Former Federal Reserve Chairman Alan Greenspan discussed the future of the economy on NBC’s Meet The Press and honed in on the Bush tax cut extension proposed by Republicans in Congress and unemployment:
In an interview on NBC’s “Meet the Press,” Greenspan expressed his disagreement with the conservative argument that tax cuts essentially pay for themselves by generating revenue and productivity among recipients.
“They do not,” said Greenspan.
“I’m very much in favor of tax cuts but not with borrowed money and the problem that we have gotten into in recent years is spending programs with borrowed money, tax cuts with borrowed money,” he said. “And at the end of the day that proves disastrous. My view is I don’t think we can play subtle policy here.”
Tax cuts with borrowed money? In Greenspan’s defense, he did note that spending with borrowed money is an issue. But let’s be clear. Tax cuts are NOT borrowed money. Congress has spent money that they did not have available. To do this, they borrowed money. Now, to pay off this borrowed money they have to raise taxes, because clearly cutting spending is not an option for them.
It is not at all necessary to borrow money to let anyone keep the money they earn. What is necessary is for Congress to not spend money that they don’t have in the first place.
Mr. Greenspan’s low interest rate policies were the primary mechanism responsible for the outrageous real estate prices we experienced from 2002 to 2007. It was his policies that essentially led to to excessive borrowing not only for home purchases, but everything from cars to iPhones. But since it was his idea, borrowed money on the consumer side doesn’t seem to be at issue for him.
“I see it [as] we just stay where we are,” he said. “There is a gradual increase in employment but not enough to reduce the level of unemployment …There is nothing out there that I can see which will alter the trend or the level of unemployment in this country.”
There is NO INCREASE in employment, Mr. Greenspan. We are not adding jobs. The BLS is doing nothing more than a head-fake with the numbers by categorizing those people who have lost their unemployment benefits and those who have been out of work for a year as “no longer in the workforce.” Just because someone can’t find work for a year does not mean they are out of the workforce. Most of these people want jobs, the problem is, Sir, that there are no jobs to be had. This is the reason why we are not seeing the “official” unemployment rate trending higher – fuzzy math.
We differ on what the trend is. Based on his statement Mr. Greenspan believes we’ll stay stagnant on employment. This is far from being the truth. The trend is that consumers are spending less, making less, have less credit and are up to their necks in existing debt that they can no longer service. This, not an extension of President Bush’s tax cuts, is disastrous. The trend is not stagnation in terms of employment. We are going to lose more jobs. Whether the BLS counts the numbers correctly is one thing, but the reality is that we will continue to lose more jobs going forward.
Now that we understand what the trend really is, we can agree with Mr. Greenspan’s last statement that there is nothing that is going to alter this going forward.
We are in a downward spiral, and a lack of jobs is the elephant in the room.
No kidding the economy isn’t adding jobs. Next month will be a year since I was laid-0ff. This is the longest that I have ever been unemployed, no end in sight. I have a university degree and am a construction superintendent/project manager. If anyone was building anything …. I would be working.
Early Social Security here I come …… for as long as the checks last.
Hey Markie- Â things are the same around here. Â We are in contract negotiations right now with our union, and learned a couple weeks back that there are NO MAJOR JOB starts in the Seattle area, for the remainder of this year, and all of next year. Â (For the uninitiated, that means no jobs where there are cranes, no towers, no condos, no major shopping centers). Â In other words, no jobs where there will be “lots of jobs”.
I plan to just do what I have to do to get by. Â The old days of having one, stable employer, seem to be gone. Â I don’t know how these assholes can get on TV and continue the happy recovery talk. Â There is no recovery.
“The USA is a fascist oligarchy which utilizes military power to control critical strategic resources that supports a fiat money system used to manage a global empire”.   You guys need to get out of the construction industry and get into the destruction business instead.  Financial control is this countries’ primary export. Why do you think Obama is increasing troop levels in Afghanistan and preparing for war with Iran? Â
I just signed up to unemployment for my last extention .Im a Machinist. I was makeing 24 dollars an hour and i have 25 years experiance. When i go to apply for jobs , they want to pay me 12 bucks and hour and 15 bucks an hour if i use my own tools and they dont have any medical insurance .My last Job s while working for the company was Government jobs or as we call them G -Jobs .Most of what i was makeing was specialised part ‘s for Rifles and a light weight aluminum carrier to fit on humvees to place wounded soldiers on and as well as make specialised componants for a special forces  vehicle that had self inflating tire system , looked similiar to a dune buggy and made for desert warfare , along with specialized machines gun mounts and loaded with Titanium parts for durabality . The most of my years was doing regular work for local vendors with custom parts .The last several years was doing Government work and that was it . Now,I have realised im like a Dinosour now .Nobody wants to pay me for my skills in machineing and the lack of machineing jobs is fadeing fast . Some few machine shops recently are doing jobs to just break even and keep there people busy .Its about makeing any profit but to just keep there doors open .They have really dropped there prices and the competition is fierce.Even the smller shops with only a few machines will bid jobs at cost so to keep payroll going . This wintertime were i live in california is always the most slowest time of the year for machine shops . I know last year when i was working it was so bad, that we would come in, do a small job and be sent home 3 later, this lasted for about 3 months so we knew what was coming up . But this winter i see the doors closeing or more mass layoffs .There are no replacement jobs for machineing its just about all gone and the manufacturing base is not coming back .
I have helped  moved several people that also got laid off when i did.the saddest part was moveing a friend/coworker and his wife and 2 kids back to his dads house .They lost there home and had his wifes car repoed. He sold the lawn mowers and yard eqipment and the kids play house and swings and most anything they wont be useing. I visted him a few weeks ago and they invited me for a barbecue and i wish i had not have went .the kids wernt happy at all like i use to see them and then while we were talking guy talk, I looked and saw his wife squat down talking to there young son and he was saying i want to go back home and then she started to cry to , it made my heart sink .
This whole situation is caused by many things.
There is no end in sight to this .The jobs arent coming back and the ones available are low wage no future jobs . As the numberes increase so will the lies we hear on daily basis as the media helps this Lie continue . We are goign to a double dip and then to Depression, In fact in convinced that nothign will change this cource . I expect millions of americans running out of unemployment benefits and loseing everything.I see familkies being devistated and living the streets ,I see the elderly on a fixed income living even lower standards and scraping to live and i see Massive taxation and the markets coming down wipeing out what little next egg the average working man has left to finish them off.  Its by design and its no mistake . Were going to be seperated by the haves and have nots .
The whole system neds to be purged and Presidents, senators, congressmen, representatives,govenors, and other in Leadership to be charged with crimes and either arrested and put in Prision or charges with Treason with a fair trial and if found guilty ,To be shot on the White house steps with the National Television showing the executions on live Television(this will include all living people who worked for government past or present) .This will send the message and this will get the Nation back on track and Back to the Constitution .
If we go back to the Constitition we wont have to worry about the IRS and the Federal Reserve and the Central Bankers and other departments that caused Americans to suffer much  at the Hands of a few ! Â
Â
Next month unemployment will fall to below 9.5% even though 100 million will actually be unemployed or “not in the labor force.”
We know the government drops unemployed people from the official number if they are on employment too long.
Today, less than 58% of the labor force is working.
These are the government’s own numbers:
http://www.bls.gov/web/empsit/cpseea1.pdf
Not only does your salary supports your own family, through high taxation it also supports another unworking family.
Once freeloaders get free meals it is doubtful freeloaders will ever seek employment for the same measure that they today get for mooching.
Mac,
As far as the United State Federal Corporation is concerned they consider tax cuts borrowed money because, since about 1933, they OWN US. Our very blood, body and soul are monetized via your birth certificate and via your SSN. Therefore, if you reduce the milking of the cow or the taxing of the slave, its like borrowing. These traitors and thieves must eventually be punished for their evil deeds.
Don’t believe me? Take a look:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-2b6dznIrfw&feature=related
Frankly, we’ve been raped and raped and raped and raped again! About the only hope for us is full collapse or a full return to Common Law (probably via something like the Restore America Plan – http://americandreampreservation.com ).
Now that I know about the suspension of the constitution and the creation of the United States Federal Corporation and now that I know that we are not a republic but a corporate democracy and now that I know that I really don’t have any constitutional rights and I cannot actually own anything, as I read these articles, everything makes perfect sense. All those years of yelling at the TV when traitor-bastards (aka elected officials) would say “Our Democracy”, it was *ME* that was ignorant, not them!
Here is a good explanation:
http://americandreampreservation.com/node/5
I hate them! What they have done to us! I hate them, I hate their children and their parents! They are cruel, they are evil. When this fraud they have perpetrated comes apart, I pledge to all the people they have screwed, I will survive! I will survive and I will watch them suffer. I will watch at God pours his wrath (or, Karma gets them, if you prefer…). I enjoy it immensely and it will be the greatest pleasure I have ever known!
So much is explained by this. Delve into it. Study it. Its all there. You’ll find, like I did that it clears up many mysteries.
Illegal immigrants? Guess what? They have constitutional rights. You dont. They can drive, fish, carry weapons, run a business, etc, all without a license and they only have to follow common law. …which means, if there is not injured party, there is no crime and thus no arrest. Also, under Admiralty Law, what us slaves have to live under, you are guilty until proven innocent. Illegals are presumed to have constitutional rights. You do not.
Evil men and evil deeds must be punished.
Indeep & all,
Indeep thinks like most of us I’m sure regarding the politicians currently in office & HIGH CRIMES OF TREASON. This issue is so important because the will of the people is blatantly being ignored & the Constitution is being methodically shredded by design. When the Speaker of the House Pelosi says; “Just vote on the bill & then we will read it”,  that ladies & gentlemen is a HIGH CRIME of TREASON as it equates to willful & reckless abuse of her position, while jeopardizing not only our social & economic health, but our national security as well.  That is RECKLESS DISREGARD for what could be in the bill that very well could be detrimental & include permanent damaging components to our entire way of life. As we all know now, it already has !!!  The Health Care bill, Nationalizing the Auto Industry, Cap & Trade, Suing Arizona, Increasing our taxing on top of a DEPRESSION (we are not in a recession. We could only be so lucky), sneaking in a tax on precious metals we hold on the latest bill, etc……. Sneaking in so many items in these bills is disturbing & unconscionable by any standards.
Everyone needs to e-mail or call the media and demand that they start airing the story of TREASONIST ACTS by these politicians and hold them accountable. If everyone reading this forum does start beating the TREASON drum, then maybe, just maybe we will initiate some form of accountability. Today- I e-mailed all of the local & national news media outlets telling them that if they are anything close to a CREDIBLE source of news, they need to start reporting the “BLATANT”  HIGH CRIMES of TREASON by our these people in office/Congress.  Please get off the couch & engage. STTRENGTH IN NUMBERS… STRENGTH IN NUMBERS !!!!!
I’ve seen this coming for 6 yrs by reading the following sites, jsmineset, silverbearcafe, coloradogold, coinflation, dollarcollapse, kitco, fdic failed bank list every Fri @ bank closing times for each time zone, BBCnews, economicnoise, theburningplatform & 321gold. You add the .com. Many view points from intelligent writers, they haven’t led me wrong yet. I owe these writers a great deal. Thanks Mac.
Yes, times are tough. They are tough for me too. Think outside the box. Adapt. Change. Grow. Rely on the spirit within you for new inspiration, new insights, a new attitude, and a new direction.
In every crisis there is a seed of opportunity for you. Even if you piss on it, it will grow.  🙂
@ Paul Revere:  I don’t like you much.  You and I have had bad words in the past.  However, I agree about getting in the “destruction business”.  From here out, I’m in this for me and my own.  I no longer care about any  “greater good” or any hokey bullshit like that.  None of these fuckers is going to look out for me.
I just got the crown jewel of my armory (AR-50). Â Come get me, if you can……….. Â ”
““The USA is a fascist oligarchy which utilizes military power to control critical strategic resources that supports a fiat money system used to manage a global empireâ€The USA is a fascist oligarchy which utilizes military power to control critical strategic resources that supports a fiat money system used to manage a global empireâ€. You guys need to get out of the construction industry and get into the destruction business instead. ““The USA is a fascist oligarchy which utilizes military power to control critical strategic resources that supports a fiat money system used to manage a global empireâ€. You guys need to get out of the construction industry and get into the destruction business instead.  Financial control is this countries’ primary export. Why do you think Obama is increasing troop levels in Afghanistan and preparing for war with Iran? The USA is a fascist oligarchy which utilizes military power to control critical strategic resources that supports a fiat money system used to manage a global empireâ€. You guys need to get out of the construction industry and get into the destruction business instead.  Financial control is this countries’ primary export. Why do you think Obama is increasing troop levels in Afghanistan and preparing for war with Iran?
wow…you guys are on a roll. i haveta say i certainly agree with the vast majority of your views. these crooked investment “bankers” paid our lovely politicians to legally create a fake system so they could  get federal reserve money ( our money) at no interest or low interest then leverage it 40 to 1 to gamble with using scams that boogle the imagination. then when their crooked collateralized debt ogligations and credit default swap scams collapse they have already bought gold buillion and shipped it to israel and left us with the debts of 13 trillion dollars. these are fake banks -for instance have you ever seen a goldman sachs bank or ATM machine. i travel all over the country and i’ve never seen one.
I have to agree with Tom I saw this coming about 10 years ago and lightened my load a lot paid everything off.
I drive POS cars and grow my own food which saves a bundle.
You would be amazed at how much money you save by not having big interest payments every month.
Then get rid of dishnet and all the other BS you not only have more money but more quality time.
I also am a machinist/prototyper as well as a farmer.
I am getting by but I am not getting rich but quite frankly I am happy to make $10-$15 per hour after expenses since I see so many that have no work at all.
And at least I am my own boss.
Red
Greenspan talking about anything related to taxes, jobs, housing or the economy is like having Satan as a guest telling people how to lead a wholesome life.
Greenspan and his Zionist mouthpiece wife Andrea Mitchell would both look much nicer dressed up in shiny full metal jackets.
Loss of jobs will continue. Even those who feel secure at their jobs could be caught in surprise by the time they get that “pink slip”. It’s a chain reaction. As more people get kicked out of work as less money being pumped into the economy. As more credit defaults, as more foreclosures, etc. As the continuous result, businesses suffer less product/services demands, so they have to cut help…and later, shut the doors, and the cycle repeats: Less money into the system, less jobs, lack of jobs, lack of buying power, lack of product demand, more loss of jobs…successively…
Time to re-think, re-organize, re-invent life, survive!
Durango…
Everything my dog pees on dies.
The way I see it is we are in a downward spiral that is getting wider and deeper. The government will conitnue to lie about the numbers so the masses don’t panic. The way the numbers are presented on the weekly reports is a joke; 11k less new filings, 38k less new filings. the fact is they have over 400k new filings. every 3 months is another 1.2 million jobs gone. I say the real numbers are already 22% to 26% and that my friends is Depression era numbers.Â
For those who think my math is fuzzy I’m just rounding. Does anyone know where the government gets the saved jobs numbers from? I’m told that its just a mathmatical formula based on the amount of stimulis spending.
Just a few years ago banks were adertising for you to get out of debt with more debt. Remember the guy in the Ditech commercial riding around on his mower saying “I in debt up to my eyeballs” How true it was. Now he has no mower, no home, no job.
I’m curious when the top actually comes out & looks into the camera & tells the people that the gov. couldn’t spend their way out of this problem. I figure after the election, unless the match is lit somewhere else. I’ve seen homeless people coming out of my storage bldg rental place that were “living” there and riding bikes. I’ve traveled the world & seen many things. This does not surprise me.
Maybe it’s the all years of my Tai Chi training,  that has taken the John Wayne out of me, but I don’t see any point in fighting the system anymore. I’m almost 40, the gray is starting to show and I still have a lot of life left. I’m bugging out. The USA is a memory as we know it. I don’t know wtf the US is anymore.. A democracy… a socialist regime… corporate aristocracy? While my passport is still good, I’m taking off for the mountains of South America. There are hundreds of small, sustainable communities that time has forgot, far from guerillas, drug lords and greedy ass governments. I will  befriend the people there and live in peace.  Those who stay and defend the motherland, just remember, make sure you enjoy each and every moment while you can. Be aware of things, but don’t let this crap bring ya down. Namaste bitches.
While unemployment numbers rise globally, strange thing are happening.
Stockmarkets rise in a trivial rally, people (except some like us) live in a nirvana, dancing with the stars is the ultimate “painkiller”, banks are being saved having showed earnings, etc.
What the hell is going on people? I’m about to forget the economics that i learned in the university.
Why this euphoria while people are literally dying of hunger?
I’m not sure anymore.
Are we a bunch of conspiracy theorists who try to confirm their ultimate fears? Maybe the global governments really managed to save the world? Or they are trying to calm people down before the final strike?
Manos
Comments…..
I don’t know if I am just being syndical in my, what MUST be wildly uneducated thoughts but, according to Debtclock.org the unemployed number is 14,732,472, the officially unemployed number is 25,074,681.  Saved, created, kiss my assed or what ever. How in the flying hell can the sitting Admin. including Obama stand up anywhere and say “THESE†are good numbers???????? WTF!!!! Do the folks need to be drug tested or what? They have to be out there looping Mars or something. They are surly not insane enough to think somebody is ignorant enough to buy into this shit.
 I guess we have to remember that 95% of this administration has never actually held a job. That might explain it. Â
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Comments…..Manos, in the upper world of the elite things are flying high, the other 99%Â of the people are considered oxygen thiefs and don’t really matter, they already started culling the herd. All people are equal, but lately it’s become clear that some are more equal than others.
Your grandparents probably could have taught you more on economics than “the university”. Mine did. Some the things I’ve seen “as they were happening: silver going out of coins, zinc copper plated pennies, “that sucking sound of jobs going overseas”, cheap AG/AU, free credit card offers in the mail, internet cookies, people standing in line to bid on a house/condo, everybody qualifies, 2nd/3rd mortgages on homes & people feeling like they are “rich”, price of stamps going up, learning what a derivative is, gov jobs increasing, undeclared wars, being able to purchase 2 year registration on car, food prices, water prices/sewage prices, cap/tax, SGLI increasing, FDIC amounts increasing for bank accounts, NWO talk “again” with each POTUS,  credit card for food, debit cards,  chipped passports, scanners along the interstate, road camera’s, water run off fees, septic tank fees, mandatory health care, forever unemployment checks for many, lies & damn lies about birth certificates, African Americans that have never been to Africa, 3-5 million $ for weddings that you help pay for, and Greece being propped up (everything’s “FINE” now), congress getting a golden parachute & voting for raises every year, the $ being the prettist horse in the glue factory, Supreme Court nominees saying one thing & voting another way, future undocumented dems protesting & CNN telling me that everything is getting better & Alan Greenspan writing a book & having the nerve to be seen on tv again, and social security. CNN telling people the job outlook is getting better & the recession is over. The POTUS blaming the Repubs for not voting for extending the unemployment checks.Â
For the US, and the world as we know it, the game is over…now, the Purification…Godspeed 🙂
Tony: If everything your dog pisses on dies, get rid of the dog, or have his urine tested. He is probably getting into your drugs ……Â 🙂
Comments…..Great blog site. I am standing ,watching the tsunami approaching. I have done all I can, now I will acquit myself like a man and will not despair. I have bowed down, humbled myself, repented and sought the face of the Lord, fully expecting him to hear my voice, forgive me and restore my land. I will not despair. I will not run. Join me.
The wife and I gave the SOBs the ‘finger’ in 1992, declared bankruptcy and dumped all our debt. In Texas you can affirm the debts that you will keep, the house in our case, and invited the credit card companies to kiss off.
Don’t bother telling me that this will ruin your credit either. Less than one month after our bankruptcy became final, the same credit card companies were in our mail box with their “you’re preapproved BS!” After that we keep one credit card for emergencies, perhaps an airline ticket in the middle of the night if someone in the wife’s family has an accident or suddenly becomes ill. We use the damn thing one time each month for a minimal purchase and pay it off in full immediately when the bill becomes due. We don’t have any other debt besides our monthly bills for auto insurance, electric, water, etc.
You would be surprised at what you can do without once you stop relying on credit. If we want it, we save up for it. Many times before we have the cash set aside to make the purchase, we have lost interest or decided that we really didn’t want/need whatever we previously thought that we wanted.
This will screw the man more than anything else. Interest is the blood that the bastards suck out of your body until you are almost dead financially ….. almost, but not quite ….. the assholes want you to be just alive enough to keep feeding them (making the payments).
Most people can still declare bankruptcy the same as they always did even under the new laws. Google “preplan bankruptcy” to find out the do’s and don’ts. There are even books on the subject so you don’t get in trouble. No cash advances within 180 days (6 months) prior to filing for bankruptcy. Buying food or groceries doesn’t count.
These a–holes have been screwing us for ever …… screw them for a change. It’s the best piece you’ll ever get!!! It feels soooo good to screw them for a change.
And how did they force you to buy junk you have now discovered you didn’t need in the first place? Your pain was totally self administered. It’s called RESPONSIBILITY!
It is a simple solution that we need. We need to simplify!
There is a reason all of the bs out of Washington is confusing. It because it doesn’t make any sense to start with!  I don’t care if it is purposeful or just stupidity coming from the idiots in DC, but the result is the same. I have been to former communist countries and it simply doesn’t work.
Personal responsibility must be restored!!! If you take care of you and yours, and everyone does the same, we can live simply and be ok. But we have to tell the Government that we don’t want or need their “help”.
And for those that would call me coldhearted, you need to understand how we do things in Texas. You get sick and need your hay baled and put away? If you have a relationship with your community and step up when necessary, you will see you neighbors bale your hay for you. I have seen and done it! But if you don’t know or speak to your neighbors or don’t help when needed, you can’t expect help from them!
Need help with groceries or utilities due to illness or bad luck? Maybe those is your Sunday School class at church will help. Seen that too!
It works, IF ITS VOLUNTARY! Voluntarily I will help damn near anyone. Try and force me to help and forget it! And damn sure don’t ask me to help those unwilling to help themselves.
I am in the rental business and I can’t tell you how many 60 inch TV’s I have seen in $450 / mo apartments. Think I am going to work with them on the rent when they have bigger tv and newer car than me and my wife, yet they can’t pay rent. Forget it! But you show me a family that is working towards saving for a house and living within their means, I may return a deposit before they even move or ask!
Francis Marion: Plus one here!
Comments….., message to Indeep: You hit the nail on the head. Your post could be the example of the same thing that’s happening across the whole of America.  People need to understand that nothing will ever be the same again in our lifetimes. Kids graduating from high school don’t have a chance. This IS their new reality. I think many  people in their 50’s, who have lost their jobs, and somehow believe this idiot president that we have, when he says things are going to turn around, are still in shock, waiting for that job offer that will never come again. They haven’t realized that things aren’t going to comeback for a very long time. They need to get used to the new reailty, sad as it is.
    I feel fortunate that I was able to retire at 55 from an industrial job, where I had a company paid pension, and a 4o1k. I took money from my 401k and paid off everything. So, even as I sit with less available retirement funds, I owe nothing. I also loaded up on precious metals. I also feel fortunate to work parttime, and get by ok.Â
   That being said, I watch the rest of the so called working class change their entire way of living, adapting to a new way of life, and losing the dream of seeing their former way of life ever again. people have to understand that our former way of life will never come again–it’s over . And Indeep, your point made about this all being planned is exactly right. We are good little sheep, bending over and taking it daily. But when the hordes of unemployed loose all benefits, and have nothing else to loose–watch out–the fun will begin.
     I have never in my life seen so many people begging on the street. Every street corner is covered up with people begging, some at 7am in the morning to get the best spots. I feel sorry for these people, and even sorrier that they will soon be joined by thousands more who have run out of benefits, and have no family to turn to.
    The future that I see comimg is going to be truly bad. By now, anyone who can’t see this is a real dumbass. The evidence is so clear. I have said all along, “if you think it’s bad now, give it six months”. Yes,  it will get a lot worse.
Dark days coming…soon!
I can empathize with those that are unemployed but I can’t feel sorry for you.I hear a lot of excuses-I’m a college and can’t find a job in my field,That job doesn’t pay enough,blah blah blah.Somebody up there said to think outside of the box and that’s what you need to do.I have been unemployed for well over 2 years now.I applied and got my 13 weeks of unemployment and that was it.I am against these “extentions” that they keep passing,once what you have paid in runs out,it’s just middle class welfare that the taxpayers are giving you.
Like I said,I’ve been unemployed for over 2 years,but I was told something a long time ago that has always stuck with me.I was told to diversify my skills as much as I can and always keep your tools.I have been fairly busy these last 2 years.I don’t care what it is,I’ll do it.My rates are 20 an hour for unskilled labor and 40 for skilled labor.The biggest thing besides the skills and the tools is networking.whether it’s through church or social groups,let people know your skillset.Hell,I’ll even pick up dog shit for 20 an hour,and there are people who will pay it.I do all phases of construction-I can build a house from the foundation to the roof.I can landscape,cut down trees,fix computers,fix furniture to sell, and just about anything else.Most of it is cash but there are times that I will even barter with people for things I may need (If you know what I mean,all you shtfplan fans).I’m really not trying to down any of you out there,I just want to point out that there is opportunity out there.
‎”Freedom is not defined by safety. Freedom is defined by the ability of citizens to live without government interference. Government cannot create a world without risks, nor would we really wish to live in such a fictional place. Only a totalitarian society would even claim absolute safety as a worthy ideal, because it would require total state control over its citizens’ lives..” — Ron Paul
Greenspan knows better so I can only assume he intentionally lied. First of all they are not “tax cuts” they are tax rate cuts. In theory a tax rate cut allows productive people to keep more of their money and thus they choose to become even more productive and end up paying more actual taxes.  The correct thing for the government to do during a recesion is to stimulate the economy with tax cuts not borrow money and give it to your supporters.Â
Comments…..Roger Farguson
August 2nd, 2010 at 4:59 pm
And how did they force you to buy junk you have now discovered you didn’t need in the first place? Your pain was totally self administered. It’s called RESPONSIBILITY!
—————————————
Â
Dittos! Fed Up In TX sounds like a dead beat who overextended his high taste for “got to have it now!” I don’t feel one bit of sympathy for anyone who skips out in their obligations. Nor do I feel sorry for anyone unemployed who did not save for a rainy day. I don’t feel sorry for anyone who has lost their home only because they could not afford it in the first place. Being stupid is no excuse for living off the backs of others. I call them the cocoapuff crowd.
NonStatistic,
“…that there is opportunity out there”
Really??? How many opportunities (in number)Â for 15 Million unemployed people out there and growing? How many of these 15 Million unemployed are as physically and emotionally strong and “lucky” as you may be? Sorry, no matter how good your intentions are in your comment, you just can’t make sense! It’s easy to criticize. It’s just a little bit more difficult to be in other people shoes, no matter how much we may think we have in common, in your case, you state that you have been out of work for over 2 years as well…One thing I noticed, throughout my life: Those who are most against smoking and smokers are those who were once heavy smokers. The same about other type of vices…Some people just become better people and some people just less understanding and more judgemental towards others when they go through hardship. I can understand why hardship exists, I got to the conclusion that its function is to test each one of us for our characters. Unfortunately a big part of us end up in the basket of bad apples…these will have to attend the same class over and over again until he/she becomes finally evolved and is ready to jump onto the next class!
GoldenFoxx’
You sound pretty tough, strong and responsible, can you tell a little bit about yourself? I really want to have a chance to understand what makes you so perfect! Maybe I will be able to use some of your good examples…
Sick and tired of ignorant people! Many of the comments in here sound very “not American”, people bashing those going through so many problems…I bet that behind the comments are friggin foreigners who hate Americans and want to see them killing each other! Americans have been always united and that’s what ever made them so strong and proud to be Americans. So, I have a message for you, none of you will destroy our country and our people because we do care for each other. Period!
FedUpInTexas,
WAY TO GO! I’m with you man, it takes courage and common sense to take the step you took! Food on the table first! Sanity first! Your family first! It’s better than killing yourself, killing your children, killing your neighbors, killing innocent strangers due to dispair. Instead, KILL your debts! Legally! If certain laws exist, there is a reason, it’s for one to use them if and when they are needed! Stop the low-level criticism.
And by the way, “A thief who steals another thief has a million years of forgiveness!”
Correction:
My comment is directed to MadMarkie, not FedUpInTexas.
Comments…..Jack
August 3rd, 2010 at 8:29 am
GoldenFoxx’
You sound pretty tough, strong and responsible, can you tell a little bit about yourself? I really want to have a chance to understand what makes you so perfect! Maybe I will be able to use some of your good examples…
————————
Maybe I was raised by parents who went through the Great Depression and was raised to never borrow what I could not repay. Living off the backs of others whether it be the bank or the taxpayer, is shrugging ones responsibility to pay for what they received. What is so difficult about that? We worked and saved our money, never lived beyond our means, paid cash for everything except our house, and we paid that off as well. Now we have a generation of cocoapuffers who feel as though they are entitled to “other people’s money.” Pure socialism is what this generation is believing in. Rip off banks and corporations and blame them for your inability to control yourself. Use that as an excuse instead of stepping up to the plate and take care of your financial obligations. Entitlements is now the mantra. A selfish/selfless generation is what we have bred.
JJ- I don’t see where I was downing anyone.Really,the only ones I’m down on are those who abuse the unemployment system.
Why do people come to this site?I always thought this site was a place for people planning their survival.And right now,trying to keep money coming in is part of our survival and I’m trying to give some encouraging advise.
I am flattered that you think I’m physically and emotionally strong but if you only knew.Even though I’m 40 I am still in great shape but luck had nothing to do with that-It’s the 17 years of submission fighting training that I have put in(it’s called effort).Emotionally?I’m a wreck.It’s pretty tough living from job to job and having to help support my wife and 3 kids.Luck?Training your skills has nothing to do with luck,it depends on what you are willing to do.Actually I’ve run into a string of bad luck as of late.My truck keeps breaking down and my buddies and I have yet to figure out the problem.
What my post pretty much came down to is what are you willing to do to make money.Can you buy a used lawn mower and look for lawns to cut?Or is that beneath you?Do you know of anyone that needs help with house cleaning?or is that beneath you?Like I said,it’s all about diversifying your skill set.I’m not trying to dog on anyone, so please-step off.
Goldenfoxx-
I’m with you.I may be a GenXer,but I have been living on my own since I was 14 and I know exactly where you are coming from.One of the first things I learned when I set out on my own is DO NOT get endebted to NO ONE!But most people don’t know that it is a trap and now that trap has sprung.Be proud,man,be proud.
Comments…..
“Everyone wants to live at the expense of the state.
They forget that the state lives at the expense of everyone.”
Frederick Bastiat
Comments…..
“Government is the great fiction through which everybody endeavors to live at the expense of everybody else.” Frederic Bastiat
Comments..
RedGypsy/MadMarkie I, too, saw the waters of the bay recede farther than they ever have before (Tsunami) back in the early nineties, and saw that IT was coming. My solution is much the same. I was an Electrical Engineering tech doing field service for a large medical imaging company (cat scanners, pet scanners, nuclear gamma cameras etc.). I kept my debt load low and when I did get laid off (after coming back from the desert in ’06) I used my 401k and “cash balance” retirement account to pay off all my debts and left myself a nest egg. I also bought lots of gold and silver in the late nineties and have added to it as price and money permit. I don’t owe anyone any money and I am a farmer/homesteader. I grow a lot of my own food, have food storage in place and live in a rural area. I will be the most well fed and UNPRODUCTIVE taxpayer around. Hell, maybe I’ll get some of those “earned income credits” because I’m so poor. I saw this years ago and the people that I tried to “enlighten” as to the tsuanami that was coming, basically told me to G_ F_CK myself, I was nuts. Well, I guess, I’m now one of those “haves” that certain individuals in this blog rant about….very long rants… Now, I’m not rich but I’m not broke. I think the best way to topple the politics in place is to become independently “wealthy” in a back to the farm sort of way so that you and yours have what you need and when the empire builders fall on their ass (by the way there is the word there meaning a location as in ‘over there’ and then there is the word their, denoting possession as in that is ‘their’ car…feel free to use the correct form of the word in your diatribes) because they don’t have and can’t print enough money to maintain their<<<<<denotes possession>>>> charade of government.  I actually love my life now, my own boss, got a tractor, grow stuff, raise chickens, got guns (but I’m not fighting anybody…I was one of them and they will F_ck you up) but I can defend my family, my place and myself. PMs, food and off the grid. HOORAH! Enjoy.
IÂ suspect that “coco puffers” just entered the American lexicon. Nice add GoldenFoxx! :-)Â
Jenny, by reading few of the comments in here I too noticed some sort of “war” in between posters. But I also noticed that it’s not really Americans “killing” Americans, neither work of any “foreigner”. I noticed that the “war” is happening between “red-necks” Americans and the normal more educated Americans. Feel for you guys, what America has turned into!
Comments…..
So Igor, you think that people who acted responsibly in taking care of their personal affairs are red necks? I don’t know what country you are from, but we’ve gone from a working nation to a socialist nation. The people who are still working see that those who aren’t get food stamps and are eating better than they are. They also receive free health care, free housing, free cell phones, and on and on.
When 50% of the people who don’t work and live off of the other 50% who are, and when the 50% who are working decide that they no longer want to support the other 50%, that sir will be end of this country. We are quickly approaching that. The rich are opting to leave and give up their citizenship. The rich here are ready to leave–and all we poor people are left with is a whopping legacy of debt–debt that our fine government gave us.
The PTB have rob the treasury, they will cut and run. And I will use force to keep what I worked my ass off for. Thankfully we still have gun rights in this country but I suspect that will eventually be taken away as well. Choose which side you will be on.
Comments….. TripodXL said:
“I saw this years ago and the people that I tried to “enlighten†as to the tsuanami that was coming, basically told me to G_ F_CK myself, I was nuts. Well, I guess, I’m now one of those “haves†that certain individuals in this blog rant about….very long rants… Now, I’m not rich but I’m not broke. I think the best way to topple the politics in place is to become independently “wealthy†in a back to the farm sort of way so that you and yours have what you need and when the empire builders fall on their ass (by the way there is the word there meaning a location as in ‘over there’ and then there is the word their, denoting possession as in that is ‘their’ car…feel free to use the correct form of the word in your diatribes) because they don’t have and can’t print enough money to maintain their<<<<<denotes possession>>>> charade of government.  I actually love my life now, my own boss, got a tractor, grow stuff, raise chickens, got guns (but I’m not fighting anybody…I was one of them and they will F_ck you up) but I can defend my family, my place and myself. PMs, food and off the grid. HOORAH! Enjoy.”
Sounds like you got it together. Like you, I saw this coming years ago as well. Read a lot of Howard Ruff’s “The Ruff Times” for a long time, and learned from his bits of advice. I’m not rich either, but I think I am in a much better position than most. Debt seems to be the noose around people’s necks. But they did it to themselves. No one forced anyone to run up credit cards, or buy things they could not afford.
It’s every man for himself now, the playing field is being leveled. The money is running out and there’s no more bandaids.
The problem with socialism, is that you eventually run out of other people’s money. Margaret Thatcher
Comments….. try to remember guys, this whole issue of economics isn’t a “one side’ or the other, not a Democratic party, or republican party issue, it’s an issue of the American people against a government who knows exactly what they are doing. There is a reason they have ignored the wuil of the people. they don’t carte what the majority think. they have one issue to deal with, and that is the total control by our fascist, socialist , or whatever you want to call them governemt.
     we the people, as we slept through the last umpteen years, and let these scum bags get control, are now paying the price for our lack of concern. All the people in our government need to be booted out, with the exception of a well noted few. They are all corrupt. But it may be to late to get rid of them through conventional means. I’m not sure we will even have reguular elections anymore. The time bomb is ticking, and I think when it goes off, we may see some change.
     This ongoing argument that pervades this thread about someone being lazy if they can’t find work , is ridiculous. Sure , there are many people that would take a job diggging ditches, or mowing laws if they could get them, but let’s get real. That source of income isn’t going to put food on the table for long, for most Americans. it’s just a stop gap, and a symptom of a much greater problem. There just aren’t enough ‘real” jobs out there to support people on even a meager lifestyle. just putting food on the table, and paying rent and other bills is going to take the creation of a lot more jobs than will be there in the foreseeable future. So no matter how determined a person is, even with a little side job, they are doomed to at least a somewhat long period of time, of pioverty, and all that comes with it.
    get used to this idea–nothing that has been in our lives for the past 30 years is going to be that way agin for a long , long time, if it ever comes back. The agenda driven methods of our government are in a full court press, and they are winning the game. We need a game changer. I see it comimg, but it’s a ways off yet to come.
       every one just has to do what they are able, the best way they can to get by. Things aren’t going to change any time soon. if you think it’s bad now, wait 6 months. The PTB have all the cards right now, but the game isn’t over yet. Some hard fought battles are yet to come, bringing misery to many more. but these battles are necessary to bring the change that has to be made. That’s the long and short of it. Good luck to all, red necks, patriots, tea partyers, nay sayers, we are all in the same sinking boat.
Comments…..
Well said greaseman. It is partly our fault–because we voted the bastards in and now it will be difficult to get them out of here. I hope the American people step up to the plate and do what is necessary. There’s plenty of history in this world that shows people will rise up and take control.
The natural law is at work.
No one is born equal, all are created equal.
Yo Igor ~
You need to watch your mouth there amigo. Where I come from, you would already be out in the parking lot with some big red neck opening up a can of ‘whup-ass’ on your apparently eastern Euro-Trash ass.
For your information, many self described red necks are highly educated people. I’m a red neck with a university degree and an IQ 0f 142 the last time I was tested. So please kiss-off and keep your Lower-Slobovian opinions to yourself.
Red neck home security
HOW TO INSTALL A HOME SECURITY SYSTEM
Â
1. Go to a secondhand store and buy a pair of men’s used size 14-16 work
boots.
Â
2. Place them on your front porch, along with a copy of Guns & Ammo Magazine.
Â
3. Put a few giant dog dishes next to the boots and magazines.
Â
4. Leave a note on your door that reads:
Â
Bubba,
Â
Big’un, Duke, Slim, & I went for more ammo and beer. Be back in an hour.
Don’t mess with the pit bulls – they attacked the mailman this morning and
messed him up bad. I don’t think Killer took part, but it was hard to tell
from all the blood.  Anyway, I locked all four of ’em in the house.
Â
Better wait outside
Â
Cooter
Most of my friends are red necks.
Igor,
If some or all the people in this site can be considered as rednecks, then i’m proud to read their comments, listen to their opinions, and have a conversation with them.
In the days to come, Igor, the only thing you would need will be a companion. No matter redneck, blue-collar, white-shoe or whatever you call him.
You will depend your ass on his skills and knowledge, and so will he.
So please give us a break and go watch some t.v.
Manos
Comments….. As I read, and hear of coments not only on this board, but out in the real world, a couple sayings come to mind. The first one is this–‘If you don’t change the way you do things, why would you ever expect the outcomes to be different”? This applies to everything. As a nation, we keep electing the same crooked basterds to office, and complain when they don’t do what we think they ought to. Example, the health care bill, and the bailouts. These low lifes acted like they were doing us a favor voting for this monstrosity. They showed their true colors. On the other issue, the only people who benefited from the bailouts, were the companies that got bailed out. Is your life any better afteer these blood sucking lowlifes got bailed out with YOUR money??? These so called representatives of ours need to be removed from office in mass. That’s the only way to start a recovery to some sanity. The process will be painfull, because as a nation, we can never pay back the money that has been borrowed and spent. It’s simply not possible. The alternatives are dire at best, and we are all going to get screwed big time. Other than starting from zero, and facing the consequences as we must, I see only misery and hardship ahead. But we can rid ourselves of these leeches in Washington, one way or the other. They need to be got rid of, and never heard from again.
     The other saying that I’m reminded off often, is one I tell my son all the time. It goes, “if you’re gonna be dum, you better be tough”. I have paid the price for dumb actions many tiimes, and as I get older, I hope I have learned something. One thing I do know, if we don’t get those assholes out of Washington, we deserve what we get. I can only hope that we can use a phrase from a Who song, –“we won’t get fooled again”….
If by Red Neck, you mean that I generally work from 7 to 7Â each day in a very White Collar job, but have no sympathy for those that refuse to get off their butts and work for what they want like I do, then Yes I am a Red Neck.
If by Red Neck, you mean that I will take care of my family and close friends through my work and not the “Help” from the Government (everyone else’s tax dollars), then again yes.
If by Red Neck, you mean I can grow my own food and have the ability to protect it when the SHTF, then hell yes.
And as far as uneducated, I fear my friend that you do not understand the difference between knowledge and wisdom. And if you don’t get it, I certainly can’t explain it to you.
Very good comments on this thread, generally speaking. I get the feeling that more fed up people are waking up and finding sites like these to vent and/or share their viewpoints.
NetRanger has touched upon some very important topics, some of which could possibly be the answer to our salvation. Please research the 14th amendment, redemption process, and universal commerce code. You will be amazed at what you may learn.
We have two parties in this country. The incumbents and the challengers. One hopes to be bought and paid for, the other one already is. That is all you need to know for the November elections.
Comments….. Hey guys, stop worrying about labels that are placed on you. To me, you’re either a prepper, or cannon fodder for the PTB,  that are using the natural tendancy of people to put themselves in a group, and pit those groups against each other.
       Concentrate on the problems at hand, and don’t woryy about labels, or figuring out who to blame for the mess we’re in. Everyone will have an opinion on that. I really don’t care if someone believes what I do as long as I can pick up some usefull info from them on how to survive the horror that is to come. And it is coming, make no mistake about it.
   Something else to remember. It takes extra effort and time to worry about what someone thinks of your opinions. In the end, you’re probably not going to change your mind, and neither is the other fella—so don’t waste your time. Concentrate on what you can change for you and your family. make positive steps to protect what you haved saved up and worked for. Take intelligent steps to put food and other preps away for the hard times coming. These are worthy goals for anyone, and are a no lose task. I like those kind of odds. Good luck.
Bad, bad, bad! I bet Igor has already by now arranged to meet with his friends Russian mobs! Cover ur bottoms guys! Get those vicious pitbulls indoors while its still time! Vodka filled mob coming! I can see those heavily loaded carabines shooting already!