Update: FAA Responds To Drone Hunting: “Could Result in Criminal or Civil Liability”

by | Jul 20, 2013 | Headline News | 266 comments

Do you LOVE America?



    (Pictured: Draganflyer X6 domestic surveillance drone over Mesa, CO)

    In response to overwhelming public support for a new ordinance in the small Colorado town of Deer Trail, which would issue hunting licenses and bounties for shooting down unmanned aerial vehicles, the Federal Aviation Administration has warned that penalties for those who engage drones could be severe.

    The FAA released a statement in response to questions about an ordinance under consideration in the tiny farming community of Deer Trail, Colo., that would encourage hunters to shoot down drones. The administration reminded the public that it regulates the nation’s airspace, including the airspace over cities and towns.

    A drone “hit by gunfire could crash, causing damage to persons or property on the ground, or it could collide with other objects in the air,” the statement said. “Shooting at an unmanned aircraft could result in criminal or civil liability, just as would firing at a manned airplane.”


    Phillip Steel, who authored the original proposal in Deer Trail, Colorado says his ordinance is a “pre-emptive strike”  against what he calls a “virtual prison” being created through continued expansion of the surveillance state.

    He dismissed the FAA’s warning. “The FAA doesn’t have the power to make a law,” he said.

    The FAA is working on regulations to safely integrate drones into the skies over the U.S., where manned aircraft are prevalent. The Congress gave the FAA until 2015 to develop the regulations, but the agency is behind schedule. FAA officials have estimated that once regulations are in place, thousands of drones will be in use across the country for a wide variety of purposes, from helping farmers figure out which crops need watering to tracking sea lions in remote rocky outcroppings to aiding search and rescue missions.

    But the Deer Trail proposal is the latest ripple in a spreading backlash against drones. Dozens of laws aimed at curbing the use of the unmanned aircraft have been introduced in states and cities. Privacy advocates have expressed fear that police will use drones to cheaply and effectively conduct widespread surveillance without warrants.

    That the FAA was forced to issue a warning suggests that drones, despite their popularity in government and law enforcement circles, are not as popular as some may think, especially in the aftermath of the NSA surveillance scandal that involves the cataloging, analyzing and archiving of some 20 trillion electronic records that include phone calls and emails.

    The Department of Homeland Security recently advanced a plan to deploy “public safety” drones in the skies over America, an action Congress authorized last year calling for the deployment of 30,000 drone surveillance vehicles by 2020.

    The increased dependence of domestic law enforcement and military personnel on drone technology has left Americans concerned that like the thousands of innocent civilians being killed by these faceless robots overseas in various anti-terror campaigns, they, too, may become enemies of the State under powers authorized by the National Defense Authorization Act and the Patriot Act.

    Earlier this year four American citizens were killed by a drone strike approved by the President of The United States. They were suspected of terrorist activity and killed without due process.

    In a recent statement, President Obama hinted that he has the authority to initiate domestic drone strikes against American citizens, though he suggested the rules for such attacks inside of the United States would be different from those governing actions on foreign soil.



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      1. Oh what an exciting and important weekend subject.

        • Right.
          30 thousand drones. That’s a large amount. Probably enough to watch every highway, road, and public area in America. But they want to talk about the “good” things they will be used for; like tracking sea lions.
          Just to man, repair, troubleshoot, manufacture, and support that many drones, will involve a lot of people. With the economy getting worse, I don’t doubt that people will gladly help to further enslave Americans for a paycheck.

          • Well, Obama did say he was going to create jobs.

            • Drones??
              hell, I thought it was a buzzard
              circling the chicken coop.

              • Drones on your property are the same as some type of bug or listening device put into your home. Smash the bug and smash the drone if you can. Civil problems with this? Hey FAA, how about the civil part of violating someone privacy, there are laws against this. You see one of those hummingbird drones or other disguised animal drones and anyone needs to flattened it. This is my right and the right of every single last American not to be watched. There are also anti-stalking laws on the books FAA, that protects from some weidro going out and purchasing a drone for a couple hundred bucks and watching someone for their jollies. Only good drone meant to watch people that have done nothing, is a smashed and dead drone.

                • If i saw one of those little drones hovering anywhere near my place id get out my bird gun and some magnum goose shells, 4’pattern at 75yds

                  • Maybe I should get out the paint for a couple of big signs —

                    DUE TO DAMAGE OR THEFT”

                  • You know what will happen, they will deputize a drone and call it an officer, and if you shoot one down they will arrest you and charge you with murdering a law enforcment officer.

                  • @ DollarstoDonuts. Very interesting article, kind of difficult to look at the maps tilted vertically though. There is much more to the Louisana problem than people realize. First of all the New Madrid is connected to this for tens of millions of years ago, and still influences it. what they said about Alaskan earthquakes affecting this zone is very true. The movement of the North American plate on a three dimensional plain does meet up with Louisana and Alaska. Those faults kind of remind me of Nevada type faults, but underwater, and with two similar large faults connecting them, the San Andreas and the New Madrid.

                    I was surprised that this article did not mention the severe sea level rises and drops that affect this region big time. During the last ice age Louisana was much above sea level and did not have the saltwater marshes that it has today. Much glacial runoff reached Louisana and through the Mississippi River and other rivers carried the silty make up that helped form much of what the state is today. Throgh manmade unnatural warping of the landscape the natural cycle of rebuilding protective islands was halted. They did mention this restoration program in the article. What is happening now is that these barrier islands are disappearing and hurricanes are actually going further and further inland.

                    The real problem here is exactly what happened in Signal Hill, Long Beach, California during the 1910’s and 1920’s with all the removal of oil along the Newport Ingelwood fault. The 1933 Long Beach earthquake has long been thought to been caused by this. Faults are already not stable, and tipping that equalibrium even more so can and does help to set off the fault a lot sooner. I can see where they mentioned this with Louisana.

                    The real problem with any sizable earthquake is not some tsunami, or even the destruction of cities such as New Orleans, as the earthquake from these is probably maximum 6-6.5. This will not waste an area. The real frighteing problem is the release of methane gas, as in a huge bubble that rapidly comes to surface from the bottom of the Gulf. First this can cause a tsunami. The Weather Channel probably overblew the size when they did a documentry on this recently. 50 feet is kind of high. 30-35 feet is not with the shallow water that would help it build up.

                    Still the tsunami would not be the major problem, though it would waste most oil depots on the coast and the cities there. It is the ignition of the methene gas that would be catastrophic. The explosive power could be as large as almost 100 megatons under the wrong circumstances, but probably still be several megatons. This is a problem as it could ignite a whole lot of the Gulf.

                    Just the same as a large enough earthquake releasing the magma through a fissure, so can an earthquake release the methane type below the Gulf floor. The bubble can also be released just from the pressure build up or the failure of the system as a whole. Yes over drilling can cause this to happen. There is much criticism over this being science fiction, but in reality methane is combustable when it is separated from the water, and this is not much of a problem since it is lighter than air.

                    The disbalancing of the land can cause earthquakes, and just the simple fact that the oceans are much higher and there is more salt water intrusion can help cause moderate to larger quakes. When you have a land mass that was basically much dryer and higher in the past 10000 years and is now basically almost a quicksand type of bog, this can have much bearing on the fault blocks. Nice article to read, especially since it foretells of problems that could lead to much bigger problems.

                • Good evening, BI. I believe in most cases that the UAVs will be too far out of effective rifle range, so that leaves some sort of electronic device as the only option for bringing one down. The only way i’ll consider bringing one down is if one is attacking my home with a missile or whatever. All of the people killed by them in Iraq and Afghanistan have proven to be innocent people. If any drones with Hellfires start attacking US citizens on US soil, that’s a red line being crossed and it will be game on. the drones would then be fair game and targets of opportunity provided they’re within effective rifle range. If/when I see any foreign troops on the streets, they will be considered invaders, and I’ll take them on faster than I would a drone. in most cases, they WILL be within effective rifle range. once again, the original and true bravheart

                  • @ braveheart. I don’t know why anyone would be attacking you like they did. If anything you are completely pro-prepper and pro-people that want to save themselves from what is coming. This means everyone that wants to go to the effort of saving themselves. I see so many people that go through everyday personal SHTF events, and IF they had prepared for the true emergencies that face the country and world, they would have fared so much better when the hammer came down on their own lives. What has happened to common sense and all the people that use to want to be ready? Sad and pathetic at the same time. 🙁

                • Let’s just do be careful what’s on the other side of the projectiles that get fired. 🙂 once assured its safe, fire away! 🙂

                  • Make sure you cover your face before you shoot.

                  • Not everything needs a projectile to do damage, remember these thing are glorified R/C planes. if you can interfere with the signal or fry the electronics(think microwave) they are Done!

                • Those FAA warnings are somewhat hollow. First: Check local FAA maps/charts to see if your particular area is under any FAA control. If not, then they don’t have jurisdiction. Second: The claim that it MAY hit other craft if shot is pure B.S. Most drones used by the various police agencies fly at very low altitudes, way below that even of privately owned aircraft. Third: The FAA would have to prove intent if one were to shot down a drone. The shooter, if ever caught, which is highly unlikely in the first place, would have to admit to it. Why unlikely, because if the person is smart enough he’ll find the downed drone and take the camera and then destroy it. No photos=no evidence. By the way, the drones used here are far less sophisticated and high flying than those used overseas. That could change in the future. So for now, happy hunting everyone !!!

              • Well hell jethro outwest and other big talkers here. Gumb dang it, I is gonna shoot every god dang kite and model areoplain out of the sky. Din I gonna hunt down the UN invaders and kill me some Africans. Din when day knock on my door from the gubberment I is gonna shoot them in da face. Din I am gonna hot lead Ben bernankeees the Yankees ass. Din I is gonna give whoever is after my guns a fuckin shot to the nuts. Din I gonna go home and count my silver bullets food and prep. Din I am not gonna start a race war but I sure as fuck gonna end it. Da black planters never come but they gonna. The crash is gonna come da gibber meant gonna come. You are all a bunch of chicken little tough guys slobbering on your computers. None of your shit has or will come true. None of your fears have come true. None of your “I feel it” has come true. It’s killing you because friends and family have ridiculed you. They were right. Get a fucking life and quit typing about gonna do and go outside. Admit you were goofy for a couple of decades and give up the fear. If the government were so big and bad, why didn’t they kill you ?

                • To the one posting as “braveheart on a computer”, GO F#$% YOURSELF THRU HELL AND BACK! YOUR TROLLING IS BAD ENOUGH, BUT YOU HAVE THE AUDACITY TO POST UNDER MY NAME! GO TO AN MSM SITE WITH YOUR DRIVEL. THEY’LL BE HAPPY TO HAVE YOU! the original and true braveheart

                  • Right on BH
                    We all know the real deal,
                    Keep the faith

                • Well, well, well

                  Don’t we just have some kind of philosopher here.

                  Goofy for a couple decades is readily admitted,
                  but fear has nothing to do with it, penis breath.
                  It seems you have lost your way and wandered onto
                  a site that requires a tad more testosterone than
                  that which you are so obviously lacking.
                  There isn’t much call for eunuchs in this country
                  but perhaps they may have some use for you in the
                  Middle East emptying harem piss pots.

                • Whomever you are attacking braveheart and the people here, I suggest that you wake up for your own sake. I have personally seen an increase in the intensity, duration, and overall size of the natural disasters, both geophysical and climate wise. They can get a lot worse.

                  The state of war is a critical one as the build up of arms in most countries is rivaling that of the peak of the cold war. What do you think that people will do with these wepaons, just sit of them?

                  The population of the planet is above 7 billion, this means that there is almost 1500 people per square mile of arable land. Overall this is the breaking point of not having enough food and mass starvation. Countries will more than 1500 people per square mile of arable land have to almost always import food to prevent going hungry.

                  Pandemics erupt throughout history when people’s immune systems have been compromised. This is true in all species of life from animal to plant. A smallpox type of virus would be a true SHTF and then some.

                  The Sun will definitely belch up another solar EMP and hit the planet. If the one back 9 years ago and happened 3 days previous, no one would be on a computer right now or have any electricity. Yes a decade after this, it was that massive and missed the planet.

                  You talk about chicken little. How about the power outage on the east coast recently in which people did not have electricity for over 2 weeks, lots of people. That meant if they did not have food stored up and could not drive a long distance to a store they had to go and wait in a FEMA line for hours. They still had no electricity, no air conditioners or fans, some died. Preppers usually have some electric back up and did not have to go through this lightweight SHTF.

                  You talk about Chicken Little. There are people that each day lose their jobs and/or are hit with tremendous finacial burdens, millions of people. It is sure nice when you have no money or credit to prucahse food and other necessities to be able to go into your stockplie and get what you need instead of going to the local foodbank and getting stale or possible not too good for you food.

                  I highly suggest you get out of the non prepper mode, because one day non preppers are going to wish so long and hard that they had prepared. So many regrets people make, instead of attacking a good person like braveheart you should look into your own life and safeguarding you and your family from when something does happen.

                  • Bi,
                    They call us preppers now and many treat us like were off, in the days of our grandparents you were considered incompetent if you didnt have food and other supplies put up for times of need.
                    They used to call it common sense, sadly these days a skeptical and watchful eye and common sense measures to insure your families safety and wellbeing are lacking if not non existent in most, when, not if TSHTF no matter what it is, those of us who use our heads and do our due dilligence will not be the ones looking for help.

                  • Kulafarmer,

                    Today, common sense says:

                    1. Spend every dollar you make because inflation only eats it up.

                    2. Don’t spend it on anything durable. You can’t take it with you!

                    3. Make as much money as you can even at the expense of anyone and everone otherwise you’re just passing up an opportunity.

                    4. Pay your taxes!!! …the government is your savings acocunt! They’ve created a safety net and you can be sure they’ll take care of you if you can’t take care of you.

                    This is the kind of crap ideas that I see my friends doing. They don’t say it but they do it and actions speak louder than words. No one sees the value of a personal food bank, a personal savings account in a vault or a hidey hole or some guns an ammo set aside to use during a YOYO situation.

                    The fact is, all of the feedback these people get from the “authorities” is that you’re just wasting your money buying all that extra stuff. In reality, it is TRUE savings. The price in dollars my vary from time to time, but, a 20lb bag of rice is still just as much to eat in 2 years as it is right now and if you rotate our your stuff, you’re talking a big savings.

                    People don’t seem to understand that what a person is really trying to do in accumulating dollars is to accumulate value to use later to purchase stuff. Well, if you accumulate the stuff you use, you’re shortcutting the process and removing the hidden inflation tax.

                    The fact is, preppers are savers. We are savers that save at a level below the uniformed to bypass the control of the state. Of course, that is the REAL reason we are discredited: the state can’t control our assets because we have already purchased it. We, in effect, are a threat to their illegitimate power. Its why they fight so hard against using real money (gold and silver) instead of fake money (digitally and ink-printed dollars).

                    But, mostly, the reason we are defamed is because they can’t just wipe us off the planet on a whim. Its not so much the supplies and the guns that they fear, its the independent mindset that we won’t depend on the dishonest bastards that run our country and we’ll ignor them and do what we want.

                    In effect, when you prep and when you install systems to support yourself off-grid you’re saying “Pucker up butter cup!” and flipping the bird to people that just can’t deal with that sort of thing. EVERYONE MUST BOW and they just can’t stand it that we won’t.

                    Keep stacking and rotating!

            • @ James

              The only jobs Obama has ever created were those that were “shovel ready”……basically only for Cemetery workers, and funeral homes, because that’s where the USA is headed.

            • IF you dick heads don’t want them shot down ,,here is a thought don’t fly them over America,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,


          • James in Dallas-
            You hit on a very important point. Americans, desperate to feed their families, will do just about anything. Including working for the system that ultimately wants to kill or enslave us all.
            Strange, how a man’s conscience will bend when his kids are hungry.

            • @SmokinO……..I don’t believe any body needs an excuse to justify their actions. It’s human nature to tell yerself it’s ok ,as long as you GET what ya WANT..and nevermind if ya have to piss a few people off to get your reward!! Here’s an example=My neighbor knocked on my door at 2:30 this morning ,can you believe that 2:30? Luckily for HIM I was still up playin my DRUMS!!!…..(end joke)…..mm~

              • Oh, now THAT’S good!

            • @SmokinOkie
              I hope to God I never have to make decisions for my family`s sake, that will interfere with my moral conscience.
              After the bottom fell out on natural gas prices, while the housing bubble was popping, I moved to Oklahoma, and worked for a slaughter house for a while. In the area there, there were no jobs to be had, at all. I was lucky to have the job at all, but I was forced to turn a blind eye to daily animal cruelty, and disgusting food health violations.Now don’t get me wrong, I eat meat, and have no problem harvesting an animal for food, but using a baseball bat just for fun on live cows and hogs is beyond cruel. But, even still I put my family ahead of standing up for what was right. Even with all the rat poop getting into the ground meat, I had to look the other way, or lose my job. Yes, I feel bad about it, but I refused to not have an income.
              In tougher times, people will not think twice before stepping on someone else to provide their needs. Especially if they perceive you as being better off financially than they are. I have seen this in my travels to third world countries.
              I am only sharing my personal Experiences to point out that I have experienced situations that were morally contradictory to the person that I am and try to be.
              I have no doubts that the majority of these amoral people that live here in America, will easily kill for a meal or some bling in a wrol situation.
              It truly is sad times we live in.

              • “Even with all the rat poop getting into the ground meat,”

                OK , james , im callin this BULLSHIT .
                i have worked in many slaughter faciluties over the years off and on .
                99% of them DO NOT PROCESS ground beef .
                a slaugherhouse may cut meat into quarters , but then send it off to a butcher .
                and inspectors are ALWAYS present , i have never seen such conditions as you describe .you sound as if you have an agenda to push .it aint workin .
                but i am glad to have gotten out of that line of work .
                if you know of a facilaty that is THAT dirty , then it is important to point it out , people could die , it somtimes is bigger than a paycheck .

                as OKIE pointed out , people WILL do alot of things , but standing by as people are poisoned is criminal in of itself .
                hope you sleep well.

                • @Hammerhead
                  You don’t know me, so I will not take offence to your calling bullshit. I try very hard to be truthful and conduct myself with integrity. I hope this helps to validate my earlier post;

                  The place is called raineys custom butchering outside of Bartlesville ok. ( Ramona, ok) It’s a small op, we processed 4 to 5 cows a day. We ground what was left from the cuts and stuffed tubes with the ground beef.
                  I took pictures of everything while I was there, and after I left, I reported them and told everyone I talked to about the rat poop. I still have those pictures.

                  • OH – a “custom” shop , well ya never know .
                    i always encouraged people to be involved with their food from start to finish.
                    never worked in OK , but did work in TX , a full scale facility would never operate that way.
                    have a great weekend .

                  • James, how long ago did these events take place? I’ve had meat processed there for 20+ years. it was called McBride’s before Rainey bought it. I have two fat calves to process this fall, don’t know if I need to find a new place or not.

                • @hammered
                  I forgot to mention, I have you a thumbs up.
                  It is our duty as thinking Americans to be skeptical of what we are told, and to speak up about injustices. You at right, my turning my back was criminal. I was there very briefly.
                  They did things like that before I worked there, and I hope that my actions after I left helped to stop them from continuing.

                  I commend you for your intellect in seeing through the words of my post, and divining the message I wanted to get across; Desperate people will do morally incorrect things. I am not an exception to that rule, ask yourself; who truly is?

                  Again; these are sad times we live in.

                  • @ okiecowboy
                    About 4 years ago.
                    I would go somewhere else.

                • There are not enough inspectors to be present at all facilities all the time.

                  I know of at least one facility that was far away from the highway, but you still had to keep the car windows rolled up and drive fast to avoid the stench. It would gag a maggot.

                  • bullshit archback , there are more government employees than you can SEE !
                    its ALL federal inspection , did you think the fed union would would not have enough inspectors?
                    but yes , the rendoring trailors have an “odor” .

                  • I said inspectors, not government employees. You can check the statistics yourself. The number of slaughterhouses and the number of inspectors is about the same, 3,000 or 4,000 of each. Only if all slaughterhouses operated only 8 hours a day and shut down for lunch and breaks would there be enough inspectors to even be present 100 percent of the time. Even then, they can’t look at everything at once.

                    You are extrapolating what you may or may not have experienced in one place to the country as a whole.

                    That facility that I said smelled so badly was packaging meat for grocery stores. And they were working with meat outdoors under a shed roof with no screening to keep out flies.

                    Also, you spelled “rendering trailers” incorrectly, which error was among an amazing number of errors in such a short response.

              • James in Dallas;

                Your a “PETA WACKO”

                • Hu, that’s news to me. I learn something new every day.

                • why are we talking about rat poop in meat instead of drones???eat it and shut up its all that we have left,,,,


          • I’m not sure couch sitting, watching American Idolatry, punching in your EBT password and maintaining your unemployment bank balance is sufficient qualification to work on these gizmos.

            • “Your comment is awaiting moderation.”

              “We’re not trying to censor you, the system just wants to make sure you’re not a robot posting random spam”

              “THE SYSTEM JUST WANTS …… ” LOL

              Have a nice day Ms. System. Out.

              • LAZ -i pitched a bitch about the same thing.
                and then i was informed that i had to give up an e-mail address to avoid moderation.
                it seems free speach comes at a price………

                • Silly person. Don’t you know how to make up an address like everyone else here does?

                  That’s not much of a “price,” is it?

                  • YES

          • Well if we shoot them then they need fixed or replaced. So we help the economy by providing the gun manufacture, the ammo manufacture, the drone manufacture, the drone technician, and the drone instructor (tactical avoidance training… please cue “danger Zone” music), with even more employment. So help your fellow American and shoot a drone for the economy and your country. ….( “ flying right into to the danger zone…. danger zone…….).

            • A true Keynesian approach to the problem. Paul Krugman would be proud.

          • Try shooting at any Aircraft or Helio’s.

            The FAA and probably some of the other alphabet soup agencies, will make your day very unhappy.

            Come on guys show at least a little bit of intelligence. Quit trying to be Anti-everything.

            Walking away scratching his head in wonder.

            • christen man
              that wasn’t a drone man that was an angel,,,,,,,,,,,,,


            • CHRISTIAN MAN,your going to love the FEMA CAMP your in,BE SURE TO TELL THEM YOUR A CHRISTIAN,cause your friends in the government will be looking for you,they have special things planned for christians in the fema camps,and if you have a family,they’ll really enjoy it….LOOK UP FEMA DEATH CAMPS,the internet is full of pictures of them….as a matter of fact the opening of the FIFTH SEAL,in you bible tells you what to expect from your government friends…….

          • Unfortunately I have to disagree with you. This is not an attempt to be argumentative. Think about this. Some poor schmoo has been unemployed for say about 11 months because the factory he worked at making 11.75 an hour was outsourced to Indonesia. So he’s about to loose the house and his wife is threatening to leave because this isn’t what she signed up for. He’s offered a Government job with bebefits at 16.00/hr and all he has to do is repair and assemble drones. Let’s say he was in the Air Force and he was a airframe mechanic. Hell he’s not doing the spying he’s just building the drones. He doesn’t care what the Gov does with them he gets to feed his family and the wife doesn’t leave. Sorta like the Germans in Nazi Germany. If the Gov compartmentalize things the left hand doesn’t know what the right hand is doing. He’ll take the job to keep his family together.

          • JAMES.I am sure the people who are in on the drones,from the FAA,to the pilots,won’t mind when the day comes, THAT THEIR HANGED FOR TREASON,after all they’ll have the best excuse history has to offer,I WAS JUST DOING MY JOB,we’ll hang’em anyway..just remember you drone people,some where theres a computer or paper with your name on it,IRON CLAD PROOF your a traitor and spy………

          • I SURE AM GLAD the FAA made it clear their the ones to HANG FOR TREASON,hope they realize they just put their head on the chopping block………….

        • Facebook- Looks like Mac is leaving the playground open for us! I’d go hang upside down on the monkey bars, but when I do, my lunch money falls out of my pocket and Ted Kennedy swipes it.

        • Fuck faa and scum feds. If one is in range over my place its gone, along with whoever shows up to fuck with me. You better ask yourself if you want to be buried in an unmarked grave…

          • Yeah gonna shoot dem I am. Din shoot da fuckers who show up to take my pacifier gun away. Hahahahaha. What have you ever done other than type?

            • The question is, what have ~you~ ever done but troll? And you’re not even very good at that…

        • I was just pondering our comments on these articles and thinking about how we expose our thoughts for a few votes, whether they be thumbs up or down. I know we don’t just comment for the votes, but to voice our feelings, but I’m sure most of us check to see how our comments are rated by each other. Now if you go back 4 or 5 articles you will see that the comments you made were forgotten as we move on to new things. But just remember that once your thoughts have been put into print they can’t be recalled, as the NSA well knows. So speak freely, but guard your tounge, it could be used against you one day. This is not a joke, and once you have to stand alone with no one to cheer you on, most peoples Bravado will be gone. Just a warning to fellow Patriots. Trekker Out. Live Free Or Die!

          • My thoughts will always be the same. If we let fear rule our hearts we are slaves already.

            • What a shame some mistake wisdom for fear. But I’ll be Judged by God and other wise Preppers and Patriots. Trekker Out. I Fear Only God!

              • Sounds like you fear the scum in the goverment more, trek.

          • Live free but watch your mouth? Wow. You are a walking contradiction trekker. Thumbs down for being a scared little bitch.

            • Hell only knows, “shut up and mind your own business” just isn’t in the Liberal lexicon, though what the majority of them have to say is just so much hot air.

          • Good advice…but advice I probably won’t take. One look at my internet posts over the last few years by the NSA will only validate what every one already knows… I’m full of shit.

          • thats good advice trekker, most people dont realize that these internet posts may be used against them in a court of law to prove anything from racism to an anti-government stance .
            but i think we should still speak our mind.
            it is STILL our right because Thomas Jefferson says so and a whole lotta Americans died to make sure it stayed that way. SO KEEP TYPING DAMMIT!

            • MEANWHILE ……. we need to find a way to apply the castle doctrine to drones.
              if i feel my life is in danger from a drone , can i shoot it ?
              i believe i can .

            • Howdy, hammerhead. I’m with you. I may be on lists going back to the Clinton era, but I don’t care. No one tells me what I can or cannot say about any particular subject. As I post this, I’m in a motel room in Branson, MO on vacation. This was my first time on a computer since yesterday and I see some troll posting under my name, I blew up. I had to get away from the computer for a few minutes to cool off. This POS just had to post under MY NAME! The audacity of the f#$%er! he makes Eisen look good. On the drones, this is another tool they will use against us eventually. I’ll say this again: NOTHING THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT DOES HAS ANY LEGITIMATE BASIS TO IT WHATSOEVER. IT’S THE SAME GOVERNMENT THAT TAKE PART OF THE FRUITS OF OUR LABOR IN TAXES AND BUYS ALL KINDS OF SHIT TO ONE DAY MAKE WAR AGAINST US ALL! I don’t care what policy they come up with. if these drones start attacking our own people, it will be game on! the original and true braveheart

              • @ Braveheart: Our job is to make those lists so big, they include the very same people who created them in the first place. If you’ve ever shopped at a Wally Mart. you ARE on the main list.

                Also, my question is, for the FAA who “thinks” they “control”, sorry, regulate airspace…WHY THE F ARE YOU ALLOWING CHEM-TRAILS AND FOR WHOM ARE YOU REALLY CONTROLLING THE SKIES??? YouFAA.gsa are indeed a Criminal double-speak organization and you are on MY list as such, not that I’m doing anything more about it other than expressing my freedom of speech to my friends and making a mental note.

                By their own admission and declaration of authority, the FAA is expressly taking 100% responsibility for regulating the POISON in OUR sky, the very air we breathe, and TERRORIZING US with TSA pat-downs, Corexit in the rainwater in the mid-Atlantic, exploding drones, radiation fall-out, loose missiles, low altitude helicopters, and terrified livestock to mention but a few genuine concerns.

                Thank you so much FAA for watching over US, making US sleep so well at night…Pricks! Fix it for US or we’ll be forced to fix it for you. Peace Y’all!

        • Fuck the faa. The.gov has done many things and we still ask. Them to stop.and did they no.so im on my way,and will buy a 50bmg..i will not comply and i will gun down all drone. Fuck u faa

        • Ok – here’s what I don’t get. A few days ago a couple of drones went down in Florida. There were large explosions that shut down a road. The news report said that if a drone leaves its planned flight path they have self destruct systems. So while everyone argues whether or not drones can fly over America being armed with missles are we forgetting that they are armed with bombs? Sorry to have been able to figure that out. Deer Trail people (just east of where I am in Denver) – please don’t forget to keep that little piece of information in your heads when discussing your law. What’s to stop a drone from being flown at about ten feet above your head and being self destructed just when it gets over you?


          • The crash in Florida was a remote control F-4 Phantom, as used for aerial target practice. Not a surveillance drone.

            • But a repurposed F-4 fighter is still drinking jet fuel and will still mess up your day if it winds up in your backyard.

      2. The Fourth Amendment to the U.S. Constitution:

        “The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.”

        It is not just our right, but our duty to defend the Constitution against all enemies, foreign and domestic. This violation of our rights under the color of law is the most cowardly act of voyeuristic treason of all since it is done from a distance and the safe confines of an operator’s room in a police station.

        If you can’t shoot the operator, shoot the drone.

        • WarriorClass III,

          Your comment reminded me of a recent change in a town nearby.

          Several weeks ago a ‘new policy’ was announced in the paper. The town has enacted an 11:00 p.m. curfew for all under age 18. After 11 p.m., all who are 17 or younger in a ‘public place’ must be with their parents.

          Some teens working at McDonalds or Wendys don’t get off work until after 11 p.m. What about those coming out from the movies on the weekends? The second show doesn’t end until after 11:00 p.m.?

          My husband pointed out that this could mean anyone that ‘looks 25 or younger’ could be stopped by police and asked to present ‘proof’ of their age.

          To my knowledge this town has never had a curfew before. I am uncomfortable about this ‘new policy’ and how it came about.

          Does this mean police can stop any car at night and request to see ID? They could say it was dark and they thought it was a teen driver.

          Have any other cities or towns made changes like this near where you live?

          • Interesting quandary — On one hand, honestly, it would be great if every kid under 18 had to be home by 11 p.m. There is NOTHING wrong with a curfew for kids — we need our kids to learn they don’t just get to do whatever they want whenever they want. Kids between 16 and 17 can’t drive by themselves where I live after 10 p.m., so it is NOT the end of the world if a kid went to the 7 p.m. movie instead of the 9 p.m. movie. It also makes for better parental accountability. However, as you say, there are exceptions to every rule like when a kid works. It would be interesting to make that phone call and speak to somebody about those exceptions, but make sure you get their names when you do.

            • insane – since when is the government responsible to MY better parenting?
              I’LL TELL EM WHEN TO BE HOME !
              its just more laws to entangle young folks in the system and scare them into compliance with unconstitutional laws. be aware .

              • Hammerhead, your points are well taken. I had a similar curfew on me as a teenager and it came from my parents, not government. I never had any kids, but if I did, I would’ve done the same thing to them and tell government THANKS, BUT NO THANKS! the orginal and true braveheart

                • While in the perfect world, parental parenting is what should be done, unfortunately, that is not the case in today’s America, and while you mouth “leave my parenting alone,” you are usually the first people to complain about somebody else’s kids being on the streets — so are you in agreement to leave the parenting of the kids who roam the streets to the parents? Do you ever whine about the police not doing something about the kids roaming the streets? Rules are rarely for the “best” of us, they are almost always for the “least” of us. How many laws have you seen made because some idiot does something, but not before that idiot does something? If America’s parents refuse to parent, and that also means standing up for your rights to parent, the government surely will.

          • Mom. If you check the law, it provides for work. Most town folk have such laws.

          • KY MOM:
            Yeah, I’m 68. The town I Live in had a curfew like that 55 friggen yeas ago. Kids didn’t rule then.

          • I was independent, living on my own and working my way through college at 17. A law like this would have made my life very difficult. I didn’t have a car and I walked everywhere I had to go. My parents were living 90 miles away.

            • Juvenile curfew laws have exceptions for returning home from work. They also have exceptions for returning home from a school function. Such as a late inning baseball game, the team bus arriving late etc. I don’t think this information will make a difference and your protest will change.

        • Well said! +1!

        • Besides, how is one to know that the flying object is “friendly”? Would this not fall under “stand your ground”?

          • Nothing that buzzes over my head, armed with the ability to blow up, is considered “friendly”.

        • Thats right WCIII . Never once have I or anyone I know asked our representatives in D.C. if they would please drone us . The F.A.A. can stuff it . They have no right to o.k. these drones . This police state we have will be the undoing of the U.S. government . People can be pushed just so far and I believe that push has nearly reached its end

      3. Had some black church members ring my doorbell here in the Dallas suburbs this morning wanting to preach to me about the Tayvon Martin Protest Movement. They asked my opinion about violence being the solution. My respons:

        “Well Ma’am as an Iraq Combat Veteran I learned that violence is never be my first option but it always the universal final option.”

        Let’s just say our conversation ended politely and quickly shortly after that.

        • “Well Ma’am as an Iraq Combat Veteran I learned that violence is never my first option but it is always the universal final option”

          Sorry I typed it wrong, didn’t mean to sound like I was speaking in ebonics lol

          • Get the name of that church and report them to the IRS and make them known to the community by name. What they are doing is contrary to sound Biblical teaching as well. God established the standard of every matter being settled by 2-3 witnesses. We have the eyewitness who called 911, we have the ear winess of Rachel Jeantel who, though friends with Martin testifies that he threw the first punch, and we have the forensic evidence which all backs up George Zimmerman’s side of the story. Absolutely nothing objective or measurable counters the verdict. Case closed.

            • Why didn’t poor little Trayvon go HOME in that 4 minutes?
              Because he followed George, snuck up on him, and sucker punched him. Zimmerman was doing what I would have done, neighborhood watch, except for the 911 part.
              Poor little Trayvon, was a gangsta thug, and got the justice he deserved.
              Too bad the judge didn’t allow in the pictures of his pot plants, his jewelry he stole, nor the gun he was holding.

              But, but, but, he was a ‘child’, at 6 ft and almost old enough to join the Army.

              Now they want to turn self defense against gangsta thugs, into a Federal civil rights violation? Looks like the thug’s ain’t just in Fl.
              What makes it worse, is the media bleeding all over the HNIC’s little fear rant. Bad portents here too, they’re starting a quiet war under the radar because their pres gave them an emotional justification.

          • @ Mclovin. It is a hot day, turn the hose on them, cool them off along with their attitudes on evading your privacy.

          • i wa laffing at yo ass mo fo!

        • Well, McLovin, you missed a great opportunity to turn the tables on the hypocrites.

          “First folks, let’s address this. Only monsters would shoot a 13-month-old baby in a stroller intentionally with its mama watching.
          Oh, you don’t want to talk about THAT murder??”

          • Crap jay jay,I fat thumbed the “red” my bad

          • “Okay…how about the 4 black barbarians that carjacked, raped, tortured, and mutilated a white couple in Knoxville?? They poured bleach down her throat to destroy DNA!!
            You still want to talk about Zimmerman??”

            • Or the hundreds of negros killed by negros in cities across the country, most of them mind you not by firearms!

            • What about my little 14 year old brother that was called a “cracker” by a passing carload of black thugs and told to get off the sidewalk. He of course gave them the 1 finger salute so they stopped, got out and shot him to death with a .45 cal. That makes me part of the great highly prepared legion of victims/victims families that know what is really happening. Pushback so far is quiet. I don’t know how long though. When the shtf, there is going to be a cleansing and culling of thugs that will bring peace to the masses again. The best part is that we will not have to go looking for them. They will come to us. That will be very convenient.

              • My god, Infidels-r-s,

                That is horrific. I am so sorry, and I am sorry for
                your loss. You just put out there another point of view.
                One that remains all too silent, sadly enough.
                Thank you for sharing this, I know that you did not do
                so lightly. My thoughts and prayers are
                to your fallen brother, yourself and your family.

                • @Emily

                  Thank you Emily. What happened to my brother is not an isolated incident. This is happening every day across the country. It is just not reported in detail by the media. Trayvon Martin wasn’t gunned down for being on a sidewalk. He was shot after violently attacking someone. A huge difference. Where is the national outrage over the white baby shot between the eyes in its stroller? Crickets again. Whites are wired to think through events and not go off the deep end and blame every member of the race that they think has wronged them. This is what keeps us from shooting black babies in their strollers. Unfortunately, I believe this situation is getting worse all the time. Lock and load. Don’t be a victim.

      4. Rest assured some bureaucratic feds will be visiting (unannounced) Mr Steel sometime soon..


        Either tax levies or imposed threat to family or kin will likely ensue…

        While I applaud his stand..these days OPSEC would be the prudent course..quietly….



        • Eisen,
          Quit screaming… please. You hurt my eyes.
          (even if you are right.)

          1984, It wasn’t supposed to be an instruction manual…

          • See , I dont mind the all caps at 53 . easy to read and doesnt hurt my ears or feelings a bit

            • LOL OLD MAN

              • it is the oddest thing that we get all in a dither over capital letters…what a weird society — WHAT A WEIRD SOCIETY!!!

                • Nah, I just pick on Eisen. Caps is an indication that he is not on his meds…

                  • They have meds to cure being an A-hoe???!!!

        • “Iron Cross” good one! I did hear you on the crapper with the fan on.

        • Eisen, I’m with you on that and I don’t even care about the caps this time. braveheart

          • Blow it out your ass alcoholic !

            • I just can’t seem to keep my fingers from reaching for this guys throat…be still keyboard…ah what the hell, here it goes!
              SHUTUP “Sour kraps”! Blow it out your own ass on your own time “Eyes is crusted”! “Ass n crust”…Stop wasting time picking on the intelligent ones trying to save the world one mind at a time and stick to picking your nose and those festering pimples on your prepubescent twig, it’s time for your nap and a diaper change. Come back when you’re old enough to drink without your sippy-cup, let alone contribute something mature, or at least when you are tall enough to ride the internet without mommy’s permission. BTW, that WAS as civil a comment as you can expect to receive when you jump on folks like Braveheart…you deserve much less courtesy “hype ‘n crap”…but maybe you just need some big brother(s) to help guide you along. I’ll give you that benefit of the doubt and leave the porch light on for you just in case. Just remember to knock before your curfew.

      6. Regulate maybe. Own, rule or totally control no. Sometimes shit happens and a drone falls from the sky.
        As judge Napolitano says, the first person that shoots down a drone will be considered a folk hero.

        • Please let it be me,,,

      7. “Let me say, to every creature in the world, on behalf of all humans, We’re sorry about Chris Matthews.”

      8. So what’s the best shot size for the little ones? #7? #4? #1?

        • Drones, or operators?

        • I think #2

        • 1.75oz BB nickel plated lead, wad that keeps shot tight, in a 3.5″ magnum load, 28″ bbl w full choke ported insert, kicks like hell but tight patterns out to 75yds and beyond.

      9. Arriving Gate 1, Gate 2, Gate 6… Blo up the autopilot to turn on. Joey, do you like movies about gladiators? concentrate… concentrate… I’ve got to concentrate… concentrate… concentrate… Hello?… hello… hello… Echo… echo… echo… Pinch hitting for Pedro Borbon… Manny Mota… Mota… Mota…

        • @TK
          WTF are you talking about. Lol

          • Ed you know Ted, when he’s got a snoot full of that hooch he’s liable to say anything. Trekker Out.

            • Either that or the heats got to him LOL!

              Semper Fi 8541

        • And don’t call me Shirley

          • Ok, Shirley!

          • I am shirley you jest. The tractor is green. The tractor is green. Drone: eieio.


          • this is toooooooooo all you “NIGHTSTALKERS” AUNT ERMA HAS A HOME COOKED MEAL!!!!!!!!!!!


        • @ Ted K. …..And they said ‘Sniffin GLUE’ was bad for ya!! I think makes you very FUNNY !!!……mm~

      10. This weeks ‘Finish The Song Lyrics Contest’ features the Hillbillies theme song. Get your entries in soon! And, Good Luck!

        Come and listen to my story ’bout a man named Steel,
        Small town councilman who’d finally had his fill,
        Then one day he was shootin’ at a drone,

        • And he thought he was all alone
          Til 3% showed up
          Chew tobacco, chew tobacco, chew tobacco spit

        • SmokinOkie…

          Come and listen to my story ’bout a man named Steel, Small town councilman who’d finally had his fill, Then one day he was shootin’ at a drone, __________________________
          but his libtard neighber got on his obama phone ….
          And now Steel is locked up in a female camp somewhere, or dead. No one has seen or heard from him since.

        • and two weeks later they were still findin bone. (fragments)

          • …..Then one day he was shootin’ at a drone,
            when down on the ground came a bubblin’ groan

        • Come and listen to my story ’bout a man named Steel,
          Small town councilman who’d finally had his fill,
          Then one day he was shootin’ at a drone,
          And due to all the cowards, he’s in his cell alone!!!

        • Texted fuck you NSA on his phone

          • That’s the winner. Funny!

        • And along came a HellFire missile and blew up his HOME!!…..mm~

      11. @ everybody
        I need help figuring out the name of this TV show.
        It’s set in someplace I think must be another dimension or something. It kind of reminds me of planet of the apes.
        Anyway the plot seems to change erratically but in essence these creatures take over a country and start trying to control the humans. They have mostly succeeded except a handful of people who aren’t falling for their crap.
        The real humans are sent off to fight other humans so the whole gets to watch. Kind of like the gladiators and Christians. While those humans are away the creatures start bringing in other creatures that look like them and give them all the priviliges and protections. These creatures can do anything they want while the real humans do all the work.
        In the last episode one of creatures gets killed by a real human. In Roman times the slave got to go free. But in this case they won’t let him go free. All the creatures are so pissed off that one the slaves has successfully defended himself that they start hunting down the humans in big hunting parties called rallies. I am pretty sure this episode is to be continued.
        I don’t watch much TV but when I do it’s on most channels, it’s also on the internet you almost can’t get away from it.
        I just don’t get it, one of the main characters the one in charge of the creatures is such an idiot and terrible actor he has to read his lines in the script off a teleprompter.
        I haven’t seen any indication of future episodes but I bet it doesn’t end well for the real humans.
        Anyway can someone help me out with any of this?

        • Never heard of it, but you have me intrigued.

        • Obamaloution?

          Semper Fi 8541

        • Try “Defiance” on SyFy

      12. Well, I couldn’t care less about the drones themselves if they get brought down. Mind you, I’m Canadian so it is unlikely US drones will be over my backyard.

        But my concern comes from where the domes would come to fall. It is one thing to “ambush” them on their take-off or landing paths, where they would be low to the ground and slower and over an area where crashes would be safer for the public. But it is an other entirely to engage them while “on station”, over places where a falling air asset could cause real damage and casualties. And should these drones be armed, I’m see most people wouldn’t care for having ordnance falling from the skies.

        • “ordnance” shouldn’t be up there flying around in the first place.

      13. ~~~A drone “hit by gunfire could crash, CAUSING DAMAGE TO PERSONS OR PROPERTY ON THE GROUND”~~~

        OMG; think about that brothers and sister!!!

        who would have thought it–drones INTENT isn’t to cause damage to persons or property on the ground??

        Oh, that’s right; it’s okay to kill or maim innocent children in OTHR countries.

        • Don’t know about you but I wouldn’t be too keen on the neighbour gunning down a Predator and having it fall on my house.

          • I want one I want one to hang on my wall be the envy of all my friends that just have an old animal head hanging on theirs hell that might be a new business to get into trading deer heads for downed drones……………..


          • If one of those little surveillance drones falling on your roof causes that much damage, it was probably time for a new roof anyway. I’d have to retrieve the neighbor’s trophy for him though, couldn’t have him tromping around up there unattended.

          • out here it’s just gonna plunk down in the desert. aliens musta done it.

      14. I dont need the government telling me when to water or anything else so if they would kindly keep their nose out of my business i would personally thank them but if they cannot then they will have to read the sign at the end of the road ( IT SAYS PRIVATE PROPERTY I DO NONT NEED WHAT EVER YOU ARE SELLING OR AM I INTERESTED IN WHAT EVER YOUR BUSINESS IS. PLEASE STAY OUT THIS IS A WARNING CASTLE DOCTRINE IS ENFORCED thank you and go away i believe this is well stated

      15. Just got a new 8 week old “labradoodle” Help with names? My daughter thinks his name should be Watson…. I like Ted Kennedy but that’s too long…

        • How about “Rex” after the curly cats?

          • Wrong

            Sounds like a classy dog
            I like Parker— short for the Top of the Park Place

            • My last dog, a Golden was named Dune. Was building a home across from the dune climb when he was a pup. Lost him for a couple hours cause he blended in so well. He died a couple months ago.

              I haven’t been to the Top of the Park in 20 yrs!!!

              • Wrong—that’s neat

                My family owned the dune rides as well as the climb. Name me a time and place for coffee, anywhere. I’ll
                know it.

                • Randy’s Dinner Monday 7AM ?

                  • Yup

        • Jonas

          After Jonas Clark

        • Watson or T K sounds pretty good to me. I love the interesting names people give to their dogs. My favorite all-time name, and favorite dog, was Measley.
          He was ugly, stupid, lazy, cunning,… come to think of it, he’d have made a great politician.
          Measley came as a set of pups, with his sister. She grew up to be smart, obedient, loyal, protective and a beautiful dog.
          Measley…well, he had the morals of Bill Clinton, the loyalty of Hillary, the brains of Joe Biden and the looks of Pelosi. Yep, ole Measley missed his calling in life for sure. Should have been a US Senator!
          We have four dogs now (at last census anyway). I can never remember their names. I just step out on the porch and say ‘Where’s that mangy worthless mutt?’ and they all come running.
          Good luck with your pup, wrong. And get lots of pictures of the daughter playing with him….sweet memories in the making…

          • I did pug breeding for a few years. I named my first male, Colonel Studd Muffin.

          • as usual, SO nails it

            • I named my pit “Bone head” because he liked to head-butt people, and the dog always walked away.

          • I deem said dog……. Braveheart.

        • Named my black Lab Ruger after my mini 30

        • @ wrong…….How bout Mile- Amore ?? (he’ll run a mile or more to lick yer boot!!)

        • Sherlock… as in no shit Sherlock.

        • How about Drone!

        • Watson sounds good…I like to give dogs one syllable names that no one else does. My dog is named Frank. It don’t take a lot of effort to yell for him when he wanders off. I’m mostly about minimum effort.

        • Bob Barker!!!

        • I’d call him Bastard, then you can run around your neighborhood yelling Come here you Bastard, or something like that.

        • @Wrong…..congratulations on the new addition to your family! Recon, Rebel, Ranger, Tango, Gus…….

          Regarding the drones: In the 70’s the radar detector Fuzzbuster was invented. Perhaps some techie can develop the Drone Zapper…..maybe antennas around your property sending out electrical signals to disable? I think it would be a great infomercial on TV…..


        • We are planning to get 2 German Shepherds – a male and a female to keep an eye on things for us – one we’ll name Liberty (call her Libby) and the male we’ll name Rebel, (call him Reb)

      16. How tasty are them there drones? kin ya make liquor from em?

        • Jim

          Probably not.
          But you might be able to make liquor in them. lol
          Old Drone Buster NO. 7, 100 proof.

      17. pretty sad what America has evolved to.

        • Promo,

          Sorry that red thumb was my accident. Android keyboard and fat fingers don’t mix.

          • Your apology is accepted, YH. ponomo—poor no more…
            I am still looking for my first oil/gas royalty check–maybe before the end of the year. SHTF is a damn good website!

          • Your apology is accepted, YH. ponomo—poor no more…
            I am still looking for my first oil/gas royalty check–maybe before the end of the year. SHTF is a damn good website!

      18. So they use them to figure out what crops need watering? So why they fly them during a drought? You don’t need to be a rocket/drone scientist to figure that one out. Fucking water them all. Tracking seals? Sounds like more bullshitfrom the Feds to justify their use/existence. What I shot one down??? Never happened!!! B SAFE OUT THERE

        • @ Sick o. i all…….Me ,talkin to a Fed Agent in a field near my house ; ” Drone!?? I thought that was one of those new breed of SKITTERS ,we been hearin about!!”…….mm~

      19. article 1, section 8, clause 17 of the constitution says Congress shall have the power;

        To exercise exclusive Legislation in all Cases whatsoever, over such District (not exceeding ten Miles square) as may, by Cession of particular States, and the acceptance of Congress, become the Seat of the Government of the United States, and to exercise like Authority over all Places purchased by the Consent of the Legislature of the State in which the Same shall be, for the Erection of Forts, Magazines, Arsenals, dock-Yards, and other needful Buildings;

        in other words, keep your shitting dog (drones) off my lawn bitches or i’ll shoot the bastard. until Congress purchases MY property, then, and only then can the federal asswipes do what they wish on it.

      20. The FAA has now placed every peeping tom drone in America’s scope reticle. They just had to make a press release didn’t they. Well at least now we’ll have something fun to do when the dollar collapses and the power goes out 🙂

      21. For the people concerned about falling debris, these things weigh in ounces. Only the very large ones come in a pound or two. You’d be worse off being hit by a bird!
        Standing ready in Daytona

        • Predator general specs.
          Primary Function: Armed reconnaissance, airborne surveillance, and target acquisition
          Contractor: General Atomics Aeronautical Systems Inc.
          Power Plant: Rotax 914F four-cylinder engine
          Thrust: 115 horsepower
          Wingspan: 55 feet (16.8 meters)
          Length: 27 feet (8.22 meters)
          Height: 6.9 feet (2.1 meters)
          Weight: 1,130 pounds ( 512 kilograms) empty
          Maximum takeoff weight: 2,250 pounds (1,020 kilograms)
          Fuel Capacity: 665 pounds (100 gallons)
          Payload: 450 pounds (204 kilograms)
          Speed: Cruise speed around 84 mph (70 knots), up to 135 mph
          Range: Up to 770 miles (675 nautical miles)
          Ceiling: Up to 25,000 feet (7,620 meters)
          Armament: Two laser-guided AGM-114 Hellfire missiles
          Crew (remote): Two (pilot and sensor operator)
          Unit Cost: $20 million (includes four aircraft with sensors, ground control station and Predator Primary satellite link) (fiscal 2009 dollars)

          • “If you look at the capabilities, there are small, quad helicopters and rotor helicopters that can be fitted with a camera and fit in the palm of your hand,” Lauscher told TechNewsDaily. “They go all the way up [in size] to a Global Hawk,” which is a relatively large military drone.
            They look like mosquitoes and small flies, about the size of a pencil head. They are the newest trend in drones being developed by scientists working for the military industrial complex.
            U.S. government to use ‘drones the size of GOLF BALLS to spy on AMERICAN citizens’

            I didn’t give the links..moderation ya know.

          • kula, they ain’t gonna be putting $30,000 drones over out back yards, at least not for spying purposes. The drones you provided stats for, if I’m not mistaken, are combat drones, not the little buzzers used to peek into windows.

            Using a predator drone to peek in windows would be expensive and much like swatting flies with a grenade launcher.

            • @sixpack – Not true….they are going to use what ever they get their hands on…especially the biggest drones. “Sequester” does not apply to shadow budgets. They are not shaving pennies as they have no accountability. They are already flying regular rounds where I live and they even circle my garden from time to time with helicopters. Pricks. The drones are scary on purpose… they are big, from the F-4 type, full blown aircraft to space shuttle V-winged drones, the goofy dolphin looking ones, even those that look like a minuteman missile…they are intimidating to hear and see…they sound like anything from a large weed-eater to a regular low and slow Cessna, or a micro-jet blasting at treetop level. By the time you hear them and can scramble outside to investigate they are usually already heading out of range. They are armed to the gills and they are watching us scratch our asses from miles away. I’ve witnessed the humming bird and Fly/Bee Hybrid insect drones as well… those really piss me off because they mingle with all the other crazy wildlife and I’m tired of double-taking every fly or stinkbug that lands near my coffee cup. Psychologically speaking this is quite an operation! They are also illegal as any sick bird (ill-eagle) knows, back to the 4th and 5th Amendments…and today is as good as any day to feed the worms and buzzards. Unfortunately they are expecting us to be the main course. The Drone War is being waged on US already…most people never pay any attention to where they place their feet, or set their assets, let alone “Look Up”

      22. The second amendment was ment to fight tyranny , I’m just wondering what’s taking so long and when the party starts

        • VRF,

          Just waiting for the blue helmets to arrive. If I see foreign troops on US soil, they will not be long of this earth. Believe it.

      23. not suprised, the govt knows it owns enough of the people by dependency now that it doesnt even worry about those that believe they still live in the land of freedom and liberty.

        the USA as it was founded is over. cant remember the old saying exactly but it goes something like all thats needed for evil to prevail is for good men to do nothing. well, for over 40 years now, enough good people have done nothing while the govt has taken your freedoms away, bit by bit. when Texas flips to democrat in 2016 or 2020; thats the final nail as i see no way the democratic leadership turns back from the direction it has been going of greater control over the people.

        you, your children and your grand children can expect the new USA to emerge as a class system where there will be no economic movement of people, most likely children will be assigned to their career paths by the time theyre 16, medicines and surgeries will only be available if approved and the groups you belong to will be monitored. your church or regular hunting trip with your buddies will be subject to what is approved by the govt.

        you will still have iphones, be able to buy a corvette; but finding a church that abides by the true and not an approved bible may be impossible. welcome to the 21st century version of life as a serf.

      24. “I have a dream.” – MLK
        “I have a drone.” – Obama

        Gun show, July 27 and 28, Douglas County Fairgrounds, Castlerock, Colorado.

        • “I have a dream.” – MLK
          “I have a drone.” – Obama
          “I have had enough!- REB

        • ScoutMotto,Everybody that goes should take a hand full of HiCap Mags and sell to each other. And what ever happened to the big armed march in DC on the 4th, never heard anything about it. Trekker Out.

      25. I think if we want to get serious about thinning the drone population we have to do it right. The old reliable scatter gun isn’t going to do shit to a UAV that is flying at altitude anywhere from 2,000 ft (hand deployed) to 30,000ft (HALE design). You can identify the smaller shorter range drones from the ground because of their altitude limitations, but no so much on the tactical drones that are flying 18k+. So the first challenge becomes identifying the presence of a drone or drones. Next is neutralizing the threat. You can pretty much rule out ground to air incendiary or explosive. You wont get very many of those off of the ground before your ass is grass. I prefer a reusable, field deployed device. Who’s got ideas? I’m thinking a focused EMP device, or some type of focused microwave. All it would really take would be a minute or so of lack of communication between pilot and craft, so maybe a focused jamming device? The device must work in an untraceable manner, that way it would seem to the pilot that the drone simply malfunctioned and fell from the sky. They view drones as sensitively as they do comsec, so even when you crash it they WILL come for it, and they don’t send pushovers after things like that. The unit I used to belong to would roll deep and fast for a crashed drone. This is all “theoretical” here so feel free to chime in with some good ideas. Ive put a little bit of thought into this subject but each one of my ideas seem like they would require too much energy to operate.

        • SPARK GAP RADIO! 🙂

        • Ender,
          Anybody know anybody with any laser expertise?

          • Just so happens that I know someone who is a tech/designer/builder for Spectra Physics. What are you thinking?

            • a new kind of jet powered airship that runs on HHO, w/gyro stabilized weapons platforms, remotely controlled or piloted. Add a simple juiced up marine radar for target acquisition.
              Unfortunately, such things require money. But the airship concept puts up a platform that can remain up there almost permanently and fast enough to overcome any winds.
              Maybe something cheap enough, done by entrepreneurs instead of states or gov contractors, that states would be interested?
              It could also have other uses in transportation distribution for alternative economic systems, and if any shtf, bypassing checkpoints and roadblocks. I think it can be made in a single seat personal model. (But, you see, any such thing you would try to make now, would be shut down by regulators, insurance, and lawyers. I know…so they would have to be made not for sale to the general public…)

              PS: I’m not sure that any jamming approach would work at the altitudes and distances these things fly, and the distribution of them is too spread out. a microwave gun might work if you could get within range, a coil gun or a laser would for sure knock it down…
              At the end of the day, individuals will have to make preparations for operating within infrared covers, and drone killers would probably only be useful in covering an AO.

              • I’m liking the laser idea. I don’t know how much energy it would take to operate a laser powerful enough to roast a drone, but the range issue would be no problem. It would also be easy to aim, and easy to deploy. I doubt IR would work, and the wavelength would probably be in the visual spectrum, so you have detection to worry about. This would be much more of a problem at night and that would probably be the best time to be drone hunting, you know, lights and such. This system wouldn’t be as much $$ as the airship, but would definitely take a leg.

      26. Amerika post Bush and Obama — Not even in my wildest dreams.

      27. “Shooting an unmanned craft could result in criminal or civil liability”???

        Say WHAAAAAAAAAT???

        Since LAUNCHING an unmanned drone shoots DOWN the U.S. CONSTITUTION for which our forbears gave their VERY LIVES– said Constitution being a CODIFICATION of the rights GOD has GIVEN to His children– then SHOOTING DOWN a drone can only be a first step in RESTORING the United States Constitution, and RESTORING the rights it protects.

        The Constitution is therefore a PRO-human document, whereas drones are exclusively weapons of DEATH– they are Weaponized to destroy us and our children and other loved ones (that is their ultimate purpose) and while up in our (formerly) free sky they signify the dying of our Constitution.

        You just can’t protect Liberty, while destroying the Constitution, at the same time!

        We are called to DEFEND and PROTECT Human Life, NOT be COMPLICIT in its DESTRUCTION through drones = SATAN’s Wings!

        Our law enforcement agencies such as our local Police are good enough to keep us safe, thank you anyway, you patriarchal condescending buttheads.

        And since Congress and the Senate lack the BALLS to get rid of drones and Restore what is left of our Constitution, then I guess they are leaving the job to US!

        Besides, the REAL reason for drones is to give the antichrist yet ANOTHER weapon to kill/annihilate/destroy human beings, since our government has apparently handed over all its security and surveillance apparatus over to the destroyers.

        My friends, is there not ONE honest, decent, GOD-fearing NSA employee LEFT?

        Was Edward Snowden the LAST of those Mohicans, the LAST to warn us of NSA-Net? And isn’t a “Net” for trapping and taking away a thing, or in this case, for EXTERMINATING a PERSON’s life?

        “Those who make PEACEFUL revolution IMPOSSIBLE make VIOLENT revolution INEVITABLE.” – President John F. Kennedy

        “Those who would sacrifice their liberty for security deserve neither.” – Thomas Jefferson

        “One person who speaks the truth constitutes a majority of one.” – Henry David Thoreau

        “It is no secret that evil is LIVE spelled BACKWARDS.” – M. Scott Peck, M.D.

        “Whenever you have eliminated the impossible, whatever is left, HOWEVERimprobable, MUST be the truth.” – Sherlock Holmes (written by Sir Arthur Conan Doyle)

        “Truth NEVER damages a cause that is Just.” – Gandhi

        – The Lone Ranger

        • Lone Ranger

          I think the Patriots of 1776 would have had a hard
          time bringing down a drone with a musket ball, but
          I damn well believe they would have given it their
          best shot though, no doubt about it in my mind.

          • AMEN, OutWest!

            The whole history of humankind as well as Sun Tzu’s classic treatise, “The Art of War” underscore the following truth: the way you DEFEAT your opponent is to OUT THINK them!

            If that were NOT true, then humanity would have already been totally enslaved centuries ago.

            Thank you, OutWest, for your comment.

            Lone Ranger

      28. Maybe they should regulate that no drones can fly over that area. Then if it does get knocked down it would be the operator who hurts people on the ground. Regulations can take different routes. It seems like the regulations are always directed at we the people.
        Seems to me if someone is going to spend the money on a drone they should read the hunting regulations before they fly wherever they want.

      29. It’s off-topic, I know. But in this video, you can see some Sunday cyclists who suddenly become Tour de France winners, even against their will…”I am not a part of your race!”. Sometimes, a little comic relief is necessary in this crazy world.


      30. WRONG Federal Asshole Agency! You think you control the sky, but we control you! Now all you have gone and done is make me want to take one out even more.

      31. WRONG Federal Asshole Agency! You think you control the sky, but we control you! Now all you have gone and done is make me want to take one out even more.

      32. “I have a dream.” – MLK
        “I have a drone.” – Obama
        “I have a gun.” – Glenn
        Liked you comment Scoutmotto, Hope you dont mind the ad on. its just me.

        All these comments are great!!!! All for one and one for all? who said that? Zoro? Robin Hood?

        • Wasn’t it the three Musketteers?

      33. You guys know those drones have 50 ounces of silver and ten ounces of gold in them, so be sure and call the authorities if you find one.

      34. Anyone got a good article for mixed marriages surviving race wars? Thanks alot Obama!

      35. Just put spark gap generators on all the roof tops. the radio interference will cause them to lose control of any drone flying over the area. Military drones are set up to self destruct if the operator loses control. If the Iranians can successfully hack a drone and control it , some of us should be able to . If it has missles, there are plenty of .gov targets.

      36. This drones over America crap is the evil government plan to take out all dissidents who are against the new world order, at least the ones who are not afraid to speak up to the tyranny from the usurpers of our constitutional freedoms. The maggot Kissinger said all who don’t accept NWO are terrorists. We are well aware who the real terrorists are.

      37. Whilst pondering the months, possibly years ahead, what shall a meddlesome “felony” matter – considering the thousands of people willing to commit those, which will make this idle threat appear meaningless? 😕

      38. OK, let me ask you: How many hunters are killed a year by shooters who think they saw a deer?

        OK, how many shooters can tell the difference at aerial distance between a Cessna 150 and a Predator?

        Think folks.

        ‘Nuff said

        • old radio nut:

          The other day I gave Piper a thumbs up for the best comment of the year. Now I give you a thumbs down for the dumbest.

          • You doing me again?
            Which comment would that be?
            You didn’t reply in the proper thread context, so its hard to understand where you’re coming from.

        • Old radio nut. These people are a cross between Yosemite Sam and dead eye pete. They have dreams and visions that never include doing anything stupid. In the world of big hat no cattle, they will not and cannot make a mistake. They will shoot drones and only drones from the wild blue sky. They will never shoot anyone at a gun show accidentally. They will never have a kid die from their mistakes. They will never do anything because they well….type on computers and never go outside. They are awesome at pointing out the man in the arena’s miscues. They have a community lead by bravefart. The man in the chair behind the curtain. The leader who scrolls through reams of data and uses computer characters for curse words. The bravefart who doesn’t have a woman but can get one whenever he wants.

      39. Posted a comment at 4:09 it is now 7:08 what is up with this? No more comments from me! I have posted before. I will read and stay informed. Thanks

        Fuck Moderation its a gimmick.

      40. Sorry for the delay. As you know, it’s Saturday, so the moderation team members have been busy away from their computers today.

        If you include an email address (a fake one is fine) that will help the moderation program to recognize you and to clear your comments automatically.

        Best wishes from SHTFplan!

        • SHTFplan people with a life — now THAT’S funny!

      41. Shucks, i already have mine skinned, hanged and drying. Hope they don,t get to upset.

      42. blacks can start riots but u can’t get a drone whats up wit that?

      43. What do you get when you add;
        -30,000 drones w/lookdown and Infrared capability, all feeding their data back to the largest data storage plant ever conceived.
        -NSA electronic surveillance of all ‘meta’ data, emails, web searchs, etc.
        -Medical records of all ‘comrades’.
        -online bank accounts of everybody too.

        Sad, as I said before, 1984 wasn’t supposed to be an instruction manual. These bastards, will make Big Brother look like an amateur.

        You will get a complete virtual world, with history. What can you do with that history? Track where you’ve been in the real world, who you’ve talked to, who you are, how well heeled and healthy or not.

        A few years ago… forget when… there was a project Uncle Sam wanted, project Gorgon stare. The capability to record and store many square miles of movement data. When combined with electronic meta data, they will also know all your friends, anybody you’ve talked or emailed to, and your web traffic by IP, which gives them your location. You’re done, and, all those in YOUR network. They are creating the capability to roll up whole groups, and simple turn them OFF.

        Now, when dealing with Nazi’s, the MOO’s are screwed. They will track you back in history, from whenever an ‘event’ happens. Surround your area, cut off your food and gas, and turn your neighbors against you.

        And we don’t want to organize for economic independence?
        We’re idiots…
        The only way to organize without agents, is to do what they do, create a conspiracy, a joke, haha, that’s funny.
        We’ve been laughing at ‘conspiracy’ theories for years, looks like the jokes on us.

        • Sooooo
          What your saying is we are quickly coming to the point where
          we have nothing left to lose and so may as well go for broke!

          • Kula,
            Even though many of us know the time has come, it wouldn’t go well for us to go into war mode yet. Shooting down drones is just dumb…

            But, yes, what better way to fight a bad conspiracy than with a good conspiracy? You cannot fight a strategy with tactics.
            Those who are intellectually challenged, and want to continue in the game of checkers, don’t understand chess, and they will lose. They think the gov is dumb, but there is one thing the gov does that is intelligently done, controlling US.

            • So what do you propose Piper?

              • What did the Founders do?
                They created something called the Committees of Correspondence…

                They had the same issues in their day.
                We must form trust networks, through friends of friends. I already know some here, whom I would trust with my life, simply by knowing them online for a long time, they have proven their character. And I know they would not trust anybody who hasn’t.

                From tiny acorns, great oak trees come forth.

                • My location is SW Utah. Anybody near me that would like to link arms?

                  • WE are already doing it here, are we not?
                    Do you not have friends in Utah? Do they not have friends? This is what we are already doing, I just put a name on it…
                    and propose that it become more widespread, as talk spreads. Only it should be done before shtf, not after. After, will be too late, how will you trust anybody then?

      44. My friends,

        I recognize what I am about to say is related to the July 11th posting on burning down nonminority suburbs and therefore ‘off-topic’…

        But do you remember the picture of the man that Mac put up there accompanying Mac’s July 11th article?

        If I did not know any better, I’d say that picture bears a STRIKING resemblance to the actor Jamie Fox POSING as the person he was identified as, with a little bit of make-up to age him a bit..

        Of course I could be wrong but I googled Jamie Fox and looked at his features and a LOT of his facial characteristics (ears and nose) SEEM to match.

        Is this the nwo trying to manipulate us and get us all stirred up so for no reason a (nonneeded) race war starts?

        Let me know what you think once you look at Jamie Fox’s pictures, especially regarding the ears and the nose.

        Thank you for letting me deviate a bit from this topic!

        – The Lone Ranger

        • Lone Ranger, I looked at the kook in the article and Jamie Foxx’s pictures and they DO look a lot alike. Could be related. I wouldn’t be surprised. they both have the same mentality. braveheart

      45. I’ve just about had enough. Google Earth, Street View, Drones, Infrared, Satellite with heat sensors….It’s all too much. So….

        I am going to get me one of those rockets, a space suit from the Gemini project and good ole 36 inch Louisville Slugger.

        After I reach Geosynchronous orbit, I’m going to whack the hell out of each and every navigation and communication satellite antennae I can find with my favorite bat and silently watch all those goddamn*ed drones fall out of the sky one by one.

        The last thing those “analysts” are going to see is the label of my Louisville slugger shattering those cameras.

        It will take me a few orbits and a few space walks but what the hell, it’s only the 4th amendment I’m defending. Not like it’s oil or anything important like that.

        • I almost laughed myself hoarse to this comment.

      46. Be Informed, I will never understand the mindset of these people any more than you or the other good people on this site. I usually handle the trolls fairly well, but this one in particular took the cake and the whole bakery along with it. As I said earlier, I had to get away from my netbook for a few minutes to cool off. When I came back, I let the troll know in no uncertain terms about his sin. There’s no common sense in this country anymore, except in rural areas. unless you come across a rare exception like me, it is most certainly not found in any major urban areas. I’ve been thru personal SHTFs for my whole life and came out of each and every one of them smelling like a rose. I dread what’s coming when the REAL MEGA SHTF hits. Still prepping for it and hope everyone else is too. braveheart

        • You need a nice stiff piece of ass son !

          • But not one from his son.

            • Troll, go f#$% yourself! I can get a woman if I want one; not so sure about you. THE ORIGINAL AND TRUE BRAVEHEART

          • Are you offering me something?

        • I have said this before. Brave- don’t get so angry about someone messing with you on a computer. If you have to get up and walk away, maybe you need to take a longer break. People screw with you because it is fun. Kind of like ringing the old mans doorbell late at night and then hiding nearby. If he comes out and screams into the night then he becomes sport.
          Think about you obit. “Old man dies of getting fucked with”. Or the headline “troll wins old guy dies of mind fucking”.

          • Grippentrog, thanks for the concern. I got away from the computer so it wouldn’t get thrown against a wall. I think I’ve become more sensitive since the 2 home invasion attempts back in May. I’ve been on razor’s edge since Sandy Hook. We all know what’s coming to this land and that’s not going to be a game. braveheart

            • Braveheart. Eisen said it best. Blow it out your ass alcoholic. Your colostomy bag is a huge hindrance when it comes to chicks. Some can get past your wheelchair. Memphis is a fun place but you calling 900 numbers is not most people’s idea of a date. Stand back from the notebook and go outside. It’s a wonderful world and great city you live in. I changed my name slightly. I was going to go with bravefart but didn’t want to be responsible for your stroke.
              You are a fun old dude and I hope to joust with you for a long time.

      47. The reason why we WILL have a war is because these clowns (government) project their own cowardice onto everyone else. With any edict from the clowns (government) and automatically they assume that we MUST comply. They have no idea that some people are INDIVIDUALS and not just cogs in the collectivist machine.

        The pace of their tyranny has increased DRAMATICALLY since the election – as has their hate-filled rhetoric. Not a day has gone by since the inauguration where our liberty has not been assaulted. We are very patient, but we are not cowards.

        They have mistaken our patience for cowardice and that will be their undoing. It is our sacred DUTY to resist these petty tyrants at every turn – we all know this and we don’t have to be told – it is just who we are.

        Let them fire the first shot but once it starts, let us not rest until the Republic is restored.

        Those who don’t fear God, respect the law, or respect the inalienable rights of others – understand clearly the sound of a round being chambered.

        Keep the FAITH

      48. Beer? I want to buy that cop a job.

      49. I am first and foremost an American. I have willingly fought on foreign battlefields for this nation. Today, I find my beloved country in the worst shape I can remember. Not because of the actions of my fellow citizens, whose labor and industry have held us so far, but by politicians who seek to gain and hold power, through redistribution of wealth through political favors, and in the name of compassion to those who do not have the gumption to work. The government has destroyed the wealth of this nation by allowing the Federal Reserve to print and place massive amounts of currency into circulation, thus destroying the value of the United States Dollar. The policies of Republicans and Democrats alike have left this nation on the verge of financial collapse and ruins. The policies of both parties but primarily Democrats have left the poor of this nation to become dependent clients of the state, with enough to get by and with no hope for prosperity. The politicians of this nation have devalued our citizenship by allowing unfettered immigration at the economic expense of its own citizens. The politicians of this nation have entered into treaties that have placed this nation at distinct disadvantage, which have threatened the livelihood of all our people. The list is long and continuous, but in short the politicians and the government have ignored the constitution by failing to secure our rights and failing to act in the best interest of our people.
        Now comes this new administration continuing the trends of the previous governments, at an accelerated pace. Knowing that the American People are resistant additional taxes for the operation of an already bloated government, this new administration sends out hoards of political operatives and organizers to make sure I support the president’s plans to confiscate more cash and obligate the American People to more debt. Using political operatives in door to door canvassing is the same tactic used historically by the Soviet communists and the Nazi Party and by third world dictators today. This new government seeks to further bind us to massive amounts of debt, to pay for the support of new government offices, commissions and programs. These programs do nothing but enslave our weakest, by reinforcing their dependency on the government for all their needs. All this comes with a bill to be paid by the common citizen, the working men and women of this nation.
        We, here in this country, seek to be left alone with minimum interference from any government. We seek relief from the confiscation of our wealth to support the special interests of the politician. If the American people continue to be pushed by a government that has no restraint, a revolution is inevitable. I for one have felt this coming and have reluctantly accepted the fact that the future of America may indeed see another civil war, another American Revolution. Although I pray to the Most High God that this never occurs, I can most assure you that I am prepared today, with arms, and more importantly with an attitude and demeanor in the tradition of the Americans at Lexington and Concord, who resisted and overthrew the British at Lexington, Concord, and fields all over the colonies. The tyranny that existed in 1775 is replicated today. While it is my hope and prayer that this shall not come to pass, I am, and many others are prepared for the worse. (1132)

        Keep the FAITH

        • @watchman
          My brother, I am with you. May we stand side by side on the battlefield and know and learn each other as we re-claim this wonderful land as our own.

        • Watchman,
          I cannot see how anybody can thumbs down that wonderful sentiment. As a fellow vet, I have fought for that ‘old piece of paper’ as well, yet, I have now come to see its flaw.
          Those who say it isn’t flawed, do not learn from history, and the fact that when you give your power to another man, to ‘represent’ you, you have lost control.
          God didn’t want us to have kings, yet we demanded a ‘King to rule over us’. It doesn’t matter if you call it king or president, no matter what chains or ropes or constitutions you put upon central power, if you give them a pen and paper, they will usurp what isn’t theirs, always.
          If power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely, then centralized power corrupts whole nations, eventually and always. This should be our lesson. That it is impossible to fix as long as we insist that power be centralized.
          I do agree that the Last Great Experiment in men governing man, was the best that could be crafted by men, but is now a righteous demonstration of the first premise; That men cannot govern man.

          Let us not stand upon Lexington’s green again, only to restore that which cannot be, because after the war is done, and evil is defeated, we will demand a debate. Those of us who will never submit to another centralized authority other than God Himself, and that is the lesson of history.

          We had our shot, and we blew it, we allowed evil to succeed by doing nothing. We trusted the Best System on Earth, and laid down on the altar of liberty and took a nap.
          I have found through many conversations, that it is not ‘The Constitution’ that the common man loves or appreciates, but, the Bill of Rights and the concept of equality under law. That is what we have lost by the encroachments of the Rich. And make no mistake, it is the rich men and bankers that have destroyed us with their concept of ‘short’ money, and money is The only Power that matters.

          Old thinking will not fix old problems. What is lost is never regained, history proves that this constitution is done, and will be buried. It saddens me to say it, but money and power is what destroyed us, and that can never be allowed to happen again. We overthrew an aristocracy of royalty only to allow an aristocracy of money to take its place. Those who wish to restore that abomination, will find themselves being fought after the fight. After Washington becomes totally fascist, there won’t be many left willing to restore any power to Washington or NY.

          Any revolution has post revolutionary problems, counter revolutionaries, and infighting. Does the Whiskey Rebellion ring a bell? There were a few other rebellions too, I forget, point being, the collective right and left is the enemy, France is our clue, look what happened after their revolution. I will not fight to overthrow the Collective Left, only to go back to being under a Collective Right. An immoral tyranny is almost as bad as being under a ‘moral’ tyranny. In this regard the Southern Confederacy had it almost right, since individual freedom was raised to the level of holy writ.

          This is why I have tried to hold that conversation before any hostilities, only to be rebuffed. Good luck to us all, there won’t be much of that afterwards. Because we, are stuck in the past, and will brook no debate about it, we cannot even agree that the Sun will come up tomorrow.

          • Civil war II?
            The South Must rise again, if only to keep the Yankee power brokers from coming to power again. Only this time, no more centralized banks, money or power. Here is a secular message, of why, boiled down to details. I have followed V and Jim Willie for some time, and they both have the details right, but the solution wrong. We cannot fix evil, it can only be destroyed.

            The Piper
            V – The Guerrilla Economist Updates
            The Gangs of New York -7/19/13

            As I began this new week and scanned the horizon of propaganda being passed these days as “news” and information. I stumbled onto a Bloomberg.com story on my Smart Phone that talked about a “financial recovery” and a positive looking employment numbers. I began to gander what country and on what planet are they referring to? Hmmm…lets put this straight. The Dollar is being summarily killed off as the apex currency of the world, our national debt counting entitlements like social security, Medicaid and the like are a whopping $67 trillion. According to the BIS (Bank of International Settlements, the central bank of all central banks) the world wide derivative debt bubble is hovering in the neighborhood of $640 trillion. Unemployment is sitting at a real 20% + as the government numbers do not count you once your passed the three month stage or if your underemployed; meaning, that you were full time but now can only find part-time work. So the question becomes, who the heck is recovering?

            Just a few weeks ago Fed Chairman/ Crimeboss “Helicopter” Ben Bernanke told the U.S. and the world as a whole that the “Recession has ended”. Hmmm… now over the course of the last two years I have learned to decipher when Mr. Bernanke is lying. Which is pretty much whenever he opens his mouth. I mean maybe we should all just take his word for it? He is after all a strike out artist who has been wrong on just about everything.
            I guess we are just supposed to put our head in the sand, whisper some positive affirmations and not notice that the Dollar is tanking, unemployment is still in avalanche status, and the ever weakening of Consumer Spending. Add that to a real estate market that is in rigor mortis, trillions in losses in the bank mark to model con job, off the book losses in derivatives pawned on customers after the idiots that be in their wonderful wisdom thought it prudent to rescind the Glass-Steagall act; thus creating the Derivative Death Star that will blow us to supernova with tune of $600 Trillion Plus (Using BIS estimates). That alone will vaporize financial markets and world banking systems. Once again thanks to the idiots that be, who thought it prudent to have total deregulation of the OTC derivatives via the Commodities Futures Modernization Act.

            Oh let us not forget the ongoing money pits that is Iraq and Afghanistan, hundreds of banks that are set to fail, a bankrupt entitlements programs, FDIC running on Empty, the Fed printing trillions of dollars out of thin air, in secret without oversight or accountability; future multi-trillion dollar budget short falls thanks in part to a keeping a comatose economy on life support. International shipping and trade down 90% + as well as a credit market that is as frozen as a TV dinner. Now if that all sounds like a recovery to you or an end to the recession then I have a bridge in Brooklyn that I can sell you.

            The same idiots who told you that everything was okay and that there is no recession are now the same morons who are seeing the light at the end of the tunnel? That’s how the media is playing this whole thing out. The reality is Main Street is a completely different world than Wall Street; for the average Joe, the cab driver, the contractor, the small business owner, the restraunteur, the college grad, there is no recovery. Everyone I had talked to, business is really off or they are on the verge of going out of business. Low pay, lousy jobs, losing jobs, can’t find a job….that is the reality of this “recovery”.

            The rotting corpse of what was once the crown jewel in the global economy America, is now being covered up by various embalming ointments, glitter, shine and glimmer. Parfume de Media has been generously applied to cover the putrification of what was once the vaunted middle class now being decimated on a scale similar to terminal cancer working through a body’s organs.

            The greatest crime in the history of the world is taking place right before our very own eyes and in broad daylight. Enter the Gangs of New York; more lawless than wild west desperados, more damaging than any mafia from any country and from any time frame. They are better organized than the Yakuza, more dangerous than the Chinese Triads and have more Cahones than the Italian Mafia. A ruthless mob of financial gangsters and political wise guys have taken over America.

            It seems that not a week passes without news of some new Constitutional crime perpetrated by the Wall Street and Washington D.C. crime families. Had the crooks at large been average everyday names their stories would be front and center on every alphabet news channel in the country. There would be movies, pay-per views, HBO documentaries, Congressional Investigations, heck even Hollywood would jump on the organized crime bandwagon and would put out hits that would put GoodFellas, and The Godfather to shame.

            Alas since the characters are White Shoe ( the term means a firm or organization that has been in power for over a century and represents the Fortune 500) Old World Bankster Families who run Wall Street the Federal Reserve and now the United States Treasury; their criminal racketeering was well concealed in political polite “White Shoe” Language. Instead of Extortion we have nice terms like “Credit Default Swaps”, Auction Rate Securities, “Special Investment Vehicles”, Collateralized debt obligations and the ever popular derivatives. The Gangs of New York pressed their bought for and compromised political stooges in D.C. to ramrod one-thousand page bills knowing that an illiterate and lazy Congress with enough pressure would pass anything before anyone with sense even got a chance to read it. TARP Funds, Bailouts, Buyouts, Rescue Plans, Stimulus Packages , Carbon Credits, Cap and Trade by whatever name, the greatest pilfering of a country’s generational wealth is taking place right before our very eyes. Almost everyone who saw it and blew the whistle called it “criminal” but Washington called it “legislation”.

            By order of the President and Congress, Democans and Republicrats alike decreed that the all living and about to be born Americans and their descendents for generations would be responsible for all the bad bets made by the Gangs of New York and the Cartels that were titled “too big to fail”. They have privatized the profits and socialized the risks.

            The Gangs from New York and their minions used the same old tired fear mongering that we have been accustomed to under the eight years of Dubbya. Instead of the people being told about Weapons of Mass Destruction, links to Al-CIAeda and Mushroom clouds. They were told of imminent financial ruin, anarchy in the streets and even some Congressmen were threatened with Martiall Law if they did not pass the bills. The pretense was different but the game is the same; just as we were force induced into a war with Saddam before anyone got a chance to verify that there were any weapons of mass destruction or Al-CIAeda links. So to were we forced induced into supporting the “too big to fail” just incase they did fail. As a student of history, there is always one thing that I see prevalent in every major crisis; and that is facts get twisted to support the agenda.

            The Washington D.C. and New York crime families used the same fear trump card that they have used under the Bush administration, but now with Obama the fervor has been turned up a notch or two. Someone please explain to me why the American taxpayer is paying to bailout companies that have put themselves in the hole by making bad bets? Crime Boss Ben “Helicopter” Bernanke and Obama have used the “ What should I do when my neighbors house is on fire analogy” in various congressional hearings and gatherings. Talk about a tepid, fraudulent and puerile explanation of a financial maelstrom; one that is taken and accepted by the Media Flapper whores without question. A media apparatus that serves the state and peddles the aforementioned drivel to the public at large as the “Logic from the wise”. Just ask yourself this question, what if the “too big to fail” actually failed? Well in back in September 15th 2008 one of them actually did. The prestigious firm Lehman Brothers went bust when it could no longer cover it’s gambling debts, creating the biggest bankruptcy in American history. $691 Billion to be exact.

            When it happened the markets went reeling like a drunken frat boy in a college party but the sun came out, the birds sang, food did not stop growing and the free market principles kicked in and the market stabilized. There was never any real fear of “too big to fail” it was a carefully contrived ruse, a scare tactic, the “made men” from New York crying wolf to siphon funds from the American people to pay for their compulsive gambling habits that they call “market speculation”. Got to love it, Big Government propping up Big Losers; successive money fixes and a fool’s rally that is only postponing the inevitable.

            We are at a point where we are damned if we do and damned if we don’t. The proverbial “rock and a hardplace.” Capital continues to leave the country at an alarming rate, which telegraphs to me that interest rates should be raised. Now with all the “quantitative easing” (Printing Money out if thin air) that the Fed is doing, the monetizing and such which leads me to think that we are on the verge of what many experts are calling a dollar crisis. There is no question in my mind that the dollar is going to be sacrificed. Think about it. We have hundreds of trillions in dollar denominated derivative debt, that are still in the system and still categorized as “toxic assets”. This is a major systemic problem that needs to be fixed and it cannot be done without out drastic monetary and fiscal overhaul. Translation: The dollar is done as the world’s reserve currency and we are going to be coerced in falling in line with the New Financial World Order, one in which the US will participate not as an economically powerful independent nation; but a subservient lackey to a faceless globalist bureaucracy based in Basel, Switzerland.

            I will also state that the dollar will not be replaced by the now defunct Amero, but by another dollar and I can see it emerging may by 2014 or 2015. Debt in the banking system is going to be macrophaged by the Fed as almost all banks are bankrupt, in the next 90 days I predict a second round of debt write offs and another crisis in the derivative market. Now if the debt is not monetized the whole debt system that we have been fooling ourselves with will collapse. Our Financial system is totally unsustainable and our foreign escapades of spreading democracy and freedom by bombing 2nd world countries into the stone age is not working out so well.

            What we have witnessed is a gang-rape of America by The Gangs of New York and the Washington crime syndicate. Two Generations of wealth have been wiped out and I will let you in on a little secret; wealth can never be destroyed; it is always TRANSFERRED. I predict in the next coming months and years we will begin to see America’s death and decline as a world Superpower, we will be integrated into a nefarious global government system. The First of this is was the planned deindustrialization of America and the snow job that was brainwashed into the people that we are a “consumer economy”. We have bought that lie, hook, line and sinker. Ignorant of the fact that historically the wealth of a nation is created on the Factory floor. Ignorant of the fact that the Central Bank Concept (With dates back thousands of years to the ancient Sumerians) has never worked. That the only way it goes in reality as a opposed to the paper practical, is a continued creation of debt bubbles and credit (debt) expansion. Now the time has come and it is time to pay the piper.

            • The Proof of V’s statement above is to ask yourself the question; Why, do we borrow money from China?

              (Give up?)
              A: New Wealth comes out of the ground when combined with labor. Not printed on printing press.

              • Red thumbs suck obama’s …

                Fill in blank.

      50. Campers camping and wow, an RPG in the air and a drone, damn.

      51. The only things you’re going to down with a shotgun are those little multi-rotor camera copters like the picture. Those things have a very short range, very short endurance, (ten minutes or so), and are hopeless to control in any kind of wind. They can be deployed for tactical purposes, like getting more detail on opponents in a firefight. In which case the fit has already hit the Shan and shooting one down won’t add anything to the charges you’re already planning for you, assuming you survive. So shoot it already.

        What everyone needs to worry about is the drones they’ve got that are just modified light planes, like a Cessna or a Piper Cherokee. Those things fly at 5000 feet, have cameras that can read the fine print on your newspaper, and transmit everything to a central database that is keeping a day-by-day record of everything they see, right down to where you dropped your gum wrappers. You won’t shoot those down with a shotgun. Or even a high power rifle. Only protection against those is bad weather.

        • @OC
          I agree completely. See my earlier comment. Ideas?

      52. Drones, along with the entire technological surveillance system is only effective in the narrow window of a government under treat by the populace, during a still existing period of social and civil cohesion. Once the SHTF, all the regulations, laws, enforcement capability, parts and manufacturing supply chains, etc. GO OUT THE WINDOW!

        take the conflict in Syria for the most recent example. The Syrian government has availed to it all the existing surveillance technology that America does — drones, communication surveillance and tracking (provided by European commercial software firms), satellite intelligence (provided by Russia), etc. — albeit less extensive and sophisticated.

        Yet examine the state of affairs and massive destruction throughout the nation! The government teetering on collapse. THERE SIMPLY IS NO ANTIDOTE FOR COMMITTED MASSES OF ARMED MEN ON THE GROUND! And this is why gun confiscation in America is ‘JOB ONE’ despite the enormously sophisticated surveillance system. They know its limitations. Advanced surveillance and communications technologies (for their time), along with B-52’s (‘manned’ drones) didn’t work in Vietnam. It won’t work in America either, in the long run.

        When the S(REALLY)HTF, these authoritative statements and attempts at intimidation by government agencies are for their own self deluding comfort, security and self-interest, for they will have as much validity and basis in reality as building code violations regarding huddled survivors in Dresden Germany after the fire bombing, or the Geneva Convention laws in Vietnam during ‘Operation Phoenix’.

        In the meantime, no need to overreact, or even debate this issue. Spend your time and efforts ‘stocking up, and $tacking up’. Historical reality will deal with this.

      53. Good day all,
        Thanks for all the info above. For “WATCHMAN”, sorry to bug! Awhile back you
        had posted regarding the effectiveness of certain projectiles
        on Kevlar helmet/vest, any chance you can repost?
        For BI, regarding weather/earthquakes, etc weird,
        it rained yesterday in our area in S. Cali, kind of
        weird for us in late July. I think it’s more of a myth around here that it shakes
        when the temp. is hotter. I claim ignorance, is there
        any correlation with temperatures and earthquakes?
        Peace out

        • GD2EE,
          I may have been one of those who posted concerning experiments in armor piercing modifications to existing lead ammo.
          I simply ground the end of a bullet flat enough for being drilled, then drilled a hole down through the center of the round(using a good drill press and specially made wood clamp.), a hole that matched the circumference of a highly dense concrete nail. Grinding the head off the nail, allows it to be inserted into the hole, with a small drop of epoxy(JBWeld) to hold it long enough for it to be delivered to target. This would form a ‘sabot’ round. Probably not good for longer distances, as the balance would be off.

          I would love to hear the results of test on this, since all I have are trees. But, compared to a regular lead round, the tree absorbs the lead, but the sabot rounds came out the other side…


          • It would be a long and involved process but you could drill it by chucking that bullet in a lathe befor you load it. This would increase the accuracy at long distance.

      54. BIG frikkin deal!

      55. Hoser to Administration: “I regulate the AIRSPACE over my house!” Questions?

      56. Lead Shot or Steel?

        • Steel tends to deform less on impact, therefore penetrating better. But steel is less dense, so at longer ranges slows down much more. I don’t know. I’d use steel close up and lead farther out, however, I don’t think you’ll be seeing anything but microdrones. The others fly too high so it probably doesn’t matter. The place they want to use these things are in areas over Chicongo and New Dork. They’re pretty safe since guns are outlawed and the only people who have guns are the gang bangers. They couldn’t hit a drone the size of a house if it was hovering at 50ft.

      57. I dunno? What power,s these drones? If they are nuclear powered I think it would not be too healthy to shoot them? they possibily could be Alien (Area51?) technology and be dangerious to the environment? Unless one directly fires on or attacks me in some way Ill leave them be. I dont approve of them and most of what the UN NWO agenda 21 folks are doing. However ill just keep on keeping on until my hand is forced.

      58. When in the course of human events…These words begin the Declaration of Independence, we are fast approaching a time when we the people will need to draft another Declaration of Independence. Our national government is completely out of control, there was a time when politicians would at least try to hide their nefarious deeds, not anymore, they have absolute power and they know it. Try speaking your mind at a town council meeting and watch how fast you are shown the exit, when you pay your taxes, regardless of how egregious the over charges, fees, late penalties, etc. if you speak in ANY way to contest the charges you’ll be cooling your heels in the local hoosegow faster than you can say IRS! The republic is DEAD!, until we face that fact, the abusers will continue to enslave all of us, repeat after me, THE REPUBLIC IS DEAD!!!, act accordingly.

      59. By telling us that we could incur some liability for shooting them down…they have told us that they are vulnerable to being shot down. I think the FAA has told us the season is open on drones and there is no bag limit.

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