Standstill: The Charts That Prove The Global Economy Is In Serious Trouble

by | Dec 12, 2012 | Headline News | 245 comments

Do you LOVE America?


    Amid growing concern that the global economy is teetering on the edge of a total collapse, governments in Europe, China and the United States continue to manipulate statistics in an effort to paint a picture of recovery and a return to normalcy.

    But despite their best efforts to fabricate positive employment numbers, GDP growth, currency stability and stock market health, the stark reality is that the global economy is at a standstill, and has been since before the crash of 2008.

    Economic growth is measured by how much we produce and consume, and before the bursting of the bubble there was an unprecedented level of consumption in America and throughout the rest of the world. But when credit markets and lending froze in response to a loss of confidence in the financial system following the collapse of investment giants Bear Stearns and Merrill Lynch, the economy as we had come to know it fell apart.

    Consumption fell off a cliff and left America in its deepest recessionary environment since the 1930’s.

    For those paying attention to the Baltic Dry Index, a global measure of the costs to transport raw materials, this collapse was reflected several months before panic gripped investors and led to stock market crashes around the world.

    Introduced in 1985, the Baltic Dry Index first and foremost is a measure of the global shipping rates of dry bulk goods, mostly consisting of vital raw materials used in the creation of other products.  However, it is also a measure of demand for said materials in comparison to previous months and years.

    Source: Alt Market

    In essence, the price of transporting goods collapsed – to its lowest levels ever. That old theory of supply and demand was the culprit. You see, when there is no money to buy goods, there is no demand for said goods. This puts pressure on transportation companies who make a living moving products from port to port around the world. But because no one was able to consume, there was no need to ship anything. This forced transportation companies to reduce their freight rates in an effort to stay competitive.

    As the chart above demonstrates, there was a massive drop-off in prices during the summer of 2008, at right about the time Americans were getting wind a recession was looming. There was a slight bounce in response to the multi-trillion dollar bailouts promised by Congress and Presidents Bush and Obama, but the bubble created on cheap borrowing and negligent lending couldn’t be blown back up.

    Four years on, with literally tens of trillions of dollars infused into the system by central banks all over the world, transportation rates for goods remain at near all time lows, suggesting that our governments’ best efforts have failed miserably.

    And rather than the economic improvement touted by the best and brightest of our politicians, economists and financial gurus, we are nowhere near where we were before the crash.

    In fact, it’s getting worse, as evidenced by the latest Baltic Dry Index report, which this morning experienced its biggest single day drop since 2008:

    It has been a while since we looked at the Baltic Dry Index, which when normalizing for the excess glut in dry container ship supply (such as right now – 5 years after all the excess supply in the industry – has long been normalized), continues to be one of the best concurrent indicators of global shipping and trade. We look at it today, moments ago it just posted an epic 8.2% plunge, crashing from 900 to 826, or the biggest drop since 2008! Of course, conisdering the collapse in global trade confirmed in past days by both Chinese and US data, this should not come as a surprise, although we are certain it will merely bring out the BDIY apologists who tell us that supply and demand here (like in every other Fed-supported market) are completely uncorrelated.

    Source: Zero Hedge

    The bottom line is that American consumers are broke (and hungry). But not only are we broke, we owe more than we can ever hope to make to pay back the loans we took on during ‘the boom times.’

    The notion that we are somehow in an economic recovery while 100 million Americas are classified as poor, with hundreds of thousands entering poverty on a monthly basis is ridiculous on its face.

    We are in serious trouble folks.

    Had you asked Americans in the Spring of 2008 if they were ready for the coming real estate bubble collapse and stock market crash that would see 40% of their wealth wiped out they would have laughed in your face.

    They’ll laugh in your face today, too, should you tell them things are only going to get worse. But the numbers don’t lie.

    We are in what many have referred to as America’s next great depression.

    Laugh if you want, but reality will soon take that smile right off your face.


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      1. We all know the house of cards is coming down

        • This is not about you JJsan. You don’t need a chart to understand that Gas,food and just about anything you buy takes all you own to purchase. There is no way someone can continue on making 10 bucks an hour in this crazy economy. I heard on the radio since now there is global competition and we used to be able to import items dirt cheap and get a lot and still make things here was years ago. Now even chinese goods for the most part are not dirt cheap and suck and manufacturing jobs are gone and everyone wants a good paying job. Just doenst make sense. Now you add on top that deadbeats and welfare idiots(ones that abuse it and you know the ones im talking about) are draining us dry, its not going to go on much longer. I think its going to be a slow kill on people. I wish it would just get over with it. But the positive we preps can get what we need still before it hits.

          • we have some manufacturing jobs around here

            I always have to laugh when I see the ad in the paper advertising for workers
            it’s always the same

            $8.50 an hour
            and they always add a couple of exclamation points with that
            like its some great wage

            WTF ???

            $8.50 an hour to slave your life away in some crap factory ???

            welcome to your new reality America

            • you can make more than that collecting pop cans on the side of the road with a skateboard. lol

              • If a person was able to “make more by collecting pop cans” then that person would have to collect 13 pounds per hour. That is 300 cans per hour. Five cans per minute. Very difficult to do especially on an eight or ten hour shift, day after day. It is much easier to work at a minial job at $ 8.50 per hour. This is the kind of job for wise ass punks that think they don’t need to put forth a minimum of effort in high school in order to graduate.

                • I used to feel sad for all the students I had who would goof off, screw around in class, try to sleep in my class (!) drive everyone crazy, cause an endless amount of hand wringing and parent teacher conferences, only to end up dropping out of school. I knew they faced a shit future at best, or at worst were going to end up in prison or on a slab after being killed by the homeowner whose home they tried to “invade”

                  I don’t have the luxury of feeling sad anymore. Honestly, I have too much on me just keeping my life together. Some kids will make it, just as some adults will make it. As for the rest: I did my best. I don’t know what the hell else one man can do

                • Son of sam, I know what you mean. I had a very slight case of ADD but never took meds for it but had a drive to always succeed. I Hard hard time focusing in school and was always joking around just a tad. I went into navy got out and did hard work to construction to work in a pharmacy and got a bachelors degree in science in the midwest. I had to work for it and a lot of these guys might turn around but sad truth is many won’t. My father told me to drop out of college and get a factory job, glad I didn’t take his advise. He just didn’t know any better.

                • I picked up $43 worth in laurelhurst park alone one evening. Then scavenged another $13 along the street. I did about the same 2-3 nights per week, EVERY WEEK. That is a fact. I moved out of the area but my friend still does it. That too, is a fact.

                • Comanche: The only place I can think of to collect that kind of quantity of cans in your timeframe is the area around a college’s stadium parking lot after a game. Went to a football game — thousands of empty cans in the parking lot…what a sight. Couple enterprising college students had grocery carts (doubt they were their own…lol) full of cans, in addition to large black garbage bags full of cans tied to every part of the cart. Talked to one of the kids and he was enthusiatic about the opportunity that had presented itself except when we were commenting on how gross people can be…his reply was to point across the parking lot, “yeah, there are some dead animal body parts over there.”

              • Maybe YOU can. (Make more than that… pop cans). I can’t. I tried.

                • The popcan was a joke being sarcastic meaning people don’t get paid for what they do sometimes or what they are worth.

              • exactly, and a I HAVE done that.

            • How very true. And of course, for all of that $8.50 an hour they tack on other jobs to yours as well.
              My neighbor’s daughter got a job as a cashier at Aldi’s, her added job responsibility?
              Cleaning the toilets.
              I am seeing so many jobs like that, receptionist/cleaning woman, pet bather/maintenance man/landscaper.
              Recent job opening out here for 9/11 dispatcher. 6 job openings. Over 500 people applied.
              Folks were mostly over 40.

              • I mean shrug. Yeah that sucks but they call it a job for a reason. I mean ok the wage is BS. Got it. But adding on crap? You have no idea the amount of excess sh*t that gets tacked on to my job.

                • I hear ya TGuy: when I was going to school to become a teacher, I worked in a group home 7 am to midnight Sat and Sun. One of the guys there would have grand mal seizures and shit his pants. Guess who got to clean his ass up, literally?

                  That’s the reason I go batshit crazy when I hear about “jobs Americans won’t do”

              • we’re in S,Fl. my wife runs a temp agency ,she has profesionals coming in every day begging for that $8.50 hr ,ive taken some bottom of the barrel jobs in my life (below min.wage) to feed my family ,but ive never been on the dole ,my old man always said better to get out and make some money ,then sitting home on your ass making no money ,hey i dont agree with the terrible wage’s ,but welcome to the new normal ,take the crap job ,use the money to buy some rice and beans ,shortly there wont be any jobs………besides if you dont work who will take care of the other 51% of the population

                • Things have changed though. Back in the day you took a crap job as a stop gap till things got better if you were older, or until you had solid proof of a strong work ethic if a youngster. Providing you were a grafter things did, would and could get better. I’ve done my own share.

                  Now that minimum wage job is the best it gets for many. That’s a HUGE change.

              • It’s not like that everywhere. I’ve been trying to hire someone for “general help” for my mother. Mostly help clean, errands, light cooking, etc. First I tried to go thru the agencies. They all have hard caps on what their people will do (i.e., only 25% housework). They won’t help with hygiene, no medical (i.e., getting their medicine, they’ll only hand her the bottles – I understand that one but it still limits what can be done). And absolutely no skills for anything handy (i.e., hang a picture, put the base on a new TV). And they all are SLOW. 45 minutes to change a bed? Really? Private, independent hires aren’t much better. And not fully vetted to boot.

                Now I’m in a more urban/college town. Previously in rural Georgia — where there is rampant unemployment — still no one was interested for less than $20 per hour. Even with cash under the table so their gov’t benefits stay intact.

                Depending on the market, elder care seems like a good area if you’re looking for work. Older people are so desperate for help and apparently anyone with any initiative is fully employed at high rates elsewhere around here.

              • Gave you a thumbs up, but I don’t “like” the situation, itself, you’re discussing. Our country is so messed up. I used to be a police dispatcher and was so proud of it. I have a degree in European History (worthless in the real world) and it did help me get the job. Do you know anything about the person who was eventually hired? I’d think over 40 is pushing it because you really use your eyes and hearing, especially hearing, in this position. Sadly, the hearing of most people is beginning to fade after 40, and I’m pushing that myself and not meaning to be rude.

                For “Be Informed”, I saw yesterday that there was a quake in Tennessee. Are you seeing anything that should concern us? We’re in Ohio. The USGS page I visit is not functioning very well and it takes up to six hours to download information about an event. Think it’s their site as the rest of the internet works well for me.

                • @Vicky: thank you for your service. Testing still continues for these 6 spots. A 2nd test, physical exam (hearing/vision) drug test – background investigation & oral interviews should screen out quite a few folks
                  therefore, out of over 500 applicants, they can hire the very best. There weren’t many young applicants for those positions. Too bad, because it pays well with great benefits.

                  My neighbor’s daughter I mentioned, the cashier/bathroom cleaner – is in her 50’s.
                  Older wait staff at our local restaurants etc., and Home Depot employees with master’s degrees.
                  By comparing generations, there is a huge difference in work ethics.

            • The French have a saying, “The more things change the more they remain the same”.

              We’re headed backwards to sweatshop 1890 while the Chinese are going from the stone age to sweatshop 1890.

              To keep control they need to keep you hungry. For the Chinese that required lifting them from deadly starvation giving them a small taste and thereby creating dependency. The developed world needed to be brought down to a level where your far too occupied with individual survival to have the luxury of obtaining political inclusion.

            • And for an $8.50 per hour job they want a PhD and 15 years experience!!!!

            • I respect your post Satori, but with all due respect, the secret to job success is not to worry about the entry level pay. Instead, focus on the opportunity. That’s right—the opportunity to get through the door first and then demonstrate ability so well that you’re promoted on the fast track. Be assured, a good faith, hard work ethic attracts serious consideration.

              Many years ago, I took on a seemingly mindless company job at minimum wage when no other employees would accept the position. But I put forth an astonishing effort, transforming the job into unrealized value and wowing the executives. Within just 4 years, I was the highest paid employee of all, except for the man who signed the check himself. It was still the same job I started with at minimum wage!

              Today, I still do the same job, but with my own company at higher pay still and have left my old bosses behind in the dust.

              Moral to learn—no one’s a diva on day one. Don’t look for lotto sums to be handed out for auditioning. Take the opportunity, earn it, and blow them out of the water, even with ‘a factory job.’ Be so valuable, they CAN’T AFFORD to let you leave.

              Get in, create your own buyer’s market of self-worth and then watch the bosses beat a path to you with their checkbook. The trick is building your real worth with smart energy, once inside.

          • I do not ever, even in thrift stores, buy ANYTHING made in china….that said, who do you think supports N.Korea? AND, just what did N. Korea put into orbit which is now “tumbling” uncontrolled? Events such as this present even more “angst” to already anxious people….so sad that our gov’t cannot or will not provide the information needed that could aleve so much stress…..but, wait, perhaps that is why they don’t?

        • Folks we are already seeing Greece and Spain scenarios playing out on our shores. We have a bankrupt nation we now have violence on the street. Most recently in Michigan with the labor unions committing violence and threatening death with those that oppose them.

          Recently we saw in Ohio a couple thousand who applied for government subsidize housing and had to be maced by the police because they became unruly.

          The transformation of America is taking place right now and it will get violent as more cities and states declare bankruptcy. Wait till the gov’t cuts back on medicaid and medicare.

          • The gub has already cut medicare back. It will take place as of jan 1…a 25.8% cut to providers…clinics are closing, dr.’s retiring, providers dropping out…

            Those of us who are paying in or those who are receiving it have been robbed.

            Medicaid is for those who provide less than nothing to the earth or humanity. Not sorry for being so blunt. Nothing will happen to it.

        • What percentage of American Zombies will off themselves post-collapse?

          I’m guessing 25%. What do you think? I feel bad asking that question, but, oh well.

          • n..n..n..not enough. oh, how b.b.bad I am.

            • Shit sorry…meant thumbs up. God help em, but it’s gonna happen unfortunately.

            • I also had a startling realization today. Instead of Suicide by Cop, its Suicide by Prepper. Scary.

          • Why would they want to do that?

            More frighteningly… if they do CHOOSE to do that, why do you think they wouldn’t “invite” others to join them? I mean… it’s not like they’re gonna get punished at that point, is it?

          • Well, considering that most of the population over the age of 6 is on some kind of meds to keep them calm, happy, etc., I can see a massive zombie world until they either suicide or get killed by another zombie. Then there are the several hundred million guns in the hands of these people.

            The idea is to NOT be in the area when that happens. Be outside of cities or large towns or anywhere a large number of people live. Hunker down until it blows over. Probably withing a few months as the meds wear off and either sanity returns or they are gone.

          • My that would off themselves will not survive the first week or so and will be killed by the Thugs. So it would be hard to say.

            Think after the first year. Think how many survive then probably 25% is a good number. This in a total grid/Economic crash.

            Straight Economics and the lights stay on. Depends on country. Europe 25% USA 10% Japan 50%. Rest actually less but will loss more to loss of food.

            • My opinion:
              The people most likely to “give up” when things collapse around them are also the ones most opposed to personal ownership of weapons.
              How will they kill themselves?
              They will withdraw and become lumps. Then become victims. Then become bodies.
              They will WISH they were dead long before they die.
              And their finals days (weeks, months) will be horrifying.
              Women & children gang-raped, over and over again.
              Men forced to watch their wives and daughters and sons horribly abused, as the more brutal survivors taunt them in their powerlessness.

              Will you kill your family to spare them the horror?
              Will you think any life is better than death?
              Will you turn the other cheek?
              Or will you become just another monster?

          • how would you know ,i was talking to a deputy i know ,and asking him how the crime was doing in the neighborhood ,he said not bad ,but suisides were up ,i said oh yea how many this year ,he said this year! we been getting about 2 a week ,i never saw any of it in the paper

        • @ Be Informed

          Sorry folks, off topic.

          Hey B.I., I stumble across a rather odd dissertation on the New Madrid tonight. Thought I’d pass it onto you for review. Not sure of the site’s credentials, but the 1st video does appear to have referenced a few ‘geologists’.
          Another vid sources ‘’.
          Yeah I know, let’s don’t go there. That said, I’m curious if you think a 9.0 is possible on the New Madrid Fault?
          See link below:

          …and if true, what’s up with the recent cancellation of earthquake insurance by some companies relative to those homeowners to the fault-line? What do said insurance companies know that most are unaware of?

          Anyone out there in the fault’s proximity able to comment or substantiate this data?

          • @ Anton Hackl. Sorry for not getting back to you sooner, but sometimes comments get into the middle of a comment section and I just don’t see them. I truly believe that based on the amount of fault that would break that the New Madrid is capable of a maximum mid 8 range, BUT with the amount of shaking that a 9.0 in the west coast areas would be like. The old rock under the soil here is very dense and will magnify the earthquake. The seismic graphs will say 8.0-8.5, but it would feel like a 9.0 and so would be the destruction.

            There was an earthquake on the Mid-Atlantic Ridge today that was at about at the Tropic Of Cancer. This would be energy that likely came from the furthest northern portion of the New Madrid. Insurance companies know where there is going to be a disaster some of the time, and they pay for this secret information that will not reach the public. The Caribbean plate is ready to go off and this affects the New Madrid big time, they likely know this.

            All I can say is that the Cascadia fault is hanging on a thread right now, the Caribbean on dental floss, the San Andreas on clothes line, and the New Madrid on a rope. I truly think that the New Madrid will have to be triggered by some other plate than the North America plate almost all of us in the U.S. ride on. This is why I say to look at other areas away from the New Madrid fault system as an indication of what the fault will do.

        • I silently scream when I see articles about the fiscal cliff and how if we go over, it might push us into a “second recession”….as if the first in 2008 is mile behind us. …The media is pathetic,the worst part is people actually believe their lies and useless drivel.

          • True, but remember, the media is reporting to the Obama supporters… The others do not matter.

          • But you don’t understand: When the Baltic finally dries up; what are the poor fish going to do?

      2. I don’t know what to say other than This very alarming. Anyone not prepping now is about to regret it for sure. It shouldn’t be long before we start seeing more and more shortages I would think.

        • I agree with you. It’s bad and this idiot is on vacation and should of been working on this now, Obama can lie and give his speeches but this is real! YOu know there is no way they can stop this. If there was a way they would be tackling it but they are not. Each time the amounts get worse and bigger. They are just making the withdraw much worse. and with bigger impacts will be bigger riots.

          • A minor matter.. but.. so glad to hear the idiot who flipped out in Oregon used a stolen gun. And, oh, thanks for offing youself, dickhead.

            • I would like to really know that “nuts” whereabouts for the last few years. Truly know.

              These “random senseless shootings” tend to appear when anti gun legislation is on the burner. For a roughly 8 year period it was extremely infrequent when the political composition of the Presidency and Houses made anti gun laws highly unlikely to pass.

      3. I am not smiling..Mac..

        We are indeed entering into the new phase of shtf.

        best to have that plan..

        Thanks for all you do..

        and all the fantastic posters and commenter s here.


        • POSSEE – Well said ! I also salute the other posters here.
          Quite a few posters seem to work their butt of entering useful info for us all. Wish 95% of you were my neighbors in our own palisaded safe zone. Instead I have some neighbors with the IQ and awareness of a mold spore.
          Now it is just a small unit of aware souls. Not enough to be safe for the long term.

          All of you be safe and learn/acquire what you can. And do have the best Christmas possible !

          • Well said Niner X-Ray….I have the same issue with basically clueless neighbors! I wish that I could transport many of the folks here as my neighbors…..

        • Yo,Posse-I’m with you on that which is why I’m prepping full speed ahead on all fronts-pm’s,food,water,weapons,material,seeds,etc,etc.and I must say it’s rather consuming,but I look at people that’re paying child suuport/maintenance and wonder what’ll happen when shtf;one guy I know is paying $1500/mth,wife is slightly daft,and has a real “yen” against him since he file for the divorce and he’s saying if it gets too bad,he’ll grab his daughter and to hell with her and the courts. I told him to think long&hard cause if things really get out of control,you just might end up with her holding on real tight to you. This is a situation that’ll probably play out repeatedly cause so many people just aren’t paying attention to S—and don’t have a clue about jack. It’ll be like when you lock yourself out of house/car and in that sudden moment when the door shuts;OH S—,WTF now? Not a good feeling;espically if it’s cold out and you’re not dressed.

      4. Because of Ocommie care many employers will cut employees hours to 20-25 hrs per week…….SO said employees will get one to two more part time jobs just to get buy OR they will quit and get another full time job and you will hear ”Big Brother” chest pounding about all the the wonderful jobs that were created. Keep stocking up on that food,we are going to need it. Best wishes to all and god help us.

        • Just so you can get some perspective of where the US is going…here is a slice of the Philippines.

          Laborers on the construction project next door, building a 35 story condo tower, make $10 per day for 10 hours. No benefits. That is an income of $2,000 per year. Then they pay taxes on that. And VAT here is 12% on most everything.

          Registered architects working in offices here make $25 per day or $5,000 per year after 5 years of college. They do have paid holidays.

          The President of the Philippines makes $18,000.00 PER YEAR … and presides over 90 million people.

        • Audentis: It’s amazing that the simple minded fools in D.C. couldn’t see this one coming; Employers keeping the best, or most senior people, and reducing the hours of everyone else to stay under the mandate for providing insurance to employees. The rest will take part time positions and get secord and even third jobs because they are now on the hook for buying their own insurance since their employer doens’t have to. In this economy these other employees won’t have a choice. What’s D.C.s next move; perhaps telling all employers that they have to pay for insurance regardless of the number of employees they have. Solution: everyone is laid off and taken back as self-employed sub-contractors. The company will offer good wages and free access to their accounting software for payroll purposes, but the new sub-contactors won’t be employees of the company and each will be responsible for their own insurance payments, which of course, will be set up as part of the accounting software programming. There’s always a way around government regulations. Don’t you just love American ingenuity!

      5. Baltic Dry Index is also influenced by the number of new ships ordered during the Housing Nunble that are just now being delivered.

        Increase in the supply of available ships is helping to keep shipping costs down.

      6. In the event of a total economic collapse I have decided not to participate. Please send all bills to Washington DC 20202

        • And tell em to send all the zombies that way too!

      7. The writing is on the wall for those willing to read it. For those that aren’t, well, all dreams come to an end. Wake up now and be prepared, or be woken up rudely only to realize you are too late.

      8. Good thing that certain products are still making it to market:

        • Question is

          for how long..?

          supplies are tight up here in the Northeast

          then again..that figures since I live in the belly of the beast surrounded by massholes..

          strictest state by far..

          everything is illegal in Massachusetts..
          except illegals..

          and our atty general stated..

          “being illegal is not illegal” in mass.

          oh the horror when all the ebt welfare recipients cards won’t work..


          • Possee….I just got to visit your corner.

            BTW, I hear HAARP was active again, and you might get a wallop of snow the next week or 10 days.

            Stay firm and know that TPTB will divert all the attention in this mess into the great M.E war coming to a screen new you.

            Then again, make sure you got plenty of $$, silver, lead, water and #10 cans.

            • Watchdog

              It is always active somewhere on the globe lately..
              Much like Sandy taking a hard left
              or the Philippines monsoon turning around to lash once again
              or the Joplin Mo warned by dutchsinse
              Those signatures always appear before many major weather events days before as they heat up the ionosphere..all linked to Teslas experiments almost a century ago.

              Meanwhile, $$ is very tight..but lead and canned goods are in decent supply..never enough lead though..

              Let’s see what this new QE4 multi billion fiasco brings us for the upcoming new surely won’t be comforting..

              Personally.I see a quickening in the degradation of the frn’s and increasing inflation in the coming months..
              hope I’m wrong on all of it..but so instincts have proven correct in the long run..

              Let’s hope BeInformed is totally wrong in his calculations as well..but far he has been correct as well..

              stay safe


          • My home state. I consider myself a refugee now. My old Dad fled in 1964 – he could see it coming even then. Nowadays I don’t even drive through MA when I’m going to Maine.

      9. If you are not prepping, your just inepting. Life is going to get real strange quickly

      10. “Had you asked Americans in the Spring of 2008 if they were ready for the coming real estate bubble collapse and stock market crash that would see 40% of their wealth wiped out they would have laughed in your face.”

        This exactly happened to me. Many of my friends called me stupid for liquidating most of my realestate a few months before the crash at below market prices.
        Most of them today are broke and have lost most of what they had.

        • Capben

          I got out of the market in Feb 2007 and was laughed at too.

          The masses are always wrong. If they we’re always right the system wouldn’t function as it’s designed to.

        • Capben and Kevin2: Glad to see a couple of savvy investors. I too made the mistake of thinking out loud about the economy at work one day and was told by one lady that I was a ‘gloom and doomer’. Everyone else just thought I was crazy because they were all making lots of money at that time. Well she and nearly everyone else lost 50% of their 401k’s from ($50,000 to over $200,000) while my wife and I made a little money. They were all loosing their minds while glued to the big screen tv we had in the office. I can’t feel sorry for idiots, in fact I rubbed a little salt in their wounds by asking many of them how they were doing and complaining that I was only making a few percent in bonds. It’s like Ron White says, “You can’t fix stupid”.

          • Gregory8

            Most have a herd mentality and never bother to examine WHY things are doing what they’re doing. They’re worried that they will miss out on the very last dime on the rise never considering a downside. Pigs get fat, hogs get slaughtered. Greed gets them every time.

            I read The Market Oracle about the derivatives size and scope. They had an article Feb 23rd 2007. That was the straw that broke the camels back. That should frighten the crap out of anyone.

            I seen the same people do the same thing in 2000.

        • China must be a Right to Work country!!

          • No, it’s a work or get shot kind of state.

      11. I am certain that they will lie to our faces even when the economy collapses and guess what? The masses will believe whatever they shove down their throats. It will be Bushes’ fault, it will be the right’s fault, it will be the rich ones fault, it will be everyone’s fault but theirs. I can not conceive how any one person could possibly believe the garbage that comes out of the mouths of the elite and the mass media.

        Face it, we live in the most corrupt time since the the constitution was written. We have lying thugs running the white house, we have over half of our society sucking off the system and we have a small minority of Americans who can see through all the smoke and mirrors what is actually going on. Does anyone think they will not do everything possible to keep us, the minority quiet? For the ones in charge, this is their dream coming true, this is their final wall to break through and then they can be the ruthless, vile, unconscionable, socialist, progressive, dictators that they have always wanted to be. Control, control, control, through power over the weak and needy. If only the black people, the ignorant, the poor, and many of the college students could see what this dictator has done to damage their chances of having a decent future, even more than it was before him.

        He is the most powerful slave master of them all, he keeps them in their crime ridden neighborhoods, he rewards them for having more babies out of wedlock, he denies them the right to go to a better school, he gives them just enough to keep them as his chained wards, with no chance of ever leaving the system to earn and count on themselves. He is the stripper of human dignity and hope. As for the so called middle-class, he wants them gone.
        I guess we better just prepare for ourselves, hope more people wake up, and take comfort in knowing that one day this monster and his minions will be held accountable.

        • (…round of applause…)

        • Come on, guys, I don’t like that mulatto import from Africa any more than the rest of you, but he ain’t runnin’ the show, he’s just a hired step-n-fetch-it, clever con-man, in the employ of…..guess who?

      12. I would rather be wrong about all this and have people be justified in their laughing at me, but it doesn’t appear this will be the case.

        I just cashed out my pension at my old job simply because I don’t foresee it being available by the time I reach retirement age. That’s 12 years out still.

        • Even if you did make it to your retirement, would you trust them to keep paying it for the rest of your life after you retire? I think you made the right decision

        • We also took early withdrawal and paid our home off. Best thing we ever did!

        • …Scout…I did the same thing after ’08. My advisor is a friend of mine and he said that everybody is cashing out.

          • Cashed out my Cd and bought Pms.

      13. I guess this precipitious drop in demand would represent the hyper-inflationary crash all of the “experts” on Alt Media have been predicting. LMAO!

        NONE of the bailout programs initiated thus far were DESIGNED to stimulate the economy. All of these bailout programs were designed to replace the losses of the Uber Rich and protect their capital that is tucked away in various investment funds.

        If you want to stimulate the economy you must do these things:

        STOP the off shoring of American jobs and stop subsidizing corporations to move their factories off shore.

        PENALIZE them for doing so; in fact, penalize any corporation who has moved facilities off shore in the past 15 years. Require that they repatriate the profits that they made on these off shore factories and tax it.

        DECLARE a debt holiday (jubilee) of some sort for individuals with student loans. These individuals represent a new generation of consumers, new family households, and entrepeneuers. Relieve them of their debt burden and the economy will expand as they move on with their lives.

        PROVIDE a 5 year tax break (moratorium)for new company formation and for new plant and equipment for any company that employs ten employees or more in the first year.

        CUT ALL government spending 20% across the board with the exception of SSI and Medicare. Start by canceling special privileges, retirement, and health insurance for Congress.

        ALL government employee travel (except troops) must be by lowest cost airfare.

        REDUCE ALL salaries for Congress and ALL government workers by 20%.

        Drastic times call for drastic measures.

        • I know you and me think the plunge wont happen for some time from our posts. but do you think its going to get rough here soon or will it drag on for many more months or years durango. YOu make sense to me.

          • Never let a crisis go to waste. Conditions will continue as is for the foreseeable future.

            I expect that economic conditions will give O’bummer the latitude he needs to introduce sweeping changes in the next State of The Union Address for politicians to quibble about the LSM to parse, and Patriots to clean their guns.

            As long as people are eating and have a place to live, a big screen TV, Internet access, and Obama phone there will be no Revolution next year.

            Gasoline prices have dropped to about $3.25 in Phoenix. Nationally, people are just not driving much, and the next generation will learn to love their micro apartments next to the light rail system.


            • Durango, inflation and unemployment can work together: its called stagflation. I wouldn’t bank on prices plunging, quite the opposite

              • SOS: Sure WE have seen stagflation before. But “quite the opposite” is inflation. Right now its all about demand.

                I have outlined the death spiral before, no reason to repeat it now, but the BDI is a visible graphic that depicts where WE are at.

                A good war will change shipping demand and prices in a hurry. Next!!! 🙂

            • Unfortunately DK, I feel that there is validity to your point of view. As long as there is no huge “Black Swan” event I feel it’s gonna be a slow burn.

            • I build those micro apartments in downtown Phoenix.Been doing a lot more of those lately.

          • Outside forces like a large-scale natural disaster could easily push America over the edge. The U.S. economy probably couldn’t recover, and no Sandy was not a large-scale disaster.

        • Durango Kidd:

          It’s over. The debt will never be paid. Check and Mate.

          Button down on your prepping this month, because its going to be a LONG WINTER.

          • Iowa: Its not over. LMAO! 🙂

            The debt doesn’t have to be repaid. It will be monetized until the system is reversed, the dollar and other currencies are backed by metals, and the US becomes an exporting nation again.

            American debt instruments are ESSENTIAL to global commerce.

            Where do you think Apple stashed that $84 billion in cash they were holding prior to to special one time dividend to stockholders to beat the Fiscal Cliff?

            That’s just one company. Multiply that by thousands of companies, no, tens of thousands of companies that hold trillions of dollars of American debt.

            Start filling up #10 cans with Hamilton and Franklin. If the world economy crashes in a deflationary spiral, investors will not be able to buy dollars fast enough!!! 🙂

            • The banker PTB will never let a deflation get started. It will massacre them. They control all the fiat money systems, and will just keep inflating. It does them less harm, and they don’t give a rat’s behind what it does to us.


              Only thing that might take their power down is a widespread war, or a grid-down catastrophe.

              Anybody notice that, despite the plunge in the Baltic Dry, our trade deficit with China hit a new record this month?

              Finally, there is no subsidy given to any company to export jobs. Companies move out because taxes here are too high, plus the EPA/OSHA/EEOC regulations< and now Obamacare, make it almost impossible to run at a profit. The manufacturing sector in the USA is actually quite healthy, but it's using automation in lieu of hiring low-skill people. There's actually a huge demand for high-skill people, (software, high tech maintenance people, engineers, even engineering management), that's going unfilled. My old employer (I'm retired) has asked me to come back twice in three years. What would I be doing if I went back? Automation.

              • TOC: I agree with what you say Coach, for the most part anyway,but it is possible that the PTB could miscalculate, and not be able to reverse a downward spiral that feeds on itself and has too much momentum.

                Not likely but possible. And yes the GB’s and Uber Rich have the most to lose so they will do everything they can to avoid it.

                Companies are allowed to expense certain costs on the transfer of business over seas and the closing of plants here. It is a tax deduction and that deduction represents a subsidy.

                I will defer to Mal for accounting questions.

            • American debt instruments are ESSENTIAL to global commerce. – No they aren’t, and to think that they are is a dangerous assumption.
              The current system of international finance that gives the USD a dual role in both domestic and international functions becomes more incompatible the longer the dual functionality continues.
              America must run Trade deficits to provide the world with dollars to provide liquidity for Global transactions, this isn’t good American jobs.
              We currently have certain countries (looking at you China) you look to get rid of USD for tangible assets as quickly as possible – why anything tangible is better than a piece of paper?
              As the Chinese run down their holdings of USD backed assets and set up currency trades outside of the USD system, they are looking at an endgame where there is a new PM backed global currency, all USD financial instruments have been returned to the US in return for tangibles, and outside of the US nobody wants payment in USD.
              I think the globe will get burnt if the Chinese (or someone else) succeeds, but if the US domestic market is awash with returning US denominated financial instruments – that is going to be very messy.
              The uber wealthy may state for sheeple consumption that gold is a barbarous relic, but I bet they are all taking delivery of their PM’s.

              Food, Bullets and Band-aids are my favoured asset classes.

              • Biggles: Under the current scheme of phony, crony capitalism US debt instruments ARE essential because these debt instruments represent near cash securities for the investors that buy them, from the most powerful military machine ever assembled.

                This military power secures the wealth of the global Uber Rich in these assets, which makes the assets secure, fungible (readily redeemable), and convenient. Global commercial transactions conducted in US Dollars represent 55-65% of ALL transactions.

                The Pound, the international standard for 27 members of the British Commonwealth, and the Euro comprise a majority of the balance.

                Eventually the Chinese yuan will be part of the equation, AS IT SHOULD, since China is three times the population of the US and (in dollar terms) second in the world in GDP and growing.

                Eventually the system will change as the economies of other nations mature, like it has almost continually since WWI, but not today, and not tomorrow. It will be years before another adjustment (Bretton Woods III, but for now the dollar is the weapon of choice.

                After the world has been made safe for phony crony capitalism, rebellion has been squashed (think syria and Iran)a new financial standard will be adopted. At that time, Gold will again back fiat to establish stability.

                Three to five years out is my guess. Maybe more. progress continues, but progress is slow. 🙂

                • DK: I see India buying Iranian oil for gold. China buying oil for trinkets and gold. Chinese doing straight currency swaps with other countries. It wasn’t so long ago that international transactions had to pass through New Year. Many countries engaging in trashing the value of their currencies in a bid to get some sort of advantage over each other.
                  There is some sort of chaos in the currencies markets like I haven’t seen before.
                  I hear people say the BRIC’s will offer a new standard – I doubt this. They are each so different from the other.
                  The first country to back its currency with Gold or Silver or something else tangible will be in the box seat to set the rules for the new financial trading system. It is much more plausible that America will do this than say China, but that may be due to my biases and personal preferences. But that won’t stop them from trying.

                • Biggie: The first nation to back their fiat with gold will have a run on its gold reserves. It will be a “giant sucking sound” to rival NAFTA.

                  Invest in gold, speculate with silver, and hoard your lead. They won’t be making any more after the Changes.

          • Iowa: Actually it seems to be a mild winter so far and that is not good for the ski resorts.

            Not that I ever see any snow where I am at …. 🙂

        • DK

          The Fed buying Treasuries back feeds money into the economy by allowing Uncle Sam to pay for entitlements and buy domestically made military equipment with funds that did not previously exist. QE is not “borrowing” but rather creating new additional money.

          The reality is that the economy has collapsed faster and deeper than the influx of currency could compensate. Money velocity is low but those funds from the above are getting into the system. Each additional increase in it’s mass requires less and less velocity to fuel inflation.

          • K2: QE 3 and now 4 represent the purchase (in the main) of bad assets from the banks. Watch foreclosures pick up again and be resolved at a faster rate. This is where most of the new money goes.

            While the purchase of treasuries by the FED represent the funding of government to pay for its budgeted costs, inflation is too many dollars in the hands of consumers chasing too few goods and services.

            The money must reach consumers and represent excessive disposable income. Welfare and SSI for example do not do not qualify as excessive disposable income, as these are budgeted funds for marginal people making essential purchases.

            Nice try buddy! 🙂

            • DK

              Sorry I disagree.

              One does not need excessive individual income to raise the price of goods through inflation. That “excessive” may be collective. Millions unemployed not increasing productivity purchasing goods is still “too many dollars chasing too few goods”. What about the defense budget funded for practical purposes through The Fed buying Treasuries? It’s still money from no where getting into the system in increasing abundance.

              Your also forgetting the bailed out financial institutions can post Glass Steagall buy equities with their money. Hell they not only use theirs but steal depositors accounts too for which no criminal charges have been filed. Uncle Sam bails them out and they in turn pump up the Stock Market. Sooner or later rising investments of that stock (maybe not in their hands) is sold and into the system it goes. The “Market” did a huge recovery post QEs. Think those laid off workers maxed out their 401Ks & IRAs? Quite the contrary. It’s a lot of bail out money complements of the Federal Reserve injected into the stock market.

              • K2: You shot yourself in the foot when you said: “millions unemployed”. That was my point exactly. Those folks do not have any disposable income for conspicuous consumption.

                As for the people still working, they are paying down excess debt and saving what they can. Bottom line?

                No demand, no inflation. Gas now $3.19 a gallon, back up the truck!!! (Literally.)

                • DK

                  Those millions are not productive yet they purchase. As I said “collective”.

                  Where is the money coming from that raised the DOW from 6000 to 13000? The Investment Banks are pumping the market and that bleeds off into society. That is serious money and a lot of it is coming from The Federal Reserve to the Investment Banks as bailouts and is being used to purchase equities. For those unaware equities are stocks. OBTW Ben B won’t even tell Congress where the cash went or how much.

                  No demand no inflation? Inflation used to be velocity driven prior to the advent of QE and it was fought with increasing interest rates slowing the velocity of money. The more money out there the less velocity required. Did the Weimar Republic have high demand? Nope they had lower than normal demand but too much money relative to the supply of goods.

                  You been grocery shopping? Corn, Soy Beans and Sugar increased 150% to 200% in the last four years with peanut prices up roughly 100% in the same time frame. Buy a jar or Jiff or Skippy. This was not driven by the weather of late. The rise has been steady. Has the population increased a like amount? Nope. According to you no demand no inflation. Well there is most certainly inflation. The QE money is making into the system.

                  Oil is at 85 a BBL. Call that cheap with world demand dropping? US demand is down 3 million BBls / Day pre oil shale. The world economy is collapsing yet prices are propped up.

                  Da man be asking where da bucks comin from?

                  There are no dots to connect. It’s a painting. Ray Charles can see it.

                  1. Unemployment is increasing. Individual demand decays yet prices rise.
                  2. Inflation is above 10% if food was included in the CPI calculation as it once was.
                  3. The investment banks are given tremendous amounts of money in QE bailouts
                  4. The investment banks legally invest in the stock market post Glass Steagall.
                  5. The stock market rises over 100% in 5 years.
                  6. Profits taken get into society.

                • K2: Is this your argument for hyperinflation? I don’t disagree that there is inflation, but even double digit inflation is not hyperinflation.

                  The higher cost of food is the result of the Chinese with more disposable income now, and all commodities, like gold, are priced in world market prices; so the Chinese can afford more chicken and beef: which is why there are 500 KFC restaurants in China, and growing.

                  The average Chinese has been spending 50% of their disposable income for food. As their wages rise and the purchasing power of their currency increases, they will buy more corn and soybeans for their herds, more sugar and chocolate, and more winter fruits and vegetables from South America.

                  Peanuts up? Buy almonds or walnuts, they are better for you anyway. The Principle of Substitution always applies. Grow your own of what you can. If everyone did this, commercial farmers would plant more of what WE can’t, increasing supply and lowering prices.

                  Adapt or die! 🙂

                • DK

                  QE money getting into society via Commercial Banks / Investment firms. That rise in grain prices coincides with the influx of increased money via bailout and QE globally.

                  Hyper inflation will only occur if the USD looses reserve currency status. Impossible? The US is not overthrowing nations that threaten to take another means of payment for their oil if that possibility did not exist. The more they devalue the USD the less desirable it becomes. Yes the worst case is a possibility and maybe a probability.

                  High inflation coming is a given. It may not go hyper but a solid 20% is very probable. Banks and nations are not buying gold for no reason.

                • Yes K2 the Central Bankers and nations low on gold reserves are buying gold to establish a new standard, eventually; but not yet.

                  Gold will be the standard behind a new basket of fiat. That’s why I encourage everyone to invest in gold.

                  It’s still many years away and it doesn’t have to happen by hyperinflation. It can happen under any circumstances; as long as all major parties agree to the arrangement.

                  The current arrangement was approved by all voting members of the IMF. Whether they liked it or not. 🙂

                  There is no free lunch in “Free Trade”. China will have to take a big hit on its dollar reserves at that time. A fair trade given the wealth that WE have given them when they were starving.

      14. i think people are missing the point by trying to blame politicians for the economic conditions and collapse. Yes, overtime they are to blame for the accumulation of massive debt and the corporate influence allowing jobs to be shipped over seas.

        However, the coming collapse is directly relating to constraining energy supplies. Our current insane growth dependent way of life requires abundant cheap energy. Without it, growth is not possible.

        It’s easier to call Obama a commie and think this is ‘someones’ fault. The reality is it is all of our faults for thinking growth would last forever as well as the energy supplies it depends on.

        • They have caused this economic condition Timothy. Its because they set regulation and obama is bad with this. If they just dropped tax rates business would boom so this is absolutly connected with Obama and the dems. regulations and law after law after law and welfare is the reason we are in this way. if we did not pay any welfare we would not have so many deadbeats and problems. It all has to do with them TIM. I don’t know how old your are or not seeing your side of it but I can’t agree with you at all on this TIM.

          • You don’t need to agree with me. I know what I am saying. I have followed the energy situation for some time. Without cheap, easy oil, our economy cannot grow. It doesn’t matter what policy is in place. You cannot create energy through policy, you can only use it faster or slower but in the end it only gets more scarce and expensive.

            • It doesn’t help when you limit offshore drilling or tax the crap out of coal plants.

              • Or keep peddling lollipop rainbow dreams about the wonders of ethanol and windfarms

                • Of course our economy will not grow without cheap energy and oil that is correct! But what I was saying is these bastards like obama regulate it and put taxes on it and get involved. If we drilled here and had all special interest groups out of the way and ALL government out of it and energy companies were not taxed or exempt for making a product here gas would be a dollar and we would boom! Its GOvernment and democrats TIM!

          • If you haven’t yet seen it, I recommend you watch the documentary ‘Collapse’ featuring Michael Ruppert. It is on Netflix.

            • Try viewing Chris Martenson on exponential growth.
              It goes over some of the reasons why we can’t continue to always grow.
              Have a wonderful day.
              stu out

          • Timothy has a good point. Our economy really is dependent on cheap energy. But with the new fracking technology we are on the verge of having that again, and that will be worldwide. There’s pretty good evidence that the USA can become a net exporter of energy in ten years, if we don’t collapse first.

            Clint is also right in saying that the politicians tilled, seeded, and watered the bed for the current financial crisis, by buying votes with Free Shit For The Masses. That and handing the oversight of the banking industry to the Big Money Mafia. I’m too depressed at this point to elaborate…..

        • GTFOOH

          It’s the trade agreements that eviscerated US Industry that was hid behind a bullshit “service economy” fueled by increasing debt both public and private. That “service economy” kept Americans employed domestically while industry fled globally. In the end the debt could not be serviced and the crash came. The body politic was distracted long enough for the great flight of manufacturing to be accomplished.

        • Timothy: The politicians are at fault for allowing themselves to be bought by special interests rather than exercising their fiduciary duty to US and the US Constitution.

          These MF’s need to accept responsibility for their crimes and commit suicide; or be indicted by the American People and given the sentence that TRAITORS deserve.

          Energy sources in the USA are virtually UNLIMITED and they lie UNTAPPED!!! WE The People need to dig a mass grave in Arlington …. no, thats too good for them.

          Better that WE just dump the bodies at sea where NYC dumps its garbage. Engage.

          • Or put them to work serving meals and cleaning the porta johns for the workers who will drill that oil and mine that coal

            • ROFLMAO !

          • I’m sorry, but you are severely misinformed about energy supplies.

            • No Tim, I am FULLY informed about energy if you care to debate the topic. You are not.

              WE have 100 years of natural gas. 300 years of coal. About 150 years of oil, or more, at current rates of consumption and with current discoveries. This does not include offshore continental shelf reserves that are undiscovered.

              Then there is UNLIMITED tidal energy that is untapped. With current solar technology, a solar farm in the Southwest 50 miles square could supply all of the annual energy requirements for the USA.

              Catch up, Tim. 🙂

              • Did I mention wind energy? LMAO!

                • Sorry Durango, I too am a petroleum geologist with a PhD from Stanford. The continental US does not have those kind of reserves. Sounds like you’ve seen too many commercials by oil companies.

              • in my state they said we had a hundred years of fracked gas
                and that there would be bazillions of jobs created

                then before you know it
                it was down to 40 years
                and thousands of jobs

                now its down to about 5 years give or take
                and Goober at the filling station might keep his job
                IF he takes a big pay cut !!!

              • Durango kidd, I totally agree with you. I’m originally from Midland, Tx, my dad owned his own bottomhole business, testing the fluid & pressure levels on wells. Worked on oil and natural gas wells for 35 years. My brother is still in the business.

                I’ve known oil field guys my whole life and they just laugh at the thought of “we’re running out of oil”. There’s lots of oil, quite a few wells are capped for future use.

                They just want everyone to believe we are running out of energy and even engineering ways to shut it down….sand lizards anyone…hell we used to use those things for target pratice…they’re everywhere.

                They have an agenda and energy independence doesn’t play into their NWO. ….just saying.

              • Sorry Kid. I’m a geologist and was a Petroleum Engineer for 25 years, We do not have that kind of reserves. I own 40% of a few oil wells and they make, total about 1 BPD. If I could even get a smell of those kinds of reserves I’d fill them with concrete and GO for it.

                • @ Paranoid. I have been trying to calculate for years now at which year did the world hit peak oil. OPEC grossly exaggerates their reserves because it gives each country more clout in overall decision making. OPEC countries use to give more correct estimates, and then after the mid 1980’s each country seemed to be pegged at the same reserve totals each year. Hubbert, which got it right within 6-7 months for U.S. peak oil back in 1970, said that there was ONLY about 2 trillion barrels of recoverable oil in the world. If this is correct then peak oil would have been reached back around 2004-05.

                  There is plenty of tar sand and tar rocks in the U.S. and Canada, but it is very expensive and difficult to refine this fuel frozen in rock. It takes a lot of water and the net energy gained is tiny after the final refined products reaches the consumer. The skewed numbers for oil reserves for North America takes this difficult to obtain, low energy ratio debris as recoverable petroleum. The country is not out of oil, but like most OPEC countries the totals are hopelessly slanted to the side of error.

                  I think there are less than 10 countries in the world that have not reached peak oil, and most of them are in the Caspian Sea region where Russia will defend with its nuclear arsenal before allowing the west to encircle it any further. I say if there is so much oil in Canada and the U.S., then why is the U.S. over in the areas, other than strategic geographical points, that are the last oil rich areas in the world.

                  What do you think about this, and what do you think about the peak oil issue? Has the world reached this plateau? How many trillions of barrels of oil are actually recoverable, not counting sand and rock tars?

                • BI…I do not believe in peak oil, so to speak. However, I agree with you, Timothy and Paranoid . EROEI is the drag on world economies. MMT depends on infinite growth and CHEAP oil. While there may be plenty of oil in the ground, it is not all light sweet crude. Nothing matches the BTUs of light sweet crude. There will always be oil to extract. When the price gets too high to extract it we see what happens to Western economies.

                • Paranoid and Dr Oil: Gentlemen while I respect your education and professional experience I must disagree with you as the published data shows otherwise.

                  You know how to find it so dig in. There are many links for those interested at SHTF Energy to do their own research.

                  Dr Oil: Since you are a Stanford Phd you should know that the Monterrey Shale alone (that’s in your neck of the woods) has 70 years of energy for the USA at current rates of consumption.

                  That does not include the Green River Basin, The Eagle Ford Shale, or the Bakken to name a couple. We will have to respectfully disagree.

                  You two, more than any other persons here should be thinking energy rather than oil and gas. Why not?

                • Kid; we must agree to disagree, I know a lot about what you say, got a chunk of the Mahogany ledge oil shale in my cabinet. Live in Wyo, been to Green River many times. All I can say is three thing: 1 If you were right I’d be so rich I’d buy my own country. 2 The US would have left the Mid East to rot 50 years ago. 3. Don’t bet your life on lots of oil, or gas, at any price normal people can pay

                • Paranoid: The reason that the US has not “left the Mideast to rot 50 years ago” is because the Dual Citizens and the NWO have wanted US in the Mideast to buffer aggression against Israel, AND to use the easiest, most available, “lightest”, and least costly to extract oil FIRST.

                  So it was primarily a political decision influenced by the Israeli Lobby and the Dual Citizens who have infiltrated the Eastern Establishment and the American Security, Intelligence, and Defense apparatus that pushed OUR presence in the Middle East.

                  Technology has now changed everything, including how WE discover and extract oil & gas. WE have gotten much better at it and OUR tools are much more sophisticated so WE are finding O&G in places WE never expected, and at depths WE could not previously fathom. (Pun intended).

                  As you should know. 🙂

                • Hi Paranoid

                  It is difficult to explain EROEI and the difficulties of extraction in environments that require a huge investment in both money and environmental safeguards. None of the reserves that are advertised as “hundreds of years” and lead people to believe that we are “awash in oil” are financially viable until we get into the hundred dollar/barrel range or higher. Unfortunately, that seems to be the price that crushes out economy.


              • DK.
                What you wrote includes an assumption that energy consumption is linear.

                It is my impression that global energy use is close to logarithmic as countries around the world increase their energy consumption. This changes the picture considerably.

                • Merree: Yes, you are correct, the numbers I stated were linear based upon present consumption in the USA. However, gasoline consumption is now declining in the USA.

                  New auto consumption efficiencies beginning in earnest in 2014 as hybrid technology is adopted across the board to all makes and models will also cut the rate of gasoline dramatically.

                  150 years is a long time and there will be new technologies for propulsion, whether you are talking about cars that run on air or co2 or just electricity with better batteries, recharged every day at home in your garage.

                  Yes, global rates of oil consumption are not linear. But globally, there are huge reserves in Africa, all over the continent. Madagascar, Sudan, Somalia, and Mosambique just a couple of new discoveries.

                  The world is awash in oil. But no one should think oil and gas. Everyone should think “energy”. The USA has unlimited, untapped tidal power that is not reliant upon solar or wind and that technology is not new. Only the application of that technology is new.

                  The bottom line is that the USA HAS unlimited sources of energy.

      15. No problem. We have a “knowledge based economy.” We don’t need to ship stuff. We all need to just think more. O.k., everybody at once……..

        • Thinking now… I don’t think it is working. 🙁

          • You’ve gotta hold your mouth right.

        • @Unreconstructed Southron
          now thats some funny shit, big thumbs up I needed a laugh

          @ Timothy yes Ive seen “Collapse” and its a great movie, try the movie “Thrive” and you will see just how much deeper the rabbit hole goes.

          • We better all laugh now as much as we can. There won’t be much time for it soon.

        • DK is right that USA (or the remnants of it) will use natural resources to dig ourselves out of the coming hole, just like Russia did. The environmental nuts will be told to sit down and shut up.

          You mean we can’t all make a living cutting each other’s hair and managing each other’s 401(k)? We actually need something to sell?

          • Bob

            Unfortunately there is a lot of debate regarding the long term productivity of the fracking NG wells.

            Power Magazine has a big spread about it. There is cause for concern.

      16. But it’s such a lovely recipe they’re cooking. Just bring it to a slow boil… I really am amazed at their ability to keep delaying the inevitable… to keep kicking the can down the road.
        On another note, the Salvation Army is reporting record need for their services. That would be page one in all the papers. But of course the liberal media is in the tank for our Communist-in-Chief.


      17. you hit the nail on the head Timothy

        “However, the coming collapse is directly relating to constraining energy supplies. Our current insane growth dependent way of life requires abundant cheap energy. Without it, growth is not possible.”

        our “way of life ” is only possible because of cheap energy
        and those days are over
        the contraction has begun
        it’s nowhere near over
        and its gonna be BRUTAL

        remember the movie THRE DAYS OF THE CONDOR ?

        the money quotes start at about one minute

        its ALL about oil
        cheap oil

        the .gov has known for decades that this day would come

        in the years to come a lot of America’s young are gonna be fighting and dying to keep the oil flowing

        but it won’t officially be about oil
        the propaganda will be about “freedom” and weapons of mass destruction
        and establishing “democracy”

        after all
        what parent would send their child to fight and die for oil ???

        • I Pledge Allegiance, to the Flag, of the…….. at 50 yo I’m starting to wonder WTF?.

          Has it just been a damn charade? Was I/ am I, a usefull patiotic idiot?

          I’m torked up enough at times, I pray for civil war. It wasn’t like this growing up. I, at times, hate the other side with a passion. And I’m sure the feeling is mutual. So let’s get it on. WTF?

          Should I care if the country goes in the toilet? Who else does. No respect for “American Culture”. Not required to learn English. Marriage is a union between whatever, who cares. 99, 74, 58 weeks of unemployment??
          Food stamps used to be an embaressment, now you stupid if you don’t get yours. Municipal employees “retiring” at 56 with $96,000.00 a year pension. huh?

          Kids getting out of college, 75, 100 thousand in debt, can’t get a job?? People working til 70.

          Can’t we just have one place on the entire planet, where you reap what you sow?? Just one. winners and losers. That’s all we want, winners win, losers loose.

          Rambling on….can’t take the slow boil.

        • @ Satori,

          I believe that your ana;ysis is qualifiably. “Game, Set and Match”. Many Thanks.

        • ~~~the .gov has known for decades that this day would come~~~
          And what was the govt spending taxes on?
          DEA, CIA, FBI, wars and more wars..Food admin’s ridiculous regulations, war on drugs, war on poverty, education programs that didn’t work–no child left behind—NASA, instead of investing on alternative energy sources..can you say Tesla???

      18. I read this site for the sometimes practical information. Is it possible to be a prepper and not a code word reliant racist? I am the first without the second premise. How about you?

        • Other than the handful of virulent anti-Semites, do you see any racism here? I don’t.

      19. Standstill? That would be good news. Looks more like free fall to me. Maybe we are treading air kinda like coyote in the old roadrunner cartoons. Gravity has a way of taking over whether you like it or not and we are already over the cliff.

      20. the stark reality is that the global economy is at a standstill, and has been since before the crash of 2008.

        I guess Obama is not the sole cause ofthe economic woes we are experiencing, despite claims to the contrary.

        • You’re finally right about something: It isn’t solely his fault; it’s also the fault of the morons who voted for him.

          • for crying out loud people


            and ya can’t just chew it and spit it out


            ALL OF IT

            BITER AS IT MAY BE

            when did TSHTF ???

            remember Sept/Oct 2008 ????

            the first really big sign that even someone who was blind in one eye and couldn’t see out of the other could recognize
            was when the housing crisis hit

            and remember those days when we were losing 750,000 jobs a MONTH
            remember those days ???

            I wish to hell it was just Obama
            then there would be some hope

            but this crisis has been brewing for decades
            the middle class has been losing ground for decades now
            this just didn’t start when Obama was elected

            politicians Republicans or Democrats are nothing more than mere lackeys for those really pulling the strings

            remember NAFTA ???
            that was a little warning
            and that was quite some time ago
            Perot warned us then of what was to come

            • Satori, I have tried to get people to get out of this ‘Us vs Them’ mentality but they are just too conditioned by the false left/right dichotomy.

              It is much easier to have someone to blame as if it is just a matter of bad policy rather than something we cannot control and just have to accept (energy depletion).

              • we’ve all been trained and manipulated quite effectively by the propagandists

                breaking out of the left/right thing is incredibly hard to do
                but it is possible

                it is one of the things that those who are really running things fear

                as I have said before

                and sheep have but one purpose
                and that is to be led to the slaughter

                • A Deprogrammed American is a Dangerous American.

              • Tim I understand what you are saying but Obama and the dems have done more damage to this economy than the GOP but yes both sides have played us. Most of us understand this and we are not conditioned to take one side. It’s Obama and the dems are taking us down more quickly. At least we are talking on here respectfully to each other

            • Bingo Satori! Republicans and the Democrats same O same O. Anybody else noticed how the price of gas has dropped since the elections. I am no fan of Obama but is it possible that fuel was kept artificaly high to put Obama in a bad light what with the keystone pipeline issue. I am no rocket scientist but it looks like no matter who is in office or has the majority in the Congress or Senate they all play the same games and we the people once again are the ones who pay for it.

              Remember when Clinton wanted to give a Chinese company the sole management of the largest port on the west coast? Why would our President do that? Now look at the Chinese. Holding 3 trillion of our debt that is secured by derivatives (code name for foreclosed on homes) and now it comes out that the Chinese are through investment companies are buying 20% of all the homes going for sale on the court house steps. And just for your FYI there are at least 10 homes being sold on the court houise steps compared to every 1 home being sold by real eastate agents. But the ones being sold by RE agents are the home sales reported by the press.

              Once again I scream BULLSH*T!

              Oh yeah while I am at it. Some one explain this to me. There are about 350 million people in the U.S. The average family last time I heard was 3.5 people. How is it that HUD reports that 20 million homes are vacant in the U.S. and over 1 million home owners are at least 90 days past due. 120 millions homes in trouble and an average of 3.5 people per family and a population of 350 million people???? WTF? The math doesn’t add up. Either that or nobody is paying thier house payments.

              I can’t be the only person who can do simple math. So what is the game being played on us?

              • Not to be a smart ass but 20+1=21, not 120.

                • So I mispoke. Or mispelled. What ever, I was on a rant. 🙂 It was supposed to be 100 million.

            • Hey, genius, here’s a lesson in logic. Saying people who voted for Obama (i.e. JoeInN[obody]C[ares] are morons does not imply that people who voted for Romney aren’t morons.

              Next time you ought to find out who’s in the choir before you start preachin’ to it (which should be pretty easy from my hundreds of earlier posts.)

              I’ve been preachin’ against the left-right paradigm and the “dime’s difference” since before you had a pair of dimes.

              But none of that changes the fact that ANYbody who voted for Barry Soetoro (yes, especially you Joe) is a moron.

        • Obama did not cause it. Bush either. This globalist plan was the agenda of the people in control. Bush, Clinton, Bush and Obama are mere employees of them. They don’t make the calls, they sell the ideas and concepts and MIGHT be allowed to tweak just a little little bit of the plan from time to time to fit a pet political cause.

          The differences between Obama and Romney were so little and reflect that “just a little” tweak.

        • @JoeinNC
          No, he’s not the sole cause; he’s just the sick fuck who raped the woman after the other guy killed her.

          The TelePrompter in Chief has made things worse. A LOT worse. After all the posturing, all the big speeches, he’s done jack shit to make this country better off. You wanna keep excusing him by bringing up Bush, then you’re a fucking moron

          • Son of sam is right on this. He has made it much much worse. Jobs are gone by policies

        • Yes, if you back out the false “growth” due to the massive borrowing and the weakening of fiat currencies, there hasn’t been any growth in the global economy since the 1980s.

      21. If the economy is “recovering” why do we need to raise the debt ceiling?
        How come there are more people then ever getting food stamps (ebt cards)?
        If unemployment is dropping then how come there isn’t more tax revenue from all those jobs that have been created?
        Why are major corporations and big banks laying off thousands?
        Am I an idiot, ’cause I just don’t see how it’s getting better?
        Still got a few more things I’d like to have in my preps, hope it holds off for at least three to six months.

        • While it is highly likely that there could be an event or series of events that could cause a fast collapse, it is more likely that the situation will continue as it is on a long, slow downward trend.

          As more countries move from the dollar as the reserve currency and energy costs increase, economic depression will continue.

          • I believe the words were “controlled collapse” spoken by quite a character… did dear george soros drop a few markers or was it just crazy talk.
            I ponder this often and wonder.

            p.s. another excellent article, Mac. I think we forget our manners and say thanks to you.

            BTW – Hey gang! don’t be stingy and forget to support the sponsors that help keep this site up and running and FREE. Do your window shopping, that part is free. Remember – all things ain’t necessarily free, even it they appear to be when someone just went out to offer a place of excellent information and for like-minded folks to gather…just go a’wandering when you have time 😉

            >p.s. Sorry, Mac if I went off in left field. I seriously appreciate being able to open the computer, click on your site and bond with this clan. Cheer to you and yours every chance you get.

        • Does anyone else have a time line to get their stuff togther. We badly need just 6-7 months longer for my little group before everyone is hunkered down in place and secure. Y’all know my sis just had a baby. Our plans include keeping the children & elderly in the group safe. I’m not the lone wolf type.

          I’m really worried we don’t have that much longer, yet can’t progress any faster.

          Gerald Celente predicted a couple of years ago that staple foods would be Xmas gifts in 2012. I’m hoping with all I have that his timing is just one year off, due to all the political smoke and mirrors and shenigans that have gone on this year.

          My current best hope prediction is that deep mid-winter 2013 is when the shtf andthe financial system will collapse. I think it’ll be mid-winter simply because tptb will be able to keep major civil unrest to a minimum at this time. Traditionally mid-summer is the riot season. I’m just hopng that blind optimism is not going to be my downfall.

          • Relax; this years crop is in. Prices are going up but not real shortage prices, this crop year. Oil stocks are OK. US oil price is about $30 bbl below Europe. Will help our jobs, Recognize we can have a fools panic any day ,but I see no reason for any trouble before summer. Truthfully I think it’s gong to go on for up to 3-5 Years. Watch interest rates inflation , Gold ,corn ,wheat, and oil. as long as they stay reasonable you have time

      22. spot on Timothy

        a black swan event could plunge us off the cliff
        that’s a possibility

        what is a CERTAINTY is that the slow collapse will continue

        for anyone who hasn’t already done so

        watch Mike Ruppert’s COLLAPSE
        and read Kunstlers THE LONG EMERGENCY

        plenty of people saw this coming

        • I can’t recommend “The Long Emergency” enough. It really put a lot into perspective.

      23. From a small business point of view I can say my business has collapsed since August. Through out the recession we have been able to produce enough to stay almost even, with the last 3 months so low we are going to take a hit by February.

        4 years ago we had 9 agencies on our road, today there are 3 left. I’ve talked to all 3 owners and they have experienced the same crash in new business production. We have also at the same time seen many customers being canceled for nonpayment. Most of these people didn’t go find cheaper car insurance, but have lost there cars or simply can not afford any insurance. Quite literally these folks are making the choices of feeding the baby or pay the car insurance.

        The economy is dead, period!! If my business is typical of small business, things are about to get a whole lot worse quickly.

      24. The one key word in this whole article is manipulation. These idiot newscasters talk about the stock market being at near record highs, not in comparison to true money, precious metals. They talk about job stimulates that cost $1 million per job created. This is absurd, at maybe $50,000 per job created this would make excellent sense, but $1 million????? Then the TRUE economic numbers as in unemployment is never counted. 7.7% is ridiculous to believe.

        Here is a more accurate way of calculating employment. Count the total number of hours worked that people were paid for, then divide it by 36 or 40, and this is how many full-time jobs there are on the average. Then take that number and factor it into various ages groups, like 16-55, 18-65, 21-62, whatever. this will give you a really good idea how many are actually employed in the United States. Counting someone that works 20 hours a week is not a full time job and should be counted as part time or 1/2 employed. It would be disgusting to figure out these true numbers.

        There is a lot more to this fiscal cliff that people realize and why so much both sides are fighting for their positions. If you look at the reason why republicans find so hard for no rise in upper tax rates, it is not that some business or wealthy person can’t withstand a 4.6% rise back to pre bush tax rates. It is the ONLY bargining point they have so other destructive to business taxes aren’t allow to kick in, along with a runaway debt that let’s BO win. Yes, an exponential debt means that the PLAN is going just as planned.

        What I see, and if someone like Durango Kidd with much more expertise on money matters than me please chime in if they disagree. BO wants the debt to be set to infinity, no debt limit so the U.S. can one day become Germany 1920’s, Zimbabwe, or Yugoslavia. Wanna know why? When you collapse the monetary system you have no wealth, no value to anything, even Bill Gates type money is devalued to nothing. Now why would BO want to do this? Isn’t communism where everyone in society is suppose to be equal, except for the elitist leaders? Inequality is now defined by someone’s worth or lack of it in money. If money is basically less than toilet paper, then everyone becomes in the same sinking ship totally dependent on the state for all their needs. And everyone can walk around like good little androids and be ordered to do anything and everything like some insect colony. “Nice thought” isn’t it?

        • well said, good way to see it. I still think when this breaks down riots will be fires out of control. and once a building starts it starts others on too and its a chain reaction and firefighters will be too busy to calm all the whole country. hell they cant even take care of one state will katrina, whats going to happen when the whole country goes wild. Get the picture.

        • Taxes to the MMT economists and the corp government are simply a way to force the use of fiat currency. They don’t “need” them to function. As you can see, the Fed is, and will continue to monetize the debt with their 1 trillion a year “asset and bond purchases”. The fiscal cliff is just a dog and pony show for the masses.If you were allowed to pay your taxes with any other currency (say gold or silver) people would stop using FRNs and the system would collapse. This is worldwide with the SWIFT system and the FRN as reserve currency. All countries are forced to use the “dollar” or be taken down by force. The banking system runs the world through USA military at the point of a gun. That is why there is never any talk of cuts to the military.You can read chapter 10 of G.Edward Griffin’s “The Creature From Jekyll Island” called the Mandrake Mechanism and it will tell you why the debt will never be paid.

      25. I would suggest that all who are awake and prepping to get their money out of the bank. FDIC is broke and will not insure your deposits as of 1/1/2013. Even if they did, you’re only insured $.10C for every $660 you have in the bank. Just remember the judge’s ruling few months ago that a bank has the right to confiscate your savings, and the first thing the goberment will lay its hands on is your IRA and 401K, then your regular accounts.

        In other words, when things go belly up as they are now, and it is almost that period, bye-bye savings and hello bank holidays.

      26. Hey not to nitpick here but I clicked that last link.


        It was supposed to collapse before Jan 1 2012, right?



        Ever consider the idea that just maybe what will actually happen is that, much like unemployment insurance, there will just be a period of massive demand destruction… by means of… well. Yeah. The lack of efficent exchange of O2 for CO2 for those on the lower economic rungs.

        But HEY! After that everything will be fine!

        Or something…

      27. I think of it as the “Obama Depression”

      28. Guess what? That British citizen piers morgan is once again attacking gun rights tonight. Imagine this, someone that is a native of another country attacking a country and their people’s basic rights under the constitution. You should see the attacks on the AR 15’s that this english bum is going after a gun rights advocate. The person Alan Gottlieb was trying to support the need of an AR 15 like in the riots and the hurricane disasters, and piers attacked him as this being stupid, “something that happened 20 years ago” piers said.

        Someone comes to this country and tries to shovel their country’s society norms down everyone’s throat here. Mr. Gottlieb says you have the right to be armed, gun bans don’t work, criminals don’t obey the law, that is why they call them criminals. He always said you don’t attack the 99.9% of the people that want to own guns, you stop the mentally deranged from getting the firearms. You should see how upset piers made Alan Gottlieb. The rerun of this comes on at 12 midnight eastern time. A foreigner telling the United States citizens they should get rid of ALL their guns, this is what this blimly wants as this is exactly what he said the other night, get rid of ALL the 300 million guns in the country.

        • Im glad you pointed that out. We are getting attacked by gays, shemales and now brits which I like but he needs to shut his fucking mouth. remember 10 years ago when the gay thing really started making the news, Now gays are going to run for congress and if they don’t get votes they are going to yell out gay suppression and will sue. “I didn’t get the job since I was gay. it’s out of control. It could of not been a gay issue any issue but you know what Im saying. Its all these special people that want to be treated special and known. hey gays or whoever shut the fuck up or whatever color you are. you are people we are people. There is no difference. Stop using a god damn crutch to seek attention idiots.

          • I’m not sure Piers Morgan is employable here in the UK any longer tbh. He’s a smarmy barsteward who has been implicated in several scandals that have annoyed the public.

            There is an “off” button on your TV. Enough people use it when he pollutes your screen, ratings dive and he’ll have to go someplace else.

      29. It would be funny to hand the Limey an AR with the bolt carrier/bolt back, an empty magazine, ammo and say, “here, let me see you load it, fire it and hit that trashcan over there”.

        Imagine a virtual entire civilian population devoid of the most basic firearms knowledge? When I meet a grown male that tells me they never fired a gun I say, “Want a Molson”? At least some Canadians MIGHT have seen a gun not the British.

        • @ K2

          Actually Kevin, you’re ‘WRONG’. My English uncle & cousin visited on holiday back in August. They stayed 2-weeks.
          Uncle is 68 cousin 40. While here, they burned up over +600rds of 12 ga #7 1/2 shot shooting skeet, over 1000rds of .223, +500rds of 7.62×39, +400rds of .308, +400rds of .357 & 9mm & +250rds of .45ACP…& cases of clays & boxes of assorted paper targets.
          Plus I taught them the basics of reloading accurate ammo as well as casting your own precious metal.

          I sent them home to the UK…very well trained!
          They both reveled in the experience!

          Yeah, it was my ammo. But I typically burn thru +7k to +10k rounds a year myself. I am fortunate to possess enough land to have my own rifle, pistol & skeet range, out here in the boonies.

          • Those two Brit relatives of yours are as common in the UK as lottery winners that got hit by lightening and survived.

            Damn few Brits have ever held a gun let alone fired one. Some Canadians have but few. I don’t personally know of one American man that hasn’t. Then again it’s the circles your in. Once out of a few major cities in the US you have to search for a male that hasn’t. The further south you go the more unlucky you will get.

            I read that Eric Clapton is now a US citizen and a shooter.

            • @ K2

              Actually Kevin, back in the mid-seventies my uncle owned a farm in Oxford-shire, at the time he possessed a .410 single-shot & a .22 bolt-gun.
              He ended up giving the .22 to his brother, who lost it during the commie-brit-govt gun ban back in the 1990’s.

              His .410 was also confiscated.

              While here, he did inform me that there is a brisk black-market for firearms where pistols, long guns & ammo are available if you know the right people!

              • Antonio,evening.

                I too used a .22 bolt action from age 11 until it was stolen when I moved to a different county. Just for reference I was licencesd in Devon but not allowed where I am now.

                Wish I knew the people your uncle does lol

                Take care

                • Why does iPad like Antonio not Anton ?

                • @ Burt-baby

                  Ah lass, don’t worry about it. I’ve been call much worse.
                  Best of luck & a very Merry Christmas to you & yours!

              • Anton Hackl

                I’ll never say none because a few were exposed to guns prior to the UK virtually banning them. I think the UK pistol team trains in France.

                The damn few that do know are not increasing in number.

                You treated your family right.

      30. Thanks to all who respond to the various articles. I find it very interesting and concerning what is happening in the U.S. My daughter and husband live in the U.S. and I have grave concerns. Several points 1. Much has been done in the free trade arena. I’m more for fair trade. If I import $100 from you, you have to import $100 from me. 2. Why does the US feel it has to be the policeman of the world? Why not cut the military budget by 50% and use half of the savings to pay down the national debt and the other half of savings to improve schools, sewers, road etc.

        • hp

          “Why does the US feel it has to be the policeman of the world?”

          The US needs to maintain the USD as the worlds reserve currency and continually increase it’s demand by increasing foreign manufacturing. It also uses the military to make sure nations don’t stray (especially oil producers) and accept other sources of payment. This is why nations like to get, “The Bomb” so they are capable of telling the US to pound sand if bullied. “Invade me and I got a big land mine for you and your offshore fleet”.

          I don’t like the system that’s been created but it is what it is.

        • (Saracasm)
          What? Cut the military budget? What country are you from? Don’t you know we are the only thing standing in the way of your country being over run by hooligans and what not? Don’t you understand that a lot of important people in this country manafacture and sell the ammo and various war devices?

          Not saracastic:
          The truth of the matter is that countless people working under defense contracts would be laid off. Add that to bringing home troops from all over the world and putting them back nto the job market and unemployment even by using the crazy counting methods we are using, unemployment would be at 50%.

          (Saracasm again)
          Do you really believe that by bringing home troops from hot spots like Japan, Germany, et cetra and other industrial giants that your world would be as safe as it is today? You need to wake up and realize the sacrafices we make as the world police. In fact I think that the UN should tax every human being on earth $5.00 per year for the work we do.

          Just one, rather smart ass, mans opinion.

        • The scary thing is that we could cut the entire military budget and would still be running a deficit. We would still be going further in debt.

          There is no amount of cutting or taxing that could get us to a point where we even run with a balanced budget. The only thing that could possibly turn this country around is to become extremely business friendly so that people get back to work, make more, spend more, pay more taxes, use less welfare…but there isn’t a politician in charge now that is pro business that would have the support to make it happen.

          If we really wanted to get back to even we would cut most taxes for everyone across the board. Lower the corporate taxes so that it is easy to run a business and hire people.

          Won’t happen with over 50% of America sucking at the government teet.

          • Even if there was someone who had any desire to really make a difference as a politician they could never get elected. That’s why we’re on a one way road. Do not back up, severe tire damage.

      31. as if they haven’t been doing this already

        “The newest version of the National Defense Authorization Act (NDAA) includes an amendment that would legalize the use of propaganda on the American public, reports Michael Hastings of BuzzFeed.”

        • @ Satori,

          Not good, if so THAT would be a ‘turning point’ in my thinking. Totalitarianism cannot survive without coercive use of the media….modern Syria being just one example amongst many….not good at all. 🙁

        • Do you mean they just had to legalize politicians to lie? Mind boggling, they been doing it here for years? I knew Canada was behind, but this far?

      32. Forced debt creation will take our country down by 2016, mark my words.

        • I hope we have even that much time


        Is it time to “Hang” … the corrupt criminal corrupt NWO UN ZOG FEDGOV STATEGOV politicians bankers and their gestapo thugs yet ???


        sigh … ;0(

        Phuck it … I’m goin’ back to bed .


        ~N.O. ;0P

        • nina, sheeple, zionists and baby boomers just cant get enough of this stuff. They thrive on it. I am not certain it will ever change. Only thing left is for us to get physical with these characters. They do not respond to anything else. and let this be a warning to all sheeple, zionists and baby boomers. If you get in my wheel house ( within 50 feet of me) I can not guarantee that my arms will not accidentily hit you. Just fair to warn i think.

        • Got Baby Food ?

          Something Preppers (even single prepper dudes) might want to add to their emergency stock is baby food .

          i just got a various flavors 24 4oz GLASS jar case of organic vegi rice squash chicken etc baby food for 24 bucks and i tried out the squash ;0) not bad with a lil’ sun flower seeds , hemp/ olive oil , pepper and oregano .

          food for prepper thought . lots of pluses +++ healthy body good reasons to have a case or two stored in a cool dry place with your lentils beans and rice . they even have lil’ baby deserts ;0) .

          ~N.O. ;0p slurp

      34. A Holiday Reminder,

        During this lovely Holiday season please remember that everyone, everywhere is wanting to sell you anything they CAN. This includes the ‘on-line’ world as well and belive me those ‘idjits’ will do ANYTHING to get access to your computer.
        After having seen all the problems people have been having over the last few weeks, since the Thanksgiving period, a few reminders may be helpful;

        Your router is the center of how you get ‘from here to there’ as it were. Anyone who can redirect your router effectively owns what you do and see online. That said, one needs only unplug or turn off it off for 30 seconds or so to force it to reset. For the more technically proficient amongst the crowd you can also use the the unit’s web interface to set it’s parameters.
        Don’t go YEARS without changing your router’s password! These days if someone REALLY wants into your gear they can get there in a matter of hours…once they have your password then it’s “Gotcha!”.
        Run your AV as full-bore as you can, as much as you can and if something doesn’t quite seem ‘right’ then full scan everything in sight!

        JOG SAY……Happy Safe, Holidays Everyone!

        • {I apologize for he length, but if I delete something, message is compromised}
          Just a heads up for everyone regarding the latest in Visa fraud. Royal Bank received this communication about the newest scam.
          This one is pretty slick since they provide YOU with all the information, except the one piece they want..

          This information is worth reading. By understanding how the VISA & MasterCard telephone Credit Card Scam works, you’ll be better prepared to protect yourself. One of our employees was called on Wednesday from ‘VISA’, and I was called on Thursday from ‘MasterCard’.

          The scam works like this:

          Person calling says – ‘This is (name), and I’m calling from the Security and Fraud Department at VISA. My Badge number is 12460, Your card has been flagged for an unusual purchase pattern, and I’m calling to verify. This would be on your VISA card which was issued by (name of bank). Did you purchase an Anti-Telemarketing Device for $497.99 from a marketing company based in Arizona ?’ When you say ‘No’, the caller continues with, ‘Then we will be issuing a credit to your account. This is a company we have been watching and the charges range from $297 to $497, just under the $500 purchase pattern that flags most cards. Before your next statement, the credit will be sent to (gives you your address), is that correct?’ You say ‘yes’.

          The caller continues – ‘I will be starting a Fraud Investigation. If you have any questions, you should call the 1- 800 number listed on the back of your card (1-800-VISA) and ask for Security. You will need to refer to this Control Number. The caller then gives you a 6 digit number. ‘Do you need me to read it again?’

          Here’s the IMPORTANT part on how the scam works – The caller then says, ‘I need to verify you are in possession of your card’. He’ll ask you to ‘turn your card over and look for some numbers’. There are 7 numbers; the first 4 are part of your card number, the last 3 are the Security Numbers that verify you are the possessor of the card. These are the numbers you sometimes use to make Internet purchases to prove you have the card.The caller will ask you to read the last 3 numbers to him. After you tell the caller the 3 numbers, he’ll say, ‘That is correct, I just needed to verify that the card has not been lost or stolen, and that you still have your card. Do you have any other questions?’

          After you say no, the caller then thanks you and states, ‘Don’t hesitate to call back if you do’, and hangs up. You actually say very little, and they never ask for or tell you the card number. But after we were called on Wednesday, we called back within 20 minutes to ask a question. We were glad we did! The REAL VISA Security Department told us it was a scam and in the last 15 minutes a new purchase of $497.99 was charged to our card. We made a real fraud report and closed the VISA account. VISA is reissuing us a new number.. What the Scammer wants is the 3-digit PIN number on the back of the card. Don’t give it to them. Instead, tell them you’ll call VISA or Master Card directly for verification of their conversation.

          The real VISA told us that they will never ask for anything on the card as they already know the information since they issued the card! If you give the Scammer your 3 Digit PIN Number, you think you’re receiving a credit; however, by the time you get your statement you’ll see charges for purchases you didn’t make, and by then it’s almost too late and/or more difficult to actually file a fraud report.

          What makes this more remarkable is that on Thursday, I got a call from a ‘Jason Richardson of MasterCard’ with a word-for-word repeat of the VISA Scam. This time I didn’t let him finish. I hung up! We filed a police report, as instructed by VISA. The police said they are taking several of these reports daily! They also urged us to tell everybody we know that this scam is happening. I dealt with a similar situation this morning, with the caller telling me that $3,097 had been charged to my account for plane tickets to Spain , and so on through the above routine..

          It appears that this Is a very active scam, and evidently quite successful..

          Pass this on to all your family and friends.

          • GOOD ONE JJ!!!

            There’s more of that kinda sh_t going on lately than ‘Carter has little pills’ as the saying goes. Everybofy needs a little ‘wake-up’ reminder now and then, T’anks!!!

        • Technically if they have access to your router then turning it off and on won’t do anything unless you physically press the reset button, usually very tiny pin button on the back that you have to press with a straightened paperclip.

          If I have access to your router I’ll reset your default DNS on your DHCP scopes to use ‘my’ dns server which of course will be poisoned with the entries sending you where I want to you go. I’ll also add a new route to your routing tables to feed you through my proxy server which will capture all your traffic as it passes through.

          Only a true reset back to factory defaults using the reset button or the owner knowing what to look for and fixing it will kick me out.

          A full reset will require you to configure your router all over again as it returns it to off the shelf configuration.

      35. THE FUTURE(my view)…There will be no zombie hordes. There will be no second revolution in the near future.The Fed will continue to monetize the debt be it 30, 50, or 100 trillion. The corp gov and MIC and all the “brown shirts” will be funded and continue to grow to keep the serfs worldwide in line. Foreign gov that does not cooperate will continue to be “humanitarily” replaced with ones that do. Unless you are totally self sufficient as a community you will eventually be on the gov control programs (SNAP, EBT, etc). Jobs will be offshored to cheapest labor and any left will be low paid or gov. MIC will continue to exploit young men with no future and immigrants with free green cards to enlist. There will be no shortage of soldiers to defend the status quo for food and shelter.The world will be totally slave and master (you think you’re free but you’re not). No one has the technology or manpower to stand up to the moneymasters. It is already too late. They have technology we know nothing about. Any resistance will be labelled terrorism and stomped out or disappeared. Communication is not secure and they know who you are and what you do. I’m paranoid and my head hurts. I want to go back to being a sheep.

      36. My DW works for a medium size multi-national company. Yesterday she was in a meeting with some of the other top people, all 6 figure salary, MBA’s During the meeting the subject of the “Fiscal Cliff” came up and one of the V.P.’s started talking about how the buying power of the dollar is shrinking.
        Bottom line was that many of the people in the room had already started moving their personal money out of dollars into, Gold, Silver, Canadian Dollars, Swiss Francs and off shore accounts.

        When this concern filters from the “early adopters”, like Preppers, to your everyday Business people, you have to wonder how much room for more pressure there is left in the balloon, ….before it pops!

        • Thank you SBG…

          That’s exactly right…
          Nice to know we’re not so crazy… eh?

          This is what i’ve been telling folks, its not the phony numbers coming out of Washington that are important anymore, its all about VOLUMES not PRICES…

          By Washington’s numbers, if the prices of things go up, that’s a GOOD thing and the economy is improving…
          Real people know better.
          We’re in a Grand Depression, an order of magnitude worse than the great depression. The only difference is FOOD STAMPS.
          Those people who’re dropping off unemployment?
          We have become;
          SCAM NATION

          Thanks for bringing this data to light Mac.

      37. So we are back to the average seen in the 90’s…. now the 90’s was a good decade. I enjoyed it, made some money and was able to travel the world and get married. Cannot ask for more I say, so ‘no problemo’ me thinks.

      38. This is off topic, but I am sure everyone in here is fed up with our banking institutions. Has anyone tried to cash a check written out to you at the bank from where the check was written? If so and you are not a customer of that bank, the bank will charge you a fee for cashing the check of their customer who wrote you the check!! The fee BoA charges is $6.00!! We know they are insolvent, and this is why fees of every kind will continue to increase. How much are we willing to hand over to these crooks.This is why we no longer need to keep money in the banks. They have always been thieves but not they are blatant thieves!! People, get out of these institutions, we don’t need them, they need us and they are getting desperate.

        • My business bank tried to charge me $5.00 to cash a check because I was the customer of another branch. A moment of the managers time and there was no charge. But the audacity of the teller was amazing.

      39. Charts are nice, but they can be manipulated to say or show what ever the person or group making them wants the chart to show..along the lines of “figures dont lie but liers can figure”

        My Gut , wallet, and eyes have been telling me this shit has been coming for a long time

      40. We don’t need charts or the wailing of economist to see what is happening. Go to the grocery store and look at the prices and how thy are increasing monthly. Look at the storefronts that are empty of businesses. Listen to the talking faces who cry out that everything is improving. Look at the figures coming out of Washingtone, that are lies. I rest my case.

      41. Belafonte to Obama: Imprison Opposition ‘Like a Third World Dictator’…

        On Drudge.

        • As barry said on election night, the best is yet to come!!!

      42. This country needs the BIG RESET. Stop the money faucet of 5 billion a day borrowed. Then let the chips fall. It will be painful, yes. America without her makeup is not pretty. But it needs to be done. I would rather live or die through it now than let my 4 children do so when it is 20x worse down the road. Not too many people seem to feel the same, however. I would be willing to lose almost all I have except for my health and a few essential tools if we could get a reboot and deal with the fallout. Most in this country are too used to being spoon fed and bitching about how $8.50 an hour is not a living wage. This wage is the reality that no one will accept as true reality. It is supposed to be a tough world. Why is everyone entitled to a smart phone with bluetooth, unlimited everything, a nice car, house, new clothes, $10 movie ticket, dinners out, free mommy/daddy-paid tuition, $50 haircuts, etc. Buck up people.
        The big boys at the top do need to fail as well in many cases. This will allow them to see that employees are worth more also. I could go on and on, yall get the point. Too many things wrong with this scenario for it to ever end well. I guess that is why we are on this site.

        • I heard about this yesterday, it is absolutely disgusting.

      43. The plant in which I work imports most of its raw materials and exports most of the product produced. The period of high prices on the BDI chart coincided with our best business period EVER. Our business has tanked since the economy dropped off the map in 2008 and has not recovered (we sell to worldwide steel/metals industry). There IS no recovery in the basic building industry and this chart shows it perfectly. We have laid off 80+ percent of our workforce and are crossing our fingers and everything else that we can that we can just hold on.

        • When I started at the contract electronics manufacturer I currently work for back in ’07, we had over 120 employees and were a $30MM company. Today we have 40 employees and are a $6MM company. Yeah, the economy is just fantastic!!! /sarc

      44. Everything remains as it never was….

          • “I used to be disgusted and now I try to be amused.”
            ~Elvis Costello~

      45. I’m so glad the black are not in charge. WHY you ask? Because they will fuck this country up and socialism will not work. So…after you prep up.. Then prep up for the rebuilding. Have your skills, teams of guys ready, tools, finances, materials in place.
        A good example of this.. Rental Property. Plenty to buy cheap in time and fix up for long-term rental…your new pension!!!

        They will steal 401k and IRA….socialists always do.
        Your stocks will be sold off and you’ll be given an “account” just as the dollar becomes worthless. So… Go rental property. Go higher end…the poor will default on you


        tip. Better fewer properties in better shape than many in shit shape.
        My upstairs rent makes me $10k a year. It bought my sports car.

        There you go.

      46. This huge Ponzi scheme is now in free fall. Looks like Europe will take the first plunge off the cliff, then like Domino’s one by one, China, Japan, USA and then the rest of the world will follow into the abyss.

      47. Our country has has changed. Its changed in the past and got back on the right track. Check out the 10 years or so after the civil war. The civil war really never ended until everyone directly involved with it was dead.

        Now its going to be hard and we must be smart. I’m trying to educate myself, to old to run anymore and no where to go.

        I must be brave, or lie a coward in my grave.

      48. Do like Iceland. Default on the debt and arrest the big bankers. That solves some of the problem. Then arrest the politicians and MSM. The problem gets smaller. Much more work needs to be done, but this is a start. Oh, I was just dreaming. We’re beyond restoring what we had. All we can do is try to create a future. It’s going to be a very tough nut to crack.

      49. NinaO,

        Feel the same way right now.

        While down in Florida I injured both knees and ankles and hip. So the grugs I am on night row don’t cake me mare about to mucking fuch. Life is good until the drugs stop working. In about three more weeks I will graduate from a calker to a wane.

        Saw some huge Tarpon. Well gotta go and get back to bed.

        Y’all Beware! Cake good Tare!!

      50. HA! I FOUND it! The information below is from this web site:

        I could really be wrong about this, but think you can post info as long as you credit the source. The following information is from the website above, and while I’d want to tweak the recipe with some protein and some fresh produce, it sounds very workable. It might be a good idea to buy several years worth of B-12, or learn to love deer liver, but is otherwise pretty complete. Hurray! I’ve been looking for this for almost two years! The soup will get old really fast, but starvation even faster.

        One Year Supply of Food Storage Under $300
        A years worth of food storage for under $300! Yes, you read that right. How does expanding your food storage with literally hundreds of meals for around $300 sound? I think I may have found one of the best kept secrets around for pumping your food storage up REAL FAST and REAL CHEAP.

        Scotch Broth is is a combination of grains and legumes and it provides a balanced and nutritious meal on the cheap! “This particular combination is said to provide a balance of ALL of the appropriate amino acids required for a person.”

        This is really easy recipe to “change” in countless ways.By adding left over meats or vegetables or adding dried vegetables to the mix you could totally change it up. It wouldn’t have to be “the same ol’ thing either!
        The following is an excerpt from the forums at Timebomb2k. This recipe has been floating around the internet for several years but I don’t think it has gotten nearly enough attention.

        This is what you will need
        4 x 22lb (or 10kg) rice. (Any kind will do).
        2 x 11lb (or 5kg) kidney beans
        2 x 11lb (or 5kg) barley
        2 x 11lb (or 5kg) lentils (yellow)
        1 x 5.5lb (or 2.5kg) green split peas
        1 x 5.5lb (or2.5 kg) chick peas (garbanzo beans)”

        ( You will also need a total of 30 pounds of bouillon. You will add it to each batch as you cook it. I think I will store both chicken AND beef bouillon. I added this into the cost and it IS reflected in the $300.)

        Put the rice in a mixing container.Then add each of the other ingredients 5kg at a time, mixing as you go. (Use surgical gloves or you’ll have no fingernails left, LOL!).
        When you have all the other ingredients mixed in with the first two bags of rice, add the last two bags of rice and *REALLY* mix well or you’ll get all rice on the bottom of your mixture.”

        “MAKING SOUP.
        Take 16oz of the dry mixture and put in about 6-7 quarts of water (with a nut of butter or a tsp. of olive oil to prevent soup boiling over) and add 3 tablespoons (or to taste) of powdered soup stock. We like to use chicken stock.
        Then add any veggies, meat, & seasoning you like (if available). (We like to also put in lots of garlic) (DO NOT USE ONIONS – they’ll spoil the mixture).
        Bring to a boil and let simmer for two hours and you have enough soup for two days for 4 people.

        On the second day you’ll need to add some more water (it thickens in the fridge overnight) and another tablespoon of stock. Make sure to boil for at least 10 minutes the second day to kill off any potential bacteria, – especially if you are not storing in fridge, but just in a root cellar or like that in the event of no electricity in summer.

        We make our own bread and have a thick slice fer dunkin’ with a large bowl of this delicious soup and it serves as a main meal. You are FULL after just one (large size) bowl of this stuff.

        Kids will usually only be able to eat half a bowl w/bread, or a small bowl, whichever you prefer. Adults will likely want a nice big bowl.

        If there is any mixture left on the third day, just add the new mixture to it. You will need less of course, but you’ll get to know how to gauge things as you go along catering to the requirements of your own little family.”
        “ONIONS>>>Re: onions… They ferment too quickly, and cut down the amount of time you can safely store already cooked soup.

        Assuming there are no refrigerators etc., it’s best to err on the side of caution and not use them in the soup. If you want to waste fuel and make your soup daily, then onions aren’t a problem.

        We LOVE onions in our house, and cook them by wrapping them in tinfoil, and putting them in the ever-burning wood stove for an hour. We put in some potatoes too usually, and have a meal of tatties & onions. They taste wonderful prepared in this way, particularly if you add a little butter or olive oil and some herbs when you take them out of the fire. This and some greens is all you need to exist except for vitamin B12.

        The recipe calls for the following ingredients by weight
        88 pound(s) or 40 kilogram(s) rice
        22 pound(s) or 10 kilogram(s) kidney beans
        22 pound(s) or 10 kilogram(s) barley
        22 pound(s) or 10 kilogram(s) lentils, yellow
        5.50 pound(s) or 05 kilogram(s) green split peas
        5.50 pound(s) or 05 kilogram(s) chick peas
        165 pound(s) or 80 kilogram(s) Total weight

        These parts are converted (by weight) as follows to arrive at one pound of broth.
        08 ounce(s) rice
        02 ounce(s) red kidney beans
        02 ounce(s) pearl barley
        02 ounce(s) lentils (yellow)
        01 ounce(s) green split peas
        01 ounce(s) chick peas (Garbanzos)
        16 ounce(s) Total Food”

        Along with the basic recipe there are also other suggestions to make this truly an excellent source for your long term food storage. One thought that I had was that this would be a good way to have some “charitable” foods on hand. You could package it into smaller containers (1 or 2 pounds) and have a few meals on hand for the less fortunate. Another idea would be to make up a batch and dehydrate it. You would have a fast and tasty “Instant Soup”.
        If you were to do this over 12 pay-days, and if you are paid weekly, – you would have a10-year food supply in just 3 months. What a super way to “pump up” your food storage!
        ~~~ Hey … I’m Just Sayin’ …~~~

        • @ Vicky

          Thanks for the awesome link.

        • We do a very similar soup in the slow cooker every week at this time of year – to be ready when we get home from my kid’s riding lesson. I add the last leftovers of the previous weekend’s meat for flavour and some fresh or dried herbs or even chilli(depending on what’s on hand).

          Stops me succumbing to the temptation of a take away, and is ideal comfort food for those miserable wet winter nights.


          I’ve seen this recipe and others similar and they’re going to get you killed, a nasty slow death by starvation that would have Sally Struthers putting you in one of her commercials. (I may be dating myself there…)

          I’ve done the ‘math’ on these recipes. The calories this provides comes _nowhere_ near providing enough for even a starvation diet for a toddler. Trying to use this for a year’s supply will see you dead in 4-5 months.

          Just take the calories of each component, readily available on the internet, for example rice is around 1440 calories per raw pound, most legumes, the beans barley, lentils peas etc are around 600-900 calories per pound uncooked. Always take the lowest calorie per ounce posted when computing your food storage.

          If you take the above ‘year’ supply you’ll end up with roughly 170,000 – 180,000 calories. That’s about 500 calories a day. A semi-active adult needs 2400 calories, a growing preteen and teen needs closer to 3000 to maintain health.

          This is NOT a year supply. At best it’s 3 months and that’s 1900 calories a day.

          • HAW ~

            Great point!

            If I can chime in – people must remember that in a down-grid situation particularly, they will be doing more physical labor, which will increase the need for calories even more.

            ~ D

      51. Here is something to start watching for (and do some back research on too ’cause some of this is already happing)
        watch for people in government positions to start dropping out of thier government jobs..IE..”stepping down” or what ever excuse they come up with to leave that position..
        “rats leaving the ship”

        some of this has already been going on..I expect it to start excellerating very here, one there..than possibly a cascade.
        from your local to your state, and all the way to DC..

        watch for it, and look back to see who’s already bailed

      52. BI,

        Looks like the western Caribbean is starting to heat up. Quite a few mid-fours and now some 5+ quakes starting. Warning time for the eastern part of that plate?

      53. Bill Ayers (Terrorist)
        Tom Ayers (Radical)
        Van Jones (Former Green Jobs Czar, Communist)
        Anita Dunn (Maoist, Communist)
        Tony Rezco (Convicted Felon: Fraud, Bribery)
        Rev. Jeremiah “God Da&$ America” Wright (Radical, Black Liberation Theologist)
        Prof. Frank Marshal Davis (Communist)
        Gov. Rod Blagojevich (Convicted Felon and former Gov. of IL)
        Andy Stern, Union SEIU Head, (Maoist, Communist)
        Saul Alinsky (Author: Rules for Radicals)
        Prof. Frances Fox Piven (Communist and Radical)
        Kevin Jennings – “safe school czar” (radical homosexual who supports NAMBLA)

      54. Once again I will go out on a limb and say I know things suck out there but as far as a collapse…… will have to wait a long while for that one .
        I have been preaching this since august of 2011 and we are a year and a half into my forecast when people like celente have called for a crash and bank holidays and ww3 and GOLD $2000 to happen a long time ago ! Follow me grasshopper , I will lead you to the light

      55. Try Medicated Gold Bond on your nuts guys,……it works great !

      56. oh boy….

      57. when any nation stops backing their money with tangible items ( gold , silver , etc. ) it at that moment becomes worthless , and is only worth something if other nations agree to honor the worthless unbacked currency ……………….we are now seeing the results of this bad policy and judgement .

      58. One thing largely forgotten on fear forums is the fact we’re now living under the worlds largest oil reserve, trillions upon trillions of dollars worth. Likely more then Saudi’s a Iraq and Iran combined. According to some reports. Saudi’s for sure.

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