This article has be contributed by James Rawles’ Survival Blog and was written by J.M.
James Rawles is the author of the popular Patriots series of books on the topic of surviving in a post-collapse world, as well How to Survive the End of the World As We Know It. Follow his excellent commentary, news and regularly published preparedness tips and strategies at the Survival Blog Website.
It has happened. The event that we have all talked about for so many years has come to fruition. The banking and monetary system, after many years of bail-outs and market manipulations, has finally collapsed. Many have plans to “bug out” to the safety of their isolated retreat where they plan to hunker down and weather the financial tempest that surrounds them. I have to admit that this is probably the best short-term plan to survive, but what do you do when your supplies run out? What will the long-term solution be, until a new monetary system is established? How could someone position themselves to be part of the solution rather than waiting for the solution to come to them?
Several very knowledgeable people have discussed a great many topics regarding preparedness in case of an economic catastrophe in our country. Whether it is inflation, deflation, or stagflation, the economic impact on our currency could be severe. That is why, in tandem with all my preps, which includes a paid off, well-stocked retreat with a water filtration system, solar/wind power generators, fuel and farming gear, and all the necessary supplies, I have also positioned myself to act as an interim bank, mercantile, and co-op for day-to-day purchases, exchanges, and loans, until a new currency is established by the government.
There will probably be a period, albeit a short one (I’m guessing six months or so but maybe longer), where U.S. dollars will not be the preferred medium for exchange. I feel that some will barter directly for food with whatever goods or services they may have, but what does one do when they do not possess something that the other party covets or desires? It will be necessary for something to serve as a “store” of value.
The biggest problem, though, is that whatever is used will need to be available in several small denominations and be easily recognizable to all. People tend to gravitate towards the familiar. The closest thing to our old beloved dollar will be pre-65 coinage, recognizable .999 silver bars/coins, and our current 75/25 nickels and pre-82 pennies. Gold will also be coveted but only for larger purchase, in my opinion, as even a gram of gold will far exceed the purchase price of most goods needed for day-to-day living expenses.
After assessing the demographics surrounding my retreat, I discovered that I had about 1,000 people within a 10-mile radius. I then established what the current AVERAGE dollar amount is for Americans to have for cash-on-hand at any given time. After pouring over several statistical analyses regarding this issue, I’ve found that that number rests between $80 and $100. That basically means that for each person (man, woman, and child), you would need 4-5 ounces of silver or a gram and a half to two grams of gold for each person. Your base coinage values would be established at coinflation.com values.
The key to all this is to not just put aside one ounce and one gram increments of bullion. You need that dollar value to be reached with a diversified breakdown of coinage and bars that allow the populace to be able to make multiple purchases with their $80-$100 worth of currency. This is where 90% dimes, quarters, half dollars, fractional bullion, and quality-base coinage come into play. Let’s take my population of 1,000 persons as an example. To serve as the “bank” for that many people, I have put aside these denominations:
- 30 ounces of gold consisting of: (200) one gram bars, (50) 1/10 oz coins, (12) ¼ oz coins, (6) ½ oz coins, (10) 1 ounce coins, and one 100 gram bar.
- 3000 ounces of silver consisting of: 500 ounces of Premium bars ranging from 1-10 ounces, 750 ounces of Silver Eagles, 750 ounces of Premium Silver rounds (Engelhard, Johnson Matthey, Maples), $1,000 face of 90% coinage ($500 in dimes, $250 in quarters, and $250 in half dollars).
- $2500 of base coinage consisting of: $2000 in nickels and $500 in pre-82 pennies.
The above amounts are worth somewhere in the neighborhood of $100,000.00 at today’s “spot” value. That means, I am a little more than 10% above what I need to operate as an interim “bank”. That additional 10% will be necessary, as you still have to have additional liquidity to provide security for your “bank” and provide extra (float) money for those that wish to secure extra funds through collateralization or outright sale of their goods. People will still want “loans” to help get them through, and this will mean that if one wishes to act as a “bank”, they need to be prepared to lend and take in collateral for the loan, or be willing to act as a “mercantile” or “co-op”, as people will not have a lot of money but may also have goods that the “bank” can buy and then re-sell to others in the community.
You won’t be able to act as our current-day, money-grubbing, greedy banksters do. You will need to be a staple of the community– helping others and acting as a “conduit” for exchange in a noble manner. Anything else will lead to a good old-fashioned tar-and-feathering or worse…and rightfully so. You will still have to have excellent security, too, as banks have been, and always will be TARGETS. Do not take being a bank for your local community lightly. You are definitely breaching OPSEC in many ways by acting in such a manner. However, SOMEBODY needs to do it, but you better be damn sure that your neighbors are as committed and endeared to you as you are to helping them.
Another necessary item will be a VERY LARGE BUILDING with a stock yard to serve as your center for exchange. I would definitely recommend that you build it in such a way to house a myriad of goods and products. Everything from food, seeds, and livestock, to other material goods such as guns, ammo, and medical supplies will need to be stored there. You will also need, of course, a vault.
You’ll have to work hard, but being the center of exchange for a community has its benefits as well. When you are just a consumer, you eventually run out of money. When you are the bank/mercantile/co-op, you have continuous flow, and you can make a small amount on each transaction to be able to maintain and even grow your wealth…even in a bad time. This is not a license to fleece people by any means, but most people will not begrudge you a reasonable profit for the services you provide to the community, as long as you are compassionate, charitable, and friendly to all who patronize you.
Many will comment that putting yourself out there in such a manner is not responsible. Let me be clear: I do not recommend attempting this unless you have established yourself with people PRIOR to the “great reset”. Trying to do so when you are not integrated into the area would be foolish in my opinion, BUT, the potential to be “the bank” in your area is possible, if you lay the proper groundwork. When people know you, they tend to be more open to dealing with you. It is human nature to be suspicious of someone’s motives, if you are unfamiliar with them. When others in the area will vouch for your character, it can make all the difference in the world and can lead to strong relationships that can be of great use when things are difficult.
The reason for writing this article is not to show how someone can capitalize on other’s misfortunes but rather to show how we can be a part of the solution and be proactive in re-establishing commerce in our area rather than just waiting for civilization to restore itself. I would like to think that the people on this forum are going to be a part of our country’s rebirth after fiat paper collapses. We can all play an integral role in bringing REAL MONEY to the forefront in our area. It takes courage and fortitude to put oneself out there and help to be a part of the solution. Our forefathers were patriots and risked a heck of a lot more than what I am proposing.
Regionalized banking truly is the best system in my opinion. When folks are tight-knit and know each other, there are simply less defaults on loans, and risky lending does not take place. Once we went to global banking systems, the human factor was eliminated from the equation. Credit unions and co-op’s, as well as localized banking, is what can work and even flourish. It is that “village concept” that will be key to restoring faith and credit, as everything will be based on real and tangible assets and NOT a fractional reserve system that is, quite frankly “imaginary money” with no real backing. My goal here is to spark discussion, and I am sure others will have more to add to my thoughts. I welcome all your ideas, criticisms, and additional input to becoming the “bank” in TEOTWAWKI. The squeamish need not prescribe!
–God Bless
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30 cal= $10–223-7.62×39= $5– 45ACP=$1 40cal=.50–9MM=.25 Trekker Out. Get More Ammo!
Just what we need… A NEW banking system. /sarcasm off
From the article:
“Our forefathers were patriots and risked a heck of a lot more than what I am proposing.”
I’m pretty sure our Forefathers were against banking.
“The central bank is an institution of the most deadly hostility existing against the Principles and form of our Constitution. I am an Enemy to all banks discounting bills or notes for anything but Coin. If the American People allow private banks to control the issuance of their currency, first by inflation and then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around them will deprive the People of all their Property until their Children will wake up homeless on the continent their Fathers conquered.”
Thomas Jefferson
Not to mention, as said below, probably few have an extra $100k laying around to invest in the potential of being “the future bank”.
I used to read rawles religiously, daily. Now I remember why I quit.
Yeah, the FIRST thing people wanted to do in the 30’s was put their ‘money’ [that hadn’t been stolen already] in another bank.
New laws on “Dormant” U.S. Bank Accounts…
“According to Australia’s Herald Sun, the Australian government seized a record $360 million from ‘dormant’ household bank accounts in 2013 alone. A rule change in 2012, allowed the government to seize the money in some 80,000 accounts that had been dormant for three years.”
“…it turns out the practice is somewhat common in the United States as well. On radio this morning, Joe Kerry, president of Mercury One, explained the fight his family is currently battling with the state of Pennsylvania over funds liquidated from one of their bank accounts without their knowledge.”
“…dividends were being paid into this account. We were paying taxes on this money the whole time, yet because there was no activity for a six month period, the state of Pennsylvania took that money, without any notice to us.”
“…under this new law, any account that you don’t log into in a SIX MONTH period, that money is transferred to the state.”
“The state of Pennsylvania confirmed that the money was transferred out of the account because it was considered ‘UNCLAIMED PROPERTY’.”
“The state said, ‘We won’t know for three to six months how much money we took from that account because our records aren’t updated for that period of time.”
“They take this money… [but] they could not tell us where that money was, how much was taken, and how we would get it back.”
Glen Beck dot com
Direct link…
http://www.glennbeck.com/2014/06/17/this-happened-government-confiscates-money-from-a-member-of-glenns-staff/
My way of thinking for Coin of the Realm after SHTF is 50K rounds of .22 LR ammo and a few million vegetable seeds in my solar freezer.
*sigh*…
Okay, I hate to do this, but a few things to note:
* never, never, never, NEVER give away ammunition unless you have no real alternative, and even then only to someone you trust with your very life. The guy you give ammo to today may end up giving it back to you tomorrow at 900+ fps.
* personally, I think silver works very well. Like the guy says up there, gold has too high a value. Even in ancient times, most folks used silver for the day-to-day stuff, and few people had or used gold. Consider Judas’ thirty pieces of silver. Dude got enough money from the Sanhedrin to last him a couple of years. The Sanhedrin used it to buy a big plot of land to bury indigents in. 30 pieces. If each piece weighed an ounce, that’s roughly $600 if you bought it today.
* Personally, an individual acting as a bank is, well, stupid. Unless he hires a police force to help him guard the stuff, a small band could storm his little retreat and make off with the loot. Whether or not he survives that depends on their mood and his actions at the time. If you want to run a bank or monetary system, you’d be better off doing it as a village.
Our trip to North Western Montana, Northern Idaho and Eastern Washington, was more than rewarding and educational.
Left on Thursday May 15th and returned on Thursday June 12th. We spent a few days getting there, I tried to time it to attend Chuck Baldwins service in Kalispell on Sunday and that worked out. I don’t totally agree with Chuck’s view on politics and still thinking voting will make a difference, but we did enjoy his service and met some great people. Some even had mutual prepper friends from the U.P. of Michigan as they just moved out there from Michigan…..small world sometimes.
Then we went on to the Yaak where we stayed 17 nights on what was supposed to be a 13 night stay….found it very hard to leave. Beautiful area and full of resources. Up there you don’t have to have a big 80 or even 40 acres for obvious reasons of fresh water locations and such low population levels and high amount of resources. The article that came out after J.W.R.’s on the Redoubt, somewhat contradicting it and mentioning water as one of the reasons seemed to me to have no merit what so ever. However the price of land is still seemingly awful high, especially when you have been looking in the u.P. for the last three years.
One of the biggest pros to wife and I, were the people! Every time we went into Troy or Moyie Spring / Bonners Ferry areas, we felt as if we were taking a step back in time. Some of the locals mentioned that too, and how they can always tell when someone is from there and when they are not. The people everywhere we went up there seemed to be genuine, polite and just real kind and friendly. There were a few that we met at a rummage sale up in the Yaak about 25 miles north of Troy on Yaak River Rd that seemed, what my wife would call “a little backwards.” But I would expect that here and there in a mountainous region where you have generations of family who have only lived there and not ventured out much. The kids absolutely loved it as well. Two of the kids kept asking if we could go pan for gold in Libby, so we could give the gold to the owner of the house on the Yaak that we rented…..they wanted to stay and live there….LoL
Took a drive all the way on 508 (Yaak River Rd….area Tom Horn from Mountain Men on the History Channel lives in)to Eureka. At the top of Purcell Ridge at approx. 5800′ we stopped at a pull off for a picnic and to take pictures of the wonderful view of MT. Henry. The kids were in short sleeves and shorts having a snowball fight with mosquito’s and bees buzzing around. It seemed surreal to us.
Got to go to Eureka one day and have lunch with Brandon Smith while family stayed at the cabin. Felt lucky and had a wonderful conversation and lunch with him. I tried to hook up with J.W.R. himself too, but he was unable to due to family commitments. We did take turns reading aloud in the van on the trip, the book Patriots. Although I read it in 2011, my wife never did. It was enjoyable, especially traveling the roads in the area. At one point on one of our drives in Idaho, we came across a very nice place that had one heck of a serious bad ass look-out tower….we couldn’t help but think of Rawles and his book.
Got to meet a great guy from the board here, Dave in Idaho. We had fun shooting hand guns and messing with my .308. His wife took my family on a really cool nature trail hike that they thoroughly enjoyed, while he and I spent some time shooting and fishing. I never knew there was a handgun in 500 caliber….WOW! He showed me around to some cool areas and nice properties and took me fishing in Bonner Lake. I have never been much of a worm fisher, I grew up with grandpa taking me bass fishing and using rooster tail with #2 Mepps gold spinner. So after a good while waiting on bites using worm, I switched to what I am used to and finally got a bite….first Rainbow Trout ever….don’t like the bonyness, but meat was delicious. Got to see a Loon up close as it made it’s call….reminded me of “On Golden Pond.” The funniest memory of the day was that we both walked right by the oars as we loaded the boat in the truck and didn’t realize we forgot them until we got to the lake. He used an old half burn log to use as an oar…..great laughs, conversations and memories….thanks a lot Dave in Idaho, family and I won’t forget it and I am researching hard for work in the Pacific NW to make the visited area my home base…..great people.
After finally leaving the Yaak, we went West to visit .02. I spent the day with him out in the open….the WIDE open. Totally different terrain, but still beautiful, just a different style of beauty. He took me out to do some target shooting and try to help me fine tune the scope in and to help me with some fundamentals. WOW, what a day. We tried different rounds and found that the popular Federal Match 168 HPBT was not what my gun liked……same conclusion Dave in Idaho and I was seeing. My Savage really liked the Hornady better and most of all the Winchester Ballistic Silvertip 165 grain. With .02’s help, I was able to hit right on at 400 yards….I was so exited, I can’t even explain it. Now to some of you, that is being squawked at right now as you read this. But let me tell you I have never had any training or practice, no experience really with mil dot scopes and never ever even taken a shot at any target past 100 yards, so yeah I was really stoked and can’t thank .02 enough. We went back to his house where he, his wife my family and I all had pizza and beverages…..great people.
Not only is it LOCATION, LOCATION, LOCATION! But also it is PEOPLE, PEOPLE, PEOPLE and RELATIONSHIPS, RELATIONSHIPS, RELATIONSHIPS.
Thanks also to a poster here, whom I know not his screen name, but he emailed me a lot about the area and great fishing spots.
We were very fortunate to be able to take such a trip and even more fortunate to be able to meet some great people from these boards that weren’t so uptight with OPSEC and willing to be intentionally relational in life.
Thanks again to Dave in Idaho and his wife, Brandon Smith, .02 and his wife and the unknown guy who emailed me info on the area.
BJ
Still the very best tangible asset anyone can have is what will keep you alive and well. This is food and water of course, but it is also everything else that keeps someone healthy and safe. There are too many items to mention that will be necessary to maintain yourself. Soap and disinfective are high on the list. Basic vitamins and supplements because most people are not going to get the proper amount of nutrients. Salt is something very few people think about, but is necessary for life. Protection and shelter. Etc. etc. etc.
Let’s face reality. Something severe enough to cause the collapse of money and credit is going to throw this country and others into an area not experienced. It is not going to be some happy little purchase your weekly groceries with your silver bars. It is going to look like Hurricane Katrina on steroids. Commerce is likely not going to be going anywhere. There is in many areas not going to be any form of outside goods coming in. This is why the absolute best tanglible goods you can have is what you use daily and weekly to sustain yourself and family. That is the best case scenario if and when the economy collapses.
The worst case scenario is that World War 3 starts before the economy is ALLOWED to implode. This is far more likely to happen, as war has been the result of economic debacles too many times in the past. You will be lucky if the MSM and government even gives any warning that the missiles and long range nuclear bombers are inbound. The ONLY way someone is going to survive WW3 is with the real tangible goods that have been stored up and some good knowlegde and preparations about radiation and fallout.
A total economic collapse is NOT the depression 80 years ago. The country still functioned back then. Now a total economic collapse would be almost like an EMP hit. The country is so intertwined with the necessary transportation of goods to these enclaves they call cities, that these places would become like Escape From New York or LA type of living nightmares. Back in the 1930’s most of the U.S. was rural and could still grow food and livestock to survive. This is the reverse now as without power these large cities will die from dehydration from lack of water being transported to those that need it. Will those in control allow this to happen? Probably not and they will use the military option first and quickly.
Precious metals are excellent for a limited economic disaster. However food and supplies are the best choice for kiss 99% of the population’s asses good bye type of mega event.
“Let’s face reality. Something severe enough to cause the collapse of money and credit is going to throw this country and others into an area not experienced. It is not going to be some happy little purchase your weekly groceries with your silver bars. It is going to look like Hurricane Katrina on steroids. Commerce is likely not going to be going anywhere. There is in many areas not going to be any form of outside goods coming in. This is why the absolute best tanglible goods you can have is what you use daily and weekly to sustain yourself and family. That is the best case scenario if and when the economy collapses. ”
What a lot of people are not understanding is that things are NOT going to be like that forever. It’s just a phase we will go through. At some point, trade and monetary systems WILL be reestablished. This is not optional, it is a necessity, unless we want to permanently return to 10,000 B.C. This article is a pretty excellent introduction to what it will take to do that.
Nathan…agreed.
“Something severe enough to cause the collapse of money and credit is going to throw this country and others into an area not experienced.”
A scale of barbarism not easily identified in all of human history…just too many people competing for ever dwindling resources…cities will be a living hell first then the hordes will travel to the suburbs and certainly beyond, no place will be safe…only lesser hell…
Like a pathogen, the horde will consume everything in “it’s” path…
This article depicts a possible way of life “years” after a total collapse not months…
The best you can hope for is to survive with your humanity somewhat intact and recoverable or die quickly.
Be Informed: In every collapse throughout history there have been varying periods of pure chaos followed by a long and slow stabilization period to the ‘new normal’. When that happens, everyone, with very few exceptions, will have little to no excess of the daily essentials (food, tools, ammo, etc.) for trade, that’s when a small reserve of recognizable PMs will come in handy. Barter is fine as long as both parties have something the other wants, but when you need a tooth pulled and the local dentist has enough carrots, or .22 ammo, to last a lifetime, what will you trade for his services? That’s why money (any accepted medium of exchange) came into being. PMs have been that for a few thousand years and show little sign of diminishing. The only times this has not worked well is with the hand-to-mouth lifestyles of nomadic/semi-nomadic peoples. If we get that far gone then only what we can carry on our backs and survival skills will matter. But even the, a few silver dimes just might come in handy.
Be Informed,
You have warned about disease spreading when SHTF. Who knows what diseases are being brought in with the massive influx of illegals? Groups of illegals are being transported (flown, bussed, etc.) to a number of different states around the country. I have articles that now Massachusetts and New York are dealing with large .
DEADLY DISEASES CROSSING BORDER WITH ILLEGALS
Dr. Elizabeth Lee Vliet warns of dangers from ‘textbook Cloward-Piven strategy’
“Carried by this tsunami of illegals are the invisible “travelers” our politicians don’t like to mention: diseases the U.S. had controlled or virtually eradicated: tuberculosis (TB), Chagas disease, dengue fever, hepatitis, malaria, measles, plus more. I have been working on medical projects in Central and South America since 2009, so I am aware of problems these countries face from such diseases.
A PUBLIC HEALTH CRISIS, THE LIKES OF WHICH I HAVE NEVER SEEN IN MY LIFETIME, IS LOOMING.
Hardest hit by exposures to these difficult-to-treat diseases will be elderly, children, immunosuppressed cancer-patients, patients with chronic lung disease or congestive heart failure.
Drug-resistant tuberculosis is the most serious risk, but even diseases like measles can cause severe complications and death in older or immunocompromised patients.”
“Delays to see doctors at the Phoenix VA hospital cost the lives of 58 veterans while waiting for care. This is just a portent of far more deaths to come from delays for Americans’ medical care as thousands of sick illegals swamp already overcrowded emergency rooms.
How will these facilities stay open at all under the financial burden of this huge unfunded federal mandate to provide “free” treatment?”
WND dot com
Direct link…
http://www.wnd.com/2014/06/deadly-diseases-crossing-border-with-illegals/
Correction…
That should say…
I have read articles that now Massachusetts and New York are dealing with large groups of illegals being transported in.
UMm yeah there is some russian research floating around the web saying the death toll for the depression was around 30 million.
Great comment BJ sounds like you had a really good trip. How did you make your return trip, did you check out Yellowstone? Trekker Out.
No we didn’t. Reason being, even though we loved it and want to relocate there (if I can find the traveling safety professional work) by the time we left, we were all ready to get back home……we (including a 17 month old, a 4 year old and two 7 year olds) were in the vehicle over 6,000 miles. The last four nights in MT we were in a family members home on the Swan River in Big Fork and after that we were just ready to be home…….plus I wanted to go to Nascar race in Michigan….LoL
I also seen enough and was ready to get home and report to boss and co-worker on what we discovered while there and start doing research for contractors like the one I work for and their clients, like the one my company does work for. I know there is no nuclear power plants out there, which is a good thing…..but I know there has to be contractors servicing other industries out there i.e oil and gas, pipeline, mining and natural gas.
Oh and to answer your question on route taken, we just took 90 again back East. We did stop at Crazy Horse and Bear Country…..we all loved Bear Country a lot!
BJ, thanks for the write up on your travels. You give a good description to where I could see it in my mind’s eye. Sounds like you and family had a great time.
Oh we did indeed! The mountains are so beautiful, majestic and wild up there. I kept telling myself “and I thought Colorado was beautiful…..ha!”
I loved the expression on my wifes face the first time she saw a moose. It was walking across the Yaak at dusk one evening, mind you the Yaak was flowing at over 3,000 CFM into the Kootenai…..it was a sight to behold.
But again, it was the step back into time, the people that made the trip. It truly was like being in another world.
Just curious, as have relations in the UP and was thinking of buying a few acres up there, are there significant downsides to the UP. I would think that water, land availability and population density would be acceptable if not optimal. And the UP has a strong reputation for independce. All factors I’m looking for when SHTF. But you are there and looking elsewhere, which begs the question. Why not the UP?
We are NOT in the U.P. We have friends there and have visited a lot in the last three years. The biggest upside to moving to the U.P. to me is the land is cheap…good land!
This is the way my wife and I would explain it. On our honeymoon in 06 we fell in love with the U.P. And then met patriots in the U.P. in 2011 and fell in love with them.
Then we visited Montana and realized that the U.P. was just a puppy love crush, NW MT and N ID is truly true love:-)
The biggest downside to the U.P. is that it’s joined at the hip with Michigan….one of the worst states in the country, with one of the worst governments.
As a car lover I hated the U.P. because there is ZERO facilities available for people like me; no race tracks, no machine shops, and even the parts stores are shit.
There are a lot of things to love about the U.P., and I just might buy me some land there in 20 years after the rest of Michigan burns to ashes. Maybe the U.P. will declare independence, after which it’ll instantly be a better place.
Great read ! I’m new to posting but like reading articles and everyones comments . Ive been looking for land my self up in Utah also hopefully will find some. have land in Canada but just to far to go. Glad you wrote about your trip , I think I’ll plan one too
Sounds like you had a wonderful time BJ. Yeah, Dave in ID is a great guy. I’d love to meet his wife someday. If I was to get a decent running vehicle under my ass, there’s no telling how far I’d roam…
Yes we did and yes he is 🙂
BJ did you happen to visit the ammish comunity in the west kootenai? would have been north end of yak rd befor the bridge
Drove through there when we took 508 all the way over to the big bridge that took us over and on up to Eureka. But we did not stop anywhere before the bridge except while on top of Purcell Ridge to have our picnic and watch kids have snowball fight. We probably drove right past and didn’t even see any signs if there are any??
We mostly focused on looking for wildlife and scenic pics that day.
Why?
BJ,just wondering as you were about 2 miles away from my house if you would have went left instead of right when you came off the yaak on your way to EUREKA.the amish have big dinners on fridays its kinda a big deal around these parts,great food and lots of like minded people.glad you liked the area,although i have never posted i have read your posts and feel like i missed a chance to meet ya. HAPPY TRAVELS
@Rich…..what a serious bummer, we would of loved to meet you and say hi 🙁
We made that trip, I believe on May 30th. After Eureka, we went back down that highway and stopped at Libby Dam(it was already closed unfortunately) and then down to Libby, back up to Troy where we took the kids to the Troy pond to fish and then back up to the cabin on the Yaak.
Too bad we missed ya. That’s why I was posting stuff before we left, in the hopes to stop, meet new people from Mac’s board here and learn what ever we can about life up there.
Hopefully I can find work up there soon.
@Rich…. Seem like we are pretty close. I hike Goat Mountain and Line Point on Trailhead 44 often. Im 1/4 mile from Herman Lake. Dave
Setting around no. A few words, a few days, and a few shovels; it’s not that hard to get. Only issue is, when you need a bank, the problem is almost over.
People won’t be worried about banking for the first 100 days to 6 months, as they will be too busy burying their dead.
Amen.
Just realized that my comment got posted so far below what I was responding to it made no sense. So… here’s Outlaw’s statement:
“I used to read rawles religiously, daily. Now I remember why I quit.”
To which I vigorously say:
Amen.
I was looking for my thoughts in the comments, I found yours and I found a like mind. Don’t worry what we think of you, God loves You. God Bless.
– 34 yr old
JM… as in JM bullion. what a surprise…buy gold. forget the bullets. sarc
Sorry…Did Dick Cheeny just say on Foxs Kelly file…that obla bla WAS Muslim Brotherhood, and was “very dangerous”. Tell me I didn’t just hear that…
Haha yeah…plus what a nice way to show your cards to the world. My name is XXX and I have 100K of silver and gold.
“I’m pretty sure our Forefathers were against banking.”
No. They were against *CENTRAL* banking. Banking in general is not inherently bad. Read “The Richest Man In Babylon” for a great story which explains much about this subject.
NC, pretty much my thoughts as well. The founders of this once great country warned us many times of a central bank that the country could receive loans from. They stressed that we should run the country within the means of revenue which is the duty of congress. They/we have allowed it to fail miserably. Most of it from a greedy and arrogant congress, the citizens through complacency and indifference.
BTW, it has been noted that for the first time in US history that over 50 percent of the standing members of congress are millionaires. Gee…….must be a lot of them winning at the track during recess.
This article is a joke… “Make a profit off of each transaction.” “Be the bank” your joking right? You must stand up in front of your community in a time of distrust, hearts full of vengeance. And proclaim and show the above physical. Good luck with the fallout with everybody having Rothschild hatred seeping from their pores (poors?) hehe…
Have fun charging a “nominal interest” on your “honest money” that, given that scenario would receive a windfall of purchasing power.. People will hate your increase in PP and then you charge for a profit?
I wouldn’t partner as an outlying “lookout” for you if that’s your M.O. Good luck.
Why do all these writers of these SHTF scenarios assume there will be enough people who can be entrusted to protect you and whatever sort of wealth you have accumulated during a complete meltdown? You gotta sleep some time, so then you need an army of thousands to protect that set-up described above and to protect yourself from that “1000 persons in 10 square miles”…ayup. Good luck.
AND if there is a great “reset,” the time frame is not going to be a year or two years or three. The chaos will most likely last for decades.
If you look at the history of any country or large population/group of people, there has always been chaos, with “warlords” ruling their individual “kingdoms,” until some great leader comes amongst them who utilizes brutality and down the line, if they are lucky, mayhap a bit of humanism to create a cohesive empire, causing them all to “toe the line.” And then comes a few centuries of “rinse and repeat” until MAYBE a period of “enlightenment,” but then it starts all over again because said empire corrupts…or until said country is invaded and enslaved by another group of people who are in a less “enlightened” phase.
And with its “great melting pot” of different ethnicities, there is NO WAY America will survive a “great reset” that in any way resembles the same America or even something close to it. A great reset will create the same pockets of people that appear in the Middle East, Africa, etc. Birds of a feather….you know the rest.
So the end result will be ugly….think Hunger Games and its “districts.”
Anything else is truly a fairy tale.
I think the same preacher.
I would also add that only about 2% or so actually value PMs as money in today’s America…being brought up in a culture of paper money, they look at a clad coin the same as they see a silver one.
How would you convince these people, the other 98%, that your precious is worth more, especially if you try to convince them a silver dime is worth a paper dollar or more. You cannot base your new system on what you paid for it in the old system of paper.
Remember, money needs to have the same value for both persons doing the transaction. Not just what YOU declare it to be. I think you may as well use clad coins since most people can already recognize the value of that in their minds.
I’m not sure I did a good job of explaining this very well, but I am just looking at this from the 98% point of view that you will need to convince that PMs have more value than clad coins.
you didn’t factor in .22lr
The Federal Reserve Banker Tribe had JF Kennedy killed when he tried to ban this banking cartel from being America’s loan shark. See Kennedy’s June 4, 1963 Executive Order EO-11110.
22lr = .10 cents
Chaos I may have got there, but you have to hurry to be first. Trekker Out.
I think a swap shop would be a better deal
than an improvised banking system.
Dealing in tangible items will be bigger
than money which no one will have or trust.
Hoarding smalls pays…
Any man satisfied with living within his means has no imagination.
Not so fast. Nothing wrong with living within your means. If you are savvy enough and your means grow, you can still go out and buy “stuff”. Just don’t do it on credit.
What a world. I think Rawles hangs out with Alex Jones.
Sounds like a plan as long as you survive the bloodbath.
Especially when the public has been done wrong by the banking establishment and takes revenge.
I would NEVER use the word BANK in any post collapse business name, if you value your life. However, I would rather use the words TRADING POST.
What about Seed Bank?
Bartertown
Glad to see Mr. Rawles on here.
He’s basing it on everyone being civil and calm – maybe in a perfect scenario? But we will be dealing with very clueless, spoiled, entitlement folks here! They will take everything that isn’t bolted down, and then some!!
I seriously doubt that Mr. Rawles located in an area where the entitlement rhetoric is strong.
I commend him for his prudent and altruistic, but high risk suggestions.
Let us pray that the reset is sufficiently civilized as to allow such plans as Rawles’ to bear good fruit.
He mentioned a vault, that’s good. How about armed guards and dogs too? Better. Other ideas abound but space and discression trump.
Thank you for the article- nothing I’d have thought up but as you say “Someone needs to do it”. Won’t be me, I don’t have a pot to p!ss in or the window to throw it out of.
Forever and ever, until the end of time? Or will we eventually get through that phase when all the takers die off and only producers are left, who would like to establish trade? Or is your wife planning to go without chocolate and gold jewelry for the rest of her life?
Central banks are the overwhelming number one cause of any collapse throughout history..if on takes the time to read it..not government nor politicians as they always have done the bidding of the banks throughout history ..
That being said, the very last position I would ever want to be in is a so called bank in a post collapse scenario..
You would be the target of nearly everyone and given the state most would be in, because of banking,your life expectancy and small fortune would soon be plundered.
That in turn would require one to hire security and become what destroyed the civilization in the first place..
Good luck with this fantasy…
possee
Good call
“That in turn would require one to hire security and become what destroyed the civilization in the first place..”
Honest banks who require security guards to protect theirs and their customers’ assets are not what destroyed civilization. They are NECESSARY for civilization. So unless you are planning to go back to 10,000 B.C., we will continue to need banks in the future.
http://news.yahoo.com/missouri-gun-owner-wins-apology-police-dispute-over-185250005.html
Missouri gun owner wins apology from police in dispute over video
Maybe a few can get together and accomplish this but I know I don’t have 100 g that is sitting around. Again this would take a lot of trust in a lot of untrustworthy folks.
All this would definitely be a long time after the collapse and many folks not making it. God Bless, James
I agree James. This article should be reserved for the private forums of those who have more money than common sense. Not directed towards the everyday Joe prepper.
I think you should open your mind and think about it a little more. Read “The Richest Man In Babylon” for a good story on this subject.
RE: Babylon Sorry off topic but: The latest from Iraq.
The US Invaded Iraq to “Spread the Seeds of Democracy” as claimed after NO WMD’s were found. Then 13 yrs later Iraq has a Democratic Election in 2014 and with a 62% turnout, the people elected al-Malikia out of 7 other candidates with 24.1% of the Vote. 2nd place best was only at 7%. Now today, the US Government is calling for this Democratically Elected President al-Malaiki to be replaced. So How’s those seeds of Democracy working for ya in Iraq? US: Do as I say!!! The U.S. Govn’t is_________________ (Fill in the Blank.)
It’s perfectly clear the Democratically Elected President al-Malaiki isn’t playing western puppet, as planned. THAT is the only “democracy” the western-banksters know. The U.S. will start some shit there if they don’t get what the globalists want—wait and see if the bombs don’t start flying.
@james …if it was for EVERYBODY, it wouldn’t be NEEDED, now would it?….precisely WHY it would be needed is that VERY FEW in america have ANY savings at all…? hell, one could make a case that the whole reason we are collapsing is because we have spent ALL of our future earnings, out for several years,….so we have nothing, collectivly, as a country. states are broke. cities are broke. the feral gubmint is broke(and BROKEN). but there WILL be an end to all of this chaos, hopefully. and we get back to the US that USED to be.
I’ve become a very neat hoarder over the past 8 years, I’ve purchased many items that I did not need or want but knew that others would.
Guns and ammo in calibers I don’t shoot has performed better than gold, like many I buy things based only on what I believe I can get in trade.
If I…forget it I shouldn’t say anymore.
Tiolet paper will be highly valued. Ever been without for three weeks? I have – it was not pretty – lol. It stores well also.
I think of TP as an overstock item, a must have. Wood working hand tools is one thing I’ve been stocking up on.
there isnt much TP in the Phillipines. Locals use a rag then wash it. Note…never borrow a rag to wipe your face.
trying to stock pile shovels, hoes and other tools for building and/or working in the dirt…even though my access to dirt is limited.
Nasty topic but someone has to talk about it. High Fiber less Toilet Paper. Trekker Out.
MT ,
Or just eat MRE ‘s ( meals refusing to exit) you will go from once a day to twice a month.
LOL
Semper Fi 8541
Naaah…..not high fibre, that will only constipate! What you need is flaxseed oil, 1tbsp a day is sufficient to keep the pipes smooth and clean. Trust me, I’m an RN with over 30 years experience. Fibre requires massive amounts of water and the liklihood of getting enough of either is pretty low in a shtf type scenario. You can keep flax seeds and grind them up if the oil is not available or has gone rancid (it needs to be kept fairly cool). Plus, the benefit of flaxseed goes beyond bowels; it is great for omega-3s, regulating cholesterol levels naturally and keeps nails, hair and skin healthy, too. I’m not sure how well flax seed keeps in a long term storage situation though.
RE: Prepping vs. Hoarders:
June 16th 2014: Hoarder Dies When First Floor Collapses
(NEWSER) – A Connecticut woman died under the junk she had spent many years amassing when the weight of it all caused her home’s first floor to collapse. Police found the body of 66-year-old Beverly Mitchell on Saturday after a letter carrier warned that mail had been piling up at her home for more than a week, the Cheshire Citizen reports. After determining the building was structurally unsound, investigators had to cut into the side of it. They began to remove debris using a backhoe, and her body was eventually found in the basement, where it had been buried when the first floor fell in. She was dead for a week before they found her. (Or till the stench pointed the way) Source: http://www.newser.com/story/188495/hoarder-dies-when-first-floor-collapses.html
This is a good example of what most sheeple think preppers are…they couldn’t be more wrong.
This sounds like the guy with the most toys wins!
I’ve been putting them away for a long time.
Just keep prepping and putting away your silver and gold. That is all we can do.
A.S.M.S.
Sgt.
Too bad the king didn’t put his face on paper money. I would use it to wipe my ass face up.
yet….that’s probly coming too, sickofitall.
My buddy gave me TP with Obunghole’s photo on it for Christmas–My bung hole rejected it. As for the ensuing congresstipation, Short Plantain (soldier Wort) Psyllium seeds will get the potato out of your exhaust pipe, pretty well.
I think things will be more like the BLACK JACK episode
of the tv series Jericho
(watch on Netflix)
Exactly!
It’s nice to believe such a fairytale could exist…and it will, but probably not for years and years after the SHTF. The dark ages period lasted for well over 500-600 years. It was a time of greed, corruption, feudal lords, high taxes, and despair. Oh and death and disease. Kind of like today.
Point is, history does repeat itself and will again, because mankind is slow to learn from his mistakes. So bartering, trading and banking will take place again…after the Road Warrior and Armageddon scenarios have all played out. Hate to sound like the realist here, but if one studies their history well, then you know what is to come.
Socrates, it seems you have not studied history as well as you make it seem.
To learn about Freedom in the ‘Dark Ages’, look for the title:
Merovingian Anarchy
See also:
Rampaging Hordes – or Darlings of the Dark Ages?
Decentralization Hidden in the Dark Ages
After Empire: Dark Ages or Innovation Explosion?
The World of Salamanca
“What emerges from this growing literature is an awareness that the medieval period was the founding period of economics.”
@helot-
I know enough about them to know that economics and such did not occur en masse until very late in that period. In other words as I have said: The decay, death and destruction *will* occur first. From the ashes or survivors’ the trend of trade, greed and corruption will repeat again.
This summary from Wiki is a good start for those who are interested.
The Early Middle Ages (or Early Mediaeval Period) was the period of European history lasting from the 5th century to the 10th century. The Early Middle Ages followed the decline of the Western Roman Empire and preceded the High Middle Ages (c. 1001–1300). The period saw a continuation of trends begun during late classical antiquity, including population decline, especially in urban centers, a decline of trade, and increased immigration. The period has been labeled the “Dark Ages”, a characterization highlighting the relative scarcity of literary and cultural output from this time, especially in Western Europe. However, the Eastern Roman Empire, or Byzantine Empire, continued to survive, and in the 7th century the Islamic caliphates conquered swaths of formerly Roman territory.
Many of these trends were reversed later in the period. In 800 the title of emperor was revived in Western Europe by Charlemagne, whose Carolingian Empire greatly affected later European social structure and history. Europe experienced a return to systematic agriculture in the form of the feudal system, which introduced such innovations as three-field planting and the heavy plow. Barbarian migration stabilized in much of Europe, though the north was greatly affected by the Viking expansion.
With the word feudalism being spoken of late in various media outlets, I wonder if they know something of the real plans…or just making obvious observation…
Swarm of locust’s do not care who they overtake
Envision living in Iraq today. I don’t think people are thinking of what bank they would like to open an account up in. Or looking for an ATM machine. That is the post collapse life we need be prepared for. Road warrior daily life in real time.
Hoarding and bartering will be quite popular. Having the right goods to offer is key.
Mr Haney is gonna be RICH!
Hr. Haney… hahahah my hubby loves to watch Mr. Haney work his majic.
Zig Zigler pots and pans salesman will make a comeback. The milkman delivery business, pony express mail delivery, blacksmith, stage coach drivers, trading post, doctor, dentist, saloon, gambling, prostitution. Something for everybody. High risk jobs will be the Sheriff and Bankers.
You don’t think there will be a “still” or two cooking somewhere out in the woods/barn do you?
Of course there will be a still or two—if I have to set up one of them myself…
Humans are animals. Do you really think you’ll live to play pretend Walmart? Prove a point, during these “great economic” times of today, walk down any urban inner city neighborhood, afternoon, with dollars showing in plain sight in your hands and pockets, just how long before your beaten and left alone dying in the gutter?
I already barter my services when possible. All legit, just 2 friends trading talents.
I for one found this a very thought provoking way to look at how one might begin to establish a new exchange system long after the fall. I applaud someone throwing this idea out there. Establishing a method to analyze by local community a basis for setting up a bank/store. Our local community is very small and I think it may take somewhat less coinage investment and more diverse farm/protection equipment. Folks in our valley are farmers and quite frankly already trade a lot. We need a basis to think about value of outside purchases and I found this an interesting approach.
@Former Cal Girl – They had those, and they were called a Trading Post or General Store, where they begin to give in store credit. Ever watch the Walton’s Show during the depression. The store that the Walton’s always owed money to. Oh, an old fashion steam run “Saw Mill” would also be a good trade, post collapse. Except that there will be millions of abandoned homes to do some scrapping off of. Just look at Detroit where copper wire and windows have been looted.
Just wanted to add I too have begun to access everything we have around here like and old treadle sewing machine which works and has bobbins and extra needles,along with old washboard and stand. In the past I might have hauled them off…..NOT now.
Cal Gal,
I too have an old treadle sewing machine, wife thought I was crazy when I brought it home, but now sees it as a good acquisition. Also picked up a 1 bottom plow, disk, and cultivator for the tractor. Plenty of fuel, hand pump on the well, plenty of seeds, garden, TP, rural cabin, plenty of ammo and firearms that will reach out and touch, etc, etc. The idea of becoming a bank, or anything that resembles a bank, I believe, will be foolish in a full blown grid down-collapse. Acquiring silver and or gold is a good idea only for preserving wealth. In the early 1900’s one could exchange a 20 dollar bill for a 20 dollar gold piece. That same 20 dollar bill would now be worth .80 cents. That 20 dollar gold piece is worth at least 1300.00 dollars. So saving silver and gold is great for preserving wealth, but only after all the preps are takin care of. Just my 2 cents, which in todays economy, ain’t worth much.
Say When I am also looking at things to “repurpose”. I found two old enamel pans that are perfect for outdoor sinks. Found two old round tables and had DH cut out holes for the “sinks” with a holder on the side for towels. We are already using to washup when we come in from the garden. Nothing gets thrown away around here without a discussion.Even the little cardboard things mushrooms or strawberries come in have been repurposed, painted and are perfect for putting jars of jams in for Christmas or to store sewing supplies.
As for the banking part I think we will need some form of monetary trade eventually especially when the time comes to deal with whatever form of taxes evolve…..and let’s be real they will. We have some coinage put aside to prepare for such dealings and any major medical care grandchildren might need in an emergency, or just for needed briberary to survive(oh yes we have PLENTY of lethal survival preps). Thinking about assessment of such things is what interests me…ie know how a banker might think. And yes I know this will not happen for quite sometime after the chaos and dieoff happens. But I am a Prepper for both short and lantern.
What makes you so sure there will be taxes?
Taxes require an overlord and an overlord class, how do they fit into your little valley? More importantly, why would you want them?
Would not want them Helot but our little valley will be a part of something bigger again. Even when our folks came to this land 5 generations ago taxes soon followed. MadMax won’t last forever.
Same here, I am hanging on to shit I never would have thought to keep 10 years ago. I am keeping our worn out shoes that have long passed seen better days. They still would be much better than no shoe at all.
We are not in a total TEOTWAWKI state yet and in many parts of the country you get killed for a few dollar in your pocket. In a real TEOTWAWKI you better hide and save you A$$ Vs becoming a Bank.
Before any new system that comes in, the old ones will be destroyed as with the billions of people that are not needed to sustain it. The new system requires less than one billion people, thus about 6 billion are unnecessary. That is the scenario that will be hard to prepare for. Thus, it comes back to the main basics of needs:
1. Water
2. Food
3. Shelter
4. Warmth and clothing
5. Defense items
6. Family and friendships
7. Tools and skills
Those should be the focus of anyone today and tomorrow.
I’ll take your list over the writers list of “suggested bullion” anyday
Only Debt Slaves will request a local Bank. And those banks will be robbed and burned to the ground as soon as they are built.
To Ugly’s list I will add #8: Humility and Faith in God
Only things that you possess and have in your grasp will be worth something. Have those things people need whether its goods or skills.
The best way to proceed is conditional upon the depth of collapse. If its all the way then its time to have Beans, Bullets and Bandages exclusively. If its of a lesser degree a small farm nestled in a tight knit community is preferred along with a traditional store of wealth as in gold, silver, diamonds. If its more transient, property.
The question is: Where is the rule of law supporting the concept of the ownership of property abandoned?
Diamonds? Really? I’ll keep my beans thanks.
Having lived in 3rd and 4th world countrues for 15 years tells me that what is most important is tangible items with immediate value… precious metals have initial value but when hunger, illness, the cold, etc take over, such metals become useless. Value for us was in water, ammo, food, spices, skills, medical capabilities, etc. Gold, silver, etc become as valuable as old tires.
Except America is not the same as a third world country, and never will be. There will be a period of big time death and destruction, and probably nuclear winter for 5-10+ years. Many hundreds of millions will die. The takers will die off. Gangs will form; gangs will be killed out in gun battles with each other and with civilized groups. Over a period of time, production and trade WILL be reestablished. And there WILL be a need for monetary and banking systems. America will go to hell for a time, but it is not our destiny to remain down in the ditch forever.
If you read about the Dark Ages,it was a time of the Great Plague that killed off many. Most everyone that lived in the major population centers died off, it was the country bimpkins out in the sticks that survived most of that massive disease. Same thing will happen again today in a collapse, when simple cuts and scratches turns into infections, and dead bodies will create new diseases as well and it will be a domino affect ripping through the populations. So unless you can stay isolated and self sufficient as much as possible, those will be the survivors. And don’t be tempted to wander into the cities looking for resources as you may also be infected. Curiosity kills the cat. And its the 2nd mouse that get the cheese.
If anyone out there has lived with country folk,farmers, Ranchers etc.They all live by the golden rule around here, if you need help just ask and they will do the same. A hand shake is their bond.
A Bank is just a four letter word!!
Lead, and copper for making bullets could work as does silver and gold. Copper round 1oz. is worth $1.00 plus barter will work well for a while.
Garbage story
There is nothing wrong with this story. I don’t agree with much of it. For example, there is no use in a 100 gr bar of gold. Far more useful is 3- 1 oz coins. or some 1/4 oz. In fact I disagree with the Bank as a whole. Once you combine it with a general store it becomes much more useful of an idea. Most stores in the 1700’s used barter far more than we remember.
But I agree with having the story; far to many of us get trapped into very narrow thinking patterns.
Mad Max, is only one outcome, and not the most likely, for every total collapse there are several not so bad ones. Go live in a cave and don’t come out, is not the only thing we should consider.
“For example, there is no use in a 100 gr bar of gold”
What about for a guy who wants to become a jeweler?
The value of an item is based on who can use it to do what. There IS a reason why gold, silver, copper, and other metals have value. It’s because they have USES!
It’s to large an amount, 10% of all the gold he has. NO ONE in this situation is going to need a 3 oz gold bauble, it would just get you killed. In a survival area with only 1000 people you think someone needs a 100 gram necklace? get real! The US did not even use a $20 gold coin until 1848. It’s to much money. Study your history.
After the trucks finally stop shipping to the stores, a box of Cherios will have value. Gold and silver will be collected like aluminium cans are today, and all three of these metals become worthless in a total industrial collapse. They’ll make nifty paperweights for you closet metrosexual man-crush sportsfans.
4000 YEARS OF HISTORY AND 100’S OF COLLAPSES SAY YOU’R WRONG, BUT PLAY IT YOUR WAY. But as for me and mine, we shall put our trust in Gold. Ever notice God and Gold are very almost the same? Not a mistake.
4000 years of history written by who ? LOL have some koolaid with extra flouride to wash down that soma suppository, champ
I am completely familiar with history. If you personally don’t have use for a large chunk of gold, that’s your own interpretation. There ARE people out who have uses for it.
Post Collapse~ Brass filled with Lead, trumps Gold any day.
ZOG DHS Gestapo AirShip Blimp Bombs rising 1000’s of feet over Wash DC
Able to spy on 300 mile perimeter area 360degrees day or night… like looking through your front window at your front yard.
more w/ pics…
http://3n3myofth3stat3.com/2014/06/18/zog-dhs-military-blimps-will-float-in-aberdeen-maryland-tracking-potential-threats-and-spying-on-its-citizens/
A cheap good easy to store long lasting necessary for personal health barter item is “toothpaste”.
n.o. ;0p
Baking soda is cheap, add peroxide if ya wanna keep em pearly white.
Added bonus: no flouride
I bet if they re-did Gilligans Island, this time using real societal collapse situs, during the middle of each episode there would be a meat roast, but there are no animals on the island… I like my Mary-Ann rare with a hint of Ginger. The charachter that becomes Tony Soporano on Gilligans Island ultimately becomes last man standing, not the charachter that wants to play nice and fair bartering or sharing.
Well on Gilligan’s Island, they all had Hope on being rescued, therefore they were civilized. Then you read about the Donnar Party Stranded in the Cumberland Gap for the winter, with no hope as they begin to eat their animals, then eyeballed the children. It was told that to depersonalize their cannibalism, that families would trade their children, off to other family’s children, as not have to directly eat their own kin. Just saying as desperate people will do desperate things. In Post collapse there will be many levels and degrees of desperation, so be cautious of all who approach you. Most likely they are needing something.
The Donner Party wasn’t in the Cumberland Gap, It was 3,000 miles west of it. And the rest of your story fits the truth almost as well as your Geography does.
just wanted to pass this along
Rayovac has some very high quality camping lanterns/flashlights
free shipping at their site
be sure and check out the Hot Deals section
http://www.rayovac.com/Products/Lights/Outdoor.aspx
I’ve got their 4oo lumen and 240 lumen camp lanterns
great products
and LED’s with good battery life
@ Satori. The Rayovac you mentiuon is one of the best lanterns on the market. Also a very good lantern that has a super battery life is the Energizer Weather Ready lantern. This little lantern has a regular type of light, an LED light and a night light on it that will last for hundreds of hours. It has a handle and on the bottom a moveable plastic hook you can use to hang from a wire or rope or something. It runs about $20.
Conditions will vary from one region to another during the collapse. WE all know that the place that have benefitted from this current paradigm will suffer the most ect: NYC, So. Cal. D.C. just about every major city.
There will be such shock, disbelief and trauma that most will be to stunned to coup and just ” Check out “. Massive die off is my bet.
But in the rural areas we wont miss a beat. Farmers will still sow and reap. Bakers will bake bread. well that’s my humble opinion
Who runs barter town? This J.M. wants to. Most if not all preppers are getting ready to kill anyone that comes close. Prepping to protect their own. Prepping to kill fellow Americans. The only want something like this could take shape is if it could rise from the ashes after collapse. After the thinning. After the cull. Drop your 100k on your mega mart barter town. Then try to keep it.
His numbers of gold and silver denominations sound ambitious for my budget, but I can see how this would work. I have imagined myself being a center for exchange in some way, having a variety of gold and silver myself, but I had no picture of how it would look. This is a good article for getting a snapshot of being an exchange point for commerce.
First you identify all the local psychopaths , and make sure they never do business with your bank.
If I have no personal stake in the bank , I could care less if the bankster and family get a grisly painful demise. As in I will not endanger me or mine in any way to protect a parasite business like banking
Liberia: Ebola Deaths Turn Redemption Hospital Into Ghost Town
http://allafrica.com/stories/201406181674.html
studies show that even in this country
during a pandemic
substantial numbers of doctors,nurses and ancillary personnel
will not show up for work
I have no idea why people are not loading up on pre-1965 silver coins now that the banksters have driven the price back down again – for the time being. Also, I think it is a company called Valcambi has one ounce gold wafers that you can break into one gram pieces. I don’t have one, but have read about it, and it looks like a decent idea.
doomer porn from 1962
Panic in the Year Zero
early nuclear war scenario
not a bad flick
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hSGEiXO5894
ZOG DHS Military Blimps Will Float In Aberdeen, Maryland – Tracking Potential Threats and Spying on it’s Citizens.
http://3n3myofth3stat3.com/2014/06/18/zog-dhs-military-blimps-will-float-in-aberdeen-maryland-tracking-potential-threats-and-spying-on-its-citizens/
After years of prepping. I have come to believe the die off will be quite steep. Steeper than most imagine.
I’m not sure how long water and power will stay on. But when the water stops. You will have millions begin to die daily from dehydration in the cities. And then there will be those who die from tainted water and got sick. Many won’t even begin to starve before they die from Cholera.
If the crash hits in Winter. You’ll have millions freezing to death every night one power stops.
It saddens me that so many will die.
Not me , this place is long overdue for some bleach in the gene pool
And what if the ‘reset’ was The Plan? Does anybody think that college educated suits are stupid? Or do they play chess, while we play checkers?
What if, the Reset, is to an all electronic currency?
(it will have to be, because of the trends, and paper currency is already hated.)
What if, gold and silver were outlawed, ‘by economic necessity’, to eliminate all you evil druggies and money launderers… (sarc)
What if, an electronic bio-identity were then required to access any bank accounts?
Well, then, I suggest, you listen to the spirituality of prepping. This is prepping for the spirit, and, The Mark of the Beast.
(The black horse of revelation, is the black horse of greed, bankers and democracies, symbolized by the scales having a dual meaning. Money and justice. When it crashes, then massive inflation leads to deflation, the death of the dollar would qualify as a global paradigm shifting event. Paradigms do not shift without pain. “…a measure of wheat for a ‘days wage’, and three measures of barley for a ‘days wage”(denarius), and spare ye not the oil and the wine… There will be serfs and nobles, the middle class is gone. This, is becoming evident… NOW.)
Preachers say, it will be a time to die or sell your soul? But, that is not what scripture is talking about, no, only preachers… why do they all have this fascination with death? I guess its their job, but then, if you die, what of the Children? And, their children? If you die, preacher man, you give your children to the Beast system… shame on you for ‘doctrines of devils’.
No, to prepare spiritually, is to see the storm on the horizon, and go into the wilderness on the wings of a great eagle… the USA is the fulfillment of prophecy, simply because we left Europe and the persecution of the Church. Now, the persecution comes again, and the same solution is called for.
The article above is good, but, faithful, should learn how to do things, and network for barter. This is how to “… trim your wick, and fill your lamp, and hide in a back room”. When the light hides in the dark, only those with lights, can find the others…
We are deceived by these people who run their lives based on fear. BJ, above, found out what happens when you return to the old ways of America, and drop your guard just a sneak… location, people, relationships. Learn what wealth IS, in lives, loves and lands… not numbers on a piece of paper.
God Bless
Piper
I agree and thanks for the shout out 🙂
More and more I see everyone swiping bank cards at the check-out. Very little cash is used.
@PO’D ..because more and more, they gotta BORROW to make ends MEET!
lynyard skynyrd said it well…
ewww that smell
cantcha smell that smell?
ewww that smell
the smell of DEBT surrounds youuuu!
lol…nice “substitution”. One of my favorites.
Yeah bcod, you nailed it!
come on now, peeps. surely someone can come up with the REST of the words to that song that would be entertaining…use yer imaginations,guys….i was going to work on this verse to change some words around and i realized i COULDN’T improve on what they said….genius!
Whiskey bottles, and brand new cars
Oak tree you’re in my way
There’s too much coke and too much smoke
Look what’s going on inside you
Ooooh that smell
Can’t you smell that smell
Ooooh that smell
The smell of DEBT surrounds you
Ooooh that smell
Can’t you smell that smell
Ooooh that smell
The smell of DEBT surrounds you
One little problem that confronts you (3:28)
Got a monkey on your back
Just one more fix, Lord might do the trick
One hell of a price for you to get your kicks
I remember in my fishing days a large tuna or marlin would be caught. After sharing in the bounty NOT ONE person thanked me. After this I reduced my catch. After one low trip skip jack were caught. If your not familiar skip jack or skippies are low grade fish, usally mixed with tuna for moisture. A friend of mine out of work for a while with kids was given some skippie and yellow tail tuna that he made tacos out of to feed his family. Tears of thanks were payment enough. The moral of this …. I’ll let you figure it out.
The tomatoes (beefsteak) are coming out fine. Better than anything in the store. Lettuce was attacked by some desert turtles in back yard. Sweet peppers just starting to mature. Never tried corn before. Any suggestions would be appreciated.
Tried planting gold but no luck. Guess I’m not a banker. That’s O.K. as gold don’t taste good.
I will save nickles as this may be a great form of “money”
Took the van (my service truck) in for service as this is bug out vehicle. Keep your vehicle full of gas and well maintained is hard for many in this economy. Pay now or pay later.
I don’t have massive amounts of precious metals. I do have a bible. Think of that what you may.
Learn to relax during stressfull times. Learn from the homeless. There not all lazy drug users. Learn this from a ex-valium addict (me by prescription). Those “I’m not a addict because a doctor wrote a script for it” drugs may not be available.
Take care of those medical problems before they become permenant . Stop smoking. Yes your sick of hearing it. I spent 5 days in hospital – twice because of COPD. My life, because of my own stupidity / additions have removed about 20 years of my life. No wining. I did this to myself.
learn a skill. Maybe something that starts as a hobbie, then becomes a usable skill. Wood working can be fun if you take your time to learn properly.
Yes I’ve learned thru stupidity some hard lessons in this old buzzard’s life.
Mike, I don’t know what zone you live in for growing a garden or what kind of corn you wish to grow. Check out ‘Tennessee Red Cob’ a “dent” type corn. Its good for roasting or grinding for flour. Another is ‘Wade’s Giant Indian’ which is a “flint” corn and can be used for meal or feed. The TRC is a very drought resistant corn. The WGI stalks can grow up to 20 feet tall with ears up to 14 inches long. If you’re looking for plain old sweet corn, ‘Bodacious’ is a delicious white sweet corn and cans well, 75 day germination as opposed to ‘Silver Queen’s’ 90 day variety.
BTW, I forgot to add that the Tennessee Red Cob and the Wade’s Giant Indian are “heirloom” varieties whereas the Silver Queen and the Bodacious are hybrids.
I grow a variety of indian corn that the majority of the ears are red. It grows over ten feet tall and makes two good sized ears to the stalk. Planted in rows 18 inches apart with a corn plant and then a bean every 6 inches. I don’t use any commercial fertilizer just composted weeds , goat & rabbit manure. Probably has a average yield of between 100 and 150 bushel to the acre. it makes very good animal feed and likely would make a good corn wiskey.
Goat and rabbit manure are some of the coolest(temperature wise) and most beneficial manure you can use in a garden and can really be applied right a way without composting it. AND… with rabbit you don’t have to worry about weed seeds mixed in it.
Thank you PO’d Patriot. Will choose sweet corn, planted 18″ apart like seed packet says. Rats, birds,and squirrels combined don’t do the damage as oppossums. This is Southern Cailifornia. I saved some 3 foot sqaure screens with frames from remodel projects. They will stop the big 3, but not opposums. My dogs love attacking these varments but I fear desease.
Yes rabbit makes great manure. Had up to 30 when prices were high. Now prices are so low not worth it. Good to try on a smaller scale. You MUST study health and proper butchering.
Live and learn.
Those with a reliable source of clean drinkable WATER owns a bank. Here again,you must be able to defend it from bank robbers. Soon my friends very soon!
River Rat at the ready!!! NOMI///MOLON LABE!
The big mistake being made here is to downplay the importance of being with the right people and in the right community when a crisis strikes. History and experience shows that strong communities where values are shared and where people are able to identify and sympathize with each other, better weather crises. Places where people already despise each other because of race, ethnicity, religion, sexual preference etc. break down very quickly and very violently (look at today’s Iraq as a real-time example of this). The diversity and failure of Iraq has more in common with the US than, say, does Japan or Iceland. Iceland experienced a severe economic crisis where everything collapsed but it did not break down into drive-by shootings, race riots or any other extreme social failure. Japan had the Tsunami and Fukushima but has not devolved into warring factions.
In the UK, just even the hint of some cut backs in social welfare payments led to four days of out-of-control rioting. In the US, mere delays by hours in EBT card payments led to mass stealing. These are the highly vulnerable societies to extreme breakdown. The UK is considered the most socially isolated society in Europe: that means there is no social glue to hold things together in a crisis and the state is the only option. But the state is broke and in chaos and is limited in what it can do.
In an extreme crisis, some societies will weather it well and get through it with ingenuity, resourcefulness, positivity, and social cohesion, while others will rapidly break down and result in hoarding, violent assaults, gangs, possible genocide and score-settling, etc. Use your brain to work out which places these are…
I have stashed away quite a collection of nudy magazines, i believe i will make a bundle with these when the time is right.Don’t doubt me on this trust me.
old school porn, before the internet, is a gold mine
Confucius say: “He who hoard retro, vintage porn shall also inherit the earth.”
Definitely a smart wealth strategy: just hope it isn’t ISIS or some other Islamic extremist group who takes over in a shtf scenario. Then you will be lined up at the side of the road and executed.
why? the real thing will be cheap and freely available when people are starving. strip for a bite of beans..? you bet. I’m not advocating it, I’m just pointing out the reality of whats coming. Consider it incentive to prep so your wife and kids don’t end up in “the industry”…
Ha! , yeah once the internet goes down..you may have the only source for looking at fake boobies for miles!
never though of that
Setting on the porch with a cold one, a rifle, some porn, waiting on the Blue hats to show up. Now just how much better could it get?
This story offers the worst possible advice. A family during an end crisis better be stealth, you don’t want to attract any attention. You better become invisible, if seen you better act like you are poor without any food, water or energy. Playing banker in this situation will get your family eliminated faster than corn on the cob. Picture your home being ransacked like Walmart on black friday, times 100, the moment word gets out that you have food, energy, water; notice I left out precious metals – they become worthless in a total collapse. Play bankster in the collapse, BAHAHAHA
@bert i gave you a thumbs up, because you offer ONE of the scenarios that COULD happen, JWR offered ANOTHER…don’t get caught up in a “this is how it’s gonna go down” thing, because there’s MANY more different ways this could play out. nobody KNOWS for sure how it will play out, although i happen to agree with you for the most part. thanks for your contributing to making this the best blog!
Just like Bush Alaska where the Browns barter with fish, meat or services will be your best bet. Secondary choices for the average people will be booze, cigs, soap, toilet paper. PMs will only be good for dealing with “those incharge”, but like someone else said, and has been done before, PMs could be outlawed. Even if outlawed, I believe who were or are still rich after everything will still take gold/silver just because it’s pretty, lol. For the rest of us it’s everyday items. The problem I have with the story is everything has to be somewhat civil. I don’t believe it’ll be civil at all and when “order comes from chaos”, you’ll be branded a terrorist for having anything that makes you self reliant, just like now only worse. Your barters need to be off the books and away from most. I don’t agree with his story of having a large building and acting like a bank. You’ll be over run in no time be thugs or boots! He’s proposing a slippery slope and is giving up OPSEC.
This isn’t going to be Little House on the Prarie. Mr Olsen would not approve
From “Mad Max” to “Nothing Is Going To Happen”.
One hell of a span and all the possibilities in between.
I am sure that in the future we will wish we had an item we deemed unnecessary today. Better to have some than none should I have the space to store the item. The Neat Hoarder Idea is similar to how I arrange things. Easy to read, Labeled foot lockers. Small Items encased in plastic containers that fit well into military packs.
When we sit back and take a good look at ourselves, a hidden anger may be within all of us.
That anger is being forced to do what we do. Why? Because we are responsible people that protect home and family. But others make it harder on us and we expend more time on things that tend to be negative. I would rather buy a keg of Beer and share than buy 10,000 bullets to kill.
As an example there would be few of us that would take in N. Pelosi or Schumer or Holder if they showed up at our door for help. Or the people that associated with them. In a bigger circle, those we felt responsible for the fall of a Great Nation. Lots to choose from.
Choose well my friends.
All my life ive tried to do the correct responsible thing. You know save up to buy stuff. avoid debt. Pay my debts. Don’t do others out of the way. live frugally. My wife & children would sometines ask Why do we have to be the model & toe the mark? My only answer was that my parents brought me up to know what it means to be White. And as long as I was in charge it was going to be that way. when the kids went out on their own they did go astray and learned their lessons the hard way. And when thay came begging to mean old dad for money & to cosign for a bank loan I didn’t bail them out. Nope I told them you knew better you made you own bed now lie in it. Now that their in their forties they see the wisdom of mean old dads lifestyle. their now debt free productive good citizens. Since grocery prices have risen they have started growing a garden and hunting for part of their food.
What are you talking about? Everyone here would be happy to take Nancy or Chuck into their house. Hotel California awaits them.
The Idea that banks & banking will be needed or be viable anything soon is absurd. Banks where robbed back in the thirties. In the future lawless society any one trying to become a bank will simply be painting a bulls eye on themselves. Food & weapons will be much desired. acohol & drugs worth more than gold. My ancestors where Vikings. They pillaged and stole valuables but that wasn’t the main objective. They really wanted the women booze & food. In the feast in the great halls thats all there was. Women food and drink. Nobody really cared about the gold a good weapon was of more value. A place wasn’t raided to the point of extermination. Raid and take the cream ,Prettiest women ,best livestock ect. Leave that place and let them recover. In ten years repete the process. Until gun powder & guns came along and made the smallest man equal to the largest Viking The rule of the strongest & meanest prevailed. The future will be a no holds barred root hawg or die survival of the meanest fittest and lucky. I believe no person alive today will live long enough to ever see or have need of a monetary coin banking system. Needed items be acquired by producing them yourself, By barter, or by taking them by force from someone else. Poohey on banks. the banks are the cause of the mess we are now in. Even Today I hardly use the bank. My check is direct deposited. the next day I send off a check for the bills that have to be mailed. after a few days I draw all my money out in cash except for about $100.
Agree: history and current events show money and gold are just a means to an end. Men will – and always will – fight over women, with the best ones being the prize. Smart thugs always leave enough in place so that the ransacked community can get back to doing what they do and the thug can extract a ‘rent’ from the surplus.
Look at any society and you will see the same forces at work. The more unstable the society, the more beautiful are the women who are hoarded by the boss men. Peaceful, egalitarian societies will have more beautiful women generally spread through the population so that you may spring upon a ‘super model quality’ woman serving you coffee in a restaurant. That never happens in unstable societies where the strong bully their way to all the resources.
I have noticed more and more it is just ten-ton Tesses who are serving coffee in New York these days. All the beautiful women have been plucked up by the super-wealthy.
I agree Old Guy. The Dumb, Gullible and Naive will be the first to die, post collapse. “Hey, does anybody have change for this $10,000 Gold bar??” Sure Fella Step Right Up, show us what you got!!! Bwhahahahaaaaaaa
Argentine Default Looms; Refuses To Negotiate; Admits Next Bond Payment “Impossible”
“Argentina’s attempt to work around SCOTUS decision in favor of the ‘holdouts’ was rejected (under anti-evasion orders) last night leaving Argentina no alternative but to threaten to default on its debt.
The government called it “impossible” to pay bond service due on June 30, because payment to holders of restructured bonds could not be made unless the ‘holdouts’ were paid $1.33 billion at the same time (and Argentina’s economy minister argues could be up to $15 bn) which the distressed country clearly does not have.
…Argentina has renegged on that negotiation with the ‘holdouts’ who refused to participate in two restructurings that followed Argentina’s 2002 default but it seems increasingly likely that an even of default looms for Argentina.
One good thing may come from the victory of the ‘hold-outs’: the government will find it difficult to rack up more debt.”
Zerohedge
Direct link…
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-06-19/argentine-default-looms-refuses-negotiate-admits-next-bond-payment-impossible
Since Argentina isn’t going to ransom out their resources and their people, it won’t be long before TPTB set up another coup, just like in Ukraine and the middle east. Then, the bombs will start falling [for democracy and freedom]. It will be that simple. Wait and see.
Suburban Chicago gas price, near me, is $4.15 per gallon. Both parties propose a 12 cent federal gas tax hike. Which means it will be passed. Wait until they pass the big EPA energy taxes. The 12 cents is “to maintain the integrity of the highway fund”. Translation, if the States play ball with the Feds, the Feds will share the pork.
Yippie!
Add 12 cents to the gas price. Why go so small? Make it a Damn Dollar you PUSSIES. We are still Feeding the Beast! Pay the Tax or No Gas.
Choose well my Friends.
“If Americans ever allow banks to control the issue of their currency (Federal Reserve, central bank, IMF) , first by inflation and then by deflation (Economic bubbles), the banks will deprive the people of all property until their children wake up homeless in the streets.”
Thomas Jefferson
Place your Honor in all things.
…but only place your trust where it has been earned.
Just a word on pricing things with silver. In 1963 a gallon of gas could be bought for 20 cents of silver. In 2014 with the current price of approximately $20 per oz of silver. 20 cents of silver will still by a gallon of gas.
Well, I have a butt load of 22, 45, 9 and about 100 SAE’s. That’ll have to work. For some reason I think 22LR (IF things where to ever go bad) will trade far, far easier than Au at that point. And for MORE.
And I just acquired 24 acres in the South. Wooded, wild animals and just enough to open area to grow plenty of food. Not to mention remote and with very, very little (if any) government ‘issues’.
So let’s review; ton’s of ammo, good food supply and remote area in the South. Some folks will simply bring me their Au for my ‘maters. I’ll stick with that plan.
ANOTHER bank; F YOU.
Also, new mortgage applications dropped over 9% in the last month. Nice recovery. Part-time workers don’t buy homes. The talking heads don’t get it. Bad news is coming faster and faster. It’s really getting hard to keep up with it.
The War Nerd: Here’s everything you need to know about “too extreme for Al Qaeda” I.S.I.S.
http://pando.com/2014/06/16/the-war-nerd-heres-everything-you-need-to-know-about-too-extreme-for-al-qaeda-i-s-i-s/
“As the Scriptures remind us, “Do not believe the hype.” The hype of the moment is ISIS, the Sunni militia that just drove the so-called Iraqi Army out of Mosul, Tikrit, and other Iraqi cities.
This is one of those dramatic military reverses that mean a lot less than meets the eye. The “Iraqi Army” routed by ISIS wasn’t really a national army, and ISIS isn’t really a dominant military force. It was able to occupy those cities because they were vacuums, abandoned by a weak, sectarian force. Moving into vacuums like this is what ISIS is good at. And that’s the only thing ISIS is good at.”
I’ve spent the last week trying to figure out what the hell
is REALLY going in Iraq
one thing I have determined is that WE broke it
and others are paying the price
“WE broke it and others are paying the price”
While yet others are preparing to reap the profits.
The banking scenario is meaningless because only 3% of the population is preparing. I’m part of that 3%. I wouldn’t sell any food. I don’t even know if a year’s supply is enough. Once the dollar collapses most Americans will die.
I recently watched the first season of “The Colony”. I think Discovery channel put it on. Basically a handful of people that are considered a snapshot of the population are put into a post apocalypse scenario and told to survive. Things I noticed immediately that hand tools were a must! Knowing how to use them a must, but creatively designing inventions to use was a God send! The creative mind that has the know-how (not just book smarts) survives. The handyman who proclaimed he had little education, was probably the most valuable person to the group.
The group did barter a bit but the concept of bartering was not explored in depth on the show.
If you haven’t watched the series, I would encourage it. I learned A LOT from watching this group. I know it is on Netflix streaming, maybe on youtube.
Prepper Tip of the Day
multiple ways to eat hot food WTSHTF
JUNE “Get it Done” Challenge: Cook that food!
http://foodstoragemadeeasy.net/2014/06/18/june-get-done-challenge-cook-food/
I am prepared to be a local trading posts. That has been part of my groups plan for a long time.
so when folks realize you have the hard goods to fund a post-shtf bank (ie- $100,000 in gold and silver), exactly what kind of a target does that make you? with a greater payout, folks will be willing to take greater risks to rob you. Being a “bank” that deals in metals post shtf is the equivalent of hanging a neon “kill me” sign over your retreat. Not that bankers are going to be seeing much love after the collapse anyway.
If you are going to be your communities bank after the shtf , your going to need your own security force.
as people will be killing each other just for access to clean water, let alone food medicines weapons ammo gold silver etc etc.
arm up stock up prepare
n.o. ;0p
Friend of mine in Texas made the comment while talking about the influx of Illegals being allowed by Oblaimy into this country It’s really interesting. In his area as he walked his dog , a number of the cars that had Obongo stickers on them don’t have them any more. In talking to people, they’re starting to get worried that when the SHTF (which is going to happen before too long), they dont’ want to be visibly associated with the crap sandwich they helped feed this country.
I have also noticed very few cars in my far northern area near a heavy DEAMONcratic area there dont seem to be as many “supporters” and if they are, they have gone back in the closet ..
Fuckin flip floppers ,, hey if you voted for him you should hang with him too! and all your neighbors should know, and why
Typical sheep, take a dump and walk away, leaving the mess for others to deal with…
Better investment would be to take that 100k and buy a stripper well that has water on the property and operate it yourself.
Black gold will always be worth more than yellow gold, especially in a TEOTWAWKI situation. A gallon is the same as 800 man hours of labor in real energy…how much energy does that gold give you?
OPEN BORDERS: HEALTH FEARS SPREAD…
Drudge Report
$110,000.00 PLUS a building with a stok yard, paid off in full, PLUS a vault, PLUS security guards?
B*tch is made of money or something…
Yeah, I’m sure I have something like a million two just “kicking around” to invest in preps. No problem, dude.
I couldn’t buy a tuff shed, if somebody gave me the pallet to set it on for free.
It doesn’t have to be an “all or nothing” kind of thing. It’s something you can work toward one piece at a time rather than expecting to obtain everything all at once.
In a sound and fair monetary system (i.e. not centrally controlled), in a somewhat moral society where most people try to “do the right thing”, your net worth to the community will be approximately equal to your financial net worth. And when you know you’ve “really made it” by possessing and dealing honestly in real assets instead of promises on a piece of paper, that sure does feel good, doesn’t it?
If you and your gold can contribute enough to help jump-start trade between only two people/producers post-collapse, or production for some worthwhile business, then hell…I’d say you’ve done SOMETHING to make the world a better place, haven’t you?
This ties into something else: it seems like a lot of people really haven’t put a lot of thought into anything past the collapse and immediate aftermath. Somebody comes along and writes an article that’s looking more toward the long term, i.e. rebuilding civilization from scratch after we’ve been bombed and nuked back to the stone age; and he gets booed by some folks who obviously aren’t thinking so far ahead. Come on people….open your minds and consider that time always marches on, and change is constant. The picture in your mind of “how it’s going to be” may be accurate during some period of time, but eventually things are going to change, and progress back to some state of order.
There will be mass rioting in the beginning, but by the time say three months go by there will been have been a huge die off, primarily due to starvation, disease, accident, and homicide. During/after this period there will be a shift to increasingly organized and experienced groups controlling certain compounds, expanding into ranges, then terrorities. As claimed territories converge, friction and fighting will occur. Over time some of those groups will kill each other off, and others will be conquered. There will be totally vile, evil assholes, as well as more-or-less good groups who try to do the right thing. They will all heavy suffer losses and attrition as nature takes its toll.
Eventually, things will become more stable, and some order will begin to emerge. Near the beginning the most basic crafts are most vitally needed; knitting, sewing, tool and vehicle repair, etc. As the countryside is continually scoured for various manufactured artifacts which could be of various uses, and these are stockpiled in increasing quantities, this will stimulate trade by necessity. If every car battery in the world has been claimed by someone, then how do you get one if you need it? You must trade for it. Eventually, you will decide to use precious metals to conduct trade, because it is simply the best option.
First there will be small trade convoys under heavy guard and traveling at night, along with lone individuals sneaking around down backwoods trails and dealing with only trusted sources, with heavy use of barter; but eventually the demand for goods will increase along with widening trade corridors as territories are tamed, uncivilized groups defeated, and rogue brigands are imprisoned/executed. The less room a trader needs for AK47s and ammo, the more room he has for goods, and gold/silver/copper to exchange for them.
And yes, eventually paper notes will come back into existence in some form or another. They do have many valid uses that are helpful for facilitating trade and production. Read Adam Smith!
I plan to have a key role in helping shape this new world towards good and righteousness and away from evil..how bout y’all? That’s if I survive of course. We are guaranteed nothing, other than the eventual triumph of God over Satan.
In the real world after all is said and done, and there is a total collapse the most PRICELESS thing you can have. CLEAN WATER, because without it, in three days every other thing means absolutely NOTHING. So put back your gold and silver, or whatever; CLEAN WATER will rule the day. Don’t believe me go without any water for three days and tell me how it works out for you then, no fluid intake of any kind for three days. We’ll see what starts to shut down with the old body. How much will a cup of clean water be worth then? Without it you will die, Period!
River Rat at the ready!!! NOMI//MOLON LABE!
I agree, River Rat. I came to the same conclusion about two weeks ago. No potable water to drink or to cook with means survival game over.
I had two thoughts reading this.
1. “most people will not begrudge you a reasonable profit for the services you provide to the community, as long as you are compassionate, charitable, and friendly to all who patronize you.”
I’m sorry, this is just naive. People will begrudge the living hell out of you for making a profit on this kind of misfortune. It’s one thing to trade your labor or possessions for something you feel is equal value, but to pay someone because they have money and you don’t: that’s a recipe for some serious begrudging.
Also, “charitable and friendly” ?? How charitable and friendly will the bank be when it has to cover it’s losses from loans that are defaulted on? Perhaps borrowers will be killed or robbed or can’t pay for some other reason. Will interest rates rise to cover losses? Of course they will, or the bank will be broke and everyone who deposited will be broke. How friendly and reasonable will be everyone be then? There is a reason bankers are so cold and calculating.
2. Who says we will need loans? It’s this kind of programming that has led to our current situation. Why can’t we wait to buy large ticket items? A much better system should rise from the ashes of this collapse, a system where we don’t run to the bank to borrow money we don’t have, to buy things we don’t need.
This author sounds like a prepper, but honestly, anyone who wants to enslave others in the bondage of debt is not someone I want in my community as we rebuild society in the aftermath.
“How charitable and friendly will the bank be when it has to cover it’s losses from loans that are defaulted on? Perhaps borrowers will be killed or robbed or can’t pay for some other reason. Will interest rates rise to cover losses? Of course they will, or the bank will be broke and everyone who deposited will be broke.”
What you’re not understanding is that banking does not have to work that way. A bank does not have to charge interest to make money from loans! Read “The Richest Man in Babylon.” A good lender always takes a piece of collateral equal or greater in value to the loan amount. If the loan defaults after a reasonable and mutually agreed upon period of time, the item is retained and/or sold. In the case of a loan which is paid back in full, the item is returned and the benefit the lender receives is the pride of knowing he helped the community. Inevitably some loans won’t be paid back, and the lender will make a fair profit.
“Who says we will need loans? It’s this kind of programming that has led to our current situation. Why can’t we wait to buy large ticket items? ”
If you need a grain mill yesterday because you have 100 acres worth of wheat to mill, and people are starving waiting for it, and the guy who has the parts you need to build it only accepts gold or silver, you don’t have time to sit around saving up money. The purpose of a loan is to help with unexpected situations or opportunities like this. The borrower gives over some collateral. How many AK47s do you think a grain mill is worth? Those are stored by the lender and the money is loaned. Parts are bought, mill is built, grain is milled, mouths are fed. Everybody profits!
If you planted 100 acres of wheat with no plan to mill it, a loan is not the answer.
If you are talking about bartering, fine. If you are talking about a business that provides security for valuables and you want to pay for that, fine. But I think it’s time for us to truly think differently about lending and credit.
I don’t have ANY credit cards or loans in any form. It’s possible, people! Don’t accept the ‘you can’t sit around saving up money, go to the bank and get it NOW’. This is the mentality that has broken this country, to the tune of trillions of dollars.
It used to bother me to think the government was talking my money and giving it to the lazy until I realized they weren’t taking it from me as much as they were borrowing it; far beyond their means to ever pay it back. THIS is what has destroyed us.
Insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results. Keep believing in this system of lending and credit if you want, but I believe it will be the destruction of anything that rises from the ashes if we allow it to take hold again.
“If you planted 100 acres of wheat with no plan to mill it, a loan is not the answer.”
So because you found a hole in my particular example, my entire argument is bunk. Of course it isn’t. Think about it.
“I don’t have ANY credit cards or loans in any form. It’s possible, people!”
Sure it’s possible. Unless and until you’re building a multi million dollar corporation from scratch without multi millions of dollars of your own personal money to spend on it.
“Don’t accept the ‘you can’t sit around saving up money, go to the bank and get it NOW’. This is the mentality that has broken this country, to the tune of trillions of dollars. ”
Getting loans for business purposes has not broken anyone. On the contrary, business could not function properly without loans.
“It used to bother me to think the government was talking my money and giving it to the lazy until I realized they weren’t taking it from me as much as they were borrowing it; far beyond their means to ever pay it back. THIS is what has destroyed us.”
Which has absolutely nothing to do with private banks lending for business purposes.
“Insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results. Keep believing in this system of lending and credit if you want, but I believe it will be the destruction of anything that rises from the ashes if we allow it to take hold again.”
Insanity is thinking that your ignorance of how the world works is a good reason to undo 10,000+ years of human history. You can continue holding foolish beliefs, but humanity will continue to march forward without you. Banks and lending will always exist, because they are necessary. PERIOD.
You may think I’m ignorant and foolish, but the ad hominem attack is sort of the last resort of a weak position.
I don’t think you are foolish just because you don’t agree with me.
The author is not talking about multi-million dollar businesses taking out loans, or even private banks loaning to businesses, he’s talking about setting up a bank to service the people of his local community in a post-shtf scenario, so you can save your lectures about how I don’t know how the world works. Did you read the article?
As far as government borrowing (the representatives who are ostensibly doing the will of the people), my comment goes to the pervasive philosophy that we must borrow, ‘it’s the way things work’, people have been conditioned to want things now. Buy now, pay later. Think outside the box and imagine a different economic paradigm, I know it’s difficult, but we certainly could live in a world where people do not borrow.
I found a hole in your example because it’s an excellent example of the 1 dimensional thinking I’m talking about.
If the farmer needs parts for his mill, the FIRST place he should go is the person with the parts. Why on earth should that person want to go to the bank? I’d be glad to trade wheat mill parts for a couple bushels of wheat.
‘The borrower is the slave of the lender’. Wise words of warning from Proverbs in a post collapse world.