On the surface and in the talking points, the Stop Online Piracy Act is designed to quell the distribution of intellectual property like software, movies and music.
US lawmakers introduced a bill on Wednesday that would give US authorities more tools to crack down on websites accused of piracy of movies, television shows and music and the sale of counterfeit goods.
The Stop Online Piracy Act has received bipartisan support in the House of Representatives and is the House version of a bill introduced in the Senate in May known as the Theft of Intellectual Property Act or Protect IP Act.
The legislation has received the backing of Hollywood, the music industry, the Business Software Alliance, the National Association of Manufacturers, the US Chamber of Commerce and other groups.
…
“Rogue websites that steal and sell American innovations have operated with impunity,” Smith [House Judiciary Committee chairman] said in a statement.
“The online thieves who run these foreign websites are out of the reach of US law enforcement agencies and profit from selling pirated goods without any legal consequences,” he said.
…
“The bill prevents online thieves from selling counterfeit goods in the US, expands international protections for intellectual property, and protects American consumers from dangerous counterfeit products,” Smith said.
Source: Breitbart
The bill, if passed, would require Internet Service Providers to initiate a China-style lock down of web sites, foreign or domestic, that engage in activities violating provisions of the new law. Essentially, once the regulatory entity in charge decides that a particular web site has gone ‘rogue’ they will have the ability to shut down access by blocking the IP addresses in question, in effect taking the web site offline to all U.S. internet users.
But the Stop Online Piracy Act isn’t just about piracy of music, movies and software. It goes much further than that. Like everything emanating from Washington, the devil is in the details, and the details (all 78 pages of them) suggest their is an ulterior motive for pushing through the new bill:
…the authors of HR 3261 would require advertisers, credit card companies and other payment processors to stop providing ads or payment services to any site that a copyright or trademark holder claimed was “dedicated to the theft of U.S. property.” No court would need to be involved unless the operator of the site filed a counter-notice asserting that it didn’t fit the bill’s definition of a dedicated infringer.
That definition is so broad, it could snare all sorts of cloud-based services, said Markham Erickson, executive director of the NetCoalition tech advocacy group. The problem starts with the bill’s focus on Web “sites,” which as a technical matter can be a single page within a domain. An eBay listing could be considered a “site,” as could a Facebook timeline, a Flickr page or a Dropbox folder.
…
“This bill is a direct attack on technology,” Erickson said. “Technology that allows for sharing of informtation … anything that could foster infringement can be covered by this bill. To me, that’s the headline of this. This is a dramatically different approach from what we’ve seen.”
…
This bill raises serious red flags. It includes the most controversial parts of the Senate’s Protect IP Act, but radically expands the scope. Any website that features user-generated content or that enables cloud-based data storage could end up in its crosshairs. ISPs would face new and open-ended obligations to monitor and police user behavior. Payment processors and ad networks would be required to cut off business with any website that rightsholders allege hasn’t done enough to police infringement. The bill represents a serious threat to online innovation and to legitimate online communications tools.
Source: LA Times
In the last decade, as traditional press and television media sacrificed truth and metamorphosed into nothing more than propaganda arms for government policies and their corporate sponsors, millions of citizens journalists have risen up to fill the void. Whether you’ve created a web site to distribute information and news, or regularly contribute to an online community by sharing news links, excerpts, or video clips, you are part of this growing truth movement referred to collectively as ‘alternative news media.’ Unlike the officially recognized members of the fourth estate, easily identified by the press passes they wear or the news vans they drive, alternative news is driven not by the whims of centralized producers and presstitutes willing to sell their souls for more access, but rather, by those concerned with disseminating and acquiring the real truth, no matter how uncomfortable it may be.
The Stop Online Piracy Act would essentially force web sites that offer users the ability to generate content to constantly monitor and police their comment areas, forums and social networks for “pirates” who have shared news clips or article excerpts with other community members. Furthermore, it has been suggested that the vague language in the new law would not only give private companies the ability to request an all-access shutdown of a rogue web site, but government as well – and not just for content generated by users visiting a particular site.
The government recently made headlines when they attempted to censor videos and stories on the internet surrounding police brutality, and while these instances cannot be categorized as piracy, the government argues that they fall under definitions of “defamation,” and as such the consequences for web sites that refuse removal would be the same as for suspected internet pirates:
“US authorities also called for the removal of 113 videos from YouTube, including several documenting alleged police brutality which Google refused to take down.”
…
The reason listed for the removal of a You Tube video in one instance is “government criticism”. The exact identity or content of the video is not divulged. The report states that the removal requests pertaining to “police brutality” were done on the grounds of “defamation” and are included in that separate category, meaning the takedown order on the grounds of “government criticism” was made by the “executive,” ie the federal government.
Source: Prison Planet
One of the key provisions of the law indicates that those corporate entities or government agencies that feel violated would have the ability to shut down a particular web page or site without intervention by the judicial system. Though the regulations are not exactly clear, this basically means that if a complaint is filed the web site operator is presumed guilty and their site would be shutdown. They would then be forced to prove their innocence – a process, that given the expediency of government bureaucracy, could take weeks or months.
Earlier this year, the government shut down numerous web sites for selling pirated sports content. But they didn’t stop there, they also punished web sites that simply linked to that content. One day soon it may be illegal for web site likes this one and many others in the alternative media sphere to publish excerpts like we have within this article or even to link to other web sites that have published material that may violate a copyright.
Make no mistake, this is a thinly veiled attack not on pirates (because laws for this kind of activity already exist, whether on the internet or offline), but alternative news media and controversial online communities. When there existed only three “news” channels and a handful of influential print newspapers the message could be easily controlled and repeated to the masses. With the advent of alternative media in the last decade, those who would rule us no longer have the ability to control the message. And this scares them.
It is the ability of the alternative news media network to identify key stories and issues, and then spread that information to millions of people instantly, which has become a serious threat to a system in which politicians and their corporate partners have lurked in the shadows of lawlessness, greed and socially engineered control for decades.
If you happen across this or your favorite web site in the near future and see the following image, now you’ll know why:
Holy crap. I knew this would be coming but I didn’t expect it this quickly!
Does this worry you about the future of your site, Mac? Are there some loopholes to get around the scope of Big Brother?
Alt media will always find a loop hole Daisy!
Recently we ran a story about a ridiculous claim by a mainstream TV channel that suggested gold is back by nothing, unlike the US dollar. We put the video on our Youtube site. Within a few days we received a copyright violation from Youtube and YT advised that the next such violation would be cause for suspension of our YT account. Apparently CTV, embarrassed by the video clip, was hammering all content providers on the web and forcing removals. Mike Adams of natural news found a work around for it and the clip has remained on his web site since… you can check out more details on this here: https://www.shtfplan.com/precious-metals/media-lunacy-gold-is-backed-by-nothing-unlike-the-us-dollar-which-is-backed-by-the-american-government_09292011
What Mike proved is that when it comes to short media clips, where there is a will there’s a way.
Additionally, with respect to the content I personally generate, for the time being I will continue to pull 1 – 4 paragraph excerpts, source those excerpts appropriately and provide commentary as I have done in the past. In general, this should fall under Fair Use Provisions, because our intent is not to benefit personally or to flat-out steal that content, but rather, to open a discussion on the issues.
With respect to user-generated comments, for example this comment area, that’s a whole different ball game. Web sites like this one were supposed to be protected by the Digital Millennium Copyright Act to some extent… basically, with hundreds of users and in excess of 50,000 comments on this web site, it is impossible for me to moderate and review every piece of submitted content. If I am made aware of a copyright infringement, i take action pretty quickly, but we simply cannot read every single comment and be able to identify it as an original work of someone else.. The DMCA was supposed to provide a level of protection to web site operators in this respect and actually has worked great for us thus far.
But, this new legislation more or less rewrites these provisions and essentially infers that a site can be shut down BEFORE we are made aware of the infringement… There are no courts… just some obscure regulatory body somewhere that no doubt merges government with embedded corporate experts, and they determine who gets shut down… I am sure there will be a work around for this, as well…. My guess is, that if this becomes an issue, some enterprising computer genius will come up with an application that integrates with forum and comment areas, cross references every user generated post with existing search engine information databases, and flags potentially copyrighted material for admin approval. That would likely fix the issue… The software already exists to do this and this is how many web sites protect their copyrights, but it has not yet been integrated into social networking applications and user generated content areas.. But if it comes to that, I have no doubt it will become available fairly quickly… Millions of web site owners like me will demand it and the private sector will deliver!
So, effectively, you, or another site owner, would be guilty until you took THEM to court, to prove yourself innocent. Basically, they are just going to make it a PITA to keep these sites up and running.
Methinks they do not realize what they are up against. If you all were the “bend over and take it” types, you wouldn’t be ticking people off by running these sites in the first place.
Let the games begin!
Lol! The folks that operate sites like mine, and especially those who drive them to success ( the users and contributors) are definitely not the bend-over-take-it types.
Sadly, when websites find a “work around” the gubmint thugs will “be forced” to take over internet control completely. They will explain how they “had no choice” but to do this to “protect the children”.
Let’s look at reality. They killed the free music site by trying to bankrupt it’s founder who took his money and ran.
Capitalism and technology will win. It will over come the socialist and fascist every time and win. Look at Egypt…Mubarak managed to shut it down and he was quickly dispatched. We even manage to get info out of Iran once in a while.
Government Fail
Daisy, re-read your statement again, then laugh.
Why yes, there are many ways around blockades. In fact, it doesn’t even require hacking to go anywhere in the world, regardless of the blockade. The downside is that it’s not immediately intuitive how to become anonymous on the internet. There are tutorials, however, and responding to the lies of government will require considerably more than copying and pasting a URL.
The next obvious step would be simple. Enforce transparency of government, exposing it as the totalitarian fascist state that it manifests itself to be. Secrets only exist in government to hide evil.
I wonder if THEY will protect us from the REALITY of an army commercial like this one:
http://youtu.be/TKnvS6LWnn8
Maybe it’s time to get started on a back-up hardcopy rag….
The Real Humdinger will be the day they pull the plug on “accessing” the Internet.
Imagine that!
Where will one access “Relative Truth”, then?
EA this is what Egypt attempted to block, and while it did impact the masses it didn’t work to the extreme. Techno’s will find a way around it, and with phones/pads/notebooks/and desktops et al being capable of accessing, hosting, and lets not forget TV’s now doing the same…..just isn’t feasible. The backlash they’d get for trying would be so overwhelming, but even if they found a way I believe in our techno friends to over come it, adapt, and bring the people back on.
I’ve already eliminated TV as a source of brainwashing^W honest journalism and ended my decade old subscription to dish network. It does serve a higher purpose, however, as a big screen VGA monitor. I hear something’s going to happen on November 9th at 2PM EST on every TV channel. Whatever.
NOVEMBER’s going to be THE month. Especially between the 8th and the 12th and escalating there after.
Mid November 2011.
Starting in a little over a week.
This is NO DRILL!
The gubmint crowd are in full panic mode. Panic usually leads to stupid decisions that you quickly regret.
Bend over, $5 foot long.
That wasn’t funny. That was damn funny! Don’t let anyone push your button.
I think they’re $6.75 now.
I will for $4.00. Hey, wait a minute, what the hell are yall talking about?
They drew first blood on our warriors. The situation will not improve.
Did Oakland Police Intentionally Shoot Marine Vet Scott Olsen In the Head? http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2011/10/marine-veteran-whose-skull-was-fractured-in-oakland-protests-was-peacefully-standing-when-attacked-by-police.html
“They” always draw first blood, always have, always will
therefore when the shit goes down, they will only have themselfs to blame for it
There is a mindless enslavement to the machine of government. Recognizing that enslavement is the first step towards true freedom.
Don’t be be too naive. They WILL draw first blood, but they will blame us.
Shouldn’t have had uniform on. Was an easy target. The match has been lit.
The kid is uneducated and shouldn’t be chilling with Commies. He said fuck his Oath and I’m saying fuck him. If he was protesting the federal reserve, I’d respect him.
You have the right to voice your opinion. Afterall, that’s what he pledged, as a soldier, to protect.
Communism is the opposite of Our Constitutional Republic. Under Communism, you have no Rights. The soldier is marching with Communists. How exactly is this protecting our Rights?
oathkeepers.org
Hmmm, 3 thumbs down on that. So, no, iowa says doesn’t have the right or no, he didn’t pledge to protect those rights? What’s the verdict?
Bless your little heart, darling. You’re special aren’t ya?
Is it just me ?? Am I the only one seeing that California PD officers serve under a code book of their own making??
Oath Keepers: Orders We Will Not Obey
10. We will NOT obey any orders which infringe on the right of the people to free speech, to peaceably assemble, and to petition their government for a redress of grievances.
Amen.
http://oath-keepers.blogspot.com/2009/03/oath-keepers-declaration-of-orders-we.html
You are 100% right, Charlie. You speak the truth. These thugs with a badge had no right to beleaguer this innocent, unarmed man, who also happens to be a Marine. The individual badged thug MUST be citizen arrested.
http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2011/10/marine-veteran-whose-skull-was-fractured-in-oakland-protests-was-peacefully-standing-when-attacked-by-police.html
California cops’ motto: “We’ll Treat You Like A King”
It will be the “trolls” on these site that start turning the sites in, only to cause problems.
Daisy’s comment is a good example above. She made a simple statement and asked a simple question yet already has a negative strike against her.
That’s just my fan club, AZ. It’s sorta like an entourage, except they want to follow me around to annoy me instead of following me around to bask in my glory. 😉
Your comment does bring to mind another possible troll strategy. They could easily post things as commments that they KNOW are copyright infringements, just to attempt to shut down websites.
Back under your bridge, trolls!
Yep–the same way they have infiltrated the OWS movement??
Daisy, you should be happy. You have obviously found the correct buttons.
I’m sure that big sis (who certainly fits the “troll” description in more ways than one) is coming to sites like these personally every single day.
It really pisses them off that we know what they are doing. For years they were able to be sneaking.
Well I say NO MORE!
*sneaky*
Take that back!! How dare you disparage innocent trolls!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hy9icLB81Zk
she’s GNOME i tell ya! a frickin GNOME! notice the 4o’clock shadow?the pale skin? hard knuckles? true gnome signs. take mr B.
meant to say take care ooops
yup, have had it happen to me plenty of times, especially when I hit home good and solid.
last time I called them out for a thumbs down.No one ever claimed it, or came to prove me wrong
No, they will be the ones who post copyrighted materials and THEN make complaints that it is there.
Yep
OccupyMARINES Have Watched Closely The Response From The OPD, The Mayor, The Governor, And All Others Involved In The Oakland Attack On Peaceful Demonstrators; We Have Observed These Pathetic Cowards Refuse Responsibility For Their Actions That May Very Well Alter The Course Of Our Brother’s Life. Additionally, Many Other Police Departments Nationwide Deploy Similar Riot Tactics Against Demonstrators Honoring The OWS 8, A Peaceful Declaration Of Assembly; We Will Organize Peacefully Against These Departments.
In Response To The Oakland Shooting Of Scott Olsen OccupyMARINES Request The Following:
The GOP Cowards Responsible For Influencing This Event Be Brought To Justice. Track Names And Photos Of Each And Email Them To Us
Identify The 300 OPD Riot Officers By Name, Photo, And Badge Number With Boots On The Ground Engaging In Illegal Excessive Force Acts Against Peaceful Americans For Prosecution.
Identify The Officer Responsible For Harming Scott Olsen By Name And Photo For Prosecution.
The Honorable Resignation Of Oakland Mayor Jean Quan And Acting Police Chief Howard Jordan.
A Public Apology From California Governor Edmund G. Brown Jr. For The Unlawful Injury Of Our Brother Scott Olsen.
We Fully Intend To Make An Example, Legally And Peacefully, Of The Corwards Associated With Harming An American Veteran. We Will Not Stop Until Our Aforementioned Demands Are Met In Their Entirety.
God Be With Scott Olsen, We Pray A Speedy Recovery For Him And His Mother.
Semper Fidelis Scott Olsen
Keep Pushing Forward America We Support You.
Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/marine-scott-olsen-is-to-undergo-brain-surgery-and-occupymarines-make-demands-2011-10#ixzz1c5P8UVgw
So a liberal Democrat mayor of Oakland orders the police to evict the Occupy movement, which has been supported by and is indirectly affiliated with the Democratic Party, and this is the fault of the GOP?
You aren’t representing the people. You are being played by those same politicians that put us in this mess. You, and everybody in the Occupy movement have been completely hoodwinked and you don’t even know it.
News flash, any time you are told about how the GOP or FOX news is the enemy, as opposed to generic terms like “congress” or “the media,” whoever is telling you that has an agenda, and it isn’t the same agenda they told you about. You are being played for fools, and you won’t even realize it until they are done using you.
Hey washington dc, either return to a Constitutional Republic or prepare to be drug out in the street to be tried by a “citizens” grand jury, then hung for treason against your oaths of office.
That’s exactly what it will take to get their attention!!!!
yeah, but what will it take to get the Peoples attention?
“What will it take to get the Peoples attention”!!!!!! WTH
The people are watching Snookie. As lonk as Snookie is allowed on TV, all is well.
Snookie is America’s Roman Circus!
Welfare and food stamps are the Roman Bread.
Distract the masses with frivolous, mindless, entertainment and free food. Meanwhile, those in authority work, in secret, to remove their freedoms, rights and liberties.
This regulation is evidence that the authorities realize not all the masses are distracted. Some of us are paying attention…and and according to them, we MUST be stopped.
Economic collapse. Sounds stupid, but, I pray for the RESET every night. Nothing will change until the pain becomes so great that the people cry out and demand this cesspool to be cleaned up.
We’re being “governed” by a corporation, plain and simple, that usurped our lawful, constitutional government. Until a good portion of the people realize this and fake economy falls apart, nothing will change. …or should I say “get better”. It will change. TPTB will change it as often as possible to keep use guessing but it won’t get better until we get our real government back.
I’d like to continue to click on approve, until my fingers bleed..but it only lets me aprove once
Would you like to know more?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=igBsdNDwKjA
great movie. This is one of my favorite scenes:
Agreed, although take a look at Director Paul Voerhoven’s film portfolio though: Robocop, Total Recall, Troopers, etc. Over-the-top violence and gore, gratuitous nudity and sexual content, and vintage dialogue like “They sucked his brains out” make a Michael Bay piece look like a modest, artsy foreign film lol.
Kinda neat how that knife stuck into that steel beam eh?
Must be that “new” russian steel Obingo just gave 500 mil. to
that was hilarious!! Mac
I’m doing my part to be an un-phucker.
Interesting read! Hey listen I dunno if anyone heard, but a video was posted a few weeks ago, about everyone doing a bank run on November 5th 2011. To close all bank accounts and open new ones at small banks and credit unions. Protesters hit two Pittsburgh banks yesterday to open accounts. The banks freaked out and closed down. Today ( 10-28-11) Protesters in NYC, are to run on 5 major banks! Do what you want with the info, just letting you all know.
Those Occupunks can’t pull a ‘run on the banks’ when they aren’t on their momma’s signature cards.
This will slip through like everything else, because no one in power is looking out for us. We on the other hand will not really fight it, since it hasn’t made us uncomfortable in our lives yet. I bet if they proposed a ban on xbox or twinkies, there would be hell to pay. Every day, one more freedom removed and one more step to a new world order. Get up, wake up, and if not for yourselves, save this country and our freedom, for your kids and Grandkids. Soon it will get to the point where you will be a threat to the government, if you even question their motives and operations, on line or on your cell phone, or even one to one. Sounds like history is repeating itself, only this time in America, land of the silenced and scared.
They would just slap a tax on those activities first before they outright banned them. “Gotta tax those Twinkies and video games, contributes to obesity which is a drain on government healthcare”.
But I thought US.gov cared about us and wants us to be safe and happy with lots of freedoms and liberty. Isn’t that why they are fighting wars with toothless goat herders all over the world? Isn’t that why they have TSA, DEA, ATFE, DHS, FDA protecting us all from harmful plants, raw milk and cheese, and bombs hidden in babies diapers day and night? I thought Bush and Obama loved me and wanted me to be able to sleep safely at night. [/sarcasm] if anyone couldn’t tell
Seriously, these internet kill switches, road check points, media police scanners being taken away, DHS’s spy on your neighbor that might use cash, video’s seem to be ramping up very quickly over the last few years. It’s really making me nervous what they must be getting ready for. Everyone can read the writing on the wall with the world wide economic crisis looming and those in .gov don’t want to give up their power.
I love the one about using cash. Ironic how using FRNs arouses suspicion.
Cash is already illegal for certain transactions in Louisiana.
They may be suffering from poor dental practice, but them goatherders can fight. If you get a chance, pick up Marcus Lutttrell’s book “Lone Survivor”. A sad but good account.
Or try Rudyard Kipling’s “Arithmetic on the Frontier”. Well motivated goatherders fighting with outdated technology have been handing modern armies their asses for hundreds of years.
Yeah, like the uneducated Afgan goat herders that handed us 12 asses a few days ago.
Don’t worry, it will never be too late. Even if they try and take our guns, which they won’t (Even Yamamoto wasn’t that stupid…) they get slaughtered. Not because of technology but because of motivation.
Along with the request/demand to remove the youtube videos, Google reported that government requests for ‘user data information’ was up by about 30% from last year.
Great.
So now they are gonna take away my alternative media and substitute it with more porn
And holsom multicultural gender neutral gay porn because I guess that’s what America,
Wants.
I’m just too stupid to know it, so thank Mother Earth, for looking out for my dumb ass.
What ever happened to Caveat Emptor? I can’t afford anymore Government protection. I wonder how many more government employee’s come with this bill?
Oh wait a minute; we can apply for these jobs and troll the internet all day. I can see it now, we will have government employees viewing porn all day.
Then they will go out on disability with almost full pay and never work again because they claim sexual dysfunction.
Then they will need more regulations to protect the employees. Is government a racket or what?
Disability for sexual dysfunction? Are these government employees making government porn? ROFLAO!!!!!
Its true!
Twitter and internet access has already been turned off at some protests, just as they did in Egypt and elsewhere. Eventually, the internet will be taken down or at least severely interrupted. You can’t count on it. An open and free internet is the single biggest threat to those who control things. I’m sure they’re running drills as we speak on how to shut it down when things get too hot.
Hey Mac,
This website has to be on the top of the list, don’t you think?
I guess after all my favorite websites are gone…there’s still ESPN!
If there is a flagging system in the Fusion centers that monitor all this stuff, then i would say we’ve probably been red-flagged for a while 🙂
Yeah, and there’s a fusion center 6.5 miles from my place. I feel all warm & fuzzy knowing they are there to protect me.
Well, actually I fell all warm & fuzzy from hanging with Jack… 😉
But I know the feds are there for me when I need em. Help with the taxes maybe….?
You should post their physical address. Thats what we should all do, and post the addresses of all who are a part of the problem. That way when the revolution starts we will know where to go.
Cyber monitoring is conducted from Chantilly Virginia.
Mac, you should provide us with your ip address, in case your site every gets shut down or “tampered with”.
And if you are worried about that being stolen, email us a second “private” one.
google proxy servers and read up, additionally you can just ping a website name to get the IP of it.
I pinged it one time and came up with…
50.21.180.120
Mac, what about an email list to get this as a newsletter as an emergency backup as well? I have been hoping you would do a “sign up” with a log in and password because I would like to put my email address out there to connect with other preppers in my area, but don’t want to put it out there for trolls to see. If we had to sign up and you recognized a troll, you could delete them and keep it serious for those of us who take it serious.
MLG, I do have the application for the newsletter ready to go and will put up an easy to see signup form shortly… for now, there is a signup button in the right sidebar under The Ready Store advertisement.. The newsletter is not yet being actively sent… Great idea on that as a backup and that’s what it will be used for in the event of site shut-down or an internet kill switch moment 🙂
Insofar as signups go, the new forum application will have User account functions and i think in one way or another that may work site-wide.. I’ll look more into that so that if you are logged in to the forum you are also logged in site wide and as such, will be able to use additional features, faster comment approvals, etc….
where are all the retired marines, who pledged to protect the Constitution (forever!)? How far will we let the “Authorities” drag us towards Fascism before we stop it. Cmon Leathernecks wake up and pay attention, law enforcement is gunning down our brothers. Semper Fi anyone?
Small hijack here, just having a bit of panic. Had a situation yesterday where I had just left for work and husband was on his way home from work. In the two hours of crossover, our son stays home. (He’s 16) Someone tried to get in the front door and back door. He did good, got the phone, his bat and locked himself in the bathroom and called the police. Now, the guy didn’t get in, the cops think he was just trolling for good opportunities. Since I feel if he really wanted in,he would have gotten in, I tend to agree. The attack cats turned out to be a useless invenstment. (lol) My panic is actually due to what was revealed. The cops looked around the house, just in case, and all back room preps revealed. The 911 operator asked about weapons, and son was honest in that there were some in the house but he was not privy to where they were locked away. Water, food, weapons, everthing was exposed and I feel more vulnerable than ever. I spoke with the officer on the phone and he was very nice, reassured me they checked teh house and were only two minutes away if my son needed them before hubby got home. It’s not that I don’t trust these officers, I don’t trust anyone. Very uneasy feeling today. Angry that I have to wear my knife in my own home, since trouble has come, literally, to my front door. Sorry guys, just needed to vent abit. Sorry Mac to hijack.
Our comment threads are totally open to any relevant info to the general theme of the site… this definitely falls in line with that.
Wow, this is quite a development… There is really nothing you can do at this point with respect to OpSec… Hopefully the cop(s) saw your preps and didn’t think much of them (which i guess i would kind of doubt is the case, because most homes they look into probably don’t have a room stuffed full of MRe’s, Freeze Dried goods, and 200 rolls of TP 🙂 )…. If you are really concerned about the OpSec issue, consider storing some of your preps off-site somewhere — close family member or perhaps a storage unit with A/C.. That’s really the only thing I can think of…
I guess at this point your cover may be blown on some level… I am not trying to alarm you in any way, just throwing out some possible solutions… If someone who sees your preps knows anything about prepping, they may also have an idea of the types of things (of value) that you maybe holding/storing.. which means you may want to consider some methods to diversify locations for those expensive/important items… I wouldn’t move everything though, but splitting off some of the key items may be of benefit…just in case… and it may reduce your stress/anxiety a little.
Tell them you hold items for your church or whatever, to dispense for charity.
Explain yourself to no one. Tell “them” nothing.
I’m not down with lying, regarding Charlie’s suggestion, but if you are comfortable with it you could.
I think that GC is in the right here – you don’t owe anybody an explanation. Further, you might bring MORE attention to yourself by trying to explain things away. I wouldn’t be surprised if the cops haven’t forgotten all about it.
The main thing I would worry about is that come SHTF time something will prompt their memory of your stockpile. You might consider relocating some of your stuff to another location.
false walls
thats all im saying
that and the ability to hide things in plain sight,
like for instance a bar of silver or gold painted green and used as a door stop.
an empty box of cereal filled with butane lighters
etc… you get the picture
I’m sure these cops see the most ridiculous and hideous stuff every single day. They’ll totally forget about your preps. If not, maybe you’ll have a friend to help you if the shtf.
Put that boy in MMA. Get some muscle on him and let someone teach him not to be afraid……He should have opened the door with bat in hand and scared them off…..(can you tell I have 2 boys!!!)
time for you to go to the pound and get your son a nice new friend… golden retreivers are very good with kids and cats and will protect children. just a thought. if you do get a dog… keep him seperated from cats for a few days… so they can adjust then slowly introduce the dog to em’ on lease… correct any aggressive nature with hard jerk on lease and a firm No, easy… command!
it’ll work out fine…
Be aware–do people actually come to homes to display products just for your opinions?
Last week a survey at night..then a follow-up next morning..questions..are you married, do you work, where does your husband work–full time or part time…when can we deliver the award you selected for answering questions…
Mail it…no, we have to deliver it to show you the product…no thanks….silence…then, ma’am, we can come to your house to show>>>>you’re not coming to my house…more silence..we just want your opinion>>>>YOU’RE NOT COMING TO MY HOUSE!!!!
well, have a nice day ma’am.
They were coming to case my house for burglary or worse???
I had something similar happen many many years ago (circa early seventies). A woman comes to the door asking if she could talk to my then wife and I about selling us magazine subscriptions, as she was “working her way through college”. After she had entered our apartment, sitting on the couch, I notice she’s not carrying a purse and has no order forms or samples. Alarm bells start going off in my head. I got her to leave rather quickly, then called the police. They found her canvassing other homes and apartments in the neighborhood with her “boyfriend” (term used by the policeman who followed up with us) who was a convicted burglar. The police escorted them to the city limits and told them if they found them in the city limits again, they would be arrested on sight.
Another incident happened where I now live about 15 years ago. I’m in the house reading and I hear the downstairs door rattle. Slider to the elevated deck was open. I quietly go out onto the deck and observe this man testing the security of my door. Triple dead bolts were engaged. I ask him what he thinks he’s doing which startled the hell out him. He reply’s “I’m selling magazines working my way through college”. I observe no clipboard with order forms and no samples or briefcase. He wasn’t carrying anything. I asked him to wait a minute and went back inside and called the police. I went back onto the deck to keep an eye on him, but he’d disappeared. Police never found him. I’ve never (knock wood) had a break-in, but it may just be luck.
I’ve determined through reading posts here and on other sites that my current home is not defensible without major retrofit, not to mention that I’d probably be going it alone. I get the three headed stare from the neighbors when I broach SHTF. Luckily I have a BO location to go to with extended family members who are awake and preparing. Bad news is its two hundred miles. May have to shank mule it, if I don’t leave quick enough.
I have a friend that I once trusted and thought would be an asset in a SHTF scenario. My wife and I allowed him and his wife to live with us for just over three months when they moved to the area. My friend allowed a total stranger (happened to be a miscreant kid in the neighborhood who has been previously incarcerated) to help him move an item into our basement without clearing it with me first. He thought it was great that he had help ( I was unavailable), while I knew it was a terrible security blunder. That and some other things he did less harmful caused me to scratch him off of my inner circle of trusted ones. He’s a prepper too who seemed to talk a good talk, but now in my opinion because of my experience with him he is more full of hot air than anything. Better to learn that sooner rather than later. You would have thought he’d have had more sense. Sometimes you just never know until it is to late. I kept my mouth shut about this incident (except to discuss it with my wife) since the harm was already done, but when he moved out I made it clear that he was not to allow any strangers into my house to assist. Oh well, live and learn.
Bear spray. There’s much more of it than the puny human canisters, and very high scoville unit rating. There is a wide dispersion pattern, and much great distance for the spray. Finally, it is non-fatal, so one is less hesitant to use it.
I have no idea why everyone doesn’t get a can. Of course, I would only ever use it for what I suspected were “bears,” as I wouldn’t want to use it in a manner inconsistent with it’s labelling!
They had no business going through the house when no unauthorized entry was made. Maybe check on this and instruct your son to tell them “No thanks, everything is fine. Thank you and have a good day”.
MLG:
Is it time for your son to know where the guns are? And how to use them? Just asking…
I’ve got three little ones and when I think they’re ready, they’re going to the range.
Take care,
Mal
PS Kinda agree with the others about the preps. You don’t owe anyone an explanation and those cops will forget soon enough what they saw. Keep low.
MLG, forget about it! Those officers probably never even took notice of anything.
I don’t know how old your son is, but, when mine was 10 I show him where the shotgun was, made sure he knew how to operate it. Same the the Mini14. I realize we’re rural but I’ve instructed everyone to NEVER call 911 and NEVER let police officers into the house unless they have a gun pointed at you and hand you a warrant. NEVER NEVER EVER!
But, again, as some above have said, don’t explain yourself, don’t say anything. Hopefully they were good, trustworthy officers that have taken their oath seriously and don’t see things the way some do.
I’m betting you’re alright there but, you’re correct, you have been exposed. Hopefully that exposure has been to someone that it won’t matter.
The Fascist Threat
“If fascism is invisible to us, it is truly the silent killer. It fastens a huge, violent, lumbering State on the free market that drains its capital and productivity like a deadly parasite on a host. This is why the fascist State has been called The Vampire Economy. It sucks the economic life out of a nation and brings about a slow death of a once thriving economy.”
(lewrockwell.com)
It had to happen eventually. Just let us know where to send the bail to Mac. I’d love to end that sentence with a LOL, but this just ain’t funny. Clay
Maybe they’ll let have one email instead of one phone call, Clay! 😉
*let MAC have one email* – I wish I had a darned “edit” button!
Interesting thought! Clay
The free and unfettered exchange of information is scary to those in power, ANY position of power.
Doctors hate educated patients because the patient questions the doctor.
TPTB hate the internet because there is NO CONTROL over who is getting what information on any given topic -it is up to the INDIVIDUAL TO DECIDE WHAT IS RELEVANT!!!
It’s hard to enforce a media blackout on an event when INDIVIDUALS report what is going on to others -a power the internet provides to the people.
TPTB have tried to discredit and control internet reporting on many events (see Fukoshima and right here at home the nuclear power plant business during the flooding this spring and summer) to no avail. Of course they are going to try to pass some vaguely worded trash that gives them the power to shut down something that empowers people. Piracy my Uncle Tesla…
It’s aimed at piracy. I don’t see it as a threat to free speech. Obama might use the internet kill switch before he goes after websites that are unfriendly to him and his policies.
Respectfully, Farmcat, you are being naive if you think that the stated purpose is the REAL purpose of this legislation.
They like to hide this evil stuff in something innocuous – sorta like a rattlesnake in a Cracker Jack box.
Keep singing “God save the Queen”.
Oh goodie! More from my “entourage” of thumbs-downers. 🙂
Farm Cat:
How much legislation has congress passed over the years that was aimed at “A” and, over time, ended up aimed at “A-Z”?
Ponder this on the tree of woe.
Mal
the government is stupid, they act like this would cause all people aware n realise that our America is really having a big big serious uncure selfmade crisis.
So, The Stop Online Piracy Act –
Is this HR 3261? Also known as the E-PARASITE Act? or is it a different bill that we need to start talking to our representatives about?
KHM,
I agree and was going to enter a similar post. This issue needs to be engaged, with our representatives, by the people on this site and anyone/everyone that they can muster or convince of the need to defeat this bill.
I will be emailing my rep tonight. Congress will never know how people feel about this bill unless you tell them. They are easily reached through on-line Web based email forms at the House, Senate and White House web sites. I write my reps several times a week. You can tell them in very plain, even nasty language, how you feel. You just can’t threaten them. Threatening Congressmen, Senators and of coarse the President is against the law and will earn the threatener a visit from people that you don’t want to engage with, not to mention possible arrest and jail if convicted.
The contact forms are here: http://www.whitehouse.gov/contact; find your Rep here http://www.house.gov/representatives/, then go to his/her house web page where you should find a Contact link. You can also email all of the House and Senate leadership positions using their Contact link. Senators here: http://www.senate.gov/general/contact_information/senators_cfm.cfm, you can also Google them by name, if you know who they are. ;^)
I usually write what I have to say on Word Pad then copy and paste after filling out the Web Mail form. Be sure to reference the bill with its number if you can, which can be sourced, although not easily, through the main House and Senate web pages.
In this particular case the House bill number is posted above.
I’m not saying that a writing campaign will bring about defeat because all of the representatives vote pretty much the way their party tells them to, as I’m sure you all know. What I am saying is that if you don’t object in some way shape or manner, how can you expect to influence their opinion.
P.S. I never use my real email addresses, which are required by the Web mail forms. Spoof something like [email protected].
It is an all or nothing thing. If they shut down one web site, 10 more will spring up just like it.
Unless it it totally taken down, which will make the people do more than scream and TPTB know it, pirates and freedom lovers will find a way to communicate through it.
It will only make the online communities get tighter.
I can see your point. China has warehouse sized facilities to try to block content on their internet services and the people there seem to have no problem getting to the information they are seeking. Where there is a will there is a way!
This doesn’t take away from the fact that the TPTB are still making an effort to block the free exchange of information. I am of the opinion this is essentially a violation of the right of speech and press, but hey, I’m just another fed up american, what do I know about my right (sarcasm).
I think trying to shut down the internet would be met with the same feelings as trying to take our guns.
maybe even worse, theres way more people addicted to the internet , than are guns
I also feel that with the technology and these egg headed kids these days, another type of web service would be quick to follow, underground and with out the governments ability to control it
I agree, I am sure only a few of us internet people have guns. Can you imagine the teens of this country without facebook?
Never under estimate the bad guys. 100 million died at the hands of their own communist governments in the 20th century. On a lighter note, in the movie Zorro the Gay Blade, it was legal to say anything you wanted, but it was illegal for anyone to listen. I hope Obama doesn’t visit this website.
Do they gave Wifi on the golf course?
Wow this is quite a development. I think ***** ******** *** **** ** * ***** ** ******* *** ******* * **. *** * *** ***** ***** ** ***** * **** ** * ***** ****** *** * * *****! [Edited for your protection by Wonderful Government]
So where is Hypocrite Hilliary talking about how the New Media brought freedom to the Middle East?
Oh, I’m so sorry! This would attack HER and her nanny state fascists, so I guess it’s ok.
Note to bureaucrats: The comment above is not intended to diagnose any ailment or propose any treatment, and has not been evaluated by the FDA. And any bureaucrats reading this – how could you ever face your greatest generation grandparents who fought WWII, and then you do THIS to them???? It’s like Hitler won the war – only you did it **willingly**
Unfortunately FDR was one of the biggest progressives in our history. Agree that WWII was the Greatest Generation, and I will always be thankful that they stopped the Nazi’s and the Japanese Empire, but they were misled into allowing socialism to deepen its roots into our country. The Real Deal was the biggest surge towards destroying our Republic by implementing government dependent jobs, agencies, and policies. Our grandparents and great grandparents (for the most part) did not recognize the Real Deal for the socialist evil that is was!
You mean FDR’s New Deal. He still has the record for number of Executive Orders, over a thousand, given a lot of oppposition from Congress and the Supreme Court.
LOL…I did NOT notice I typed Real instead of New.
Too funny! Well, I am a product of the public school system. 😉
Did you see her laughing about Quadaffy being killed? Basically saying “This is what happens if you cross us”?
Now, who else doesn’t want to take US dollars for oil?
For those of you interested, Bill Rounds, author of How to Vanish, has a link on how to create an anonymous web site at http://www.howtovanish.com/2011/10/create-an-anonymous-website/ I haven’t had time to read his article, but did store the link for the day I get some time to create my own website.
That’s a great link, JR – I’m glad it’s the weekend so I have some extra time to check out that website – very cool!
Advice? Prepare your family for war. Train your kids how to fight back, survive and win. Educate youselves and start planning for civil war now, this is going to be a long, brutal decade. The USSA govt is already making their move, prepare.
I am getting the distinct gut-instinct feeling (DGIF), that something BIG is on the way way too soon for me. There is just too much of a full-court press going on this Fall:
-taking over the north African nations
-this internet deal
-TSA checkpoint on highways (ON HIGHWAYS!)
-the financial mess here and in the EU
-rumor of global war coming
You can add your own to the list. I think the next False Flag is coming as an excuse to shut the whole U.S. borders down and institute TSA checkpoints everywhere. They don’t want us to leave. What would they do without us serfs to serve them? fight bogus wars for them? buy their crap?
It’s he end of the internet as we know it!!
http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20111027/00083116531/e-parasites-bill-end-internet-as-we-know-it.shtml
If only the idiots who claim to be protecting us from ourselves would realise, there’s always a way around the regulations. Lasy year my employer began to phase in the new electronic logs for drivers. Now, all our new trucks have them, and just as I’d feared, my old rig got taken out of the fleet for trade-in, and my new one has the e-log system. Told my dispatcher I’d find a way around the parts of the system I didn’t like. He just kinda smiled.
Now, every time the truck stops, I’m supposed to send a message over the qualcom telling them why. They already get lots of automated information from the qcom, stuff like truck location, speed it’s been traveling etc. So the first few days I ignored it. I do send the messages for when I pick up and deliver the freight. Then the safety department called and said I HAD to start sending the messages.
So I began to send them about 50 to 60 messages every day. Stuff like
‘I’m stopping to take a piss’
‘I’m stopping to patronize a truck stop whore’ (Actually I don’t, but I have a reputation to uphold)
‘I’m stopping to hassle a panhandler’
‘Stopping to count my wheels, see if I still have 18 of them’
‘Stopping to contemplate my navel’
‘Stopping to apply for a new job’
“Stopping to sell some of the freight and buy drugs’
‘Stopping to send you this massage that says I’m stopping’
Then I began to send quotes from Shakespear, Mark Twain, Seinfeld and the other great philosophers. Plus a few knock-knock jokes. And a few hundred other nonsense massages.
After 5 days and 277 messages, my dispatcher called me. He said, and I quote “Your name came up at our staff meeting today. Safety dept was really mad at you. Then the company president looked over all the crazy stuff you been sending. First, he laughed. Then he got a little angry. Then he looked at your service record. (I’ve been here 8 yrs with never a late load, no accidents, no tickets) Then he said, ‘just let him drive the truck’ and he laughed again.”
As of today, I’m no longer required to check in with my babysitters!
Hammer down! Put it in the big gear and let’s roll. If I hurry I can get to Sacramento in time for rush hour traffic!
Priceless..Lmfao
God bless you Okie, is there a black SUV w tinted windows in front & behind w a GPS antenna? Sounds to me you won! Kenworth on… Ride’em cowboy, raw hide.
I drove a bit before I got into the crane field. And that has always been outside, cutomer based: Get in truck, drive to Wyoming, fix crane, drive back, get on plane fly to Kentucky, teach class, fly home, etc. If I had to have a job where someone was “supervising” me I’d have gone insane.
You handled the problem well. It is obvious that you are far more intelligent than the average Joe and I believe you do your job for a similar reason that I did mine for 30+ years.
Freedom & a paycheck.
SmokinOkie, awesome American post.
That is some nice Opting Out.
‘Stopping to send you this massage that says I’m stopping’
As usual, it was ‘coffee through the nose’ moment ~ esp this one. I really should anticipate this event when I see your handle. I would seriously need to see my Dr. for anti-d meds if you ever stop providing relief… in which case I might have to limit myself to only 1 SHTF article and 10 comments per day.
Hammer down carefully out there, Okie
~..~
55.4 messages per day over a 5 day period. There’s always some suits that think they are a lot smarter. I like the Shakespear, Mark Twain, Seinfeld thing.
You can only get away with that if you are doing a good job. Fortunatly for you, you have a good record. Unfortunatly for every one of you there are a bunch of screwups that have caused the need for the babysitting in the first place. If the focus would be on where it is needed only, and competence left alone, it wouldn’t be so bad. But then some slacker would claim they were being abused because they were being singled out so they have to watch everyone all the time. How about firing the troublemakers and keep hiring people like you that can and want to do a good job right?
Thats a great idea you had, maybe if we turn in a couple hundred thousand reports on sites they like we can slow the process down. Flood them with false reports on liberal sites and keep em busy.
LOL ! I love it. I did the Driving Thing for a while years ago & really enjoyed it. Now when I drive it is for me….so I am fortunite that I don’t have to report to anyone than the Mrs.. Had an Uncle who drove flatbed steel out of Ohio for 30 years. Just retired a year or so back. The electronic surveilence was really making him crazy….which is why I think that he retired early.
Keep on Truckin !
Montgomery County Texas
Does anyone know why the website, http://www.eutimes.net, is not available? The message is the sever can not find it.
Not sure..I am getting an error too…. You can also try http://whatdoesitmean.com/ which is sorcha faal’s web site…that’s the site from which eu times pulls a lot of it’s info…I think they are related somehow, but eu times does carry a host of other stories from other sites as well.
http://whatdoesitmean.com is another good one, thanks.
Dollar Decline Intensifies…
(on Drudge Report)
The congressman behind this bill is Zionist, Israel-firster, Howard Berman. Howard and his ilk are looking for backdoor ways to censor internet content critical of Israel, and Zionists in general. People (those not brainwashed by incessant propaganda) are starting to wake up and see what group always seem to be behind mideast wars, economic disasters, multculturism, open borders, bank and corporate bailouts, Palestinian & Christian genocide, the prohibition of Christian icons (crosses) in public , etc,etc,etc.
These unsavory characters are starting to worry that their nefarious machinations will soon reveal their true agenda (New World Order & destruction of Christianity). They know that it’s crucial they inhibit the free circulation of this information, therefore the constant sponsorship of bills like HR 3261, the PROTECT IP Act, among others. To the twisted zionist mind, any criticism of Israel or Jews is tantamount to anti-semitism. That’s why they are also trying to pass laws requiring prison time for revisionists and anyone who questions the holocaust ( they have these laws in Germany & Canada & we are next ). Our freedoms are hanging in the balance.
Baruch HaShem Adonai……
Not a real hi jack but this thread is active and I would like opinions.
http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/ItemListing.aspx?mfgid=81&catid=403
What do you all think about having laser sights on a few of your pistols? Seems like a good idea to me. You can watch the entire area of threat and see you red dot on the bad guys nose.
My view is… Technology has it’s advantages…. Definitely get extra batteries and try to standardize if possible… An oversight we had with lasers was that we bought holsters first, and a couple guns didnt fit once we mounted the lasers…just thought I’d throw that out there…
I have been looking into a Flir thermal handheld camera as a supplement to perimeter defense myself… Night vision is great, but thermal seems to be a solid investment idea… It’s expensive to be sure, but a huge advantage during day or night, especially if you have brush/tree cover around your property… Those Flir cameras say they have a range of 350 yards… Not sure about that, but I would be happy with 150 – 200 yards…
I bought a laser sight for my Hi-Point 995 carbine. Adjusted it to be on target. Its amazing. It takes some practice, but, now I see why people use them. …and in low light, wow, nothing like it. I don’t know if I’d depend on it. I just use it like I do any other high technology. Use it as an advantage when you can but be practiced up on using the guns without it too.
…I probably wouldn’t have missed the possum that scared the crap out of me last night had I had a laser pointer on my S&W Mod. 59. The way it was, he just got a spray of driveway gravel.
OFF TOPIC: Anyone seen this yet????
150 signatures faked….your president; election 2008
http://video.foxnews.com/v/1224991301001/indiana-democrat-resigns-amid-voter-fraud-scandal
So basically if I were a jack booted government crook I could anonymously post an exerpt from JWR’s “Survivors” on this comments reel and then one minute later shut down your entire site…
Of course, like the rest of the many thousands of laws on the books it will not be enforced widely. As with the Lacey act “anti wood laws” it will be used to surgically remove dissenters and make examples of them.
Mac
As always, a great post..
Notice how the msm was headlining double dip/euro collapse/layoffs/rising food prices/war looming Iran,Syria etc.. just up to a few days ago..
Bang..market rises 300 points and ..”recession fears end”
No mention of all the prior..off the table.
Europe is saved..
We are all saved,.
Happy days are here again!
We’re definitely not in Kansas anymore!
possee
Very interesting indeed…
In my opinion…. It’s just a stay of execution…
Mac..
Another interesting string of coincidences..
EAS nationwide 3 minute alert 11/9
YU 55 passes earth at closest au..11/9
Exercise Pacific Wave(PacWave11) commences (tsunami drill- entire Pacific rim nations)..11/9
http://www.pacwave,info
any thoughts?
possee
All I can say is you never know…. We all know the history of the ‘drills’ that were happening in NYC and London when they were hit by attacks…. There are times when I operate at a normal preparedness level hum, and then there are times when the events of the day spike those levels…. These coming exercises, considering there are several, will likely have me running at a higher rate of awareness than usual.
In the military we had what is called “stand to” just before dawn and again just before, during and after dusk. Everyone had to be awake and alert and armed. Probable times for an attack. Begin “stand to” just before 11/9, and continue until a little after 11/9. If nothing happens, you just got some practice.
Reward Offered for the Identity of the Police Officer Who Shot Marine Vet Scott Olsen
http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2011/10/reward-offered-for-the-identity-of-the-police-officer-who-shot-marine-vet-scott-olsen.html
Say this officer is identified. Then what? The police get to run their own investigation? Decide wether or not to file charges? Pick the prosecutor and the judge?? Thus the defendant, the prosecutor and the judge all work for government. This is justice?? How is it better than a Bananna Republic?
A basic precept of common law is that a person ought not to be able to decide his own case. Simple and understandable, yes? So the state, as a corporate person, should be limited to one party at any trial that attempts to reach an honest decision. It follows that if the defendant is a state employee, the prosecutor and the judge should be chosen from civil society.
? @ Mac
I agree with your comment about a certain levels of preparedness, daily we have conversations the wife and I do and then sometimes when I am at work she’ll actually pull out the BOB’s and inventory and assess, I use going to the ranch (BOL) as a exercise too or vacation. The problem is that are you seeing these spikes rise in your daily/weekly routine? Both the wife and I see it as a trend more so then ever, could it be that the tipping point is almost here? And would you say either or both as the catalyst for TSHTF through OWS and the troop withdrawal? Just asking?
Another problem I see with the “Web Police”….is that it will allow the lefty’s who post crap on various sites to attack conservative sites & post content that is in violation of “the law” & then you get shut down with no easy recourse. Sounds to me like another attempt at the fairness doctrine. All they want to do is shut things down, so that there is only the Gubberment Story. We all need to contact our representatives & tell them that this nonsense needs to be stripped from the bill. I am all for protecting anyone’s property……but shutting down free speech is a BFP .
Montgomery County Texas
Increasing highly visible government interference with the web will be the last straw. The public loves its web and alternative news, so I think you’ll finally see a more shocking push-back (than OWS). What is it that TJ said – “The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants. It is its natural manure.”