Organized Crime: Colleges Refuse to Release Official Transcripts Of Students Who Have Defaulted On Loans

by | Apr 4, 2012 | Headline News | 273 comments

Do you LOVE America?


    As has been highlighted countless times before – our modern day college education system is nothing but a coordinated scam by colleges to generate as much revenue as possible and for the bankers financing the loans to enslave unsuspecting borrowers for decades.

    Most college graduates assume that once they’ve completed their higher education studies and earned their degree no one can ever take it away from them. Unfortunately, the US Department of Education and most colleges in America take a different position. Their official policies dictate that if your student loan is in default they do not have to provide you, prospective employers or other universities with your official transcript if requested to do so.

    By the end of college, he was $62,000 in debt but was making payments regularly until Temple laid him off, allegedly because of budget cuts. That’s when his problems began. (Pedro Rodriguez is a pseudonym to protect his identity.)

    Unable to find a job as a music teacher in the current economic crisis, he eventually went into default on his loans, which included Stafford, Perkins and private bank loans. Then this year, he decided to go on to earn a PhD, which would make it possible for him to get hired in his field. He applied to a top-rated university in the Northeast, but when it was time to send his school transcripts, Temple froze him out. “They said as long as I was in default on my loans, they would not issue a transcript!” says Rodriguez.

    A spokesman from Temple confirms that it is school policy to withhold official transcripts from graduates who are in default on their student loans. As it turns out, the school is not alone; this is the position taken by most colleges and universities, though there is no law requiring such an extortionate position. They do this despite the fact the colleges themselves are not out the money. They have received the students’ tuition payments in full and are in effect simply acting as collection agencies for the federal government.

    The US Department of Education says only that it “encourages” colleges to withhold transcripts, a tactic which the department, in a letter to colleges, claims coldly “has resulted in numerous loan repayments.”

    Source: The Nation

    With the unemployment rate in America  for those in the 18 to 24 year old age group at 46%, and the broader unemployment rate above 20%, the entire system is destined for failure. It’s difficult enough for those graduating from school to find a job in today’s economic climate, as evidenced by the 85% of graduates who have been forced to move in with mom and dad once they complete their studies because there are simply no meaningful jobs to be had. Now, the one advantage these individuals believe they have in their pursuit of a job – the college degree they were told they earned – doesn’t exist if they have fallen on hard times and have failed to make their loan payments.

    By all accounts, these policies (not legal statutes) are akin to organized crime:

    Karl Denninger opines at The Market Ticker:

    Ah, so it’s not your degree.  It’s theirs.

    Even though they suffered no loss and no injury if/when you default, they reserve the right to retroactively add terms and conditions to that degree after the program of study is completed.

    This would be considered fraud were we to live in a land with the rule of law, and if undertaken in concert with others (like The Department of Education, which “encourages” this practice) Racketeering.

    While colleges may make it seem as if the sole purpose for their existence is to help you succeed and prosper after you’ve left their benevolent campuses, these policies of retroactive indentured servitude make it clear that they are interested in one thing and one thing only: Your Money. This isn’t about making the world a better place or developing a skilled workforce. It’s about how much money they can make, you’re future be damned.

    Fully 25% of student loans in America are currently in default – that’s $270 billion in loans that are not getting paid. Based on these industry-wide policies, what this suggests is that for 25% or more of college graduates there exists no official evidence that they ever even attended school, except, of course, for the remaining loan balance owed to their bank.


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      1. Better save the one official copy they give you at graduation.
        Of course you can’t get a really good job without the transcripts, so good luck ever paying off the loans.

        • countryboyseein

          Good advice.

          I bet Obama will “promise” something to the college students and other young adults facing this problem.

          Many of the young adults supported Obama in 08. Today they are not happy with how the “hope and change” has turned out.

            • Detail:

              “A new study from researchers at Jay W. Forrester’s institute at MIT says that the world could suffer from “global economic collapse” and “precipitous population decline” if people continue to consume the world’s resources at the current pace.
              Smithsonian Magazine writes that Australian physicist Graham Turner says “the world is on track for disaster” and that current evidence coincides with a famous, and in some quarters, infamous, academic report from 1972 entitled, “The Limits to Growth.”
              Produced for a group called The Club of Rome, the study’s researchers created a computing model to forecast different scenarios based on the current models of population growth and global resource consumption. The study also took into account different levels of agricultural productivity, birth control and environmental protection efforts. Twelve million copies of the report were produced and distributed in 37 different languages.
              Most of the computer scenarios found population and economic growth continuing at a steady rate until about 2030. But without “drastic measures for environmental protection,” the scenarios predict the likelihood of a population and economic crash.”

        • Just a thought…

          Maybe the government will force those who can’t find jobs to pay their college loans perform xx years of national service. (your choice: work for us or serve jail time)

          Obama said he wanted a “national security force that was just as powerful and just as well funded as our military to achieve the national objectives he has set.

          A Chilling Proposal by Barack Obama

          • Ah, kind of like the KGB which was an internal army keeping the people subdued, vs. the Soviet Army which was aimed outward, in effect.

          • If Obama is reelected, any such “programs” are possible.

            Of course nothing would be proposed until AFTER the election.

          • Ah… It all makes sence now. I just wish Obama would stop pussy footing around though. I think anyone working with the government, should be made to wear black or brown shirts and have to wear the mandatory jackboots and lederhosen pants. That way the rest of us can identify who’s who. And anyone forced to work for the government, like indebted students, they should have a bright pink shoulder patch with the words “under duress” printed on the patch. Better to know who’s who and be able to identify “Good guys” from ” Bad guys” these days.

          • KY Mom you are on the money. Student loans are NOT eliminated by bankruptcy (or anything else). They have already proposed National Service in lieu of loan repayment. It will come soon enough. All those young people will be working for the gov’t as indentured servants, and then they will not be on the list of unemployed workers. A win/win for the gov’t, a lose/lose for everyone else.

            • Just think. With 3 or 4 million in debt students, “recruited” into the Army and Marines to pay off there loans, the Military could field an extra 30-40 Divisions of Soldiers and Marines to conquer the rest of the third world. And best part about it is, there already educated!!!!

        • So let me get this straight.
          This SCUMBAG defaults on his loan obligations, THEN decides he wants to go back for more and earn a PHD, again at someone else’s expense? That about right?

          FUCK him AND his transcripts. They should lose them permanently on this asshole. He is one of the ones looking to game the system. Fucking scumbag.

          • Louie it COULD be interpreted this way, but there’s no way the guy intended to do this. Instead, he went to college with the idea in mind he’d make decent money, maybe say, 2X minimum wage. Instead, he could not find anything above minimum or maybe no job at all. He was unable to keep his loan payments up. So the idea behind going back for a PhD was to try to roll the dice again and be able to get the kind of job that would allow paying off the loans (and I should mention, being a grad student is a lot cheaper than undergrad, you can work as a teacher’s assistant and so on).

            I was actually able to score employment that was a bit over 2X minimum wage when I was done with college, and that and living modestly, got my loans paid off. Seems a lifetime ago now.

            • @ Domestic terrorist—

              Yeah, you COULD interpret it that way….

              and now he rolls the dice on YOUR fucking money AGAIN for a free fucking PHD…. he is a fucking scumbag.

              I hope they take his BALLS if he has nothing else give them for the EDUCATION HE SIGNED FOR.

              • Sounds like Louie is a non-empathetic scumbag who likes to bring others down to his level. I prefer to have compassion for people. After all we’re all in this stinking boat we call America. Nobody comes into this world looking to get a free ride. There are indeed a number of people who have a much harder time for whatever reason. I could care less what the reasons are. They are just there. And I will acknowledge them instead of pointing a gun at people like this moron fellow “louie” does. Sounds like YOU need your balls cut off. If you’re stupid enough to sound like a government puppet, then I hope they bury you right under a government building.

          • Like setting up a front company to collect millions in Government subsides, banking as much as possible in Switzerland, then putting the company in Chapter 7, the practice of getting massive loans for useless degrees and then defaulting became a BUSINESS MODEL. I met a guy on his second Masters Degree at U of M. in Ann Arbor a few years ago who said as much to my face, and neither of us were drunk. It wasn’t even a secret up there. So yeah, to Hell with “Pedro”. I got decent jobs and made good money all my life without a college degree – let him figure it out like I did.

            • Today is not the same as yesterday coach. My grandpa did pretty good for himself too without any kind of degree. But those jobs are few and far between anymore.

          • Absolutely correct. No one forced this individual to apply and receive the loans in the first place. Besides, without knowing all of the details, payments on student loans can be deferred (sometimes indefinitely) for reasons such as unemployment.

            • Everyone is forced into getting student loans. No one comes into this world dreaming about the day they get a student loans. It’s a combination of fear tactics, marketing hype, and other factors that leads a person to think they need student loans. And all that pre-meditated information gives a perception that doesn’t match reality after the fact. Students comes out of college getting hit by a reality that’s boderline criminal. The government has never been our friend. And neither have corporate entities. It takes a fool to believe otherwise. I have a whole lotta friends. And only 2 of them have college degrees. They don’t have the best jobs of those friends. The same fact rings true regardless of the time period. You can get a good job and make it with hard work and persistence. The day that becomes false will be the day America will collapse completely. Colleges do nothing but increase the debt in the world. That’s the only good they do. I have been there and done that.

        • Anybody else notice that this comments section,didn’t devolve into a bunch of people hollering FIRST and the accompanying hateful replies? I found it curious…

        • Maybe…but when I attended, I received at the end of every quarter/semester a printout of my classes and grades..;students, save every one of those.

          This should help UNTIL these are forged.

        • why bother. Don’t you see anybody can claim they have any degree you can think off. If the real one will not verify how is it different to a fake?
          There are no ethics in the empire of debt.

        • I can relate to this article 100%. I graduated college in August of 2009 with the hopes of landing at least a decent paying job. I had hopes that I could eventually pay off all my college debt, live in a decent apartment, and at least have a little money left over for savings. My dreams and hopes came to a devastating end when I could not land one interview. When I graduated from Ohio State (along with countless other students in my program) they did not help me in any way find a job. A “career advisor” looked over my resume and sent me on my way, but could give me no real advice or potential employers. You would think as one of the largest universities in the country they would have some sort of potential list of employers for its students. Anyway, on graduation day I felt accomplished because I was the first in my entire family to receive a degree and I hoped that my siblings would choose to follow in my footsteps. Keep in mind that in 2009 employers were cutting back, not hiring entry level employees. I spent hours on applying for jobs on every career website imaginable, but to no avail. I applied for over 200 jobs, but could find nothing. I was devastated and felt sick to my stomach. How could this be happening to me? I had worked so hard the last four and a half years…I even worked 2 jobs to help pay bills.

          Six months later I was homeless and depressed. Luckily, I had a friend that allowed me to sleep on his couch rent free while I continued to search for some sort of work. At this point, I begin to look for jobs outside my field, but still…nothing. I felt even sicker when lenders began to call. All I could do at this point was ask for a deferment.

          I had never felt so low. I was so devastated. I thought going to college would help so much but all I received was about $55,000 in debt. My friend graduated from grad school (Masters in Education) and managed to land a job (he’s male) quickly, however, most of his female classmates did not. His grad school program consisted of 30 students and only 8 of them landed jobs. Devastation was everywhere, I wasn’t the only one.

          To make the very long story short, two years later I was still jobless and depressed. I really felt like a failure and I was so confused about my life. I felt stuck and trapped. I ended up moving back home with my family broke and embarrassed. I didn’t even have a dollar to buy deodorant, but lenders continued to harass me. I continued to explain that I did not have any money and that I had every intention of paying but I couldn’t find a job. Not only did I owe on government loans but I also owed Ohio State on three private loans I borrowed. Those loans totaled $3,000 and did not include any sort of forbearance or deferment. Eventually, my Ohio State loan was handed over to the Ohio Attorney General and they slapped over 30% interest on it. To date the loan is nearly $6,000.

          In July of 2011, I decided that in order for me to stand out amongst other applicants I would have to get more education. So I decided to apply for grad school. Maybe an MBA would help? Everything was great, I was accepted and I was starting to feel better about the last year and a half, but then it came time for me to send out transcripts. Of course Ohio State refused to send out any official transcripts or verification of my graduation. So, I was back to square one. The biggest disappointment was that Ohio State even refused to update my unofficial transcript. Instead of it stating when I graduated, it merely had ??????? (as if I never completed college at all).

          As of today, I am working a minimum wage job 3 days per week. After I pay rent, utilities, and buy food I hardly have anything left over to pay on any debt. After this experience I see college in a very different light. I wouldn’t say that I regret going to college, ruining my credit, and incurring almost $60,000 in debt, but if I were to turn back time I would seriously consider other options. I know plenty of people with high school diplomas making three times what I make. Ha, looks like that made the better choice. I agree with the article, it’s a huge scam. It’s too bad that I fell for it.

      2. I’m sorry for posting here.
        A fellow Greek, shot himself today in the central square of Athens.
        Rest in peace my friend.
        May our Lord and Savior, forgives your sins, and gives courage to your family.
        Darkness is falling, and the beast is coming.

        Be strong. You are not alone; we are not alone.


        • prayers sent……..stay strong Manos and God bless.

        • Manos

          I saw this on the news a few minutes after it happened. My sadness can do oohing to help the situation but you and your people are always in my thoughts.

          What happens today in Greece could easily happen in other countries tomorrow.

          Love to you and yours

          Take care


        • Manos, I am so sorry to hear that. You are right, we are not alone. our Lord and Saviour is always with us. He never promised this was going to be easy, but it will soon be a lot worse for all of us. Prepare for your physical and spiritual needs, because without the spiritual preparations for what we are going to go through, the physical preps are ashes in the mouth. It is hard sometimes to keep the Lord in your heart while the darkness of this world tries to devour us. I beg anyone who doesnt have the Lord in their heart to please open your heart and mind to the possibility that this is not all there is. As a great song states; if you dont believe and I do what does it hurt if I am wrong ( I know I am not). Nothing. It makes me a better person, more caring and open to the pain of others. However, what if you are wrong and there is a Heaven and Hell, and this life is nothing but a drop in the bucket to our eternity. I would rather scrubs the toilets in heaven than be a leader in Hell. Sorry for the rant, this is something I am passionate about. Sorry Manos to steal your thread to preach

          • Thanks, all of you.

            Jim, you are not preaching. We all now, but we some times lose our path and faith.
            We must hold each others’ hands and proceed.

            Be safe.

            • manos– you and your family, and your country, are in the thoughts and prayers of more people here than you’ll ever know. NO, you are not alone. Stay strong. okie

            • Manos, Sorry to hear that…our prayers are with you all!

            • God Bless you Manos. I will have our group remember you and your family at the mid-week prayer service tonight.

          • AMEN Jim (another Jim)

          • +10 Jim! Spread the Word!

        • prayers sent. So sorry to hear this.

        • manos,

          Wow. I’m sorry about that. Surely there is hope. I know many people don’t feel it, but I do! Its there. You just have to reach down deep.

          I think of and pray for all those in Greece who are suffering.

          May God hear your pleadings.

        • Manos,

          My condolences go to you and your country. It is hard, and will get harder, but do you best to stay strong.

        • Actually, the total number of people who jumped from skyscrapers during the Depression was less than ten.

          Looks like the greeks from the days of Zorba are mostly gone by now..

        • Unfortunately desperate times cause desperate actions. So sorry he thought it not worth living. There is no way we can imagine what Greece and the people are going through. My thoughts and prayers are with all of you.

          I hope the young kids of today can hang in there long enough to make it past this economic hell. Sure does make one wonder now a days if going to college is worth it if no jobs of that quality are available. Afraid times are only going to get tougher on all of us.

          • Squirt:The book :’Better Times
            Than These’-by the author of
            ‘Forrest Gump’ answers alot of-
            What you referred to- SHH!!
            just read between the lines…

            • asil, thanks, will look it up….always enjoy a good read, especially when it has hidden messages that makes your mind think out side the box.

        • Manos I pray for your regularly, and speak of you often to ny family, as though I know you. It saddens me to hear of this news. I will continue to pray for you, your family and nation. I pray for your safety stregnth and well being. I will pray extra hard for comfort, peace and an extra dose of courage my friend. Remember that we are all in this together, land nor sea can divide the bond of brotherhood. We are all in the same boat. Again Manos I am very sorry and may you know that you have friends here that care, take care and as alway God Bless, Justincase

        • Sorry to here this Manos. We live in tough times. You and yours hang in there.

        • Good luck Manos. Post here any time.

      3. Manos, prayers sent

      4. Catch 22. Always request multiple transcripts before defaulting. The college will send you requests to donate money to them the rest of your life.

        • Good advice Shirley. Or at the very least try to get current, then request and default again.

          Clowns have these loans guaranteed by the government resulting in guaranteed demand and they still make it tough on the student. Shameful.

        • Most “official” transcripts have to be sent directly from your previous college to the next. As a student, you can usually get an “unofficial” transcript which may be enough for an employer, but not your next institution for higher learning.

          • The other part of the student loan system that is CRAP is the requirement for parents to provide their 1040, if the student is unmarried and under 24. Doesn’t matter that our daughter hadn’t lived at home from the age of 18 and was in another state, when she needed a student loan for college at the age of 22, they needed OUR tax info for her Stafford student loan app. Being as over 90% of student loans issued are now controlled by the government it is very difficult to get around this requirement.

            • yes, every high school senior appying for higher learning must fill out a fafsa and have it signed by their parent/parents/guardian along with their parents tax information and w-2’s….without this form being filled out there is no scholarships, loans or grants to be had anywhere…and it is not just the student who defaults it is the parents as well who co-signed for student loans. and most just continue on with their lives until the government or school slaps them with an overdue bill, deferment options, pay schedules etc…
              that panic and anxiety starts to set in…

      5. Who the hell is surprised with this? After all of the little intellectuals fell for the ruse “if you get an education you will be gainfully employed and have a rich life.” Yuck yuck! Then real life hits and the bills come due. “But we were promised a real job above the rest and a good life.” WTF? We can’t pay these student loans off if we are having resort to flipping hamburgers. Welcome to real life Sunshine. There are people out there that will lie to you for profit. We know this and you apparently just found this out. OPPPS!!! Those collages and professors are in this for a living at your expense. Surprised!!! Wake up and smell the roses so to say. Looks like you will be working for the Government for 10 or so years at their rate of compensation and then get your loans forgiven. You’re over 18 and an adult, what you sign is yours. Buck up! But on the brighter side; if you get Obama back in, he will be your savior. That’s been the plan all along, SUCKERS! Enrich the schools and mommy and daddy will pay for it.

        • You know what the funny part is?

          Nowadays, many fields will prefer proven experience to an education. I know quite a few folks in the tech field who are making very nice money, are well-regarded in the field, but only have a high-school diploma.

          It isn’t about the sheepskin, really. In the tech field, the shit they taught you becomes obsolete the moment the ink dries on your degree, and was likely obsolete when they taught it to you.

          In some fields (healthcare, law, engineering), yeah, you gotta get the degree, because its useful info.

          In most others? No need, as long as you gain sufficient experience, do the requisite studying yourself (which never ends, BTW), and are able to carry yourself as an educated person.

          I have a sibling in-law who is about to graduate this month with two masters’ degrees – one in anthropology, and the other in sociology. It took her 10+ years and countless dollars to get them. What does she do for a living? She’s a counseling assistant making about 1.5x minimum wage. What’s the job market for either degree? Bupkis.

          I got my own degree ages ago as an engineer (via the GI Bill). I do computers for a living these days. How that makes sense? Meh.

      6. For years I have been made to feel that if you do not have a college education, you are useless. I currently have my fair share of debt, along with the exceptional debt of a business owner with no college education.However, I have come to the conclusion that had I actually gone to college, all that would have been gained would have been more sustantial debt finacially.

        These are sad times that we are living in. I wish the best for those who have been trapped in student loans, who were only taught to feel the same way that I did about not having a college education. It is an miserable thing to say, but one of the best choices that I have ever made was not going to college. Stay strong and keep up the fight!

        • There is never any cause to be ashamed that one has not had a college education, “NEVER.” These college educated idiots are going to be in deep shit if they can’t call some blue collar guy to do their dirty work. They want it all handed to them right off of the bat as soon as they graduate. Money, home cars, vacations in the Bahamas all of it, for what? A college education? Really? There is going to come a time that a blue collar trade is going to be worth a fortune because there is going to be way too many white collars. Who is going to swing a hammer? Pick up the garbage? Lay block? Grunt in the sun? Do you think educated folks will lower themselves to this level? Not a chance. They will pay somebody first.
          A bumper sticker that always got me; IF YOU CAN READ THIS, THANK A TEACHER.
          I got a couple. If it’s raining and you’re dry, thank a roofer.
          If you live in a home, thank a Carpenter.
          If you eat, thank a Farmer.
          I just love how lofty they think they are. I wonder how they feel now that they are up to their eyeballs in debt all because they didn’t want to work for a living and fell for a sucker’s line.

          • And if you are well, thank a M.D. or Dentist, maybe a Nurse too. Not all college Grads are dorks, just some.

            • I did’nt say all were..

            • Auntie Commie wrote, “And if you are well, thank a M.D. or Dentist, maybe a Nurse too.”

              Psft, if you are well, odds are they had Nothing to do with it and most of them will make you sick if you’re well, sicker if you’re sick, and maybe even kill you.

              Most of them (not some of them) are walking hand in hand with big pharma and not doing the world any favors.

              For example:

              Recovering From Autism?


              Diabetes “Solved” the Easy, Expensive Way


            • @ clark, you’ve seen too many movies. Having been a Registered Nurse myself for over 30+ years I can tell you that I’ve seen drug addicted Doc’s and those who were Drunks, and some that were Saints too.
              Both my spouse and I have worked for big Pharma firms, and yes they are out to make a buck, but not to make you sick. Why? , because everybody is looking to sue the crap out of you if you did! The same dirtbags on welfare are hoping to win the “Lawsuit Lotto” while you’re just trying to make a living.

              Just like any profession, some are jerks, some are not.

            • Clark,

              You are correct. Doctors do not deal in health, they deal in sickness. They do have their place, when you break a bone they can assist in the repair. If you get in an automobile accident they can stop the bleeding and apply proper dressings. If you desire good health, seek out those who deal in health, not sickness.

            • Can’t thank an MD if you are well. MD don’t do well, they treat disease for profit. If you are well, thank a Naturopath or wholistic healer. Or your vegetable garden.

              Universities have over stepped thier usefulness. only 10 – 15% of grads are actually in the profession that they chose in college. With this coming into play the percentages will be much lower.

            • If that were true antie commie – then why are big Pharma immune to lawsuits?

            • Auntie Commie, did you even bother to read the links? It doesn’t seem like it.

              Auntie Commie wrote, “Both my spouse and I have worked for big Pharma firms, and yes they are out to make a buck, but not to make you sick.”

              Ah, I see you’re quite biased.
              I think you’re flat out wrong.

              The Big Pharma Corporatocracy and the Culture of Corruption


              The Big Government-Big Pharma Complex: Disease Mongering for Fear and Profit


              – Welcome to reality –

            • A Doctor? Aren’t they closely related to Bankers and Insurance scammers? They might be life saving when you need them, but all the ones I ever came across in the US probably majored in Finance and Marketing!!!! I never saw a poor Doctor!!!!

          • Hammerrun – I think I’ve seen the farmer one.

            A college degree was a good idea, 40 years ago.

            • Maybe people went to collage for an education forty + years ago. I did, and I got a pretty good education.

              Also, my son recently got his PhD in physics – – with no debt and $250 in a bank account upon getting the degree. If a student can put in some work, he or she might be sans a debt load too. However, I must admit that using debt to finance college is ultimately highly educational.

          • Thats an awfully broad brush you are painting with. I’m sure there are many more college grads here than you realize. I went to college in the 70’s-80’s and do not regret it for a minute. It didn’t make me rich, but I am better off for it. I was the first in my family to go off to school and it felt a little like the main character, Clay-Boy, in the movie “Spencers Mtn”. I am a more well rounded man and am grateful for the experience, even though it took me a couple of years to pay it off. College isn’t for everyone, but not everybody should miss it either.


            • I got my ‘Degree’ through the school of hard knocks and the School of Infantry. No regrets at all. My life has been truly, interesting and fulfilling. Still maintain a strengthened spine and constitution beats a well studied book worm any day. Life’s too short to sit in a classroom and chew the fat over other peoples thoughts and opinions. If I want to do something, I go to the ‘rockface’ and just do it. Why waste valuable time and money shining a seat to learn how other people think you should do something? If I want something done that I don’t know, I’ll just pay some pleb who’s dedicated his whole life to one occupation. After all, that’s what Dentists and Doctors are for!!!!

            • 1980 was 32 years ago.

            • Ladies and gentlemen, with Able Sable I once again present to you the classic paradigm of the American Sheeple. As with his earlier comment that losing the internet would be like the Soviet Union in the 1960s [or, say, anywhere in the US in the 1990s….DERP] I find it curious that he so proudly lets his Stupidity Flag fly.

              I have great respect for the School of Hard Knocks, but our country would be in a much better state if people like Sable would do more seat-polishing, actually READING the Constitution, Jefferson, Franklin and the other Founding Fathers. Why, indeed, bother finding out how they think you should run something? Duh??? Instead, the sheeples sit around picking their nose and watching Dancing with the Stars, and gladly outsource all their decisions to some bureaucratic pleb in the Government.

              (BTW, Sable, the plebians were the people who had to be entertained with free bread and games in Rome–not the educated professional class. You’re so illiterate you don’t know how stupid you are.)

              I am sure I will get plenty of red thumbs for not being “nice,” but wake the freak up, people. This is EXACTLY how the PTB want you to be and think. This is how they will DESTROY you.

          • I don’t feel sorry for people who took out student loans so they could live it up and not have to get a job.

            • DEAR MAMA BEAR!!!!!! Are you stalking me?
              First point I’d like to make is, why on earth should I take any interest in what the American Constitution says? It has no relevance to me. I have read it though and find it …… Interesting.
              Second point is this, Franklin, Jefferson, Washington and all the founding Farthers mean nothing to me. They are little more than historical figures in a drama that occurred generations ago.
              I do however, fully appreciate that many Americans still hold these gentleman in high esteem. And I respect that. So to, do I respect the fact that many Americans still hold the Constitution up as their founding document.

              What I am finding difficult to understand though, is why YOU are presenting ME as the classic example of the American Sheeple?? Although I spent six years living in the United States, I have NEVER watched Dancing with the Stars!!! And to clarify one little point to some readers regarding my attitude toward the founding Fathers and the Constitution, I am not an American. I simply do not recognize the Founding Fathers or Constitution or even Bill of Rights. I wasn’t born in the US, I dont hold America citizenship, nor will I ever. Quite simply because I’m more patriotic towards my country of birth than I could be of yours.
              BTW I didn’t give you a red thumbs down Mama Stalking Bear. But just to let you know, I am “wide awake” even though I’m not American. I also don’t think I’m either illiterate or stupid as you put it so frankly. But that’s OK, it just you opinion. I do believe you’re still allowed to maintain an opinion over you ways still.

          • I have trouble feeling sorry for people who warmed a seat at a college campus and partied hardy for a while and expected to be telling me what to do in a few years just because they had some official looking piece of paper. I work with college grads every day whom I am convinced have GPS devices in their car or they couldn’t even find their way to work. To be fair, most of them were stupid before they ever entered college. If you work at it, you CAN make it through college without turning into an idiot.

            • “most were stupid before they ever entered college.”

              You got that right. The student debt bubble was caused by colleges offering worthless degrees to students who had no business being there in the first place. The market is FLOODED with music, history, and English majors… and now none of them can find a job with a salary decent enough to pay off their $40K or more in debt. Well, maybe they should have thought about that before they went to college.

              I spent several years teaching at a high school in VA. I taught the ‘rough’ kids. Every year, I’d show them how if they went to a trade school and invested properly, they would be much better off in retirement than a liberal arts major. They used to laugh their asses off at the ‘dumb college kids’.

              Bottom line, if you’re not majoring in a hard science or accounting, you probably shouldn’t be in college now-a-days. Your ROI is negative.


        • Wish I had came to the same conclusion as you, before I racked up a pile of student loans.

        • I do know of one family where the Grandparents were the founding fathers so to speak of their wealth and they never made it past 8th grade. Sadly to this day, none of the kids go past jr. high, there evidently is no need being as it’s a family business. The catch is this…. the elders control EVERY THING so when they pass away, there goes all the knowledge because they never taught the grand kids how to run it. One passed away last year but when the main man goes, it will be curious to see what happens. If the money lasts past 5 years or so, it will surprise me. Seems as though all the women/kids know to do is spend, spend, spend. The point I guess I was trying to get at was sometimes one can do well in life without a college education. It just depends on what you want and are satisfied with.

          • Henry Ford had an 8’th grade education. No college just a great business that is still going strong to this day, although Henry would be rolling in his grave to see the methods his company is using today.

            • Edison didn’t even have that. But he and Ford were SMART, studied on their own, Ford was a mechanical genius who built and raced race cars. Back when that was a fire-breathing, brutal sport. (Yeah it still is but read up on those old guys.) Edison got skill as a telegrapher which was highly paid, something like a Union powerline electrician now. High pay and in demand. That allowed him to goof off a lot, and to spend a lot of money on more books and more gadgets to play with, he was known for eating the cheapest food he could get by on and not doing his laundry.

              Both were extreme statistical outliers.

            • Get ahold of some 8th grade text books from the 1800’s – you’ll be astounded at how far our educational standards have fallen.

              The educational system has been deliberately dumbed down.

              If you have young children – get them to do a few questions from Ray’s arithmetic every so often. You’ll note the requirement to use critical thinking in order to solve the problems. It was used in the 1900’s in elementary schools & is still readily available.

     has a booklist of literature – many of these texts are free online. Again your kid will get the opportunity to flex that critical thinking muscle that’s deleiberately undeveloped by the modern educational system.

            • I believe both Bill Gates and Steve Jobs were college dropouts.

      7. I am glad I have none of those problems. I never graduated college and I am proud of it. Its a scam.

        • The banksters MUST keep these loans performing, even if minimally. Obama is just making that easier on the victims so the banks do not have to start discharging them as they are required to do 180 days after default.

          As long as the sheep are paying, they will be easy to track down and force into government service.

          If you have a student loan, you have an obligation to default on it to help destroy the system so that those who follow are not conned like you.

          It’s all about stopping the bank scams. If that doesn’t happen, no amount of education or debt will ever help.

          • I am one of those in default…….ITT-Tech was a joke!!!

            • BJ: I was thinking just the other day that WE hadn’t heard from you for awhile. How’s the new job working out?

            • ITT Tech?

              You poor barstool.

              Anyone remember a really hilarious claymation cartoon called “The PJ’s”? Endless references to DeVry, I think it was an attempt to warn minorities away from that scam-school.

              Colleges are for profit in the US, these “trade schools” are for extreme profit.

              I hope you can work something out with ’em.

      8. These people who have hijacked our constitutional republic are the f^cking mofia. You know in the state of Mass.(and I think vermont to, not sure) you can by and sell TAX CREDITS???? What a farce the whole damn system is. OFF WITH THEIR HEADS!

      9. It’s always about money. I’ve worked with M.D.’s for many years and with most of them it was about money, not helping people.
        I went to seminary to study for the Ministry and with most of my fellow students it was all about the money and a big following, not The Good News.
        I sold medical supplies for years and the surest way to make a sale was to tell the Hospitals all the money that they could make by buying my products.

        There is nothing bad about making money, as long as you are up front about it. “What does it benefit a man if he gains the whole world, but loses his soul”?

        • Croesus is still remembered, despite the fact that he lost all of his money to a Persian entrepreneur named Cyrus.

          Crassus is still remembered, despite the fact that he ended up at a Parthian skewer.

          Even if today’s civ falls down, people will remember Rothschilds, Rockefellers, and maybe Bill Gates, even if they won’t understand how these made money (‘Bill Gates used to sell windows for a very high price back then’).

          Even if he loses his soul, he will be remembered 10,000 years from now, while hardly anyone will remember any of us 100 years from today.

        • Auntie Commie, I kind of get the feeling you’re totally missing the point. It’s not about the making money aspect. It’s about, the what they are doing does not work yet they still push it, aspect.

          I hope you checked out the links I posted.

          Also, maybe do a search on terms like slow kill and big pharma?

          It could be that while *you* were up front about it, the servicer was not?

          • @Clark, opinions are like assholes, everybody has one and they usually stink.
            You are alive because someone went to school to learn how to treat you for something, or developed a drug to help keep you alive. Look at the death rate before this age of modern medicine, then tell us all of your paranoid delusions about “Big Pharma”.
            When was the last time you worked for free? Because many in the medical system donate time and efforts often to help the poor and needy.
            Do me a favor, next time your kid gets sick, don’t take them to one of those evil college grads, just “wish them” to get well and see how that works out O.K.?

      10. Sorry, but I have to push the “College Conspiracy” again. If you are going to college or thinking about going to college, you need to watch it. If you know someone who is thinking about going to college, I would suggest you have them watch it also.

      11. I’m pretty sure most colleges allow you to purchase a sealed copy of your transcript. If you’re going to default on your student loans, you can buy several sealed copies beforehand. Hand them out as needed but make sure you don’t break the seal. Mine was just a big envelope seal. I still have a spare copy that I bought back in 1994.

      12. No real debt can be incurred based on the lending of credit. Any student loan can be voided for fraud.

        Here’s a hint…If the system can not support you and allow you to pay off those “debts”, leave the system and it’s debt in favor of freedom.

        These defaults and the harassment the victims suffer will awaken millions of young people to the fight. They will have no other choice.

        That is a good thing…

        • GC: So, a student agreed via written loan contract to pay after he/she received an education, and now that the education is received, you are saying they’re free to change the terms of agreement or just walk away? Obligation? Accountability? Morals? Many of these “victims” believe they are being “harassed” because they’re being asked to pay per the terms and conditions of the contract they agreed to.

          • I would like to know your age jpl. I’m 23 and I was raised by my mother telling me I had to do good in school so I could go to college. I had to get a good degree and a nice job because she didn’t until she was 40 and struggled the whole time. I was discouraged from attending vo-tech because my mom was pushing the college track. Yes, at age 18 we are “adults,” and legally are responsible for ourselves and actions, but that whole time was spent being dependent on our parents and being told that the “american dream”/correct path lay in achieving a college degree.

            In retrospect I am sad that I never managed to become responsible until after I was deceived into going to college..

            • Greltam: I would agree that the “college degree” has been oversold by both family and educational recruiters – and mostly for the sake of generating the loans. When I went to college (1980), I lived at home, worked, and fortunately had a local university to commute to. Never went into debt on it. I was from a working class family. I earned a mechanical engineering degree. In the area I live, this degree resulted in a decent living. Knowledge-base degrees MIGHT be worth going into a LITTLE debt over (as much as the price of a car), but not for the majority of the liberal arts degrees. Your writing leads me to believe that you’re in deep debt, and the degree you received is not very useful in retiring that debt. Your ability to handle payments based on job prospects can be understood before you ever go into debt – this is how they normally qualify people for loans. No one should go into debt without knowing how they’re going to manage paying it off (if at all). I really feel for all these students who made bad choices, but I do not believe that I, or anybody else, should be held accountable (a la socialist bailout) for these choices.

            • JPL in that time frame, it was actually still possible. IF like you, a student had family who let them live at home while in school, a school that was fairly close, and if they worked summers plus things like being allowed to keep money they made as a minor for a “college fund”.

              In fact, for at least a while there, if a family let the kid keep their earnings from mowing lawns etc from say age 14 on, college was in the bag.

              And the student had to be OK with taking the bus, riding a scooter, or if they had a car, no car payments, it had to be paid for and easy on gas.

              It *was* possible.

          • The bank put up nothing. What part of that should the students have to pay?

            The students are now free to call the fraud what it is, and void the agreement accordingly.

            Somehow, I feel that you are blind to the problem and it would be a waste of my time to try to educate you until you can see the reality rather than the Matrix that has been created for you.

            • What about the agreement was a fraud? Answer that question without hemming and hawing and making up facts, and then maybe I’d agree with you.

        • CG – you nailed it in one!

          So young people have a choice – either join the military for four years (& possibly die in some 3rd world hell hole they couldn’t give a s$%t about) or go someplace and start up in self sufficiency as they are now official coorporate rejects. The self-sufficiency option will not be open to most of them as it’s hard to get that acre of land and a mule on a waitress/walmart wage.

          As they realise the naice coorporate professional door has been slammed in their faces forever after years of hard work they are gonna get increasingly angry. So are their younger siblings.

          If it is true that it’s one in four ex-students in default then that is a LOT of smart, young adults feeling angry and betrayed by their country!!!!! Most of these kids will have orked hard to please their “betters” all their lives to get those now unrecognised degrees. They’ve only done as they were told since infancy.

          A disaffected body of youth is NEVER a good thing in ANY society. This increases the risk of some pretty serious civil unrest at some point as these youngsters start to look more closely at what other lies they have been spun.

          If you can’t earn a living honestly but you have some chemistry skills, or engineering skills and you hate your government, what might you be tempted to do? A large number of these kids are gonna feel they have nothing to lose, and that is frankly dangerous to us all.

          • You are one smart Lady!

          • 200 years ago France had full of young, revolutionary youths who were upset that nothing really changed after the revolution and working hard.

            Napoleon took them to a field trip to Moscow.

          • Lonelonmum….While I feel bad for our younger generation for being duped by the money masters, I hope all of the”disaffected body of youth” begin to raise hell and get in the faces of the govt shysters that cause the financial woes of the world. Us older geezers will have to play backup.Time to try something new.

            • Why the thumbs down? I’m not saying I want swarms of angry young men and women out there with a grudge against the society btw. I’m just trying to follow this thing through to it’s logical conclusion from a prepping perspective.

              Historically as others have pointed out this demographic are the key perpetrators and instigators of major social upheaval. It’s worth paying close attention to their general mood for this reason.

              Here in the UK last summer our youth rioted. My bug out plan worked as it was supposed to without flaw to keep my family safe and happy. Our timing for getting out of the city was just right in that scenario cos I take the time to monitor the “mood” of this demographic. I don’t have to agree with the mob to be ready to adjust my path around it.

              As preppers we are fools not to factor this demographic group into our plans. As parents/grand parents some of us will want to help our own young avoid this trap. Others amongst us will simply want to avoid being trampled under their feet when their anger erupts.

            • lone…If you are replying to me I don’t give anyone a thumbs down.

          • @lonelonmum … “Well Said!” i applaud you.

          • Your seem to be very perceptive. Your apprehension may be realized; I believe that the USA union is destined to break and perhaps sooner than we expect because there are a lot of not happy people around.

      13. If the goal is to compel the borrower to repay the loan, then this policy does not make sense. After I graduated, the only time that I ever needed a transcript was when applying for a different (better paying) job. By withholding the transcript, these morons may make it impossible for a graduate to obtain a quality job that would make it possible to repay the loan.

        If the goal is to be cruel and vindictive, then they are doing a fine job.

        This policy is similar to most official policies that have been implemented by existing bureaucracies in 21st century Amerika.

      14. I’ll be the lone dissenter on this one.

        These students took out a LOAN; that means you sign a contract to pay it back without any excuses. No one forced them to go to college or to borrow money to pay for it. Defaulting on a loan – ANY loan – is theft. The attitude that “I got what I wanted; I don’t have to pay it back; you owe me a “free” education, etc.” is what leads to the kind of country we have now. That is the kind of “gimme stuff and make someone else pay for it” attitude that put Obama in office.

        Are these students who demand a free college education willing to work for free after they graduate with their “free” education? If not, then they are as hypocritical as the most craven politicians in the District of Criminals.

        Have we lost all sense of Right and Wrong in this country? Is there no longer any sense of honor? Is there no sense of shame? Do we now accept “whatever I can get away with” as the standard? It’s no wonder that we are heading straight toward a cliff and have the accelerator to the floor.

        A people without morals are incapable of self-government. We have long since passed that point.

        • McGehee: I am with you on this; pay what you agreed to in the loan. Best not to make a loan at all if possible. Most people I know with these school loans are paying off the big life style they lived – not the tuition and books. Part of the education in a capitalist (non-socialist) society is that you pay to play – no free lunches.

          • jpl_texas says

            “no free lunches.”

            Except of course, for his beloved banksters who can place you in debt by issuing worthless paper.

            Seems a bit more than a free lunch for the banks.

            I guess you think it better to give criminals a free lunch while you encourage the victims to accept a life of slavery than to stop the crime.

        • you remind me of the character Jurgis and his family
          in Upton Sinclairs’s THE JUNGLE
          they believed the propaganda
          they played by the rules
          didn’t work out too well for them

          to paraphrase Darwin
          its not the biggest and strongest who suvive
          its those who recognize that change has happened
          and who adapt quickest to that change

          things have changed boys and girls
          get with the program
          or perish

          • Satori I love that book. The central character is a big, strong, healthy guy. And reading the book, it’s easy to see yourself as him. It shows the process of how, bit by bit, the guy’s broken down and finally becomes what today we’d call homeless, although in his homeless stage having been a country boy growing up in the old country, he has the sense to get away from Chicago and lives in the countryside.

        • The problem with this argument is that they didn’t take out the loan from the college. They went in debt and paid the college every dime owed to them. The college shouldn’t be able to not deliver something that was paid for. It’s like buying a car with a loan from gmac financing. If you default on that loan should gmac be able to tell the dealership they bought the car from that they shouldn’t give them an oil change until their car payments are up to date? The government should go through the same process any creditor has to when a debt is in default.

        • I’d agree – IF this action wasn’t further disadvantaging youngsters from getting the gainful employment in a very depressed economoy to do the right thing and pay back the loan.

          This tells me to keep stashing that junk silver for my own kid’s future. He can live at home – go to the local community joint and pay his fees upfront.

        • McGhee, I agree that a persons word is their bond. You take someones word for what it us worth, then you will get what it is worth, is what I was always told. Take the person from the article that took music at college. Compared to to a science, math and special ed teachers they work out to a six math teachers to one music teacher in our school district. So, to take a program that limits your desirability is foolish. I hear of courses named things like Human Services, General Psychology, Philosophy, Ancient Religions etc and I wonder what these kids are thinking. I personally took Nursing and have never lacked job offers, because before going to school I sat down and looked at market demand. I have two and one half year at a local state college and acquired about 22,000 dollars in debt in the end (at very low interest rates). At the end of ten years, the remainder of my debt will be forgiven for working in a high need area of the country (rural and poor). I knew all this before going to college! I chose an in demand degree, I did not waste my time in a field that would not support my family when I was done. As long as we encourage kids to be unrealistic in their desires regarding education, this will continue on! Peace

        • McGehee, I am sure Tebow will like that statement, although he never paid a penny of his tuition since he got scholarship.

        • You are an idiot.

          A student loan “borrower” signed a contract which has “terms and conditions”.

          These “terms and conditions” happen to have been altered, renegged as it were, post hoc — without consulting the other party to the loan.

          Secondly, all loans have provision for default. It is not “stealing” you jerkoff. It is merely a failed business transaction.

          Or maybe you can predict the future as you are clairvoyant… or in league with Satan… or psychic.


          IT’S BUSINESS.



          • I like your attitude, Spirit of 76.

        • Unfortunately we live in a “free” society — wel-fare, food stamps, SSI, etc., people know how to play the system. I don’t believe all students refuse to pay the loans due on purpose but I’m sure there are some using the system for their benefits that have no intentions of paying, those are the ones to be ashamed of, not the ones who are trying but can’t. A majority of the people in our country are dependent on the gov. for hand outs one way or another, if the system ever fails, we’re in deep sh#t…

        • Theft is only applicable IF there was something stolen and the lender is out of pocket and deprived of the use of the money.. As the lender took zero risk and manufactured the money by selling the promissory note for the cahs to fund the loan, the borrower was indeed stolen from and the bank owes them.
          So YES, there was a theft here, but it was stolen from the borrower, NOT the lender. The promissory note is the borrowers property. If the bank cannot produce that note in it’s original wet ink signature form, there is no loan to repay. The bank did NOT lend any money or take any risk. They defrauded the borrower into lending them their own money.

          Works the same for houses.. If you are in forclosure – ask for the promisory note. If the bank cannot produce the poriginal document that you signed, no loan exists.

          • That’s the most common tactic used to stall a forclosure. I hear most state laws are quite specific in saying that the original documents must accompany any change in ownership of the note. The banksters decided these laws were to much trouble to comply with and created their own system, MERS. That’s why they are often slow to force a forclosure. They will end up losing in court (it has already happened).

            You can bet that on all recent refis “your papers are in order”.

            • It’s called “PRODUCE THE NOTE”

              Remember that phrase.

              PRODUCE THE NOTE!

              Key that into google and you can find the people who can help you with that. If you don’t know that magic phrase, forget about it.

              What helped me remember it is, when I first saw it years ago before it became so secret, I always imagined it in the voice of Rush Limbaugh when he’d say “STOP THE TAPE!”

            • So, if the college loan creditor CAN “produce the note”, then there’s no fraud and the stoont has to pay? Which WILL be the case. There is no MERS here.

              Stone Age logic there is as phony as a three dollar bill. If Stone Age got educated in economics and finance from a college that actually taught that claptrap, then there WAS fraud, and he/she should demand money back.

              MERS was a monumental fraud by the banks, who set it up to avoid the fees that are required to legally record a mortgage with state or local agencies. So I have np problem with them getting theirs for that. The college loan default racket is mostly on the side of the borrowers, not the lenders. And it IS a racket. I’ve actually met a guy who was halfway through his second Masters at U. of Michigan who openly stated that he had no intention of paying back his loans. And he was not drunk or high at the time. It was a business model with him. (BTW he was a Political Science major.)

        • The morals were lacking when the bank monetized the borrowers promissory note by selling it for the cash to lend. FRAUD. there has to be full disclosure in a contract.. The bank held back they were doing this so the note can be voided because the bank is in breach of contract. There wasn’t full disclosure at thebeginning and the bank entered into the contract with full knowledge of this fraud.

        • This entire scenario is just another example of a government created bubble. This is just like the housing debacle. The government says you are “entitled” to an education. Just like you’re “entitled” to home ownership. It’s your right and we’ll help you. So, they tell everyone that all you have to do is go to the bank and you’re on your way to the American dream. The education system in this country is designed to reinforce the expectation that only with the government’s “help” can you achieve the dream.

          I don’t disagree that students should make smart choices if they’re going to take out a loan for their education. But because of the housing bubble and now the student loan bubble they’ve screwed the entire economy.

          I have 2 kids that are college age, I don’t encourage either of them to take out student loans. Plus, did you know that even if you don’t need student loans or if you intend to pay on your own, that the colleges STILL require parents to fill out a FAFSA? That’s right no one now gets to attend college unless the gov has all their parent’s financial info.

          The minute the gov took over ALL student loans, (in the healthcare bill) it became just another way for the gov to control all of us.

      15. must we remind the banksters and the colleges that the very grads they are hurting will eventually be in charge? I get the feeling there are going to be some laws being passed that ban that practice. The kids today are not brainwashed zombie, but rather awake, aware and have far better grip on reality than my generation did.

        • Well, apparently they WON’T be in charge, eh?

          … monetary equivalent of planned Darwinism, you suppose? Those that go into default are never in any danger of even being in charge of stocking grocery store shelves.

        • Oh, judging from the college kids I taught for 3 years, I am pretty sure that a large percentage were brainwashed zombies and have nothing on previous generations. There was a marked distinction between the students who self-identified as readers and those who did not. Non-readers were severly handicapped in their critical thinking and writing.

          That being said, one of the finest liberal educations that you can give yourself is just to read (and re-read)the “great books”…but in many cases this is a far richer proposition when you have a passionate, articulate teacher to bring them to life. Plain Old American hasn’t posted here for a long time, but last I heard from him, he was starting to read Plato’s Republic: not necessarily an easy thing to get through by yourself.

          Here’s a challenge: think of a book you hated in high school, and re-read it….see if it comes to life with the decade/s of experience you have earned since your first reading. I would particularly recommend Jane Eyre, which I re-read every few years, or Moby Dick, which I recently started. Or if you like poetry, read Robert Browning and Tennyson. DANG. Them boys can write.

          • Here’s a good read, Mein Kampf

            • Actually I didn’t like it much and couldn’t finish it.

            • Einstein’s biography was more appealing.

            • @Durango Kidd
              I agree, I to didn’t care much for it either, I read both volumes from cover to cover. If you couple it with what Hitler did and how he pulled it off, it is easy to see the collation with what happened then and what is happening today. What’s going on today is nothing new, its teachings has been pirated and passed off as their own. People like Saul Alinski, Clowered and Piven. These people passed themselves off as great thinkers when actually they were nothing more than common thieves at best. And these people had their hands on our kids. It says; “if you want to change society, start at its youth”. Look at where we are at with the schools and the liberal teachers. Unions, they are part of it too. Organize the tradesmen feed them, care for them for they are the backbone of the state and one day you will ask them to die for the state.
              In order to fight this thing we face we need to first understand and know its face. What we have today is an updated and bastardized version of Mein Kampf. Like it or not!

          • ahhh Emily Bronte of course, Wuthering Heights my favorite. Such a complex story so many layers to it, romantic or dark? A great book that changes perspectives each time you read it.

            • Actually when I re-read Wuthering Heights, I was pretty annoyed by all the whining and melodrama. Granted, there were no mad women locked in the attic, but still. Emily’s Wuthering is beautifully wrought, but is not the masterpiece of Charlotte’s Jane Eyre.

              I guess I just really don’t like whiners, huh.

          • Of course they are brainwashed zombies, they went to public school.

            • Actually, the kids I thought of as the “crown jewels” of my brief academic career were all public school students–ranging from some of the fair-to-middlin schools from out in the country to the best city high schools. They were outstanding thinkers and scholars, and a pleasure to teach. Many public high schools have exceptional honors and arts programs. But more fundamentally, these kids were trained by their own reading and research, and the arguments from around their family dinner tables.

              I had some really good private school students as well…but interestingly enough, the couple of students I had from the “best,” quite expensive private school in the area, non-parochial, were most inclined to slack and cheat. So go figure.

          • I could never get through Mein Kampf, but I’d rather read it than Einstein’s autobiography, at least ‘Kampf is honest.

            It was said a lot during WWII, “We never expected this guy to do what he said he would do”.

      16. It’s not organized crime. It’s tyranny on the part of the government and the educational establishment.

      17. The bubble will burst on student loan debt in a few years time so it will come back and hit the edukation industry and gubmint. Bailouts will follow… Many schools will go bankrupt and basically vanish overnight. Like others have said, grab extra scripts and focus on learning real skills.

      18. Many schools are a racket. When I attended Seminary at (Reformed Seminary in Orlando Florida) We were told by the Dean of the school (Dr.L Whitlock) that they “placed” every grad with a job. 3 years later, out of the 75 men I graduated with, 3 got jobs in the Ministry.

        It’s not just the Truck Driving schools you see on T.V. which dupe their students. I mention names only to warn others.

      19. Have you not read that anyone who pays for their education is a fool?

        • “The education of all children, from the moment that they can get along without a mother’s care, shall be in state institutions.”
          ― Karl Marx

      20. SCM

        You need to awaken to the problem, which is the financial fraud of credit based money.

        No bank has put up anything, thus no bank can lose money on a defaulted student loan. In fact, the money was created based on the signature of the victim on a promissory note. They lent their signature to the bank so the bank could create money to loan them, and they have the nerve to ask you to pay them back with your labor when it is they who owe you the money your signature created.

        These students will be fully educated once they understand the nature of their so called debt and revolt against any such system.

        Your support of the system and attempt to appear noble is ridiculous. It is not about a student victim “getting his for nothing”. It is about the banks “getting his” for nothing, and then making him pay with his labor for decades to pay it back.

        You, and those like you with similar arguments, will never be capable of being free. You believe the system to be legitimate and that belief will always obscure the truth of your victimization by it.

        A free education is not owed to anyone, but an honest financial system is a Right secured in Law.

        Don’t bother trying to help those who wish to be Free of the money changers and their frauds….

        • gods C- I see where you are comming from, and understand your position, we are allies in this struggle. BUT-the people who run a credit card bill up(as an example), and go buy a bunch of physical belongings MUST be held accountable and pay for those belongings, and give back the bills of credit(frn’s) that they AGREED to pay back.This is not a debate about the monetery system(The fed can go to hell, and the banks can go to hell with all these scamed school loans), its about keeping your word and having honorable behavior. If you and I had a verbal agreement, would you want me to honor my side of that agreement? Of course! Look I don’t like the system and I fight my battles(that I can win) against the beast, in my own way, but I/we are also fighting the battle of a decaying culture,nation, and morals. My word is as good as gold, I DON’T EVER BREAK IT.

          • This is the purpose of the bankruptcy laws.A default is merely a business decision. When a corp defaults,it is a business decision as is personal bankruptcy.The whole problem here with the student loans is the fed corp involvement.When they began to guarantee these loans the banks had no skin in the game any more.They would not have given out most of these loans as is without determining their risk first or the chances of recouping the loan.With the fed backup they have no risk.They now give them out to any one that can fog a mirror. Plus, the Universities know this is a guaranteed cash cow on the taxpayer dime so they raise tuition and prof salaries.When the fed corp does not allow bankruptcy on the loans they have effectively created a slave out of these students.

          • Kevin, Spot on!

          • Kevin,

            It IS about the monetary system. Aside from the obvious fraud, it alone enables the moral decay of society.

            You can not have a moral and honorable society without an honest system of money.

            My word to another Man is as good as gold and I NEVER break it. However, when dealing with a fiction engaged in fraud, I see no problem in recovering damages the system has caused and draining its ill gotten resources to hasten it’s demise.

            Only AFTER the current financial system with it’s inherent fraud has been destroyed can you expect to see the morality of the People return. When the system and the money is honest, the participants will be as well.

            We are now seeing what happens when a fraudulent monetary system and government are forced upon a good a decent People.

            If you want morality to return to the united States, you must join the fight against the monetary fraud.

        • my comment to you below on this page – GC

      21. It all goes back to the fraudulent monetary system instituted in 1913 when the banks lobbied Congress for and got the Federal Reserve Act passed, and then Woodrow Wilson foolishly signed it. This allowed the banks to create money out of thin air, and loan it to people, businesses, and governments at interest, effectively making us all indentured servants of the banks. Today there are no gold or silver coins circulating as money; Roosevelt confiscated gold coins from the public during the depression of the 1930’s and Nixon finished the job in 1964 by taking silver coins out of circulation. The money supply today (M2), today is mostly Federal Reserve Notes (dollar bills), checking account balances and savings account balances; these are all bank credit. In 1932 the M2 money supply was $50 billion, and today it is $9,755 billion. The increase came about by Commercial banks creating checking account balances out of thin air and loaning them to you and your government at interest.

        That is one big scam which not only fleeces the public through interest payments to banks, but it causes the boom/bust cycle as first the new money flows into the economy stimulating boom, but as the debt levels grow the repayments to banks drag down the economy causing the bust phase. And this system has destroyed the purchasing power of this money as more and more of it has been issued; when the supply goes up the value is diminished.

        The US Constitution provided for Congress to COIN money and prohibited the States from allowing anything but gold and silver COINS to be legal tender. The Constitution did not authorize Congress to charter banks.

        Thomas Jefferson warned us about allowing banks to control the issuance of money,

        “If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their currency, first by inflation, then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around them will deprive the people of all property until their children wake up homeless on the continent their Fathers conquered…I believe that banking institutions are more dangerous to our liberties than standing armies…”

        And what Thomas Jefferson warned about has come to pass.

        The only person in political life talking about ending this fraud is Ron Paul, our modern day Jefferson; all the rest of the politicians are in the pockets of the bankers and do nothing to follow the Constitution.

        We will continue being swindled by our government and the bankers who pull their strings until such time as the pain from this system of plunder and control becomes so great that we have nothing left to lose and finally revolt.

        • It was Nixon that closed the gold window in the early 70’s. He wasn’t president in 1964. It was during LBJ that coins lost their intrinsic value. i.e. no more silver.

      22. I lost what I was trying to send, so here goes again, I am not sure if this would work, but there should be some records throught the freedom of information act. You can go and get information of yourself, and you would think that there would be records of your graduation from an accredited university or any school as a matter of fact. Someone is not suppose to be able to hold your records hostage for any reason. There should be public record of a person’s graduation and maybe even all the classes they have taken.

        Law enforcement looks into your records all the time. I would think that public record would be all that an employer would need to prove that you have graduatated and or attended the school you say you have. There is always a backdoor apporoach to any coercion tactics that these strongarm bastards try to intimidate a person just trying to better their life.

      23. All is going according to plan.

        The government created this problem by allowing the illegal aliens to take all the farm and construction jobs. ( in actuality they forced it with things like NAFTA and subsidies )
        They ship all the manufacturing jobs overseas with OSHA and the EPA.
        Then they reprogram our children in public education that they have to go to colledge and get a white collar job or they will be a second class citizen living in a trailer with bad teeth, married to thier first cousin.

        • You say that as though it’s a BAD thing.

        • USMC you nailed it.

      24. It’s all such crap. I worked my ass off for college full time and two part time jobs and student loans. I HAD to have that piece of paper (diploma) to get a job but everything I know I learned ON the job. You have to spend ten’s of thousands to learn nothing you’ll need just to get a job where you learn what you need to know.

        • +10,000 exactly the same in my case Mike.

        • OJT has always meant more for productivity than a piece of paper that says you’re smart. I can read about shooting guns or playing musical instruments all day but until I actually DO one of those activities, I know nothing.

        • That’s what’s a bitch… no matter where you go to college, the company you work for trains you their way. Yet without the college degree, they may not hire you. Go figure…

          To me, I would rather hire some rookie [educated of course but not necessary college] to train MY way without worrying whether or not the person is worrying about what they were taught at college. Usually one can tell if a person is qualified just by asking questions and feeling them out. Depending on the type of company that it is, after a lengthy conversation you would know if they’re worth hiring or not. Personalities can’t be taught in school, that’s a personal trait that stays with a person and can be very valuable in certain areas. Now construction is a different story but still, one can be trained to do the job if they’re willing and able.

      25. It seems, with the aid of modern technology, that a person could manufacture whatever college transcript they want with just a computer and a cheap printer. (add a bit of photoshop skills for a nice border on your new ‘diploma’ and other official-looking documents). Then, if the college withholds the actual transcript, that’s a good thing. It means your prospective employer can’t see it. Be sure and give yourself at least a 4.0 gpa while you’re at it. Seriously, if it’s good enough for a presidents birth certificate, it should be good enough for a college transcript.
        Now, all you debt-ridden grads, get out there and get to work! Good luck as the new CEO of MegaCorp. And don’t worry about a thing. If you totally screw up the company, there’s always the bailout option. Ain’t life great?

        • Hey,if you need help manufacturing transcripts, I’m sure the Prez. could give you some pointers, just saying……

      26. When I initially went to college it was because:
        1. I wasn’t interested in going to war
        2. I wanted to have fun and not deal with the real world
        3. My dad paid for it.

        SInce then, I’ve learned many things, especially how gracious my father was for spending his hard earned money on someone who took advantage of the free ride. I left college after 2 and a half years without a degree. Ended up dealing with the real world and eventually went back and finished “that” school. Didn’t really matter, though. Just went for the purpose of completing the project. Would I go back again? Probably not. In fact, if I had to do over, I’d probably have opted out and left high school and learned about life “in the field”. I think most of the “structured programming” in the school system is a waste of most peoples lives, in fact, I think it is detrimental in the long run. At least what is taught in most of the school systems of America.

        Now, the whole thing is a joke. Why go to college? At this point, 75% of the degrees are a waste of time. Yes, there are specialized degrees that are invaluable, but those are few and far between.

        Don’t waste your money.

        Getting a degree, and all that that implies, for the majority. is meaningless and, possibly even dangerous (in more ways than one). If one’s going to get a loan, one should do it to purchase those tangible, sustainable assets that supports ones life, like a small home and the various provisions needed to navigate through the up coming storm. OR, if one insists one has to get a loan for school, then take the money and travel the world for a few years. Get a degree in REALITY. That will really put things in perspective. Especially when one has to come home and pay off the debt.

        • Amerikan pubic skools prepare kids for nothing more than more skool (and do a piss poor job of that).

      27. this is where we are at

        and the student loan debacle isn’t an accident

        “All the old forms will still be there: legislatures, elections, campaigns plenty of bread and circuses. But consent of the governed will no longer apply; actual control of the state will have passed to a small and privileged group who rule for the benefit of their wealthy peers and corporate patrons.

        the operative phrase
        “actual control of the state will have passed to a small and privileged group who rule for the benefit of their wealthy peers and corporate patrons. ”

        the system will be for the benefit of who ?????

        keep believing in the system
        keep playing by the rules
        see where you end up

        sometimes the only way to win the game is
        NOT TO PLAY IT

        • ^^^^THIS…by not allowing bankruptcy to be filed on student loan debt the fed corp has created a fresh new class of debt serfs to suck dry. NO ACCIDENT.

          • Serfs don’t sign up to be serfs. These fools who took out all these loans DID.

      28. now i disagree with this if you take out a loan you have to pay it back the college has no other recourse other than to take you into court and i would rather they kept my transcripts than be taken to court.

        • wally wrote, ‘you have to pay it back the college”

          wally, you’re not getting it, not one bit.
          The College Has Already Been Paid In Full.

          You’re arguing for the the-powers-that-shouldn’t-be.

          Please see the link to, ‘Letter to Bank of America’ above, it’s really the same dang thing.

      29. I study pay as I go with the open university, if I can’t pay that year I take a year off. It will have taken me nine years to get my degree, but it also allowed me to work my way through without debt.

        Not a solution for everyone but as a degree doesn’t mean you will get a job what’s the hurry?

        Take care

      30. Wow, it just amazes me that people can excuse the fraud on the part of these students by pointing to the fraud of the financial system. Of course the banking system is corrupt. Of course it’s a fraud. Does defrauding a fraudulent system make it right? How twisted is that!

        If you default on a car loan, the car is repossessed (it is NOT your car until it is paid for in full). If you default on a home loan, the home is foreclosed (it is NOT your home until it is paid for in full). Because a college education is an intangible item and not providing transcripts is about the only recourse available, you are saying that it’s unfair to the defaulters?

        Can any of you who are supporting this theft by the student loan defaulters give me ONE good argument as to why this is the right thing to do, why it is anything but the promotion of the socialist “gimme something for nothing” mentality?

        I expect to see this kind of thinking on Democratic Underground, HuffPo, and other bastions of the far Left. Seeing this mentality among those who are aware of what is happening to America is disheartening, to say the least. If we don’t hold “the People” to high standards of Right and Wrong, what makes you think that the politicians will be any better? That’s juvenile thinking, to put it kindly. It’s no wonder America is racing to the bottom.


          why are you calling this fraud?
          it does not even come close to meeting that definition

          and calling it theft?

          if they borrowed money with the INTENTION of never paying it back
          then your argument might hold some water

          these students borrowed money for an education
          can’t find jobs
          (because of the financial meltdown caused DELIBERATELY by Wall Street ,the banksters in collusion with a corrupt government)
          and therefore having no income
          CANT pay back the money

          if some middle class schmuck
          who has worked all his life
          and always paid his bills
          gets sick
          and can no longer work
          he then loses his home
          no job means no health insurance
          so he cant pay his hospital bills
          does that make him guilty of theft or fraud also ????

          you REALLY need to read THE JUNGLE
          we are back in the Gilded Age
          the rules aren’t fair
          there is no level playing field
          one team is ALWAYS going to lose
          because THEY PLAY BY THE ‘RULES’
          and that team is US

          • If the bank lent money they never had to begin with it fits the first definition of fraud perfectly.

          • Well, as I’ve already posted, I’ve met at least ONE turkey at a prestigious Midwest school who DID borrow the money with no intention of paying it back, and said so to my face. Interestingly, his major was “Political Science”. In hindsight, I’d love to know what has become of him. Probably working behind the scenes sponsoring Occupy rallies? Being paid a stipend by George Soros?

        • The purpose of pointing out the fraud of fractional reserve banking is not to excuse those who borrow and don’t repay. The point is that without a debt based monetary system, borrowing would be very rare, and people would be more able to afford houses, cars, and education without the burden of the huge plunder by those who operate this monetary scam.

          Slaves always have trouble affording everything.

          I also point out that in a just legal system, when a fraud is perpetrated on someone, the victim is often excused of any obligation he has that arose out of the fraud.

        • Steven,

          I agree with your position. A loan is just that.

          Many years ago, I tried to go to college, after using my GI Bill in a trade school. I got a student loan, and went for it, but things did’nt work out. Afterwards, I was tuck w/ a loan that I could repay for several years, but eventually paid it off.

          (By the way, the real rip-off scam, is the text-book issue. Your average text-book will run over $50, some as high as $100+. Resale value, if they buy them back, is usually about 10-15% of the price new. Which they then resell, used for half the price of a new text book.)

          The issue is really not the monetary system, but if there are no jobs for these people, how will they be able to repay thier loans?

        • These students can’t actually default on the loan.
          They are in arrears and a student loan doesn’t disappear until it is paid (or death).
          If they can’t get a job without the transcript how will they earn enough to repay the loan.
          These students can whine for free college education and debt forgiveness all they like – they signed up and they have to pay up, but impeding their ability to find employment is short-sighted.
          My kids who are 4 years off from finishing high school – are watching this and we will be making informed decisions about college and student debt.

        • It always irritates me to hear of people attacking the repo man. If you were paying for it, he wouldn’t be trying to take “your truck”.

        • Stephen Clay McGehee, consider the link to, ‘Letter to Bank of America’ above, it’s really the same dang thing.

          Unless you like the banker overlords who are trying to control the world? In which case your comment makes total sense.

        • You are missing the point here.. It’s the financial system that is in the wrong. If these students had full disclosure for their loans, they probably wouldn’t have taken them.. Did you know that the same fraud applies tohome loans and car loans? Ask your bank to see the ORIGINAL promissory note. They can’t produce it. If they cannot produce it, there is no loan.

          • In the case of these college loans the ORIGINAL note will be presented easily. There is no MERS in the college loan business.

        • I was older when I went to college for my degree. I remember sitting in financial aid, and saying to the girl “Where are the papers for credit check you will do on me for my loans?” She informed me that there is no credit check. After standing in line with mostly kids and talking to many of them and their parents that day. I came right out and told the girl in Financial Aid they were going to get screwed in the long run. She told me at that time (2003) a college drop out has about a 70% default rate in my state of New York! I remember thinking how unsustainable that was.

        • SCM says

          “””If we don’t hold “the People” to high standards of Right and Wrong, what makes you think that the politicians will be any better? That’s juvenile thinking, to put it kindly. “””

          The problem is the fictions, not the People. I suppose you think it is up to the fictions (govecorp) to enforce “high standards of right and wrong” on the People?

          The People have been forced to act in the manner they do (as unwitting fictions) BECAUSE of the fictions, who know no right or wrong. The fictions act the way they do because no Man can be held accountable for what they do.

          The apparent loss of morality happens when the People realize the fictions are acting in a fraud and they must defend themselves from a fraud they can not escape from. In many cases, they join the fraud for survival.

          Your comment goes far beyond juvenile thinking, into the realm of totally backwards thinking.

          Here is your reason…

          The banks claim ownership of everything and every Man on planet earth. They have hijacked the governments of the world through the “legalized” counterfeiting and allow the People to gain equity interest in THEIR property, but only when you use their funny money to buy the interest.

          If someone comes into your home and steals everything you own, then decides he will let you keep your stuff if you sign a promissory note to pay for it, do you owe this thief anything because you signed the note? Does this thief gain a right to tell you how to use the property, or take it away at whim with no recourse for you?

          Your suggestion is to quietly pay the thief and hope he never asks for the property back. It would be better to disregard the promissory note and “agreement” you had with the thief, and keep a gun handy for if he ever came back.

          Just like the banks, the thief in your home started with nothing, and ended up with nothing. The only thing left over is your promissory note, and he holds it.

          Our situation is not much different.

          You need to do more studying of the banking system. You should also look back at the progression of the moral decay and see if the fraudulent financial system came before the decay, or if the decay lead to the fraudulent system.

          Once you understand the system, and that it is IN FACT, the root of the decay that troubles you, the solution will become obvious.

          The corrupt financial system MUST BE DESTROYED, and the best way to do that is to refuse to pay into it. The promissory notes it holds are as worthless as that of the thief mentioned earlier, unless you decide to pay it because it is easier than not paying it.

          If there is a Moral issue, it is whether or not one should participate in such a system once they obtain the factual knowledge to understand what it is.

          If you understand how this system is set up to be a perpetual theft machine from the masses, in violation of Gods Law, yet still participate and support it, you have no moral high ground to speak from.

          It really depends on who you choose to serve. You have chosen to serve the system. Good luck with that. America is not racing to the bottom. The government is, being lead and powered by the banks.

          The People will come together under Gods Law, but we can not do so until the fraudulent financial system is collapsed and replaced.

          Any Man has an obligation to join the fight against enemies of their fellow Man. Therefore, you have a Lawful obligation to do whatever you can to end the system so that it can no longer plunder the other men of your state.

          You can be for God and the People, or for the corp and it’s banksters. You can not straddle that line. Your task is to choose a side, and so far your choice is poor.

      31. You can bet Obama and Geithner are going to be in this neck deep. All Obama has to do is just give a passive indication that he will be persuasive in forgiving these student loans and BINGO! More supporting student votes. But after the election, (assuming he gets reelected) here comes the real plan he meant. And they are going to get suckered again.

      32. I couldn’t believe the flack I got for suggesting countries could barter and trade the same way individuals do at a garage sale. A college grad said it was not going to work, etc… a Person had to be specialized to understand such things.

        Well, lo and behold:

        “Uruguay mulls offering Iran rice for oil … The article also pointed out that Uruguayan President Jose Mujica “unveiled plans for the proposed barter at the same time as leaders of the BRICS countries − Brazil, China, India, Russia and South Africa − met in New Delhi to agree on ways of trading in their own currencies without recourse to the dollar.”… ”

        • Clark: I read the original article at that link the other day. Sure, countries can barter between themselves as government entities, but those are isolated individual trades between nations.

          Globally, international commerce is composed of many millions of trades between millions of entities every day.

          Logistics will not support international bartering for millions of transactions of various commodities every day between millions of distinct entities; that’s why money is a medium of exchange as well as a store of value and why there are clearing houses that facilitate those transactions.

          Do you really want to send someone ten thousand widgets you produced in your manufacturing plants where you have already paid for the raw materials, cost of production and labor with just a chance of being paid?

          Didn’t think so.

          Money will have to be used. These nations will also have to establish an institution that facilitates these trades through a prescribed mechanism, so yes, a “Person” would need to be “specialized” to understand such things.

          I suspect that creating a “SWIFT” institution is not an overnight operation. Stick to garage sales Clark.

          You do not grasp the complexities of global economics, or the reality of FREE TRADE. Its not free and people like yourself are paying the price for it.

          • The idea of a world without any type of “money” is foolish. barter only works when the other guy has something you want. Over time, the rest of the world can find ways around using American dollars in many cases.

            • Clark: You said “And a folding shovel is good for a winter pack because it’s good for breaking ice on a lake?”

              I never said that. You did. 🙂

              I am smarter than that because I grew up on Lake Michigan. It’s a big lake and 600 feet deep but ice still forms every winter along the shore, as it is a fresh water lake.

              The extent of the ice and the length of its duration depends upon the severity of the winter. I have seen enough dead bodies in the water of both people and pets who foolishly spent their lives cavorting along the edges of the ice, that I know that one doesn’t take that kind of risk unless you are in the Arctic and the lake is frozen solid.

              Still it is not something I would pursue if I were prospecting or hunting in Alaska, except at the waters edge.

              Have you ever seen or handled a body that has been in the water for any period of time? The flesh has a consistancy of milk toast and easily peels from the body.

              But to answer your question directly, no I wouldn’t use a folding shovel to break open a hole in the ice. I would use my rock pick or hand ax.

              I would use the folding shovel/entrenching tool to dig a hole in the ground and use the hole as a windbreak; or I would use it to dig deep enough so I could bury hot rocks from my fire to warm the space and sleep on after adding about six inches of dirt over them.

              Clark, I doubt that you have ever spent anytime in the wilderness. I suspect that the closest you may have gotten is a YMCA Camp for boys for two weeks during the summer.

              Experience, like education, goes along way. Get some.

          • Ha! Yet another series of memes of the Power Elite, *only* the technocrats can understand things, *only* merchanitilism has a solution, *only* those with a degree are qualified. Psft, as if.
            You sure do push the memes of the Power Elite, endlessly, and I do mean, endlessly.

            “but those are isolated individual trades between nations.” WHAt kind of backtracking BS is that? Psft.

            “Globally, international commerce is composed of many millions of trades between millions of entities every day.” <- You finally got that part right, and you should focus on it very hard because you Often ignore it when you write, this is the essence of free trade, which is something your military boot does not wish to acknowledge.

            "Logistics will not support international bartering for millions of transactions of various commodities every day between millions of distinct entities" WHAt kind of meaningless garbage is that?

            "there are clearing houses that facilitate those transactions." As if individuals and businesses cannot do for themselves? Yeesh, have you ever heard of Real Bills? There's a tremendous history of such occurring All Without Goberment Interference for the most part.

            "Do you really want to send someone ten thousand widgets you produced in your manufacturing plants where you have already paid for the raw materials, cost of production and labor with just a chance of being paid?"

            That happens Every Single Day Right Now! Duh.

            Your Power Elite push (knowingly or not) is also a part of the illegal immigrant slant you have, It's All Keynesian ( surprise, surprise, you're just like The Ben Bernake yet again) read this one and open your dang eyes:

            Illegal Aliens and Unemployment: Causes and Effects

            by Gary North


            Lots of college graduates and those considering college should read that link too.

            Psft, apparently People in Uruguay are not going to trade rice to the People in Iran for oil because Durango Kidd says it's too complex?

            Ok, that's it, I'm done responding to you, either you get it now, or the banker and warmonger in you is too ingrained for you to ever see the light of truth.

            War is Peace?
            Freedom is slavery?
            Ignorance is strength?

            … And a folding shovel is good for a winter pack because it's good for breaking ice on a lake?

            I c.

            • Clark: Your staggering ignorance of financial reality, trade, and economics is sooooooo unbelievable, its downright funny! 🙂

              Free Trade doesn’t exist Clark. It never has except for the American Indian and WE know where that led don’t WE?

              The American Indian even allowed white Europeans to establish “Free Trade Zones” on their land and populate these zones with other white people to facilitate “Free Trade”.

              How did “FREE TRADE” work out for the American Indian, Clark? 🙂

              The many millions of transactions that permeate global commerce between many millions of entities is governed by NAFTA, GATT, and the WTO.

              This is not the philosophical novelty between two people at a garage sale negotiating over old books or a picture frame; it is managed trade.

              It is a system of trade codified by Treaty, where the transactions of which you speak are governed by Rules and Regulations. This is not “Free Trade” (or garage sale economics for that matter) by any stretch of the imagination.

              It is managed trade and that trade is managed by the GB’s for the benefit of themselves and the Uber Rich.

              Lew Rockwell supports this managed trade and labels it FREE TRADE to sell US this propaganda as if it were a FREEDOM. It is not. It is the system that has destroyed the middle classes of Europe and America.

              Lew Rockwell gets his funding for the Mises Institute from the PTB and Uber Rich to spread the “gospel” of FREE TRADE” to US so that they can continue to pillage the middle classes.

              It is pure propaganda to benefit the Uber Rich. It is designed to sell Americans their financial serfdom and accept this servitude as a FREEDOM.

              Very clever of them but the elite are not fools.

              Lew Rockwell is a fraud and you are a fool if you believe him. Tell him I said so. 🙂

            • Clark: Illegal Immigration is first, a Sovereignty issue. The economic effects are secondary, but real.

              It is the plan of the NWO elites, to over run America with illegal latinos, make them “new Americans” by amnesty, give them the power to vote as citizens, and then after the demographics in America are changed, hold a “referendum” to join Mexico in the North American Union.

              The US Constitution will be dissolved and America will disappear, along with the Bill of Rights.

              Your right to barter will disappear or they will impose a “barter trade” financial tax for the trade.

              The NAU will be subservient to the United Nations as a prelude to One World Government.

              Your lack of perception and naivate will be your enslavement. The job YOU qualify for will be filled by another 30 million latinos swarming across the border.

              Only individuals (like me) who own the means of production will prosper. Workers will become slaves. No unions, no health care, no vacation time, no holidays, and no raises.

              Welcome to the New World Order! 🙂

      33. A rough day on the high seas of government…

        The good ship Amerika is foundering. She’s fighting gale force winds and the engine room is flooded by an iceberg induced gash in the hull. Half the crew has mutinied and jumped ship. Most of the rest are below decks, fighting the lingering effects of food poisoning, beri-beri and scurvy. (that, or they refuse to leave their video games long enough to man their posts) Still, Cap’n Obama presses on.
        1st mate: “Cap’n, the engines are shot. We’re dead in the water and the waves are about to swamp us! What’ll we do?”
        Obama: “Hoist the mains’ll. Top the riggins! Lower the gangplank! And somebody get me a new parrot.”
        1st mate: “But Cap’n, we have no sails to hoist. We’re nuclear powered and the reactor is going critical! You’ve got to do something to save us!”
        Foreward Lookout: “Another iceberg ahead! 800 meters off the port bow! And closing fast! Sound iceberg alarm!”
        Aft Lookout: “There’s a 500 foot tsunami off our stern and it’s heading right for us! Sound tsunami alarm!”
        Crows nest Lookout: “There’s a huge meteor falling from the sky! It’s gonna land right on top of us! Sound meteor alarm!”
        Chief cook: “Holy crap! We’re out of coffee! Sound caffein alarm!”
        1st mate: “Cap’n! You’ve got to do something!”
        Obama: “All power to forward shields. Ahead warp five! Get me another dilithium crystal!”
        1st mate: “Cap’n. Have you gone mad?! We’re a nuclear powered aircraft carrier, not a damned space ship!”
        Obama: “Doesn’t matter. If we all just hold hands and chant together, we’ll get through this. Trust me, I’ve organized communities that were tougher than this. Now…everybody repeat after me- ‘Yes we can, yes we can’…”

        • U-crazzzy

        • LMAO…. thanks for that.

        • Hey SmokinOkie…are you going to be in Ok this weekend ?
          I’m heading up to Broken Arrow to visit my folks over the weekend. Going to leave Houston Thursday afternoon & head back on Sunday afternoon. Would like to meet you for a cup of coffee along the way if you are going to be in the neighborhood. Y’all travel safe this weekend.
          Montgomery County Texas

      34. Maybe I shouldn’t feel this way, but I do.

        When it was time for me to go to college, we didn’t have the money so I didn’t go.

        When my children were ready for college, I worked and every dime I made paid went for them to go to college. They have college degrees and own nothing for it.

        Times have changed with no jobs or way to pay back. Don’t people think ahead of time that this could happen? The what “IF” was always stuck in my mind. They take a chance and don’t think what “IF”.

        For tax payers to pay their loans off because they couldn’t pay as they go, is wrong. They have a degree in hand but its not our bill to pay for their education.

      35. GC: Will we have a monetary system or not? Money is very useful – it’s a storage device, storing value. I use it to trade with others; they have a product or service I want and i give them money (a value holder). I can trade immediately and not have to barter or go paint somebody’s house or milk their cow. So, when my “need” is greater than my cash on hand, I apply to obtain credit to capitalize a long term commitment – like getting an education. So, I get value (an education) and the educator gets money (a value holder – that he can go pay bills or get value with elsewhere) – the bank gave me this money for my signature – and by my signature, I agree to replace the money (with a little extra). If the credited person ever decides to default on their commitment (replacing the money), they should give value back or be prohibited from using the value they received – repossess the car, take back the house, prohibit entry, take your diploma, etc. If you don’t give, you don’t get. What do banks put up? They put up risk – they risk their balance sheet against the credit they extended to applicants – if the applicants default, the bank cannot pay back their creditors (bank members, investors, and/or higher level banks) – bank managers don’t just go in the back and print out money. If the bank manager can’t manage a positive balance sheet, the bank closes. This idea that it’s okay to default on your obligation to repay because it’s a victimizing, fraudulent, ignoble, contemptible system, is immoral – it teaches people that it’s acceptable to stiff others to free yourself of your obligation – and I’m seeing this kind of ethic becoming prevalent not only in financial relationships, but also in personal, familial relationships. Treat others like you want to be treated.

        • JPL,

          “””What do banks put up? They put up risk – they risk their balance sheet against the credit they extended to applicants – if the applicants default, the bank cannot pay back their creditors (bank members, investors, and/or higher level banks) – bank managers don’t just go in the back and print out money. “””

          Are you serious, or just clueless?

          The banks put up risk? That is probably the dumbest thing I have ever heard in support of the banks (YOUR owners).

          Bank managers don’t go to the back room and print the money. They go to the back room and print CHECKS, negotiable instruments in commerce, based on the Promissory Note you sign.

          If you borrow 1 million “dollars” from a bank, the bank will have you sign a Promissory Note to CREATE THE MONEY. It takes that Note, and creates another Note (the check) to give to you, which is “payable” in more notes.

          The PN becomes a NO COST “asset” for the bank with a value of 1 million FRNs for accounting purposes. The bank “accepts” your signature and issues you an offsetting credit in your account when you deposit it.

          You gave the bank authorization to create a million dollars using your signature. It then takes the million dollars you authorized it to create and issues your account credits against it.

          There is no money involved, nothing of substance.

          When a victim defaults on a loan of credit, the “laws” require the bank to discharge it after 180 days of default. Upon that discharge, the account is settled to the extent possible. The bank is left where it started, not out a single nickel. The banks depositors and shareholders, nor their “money”, is put at risk.

          It is likely a waste of time trying to teach you about the monetary system. You believe it is acceptable for a private company to lend credit in usury. Not only is it unacceptable on its face, but it is self evident fraud.

          How many of these students are aware that they were borrowing credit rather than money? How many were, purposefully, never told that the bank was not lending them an asset it already had, but instead was creating the asset based on your signature?

          You are wide asleep my friend, and as such you will be worthless in rebuilding the lawful government established by the Constitution.

          If you signed a 1 MIL Promissory Note for me, and I gave you a check for it, then I created the money from nothing to cash that check, what have I put up? Nothing.

          If I sold the PN for face value, I have made 1 MIL in profit. Plus you will have to pay me back the MIL in additional debt notes, that were also created from nothing more than another poor suckers signature.

          It is no different for a bank. They take your promissory note, issue you a credit against it to keep the books balanced. Then they sell the Note to someone else, who buys it with even more worthless debt paper. At the same time, the bank is waiting for you to “pay” it the credit already recovered from the sale of the Promissory Note.

          When money can be created at no cost and lent out at interest, those who lend that money are engaged in fraud.

          Learn the system and understand it. Your continued support of incomprehensible and unconscionable fraud is what is leading to the decay of society. Not the poor victims who refuse to continue to support it by defaulting on “loans” of “money” that are nothing more than paper available to the fraudsters in unlimited quantity.

          In fact, were it not for that fraud being perpetrated and supported by the likes of you, the cost of college would be affordable to everyone.

          You can continue to be a part of the problem, or you can educate yourself and help the People put a stop to it.

          Somehow, I see you continuing to support the fraud. You would rather call those who see the system for what it is immoral, when the immorality s your support of that system.

          • GC,
            If you don’t have the capital on hand, it’s either submit to a banking system or do without. Every time I didn’t have capital and didn’t want to do without, I committed myself to financing; nobody was tricking me or holding a gun to my head – I knew what I was submitting myself to and what the requirements were. If there was any slavery aspect, it was that I was a slave to my desire to have the house, car, boat, whatever, right now, and that under my own volition, I would pay finance charges to have it and enjoy it now.

            Now, this issue of bank fraud; that it is somehow fraudulent if banks charge for using their money as capital – what is wrong with that – you’re getting value from the use of their money. When a rental company rents a post hole digger enough times to have made $1000 off an item he only paid $100 for, you don’t call him a cheat or say that he is fraudulent. You get value, they get value. On what grounds would I be bringing a bank to court for fraud? Because they’re demanding what I agreed to? No, I would only find grounds for fraud if they were in breach of contract (of what I agreed to).

            And this issue of banks essentially creating money from thin air: Banks managing private accounts do not have authority (constitutionally or otherwise) to create money – they are established to secure assets and make capital available for loans, etc. FRNs are the papers we use to trade value (when we’re not bartering). Value is not traded by signing contracts and making promises, etc., but by moving FRNs from one account to another. If my loan bank, Bank A, transfers money to a seller, Bank B, guess what, Bank A now has a hole in its stack of money (assets), but that’s okay because I told them to put my IOU (promissory note) in that hole. They performed a risk assessment on my ability to repay and have agreed to take my IOU. And Bank A is regulated to only allow a certain aggregate hole size as a percent of total assets on hand – requirements of fractional reserve banking – they are not sitting there indefinitely hitting the print button to issue checks – that is irrational to think they are, to think they are not bound by assets on hand. If Bank A decided that my IOU was of a reliable quality (non-toxic), it may offer to sell it to another bank (or investors) – but under what motive – to fill that hole sooner – so Bank A might take a little loss in interest to regain its asset level sooner, and Bank Z would get to make a little interest, but not as much as Bank A – it’s a diminishing returns practice – there is no continuous replication of the total principal being generated over and over again, and as you keep slicing the interest thinner, it loses investment value. The only bank waiting for my payment is the last bank holding the note (IOU). The only fraud I see routinely perpetrated in this type of system is when the person who agreed to pay does not. And these defaulting idiots ruin their credit, teaching others that they are a high risk to being held accountable or responsible. Then these idiots see the teachings of “other idiots” who tell them that what they did was right and that they were “victimized” by the system – they are the same people you see on Occupy Wall Street expecting something for nothing – real trade artists.

            Now, if you were talking about credit cards and/or public debt that politicians obligate us to – I am with you one hundred percent. The variable/ escalating credit card rates are immoral – once the interest charged is equal to the actual principal charged on the cards, debt accumulation should be stopped, maybe even sooner. And public debt – damn it to hell – it’s equivalent to identity theft and credit card fraud – making charges obligated to me, not approved by me, and of no direct benefit to me. And the ongoing devaluation of the FRNs by dilution (quantitative easing); simply printing more money without having it pegged to a tangible value asset that is growing proportionately (i.e. gold, oil, strategic resources, etc.) – a dangerous monetary policy – will be the death of the FRN.

            Ron Paul 2012 – ballots before the bullets.

            • “””Now, this issue of bank fraud; that it is somehow fraudulent if banks charge for using their money as capital – what is wrong with that – you’re getting value from the use of their money.”””

              The banks have no money, until you understand that you will remain clueless about most everything else.

              “””Banks managing private accounts do not have authority (constitutionally or otherwise) to create money ”

              Again you lack the most basic knowledge required to reach a conclusion. They do, IN FACT, create “money”. Learn more about the process.

              Use your common sense. You can not Lawfully transfer a title to any thing based on commercial paper transactions. The banks, in this scheme, put up no consideration. They have no asset until you give it to them, then they kindly lend it back to you at interest.

              It is all paper. Learn about the system you are trying to defend. Instead, join the fight to stop it in any way we can.

      36. I like how the ads on this page include “walden university” and “university of phoenix”- they are only missing devry university, and then they will have all the top schools in the county!

      37. Unless you’re capable and you want to become a doctor, lawyer, dentist, veterinarian or possibly an engineer (bio, chem, electrical etc) there’s no reason to go to college. I’ll add athlete to that list. Even if you successfully complete your education in some of the fields I mentioned there’s no guarantee of a job or career. My son just graduated from CU Boulder with a BSEE/CS with good grades. He’s $48000 in debt and is still working the same part-time research-type job he worked while going to school. The problem I have with him having so much debt is the quality of education he received for the money he’s spending. Old textbooks, uninspirational uncreative faculty, old curriculum, very little emphasis on developing mentoring internship type opportunities to facilitate permanent placement upon graduation not to mention a shitty football program. Just kidding:-/ Sure you can argue he should’ve transferred when he realized he might be getting less than he expected but that’s a very simplistic view considering transfer credits, time lost, no guarantee next school will be better, financial aid, relocation, proximity to family etc..

      38. Did no one notice that “Pedro”, already in debt of 62k and jobless, decides to go for a PHD, tacking on, what, another 20-50k in the hopes he’ll make more money to pay off the 100k he’ll owe????
        Does anyone do research to find out what fields are the most lucrative? We know that there are more lawyers graduating than there are job openings. I’ve often read people say trade skills are important, especially when the largest labor force in this country is in the food service industry.
        The federal loan for lil bird’s education is 34k, and the bank loaned us 10k. Together it’s about $550 a mo. It’s a loan. I borrowed and I’m responsible for it. She was 17 when she enrolled, too young to sign for herself. I have no problem with the loan. This kid has surpassed all my expectations and I’d do it again. She’s working 2 jobs in her field of culinary arts and loves it. So what if I have to pay on the loan for another few yrs, or 10. So What?!? What parent wouldn’t make their life leaner to give their kid a hand up? She’s proven herself. She’s on her own, in the city, and working at only 20 yrs old.
        We’re hardworking blue collar American no bodies, still in our starter duplex after 33 yrs, who happen to have a kid that broke away from this lower class life to be the best she could be. And she’s well on her way because we’re helping her. So it’s a loan that will take a long time to pay off, so what, my mortgage took 30 yrs to pay off. (It’s not like I really wanted to go to Hawaii or anything, really, who’d wanna go there, it’s not like it’s beautiful or anything. (yes of course I’d like to go to Hawaii, duh!) But lil bird is more important)
        OH— if I die before the fed loan is paid off, it becomes automatically paid off. YEA!!!!!

        • Some degrees are worth the loan your example is one and the same would be true for someone getting a degree in Engineering, a math or science field, accounting, finance, and nursing, medicine, or even dental hygiene but alot of people are getting loans to get degrees in things like history, psychology, art history, ancient religions, or sociology or some other liberal arts deal and they are wasting their time and screwing themselves in the a$$ to say the least.

        • Lil Bit: You guys are worthy of praise !!!! The standard you set is inspirational. I don’t think there is anything you could have bought (boats, cars, houses, trips, etc) that would have given you more satisfaction.

      39. hmm
        educational loans that now take a lifetime to pay off

        I think ‘they” have us right where they want us


        it didn’t used to be this way did it ???

      40. The same held true when I went to school. Not much has changed in the majority of programs out there. I think back to some of the classes I took that bored the hell out of me and required I sit in a classroom for an hour and a half two or more days per week for an entire semester covering the same quantity or less that an hour and a half Discovery Channel show covered. What a waste. With the Internet there’s not much you can’t learn if you’re motivated to do so.

      41. whats going on in the world is bigger than we can imagine
        it’s not just about student loan debt and the financial meltdown


        “Sometimes people don’t want to hear the truth because they don’t want their illusions destroyed.” – Friedrich Nietzsche

        “The American people are mentally ensnared by their decades of indoctrination from propagandists in government and on Wall Street, spoon fed to them by the corporate mainstream media. Many are afflicted with the diseases of normalcy bias and cognitive dissonance. Normalcy bias refers to a mental state people enter when facing a disaster. It causes people to underestimate both the possibility of a disaster occurring and its possible effects. The American people are mentally incapable of accepting the facts of our impending economic collapse. They somehow are able to convince themselves these facts as normal:” part 2

        “They have plundered the world, stripping naked the land in their hunger… they are driven by greed, if their enemy be rich; by ambition, if poor… They ravage, they slaughter, they seize by false pretenses, and all of this they hail as the construction of empire. And when in their wake nothing remains but a desert, they call that peace.” – Tacitus, The Agricola and the Germania

        any of that quote sound familar?
        any of that going on right here and now?? part 3

        these articles are well worth your time to read

        the sooner you realize the magnitude and rapidity of the change
        the more likely you are to survive it


      42. “Did no one notice that “Pedro”, already in debt of 62k and jobless, decides to go for a PHD, tacking on, what, another 20-50k in the hopes he’ll make more money to pay off the 100k he’ll owe????”

        I noticed. You beat me to it pointing that out. I call that not wanting to deal with reality.

      43. I thought this website was populated by mostly conservative minded people. Do you have a problem with capitalism, or was this article meant to be ironic?

        • Mr. Pooby: My thoughts exactly – I’ve read so many articles and posts here where the consensus has been to revolt against the economically ignorant, socialist traitors – but it looks like suddenly there is tolerance (if not desire) for bail-outs and migration of wealth to those who did nothing to merit it.

          • Ah, you guys need to check out the link above, ‘Letter to Bank of America’ and consider the similarities.

            Also, you need to consider “the weight” adults over forty have when giving “advice” to those under twenty.

            People like Pedro are a lot like homebuilders, it’s all they know how to do and they’ve been taught it’s the right thing to do and the Only way out of the mess they are in. Unlike you.

            Consider also, what would you do if you didn’t have the upbringing you had? Would you do just like them too? Perhaps this is all more by design than Personal character flaws? Perhaps your ire is misplaced? And done so on purpose? If you can’t see that, then the reflection is greater on you than on them.

          • jpl…”migration of wealth to those who did nothing to merit it”. You ARE referring to the banks aren’t you?

            • And the guy who gets bailed out – he got his value without paying fully.

      44. Along the same vein as “Refuse to Release” there’s this, do you see a theme developing?:

        “They laughed at Ron Paul when he said the fences — physical and otherwise — erected to keep the “illegals” out would someday be used to keep us in.

        As usual, he was right: “Bill Would Suspend Passport Rights For Delinquent Taxpayers””

      45. “The owners of this country know the truth: It’s called the American dream because you have to be asleep to believe it.”
        ~ George Carlin RIP

          • Carlin figured it out a long time ago
            and even after death he continues to be a truth teller
            most people still don’t get it

            “things will be different when the Republicans are in control”
            “things will be better when the Democrats are running things”
            “things will be better if everyone had conservative values
            no make that liberal values ???”

            blah blah blah

            there just ain’t no fixin’ stupid

            it’s US against “THEM”
            and if you haven’t figured that out
            your not going to make it
            watch that Carlin video a million times if you have to

            • George Carlin was and always will be THE MAN!!!! Miss him much , thank goodness for videos…

      46. “Now, there’s one thing you might have noticed I don’t complain about: politicians. Everybody complains about politicians. Everybody says they suck. Well, where do people think these politicians come from? They don’t fall out of the sky. They don’t pass through a membrane from another reality. They come from American parents and American families, American homes, American schools, American churches, American businesses and American universities, and they are elected by American citizens. This is the best we can do folks. This is what we have to offer. It’s what our system produces: Garbage in, garbage out. If you have selfish, ignorant citizens, you’re going to get selfish, ignorant leaders. Term limits ain’t going to do any good; you’re just going to end up with a brand new bunch of selfish, ignorant Americans. So, maybe, maybe, maybe, it’s not the politicians who suck. Maybe something else sucks around here… like, the public. Yeah, the public sucks. There’s a nice campaign slogan for somebody: ‘The Public Sucks. F*ck Hope.'”


      47. the state of education

        and now that have succeeded in making young people DEBT SLAVES
        I guess their work is complete

        “Mass public education is one of the great achievements of American society. It has had many dimensions. One purpose was to prepare independent farmers for life as wage laborers who would tolerate what they regarded as virtual slavery.

        The coercive element did not pass without notice. Ralph Waldo Emerson observed that political leaders call for popular education because they fear that “This country is filling up with thousands and millions of voters, and you must educate them to keep them from our throats.” But educated the right way: Limit their perspectives and understanding, discourage free and independent thought, and train them for obedience.”

        “Or there is the imperial “pacifist” Bertrand Russell, a Tavistock Institute director, in his 1953 The Impact Of Science On Society.

        “Education should aim at destroying free will so that after pupils are thus schooled they will be incapable throughout the rest of their lives of thinking or acting otherwise than as their school masters would have wished … The social psychologist of the future will have a number of classes of school children on whom they will try different methods of producing an unshakable conviction that snow is black. When the technique has been perfected, every government that has been in charge of education for more than one generation will be able to control its subjects securely without the need of armies or policemen.”

        “The scientific rulers will provide one kind of education for ordinary men and women, and another for those who are to become holders of scientific power. Ordinary men and women will be expected to be docile, industrious, punctual, thoughtless, and contented. Of these qualities probably contentment will be considered the most important. In order to produce it, all the researches of psycho-analysis, behaviourism, and biochemistry will be brought into play.”

        anyone have ANY doubts about how very evil and how very controlled our entire way of life is ??
        we have only the ILLUSION of freedom

      48. “Religion has convinced people that there’s an invisible man…living in the sky, who watches everything you do every minute of every day. And the invisible man has a list of ten specific things he doesn’t want you to do. And if you do any of these things, he will send you to a special place, of burning and fire and smoke and torture and anguish for you to live forever, and suffer and burn and scream until the end of time. But he loves you. He loves you and he needs money.”


      49. “You have to be realistic about terrorism. Certain groups of people, certain groups, Muslim fundamentalists, Christian fundamentalists, Jewish fundamentalists, and just plain AMERICAN FREEMEN PATRIOTS from Montana, are going to continue to make life in this country very interesting for a long, long time.”


      50. Not everyone is intrinsically oriented towards University. Some are mechanically inclined, but are not predisposed towards a formal engineering degree, for example.

        Life is a process of continual learning, both formal and informal for achievement.

        Confucious say: “Those who stand still are soon overtaken.”

        I have over one thousand hours of continuing, formal, professional education beyond university. That doesn’t include the countless hours of research I conducted for my own edification. None of it was free.

        All of it is priceless.

        • You mean somebody still has to nail on the roof or pick up the trash?

          • Bugger: I can and have done my own roofing. I also pick up my own trash, and I am such a “neat freak” I will often bend over and pick up a piece of paper on the ground or in a fast food restaurant that isn’t mine and throw it away.

            After all its the right thing to do. Keep America Beautiful.

      51. For all you “Yes we can/Yes we have no bananas” chanters out there that voted for Obumbler, **you brought this on yourselves.**

        Besides, what did you expect from your socialist university???? As Orwell said, in the socialist workers’ paradise, we’ll all be equal, only some of us (the profs like Ward Churchill retiring at 50 off your tuition and our tax dollars) will be “more equal” than the others.

        Any socialist students reading this, please get a clue. It’s already almost too late.

      52. I guess the new reality for parents is to check out what line of work is available FIRST before they send their kids off to college. That way if they can get by without a college degree, more power to them. No sense in going in debt if there are no jobs available in that field, whatever it may be. Look first then leap in the direction that suits your needs.

      53. Another aspect of the college lie that is commonly overlooked is the fact that employers will not hire you in your field of expertise if there is a large enough lapse of relevant employment from the date you are issued your degree. They figure that your skills were diminished because of your hiatus from your field of study; so in the end the kiss of death for any graduate is to graduate only to be unemployed for an extended period of time and be passed up for future job openings in favor of fresh grads with fresh “knowledge” (I use that last term loosely).

        • I am surprised that people haven’t figured out that they can start their own businesses, no matter how small, to get over the problem of employment gaps on their resumes. Just create and register a business. Use it on a resume as work experience. Maybe even make some money in the business and avoid unemployment. Or have a family member create the business to vouch for you as an employee. Instead of creating solutions to these problems, too many people sit around and moan and wait for bailouts.

          • Because that takes drive and ambition, surprisingly something that many college grads are lacking these days. It’s easier to sit on your ass all day and wait for something to land in your lap than it is to go out and work hard for it. I think we are beginning to see the fruits of the helicopter parent generation begin to blossom.

            In China the drive to succeed is spurred by the need to stay fed, for there are not safety nets there- you don’t wanna work? Well I guess you get to starve to death then.

      54. Several odd things going on here:
        Odd thing #1) Pedro wants to incur more debt rather than paying off his debt. Maybe, it’s time to find work outside your chosen Major. Sucks when you’re forced to realize the degree, the economy, bad decisions, or just plain bad luck has conspired against you for a while.
        Odd thing #2) With Sallie Mae, all you have to do is make a payment and you’re considered current. It may still show up as a derogatory mark on your credit, but you will be considered current.
        Odd thing #3) Our children are brainwashed into thinking college is the only option for them; as if welding, auto mechanics, off-shore, or military aren’t respected, needed, viable options.
        Odd thing #4) I liked Carlin, but he professed to be a devout atheist, agnostic, or unbeliever of some kind; yet, he signed off every show with “God bless.”

        • Ah-Hem, yes, several “odd” things are going on here, that’s for sure, there’s a freaking war on for your mind, dear reader:

          Should High School Students Join the Military?

          “… It is high time people of all ages quit worshipping the military and imagining it’s something other than what it really is.”

          “Have you become convinced that the only way to improve the moral and/or physical status of your country is to get the State to whip everyone into line? Do the defenses of individual rights and individual freedoms leave you feeling both bored and resentful? Are you daring enough to contemplate a nation where no-one does anything except what he or she is told by government officials, and find it to your liking? Are you inclined to dismiss defenses of freedom as mere apologetics for license and/or anarchy?

          If you got through the above series of questions with all “okay”s, then you may very well be a fascist. … ”

          “… I do not believe for a moment that people in the military today are “serving their country,” nor do I believe we “support the troops” by sending them in harm’s way, thousands of miles from home to fight wars based on lies,… This country’s military long since ceased to serve their country, but instead, fight and die for the duplicitous State.” …

          Every college student should read those links, and search this one too: Brutus on the Evils of Standing Armies, and make up your own dang mind about what is respectable and what is not.

          • when you join the military
            you are serving the government


            are you SERVING the country???

            those are two DISTINCTLY DIFFERENT questions

            the .gov of course would have us believe they are one in the same

          • Interesting articles. One of them points out our easily crossed southern border but does not seem to mention our northern border (maybe I missed it). Seems I heard (who knows what’s true) the northern border is crossed more readily by those who would do us harm.

        • 1)Pedro is one of the many libtard idiots who believes he should not be held accountable for his own mistakes in life- there is no such thing as bad luck or misfortune, just bad or hastily made decisions in life. I mean c’mon, a music major? A buddy of mine who is also a music teacher told his high school students flat out that most music majors get paid on the 1st of the month.

          2)This is true about one payment making you current and it may seem this story is trying to pander to those who are raging against the college machine for their own mistakes in life. The real premise of this story is to show one of the many ways in which our younger and more gullible generations is becoming enslaved by our Government.

          3)The military isn’t what it used to be: the caliber of soldier they are cranking out now a days is a far cry from those decades ago. With rapes, gangs, and drug use running rampant in our armed services, it isn’t your grandpa’s Army anymore. Also, trades are not a guaranteed goldmine in themselves, the hours can be long, hard, and the work is not steady in most cases. I know a welder who has to constantly keep his eyes open for welding for hire jobs that pop up in order to keep food on the table. He makes an OK living but it isn’t as great as some would think. Mechanics? The wages can start for many at barely $10 an hour, no benefits or bonuses. With tech schools cranking out sub par mechanics and tradesman every mad minute, those institutions are also driving down the wages for those kinds of jobs.

          4)Carlin is a comedian and as with any comedian, should be taken lightly. Yes Carlin does bring up a few good points about life in general but his ideals and stand up routines should not be taken as gospel.

          • I see the libtards are already thumbing me down. 😀

      55. Satori wrote, “Education should aim at destroying free will so that after pupils are thus schooled they will be incapable throughout the rest of their lives of thinking or acting otherwise than as their school masters would have wished”

        Does that describe the military too, or wHAt?

        Satori wrote, “When the technique has been perfected, every government that has been in charge of education for more than one generation will be able to control its subjects securely without the need of armies or policemen.”

        I think of something just like that whenever I see People mindlessly (automatically/roboticaly) putting on their seatbelts when they get into their cars or as they are driving down the road.

        And for those who might be thinking, “Eh, don’t want to taste the steering wheel” I ask, do you feel that way if you’re only driving 4 m.p.h.? What’s the need then? Why is it worthy of being pulled over and detained at that speed? So why is it ok to get a ticket at 25 m.p.h.?

        It’s because it’s All About Obedience and Submission, automatic and without thinking about it, nothing more.

        Is that what they call Classic Conditioning?
        A nation of Pavlovians?

        A field full of Pavlovian clovers?

        Yeesh, I’m done. This culture is a lot like what has been said of the Japanese economy, a bug looking for a windshield.

        • I can only give you one thumbs up.Wish it were ten.It IS all about control. Fed corp bureaucrats creating rules to enforce to justify their jobs and steal your wealth.

      56. FED RESERVE CHAIRMAN ben bernanke balances your families and your life on the edge of a razor SHARP knife… and he’s been drinking from a bottle of “HOPISM”! You might want to buy some silver now while you still can as a place to store your wealth! ~NinaO

        In layman terms that means – the shit will hit the fan. The Federal Reserve and Treasury will be caught in their own web of lies. The only way to attract buyers will be to dramatically increase interest rates. Doing this in a country up to its eyeballs in debt will be suicide. We will abruptly know how it feels to be Greek….The entire financial world is hopelessly entangled by the $700 trillion of derivatives that ensure mass destruction if one of the dominoes falls. This is the reason an otherwise inconsequential country like Greece had to be “saved”.

        it can’t be said any plainer… ~NinaO

      57. the loan or the bill from the school was paid in full by the bank..the school isnt hurting, or not getting paid they been paid. so your not stiffing the school.
        the reason for all the screaming is because the banksters are not getting their pound of flesh, and after the bail out of the banks and how they treat us citizens afterwards when it was our money that bailed them out..I say fuck em!

      58. PARENTS OF KIDS … In times of THE SHTF … beware … protect your children…

        “Shocking figures released by British police have shown that one child sex attack occurred every 20 minutes in the UK last year, equivalent to 444 attacks a week!”

        this is just a report on england… now take these percentages and apply them to ameriKa’s population of 330 million!!!

        iT’S A pANDEMIC!!! Child sex attacks on the rise!

      59. A financial loan is a legal and binding contract. Those who do not honor their loan contract will be subjected to the punitive course of actions for failure to pay back the loan. With a student financial loan, the education is the asset. Since an education is not viable real property, the only tangible property is the college records, aka the transcript.

        If withholding transcripts is one of the punitive measures, I see no problem with using that methodology. This is the only physical means to seize “property” that is tangible to the financial loan. If someone defaults on a mortgage for real property, the property is seized. Same as for a vehicle or any other real property that is considered an asset.

        • the school has suffered no loss
          they got their money

          what sense does it make to withhold a a transcript?
          the ONLY THING that does is practically GUARANTEE
          that that person will never get a job in their field

          how are they gonna pay a student loan off working at McDonalds ??

          THEY AREN’T
          that college policy is STUPIDITY PERSONIFIED

        • Zoltanne – you have my vote for the presidency !!!! What a clear thinking, rationalist. The revolution begins by holding people accountable.

          • Ha! JPL, people wouldn’t like me as a President. Top of the agenda would be a 5-year weaning program to remove all government-dependents from “the system” forever using a very different strategy. After the 5 years, those who refused to enter society as a law-abiding and productive member would become a Ward of the State and would be relocated to government facilities where they would literally be “taken care of” if they failed to take care of themselves.

            If the Feds do not radically change “welfare” practices, we’ll see more and more of the bulletproof stuff in Max’s other April 5th post.

      60. College loan debt is now a gamble. Unless you have connections to a sound and stable company before biting off $100K debt, you’re better off going to a local community college and paying as you go. You can always transfer to a four year if the desire or need takes you there. This newer generation of highschool grads already have the mindset that a four year degree on “anything”, will get them a foot in the door and then a cushy office with perks and $100K annually. Not anymore. There are people waiting in the wings with those degrees that have plenty of years of experience,mortgages,families and desperation. Some are so desperate they will take a job at half the pay just to have some kind of income to put food on the table. The rich are always gonna take care of the rich, but it’s the average person that has to pay to gamble on their future.

      61. FEDERAL Multiple Weather modification weapons (HAARP/SCALAR) ACTIVATED to Attack Texans! By the Federal Government!

        4/3/2012 — HAARP ring Scalar Square Sawtooth outbreak = watch TX, LA, OK, KS, MO

        Giant Tornado’s predicted 24 hrs before by Government HAARP Weather Weapon Activation!

        The NWO ZIONIST Federal Government is Attacking Americans with MAN MADE SUPER STORMS!

        watch and see the truth of it…

        4/3/2012 — HAARP ring Scalar Square Sawtooth outbreak = watch TX, LA, OK, KS, MO

        4/4/2012 — I’m mad as hell , and not going to take it anymore !


      62. This is a prime example of what is wrong with the ‘system’ of finance in this country.

        In the past, there was a way to keep banks honest.

        Bankrupcty !! It was the law !!

        Make a bad loan and there WAS a real possibility you could lose through ‘legal’ bankruptcy.

        NOW – Student loans cannot be part of bankruptcy.

        The end result is banks dont care who they lend to OR the ability to repay.

        The Fed Gov protects the banks bad decisions with bad law.

        Progressive law to allow MORE people to attend college is the problem.

        Sounds good but the only way to do it is make bad loans and use FedGov to collect.

        More FedGov overreach !!

      63. “If all the bank loans were paid, no one could have a bank deposit, and there would not be a dollar of coin or currency in circulation. This is a staggering thought. We are completely dependent on the commercial banks. Someone has to borrow every dollar we have in circulation, cash, or credit. If the banks create ample synthetic money we are prosperous; if not, we starve. We are absolutely without a permanent money system. When one gets a complete grasp of the picture, the tragic absurdity of our hopeless situation is almost incredible — but there it is.” – Robert H. Hemphill,
        “federal” bank of Atlanta

        • kevin: If the only source of bank revenue is from interest bearing loans, then I agree with Hemphill. If you or I take capital and add value to it – take raw materials and make something of it and sell it for more than the material value – then we would have another (better) source of revenue. This is the revenue generator that’s missing in the US – our GDP shows it. And the defacto position we have to hold to maintain a reserve currency around the world is a forced trade imbalance where we take in but don’t ship out.

      64. ;0) Oh Boy isn’t this just GREAT???

        The US government apparently needs over 750 million extra .40 caliber rounds for use in what can only be assumed to be future “domestic operations.”

        DHS has signed off on an “indefinite delivery” from defense contractors ATK that will include, for some reason, nearly 500 million high-power ammunition for .40 caliber firearms.

        US Forest Service (USDA) solicited and secured a bid for over 300,000 rounds of ammunition (scary raw milk farmers beware) including:

        Added: Sep 28, 2011 5:15 pm

        (1) 40 caliber, 180 grain, 120,000 rounds or equivalent,

        (2) 9 mm, 124 grain, 50,000 rounds or equivalent,

        (3) .38 caliber, 135 grain, 10,000 rounds or equivalent,

        (4) .380 caliber, 90 grain, 6,000 rounds or equivalent,

        (5) .223 caliber, 64 grain, 87,500 rounds or equivalent,

        (6) 12 gauge 00 buck, 15,000 rounds or equivalent,

        (7) 40 caliber frangible, 10,000 rounds or equivalent,

        (8) 9 caliber frangible, 10,000 rounds or equivalent,

        (9) .223 caliber frangible, 10,000 rounds or equivalent,

        (10) 12 gauge 1 oz slug, 7,500 rounds or equivalent

        The cartridges shall be delivered to Albuquerque, NM.

        U.S. Fish and Wildlife Services require the following items, Exact Match Only, to the following:

        1. Remington Frangible .40 Caliber Pistol Ammunition – 2,500 rounds

        2. Remington .40 Caliber Pistol Ammunition (180 grain) Full Metal Jacket – 6,000 rounds

        3. Remington .223 Caliber Rifle Ammunition (62 grain) Full Metal Jacket – 3,000 rounds

        4. Remington FX Marking Cartridges (9 mm) – 2,000 rounds

        These requirements seem normal considering the possibility of running into grizzly bears and wolverines. These, to me, are acceptable quantities to order.

        And of course the FBI needs about 100,000,000 rounds of .40 caliber ammunition for law enforcement needs. It posted the request November 15, 2011 and the order will be awarded this week. Oddly, it states a fixed price indefinite-delivery indefinite-quantity type contract; however the pricing requirements go up to 100,000,000 rounds.

        ;0) Oh Boy!
        some one is planning to do us All some very serious harm people!

        ;0) Tee Hee!
        Arm Up Stock Up Prepare! Cause “The IMF NWO CFR U.N. Man” is COMING LOADED FOR BEAR!!!


        KEVIN: “WHO IS IT?”

        FEDS: “IT’S THE DHS FBI”








      65. on Drudge Report…


        • I am always skeptical about those reports. Whenever a rocket “hits” nothing is EVER hit. Let me guess. It landed in a vacant lot, and 0 property damage, injuries, and deaths. Perhaps “country A” is like those jewish people in NY always painting swastickas on their own property???

          • Interesting timing for this. Officials from Egypt’s Muslim Brotherhood have had meetings with White House officials in Washington this week.

            link on Drudge Report

        • From the sounds of the reports..they didnt hit anything, and no deaths.

          if thats even the truth?

      66. Judging by some of the comments here, there is a crying need for some education in the most basic economics and finance among SHTF readers. Just don’t take out any loans to get it.

      67. Sue the school. THe truth is that the student loan system is a rip off right from the start. The legal issue is this, you sign a promisary note with a spevified lender before you ever get loans, the lonas(some) are subsidised by the feds for the cost of the interest. The school only benifits from it and once your and indepted(t a lender) te school is now a third party and to with hold your transcripts based on the fact that ypu owe to a lender that is not part of that school is a blatent conflict of interest. They cant hold your transcripts unless ypu owe them money, the loan issue is between yu and yuour lender I would most definately sue.

        • Archer – I don’t suppose you have discovered the legal arrangements between the universities and the Federal Govt, have you?

      68. 25% default = 25% liberal arts degrees. Enough said. LOL

      69. I worked as a police officer for 4 years and during that time got a degree with no debt. These dead beat kids that borrow money for their schooling so they can play xbox instead of work now want a free hand out – they want Obama to forgive their loans. Woe is them. Screw them – pay or debtors prison!

      70. ~~~This isn’t about making the world a better place or developing a skilled workforce. It’s about how much money they can make, you’re future be damned.~~~

        I read not long ago colleges and universities were enrolling homeless street people, getting financial aid, and didn’t care that the ‘student’ never showed for class!!

        No, way!!! Not this ‘transparent’ age.

      71. thank you for isolating and warning us about another arm of the bloodsucking vulture octopus……and their minions….(posted from Arizona where disturbing or insultive comments may soon be illegal)….morons..!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

      72. GC,
        I can only offer my experience and general knowledge as a basis for my conclusions on banking practices and legality. I most respectfully disagree with your conclusions about the source of bank money, and the obligations of those who make loans. So, I’m willing to test your knowledge in a practical way:

        1. I would like for you to capitalize me to buy a property I have my eye on – will you do this for no charge? And give me about 20 years to pay you back? By the way, I am likely to default if I get uncomfortable.

        2. I also agree that these FRNs are a fiat currency, being fake and illegal. Please send me any that you have and I’ll get rid of it for you.

        3. Send me your knowledge source for banking practices. To my knowledge (common knowledge), banks are very difficult to get chartered, subject to regulation, and require start up capitalization as much as $6M in deposits before transacting loans.

        The only thing I can figure is that you are confusing commercial bank practices with money being issued by the federal reserve – however, this is done under authorization and direction of the US congress. The only issue in this process is that because the federal reserve is involved the US government (the people) are subject to usury.

        • JPL

          I can not capitalize any property for you at this time. However, if you buy congress and get them to use my bank notes at interest and then force everyone else to do the same, I may be able to help you. I can print up some bills for you just the same as the Fed, and they will be worth the same thing. It is the unlawful force behind the paper that gives them value, and removes the value from yourself and your labor.

          So long as the fraud is enforced at the point of a gun, I doubt you will find anyone to send you the extras. When there are enough guns pointed back, I will be sure to send you several large stacks.

          My knowledge of the Fed comes from the fed itself. It readily admits to creating money and even explains how it is done. Banks are difficult to get chartered to keep out honest money competition and small banks.

          In a free system, all you need to do to open a bank is put up a shingle and start taking deposits. Of course, you could only take gold and silver deposits and only put out notes for what you have on hand. All other regulations are for those wanting to join in on the money creation scam to profit from it.

          You remain clueless as to the pure evil of such an establishment and the effect of a PRIVATE corporation having the “authority” to “print money”.

          When you decide it is time to wake up and stop the fraud rather than defending it, the information is very easy to find through Google, and much of it comes from the government records.

          Til then, sleep well with the rest of the sheep who have not the sense to realize they are being sheered.

          • A Banksters worst nightmare,Being forced to Return to Real Money=United States Note=Lawful Money. The real reason you pay an income tax, is for the privilege of using a private currency. Also known As A: Federal Reserve Note, Demand from your bank or brokerage, lawful money and the tax goes away, with a tax exemption on lawful money, all of your money is yours.
            Tax Exemption:
            Web search these four different phrases: Redeemed in Lawful Money or United States Note or Redeemed in Lawful Money Pursuant to Title 12 USC §411 or deposited for credit on account or exchanged for non-negotiable federal reserve notes of face value

      73. I graduated from a private secondary “college” in 1987. I had honours. They did not want to acknowledge this as it “would hurt the feelings of the lesser graduates”. I fought and had my diploma reissued acknowledging my honours status.

        The real joke? I knew more about the the entire course material than the teacher did when I started the course.

        Two lessons; The post secondary educational system is all about making money for the institutions and banks. Students are a mere method to make their money. Second, with the exception of trade and technical schools, I would never consider hiring a university or college graduate. They no nothing of the real world and have no valid experience. Most (but admittedly not all) graduates have an attitude they have no need to learn, they have a diploma.

        In high school the only two courses that did anything for me were typing, accounting and social studies. Typing taught me a skill which has proven valuable. Accounting has given me the ability to decipher a P&L and balance sheet statements. Social studies taught me to critical thinking skills. This however was only due to the dedication of the caring an professional teachers in the social studies courses. Most teachers were a waste of space and air in my opinion.

        But then I left home when I was fourteen and worked full time in the evening to support myself while attending high school in the day. I’m biased, so my attitudes towards the “poor hard done by struggling students” may reflect a degree of hostility.

        I drove taxi for 19 years while building my computer services company. Listening to whiny university students about what are they going to do in life was very educational. But not for them, I was at least earning my keep while legitimately struggling to build my company.

        We (collectively) are so screwed. Rant off.

      74. If you are all still talking about students that need money to pay their loans, I would suggest getting a grant or free money from an organization or foundation, I just recently visited Guide4FreeMoney Hope you like and enjoy it as much as I did!!!

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