Lock and Load: Are You Prepared for Civil Unrest?

by | Oct 17, 2013 | Headline News | 558 comments

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Do you get the feeling that we are right on the verge of chaos?  With the government shutdown, the congressional budget deadline of the 17th, the EBT system under threat, and assorted “drills” that, if history proves to be any guide, could be a loose cover for an upcoming false flag, we could be looking at civil unrest in a matter of days.

These are all situations that we, as individuals, have little control over.

What we CAN control is our response to a crisis.

By planning ahead, we can avoid the fear, panic, and confusion that leads people to rush to the store and clear the shelves like a horde of hungry locusts.  We can stay away from the angry masses, the rioters who will use any excuse to steal, and the hungry people who are determined to feed their kids no matter who stands in their way.

Whether the next few weeks lead to pandemonium due to the welfare strings being cut or some type of martial law, a prepared mindset, a defense plan, and a well-stocked home can help to keep you and your family out of harm’s way.

In her article Anatomy of a Breakdown, Tess Pennington wrote:

“When you take the time to understand how a breakdown behaves and how it progresses, only then can you truly prepare for it.

This glimpse into a systemic breakdown is based on an isolated, limited disaster or event where emergency responders have been deployed. I must emphasize that all bets are off if the event is wide spread, affecting multiple tens of millions of people simultaneously.”

Here are the most vital things that you can do to be prepared for civil unrest.

Get home

In a perfect world, we’d all be home, watching the chaos erupt on TV from the safety of our living rooms.  However, reality says that some of us will be at work, at school, or in the car when unrest occurs.  You need to develop a “get-home” plan for all of the members of your family, based on the most likely places that they will be.

Devise an efficient route for picking up the kids from school.  Be sure that anyone who might be picking up the children already has permission to do so in the school office.

Discuss the plan with older kids – there have been rumors that children could be moved by the schools to a secondary location in the event of a crisis.  Some families have formulated plans for their older kids to leave the school grounds in such an instance and take a designated route home or to another meeting place.

Keep a get-home bag in the trunk of your car in case you have to set out on foot.

Stash some supplies in the bottom of your child’s backpack – water, a snack, any tools that might be useful, and a map.  Be sure your children understand the importance of OPSEC.

Find multiple routes home – map out alternative backroad ways to get home as well as directions if you must go home on foot.

Find hiding places along the way.  If you work or go to school a substantial distance from your home, figure out some places to lay low now, before a crisis situation.  Sometimes staying out of sight is the best way to stay safe.

Avoid groups of people.  It seems that the mob mentality strikes when large groups of people get together.  Often folks who would never ordinarily riot in the streets get swept up by the mass of people who are doing so.

Keep in mind that in many civil disorder situations the authorities are to be avoided every bit as diligently as the angry mobs of looters. Who can forget the scenes of innocent people being pepper sprayed by uniformed thugs in body armor just because they happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time?

Stay home

Once you make your way home or to your bug-out location …. STAY THERE.

By staying home, you are minimizing your risk of being caught in the midst of an angry mob or of sitting in stalled traffic while looters run amok.  In most scenarios you will be far safer at home than you will be in any type of shelter or refuge situation. (Obviously if there is some type of chemical or natural threat in your immediate neighborhood, like a toxic leak, a flood, or a forest fire, the whole situation changes – you must use common sense before hunkering down.)

This is when your preparedness supplies will really pay off. If you are ready for minor medical emergencies and illnesses, a grid down scenario, and a no-comm situation, you will be able to stay safely at home with your family and ride out the crisis in moderate comfort.

Be sure you have a supply of the following:

  • Water
  • Necessary prescription medications
  • Food and an off grid way to cook it
  • Or food that requires no cooking
  • First aid supplies
  • Lighting in the event of a power outage
  • Sanitation supplies (in the event that the municipal water system is unusuable, this would include cleaning supplies and toilet supplies)
  • A way to stay warm in harsh winter weather
  • Over-the-counter medications and/or herbal remedies to treat illnesses at home
  • Survival and first aid manuals (hard copies in case the internet and power grid are down)
  • Alternative communications devices (such as a hand-crank radio) so that you can get updates about the outside world
  • Off-grid entertainment:  arts and craft supplies, puzzles, games, books, crossword or word search puzzles, needlework, journals

Be prepared to defend your home

Sometimes despite our best intentions, the fight comes to us.  Even though we stay home, something about our place draws the attention of an unsavory person or group.  Defense is two-fold.  Your best defense is avoiding the fight altogether. You want to stay under the radar and not draw attention to yourself.  The extent to which you strive to do this should be based on the severity of the unrest in your area. Some of the following recommendations are not necessary in an everyday grid-down scenario, but could save your life in a more extreme civil unrest scenario.

Keep all the doors and windows locked.  Secure sliding doors with a metal bar.  Consider installing decorative gridwork over a door with a large window so that it becomes difficult for someone to smash the glass and reach in to unlock the door.

Put dark plastic over the windows. (Heavy duty garbage bags work well.)  If it’s safe to do so, go outside and check to see if any light escapes from the windows. If your home is the only one on the block that is well-lit, it is a beacon to others.

Don’t answer the door.  Many home invasions start with an innocent-seeming knock at the door to gain access to your house.

Keep cooking smells to a minimum.  If everyone else in the neighborhood is hungry, the meat on your grill will draw people like moths to a flame.

Remember that first responders may be tied up.  If the disorder is widespread, don’t depend on a call to 911 to save you – you must be prepared to save yourself.  Also keep in mind, as mentioned earlier in the article – the cops are not always your friends in these situations.

If, despite your best efforts, your property draws the attention of people with ill intent, you must be ready to defend your family.

Many preppers stockpile weapons and ammunition for just such an event.  When the door of your home is breached, you can be pretty sure the people coming in are not there to make friendly conversation.  Make a plan to greet them with a deterring amount of force.

Have a safe room established for children or other vulnerable family members.

Plan an escape route.  If the odds are against you, devise a way to get your family to safety.

*****

Every civil unrest scenario is different.  You must make a personal plan based on your environment, your neighbors, and the type of situation that triggered the unrest.  By thinking ahead, you’ve already increased your family’s chances at surviving unscathed.


Please feel free to share any pat of this article in part or in full, giving credit to the author and including a link to The Organic Prepper website and the following bio.

Daisy Luther is a freelance writer and editor.  Her website, The Organic Prepper, offers information on healthy prepping, including premium nutritional choices, general wellness and non-tech solutions. You can follow Daisy on Facebook and Twitter, and you can email her at [email protected]

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    558 Comments

    1. SterlingSilver

      Personal responsibility is being vilified by the media and government. Self reliance is being sold as terrorism. Obama WANTs you to react like all those shut out food stamped thieves at Walmart during the EBT shut down earlier this week. Its all about crowd control.

      • European American

        It looks like it’s all boiling down to this simple question. Who here, and across America, is prepared and willing to give their life (if necessary) to put an end, once and for all, to this infectous, toxic, morbid, political/corporate/bankster disease running rampant in America?

        Personally, I’ve never pictured myself as the martyring type, but who knows, maybe someday, very soon, I won’t have a choice in the matter.

        (Note: Talk is cheap. Please, no “Semper Fidelis”, Molon Labe, “from my cold dead hands”, bold bravado. If that was truly the case, guns in the streets would have been doing their “talking”…days, months, years ago.)

        • DRD5508

          Daisy, nice refresher. Your statement ‘Your best defense is avoiding the fight altogether’ is paramount. Also don’t be the aggressor, let others under-estimate you, your defenses, and your resolve to protect and defend.

          • 9er Xray

            DRD5508 – You seem to have wise operational experience. Yes, imperative to avoid firefight since none of us will have backup or a dustoff helo a call sign away.

            Yes, avoid, keep calm, don’t flash your gear, maintain resolve and planning. Wish you were in this eff’d up neighborhood. I am in the midst of the unknowing and the unprepared.

            Best of luck to you and yours.

            • DRD5508

              9er; thank you for the compliment. A little insight for you; I’m a Christian that is in the ministry and employed in the work force. Saying that, I constantly look for the balance of trying to reflect Christ and using military knowledge to keep my family and others safe and secure. Been around the military my whole life and spent 9.5 years of my life over seas. I’ve studied a lot of history and military tactics and seen first hand what does and doesn’t work. This knowledge has helped me in the spiritual warfare as well.
              Personally I wish I could help you opsec your area and teach you how to profile and keep potential foes from being aggressive. Everybody seems to be an expert but on this sight there are some very good and experienced people. They know who they are and they exhibit alot of military sense/experience; to them I say amen brothers and I very rarely feel the need to add anything.
              Now, what most here need to study up on is urban assault tactics by tptb, which is basically new to this country. There are glaring weaknesses in their tactics which I have said in the past ‘experienced personnel will see the weaknesses’. I’d share them but then this sight is monitored.
              Any ways, thanks and May the peace and grace of God be with you and yours.

          • Calgacus

            Daisy or whoever she really is, has to say that since she isn’t a gun owner and doesn’t shoot. Anyone who is a gun owner and is trained wouldn’t write a defense article without talking about defense. This is too overgeneralized to be serious. She’s not the only one though and there are others like her but when face to face with an armed robber or drug crazed zombie she better have some hand to hand combat experience or the chance for survival dropped down to near zero.

            Of course there are ways to defend yourself with firearms and that includes perimeter security and set traps. Everyone thinks about the other guy and even warns “them” but the irony is that they are not often prepared themselves.

            Daisy would be best to stick with the food preps and leave defense to those who understand the subject.

            • JohnFornaro

              I read a lot about the survival/prepping thing, since clearly, there is an inescapable logic to the general advice: “keep your lamps trimmed and burning”. Let me also point out that I already claim more ignorance about any topic than any of you guys.

              Somehow, “Daisy’s” comment didn’t show up for me this morning, so I have to sort of infer as to what she said about “avoiding the fight altogether”. Such a strategy would definitely save more ammo than an alternate strategy. Also, food, energy, damage to the property, as well as the pragmatic aspects of foregoing all that arduous and messy grave digging afterwards.

              Avoiding the fight is a strategy available to the armed as well as the unarmed. It does need to be put into perspective, so that one can prioritize one’s proposed activities. There’s a lot of activities to be prioritized:

              OPSEC is important, food prep is important, electricity, medicine, water, also important. Most of you all are familiar with that pretty long list, of which I highlight only a few items. It seems obvious that any survival plan would depend on a division of labor between members of a group who prefer to survive.

              Avoiding the fight altogether increases your chances of survival, and is more profitable besides. Still, if one is in one place, the fight might be brought home, even tho one would rather avoid that.

              The conclusion? “Daisy” should give heed to the defense experts, and the defense experts should give heed to “Daisy”. I’m suggesting that everyone should listen to one another, particularly if rational discussions are being held.

            • Daisy's Uncle

              Come home Daisy. The meat is on the grill.

        • KY Mom

          Former US Navy SEAL Ben Smith (OathKeeper) says the US government ITSELF is CREATING the conditions necessary to impose martial law here in America.

          http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HDuds14OBiE

          • Peterson

            KFC…. What in the hell does that have to do with the topic at hand?

            • KY Mom

              From the article…

              “Whether the next few weeks lead to pandemonium due to the welfare strings being cut or some type of martial law,…”

            • Got yum yumms?

              Man how dumb are you? It has EVERYTHING to do with the topic at hand. Go back to watching TV.

              • Facebook Page

                We have a high standard here and always stay on topic. Where have you been.

                • hammerhead

                  Always stay on topic ? hahahahaha
                  good article , and i think our next homeland security chief is gonna be a martial law instigator.
                  pay close attention to this asshat when he takes office.

            • Unreconstructed Southron

              Uhhhh…pretty much EVERYTHING, Sherlock.

            • senormechanico

              meant to read it, but clicked the thumbs up by accident.
              Peterson’s an idiot.

            • braveheart

              Peterson troll, back off from Ky Mom.

          • Jack

            All conspiracies are not jut theories. Obama constantly violates the constitution, and he has complained how it restricts him, he has never said he admires it. Obama needs a crises to do so, if he manufactured one who would stop him, the US media or the congress? There is no doubt in my mind that he would invoke the NDAA and declare Marshall law and rule by decree if he could. Harry Reid would go along, as would many of the rest of the Senate Dems.

            • Sigi

              Do you think that his nasty behavior of today is part of trying to create a crisis? H’s going over the top on provocation.

              • BigB

                With out a doubt Sigi. This guy wants a negative reaction for the purpose declaring himself king.

                Hitler had the Jews. Obama has the tea party.

                BigB

                • JohnFornaro

                  Actually, there’s a distinct characteristic of tea perty members that you temporarily overlook. It is a particularly scary issue.

          • nightshiftsucks

            Watch the clip of “is the shut down Bush’s fault ” priceless.After watching that i realize I don’t have nearly enough ammo

            • JohnFornaro

              Bush did deliberately crash the economy in ’08. It’s one of the Bush legacies that Obama is carrying forward with great vigor.

            • Jack Hammer

              That was an eye opener wasn’t it? Those idiots have no idea what is going on around them. None. Those sheeple simply exist to feed, defecate and procreate. They have no other reason to be on this planet. Keep in mind that there are MILLIONS of these low information twits out there who vote “Black” because of their skin color.

          • Babycatcher55

            Doesn’t surprise me a bit…

        • Gonetoolong

          Neither. I still say the play of the day will be a .357 mag or similar. We will lose all day long if we try to go head to head with the military and military-type police forces. Taking on an MRAP, drone, of F-16 would be a very last resort if not suicide. Our fight will be slow and methodical mixed with opportunistic attacks. Up close shots in crowded areas on higher up decision makers is what will be necessary. These grunts do as they are told (at least the ones we have to worry with). Once the decision makers are dead and the troops aren’t getting paychecks, we won’t need to worry about them any longer. We will take out councilmen, mayors, state reps, federal reps, senators, right on up to whoever is available to be had. There will be no safe place for them to show their faces. Is this dirty fighting? you better fucking believe it is. And it will work. It will work a hell of a lot better than Jeronimoing your ass to an early grave. So be smart, figure out who is calling the shots, and eliminate them. Time wise, we have a while. First the SHTF has to take place, survive that and then move to get the damn country back. May even have to take out some of the mainstream media faces that are the mouthpiece of the adminstration. If we are to succeed we will need to fight on many, many different fronts. Hopefully each of us will only need 200 well placed rounds assassin-style when it all goes south. These are the thoughts on my mind these days. How will we realistically straighten things out down the road? Oh yeah, almost forgot, if we can’t win the hearts and minds of the sheep, we are toast anyway. These low information types will have to have a change of heart for us to make a lasting change back to what we once were.

          • Canadian Vet

            Fair fights are for suckers and sporting events. When it comes to life and death, there are no rules. But I have to disagree with your approach. Going straight for those at the top of the totem pole will be tantamount to suicide.

            And if they are surrounded by military types, you won’t even have a chance to level your gun at bad-breath range before you get shredded by his escort. This is where IED tactics come in and a selective targeting of the chain of command. Most Western militaries could operate just fine, if perhaps in a slightly limited fashion. without their officers, but without their NCO’s? They’ll grind to a halt. Middle leadership is what yiu want to cripple to destroy their. I bat effectiveness.

            • Gonetoolong

              Any decision maker should be afraid to come out into the light. If people got this message on a national scale, we could change things. If things get so bad that none of them show their faces, then the entire economy grinds to a halt. No tax income, printing presses mean nothing. Our enormous, inefficient military would have no tax dollars to operate. The machines won’t run themselves and the men behind them will be trying to keep their families alive. It really all boils down to the will of the people. I pray that the will of the people changes once they see the immense failure that will be brought about by lies piled on top of lies, liberalism, and greed that is so prevalent in our government now. Only time will tell.

              • Ender

                ‘One basic truth can be used as a foundation for a mountain of lies, and if we dig down deep enough in the mountain of lies, and bring out that truth, to set it on top of the mountain of lies; the entire mountain of lies will crumble under the weight of that one truth, and there is nothing more devastating to a structure of lies than the revelation of the truth upon which the structure of lies was built, because the shock waves of the revelation of the truth reverberate, and continue to reverberate throughout the Earth for generations to follow, awakening even those people who had no desire to be awakened to the truth.’—Delamer Duverus

                What we will have is an asymmetric war, and since we will (at least at first) be the highly out-manned, out-gunned force we will adapt “touch and go” tactics carried out by highly mobile, extremely fast guerrilla teams of 3 to 10 men. In and out before the enemy even knows whats going on. Your “up close shots at high up decision makers” is nothing short of belligerent suicide. No need to throw your life away trying to waste one piece of shit that will be replaced the next day when you can link arms with 2 or 3 other individuals like yourself and make a much larger wound to the enemy’s infrastructure. The purpose of this type of warfare is to destroy the morale of the soldiers fighting you. If the rats have no-one to do their bidding, they can’t very well implement control over us. Once we remove the support/lifeline of the enemy infrastructure, we can drag these vermin from their holes, and bring them before the American people (whatever is left) for trial and JUSTICE. This accomplishes not only the problem of their presence/control, but also sets history straight across the country and across the world about who the villains WERE and who the patriots ARE, how we (the patriots) fought for our liberty and won (again), and how we, the AMERICAN PEOPLE stand together, free, strong and willing to fight and destroy ANYONE who tries to take our liberty from us, or dares tread on our Constitution. All of this being said, before we can have a proper war, we have to wait for the animals to be out of the way (shtf). We have to let it burn before we can begin to rebuild. So all we have to do is hunker down, survive the collapse, and then we will begin to land critical blows to our enemy and take back what is ours.

                Sua Sponte

                • Slick One

                  The working middle class is what built America and it is being systematically destroyed. The people who are most responsible for this sad fact are the ultra wealthy and the career welfare moochers. This could be remedied in the flowing fashion:
                  #1. CEO’s who have moved production and jobs out of America and into third world countries, must be arrested tried and convicted of economic treason against the people of the United States. All assets of said CEO’s to be seized and applied to the federal deficit.
                  #2. Any company who moved production and jobs out of America and into the third world, may no longer sell their products in the United States.
                  #3. Companies that do not pay a living wage, or allow a standard 40 hour work week, while paying CEO’s 20, 40, 100 million dollar bonuses per yearly quarter shall be closed.
                  #4. Lobbyist shall no longer have jobs, government shall be for the people by the people of America.
                  #5. Banks, Insurance companies and their CEOs who received bailout money shall be required to pay back all monies received at the same interest level they charge credit card customers.
                  #6. Oil companies who have insisted that high oil prices are necessary and good, while creating phoney oil shortages and paying CEO’s 100, 200…million dollar bonuses shall be charged with economic treason against the American people. All assets of said CEO’s to be seized and applied to the federal deficit.
                  #7. Any and all illegal aliens found in the United States shall be charged with economic sabotage, and executed.
                  #8. The entire Southern border of the USA shall be land mined.
                  #9. All foreign aid programs to third world nations shall be terminated.
                  #10. Anchor babies and their mothers shall be charged
                  with economic sabotage, and deported.
                  #11. Any person on AFDC, WIC, Welfare, SNAP, Section 8
                  Housing, SSI disability who has never worked in the country a day in their lives, shall be terminated. Unless a real,severe and provable disability exists.
                  #12 A program to restore the competitive edge of American production shall be implemented, to restore our formerly highest standard of living.
                  #13. EPA, DHS, OSHA and the IRS shall be reduced to
                  1/10 of their previous size.
                  #14. Third world immigration to the United States is to be suspended.
                  #15. CAFTA NAFTA and all other trade agreements that weaken the American economy and its people, shall be declared null and void.

                  What do you think?

                • Gonetoolong

                  We can agree to disagree on some things. I think your little groups of fast 10 men are going to get droned to hell and hunted down. Their technology is not a joke and they have shown little regard for collateral damage. Hiding among the crowds and homes won’t help much with these guys. I feel that it will have to be up close warfare that makes the most difference. 5-30 yard shots in open air on political leaders and figures that are openly hellbent on rewriting the Constituion. Maybe it is suicide, maybe not. Depends on the situation. But there are so many variables as to what Amercian life will be like and how easy/hard the targets are going to be. Right now it would be easy to do. These guys are vulnerable as it stands right now. After SHTF, who knows. But as stated previously, if the country is at that point, there will be no appreciable revenues for them to work from. Hell, right now we are short $1 trillion/year. In reality, I am certain it will take some of your tactics, mixed with some of mine, only nationwide with thousands of patiriots involved.

                • Canadian Vet

                  Asymmetric warfare will be the name of the game. And for those proposes you want small cells with a decentralized command structure. Period. So yes, it means working in small groups of no more than a dozen and maintaining your regular pattern of life as much as possible.

                  And if drones were that effective, why are there successful IED strikes every week in Afghanistan? You warn against underestimating military hardware but you make the other mistake: overestimating its capabilities. A drone can’t strike something they haven’t found yet. And if illiterate Afghan savages can avoid being hit by Predators and Reapers, then educated Americans should have little trouble doing so, assuming they follow some simple OPSEC and COMSEC measures.

                  You call for suicidal direct action. If you are going to go that route, at least consider the use of suicide vehicle-borne IEDs, if only to increase your chance of nailing the target, although the collateral damage will do murder to your public support.

                • Musashi

                  Well said.

                  “All warfare is based on deception” – Sun Tzu

              • Ender

                @gonetoolong,

                Have you heard of Secret Service? They DO NOT fuck around. I’m sorry to say it buddy but you aren’t getting anywhere near these fuckers with ill intent without getting shredded. You might get a round or two off before they canoe your dome but then that all goes back to my original point…FOR WHAT? You take out any of these high priorities and they just get replaced the next day by someone exactly the same or worse AND you are dead and can no longer make a positive difference. We fight smart! NOT stupid. We exploit all weaknesses in our enemy and completely avoid their strengths. Security detail on high priority individuals is MOST DEFINITELY one of their strengths. You’re correct that tech, including drones is an obstacle. Also, it is pretty much definitive from history that during guerrilla warfare, it never works out well for the guerrillas. However, it will be our only way to fight, and our only chance at success, simply due to the fact that we are out-manned and out-gunned. Instead of going out trying to ghost one piece of shit, how about you break them down from the outside, using fear as a weapon to break down morale of their support structure so that sooner or later all you have to do is walk up to them and put one right between their eyes. You WILL make 100 times the difference by linking arms with individuals like yourself and using your brain to conduct smart, well planned, covert ops to strike at the enemy’s weak spots. Do what you want on a personal level, but as a former specialist in this very area of expertise, trust me when I say that your plan is nothing but wasteful suicide. Link arms. Come to UT and fight next to me. We may very well get destroyed in the end but I guarantee you I’m taking A LOT of shit bags with me.

                Sua Sponte

                • Canadian Vet

                  Beg to differ on technology. If illiterate half-savages in Afghanistan can dodge drones and blow up armoured vehicles using extremely advanced counter-IED equipment, then educated Americans can definitely do the exact same.

            • SCTV

              Canadian Vet you are right.
              1st day of hand to hand with fixed bayonets I went perfect form against my TO. Strike parry, block then when I went for the butt-stroke that little SOB kicked me in the nuts.
              Lesson learned.
              Fight to win, not gain points or look good for the ladies.
              And the other thing, most soldiers unlike in Hollywood mistrust all officers except direct CO’s. The actual NCO’s are the lifeblood.
              Co-incidentally my stepson just made Corporal.

          • Agent Provocateur

            I like the way you think

          • william b

            well to start with the miliatry would not go along at least the ones I know would stand for the counstion and government

            • Warren

              William, this is a wrong assumption that most people believe. When the order comes to arrest or fire upon your friends, family, and neighbors, 95% will obey those orders. Why? Because if they don’t they will be fired, arrested, or executed. Everyone around them will obey, and peer pressure works. They will be fed lies that they are patriots killing the evil terrorists, and everyone will cheer them for it.

              How do I know it will work out this way? History proves it. Every time in human history when police / military are ordered to do evil things, they obey their orders. Sorry to break it to you, but when the SHTF, the police and military will be the instruments of tyranny, not freedom, and they will be our enemy.

              • Cocktail

                Warren, you are 50% correct. About half the military will defect if the SHTF. You loose more Americans by the current American way of life in such an environment… paycheck to paycheck living or by their SNAP card payments with no plan if it ever stops.

                Most took an oath to protect the constitution, not to their CO. Many military dudes have common sense, most Americans do not (this is in itself another topic).

                You underestimate the military YOU pay for.

                Respectfully,

                Maj. Cocktail

          • JohnFornaro

            There’s also Shakespeare’s suggestion.

          • Sledge Hammer

            I’ve had the same thoughts as you. Make a list of commies/progressives/liberals in your local county, city and state governments. Look at law enforcement too. How does the police chief stand and the county Sheriff? If they are on the side of the Obamanites then they will have to be removed as well. My thoughts are when the SHTF most anyone in uniform will be a target of opportunity. Sad to say we won’t know good from bad since they will all be wearing uniforms. But, with that said I have to think that these people KNOW they are going to be targets of a corrupt and criminal Regime and to expect it or fight against the Regime. Break out your stashes of weapons and plan accordingly when you are attacked. Also, get the home addresses of all local, state, etc people in power and their relatives home addresses. This should be obvious why. Cut off the snake heads and go after them where they live. It will be one hell of a bloody revolution.

            • Doubtful Dave

              Sledge Hammer: Really, so you have an IDEA, but you’ve done nothing other than ‘think’ about it. If you don’t already know who stands for what in your area at this late hour, then you’re all talk. And now that you’ve ‘spoken’ your mind, you’re a ‘known’ person to TPTB. If you’ve had meaningful military training (combat arms MOS), then you are already a target to be dealt with in the first few hours of WTSHTF. If not, then you’ll be ignored like the rest of the mall ninjas who’ve never had to pull/use a gun on another human being.

          • poorman

            And if you believe that the government is snooping the way it is supposed, you just signed your own death warrant by making such statements on public forums.

        • Tyler Durden

          You’re on point with your sentiments. Too many people still have it cush. You will never see a revolt until a large number of working class are desperate. Nothing shocking here, right?

        • Southpaw

          We all know there is a line that can not be crossed. I imagine when that line is crossed, it will unify the Patriots of this nation in a way that will make the patriotism felt on 9/11 pale in comparison. It will take an event so devastating we will put our squabbles aside and unite. Until then, we will continue to use non-violence. People are waking up. The question is becoming one of time. Can the Patriots turn this country around before the Statists destroy it? This generation of young adults (20-40 year olds) is the last hope. The generation coming up will be dominated in number by government dependent, gun hating, God denying zombies ready to re-write the Constitution and give up all their rights to the benefit of the State.

          • sixpack

            Well, I can’t run recon anymore, but I can pluck the fuck out of chickens and keep the tar pot hot…

            • Facebook Page

              Pluck the fuck. Hmm I must still be on good drugs because that sounds good.

              • sixpack

                LOL, I guess that depends on how you define “pluck”. For me, to “pluck the fuck” out of a chicken means to enthusiastically defeather a bird. Your interpretation sounds like something quite different. That’s okay, at least you’re not brain dead.

        • possee

          European American

          Should civil unrest unravel today,next year,or never in our lifetimes is the proverbial quandary we here experience.

          We see the possibilities and all the right trigger points are in place,yet unlike most other nations, we sit idly by.. consumed by media fueled consumerism and hollywood, sports and political spectacles, and transfixed by palm and wall sized technologies..

          Society has no reason for unrest as all the creature comforts are provided by the state..keeping us safe and nestled in the collective cocoon from those “savages’ and other contrived “threats”across the pond..

          We are inundated and placated and medicated in a soma like stupor where any thought of protest or resistance is nullified..and for those few outside this matrix, the threat of incarceration,detention,bodily harm, or being whisked away into the night hangs ever so heavily in the atmosphere, and increases with every new executive order and legislation enacted.

          The collective either blames the illegals, muslims,welfare recipients,repubs, democrats,or some or all the above for our demise..when all along it is a well oiled and well planned design keeping everyone boxed in their repsective corners while lashing out on twitter,facebook or here on the web..and nothing ever changes..

          They have over 50 million subjugated entirely on state dependence for food and shelter.

          They have literally millions dependent on state/corporate welfare for govt ,and defense related employment.

          They have 10’s,perhaps 100’s, of millions doped up on pharmaceuticals

          They have 10’s of millions “soma’d” into complacency with fluoridated public waters.

          And the rest are fragmented and pigeonholed into the left vs right shell game..

          So what is left for any insurrection or unrest?

          Maybe someone could answer..

          I can not ..

          possee

          The business of self protection and preservation should be an inherent characteristic within us all..

          Sadly this not even close to evident in today’s so called civilized societies.

        • Henry Paine

          The problem is if you don’t put out the cancer worldwide, it will just come back with a vengeance. We need to end the threat so that it will take literal millenia for their corrupt practices to reemerge.

        • Reynaldo

          The best thing to do in the beginning is lay low, take stock of your situation, and survive the initial collapse as best as you can. However, there will come a time for regrouping/rebuilding. Who do you want to be in control of that and wouldn’t you want to be a part of it. It will be a power struggle, and we need as many sheepdogs on ours side as we can get. So unless you’re ok with the NWO one world govt people taking over, you better be prepared to fight for what you want. Liberty does not come cheap, but sure as h3ll is easy to lose.

        • Sam

          How about a simple, “It’s all in God’s hands?” When it comes down to it, it all really is in His hands.

        • Adolf Hiltler Jr

          You said
          (Note: Talk is cheap. Please, no “Semper Fidelis”, Molon Labe, “from my cold dead hands”, bold bravado. If that was truly the case, guns in the streets would have been doing their “talking”…days, months, years ago.)

          I have to ask you.have you ever served in a combat [platoon? or been trained in basic infantry?

          Thanks

      • RICH98

        If it isn’t Crazy Daisy the Canuck telling AMERICANS how to live again.

        Yes… isn’t that perfect.

        Sell the fear, canuck………. sell the fear.

        • KY Mom

          Rich98,

          Get your facts straight! Daisy is an American and lives in America.

          If you don’t like what you read here, go elsewhere.

          • sixpack

            Who cares what he likes, he just needs to keep his word an go away…it IS after October 1st.

          • DocLRRP

            Love it or leave it. Written as a true despot would,\.
            How dare anyone criticize one of us.
            Off with their head!!!!!!!!!!

            So, he is wrong about her country of origin. What does that have to do with his opposition to her treatise??
            What a pompous pain you are.
            “My familt” My family” “Go away if you cannot agree” Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!”

        • Canadian Vet

          I forgot. Only Americans have any ideas worth airing out, right? Everyone else is just a moron who could double or triple his IQ by becoming a US citizen is that it?

          Doesn’t matter where the author is from or where they live, so long as they present accurate information, the best recommendations they know how to offer and a sharp analysis. And besides, sometimes the take of someone who isn’t directly affected allows to give a perspective you are blind to because you are too close to the subject matter.

          • Canada Canuk

            @Canadian Vet…pay no attention to Rich98….govn’t ‘troll’ who for some reason(known only to himself) has it in for Daisy because she spent some time living here in Canada…..Wish she still did!

            Personally I think he or she is just jealous of Daisys’ wisdom….also enveious of her writing for Mac and others!! take care, CC

          • SCTV

            I just want to point this out to you as a retort on a comment that you made the other day.
            http://www.wolverinesupplies.com/products.aspx?searchTerm=barrett+99&v=1
            I know this shop and the guys who run it.
            This is non-restricted, Actually been through the doors on more than one occasion not just on the internet.
            Many firearms have been reclassified or are new models that have been submitted for approval.
            I know that I am being childish but, I feel it is important that people understand what they are legally allowed to do. As a Canadian there is too many rules that we must follow and whenever there is a misconception that restricts what choices we make should we ever feel the want not need for “none of anyone’s business” to purchase something such as an anti-material rifle then why allow it to continue?
            As for the people who think that nothing outside the borders of those United States of America matters,
            Well we watch, we listen, we learn.
            Everything you do affects us indirectly.
            I may be some dumb truck driver who is country poor to boot, but, I see our work drying up because of what is happening down in the States.
            This week our company held most of it’s trucks North of the border because it was afraid that they might lose some of them should the shutdown affect our fuel cards.
            Just talked with a guy who was told by his company that should the shutdown occur he was to drop his trailer and beat feet North.
            Your political situation and financial situation is scaring many people around the world.
            CanadianVet is right in that an outside opinion is sometimes what is required to tell you that you did not get all the snot the 1st time with your kleenex.

            • Canadian Vet

              Interesting. I thought all Barrett rifles were prohib by name. I guess I stand corrected. And they’re even better priced than the single- shot Steyr HS 50. I’m not too proud to admit I was wrong.

      • Jack

        The SNAP EBT fiasco of last week was NOT a screw up as has been claimed, it was a test of human nature, Obama was testing what would happen if the system went down. Perhaps they checking to see if they have hit the critical mass of SNAP EBT dependent people for whom they can pull out the rug, cause the sufficient civil discourse to justify a NDAA declaration. It will be the US equivalent of a Reich-stag Fire.

        Watch what happens towards next fall, especially if it looks like The GOP will take the Senate, look to Obama creating a problem with the food stamp system, this one nation wide and long lasting, and then using EBT riots to raise the false flag and declare enough areas in revolt against the US he can “”Postpone” the US Congressional Elections, and when the term of the current US House expires Obama will rule by executive order, with a Harry Reid controlled rump Senate as a rubber stamp window dressing as was the Roman Senate, declaring it all legal and constitutional at which point the EBT cards will be re charged.

        • Joanie

          Unless he gets Impeached first.

          • Sledge Hammer

            Won’t matter. Impeachment holds no physical power over the president. It won’t make a bit of difference to King Oblamo. None. Impeachment is a civil ruse to make the little people feel like they can do something to a tyrant besides an armed revolt. But, alas the Impeachment of a president means absolutely nothing. If Oblamo was impeached he would say it was another “Phony scandal” and ignore it. Who is going to arrest him? No one.

            • Mr. T

              Sledge Hammer that’s not entirely true. If the House Impeaches Obama, then it’s up to the Senate to have a trial where he can be removed from Office; he can also be sentenced to criminal punishment up to and including imprisonment.

          • Jeff

            Joanie, with all due respect, I think that is wishful thinking. It is NOT going to happen. Antichrist Obama has already committed enough acts to warrent his impeachment. If Clinton’s impeachment is any thing to go by, all the members of the Jackass party are going support him and in the Senate they will all vote NOT guilty regardless of the evidence against him. The MSM will do every thing it can to sway public opinion and sympathy towards antichrist Obama. And I am sure blackmail, bribes and pressure will be put on vulnerable members of the dead elephant party to swing it their way.
            And lets us supose that he does get impeached and refuses to step down? Then what? He can just declare a national state of emergency and make himself dictator. The laws are already on the books. I dont see him ever leaving office.

            • Mr. T

              Impeachment hasn’t happened yet because Libtards still control the Senate and won’t take the final step of removing Oblah-blah. Clinton was impeached by the House, but the Senate refused to take action which is why he was allowed to continue his term until the end.

        • Cameraman

          If the Chocolate Jesus Pulls that Shyte, we are headed for Open Revolt, all bets are off, and the Targets will be Consumed…I would not want to be a Politician, Cop or Alphbet Agency Goon..No Place to Hide the Rath of the Former Middle Class!!!!

          Semper Fi

        • Bill

          The EBT “fiasco” was a warning shot from the FEDS. They were intimidating the House of Representatives, showing them what the real power of the Federal Government is. Don’t doubt for a second that the FEDS will not pull every dirty trick in the book to maintain control.

        • JohnFornaro

          I agree with at least stating the hypothisis that the EBT shutdown may have been deliberate. They’ve had software upgrades before, with no ill effects whatsoever. It’s not inconceivable that the poorly written ACA software is tied into the EBT network at various points, so there may also be an element of unintended software consequences also. Obviously, we’ll never know, due to the arcana of software and all.

          Still, the EBT thing does seem like an intentional test. One of the things which struck me was that in about three hours, the social twittering networks spread the word without any overt signal from the government. Part of an operational test would be to determine, in the chosen market, how quickly would the effects be seen and verified. If one’s governmental philosophy includes never letting a crisis go to waste, it does stand to reason that one would also study the effects of a mini-crisis and remember those results for possible later use. But this is only circumstantial evidence, not proof.

          Remember that there are several governments who actively call for the destruction of the US, and they all are on the lookout for weak points in our networked infrastructure Some of them ping the network regularly in order to cause failure. The hypothesis of an externally induced failure cannot be toitally ruled out, nor can its possibility be admitted by our government either. The overt government stands a lot to lose with massive food riots happening on some other schedule than was conceived of in those secretive factional halls of our goverenment’s power.

          Anyhow. The adage that we are three days away from societal breakdown may need to be compressed, due to the rapidity with which the EBT breakdown spread.

      • JustMe

        Good article, Daisy.

        I’d wager not much will happen any time soon, though. Most people are too thoroughly distracted. It will take everything going down for an extended period, before most people will even look up.

      • omegaman

        So what if he does? Does that change anything at all?!

      • snowman

        in regards to the EBT situation this past weekend. a friend of mine whom i have been trying to convince that things are going to get bad and that he needs to take precautions to protect himself and his family was at our local Walmart when this ebt thing went down.He came to my house and said that now he is convinced and he wanted me to take him to our gun dealer to buy some guns and ammo lol.while driving there he related to me how he thought i was a nut but not now he wants to know all he can about getting prepared.I told him it is late in the game but now is better than never. He has also told others like himself and now they have finally opened up their eyes. One other thing,i told him to check out this site because you guys have great info for people

      • Anonymous

        One thing I always do when possible– find in advance what piece of furniture, stick or whatever– will make a “bloc” to prevent anyone entering the front door. (Or back door if you have one!). What I’m referring to is a wedge. If there is a large, heavy item placed in between the door and the wall, there is no way in hell anyone can enter, no matter how strong they are because they’d have to push the wall down to enter! Its the same principle as having the bar in the window or patio door. Make a wedge!

        Also, you can get some very dark sheets (dark blue) to put up at night (over windows) so no one can see inside. Or use pexiglass (like what’s put over car windows temporarily) so you can see out but they can’t see inside!

    2. Outlaw

      If you could choose only one rifle would you choose 5.56 or .308?

      • incognito

        5.56

        • OutWest

          Outlaw

          Pick a .308 of your choice, and never look back.
          I have an M1A, a finer battle rifle never made.

          • DRD5508

            OutWest, same here or a 7.62.

            • Night breaker

              Same .308 / 7.62 cal (M1A. PTR91) good all round caliber , good penetration on vehicles and cover .A little heavy on load out but the trade off is better terminal ballistics.

              III%

              Semper Fi 8541

              • jerrytbg

                Hands down .308

                • Calgacus

                  Ditto

          • Horse'sass

            The M1A is like a trusted spouse. Maybe not the sexiest looking or ltest, greatest thing on the gun market, but it will be there for you. Always. Rugged, reliable, hard hitting. Like the article years ago said: “Make mine an M1A”.

            • Cameraman

              M1A All the Way…
              Semper Fi

              • Chris45

                Does an M1 qualify ?

          • Outlaw

            Almost purchased a Remington 700 from a private party a week before the ammo run began. Called a day after it started and surprise, surprise it was sold. Still kicking myself in the ass over that. The reason I am posing the question is because I have got the other 2A depts covered. It is going to be a big stretch for me to budget in a rifle at this point. I can find the 5.56 locally, but the .308 is still a little harder to come by, and a lot more expensive. I figure I could stock a little more ammo w/ the 5.56. I am essentially wanting it for “the big battle” plus I would like it to fill-in for a hunting rifle. I would prefer the .308, but just not sure I can afford the rifle and a reasonable amount of ammo to go with it. Perhaps I should just wait it out a little longer and maybe pick one up after “the big battle” begins? if you know what I mean… I just keep thinking back to the bible verse about selling your cloak and buying a sword.

            • braveheart

              Outlaw, when the big battle comes there will be all kinds of weapons laying around for the taking. Grabbing some extra weapons, mags and ammo for same won’t hurt anything.

            • braveheart

              outlaw, when the big battle comes, there will be all kinds of weapons laying around for the taking. Extra weapons along with mags and ammo for same would be prudent.

            • MadMarkie

              Outlaw –

              Take a serious look at the AK-47; 7.62 x 39. A quality AK is still around $500 and the ammo is a lot less than 7.62 x 51 or the 5.56. Most of your ‘action’ is going to be at less than 100 yards.

              There are still adjustable rear sights of East
              German manufacture available for a reasonable price that make the rifle much easier to zero. Otherwise get a Tapco front sight adjustment tool; the cheaper ones break all too easily.

              Enjoy your new friend.

              • John Q. Public

                Since Outlaw already has a 5.56 NATO, adding an AK only adds another caliber to stock without significantly increasing his range or lethality.

                If he is going to stock a second caliber at all, he should choose something that gives him capability lacking in his 5.56.

                • MadMarkie

                  Sorry John, I was under the impression that Outlaw was looking to buy his first rifle and wondering whether to choose .223/5.56 or 7.62/.308. My mistake,

                • John Q. Public

                  Indeed, MadMarkie, the reliability of the AK rifles and their inexpensive ammo are strong points in their favor.

                • Outlaw

                  MadMarkie, you were correct. Thank you both for the input though, much appreciated!

                • At the end of the world

                  Outlaw since you already a ar platform ,look into a 308 upper. That what I plan for my Stag.

              • BfreeAmerica

                ^^^Agreed, AK47(7.62×39) Russia, China, N. Korea and pretty much the rest of the world outside US and Nato use this ammo. U.S. and Nato use 5.56 rounds. Choose your rounds wisely. IF a Red Dawn scenario happens you may want to be able to fire what the bad guys bring w/em. Just my .02cents worth. An AK is considered one of the most indestructible weapons available.

                Not knocking the AR platform, I have one of those as well but if I had to pick one Its an AK

                • Kevin2

                  As someone once said, “If I could chose any weapon if I was stranded on an alien planet it would be an AK-47”. I think of an AK as being a handy high capacity M1. From a design perspective that’s pretty correct.

                  In reality a simple Model 92 lever action along with a pump 12 gauge and a high capacity handgun your comfortable carrying all the time would be sufficient. Given the realities of life I would prefer having a J Frame Smith with me than a 1911 in the nightstand at home.

                  The above being said the best defense is to have distance from danger, shelter and provisions.

            • MadMarkie

              Outlaw –

              Take a serious look at the AK-47; 7.62 x 39. A quality AK is still around $500 and the ammo is a lot less than 7.62 x 51 or the 5.56. Most of your ‘action’ is going to be at less than 100 yards.

              There are still adjustable rear sights of East
              German manufacture available for a reasonable price that make the rifle much easier to zero. Otherwise get a Tapco front sight adjustment tool; the cheaper ones break all too easily.

              Enjoy your new friend.

            • MadMarkie

              Outlaw –

              Take a serious look at the AK-47; 7.62 x 39. A quality AK is still around $500 and the ammo is a lot less than 7.62 x 51 or the 5.56. Most of your ‘action’ is going to be at less than 100 yards.

              There are still adjustable rear sights of East
              German manufacture available for a reasonable price that make the rifle much easier to zero. Otherwise get a Tapco front sight adjustment tool; the cheaper ones break all too easily.

              Enjoy your new friend.

              • MadMarkie

                Sorry amigos; I have absolutely NO idea how the double post occurred.

            • Kulafarmer

              Outlaw,
              They are tools, as such they both have a particular task they accomplish better,
              The 5.56 is handy, light,
              The 7.62, more horsepower
              Its like the difference between a Tacoma and a F150
              The good thing about the .308 is whatever you hit is a lot less likely to get back up!
              Personally i prefer the .308 still knock the legs out from under something at 300-600 yds
              But the ammo is heavy
              I really dont want to be playing Rambo
              Would rather reach out and touch someone, that said a .308 AR platform with proper brake and weight to it will be better than a bolt gun because you can take follow up shots way faster, plus if you are in a fire fight you can actually hold your own rather than fidgeting around with a bolt rifle,
              If you are partial to bolt guns the Ruger Gunsight Scout is excellent because it at least has a 10 round detachable mag, can reload faster by just swapping mags,
              Its also unter 1k whereas a real good ar platform 308 will be from 1500 on up.

              • wildman

                Kula you need to check into the 5r 308 from remington. the accuracy is really impressive( 3 rnds in the pepsi logo at 300 yds) its a little pricey at a 1000. but wowee zowee it sure is fun to shoot.1000 yds no problem for that pop em an drop em attitude. with mine if there is more than 1 ragged hole it means i was shakin so have fun with it i know i do wildman out

                • Kulafarmer

                  I have a LWRC REPR
                  Really like it

            • laeagle

              You can’t go wrong with either calibers but there is a reason the 5.56 is one of the favorites around the world. You can carry more ammo, it does the job, and the weapon has been found to be tried and true, it is well crafted, parts are available, and it is rugged. Go for it!

            • Poor Boy

              Outlaw,

              If you have a Gander Mountain near you go and pick up a Mosin Nagant. They sell them for around $180 and the ammo (7.62×54) is about $12 a box. They are old rifles, but I picked one up and do not regret the purchase. It’s a cheap effective rifle that you can buy tul spam cans of ammo for, if you’re good about cleaning because of the acidity, that has plenty of punch.

            • Got yum yumms?

              Make sure you have a silent compound bow. Why? At night… during martial law….you’ll need meat. SO… you take to the backyards and hunt rabbits, squirrels and any small game you can find.

              Also.. if we get invaded by the “UN peacekeepers” from Russia and China.
              Nice and quiet for homeland defense.

            • Mr. T

              Never overlook the other 7.62 option in the 30.06….slightly more power than the .308 and more versatility in available type rounds.

          • mclovin

            I say operate in a 3-man team if possible. 2 carry 5.56 semi able to lay down suppressive fire for the 3rd man with the 308 to get the kill shots

          • socmarine87

            We are still using them in battle to this day. No arguments there. They are a fine weapon.

          • Spook89

            Don’t have to…got several of each.

        • socmarine87

          7.62/.308. It stops, it penetrates barriers etc. I have a lot of time behind a 7.62×51 and not range time. Do it.

          • Kulafarmer

            What kind of optics have you been using? Just curious what is the standard for a 308 battle rifle,

      • Mike the Gardener

        a shotgun … you don’t have to be accurate

        • OutWest

          Daisy, your best article yet.
          Short, concise, and very relevant.

          • jerrytbg

            Same reasons I suggested Mac call her…

            I still don’t understand why I was demonized for it…

        • Ga Doc

          Also less likely to penetrate your target and several walls beyond it into other rooms.

        • CB

          You don’t have to be accurate? Are you kidding me?!?!

          Its people like you that give responsible firearm owners a bad name and inexperienced people bad information.

          Keep your bad, stupid, information to yourself. It could save a life!!!

        • Red Leader

          A shotgun is a very poor choice for the “one gun” It is a very short range weapon with low ammo capacity has brutal recoil with 00 Buck and Slugs, and is very slow and difficult to reload under stress. In the time it takes you to reload one shotgun shell into your fixed magazine, you could reload a 30 round magazine into your AR or AK.

          If you only have a shotgun the bad guys can pepper your location with AK, AR or M1A fire while safely out of range of your shotgun and wear you down even if they don’t hit you. With a high capicity rifle both you and the bad guys can fire and manuever (cover fire)

          I was involved in extensive testing of OO Buck and Slugs on vehicle windshields and they skipped off the windshield the majority of the time. They work great on side windows though. .223 tended to fragment and .308 was the most reliable for penetration. For side door penetration shotgun rounds did not penetrate and .223 rounds penetrated in fragments with little penetration of the plywood we had set up inside of the doors. The .308 went through both side doors and kept going. The cars were heavy American vehicles. I bet the shotgun and .223 would do well against gang members in a Prius though!

          My wife fell in love with her AR after the first lesson. She is 5’7″ and 115 pounds. She wants nothing to do with the shotgun.

          When it comes to .223 or .308 question, it is not black and white. You can carry twice the number of .223/5.56 X45 ammo as .308/7.62X51. The .223 and 7.62X39 platforms are much lighter to carry and are much faster to get on target in CQB fighting.

          The .308 has twice the range as the .223 and several times the penetration as the .223. If you are in an urban or suburban setting I would chose the AR/AK platforms. If you want to take our vehicles a distance from your front gate, the M1A/AR-10 platforms would be best. I have both .223, .308 and a shotguns, they all have their place.

          • Outlaw

            Thank you Red Leader, very helpful info you have provided. Definitely makes me think. I sure wish I could pick up a 5.56 and a .308 plus ammo to go along, but that is not gonna happen right now. I guess its part of the reason I don’t already have one. Its hard to choose knowing that there is no “one choice”. I am looking to cover all the scenarios described above and know I cannot with only one and unfortunately it will be a stretch for me to even get one.

            • JustAnotherBubba

              I was shooting steel plates at 500 yds with my LR-308 last week and the guy next to me was shooting a AR-15.

              He was ringing the plate and screwing 62 grain penetrators almost through mild steel 3/8″ . That showed plenty of energy to kill at that range. Don’t sell 5.56 short.

              I do agree that penetrating cover and shooting at over 500 yds. is the job of the big boys like .308, 30-06 and.300 Win Mag.

            • me

              I disagree, A shotgun is the best choice, there will be no long range shots in an economic collapse, everything will be up close and personal, A single barrel shot gun will be one of the best weapons you could have, you just have to stock up on primers, the shells can be loaded with black powder several times , even home made powder if everything else is gone. you could load the shell with glass, pebbles, lead if you can get it ect. one shot, wound five and it doesn’t take much of a would to put someone out of action.

              • me

                I love all the negs, it shows me that there will not be very many smart people to deal with, just paranoid idiots that have been watching too much TV

          • John Q. Public

            Out to about 100-150 meters (depending on barrel length/velocity) on soft targets 5.56 NATO and 7.62 NATO have about the same terminal effectiveness, approximately the same wounding potential.

            On hardened targets and at longer distances the 7.62 NATO takes the lead. Also, at longer distances only the highest quality sub-minute-of-angle (read “$$$$”) semi autos with high quality ammunition (read “more $$$$”) will reliably put rounds on target. You can also buy specialty ammo, including AP, API, and APIT.

            If you can’t hit your target, none of that matters.

            If you are a decent marksman and you practice, the “pass through” problem is considerably diminished—not eliminated, but diminished.

          • Kulafarmer

            I want to get a .338 Lapua for that long distance stuff,
            Savage makes the 11/111 long range hunter, costs just under 1k
            Will punch holes in 1/2″ mild steel at 1200 yds
            Now thats a smackdown!

            • Night breaker

              Kula,
              My LGS has the new Colt Tactical precision rifle in .338 Lapua Magnum. Big Price but one heck of a rifle! It’s relatively new , modern and definitely high speed looking.
              I think it could give an Accuracy international a run for its money for the reach out and touch capability.

              III%

              Semper Fi 8541

              • Kulafarmer

                I gotta check that out, cool beans!

                • sixpack

                  I have a chance to learn how to repair SAs, and I don’t mean just installing store-bought replacement parts. The catch is, I have to supply my own “fixer-uppers”. I don’t even care if they even work, as long as they’re very cheap and not stolen (or bent into a pretzel).

                  Any Comments?

            • John Q. Public

              It is the cost of ammunition and/or reloading components that makes .338 LM so expensive to shoot.

              Highest quality factory ammunition (e.g., Lapua or Applied Ballistics) will set you back about $7/round. Reloading will save money over factory ammo, but even so, the components are still expensive. You will only get about 70 rounds for each pound of powder and the preferred Retumbo and H1000 powders are in very short supply.

              • John Q. Public

                I should also mention that, depending on how much you hot rod your loads, barrel life can be an issue with .338 LM (and 7mm WSSM), as little as 3,000 rounds (sometimes only a few hundred rounds with the 7mm WSSM) if you want to maintain 0.25 moa XLR accuracy. Barrel life is no issue if you will settle for 2 moa accuracy after thousands of rounds 🙁

                That is a good reason to consider the DTA SRS A1. Changing barrels or calibers requires only a simple swap of a barrel (and sometimes a bolt) without any gunsmithing necessary. Four properly torque-wrenched bolts and a lock bolt—off and on in less than 1 minute, accuracy and point of impact preserved.

                Further, you need to buy only one quality optic and clip-on NVD for your DTA chassis. A huge cost savings for a high-quality multi-caliber system.

                • lastmanstanding

                  At my age, I am very happy with 2 MOA…hell hitting a pie plate at any distance is awesome with me and would terminal in most cases…

                  Especially when the follow-up from my FN AR is in that same pie plate.

          • dfisherman

            @ RED LEADER; thanks for that info as it cleared up some questions I had concerning firepower vs quantity cause you need both in knockdown and speed of shots.

        • Outlaw

          Got the shotgun dept covered.

        • Old Gringo

          Shotgun for home defense is imperative. Less chance of colateral damage to neighbors. I’m partial to the Mossberg 930 SPX. Semi-auto, 8 shots, double ought.
          Puts out a lot of deterent in minimal time.

          • BackSpace

            “collateral damage to neighbors” is what worries me..

            Some Rambo wanna be shootin at the thugs putting rifle rounds thru my windows and walls cuz they have not been properly trained with such weaponry… add panic, adrenlin rush… Ppl just think b4 you shoot!!!

            BS

          • apache54

            OLD GRINGO
            you have it correct my friend a shotgun is as necessary as a long range rifle, people who know how to protect them selves understand, and then there are those WHO think they know, every weapon has it’s use and place, me i like a CHEY TAC M-200, NOW there is gun that reaches out and touches someone!!
            if you don’t know about it look on youtube,

            • Kulafarmer

              That is a badass rifle,

        • John Q. Public

          I have spent much range time disabusing people of the “can’t miss with a shotgun” notion.

          If you don’t practice, you CAN miss—even at across-the-room distances.

          No firearm is a magic amulet that protects you by its mere existence in your home.

          If you want to save your and your family’s lives, treat firearms as tool that require diligent practice and maintenance.

        • nightshiftsucks

          You don’t have to aim ? Have you been to the range lately,what are your spreads ?

          • sixpack

            I think most bad guys will want to evacuate the area, if it looks even remotely like a shotgun is pointed in their general direction. If the bad guy is some crazed, deranged murderer, you’ll have to drop him no matter what you’ve got in your hands. Be prepared to do so.

            Most people who find themselves on the business end of any gun, don’t stand there debating the ballistic capabilities of the weapon trained on them. At that point, the only thing that matters is the possibility of having a third eye popped in the middle of their forehead…at that moment, caliber is irrelevant to them.

            I think we give crazed madmen too much credit for thinking.

        • Barn Cat

          A great weapon to use to fire multiple shots accurately into an intruder. We have a couple of Mossberg Bantams that hold 5 shots each.

        • wrong

          You best stay in the garden my friend.

        • Mark

          That’s a funny digression, Mike. You gave me the courage to say that I’d prefer my .300 Win Mag. Hell on Trans-Pecos mule deer, better ballistics than any of the other magnum calibers, “has dominated .30-caliber, 1,000 yard shooting at the NRA’s annual Camp Perry matches” (Maj. Plaster in “The Ultimate Sniper”), and my friend since sixth grade has until very recently hunted with nothing other than a .300 WinMag.
          “It’s the Big Shooter(tm)”.
          😉

          • OutWest

            Wrong, I don’t know as I would want to
            be eating any of his produce either.
            The holes in the cabbages may not be
            from the bugs.

            • sixpack

              Well, at least he can hit SOMETHING…

      • Ronald

        If you could only have one? Well if your locked in a room with a pissed off bear and you can pick one 223 or 7.62×51 which one do you pick?

        • braveheart

          Outlaw, Mike, and Ronald, I do have some variety in my “ventilation team. Different calibers for different situations.

        • DRD5508

          Ronald, actually the choice is which do you have the most confidence in and is the most versatile? Me, I feel most comfy with my 30-30 and my AK. Coming through my door, I’ll grab, instinctively, my .357 and have my wife use the AK. As she’ll have 4 additional mags, out comes my 30-30; which we’ve discussed already. Which is to have one of us constantly able to keep firing while the other reloads or rearms.

          • DRD5508

            Don’t forget, most of our weapons usage will be very short range and mostly around the doors and windows of our houses. If you all have gas coming into the house, shield the fittings/pipes with plating and turn in off inside the house, if time permits

            • Mark

              That’s a great hint, DRD5508. Shielding the gas pipes. Makes me start thinking of other things that could be penetrated, like propane canisters or the water heater. Or, of course, the next door neighbor’s water-bed!

              • me

                if things are or get so bad that there’s shooting in and around houses, there will be no gas, all luxuries will be long gone.

          • Ronald

            Actually he asked which one. I’ve got others too (something like 43) but no 223/556 I prefer 7.62×39 (5)7.62×51 (3) ballisticaly identical to your 30-30.

        • RickE.

          Ronald, I would pick the 7.62×51, as it’s excellent for sniper purposes and/or hunting.
          A MosinNagant with the 7.62x54mm is excellent as well, with almost as much penetration power as a 30.06.

          • DRD5508

            Got a Mosin Nagant also and agree with you on that.

        • My opinion

          Could I chose the Saiga 12 Gauge Semi-Automatic Shotgun?

          I could throw a serious amount of lead in his direction, then run in the opposite direction.

        • Smokey

          I pick the lock and get out!

        • sixpack

          “If you could only have one? Well if your locked in a room with a pissed off bear and you can pick one 223 or 7.62×51 which one do you pick?”

          —an open door or window at close range…

          • sixpack

            I guess people don’t like the idea that the bear is trapped too, and that isn’t a good justification to kill him. I’d rather free both of us and go our separate ways. Killing is never my FIRST choice.

      • capitalist eric

        .308. Bolt-action AND semiautomatic. Use interchangeable ammo as much as possible.

        • John Q. Public

          You have to balance that advice with the need to cover different “mission statements.” For example, having two .308’s won’t help you with that 2,000 meter shot. Having a .338 Lapua or .375 CheyTac or .50 BMG fills a niche that the .308 can’t fill.

          There is much to be said for the newer high accuracy systems using interchangeable barrels. One of many possible examples:
          http://www.deserttacticalarms.com/guns/precision-rifles/dta-srs-sniper-rifle-chassis.html

          That said, there is no shortage of arm chair marksmen who cannot take meaningful advantage of such XLR (extreme long range) accuracy, because they have neither training nor practice.

          Then there is the matter of optics, including a variety of NVDs. Yes read “even more $$$$.”

          • Kulafarmer

            Well said, thats where im at, most of my shots with my REPR or my bolt gun (both .308s) are pigs or deer and generally right around 100-120 yards, all of the rifles can shoot way better than i can. Always hesitate with the longer range shots ant try to sneak up, dont want to just wound the animal and have them run off, want to drop em and dress em.

      • Magnix

        .308 is awesome!

      • VRF

        I can carry way more 223/5.56 than I can 308

        308 has more range and knock down power

        tuff choice, both will have their day..and it might be sooner then you think

        • SterlingSilver

          True, you can carry more 5.56. But with 7.62×51, you won’t need that much.

        • p.o.'d in colo.

          To me, it’s a matter of need. The 5.56 is better suited for short-range multiple threats, while the .308 packs a bigger punch and is more effective at long range.
          In certain situations I’d instinctivly reach for the AR, while in others the .308 would have to be preferred. Neither are as useful as they could be without training, and either is better than nothing.

          Around here (western Colo.), SKS’ can still be had for $280-$300. Of course we’re limited to 15 rd mags now, but I hardly noticed. New laws did not impact me.

          • WaitingForTheStorm

            I’m partial to the 300 AAC Blackout (7.62×35) – more punch than the 5.56, yet lighter than the AK round with roughly the same ballistics. Actually, you can have both by getting a 5.56 upper and a 300 upper and swap them as needed (they both use the same magazine).

            Of course, with the ammo situation, you’ll probably have to do what I did and make your own.

      • KY Mom

        Daisy,

        These are all good suggestions to get home safely and to stay safe.

        For the women (and men for the women in your life – wife, daughters, mother, etc.), make sure you have sensible walking shoes and socks in your backpack or trunk. I can’t imagine walking a long distance on rough terrain in high heels.

        • YH

          KY Mom,

          In defense of high heels (only when worn by the opposite sex), they can be used as very effective improvised weapons if push comes to shove. No pun intended.

          Not to mention, as a man, they have a very positive effect on my morale when in visual range 🙂

          • KY Mom

            YH,

            LOL! I guess I should have worded that differently. 🙂

            What I meant was for men to remind the women in their life to have some walking shoes and extra socks handy.

            Take care!
            KY Mom

            • YH

              KY Mom,

              You can’t go wrong with socks and comfortable walking shoes, but pack the high heels…just in case 🙂

        • anonymous

          KY. You really need to get a brain or eat some more grape jelly.

          • KY Mom

            I have a brain.

            Hope you have a great day too!

      • CWinOR

        So here starts a Ford/Chevy argument. I have both- but if I had to leave one behind, it would probably be the .308 that got left. Ballistics aside, if you place your shot correctly, the 5.56 will more than do the job, especially with the right bullet. I have the .308 for my “reach-out and touch someone” rifle, but my M-4geries are more multi-purpose.

      • SterlingSilver

        With only one choice, I’ll run with the .308

      • CrabbeNebulae

        .308 w/20 rd mags

      • AZ Ready

        Ruger 10-22

      • YH

        Outlaw,

        Hands down .308 Winchester or 7.62x51mm. If can bring down any game animal in North America, I have full confidence in it’s stopping power on a drug induced, dangerous, and highly motivated human threat.

      • Sgt. Dale

        Outlaw
        308. more range more knock down power.

        • braveheart

          M1 Carbine, .30 with 30-round mags.

          • Sgt. Dale

            Braveheart
            30 carbine is a great little round. My father told me that the N Koreans would fill their uniforms with tons of new paper and the rounds would hit them. The round worked great against the pacific theater, and against the Germans. I like it and have two rifles, and forgot to put it on my list. Damn that is two I forgot.

            • Smokey

              I’ve heard a lot of stories about the .30 carbine round bouncing off frozen or padded Chinese uniforms in Korea. A veteran told me the stories were mainly twaddle, shot placement was the issue, not the round itself.

              • REB

                Shooting .30 carbine(hardball) awhile back and it was going completely through at least 18″ of maple…told my uncle it wouldn’t do to hide behind a tree that wasn’t a couple feet thick, eh,it suprised me…impressive little round…incidently we were sniping woodchucks at 250 yards plus with a .17 bolt action scoped rifle with deadly results and no problems…another neat little round… 🙂

                • Kevin2

                  The 30 carbine out penetrates ball .223 because the heaver bullet does not break up or tumble. It also has less hydraulic shock and less stopping power. A 30 carbine exceed’s a .357 magnum when one looks at projectile weight and velocity. The difference in diameter is insignificant. 30 carbine ball ammo is the problem as its shape creates a “clean” wound.

                  The 30 carbine served Audie Murphy very well.

        • wildman

          Sgt Dale i have a 45/70 govt with a 36 in barrel that produces the best at long range plus the sound of the bullet coming so slow is really impressive. it also killed 1 hell of alot of buffalo. so i stick with what works for me. we have alot more toys. but ya never can tell when or where the threat is gonna come from so stay locked an loaded. time for some blackberry pie wildman out

      • Shootit

        That’s a loaded question. Bolt action, semi-auto? .308 gets my vote in both cases.

      • Mountain Trekker

        I love both, the 223 and the 308. We may not like the Government, but you can bet your last dollar, duh, you may not have to because the Gov. has already took it, but the military spent a lot of it doing test and research on the best ammo for war, so I think maybe the 223 would be the best.I personally would feel secure we either.Trekker Out. Run and Gun 223 Hold the Fort 308!

        • Shootit

          The answer to the question? .223 or .308 There is not a gun that will do it all….yet. The Best answer to that question I have ever herd was to get one gun and practice, practice, practice. Get to know your weapon and it will serve you. As you can see from all the opinions above there are many options and all of them are good options to defend your family and friends.

          The following are my reasons I have guns in both calibers. They both are military, popular, accurate, easy to reload, and each serve a purpose. .223 is good for stuff up to small deer out to 300 yrds. .308 is good on anything to 500 yrds. I dropped a large Elk at 300 yrds with a hand loaded .308/165 gr Nosler Partition. That combination .308/165gr gives me confidence to take on any wild game in North America.

          Bottom line. Find a gun you love and become proficient with that weapon.

      • RICH98

        OUTLAW…. only one? 18 inch .308. SA Scout Squad.
        Good longer range than .556 and thru armour better.
        Heavy but worth it.

      • Indy Colts

        7.62 x 39

      • Indy Colts

        Outlaw go to youtube and look at the balistics of a 7.62 x 39 steel core. It seen one video where it went clear through 1/2″ steel and then another 5 inches into the stump. I see value in 5.56 and 3.08 but when SHTF I will have my saiga and my wife will have the AR. I would love an AR 15 though

        • Indy Colts

          Love an AR 10 not 15…. Hell I love anything that goes bang

          • Kulafarmer

            Check out LWRC REPR
            Smooth!

        • CWinOR

          So many of these tests are conducted with milsurp ammo, which is meant for WOUNDING potential, and is intended to be more “humane” than say a good hunting bullet. You’re never gonna have one bullet that does the best job at putting down a critter (2 or four legged) AND penetrating armor. using the steel core bullet example above- while it may perform well at penetration, the same traits that allow it to have great penetration also make it a lousy “manstopper”. Point being, whatever your platform, whether it’s a .308, .223/5.56 or 7.62×39, using just milsurp FMJ’s are not going to yield the best results for stopping a person without body armor. They’ll do what they’re designed to do best, which is typically poke a hole through the person and keep on going, and largely wasting their energy. For every caliber you have, when possible- try to have a variety of different loads if possible. For .223 for instance, I’ve got everything from 64 grn. Sierra Gamekings to 75 gr. Hornady OTM’s. for .308, 165 grn. SGK’s and 169 grn. OTM’s (open tipped match- but alot of ppl call them hollow points by mistake). Point being- you can be shooting the “best” caliber there is, but if you don’t A) connect with your target where it counts, and/or B)use the right bullet for the situation/target, then you’re just losing potential. There’s no substitute for trigger time. Some guy with a 30 year old AK with lots of experience is more dangerous than a newb with a fancy $2k AR and all the bling. train and outfit for your most likely to be encountered SHTF scenarios.

      • jim in Va.

        Best one is the one you have right now.

        • John Q. Public

          …if you practice with it!

      • Paranoid

        Close in city, mobs, alone, moving: No doubt 5.56, lower recoil, lighter ammo, lighter rifle; lots of advantages. Out in the more open country, with others. 308. There is no perfect Round. If there were we wouldn’t have all of them. Just like what’s the best vehicle. Not the same one if you wish to race at Indy or deliver cement.

        • Kulafarmer

          You mean there is no such thing as a formula 1 readymix truck?
          Ohh the injustice!

          Hehehe

      • Jeff

        Does it really matter? That magic round exists only in the minds of the fantasy scribblers. There are pros and cons for any round you could mention. My thoughts on the topic for what it is worth and I could be wrong.

        I will assume that the reader has or will do his reading on the topic. Just pick a rifle and or round that meets your needs and can afford. IF all you can afford is a surplus Mosin-Nagant then so be it. Learn how to use it and be damn good at it. Buy all the ammo and “stuff” you can afford. Remember a runt of a Finn using only a standard issue rifle made a lot of dead bad guys when his country was invaded.

        If you can afford a state of the art high end with all the cool stuff to on it AR platform rifle and 10,000 rounds to go with it, then more power to you.

        Just be good with what you have. Personally I think this or the other situation is stupid. Get both. BTW, when the S does HTF, I suspect there will be opportunities to “pick-up” a AR platform rifle as said owner will no longer be needing it (and maybe a few other items).

        • John Q. Public

          Indeed! Simo Häyhä made serious account of himself and his explanation for his success was not his equipment, but “Practice!

      • Hammerun

        5.56
        7.62 x 39
        7.62 x 51
        7.62 x 54
        All go the above!!

      • Patriot Man

        .308, does double duty as long range kill + tail rotor shredder for incoming.

      • Steve in Ramona

        .308, I have both but like the bigger bore better.

      • Roseman91

        7.62×51 ( .308) I prefer NATO rounds they stable in flight longer. This also covers you from 0 to 800 yards. Keep them away, and keep yourself moving.

      • Tyler Durden

        Unless you plan on taking the fight to them, or hunting larger game, stick with the 5.56 or 5.45. I am assuming this is for defending the inside of your home. Less recoil, faster follow up shots and with right ammo you’re less likely to over penetrate. If you get hit, the 5.56 may be easier for your wife or child to use.
        That said, I live my FAL.

      • Beowulf

        I have used both but prefer 5.56. Number one reason, you will be able to pick up ammo from the battle field. Plus nearly no recoil make placing shots on target easier.

      • Unreconstructed Southron

        No question, 0.308. Much more versatile…and dangerous.

        KABUL, Afghanistan — The U.S. military’s workhorse rifle — used in battle for the last 40 years — is proving less effective in Afghanistan against the Taliban’s more primitive but longer range weapons.

        As a result, the U.S. is reevaluating the performance of its standard M-4 rifle and considering a switch to weapons that fire a larger round largely discarded in the 1960s.

        The M-4 is an updated version of the M-16, which was designed for close quarters combat in Vietnam. It worked well in Iraq, where much of the fighting was in cities such as Baghdad, Ramadi and Fallujah.

      • nosuchuser

        Depends on how far I have to hump it. Long hikes I take 5.56, ‘around the house’ is 308.

      • snowman

        we in my family actually have both. we use the 5.56 for moderate ranges and the 308 for the longer range kills and of course pistols for really close
        We have also set-up different guns for different purposes. THE 5.56’s we have are set-up with run and gun versatility and also some with long range scopes and acogs. the 308 we have set-up long range scopes flip down ability in case we need it for close fire. so in answer to your question, i don’t have a preference for either except for what purpose i will need which weapon for to use

      • Canadian Vet

        .308 hands down. Up here we can get the Norinco and Polytech guns and they are well worth it even if they are made in China. I make no apologies for it, because why should I spend north of 2 grand for a Springfield when I can spend 400 bucks for the M305 base rifle and bring it up to par for there?

        But damn did I ever wish we didn’t have our stupid magazine capacity limits. Only 5 rounds of the caliber for which it is designed for a centre fire semi.

        Mind you there are loopholes, like the 10-round (maximum for a handgun in Canada) LAR-15 pistol mags that conveniently fit in my Bushmaster, Beretta 96 mags which can hold 13 or 14 rounds of 9mm (designed for .40 S&W) and fit in my 92 and my former CX4, or the AIA Enfield 20 rounders ( designed for a bolt gun) which will fit the M14/M1A/M305 mag well.

      • Sledge Hammer

        Both. 5.56 for run and gun type fun and .308 for long range kill shots. If you are a big guy stick with a true battle rifle, a .308 or 30-06 if you have one. .308 is preferred since it will use the ammo the government will have in murdering millions of Americans when the SHTF. For us smaller folks a 5.56 AR type rifle is good for about 300 meters. We can carry six mags loaded to 28 rounds and body armor and still move relatively quickly when needed (if you are in decent shape). So…both, it depends on you and your situation. I have both.

      • VaFarmBoy

        Depends on your AO and OF. Where I live, a 5.56 is okay as I have very little LOS over 200 yards. Maybe when all the leaves are down, I may have a mountain top where a .308 would come in handy. I have a bolt .308 for that. Close quarters and where you have to travel on foot, a 5.56’s ammo would be a lot lighter. If you need to stop a vehicle, a .308 would help…

        • VaFarmBoy

          I meant AO and OPFOR. Area of Operations, Opposing Force, and Line Of Sight.

    3. unknown suspect

      Interesting.. I asked my boss what did our company have as a plan in case of a major disaster. He didn’t have a clue. He quizzed me on it. I asked what was company policy on something like this? Major disasters, riots, SHTF situations etc. He still had a blank look. I had to break it down to baby steps. I asked him what does this company sell? “sporting goods, guns, ammo, freeze dried foods, fishing equipment, fur bearing traps, candy, snacks, camping gear, hunting gear.” Ok.. Now in a bad situation, what would the company do? Hire a security company, expect the employees to be armed and guarding the warehouses 24/7, what? You could see the cogs clicking in the back of his mind. I’m still waiting to see a disaster plan…

      My plan- show up with a small suitcase full of cash, crank out invoices for what I need, pay for it in cash, load and leave.

      • DRD5508

        Thumbs up. ‘Load and Leave’ how true!

      • DumbDude

        Where is the company located? I ask because I’d like to send them some plans and info we use at our location. No really… I do…

        Just kidding, last thing I want to do is go out exposing my back to grab stuff that doesn’t belong to me. I’ll be at home with blacked out curtains even though I’d bet my community would be just about the last one to go civil unrest. Too many good, employed, and armed households. Folks from the cities would have a 4 hour drive just to find a lack of any “easy” pickings.

    4. incognito

      Shotgun and a pistol. Pistol is to get your shotgun back if need be.

      • SterlingSilver

        If you have magazine fed Saiga, no need to try and get your 12 ga back.

      • nosuchuser

        A sidearm is what you use to fight your way back to the rifle you should have never dropped in the first place….

        • Canadian Vet

          That is only partially correct. A rifle isn’t much use in a very confined space like a vehicle or so e buildings. Or you might need one hand available while still able to put out effective fire. I do not much care how good you claim you are, but operating a rifle without the benefit of a support hand is only marginally effective, unless you are using a bullpup which has most of its weight right at the butt end.

          And if your rifle malfunctions while in a tight spot (say moving while not behind cover) it will be faster to let your rifle hang from its sling and transition to your pistol than fiddlefuck with your rifle, clear the malfunction and then resume firing.

    5. braveheart

      Thanks for the article, Daisy. I have separate plans in place for bugging in and bugging out. If events overtake me, then I’ll have to bug in. I know, I know what that means, but I’ve been prepared for years for such a scenario. As far as I know, the USDA has NOT cancelled the order to the states to cut off funds for EBTs on Nov. 1. It’s possible that could still change and Nov. 1 will pass like any other day. If so, the NEXT key date will be Nov. 13 when the GRID EX II drill begins. I smell FALSE-FLAG in the air, most likely with GRID EX II. I have accelerated my prepping. I don’t like the way things are shaping up. braveheart

      • Unreconstructed Southron

        Don’t forget to pick up our buddies Joe and Rich on your way out, BH.

        • Archivist

          You misspelled “pick off.”

          • Unreconstructed Southron

            Funny

            • Archivist

              I try.

        • braveheart

          US, you don’t mean the trolls, do you? what would I want with trolls, other than target practice? OOOOO…..Ouch…..Bad keyboard! Don’t give me any ideas.

          • Sledge Hammer

            LOL. Everyone has a bucket list! Aren’t trolls on your list?

      • Sgt. Dale

        Braveheart:
        You are right you need two or more plans when the SHTF. I have two types of bugging in plans and two types of bugging out plans.

        As far as the Nov 13 date I hope you are not right it is our annual deer hunting trip (31 years) with my brother and family and good friends. But if it goes down I will have to stay home. THAT WILL REALLY PISS ME OFF ZOMBIES BE AFRAID VERY AFRAID. That is if I don’t get to go on my deer hunt.
        Smell a false flag. It smell like a skunk!!!!!

        • braveheart

          Howdy, Sarge. I sincerely HOPE I’m wrong. If nothing happens, we’ll make it into 2014. A few more months would be nice to get more supplies. the more we can get, the better our chances of survival. In any case, I’m not getting caught with my pants down. braveheart

    6. VRF

      thankfully I wont have to pick my kid up from school, or pack shit in their backpacks..

      their school is safe, and has an armed guard on duty 24-7

      • DRD5508

        Home schooling is priceless!

      • anna

        Good for you! Homeschooling is indeed the answer. I wish more parents would take that giant step for their children.

    7. averagejoe

      I’d pick the one that is loaded and closest to me!

    8. Dave H

      My god you people are mentally ill and in need of at least medication.

      • Infidels-r-us

        Aw, you really spotted me there, didn’t you Dave?

        • Patriot Man

          yeh – you stand out like a jewish gun grab fake “shooting” hoax – lol

      • Sgt. Dale

        Dave
        If I’m insane to want to live through this with my family by my side, and my friends. Then so be it.
        I am ready when the Zombies attack. See deff. of what a Zombie is on 10/16/13 SHFT PLAN site.
        As for you my friend good luck you are going to need it. I think you might what to very close with your God.
        Sgt.

      • DRD5508

        Dave lighten up. Laughter and fun have no need of medication. Try it.

      • Mountain Trekker

        Dave this is just a scenario of what could happen. So come on, just join us for a day in Dreamland and tomorrow you can go back to reality. But in the meantime, Lock and Load. Trekker Out

        • gone under

          I could use a vicodin right now. Got a firewood permit today and got my twenty dollars worth. I keep a 03A3 with me for elk, deer and those Fking chipmunks that give my location away.

          • sixpack

            I can think of things less appetizing than chipmunk stew. Throw in a few carrots, potatoes and onions and almost anything can be tasty.

      • Mountain Trekker

        Oh, and by the way Dave, what kind of medication do you recommend, and do you have any for sale. Trekker Out

      • jim in Va.

        yeah? How prepared are you Dave? Don’t show up at my front door having wet your pants due to fear and running in circles looking for Uncle Sugar.

      • Ancient Echoes

        Its just a good thing the scriptures say “he that lives by the sword will parish by the sword.” If it said gun we would all have to worry!

        • jerrytbg

          You really didn’t understand that passage did you?

          We don’t LIVE by the sword/firearm…but will use it in defense…

          There IS a difference…

          • Ancient Echoes

            Please explain to me the difference…..It seems like too many here are looking forward to the time when they can kill fellow humans without any guilt or lawful consequences. I am also wondering if the spell check works on everyone else’s computers or do you just ignore those tedious little facts as well.

            • jerrytbg

              Simply put…

              Those who force, by means of arms, their will upon others, are no better than the predator beasts of the forest…and will be dealt with accordingly… and their remains will be fed to the insects that inhabit the forest floor…

              They deserve no better…

      • Patriot Man

        Davey boy – I take medication every day. I take my Patriot pills which cause me to have a searing desire to blow traitors away. Gotta go – medicine time.

      • Got yum yumms?

        Funny….the same guy at work who was laughing at al my computer books…they were a prep to keep a job. Decades later…I’m running the place with my computer prepper books and the jerk was fired off decades ago for being dumb.

        Knowledge…that’s all this is… it’s a prep.

        Why people think it’s mentally ill to seek knowledge about self preservation.
        HA

        THAT means YOU are a brainwashed NWO slave.
        Your knee-jerk programmed response from decades of TV.
        You think how they want you to think.
        THEY are the NWO jews, Council on Foreign relations, Bilderbergers and Comrade Obama.

        The UN is a commie organization and they will use the Green bullshit excuses to control your life.

        Your grandkids will live in a high rise, no self protection guns, no car, no BBQ grill. Just a community bike, chipped and slaves to their masters. They will gratefully go to a converted fema camp, then turned into a manufacturing and human habitation zone for sustainable development and smart growth.

        IN SHORT…. SLAVES.

        Back in slave times… the slaves were not educated or allowed to be armed.

        Got it brain dead?

      • Sledge Hammer

        You mean more of the stuff you’ve been drinking? “Obamanade, it keeps you baaaaiiinnggg all day long!”. Go back to your Kenyan Sheep Herder sheeple!

    9. lena

      imo, you have just over a year. imo, obama; wants to keep things rolling along in 2014 to try and get the house and own the govt. if he does, he goes after all the riches money thru congress; if he doesnt; he goes on excutive order warpath.

      either way, obamacare is all in then, the US will be tipping its debt/having a time getting others to buy its debt and the ability of the govt to cover all those on obamacare,welfare and medicaid starts failing.

      my plan is to dig in as there are a lot better targets around me(better neighborhoods). they will be targeted first. imo, this isnt going to be a long reset. so many arent prepared to make it 3 days; that imo; in 3 months a reset will happen and if you have supplies and a pile of metals to restart with after; you’ll be okay. it may be martial law; but those who have the resources got a good chance. i know i’m in the minority here, but i just cannot see us going back to 1800s type living after moving so far from it.

      • braveheart

        Lena, EMP can throw us back into the 1800s.

      • Got yum yumms?

        “Reset” is a good term for it. The reset will be a global currency and we’re all chipped. Owning precious metals will be banned.

        Only the bankers will own gold.

        Ever observe the words..

        “HOARDING GOLD ADN SILVER”

        ha ha!

        You never hear.. “Hoarding stocks or Hoarding real estate”.

        Their language…”Hoarding” tries to brand those who buy metals as crackpots.
        Yet what the fuck do you think they have in their vaults.

        All I buy are metals. That’s it.

        I don’t want their paper.
        Fuck interest, fuck dividends, fuck compounding.

        Metals never fail….Gods money.

        Then when the reset hits in my old age…
        I’ll cash it all in…sell to a private investor…
        Then buy up rental property cheap and have the funds to fix it up..set it all up in a trust fund for the kid.

        At the time we are at in history…. get out of paper…then near the end…get into tangible real estate.

        It works like this…
        You buy real estate…a double or duplex when you are out of college.
        You spend 20 years fixing it up. Then you get a loan against it for your kids college…then let the rent pay on the loan. Years later… you are old and retiring…the kids are done with college and the loan is paid off.. you still have your house..all the while continuing to fix up the place. In old age..the rent buys you your meds.
        Then…when you’re dead….do NOT leave it to the kids. They just sell it and have fun.
        You set it up in a trust fund and have it professionally managed and audited by a CPA firm. The kids get a monthly check and the rent is allocated to project for repairs and improvements.

        GOT IT?

        Good.

        The generations who do not plan for the next are sinful and fuck heads.

        • braveheart

          The only ‘chip’ I’ll take is a potato chip. Lays; betcha can’t eat just one.

          • aljamo

            Lays betcha can’t eat just one, Ha. you can wolf the whole bag down and be sicker for it. It is nothing but GMO’s. Zero nutrition and total garbage.

      • M

        Going to 1800’s alright , the 1800’s BC that is

      • Sledge Hammer

        You are correct….millions upon millions will die. Over 90% of the U.S. population doesn’t know how to live without electricity. Millions of Americans can’t even live without their facebook and twitter accounts. They will withdraw into their own minds and die in a comatose state. Seriously though, the world NEEDS to be reset. I’m afraid to say but I truly believe a world wide EMP or CME is what the world needs to reset the planet and push us to a dark place where only the smart and the strong will survive. Plan now because something WILL happen and you must be prepared for it…or perish.

      • durango kidd

        If the Dems win the house in 2014, don’t worry about your money, worry about the Constitution. The 2nd Amendment will be toast.

        White voters and gun owners stayed home in 2012. If you stay home in 2014 the America you know and love will be gone and your weapons will be confiscated!

        Engage the enemy everywhere but especially at the polls. 🙂

        • Average Guy

          You poor soul. You’re just not going to let go of the idea there’s a difference between the republicans and the democrats.

          They’re two wings on the same bird of prey.

          Also, newsflash: the America we knew is already gone.

    10. Basstard

      What do I do with the bodies that will be piling up in the yard?? Fertilize the garden? Hang them on a post? Dress them up funny and put make-up on them ?

      • Sgt. Dale

        I like the last one the best, but fertilizer sounds good.

        • DRD5508

          Sgt. Dale, not fertilizer. Like Carp: too many bones.

          • Sgt. Dale

            DRD
            Damn you are right!!!!!!

      • OutWest

        Basstard — lol

        Stack them up for a perimeter barrier.
        The sight and smell alone would be a good deterrent.

        • Got yum yumms?

          No…build a catapult and hurl them over the wall at the NWO boys… bio warfare..let them get nice and ripe. ha ha

      • CrabbeNebulae

        @Basstard… That’s what back hoe’s and front end loaders are for. Got both. I’m ready. just saying

      • Mountain Trekker

        Bass, this may sound bizarre but so does the question, and this helps answer one of the earlier questions. Which is the best round? 223 might be best cause you won’t have so many bodies piled up in the yard, many will crawl off to die or nurse their wounds. And I doubt they would return for more. Trekker Out.

      • no justice

        It is tempting to dwell on things like bodies in the street, what arms to use, etc. but my main worry is a Katrina-like scenario where the “official government people” come to disarm you. What course of action to take. My weapons stay with me is the plan.

        • Patriot Man

          @ NO the karina gun grab, after the us govvie scum blew up the dike on purpose, was really stupid for the pigs. All they did make make GD we ALL know that the next time, we mow them down when they come for the guns.

        • braveheart

          no justice, attempted gun grab is also my main worry. I think it will be feds and/or foreign troops trying it. All members of my “ventilation team” will be ready and on standby.

      • Barn Cat

        People will haul them away and use them for food. They’ll probably come back on a regular basis to get more fresh meat.

        • Them Guys

          Do You mean like in 1930’s, Ukraine “HOLODOMER” event? When 7 to 10-Million white christian ukranian’s were Forced to Starve to Death in Less than 18 months, BY the Russian/ukranian Jewish Bolshevik Kommies?

          Those starved folks were forced to turn to canabilisim in an attempt to remain fed. By the end of it, about 1/3 of Ukraine POP were Dead. Caused BY master race jewish kommie bolshevik Mass Murderers.(yeah bless them jews eh).

          I wonder When usa fed govnt plans to Build a few Holodomer Museums for white christian ukranians, similar to the couple Hundred HolyHoax jew museums all over our nation?

          Oh wait! That will Never happen, as due to zionist jew infestations Our usa fed govnt is filled with folks who believe that Only They are victims, and only they need any permanant museum reminders of atrocities.

          Good thing we have a few Patriotic American folks whos memories of such events shall never be silenced, and who refuse to ever stop alerting others to some of these events they were never told of, in order to maintain that only one group is considered the worlds Victims. Some of Us intend to change that attitude. We only “Bless” those who deserve it. Mass killers and exterminators like jew kommie bolsheviks and zionists do not deserve any “blessings”. Do You get it Yet Barn Cat?

          • Not so Much

            BTW, Half-wit idiots like you that see Jews as an infestation are why the Holocaust and Holodomor happened.

            • Not so Much

              It’s the politics, not the race

      • Slick One

        Skulls and leg or arm bones could be used to make some killer tables and chairs….

      • sixpack

        Line them up as a warning, then when they start to stink too much, burn them. Cremation—a funeral fit for kings.

      • Broken Filiment

        People looking for food/water can be used to drag away bodies or bury them. win/win scenario.

      • Sledge Hammer

        Burn them. Otherwise diseases will start and you will die.

    11. Infidels-r-us

      In case of any type of civil unrest you will find me on my 16 acres, sitting behind one of the biggest trees in KY with my arsenal and a few cases of homemade delight. I have crazy neighbors all around me that I am even afraid of that are the types to have handy in SHTF. Now getting there from downtown….

      • JayJay

        Infidel…care to say which county??

        • Infidels-r-us

          Sweet Bullitt county.

          • JayJay

            Okie–dokie; Logan County here.

    12. Sgt. Dale

      Hell I’ve been locked and loaded for about 2 years now. Its coming and we here know it. I just got done loading 300 more 223’s for myself and just started loading 200 223 for my brother. Next 200 rds. of 6.8MM. The perfect between gun for the 223 and 308. Finding ammo and brass is problem slugs no problem (270 slugs) stay with 115 grs. reloading spec almost the same as 300 rem.
      Last month picked up 250 more 12ga. slugs and 00 buck.
      The wife just got over 250.00 worth of canned good and dried food to add to the supply. Water purification system all set up, and so is my solar power. Still working on my wind generator.
      SO LET IT HAPPEN I’M READY. I will pray for those that are not!!!

      • Shootit

        You ought to look into casting. I have been casting bullets, slugs, and buckshot for about 5 years. Currently, I cast 9 mm, .38/.357, .44, 00 buck, and shotgun slugs. The 240 gr .44’s are used in my Black Powder rifles. Good rainy day fun.

        • Sgt. Dale

          Shootit
          I do 30 Cal 22 Cal 357/ 9mm cal. 8mm Cal 7mm cal 12ga. slugs 44 cal 45 cal. I’m right with my friend!!!
          Sgt.

          • Paranoid

            You guys are way light I cast 3# for my canons

            • Smokey

              Those welded-up WWI artillery pieces on the courthouse lawn are going to come in pretty handy someday. They’ll make a good muzzle loader.

        • sixpack

          I’ve been stockpiling lead tire weights. Both w/zinc and without. I’ve got about 100 pounds of each. I’m going to spend a day making making cupcake-sized ingots. If I do nothing else with it, I can always make 1/2 oz pellets for my wrist rocket…that shit hurts when it hits you!

        • Broken Filiment

          Cast bullets good for most guns, but not for Glocks.

      • BillyBobJumpingFrog

        Silly, Just silly!

      • Smirnoff Jackson

        Sweet! 5.56 brass, bullets, primers, powder is readily available again. I just picked up 5,000 pieces of 5.56 brass for under $500. It’s Lake City so I’m punching out the primers & swaging the primer pockets. Follow that with cleaning out the pockets on an RCBS Casemate. Lube and trim and then load em in my progressive press. In the past year we have loaded over 18,000 5.56 with 62 grain SS109 bullets. .308 is in the same boat. .308 brass, 500 pieces for $89 delivered. Bullets, primers and powder also available. Shotgun shells have been available for the most part throughout the recent ammo “crisis” so that has never been a problem. One thing you may want to invest in is true body armor rated to stop .308/7.62X54R/06/etc. Good body armor with plates all the way around can be had (including the plate carrier) for about $250.
        Lock and Load!

    13. Confederate

      Put your faith and trust in Jesus Christ, pass the ammunition and pray that everything ends quickly. Accept Jesus soon because you may not have another chance.

      • lastmanstanding

        At this point, I am preparing to stand WITH Jesus, not behind him.

        It will take us all to send these bastards back to hell.

    14. averagejoe

      Anybody know how to muzzle a 5000 watt gas powered generator so no one can hear it running? I think I can use it during the day to run fridge & charge ups then run fridge off ups at night.

      • guero

        If you surround it with walls, most of the sound will go up. That’s probably the best you can do if it doesn’t have a good muffler.

      • George Gefferson

        Bury it deep underground.

        • Hammerun

          Turn it off..

      • Barn Cat

        Bad idea. It’s a waste of fuel. You’d be better off storing kerosene or propane for cooking and heating.

      • Smokey

        Build a box, sides and top of 2×6 insulated with rock wool batts, slip over it, exhaust out the bottom.

        Don’t move it indoors unless you want to kill yourself.

      • The Old Coach

        That’s an engineering problem I’ve wrestled with for years. Having been in the car manufacturing biz, it’s something I do know a little about. Unfortunately it takes a small novel to cover it all adequately. A few points:

        Exhaust noise is just the start of the problem. The cylinder fins and crankcase radiate a surprising amount of noise, and the carb intake also makes noise. First part of the plan is to get high grade generators that are engineered from the git-go for low noise. Your basic open-frame Harbor Freight cheapo is a very poor choice there.

        Set on the ground, not on a deck that will vibrate.

        Mufflers need lots of internal volume. Generator designers use mufflers that are much too small, except for the big inbuilt nat-gas types that cost $10,000 to buy and install. Add a couple of car mufflers in series to your generator’s exhaust system. When you lengthen any exhaust system use pipe that’s at least 3x the diameter of the generator’s exhaust. Don’t add back pressure or the engine will overheat. Black iron pipe is much better than thin sheet automobile exhaust pipe, if you can manage it. If you do use thin wall pipe, wrap it in fiberglss insulation to absorb sound.

        Forget diesels – they are mechanically much too noisy.

        Look for everything on the generate that jingles, rattles, vibrates, and tie it down using bits of stiff foam rubber and duct tape.

        Enclose the unit in a shed, but remember that it needs lots of fresh air for engine cooling. Mass and resilience working together do the best job of cutting sound travel through walls. A lot of cars used to use pads that were thin lead sheet bonded to foam rubber, which is then glued to the door and roof panels. There is a sound-absorbing type of sheetrock that might help.
        Cooling air intake and outflow should be aimed vertically. Use soft-wall heating duct if you can, it absorbs noise quite well.

        Figure out how to deal with the steam that emanates from the exhaust in cold weather; (the largest component of exhaust gas is water vapor). Either condense it, or lead it well away from your generator shed. Mine ends in a nasty briar patch.

        If this make solar look better than generators, you’re right. But I have my genset anyway. An new-old-stock Yamaha, that is pretty quiet to begin with. I’m out on a farm with only one neighbor within half a mile. Adamant non-preppers, I expect to have to deal with them early on.

      • Average Guy

        There’s plans online to hook it up to a car muffler.
        A barrel with gravel is good too.

        Add a converter to allow it to run on gas – or propane – or natural gas, and you’re set. …Maybe.
        ericpetersautos.com has a great write-up about such a conversion.

        Also, convert a chest freezer to run as a refrigerator. It’s much more efficient, meaning you run your generator less often. The plans are online. Or maybe you can buy one already that way? I’d like one myself.

        • robert paulson

          AJ
          buy a honda eu2000

      • Anonymous

        Get a propane frig.

        Works well, uses very little propane and very little battery usage

      • sixpack

        You can get a few feet of muffler flex-pipe, you know, the flexible metal pipe you can temporarily repair holes in rusted muffler pipes with, from an auto parts place? A couple of muffler clamps and run your exhaust out of a dryer vent or something. The length of pipe muffles the sound before it exits. This allows you to keep your genny indoors.

      • Smirnoff Jackson

        If you can’t keep it quiet in a garage or out building you can attach the exhaust to an underground diffuser system. The thing is the underground diffuser would have to be long and have many perforations to allow the gases to escape over a distance and not cause excessive back pressure. It would be akin to installing a giant firearm suppressor on your generator exhaust.

    15. aljamo

      I do not and cannot have a gun. A heavy hammer, a handaxe and a sharpened cane are my intruder protection. They will not stop a bullet. If they are shooting bullets, I have not devised a plan yet.

      • DRD5508

        Pitch fork or a compressor with a nail gun (home improvements?). Keep a shovel (sharpened) close by.

        • Sgt. Dale

          Aij
          Cross bow. get one that shoots around 300 feet per sec. use an good broad head. practice with field tips. If you use field tips head shots only.

      • cossack55

        Bow and arrows. Hunting sling shot with 3/8 or 1/2″ steel balls. Good to 100 yards+

        • SCTV

          I tried .50 lead maxi balls out of curiosity in my sling shot, just because they were the same size as the marbles that I was practicing with and they went right through the 3/4″ plywood that I was using as a backstop. So I bought several sizes and found that the best with my slingshot was the .45 cal balls. Much better penetration and power than the steel shot I had bought. A little more expensive than the steel but kinda neat I thought.
          Just my 2 cents.

      • Paranoid

        Choices not good. But I can tell you a slingshot in the hands of someone who can shoot it, is deadly. Second, more than half of all problems are after dark; a good Ghillie suit in black and you get very hard to see and if they cannot see you they likely cannot hit you.

        • Hammerun

          Bear spray or Wasp spray, that oughta do it..

        • Barn Cat

          Some good slingshot ammo are iron ore pellets also known as taconite pellets. You can get them cheap on eBay.

      • Patriot Man

        @aljamo=- make a homemade 50 ft range traitor toaster called a flamethrower.

        • slingshot

          Something about flame that makes you say, Holy Shit!
          Hahahahaha!

      • Mountain Trekker

        Al, go for Bear Pepper Spray. If it will turn a Grizzly, it will turn anything, and you can get more than one blast out of a can. then you can use your hammer or whatever! I know,we’ll hear about wasp spray, but that only works in the eyes, no so with bear spray. Trekker Out.

        • The Old Coach

          BTW look into Burglar Bombs. Pepper spray canisters that are triggered by pulling a string. You can empty a room without even entering it with one of those.

        • Paranoid

          Starting to have problems wth the Bear pepper spray; seems the wetback bears like it.

      • Mark

        Get in the bathtub and start hollering “Police!”.

        Or don your ghillie suit and the criminals will think you’re the Creature from the Black Lagoon, and they will run away. Because none of them have ever seen a ghillie suit…or a tomato in its natural habitat…or a cow-pie kicking contest, or a boar-hog caught in a punji trap.

        That reminds me…just set up punji traps all the way around your house. Your HOA will love you for it, trust me!

      • sixpack

        ALL OF THE ABOVE!

      • Smirnoff Jackson

        Get a shotgun if nothing else.

    16. Be informed

      Let’s not forget the humble .22 rifle. Many people are so financially in trouble that they cannot afford a much more powerful rifle. Something is better than nothing. The .22 rifle can be purchased for about $125-$200 new, and much less used. .22 LR ammo is slow in comparison to a .223 or 5.56, but it is the same size round. The LR usually travels about 1200 FPS, while of course the .223 and 5.56 is going 3000-3500 FPS depending on the brand someone purchases. This is what makes such a tiny bullet so much more lethal, the kinetic energy of the velocity. A .22 round going say 20000 FPS would have more destructive ability than a .50 caliber. Still you can get a little more punch for the .22 LR with my favorite ammo the Stinger which goes above 1600 FPS. A .22 in the head of someone likely puts them down, period.

      A shotgun is something that puts fear in most people, especially the zombies trying to take your food away from you. The old scatter gun is still very effective of installing some fear into people that don’t have much of a backbone to begin with. If they had a backbone they would be using it along with a mind to put away right what they and their families need. Many people like the 000, 00 buck shot for its take down power. The smaller shot such as Buck 1 through 4 should be considered though because there is more shot the smaller it is and might be better for a larger number of people trying to take waht you have. Check out the size of buck shot and the equivalent size caliber round:

      000 = .36
      00 = .33
      0 = .32
      1 = .30
      2 = .27
      3 = .25
      4 = .24

      As one can see even using Buck 4, getting hit with even one ball that is larger than a .22 will likely slow down or stop anyone. There are many more ball bearings in a Buck 2-4 than 000. Of course 000 is like getting hit with a 9 mm, and at close range no one of going to get up from a full discharge of something this size. on top of various size Buck shot, one should also consider the old shot gun slug. All one has to do is look at the slug inside a 20 gauge case and see what this would do to anyone. To see a slug in a 10 gauge is something to behold. Sabot slugs can get up to almost 2000 FPS and would end any threat with any a less than center shot.

      Hand guns are of course important. Revolvers may hold less much they are almost always dependable and can be counted on. I have known people with Glocks that have on an occasion jammed on them, rare but it does happen. I guess whatever works best for you.

      Other weapons should also be considered. A nice can of bear spray for example might not be such a bad plan if you don’t want to gun down your neighbors that are trying to get into your home for a bite to eat. Bear spray covers a large area as it is meant to stop a charging bear that is not easy to hit with a small cloud of pepper spray. Stun baton and TASERS are also a good idea if you want to use non lethal force to simply stop your neighbors or others. Again, whatever works for you. Just remeber your lifeline is worth you protecting it, because it is protecting you from immediately starving and suffering.

      • BillyBobJumpingFrog

        Mr. informed,

        Do you really think you are going to kill people??

        Almost all of you are living some Rambo type fantasy.

        If you put as much energy into trying to help Obama fix what is wrong as opposed to fighting to keep the status quo, this planet would be a better place for all!!

        • Kulafarmer

          Now thats funny,
          Oh wait, you were serious?
          If the system actually worked the part about working with ooobummer might make sense
          However,
          The washington rulers dont want to or care to hear what we think,
          So my money is on bullets, beans, and bandaids!

          • lastmanstanding

            Kula, don’t forget the Tannerite.

            Several friends have been “experimenting” with it.

            Their stories are “impressive”…i’m get some today.

        • The Old Coach

          First off, Froggy, the Halfrican Dictator IS what’s wrong, so helping him in any way would be throwing in your lot Satan. As Rush said in 2009, I HOPE HE FAILS.

          Sadly, if the Free Shit Army sends a tentacle to my BOL, yes, it’s likely to be killed if it threatens me even a little bit. I’m old, but I’m not ready to give up my liberty just yet.

        • Got yum yumms?

          So the dollar collapses…all the exec. orders King Obummer created are enforced.
          The police are not getting paid and say, fuck it and stay home to watch over their families. Then…the criminal gangs…gang bangers, biker gangs and enterprising folks come out to play.

          They think completely different from your hippy mentality.
          They would all sit around drinking beer having at your ass and watching.

          Be real…
          Being prepared to defend your family does not make you a murderer.

          YES…we all could kill someone trying to kill or harm our own.
          It’s called being an American and being a protective parent.

          Ever hear of the NRA?

          All the members are productive members of society.
          I once knew a cop who never had any issues with NRA members.
          When he saw the bumper sticker..he knew he was dealing with a polite, educated and respectful armed citizen who had the power to kill any fucker who tries to fuck with him and his own.

          Got it.

          “Rambo type fantasy”…. sound like you are the one in hippy fantasy land.

          Obama care was designed to economically destroy the country.

          it’s simple math.. the pie is only so big. Sorry…everyone does not get a piece.
          If you baked it…you get a fucking piece. Sure, we’ll toss some edge crusts around and give a piece now and then…but NO….earn it you fucking commies… I’ve been working for decades. When Monday hits…I’m a happy man… because I know I’ve earned my place and I run the show. But all the commie bitches want to take it.

          I’m currently planning a new business. It’s full automation and zero employment for Obamma commies.

          There’s your new racism. No commies/dems.

          Funny…the Obama nightmare has me more busy than ever. Everyone is scrambling to get rid of employees…. I automate things.

          Who don’t you go buy an NRA membership and learn how to shoot.
          cut your hair, take a bath and become a productive member of society.

          All commies are alike.

        • Unreconstructed Southron

          Hey Einstein, Obama isn’t trying to FIX anything. His mission is to complete our transformation into a third world country. And he’s almost done.

        • braveheart

          Oh great, another troll. froggy, enjoy that troll check while you can because it will be cut off eventually. Obama and co. are the problem, not us. we’ll be acting in self-defense of our homes, ourselves, and our families. We’re not the ones with bad intentions toward this country, Washington Dc is, retard!

        • Slick One

          BillyBobJumpingFrog your brotha the presidential primate Obama is destroying our nation. Because of that
          we are preparing to defend ourselves,friends and family.
          Perhaps you should move to North Korea,your kind of people.

        • Smirnoff Jackson

          Fix what is wrong? Please enlighten us as to what is wrong? What is wrong is the Kenyan Muslim usurping the Constitution daily and destroying this country. You are an idiot.

        • Not so Much

          Sounds like you’re living in your own fantasy.

          Do a little bit of research on the progressives. I know that’s anathema to a leftist but here’s to hoping you’re not an outright idiot.

          They aren’t in it to fix it. They’re in it to subvert, usurp and destroy the Constitution in favor of something akin to global fascism.

      • Outlaw

        Thank you BI, and good points! I have the .22 and shotty covered. Perhaps a rifle is not the best use of my limited funds at this point in time.

        • cossack55

          .22LR will go clean thru a 1/2″ pine board at 450 meters. That can be a lethal shot.

          • The Old Coach

            That I seriously doubt. First of all you’d have it HIT the pine board, which will require about 30 feet of holdover at 450 meters, and anything from zero to 30 feet of windage, too. Second you’d have to find a really rotten board.

            I just love the sight of keyboard commandos in the evening!

            • braveheart

              Old Coach, I’ve seen that done before so it is possible. But, yes, you do have to be a good shot to do so.

            • Smokey

              It will kill at a mile downrange.

        • Indy Colts

          @ Outlaw

          I just bought a nice diamondback AR 15 with 2 steel mags at wally on the 18 month no interest card. It was $847 + tax. Hell if they will approve you why not put it on 18 months no interest and spend the extra on ammo. I’m happy with it and yes its the only card I have because I don’t prefer credit cards.

          • lastmanstanding

            It is a tangible item in your possession that will be far more valuable to you than a piddly amount of fiat that you paid for it.

            The future value and piece of mind that you have now is “priceless”.

            Let them come and collect wshtf.

            • Indy Colts

              Thats kinda how I thought about it. I was going to get one with my tax return but the 18 months no interest was too good to pass up and they only do it at christmas to get people in debt. It hasn’t been more than a week and I already got the card in the mail. Not that I plan to use it.

      • cossack55

        12 guage Remington Accu Tips 3 1/2″ magnum. Close to same FPS as a .50 at 50 yards. May work to stop improvised armored vehicles.

        • Kulafarmer

          Wrong
          Accutip is avg 1820 fps @ muzzle
          50BMG avg 2700 fps @ muzzle

          • cossack55

            I stand corrected. I was thinking Lightfield IDS Commander.

            Probably closer to a .458 SOCOM just at 1/2 the price per round and 1/2 or more price of the rifle.

          • Smirnoff Jackson

            LOL. No comparison at all. Most .50 BMG bullets are minimum 647 grains up to 750 grains. The .50 BMG bullets are also hardened and can be indendiary, armor piercing or any combination of the above. Slugs from shotguns are made of somewhat hardened lead and that’s about it. The Kinetic Energy from a .50 BMG is vastly superior to the Kinetic Energy of a 12 gauge slug.

      • eppe

        Garlic tipped .22lr hollow points, even if just skims you, you still are terminated. Body shot will bounce around and rip internal organs to pieces. I know, a buddy of mine died from a dropped .22 pistol, fired up into his chest cavity, and nearly pierced every organ. Worst bullet to get hit with, goes in does not come out. I miss my friend…

        • Hammerun

          I have long railed about a 12 gauge pump with high brass express loads for CQB situations, like someone lurking outside the front door. Boom, at the feet first getting him down and dealing with the rest later. I load my own shit and can come up with some real healthy shells out of a shooters bible. Taking of course safety and common sense first.
          Open the door! Fuck that, how’s about thru the door? Here catch this!!

          • Kulafarmer

            Just shoot em through the door!
            Or up in the air! Better yet!
            Thats what joe said we should do
            Hes the vice president so he MUST lnow what hes talking about,
            Right?

            Snicker snicker pfffft’

        • Patriot Man

          @ eppe, eating lots of garlic, I mean handfuls, then blowing hard at the threat is also very effective lol.

          • eppe

            Keeps vampires away too…
            There are a multitude of poisions that can be mixed together, and placed in any hollow point, shot gun shell, or snake shot. Seal off with candle wax, now you have a projectile that is 10x more effective in termination. One shot gun pellet that is tainted as such, will make for a quicker death that a plain bullet. Look it up, the Mafia would rub bullets with garlic…
            But all you people should aready know this, Google is great for looking up stuff….
            I still miss my friend.

            • slingshot

              Caution!

              The use of agents to inflict injuries could have adverse effects on future attacks upon you. There is plenty of stuff you can mix up in the kitchen sink. Our opponents already have proven methods of chemical and bio weapons and their usage. Note that this would elevate your status of combatant to terrorist. Possible new rules of engagement especially if you use them first and become a prisoner of war.
              Think before you leap.

              • eppe

                But if they die before you, you win?
                Just being informed is ahead of the game?
                My computer was attacked tonight, guess I am on the NSA radar?
                We all are if we comment here?
                I think it might be a good thing to stay low and off the radar?
                I am thinking and am worried, I have others to think of, like you?
                I wish the world was different place than it is now?
                Think about what you are saying, they are watching…
                Pray for the best, prep for the worst….
                MAC; is there any way to check if we are beimg tracked?
                If so, I will never comment again….

                • eppe

                  Remember when I said to “kill them all?”

                • slingshot

                  eppe.

                  I have thought up some bad shit and would only use on defense. They have been tracking places like this site for years. Welcome to the club. Also they are not too concern with us. It is the ones out there with real frog ass tight opsec running around the countryside.

                • eppe

                  sling:
                  No problem here, I know what you are saying.
                  I guess that I must fade into the background and never comment or visit again….
                  I have enjoyed the time here, but all “good things must come to an end”.
                  Thank goodness there are 10 others that use this email address, but I digress…
                  Mac, I have had a interesting time visiting, but OPSEC is a tricky thing nowdays…
                  Signing off….

        • braveheart

          Howdy, eppe. I personally know someone who was shot with a .22 and didn’t make it. He wen through something similar to what you described, so I know it’s possible. Graveyards everywhere have someone buried in them killed by nothing more than a .22LR. I like .22LR so much I have 3 .22s plus enough ammo for life.

    17. armed patriot

      Can we get this party started please? I’d like 3 weeks off like the government workers.

      • Kulafarmer

        With pay better yet and with a raise in january!
        Makes me want to go get a gov….. ….
        Oh wait thats right,,,

        • pissinwiththewind

          Life is good. Repubs caved and kicked the can with the dems. We all get turkey for Thanksgiving and pumkin/sweet potato pies.

          Now that i don’t have to worry about hoardes of welfare folks out on the interstate throwing rocks at drivers cars, hoping they will crash so they can loot; I’m letting the little woman treat me to a day of trout fishing on the Rez. (Cherokee that is).

          Turning 57 tomorrow and i thought I’d never live to see it. Sometimes I wish i hadn’t. But, I’m still here and trying to make the best of it while there is still a few months of travel left before the cookie crumbles.

          it could come sooner, but hopefully not cause i need to reload a couple hundred more rounds.

          My weapon of choice for sniper style killing is my Weatherby 270 magnum. At 300 yards, with a 130 grain ballistic tip bullet I can just about split a man in two.
          The bullet almost explodes on impact to the mid-section and will take out the heart and lungs, not to mention make a mess of the poot shoot.

          With a solid rest for the rifle, it puts every round in a three inch circle @ 300 yds. Off hand i can punch holes in a 9 inch pie plate every time, without flinching and have another round chambered before the sound of the blast stops echoing. Good enough to keep zombies at bay.

          Lock and load folks, time is a drawing near. Better to be the shooter than the shootee.

          • Kulafarmer

            Happy birthday and happy fishing Bud!
            270 is real popular out here.

    18. BillyBobJumpingFrog

      C’mon,
      You guys have been screaming this crap for 5 years, and I am making more money than ever in the market. Your gold and silver hoarding and speculation is a fools folly!

      This is a time to celebrate. Obama has the economy on track for the most part, the wars are winding down, and most people are happy.

      I understand there are a handful of people that are still getting whole from the economic situation, but let’s be honest, most of them were not being fiscally responsible to begin with.

      Sorry chicken little, the sky is not falling, it is a bright sunny day, and the future is looking good for most of us.

      • cossack55

        Funny thing about PMs, no counter-party risk. Been stacking silver since it was $1.38 an ounce. I’m happy and sleep well. Peace.

      • jim in Va.

        You need to get outside the beltway. what world are you living in? there is a smaller percentage of the population working since the 1950s. Most new jobs are now part time and come with no benefits. They will be required to buy UNaffordable healthcare with premiums 2-4 time what is being paid now, They may get fined because they can’t get online to sign up. Both parties are responsible for our economic mess and inflation is getting worse by the day. It will hit you too,count on it. remember this…I told you so!

      • OutWest

        Wrong site BillyBob

        We think maybe you’re looking for the
        National Democratic Convention site.

      • JRS

        Sure, BillyBob…and I believe in Sandy Claws and da Toof Ferry, too.

      • yental

        THE WATER is feeling real good today, isn’t it BBJF. In fact, you won’t even notice “your cooking in it” as the temperature rises.

        By the time YOU finally “get it”…it will be time to serve “BillyBobJumpingFrog” LEGS with our favorite condiments and sauce. Keep praising that pot of simmering water your in…I’m getting hungry thinking about the guaranteed end result.

        QUOTE: “Obama has the economy on track for the most part”. Hilarious on several levels. The “economic track” ends right around the next bend, courtesy of the nonFederal Reserve and the bankster gangsters. Obama is in the “caboose” of this train…leading from behind and damn sure not in control of “the lack of tracks” ahead of this kamikaze train track.

        Very humorous assertion that Obama, or any member of the District of Criminals has contributed ANYTHING positive to LIFE IN AMERIKA.

        • The Old Coach

          I recommend sauteing them in butter and garlic.

          Having abandoned the Ann Arbor MI area when I retired, I will miss watching the Froggys up there run around like headless chickens and eating one another of the fit hits the Shan for real.

          NOT.

        • BillyBobJumpingFrog

          yental,
          The water is fine. I am trying to help you.

          Studies have been done, and what is going on here and on many other “like minded” sites, is a form of “group psychosis” and mild mental illness.

          It is not healthy to sit around all depressed about things that have not happened and work yourself into a frenzy about boogie men and monsters hiding in the shadows that don’t exist.

          Meth heads?? Rouge bands of former military? corrupt police?

          The walking dead is just a television show people.

          There is no way the entire world will collapse into chaos and man against man…like you all rant on about.

          Go get some help, talk to your family and friends.

          Ask them if you seem to be a little bit or a lot off kilter.

          If so, you might consider it might just be you…

          We will still be discussing this 5 years from now, you will still be predicting utter collapse, and I on the other hand will be wealthier and happier.

          I think I will take the money I save and go on a nice vacation, you keep buying overpriced freeze dried food, bullets, candles, and toilet paper, and we will see who is happier.

      • Patriot Man

        @ Bubbabillybob – Can anyone get this guy some “wakeup” medicine? Anyone?

      • REB

        An impostor…I know BillyBob and he is not a blathering Marxist supporting idiot…definite case of ID theft…

        • braveheart

          Maybe BillyBob is related to nc joe.

        • BillyBobJumpingFrog

          NO….It’s ME!!

      • Kulafarmer

        Hey, were prepared! Talking about being prepared, thinking about stuff we may want to be prepared for!
        Never said we were short traders gambling our HARD earned dollars to make a buck,
        The site is SHTFplan.com
        Not im a troll who likes to interject useless info and criticism into little conversations people are having about various subjects dot commm

        Freedom of speech though so whatever

      • slingshot

        BBJF.

        I am happy you are making money in the markets. Actually it is not your money till you sell the shares/claims or receive dividends. Am I correct?
        Also I wonder who are the people you hang around with because most would not agree things are on the right track where I come from and most do not make enough money to invest in the market. Poverty and the low income bracket are increasing or have you not noticed
        All in due time.

      • IL woman

        Billybob….you have GOT to slow down on the koolaid. You are talking crazy.

      • braveheart

        Frog, you mean you’re rolling in money from trolling, don’t you?

      • Sigi

        I hope you really believe this BBJF- stay comfy, make sure you keep your fridge mostly empty so that the food is always fresh-from the store where you know it will always be. Take your old clothes to Goodwill and only buy new when the season is right. You don’t need gun, the government will take care o you- give it to the police and they’ll give you a gift certificate you can re-gift got Christmas. take care now and don’t bother coming back to hang out with these backward folks.

        To everyone else, /sarc. 😉

    19. Warchild

      .223 or .308,really depends on it’s current use,imagine more .223 available from the dead then .308,that said,needed more ammo probably didn’t survive all the fire fights!As all I have at moment is .223,well,that’s my number along with .45/buck-slug/.22/5mm air rifle(great for silent small game hunting)/crossbow/compound bow!I guess would choose box # 3,all of the above plus more that I cannot at moment afford but working on.On a side not ,the EBT mess was great,woke up a family member who now has a 6 month supply of basic stuff as a start in just 2 days along with some other preps including now looter deterrent!As always,live and enjoy today while prepping for tomorrow.

      • cossack55

        Some nice 12 guage booby trap/trip lines out there. Combine with tear gas, blank, tracer or Dragons Breath for early warning. Or if strapped, old mouse traps with a nail welded on the trip bar and voila’. Normally can only use once tho. Can find cheap at garage sales.

      • Kulafarmer

        Compound with broadheads, imagine the look on some fuckers face when his buddy who he was going to loot your house with falls in his lap with an arrow sticking out of his head! Priceless!

        • sixpack

          My Barnett C5 Wildcat will make a quick wall-hanging out of an intruder…I might need some help unpinning them, though, full-grown men are heavy.

    20. J-Bird

      I’m a beginner to prepping. Novice is more like it. I’m looking for a website where I can find other preppers in my area that I can contact and discuss things with. Anyone know of such a site?

      I’ve read a lot of the articles that are on the web about prepping and have started with some of the basic items that are on the list like water, food, medical supplies, etc. I’m a female and purchasing these types of items isn’t that difficult. It’s other items that I’m not sure about, like water filters, etc. I would like to be able to talk to ppl in my area about things like this.

      If anyone knows of such a site I’d appreciate it.

      • Patriot Man

        J – Start with this: http://tinyurl.com/ld5ovjj – that is shortened url. Good luck.

      • braveheart

        J-Bird, welcome aboard. This site, for one, is a good place to start. we’ll be happy to advise you on anything we can. There is a link on the left hand side of this page to American Preppers Network. they’re also a very good source of information.

      • Kulafarmer

        Check out Rawles Survival blog

        • J-Bird

          Kulafarmer….Thanks for the website. I think I may have found some ppl nearby that I can join.

          • Kulafarmer

            Luck to you!
            God Bless

    21. braveheart

      BI, AMEN about the .22LR. Most people get shocked when they find out what the venerable .22LR can really do. I bought my Ruger 10/22 back when they were $125 new in the box and still love it. You can get 25-round magazines for it. I tried one of the new 32-round magazines back in the summer and had some feeding issues. Never had that problem with the 25s. I’ve got more of that caliber stockpiled than my other calibers since I also have a couple of .22LR pistols. The .22 is what John Hinckley used on President Ronald Reagan when he tried to kill him on March 30, 1981. When Reagan was in the operating room he lost more than half of his blood. Hinckley also wounded Jim Brady, White House Chief of Staff. A .22 round severed his spinal cord and paralyzed him for life. Because of that ordeal, his wife Sara became a POS gun grabber. Go to Wikipedia and type in ‘Reagan Assassination Attempt’. Very interesting story on the incident. A .22LR WILL bring down someone as long as you shoot it in the right place. SHOT PLACEMENT IS ESSENTIAL.

      • REB

        Ive put alot of “government beef” in the freezer with a .22lr over the years…no problem dropping the hardest headed person alive with one…I plan on surviving not frontal attacks on trained troops…so Ill keep my .22

        • yental

          Multiple high capacity magazines in .22LR equals cheap, yet effective, suppression fire. A very under rated ballistic addition to the “armory” for many reasons.

          Lethal? Ask some ER and trauma doctors to “chime in”. I always “get-a-kick” out of firearms/ballistic comparisons and recommendations. Whatever caliber YOU can “aim small and hit with routinely” is the proper choice…PERIOD.

          I don’t need a firearm capable of “sniping” at 600 yards plus. Where I live, 100 yards is a very decent “line-of-sight”. Can I dispatch a “problem” at that range with a BI favorite (LR stinger.) Guaranteed! Is that my only firearm? NOPE!

          • braveheart

            Yental, my late beloved mrs braveheart was an OR nurse and saw numerous people brought in shot with a .22LR. .22LR will do the job. But I have to agree with Old Coach that it’s better to have some “heavier artillery” to stop the threat before it can do anything to you. I do have heavier artillery in my ventilation team.

          • Smokey

            Suppressing fire is right, buddy of mine has a 10/22 with a Gatling attachment, turn the crank, empty a 25-round magazine in two seconds. Three or four semi-auto .22s as part of your defensive team can put 200 rounds out in no time, aimed fire.

            Sure it’s a .22LR, but 125 ft/lbs in the elbow, knee, hand, neck, head, or internals is going to be very helpful to the centerfire shooters on the team.

            • Kulafarmer

              Suppresive fire,
              Thats what that bushmaster with the lightning link is for,

      • The Old Coach

        Thing is, I can reload .38 Special for less that the price of .22 rimfire these days, and get a lot more versatility out of it.

        And while a .22 will kill a man if he doesn’t get quick, modern medical care, it will not STOP a man quickly enough to keep him from harming or even killing you, unless he’s not serious about it anyway. STOPPING THE THREAT is what personal defense is all about. In a real P.D. situation you will have virtually zero chance of shot placement good enough to disable with the .22 rimfire. If the situation DOES allow you time to make that kind of placement, you should not be shooting at all, unless YOU are the aggressor.

        BTW most real gun cranks now recognize that the .223/5.56 loaded with varmint-style hollowpoints actually does less over-penetration than your handgun and shotgun loads when used indoors.

        • Average Guy

          TheOldCoach, 38 special will not STOP a man quickly enough to keep him from harming or even killing you either. Sometimes.

          That’s why the unitedstate army stopped using them after the war of conquest in the Philippines. There’s plenty of evidence and accounts to back that up.

        • REB

          With respect OC I have to say Ive killed a lot of deer and some hogs and even a few cattle with a .22 with one shot and the deer have often been out there a long ways…sometimes they run a ways but often Ive dropped them with one shot in the head where they stood…granted no round will do much good if a person cant shoot…Ive seen guys lose a deer after hitting it several times with .308 and 06…shot placement is everything…I have to disagree on the idea of a .22 not stopping a man dead in his tracks…

    22. erv

      The administrators at all of the schools in our area, private and public, just instituted a plan where the kids will go to a meeting place off campus and then be bussed to a pick up area where the parents can pick up the kids. This was put into place in the event of an armed intruder appearing at the school. I did not like this idea at all; but, it is hard to argue against it with the given premise. I am concerned that the plan could easily be implemented under other scenarios. Another concern is that the parent pick up place is an area with limited access and good line of site to see what is coming; this area can be easily controlled, before or after parents arrive.

      I will tell my kids to hustle to their grandmother’s when they get out of the building. Both my wife and I are nearby and will just meet them there.

    23. Raider

      I hate to say this, but as far as I can see, it’s true. If society in America gets to a major shtf situation, then it’s basically over.

      Think about it: We the people have had the ability to freely move about, eat our food, organize, etc. We the people have had the ability and time to do a lot of things which could have effectively put a stop to tyrannical government in America, yet tyranny in America has steadily grown, and is now multiplying under the usurper Obama.

      What do you think is going to be the fate of most Americans in a shtf situation where martial law is imposed? Regardless of how many bugout supplies a person has or not, it’s over.

      If while the wood was green, we didn’t stop tyranny while we had the chance, do you think we will stop tyranny while the wood is dry? No.

    24. jlk

      Daisy,

      Good article!

      But, imho, many comments were a bit heavy on topic of firearm use!

      We all need to remember that most cities have sophisticated acoustic detection systems that can point swarms of trigger-happy police to you and your home. [Remember Miles Kendrick (Walter Mattau) in the movie ‘Hopscotch’? Remember how the house was riddled with bullets?]

      As preliminary alternative to firearms, consider the lowly can of hornet spray. It’s very simple to keep an inexpensive can of hornet spray handy.

      Another consideration: A wireless surveillance system (e.g., Lorex Technology). At least (over your dead body) there can be digital recording of the intruder(s). Moreover, the surveillance cameras might even serve as an early alert.

      • Not so Much

        “most cities have sophisticated acoustic detection systems…”

        You have a link to that?

    25. NC joe

      AR-15 gets my vote. My wife can handle it if necessary. Can carry a lot of ammo, plus the ammo is more affordable than .308. Another advantage is there will be a lot of AR-15’s and ammo available since many idiot, loud mouthed preppers have them and cannot keep their mouths shut about it. Plus, the AR-15 seems to give them a false sense of invincibility, so it will be very easy to separate them from their weapons and preps. I just love Rambo wannabees.

      • braveheart

        Well, ncjoe, none of us have any use for dickheaded trolls like you, so that makes us even, BTW, go f#$% yourself!

      • Smokey

        Your wife is a Rambo wannabee?

        You might want to discuss that with her, it’s a dead end.

      • Not so Much

        ” My wife can handle it if necessary”

        being a liberal, I’m betting your wife can handle a lot more than that. *wink wink**

    26. PrepperDude

      Me = SKS
      Wife = AR 15

      We’ll have each others back in the bell tower.
      Zombie’s be aware!

    27. Satori

      America’s new ‘economic guillotine’ is dead ahead

      http://www.marketwatch.com/story/americas-new-economic-guillotine-is-dead-ahead-2013-10-16?link=MW_popular

      ” Today, Credit Suisse data reveal that just 1% own 46% of the world, while two-thirds of the world’s people have less than $10,000 wealth.”

      thats right
      1% of the population owns 46% of the worlds wealth

      and we have people yelling and screaming about food stamps
      and people on SSDI !!!

      ha ha ha
      too funny
      we’re a nation of dumb asses

      TPTB are laughing themselves silly over our foolishness

      • The Old Coach

        Good point, as far as it goes. But the 1% are using the Free Shit army to guarantee the election of Halfricans whom they can control. Eliminate the FSA, and the middle class will get it’s groove back.

        • Satori

          exactly right Coach

          the key word is USING

    28. Huh!

      As I stated yesterday at another site with this article…It reads like a condensed re-write of Dave Hodges better written article that came out previously to this one.
      Blah Blah more of the same ole stuff…
      Is the advertising business doing that poorly?
      Daisy doesn’t even comment any more on comments to her own articles.

      • Outlaw

        Could you please submit the article that you wrote, for comparison to Daisy’s?
        Or are you doing anything? Other than criticizing others efforts?

      • braveheart

        Huh! you back off from Daisy. she has a whole community of people here to defend her. If you think you can do any better, let’s see you submit an article, retard!

    29. Mini-14.

      I,ll be adding another x-mas gun for underneath the tree this year again. Can never have to much key firepower at your disposal. Lets see one one the night stand, one at the door way,one on my person,always. And twenty more in the safe.

    30. Anon

      ‘Don’t make fun of the US Government, it is already a joke’ – expert on US debt crisis

      US President Barack Obama early on Thursday signed legislation that ends a US government shutdown and raises the US debt ceiling. The US Congress has passed a bill to reopen the government and raise the federal debt limit, with hours to spare before the nation risked default. The Voice of Russia discussed this issue with George Koo, who specializes in relations between US and China, and business strategies for Asia.
      In his statement Mr. Obama made on the shutdown on Thursday he said that people are fed up with Washington. Do you agree with that?
      I’ve learned one line recently, I think it was coming from China, actually, which is – don’t make fun of the US Government, it is already a joke.
      Still, do you have an impression that people are more or less fed up with those crises or you think people just don’t care?
      I think most people who are aware of what is going on must care of the travesty of the so-called democracy that is in Washington. You have a minority of members of the House trying to dictate what the Government and what the country should do. It has been a joke, there is no way around it.
      If we look at this shutdown and the reasons of it, different people say different things. Some say it is just a matter of politics. Some say it is really a matter of fundamental differences between the two parties. What is your point on that?
      It is a fundamental difference but it is really not between the two parties, it is between the majority of the feelings of the people in Congress versus a minority of the so-called Tea Party members. The Tea Party members don’t really care about what is in the best national interests, much less what is in the global economic interests. They are just totally irresponsible, totally insistent on their point of view prevailing, even though they are a minority voice.
      Do you see any chance that before mid January, before February they will be able to somehow reach some compromise or we will see the same thing again in a few months?
      There is an old fable about the boy who cried “Wolf!”. And he cried “Wolf!” for three times and after that people completely ignored him. And my concern is that if Congress cannot come to a resolution (and they are supposed to come to a resolution by December 13th), if they don’t do it – that will be the third time. And I think pretty soon, if not already, countries around the world are starting to look at the long-term value of the dollar with a great deal of suspicion.
      And is that risky for the global economy – this weakening of the dollar?
      Long-term weakening of the dollar is one thing. And I think that’s started during the financial crisis of 2008. But to renege on the debt – that is catastrophic, because that would instantly declare the value of the dollar from whatever its worth is to zero, because it is worthless. And that has to raise a lot of concern all around the world and has to worry a lot of people. I think we’ve talked in the past about how China has begun these bilateral swap agreements to avoid exposure to holding too many dollars.
      But China is not the only one. Recently South Korea has entered into many of these same bilateral swap agreements just to avoid having to use the dollar as the settlement currency between the two countries in trade. Turkey has done it, India has been doing it, more and more countries are going away from using the dollar. So, eventually, dollar will cease to be. It is a long-term eventual, but eventually the dollar will cease to be the preferred reserve currency for the world.
      Read more: http://voiceofrussia.com/2013_10_18/Don-t-make-fun-of-the-US-Government-it-is-already-a-joke-expert-on-US-debt-crisis-8199/

      • The Old Coach

        It’s ironic that we now get more accurate news from Russia than from our own media. If you’d told me 40 years ago that this would be happening in 2013 I would have laughed in your face, and then had you committed.

        • Mountain Trekker

          Coach unbelieveable, better and more news on Communist China news channel than American MSM. Trekker Out.

          • Sigi

            I forgot to add- the Russian media also seemed to think that Bill Clinton’s dalliance with Ms. Lewinski was some sort of a romance.

        • Sigi

          You still shouldn’t trust the Russian news media. They are Putin’s trained dogs; any who get out of line end up dying of mysterious and never solved acts of gun violence in a country with strong firearms restrictions or of conveniently timed ‘accidents.’ Beside that, they also love sensationalism and don’t always follow up to verify facts.

          • sixpack

            “Beside that, they also love sensationalism and don’t always follow up to verify facts”

            I guess that means the difference between them and OUR MSM is, our media NEVER bothers to verify ANY facts.

    31. Anonymous

      Don’t get out much, do you?

      This type of scenario exists only in people’s imaginations.

      To, unfortunately, too great of a degree, you all feed on each other.

      The realistic threat is the insidious creep of Communist policies being enacted by this Administration. For that, the only cure is conservative political leaders drawing the line, saying no and fighting politically. Beyond that, a military coup.

      The guys with the guns always win, and the guys with the biggest guns always win.

      • J. Roy

        Hmm…Interesting philosophy about he size of guns…ever hear of Vietnam? Afghanistan (any war)?

        The biggest guys with the biggest guns do not always win…but that is how to bet.

        • Anonymous

          Vietnam was not fought to win, and Afghanistan is not being fought to win.

          The Gulf War is the most recent war that was fought to win, and it was over in 100 days, in large part due to the mass surrenders by Iraqi troops.

          With all due respect and honor to those who fought the Revolutionary War, in today’s society a bunch of guerilla fighters roughly organized in regions or even smaller organizational units across the country will not constitute the same effectiveness of a U.S. military coup. The U.S. military are the guys with the biggest guns, both here and worldwide. They, and they alone, would determine the winners and the losers, if it ever came to that.

          Let’s hope this can be resolved politically. A good first step for Obama would be to exile Valerie Jarrett and renounce all ties to the socialist/communist elements in our government and society. But that would take a rather large miracle…..

      • Kulafarmer

        Hey the trolls are really out today, guess the NSA went back to work,
        Nice to see the hard earned tax dollars going to good use!

        • Sigi

          They are downright disgusting on Breitbart. If anyone feels like playing whack-a-troll, that’ the place to be. It’s like an infestation of cockroaches.

          • Kulafarmer

            Im convinced most all of the trolls on sites like this are associated with the government in some way, either they play on their computer at work or are nsa ssholes

      • Unreconstructed Southron

        The Viet Cong and Taliban say hello.

      • Kulafarmer

        I dont know if your theory on gun size rings true, looks like more of a stalemate going on wherever the big guns are fighting the little guns lately,
        Just an observation,

      • M

        Near as I can tell , capitalism , communism , socialism what the fuck everism. Eventually end up about the same.

        .1 % who own eveything
        .9 % who think they own everything
        9 % elite sycophants
        10 % enforcers guns , chains , clipboard rectal worms
        78 % obedient kool aid sheep
        2 % who have a mild to wild set of clues about what the fuck is really going on

    32. Be informed

      Number 16 of the precursor earthquakes that say a very large earthquake is coming. This one is right at the junction point between thew African, Australian, and Antarctic plate. When this exact spot was hit before 80% of the time a big earthquake followed. In Dec of 1979 after this precise point was hit an 8.1 followed in Ecuador. Other 7’s also followed after this, but the 8.1 shows that somethin massive is coming, way larger than the 7.2 in the Philippines, and the 6.8 or 7.1 in New Guinea that just hit. You would think that it would calm down a bit, NO. The areas match that other precursor quakes are pointing towards. 16 times it says at least a 7.5+ is coming, likely something bigger. The same areas mnetioned before remain quite hot.

      • Night breaker

        Bi ,
        There is something going on, see how the Quake magnitudes are trending up .
        There seems to be a lot of potential energy locked up and not releasing .
        Looks like your predictions are uncannily accurate. You should really consider writing a paper on this for peer review. When I read your stuff it reminds me of Louise Alveres and his discovery of the KT boundary layer and theory of the end of the dinosaurs by an impact event some thing no one else thought of, but the empirical evidence pointed this to be a possible event.
        Sometimes looking at a puzzle in a different way enables one to see what others have missed.
        Many scientific discoveries have been determined by one individual with a different insight.

        What is your best guess to where the Mega Quake may occur, New Madrid ? North East US via undiscovered Fault line? Could the St Laurence River Basin / Hudson River Basin bear the surface characteristics of a buried Fault line?

        An event of a large Quake on the east coast would be unprecedented the impact would be catastrophic most of the structures are older and would not stand up well to severe seismic event.

        Semper Fi 8541

        • Be informed

          @ Nightbreaker. Right now a mega quake of 8.5+ is pointing towards the Cascadia fault zone, soouthern Alaska especially the Aleutians, Eastern Russia to the Kuril Islands, Japan again, India/Chinese border region, Ecuador to northern Chile. All other areas I mentioned before are below the 8.5 threshold.

          Even through the perceived earthquake from the New Madrid would feel like a 9 because of the dense rock underground, the actually energy released probably would be low 8 maximum. The St. Lawrence seaway actually worries me more than the New Madrid fault because of the closeness to the the horizontal V shape movement of the African, North American, and the South American/Caribbean plate to the south. You can see the splitting apart and pulling going on here with New Brunswick, Nova Scotia, and New Foundland provinces. The area around Quebec is rated as high in seismic energy potential as the New Madrid fault. Compare this with the Gulf Of California and it looks magnitudes more fragmented almost like the crust has been grinded to death. The energy is not at this time directed towards these areas for anything huge, thankfully for the time being. Not to say a 6 pointer could not hit, but not likely a more severe quake.

          • Kulafarmer

            Damn man, now i wont get any sleep tonight! Be waiting to hear the tsunami sirens!

            • Be informed

              @ Kulafarmer. Check out the earthquake on the USGS map that is at the triple junction point of the African/Australian/Antarctic plates. This was the 16th time there has been an earthquake that has past records that show a whopper followed. With this one in 1976 a 8.1 in Ecaudor hit after this exact spot had a moderate quake on it. These percursor quakes already forecasted the Philippines earthquake of 7.2, I posted a comment that the percursor quakes showed something in the low 7 range and 8 minutes later it hit. That freaked me out. The New Guinea 6.8 or 7.1 was also forecasted. These movements point to something quite large coming.

              I thought that maybe after having two major quakes it might calm down. Then you have yet another one saying a huge quake is coming. I have looked at hundreds of these past earthquake records and you just don’t see these precursor divergent zones showing one after the other 8 pointers and 9’s that followed after these areas had their moderate quakes. It shows that energy is being tranferred to these less locked areas from something that is large enough to affect the whole planet. That means at least a 7.5, but likely something much larger. Most of the time these percursor quakes have major earthquakes following that are 6.5 to low 7. Not with this sequence.

              • Mountain Trekker

                BI hate to be critical, but did you ever hear of Jean Dixon, made thousands of predictions. Had one or two that came to pass and was hailed as a great seer. I guess that’s the way the game is played. Trekker Out.

          • The Old Coach

            Well, I guess that about covers it. Somewhere in the world, sometime in the future, there’ll be a big earthquake. Easy to be “right” when the “prediction” covers that much ground….. This is becoming a crashing bore, B.I. You’ve gotta do better than that.

    33. Anon

      Enough is enough; we sit at our keyboards, text on our phones and expel hot air all the day long. We complain about what the government is doing now, what they have done, and what they are going to do. Has any of that stopped them NO.? Until someone stands up to take the lead, and we the people get the guts to follow him/her and take up our PDW’s, because that friends is the only way they will know that we are truly serious about taking back this country. If that moment ever comes and we shove our keyboards and phones aside, stand tall and start to physically take it back; nothing will ever change, because they get stronger and we get weaker. If the take back ever begins in earnest; make them fire the first shot. We are just fooling ourselves if we don’t get off our hind parts and start now! I for one am willing to go all the way.
      NOMI

      • REB

        Not everyone who posts comments is an armchair warrior…many here are doing things besides being ready to survive…do what you can where you are with what you have…encourage others when you can…browbeating people into feeling bad about not being able to do anything more than they can do isn’t really going to help…what are you doing besides being willing to go all the way?….how does that help unless you do what you are suggesting…Im not critizizing you but I see this type of post from time to time stating that no one else is doing anything but that they(the writer)are more than ready to do something…I say have at it then, whos stopping you?…good luck in whatever efforts you actually end up doing for libertys cause…

      • On the path

        Perhaps there is an underground movement at a higher level that we are not yet aware of. I can’t believe the average person here and other similar sites are the only ones that take notice of the runaway train to hades. OPSEC is for a reason. Just food for thought, mabe wishful thinking at this late stage.

        • JRS

          Interesting thought, On the path.

          It could be possible, but I’m still waiting for those “mass arrests” that were supposed to happen a year ago.

    34. Barn Cat

      We have guns and ammo. Extra gasoline for my stepson and his wife to get here if necessary. We don’t travel far. I haven’t been out of state in four years. And of course we have a year’s supply of food and water. A way to heat our home and cook our food. 5 gallon buckets with snap-on toilet seats to use as toilets, garbage bags to line them, and kitty litter to cover the smell.

      • M

        cedar chips do a compost toilet maketh

    35. ready down under

      I think the question of 223 v 308 is moot. Remember, you are not a signatory to the Geneva Convention so you arent restricted to FMJ’s and frankly anyone who uses them in a home invasion/protection from looters/mob situation is a fool. Use a fast expanding soft point – massive energy dump without over penetration. A soft point does a lot of damage, even in a non vital area whereas an FMJ may still leave the bad guy able to return fire. Also, in this scenario we were talking about protecting your home, probably in an urban environment. In that case the distance will be measured in feet (and not very many of them!) not in hundreds of yards – if a looter with a gun is 300 yards away he is someone elses problem.

      If you are inside your house a shotty with any size shot at all will do, even trap loads. How far is it from your front door to where you would be waiting using a corner as cover? Ten feet? Fifteen? A face or chest full of skeet loads at 15 feet will take the fight out of anyone. Remember looters are cowards, working on mob mentality – if the first few guys leading the pack through your front door are wiped out in front of them by a determined guy inside with a shotty the guys behind will lose their evil intentions real fast, probably wet their pants and run like rabbits. What to do with the bodies? Leave them there, lets any others know you aint an easy target – they’ll go somewhere else.

      For home defense, from the inside, a shotgun is second to none. Handguns are a convenient way to have a gun with you at all times but should not be relied upon as your sole means of defense. Rifles come into their own as the range increases – the further away the possibility of engaging bad guys becomes the larger and more precise the piece needs to be.

      Also, effective fire is always more important than the number of shots fired. What will keep you safe and protect your families will be one well placed bullet into the centre of mass – emptying a few magazines from an AK wont save you if they all miss!

      Aussie

      • Patriot Man

        @ Aussie, great analysis. Speaking strictly for home invaders, my Sig P228 w/ laser gets me to my Rem 870 mag/speed stock/surefire 25 tactical. 870 mag = 8 shots – 7 dead – zero misses.

      • Shifty

        Excellent points, Aussie. By the way, apologies for the dumbass thumbs down you received. My fault. Apparently, I am highly uncoordinated.

      • Outlaw

        Good points Aussie. The shotty has been and will be my go to weapon for home defense. When asking the question, it was general and not specifically related to the article. More specifically I am looking for something for the battle ahead of us, not against the golden hoard, but the tyrants. I hope that it will not be fought on my front lawn, within 15 feet range. Also hoped to start hunting next month with the future rifle. My buddy has one I can use to hunt with, but was just thinking maybe it is time to take the plunge. The reason I am debating between the 308 and 556 is because of the proliferation of those type of firearms in our country. Easy access to parts and ammo, etc. The other reason for the debate between the two is that I can only afford ONE of them. Otherwise I’d purchase both. 🙂
        Thank you for the input though, good points and spot on with the article!

        • ready down under

          Thanks Outlaw …..

          308. No doubt about it. Even though we cant have semi auto’s here anymore I’d be happy with a good bolt action anyway. Simple, rugged and if you get a BDM you can get 10 shot mags. Good second hand Rem 700 wont break the bank, put a good scope on it (Leupold?) and spend the rest on ammo. Ruger Scout looks like a good piece to me too. To simplify things stick to one brand/weight of bullet – 150Gr soft points will take care of anything from looters to deer and with careful placement game even bigger.

          Keep calm, shoot straight and we’ll make it out the other side.

          Aussie

          • slingshot

            RDU

            Rem. Model 700 3x9x50 with rings Luepold Vari lll. $1000.
            165gr. 30.06 3 rounds same hole 100 yds. Benched.

            • ready down under

              Slingshot – cant argue against that, I wouldnt like to be 400 yards away from you if you didnt like me 🙂

              Aussie

      • braveheart

        Aussie, that’s what I have “Bertha” for. If a mob comes to my place, hopefully taking out the first one or two with 00 buck with make believers out of the others and they won’t be able to get away from my place fast enough. “Bertha” will most certainly have a role to play in the defense of my humble abode. braveheart

      • Kulafarmer

        Ah grass hopper,
        Excellent post

    36. Shifty

      What happened to Eisenkreuz?

      • Unreconstructed Southron

        Government shutdown turned off his computer in his cell.

        • sixpack

          Yeah, but he’ll be back.

      • braveheart

        Who cares what happened to eisen as long as he stays away from here. One less troll to deal with.

        • Shifty

          I care, simply because his dumbass comments made me laugh.

    37. Trailer Park Investor

      Helps to throw some old clothes on the front porch and the front yard, making your house look like it has already been looted. You can also take your screen door and brake it down making it look more real.
      But IF they are smart they will look to see if your front door is still shut and locked, that’s the true give away that someone is home and they have something to hide. That means you have something to defend.
      Good Luck

      • Smokey

        Make your house look empty and you are inviting people who want to move in and live.

        Think community defense, keep ’em away from all of you.

    38. shadowstep

      What works is what you got! And the will to use it! First one to decide wins !

    39. Buzzfix

      Oh just set up sandbags and let those charging handles fly! 😉

    40. shadowstep

      Very good trailerpark , agree withyou

    41. Be informed

      BillyBobJumpingBullFrog. FORGET ABOUT NATIONAL OR EVEN LOCAL SHTF. Forget about it and let’s talk home invasion by your common meth head or other criminal. Obvious you are a pro-BO supporter that wants to disarm America. When Matt Meth Head comes into your home late at night and wants whatever you have to get their next fix, what do you do? When MM Head has a nice lead pipe or buthcer’s cleaver in one hand and is coming at you, what do you do? BO would say call 911 and 15 minutes later the police arrive to zip you up into a nice body bag.

      You seem to refer to everyone as Rambo here. NO, it is self defense of yourself, your family, your property, your lifeline that is your food and other supplies. It is not Rambo that people want to be fighting against some