As smart grid metering systems expand across the developed world, many are starting to ask whether the threats posed by the new devices, which officials promise will save energy and reduce end user utility costs, outweigh their benefits. In addition to documented health concerns resulting from radiation emissions and no cost savings being apparent, opponents of the technology argue that smart meters are violative of basic privacy rights and give the government yet another digital node of unfettered access to monitor and control personal electricity consumption.
Now, an alarming new documentary suggests that security problems with the inter-connected and seemingly convenient smart grid may be so serious that they could lead to a catastrophic failure of our nation’s entire power infrastructure.
In an interview for the upcoming documentary titled Take Back Your Power, Cyber defense expert David Chalk warns that our nation is in crisis. Not only are our smart power grids susceptible to hacking, but they may very well already be infected with Trojan viruses and back doors that will ultimately lead to disastrous consequences:
(Video interview follows excerpts)
The front door is open, and there is no lock to be had.
There is not a power meter or device on the grid that is protected from hacking, if not already infected with some sort of Trojan horse than can cause it to be shut down, damaged or completely annihilated.
We can’t take a massive outage all at once.
When we say ‘it goes down,’ we’re talking about generators burning out. We’re talking about coal plants being damaged. We’re talking about destruction of equipment. This isn’t just a matter of electrons going around and shutting off the moving data.
Physical equipment can be damaged… watch some of the videos of cyber attacks on generators and other devices. You’ll see they’re actually damaged. Multi million dollar machines are hacked into.
We look at corporations. We look at the very companies like Symantec that are there to protect us having been hacked, and their code is in the public domain.
…
Bring forward a technology and I will show you that it’s penetrable. I’ll do it on national TV, I’ll do it anywhere… I can guarantee you 100% that there is nothing out there today – nothing – that can’t be penetrated.
We need safety and security, and today that does not exist in the smart grid.
—
Via Business Wire
“Unless we wake up and realize what we’re doing, there is 100% certainty of total catastrophic failure of the entire power infrastructure within 3 years,” said Chalk.
“This could actually be worse than a nuclear war, because it would happen everywhere. How governments and utilities are blindly merging the power grid with the Internet, and effectively without any protection, is insanity at its finest.”
Preview Take Back Your Power:
As Mr. Chalk points out, even the top security firms in the country have been hacked, and the head of US Cyber Security confirms that military systems are under constant attack and have been broken by hackers who have gained access to sensitive military and space agency systems (including active Jet Propulsion Labs spacecraft). Our entire drone fleet, yet another node in the ever expanding control grid, was recently compromised by a virus that was able to log access commands and passwords for high security military systems. The vulnerabilities of these systems became starkly clear when Iran’s military broke global positioning encryption and took control of a U.S. military drone over their airspace.
This is no longer about a single computer going down or file directories being accessed. Cyber conflict is moving into an entirely new realm, where rogue hackers or state-sponsored cyber operations are capable of targeting physical grid infrastructure like power, water, and oil refineries, commerce and transportation systems. According to one expert, such an attack has the potential bring down life as we know it in America in a matter of just 900 seconds.
Some would argue that we need more governance over the grid system, or stricter penalties for those who compromise it, or further yet, more monitoring and tracking so attacks can be prevented.
The other option, however, is that we take individual Americans off the traditional grid altogether by empowering them through tax credits and de-regulation, so that every one of us can have their own personal smart grid in their home, independent of intervention from government or traditional energy industry players.
Only this limited government, personal responsibility solution is capable of providing a truly impenetrable level of power grid safety and security for each and every person in the United States.
However, like all things government, the narrative seems to be to first create the problem, then move to fix it by more centralization, control and dependence. It’s a trend we see not just in our energy sector, but every aspect of our lives.
Hat tip Satori
now it’d pushed up to 3 yrs, in three yrs, it will vbe pushed up to 5 yrs.
Been hearing FINAL END of gird, banking system etc for YEARS. Gerald Celente and his ilk has been screaming THE END IS COMING THIS YEAR for YEARS. How long can the average citizen sustain this level of white knuckling preparation? Tired of it. Come up with credible information or layoff the scaremongering.
We know things are bad but the relentless false alarms have worn us out by attrition. Its no longer helpful- just apathy inducing.
Scaremongering? Look, you don’t have to take this guys word for it. Just do a little research. It turns out, you don’t even need hi tech to be able to bring down the power grid. You just need to know where the weak points are in the physical systems and attack them. Hackers may be just the latest boogeyman but the threat is real.
People who use the term scaremongering for information such as this, misunderstand the reality of the situation. We are not in control of our lives. Can you think of 1 aspect of your life that isn’t controlled or regulated in some way? I bet you can’t. There is a word for such levels of control over individuals. Its called slavery. Many people misunderstand that slavery doesn’t mean literal shackles and torture. Today’s slavery is much more effective, it tries to masquerade as freedom. As the systems of control continue to unravel the slavemasters will keep putting the squeeze on citizens. This shit can’t last. The slaves are wising up, thanks to the internet. When the slaves start to wise up, how long until they rise up? Anarchy will ensue. Scaremongering? If you ain’t scared you haven’t been paying attention.
You missed the point of the comment that you replied to.
Everyone here knows that S can HTF any time, and even things that we have absolutely no control of (such as Coronal Mass Ejections on the Sun) would cause the real TEOTWAWKI.
However, when someone claims that the end of the world is definitely coming this year, I too want to know where this info comes from.
Especially, if the person is trying to sell me something right after he scared the shit out of me, I’d be caution in believing him.
Yes, there are a lot of very real dangers out there.
Yes, the situation has been deteriorating at an alarming rate (what with the NDAA, SOPA, and such).
*NO*, all of that does NOT mean that the sky will definitely fall this year.
It can, and I believe it will, but don’t give me the hard date unless you can prove it.
I agree with both Kiko and Nunia Bidness.
“How long can the average citizen sustain this level of white knuckling preparation? Tired of it. Come up with credible information or layoff the scaremongering.”
AND
“People who use the term scaremongering for information such as this, misunderstand the reality of the situation. We are not in control of our lives. Can you think of 1 aspect of your life that isn’t controlled or regulated in some way?”
Having been raised in a Cult, my only problem with ALL information like this is dates or timelines.
Stuff IS happening and Coming.
But We Will Not Know The Date And Time.
I believe this and I am not even Religious!
We are not in control of our lives!//??? I am}} It’s very simple>>>
stupid reply. sit down and shut up if that’s the best you can do.
angrycitizen has a point here, guys…
We’ve been seeing predictions of the end of the world with definitive dates ever since the Millerites (look it up – it was in the mid 19th century).
The reason I prep and go out of my way to provide for collapse isn’t because I have any special knowledge or adhere to a belief that something’s coming at a given time. I prep because I am certain that sometime within the next decade, things will begin rolling downhill to the point where society will collapse under the weight.
I should clarify a bit… I merely have a suspicion, not a certainty.
If I’m wrong, so what? I enjoy the charms of a small town, get to know some awesome people, and sleep better at night knowing that I can handle most crises that arise. I also get to enjoy long hikes in the woods, learn some excellent bushcraft, and while the city/suburb-dwellers enjoy TV reruns, I get to enjoy things in the wilderness that few men see, and fewer still appreciate.
So yeah, call me crazy. OTOH, I do this to both hedge my bets, and at the same time enjoy the world in a way that most people can only dream about.
Proof that this is possible, apparent this week in Iran.
http://times247.com/articles/hackers-hit-key-iranian-oil-terminals
I think it is a progression that everyone goes through when we learn to look over the “tall grass”. Terrible things can and very likely will happen…at some point in the future. When you finally acclimate to this frame of mind, you begin to just prepare for the worst and live your life like you have 50 years yet.
Nobody had the absolute perspective to predict WHEN a thing will happen, only that it very easily can. Since nobody can live indefinitely in a state of white knuckle fear we need to either prepare without fear, or close the blinds and go back to zombieland.
As a Christian, I can certainly see from that perspective also that terrible times are coming, but I don’t lose a minute of sleep worrying about what I can’t control. I’ve put my trust in Jesus.
understandable Kiko
and a justified criticism
the bigger lesson is this
the system is in a state of collapse
very much like what Kunstler described in his LONG EMERGENCY
there could be a black swan type of event
ie a solar flare,cyber attack etc which will bring about a very rapid collapse
but even if these things dont happen
the system as we know it is coming down
and has been for some time now
makes plans now to begin removing yourself from it as much as you possibly can
get out of debt
become more self sufficient
realize that NEITHER political party has YOUR best interests at heart
realize the difference between your wants and your NEEDS
learn new skills
try and find like minded people
in essence
change the way you live
If you are really concerned about being taken off grid, here’s what I did a couple of months ago.
Out here where we live power is life essential. When power goes down here everything goes down. All power driven appliances, AC/cooling and WATER/wells. Power goes out we have 17 gallons of water left in the pressure tank. We have wells here. You don’t even try to live here without water, some try to haul it but that’s nuts. After enduring an abnormal amount of outages, I thought I’m going to fix this shit. I got a hold of a friend that’s a pretty bright electrician and told him what I had in mind. We upgraded the 100 amp panel to a 200 amp and added a 50 amp breaker on the bus. From the breaker we added a 220volt/50 amp wennie cord out the bottom of the panel. We then brought a 8500watt gen set around, plugged it into the wennie, flipped off the 200 amp SCE mains, fired off the gen set and flipped on the 50 amp reserve breaker and walla, we got power! Even if we lose the gen set I have a 1550gallon tank above ground that has a gravity valve. (Nothing like water in 5 gallon buckets but it’s better than nothing) I installed a meter on the well just to see what we used a month just so I know, about 750 gallons a week normal. So as I see it, in a pinch we have about 3 to 4 weeks of water. Stretching it.
I don’t know what is going to get us but it isn’t going to be a loss of power.
~Hammerun~
Ditto!!! I’ve done the same thing!
Have a 130′ well & am purchasing a deep well hand-pump….its an all “stainless steel” unit that drops over your existing well casing. See link below for info…
http://www.bisonpumps.com/hand-pumps.htm
All…excellent info. I’m getting ready to go the solar route to get water from my well up the hill to my home. I am not going to worry about getting it into my home only to our frost-free hydrant so that we can water our garden…I researched the generator route. i realize that you only need to run it once in a while, but then you use it for this…and that…my point…gasoline.
The cost and availability is already and issue.
If only the govt. would let us keep our own money be self-reliant, independant and to put all this wonderful stuff in place.
They give everyone money that they just print to bolster their “bottom line.” Big corps, politicians, foreign govts. special interest, people that don’t want to work, etc…
i guess that I don’t understand why they are trying to “eliminate” those of us who produce, just want to survive and be left the fuck alone.
Our day is coming…and there will be alot of satisfaction…”live free or die.”
“don’t go down without one helluva fight.”
Awesome post…. the sky is not falling.
Mr pizza head Gerald Celente has been screaming this bullshit for years on RT, Russia Today, which is a COMMIE station dedicated to the downfall of the USA. This is the COWARD who wanted to cash in his CDs after 9/11 and flee to Canada. Now Mr pepperoni head says don’t keep your money in a bank. This pizza head commie coward can’t predict the future let alone when his next bowel movement of pepperoni turds is due. But alas, the fuckturds on this site blindly buy his newsletter and the prep crap advertised on this site.
Thank you seeing the truth about that communist coward and his Trends Bullshit Institute. You will be voted down but a few will see the light .
Perhaps you should watch a little of RT instead of spouting Glenn Beck rhetoric. I haven’t seen anything on there dedicated to the downfall of America. Many of the programs are based in DC or NY. Try watching “Capitol Account” with Lauren Lyster or “The Keiser Report” with Max Keiser.Among the guests on these programs have been Peter Schiff, Lew Rockwell, Karl Denninger and Alex Jones.If you think these alternative news bloggers are advocating the downfall of America, perhaps you should tune back to “Jersey Shore”
I usually ignore him – I got my own reasons to prep, and most of it has to do with mathematics that anyone can figure out… if they were only to try.
The truth hurts. And not one prediction on SHTF has come to pass. NOT ONE!!!!!!
NET RANGER a typical poster here won’t even help his parents eat. He complains about their decreasing food stamps. How sad that a “ranger” will let his mother and father starve. Hey Ranger, you selfish POS, get off your big fat ass and leave your trailer and get a job and feed your parents.
Its amazing, I have been saying this for nearly a year now but I get 40 negative ratings. INCREDIBLE
you just got another one for bitching about it.
RON go fuck yourself DOOMTARD !!! DON’T be an angry DOOMER because I have been correct and DOOM won’t be happening any time soon!!!
I’ll give you a green brother. Some people can not get over past comments and just red thumb when they see a name, and then just red thumb peoples links without going and reading. I had MANY red thumbs on a link to america the beutiful by ray charles once after a misunderstood religeous or racial comment I made.
I kind wanted to do what ron did, but he beat me to the punch!!
Rich 99 and Kevin are from the other side. At least had the pleasure of a few posts before the teens took center stage for a while.
kiko: While I understand the relentless pressure of it all can be taxing; look at it this way: carbon is compressed under pressure to form diamonds.
Other precious gems are created in the same way with other minerals; but the process is similar.
Then the grind polishes them to a sparkling luster. Perceive yourself in this way. Only the strong will survive and only the strong will be prepared psychologically to assist others.
Get a little fresh air and exercise, then get back to work. There is much to do.
Engage.
Great post kiko. Surprised that you weren’t voted down.Nothing predicted on this site has come to pass. Nothing. Just like Y2k.
lol true very true I laugh at the very same thought…. “we may not know the day but we may know the season” and anybody who pays attention knows the season has arrived.
i’ll be happy if we just make it 3 yrs
if the fans has no electricity when the shit hits it do you just throw away the fan?
No, don’t throw away old fans. They will be useful instruments to jerry rig into wind turbines.
I just hope im in detroit or chicago when everything goes bad…or philly, you know that brotherly love and all…Im sure millions of obobo voters will be standing by to help out….
more likely they’ll be standing there waiting for help…
No one can tell you for sure when collapse is imminent. But we all know there are huge problems all over this country and no one is doing a dawn thing about them. Does it make since to ignore them all just because it hasn’t happened yet? Don’t kid yourself.
FIGHT THE CAUSE – NOT THE SYMPTOM
OsiXs (Revolution 2.0)
sONS OF GUnS
How come SHTF complains about jobs going to China but the site vendors sells prep materials that are mostly made in China? Why aren’t you complaining about your vendors hawking Chinese made crap? How come?
They seem to be doing this on purpose, it seems like is a set up….
Any idiot can see the facts, but theyare still are full speed ahead…… THINGS RAN FINE IN 1995 WITH NO INTERNET!!!!
After the grid goes down… the amish will be grinning, and saying “told ya so”
The Amish have been biding their time for years, and now possibly., the chickens are coming home to roost!!! 🙂
We are going to party like it’s 1899.
Sorry, had to say it. 😉
Chinese researchers publish “How to attack the U.S. Power Grid : Cascading Failure of the entire system”
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/03/21/world/asia/21grid.html
Official Chinese documentary reveals military cyber-attacks against US
“Buried in an official military documentary, a six-second clip aired on Chinese TV shows a custom-built computer program launching a cyber-attack from a compromised U.S. IP address.”
http://dailycaller.com/2011/08/22/official-chinese-documentary-reveals-military-cyber-attacks-against-us/
KyMom: I have done a little research into the Chinese grid. One cruise missile packed with thermalite centered on the Three Gorges Damn will send them back to the Ming Dynasty!
Confucious say: One missile in damn is worth two virus’ in grid.
Ah man, and I was all getting ready to party like it was 1929…
*Sigh* now I’m gonna need a new party hat…
Ah man, I was going to party like it was 1775. I think I still will!
@ TheGuy; we all might be eating our leather hats. 😉
The lion to the Zebra’s
“nothing to see here keep moving” (the far side)
/s
RED
EAGLEDOVE: Sorry to break it to you but you’re gonna party like it’s 1599. No trucks to bring food/clothes/heating oil/gasoline/you name it. If you can’t make it with your own hands and supplies, it ain’t gettin’ done.
@ Dee Jay; gave you thumbs up.. out of all seriousness, I think it will be a mixed bag of things to come when the SHTF.
Some parts of our country will prosper a little bit more than other area’s with the items you have listed, with probably very little trade amongst those area’s. 🙂
In whose lifetime?
Yours?
Your Children’s?
YOUR Grand Children’s?
Do You Have The date and Time?
oh, I believe ya’ll are very wrong….
I know that we’re gonna party like it’s 476 AD… guess why…
ED: You are right. The Amish have been biding their time for years. When the SHTF they will expand out of Indiana and Ohio and seek WORLD DOMINATION!
Because, after all, they will be the only ones who know how to do anything without electricity.
@ Durango; thumbs up;
I would guess that in the back of their modest heads, that they will inherit our short comings. “The meek shall inherit the Earth”. So, I would guess they know this.., not sure though.
WORLD DOMINATION by the Amish will come from the demise of our civilization.., then followed by a plow and a horse. 🙂
Actually, in my experience the Amish are rather humble and they do not take pleasure in the misfortune of others. They will merely shake their heads and then get back to the plowing.
Many, many people going to approach them looking for help and advice though.
My Amish neighbors are the ultimate preppers
And people with guns will wipe out Amishes like a pesticide wipes out a colony of grasshoppers.
What an ugly thing to say.
What kind of predicament will it put them in. Everybody knows that they have prepared. Will that leave them open to the “Golden Horde”?
The Amish and Mennonites are as prepared for the ‘golden horde’ as we are.
Maybe more.
Round here they like to hunt as much or more than the “English”. So, I guess , they are prepared to defend.
Not a match to AK-47s.
Sad but possibly true…
A Group to know and have a connection with if you live near.
I live over 2000 miles from an Amish Community.
But My business sells them products!
Full steam ahead…… Really…….. How many years has it taken them to get to this point????? You really wanna say full steam ahead
Prepare to be without power water food police protection if you are not prepared than you will suffer along side you family anyone that is not getting prepared for hard times to come will pay for it later prepare now
Remember, that during the recent Russian/Georgian conflict, the Rooskies were able to shut down the Georgian government computers.
Which were set up by the Americans I believe. Georgia in Caucasus liked America so much, they changed their name from “Gryujia’ to “George-a”, as in George W. Bush.
How exactly would a solar power generating system the size of Utah serve North America without using the same exact power grid system in place today? THat’s not a solution.
That is not an affordable solution; a solar grid the size of Utah. In fact it would cost roughly $80,000 per home – every home – in America. Its not feasible. Don’t tell a socailist liberal government agent that though – they’ll want to print up the money and try.
Stand alone solar power for those in good sun belt areas with ample battery back up – otherwise known was “off the grid” power would be the best thing in the world to have. Even so – you’d have to use it on direct wiring to items of need like your fridge, a pump, lights, etc. Put it through the house system and the grids like to take over.
Solar photovoltics and wind power were making gains in leaps and bounds until the GOV got involved and had to standardize everything. They would probably be much more afordable too.
I miss the years of Living off grid on the Home stead. SHTF and I lost it. I have known the End of the world as I knew it before. More than once, just for different reasons. It was personal.
Even though technology can be an awesome thing.., simplicity will always will win out if technology gives out.
Not sure if this was a true story or not, but our space crew had problems using pens in space , so our smart people tried to come up with something better. But the Russians came up with a simple solution; Eureka !!! they used a pencil.
Anybody else ever heard this story? 🙂
Eagle dove
I hadn’t heard that but if it’s not true it probably should have been….if you know what I mean. It highlights how even the simplest things are over thought these days.
Nice one
Take care
Thumbs up Burt… I heard this story years ago., but can’t remember the source.
If the astronauts initially had issues with pens, they solved them with the Fisher “Space Pen”. It’s true, the cartridge is pressurized. How do I know? I’ve got one. Great pen for the prepper/survivalist
//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_Pen
the russians….just used pencils
“Russian cosmonauts used pencils, and grease pencils on plastic slates until also adopting a space pen in 1969 with a purchase of 100 units for use on all future missions.[1] NASA programs previously used pencils (for example a 1965 order of mechanical pencils[2]) but because of the substantial dangers that broken-off pencil tips and graphite dust pose in zero gravity to electronics and the flammable nature of the wood present in pencils[2] a better solution was needed. NASA never approached Paul Fisher to develop a pen, nor did Fisher receive any government funding for the pen’s development. Fisher invented it independently, and then asked NASA to try it. After the introduction of the AG7 Space Pen, both the American and Soviet (later Russian) space agencies adopted it.”
I read that everybody wanted Russia as part of the ISS even though they were years late with their part (even after USA paid for it) because of their past record of being able cobble together fixes and keep MIR flying for so long. Those people make McGuyver look helpless because of decades of experience during the USSR days.
There’s a pretty important reason for that…
The Sovs were way behind in many areas of space technology, but they did get one thing down cold: psychology. They went out of their way to make sure that the cosmonauts were mentally put together right, and have gone way out of their way to study the shit out of extreme long-term missions.
It wasn’t until the mid 1980’s or so before NASA got off their asses and started even thinking about it.
GOOGLE “MAGNETIC GENERATORS”
can u give me some advice on the best and cheapest means of putting something to get off the grid.solar panels are out due to the cost.or is there a inexpensive seller ?
I’ve got a blog going about my learning the piano, and I’m finding it nearly impossible to use. The user interface has changed to a much worse one, and the one that was in place was worse than the one before. I may be able to do very short posts to my blog, or the way it’s been squeezing down, I may simply stop posting to it as it becomes completely impossible.
I say, use the internet to prepare for when there is no internet and look into “darknet” programs, there are people preparing for gov’t shutdown of the main internet.
But most importantly, Yes, I’ve heard the story about the Russians using a pencil where the Americans developed this fancy pressurized “space pen”. Think of low-tech solutions that are decentralized. To give something of an idea, I’m using a modern “digital piano” to learn piano on, but am setting up battery packs with solar power to charge it. And ultimately, I’m assuming some good old wooden pianos will make it through. The actual piano/harpsichord/organ/clavichord go way back in history.
I survived before there was an internet and will survive when it goes away. I survived before cell phones and will survive when they go away.
The world has been coming to an end or we were going into financial collapse every year for the last 50 years.
The only thing that ever really happened was that it keeps getting pushed out another 6 mo. or another year.
or they build in an unless this happens scenario.
Those who predict are selling newsletters for a living. They sell fear. Remember Y2K. In fact the latest (it hasn’t happened yet) event was the financial martial law and bank holiday that was coming in March or April or May or maybe it was by June of this year.
In this world, past, present and future you should be prepared to taked care of yourself no matter what event occurs. If the real EOTWAWKI hits I can pretty much guarantee there will be very few if any prepared for the emotional impact.
That hojo generator is a load of horse shit!
no m2245th, you are horseshit!
You got somethin against horses shittin?
not to mention that you are also a government troll.paid for by the taxpayers.
you wanna keep this fight up today troll? im game… bring on more of your lies and i will shoot all of them down… your lies that is.. dont get funny with me boy.
What’s wrong eeder? Did you spend that $50 for the hojo con job? Must have since you think you can get energy from nothing. Don’t you remember your highschool physics class? i.e. Lookup law of conservation. You can’t create or destroy energy. Although our fed chairman thinks you can create money out of thin air.
Now now eeder 4/20 is almost over. You better put down that pipe and come back to reality dude!
I have studied magnetic generators, and have even experimented with some small scale ones. You may be able to get one to spin on its own, but as soon as you put a load on they stop. They simply do not provide enough rotational torque. And yes I can say in all honesty they are nothing but HORSESHIT!
you know you are lying!
DOMESTIC TERRORIST
yes, the day after the people supposedly shot down SOPA, it was actually fully implemented the next day making the entire internet much more of a pain to use.which was SOPAs intent. MESSAGE TO BARACK OBAMA…if you believe in SOPA so much and dont believe in the constitution, than why dont you just implement your vile laws? why do you hide in sheeps clothing sir?
eeder, I was with you till you called him sir. Have fun and have a great weekend folks.
I believe the correct spelling is “cur.”
At least when it hits the fan their wont be power to spin the stink.
Those in Congress were informed about the vulnerability of our grid, yet choose to do NOTHING!
An aging grid (50+), the country and most states facing budget/monetary problems, and many grid parts NOT made in the US. This only adds to the problem we face.
It would take years to repair/replace the grid after a “total catastrophic failure of the entire power infrastructure.”
Considering Obama is determined to kill all sources of fuel it probably won’t matter as there will be no grid anyway.
Earth Day…
A U.S. senator and a college professor “inspired” by Lenin’s ideas, came up with the idea of the “nationwide teach in” with the purpose of tapping the “environmental concerns of the general public and infuse the student anti-war energy into the environmental cause.”
They compared humanity to “a cancer.”
The first nationwide Earth Day was held April 22, 1970, the 100th anniversary of the birth of the communist Bolshevik leader, Vladimir Lenin, founder of the Soviet Union.
“After implementing his tyrannical rule over Russia in the October Revolution, Lenin issued a Decree on Land within his first year as Communist Party chairman. The decree declared that all forests, waters and minerals were property of the state.
Lenin also issued the decree “On Hunting Seasons and the Right to Possess Hunting Weapons,” which banned hunting moose and wild goats and ended open seasons for a variety of other animals.”
“Another resolution adopted by the Soviet government titled “On the Protection of Nature, Gardens, and Parks” established zapovedniki, or human-free nature preserves.
Despite the poverty of the people under Soviet rule,
Lenin decided that it better served the national interest to place the rich natural resources of the area beyond human reach…”
Now to the present here… “restrict land ownership, American energy production and economic activity.”
(www.wnd.com/2012/04/do-you-know-why-earth-day-is-april-22/)
Direct Link…
http://www.wnd.com/2012/04/do-you-know-why-earth-day-is-april-22/
@ KY Mom. Yet another Earth day, and people are clueless about actual workable solutions to the problems of everything. To me it is all about RESOURCE CONSERVATION. I am not against hunting at all, but overuse and bagging all the animals that have the strongest genetics is asinine. I live in a state in which a harsh winter can destroy entire herds and the strogest animals must be left alone so they can repopulate the decimated herd for the following season. This means extremely limiting trophy hunting. Thinning out the sick and weak makes good sense and makes the hunting season for those that need food to live that much more productive. To me trophy hunting is like purchasing a $100,000 breeder bull and making hamburger out of him.
There are extremes on both sides of the argument about pollution and land use. One side would have you live the environment alone so all the butterflies and moths are happy, all the while people have no employment because they are not allowed to use the land. The other side would land rape everything and have people inhaling, ingesting, and walking around in a toxic soup of death with the notion of good employment. There of course has to be a balance between the two, this is what is logical. Earth Day should be more of sensible use of the planet, again resource management.
Humanity is not a cancer, again if human being also practice resource management. Some African village with an average of 8-12 offsprings in a drought stricken area is called mass suffering because people will not or cannot practice birth control. NOT SOLVING A PROBLEM IS A CANCER. There are many people that are problem solvers and they are part of a better humanity. Those of humanity, if that is what you can call them, illegally dump toxins, sell out their own country for solely profit, employ slave labour, destroy what little resources we have left are cancers, they are disease ridden vermin. I guess I am talking about the elistists as being the worst most disgusting cancerous blobs of slime that they are.
Earth day should also be recognized that the planet is only so big and unless resource conservation is always practiced the resources will run out, this is basic math. Unless the population plateaus out, there will not be enough to go around. You cannot feed and sustain 1 trillion people on a planet this size, not even 100 billion, probably not even 20 billion. People can around seeing all this open land without understanding that most land is not fertile enough to grow food. 82% of land is the United States is not arable and most other land on this planet is 90-95% not arable.
Each Earth day I see this battle go on between those that don’t want any governments to influence in the ecology of the planet and those that want to goverments to nanny the entire environment and outlaw fishing and hunting completely. Neither side wants to find a HEALTHY middle balance that protects both sides and those in between. Look at the two extremes of what happens if both sides had their way.
Let’s say there was no regulations to hunting or fishing, no limits. Your common person would throw Hawaiian fish type nets into trout streams pull out every fish and then sell the fish on the open market. Same would hold true with any game in the outdoors. Soon there would nothing for anyone else. People depending on fish and wild game to live would no longer have food for their families.
Let’s say there was total ban on hunting and fishing, leave everything alone. Again people that would depend on the wild food to live would not have food for their families. Wildlife itself in the limited spaces would starve and suffer. Predator animals would have plenty of food and breed profusely and become a severe problem for people and themselves all over the place.
This why I wish that Earth day was about using some common horse sense and not be so radical on all sides. What is wrong with someone going fishing, but being limited to 2 larger fish so those fish left can repopulate the stream or river for next season? What is wrong with someone being allowed to hunt, but being only allowed to take game that is weak and allowing the strong to repopulate the herd or flock so people the following season can hunt? What is wrong with using forests for wood and thinning the forest out so as not prone to forest fires as much? What is wrong with using the environment as long as you replant and replensih what you take, like planting seedlings, so future generations have this resource?
Earth day is yet other day to see how polarized people have become, when they should be trying to find solutions that can work for everyone and everything. I think I will watch some hockey playoffs for Earth day, or better yet do a little bit of inventory on the old prep supplies for what is coming.
Good stuff. thanks
Looks like we may have to go back in time to the 1800’s or so…
Learn to live off the land, like in the pioneer days — hunt for food and prepare it. Cook and eat by fire/candle light. Fend for ourselves the best way possible. Many can do this already but for the others it will be a shock to their system. An understatement I realize but what may happen one day in the near future.
Gee, no more TV, smart phones, internet….
And we might have to carry on an actual conversation with people, including at the dinner table. Humm, there is a bright side to this scenario if one doesn’t mind doing without today’s high tech gadgetry. Simple times… more or less.
Good news, bad news.
Bad news: The land within US borders cannot support 308 million souls using pre-modern technology. Without diesel fuel, electricity, and Anhydrous Ammonia, you can bet that mass starvation would occur… globally (the US basically feeds a huge chunk of humanity).
Good news: If you can hang on via stored goods and stay alive until the vast majority of the population does die off, then yes, agriculture is relatively easy to do w/o technology.
This topic also reminds us how vulnerable our ignored ‘infrastructures’ are.
Bridges, roads, etc.
Who has to die first for that to become big news?
Oh, don’t forget the rotting gas and water pipes.
Priorities are waaay out of order..but, hey, how ya like that new little league field?
We have one built here two years ago; not in use yet!!!!
The same is true in my area. We have a new police and fire station and the water that comes into our homes is not fit to drink. I took a gallon to a town meeting and dared the aldermen to drink it, not one taker in the crowd. Of course they all live on the side of town with the new water lines.
There are no experts, only other people with a more learned OPINION than yours. The only thing certain to happen in three years is that we will be three years older.
And, God willing, Obama & Holder will be in jail…
Loss of the power grid is the one thing I prepare for most. My off-grid retreat is designed to use very little electricity so our solar array does not have to be very big. I’m currently building a wind generator from an old treadmill motor to keep my battery bank topped while my solar panels are stored to protect them from EMP/CME until we move there permanently. The treadmill even included a flywheel on which I can mount the vanes and a pulley and belt to ramp up the RPMs.
I know. I know. This won’t save me from the hordes of people with the jacked up 4X4s necessary to reach us without hiking for miles, but a fun project nonetheless.
i know this sounds naieve, but do solar panels and their batteries, etc need to be protected from an EMP? if so, how?
Just make sure you use a battery bank using golf cart deep cycle batteries. With 3 or 4 solar panels to recharge the batteries you should be able to run a smaller freezed and sone LED and small flourescent lights. Sounds like you are having fun working out the problem Alsdo get a bicycle hook it up to a alternator and use it as both an exercycle and battery charger.
“”””The other option, however, is that we take individual Americans off the traditional grid altogether by empowering them through tax credits and de-regulation, so that every one of us can have their own personal smart grid in their home, independent of intervention from government or traditional energy industry players.””””
Of course, the corps only goal is to stop any such thing from happening.
again… GOOGLE “MAGNETIC GENERATORS” and check out the possibilities for yourselves.. or yes… you will be in the dark!goodnight!
Google BIGFOOT and see how many hits you get. A lot of people have claimed to have built a HOJO generator, but no one has been able to prove it.
government guy… it has been proven, despite your attempts to stomp it out with communist control. you are a liar and when you have to answer the bell god will remember your lies. in the meantime, why dont you get serious or go to hell! youre a bloody moron!even your name!hahaha, no shit sherlock…. we figured out youre a government guy! who steals money from hard working people for spying on us and using your evil intentions against us! great! for you… do us all a favour and GO TO HELL.
If everyone has a problem with eeder, then eeder is obviously the problem. I’m watching you from space right now.
this is not the real “eeder”
this is a troll
go away troll
how do I know this…
….no Ron Paul endorsement…
back to your momma’s basement troll
Exactly! Build one and power a 15kw generator with it and I’ll believe it too! Don’t you think if one was feasible that the inventor would be a billionaire?
I’m sure the world would not have just beat a path to his door, but a 5 lane super expressway.
he would be if you didnt stomp him out with your zionist communist hammer….
Dude, seriously? Isaac Newton calls bullshit.
Without some sort of motive force (heat, wind, mechanical), or some sort of photovoltaic or electrochemical action, you get no amperage.
Otherwise, this is the best you can hope for: http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_7Se7iswAanA/S7M_oTY5XlI/AAAAAAAALD4/JYu8tK1bsy0/s1600/snake_oil_label.jpg
Look at it from a medical point of view, which was my field. No x-rays, no lights to operate by, no way to make the tools of the O.R. sterile. No O2, no gas machines. No way to make any more drugs or syringes. No ECG’s, all of your medical records are on computer so they are gone. Hospital beds are electric, no way to cook the food for your patients. Couldn’t keep meds that need to be cold like that for long either.
We are all going to die some day, some how, (trust me I’ve seen more dead folks than I care to recall)……So do you know Jesus?
I was working in a medical clinic and we had a power failure. It had no back up generator. All the records were electronic so we couldn’t call up any old information on patients. We couldn’t do lab work or ECGs. We saw patients by flashlight. It was a great lesson on how limited medical care will be if there is massive grid failure.
Too many modern doctors allow lab work and imaging to make the diagnisis. I remember hearing how physicians could localize chest masses in the days before x-rays. A skilled clinician could figure out size, location, and other information without x-rays. I doubt many people could accomplish that now.
All jokes a side, this is a very good point. We have come a long way in the medical field and a lot of people will die from lack of care/medicines. Even minor injuries could fester into infection without proper treatment and cause death. Very scary indeed… gather as much antibiotics as one can along with other necessary items for sickness or injuries. Learn other ways to sterilize cuts or set breaks. And pray we never loose our knowledge of what we have already learned.
ON A SIDE NOTE WHAT’S GOING ON WITH THE HELIUM SHORTAGES? JUST WONDERING…
“…no way to make the tools of the O.R. sterile.
Err, did everyone forget how to make steam? C’mon, a simple pressure cooker running for one hour is all it takes to sterilize any metal instrument.
Or if out doors with no steam, hold in a fire and burn it HOT!! You can even cauterize a wound that way, it just won’t look pretty.
Gotta love those old Western movies with Clint Eastwood…
The book One Second After covers this pretty good. Great book to consider just how much we depend on modern technology.
The grid is pretty robust and it is kept in good repair.
The problem is in the individual generators that power the grid. Mostly the units themselves and the switchgear is computer controlled and is subject to hacking by whoever.
But. Power companies do have manual ways to deal with it. Even if it involves just plain bypassing the switchgear or manually engaging the contactors. It can be delt with.
A fairly recient example of this was the Northridge earthquake. The quake caused extensive damage to the grid, powergeneration facilities and switchgear. Al of Los angeles was blacked out. They still managed by unorthodoxed means to partially restore power in 2 days and almost put everyone back online by a week.This was all done before outside help could be organized and put in place. They even jury rigged 100,000 volt power lines and supported them with mobile cranes because the towers collapsed.
Then the government came in and it took years to fix everything. 😀
Im ready
Unlikely to see any actual improvement on these issues. It does not suit the requirements of both government and industry. People do not count, except as resources to be controlled and manipulated.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jnMCv237_F8
“fret for your figure,and fret for your latte,and fret for your lawsuit, and fret for your hair piece,and fret for your protac, and fret for your pilot, and fret for your contract,and fret for your car, I’TS A BULL$HIT,3 RING, CIRCUS, SIDESHOW OF FREAKS”
“THE ONLY WAY TO FIX IT IS TO FLuSH IT ALL AWAY”!!!!!!!
“F^ck L. Ron Hubbard, and f^ck all his clones”
“f^ck all these gun toting, hip gangster wannabee’s”
LEARN TO SWIM!!!!!!
TOOL ROCKS!!!!!!
This video lost me in the last 90 seconds – when the real agenda seems to have come out – they are pushing “green” solar energy.
I get the message but I believe it was with an agenda.
Why not get this really smart computer to run evrything for us. I mean everything…We could call it Skynet.
I saw a graph on zerohedge from the electric utilities and it showed the number of outages are the moving in a consistent upward curve and each each year the number of outages rises.
We may not need any attacks for the electric grid to get more iffy. I suspect businesses and Wall Street will get the most of the electricity and individuals will be cut off first.
Kinda like what Enron did to California several years ago. Nothing would surprise me now.
Easily. Get ready for electricity a few hours a day, but it will cost you more than now.
Why don’t we arrest the crooks that have forced these “smart meters” on america, execute the ring leaders(for their crimes against the us constitution), re-install all the “dumb meters” and throw all those “smart meters” in a river, with the ring leaders decapitated corpses, and live happy ever after with electricity,AC,heaters,refrigeration, and THE CONSTITUTION RESTORED!!!! Watchlist her I come!!!
I really like the way you think.
GE has a HUUUUGE gov’t contract to build these smart meters, you know, that same GE that pays no Fed Tax, and gives millions to Democrat candidates every election year….
maybe the best way to combat these types of meters..is to make them cost the company ..or make them a PITA..
fuck them up, and have them keep coming out to replace them..no , not one person folks…ALL OF US!
THIS IS THE PROBLEM TODAY…NO UNITY and no UNITY AGAINST THE BULLSHIT..so it never ends
The same GE that manufactures overseas to get cheap labor??
you mean this GE ??
http://www.campaignmoney.com/general_electric.asp
don’t you guys get it
corporations really dont care who is in office
wake the F_CK up people
geez
Yup, you’ll be in the cell next to Ted Nugent.
Hey — Ted for PREZ.!!!
He’s definitely more of a Man’s man than O’bummer!!
Just a thought….
Depends how you look at it, They say obummer is a pole smoker from way back, if that is true, obummer is ALL ABOUT man, the nugent loves women,hunting,guns, and fishing so he gets my vote for those. How about a PAUL/NUGENT ticket!!
Ahhh..pay attention..he isnt going anywhere.
already told SS to stuff it, he’s a free man and the NRA stood behind him
That’s funny AC. If I am destined to be in prison; that’s exactly where I want to be. The cell beside of Uncle Ted, so we can talk 70’s, hunting and other interesting stuff. On a more serious note; TPTB control GE and the electrical grid. I can tell you people some stories that you would swear couldn’t happen in America. I will just tell you this one. In the early 1990’s, I became partners with a man that had a franchise to market a device that is called a Peak Load Distributor. We had the franchise for two entire states and possibility of locking up California. The PLD is a small switching device that can reduce the overall peak load of electrical demand by up to 25% and therefore saving the consumer about the same. We were installing units and making $$ while the inventor/patent owner was spending most of his profit fighting the illegal schemes and dirty tactics used by the “power companies”. He/We had a legal right to sell and install units. He had three legal patents; #1 for the device itself,#2 for the technique and engineering design of the operation, and #3 an international patent. My partner was a retired VietNam Vet and a paraplegic. The patent owner was good friends with a retired US Congressman and attorney that had deep family ties to the controlling leaders of the old Confederacy. We found out later, after my partner sued the Electrical Company of our state, that those conncetions and backgrounds were the only things that kept us all from being snuffed out. We had the state utilities commission by the nards with a federal mandate and they wouldn’t even make a ruling. Two retired unexpectedly and one just quit and one had a heart attack. The utilities commission is set up and controlled by the “power companies” themselves; to make rulings in “their” favor, not the consumer. It came down to a standstill and the Governor of our state intervened with his own ruling. It went something like this: ” As Governor of this great state of &&, I herby intercede by disallowing the Commission to make a ruling on this case. Any ruling in this case may prohibit the “growth” of the utility.” If we had won; every Electric Utility provider in the USA would have had to offer,to it’s consumers, this cost saving device. The governor, after stating earlier that he would run for re-election, decided not to run again. The president of the power company soon retired and died not long afterwards of a sudden heart attack. It has been estimated by several Electical Engineering Specialists, that the overall demand and expense of electric energy could be reduced by as much as 20% nationwide, just by installing these units in most homes and businesses. Just imagine worldwide. This story, if put into a book and movie would make the Tucker Automobile story seem like peanuts in comparison. I got out, almost 10 years ago, after the “power” companies had legislation put into effect that prevented the inventor from legally buying the components he needed to build the units. Ever wonder why the solar company scams are running rampant with the current administration?
Wow don’t tread. Great post. That kind of behavior has been going on for a long time(and every day) in our(I should say their) country. What a facsist piece of trash the land of the free has been turned into.
I have PLD in my home in NC. Thanks for the history.
Hey if they shut the grid down doesn’t that mean the surveillance program is toast?
Gotta love a positive thinker
This sounds like a perfect false flag opportunity to me.
Take down the power grid….blame it on those “waskelwy terrowists”….implement martial law.
The Hegelian Dialectic in action.
http://www.crossroad.to/articles2/05/dialectic.htm
We just got an estimate for solar panels. I understand that while the installers cannot include a switch to take the system off the grid, such a switch can be installed AFTER the county has approved and signed off the installation.
What this would do would disconnect the solar system (and the house) from the entire grid and provide power that comes solely from the panels.
In the event of a failure, this would give you electricity. it wouldn’t be what you are used to, but it would be enough to keep the basics going, at least while the sun was shining. Coupled with a battery system, you could run for a long time on a basic level.
I sell solar systems, in CA and you are absolutely correct. As part of the permitted improvement we can’t offer such a switch, but you can figure out how to add one you are ahead of the game. You can get a solar system for nothing out here – I mean nothing – in the right case.
We are not allowed to have standalone systems if we are in an area where grid connection is available. So, power goes off and the solar stops working. They turn your power off…the solar stops working. In my mind this kind of wipes out the reason I want the solar in the first place.
I was so voiced I had misunderstood I spoke to several installers…and they confirmed it and they said they could not fit the switch afterwards
Take care
On what basis is that? That some electricity company can make money? The Government is in control?
These things make me furious.
Get a Polish electrician. They don`t believe much in rules and you have thousands of them in Britain. Pay him some some extra money and tell him to keep his mouth shut.
Take care
Amen Viking…A friend of a friend has several home made panels and a cheap Chinese grid tie inverter running out back of his place.He says it slows the meter down and all he did was plug it into an outlet.He said the guy also had some batteries and was set up to run without the grid.He’s not Polish but still knew how to hook it up.
Burt there are many areas like this; utility companies are getting cities, counties etc to go along with this crap. It doesn’t mean you can’t find your own way. As the previous poster noted – we can’t build an off the grid system for anyone in these areas; but it doesn’t mean once we’re done and inspectors leave you can’t install your own “switch.”
from cali also near santa cruz…
nice to know i’m not alone
…be safe….B
I live in San Diego, we need that switch to go off grid if need be. I can not find anyone to do it!! And how do you get a system for nothing??? The tax benefits are not that great….!!
Install emergency power outlets in key areas. Connect these to a seperate wiring system only for those outlets. Run lighting and some smaller low power appliances( small freezer/frig)from it. When the grid goes down you will have a basic system in place. You will need a battery bank but that is no big deal. The whole thing if you are at all talented at doing your own work should only run 1200 to 1500 dollars.
Can you send one of those next to nothing units to me here in NC? I can afford nothing and thats about it.
That would be a transfer switch. These are used in conjunction with backup generators. A transfer switch eliminates the possibility of backfeeding the grid and possibly electrocuting some lineman (and overloading and trashing your panels). Your house can be isolated by turning off the main circuit breaker, but there is always the possibility of it being turned on while your system is feeding the house and causing said backfeed.
Other than protecting utility company profits, I see no reason why one cannot be employed.
After such an event, I can see how most survivors could end up doing without luxuries like dishwashers, central (or any) A/C, heating the whole house all winter (even rooms you don’t use for most of the day). Do we really need to heat the whole house while we sleep?
Panic would be a huge killer, but the reality is that all seven billion of us cannot continue to live on Earth without the power grid. How long will NYC remain a viable home for eight million people when massive quantities of electricity are not available to run the massive infrastructure required just to provide drinking water and remove their sewage?
Think “Escape From New York” – scary back then, even more so now…
It’s not just the things you mention. The food supply chain would collapse quite rapidly and food would be gone in a week or so. Also all chill stored foods would spoil along with chill stored drugs. Gas, petrol and fuel oil would not be available. So anyone has a drug dependency would soon die or become ill. My guess is that the authorities would simply barricade major cities to keep the people in knowing they could not do anything.
When I was a child, we always shut down the kerosene heater at night during the winter. There would be ice on the windows, but we were warm under blankets and quilts. If it was going to be extremely cold, my father would turn off the water pump and drain the water lines so they couldn’t freeze.
Hey! It’s a proven fact. If one man can make it, another man can break it.
Also, here in California, customers are now able to have their Smart Meters disabled and removed and to switch back to the old-style meters.
another cali prepper UUURAH….
be safe brothers….B
Yes but there are “FEES” to be paid each and every month so that they can send someone out to read the numbers on the OLD STYLE meters. And in CA we were to be given the choice per the PUC but Edison and SDGE did not give any notification
Those things suck. they report your peak power usage whic costd several times the middle of the day rate. Guess when it starts? When people get home from work. The people driving this scam suck.
We had a Smart Meter installed by our electric company, FP&L, a few months ago.
There was no refusal option.
I’ve read of the occurrances of health issues and am aware of their possibility.
It’s about six months now and no one has noticed any ill health effects.
I know that one household isn’t a scientific study.
But no one else on the block is complaining of anything either.
FWIW.
I’m waiting on the fire sell at First Solar with the glut of PV’s and the big layoff coming. My peddle generator still works and it works me. No chips or circuits.
Anon..I like this idea of a bike generator.Can you get it to charge anything besides small batteries?
It’s not a bike gen. It is it’s own unit that you can put peddles on or hand grips. I only use it to charge gel or acid battery but I have hooked it up directly to a 12 shop light bulb and 12 volt green bulb. Guess which one is MUCH harder to light up..
MiVida
Check your solar installer carefully – a grid-tie system will go down when the grid goes down, you want an off-grid with battery backup I would think. Check Wholesale Solar 800-472-1142.
And yes, anything connected to internet is probably already compromised. Heck, half our weapons have chips made in China and now some analysts think those can be remotely turned off. Notta good. Gonna be a lot of unhappy folk when they can’t charge their iDevice and tune in to see if a Kardashian farts or faints, or order biggie fries with that in the drive-through.
Bring it on, tired of waiting, my bags of salt are getting stale
Greetings Everyone!
Empires don’t collapse all at once,TPTB just keep making the self(read in the corporations interest’s)serving,short term decisions to the detriment of the citizens as a whole.Most Empires manage to survive a few errors and FUBAR decisions and still function with some efficiency and to the general good.BUT, when they consistency serve the few to the detriment of the 98% of the rest,collapse and ruin follow.We have reached the “tipping point”.It may take take several years or even decades before it hits bottom.”The power grid” is just a symptom of the general free-fall we’re seeing.
I’m getting a solar system with a c.o.s. ASAP.The power been getting worse from our local “System” anyway.Costly?,yes,necessary?Wanna bet your health and well being on it?
Best to All
GFG
Best to all,
GFG
Three years? I don’t think we have three years. Anyway, for my wife and I, major inconvenience but not a total disaster and certainly survivable.
http://blog.alexanderhiggins.com/2012/04/19/people-protest-lapd-brutality-horrible-kiling-teenager-124221/ 120 rounds fired????WTF!!!! HEY AL UN-SHARPTON, HEY, JESSE JACKA$$ wHERE YOU AT????
Things that make Kevin say hmmm.
The powers that be make a big show out of a tragic killing in WHAT STATE?????? FLORIDA
Republican convention going on in what state????? FLORIDA
WHAT MONTH????? NOVEMBER
Zimmerman cleared of charges in???? they say “around” NOVEMBER
Riots brake out durring convention(its brokered) Enough of ron pauls delegates end up “randomly” beat and killed
Romney squeaks by, becomes repubics nominnee
Endless wars, money creation continue on
Jesse jacka$$ and al un-sharpton disapear again(the only good part of this)
MARK MY WORDS PEOPLE!!!
See and READ(my link below about the repubs 1968 convention and) about the “long hot summers”
HISTORY mirrors
Hmmm, indeed. Very interesting to see how it plays out….
Never under estimate TPTB. They know how to use situations of a crisis for their own agendas. Especially this crooked administration.
Yeah, this is getting heavy..I call BullShit on the 911 call about the “gun”..is that were so..it woulda been all over the friken TV by now
Cops just being cops..
People,,, do you see who the problem is?
before in many articles on Mac’s site the question has been asked “will they fire on us”..if this isnt proof enough of a definative YES, then I dont know what is..
Add a military type support group and you will have all out chaos..summers coming
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_presidential_election,_1968 Pay close attention to the “long hot summers”!!!
eeder, eeder, eeder
Well here you go again. I love it when you shoot off. It’s great to know that we have friends like you in Ontario, Canada.
Y’all Beware! SC off.
eeder, eeder, eeder
Well here you go again. I love it when you shoot off. It’s great to know that we have friends like you in Ontario, Canada.
Y’all Beware! Just want to give you a big hug bro!!
SC OFF
yes sir.. i am in ontario.. anyone stupid enough, or with enough guts to try and come and getme? bring it on!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_F._Kennedy What candidate was killed in 1968?? RFK!!!
Bugout plans moot?
First time commenting here. I haven’t read all comments yet, so please be kind if this repeats someone’s post.
Backup generators are not permanently sustainable if/when the electric grid goes down. Not only coal plants will be problematic, but every nuke plant out of power could go down too, sooner or later. Chernobyl and Fukushima are the current horror stories, but can you imagine hundreds (436 globally) of plants melting down simultaneously when they have no power? You can run, but you cannot hide from the effects of an irradiated, totally poisoned globe.
Fukushima – Could 85 Times More Cesium than Chernobyl be Released? http://youtu.be/Td33YHsh_WQ (Hartmann yesterday)
Nuclear power plants, world-wide: http://www.euronuclear.org/info/encyclopedia/n/nuclear-power-plant-world-wide.htm
Thank you, GE, for all of your flawed Mark 1 models. 🙁
Just sayin’. All the best…
Lily, that’s a scary scenario to think about but you are 100% correct about the nuclear power plants. And no, I personally can’t imagine that many going down. 436 you say??? Sweet Jesus, it’ll take centuries or longer to cleanse the Earth if that were to happen. Not to mention what would become of us humans and other animals/wild life. Let’s just hope that it never comes down to that.
“Sweet Jesus” will be our only hope and IS our only hope!
~Lily~
Ummmmmm…..seems like I recall that the Fukushima reactors were designed/manufactured by Westinghouse…not GE.
No, Lily’s right, GE was responsible. The same ones that don’t have to pay taxes….
I can’t wait. I’m ready to go back to the Old Ways. I’m pretty much there already.
Yet another reason in a long line, apges long now, why everyone needs to be putting away food, water, and supplies that they need to survive. Many people feel that it just won’t happen, odds say it will. It is like a giant spinning wheel, where it lands nobody knows. It doesn’t matter where it lands because those unprepared are going to bite it in ways that most cannot comprehend just how terrible. Everyone of these articles needs to be a wake up call to those that have not begun prepping. To almost everyone on this site that knows how important it is to prepare, it just solidifies their position to others around them that refuse to prepare.
when it happens does not really matter…if it actually does happen does not matter…being ready, prepared and self reliant does matter greatly.
I can still distill water without electricity
and grow food, and hunt..make ammo..
hey maybe we should start listing thingss we can do without it?
Things we can do without:
1) PHONES
2) TV — goodbye stupid reality shows!!
3) INTERNET — will miss sites like this but…
4) TEXTING — dangerous when walking any way…
5) GAME CONSOLES — will be missed the most
6) COMPUTERS — falls in line with Internet
7) BEAUTY SALONS — we will have to convert back to our natural hair color/nails…
8) GPS MAPS — must learn directions the old way
9) BANKS
10) PRESENT GOVERNMENT!!!
Please feel free to add to the list —
@ squirt. On top of your list I say people can do without ALL the modern day conveniences that have made the masses of the majority of people soft, spongy, and like the Pillsbury Doughboy. People don’t even have muscle tone anymore.
Talking about the doughboy, I say that people can do without the modern day packaged foods that are loaded with chemicals and have very little nutrition and lots of sodium and fat in them. I personally cannot stand these idiot proof boxed up meals that have the word KIT on them. They make the everyday person think that they are actually cooks because they can add a sauce package and a sprinkle of something and then pop it in the microwave or maybe the oven.
What ever happened to homecooked meals that actually had real tastes to them, not some chemical cocktail of who knows what? A suggestion to ALL preppers, get yourself a good herb book that describes what herbs go with what foods. On top of making food taste fantastic, many herbs help preserve foods. I use ground up rosemary with much, and few people know that rosemary is excellent with potatoes for example. Coriander powder is more expensive but extremely versatile with sweet foods to casseroles to stews to much more. I often add 10 or more spices and herbs to what I cook. Herbs are a mega smart prep item that is much cheaper bought at bulk stores like Sam’s Club.
Trust me everyone, herbs and spices will make a survival experience so much more bearable with foods that might not taste too good without the flavour being enhanced. A good herb and spice book explaining what to add to food is invaluable along with the many herbs and spices available. 🙂
i think that about sums it up!
@Be informed
So true about the herbs and food….
ADD TO LIST OF DOING WITHOUT:
11) McDonald’s , Burger King, Taco Bell, Wendy’s….
— learn to cook —
things we can do without
traffic lights
speeding tickets
crooked judges
parking meeters
fishing license fees
hunting license fees
trout stamps
federal taxes
state taxes
capital gain taxes
excise taxes
gasoline taxes
county taxes
walmarts
the people at walmarts
hillary clinton
kevin
you forgot lindey “war piggy” graham and john mccain!
Rap noise (I refuse to call it music)
Infomercials
Steven Tyler
we can do without propaganda, and fascism, we can do without the KY moms, the delutional bigots, the teabaggers, and the billionaires, kocksuckers.
Earth day was founded by Richard Nixon.
http://www.google.com/url?q=http://www.earthday.org/earth-day-history-movement&sa=U&ei=0gyTT8ly5-XpAfvHlL4E&ved=0CA0QFjAE&client=internal-uds-cse&usg=AFQjCNGMH5y-M3Rql2SBveq57GwXzjgpvw
About Us > Earth Day Network > Earth Day History
Earth Day: The History of A Movement
Each year, Earth Day — April 22 — marks the anniversary of what many consider the birth of the modern environmental movement in 1970.
The height of hippie and flower-child culture in the United States, 1970 brought the death of Jimi Hendrix, the last Beatles album, and Simon & Garfunkel’s “Bridge Over Troubled Water”. Protest was the order of the day, but saving the planet was not the cause. War raged in Vietnam, and students nationwide increasingly opposed it.
At the time, Americans were slurping leaded gas through massive V8 sedans. Industry belched out smoke and sludge with little fear of legal consequences or bad press. Air pollution was commonly accepted as the smell of prosperity. “Environment” was a word that appeared more often in spelling bees than on the evening news. Although mainstream America remained oblivious to environmental concerns, the stage had been set for change by the publication of Rachel Carson’s New York Times bestseller Silent Spring in 1962. The book represented a watershed moment for the modern environmental movement, selling more than 500,000 copies in 24 countries and, up until that moment, more than any other person, Ms. Carson raised public awareness and concern for living organisms, the environment and public health.
Maindawg,
We can do without your propaganda and nasty remarks too!
“Who cares Ray….”
The Electric Kool-Aid Acid Test,
by Ken Kesey
it all about control and no freedom, I dont see why people still vote liberals when they are the ones mainly doing this to us. I dont get it.. do they think they can pass laws and be safe from people who will not take it anymore/ I dont know. there used to be trust and honesty now its all about them to make money and greed most of all. our country really is sad and the more you read the worst it gets. so sick of hearing these idiots who think treyvon martin was all inocent. he didnt deserve to die but if zimmerman was getting decked over and over, then deadly force should be used and glad it did if thats the truth
The super rich will be able to hide. The merely rich and UMC who THINK they are rich will not be so fortunate. A lot of people living in UMC gated communities who think they are safe from the problems they have actually caused (and deep cown they know full well they are responsible) are in for a real shock.
Maybe TPAB are freaking that the Revolution is coming, so they are reacting by scaring the police to react touchy about every dam incident blowing them out of proportion on purpose trying like hell to get some reaction?
man I dont know..but things seem to be on a fever pitch lately
Yep! A flare… A hack… An EMP… Let it come. I’ve got 110 gallon of gas to run the pump and the fridges for a few hours a day. The rest of time we’ll just have to play cards or practice shooting, cut wood, garden. Oh, wow, it means my 13 y/o son won’t have his XBox. Maybe he can clean up his room and pick up the sticks in the yard, instead!
goodbye grid…
…dinner by candlelight…
–makes my mac n cheese look good—
_makes my imitation bacon bits look real_
All the more reason to develop “community” with fellow preppers and neighbors. Know the sustainability of you BIN or BOL, whichever applies.
For example, I live two blocks from the Pacific Ocean. Plenty of food, water, salt and sand. Totally sustainable as most coastal locations are. Plenty of woodlands for fuel…sun too.
Our dependency on the grid for our medical needs is a big concern for all.
…prepare…be safe…stay the course….B
That used to be about as close to “beachfront” property as anyone wanted. Too bad most coastal areas presently have too many nieghbors.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vIyWt16e8oo
hey he’s saving gas money and bringing his prepps home..wtf?
dam lucky he didnt get shot…
Dude, Where’s My Country (music)?
What in the world has happrned to Nashville? As a long-tiome hard core fan of country music, I am astonished. More than that, I’m pissed! Country music used to be about cheatin and drinkin and mama and huntin dogs. You know, the stuff that really matters.
And the music, while admittedly a bit chauvenustic, at least kept the men and women in the right gender roles. Now, it seems, the roles have been reversed. The C&W world has been turned upside down. And being one of those who used to be on top, and now isn’t, I don’t like it.
I enjoy all kinds of music. Except rap. I don’t consider that music, only noise. I’ve heard air ratchets in a tire shop with better rhythm. But I like all the rest. Classic rock, soul, bluegrass, pop, you name it. In fact, I’m not ashamed to admit that in the last 48 hours, I’ve heard Pink Floyd AND the Carpenters. Of course, you have to seperate those by at least 12 hours or your synapses have a head on collision and your brain explodes. Still, I like it all. Especially country.
But today, Nashville has lost it’s way. All you hear are a bunch of weepy, weak little men crying about how hurt they are. I guess they’re trying to show how sensitive they can be. And all the women are tough, overconfident, independent, and Angry!
In response to this crisis, I’ve written a few songs to get country music back on track. I won’t bore you with the lyrics, but the songs are:
Plea Bargain With Heartache- (a song about a guy who shoots his wife’s divorce lawyer)
Gun Racks In Heaven- (a moving tale of a horrible hunting accident)
Woman Shut Up And Get Me A Biscuit (a passionate song of marital discord)
3:10 To FEMA- (a patriot/resistance song set in the old west)
Leather And Linux- (song about a would-be cowboy trapped in a high tech world)
The Day Johnny Cash Whipped Barry Manilow’s Ass- (the conflict between macho C&W and overly sentimental pop music)
Bud & Miller & Daniels And Daniels & Miller & Bud- (a new ‘beer joint national anthem’, it pays tribute to buddies and beer and Roger Miller and beer and Charlie Daniels and whiskey, in no particular order)
Country With A Capital Cunt- (a song of protest against the mean agressive women of modern country music)
Until Nashville get the ship righted, I am on a personal crusade to boycott them, and all radio in fact. Until this is resolved, I will listed only to CDs. And I only have one. I hope they hurry up.
(you’re only coming through in waves, you lips move…)
S-Okie:
Music moves at the speed of technology…fast fast fast.
I am putting together a playlist for my flight to Texas tomorrow. Everything from Hank Williams Sr. to The Cars 2012 Album . Over sixty years of musical “nirvana”.
In today’s music industry, it’s all about instant access, not tradition, quality or longevity.
The sound of modern rock is best heard from the bands that created the sound, ie, Black Sabbath, Deep Purple and The Animals.
The new sound of country…got me…I relate alot of it to 1980″s Olivia Newton John, without the disco beat, or maybe The Romantics, or The Knack, without the fluid guitar licks.
The Wolf never listens to RAP, it is for the sheep, so they won’t realize that the wolf is fixin’ to bite their ass…they just don’t want to know.
The Wolf should listen to music with substance, while wearing his new Stetson…lol
Be the Wolf…Be the Reason….B
p.s. Elvis is still King
…to be the rock, and not to roll….Led Zeppelin.
…stay safe and keep bringin’ the humor…thx
p.s.s. My favorite country title is:
I gave her the ring and she gave me the finger…just sayin’
How about this song I wrote; well, I got the title part finished. “I can’t get Over you, While you’re Lying there under Him”.
Hubby ROFLHAO – has severe asthma – if he dies I will hold you personally responsible… :0
To WestVaFolks- Sorry about that. It was just an oversight. Mac usually puts one of those yellow crime scene tapes around my comments. Sort of like a disclaimer.
I don’t understand why I should worry about getting out of debt in a catastrophic economic collapse?
My way of thinking, concerning debt, is that it will be another reason or excuse, for whomever is running the show or has bought up the debt, to come looking for debtors. If you don’t have what they want or need, they may just take leins against anything and everything you own and use that to control more of your life. Just sayin’; I’d rather be debt free than to have wolves knocking at my door.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hgq4w4dqKsU
The saddest thing is how the system has been”engineered” to fail. What kind of idiots would design an open system which actually allow a commie nerd in Red China to bring down the entire power grid of their country? Only really arrogant and lazy ones I’m afraid.
And we will all suffer for it.
gun sales increasing
http://www.financialarmageddon.com/2012/04/business-is-booming.html
“Although there is no single indicator that tracks the number of firearms sold in the country, the FBI reported that a record 14.4 million criminal background checks were requested for gun purchases in 2010, and that preliminary numbers project the figure to be above 16 million for 2011.”
well at least Obama has been good for something !
Given all the calamity we are facing in the near future.
economic collapse
earthquakes
horrific weather
devastating droughts
emp attacks
solar flares
martial law
invasion by foreign troops
rogue viruses
alien invasions
fema camps
teotwawki
wrol
terrorism
cyber attacks
chemtrails
flouride
gmo’s
total grid failure
nwo
agenda 21
sopa
ndaa cispa
on and on and on..
One might conjecture.. why fret..?
Tomorrow will come..
We will all wake up and hopefully go to work..
kiss our wife and kids goodbye..
and the sun will set as always when we arrive home..
We will prepare dinner..
prepare our preps..
clean our weapons..
maybe..watch some tv ..a movie..read a book..go on the internet
and go to bed at days end..
Life will go on with or without us as it always does..
Enjoy the day..absolutely..
Embrace life..
Stay well
Stay vigilant..
over and out..
possee
excelent. Great post posse.
posseee we are or have faced all these things already….
eeder..
we have faced these already?
martial law
emp’s
alien invasion
total grid collapse
invasion by foreign troops
wrol
teotwawki
I think not…yet anyways..
Take care..
possee
fema camps?
yes to a degree and arguably we have had these or do have them… its all a matter of perception though i suppose.
eeder
Just read your comment on Daisy’s latest blog
Spot on..
possee
yes possee, and i thought he was pshychotic just becuase he is a multi billionaire who charges way too much for his microsoft crap. which i am forced to buy from time to time. but, well…. as you say, spot on!
@ possee. I have a calamity that is happening right now, on going, infecting more and more each day, and destroying any future civilization has. It is the dumbing down of people. The majority of the people have become so complacent, mentally and physically lazy, totally dependent on the services of others including machines, lacking any motivation to improve their minds and bodies, in short true couch potatoes. There is much to prove this in the lower and lower education scores and lower and lower educational demands on students to actually learn something that is constructive.
There have been many articles done on this, that people will plateau out and stagnant overly satisfied with their lives the way things are and fail to strive for better. Other than the computer jumps in technology where has there been any jumps in technolgies like what people saw at the turn of the 20th. century, or during and after World War 2? Worse yet is that the governments of the world, not just the U.S. can totally take advantage of the lack of caring of the masses and continue to introduce new control measures, gradually without anyone noticing or being concerned as long as unemployment “government” numbers say that “only” 8.2% of the people aren’t working.
I am beating a dead horse with the history repeats itself, but during past quagmires or doldrums like this throught human history, absolutely horrific events have followed. It a cycle of the lull before the storm. People let their guard down and forget just what a perlious world this is to live in, and then bang, no BOOM.
The most recent “minor” calamity was 9/11 when 19 terrorists cost the U.S. 3000 lives, the loss of much financial stability through 2 wars that have cost trillions of dollars and loss of thousands of soldiers lives and tens of thousands of injuries, and a much more fractured country. 19 terrorists that is all. This complacency is one of the worst and most contagious mental disease there is. It allows for mankind to vulnerable to all sorts of catastrophes.
Just look at how complacent people have become to prepping and getting ready. To most people the prepper or survivalist is a nut job. There are however catastrophic consequences to those that “choose” not to prepare “WHEN” something does happen. Really the true calamity right now happening to so many and growing is total complacency.
Be Informed
I couldn’t agree more with your initial statement.
There are many awakening to the tsunami approaching..but it is a small number overall..and the tsunami could be one or a combination of many I posted..
Personally..I believe the economic collapse is the most likely scenario given all the facts we have at this point,especially from those who are inside the financial game and warned of the 07/08 collapse impending and were subsequently relegated to the lunatic fringe at that point.of course they were correct..
And segue way now..many more are ringing the alarms of a massive collapse worldwide at any time..
I deal in facts..not conjectures..and the facts are mathematically /statistically correct..just a matter of when..
Unfortunately,Natgeo has capitalized on the prepper movement and their portrayal is foolish at best..
No wonder average unaware folks look upon the likes of us as fools..watching that nonsense!
possee
From the power generation standpoint plants being damaged is not true. There are interlocks that are simple local controls completely divorced from any control room function that in itself is a distributive control system divorced from the internet. Low water level, high temperatures, low oil pressure, overspeed (mechanical back up) and a host of others is simply not any more hackable then your AM/FM battery powered radio. Oil Refineries operating units are the same.
The grid might be in trouble because of the necessity of long distance communication.
Kevin is exactly correct. Most/ALL electrical power generating plants have mechanical, electro-mechanical, AND simple electrical backups. NONE of these backups are susceptible to “Die Hard” movie computer BS!
bobinsherwood
Thanks. I ran / surpervised power plants from pneumatic control, 1st generation DCS and later 3rd generation DCS. The interlocks are hard wired. The overspeed and low oil pressure are both hard wired with a mechanical back up. The breakers internally are not “smart” therefore they cannot be made dumb. The grid with extended controls from potentially hundreds of miles may be in danger from hacking but the generation end does not have that concern.
Oops supervised typo
The real Achilles’ heel is transformers. There are tens of thousands of them in service on the grid, and they can be damaged by EMP or a serious hack. The big problem being that the time to manufacture replacements in six months or more NOW, without any crisis. If only 20% of the installed base were to be put out of commission, it could be years before enough could be built to replace the damaged ones.
The Old Coach
Once those electrons went their merry way from the generating plant all bets are off regarding reliability.
Wow!! DCS’s, divorced, level switches, am/fm??? All this high tech talk and achronyms are making me get dizzy this morning(haha)!!! The only thing in my opinion that is a threat is something simular to the stuxnet virus that is introduced locally, and it then FOOLS men in the control room, and they send operators out to do the wrong things. There are many dangerous sinerios, and sabotage should be included also. I believe NOTHING is 100% secure, although there is that 99% all over the place. Great post.
kevin
Those trips are there in case operators do something stupid in many cases or for any host of mechanical / instrument failure.
“FOOLS men in the control room, and they send operators out to do the wrong things.”
Winter freezing water in pneumatic signal lines (1st step in the control loop before 4/20 Mv transducer changing signal to electronic) will show false water levels, false pressures exc. That is why operators exist. The trips are outside of the control loop either control room or field (unless you physically by-pass them hard wired or fudge each being crafty……once again a slick operator function but it must be done in the field).
We ran local control divorced from the DCS on several occasions for both maintenance and a well placed lightening strike. Things trip but are undamaged.
transducers, 4 to 20, pnematic?? There you go making me dizzy again!!! Yeah I get all that. I was making reference to situations that a stuxnet type of virus(introduted locally not over the net) could unleash in many situations and sinerios. A couple simple examples being- ambiant temperatures in sensitive rooms, flame detectors that show no fire when there is or isn’t a fire and same with gas detectors making people think there is or isn’t a leak somewhere at a critical time or place or even fire suppresion being released at the chow hall at 12:10 pm, in the control room, or in an area when a curtain local control is opened or closed. Such a virus could also have some sort of time delay/rythym. Hundreds of possibilities sending people in hundreds of circles and directions.
As for the generating part, couldn’t such a virus play havoc with the readings from the ct’s on the load side of the gen before the main step up and mess with people that way?
My biggest worry with these “smart” meters is that the chinese gubmint could have ordered the company who made them to add a kill chip in them(like I believe was put into the f-22’s cockpit oxygen program). At a curtain time in the future ALL off them could commit suicide(so to speak) all at once and shut 100 million power customers off from the juice, and since these meters are imported we would be in deep doo doo!!
Could you give me your thoughts on these senerio’s??
One generator is controlling load via frequency in a given area. That speed is a function of torque upon windings. Pure physics. The control is local not DCS. If a control room picks up load on a droop governor generator (a generator for practical purposes on manual) from the control room speed rises (frequency) and the generator controlling it cuts; pure physics. It has to cut, it’s governor is hydraulic. The manual generators (on droop) will control speed within 4% vial pure hydraulics from signal to governor movement. Assuming a hard mechanical failure causing overspeed a bolt trip set by a spring hits mechanical linkage. Zero computer input. The turbines will not self destruct even if the operators tried to destroy them. The lubrication pumps are hard wired. Battery powered lube pumps will supply sufficient oil pressure in the event of a complete power loss for coast down.
A good lightening strike can shut you down but not break anything unless it struck a specific generator. The steam turbine generating system and control has changed little at the source since it was invented and the hard wired capacity of protection has been incorporated into gas turbines. The protection is mechanically redundant.
The interlocks on the boilers are hard wired. They are not in the computer loop.
By law we must remain within physical sight and sound of the power plant equipment.
The grid has issues but not generation.
kevin
I’ll sum up with this. If every operator left the power plant and a monkey was put in the control room touching anything it wanted regardless of the order it pushed buttons the plant would not destroy itself. It would shut down but not get destroyed.
@kevin2- I asked your thoughts on these sinerios.
transducers, 4 to 20, pnematic?? There you go making me dizzy again!!! Yeah I get all that. I was making reference to situations that a stuxnet type of virus(introduted locally not over the net) could unleash in many situations and sinerios. A couple simple examples being- ambiant temperatures in sensitive rooms, flame detectors that show no fire when there is or isn’t a fire and same with gas detectors making people think there is or isn’t a leak somewhere at a critical time or place or even fire suppresion being released at the chow hall at 12:10 pm, in the control room, or in an area when a curtain local control is opened or closed. Such a virus could also have some sort of time delay/rythym. Hundreds of possibilities sending people in hundreds of circles and directions.
As for the generating part, couldn’t such a virus play havoc with the readings from the ct’s on the load side of the gen before the main step up and mess with people that way?
My biggest worry with these “smart” meters is that the chinese gubmint could have ordered the company who made them to add a kill chip in them(like I believe was put into the f-22′s cockpit oxygen program). At a curtain time in the future ALL off them could commit suicide(so to speak) all at once and shut 100 million power customers off from the juice, and since these meters are imported we would be in deep doo doo!!
Kev- dont take this the wrong way, but I asked you YOUR thoughts on ABOVE sinerios, with a STUXNET type virus(effecting controllers, and plant operations)
Where in any statement did I mention anything about power generation????? (except how a STUXNET type virus could manipulate the signal from ct’s on the load side BEFORE the step up out to the grid, and I asked HOW it could “MESS” with people and the plant)
EXAMPLE-
Say in a compressor station(natural gas or whatever, who cares what or where the example is), a stuxnet type virus was introduced and and there is a h2s leak somewhere, but the virus BLOCKS the alarm, and monkeys walk into the area??? What would happen?? Monkey dies!!!!
Say an old plant has an older fire suppression co2 based or something, and all the monkeys are sitting in the computer room(eating bannanas doing their thing) and a stuxnet virus type deal was introduced and the computer(from effected cards in a FPP) tells the suppression to suppress a non-existant fire? Monkeys die!!
What about a kill chip in the “smart” meters imported from our “friends” the chinese???? Whatcha THINK???
What about a fire that is raging(sabotage or what ever, during night crew) and a virus tells the computer not to raise the alarms?? More dead monkeys. I have worked burnouts so I have seen the devistation that CAN happen from a fire during the night crew thing.
Just want your thoughts on sinerios like that.
The only one that is really on topic is the smart meter thing.
I kinda wish we had monkeys(instead of power junkies) running the government, we would all be better off!!!
http://blog.alexanderhiggins.com/2012/04/21/petrochemical-complex-nuclear-fuel-fire-explosion-125121/ Speaking of lightnig strikes. NOTHING TO SEE, MOVE ALONG PEOPLE!
The smart meters could be easily removed and jumpered (barrel locks in “affordable housing” aside), but imagine the number of dufii who will die as the try it (It’s not rocket science, but we are talking about publik skool grads here. Some of us make a lot of money on service calls a trained monkey could handle). The big problem would be the panic caused in sheeple, and any cyber attack would probably target numerous targets in order to overwhelm out fragile society. I’m sure the world took notice of the locals’ reaction to Katrina and saw it as asomething easily exploited.
Anything we had that triggered any safety function was hard wired. Our H2S alarms were all over and local (and loud). No PLC logic, not in a loop that can be messed with. Oh the best H2S alarm is your nose, it’s a rotten egg smell. CO2? Once again not in the PLC loop. The fire system was hard wired for reliability both the alarm and discharge including sensors. The GTG (Gas Turbo Generator) was loaded with them.
We had a lightening strike that shut us down. We had over 1500 alarms go through the data port on the PLC in less then a second. Task saturation to the max. We shut down W/O damage because all the interlocks are hard wired out of the computers ability to effect change. Voltage went off the chart and breakers opened. The breakers instrumentation to control trips was local. You get an alarm that says it happened and operators live with false alarms all the time. In Apollo 13 Gene Krantz says , ‘Their talking about bangs and shimmies, it don’t sound like instrumentation failure to me”.
The stuff would shut you down but not destroy a plant.
Physical sabotage frightens me in the refining and chemical industry. Read a book titled The Edge Of Disaster. No need to get into details to give a nut an idea.
kevin
“(except how a STUXNET type virus could manipulate the signal from ct’s on the load side BEFORE the step up out to the grid, and I asked HOW it could “MESS” with people and the plant)”.
We ran all the time with bogus instrumentation or instruments out of service. It’s the nature of the beast.
I’m assuming your referring to the transformers on the plant side at step up. If the signal was false on voltage, amps or vars so what? “Oh well we have an instrument problem, it can wait, write a work order”. You can’t step out of phase even if you divorced from utility you must sync in by hand. Once again the plant could trip but no damage would occur.
MESS with the people? Nothing you don’t see in bad weather, a lightening storm or an oops. Worst case you trip off line. No damage.
@kev- Awesome, thanks brother!!
So if you have to Pick ONE or TWO things you have to know?
#1. I would go with how to feed myself and stay completely out of site for at least 6 months. That includes against looters and people who didn’t plan.
#2 Better know how to can. It is really simple. just cook up most of it . (except meat products which need a pressure cooker).. put it in a sterilized jar cover with a sterilized lid and submerge in a boiling water bath for the right amount of time (look it up) but if you over cook fruit or veggies it doesn’t taste as good. Now it will hold without refridgeration… a day a week whatever. Meat needs a pressure cooker to do the jars… do you have one?
—-
I think we will have a slow fall… start a 10. a week prep plan….
Good points!…I do however respectfully disagree with the statement that you have to use a pressure canner for meat,I have one and I do use it alot but I also can alot of meat/meat mixes in a hot water bath,as did many generations before…..now Im not saying that its not a good idea to use a PC if you have one its just that people might believe they CANT can meat w/o a PC…thanks!
You can can, meats, soups and low acid veggies in a hot water bath; even very low acid squash(that some say can’t even be canned via a pressure cooker without spoilage inside the jar). However; in order to do it without worry of spoilage and possibly causing sickness from eating canned goods with bacteria present, it must be done along with adding the right amount of acidic additives such as tomatoes and/or vineger. Someone with more knowledge and experience on this will need to weigh in before you experiment too much. I get very paranoid about canned meats, especially pork. Jerky is a different story. In fact, we are making venison jerky this weekend. I have some in plastic bags, in the refrigerator, that we made three years ago. Still as good as the day we dried it. If you get the moisture out,you don’t have to worry about mold. Same goes for apples. Got some of those on hand that we dried years ago.
REB…This is something people argue about a lot.Local extension office says it’s unsafe. However my wife’s family canned meat with water bath and did not get sick. My family canned everything BUT meat and used a pressure cooker. Me, I use a pressure cooker with any low acid food, including meat. I am just not chancing it.
Electricity is the principal means of transferring energy from one point to another. It is not a source of energy itself, but is a carrier of energy.
While oil is not the main source of energy used to produce electricity, it is necessary to maintain the grid and is important in strip mining of coal that is in turn used to produce electricity. Any decline in the rate of oil production or increase in the cost of acquiring oil makes the grid more vulnerable. One electric industry insider, Richard Duncan has for years warned that once the rate of oil production falls, as it eventually will, the electric grid will fail and the lights will go out. His time predictions so far have missed the mark, but I believe his theory is sound.
Another vulnerability to the power grid would be civil war or revolution in the US which is a real possibility. A relative few rebels with hack saws, chain saws, and cutting torches could do serious damage to the cross country transmission lines, many of which are remote and vulnerable. The many trains loaded with coal destined for power plants that daily cross remote areas of the US are also highly vulnerable to sabotage. And power plants themselves would could well be targets of sabotage from workers themselves.
From what I have read, many of the components of the electric grid are well beyond their design life and it is already teetering.
Collapse of the electric grid, I think is one of the greatest nationwide dangers we face, not only because the economy would grind to a halt, but because unlike local disasters, there would be nowhere where help could originate, and once it goes down, it would be very difficult to get back up. At this point in time individual solar panels or wind generators would be a very temporary fix since repair and replacement parts would never be available with the grid down indefinitely.
We are so dependent on electric power that
Our society as currently configured depends totally on nearly uninterrupted electrical power. Start making a list of the systems that depend upon constantly available electricity and you will tire of writing long before you finish. Our society has kind of painted itself into a corner.
Smart Cars
Smart Phones
Smart Meters
Smart Grid
Since this stuff is so unreliable and so vulnerable, I’m wondering what SMART stands for:
Simply Market Another Ridiculous Trinket?
Spend More And Regret Tradng?
Sell Me A Reject Toy
Stopped Making Any Reliable Technology
Sheeple, Meet A Real Tyrant
Sells Miraculously Among Retarded Trolls
I know the meaning is in there somewhere. I just can’t find it yet. This sure mystifies a redneck trucker like me.
Simple Minded Assholes Ruling Tyrants…= SMART
thats what it stands for Okie
For smart trucker-skilled motorvehicle and rider training
For “smart” phones-secret monitoring and reporting tool
For “smart” meter- simultanious management and resource tracking
For “smart” grid- system modernization and regulatory technology
For “smart” cars- I don’t even know what the f^ck that is, maybee- stuppid men allways r tailgating
For “smart” america- simple men allways relinquish their-freedoms
Sheeple Magnet And Rube Traps
google ‘MAGNETIC GENERATORS’
@eeder- dude, you are obsessed with magnetic generator. You may want to google that scene in soylent green, with that old man cranking that generator with a bike. THAT is you AND me in the future, if we’re lucky that is.
no kevin, im obsessed with uncovering the truth in this world.
I’ve checked into magnetic generators and even saw a prototype run for a short while. If there is such a thing as perpetual motion that can be started and operated easily and efficiently, without further energy and expense, it has been shelved by TPTB. In my opinion, the only thing close to free electricity comes from fast moving water, efficient ram pumps and micro generators. Solar and wind come in a close second. Hot springs, with the right set-up can provide, “almost”, a free energy household with dependability. God has the free energy perfected and the only pure, free energy flows thru He by the Holy Spirit for humans. We are held captive by the elements of time for receiving free electrical energy for any long term periods. Man wasn’t designed to have all these electro-magnetic fields flowing around him, just so he could have all these worldly creature comforts. It’s part of the diseases and cancers we are dealing with. Soon all things will return to the “even keel” that was present during the first earth age. You know, the age that was before the “souls in the flesh” age. You know, the age that was supposed to be for eternity, until Lucifer got this big headed idea that he could rule the world with his Charisma,Charm, and Delusional state of leadership. Kinda like our present Commander-n-thief.
Sweet Mother of Jesus! It’s Saturday morning and I’m starting my third hour of a DOOMSDAY pornapalooza on the History channel. From the Egyptians onward, it’s always 2012!!! Maybe that’s why Cheney said we don’t have to worry about debt and deficits? LOL. One new idea (for me) was putting the repetitive 64 I-Ching on an historical timeline from it’s invention and it ends when? Yes, 2012. We should know in about 8 months.
Ninenty percent of females that are ages 13 to 83 are dependant upon electronic devices of some kind. Cellular telephones being # 1; then the boob tube, alarm clock,microwave,refrigerator,automobile and running water. If these are suddenly taken away, “Katie bar the doors”; the SHasHitTF, and anyone within arms reach could get smacked,stabbed,bruised or cut at anytime. Men, hide the guns, and grab your BO bags and the little kids and head for a safe place. A safe place is somewhere she can’t find you. When her/their meds run out you will begin to see death in high-heels,flats,flip-flops and sneakers, coming from all directions. These once, fun,soft and curvy felines, have now become ravenous lions with blood in their eyes. If we can figure out how to funnel them all towards Washington DC; the tyrants don’t stand a chance.
Hilarious!
Women are evil, vengeful creatures, most are insane.
How can you trust a creature that can bleed for a week and not die?
Very comforting though at times.
Now Kevin, c’mon man, you had a mother or at least a female that squirted your little ass out into the world. Somebody cared for that little ass and wiped it for you. I’ll just bet that was a woman. I agree, some are so evil and full of spite, that’s all they live for is to stir up shit among others. Sorry ex-sugar, didn’t mean to step on your TONGUE! It so loose it drags the ground and collects everyone else’s droppings. The way I have women figured is this. They are primarily a bundle of nerves and hormones. When all that is in sync, I can’t get enough of them. When PMS(little wifey’s case-menopause) sets in, or something else upsets that sync, I can’t get far enough away.
I just saw zimmerman on tv in court. They can’t lighten his skin color in the court room(like they did in those photos). Even a little 10 year old can see he is not “white”. hahahahahahahaha!!! WHERE YOU AT you race baitor!!
I was talking to the water meter reader the other week(he was just reading missed meters) Since I worked for a automated meter reading company in the early-mid 90’s, and most of our products were on water meters, I asked hime about the “smart” water meters(and told him about my hatred for the new “smart” power meter that has been installed without our blessing) Anyhow, now they can turn a persons water off from downtown just like with the power(they say its for “bad” neighborhoods) to protect their employees.
http://news.yahoo.com/china-military-warns-confrontation-over-seas-115145354.html
It seems that too many folks figure they’ll go back to the peaceful 1800’s or so if the grid collapses.
One little thing to consider. There will be a big nation that didn’t suffer the same collapse, China (among others). They can field an army of 10’s of millions that only have to be loaded on container ships and brought over to our Pacific Coast ports. If a quarter of them make it here, we’re in deep sh#t.
Don’t deceive yourselves. China and others need land and resource badly. If the front gate swings open and the defenses are down, they, like most desparate humans will come in and take what they need.
No amount of prepping will stand against hordes of hardened soldiers, who get more and more merciless as their losses mount. When they have a near unlimited source of replacements and military supplies and we don’t, what’s the result? Read history.
Just something to consider. It’s a distinct possibility.
Nuclear submarines would prevent any invasion. If that fails one nuclear weapon detonated on the surface would destroy an entire invasion fleet.
China has no need to invade what they will already own.
Siberia has lots of goodies and would be much easier to reach.
Now Russia going after Alaska maybe and China turning the Pacific into a Chinese lake.
How about a Marxist in the White House, (we’ll call him Boris and his evil wife Natasha). They use a power outage to declare an emergency. Then a bunch of well funded Marxist Rebels (like OWS) and Race baiting Radicals (like The Black Panthers), paid by a really rich old Commie like Soros, (we’ll call him Fearless Leader) starts riots to destabilize our country and hand it over to a World Wide Marxist Movement? Hokie Smoke!
Our only hope is that it all stops for an episode of Dudley Dooright. Or Aesop’s fables. Who was that dog with the glasses (and his boy Sherman)?
Mr. Peabody
Oh yeah. Thanks Auntie Commie! It’s all coming back to me now… hey rocky, watch me pull a rabbit out of my hat! what a great show!
Remember the newer “Battlestar Galactica”? Over 90% of our infrastructure(Water, electricity, and heating gas) is NOT on the network just like the older Space Fighters. Do not worry because the Cylons and Cyberhackers and StuxNets CANNOT and WILL NOT get to them. Is that simple enough to understand?
Assuming your 90% figure is correct, it only takes 1 x StuxNet (or earthquake or [insert other disaster here] to create a nuclear disaster that WILL affect everybody. Already people are starting to comprehend (even with the very little mainstream media coverage) the implications of Fukushima and the BP Gulf oil spill….both of which are far from over and the former transcends agreed national boundaries!
Earthquake scenario is obviously a real and present danger. If they are using computer automated control systems that can be breached via ethernet connections and/or engineered viruses then the danger may be real if hardware/personnel backups are lacking or untrustworthy.
With the aged infrastructure. We are probably overdue for some kind of cascading failure that spreads across a few regions. Like the one that started in Quebec and spread to the Eastern sea board.
Mac
Can you do us all a favor, and eliminate the government trolls from this site.we all know who they are…. just make them go bye bye please.
~Eeder~
Assuming you’re interested in such topics, take a tour of this site & watch the attached video too…..
http://www.searlsolution.com/technology2.html
http://www.youtube.com/watch_popup?v=w1tYhCFksqE&vq=medium
I don’t mind black outs. No TV to distract me. No lights apart from candles or fire hearth ect, so may as well go to bed early and get an AWESOME nights sleep. Might have to wash me clothes in the river and dry them on the line and cook on the BBQ (that’s a wood fired Barbie – I don’t like gas BBQs because it needs gas) And because I had an AWESOME nights sleep, I’ll probably have plenty of energy to walk to the shoreline and go fishing or collecting drift wood for the fire or speed hours in the garden, or spend a couple days making fishing nets out of flax or constructing fish traps from drift wood and string.
Loosing power doesn’t need to be a drama. We all lived without power for thousands of years and quite happily survived.
A friend of mine has built a small hydro generator, using river water running through progressively smaller and smaller pipes layed along a river bed for a few hundred yards to power it. Can’t even see it because all the pipes are below water and the small turbine dug into the side of a bank is well camouflaged. It comfortably powers three houses and a barn. Of course nobody has disco lights on all night ect. But they need to monitor their power usage.
I won’t tell you which State they are in. Don’t want the Storm Troopers sent in to take away what they have for FREE!!!!
Anyone can have the same. Don’t always need big fancy corporate made solar panels or water heaters to have power. And it’s a great way to tell the system to Get Fked.
USA would need some of the illegal aliens from the third world to teach umurikans things like how a clothesline operates, how to flush an outhouse, etc (and that there is no wireless remote).
Yeah!! I had to teach my Umurikan wife how to hang clothes on the line and show her how clothes pegs worked!!! LMAO. Same went with lighting a fire during winter, using the stove instead of a microwave and boiling water???!!!! OMG!!! And cooking from scratch as she so pleasantly described whipping something up in the kitchen that didn’t come out of a can or box!!!
Me poor old mum was mortified. She asked me one day if my wife and her sisters knew how to do anything beyond putting on makeup and finding the bargains on sale?
Took some training, but she can now clean and gut a fish when she catches one, shear a sheep, milk a cow, chop wood, change a tire and sew on a button and even track game and shoot the bastard too!!
What about her sisters??? Bloody useless!!!! Gene pool anchors!!!! Nothing but dog tucker!!!! Cant tell color of shite from clay! AND THEY BRED TOO!!!!!
Funny you should mention the river generator,AS. A couple years ago, A contracting electrical company that does work for the State’s electricity provider, cam up to my place to “replace” the underground line that runs to my meter from the transformer. I had been having occasional problems for almost a year and with weak readings and sometimes I’d loose one leg entirely. After three different “attempts” from three different service techs, and the problem was still present, I was told the problem was on my side and the problem was most likely my main ground from the disconnsct and/or breaker panel. After my friend/electrician checked it out, “no problem with your end”. Once again, I called and they sent some over paid, smart-ass out that I just about went Jackie Chan on. That condescending pc-O-sh**, best not come on my property again. Anyways, this a-ho says it must be in the buried cable/line and “we don’t dig in dirt”, so here come the contractor guys; super nice guys, and know their stuff. After running some tests, the man in charge says he bets it is on their transformer, and digs to one spot,and finds no problem. They then have to call for a bucket truck from the service provider, (they are not allowed to climb, or do anything to lines above ground, anymore). While waiting, this guy says he could fix the thing in about five minutes with a 3′ piece of copper wire. We discuss wind,solar, etc. He lives about three counties away, and says his neighbor, that is wealthy, intelligent and retired, made a homemade type generator attached to a squirrel cage type fan and laid it out across a swift running creek on his property. When it was all said and done this guy was generating so much electricity, he had all kinds of diverter batteries and crazy conglomerations of things to handle the excess. This wizard then calls the “power company” and wants to run the excess back on the grid. They think he is just some shade tree electricity junkie and basically keep putting him off to someone else until, he is talking with a vp somewhere and is told there is no way and it would be illegal anyway. What the power company didn’t know was, this wizard had plenty of money and time, and had never been used to anyone telling him ‘NO’. He hires a big shot attorney and…….. three months later, the power company is at his house installing a transfer box (at their expense) so he can run his excess back onto the grid. The contractor guy says his neighbor (the wizard) gets a check from the “power company”, every month, for $1000.00+….. The guy with the bucket truck shows up and the contractor guys have to tell him what to do to fix the problem. All he needs is a short piece of copper wire. The contractor guys have to give him a piece from their truck, cause the “power company” guy, making about $50.00 per hour, doesn’t have any on his truck. What a hoot.
Apparently, folks don’t want to hear stuff like what I posted.
The Chinese are not stupid people.
The inhabitants of the U.S. are one EMP/SolarFlare away from extinction.
Our enemies know this. It is their ultimate dream. And there is one who will risk annihilation to see it come to fruition. When it comes within their power to do so, they will. 100% certainty.
In the past we needn’t worry, this enemy had no capability. Now, after 33 years that is about to change.
As we like to think that there is a way out of this,us stupid humans thrive off of hope,i will post the same thing i always post here…There are 400 nuclear plants on the planet,second largest is down the street from me,when the pumps stop running in the reactors…were all DEAD! Think im gonna stop prepping 🙁
Dirty Greek, you should think about the guy who survived being at ground zero in Japan – twice – during WWII. And he lived for a very long time.
Good point Clark.
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I am on the fence on all of this end of power grid, end of days talk-
Lets all wait to december 22 2012 and see
Who is 1st! To post..
All these “Sky is Falling” predictions are doing their designed work to perfection, resulting in a confused public fearing the least little mouse fart. Get off your duffs and learn VALUABLE skills. If the power goes out, demand for computer techs & armchair blogging commandos will be pretty low. Common sense will be the deciding factor on whether you live or die. Just remember, ANYTHING that you rely on can fail at ANYTIME; so look how you are prepped in that area.
BTW: I consider the following items #1 that WILL fail me even in a non-SHTF scenario; cell phones, computers, television and the newer vehicles that are computer controlled. I’ve personally watched people go absolutely bugsh*t when they lost use of just one of those items. High Tech, just like our government, will abandon you when you need it the most.
(AP) — A loud explosion heard across much of Nevada and California on Sunday morning rattled homes and prompted a flood of calls to law enforcement agencies on both sides of the Sierra Nevada, some reporting fireball sightings.
The sound and the light show were likely caused by a meteor that entered Earth’s atmosphere, astronomers said.
Anyone can predict anything anytime. We have had “Sages” throughout history, some have been right, some wrong.
This is the way I was raised…
To be conservative as best I can. Put up food for when it may be needed. LEarn skills to take care of myself and help family and friends. Hunt, fish, trap. grow gardens, preserve food, work hard, depend on no-one as people will fail you, we are human. Certainly do not depend on government.
I make own ammo, do minor gunsmithing, know how to polish a blade so you can shave hair with it. Build things to help self suffiencey.
Call me a prepper, I don’t care, nobodu called my grandparents preppers, they were known as prudent.
So just finished a unit this weekend…for Geo-man!!!
It is cleaned out, steamed out and tested…
For those that care:
James Bond – boiler is coming along, we can say within weeks…
Salt water and marine, your boiler are reday still working on condensors…we are talking within weeks…
Arkansas, your will be finished this coming weekend.
That catches me up on orders.
There will be an article in “Horse Back” magazine in May, that will have my distillation units in it. I urge people to pick up a copy as the article will be on self sufficiency….
IF we have a grid go down, think about alternative energy you CAN use…
I manufacture MULTI_PURPOSE DISTILLATION units. They are fully functioning miniature fractionating reflux towers and boiler for distilling water,or refining ethanol/alcohol to ANTI_SEPTIC and FUEL grade…
I have a “toy” size, 1 gallon, for experimentation and practice/proving and can make 2 gallon, 4 gallon, 5-6 gallon, 10+ gallon and am working on 60 gallon custom job. These units are hand made, 100% copper, TIG welded and garanteed for your life or mine. They are not inexpensive but they are the best quality that you can find, none of the cheap stainless and single pass condensing that you see on ebay. And my units come ready to use, you do not need any extra hose, or supply your own boiler, these are raedy to use using any heat source from firewood to natural gas.
If anyone wants to make ethanol as a fuel or antiseptic in an emergency, these will do it. IF you doubt, just ask Mac….
Terry W. Reed
LNL PROTEKT LLC
take care and God Bless!
MAJOR SIGN THAT SHTF SITE IS FULL OF SHIT
Not ONE prediction has come to pass. Not one!!!!!!
we Don’t make predictions here.
Im predict that your snarky comment is gone soon.
Hey Hartly, Mac doen’t make predictions. He does occasionally post articles by others where THEY make a prediction, some accurate…some not. And he allows comenters to say whatever they want (ain’t free speech great?).
I, for instance, have predicted for 635 days in a row. Every day I predict that somebody will comment that the s hasn’t htf yet. The score so far…635 right, 0 wrong. How’s that for ACCURACY? Pretty danged impressive, I’d say.
By the way, our shit quotient drops 30% on the days you don’t show up. Please come back, otherwise we’ll have more fans that shit to hit them. Thanks in advance for your help.
You do know that the predictions:
real estate bubble
food/fuel inflation
Greek riots
rules/regs impeding movement,business creation,savings, recreation areas usage,fraud-free elections,fall of USD, municipal bankruptcies,tax increases on savings/investments,debt increase,trade decrease and many others have all happened, were all posted here.
Some were predicted years in advance. The problem is people do not pay attention &/or others try to time the disasters. If you have a memory, stay informed and realize no one can predict exact date/time, you will realize your comment is misinformed.
Than there are those that just dont get it..and thats what we have here today..and this is the way he likes it..so he gets it.
Geeeze if we had to explane it to everyone we’d never get a dam thing done now would we?
GMO FOODS = STERILITY FOR MEN AND WOMEN = ASS & BREAST CANCER = HORMONE IMBALANCE = DUDES BECOME LADIES = LADIES GET BIG BOOBS!
DON’T EAT MONSANTO GMO FOOD!
DON’T EAT GMO HORMONE FED STOCK YARD PENNED KEPT MEAT!
GMO = DEATH!
from the Daily Crux…
Obama has Prosecuted More Whistleblowers than All Other Presidents COMBINED
(www.washingtonsblog.com/2012/04/obama-has-prosecuted-more-whistleblowers-than-all-other-presidents-combined.html)
Story originally was on Yahoo (April 20) and includes an FBI warning link.
Real or hoax?
Virus Alert – DNS Malware
(www.teapartyeconomist.com/2012/04/23/virus-alert-you-may-lose-your-computer-on-july-1/)
Check here:
dns-ok (dot)us(slash)
(avoiding actual url to speed moderation time)
green: you are ok
red: you are not
Did you all hear about the “Closed Hospitality Centers” A.K.A. concentration camps, being built in Greece?
“… Of course, stating that they are building them to house government dissenters won’t go over well with much of the population so they have stated that they are building it to house that all-time favorite scapegoat, “illegal immigrants”, mostly from Africa.” …
http://lewrockwell.com/berwick/berwick45.1.html
They seem to be playing with snakes in Greece, and in the unitedstate as well.
Did you notice the photo of the American “Unleavable Party Vehicle” (UPV) in that article too? Whoa.
Nice touch what with all the V.I.P.E.R. checkpoints they are installing around the country.
Opting Out never sounded so good as it does now, cause there ain’t no stopping this monster until it falls over from its own lopsided weight.
These smart grids will be used to have rolling blackouts so the government can manipulate the chaos.
You bet they will if they don’t malfunction first & burn you house down!
Be Informed….where did you get your figures above on so much of the earths surface being unable to grow food… I’m curious…
Great info to think about but kind of scary too.
BRING IT ON…….POW
Oh Well!
I challenge the moderators or whoever starts new topics on here to start a NEW THREAD. How does one prepare for 400 nuclear power plants exploding,after SHTF.
Here’s how i think its gonna go,martial law takes place,the employees running/overseeing the cooling pumps in the nuke plants realize that its every man for himself,and or runs out of resources(electricity,food,water),then the inevitable happens…BOOM!
Im praying that im wrong so im begging anyone reading this to give me insight. I believe its going to be whats left(post SHTF) of humanity’s BIGGEST challenge.