Global Markets Pummeled: “The Writing Has Been On the Wall for a While”

by | Oct 23, 2012 | Headline News | 311 comments

Do you LOVE America?


    When global freight transportation collapsed to record lows in July of this year most analysts wrote it off as an anomaly. In September, when one of the largest retail shipping companies in the world warned of weakening global economic conditions and announced they would slash thousands of jobs, financial markets barely even noticed.

    Last week, Google, the largest small business advertising platform on the internet, announced a 21% decline in revenue per share year-over-year, leading to such a rapid decline in their stock price that stock exchange circuit breakers were forced to halt trading. Still, not many financial pundits noticed and investors didn’t seem too worried about the overall picture.

    But this morning, investors in the U.S., Europe, and Asia can’t ignore the facts.

    In a veritable who’s who of global behemoths, companies with operations across the globe and in many different industries are showing severe strain in a recessionary economic environment that can no longer be papered over.

    The weak earnings and dwindling revenues have led to cost-cutting that will add to lost jobs in order to protect profits.

    The writing has been on the wall for a while,” said Peter Jankovskis, co-chief investment officer at OakBrook Investments LLC in Lisle, Illinois.

    “It’s a very tough environment, tough to generate new revenues, so it shouldn’t be too big a surprise we are having people miss on that front.

    With earnings for over 30 S&P companies to be released throughout the day, here’s where we stand as of right now:

    • DuPont, one of the world’s largest chemical companies and manufacturers of polymers like nylon and kevlar,  reported a lower-than-expected quarterly profit and announced 1,500 job cuts to offset falling sales around the world.
    •  Aerospace and construction firm United Technologies Corp reported a 3.3 percent decline in third-quarter earnings and cut its sales forecast for the year, citing weak demand from airlines and an uncertain economy.
    • 3M Co, which makes Scotch tape, Post Its and thousands of other products for retail and commercial use, cut its profit forecast for the full year as acquisition costs and a strengthening dollar hurt margins.
    • FedEx competitor, United Parcel Service Inc,reported a lower quarterly profit on Tuesday, citing slowing global trade, and said there was “some uncertainty” about the strength of the coming holiday season.
    • RadioShack Corp., swung to a third-quarter a net loss. “Overall, our business performed below expectations,” said Dorvin Lively, interim CEO of the electronics retailer.

    Executives at these and other firms have advised that they will be taking extreme cost cutting measures in the foreseeable future, indicating that these savings will be achieved, in part, by further job cuts in the hopes that the moves will boost profits.

    They may boost profits temporarily, but the vicious death spiral that is created by such action will lead to further declines in the future. As more Americans lose jobs they are forced to spend less, often becoming dependent on government support to survive. This leads to further declines in revenues and profits, requiring even more jobs cuts. And the downward spiral subsequently continues, wiping out thousands of jobs, hundreds of billions of dollars in wealth, and adding more pressure to social safety nets that are already bursting at the seams.

    Given what has transpired over the course of the last several years, there is a strong likelihood that the US Government and Federal Reserve will move to prevent a stock market collapse through a variety of means, including the injection of billions of dollars in cash via the infamous Plunge Protection Team.

    Whether they can stop a mass sell-off and prevent panic is of no consequence, really. What matters is that all the facts point to a significant decline in global economic output and consumption, hundreds of thousands of job losses across G-20 nations, and obscene levels of unserviceable debt in the United States and Europe.

    The pain is coming, whether we want to believe it or not.

    As Mike Rivero humorously suggested at What Really Happened?, it may be time to engage in some alternate investment strategies if you haven’t done so already:

    As we noted previously, such a collapse and continued unrecoverable degradation of the system may be so severe that it could have far-reaching effects – and not just for a few months or years:

    If this credit bubble pops the depression is going to be so severe that I honestly don’t think our civilization can survive it.

    Readers often comment or email us to ask when such a collapse may happen.

    Look around folks, it’s happening right here and now.

    These are the worst conditions in at least 50 years:

    We haven’t seen these highs since the mid ’60s. That survey indicates the poverty level has grown from 15.1% to as high as 15.7% [since 2010], andit’s spreading at record levels to many socio-economic groups from unemployed workers, suburban families, to the poorest poor.

    …More discouraged workers are giving up on the job market and unemployment aid is running out. They found that the suburbs are seeing an increase in poverty

    Those experts surveyed also predict poverty will remain above the pre-recession level of 12.5% for many more years.

    Americans from all walks of life – at least 100 million of them – are living through what can only be described as an economic depression, where jobs are scarce, wages are comparable to those of indentured servants, and no hope appears to be on the horizon.


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      1. Write on Max

        • The DOW is currently down 220+ points and the FOX Business Network is talking about the I-Pad Mini…OMG!

          Thankk Goodness…I was worried for a minute. Thank Goodness for the I-Pad to pull us out this mess.

          • Off Topic…

            FEMA Corps youth program draws “Hitler Youth” comparisons

            The “Dept. of Homeland Security has just graduated its first class of 231 Homeland Youth. Kids, aged 18-24 and recruited from the President’s AmeriCorp volunteers, they represent the first wave of DHS’s youth corps, designed specifically to create a full time, paid, standing army of FEMA Youth across the country.”

            “Unlike most local disaster response teams who are volunteers, training periodically and only showing up when there’s a disaster, the FEMA Corps will be a paid, full time, standing army of government youth.

            What is the US federal government preparing for? And why does it feel it needs an army of brainwashed youth, millions of guns, thousands of armored fighting vehicles and literally billions of rounds of ammunition, just to provide relief to the American people during a natural disaster?”


            • That’s a bit creepy. By the way does anyone know for sure just what our Homeland security is nowdays? What exactly does it encompass and/or what has it morphed into? Originaly it was organized to protect us from the bad guys, but now?

            • kymom you may of just found our timeline.
              He wants a standing army of how many? like 200k?
              Time to find out how many work for fema, dhs.
              Add in the youth troops.
              Get 200,000? Time to ghost out.
              Katrina was only a very small taste of what Mlaw is like.
              PPl vanishing in the middle of the night. ( true this does happen )
              Check points ( yes )
              When Mlaw is declared think of the us as a military jail. They can and will shoot you with little to almsot no provocation. You use force they will go a step further and use more force, you ramp up your force they will go a step further and ramp up theirs. That will continue until they go the one step further that you can not cover. When it comes to military strats I am very cold and would be by some peoples definition ruthless. This is why I do not believe in a single leader system. Small council is preferable. Give one person too much control and they all seem to loose control of themselves. I would be no better.

            • Mein Fuhrehr!

              I CAN WALK!!!!

          • The Ipad Mini might be very significant for American’s in the near future! Right now it’s made by Chinese, earning about 15 cents per hour.

            After our collapse it can be made by Americans. At about 10 cents per hour.

            • That’s hilarious and not funny at the same time.

          • the DOW is just correcting. it will go back up just watch…..The big players are controlling the market by buying puts and options and allowing their computers doing all the milisecond transactions….nothing to see here keep moving.

          • Over the past 5 years the DOW has made what looks like a huge head and shoulders reversal pattern, and we are now in the right shoulder heading down. Also the DOW has seen declining volume over the same time period. None of that is good, and I hope I’m wrong, but this could be the start of the end.

        • I am in the O & G business. We have been almost the last beacon of light in the current economy. I have been out of work for three weeks now. (my wife is still working for now)The oil and gas companies are doing nothing until they see the outcome of the election.
          I dont drill, I buy oil leases before they can drill. That tells me they are not starting any new projects. They are hunkering down. If he is re-elected, shut the lights out for the o & G business. Thank God we can still survive. Alot of folks are gonna be in deep doodoo.
          I dont like romney, but at least he will slow down the crash and give us a little more time to be ready.

          • Thats because the stock market dosent even come close to showing what the real economic picture is. The Stock Market will continue to ebb and flow as long as the big players have suckers who think that they can make some money from. Its almost like Las Vegas these days. Ilusion, smoke and mirrors hiding the reality and the house pockets all the cash.

          • My son in law works for a natural gas drilling company in PA (we live in MI). He gets paid a base salary plus bonuses as they are working. He hasnt received very many bonuses over the last few months and they dont expect that to change anytime soon.

            • Jim (another Jim),
              I know a few of us landmen that were working the ohio, PA area. They are all out of work and back down here in South Louisiana. We are self employed and work for several different oil companies. We dont count for the official unemployment statistics that they lie about every week. I hope this is passing, but it is starting to look like it is going to be a while.

            • My son in laws co. In nat. Gas just laid off.

            • Natural gas is a victim of it’s own success. The more obtained via fracking the more the price drops. A million BTUs went from $16 to less than $3. The supply is increasing far more than the demand due to a lack of infrastructure.

              If anyone would like to compare apples with apples of any fuel and oil here it is. Fuels are rated in FOEBs or Fuel Oil Equivalent Barrels. One FOEB is 6,250,000 BTUs. As an example natural gas at $3 per million BTUs is equal to a tad under $19 a BBL of oil.

            • No infrastructure?

              NO INFRASRUCTURE???!

              … I can convert my car to run on it in under 5 hours and for a total cost of under $1100. Myself. In my garage.

              And the .gov won’t let me.

              If we lack infrastructure it is by choice.

              Think of all the people you could employ, doing conversions, manufacturing conversion kits, converting gas station pumps…

          • Sorry, Bulldog, but I personally don’t want this crash slowed down. The farther we get along by debt-creation/-enslavement, by environmental degradation and by outright theft of real wealth by the hedge funders, the worse the final crash will be. It’s time to shut out the lights.

          • My daughter worked for an oil field water service and diesel repair company. She was laid off from her office manager job in June. Fortunately, they let her know it was coming and while she still had insurance she got all of her medical and dental needs taken care of. She went to working 3 part time jobs as a waitress and a cleaning lady. (She has a college degree) Last week she was contacted out of the blue by another oil field service company and will interview for a job this week. You better believe mom and I are praying for her to get the job. And last Friday her sister lost her job. She started hustling and looking for work on Saturday. Her first interview was this afternoon. Waiting to hear what happened. Mom and I are thinking about coming out of retirement and just stashing the cash in case the girls keep going through this. I started volunteering at a local food bank two weeks ago. The state allows us to keep food on the shelves for two years past the expiration date. It isn’t staying on the shelves long enough to expire. About all I can offer folks is a bag of groceries and a smile. I am VERY impressed with the generosity of others and how much stuff they give. They even donate the small bars of soap and bottles of shampoo from hotels for these needy folks. makes me smile. Only in America.

            • The food bank needs to have classes on growing food.

              Teach a person to fish and you feed them for life.

            • And beat a person with a fish and you get them to stop pestering you.

            • Fresh or frozen.

          • Regulations?
            I just finished a re-roof on a medium sized structure. Chatting with my labor sub ( I supply materials,machines, debris removal, etc.) about his workload lately and he related the following;
            ( by the way, all his employees followed what I felt were good practices.) He recentley finished a large roof that grossed a $17,000 profit. During the job, he was visited by OSHA. $9000 in fines. At the mandated hearing, had to provide ALL business records and taxes for the last 5 years.
            Construction has evolved into a cat and mouse game with the authorities. If they visit you, your getting fined. I’m all for safety, but they don’t show up as a service and advise a better way. They lurk, and pounce with fines. I know I’m one sided on this, but it’s one more thing making it hard to run a business in a down economy. And where does this fine money go???. And your considered an idiot if you propose inviting them to your jobsite to advise on best practices. Most big contractors pay or hire “safety” specialists, and that’s good, but little guys are getting hammered. I don’t want anyone hurt or killed, but this seems out of balance.

            • Rick–Try driving a semi in Kentucky–it depresses my dh so I am yelling all the time to get out!!!

            • In the end, when they have accomplished all semis leaving the roads, they will have no job.
              DH had over $2000 in fines last year; the judge dropped all fines..court cost $90??
              There are still decent men and women out there–but rarer every day.
              That fine would have put dh down for good.

            • When the bad guys did it it used to be called a shakedown.

        • This move in the stock market is only a correction. It is not a collapse. The sky is not falling. The market has actually crashed many, many times before but WE still use the dollar.

          It is not going to go away either. (yawn).

          • dk: Will the dollar be used after the BIG BOY on the block get his correction, because it is coming, and if no one thinks that it not coming,then step back and take a VERY LONG HARD LOOK AROUND. 911 was bad, but it is nothing as to what is coming. Thats just a dumb old hicks thoughts.

            • CH: Its hard to respond to your question because it is vague. I don’t understand. To what are you referring?

              Please be more specific.

          • DK:

            You’re right. The market goes up, suffers a correction, and then starts trending up again. It’ll be up tomorrow. Facebook released their earnings after hours and revenue beat expectations!(Translation: market rallies 150 tomorrow… If that’s the excuse they want to use…)

            And the dollar’s not going anywhere either. I’m seeing more and more of them every day thanks to Uncle Ben.


        • Only 63 Shopping Daze till Xmas! Be a good CONSUMER, and do your part, to keep the facade, I mean the economy booming! Don’t slack off now, tptb are depending on you to stay diverted! Spend like there’s no tomorrow, don’t bvelieve those awful conspiracy theorists! Nothing to see here. Move along…to the Mall…

      2. Nothing to see here. Move along. Everything’s fine.

        • Nothing to see here except the fall of Babylon in one hour, followed by the worst part of the Bible. That reminds me. I forgot to prep popcorn. BRB.

          • Gotta have popcorn for the show man! I’ve got three 6-gal buckets of it just in case!

            • Mac, save me some and we can watch the horror show together, I will bring 2 drinking helmets and 3-D glasses for best view.

              In Truth.

            • Hope that’s non-gmo popcorn or you may become part of the mutant zombies if you eat too much!

            • I’ll bring Sam Adams, light of course. Diesel is still $4/gal. How about you Tulsa? Nothing moves without it unless you count my mule and he doesn’t like you making fun of him. You’ll apoligise like I know you will.

            • Dang Mac, I thought I had a lot saved up, but I guess I am going to have to head to the store to stock up. Do you think they can hold this mess until the elections?

            • best grain corn for grinding cornmeal

            • We don’t need no steenking badges?

              I… hate myself for this. I truly do. Truly. But I think I’d rather go out in a mushroom cloud from an Iranian missile than watch our oil / coal / natgas industry get totally crippled.

              (Obviosuly I know Iran can’t nuke us… that was hyperbole).

              I don’t want to vote Romney. I don’t want to vote at all. Gah I can’t beleive I’m letting them BS me into this. BUt I don’t know what else to burn as fuel.

              Heh that was easy, wasn’t it?

              “We’re going to pull all your fuel stocks away from you unless you vote how we want…”

              “No please please Sir anything but that, I’ll be a good boy I promise…”




            • Watch out for the tropical oils the popcorn is popped in!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! SARCASM

            • MAC: Popcorn is one of the best food’s you can prep!(salt anyone). You SIR do a great service to the people out here, MANY THANKS!

            • Anyone know the true shelf life of cheetos?
              I’m always on the lookout for them in #10 cans with the 25 yr. life expectancy.
              I think that is a market that is being missed.

          • No popcorn??? really?? what are you thinking, man??

          • Your reference to popcorn is pretty funny. I’ve been helping a guy start to prep. I was over at his house on Friday and I saw he was online at a prepping site about to buy a super pail of popcorn. I told him he really needed to get the essentials first, like beans and rice. Half jokingly, he said popcorn was a necessity at HIS house and promptly bought it over my objection.

            Well… at least I know where the party will be!


            • The best theater popcorn salt ever at firehousepantrystoredotcom.
              I tested it–it IS theater popcorn.

            • @jayjay:

              Thanks! I’ll let him know.


        • I live in a rural farming town and I just heard on the radio that our state unemployment rate just ROSE to 10.9% because of seasonal work. Not long ago it was close to 14%. Prices are on the rise and 12oz packaging is the NEW POUND!

          Better heed the warning people!

          • Funny you should mention that…

            I see the same seasonal swings out here. The tourists have just about petered out for the season; most of the shops will go to a lighter schedule, most of the motels and hotels will reduce staff, and most of the restaurants will either close or go to reduced hours.

            Happens every year, and most of the seasonal workers are packing up now to go south.

            • This week I am in a little coastal town in SC. It is dead as a doornail. Of course the fish have been laid off as well. So, nobody’s catchin a thing.

          • Tina: 12 oz to the pound works for gold, this is just a precursor to a new gold standard. Everyone cheer! 🙂

      3. You’ll notice that cost cutting never includes their own salaries and bonuses. Also, the more people you fire, the more you won’t have customers to buy your products.

        I know some of you folks are against “spreading the wealth around,” but a few less corporate CEOs would mean that workers could get a living wage.

        • The shareholders and BOD control the CEOs. Many of those shareholders are union pension funds and they have a voice in running the company if they hold enough proxies. There are union executives who sit on some Boards of Directors.

          Small businesses have owner operators and are really sole proprietorships. If there is no management there, it will be because the business had to close. Today, many small businesses owners are not taking salaries so they can keep the doors open for the workers, for whom they feel responsible.

          With no sales, there are no jobs in production. It is not a case of *spreading the wealth around* vis-a-vis number of CEOs vs. number of workers. A lot of CEOs in some industries work for a reasonable base salary and get bonuses according to the quarterly bottom line. They are required to have *skin in the game*. On top of that, they are required to live in high COL areas. So, their salaries and bonuses ARE cut and in some places, like NYC, it is felt at the street level.

          It is a myth that executives control their own compensation. They do have contracts and if they enforce them,regardless of economic realities, it can bankrupt the company, but contracts are the basis of our system and w/o them, we have nothing at all, let alone jobs at the worker level.

          There is a limit to how much cost cutting can buck up the bottom line. Too many companies trying to juice their stock valuation by cutting labor just end up cutting their own throats because they can’t immediately increase production if orders do materialize. Too much governmental micro-management kills profitability and it is then better to shut down than continue to bleed capital.

          Corporate profits are faltering globally. Commodities, including metals and oil have fallen. QE3 juiced the stock market, but the EU situation is killing trade, which is sales and growth. In comparison w/the rest of the world, the USD has not fallen as much and so looks better, which has effected the commodity prices. USD up=commodities and other currencies down.

          The present CEO of the USA tried telling us that high gasoline prices are because of a booming recovery. That makes as much sense as *spreading the wealth around*. There is no wealth until someone produces it and if the governmental middlemen increase their cut, it is the workers who suffer. There is always the government cut when they take from some by force to give to others for votes. Jackboots are expensive.

          As people like to say these days: “It’s complicated”. There are no simplistic answers, but taking the government boot off the producers’ throats would help, a lot. Jobs will return when people start to spend, again. This will not happen under Central Command and Control.

          Everyone is having to cut back, mainly due to rising taxes, cost of government mandates, such as healthcare and *Green Energy*, cost of fuel, cost of power and cost of food. Businesses pay more in taxes and higher electric and gas heating rates. For businesses, the food equivalent is supplies and transport. If we *consumers* (I hate that term for people)can’t find the $$ to keep warm, keep the lights on, pay the fees and taxes and still eat, how can businesses?

          The fault lies with the arrogant idiots who do not understand macro-economics and who still think they can control everything by fiat. They are like those who, not being able to get a bank loan, borrow from a credit card and pay it off w/another credit card and finally, go to a loan shark and discover the interest rate is 35%. The individual who does this may get his knees broken. countries that do this get their credit rating cut and go into economic collapse. They can try to tell everyone that “It’s only a little cut”, but then they are acting like that Black Knight in the Monty Python skit.

          This IS the collapse. It is here, it is global and it is the fault of the people at the top and their media enablers who probably cannot handle their own finances any better than they can handle the finances of nations.

          Stop with the class divisiveness. Change the administration. Nothing else will work and it is still going to be hard times during the transition.

          • @ BlueH2O

            Run for office “Blue”…you got my vote!

          • Blue H2O

            “The shareholders and BOD control the CEOs.”

            The CEO works out sweetheart deals with the BOD and it’s larceny at it’s finest. The CEO/Chairman of CHK decided to borrow 1.2 billion from the shareholders to buy a personal share of some company gas wells with the loan off the books at it was LEGAL. The shareholders knew nothing about it. The price of Natural Gas drops and the CEO/Chairman cannot pay the note so the company (shareholders) take it on the chin.

            Effective regulatory control of corporate finances does not exist in the US. I lost a nice piece of change on the nonsense above.

        • I read Henry Ford was hated by many manufacturing corporations…he paid his emloyees a really good wage.
          He wanted them to BUY his cars. Not just make them!!

      4. buckle up! Get ready for a ride. Pack the basement, get the can opener ready along with the buckshot.

        • buckshot and 230 grain JHP ready to go, just shuffled around the green cans last night to make sure I know what’s in them and how much

        • you made a very simplistic statement—but you are absolutely correct. we are basically down to what you mention. just think how bad things can get, with 98% of the population doing nothing. very scary.

      5. Gold and silver also took a hit, but like I told my wife it’s still worth about twice what I paid just a few years ago.

        Fear not. Stimulus is coming. Everything will go back up relative to the dollar and then some.

        • PP;
          I lucked up and bought some gold at 270$, will have to drop badly to make me sell. AU topped 850$ in 1980, what is everyone’s guess what the next top will be? Silver topped at 50$ in 1980, what is the next top price?
          Any guesses?

          • eppe,

            it can’t go down further than this but maybe another 1 or 2 points. Then get ready for the up-ride. What ever you do, don’t sell… Hell I would even buy more at this time. Invest in 90% silver mostly unless you’re sitting on a bank to go for gold, but most of us here are for silver to preserve the wealth and future monetary easement.

            In Truth.

          • Speaking of which, there is a coin show this coming weekend at the National Western Complex in Denver.

            I’m listening to some of the big banker types predicting 3,000+ FRN gold. I can’t wait!

          • no one knows what the real value can be. we haven’t had a free market in ages. But there is a good and a bad side to higher precious metal prices. when prices for metals are going through the roof, you know the really bad times have “oficially” begun. And until a new currency is established, as each new day passes, we will need a bigger wheel barrow to carry around thos ever inflated greenbacks.

          • According to ‘Grandaddy’ Jim Sinclair.
            when the bullion banks, decide, its time, they will pull all their shorts out of the paper market, and go long.
            When this happens it will be whatever price they want, probably in the $3500-$12k range. Never to go down again.

            My take? Government will outlaw it when they switch currency systems. You wonder why the politicos (dem) aren’t worried? They got a plan!

            Its very easy, right now, governments ‘borrow’ money from private banks, who have the ‘power of the pen’, given by government.. what the government giveth the government can take away. Besides, its Biblical.

            Government will simply say; ‘capitalist’ money bad.
            and they will turn the money system into a credit system owned by government.

            But that can’t happen without absolute inventory controls, private registration of all property, and oh yeah, The Chip.

            They already have this system working.

            The only way to preserve your soul will be to leave the system.
            This is why we need to band together, for mutual support via an alternate economy and defense. Your preps WILL run out one day. What ya gonna do then?

            • @ PiperMichael:

              You are absolutely right! Each incursion by the govt into our private lives, each erosion of our personal control, privacy, independence moves us inexorably toward the end time scenario. It is beyond comprehension that people cannot see this:
              “And no one could buy or sell anything without that mark, which was either the name of the beast or the number representing his name.” Rev 13:17

          • The fed and ecb will print to infinity to prevent their ponzi economies from collapsing, delaying the collapse as long as possible. So, gold’s price potential is “no 1knows”. It wont go to zero like a stock or bond though.

      6. Time to short the S&P? Dow? Nasdaq?

        • I FINALLY agree with you eppe!!!

          • Watch out as shorting stocks is not always the answer. The government has in the past, and will in the future, step in and ban short sells if the market starts to tank. Especialy on LEAPS.

          • I was agreed to short the market if you were already in…DON’T GET IN TO SHORT.

            To repete the words of our wonderful (scarcasm) president “maybe I didn’t make myself clear”

            • ???

              Is “scarcasm” a sarcastic statement that leaves you marked for life?

        • I don’t know eppe — with High Frequency Trading and trillions of Click-Here-To-Print dollars available from the Fed, I would be hesitant to say jump into markets and go all in on an inverse play…. These markets will crash – eventually… but there is a lot they can do to keep them moving up and give the perception of stock market health (while destroying the dollar and driving consumer prices through the roof – see Tina’s 1 pound = 12 ounces comment above).

          My view is to stick with the hard assets and forget paper at this point (unless you’ve got the cash to spare and gamble)…

          • Manipulation?

            Our gas price here in SW michigan has plummeted to 3.28,down from 3.98 just 10 days ago. Have not seen these kind of drop…well ever. I thought there was not much anyone could do about lowering gas prices? This 4th of july we had a price drop instead of a rise for the fist time ever also….and Now without fanfare and hoopla it just free falls almost a quarter of its total in a week and change?

            There has to be some big manipulation going on here,And I don’t think it is just for the election.

            Food prices over a broad range of products are up on average about 32%. Some over 60.

            Apple cider here in sw michigan with the freeze we had is selling for 8 to 12 dollars a gallon.

            Beef and pork will be unobtainable this winter with the huge sell off. My neighbor was a pig farmer for 30 years and sold them all off this year and planted corn.

            Seeing how quickly gas prices have swung down, It shows us how all prices could also be shot up overnight too. I think the “big suck” when it hits, could be at lightning speed and not in slo mo.

            I have stopped hearing large military transport and fighters flying over head also since Sunday, dont know what that means.

            Thanks for keeping us informed Mac,

            I really don’t think I want to see whats in store next, but I think we all will soon,

            Stay frosty

            • Weren’t the gas price drops predicted to happen just before the election??
              Well?? This IS just before.

            • GH: Gasoline prices are down and going lower out West because supply is high and demand is down. When demand is down refineries drop the price to unload their inventory, knowing what is flowing downstream.

              It is also time for them to switch over to producing heating oil in your neck of the woods, so gasoline supplies should tighten and prices could bounce again.

              It happens every year at this time.

            • DK

              Refineries inventory? What inventory? It leaves as fast as it is refined. They have no storage.

            • K2: Not so. After it is refined it is stored in giant round storage tanks prior to shipment. When demand is down because people have been cutting back driving and their subsequent purchases due to the price point, refined gasoline backs up in storage.

              While it is the goal of every producer of every product to generate a just in time production/delivery system schedule, inventories do build when demand drops.

              Inventories represent a revenue investment and the goal is to turn over inventory as quickly and as many times as possible. See Tobin and Baumel who are the fathers of modern inventory management.

              Lots of crude is being stored as well in anticipation of war with Iran, and production of oil and gas is UP in the USA such that by year end, WE will be producing 80% of OUR demand.

              For all intents and purposes, there is a glut of supply on tap. Prices should be much lower.

            • I agree with DK. The stagnant/declining economies and less demand for gasoline, plus the fact the opec countries are pumping with a frenzy in ahead of war; has created a miniature glut on the market. How do CEO’s get the profits back up? Drop the price and create an illusion of cheaper fuel means everything else will follow suit. Wrong. “Everything else” can’t catch up before the next calamity, planned or not.

              The upcoming cold weather will probably be just enough to cause the increased demand to put an end to this little illusion. You know what I’m saying, the “calm before the storm”. If that ain’t enough, the election results will get her done. It’s all about the crude.

            • hey glacialhills im se mi yeah the prices here dropped too but did you notice it was about the ammount of the state tax they put on the gas? As for the military transports only thing I see are flights out of the airbase not as frequent tho.

          • One aspect of having stocks is how they will do when hyperinflation hits. Their value will go up along with hyperinflation, while cash on the sidelines will go down. So if I understand correctly, it makes sense to have some money in the stock market at this time. Correct me if I’m wrong…

          • DK, I would believe you on the supply and demand thingy if it weren’t election time. Obomber has once again parted the Persian Sea with his nine iron and the prices have obeyed.

        • Too late the premiums are too high now since the retrace is well underway. Ten days ago would have been a winner low VIX and low premiums.

        • Yes. Shorting on Monday would have been very good. Shorting more tomorrow will be good because the S&P has a long way to go down.

          Sure, there will be ups and downs, but right now the trend is down. And of course, such just before a national election generally provides support for the challenger.

      7. Water, TP, silver and lead

        so far the best investment.

        • If I am not mistaken, all of these are up over 100%+ since the year 2000! I think the DJIA is (currently) up about 30% in that same time frame.

          • @ Mac. This is exactly the point between REAL DJIA and the one that they want everyone to see. Everytime the price of precious metals soars, technically unless the stocks pretty much match the price increase, the stock plummet. REAL value to gold has the stock market actually at around 8500 instead of the 13000 mark because TRUE money says this. I can see these idiots with gold at $5000 an ounce and the stock market at near 30000 and everyone jumping for joy. All the while, a gallon of gas is around $9, bread is about $6, a gallon of milk about $7, and much worse others. The deceptive that goes on is sickening isn’t it?

            • Be Informed

              Jumping for joy no but much better prepared than those without precious metals.

              You can pump money into the market via the financial institutions post Glass-Steagall but in the end stocks suffer when earnings drop or evaporate entirely. As wages do not keep pace the latter is a guarantee.

            • @ Kevin2. Exactly, everything has a celing and a bursting point. The more printed money that gets pumped in, the more inflated the balloon becomes and the bigger the explosion when it does pop. I just wonder IF Mother Nature will beat everyone to the punch. The Geophysical worlds on the planet and the sun are ALIVE and really extremely restless.

          • Mac, the USD Index is down about 1/3 or 33% +/- since 2000. Those gains on the DJIA are illusory and actually a bit negative. That is assuming someone was invested in a company that still exists.

            It is likely worse, IMO, than the charts even show, since I doubt any balance sheets of all the countries against which the USD is valued, including those of the USA.

            OTOH, for traders, this is a lovely market. For the pension funds and individual retirement savers, it is, in the long run, not so great. However, even those profits realized by the savvy trader are reduced by taxes and inflation, so they are actually making less or just holding their own. And they pay the increased COL just like everyone else.

            The PMs are valued in USD. There is no way to escape the USD or any other fiat. Probably not for a long time. Maybe the best bet would be to buy industrial PMs, so that when the economy returns to full steam, they can be made into something that people will again want to buy and maybe even with a stronger dollar. Making something means there is value added for labor and competency.

            It is true that you can’t fight the Fed. All you can really do is make the trend your friend.

      8. Caterpillar has been on rolling layoffs for the last 6 weeks (white collar), laid off/fired over 30 percent of its contract workforce (white collar), and is talking about shutting down manufacturing (blue collar) for the final five weeks of the year and first week of next year. Yet, they get the earnings so shareholders get their money and every top dog gets his salary and bonuses.
        It’s all coming, worse than 2008 I fear, it seems itso will last as longer and won’t come up as quick, it’ll hit low and stay low. Gotta keep heads up and stay busy no matter what comes. God bless to all…

        • Caterpillar is down because China has slowed, US Construction is still down, and copycat manufacturers of heavy equipment are making inroads into the US market because the Chinese have suppressed their currency and these copycat products can compete with Caterpillar pricing even after shipping them from China.

          Nothing new here either. Just more of the same.

          • @DK,
            The more I read your arrogant, know-it-all, condescending comments, the more I hope you go away, what a dickhead.

            • BP: You can call me any names you like. It doesn’t phase me in the least. The reality is that the economy is in the toilet because GWB allowed 42,400 factories and 60 million jobs to be transferred offshore to benefit the Global investment class at OUR expense.

              O’Bummer couldn’t run a lemonade stand and his sorry attempt to ignite the economy was to double down on Bush’s stupidity, and followed the liberal way and hired many thousands of government workers to redistribute wealth. How much of that redistributed wealth has trickled down to you?

              Fact: another 15,000 factories have offshored during his Administration.

              This is not rocket science. Even a second year business student understands that the way WE stimulate the economy and create jobs is to cut taxes, cut regulations for small business, and provide tax incentives new capital equipment.

              I am just explaining what is really happening. it has happened before and it will continue to happen until 100 million gun owners in America organize politically and engage their employees.

              Two words for you: FUCK OFF! 🙂

            • durango kidd –

              You were doing pretty good with your rebuttal to balding patriot until you dropped down to his level at the end of your argument.

              By the way – it’s “faze”, not “phase”.

              Phasers are something that the crew of Star Trek would set on stun or whatever.

              “Phase the little creep, Mr. Sulu.”

              “Aye, Captain.”

            • durango kidd

              So Clinton signing NAFTA and then China Free Trade 2 months before leaving office had nothing to do with it?

              Busgh 41 wanted Free Trade. Clinton gave them Free Trade. Bush 43 had it take it’s course and Obama is proposing even more Free Trade with slave labor nations.

              Obama can’t run a lemonade stand? What makes you believe that the President runs the country? Two party’s, four administrations and the same policy. The economic policies are made elsewhere and the President just implements it.

            • DK, +1

              some people can’t handle the truth

          • This is what my brother, who works at CAT as an engineer states, now that he has one week off from the rolling one week “lay-offs”.

            Demand is slowing in China, with a “channel stuffing” of extra inventory of the earth movers.

            His position may be winding down as the new electronic pollution controls required here in US, (but a cost burden when competing with foreign copycats in China) have been installed.

            Other brother in Chrysler is also engineer who is contract employee. Once the new transmission makes its debut next year, his job may go as well.

            If you get my drift.

        • entertaining cat has posted profits for the last 10 years, while keeping the employees on a pay freeze for 6 of them. Just goes to shwo that when it gets a bit down th ecompany runs out on those who got them there. My company will cut hours, then ask ppl to take a week off without pay well before layoff time, then they will ask for a temp. pay reduction of about 10%, THEN if need be will lay off.

          what was that about cat? layoff who for what? yeah profit but fuck your employees.

      9. Although I could always use more time to prep, for the sake of the country, it would be much better for the bottom to fall out before the election than after.
        On or after Nov 7, if o wins it won’t matter what happens to the economy, he and his gang would be untouchable for four more years and he will complete the “fundamental transformation” he promised in a rare moment of honesty. If R wins, he will get all the blame.

        Lets Roll

        • No, no no. You can’t sympathize with Romney saying “he will take all the blame” if you can’t do it with Obama for Bush’s many mistakes. Things were getting bad by the minute with Bush. Obama took office, things got much worse and when Romney takes office it will likely hit bottom and our prep supplies will be put to use. It is either Obama and Romney’s fault that our economy dissolves, or it is just them both being in the wrong career at the wrong time.

      10. “Things are never as good as they seem and things are never as bad as they seem”.

      11. Invest in ammo, its never going down, and its demand is going to go thru the roof

        • @VRF

          Just picked up 500 rds of Winchester PDX-1 9mm 147gr. Also some 130 gr. in .38 spl.

          From what I ‘ve read the newer bonded ammo like the PDX-1, Gold Dot, bonded Golden Sabers, and Critical Duty (not Critical Defense) are light years ahead of regular JHP’s. The bonding stops the jacket from separating, so you get good penetration and expandsion.

          Which is why some PD’s are switching back from the .40 to the 9’s.

          • Sweet, Most of of what I shoot is north of .40 cal or above.
            but that ammo sounds nice, I have taken to the art of making my own, but I always like to try out different projectiles. I’ll have to check them out , thsnks

      12. But I thought obama said all was well and getting better!
        Keep prepping and luck to all.

        • What’s minimum preps to survive in Los Angeles for a few months?

          (I say a few months because if it really falls off this place will become the 9th level of hell and I’ll eaither be out of here bumming around in the Mojave desert or dead)

          Berkey filter
          Enough solar to run a radio and a lay down fridge and charge up a flashlight (RV style… like that inefficient but easily assembled and sadly overpriced per watt but cheap from a cash flow perspective thingy they got at Harbor Freight… the fridge is another story altogether… good luck to me on that one…)
          First aid stuff
          About a billion packs of Ramen noodles
          Some bunny rabbits (tasty)
          Gasoline… lots of gasoline…


          Ok what’s enough to live as a bloody nomad in the middle of the grapevine somewhere…???

          • you need more planning; forget rabbits, fridge. think rice, corn, beans, sugar, I lived in Bakersfield for 25 years, forget the grapevine. The only survival possible that close to LA is guns and eat the losers. You might have a chance North of Fresno. Find a spot lay low for a year.

            • Rabbits are a great idea, breed em breed em heavy and remember they will be good for barter.

          • TheGuy:

            Move. I can’t think of a worse place to be in a Depression than LA unless it is elsewhere in California.

            • Oh working on it my man, working on it. But it appears to me that due to certain issues I’m going to miss my window on this one. I mean unless this shit holds itself together for three to five more years.

              Main issue WAS debt. That’s gone probably somewhere between January and March. After that I start prioritizing and prepping first for base survival, then slowly upping the standard of survival living from there. So probably solar’s a luxury item for initial preps. Unnecessary, mostly. Maybe a portable unit good enough to charge a flashlight.

              Remaining problem is elderly parents that can’t be left alone and utterly refuse to move.

              But again, it’s LA. There’s literally zero sense in trying to “bug in” here. So the standard of survival living LOCALLY… I mean past a certain point it’s a waste.


              What do you think of places like 29 Palms, Banning, etc… can get land for dirt cheap there…

              29 Palms I wouldn’t mind personally but it’s close to a Marine base and I can’t say if they’re gonna be my buddies or not.

            • “29 Palms I wouldn’t mind personally but it’s close to a Marine base and I can’t say if they’re gonna be my buddies or not.”

              If you think that ANYBODY is going to be your buddy after the SHTF, you need a serious reality check.

          • The city is all the way past Castaic now. You have to go further than the Grapevine.

            • When the “real” SHTF and LA becomes more piss-ant crazy than it already is; I envision the grapevine as a cluster-fuck of mass exodus for the San Joaquin Valley and the produce warehouses.
              Thank God we are 2500 miles east of that battlefield.

        • YOU AGAIN…….SHEESH !

      13. When Wal*Mart starts laying off full time employees the gig is up.

        It’s coming folks.

        Batten down the hatches.

      14. The beatings will continue until morale improves.

        • Ouch! that hurts

      15. Beinformed: Just had a talk with a PE (friend) with close connections to USGS. He was told this morning that they a looking very strongly at an event on the NEW MADRID or connected to it in the next 7-10 days. That is all that was said.

        • If the scientists are wrong, they’ll be tried & convicted like over in Europe….

        • I live really close to that fault line. I really hope nothing happens .

        • Is that Donald Trump’s October surprise to be announced tomorrow??????????

        • Anyone have any ideas of the number of nuclear power stations located along that fault line? What are the SCRAM protocols for reactors in this country? Would the wind jet stream make everything east of multiple domestic Fukashima’s uninhabitable? I’m worried about this.

          • Does anybody have preferred links where I can buy a radiation meter? Recommendations needed here. Thanks to all.

        • Thanks copperhead,

          BI and I have been watching things real close lately … that kind of info is REALLY helpful since the general public is usually given the ‘mushroom’ treatment.

          • @ JustOneGuy and copperhead. Just got done sending a comment and boom they had a 6.6 earthquake in Costa Rica. This is probably just an aftershock to the bigger earthquake a few weeks ago, but it shows that the planet is moving a lot. Get ready for MORE.

        • @ copperhead. I was just looking at the USGS map, and I wouldn’t be surprised if something let loose tonight or tomorrow morning. I have personally never seen so many earthquakes in different locations. It just keeps occurring and it is like the entire planet is beginning to go into some sort of flux. Just look at the Caribbean and the Mid Atlantic Ridge at about 18 degrees north and at about 57 degrees north for activity. Look at the San Andreas in the middle of it for action on the New Madrid. Your friend could be correct in the next 7-10 days, but I still feel there will be some sort of sign before it happens.

          Just look at the Balleny Islands, and then all these earthquakes on the northern section of the Australian plate, it is impressive. Still haven’t had that really big one as it seems the plates are gearing up for something very big. I still say the line from the Soloman Islands to Tahiti have a gaint bull’s eye on them. Poor New Zealand is also in this zone.

          I have thought about one plate having a really big earthquake and the other plates just not relocking after the movement, and a cascade of earthquakes around the world. I was looking at recent history of earthquakes, say the past few hundred years, and this scenario has not happened, but doesn’t mean that it has not happened in the past. I have never seen this many different spots in such a short time period, so who knows. I would be able to tell if and when such a scenario begun. Until this time, we just have to wait and closely observe.

          By the way copperhead, you have done a fantastic job of giving survival information to everyone. Everytime one of us offers this type of help, everyone not only thinks about it, but it inspires many to kick prepping into a more urgent level. 🙂

          • BI: Just an old country boy try’n to help. If nothing else get people to think’n. Oh my friend thats the PE lives in WVA. He said it was more like a warning tone in the voice of the guy at USGS, if you get my drift. Something or someone is going to uncork the bottle I feel, SOON.

            • @Copperhead,
              I made the Applesauce cakes in jars the other day…the lids didn’t pop, so I’ll try again, and eat these cakes right away. Thank you for the recipes. I only with it was easier to go back and find them…something like a “sticky” forum.

              @BI, I watch the earthquakes all the time now..very interesting. I’m in Ohio, so will possibly feel shaking If the New Madrid moves.

              I’ve been prepping in all the recommended ways, thanks to this site and some others. Sadly, I was in a coin shop to buy silver today, and somebody was selling a small, old 10K gold charm & chain in order to buy food. It was a reality check for me.

            • Stop it. You guys are scaring me!

            • Folks that have read their prophetic words shouldn’t be at all, surprised. The “shaking” will increase just as the “pangs” of birthing do, more intense and closer together before the big “rupture”. Hold on and keep your “sea legs” underneath your ass cause it’s gonna be a bumpy ride from here on out/in. We have had the warning from Mac and friends for years also. Pass the popcorn and jug wine.

          • @BI…have you seen the sunspot that has been kicking off X-class solar flares lately? This solar activity does affect earth…and I wonder what the overall effect might be to the plates if these flares get stronger? I can hypothesize but who is really to say. Hold on to your hats people, we could be headed toward a bumpy ride.

            • @ BI and Kynase,

              I see you caught the Costa Rica quake. I was just coming over to get your read on that…it’s already here, TALK about fast SERVICE:)
              As far as the Solar thing…I was just over at JSOC looking over the latest HMIB/HMID’s (Respectively, the magnetic and Doppler imaging of the solar surface). There’s a region towards the trailing area of 11598 that contains a strong area of ‘trapped flux’, ie, an area of postive polarity completely bracketed by a surround of negative flux. In English: The flux can’t go anywhere, it’s locked up. If this region – for whatever resaon – undergoes any compression by the surrounding area the flux density will go up and subsequently the probabiltiy of another large event with it. On balance, this is similar to what we saw both in March and July previously this year.
              Hey BI, did you catch copperhead’s post about USGS being nervous about the New Madrid?

          • Watch the wildlife gents. They are the key.

        • A few days ago here in GA, it felt like the ground might have been shaking a little and I wondered if it could be a very small earthquake.

          • It’s the white lightening.

      16. Beans & nat gas seem to be the only commod up right now. Go figure.

        • Guns & ammo too. Record breaking sales in the last couple of years.

          I’m in the wrong business!

      17. Please be advised, I am sick and tired of answering questions about my dog,

        who mauled Six people wearing Obama tee shirts, Four wearing Pelosi tee shirts,

        Two Democrats, Nine teenagers with pants hanging past their cracks,
        Three flag burners, and a Pakistani taxi driver.

        • Why not have some puppies?

          Start the bidding now..


        • @ copperhead,
          ROTFLMAO…Rinse,,,REPEAT, Thanks!

      18. No matter who wins in 2012, we are in for some very, very difficult times. That said, I’d rather have a man of God in charge during those times than a dictator wanna-be.

        • I see no man of God running.

          • Do you see a man who wants to be like God?….And go down in history as not just the “One” who, although born in Kenya Africa(not us const elegible for prez) and swindled his way into the whitehouse, with mucho help from crooked msm Traitors.

            Also wants to go down in history books as the Prime Main Hero of Blacks worldwide, as the,,,”ONE”…Who also single handedly Destroyed both the Greatest White race and It’s Nation to ever exist?

            I sure do….Along with a wife who by all indications craves that even Moreso then he!

            I’d bet when both he & she looks in a mirror, they see themselves arrayed in Robes with real gold trim, and very Large Crowns upon their heads, with a couple Billion african/blacks worldwide Bowing down in Praise of such acomplishments!

            Just before they all either starve due to zero whites left for them to Parasite off of, or they all murder each other after breaking off into Tribes again.

            A Worldwide Africa, with HObammy and Sheeboon as King & Queen of it all……”Ah..Ah…Ahaaa…..Aaaaaaannnnnnnddddd! Damn wheres that teleprompter gone to?

            Oooooo HObammy He bez Mah Hero!…Hez dunz gots ridz O’ dems evils whiteys folks N’all….Hallalluulla!!


            • @ Angelo M

              Damnit boy…you have a bright future awaiting you as an interpreter or translator per, Ebonics to English!

              Now…if you can just get the yiddish down pat, you’ll make a fortune!

            • Before you follow through on your “sensitivity training” and call AM a vile racist, think about it. Before this chapter in human history is over, white people will be wondering how they can rebuild the Klan.

      19. Readers often comment or email us to ask when such a collapse may happen????????

        Trying to predict when the SHTF is like watching a magician pulling handkerchiefs from his closed fist. You don’t know how many handkerchiefs he has in his hand, but you know with each one he pulls you’re getting closer to the end of the trick.

        Prep, pray, and prep some more.

        • All those computer zeros on the stock exchange mean nothing to me as they can so easily be manipulated by individuals far more sophisticated than I am. The boom/bust showed just how easily paper fortunes can be won and lost.

          The Baltic index tells me how many goods are being traded. In a good year people buy and sell lots of tangible items to one another, in a bad one everyone hunkers down to make do and mend with what they have. This basic truism is roughly accurate whether trade be between nations or simple Mums like myself.

          The story the Baltic index tells isn’t a good one, and hasn’t been for a long time now.

          Kevin2 articulates the basics of what’s been happening to the Western world far better than I ever could.

          • lonelonmum

            Thank you sir. It’s really great to think someone reads and appreciates my ideas.

            I’m honored.

        • It’s already happening. Look back 25 years at prices and debt. You will notice every 5 year increase easier than a month to month rise. Trust me here on this one. It is already begun.

        • Anton: A Sample Ebonics Math quize test question from detroit grade schools.

          If Tyrone buys one OZ. of Crack for $1000, and puts a two-whack on it so he ends up with Three oz’s…

          And if Wille the Pimp will trade tyrone 21 grams of crack in exchange for Two Prime Ho’s(prostitutes)…

          How many grams of cut crack does tyrone have left?

          And how many Tricks will his two new Ho’s need Turn, to show a profit for tyrone.

          EBONICS=English lesson #2…..What does “HODEDO” mean when translated into Whiteys english?

          Give an example with both versions included in a sentence.

          ANSWER= Two African males are running down an office center hallway, yelling “Hodedo”! Hodedo!….This is translated into whiteman english as such…Two Black Minority persons are running to catch the elevator while yelling…”Hold the Door”! Hold the Door!!

          • @ Angelo M

            Bravo sir!
            Applause also.

      20. Actually, I’m not worried at all about the stock market. The Fed will print more money to reflate it. It might be a money making opportunity.

        The SHTF happens when bond yields start rising. The central banks have been buying government debt to shield it from market forces (and forcing banks to use it as tier 1 capital). When the value of bonds fall and interest rates rise, the Fed, the banks, and pension funds will go belly up. The government will follow as servicing the existing trillions becomes unmanageable. 7-10% yields were all it took to bring Spain and Greece down.

        • @ oldboy

          Ohhhhh Woe, woe & extra woe…be unto you Oldboy. For thou art about to incur the wrath of this site’s resident economic GOD & guru master of wealth creation & its maintenance & growth thereof. For truly, thy know not of what thy post!

          Thou hast strayed far a hither, from the confined pastures of peep-dom! Ye art now akin to a heretic. Lament ye of such ideals or mega-woes be unto you here!

          Oh ye of little federal reserve faith, hellfire & brimstone & thunderbolt zots of flesh ripping diatribe, are thine destiny soon. For flayed & chastised wilt be thine carcass, for posting such heresy for the herd to view. Thou hast ENGAGED in blasphemous economic thoughts…& rendered such unto the printed word.
          Thy transgressions be almost unforgivable. Wicked be thou…most wicked indeed!

          How SINFUL, art thou, Oldboy. Lament thy sinfulness, sir! Confess thine wrongly evil thoughts of the bonded & seek to engageth thine slave-masters in their arena of corruption in politics. ‘Tis thine only recompense for $$$ salvation.

          Forsooth & posthaste, repent ye doubting varmint & don sack-cloth & adroitly sprinkle thine-self with buckets of ashes…lest ye suffer much, for thine mistaken faith in real economics & facts & the errors therein.

          Repent, ye unbeliever!
          For thy doom & that of thine family is a future far removed, from the gospel & faith of the followers of the herd’s peep master.

          Actually Oldboy, I think along the same lines as you do.
          Good post & I gave you a green thumb to boot. I’ve got a serious case of “sarcastic-ass” tonight. It’s been a bad day here. Hold fast to your truths & watch your back.

          • Anton: My ears were ringing. You must be talking about me! 🙂

            Oldboy is right, but the caveat is “when the values of bonds fall and interest rates rise”.

            I am not a bond market expert. No interest. But I do know that the FED controls the flow of money, the bond market, and interest rates.

            While I expect interest rates to rise eventually, it will be because the economy is under control, de-leveraging has concluded, and the FED is holding the lion’s share of US debt.

            So don’t expect SHTF unless the creek rises, the sewer backs up, and the toilet overflows.
            Not today, Anton, not today. And not as long as the FED controls the money, the bond market, and interest rates. 🙂

            • @ Mr. Kidd

              Ok sir…in that case I reckon I owe you an apology. Had mistakenly assumed that you would have trashed ‘Oldboy’, per my erroneous perceived understanding of your faith in paper & politics.
              I was wrong.

              Thus, please accept my apology for dissing you, as my assumptions were evidently unfounded…I am sorry Mr. Kidd.

              Will endeavor to disagree only when facts, truths & opinions are evident.


            • Anton: No apologies necessary. Ever! Water on a ducks back.

            • It must be wonderful to be young and insane.

            • I’m 62 Walt. Been there. Done that.

            • DK may come off as arrogant, but be that as it may, his financial advise is usually pretty good. He doesn’t know everything any more than anyone else, and will probably admit it, albeit grudgingly. Americans will mostly sit and bitch until faced with a real crisis, which we have yet to see. I know people who lived the USSR meltdown, and they laugh at what Americans call a crisis.

              I don’t call the 2008 stock market event a real crash, as most of us were, and still are, working. Right now, I think the stock market is due for at least a 20% correction, which would be a drop of about 2600 points. A 250 point swing is nothing to freak out about.

              Only a fool believes the “Arab Spring” was sparked by a longing for “freedom”. The poor slobs were, and largely still are, starving. Unlike most Americans, they were REALLY barely able to keep food on the table, and never had the prosperity cushion Americans enjoy (and feel they are OWED). Note the dearth of fat people in the M.E.

          • Macbeth?

        • Oldboy, agreed. I thought the bottom would fall out when the market for treasuries dried up. I never envisioned the Fed stepping in to become the main buyer. We were assured, by Bernanke, that this would never happen. A blind man can see that the money manipulators are propping up the stock markets. I am no economist, but I do believe that all assets will find their true value at some point. Now I see the tipping point as being when the US dollar finds its true value, which is reflection of US manufacturing vs. the number of dollars in circulation. When the dollar loses its value the government’s only tool will be brute force.

      21. Do you know where the phrase “Read the writing on the wall” came from. Read the Bible book of Daniel, Chapter 5. Basically the Babalonian king Belshazzar threw a big party and ordered his subjects to toast their pagan gods with the goblets taken from the Jewish temple. A finger appeared and wrote some words on his palace wall. Daniel was bought in and interperted the words which said that the king and his kingdome was finished. The king was killed and the next day his kingdome was invaded by the Meads and Persians. Something is coming very soon and it will be bad. Prepare patriots and seek Gods mercy.

        • The feast is featured in my favorite Rembrandt painting, of the same name.

        • God gave him the finger?

          HEHE sorry couldn’t resist…

      22. The signs have been there for some time now and all of a sudden this news comes as a shock? C’mon peeps we all know whats coming down the road. Been saying it for 4 years or more and got dismissed as a right wing gun toting redneck ( I am ), and now people are asking me what can they do to stay alive. “you should have listened years ago when I told nothing good was gonna happen. ” Darwin will sort this one out.

      23. Globalism in it’s unrelenting quest to maximise profitability has been killing the goose that laid the golden egg. The more people that manufacture goods at $1.00 per hour the less there are making $20.00 per hour to purchase said goods. When millions of workers toil making consumer goods that they themselves cannot afford the sustainability of the system is compromised.

        The above being said in the meantime the directors of the unsustainable system reap rewards multiple times their contribution and worth in a winner take all. The banking establishment through political contributions re-legalized actions that contributed to some of the causes of the great depression in another winner take all endeavour.

        The masses in the developed nations continue to cast votes in elections where the contenders are vetted to insure their globalist positions.

        Self government cannot work if the citizens cannot see the obvious fact that they don’t control their respective governments.

        • Kevin, agree, from above:

          I read Henry Ford was hated by many manufacturing corporations…he paid his emloyees a really good wage.
          He wanted them to BUY his cars. Not just make them!!

        • Kevin2…That describes the economic angle good. But theres another angle not many sepak of.

          That is, the reason a vast majority today are so litterally dumbed down so badly.

          Thats due to another Major plank of communisim. In order to gain such total control over developed nations, such as america is, they dumb down the entire society.

          Several generations worth today. That was acomplished by the activity of the last 100 yrs since turn of century aka 1900 to Today.

          The first 1/2 or 50 yrs, 1900-1950, was spent by kommies infiltrating every aspect of what we call “society” and “Culture”.

          Once by aprox. 1950-60 era they were fully inbedded into All forms of govnt-schools-unions-MSM in All forms, newspapers-TV-Radio-Magaz’s etc…..

          They were able to actually Change our real History. Gradually since 1950 till now today, most all our real history as well as history of rest of worlds events etc was RE-Written by the kommies. Especially public schools history Textbooks.

          Unions control what teachers teach, with help from Polititions who are pure traitors. Sell outs.

          Before we knew it america was transformed into basically a Godless-kommie run nation. Where a vast majority fell for “anything Goes” mentality. Moral Reletivity they call it.

          They replaced Right from Wrong, with, whatever feels good go for it. Right and Wrong is whatever You want it to be now.(I dont subscribe to it, They do).

          Majority today believe all the crap of how evil our founders were. And how Out dated our us const is etc.(not true but they think it is).

          No matter how they screw with money or economy a nation such as america cannot be destroyed unless the kommie, Re-write history plan is used.

          Well, anyone today whos at least about 45-50 yrs old Knows what I mean. Because it occured during our lifetimes and we are old enough to remember how it used to be…..And that was far better than todays usa is.

          But this was all done on the sly….Secretly done with alot of help from Hollywood and MSM and of course TV.

          Now regardless what can be fixed with money-banks-economy, unless we can Re-Teach true history and restore a real love for america based upon that true historys past etc…It will never get right again.

          Even if everybody gets alot of money it still wont fix it all. A real Return to Past American values based on True history, and a Nationalistic sence of belonging and Ownership of the nation itself.

          Nationalisim isnt a bad thing. America First-For americans is good. It used to be like that. And the very fact that nationalisim is one thing Globalists Fear most proves me correct.

          Most every huge corp or industry today got so great because of America as their begining home base and Americans as workers etc. Now after 100yrs they pak up and move away. Yet still desire Our consumerisim and Respect of their companies.

          Regardless what taxes or laws is excuse for, left usa and Us folks hanging out to dry, they still are just as much traitors as polititions and them Evil bankster usuary bunch.

          They all caused all this mess. We was hoodwinked and lied to. Now They truely do deserve Pure Wrath…Full strength without measure.

          Just hope I get to see it happen before I check out from this world. Wont happen unless todays youth(up to age 35-40yrs old) can be Re-taught history and factual truths.

          I doubt it can happen without youth being forced to re-learn. Thats no good either. A real dilema eh.

          If america is ever fixed, first new law should OUTlaw all kommieisim…Death Penalty for kommies. Proven to be absolute worst-bloodiest-deadliest form of govnt ever. Bar none.

          • They will get theirs (big business) when the Chicoms steal and replicate their technology, and eventually nationalize their businesses.
            Theives and master imitators they are(Chicoms). And climbing into bed with them is making a deal with the devil.
            I see this as a national security issue. Short sighted.

            For example; If you own a Cat dozer, and need new tracks, the market is littered with Chinese knock-offs at half the price of genuine Cat. It won’t be long before the whole machine is built there just to compete. And in some cases I believe it already is. Car parts,cars. Generators. Machine tools. Printing presses. hand tools. Furniture. Clothing. Kitchen appliances. Shoes. Giant cranes. Bridges (are you kidding!)

          • The power elite have left no stone unturned in their quest for control. The money supply is first and with it de-facto comes the military. Food, energy and then education is next with the last vestige being thoughts and ideas.

            They are multiple generations into their plan while the people are just waking up and thinking (while they still can think); “Hay something is wrong here”.

      24. The Sh*t is Hitting The Fan

        Y’all Beware! Good article on Handgun Stopping Power in Sept. issue of American Rifleman. The author fired 100 handgun loads into ballistic gelatin,measuring velocity, penetration and expansion for each.

        • @Y’all
          Yup, Survival blog also had a link to another larger paper written by an M.D. last week, on the same subject.

          Unless you are restricted to FMJ like our Grunts, there is no need to go to the larger calibers anymore. The bonded 9mm’s,.357 Sig, .40, and .45 JHP all give you just about the same performance. Who’d a thunk it?

          • You’re right on, Rev.
            I’ve got some bullets that were developed a few years ago and they are like little exploding war heads. With a standard 38 cal. pistol charge at 45 yards and a hit to the gut, I can drop a 250 lb. man, deer, or bear, in it’s tracks. The design and properties of the bullet are amazing. The explosion inside the cavity will eviscerate the vitals instantly. The only downside is aiming wrong and catching a rib bone at too far a distance. I save these bullets for short range emergencies.

      25. A young couple left the church and arrived at the hotel where they were spending the first night of their honeymoon. They opened the champagne and began undressing. When the bridegroom removed his socks, his new wife asked, “What’s wrong with your feet? Your toes look all mangled and weird.

        “I had tolio as a child,” he answered. “You mean polio?” she asked.

        “No, tolio . The disease only affected my toes.”

        When the groom took off his pants, his bride once again asked “What’s wrong with your knees? They’re all lumpy and deformed!”

        “As a child, I also had kneasles,” he explained. “You mean measles?” she asked.

        “No, kneasles. It was a strange illness that only affected my knees.”

        The new bride had to be satisfied with this answer. As the undressing continued, her husband at last removed his underwear.

        “Don’t tell me,” she said. “Let me guess…


        Y’all Beware! An old one – we still need a laugh!

        • ROFLMAO

        • Now you started something. LOL!

          A few years ago when Viagra first came out, I was in the local drug store getting a prescrip filled, when an old man walked up and asked the pharmacist if she had any of the new “generic” form of Viagra. She said, “I don’t think so, but let me check”. She came back and said they didn’t and had not heard of any on the market and asked, “what is it called”. The old man kinda grinned at me and said, “Mycoxa-falin”. I LMAO all the way home.

      26. Don’t worry, all is well, Benny B’s gonna print more money. Besides money printing is in vogue all around the globe now. All the central banks are coordinating their QE’s so that should keep inflation in check, right??

        Look at the bright side if they add 3 zeros to the currency you can pay off the average home for $203. Don’t let little things like the price of electric, food, fuel and water get you down.

        There is a shit storm coming that no one can stop and that’s just a fact. You can argue it and maybe delay it, but the PTB can’t stop it!!!

        • I do believe though that the longer they prolong the inevitable the harder the fall and the longer to recover and the way they are going don’t know if will be able to recover at least not in our lifetime.
          Keep prepping and luck to all

          • Or that many that didn’t see before are seeing now, finally, and can prepare better??

            • Yes some are starting to see and starting to prepare my sister in law has finally seen the light and is starting to prep. I wouild hate to be starting now though. I am now where near ready but at least I have a little.
              keep prepping and good luck

          • @Ranchers wife….haven’t seen you for awhile….but was looking at your web page… have an amazing place!! Loved all the pics……and your tips are really great!! Want to try canning the bacon bits….

            I have only been canning meat for a month or so, just did a bunch of chicken…..looks great! I wanted to try a beef stroganoff with my canned beef,,,do you have an easy recipe for such a dish? thanx in advance…take care, CC

            • @Canada Canuk
              Thanks! We have been busy hunting and havn’t been around much. I do have a recipe for beef stroganoff I will try to get it posted on my site tonite or tomorrow.

          • My opinion on that is when the financial collapse occurs, that will be the beginning of our recovery. Wipe the slate clean, what ever you have is free and clear. All debt is wiped out and we rebuild with community banks, no more to big to fail.

            Wages will very low, but it will be relative to the cost of living. My hypothesis is wages, prices and homes will reset to the 1950’s if I’m wrong on that my next guess is the reset to 1910.

            Ok now everyone can unload on me as a loon.

            • North Dakota is the only state with their own state owned bank. And the only state of all 50 that has no recession troubles. Zero deficits. And the lowest unemplyoyed rate in all 50 states.

              Plus their state bank has 100% transparency and every citizen can see their books etc.

              N.Dakotas done so swell they Lowered property and state income taxes over $400,000 in last few yrs. And are talking of lower taxes yet!….That state bank has alot to do with this. All profits return to state & citizens uses. None goes to DC-fed reserve snakes!

              Use that bank method and Add get rid of All intrest/usuary systems and americas troubles be fixed in 5yrs. Boot out fed reserve and pay them ZERO owed.

              Only payback they got comming is LIFE in Prison..Real regular prison with all other criminals. If they cant survive?….Too Fuckin bad. No golf club jails. Real jail!

            • PO..I pray you are right. It would be the best outcome for we peons..but, the rich elitists will fight it.

            • Well said Angelo and also true concerning S.D.

      27. My husbands employer, in banking is laying off big time, my daughters boyfriend lost his job, banking, too.

        • This second leg down will continue until late next Spring. Historically the first year of a new President (Mitt) is recessionary.

          This allows the incoming administration to claim that they are responsible for the improvement in the economy 3.5 years later.

          Nothing new here either. I’ve seen it before.


        • I retired from banking. I can tell you, when it slows with people coming in, not making loans, not opening accounts and etc., they will cut employees. People have been taking money out of the bank for months now. Most likely spending on what they need, fixing up their house or buying gold and silver. They are really scared that something is going to happen real soon. Banks may see something coming.

      28. This is the end of the US debt based fractional reserve banking fiat monetary system. The dollar has been a fiat currency for 41 years, the average lifespan for a fiat currency is 40 years. The problem this time round western economies are in the same boat, i.e. far too much debt with their fiat currency. The banking institutions also created new money by the introduction of credit cards, sub prime lending and derivatives. Simply put the money will never be paid back.

        I have done an animated cartoon link below explaining the dire problems we face.

        • Don’t forget about the wonderful thing we americans enjoy. Petro dollars! Until those dollars all the other countries have in their vaults return home to roost, we stay on top. It may not be a very plesant top but the top none the less.

        • P.S. great video bro!

      29. The FED can print all the money they want, but there is nothing to back it up, but their HOT AIR. So if you think thats good enough, Im sorry, that won’t do it. It’s coming and it is going hit very very HARD. Cushion your landing with all the prep’s you can NOW! All the people that deal in the money business, if they think TPTB won’t pull the rug out form under them, they are not as wise as they think they are. Just remember TPTB only care for themselves.

        • @ Copperhead

          I admitt that I’m being a smart ass here, but how many of TPTB do you know? Really! Like drinking buddies or maybe a brother-in-law?

          You’re a really great prepper, but there is just so much b.s. on prepper sites that passes as fact. Heck 99% of the stuff we all write (including me), comes from our reading web sites like this one…..just say’n

          • @Rev.Ike

            Very true. More true than most of us want to admit!!! My husband works in a very high military job and when I tell him stuff that I read on my alternative websites, most of the time he laughs.

            • Mine too! It’s like he is amused by my worries. Comment on an earthquake, he’s like “they’ve been doing it for all of earth’s life. Gun? No way. Hope he keeps his bad temper if someone decides to “check us out”!

            • Why does working at a high military job(whatever that is)mean he is right? What kind of stuff does he laugh at?

            • When he laughs just ask him why the goverment preps.

          • REV: I’m not on their mailing list, but I do have a Flag Officer(3 Stars) in the family, and just figure somebody out there has got to be running this dog and pony show. If you don’t think anything is going south then WHY PREP. If nobody is pulling the strings of the governments then I guess everything is OK. As for the family member FO he dosen’t laugh anymore(ydntk), he say thing are worse than you can imagine and he started me prep’n. I don’t worry about my bank account(it’s all fake money anyway and tomorrow it maybe HAITIAN GOUDE), I worry about my family and if I’m right with the man up stairs. If you keep your eyes open and your ears to the ground you see that things are not right and somebody out there(PTB) is herding us to the cliff. I take everything on the net, MSM, and yes a lot of talk on the street with a grain of salt. If you start to put the puzzle pieces together guess what, soon you see what the puzzle is. So yes I don’t know any PTB (that I know of), I just know that the SH-T going down is not right. I DO KNOW THAT IT”S GOING BY THE BOOK!
            Thats just me and like I have said before- I’m just an old dumb country hick thats just try’n to get by.

          • @ Rev. Ike

            You know reverend, I gotta admit…You also come across as an honest man.

            That said, I betcha your sermons are a real riot!

            Thumbs up to you.

          • I agree rev Ike, I have said before ppl forget to look at all sides and go deeper in. Is why I always ask for the links to thier information when something really catches my eye 🙂 Even mac got my requests the other day and was kind enough to point me to the origin of his info.

        • CH: The dollar is supported by the full faith and credit of the United States, and the most powerful military force ever assembled.

          That’s why everybody wants them! 🙂

          Its a rush to safety if not quality. Send your FRN to me if you don’t want them. I’ll give you a dime apiece. Fair enough?

          • DK: I agree about our military, but the full faith, and credit of the U.S. government. The credit of the government is behind the 8 ball( to me anyway) the last time I looked. Yes we are the biggest on the the block, but just one little old nuke up in the air(EMP) and game over. Oh by the way will the dollar be any good after the SHTF, or don’t you think it not going to HTF.

            • CH: I say “full faith and credit of the United States” tongue in cheek, but it is true. The debt load is bad but it has been 20% higher historically, so no need to panic; but reason enough to demand that OUR employees address it.

              After all, its OUR money.

              WE are in the last Days, for however long they last, so there is no reason to panic because the stock market dropped a few hundred points. It happens all the time. Trust me, someone made a profit on its way down. That the name of that game. There are many challenges ahead, but nothing WE cannot handle together as a united nation.

              I do not expect the real SHTF until 2015. Until then every new experience is an opportunity for US to prepare, grow, and work together.

              There is power in numbers. Join a group. Multiple your power. Let your Barnhardt out.
              Many voices together can bring down the house that the PTB have shamefully created.

              But there is nothing to fear.

            • DK

              We had high debt post WW2 but held a lot of aces. We had 90% of the worlds gold, we exported oil, we had intact industry while 2/3 of the world lay in ruin.

              It’s apples and peaches to compare then and now. The differences far outweigh the similarities.

            • Honestly it will take more then one little nuke. They have an AoE ( area of Effect ) also as an IE: we have two first response ACC’s one in each ocean with support boats. Not to mention the special operations teams based or in active operation around the world and country. The emp would have to be much larger then a nuke is able to bring to the table. Just an EoD perspective. Hurt us yes put us down and out, no.

            • K2: Regarding “apples and oranges”. The only relevant item is whether the GDP can carry the debt service.

              The rest of the things you mentioned are superfluous.

          • Agreed.
            Those in the know, have always understood that the dollar is not backed by precious metals…but by a huge arsenal of efficient thermonuclear weapons & super accurate delivery systems! Thumbs up to Mr. Kidd.

            • Anton Hacki

              I guess the oil peg was a waste of time?

              I’m looking for the relationship of nukes verses economy to connect the dots. If we manufacture nothing but nukes will the world still hold our USD? What about others who have nukes?

            • @ K2

              In truth Kevin, you make an excellent point.
              From an economic standpoint, the fairly recent emergence of the BRIC cartel…meaning Brazil, Russia, India & China, represents a serious challenge to the old “Brenton Woods” agreement, as three of the four countries are serious nuclear powers. They’ve agreed to trade without US dollars. Its plausible that this business model will expand, globally.

              I suspect, Brazil could probably produce nuke-warheads pretty damn quick, in a pinch. They’re some smart folks down there.

              Then you have Iran, who aren’t building nukes being lambasted daily because in truth, they are accepting payment for their crude oil resources outside the dollar monopoly exchange…this is the real reason we’re gonna eventually lay waste to their country…and soon.
              Saddam tried that sh*t & so did Qaddafi.
              Look what happened to them!

              Likely the relationship you’re searching for, resides in the realm of geo-political hubris, with a serious dose of WW-III and the collapse & rejection of the empire’s globally mandated debt-based currency…as the ultimate culprit.

              You’re right, nukes won’t save us.

          • No problem; you send me a pre 1964 US dime and I’ll send you dollars all day. That’s the issue here. We know what was done to get a dime worth $2.30. Now they are doing things ten times worse. Wages aren’t going up; when a dime is $23.00 a lot of people won’t be able to eat. Why do you think we had so many riots the last time food went up?

            • Parnoid: Good point!

          • What a bunch of unadulterated B.S.

            • That was directed at DK, by the way.

            • Walt: I knew that! 🙂

          • durango kid, you are now getting cocky and are exposing your weak hand in the process.

      30. Y’all Beware, that’s some of the best satire I’ve ever heard. Copperhead, could your friend in USGS be referring to the two situations in Louisiana, the sinkhole and/or the bunker explosion? I’m only an hour’s drive from the southern end of New Madrid Fault. If it goes, I’m screwed. braveheart

        • BH: I don’t know for sure, but I’ll no they are not conncted to the two events you stated.

        • Braveheart–I’m in central southern ky.
          I’m also screwed. I always laughed at the crazy Californians and Floridians for not leaving when the storms were coming.
          I’m not laughing now–I found out; it ain’t that easy.

      31. Rev. Ike,

        Who would have thought that a 9mm would kick ass – if well placed.

        Y’all Beware! A female friend (who is a nurse)shoots below the belt and as she says “That will stop any man.”

      32. Mac… and a few of the financially savvy here…

        Does anyone think it’s possible that the Fed knew about the financial trouble these large corporations in the market were in, and preemptively decided to initiate QE3? Seems to me it may have been designed to keep Panic out of Wall Street, considering the timing… right before the release of Earnings statements and the end of most corporation’s Fiscal year…I mean 40 Billion a month, indefinitely? That goes a long way to calming things down, doesn’t it? Maybe enough to prevent a LARGER drop in the stock market right before the election? I wonder what happens to the market if that 40 Billion is taken away, say, right before Jan 20th, 2013?
        Not that it’s likely, just entertaining ideas in my head… And really wanting someone who knows more about this stuff than I to share their thoughts on it.

        Also, I’ve been thinking since we have funneled so much money in Stimulus, bailouts, QE1,2,3, why on earth are we watching the stock market as an “Early sign” of financial doom? Seems to me when things are manipulated, they become less reliable as a key indicator.

        Here’s what I would consider a key indicator: I am working for the same pay per/hour as 4 years ago,(Thankfully) but prices for everything have almost doubled, and I don’t mean in some statistic, but actually at the pump, grocery store… on the street level. That means “Someone” gave me almost a 50% pay cut, and now they get more and I get less… at this rate, how long do we have until SHTF?? (Rhetorical.)

        Thanks in advance for your replies. Thanks for the site, Mac!

        • I keep wondering what they got up their sleeve ever since helicopter ben said they were going to keep interest rates at the current levels (zero) until early 2014. Does that mean we got a year until it completely blows up? Do they figure they can keep it rigged until then? Why is the gov’t buying millions of rounds of ammo?

          Something is in the wind. I’m going to keep prepping like its going to happen tomorrow.

          • BTW, I’m in the bio tech business, we had more layoffs yesterday after the the first go around last Monday. I’ll keep posted on what happens next Monday.

          • The full effect of Obamacare kicks in in 2014. Long before that many will lose their jobs, now those who are jobless will have to figure out how to pay the fine for not having health insurance. Clever,eh?

            • I know it is wrong for a christian to say this, much less do it but there is an exit/escape from paying the fine.

              Just say you have converted to Islam. They have already been pre-exempted from the penalties. It’s true!

            • Not–those jobless will be insured by the ones with…Redistribution 101 at its best..only thing wrong is eventually they will run out of other people’s money..and then they have what they are truly working for.
              When I control the oil, I control the world; when I control the food, I control the people.
              I forgot who said that!!

        • @Wildcat – the global banking cabal has been trying to steal all of the wealth of the non-elite for centuries. The coming collapse has been planned for centuries but only since the the Federal Reserve Act of 1913 have they been able to focus their energy for a 100 year engineered collapse. $1.00 in 1913 was worth 100 cents, now $1.00 is only worth about 3 cents. How much farther does the global banking cabal have to go before the end? Well, since the FED has been buying Mortgage Backed Securities with a vengeance (QE3) since this summer to add to their stockpile of Toxic Assets (the other pile of MBS’s they bought after TARP) they probably own 25% of all the real estate in the country now, and by printing the equivalent of $85 Billion per month couple with the EU’s unrelenting money printing things are in very dire straits for the non-elite whom have already been pretty well fleeced of their net worth (asset stripped).

          Now since February of this year, China, Russia, India, Turkey, Africa and the “Non-Ally” Middle Eastern countries have all signed agreements to trade in local currencies or gold, by-passing the US greenbacks and US petro-dollars – effectively short circuiting the global economic stranglehold the US has had on the world. What this means is that the volume of US dollars floating around the globe with no usefulness is increasing at a staggering rate (not to mention the $85 billion per month thank to FED Chairman Ben)which means that the value of the dollar is rapidly decreasing globally and those depreciating dollars will most assuredly come home to the US to further dilute the money supply – causing a repeat of the Wiemar Republic in the USA.

          This is happening right now.

          The Stock Market is manipulated, pay no attention to it. For proof of this, look at Monday’s DJIA, down over 100 points for the day, but rallied up over 100 points in the last hour of trading to close green just in time for the final UN-Presidential debate…

          The Banksters and Politicians know that the only thing holding the economy together is consumer confidence. At the point at which there is a loss of confidence (either in the markets or among holders of US currency) in the almighty dollar is the point that the Shit Hits The Fan.

          • Merbach, great answer to Wildcat! The Petro-dollar and or bond failing will be the real kicker. The stock market can go down but someone wins when that happens and they just put back in which brings up confidence. They ahve confidence that 40 billion will continue to be pumped so they can dump. It’s the takers that are not part of the system that loose. Every time they loose our cost goes up.

        • Wildcat: Everyone needs to understand that QE is DESIGNED to protect the balance sheet of the banks and preserve their liquidity ratios.

          Any secondary effect like for the stock market is fortunate serendipity, but it tells investors that the banks are backstopped. It also gives the GB’s a little more cash to gamble with: OUR cash.

          Once the robo signing agreement with the gov’t was signed the banks began the foreclosure process again. They will have to mark these assets to market and this will cause them to bleed losses, affecting their LR. de-leveraging is only 50% completed.

          There are several million homes in pre-foreclosure and another 12 million homes underwater, but where the home owner is current on the mortgage.

          The stock market is the canary in the coal mine for financial investors. They have hundreds of millions of dollars riding on their trades so they watch the market for any hint of trouble; or opportunity.

          If you put all your eggs in one basket it is wise to keep your eyes on the basket.

          • As I understand it, the Federal Reserve was created to
            “smooth out” the natural highs and lows of a capitalistic economy. It seems as though their fiddling has gotten out of hand, and prevents the market from “clearing”. We have to have clearing for capital to flow to the most productive ventures. It seems that the process of limiting pain is causing even more widespread pain.
            What’s beter? To die,grieve and move on; or to be on life support for years with no hope of recovery?

            • beter? better. oops

        • QE is designed to keep the government afloat, banking increasing bank profits would be collateral impact. The Fed is already giving banks cash whenever they need it at next to 0%. The big bank stocks never recovered from 2008, they are zombies at this point.

          QE allows the fed to print money and buy federal debt claiming that they are injecting money in the economy. What they are really doing is preventing interest rates from rising as China and other countries stop buying US debt. The Fed is not the largest purchaser of US debt. If the interest rates go up, game over.

          It is no different that the Euro central banks stepping in to buy Italian or Spanish government debt to prevent the market from fairly pricing it.

        • Wildcat

          The bigger question would be did the fed make all this happen? And is the fed through QE3 taxing the poor with inflation? And just 1 more do we really think that this can be solved with a election? I think we all know those answers, The facts are the rich get richer and the poor get poorer. Been this way for a long time and will go on for many more years..Americans are not waking up as fast as they need to. Some ask when we think the SHTF Look around buddy that fan can hold much more shyt before it breaks down..


          • DPS and DK have known this for some time. I’m not sure why so many comments they make get the bad thumb. Heck even Kevin knows a bit. I’ve learned much from all of your posts and have been studing for some time. Hopefully this site is hear for years to come. I think we all need to know we are not in it alone. We all can’t be nuts!

            • disector284

              When your accused of being nuts and it’s coming from people that read nothing of value, spend the bulk of their time worshipping the sphere and have the foresight of an ostrich be happy because it’s frightening to think that caliber of person might agree with you.

            • True that K2

            • Dissector: I have a fan club! 🙂

      33. Been lurking for a while but never posted. Just thought I would say it before someone else does. “I blame the ZOG inspired Jesuits and neocon Liberal cabal Zionists based in Chicago”. Rusty Shakelford, signing off. Back to lurking.

      34. This isnt serious. The stock market looked a lot worse last fall and still had plenty of smoke and mirrors to get people to keep buying it. It’s going to have to drop another 500 points to even have anyone think something might be wrong and that’s not going to happen when the FED is putting your money and your childrens money in regularly.

        • Satori

          Thanks for the link/info..being at the heart of the possible noreaster..
          It appears now that ‘sandy’ is headed for Jamaica.

          Will watching daily for updates and track/forecast models.


      35. Long time observer, 2nd time post…
        Oh how I wish to see some Oakie. Where’s the humor when I need it!?

        • Sorry, forgot the name: smokinokie!

        • I second that!
          Truth be suspected, I reckon the humor-master needs a break now & again too.

          Maybe he’s charging his batteries for an epic performance…give him time.
          He won’t disappoint us.
          Never has.

          • Thanks for the kind words Anton!
            Actually, I’ve been real busy training new drivers. It’s a challenge to say the least! (I never knew my Freightliner could do a wheelie)
            These new guys are great with technology, but some of them struggle to grasp the easier concepts. Like downshifting. I’d tell you about the trip down Snoqualmie Pass in Washington but it’d just bring on another flashback. (I told the trooper we were only going 5 mph for each wheel, but he wasn’t amused)

            • Thanks for starting my day w/a grin, Okie!!!

              I am so stealing that 5 miles per wheel line!

            • Prayin’ you keep the shiney side up.

      36. An older brother of mine died 6 months ago down on our family farm, so this past saturday my wife and I were cleaning up the house and found a jar of taster’s choice freeze dried coffee with an expiration date of Jan 2005. This evening I tied a cup of that coffee and was amazed by the taste, the stuff was still good and probably would’ve lasted many more years.

        I know this is a little off topic but just wanted to share the info hoping others can benefit from my find!

        • Thanks for sharing, Bandalero. I too drink Taster’s Choice and find the flavor holds for a long time if kept sealed up. I hadn’t thought about it lasting for 7 years though.

          We have been stocking up on it and will probably buy a case for each other for Christmas. Too me, it is one of those daily “luxury” items that we don’t want to do without when SHTF. Just like popcorn and jug wine in the evening.

        • We are still drinking Y2K coffee, have about 24 “big” (metal) cans left. I can’t tell the difference, but I need cream and sugar. Can’t seem to keep fruit very long in the can. (less then 2 years) Opened up some cherry pie filling (from Y2k) and it was dark. (not bright red)It had a metal taste to it.

          I voted to us it, Mrs. Hillbilly voted that down. (She was making the pie) : ) Still have a bunch of Chunky soups that have an expire date of 04/05 and they are still great. Same with Chef Boy-Ar-Dee and veggies. I let my nose be the judge. I’m still kicking.

      37. This may sound cold but I bet a lot of those that are joining the ranks of poverty were people who were once gainfully employed and borrowed very cent they could get to make it look like they had more than they really had. Then they lost their jobs, and everything they bought on credit.

        The rich rules over the poor,
        And the borrower becomes the lender’s slave. Pr 22:7

        • Hopefully, just like after the Great Depression, the immediate generation following will get better advise on how live their lives.
          We got a bit arrogant, and forgot or chose to ignore Grandpa’s advise.

      38. What I wonder is when there is a loss on stocks, or futures or deritives There are winners and losers the money is going somewhere.. Who is winning during all of this? China? Corporations? Central Banks? Can someone tell me?

        • Joe follow the $$$ trails…It all ends up in the pockets of Bolsheviks & Zionists…aka..jewbanksters and whoever has joined with them, aka polititions-msm-big corp gentiles.

          Todays fast get rich method is…#1 Sell your Soul to Lucifer/satan….#2 Sell your serveice/time/labors to satans kids aka jewszios…

          #3= Better run Fast when the rest awaken and come gunning!

        • the jesuit order wins, everyone else loses. get it?

      39. FWIW, I don’t see how Romney wins the electoral college, so I think Obama wins 2012. Then the collapse comes. I could be wrong; the media could be simply not reporting a Romney groundswell, but I think he nailed it. 47% won’t vote for him. The majority of that 47% live in elector rich states. Even if Romney wins the popular vote, he probably won’t win.

        The US goes Greek sometime between 2013-2015, shortly after Israel is destroyed and the EU collapses.

        • Israel will be “supernaturally” protected. You can count on it. God has not brought Israel back into being a nation again to let the infidels destroy it. It’s His favorite place on earth. It’s where He will set up the temple and the throne for eternity.

          Israel will take some hits, but there won’t be many before the fire from Hell will be unleashed. In other words, a fire that will take many to Hell.

          Watch Jerusalem; it’s the barometer for all things around the world.

          • my opinion is that those who bow to either rome or jerusalem, should go there. and stay. the rest of us will live freely and i suppose go to hell as you see it. fine. i will live in heavan and die in hell and you can live in hell and die in heavan. does anyone else understand how ridiculous all of this cow crud is? this is f*(&ing nonsense. can all religious people please stop being so afariad of your own shadow and your certain death , that causes you to litterally make your and everyone else on earths lives a living hell?

      40. Arco, I’m sad to say you are correct. I’m debt-free, don’t owe a dime to anybody for anything, so I can get more supplies at one time than I would’ve been able to otherwise. TPTB can keep the show going for only so long. All the smoke and mirrors in the world won’t stop the economic collapse from happening. Politicians can only kick the can down the road until they reach the ‘dead end’. All roads end somewhere. Rev. Ike, that ammo you mentioned earlier, is that available in .22LR? Braveheart

      41. @Bandalero, really don’t know what to say…

      42. Satori,

        Thanks again for the info on East Coasters.

        The strength of such storms is amazing and nothing to treat lightly!

        Y’all Beware! Been through enough hurricanes to know.

      43. YB, I’ve been through my share of hurricanes in South Florida from 75-82. You haven’t lived til’ you’ve been through a hurricane. braveheart

      44. here’s my guess at the way the election will go:
        1. in many swing states, results will be too close to call.
        2. O####Bam***a will demand a recount of any results that are closer than 5%.
        3. This will postpone the official swearing in of any president, untill all the legal challenges have been heard. this could take months.
        4. Rom***n***ey claims victory, and demands to be sworn in.
        5. O&&&boy declares an emergency, and institutes mar**t**ia**l law.
        6. this causes riots, and later, civil war, which is what the ones in power want anyway. nothing but chaos.
        8. This has been your election day forecast, as seen in my official crystal ball, or just a good guess.

        • Agreed, if it is not a complete blow-out for Romney that the MSM can’t twist, the election will take months to be certified.

      45. Man I really love reading this site,I have learned some really great things, from all of you. And for that I give thanks. But I believe our pain and suffering will go on for many more yrs, the Elite are just getting started. Until we stop them or they stop us it will go on for many yrs.. Some say gold is going to 2500.00 per oz and oil will go to 200.00 a barrel.. But then again I’m still waiting to see the the blood flow in the streets from last winter..I will always be a prepper but All this Doom and gloom has really got me bummed out.. It maybe time to wakeup and smell the coffee and enjoy my life before we go to war with ourselves..


        But then again maybe I created my own prison…

        • With ya DPS. I don’t even remember how I wound up here, but I have learned a lot. I think it was when I finally got a canner and was looking for info. Anyway, what I’ve learned is I am pretty much done for. No guns, no ammo, no silver, no gold, no night vision, on and on. Credit cards charged and not much to show for it, really, dont know how that happened, I have even been worrying about “debtors prisons” in the future, maybe in the FEMA camps? But I AM a good cook, so if SHTF I hope someone needs one!

        • Sometimes you just need a few weeks away from the computer. Don’t ever stop living life.

        • DPS: Lots of O;i & Gas in the States, even more energy. There is also a lot of data about consumer behavior and the price point at any given time where consumers will cut back their driving and gasoline purchases.

          The intent is to maximize income of course, so prices are pushed to the point where demand falls, and the cycle starts all over again.

          The recent spike and manipulation of prices in California is designed to establish a new high (at a market top), so that consumers are conditioned for the new top next time around.

          $200 pbo may happen eventually but the PTB are in business to maximize profit and they can’t maximize profit if price out paces the consumers ability to pay and demand crashes.

          Its called price sensitivity.

      46. Well. there’s one bright spot in the economy…
        NEWS BULLETIN!! Monsanto Announces Merger With Barnum & Bailey. Analysts Predict Robust Growth In Bread & Circuses Industry

        • oakie: Does that mean Animal Crackers will now be made out of GMO wheat?

          Just asking …..

          • It’s like Soylent Green for animals!

      47. @ DPS

        No…discard the prison idea. Instead, hop on the way-back machine & goto some past x-date, say 15-18 years ago. Now imagine somebody pops up & begins sketching out reality in 2012 & tells you that you’d better get serious about prepping for a future catastrophe…what would be your likely reaction to such an opinion?
        Would you have taken their warnings seriously, back then?
        Would you have begun arranging your priorities to meet their info, right away?

        Go easy on yourself DPS.
        No one here possesses a 100% accurate crystal ball. Nobody!
        As individuals we review the data & mull over the likely consequences, then we act upon or reject said data as individuals, do we not?

        We all have different opinions as to likely ‘this is it’ scenarios…& we argue amongst ourselves per the merits of our opinions, on every thread line.
        Optimists & pessimists banter & vote daily here!

        That said, in the end it is only your personal opinion that carries the water, per your situation & per your family’s survival prospects…pending what’s coming.

        My advice would be to stick with what DPS is comfortable with…what gives DPS, peace of mind! Same per everyone else.
        Understand that you cannot change or alter the resulting ‘big picture’ outcome. Its too late for that, don’t you agree?
        Instead, focus on what you do have some control over, mainly…mitigating its impact upon those you love & hold dear to your heart.
        Remember, “importance” has its own hierarchy!

        Just do it your way & let the cards fall where they may.
        But I would, if I were you, seek divine protection & guidance whilst on this journey.
        Best of luck to you & yours…and everyone else reading this post.

        P.S.> How did the hunting trip go? Hope your freezer is full. See Daisy, Copperhead & a few others for meat canning details.

        Goodnight dude!

      48. Fun & Games With Lang-widge

        I was visiting my daughter the other day when my 7 yr old grand daughter came home from school. She promptly informed us that one of her classmates got in big trouble “for saying the F-word.”
        My daughter shot me a glance that said ‘Don’t you DARE open your mouth’ then turned to her child “Well, honey, we all know we shouldn’t say things like that. Don’t we?”
        “That’s right, Mama. We should never say the F-word.” She recited it like a communist party slogan or something. I was shocked at how apparently brainwashed the child was.
        “You mean to tell me, we’re not allowed to say Frankenstein?” I asked, quickly clamping my hand on my mouth and looking guilty.
        My daughter shot a few daggers at me. “Pay no attention to your Grandpa. He’s knows the word and he’s just being silly.”
        I wandered around the living room, scratching my head and looking perplexed. “France?… Frog?… French fries?”
        My big eyed little princess giggled at me. “No Grandpa. He said the other kid was fat.” She then recoiled in horror. “Oh Mama, I’m sorry. I didn’t mean to..” she stammered in genuine fright.
        “There, there, sweetie. Grandpa will take us all out to Mickey Dee’s for a hot F-word sundae and everything will be fine.”

        • Hey SmokinOkie! Nice to see you back!

          • Thanks NP 🙂

        • Thanks Oak! That just tickeled the F, right out of me.

        • I had a similar situation with my son when he was about 6 years old.

          “My friend got in trouble for saying the S word. He can’t say that bad word in school.”

          Really, what did he say?

          “I can’t say it but I can spell it.

      49. @ Be Informed – 6.5 in Costa Rica. Things are shaking up! Curious if this effects the Madrid?

        • You may have been right!

      50. Mirbach, durango kidd, DPS, THANKS for your insight.


        Mirbach, Good stuff, man! I appreciate your contribution, and can relate to it!
        I know that kinda sounds silly…Retro… but it comes from the heart.
        Ohh, and FWIW, The Global banking Cabal has almost half of my NOTHING already… I guess if everyone in the country gave me a dollar… or them…

        durango kidd: Hello from a fellow Arizonan!

        Ok, since you used the “Eggs in a basket” analogy, let me explain my thought from my original post this way: If I could get away with putting Plastic “Easter Eggs” in your basket of real eggs, to the point the plastic “Easter Eggs” falsely led you to believe you had more “real Eggs” than you actually do, would you still want to keep your eye on the basket, or would you want to understand how you have been so deceived, and how to prevent it from this point on?

        DPS, I may be a fool financially, but I’m definitely not a fool completely! (LOL! I know.. it’s MY opinion, and we all know what opinions are and what they are worth…)
        Anyway, I see what’s going on in the world brother, this election and many before it have been “Bread and Circus”.
        The only political question I have is WHY ON EARTH would anyone want to inherit this mess… It even seems at times Obama WANTS Romney to take it. While I’m on the subject, I don’t believe the Presidential race is actually close. I think that it is just the media trying to portray a close race because it is money and ratings to them… I mean seriously… hard economic times, and you think they will look a “gift Horse” in the mouth?

        I KNOW… I KNOW… the liberal media, blah, blah, blah… But each one of them has bills to pay, and so does their employer, and they have all sold their souls…

        I just want to see things for what they are when they happen, and not AFTER they happen… (Who doesn’t, right?)
        I guess I’m just trying to make sense of the part I understand the least… You know… In case I’m around to warn my Grand kids what to look for…(They are babies now…)

        Sorry… Rambling…

      51. “ALL IS WELL …


        “MOVE ALONG …. CARBON CREDIT VAT Tax Debt SssssssssLAVES !!!”

        ;0) BWaaa HA HA HA …

        “GOT LEAD ???”

        “GOT FOOD ???”

        “GOT WATER FILTERS ???”

        “GOT SILVER ???”

        “GOT B.O.B ???”

        ;0p pssszzt

        … times up … do you known where your $$$ money is ???


      52. Following the sun around the globe makes clear the level on coordination and manipulation from central banks. Just look at last months fake drop in unemployment and last nights fake production from China. When the financial markets start to slide some countries come up with some incredible news that never really materializes, but gets everyone to look at the head fake.

        Here are just a few head lies. Greece deal, Spanish deal, ECB bailouts approved, new euro bonds, housing markets recover, car sales recover. I mean come on folks they have been using the same propaganda for 4 years. Hell on CNBC they don’t even change the photos in the article.

        It stops the slide they revise the numbers quietly, but the good news never materializes because its fake.

        • Update!! Go look at the head lie on new home sales on CNBC as of 10:30am today. See what I mean?? Read it, especially the part on the previous months downward revision.

          Am I the only one who sees these things??



        The 2012 presidential election is still more than two weeks away, but on Friday a CBS News affiliate in Arizona called the race for President Barack Obama.

        For 17 seconds, Phoenix, Arizona CBS News affiliate KPHO ran a lower third graphic that showed that Obama had won the Nov. 6 election over Gov. Mitt Romney with 99% of the precincts reporting.”


        • Good, I guess that I’ll save the gas and not vote then (sarc) really scary stuff

      54. I’ll give my thoughts on this subject my gut feelings on the web zero hedge David Rosenburg on the s&p 500 said they are at a standstill and all commerce is in the red never has this happened and as history always repeats it’s self oct 29 1929 was Black Tuesday Tuesday 2012 is one day off from 1929’s date and I have heard to much on the web saying the markets are going to crash and I do believe this will happen a crash in the markets at the end of oct

        • @ Karen,

          Ditto. Real-people’s money has been going out of the market for over 15 months at a rate of 6-11 Billion a month. The only option that the ‘Big Boys’ have is to continue to ‘thrash’ the market higher and higher in an attempt to lure people back in…it don’t look like anyone is going to swallow that hook. Failing that the market will drop as the earning’s spigot dry up and that’s the point at which it’ll all get sticky. It’ll come down then to which of the BB run for the exits first, the markets will drop and the rest will get nervous and do the same. Get your Preps stocked up Folks …it’s going to be a long, hard winter….

      55. I’ll tell you exactly when the SHTF. It is happening right now! also if the New Madrid fault goes it will be TEOTWAWKI. We have been lucky so far and luck is a stupid thing to bank on.

      56. Off topic, but if anyone is looking for useful information on how my “people” (hillbillies) used to do things, practical and easy to understand skills from the past can be found in the “Foxfire” series of books. Everything from log cabin building to butchering a hog.

        Just haven’t seen it mentioned here a source.

        • My grandfather was a huge fan, having come from literal dirt poverty to success. He made all 60+ grandkids do projects out of Foxfire. I built a traditional cabin by hand, including making the tools, slaughtered hogs the hard way (I’ll never do it again), and hunted & farmed. He used to say, everyone needs to know how to feed themselves, just in case. He went through poverty, great depression, and Guadalcanal…

          I need to get a new set, mine are so old I can’t turn the pages. Thanks for reminding me about the series.


        When a Milk Cow Becomes a Beef Cow
        Tom Chatham


        Guilford Co. voters say ballot cast for Romney came up Obama on machine

        • actually you do nina. its a security bond on your birth certificate. though it doesnt come with out serious ramifications, up to and including the church of jesu seeing to it your life ends sooner than later.YOU CAN ELIMINATE UP TO 1,000,000 OF DEBT USING YOUR BIRTH CERTIFICATE. the trade off? you are under constant threat of death, destruction and lawsuits by the order of jesu if you do this.

      59. hahahaahhaahha, woooof woooof!!! aaaoooooooow!!!

      60. I would give $5 (to his charity of choice) if he releases his college papers too.

        • @ Anonymous

          Obama’s charity of his choice?

          That would likely be whatever homosexual in vogue that he employs for oral sex or a corn-hole session.
          Call it a $5 tip.

          On top of all his faults, Obama is a dedicated FAG! So is his former chief of staff, Rham Emanuel. See the $$$ exclusive Chicago bath-house perversions for details!

          Michelle & the 2 little niglets are nothing more than window dressing.

          Do some research, dude. The info is out there!

      61. The “markets” are propelled by money printing. They don’t mean a thing as to where we stand at this point.

        Reality is what you see looking out your own window.

      62. Gold Bitchez !

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