What Accelerated Hyperinflation Looks Like

by | Jul 1, 2011 | Headline News | 256 comments

Do you LOVE America?


    Never having lived through a hyperinflationary currency meltdown makes it difficult to visualize how such an event may unfold. We know from historical examples like the Weimar Republic and Zimbabwe that the end result is wheel barrows full of paper currency being used to buy basic staples like bread and rice. The following chart from the late Howard Katz provides us an example of what the beginnings of a currency meltdown look like, in this case Zimbabwe’s hyperinflation, and how quickly it can devolve into completely financial chaos:

    year rate of increase in prices
    1999 56.9%
    2000 55.22%
    2001 112.1%
    2002 198.93%
    2003 598.75%
    2004 132.75%
    2005 585.84%
    2006 1,281%
    2007 66,212.3%
    2008 231,150,888.87% (July)

    The Zimbabwe dollar took roughly five years to completely lose the confidence of its people. But because the US dollar is the world’s reserve currency all bets are off in terms of time lines. Given our dependence on debt issuance and foreign investment to cover our expenses, there’s a distinct possibility that shouldn’t be ignored. As James Rawles discussed in his book Patriots and Troy Grice in his book Indivisible, if our foreign creditors pull the plug on lending, the entire monetary system of the United States could collapse in one fell swoop. This is certainly a possibility.

    Whatever the triggering mechanism, and however long it takes for the American public and our foreign creditors to lose confidence, the end result will be the same. We often talk about store shelves emptying if and when the dollar becomes worthless,  but another likelihood in such an event would be that store shelves remain fairly well stocked simply because the people have nothing of value to acquire those goods (and eventually, that leads to riots and political collapse).

    The following video from Silver Investor demonstrates the pricing discrepancies that will result if the US dollar goes into meltdown.

    However it comes about, whether quickly in a period of days or weeks, or progressively over months and years, the wealth of anyone who denominates their assets in US dollars (including now, ironically, many Zimbabweans) will be virtually destroyed.

    Hat tip Chef


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      1. I remember at the time when the pictures of those Zimbabwe dollars started appearing, someone said it looked like a pile of feces on the bills. I guess it was pretty accurate considering what happened to their dollar.

      2. indeed… I bought a 100 trillion dollar bill (Zimbabwe) for $5 (w/shipping), just to explain to my friends what hyperinflation is all about. they don’t get it… they think the 100 T is fake, it’s not – minted in 2008.

      3. Your Friends are stupid, they probably talk about those weapons of mass distraction, the Whores Cayle and Cadie Anthony, waste of time, while this depression rages on, they talk about some stupid Whores.

        • “What a waste it is to lose one’s mind”

          Who is “Cayle and Cadie Anthony”?

          • I’m thinking he/she got things mixed up, and was referring to the trial of Casey Anthony, who is accused of killing her 3-year-old daughter, Caylee (?) It kind of dominates CNN right now.

      4. Looks like we won’t have to worry about Toilet Paper.

        • And I just counted 55 months worth???
          Are you serious?? Are you serious???(Pisslosi joke there)

        • Its fairly useless as TP. Its so infected with viruses and bacterial I would never use it, more likely to die from an infection then get a clean buttocks. That and it would be rough as heck. Fire starter, wall paper, etc, sure!

      5. Remember the story of the German butcher after WW1 he raised his son and saved every day for his college. Then on his 18th birthday they took the savings and bought him a nice dinner out before she shipped out for war again.

        I still fear deflation. Hyper inflation I can protect against….deflation I don’t think the middle class has a chance

        • At least the son would have remembered the dinner at the Siberian camp after he was captured at Stalingrad.

      6. I think ‘hyperinflation’ only ever happens when there is a general loss of faith in a currency, which results in mass flights out of it. Bank reserves have nothing to do with this phenomenon. ‘Helicopter drops’ of money to the general populace are more likely to do it, when done without a corresponding increase in productive capacity.

        Invest in SEEDS… http://www.bereadytosurvive.com they will be worth more than gold.

        • Bank reserves have everything to do with protecting the banks, not US. Uncle Ben’s job as Chairman of the FED is to protect the gangster banksters, not US.

          Don’t make the mistake of believing he is there for OUR benefit. That is what the FED wants you to believe. Events should evidence otherwise, even for the deaf, dumb, and blind.

          Hyperinflation won’t happen in the USA because the FED will move to shut it down when it starts just like they have in the past, like during Carter’s Presidency.

          Inflation benefits the gangster banksters because it inflates their assets. Hyper inflation destroys their assets.

          Hyper inflation in Zimbabwe benefited “outsiders” which is why it was allowed to run rampant and continue unabated by the rest of the world. The USA is a different scenario, with about as much relation to Zimbabwe as the collapse of the Soviet Union to the “disintergration” of the USA. Put it into perspective people and get a grip on reality.

          Apples and oranges.

          Hyper inflation doesn’t benefit the gangster banksters in the USA who control the finances of the world; which is why it won’t happen here. Sorry Mac.

          Bottom line these crooks are capitalists looking to increase their wealth. Hyper inflation would destroy their wealth in the USA. Follow the money. Inflation by a THOUSAND cuts.

          Double digit inflation yes. Hyper inflation no.

          • you’re arguing about semantics. forest, trees, etc.

            several years of double-digit inflation does the same thing as hyperinflation for many americans. it prices them out of essential items in practical terms just the same. five years of 12% inflation would reduce buying power by almost 45%. $100 @ 12% x 5 years = $175 to buy the same amount of goods.

            there’s no chance of corresponding increases in wages with the destruction of collective bargaining agreements to hold employers to adjust to known cost of living disparities, so the american worker in the bottom 85% of earnings gets hosed just the same.

            • Sam: The difference between double digit inflation and hyper inflation is not just semantics. Its definition.

              Yes, dd inflation will have serious affects upon the poorest among US: those without education, jobs, or assets. If you want to see what dd inflation is, follow the “Wal Mart Sweatshirt Index”. I have used that example here before.

              A couple years back I noted that a sweatshirt from China up to size XL 9 (and in any color) was only $5 USD. The next year it went to $6 USD. Thats a 20% increase in one year, and at Wal Mart, I would add, which typically re-outsources to get a cheaper price when they can. Not sure what the current price is now. The poor would be affected but could buy a sweatshirt.

              In hyper inflation that sweatshirt would be $25 next year and $75 the year after or more. The poor would not be able to buy a sweatshirt. That sort of thing is not going to happen in the United States, because the Washington Mall would be strewn with corpses and Congress would not be able to muster a quorum.

              Apples and oranges, Sam. Apples and oranges.

            • DK is right on a hypothetical level… if goods become priced out of the poor’s reach, then the voting public will wake up enough to demanding a change of politicians – something existing politicians do not want to see happen.

              As far as wage increases? I call BS. In 2005, I was making $40k/year. Now I’m pulling in around six figures. It took 5 job changes (the longest lasting 2.5 years), and one move from Utah to Oregon to get it done, but it has happened. It happened because I gave those employers the exact amount of loyalty as they’ve given me – practically none. I did an honest day’s work for the agreed wages; no more, no less. OTOH, when a better opportunity presented itself, I went for it.

              If you have the skills and some savvy in seeking a better deal, you stand a fairly solid chance of doing the same thing.

              I was once stupid enough to think that I could comfortably work at one place for a few decades, then retire comfortably. I was laid off from that place in 2005, and vowed to never, *ever* fail to seek and accept a better deal, no matter how much I liked the employer, and no matter how much they pretend to stress loyalty or “family”.

          • DurangoKidd,
            You’re probably right. The banksters will first let us have a deeper whiff of deflation so they can purchase as much gold/silver as possible at cheaper prices, then when everyone is scared to death of falling prices, they will crank up the printing presses again. Then when it looks like hyperinflation could be about to occur and gold and silver have hit the moon in value, they will quietly unload their gold/silver at astronomical prices. Once they’ve unloaded their hoard, they will then stop the presses and watch as gold and silver plummet again, while they “short” the metal. In other words they will make money while things go up and they will make money when things go down.

            Gold and silver investors will have to be watchful to know when to sell. I recommend the Dow Jones Average to Gold ratio. It is currently about 8 to 1. When you see it approaching 2 : 1, start selling your gold/silver. Historically, the ratio has hit 1 : 1 in 1933 and again in 1980. In 1933 it got to that ratio because of a collapsing stock market. In 1980 it got that way because of exploding gold values and a dormant stock market. In the coming years it will happen again because of declining stock valaues AND exploding gold values. Of course, if we print enough money, stocks may continue to rise, but gold will go up even faster. Stay tuned and pay attention. You snooze, you lose. Be careful.

            • T, I see your point on the DJA/gold ratio. The problem is you are selling your gold or silver and putting it back into a fiat currency that by that time will be near a hyper-inflationary level.

              I will only sell my PM if there is something of value I need to buy right then. IE: my neighbor decides to sell his land next to me, maybe to buy another tractor, something that is really needed and worthwhile. If you leave it in paper for any length of time, it’s value could be gone before you know it.

            • I only own real gold and silver and think I will continue to hold it while the games go on. Ultimately it will be worth some thing to someone even if it is my daughters who are trading it and not me.

          • Uncle Ben should go back to making rice. he did that much better than his current gig!

          • can’t wait for you to eat your words on at least half the BS you spout on about here on this website DK…can’t wait….

            • JJ/Clark: At least have the courage to use your own name. We know you are an economic idiot, a real estate moron, and a liar (the Gary North affair remember?) 🙂

              Its only July. you still have time to get into college by Fall. You do have a GED don’t you? Get an education, son and the truth will be plain to see.

            • DDDDAAAAAAAMMMMMMMMMNNNNNN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

              That is one Grade A ass-whuppin!

            • Enjoy reading your thoughts DK. Some are pissing themselves and running to Mac with tp. Many use my name butt I’m not crying with my azzhole.

          • There are so many factors you are not taking into account. It’s about control. When hyperinflation hits they can implement a police state, the new world order, and global governance. They already have all the money in the world they want. What do they care? Now they are after power and glory. The rothschild family already owns half the worlds wealth. The land they own the gold they own is all going to be worth the same before and after a hyperinflation. They won’t lose, but everyone will be slaves. Not one fiat currency has ever survived in all of history. They all collapse sooner or later. So it could be 6 months 5 years or whenever, but it will collapse. And if you look most of the super rich have already left the U.S. dollar. There isn’t much for them to lose now. There is so much more to this than making money. It’s all about power and control – us slaves can make them all the money they want after they have inslaved us.

        • Seeds and long term food storage. We got our supply from http://www.shelfreliancesanantonio.com. Fast shipping and the food actually tasts good! Not some mush you just add water to that tasts like cardboard with salt.

      7. Hyperinflation is an encore that smells like tear gas with your eyes closed and your head bleeding while the politician clowns hide like rats.

        • I saw this scruffy looking bum on the corner today, holding his cardboard sign. It said “Tonight we’re gonna party like it’s 1929 !

      8. So what’s deflation?

        • The opening act before the hyperinflation show. We’re watching it now.

        • BJ: In a nutshell …..

          Deflation is too little money chasing too many goods and services. Inflation is too much money chasing too few goods and serivces.

          • We are actually experiencing both deflation and inflation at the same time. That is part of the reason it is harder to see either one. The housing and commercial real estate markets are in a deflationary trend, where commodities like gas, corn, wheat, rice, cotton, they are in a inflationary trend.

            • Agreed. The demographics for residential real estate is over. Commercial real estate is flat because of the Internet trend as well as a bad economy. It won’t becoming back either except in a few select locations.

      9. “A hungry man is an angry man, and a hungry, angry man is a dangerous man.” Richard Russell

        • The state poverty lotto is kind of surprising.

        • Won’t it be great when Minnesota discovers they don’t need those thousands of employees sucking up all that tax-payer money??

          Insert smiley here.

        • Designed to punish taxpayers without saving anything or having any of the useless state employees actually feel any pain.

          Starve the beast. Work and deal under the table whenever possible.

      10. Ha, a hungry, angry man is hangry.

        • LOL.And a dangerous armed man is, well, dangerous and armed………..and hangry.

          • OR darmed and hangry!

            • you guys are killing me!

      11. I will rip your headoff and crap down your throat .This is what happens when you have a hungry man , a broke man, a man with out a job or medical insurance and who is pissed off at the world .

        • Hangbromangly?

          • Oh god…if my wife catches me on this site again… she is gonna kick my ass!

      12. We are already seeing increasing cases of “mob robberies” in places like Chicago and Minnesota where 20-50 youths coordinate a robbery online and meet at a designated place and time to rob a business en mass. I agree the shelves may be fully stocked in the early phase of the hyper-inflation event as the currency experiences cascading devaluation, but as desperation, fear, and panic fill the air people will simply take what they want, including the police, as we saw in post Katrina New Orleans.

        • I sort of see it this way–a few weeks after TSHTF, the manufacturers aren’t getting paid, can’t pay their employees or expenses, and then the shelves will be empty.

          • Seriously? I suspect that most of the employees will be happily carting off goods themselves.

        • You mean ESPECIALLY the police, correct?

        • “…but as desperation, fear, and panic fill the air people will simply take what they want…”

          Joshua, I hope you are not suggesting that these hordes of teenage savages pillaging stores and beating/robbing hapless pedestrians are engaging in their simian behavior because they are “hungry” or in need of some basic necessity of life.

          The primitives who descended upon that Sears store in Philly last week were stealing sneakers, sunglasses, iPods and cell phones, hardly the kind of provender to feed a famished mouth or slake an unsatisfied appetite. I understand that some of the female participants were so obese they resembled small planetoids. No, what we are seeing is social and economic breakdown being used as an opportunity for the indulgence of long-simmering, long stoked hatreds, as well as a natural, inborn genetic propensity on the part of one segment of society to behave like the characters in the first fifteen minutes of Stanley Kubrick’s “2001.”

          • Alfred E
            No mater what reason these mobs are doing it for. They now have the organization to clean out a store in short time if SHTF.

            • Maybe, maybe not.

              It’s one thing when you’re in a group of kids out to grab a few status symbols and toys. OTOH, when you need to feed yourself and your family, suddenly it isn’t about helping your friends do the same, it becomes all about making sure that you get yours.

              Also, during SHTF, those kids are going to have serious competition from everyone else who are desperately seeking to feed and clothe themselves and their families.

        • Yes the mob raids looks like they are getting some practice in already.

      13. German hyperinflation was in no little part caused because they wanted to inflate their way out of paying WWI reparations…they were just plain pissed off that they had to pay anything to anybody. Also, interestingly, apparently during the hyperinflation, suppliers, farmers, etc., stopped sending their items to markets/stores because they wanted to wait to see how far the prices would go up before they sold (which is currently happening in some grain markets such as the USA durum wheat market, but because of low supply), causing severe shortages from not so severe shorages, so there was a hugh level of greed involved too during that hyperinflation period. Also apparently at the end of the hyperinflationary period, “X” old money was allowed to be exchanged for “Y” new money, so if I were you, I wouldn’t be using old money as toilet paper or burning it in a hyperinflatory period because it will be eventually exchanged for new money, even at a reduced rate.

        • KB,
          I wouldn’t call a man trying to get the market value ofsomething as being “greedy”. When gold hits $5,000 and ounce I can guarantee you that I will be wanting $5,000 an ounce to part with my PM’s. You would be an idiot to sell something of value for less than it’s value.

          A farmer that sells a potato for an astronomical price has to turn around and pay an astronomical price for the tomato that he wants to buy. Let the market function. The “market” is not greedy, it is just the market.

          • If you say so…but just exactly what is YOUR definition of greed. P.S. I would bet that lil’ ol farmer grows his own tomatoes too.

            • Not too close to each other, though. They’re both Nightshade family and they’re useless if they get each other’s pollen.

          • I guess it wouldn’t be so bad if the market wasn’t fixed, but it is, and please do not insult my intelligence by saying it is not.

            One last thing: You stated, “You would be an idiot to sell something of value for less than it’s (sic) value.” From what movie is the following quote? “…were so preoccupied with whether or not they could, they didn’t stop to think if they should.”

            • I believe that was “Jurassic Park”. Read the book LONG before the movie came out. Just thought I’d throw my 2¢ in that probably is only worth .75¢. LOL

        • You need to read a little history. At the end of the G inflation 1/8 of a US Cent would pay off all Pre war G debt. A TRILLION old marks were one new mark. Look around you will find pictures of people burning money for heat, It was cheaper than coal

          • I did read my history and it states that because they viewed the money as worthless and disposed of it through whatever means, many had nothing left to exchange.

          • Suzy: Thank you for the tip on the tomatoes! I never knew that. I am actually growing my own potatoes for the first time as I had a few spuds that felt the need to go forth and multiply. Any gardening tips are very much appreciated, so thanks!!!

      14. I have a question… I am 21 years old and still living with my parents. I am planning on getting a condo and paying it off monthly with money from two roommates and my own. In this economy would it be a bad idea to do this? I just can’t stand living at home anymore.. and I don’t want to just throw my money away paying rent. I want the money to be invested in something. Let me know what you think!

        • Okay—I’ll go first…are you really reading these articles and posts??

          • Kind of… I just don’t know what to believe. I WISH I KNEW exactly what was going to happen, that way I can plan my life around it, but I don’t really know. All of this shtf talk is making me not motivated at all in school and not making me care about my future or anything.. it is really having an effect on me. I just wish I know what was going to happen and when.. so I can plan around that. 🙁

            • So does everyone else. But to do the right thing you don’t need to know. Read about “Hierarchy(SP) of Needs” Develop useful skills, buy quality items you NEED. Get your brain ready for change. Every survival book in the world says: It’s you; not your stuff

          • Only a short sighted wooman would print Hmmmm. Give him a break. How old are you?

        • it will never be an investment, because you will never own it..just dont pay the taxes on the property for a few years and you will see what im telling you is the truth..

          your better off now renting,..reasons..

          you can pickk up and leave when your job dries up
          you can pick up and leave if your neighbor is an ass hole

          you can pick up and leave if your 2 other buddies stiff you

          never rely on anyone but yourself to pay your way..these 2 other people should never be relied upon to “pay your loan”

          dont take out the mortgage..it will not be worth shit and you may end up owing more then its worth within years of siging your rights away to the banksters..

          Condo’s suck..period

          • I have a lady that works for me, her condo was purchased for 175,000..her neighbor had their condo listed for sale for the past 4 years, and lost their ass on it..big time

            now this person who works for me just realized how fucked she is, and how underwater her note is..she is stuck..or may end up giving it back to the bank if it falls any further, she no longer has an investment

            real estate is no longer an investment for the average joe

            it becomes a debt trap

            • Sometimes, it is better to let the bank eat it. I did that lat year, when Bank of America’s idea of home loan relief was to practically double the mortgage payment. On an upside-down house.

              Fsck ’em… the Chapter 13 prevents them from doing a damned thing about it, and I know they lost their shorts on the deal.

        • Bronson: Live in your mother’s basement for the next three years. Hang out at your girlfriends apartment. Buy some silver, invest in gold. Buy the property you want and pay the property off in cash after Israel nukes Iran and inflation takes hold in the US.

          Three years max.

          • I appreciate everyones advice.. wish I knew people like you in real life! Everyone I know is asleep.. A lot of kids my age are awake to shit like NWO and aliens and all this crazy shit. Noone is actually interested in more realistic things like the economy collapsing. It is too boring for people.

            • No, Bronson…it’s denial and the need to stay in that warm, cozy area with their heads in the sand—if you stay in your parents’ home…please start storing food…even IF you do it alone.

              They brought you into this world—you owe them that much.

          • Bronson: BTW, the demographics for the housing market, in general, is over. Residential real estate will continue to fall in most areas due to lack of demand and ability to qualify.

            It is possible to find a good deal on a forclosure if you can find a bargain from a bank. Make a crazy low ball offer if you have financing lined up and make the contract “subject to” approval from your (other) bank.

            If you buy a condo near a major university, like ASU in Tempe AZ, you will always be able to find roommates. I did and always a couple of hot chicks who liked to do housework!

            All real estate values, like politics, are local. And friends with benefits are always welcome. Ah, those were the days! 🙂

            • This is one of the biggest bunch of mainstream B.S. ever: “All real estate values,… are local.”

              Spend some time at thehousingbubbleblog.com to see why that is untrue and nothing more than a realtwhores spewing. The People at thehousingbubbleblog.com saw the collapse happening well ahead of time, they have a good track record.

              As far as the all politics being local,… PSft, as if. It’s “party line” all the way, same as it ever was.

          • now its three years max???? a few months, even weeks ago it was 5-10 years minimum… and why buy silver/gold at this point if there is no chance of yperinflation according to your posts above?…..oh, and how are you gonna pay the property off in cash if the money doesn’t hyperinflate?? always speaking out of both sides of your ass aren’t you durango?

            • Hi JJ! Just saw your post! I have never said ten years about anything. You must have me confused with someone else.

              This is what I believe:

              1. I do NOT believe that we are going to have a “financial collapse” at all. There is no profit in a collapse for the gangster banksters. We already had the “collapse”. Follow the money sweetheart!

              2. I say 2, maybe 3 years max for Bronson because I do not believe the Israeli/Iranian conflict will be resolved without war. When Israel launches a first strike against Iran, gold will soar. When it does he should sell and buy the condo he wants.

              3. I believe that 2 years is the “window” that Israel has to make that decision before Iran has a capable delivery system for their warheads. Iran currently has enough enriched uranium for 4 warheads, but not a capable delivery system. They are working on that and have achieved industrial capacity with respect to enrichment. Maybe three years if the Iranian computers can be sabotaged again.

              Consequently I advised Bronson to live in his mothers basement and invest in gold so that when gold soars as war breaks out, he can buy his condo and/or pay his mortgage off.

              Obviously the Israeli’s want US to do the JOB; and the dual citizens in OUR military industrial complex will push for it; but the military does NOT want any part of that, otherwise Bush would have had US in Teheran before he left office. Therefore the Israeli’s will have to do it.

              4. I believe we will have double digit inflation AFTER the next election or by late next year. DD inflation is not hyper inflation. Not by a longshot. Demand for gold is worldwide and will continue to increase as the market for gold has not yet begun to be penetrated. For those without a gold mine, gold will be very expensive. I recommend YOU buy a metal detector.

              5. The next President will have to make the decision on Iran. Regardless of his/her decision, inflation will approach double digits. It MUST approach DD if the American dollar is going to decline in value far enough to generate jobs in this country again. This can happen by inflation and the manipulation of currency market mechanisms. The currency market, the largest market in the world, is controlled by the major banks.

              When Obummer says that he wants exports to increase 20% a year for the next five years, he means that you can expect your purchasing power to decline by a similar amount.

              The bottom line is that if you don’t have gold get some.

              6. I believe that the SHTF in America by natural disaster: the big one in LA is a good example of that as 18 million people would be affected by a 8.5 to 9.0 quake.

              Or it could come by EMP. Either of those scenarios is possible and statistically, long overdue. I think a major natural disater like that could occeur within 5 years.

              I have never said ten years. Any other questions while I am blowing smoke out nof both sides of my ass? love ya!

          • I would tend to agree with you DK. Good solid advice. Then came Bronson options would increase.

        • Steal you a high quality used blue water sailboat (not cheap)(& passport) or used airstream trailer and take it where you want. If you can’t, stay home, drink a cup of stfu and do more than you are asked while putting some metal away. Once you move away you will never come back the same. Your choice, don’t hate me because I’m in jail. I would rather be a Wall Mart greater faking it in a wheel chair. Sucs don’t it!

        • Bronson,
          It depends. You’re taking on the risk of your roommates abandoning you and moving out. What happens if they leave, can you find other roommates? If you can’t, then you’re stuck making the payment to the Bank without the benefit of the extra income from your departed roommates.

          Welcome to the world of business. You can make money or you can lose money. You take the risk of making it big, but you also could lose big. Remember that debt is a harsh mistress and a cruel master.

        • Never buy a condo! You will never be able to sell it. I own 2 homes and can’t sell either since very few people can obtain a home loan these days. Both are at a lossin value too!

        • Go for it kid, go for it.

        • Weigh your options. If you hold off on the condo, how much money can you put towards beans, bullets, bandaids. What is your ultimate goal, land, a house? It’s all about options and which options will get you to your goals.

        • I would rather have the stress living with my parents versus the stress that I cant pay the the rent , utilities and possibly supporting my room mates. I would play it safe right now.. GOOD LUCK !!1

          • The older you get the smarter your parents become. Everyone needs their space as they become of age, but usually your parents really care about you.

      15. Zimbabwe had the US dollar to fall back on. We have no alternate currency so it will be very different, much more severe.

        Lets hope the corp dies and a free market is able to quickly form and provide an alternative that works for the people benefit.

        • I would suggest that Zimbabwe didn’t “fall back” on the dollar. I would suggest that other nations used the US Dollar as the world’s currency to buy up Zimbabwe’s real assets for cheaper than dirt once hyper inflation gripped the nation.

          Do I need to name names?

          Markets are not and have never been “free”. They are either “open” or “closed”; “managed” or “mismanaged”.

          There is no such thing as “Free Markets” or “Free Trade” these are euphanisms for the financial rape of the American people by the gangster banksters, big business, and global government sympathizers.

          Death to traitors!

          • Man, are you ever a whacked out mercantilist.

            I have yet to come across anyone who pushes the anti-liberty themes of the Power Elite, mixed with truth, more than you.

            “The term “free markets” is shorthand for free and voluntary property exchanges of all sorts, private exchanges of private property that are neither coerced nor coerce others.

            … The idea that government is necessary for a free market to work, or that it helps a free market work, or that a mixed economy of free markets plus government is superior to a free market economy is, for all practical purposes, entirely faulty. ”


            • Clark: No I am a patriot and you are stuck in the 17th century. Still shilling for your daddy Lou Rockwall?

              “Free markets” don’t exist. Neither does “free trade” They never have. That’s reality not 17th century philosophy. Markets are either open or closed, managed or mismanaged.

              Both terms are euphanisms for the financial rape of the wealth of America by the Ganagster banksters and the transfer of wealth from the middle class to them via their investments in offshore corporations (China India) where labor and entrepenuers are exploited by the int’l bankers.

              They want to make Americans believe that free trade and free markets are good things like FREEDOMS when in fact these terms are used to justify the demise of the American economy as a prelude for one world government.

              Get a clue you FUCKING moron!

            • Ha, no, Durango Kidd, you are some kind of mercantilist sell-out who wouldn’t recognize a free-market if it came up and bit you.

              Just about Every post of yours supports the memes of the Power Elite.

      16. buy a piggy bank and an uzi

      17. China owns our banks what do you think they will do when we stop paying them the interest we owe them?

        • I thought Hillary was working on that.

          • She’s a carpet muncher and bill got tired of looking at it. #1 has her just where he wants her, under her thumb. And she knows.

            • I have good friends who are lesbians so go fuck yourself dickhead.

            • no kidding. deriding her as a lesbian is the most pathetic strawman ever. you clearly lack intelligence to deconstruct her actions in any meaningful way.

            • Charlie/Sam: When thunder thighs and nutless eric holder sends the helmets in blue to get your guns, let us know how that works out. How many dollars has she given to the Palestinians? What terrorist organization controls and runs Palestine? How many straw guns did eric send South of the border?

        • The “interest” is just a digital number transferred to their account and confirmed by a piece of paper …. did ya think Uncle Ben could run out of money?

          Only if an EMP takes out the grid.

          • “did ya think Uncle Ben could run out of money?” DK
            and yet another example of DK’s contrary and conflicting logic typical of a narcissistic “know it all”

            funny that you spend so much time here pretending you are the expert on EVERYTHING instead of being out using your superior intelligence and vast worldly knowledge to become a billionaire and change the world…oh thats right, you already have..pffffttttt

            • JJ: Sometimes life is “hurry up and wait”. Right now I am waiting for certain markets to turn so I can exit assets at the price I want. Until then, I am cash poor.

              My goal in life is to be the richest man that no one knows and I am very close to accomplishing that.

              As far as changing the world, yes I would like to do that, but right now I am busy changing mine. Once I achieve my goal, I will turn my attention to other endeavors.

              By education, training, license, and special expertise I am qualified as an expert witness in court. I don’t think I am the smartest guy in the world, and never before considered myself a financial expert,but compared to the outright dribble offered as economic opinions by some people on here without that education, experience, and special expertise, like Clark, for example, I look like a financial genius.

              There are people on here with a lot to offer within their area of expertise. I don’t know anything about “canning” maybe you do. And maybe Clark has an area of expertise, but it isn’t economics, business, finance, or real estate. He just posts a quick quote to get the sheeple to hit his daddys link.

              What is your area of expertise JJ?

            • Do you get the impression DK is insecure as all get out? He can’t discuss the facts and opinions I (or anyone else) presents without ad hominems. Classic Kensyian.

      18. China has been a net seller uf US debt for the past 6 months. Japan is buying some, but not enough to finance 50 billion weekly deficits. So the rest of the world has basically lost faith in bonds and treasuries. It will be interesting to see who steps in to buy this debt now that QE2 is over. I’m guessing the FED will begin QE3 (without callijng it QE3) to keep interest rates artificially low.

        • I believe the new name is “reinvestment”. QE is no longer tolerable and a recognized fraud. Time to give the same thing a new name.

          • I know, we could call it hope and change. Makes you feel warm and fuzzy doesn’t it?

            • A man like elton only needs someone to love him, if he can’t have that, a lib needs hope and a song. If he can’t have that, give him something to do. A lot of people that are snoozing, are going to need something to do…

      19. I believe in the word of God,the book of Revelation speaks of”A days wage for a loaf of bread”, a financial collapse is on its way.
        Kiss your 401k’s goodbye folks.Only metals have survived as currency since the days of Noah.All paper fiat currency will be worthless,everywhere in the world.
        save yourselves before its too late,invest in stocks and bonds and you will be destitute,keep only paper money and you will starve.you need to get copper,silver,gold hard cold cash,and alot of prayer

      20. Lets be clear: this is not Zimbabwe and this is not Germany. We’re going on 100 years used to prices that are “stable”. Its been “stable” inflation but it has been stable.

        If hyperinflation hits here, the prices will not go up. The goods will just stop. Cold.

        Now, what I want to know is will dollars issued by the treasury be worthless like the “dollars” issued in FRNs? Since the treasury dollars (think smaller change, etc, dollar coins…) are not really debt, won’t they retain their value when the actual FRNs take a dive? Just a thought.

        But, some things will never decrease in actual value: Silver, Gold, Copper, Lead. Buy Ammo. You can always sell it or trade it. …unless the government tries to take our guns, then, you’ll be even more glad you bought it!

        …and remember the 7Gs of modern survival: God, Guts, Guns, Groceries, Gas, Gold, Garden: The first 4 are imperative. The last three will certainly be handy. Work on the first four then put your excess then in Gas and then gold. The garden is for sustainability. Get it going NOW! You’ll be glad you did.

        • Girls,guitars.

        • Very good post. I don’t recall even Iran selling its oil for Zimbabwe notes. Once the world asks for Euro’s, Yuans (whatever) or something else for oil then “SWHTF” and quickly. That isn’t happening because there is no good alternative. If Euro had its act together we’d be closer to the end, but they don’t.

        • jim rawles has talked about coins before. his point was that in a hyperinflative economy, it would cost too much to mint coins at inflated values, so they tend to just artificially knock off zeros. depending on teh number of zeroes they devalue the currency, coins corresponding value is amplified.

          also, you’re mistaken to believe that coins lack the risks that fiat currency do in a hyperinflated economy. all coins currently in circulation, except for nickels, have metal value less than their actual face value.

          • not 100% true, 1982 and older pennies for instance…..

        • Special Drawing Rights?

        • The G’s are good, Just leave out the fake god stuff delusions and you will be A OK

          • A person has to be pretty arrogant to say there is no God. There is evidence all around that says there is. There will always be questions but there are many more answers than questions. But if you want to believe that you are an accident, that the world is a cosmic accident, that we came from nowhere and are going nowhere, that there is no absolute good or evil but these terms are relative, and there is no purpose to anyone, anything or anything we do, say or believe that sounds extremely depressing and you can have it. I will continue to believe that God is good, that He is love, that I was created out of love and for a purpose, that my life has meaning and it matters and I’m going to be with God in the end of this very brief life here. Also that trials and suffering are for a purpose and I don’t have to have all the answers and know everything. Ask yourself, in a universe so vast and around so long and you being so small and alive for such a short period of time how can you know so much as you do anyway?

            • you can’t proove that there is no god.. but you can’t proove that there is a god either. how about we focus on survival and leave the religion to the biggest corp on the planet, the church.

      21. I’m no economist or PM expert. But I do believe the first sign that something is about to go really wrong is when they remove all cash and coin from circulation and everyone goes digital. With cash cards you can inflate, deflate at a whim. Total control.

        two decades ago I had a dream. I couldn’t figure it out at first. In the dream people were going to local town halls and turning in thier cash and having thier coins wieghed in exchange for what looked like a credit card.

        One woman in the dream told me she would get more moeny if she had her chnaged wieghed than rolling it like I suggested.

        the government will remove all bills and coins prior to collapse.

        • Rachel: They won’t bother you with a trip to the local town hall for a card….. Your social security number and IP address is all you’ll need to transfer that digital cash and when you piss them off ….. no ssn, no IP adress, no Rachel.

          Just thinking out loud.

          • Don’t even need the IP addy. 😉

      22. I’m not an economist, but I play one on the internet. Therefore, you should trust me on this. I know what I’m talking about.
        Under normal circumstances, bonds or real estate would be a logical and safe place to invest while the dollar is under a bit of stress (as it is now). However these are NOT normal times. In fact, having recently checked the time, I find it to be about 9pm. Further investingation, using a very dependable calendar, shows that it is also FRIDAY night! And, it’s the 1st of the month too! So I know you all got your checks today. That’s fantastic! Obviously, then, we should all get together at okie’s place for a little mind-numbing escapism. Y’all bring the alcohol and food and I’ll provide the music and the lamp shades! I’m tuning my guitar even as we speak.

        Tonight we’re gonna party like it’s 1929 !!!
        (I think I’ve found my new signature trademark)

        • That’s a good signature Smokin.

          I told this to my secretary today (she’s 25), at first she thought I was nuts. I told her that gas today is cheaper than it was in 1960, in terms of real money. You could see the blank look in her eyes. I went on to explain… In 1960 you could buy a gallon of gas for .25c. A quarter was 90% silver. Today that silver quarter is worth in the area of $6. If you take the time to do the math, a gallon of gas today costs about .13c in 1960 money. .13c compared to $3.30/gal in our area.

          That’s how much our dollar has been devalued in the past 50 years. I don’t know if she really got it or not, it’s a slow process to undo the brainwashing they have gone through over their life. She’s a good kid, worth the effort I think.

      23. Great comparison. Only in my neck of the woods (rural alaska) gas is now 6.20 a gallon. Which would be actually about the same as 1960 in your explanation. Hmmm, not that bad actually.

        • I have NO problem with Alaska state dividends. They respect rights more so than any Fed laws but once a stimulas goes into effect, it’s difficult to call it back. Supply/demand/cost

          Thoughts? Drill baby drill. Coal to fuel. Natural gas. Bring it.

          Alaska residents cash in on dividend – US news – Life – msnbc.comwww.msnbc.msn.com/id/…/alaska-residents-cash-annual-dividend/ – CachedSep 5, 2008 – Alaskans have struck a $3269 bonanza in their Permanent Fund dividend payments this year. … Every resident to get $3269 in state oil royalties, energy rebate … People must live in Alaska one calendar year to qualify for the payout. For residents in Alaska’s rural communities, the money can’t …

      24. Clark: You are a real estate MORON! As the former Chief Appraiser Nationwide (both commercial and residential) for the mortgage subsidary of a major bank that is still operating, I can assure you that real estate values are indeed local.

        You are an economic and real estate idiot. Way, way, way, out of your element. I qualify as an Expert Witness for real estate in Court.

        You are a fucking imbecile!!! Get an education and get a life. You don’t know SQUAT!!!

        Again you have proven yourself UNINFORMED.

        • Durango,
          I could respect your opinion and what you say a lot more if you would act like an adult. You are not impressing people by sitting behind your keyboard and shouting out profanities and calling people names. I swear as good as the next guy, but not in public, not like this. I question your principals and values when you speak to others like this. I seriously doubt you would say that if you were standing face to face with him. I guarantee you wouldn’t say it to me, not more than once.

          • OKPrepper: Don’t care whether you respect my opinion or like me at all. What I say to Clark is none of your fucking business! I am not trying to win any friends here. You, I think, are fairly new. Clark and I have been going at it for some time.

            Now he has attacked me again without justification and showed his TOTAL ignorance about real estate, by scoffing that real estate value is not a local phenomena, calling my post BS. The fact that real estate values are local is a primary characteristic of real estate markets.

            Clark has no education, no experience, and lives in his mother’s basement sitting on his hands catching farts, living on google adsense, playing World of Warcraft on his game boy and promoting LOU Rockwall. He hasn’t done squat and doesn’t know squat.

            Yet he presents himself as an expert on economics and the banking system. Still, he didn’t know the most basic elements of the operation of the FED until I explained them to him. That is information that a first year student at a B school would know.

            He is a proponent of an arcane 17th century philosophy that has never existed and never will. There is no such thing as “free markets” or “free trade”. Yet the gangster banksters (and Clark)wave that banner like a flag when it has been used to destroy the American economy and until it threatens our national sovereignty.

            Clark doesn’t know shit about economics, finance, business, or real estate; yet he posts quotes and links to his daddy’s website to try to use this community to pump its hits. He’s a fucking shill!

            If you think I wouldn’t say this to his face or yours you don’t know me. Mind your own fucking business!

            • Now I Know who not to pay attention to anymore. Enjoy your yuppie reality; if you were my neighbor, I’m sure I would be stepping over your body after the SHTF. Really, you get angry about real estate and economics?

          • DurangoKidd and OKPrepper,
            I agree with OKPrepper about DurangoKIdd’s cussing rant against Clark. It’s OK to disagree, but come on, please, let’s be civil about it. Just the fact that we’re on this website means that we’re probably very likeminded. Contributors to this website are NOT the enemy. Let’s be civil to each other.

            • I’m with T on this one.

              DK, seriously – instead of appeal to authority, you can point to numerous facts and figures that are easily available online.

              Attack the facts, not the person.

            • DK has had the same MO for 2 years, contradicts himself regularly with authority, he is the expert on EVERYTHING even if that means changing his mind to make himself look right. Most everyone else is a moron, even if they agree with him 90%, he has to find something in most everyones comments to degrade. While he may be right on some things, he is no genius, most people with this problem have some kind of inferiority complex

            • OMG – That – was hilarious. Also, I’m getting to like this OKPrepper Person (and El Cid-77, and T, and Odd Questioner) well said.

            • Clark: You’re not entirely innocent either.

            • Yes, of course, Odd Questioner, I’m human.

      25. Y’all missed a heck of a party! We just finished a 5 hr AC/DC marathon. It got even better when the really good pickers joined in! You’ve never truly enjoyed “Back In Black” til you’ve heard it played on banjo, dulcimer and home-made plastic bucket drum, Wow! My ears are still ringing! The airport called and told us to quiet down, they couldn’t hear the planes coming in.
        And yall really should have been here for the rest of the entertainment. Once Junior, the logger, gets his 4th glass of shine drank he always demontrates his ‘flaming chainsaw juggling’ trick. Have to admit the boy is good. He bled less tonight than he ever has.
        And Mrs. Juinior graced us with her stunning performance during the Celine Dione karaoke contest. We judge the winner by how many coyotes they get to show up in the hay field. She usually wins. Got 8 tonight (and she holds the all-time record with 14). I think she’s the next Susan Boyle, only without the voice.
        And Rev Hicks lost $23 pitching horse shoes with the boys, so I KNOW we’re gonna hear about tithing next Sunday.
        We only had one small problem and that was early in the evening. Leroy, remembering there’s a burn ban in effect, decided to carry the charcoaler into the house. He set off all the smoke detectors but I couldn’t hear ’em over my wifes screaming. Boy is she po’d. Third time this year she’s had to wash the ceiling. (once was a motorcycle thing, had nothin’ to do with cooking)

        Most of the guests are either passed out or gone home so it’s time for me to gather up the leftover shoes (the ones that aint my size, I donate to charity), take the ear plugs outa the dogs (you can ruin a good hound with ac/dc if you aint careful), and clean up this place. Sure wish yall had been here!

        • Its early in the month yet (j/k)…..the only thing that oculd cause an immediate SHTF would be Qadafi making good on his threats to attack Europe and we get more involved there and he brings it to us.

          If they don’t reaise the debt limit by August 2 my guess is there could be real ugliness by the end of the that month by protestors here going violent – they almost did in Wisconsin and if they have to spend 1.6 trillion less on hand outs I think the masses will riot big time – Obumbler may want that to blame the Republicans and get himself re elected.

      26. Just watched the docu Money Masters again…..can’t get over how informative that docu is.

        Anyone else in here ever watch it?

      27. I’m off to camp david for a little vacation on the largest corporate most expensive kick ass aircraft in the world. You would not believe the operatoring cost per hour (no, you wouldn’t!). Not including the F-15/16 KC-10 air support. It has gotten me to 43 (I think)kampain $ raising dinners so far. I’ve been right here. You haven’t seen anything yet! Congress has maxed out amerika’s credit card so you will put your nose in the corner and do your homework which is late. My girl’s homework is never late. The military will do as I wish, which is to kill or die. And I, and meeshale will get phrumped up. I hope you like the change, I warned you about a transformation Joe sixpak.

      28. Howard, what do you think of the beginning and end gold/silver ratio’s?

      29. I was looking at a souvineer last edition of a local paper from around here yesterday. dated August 1982. Quite a surprising trip down memory lane to look at the classifieds, and see prices from 1982.
        It really adds meaning to what inflation really is. Even with good preparation, there is no way to avoid the problems with inflation, but at least we can know what’s coming, and do the best we can to avoid the full effects.

      30. NetRanger~~

        What was the name of the other shows you were starting to watch after being done with Jericho??
        Are they similar? Any other shows like Jericho on NetFlix?
        I feel like tv time for a while and a break from internet this weekend

        • BJ, hope you dont mind me butting in; there is a movie called ” THE TRIGGER EFFECT ” starring Dermot Mulroney. I have it on vhs and I only come across it once. Its ok to watch and does get its point across.

          • no such thing as butting in on an open public forum 🙂

            Thanks, I’ll see if I can find it. I just haven’t watched much tv at all in about 5 years. Lately I have been craving some veg out time in front of a tv show, the Jericho series got me hooked….and I love no commercials and watch as many episodes as you want in your own time frame

            • Had to watch it again on Netflix. Turned off the cable a couple of years ago (sound familiar). It gets better the second time. Great “veg” material that keeps you in the present.

      31. Inflation/deflation are purely monetary definitions. Neither has anything to do with the markets and everything to do with the percieved value of the monetary base.

        Having a currency backed by tangibles, as long as the currency value remains fixed to the tangibles, there is minimal inflation. If the tangibles increase in quantity, so does the monetary supply. The problem arises when the tangibles lack the most important properties; scarcity and durability. Hence wheat and soybeans lack both properties and therefore would fail as backing for currency.
        Now pricing in the market is all about supply/demand. The problem is one of confusion over what is the supply and what is the demand. The buyer wants goods and the seller wants money. The goods cost money to produce, distribute and market. The buyer trades labor for money. Prices increase when supply of goods drop below demand and/or the value of the dollar decreases. Keep in mind that supplies are delivered just in time. Hence in an economy experiencing inflation, replacement of sold goods cost more than what the goods on hand sold for. Pricing is not inflation, but rather a symptom of inflation.
        Zimbabwee failed because of land redistribution. The newly pacified guerillas got prime farmland and few if any were farmers. Couple that with the nationalization of mining and Zimbabwee’s exports dropped to nothing. Now add in gov’t largess to gov’t supporters and the outcome was inevitable. The land and mines were the economic driver and without exports, inflation was the only path to take from the political standpoint.

        Ooo, what are the exports of the US? Get the facts from the Dept of Commerce website. Now factor in the concept of disposable income.
        There is no such thing as a free market. It is open or closed. There is no managed market. It is mismanaged or no management. Even with the plethora of reporting mandated by gov’t, the data is always old. Ergo management is actually crisis management; manage your way from one crisis to the next.
        Real estate is local. Ever hear the term location, location, location? Pricing reflects credit availability as well as local demand. Remove easy credit and local demand drops. There’s a world of difference between desire and market demand.
        Quote: … As the former Chief Appraiser Nationwide (both commercial and residential) for the mortgage subsidary of a major bank that is still operating, I can assure you that real estate values are indeed local.

        You are an economic and real estate idiot. Way, way, way, out of your element. I qualify as an Expert Witness for real estate in Court. …

        Having been a real estate appraiser only means you have depth of understanding real estate pricing. It doesn’t imply vast breadth of economic knowledge. Ever hear of the “Peter Principle?”

        By the same token, I lack the depth yet have the breadth. Reckon that is what happens when you get bored with one field of economic endeavour and find a new field every 3-5 years for 40+ years. Blue collar – woo hoo, white collar – boring. The easiest way to get me to leave was by making me a manager. Within a couple years I would change jobs and start studying the new field.

        No problem planting tomatoes and potatoes fairly close together. The pollination problem doesn’t exist to any degree. The difference is blooming period and genetics. BTW, just who saves potato seeds anyway. Besides, unless all you neighbors within a 1/4 mile grow the same variety of tomatoes, you will wind up with hybrids anyway.
        In my area of Alaska, gas has just dropped to under $5 a gallon. Just under. If where I want to go is less than 5 miles or so, I ride a bicycle. My options are starve the beast or starve myself. I got right fond of eating quite regular.

        Until a few yaers ago when I altered my lifestyle, my transportation costs were about what I use to make a month in 1969. Ain’t inflation neat? Oh and lastly, yes we pay a smaller percenatage of our incomes for many goods now. We just run a much higher debt load for non-essentials. Debt drives inflation through fractional banking. The big question is what is the true level of fractional? 13%, 7% or more probably somewhere around 1.8%. Isn’t the Fed leveraged at about 53-1? How about the “mark to model” on real estate held as collateral by the banks?

      32. The dollar will never collapse because it is unlike any other currency in the history of the planet !!! Everything on the planet is based upon the health of the dollar and other countries will not allow it to collapse !!

      33. OTE: If appraisal was my only career experience you would be right about my depth and lack of breath. I have also brokered, managed, leased, and developed property.

        However since that appraisal experience spanned every major market segment in the US and every type of real estate from garden office to high rise towers, strip centers to 250,000 sq ft power centers, duplexes to 350 unit multi family residential, raw land to subdivisions, and shacks to the luxury residential works of art by the best architects in the country; I feel like I am sufficiently schooled and experienced to state that “real estate values are local” in nature without a criticism from Clark so he can promote his daddy’s website.

        Real estate has not been my only experience, as I did manage to get BOTH Chase and Citicorp to commit to a LBO to the tune of $50 million each back in the ’80’s. Investment bankers do not commit that kind of money without confidence in the financier and the business plan.

        The last 12 years has been devoted to mining and energy because I saw the hand writing on the wall, even back then. I am not a geologist but have located a new mine that any geologist would kill for. There are only seven like it in all of North America, and the more “free trade” and “free markets” that are foisted upon the American people destroying the economy by creating inflation as we know and expect it: the richer I get.

        At the time of my discovery gold was $350 an oz; palladium, around $400, and platinum around $900. You are smart eneough to do the math.

        Today I am pursuing energy interests and expect to spend my own money to secure 100,000 acres of oil & gas leases and fund the drilling of 5 discovery wells.

        So, I have been there and done that, on my own. I know what I am talking about. Clark doesn’t

        • I like how another poster put it, “we shall find out who was right and who was full of shit.”
          All I read above from DK was, how DK is/was a banker spewing the banker line.
          And no, DK didn’t get a a criticism from Clark, DK got a criticism via thehousingbubbleblog.com and those guys (and girls) know their stuff.

          • Clark: How do you get that I am the one “spewing the banker line”? YOU are the one pushing the gangster bankster mantra of “Free Trade” that has destroyed the American economy.

            I am vehemently opposed to it.

            And how do you figure that I received a criticism from the housingbubble.com? I didn’t realize THEY had posted here. Are you delirious?

            Real estate values are local as real estate markets are local. Look around dumbshit, the values in Miami, for example, are not the same as those in San Francisco.

            I am surprised that you even have the nerve to debate that point. Its a BASIC characteristic of real estate. that you continue to try to support an untenable position is par for the course. You are a fucking MORON!

            What, no link to your daddy’s website? If you don’t push the website you won’t get your allowance. Finish your GED before September and enroll as fast as you can.

            You need a formal education. Cut and paste isn’t working for you.

            • Currently All real estate values depend upon national lending policy, something that is often discussed on thehousingbubbleblog.com, among other things, such as; Realtwhores are liars and often times appraisers are too, they both underhandedly helped to propel a market that was built on lies and deception.


              “The term Free Trade simply means that business people and others in the private markets ought to be able to trade freely with each other. But much as immigration has been perverted in terms of control, so Free Trade has been twisted around.”


      34. Possible dollar collapse mid to late July 2011 according to The Vulcan Report.

      35. I have plans to feed the family and lay-low during the 1-3 year Sarijevo-style riot-fest with ample stored food, geedunk, firepower, medical supplies and like-minded neighbors (including high-ranking police in my community)

        If the financial turmoil situation hasn’t died-down by then (or killed itself off by then) if we’re still alive it will be plan B: fall-back to the ranch and hold until relieved.

        • Smart sailor.

        • Been to Sarajevo during and after the civil war (had to try and one-up Durango Kid), hats off to you and your direction. I really believe that many think that the prepping lifestyle is a game with no end,You clearly do not. I look foreward to extended dialogue with likemindes people on this site.

          • Likeminded. Hands don’t work like I want them to sometimes!

      36. You worked for for decades to pay down a mortgage on a place that is not worth squat and no body wants to buy. Your life savings wont buy enough gold to fill a tooth, Good thing you got that big 401K to bad they wont let you get out of it unless you quit your job. Its all a scam. buy some storable food http://houseofthewise.myefoods.com and the means to protect it. Income after SHIFT Start a brewery.

      37. I like the Ozarks Boyz but JC in black suits me SO. I’ve been almost everywhere man.

        • breath the mountain air, man. JC was definitely one of the best!

          • Strange that you would say that. I have breathed the air around more world that most for 30 years and I long for the mountain air on a lake cabin but I’ll take the ocean air. Other people here that don’t support the troops are so short sighted it makes me sick but they don’t want to see (the big picture). Their day is predicktabull. The world’s ocean is damn near free, some use GPS in their world, most will never ride a submarine, launch off of an aircraft carrier at night, refuel at FL370, miss a meal or be asked to pick up pieces of their friend or attend a military funeral and thank the people that lost their loved one with just a look in their eye. Shallow bottom feeders. Put another gallon of fuel in your car while shopping for a ding dong or twinkee. Are some here prepared to give it all for the person next you tonight on a simple oath.

            Let’s be clear on this: OBAMA did NOT kill Bin Laden. An American sailor, who Obama, just a few weeks ago, was debating on whether or not to PAY, did. In fact, if you remember a little less than two years ago, his administration actually charged and attempted to court-martial 3 Navy Seals from Seal Team Six, when a terrorist suspect they captured, complained they had punched him during the take down and bloodied his nose. His administration further commented how brutal they were. The left were calling them Nazi’s and Baby Killers. Now all of a sudden, the very brave men they vilified are now heroes when they make his administration look good in the eyes of the public. Obama just happened to be the one in office when the CIA finally found the b…… And our sailors took him out. Essentially, Obama only gave an answer. Yes or No, to him being taken out. This is NOT an Obama victory. Some say that we send our best while speaking big. You have that right.

            • Very good points Slim.

            • Buncha B.S. as The Daily Bell has repeatedly said, Osama kicked the bucket from Marfan’s syndrome long ago. If you think the military took out Osama this year, psft, you’re gullible and easily misled and might want to work on that.

            • How many SEALS or flight crew members onboard CVN-70 do you know? I trust the military more than any politician. Have you ever worked with them? If not, you might want to work on that a bit. You are gullible and easily misled until I see some hard proof that stinks. NO Commanding Officer/0-7 over an aircraft carrier is going to allow a cover up while in charge of his ship/crew to be duped like that when all it takes is one moron that could shine the light. But you go with your Daily Bell and what they said repeatedly.

            • Uh, yeah, Slim, just like the Gulf of Tonkin?
              And Peal Harbor?
              And the Main?
              Et al…
              If you trust the military, that means you trust a politician.

      38. I have to agree with DK. The FED has not printed enough money to initiation hyperinflation. We will get double digit stagflation(unemployment and inflation). Yes we have alot of debt but look at Japan they have been doing QE since the 80s. Hyperinflation only occurs when there is not faith in the currency. There are countries whose currencies worse then ours(GBP,Euro,Rembini,Rubble,etc).These currencies are going to collapse.The US dollar is backed by our powerful military. We have the most aircraft carriers,hyper fast rail guns,best fighter jets,the best tank on earth M1 Abrams,and best trained personnel on earth. China is going to face hyperinflation because since 2009 they have been printing money on stimulus on ghost cities and a bubbling real estate bubble. Food prices in China are even worse at home. I used to be a hyper doomer but when you look at America’s history we have faced worse(invasion in War of 1812,Civil War,panics and depressions in the past. We will face stagflation like during the Carters years for a long period of time,but we will come out of it alive. This is coming from a kid who used to think that America would be a shattered union. Sorry hyper doomers but we will not face hyperinflation or a complete economic collapse. The worst we can get is a prolonged stagflationary depression. We produce the most food on earth and we are the Saudi Arabia of natural gas and coal.

        • Mardochee Augustin says, “The FED has not printed enough money to initiation hyperinflation.”

          Are you sure about that?
          Do you understand the money supply?

          • Clark: explain the money supply to US in your own words. I don’t want to see quotes that are cut and pasted, I want to see a thorough, logical, rationale in your own words Clark.

            Please don’t tell me that you didn’t plan on explaining the money supply to US, clark. Please don’t tell me that your comment to MA was just a tease to create a link to your daddy’s site.

            Com’on Clark, tell US why Bernanke has created all that money but WE don’t have hyper inflation yet. I am sure you have the answer Clark. Don’t hide it. Spit it out!

      39. I think the average Joe and Joanne can now see that prices are starting to be out of reach for some items, such as fine steaks, seafood, spareribs,etc.
        We are touching the tip of hyperinflation, but we haven’t seen anything yet.

        Most people on this board with average jobs $10-$15 hour will be the new American poor.

        Items such as steak, lobster, will be out of reach for them, except maybe on a rare occasions such as anniversary or B day.

        It is going to be very painful for a lot of people to look upon the very few who can afford such items.

        There is going to be a lot of hatred in the streets. It is going to get very ugly.

      40. MA: Well the FED has probably PRINTED enough money to start hyperinflation, but as long as it sits in the accounts of the member banks of the FED to protect their liquidity it won’t impact the economy. And the economy will continue to stumble along.

        The major banks now hold more than 95% of the derivates between them; (which is a marketplace of trillions of dollars in bets) and most of the derivatives exposure held by other entities historically outside of the FED system, like AIG, have been liquidated now. So the danger of an outside entity like AIG bringing the house of cards down, like before, has been mitigated.

        This was the purpose of QE2 & 3.

        As the exposure to default is eliminated by retiring much of these bad derivates, the MB’s will have more money than they need to maintain their liquidity and will be free (within limits) to start easing these funds into the economy in the form of loans and lines of credit.

        Additionally the gangster banksters are withholding disbursement of these funds to put pressure on O’bummer and Congress to relax oversight again, claiming they cannot stimulate the economy under the new guidelienes. Its a chicken and egg argument that the gangster banksters want to win.

        Personally, I think this timing for credit easing begins after the first of the year to prime the pump for Obama’s re-election. Afterall, Uncle Ben was appointed by O’bummer, and O’bummer is going to want to be able to say that the economy is on track and improving without excessive inflation.

        It will take 6 to 9 months of priming the pump with easier credit to get the economy humming again. Its all about the timing to confuse the American public.

        • Thanks for the info DK. If credit easing does start as you said the economic hardship could be lessen.They will probably do it in a slow pace. On derivatives do US banks have exposure to debt by the PIIGS in case of mass contagion? And do they have enough liquidity to cover their losses to prevent a mass panic. If the euro does collapse what will happen to US banks? Anyway thanks for the info.

          • MA: I do not know what the exposure of the major banks are to the PIIGs. Just knew that 95% of the bets are held by, between, and among themselves.

            I am not a specialist here with D’s. Someone looking in may know. But it seems to me that if the SYSTEM is holding 95% of the bets between themselves then they can profit from those that work, hold, and discount the ones that don’t. Just like mortgages.

            I believe the recent silver crash was manufactured to allow the banks to dispose of their silver shorts, as an example. These types of things will continue to deflect losses that would otherwise be absorbed.

            I do not believe the Euro will collapse. In the end three PIIGS will exit. China has publicly supported the Euro and why not? As long as the US, Europe, and China play this distorted game of Three Card Monte, China wins.

            On second thought, credit easing may begin in early Nov of this year as a pyschological lift for Christmas. OUR form of Bread and Circuses, ya know?

            Be safe. Have you moved yet?

            • I am planning to do so soon. My girlfriend is also majoring in Podiatry,she said she found a school perfect for us in Virginia Beach. We have plans to move with five other friend to Virginia this time next year. I plan to stay in Virgina even after I am done with Podiatry school. I told my parents this and reluctantly agreed with the idea. So I am leaving police state New York and not looking back. My family is planning to move to Rochester,New York. So everyone I know is leaving.

          • Thomas Jefferson was concise in his early warning to the American nation, “If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issuance of their currency, first by inflation and then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around them will deprive the people of all their property until their children will wake up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered.”

            Ayn Rand

            “When you see that trading is done, not by consent, but by compulsion- When you see that in order to produce, you need to obtain permission from men who produce nothing- when you see that money is flowing to those who deal, not in goods, but in favors- when you see that men get richer by graft and by pull than by work, and your laws don’t protect you against them, but protect them against you- when you see corruption being rewarded and honesty becoming a self-sacrifice- you may know that your society is doomed.”

            “When a society establishes criminals-by-right and looters-by-law, men who use force to seize the wealth of disarmed victims, then money becomes its creators’ avenger. Such looters believe it safe to rob defenseless men, once they’ve passed a law to disarm them. But their loot becomes the magnet for other looters, who get it from them as they got it. Then the race goes, not to the ablest at production, but to those most ruthless at brutality. When force is the standard, the murderer wins over the pickpocket. And then that society vanishes, in a spread of ruins and slaughter.”

            “When you have made evil the means of survival, do not expect men to remain good. Do not expect them to stay moral and lose their lives for the purpose of becoming the fodder of the immoral. Do not expect them to produce, when production is punished and looting rewarded. Do not ask, ‘Who is destroying the world?’ You are.”

            When those that control the world economy are criminal, one can only stave off the inevitable. Before this is all over we will have one single world currency, a single world government mandated religion and the children will turn against their parents because the Zionist controlled media will convince them that all of the hardship was caused by their parents decadence.

            “Our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the powers, against the world forces of this darkness, against the spiritual forces of wickedness in the HEAVENLY PLACES” (Eph.6:12).

      41. El-Cid 77: The fued with Clark is longstanding. I susbscribe to the Israeli rules of war. He attacked me first. I responded.

        It is not likely that you will be stepping over my body when the shtf. I am an ex-marine, Viet Nam Vet, and was born on the wrong side of the tracks.

        I just refused to stay there.

        I can hold my own with anyone. Clark picked a fight because he wants the controversy and wants to generate hits on his daddy’s link.

        If you believe the gangster banksters are doing YOU are favor with free trade and open markets (OURS), then by all means follow his links.

        If you believe that the gangster banksters, PTB, globalists, and free traders have destroyed the American economy by transfering 45,000 factories, many millions of jobs, suppressed the wages of the American worker, taxpayer and family then do not click his link.

        If you believe the globlists that push “free trade” and “open markets” have undermined American sovereignty by encouraging 30 million illegals into the country to make them “new Americans” to dissolve the US Constitution and replace it with the NAU and a compact with the UN, then do not click his link.

        So you see, its about much more than real estate and economics. Its about whether this country wakes up in time to stop the onslaught of the gangster banksters, globalists, and free traders.

        I got mine. Get yours. Happy 4th of July!

        • Got it, Wil-Co. I just thought some of your comments were pretty vitriolic. Keep your powder dry and your head down!

        • WFT? So funny, how about, click the links I provided and make up your own damn mind? Ever think of saying that?
          Being anti-free trade is being anti-American.

          Yes, we know you got yours, so what?

          • Clark: Being anti-free trade is being anti-American? God are you a dumbshit! You have been brainwashed son!

            “Free Trade” is the mantra of the GLOBALIST Gangster Banksters who have destroyed the American economy and created a financial environment so that YOU cannot afford an education. Look around Clark. I got mine. You will never get yours, and you can thank the GLOBALISTS that chant “Free Trade” for that.

            They have stripped America of its means of production so that WE cannot pay our bills, transferred more than 42,400 factories, tens of millions of American jobs, and trillions of dollars in lost US GDP to China and India so that THEY, the gangster banksters, can make immoral profits at the expense of the American family and taxpayer to satiate a Gekko Greed.

            Do not equate “Free Trade” with FREEDOM, Clark. Don’t equate “Pro Choice” as a rationale for ABORTION! Thats a good analogy because that is what has happened to the American way of life.

            It IS an abortion because the GLOBALISTS are undermining American sovereignty, looking to dissolve the US Constitution and replace it with a compact with the UN.

            If they are successful (and I do not think they will be successful; read Washingtons vision) your life will be a total piece of shit! If you are going to push “free trade” you might as well bend over and kiss your ass goodbye. You and your generation will be living on Google Adsense and you will never leave your mother’s basement.

            An abortion that threatens our true freedoms, because it threatens OUR Sovereignty.

            • “Today, what passes for Free Trade is actually something called managed trade.”


              A.K.A. mercantilism.

              Who pushes the mercantilist bent?
              Who consistently claims the Ben Bernake knows what he’s doing?
              Who claims the goberment is full of smart People?
              Who claims inflation, “is nothing’?
              It sure as heck isn’t me pushing the NWO theme.

      42. JJ says: @ July 1, 2011 at 11:25 pm…

        Hey, I didn’t print that—or type that…or say that!!!

        Who is using my JJ????

      43. Okay—hell, I’m pissed—someone is using my JJ…people, the azzhole being rude is not me…I was raised better with manners…

        So, Mac, how do we settle this little problem??
        I was here first!!!

      44. JJ: It was probably anonymous. WE blame everything on anonymous! 🙂

      45. But…someone stole my identity—like –I don’t want folks here to think those ugly words are from me!!
        I have no idea what’s being discussed anyhow—I’m just an ex teacher learning prepping skills.

        • JJ,
          I used to use “Terry”, but then another Terry showed up, so now I’m “T”. There’s no patent or copyright on names or initials, so I don’t think there’s much you can do.

          • no one owns any id here, quit your crying

            • Do you see me crying??? I am not a whiny—I am a pretty tough little girl.

      46. JJ: No harm, no foul. You can tell by the content, word useage, and special identifiers who it is. (Pffft) 🙂

        This person should be banned for stealing someones ID. He doesn’t make a contribution worth keeping away.

      47. Hard to imagine anyone being naive enough to say there will be no hyper-inflation. “The big guys would loose too much”. The big guys being spoke of are just bigger fish than us. They are not the ones that control the world currency. The ones that control the price of gold, silver, the worth of the world currencies. They print the world currencies, they are the ones responsible for the world wide economic mess. They are the ones that will drop the price of gold, silver then out law owning gold, silver. They are the ones that caused the housing bubble, they are the ones that caused the dot com crash. They are the ones that have for year created bubbles, all the gullible people have taken part in their bubble. They crashed the worth of your home will crash the worth of gold. Are crashing the entire world currencies. And some say there will be no hype-inflation. Amazing.
        You can’t possible think the world wide economic mess is a coincidence. You don’t understand that all of this is about a one world currency? Plastic only.

      48. Ok Guys its 7:30pm in magaritaville, the parade has passed by, the Rodeo is over for the night, and the party is starting. Gotta run!

      49. Hey JJ, it’s probably Jane….they messed up her lithium dose again 😉

        J/K JJ, I wouldn’t worry about it, like DK said, people who know you and come here often will know that isn’t you talking like that

      50. alpharubicon.com has great information on prepping. If you haven’t visited this site you may want to soon.

        • I looked and stopped looking as soon as I seen “support the troops and the war on terrorism”

          • Non-clueless comment, BJ.

            • Not sure I understand your comment Clark?

            • By making that comment you come across as someone who is not clueless.

        • thanks, Scott..headed there now—today, Sam’s Club’s rice was cheaper..go figure!!

      51. Hypeinflation you aint seen nothing yey

      52. Given my field, I’ve been aware of these stats for years but it’s like pulling teeth to convince others that they’re true.


        People want to believe that the US is more healthy, more free, more everything than any other place, but it’s just that. A belief. To say otherwise is to be unpatriotic, or even a traitor.

        We send our best not to fight for freedom, but for oil, wealth and political gain. We “invent” wars.

        Many slap big bumper stickers on their SUVs proclaiming how much they believe in freedom and then go home to their suburb where a home owners association dictates their every move on their own property.

        We claim how well educated we are while at least half of the nation is scientific illiterate and spends obscenes amount of money on pseudoscientific products but can’t pass a basic chemistry or math test and still thinks evolution is controversial.

        We have been living an illusion for quite some time. We have to re-earn that “greatest” title. Every generation should do this. We can’t simply live on the deeds of previous generations and pretend that it’s something that “we” accomplished. We have to fight for the title: The Greatest Nation on Earth.

        • I was with you on all of it right up til “still thinks evolution is controversial.” Evolution is a relatively new, unproven and unprovable theory. Its basic tenets have been shifted, manipulated and kept in a fuzzy, undefined state since its inception. And its supporting theses have changed more often than Lindsey Lohan’s level of intoxication. And known, documented hoaxes by its proponents have been repeatedly brought to light. And even after the hoax is revealed the disinformation is still published in textbooks for years afterward. The evolutionists have a ‘belief’ in it and they continue to push that ‘belief’ regardless of the facts. Sounds like a religion to me. If I’m gonna embrace a religious belief, I’ll need a lot more evidence than evolution has provided thusfar.
          As for everything else you said– I heartily concur.

          • SmokinOkie said, “I was with you on all of it right up til “still thinks evolution is controversial.””

            Dang, glad I wasn’t the only one.

        • “but can’t pass a basic chemistry or math test and still thinks evolution is controversial.”

          Point of order…

          When you mention evolution, do you mean micro or macro? The answer makes a big difference, no?

          Personally, I can point to the general theory of evolution, especially on the micro scale, and say that yes, it is good, sound science. On the macro scale, there is still a wee bit to prove, though I do not discount the whole thing, nor am I the type to say that the Earth is only 6,000 years old (I mean, honestly? Expecting God to hew to the human-invented calendar is a bit arrogant, no?)

          OTOH, I did want to touch on something…

          I agree with you viz alternative medicines. Homeopathic medicines do have some value in health maintenance and even some rare instances, but they are not going to replace pharmacology with anywhere near the same efficacy. Also, understand that a lot of folks in here confuse the two. Some herbs and plants do have pharmacological effects, but are not homeopathy. A lot of homeopathy is not pharmacology.

          It’s a lot like saying that chiropractic is the same as orthopedic. Truth is, it isn’t, but most folks don’t know, and the chiropractor isn’t in any hurry to distance himself from the public perception of medical prestige that an MD with a specialty in Orthopedic Medicine comes with.

          All that said, to be honest, human knowledge is a bit too big nowadays to expect folks to know a lot of things. Personally, I can do quaternion rotations using non-euclidian math, and have even written code in C++ to do it. I have designed entire industrial control systems in the past. I get paid very nicely at my new job to act as a technical liaison between programmers, engineers, and very large corporate customers. OTOH, if you asked me about subjects beyond the engineering and (basic) psychological disciplines, I’d have to start looking things up.

          I’m pretty sure that there are many others in here who have similarly specialized. There is an even larger number of people who never had the education and/or opportunity to seek further than what is pertinent to their day-to-day survival.

          Thing is, this is common to humanity, and is not restricted to any nationality, or any other discernible group of people (after all, how many doctors and accountants know how to weld?)

        • hear, hear!!!

          too many dumbies looking for answers in books written thousands of years ago by men with a chip on their shoulder and a desire to control the poeple in tehir immediate region. it’s silly that mighty whities want to institute these misguided ideas as law.

          freedom and libery, by definition, demand that undue influence by all religious, corporate, and governmental institutions be removed.

          • sam- the 1st reply had no reference at all to the disagreement between established religion and evolution. I only said that evolution must be accepted on faith because it lacks factual foundations- so it’s a religion. When you reply by attacking established religions and insulting the beliefs of anybody, no matter what the beliefs are, is still a shot aimed at the wrong target. The point was that belief in evolution (at least on a macro scale) is not a settled issue. Out of all of Charlies comment that was the only part I disagreed with. A belief in macro evolution is no different than any belief held by someone in spite of the absence of any verifyable evidence. OQ mentioned the micro/macro areas of evolution and I’m pretty much in agreement with it. I can certainly admit that there are things that are still open to debate, and the age of the earth is one of them. We can believe that the earth is 6 thousand yrs old, or 6 million or 6 billion, it doesn’t matter as long as we’re still willing to look at reliable evidence and be guided by that. My point was that, in spite of its widespread acceptance, evolution has no reliable evidence to back up the belief that people have in it. In the last 80 yrs or so, the evolutionists have stated as FACT the age of the earth to be 600 million yrs, then 1 to 2 billion, then 4 billion then 6 billion. All these shifting numbers are said to be ‘facts’ and are presented as scientific truths when in reality they are nothing of the sort! If you can find ’em, check out some old textbooks from the 1920s through the 60s and see for yourself.
            As far as comparing evolution to (other) religions- The proponents of evolution use fabricated ‘evidnece’ to bolster the theory. And they are more organized and willing to use legislation, media propaganda and the courts to push their theory than ANY established religion does to push their beliefs. So to imply that evolution should be accepted as true is ridiculous. If it is accepted at all, it must be accepted on faith, not evidence. That still sounds like religion to me- and a weak one at that!

          • You are still in luck Sam. God still loves morons that deny him. After all, he created you. What has man, lesbians & homo’s created?

        • “still thinks evolution is controversial.” Are you kidding. Evolution takes more faith to believe in than Creationism. There is not one single piece of evidence that proves one species evolved into another. Do creatures adapt to their environment? Yes. What kind of God would not give his creations that ability. On Netflix there is a movie, “Incredible Creatures That Defy Evolution.” Even the most die hard skeptics can not argue with the scientific evidence that evolution is a bunch of hooey.

      53. As bad as things under the surface appear…
        and even if things may be starting to crack…
        but hopefully for some here things are not yet SFHT… and hopefully we can take one day off and celebrate the freedom we have/had while growing up and living in the greatest country during the greatest time period in the history of Earth.

        Who knows what next week, next month, next year brings, so live for today…..

        Happy Birthday America… I STILL LOVE YOU!!!!!

      54. I’m with you on all of it Charlie.

        But, but it’s worse. Because of the illiteracy, the people are almost completely driven by passions that are manipulated by the press, advertisers, environmental groups and gov’t officials(?).

        The public generally has no creativity or deep curiousity. O yah they are curious about Lindsay Lohan, but I’m taking about stuff like “how does this gizmo work” or researching some aspect of a hobby.

        And creative? Almost everything new that has a potentially large market is the product of committees or maybe I just say study groups. When I grew up, we had erector sets and Gilbert Chemistry Sets with real chemicals that could and did cause some domestic disputes often resulting in the chemistry set being relocated to the garbage can. There were radio kits, television kits and shudder, shudder how about an autogyro that you actually piloted.

        But still wait there is more. For the next 10 callers, … . It is even worse. In the name of protecting our children, we eliminated most of the so-called dangerous products and with them went our children’s daring. It is this willingness to try that moulds the creative spirit. Part of this is parental stupidity, but another part is the slight error of “hiring teachers fresh out of school who have zero life experience.” These teachers move on and up the chain of command to become administrators. More on the 6 o’clock newshour.

        We no longer ask the tough questions. And worse, we don’t know enough to ask the question. Just watch the news. We wind up in conflicts over the definition of inflation. We never ask, “What is this seasonally adjusted nonsense? What are the actual numbers?” Or even more importantly, “What is your definition of inflation Mr. Bernakke oh and please define hyperinflation in simple english?”

        DK just been in exploratory phase myself. Was and still is mostly placer, but looking to lode now. Spent all of last winter self-studying orogenesis and economic geology. Hence the lode exploratory work. Kept me in beans, but nearby areas are getting worked out. Please just a few more ounces, I promise I won’t piss it away this time.

        Folks, just look around. Decide for yourself. Keep track of your grocery and gas bills. Inflation or hyperinflation prelude? Perhaps it all depends on what helicopter Ben defines it to be.

        • OTE: There is a great mapping link on SHTF Mining, “MinersCache” which is connected to Google Earth. You gotta try it!

          Always best to find your own, but tt might help you find a few more placers (and lode claims) that you didn’t know existed in your neck of the woods. I will be going there shortly and catching the fever tomorrow.

          There is a second page that is accessed via the Other State Clubs link where you can connect to like minded people in your area.

          GPAA may have some placer claims in your area, and if they do, you don’t have to reinvent the wheel. There will be gold to be found on their claims, all you have to do is join to use them.

          For a good book to read this winter (if you are house bound in winter or have some time to read), try: The Geology of Ore Deposits. Its 900 pages. Its a college text that I picked up at the University of Arizona some years ago. Everything you every wanted to know about economic geology.

          I read it. Re-read it. And read it again. It’s a great read.

      55. BJ says:
        July 3, 2011 at 1:37 pm I looked and stopped looking as soon as I seen “support the troops and the war on terrorism”

        And when I get those emails, I send a lecture something like Charlies’s post @ 8:07 am…
        “””We send our best not to fight for freedom, but for oil, wealth and political gain. We “invent” wars”””

      56. Question: Any thoughts from this group on the Berkey table top water filters? Any opinions are appreciated. Thanks.

        • Dunno offhand – I’ve never tried one of that particular design.

        • Charlie–all I can say is I have no problem with the Berkey Light and the filters are good for 6000 gallons…
          I still have alum (for sediment), coffee filters (for fine rocks/sediment), pool shock, and the boiling option…
          Why?? because I feel I’m not always gonna be filtering faucet water—just saying!!
          Ordering 2 extra elements/filters are $99—on the ‘to get’ list.
          Buy Tang..good for vitamin C and hiding pool shock taste in water if used. Usually on sale for $2…I have a shelf full.
          Happy christian day, folks!! Can I say that here??

        • Charlie,
          I have the Big Berkey, just set it up a couple weeks ago to try it out. I am using the two black filters that came in the package. You can use as many as four at one time. Since it relies on gravity to work, it filters fast for a while then slows down as the water level drops.

          Some of the drawbacks are no way to know how much filtered water there is in the bottom container without lifting up the top to see. It would be nice to have some kind of a sight gauge on the side, but that would make it difficult to clean and bacteria would eventually start to accumulate in the gauge.

          I overfilled it one night and woke up to find water all over the sink and floor. It takes a little while to develop a system of filling and using.

          Taste is good, I have been drinking home filtered water for nearly 30 years and can’t notice any difference. They heavily chlorinate the water in my area during the summer months so we are forced to filter or suffer with stomach problems.

          It’s kinda pricey, but the quality and fit is good.
          I give it a thumbs up, hope that helps.

          • They make a nice sight glass for it. Worth the money. I would never put in four filters at one time unless filtering for a large group of people. One white filter is all that is needed. Use a fridge pitcher filter such as Zero Water to fill and treat for chlorine after. When your fridge pitcher is empty fill Berkey with one pitcher and take one pitcher out to put back in fridge. Clean monthly if using tap water. They make more money on the black filters is why they push them.

        • @ Charlie –

          The Berkey table top water filters are a bit on the large size Charlie …. unless you know that you are going to be staying there in one place and not moving around or bugging out.

          JJ says that the Berkey can purify 6,000 gallons of water before a filter replacement in required.

          Take a look at the Katadyn Combi Filter. You can get it complete for less than $175 with the o-ring replacement/repair kit for around $10. It filters 13,000 + gallons before a filter replacement is required. It comes in its own storage bag measuring approximately 4″ in diameter x 15″ in length. So it fits into your pack. US Army Special Forces A Teams use them in third world conditions.

          Just my thoughts, and NO …. I don’t own stock in the company.

      57. From SurvivalBlog.com, “Jim’s quote of the day”

        “Before a standing army can rule, the people must be disarmed; as they are in almost every kingdom in Europe. The supreme power in America cannot enforce unjust laws by the sword; because the whole body of the people are armed….”- Noah Webster, An Examination of the Leading Principles of the Federal Constitution, 1787


          In 1929, the Soviet Union established gun control. From 1929 to 1953, about 20 million dissidents, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.

          In 1911, Turkey established gun control. From 1915 to 1917, 1.5 million Armenians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.

          Germany established gun control in 1938 and from 1939 to 1945, a total of 13 million Jews and others who were unable to defend themselves were rounded up and exterminated.

          China established gun control in 1935. From 1948 to 1952, 20 million political dissidents, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.

          Guatemala established gun control in 1964. From 1964 to 1981, 100,000 Mayan Indians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.
          —- ————- ————-

          Uganda established gun control in 1970. From 1971 to 1979, 300,000 Christians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.

          Cambodia established gun control in 1956. From 1975 to 1977, one million educated people, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.

          Defenseless people rounded up and exterminated in the 20th Century because of gun control: 56 million.

          You won’t see this data on the US evening news, or hear politicians disseminating this information.

          Guns in the hands of honest citizens save lives and property and, yes, gun-control laws adversely affect only the law-abiding citizens.

          Take note my fellow Americans, before it’s too late!

          The next time someone talks in favor of gun control, please remind them of this history lesson.

          With guns, we are ‘citizens’. Without them, we are ‘subjects’.

          During WW II the Japanese decided not to invade America because they knew most Americans were ARMED!

          If you value your freedom, please spread this antigun-control message to all of your friends.

          The purpose of fighting is to win.
          There is no possible victory in defense.
          The sword is more important than the shield, and skill is more important than either.
          The final weapon is the brain.
          All else is supplemental.


          IT’S A NO BRAINER!

        • Wasn’t it China that said they would NEVER invade America because behind EVERY door was a gun???

          • @ JJ –

            I believe that the quote that you reference was made by the WWII Japanese Admiral Isoroku Yamamoto. Something to do with a rifle behind every blade of grass.

            • Yes, I’ve seen that one with the pic of the girl holding the rifle?? But, I read a speech by a military official and it was very enlightening about what plans were in store for our nation…scary!!!

      58. Charlie, the Feds that sold the guns to Mexican Gangs are going to use that to go around the 2nd amendment, then the US will be disarmed.

        • yeah but now Holder has egg on his face, and so does Hillary..hell they all do..

          and all I got to say about the disarming of the USA..do they feel lucky? well do they..
          and no im not playing Clint..they dont have all the knowledge of all the guns here, (and thats obvious as to how they handeled the Gunwalker deal)..they fucking killed one of thier own with their stupidity…and it was supposed to back fire on us..well they fucked that up too.
          their competency level is shit!

          all im saying is they will never find all of mine..and most shot guns and long rifles are non -registerd firearms.
          so how do they know what you have and how many?

      59. Although it looks like we are headed for a grand default, or a hyper-inflationary calamity, I submit to you that to me, it seems like they plan to avert societal breakdown at that scale by involving us in a world war. The chessboard is being arranged as I write, and for so long now America has been used as the pawn of the globalists . America has been doing the dirty work all around the world, in every area of conflict, always the aggressor, always controlling the resources for the benefit of the same corporate government.

        The only resource to invest in is your own food supply…
        http://www.bereadytosurvive shows you how. Seeds will be worth more than GOLD!

      60. Although it looks like we are headed for a grand default, or a hyper-inflationary calamity, I submit to you that to me, it seems like they plan to avert societal breakdown at that scale by involving us in a world war. The chessboard is being arranged as I write, and for so long now America has been used as the pawn of the globalists . America has been doing the dirty work all around the world, in every area of conflict, always the aggressor, always controlling the resources for the benefit of the same corporate government.

        The only resource to invest in is your own food supply…
        http://www.bereadytosurvive.com shows you how. Seeds will be worth more than GOLD!

        • Mark: My security program lists your site as dangerous. If you expect anyone to check it out, you better make some adjustments …..

          that dog won’t hunt.

      61. Greetings Everyone!
        Just came back from late night shopping…..prices are def moving up…A LOT!!!still some “sale prices” out there.Only if you basically buy 10 for $10 of ANYTHING.Otherwise,I figure that REAL costs are rising about 2%/4% a month.Forget about housing(fabricated stories to lull the children to sleep)A house is meant to live in not a Roth IRS or cash station)Rents are moving faster than taxes upward.Gas prices are a product of the rigged and fraudulent “free market”(a Oxymoron is a Oxymoron no matter what the FEDS say)setup by Goldie Suckes and their UBER-RICH masters.
        Real gas prices should be about $2.00 less if you removed the “market makers”(see Goldie-Sucks above) out of the picture.China has a 20% import tariff.India has a 40% import tariff.The USA has a free trade tariff of 2%(two,that’s right TWO)import tariff.That’s what “change” is really all about.Nada,none,just more tax gifts to the rich while middle/lower blue collar American jobs are sent to the two countries named above(Ford Motor Company included).We are seeing the “crossover point” as we speak.The UBER-RICH control the courts top to bottom.The UBER-RICH(top 5% of the richest people in the country)have their paid lackeys in State,Federal and some local governments as well,and these make CERTAIN that no taxes are increased,no money paid out except to their “private corporations” to do things needed at excessive cost to the rest of us.They’ll let thing fall apart just enough to kill off the bottom 40% of the country while living “high and very mighty” with the finest of everything and no lack of necessities or hired guns to kill anyone who might intrude on their Paradise on EARTH.Of course they have no fear of being punished for their greed.They don’t dare believe GOD is watching and you can’t dig a
        “safe room” hole deep enough to escape his Judgment Day fast approaching.We will truly see quite soon what will unfold one way or another.Another Damn HOT “There’s no Climate Change” day tomorrow.
        Best Wishes to Everyone,
        Buckle your seat belts,boys and girls.
        the ride is going to get Much Rougher from here on out

      62. I have the new upgraded FireFox 5.0 and it allowed me on to his site no problem?

        • Ditto… AVG + Chrome from here says it’s okay.

      63. When thunder thighs and nutless eric holder sends the helmets in blue to get your guns, let us know how that works out. How many dollars has she given to the Palestinians? What terrorist organization controls and runs Palestine?

      64. Was that you at the Coney Island hotdog eating contest JJ?

      65. From Washington’s Blog: http://georgewashington2.blogspot.com/

        Independence Day

        One of my hobbies is music and songwriting. I wrote this last year for Independence Day.

        (See below for notes on the music.)

        The king’s men
        Have betrayed us
        Tricked us out of
        Our homes

        No one else
        Gonna save us
        We must stand up
        On our own

        We’ve been conquered
        For too long
        We’ve played their game

        We’d be invincible
        So rise up
        And shake off our chains

        We’ve been fooled
        By the banker
        The sheriff
        And the priest

        We’ve been ruled
        By the con man
        The scoundrel
        And the thief

        We’ve been conquered
        For too long
        We’ve played their game

        We’d be invincible
        So rise up
        And shake off our chains

        The power
        Streaming out
        Through our souls [Note: if you’re an atheist, think of it as our source of courage, or just change the last word to “soles”]

        The hour
        Come together
        And let’s roll

        Here we are
        In the meadow
        It is time to

        From afar
        The army’s nearing
        Are we slaves or
        Will we fight?

        We’ve been conquered
        For too long
        We’ve played their game

        We’d be invincible
        So rise up
        And shake off our chains

        The power
        Streaming out
        Through our souls

        The hour
        Come together
        And let’s roll

        Notes on the music: The drums are similar to U2’s “Bloody Sunday”, the guitar similar to U2 in some parts and the main riff from Little Steven’s “Freedom” in other parts, and there are elements of Simple Minds’ “Sanctify Yourself” or “Don’t You Forget About Me” and – I know, I know – Led Zeppelin’s “Whole Lotta Love”.
        Words and music Copyright © 2010-2011 George Washington.

      66. this story illustrates why it’s important to protect yourself. Make your home a truly son of a bitch, pain in the ass, problem to deal with. Get a dog, but only if you can truly care for it, and raise it with love and attention. Get a gun and training. Good neighbors and friends/family are wonderful. Take care and I hope nothing like this ever happens to you or anyone else, for that matter.


      67. came across this thought ya’ll might wanna check it out.

        The Potential Assassination of Obama

        What would you say if I told you a theory of mine about a potential assassination of Obama in order to cause a major uproar, martial law and control over the U.S. forcing the Wall Street government/Bilderberg group/Trilateral group/The Illuminati and all the other dirty dozen members to gain an excuse to have full control over America and another war to be fought. The main goal of the military as stated before 9/11 was to buildup its power enough to fight a war on TWO fronts. Middle East is one. Where is the other? China? North Korea? Stop and think for a second. Obama is hailed as this great speaker of hope out of nowhere but turns out to lie about everything. He is casted as a puppet for the Bilderberg group. He never uses the race card for political gain nor did he do or need to when running for president. However, after a series of pitfalls designed to make him look bad, the world blames him for all of their problems rather than the Bilderberg group and the dirty dozen who controls him. He hires the same people who caused the problem to fix the problem, making his administration filled with power hungry Wall Street thugs. The Bilderberg group and the dirty dozen makes sure that no one is running against him for re-election, knowing that being done, voters will have no choice but to elect him again or he will basically be forced on us to be re-elected. Why? Because they need him for game change. The Bilderberg group and the dirty dozen want everyone to hate this president so much that they will stir up hatred among the masses. (Bad immigration policies, giving economic aid to the Middle East instead of the U.S., mysterious Noble Peace Prize and doing nothing for it, (possibly make him look good if he dies a martyr though), BP Oil spill crisis, Obamacare.) In doing so, that’s when they will strike the race card on everyone when there is nothing left. When the time is right, they (members of the Bilderberg Group) setup a plot to assassinate him like Martin Luther King Jr. and Malcolm X and making him look like he was assassinated publish lies about him in the media for us to believe. In doing so, they will conjure up lies in the media and cause domestic violence of racial hatred that has never been seen since before the civil war, flooding our country into martial law and into another civil war. Right now, they have been playing this game of killing Bin Laden and not showing anything to stir up more Muslim hatred, knowing that it will be a perfect excuse to cause an attack on the U.S. and blame the Muslims for the attack, and further escalating another war and increase our military abroad.

        FEMA camps and underground bunkers are already setup everywhere just waiting for the moment of martial law to happen and 2012 is the endgame. They know that we will have been so bothered with our own economic state that they will make us believe that our defenses are down and make the attack, thus making us re-think the war. It’s what happened during 9/11. They needed a big crisis to start it and now that most people are smart, they need an even bigger crisis like this to keep it going past the tipping point. Why do you think there have been 3 planes mysteriously entering restricted airspace near Obama and had been escorted away to another airport and no proof or names of those individuals flying the plane were released. Why the secrecy? If that was anyone else, they would have their life story on the news, but this happened THREE TIMES and nothing. The next one that mysteriously enters restricted airspace could or probably will be used to assassinate Obama and we will never see his body (in which case, he may try and fake his own death and hide in order to justify the need for the Illuminati’s continuation of the war and possibly appear again in public at a later time. Possibly all far-fetched, but who knows what can happen from the world’s greatest trickster.) and it will be blamed by Al Qaieda terrorist for retribution of supposively killing Osama Bin Laden (which they never showed his proof of death, either) in order to continue the war on terror. The new debt level will be put into place after finding out that we must keep the war going and anyone who thinks otherwise will be branded a terrorist under the Patriot Act and put into concentration camps OR the new debt level will not happen and the country will go into default and people will be rioting everywhere and another civil war will break out in the U.S. and making Obama look like a martyr like Martin Luther King and thus causing racial and ethnic riots EVERYWHERE!!! (Hence the Mexicans, Indians from India (non-native American Indians), and Chinese stealing our jobs overseas and in the Southern areas of the U.S. over the past decade.) With either outcome, this will help the New World Order expedite and facilitate their creation of a “NORTH AMERICAN UNION” after it is all over.

        The reason why there is no one to run against Obama is because of this. Knowing this, there is no need for anyone to trust our government anymore so they just put in whoever they want. As for Ron Paul, they don’t care about him right now because he will be obsolete after all of this happens and therefore unlike Ross Perot, there will be no need to threaten his life if his campaign comes close to winning. I feel we, the people, must do something to take out the Bilderberg, Trilateral group, the Illuminati and the dirty dozen. If we don’t, this world will go into full anarchy and nothing can stop them.
        I pray that this won’t happen but if it does, you know this is how it might happen.

        • If Obama is assassinated then Hillery can run on the coatails of a martyred President and look like a moderate to the sheeple.

      68. Clark: Couldn’t respond at the your post, but let me respond here:

        “Who pushes the mercantilist bent?”

        In 21st century post industrial America, I push for the DEFENSE of OUR markets and economic power and make no apology for that! Free markets do not exist. NAFTA is not a free market. It is a managed market. Unfortunately it is being managed to the demise of the American Middle Class, worker, taxpayer, and family.

        ” Who consistently claims the Ben Bernake knows what he’s doing?”

        Uncle Ben knows EXACTLY what he is doing. And what he is doing to US. I didn’t say that I agreed with what he is doing. I simple pointed out that no one here should believe he is incompetent and the problems with the economy are accidental. He knows EXACTLY what the effect of his policies will be on the American economy.

        “Who claims the goberment is full of smart People?”

        I claim that the government is full of smart people who are highly educated and who know EXACTLY what they are doing to US. They are not incompetent. That is what makes them so dangerous to OUR economy and to OUR liberties.

        “Who claims inflation, “is nothing’?”

        Where is the hyper inflation that YOU have been railing about? Inflation is nothing for those who have assets and know how to benefit from it. Unfortunately for YOU, you do not have any assets and you do not have the education to benefit from rising asset prices.

        “It sure the heck isn’t me pushing the NWO theme”.

        “Free Trade” is the mantra of the NWO articulated by none other than George HW Bush himself, and his NWO agenda. You push “Free Trade”. Do you deny that? Therefore you push the NWO agenda.

        You have exposed yourself once again as someone who knows nothing about economics, business, finance, or real estate.

        Go to school in the Fall. Get a real education from a real university. If the ILLEGALs can afford it, you can. You will be better informed and better off financially in the long run.

        • All those things you claim to support above and all the snotty ways you try to put People down are exactly the goals and ideas pushed by the Power Elite, it’s what they want People to think,… knowingly or not, you’re their puppet.

          Your Keynesian-ish mercantilist mind appears to refuse to grasp the fundamentals of liberty, the true meaning of free trade, and the dangers of inflation.

          Not only that, your merchantilist ways are precisely what brought us all to the point we are at today, and yet you say to push forward with more of the same methods? Psft.

          Why you continue to cling to the textbooks of those who failed to foresee the financial crash or the housing bubble and so many other disasters… it’s something one would expect from an establishment Person.

          Other People might decide to learn by using other methods, for instance, the internet:

          Dr. Joseph Salerno Explains Everything You Ever Wanted to Know About Money (But Were Afraid to Ask)

          “I am especially gratified that students, business and finance professionals, a few maverick journalists and media commentators, and just plain ordinary people who have real careers and jobs in the private sector have been the ones in the vanguard of this resurgence of interest in free market ideas in general and in Austrian economics in particular. It has been this sea change in “public opinion” that has compelled establishment pundits and intellectuals and even mainstream economists to confront Austrian arguments against the Fed and fiat money and to try to engage the Austrian theory of the business cycle.”


      69. Clark: Another quote and link to LOU Rockwall!!! Just what I need. Do you get paid per click? is that it? 🙂

        Clark I only put YOU down because you have attacked me repeatedly yet have no qualifications, no credibility and cannot structure a thought of any significance on your own about economics, banking, finance, or real estate without cutting and posting a quote from someone else. You deserve having your ass handed to you on a silver platter.

        You persist in promoting a 17th century PHILOSOPHY that has never existed. Doesn’t exist now, and never will. Moreover that PHILOSOPHY is the PHILOSOPHY of the NWO so they can rape and pillage America as I have shown you. I will fight them to my dying breath.

        If you want to think outside the box you need to understand what the box is and what it contains. Once you understand that, you can fill in the blanks and apply some critical thinking to events and reality.

        Without a knowledge of the basic premises upon which these disciplines are founded, you cannot hope to win an argument. Your ignorance will be revealed every time. Ignorance is not a character flaw, unless you persist in defending it in the face of the facts.

        The financial rape of America by the NWO gangster banksters is a fact and is evidenced by the economy we live in. That you do not know the basic premises underlying economics, banking, finance, and real estate is not my problem. Its yours so don’t whine about me putting you down. You deserve it.

        You should be in B school not posting about things you do not understand. My kicking your ass on these things could be the best thing that ever happened to you if you use that ass kicking to motivate yourself and make something special out of yourself. That won’t happen with a web bot.

        You do not like the military (of which you also know nothing about) but you could use the GI Bill to better yourself as millions of American young men, and women now, have done. I did. I was willing to risk my life in Viet Nam so I could get the education I wanted. I am satisfied with the outcome.

        How bad do YOU want yours?

        • Give it a rest Clark. I like getting screwed. How about you?

      70. Here’s an example of how closely the comments from DK mirrors the PHILOSOPHY of the NWO. Note: the term “capitalism” below is more akin to the warmongering Mercantilism DK embraces:

        The Rape of Austerity

        “A Dominant Social Theme is a belief system (usually concerning a purported social or natural problem) launched by the monetary elite that grows into an archetype or meme, usually after much repetition…

        Dominant Social Themes often are launched from the centers of the power elite’s global architecture, including the United Nations, World Bank, World Trade Organization and World Health Organization, where the related problems are declared to be such. The themes are then rebroadcast by the mainstream media.

        The hallmarks of a problem that drives a dominant social theme are:

        • The problem is presented as one that can be solved only by those in authority.

        • The prescribed solution requires action by, and greater authority for, social and political institutions that are distant from the societies they pretend to benefit.

        • Reminders of the problem persist no matter how much evidence appears that the problem is fictitious, trivial or irremediable.

        • The problem may co-exist in the public’s mind with other purported problems with which it is inconsistent.

        The United Nations is an example of an authority-based solution to a problem proposed by a Dominant Social Theme. The problem is international conflict, including war. The solution is for national governments to be made subject to a worldwide authority…

        Other examples of problems that support Dominant Social Themes are:…

        Peak oil: Belief that oil supplies are on the verge of exhaustion justifies rising oil prices, for the benefit of producers, and provides a rationale for energy-efficiency regulations (to the benefit of certain manufacturers) and for subsidies for companies involved with “alternative energy” (biodiesel, solar, wind power and others). It also supports the promotion of public companies associated with energy alternatives.

        Central banking: The idea that depressions are caused by free markets…

        … We have often suggested that the 20th century was a kind of Dreamtime when Anglosphere elite control was at its highest point and people accepted most of the power elite’s dominant social themes. But in the 21st century many of these memes have begun to unravel thanks to the Internet, while others are predictably proving to be unsustainable. The idea that Western state capitalism and “investing” could provide a comfortable retirement is one such meme.

        As the reality of Dreamtime sinks in, thanks to the collapsing economies of the West and the additional truth-telling of the Internet Reformation era, the massive American and European middle classes are growing increasingly upset. The elites have counterattacked with the usual tools of authoritarianism and war.

        Such antidotes will only exacerbate tension and expand the chaos that the elites wish to impose in order to create increased global governance. We shall see, as the Internet Reformation expands, how successful they shall be. The 21st century is not the 20th and the Internet Reformation is a process not an episode…

        …The Anglosphere elites promoted Western regulatory democracy as the antidote to Depression. This meme has been exposed for what it is: a hollow promise that has little meaning…

        …The elites continue to pound home the same message regarding “investing” and “capitalism.” But we see it is becoming increasingly hard to sustain…

        …What is going on now is that the Dreamtime the elites were able to create in the 20th century has become exposed for what it is. People no longer believe that investing in the stock market will make them wealthy. It is seen more as a confiscatory situation more ammenable to enriching a few than a promising one for the many…”


      71. Clark: Instead of cutting and pasting these quotes why don’t you explain it all to US in your own words? 🙂

        Did it take you two days to find this BS? 🙂 Its totally irrelevant to OUR conversation. And it doesn’t define my opinions at all. That you continue to belabor an argument which you have no chance of winning only shows your ignorance. I don’t think you are going to find any converts here for your muddled thinking, and support of Free Trade. Folks here understand what Free Trade has done to them and to America.

        Lets keep it simple stupid:

        Fact: YOU push “FREE TRADE”. Do you deny this?

        Fact: “Free Trade” is the mantra of the Globalist Gangster Banksters and the political and financial elite who have raped the American treasury and economy. Do you deny this?

        Fact: “Free Trade” is neither free nor fair. Do you deny this?

        Fact: Free trade has destroyed the American economy, moved the American means of production offshore and taken OUR jobs with it. Do you deny this?

        Fact: The economies of the West are collapsing because the bankster gangsters under the banner of “Free Trade” have used American and European depositor and pension funds to build factories offshore and transfer American and European jobs to India and China where labor is exploited for 40 cents an hour. Do you deny this?

        Fact: Everyone here knows that but YOU.

        Get a clue, dumbshit. And answer the questions while you are at it. I love it when you expose your ignorance, keep talking.

        And use your own words for a change Clark, this idea of yours that WE should follow your links and debate a third party that is not present on the forum is asinine.

        Thanks! 🙂

      72. Nothing in life is fair,… not ever, sometimes it only seems that way.

        DK, you confuse managed trade with free trade.
        You confuse free trade with mercantilism.
        You do Not understand what the term, “free trade” means.

        The economies of the West Are Not collapsing because [of] the bankster gangsters, but because of The Power Elite who control the banksters, all under the banner of “Free Trade”… and that is just it, it is Only a banner, a lie, a deception,… it is Not “free trade” instead it is mercantilism,… something you support(!) perhaps it is because of your establishment education? You are either being misled, or purposely being misleading?


        “You demand privilege for a few, whereas I demand liberty for all.” – Frédéric Bastiat

        “…it is not true that, just because guys with guns can’t order peaceful people around, we have no common ends in a free market. In the market economy we cater to each other’s needs. We fit ourselves into that place in the division of labor where our abilities best serve the most urgent needs of our fellow men. Without any commissar having to dictate what to produce, in what quantities, and in what location, we devise structures of production in which labor, capital, and nature-given factors proceed through a series of stages until the finished consumer good is finally reached. It is an astonishing phenomenon, entirely missed by critics.”


        • Clark: The Gangster Banksters ARE the power elite. Follow the money. Politicians only do the bidding of the power elite. Another BASIC misunderstanding on your part.

          YOU can call it anything YOU like. You can call it protectionism or mercantilism, I don’t care. In a world where WMD can deliver the total destruction of a nation, the American nation, in a matter of minutes OUR government spends a trillion dollars a year to defend US from attack.

          Yet they open OUR markets and OUR borders to anyone and everyone to the physical and financial detriment of the citizens of this country whom they have a moral, ethical, and legal responsibility to protect.

          That moral, ethical, and legal protection extends to OUR economic power which supports that Miliatry Industrial Complex; thus they have a moral, ethical, and legal responsibilty to defend OUR borders and OUR markets from unfair competition.

          As for life being unfair, no one will understand that more than you because as long as “Free Trade” is the law of the land, your generation will be sucking hind tit and living in a third world nation. What is transpiring now is just the beginning. Unless these policies are reversed and soon, YOUR America will be the pits.

          I got mine.

      73. “A free market is one untrammeled by the state. Some maintain that a free-market includes state control to enforce contracts, property rights, and to provide military protection, but others would maintain that even these areas are best left to the market itself, to be resolved through negotiation between those directly involved.

        A free-market is surely an unregulated one in which those who participate do so without state coercion and rely on enlightened self-interest to create the transaction. In a regulated society, those involved with the state simply assume that the state itself has an affirmative obligation to compensate for market failures. Strangely, these market failures tend to expand over time with those responsible for legislation finding more and more market failures as the state evolves. In a free-market system there are no, or very few, market failures.

        A free-market system relies on market inputs themselves to create a transactional environment that is conducive to proper functioning. The main purpose of such an environment is price discovery. The freer the market, the less trammeled by the force of state regulatory functions, the more accurate the price discovery is likely to be. While there is in actuality no such thing as a “perfect” market, one could argue that every market is in a sense perfect because it contains all the information available at a given time to the parties involved.

        We can see from this description that a market is (theoretically) always perfect (the result of at least two parties meeting together to perform a transaction) but such markets are never “fair” nor can they be. One party may surely have an informational advantage over the other, even if it is only slight. The advantage of such a market however is that both parties are entering into the transaction voluntarily. Thus, they are far more apt to live with the result than in a situation where coercion is part of the process or where one party or the other feels protected by certain statist stipulations (regulations), which later prove ineffective.

        There is no reason why a free-market system of transactions could not take the place of the current regulatory democracy. There is nothing theoretically that the free market cannot do with equivalent competence to a regulated market. In fact, free-market proponents would argue that since regulatory democracies have in large part dispensed with the Invisible Hand of competition, regulated markets are inevitably less efficient than private markets.

        There is no doubt that markets were less constrained 100 or 200 years ago than they are now. There is no doubt that even despite technological advances the current economic and monetary system is not working very well. It will be replaced sooner or later and hopefully by an environment that is more – not less – sympathetic to free markets and their efficient results.”


        DK said, “Did it take you two days to find this BS?”

        No, it took me five minutes, and it’s Not BS, it’s truth, something you seem to refuse to seek or inquire about.

        What’s wrong with you, don’t you know how to surf the Internet and find truth? Are you so hardened against truth that you fail to investigate anything that isn’t in an establishment textbook, while shutting out the rest of the world?

        I’m beginning to think you’re a “clover” too, or maybe a bot? Same thing I guess.

        DK said, “this idea of yours that WE should follow your links and debate a third party that is not present on the forum is asinine.”

        Uh, yeah, right,… it’s called backing up what you say, but if you don’t want to do it, you don’t have to,… ignore the rest of the world at your own peril.

        • Clark: The “Free Trade” you are defining doesn’t exist. It never has. It never will. Like communism, another archaic PHILOSOPHY that preached one thing but manifested as another, your “Free Trade” is an idea, not reality.

          The Mises Institute is not gospel and Free Trade is not salvation. You can post your daddy’s website all you like but I doubt that you will make any converts here.

      74. If you are sincere in your “patriotism” that is, “The true patriot is motivated by a sense of responsibility and out of self-interest for himself, his family, and the future of his country to resist government abuse of power. He rejects the notion that patriotism means obedience to the state… it is dissent from government policies that defines the true patriot and champion of liberty.”


        then you owe it to yourself to read and consider the links I posted, otherwise you’re just a “clover” a.k.a. a tool, a.k.a. a useful dupe, as select Russians would say.

        • Clark: Lou Rockwall is a shill for the NWO. Free Trade and Free Markets do not exist. They never have. His definition is an IDEA copied from Mises, who is just another dead economic philosopher like Keynes. If you want to argue theory I suggest you go to a university and debate the professors there. Its a waste of time.

          People on this site live in reality. I do not need to recite the economic reality WE live in. That is plain enough.The reality is that the NWO Power Elites (read Gangster Banksters) have created a system that benefits them and the Uber Rich at the expense of everyone else in America.

          I am concerned about reality. The reality is that the FREE TRADE of George HW Bush and the Gangster Banksters have transferred the American means of production offshore,and spent the nation into oblivion to pay for wars of unfettered capitalism: all in the name of “Free Trade”.

          It’s an idea. A philosophy. A euphanism for the rape of the American taxpayer and economy.

          They have transferred 42,400 factories to China and India during the Bush jr administration. They have transferred tens of millions of jobs offshore and trillions of dollars in REAL GDP that will never circulate in the American economy agin, unless these policies are reversed.

          This is the abuse of power you speak of: the power that their wealth gives them to manage the lame stream media, manipulate the laws, and deceive the masses with doublespeak: making the sheeple believe that “Free Trade” is equivilant to a freedom. Its not. Its an abortion.

          That money gives them the power to deceive the sheeple into believing that when the president says he is going to increase exports 20% a year for the next five years, that there will be jobs and prosperity; when in fact what he means is that the dollar has to depreciate by inflation at a similar rate, destroying the quality of life in America so that we can compete with China where its workforce make 40 cents an hour.

          Give it up Clark. You may want to believe that Free Trade exists, but you probably still believe in Santa Claus. There is no Free Lunch. And no one here is buying it.

      75. This was a good summary:

        “The problem with the US over the last 40 or 50 years is that there’s too much free money…

        We raise three generations of population who are untied from the basics of monetary education – millions of minds poisoned by Economics 101 in universities across the land. “Elastic currency,” courtesy of the Fed.

        Media & political classes are no smarter than the dummies who walk the land, so they make policy based on “free” money from the Fed… Deficits don’t matter.

        Currency circulates and inflates the general price levels… People learn to live with it. Even make a virtue of it, doing things like “buy as much house as you can afford; the market will rise and you’ll make money.” That kind of idiocy…

        A 94-year-old retired Army colonel came over to our house for the 4th of July festivities. A Silver Star winner in WWII, veteran of the Korean War too…we asked what he thought of the Pentagon’s strategy in North Africa and the Middle East.

        “I am disgusted,” he replied. “Those guys just don’t know what they’re doing. We have no business getting involved in these things…especially in Libya. They’re just traps…

        Who – with the exception of a 94-year-old veteran – objects to squandering the national treasure, blood and honor on these wars? Almost no one. Why not? Because they’ve all drunk deeply from the intoxicating cup of imperial power. An ordinary nation fights wars to protect itself. An empire fights wars because that is what an empire does. And it continues fighting until it finally beats itself…”


      76. Clark: Yet another link for LOU Rockwall? Have you NO SHAME ? 🙂

        There is no “free Money” Clark. There is no Free Lunch. There is easy monetary policy, but there is no free money.

        Your Army Col is a fool. He thinks they do not know what they are doing in the Middle East and Lybia. Clark listen carefully because you obviously didn’t take my previous posts to heart and while you are at it, read SHTF America, “Trump Doesn’t Get It”. Maybe that will help you understand how the world works, because honestly, Clark you don’t have a clue.


        The people in power. The people who control the people in the Pentagon, the political and financial elites: KNOW EXACTLY what they are doing and why the are doing it. they also know what it does to US but they don’t care. Its all about them

        The strategy is not to win. There is no “free money” in winning for the military industrial complex. There is only LOTS of money as long as they continue to play the game. Its a game to these people because they are cowards. They will send others to war but they will not go themselves.

        To understand Libya I suggest that you read; “NWO; Partion Lybia!” at SHTF Times. Then you will understand the strategy there.


      77. DK, it’s truly amazing that you still don’t understand that what you call “free trade” is actually mercantilism. You really should read my links to escape your ignorance.

        It’s doubly amazing that you think real free trade does not exist, it happens all the time and I’ve provided a number of examples, People do it every day on a personal level.

        It’s even funnier that you would say I think there’s such a thing as “free money” what hat did you pull that rabbit out of? I never said or implied any such thing.

        When you say you know more than a 94 year old man and call him a fool you reveal much about yourself, it’s no wonder that you denigrate lewrockwell.com and by doing so step on the idea of liberty and freedom, but then, you never read anything on that website so how could you know anything about it? As a result you just blow hot air.

        You seem to be in favor of the Wolf State, you are endlessly braying that, “The state is the answer to our problems and the cradle of our dreams of freedom.” http://thedailybell.com/2676/Conspiracys-Longer-Timeline

        Please grow up and act and think like an adult, maybe if you do the rest of your generation will too?

      78. I like what you guys are up also. Such intelligent work and reporting! Keep up the excellent works guys I have incorporated you guys to my blogroll. I think it’ll improve the value of my website 🙂

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