The Housing Market Recovery Has Vanished

by | Aug 9, 2011 | Headline News | 105 comments

Do you LOVE America?


    Via CNN:

    Any glimmer of hope that the housing market will stage a recovery in the upcoming months has vanished, thanks to the recent spate of bad economic news that has been making headlines over the past several weeks.

    According to the latest analysis of home price trends in 384 markets based on the Fiserv/Case-Shiller Indexes, it will be well into the first quarter of 2013 before median home prices across the nation will even be on par with prices from the first quarter of this year.

    “Every piece of bad news causes more people to be more nervous,” said David Stiff, chief economist for Fiserv, which provides information management and analyses data for the financial services industry. “The stabilization of housing markets depends greatly on household confidence in the strength of the economic recovery. Unfortunately, recent economic news has done little to build confidence.

    There still, however, is no shortage of housing inventory. More than 3.75 million existing homes in June alone were on the market, according to the National Association of Realtors. At the latest rate of sales, it would take 9.5 months to exhaust that inventory, about 50% longer than what NAR considers a healthy housing market.

    “I don’t think we’ll see an increase in sales until we see the economy improving,” said Fiserv’s Stiff.

    CNN et. al. would have us believe that the housing (and economic) recovery have stalled because of a “recent spate of bad economic news.” The fact is, however, that the economic news has been bad for over three years – and that trend will not only continue, but accelerate.

    Housing will not reach recovery until the economy improves, and that means we’re looking at about five to ten years at best. Yes, our view is contrary to mainstream analysis, but we have to remember that we not only never came out of the 2008/2009 recession, we’re actually in Depression territory, which means we’re looking at not months, but years, potentially decades. In November of 2009 we wrote:

    Some estimates have forecasted that real estate is set to decline another 10% to 15%. But, what if the next wave collapses our real estate market another 30%, or even 50%? Doesn’t sound possible does it? For non-believers, we direct your attention to the Japanese real estate bubble of the 1990′s compared to the USA through 2008.

    From top to bottom, adjusted for inflation, housing prices in Japan collapsed a whopping 75%. Hard to believe. But, it happened. It also happened during the first great depression, with land prices dropping so much that they were 90% of their pre-depression highs.

    Economist and cyclical analyst Martin Armstrong gave us A Forecast for Real Estate, in which he outlined the reasons for the decline, the severity and volatility to come, and the time line of events. His forecast is just as timely today as it was in 2009:

    “There is no delicate way to put this right now, but we are looking at a serious economic depression in terms of values of real estate. We have reached a crossroad that is very profound and if we do not at least try to comprehend the problem, we may be facing the worst economic implosion that has taken place in centuries. Thanks to the New York Investment Banks, they helped to leverage real estate far beyond anything that took place in history, and we are going to pay the price.”

    “The FIRST golden rule, “Presume Nothing” is so profound, far too many people just go charging forward. It has been the presumption since my childhood, that real estate always rises in the long-term and thus is a great asset constituting the majority of the average person’s wealth.

    What if the presumption is wrong?

    Now we are entering into a subject-matter that is so fundamental, it starts to get a bit scary. You will now see what I  have been very concerned about after discovering this serious problem decades ago.

    I have written about the Debt Crisis that was faced in Athens by Solon (630-530BC) and Julius Caesar (100-44BC). Now these history lessons will start to pay-off. What was it causing the debt crisis? Real Estate! This is critical to understand. It was not the public debt alone, but the private debt involving REAL ESTATE!”

    Armstrong’s analysis suggests that we may see a (small) bounce in real estate from 2012 through 2015, and then a total re-collapse of the real estate market, which he expects to contract for 26 years into 2033.

    For those who think it’s not possible – just look to history. It is not only possible, but quite likely that the sovereign debt crisis faced by the United States and the personal debt destruction to individuals is so severe that the fallout can last for decades – not months.

    Even our own Treasury Secretary, in a surprising moment of truth, warned Americans to get ready for:

    I think it’s going to take a long time still. This is a very tough economy. And I think for a lot of people it’s going to be – it’s going to feel very hard, harder than anything they’ve experienced in their lifetime now, for some time to come.

    -Treasury Secretary Tim Geithner, Meet the Press, July 10, 2011

    These are difficult concepts to grasp for a society hellbent on instant gratification and weekly fad and trend changes. But in the grand scheme of things natural cycles, including financial, economic and political cycles, last for years, sometimes entire lifetimes.

    We can brace for the initial impact with short-term preparations, but be sure to consider long-term SHTF planning that includes everything from self sustainable food and energy production to skills development for a future economy that may be starkly different from today’s.


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      1. Well the fed sent a large chunk of change to B of A without asking me about it. Maybe I should send B of A a letter & advise them that my mortgage was paid in full by the fed.

        I’ll talk crap but I have always been the “responsible” guy that still has a credit rating over 800. Sometimes I piss myself off.

        Not sure how long I’ll keep making the payment. Have to see how things develop, I guess.

        • Why not send them a friendly letter asking them who holds the original mortgage note and requesting a copy for your records.

          If you don’t get one, why keep paying. They can’t prove they own it or have rights to it.

          If you do get one, make sure it is your signature and keep paying if it is. ROBO signers are still running rampant.

          Odds are they don’t have anything that would legally give them a right to it and you can claim adverse possession.

          Not having to pay a mortgage would buy a lot of preps.

          • I got the loan from BofA and is has never been sold. I know it’s my signature.

            Yeah, I’m Joe Responsible. (unlike Geithner,Rangel et al)

            • It’s worth checking out. Don’t make it easy for the banksters.

          • Well, I’ll bite!

            In case the bank desires to ignore my request: Is there any law or right I can invoke to force the bank to prove they have the signed mortgage giving them rights to my home?


        • Well, in my opinion, as long as you can pay you should pay. A deal is a deal. Besides, you have to live somewhere and it might as well be somewhere that you can “almost” do as you please…
          The thing that pisses me off is that even after you pay “off” the loan; you only “own” the property until you don’t pay your taxes. I like the approach Panama uses in order to attact not only ex-pats but local investment as well. Build a new house there and pay ZERO taxes of any kinf on the property for 20 years.

          • OK Sam,

            Let’s say that you wanted a widget. You went to some guy who said he sold widgets. He offered to sell you one for $100, plus interest. You buy the widget and start making the $1 a month payments.

            Later you discover that the widget did not actually belong to the guy who sold it to you. In fact, he stole it in a massive fraud that involved taking widgets from everybody you knew, and didn’t know.

            Do you still owe this guy the money for the widget he stole once you find out it was in fact stolen and the guy had no right to it to start with?

            I think not.

            • Hypothetical, theoretical and not pertinent. You can’t assume that every mortgage is based on fraudulent paper.

            • While I am no mortage or title expert, a trustworthy friend in that industry advised me of a landmark breakthrough–that an injunction succeeded against MERS (Mortgage Electronic Registration System). Apparently there is considerable evidence that there are millions of homes in jeopardy because of wrong title information in that widely used system. Banksters at their worst.

            • Sam, If the mortgage is denominated in FRN corporate debt notes, then yes you may assume it is based on fraudulent paper.

              The problem is that too many people like yourself do not see the fraud as a fraud and allow it to persist.

              Unless you understand the banking fraud, you are not yet fully awake. There are no enemies other than the banks.

          • “Well, in my opinion, as long as you can pay you should pay. A deal is a deal.”

            WHAT?….. Deal should go both ways, they didn’t put anything into this deal, THEY SOLD IT AND LEVERAGED 50-100 TIMES… AND YOU CALL THIS DEAL??…. And you still think it was a deal? HA?

        • Shit! my credit score is over 800 too! We are finally in escrow for that house in the country I have dreamed of for nearly 10 years now. Sometimes I could just scream….

      2. Mae and Mack own what – 1.7 million US homes? I’m sure they’ll be redistributed from those who tried to buy them to those who’ll get them for almost nothing – or absolutely nothing. Those who pay their way – will pay for it of course.

          • They will quickly be converted into McGhettos.

        • They best hurry. An unoccupied house goes downhill pretty fast w/o someone to maintain it….preferably an owner/occupant. One winter alone in many climates can do thousands in damage from water freezing in pipes. Let a house sit around 4-5 years, and it may only be bulldozer material….which, of course, might just be the plan.

          • Section 8 renters perform “maintenance?” As a 1st responder who visited these hell holes for a living….I THINK NOT! In one in particular, a San Francisco hi-rise we affectionately called “The Pink Palace”, they urinated in the hallways. You needed an SCBA to enter the building. Light bulbs in the hallways? What light bulbs?

      3. The housing market will take another huge hit with the coming layoff of tens of thousands of federal government employees. Also keep in mind that 40% of the layoffs in May were state and local govt. workers! The federal government owns many mortgages (most?). I have already heard politicians talk about redistributing the housing to under-privilaged (democratic/minority) people. Consider how many homes these agencies are involved in: FHA, VA, Fannie Mae, Freddy Mac, HUD, etc. In Chicago the government tore down projects and put the “poor” people into brand new townhouses that I as a working man couldn’t afford. I pray the governmnet collapses. It’s not my governmnet anyway.

        • LOL I was thinking the same thing. I was worried about a collapse of our Government but then it dawned on me that it is no longer my Government ever since they stopped listening to me as well as other fellow Americans.

        • I’ve heard more then one comment about giving the homes to returning soldiers from Iraq/Afghanistan. I’m not in favor of that, but doubt it will get much resistance. Maybe they could at least require them to install a solar system and be grid neutral before giving it too them. At least when STHF they’ll have power that way.

          • If these f’n jerks would stop signing up for the military, the wars would have to end, and the 450 foreign bases would have to close.

            One thing Americans would riot over is re-instating the draft.

      4. There is not a “recovery” to have stalled. There is no economic “rebound” facing “headwinds”. We are not “heading” for a double dip recession. Housing will not recover until people have jobs. People won’t have jobs until the government gets off our backs. The government won’t get off our backs until they are forced to do so. We are at a minimum, in a mini depression. It may well be about to become a maxi depression. I live in an upper middle class neighborhood. I can’t drive down any street in any direction without seeing at least a few obviously empty and abandoned houses. Things are not getting better and are in fact, getting worse. Live beneath your means and get everything free and clear. Pray earnestly, be honest and upright, stand in the Light and do what is good and right.

        • Same here, Sam…the neighborhood I live in only has 23 houses…five of which have gone into foreclosure, which has destroyed the value of my home…Would like to sell and move even further out into the country, but we know we won’t get anything out of our house at this point…so we have planted a nice garden, a small orchard, and are raising chickens for eggs and meat…

      5. The economy can only get healthy when housing prices collapse. When bad decisions are cleansed from the system. When governments get out of the way. When interest rates rise and the real pool of savings grows. When consumption shrinks and production takes over.

      6. I’m little worried to see contractors that are still building homes and retail. And I tell my self “can’t they see we have tons of empty spaces all over the city?” These contracting companies gotta have some common sense. Furthermore, about speaking housing crisis check out this person’s you tube channel. You’ll be surprised on what you see.

      7. In order for the house market to recover, there is one basic factor: People.
        People who can buy or rent or lease the property.
        If there are no people with money, then logic says that there will be no contracts or selling.
        It’s not exactly university economics. It’s more like simple logic of a 7 y.o. elementary student.
        But what am i looking for anyway?
        Our leaders don’t operate with logic. Logic needs brains, and, at least Greek politicians are not famous of their brain quantity and quality.

        Be safe everybody. It’s starting.

        • Someone wrote a while back that only 25% of our population could raise $2,000 in cash right now if they had too. That being said its pretty clear 75% are out of the housing market!

        • Even people with money are not buying due to Fear. Fear of loss of money.

          • How much money an appartment costs in the USA?
            For example an apt of 110 square metres downtown Heraklion, in the third or fourth storie, costs around 350,000.00 euros (around 500,500.00 dollars).
            A simple family house (grounf floor only) in 110 s.m. costs around 600,000.00 euros.
            The 99% of houses here are built with concrete, no matter appartments building or a family house.

            • Manos – that depends upon where it is located. On average a single family home, 3-2-2 is between $80,000 and $200,000, again, depending upon location and neighborhood. Some places are far less and others are far more.

            • True. Location is everything here. You can have a 3000 sq ft house in Georgia go for $225,000 but that exact same home in Los Angeles or NYC would run you $1,000,000+. That same 3000 sq ft home in Detroit would be about $10. Of course you’d have to spend $500K fortifying it but…..

            • There was an article on Yahoo News last week about the lowest priced neighborhoods in America. Youngstown PA got my attention. A 3 bedroom, 2 ba, reasonable size yard, looked “ok” from outside probably trashed inside was $5,999. Pay $1,499 down and $450 a month for 10 months and at least the land is yours – who knows about the house.

              I bought a condo 3bd/2ba 1100 sq feet in Central California in December for $48,500 cash. Lenders will not put out loans on condo complexes here – I even tried with 50% down – no go. I get about a 6.75% return on my investment..though I know its going down in value I’d rather have it then cash.

      8. Listen to this short clip. I fear this “attitude” is being encouraged by the libs and is spreading. We will see more and more of this – violence and flash mobs.

        London rioters: ‘Showing the rich (the business owners) we do what we want’

        • Yep, KY Mom you’er right!

          There are many in this world who want to see it all burn. All we have to do is look back to 1992 LA’s riots.

        • The Karl Marx “useful idiots”/students/young adults are responding. Here in America too (Philadelphia, flash mobs stealing, beatings at the fair grounds in Wisconsin).

          Gerald Celente was right. There will be riots & blood in the street. And I agree, “many” politicians here seem to want that.

        • All over the world, leftists have been successful in redefining “the rich” as anyone who has a dollar more then the leech class.

      9. there was a recovery?? Really, when was that, not only is housing in a depression, so is the whole world and it wont be getting better anytime soon.

      10. I just dropped the price on my house by 20k today. 5.4% reduction. I’ll be lucky if I don’t have to drop it another 20k before it sells. Luckily I’m not upside down but this market has really turned sour recently.

      11. Whatever you can do for yourself that is NOT tied in any way to the financial system is a plus. Power generation should be right after food and water.

        Free solar panel building videos are here

        It is not that hard to do, and may be the only thing that can make your life bearable, if you survive.

        • GC: You tube has some great DIY wind turbine videos too.

        • GC,

          As much as I agree with you on your own power production ( I have a 6kw self installed PV system ), “building your own” solar panels is an invitation to disaster. There is enough of a learning curve to overcome setting up a real home power system without adding the problems of trying to duplicate pro built panels. The last ones I bought, Solarworld, were slightly over 600 bucks for 245w panels.

          Leave the home built panels for experiments and play… GOOD panels for long term power production.

          • I agree Andy. I don’t expect anyone to go watch those videos and have their home running free forever by next week. Experiment and play is all most people need to do right now. The grid is still up and people can still afford it.

            How much would it be worth as a skill if you built enough of them to get good at it? Right now it is an optional skill to learn. By the time it is a required skill there will be few to teach it.

            Besides, there is a feeling of pride that comes with doing it yourself. Can’t have pride in the corp, may as well do something to make yourself proud.

            • GC,

              Trust me…I’m ALL for DIY, and the sense of pride of accomplishment. I’ve built my own house, out of lumber cut out of trees I logged off my own property, right down to making the cabinets and trim in my shop…..I KNOW how to take a raw material and add value. But when it comes to solar, I CAN’T seem to grow my own silicon crystals, and thus, simply the cost of components alone added to the odds of making something that approaches factory quality screams don’t go this route.

              To get some SERIOUS power production, you’re looking at 20-30 panels in the 200w range ( and even that will only supply about 1/2-2/3 the national average 900kw/hrs/mo in my location.

              WHERE does one get that number of first quality cells ? HOW would you approach the buying power of a company like Solarworld/etc ? ( Say 72 per 24v panel…you’re talking 1500-2000 cells for a decent array )…..then the aluminum frame material…..then 20-30 pcs of high quality tempered glass…..and so on…..and then, you have the issue of other components….charge controllers, inverters, batteries, etc….surely nobody here has ever built these from stuff bought at Radio Shack ?

              One CAN assemble a brand new car from parts….but I doubt seriously you can do it for assembly line price, nor hit the quality IF it’s your first time project.

              Again, I say DYI solar panels are great for small projects, experimentation, and such……but if you can show me ONE person that has a multiple KW setup going from cells they bought off Ebay, I’d sure like to see it.

        • A company in Australia are making self powering generators that run magnets. One small turbine produces enough for 5 houses ….. 24 hours a day, 365 days a year!!! Need to hand crank it to start her up though. There worth about $5000 Aussie dollars to buy. So about $5100US. They are about the size of a small water pump. There’s a video on YouTube. Hopefully, he’s not brought out or driven out of business.

          • Samurai, can you post the video link. I have tried to find it for months.

            • Google Is the company website. Lutec of Cairns Australia. I can’t find the YouTube clip I watched several times. typical of me really, I find something important and then I forget to mark it. Plenty of info for you to look at though …… I’ll go back now and see if I can find the exact clip for you. watch this space

          • Baloney Sam. Another internet myth (or scam) that you can get something for near nothing. Doesn’t work for lunch and it doesn’t work for energy.

            You buy one, fire it up, and tell me where I can come look ( and measure input and output ).

            Until then, I remain in Missouri.

            • Hey com on Andy dude ….. Just check out Lutec in Cairns Australia …..OK? Don’t be shootin the messenger. Just trying to help man.

            • OK Sam ( can’t seem to reply to your comment on the website, reply is blanked out )

              Went to the website….pretty photo of some high tech looking something and nothing else….”under construction”… no way to check much of anything at that site.

              Googled the name and found some other sites, but apparently this whole thing is about 10 years old, and they haven’t managed to power the first house with one yet.

              The crux of their argument seems to be the use of permanent magnets, but they don’t seem to be able to explain once you start removing electrical power ( which creates resistance…flip your lights on in a car, and you can sometimes feel the engine slow a bit as the alternator has to work harder to meet the new load )WHERE that power comes from. They prattle on about “hold a steel beam off the floor with a permanent magnet….no external power required like an electromagnet”…..yeah….but to pull the beam LOOSE from the magnet ( thus creating work ) DOES require some ‘external power’….

              Not shooting the messenger, but honestly, this is like most claims of perpetual motion….they simply don’t exist. You can’t get around the basic laws of physics…..and apparently, in a decade, these guys haven’t done anything with it, so even IF some of their technology is somewhat new, the fact is you can’t buy one and plug it in.

      12. We watched Suze Orman for the first time in a while this weekend. As I’m sure you all know, she is pretty optimistic usually.

        This time she said that it will be 14-20 YEARS before housing prices are back to 2005/2006 levels. She gave one lady advice to short sell or strategically default & foreclose on her home – not because she couldn’t afford it but because she was so upside down in the house.

        With the new IRS rules coming in 2013, she is recommending that you do it soon. New rule – You will be taxed on the banks loss. For example, if you owe $400K & the bank sells your home for $300K. You will show “income” of $100K on your tax return.

        • Notwithstanding the IRS has no authority to tax a non government employee for any reason, it can not even force victims to accept that information return under it’s own rules. Bogus information returns like those from the bank can easily be corrected.

          But the best thing for all to do NOW is understand what the corp and the IRS actually is. Do YOU owe a tax to the IRS. I am 100% sure the IRS will say yes, but unless you have a voluntary and in force form W-4 using a Social Security Number, you DO NOT owe a tax.

          Quit using these forms and numbers. The corps offspring will try to force them on you, but the CFR says that the forms must be voluntary, are NEVER required, and can be terminated at any time by the worker or the employer.

          On the other hand, if you want to surrender yourself to the corp it will take everything you have and say you voluntarily gave it to away.

          The corp is not screwing you. It’s agents are just leading you to screw yourself.

          • Be sure and post your address in jail ? We’ll write, we swear… 🙂

            • Maybe you should take the time to watch the show ‘Freedom to Facism’ You can find it (by Aaron Russo) on Youtube

              you won’t feel so smart and smug afterwards….I know it educated me and was quite the shock

            • I have no fear of the IRS Sam. I have no assets or “income” tied to a SSN, No IRS form W-4 in force anywhere, I don’t work for a corporation, have no tax liability to the corp, and no valid corporate mailing address.

              All that adds up to no liability and peace of mind.

              There is a big difference between knowing the law and how it applies to you and evading taxes that you have voluntarily agreed to pay through corporate fraud.

              If you took the time to learn about it, you would likely find that you owe no tax either. Too bad you still volunteer to pay it. All that prep money gone to the corp in exchange for what?

              It’s your money. I like to keep mine, but you can do what you want with yours.

            • GC, forget it. Sam is of the “I paid my fair share so you should have to also!!!”

              This is why America is not ready for real freedom. They cannot understand stepping out of the corporate legal system and into the common law system where licenses, permits and taxes on private land are null and void.

              Many good people denigrate and defame you when you enter this system. They have been brainwashed into thinking those people that avoid the screwing are “crooks” or “tax evaders” when in reality those people are the honorable ones and the “self screwers” are the idiots. But, as they say, evil turns everything on its head. War is peace. Slavery is freedom. Proverty is prosperity.

              Go ahead people. Live your false reality. I’ve been enlighted and in a few months will be on nearly the same footing as GC. You can denigrate and defame me all you want but I will laugh all the way to the bank while I actually own my property (land grand, residential to private) and enjoy Act of State Ambassador status. In two weeks my DSR will be filed and it will be official.

              Whine all you want. You’re only hurting yourself and feeding the beast.

          • GC, what is the CFR code section that demands that the W-4 be voluntary?

          • The only way you have a prayer of succeeding in such a venture is to be self employeed and deal completely outside the system, which is easier said than done.

        • The IRS does this now already! It’s not a new rule.

      13. without manufacturing jobs and a market in this country..this will keep going just like it is, until its all the way to the bottom.

        prep up, stock up, load up, and remember who is ultimately responsible for this shit when it falls to its face.

        and remember with out us, there is no them..they need our money to keep fucking us..

        they are doing a great job of screwing themselfs, soon enough the pain will be felt by all

        • You are right VRF, because the whole system is connected.
          There will come a time when few people can consume, so there will be nobody to buy the shit they produce.
          Then they will take their ipods, and nokias, and sonys, and shove them up in their as……
          Last week some Greek medium said that by 2013 the Chinese Foxconn will have 500.000 workers replaced, with robots.
          So if you have robots to do the job, why don’t you let people to enjoy life, get money, and goods?
          The answer is that money and wealth is what seperates the elite from the mass.
          If all people have equaly shared wealth, then there will be no need for the elitists’ existence. That’s why they are desperately trying to hold on to power by fucking us.
          But as you said: soon…

          • Manos: I saw that article. Chinese workers are not going to be replaced by African workers, or Viet Namese …. just robots.

          • This idea is also my dh’s idea…but, the ones that really matter–the elites worth billions—don’t care a hoot about selling us stuff…they are wealthy already..think they have problems equipping their estates with solar or digging wells on their property??
            They live in another realm….not of ours.
            It’s ‘control’ they want and when they destroy our way to earn to consume, when they destroy our farms, then they will have it. Population reduction.
            JayJay’s opinion.

            • That’s why this whole “crisis”, came out of the blue the last two years.
              They are preparing us to accept all the austerity measures and at the end, every human being will live a borrowed life.
              It’s like the feudal economy of the medieval ages, when peasants actually belonged to the ruller.
              They don’t want us to have our own house because you can be independent. Even if one is unemployed, having his/her house is still a small freedom to choose your own path.
              But if property becomes unbearable due to the taxes, then everybody will live on rent. Then you will not have the guts to revolt, because revolting will lead to job loss, job loss will lead to home loss, and finally to whole families living on the streets.
              They play with our minds and psychology.
              I really don’t know a way out of this. It’s so cruel and so barbaric, human beings to behave like that.

      14. By the way Mac, I love your article. Your analysis is way more accurate than what the Main Stream idiots are giving us.

        What is your opinion of rural farm land? I have tried to do some research but can’t find anything statistical. My gut tells me that it is holding in value & possibly increasing in value.

        When we bought our 34 acres of pasture/woods combo in the Southeast a few months ago, the agent told us (after the closing so no motivation here) that he has dozens of clients coming from the cities looking for exactly what we bought. He didn’t speculate as to why but we both understood what he meant.

        • Good investment, most likely. Congrats.

        • rural farmland says it all. It holds it’s value in the soil itself, regardless of what the market says it’s worth. Find a piece with water and hang on to it like it’s made outta gold (or food; whatever is highly valued), because one day, it WILL be!

        • Thanks, we think it’s a good investment too. Several springs, deep ice cold well (that we plan to hook solar power to), 2 spring fed stocked ponds.

          And, with 20 acres of pasture we can barter the hay or grow crops to barter/sell.

          We’re getting a diesel tractor with all the implements in a few weeks. Found a cheap, good old one (EMP proof) through a family member. I guess we’ll find a way to store a good amount of diesel to run it for a couple of years.

          • Mr. B: Check out the technology that converts any organic, carbon based material to diesal. You may be able to locate the patents and apply to your personal use.

          • Mr. B,

            I store mine in 55gal drums with PRI-D. in a shed built back into a hill ( to keep cool ) Good almost indefinitely, but I do rotate them from time to time into a 200gal tank on a stand to gravity feed my diesel tractor, garden tiller ( 8hp Lombardini )and bulldozer. Figure what you use in a year, then stick 5-10 years away, and replace as you use until the day comes you can’t.

            Make SURE you get a front loader for the tractor, with quick attach forks/bucket. After a year or two, you’ll wonder what life was like before hydraulics. 🙂

            • About robots, I envisioned years ago after the Veitnam War. To prevent army soldier deaths in a war away from our soils, and to prevent lifetime injuries of our soldiers why don’t we produce robots and them to fight. The enemies will also produce theirs. At the end of each battle each side will count how many of their own robots that survive. That’s how we will determine the winner. Comical, but that’s what happening now. Don’t we count ballots after each election? Don’t we count our pennies to determine who is the czar of the world? How do we determine who has good credit…800 and above?
              Letters of commendation, hard work, good character, letter of hardship (this letter did not save a house to foreclose, out of work – did not save you from a collection agency from collecting. Mind you if you look at the itemization of a collection agency, the service fee is 1 1/2% of the capital debt. I can go on and on but I do not want you to get bored. You started mewith your robots.

      15. Another off topic post.. sorry. We should all pay very close attention to what is happening in the UK and just how the gov there deals with it. It might prove insightful should things get dicey here.. just sayin..

      16. Get ready for more Qe

        • Get Ready to watch the world as you know it burn!!!

          • possibly true.. a couple of weeks ago, we thought we might have a chance at our first hurricane of the season. My wife asked if she needed to pick anything up at the store. I thought about it and smiled. No, nothing at all. Man it is nice to be prepped.

            • Sam, That is so cool !

              When the tornado’s went through Alabama and the power was out of weeks. Gas stations were out of gas and even Walmart was running dry…We just set back and watched the to speak. It’s great to be a prepper and best of all my wife finely understood why I prep like I do. No she is on board 110 percent.

      17. LOW RATES INTO 2013. More time to listen to the band after hitting that pesky iceberg. Free ice while watching the DOW ticker.

        • No…FDA has not approved that ice yet. “Sir you are in violation of code (HR-0000000000000.000666.”

        • I say we go back to 35 cents per pound of chicken.

      18. There’s a Frank Zappa joke there somewhere.

        • Hhhaaaaaahhh!

      19. The currency destruction for the purpose of financing the globalist empire is the reason we will have a total collapse. No jobs will ever be created in any meaningful number because fewer US businesses can afford to pay American standard incomes. As they destroyed the buying power of the dollar we needed cost of living raises to try and keep up. To no avail. At some point companies could not afford the labor. This caused outsourcing and insourcing (illegal immigration). Surprised? The globalist empire must die if we are to survive!

        • OM: Treason plain and simple! Treason!!!

          The genesis of the destruction of the American economy was rooted in the Great Conspiracy generated by GHW Bush, Wall Street, and Globalists in Congress. It was “institutionalized” by his son GWB, with the offshore transfer of 42,400 factories between 2000 -2008, under his administration.This represented the theft of the American economy.

          The Great Conspiracy bribed the Chinese Communist Party leadership to become capitalists and multi-millionaires when China was trying to recover from the Cultural Revolution.

          During the Cultural Revolution tens of millions of Chinese intellectuals and peasants were massacred. China was starving and in ruins. War with their neighbors, even Russia, was thinkable, possible, and probable.

          When they agreed to “free economic zones” in Shanghai, GHW Bush began the transfer of some American defense production (Honeywell) by Presidential Directive and legislation by Congress.

          As more managed trade and open markets (meaning open to gangster bankster investment of American depositer funds to their personal benefit) was allowed by the Chinese Communists, more American factories were transferred to Shanghai and other “free economic zones” in China, (meaning free to the GB’strs) more factories were directed to China.

          It was not the “invisble hand of capitalism” moving in concert with supply and demand. It was the theft and transfer of the American economy by Presidential Order.

          It was treason then. It is treason now.

          More jobs can be created in America today, by either of two mechanisms:

          1: By Presidential Directive, returning the factories that were sent offshore, or by tariifs on goods produced offshore to level where it is cost efficient to build factories in America as Toyota, Honda, and others have, done.

          2. Jobs can also be created in America again by double digit inflation destroying the value of the dollar, creating inflation, and diminishing the purchasing power of the American consumer until a parity in currencies is reached, which would make building a factory and producing that good in America cheaper than shipping it all the way from China.

          This is the process underway now. It is the preffered way for the gangster banksters because it creates more wealth for them and destroys the American Middle Class where power has been vested for decades, even if that power has not been exercised.

          Anyway you slice it, this has not been free market capitalism with everyone competing on a level playing field.

          Its fucking TREASON at the highest level in America. pass the truth along. DC should be burning, not Detroit.

      20. More economy killing, inflation inducing ideas from our cesar in chief… Markedly increased fuel economy requirements for ALL trucks.. including the new heavy duty 4×4 we’d all like to buy.

      21. The Aisle Seat . . .

        Terrorists boarded a flight out of London. One took a window seat and the other sat next to him in the middle seat.
        Just before takeoff, a U.S. Marine sat down in the aisle seat.
        After takeoff the Marine kicked his shoes off, wiggled his toes and was settling in when the Arab in the window seat said ‘I need to get up and get a coke.’
        Don’t get up,’ said the Marine ‘I’m in the aisle seat, ‘I’ll get it for you.’
        As soon as he left one of the Arabs picked up the Marines shoe and spat in it. When the Marine returned with the coke, the other Arab said, ‘That looks good. I’d really like one too.’
        Again, the Marine obligingly went to fetch it.
        While he was gone the other Arab picked up the Marines other shoe and spat in it. When the Marine returned they all sat back and enjoyed the flight.
        As the plane was landing the Marine slipped his feet into his shoes and knew immediately what had happened. He leaned over and asked his Arab neighbors, ‘Why does it have to be this way?
        How long must this go on? This fighting between our nations ? This hatred? This animosity? This spitting in shoes and pissing in cokes?

        • Funny! Hahahahaaaah!!! 🙂

        • ROARING MY ASS OFF LAUGHING!!!!!!! WAHAHAHAHA ……. OH shit it took me a couple minutes for me to get up off the floor and wipe the tears from my eyes!!!! Thanks Anonymous, you made my day!!! Oh shit ….. Can’t stop ….. Here comes a laugh tear again!!!!

          • Lucky they didn’t have a float.

        • Really Good, thank you very much 🙂

      22. BJ:
        August 9, 2011 at 3:03 pm
        Maybe you should take the time to watch the show ‘Freedom to Facism’ You can find it (by Aaron Russo) on Youtube

        BJ, That was a great video I have seen it a few years ago …Everyone should watch this vid!!!!.



      23. You can’t have a real recovery without fixing real problems.

        Memo to America: Stop waiting for Democrats and Republicans to save you. It’s bad for your health and your future. Can’t you tell?

        “WAKE UP PEOPLE!”
        Read “Common Sense 3.1” at ( )

        Enough talk, it’s time to get organized. Join the Revolution for direct democracy in America. Real government by and for the people.


        • Mad Max: The “revolution” you offer is socialism or communism. WE don’t want socialism or communism. WE want the government and the society OUR Founding Fathers brought forth upon this continent.

          Your revolution is not an American Revolution. It is tyranny by the proletarit. WE have seen it before. Not interested.

          • Wow. I concur. I took a brief look at the link and #1) if some group is too stupid to run a spell checker on their website prior to publishing it; I don’t want them anywhere near anything remotely resembling power. #2) we’re not a democracy, at least we’re not supposed to be. We are a Constitutional Republic.

          • Durango Kid, I understand WHAT you want …. That is, to be, the Republic that your founding fathers created after fighting a long Revolution against what was then considered, your own country, that being The United Kingdom. So if that’s what you WANT ….. What do you have now?
            You can’t be considered a Democracy, because, you are in fact A REPUBLIC!! You can’t be BOTH because both IDEAS are contrary to each other.
            And if you do not behave as a Democracy, nor adhere to the principles as laid out in your Constitution and Bill of Rights as a Republic …. Then, how would you describe your Nation?

            • Samurai Sam: America is technically a constitutional Republic. How would I describe the nation now?

              Fucked up by traitors who seek to impose a fascist corporate oligarchy upon US on the one hand, and socialist / communists / globalists seeking one world government on the other.

              This is the power dynamic between the two extremes that is destroying the American economy and middle class. WE have that situation because a Constitutional Republic requires the active participation and eternal vigilance of its citizens.

              Americans have not been alert to the dangers to their nation and their freedoms from within, because they have been distracted by ouside events like war, and because Americans have been engaged in their own affairs rather than engaged with the affairs of their government.

              Both extremes have moved quietly and discreetly in the background manipulating legislation to achieve their aims. It has been a creeping gradualism for decades.

              Americans cannot conceive of their elected leaders being so self indulgent and personally corrupt that they would pervert the founding principles of the nation. That’s why Americans in the main believe that these individuals must be inept and incompetent rather than treasonous.

              America has been slowly infilitrated by dual citizens and globalists with their own agenda manipulating laws, rules, and regulations to fit their end game and repeal OUR constitutional liberties while the bulk of Americans have followed their pursuit of happiness.

              Americans have erroneously believed that those persons who they have elected to represent them, and who have a moral, ethical, and legal responsibility to do so, would in fact serve the the voters rather than themselves.

              Americans have awakened to the truth and much to OUR chagrin.

              Americans have expected that these elected individuals are looking out for the best interest of the American people, because, well, they are suppose to look out for US. That is what We pay them to do. WE are the employer. They are the employee. Public officials must become public servants once again.

              Instead of fulfilling a noble role to benefit the voters who have elected them, Congress and the president have become a den of thieves, liars, hypocrites, cheats and cowards without honor.

              They are filled with treason, and have served other financial interests and the interests of other governments, because they have been bribed and manipulated by the lobbyists of the gangster banksters who want to control the finances of the whole world; advance a world of unfettered capitalism and managed trade, that is managed by the gangster banksters for their own benefit and to the benefit of their progeny.

              This is why the divide between the haves and have nots is growing wider and why there is a lack of opportunity in America today.

              The wealth of the nation has been drained by the gangster banksters under the disguise of euphanisms like free trade and open markets, which don’t exist. All trade is managed between nations and it is managed by the gangster banksters.

              The economy has been stolen and shipped offshore, and the banking industry was bankrupted by the bankers and then pushed over the cliff to collect the insurance from US. patriots must be elected to office again or there will be blood on the streets of America again and it will be the blood of the Powers That Be.

            • Great Post Durango Kid ….. Respect to you dude.

        • Mad Max, Anything that is associated with the racist Van Jones I stay away from!! Why don’t you go over to the Huffington Post and push this trash?

      24. Give me Liberty….or I’ll get up and get it myself!

      25. I don’t know about you guys, but I’m going to run out in the street and start chanting “Yes we can.” Or, more helpfully, “Yes, we have no bananas.” (We used to, but now we are so bankrupt due to Bankrupt Barack that we can’t afford them.)

        • JR- I was gonna get some bananas but there were too many bureaucrats to get past in the produce aisle. Some guy from OSHA said that bananas present an unacceptable ‘slip and fall’ risk from the peels and I’d need a permit, special training and a bicycle helmet before I could buy ’em. Lady from FDA said they contain so many vitamins they’re classified as a drug and I’d need a prescription. Then the man from USDA warned that something he called ‘salmon-yella’ might be in them. I thought, they’re bananas, of course they’re yella. Then those folks from PETB -People for the Ethical Treatment of Bananas(they’re in the phone book right after PETA) were picketing, and the ones from Greenpeace insisted I sign a pledge to compost the peelings. Then a couple of students hassled me for ‘promoting the exploitation of third world banana plantation slave-labor.’…It was at about that point that I remembered I’m allergic to bananas, so I got Oreos instead.
          Tomorrow I’m gonna go back and see if I can find “a lovely bunch of cocoanuts.” Anybody remember that one?

      26. There’s never been a recovery in the housing market. Unemployment keeps going up. Unemployment benefits are running out for a lot of people. We’re going to see more and more foreclosures over time. To me, it’s the biggest indicator of how bad the economy really is, despite all the lies from the mainstream media.

      27. Ginger had a couple.

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