mm trap a while back; meaning I started going toward the 45 and dropping the hi cap 9mm. Then I had my truck break down in the desert, 8 miles I had to walk out, and I ran out of 45’s killing those dam(n) rattle snakes. NEVER will I run out of ammo ago – I’m back to the 9mm’s and sold the 45’s.
you do know there are high capacity .45’s right?
just saying
Exactly right. With mag extensions I get 17 .45’s in my XDm.
Why waste rounds on snakes unless they are going to strike you and you cannot back away? Never shoot unless you have to, no reason to draw attention to yourself.
Your problem was fire discipline, not ammo load out.
Thats why you carry a 22Cal With Bird-Shot. one to the head and done, can carry many pockets of Snake Poison…Just Saying
Yep. And they won’t be shooting back, right tough guy???
legion, maybe you should read the whole post before you make sarcastic comments. I was being facetious. I cant afford a good set of body armor, and even if I could, my luck I would take a head shot anyways. But really, if things get that bad, even a shot to the arms and legs could be a death sentence without a well trained doctor around. Body armor is great, but you cant prep for everything.
Body armor is fine for the torso area. What about your head, arms and legs? A hit to a major artery and you bleed out anyway. As Net said, shoot and scoot. And as Hammerun says, if it’s my time to go, so be it. Better than getting killed by a drunk driver or falling off a ladder!
Body armor… positively ridiculous for 99.99% of people to even waste a moment thinking about it… unless your intention is to go on the offensive (police, swat, home invaders, revolutionaries, and so forth).
positively ridiculous for 99.99% of people? Have you ever read Ferfal’s website? Can you imagine what it will be like here if the economy goes into a tailspin?
IF? The economy is going down, Obama has seen to that. Offensive action will be required to reestablish the rule of law over those who plan to use the “opportunity”, never let a good crisis go to waste, to enslave us.
Body armor may be optional for those who will not be going on the offensive, but can still save your life. If you are too old, sick, feeble, etc, to survive the weight of the armor I agree with you, otherwise people should consider some variant of armor.
How many times have you seen a news report of kids shot in a drive by gang shooting who would have survived if they had armor? Same thing applies to the aftermath of what is coming.
If I buy car insurance and never get in a wreck is that ridiculous?
When it comes your time to die, be not like those whose hearts are filled with the fear of death, so that when their time comes they weep and pray for a little more time to live their lives over again in a different way. Sing your death song like a hero going home. Tecumseh
Amen!
Body armor sounds ok to me. But only after you are sre you have more then 6 month of food supplies. After your home can be turned into a fortified place, after you have enough weaponry, tools, fuel and seeds for the times to come and your bug out plan ready, body armor cab be good to have.
Make sure you have the things really necessary before you start with luxury items like a body armor.
Every time I run across body armor regardless of size I make crazy offers on it $5, 10, 15. The most I ever paid was $70. I also only buy level III, IIIA and plates. One question I always get when I buy anything smaller then XXL is what are you going to do with it. It’s fairly obvious it’s not going to fit me.
I buy it because I can use it for a lot of things. I have about 24 stichted together for a ballistic blanket. It can be used to fortify any shooting position quickly. I have some to cover the door panels in the car and to drape over the seat. Who said you had to just wear body armor? I think of body armor as the modern day sand bag. It’s also good to shroud, skirt and pad all your major joints, hips, shoulders, elbows, knees, etc.
I don’t worry much about the material because I do a lot of things with it that they will tell you not to do. The bottom line is I put layers between me and the incoming rounds and remember this, just because you have armor doesn’t mean the impact won’t break your bones. Lets all hope we don’t need it and 10 years from now the jokes on us. I pray that my family and I will be sitting around in the future saying silly grandpa, body armors for cops.
From what they tell me, if you get hit by a 30 cal. or bigger while wearing the best of body armor, it’s still about like stepping out in front of a car on the road. Look at the energy release charts on these rounds. At short range it doesn’t really matter if its FMJ, hollow point, boat tail or any other. You just don’t want to be on the receiving end of a high powered rifle, even if you had your wheaties and oatmeal this morning.
OK, but the energy gets expended in the armor, not your spleen.
Yes it will hurt but alive, uninjured and in pain beats dead every time. Plus your analysis looks only at direct fire projectiles. Keeping fragments out of you is just as important as bullets. Fragments do less damage per each but the cumulative effect of 20 fragments will provide the level of death as a .30cal projectile. Especially when no one is around to dig those fragment out of you.
Good article, my opinion is that the IIa is usable in most situations. It is fairly light and mobile so you will tend to use it more and more often than not it’s when you don’t think you’ll need it is when you will. Carjackings, muggings and going back and forth to work. You can always find a III and put it on over the IIa. The vest you will wear all of the time is the one that may save you.
checkout bulletproofme dot com level 3 in a new vest is not that thick and can be a force multiplier, also give you a huge tactical advantage. most pistol rounds and some riffle rounds will be stopped by this and give you the abilty to either GTFO or take those risky but some times necessary Still Stance Shot at an advancing threat.
Its not that bulky and it doesnt have “plates” its about 7mm thick and if fitted correctly you will get used to wearing it after a while.
there are always those moments when your not on your game, or even realize you could be under threat..at least this way you have a possible chance, at making it out of the fire fight alive.
Yes you can always get that leg shot or arm shot but your chances of dieing from that are much less than getting hit in the chest back or abomen, and that area is a big target to hit, why not protect it.
here is a senario your waiting out in the parking lot for your wife to come out of the store and 3 youths walk past your location , but once the know your not looking that rush your car and pull you out as one of them fires on you while they drive off in your car..you had little chance to respond and they figure your ob the ground shot..but lucky enough for you the shot hit your vest, and you know that the opportunity to either call 911 and report..or you have the option of teaching a lesson only a dead man can teach a perp.., and thats to in his eyes come back to life to fuck his world up.
let see..600 bucks for a nice .45..check
another 600$ to live to use it..priceless in my opinion
whats your life worth to you?
Any well trained gunny can place a shot outside the vest area…and how many perps will actually be wearing body armor in the first place?
Those (who know) follow the T method..
multiple shots across the forehead..
and down from there
guaranteed kill
and..
of course to the legs and feet to incapacitate..
over and out..
possee
Are you done taking a break from HALO? Tell your mommy you need more pot stickers. Leave the advice for those who are trained… you have no idea what you are talking about. Video games and most targets don’t really shoot back. Watch a REAL shootout sometime (they get caught on video once in a while) most people are hiding behind something and spraying and/or running for their lives. With a few super-trained tough guys like you, I could take over the world!!!
My grandson informed me that HALO is a popular video game…
and as not one who wastes time on video games..
but does spend every weekend at the local range
and does take advice there..from many seasoned veterans(USMC)well versed in shot placement
and also taught at USMC/SOI ..
I beg to differ..
unless you infer the Marines don’t know what they are talking about..
perhaps , since you know what halo is and what it portrays,you should continue playing in your mothers basement..
possee
I’m DYING to watch you take on a dozen motivated biologics moving and shooting back… you will be an EPIC fail. Stand REEEEAAAALLY still and crank that “T”! I’ll be the guy behind the tree with a semi-auto .308, a-thank-ya! That “T” method probably ROCKS on paper targets tho…
I’ve been trained to make the 1000m plus shot. Should I start using the possee “T” method there too???
Ya never know who you’re talkin to here!
ROFLMAO! Pin point shot placement on a moving target at 100yds, what a dreamer. I qualified as expert rifleman in ’72 and still couldn’t do that with 18 year old eyes. Now with my M203, well that’s a different story.
Poor possee, no one told him that they don’t have health packs, safe zones and unlimited ammo reloads in the real world. Sounds like paintball would be a step up for this guy. As I recall from the olden days of the Southeast Asia War Games, lead ball is much rougher sport.
I wonder how many T’s possee can make with some fin stabilized WP dropping around him?
Combat training proves other wise..
after a few rounds to center mass and no drop..aim for the head.. legs..knees..foot area..
mission accomplished!
then finish the job..
save your cash for preps and more ammo..
possee
@Patriot One,
Maybe one day our grandkids can play together and we teach them how to hunt and bait a hook.
Love the thought – Peace.
Y’all Beware!
In my opinion i’ll probably shy away from a vest in combat operations, too heavy for movement. Guerrilla warfare one carries ammo, basic tidbits, water. Lighter is better. Lots of movement.
Why is the scenario always a defense action on your house? That’s the last position u want to be in. It’s pretty much a dead end if every level of gov interagency has arrived. Shooting…also…With IED’s and other defense measures you’d incur casualities but you’ll be captured or killed eventually. Once the hammer falls and the Rubicon is crossed by the blood of innocents in a build up of government tyranny, always better for proactive measures in a guerrilla 4th gen warfare campaign with extreme violence of action on the ringleaders, enablers or lesser fair like the 4,000 IRS clowns scheduled to enforce Zero care just as an oh so very innocent example.
Guerrilla warfare you avoid direct conflict, non-linear approach, hit and run, etc. If you’re getting pinned down and getting fired on at 2 flanks which are becoming at 90 degrees to your position it’s not a dilemma you want to face or trading shots with SWAT or UN or foreign troops, etc. Forget that game. Surprise, surprise, surprise. Research kids.
The “always a defensive action at your house” thing you are referring to is what I call an “Alamo Fantasy”. A lot of people waste a lot of time daydreaming about a cataclysmic battle at their primary residence or their retreat in the woods.
Body armor makes sense if you are going on the attack, but it’s silly if your position is static or your posture is defensive. Armor is for good for offense, not so good for defense.
I quit having Alamo fantasies a long time ago. They are just silly and unproductive. The only thing I’d even consider in a post-SHTF defensive position (ie cabin in the woods) is an escape tunnel and/or diversionary pyrotechnics, either to flee or get myself into a truly superior firing position.
Guerrilla operators have the support of the local population, we will not. Those on the government dole will not be on our side. Besides do you have any idea how many hadji’s have been KIA in the last 11 years?
We have 2100 KIA, they have lost over 100,000. Body armor and superior firepower is deadly combination.
http://www.israeli-weapons.com/
I already outfitted my group with this guy’s product.
If there is anyone that knows about body armor, Its Israel. Being at war for 65 years usually gives you the step up on what is going to protect you and not.
I trust them with my life, and the guy sends remarkably fast.
Ok I know I am outta my legue here as being a chick and all but the whole body armor thing seems a lil silly to me. Here is why. If you have a couple a##holes coming to steal your stuff more then likely they are not prepped (thus needing to rob you) and do not have too much of a plan in their heads. Second would be militia, and they are soooo trained and will be more trained than we could phathom to take on us preppers. thirdley I believe there will be a tactical method to all of this. If army/police “invade” America the first place will be inner cities/ The round up of so many people, even considering the density will take a couple days to gather and transport. Now you must consider the populace of each large city. now they will move outward to suberbia whick will be a little harder than a city because of the yards that people will try to escape throught via they will be shot on site. Loaded up and transported to camps. Now we have left the rural outskirts of the cities. to gather everyone in small town that are scattered seems time consuming to me ( I am not trained in anything tactical so bear with me here) It would be easy, cost efficeint etc to just block roads in and out, no grocery deliveries, no water supplies, and a few strategic forest fires during a HAARP induces drought. That would pretty much take care of the”straglers” Army packs up moves on to cash in for their hard work and then move on to gaurd Camps, I think the main focus will be big cities and the poplulation is huge in those. If I wanted worker ants for me that is where I would hit hard, more bang for your buck so to speak. I would gather more in the next densly pop area then just wipe out the rest the fastest easiest way. Fire is still the best weapon to harm the masses in MHO. Another is disease. But you cut off the rural areas of water food, gas etc. it will be a short matter of time that people get sick starve etc on their very own. Simple fast effective. The other matter I want to address is the Biblical one, I am praying for a pre trib Rapture… before it really hits the fan I am banking on being caught up in the sky, but if I am sent to the gulags I will be hopefully be praising my Lord before all the evil doers that will be their. If God will grant me that strenght and courage!
You are totally correct. All TPTB have to do is cut off the water, and sit back and watch and waite. Their biggest problem with controlling an area (or people) after doing that, would be choosing what condiments to put on their ham sandwiches their having for lunch.
I disagree that cutting off rural areas will be effective. Food and to a lesser degree, water does not come from the cities, rather it flows TO the cities from the more rural areas. Those of us in rural areas need to be able to cut off the cities from food and water which we keep to ourselves. Then they will be one who need us just as it has always been. The military cannot control every small town and rural crossroad in America, the cities will become their prisons.
As for getting some of us in to a camp, come early and bring your lunch because it will be a long day. The government does not have the resources to send a helicopter gunship every time they want to lock someone up. Mass resistance is the key which means the ability to back up your resistance, make it so expensive they won’t want to try.
London Bridge Trading company makes absolute top notch carriers. Low profile, lightweight, comfortable and durable. Hands down the best carrier I’ve used. They’re not cheap and they may be backordered, but are well worth it. Eagle Industries is also high quality. BLACKHAWK! and TAG are usually overpriced. Voodoo Tactical and Condor have always been suspect for me with lower grade nylon and cheap stitching. I have a preference for lower profile carriers that allow greater range of motion and don’t interfere as much when shouldering a weapon.
For helmets I like the “Half Shell” style where the section of a MICH/ACH helmet that would cover your ears is cut out to allow room for earmuff style comms/earpro. Ops-Core and Crye Precision make excellent models, but United Shield makes a solid compromise at about 1/3 the cost.
I think the article is useful even for those of us who are only adequate with a gun; we need to be involved in equipping those we are expecting to protect us. I hear most LEOs right now don’t get full protection unless they’re SWAT. That’s just wrong. Quit paying for TVs in the prisons and put the best armor there is on the best of society. Certainly when SHTF I owe this much to anyone who is putting themselves at risk for me.
Train like you fight and fight like you train. Be comfortable moving, shooting and working in plates if you intend to used them.
use*
Mac
Why is it taking over 12 hours to moderate my previous comment above?
For a giggle you guys should read this – fencing built to keep Mexican immigrants from leaving the US ; )
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2012/apr/24/hurt-in-this-bad-economy-us-needs-border-fence-to-/
I’m hoping Smokie Okie will give us the benefit of his wisdom on the link above.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-SJ33qMRKFY Check this video out. “bulletproof shirt”. Guy gets shot point blank by a 38. They are made is south america, and are sold to government “officials” only(kinda like how they only sell the thor taser armor shirt to “officials”)
I’m sure that very, very few of the looters will have it. I think the biggest danger will come from big city police departments. Some of those people would have access to it.
Body armor has it’s place. It is difficult to get used to. It’s hot in the summer with armor and gear. I’ve tried vests and my gear in different configurations. It’s a good idea to try on the stuff you plan on wearing or carrying now. Some of you will come to realize that your shape no longer fits into the armor you bought some time ago. Good idea to lose weight and get in shape now.
Excelent point. Being in peak shape is more important than having body armour. Mobility and speed and concealment is more important in a SHTF scenario than being weighed down by armour.
Ive operated in environments, in the Military, where I’ve deployed places in the world, where body armour was impractical. If you’re vehicle mounted or in static positions, or conducting short, limited operations, body armour is OK. It’s fine in places like Iraq or Afghanistan where vehicle bourne weapon systems are close by or you can call in air or arty support and the ground you operating in, is vast, wide and sparse (I know, not all places in the Ghana are like that) However, most preppers don’t usually have the luxsuary of close air support, or the ability to call in mortar or arty fire.
Most preppers are going to be out on their own or have maybe a couple buddies to back them up. So stay mobile and light.
Your best bet is to ensure your static position is hardened. And most preppers are going to be static. Holed up where you’ve stored all you food ect. If you have to fight it out, better to fight from a well hidden, dug-in position than running around like some gung ho dreamer. Avoiding trouble and detection and staying out of the way is your best defence.
Vest are Ok, BUT they will not stop an arrow or knife blade. When a vest get wet they won’t stop a thing as small as a 22LR. You have to keep them dry. Take from me I was on a SWAT TEAM and even in cold weather in Norther Illinois you sweet, and you vest get wet. Try wearing one in the summer. Lot a good that dose.
This articles jives nicely with this one:
Desire to protect yourself from a stabbing, shooting? Slaves Need Not Apply.
http://www.survivalblogs.com/threads/desire-to-protect-yourself-from-a-stabbing-shooting-slaves-need-not-apply.679/
Canadian and Australian citizens are having their choices drastically limited.
The site has a great price on IIIA body armor. You’ll need to set up an account to get 20% off the price. $479. They also have other tactical gear and survival supplies.
https://www.patriotprovisions.com/category/view/277
If you knew anything about anatomy, you would want body armor. The areas that it protects are the ones that when hit are generally fatal even in a civilized situation.
Also, it seems common to talk about being an “expert marksman” and taking the other guy out before he gets you. When you are shooting at an adversary who is 75 yds away and sprinting to get to cover, our natural instinct is to shoot at the highest probabiliy area for a hit, which is without question the torso. Going for a headshot is a much, much lower probability for a hit. If you were the target and you are wearing armor, you are much more likely to survive.
If it didn’t work or wasn’t worth the money, our government wouldn’t have paid for our troops to wear it!
Body armour is very useful–it’s one of the main reasons that Western forces’ casualties in Afghanistan and Iraq were so low–but you can’t exactly go around doing your survival chores wearing Class IV armour all day long. The best armour is practical only for people who wear the stuff as part of their normal job, i.e. soldiers and paramilitary police.
Unfortunately, in the bigger picture, the best body armour favours the oppressors. It favours the people who are fighting at a time and place of their own choosing. It favours the people who can ride to battle in a helicopter or AFV. It favours the people who never have to conceal the fact that they’re wearing armour. It favours the people who can spend a lot of time and energy training to wear it. Body armour favours the garrison, not the guerrilla.
Of course everyone should try to get their hands on the best armour they can afford. That goes almost without saying. You might not be able to wear it when you most need it, but if you don’t have armour you definitely won’t be able to wear it!
However, the bigger problem is making sure you have the type of weapon, or type of ammunition, that can be counted on to penetrate the best body armour, regardless of where you hit him.
It’s all very fine to insist on better and better marksmanship. That’s true as far as it goes. But remember that such advice could have been given to medieval peasant, too. “Oh yeah those mounted armoured knights are no problem as long as you get them through the eye slit!”
If you accept advice like that, you’ll be giving up your crops and your daughters for an awfully long time.
The better advice to that medieval peasant would go like this: “get yourself a musket and you simply don’t need to concern yourself with what sort of armour that aristocratic fool is wearing. If he comes for your crops, you can put a nice big hole both through his armour and through him–and then you can keep the horse he rode in on!”
Some great points being made here. For those who think saving up food and such is the end all/be all, its not really. Just remember how much food can be obtained with a gun, not just from a hunting perspective, but a theft perspective, and what a target that makes you.
To go head to head with the any sort of “oppressors,” it gonna take alot more technology than an AR-15 and some body armor. Think advanced imaging (night vision/thermal). Not just the army has thermal imaging anymore, police do too. There is no way to escape from that unless there is a large body of cold water or underground shelter nearby. In this case, a single well-concealed marksman with a suppressed weapon and thermal imaging could easily take down an entire armed group at night without them evem being able to return a single shot.
We have the technology at our finger tips to avoid situations like this – body armor, accurate and reliable weapons, advanced imaging, etc – are all available to civilians, at least for now.
And, great point about the heavier firepower needed. Grandpa’s 243 isn’t gonna cut it if you are going up against the big boys. Think 338 Lapua and up
If a full IIIa vest and level IV plates are too bulky, run a front and back plate and take your chances. If the extra 20 lbs from this is too heavy, ya gotta hit the gym. No excuses. It’s possible to put together a rig like this for sub-$600 if you look around. The price of life is cheap…
Ok… can SOMEONE explain to me what you meant by dehydrated water, because in the literal sense, that is the dumbest thing I have ever heard. Dehydrated water is no longer water. It’s just Oxygen.
DeWayne: It’s the greatest product. Just add water to reconstitute. Dehydrated water has a bit shorter shelf-life than freeze-dried water.
Look folks, They hit what they can’t see!
Do NOT be in your home…Find a good overview hole and have you NVG and 50BMG with a good coomo plan to the home. Live in the mud, blood, and beer and WAIT! Look an a map to find the exact range and WAIT!
Practice, practice, practice…
If you stay in home get the Decoda 3000 and a good 3″ Magnum 12 ga. shootgun with thrple ought buck and WAIT.
sleep well and wait…
Hook up with other good shooters and plan ahead…
Did I say WAIT?