Government Agency: If 9 Substations Are Destroyed, The Power Grid Could Be Down For 18 Months

by | Mar 19, 2014 | Headline News | 286 comments

Do you LOVE America?


    Editor’s Note: Michael Snyder of The Economic Collapse Blog paints a scary picture of the current state of our national power grid. We recently saw what investigators say is a sophisticated attack on the California power grid whereby individuals first cut communications lines and then used sniper fire to target the massive transformers responsible for switching electricity to residents. Members of the Navy SEALs say this attack was carried in the same way they would have executed it. Officials called it the most significant incident of domestic terrorism on the power grid in America’s history. Now consider what might happen should such an attack be coordinated around key grid access points. It wouldn’t take much to bring our country to its knees as noted in the report below. If such an attack were to actually happen the repercussions would be felt from coast to coast as people quickly run out of food and essential services become non existent. According to a recent study, within one year some 90% of Americans would die as a result. 

    North-American-Power-Grid-300x300What would you do if the Internet or the power grid went down for over a year?  Our key infrastructure, including the Internet and the power grid, is far more vulnerable than most people would dare to imagine.  These days, most people simply take for granted that the lights will always be on and that the Internet will always function properly.  But what if all that changed someday in the blink of an eye?  According to the Federal Energy Regulatory Commission’s latest report, all it would take to plunge the entire nation into darkness for more than a year would be to knock out a transformer manufacturer and just 9 of our 55,000 electrical substations on a really hot summer day.  The reality of the matter is that our power grid is in desperate need of updating, and there is very little or no physical security at most of these substations.  If terrorists, or saboteurs, or special operations forces wanted to take down our power grid, it would not be very difficult.  And as you will read about later in this article, the Internet is extremely vulnerable as well.

    When I read the following statement from the Federal Energy Regulatory Commission’s latest report, I was absolutely floored…

    “Destroy nine interconnection substations and a transformer manufacturer and the entire United States grid would be down for at least 18 months, probably longer.”


    What would you do without power for 18 months?

    FERC studied what it would take to collapse the entire electrical grid from coast to coast.  What they found was quite unsettling

    In its modeling, FERC studied what would happen if various combinations of substations were crippled in the three electrical systems that serve the contiguous U.S. The agency concluded the systems could go darkif as few as nine locations were knocked out: four in the East, three in the West and two in Texas, people with knowledge of the analysis said.

    The actual number of locations that would have to be knocked out to spawn a massive blackout would vary depending on available generation resources, energy demand, which is highest on hot days, and other factors, experts said. Because it is difficult to build new transmission routes, existing big substations are becoming more crucial to handling electricity.

    So what would life look like without any power for a long period of time?  The following list comes from one of my previous articles

    -There would be no heat for your home.

    -Water would no longer be pumped into most homes.

    -Your computer would not work.

    -There would be no Internet.

    -Your phones would not work.

    -There would be no television.

    -There would be no radio.

    -ATM machines would be shut down.

    -There would be no banking.

    -Your debit cards and credit cards would not work.

    -Without electricity, gas stations would not be functioning.

    -Most people would be unable to do their jobs without electricity and employment would collapse.

    -Commerce would be brought to a standstill.

    -Hospitals would not be able to function.

    -You would quickly start running out of medicine.

    -All refrigeration would shut down and frozen foods in our homes and supermarkets would start to go bad.

    If you want to get an idea of how quickly society would descend into chaos, just watch the documentary “American Blackout” some time.  It will chill you to your bones.

    The truth is that we live in an unprecedented time.  We have become extremely dependent on technology, and that technology could be stripped away from us in an instant.

    Right now, our power grid is exceedingly vulnerable, and all the experts know this, but very little is being done to actually protect it

    “The power grid, built over many decades in a benign environment, now faces a range of threats it was never designed to survive,” said Paul Stockton, a former assistant secretary of defense and president of risk-assessment firm Cloud Peak Analytics. “That’s got to be the focus going forward.”

    If a group of agents working for a foreign government or a terrorist organization wanted to bring us to our knees, they could do it.

    In fact, there have actually been recent attacks on some of our power stations.  Here is just one example

    The Wall Street Journal’s Rebecca Smith reports that a former Federal Energy Regulatory Commission chairman is acknowledging for the first time that a group of snipers shot up a Silicon Valley substation for 19 minutes last year, knocking out 17 transformers before slipping away into the night.

    The attack was “the most significant incident of domestic terrorism involving the grid that has ever occurred” in the U.S., Jon Wellinghoff, who was chairman of the Federal Energy Regulatory Commission at the time, told Smith.

    Have you heard about that attack before now?

    Most Americans have not.

    But it should have been big news.

    At the scene, authorities found “more than 100 fingerprint-free shell casings“, and little piles of rocks “that appeared to have been left by an advance scout to tell the attackers where to get the best shots.”

    So what happens someday when the bad guys decide to conduct a coordinated attack against our power grid with heavy weapons?

    It could happen.

    In addition, as I mentioned at the top of this article, the Internet is extremely vulnerable as well.

    For example, did you know that authorities are so freaked out about the security of the Internet that they have given “the keys to the Internet” to a very small group of individuals that meet four times per year?

    It’s true.  The following is from a recent story posted by the Guardian

    The keyholders have been meeting four times a year, twice on the east coast of the US and twice here on the west, since 2010. Gaining access to their inner sanctum isn’t easy, but last month I was invited along to watch the ceremony and meet some of the keyholders – a select group of security experts from around the world. All have long backgrounds in internet security and work for various international institutions. They were chosen for their geographical spread as well as their experience – no one country is allowed to have too many keyholders. They travel to the ceremony at their own, or their employer’s, expense.

    What these men and women control is the system at the heart of the web: the domain name system, or DNS. This is the internet’s version of a telephone directory – a series of registers linking web addresses to a series of numbers, called IP addresses. Without these addresses, you would need to know a long sequence of numbers for every site you wanted to visit. To get to the Guardian, for instance, you’d have to enter “” instead

    If the system that controls those IP addresses gets hijacked or damaged, we would definitely need someone to press the “reset button” on the Internet.

    Sadly, the hackers always seem to be several steps ahead of the authorities.  In fact, according to one recent report, breaches of U.S. government computer networks go undetected 40 percent of the time

    A new report by Sen. Tom Coburn (R., Okla.) detailswidespread cybersecurity breaches in the federal government, despite billions in spending to secure the nation’s most sensitive information.

    The report, released on Tuesday, found thatapproximately 40 percent of breaches go undetected, and highlighted “serious vulnerabilities in the government’s efforts to protect its own civilian computers and networks.”

    “In the past few years, we have seen significant breaches in cybersecurity which could affect critical U.S. infrastructure,” the report said. “Data on the nation’s weakest dams, including those which could kill Americans if they failed, were stolen by a malicious intruder. Nuclear plants’ confidential cybersecurity plans have been left unprotected. Blueprints for the technology undergirding the New York Stock Exchange were exposed to hackers.”


    And things are not much better when it comes to cybersecurity in the private sector either.  According to Symantec, there was a 42 percentincrease in cyberattacks against businesses in the United States last year.  And according to a recent report in the Telegraph, our major banks are being hit with cyberattacks “every minute of every day”…

    Every minute, of every hour, of every day, a major financial institution is under attack.

    Threats range from teenagers in their bedrooms engaging in adolescent “hacktivism”, to sophisticated criminal gangs and state-sponsored terrorists attempting everything from extortion to industrial espionage. Though the details of these crimes remain scant, cyber security experts are clear that behind-the-scenes online attacks have already had far reaching consequences for banks and the financial markets.

    For much more on all of this, please see my previous article entitled “Big Banks Are Being Hit With Cyberattacks ‘Every Minute Of Every Day’“.

    Up until now, attacks on our infrastructure have not caused any significant interruptions in our lifestyles.

    But at some point that will change.

    Are you prepared for that to happen?

    We live at a time when our world is becoming increasingly unstable.  In the years ahead it is quite likely that we will see massive economic problems, major natural disasters, serious terror attacks and war.  Any one of those could cause substantial disruptions in the way that we live.

    At this point, even NASA is warning that “civilization could collapse”…

    A new study sponsored by Nasa’s Goddard Space Flight Center has highlighted the prospect that global industrial civilisation could collapse in coming decades due to unsustainable resource exploitation and increasingly unequal wealth distribution.

    Noting that warnings of ‘collapse’ are often seen to be fringe or controversial, the study attempts to make sense of compelling historical data showing that “the process of rise-and-collapse is actually a recurrent cycle found throughout history.” Cases of severe civilisational disruption due to “precipitous collapse – often lasting centuries – have been quite common.”

    Michael T. Snyder is a graduate of the University of Florida law school and he worked as an attorney in the heart of Washington D.C. for a number of years. Today, Michael is best known for his work as the publisher of The Economic Collapse Blog and The American Dream. If you want to know what things in America are going to look like in a few years read his new book The Beginning of the End.


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      1. “Wow. What would you do without power for 18 months?”

        I wouldnt be on this stupid computer for one,,,

        then I would have coffee, make breakfast of sorts, most likely rice and spam
        then I would go out and tend the gardens!

        • Exactly; that’s what we’re supposed to be doing. No better days than in my garden and tending to my chickens.

          • Bunch of BS.
            The Grid is not the power generation.
            Even if they knocked out these substations that would just keep energy traveling from say Los Angeles to Portland. The power is still there. Some places may be without power but the majority of the states will be powered up.

            • actually they are telling the truth. substation are used to divide and reduce the power coming from the power station and send it to another substation that divide and reduce the power again until it gets to a low enough voltage to be used in a house. destroying transformers would be the same as a starter and cables in a car going bad. just because you have a good battery won’t make your car run.

              • Well, you are wrong Omega. The Substations that they are talking about are grid substations. They are part of the inter connect grid.
                There are about 7000 large powerplants in the USA that operate and close to that that are mothballed. All that knocking out these substations will happen is that local utilities will need to re negociate their rates.

                • Our utility is so small and has redundant systems, small pockets would be out but the whole thing for 18 months, not so much,
                  Now, could the economy dive so far nobody could afford to keep the power connected,,,
                  Definitely see that.
                  But then again this is Maui, not exactly LA!

                  • you lucky bugger. I love maui would love to move there. comin for a visit this august. going to hunt on lanai. might have to “miss” my return flight.

                  • FYI:

                    This site has a comment rating system controlled by users.

                    The thumbs up or down flagging system allows readers to determine if the post is, or is not, relevant to the conversation. User comments that are flagged with a thumbs down too many times in relation to a thumbs up vote will be hidden from view.

                    The rating system on this site means nothing. It is easily manipulated.

                    Anyone can visit multiple Wi-Fi hot spots and influence thumbs up or down.

                    The rating system on this site is subject to manipulation.

                    Just a FYI.

                  • YMWW, while what you say may be true, what a sad sad person it would take to visit multiple wi-fi hotspots just to manipulate the rating system of this forum…

                  • @Mac:

                    Why did you edit my post of March 19, 2014 at 5:22 pm?

                    I know it’s your site Mac, but are you in the habit of rewriting the posts of folks who comment on your site?

                  • @Outlaw:

                    You can take a “smart phone” to Starbucks, WalMart and the OutBack; there you can “thumb” 3 times in one day. If you add those thumbs to your home IP thumb, that makes 4 thumbs in one day.

                    You don’t think this happens?

                    If you don’t, the durango kidd has some lake front property in Cave Creek to sell you. It’s a hell of a deal.

                • look up northeast blackout of 2003.

                  • There’s also the NYC blackout of ’64.

              • ALERT. ALERT ALERT ALERT

                NINO. AKA. XXXXXX EDITED


                2. PROOF THE PAGE HAS SOME NICE.



                ALL ARE WELCOME.




                FACEBOOK PAGE.

                • I guess some opsec lessons will be in order

                  • Best get back on your meds… Just sayin

                  • Holly shit people red thumbing my home. Shit I seen some of your places. Well if you can feel good about someone’s successes. Well fuck you than. I know I am an ass but Ihave never put down someone home no matter where or what it is. Some of you I guessare some real price of shit.

                    I worked hard and sacrifice many years of my life so my family to include extended familyand friend to enjoy nice things. We prep because it is inportimportant to us.

                    Well if that is how it will be I how you are the one at my property line when SHTF. You won’t even deserve a mercyet y bullet let alone help if you are in the area.

                    I so fucking mad. I know we all rib but I thought even with our different views we were prep/ surialist.

                    May all your water supplies be containanted with the bodies of the dead Fu

                  • In some “war related” news, The loudest complainer about the fact that the US hasn’t bombed Iran and attacked Russia over the Ukraine is none other than…wait for it…ISRAEL!


                    Mind you, the Israelis aren’t advocating getting THEIR ASSES SHOT OFF, but getting OURS! So damn much for God’s “CHOSEN” people.

                    I’m not a Jew hater, but I AM a war hater and I dislike people trying to paint a target on MY country, for their own purposes.

                    If the shoe fits…

                • I don’t understand the down thumbs. No one here like pools or cool cars.

                  • Wheres the link,
                    Always curious

                  • Lol, was thinking same Kula.

                • http:// 3n3myofth3stat3 .com/2014/03/19/fagboypuss-fbp-physical-home-location/

                  Remove Space

                  Look For yourself

                  • i’ll bring the pretzels and a case of becks beer .

                • bwaaahahaha ;0)

                  ;0p pssszzt

                  i’ll leave it up for 24 hrs .

                  then take it down .

                  it will only reappear for another 24 hr period , every time you cyber stalk my website .


                  • Cyber Stalking My ass. This was a fun tit for tat between us when it boiled down to it.

                    Since you are not smart to relized I am not bound by any rule or laws because I legally just a useer where you as a web site “Owner” have legal resposiabllies.

                    So as openly allow information which could bring harm of any type to the user. You did this with intent to harm. I have you posts. Copied and all your server copies also.

                    I am sure you notice how poorly your computer has been “running today since I “Got Piss” and decide to act like a child”. I have what I need to shame you like you have never been shamed before.

                    I also want to make this perfectly clear I do not fear you in any bite as a man. Your skills as a fighter are not enough. I am not bolstering behind a computer keyboard today.

                    Since you looked at me I have now taking a real look at you. Since you now know my abilities and access to “friend”.

                    You have post here my friends and there abilities. I chose as of now to use them.

                    Am going to follow many routes to show you who the old man is.

                    And agaist advise I challage you to debate in your blog. Not about the the upcoming Coco War 2.

                    No about the bullshit you post. I dare you I F(^%^$^$ dare you.

                    This OLd man I have been here on this earth twice as long as you have been I have forgotten more shit then you will every learn.

                • quit cyber stalking .

              • The lack of refridgeration is gonna be the biggest threat to health that i see. At least the first one.
                All the spoiled food just being cast off in backyards.
                Wild dogs and cats , zombies and such , it would be a real ugly situation.

                What do you do with a 1400lb animal that you just butchered ? Cant hardly smoke a side of beef .

                • Do what the indians did.

                  • AND ? What did the indians do ?

                  • Open casino’s

                  • They said “fuck it” and drank.

                  • slingshot

                    Dang that made me laugh!

                  • Do what the Indians do? Lose the Pennant races for the past 60 and the next 199 years? Or starve waiting for buffalo

                • My family always slaughtered in the winter so our environment helped us keep it from rotting instead of facilitating it. That leaves time to slice and smoke that side of beef. In an emergency we may not be able to wait so I’ve stored hundred of canning jars with original and reusable lids.

                  • Good on you PP. Cold smoke with lots of salt & spices with “bark”. I like elec. but I can do without.

                    Open casino’s. They finally smarted up SS.

                • Within 48 hours there would be no food at grocery stores. Not just refrigerated food but None. No power means no banking, ATM’s, debit transactions. No power means no fuel being pumped, no products of any kind being delivered, no flights, no ambulances, no cops, no hospitals, no mail, no public water or sewer.

                  • No one telling me about how they can help me with my credit cards, cable TV, Mortgage, investments, no junk mail. Half of the issues up there are not a problem. Not sure that a lot of other issues aren’t better. A whole lot of people will find out what not living off someone else is like. Overall might be good for the country

                  • AND , then the blue helmets show up and tell you that you need to be relocated to a scure location .

                    Does anyone really believe that these communist bastarts will let us live in peace ?
                    Even with a self sustainable situation , do you think that you will be ALLOWED to stay at home ?

                  • You could still open doors to banks and withdraw money that way. However, no gas stations working means we’re stuck wherever we are, no escape to more rural area, which would suck!

                  • No cops, a good thing.

                • cut it up, dry/smoke it. and salt some of it WTF do you think they did before refirgerators? drank warm beer, ate dried/salted meat.

                • HA, HA. HA. HA, HA!!! Finally, the poor cows get a break and the people starve!

                • The hell you can’t!

                • you could always make a smoke house not a big one. one just big enough to put a whole cow or hog in they arnt that hard to make.. some thing to think a bought may b a spring project…

              • The grids used to be public owned… when Bush was in office, he fixed things so the system was taken over (bought out) by wealthy elites, who have the prerogative of selling the electricity to the highest bidder– they don’t have to sell it to us.

            • Delton
              You don’t know what your talking about i have worked in the power generation field for MANY years and NOT as a grunt! the problem is this NO-ONE carries the transformers on there shelf they are special ordered and then they are built and 18 months would be the EARLIEST you might get one, providing all the materials needed are available. this has been true for many years and has been a point of contention because NO-ONE has the money to keep these type of special items on hand! so be aware this scenario is valid!!

          • I think 18 months is very ‘optimistic’, should such repairs be needed. If the gird was down for an extended period, there would be chaos. Many with essential skills might not want to leave their families.

            “The power grid has morphed in size tenfold during the past 50 years. While solar flares, cyber attacks, and an EMP are perhaps the most extensive and frightening threats to the electrical system, the infrastructure could just as easily fail in large portions due to weather-related events.

            The power grid is basically a ticking time bomb which will spawn civil unrest, lack of food, clean water, and a multitude of fires if it does go down.”

            “The American Society of Civil Engineers recently published a review of our national energy infrastructure, which includes oil and gas production/distribution as well as the electric grids. It received a D rating.”

            “Our world-class economy and modern society cannot be sustained with our current infrastructure.”

            “infrastructure in poor to fair condition and mostly below standard, with many elements approaching the end of their service life. A large portion of the system exhibits significant deterioration. Condition and capacity are of significant concern with a strong risk of failure.”

            • I think if it goes down for 18 months……it ain’t coming back.

              18 months and 90% of the country is dead. There will be no purpose for a power grid at that point.

              Who will be around to build it….much less maintain it?

              • I totally agree that in 18 months you’d see around 90% of the US population extinct.

              • If that many people go, why would you want the grid? With all the solar and wind going in, In 10 years the grid as it now stands may not be worth saving. If you put the cash people say the grid and transmission lines need into rooftop solar the big grid is dead.

            • obama’s executive order claims the power to work anyone without pay. People with needed skills better not be home if they want to avoid his civilian draft.

              • My response to conscription (i.e. slavery) will the same as if they came for my guns or preps.

                They’d best bring plenty of body bags.

              • So his executive order claims that he can make me work for him? Well, I claim the whole world is mine, all mine. So all you people send me your gold and silver. (I’ll let younow how much I get)

          • As long as the Sun comes up and the Wind blows we will be fine.

            • “WE” as in the Planet will be fine. At the rate we are going the Earth will just flick us all off it’s back and carry on. I still laugh at George Carlin’s routine on how Earth will always carry on, with or without us.

          • -There would be no heat for your home. – got a chain saw and gas and a wood stove.

            -Water would no longer be pumped into most homes. – On well water and I have a hand pump

            -Your computer would not work. – I have solar

            -There would be no Internet. – no loss there

            -Your phones would not work. – no loss there

            -There would be no television. – no loss there

            -There would be no radio. – There would still be shortwave – I play music, maybe it will be appreciated by others.

            -ATM machines would be shut down. – no big deal

            -There would be no banking. – no big deal

            -Your debit cards and credit cards would not work. – no big deal

            -Without electricity, gas stations would not be functioning. – no big deal

            -Most people would be unable to do their jobs without electricity and employment would collapse. – a new economy would emerge and it will be labor intensive requiring many hands.

            -Commerce would be brought to a standstill. – a new economy would emerge

            -Hospitals would not be able to function. – Doctors would not have as much paper work and can get back to treating people

            -You would quickly start running out of medicine. – I don’t use any and I do have medicinal plant and literature.

            -All refrigeration would shut down and frozen foods in our homes and supermarkets would start to go bad. – no big deal

            • Off Topic…

              Netanyahu Orders Israel Army To Prepare For Possible Military Strike Against Iran In 2014


            • Good for you Mr Rick. TO all those doomers out there who say a FEMA camp or the Government will be your only salvation, take a lesson here. Be an American, be creative, take care of yourself and leave the FEMA camps to the Libtards who by their very nature cannot think independently.

        • The underlying theme in this article is a grid down catastrophe for America. How that happens is irrelevant. The possibility of the grid being collapsed is why I don’t think we face a major war with destruction of our infrastructure. It is far cheaper, to take down the grid and the consequences will be grim.

          • @ Mordecai –

            Most folks just don’t understand that this is all nothing more than a matter of priorities. The nitwits supposedly governing us there in the District of Criminals had to decide between the maintenance and refurbishment of infrastructure here at home or their beloved military adventurism abroad. Unfortunately … infrastructure lost out; power grid, railroads, bridges, highways and potable water supply, etc.

            Those proverbial chickens are coming home to roost. When they get here, I am pretty sure that they will all crap on our heads in unison. Soon boys & girls, much sooner than most believe possible I fear.

            This article did raise one very serious consideration that all should have. If any member of your family is dependent on medication, then you should have at LEAST 1 year supply on hand at all times. Some injectables won’t keep that long; pills and capsules will. Do the best you can with what you have to do it with. Good Luck.

            • what about someone on insulin ? you can’t get more than 30 day prescription worth at a time.

              • ABOUT INSULIN– I knew this lady who had to take insulin, had all sorts of health problems due to her diabetes. However, she went to this doctor who helped her get off insulin– had her eat little tiny portions of various foods– the key was a VARIETY of foods, but in very small amounts… she got well, was doing extremely better, didn’t have to take insulin anymore!

              • Interestingly, insulin does not require a prescription. One can literally go into Walmart and request it from the pharmacist just on a whim (although you’d be paying a pretty penny for it out of pocket). Flash-freezing insulin for later thaw & use is possible as well and the insulin retains activity if done right (See “Diabetics in Disaster” and accompanying letters from SurvivalBlog). Thus, a tiny solar-powered freezepack in a TEOTWAWKI situation could store a lot on insulin indefinitely.

            • I have plastic lunch bags which supposedly don’t need ice to keep stuff cold…does anyone know if they actually work? (I never tried it; I use mine for storing bags of beans).

        • No power?…a minor inconveinence at worst…

        • Good article by Mr. Snyder. The only major flaw I see is his pessimistic 18 month return to full power grid capabilities. There would be a lot of obstacles to be over come.

          Sorry Kula, HA is not on the U.S. power grid and life as you know it would probably continue on except of course when the Chinese and Japanese started fighting over your islands.

          First and foremost there would be a rioting and killing spree. Then there would be a period of gang style territorial control and then of course the military would come in and try to establish control. But in those three phases there is a multitude of political scenarios both internal and external that could come into play.

          Annexation of states or parts thereof would be just one of the internal problems that would arise. As to external you would have to be worried about foreign entities meddling in our affairs and indeed even trying to gain a foothold on our American soil.

          All in all though it would seem that it would be hard to put Humpty Dumpty back together again. Our financial status in the world would never ever be able to recover and a power grid down scenario would most certainly cause a complete melt down of our economy for the foreseeable future.

          Not a bad way of sprinkling some water on the roots of the American Constitution and getting a do-over again on getting the United States back to the country we all once loved.


          • “Not a bad way of sprinkling some water on the roots of the American Constitution and getting a do-over again on getting the United States back to the country we all once loved.”

            In a way, it would not be a bad way of watering the tree.

            Still, a very scary proposition. Ima prayin’ fo’ peace.

            Thumbs up for Big ol’ B.

          • Big B
            If this were to happen, I agree it would most certainly cause a complete meltdown of our economy. If that happens then the whole developed world economy fails as well. Governments and there militaries would have some big decisions to make. Maintain sovereignty and help each other through it, or join together with good intentions if that’s possible, or pounce on the weakest and take their resources. Or maybe the government would be overwhelmed and not really able to function well enough to offer it’s people anything in exchange for their allegiance and then here comes WROL. Assuming the 48 states would loose all electrical generation, (grid down), for a year, and that’s a big leap, then I see a world wide ripple effect that would certainly be TEOTWAWKI. All that having been said, I believe that there are a number of local spots that can switch off or disconnect from the grid and bring back on line hydroelectric, natural gas and coal fired, and some nuclear powered generators to serve their local areas within a month. All of these substations have switches and many of them are loop fed meaning they can be energized from more than one direction. I don’t doubt for a minute that everything could go down, but I believe a number of spots could be brought back on line within a few weeks. Could be as much as 40% or 50% of the country.

            • Yeah, you would think something this critical would have the DHS, IRS, SSI and all other three letter agencies buying spare transformers instead of billions of .40cal HP.

              Kind of shows you what you already know doesn’t it?

            • Nuclear power would be dead. It takes electricity to run them – supposedly to make electricity…
              Melt downs. Poison air, soil, and water for ever.
              Has anyone been listening to the event in New mexico?
              A nuclear waste plant is blowing its top for over a month now. Plumes of dust over Carlsbad and towards Texas. It is not looking good…

            • Nuclear power would be dead. It takes electricity to run them – supposedly to make electricity…
              Melt downs. Poison air, soil, and water for ever.
              Has anyone been listening to the event in New mexico?
              A nuclear waste plant is blowing its top for over a month now. Plumes of dust over Carlsbad and towards Texas. It is not looking good…

              • Oops sorry, computer is slow to post, wish we had a delete double post button…

          • A couple of points:

            1) If we go down for any reason the rest of the world goes with us. Therefore interference/invasion by foreign powers is not a concern. Whatever problems we may be having, theirs are GUARANTEED to be worse.

            2) The ONLY thing that can get us American’s on the same page is a massive threat or challenge. See Pearl Harbor or the moon missions.

            3) You grossly under-estimate the resources available to us. It only took about 6 months for industry to retool and bury both the German Rich and the Japanese Empire under military equipment. For fuck’s sake the US Treasury signed the entire silver bullion depository to the US Army to make the windings that made the gas centrifuges that enriched the uranium to make “little boy”. The reason that they had to use silver was because we couldn’t produce enough copper (a strategic material).

            If this did in fact come to pass I am confident that our reaction would go down in history as one of our finest moments. History has proven that betting against America, for all of our faults, is a suckers bet.

        • Spam. The breakfast of Champions!

        • This is also planetary devastation.

        • So if things went black… I’d just need gas.

          We’d run out of rubbers fast! ha…nothing to do but bump uglies. ha

        • I don’t live in the continental US. So in some sense I don’t care about the grid. I have plenty of food and water, it either wanders around the land, grows year round, or falls from the sky. My Internet is Satellite based. My fuel comes from Asia. I’m months away from a off grid 8kW Solar system(American taxpayers are going to subsidize part of it).
          Having said that, I understand cities on the mainland are very fragile. I also know that American big cities are the biggest threat to my health, safety, and welfare as they keep electing Democrats. Maybe bringing down the grid would be a blessing in disguise.
          There is a lot of Americans that could do well without the “Blue” cities.

          • How do you like the satellite internet? What provider?
            Just curious

            • It is more complex than I let on.
              There are no cables to Hawaii.
              We are the most remote rock on
              the entire Earth.

              Military quality Satellites service
              the islands through Commercial
              things like AT&T and Univ of Hawaii.
              My business access is 768 KBit up and 128 K
              down from AT&T. My home is not serviced,
              due to Democrat Party rules, I’m a white guy
              in a Hawaiian state.
              You can lease a high speed
              mobile transponder channel for
              about $160 a month.
              That will give you balanced up and down
              in the 1 MBit range, Hershey Corp.
              does this in Hilo.

              Not much else to tell.


              • Im on Maui so curious, sick of Oceanic, they keep raising the rates,,

                • Sorry for you Bra,
                  I’m on the Big island, can’t even get
                  Try Dish network. Your cell phone as a
                  hot spot works also. Generally

        • NO INTERNET??!! Wait a minute!!

          I’m used to going without heat; I have back up batteries for my radio; I have food stocked up (yes, you can eat canned food from the can without heating it); but NO INTERNET??!!

        • Which 19?

      2. Lets hope so.

        Take it all down for at least a year.

        That’ll clean out most of the cities and the vermin that inhabit them.

        It really wouldn’t be that bad. Human’s lived for just a bit of time long before electricity came around – we’d do it again, just on a smaller scale than we have now.

        I sort of look forward to it. No computers, no planes, no car’s, etc, etc.

        • I actually look forward to it too,,,
          I know that whenever we have had power out and such that was when our comunity really came together, rather than just passing eachother on the road hurrying off to our jobs and lives people were out walking the neighborhood and chatting with eachother,
          I can live without the electricity,, and can definitely live without my phone, even though you would think it was stuck to my hand by the way I post on this site,,
          It wouldnt be the first time in my life that I had to do whatever for food, and honestly dont think I could be situated any better for food production than I am.
          Bring it on I say!
          my sweetheart will get used to it eventually

          • Will the REPR still function with no electricity?

            • Like a champ!
              Will be good when i go for deer in the brush below our house, or goats up on the mountain, fast follow up shots.

        • Your lack of vision and critical thinking worries me.

          If and when the Power Grid goes down due to an attack, it would mostly be the U.S. that is affected…not the rest of the world. Living like the Amish is not a bad thing, except that almost ALL of America’s enemies are going to still have POWER and technology…and they will easily use it against you.

          Another key factor all of you utopians keep forgetting is the nuclear nightmare in our own backyards- 104 commercial nuclear reactors which only have up to 30 days of emergency fuel at BEST. If you cannot create, transport or pump fuel(or water), the reactors cannot keep the spent fuel pools cooled. Within 72 hrs coolant begins to superheat and boil off. Spent rods are exposed to air and melt down. You have Fuk-US-shima times 1000. The WHOLE PLANET will die from radiation, some right away.

          So keep wishing for the end…it will find you sooner than you think.

          • Socrates.

            Nothing has been done about the nuclear power plants losing power for over 50 years. Nothing going to be done about it for the next 50 years. You would hope that those in charge would be concerned about a meltdown. But yet again we have a president who don’t care about WW3 by his actions.

            If we lost power and the internet it would be an end of an era. Have to deal with it.

            • The power plants produce power. Their own power. That’s what they do. Substations are not power plants.

              • Sorry, but that is incorrect. Nuclear power plants rely on incoming commercial power to function as ironic as that sounds. As a matter of fact the NRC and Congress has been asked over and over what should be done about this huge vulnerability, with nothing but crickets as a response. Here’s something from the Federal Register involving the NRC on that very topic:

                SUMMARY: The U.S. Nuclear Regulatory Commission (NRC) is publishing for
                public comment a notice of receipt for a petition for rulemaking (PRM),
                dated March 14, 2011, which was filed with the NRC by Thomas Popik. The
                petition was docketed by the NRC on March 15, 2011, and has been
                assigned Docket No. PRM-50-96. The petition requests that the NRC amend
                its regulations regarding the domestic licensing of special nuclear
                material to require production and utilization facilities licensed by
                the NRC to assure long-term cooling and unattended water makeup of
                spent fuel pools.

                h ttp://

                And the Congressional Report:
                h ttp://

                Here’s a recent incident whereby the plant OFFSITE COMMERICAL POWER and leaked radioactive ‘steam’
                A nuclear plant in Illinois shut down one reactor Monday after a transformer failed. The problem is growing for aging nuclear plants. But in this case, the public was never in danger, officials say.
                h ttp://

                h ttp://

                • This is what happens when a plant goes “black plant.” the yard breaker trips, which causes an upset and trips the turbine. this means that NO electrical power would be supplied and the diesels would kick in.

                  The way plants are designed is that all house power comes directly off the turbine before the transformers. Each unit is able to run on its own without connection to the grid.

                • @Socrates,
                  That amazed me when I first started working in a nuke. The fact that they have to have power coming in. We here have 6 in and 6 out. All I believe at 345Kv.

                  And this morning they were snapping and popping like crazy. On wet morning from fog or rain/mist they remind me of rice krispies when I walk under them.

                • Byron is only a short distance from here and in their outage right now. While they are in the same fleet as mine, they are a PWR where as mine is a BWR. But I remember when this happened.

                • @ Socrates
                  how long would it take for rods to cool to prevent a meltdown?

              • This is correct. In an EMP event it is possible that the Nuke station would not be able to have control power which would cause a melt down, but in this specific scenario, the individual plant would still be able to produce house power if the grid were incapacitated and not able to push power out.

              • ED
                Without incoming power the Nuke plants only have about 10 to 18 days of fuel to run generators for power. This will be used to power them down. You will still have hot rods in them the water will boil off and there will be a melt down.
                I live with in 10 miles from a plant. I have been told this by TPTB at the plant that is how it works.

                • you were told wrong. STG Dale.

            • There is a priority system for fuel and power.
              I live in south Louisiana. (Hey don’t knock it until you’ve tried it.)
              Experienced hurricanes with extended power outages. Personally for 2 weeks, longer in remote areas, less time for in cities. The bigger industries around here including the plants that convert oil to gas and other fuels have their own power generators. They can continue to run as long as they have feed stock. The priorities have been given to emergency services and law enforcement, general public last and rationed.
              I suspect there is an emergency plan to get fuel to the nuclear plants for there generators as well.

          • This would be me. I live 10 miles from a power plant and downwind as well. I’m in God’s hands.

            • Christians know that humans do not have the power to destroy the world or wipe out humanity.

              The world will only end after the 7 year Tribulation and the 1000 year reign of Christ – then Christ Himself will be the One to destroy this world.

              Sure seems like we are getting close to that time.

          • Agreed Socrates, those that wish this to happen aren’t thinking of EVERYTHING.

            Now here where I work, I am told we DO have at least 30 days of fuel for coolant pumps and we have lots of water in the mighty Mississip. I can’t verify that (the fuel part anyway, I am looking at the Mississip as I type 😉 but that’s what I have been told.

          • Fuk-US-hima times 104, but hey, I hear yer argument.

            What’s a little math among friends?

        • We’ll live in a global police state after a year or two. There will be no “starting over”.

          • A year or two? My guess is three months before the blue helmets show up.
            Yep , no starting over , bye bye America .

        • Be interesting to see what that penthouse on the 72 floor overlooking Central Park is worth now?

        • I couldn’t agree more. I think that’s exactly what the planet needs, a good purging. Things would be far better if we went back to bartering and growing our own food. I look forward to it.

        • You take a pretty cavalier attitude towards the potential suffering of your fellow countrymen. To look gleefully towards the miserable death of millions of people? What the fuck is wrong with you?

          It could be that attitude is the reason we’re in the mess we’re in now.

      3. How does one get the permission to post w/o moderation?

        • Please use an email address when posting (even if fake), and the system will eventually recognize you and no longer require moderation for most posts.



          • Thank you!

          • Every single one of my posts, 100% of them require a waiting time for moderation and I have been posting here as BJ for over 3 years. Waiting time here recently has been on average between 2 and 6 hours.

          • Every single post I make, 100% of them require moderation with this message “Your comment is awaiting moderation.”
            And I have been posting here for over 3 years…..AND this happens whether I put in a real email, a fake email or no email address.

            • I’ve noticed that if you put a link to another site, you have to wait for moderation. I assume that Mac doesn’t want us to get a virus from a link on his site.

              Also, I once deleted all my cookies and temporary files in an effort to make my virus scan work faster. The next time I posted, my name and email address didn’t come up automatically and I had to wait for moderation.

              • Even when my poster name comes up and when no link is posted, I have to wait. Like I said 100% of the time (posts) are stuck in moderation land for a time.

          • unless you are like me and have been put on permanent moderation because I got mad as hell about the admission that the NSA and CIA were watching us but we all needed to be really careful of what we said on here. I became irate as we all should have and am on permanent moderation for my outbursts. Really it was a victory though as shortly after Snowden and the likes started coming out and speaking against it as the big tech companies are now doing. That is how you defeat these people. By standing tall, calling them out when they stick their necks out and using aggressive tactics to counter them. I am quite proud of my outbursts on here and in other places on the internet and in real life. The truth needs to be exposed and the liars punished and made to feel like dirt.

            • Eeder, I have to agree, except for the part about watching what I say. I get so sick of hearing that. Plus, has anyone here ever noticed that only white people are told to watch what they say and never any minority groups. That is the biggest reason I don’t submit to political correctness because it’s never used against any minority groups. they can all take the PC crap and shove it.

              • R.B.
                I hate P.C. B.S.

          • Why do I have to wait for moderation than? I made lots of posts. And I put an email.

        • Please send $50.00 to Mac at the address below.

      4. There would be no heat for your home. WRONG

        -Water would no longer be pumped into most homes. Not mine; hand pump.

        -Your computer would not work. AWESOME!!!!!!!!!

        -There would be no Internet. EVEN MORE AWESOME!!!!!!!

        -Your phones would not work. AWESOME!!!!!!!!!

        -There would be no television. And the drawback is????

        -There would be no radio. Yes there would be; HAMS

        -ATM machines would be shut down. AWESOME!!!!!!!!!

        -There would be no banking. AWESOME!!!!!!!!!

        -Your debit cards and credit cards would not work. AWESOME!!!!!!!!!

        -Without electricity, gas stations would not be functioning.

        -Most people would be unable to do their jobs without electricity and employment would collapse. Better than you think; LIVING would become the new ‘job’ and we’d adjust accordingly.

        -Commerce would be brought to a standstill. NOPE!!! You have tomatoes, I have eggs; we trade = COMMERCE.

        -Hospitals would not be able to function. Wrong. Skills would not be lost from the doc’s or RN’s. Equipment/drugs would be lost though. But they’d still be able to set a bone, give stitches, etc.

        -You would quickly start running out of medicine. Yup; that would suck but in the long run would help everyone out. PLUS there are so many plants to help us out it’s not funny.

        -All refrigeration would shut down and frozen foods in our homes and supermarkets would start to go bad. Jeesh – root cellars, holes in the ground, WINTER. Again – we did this for CENTURIES before electricity, we’ll do it again.

        • Under the current regime you would still be required to pay taxes as well as local property taxes since the gubbermint still has the need to have “some” power and control over you.

          • Yup, thus guaranteeing COMMERCE. The Gub ain’t going w/o taxes – that’s for sure.

          • @Confederate

            Under the current regime, your tax records are kept in computer databases, as are your bank accounts, credit cards, medical records, school records, loan records, mortgages, car loans, etc etc, etc. .Gov everywhere might WANT to tax you, but they’d have no way of figuring what the amount used to be or “should” be. On top of that, since they’d have no way of paying the police, sheriffs, and other LEO, they’d have very few options of how to ENFORCE what they think you or I “should” be forking over in taxes. Or as John Cena used to say “You want some? Come get some!”

            Now a clever and enterprising group of .gov might figure out a solution; but just for a second, picture the average gov bureaucrat or politician that you know. Got that picture in focus? Good; now please understand that the reason THEY are “average” is because half of their co-conspirators are stupider than they are.

            That much being said, I am NOT looking forward to any kind of grid down situation, as countless millions would perish, many of them people who are completely innocent. I keep hoping that somehow, some way, we will be pulled back from the brink. I’m just not confident that this is what will, in fact, actually take place. Which is why I will keep on doing what I do, same as everyone else here

            • “the reason THEY are “average” is because half of their co-conspirators are stupider than they are.”

              Well, that’s the median, not the average. YOur point still stands, with that one correction.

              Again, what’s a bit o’ math amongst friends?

            • What, you don’t think the govt has backup power on their own systems? They’ll save their own data one way or the other…bet on it.

              • “Feds have Back up power” …..very True……
                However….who is going to distribute the IRS bill ? If we are grid down….I expect that mail service will collapse as well….for a number of reasons. #1 No fuel. #2 no mail sorting machines working
                #3 it ain’t safe out there …..#4 they ain’t working 4 free either !
                Depending on the cause of grid down….there may not be any transportation…except maybe
                Pony express. I’m not giving my horses up…..& in most areas the average government worker
                Has never been on a horse. Right now we are all just speculating…..
                Standing by in
                Montgomery County Texas

        • 90% of Americans will die too. Or are you looking forward to that too???

          • still not seeing the down side,,,

            • @ kulafarmer
              the smell would be horrendous.

              • True,,,
                Lotsa compost!

            • The downside would be that a lot of innocent and decent people, men women and children would die, probably leaving plenty of real assholes alive to make the rest of us miserable.

              It won’t be only the fat, lazy moochers that die. It is the steady devaluation of human life that got us where we are today.

              It’s pretty arrogant to think that everybody else in the world deserves to die but us.

              • Who said we were going to live?

                • Well, I’m gonna give it my best shot.

                  • I am too but in no way figure i deserve to live more than my neighbor or the schlub down in town,
                    I know i could die of a medical issue and no medical treatment as easily as some poor woman could starve to death!
                    It can easily be like rolling dice, and there are no guarantees.

              • Agreed and amen!

          • Some days I think that’s a good start, some day’s I think more than that is a good start. Other day’s I think only 89% is just fine.

            Statistic’s show that 17% of 34% of all statistic’s on the internet are made up.

            America, in general, needs to think outside of having some piece of iCr@p stuck in our face 18 hours a day. Learn how to grow food, how life gets along without electricity, etc. If you CHOSE to ignore dangers than dangers will eventually get you.

            Our lives are wonderful due to ‘modern’ society. But it’s also our biggest weakness. As a society we need to be able to wake up, realize the AC flow is off, go ‘oh cr@p’ and move on to the days activities. We won’t so we’ll pay (well, some will pay, some won’t).

            My concern is the nuke plants – that’s it. But there are so many that it may not matter where you are. One way or another some part of the fallout will get you. Maybe not if you’re in AK – but I’m not sure of that either.

            No easy answers, just prepare and learn to suck it up until called Home.

          • Not sure where this 90% of Americans will die if the power goes out comes from but Id wager its blown way out of proportion to reality…sure people will die but it may not be the ones that alot of folks figure it will be…people will do what they have to do to survive and I think itll shock some just how resiliant even those sheeple could be once they need to be…I think that some of these figures if counted on may cost those counting on them their lives/property instead…point is we wont know how this shakes out till well AFTER the event…plan accordingly…

            • Just think Barry’s brother wouldn’t even know it happened.

            • FEMA and others have done the studies and concluded the 90% number. I know someone who was involved in these studies from Michigan and he told me about them back in 2011, before it was put out there all over the place like it is now. When I shared that info with people I was not listened to anymore. Now it is main stream information.

              I love how that happens when you mention something and your looked at like your a freaking nut case. Then main stream talks about it way later as if it is no big deal and yet no one comes back to you and appologizes.

              • BJ…if thats the case and FEMA(us govicorp)came up with it then I will definatly have to question it…this govt does nothing without an agenda,nothing…there are no aspects of this govicorp that havent been planned/studied/war-gamed to the max…the question then is what is their endgame plan for this info…anyone doing such “prognostication” is still just doing a best case guess based on the info they have or they claim to have..often there is a “goal” already decided and they then research the best route to arrive at that goal…no offence to you personally but I simply dont believe that figure especially if the govt is in any way involved…they dont have our interest in mind when they come up with figures/facts or numbers…thanks REB

            • That was the number in the fictional work “One Second After.” Some congressman at a hearing subsequently asked the question as to whether 90% would die, did not get a positive response yet it is now the number they used. If everyone over 65 plus everyone in municipalities over 2,500 died it still wouldn’t be 90%

              Compare the population of your state before rural electrification to what it is today to get a more realistic number. While it’s true we are less agrarian than before it is also true we’re better educated and that empowers us to adapt faster because of our retained history.

              • @Pastor,
                I know a guy who was involved in the study FEMA did, it exists and they did in fact conclude 90% would die.

              • Pastor…thats how alot of so called facts get put out into the mainstream thought process …someone says it and it gets repeated till its the accepted “truth”
                Ive no doubt there will be way too many deaths…one is too many…and for sure there may be pockets of die offs particularly in places like big cities in a major heatwave or arctic blast but on average I dont buy the figure…also agree with your statement that theres alot more knowledge available on average… so if folks die its probably due to ineptitude on their part… REB

          • B.C.
            I don’t think 90% will die. We might loose 45% and most if not all will be Zombies and Leaches!!!
            I don’t see a down side to this. They don’t care if I work my self to death to give them everything they want and have so why should I care what happens to them!!
            It will come to survival of the fittest!!! I plan on being the fittest!!!

            • Howdy, Sarge. If only the scum died, that’s one of the best things that can happen. I also plan on being the fittest. MOLON LABE braveheart

            • Sorry, but if you think about it, the people with less scruples and little conscience will be more likely to start stealing and robbing and killing much earlier. Their conscience will easily permit them to do whatever they want to do.

              Inversely, The honest people who don’t believe in stealing, robbing and cheating will resist doing it for as long as they can, some maybe right up to the end. This will not enhance the possibility of their survival.

              Leeches are already well adapted to living off of everyone else, nothing will be new for them. They will continue to find something to leech onto.

              The Zombies might adapt quicker than we might think. They don’t even know what a scruple is, much less have any.

              Criminals won’t miss a beat and probably get more aggressive and brutal.

              I’m afraid more good people will die than I personally have the stomach for. Sgt Dale, you should, IMO, rethink that.

        • I’m with you. I don’t think this is not all that bad. It will give people the opportunity to get back to the basics. People will adapt and survive.They have for many years. Today’s society is lazy and worthless. It will weed out all of the leaches on the current system of government dependence. No one has pride any more, self worth anything. They want there pizza, beer, and TV and they done even want to work for it. Do i hope this happens NO but if it does there are some brighter sides to look to instead of it being a fully negative event.

        • A+ Really??!! Great comment!

        • How nice for you. Unfortunately, some of us have grandchildren who are waiting to be born and not having a phone when someone lives hundreds of miles away across the country is not so wonderful. This is not fun and games…many many MANY innocents will die if it all goes to hell.

          • C.F.
            The power outage is the least of our worries.
            With the Economy is going to Shit, WW3 on the horizon, You just don’t know what coming next but when it dose come people are going to die.
            I have Grandchildren also and I will do everything I can to help them thru this, as I know you will.
            All we can do is what we can with what we have.

          • @cabinfever,
            I am with you and find it really strange when people say they wish for this and think it would all be just grand.

            I’d love to go backwards, I feel like I was born in the wrong century sometimes. But not this way, adn you are right, many innocent will die and many will die cruel and horrible deaths.

            I have seen the study concluding 90% and any one not believeing that number might want to take a look at it.

            Anyone depending on medicine will die.

            Anyone deopending on medical equipment will die.

            Most depending on anti depressants will die, give up and probabnly cause many others to die before they are out.

            Many will be raped and murdered, burnt to death.

            Many will die from disease, new diseases contracted after the collapse.

            Many will kill themselves.

            Many will die from radiation poisoning/sickness.

            Many will die from starvation.

            I think I could go on, but shouldn’t really have to. This is not fantasy land and as mad as I get on here and at TPTB and our screwed up way of life now a days…I still care about life adn the lives of others. Taking a life to defend your own and those of your loved ones is one thing. But to disregard the lives of others so easily and have such a cavalier attitude is wrong and certainly not biblical IMHO. People should be careful when approaching a god like judgement/attitude….if that makes sense.

            • Even more will die of stupidity in the form of eating days-old carrion or toxic plants, carbon monoxide poisoning, dysentery from drinking tainted water or trying to “acquire” supplies from preppers or the government or just doing shit dumb things.

              And that is before people die of exposure.

            • You really don’t want to go back in time. The ‘good old days’ weren’t. It used to be, before antibiotics, that a simple prick on the finger could be a death sentence. It used to be that most soldiers died of disease not enemy fire. It used to be that you (most of us anyways) had to work sunup to sundown just to not starve. No education, no retirement, no rest, no entertainment, nothing but work until you die (usually by disease and violence).

              Looks like I have it pretty damn good. Perfect? not by a long shot but it sure a shit beats what came before!

              • Thing is we WON’T be going back in time.

                The lights going out doesn’t mean that magically, all the information in our heads and in printed books will cease to exist. It just means a lot of our technology will stop working for a time.

                We will still know about wound care and sepsis, water treatment, food safety, waste management and a million other things out ancestors didn’t have the information to properly implement. We would be a lot better off than our ancestors were, because we already know what worked for them, and we can improve on it with what we know now.

          • Worrying about the children waiting to be born is a valid concern. There’s that Biblical saying about woe unto the woman with child in that time of unrest. (Just a paraphrase)

          • Yep–cabinfever–that’s a new one there. Never in history has a grandchild been born hundreds of miles from its granny.
            Gee-and that is ALL you can list to worry about?

      5. Wow.. maybe we should help them by publishing exact locations of critical infrastructure and point out exactly which key elements are usually unprotected or minimally protected..


        • Sh$t, they are do that on Fox and CNN!

      6. If TPTB want the world population to be reduced, the quickest and cleanest way to do that to America is by taking out the grid….emp for example. It’s way cleaner than nukes. My opinion is this at this is way more of a possibility than having our country nuked to death because than TPTB couldn’t use all of our natural resources here down the road. I don’t know about you guys but I say let’s all try and prepare for a grid down scenario both physically and mentally. Practice makes perfect.

        • The best way to reduce the population over the long term is to let women control how many children they have. Turns out that with widely available birth control the fertility rate drops to ‘replacement level’ or just below. That’s why all of the ‘developed countries’ native population is dropping. Women just don’t want to have that many kids if they’re given the choice and who can really blame them?

      7. If they know this, then so do others. Not worried about much other than nuke power plant cooling systems if power goes down. Hell it would do my kids some good to be without power. Maybe I could talk to them more. Lol

      8. Anyone on here real knowledgable in regards to generators?

        • what’s the question?

          • Wife has been on me for a year about getting a generator. And this last two weeks, it has been on my mind, even before all this new news.

            So I am looking for a big yet quiet generator….any suggestions? Like to keep price at or under 2K.

            Also, even though I work in a nuke, I don’t know much about EL….not my field. So when I google generators and get generator inverter….could you explain that in lamens terms. Also can you hook genny up to house power or do you have to just pick a few things to plug into genny?

            Lastly, generator or not….I want to look into led lighting for house to keep costs low and power draw minimized. Any suggestions? I was looking for led lights on stringers that one could tacku around edge of rooms at top of wall edge of cieling.

            Thank you very much.

            • we have a 2000W genny we got just before hurricane Irene. fortunately didn’t have to use it. but when we did, it sounded like a lawnmower running. in a dead quiet neighborhood, thats loud. Someone we know actually woke up one morning to a cold house, looked outside and there WAS a lawnmower running and their genny was gone.

              a good friend got a ?generac? whole house, its on a concrete pad with a locking cover. she says it runs real quiet. Sams last fall had Honda 6500W for about $1500 (same price i paid for my honda 2000W with a hurricane bearing down on us) I know this isn’t in-depth, but hope it helps.

              • Thanks Nopitty

            • BJ
              Honestly say would be better to try and get the $ together to upgrade,,,
              We have a 6500w Honda
              Super quiet and super reliable,
              Have found out the hard way that you get what you pay for,,,
              SHTF that sound signature will be a problem so quiet is good,
              Efficiency and reliability will be huge.
              Dont scrimp.

            • @ BJ
              you could get a portable 7kw generator for about $800 or so from home depot. I’d go with generac. for a brand, they seem to have a good reputation. you could have an electrician come out set up a secondary circuit breaker box with all your necessary powered items. furnace / a few lights / fridge / freezer. have the electrician put a outside weatherproof 220 receptacle that matches your generators output to that secondary circuit panel, it will have a kill switch from main circuit breaker when switched over. (to avoid killing line workers) when all is said and done, you’d be looking at about $2k. it would be pretty loud, and plan on using about half gallon of gas per hour easy. 12 gallons a day at say $4.00 a gallon = $50 a day…… if gas is avail in emergency situation. or take that 2k and start putting it towards solar / wind power. pending on your locations best attributes. you could start small and add to it as you go, but it will pay for itself along the way if tied into your normal grid.
              you mentioned looking at the ol miss in one of your posts, this might be a good site to check out.


              • Just FYI; there is a huge difference between Home Despot (um depot) ‘generac’ and an actual ‘generac’. Went through this whole mess with the ‘boss’ when specing a backup generator for our NOC (network operations center). Turns out that there is a world of difference between the two.

                • Also, Generac got bought by B&S. They used to make their own gas engines in the US; I have no idea if that is still the case. B&S gets a lot of its engines made in china these days. They’ve gotten pretty secretive about how they identify the country of origin these days. I’ve noticed that sometimes it’s on a paper sticker, not stamped into the metal on some products. I see it as all part of the cheapening of America.

                  I got mine in ’04. We had a hurricaine in the fall of ’03, and our neighborhood lost power for a week. There were no gennies to be had in C-ville. I had an electrician wire up six house circuits. Works great, but very noisy. Not strong enough for the A/C, however. When ya run out of gas, what then? We’ve only had two or three hours long outages since then. The derecho knocked out power for week back in ’12.

                  The rich folks around here get the propane powered full house gennies, many of which are made by Generac. Anhyhow.

            • BJ, When making a decision on which one, consider type of fuel, operational hours per fuel unit. Propane always seemed the way to go! OPSEC concerns re: sound and light output under certain conditions may want to be considered too.


              • Thanks db and MM 🙂

        • I repair lots of portable gens.
          Make & Model #’s I’ll try to help ya.

          • McDave
            Ever think of doing a article for SHTF PLAN about Generators and how to use them.
            I think it would be a good deal for all.

          • 15KW

        • Hey BJ
          Just some quick stuff on generators for homes.
          20 kW is minimum, smaller home, maybe 3 br under 2000 sq. ft. living.
          20 kW is generally air cooled and is louder.
          27 kw is generally water cooled and is quieter.
          Typical cost to install ranges from $5,000.00 to $12,000.00.
          Best fuel would be natural gas assuming unlimited supply in pipeline.
          Propane is good and tank size should be minimum 500 gal.
          Generator under load could burn 2 to 3 gal per hour.
          Installations generally include automatic transfer switch, but could be manual.
          Hope that helps.

          • Thank you CITW 🙂

      9. 18 months of no electricity, 18 months without the corporate voice chanting on t.v.

        think I could start a cult in 18 months? free to all religions but anti t.v.

        • I plan on establishing a cult of liberty…where freedom and individuality is the gospel and govt control is blasphemy! 🙂

          • I already have a cult.
            Every morning when i start the tractor all my followers start running to me and cheering (well maybe moo ) .

            • …you must know what happens when you feed them too well…

            • Thats a cult following you have there my friend… :)…I understand completely…starts as soon as I open the door to head for the barnyard…chickens/ducks/turkeys/guineas/geese ect under my feet…piglets grabbing my pants cuffs and pulling…goats stamping and demanding personal attention and all the others…what a life eh?

      10. if something like that happens , the folk living in the city would be making their way to the country asap because they know rural and country folk know how to survive . what then when you get a influx of city refugees coming to town to steal yes steal and take your tomatoes,your potatoes,corn,and other food you’ve grown and of coarse the chickens too ! While everyone is scrambling around there would probably be a foreign troop build up off each coast line and an air assault most likely begin. Remember , if someone were to do something like take out the grid, it’s not going to be because they wanna set back and watch how we respond figuring out how to get by in eighteenth century living conditions again , they’re gonna do it to knock out our ability to regroup and fight an enemy invasion.

        • Bubba – yes, you’re right. They will eventually come to the sticks.

          In reply to them invading our land we will present the sad and unfortunate other side of the equation:


          You get the picture. I don’t want to do it, but I will – so will many others. Between family and those that ignored the blatant obvious warnings that have been going on for at least FIVE years now I’ll be dropping folks (sadly).

          Sorry to say but that’s the way it is.

          • “12ga

            I’m on a math kick here. What about 50 cal 20mm, 75mm 105mm, 122mm, 132mm, 150mm etc? Like what if theirs is bigger than yours?

            Just sayin’.

            • Sounds like run-n-hide time!

            • Ok, ya got me!! 🙂

          • I don’t think I could adequately protect my home 24/7 by myself so built a retreat in a mountain holler of about a dozen homes that can be closed to vehicles by controlling one bridge. In addition to gate guards with a warning siren (and radios) we’ll take the batteries and horns out of cars and every home will have an alert with a rotation schedule to swap out the batteries for recharged ones.

            I come up with this after seeing the Amish do it with a bell at the end of the movie Witness. When they bell rand everyone knew to come running.

            • must be nice to have that kind of money…

        • @ Bubba and Really???

          Ordinarily, I am the most mild mannered of men. Unlike many of the people here, I didn’t grow up hunting or living in the mountains or keeping myself alive by eating tree bark and bugs or whatever. I’m not Rambo or Bruce Lee or Walker Texas ranger. I’m a balding, four eyed, computer nerd who managed to escape from the blue state gulag where I spent my entire life teaching teenagers.

          That much being said, I will END the sonofbitch who tries to steal so much as a potato from me. No, I’m not kidding

          • son of sam “I will END the sonofbitch who tries to steal so much as a potato from me. No, I’m not kidding”

            + 100 , I believe ya !

          • Nothing wrong with that! I’m happily married to a man just like you. Defend your castle, simple as that! 🙂

        • No they won’t.

          The people you fear most, our fellow citizens, are prisoners of their own illiteracy. They, in general, are trapped in an area of several blocks because they can’t read street signs or maps. If you’re outside their ‘area of operations’ then by definition you are ‘safe’. From ‘them’, you will of course have to deal with yourself….

      11. good piece over on Survivalblog this morning on seed saving,,
        fits in nicely with SHTF

        • @ kulafarmer
          I printed it out, thanks for the tip.

      12. Posts (albeit waiting in moderation land) keep disappearing until after I post again, then there is a duplicate?

        Anyone on here real knowledgable in regards to generators, power and led lighting. Any or all three.


        • I have detailed files. 🙂

          Have posted much on this before and should probably post it again. Not posting my email here, but MAC should have it…maybe he can message you personally?


          • As Mac has mine, not the one I posted below, but my normal everyday email and he is more than welcome to message it to you or vice versa.

        • I can help with portable gen.

          • @Socrates and McDave,
            I posted up above my questions and appreciate any help you can give.

            And I don’t care about the email I post here. It is only there for reasons like giving original contact and is not my everyday email, which I ususally give out later off line.

            [email protected]

            I have a question for you too, feel free to email me.

            Faith of the Fallen,
            Same goes for you.

            Thanks gents

          • @ Mcdave
            how far down with metal rod do you have to go to have a true grounding on a portable gen?

            • 3Ft or 900mm if you can get it.

            • @ Mcdave
              My grounding rod for my generator is 5/8″ thick and ten feet long. And it sucked pounding thru rock and clay here in the ozarks. I use #4 grounding wire to attach my 50 amp generator and #6 wire for my 30 amp generator. Hope this helps.

            • Depends on soil type.

        • BJ..I am sort of SonofSam’s mother.
          I don’t know much either.
          But, for lighting, I have little LED flashlights from Tractor Supply that use 3 AAA batteries and last a long time.
          I used them for LED window candles at Christmas, and never replaced even one battery for 4 weeks.
          I have a solar battery charger and a shoe box FULL of batteries.
          So, I am good for a long time with these little LED flashlights.
          Don’t waste your money on those solar yard lights.
          Go for the ones from Tractor Supply—one will light up a room well, but two will let you cook or read.

          I just bought the black one/not a set like in the picture.

          For the fridge—don’t need one–got instant milk and canned butter and lots of rice and canned goods. Well, we’re good for a few years.
          No, I will NOT be answering the doors.

          • Thanks JJ,
            Your sort of the mom of the SonofSam here on these boards?

            Thanks, but I am thinking about lighting along the lines of led bulbs or more preferrably, led lights on a stringer to put up along the edge of the ceiling for low cost (use less power) adn not too bright lighting

      13. Ironic how I posted this just yesterday.

        The risks of EMP, GMD attacks on infrastructure

        Published 18 March 2014

        The effects of an electromagnetic pulse (EMP) attack in the form of high-altitude nuclear weapons and geomagnetic disturbances (GMD) from coronal mass ejections have been studies by government and private organizations. The similar consequences of both can be devastating. As much as 90 percent of the U.S. population may not survive a “grid-down” environment lasting a year or more — and the National Academy of Sciences projected a 4 to 10 year recovery period for a “severe” event affecting a large regional expanse.

        Even scarier is the fact that former head of DHS Janet Napolitano stated back in August 27th 2013:

        “Our country will, at some point, face a major cyber event that will have a serious effect on our lives, our economy and the everyday functioning of our society,” Napolitano said. “While we have built systems, protections and a framework to identify attacks and intrusions, share information with the private sector and across government, and develop plans and capabilities to mitigate the damage, more must be done, and quickly.”

        Napolitano spoke at length about the need to prepare for a downed power grid caused by hackers. The vulnerable electrical grid system in the United States is also ill-prepared for a direct hit by a solar flare (CME) or an EMP attack. As previously reported by Off The Grid News, the power grid achieved a D+ rating by the American Society of Civil Engineers.

        • Agreed.

          Honestly though, I’m quite surprised we haven’t been hit with something yet, even on a regional basis.

          • Normalcy bias,,,

            That could never happen here!

        • And guess who the hackers will be!!!

      14. Well, based on some of the comment ratings I believe we have a group that loves that gubberment teat and just can’t live without it!!!

        Take it down, take it ALL down!

      15. The power grids WILL go down. The only question is how: EMP, physical attacks, hackers, or hyperinflation.

        You need ways to heat your home and cook your food. Guns and ammo. Food and water. 5 gallon buckets to use as toilets. We have snap on toilet seats and kitty litter to cover the smell.

        We live in a small town. I don’t plan on going outside except to dump garbage and sewage at 3 AM. Some nights won’t be dark enough depending on cloud cover and phases of the moon. I’m concerned about leaving footprints in the snow. You don’t want to dump too close to your house but long walks aren’t safe either.

        We have plywood and tar paper to put over windows from the inside. You don’t want light to show outside.

        • Buy a solar oven folks, or make one. 🙂

        • You will be surprised with the resiliency of the ‘system’. We have faced down, and prevailed in the face of, far more dire threats. Never bet against America, for all of our flaws, we always manage to ‘get our shit together’ and prevail. No matter what the challenge is.

        • Honest question…what happens when someone or more persons finally get around to investigating your place?…your plan as I understand it is to basicly hide in place…stay out of sight to the point of no body even knowing you survived or still live there…what if they bang on your door and no one answers so they think its abandoned property and they need stuff…cause they will come around sooner or later and they may not know youre even there or they might…

      16. Why give some idiot a blueprint on where to commit mayhem?

        Actually I take the 18 months with a grain of salt.

      17. I think the utility companies should take some of their profits and make improvements to the grid. I know Obama care, executives salaries and retirement packages come before maintaining the power grid, but if it collapses they generate no revenues. Some will adapt and some will not. Those that do not will became desperate.

        • Deregulation of the electric utilities created a problem as the generation end was the profit maker that funded upgrades on the distribution side. The IPP (Independent Power Producers) cut into that market quite heavy. The distribution side had a lot of “fat” in excess carrying capacity left over from the days of 100% utility control with cost plus agreements in their service areas. That “fat” has been significantly reduced over the last few decades and with it the reliability that came with it.

          Its my belief that water and electric utilities are far too vital to be left at the mercy of the market. I would rather pay a bit too much to ensure their reliability. As John Glenn (or Allen Shepard) said when entering orbit that it wasn’t comfortable to think that the heat shield was manufactured by the lowest bidder.

      18. “An internal investigation ordered by Brennan found that Jonathan Bank “had created an abusive and hostile work environment that put a crucial division in disarray.””

        Cia pukes whining about a hostile work environment… can’t make this shit up. I don’t know whether to laugh or not…….I cannot buy that these criminal pukes are crying about a hostile work environmnet??

        • let me tell you something

          one jerk

          if he is in a high enough position

          can DESTROY an organization or company in very short order

          I’ve seen it happen

          the damage even one idiot can do is phenomenal

          • Why am I a jerk?

            • Yup

      19. Keep hoping for a shtf scenario… You really don’t have any idea what it would be like. Prep, train, and be ready, but don’t wish for it. You might think you are ready for it, but when you are facing the reality, you will wish for the “good ole days” (now). Ask Selco if he liked being in Yugo during the war. It won’t be fun except for psychos…

      20. well, i dont like a lot about living in texas. heat, himidity, mosquitos, rednecks, people that think theyre cowboys that never touched a horse; but having your on grid isnt one of them.

        if that really happened, i’d think texas would have it up within a month.

        now, a lot of people will riot, starve and die before that can happen because 99% of people cant make it a week without things working as expected; but just like having to take medicines at 40 because you ate crap for 40 years; if youre not prepared for power outages; you’ll have to accept the consequences.

      21. @.02 & Them Guys,
        Is the Communist Bolshevik Jews that you reference?

        “If the oligarchs knew their Russian history, they would not think about laying down their arms. Former Russian officers, in Moscow, were told by the Bolshevik revolutionaries to turn in their guns and they would be left alone during the Red Revolution. All of the officers who did so, were executed on the spot. This is a consistent theme in world history with regard to gun confiscation (are you listening residents of America?). If the oligarchs decided to fight a guerrilla war similar to the Mujahedeen (al CIA-aeda) did in Afghanistan, the Russian consolidation of its holdings in Ukraine, particularly it natural gas shipments through the country would be imperiled with nearly 6-8 weeks of winter left in Europe. This insurgency force is the ONLY hope that Obama has in mounting any kind of meaningful resistance”

        • “This insurgency force is the ONLY hope that Obama has in mounting any kind of meaningful resistance”. Original thought doesn’t appear to be among you “ASS”-ets. Obama is an illusion and not interested in the protection or defense of the USA. Go back to school “Blow Job”!

          Obama is doing his assigned job to perfection.

          • I posted that merely for the first 3 sentences of quote in reference to what 02 and Them Guys have been referencing. Not that I disagree with you on bo, but it really had nothing to do with bo.
            But maybe you totally missed the first two lines of the post moose 😉

      22. For sure it will be an aggravation but I do not believe it will happen nation wide.

        I don’t think our grid is centralized, so a part could be damaged but there would be parts that would work.

        Nevertheless it is still worthy to have a good power inverter and a lot of rechargeable batteries.

      23. First time posting here or on any other prepper, survial, and what some would call “conspiracy site”… and I enjoy this crowd. Felt like it was time and I’ve been reading for awhile now. Anyways…

        The average person doesn’t have any kind of understanding how these systems work. I’ve spent a few years doing various work around them and I only have a “don’t touch a damn thing” understanding of how these substations work… and i’ve been above or near power lines in my previous experiences but not on or willingly near them. I’ve seen what can happen when things go wrong… but that’s another story.
        That being said… almost every person on the planet knows how to cause destruction. Throw a rock and you can break a pane of glass of bash your NWO foe… to each his own. I’m not saying some good old boys went out with their hunting rifles and plinked at a power station for fun but I wouldn’t put it past the govt to stage such a thing.
        Life would suck for myself if the power grid went down for a couple years but anything more than that and I would probably run out of insulin… that just being the cards I was dealt with at a young age.
        We spend all this damn money in our country and don’t have a giant warehouse somewhere full of extra parts and shit to fix something like this?
        WTF America? Go and wake up your local sheeple if and when applicable.

        • Rede2lead, welcome aboard, and you’ve come to the right place. You’ll be in the best of company here.

        • @rede2lead
          you just made the list…
          just messing with you. welcome aboard. I think now is the time to help each other out as much as possible with ideas, scenarios, or whatever possible situations that may occur. some smart folks here, even if I don’t agree with them on every detail. as for the insulin, I’d ask around for natural remedies / herbs that you could start growing now.

          • Thanks for the warm welcome… kinda surprised not to see a red thumb or two from a grammar nazi for not proof reading my first post here but I’m sure in due time I will garner quite a few as disagreements can and will indeed occur. That’s just life and I’ve got the scars to prove it.

            I have looked around online (that or a library are my main sources of research) and read things about okra in a glass of water and things about Jerusalem artichoke and one I am set up here in my new location I will attempt a few experiments…

            Just moved from within 20 miles of the biggest naval base in the world to the Denver area and I love it here so far.

            Same nuclear threat regardless though. haha

            • We don’t worry about grammar here, it’s the thought that counts. I’ve learned tons from these guys and gals, so enjoy learning and don’t forget to read the archives! Tons of info in there. Welcome to the club! 🙂

        • @ r2l please read about DMSO, it has been around for decades, get it at tractor supply.

      24. I don’t quite understand how one person indicated the nuclear reactors would all go ballistic because no way to cool the rods and yet no one in the government has indicated this would be an issue…… Just that we would lose 90 percent of our population for other reasons. If power is out for several months and all the reactors have an issue and blow up, there is no hope for anyone including the government. Seems to me there must be some type of fail safe for the reactors so they are not an issue in a total power loss situation. At least I hope that is the case.

        I hope it never happens, but if the power ever does go out for an estended period of time, I would not expect that we would all be outside having pleasant conversations with each other for very long. We will all be working 16 hrs a day to survive, and on edge when sleeping because of the physical security threats. It will be very daunting for even the best prepared person or group.

      25. The article mentioned DNS (the domain name system). If DNS is ever down, you need to know the numbers for your favorite sites. There are various websites where you can look up the numbers for websites. For example, the numbers for this site are:

        After you have the numbers, use each instead of the site name to go to the site. Make new bookmarks using the numbers instead of the site name.

        I have done that for a number of sites. Of course I have backups of those sites also. I use a free program called “HTTrack Website Copier.” Black Widow is an excellent program also, but it costs.

      26. Honestly, I find this article to be fear mongering…at best.

        If 9 substations are taken down, along with a major transformer manufacturer…then we would be in trouble? It would have to be a well coordinated operation to succeed.

        Furthermore, I believe that the “terrorist attack” on the substation that occurred in 2013 was in fact, a black flag event. I wonder how many politicians would stand to gain financially from a major upgrade to the power grid?

        Statistically, you’re 8 times more likely to die at the hands of an abusive police officer than you are from a terrorism related event.

        This fear mongering is based upon nothing. We know that September 11, 2001 was most likely a black flag event. Conspiracy theories aside, their is *a lot* of unanswered questions that need answering. Aside from that, how many other real terrorism events have occurred?

        The United States is on a collision course with history. Its empire, power and influence is slowly fading. Ukraine is really a proxy over gas pipeline control. The United States has no business in that affair…and that brings me to the point of all this… If the United States stayed out of world affairs and focused on her troubles at home, their would be little worry over terrorism or invasion. Military bases everywhere, drone attacks on sovereign countries, ridiculous wars over oil \ heroine \ rare earth minerals…all while the people back home are oblivious and wave their flags in patriotic support.

        I love the United States…its a beautiful nation, but its become corrupt and broken. Her people are generally good, though they’ve become complacent, lazy and programmed with propaganda.

        If you look back over the past 50 years…its been one boogy man after another. The government creates fear to keep the population under its control. Soviets \ communism, war on drugs, terrorism…etc. I struggle with the notion that we are truly free…this nation has become enslaved to bankers and corrupt politicians. I wonder when the nation will rise up and claim its birthright once more…

        Thank you for letting me share. God bless!

        Mike, from Canada.

        • Well, Michael; I believe you have a home here.
          I, and I hope most here, share your ideas.
          But, the ones that matter ain’t listening.
          It’s a big club, and we ain’t in it.

        • @Mike in Canada…..think you ‘hit the nail on the head’ and totally agree….we have NO business in other Countries business!

          A bit off topic….did you hear about(or see) anything about the ‘fire balls’ that appeared in the Maritimes in the past 2 days? Just heard on MSM that they both landed at the exact same time, but 1 day apart? That is a bit ‘strange’…take care, CC

          • No, I haven’t heard anything but I’ll do some research. Probably some space junk or spent rockets burning up…I’m guessing.

            What part of Canada are you in? I’m in central Manitoba.

            • @Mike in Canada….for some reason, I thouhgt you were in the Maritimes….I’m here in Central Ontario..take care, CC

      27. Bullshit Bullshit Bullshit!!! So damn tired of the terror mongering going on. Enough already!!!!!!!!!!

      28. If and when there is a grid down situation, it will be
        controlled by tptb. Does anyone here actually think
        they are going to just let us “figure it out” on our own?
        It is highly likely that Russian, UN or NATO troops will
        be mixing it up on the streets in America and to confiscate
        our weapons. People, get ready for a false flag event that
        will pull at your heart strings, an event so horrible that it
        won’t seem like a false flag. It will be engineered to try
        our emotions, our patriotism. Engineered to cause some sort
        of reaction or panic, possibly followed by a grid down in order
        to stop comminication like this site, leaving people unable
        to discuss what is happening. Honestly, I could be wrong but I
        think a Red Dawn scenario is not at all far fetched.
        My forefathers blood cries to me
        from the ground, I’m locked and loaded.

        • Kentucky??

      29. We’re toast.

      30. What a dumb thing to be showing and telling people. Here is where I’m coming from!
        Show some “want a be” where to hit. If they didn’t say anything (or show what to hit) they would have to do figure out everything for them self. This is like showing someone where the dam has a weak spot and then telling them it would take 4LBs of C4 to get it to got the dam to blow.
        On the other hand if it only takes out the power for the Zombies and Leaches. The would be great!

        • Kinda like how the alphabet agencies supply and then tell the general pouplation that we need them in order to “prevent” the potential attacks they created?

          The govt and MSM wouldn’t dare…

      31. Network with others, guard the house, and read.

      32. One realistic cause of a “grid failure” is simply people’s inability to “pay” for electricity. Often we think we need an EMP or terrorist sabotage to effect this change, but simply put, if hyperinflation makes it so you can’t buy it, you won’t get it.

        Don’t rule out all possibilities.

        • In other words, energy prices will necessarily rise????? If I took your post correctly, this is what will happen. And I agree.

      33. Off Topic…

        The Changing Face of the American Worker

        “More than half of those who make $9 or less an hour are 25 or older, while the proportion who are teenagers has declined to just 17 percent from 28 percent in 2000, after adjusting for inflation…”

        “Today’s low-wage workers are also more educated, with 41 percent having at least some college, up from 29 percent in 2000.”

        “Minimum-wage and low-wage workers are older and more educated than 10 or 20 years ago, yet they’re making wages below where they were 10 or 20 years ago after inflation…”

        “If you look back several decades, workers near the minimum wage were more likely to be teenagers — that’s the stereotype people had. It’s definitely not accurate anymore.”

      34. OFF TOPIC:

        Today I go to cash my tax return check at Wells Fargo Bank. They will not cash it. They told me that they now need a paper trail on all tax refund checks. So they gave me a deposit slip to deposit the check and then a withdraw slip to then withdraw the funds. Now tell me what sense did all of that make.

        What….ppl are not allowed to just cash their refund checks. Who is it that needs to know what I did or didn’t do with my tax return! What bullshit!

        • GET A NEW BANK!!!

      35. Off Topic…

        Health insurance premiums rising faster than eight years before Obamacare COMBINED

        “The individual market for health insurance has seen premiums rise by 39 percent since February 2013.”

        “Families have been hit even harder with an average increase of 56 percent over the same period — average premiums are now $663 per family, over $426 last year.”

        • Remember this…
          March 15, 2010 – Obama speech in Strongsville, Ohio.
          OBAMA: How many people are getting’ insurance through their jobs right now? Raise your hands? A’right. Well, a lot of those folks, your employer, it’s estimated,
          would see premiums FALL by as much as 3,000%, which means they could give you a RAISE!

          Think the current price hikes are bad, just wait until NEXT year…

          Think the insurance premiums are bad now, just wait until next year…

          Health insurance premiums are set to skyrocket

          “Insurance industry officials state that Obamacare health insurance premiums are set to skyrocket; some people will find theirs doubling or tripling over the next several months leading up to the November 4th midterm elections.”

          • Ky Mom… good reason why single payer healthcare is the way to cut out the middlemen to cut prices drastically and cover all legal Americans. The richest nation on the planet can’t cover their citizen’s healthcare. Baloney! The words social benefits got you upset? How about all those poor down in Venezuela, whose actions elected a social government, a nationalistic people first agenda that nationalized Venezuela’s oil and improved the poor’s lives. NWO aint having that. Same thing we are facing here in America, only the poor here are victim’s of unrelenting propaganda and small handouts. Social means of, by and for the people, not some of the people, all the people.

      36. So?

        Short term fix: deploy drone aircraft 24-7 around all these sites. Armed to the teeth.

        Forget partolling our own citizens with these things… you’ve apparently got more pressing concerns.

        Long term fix: I have no idea but the short term should hold for a while… that gives us plenty of time to figure out the long term fix.

      37. Noting that warnings of ‘collapse’ are often seen to be fringe or controversial, the study attempts to make sense of compelling historical data showing that “the process of rise-and-collapse is actually a recurrent cycle found throughout history.” Cases of severe civilisational disruption due to “precipitous collapse – often lasting centuries – have been quite common.”

        Duh, Yogi…

      38. In all honesty I’d rather see the power grid stay up and running. But its like getting threatened with nukes, can’t do nothing about it so why fret. I got enough water stored and keep it fresh. My family and I would be OK until the marauders showed up and then the fur would fly. Other than that, I’ll keep drinking cold beer, taking hot showers, and keep at it till I get it right.

      39. If the grid was down 18 days it would devastate the economy. Down for a year and a half would be so difficult for businesses to run all over the place. There are many places that are not dependent on the grid and can generate their own electricity from numerous sources such as coal, hydro, solar, wind, etc. It would be these little enclaves that they call urban and suburbia that would be in deep trouble. Rural areas are again safer locations. If someone can get away from the densely populated areas this can make all the difference. Large urban areas are also terrorist and military targets.

        • A natural gas line crosses my property from the well on the farm next door. I use propane for convenience now, but wonder what size saddle value I would need to tap that after such an emergency. Hard to believe, but The Skinner Company sells them for gas lines up to 12″ if you have the scones. My gas space heater is already duel fuel and I have the parts to covert the old generator. Some other appliances can be converted from propane to natural gas just by drilling out the jets.

          • Most gas appliances are designed for natural gas and an orifice is installed to reduce the gas flow to convert it to propane which has 2.5 the BTU content per SCF as NG.

            Having supervised a 60 MW power plant we had no electrical equipment damage after several instances on the utility side such as lightening strikes and a main power line going to ground dragging our cycles to 45 before we divorced automatically from the utility. Voltage goes low or high or cycles and breakers open protecting the system. I don’t but the 18 months of stone age.

      40. The Pentagon Spent $2.7 Billion on an Intelligence System That Doesn’t Work

        and if ya think that is bad
        did ya hear about the guy who used his food stamp money
        to buy a pack of cigs for $5
        outraged I tell you
        I’m just outraged

        (sarcasm off)

        wanna know who the REAL parasites are ???

        just a short list

        ” Raytheon, Northrop Grumman, Lockheed Martin, and General Dynamics — all the major defense contractors”

        • That’s nothing, Satori. On 9/11/2001, the Pentagon had a billion dollar defense system that malfunctioned!!!! 🙂

      41. Just In Time: When the Trucks Stop, America Will Stop (With Immediate and Catastrophic Consequences)

        I really think people don’t understand just how terrible it will be

        just a few examples medically speaking

        need kidney dialysis ?
        machines need electricity to run,the chemicals need to be constantly replaced,if the factory that makes them can’t
        yer dead within 2 weeks ,some sooner

        have a heart attack and need a stent placed ?
        right now this is actually a pretty simple procedure
        no electricity,no stent ,DEATH

        need a ventilator ?

        a SUBSTANTIAL portion of the public are on meds of various sorts
        blood pressure,immune suppressants,ANTIBIOTICS
        no electricity and they aren’t manufactured
        and even if they were
        distribution becomes a MAJOR problem
        if ya got connections and cash not so much maybe ?

        hospitals are getting rid of paper charts
        virtually everything is done on computer
        this is a HUGE mistake
        when the system goes down
        God help you
        we’re about 99% dependent on computers now in the medical field

        without electricity
        no computers
        bar codes useless for tracking,ordering ,shipping the millions of products that are moved daily

        hospitals would only be able to provide the most rudimentary care

        break a bone?
        they might be able to splint it
        but what about a compound fracture that needs surgery?

        what about antibiotics to prevent an abscessed tooth from making you go septic?

        the list is endless when it comes to medicine
        yer herbs ain’t gonna save you !

        • Glad you said it, Satori.

          It’s the elephant in the
          room nobody wants to talk

        • You are right–I have started ordering Hawthorne for Gene’s blood pressure. Some say it’s the next best thing to pills.
          Stocking fish antibiotics also.

      42. Why lose sleep over 90% of people dying within a year due to power outage related issues? 100% will eventually die–the 90% would just be departing a bit ahead of schedule. Same outcome, just a bit sooner.

      43. Might actually get my boat done lol

      44. Why would the public needs to know how many substations will take to loose power for 18 Months… Why don’t we publish how to disable our defense system or how and where to make an EMP go off or exactly which water stations to poisoned to make our water undrinkable. COMMON SENSE

      45. and lets not forget that the sun is a MAJOR threat to the grid

        Fierce solar magnetic storm barely missed Earth in 2012

        ““Had it hit Earth, it probably would have been like the big one in 1859, but the effect today, with our modern technologies, would have been tremendous,” said Luhmann, who is part of the STEREO (Solar Terrestrial Relations Observatory) team and based at UC Berkeley’s Space Sciences Laboratory.”

        we’re playing Russian roulette
        and that is a game that you ALWAYS lose in the end

      46. Now, hear this!
        The new Utah Data Center, a massive spy complex, requires 1.7 million gallons of water every single day to operate. That’s equivalent to more than 100 in-ground backyard swimming pools – every day.

        That water is scheduled to be provided by the Jordan Valley River Conservancy District, which is “a political subdivision of the state of Utah.”

        Because of this, a state law can be passed banning this partnership. In short, they can turn the water off.

        The 4th Amendment Protection Act is a state-level bill which bans your state and local governments from helping the NSA – in any way – carry out its spying program.

      47. Mac
        why doesn’t this site recognize me when I get on? It has always until now.

        • I am honestly not sure, though I see that you did not use an email (real or fake) on this particular comment… try using the same email addy and it should pick you up in a few posts.

          User logins coming soon!

          • Thanks so much.

      48. Anonymous… I told my VA doctor internet sites had possible cures for diabetes. He told me it can never be cured and once on insulin, you will be on it for the balance of your life. I don’t believe it. There probably is a natural remedy. I still take multiple shots daily after 16 years. Blood sugar is hard to control and I have yet to get a handle on it after all these years. Millions of diabetics means beaucoup bucks for big pharma.

        • I don’t believe it either. I was diagnosed with stage 2 diabetes 4 years ago. Recently, I I move and hence went to a different doctor. AFter some tests, he said that he would have never suspected that I had stage 2 diabetes. I took some natural mediations (cin-sil) and diabetes has disappeared from my life.

      49. Heard a good one today; The LADY OF JUSTIC is wearing a blind fold because; she cannot stand to see whale dung (LAWYERS) make back room deals for some. So the words JUSTIC FOR ALL should be changed to JUSTIC FOR SOME.

        NOMI should we give!

      50. Took a look at that uniformative propaganda piece from Yahoo news article posted by SixPack up there:

        “Kerry angered by Israeli minister’s sharp criticism”

        No reflection whatsoever on 6P for posting the article. Plenty of reflection on Yahoo for cutting and pasting undocumented quote snippets here and there in the article in order to grind their editorial axe. Undocumented, in that I had to spend my valuable time tracking down the source, when Yahoo could have given the reader a link.

        Of course, Yahoo doesn’t want the reader to find out the totality of what ol’ Moshe Ya’alon says, since it may not fit the tenor of the pity party that Lurch… I mean Kerry… is having about that there “strong criticism”.

        Israel is plenty worried about Iran, who is working assiduously to the destruction of Israel, despite Lurch’s (dammit, there I go again) chest thumping about how Moshe’s comments are falsely characterized as “inconsistent with strong ties between Israel and the United States”, per Jen Psaki, chief propaganist for the State Department.

        (The same Psaki who, of the coup in Eqypt, assured the US citizenry, that State had made a “determination that we do not have to make a determination” on that coup.

        But I digress.)

        Israel is plenty concerned about the obvious weakness that the US has been demonstrating in world affairs pretty much ever since the Obama administration took office. True, Bush initially put us in these weak positions by choosing elective war on false premises, and failing to prosecute these wars even by his own standards. Bush also saw fit to encourage the financial meltdown by pretending to believe in the morality of greed that Wall Street prefers.

        But it is Mr. Obama’s preference to improving his golf game to the detriment of the country and the world which has made these matters worse, not better. Mr. Obama’s team, largely chosen for political fealty at the expense of pragmatic ability, is bumbling along, and it is unfortunately not surprising that they appear weak at every international moment, and intelligent thugs know how to take advantage of that.

        The Israeli press sees Moshe’s rants as endangering their security:

        “A danger named Ya’alon

        In continuing his unbridled attacks on the United States, Defense Minister Moshe Ya’alon is endangering Israel’s security.”

        But this is a falsehood too. Moshe is calling them like he sees them:

        “If your image is feebleness, it doesn’t pay in the world… I hope the United States comes to its senses. If it doesn’t, it will challenge the world order and the United States is the one that will suffer.”

        His language might be rough for sensitive, but politically correct US adminsitration ears. I don’t want us (the US) to engage in a pre-emptive nuclear strike on Iran, even tho that might be Israel’s preference. They are in the awkward position of worrying about Iran’s clearly possible pre-emptive nuclear strike on them.

        I got no answers. Every time you turn around, the Obama administration is seeing to their own care and feeding, while the rest of the world, ulitmately including the US, crumbles at the feet of institutional brutality and organized violence. The Republicans are happy to cooperate with Obama, particularly if you’re not already a millionaire.

        About all a Buddheo-Christian can do is pray for peace.

        • Hey, thanks for the enhanced info—sometimes I can learn more from a SHTFplan comment than I can from the article.

      51. At this point, even NASA is warning that “civilization could collapse”…
        -By comparison with this country at the time of my childhood and young-adult years, civilization has already collapsed. Why should I care about the warnings now? I have already learned how to live in a foreign culture and can teach the young ones in my family how to survive while working to bring civilization back to our world. It is too late to prepare for the collapse, it has already happened. (It has ALWAYS already happened.) You young people on here will see the same thing in your lives, just as my parents and grandparents did in theirs’.
        . Sometimes things get worse slowly (known as progress) sometimes they get better (not generally recognized at all- or we take the credit ourselves). Sometimes they worse fast (a “collapse”).

        Nothing stays the same. It is nice to have a bastion and safe haven to rest from the flood, it is important to have a good boat to sail the tides of change, but you better learn to swim too. Individually, you can’t hold it back, the best you can do is learn to influence its direction. And, maybe, survive the rapids.
        I think I feel the current picking up speed again.

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