Tempers Flare: Residents Complain Government Is Too Slow Distributing Food and Supplies

by | Oct 31, 2012 | Emergency Preparedness, Headline News | 418 comments

Do you LOVE America?


    Hurricane Sandy made landfall just 36 hours ago and already we’ve received reports of looting in hard-hit areas with some people brazenly taking to Twitter to post pictures of their new found wealth.

    Ahead of the storm panic buying left grocery and hardware store shelves empty as concerned residents stocked up on food, water, batteries, flashlights, and generators.

    With the run on supplies over the weekend, tens of thousands of people were inevitably left without essential survival items due to shortages across the region, and now they are demanding action from government officials.

    Officials in the city of Hoboken, N.J., are defending their response to severe flooding from superstorm Sandy.

    Public Safety director Jon Tooke says at least 25 percent of the city on the Hudson River across from Manhattan remains under water. He estimates at least 20,000 people are stranded and says most are being encouraged to shelter in place until floodwaters recede.

    Tempers flared Wednesday morning outside City Hall as some residents complained the city was slow to get food and other supplies out to the stranded.

    Tooke says emergency personnel have been working 24/7. He says the “scope of this situation is enormous.”

    Without any way to heat their homes due to power outages, no food in their pantries and water supplies potentially tainted with polluted flood waters, those who failed to prepare are now at the mercy of the Federal Emergency Management Agency’s crisis safety net.

    But, as FEMA has advised in its emergency preparedness guidelines, despite millions of dollars in supplies having been purchased by the Federal government, if emergency responders and the transportation infrastructure is overwhelmed, help may not be coming for days or weeks.

    While damage from Hurricane Sandy may not be as widespread or severe as earlier reports suggested it could be, what should be crystal clear is that any serious long-term emergency would be horrific for the non-prepper.

    In New Jersey some 20,000 residents are affected and already there are not enough supplies to go around and sanity is rapidly destabilizing.

    The government simply does not have the manpower to deal with an emergency requiring the delivery of food and water to hundreds of thousands of people. The saving grace for the east coast is that the damage was not as bad as it could have been, and residents were made aware of the coming storm days in advance, giving them ample time to stock up or evacuate.

    Imagine the effects of an unforeseen, more widespread disaster such as coordinated dirty-bomb terror attacks, a natural disaster requiring permanent mass evacuations of entire cities, destruction of the national power grid, or the collapse of the currency systems necessary for the global exchange of key commodities.

    Even those who set aside supplies for such disasters would be hard-pressed to survive; never mind those who have less than three days of food in their pantries.


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      1. Good article!

        • Who in the hell has 3 days of food in the house, I have been poor, out of work and a college student in the past and I always had at least some food. Three days of food is nothing. I don’t mind helping people out in trouble that is why I’m in the field I am, sometimes though you want to slap people and tell them to help themselves! Thank God for being awake, even when not into prepping or emergency management I still was not a helpless idiot looking towards others to help me. Must be the rural upbringing had something to do with it.

          • D-Dan ~

            I lived in Manhattan for a while during my misspent youth. Most New Yorkers (at least the ones I knew at the time) shop only a day or two at a time from the little markets and they eat out frequently.

            Not condoning it, but I can see how it happened, especially there.

            ~ D

            • many new yorkers don’t own cars, so they buy only what they can carry in a few bags.. thus no well-stocked pantries…. (I couldn’t live that way!!!!)

              • I would imagine not having cars would be another reason many did not evacuate, especially once the subways and train lines shut down.

                • I’m in a huge city with no car. The public was given enough warning (weeks). I suspect many New Yorkers just had no friends couch to evacuate to, given how different they seem to other Americans when I’ve visited. After katrina you’d have to be nuts to risk Government facilities.

                  The Hurricane warning was done weeks in advance, so people did have time to evacuate if they applied their common sense, while public transport was still running. The only exceptions to this I can think of were the hospitalised, the very elderly and infirm with no decent relatives to help them. Those who genuinley could not afford a train ticket,(there are people who live in the NY subway)constitute the other minority group.

                  Mostly though you just can’t fix stupid!!!!!!

                  My heart goes out to those who have carefully prepped for years, only to return to their homes over the next few days to discover that the hurricane has destroyed everything they have worked for. Some good people will be left destitute after a storm of this magnitude. Some first responders will be injured etc too.

                  At this point I’m praying for the first responders and those who have been made vulnerable through no fault of their own.

              • Me neither. I’d just be making MANY MANY trips back and forth until I got what I needed…

                • I can only hope that this WAKES UP the masses in the north east and others. Most people in that area thought a hurricane hitting them was a one in a million chance…well guess what.

                  I woke up when 4 hurricanes hit Florida in ONE YEAR. Most thought that would never happen either…but guess what, It did!

                  Living without power for nearly 5 weeks tends to WAKE people up. We were lucky enough to have a small generator at the time but that was about it. THERE ARE NO RESTURANTS OPEN WHEN THERE IS NO POWER. We had to count on other family that lived out of the state to help us out.

                  The few places that were open were running on generators themselves and most supplies and food were being allocated.

                  This was my eye opening experience, I can only hope it will do the same for most that are in this situation and others that are watching it unfold from the comfort of their sofa.

                • Tina: When I was a kid in the Pacific Northwest we had a hurricane type storm hit ( the Columbus Day Storm). I have never forgotten. We were fine and cooked for others but power was out for a couple weeks and many suffered.
                  My prayers go out the those who have lost loved ones, homes and belongings.

              • My daughter and her husband and two kids, one, two year old and one 12 year old live on Coney Island. He drives a handicapped bus for the city. Well, Sunday night I called her and asked her to evacuate inland to a church friends house in the Bronx. she said, we’er okay, we do not want to leave. The 12 year old said grandma I want to come to Maine. the kid was scared because the police came to the door to ask them to leave. Really they are a hop, skip, and a jump from the boardwalk.
                They have two cars. They lost them both. Flowing in the parking lot the next morning. They have no power. She was able to text my other daughter in the military in AL.
                I have been talking to her about prepping for a few years now. She is good young women, strong Christian, but sometimes her common sense just doesn’t kick in. I have always told her since 911 to have a bug-out bag and in aa emergency she would not be able to get out of NY uless she left in the first hour of any disaster.
                I think part of the reason she did not leave is because of the hipe of the lasty huirricain that past through NY.
                They have already started to loot around the area at night. It is so dark.The crooks in the area have broken the windows on Coney Island. ave. So yesterday they posted 300 police in the area.
                I’m wondering if she wil still think about Mom’s crazy ideas about keeping at least a few months food in the apartment.
                My daughter is tough. She grew up in rual Maine. Her husband is the city boy. They are alright because they have a strong Church Family and they are there for one another.
                At least they did get some cash out of the bank, because the ATM machines are not working. I told her Sunday, “you better get some cash in case the power goes out.. Her standard answer to my concerns about being in the city during any disaster or emergecy is,Everything alright Mom. don’t worry,You worry to much.
                Well, this morning Everything is not alright’ Not so much fun sitting in the dark at night with candles and not being able to flush the toilet for what? two or three days.No FB or computer games for the kids.
                My husband and I wonder if this will change their perspective on prepping.

                keep prepping, stay prayed up. Pray for me. I’m a little nervous.

              • There are very few of what most of us would consider super markets. Most stores are small mom and pop or delis. Plus in a small apt. just how much can you store, however how much space does a weeks supply of food require? Not much just a couple of Rubbermade containers.

            • They…were…warned!!!!!

              • Yes Jayjay They were warned and well in advance I might add.
                Now even for those who are not looting they are going to have a very big surprise when they do finally get to the store. It will be empty! Either wiped clean before the storm, flooded by the storm or looted after the storm. The only hope they have left is if they have enough cash on hand to buy from those who are there to gouge the prices through the roof. I wonder why they just don’t get their little shoes wet and walk to Philly and get a steak sandwich. No they will go to the courthouse and complain that the government isn’t feeding them. Shit! Just because there is a storm don’t mean you get free food. Maybe I’m wrong here but we are only 36 hours into this thing which tells me the crying is all but ready to start. Let the finger pointing begin.

              • Yes, Jayjay

                They were warned and well in advance I might add.

                Now even for those who are not looting they are going to have a very big surprise when they do finally get to the store. It will be empty! Either wiped clean before the storm, flooded by the storm or looted after the storm. The only hope they have left is if they have enough cash on hand to buy from those who are there to gouge the prices through the roof. I wonder why they just don’t get their little shoes wet and walk to Philly and get a steak sandwich. No they will go to the courthouse and complain that the government isn’t feeding them. Shit! Just because there is a storm don’t mean you get free food. Maybe I’m wrong here but we are only 36 hours into this thing which tells me the crying is all but ready to start. Let the finger pointing begin.

                • Barry said the gubermnt is goin to help them.

              • what they are not telling people is that it could take up to six months to get the power working right. when a transformer blows or stop working. it takes about six months to fully replace it. now most substations have more than one transformer in a a substation. but if all of the transformers are damaged or not working then that area is out of power for six months. most of the time when it takes about a week to get the power working again it is just downed power lines. but when you are talking substations that is a different ball game. electrical companies do not keep transformers for substations on stock. they have to be ordered, made, and shipped in. they may be able to rig something together to get the power back on but it won’t be nowhere near right. and that is if they are lucky. i can’t stress enough how damaged transformers in side of substations is a game changer. i work in the field of updating substations and depending on how the transformer blew it could have created a cascading effect and damaged other equipment in the substation. they will be lucky to get the power on inside of two weeks. and this have nothing to do with how up to date or how out of date the power grid is. and you have to take into a count of getting water out of the substation before they can start working on it. substations are connected like webs at any given time they are connected to about three other substations at any given time. so they can transfer the load of the damaged substation to another for a period of time as long as the substations around the damaged one is not damaged it self. depending on the size of the substation is another key factor into it. if the substation is larger then it will have multiple transformers. if it is small then it could just have one or two. with substation damage you increase the chance for roaming blackouts. and i don’t work out in the field. i work on updating blueprints that the field use.

                • OmegaGrayKnight,

                  The tornados that hit our area last March were a major “wake up” call for me.

                  I agree with you on how long it can take for transformers and other equipment to get fixed to get everything back up and running again. If the equipment is beyond repair and everything has to be replaced, it may take a very LONG time.

                  Home repairs after a SHTF event can also take a very LONG time. We were able to get our roof replaced after about 2 months. We had neighbors who weren’t able to get repair work approved by their insurance until much later.

                  Our insurance company was very helpful and easy to work with. When many people in an area have damage to their homes and businesses, you will have to WAIT to get repair work done. The insurance doesn’t pay for everything that has been lost.

                  Please keep these people in your prayers whose homes and/or businesses have been damaged or destroyed.

                • It does not take 6 months to get a transformer and power companies have them in stock. One day to replace

                • jimmy the reason why they don’t keep transformers on hand is because it is to costly to keep them on hand. transformers are not universal. there are different makes, models, load requirements. and on top of that different companies have different load requirements. some transformers are made to handle a load for a 138kv and others for 48kv loads. and that is just two of them. the reason why they are able to get power restored is because most substations have more than one transformer. the smaller substations have atleast two transformers that is where if one break down they can transfer the load to the other transformer. while the other one gets fixed. in your house you have breakers in your fuse box. when a surge hits they pop saving everything. transformers have the same thing just on a larger scale. what happened there was like somebody taking a buck of water and throwing it on there fuse box. and i am not talking about those little transformer on the side of the electrical pole. i am talking about transformers in a substation.

              • These are the sheeple who live in an illusion. If they think this is bad, wait until the dollar collapses!!!

            • Morning.

              This storm was bigger than the UK, if something like this ever came our way there would be nowhere to evacuate to, nowhere to hide. Being in the centre of the country, I may have a better chance here but it would be touch and go. Having said that, if this doesn’t wake people up, nothing will. I truly hope that those touched by it fare well in the coming days and that those untouched by it stop and think that where nature is concerned, there is never total safety and the need to be ready for whatever she can throw is something that needs to be part of your life, not a shopping trip immediately prior to the event.
              Take care

          • you are right dieseldan…most of these people do in fact have food in their pantry..but it is not the food that they want to eat for various reasons-it may have to be opened and heated, maybe they dont really like it, it is not convenient, so forth and so on. i discovered this the hardway when i was trying to help someone whose food stamps did not last the month…boy, was i a fool…she had more then enough food on hand-but moood and laziness was her excuse..never again!

            • Carynverell –

              I have to disagree with you. If you haven’t eaten in two or three days, you are not going to be picky about what you have in the house. Sure, in a normal situation one might say they have no food because they don’t want to prepare it, but not in the midst of a disaster – after 3 days without food, you’d eat spaghetti sauce right out of the jar with a spoon and it would be the tastiest thing you ever had.

              I really believe that they have no food in this situation.

              • As a landlord, I saw it firsthand. Cleaned out an apartment and found papers from a free store, along with enough canned food to make me wonder why the cabinets didn’t fall off the wall. The only thing this person used was the microwave meals.

              • Hmmm, maybe. I was temporarily living with my mom & sister when a freakish snow and ice storm hit Georgia about 20 years ago. No power for a week. My mom went to bed with the dog. My sister and I went out sledding. Which was stupid, but some serious fun. I still don’t regret it.

                BUT – then the reality all started. Yes, there were a lot of canned goods, but my mom had replaced the can opener with an electric one. As she laid there in bed, she was complaining about how all the food in the fridge and freezer would spoil. We had no wood, fireplace, etc. — just an electric stove/oven. She just stayed in bed and “hoped for the best.” UGH. I have no confidence those two would have done much for themselves on their own.

                I tossed food outside into the snow (it was freezing) and kept the fridge/freezer packed with snow and ice … all the food kept nicely. Yes, you can open a can without a can opener (not well, but who cares). She did have a grill which seemed like an easy answer, but it only had enough gas in it to get 90% thru one meal. So I made a stove out of some of the cans, grease, cardboard.

                Then I packed up warm clothes and hiked down to my grandmother’s house. She was in her 80s at the time and in no way prepared to survive. Still in thin gown in bed. I layered her up, made her a hot meal, got the can opener, and got her settled for the night.

                I imagine there were plenty of other people who would do just as my mom did. Go to bed and see if they could wait it out. And no way would she have ever opened a can of food. And honestly — it wasn’t all that appealing cold, even after I’d burned off the calories I had. And my mom had no intention of spooning anything cold out of a can until I made the little stove to heat everything.

          • Its a darn shame. I just got off the phone with a friend in So. River, NJ..an area prone to and expected to flood, 15 miles or so from me. His neighborhood lost everything, under 7 ft. of water. I asked him why he didn’t move his stuff out, he replied that the water rose 4 ft. in 20 mins….there was not time. I just shook my head. Some just don’t get it or just won’t. We had many days warning. Now he is desperate. No transportation, no food, no water, no power, no clothes.. He is an intelligent man. Why some smart folks continually put themselves into poor situations is a mystery to me.
            Good luck to the others along with him.

            • That would be the average American’s “normalcy bias”. It has not happened to me before, therefore, it will not. It only happens to other people in distant lands, My tomorrow will be like my yesterday, forever. Never mind those tin-foil-hat people…

            • My friend its called COMMON SENSE

          • exactly DD, you did what you could to be a responsible individual

          • Obviously your folks were of sound mind and character.

        • So, if they had stored more than 3 days food and supplies, they would be called “terrorists”…by the same people they are now depending on to feed them…

        • This must have been all caused by George Bush.

        • I don’t want no damn MRE”S where the hells my macdonalds. My dog wont even eat this guvt crap..

        • Must be the 47%ers. expecting the government to bail their ass out. I’ve been thru hurricanes in Florida. I laughed at people standing in line all day for 2 liters of water, and have to come back again the next day for more. You could buy a gallon of water for 79 cents. Spend 20 bucks. They had 5 days notice. I’m sorry, that I don’t feel sorry for them.

      2. I hate to sound callous

        TOUGH SHIT

        you had days to prepare
        you knew what was coming

        life is hard
        its harder when your stupid

        paging Mr. Darwin
        paging Mr. Charles Darwin
        clean-up in Jersey
        all aisles

        • And the worst part is that 99% of the American population will not learn from this. They will see it on the news, think “that won’t happen to me”, then run off to the mall to buy the latest namebrand product.

          • No they won’t see it on the news. Oblabber will make sure of it after all the political posturing he’s done the last couple of days. Heck the way he tells it, He’s got it all under control and the sheeple should be thankful they got a prez who knows how to not let a good crisis go to waste.

          • I have some namebrand favorites:

            Canned meat/Spam,potted meat,corned beef
            T.P./Charman, Angel soft
            soap/dial,Irish spring
            canning jars/Ball Mason
            socks/Gold toe

            You get what you pay for sometimes.

            • @HSL,
              good list, and regarding soap: a college roomate told me 33 years ago that he found Dawn dishwashing soap to be the best at removing grease and oil after working on cars. To this day I still use it, and I swear by it.

              Honda generator? just looking at one yesterday at Sam’s Club. Comparing it to the Humless solar generator.

              • make sure your looking at a honda generator not a generator with a honda engine, big differance

                • yes buy honda, good american brand there 🙂

            • Mmmm. SPAM.

          • of course. turning their attention to “why hasn’t the iphone 5 that i ordered not gotten here?”

            • Who needs Iphone 5 when you can get an Obama phone! C’mon man, get with the program. 🙂

              • Obamaphone – called univerasal lifeline coverage. All of us with phone bills subsidize those that cannot afford or don’t want to buy a phone. Free phones for everyone (so that the NSA can track the calls and what is said…).

              • hell yeah, become another soldier in the “free-shit-army”.

          • Actually they’ll turn their sights to their gods, the Kardashians, Honey Boo Boo, Jersey Shore and the like because that is where they learn to buy that name brand crap. Brainwashed into being sheeple. Buy, Buy, Buy because so-and-so wore it on TV.

        • days? Satori, EVERY American — even those of modest means — has had YEARS to prepare, not just days. My wife’s mom lives alone, she’s 65 years old, and she never got past high school; and she’s retired on a fixed and very modest income. Even with all that, she’s got stacks of canned goods, a diesel generator and enough fuel to keep her fridge and hot water heater going no matter what.

          It’s not frigging rocket science…but just watch, two weeks from now, people will still be bringing back their new bought generators, lanterns and so on to get their refund and go buy another flat screen or Ipod

          • What I have been witnessing here is chilling. We are fortunate to own our home with a decent lot. So many are crammed into condos and apts. When the power went out the shelters immediately filled. The worst for the apt. and condo dwellers is NO HEAT. Store shelves are empty, gas lines with $30 per car limited purchases 2 hrs long. It will be low 40’s tonight.. and the rest of the week. A shelter opened this morning about a mile from me. Just after mid day they were turning folks away because it reached capacity. I pray that our PSE&G guys and gals and so many others who have come from across the country to restore power work quickly. God Bless them all.

            • Yes, but whole crews from out of state have been turned away, not allowed to help, because they are not in the union. Really, no BS here.

          • …or maybe pay their rent…

        • clean up in nj…damn, that’s funny

        • Satori

          This mindset has forever been repeated in shtfplan articles and comments..

          Those who fail to prepare shall suffer the consequences.

          end of story..

          The few of us internationally who do prepare should not wring our hands over the absolute stupidity, ignorance,and sheer blindness demonstrated by these morons..just wait til some real shtf occurs as many of us expect sooner or later..be it economic,disaster, war, emp, earthquakes or any combination of the aforementioned.
          Personally I believe it will be economic first..and then after..God only knows..

          Sandy was just a precursor for what’s coming..

          Those who don’t heed the warning bells and prepare will perish..


          • And let me add this to my prior comment..

            Folks like Mac, and many others, have been out there for years yelling from the rooftops,so to speak, warning us of what’s liable to come our way in every which way..and how to prepare accordingly..and has allowed many commentators here and bloggers from other sites to share their opinions of preparedness..

            Preparedness does not come lightly nor does it come by happenstance..it is a conscious effort by those who have earnestly searched for the truth..whatever, and whenever that may be to each one of us..and then we each (according to our skills)applied that search and have arrived here..thankfully I might add.

            That being said, we have learned new mindsets and ideas to amend our individual goals from shtfplan..and have had many agreements, and disagreements, with others over the last few years..and I want to personally thank Mac for allowing me new personal correspondences,and hopefully more, with the likes of Manos,Daisy,and Burt..and of course Mac.

            We can persuade like minded folks like the majority of us..but the rest..well, like the saying goes..you can lead a horse to water..

            Hopefully, we will all survive the ongoing and oncoming collapse and civil unrest,inflation,currency devaluation, and all the other crap headed our way..

            Just wanted to say thank you to all of you concerned not mentioned..as you are many..


            • Really, all you gotta do to minimally start preparing a food storage is EAT LESS THAN YOU BUY…each time.

        • Satori

          Just off the wires now..

          hapless souls indeed!

          As blackouts linger, Northeasterners try to adjust
          NEW YORK (AP) — Homes grew chilly without heat. Food spoiled in refrigerators. Televisions remained silent. And people everywhere scurried for a spot to charge their cellphones.
          With many businesses and schools closed, people looked for ways to keep themselves entertained.
          “I really needed to watch the basketball game,” she laughed. “The place was packed. It’s amazing how much you miss television.”
          Meals consisted of McDonald’s and cereal.
          Hinkle is unemployed and relies on government help to feed her kids, so she didn’t have stockpiled food, water and other supplies.

          This is the majority of America folks..

          and how telling the situation is..and how dependent they all are on government

          and how totally unprepared they really are.

          a truly sad commentary..
          but then..we already knew this,,didn’t we?


          • “Fat,drunk, and stupid is no way to go through life”, is a great quote from one of my favorite movies-Animal House. But that’s most Americans: they’re fat and out of shape and eat way too much junk food and they never exercise. They’re drunk on the easy life and couldn’t survive one day in the wilderness. And they’re stupid to believe that someone else will take care of them if they get into trouble. Those now waiting for someone from the government to come make it all better are like Flounder in Animal House whose car was trashed by his Frat brothers, “Hey, you fucked up, you trusted us”! They’ve now gone from fat, drunk, and stupid to cold, wet, tired, and hungry. But as Ron White says, “You can’t fix stupid”.

        • They were warned and well in advance I might add.
          Now even for those who are not looting they are going to have a very big surprise when they do finally get to the store. It will be empty! Either wiped clean before the storm, flooded by the storm or looted after the storm. The only hope they have left is if they have enough cash on hand to buy from those who are there to gouge the prices through the roof. I wonder why they just don’t get their little shoes wet and walk to Philly and get a steak sandwich. No they will go to the courthouse and complain that the government isn’t feeding them. Shit! Just because there is a storm don’t mean you get free food. Maybe I’m wrong here but we are only 36 hours into this thing which tells me the crying is all but ready to start. Let the finger pointing begin.

        • Now thats funny . Sad and true but funny none the less

        • Right on Satori! Screw fearing sounding callous. I, for one, am glad this happened. Thin the freaking herd. Everyone knows it has to be done one way or another and thankfully Mother Earth has the balls to do it for us. ONLY in the human race are the weak, the simple-minded, the lazy, and (to invoke Darwin) those least able to adapt to changing environments, allowed to survive and even thrive!

          “Against stupidity, even the gods contend in vain.”

          Yeah, well, you don’t have to be a god to know enough to get the hell out of the way of a thousand mile wide hurricane and (gasp!) maybe even prepare for possible lapses in everyday services.

          Clean up indeed. Humanity needs a good scrubbing, and it needs to cut across race, creed, nationality, sexual orientation and political affiliation.

        • Satori, Your post says it all!

        • In a bad situation, it is very difficult to aid the stupid! You have to think of yourself and your Family first!

      3. Precisely why I keep my preps between my wife and I.

        • Right ON!! Just imagine what would happen if an EMP took out everything and these looters would know that no help is on the way and no police will stop anything. They will steal and destroy everything and anyone on their way. GET OUT of the Cities now and prepare. Look at these news clips and imagine it 20 times worse …. nationwide.

      4. I am here in California, safe and all so it just seems odd to me when I hear about people needing “rescue.” Were these people brain dead when the media told us for 72 hours there was this “storm” coming and you should take steps to “PREPARE?”

        I just don’t get it. If a storm / flood were coming and I had 72 hours notice you can bet I could be driving for 71.5 of those hours.

        • The people needing “rescue” are those living on food stamps, with a family of 20, living on welfare, medicare, unemployment, government subsidized housing. Their “preparation” is “How can I scam for more, what can Ioot?”

          • Not all of them, EA. I just posted about a friend of mine below. She and her husband both work and pay their bills. I guarantee you that there are many more working families in the same situation. Many of the areas hardest hit are really exclusive beach-front neighborhoods, either because they have money or because they’re keeping up with the Jones’s.

            They opted to be willfully ignorant. They chose to ignore the warnings because, honest-to-God, their brains just would not process how bad it could get. It was too unpleasant to contemplate it, and to prepare you have to think about it.

            And now they are paying for it with the worst experience of their lives.

            • Point well taken, Daisy. I was referring more to those in this dept…

              “Hurricane Sandy made landfall just 36 hours ago and already we’ve received reports of looting in hard-hit areas with some people brazenly taking to Twitter to post pictures of their new found wealth.”

              I read those twitters and by the language they were “trying” to speak, I found the hairs on my back slowly rising, thinking to myself, “what if they attempted to make themselves at home, in my living room, with the intention of removing my hard earned assets?”

              I wouldn’t take kindly to their presence, i.e. woe unto the looter that comes barging through my front door, holding a pistol and talking jibberish!

              By the way, are there any preppers posting here, out there on the East Coast? Seems like most are out west, or at least Mid West.

              • Sorry ’bout that. I misunderstood your point. Criminals like that would not be getting a very warm welcome at my house either.

                • It WOULD be a warm welcome… firearm barrels get warm with use.

                • @ Daisy

                  Haha! Not a warm welcome?!?! One foot inside my door and they would get blown clean out of their Jordans. Put a hole in them big enough to throw a donkey through.

              • We are few… but we are here… unfortunately. Central NJ. I can assure you… several of my friends who have been ignoring my advice these last few years will be joining our ranks..

                • Could you give us an overview, of what took and is taking place in neighborhood, on the streets, weather, looting, odd behavior? It’s always best for us to get it from the source.

                • AMEN!!!

              • Northeast Pennsylvania here (mid way between NYC & Philly, right on the Delaware River across from NJ)…I live in a rural area (lots of trees…or rather there “were” lots of trees-now there’s lots of firewood).
                We got hit here pretty hard but not as bad as expected. On Monday night the winds were stronger than any I had experienced before. All night we heard the wind gusts sounding like a freight train passing followed by the sounds of trees breaking and falling. It was weird. If you ever saw the movie “The Road” one of the most prevalent sounds in the film is the sound of trees constantly creaking and falling. That’s what it was like.
                We lost power around 6pm Monday night and were told that it would be restored between 11pm tomorrow (Thursday) and 11pm on Monday. Of course I have been prepped and ready so we’ve got food, water, generators, fuel, etc. to last for months. But the majority of people in this area were surprisingly unprepared and I’ve noticed only about 25% of homes have generators (and this area is prone to flooding & our power goes out if you sneeze too hard).
                There are multiple power lines down and thousands of downed trees blocking many roads. There are alot of houses and cars which have been crushed by falling trees.
                The upside to this storm (if there is a real upside) is that some people are waking up to the idea of prepping thanks to Sandy. I dropped off some supplies and butane hotplates to my parents in another town 30 mins away and they were amazed that I was this well prepared. Their attitudes towards their “crazy prepper son” has changed completely and now they’re going to start prepping themselves.
                Again, it’s not armageddon here but it is pretty bad…still no power, gas stations either shut down because no power or completely sold out of gas (with no resupply coming anytime soon because the roads are still blocked by trees.
                I have family & friends in both NYC and down the Jersey shore and they all have been hit hard.
                In NYC it’s bad- no one there believes this type of thing can happen to them so they are quickly running out of food and water, they have no heat, and arw stranded because mass transit and the subways are their only source of transportation. The longer the power stays out the more they fear crime and looters at night. Add to that the fact that New Yorkers are quite pissed off that parts of the city have been destroyed and are without power yet the city is still planning on continuing with the NY Marathon this weekend will possibly be the camel back breaking straw.

                However, folks down the shore have it worse from what I’m told.
                Houses that were blocks away from the beach are now covered up to the roofs in sand. Massive flooding abounds. Entire towns have been devastated beyond repair and basically no longer exist. The death toll is going to rise tremendously once they clear out the houses and buildings because many people did not heed the evacuation orders and many are now dead. Those who did evacuate won’t be able to even go back to their homes to begin the cleanup for a few more days.

                Even though the storm passed, it’s not even close to being done. I guarantee that we haven’t even seen the worst of the aftermath yet. Every day that passes without power, food, water, & fuel resupply, and too many people who haven’t prepared is going to just get worse and worse. Tensions are rising and sanity is growing thin in NYC.

                Oh, and they rescheduled Halloween for next week throught our area.

                Sh*t is definitely about to hit the fan in a way that no one can even imagine.

                • What a story. Thanks. If you can, keep us updated. I suspect Mac will be doing many more stories as the situation unfolds. Maybe he can dedicate one story to a continuation for those like you who are in harms way. And maybe you might want to get your parents down to your place. Got needed “security”, just in case?

                • afterthefallpa: you take care of yourself and your family. Keep us updated if possible. Wish there was a way to help out displaced like minded folks.

                • Thanks for the thoughts everyone!
                  I’ll keep you posted.

              • When you hear that language, just think .’. (front sight)
                I detest it also.
                Zero tolerance for intruders.
                Walmart just had Federal 9mm for $19.00 / 100 rnds!
                Great for practice.
                I’ll save the brass but man! That’s cheep.
                Reload W your favorite powder and HP.
                Now I think that any of you guys and galls can afford
                at least one box. Set up some card board and practice some
                double tap. Check out youtube and how the Navy Seals do it!
                * Prep
                * Common sense
                * Drill
                * Peace of mind

            • Willfully ignorant. That is a great way to describe them.
              Good luck to you.

          • Did you see the picturee of the ones being floated out of an area. Very few where the tpyes that would need recue Disabled/older. All were fat and look like SNAPers.

          • EA…It’s also the end of the month..factor that in for those that get checks the first.
            From personal experience–generational welfare sister, her daughter, and her daughter–, when it’s handed to you on a EBT or welfare debit card, it’s gone by the second week.
            Government doesn’t require budget classes for the moochers.

            • I would spend MY ebt card immediately too. Especially in this economy. Better to have the food in my house, than to HOPE my card doesn’t go dead before that!

              You can’t eat it on the store shelves…so IMO that is an intelligent thing to do.

          • EA Really? What a generic statement and sooo untrue….I mean REALLY you believe what you just said?
            Points down in my respectometer,
            Not that you would care.

        • I bet alot of those folks decided to ride it out because they feared all the looters and thieves would clean them out if they left.. kinda damned if you do and damned if you don’t..

          • They had no plan is the most likely reason.

            • Denial, Denial, Denial.

          • I agree, because that’s what I’d think about if it was me…but then, I’d have secured as much of my valuables and property as I possibly could BEFORE the storm hit! Much of the real valuables would be in my BOB – WITH ME!

          • wonder how many didn’t evac because of all the Irene hype last year?

      5. Well you can’t say we didn’t warn you!!!

      6. Step right this way ma’am. Glad you made it to our FEMA processing center. We can provide food and bottled water to you. No, you will not be permitted to leave until we have established it is safe for you to do so. But we will have work for you to do while you’re here, and activities for your children. By the way, I need to ask, do you or anyone in your group have firearms in your possession?

        • ………Great post 100% accurate.

        • The ovens, er..showers are this way….

      7. As bad as this storm was,it is a great opportunity to speak with others about being prepared.Strike while the iron is hot,so to speak.The more people that are prepared for whatever this life has in store for us,it is more people that are with our movement now rather than against us later.

      8. Question..(same old story) After they rescue the scumbags ..

        Who is gonna rescue you and I?

        Keep prepping and tell the frickin government to keep stepping!

      9. I was looking at all the photos and saw few if any sandbags around places that were sure to be flooded.
        Much of the damage could have been mitigated but it seems that they neither cared nor worried about what would happen.
        Serves them right. But im sure we will pay for their negligence and carelessness.

        • Capben, it’s amazing to think that the most densely populated city in the US is so poorly prepared for water, yet is surrounded by it!! Being only 33 feet above sea level, why has a physical barrier never been built to protect the city?? NYC is a very wealthy city and they have taxed people heavily — makes you wonder why there has never been any mitigation efforts at all. I guess the Mayor is too busy with things like Big Gulp restrictions.

          • Zoltan, that’s an interesting comment you make; I was half-wondering the same thing last week when they were warning about flood surges. I know that in London, England they create a gate barrier that rises when a tidal surge threatens to flood the Thames River. It was built quite a long time ago, back in the 70s I think. I cannot fathom why the New Yorkers did not create a similar barrier on their main rivers that lie along their borders, and the Atlantic. I guess hubris and the feeling of total superiority can leave anyone open to destruction. What is it? Pride goeth before destruction and a haughty spirit before a fall???? This is just a little wake up call from the Lord before the real shtf, don’t you think?

            • Hello Northern Cousin! With all that we have witnessed in our recent past, I feel it is only the foolish who will not believe and acknowledge the force of God. And yet despite every attempt to contain or reduce the power and strength of God through the centuries, the foolish continue to defy God’s will.

      10. nothing like waiting until after a disaster to go and get gas ???


        “More than 80 percent of filling stations in the state were unable to sell gasoline as of Wednesday morning, said Sal Risalvato, head of the New Jersey Gasoline, Convenience, Automotive Association.”

        “”With the kind of demand they’re seeing they’re likely to run out of gasoline within the next 24 hours.”

        a substantial portion of the population doesn’t have sense enough to pour pi-s out of a boot

        • “a substantial portion of the population doesn’t have sense enough to pour pi-s out of a boot”


          • Even with instructions on the heel.

        • My buddy works at Bayway refinery in Linden. They shut it down on Friday. They probably won’t be able to restart it until next year. I wonder if that will matter….

        • Satori, you bring up a very good point. To pump the fuel you need electricity. That is why I’ve decided to look into a portable solar bank that I can use to switch between essential loads. Yes, I have a 6K gen set but the gas is a hazard to store. I’m thinking that a couple deep cycle SLA batteries, 2/100 watt panels and a 2K watt inverter would be a good start. Just ordered a couple 12 volt water pumps for filtering water.
          I don’t see any danger yet but I hate the ice storms. I think it’s fun to just say piss on everything, grab a good stiff drink and set by the wood stove. Feels damn good!

          • Yep, if I could afford it I would have a rack of 8D or 4D SLA batteries and a nice inverter.

      11. I have to agree and second Satori..These East coast folks had plenty of warning and time to prepare for what will be a short term situation.

        What would happen if a long term crisis situation truely happened???..chaos..

        People choose helplessness.

        Survivors prepare.

        • If this had been a much larger disaster. Most would just die in place wonder where everyone was to help them.

        • great website!

      12. If you want to know the real truth about the aftermath of hurricane sandy go to web whatdoesitmean article titled. Obama orders mass confiscation in wake of superstorm .

        • Solidifying the power

          October 26, 2012 Executive Order — Establishing the White House Homeland Security Partnership Council

          “to develop, sustain, and institutionalize local partnerships to address policy priorities…”


        • Karen,

          I think the site you’re directing people to is a virus trap. I have read some of your stuff before and you are not to be trusted.

          • this article by Faal is misinformation–we all know about the EO that was signed.
            It is not about mass confiscations.

        • Karen: Sounds like bullshit, smells like bullshit, even looks like bullshit; So I’m calling BULLSHIT on your post!

      13. what gets me is you see pictures of the wide spread devastation an then people surfing ,down takeing pictures going about life as normal as if this is some type of cordinated event “bring your lawnchair” an there probably the same ones bitching that fema an the federal goverment isnt getting supplies to aid fast enough.heres my thought on the subject.” by failing to prepare you are preparing to fail” idiots

      14. After Katrina local residents cleared the roads in he small Louisiana community where I live. We didn’t wait for the Federal government or state. We took care of the needs of the community ourselves. The churches came into action and were relief centers for those in need. Neighbors taking care of each other. This is the way it is supposed to be. When goverment gets involved, watch our. Stick in there patriots.

        • You know I’ve been thinking all day…are we better or worse off with FEMA at the helm. I remember seeing Red Cross and churches and other charities/assistance programs come into devastated areas…be on the ground immediately after a storm with food and water and ready to healp the communities. Now with FEMA organizing any relief efforts, it seems to take much longer to put together any assistance at all. I would like to hear from people who actually work at or with those groups and get their opinions on what they are actually seeing. Do FEMA workers really think that no one should be able to get in and help until they give the ok? Does Red Cross feel like they can’t do anything until given the go ahead. Seems to me that it’s just another govt red tape failure.

      15. unfortunatly our system and government and media has programed most of us to trust them, and that it cant get that bad. I lived in NY for most of my young (been in NC for 20 years now) life and it sucked, every minute of every day was go,go,go. do this, do that, go here, go there, stay on the go and watch dumb ass mind control television. So it comes as no suprise that these people thought that it would not get very bad and if it did it would only be for a day or so and back to the grind, the government will get us through it, well guess what, you just bent over and spread those cheeks wide. My mom lives up there and said her power is not expected to be back on for at least another week, my brother lives 40 miles away in Newburgh and he has no power eaither. My mom charges her cell phone in her van during the day and they stay somewhat stocked up with stuff so she should make it ok. I hope evry one else makes it O.K. also and learn from their mistakes, and yes I do keep more than 3 days of food, that statement is for dipshits only.

      16. what is particularly galling about this ,especially in Jersey

        is that Governor Chris Christie is an IN YOUR FACE and
        STRAIGHT SHOOTING kinda guy


        he made it quite plain to people who were in low lying areas
        GET OUT AND GET OUT NOW !!!!


        “New Jersey Gov. Chris Christie says people who ignore Hurricane Sandy warnings and evacuation orders are “both stupid and selfish.”

        I hope this guy runs for Prez

        • Most of us here like him. He has worked hard to for us. We need more like him. Our legislature is still corrupt.. but that group has been put on notice.. I didn’t much like his sucking up to Obama today though…

          • Completely agree Righteous!!! I couldn’t believe how hard he was promoting Obummer! Just disgusting!!!

        • Could there be a reason why. until recently, not a lot was built close to the sea?

          • Harold,

            That seems to be the case for a lot of coastal locations. I love to look at those older 100 years+ homes that often seem to be built well away from the shoreline. And wonder about the new developments built or being built right on the foreshore……

        • I live a block from the ocean, at 3′ above sea level. a 1000 mile wide storm is approaching with an expected storm surge of 12′ to 15′. I’ll be fine.

      17. I just heard from a friend in New Jersey who told me that she and her husband are basically hiding in their home because of all the looting. Here are a few of the things she has witnessed personally:

        Her neighbor just had his generator stolen at gunpoint. He heard someone outside unhooking the generator and went out to confront them. They pulled a gun and then picked it up and simply walked away with it. Too bad the neighbor didn’t pull his gun first.

        Other neighbors have had people knock on their doors posing as FEMA workers with cases of water. Once they’re in, they rob the house.

        She didn’t see this but was told about it – others have been victimized with people in the uniforms of the local utility companies. They knock and say they need inside to restore the power. It then turns into a home invasion robbery.

        It’s disgusting. Never underestimate the evil of others.

        • On a side note, my friend is screwed, and a classic example of being unprepared. Also a classic example of who our neighbors will be in a SHTF scenario.

          Despite the fact that I sent her a list of items that would have gotten her through this fairly well, she chose not to prepare. I even broke it down to two lists, because they don’t have a lot of money – a $100 list and a $50 list, depending on how much she could spend.

          I sent her this a week ago and BEGGED her to listen. She was confident that NYC is the center of the universe and that any issues would be taken care of post-haste. She figured that since she was not right on the shore there was no need to worry.

          Now, they are shivering in the dark, down to their last 6 bottles of water and some protein powder. They can’t go anywhere because their car is nearly out of gas and the gas stations are either closed because of no power or out of gas. They are scared to leave the house because they aren’t armed and they had a notice from the electric company that Nov. 7 would be the absolute soonest they could expect power to be restored.

          While I feel badly for them because it sucks to see anyone going hungry, I just can’t wrap my brain around the decision – because when you are warned and instructed like this it is a DECISION – the fact is, she made a deliberate choice not to protect herself with provisions.

          • Daisy, I have pretty much given up on those people. Its like when I was first in college, I actually had some no talent ass clown at a party tell me he I was intelligent until I said I believed in GOD. He tried preaching at me about how wrong I was (ironic, right?) until I finally told him “hey look, how about we’re both right? When I die, I go to paradise and meet all my dead relatives. You die, and you lay in the ground and rot. Win-win”

            Its the same with these people: we live, they don’t. You can’t make ’em change

            • Fantastic Example I think i’ll “Loot it” for use in later arguments. Thanks

          • I’m sorry to hear about your friend Daisy, and pray for their safety. Hopefully they’ll come out of this with a different attitude, but don’t count on it.

            I live north of Baltimore in southern PA. Friday at work I was looking at the storm and at that time the bullseye was headed straight over my house. I thought about it for a whole minute. I had everything I needed to last a month if necessary without leaving the house.

            Lucky for me I lost power for barely a day. But I was prepared for worst.

            You can’t fix stupid.

          • There’s a saying, “Adversity introduces us to ourselves.”

            Regrettably, your friend is discovering the meaning of this. Hopefully the next time such an event occurs, and it will occur again, folks will look back and have a bug out plan or adequate supplies necessary to meet the emergency. Good luck to your friend.

          • At least you tried.

          • you mean she still has a car…In one piece?

          • Daisy, I am not sure who said it but I heard something once that went like “indecision is a decision.” There are a lot of undecideds out there. Unfortunately, the decision to remain undecided is the exact same as saying “it will never happen to me.” I for one went to the local grocer in our town a couple of hours before the storm was supposed to strike us here in Western NY. I was hoping to get a few pics of empty shelves. The store was empty all right, empty of people. The shelve were full and there were only about 8 or 10 people in the store. I picked up a few last minute things, mostly junk food for the kids. I then stopped at the local hardware and the owner said they had been slow all day. This morning I went to our local diner for coffee, you would not believe how many people were saying things like ” “see, I knew it would not be that bad” or “they always exaggerate” This is the exact attitude that decides winners and losers, survivors from the recently deceased. I just drank my coffee nodded at the right times and left thinking ” good thing most of them in there were overweight, none will work up the gumption to walk as far as my home.. lol .. really though, a truly scary lack of self preservation.

          • One wonders how many underground gasolline tanks have been contaminated with seawater.

          • Daisy, same old story – “you can lead a horse to water, but you cannot make them drink”…
            And they called us loco for preparing. I’m a former Boy Scout andor motto is to Be Prepared.
            Nuff said.

        • Daisy you are as usual Full of shit. You dont even live the United States Stay in Canada and hide like a draft dodger .

          • Oh, gee. Sorry, Anonymous. I didn’t realize I had stumbled onto a site that was exclusively for those living in the United States. I must go immediately and re-read the rules!

            My goodness, I’m SO embarrassed. It would be difficult to express how I feel about offending you so.

            • Daisy

              I suppose I’d better not come here either, shit, I must contact Mac and ask him to start an international version of the site for us foreign types….hang on, aren’t you American?

              Take care

              • Another Johnny foreigner here.

                Given that we are in the eye of a Global financial storm I can’t help thinking that a key prepping skill is to TRY & learn what we from the experiences of others BEFORE the shtf in our own neighbourhoods.

                I’ve learned a helluva lot about prepping from the warnings of Manos, a Greek on this site, alone. He’s taught me that some of my assumptions were wrong in time to do something about it. That’s just one example.

                These are dangerous times in which to have a closed mind.

              • Daisy and Burt: Don’t worry about this sour clown. A-Hole-Nonymous is an angry little twit with no friends and strikes out at lots of folks. Not only that, he’s a bit out of touch with reality because the Draft ended here in the U.S. in 1975.

            • Daisy, I think you should take this criticism as a testament to your contributions. I mean, if that’s the best they can come up with…

              • Thank you, AC 🙂

            • Anonymous; shame on you. I am an American citizen , where my family came from Germany / Europe and my Grand father lived in Canada for awhile.

              When the SHTF, I want Daisy on my side and have my back.

              So., Anonymous, leave the dark side and join us…., we all need to work together. 🙂

              • EagleDove

                Was worried about you!

                Haven’t heard nor read a post per you in a while.


                Glad yer back!

                • Thanks, Anton Hackl;

                  I have been working some long hours and some Saturdays., I just haven’t had much of a chance to read posts.

                  The comment toward Daisy got my blood pumping and I had to jump in.

                  Have a nice evening!! 🙂

          • Damn Trolls, you usually smell them before you see them. After shtf don’t even attempt to eat one,I understand they taste like mud from hiding so long under their bridge.

            • @ Claymation


              …’round here folks say ya best roast ’em on an oak 2×4.

              When tender, toss the troll & eat the 2×4!

              Gallons of Texas Pete hot sauce & lots ‘o Jim Beam helps wash it all down.

          • I like a good draft dodger. Better to dodge the draft than shoot the bastards forcing you into conscription, but either way works.

            • My advice to my sons, should there be a draft for the next war, would be to flee the country.

              No more sending our sons to fight and die just to enrich the global banksters.

              • Thats what my Vietnam vet dad said, but it was more like, “Try it. When you wake up at you relatives in Canada, know that I am sorry for the headache. It will pass in a few hours…” Lucky for me and my bad knees I never got a chance to test him, ’cause that hasn’t worked out to this day!

          • Any thing that happens there, happens there. We are tied to your economy, we have your FEMA camps here, we also got the same storm. We are not all like draft dodgers. Some of us work to inform the ignorant everywhere about being prepared. I think that Canadians have just as much right to comment as those from the UK. I didn’t read a comment from you trashing people from there. This country backed yours in almost every military endeavor your Gov’t put you guys in. You guys even killed our troops, your allies. Don’t dis Canadians.

            • @ Handy Cannuck

              Got your back. I like real Canadians…but screw the frenchy’s in Quebec…they’re worthless!

              If you ever come across ‘PATHFINDER’…tell him I said hello!

            • You Canadians are prone to violence. I traveled to Canada many times in the 1990s and heard numerous references to wanting to dynamite the bridge from Detroit. Who says USA is not a big exporter ? Criminal day trippers count as exports.

        • That is terrible! One big difference between here and there. In eastern KY most people have guns.

          SHTF situations seem to bring out the best and the worst elements in society. Within 24 hours of the tornado hitting here in KY last March, there were reports of people stealing things.

          There were also many good people from around the country that volunteered and helped with the cleanup.

        • Well, I could see drawing MY weapon and informing the “utility guy” that all entries into my property ARE AT GUN POINT for the duration. I could see the guy agreeing to leave while he could…any hesitation to that arrangement would not end well for him.

        • heck you have to get campaign money some how

        • At the very least you should have water for three days and lots of ammunition for your .45!

        • Thank you Daisy I just reposted your comments for my relatives in NJ. AS of now they are all safe and together in one home . However, no other contact since then Im hoping one of them will see the message.

          • Update on that: As soon as she got my text she replied that it’s mayhem in Piscataway: no gas , no power people just stealing gas when and where they can. Downed trees all over and power lines also. And No FEMA in sight. I advised her to stay in the house , all of the family if possible because there is safety in numbers. As there is not a fire arm between all of them. go figure. She also said she cannot get any news because everyone has cable……

        • More people with their head up their butt. Around here, nothing inside the house belongs to the utility company and they will touch nothing inside. It doesn’t take a rocket scientist to figure out that nobody needs to get inside to repair downed power lines. These are the types who get ripped off by the storm chasers after they pay upfront for home repairs.

      18. sure glad we moved out of the city in ’93.

      19. The real issue here was not the storm, nor the destruction, or even the theft that went one. The major thing to take from this is that the population looks to the government to take care of them in hard times. These are the very people that will be breaking your windows or trying to take you from your car when the Real problems begin. Oh I am not saying that I do not feel for the average family that found it difficult to flee town, or the elderly couple that had no one to help them.

        I am talking about all of the rest that take their daily bread for granted who feel that everyone else owes them something. Be ready and prepared my fellow prepares for we will have to defend more than just our stores of sustenance, and when it does come down to all of this, please lend a hand to someone less fortunate and prepared than you.

      20. Lack of preparation of your part does not create an emergency on ours. Use the 72 hour kits we told you to assemble. People do not change until they learn enough that they want to or hurt enough that they have to.

      21. If you saw it coming and didn’t prepare your an idiot. If you are taking this opportunity to rob, loot and steal God will be waiting for you.

        • …and so may be the homeowner where you hope to loot…

      22. I wonder how many people that go through a couple of weeks of hell, will turn the corner and prepare for the next time. I think about 1%. I hate to be cynical on this, but people after it is over tend to always fall back into the mode of what they have become- the non prepper. How many people really learn their lessons? I have known people that will prepare for maybe 6 months tops and then they forget about what they went through.

        I have always been perplexed about this, as there is such a good safe secure feeling when you have a well stocked up supply in your home. This security you would think everyone would enjoy. it does not have to be a flood either, an earthquake can nail an area for months or in the case Haiti for years. Tornadoes hit every state and can faltten an area like Joplin. Terrorism is a thought few people want to admit, but true weapons of mass destruction can be catastrophic. A pandemic is way overdue for a very populated planet.

        You know just for the thought of it, you can have a very concerned government that actually wants to help you but they CAN’T. Even wealthy governments of the world only have so much food and other needs. If they can’t get to you, even because through air lifting it in, you are on your own. Yet people seem to get more joy in going to the supermarket or walmart to get what they need, rather than having it right there in their pantries, closets, garage, whereever. Go figure. I personally have always taken much security in having everything you need within a short walk or within reach.

        It is not just that people don’t want to prepare, they feel it is evil or something like admitting to themselves that something is very possible that would disrupt or end their little convenient worlds. It seems to take one event after another to get it into the very stubborn minds of most individuals that, Hey having your own needs right there is the ONLY way to go.

        We had over the course of several years lots of power outages because of thunderstorm after another hit, yet only about 1 in 10 actually went out and got an electrical generator. 10% is not bad I though, but we are talking about 50 times the power going out. yet 90% of the people still “tough it out” without power. Again go figure.

        Truly it is a mindset, and people are set to depending on mr. government to save them. This is not just the U.S. either, it is all over the world except places like Switzerland and Israel that stress preparation. Israel cause most of the world problems I know, but at least they have the sense to teach their citizens to be ready. I guess the best advice is to make sure that your own survival supplies are in order, and you have a back-up bug out plan just in case your main home is destroyed. Events like this do make some people think, and the one positive thing that comes out of this is that just maybe that 1% might go up to 5% or higher of people that prepare.

        • @ BI I would hope more people would learn from this and be prepared for next time, but like you said only about 1% will( maybe ) . Just like my sister that lives in Houston she was in the hurricane that they had a couple years ago said she would be better prepared next time. Well this summer there was a threat of a hurricane I asked if she was ready for it, her response was well I need to get some water and some food and gas for the generator REALLY well I guess at least she has a generator It just aggravates me, she knows better and she has small kids. Guess some people never learn. And it’s not like she doesn’t have the money, well maybe not when you have to buy all name brand it don’t go far.

          • @ Rancher’s wife. Just what you said is something that everyone should be extremely caution like Red Racer says below whom you tell that you have supplies and even less so that you are a prepper/survivalist. So many people sadly are so much talk, and seek approval rather than act on their own words. Trust and confidence has to be one of the top five concerns that the prepper has in regards to whom they let into their circle of family and friends.

        • There’s nothing wrong with “toughing it out” without a generator, provided you are PREPARED to do that.

          • Sixpack – that’s my plan. My preps are geared towards a life without electricity. Generators are expensive and for now, I’d rather put that same money towards weapons, food and other needed supplies. I figure if we can keep warm in the winter and can cook food, that we could make it through a down-grid situation without a horrible amount of difficulty. It might not be a lot of fun, but we’d manage.

            • Agreed Daisy, off grid is fine with me. Lived that way for four years and miss it. Although I aged 10 years in that time.
              Nothing wrong with a wood stove. A cook book called ‘Warm and Tasty’, has excellent recipes for cooking on a heat stove.
              I personally do not chose to have a generator. Nothing I own is so desperate in need of power that I can’t live without it.
              However, the hot water tank is sure nice, but they make those wood powered also. Doesn’t take much wood either.

              • Thanks for the cookbook recommendation, Half Kin! I’m planning to pick up a dutch oven this month so I can do some practicing.

            • I’m sure the generators (loot me signs, if you’re unarmed) can be heard for a great distance.

            • Nice. I wish I had you’re stamina.

      23. hello,
        i just burned my 72 hour kits to stay warm, its gonna be cold tonite, the baby is gonna catch a chill !!!
        I can heat the house with the grill right ?

        • If I understand you correctly you ignored our constant please to evacuate [insert excuse here] and then you burnt your supplies to stay warm?

          It’s only going to get down to 42 degrees tonight so you could have climbed into your sleeping bag and breast fed the baby. You probably would have been so warm you would have needed to unzip it.

          You can’t fix stupid so when help eventually arrives make sure to give them your baby so it can be adopted by someone who can care for it properly.

        • You are of course joking. Be careful people will believe it is OK to use a barbecue grill inside and it will kill them and their family.

        • @ Fire mon. Please no one out there bring in anything that lets off carbon monoxide into your home to stay warm. Burning wood without an exhaust will kill people indoors. One of the best courses of action someone can use is to insult the house as best as possible from the outside. Stuff newspapers into cracks for examples. Then get into the smallest comfortable room of the house. Your body heat will help keep the room not as cold.

          Maybe other people could answer this for me, as I don’t know if this safe for people that are cold. Can you heat up rocks from safely outside in a fire pit, and then bring in the hot rocks into the house in a safe container and use this for a heat source? I know some rocks can explode when heated, but others will not. I don’t know if there are any fumes given off with this. Is this safe for someone to do to stay warmer?

          • granit explodes when heated but if the rock is black all the way through.. basalt and such they wont.. any lava based stone is what they use for heating stones.

            • @ onewithAclue. Thank you. I know a lot about geology but I have never tried to heat up stones for heat before. I truly was not sure if granite would explode or not just from sticking them in a fire pit. See how helpful everyone here is when we are not sure of something.

            • Basalt works great for covered pit cooking, like a pig in the ground….

          • I think you can heat bricks with no problem.

          • Granite has a specific heat of .19BTU/lbxdegreeF.
            If you had 100 pounds of rock and heated it up to 1065 degrees F, and were able to carry that into your house, you could get about 19,000 BTU of heat from it as it cooled to 65. A small kerosene heater will deliver between 10,000 to 30,000 BTU per hour. If you are thinking you would be able to take a 20 pound rock and heat it up a couple hundred degrees – it will deliver about 750 BTUs in it’s cool down process, which will have a decreasing delivery rate as it’s temperature nears ambient. Candles put out between 50 to 400 BTU per hour. I think the bottom line is that heating up rocks and running them into your house will warm you up, from exertion.

            • But there’s an old trick I learned in Boy Scouts using bricks.

              You heat a brick in the fire for a while, then pull it out and wrap it in a burlap sack and place it in the bottom of your sleeping bag. It will keep you warm all night.

          • I can reacall a news article from the 4 Corners area, New Mexico, that a young man died from doing that to heat up the cab of his pickup, in some way the heated rocks depleted the oxygen in the truck and he died of the result.

        • Fire Mon


        • The truth is you CAN use an LP gas grill for emergency heat but it not recommended. I heated my house (cool months) with a wall mount LP Blu-Flame heater for years. The only difference between this and a LP grill is the Blu-Flame had a low oxygen shut off. If you must use a grill for heat you have to crack an outside window to allow fresh air in. Again, I don’t think it should be done, just that it CAN be done.


            • Explain to me, then, why an LP range doesn’t kill you. Really, there is no difference.

              • Invariably, some doofus will read what you said, and forget to open the window, or won’t because it’s cold outside and leave it on all night. Every year dozens suffocate or set their homes on fire because they take shortcuts.

                That’s why there are warnings on these types of items.

                Really now, do you want to take the chance, especially with children or the elderly in the home?

                • Look, like I said I don’t recommend it but you don’t even need to crack a window and this type of heat will not kill you. There is absolutely no difference in the burners of a grill and the burners of a LP range other than the shape. The same fuel, the same oxygen use, the same carbon monoxide. There is more danger from burns and emissions from a kerosene heater than a gas grill.I think if you are going to freeze with a baby it is a good alternate source of heat. Sometimes you have to think outside the box and not listen to every ” DANGER DANGER” warning the media spouts out.

              • Lp or natural gas ranges have burners that consume a fraction of the gas as does a decent sized LP grill. A single LP stove burner output is between 1000 to 15000 BTU/h depending on where you set it (ie low-medium-high), an LP oven can output about 17,000 BTU per hour. A small freestanding LP faux “fireplace” is rated at say 30,000 BTU/hr. So you are dealing with a bigger burner, ie more exhasut gas (CO, CO2 and H2O), plus you are running that burner many times longer than your cooking burners! So the pollutants going into the air you are breathing is many times that which occurs while cooking. Add to that, unless you keep your grill very clean, you will be adding fumes from all the grease and oil and whatnot from your grill. Many people can’t deal with even a small unvented gas heater, heck even your construction can suffer from the added moisture resulting in mildew, mold, etc. Bottom line, if that’s all you have during an extended power/gas outage, use with caution and care, and provide adequate fresh air intake (open windows, use in the opened chimney, etc).

      24. ohhhh we didnt prepare either, the last of the food is going quick, we saw some deer run thru the yard earlier, we are going after them to feed our teenage son who is 300 pounds and plays video games all day.

      25. I dont understand people i have a friend of mine who was stuck in last octobers blizzard for eight days no heat,no power rotten food,swore she would never live like that again, well its a year later, still no generator limited food and excuses why not I give up people forget or say this will never happen again!Bullshit if it happend once it can happen again.Word to the wise get ready no one will be there to help you need to help yourself.

        • you mean, he was too stupid to put the food outside, in covered containers to keep it cold? Even in the garage or a shed would suffice, in that kind of weather. Got a snow shovel? pack some SNOW around your frozen goods…geeeez.

      26. This shoud be a wake up call but sadly those that are a sleep will stay a sleep. for those of us peppers we should learn from this prepare even more stay focused and be ready the time is at hand. beans bullets bandaids

      27. Their inability to plan and prepare does not constitute an emergency on my part. If there is no power, food and water by the weekend watch out. From what I’ve see it’s only been a show for politicians. How in the world can governor Christie get any work done when he has been in front of the camera for the last 48 hours.

        After today I think Christie is nothing more then a fat Charlie Crist. Why didn’t he invite Romney along for the helicopter ride today??

        • Because Romney is not the President.Christie is a Jersyian,sudo conservative in a state that gun laws are strict at the highest level.At any time did you here him go against the grain concerning their gun laws?Nope you did not.Fraud.

        • Trying to figure out if Obama and Christie looked more like Abbott and Costello or Laurel and Hardy in their photo op.

          • That’s a toss up. I think Laurel & Hardy though. BO’s the skinny winning goof.

        • Patriot I was wondering the SAME thing. I think maybe (giving Cristi the benefit of the doubt ) a little – arm twisting was in play. kinda like :”If you don’t chat me up fat boy, you get nooooo FEMA food.” I just can’t see that kind of gushing lovey dovey crap spewing from Cristi unless he had to. Timne will tell.

        • @ patriot one:duh, because the chopper belongs to the darkie

      28. Something to be said about personal responsibility.

      29. I have many times warned RICH99 that it is not just one event such as the economy collapsing that we have to worry about, it is the OTHER SHTF events that we need to be ready for. This is an example of someone that most of us have communicated with and tried to give the advice of being prepared for everything. From what I have read before RICH was preparing, but feeling that what was the point as it is 5-8 years away. “How ironic” it is that someone that has said over and over again that we were crying wolf ends up at ground zero of the strongest natural disaster to hit the east coast in hundreds of years.

        I still hope that RICH is all right, and I bet RICH is so happy that supplies were put away for this monster that came in. It also goes to show that the wisdom of so many people on this site, of course including Mac, need to be taken very seriously. There are so many people that truly know what they talking about here, especially about preparation. Two thumbs up to the people on this site. 🙂

        • BI: Your friend, said to tell you things are heating up at USGS on the NMF.

        • Well, perhaps RICH99 will return a changed man.

      30. This is a great wake-up call for all prepper’s. KEEP YOUR PREP”S UNDER THE COVER OF DARKNESS! No one from now on should know of your preparedness, NO ONE, other your family and not all of them. When it goes you will be on your own. Just watch your six at all times, talk to no-one. The beast is out there,and lurk’n for prey. They are learning so much from the sheeple and not just on the east coast. Be wise in everything you do!

        • Keep to yourself Survive its Death. During the mayhem and later is when you will learn who is at least a candidate for a group member. Are a group you may want to join.

          3 Day Don’t leave Home. Unless you are leaving for good. This even if it is a Medical emergency if they can be stabilize and are part of immediate family. (Your Definition of).

          7 Days Dont’t leave unless very important. Or you need to be Proactive in your defence (Offence).

          30 Days start reaching out. Short distance first. Maybe if you are in a building it just to another floor. In a gated area try 500 ft. One out in the Boonie as far as you can safely go in 1/3 of daylight in your area.

          Make an SOP and test,learn it Live it when needed.

      31. I was under the impression that I was so completely unprepared for any disaster event, yet when the news of Sandy came along I didn’t need to go out for anything.
        Had everything we needed. Now granted this was a mini event in the scheme of things, but family doesn’t seem to be laughing as hard.

        Thank you Mac for this site, and all of your amazing followers whom I have learned so much. I take all to heart as even small suggestions are of great value to a novice such as I. Thank You All

        • @tishie…I was just the opposite…I am quite prepared AT HOME, however, had to meet friends in Detroit MI on Friday..was to return home(east of Toronto)on Mon….

          Driving was so bad that we decided to spend Mon. night at hotel in Tor. and drive home the next day…….I am a bit ashamed to say I had to stop at CDN Tire and pick up a flashlight and water!! Thank God I did a bunch of shopping at Aldi’s while I was in MI. (:

          Guess I thought the water I had in the car would last the 3 days…..not!! Don’t think I will be leaving home for a long while now, but still getting a better BOB ready for my car today!! take care CC.

          • @cc
            Sorry that happened to you. I suspect these smaller events will bring us closer to understanding our lacks and double check on what else needs to be done.

            I believe that the Universes gift to me was knowing that my continuing preparing is well worth it. The naysayers weren’t laughing.

            Be well

      32. Maybe NJ and NY CITY residents will become more self sufficant and live like most of the country and outside their little box.Learn to shoot,change thier gun laws and get some fuckin balls.While their at it,get rid of their mayor and stop electing anti shit heads.Till then,screw em.

        • Maybe….

          But I’m betting that for the most part, they are just a bunch of lemmings with an “entitlement” mindset, that will look to the government to solve their problems and take care of them cradle to grave.

          There’s little doubt that George Bush will be blamed for this at some point.

          ( I know, I’m being ridiculous here….but I think you understand what I’m saying )

          These people were complaining within 24 hours of the storm that the government isn’t doing enough…fast enough.

          And you expect them to develop self-sufficiency?

          Most of the ones who were unprepared, will sit on their backsides until the cavalry arrives….and if that doesn’t happen, then they’ll start stealing from anyone they perceive as weak and defenseless.

          Pay attention to what is going on here folks. It’s a microcosm of what will happen when the lights go off on a nationwide scale. In this situation, food and aid can and will eventually reach these people. The power will come back on.

          But the time is coming, when it will go off…everywhere. And it won’t be coming back on anytime soon.

          And that’s when we’ll have a real zombie apocalypse.

          • Nuclear Zombie Apocalpse that is. Five went down, one came near flooding, one released built up ‘steam’, but the usually words were said – No immediate danger to the public…

      33. Does anyone see any holes in their preps based on this situation? Is there something that you plan to change or purchase after witnessing the disaster and it’s aftermath?

        For myself, the thing that really made me think was the people in the utility company uniforms. If the uniforms were legit looking and the person portrayed themselves well enough as a worker, I could easily comprehend letting them come in during a down-grid situation like this. That has been my major take-away lesson so far.

        Did anyone else learn something new from observing this?

        • Daisy Not time to argue.

          All companies issue photo badges now. Even back water water company like is in my area. It was force by the insurance companies due to the liability. In the USA I do not know about Canada

          Also always carry even in the home. If you do not know them even if you do. Pull you weapon and keep at your side. Also always answer in pairs one at wall to wall distant.

          These are proven ideas for lower the destruction from an Home invasion. Doesn’t prevent. What I am saying is kill them before they kill you. I would like you to be around to argue with for a little longer.

          • Maybe I’m missing something, but why in hell would any utility worker need to come into your house? For a widespread service outage there isn’t anything inside the home they need to do to fix it. If worse comes to worse, they could be instructed to turn off the main supply and you’d deal with it later…no?

            • BTW – I did make a note to add this to SOP post-SHTF…not to open the door to anyone AND to instruct my kids on that same thing. Seems inhospitable, but I’d rather insult someone than deal with consequences of letting a bad guy in.

              Also, to chain the generator and set it up where I can see it from inside. UGH. I plan to work on upgrading that per a comment Prep. Pastor made and set up an inverter & batteries so if I’m running the generator, I can charge the batteries and run what I need off of them and minimize use of the generator.

        • Daisy it’s very rare a worker would need to get inside to restore power. On a side note I have literally 50 or so flashlites and lanterns of different kinds and thousands of candles but this is the first disaster with young kids in the house, I will be buying a few more of the led lanterns, I’ve had one for 2 yrs it gives off a nice low light and is still using the cheap batteries it came with. I can not overstate how much I liked this route. Also it was an awesome experience for me to show my 2 and a half year old how to use a flashlite, shouldn’t have waited till we needed it but he did so well with it to help him and his lil brother see and get around I’m so proud of him. He also requested a big black gun (dads AR) and a bow and arrow for Xmas, he is one good lil shit!!

          Diesel Dan standing by

        • Daisy, after looking at the Weather Channel the day after the hurricane made landfall, and hearing about the tap water supply in Nassau county on Long Island NY being unsafe to drink or bathe with even after boiling, I immediately bought additional 6 gallon water storage containers, Katadyn Micropur water purification tablets, and regular unscented bleach. Enough to triple my supply on hand. Water is the one thing you cannot do without. That was my lesson. Cheers.

          • Pool shock for purifying water..indefinite shelf life if kept dry.

            • @JJ makes a good point on pool shock and Daisy I have heard that bleach has a shelf life, but doubt it personally.

            • don’t let it get wet in your house.

              • 6 months, M. I feel for all the people who think they are purifying water with year old bleach. To find our you poisoned your family trying to keep them safe.

                • another Jay, I’ve done quite a bit of research into water purification, but this is the first time I’m hearing of chlorine bleach shelf life. That warrants some additional research. Thanks for sharing that info.

            • Excellent idea JayJay. I’ll look into the shock. Thanks.

              • bleach has a shelf life of app 6 months,you can still use it for laundry/disinfectant purposes at 12 months,you just have to use more

                if using bleach to disinfect water
                make there there are NO additives of any kind ,eg scents,fabric softeners etc

                if using any type of pool shock product
                also make sure there are no other ingredients added

                • The Shelf Life of Bleach is signifigantly reduced when exposed to high temps. (like in your Garage). In my experience: after one Florida summer, it’s ALL toast. I switched to stocking Pool shock in a GLASS Container. I keep in all the way in the back of the cabinet under the kitchen sink.

                • Thanks Satori. Good information to know.

            • Just check the ingredients to make sure it contains the right stuff and none of the wrong stuff. You want shock that is ONLY calcium hypochlorite for an active ingredient. Store it in mason jars as it will eat thru the plastic after a while. If needed you have to make liquid bleach out of it first (heaping 1/4 tsp to 2 gallons water) then use it 1:100 to disinfect water.

              Oh, and that doesn’t mean you can/should drink pool water. It’s got other junk in it that’s kinda nasty. Of course, if you’re desperate…

        • @Daisy
          Anytime someone comes to our house and needs to come in, we make them get the ID out…no ID hit the road. If they show you ID but still aren’t convinced call whoever sent them and verify. You really have to watch for people ” checking on you” or “seeing if you need anything”. I hate to say this but TRUST NOONE !

        • I have big trees near me—I need a bigger chainsaw and more gas for it.

        • folks the power comes in from outside no reason for anyone to enter your home,,dont fall for it,,

        • no one from any utility company EVER needs to come inside your home.
          “We have to check your breaker panel.”
          No you don’t. You’re not allowed to check my breaker panel when it’s a sunny summer day, why are you allowed now?
          “We have to check your water meter.”
          For what?
          “We need to make sure your cable box is OK.”
          No, you don’t.

          Assume they’re all full of shit.
          When the power is off, “checking your breakers” is a bunch of crap.

        • NO Utilities are serviced from inside the residence.

          N-O-N-E !

          The meter can is where they stop.
          Everything inside the residence is the home owners job.


        • Good point Daisy!
          No One gets me in my house.
          I will send my guard here with you and back up if you need to check a wire OUTSIDE!

      34. In a SHTF Situation … “Predator or Prey” … the Choice is Yours .

        Obviously those Now Suffering in the damage zones of the ZOG Fed-Gov Geo-Engineered HAARP Man-Made hurricane Sandy’s Path have Chosen to be PREY .

        * I “feel” for the Children and Chronic Homeless who are at the mercy of the obviously inept response of the multi-billion dollar funded DHS Gestapo First-Responder Keystone-Cops response .

        ** If you Build Live in a Flood Zone or Ocean Storm Surge Area … Guess what happens in a Geo-Engineered Fed-Gov HAARP Created Hurricane – maybe FLOODING ;0p . I have no mercy for anyone who lives in these zones except for the innocent kids who live exist upon the mercy of their dumb parents who choose to live there .

        Predator or Prey … Darwinism is now in Effect !!!

        ~N.O. ;0P

      35. Daisy: You are right, make them show photo ID, and back it up with a look at their Driver’s License to see if they match, look at what they are driveing etc.. Oh by the way make sure you have a weapon with you at all times. If they don’t like it till them to hit the road, ONLY TELL THEM ONCE. After that do what you can live with.

        • Look for company ID. Even out of state repair person get there ID when they sign their contract for emergency repairs. Look for correct signage on their Vehicle. Timing also I never seen a repairman in the first hour of a power outage.

          Also remember officer carry ID if you do not believe the badge. Fed officers do also. Look at more than the badge.

      36. Oh Daisy a friend said HI.

        • Would you like to give me a hint???

          • Daisy: An old snake in the grass who you have a binder on.

      37. @ Daisy. Excellent question about seeing holes in everyone’s own preparation. I think one of the largest holes people might be wondering about is the old adage of not putting all your eggs in one basket. Natural disasters have that knack of seeming to flatten almost everything. Water proof storage areas are expensive but could be the only place at least part of your stockpile is safe. I know I keep first aid kits in floatable tough plastic containers for one thing. I knew someone for example that got snagged badly in the face with a fly while fly fishing from a boat. In the commotion the first aid kit fell overboard into the drink. Stupid things like this happen, but when we can expect the unexpected we are better prepared.

        • Look at your gear once and awhile and remember which end is which. And watertight and airtight is must Dead on. Remember you are storing some of the most inportant things in your life. Thing to support your family and self.

        • I would hope someone had a leatherman or other tool with small cutting pliers, to cut the hook off and extract the rest with minimal skin trauma.

        • I second that about waterproofing your first aid supplies. I have a small kit in a 9×6 LOKSAK and a larger med roll that I put everything into smaller zipper close bags (2×3, 3×5, etc.). It’s kind of a pain, but most of the things in it are not good when wet! I fashioned them after USNERDOC’s kits on YouTube (link to follow).

          I have no affiliation with him, but he’s an ER doc and now selling kits online. He has lots of good vids on first aid otherwise however.

          • Agree, once u think you have your ultimate bugout/combat pack built, then u put it up somewhere and forget about it for a minute, and check on it months later, I have found mold on bandages, and my pack is high and dry, go figure. Might use ammo box with desicant moisture absorber, even for first aid and electronics. Remember moisture finds a way, no matter what you do. Check your stuff frequently.

      38. Richter TNT for Seismic Example
        Magnitude Energy Yield (approximate)

        -1.5 6 ounces Breaking a rock on a lab table
        1.0 30 pounds Large Blast at a Construction Site
        1.5 320 pounds
        2.0 1 ton Large Quarry or Mine Blast
        2.5 4.6 tons
        3.0 29 tons
        3.5 73 tons
        4.0 1,000 tons Small Nuclear Weapon
        4.5 5,100 tons Average Tornado (total energy)
        5.0 32,000 tons
        5.5 80,000 tons Little Skull Mtn., NV Quake, 1992
        6.0 1 million tons Double Spring Flat, NV Quake, 1994
        6.5 5 million tons Northridge, CA Quake, 1994
        7.0 32 million tons Hyogo-Ken Nanbu, Japan Quake, 1995; Largest Thermonuclear Weapon
        7.5 160 million tons Landers, CA Quake, 1992
        8.0 1 billion tons San Francisco, CA Quake, 1906
        8.5 5 billion tons Anchorage, AK Quake, 1964
        9.0 32 billion tons Chilean Quake, 1960
        10.0 1 trillion tons (San-Andreas type fault circling Earth)
        12.0 160 trillion tons (Fault Earth in half through center,
        OR Earth’s daily receipt of solar energy)
        Earthquake Severity
        Richter Earthquake
        Magnitudes Effects

        Less than 3.5 Generally not felt, but recorded.

        3.5-5.4 Often felt, but rarely causes damage.

        Under 6.0 At most slight damage to well-designed buildings.
        Can cause major damage to poorly constructed buildings
        over small regions.

        6.1-6.9 Can be destructive in areas up to about 100 kilometers
        across where people live.

        7.0-7.9 Major earthquake. Can cause serious damage over larger areas.

        8 or greater Great earthquake. Can cause serious damage in areas several
        hundred kilometers across.

        • @ Red Racer. Nice list! This is one way how they tell, by the seismic energy, of how large a nuclear test is, say in North Korea. The last test was either a 4.5 or 4.7, so North Korea has the regular nuclear bomb like Hiroshima. Actually they revised the Alaskan earthquake of 1964 to 9.2 and the Chilean earthquake of 1960 to a 9.5 based on the amount of energy released. I was looking at some of the asteroid impacts and they can go way beyond 12.0 earthquakes because of the kinetic energy of the speed at which they are travelling, energy= 1/2 mass (velocity)2. Good list though to look at.

          • Great information RR!!!! Thanks for sharing. With 4 earthquakes in the middle of the country…..

      39. Victimized by Looters in a SHTF Situation … there’s more than one way to Defend your Property .

        You are only Limited by your own Imaginations in Martial Arts the Art of War … size is not a factor … Only your Imagination – Level of Intelligence is .

        Even if you can’t have a Gun or Rifle … you can make a Spear , Mace Club , Bolo , Fighting Staff , Throwing Projectile Chem Weapons are right in your cupboard beneath your kitchen sink or in your bathroom .

        Buy a Crossbow , Air Gun , Sling , Wrist Rocket Slingshot or Bow … learn to use them they are just as deadly accurate as guns at 25 yards .

        Build Shields 1″ or greater thick solid oak door-sill foot boards will stop a 9mm or smaller etc etc etc

        You are only limited by your own minds .

        ~N.O. ;0P

        • NICE POST CocoPuff !!!

          • @SixPack ;0) thanx … I’ve a ex Navy Veteran white male 50ish neighbor (diagnosed hyper manic schizo – he is a “little” unstable ;0p … likes to stalk women ;0P ) … who lost his right to Bear Arms to the V.A. VETERANS ADMINISTRATION PSYCH DOCS putting him on a NO FIRE-ARMS LIST (he even makes me “wary” a bit which it takes a lot to do … so its justifiable denial of his access to fire-arms by his V.A. Psych Doc’s as far as I’m concerned) .

            *** well he has since his being banned fire-arms manufactured his own versions of “6 foot long combat hand spears” with 10″ stainless-steel steak knives w/ hand grips and even bought himself a couple of bow’s and rambo knives ;0P . And he is now since i saw his home-made weapons definitely a neighbor i will be watching in a shtf scenario as he is very narcissistic self centered with a grudge on some of the women/ mothers in my complex and has been a target of some local harassment which he brought on himself from trying too hang around neighborhood kids – which is a “no no” in my book as he is 50 ‘0P . (i know all about this simply because he told me his version all about it and even showed me his home-made weapons and i heard the story from other neighbors as well when I inquired as too what happened ) two sides every story .

            I post this comment simply for this reason – beware thy neighbors in a shtf situation . you can never really KNOW YOUR NEIGHBORS – UNTIL A SITUATION ARISES WHERE THEIR TRUE COLORS WILL SHINE THROUGH .

            BEWARE THY NEIGHBOR yet give them a chance too prove themselves is what i’m saying here and just because the VA / Feds have denied them / you access to fire-arms doesn’t mean they / you have to be a completely helpless person in a SHTF SCENARIO or against harassment from bad neighbors .

            Use your Imaginations .

            footnote : Also Beware the Weird Unstable Neighbor … he/ she may not be as helpless or “Safe” as you think he/ she is and he/ she may be harboring still years old grudges for perceived past misdeeds done upon him by other neighbors .

            BE PREPARED FOR ANYTHING AND EVERYTHING , GIVE FOLKS NEIGHBORS A CHANCE … BUT BEWARE THY NEIGHBOR AS WELL one can never really know what it is they are thinking harboring planning preparing for in a SHTF SCENARIO !

            I give everyone a chance to prove themselves … only once .

            FOOL ME TWICE … SHAME ON ME !

            ~N.O. ;0P

            • You make a really good point about neighbors. Neighbors will likely be a huge risk factor post-disaster. I’ve had some horrible ones in the past.

              Now, I have two neighbors within a mile. One family is great (they are the closest). Very well-armed (he is a hunter), very well-stocked with food and supplies, and they seem like good people – when I moved in, they immediately came over to unload my truck for me and always offer assistance and advice. They own the property I rent.

              The other one makes me uncomfortable – he’s about a mile away and he just seems sketchy. He’s scared to death of my dog, who took an instant dislike to him the first time he wandered nearby. He asked me “Does your dog bite?” and I replied “Only if she can reach you” and then gave her a treat as she continued to growl and snarl at him. (He was rather offended that I praised her for behaving aggressively.)

              That neighbor is definitely the person I’d be watching out for in a worst case scenario.

              However, even the nice ones know nothing about the security modifications I’ve made to the house since I moved in, the extent of my supplies or our defense plans. I think, while hoping that people react positively and with good character, you have to be ready for them to disappoint you, no matter how nice they are when life is easy.

              • I have a standing rule — If my pet doesn’t like them, I don’t either. I’ve learned to trust their instincts, they are more acute than mine sometimes, dog or cat. I would’ve treated mine for looking out as well, and doing it right in front of him made a wonderful point.

              • I’m willing to bet the passage of time will prove your dog’s instincts to be spot on.

                Noone enters my home in shtf without doggy approval – a good dog can smell bad intentions a mile off.

              • Trust your dog with respect to neighbor #2. I have found canine instincts about people to be very near 100% accurate.

            • agreed.

            • Awesome post CocoPuff!

        y/m/d h:m:s deg deg km

        map 2.5 2012/10/31 19:40:37 35.908N 96.902W 15.5 3 km ( 2 mi) WNW of Agra, OK
        map 2.5 2012/10/31 07:05:59 36.087N 89.772W 6.3 16 km (10 mi) SW of Caruthersville, MO
        map 1.5 2012/10/30 23:54:59 36.142N 89.448W 11.0 13 km ( 8 mi) NNW of Dyersburg, TN
        map 2.2 2012/10/29 10:45:25 35.497N 97.277W 5.0 12 km ( 7 mi) ENE of Midwest City, OK
        MAP 3.9 2012/10/29 07:39:24 35.205N 90.636W 23.1 9 km ( 5 mi) SW of Parkin, AR
        map 2.9 2012/10/29 06:49:05 35.611N 81.999W 6.1 6 km ( 4 mi) SSE of West Marion, NC
        map 2.4 2012/10/29 01:19:10 36.602N 91.657W 2.1 1 km ( 1 mi) NW of Koshkonong, MO
        map 2.1 2012/10/28 06:26:20 35.520N 92.218W 3.2 6 km ( 4 mi) SSW of Higden, AR
        MAP 3.1 2012/10/27 23:00:34 35.466N 96.581W 4.9 22 km (14 mi) NW of Bearden, OK
        map 1.9 2012/10/26 22:07:38 35.506N 92.235W 6.4 8 km ( 5 mi) SSW of Higden, AR
        map 2.1 2012/10/26 21:00:41 35.511N 92.240W 4.1 8 km ( 5 mi) SSW of Higden, AR
        map 2.0 2012/10/26 19:36:20 35.511N 92.242W 6.4 8 km ( 5 mi) SSW of Higden, AR
        map 2.4 2012/10/26 19:09:13 35.522N 92.231W 0.1 6 km ( 4 mi) SSW of Higden, AR
        map 2.0 2012/10/26 07:53:32 35.518N 92.230W 3.7 7 km ( 4 mi) SSW of Higden, AR
        map 1.9 2012/10/26 03:49:28 36.189N 89.523W 5.2 9 km ( 6 mi) SSW of Ridgely, TN
        map 1.2 2012/10/26 01:32:17 36.598N 89.579W 9.6 5 km ( 3 mi) WNW of New Madrid, MO
        map 2.5 2012/10/25 23:34:59 43.355N 78.634W 5.0 7 km ( 4 mi) ENE of Olcott, NY
        map 2.0 2012/10/25 19:49:56 35.521N 92.225W 6.6 6 km ( 4 mi) SSW of Higden, AR
        map 2.4 2012/10/25 00:21:30 34.691N 84.942W 11.3 9 km ( 5 mi) SSE of Dalton, GA
        map 2.3 2012/10/24 03:20:17 45.222N 74.367W 14.2 40 km (25 mi) NW of Chateaugay, NY
        MAP 3.4 2012/10/21 05:44:15 35.653N 97.215W 5.0 11 km ( 7 mi) ESE of Arcadia, OK
        map 1.3 2012/10/20 21:54:28 36.530N 89.570W 4.7 7 km ( 5 mi) SSW of New Madrid, MO
        map 1.3 2012/10/20 17:09:20 36.556N 89.609W 8.4 8 km ( 5 mi) WSW of New Madrid, MO
        MAP 3.6 2012/10/18 00:21:11 42.221N 101.960W 5.0 75 km (46 mi) E of Alliance, NE
        MAP 3.2 2012/10/16 23:42:40 35.678N 97.115W 5.0 8 km ( 5 mi) S of Fallis, OK
        map 2.7 2012/10/16 21:57:31 32.483N 96.960W 12.1 3 km ( 2 mi) E of Midlothian, TX
        map 2.3 2012/10/15 08:16:01 33.618N 85.788W 0.1 4 km ( 3 mi) E of Oxford, AL
        map 1.1 2012/10/14 08:00:08 36.461N 89.579W 11.0 11 km ( 7 mi) ENE of Portageville, MO
        map 1.5 2012/10/13 08:29:40 36.246N 89.459W 6.5 3 km ( 2 mi) SE of Ridgely, TN
        map 1.8 2012/10/13 02:08:33 35.247N 84.240W 6.8 14 km ( 9 mi) SSE of Tellico Plains, TN
        map 2.5 2012/10/12 23:03:08 34.971N 84.353W 8.0 3 km ( 2 mi) SE of McCaysville, GA
        map 1.4 2012/10/11 02:19:35 36.538N 89.602W 8.6 9 km ( 5 mi) SW of New Madrid, MO
        map 2.9 2012/10/10 07:41:46 35.554N 97.366W 4.2 3 km ( 2 mi) ENE of Lake Aluma, OK
        map 2.3 2012/10/09 19:31:52 34.336N 90.520W 17.0 6 km ( 4 mi) WSW of Jonestown, MS
        map 0.9 2012/10/09 15:26:35 36.273N 89.474W 6.5 2 km ( 1 mi) NE of Ridgely, TN
        map 1.3 2012/10/09 14:16:37 36.271N 89.477W 6.4 1 km ( 1 mi) NE of Ridgely, TN
        MAP 3.3 2012/10/09 03:49:07 36.083N 97.386W 8.9 5 km ( 3 mi) NW of Fallis, OK
        map 1.6 2012/10/08 16:18:39 36.377N 89.544W 9.5 6 km ( 4 mi) W of Tiptonville, TN
        map 1.6 2012/10/08 01:23:32 36.528N 89.580W 6.1 8 km ( 5 mi) SW of New Madrid, MO
        map 2.3 2012/10/08 00:28:43 37.309N 83.505W 9.8 24 km (15 mi) SE of Booneville, KY
        map 2.2 2012/10/07 08:39:13 37.722N 77.755W 15.2 23 km (14 mi) WNW of Glen Allen, VA
        map 1.7 2012/10/06 20:04:40 36.484N 89.594W 11.6 11 km ( 7 mi) NE of Portageville, MO
        map 2.5 2012/10/04 13:27:49 45.135N 74.162W 15.2 24 km (15 mi) NNW of Chateaugay, NY
        map 2.1 2012/10/03 14:13:20 34.392N 92.726W 0.1 5 km ( 3 mi) NE of Perla, AR
        map 1.7 2012/10/03 00:02:00 44.425N 74.791W 5.0 35 km (22 mi) NW of Tupper Lake, NY
        map 1.4 2012/10/02 21:39:12 36.262N 89.549W 5.3 5 km ( 3 mi) W of Ridgely, TN
        map 1.3 2012/10/01 23:30:28 36.487N 89.551W 9.6 11 km ( 7 mi) S of New Madrid, MO
        map 1.5 2012/10/01 04:29:12 36.526N 89.663W 12.2 12 km ( 7 mi) NNE of Portageville

        • @ Red Racer. This is very interesting. Look at the spike of earthquakes on the New Madrid 2 days before the 7.7 earthquake in Canada. The New Madrid to anyone not familar to latitude and longitude are about 34-37 degrees north by about 86-93 degrees west. All other4 earthquake are on different faults. Some of the other earthquakes are the results of fracking for natural gas.

          • @ BI, Still “tuned in” to your commentary very regularly. Activity on the New Madrid via potential Carribean plate activity is looking potentially ominous. The “frozen” methane lake under the Gulf could make this rather spectacular in a worse-case-scenario. Keep up the great work.

            • @ yental. Earthquake faults are so tied into the plates, even in the middle of plates. I am not very fimilar with the methane issue in the Gulf as I should be, but the Gulf use to be quite active eons ago. You know what I was thinking today about is just how many people are without light in their homes around the hurricane affected areas. Without light? What happens to candles that everyone should have in their home? Oh yeah, they are at garage sales for a nickel a piece during the summer. I have picked up so many candles for dirt cheap, they provide light and a little heat. I don’t know why people don’t have lots of candles, they make it so much better to bear with WHEN SHTF. Sure hope people will start to buy candles in the future. Will continue to look at the plates, and hopefully someday save some people.

              • Right, candles are as basic a light source as it gets. I prefer the tall, fat ones that seem to burn forever. Unscented please. And lots of matches/lighters.

                • @ yental. You know what you can do to heat up food and water using candles is to make a stand out of the bottom portion of those tomato cages. Those tomato cages have extended pieces of metal that go into the ground can be bended around to make a more sturdy base for your smaller pans to sit on. Then cut off the three long pieces of the base to the size you would use. Place candles under this and the heat rising from the candles will slowly heat what you need sitting on this base. These are actually sturdy and the metal is thick enough not to warp. Make sure that whatever this little platform sits on is heat resistant and that the candle wax of course doesn’t dip wax everywhere. Also for more light, use reflective materials near to the candles, like aluminum foil or mirrors, to enhance all the light you can get from the candle.

                • Just happen to have some of these cages collecting dust. Good suggestion. YOU really are “full-of-it”. And I mean that in the best possible interpretation.

        • Fascinating. Thanks!!!!

      41. Good Evening All,

        I am horrified by the amount of destruction we are witnessing along the east coast. This immediately begs the question, “What would the results have been if this storm had been more comnpact, with yet higher wind speeds?”, makes me shudder to just think of it.
        My prayers go out for all those people cold and wet in the dark tonight. Having said that, is it just me or has anyone else wondered at the layout of ‘Breezy Point’? Why, in His Name, would anyone think that building in such a place would be even proximately prudent?! I’ve watched – as have you all – as year after year the denizens of Florida (and other places) are reduced to the stone-age time and again by the hurricanes along our coastline’s… I just don’t get it and probably never will I suppose.
        On a completely different note, for those whose belongings and property have been flooded in this event take note of the following;
        Borax…Sodium Tetraborate Decahydrate is now your VERY BEST FRIEND. I am not entirely sure wether or not salt-water allows for the proliferation of mildew and other fungii inasmch as I not coastal, however, compounds containing Boron are utterly inimical to all fugal-based life. As an example, mildew, which we are all familiar with as omnipresent in the world at large from the occaisional load of clothes left too long in the wash machine, is UTTERLY interdicted by the presence of a cup of Borax added to the wash cycle…even AFTER the clothes have been through the rinse cycle! I regularly use it in all my wash and on more than one occaision when an emergency has arisen and I was called out from home with a load finishing up there has never been the slightest hint of mildew smell post-facto. On one extraordinary occaision – when a family member was badly injured in an automotive accident – I was compelled to drive out from home 155 miles with a load going. 4 DAYS later, when I returned, there was NO SMELL at all.
        Technically, Borax, as well as Boric acid, is both fungicidal – it simply precludes any further fungal manifestation – and also it is bacteriostatic, that is, in any sufficient concentration, it prevents most single celled organsim’s from replicating, ie, stops cell-division. Borax is only toxic if ingested; it will give you a case of diarhea that’ll make ‘Montezuma’s Revenge’ look like a form of casual entertainment though since it will promptly ‘turn-off’ all your intestinal flora; think ‘Cholera’…don’t get it on ANYTHING that goes in a human mouth, even in small quantities.
        Given the preceding it should be obvious that anything which has been in contact with any septic effluvious should ABSOLUTELY be washed therewith along with soap, of course. The primary non-catastrophe usage of it is as a laundry detergent booster. It has the property that it binds with all the various calcites found in hard-water allowing the soap to actually dissolve and ionize in the water…a neccesary precursor to it being able to act as a detergent. How many of you with hard water have ever used a powdered laundry soap in the wash only to later ectract your clothes and find lumps of undissolved, clumped detergent? That’s a thing of the past if your using Borax as a booster.
        Many years ago, before the advent of disposable diapers, all women knew that the only way the get them clean was to add same to the laundry, ask your Gradmother, she’ll remember it. Any of you occaisionally get ‘racing stripes’ up the backside of your shorts and can’t get it out… Borax again. Gardeners regulaly use it to interdict funguses on rose bushes and it’s safe enough that the maker indicates that excess may be mixed into you compost in the garden without ill effect. Hope this can help someone, I KNOW it’s tough right now for you all, keep at it, it’ll get better as you work through it
        Lastly, PLEASE think about RELOCATING away from the shoreline in the future…please?

        @ BI here…Howdy,
        Though I don’t subscribe to any of the ‘Mayan Doomsday’ stuff I recently happened over something that might jsut intrigue you specifically – seismically that is – when you get a moment try googling ‘Hopi Prophecy’ specifically with a slant on thier version of the ‘End Times’…an interesting read. Glad to see that PO’d Patriot is posting, it seemed from one your previous post that you were very much in ‘Harm’s way’, Glad you’re still with us…How did you fare through the storm? Till later All.

        • I mix Arm and Hammer washing soda and Zote with my Borax.
          Are you saying I don’t need to??

          • Hi JJ,

            I THINK that A&H is a sodium silicate based booster, I could be wrong, check the label. For any volume of water same has a finite ‘carrying’ capacity, that is, it can (at a given temperature) only dissolve, ‘solvate’ a fixed amount of other substances. Having said that then the addition of multiple ‘additives’ takes up that much more of the carrying capacity of the water. With the sole exception of Chlorine bleach – which I use in tandem with Borax when doing whites – I’ve never found it neccessary to utilize any other laundry additives. Also, though I know that Chlorine bleach will – in and of itself – not directly interact with the ‘SBD’, Borax in short, I’m not sure whether any of the silicate based additives would…I don’t need them since it works so well, so I’ve never had occasion to look it up. Also, I’m not sure what ‘Zole’ is, I’ve never seen it before…it may be a regional name for something that’s labeled differently where I am.

        • @ JustOneGuy. I was reading about the Hopis and they use a lot of symbolism, much like Nostradamus does that unfortunately is open to wide speculation and interpretation. I would like to say the signs are there, but there are too many meanings to what they have written. i know that one American Indian group was so excited about the birth of a white buffalo and it was approaching its first birthday and some mongoloid that somehow figured out how to get out of their cage went out and killed it. This was viewed by many as a terrible sign.

          I have always wondered about the Mayans because there may be some science behind it. The galaxy and that too the universe has all sorts of areas of dark space, not black holes, but almost like dead areas like the way the doldrums are for clipper ships that got stuck without wind for weeks at a time. Entering one of these dead areas I imagine would cause all sorts of solar disruptions and even planetary problems. I wonder if around Dec.21 this is what the solar system is going to do. I have always speculated that someone might have known that every certain number of years there is a brown dwarf star (one that didn’t have enough heat to flare up to a regular star) that has a highly eliptical order and it starts to get near to the solar system and this causes all sorts of problems.

          Really outlandish thoughts I have pondered over are people from other worlds that have travelled faster than the speed of light using whatever method, and told someone centuries ago that something terrible was coming like a gamma ray pulse, for example a supernova went off X number of years ago and the light from this has not yet reached the planet. A strong enough gamma ray pulse would fry much of the planet and was believed to have possibly caused the most extensive extinction period of 95% of all species during the Permian Period about 260 million years ago.

          I think that something is going on, I don’t know if it will occur in 2012 or later, but records are being set all the time. The weather experts have never seen a storm as big as Sandy. The Pressure dropped to 939 MB at one point which tied the all time low for some Hurricane that never came ashore that far north. This one did, and the lowest previous pressure of a hurricane coming ashore this far north was the one in 1938 and its pressure was 946 MB. By the way 939 MB is like the pressure you would experience at about 2300 feet in elevation, that is pretty strong. For about every inch you lose in pressure it is like going up in elevation about 1000 feet. So Hurricane Wilma had a pressure that was down about 26 inches so that would be the same as being about 4000 feet up at the center of the hurricane. Talk about intense.

          Anyway, something is going on, the animals sure feel it. I noticed this summer that the insects were extremely aggresive and spastic acting. The real event that would wax the civilization has not happened yet. My bet for a civilization ending event would come from two sources, super plague, or super volcano. The super volcano would be in the southern hempishere. The super plague would come out of the slums of India. These events would be difficult to recover from. That is the key word here, recovery. Manmade catastrophe would be the third world war, or some nutso country releasing some genetically engineered virus into the population. Nice thoughts aren’t they. This is my take on the most likely horrors that could happen.

          • @BI, those 2 5+ earthquakes in the middle of the Atlantic make me very nervous for southern Cali… We’re on the upswing of earthquakes, wonder how many we’ll hit this time.

            • I meant Pacific.

              • @ you don’t need to know. I would watch the ends of the San Andreas for activity. The middle section of it are so locked that you will see usually only microquakes under 2 pointers. I would watch for the Cascadia fault going in which the San Andreas could then move into the area left behind. I would watch for anything over 7 to the south as to help push it loose. I would watch the entire Pacific plate, especially areas around where it is colliding with the Asian plate to the west for very large earthquakes. Eastern Russia and Kuril Islands region because this is where the line would conclude northwest direction of the SA travelling, where the Pacific plate would be forced under the Asian plate.

                Think of the Pacific plate as much weaker, oceanic crust is to continental crust, trying to move against a bigger mass. When it eventually does the entire plate is then free to move with it in this northwest direction. It is likely only small sections will move, this is why taking a line on a globe will show where this movement will affect the San Andreas. This is an area along a north south direction from about 44-57 degrees north along the easterm coastline of Asia. Other smaller faults in s. calif are more affected by the direction in which they run. There was a polar earthquake of 5.7 south of the South Sandwich Islands 3 days before the 1994 Northridge earthquake for example. Watch those polar earthquakes over 5 point, this is what I have been doing and sure enough large earthquakes follow this 80-90%+ of the time.

          • Hi BI,

            I recently was having problems accessing the board and so E-mailed Mac to ask if something was out-of-sorts, to which he replied that he was getting ready to upgrade the server to a new more multi-core unit. Additionally, I caught a post of his over the last few days indicating that we’ll (soon?) have the abilty here to PM directly (through the board itself) to each other…YAY! Some of the things which are off-topic or for which any decent discussion would be prohibitively long as posted comments can be done that way – DISCRETELY – meaning simple personal privacy here, so ‘Yippy-Ky-Yay!’ indeed. I am in full agreement with you on the irregularities we see in the world of late being non-ordinary and THAT is a subject which unfortunately is too voluminous (big) to politely post open-forum here without incurring Mac’s wrath. I would be pleased to dialogue with you – extensively even – if and when Mac gets the PM thing going. Your thinking is plainly analytical – something I appreciate, as you may already have guessed – in a world overflowing with DWTS, the MSM and all the other ”Gag-me-with-a-fork” crap that passes for human mentation these days. Specifically, I’ve already prepared a detailed response to your most recent reply-post back in my direction, though, as said, it’s a little too large to open-post here in the comments section. I can hardly wait for Mac to do his thing with the PM’ing. Anywho, till later Brother/Sister/Friend.

        • @JustOneGuy….Great post!! I tried to purchase Borax and also borasic acid at a major drug store, and they didn’t sell either one??….could you tell me where I can buy it? My mother always used borax with laundry detergent….but that was a few years ago. Thanx in advance, CC.

          • Hi CC,

            I mostly obtain Borax at out local Wal-Mart or any of several other grocery stores in the ‘Laundry’ setion of the store. OTOH, Boric Acid, which can be found, can usually only be obtained at/through our local pharmacy by request. Funny, I remember just several years ago being able to go to almost any pharmacy to get – off-the-shelf – either Boric Acid or Sublimated Sulfur powder (best chigger repellent known to man when dusted around the interior of the waistband of ones underwaer and the tops of one’s socks))…neither seems so available nowadays. I wonder if the ‘Nanny’ state thing is responsible? How’s you all’s weather up ‘that way’ (presupposing that your geographical location is consonant with your moniker?) I’ve always LOVED Canada down to the the bottom of my heart, Alaska too.

          • Walmart usually has it. Some grocery stores. I don’t think I’ve ever seen it at a drug store. Look for “20 Mule Team Borax.”

          • CC – I’ve found it at WalMart and the Superstore.

            ~ D

      42. Did anybody check the link to the tweets from the blk, azz hole thugs looting the Sandy victims? OMG, all the money I wasted on paper targets and cardboard backers when actual targets are more plentiful than rats at the dump! Those racist thieving bastards are a scourge on society. How come the city doesn’t spray for them? Hopefully the electric will be turned back on while they are nut deep in a pool of water… while they are carrying away what “whitey owes them” THEIR WORDS.

      43. With extreme apologies to the Beverly Hillbillies

        Come and listen to my story
        Bout a guy named Jamaal
        Thought he’d do some lootin’
        Hell, he thought he’d take it all

        He took his pimpin’ 9
        Held it sideways in his hand
        Then he headed down the street
        To go stealin’ from The Man

        (banjo interlude…)

        Now the next thing you know
        Jamaal is in my neighborhood
        A home invasion across the street
        He thought he was doin’ good

        But the door that he kicked in
        Brought him quite a big surprise
        An 80 year old widow
        Shot him right between the eyes

        Stone cold, that is
        A double tap
        He won’t come back now
        Ya hear…?

        • On a side note…..

          The fans in San Francisco rioted after the Giants won the series.

          If they’ll riot over something like that, what will they do when there’s no food?

      44. Red Racer, thank you for that post on NMF; sounds like it’s in the process of waking up, though I hope not. I’d like to think if they stop all that fracking NMF will stay asleep for awhile longer, but I’m not holding my breath. Mac, I couldn’t have written this article any better. It just never fails, doesn’t it? BI, I have to agree with you that no more than 1% will learn from their experience with Sandy and start prepping. It burns me to no end supposedly grown people refuse to take responsibility for their own families in any type of disaster and expect government, i.e. working peoples’ tax money to take care of them. When you bring someone into this world, IT’S YOUR OWN RESPONSIBILITY TO PROVIDE FOR THEIR NEEDS, NOT SOMEONE ELSE’S! NOBODY OWES YOU PEOPLE A DAMN THING IN THIS WORLD! NOW LOOK AT THE SITUATION THEY FIND THEMSELVES IN, SO WHAT THE HELL DID THEY EXPECT? THEY SCREWED AROUND ALL THAT TIME AND DIDN’T DO SQUAT! Sorry for my rant, everyone, but I just had to vent on this one. Now the FED will keep the printing presses going to pay for the cleanup and rebuilding efforts that we will be expected to pay for. With the infrastructure and transportation all screwed up, it’ll be a miracle if they get any help any time soon. Daisy, i read your post about thugs posing as govt. workers and utility workers to rob people. The other people told you exactly right; ask them for proper ID; if they can’t or won’t show it, tell them to leave only one time and make sure you’re armed. if they don’t, do whatever you have to do. Stay safe and keep prepping. Braveheart

        • Ruger…among my favorite manufacturers as well as among some of my favorite gun inventory. I see your still “spicing up the stew” Nina O: always good to know.

      45. I’ve been watching the news all day, we,, at least listening while I canned potatoes, changing channels, and have heard NOTHING about looting. I even remarked how nice it was to not hear of any. I enjoy reading and learning from this site, but geez, from all these posts I think I can count on one hand any compassionate voices here. You guys are sounding self righteous and condemning of situations you don’t know the depth of as to reasons for not evacuating. As bad as I thought I’d like to be associated with like minded people, I am disappointed to see more and more examples of why preppers are generally seen as extremists. I hope those of you who this shoe fits do not find yourselves in need of a little compassion one day.

        • Compassion – it’s an increasingly rare commodity in a world ruled by pyschopaths yet is the bedrock of the Christian faith.

        • DOD, plenty about looting. You’re obviously not looking very hard.

        • Dollars, I understand what you are saying, I think. What comes across as a lack of compassion or just generally uncaring is more likely just frustration. Many of these people and I count myself among them received a lot of warning as to the impending “frankenstorm.” I came home to my wife going through our preps and handed me a small list of needs and likes, which I went out and immediately got. This was day’s before the storm. I called family to assure they had what they needed. This also was all well ahead of the storm. I am sure that some were caught by circumstance and ended up being stuck where they were, but none should have been caught unaware. Anyone to old or infirm would have needed to call 911 and someone would have came and helped them out, but not at the last minute! Compassion is in the eye of the beholder, it is all about POV. We donate food to our local church for OPSEC reasons, for example, I have read many kind words here at SHTF. I have also read, who knows maybe even wrote, a few deplorable posts in my efforts to combat ignorance and downright stupidity. But to judge everyone here based on this one article’s post seems a little harsh.
          As far as looting goes, Yes there is looting going on, do not trust the MSM’s slant, I am sure you are aware, their perspective is and has been compromised for awhile now.

          • I believe that compassion is not sparing people from the consequences of their decisions, but loving them through the pain so they make better decisions in the future.

            • That’s what I’m sayin’!

          • Hi Clay,

            “FRUSTRATION”…yes, indeed. Thumbs Up 1+

        • it’s not a lack of compassion being expressed
          so much as a feeling of FRUSTRATION

          what do you do with someone who was warned about the dangers
          by the President of the United States
          by the Governor
          by FEMA
          by local officials
          by EVERY TV and radio station

          and after all this
          they made the DECISIONS to DO NOTHING

          at some point you have to assume some responsibility for the safety of yourself and your family

          the government should provide basic security and help repair infrastructure

          you should have the sense to store some extra water,food,flashlights etc

          people need to “man up”
          and take some initiative
          not just sit back and wait for someone else to do for them
          what they should have been doing for themselves

          • @ Satori,


          • The NY Daily News has a lot of articles of interest, from the one posted above on looters, to the beat down of a Brooklyn Yeshiva student by a group of “thugs” as the hurricane was approaching, to a horrifying story about two little boys swept out of their mothers arms when their vehicle was overturned on Staten Island…it just gives me chills and breaks my heart. Jersey City appears to be going nuts. And today people are freaking out about gas stations with two hour lines and such. So my responses range from being deeply compassionate to the people truly injured, to scoffing at the people who didn’t supply themselves with water, food and gasoline days ahead of time. Thank you to the folks here who have taken the time to share your stories. I appreciate the opportunity to learn from you.

      46. Let the animals starve to death. Preppers shall inherit the Earth.

      47. When people live in flood-prone areas (“flood zones”), they need to be prepared for floods.


        Why is this basic concept so fricking hard for people to remember?!

      48. Just read an article on Yahoo about some of what’s takin’ place up there in NY. One resident commented that he needed to find a workin’ TV to watch the games……….WTH? Maw called me the other evening to ask how we were faring after the storm. My parents know I keep a stocked pantry and I reminded her how slack we’ve become by depending on JIT supermarkets. I mentioned that Grandmaw (her mother) had a trap door in the kitchen when she lived in Front Royal where she kept shelves of canned goods in the room below the floor. Storing extra food is not evil, its not wrong. It’s being wise to know that whatever disaster comes are way it has the ability to wear many faces. Folks need to wake up and un-frig themselves. Of course I know I’m preaching to the choir here ( got the preachers teeth in my mouth again) Paaahtoooweee. They’re out now. Yall have a good day today.

        • Uh-Oh….”Our” way …..not “are” way.

          “Write drunk/Edit sober”……Hemmingway?

      49. yet every year the lemmings run toward the sea and over the cliff….. it’s overly optimistic to believe that 1/10th of 1% will learn anything from this… my personal feeling is that there should be open season on looters… the people of this nation used to reflect the character of those in Japan after the tsunami and quakes, now we’re despised because of the rampant egotisical air of superiority and selfishness…

        George Washington, General of the Revolutionary Army, president of the Constitutional Convention, First President of the United States of America, Father of our nation, “Religion and morality are the essential pillars of civil society.”

        Marginalize, neutralize, criminalize, erode or take away religion from a society and morality suffers exponentially as will that society. We are living what we have created for ourselves. Without a return to a religiously based morality, we can only hope for an ever-increasing demonstration of what is now in isolated places due to the storm’s leaving people vunerable.

        Benjamin Franklin, Signer of the Declaration of Independence “[O]nly a virtuous people are capable of freedom. As nations become corrupt and vicious, they have more need of masters.”

        Robert Winthrop, Speaker of the U. S. House, “Men, in a word, must necessarily be controlled either by a power within them or by a power without them; either by the Word of God or by the strong arm of man; either by the Bible or by the bayonet.”

        I would say, “you decide” but the decisions effecting our nation have been made long ago. We are reaping what was sown.

        • “To educate a man in mind and not in morals is to educate a menace to society.”
          Theodore Roosevelt

          For your post PP.

      50. Im just wondering how long it will be , before the government comes in to save the day by going door to door to take guns away?

        no matter the food or water situation or the heat..but with the way this government thinks,, these people cant be armed in a crisis, so lets forget all about the other needs and lets just go in blue shirt and helmet and take away as many guns as we can find.

        And for those who werent prepped..”dont say we didnt warn you”

      51. Anyone heard from * Gods Creation? *

        not sure where he is located or if he is neck deep in this shit or not?

      52. Bunch of stupid people first never live within 25 miles of any coastline! how much more warning is needed when people are calling it FRANKENSTORM! ooohhh it wont be that bad honey, go out and buy some chips and beer! silly people flood my ass, why it just cant happen here!

      53. possee,

        ‘Sandy was just a precursor for what’s coming.’ Thank you sir, and you are right.

        Just look at what the unprepared (that stayed) faced in just 36 hours:
        Salt water flooding
        Sand filled homes
        Dirt and mud filled homes
        Sewage backup in flooding water
        Pathogen filled water and air
        Staphylococcus aureus
        Escherichia coli
        These are just a two that come to mind
        No dry bedding
        No where to sleep
        No food
        No fresh drinking water
        No change of clothing
        No way to extinguish fires
        No where to go
        No hot meals or coffee
        No TP
        No First Aid
        No phone, computer or internet
        No electricity

        Y’all Beware! Gotta’ stop now, this is sad! Yet needed!! So add to the list if you like so we can show it to our family members and friends that have not listened.

        • Y’all..

          Unfortunately, way way way too many folks are caught in situations where escape is impossible and have ignored the probabilities of disaster…
          Living in homes and cottages with ocean front views
          on barrier islands just above sea level..

          Major cities,with populations of millions, built over former salt water bays relying totally on public transportation which is mostly underground..and just above sea level..

          For the life of me, as we supposedly mature do we really
          for a moment think we are impervious to mother nature?

          Obviously so..it is the normalcy bias and disconnect that society in general has nowadays..worried more about cell phone loss, no tv, no internet,fast food, instant gratification..


          worst of all..relying on our current government to hurry and assist us when in need..

          as once stated..if you are reliant on government to help throughout your life..you will be eternally miserable..


        • @ Y’all Beware. Exactly what happened with this storm surge WILL happen when the Caribbean plate gives way. It could be a 5 foot tsunami, or a 20 foot tsunami that hits a wide swath of southeastern coastline, but it will happen. It has happened before and will happen again. The only difference is that with this 99.9% of the people won’t have much or any warning as they think of tsunamis as a Pacific or Indian Ocean phenomenon.

          One day along some Florida beach or many other beaches, maybe in the morning, the water will gradually begin receding. All of a sudden many people will begin to examine what is left behind, interesting to many. Maybe one or two people might recognize the nightmare soon to follow and alert the beachgoers. Unless a loudspeaker is used their voices will not be loud enough. All at once a rush of wave after wave of surge will come in at speeds of anywhere between 25-50 mph. Like the lack of warning along Thailand beaches people will die, all depending on how many are at the beach, it could be in the tens of thousands or more. Seaside residents will awake or suddenly be caught off guard as powerful tsunami driven waves crash through their picturesque windows looking out at the ocean that now looks like a storm surge from a category 4 or 5 hurricane.

          Can’t happen? It already has to the southeastern coastline for countless times in the past before people had homes there. Why there is not a tsunami warning system on the Atlantic seaboard is crazy and so irresponsible of the states there. Hawaii has saved countless lives from warning of tsunamis, why not the states of the Atlantic? I am glad you Y’all beware are aware of this potential hell awaiting from the seafloor.

          This is just my little warning to whomever lives here to contact their state government about getting a tsunami warning system so people have at least a chance to prepare and run for it. At least to have aware that there is a true danger there. Hurricanes happen, but so do tsunamis, and big ones, along the Atlantic seaboard and the Caribbean.

          • and there won’t necessarily be just one wave
            and the first one may not be the biggest

            so don’t go running back to the beach to sight see after the first wave recedes !!!!!!

        • No phone, no pool, no pets, I ain’t got no cigarettes.
          Oh but two hours of pushin’ broom buysa eight by twelve four bit room, Ima man of means by-no means, King of the road!
          We bit of Roger Miller.

          • I know every engineer on all of the trains all of their chillins and all of their names.

            I’m a man of no means, King of the Road.

      54. Facebook Page,

        What a visual – SNAPers –

        Y’all Beware! That image I will not forget. What’s sad is two rescuers had to pull the damn boat!!

        • SNAPers, another name for the souljahs in the F.S.A.(free-shit-army)

      55. When a major storm is coming and the sheeple have had plenty of warning 3+ days, and an evac order is given,and people stay, Fuck them. They were warned well ahead of time.Now my taxes and such will go up due to the masses’ stupidity. Will we ever learn ? I think not. Let Darwin sort this one out. Here in my home in Maine, I was well prepped to hold out for days with a little forthought and some common sense rationing. I had plenty of food , gas for the genny, water for a month etc etc. This didn’t break the bank at all, been stocking up for years. Heed the lesson learned . BE PREPARED.

        • Hello fellow Mainer!! I was well prepared too. Got out of work at 3:30 on Monday, picked up another gallon of lamp oil, another 5 gallons of gas for the generator, and a bottle of Maker’s Mark!! That was everything else I needed.

      56. I was hoping it all washed away with one powerful flush, sadly that was not the case.

        • Dittos. And having lived upstate, I can tell you there’s a lot of disappointed (upstate) New Yorkers about now.

        • a big storm requires prepared people, fema be damned…

        • Now I see why I wouldn’t even wrap fish in that filthy rag…..

      57. This weather event just proves what has been the theme of all prep sights since the beginning. there is no substitute for good preparation.
        I feel sorrow for those that did prep, and had to evacuate because of conditions. but to those who choose to do nothing, and depend on the government to bail them out—there is no fixing stupid—period. you deserve what you get. this sounds hard hearted, but it’s still the truth. have a great day.

      58. Tried to post this last nite, trying again, my husband commented during the news, it hasnt been very long whats up with those people, we didnt have power for 7 days in Ohios June 29 storm,

      59. It’s ridiculous. The people were told to leave and they didn’t. They had time to prepare but they didn’t. It’s hard to feel sorry for them.

      60. I know a lot of people are suffering because of Sandy but this storm did me a huge favor. After my husband to be was made to work during the worst of the storm here in Northern Virginia by his a$$hole irrigation company, he has had enough of this stupidity and is ready to move!!! After driving home in 60 mph winds and almost having a tree fall on him, he is FINALLY ready to say “SCREW YOU” to the jerks that made him work in dangerous conditions.

        We are going home to East Tennessee for Thanksgiving and we are looking at property while we are there. I have already made several calls to realtors in the area and have property lined up to look at.

        The pictures and stories from NY/NJ are exactly what would happen here in the DC area…I am so ready to get out of here!

        So, any advice from anyone about what we should look for while we are looking at property? I know the big thing is water…we need to have a creek or spring or some type of water source on the property. Anything else? What would be the minimum amount of land? Should we look for something with some pasture land already set up (for crops) and woods (for firewood)? Everyone on this site is way ahead of us as far as prepping and I would appreciate any and all advice you guys can give me.

        Thanks in advance from one very happy Southern Gal that is getting out of the big city very soon.

        • I would move west of the mississippi river, but that’s me.

        • I’m in the same spot. Was looking at a 26 acre property and trying to sort pros and cons. It had been on the market for months and heading into winter I figured there was some time (it was an estate). Well, they dropped the price and someone bought it that weekend 🙁 So I’m at square 1. Sigh…

          I did learn a lot, but still not sure about a lot more. It’s a big, expensive move to do it wrong. Is one type of water better than the other? Checking easements/access rights is a MUST. This would make a fantastic topic and the body of knowledge here is impressive.

        • I was in the real estate business until 2006 when I sold out and moved further into Appalachia. It is difficult to find a good deal from afar, but since you have family in the area they may act as your boots on the ground. Some general tips I learned the hard way.
          1. Good deals go quick. Search the MLS yourself every day for new listing and call the listing agent directly. Have someone do an immediate drive-by so you can discuss whether to make an immediate visit/offer. I will post the url for Eastern Tennessee MLS as a reply to this post.

          2. Water, farmland, and other desires raise the asking price and just because they aren’t listed does not mean they aren’t there. This is particular true of springs which may need to be tapped. Knock on neighbors doors and ask about well production. I can truck in mushroom compost cheaper than I can by land currently in production.

          3. Neighbors make a big difference. Mine allow one another to cross their land to hunt, cut dead fall, etc. No use my neighbor cutting down a perfectly good tree when I have dead ones rotting on the stump.

          4. Live within your means. I’d rather own a few acres free and clear than a big farm I might lose to the bank. During the Great Depression many lost farms because they couldn’t make the payments for pay the taxes. I believe small rural parcels will further decline when inflation heats up as people will be forced to double up to pay the higher costs of food, utilities, etc. so now is not the time to buy more than you need.

          • Want to emphasize item #1. I saw my current B.O.L. on the Internet on Thursday. Viewed it on Friday. R/E agency was closed that weekend, so I hung around, sleeping in my van, until Monday. Filed my written offer by 09:30 AM. By 4:00 PM I had a signed acceptance, (it was a Bank Owned property, a foreclosure). R/E agent told me later that his office had been inundated the whole week with inquiries. One factor on my favor: I was paying cash, and made a substantial deposit of “earnest money”. That told the bank that I was serious.

            #2, #3, and #4 are also dead on true.

            Since relocating here, I have noted that a great way to get B.O. property is auctions. This is also Appalachia, and there are still many old small farmers here whose properties pretty much go begging when they pass on. http://www.auction.com will get you a pretty good list of upcoming auctions. The best prices are for the most isolated – a double benefit for us!

            Cities today are evolved to support the rich, the lazy, and the stupid. The three categories overlap almost 100%.

        • From a Tennessee girl…welcome back, Southern Gal. 🙂

        • Taxes are a little better in Union county, not so for Knoxville county. You do know that Tenn has a 9.3 sales tax on everything including groceries? Best of luck to you and yours.

        • Make sure someone doesn’t own the mineral rights below the land you’re looking at. Title search, yada. Don’t be in too much of a hurry even tho’ time is tight.

      61. The disasters run from cycle to cycle. Hurricanes, wild fires, earthquakes and floods. Still there is no awakening. At least not to the standards that, We Preppers would like to see. They rebuild in the forests, valleys, shorelines and plains, knowing full well that it may befall them again. Overcome, by just wanting things to be normal. Why would so many rebuild on an earthquake fault line or in the shadow of an active volcano or an tsunami/hurricane prone beach.
        Then we preppers, every time a disaster hits, hit the keyboards with comments that are repetative in nature.
        I think I am reaching a point where I do not try as hard to warn people about how dangerous our planet is. My wife tells me to shut up cause they do not want your help. Maybe I should let others have their time in the sun while they still can and let happen, what happens. We all expend time and energy to convince others to follow our ways and it does not go far in converting them to our side. Maybe they have to find us.
        I am awaiting news from family in New Jersey, in the Toms River area. One home may be washed away. Everyone is safe.
        Now is the time for we preppers to share our post disaster skills with those who are stricken from the storm and not gloat over others misfortune.

        • Like and double like!

      62. The real danger now is the spectre of disease…

      63. Let’s see, you had days to get ready, you knew it was coming your way. You should have re-arranged your priorities for something like this. Instead of a new car, fifth wheel, water craft, etc., GO GET a generator to power your house, stock up on food and SELF DEFENSE and get a simple water purification system for emergencies.
        I am willing to bet that if another one came through next year, the SAME PEOPLE will be in the same trouble!


        Clay Dungey

      64. I know this is going to get flamed with “Thumbs Down,” but,

        Can we please drop the “prayers go out to…” and “may the lord…” and “hope that god will…”??

        Do you not see that religion and all its trappings is part of this problem? Prayers (aka talking to yourself) do NOTHING. PEOPLE do, or do not. IF there is a god (and you can guess my stance), then isn’t it rather presumptive to want him to help/save/shelter/provide for people affected by a hurricane he created/knew of/let happen? IF god is all-knowing, all-powerful and ever-present, then this was all part of his plan. Supposedly, before these people were even born, he knew they were going to be affected by it, but now he is supposed to be swayed to change the outcome by your well-wishing? If you truly want to help these people, get OFF your ASS and go help them!

        In addition to waking up to the need to being prepared, PLEASE wake up from the illusion of religion and god and start living a self-instilled purpose based life. It’s all made up folks. Face it, had your parents or others never told you (and the MSM didn’t pump it into you), you would know nothing of god. Had you been born in Norway in the time of the Vikings, you would believe in Odin. Ancient Egypt? Amon Ra.

        Wake up. Keep prepping. Do actual deeds if you want to help others.

        Heel out.

        • Hi Achilles,

          To be sure, “Faith without works is meaningless.” However, as a counterpoint to your essay consider that from the time of our Forefathers right up to and including several comments immediately above thiese post here by people on this board – Washington all the way up to Prepared Pastor, Satori and PO’d Patriot to name a few – have made the observation that either a force from within or a force from without are required in order to obtain even a modicum of civility amongst men. As, in my experiance, Men are little to be trusted with the application of force and coercion in practice and as per history I would rather lay faith in other’s good character – divinely inspired specifically – than the alternative….always. Without reiterating what others have already so plainly laid out here in the comments on this post itself I note, “You can lead a horse to water but you can’t make him drink.” Eh? Pointedly, most of those of this mindset do daily (or at least a whole lot more frequently than most – “GET OFF thier ASS(ES)” both intellectually and physically, in preparing over and over and over for the uncertain future which seems to be facing us all…BUT Charity begins first, always at Home for one’s beloved’s FIRST and given the tenor of life here in this country as it has come to be with the ‘vampire-squid’ machinations of the top few who have come to dominate all the economic lanscape over the last few decades, do you really think those who you have raolled against here have – in the greater sense – even the wherewithall to do much more than we do. I have no problem helping anyone He places into my path -as I may and as I am able – given that I have attended to my fundamerntal responsibilities FIRST, but then how much is left anymore, anywhere. Look around, things are getting tighter by the day…do you think this will cchange for the better with a Congress that cannot be other than “…an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing.” As another here stated earlier, “It much of one’s ‘POV'” Perhaps your position should be reconsidered. Eh?

          ****This concludes the ‘RANT-AT-HAND’ you may now proceed safely to your chosen destination********

      65. @ Be Informed

        Do the two quakes in OK have anything to the Madrid and this instability?

        • @ Norse Prepper. Unlikely that Oklahoma quakes have much to do with the New Madrid fault as the ancient plate boundaries of the New Madrid were quite far to the east. If the New Madrid ran more east- west then I would say possibly it would. Actually I would be real concerned if you started having all sorts of earthquakes down in the Gulf of Mexico and the New Madrid, that would indicate that the ancient plate boundaries are experiencing some true stress and tension.

      66. Was wondering what everyone’s take is on this:

        On one hand it has been said over and over again that preppers who want to make it after the SHTF should encourage neighbors and people in their community to prep. It has been said that you won’t make it alone. Selco in his interview from surviving Sarajevo stated that you need people for defense.

        On the other hand, there are a lot of comments to keep your preps and prepping activities to yourself. Don’t let the neighbors know you prep. Don’t let anyone know what you have. Check YouTube out for the Twilight Zone episode called “The Shelter”. If your neighbors know that you are prepared they will come in a panic to take it.

        Which is right? My preference has been to not let any of my neighbors know anything about what I do and what I have. Only close immediate family and friends who I know already prep know anything and at this point.

        I still have so far to go. The list of things to do/acquire/learn is endless.

        God Bless

        • @ Norse Prepper. The one word I use is TRUST. As I once quoted from Author James F. Cullian; “If you can go through life and say that you have had one good, or possibly two or three friend(s) during your lifetime then you certainly can count yourself a most fortunate person indeed. “Friends” are about as rare as cool water in a hot desert. Anybody who tells you that they have “lots of friends” is a fool. We have many ACQUAINTANCES, “disguised” as friends, but real friends: next to none at all. If you don’t believe me you will learn for yourself: at some point you are going to have to TEST your friends; you may be in real need of something which will mean them spending time, concern, money or some special kind of sacrifice, on your behalf. Just watch how these “friends” will evaporate overnight! You will be stunned. You will be disillusioned, embittered. I have had this experience many times. What horrifies me is that you can find your “closest buddy” disintergrate at only the barest sacrifice demanded of him or her. The person is not being asked to give you a pile of money or put their life at risk; often the “sacrifice” involved is something, at least in my eyes, of no great monumental deprivations to the person concerned. It became apparent to me through the passing of time that in no way would those people—- Great self-styled “friends”—even remotely consider helping me in a situation only a fraction as dangerous or fdifficult as the sitautions in which I helped them”

          While this sounds cynical as the day is long, it is true. How many people can we honestly say that we truly and really deep down trust? Not many. The real issue with getting others to prepare is really so they don’t much as much of a dangerous burden on the rest of us that do. In a neighborhood if you are the only one that prepares and ONE person that you trusted lets everyone else know that you have what they need, it will be like that Twilight show episode that I have seen so many times, “The Shelter”. However if several people in your neighbor have prepared, there is less of a chance of your home being attacked.

          Besides this, those that have prepared might not be close friends, but like birds of a feather flock together, they will find similar allies in you that you both have a “common goal”, to not have a mob take what you both have. Unfortunately the best person to trust is someone that wants to protect what they have by teaming up with someone that has the same desires.

          The real issue with me about trust is that too many TALK big to simply gain acceptance and approval. Much the same as people growing up desire popularity in school, they will SAY anything to be accepted by a group. This is the exact first person that will snake you the second something happens when they arrive at your home after SHTF and expect you and your family to share what you have with them. You will ask what about their stockpile and they will give you a lame excuse why they don’t have one, even though they have plenty of expensive junk toys to play with. If you don’t comply, this individual will threaten you that everyone will know on your street and others that you have plenty of food, or gather up a mob to take it.

          Just like what Mr. Cullinan says above about no life threatening episode someone will turn on you. One can only imagine what a true backstabber you will see with someone that is hungry and or thristy will do when you have what they need. This is why we all have to be so cautious about whom will TRUST. A fine line we walk, but must when it comes to post SHTF world, and beforehand whom we TRUST what we have sacrificed so long for.

          • This is the exact first person that will snake you the second something happens when they arrive at your home after SHTF and expect you and your family to share what you have with them. You will ask what about their stockpile and they will give you a lame excuse why they don’t have one, even though they have plenty of expensive junk toys to play with. If you don’t comply, this individual will threaten you that everyone will know on your street and others that you have plenty of food, or gather up a mob to take it.

            @ Be Informed.
            In a SHTF moment. At that point in time. I would gut him on the spot. Rude. Crude and to the point. Would not give him the time to gather up a mob.

            • @ slinshot. Agreed 100%.

            • prep, with a tight lip.

        • Norse Prepper:

          It sounds easy about what you say, but it’s hard to comply. “Only close immediate family and friends who I know already prep know anything and at this point”? I am on my own in the US (my families are in China), so does it mean I can’t tell my plan to anybody.

          ps: I just bought some emergency food for myself yesterday.

          • Bobby,

            Great job in taking the first step. Not knowing your living situation I would personally keep quiet about any preps that you have. My brothers know of my preps and one of them lives too far away to come to my place and I am expecting the other brother to come over. He has skills and preps as well.

            Only three of my friends know of my preps. Two of them are too far away to show up at my doorstep and the other is a serious prepper with plans to bug out to a different location so she is of no risk.

            Without any family nearby that you can really trust, I would stick to myself. In the meantime, leading questions to others can help you find out who around you is a prepper. As Be Informed said, if you can find another prepper who is more concerned about protecting their preps than what you have, you will have found an ally.

            In an article I wrote that is posted in this websites archives, there will be a point where a family will run out of food and someone, whether it’s the mom or dad or whomever will state that they are going to go find something to eat and not return until they do. At that point, it is very bad for them to know that you have what they need because people will turn in to animals when it comes to feeding a starving child.

            Hope this helps and God Bless….

        • I think it depends on the neighbors. I do not think one should partner with people with whom they would normally not associate just because they share inexpensive tract housing. I get the impression from Selco’s writing that many of his neighbors were related or at least good friends.

          Fortunately, we can often choose our neighbors. Our main house is in a small city between the a river and a lake. There is so much game the city allows occasional urban deer hunts. Left alone I could survive at least a year without leaving the street. My neighbors, however, have entitlement mentalities even now and often take advantage of my good nature. They would be a liability which would more than offset their labor.

          I solved my problem by spending $5,000 to buy a few acres in a rural community where heating with wood, hunting, canning, etc. is commonplace. I’ve made friends with these neighbors while building my cabin and they have already been an asset.
          For those who cannot do likewise, I suggest creating a mutual aid group with like-minded people in your area using web sites like Meetup.com and Craigslist. Initial meetings should be in public areas and only include first names. Set communications protocols and a meeting place for trigger events which you can change should someone prove difficult. You may meet someone with whom you want to share details, but at the very least you have a network of people with skin in the game and can come together for defense without having to carry them.

        • #1 Rule of Fight Club

          No one talks about Fight Club

      67. @ slingshot. I don’t know if it is gloating over others’ misfortune, it is more the frustration that you expressed over people just not listening. It is more of “I told you so”, in order so they don’t repeat the same mistakes over and over again. The people on this site, including myself try to warn people of what is coming, to be ready. When they fail to listen, we have to remind them that they were warned. Most of the masses fail to listen. I tried to warn RICH and others that it is not the wind it is the pressure of a storm you have to look at. The illusion of this being another Irene killed many people and many failed to prepare. Hurricane Katrina came ashore as a Category 3 hurricane with Category 5 pressure and a storm surge of 30 feet. A category 3 hurricane is suppose to have 8-12 foot storm surge.

        Many people may think I want obama to win over romney, NOT. I don’t want either of these characters to win because we lose with both. My main concern is that preppers/survivalists will let their guard down if romney wins because he “says” that he is pro-gun and pro-freedom. This person is a chronic liar and flips flops more than all the fish caught on a fishing boat. I am clueless about what he stands on anything. He could take away everyone’s firearms sure as hell as obama will try to. Most people could end up in a camp the same as obama will try to do. The critical difference is that so few people will be aware of this, as romney would do it in such a sneaky way that few would know what hit them before it was too late. BO and r.money are not allies to any of us, and this is one of the most critical issues I am trying to convey to everyone, not to sway anyone’s opinion, but to protect them from two devils, whichever one wins.

        I as well others see much that others don’t, because most of the people here are free thinkers. When we see something, like yourself that is a warning sign, we try to alert people. When so many people don’t listen, many of us try to get the attention of those that didn’t listen by saying, see what happened it can happen again and will happen again. Just like I said before about the false hope each presidental election so many people get snared in, “THE TRAP”. Non-preparation and complacency is also a trap that 99% of the people fall into and should be reminded over and over again not to fall back into.

        • @ Be Informed.

          Except for the preparations we take, there is very little we can do. What I have done, is to identify what events move me to action. Martial Law, Bank Holiday, Confiscation of Guns, Internet shutdown and the secret removal of citizens to FEMA Camps. I view this storm as a test run.
          As far as the political scence. I know who they are and where they come from. I know the Bankers and what they stand for.
          What THEY do not understand about me, is when there is no Law, then it is My Law. Although many will disagree
          with this statement and I will support those who restore order and can dispense prudent justice.
          Tired of hearing Johnny was a good boy with a RAP sheet as long as his arm. Shot and killed while robbing a storm riddened store by owner.
          I do not know BI. One shot. One Kill. No Guilt.

          • @ slingshot. I think that if I had just one warning I could give to people, just one, it would be prepare for the disease factor after whatever happens, happens. I think that people should get as prepared to prevent germs from reaching them as much as possible. There will be no medical anything left after this happens, and disease will take down the best prepared person faster than anything. I worry much about the filth pits of India and other tropical countries as the place where the next Andromeda strain virus will come out of. I am most concerned about many preppers/survivalists that they don’t know enough about germ control.

            The enemy that tries to take what you have is a visible enemy. The germ from bacteria or viruses is not seen except under the microscope. After this flooding from Sandy, IF people did not have outside help or medical treatment, there would be a severe cholera outbreak in 2 weeks all over the affected areas. People need to learn and practice water purification as a top priority after SHTF. Food must be cooked that does not come from a can, and long enough to kill bacteria such as salmonella and E coli. People have to assume that most of what they put into their mouth after SHTF is dangerous unless properly santitized.

            Another issue is proper bathing and keeping oneself properly cleaned off, proper hygiene, this includes the mouth and teeth. Open cuts that are exposed to water that has streep flesh eating bacteria in it is an extreme concern. This is what I am most worried about with the preppers, understanding and controlling disease.

            • After sometime in the dirt, how nice it is to put on a clean T shirt, dry Socks and Skivies. I get you. ;0)

            • BI:

              I am watching CNN now and they are discussing the threat that the water is posing. Many of the waste treatment plants were overrun by storm surge and there is raw sewage in the flood waters.

              I am afraid this is just the beginning…I expect to see a lot more deaths and disease from the flood waters. Keeping clean is of paramount importance like you stated.

              You may be the most prepared person in the world but like you stated, disease can wipe you out and bring you to your knees. I would love to see an article dedicated to this topic.

              • Was there any death toll in New Orleans/Katrina attributed to disease? I have not seen any report on it.

              • Disease is very possible from the flooding. The subway rats are looking for new digs and they will chew there way through almost anything to get to food and warmth.

              • @ Southern Gal. I sent Mac something that I wrote exactly on this, preparing and securing yourself against a pandemic. Maybe Mac could send e-mail this to you.

            • sanitation is probably the most ignored area of prepping
              yet it or rather the lack thereof will get you dead but quick


              Sanitation and Cleanliness

              This chapter from A Community Guide to Environmental Health, available as a 48-page booklet, offers basic information on toilet building as well as learning activities to help communities understand and prevent sanitation-related health problems.

              BUY | DOWNLOAD PDF

        • I would listen to BI…
          It is a trap, the trap of the Haves against the Havenots.
          When the Fed is done buying MBS’s, it will end up owning all the mortgages in America, bought with YOUR (counterfeit) MONEY… that should make you very very concerned.

          It is also their JIT mind set… Just In Time systems, that save them money, but put YOU at risk.
          Do you seriously think the Haves live without adequate preps in those castles and mansions? I think not. They are preppers preppers. To know what they have, would put you to shame.

          After the crash, the ‘Head of Gold’ will reassert itself as the Phoenix that rises from the ashes. And you will love it because you love money, and back into the Trap of serfdom this time. This is the reason the root of all evil is the LOVE of MONEY.

          The only way to overcome the Rule of Gold, is the Golden rule… remember that.

        • Romney–His own wife said “He can argue both sides of any issue. You will think he really believes what he is saying, but he doesn’t”. You can probably find it with Google.

      68. Does anyone have some links to articles about “safety” when the SHTF? Young children may find themselves in unfamiliar environments which may not be “child proofed”. Are families with young children planning to come to your place when the SHTF?

        For example, have a wood burning stove? A friend made a barrier to go around theirs to protect the preschoolers who were visiting. The barrier looked like a couple of child safety gates that were combined to make a square around their wood burning stove.

        Also, in these situations, the adults may be distracted and focusing on a number of other things.

      69. More on tempers….

        “Because the devastation in Staten Island, the lack of a response,” Mr. Molinaro said to explain his comment to NBC after the press conference. “You know, I went to a shelter Monday night after the storm. People were coming in with no socks, with no shoes. They were in desperate need. Their housing was destroyed. They were crying. Where was the Red Cross? Isn’t that their function? They collect millions of dollars. Whenever there’s a drive in Staten Island, we give openly and honestly. Where are they? Where are they? I was at the South Shore yesterday, people were buried in their homes. There the dogs are trying to find bodies. The people there, the neighbors who had no electricity, were making soup. Making soup. It’s very emotional because the lack of a response. The lack of a response. They’re supposed to be here….They should be on the front lines fighting, and helping the people.” (Source at politicker dot com)

      70. I don’t think any of us understand just how big this is yet……subways in new york closed and flooded (7 tunnels and possibly for a long time )…..new jersey ( the situation, snooky etc lol ) pretty much wiped out…..millions without power….millions with no food , water, wide spread looting..( just wait till the looters bellies start rumbling ) and from what I hear most of new york and new jersey are just about out of gas with most parts not able to get any more in as well as no more food coming to empty shelves.( trucks can’t get in to resupply food, gas in most parts). If fema couldn’t handle katrina how the fu*k are they going to handle this ??? folks…this is a bigger disaster than any of us can grasp I fear. I just betcha there are millions who if they had one wish that wish would go like this………..” please make me a prepper with my preps up ”


      71. How will we identify the good guys?

        Check the link in Satori’s comment 10/31 at 10:41pm. If you’re wondering what things will look like after a truly nation wide shtf event. This is the ‘preview of coming attractions.’ The same preview that’s been playing for years all across the country.
        These are the people who will be the zombies. Heck, they’re about 75% zombified right now. (actual zombie content: 74.3% as measured by the National Zombie Analysis Commission, Dec, 2011 report. A $16million gov study, by the way)
        These folks don’t need an excuse to loot, all they need is the opportunity. Like Sandy, or Katrina, or a world series victory, or the OJ verdict, or the next election…
        **Advisory Alert** Racial Stereotyping has been detected by GovCorp political correctness filters in the following paragraphs**
        Even a casual observation of the many reports of looting, past and present, show a startling trend: Very few of the looters are white-skinned, pantry stocking Mormon boys with names like Tyler, Dustin or Kip. Most are of a somewhat darker pigmentation and tend to be called Jermaine, D’Marcus, TeyShon and such.
        The question isn’t ‘Why do the looters (mostly) belong to this demographic?’ The answer to that is obvious- that particular group has been lied to and sold a line of propaganda since Reconstruction. And many people, all across demographic lines, have bought the lies. They think it’s acceptable to have different standards for different groups of people. How else can we explain the silly dancing gyrations of the president and the first lady on national television shows like The View and Ellen DeGenerate (no mis-spelling) but if GW Bush or Laura Bush behaved like that in public, everyone would say they were making fools of themselves? Why is it necessary to lower the grading scale for college entrance exams for certain groups? Why do we need the abominable discrimination of Affirmative Action policies?
        It’s because we have an unspoken acceptance of the Lie. It’s okay for “those” people to act like that. But not the rest of us. They need a so-called helping hand, just to be able to accomplish what the rest of society can achieve by their own efforts. We, (All of us) silently agree that the standards for “them” can be different. Then we make excuses to conceal the lies. ‘It’s just part of their culture’, ‘They’ve been mistreated for generations, so it’s okay for them to act out a little’ ‘They just naturally have more rhythm’ and so on.
        NONSENSE! Either we all live by the same standards or we don’t. But let’s not keep lying to one another about it.
        So, we know ‘Why.’ But that wasn’t the question I was gonna ask. The question is: What do the productive, thinking, law abiding members of that group do in a teotwawki situation? How will the rest of us, as we struggle to survive and help one another, know that you are one of US and not one of THEM? I know there are plenty of intelligent, hard working people from that group. Some of them are on this very website. And, admittedly, there are far too many potential zombies lurking in my own demographic. Still, my question is- how can the good guys identify one another? Should we wear an arm band or something? Maybe a sleeve patch with a P for prepper? Or a picture of a banjo…or a pick-up truck? What’s to be our signal to each other? Someone please let me know before Elvis comes back in the Mother Ship.

        PS- At the risk of further stirring the racial pot, I will definitely be reposting the classic poem “Twas The Night Before Kwanzaa” this holiday season. Public demand is too great not to.

        • Depends on whether they show up wearing flip flops or driving a M1A1 Abrams tank.

        • I have discussed this before in other places… it is a concern…

          I proposed White as the old color of the Good guys.
          White armbands, white patches, white streamers on the colors.
          This needs to be done, as one thing we can agree on. Since, we can’t agree on anything… even the Sun coming up tomorrow…

          • For the most part, they will be chance encounters after TSHTF. Most will go silent or dispearse like leaves in the wind. Sixty to ninety days after might be the first surface observance of Preppers. Those that poke thier heads in unwanted spaces might find them sooner.

          • Piper- white sounds good to me. Anything to help us identify ourselves.
            By the way, I checked out your site. And your comments a few days ago on my religious rant. First, thanks for remaining civil. It’s always more productive to discuss than to argue. Second, I must reject the Gnostic philosophy underlying your beliefs. No time now to go into the various reasons why. (besides, in a battle of wits, you’d edge me out at the wire. And in a battle of intellects you’d probably lap me before we hit the finish line)
            Plus, I’m trying to derail the conversation from the topic of the article- lack of preparation and government dependence- onto the racial stereotyping, hate filled intolerance it usually generates. (that’ more fun!) Haven’t time to derail it onto religious stereotyping and the hate filled intolerance of that particular discussion. Perhaps later…

            • Agreed Smokin…
              You have your mysteries, I have the Light of reason.

              The Ten virgins, they take their ‘light’ into a back room to hide out the evil that comes?
              Of what use is a light?
              Does it allow one to see as well as BE SEEN?
              If these ‘lights’ are white, what better way to be seen?

              Why do we ‘hate’ one another? Fear perhaps? Fear of those who are unlike us? Those who believe differently?
              Your statement that it is ‘more fun’ to denigrate those of racial intolerance is revealing…and Biblical…

              Whether people know it or not, the translators of the Bible sometimes got it wrong, purposely or not. The statement about “nation shall rise against nation”, in the Greek was; ETHNOS, ethnic. So it is more properly, and of more use for the times, being pronounced; “Ethnic shall rise against ethnic”.

              You are right, this is part of what we see happening. It will get worse, especially after December and next year, we shall see how bad it gets, I don’t know. I don’t think it will matter who gets elected, either of them will be OBE’d, like Bush was. I’m no prophet, just a humble engineer that stumbled onto something profound.

              Your belief is up to you, that is the reason for the Proof in math and experiment. It is part of the spiritual evolution taking place, reread revelations again.. pay attention to the lady with 12 stars in her crown, clothed in the Sun while standing on the moon. Read about the New Song, and that the ‘mystery’ of God is finished… tell me what that means.

              Reason and reality, that’s all you get. What you do with it is up to you. Fear and hatred will not get you through what comes… only love will conquer all. But there are so few ‘christians’ who practice what they preach, I pray you are one of them.

          • @ Piper Michael.

            Don’t you find it somewhat unnerving as to the comments, being expressed here by Preppers? Running the Gambit from saving everyone to slitting thier throats.
            We may want to have all the, “Band Together Buzz” but deep inside we know we run the risk of disagreement between us and the implictions that might evolve from those disagreements.

            Just thought I would throw that into the mix.

            • So right… thus what Reagan said…
              “Trust, but verify…”

              Many people, do not know that they have six senses, because they have never used their sixth sense. Ask any cop that has been on the job for a few years… they can ‘smell’ a deceiver… a liar. I can too, as well as most mothers who have kids…;-) Oh, and dogs… never discount a good dog for smelling out bad guys…

              The White thing? It is mainly a tool on the Battlefield… but, if all the good guys (regardless of religious belief or not) adopted one color, that would simply make it easier in any total shtf situation to look in your binoculars and see that “they are wearing white armbands.” That would allow them the benefit of the doubt for me to allow them closer, so my spidey sense could take over… then it falls down to things like; are they willing to work? do they pull their load? are they moochers? lazy? fill in your own requirements of personality type.

              Hey, gangs have ‘colors’… right?
              Nothing is a certainty in this world, this could relieve a little uncertainty about where somebodies ‘head’ is… or where, ‘they’ think it is.

              One of my missions is to demonstrate our divisions, that are caused by rich men and their parties and mysteries of religion, is always the major source of conflict. Like the gentleman above who disagrees with my site, fine, it shows he has deep seated beliefs, this causes deep seated reactions some time, to the point of threatening my life (really!). I don’t care, it just demonstrates how their own beliefs leave them in fear and hatred of anybody elses. The need to be ‘right’ in this culture is what I call the Game of Shadows. This is what Plato described, that we endlessly pursue the entertainment of arguing over the nature of the shadows on the wall of our prison cave(reality).

              Smokin okie, above, disagrees with my ‘gnostic’ philosophy… fine, but he doesn’t understand, that he only has one thing to fall back on; The MYSTERY of Faith. This mystery was imposed by the Rich, the so called ‘church fathers’ when they literally burned the Heretics and their books. The Heretics were, what we call today; scientists. I thank him for being reasonable, because they are usually filled with rage, that anyone could ‘dare’ try to explain ‘the mystery’ of God’s creation, how dare I? Easy, they blew it and they are the reason we are so divided by denominations and doctrines of devils, that promote arguments and hatred, and murder and war “in the name of God”. But, they don’t recognize that because, they say, its just “ancient history”… so, what does history create? The future, and that future is NOW. How do we like the future they created?

              I suggest to smokin okie, and others, to understand the meaning of Revelations. (Did you know the books of John, only made it into the canon by a sneak? They were considered too ‘gnostic’ in origin… I suggest to them, that 95% of what Jesus taught, was burned by them in favor of a man who never met Him, Paul. And part of why this was done was to eliminate the Magdalene influence, and they converted her into a whore in order to elevate Peter and the Patriarchal system. If you read the Gnostic scriptures, you see that this conflict between Peter and Mary M. was evident, and Peter comes across as a dim witted dullard.)

              That the lady of 12 stars in her crown, clothed in the light of the Sun while standing upon the Moon, and the New Song that comes, so that the “mystery of God is finished…” may have some bearing on where we are… now. And that the lady, is standing on the stairway to heaven, having been delivered to the 12 tribes. I’m just sorry too many are stuck standing on the Moon of MYSTERY and FEAR.

              • I too, want to put things out there that others find unpleasant to have discussion. Being in the upper third of my life, I found that I am not as invinceible as I once was. Maybe with age, I will recieve that Divine Intervention, that you all talk about. Doubt it. A prepper at my age thinks diffently than one who is 25 years old. Time. One has longevity while the other has wisdom. A generation accelerated by technology that encapsulates itself into believing High Tech will solve all. Mother Nature will prove them wrong. If you believe you are at the right place at the right time, then the chances are things will go right for you.

              • Hey Piper, I got the site bookmarked and I’ll definitely return. Only had about an hour to read the other day. Besides, I think you’re more than half right on your pursuit of truth. Your comments here on economic and social matters are usually spot on. Our disagreement is, primarily, on the ultimate source of the problems. And we’re probably closer on that than you’d think. I just wish I had more time to spend reading and researching. (still, I’m out when it comes to the Gnostic ideas. then again, maybe I misunderstand exactly what those are) My faith, which I call Plain Vanilla Christianity, for lack of a better term, wasn’t indoctrinated into me. Nor was it the result of blind adherence to somebody else words or an emotional experience at church camp. In fact, I never went to camp.
                But I have had my own epiphany, so to speak. No angelic visions or voices from above, just a realization, based on a genuine search for knowable truth. And I know there is much yet for me to gain in understanding. My goal in life is to be less ignorant each day than the day before. (call it mission:impossible!)

                • Just sent you Light Smokin.
                  And I see it bears fruit.

                  I have chased this rabbit for 40 years. When I walked out of a hypocrite church.
                  I learn by standing on the shoulders of others.
                  If you can show me where I’m wrong, I will self correct. I am always the first to agree with a reasoned argument and humble myself before another who has caught an error in reason.
                  I just no longer consider ‘scriptural’ arguments; reasonable.
                  This is because they are not ‘provable’, they are all based in mysteries of men, sometimes evil men. Read Jude, “evil crept in unawares”.

                  I once asked a preacher man, if a small child, who was raised in a Buddhist family, who was a good boy, and never heard the name of Jesus, died, did he go to heaven or hell? The preacher man stated unequivocally that he would go to hell and burn for an eternity.
                  I asked, if he considered that ‘fair’? His non answer was telling; “We have to have faith, the rest is a mystery of God.”

                  I eventually gave up asking, because they all have variations on the same thing. Then I finally discovered the Gnosis, and what He actually taught. My eyes were opened to the Crime of Rome. He said He did not come to bring peace, but a sword. Right? Who, exactly, do you think wielded that Sword of Division? Ask yourself, would God author confusion and division, or perpetual arguments and anger over His ‘word’? Then compare the god of war, with the God of Love, and the writings of Paul vs what’s left of Jesus, who has more influence in the ‘word’? See the divisions, know the truth.

                  I would suggest, if you are trying to obtain ‘truth’, you must seek it diligently or try to prove me wrong. Truth is found in the discourse, not the sermon. My site is not organized in steps for a reason, so that only the true seekers, shall find, it is not for the others. (I am going to post a new page later today, just for you, on NDE’s. I suggest you add some of their wisdom to your knowledge, since, they have ‘been there’ and come back.)

                  Only when we have answered the question of; from whence comes the shadows, can we join hands together and walk into the light.

          • Hi Piper,

            Great idea…just an observation though; White is, and aleays has been, the color used for parley/negotiations …forever.

            • Which fits right into the ‘good guys’…
              or did I miss something?

      72. Just goes to show…..you can’t fix stupid!

      73. Reading the stories of unprepared people I can’t help but to remember from the book One Second After where the guy was chiding himself on not preparing. He thought to himself how much of a difference a 50 pound bag of rice for $20 before the event would have made a huge difference.

        On another note, I was at a local Menards today looking at generators (still haven’t got one because I’m trying to decide if I want to run extension cords or hard wire it to the house). I found that they are now selling food grade 5 gallon buckets with gamma lids!

        For $20 at Sams club or local box you can get 50 pounds of rice. For around $10 you can get a food grade bucket with a gamma lid. The only thing to remember is to get oxygen absorbers big enough for a 5 gallon bucket and they are cheap on Ebay.

        Let me repeat, for $50 anybody can have enough rice to get them and their family through a week or two. I understand that rice doesn’t have much for nutritional value, but add some cooked rice to a can of beans or tomato sauce as a filler and it can stretch your food reserves considerably.

        Anyways, I was excited to see the white buckets at Menards that have a big “FOOD GRADE” stamped on thier sides!

        • I have several hundred pounds packed away from when rice was $16 for 50 pounds. Plastic buckets are oxygen permeable so I inserted Mylar liners before filling the buckets to maximize storage time. I used dry ice to force out much of he oxygen before inserting my absorbers, but some people also use bottled nitrogen. Once the dry ice completely melted, I sealed the Mylar with an iron and put on the lids.

          I also packed away a lot of beans because together they make a complete protein, but beans older than about seven years get so hard they have to be pressure cooked or ground into powder.

          • @PP. Are food grade buckets oxygen permeable?
            Thanks for the help!

            • Norse Prepper.
              I just placed my rice in 5 gallon buckets with Diatomaceous Earth and a bay leaf or two.
              Same with dry goods..or oven canned in quart jars.

            • Soak your dried beans in a couple tb of baking soda overnight to make them cook quickly.

      74. To those subscribing to the Darwinian mindset from the warmth of their homes far from this tragedy:
        Print out your comment and post it prominently near your preps.
        When the schummer hits your street, it will remind you how compassionate you are.
        We were okay in NW NJ but friends who opted to bug in in Brooklyn were in very bad shape. They are not stupid people.
        One is a pediatric nurse, another has two masters degrees. Maybe they are cursed with that tough NY attitude, don’t know.
        Please do not ignore the psychology of survival. Its far more complex than that moron, Darwin.

        • sorry to disagree

          but having years of college level education doesn’t make you smart

          there’s street smarts and there’s book smart

          anyone who doesn’t keep a well stocked pantry,especially ahead of “the storm of the century” is woefully lacking in survival skills

          anyone who doesn’t evac a low lying area when the Governor of your state says to
          is just plain teh stoopid

          at some point you have to assume some responsibility for the consequences of your actions or your inactions

          decisions have consequences

          • I’ve found that generally speaking, the more someone has been “educated” in the conventional way…especially at the university level…the dumber they are.

            I’ve seen some real first-rate dumbasses with advanced degrees.

            This is especially true of those with advanced degrees in liberal arts, humanities and political science. And to a degree, I would also list the sciences like biology….or any other “science” that is heavily influenced by politics.

            I’ve found folks with degrees in a “hard” science like math, physics and chemistry to be a lot more logical in their reasoning.

          • Satori is right: Educated does NOT equal smart.

          • I don’t need some schmuck politician to tell me when to flee.

      75. I am

        __ Republican

        __ Democrat

        _X_ Awake

        • _X_Awake…

      76. these are the same people that complianed about G.Bush that he did nothing to help the katrina victims that was a lie anyway, and now, we have the same ones complaining about there liberal trash leaders are not moving fast enough, you deserve what you vote for, you vote for liars, thieves, murderers and now you are getting your just rewards, you complained about Bush, now go complain about your Messaih Obama in the White House, ask him to part the red sea, you libs in the Northeast make me sick.


        NWO ZOG FEDGOV training to kill ZOMBIES ??? … WTF ???

        There is a NEW Trend going on ACROSS AMERIKA right now by the FEDGOV DHS FBI CIA POLICE MILITARY referring to “AMERICAN CITIZENS” as ZOMBIES (even zog sold-out traitor radio hosts a.j. are doing it) during DHS NLE REGIONAL training exercises and in reports emails ;0P !!!

        ummmmmmm I do Hope all these “DHS Morons in ZOG DHS GESTAPO Police Security Uniforms” realize that they themselves and their families are considered USELESS EATER ZOMBIES BY THE NWO ZOG BANKERS as well !!!

        Learning DAILY about this EVER INCREASING DHS STEROID JACKED GESTAPO PSYCHO Bullsheeit MK-ULTRA PSYCHO IN UNIFORM CONDITIONING TRAINING like this AGAINST THE AMERIKAN CITIZENS … just reminds me to BUY more FMJ TRACER AMMO and to upgrade my Personal Arsenal to higher grade quality fire-arm units designed for BATTLE GROUND multi-target rich COMBAT ENVIRONMENTS !!!

        If you can’t see the Multiple Warnings Writings on the Walls of what the NWO ZOG FEDGOV DHS is planning for YOU ALL … then just






      78. Government dependent idiots.

      79. Generally speaking, the whiners are liberals (Demcrats),
        hence Katrina/Sandy.
        You never heard a peep out of the folks in the Midwest,
        Des Moines comes to mind. No looting, etc

      80. Check this out – pic from a station that was shut down due to fighting – most of these people didn’t even have cans to get gas in – most of the cans still have tags on them!


        New Yorkers are now dumpster diving:

        I wonder if people’s attitude toward ‘crazy’ preppers will change after this experience?

        Keep on preppin’
        PGH PA

        • i don’t think so, sorry to say

      81. The Red Cross disaster relief is always on the side of being broke. I would not give any $ to them. They
        tend to be mismanaged.

      82. @Be Informed – I come to this site mainly to read your
        posts. Re: Trust, and the quote you listed, I have
        heard that before and I wholeheartedly agree with you and the quote. I have been hurt and disappointed over
        the years and have learned discernment with people. Thank you for listing the author of the quote, I am going to write the name of the author down with the quote and post it on my mirror.

      83. @ Emily. James Cullinan has printed many little condensed booklets that are wisdom beyond the word. Finbarr International publishes these. I think they are still in business. Some of the titles are a little outlandlish, but others offer knowledge and hope, and what to look for in people that try to conceal their true selves.

      84. Bet there are a few folks in NJ that are glad they are preppers .

      85. What? They’re not happy with the hot coco and cookies that the red cross is handing out?

      86. Mulling over new clips of people ‘whining’ about lack of assistance is fun… because snap judgement of other people is a favorite contact sport among our species.

        But it is important to realize that when people are faced with hardship it is natural to complain. It does not mean these people are incapable of or unwilling to cope, it’s just part of the emotional sharing process. We do not change lightly, we must be shown and we must experience.

        Sure, many were caught unprepared — but I’ll bet many a person you have seen interviewed has since buckled down and will preach preparedness from now on. And so it must be, the grasshopper shall become the ant.

        They too will acquire and properly maintain an escape goat.

      87. Looters, I hope and pray they get their just reward. These are not people in need, these are simple criminals who should be shot. Unfortunately, our laws are against the home owner defending his property.
        Every time there is a disaster the same type of individuals are involved. Criminal trash which belongs 6 ft. under or in prison. I can only hope the authorities will not be too concerned about their rights.
        Unfortunately, the elderly and disabled will most likely be the targeted victims of these hoodrats. Businesses which are looted may not re-open again, but then again, these individuals could care less.
        Maybe, just maybe, they will finds a home owner who just had enough.

      88. I want my free gooberment stuff. I am entitled because I am American.

        In all seriousness, I have a website that is informational on how to prepare and store your own food for prepping. I have noticed a 20% increase in traffic since the media started announcing the storm was coming. The problem is, most of the increase us from overseas and the Deep South. Now anyone getting prepared is good, but those that should have been were not doing so . I bet the traffic from the NE increases when things return to a semblance if normalicy.


        I really do not understand what these people are complaining about. Here they have the perfect opportunity to live the Democrat dream and all they can do is whine. So they lost their houses. There is the Democratic dream of government housing they can move to. They need food, go on food stamps and let the government feed them. They are sick or hurt, there is government Medicare. Why I am sure if they wait long enough, after all they helped vote Obama back into presidency, he will personally buy the a brand new phone.

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