The Money of Kings, Gentlemen, Peasants, and Slaves

by | Feb 6, 2011 | Precious Metals | 129 comments

Do you LOVE America?


    The latest micro-doc from Future Money Trends provides yet more evidence for why gold (and silver) will be driven to new highs as economic and political conditions in the U.S. and around the world deteriorate.

    An aging population, outsourcing and peak oil will all cause a further decline in GDP and tax revenue. Higher trade deficits, higher unemployment will cause the U.S. to borrow even more, resulting in an even greater currency devaluation. As the world realizes the debt crisis will only grow, that the West will choose to default through inflation, demand for gold will inevitably rise.

    Mine supply has been in decline since the year 2000. Fewer deposits are being found – smaller, lower grade deposits.

    As safehaven demand accelerates, the world will turn to gold.

    If the world’s pension funds and hedge funds move just 5% into gold, gold would need to trade for at least $5000 per ounce just to meet demand.

    Gold is the money of kings.

    Silver is the money of gentleman.

    Barter is the money of peasants.

    Debt is the money of slaves.

    The estimated, unofficial, total liabilities for the United States of America over the next 20 – 30 years exceeds $200 Trillion. That’s how much debt we as a nation have committed to (and it rises everytime Congress passes a new law).

    The only option for the majority of people in this country over the next several decades is enslavement.

    Make a conscious choice to avoid your own personal debt prison and wealth decline by whatever means you have available. If that means buying gold – do it. If it means farming your own land – do it. If it means creating energy independence and getting off the grid – do it. If it means aquiring new skills that will enable you to produce essential goods and services  in the future – start studying. Create a way to find independence and shield yourself as best you can.

    Most of our neighbors and fellow citizens have not an inkling what is coming their way. They won’t be ready. You can be.

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      1. And now, my fellow silver-buggers (or is it buggists?), this, from the gotgold report:

        Full-blown backwardation has arrived in the COMEX silver futures market.  Backwardation suggests that competition for whatever metal is available is heavy and most analysts consider silver backwardation to be a decidedly bullish condition.
        By the way, as of Friday, there was only enough silver metal in the Registered category in COMEX depositories to accommodate 8,680 COMEX contracts (43.4 million ounces), or about 6.6% of the 130,601 contracts open as of Thursday’s tally.  (Another 59 million ounces was listed as “Eligible” and some of that metal could conceivably be coaxed into the Registered category at some price.  Some of the Eligible silver is likely already committed for other purposes and is merely stored in the COMEX system awaiting delivery.)
        Evidence of tightness in the silver market continues to surface in other words. 
        Got silver? If not, why not? You can mark you calendar for this explosion in demand and chaos! Prep on!

      2. Gold is the money of kings.
        Silver is the money of gentleman.
        Barter is the money of peasants.
        Debt is the money of slaves.
        Great statement.  My response would be, it’s not all about the gold and silver.   The ole sayings are also true  about money, gold or  silver, can’t buy you love, happiness or enlightenment. 

        I’ll take bartering and being a peasant if it means living my life as I am now as I feel truly blessed.  Comfortable and familiar accommodations, plenty of food and water, security in my surroundings, companionship, mental stimulation,  physical exertion,  health, spirituality, a life purpose, leisure time,  topped off with a glass of wine by the fire with a friend or two for laughter and good cheer. 

        Since I’m not a member of the lucky sperm club or born with a silver spoon in my mouth, guess I’ll deal with the cards dealt.  Getting myself out of debt means I’m no longer a slave.  So, I can  barter because of my investment in preps,  supplies and nickels to continue what I consider a rich and quality filled life. 

        It’s so frustrating that the rest don’t get it.  I keep reminding myself, it’s about free will and  choice.    

        Aren’t wars between Kings, governments, dictators and NWO all  wanting more gold and silver????  When is enough – enough?

      3. When anyone in your circle disparages gold (or silver) just ask them why the banksters are so afraid of it;  so afraid that they have suppressed it’s price for over 40 years.

        “PM’s give us the freedom from those who would enslave us through debt”;  write this phrase down, memorize it, and live your life accordingly.

      4. I can tell you what the currency of football fans is, and just because I’m a nice guy,,,,,,here it is.  Feel free to make your own, just don’t try and get your dick-skinners onto my plate and grab mine!  🙂

        Worlds Best Hot-wing recipe;

      5. Organic wings (I get them and butcher myself rather than the pre-cut ones, clean the yellow stuff off too.)
        Franks Red Hot Sauce (not tabasco, tabasco has a nasty vinegar flavor)
        Organic butter half stick
        Cayenne pepper to taste
        Sea salt and black pepper
        Fry wings 15 minutes in mixture bacon grease and frying oil, turning 2-3 times.
        OK, so I mis-fired, been a while.  Here you go!
        In a bowl, mix sauce, butter, cayenne, salt and pepper. Nuke it until the butter is melted and stir well. The more cayenne, black pepper and salt you add, the hotter they get.
        Get the wings out and dry on paper towels, add to bowl, stir until coated. Serve with ranch or bleu cheese on the side. Don’t forget the paper towels!

      6. PM???

        • PM? PM?
          precious metal Pal.

      7. Ok, I’m calling it!!  Lady Hawk & Goldenfoxx, what is your problem with PM’s?  If you don’t have more than enough, QUIT voicing your opinion.  Are you stupid or just XXXXXX?

      8. Jonny V
        people might trade you gold for that !

        “Remember, gold dealers make a living by selling gold rather than buy and holding onto it. This activity is contrary to what one would expect if gold dealers really felt that gold will continue to rise in price. Thus, at the same time dealers are advising you to buy physical gold and hold it long-term, they are buying and selling it. In doing so, dealers are not only taking advantage of the price volatility, they are also maintaining a very liquid position in gold because they realize that one of these price corrections will represent the beginning of the end of the gold bull market. This means they are making money trading gold short-term, which reduces their risk, all while advising you to use a buy-and-hold strategy.
        Moreover, those who make money from gold ads and commercials aren’t spending that money buying gold. Thus, those who own gold must keep these points in mind whenever they hear ridiculous predictions like the end of the dollar and hyperinflation as support for gold price “forecasts” because the best way to make money from gold is to sell it, or else sell the idea that the price of gold has no ceiling.”

        For a different perspective:

      10. what form of currency are bullets?….Liberators and free men!

      11. “If it means” being willing to stop supporting the continuing corruption on April 15, then STOP, and take your hard earned “dollars” and become at least a “gentleman”.

        Anyone who is stupid and fearful enough to pay into THAT system deserves to get reamed. I guess that’s most Americans, huh?

      12. the governments all have  considerable power over commerce and i am continuously plaqued by thoughts of what greedy governments’ reactions will be to very valuable gold and silver in the hands of private individuals.

        will they tax gold and silver.. will they confiscate gold and silver under threats of prison. will they offer rewards to citizens who inform on those who retain  or attempt to use “illegal gold” and/or “illegal silver in everyday commerce?????



        I am very bullish on PMs, but Goldenfoxx’s logic has a certain uncomfortable ring of truth to it.

        Why would a dealer sell you something for $30/oz he truly believes is going to be worth $500/oz?

        That would make them some of the dumbest people on earth.

        On the other hand, perhaps most dealers are not people who believe gold/silver will hit such highs, and are simply content to make their premiums?



           It could also be that most precious metal dealers are not truly convinced of the parabolic potential of the metals (though they may use the rhetoric to boost sales), but are simply content to make their nice premiums (i.e., As what they consider the “safer” move than becomming long-term holders themselves)

      15. I would say rather that labor is the money of slaves….

      16. I ordered silver bullion from NWT mint last november .It still has not arrived. 2 weeks ago I received an e-mail from them, informing me it will take another month to ship!
        Yesterday (the 5th of february ) I received an e-mail from fedex informing me of my shipment’s tracking. The shipment originated in Reno, Nevada. The mint is in Washington.
        I will leave it to you readers what that implies.
        This correlates what Eric Sprott has said recently about acquiring physical metal for his physical silver ETF.
        The less astute bloggers can say what they want about PM’s but the last ten years and the facts of the situation speak louder than words.

        European American… am I to assume that you refer to the absence of federal law that requires american citizens to pay into a voluntary federal income tax system?  If so, how do you justify the risk of an american american defending one’s righteous self in a court of law against a government who can print as many dollars as they need to win?

      18. If the central gangster banksters are buying tons and tons of gold, and if both Russia and China are buying ALL of the production within  their own borders, you can bet the ganster banksters intend to leave the masses with massive amounts of worthless paper, eventually.

        Get gold. I got mine. Get yours.

      19. “gold dealers make a living by selling gold rather than buy and holding onto it.”

        And that’s as it should be, owning gold isn’t supposed to be about getting rich, it’s about maintaining the purchasing power of your savings.

        People who sold houses during the housing bubble also owned numerous homes and properties because they thought the prices would go through the roof.

        Some people say we will know gold is in bubble territory once people do hold onto gold to try and make a living, much like people tried to live off the rising equity in their homes during the housing bubble years.

        Selling gold while thinking it is going Up is not contrary at all, imho.
        Can’t precious metal dealers do both, be long gold and make a profit selling it?
        If a person can’t own All the gold, the next best thing is to make money selling it, don’t you suppose?

        Saying someone is, “maintaining a very liquid position in gold” is kind of off, because that’s the whole point of owning gold, it’s very liquid.

        Awful lot of assumptions, such as, how does anyone know the profits used to advertise for gold sales are not being redirected back into a gold position?

        A farmer might think the price of beef is going to rocket up in the future, but the farmer still has to sell some to earn a living in the meantime, same thing.

      20. The only justification for a government’s existence is to protect the lives, liberty and private property of individuals. When it stops doing that, when its laws become about controlling and looting the citizenry … we the citizens have a right to object. We have an obligation to object. As strenuously as necessary.

        I realize mine is a minority position but I”m not surrendering my firearms, hard shiny property or liberty to government. If “the law” amounts to them giving themselves the “power” to steal what is mine, my attitude is Molon Labe mf. You want them, you come and take them.

        I might not live very long after giving that counter-ultimatum. But unlike many of you, who prefer safety to liberty, I will have lived and died a free man.

        Some things are worth killing and if necessary dying for. Paraphrasing William Wallace, it doesn’t mean a thing if you aren’t free.

        • Well said.

      21. Anonymous said
        “I am very bullish on PMs, but Goldenfoxx’s logic has a certain uncomfortable ring of truth to it.
        Why would a dealer sell you something for $30/oz he truly believes is going to be worth $500/oz?
        That would make them some of the dumbest people on earth.”
        It’s probably best you remain anonymous.
        BECAUSE HE CAN KEEP BUYING AND SELLING THE GOLD ALL THE WAY UP TO $500! AND THE HIGHER IT GOES THE LARGER THE PREMIUM. The premium assures him of a profit, always. So even if he believed the price of gold was headed to $500, would he just hold on to it? No, because his business is always to buy/sell/buy/sell/buy, that’s where he makes his *money*…And the beauty of it for him/her, For ever seller there’s a buyer and vice versa. It doesn’t matter which way the price of gold goes. Up or down. Always a profit if someone is selling or buying. Now, a problem could arise if one too many sellers comes through the door, or one too many buyers. But that’s not going to happen as long as there is a currency, more or less.

        Investing in Gold isn’t what the original post has anything to do with. It’s all about preserving one’s purchasing power. That’s all. The ONLY important, relevant point here to some one who has it will be “What’s the price of an organic loaf of bread?”

        Lastly, to the person who bought at NWT, Silver is still plentiful at most of the coin shops in my neighborhood, even in large quantities. Choose your sources wisely.

        Anonymous said
        “I am very bullish on PMs, but Goldenfoxx’s logic has a certain uncomfortable ring of truth to it.
        Why would a dealer sell you something for $30/oz he truly believes is going to be worth $500/oz?
        That would make them some of the dumbest people on earth.”
        It’s probably best you remain anonymous.
        BECAUSE HE CAN KEEP BUYING AND SELLING THE GOLD ALL THE WAY UP TO $500! AND THE HIGHER IT GOES THE LARGER THE PREMIUM. The premium assures him of a profit, always. So even if he believed the price of gold was headed to $500, would he just hold on to it? No, because his business is always to buy/sell/buy/sell/buy, that’s where he makes “more” *money*…And the beauty of it for him/her, For ever seller there’s a buyer and vice versa. It doesn’t matter which way the price of gold goes. Up or down. Always a profit if someone is selling or buying. Now, a problem could arise if one too many sellers comes through the door, or one too many buyers. But that’s not going to happen as long as there is a currency.

        Investing in Gold isn’t what the original post has anything to do with. It’s all about preserving one’s purchasing power. That’s all. The ONLY important, relevant point here to some one who has it will be “What’s the price of an organic loaf of bread?”

        Lastly, to the person who bought at NWT, Silver is still plentiful at most of the coin shops in my neighborhood, even in large quantities. Choose your sources wisely.

      23. silver will do better than gold based on supply/demand.

      24. I just read that opposing view that Goldenfoxx posted. It’s a good thing to look at it from all views. Always appreciated.
        People ask why dealers would sell their gold and silver if they feel it will go up. One BIG reason is that they are getting a good commission on the sales and buys–not much different that a brokerage firm. Commission for an ounce of silver runs about 75 cents up to $1.25 per ounce (USD)–usually a buck.
        Commission on buying an ounce of gold is usually around $35-$45. These are the prices on the west coast of the U.S.. Not sure about other areas. So, PM dealers can make a nice living on the commissions AND have a nice supply of PMs on hand most days. Best of both worlds. Why not?
        Why hold it all when you can make money every day (coming and going/buying & selling)–and still hold your own stash?
        For the record, I’m not buying into the predictions of $5K + for gold. I could see maybe double from here, maybe. Silver is another story,  more upside in my view. It has a lot of industrial applications and it’s below it’s historic highs.

      25. We now have an even bigger problem.  The magnetic poles are shifting and we are going to be thrashed with monster storms and  cancer causing ultra violet rays. Get a strong drink and check out this site because this is the stuff thats going to upend out normal lives.

      26. The website is

      27. Clark, you make to much cents!  I like the way you think.  Johny V, you crack me up!  I like Hooters two.  They are hot but best served warm with a unbearded shucked hot buttered oyster with a little horse on it.  Mr. Physical, google reviews for PM dealers.  Many others that have ordered from NWT have ordered from them, once.  You will get it.  I did.  Their trade mark Ag is pretty but not worth the delay for a few cents less.  They UYM.
        For those that can’t figure out why people sell/buy PM, are you crazy or just stupid?  A couple of those and you can make a cocktail.  What happened to your lip?  Better tuck that in or you’ll get it caught on a trip wire.  That’s my boat.  Don’t you be thinking I’ll call you sir.  We got more money than Davy Crokett.  We sure got you straighten out, did we?

      28. “Anonymous” wrote a comment above which is very, very similar to something I’ve been thinking lately…

        Why would anyone sell you anything (e.g., gold), if they truly believed that it’s value is going to go way up in the (near) future?

        (I apologize in advance for the rambling…)

        In contrast, consider a truly, inherently useful item…such as a car.  When a dealer sells you a car, both parties realize that the car is going to depreciate over time (with some exceptions, like classic cars) regardless of whether or not the car is driven/used.  Generally, the buyer is planning to use the car and is paying for that use/depreciation.  If the dealer thought that the car was going to appreciate over time/with use, he might not want to sell it at all (or at least not now).

        …and if he thought a car that is worth $20K (in real terms) now would be worth $50K (in real terms) in a few years, wouldn’t he want to keep it?

        Sure, maybe he needs money now – for food, etc – so he might not have a choice…

        Now, if I had and pile gold coins in my basement, and I really believed that their value (at least nominal value) was going to shoot way up…and help me preserve my wealth…Why the hell would I want to sell them now?

        I just don’t see the logic in it.

        Now, obviously, I’m not a huge gold/PM bug.  As I’ve said before, IF things get VERY ugly, I’m not sure if anyone is going to care about PMs…well, at least gold.  That is, at the end of the day, the only reason why anyone wants MOST PMs is that they think it’s value is going to go up, and they will later be able to buy/barter other stuff with it in the future.  More specifically, they don’t want the PM itself…they want to be able to trade it for something else at a later time (just like any currency).

        That is why, I personally believe PMs (e.g., gold) are, IN A SENSE, no different than fiat currencies.  Yep, I said it.

        People don’t give a darn about money/currency itself – they just want it so they can trade for/buy stuff with it in the future.  Similarly, MOST gold buyers (especially right now), for the most part, don’t want gold itself…they just think/hope that someone else will want it in the future, so they can use it to buy/trade for other, inherently useful items (like food and energy).

        Now, I’m NOT saying that I think PMs are a bad investment right now – at all.  In fact, for the time being, they seem a whole lot safer than pretty much anything else.  I’m simply saying that IF thing get VERY ugly…like Mad Max ugly…I could definitely see PMs (especially gold) losing their luster compared to items with inherent usefulness, like food, clothing, weapons, fuel/energy, etc.

        HOWEVER, I will add that IMHO, the much/most of the gains we’ve seen in equities AND commodities over the past couple of years is due in large part to speculation and FEAR of inflation, as opposed to inflation itself (depending on how one defines inflation and/or currency devaluation).  Therefore, I think there is a good chance we are experience what is nothing more than an asset bubble right now…but I have no idea when it will pop.

        Again, sorry for the rambling.

      29. Gold/silver doesn’t grow a bubble, it just sits there.  Fiat money is a bubble.

      30. “Why would a dealer sell you something for $30/oz he truly believes is going to be worth $500/oz?
        That would make them some of the dumbest people on earth.”

        Although adequately explained above, I’ll add this:

        Just as we use the “profits” from our day job to convert paper fiat to ounces of metal, I would assume that dealers are doing the exact same thing.  The sales of metal are their “day job”…..the profits are being used, in part, to stack their own core positions higher and deeper.

        I see no conflict of opinion in what they do.

      31. I am new to all this, and have been trying to save some extra money and invest in some silver, maybe some silver rounds and an affordable “junk” bag….I sure as heck can’t afford the 1,000.00 face value bag…it’s like 21K. Anyway after reading the guys post up above about waiting forever for his silver to get mailed to him I am nervous as how to go about selecting a company to buy from? Why would his silver be coming from Reno if the mint is in Washington??
        Anyway any suggestions on companies or how to select a reputable and good one to order from??


      32. Anonymous

        “…Ok, I’m calling it!!  Lady Hawk & Goldenfoxx, what is your problem with PM’s?  If you don’t have more than enough, QUIT voicing your opinion.  Are you stupid or just XXXXXX?…”
        Probably it’s the stupid thing.  I view gold and silver as I do other “precious” currencies used throughout the ages and societies.  To name a few: diamonds, copper, jade, rocks, sea shells, shark teeth, animal pelts, beads, salt, iron and spices. The spice trade was huge.  Frankincense, myrrh, cinnamon, ginger, saffron, peppercorns -all precious. So precious they were transported in locked chests and Kings kept them in the royal treasury.
        Like gold and silver, societies and the people involved establish the value based on the importance of the items to the community. At one time, pepper was so highly valued that its price was measured in individual peppercorns. In the SHTF Jericho series, salt was a prized currency and commodity. All these items are measurable and payable and were and could become the communities  currency used to pay taxes and rent, buy land, horse, sheep, cows or like the Chinese of the Ming Dynasty an iron knife for a bride.
        My twenty plus years SHTF prepping, isn’t just about an empire decaying and an economic meltdown, which I agree having PM’s beneficial, if one has the resources. The main event for me factors in the reoccurring upheavals of the earth and the increase to the present extremes in weather, quakes, plate movement and volcanic activity. Precursors of a cyclical coming pole shift.
        Such an event will be an episode where having tangible artifacts will make the difference of whether one is living a third world or first world existence. With my finite resources, I choose to invest and accumulate those items that will facilitate the later. Hopefully, the excess items stocked can be a base for future barter and trade. I especially look forward to setting a value on my barter goods and supplies with those holding only gold and silver.

      33. @BJ. eBay has plenty of good deals if you watch and wait for them

      34. Johny V.  Who is Frank and why do you dry off his wings?

      35. Ladyhawk…  I can appreciate your statements about money, gold, and silver, and your ideas about real happiness.  I agree that cash and PM’s won’t buy you happiness…  BUT, they WILL buy you freedom.  And that is a big part of achieving happiness.  I hope at some point you do acquire them, Lady, just to help you along with your goals.  Good luck to all and keep preppin’.

      36. I’m diversifying my teotwawki investment portfolio into PM’s, food, personal defense, survival gear/commodities & survival skill knowledge.

        There will be different phases of pre & post teotwawki… I prefer to be prepared for all of them.

      37. APMEX has a great selection of gold and silver. I almost never have a problem with a waiting period. You can buy junk silver by the roll or single silver dollars.

      38. Comments….. Anonymoron said:

        Ok, I’m calling it!!  Lady Hawk & Goldenfoxx, what is your problem with PM’s?  If you don’t have more than enough, QUIT voicing your opinion.  Are you stupid or just XXXXXX?

        You’re calling it?  Calling what?  I haven’t a problem with PM’s, I have some myself. What other people invest in is no business of mine.  Why are so upset?  If you are comfortable with your investment that’s okay.  But shedding a different light on the subject isn’t okay with you? Are you now feeling uncomfortable with your decision to buy and hold gold or silver?

        BTW, I will never quit voicing my opinion, and that kind of remark from you is STUPID! 🙂

      39. Ladyhawk said: “With my finite resources, I choose to invest and accumulate those items that will facilitate the later. Hopefully, the excess items stocked can be a base for future barter and trade. I especially look forward to setting a value on my barter goods and supplies with those holding only gold and silver.”

        You may be disappointed, as many of us that have bought metals have also bought a supply of the same thing you’re stocking.  My recommendation whenever anyone asks “how much silver should I buy ? ” is to ask how much food do they store…..and go from there.

        Barter, will, no doubt, have a role in a post SHTF economy….but so will metals.  The whole PURPOSE of money is to be a store of value.  You raise a crop of watermelons, and you have a very limited time to market them…it’s NOT like you can set them on the shelf and sell them 6 months later.   So you sell ( or trade ) them for money ( hopefully, next time around, REAL money ) so 6 months down the road, you can buy beef ( or whatever ).

        Real money tends to develop a relationship with real goods.   How much time and effort did it take to raise ONE watermelon ?  Hour or two, total, when spread over the whole patch ?

        Now, how much time and effort did it take to extract one ounce of gold or silver from the earth ?  ( Watch the TV show “Alaskan Gold”… far, they’ve spend 275k and four months of effort for a few ounces of gold….they could have raised 5,000 acres of watermelons with less effort…..ahahaaaa )

        SO, don’t sit there so smug, and think folks are going to trade an ounce of gold for a pound of your salt…..because most likely, it’s never gonna happen.

      40. And PART 2 is:

        WHAT is plan B in case the economy DOESN’T fall to SHTF level ??

        See, most LIKELY, the economy is going to do just what it’s done for the last 100 years.  The FED is going to keep on printing, running the value of the dollar on down… is going to go “up” in fiat dollar terms ( but not in real purchasing power ), and silver may go to the moon as the shortage of it as an industrial metal becomes known.

        Sitting on a pile of barter items is fine, if YOU can use them yourself….but what most people will need is MO MONEY….to buy the things you can’t stock….bananas, gasoline, etc…and since they are going further and further in the hole due to FED created inflation, then it MIGHT be prudent to have Plan B as savings in some metals.

      41. PM dealers sell metals because they run a business, and a business is all about cash flow. Many of them probably do also have personal stacks of PMs.

      42. @ BJ –

        There are a couple of places out there online who will sell you bags of $100 & $50 face value of ‘junk’ 90% silver. The guy down at your local coin shop has a few #10 cans somewhere with 90% US silver coins in them. These days it’s worth North of $20 FRN for every $1 face value of pre 1965 silver that you buy. Even if you’re only able to aford $1 worth of silver every week; it adds up to $52 worth of 90% silver put away over the course of a year.

        Everybody who touches a coin on the way to the internet seller as well as your local coin shop adds their profit to the price of the coin. It’s called a ‘premium’.  The nice couple that owns the local coin shop that I patronize like me well enough; but they are still going to charge me $5 – $6 premium for each and every Silver Eagle that I buy from them. The premium on the total sales for each month enable the owner to pay the rent, keep the lights turned on, etc. and pay his own ‘wages’. If they don’t buy and sell then they don’t make any premium profits. There is no ‘margin-in-the-middle’ for them to take advantage of.

        If you are going to go with single(s) of the US minted Silver Eagles; then invest the extra $1.50 and get an ‘air-tite’ container, the one with the black foam rubber ring and tight seal, for each coin. Pure silver tarnishes quickly otherwise. It doesn’t cost a lot to keep your investment looking as good as the day you got it.

        Good Luck & God Bless

      43. Comments…..I buy silver to protect the buying power of what wealth I am able to save.  I have my emergency fund in American dollars.  I have almost 1 years supply of food.  I, also, have guns and ammo for physical protection.  I have accumalated medical, clothing, cleaning tools to assure myself that I will be able to function on a daily basis in the comfort that I am enjoying now.

        Precious metals are not the answer to all of our problems, but part of a larger basket of bartering tools.  This basket will help us navigate through the world that is about to desend on the all of us in the near future.

        If the heavy hand of government rule is diverted from its path, so much the better.  I will have many of the items that I need to continue living and the assurance of protection for my future.

        All of us need to look at what we need to gather for our continued survival.  Start prepping now.

        Good luck.

      44. Well said TnAndy on both parts. 

      45. @BJ….You’re local coin shop should be able to set you up with any “junk” silver you want. I called around, found one nearby, and have bought a bunch of pre’64 quarters, dimes, and silver eagles…..Says with things still heading south, he’s also taking alot in, always plenty on hand…. 

      46. Rather than strictly looking ahead to ho the metals will play a role post-SHTF, why not exercise a little prudence, pick up a few silver rounds or Eagles, and see what happens in March?

        I mean really, how often do any of us get advance notice of such a shortage, as is lining up at the Comex now? Yes, nickels are worth .07 cents, but when a complete shutdown of deliverable supply of ANYTHING hits the wall, why would you not want to be part of that?

        The article I linked at the top is excellent, in terms of where we are at this moment. But the last line of the piece holds so much truth. It is the fact that once silver supply is depleted, manufacturers will keep bidding up the price until someone purges their supply. They simply NEED what you have!

        So, in a post-SHTF environment, as industry is rebuilt, they will STILL need your silver. It will be vital to rebuilding our society. And if it becomes used as money again, that’s just gravy.

        So if you’re more inclined to build other preps, why not get a little silver, and cash in after the chaos of March/April, and buy more preps? It doesn’t have to be about just about an apocalyptic world. Make use of it now.

        If you don’t have the means, look at your next shopping trip. Is there anything on that list you can sacrifice for $30-35 to have something that retains such value, and might very well go to the moon?

        That’s not being greedy, that’s covering your bases if the dollar goes. You will simply need to take the avenue of PMs.

        p.s. And yes, my dealer already has his own stockpile of metals. The business is for that daily cashflow, whether gold and silver are up or down, he will profit.

      47. p.p.s And just from a personal perspective, I can tell you this. For all the ramblin’ on about whether or not metals will serve any purpose in the days of bartering, and whether they’re just some filthy relic. I ABSOLUTELY expect to trade any excess preps and barter items for said metals, as well as any other skills I might have to offer.

        There are many of us out there who desire them. Those are who is going to take your metals for payment. This is why this system of exchange in gold and silver has lasted for millenia. There will be a strong market for them, and likely, it will be expected as payment.

      48. Mona….Comments…..Precious metals are not the answer to all of our problems, but part of a larger basket of bartering tools.  This basket will help us navigate through the world that is about to desend on the all of us in the near future.

        It’s called

      49. Sorry My fingers are think this morning….Hell…you know what I meant!!!.

      50. If you really believe there is no constitutional requirement to pay your federal income taxes I can introduce you to a friend of mine recently back from three years in federal prison who believed the same thing.  He went to great lengths to do all the “correct” things to prove he did not have to pay taxes and was sincere in his beliefs and not some skulking tax cheat.  But he lost and went to jail AND had to pay all back taxes, interest and fines as well.

      51. Lady Hawk, I couldn’t of said it better!!   Gold and silver mean little to me, I cashed some old jewelry in when gold spiked.  I had silver and it tanked, like gold after y2k, so I  now collect new $10, 20s, 50s , $100s in bills and keep ’em in a large fireproof gun safe.  Ammo is great for barter as is spices, herbs and  cooking oil,  coffee, tea,sugar salt, first aid kits, clothing, etc.  Everyone has their idea of survival preps., and many don’t agree with others on what to store and value.  So be it, and I’ll keep on collecting  cash as I draw out my 401k and put some aside and use the rest for travel and fun.

      52. Comments…..Dennis…I’ve been looking back but can’t find the article you mentioned. WHAT is expected in March/April???

      53. Gone with the wind (how appropriate, I put you in the “slave” category)

        Your friend didn’t know enough.
        At least though he/she was willing to make a stand, unlike the rest who bend over and proclaim “be my guest, stick it here”.

        Of the 53 posts here (assuming anonymous didn’t post more than once):

        4 Kings

        5 Gentleman

        8 Peasants

        25 Slaves

        Some people just can’t fathom life outside their box (normalcy bias/denial). Guess that’s why slaves are so plentiful.

        Any wonder why we’re in such bad shape?

      54. That’s phunie Euro-Amer!  U cut it right to the bone.

      55. 4 reasons to own gold:
        1)  a hedge against economic downturns
        2) barter
        3) bribes
        4) to cast into bullets when 1-3 no longer work. (be sure to use up all of the lead first though).

      56. Virtual Routing Forwarding, if you google Table of Elements and look at element number 82 you will find what the composition of precious bullets are.  We know you know.

      57. I’m a KING!

      58. I don’t even have to out of my cave to dig up some PM’s but I do have to go to the entrance to get free WIFI. 

      59. Loa,
        Go to the very first post in this thread. I highlighted a key paragraph from the article itself, for which you’ll see the link just below it.
        What’s coming in March (specifically), but I added April just for good measure, is a moment when the greatest shortage of silver (with gold to soon follow), we have ever witnessed, is brought upon this planet. It’s what’s known as ‘standing for delivery’.
        Besides the ‘usual’ cashing in of paper contracts all throughout the year, into physical metal by manufacturers, foreign citizens (and their governments), ourselves…. there are gold and silver contracts which have scheduled delivery months.
        Contracts are pre-purchased quantities of metals, that only get delivered several times a year, with different months for gold and silver each. For gold, it was February (January was not a delivery month, though you could still cash in your own paper ounces for physical, just not contracts). March however, is for silver, and the numbers are staggering!
        And whenever they say ‘contracts’, that means 100 ounces of gold per contract, and silver is 500 per contract. So you can figure how big some of these are!
        So when a contract month rolls around, or is in our sights, like now, you can track how many ounces are being cashed in from their paper form to physical for delivery, all piling up, along with the contract numbers about to come up.
        Contract holders have a choice. Cash in for physical, or roll those same contracts into the next delivery month available, with the hopes the price  goes up even higher.
        But NOW, there is the steady (trackable) drumbeat of those that plan to ‘stand for delivery’! And the numbers now officially exceed by quite some margin, the actual physical on hand that the bullion banks (COMEX), and crooked operations like JP Morgan and HSBC, have available. In March, NOT EVERYONE IS GETTING THEIR SILVER! Pandemonium WILL ensue. There just isn’t enough to go around. SO we can imagine.  🙂

        To keep track of the status and severity of this event, visit Harvey as well as,, and Zero I rank Harvey’s as the best, although it involves alot of tech jargon. But he always has a very clear summary that we can all understand somewhere in his updates.

        MARCH! I’m watchin’ it like a hawk!

        p.s. References to ‘Contango’ mean the difference in spot price now, compared to when the contract comes up. It should be higher than today, of course.
        Backwardation is when the price NOW is higher than the forecasted price when the contract comes due (This does not take into account the other extraneous issues at play, such as the breaking of the banks now underway). We are in backwardation now, which means it is in every investor’s best interest to get the most metal for their buck right now! And in silver, they say, this is the first time ever for this to happen! There is NO incentive for those with paper gold and silver to wait. So they will likely stand for delivery, rather than roll it over!

        So, ‘zero contango’ means, you ain’t makin’s a dime. Backwardation means, stick with this contract, and you’ll lose money, so best to get out now!

        And the reason the price is higher now than anticipated, is due to the premiums being charged on all metals, due to their unforeseen shortage!

        Good luck! And yes, prep on.  🙂

      60. Oh, and by the way, when this plays out, and physical gold and silver exceed their ability to deliver, these investors will be coming to buy out whatever they can at your local coin dealers. So in case anyone thought they were immune from the actions of the ‘big players’ on Wall St., they will literally, walk into shops everywhere, and say, “I’ll take all the silver you have”. There are already reports of such occurances.

        This is why we need to do our part (For those interested in PMs, of course), and get ours now! After March, all bets are off!

        And one of the biggest games the bullion banks are playing now, to avert armageddon in their supply situation, is to throw wild amounts of cash at those looking to convert to metal from paper (read: bribed), in the hopes of conserving enough for those that will demand delivery. But these guys taking delivery know, “I’ll only have to go round it up in the open market anyway once I get the cash, and the metals might not be found! Nah…I’ll take the metal, thanks.”

        And that is happening now.

        (And based on the quoted numbers in the article at the top, only 1 in 15 will ever be seeing their metals delivered! The rest… Shoulda bought physical, and stayed out of that ponzi scheme)

      61. Comments…..Sorry folks. None of us will ever control inflation, prices, corporate profits, GOV policy etc.. so we all have to realise those things are out of our hands. Unless you are totally independently wealthy meaning that you have zero debt, paid off houses and millions of dollars and diversified investments you are probably part of the debt/slave syndrome. That is reality and has always been that way. 

        Gold and precious metals are only good as hedges against future inflation and if the GRID really goes down and the whole world is affected, then those will be useless anyway. Food, water, guns, ammo and barter items will be the new currency. Food and water have a shelf life and only last so long so we all need to get our minds around that idea. Hopefully it never comes to fruition because this world will be a very sad and horrible place.  Do your best to prepare for whatever scenario you deem to be the most terrible and frightening.
        Warm wishes to you all.

      62. Boston Bullion for PM.  Lots test appropriately…so far so good.  He has had some shortages of recent.  Just talk to’ll talk to the owner directly.

      63. Many moons ago, I read a book called “Champagne Living on a Beer Budget.”

        I realized I didn’t really want champagne when good beer would suit me just fine. The lesson I learned was living as far below my means as possible and still be comfortable.

        Any surplus funds went towards wealth preservation and wealth generation. Most of my business ventures failed because of my casualness. However I accumulated a vast set of tolls and the skills to use them.

        My point is that PMs are just a mechanism for wealth preservation. FRNs lose purchasing power over time. You lose just the same whether it is FRNs,  carrot seeds or tools left out in the rain. What you buy today is going to cost more tomorrow. So you are preserving tomorrow’s wealth by purchasing today. It can be rice, a wrench or a revolver.

        The FRNs are transactional currency. The intended purpose is to conduct a transaction and NOT wealth preservation. BTW PMs are considered collectables for tax purposes.

        I would submit that it is far better to live as a peasant and keep the king/gentleman capability quiet. Laboring all day is honorable. Bartering promotes commerce among the peasantry. PMs and tool rental are for the aged and infirm. Open displays of poverty must be the standard. Live below your means. Keep your fool mouth shut about all your wealth.

        I am content to be considered a peasant. During the French Revolution, kings and gentlemen lost their heads. Pol Pot wiped out the intellectuals. Same with the Maoists and re-education camps. Peasants aren’t usually considered viable threats and are usually considered not worth the time to bother with. Besides, the peasant is a cheap labor source. Labor is honorable.

        Maximum flexability in the face of adversity is the key to success. I dig ditches “Cheap”. Even cheaper if you toss in a couple of good meals and some India Pale Ale to wash it down.

        Champagne living on a beer budget is do-able. Always remember, “The difference between new and used is less than 10 minutes.”

      64. Everyone knows you cannot eat gold/silver!    lol

        If you are still looking at gold in terms of fiat dollars,  you are missing the point.    The time is coming ( I believe sooner, than latter) when gold will not trade at any price.

        Who would trade an oz of gold for a 100 trillion Zimbabwe dollars?

        Sure, you can’t eat gold…..but you don’t eat paper dollars or stocks, or bonds, either,  but which one do you think will still have purchasing power , when  the SHTF?     I will bet on gold.

      65. If i have food, and you dont, but you  have gold, or silver..

        I will gladly serve you a bowl of hot oatmeal and a glass of water for what ever i say its worth in gold…, dont agree? move along nothing to see here 

        see how food can be worth way more to a starving human than any chunk of metal..

        Just food for thought,, no one has to agree..or like my thinking..just throwing it out there for ya’ll

      66. hedge..have to disagree with you there, Both Mao and Stalin wiped out millions of poor farmers

      67. Comments….. Okay, we’ve had how many disasters in the world in just the past 6 months?  And was the the #1 commodity missing for survival?  Food, then water, then shelter. In Egypt, the rich hopped on their jets and left. The banks just now reopened after being closed for 2 weeks.  The people left had to fiend for themselves.  What do governments do when they want to eliminate people?  They starve them and disease them.  Easier to dig mass graves than to bury them one-by-one.  Haiti for instance.  Then the flooding in Australia, food was another resource hard to get, including water even though they were surrounded by it.  How about all these snow storms – food again flying off the shelf. Money was used to buy supplies.  No store demanded payment in gold or silver.  Heck, just use your CC or ATM card if you have money.

        I have some gold and silver – I didn’t purchase it, I inherited it.  I feel better about my other survival stuff than the silver and gold.  I don’t see any sense in arguing about it.  Life is fragile.

      68. OTE: Back in 2000 when I was buying a new Ford 4×4 I was waiting for my truck when the guy ahead of me drove his new Mustang off the lot, crossed two lanes of empty traffic and was sitting in the left hand turn lane waiting for the light, when a truck coming from the other direction at high speed lost control and slammed into his new car. Fortunately he wasn’t killed.

        It took about 45 seconds, max.

      69. @AZ  
        What’s a good deal in your opinion in regards to you saying look on Ebay for good deals in silver. I looked tonight and see junk coins, silver bars from 1 gram to 100 ounces and all sorts of coins with pandas to E.T getting a kiss on them….most are way more that 29.31 an ounce, which is what silver closed at today I believe…bare with me folks I am really nervous and scared right now with no damn job and a family who depends on me and I am very new to all this precious metals (or any market for that matter) and “prepping” and really don’t know much yet. I get unemployment every two weeks and I have 250.00 saved up.

        @ POLYMATH
        Junk silver by the roll?? I haven’t seen that anywhere on line? Where can I look for that? Or is that something I have to drive around to coin shops looking for? Can you get pre 1965 coin rolls at the bank? Sorry if that’s a stupid question.

        @ MADMARKIE
        Lowest face value for junk bags I seen was 100$ Is there lower than thatlike maybe 5$, 10$ or 15$ bags?, if so where can I find it?   And what does FRN mean? What should a silver eagle go for??  AZ mentioned up above, good eals on Ebay. Again what would you consider a “good deal”.  I think silver closed at 29.31 today?

        @ 11BRAVO
        Thanks….we, the wife and I, just became members of a forum called survivalist boards and we were really excited & hoped to meet some local people here in Michigan…strength in numbers and we know nothing and need/have to learn a lot and in a hurry. We don’t know anything about food storage, prepping, markets and PM’s or survival skills.We don’t really learn much through just reading and electronic communication….it just isn’t the same as personal relations with people and being able to see, listen adn do along weith someone….hope that makes sense? Plus that site has way over 100 thousand threads and posts and is very overwhelming and you just get lost and there are a thousand differnet voices telling you this or that…you get my point. We are both very disheartened to learn that no one, even in the state group of Michigan wants to meet…….very paranoid group of people. Which is sad because there is strength in numbers and the more people in a group with skills and knowledge the better. Sad how society has become so un-personal.

        Anyway these questions are open for anyone to answer, I just directed tham back at the person that brought the question to my mind.

        Thanks in advance for your alls help

      70. Comments…..Hi everybody…
        I wanted to give BJ a new reader and the rest of you an idea for getting cheap silver…thrift stores, garage sales, estate sales and other such locations.. sure you only find something every 3 or 4 visits and some places seem to get such items as donations and some just don’ will get a feel for it with a little practice.. just using your Saturdays 2 or 3 times a month you should be able to harvest 50 to 100 ounces of sterling (925/1000 silver) annually.  For this year I am averaging paying almost $15 an ounce for it…prices are rising though and people are beginning to be not so stupid as to give away precious metals anymore..a couple years ago I could get twice as much for an average of about $8 an ounce.. Still its a fun way to spend your for you out there still prepping, its amazing how many supplies you can take home to help you prepare which will cost you pennies on the dollar this way… cheap is not a bad thing…throwing away your money (or at least its purchasing power) unwisely is… Heck…make it a family fun day…with some practice, you will learn how to search a store for gold or silver in less than 10 minutes… a few grams here and there…sometimes you will score big too… I got a 17 ounce sterling platter..yes fully hallmarked and dented up a bit) for a grand total of $3.95 last weekend…you do the math…even at a 50% discounted scrap metal price…I paid for my gas and time…you can too…good hunting

      71. BJ: Start your own group. Find like minded families and couples. Take the initiative and organize!

      72. is there a difference between sterling silver and just regular silver? And how can you tell what it really is or how much it weighs before buying it? I read somewhere that certain kinds of silver ware wont be accepted at places that buy cause the knives  have things inside them that aren’t silver and somethings are just silver plated?? How do you know if you really have silver?

      73. BJ   You’re buying silver to hold value. Forget the silverware. You need to buy a recognizable coin/bar if you want to re-sale or barter later. That’s if you want to go that route. First things first. Sounds like you’re in a position where food and neccesities should be at the top of the list. Prices of everything will be much higher 6 months from now. Buy everything you think you will use and need and you will save 20-50%. That’s like buying silver @ $30 and selling for $40. Best investment you could make.

      74. Some questions and conclusions generated by this thread:

        Did the dip in PM’s Marc Faber was talking about already happen, or has it yet to happen, or will it never happen?

        Gold crashed in 2001 because Gordon Brown gave away the UK’s gold at fire-sale prices. Who benefited from that?
        It’s hard to imagine any country or the IMF doing that now and being able to drive down the price significantly, and certainly not with silver as they don’t have any, as far as I can determine.

        I’ve read that gold makes for lousy ball ammo, but I suppose some is better than none. Same with silver. What about composites, or for the new Helix shotgun shells?

        Dennis, have you read where others say China is the short seller and not JP, et al and the drive to get Americans to own silver is an attempt to thwart that?

        Truthseeker says, “Food and water have a shelf life and only last so long”
        GA Mom and I just went over part of this the other day, bottled water does not have a shelf life, and neither do some foods. Mind-wrapping, isn’t it? The issue then becomes one of storage, transportability, divisibility, and widespread recognition and acceptance.
        Things will have to be pretty dire before I view: guns I don’t like, ammo I don’t need or can use, clothes I don’t want to wear, or a ball of rancid moose fat, as worthy for trade.

        Even If you have zero debt, paid off houses and millions of dollars and diversified investments you are still (physically) a slave to the system and the Power Elite.
        Freedom is a state of mind, but having those things might get you a long way towards there.

        “Champagne Living on a Beer Budget” is that the new, “Lifestyles of the Rich and Famous”?
        Those who are poorer might think so?

        PMs Are considered collectibles for tax purposes.
        Wouldn’t it be great if the IRS was abolished?

        How could “the gold window” ever shut? A.k.a. when gold will not trade at any price. Seems to me there are too many people with gold and a desire for things and services they don’t already have for that to happen.

        Perhaps the Rock Scissors Paper game applies with gold and silver?
        There are two ways to go about it, by force and fraud, or by free market trade.

        Saw some videos online of grocery stores accepting silver as payment, however; it wasn’t demanded, for that matter, Dollars (FRN’s, Federal Reserve Notes) weren’t demanded either, only “payment” was demanded or more precisely, “accepted” instead of demanded.

        Some things are more important than life itself, for some that varies, for others it never wavers.

        Up or down, just passing through, a thousand different points of light along the way, some good, some not.

        For the most part, things are determined by what’s in the fine print or stamped on the bottom.

      75. My point is that a used diamond beats no diamond at all. Buy it new and it becomes used instantly. Hence the key to purchasing is, “Why buy new if used will fill the need?” If you spend less per, you have the money to buy more per’s. In the past 30 years, I have never paid more than $1700 for a vehicle (pick-ups) and all of them are the same brand. Think in-situ used parts house.

        Find the book and read it. Keep in mind that it is dated, but the principles are still the same. Champagne living on a beer budget is exactly the way I live and I live well.  If I were to confine myself to traveling by foot or bicycle, I could survive fairly well on $300/month. I had better mention that this area of Alaska has no property taxes or local gov’t. Hence if you want services, you have to contract for it yourself and bear all the costs. And I have no indoor plumbing. I have to haul water from a subscription well ($50/year). I cut and haul my own firewood. I burn or compost everything I can and contract garbage hauling twice a year (2-$28). I barter likes for likes (a tax thingy). If I must buy, I attempt to buy used, including clothes. Second-hand stores, garage and yard sales are my siren-songs. I grow a large garden that usually produces a surplus. I can get my PMs out of the river a few kilometers away. The premium I pay is the labor to pack equipment to and from the river. Hmm, $300/month times 12 months equals 3.5 ounces to get by.  At $1350/ozt, 3.5 ounces is $4725. The difference is fineness, assay costs, refiner profit margin and taxes/production royalties. But I already knew this. If I can do the job, I never turn down it down. Many jobs paid under $100 total.  My smallest? $15  A country boy can survive. A smart country boy accumulates wealth. 

        We interrupt this program for a sidenote:
        Just as one man’s junk is another man’s treasure, so is one man’s wealth another man’s trash. What my heirs do with my stuff doesn’t mean squat to me. When I’m gone, my personal valuation of my property is gone.
        We now return to to the drivel being put forth by someone who is obviously over the edge of sanity as defined by society.

        I live below my means and I am happy, well-fed and have fun on a daily basis. I got rid of my last credit card a year ago. Talk about withdrawl pain!!! It passed over a few months and I only miss the card when some fool urge to buy crap hits. Hint: if you don’t desperately need it, it’s crap.

        P.S. I supplement my income by selling the crap I bought when I was a good little consumer. If I don’t need it, it is worth exactly what the market dictates. Dollar-wise, I took the beating when I bought it, not when I sell it for pennies on the dollar. The pennies are transactional currency, so I can now buy something I actually need even if it is just a gum eraser for my drafting table.

        PPS. You can make a great drafting table from a sink cut-out available from cabinet makers. My kitchen cabinets cost $150 for a complete take-out from a kitchen remodel, double sink included. In rural Alaska no less. Imagine in the more populated parts of the country?

        It is all about out-go. As long as outgo <  income, no problem. Outgo = income, you survive. Outgo > income, bye-bye.

      76. overtheedge,
        Good stuff. If ONLY you could convert Bernanke, Geithner, Obama, et al (and maybe 90% of Americans) to the “Alaskan School of Economics”.

      77. Oops…forgot CONGRESS in that short list.

        “Just be glad you’re not gettin’ all the government you’re payin’ for.”
        Will Rogers 

      78. isn’t it funny how the jobs where suppose to return in 2 years. Then it became five years. The real jobs aren’t coming back. Buying gold and silver won’t save you. You will have to save yourself.

        WAKE THE HELL UP AMERICA! – “Join the Revolution”
        Read “Common Sense 3.1” at ( )
         We don’t have to live like this anymore. “Spread the News”

      79. Gold is the money of kings.
        Silver is the money of gentleman.
        Barter is the money of peasants.
        Debt is the money of slaves.
        While the above may be true, having huge amounts of gold may not make you a king. Tremendous store of silver may not make you gentleman. No matter how much barter you do, it will not turn you into a peasant. Any of those could happen, but it will be your choice.
        But, one thing for ABSOLUTE SURETY: Enough debt *WILL* make you a slave regardless of your status as a king, gentleman or peasant.
        If you have too much debt, you will be a slave to the system. …and that means if you have to many FRNs. They represent debt, not money.
        Why do I say this? Its because of Grandpa’s 10 dollars. In 1930 my Grandpa took a weeks pay (10 dollars) and took it out in silver dollars and put it in a little bag. The next week he got a 10 dollar bill and put it in an envelope.
        Last year he gave me the bag of silver and he gave my brother the envelope with the 10 dollar bill in it.
        Think about who got screwed and why. The silver represents value. The 10 dollar bill represents debt. Debt screws *YOU* every time. Yet, we bring up our kids to think student loans are OK. Debt is OK. We are a dumbass society.

      80. NetRanger
        I’m assuming the silver amounted to 10 silver dollars. Of course, it depends on the condition and year of those 10 silver dollars to determine their value and it could be a heft amount. However, on the other hand, that $10 bill might be a gold or silver certificate. It’s possible that bill could be worth between $300 and $700, or more, depending on year and condition. Maybe your brother didn’t get “screwed.”

      81. Comments…..   hey guys,  I just thought I’d let you know of something I’m going to try.  I went to the bank today, and ordered a bag of 50 cent pieces.  it’s the same thing the bank orders when they order 50 cent pieces.   it costs $500 dollars.  here’s the deal.  sometimes, pre 64 coins get left in the mix.  if you don’t know already, pre 64 50 cent pieces are worth about $10 each at today’s prices.  If I don’t find any, I just run the 50 cent pieces back through the coin counter at the bank, a little at a time, and get my money back.  No loss of money, and maybe get a couple silver 50 cent pieces.  I watched a youtube video recently, and the guy got 11 silver 50 cent pieces from a box of rolled 50 centers. That’s $110 profit and no loss. if i can get a couple silver  50 cent pieces, that would be worth the trouble.  I’ll let you guys know how it turns out.  For people on a tight budget, this is a no brainer . if you find none, you haven’t lost a dime.  If you’re out of a job, you have the free time to look.
             Also, for those on a budget, do the same routine with pennies. I think it’s pre 1982 pennies are all copper, and currently worth over a penny. if you’ve checked the price of copper lately–wow.  Sooner or later, these all copper pennies will make it into the melting pot.
            Lastly, do the same thing with nickels.  The nickel has more that 5 cents worth of nickel.  Buy the boxes of rolled nickels from your bank, and hold on to them.  Sooner or later, the price rise in all the metals will make these coins well worth the effort in stockpiling.  if you’re out of a job, this can bring in some needed income, a little at a time.
            good luck

      82. Greaseman……I have already done this. I have not had any l;uck so far. I have purchased 2 full boxes of 500.00 but have not found any pre 64,

        I have to tell you I have not been turning them back in rather I spend them. I leave them as tips at resturants and at the grocery store a few at a time all over the place. I love to see the reaction it causes.  IT IS HILARIOUS (actually really sad) that everyone looks at it twice. Most don’t know what it is and they have to ask. Some think it;s a dollar but most have no clue and trying to add it up in their head is almost impossible.

        How are these people going to make change in a silver world if they can make change now????

      83. @BJ, use this site to get the current melt value for silver “junk” coins.(
        I watch eBay daily and search for deals on junk coins. Many times you can find a deal with a “buy it now” and actually come out ahead of the melt value. I did it this morning with War Nickels. Bought 4 rolls and the melt was $35 more than I paid. Just have to watch and grab them when they come up!

      84. LostinMissouri,  if I owed the bank 100 trillion Zimbabwe dollars and I couldn’t find it blowing around out in the street I would trade some PM for it and pay off any old outstanding debts.  Just to keep my credit rating up while in “Barter Town”.  That would be just one note…  I’m sure it wouldn’t cost more than one 90% silver dime.

      85. 22 times face yesterday Tina.  That’s easy.  What about 65-70 Tina?  The U.S. Mint still makes 90% silver coins today including the Kennedy half dollar. 

      86. The US mint does NOT make any coins for general circulation with any silver content today.  The last US coin with any silver content put into general circulation ( at face value ) were the 40% silver Kennedy halves, minted from 1965-69.  

        The the mint DOES make “proof” coins with silver content of 90%, but the collector value of them far and away surpasses the value of the silver content.  You’re not likely to find them in circulation.

      87. The US mint does NOT make any coins for general circulation with any silver content today.  The last US coin with any silver content put into general circulation ( at face value ) were the 40% silver Kennedy halves, minted from 1965-69.  

        The the mint DOES make “proof” coins with silver content of 90%, but the collector value of them far and away surpasses the value of the silver content.  You’re not likely to find them in circulation.

        Durango Kidd
        February 7th, 2011 at 11:05 pm
        BJ: Start your own group. Find like minded families and couples. Take the initiative and organize!
        Big fricking mistake….all you do is come off sounding like a know-it-all and give your secret away…word will spread to other neighbors…and well, you get the picture…you are a target for WTSHTF….or the ridicule of the neighborhood..

        There are two rules of the prepper club..
        1) don’t tell anyone you’re a member of the prepper club
        2) and don’t tell anyone you’re a member of the prepper club 

        Already sized up two neighbors…one with two children said he would go to the church for food..(I’m still laughing) and the other makes fun of my plastic-covered windows and stored food and water.


        That’s like buying silver @ $30 and selling for $40. Best investment you could make.
        I bought 22 hams at $1.50 2 years ago; they are now priced at $2.75…so my profit is 1.25 X 22= $27.50…and that’s just one canned meat I compare that with all canned goods and you have a pretty good return, not taxable!!!

        Just call me Lady Hawke II!!
        (nice hearing from you LH!)

      90. Just trying to teach the nurse a little more there Nabisco.  There were

        2,150,000 1970 “D’s” Kennedy’s 40% made in 1970.

      91. Yuan………  Ho hum.  Somebody wake me up when kilo bars hit 55K and then were off to the races.  Ag should be $42 or higher.  Maybe a new record high & stage III will kick the simple people with their head in the sand.  Will we bust down to 1:44 ratio today Mac?

      92. Tina, did that help you on the 65-70 halves?

      93. JJ: I understand the reluctence of some to disclose anything about their preps or perspectives about where we are headed and the state of the state we are in, but I think there are probably ways to go about this discreetly, to find like minded individuals in your area, establish communication and raphor and eventually develop a group.

        Some people do not have the confidence to go it alone and need support and there will be strength in numbers for those willingly to make that effort. I think it all depends upon your personal psychology, where you live, and what your social group is like.

        Maybe its time for some to gravitate to like minded souls. 2012 is clearly a milestone in conciousness, and how we project that conciousness into reality, as we will have to lay in the bed we make.

      94. @TnAndy

        “…SO, don’t sit there so smug, and think folks are going to trade an ounce of gold for a pound of your salt…..because most likely, it’s never gonna happen…”

        What happens when the body lacks salt?  Salt = sodium.  Too little and the body experiences fatigue, headache, muscle cramping and muscle weakness.  Low sodium can cause confusion, limited alertness, irritability, and can lead to hallucinations and coma. Not enough sodium in the body fluids allows excess water to enter cells and cause swelling affecting the brain. Without treatment (sodium, salt or electrolytes) a brain herniation occurs resulting in massive stroke and death.

        Under those circumstances, someone showing up couldn’t pay me an ounce of gold for my salt or the remedy under the circumstances - an electrolyte mixture of salt, sugar, baking soda. I’d give it to them. Smug, I think not. I’ve tried to think beyond   failing governments and finances. Spent years studying disasters of ole and the lessons that came from them. Tried to point out in the previous posting that throughout history and time, tribes, societies and communities were rebuilding with commodities and currencies other then gold and silver, which were as highly valuable, desirable  and “precious”.

        I’m not against PM’s.  Let me repeat it cause the message keeps getting lost.  I am not against PM’s. I add  – if you have the resources. I believe the number used on this site that are prepping is around 10%.  Of those 10%, how many are in the middle -higher income bracket?  The two income families, or the one good income, you know the type. Half and half???  Well, as a thirty year prepper during the single parent stage, get the kids an education stage, and now that the kids are gone can devote more resources stage – I fit into living the lower income range and the check to check bracket.

        It comes to choices:  Projects or PM’s.  Upgrade eight batteries from 12 year old AGM’s (which are now marginal for a long term full SHTF event) Now there is updated info on using 8- D’s (cat style) batteries as they have the thickest lead plates and can be reconditioned several times getting many more years service – advantageous for SHTF- or PM’s.  Have shotgun, three hunting rifles, two hand guns and no AK type – or PM’s. Have first generation night vision, update or PM’s.  Started raised garden with 100 x 50 ft lined space- whether use traditional dirt or hydroponic totes, either will be a nice chunk of change needed in the next few weeks or PM’s.

        Oh, the dwarf Nigerian goats arrived last Monday in the middle of the ice storm. Plan A shed for shelter wasn’t enough for those surprise temps, went to Plan $B$ much earlier then expected. Milk stand and milker next. If I had the financial resources some posters have alluded to and have, I too could handle each of the above projects with no sweat AND buy PM’s.  But, I didn’t get the divorce with child support or alimony, the silver spoon or win the lottery, or have lucky sperm. I’ve lived the life hand I was dealt. I’ve worked all my life, including two full time jobs for twenty years, to shelter, feed, cloth and educate my children. Because I didn’t buy into keeping up with the Jones, I was able to acquire some big ticket SHTF items, the 40 ft old but nicely appointed bus, two storage RV’s, solar and wind, green house, indoor gardens, and supplies. I believe my dilemma is like the lower fifty percent of preppers out there.

        I say this not to be smug or boastful, but to hopefully give those struggling robbing peter to pay paul and living check to check, an acknowledgement it’s okay to persevere, prep to your own tune and walk to the beat of a different drummer. As there are so many experts, articles, disciples and followers on the various SHTF sites promoting acquiring and holding of gold and silver – I’ve always wondered if every time the word “gold” was used it became “palladium rouble” ($24,500) and every time the word “silver” was used it changed to platinum ($1860.00) with the same expert’s position statements and sales hypes on why you must have a supply with the inference of not having means one is stupid or foolish and not protecting their loved ones.  Would the conversations and postings be any different with the rise in monetary commitment???  Will there be a time when there is a conversation when PM’s are not for the “average” American prepper.

      95. China #1 producer of gold world-wide.
        China imported over 209 tons of gold in 2010.
        China’s people are projected to buy more gold than the India’s this year. Gold jewelry sales only rose 8% last year.

        Because you need to see things for yourself aka don’t trust me, go look up last year’s world production of gold. Then look at the actual demand (tons sold) that ended last Dec 31st. Then look at projected 2011 demand and production.

        I postulate that average Joe American doesn’t grasp economics at all. The Chinese do.

      96. We must be highly above average!  Now if we can just train mushroom to purchase some ASE’s/AGE’s.

      97. I could see the U.S. Mint selling to U.S. customers only.  Anybody have any knowledge of them selling over seas?

      98. Am I #100 again???????

      99. @JJ

        If they were the  DAK or Celebrity canned hams – they are now $3.58 at Wally World – that’s more k-ching! 

        Been focusing on Costco’s canned roast beef in broth – $10 bucks for four 12 ounce cans and six cans of  the chicken breast for same.  Expect both to go up soon –

        Wally’s is almost $4 bucks for roast beef each and theirs is with gravy and I wouldn’t feed it to my dogs.  Also, one of the survival sites had rb for $7 a 16 oz can – yipes!  Pays to research. 

        Keep up the good work – LH2

      100. 22 times face yesterday Tina.  That’s easy.  What about 65-70 Tina?  The U.S. Mint still makes 90% silver coins today including the Kennedy half dollar. 

        NO luck with those years either. I guess either the bank is sifting through them or maybe everyone else has the same idea and there aren’t many left. 

        However, I did find quite a few with low mintage years (some of the newer ones). I held onto them for the heck of it. Maybe one day some “collector” will want them for more then face value. 

        Another good place to look it all these “BUY GOLD HERE” places. Most will not resell BUT I found a place that has bought Gold and Silver Eagles and they are not turning them in for melt. They do not advertise they have them but once I gained their trust they told me they had some in a safe deposit box and they would be willing to sell. YOU KNOW they did not pay more then melt for them so they have a HUGE difference between what they paid and spot plus.

      101. @AZ
        What do you use for search words on Ebay?

        I just looked around and it seems that they did make silver coins after 69 at 40% silver content. The Ike was still silver through 1976
        I agree with you 100% For us this is all new and very intimidating and overwhelming. I think the mentality of everyone hide everything and only save your own ass and don’t help another soul is not only sad but absolutely stupid….there is safety in numbers and strength. Two heads are better than one. It is sad this is the way we as Americans have become. Yes we need help now, my wife and I, but 6 months to  a year from now, we might be able to give back in some way of knowledge or something to those that have helped us and the cycle could continue like that. I met a guy yesterday on the survivalist boards that was a big christian and everyone on the boards respects him. When I approached him (he only lives 2 hours from me) and asked for advice on how to get started, he said all this stuff like “don’t tell anyone let it be a secret lifestyle and blah blah blah…I couldn’t believe it. I thought wow!! this is what you as a christian are telling a fellow chgristian looking for help and advice?? You must read a different bible and worship a different God than I do. IU can understand not telling everyone and letting the whole public know, that only makes sense in the world we live in….but to act that way to fellow like minded people…..stupid and sad!

        Oh and thanks to those that have responded to my questions. Honestly I don’t think you kow how much I appreciate the help and advice from other more knowledgable people than myself


      102. Comments…..  Here’s my 2 cents on the help your neighbor thing, when the SHTF.  I feel that over the last couple years, I’ve done my Christian duty trying to inform people of whats coming. After near complete rejection of  my ideas being given to various people, my trying to help is over.  I already know who believes the way I do, and I’m not interested  in being a martyr for the sake of  saving a couple sheep.  Now if someone comes to me and ask me, that’s a diferent story.  I will offer any help I can.
              As far as my immediate neighbors, I will help them, as I feel that I will need them for extra security.  My newest neighbor behind me is already a prepper, as we had a conversation over the fence sometimes back.  His wife is a banker—so go figure that one.
                  I also know that I  will have to help my grown kids, as prepping is the last thing on their mind.
           Lastly, I don’t fault anyone for not wanting to tell the world they are a prepper, and  feel like they have to save the world.    I got news for you–the world doesn’t want to be saved. They are perfectly happy in their ignorance, and I am perfectly happy to let them stay there.
             I feel like my most important  responsibility is to save my family first, and help my immediate neighbors survive. This plan makes sense to me, and increases my chances to survive.  Going it alone is very difficult, but finding like minded associates is full of risk.  Our efforts to find the best methods is a double edged sword.
             Unless a person can bug out to a totally isolated, totally defensible, totally supplied  bug out location, they almost have to seek other like minded people, or neighbors help when the time comes.  This is common sense.  Each person will have their own plan that they think is best for them. If you’re happy going it alone, go for it. But for many of us, this just isn’t practical. 
               The most important thing to have though, is a plan .  I think most people on these boards are well into theirs.  Good luck all.

      103. Comments…..  on some of the questions about where to buy buillon from.  I would reccomend  I have been buying from them for a long time. I’ve had no problems, and if you check them out, you’ll find their track record very good.  I live near their retail outlet, so I pick my stuff up in person.  But I have mail orederd from them with no problems.
              I don’t work for these people, and have no connection other than a satisfied regular customer.  
           also, one can check their local coin shops for silver dollars and junk silver. The locals can be reasonably competitive with the online dealers.  Flea markets are also a good place to look for silver.   if you’re lucky enough to find someone who doesn’t know the spot price  of the day, even better for you.
            have a great day.

      104. BJ: Contact your local Latter Day Saints (LDS) as the Mormans are ahead of the curve. You will be abe to to buy bulk from them for your staples, and at the best price.

        However it occurs, the Transformation of Civilization is coming. How it falls out, no one knows. It will probably get much worse before it gets better, afterwards. Then it will be different. In the meantime prepping is a first step to sustainable living for individuals and families.

        A few months of supplies would only delay the inevitable. You must have a Plan for the Aftermath. The Aftermath will require community, at least in small groups, and sustainable living, Agenda 21 notwithstanding. 🙂

        It would be best to relocate well west of the Mississippi where the land and water will support the aggregate number of people. That cannot occur east of the Mississippi because there is just too many people.

        I would encourage everyone to read and view everything they can on Terence McKenna on Youtube.

      105. BJ – What area of Michigan are you from?

      106. @GREASEMAN is not a working addy??

        **Admin Correction**: Working Address is : **

        Also I understand and pretty much agree with what your saying. My point was manily that if people are genuinely scared and want and need to learn and are looking for experienced like minded people for guidance and knowledge, then I think it’s absolutely horrendous that said people would not be willing to help them out with guidance and knowledge.
        My wife is pretty good at self learning….me not so much and my brains wiring even has a hard time with real busy sites, my eyes see all the busyness and a thousand different ways to turn and I either freeze or get scattered and mouse clicky happy and end up not getting anywhere…hope that makes sense. So we were jsut hoping to find like minded experienced people via internet to meet/greet type of thing and learn form in person or even by phone…does that makes sense? Other than that, yes I agree society doesnt care nor want to be helped or saved for the most part and I wouldn’t dare tell people outside of a very close circle squat about what we have and are doing. We don’t live in a very good place and I don’t trust neighbvors here at all.
        High minority population here and not being racist, but the majority of them for whatever reason are not decent contributing citizens adn crimne is high here in theft, drug use and selling adn shootings.

        We live in Muskegon, MI on Lake Michigan

        Agenda 21 notwithstanding…I have heard of Agenda 21, but what do you mean by that statement  (don’t understand my brains wiring, but words like “notwithstanding” mess my brain up and I usually have to try and understand it in different wording before it registers, sorry)


      107. Is anyone else having troubles with this site? Last night it was down and unacessible for some time and now sometimes it takes a long time after I recieve an email of a new post for the actual post to show up here and now aftetr taking time to type out a long post it  said “waiting for moderator to check it before posting it, that was the first time I had seen that adn now the frickin thing isn’t here after refreshin…that is BS!

      108. BJ: Don’t sweat the small stuff. The man that masters patience masters all things.

        Sometimes there are problems, beyond Mac’s control, with the server the site is on. I think all of the regular posters have had a problem of some kind, every now and then. I know he is aware and working on the problem.

        Report your problem through “contact us”.

      109. Your right, sorry admin, just delete my panick post of aggrivation please.
        BTW I was entering the addy correctly without the ‘h’ in gainsvillcoins…but kept getting “internet explorer cannot open this page”  maybe the problem is with my internet here??

      110. BJ – I’m just up the road from you.  Traverse City area.

      111. so would you suggest gainsvillecoins over apmex??


        We are scheduled to get a 700$ tax return this Friday, that’s why I am asking…just trying to figure thee all out best way to go here for the best bang for my buck….of course isn’t that want everyone wants?

      112. that’s cool, yeah your just about 3 hours north
        ever get down this way we’d love to meet some other people who are wise about all this
        not sure how to get contact info thru here without poutting email out there……not real sure I want to do that…LoL

      113. Comments…..  To those of you trying to go to gainsville coins, just google it, and you’ll see the correct choices there, even if you spell it wrong.  much more simple.
            Personally, I have purchased from the people at least a dozen times. No problems.  I also have online ordered from them, again , no problems.  And once more, I’m just a customer, a satisfied one.
            Their web site is awesome.  But my ususal problem is too many choices, not enough dough.

      114. BJ; I wouldn’t want to be accused of advocating “sustainable living” as an “agent” for the UN. 🙂

        If you want personal connections through this website with people in your area, create an email address at hotmail using your moniker and post it from time to time for those people in your area looking in here.

        For all intents and purposes you would still be anonymous. Try also, American Prepper Network for Michigan. Good luck.

      115. Moniker??  hmmm??

        Oh heck I’ll just use an old one I barely ever used
        [email protected]

      116. @ BJ –

        FRN = Federal Reserve Note, that green dollar that you have in your wallet.

        Sterling Silver Flatware = 92.5% pure silver. The problem with knives is that the blades are stainless steel while the handles are hollow Sterling Silver. All Sterling Silver weighs out differently. Take and weigh two spoons of the same pattern and from the same maker and you will get two slightly different weights.
        Coin Silver is the 90% pre 1965 US minted dimes, quarters, halves and silver $. I don’t think that I would mess with the post 1965 40% silver, most folks have a very limited knowledge of these half dollars; many will be reluctant to accept them in a trade/barter situation.
        Interesting Note:
        I received a call from the coin dealer that I do most of my business with yesterday. His wife informed me that he had managed to lay his hands on ONE roll of the 2011 Silver Eagles! One lousey roll and it’s the middle of February already???? How about giving me a f–king break!!!

        Since I need 5 Silver Eagles of each year minted for ‘stocking-stuffers’ at Christmas and I have the feeling that they won’t be any cheaper if I wait ….. I grabbed my dog, pistol, cash and rushed right over. They had 10 each 2011 Silver Eagles left. I purchased the five coins that I needed for $34.50 a coin; a $5.19 premium per coin from yesterday’s closing spot price. As I was saying goodby and getting ready to head out the door; another customer came in looking purchase 2011 Silver Eagles.

        Dennis is right, there is a serious shortage out there in physical silver that will become very evident by the end of March.

        Much as I hate to ‘pop-anyone’s-bubble’; but, you AREN’T going to find any pre 1965 US minted silver coins in change, no matter how you buy it. This idea has been thought of previously. The last time that I actually found a pre 1965 quarter in change was almost 10 years ago; a 1958 in very average condition.

        Good luck & God Bless to all.

      117. I can see that a few here still doesn’t understand that PM’s allow freedom.  Think about that for a minute while the other sheeple continue on with their day.  It’s not perfect money, but as close as you’ll ever get to it!!!!  How close do you want to be?  After all, not everybody in each country can dig it up or process it.  Some countries have food, others have oil, produce products or services (sound familiar)?  If capital gains on it wasn’t taxed we would be free in the money department which would allow other freedoms to expand.  Freedom starts with the money, the rest is fiat.

      118. Any thoughts on which country Mubark will flee to?  He will follow his money that he has tucked away.  Think it is in paper, think again.  That country that allows him to reside probably wants to continue holding his real money….  My guess is Germany next door to his other bank.

      119. if you can get the silver coins at 20x fv, that’s a good deal right?

        like 20$ for 1 dollar silver coin all the way down to 2.00 for a dime…..all being 1964 and older


      120. Comments…..   @BJ
        Right now 20x face is a good deal.   I just bought some junk this past week, and that’s what I paid. If you check with a web sight like gainsville coins dot com, you can look and see what they are selling it for, and that will tell you what a fair price is.  They sell for the lowest I have been able to find anywhere.
              Also,  another site I use regular is called   coinflation dot com.  This is a great educational site, and their coin calculators are great for figuring out how much a coin is worth in melt value.  They will also tell you a good price spread to pay for junk coins.  They also reference ebay to show you what the real world prices are for the coins you are looking at with their coin calculator. It’s the best site I know of educational wise.
                Don’t hesitate to buy some junk silver if you can get it anywhere  less than what a web site like gainsville coins sells it for.  They are a big online dealer.  I’m lucky to live near their retail buillon store, and I pick my coins up directly from them.  I couldn’t believe how many silver eagles they sell every week.  The UPS man hates to go there.  Those monster boxes of Eagles are very heavy.
             Good luck guys, and happy coin hunting. Enjoy it while you can, because soon enough, we’ll all be consumed with protecting what we have, and just surviving.

      121. BJ – Check your Moniker

      122. Au/Ag loves war, famine, pestilence, WMD and death.  

      123. I think the seats are empty flying to Cairo to see the pyramids on the red eye.  Maybe they will let me sit in first class for coach.  I’ll have the pork sandwich w bacon please.

      124. You can find plenty of pre-1965 dimes, quarters, and half’s at
        The only draw back is the order size. If you have the money I would recommend Tulving. If looking for smaller orders do give Scottsdale Silver a look.
        Be very careful on eBay, there are many counterfeits which fool the experienced. I recommend buying a digital scale for protection by weighing your coins. 
        Peace and Love, EV

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