Doomsday Fear Mongers Get It Right Again: “The Credit Card is Maxed Out. It’s Over. It’s Over.”

by | Dec 22, 2010 | Headline News | 124 comments

Do you LOVE America?


    By now, you’ve likely come across the recent 60 Minutes segment titled State Budgets: Day of Reckoning. If you have yet to view it, you can do so below.

    Millions of Americans who have been told that our economy is now in a period of recovery may be surprised to learn that most states are so broke that they are left with no other choice but to cut spending on literally everything. Governor Christie of New Jersey is, according to 60 Minutes, the canary in the mine:

    We spent too much on everything. We spent money just crazily. The credit card’s maxed out. It’s over. It’s over.

    For readers of this web site and other alternative news and contrarian outlets this report was to be expected. We’ve been reporting on, and our readers have been contributing their insights via comments for quite some time – at least a couple of years now – about the fundamental problems facing our country. For those who have questioned their own sanity, or have had their sanity questioned by friends and family when trying to spread the message of preparing for the Greatest Depression, Governor Christie just proved that you’ve been right all along:

    Where am I getting the money? I don’t have it. I literally don’t have it.

    It’s not like you can avoid it forever because it’s here now. We all know it’s here. And the Federal government doesn’t have the money to paper over it anymore either for the states. The day of reckoning has arrived. And it’s going to arrive everywhere.

    Unlike the federal government, states don’t have the ability to issue debt and print as much money as is needed via the digital presses at the Federal Reserve. They are left with no choice but austerity measures via spending cuts. And, as Charlie McGrath pointed out recently, Austerity will hit America like an Eight Pound Sledgehammer.

    Earlier this year, we discussed the Collapse of Dysfunctional States as Another Step To The Federal Bubble Detonation, and according to mainstream reports as of late, we’re well on our way to complete destruction of the way of life as we have come to know it in our spend and consume society.

    If you thought the housing bubble was bad, consider what financial analyst Meredith Whitney has to say about state and local governments. Take note that it was Whitney who blew the doors open on the problems in housing and the excessive leverage in the banking system – which led to the collapse that has left us where we are today. And while investment houses and ratings agencies are still promoting municipal bonds as a great way to preserve wealth, you might want to sleep on Whitney’s latest comments before you go all in:

    It has tenticles as wide as anything I’ve seen. I think next to housing this is the single most important issue in the United States and certainly the largest threat to the US economy.

    When asked why no one is doing anything about it, Whitney provides an answer that is as true today as it was before the housing bubble pop:

    Because they don’t pay attention until they have to.

    It is only at the precipice of disaster that people, especially politicians and vested interests, are willing to change.

    The worst thing about all of this, is that, as Meredith Whitney suggested, the states will likely find a solution to their problems. Our view is that this solution will come down to massive, unprecedented bailouts from the Federal government. Not billions – not trillions more will be printed.

    We maintain our previous forecast, though we can’t put a specific timeline on it, that the collapse of state governments will eventually lead to the largest bubble detonation in history – financier George Soros refers to it as the Super Bubble and trend forecaster Gerald Celente calls it the Government Bubble:

    How long will this be?

    It’s hard to say, but in terms of the states, we’re likely looking at sooner rather than later. States are already broke, with California, Illinois and New Jersey already showing serious fiscal strain. In the near future we’ll begin seeing states requesting bailouts directly from the federal government. Eventually, we suspect that the majority of states will be standing in the welfare line looking for hand outs.

    For now, the US dollar remains fairly strong given our economic problems. In fact, any time a financial emergency spreads across the globe, investors seem to be running to US bonds for safety, so there is still confidence in the US government’s ability to service our existing debt.

    However, we believe that once the states begin to require federal involvement to pay government workers, emergency responders and pensioners, we will be much closer to a serious collapse of not only our economic system, but the monetary system as well. It’s only a matter of time before the rest of the world realizes that we’re completely broke and takes action accordingly.

    The states blew a government spending bubble, and that bubble is about to pop. The federal debt bubble will not be far behind.

    Naturally, there will be skeptics. In fact, most are skeptical of the possibility of a complete collapse of the US Dollar and our way of life, but it is in process as we speak.

    Just like the states, the federal government will soon be on the precipice.

    Meredith Whitney says that municipal bond defaults will start occurring in scores over the next 12 months. We’ll see what the federal government does, but our guess is more bailouts – hey it worked before!

    But who will bail out the $150 Trillion (official figure) government debt bubble?

    Any takers?

    Yeah, we didn’t think so.

    View 60 Minutes’ State Budgets – Day of Reckoning:


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      1. “50-100 municipal bond defaults in the next 12 months.” 

        The cascading cross defaults this will unleash will be “unbailout-able.”  It won’t just be the local municipalities that get crushed (which will be bad enough), but the bond holders residing all over the country who lose their principal, who in turn either begin to default on their obligations or retract spending in their local markets, who in turn….

        Just so I get this straight…
        Prospects for 2011:
        1)  Another Alt-A mortgage adjustment phase on the horizon
        2)  Commercial Real Estate bubble requiring loan rollovers with
              debt-to-equity ratios inverted
        3)  Unemployment officially reported at 9.6%, but actually just
              under 23%
        4)  Over 45 Million on Food stamps
        5)  Fed will complete the phase in of inflationary QE2 ($600B)
        6)  Monthly trade deficit is averaging around $30B/month
        7)  Food staples have just undergone a 50-75% cost increase
        8)  And now, states & munis are at the precipice of bankruptcy
              all over the country…

        Mushroom might be right.  You people are WAY to pessimistic around here.  Recovery, HERE WE COME! 

      2. The days of spend and pretend are coming to an end fairly quickly.  Looks like the great fountain of debt is finally going dry. 

      3. Comments…..i have been telling folks to pull their belts in and pay off everything they can while stocking up on the necessities. i have been given the “look” which means they would have me locked up in the looney bin if i were not their friend or their relative. well, they can “look” all they want….long as they don’t come to me begging for handouts…cuz they ain’t getting nothing but maybe a hindend full of buckshot. i plan on surviving this and maybe coming out on top.

      4. They will keep propping things up, and probably pocketing money that doesn’t belong to them, building up their own purses. I really believe that. I do think that it is going to be tough this year. Do any of you see any company doing a lot of hiring? Do you see Congress demanding that NAFTA be overturned? How long did it take Congress to honor the First Responders to 911? 9 long years of not caring for them. Our government is a bunch of shits. That is all they are, that is most of what they do. It is a ponzi scheme for sure.

      5. Great article, even if the news is all bad. I for one cannot wait till this blows and we get it over with. Like having that I gotta puke feeling but its not coming yet…
        @yourdaddy, hope you don’t mind but I pasted your bullet points in a fb comment/link, perfect list of (bad) prospects on the horizon (I think some are here now, we just haven’t seen the smoke yet)

      6. Comments….. Here’s what’s going on in San Francisco:

        Retiree Health Care to Cost San Francisco $4.4 Billion, City Sets Aside $9.7 Million to Cover Costs

        Unfunded health care liabilities are mounting in nearly every city in the nation. In some of the larger cities, the difference between funding and liabilities is staggering. For example, take San Francisco where Retiree Care to Cost City $4.4 Billion

        After months of delays, the San Francisco controller’s office announced Thursday that it expected the city to pay $4.4 billion to provide municipal retirees and their dependents with lifetime health benefits. The city has set aside $9.7 million to cover the costs.

        In an interview, Benjamin Rosenfield, the city’s controller, said that the situation would be worse if the city had not enacted changes that went into effect last year. New city employees must pay 2 percent of their salary into a health care trust fund. Requirements to receive lifetime coverage were also tightened.

        But Mr. Rosenfield said tens of thousands of employees are still entitled to lifetime coverage, and they pay nothing into the fund.

        To put the $4.4 billion liability in perspective, San Francisco has borrowed $2.6 billion through general obligation bonds in its entire history.

        All city employees hired before 2009 were promised lifetime health care after five years of work. The coverage includes all dependents, and it does not matter how long before retirement the employee stopped working for the city.

        In November 2009, the United States Government Accountability Office studied retiree health care liabilities of the 39 largest local governments. San Francisco’s then-$4 billion tab ranked No. 6 on the list, behind larger cities like New York and Los Angeles.

        Preposterous Deals Explained

        Why citizens of San Francisco keep electing officials who agree to these preposterous deals is at first glance incomprehensible. Yet, the situation is easily explained.

        The union is in bed with city politicians, and via campaigns of fear mongering, coercion, and massive union-funded ad campaigns, unthinking voters keep returning corrupt politicians to city hall.

        Outrageous City Response to Crisis

        Just look at that outrageous city response to the crisis. Going forward, new city employees must pay 2 percent of their salary into a health care trust fund. That is a smashing kick in the teeth of city taxpayers by those running the city into the ground.

        The city would have massive applications for jobs even if the employees had to pick up at 100%.

        Judging from the health-care deficiency alone, not even counting unfunded pension liabilities, it is safe to assume San Francisco is bankrupt.

        Look at Rosenfield’s statement: If the city is unable to set aside large sums to address the growing liability, Mr. Rosenfield said, one viable solution would be that “over time and through collective bargaining” current city employees contribute more.

        With that statement, it is easy to see Rosenfield is totally incompetent, and unfit for public office. For starters what’s with the “IF the city is unable” nonsense? There is no “IF” about this: The city clearly does not have $4.4 billion, nor does it have any viable means of getting $4.4 billion.

        Moreover, and worse yet, collective bargaining is itself one of the problems. The problem and the solution cannot be the same. Thus, anyone who thinks collective bargaining with public unions “over time” is a viable solution is either in bed with union leaders or a complete fool. I suspect both.

        Mike “Mish” Shedlock

        Of course this is not sustainable–retirees will take it in the shorts.

      7. The statistics aren’t in front of me right now but the debt securities market is orders of magnitude larger than the equities market. When the bubble pops, Officer Friendly might not be responding to yer burglary in progress call. Ya might want to be able to defend yerself. Wouldn’t it be grand if the local propaganda mills, er public schools, had to close?  Also, there’s no necessary reason why most government-provided services couldn’t be provided privately, if they are necessary to do at all. My largest obligation year after year is real estate taxes on my home. Mostly to pay salaries of a sycophant class providing services I don’t benefit from. Let those who benefit pay. word to the wise.

      8. So the states are going to come hat in hand to the feds who will mercifully bail them out.  I can’t think of a better way to eliminate any last traces of state sovereignty that might otherwise still linger.  Welcome to California – a wholly owned subsidiary of the federal government.  Obviously all state offices will need to be appointed by their federal betters during this “emergency”.  If a state can’t balance its books it just shows the superior wisdom of the federal government.  The last vestiges of the old republic can now be safely swept away with fear keeping everyone in line. 

      9. anonymous6.8 said, “Wouldn’t it be grand if the local propaganda mills, er public schools, had to close?”

        That would be grand.
        Maybe then the illiteracy rate would go up and get closer to where it was before the public educational system was created?

        In the meantime, if the FedGov bailed out the states, where would the money come from and do you suppose there are people who actually think that money wouldn’t wind it’s way into, “the system” and help to drive up prices on everything?

        Leaving aside the monetary sterilization and containment question, maybe the FedGov will get the bailout money for the states to delay the cascading-cross defaults from the same secret place they got this other money?:

        “…the fact is that Currency in Circulation is $976.4 billion, which is up $55 billion in the last year, and which is a 6% increase in the cash part of the money supply, which ain’t zero.

        And let’s take a look at the monetary base! It is up $14 billion in just the last week! And the M2 money supply is up about $700 billion in the last year, too, taking M2 to $8,767 billion!

        And let’s not forget that the national debt is horrifyingly up another $1.7 trillion in the last year, zooming the national debt to a staggering $13.8 trillion, which begs the question, “Where in the hell did $1.7 trillion in cash come from, with which investors used to buy this flood of new government debt, if not from the Federal Reserve creating it? Outer space or something?”” – The Mogambo Guru

      10. Great list Bill: Here’s my plan …….

        1. Buy a residential foreclosure for CHEAP
        2. Buy a commercial bank branch with a vault and start my own bank in the aftermath.
        3. Create my own job … oh, that’s right, being doing that for 20 years.
        4. employ square foot gardening in my backyard and sprouting in my extra bathroom.
        5. keep panning and mining for gold
        6. keep saving my loose change
        7. keep prepping, (buy cheap now, eat expensive later)
        8. start a fishery in a barrel (or two or three) in my back yard

      11. Comments…..Anonymous 6.8:  If people want to have services, why not have a volunteer service?  We have a volunteer fire department here, why not volunteer police service?  There’s enough people with guns in their homes to defend themselves against thugs.  It would take some organizing, but I believe it can be done. JMHO.

      12. In every crisis there is a seed of opportunity. The larger the crisis the bigger the seed of opportunity. I believe that this financial stress at the state and local level is a GREAT opportunity for Americans to get control of their government again, from the bottom up!

        Government employees,wages, salaries, and pensions will have to be cut. No choice. Smaller government. Cheaper government. lower taxes.

        30 million illegals will have to go home. The American worker, taxpayer, and family simply cannot afford to subsidize them anymore.

        This is not to scapegoat them. They cost American taxpayers more than $300 billion every year. They go home, jobs open up, unemployment goes down, wages go up.

        When they go home Big Brother’s plan to make them new Americans and impose the NAU on US will disappear with them, back across the border. Too bad NWO!

        Federal lands in the western states belong to the people in those states. Some of it needs to be sold to private interests to pay down government debt in those states and communities.

        How the crisis plays out is yet to be determined. There are a number of scenarios: each with its own challenges and opportunities. You can be a voice, your own voice, at the local level to help determine how it plays out.  Get involved.

        The America you save is your own. Get involved while conditions are plastic. Put your stamp on it.

      13. Lets allow things to find their balance point again,most of the thing govts spend money on nowadays is simply not nessesary and much is actually in moral conflict with the constitution and founding principles,not to mention common decentcy.
        Everything in America from the fed to the dog catcher must be put to a litmus test to see if it lines up with those principles…if not scrap it!
        Ignore the whiners!

        No one is “entitled” to anything they dont pay for themselves,that includes education,you “birthed” the little darlings…you educate them,you feed them ,you provide for them,why is that so hard or cruel?
        I believe in a helping hand now and then but not in the “a gun to the head; you will help me because I’m owed” attitude so preveant today!
        Alot of money could be saved and left with its owners rather than taken at gunpoint from the earners and given to the users,be they welfare takers or govt theives,if you can accept this theft as being okay then you dont understand personal liberty and responsibility,too many out there dont and thats a major reason for this mess!
        Maybe the best thing that can happen is a collapse so that a “reset” is possible,it wont be pleasant,but it is nessesary.Thanks.

      14. The commercial real estate market is an interesting issue.  First, who makes the decisions to renew or not on a mortgage that has been securitized?  The servicer?  There is no decision maker that can be pinpointed.  This is a disaster waiting to happen!

        What about loans with a bank.  The Fed is dictating a lot of non-renewals.  Ever seen the clause in a loan that talks about the loan being able to be called “if the bank’s financial condition changes”?  They are out there.   Can you say absolute disaster?

        Finally, the fed is pushing small banks out of the owner occupied housing loan market and forcing loans to go “3rd Party” i.e. Fannie and Freddie or have crazy low rates.  That is unless the bank has an escrow department.  Who has an escrow department?  Big Banks and Fannie etc.  Why do you think that is?  What happens when they start calling loans due?  Does that mean the gov and gov owned banks would have control over millions of properties?  Reckon that would be used to pay off debt for the gov?  Don’t think it could happen?  Dream on.  Isn’t that how the Wiemar Republic paid off its debt?

        Have fun and hang on, the ride could be a doozy.

               There are some positive, although harsh, results that come from a collapse.
        Americans will once again realize that they don’t need much of what now passes as government.  How many hundreds of thousands of government, and civilian employees of the government, will lose their jobs, and never be missed at all?  I think the governments ability to enforce these new laws they are inacting, will be substantially hampered by the lack of funds to pay  people to enforce them.
              We will seee the first showing of this principle, as states run out of money, which they are now, and simply shut down one program after the other.  Most municipalities better get used to a lack of funding, as the belt will be tightned whether they like it or not.
            Another usefull outcome to the crash, as harsh as it sounds, will be the ability of the cities to renegotiate the over priced contracts of various union contracts with the cities, after they declare bankruptcy.  I’ve already read of many smaller towns having to fire the entire police force, and contract services with the county sherriffs dept, at a much lower cost.  Unions better take heed, and offer to negotiate lower priced contracts, or chance losing their jobs.  I predict they won’t negotiate, and wait till they’re fired.
            Americans have to understand, that very soon, their lives will be changed forever.  Perhaps it will be a return to the past, when there simply wasn’t an entitlement program to take care of every unfortunate thing that was in our society. People just found a way to deal with problems.  Soon, people will have to finally understand, that at some point, programs have to be paid for, and nothing is actually free.
          Soon, many people will come to realize that the government doesn’t actually owe them a job, or a guaranteed anything, as many of them now think.   Change is coming, just not the kind Obama promised.
             How muchlonger do you think people are going to buy the lies that the main stream are peddling?  They are wearing thin if you ask me.  keep prepping, and good luck.

      16. How muchlonger do you think people are going to buy the lies that the main stream are peddling?  They are wearing thin if you ask me.  keep prepping, and good luck.”

        This is what the rapidly forming police state is preparing for.  How many of you really believe that the useless eating masses will be left in peace to sort out the mess?

      17. The States are spending more than the money that they are collecting from taxpayers.  They have to spend based on their income. 

        The other solution to the problems here in US is to stop the fraudulent wars in Iraq and Afghanistan.  Why?  In Iraq alone we already wasted $3 Trillion Dollars and in Afghanistan we already spent more than what we spent in Iraq.  Who benefits from that war rackets?  For sure, it is not the people of US but the too big to fail corpotocracy.

      18. No sooner had I emailed a link to this video, I came to this website and found it was already posted ! Your The Man Mac !
        People who want to know the 411 on SHTF simply need to bookmark this website.
        Merry Christmas, Happy New Year, Keep Prepping, and Good Luck To All !

      19. “Most municipalities better get used to a lack of funding, as the belt will be tightned whether they like it or not.”

        “The States are spending more than the money that they are collecting from taxpayers.  They have to spend based on their income.”

        Unless of course, “they” raise taxes and fees through the roof?

        “It’s an emergency!” and or “It’s for the children!”

        Maybe That’s what the militarization of the police is for,… tax compliance?

        There’s a reason the phrase, “Damn Revenuers” was widely remembered throughout the generations.

        Now I set about to answer for myself,
        “Why the hell would anybody want to be free?”

      20. Xman- Absolutely spot on regarding the “trumped up” wars against “terror.”  (No disrepect intended for our faithful military personnel who are only carrying out their orders).  However, the pretext(s) of war (9-11 & WMD’s) are suspect at best, and US-complicit at worst.  In either case, we have absolutely no business in either of those theaters.

        Anon6.8/DKidd/GoldFox- All good suggestions (i.e. volunteerism, eradicating illegals, shutting down gov’t services etc) however there’s no more denying it…This financial scenario we’re in was planned all along.  The real problem is that TPTB have been setting up the pending worldwide, economic collapse for a long time now.  The tricky part for them was the timing…They needed to ensure that everyone goes down the tubes at virtually the same time, and had to carefully control the pace as the soverign wealth levels of the G20 are all over the spectrum.  It would do them no good to start crashing Europe 10 years ago with the USA still intact.  To take over the world, they need the world to crash simultaneously.  In other words, they had to start chipping away at the USA first, and continue to do so for sometime (10 years) to soften up the under-belly of the biggest economy in the world.  How do you do that without being too obvious…
        1)  Enact a false flag attack against an iconic city, and display video of countries all around the world celebrating the act… “These Americans are loyal patriots, if nothing else, and they won’t stand by quietly as the world mocks their pain…”
        2)  Pin the act on some obscure, under-funded rogue terrorist network and liabelously tie that organization to a fringe, Middle Eastern country & its despot dictator.
        3)  Once that lie has been parrotted over the American MSM 1000’s of times, the Americans will be clamoring for blood…Heck, they won’t even care that they went to war on the false premise of Iraq’s non-existent cache of WMD’s.
        4)  While the war machine is at work to the tune of $2 Billion/day, we’ll “incentivize/force” all lending institutions to bankroll millions of dead-beat mortgages.  This will give the unsuspecting, and highly un-credit worthy public, the notion that “the American dream” is real as they secure financing for a home they’ll never be able to pay back.
        5)  While we’re at it, let’s promote “free credit” via easy to obtain credit cards through our lending arms (JP Morgan, Wells Fargo, BOFA) so that those same unqualified home buyers can pull up into their new driveway in a car they can’t pay for wearing clothes they cannot afford.
        6)  Then, we sit back for a little while and enjoy our handy work…This could take a few years.  Once we’ve got the American public under water, and we own him, we can begin phase two..
        7)  Phase Two (a few years later…say around 2007’ish).  Now that America is virtually crippled, (and the best part is she doesn’t even know it, accept that meddling Peter Schiff) we start accelerating our plan throughout Europe.  Let’s use Lehman, Goldman Saks, Chase and others in the highly speculative debt derivative markets.
        8)  With America now on her belly, we can spread our wares like cancer throughout the weaker nations in Europe (i.e. the PIGS) and start bringing them down.  Goldman can write a bunch of credit default swaps against oh, let’s say Greece, and make money on both sides of the transaction as that tiny country treads to stay above water.
        9)  To really throw a monkey in the works, we’ll attempt to control the food market via our controlled outlet, MONSATO.  We’ll give them power & financing to squeeze out all of the little farmers.  We’ll have them integrate “terminator seeds” throughout the world so that we can severely limit the future supply of staples, and then if we’re able, we’ll even initiate legislation making it illegal for anyone to deviate from our plan.
        9)  Phase Three.  (A year or so later, say 2010’ish)…Now that our handiwork is out in the open, it’s time to use our propaganda arm (the MSM) and let them tell the horror story to all of the masses.  We’ll throw a bone to some of the use-less eaters favs like Glenn Beck, and don’t forget to use 60 Minutes.  At some point, wouldn’t it be great to use Oprah to really incite the obese & unproductive, benefit laden masses?  Oh, that would be rich.  Either way, the worldwide public has proven that they will only listen to the mainstream, and shun (if not hold an acrimonious posture against) all alternative channels of news.  Once we “allow” the MSM to “report” on what we’ve done, we’ll have created a worldwide panic/self-fullfilling prophecy that will accelerate the demise we’ve always wanted…To implement our plan..
        10)  The NEW WORLD ORDER.

        Ok, so if you’ve read this far, you’ve generously extended me some poetic license.  But think about it.  All of the suggestions mentioned above, as well as the 100’s mentioned on this blog & others, to curb our deficit situation are NOT rocket science.  And although we have a strong disdain for our politicians, let’s be honest, most all of them are highly educated, movers & shakers who at one time were leaders of commerce.  At a bare minimum, they understand the concept of balancing a budget. Bottom line, you either believe EVERY single law-maker for the past 60 years has been an unqualified, imbecile with no capacity to understand basic financial concepts, or there is something more sinister in play here.

        You can continue to spout your Patriotism and carry on as before in an attempt to enact change (vote, petition, boycott or whatever Constitutional means you believe will work) or you can recognize that it’s late in the 4th quarter, and its TPTB 72 – America 0.  Game over.

        Don’t forget to call your Mother.  She worries about you.

      21. Well, I knew that this day would come and that I would be vindicated. But I have to admit when I was being made fun of and ridiculed all those years I thought that this day would taste so sweet…..But it really leaves a bad taste in my mouth. Wish I had been wrong. But glad I didn’t fallow the sheepel and got prepared ( still preparing ).

      22. Comments…..@yourdaddy
        excellent post dude. You hit all the approiate nails right on the head.  As you allude to, we are all really screwed.  It is way past any kind of time to effectively change things.  Change will come through chaos, which is what I see coming, in one manner or another. 
             As a nation, we are in a freefall, and just haven’t hit bottom yet.  But we will, and then most of the rest of America will understand just how far we’ve fallen.  They will be looking for someone to blame.  Not a good time to be a politician or a banker.
              At some point in the game, all these posts on the various blogs concerning the collapse of the economy, are going to start to coming into play, and many preppers are going to say, “I told you so”.  I don’t really look foward to that time, and this is one time in my life  that i’d like to be wrong.  Good luck guys.

      23. “… we are in freefall…”

        Kind of like how Gonzalo Lira described it, falling forward, like when your pushing out a stuck car and suddenly it breaks free and moves forward, you fall forward,… into a shadow of something else, maybe a mirror image of the U.S.S.R.?

        And now for something positive:
        The Christmas cookies are finally done, she is done.

      24. [Nod to mushroom] How did it come to this?  The Europeans can do it, why can’t we?  Americans must be inherently inferior to the Euroes if the Euroes can figure it out and we can’t.  Go to Sweden.  The birds chirp more gaily there and the sun shines merrier.  Americans are dumber, maybe.  On second thought, I’ll tell you what it is- GREED.  That’s it, we Americans are all too greedy.  The European countries can give cradle to grave benefits, 30 days of vacation a year and four-day work weeks without all this fuss.  I’d like a full vested pension starting at 50 years old too.  Where’s mine?!  Just raise taxes.  Problem solved.  

      25. I don’t have much to add. So many people say it better than I could. From the guy that says “Lets get this over with. Its like the urge to puke but nothing comes up yet…” to the guy that said something to the effect that the police state is running out of money and that many services are uneccessary or could be privatized to the guy that said to bookmark this site because its the best for collapse and recovery info.

        I scour the net each day looking for good news and bad, fact and truth. Mac does a superb job of bringing it here as he chooses quality over quantity. The following sites are what I browse for my daily news. Every once in a while I pick up a new one. I have, however, been here at the longest. Here are my sites. Check them out: – Straight up, minimal BS. – Maximal BS. You must filter for truth. – Good survivalist / patriot forum. Not much tin foil. – SUPER libertarian / political site. – Another “news we don’t want you to see” site.

        My true homes are with Mac (SHTFPlan) and Giordano (NeitherCorp). They often cross post and cross reference their blogs and articles. While the writers (Mac fantastic is a writer/gatherer while Giordano is bit more of a stoic researcher writer) are absolutely stuning and entertaining, it is you, the commentors that flat amaze me. I’ve learned that good writers pull in good commentors. When you put it all together, articles and comments, it is a tremendous resource.

        Its to the point where I depend on these sites to form my opions of what is going on.

        My wish is that the world will become more like the commentor population here at STHFPlan (and at NeitherCorp). 

        I think what I am seeing is, essentially, the battle lines forming. The productive, no-nonsense people (us) against big government, the welfare state, the sheoplez  and the police state.

        Everyone on here does a great job and I just want to giver Mac and all his helpers a virtual pat on the back. Keep the faith. Don’t take any crap.

        …and finally, I leave you with the words of anonymous6.8 who says, better than I could articulate, what the real problem is and has been for so many years:

        “Also, there’s no necessary reason why most government-provided services couldn’t be provided privately, if they are necessary to do at all.” -anonymous6.8

        I’m thinking police and other things. Frankly, the reason they have had to have their own AGENCIES is because the people would refuse because the people know that 99% of what is done by these agencies is unconstitional!

        Don’t take any crap! YOUR opinion is just as valid as the next guy’s. Research. Think. Comment.


      26. Comments…..If NetRangers wish came true that the posters here should run the country, I would warn the Blacks, the Jews, the Latinos, the Gays,and the Catholics to run for the hills as the majority of posters here are closet white supremacists and neo-nazis. Your Bible is Mein Kamph but you racists will never get to run things here. Americans will see to that.

      27. Great. well thought out posts here without a lot of irrelevant BS. The seriousness of this topic goes a long way to the  supression of the BS.

        Most often, at Christmas Time and around the Holidays, I become somewhat moody, ‘blue’ and kind of morose. This year I am hopping around like crazy, just a bundle of energy, taking care of as many last minute preps as possible.

        There are still wraped presents sitting there under our little Christmas Tree this year. Easy to tell that they are mostly clothes this year; new jeans, warm shirts and sweaters, socks, boots and undershorts; mostly all practical gifts this year. There are a few small but quite heavy boxes there with my name on them that would seem to be more ammunition for daddy. Oh goodie, goodie, gumdrops! Aren’t I a ‘lucky-old redneck’ to have such thoughtful children?

        I put a brand new 2010 Silver American Eagle in an airtight container along with a brand new Swiss Army Knife and sheath into everyone’s stocking this year. I picked up the Honey Baked Ham at the store yesterday so that I won’t have to fight the lines at the store there today or tomorrow; they will be hell.

        So my extended family and I will gather together here this year and celebrate the birth of our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ, just as we always do. It is our intention to celebrate this Christmas just as if it will be the very last traditional Christmas that we will have the opportunity to celebrate for some time to come. IT MAY WELL BE!!!

        My advice to all is to get yourselves ‘hunkered-down’ for the holidays, get your families gathered close around you and love each other like there will be no tomorrow.
        The new year of 2011 promises to be very eventfull and interesting. I am not at all sure that the surprises that this new year holds for us will be pleasant or what we want to see headed our way.
        God Bless and good luck to all. Please accept the best wishes of my family and I that you and your families may enjoy a wonderful Christmas and a safe, prosperous and happy New Year.

      28. Greg has it nailed.

        The States will do some cuts, but in the end, the Feds will come to the “rescue” and sweep away what little State sovereignty is left. 

        The “Obama Money” that has kept the States afloat for the last 2 years will be extended indefinitely, just like unemployment……right up until the dollar is completely destroyed.

      29. same here MadMarkie..Most of my gifts to family and friends were geared toward prep, even if they dont see it that way.

        warm clothes, survival type tools.,crank radios.. battery less flash lights.etc.
        I even bought a pellet gun for my kid, she’s going to need to learn how to protect herself someday, when im not there to do it for her.
        So she is going to get taught by me, respect for firearms, use of the tool, and the responsibilities of the tool. and accuracy.
        as age appropreate we will move up the line to a more useful tool for self protection.
        we need to prepaire our family and kids too, for what might be there for them, when we arent, even if it is subliminal.
        No way could I raise a kid , dumbed down to play along, and not be self reliant..that would just add another lost soul to the masses..not on my watch, not my offspring 
        you have to give them the education the love, and the tools to succeed, and defend themselfs not only intelligence, but self defense.

        we are teaching how to grow food, pureify water, store supplies, camping skills, making things, what is important and what is not..many different lessons in life for future survival if ever necessary after we are gone, in the event she needs them in this possible bleek future.
        value of work, value of skills..value of the ability to think for yourself.

      30. Carrot I think you are wishing for racists to fufill your self-fulfilling prophecy.  You see racists behind every tree.  Look out!  Something is behind that tree!  Who could it be?

        Goodwin’s Law says that the longer an arguement continuesthe odds become even that someone will invoke Hitler.
        A similar law, BlackSwan’s law, says that every arguement is an opportunity for race pimps to play the race card.

      31. Excellent posts – wow!  @VRF: Teaching what is important and what is not is perhaps the most useful skill to pass along.  Critical thinking supports and goes hand in hand with a good BS filter.

        A long time ago one of my teachers pointed out that, when you go down the street, you don’t examine every brick on every house.  You keep your eye on the environment which affects your travels.

      32. Of course it is over. The world forgot the only logical reason for borrowing: to increase production or in  simplish, profits.
        The only state that has a positive bank balance is North Dakota. My own state of Alaska is carrying a debt roughly equal to $20K per man, woman and child. The Ak state retirement system is under-funded. Oil is running out and the budget continue to grow.
        Let’s get this in historical context. The US had plenty of depressions prior to 1913. They were short-lived and  by in large only affected banks and gov’t. Most of the public didn’t notice the ebb and flow of national economics. The banks, financiers and government damn sure noticed every bubble bursting. Why do you suppose the Federal Reserve Act was passed?
        Prior to the depression of ’29, social programs were run by charities. No national income tax and therefore no income tax-deductions. Since 1917, we have encouraged taxpayers to donate to deductable charities by granting deductions of up to 50% of the taxpayer’s income. The rest of the workforce gets to make up for this tax loss by paying a higher percentage of taxes. Ironically, most of the monies donated DON”T go to the intended purpose.
        What went wrong? Gov’t involvement in social programs and productivity. We can thank the XVIth Amendment for this. The power to tax productivity is the power to control productivity. The worst parts of this is; no limits on tax rates and redistribution to non-productive segments of the nation. Vote buying has always existed.
        Obviously income taxation is the primary mechanism that got us into this mess. A secondary problem is sec 4 of the XIVth Amendment enacted as a way to deal with the economic aftermath of the Civil War.
        This set the stage for “you can’t question national debt and we can tax you to death to pay for it.”
        Now back to the states. To the best of my knowledge, every state has a balanced budget clause in their Constitution. However, they can sell bonds. We can’t have a deficit at the end of the fiscal year, but we can borrow against next year’s or the next 20 year’s income stream. Clairvoyance seems to be in short supply. Everyone forgets that economics is historical analysis. Politicians want economic forecasters aka economic clairvoyants.
        So as goes the private debt, so goes the public debt. Unrestrained public debt; shut up and pay. Unrestrained private debt: shut up and pay. We have the choice to stop increasing our private debt. Stopping public debt requires a Constitutional Amendment.
        If Congress fails to fix this mess, The natural and predictable end result will fix it, them and us.
        We tend to forget that the only legitimate function of government is protection of private property rights.
        BTW The politicians weren’t captains of industry and they aren’t any more intelligent than their electorate. The lion’s share of them are/were curious non-producing nauggies. No conspiracies needed. See Occam’s Razor.
        Nauggy: n, 1. one who rides the naugehyde. 2. Non-participatory decision maker isolated from any reparations for damages caused by thier decision.


      34. Okay, I think I am getting it. No one wants to buy much of our Treasuries, and so we are buying them? Right? That’s stupid. It makes everything worse. Is this how “they” keep us from realizing no-one wants to buy our debt so much, anymore? Why do we need to buy it? I know, to support and prop up so….what? Who benefits from the propping? Them in government? I think that is the answer. If it falls apart on their watch, we all think they did it, right? So, how long can we go on doing this? And what happens if we do? Is this a way to guide the “boat” out of the water? Hum…maybe they think of the economy as a boat, and it’s sinking, so they have to increase the water level by printing more money. That is their thinking. They think they can float their boats this way. Well, what they don’t know, is that there is a whole in the pool that needs to be patched up.

        I am tired of all the “market’s going to crash”! stuff. I wish it would just happen and we could get it over with and take back this country. Hum…could this prolonging of events be a way to stave off that? The longer they prop it up, the longer they get to hopd on, right?

        Supposedly, this new year is going to be tougher. Sure it will. Folks will exhaust their unemployment and not be able to collect anymore. They won’t be counted in the unemployment figures, right? For the people that are falling off this year, we did the math, and it brings our unemployment figures up to officially 16%, so it’ll be over 25 by the end of the year.

        Well, what if there are municipalities that default on their bonds? Will a Republican Congress tell them, “so sad, too bad” and not bail them out? I think so. More layoffs. And no recovery for those lost jobs. Okay, so what do they do? A new norm for America. Not the dream us 50’s kids had.

        Bernanke himself said that unemployment will be bad for the next 4 to 5 years. Well, if he says that, I think since he doctors up what he says and only has good things to say, we could be in the crapper for a good ten years or more. That is what I see. If you disagree with that, just let me know where the jobs are and we will move there. Oh! We are leaving Phoenix and moving to Virginia. Lots of government work. Low unemployment. May as well go back to Uncle Sam and work. It’s really welfare, not a real job.  But that is another story.

        I think that there is only a slow descent into a coming hell. It won’t be fast. If they let it happen slow, they remain in control and people at the top don’t like giving up contrul And, they will just make it worse by trying to make it better.

        I know that folks talk about revolution, going to D.C and doing harm to people there; so that they understand they have screwed up the lives of the people. I hear that folks want to cause pain to the bankers, find out where they live and harm them. I understand that now. The gov’t and the bankers have ruined life for us.

        Caryn…I just preached to a suited, 20 something year old Jehovah Witness!!!
        Do I get the looney prize??
        I couldn’t help it–it just popped out!!


        Goldenfoxx…I believe if the insurance companies can recognize volunteer fire departments, then the court systems should recognize volunteer police officers!!

        December 23rd, 2010 at 1:24 am

        Interesting…I just read that in Iraq/Afghanistan–take your pick–only 20 % of the countries were actually controlled/helped by our military…that the other 80% was run by Al Qaeda and most residents just went along to get along…now, what has been accomplished??
        Cheney and company made billions…we blow them up, he profits…we build them back, he profits….it’s a win-win for his team…ours, not so much!!

      38. Comments….. If I were working for any government entity right now, I would probably be sweating bullets!  Read what happened to this town in Alabama:

        Alabama Town’s Failed Pension Is a Warning

        Published: Thursday, 23 Dec 2010 | 4:39 AM ET

        By: Michael Cooper and Mary Williams Walsh
        The New York Times

        This struggling small city on the outskirts of Mobile was warned for years that if it did nothing, its pension fund would run out of money by 2009. Right on schedule, its fund ran dry.

        Darren Robb | Stone | Getty Images

        Then Prichard did something that pension experts say they have never seen before: it stopped sending monthly pension checks to its 150 retired workers, breaking a state law requiring it to pay its promised retirement benefits in full.
        Since then, Nettie Banks, 68, a retired Prichard police and fire dispatcher, has filed for bankruptcy. Alfred Arnold, a 66-year-old retired fire captain, has gone back to work as a shopping mall security guard to try to keep his house. Eddie Ragland, 59, a retired police captain, accepted help from colleagues, bake sales and collection jars after he was shot by a robber, leaving him badly wounded and unable to get to his new job as a police officer at the regional airport.
        Far worse was the retired fire marshal who died in June. Like many of the others, he was too young to collect Social Security. “When they found him, he had no electricity and no running water in his house,” said David Anders, 58, a retired district fire chief. “He was a proud enough man that he wouldn’t accept help.”
        Read more:
        And it will happen here for sure!  I live in California and our incoming governor wants to dis-ban the California stimulus office! LOL!  Duh, there’s no money!


        Okay your daddy—we’ll give you those…but it has been written that Monsanto may be very surprised to learn that labs are showing  the 3rd/4th or even 5th generation of those hybrid seeds are showing promise of reverting back to non-hybrid.

        God isn’t leaving us…he’s leading??  Just saying.


        your left out chemtrail/aerosol husband is a logger of 40 years; he and a forester have noticed certain species of trees are dying…the bark is just falling off….Hawaii is reporting the same thing of their trees.

      41. Comments…..  Hey Mac,  great article and video.  Thanks for your vigilance and hard work.

      42. Go to hell Carrot.

      43. Carrot,

        Racists? Excuse me but did you just get loose from the loony bin? Most often the people that scream “RACIST!” are the ones that are. They are fighting their own urges and overcompensate by being overly sensitive to the issue. I have no such urges. In fact, I am offended by your allegations that any of us are racists. Not only that, Jews and Catholics are not RACE, you moron, thats religion.

        I would sincerely like some examples of racist behavior on this blog.

        You fail.


      44. Can anyone tell me, please, how long our gov’t can print money for, before hyper-inflation hits us? I have been talking to my son about what I am learning her and I am “getting it”.  I see that this extra money being printed is lowering the value of our dollar.  I see the price of stuff going up at the store, and big time, too! Instead of just reading the blogs about “doom and gloom is coming!”, I am thinking it all through. I believe that people leave patterns and that there are trends and hints to what is going to happen. That is why people can look back and see things, but they seldom think about looking forward and adding 2 + 2.  Okay, no one knows when everything runs out and the day it crashes. We know we are out of money and the government is screwing us. How long can they print money for? We have two more QE’s and I bet that it just goes into bank accounts somewhere. Main street won’t see it.

        Okay, in the spring, Meredith Whitney says we will start to see muni’s fall, cause stimulus money ends. She was not right about that, cause of QE2 and QE3.  Won’t any of the next round of QE’s go to municialities, or just to the failing banks? Did she make that comment knowing about the upcoming QE’s, that in the spring muni’s will start their failure and the impact is worse than the housing collapse?

        Please, if anyone can answer these questions, it is all starting to make sense tonight. I need info!

      45. Comments… jj; preaching to a jehovahs witness? bless you!!! and no ya don’t get to the looney bin for that…how long did he stand there listening or did he run away really fast? the last time we had one of those knocking at our door they were trying to give away boxes of tide detergent just to get a foot in the door. lol, i had to be honest and tell the guy and gals that i made my own homemade detergents and if they were gonna stand there yacking to grab a hoe and help me with weeding. they left.

      46. Okay, the QE @ & 3 is for buying back Treasuries, and won’t go to any banks or main street. Now I got that. So Meredith Whitney is right. Handwriting on the wall. Plain for anyone to see.  I know that some of  you are having other things on your minds tonight, but this is very important to me. I want to really understand and not just “accept” what I hear. Why the hell is our gov’t so stupid? They are just greedy. They don’t care about the populace, I know that. Not really. I know there are good people who work for our gov’t, I am not talking about them. There is no way that Europe can get out of this. It could take ten years for a total collapse, or just a couple. My son says that America is gone in a few years. I am so glad that he didn’t get married and have children to worry about, or for me to worry about. I do see hwere more ammunition is on my after-Christmas list.

      47. Lisa asks, “Can anyone tell me, please, how long our gov’t can print money for, before hyper-inflation hits us?”


        Hyper-inflation is a process decided by the government or The Fed.

        They can print money as long as they can purchase ink and paper.

        Main Street will likely eventually see this flood of new money, look up Gary North for more details, although; he does not think we will see hyper-inflation, just massive inflation.
        Others disagree.

        “Why the hell is our gov’t so stupid?”

        They have other goals?
        They believe in Keynesian. It is flawed.
        They are pursuing Keynesian Stimulus, gonzalolira explains this, as do many others.

        You’re on the right path, keep going.

      48. I’m getting tired, I made an error:

        They can keep, “printing” money as long as they can still push a button on a computer creating digits out of thin air.

        There is no limit.

      49. Lisa: Hyper-inflation is not a likely scenario, but serious inflation is; and it is intended. Obummer wants to increase exports 20% a year and that can only be accomplished by devaluing our currency against other currencies. Inflation by a thousand cuts.
        With respect to QE2, 3, or 4 understand that all or most of the money will never see circulation within our economy. QE is intended to support the balance sheets of the member banks of the Federal Reserve System against further losses.
        When the FED “buys” US Treasuries, it is not “buying them back”. It is buying them just like any other investor with one exception. It is not paying for them in gold, or silver, dollars, or even in other currencies. Most likely these bonds “purchased” by the FED are being bought with promissory notes. Fiat promissory notes, chasing fiat bonds, to receive fiat money interest every quarter. This represents a transfer of American wealth from the US Treasury to the FED.
        Virtually ALL of the bonds that are “purchased” by the FED in this way, is intended to support the balance sheets of the member banks of the FED which are increasing their reserves through profits in the yield spread from the interest being paid by the Treasury, and other profits; to protect against Mortgage Mess 2: the next wave of foreclosures and housing price devaluation coming to a home near you soon.
        Basically, this amounts to another or a CONTINUING bailout of the bankster gangsters.
        Some new money, the interest that the Treasury is paying on its T-Bonds every quarter, may enter the economy, as it will be circulated in the global economy, and the dollar is the world reserve currency. But this is primarily the interest paid to bona fide investors of the deficit. The interest or the profit that the FED receives from the T-bonds will not be loaned by the major banks, to the masses.  It will go to cover loan losses expected in MM2 and MM3.
        The aggregate amount of bonds being sold is a problem (which stems from the deficit spending of Congress, and the US Budget deficit). QE 2, or 3, or 4, is not the problem. The deficit spending is the problem because that increases the amount of interest that the US must pay every quarter, because it represents more American debt that must be sold to support government spending (like the wars of unfettered capitalism); while at the same time, its balance of payments deficit (exchange with other nations) increases every month.
        In and of itself QE is not a problem. Bernanke’s plan (hope) is that at a future date, he will be able to go to the US treasury and exchange those (fiat) T bonds for his fiat promissory notes, and thus reduce both the deficit and the money supply. That will represent a transfer of the wealth of the Federal Reserve back to the American people. He will not return the interest payments however and that money COULD be used in the fractional banking system for loans. That is not likely, and there is no demand for loans anyway.
        To maintain their franchise of the American banking system and its economy, the FED will have to give something back; but this will just represent an aberration in the process over history, by which, the gangster banksters have been enriching themselves on the backs of the American taxpayer.
        Expect real inflation on food and gas, as it is the intention of the NOW to make America more like China and China more like America. In China the poor spend more than 50% of their disposable income for food.
        Does this help?

      50. Clark- To clarify, hyper-inflation is not a process controlled by the government, as they do not control the creation of money.  This task is handled by the Fed.

        Lisa- You seem to be all over the place with a rapid-fire sequence of questions.  Hard to determine your knowledge base on this topic, so 1000 pardons if my layman’s explanation undershoots the mark.
        In a nutshell, here is what is happening.
        Every week, our Federal Government requires new funds to finance its enormous (and un-Constitutional) appetite.  Only two places these funds can come from, tax revenue from us, or by borrowing it from “investors.”  The vehicles they use to borrow this money are T-Bills & T-Bonds.  Each week, the government brings a suitcase full of Bonds to auction.  The Bonds have varying maturity dates 10-30 years from now.  The Bond is a promise to return the investor his full principal amount “invested” along with a set interest rate (aka “bond yield”).  For the past few years, our government has had little problem handing out $100’s of billions of these bonds, because the USD is the world’s reserve currency & the American economy has been the world’s biggest.  The investing public, foreign nations, Mutual funds, bond traders have all been more then willing to hand the US government $100’s of billions today in exchange for the promise of that future re-payment + interest.
        What has changed since 2008, is the current & future (perception) of the value of the dollar.  If the value of the dollar begins to erode (because our FED elects to print $1.4Trillion new digits out of thin air), bond holders run for the hills as they are no longer as enthused to be re-paid that set principal amount at a future date because those future dollars will be worth less…The only mechanism to increase demand for bonds (i.e. re-invorgorate those investors to step up and “invest” in this US soverign debt) is for the interest rate (bond yield) to increase.  In other words, when the USD is in high demand & our fiscal policies are sound, bond yields tend to be low.  However, when the value of the dollar is falling and fiscal policies are loose, bond yields will rise.
        The problem with rising bond yields is that interest rate applies to all of the US’s debt which is currently just under $14 Trillion (and rising fast!).  With higher rates of interest, the debt service becomes even that more burdensome for the US Govt.
        So, how can the US Govt raise $100’s Billions of dollars in the bond markets when “real” demand for our currency or debt instruments is waning?  (You probably know the answer to this…)
        You guessed it, our Federal Reserve Bank simply creates the $100 Billion from thin air, accepts the Bonds at the going rate (or helps to drive them down by absorbing most of the supply) and hands it over to our Federal Govt.  The Federal Govt is free to do with it what they please, and the Fed simply holds onto an IOU (30 yr T-Bond) that will never get paid back.
        The definition of inflation is the creation of money.  Period.  It is not “rising prices.”  Rising prices are the natural symptoms of Inflationary money creation.  So, to answer your question, “How long can this go on before Hyper-inflation sets in?”  The short answer, “Not much longer.”
        The Fed cannot continue to just subsidize our Govt obligations with funny money.  There are many soverign nations, IRA/401k holders, mutual funds etc that also hold $trillions of these bonds, and the moment they believe the US can no longer honor their repayment promise, they will begin to dump their holdings.  Like any asset, when it is dumped in copious amounts into a market (large supply) it quickly outstrips the available buyers willing to scoop it up (small demand) at the current prices or yields.  To entice buyers to invest in these debt instruments, the yields (i.e. interest rates) will have to jump tremendously from their current, historic lows to unsustainable levels.  With little to no demand interest in the US T-Bonds, the govt will fail to raise the needed funds.  Simulaneously, that nagging detail of the skyrocketing bond yield will “trickle down” into everything (mortgages especially) and force the cost of borrowing through the roof.  Now, every business that was borrowing at below prime (5%) won’t be able to secure financing for anything less then (fill in a crazy number here) and will have to pass those costs onto you, the consumer.  Consumers will be furious when they witness the cost of basic staples double in a month’s time…and since most of the public believes the definition of inflation is “my gallon of milk now costs $8,” that is when you’ll here folks clamoring about inflation and talking heads on the news discussing meaningless debates of whether or not we have “massive” inflation or “hyper” inflation…In either case, we’re cooked.
        So, it comes down to this simple question.
        Do you believe the printed promise on our FRN’s that, “this tender is backed by the full faith & credit of the United States Government?”  If not, you should begin converting all available resources into things of true value (Food, metals, land etc…)
        One of the popular tongue in cheek phrases around here goes something like:
        Bible, beans, bullets, band-aids, breast milk (…ok, I was kidding about that one.  There are no band-aids in that list).
        Hope this Finance 101 entry addressed your many questions.  If not, come back tomorrow and ask again.  There are a plethora of folks smarter than I that reside on this board that will be able to help you.
        Sleep tight.

      51. Comments….. Best way to get rid of Bible thumpers knocking at your door, is to hang a sign by your door bell that says “No Bible Thumpers Allowed.”  Nice thing about living out in the country, those pesky young men on bikes can’t make it up the hill.  The JW’s drive here, but not any more. BTW, the JWs kept pestering my mother, and she had to write a letter to the church telling them to stay off her property.  Pathetic! 🙂

      52. Comments….. Quote of the day:

        “The world will soon wake up to the reality that everyone is broke and can collect nothing from the bankrupt, who are owed unlimited amounts by the insolvent, who are attempting to make late payments on a bank holiday in the wrong country, with an unacceptable currency, against defaulted collateral, of which nobody is sure who holds title.”

      53. Durango Kid – Yes, it does explain it.  You are very, very intelligent!!! My son and I thank you for your input. You are correct; I can see that. One thing we are buying is a four year supply of food for us and it should be a two year supply since there are just two of us. My son and I are in college and when student loans get released to our account, we aare getting that and more guns and AMMO!!!  He loves fixing trucks, so I am lucky there. But, I still want to get a horse. We are moving to a small town of about 10,000 where we have family and friends at the end of the summer. I figure that the end of this year, living in Phoenix is really going to be bad with the border violence. I have become a separatist after living around so many ethnicities. There is just so much trouble when they don’t want to blend in and join the real America.

      54. Thanks Dad, it helped me too.

      55. GF..That quote of the day about seems to sum it up…doesnt it?
        the jig is up..tshhtf..already

      56. Comments….. @ yourdaddy
          That was a good lesson on the economy.  I think you explained pretty good  why the gallon of milk keeps costing more.
            The thing that all of us are going to have to get used to, is the fact that we are totally screwed.  The preps that we do will help us soften the crash that is coming, but to me, the evidence is overwhealming that at some point, we will start using the supplies and the metals we have been buying  for a long time.   Right now, i just keep piling stuff up, but I see no reason to believe I’m wrong.  I would like to see a reason that shows me I’m wrong, but each day just points to the inevitable.  We are in for a long ride paddling up crap creek.  at least we have a paddle.  it’s difficult to fathom the countless number of  unbelievers who will float by, drowning in their disbelief of the failure of their government to protect them.  When in reality, their government had their demise planned all along.
              This idea of wishing things would go ahead and happen is getting more and more prevalent every day.  But, I have a feeling that when things finally do collapse, I will wish for the “old’ days. 
             Lastly, I am a firm believer in the idea that our lives are about to change, and that nothing that even remotely could be considered normal is ever going to be that way again.  The seeds of change are being planted daily in the garden of our lives will soon bear fruit of discontent. This discontent will be hard to deal with even though we have prepped for it.  But for the masses of sheep waiting in line for a handout, this discontent will be too much to bare.  We will see parts of society come unglued.  My hope is that I can sit on the sideline and watch the show progress, as this will be a once in a lifetime presentation that we as preppers will have a front row seat.
              Good luck all. The question remains, just how much longer do we have?????

      57. Concerning hyper inflation or collapse; no one can really predict exactly what and when.  Part of the difficulty is that people will react to events and take steps that might mitigate them or even make them worse.  In theory our government is taking steps to mitigate our recession and the collapse of the housing bubble.  But in fact since they are following a Keynesian economic theory it is likely that they will only make the problem worse.  Essentially what they are doing is borrowing money to continue spending as though we were still in a boom.  This has dramatically increased the national debt and promises more dramatic increases in the near future.  There is some point for individuals, organizations and governments where the amount borrowed exceeds their ability to ever pay it back.  Individuals and organizations/corporations usually just declare bankruptcy and the lenders get pennies on the dollar if they are lucky.  Governments are different in that they have the ability to print money.  We are doing that now as part of our Keynesian economic policies.  We are simply digging the hole deeper.  At some point it will collapse.  When?  Hard to say.  It could happen in a few months or six months or a year.  It’s hard to say.  Certainly once interest rates begin to rise in response to real inflation (as opposed to the governments inflation index) our debt will become a very serious problem.  But some other event could trigger a collapse before interest rates do.  Europe and the rest of the world cold refuse to accept the dollar.  Europe could collapse in a classic domino way.  A major war could erupt in Israel.  There is a long list of things which could precipitate an economic collapse once a country has borrowed and printed itself into a “pre-collapse” state.   This could happen without much notince and it is the likely way our economy will collapse.  Once it begins it will proceed quickly.  You may have days, weeks at most before suddenly gas stations don’t have gas, your bank won’t let you access your own money and grocery stores don’t have any food.   In addition to the more obvious events look for things like all of Obama’s economic advisors quitting “to spend more time with their family”.  Or a hastily called press conference with Obama in the Oval Office starting his speech with “My fellow Americans…”.   The most obvious clue will be a national bank holiday probably beginning over a weekend.  A bank holiday is where you can’t get in the bank you can’t use your TAM card and maybe can’t even use a credit card and it could go on for days, weeks or longer.  And when the banks finally open you can’t withdraw more then $300 a month (or some limited amount).  At this point it is too late.  If you had a small IRA you were thinking about closing out and buying gold it is too late.   After it is a done deal and we all realize our economy has collapsed and we are watching riots on TV (if we still have electricity and TV service) we will be able to look back and identify the clues.  We will be able to kick ourselves for not acting when our gut was telling us things were getting bad.   Our vision will be clear, our attention will be held by real events (as opposed to facebook, this blog and dancing with the stars) and we will be worried.   Good luck, it’s later then you think…

      58. I am really pleased with how you guys are knowledgeable. Instead of starting a new business this January, (isn’t that a laugh?), we are pooling our student loan money that is left over and we are buying all the things we need to get through what my son says is going to happen. Now, this kid is smart, notices patterns in the stock market and calls them correctly. The bank opened up early and he and his stock broker went in and he told them what was going to happen and why. He has left that “industry” and gone into survival stuff. Go figure. Should they not know what is going on? He left in 2000, so he is not a part of what took us down, you all can put yer rifles down, now! LOL! But, why what he sees happening, the small hobby that I wanted to turn into a bakery, I am going to hold back on and get the supplies to take us 4 years down the road. No one is giving loans, but government, and I have to pay that back at a low rate. As long as I stay in school, no payment. Yes, I am watching what I get into debt for. I have another income and don’t need a lot. But, all that is left over is going into generators, freeze dried food, particular tools and medicals, for several years. Seeds are important, too. And, when I get back to VA, I want to have chickens again, and a goat! I can kill chickens, but I can’t bring myself to kill a cow. Chicken I can raise and kill. Goat mils is okay. And, the guns that I will wear, while on my property, is something that I am great at firing. I am going to be where there are people who know about hiding, and my white southern Appalachian relatives, a bit more backwards than me, how lucky I am that they are skilled in survival since they are so uneduma-cated, lol!, are definitely folks to be around. I am taking a ton of seeds, the heirloom kind.

        For my son’s mathematical abilities, he is awesome with fixing machines, and he is going back to a truck that he knows inside out and has been a staple in our economy. Nothing new, no “flaunting” of anything new. That is stupid.

        The other reason that I want to go back there is to help. When Y2K hit, I was traveling the left coast between Idaho and San Diego. I met  many people who told me what they were doing to prepare for it. I loved them for their hearts to help others. I want to help the little kids who need a garden to grow stuff in. I hope I can. I don’t want to see any of them go hungry.

        Did the government demand that we go to debit cards for social security payments so that they can really hold on to the mony in the spring when things go sour?

      59. One more thing – being able to garden is great. Canning supplies and real professional bread making, and milling equipment, noodle making stuff…that is all going to be important. But, being able to do it without all the electric stuff, now that is the challenge!!!

      60. ANON: Thanks for the compliment but when my truck needs repair, I take it to a mechanic. You are what you eat. Which brings me to the horse.

        Reconsider that horse as it eats 50lbs of feed per day. That’s a lot of prep! At least consider a Mustang from BLM; or a burro. These are hardy beasts that can survive independently if necessary.

        Americans spent $20 billion on vet bills last year. The lion’s share I suspect (but cannot say for sure, per species) was probably for horses.

        Your daddy:  Great dissertation on the economy, but you said:

        “The problem with rising bond yields is that interest rate applies to all of the US’s debt which is currently just under $14 Trillion (and rising fast!).  With higher rates of interest, the debt service becomes even that more burdensome for the US Govt.”

        I don’t think you meant to imply that rising interest rates on T Bonds for new issues are retroactive on pre-existing government debt; which is how I read that statement. I am not a bond expert but I believe when older bonds with a lower rate of interest are resold among investors, their price must be discounted to achieve the yield spread of new higher yielding bonds, to be competitive for a buyer.

        Effectively, that process and inflation, lowers the overall debt burden when bonds are redeemed by the government.

        That the budget deficit continues to swell uncontrollaby only serves to illustrate the financial burden of the wars of unfettered capitalism upon the American taxpayer, and the transfer of American wealth to other nations via our balance of payment deficits.

        No collapse. Inflation by a thousand cuts. China’s purchase of US Treasuries are at a 10 month high. Its global three card monte.

      61. ANON:  You are in Phoenix? You can reach me at [email protected] Sounds like you are headed for Show Low next summer.

      62. I don’t know why the “rush or urgency” to pay everything off. Why? Get your house in 100% tip top working order and suppy yourself to the hilt. THEN and only then try to pay off your existing bills. When it all caves in will that two grand you owe to visa matter? When they have laid off 3/4 of their workforce and you cannot afford a phone for the acency they turn the debt over to to call you, will it matter? The banks will be handing the debt out to collectors for pennioes on the dollar. Like I care if my credit score drops in a time like that!

      63. GoneWithTheWind = Thank you for your lengthy input. I wanted to thank you for your time and answering my questions. You, too, are very knowledgeable and sharing what you know for those of us who are not as astute as you is very appreciated and greatly valued. I hope to read more from you!!!

      64. One thing I promise you all, as I travel by truck back to VA this summer/fall, I will post all the video of the towns that we go through. This is my way of showing America what MSM won’t put on the air very often. They did at the beginning, but not now.

      65. Hey, I got a question: What is this three-year cycle of th dollar? Can anyone explain that to me? Someone said that it is going to start a new three year cycle and it’s going to go down again. I googled and could not find anything to explain it. Thanks!

      66. Here are some choice quotes from Gary North [mine in brackets] that seem to show how money creation – and therefore hyper-inflation – Is a process controlled by the government:

        “No one raises the issue of why the Web addresses of the 12 regional Federal Reserve Banks end in .org, but the Board of Governors ends in .gov.

        Congress does not control the FED: the FED controls Congress. This has been true since 1914, and it is not likely to change.

        the FED has almost always capitulated to Congress…

        First, a FED chairman pumps in new money. A boom ensures. Then bubbles appear. Then the FED chairman is replaced [Appointed by the President and removed by him as well if he does not perform as expected, a.k.a. control] A new austerity is imposed. The bubbles pop. The country goes into recession. The banks suffer huge losses. The FED then calls for Congress to bail out the banks.

        Central banks are all officially state banks. There may be some degree of private ownership, but officially the final jurisdiction is in the hands of the national governments. This may be a contrived illusion for the sake of the voters, but these institutions do derive their power from special legislation from the national governments, or, in the case of the European Central Bank, the European Union. No central bank can survive apart from a grant of monopoly privilege by the supreme civil government.

        Plosser implied that only the FED stands between us and a Congress ready to adopt hyperinflation. Let us hope that he is correct.

        What he did not mention is the fact that, given the FED’s previous monetary inflation, the only way for the FED to stand in the GAP between Congress and hyperinflation is to adopt monetary stability. That will produce a depression, just as it almost did in October 2008. The FED blinked.

        Allan Meltzer wrote a very good essay for the Wall Street Journal on January 27. It dealt with the build-up in the Federal Reserve System’s monetary base as a result of its purchases of government debt, especially Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac debt, in the fall of 2008. Its title and subhead tell the story:

        The Fed’s Anti-Inflation Exit Strategy Will Fail
        Sooner or later the pressure to lend out excess bank reserves    will be unstoppable.

        Bernanke has repeatedly said that the FED will unwind, but I am unaware of any explanation of how, exactly, the FED will accomplish this feat. It is the absence of such an explanation that leads me to believe that there is no such plan, and that the FED is unlikely to deflate the monetary base for long.

        When bankers cease being afraid to lend, they will pull reserves out of the FED and will immediately lend.

        The government and the FED have worked together to create this crisis. They will work together to cover up the effects of prior policies. This will lead to even greater crises.”

      67. My folks are on their third RV…from inherrited wealth.  My wife and I make about $140k.  We live in a double..small.  We planned to live this way as we knew this was not sustainable for the nation.  All our kids friends parents are losing their McManssions.  The funny thing is…after the boomers cannot RV anymore as they are old and sick…they can sell their RVs to have someone wipe their ass.  We’re too busy working for fiat money that continues to lose value.  The boomers bid up the price on our home, now we hope for hyperinflation to pay it off.  The Bernie Maddoff thing was really something.  That told me to get out of the market and buy metals.  I doubled our wealth in 18 months.  This has been a planned collpase.  I do hope it all collpases.  Then the NRA will get the militia going, team up with the military and hunt down all the international bankers.  If we end up back in the stone ages…I plan on eating banker stew!  ha.

      68. Generation X,
        Instead of blaming the Boomers for all the problems, maybe you should consider  that several demographic groups participated in the current mess.  Your comment reminds me of the snide comments about ‘obese  Americans’.  If everyone who spent energy obssessing about  other people’s body fat, instead took that energy and used it to contemplate just how bad things are going to get, as well as the fact the USA is turning into a police state run by marxists, we’d all be much better off.  Quit blaming Boomers and/or fat people.  They are not the cause but the preyed upon citizens.  The system targeted these people for destruction.

      69. Gen X does nto show that he has any manners. I doubt he means to be so rude. Probably just mad at how things are.  Mostlly the young Gen X-ers, were the sub-primers, the ones who could not afford a house and the banks, full of young, unscrupulous people, (more Gen-S’s), who wanted to make a sales quota and buy another Beemer, caused this. It’s the bright, young minds that created this. They don’t care. All the old folks are gonna die, so why not take advantage of the great economy and take all they can, while they can? Yup, them young pups did this. Guess the militias will be hunting you, son!

      70. Hi Lisa,
        LOL on the militias hunting Gen X’ers.  ObamaCare will be stalking Boomers and the militias the Xers.  I see depopulation coming.  I wonder how many Boomerswill have theirs lives shortened courtesy of ObamaCare?  The ‘great’ minds that created it are all about rationing and population reduction.  Eugenics here we come.

      71. Hi de Oro!  You have a quick wit and a keen mind. The sad truth about Obummer Care is that you are right, again!!!

      72. Thanks for the compliment, Lisa.  I’ve noticed the same about you.  Its rare that I get compliments on my mind.  I usually get insults, if you know what I mean.  ;o)   Most people want to remain ignorant about damn near everything.  Its more comfortable for them that way.   Ignorance is not only bliss, its a luxury that will be too expensive for the majority of Americans in the not-to-distant future.

      73. Well de Oro, I thank you for your compliment, too. You know something, intelligence is the most sexy thing in a guy…really. Stupid don’t work, specially now!

        I am looking for information on the dollar-cycle. Supposedly it is finishing a three year cycle this Spring, and when it restarts, it is to just go down, (duh), and I wanted to get some education on that dollar-cycle theory.

      74. I agree, smart in a guy is VERY attractive/sexy.  My boyfriend is real smart except for the Obama man crush he has.  That’s taken it down a notch for me.  I put it to his Leftist indoctrination in college.  LOL.

        If you want to follow what’s going on with the dollar, start spending time at .  There’s tons of information there.  Most of it will not be your main interest but some of the other stuff will be  very enlightening.

      75. Comments….. When things get really bad, I think most people, even preppers will have their hands full just getting by.  Preppers guarding what they have, and sheeple trying to steal it.   If that’s not enough, possibly the authorities trying to find hoarders.   When people do catch their breath, they will already know who to blame.
            When things go sour, I plan to work with my neighbors trying to protect the neighborhood, as I know they all have guns. After that–who knows??   The petty differences will be put aside, as just surviving will be the most important event of the day.

      76. Hey, de Oro!!! I didn’t now you were a lady!!!  How kewl!!! I don’t meet too many gals that know finance, and you just sounded like a guy on here! So glad that I met you. I thought you were a fella and when you said that you didn’t get compliments on your intelligence, mostly insults, I wanted you to know what is true about men, and that intelligence is sexy to us! Well, even as a woman, I am sure that your boyfriend loves it, and if he don’t, find another that will!! Life is too short and there are guys that love to talk intelligently with women!

      77. Annette: I know a little bit about money and I have never heard of a three year cycle related to the dollar. There is some evidence for a four year economic cycle associated with the Presidential election cycle; which may be what you are referring too.

        It is “customary” for the FED to induce a recession in the first year of a new President’s term so that the economy is moving along at a good clip by the next election, four years later.

        You can see it beginning now. In two years the economy will be cruising along, unemployment will be down to 7% and Obummer will claim his policies are working. The American voter has swallowed this crap over and over and over again.

      78. The web addresses of the Federal Reserve banks end in “org” because they are private organizations, and not government entities. The Board of Governors of the Federal Reserve is a government body charged with overseeing the FED, a private cabal of member banks; easy enough to understand, if you know anything at all about the financial structure of the USA.
        The member banks will not start lending again, except to very large corporations which they have already done and at low rates, until Helicopter Ben says they can lend. Fear has nothing to do with it. That is some time away as the Mortgage Mess and credit swap losses will be absorbing the excess monetary base. By the time those losses have been charged off, there will not be a lot of excess reserves to lend.
        Clark: Whoever is responsible for the quote below does not understand the banking system in the USA at all.
        “Bernanke has repeatedly said that the FED will unwind, but I am unaware of any explanation of how, exactly, the FED will accomplish this feat.”
        This can be achieved in a number of ways: raising reserve requirements for the member banks, raising interest rates; tightening credit standards for borrowers; and by retiring debt.

      79. Durango Kidd said, “The Board of Governors of the Federal Reserve is a government body charged with overseeing the FED,”

        Which means it’s Not a private cabal.

        Dr. Gary North said that quote Durango Kidd, to say he, “does not understand the banking system in the USA at all” is very laughable. Perhaps you misunderstood.

        The FED insists that someday, it will unwind. It refuses to say when. It refuses to say how. It refuses to comment on what the results will be.”

        Here is the article he said it in:

        Why Inflation Will Come

      80. Clark;  The Board of Govenors of the Federal Reserve is a government (org) committee charged with overseeing the Federal Reserve.

        The Federal Reserve is a cabal of member banks (all private).

        If the good doctor doesn’t understand the tools at Bernanke’s disposal then he has missed something along the way. Second, Bernanke is not going to explain to North or any of US what he intends to do before he does it, how he intends to do it, or when he intends to do it.

        I mentioned in my previous post and in other posts on this thread, what tools Bernanke has to work with. When he uses those tools is anyone’s guess, but my guess is that it is some ways away as MM2 and MM3 and credit swap losses must be mitiagated first, and that requires the large, excess reserves for the member banks, that he has created by QE2. These excess reserves will be absorbed by the losses that are coming.

        That other financial analysts do not see the true intent of QE2 and continue to lament the creation of money (that is never going to circulate within the economy) is beyond me.

        To me, the intent of QE2 is as clear as the nose on the end of my face. The massive 800 billion dollar bailouit of the banks didn’t create hyper inflation and neither will the additional bailouts. It will create serious inflation eventually, and I do expect double digit inflation (including food and fuel) by the end of next year.

        Double digit inflation is not hyper inflation.

        This will take a long time unwind. Probably five years or more with an economy growing at 2.5 to 3.5% per year and unemployment no better than 7% unless those that are no longer receiving UI are not counted.

        What is laughable is that all of you doom and gloomers believe the FED is all powerful, but then refuse to believe it is powerful enough to manage the crisis. I am laughing all the way to the bank, because the more money Uncle Ben creates the richer in real terms I get. Get gold.

      81. Hey Lisa,
        I guess you don’t speak Spanish, lol.  No self respecting male would go by “Butterfly of  Gold”  ;o)  That said, I am an unusual female.  I’m an electronics techincian by trade and former Army sergeant.  I’m presently working in the Republic of the Marshall Islands in a telemetry ground station.  I have a ‘guy’ job but on weekends love to make dresses, lol.  Yep, I’m a strange mix!

        Check out this video in fractional reserve banking.   You may find it informative.

      82. Clark: I followed the link on lewrockwell and read North’s article. He says what I have been telling you folks here for a week: when the commerical banks start to lend, inflation will set in. Thing is, banks are not now, and will not be lending much if at all, for quite some time End of story.

        I don’t disagree with that statement, but the banks are not going to lend that money because if they do, they will not have enough reserves to absorb the losses that are coming. Massive losses I know that are coming and massive losses that they know are coming.

        He does suggest that the banks are somehow independent from the FED and might decide to lend money. Not! The will all fall in line and do what he says. They will sink or swim together or sacrifice one to save themselves. (Lehmen Bros)

        They are going to do exactly what Ben tells them to do. If the American people understood that QE2 was really Bailout Number Two, all of the preps we have been doing would be very valuable because the SWHTF!

        Which is why Bernanke is marketing it as “quantitative easing”. Let me say again. No hyper inflation, but double digit inflation by the end of next year; all things remaining equal.

      83. MDO: As someone on the front lines of global warming, what is the discussion among the population there in the Marshall Islands with respect to rising water?

      84. DK,
        You said “Which is why Bernanke is marketing it as “quantitative easing”. Let me say again. No hyper inflation, but double digit inflation by the end of next year; all things remaining equal.”  Things probably won’t remain equal.  The USA has many enemies you are just waiting to pounce.  Does anyone really believe they won’t try to push us off the cliff we’ve so stupidly place ourselves on?  They will strike when thye feel we are most vulneralbe.

      85. MDO: Maybe not. Financially things will probably get a little better. The banks and big business are hoarding tons and tons of cash, so there’s a safety net there, for them.

        State and municipal defaults haven’t begun yet, and California will benefit from higher oil prices. Much of the doom and gloom here is from those accepting the most adverse scenario as already happening, and the hyper inflation scare is just one example of that.

        As a nation we were probably most vulnerable two years ago with a new President and massive financial crisis. Our enemies, whoever the “they” is that you are refering to shouyd have “pushed US off a cliff” or “pounced” then,  if “they” were feeling the least bit froggy.

        I am more afraid of an act of God exacerbating a tenuous recovery than I am of bank failure. In Europe I expect three nations to exit the EMU, then a reorganization that will strengthen it politically and financially.

      86. Durango Kidd – Why are you expecting three nations to exit the EMU? Which ones and why? Would Germany be one? Why only three?
        de Oro – Nope! I am not very good with Spanish, even though I grew up in San Diego and took Spanish. I haven’t used it much. Let me thank you for your service to this country. I stand and applaud you!!!

      87. Durango – How do you see things getting better? Whitney says that come Spring, look out! Jan – March are generally down times, Christmas is over and not until after taxes will retail pick up, if it does. We have muni’s scaring people, more homes to go under, more people to fall off unemployment with not net…so, more people on the street.  No one is moving the jobs back to the US, but the Chinese are moving into Saginaw,  so 3,000 new jobs there! I just don’t see how it works out!

      88. I forgot, the stimulus is ending this next year, right? QE ain’t helping us. I don’t know how it is going to get better.

      89. Durango Kidd, how can the Fed be private and have a .gov web address? It’s not private, quasi-government perhaps, but not private.

        Dr. North called the housing bubble well in advance, the financial crash too, did you? He does have a handle on things.

        For as much as you bash him, it’s odd how much of what you say is going to happen is exactly what he says too.

        Dr. North understands the tools available to The Ben Bernank,… which all end in economic Depression or massive inflation, there’s no escape.

        Good to see you at least read some of his writing.

        There are a few wild cards out there though that could spill the apple cart, but only time will tell.

      90. Clark: If you believe that the Federal Reserve is “quasi-governmental” it shows your absolute ignorance of the financial system that you comment so much about.

        Don’t take that personally. Ignorance is not a character flaw: It is only a lack of knowledge, which is why it is so hard to make you understand what is really happening in the country financially.

        I didn’t “bash” him. I criticised a comment which you cut and pasted out of context to support your belief of hyper inflation and or collapse; but the full article was not oriented that way.

        Yes, there are a few wild cards out there to be played out, but under the circumstances, and understanding the options that Uncle Ben has, he is doing the best he can in a difficult situation, and the right thing for US. At the proper time he will contract the money supply, while there is still no demand, and the losses have been written off.

        This doesn’t mean that I support the policies that got US here, or that the FED should not lose its banking franchise. It just means for now, I think he is choosing the best of two evils. The proof of the pudding is always in the eating of it. We shall see.

      91. Durango – Can you answer my questions? Please?

      92. Lisa: I am expecting three to exit: Geece for sure because it cannot reconcile its financial situation with its political process. Maybe Ireland, and Portugal, because they seem to have similar problems if not as fatal. I say three because that coincides with Revelation, the European Union, and end times prophecy as I read it.

        I believe that we are in the Last Days, for as long as they last.

        Germany will not support them and from this crisis the EU/EMU will eventually grow stronger and more powerful, thus the “reorganiszation” with new rules and regulations and a strong central bank dominate by Germany. 

        Every crisis has a seed of opportunity. The bigger the crisis, the bigger the opportunity. That is why I am so optimistic about the future of America: we will take the road to freedom and individual liberty. Europe will pursue the path of uniformity and cooperation.

      93. Durango – That is what I thought when I read your post. I don’t think that we are at that point of  the Bible timeline. That does nto mean tht countries are not going to fall out of the EU. There are many types and shadows in Scripture. Since you are aware of Prophecy, and that there will one day be a One World Gov’t for awhhile, under a particular person, “Antichrist”, who stipulates the “Mark” as mandatory, what’s happening now is apart of the future scenario. There are going to be quite terrifying times that come upon our country to break it down. It needs to be broken from what it is to welcome the Antichrist. So, knowing that there is a planned cashless society, and that this “one” wants to rule it and have the world worship him, yes, there is a diabolical force behind all that is going on. I don’t believe that a lot of the people in gov’t who are pawns of this “spirit” even know that they are being used or directed to do this bidding to fulfill his desires. You can see how people who believe in our Constitution are vilified. Any right that we have WILL be taken away. So, being prepared to wether the bad times that happen before the Tribulation is important. I believe that at some point, Jesus does return for his people. Until He returns, I plan on being prepared. I do expect Europe to fall. And, for some reason, I believe that the Antichrist will be a Jewish person.

      94. DK,
        Front lines of global warming?  LMAO.  I ‘ve been here for three and half years and according to the AGW crowd we should be going under by now.  The ocean is the same level as when I got here.  Algore claimed that in 5 years the polar ice caps would be gone and the island nations would be submerged.  That was almost three years ago.  Living here is what convinced me the who AGW thing is a scam.  The only poeple freaked out about it are the brainwashed Americans.  I have yet to hear a Marshallese person even mention it.  I’m in the lower social strata and thus don’t rub elbows with the Marshallese who will get money as a result of ‘climate justice’.  I’m sure they talk it up all the time.  The poor stiffs at the bottom of the food chain will never see a penny of that money and don’t seem to care either way.

        @durango kidd
         I read most of the comments  on these boards, and i thought I’d make a comment about your statement concerning America.  First, I centainly hope you are right about your optimism that the US will take the road to freedom and individual liberty.
           The only problem with that thought, is that we lost our freedoms years ago, and we aren’t really a free nation.  We have been given the illusion of freedom, such as voting, but our freedoms went out the door, with passage of such laws as the Patriot Act, Osamacare, and the Food Safety Act, recently passed.  Those laws are just for starters. The literal glut of Executive acts that are passed, policies that are instituted, and more and more taxes that are passed, have insured that we lose every freedom we ever thought about having. I see this happening every day.  All done in the name of personal safety, but actually done in the name of control.
             Our constitution has been disregarded as a useless relic, and America’s attention has been diverted by our insatiable desire for American Idol, and dancing With The Stars–on and on.  Judges, legislating from the bench, with no regard for what the Constitution says.  You get the picture.  The foxes have been guarding the hen house for too long.  Now, it’s time to pay the price.
            I don’t see as rosy a picture as you do.  I believe that we have already fallen off the economic cliff, and just don’t realize it, because we haven’t hit bottom.  And individual freedom??? What individual freedom??  Forced buy in to an unaffordable medical system.? Forced strip searches if you refuse to be microwaved at the airport, or have your children molested right in front of you, then labeled a domestic extremist?? Please—we lost our ‘free country” status a long time ago, and just didn’t realize it.
            I don’t waste my time anymore trying to convince people of what’s coming.   There can be some wild card events that can change things one way or the other, but in my opinion, the die has been set.   Our leadership, under the control of the elites, has chosen to place us under a fascist system of government. if anyone can’t see that, they’re dillusional.  The joining of business and government into one big conglomeration is happening more each day.   One can be optimistic if they like, even I hope I’m absolutely wrong.  But when the events, and the actual laws are staring you in the face everyday, there can be no other conclusion.
             Wake up everyone.  You’ll live and die by your preps.  I don’t know when it’s all going to come crashing down, but fall it will.  Sooner or later. There are too many irreversable factors that have been set in motion.  What happens overseas, will happen here.  it’s all connected. just give it time.   Also, don’t be to distracted by the daily news that’s reported.  Most of it is distraction to keep you from focusing on what’s really important. Good luck, you’re going to need it.

      96. The problem I think, is people thought they were entitled to a house.  So it was not their problem how much it was, someone HAD to loan to them.  Then banks, being greedy by nature (and that is completely and totally fine, I too am greedy in the same way, then again I am a business man and make my own way) took advantage of these people.  But their greed was also their downfall.  They had little interest in “what-if’s”, looking at those slowed down the ability to count interest payments.

        One thing a lot of people fail to get/see/realize about our great (sarcasm) fractional reserve banking system is, that all the money created can be paid back, but the interest has to be borrowed and created to be paid back.  Meaning more debt and interest.  Of which only the principle can be repaid, again.  Its an endless loop, of which you want to be the one getting the interest.  Then its great!

      97. Durango Kidd, the Fed has a .gov web address, please show one example of a private person or private organization that has a .gov web address?

        Also, please show an example of a priavte company or organization that can have its leadership replaced by the President?

        The quotes I placed were Not to show support for hyper-inflation or collapse but to show that money creation – and therefore hyper-inflation – Is a process ultimately controlled by the government.

        Who controls the government is another question.

        “A quasi-governmental organization, corporation, business, or agency (parastatal) is an entity that is treated by national laws and regulations to be under the guidance of the government, but also separate and autonomous from the government. While the entity may receive some revenue from charging customers for its services, these organizations are often partially or majorly funded by the government. They are usually considered highly important to smooth running of society, and are sometimes propped up with cash infusions in times of crisis to help surmount situations that would bankrupt a normal privately-owned business. They may also possess law-enforcement authority, usually related to their functions.” – Wiki

        That sure does seem to describe The Fed, don’t you think?

        All these opinions are interesting.  Here’s the overall guidline that I expect to see carried out by the ruling elites, or whatever you choose to call them.
           So far, we see crisis after crisis.  When each one starts, the public begs for relief.  The government kicks in money they don’t have to give relief that really isn’t going to happen.  Have you noticed the repeating cycle yet.???
               The scumbag aholes who caused the problem in the first place wait till things get bad enough, like now, and offer relief, which makes the problem worse.  They are giving us what the sheeple demand, which is never going to work.  We can never, repeat, never pay this debt back.  if we were taxed at 100% of earnings, we can never pay it back. So this QE 1, QE2, and on, and on, isn’t going to work, and they know it.  It was never meant to work.  it’s meant to break everyone down, and make them slaves to the government.
              At some point in the future, all the sheeple will beg to be saved by the very aholes who created the problem.  That’s the plan. The end result is total control over the masses.  if you can’t see that that’s what they’re doing right now, you deserve you’re own terrible end result.
             The only way to counteract their plan is to prep with the very things they are seeking to control you with. You already know what that is.  Remember, it’s all about control.  it’s that simple, and everything they do hinges on keeping control, and gaining more over everyone.
           What do you think Nafta, Osamacare, patriot act, 911, Oklahoma city bombing, on and on, was for.???? They have a plan, an agenda, and we are right smack in the middle of it.
             Now go do what you know you need to do…

      99. @ Lisa ~

        In answer to your questions regarding the immediate future of our poor, bankrupt country and as to when ‘things’ are going to get better for the average US Citizen? Our situation isn’t going to improve anytime soon! 2011 will be a very interesting time for the United States and the world.

        My advice to you? If you don’t already have one, get yourself a Mossberg 20 ga. ‘snake-charmer’ (pistol-grip, pump action shotgun) and an assortment of slugs & #4 buckshot and learn how to use them. That’s what I feel that our immediate future holds for us.

        @ Clark & Durango Kid –

        I am declaring you both ‘winners’ in your current ‘spat’. It’s now OK to quit bashing each other online. There are many much more deserving entities to kick the crap out of than each other.

      100. Many Americans live precariously close to the edge of financial insolvency flirting with economic disaster daily.  If you casually browse mainstream articles and watch any amount of television you would think that the US still had a vibrant and strong middle class.  When we pull back the covers on the current financial situation we realize that many Americans are merely getting by and many would like to live in some 1984 Orwellian fantasy world where suddenly things are back to financial equilibrium.  43 million Americans are depending on government food assistance to get by.  But many more millions are merely living paycheck to paycheck hidden in the cellar of the headlines.  1 out of 3 Americans has zero in any retirement account (not one slowly eroding dollar).  Half of Americans have $2,000 or less which puts them one month away from needing government assistance.  With the volatile job market and turbulent Wall Street middle class Americans are feeling the once prided stability being slowly washed away.  Let us examine how retirement is now becoming more of a fantasy for many Americans.

      101. Pretty good summation, greaseman.

        MadMarkie said, “There are many much more deserving entities to kick the crap out of…”

        Or perhaps just walk away, a.k.a. Opt Out.

        How does a person, “Opt Out” from being screwed over by The Fed -  – and their enforcers?

        Some say, form a network of like minded people and trade within that group, using silver and gold coins might work, or bartering,  and by , as you say with #4 shotgun shells, being responsible for your own security.

        “I see two paths. Americans can do this either acting as individuals formed into a body politic of 300 million Americans or as 50 body politics organized by state. I think action by state has a better chance of success.” – from, The Breakup of the United States, please read the whole article if you would:

      102. Hey Guys. these are my thoughts, exactly, and I am not a “tactical” person who thinks like this. Must be in the wind, ya know? I know that back in VA and surrounding vicinity they have the necessary people. Just be very careful. I suspect that the gov’t is reading these blogs, and perhaps, even some of the posters could be gov’t folks hoping to rile us all up. Them folks in Idaho are right!!!

      103. Mad Markie: I am not trying to “win” anything. I am trying to explain how the financial system actually works so that people need not fear “collapse” and can understand what is actually happening. Then I discover that Clark doesn’t even know the most basic characteristic of the financial system, which is that the Federal Reserve is privately owned. Yet this guy cuts and pastes and comments as if he is a Phd in Finance, taking quotations out of context from the original articles to “prove” his point. How pathetic!

        People don’t need disinformation. Clark may be an expert in something; but he doesn’t know SQUAT about banking and finance.  The people here need the facts and ocasionally someone with a little more knowledge about a topic to clue them in, give them some insight, and connect the dots for them.

        I can’t repair my car, my brother is the motorhead in the family, but I do know a little bit about banking after spending a considerable amount of my career as a consultant working for the major banks.

        Clark is a waste of everybody’s time: particularly his own.

      104. Greaseman: Understand your thinking and i agree with your assessment of where we are; we just don’t have to remain there. I believe the last election was the beginning of a Second American revolution to reclaim our heritage and change our government. I believe this Revolution will be 12 years in the making; not unlike the original.

        Collectively, we have the power to shape our future, but we must organize, act and follow through to restore the Constitution to its right place in our political and legal systems. If you want a chilling, but optimistic vision of America’s future, read the story of Washington’s Vision.

        The Boomer’s have not yet begun to fight. November 2010 was a good beginning.

      105. It is a fact that the Austrian Economist saw the housing bubble years in advance (unlike the banks!) and the financial crash years in advance (unlike the banks!) and the Austrian Economist wrote a lot about these events beforehand to warn people, unlike the banks!

        It seems like it would be a good idea to listen to the Austrian Economist now, but I suppose, “some” people would prefer the knowledge of Durango Kidd who doesn’t seem to know the difference between a .org and a .gov web address, on top of that Durango Kidd is, or was, a consultant working for the major banks!? that sure explains Everything.

      106. “In short, the Federal Reserve was designed to act as a government-sponsored and -enforced cartel promoting the income of banks by preventing free competition from doing its constructive work on behalf of the consumer”

        The Federal Reserve as a Cartelization Device

        In what way does that description fit a private organization?
        It does Not.

        “…an institution created by act of Congress, whose board is appointed by the president, and which does the government’s bidding, is a government institution —”

        Why Do They Love the Fed?

        “No one raises the issue of why the Web addresses of the 12 regional Federal Reserve Banks end in .org, but the Board of Governors ends in .gov.

        The only exception in the mainstream media is Glenn Beck. He does give some time to this topic…”

        Anti-Gold Conservatives

      107. Clark; That’s right I worked as a consultant for the major banks and as Chief Appraiser for one of them, I flew around the country evaluating commercial and high end residential foreclosures. Prior to an early retirement from the financial services industry 15 years ago, I held four professional licenses in mortgages, real estate, appraisal, and securities. I have done every thing in real estate from property management to shopping center development to secondary marketing of MBS portfolios; and have two business degrees.

        15 years ago I exited the financial services industry and began to pursue mining and energy issues because I recognized the hand writing on the wall. I own a pm mine, which I discovered. It is a new discovery, not the purchase or redevelopment of an old mine. There are only six other mines like it in all of North America.

        So I also know a little something about mining and precious metals. I intend to drill my own oil and gas leases with my own money. Then we will see if I know anything about oil and gas.

        Based upon your comments on this thread, I can only conclude that all you know about the banking and financial services industry is how much money you may have in your checking account and how to use your debit card.

        No one here should take their cue from you for infomation about the economy. You have exposed your lack of education, and experience by not grasping the most basic elements of the banking industry which would be apparent to a first year business major at any community college or university.

        You did a grave disservice to this community and to Dr North by misrepresenting his article.

        You don’t know squat!

      108. Another wonderful distracting ad hominem from Durango Kidd, the banker’s friend.

        It was such a joy to discuss the issues with you.

        I understand you can’t get off of the mainstream educational track, always such a tragedy to see those who fail to consider anything that does not fit the mold their masters of government education have provided for them.

        The .gov issue does seem to get you bent out of sorts. Bankers and their friends are like that.

        I have misrepresented nothing, I stand by what I have presented.

        I don’t expect anyone to go by what one person says, everyone should do their own research and learn for themselves, that is why I have provided links and easily search-able quotes, unlike some who resort to ad hominem attacks to skirt the subject.

        The facts remain:

        “…an institution created by act of Congress, whose board is appointed by the president, and which does the government’s bidding, is a government institution —”

        “No one raises the issue of why the Web addresses of the 12 regional Federal Reserve Banks end in .org, but the Board of Governors ends in .gov”

      109. @clark – Actually, I’m fairly certain that the Congress recommends the Chairmen of the Federal Reserve Bank and the President confirms.  The rest of them are not government appointed.  Now, it’s really a mute point anyways.

        Anyone that thinks the Federal Reserve is a good thing should probably be exciled from the country as a traitor (or worse I suppose but why waste bullets/rope?)  We should never forget Kensyenian economics and it should be studied, but only as what not to ever do again.

        I think one of the first things a possible American Revolution (part 2) should do is remove a central bank.  They’re are useless, I think Durango Kidd could fully agree with that statement.

      110. The Fed’s monetary and fiscal policies will probably result in double-digit inflation like we had in the 1970’s.  But the prospect of hyperinflation is very real and not a trivial matter.  The entire world-wide commodity market is priced in USDollars.  Oil, food, raw materials, gold, silver, everything that goes into finished goods is now paid for with virtual pictures of Ben Franklin.  The problem is that the rest of the world is waking up to the fact that Uncle Ben is flooding the system with dollars.  It matters not to the Chinese, OPEC, Russians, or Indians that the new dollars may or may not eventually find their way onto Main Street.  All they know is that dollars are becoming too plentiful and therefore less valuable.  At some point in the future, the prices of commodities will be priced in yen or yuan or rubles or gold, or a combination.  That is when hyperinflation explodes, when confidence in the dollar evaporates.  China has been pledging its pile of USTreasuries for everything they can buy, from raw materials to European debt to oil fields to gold and silver (the real metal, not the paper variety).  When the dollar’s value evaporates, they will be holding real stuff, while we and the rest of the world are left with piles of worthless dollars.  Hyperinflation is not a monetary event, it is a loss of confidence.  At that point, it will not matter if we can afford oil or copper or wheat.  The price in dollars will be astronomical.  The price in gold or silver, however, will be pretty much what is right now. 

        Uncle Ben has exactly zero tools to combat a loss of confidence in the dollar, and he knows it.  Hyperinflation will happen, considering how reckless the Fed is, and it could happen virtually overnight.

        Got gold (and silver)?

      111. Dengineer-

        Well stated IMO.  You’ve done a nice job of defining the spark for the crisis (lack of confidence) rather then bloviate ad hominem about the many effects of inflation (rising prices, shortages, velocity of money etc). 

        Durango Kidd holds tight to his point that all of the money printed over the last two years is not (or never) going “into circulation.”  He pines that these funds were created only to correct the balance sheets of the major banks (nevermind that those bad debts will eventually come home to roost somehow).  Because these major banks won’t be lending these newly created trillions of dollars, there can’t be any “hyper” inflation.   He might be correct about the circulation issue, as I have no way or means to offer any argument against how these banks use those funds.

        However, this sidesteps one simple definition…The definition of inflation. 
        Inflation = The creation of fiat currency.  Period. 

        Once the Fed began their bailouts, QE2 etc, we had inflation.  The effect of this causation is typically “too much money chasing too few goods” which based on the simple laws of supply & demand lead to price increases.  Whether those increases are “mild” “strong” “Hyper” is a pretty meaningless debate IMO because there are many other factors that can impact final product pricing (weather, labor disputes, war, limited natural resources, etc) that have nothing to do with the state of the currency it is priced in.

        DEngineer hits the TRUE issue right on the head.  We’ve already got inflation…Now it comes down to whether the world continues to believe in the “Full Faith & Credit of the US Govt” will determine if the effects of that inflation are just “double digit” or “hyper” (ala Zimbabwee/Weimer Rep). 

        So…The only question left to ask is, “What do you think the World thinks about the faith & credit of our Government & its inflated currency?”  If you think, “they LOVE us.”  then all talks of hyper inflation are just meaningless dribble filling up your e-mail box.  If not, start trading those soon to be worthless FRN’s for things of real value.

        Oh, Durango.  I have no interest in battling with you, Clark or anyone.  If I’ve mis-represented your beliefs, my apologies.  Feel free to clarify, but no need to load up the e-gun coming after me, as it will only be returned with silence.

      112. Hey Dad! Happy New Year! Let me add a few things as I do want you and anyone else who cares to understand what I am saying. Yes, serious inflation, probably double digits by next year at this time; but not hyper-inflation which is quite different and is more of a currency issue with other variables.
        Yes, QE2, the money being created by Uncle Ben is designed to be held by the member banks in reserve. As they book the losses from mortgage foreclosures (after the resale) they will have to deduct those losses from their balance sheet. This will lower their reserve ratio. If their reserve ratio drops below a certain level, the bank(s) is technically insolvent (again). After they deduct their losses these “excess reserves” merely replace the “current reserves” which have disappeared from the losses, and the bank(s) no longer have “excess reserves”: just “reserves” above their reserve ratio requirement.
        By increasing the reserves in advance by “purchasing” T-Bonds, when the banks are already loaded with dollars that they are not lending, Uncle Ben is in fact bailing the banks out again, in advance, instead of after the fact. This money never enters circulation. It is never lent to borrowers (no demand anyway) and it is never multiplied by “fractional banking”.
        It is not a “stimulus” as it stimulates nothing. It is a bailout to the tune of $100 billion a month, for the next two or three years. Imagine the outcry from the public if they understood it was a constant (monthly) bailout to cover gangster bankster losses; support the stock prices of the member banks of the FED, and generate massive end of year bonuses every year for these criminals, while the US taxpayer eats the losses of a private business cabal: Washington would be on fire!
        Imagine if the price of oil suddenly dropped from $90 to $40 per barrel and we told the Saudi’s: “Hey! We are going to keep paying you $90 per barrel because we don’t want you to lose money because the economy has changed!” The taxpayers would be violently enraged. And they should be now, because the $800 billion we forked over two years ago was just the down payment!
        This continuous massive bailout (QE2, and QE3 when it comes) does have consequences for our national debt, and these consequences are not good. However, the economy needs a banking system unless we want the entire economy to come to a standstill, and stabilizing the banks over the next three to five years is going to be the number one priority of Uncle Ben and the NWO. Afterall, it’s their seat of power.
        Double digit inflation (including food and fuel), yes; hyper inflation? No.
        As for the confidence factor, the dollar is still the world reserve currency, and it is to the dollar that investors flee in a dangerous world. In recent weeks the dollar has strengthened; not that it should, but it has. It should decline another 25% against gold in 2011. Having said that, don’t think I wouldn’t be buying Yuan if I wasn’t loaded with gold and silver.

        Happy New Years Folks. keep an eye out for crazies on the road. oh, thats US!

      113. “Imagine the outcry from the public if they understood…”

        Psft, a big If.
        There’s an awful lot of pressure to stop that from happening:

        ‘Yes, Virginia, There Really Is a Free Lunch’
        “Keynesian economists cannot think straight. It takes years of convoluted anti-logic, beginning with the freshmen economics course, to train intelligent people to accept the anti-logic of what is known as the neo-Keynesian/neo-classical synthesis.”

        From an article titled, The Myth of the Independent Fed:

        “Ever since its founding in 1913, the Fed has described itself as an independent agency operated by selfless public servants striving to fine-tune the economy through monetary policy. In reality, however, a non- political governmental institution is as likely as a barking cat. Yet, the myth of an independent Fed persists. One reason this myth persists is that statist textbooks have helped perpetuate it for decades.”

        Whatever the public thinks does not seem to matter anyway.

        “…the FED was buying repos from the banking system (inflationary — more money in circulation) while selling other assets (deflationary — less money in circulation). The FOMC sold more assets than it bought during this one-month period, which is the only way the adjusted monetary base could fall. …this indicates that the FOMC has lost control over the monetary base.”

        This seems to support some of yourdaddy’s hyperinflation position, from Retired Finance Professor Mike Rozeff on the coming Fed hyperinflation:

        “My bet is this. One fine day the bottom is going to drop out of the dollar. There will be a swift and sharp order of magnitude change. The recognition of the problems will reach a point at which it starts to go exponential, not just in terms of people being vaguely conscious that things are not right, but in terms of actually taking action to protect themselves. Foreign central banks may be reluctant to dump their dollar securities and think it better to liquidate them slowly so as not to drive prices down and break the market, but when they observe that others are running for the exits, they will run too. There will be a run on the FED and a run on the U.S. government.”

        This too seems to support yourdaddy’s hyperinflation position, The FED: No Exit:

        “The more that the FED becomes engaged in the government’s fiscal policies and debt management, and the more that the FED depends on Treasury financing, the greater the risk that the FED is unable to disengage from the government. The greater becomes the risk that it will continue and expand its credit activities at the government’s behest or pressure. The greater become the risks of high inflation or even hyperinflation. The latter can occur through a loss in confidence among Americans or other holders of dollar denominated bonds that the FED has the situation under control.”

        [And then there’s this from the same article:]

        “The FED changed its basic nature when it chose to make loans to specific entities, rather than providing general credit to the banking system. It became a fixed income fund. It replaced the capital market. It allocated credit. This too is a kind of fiscal function practiced by governments that wish to control the economy’s financing.

        All told, the FED has changed from a largely monetary institution to a monetary and fiscal institution that is linked to the Congress and the Treasury, i.e., to the government. The FED was never completely independent, of course. It was a private-public institution, but one whose activities were mostly monetary (apart from the period of the Accord). Now its activities are more in the public domain, more fiscal, and more governmental. They are more under the influence of government. That has historically been a situation that created higher inflation and sometimes hyperinflation.”

        Much like the housing bubble which was seen by some people as a dam with many holes, Central Banks Can’t Stop Global Unraveling:

        “…the monetarist perspective – that the Fed, by tightening in the 1930s, or at least not loosening enough, turned a downturn into a disaster. This was a far more feasible scenario to us and others, and has been vehemently debated for decades. But now we have had the opportunity to watch a major credit crisis unfold in the 21st century. Lo and behold, we have seen to our satisfaction that it has NOTHING to do with monetary policy after-the-fact and everything to do with an over-printing of fiat money for months, years, even decades, prior to the latest great unraveling.

        Murray Rothbard and the Austrians had it right after all!…”

      114. Comments…..Can somebody please explain why I need to pay off my debts? What does it matter if everything is about to collapse anyway? Right now I’m thinking about maxing out another credit card and buying some more food. Any thoughts

      115. jmr2mc,

        The reason a lowly serf such as yourself should pay off your debts is due to the slim chance of a GLOBAL Mad Max world.   Any outcome short of that will likely require you to ‘honor’ your ‘obligation’ to The System, whatever that turns out to be.  Remember, its the little guy that always gets the shaft.  Whatever happens, those in power WILL rule at your expense.  They are COUNTING on the ignorance of the masses.  They lie and manipulate to keep you working for them.  So unless you’re certain that Mad Max World is coming soon, I suggest you get those debts paid off.  Remember, your assets can/will be destroyed or confiscated but your debt to THEM will remain no matter what happens, short of Mad Max World.  JMO.

      116. Yo jmr2mc –

        The one thing that thay can’t ‘ding’ you on for making a massive purchases of just prior to declaring bankruptcy is food. Purchases within 180 days of declaring bankruptcy of expensive jewlery, electronics, etc. that are considered by the bankruptcy court to be an unnecessary luxury and won’t be disdharged under the terms and consitions of your Bankruptcy Order. You will end up paying for these items.

        Judicious purchases of socks, underwear, jeans, shirts, boots and jackets will more than likely be ok right up until the day that you file.

        I have no idea of how many credit cards that you have. Most of us posting here are probably still able to qualify for a complete discharge of our debts.

      117. When Christie drives himself to the work in a compact car, then I’ll believe NJ is serious about cutting expenses.


      1. Former Shell Oil Chief Predict $5 Gas by 2012 - [...] crisis in 2007/2008 and we’re seeing it now in the state budget crisis. Meredith Whitney explained it best in…

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