Greek Power Regulator Calls Emergency Meeting to Avert Collapse of Power Grid and Natural Gas System

by | Jun 3, 2012 | Headline News | 285 comments

Do you LOVE America?


    When the political and economic systems of entire nations collapse the consequences are devastating.

    Earlier this year pharmacies and hospitals in Greece were unable to provide life saving medicines due to a shortages caused by a freeze in the flow of credit from manufacturers to distributors to patients. A collapse in the country’s economy has forced many Greeks to turn to black market barter economies and has left millions financially devastated, with no hope of finding an income stream for the foreseeable future.

    The credit system of the entire country is in shambles. So much so that reports are emerging about food shortages and hunger within the Greek prison system, suggesting that serious problems in the food delivery chain have begun to materialize.

    As Nigel Farage warned recently, we are beginning to see the rise of extreme political parties as a consequence of  the total and utter desperation of the populace.

    Today the news gets even worse. Greece’s Regulatory Authority for Energy (RAE) announced an emergency meeting to deal with what can only be construed as a tell-tale sign that this crisis is very rapidly reaching critical mass and may spiral out of control in the very near future:

    Greece’s power regulator RAE told Reuters on Friday it was calling an emergency meeting next week to avert a collapse of the debt-stricken country’s electricity and natural gas system.

    “RAE is taking crisis initiatives throughout next week to avert the collapse of the natural gas and electricity system,” the regulator’s chief Nikos Vasilakos told Reuters.

    RAE took the decision after receiving a letter from Greece’s natural gas company DEPA, which threatened to cut supplies to electricity producers if they failed to settle their arrears with the company.

    Source: Reuters

    You may have thought the financial collapse of 2008 was bad.

    That was just a warm up. The main event is staring us in the face, and the whole of Europe has front row seats.

    We’ve repeatedly warned about what author James Rawles portrays in his fictional yet prescient account of the effects an economic collapse has on a society. In his book Patriots (and his follow up Survivors) Rawles details the loss of confidence in a nation’s currency and credit, a collapse of basic services, the emergence of bartering, the collapse of power grids and supply infrastructure due to lack of money and labor, the rise of political extremes, and even the civil unrest and war that follows.

    Do you still think this can only happen in fiction novels?

    We are now seeing the first signs of this happening inside of the European Union – the largest economic zone in the world.

    If there’s is one thing we can surmise based on the last four years, it’s that the contagion is spreading and it cannot be contained.

    Today it’s Greece. Tomorrow it could be your hometown.


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      1. Take note we are going to have the same issues soon.

        • Amazing that the conditions on the ground in Greece are not being reported.
          Does anyone have a link or suggestion where one can look to get valid and up to date information?
          I am very curious as to the situation on the ground in Greece.
          By the way, it is very frustating to read a post about Manos that says ” Things are horrible”, with no details. Sorry, but I want gory details.

          • The news is being blocked by TPTB and a complicit media. Just the same way in which very little was not reported about Iceland throwing off their debt, the truth will be hidden about the subjugation to the international bankers that the Greeks are under.

            • you know, the fact that TPTB are blocking the reality news and the fact that we know this..makes them complicit in every dam bit of freakin stupid do they think we are? this is only going to solidify our resolve when it comes to their shit, and develop a deeper distrust of them and everything they say or do (if thats even possible)

            • I know this won’t be as “up to date” as you might want, and he’s only one guy, but Glenn Beck was just in Greece about three weeks ago, and had a bunch of broadcasts about it…maybe they can be viewed at The Blaze website? Just throwin’ it out there

            • Their day is coming…sooner than they would like.

              They think they will be exempt from the carnage.

              Not a fucking chance.

          • I was just in Greece a week ago and it’s far from “collapsing”. My wife and I travelled all around, both inside and outside of typical tourist areas. We spoke with locals and while there were widespread concerns about the political future of the country…..there was no evidence of any of these dramatic predictions coming true in the near future. Obviously I can’t speak for the entirety of Greece, but traveling around the country for 2 weeks gave us a pretty good sense that a collapse is not “imminent” in the way that it’s being described by some. I’m sure there are people that are suffering the effects of the recession there, but I can’t tell you how anticlimactic it is to see what’s going on firsthand….which is very little that can be described as dramatic.

            • My aunt felt the same when she come back last time Dan, but I think it is very different when you live there and see the decline week on week.

              Glad you enjoyed your time there

              Take care

            • Dan

              You think seeing nothing dramatic is anticlimactic?


              Did you want to see crap happening to the Greeks? I am sure the Greeks will be very disappointed that there was not enough drama for you. Maybe you should let them know you are going next time, they can arrange a public suicide or two for you and the wife to watch.

              You are a disgrace Dan

            • Not sure why there are 2 completely different Burt the Brit responses….but whatever.

              I think you missed the point I was trying to make. I’m the last person that wants to see Greeks suffer, in fact one of the reasons we were there was to visit with Greek friends.

              Perhaps anticlimactic was an imperfect word choice. What I was trying to emphasize is that the reality doesn’t really bear out what some doomsayers are describing. So if you believed the worst case scenario descriptions on the internet, then you would be suprised to find out that life in Greece is actually reasonably mundane. Yes there are serious economic problems afoot. Will those cause Greece to degenerate into anarchy and chaos? I don’t think so.

            • @Dan:

              Something you may not have considered… the areas you visited likely took in a lot of foreign (to them) currency, and also took in a lot of fresh money from the tourist trade.

              so naturally, such areas would be doing far better than areas where tourist money doesn’t come in, and far better than in areas where foreign currencies can be quickly sold for fantastic sums (or simply used as-is but with far greater purchasing power) on the local black market.

              Not saying that’s the case, but I can definitely see it happening.

            • ~~~I was just in Greece a week ago and it’s far from “collapsing”……there was no evidence of any of these dramatic predictions coming true in the near future. ~~~

              Oh, you mean just like here???

            • @ Dan ; I have read several of Burt the Brit’s responses and the second response just does not sound like her.

              There have been some odd things going on…on this site.

              have a good day Dan.

          • rick
            just google greek news papers and there is alot of them.


            • Dan

              I am the Burt the Brit with the auntie post, I always sign off the same way. The second post is not genuine.

              Take care

          • Go to web site- has graphic short film of exactly what is going on.

          • I work in the international maritime business and visit Greece frequently. I even maintain a small apartment in a working class suburb of Athens, and will provide an update soon.

          • UPDATE: The EURO collapsed years ago, along with the dollar…If you are holding dollars for security (because everyone knows the dollar is the ULTIMATE curr.)
            Get rardy to wipe yourself with all your American money…GOLD SILVER LEAD…metals…..worth their weight since before water….dont be fooled by our friends at cnbc…..They wont even (since fri.) show the immediate after hours numbers??? Why do all their interviews WTF the “plan” is coming together perfectly….OPERATE IN PLAIN SIGHT AND THE STUPID AMERICANS WONT EVEN NOTICE….A sincere good luck to you all….Why are ALL their guests comments interupted by “maria”with a prepared “everything appears to be turning around …when actually the WORLD economy has turned to shit long ago… If you think your dollars are going to buy you ANYTHING in the future?…I guess you must have bumped your head….. or that baolgna smoker “ty”…..WHY are we bombarded by the media that now is the “perfect” time to buy???A fool and his money….well you know the rest…

        • Something doesn’t sound right. The collapse of fiat money and the downing of the electric grid and gas systems are totally unrelated.

          Sounds like a bankster threat…

          You defy us and we will destroy your power grid.

          The emergency meeting should focus on how to best protect the People of Greece from the banksters in the future, and how to prevent them from destroying the grid in the present.

          • Nothing is “unrelated” to anything else. If money – the means of exchange – becomes worthless, a lot of things stop happening smoothly. Workers who work for money stop working, or seek out other means of income. This may mean if you are an engineer at an electric you simply quit, or the public has to compensate them in some other way besides money to make them stay on the job. Power plants do not run themselves.

            • If money becomes worthless, it is only because the emergency meeting failed to address the urgent need for a replacement currency separate from the banksters papers to run the economy. Lincolns interest free greenbacks, for example, were such a tool.

              The problem with the grid employees not showing up for no pay would be the result of the failure to address the correct problem. It will not be the cause of the grid failure, the grid failure is a result of other failures.

              On a human scale, I think many men and women would readily volunteer to do whatever it took to keep it running if they were made aware of the facts and saw the problems being addressed in a sensible way.

              The point is, the power grid need not be affected by a fiat money collapse unless such effect is needed by the banksters to send an example to other countries of what will happen if the banksters are ignored.

              It’s all about where the “money” comes from, and how long the People will be stupid enough to believe it is best provided by unaccountable private banks engaged in organized crime.

              That is the ONLY fight in Greece, and will be the only fight here as well.

            • The people who work and run the power plants may well work without being paid for the good of their people. but I can gurandamtee you the folks who sell them the coal, nat gas, will just send their ships to a port where the will be paid for there goods. spurious argument. think it through.

            • It is not just about paying the workers it is about who owns the utilities now. Part of the deal for getting a second loan from the European Union was that they put up certain national assets. If they default then those assets go the the ones who gave the loan. So Greece may no longer own their own water or electric plants etc. So the new owners can run them and export the power or water to those who WILL pay for them. I don’t know what the specifics of the deal was but I remember reading what was possibly going to be on the table and thinking they would be crazy to agree to any of it.

          • This is nothing to do with the ‘collapse’ of money. The opposite. Money is highly valuable but not available to pay for the gas.

            • The Greek government can print as much money for internal use as is required. The problem is that such use of common sense would cut out the banksters and make them take a 100% loss on their fraudulent claims to the wealth of Greece.

              Cut out the banksters and the problems will resolve themselves in record time.

              One word proves it…


            • @Barn Cat

              It’s highly unlikely that hyperinflation would ever be a problem for the dollar. As the de facto world reserve currency, it won’t happen. Could the dollar lose value against other currencies? Yes. Could the dollar be slowly replaced by a basket of other currencies as the world reserve currency? Maybe. Would we experience Argentine, or Weimaraner hyperinflation in the U.S.? No.

          • “Something doesn’t sound right. The collapse of fiat money and the downing of the electric grid and gas systems are totally unrelated.”

            Not necessarily.

            Without an acceptable form of money, the utility company cannot purchase materials (coal, oil and gas, usually) from which to generate electricity. They also cannot reliably buy replacement parts, make payroll, and a whole host of other things needed to keep a typical business running.

            In the case of gas companies (natural gas), they become unable to maintain the equipment, pipelines, and payroll needed to keep running. Petroleum refineries need to purchase the crude in bulk, buy gas/fuel to run the refinery itself, and pay their workers.

            Even down at the gas station level, each gas station buys its petroleum from wholesalers, who may indeed jack the prices up themselves just to try and stay alive. Those gas stations who can manage those payments will in turn have to jack prices up just to stay afloat.

            Logistics determine pricing from there: A busy gas station needs new shipments multiple times a day, most city and suburban gas stations get new deliveries once every day or two, and even way out here in the sticks where I live, the local town gas station here usually gets a new shipment of gas once a week, and a new shipment of diesel once every two-three days (most of that bought by the local logging companies for their trucks and equipment – go figure).

            • “””Without an acceptable form of money, the utility company cannot purchase materials (coal, oil and gas, usually) from which to generate electricity. They also cannot reliably buy replacement parts, make payroll, and a whole host of other things needed to keep a typical business running.”””

              All the more reason to get control of the money back into the hands of the People and away from the criminal element that now holds control.

              There is no other emergency to address.

            • @GC:

              I’ve recently done a LOT of research into monetary systems (it’s for a book), and I gotta say it…

              Making a functioning and stable money/economic system from nothing? It’s effing *hard*. If you don’t do it right, it falls apart in a hurry. Why? Counterfeiting, dilution of basis value, inflation/deflation, loss of faith, loss of backing, hoarding, and dozens of other reasons.

              Transitioning form one to another is effing *harder* still. By an order of magnitude.

              It’s one thing to say it… but actually doing it, even as a thought exercise, is a royal bitch.

              * For the curious, I eventually had to cast aside fiat money (easy to do), scrip, and commodity money (too easy to counterfeit, shave, dilute, etc)… and settled for representative (that is, “backed”) money. I just barely got together how to establish value and provide initial circulation. Now I just gotta figure out how to avoid counterfeiting and control all the usual economic bugaboos like inflation and basis value maintenance…

              …and do that in a post-collapse world.

              Neither fun or easy, I can damned sure tell you that.

            • OQ:

              The Constitution already establishes a sound monetary system. All that is needed is to reinstate it. There is no need to start from scratch.

              I am sure you traced the history of Notes, and the wording changes over the decades.

              It would be much more simple to place the words “pay to the bearer on demand” back on the money than you might think, and to remove the “federal reserve not” from the same.

              That is easily accomplished by the United States treasury printing non interest bearing currency and using it to replace, dollar for dollar, all outstanding FRNs in circulation.

              Repudiate all debt as a fraud, and surrender the stockholders of the Federal Reserve to our “creditors”.

              What is effin hard is finding a politician with integrity who understands how simple the solution really is.

              Most, such as you, are falling for the banksters theory that money is too complicated for the People to manage. The economy can transition easily to a new currency if it is an honest one.

              If Ron Paul came out and announced he was enacting my solution as President, there would be no pause in commerce and no disruption in trade.

              Study hard, then you will reach the conclusion that most of what is said is meant to steer you away from changing the system because it is too hard, when the reality is that all it takes is a new printer with integrity and bound by existing Law.

            • Dude, seriously, most of what you wrote is impossible… not due to politics, but because you fail to understand a few things:

              1) Debt is not in and of itself a fraud. It is a contract willingly entered into by two (or more) parties. Only a child or a similarly ignorant person doesn’t know what they’re signing up for when they take on debt.

              2) No, it is not as simple as replacing a few words on banknotes. If you’re moving away from fiat currency, you need something to back it with. Given that Fort Knox (and similar depositories) are either empty or holding someone else’s gold, the government would have to start accumulating a rather massive pile of the stuff before they could back any new currency with anything. Doing that would take time… time they, and we, really don’t have.

            • OQ says

              “””1) Debt is not in and of itself a fraud. It is a contract willingly entered into by two (or more) parties. Only a child or a similarly ignorant person doesn’t know what they’re signing up for when they take on debt.”””

              Debt, when what is borrowed is fraudulently created, is, in fact, a fraud. When people are lead to believe they are borrowing MONEY (something of value), but are really just given fictitious credits created by their own signature, it is a fraud against them. How can you go into debt when what you are borrowing is debt itself?

              When the system is based on a fraud, everything that happens within it is also a fraud.

              As for a currency change, it could be done QUICKLY if done honestly and transparently. your stand that it can not is what the banksters want you to believe.

          • They haven’t paid for the natural gas. Threatening to stop deliveries seem reasonable. If people don’t pay me rent, I can’t pay my bills, including any mortgage on the building they’re living in

        • I would be up for sending some money to Mac to forward to Manos to do some on the ground reporting for us.

          It would help everyone, especially Manos and his family.

          • Has anyone heard from Manos lately?

            • I’m all for a Manos fund. If we can get a real Manos. lots of shit out there pretending to be people. Manos has added to our forum, has shared his trials. if we can nail this idea down I’m all for it. At some point we will need to stand with those who need our help. Max

            • Manos is probably in the best place right now.

              Greece is being forced to deal with the realities of the banker deception before it goes worldwide.

              When countries start to fall like dominoes, you are going to see some serious over-reaction by governments, and populations blind-sided by banks going belly-up.

              At least the Greeks have a chance to turf out the government stooges peacefully via the ballot box.

          • RL ~

            I have pleaded with Manos until I’m blue in the face to let us help. I really like your idea! I hope Mac will take this under consideration!

            I heard from him earlier today and he was in pretty good spirits. He’d just gone on a long bike ride. 🙂


        • You’re right, trouble is coming here and it’s going to have kittens.
          Just thank the Lord that He has given you the grace to understand. With that you will be far ahead of the others.

        • Our federal government will collapse long before our military will collapse. The mass arrests of traitorous scum from Obama and Brenanke on down is something that every military and law enforcement officer must choose to be on the right or wrong side of. Please don’t compare America to shit-world countries. Unlike almost every shit-world country out there, the people are armed to the teeth and the real power comes from the bottom up. Contrary any illusions you may have, America is not the sad, defeated country that the majority of other countries out there are.

        • America is not Greece people. Not by a long shot. Greece had a debt to GDP ratio of over 400% when their problems started.

          OUR debt to GDP ratio is only 100%: better than most major nations of the world, with the exception of China and Germany, which are about 90%.

          Don’t panic as QE3 occurs since it will be intended to replace the losses of the GB’s and the FRN’s created will never see the light of day, or the hands of American consumers.

          WE will have a few more tough years until the dollar loses values and becomes competitive again against other currencies; relatively cheap American energy fuels a resurgence in American demand for product and services; and manufacturing comes home to benefit from the lower dollar and cheap energy.

          In the short term the dollar gets stronger as the Euro gets weaker.

          2015 and WE will be back watching DWTS XVI, Idol XX, and a new, revamped sitcom: American Prepper V staring Smoking Okie.

          No economic crash for America, folks. WE had OUR crash. Europe is in a civil war between the Globalists: Sovereigns vs Gangster Banksters.

          Its a power struggle with brinkmanship the name of the game and Greece is the “wishbone”.

          In the end the Sovereigns win because … well, they are Sovereign aren’t they? The GB’s in Europe will take it in the shorts and they won’t be happy about it!

          Turn off your cell phone and enjoy the show.
          Unless of course you live in Greece. In which case, you should open a tourist business touting the Greek Islands and Athens to the Uber Rich (and gouging them for the privilege).

          Unfortunately, for the Greek people, Greece is not America and until they re-institute the Drachma and drop its value to at least 3 to 1 against the euro, they are toast.

          When they do, the European GB’s take it in the shorts and the Sovereigns will finally move to support their individual banks.

          • durango kidd

            Nothing to worry about? When the USD devalues prices go up, wages don’t keep pace and your standard of living drops. That is walking backwards.

            I’m not saying that there is a choice because the Free Trade with slave labor nations is now too well entrenched to reverse. Jobs will come back to the US when the cost to produce an item is cheaper to manufacture here rather then “there”. Unfortunately the people “there” have little if any environmental and worker safety regulations and make 10% of wages deemed acceptable in a developed country. Work twice as productive and we still have a long way to drop before manufacturing resumes.

            What did the MAD Magazine guy say? “What me worry”?

            • K2: If the value of the dollar (and Euro) do not drop there won’t be any jobs, or any income for working men and women in Europe or America, (read consumers) as a deflationary spiral would commence.

              The status quo must change.

              I agree with what you say, but the US is at a point where energy is going to get cheaper and more plentiful for US, abating inflation because WE will be producing OUR own. US oil imports have dropped below 50% and will continue to do so.

              The Rmb will continue to rise, Chinese workers will be paid better and their purchasing power will increase for two reasons:

              1. To give them more money so they can afford to eat, and buy US farm products, and
              2. Give them more disposable income to become consumers in the best tradition of a Valley Girl to support the Chinese economy which is making a shift inwards. This is the natural evolution of a mature economy.

              The CCP will go along with this because it is in their own best interests. If Europe and America do not stabilize, there will not be anyone to buy the products they do produce.

            • Kevin, wages are already not keeping pace. My haven’t had raises since 2006 — we’ve had paycuts instead. Add to that the inflation that TPTB say doesn’t exist (yeah, right, apparently they don’t go grocery shopping — oh, I forgot! Food doesn’t count toward the inflation rate! GRRRRR), and we are significantly MORE poor than we were when we first started out as a young married couple without children. I walk backwards every payday, as I attempt to figure out how to make less money stretch farther. We’ve been doing it so far, and paying off debt at the same time, but I would submit to everyone here that we are already dealing with the effects of the coming inflationary disaster which I believe will hit the United States eventually. I fear it will be sooner rather than later. God bless all of you…

          • Spot on dude. I am amazed at the amount of monetarist clap trap I encounter. Very few of the QE dollars break into the real economy. And if they run into commodities it just creates bubbles. As long as they don’t find there way into consumers hands nothing extra will be consumed, hence no hyperinflation. There is tremendous productive capacity in the US economy, producing real goods and services. As far as the dollar loosing the sole reserve currency status, so much the better for them. It’s that fact that caused the US dollar to be overvalued. That crippled their domestic industry more than anything. Oh and don’t give me that China crap either. The Yuan is undervalued and the CCP is going to keep it that way. Or they can have mass unemployment. As for the EU again you are right on the globalist factions hate Sovereignty more than anything. That represents a real challenge to the unbridled power to loot and enslave. I suspect this is just an end run around sovereignty to finally smash them apart and fold them into the EU superstructure. And again for Greece to stand a chance as a nation state and not a sweatshop “free trade zone”. It’s the drachma baby.

            “2015 and WE will be back watching DWTS XVI, Idol XX, and a new, revamped sitcom: American Prepper V staring Smoking Okie”
            Sorry that totally threw me. I am not American, and sorry to say I normally despise american cultural products. I think you mean to say watch TV?

            • Scotty: Thanks for the support. The locals here are predisposed toward “collapse” (aka alt media normalcy bias) and refuse to accept the economic facts because it goes against their grain.

              These opinions, economically at least, are formed without a real understanding of their own system for many of the posters.

              IE I have been explaining for two years why there is no hyperinflation and won’t be, yet the people here believe that, any day now, bread will cost $100 a loaf and milk $250 a gallon: and they have been saying that for two years! 🙂

              (I am expecting a run on wheel barrows at Home Depot as part of their preps. Better get yours while there is still time, so that you have something with which to carry your FRN’s. 🙂

              On the contrary, I have been telling them since last fall that the real danger is a deflationary spiral; which appears to be raising its head again as a double dip recession approaches.

              Most of them do not understand their own financial system, or how the FED really works. I have been trying to educate them for two years but haven’t made any converts.

              You can lead a horse to water ……….

              As for the last quote, yes, the programs listed were some of OUR most pitiful programs which pass as entertainment on American television. At least in Italy one can get naked weather women.

              Smoking Okie is OUR resident comedian on the site. Very funny guy who helps to keep (most of) us grounded.

              Just to show you how predisposed these folks are to “collapse”, you can expect this comment to be thumbed down to the point where it is not visible because they … “can’t handle the truth!” 🙂

              One guy actually told US that he knew absolutely nothing about a topic, had no education or experience to support his view, but then proceeded to opine all about it, parroting Alt Media as if he were an expert.

              LMAO! Sometimes a majority means that most of the people are on the wrong side of an issue.

            • Scotty: While I am at it let me inform you that the folks here, by an overwhelming majority, believe that if America would just go on a gold and silver standard per Ron Paul, all of OUR economic problems would be solved.

              Yeah, they really believe that! Even if the rest of the world remains on fiat. LMAO. 🙂

          • Teach a child the concepts of honesty, integrity, lies, deception, slavery, freedom, and theft and they will know all they need to fully understand global banking.

          • DK says

            On the contrary, I have been telling them since last fall that the real danger is a deflationary spiral; which appears to be raising its head again as a double dip recession approaches.

            Most of them do not understand their own financial system, or how the FED really works. I have been trying to educate them for two years but haven’t made any converts.


            First, deflation is only bad for the bankers so it is promoted as something the people should fear. When all of our wealth has been stolen that is the best possible thing that can happen.

            What deflates is the value of the corp paper, meaning the corp needs more of it’s own paper in relation to the silver and gold required to buy a house under an honest money system, for example, while the cost in that real money drops like a rock.

            That is why banksters fear deflation and have trained you to perpetuate it as a bad thing.

            I understand exactly how the fed works. It is a criminal counterfeit operation held by foreign investors and operates in their interest through various frauds and crimes against the People.

            Your big problem is that you must accept the unacceptable in order to justify your job. You may understand the dysfunctional system and thrive in it, but all that serves to do is trap you in the propaganda net where all you hear supports erroneous beliefs that you can not reconcile in your mind.

            I don’t mean that in a bad way. the system is designed to turn out people like you by the millions.

            It’s just sad when you complain about not having any converts when the people that are here are here because they have already reached the conclusion that the existing fraud is unacceptable.

            You want them to accept the and try to fix it where it doesn’t steal so much from them. Few will convert to such ridiculousness.

            • GC: When a deflationary spiral hits it doesn’t mean that corp paper is worth less. It means that there is less paper in the system. It means that people do not have money to buy the things they need or want.

              Corp paper is actually worth more. It is the underlying real assets that are worth less, and you would be able to buy more of them with less corp paper.

              GC, thank you! You have made my point for me, perfectfully! My point being that many here do not understand their own financial system.

              It would seem that you are one of them. 🙂

            • I understand the system perfectly.

              The only way there would be a lack of “money” would be if the printer did not print it or printed it and gave it all to the banks with none left for commerce. That’s what the banksters did to us in the 30’s. Print a lot of money and credit, then take it away. As Jefferson put it, first through inflation, then through deflation..

              So long as paper from a private criminal cartel is considered money your system will survive and your job will be secure.

              Instead of telling people how the fraud works for you, push for the solution. A total abandonment of the Federal Reserve and the issue of non interest bearing money.

            • GC: If there is too much money as you suggest,(by the GB’s printing more) then WE have an inflationary condition, NOT a deflationary condition.

              As I have explained several times before; that money that is being printed is not (for the most part) leaving the banks. To quote Lew Rockwell, it is “stuck in the banks”.

              It is not stuck in the banks. Lew is wrong. While it is not stuck in the banks, it is not leaving the banks.

              New dollars are being created to replace dollars that have been destroyed when the declining value of assets held by the banks are marked to market and threaten the liquidity of the banks. That was the purpose of QE2 and it will be the purpose of QE3 and 4.

              Thanks again! 🙂

            • DK,

              There is not too much money, there is too much fraud. You can continue to explain how the banksters are attempting to retain control over the fraud, but you miss the obvious.

              The banks are pushing for “monetary” inflation to eliminate their mistakes and force the cost onto the people who have been FORCED to use their counterfeit money. That makes it obvious that the banks benefit from inflation of the currency.

              The banks fear deflation, so they advertise it as a disaster for the people should it occur. That makes it equally obvious that deflation would be beneficial to the people.

              Inflation and deflation are monetary phenomena. Inflation is the “printing” of too much corp paper money and other debt obligations, deflation is removing the excess from circulation (or bank holdings).

              When the banks inflate the amount of their counterfeit paper, the value of real money increases in relation to it, ie the cost of goods in real money goes down while the paper price rises. That is why gas and other commodities are really a lot cheaper today than in the early 60’s when the remaining silver in the treasury was stolen.

              As the banksters inflate their own paper, prices in real money drop naturally. Why? The printing of paper does not produce wealth.

              You could buy a average car for 2000 silver dollars in 1960, that same stack of silver dollars could buy a 60,000 car today, when the average car is closer to 30,000. Has the cost of a car increased or decreased?

              As the banksters inflate their currencies, the prices in real money deflate in relation to the currency. Currency inflation creates price deflation when measured in real money. That is caused, in large part, by the bankster manipulation of the silver and gold prices to hide its frauds from the victims.

              Everything you assume relies on the banksters continued success in monetary fraud. When real money is used again, it will not matter what the banksters do with their paper.

              Your world will exist only so long as the monetary fraud does. You can no longer recognize real money or tell the difference between it and what the banksters call money.

              If you measure your corps worthless paper against real money the picture becomes clear and your conclusions are shown to be based on falsehoods promoted in “schools”.

              Those falsehoods are taught to keep people from understanding real money and how simply it can fix the problems caused by the use of a privately issued debt currency.


              That must be removed from the private criminals who now hold it. If that is not made to happen, then the deflation or inflation of counterfeit paper being used as money will take down the world economically speaking.

              That is the banksters intent. They already have all the gold and can use it to further their criminal behavior no matter what currency the people use.

              In the end, inflation and deflation are irrelevant outside of the fantasy world of FRN,s being manipulated.

              There is only one solution, only one battle.

              In the end, the People will win again just they have in all the other battles over control of the money that have happened in the past, including the American Revolution.

              You should consider joining our side and use real money as your guide for comparisons because it is the FINAL solution that will ultimately come to pass.

              Until you stop analyzing fiat currency inflation as it relates to fiat currency pricing, you will remain in error.

              Besides, the acceptance of freedom first requires the acceptance of gold and silver as the ONLY real money.

              Debt currency is for slaves. You are doing a disservice to the world by telling the people they will not suffer tragically for it’s continued use.

            • Sorry…I think I misheard you. Deflation is only bad for banks? Hmmmm tell that to underwater homeowners. Or if your real wages get cut in half and your debt ls load stay the same? IMHO the average american is swimming in debt. Deflation greatly adds to the debt stress of anybody or institution carrying a negative balance. That is a problem much more toxic than inflation.
              DK I am starting a small business paying 1 gram .99 silver for 1 kilo of dried worthless US fiat of any denomination. How long till I get any customers?

              Full disclosure here, I made a freaking fortune off Ludwig von Mises most pious disciples. They attempt to punish the Japanese central banks for their sins against hard money by shorting the freaking yen. I couldn’t believe the stupidity of these so called seasoned traders. People are making the same mistake again. Happily I am retired now. LOL
              I think the problem is that no one looks at the functioning of the overall economy.Money or anything used for it is MERELY a substitute for barter, thats it. A nation with underlying productive capacity will survive a monetary collapse, I could offer many examples but won’t for space. I will offer you instead examples of states with lousy fundamentals but with massive amounts of gold. First one Spain, at it’s height by far the richest by gold amount. Guess what happened there. Production costs soared[inflation], and a large part of it’s productive capacity fled. Kinda like the US now with off shoring. Next Russia, still by and large a lousy place to be even with massive amounts of oil, low debt and many many gold mines. The problem, productivity absolutely sucks, it’s so poor even in it’s dirt cheap ruble it can hardly compete in any global market. I could go on but you probably would mis the point anyway. So let me simplify. If the US dollar completely collapses, unless it’s caused by massive destruction by nuclear war or disasters. The sun rises the next day,the crops still grow, most people get up and figure how to earn a living. At first it would be barter probably. If you have a gold hoard it won’t be long before a government or warlord takes it from you in tribute or taxes. Or you could just hide it like the Romans fleeing Britain, only to be found 1500 years later. But if you have a valuable trade or skill, or farm or fish as long if it’s productive you will probably due better than if you relied on gold or silver.


            • Scotty,

              You and DK make the same failed assumption that Federal Reserve Notes and Money are the same thing.

              The banks own everything because of their counterfeiting operation. Are homeowners underwater? No, they don’t own the home anyway and can never pay for it until real money is used again.

              They do not lose ownership, they lose usage rights and nothing else when they decide it is no longer in their best interest to pay the banks. They are then free to move to another place with cheaper rent while the banks suffer a paper only loss on the over inflated value when stated in fiat dollars.

              The fear is that the banksters money will no longer be able to “buy” anything and that money they do not print will be used that can transfer lawful ownership away from their legal clutches.

              In the end, the people will be able to claim any vacant house they want, so long as they can protect it.

              The banks will not be able to stop it, especially since they can’t prove ownership in the first place in their own fraudulent legal system.

              All that is required after that is for the people to update the land patents and we can retake what is our lawful inheritance.

            • Guilty as charged! I made a freaking fortune at the FOREX trading desk and retired at 36. I own lots of gold but it hangs on mrs. Scotty’s still lovely neck.
              And I will share my secret with you for free. When japan was battling deflation it’s central bank printed vast amounts of yen. Do you have any idea of the debt to GDP ratio there? The hard money crowd was screaming at this sin and swore the yen would collapse. I positioned the opposite. I never lost a cent and made a mint myself. Mind you this has been going on for nearly twenty years, and you know what the yen is appreciating. Can you figure out why? If you can understand that you might do well in FOREX yourself.
              As far as the gov and bankers robbing you. Yes that is what they do! I milked many a foolish Mofos! I liked the loot and felt bad enough to give some away.
              However I never defrauded anybody every trade requires a counter party. I just was far less dogmatic, realizing all that japan had going for it, and critically important WHERE ALL THOSE EXTRA YEN WERE NOT GOING! To wage increases to japanese workers. No wage increases means no hyperinflation. Like DK says 100 dollar a loaf bread? If no one can afford it it quickly turns into a 100 dollar loaf of mold.
              Whenever trading FOREX examine first and foremost the underlying productive capacity of the economy. And realize that everything is just a commodity especially gold and silver, and a currency.

            • GC: My Response follows. Your statements are in quotes.

              “There is not too much money, there is too much fraud. You can continue to explain how the banksters are attempting to retain control over the fraud, but you miss the obvious.”

              My Response: Yes I agree, there is too much fraud.

              “The banks are pushing for “monetary” inflation to eliminate their mistakes and force the cost onto the people who have been FORCED to use their counterfeit money. That makes it obvious that the banks benefit from inflation of the currency.”

              My Response: Yes I agree, the FED is pushing for inflation to monetize the debt. The GB’s benefit from inflation OR deflation. It doesn’t matter to them.

              “The banks fear deflation, so they advertise it as a disaster for the people should it occur. That makes it equally obvious that deflation would be beneficial to the people.”

              My Response. Deflation would be valuable to those individuals and corp like apple with lots of cash. The FED only fears deflation because it could spark a Revolution. Deflation is part of the equation to steal the wealth of Americans. Read Thomas Jefferson.

              “Inflation and deflation are monetary phenomena. Inflation is the “printing” of too much corp paper money and other debt obligations, deflation is removing the excess from circulation (or bank holdings).”

              My Response: Yours is not a correct definition of inflation. Inflation is too much money in the hands of consumers chasing too few goods. (IE Demand is outstripping supply). Deflation is too few dollars in the hands of consumers chasing too many goods (IE Supply much greater than demand).

              “When the banks inflate the amount of their counterfeit paper, the value of real money increases in relation to it, ie the cost of goods in real money goes down while the paper price rises. That is why gas and other commodities are really a lot cheaper today than in the early 60′s when the remaining silver in the treasury was stolen.”

              My Response; That is correct many items are cheaper today in real terms IE inflation adjusted dollars.

              “As the banksters inflate their own paper, prices in real money drop naturally. Why? The printing of paper does not produce wealth.”

              My Response: If you mean that prices in “inflation adjusted dollars” drop, that would be correct. There is a lot more paper in the world today and arguably, a lot more wealth.

              “As the banksters inflate their currencies, the prices in real money deflate in relation to the currency. Currency inflation creates price deflation when measured in real money. That is caused, in large part, by the bankster manipulation of the silver and gold prices to hide its frauds from the victims.”

              My Response: “Real money” is not a viable term. Inflation adjusted dollars is the correct term. While I agree that the GB’s manipulate the price of gold and silver (as they manipulate all markets), and while I believe that the GB’s seek to hide or disguise their theft, it does not follow that currency inflation is caused by the manipulation of gold and silver prices.

              “Everything you assume relies on the banksters continued success in monetary fraud. When real money is used again, it will not matter what the banksters do with their paper.”

              My Response: It doesn’t matter what object, article, or ledger entry is used for money, GB fraud would continue unabated under the current FREE TRADE system managed by the FED. It is the system that is flawed; because the table is tilted.

              “Your world will exist only so long as the monetary fraud does. You can no longer recognize real money or tell the difference between it and what the banksters call money.”

              My Response: My world will continue as long as I do; whether the monetary fraud of the GB persists and prevails as the law of the land or not. I am a miner. I mine precious metals. They have a place in the present system, and they have a place in a “real money” world. My world is not contingent upon either.

              “If you measure your corps worthless paper against real money the picture becomes clear and your conclusions are shown to be based on falsehoods promoted in “schools”.

              My Response: No my conclusions are based upon the reality WE live in. The real world; not the sovereign man fantasy you follow. Anytime I see or hear someone disparage education i know I am dealing with an ignoramus.

              “Those falsehoods are taught to keep people from understanding real money and how simply it can fix the problems caused by the use of a privately issued debt currency. THE ONLY THING THAT MATTERS IS THE CONTROL OVER THE ISSUANCE OF CURRENCY. That must be removed from the private criminals who now hold it. If that is not made to happen, then the deflation or inflation of counterfeit paper being used as money will take down the world economically speaking. That is the banksters intent. They already have all the gold and can use it to further their criminal behavior no matter what currency the people use.”

              My Response; Yes, the GB’s should be removed from the monetary process. Indicted, convicted, and punished for their crimes.

              “In the end, inflation and deflation are irrelevant outside of the fantasy world of FRN,s being manipulated.”

              My Response: Inflation and deflation are not irrelevant. They are very powerful processes that convey prosperity and poverty; life and death. FRN’s are not irrelevant either. For now, it is the world’s reserve currency and the instrument through which countless individuals and their families eek out a living.

              “There is only one solution, only one battle. In the end, the People will win again just they have in all the other battles over control of the money that have happened in the past, including the American Revolution. You should consider joining our side and use real money as your guide for comparisons because it is the FINAL solution that will ultimately come to pass.”

              My Response: I would be very happy to see the people’s money returned to their control again. Until it is it is my duty to inform the masses what the GB’s are doing and what if anything it will mean to them individually.

              “Until you stop analyzing fiat currency inflation as it relates to fiat currency pricing, you will remain in error. Besides, the acceptance of freedom first requires the acceptance of gold and silver as the ONLY real money. Debt currency is for slaves. You are doing a disservice to the world by telling the people they will not suffer tragically for it’s continued use.”

              My Response: The reality is that WE live in a world where commerce is facilitated by fiat. It is not my choice but it is the reality of the world. If you can envision a future where everyone walks around with gold and silver coins in their pockets again, good for you. You will not live long enough to see it. But it is a future that would make me very,very rich because it will increase the demand for my precious metals.

              Finally, I am not doing a disservice by explaining to the people here how their financial system works and what the actions and events within that system mean for them.

              The people who do them a disservice are the ones who sell them FREE TRADE as a FREEDOM when it is a managed trade system designed to enslave them; or the parasites on Alt Media who hope to profit from the ignorance and fear of the ill informed; and ones like YOU who suggest that they can escape the system when they cannot; even as you have not ….. as you have readily admitted.


      2. Seems like Greece is a test run for the rest of the Fiat Currency States.

        The Lord is Righteous.
        Standing by in Texas.

        • I believe that Ice Land was the DRY RUN! But the powers around the world didn’t like what Ice Land was doing. They were showing the rest of the worlds citizens how to take their country back.

          So, now Ice Land is being muffled and Greece is pushed into the forefront.

          • Iceland solved their problems the same way the U.S. will have to… wide scale arrests and legal ramifications for the criminal bloodsuckers. The spread of arrests and justice in Europe and elsewhere is definitely being muffled… but only for now.

          • Iceland had it easy for two reasons:

            – A smaller population (the entire population of Iceland is substantially smaller than the population within city limits of Portland, OR.)

            – A smaller government, which makes it easier to hunt down and root out criminals and manipulators.

            We have neither advantage.

            • On 1 January 2012 the population of Iceland was 319,575.

              How can a nation smaller than any of our states be compared to our economic collapse about to happen??

            • The city limit of Portland OR contains ~500k human beings.

              You kinda proved my point even further 🙂

            • No you have many many more advantages than poor ICEland. For starters working nuclear tipped missiles. Outstanding agricultural production, massive untapped energy reserves. In much of CONUS excellent fresh water reserves, millions of skilled and highly productive people, an underemployed underclass that will work for drugs doing manual labor. Still productive mines, workable infrastructure. All that adds up to REAL WEALTH no matter what ACCOUNTING UNIT is used be it gold silver or FRN’s

      3. The Average American:

        NNAAWWWW!!!,… that could NEVER happen here!

        If the power went out,.. I wouldn’t be able to watch my American Idol,.. or get todays proganda from the Main-Stream-Media telling me how Eeeeevrything is just fine!

        Real American:

        Good,.. lets get this going!

        The sooner this happens,.. this less time the NWO pyschos have to keep buiding up their Police-Terror-Grid, and the sooner we can get down to the business of abolishing the perfidious filth called the US Fed Gov’t,.. the enemy of the American people, of America, and of the US Constitution.

        The real patriots are waiting for the dance music to start so we can get down to the business of kicking the crap out of the traitors, get rid of the pyschos, and take out the trash from Washington, The Courts and our wholly corruupted police forces.

        Then we can start the process of restoring the United States Of America as the Republic it once was before the International Banksters, Corrupt Corporations, Pernicious Politicians,.. and the lowest form of life on this planet,.. the Rothchilds, destroyed it.

        JD – US Marines – Lets start the dance music!

        • yes nina yes. stay on the ready, your day is almost here.

        • just one request nina. you guys can take everyone down but one. please keep evelyn derothschild alive long enough that i can come and visit him. this is personal between him and i.

        • What I don’t understand at all, is that we all know that the US Government is corrupt and only for itself. You would think that out of 300 million US citizens (and subtract half that are on welfare, government employees, socialism freaks, and just plain lazy losers) leaving 150 million people, we can’t even find 5,000 or 10,000 people willing to give up everything and go to DC and literally take down the fence at the White House and every other government building (IRS and all others) and throw the bums out and end it.

          I would give up my life to save this country with no problem, but no one can do it alone. I know we all enjoy our families, big screen TV’s, Internet, jobs, homes, and spending money, and no one want their family to be without them if things got heavy, but how else can it be done.

          We as American’s have lost a lot of our backbone, we can text, email, and communicate to millions in seconds and yet we can’t get together a group of real American’s willing to do what our forefathers did because we figure it is easier to just let someone else do it.

          Our local government is just as bad in every state and town in the US. Taxes are out of control, welfare losers getting more than we every will, and criminals have more rights than hard working taxpayers can ever dream of. What is wrong with the good, honest, hard working, true blue American?

          This might sound over the edge for some, but at this point there is no other way anything or anyone is going to change it any other way. We are all considered terrorist because we believe in what we grew up being taught, now that kind of thinking is a crime against the government. When they take you away to some Fema Camp, your family is going to be without you anyway, so at least make it count. We all need to get off our asses and do something, because we are at the point that we have nothing to lose.

          • People need to study a little more military history. When insurrection comes, which side usually wins? The troubling answer is, whoever DIDN’T shoot first. I’m not saying the people who start the war will inevitably lose, but they do have a longer way to go to win the image war with the undecided population. The Revolution has tough times early on because it was never clear which side started shooting first. The south could quite probably won the Civil War if they had NOT fired on Fort Sumter and instead waited for the north to attack.

            Am I happy with the political situation now? No. Do I think my vote counts? Nationally, no. Statewide…we’ll see after Tuesday (I’m in WI). But do I think it is the most important thing in the world for us to attempt to use peaceful means until there is no other option? Absolutely. As long as there is a peaceful route open to us, we cannot strike first without handing to our enemies the moral high ground, and as much as some people like to bluster and pretend that God will always be on their side, it isn’t their opinion of it that matters. It is the opinion of the undecided citizens who can throw their support in either direction.

        • If I’m not mistaken, as a Marine, you took an you took the same oath that I did when I went into service during Viet Nam, to protect and defend the Constitution.

          So, I guess that you know that the people of the United States “Dance” every 4 years. It’s called an election. Some place in your walnut sized Marine Corp brain, you might have heard of it?

          Should another power wish to wreck our Republic, violence would be the very best way, hey Comrade?

          • if the government is totally corrupt and we can’t have an election that is fair the constitution gives us the right to get rid of that corrupt government which is the biggest reason for the second amendment. we wnat to do it the right way with a fair election but if that does not work because of voting fraud then the marines idea may be the only way to save our republic. it is the last option but it is a valid one.

          • ~~~So, I guess that you know that the people of the United States “Dance” every 4 years. It’s called an election. Some place in your walnut sized Marine Corp brain, you might have heard of it?~~~

            OMG..cut the chit!!
            Your vote is taken away as soon as you click that button or run that selection sheet through that electronic machine–ask ANY computer nerd.
            Off the band wagon.
            My dh took that oath, but what he’s learned about the stolen elections for the last few decades and false flags– esp. Gulf of Tonkin, sir–has opened his eyes.
            Anti-govt is far from anti-American so save the preaching for a group less informed.

            • What, you know this because you read it on some Libertarian website? Why don’t you cut the crap Rambo.

        • Jd,

          Glad to see you are still around kinda miss some of your post bud. As for Manos folks I got a e-mail from him friday and its bad there but he is still doing good.


          • See, this is what I’m talking about.

            • I agree……. your like the Lamestream media and not giving details? what gives 😉

            • Rick

              If someone sends a personal email it is difficult to just put that out in the public domain. Those of us in contact with Manos are privileged that he chooses to stay in touch with us, and we have become friends, we talk about our families and such, to back that public would be wrong.

              When Manos says tell people…….we do. Sometimes that is tell people I am okay, which we do, sometimes he gives us more and we put it out.

              Please try to understand the position we are in.

              Cheers Rick, take care

          • Hi DPS,

            Nice to hear from you.

            I’m glad to hear Manos is still hanging in there,… although in reality,.. what options does he really have other than, Be Strong,.. OR,.. Be Dead.

            I have exchanged a few conversations with Manos,.. but not lately. If you send him an email,.. please let him US Marine – JD, is keeping him in mind and prayers.


            JD – US Marines

            • Jd,

              Will do brother I shall pass that one down the line, He is a very strong man and you have to love that sense of humor he has..

              For those whom ask for more info about Manos, I don’t give many details about whats going on with Manos because that is his business and if he decides to share it then so be it..Its just a matter of respect.


        • US Marine:

          Affirmative as to your observations. There exists a huge, very huge, mass of Constitution loyal citizens awaiting the inevitable, the music. As per this forum.

          Looking forward to the “push brooming” of the filth, decadence, lard asses, to the “trash can”.

          Instead of sending GI’s to third world shit holes, I submit transfer of above moochers, liberals, and USA haters to a one way trip to a shit hole of availability. Cheaper to pay the socialist dictator of that country to take them in for “reality awareness labor” rather than continuing paying out the moocher checks each month.

          BTW, put up a few flag poles, hoist the red,white, and blue. Raise up a Betsy Ross Colonial flag… HA! you can piss off the neighborhood pansies fast. Let’s you know who sucks on your perimeter…heh…heh..

          • Hi NAM-68,

            Always great to hear from you.

            I am ALWAYS stunned by the shear magnitude of people who have little-to-no clue to what is actually happening,.. or simply REFUSE to acknowledge it (… normalcy bias..).

            But I am also starting to see signs a larger awakening occurring,.. which is why the Physcos-In-Charge are starting to get just a little panicky I think.

            Greece is just the advance-guard of what is about to happen here, whenever Mano’s posts something,.. I’m quite deligent to read it.

            Someone had suggested above that perhaps Mac Salvo here at SHTF could set up a small fund to send to Manos to help him out a little, and to encourage him to act as our ears and eyes by keeping us abreast of the breakdown as it occurs in Greece.

            I’d give a few bucks for that!

            As for here,.. what few have to realize is the following:

            The America that most of knew and grew up in,.. is gone, and it will not be coming back in our lifetime,.. if ever!

            We are simply living on the last fewe gasps of former prosperty,… and when the end (collapse) really starts,.. it will escalate with incredible speed.

            Now is the time to finish your preps and planning.

            If we get another 3 – 6 months before large scale systemic changes,.. or a flase flag is executed,.. I would be very surprised.

            I’ll try to find an old Betsy Ross to fly off the porch!

            Best regards to you and your family Nam-68

            JD – US Marines

            • Sure John Wayne, don’t forget to change you diapers after the you hear the first round go down range.

        • Amen ,US Maririne

        • i have picked my partner. actually i have a few to choose from, and plenty of ammo.

        • Thats a good post!

        • Dude…… rock!

        • I can think of some Hollywood Marxists and mainstream media pseudo-journalists that I’d pay to beat the shit out of. Seriously, a raffle could be held to win the right to smack down some of the media parrots and cheerleaders for the “war on terror”, “war on drugs”, and just about any other liberty-destroying “war on” that you can think of.

        • @US Maririne Stopping Tyranny says

          If you are going to play MARINE learn how to fuckin spell it. Fraud.

          • AHHHhhhh,…

            Another shit talking asshole speaks thru his sphincter….

            Yes,,, you are correct that I forgot to double check the spelling before hitting “post”,.. but that was an accident,.. you shooting your mouth off like a douch bag,…is intentional.

            Lets find out if your balls are as big as your mouth.

            HERE IS MY $100,000 (USD) CHALLANGE TO YOU:

            Since you are CLEARLY convinced of your stupidity in calling me a fraud, I will give you a chance to prove it, AND let YOU make an EASY $100,000 (USD).


            If I cannot prove I was a US Marine, Combat Decorated, Discharged with medical injuries incurred while in-service to this country,.. you get to keep $100,000 Dollars (USD), ALL travel & Legal Expenses!

            If I do prove the above,.. I get my money back, and get an additional $100,000 (all USD) provided by you, plus all travel & legal expenses.

            Fair enough?

            Here is how it is done:

            1) I will provide a scrub email account at the end of this post for you to send your attorney’s contact information to.

            2) You will provide me with the contact information of your legal representative (must be a certified (barred) attorney).

            3) I will send your attorney, my attorney’s contact information.

            4) You will deposit $120,000 (USD – US Dollar) with your attorney in his escrow account.

            5) I will deposit $120,000 (USD) with my attonrey in his escrow account.

            6) We will then petition the the court in New York City to adjuticate the following:

            a) I will provide my DD214 for inspection to the judge.

            b) I will provide my VA Medicla Letter of Disabliity rating for the judges inspection.

            c) I will permit the appropriate amount of time required should the court or your attorney demand that my documents be verified with Naval Archive Records in St. Louis, Missouri (This is where retired military records for Navy And US Marines are stored).

            Should you wish to travel to NY for any of the court dates, you may attend at your expense, unless of course I fail to prove my veteran status from the US Marines, in which case you will be reimbursed.


            If the Judge declares my documents are fraudulent or I have failed to produce the necassary documents to prove my Veteran Status,.. YOU Get Your $120,000 back, PLUS my $100,000 + Travel Expenses + Legal Costs!!!!

            This will be the EASIEST $100,000+ Dollars you have EVER made since you ARE so convinced of your own stupidity.


            If my documents clearly show my US Marine Status, as a Combat Decorated Veteran, with Disablity as per VA Rating Letter,.. then…

            I get back my $120,000 + Your $100,000 + Travel Expenses + Legal Costs from your attorneys escrow.

            So lets find out if you have ANY balls,.. or are you just another shit talking douch bag?

            Hugs and kisses – JD – US Marine – Combat Decorated

            Email to send YOUR attorney contact info to:

            [email protected]

            NOTE: In the well over 2 dozen times I have offered this challange,.. not one of you fuk’n cowards has had the balls to put up. I gonna bet your gutless maggot that doesn’t have the balls either.

            • Yut!!!

            • You are a loud mouth, trash talking, violent little boy. You don’t have control of your emotions and appear to have anger issues. You are unlike any Marines I’ve known.

              You took an oath to protect and defend this country, not to start a revolt because YOU don’t like what some numbskull tells you is going on.

              IF, you had ever served in a war zone, or IF you had ever served in a place where there was a civil war, you would not be making the statements that you’ve made here. So do all the adults here a favor and zip it, little man.

            • Dear Jackass Plissken,

              I EXTEND MY $100,000 CHALLANGE TO YOU ALSO!

              Since you clearly believe your own shit-talk,, this could be the easiest $100,000 you have ever made!

              It is also clear,…you have never known any US Marines.

              You are CLEARLY a Fed Schill (Physc-operator), who gets PAID to come on sites like this and bad mouth real patriots, veterans and truly concerned citizens.

              How much do you take to sell out your country?? (I bet it was for as little minimum wage….)

              Go back to your handler at the CIA, FBI, Fed Res, or whatever treasnous agency you work for and let them know,.. YOU HAVE BEEN MADE.

              You opinions and words have the same value as the barking noise of the curr that gave birth to you.

              Don’t bother to write back, as you will no longer be acknowledged.

              NOTE TO ALL READERS:

              Snake Plissken (Current user Name) IS A TREASONOUS SCHILL.

              I have run into this Jackass many times before as he uses several other screen names, especially on Fuck-France.

              Him and his boyfriend are well known Schills.


              JD – US Marine, Patriot, Constitutionalist

            • Take it outside boys

            • You are way too desperate in your attempt to prove something. I, personally, think you’re a hack. But by all means, put your $100,000 in an escrow account. You do have $100,000 cash…right?

            • Dear Veteranjarheadaviator,

              IF your an actual former Marine pilot,.. I am stunned by your complete lack of tack, or fidility to US Marines.

              I strongly suspect your another Physc-op troll, possible even “Plisskins” boyfriend.. these sites are crawiling with your types lately,..fear by the PTB I suspect.

              Allow me to correct your language and give you a basic lesson in ethics:

              I am not “desperate” to prove anything.

              I am WILLING to prove that I am EXACTLY as I say I am,… that is called INTEGRITY. (had you been a REAL Marine pilot,.. you would have instantly understood that and backed it)

              I am willing to substantiate my willingness with a considerable financial incentive to you, to pursue it should you feel the need.

              I am willing to offer my military records for examination to a duly appointed court judge And YOUR attorney for review (in the court room).

              I am also willing to take your money when the judge annouces my irrefutable military background/status/proof is sufficient and beyond reproach.

              If your a real former US Marine, I am greatly disappointed by your alignement with the treasonous elements of our corrupt gov’t.

              I suspect your not a former Marine,.. but are a posser, as I have seen on other sites already, so that you can “appear” to challange the real veterans and attempt to undermine their credibility.

              I EXTEND MY $100,000 offer to you also.

              The $120,000 must be deposited by each of us in our repective attorny’s escrow accounts, so when a final ruling is made, the cash is forwarded to the winning party, which will be me, as a check. It is irrelevant if you gave it to your attorney as cash or not for deposit into the escrow account.

              NOTE: After the subtraction of $100,000, plus any travel and legal expenses I incur, you will receive the remaining balance, if any, from the $120,000.

              We have dispensed with the pleasantries,…

              Now, you just have ask yourself one question,… “Do I feel lucky?”,…. well?,.. do you?,.. PUNK!

              JD – US Marine – Willing, ready, able to prove it.

        • Hook up the speakers!

          I got my dancin’ shoes on!

          • I’m certain that you have your Rambo outfit all picked out to go with your “Dancing shoes”.

            I thought you Libertarians were all “True Conservatives” not trouble makers.

            Think about it Dork, the last thing the good old USA needs right now is a bunch of John Wayne wantabe’s starting trouble! You want to END this country, start a revolution.

          • Hi NetRanger,

            Wow,.. given the nervous posting Fed Schills like Dick-sucking Plissken is posting,… clearly they are getting worried.

            THANKS PLISSKEN,… you just PROVED you treasonous douch bags are getting worried!

            NetRanger,.. ignore Plissken,… I have run into this fag dozens of times on several sites, especially on Fuck France, where usually,.. him and and his boyfriend pair up to attack Patriots, Loyalists, Constituionalists and Veterans.

            I’m actually heartened by this, as this moron just tipped his hand as to how concerened they really are!

            Ignore this douchbag. As soon as he realizes no one is listening to him, he goes back under the atable to suck his boyfriend off.

            JD – US Marines – A Plow-The-Prom-Queen kind of guy.

            • I’m as worried about the likes of you as I am of the grown men who still play Dungeons & Dragons.

        • Love that American can do spirit. Sadly the fat and happy do not rebel nor resist increasing totalitarianism. I think the cold beer and dollar menu have to go first.

      4. I was told by an Old Vietnam War Veteran a couple days ago about a strategy used by the insidious types to get people murdered by law enforcement. Something about making phone calls to the LEOs about a target and how to make the person(s) sound dangerous so SWAT or regular LEOs will be on edge before the encounter and be more likely to kill the subject. Has anyone here heard of any such accounts please post. I saw this and it made me want to ask.

        • I read about that too. That is terrible.

          If that was a “strategy”, I don’t think it would be as effective in rural communities where people tend to know each other more. More people know their local police, sheriff, etc.

          In an urban area, that could be a different story.

        • I’t’s called “SWATting”, and is being done by left-wing blogger/marxist/parasites. It is an escalation of hostilities against those who are waking up, not mainstream “conservatives”. If they don’t like what you say, they will call a SWAT team to your house. Never mind that making a false police report is a felony, they will never be held accountable.

          • You beat me to it. Swatting is a black art practiced mostly by evil left-wing informer types. Swatting kicked into high gear the minute anonymous snitch lines and email addresses were encouraged and profliferated. Think “Dare” at the local level and snitch lines for “terrorists” at the federal level.

            Snitches truly are a dying breed. Collaborators at all levels, your time is coming!

            • Wish it were true that informers are a dying breed. But history tells us that they thrive under tyranny, and tyranny grows like kudzu in the soil of chaos. God help us all if we ever get a widespread SHTF event in the USA; there will be chaos, and almost immediately there will be legions of informers who will sell their souls for one more meal.

            • Snitches are often the last to die and the most likely to succeed in a new environment, since they know how to play the game well.

      5. If the post says “Your comment is awaiting moderation” does it post right away or does it have to be moderated?

        • this is a system automation that forces your comment into an approval queue. utilizing an email address ( real or fake) will help the system recognize future posts and prevent automatic moderation.



          • Ok, Thank you.

      6. Morning

        Manos has written, and sends his regards to all. He is okay right now and thanks everyone for their good wishes.

        This is coming to the UK soon, and not because of unpaid bills, thought that may well be an issue in the not so distant future.

        Under various agreements to reduce the carbon footprint of the UK, it was decided many years ago, that coal fired power stations would be shut downin 2015, or after 20,000 hours usage, running at a give level or above. It was decided that nice clean nuclear plants would be built to cope with the demand of an increasing population, and to replace the coal fired plants. Nuclear plants take about ten years to build, and the French were going to build them. The French pulled out eighteen months ago, no building has started, no retrofitting of the coal plants to make then cleaner has started. The government has not retracted it’s intention to close coal fired plants in 2015 for whatever reason.

        David Cameron has said that he has made plans for shutting down the grid in the event of the Sun playing up, and that when bringing it back on line rolling blackouts will be the order of the day to ensure security of supply. He feels there is a possibility of this happening within the next three years, as the Sun heads towards maximum, but points out it can happen at any time in the solar cycle.

        Thank God it has nothing to do with shutting the power stations down, I was getting a bit worried there.(sarc)

        Take care

        • I wasn’t around for the last EMP, but it makes little sense to me to turn off the power to avoid damage. Wouldn’t everything be damamged anyway? It’s why we are told to put our radio, phone, whatever in a faraday cage. Even if it’s “off” the curcuits will fry. Spidey senses and bullshit monitor going off about this plan. I think they have plans to shut down the grid, but not because of the sun.

          • The same reason turning your computer off in a thunderstorm is a smart idea. Current doesn’t flow through an open circuit (i.e. an open switch.)

            • Actually, the internal combustion engine (non-diesel) works because electricity jumps an open circuit.

            • Now that makes sense, but won’t there still be critical and fragile components still vulnerable? I guess it would limit the damage, is all. It would still be alot of work to get it all back on.

            • U.S please except apologies. your comment about unplugging is factually inacurate. plugged in or not, car running or off. ANY electrical coil will be fried in an EMP situation. Please, Please people wake, up study how to make functioning faraday cage for crucial electronics. misinformation is far more destructive than NO information. false security lies that route.

            • Sorry watchermax, but no legitimate electrical engineer will support your statement. It requires some sort of antenna to gather enough energy from an EMP to do damage, which is why one unplugs from the grid. The grid is one gigantic antenna. A very strong source (nuclear explosion) very close by might provide a strong enough field to damage an unplugged computer, (and that means everything unplugged, including LAN and peripheral cables!), but a solar event won’t.

            • Stop it! STOP IT NOW! You people that are not educated and have not studied EMPs and such need to just pipe down and stop hyping this stuff!


              Everything is ALREADY SHIELDED. Ever computer, every car (there is an aluminum BOX around the computer), every radio.

              But, things hooked to long lines such as antennas or powerlines could be damaged by the pulse. The pulse might interfere with the operation of the device (like an auto engine) for a brief period of time.

              Believe me, if you need a Faraday cage, you need a bunker because if you’re that close, its the blast thats the big worry.

              All this hype is just that. Fear mongering. Too many people read “One Second After” and believed it.

              But, there will be ENOUGH damage to go around. It will take the grid down because of the long lines connecting various parts of it. The DC pulse on the lines will cause arcing within transformers and various types of insulators. This will cause transformers to blow and blast many power handling components, ruining them permanently. There won’t be power. But, if you can get power your radio and computer will still work. It will also bust the copper phone communications equipment, cell towers and satellite equipment.

              The electron surge will be massive but will only be “picked up” by large, long circuits. An EMP will take out the grid, the internet and phone systems. Thats its intent. The rest of what people are talking about is fantasy and not grounded in an understanding of electricity, electrical systems or power systems. Relax and buy a generator and a 100 gal of fuel.

            • The guy who wrote One Second After actually had genuine info thru Gingrich’s military contacts. Sorry, no shield is strong enough to withstand hours of emp bombardments.

          • Yup.

            They think we are all stupid MLG.

        • @ Burt; Good afternoon. 🙂

          What did Manos think about the idea of keeping a journal of his experiences? I am guessing he might not have much time to do this.

          What is your opinion of the late Princess Diana?

          • Eagledove

            I did say that you’d suggested this…but he never responded to it, he could well still be thinking about it.

            How’s you?

            Diana….never met her lol., bt going out with a Muslim was not the brightest thing to do when you are mother of the future king is it?

            Take care

            • Burt; I am doing fine here and thankful that I have a good paying job.

              Regarding Diana., I always wondered if she was a fighter / rebel personality who couldn’t live up to the thrones standards or, a very naive lady.
              With Diana dating a muslim., this could be a way for a slap in the face to the throne.

              I am interested to see when the oldest become king., will he stay with the old guard or become like his mother.

            • He will be an old guard. Harry is the rebel. I think one of them will probably die in some kind of ‘accident’ in 10 years. Obviously, for reasons which are apparent when you compare the faces of Charles and Harry, Queen Liz wants to get rid of Harry.

        • It sad to see what has become of Britain, now a carcature of its former greatness. Americans would be wise to look at what has been happening across the pond.

          • Toomany

            Most countries have taken a nose dive, including the US. We should all feel sad for the countries we once knew.

            Take care

      7. My on topic post is in moderation…Burt has obviously been bad, so just because I can, I am trying an off topic post.

        Today it is the Queens Jubliee.

        It is 14*C, without the windchill factor, windy and peeing down with rain. It seems Queenies parade is about to be pissed on.

        To all those of you who had doubts….there is a God lol

        Take care

        • Smiles !

      8. Okay, try again,

        Posts not getting posted, going to moderation,,,,,testing testing

      9. Great the test goes through, the posts don’t. Oh well such is life

        Take care

        • burt, the brits dont want you here.they want you to be a good girl.

          • Eeder

            That’s just tough on them lol

            Have a good day

            Take care

            • ata girl burt. stand tall against fascism , stand brave dear.

      10. The ostrich have no clue till it happens right here in America. When the lights do finally go out, they will look around dumb faced asking what happen and why is this happening. So many think that this sort of thing cannot happen here, never say never!

        B Aware, B Awake, B Alive

        • Oh, soapdish, like the night the lights went out in this community and my dh came home telling me the only house lit up was ours??
          Oil lanterns and headlamps…amazing what prepping will teach ya, huh.
          Says dh as he sits to his warm dinnner by lantern light!!

      11. I asked my grandfather once what was the single greatest change he experienced during his lifetime. It was not the Internet which he did learn and use. It was not the nuclear age which happened during his lifetime, but electricity and this from a man who was a stationary steam engineer.

        The loss of utilities would bring about fundamental change as Obama calls it. ‘So if somebody wants to build a coal-powered plant, they can; it’s just that it will bankrupt them because they’re going to be charged a huge sum for all that greenhouse gas that’s being emitted.’

        The good news is that you still have time to learn to live off-grid like my grandfather did. It’s not about food storage. That is only a stop gap during our violent transition to a third-world country.

        • Anybody that watched the “Hatfields and McCoys” (estimated 52 million) should relate to how life COULD be once the collapse will place us in the same situations. I myself have been trying to relate to those close to me about what is about to happen, but most are in denial. Denial is not only a river in Egypt. I wonder how accurate the show was, but a pig that could feed your family for the winter as an asset, that meant life of death.
          Hope for the best, prepare for the worst….

        • I prefer the term “shit-world country”… something America is flirting with the idea of becoming, but will never marry. We have too many guns and a vibrant military community that is MANDATED BY LAW to [eventually] do the right thing… protect, defend, and restore the Constitution.

      12. US MARINE STOPPING TYRANNY HAS LOST HIS MIND This is what we should be fighting to stop!!!!! Do you really want a collapse so you can hunt feral cats with your bow and arrows in a nuclear zone while hunting evil MZBS This is why people think preppers have lost it!! Wanting and waiting for everything to go to hell!! Sorry it probably wont happen HO RA

        • It’s gonna happen (’cause it always does at some point in time.) He probably just wants it to go ahead and happen while he and his mates are still young enough to take care of themselves.

      13. I did an evening of simulating having no power…. Very interesting, and scary!! No hot food, no hot coco for comfort, no hot shower or bath, no tv for entertainment, just some candles and a board game. Made me realize how hooked I am on watching the news and using my phone!! Would definitely recommend you all do a little experiment like that to have a feel of what it is like having no power!! It’s truly eye-opening!!

        Be save every one!

        • The way I live now is halfway there. I heat water on the stove for a hot bath, I can always heat the water over a fire, no lack of wood around here. I could listen to my battery powered radio (that was all my entertainment for a couple of years) or just read a book.

        • Our central A/C failed several days ago, and the temp indoors went to 84′ F. We realized how much comfort that is taken for granted. Try removing all creature comforts at once, and you will be very enlightened. God bless, everyone.

          • Another reason for a separate retreat. Modern homes are insufferable without electricity. We no longer plan for shade trees, cross ventilation, or thermodynamics.

            All my creature comforts are removed every weekend that I spend there. If we lived there now, I would slowly add back the creature comforts my family currently enjoys and be right back where I started. Nevertheless, it stays cool in the deep woods even on the hottest day with no direct sunlight and the breeze coming up the mountain, through the first floor windows and out the loft window.

      14. I wonder what George Washington would say if he could see his country now?

        • Where are all my slaves?

          He owned hundreds.

          • You’re such an idiot!

            • You’re going to a FEMA camp!

            • In your f’ing dreams Gov’t Guy!! You’re the one knelling to the Gov’t you traitor!! Shut your pie hole and move on.

          • Washington’s slaves were freed after his death. Washington is one the greatest men in American history for this reason alone: he didn’t allow himself to be made king. What other man has turned down such power?

            • Otherwise the slaves would have went to his step-grandkids, one of them Robert E Lee’s mother. Well, thanks to that gesture, RELee grew up in poverty.

          • @ Government Guy

            Wasn’t expecting that. Not nice to make me spill coffee on the keyboard. Funny.

            Hope there’s an update from Manos. Anyone? When saw post title, immediately thought of him and his family. Sobering because he makes it personal.

            In my prayers dude. In my prayers.

            • @ LadyHawk
              Glad you got the joke. It appears most did not.

            • A thumbs down? Come on – it was funny. George Washington popping into 2012 would be totally disgusted with the current state of events over the Republic – after all they sacrificed, we are losing it.

              George was a man of his times who was conflicted over slavery. He had over 300 slaves – about half, if I remember the history right, were dowry slaves – came with his wife (her second marriage).

              If one knows their George Washington history on slavery his concerns were the economics of maintaining an aged slavery population – which his and her slaves were.
              Also, many of his and her slaves had intermarried and he was compassionate in not wanting to separate the families.

              He still allowed his overseers to whip (correct) the slaves including women and children and as President he signed the Fugitive Slave Law requiring fugitive and run a way slaves be returned to plantation owners.

              So if one doesn’t know George Washington’s slavery history, I guess “where are all my slaves” needs to be considered an inside joke. Sorry – thumb down away.

            • LadyHawk ~

              Awesome to see you here again! I hope all is well with you!


            • Government Guy, You get the red-thumbs for the slave comment but I’ll betcha they buy tons of crap that says “Made In China”. (And I’ll betcha I get red-thumbs now too. Oh, it already hurts….)

          • Yeah, the founding fathers owned slaves, and they lived a hell of a lot better off than many Africans do today. Slavery gets a bad rap. It was simply an institution that had its time and place in history. Every black person in America who can trace their heritage back to slavery owes their current freedoms and standard of living to it. The Civil War was the worst thing that ever happened to blacks in America. Slavery would have ended in the south legally (by legislation) within 10 or 20 years. Instead, you got a massive war followed by over 100 years of hatred, destruction, refugees, and cultural collapse. The South was right!

            • You are the biggest jackoff on this site.

            • The example is Brazil – slavery simply evaporated there when it became uneconomic, and today there is little of the racial division that we have here.

          • That was funny.

            I find it funny how people ridicule others for saying things in jest. The real problem is that it would probably be true. But, people have been brainwashed about slavery in America. My son, who will be a freshman in the local GIC (Government Indoctrination Center), said the impression he has is that every slave was whipped, ever family broken up and sold, etc, etc.

            If you look back in history those people really had it better than you think. I’m not saying it was right, I’m just saying they weren’t tortured and the families weren’t broken up. Oh, sure, they could have been, but they didn’t. You don’t beat your cattle or they don’t produce as much milk. You feed them good food and you make them as happy as possible, within reason. There is always a “sweet spot” for production. Same with slaves. They didn’t lavish them with luxury but they didn’t starve them either.

            If one will take an honest look at black slaves in America, other than the fact that they had no rights, they actually had A BETTER LIFE HERE THAN THEY WOULD HAVE HAD IN AFRICA IF THEY HAD STAYED!!!

            …but, again, I don’t see how any self respecting American could be a party to America and then own slaves. Its hypocritical.

      15. Start taking notice now in the back of you head who the problem children are in your area right now. They could be politicians, cops or just Obama druling little love bugs of liberalness. A customer at our local sporting goods store went off the hook for twenty minutes cusing and threatening the owner about a boycott from he and all his friends because there was a cartoon about gun control experts agree that it works with pictures of Hitler, Mao, Stalin, and Obama with floppy ears on the wall behimd the cashier. This dude went on and on so I left the store to see what kind of car he and his wife jumped into small town)I’d love to see this guy in a crunch with his little lever .22 action he bought talk more shit.

        • YOU ARE SO RIGHT! Look around you! Morons and moral slime are a problem in today’s society, but in a collapse or emergency situation, they are tomorrow’s informers and gulag guards. Don’t laugh. I see leftists and dummies with Obama bumper stickers as genuine threats to Patriots in a post-collapse situation.

      16. I agree PP. People who are only storing up food think that they are prepared. They’re still living off the system. All that means is they may live a few months longer than others. You have to think long term. How will you produce or forage for the food you need on a daily basis. Do you have perennial edible plants around your home? If not start planting now. How about raising fish and rabbits. These are things you can do even if you don’t live on a farm.

        • Bingo. The average prepper is just an MZB with a time-delay “on” switch.

      17. Government Guy,

        George Washington was the most humble, intelligent, dedicated and brave man our country has ever had and probably will ever have in public office. This man had respect even from his enemys. To tarnish his name this was is pure ignorance. If it were not for George Washington, we would be under the control of a Monarchy and we would not be the United States of America.

        Your simple, ignorant statement tells a lot about you.

        George Washington was born into a world in which slavery was accepted. He became a slave owner when his father died in 1743. At the age of eleven, he inherited ten slaves and 500 acres of land. When he began farming Mount Vernon eleven years later, at the age of 22, he had a work force of about 36 slaves. With his marriage to Martha Custis in 1759, 20 of her slaves came to Mount Vernon. After their marriage, Washington purchased even more slaves. The slave population also increased because the slaves were marrying and raising their own families. By 1799, when George Washington died, there were 316 slaves living on the estate.

        George Washington’s attitude toward slavery changed as he grew older. During the Revolution, as he and fellow patriots strove for liberty, Washington became increasingly conscious of the contradiction between this struggle and the system of slavery. By the time of his presidency, he seems to have believed that slavery was wrong and against the principles of the new nation.

        As President, Washington did not lead a public fight against slavery, however, because he believed it would tear the new nation apart. Abolition had many opponents, especially in the South. Washington seems to have feared that if he took such a public stand, the southern states would withdraw from the Union (something they would do seventy years later, leading to the Civil War). He had worked too hard to build the country to risk tearing it apart.

        Privately, however, Washington could — and did — lead by example. In his will, he arranged for all of the slaves he owned to be freed after the death of his wife, Martha. He also left instructions for the continued care and education of some of his former slaves, support and training for all of the children until they came of age, and continuing support for the elderly.


        • @ Ohcumgache

          There is a lot of truth in what you posted. There is also some “enhancing”. Reporting history should be about the good, bad and ugly, not revisionary. I don’t believe in putting anyone on a pedestal. God doesn’t like the competition. (Just kidding.)

          I do admire his character, tenacity and perseverance on behalf of the Republic. We rightfully honor him as a hero. But, he was a man like any other, putting his pants on one leg at a time.

          As I said previously, he was a man of his times and conflicted on slavery. Maybe there is more to GW history then we read in the books. I’ll close with:

          “…In their accommodation to slavery, the founding fathers (Washington and Jefferson) created a Constitution of aristocratic privilege for whites while accepting black enslavement. They carefully withheld any indication of moral approval while building a new nation under God with liberty and justice for all. Although the core principles of the Constitution are considered today as the greatest instrument to human liberty in erecting a government, the founding father’s love of country outweighed their love of justice. I believe that the curse of slavery is a scar on their moral record. These great men missed the opportunity to put slavery on the road to ultimate extinction…” Linda Allen Bryant -author – I Can’t Tell A Lie (George Washington fathering a son with a slave named Venus)

          • LadyHawk,

            All due respect, Washington was born into a time when the thoughts of men were much different than today. The mind set was just that, set. Washington had to pick his battles and it was miraculous that he was able to accomplish what he did. He was burdened with so many difficult tasks and obstacles. This man saved the future of our country and for that I believe he is a hero, as well as a man who stands alone in the archives of history. When Abraham Lincoln became President, it was his task to write the wrong of slavery. Two great men who will never be replaced.
            Anyone can write a book and make accusations about a man who was as important and revered as Washington, however when there is an agenda and a smear campaign behind the book, then it is pure garbage. One would have had to live in those times to make such statements. What is the point to it, take away all the heroes of yesterday and have nothing left for our youth to admire and want to emulate today?

            • +1 Ohcumgache on the first half of your post – in agreement. In fact, I think I was saying as much.

              For generations and years, historians and the white family of Thomas Jefferson threw rocks at the claims of the slave family and their oral history.

              “…Yet in 1998, DNA testing provided answers that were hard to refute…” “…”They found my brother was a straight male descendant…”


              Those were the times these great men lived in and using female slaves for sex was an acceptable common practice. It takes nothing away from their accomplishments.

            • @Ohcumgache

              Your hero was a scumbag. Were he to come back today, he would think Obama should be serving the white man like HIS Blacks did.

            • “In November 1998, there was supposedly a DNA test proving that it he (Thomas Jefferson) had this lineage with Sally Hemming, but that’s not what it did.”

              “It did nothing of the sort. In fact, they RETRACTED the story six weeks later – nobody carried the retraction – but it was impossible to prove Jefferson did it, because he had no male descendants, and you have to have the DNA of the male descendants,” Barton explained. He later added, “It blew out 200 years of history. But nobody ran the retraction of that DNA story in 1998.”

              “The story you also sometimes hear associated with this one is that it was maybe one of his relatives – one of the twenty-seven Jefferson men – that’s not even true?” Pat asked.

              “Not true,” David responded. “They did find that in the fourth child there was Jeffersons DNA – not Thomas Jefferson’s DNA, but that’s been known for a while too. It’s been known for 200 years that Thomas’s younger brother Randolph had a relationship with some of the slaves. You can point to Jefferson’s younger brother, but you still can’t point to Jefferson.”


        • So it’s OK if I buy children whose parents cannot feed them WTSTF and enslave them, but only if I set them free upon our death since I won’t be needing them anymore?

          • Buy them? You can get ’em for free in China, Thailand, India….

          • You look back in time and judge it from where you are today…We hope to learn from history and improve ourselves and our posterity.
            Which time in history has been perfect? What place or time in history did man not do injustice to other men?
            The Founding Fathers created from nothing a framework to build a freer fairer society. They started the process moving towards freedom. It was not achieved then and we certainly do not have it now, BUT it was a better framework than had ever existed before.
            Our Founders did more for freedom, than any had done before them. If you choose to focus on what they did not accomplish then that is your paradigm and you really are a “glass half empty” person…

            • @knighttow

              Gave you a thumbs up for the acknowledgment of the founding fathers foresight and achievements. I don’t judge history – however, I do believe it should be accurately reported – warts and all.

              Yes, we learn from our accomplishments and successes, but also from what wasn’t done and our failures. Ben Franklin and his financial and political history is an excellent example of failing and not giving up.

              I’ve a post awaiting moderation where I give an example of another founding father having a slave family. (held up cause posted web site source link) The establishment (white) threw rocks at them – and it took over 100 years and a DNA test to confirm what the slave family had been saying all along.

              Slaves only have oral history because it was against the law to teach or learn how to read and write. That’s history from that period along with it was an accepted practice for a female slave to be provided to a guest for companionship and comfort.

              Interesting, thought it was the liberal progressives that were into revisionary history.

            • knightowl77,

              I agree with you, well said.

          • What does ANY OF THIS have to do with the topic of this story??? NOTHING! Get back on track folks. That’s exactly why there’s not A LOT more people here, you all go on tangents that mean absolutely nothing!!!

            • This website is full of off topic tangents because Mac has been dragging his feet for a long time on creating a 1990s style forum… or as I suggested, building a social netwoking website with 2010s style profiles, friends, groups, private messaging, etc.


              • its true…i have been dragging my feet…but for good reason and something tht is out of my hands at this time…. give me a couple weeks and i am back to normal and we’ll have a 1990’s style forum by the end of june!

            • @ Anonymous. I think most of us are guilty of going off the topic on occasion, but there are some valuable ideas given. I am going to try to do something like what VRF does to conceal the noise of a generator, this was cool idea using a fan inside to keep the generator from overheating and putting it below a doghouse. I think that anything that has to do with the SHTF “plan” can help others prepare can be put anywhere in any article. This of course is just my opinion.

              I have to admit it that predicting earthquakes has little to do with the Greek power problem or the other day about the Illinois rep. becoming so upset, but I had to post it from what I saw. I knew an earthquake was coming after that earthquake in Antarctica and had to warn people. Two earthquakes 6.6 and 6.2 hit Panama earlier this evening. I was not right, yet, on the location but the event did happen. I hope that I do not upset anyone that I have to gotten off the topic.

              I also gave KY Mom some gift advice for father’s day about what good preparation gift she might like to get him. Again this was off the topic but did have to do with prepping. I am sure Mac will have a nice forum soon.

              The question I would like to know and I am sure Mac would also like to know is should people on an article have to stay on the topic only? If someone like myself or others sees something coming that could impact all of us, should we put this on the forum or anywhere that can alert people? What about a wonderful survival idea? Do you and others have suggestions on this? I am sure everyone wants to see this site become as successful and reach the maximum number of people as possible. The more minds working on survival the better chance all of us have WHEN it hits.

            • Be Informed,

              Thank you for the gift suggestion for my Dad! My parents have plenty of “stuff” accumulated over the years. I try to get them things they will need and use.

              Thanks again!
              KY Mom

        • True; but his step-grandson was a little better.

        • Just read my summary of slavery above. It was simply an institution that had its time and place in history and it should have ended in a non-violent fashion. The Civil War was the worst thing that ever happened to blacks in America. Slavery would have ended in the south legally (by legislation) within 10 or 20 years. Instead, you got a massive war followed by over 100 years of hatred, destruction, refugees, and cultural collapse. The South was right!

          • Slavery in any form is a horror….interesting then isnt it how those who condemn those from the past, live in and tolerate many other types of slavery…all the while wagging their fingers and tongues accusingly against those not here to defend themselves and acting as if they hold some moral high ground…naw….yep the South got er right!

      18. I’ve been wondering about Greece and electricity myself. At some point they’ll get the electricity turned on. Once the drachma replaces the euro the greeks will reap what they deserve from squandering other people’s money: their currency will drop in value. So will their artificially high wages and benefits. Greece will still be a train wreck. 10% of their population is government workers. Greeks can retire at 55 and 69% of them do according to wikipedia.

        • I wonder. Apparently the reason the power system is bankrupt is that Greeks, while they revel in Government subsidies and perks, don’t pay their taxes. They get a property tax bill, and just ignore it. This has been going on for decades. With the financial crisis looming, the Government had the bright idea of adding the tax owed to the electric bill. (EVERYBODY pays their electric bill, right?) So what the the Greeks do? They stopped paying their electric bills. Yup. Did the Government step in and make people pay? Nope. They just subsidized the electric company, using money they didn’t have because Greeks don’t pay their taxes. Just one more facet to the disaster.

          The collapse of Greece is the collapse of the most quintessentially “looter” national entity in Europe. Like the proverbial grasshopper, they will die when the free food and lodging dry up. With all due respect to Manos, good riddance. The world needs an example to remind everyone that TANSTAAFL.

          • Isn’t this happening in America in that state and local governments are issuing junk bonds (soliciting loans that eventually cannot be repaid) to cover all the tax shortfalls and unfunded pork projects?

            • Sadly, yes, just not quite as blatant as Greece. Although California comes close. Greece will be cut loose, and soon, because the rank and file German is totally fed up with subsidizing them. I worked for 15 years for a top-notch German technology company, and know that this was no secret even 3-4 years ago. Germany and Germans have worked their asses off ever since WW2 to create a viable economy that can export to earn money. This is an absolute for them, because their own land cannot produce enough to feed the population. They know it, and they act accordingly.

              Greece on the other hand is a deficit operation. They could produce enough to keep themselves fed, but having been on welfare ever since the Euro was created, they don’t bother. Times up! Germany’s gonna cut up the credit card, and Greece will have to live on what it can earn. If that turns out to be one slice of bread and a cup of cabbage soup per day, and no electricity, so be it.

        • The Greek people are getting very little benefit from the central bank bailouts. It is going to the Greek banks to bolster their balance sheets much the same way the bailouts in the USA are going to bolster the TBTF banks here.I fail to understand how people can blame the common man for these financial problems caused by the globalists.The same problems will be felt here in due time. We are all intended to be debt serfs to the NWO elite.Your masters love it when the house slaves talk bad about the field slaves. Hang em all!

        • @ Barncat
          Quote “Greeks can retire at 55 and 69% of them do according to wikipedia.” Don’t believe everything you read on wikipedia…in order for a simple working man to retire at 55 he has to have worked 35 years, that means you have to start working at age 20 and keep working without stop till you reach 55 some do that, most don’t others start at 18 not many though, the only exceptions that i know are military and police, also on 55 you get a reduced pension till you hit 65 where you get the normal one, If you think you can work past 70 and be productive sent me a video of you at age 70 working and being as productive as you were in your 30’s or 40’s. For the record I’m 30 and I don’t think that I will get a pension and I don’t care but I had to answer because I’ve seen this comment on many foreign sites and people actually believe it…
          Also about the part us Greeks don’t pay our taxes…well in a nutshell if you are poor or middle class and don’t pay your taxes the irs nails you good, if you owe a respectable amount of money say 500k and more they might arrest you then you promise to pay they let you go and the cycle goes on and on.
          Ordinary people can’t hide what they make, you work in the private sector you get paid x amount each month and have a house a car so on. The common people all pay at least up until now the tax they where due. When you climb up the ladder things start to get ugly. Let me tell you why many don’t pay the extra tax in the power bill, its simple, because they have no more money left to pay. Each family have at least 1 person that don’t work and those that do work take 20 or 30% less that is if they get paid at all. Personally I worked for a company for 6 years, last spring our boss stopped paying us and that went on for 6 months after much drama I got my money and fired along with all the people that earned more than 650 and he got some new people with 600 euros. This is the trend now, they tell you there is a crisis you are getting too much money (meaning 800 to 1000 euro per month) either you get less or we get a new guy from the thousands that are looking for a job and when you agree to less they stop paying altogether because this month thy are low on cash and crap like that. There are more I can say about the power bill tax but I will bore you with the details.
          Someone else wrote that we could be exporting food and make money….Ha ha ha ha…nice joke…..every government from the 80’s till now made sure we stop producing stuff and import everything, we have no heavy industry to speak of and our agriculture was based till recently by funding from the eu that said you can grow x amount of that thing only but instead if you grow x amount of that other thing ill give you a nice fat bonus so the farmers took the bait for lets say 20 years and produced not what the country needed in order to be self sufficient but what gave them a nice bonus along with the blessings of the sold out government.

          Sorry for the wall of text if it is too much or incoherent to read just ignore my vent.

          P.s I see many of you wonder how things are like on a day to day basis in Greece, just ask me exactly what you wish to know and Ill try το give you an answer.

          • Creon thank you for the forensic insight on the deliberate destruction of the grecian economy. I hope for the well being of greece that the nation leaves the euro soon. Also as you allude to the distortions that the utterly toxic EU imposes on the greek economy. You must realize thats where greeces most deadly enemies are, at least thats what it looks like on the outside looking in. I suspect that the “offered solution” will include a complete loss of sovereignty of the greek state regarding it’s budget down to the local level. Loss of the ability for it to exploit it’s own natural resources, profits going to connected multinational, the greek state gets to clean up the pollution. Loss of the value of labor, meaning pay cuts to below the subsistence level. Reducing greece to a “free trade zone” a sweatshop so to speak for the more advanced economies of the north. I guess you get the point. I am hoping that greece pulls an iceland. That will assure it’s survival as a sovereign state.


      19. it cant happen here because obama said were in recovery and things are getting better.
        greece just doesnt have a printing press to make money like we do.
        All we have to do is print some more money,pay off everything and everything is better,just ask obama

        • LOL

        • Sometimes sarcasm says it all…=)

      20. Soooo many people here think nothing like that will happen here. I just keep on prepping praying and waiting. I am a USA citizen living in Canada and don’t worry most are still sleeping up here as well. For those who do belive in the bible these things must all come to pass. However I do not believe Christians should live in denail thinking God will do it all, not that he can’t but I believe he gives us wisdom to use as well. It is coming to North America very soon and for many has already begun. But this will eventually happen here sooner than many think. Just take the time to watch and learn from the countries like Greece. Trust in God but don’t be lazy it is coming soon God Bless

      21. It’s time to write Greece off. They are goners. (we ain’t far behind)

      22. 105.9 billion a month (give or take) We won’t be far behind this disaster. I’m new to the message board, but been with you guys for awhile now. Been preparing for the long haul.

        • You’re a wise person…this economy can’t continue as is with more voters than workers.

      23. There are 104 operating nuclear power plants in the US. How ’bout adding a few more, and the gov’ment selling a 2kw solar shingles booster kit at cost (<$2000)? If southern households could provide energy for refrigeration systems via solar booster kits (no battery storage), this should cut home energy demands in half. Food supply impacts to follow. Take care. jpl


        All about foraging.

        We’re in deep trouble and we all know it!

      25. Fictional Novels written from historical fact. JWR’s Patriot is non-fiction in my opinion, it just has not happened yet! The scenarios that play out in his novel will prove to be so real you would think its following the script. Its not, its following history.

        JWR’s writing has happened throughout history, the way people will act is predictable. The only thing that changes is the technology we use to defend or kill with. We have become so efficient at killing each other that another world war would not last 3 weeks if nuclear weapons were deployed. In a sense we would be exterminating humanity and our selves.

        Just look at the head lines this week we have 3 cannibals in the news and their just drug crazed nut jobs. Imagine what will happen when there is no food and people are starving.

        Greece is not our looking glass, history is. Its all happened before.

        • Ever see the movie, “The Road”?

          • Man has survived thousands of years with just a big knife. It you know the basics of survival you can survive a lot, with very little. Clean water is your biggest challenge.

        • The first phase if WW3 may only last a few weeks. The spears and clubs phase that will follow will last decades, if not centuries. The key factor (IMHO) that made the European Dark Ages so dark was that what had been the Western Empire was in a continual state of war. The original concept of the term “dark ages” came about because Renaissance scholars could find so little in the way of documents from that time. No wonder – literacy wasn’t required to be a small-time warlord, any more than it is to be a drug gang boss today.

      26. Read about the fall of Rome. It’s called the Dark Ages and it’s where people forgot how to do all the wonderful things they had during the Roman era.

        • That is what happens with countrys that have spread themselves far and wide and devalued their monitary systems.

          The citizens have become lax in the battle for survival. The eazy button has been in placed and over used for far too long.

          So, when a country collapse’, the people left to pick up the pieces can’t put them back together again. Then your country goes through a dark age of struggling to survive, while a few (elite) gain power and control over the people.

      27. JW Rawles books are excellent and cannot wait for another

        • Patriots was good (read it three times), but I wasn’t so keen on Survivors. Bored me to death.

      28. perhaps sending photo image of mussolini hanging from a lamp post to your elected official might get them thinking?

        • Go to youtube and you can see videos of the trial and execution of Romanian dictators Nicolae and Elena Ceausescu.

          Gives me warm fuzzies every time I see it.

          • How odd. Two thumbs down on my comment about executing tyrants.

            I guess some people love being slaves.

            For you two peanut brains who gave me the thumbs down, why don’t you consider the thousands of destroyed lives and even deaths for which these global elites have been responsible.

            Actually…..hanging or firing squad is probably going to easy on them.

            The final outcome for all tyrants should be that they lose the very life that they sought to take from their victims.

            Check out the youtube videos. Listen to the condemnation of those tyrants…..the biggest crime they were accused of committing, was destroying the spirit of the Romanian people.

            Death is the only thing these filthy tyrants understand. And it’s what they deserve.

      29. If the power goes out, that will truly wake up the masses to the fact that the S has officially HTF. That’s what it will take for them to actually be aware of it – the TV forcibly being turned off.

        That is when the real ugliness will begin.

        • Daisy: Thought provoking comment – how dare anyone suggest an interruption to worshiping the image? That is, if worship is to give your thoughts to. A culture crash maybe be our transition to enlightenment – to thinking more on life.

        • And here I thought it was the lack of Big Gulps…

      30. As I consider the ramifications of what ‘collapse’ can mean in this wonderful nation; our nation, The United States of America…. I remember a fact that is frightening to the extreme.
        No power on earth, no other army or force has ever caused the desolation, the deaths, the destruction of more here, than Americans fighting Americans. The war dead of the Civil War exceeds the total of all wars just up to the Persian Gulf conflicts. In total – all of the other wars. From the Revolutionary on through Viet Nam. Anyone can check the casualty facts. Do the simple addition.
        Too, our soldiers and sailors are indeed sworn – not just for a term of enlistment; rather, for life – to protect and defend the U.S. Constitution. As in actuality all Americans are who claim citizenship.
        We must go with caution in the times to come. These coming events are not a game, not a chance to “get even”, a time to hurt so many whose only crimes are but failing to pay attention, being slothful, ignorant.
        We all, I believe, have a profound faith faith that God has blessed this land especially. Before anyone considers taking up arms against his fellow countrymen – remember that. Ultimately, we all will be facing a judgment that there is no excuse for misdeed.
        So, a general ‘cool your jets’ is in order as a suggestion. Be prepared for the worst and pray for the best. Is not that what we all really want? The betterment and restoration of the glory that is this country? My God, I hope so. I truly hope so.

        • Heartless: A little soap-boxing on a pet peeve – If this philosophy is good for US citizens, why wouldn’t it be good for the whole world? From what I’ve read, God, as well as can be known, does not discriminate on whom he sends rain, on whom he feeds, on whom he gives life – in that regard, he has blessed this planet especially – especially for all life. It’s the political, economic, and religious leaders that implement and teach discrimination packaged in an alluring national, monetary, and spiritual wrapper. Why is manifest destiny and carrying the white man’s burden still at work at this time in human history? To call an end to civil wars is also to call an end to world wars. Heartless, I endorse your philosophy but on a scale fit for all life.

      31. Greece has about the same land area of Alabama.
        Greece has about the same population as Ohio.
        Greece has about the same arable land as the United States. 19.8% to 17.8% for the U.S.
        Greece is at about the same latitude 35-42 degrees north.
        Greece has many natural resources; petroleum, iron, lead, nickel, magnesite, like the U.S.
        Greece also has allowed itself to fall into the vicous cycle of debt and pay it later just like the U.S.

        One word to describe what Greece and the United States have done with their wealth is “SQUANDER”. Most countries do not have the luxary of a Mediterrean climate to grow food and the excess to export food to other countries. Every person needs food and when you are a country that can sell a renewable resource and are going into debt, you have a terrible government running things.

        Greece has 1080 people per square mile of arable land, which means that they can export food to other countries as income. Spain, another Mediterrean climate 25.1% arable land, has only 892 people per sq. mile of arable land. The United States has only 487 people per sq. mile of arable land. All 3 countries are F’ed when it comes to finance, yet all 3 countries have the natural resources to help feed the world. BAD GOVERNMENT for all 3 countries.

        I could see Greece maybe having problems, the people over there are not education driven as their industries are more tourist, food products, textiles, and mining driven. Spain has less of an excuse as their industries are more technical; chemicals, shipbuilding, automobiles, and other similar industries to Greece.

        The United States on the other hand has everything going right for the country. The U.S. is suppose to be a superpower, yet it is falling into the same trap as Greece. The United States has the most intelligent minds on the planet. No country has more inventions than the U.S. The U.S. is loaded with almost all natural resources on the planet other than some rare Earth minerals. The U.S. manufactures practically everything that humans use of the planet. What the hell is going wrong?

        The United States probably has the worst government on the planet. Other than some tinhorn little prick dictator running hid country’s wealth into elaborate palaces like that piece of crude hussein, the U.S. government has to be the largest example of utter failures ever. Other countries with far less to work with are much better off than the U.S. is right now.

        Honestly you would think with the vast resources that the U.S. has that everybody here would be living quite well. You would think that unemployment would be near zero. You would think that people would be safe and secure. You would think that there would be a trade deficit all right, big time in the U.S. favour. Yeah you would think.

        The blame rests squarely with the United States government and those that voted them in, they have squandered away the good very hard working American people’s lives and their future. The U.S. government is just one notch above banana republic disposable dictator type state. The U.S. government gets a big fat “F”, and a “F-” if they gave out grades like this. Then the government after utterly failing the people has the gall to even think about ever issuing martial law.

        If the majority of the people were not total sheep and woke up and saw what the intelligent people see, like the ones that visit this site, they would never have allowed those corrupt mafia type leaders to ever have gotten voted into office. It reminds me of someone with much wealth going to Las Vegas and getting the gambling fever and “frittering away” their entire assets and then getting credit to continue to UNTIL………

        National Lampoon’s Vegas Vacation where Chevy Chase bankrupts his family on gambling before getting bailed out on dumb luck really makes about as much sense as what has happened to the United States. The U.S. though has no way of bailing itself out because the credit bug has bitten it and continues to bite it. Even with having someone else buy out your credit, like China, will not work until your debt is stablized. No one is going to bail out the U.S. other than a war, just like so many other times in history. I have rambled enough, it just upsets me how something with so much can squander and blow what they have, security of vast resoruces given on a silver platter to just throw away.

        • Our government has deliberately created a large class of people dependent on government and unwilling to work. Starting with FDR the government has promised more and more benefits and raised taxes more and more to pay for them. The coming collapse has been planned. Their end game is a one-world government.

        • VERY well said BI!!! Thank you for your thoughts, they are right on!!!

        • The demise of the US has been a slow deliberate orchestrated program. This is not just because of shortsightedness. This began long before most people here were even born. It is hard for people to see because it has been so gradual.

          • those that wish to break America are doing it so that the dollar will no longer be the global currency in which petroleum must be bought and sold.

            America’s dollar, our constitution, our independently-armed citizenry and our capitalist economy are more of a threat to the one-world currency and the NWO than the jihadists and the drug cartels put together….

          • @ JustMe and Barn cat. There were so many good hard working Americans in this country when I grew up that were so happy and secure to make the country stronger. When I see a country with so much being driven down the drain, down the cess pool, and making good Americans into dependent on the government for everything, it makes my stomach turn.

            I use to think that maybe 25-35% of the people prepared and the country could still function and pull itself back up after practically any disaster. Talk about being not informed and looking at things in an unrealistic optimistic delusional state of mind. Head in the clouds I was last century. I am now very thankful that at least 1% still try to be prepared.

            Really, I “use to think” where I live people were ready and would weather the storm. Then after the many power outages that have struck over the years I see just how totally unprepared people are. You hear a couple of generators for hundreds of houses. Hours go by and take a walk and you see MOST of the houses completely dark, not even a candle burning. Then go to a garage sale and the prepper has a treasure trove of preparation items like candles being sold for pennies or less from their previous cost. Where are these people coming from?

            EVERYBODY out there. Try it the next time there is a long term power outage and see how few people are ready and how many people don’t even have any light at all. OR get this one, how many people that get into their homes only through the garage door opening are sitting in their cars waiting for the power to come back on because they forgot to put that extra key to open another door. 99% of those fail to think ahead anymore. You should see it when the water faucets don’t have any water coming out, that is when people start to panic. Do they remember the experience and do something to keep reserves for the a future episode? NOT!

            Call me nostalgic, but when I was much younger so many more people were ready and took the effort to store up at least a couple of weeks worth of food. Now the average household might have enough to get them by for a couple of days. Most households don’t even have more than a case of water. SHTF doesn’t have to happen for more than 3 days or so and everything is going to fall apart just like after Hurricane Katrina. It is so frustrating to see good people that I know become so naive thinking mr. big brother will roll up with the trucks and distribute food like some a bunch of Santa Clauses. Thank goodness 1% still think of Santa Claus as a fully stocked pantry of food, water, and other necessities.

            It “has” been so gradual just like another article that I read about slowly boiling a frog or lobster to death. I think the WORST event that ever happened was when people stopped taking civil defense seriously. Even though some of the realism of jamming a bunch of people into a building before the missiles came in didn’t make as much sense. Civil defense was about being prepared, and when the civil defense shelters and the idea of being ready went away last century so did the chances of the United States recovering even after a medium size SHTF event. 🙁

            • The statistic I keep reading is that 3% of the US population are preppers. MAYBE they’re preparing for enough other people that 10% of the US population will be provided for besides whatever the federal government does. Once the collapse happens I see at least 80% of the US population dying.

              As I get older I see more and more people having kids out of wedlock. They get food stamps, government housing, and they don’t pay income taxes. They also don’t want to work. They become what I like to call “kid ranchers.” They have more kids than responsible citizens. And of course their kids are much less likely to stay out of trouble and make something out of themselves.

        • I don’t blame the government. I blame anyone and everyone who votes. All federal-level votes and most state and local-level votes, no matter how well intentioned, represent active participation in an illegitimate government. I also blame the oath fakers. Every cop and military man who puts on a uniform and collects a government paycheck without refusing unlawful orders (which are de rigueur today) is at fault. Until the military, federal marshalls, and cops back up the people and arrest these treasonous scumbags by the thousands, they are not oath keepers, they are oath fakers.

          • Not EVERYONE who votes, please.

      32. I worry about the gangs… They guys are already a private army. A bright spot is the local towns can easily put the word out to mobilize the locals.

        If this happens….the gang will respond first.

        Better team up with your neighbors and be ready.

        The gang bangers better be careful…as the general population is tired of their shit….in WROL…I think the newly formed militia will take some liberties and deal with them once and for all and nobody will give a shit. So warning to gang bangers…. better be careful what you start….. somebody will finish it.

        • There will be a lot more home owners with guns than home owners with food. Chances are the gangs will be wiped out because too many home owners have guns and too few will have food. A gang might have to invade ten homes a day to find enough food. Half of those homes will have people who are armed. It won’t take long and the gangs will be gone.

          • the way i see it…the gang bangers and local authorities will duel it out..the gang bangers will win as they’ll target unprotected wife’s and children of police and sheriff’s offline ( they probably already know their addresses)…at that point, police an sheriffs will resign and recognize, fallback to protect their families.
            .and realized they’ve been bamboozleded by TPTB…

            The bangers have large weapons cache, and have the legs to ride this out till the end…and the ability to recruit…

            its one scenario i foresee

            • Cops, both local and federal, DO NOT look forward to dueling with people who will shoot first or shoot back. They prefer to spend their days pursuing peaceful, largely unarmed Americans who are comitting victimless crimes.

        • I have given a bit of thought on this matter as well. The way it will more than likely transpire is this: 50% will will be exterminated in the big cities, on their own accord. 25% will make it to the suburbs.

          Here is the kicker. Those that do make out to the rural areas will be hardened off and highly skilled. I leave nothing to chance. Get your Early Warning Devise’s (EWD) in order.

          A mouse trap can be converted to an EWD with epoxy, shotgun shell, fishing line, and a tack/nail. I’m sure a lot of you can visualize this. Blank shell is optional:)

          The nefarious in nature and unprepared in our local area will be dispatched rapidly. Calcium Oxide?

      33. It’s going to be a preview of what’s coming to America in the near future. It would be interesting to see a two hour documentary of the collapse of Greece after they leave the euro.

        Greece will go back to the drachma. They still have too many people getting too many benefits. Greece will immediately print too much money to pay their bills and they’ll have hyperinflation right from the start.

        The end game is most likely a dictatorship that ends all government benefits.

        • Yup. Only by overwhelming force will the Greek people give up the looter lifestyle to which they have become accustomed. Like the Romans before them. Giving up the practice of educating our youth intensively on the history of Rome is perhaps the seed of our own downfall. As the sage said: “those who do not know history are doomed to repeat it”.

          Judging by the news, large swaths of the USA will require the same brutal treatment. Which is why we prep.

        • Who knows, Frontline (PBS show) may do one. They did one on the Lehman thing.

          • i’d encourage everyone to view the multi part frontline pbs series…on wall street and learn how obama had a chance to fix the corrupt greed but chose to look the other way….

        • I can’t agree more. Real criminals generally fear armed homeowners more than the cops. Homeowners have bigger guns and don’t hesitate to shout “freeze”.

          • Or print “we don’t dial 911” on the door!!!

      34. All these problems & Greece is STILL in the EURO!
        Think about the Greek freedom when they go to the drachma & decide their OWN financial affairs.
        The EURO is so democratic that Greece is NOT allowed to set interest rates or even to print money. That is NOT democratic is is like wearing concrete shoes while swimming, ie you will drown!
        Greece should come out of the Euro & decide their OWN financial policies!

      35. Glad I bought the new diesel generator. With it I can power my entire house including the well/water pump. It’s in the faraday cage in the basement now.

        Yeah, I know, I’m a paranoid nutjob but prepping is fun 🙂

      36. looks like we’re going to soon see a lot of recently-arrived Greeks competing with the wetbacks for entry-level labor….

        At least the Greeks will move-up in a few years instead of a few generations like the wetbacks…

      37. I love the way the Greeks of today claim liniage to the great Greeks of antiquity like Aristotle and Lionades…’s almost as pathrtic as todays Egyptian mutts claiming to be the same people who saw the pyramids built when in all reality they’re just excess population transients squatting in the ruins of a once-great civilization.

        • I agree. America is the last place on earth that isn’t yet a “once great civilization”. If and when the lights go out here, they go out everywhere. If the military finally does the job it is obligated to do and arrests a few hundred or a few thousands clowns from Obama and Brenanke on down, America can and will revert back to its former glory overnight.

          • See, here we do agree.
            I do think this will be devastating for our nation.
            But, how long can this last? Other than a nuclear meltdown nation wide which will kill us real soon, or an EMP attack, this nation should be up and running in a few months.
            I have years of stores, but am praying they won’t be needed.
            Gas will be the biggest problem. Gardens will not be grown with mules.
            How many have satellited your area and found all ponds near your home?? I have.







        • @ the realist

          I’m with you all the way. Seems as if the good Lord is about to change the channel.

          Seems as if Putin’s back is against the wall, and he must defend Syria and Iran, or the Saudi’s take control of the whole Middle East.

          • who would of ever thought i would be fighting the fight of my life at 42!!

            i guess fate will tell us all in due time

      39. Word to the wise…if the lights do go out….a humming genrator tells your neighbors that you have light, heat, fresh food and fuel and once their stuff runs out (if they even have any) they will line up to buy, beg for or steal your supplies…eventually they will tip off the inevitable one-percenters and raiders if you don’t share or surrender your stuff to the community.

        So much the better to have a solar setup with deep cycle marine batteries to just keep your comms charged, turn your house fans on to keep cool and to keep your food cold.

        Just think about how far the humming of a generator will carry in a silent countryside once everyone else’s fuel has been exhausted.

        • I have mine in a very deep hole, with a dog house over it.
          because the engine is air cooled, i have a 20″ fan placed inside with a vent, so while its running the fan is on

          cant hear it on a cold dead night , i can walk 4 feet from it and the dam crickets are louder

          • @ VRF. That is so clever, that is why I love this site, inventive people sharing their ideas with everybody. I wish I could give you 20 green thumbs for that one.

          • How do you start it with it under the ground???

            • OOps…I get it…under dog house in deep hole does NOT mean underground, just in deep hole, and there is no dog, but fake dog house??

          • I assume the exhaust discharges above ground. How do you keep that noise down?

            I had mine in a garage exhausting through the wall into a steel 55 gallon drum outside that has ten two inch holes in the lid and a single one inch hole in the bottom for water. The sound was very low and inaudible from 50 ft away when the garage door is closed.

            If you have lights someone that can add will figure something is up.

      40. Off topic…

        Can anyone recommend a food storage gift? Any special sales?

        I am searching for a gift to send my Dad for Father’s Day. I have some books to send him, but would like to add some food items.

        Thank you!
        KY Mom

        • Emergency Essentials does gift cards I believe…or you can just pick the items yourself to be sent

        • I’d consider a variety case of Mountain House #10 cans. It would not be cheap, perhaps a couple hundred bucks depending on what you get, but you would be giving him a chance to ride out part of the storm.

        • @ KY Mom. How about a nice food dehydrator, this makes all sorts of food taste really good and is really practical. I once got a gift of fresh raw honey from a farm and this lasted forever and I stored up some it, still have it, as honey last forever. Bees pollinate all sorts of different types of flowers, and two of the best I personally tasted was orange and lemon honey. Another kind of nice gift would be someway of keeping food rotated and fresh like a shelf organizer. Pratical gifts sometimes don’t have the flash of other gifts, but when someone continues to enjoy and use them throughout the year, they are so appreciated.

        • costco dot com – you can order everything from a bucket of rice to complete pallets of food and the shipping is (usually) included. just search “emergency”. if you are looking for “things” rather than just food, food storage made easy dot NET has good sales. one other very cool thing is a kelly kettle. can heat up water with just a few twigs. emergency essentials has them on sale, or you can go to the original website to read about the history behind them.

          • Wouldn’t that lead a paper trail right to your door?

            Who knows who might come a’knockin’ when the collapse comes?

            • i’m all for opsec, but time is short and there’s just stuff i can’t buy locally, esp as a newish prepper. besides, if “they’re” using costco for my paper trail, then “they” also know about cheaper than dirt. i’d rather have a case or two from CTD than a box or two from a monthly gun show. a bazillion people have ordered from them for a long, long time.

            • and having lived in florida, most everyone with a lick of sense has a hurricane box and a way to defend it, so ordering food and camping supplies isn’t as big a deal as if you live in nebraska or something. although there you’d need it if snow’d in…..always some reason to prep!

        • Thank you everyone for the great suggestions!! 🙂

          KY Mom

      41. iF EEVERYONE IS SO CRAZY about the SHTF then how can you be in the city? A job is no excuse, anything crazy will be in the cities So just get out and be a scout get prepped for about a year an just sit back because I really don’t think anything is going to happen to this country That we can’t take care of [ short of some crazy nuclear attack or EMP or CME or mutant zombies from space or a death meteor etc…]Wal-Mart is open 24 hours for your shopping pleasure!

      42. Benjamin Fulford

        look him tube him..listen to his interviews..rockefeller..nwo etc..formulate your own opinions

      43. This a little off the subject matter, but it still applies. I just got thru watching “V for Vendetta” for the 6th time, A MUST WATCH FOR EVERY PATRIOT. Every time I watch it I find something new I missed. Today was no different. When the Chancellor was telling them to put out as much propaganda as they could to scare the people and make them feel as though they needed the GOVERNMENT. My first thought was the stories we read everyday about a virus with no cure, a financial collapse or something else that the people will need the Government to bail them out.You get the picture, I have no doubt that we have many problems to face but we can handle with out the Government sticking it’s nose in our business. This is our Country… why do we allow a Government gone bad to continue to dictate our lives. You have no Freedoms.

        “I predict future happiness for Americans, if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them.”
        ― Thomas Jefferson

      44. My prediction is that Iran will step up to help Greece, Turkey will join the coalition, Israel will invent another new devious way to fool Americans and Europeans into another war but this time it will backfire.

        • LOL OK MORON.

        • Go throw yourself into an oven you piece of shit.

      45. 85-90% of time after earthquake activity towards the magnetic pole, you get an earthquake usually 6.5 or more within 5 days, this time is no different:

        As posted about 2 and 1/2 days ago, sure enough an earthquake came. 6.6 towards Panama. There was earlier today a 5.3 south of 60 degrees south:

        I saw different areas that seemed to be stressed out and ready; New Zealand, China and Japan area, and even Southern California to Oregon as primed. Just because this 6.6 hit doesn’t mean that something else still is not coming. I still say that up until June 6 these areas could still see an earthquake in the 6.2-7.4 range.

        You can check the comment post on the article about the Illinois state representative becoming so upset on the two posts on June 1 at 10:22 AM and 2:05 PM that predict an earthquake within 5 days that is 6.2-7.4, probably above 6.5. Just didn’t get the right location this time correct. There are still 3 days left though to get the right location.

        This is not tooting my own horn as being correct, it is about proving that earthquakes can be predicted. There are precursors, someone just has to find those signs of what to look for. Remember that south of 60 degrees south and north of 70 degrees north means look out 85-90% of the time.

        • 6.1 hit indonesia java. after reading your posts for quite a while now, i think you are on to something…

      46. Breaking news at Fox News…

        6.6 magnitude earthquake strikes off Panama’s Pacific coast.

      47. Greetings Everyone!
        Mac:I’m on board for “aid” to Manos if he’ll accept it,for friends of his in desperate need,if not for himself.As a Christian,I just finished reading the part where “relief funds” were asked to be set aside each month for the brothers in Jerusalem due to the plundering of their homes and personal wealth by the Jews(We’ll call them Bankers this time around).Whatever one could afford(and the Scriptures gave honorable mention of those who went beyond that!)is what they set aside for the relief missions.St.Paul even took the much longer and tiresome land journey to avoid the thugs the “Bankers” had waiting for him in nearby ports to murder him and steal the collected funds.He even had nine brothers accompany him to keep the large amount of funds safe from robbers along the way.I might be off-topic,but perhaps this version of aiding those in desperate need on a very personal level might have some small merit.Given the many pitfalls in today’s world(esp. the bankers!)it may not work,or perhaps it might.
        Just my thoughts,I’m sure there may be better ones out there.
        All the Best,

      48. I hope that guy who was doing those reports for this site is the first to go LOL

      49. TO KY-MOM I really think a good food storage deal comes from Sams Club Auguson Farms has survival foods and with Sams the shipping is free!!!they have 3 months, a year or you can buy 57 cases with free shipping go online an check it out- under the grocery section it has survival foods.

        • Geo-Lithic,

          Thank you for the gift ideas! 🙂

          There have been so many excellent suggestions…now I am having a hard time deciding which one to get for him.

          Take care!
          KY Mom

      50. I know I’m at the bottom of a long comment list but I’d like to take the opportunity to ask the good folks at SHTFPlan to stop using soft media terms like “civil unrest” rather that more accurate descriptors such as lawlessness, rioting and anarchy
        You can tell the indoctrination is doing its job when PC BS words like this make their way into front-line survival sites such as this one.

        • No offence intended. It happens to the best of us.

        • Ausprepper:I believe that most folks here are aware the “civil unrest” is like the “Civil War”.There was nothing civil about it(Esp. in the Southern States!)except that the plantation owners became afraid that their genteel way of “mighty fine high living” might be coming to an end(which after four bloody years,it did).The same applies today to the even higher living Financial wizards of Wall Street.That why there will be a QE3,4,5,…and then boom!The current CEO of AIG spoke about how QE3 would be good for “main street people”.Where have we heard that pig slop before?The top folks at AIG are so yesterday.Until the SHTF arrives,your next car purchase should be a pickup truck(to carry the fiat money around to buy gas,food etc…or just prep until you have some spare to sell at the local “flea market”.Can’t think of what you would need except the tradesmen skills you don’t have….
          Best to All
          Any Bets as how far down Wall Street fall?
          I calling it at just about 10500 this year,7500 the next

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