Denninger: “I Hope You’ve Taken the Last Couple of Years to Become Prepared”

by | Sep 22, 2011 | Emergency Preparedness, Karl Denninger | 195 comments

Do you LOVE America?


    Karl Denninger, who forecasted the breakdown in stock markets a couple of weeks before the crash of 2008, says that all hell is now breaking loose:

    You’ve once again had your 401k and IRA whacked by the incessant lies and scams promulgated by your government and the “financial wizards” who seduced you back into the markets with half-truths and siren songs.

    The market opened this morning down 300+ DOW points and the VIX slammed through the 40 level.  There will clearly be bounces along the line but as things stand right now the underlying financial conditions have not changed one iota from where they were in 2007.  Instead of allowing those who were overlevered to go bust and have capitalism do what it does best – creative destruction of the foolish – we instead took private effectively-defaulted risk and transferred it to the public balance sheet.

    But that’s a scam – it simply moves the deck chairs on the economic Titanic, because governments can only raise funds through two means: They can borrow money (increasing leverage) or they can tax it (decreasing consumption or investment by private parties.)  The obvious “borrow it” choice was made here in the US and elsewhere, but just as with private borrowing government borrowing has limits and we’re now running into them, and deficit spending creates false demand signals in the economy that must eventually end.

    Recognition that you’ve been scammed can be a truly ugly thing.  It is usually violent at an emotional and financial level, and more often than one would like it has a habit of being violent in the physical sense as well.

    Well, America (and the world), you’ve been scammed by the financial institutions and governments for the last 30 years.  2008 was the first spasm of recognition but was short-circuited by…. you guessed it…. even more scams.  Rather than demand truth and an end to the games the American consumer lapped up the frauds and schemes of the politicians on both sides of the aisle who conspired with the financiers to rip you off once again.

    The opportunity to address these issues as I have been tirelessly attempting to do, was ignored by those in policy roles in Washington DC.  Those who have been reading The Ticker are well-aware of my efforts going back into 2007 and through the 2008 Presidential campaign on both sides of the aisle, along with my efforts since.

    They’ve been ignored with the political establishment choosing to knob-job the banks and lie to you, the public, rather than address the fact that the entire last 30 years have been one gigantic economic scam and that what they were attempting to do could not, as a matter of mathematics, succeed.

    Now recognition of that fact is dawning on people in a convulsive fashion, and markets of all sorts are reacting as one would expect when their entire worldview is exposed as having been a gigantic and intentional pyramid scheme constructed of debt layered upon debt thatcannot be paid down.  The wrong thing was done in 2008 and there is zero evidence that our government has changed one iota in their singular focus on misdirection and lies in this regard.

    Welcome to awareness; I hope you’ve taken the last couple of years to become prepared.

    Source: Market Ticker

    Denninger has for years put forth mathematically undeniable empirical evidence that shows not only how unsustainable our system is, but the lunacy in the government’s purported solutions and response.

    Our debt load is too high. Our production capacity has been decimated. Our GDP growth is negative and has been for a decade (if you look at the real data).

    It may very well all be coming to a head. While we opined earlier that the triggers for the meltdown of the last 24 hours may not have been a loss of confidence in the US dollar, that doesn’t mean it won’t happen as a result of what will play out in coming weeks and months.

    It’s clear that stock markets world wide are in panic mode, and this will not bode well for investors, as Denninger suggested in a commentary yesterday:

    I’ll go ahead and make the prediction now: This time will be worse than 2008 and we’ll measure from SPX 1370, which makes the minimum downside target under 600.  And no, this time it won’t recover with more “hopium” and fraud – that card has already been played which means the pension funds and annuities across this nation are going to get smoked, exactly as I warned about four years ago.

    Consider the implications of what led to the collapse of  2008, our failure to resolve the problem, the obscene debt we created in the last three years, and the economic disaster that is the American job market.

    Many have been holding out hope that “they” will do something to keep everything from normal.

    They won’t.

    So if you haven’t spent the last two or three years preparing, then we’d recommend you get into high gear right now. Not tomorrow. Not next week. Now.

    The world as we have come to know it, in one way or another, is going to crumble over coming years. It may happen overnight in a rapid waterfall collapse, or it may deteriorate over several years. Regardless of how it happens or exactly how long it takes, we’re running out of time and the outcome will be the same. Here’s historical proof exists that this can happen in America. In The Redline: A Tale of Collapse, Brandon Smith depicts a scenario that may not be too far off from what reality will look like in America in the not too distant future.

    Suffice it to say that if you want to avoid, or at least insulate yourself from, living in a world of poverty, violence, and despair, consider how you can become more self reliant today.

    All of these questions and many more should be at the top of your list of things to do right now.

    Obviously, mainstream media, government and central bankers have been lying to us about the state of our economy and financial markets. Perhaps preparedness minded web sites like SHTFplan are wrong.

    But what will you do if we’re right?


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      1. I just someone would step up and tell us; is it going to be hyperinflationary or deflationary? Inquiring minds needs to know…..

        • Well if you have listened to all these people it will be both . That means it will be neither! I will tell you it will not happen overnight and it will be more like 10 or more years if it happens at all . These people keep people glued by sirens of imminent danger danger because if they don’t they don’t make their money . This is ad big a scam as investing in the stock market !
          How many years have they warned us of hyper inflation if this bailout went through and then it wad QE1 was going to ignite hyper inflation and then QE2 and now QE3 ……I’m not a sucker to this scam any longer !

          • You can’t print trillions of bogus dollars without having hyperinflation. It’s just a matter of time. I think we’re going to see a complete economic collapse due to hyperinflation within the next two years. It could happen much faster if the Federal Reserve prints $3 trillion or $5 trillion or $10 trillion to stabilize the world’s banking system after the PIIGS default.

            • Is that why gold is dropping at 100. USD per day??? When corruption is total, none of the usual methods of coping are in play. I read a couple years ago, they were going to pump it up and then drop to 300. USD per oz- similar scheme they pulled on OPEC nations back in the 1980s.

          • Rich, I’m glad to see someone actually has some objectivity on this site. If not for the hysterics, these authors would actually have to write legitimate fact checked stories. I mean, how popular would the site be if it reported that collapse is at least 20 years away? Or perhaps, no collapse in sight?

          • seriously, i so agree with you. i am sick and tired of all these doomers and gloomers, better spend the time and money on keeping everything together and making this country great again. all this time and money spent on “the end of the world as we know” it pisses me off…to put it mildly. there is nothing wrong with being prepared for emergencies but we all have children and grandchildren. we owe them a great future and that is what I am working towards.

            • yep, just because your little world is still so unaffected that you still have income and “investments” and a nice home, yes, it seems that all is fine and you want to focus on the “future”, sorry but just because you have all that, and grandchildren too, does not mean you are going to escape it, good luck, your present good fortune is not going to stop

            • Want some harsh reality Jake? Alot of children and grandchildren will, unfortunately, not make it.
              I have children, and I know this is a reality. THAT pisses me off. Thats what SHOULD piss YOU off.
              But…do you know why this is gonna happen?
              Because the one’s that are supposed to be protecting them won’t wake the hell up! Most of those asleep will submit. Some will work for whatever NWO-type entity that will be. Some will be held captive for insubordination. Some will be terminated. Even children. ALOT will just simply..starve.
              I just hope enough HAVE awoken in time!

              In the U.S.A.;
              Your property and any money invested in banks and such will become property of, and controlled by the US Govt, as well as your life, as is a State of Martial Law, by Christmas. And thats just right off the bat!
              If I have to explain any more than that, it’s too late for you. You aren’t even mildly prepared.
              Hell man, I probably ain’t either..but I’m not being owned. Not without a big crowbar! And even then, not alive. Not for what I have to believe, is humanly wrong.
              I do wish you, and your children and grandchildren, the best of luck. But that’s the truth.
              I hate it too, and if it’s any consolation..if it does go down, and your children are anywhere near me at the time..I don’t care whether you hate me, and are my enemy, I will protect your children too.

              Blessed Be to everyone–

        • Hi Jim,

          US Marine here.

          I use to think that Rich was nothing more than a gov’t shill, but after reading a lot of his comments, I think he genuinely believes what he is saying.

          So, allow me to apologize to Rich, you are perfectly entitled to your view, which is not entirely off-base either.

          I will get to your question in a second Jim, but allow me to get to it as an extension of addressing Rich’s POV (Point Of View)

          Firstly, Rich states we have been hearing this doom & gloom stuff for years, some of it predicated on scaming for profit.

          Rich is absolutely correct that we have been hearing this stuff for years. In fact it has occurred over & over thru out human history in every civilation that has come and gone. He also believes that some of it is drivin by the “profit motive”, which for SOME people/business/corporations, it clearly is. So on this point,.. I agree with Rich.

          The second and more troubling aspect is Rich believes that these “End-of-times” warnings will continue as long as people are willing to acknowlege them and people make money from it, not because there is any real systemic issue to make it occur.

          This is where I disagree.

          The main problem is, “The Fed” was not set-up for the best interests of Americans, it was set up by Paul Warburg and Senator Nelson Aldrige to transfer wealth from US Citizens to the Banking Cartel called The Fed, The IMF, The World Bank, ECB and so. All extensions of the same organization.

          They have succeeded.

          This country is now completely broke, in fact beyound broke since we in reality are near 200 Trillion in debt.

          This is impossible to pay off.

          The European countries are in the same position.

          Our Economic system was designed around the “Infinite Growth Paradigm”, which has now reached its logical conclusion due to its impossibility. (Hence the reason you always hear these central bankers talking about the need for “growth”)

          Our Financial System was designed on the “Debt Based – Fiat Currency System” which has now reached its mathematical limits.

          Our Political System was based on the notion of a “Republic” with self-less leaders, but is now anything but a Republic and is in fact one step away from a complete Dictatorship, rife with Corruption, Collusion, Selfishness, and Representatives whose sole concern is their own persoanl enrichment while they impovish the rest of us.

          Our Judicial System is little more than a rubber stamp circus shrouted in legal technical jargon to obscure the real crimes it committs everyday and support the abuses, crimes and murder of those Dept’s, Agencies and organizations that support them.

          Our industry is gone, our creative edge destroyed, our liberties eviscerated to near extintion.

          We are a country of ~ 300 million

          We now have 25 million unemployed, and our gov’t lies about that number everyday.

          We now have 46 million on the Obama Coupon (food stamps), and that number grows everyday.

          Their are approximately one million a year being kicked out of their homes since 2008, and this years rate is on track to make that 2 million.

          The ONLY products of high value we export are Debt & Death.

          Debt: US Treasuries to the tune of 1.6 Trillion a year need to be funded. (The Fed now buys approx. 70% of our own IOU’s right now)

          Death: We have nearly 800 military bases in over 130 different countries. We routinely bomb, shoot, arrest, torture, and kill people around the globe by the thousands everyday.

          America has been little more than Israel’s lapdog with the advent of The Fed and gets us to destroy its enemys.

          We have lost our way, we have eliminated God as the our highest moral authority, and we have lost our unity from the debasing and destructive effects of,.. “multiculturalism”,.. which is little more than a liberal term for “white people lose”.

          We are over regulated, over taxed, and overwhelmed by the sheer magnitude and abuses of the Federal Government.

          Our own gov’t committed 9/11 to push its dictatorial agenda, and is now run exclusivley by the physcopaths of the shadow government of unelected, unaccountable and largely un-named socio-paths that infect every quarter of our completely dysfunctional gov’t.

          The layered upon layered debts of CDS, MBS, Treasuries, Bonds, Obligations, a multitude of Derivatives, etc, etc, etc both here and through out the world, has now reached its own collapse point.

          So you see Rich, Collapse is imminent, its just a question of exactly when, which none of us know due to one simple fact:

          Never underestimate the gov’ts capability to stall a crisis,… or create one.

          Given the breaking point of Debt-to-GDP of most countries, it could happen at any time now.

          Once the collapse starts, you won’t have sufficient reaction time to prepare for anything, which is why you need to do that stuff in advance, or, in your case, simply do nothing and deal with it when it comes.

          As to Jims question of Defaltion/Inflation, the answer is both.

          At the outset of collapse, people have little money and so sell the possions for “firesale” prices, as will many commercial stores when sales drop by 30, 40, 50% or more.

          Because the US Dollar is the Worlds reserve currency and so many people in so many different countries are familiar with it, it will retain its value initially, but as conditions persist, then deteriorate, shortages start to occcur, and gov’t now relies on simply printing money to fund itself (hyper-inflation onset), people will quickly have less and less faith in “paper with some fancy print on it”, and start to insist on more tangible items such as Gold, Silver or other hard assets, which then gives birth to the real barter system.

          Time line for this,..unknown. Economic collapse on the scale we are discussing is unprecedented in human history, therefore we have no real guidelines to draw assumptions against.

          The best defensive is a good offense, which is to recognize the clear and present danger, the true nature of our failed government and to make preparations on your own.

          This is only a general argument both for and against Rich’s POV, but it is the basic nuts & bolts of what would constitute the basis of a comprehensive analysis.

          Hope that helped a little.

          Thanks, US – Marines

          • Rich is right as is US Marines. However, everybody seems to not see the forest for all its trees. If a collapse is the forest, then the trees represent the causes.

            The trees are diseased, on fire, rotting, crowded, and generally broken down. Generally, the bad trees just fall over and disappear or are cut out of the forest. But one stand of trees, the ugliest stand, is undernourished and on very dry land. One spark and the most violent fire will break out in that stand and ultimately destroy the entire forest.

            And this ugly stand of trees represents our welfare state. Don’t worry about how a financial collapse or disruption will affect your ability to retire, pay your mortgage, take a vacation, keep a job or simply find one. We will survive all that. Starting over financially has never been too difficult for self-reliant people. But, when the welfare state collapses, due to inflation turning a dollar into a dime, without the commensurate increase in the welfare dollar, then hunger will drive everything. The thin veneer of civility, currently purchased by the welfare dollar and enforced by our justice system, will disappear overnight. The tell tale signs of societal collapse will first be seen in the grocery store.

            When the flash mobs move from the convenience stores to the grocery stores . . . . . .

          • So by me saying that this could go on for another 10 years isn’t wrong either based upon your comment , so that makes me correct again and I agree with a lot of your jargon but this is far far far from over or even beginning if you really want to analyze it . My main point is that if…..if this even does collapse we have many many years until it does !

            • Insert image of idiot jumping up and down on frozen pond saying, “It will Never crack!”

              …Make own judgments from there.

            • You cannot assume that you have years to prepare…this whole unstable financial house of cards could crumble any day now, or the banksters and their lackeys in government can find yet another way to kick the can down the road again (buying another year or two). I would not bet my life or the lives of my family on it…better to be a year to early than one day too late. Don’t wait for the last lifeboat to leave before deciding it’s time to get ready.

            • Many Many years? Really??
              If you think that way for real, you’re screwed for sure.
              By Christmas..this year…

          • Guys, the basisc fact is we, as a nation, are losing our constitutional rights and our buying power is shrinking. If your view is; it isn’t going to happen then what does it take for an individual to see the writing on the wall?
            Where the terms are inflation or deflation, it still amounts to a form of theft. How many retirement funds have to disappear? How high will unemployment have to rise(think Detroit)? How small does the farming community have to shrink? Before we admit something is going on and it isn’t good?
            What has been happening, financial/economics, printing of excess fiat money, markets and the slowly indoctrination of NWO; have been little tests to see how the majority will react. Is the collapse coming? Yes. When? None of us are privy to that answer. We can only look for the signs and help others (that’ll listen) to prepare.

            • We have refused as citizens to defend our land. Not referring to guns- guns are just the final, futile defense when the battle is already lost. A false comfort which would be irrelevant if we had stood up back when winning was possible and nipped the swindling in the bud.

              EVERY country on earth has fought for their rights- Iraq, Congo, Mexico, Argentina…. We do nothing and the loss is our fault.

              We continue to pay taxes tho most are grafted/gifted to the criminals and pay for endless war and our destruciton in FEMA camps. We continue to vote for the criminals who rape us daily. We continue to dociley pay credit card debt back to the banksters who pillage us- when withholding such is our only power. While Rome burnt to the ground, we typed, mistaking these for actions and resistance. More than anything, its our own apathy/affluence that destroyed us.

          • I just had to “reply” to this explanation if only to endorse the logic of it’s content. Your’s would be a good foxhole to be near when the time comes. If we consider that a country;s currency equates to the common stock that a nation issues, then I suggest that the collapse is imminent. Nothing remains of this nations credibility or apparent desire to sacrifice for Its common good. Thus expect the worst and pray that we have not even underestimated that. The post civil war south comes to mind, and I fear we will just one day wake up in that “new World Order”.

          • Again I am humbled by your simple and eloquent explanation to a very tangled situation. Bravo Sir![or sergeant]

            • Hi Stealth,

              How are you Brother Marine?

              Thought I lost you.

              If you were refering to me above (Sergeant), I actually got out a Corporal. My unit was so fuk’n top heavy, I got stuck at Lance for 36 months!

              I actually pick up my promotion on the battlefield.

              Anyway, if you were looking to right to me, I set up a scrub account: [email protected]

              I don’t know if your comment was directed at me for the explanation, but after reviewing it, I didn’t explain the Deflation/Inflation aspect as well as I should have as I have seen many people get confused on this issue, so permit me to expand on what I stated above just a little.


              There are really two different meanings for these terms, allow me to state them for clarity.

              Technical: There is the Eco-101, technical definition of Expansion of money Supply for Inflation, and Contraction of Money Supply for Deflation.

              Vernacular: There is the common everyday usage of the word as it pertains to peoples experiences. Price Increases for Inflation – meaning it takes MORE money to buy the same item, and Price Decrease for Deflation – meaning it lates LESS money to buy the same item.

              Our Monetary Base has been drastically INCREASED by the Fed from about 700 billion nearly ten years ago, to an exponential explosion of nearly 2.8 Trillion Currently.

              This a 400% increase in our Monetary Base (Inflation).

              There are a few reason why a loaf of bread is not costing us $30 – $40 today as would normally be expcted by inflationary policies.

              1) The US Dollar is the still the worlds reserve currency even though it is actively been reduced in international trades.

              2) Oil is dominated in Dollars. The fact is, Oil is the true measue of the US Dollar. How long that stays true into the future is anyones guess.

              3) Most of the inflated monetary base that helicopter Ben created (our Fed Chairmen) is lock up at banks as “Excess Reserves”, meaning that the banks are holding about 1.7 Trillion of our excess monetary base in shoe boxes out of public sight or use.

              4) Most money that is “created” out of nothingness is not even printed. Its simply created by a keystroke on a Fed Computer and then moved over to the US Treasuries computer. If I remember right, only about 5% of our monetary base exists as actual “cash”. The rest is phantom computer entries. (Note: I have seen the % of printed cash, but don’t recall the exact number off-hand, so don’t quote me on the 5% figure, but it was surprising small).

              So what happens in a Deflationary Period?

              Basically it takes less cash to buy the same item.

              So why is that bad?

              Its not for your grocery shopping, or when you go to buy consumer goods such as Tv’s, cars, washing machines, etc.

              Its bad for high value items you wish to sell, such as your home.

              eg: If you paid $100,000 for your home, and because money has increased in purchasing power, you maybe only able to sell it for $80,000 (assuming the price drop is due to increasing purchase value of the currency).

              No matter what, your out $20,000 because your purchase contract was for a specific numerical value ($100,000 in this case) with NO provisions for currency value.

              But now look at it from the other direction:

              You bought the house at $100,000, but can now sell it at $120,000.

              Your $20,000 up, but in reality, its because the purchasing power of the dollar has been eroded, so it takes MORE dollars to buy the same thing.

              This was part of the “Infinite Growth” expectations that drove the Real Estate Bubble in the early 2000’s (in addition to the low interest rates and a few other factors.)

              Now we look at the pending Economic/financial Collapse:

              Intially, as the velocity of money slows (economic activity slows), the way to compensate to boost sales numbers is to,….(drum roll please…) reduce prices!

              This is Deflation, but a “false deflation”. The price reduction was really at the expense of profit margins and inventory reduction.

              As government assumes the role of providing financial activity, it must get the money it spends from somewhere since a government really has no money of its own.

              How does it do this?,… thats right,.. run up the old printing press.

              Of course someone might say we have been doing that with no ill effect so far.

              Incorrect. Since the installation of the Unconsitutional “Fed”, the US Dollar has lost about 90% of its value.

              eg: If an economy could be sustained simply by having the government “hire” everyone and pay them with the money it prints, how long do you really thing that would work?

              Ans: Not long. that was the former Soviet Union, and the Only reason it last its approx. 40 years is that it was enourmously well endowed with natural resources and did export some products.

              So what is coming our way?

              As the economy crashes, people will scramble to get “money” anyway they can, hence the “firesale” mentality and the ensuing Deflationary effect.

              As scarcity starts to set in, prices quickly escalate from to much paper, and not enough goods.

              Once privation starts to effect people, they will no longer except even large denominations of “pretty paper” and prefer something with real, tangible value.

              This is where Gold, Silver and other hard assets become king, and cash secondary.

              Time line?

              As I said above, the Global Elites that are making the decisions as to how and when to fuck all of humanity over are not being nice enough to let me see their schedules, so we can only infer at best, and watch both the controlled Mass-Media, and the underground news sources to get our finger on the pulse of what is really happening.

              Of course people like Rich believe that serious changes are NOT coming, and that this current set of circumstances will simply vibrate in this range like a tuning fork.

              Rich doesn’t get that there is only 1 of 3 possibilities here:

              1) Circumstances are going to get better. – Not possible since NONE of the underlying systemic issues have been corrected in anyway. (see my above explanation of some of the systemic issues)

              2) Circumstances will remain approximately the same. – Not possible since NONE of the underlying systemic issues have been corrected in anyway. (see my above explanation of the some of the systemic issues)

              3) Circumstances will get worse,… far worse. – This is the only possible outcome. Given the raw view of the problems, some of which I describe above, our entire political, Economic, Financial, Judicial and Societal structures have been far to distorted, corrupted and bloated way beyound the ability of being repairable.

              The only solution for the US:

              1) Get Rid Of The Corruption: Abolish our Treasonous US Federal Government and ALL its criminal agencies to the last. Let NOT a vestige of its former self remain to infect its replacement.

              2) New Government: Institute new guards for our future security based on the framework provided by our Founding Fathers,… The US Consitution.

              3) Memorialize Our Folley: Fence off and burn down Washington DC. LEAVE IT… as a shattered ruins to remind ALL future generations to NEVER, EVER allow the Federal Gov’t to become a Criminal, Despotic, Treasonous or Imperialest Agency Of Destruction again.

              4) Get rid of the UN, bulldoze that site to the ground, and build our new US Captial on the FORMER site of the UN, back in NY, and resotre it as the Cultural and financial center of the world.

              5) Arrest, Try, Convict and Execute all the Traitors within, and outside our Treasonous Gov’t that carried out 9/11, including those that failed to hold those accountable afterwards, and those that helped coverup the crimes of the Traitors that planned, organized, communicated and executed any portion of the Greatest Crime In Human History.

              6) Let statues of these morally bankrupt bags of filth be erected. Burned, pitted, with contorted faces and hunched over, be placed at the gates to the shattered and desolate remnents of Washington DC, forever proclaiming their family names for all the world to see,… as TRAITORS.

              If we do anythng less,… than by definition we HAVE DONE LESS, which is guaranteed to be insufficient to bring about the magnitude of changes needed to restore our country.

              People will not like the notion of such strong measures, but failure to recognize our peril, and the need for corrective actions of this magnitude is to sign our own epitaph.

              Only COMPLETE and SWEEPING eradication of the disease called The US Federal Government and Washington DC can cleanse the American body of this infection and allow the broad chest of Freedom & Liberty to breath deeply once again.

              I Quote the greatest expression of Freedom ever written:

              “Accordingly, all experience hath shown, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed.

              But, when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same object, evinces a design to reduce them under absolute despotism, it is their right, IT IS THEIR DUTY, to throw off such government and to provide new guards for their future security.”

              Thomas Jefferson – Declaration Of Independence – Latter Portion Of 2nd Paragraph – Empahsis Added.

              We have LONG passed the point of “abuses and usurpations” as the Treasonous US Federal Gov’t is now determined to reducing ALL Americans to living under its “absolute Despotism”.

              Are Despotism and Tyranny the gift that Americans wish to leave to their posterity?

              I know that I don’t.

              JD – US Marines – Fighting to save America,… again.

            • US Marines…Brother Infantryman I am [Army type–one each]

              I hear ya loud and clear. This situation is much like cancer surgery no? If you leave some of the malignancy behind it will replicate and once again become a menace to the body.

              Our problem then resides in the “tipping point” at a time when the situation becomes untenable by just giving away money or credits to the people or institutions that still grudgingly grease the skids of this economy.
              When is enough…enough?

              I stand before you “that guy.” Fought for my country, raised [raising] a couple of kids, career in the fire service…the full Monty. Do I want to lose it all and once again leave my family to fight on the battlefields of my ancestors?

              I have been doing a lot of reading about the civil war lately and I think I now realize the sad predicament those brave and illustrious leaders felt.

              Lee…Remarkably sad and tired of the war that he thought would last just months.

              Chamberland…Dutiful teacher and thinker who fought himself to find a real reason for the carnage.

              Longstreet…Knew the result of the charge at Gettysburg yet his sense of duty and honor to Lee overrode his courage to stop it.

              Must we do this again?

              I fear the hallowed ground that once absorbed the blood of our forefathers will find itself nourished again.

              Sigh…If ignorance is bliss then knowledge is a heavy burden. I find solace in the writings of our founding fathers too…if not me who? If not now when?


            • I want to direct my comment to US Marine. We know what is going on and who is doing it to us; why don’t we do something? The political system is too far gone, so it’s going to take patriots to take back this country and revive the Constitution. Then we should hold every one of the traitors accountable. I had a belly full of this!

              Ready to go!

          • Well, if you believe what you say is true ~ TREASON was committed & military members take a oath as do law enforcement people to defend America against enemies both FOREIGN & DOMESTIC ~ obviously the military is not doing its’ job or has it lived up to its’ OATH…!!!…

            • So true my friend, I just hoped my days of combat were over.

              “It is well that war is so terrible — lest we should grow too fond of it.” Robert E Lee.

            • Hi Natioanl Security 4 US.

              Yes,… that is absolutely correct.

              Those people both inside and outside our government (but are US citizens) have committed Treason.

              The people who are tasked with ensuring that kind act does not occur, thru their negligence, have committed Treason.

              The people who should have held all those responsible accountable have committed Treason.

              The mechanism thru which this is being done is explainable with techniques well understood such as: Cognative Dissonance, The Peer Group Effect (See: Stanely Millgram Experiments), Coercion, Threats, Bribery, Avarice and simple Pyschotic Delusion Of Grandeur, whether by some two-bit beaurocrat in some obscure governmental office or Wealthy Elite who find it their “painful Duty” to subjucate all of mankind for our “own good”.

              The Fundamental Basis of the US Constitution is the Sovereign Rights of The Individual. The State Exists to safe guard those rights.

              This has been completely perverted and twisted so that now the actions and defacto arguments presented are that the basis of the US Constitution is the sovereign right of the STATE exceeds the protection of the individual, and the individual exists to serve the state (This was the basis for Nazi-ism, Facisism, Communism, etc).

              This is called Subjugation and Oppression, the polite terms for slavery.

              There have been some who have tried to expose the Criminal US Federal Government, and have died under “mysterious” reasons,… or suddenly committed “suicide”, even after some of these people stated publicly they have NO intention of committing suicide and are in perfect health.

              The general public is not being informed of this treason via the Mass-Media because it is now completely dominated and controlled by the very people, organzations and government is should be exposing.

              The Mass-Media is no longer the “Free Press”. We should instead call it what it now actually is: “The Ministry Of Proganda”

              Most people in this country have little clue to what is really going on. This is due to two primary drivers:

              1) The physcotic power brokers in this country have been very successful in employing the techniques of decepttion and ruse.

              2) Americans have suffered from the classic “Affluence Effect”, which makes people lazy, withdrawn, self-centered and oblivious.

              There is a way to break this cycle, which I have tried to communicate to politically or financially influential persons, but have not received any response of interest.
              Such is the concern of people while their favorite TV show is on, their fridge has some food in it, and gas tank in their car is at least half full.

              If you know someone, or a group that is interested in actually trying to stop the coming slavery, please let me know who and how to contact them.

              Thank you – JD – US Marines

          • Dammit USMarines

            You sounded so reasonable until you started dumping on Israel and saying 9-11 was an inside job. All of you Ron Paul people need to realize that your anti-semitic rhetoric (and 9-11 Truther stuff) really puts you on the fringe. Let go of those two things and you could gain mainstream acceptance.

            -Boss Hogg

            • Boss Hogg, you sounded so reasonable until you started supporting Israel and ignoring all the facts that points to 911 as being an inside job. All of you non Ron Paul people need to wake up and realize that your denial of the obvious really makes you look like you have no idea about what’s going on! Pull your head out of the sand and maybe you could join us here on the fringe.

        • Jim: Neither hyperinflation nor deflation. Its inflation by a thousand cuts, no matter how many dollars must be printed to achieve it. 🙂 Plan on inflation that pushes demand for goods, services, and employment.

          Deflation is chaos, war, shortages. The PTB do not make any money with deflation, and may lose their power.

          Inflation by a thousand cuts.

          • durango kidd wrote, “Deflation is chaos, war, shortages.”

            Yeah, pull another rabbit out of your hat. That’s exactly what the Central Bankers are saying too, but it’s not true.

            Lower prices are what’s needed.

            Lower prices benefit Americans and everyone else, except speculators and Central Bankers, but that is what they get.

            Shortages are brought about by price controls from goberment, and things like drought.

            War is the same, brought about by goberment.

            Deflation is a good and necessary thing.

            Also, due to the devastation that results, it takes a sad sack to add a smiley face onto the end of this sentence, “Its inflation by a thousand cuts, no matter how many dollars must be printed to achieve it. :-)”

            • Clark, Deflation does not mean lowering of prices, it means contraction of the money supply. Lower prices are often a side effect of deflation, but effectively it will NOT help people afford their necessities as it will be that much harder to acquire money in the first place.

            • Deflation is a good thing? Tell that to the Japanese.

              Deflation negatively affects output and employment. If you have a mortgage on your house, it kills you as a debtor too. How many of us own our homes outright? Hopefully you do if you’re in your late 50s or early 60s, but younger folk with a house get killed in a deflationary economy.

              Clark, please take a few econ classes and get back to me.


            • Clark; Sad Sack Here! The smiley face was for the irony within my statement which obviously went right over your head, due to your lack of economic knowledge. ($18 trillion dollars printed over the past 2.5 years, and NO hyper inflation yet.)

              Shortages ARE brought about by price controls imposed by governments, however that is an artificial mechanism.

              DEFLATION is a natural market phenomena that will generate shortages and lower prices in a continuing downward spiral that is worse that hyper-inflation; but these “lower prices” which YOU desire (probably because you have neither the education or skills to get a job and therefore have no money) will destroy whats left of the American middle class.

              This is best exampled by the homeowners with mortagages much higher than the value (read: lower prices) of their homes.

              Think of deflation (lower prices) as too few dollars chasing too many goods, thus demand drops because no one has the money to buy anything, therefore there is no reason to make anything, therefore those with money see no reason to spend money on plant, equipment, salaries, and wages, so people become unemployed. (Think the Great Depression).

              Today, corporations and banks are LOADED with money. If deflation becomes the norm rather than inflation, the average person will not have any money (like you); but the rich will still be able to buy food and whatever else they want, and the rest of the middle class will be ravaged by the chaos that will follow.

              Housing prices will continue to drop, more people will lose their jobs, therefore more people will not be able to make their mortgage, therefore there will be more foreclosures, more homeless, and this contagion will spread until there is action by government or revolution by the masses.

              And one more thing … There won’t be anymore FREE TRADE either, sorry Clark!

              I vote for a little inflation, even a little double digit inflation. Here’s a smiley face for YOU Clark: 🙂

            • Mal Reynolds, the Japanese are doing ok. Deflation isn’t destroying them. Ask them. They seem to be doing ok.

              People who want to buy a house – Now – are ok with deflation. It’s what’s needed.

              House prices Need to get back in line with incomes. Only
              bankers, politicians and speculators disagree.

              People like stv don’t understand, a contraction of the money supply does equal a lowering of prices.

              Mal Reynolds, please check out a few articles and get back with us after you have read a bit more than what your goberment puts in front of your face.

        • Deflation first then hyperinflation second.


        • Hey tony ……if I had a half a penny for every time I heard this or that was the big one I would make bill gates look poor ! This is all a scam and I guess only I am beginning to see through it . If any of these people make money off this then they have an agenda to keep you believing . If this collapse even does happen it will be at least 10 years out so go out and enjoy life more . I no longer FEAR any of this crap any more …..if the market drops 700 points now , I don’t flinch or worry like I used to because I know that it will rebound !

          • If you are so sure nothing is going to happen, then you have nothing to worry about,, nothing to do but just sit back and watch. Just laugh at all those foolish preppers as they buy their precious metals, food, and weapons. Have a good laugh at their expense. They must be crazy to do all this.
            you better pray you’re right, because you’re betting your life on it. If the preppers are wrong, they’ve just got some extra supplies. If you’re wrong, it’s curtains for you and your family.
            I hope you thought your strategy through.

            • obviously greaseman you havent been paying attention nor do you read and thats exactly why people like you are so easily duped !! dont you worry about what i have because i have been in this game far longer than you and i have been prepared since 2008 so dont tell me but now i see through the veil of deceipt and lies on both sides !!

            • Don’t worry about Rich, greaseman. Darwin has this one covered.

            • They just figure since prepping is becoming mainstream, they’ll use us to stimulate the economy lol.


          • Rich, do you have a family? Gambling with your kids’ lives too?
            I could care less if the market drops 700 points. But there are things in the world TO fear. From the tone of your posts, it seems like you think us preppers WANT societal collapse, when the opposite is true. I hope and pray you’re right. But I’ll go ahead and have a back-up plan too.
            Net Ranger, for the record, I wasted five minutes of my life responding to Rich. Sorry, he got to me too.

            Have a great day,

            • UNfortunately i DO believe that many of you do want a collapse based upon many comments and people believing in much of this crap…….i will see your guys comments on here 2 years from now and they will all sound the same !!…….GET READY….ITS COMING AND MY FAVORITE ………..SOON !!!! hahahahahahah

            • Please, please PUH-LEASE STOP responding to Rich…no matter what he says….DON’T respond!! He’s like the bully in the school yard, always taunting someone…if everyone just walks past the bully, eventually he WILL go find someone else to antagonize…so everyone repeat after me “Rich…Rich who”??

          • The current (fraudulent) monetary system was DESIGNED to last about 100 years and then collapse. Fed Reserve legislation was enacted in 1913 with a hundred year charter. Do the math. You do not have 10 years. It is happening now. Maybe, just MAYBE we have 6-8 months before EVERYBODY feels it.
            But I agree in one regard… I no longer fear monetary collapse. I look forward to it. Fiat currency has conditioned the public to accept an infinite growth imperative. Commerce has to grow, therefore money supplies have to grow, followed by populations, agriculture, energy drilling, etc. However, the EARTH is not growing at a commensurate rate. This is a problem. Ending centralized fiat money, going back to local economies and barter is the solution.

            • THE FED ENDS ON 12/21/2012

          • That’s right, Rich. America is a wealthy country. Everyone is employed. The dollar is strong. We have no debt. We have a strong industrial base. We’re as unsinkable as the Titanic.

            • thats not what im saying DUMBASS…….reread my comments…..what im saying is that it will take at least 10 years for this to unfold entirely if it even does !!! you have plenty of time….its not imminent like they want you to believe !!

        • Something else is happening this month on the 26th or 27th according to the word on the street.

      3. Denninger is a teabagger dumbass. ALL Congressional Republicans need to be out looking for jobs. Show Americans exactly where the Republican tax cuts have created jobs. Take Faux News, take the ACORN pimp and prostitute, and show exactly where the jobs are. If Republicans can’t, they need to be called liars, to their face, starting with Karl Denninger.

        Denninger got all up in the air about the “birth certificate.” Note that when the Long Form finally came from Hawaii, 2 paper copies, Faux News and the Republicans got a one-finger salute. They didn’t receive a paper copy, they got the same information a 10 year old with a computer got: a bunch of pixels from the Associate Press, and that’s all. I looked Denninger’s “analysis.” His head is buried up his rear. An entire political party in the US has failed to come up with jack that will actually stand up in court, using their deepest pockets and their best legal minds.

        Mitch McConnell is the person blocking term limits in the Senate. Why haven’t Denninger, Rush Limbaugh, Chris Christy used their combined weight to bust Mitch? Because they don’t want small government, that’s why.

        • Green eggs & ham lil sam.

          • Yippee… he’s baaaaack !!! TARGET practice !

            • I won’t waste my ammo!

        • Sam, both Republicans and Democrats have lied to you. Both have robbed our country and taken corporate bribes. They are completely the same. But it is too late for this, too late to blame anyone. Quickly prepare while you still can, take care of your loved ones.

          • you said it quite nicely. And it really is that simple. there isn’t anymore time to repair the situation. get ready because the seas are about to get real rough. I don’t know how many more signs and signals we are going to get that everything is about to collapse–but it won’t be many more.

          • So very true….

        • Which taking all these points together…what DO they know that we don’t???

          Inquiring minds NEED to know…soon.

        • lil libtar. What is worse than a dirty republican that know’s the truth, and that’s a libtard.

        • Prepare for HELL ON EARTH!!!

          Its all over folks…

          We are entering into the Greatest Depression.

          People roaming the streets looking for a packet of old Taco Bell hot sauce to spread on a piece of old moldy bread..

          Bodies stacked two stories high in the streets…

          • Total HELL on earth, you all goin get a taste of Satans kingdom

            • Apparently it comes with Taco Bell hot sauce.

        • You mean the long form birth certificate printed with an electronic printer that did not yet exist at the time of “Obama’s” birth? You mean that long form birth certificate. Don’t waste my time.

          • Don’t forget that the CIA traveled back in time to 1961 in a Delorean to alter Honolulu’s two biggest newspapers to list Obama’s birth announcement.

            • It still doesn’t change the fact that the characters on the birth certificate were printed with technology that did not exist at the time of Obama’s birth. Period. End of story. Did the hospital where he was “born” steal the Delorean and travel forward in time to bring back a printer from the future? Furthermore, I don’t care what the CIA owns or doesn’t own, the birth certificate is not legitimate on it’s face.

          • On the back of the birth certificate it says “property of kinkos”!!!!LOL

        • Are you saying the Republican Party has tried to get Obama into court because he is not eligible to assume the office of POTUS due to Article Two, Section one, of the US Constitution?


          I call BS

        • Sam, did you see the man that came forward and said he created the long form certificate, then uploaded it to the internet to show people how easy it is to fake something like that, and that someone in Washington found it and posted it to the Obama page as if it were real? The hospital wasn’t even named the name listed on the long form certificate until YEARS later when it sold and was taken over by the new place with the new name, nor were “black” people listed as “African American” back then as it lists Obama on the certificate. Back when Obama was born, no one had even heard of the PC term of “African American”. Those are some prettyu serious mistakes that some dumb ass in Washington didn’t notice. The guy has the actual computer files with the dates the files were created that WILL be used as evidence in court IF the case ever gets there with all of the liberal judges covering Obama’s ass and “privacy” as they statd last time. Maybe murderers and countefitters should not be charged either because it invades their privacy too? The case IS fuiled and will be looked into again, so hold your horses on dubbing all of that a fake before you give anyone anymore one finger salutes.

          And as a busines owner (several successful businesses since 1979 still IN business), show me where taxing businesses more creates jobs? I can tell you this as simple as it can be, if I am taxed ANY more, I am laying off an employee or two because we can not afford any more taxes or California red tape, insurances, license fees, OSHA fees, Workmans comp fees, etc. If we weren’t charged up the whazoo so much already, I could afford to hire more people, but overhead costs are killing us and we (like many businesses have already done) are considering moving to either another state or going with imported items and services. Does THAT sound like it is creating any more jobs than lowering taxes? You OBVIOUSLY don’t own a business, or maybe you’re like our so-called “commander in chief” who’s never even held a real a job in his life! Do I think rich people should pay their fair share? Sure. I like the idea of a fair tax system, but taxing businesses more and creating more regulations and red tape will NOT create any more jobs. Cutting our overhead, red tape and expenses sure as hell will though. Why is that SO hard for you and all of the other democrat / socialists to understand?

      4. Sam, you don’t know jack! If you had any balls you’d do the basic research which would prove that we have an undocumented illegal in the White House. Go back to your DNC handlers and suck on a turd, jackass!

        • Bravo!

        • This is correct…a top Document Forensic Specialist, looked at the new certificate, and said not only is it a fake…but it was as if a child made it…that it was the worst of the worst of fakes..

          Bless Barry’s Little heart… He means well…. 🙂

        • Yea what Zorro say’s !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

      5. It will be glorious. (said the Romulan Captain)

      6. Lil Sammy lives under a rock and one day the big bad wolf (the gov) is going to get him too.

      7. Do humans taste like chicken? Readily available supply in times of crisis.

      8. Food and oil prices will rise. Wages may stagnate but more likely go down as more people compete for fewer and fewer jobs. I assume luxuries will drop in price due to a significantly lowered demand but the necessities of food and oil will climb. Natural gas is a wild card and it may be a major contributor to some price stabilization and real job creation. Methane can be converted to fertilizer and with some infrastructure a motor fuel. Due to the relatively new fracking technology the US (and many other nations such as Poland) should reap rich rewards.

        Regarding an economic collapse I believe WW3 (or at least wars in which the majors are somewhat involved) would come right after it. There are too many nations too well armed not to literally steal from their neighbor’s. In an upside down world help may not be arriving as too many nations have too many problems of their own to assist anyone else.

        Everyone is thinking local to national. The international situation does not look too good either.

        • I agree with Kevin. If there is a total worldwide economic collapse we just may see mushroom clouds.There are theory’s out there that three world wars have been planed by the world elite’s, With two down and one to go. What a good way to purge the Earth of us, the great unwashed and all of our need’s. This would be evil at it’s best. or worse.

      9. An accurate translation of today’s papal speech:

        First Things First, The Pope Reports to the Kahal in Germany

        See how [anti]Pope Benedict XVI serves those named by Jesus in Apocalypse 3:9—all quite relevant to understanding their subversion of all that is good.

      10. of course they will bring us to war. that’s all they know how to do.

      11. Sam said that Denninger is a teabagger. Uh, no he isn’t! Denninger VOTED FOR OBAMA and encouraged everyone to do the same. The only thing Denninger is suffering from is voters remorse. Too late now! He can scream all he wants to, and I wouldn’t gives a rats ass about what he says. He has no credibility.

        • Goldenfoxx wrote, “The only thing Denninger is suffering from is voters remorse. Too late now! He can scream all he wants to,”

          Well, better late than never, at least he realizes his misplaced trust.

          Denninger wrote, “It appears that I am not the only person who has figured out that we got “change” all right. But the change we got wasn’t the change we voted for.”

          Also, his political choice is not quite the same as his economic perspective.

          At any rate, who could disagree with this:

          Denninger wrote, “Stop the madness.”

      12. If the we get hit with hyper inflation I’ll still go to work in the morning. If its deflation I’ll still go to work in the morning. If the Dow and the dollar collapse tomorrow, I’ll still go to work the next day. I’ll continue the same until my customers don’t need me any longer. When that happens I’ll re-invent myself and continue to make a living. There is that possibility that what I venture in next will make me wealthier and give me greater satisfaction regardless. That’s what makes this country still the greatest. We just need to clean up the clutter(politicians and banksters) to keep us from tripping up, square away our own priorities so we see our destiny clearer and be honest with ourselves.

        • +1 Spot on. Exactly right.

          Time to go to work.

          Have a great day,

        • Excellent!

          I’ve reinvented myself many times! Some have been more successful than others but the core idea is the same:

          DON’T GIVE UP!!!

      13. Doom. They say it as if it were a bad thing.

        • It just rings hollow without “gloom.”

          • Doom and gloom soon.

      14. why would you have to pay your bills or house if the banks close?? PLEASE someone answer this why we would. Please would really like to know, how about your car. nobody will be comming for it if its gets that bad.

        • Eric, I was thinking like that as I read here daily—holding off converting from a 250 gallon tank to a 500 gallon tank and fill up–just hold on to the money a little longer–see what’s happening tomorrow???
          Well, today, I read lots of things that made me leave the computer and take care of business.
          I think the enlightened here are talking about a bank holiday..that in other countries or other times was simply to change currency. Am I even close, economist gurus??

          • Banks will reopen..if there are any bankers alive..joke, just a joke.

        • Read up on the collapse of Argentina in 2001. There’s a book called Modern Survival Manual which is the first hand account of someone that live through it. Point is that not every bank will collapse. Those that do will have their assets bought and someone else will own your house/car. This may happen 10 times in a month, and may take them 6 months when the dust clears to sort it out but the notion that you are just going to get a free house and car out of the deal is an assumption that a lot of people seem to have. With a sudden and immediate collapse you may get a few months where chaos give you breathing room but this isn’t the stone age, people will track you down and banks whoever, whenever “they” end up being (most likely nationalized) will be on you for payment. Who do you think will have the most dangerous and busy job post collapse? Repo men.

      15. BE the show. over the past years you’ve prepped;learned new skills;practiced old can adapt,improvise; and overcome.There is a world of hurt coming for the sheeple. You people ai’nt sheeple! Pray for their pain to be light. Sleep well my friends; we are the center and we will hold; for family and friends we will HOLD.who said “praise god and pass the ammunition”?

        • “Praise the Lord and Pass the Ammunition” from WWI but not sure of author.

          • US NAVY Catholic Priest who was giving mass during the bombing of pearl harbor! He won the bronze star I think for helping out out the fires on the Utah as they beached it. Naval history in boot camp was in 91. He also passed out 40mm anti aircraft ammunition to the gun crews.

        • “praise the Lord and pass the ammunition”—The Dixie Chicks (recently). I gave up looking for signs when
          i realized that this isn’t a natural occurrence, and we have no way of anticipating madmen…I’m just doing what I have to, NOW.

      16. yeah i hate being an optimist.

      17. Wow. Delr actually gave me a moment of pause – that really was an outstanding thought.

      18. DK! Hey man, if you didn’t see it as a reply I had a question about derivitaves. I know they’re real complex but aren’t theyjust highly leveraged bets? I hear numbers like $600 trillion dollars. Possibly double that..$1,200,000,000,000,000.00 How much money is that? Is it enough to feed Michael Moore? Seems like a bunch plus a shitload to poor old me. Is a 4% market drop enough to make margin calls go out? Can you explain derivatives? My tired old mind would like to know.

        • Where are you hearing $600 trillion dollars in derivatives?
          And are they specifying Real Estate Credit Default Swaps or are they guessing the market size of All types of derivatives?

          $600 trillion in mortgage CDS does not make sense. If the entire population of the US bought a $300,000 house yesterday and defaulted today, that would ‘only’ be a liability of $96 trillion.

          There is a BIG difference between CDS vs a regular insurance policy. That is someone without an interest in the underling loan can purchase ‘protection’ against it.

          So, as a taypayer, are you paying off the original defaulted mortgage of a dead beat as well as all the CDS claims made by the Wall Street boyz?

        • Plain Old American, re-check.

      19. We’ve known for decades that our systems were unsustainable. This is not a new revelation. The real question is how do we fix the mess. We have to start thinking for ourselves and doing things again. Today the people act like stupid lazy sheep.

        Memo to America: Stop waiting for Democrats and Republicans to save you. It’s bad
        for your health and your future. Can’t you tell?

        “WAKE UP PEOPLE!”
        Read “Common Sense 3.1” at ( )

      20. Let me tell you this much my friends. The corp is prepared and the corp is going to make sure you pay for not being prepared! The corp will corporatize all of the corporate corporations and corp out…..!!!

        Ahhhh, CORP out!
        Le CORP, c’est chic
        CORP out!
        Ahhhh, CORP out!
        Le CORP, c’est chic
        CORP out!

        Have you heard about the new fiat money craze?
        Listen to us, I’m sure you’ll be amazed
        Big fun to be had by everyone
        It’s up to you, it surely can be done!
        Young and old are doing it, I’m told
        Just one try, and you too will be sold
        It’s called Le CORP, they’re doing it night and day
        Allow us, we’ll show you the way

        Ahhhh, CORP out
        Le CORP, c’est chic
        CORP out
        Ahhhh, CORP out
        Le CORP, c’est chic
        CORP out

        All that pressure got you down?
        Has your head spinning all around
        Feel the rhythm, check the ride
        Come on along and have a real good time
        Like the days of stomping at the Federal Reserve
        Now we CORP, oh what a joy
        Just come on down, to wall street
        Find a spot out on the trader floor

        Ahhhh, CORP out
        Le CORP, c’est chic
        CORP out
        Ahhhh, CORP out
        Le Corp, c’est chic
        CORP out

        Now CORP!

        I said CORP!

        Now CORP OUT!

        Get your CORP on!

      21. POA: I must have missed it. Been out to dinner. Again, I am not a financial expert, but I will try to explain “derivatives” based upon the little bit I know about them.

        Technically, they are called “credit default swaps” and are perceived as “insurance” against loss on a particularly loan. The major commercial banks hold 95% of all CDS between them. The other 5% is probably held by insurance companies or pension funds. I saw the total at one time but forget what it was now. It is HUGE. And its a Ponzi scheme to increase their fees.

        Whether the aggregate total it is enough to keep Michael Moore in pizza for life, or not, is a question way above my pay grade! 🙂

        They are used in a number of ways, but basically they are a credit enhancement tool, meaning if Bank A doesn’t like the level of credit (worthiness) that a particular borrower has, they obtain a “guarantee” from another lender, Bank B who “guarantees” to buy the loan amount from the first lender if the borrower defaults.

        However in this scenario, Bank B does nothing and puts no money up, nor sets any aside like say a life insurance company would do under an expectation of having to pay out death benefits to beneficiaries. It just collects the fee and premiums for adding its credit worthiness to the original loan. Sweet huh?

        As you might imagine with 95% of all “derivatives” owned by the major banks, this process is rather incestuous.

        On one hand it is a way to lower their “risk” to a particular borrower, for the benefit of the credit rating agencies (read moody’s , fitch, etc), maintain the “credit worthiness” of there own portfolio, and yet make loans to less than perfect credit borrowers: all for a premium fee of course.

        Does that answer your question?

        The 4% market drop is really a question for a trader or stockbroker. There are some here. I don’t do either so I am not current on margin call requirements. They probably differ from one market to the next and one brokerage firm to the next depending upon your relationship to them, their experience with you, and your credit worthiness.

        Then of course there is always the SEC and I have no idea what the latest requirement is from them, as they raise margin limits from time to time; like for oil futures.

        • POA: The 4% “market drop”, wherever that was, applies to a specific market index and not any particular stock. The margin call itself would be applied to a particular stock investment. That is my understanding for what it is worth to you.

        • Thanks.

      22. The good news is the price of gasoline is going down some. The bad news is I still live in the county with the highest priced gas because of taxes (Cook Co. Il.). Better news is I’m leaving in 3 days.

        • HS: Moving to NYC?

          • Northern AZ.

            • Where men are men and sheep are scared.

            • That was Baa-Baaaa-Baad 🙂

            • HS: Why Northern Arizona? Whats the attraction?

            • Hey HC, welcome to my part of the country. Without divulging exactly where, where? LOL. I can’t move any further north without going into Utah.

            • Oops HS!

        • I saw that! Glad I didn’t refill my almost empty barrel to be freshened yet. $3.35 for regular here.

      23. don’t forget about duct tape in the prepping, the cure all to your household fixes…

        • Absolutely.

          You know the rules…If it moves and shouldn’t-use duct tape. If it doesn’t move but should- squirt it with WD-40.


      25. Good thing Michelle-Marie Antoinette Obama is on yet ANOTHER multi-million dollar vacation. I think this time she rented the city of Barcelona, or was it the country of Lichtenstein, for a month, for her and her ACORN cronies

      26. The fed’s TWIST is deflationary. I expect precious metals and fuel to drop perhaps 50%. Just in time to re-elect obama. Then in 2013 some other fed manuever will instigate hyperinflation and it will be sudden and unbelievable. This should be a big dip. I will be buying all the way down(metals, fuels, food, supplies, medical, etc)because calling the bottom will be impossible. And I will continue to foster relationships will people like me. It’s the only way to get any sleep. I feel sorry for people in the stock market.

      27. No,I have not taken the last couple of years to prepare. Never had the money and I just woke up. Started to prepare a few months ago and taking it day by day.

        • I told a young lady yesterday with small children; she does work; if nothing else, go every week and buy ramen noodles and rice!!!!

        • I don’t have tons of money but I do have tons of food.

          Once you build a good basic stockpile and begin eating from that, you will find you are just replenishing your stockpile. On regular weekly groceries I spend about $20, if that. Then I dump $40-60 into stockpile food, depending on the sales that week.

          Just be sure to buy things you eat – don’t buy a bunch of MREs and crazy stuff like that.

          Don’t worry – you’ve got time. 🙂

          • Daisy – I do the same thing. I make sure and rotate my food and only stockpile stuff I’ll eat and be satisfied with.

            Now I know a lot of people will scoff at one of my preps, but it’s spam. I can eat a spam sandwich just by opening up the can without cooking it. I know a lot of people say yuck, but Hawaiians lived on it during WW2 when meat was rationed. You can go to any breakfast nook in Hawaii and eat spam and eggs.

            I don’t have that kind of money to buy gold. I cannot eat gold. I know a lot of people on here say buy gold and silver, but it’s too late IMO to buy gold. It’s too damn high. Silver, maybe?

            But since I find a lot of my preps I keep my mouth shut to even close friends and neighbors. They don’t know what I have or what I don’t have.

            Loose lips sink ships my grandma used to always say.

            • Annie – I definitely agree on the “lips sealed” theory. Only a couple of close friends (like-minded) have any idea of the amount of preps we have in our little apartment!

      28. What about those who live alone? How is the home going to stay safe? If they have prepared in any way, how will those preps stay safe while away at work?

        • Always be prepared………

        • Instal a security system. Get the right service plan and the monitoring will pay for itself through insurance breaks. Hide your stuff. Make the really important shit in-accessible or move to a more secure location. Burglars are chicken shits and go for the easy targets. Make your property less attractive than those around you. Be pro-active cuz it doesn’t just happen to the other guy. Used systems are available as well. Just make sure and change all of the access codes. The things I keep in safe places are those that I MUST ALWAYS have. There are no gaurentees but no one with any grey matter keeps all of their goods in one place. Spread things around a bit.
          There isn’t enough room here to really help much. Do some looking online and move quickly. Secure your valuables first then look into a system. I made one from relays once that worked really good. Loud, but didn’t call a service. Opsec is very important. Try to maintain some level of awareness where ever you are.
          Best wishes

          • Burglars do go for easy targets. That’s why we have decoys. We bought fake gold & silver coins online and we have them stashed in an obvious hiding place – all labeled and everything to look official – lol! They’ll be surprised when they go to the pawn shop to sell them.

            We also have a state of the art security system. They’ll have to be pretty fast at nabbing things before the police show up.

            • I appreciate your answer, but I’m skeptical about the police showing up. In many cities, the police have declared there are some crimes they simply won’t respond to due to budget cuts in their department/lack of manpower. I’m beginnning to wonder if the police will do anything if my place were to be raided by thieves.

        • This is a good question and being in that category it’s something I’ve often thought about. Everything I’ve prepped for involved me being there. If I’m lucky, I’ll still have a job though this when many others won’t and resort to home invasions – most during the day of people that leave for work. What am I to do? Well, I’ve taken a few steps. My “prep room” that stores all my supplies has been hardened with a very strong door, reinforced jam with anti kick plates, upgraded locks, etc. You basically need a cutting torch to get it. In fact as crazy at it may seem, it’s harder to get in that room of my house than it is to get in my actual house. Things like money (cash) is stored in hidden safes (Ajax containers, hollow books, Google them). I guess my approach is if I have to leave and they break in, go ahead and take my DVD player and TV, those aren’t important, but things that my life depends on are in the prep room. I’ve also started hinting around to friends who are not preppers that if things get bad they should come to my place. They wouldn’t be bringing supplies (not being preppers) but in return for sharing my supplies I’d get someone watching my house while I’m at work.

          I’d love to hear other options.

          • Arkaden – some excellent points you’ve made. I’ll remember what you’ve posted. You’ve given me some good ideas.

          • You’ve given me a couple good ideas. I’m going to get one of my basement doors replaced with something stronger. Also I’m of the mindset that an extra lock on a door is worth the trouble of carrying an extra key. That includes locking gas caps on the cars.

        • Wolfy?

      29. well , I dont know when, and im not positive on how its all going to go down..i dont think anyone has it nailed down to the brass tacks

        I feel I am better prepaired than most, if not over 60 to 70% of the walking dead out there.
        Pack daily, BOB’s always in the vehicle, have survival skills and a keen eye and mechanical and engineering skills in many trades (ive owned and run a heavy indutrial maint. buisness for 30 years) i can weld , braze, solder, cut bend..have archetectural knowledge and resource knowledge and water access, drawing abilities. and can make what i build in my mind., Mechanics of the engine and hydralic systems etc.. I have had to be very resourceful in the 30+ years of living this way and doing this job.Also..Tactical training, and not a whole lot of baggage
        Most of the wall street kids dont even know how to drive a car, let alone do anything but stand in front of a ticker tape to see if their life has crashed or is still on all 4’s..soon these types will be on their knees..and will have no general skills to get them thru whats coming
        I know the type..Ive met the type, I have this type of person in my family thru in-laws and such..clueless and not able to see whats going on around them or if they see it they are taking the “Bla, bla, bla, approach to the entire debacle, and thats fine but they wont have a pot to piss in when they pull the floor out..and its coming , or has it already started? I think we all know

        • Your background in industrial repair will make all the difference in the world. I don’t know about you but for me it was the challenge of being able to accomplish what seemed impossible to other folks. You have to think and be creative every day. It was a lot of fun.

          • I’m a woman, a heavy construction carpenter who has always done my own auto mechanic work, and my tool box rivals any auto shop. I can operate anything that moves, and I can do “household” things, like sew clothing and work with leather. My father was a survivalist who could walk into any field and come back carrying dinner. We have supplies stored up, including security measures.

            I think we are almost prepared.

      30. Dogs! Big dogs! I have great danes. Big loving idiots but very protective of my kids. My male tried to stop me from spanking one of my kids, he took hold of my arm and well… She didn’t get her butt paddled. He was being nice too.. I only have a bruise from where he got me. I’ve seen him bite through turkey backs like butter.

        • Be carefull.. I’ve raised dogs my whole life, my dad was a breeder of AKC Shepards. No matter his ( the dogs ) intention; if he interveined in such a thing; he does NOT view you as the Alpha Male.. a dog that will get to be at least 150lbs or more is NOT a dog that you do not want to have absolute control over..

          If he does not view you as the Alpha Male; it is logical to assume that he views himself as the Alpha Male.. personally, I would make it a priority to change his opinion and see signs of obvious submission to me..

        • I hope you’ve got good liability insurance. I’d recommend a million umbrella in case your dogs bite someone & they sue the crap out of you.

          • Somehow with what’s happening, the last of my worries would be litigation—when ‘whatever’ is going to happen, happens, there won’t be any courts..I hope.
            ‘Reset’…let’s push it…no more lawyers and liability suits…common sense is ‘the rule’.
            See a big great dane…don’t go near rule….common sense.

            • It’s gonna be a long time before the courts & legal systems go away.

              They will hold the govt together until they squeeze the last pitiful dime out of us. We will be starving & scared and govt employees will still be drawing fine, inflation adjusted salaries.

            • Great Danes….. Its whats for dinner…. tonight!

        • My big goofy golden retriever would lay down her life for me or my girls. She is the best security system I can think of. She’s sweet until someone tries to get in the house or approach one of us in a threatening manner. Then look out – teeth are bared and she is a snarling maniac. We even tested her with a male coworker bearing hot dogs. She would NOT let him into our house and would not back down, even when he was aggressive towards her.

          A dog that loves you is worth 10 highly pedigreed dogs.

      31. 🙂 Joke of the Day!!! 🙂

        A guy walked into the local welfare office to pick up his check.

        He marched straight up to the counter and said, “Hi. You know…., I just HATE drawing welfare. I’d really rather have a job.”

        The case worker behind the counter said, “Your timing is excellent. We just got a job opening from a very wealthy old man who wants a Chauffeur and bodyguard for his beautiful daughter. You’ll have to drive around in his 2011 Mercedes-Benz CL, and he will supply all of your clothes.

        Because of the long hours, meals will be provided. You’ll also be expected to escort the daughter on her overseas holiday trips.

        “This is rather awkward to say but you will also have, as part of your job, the assignment to satisfy her sexual urges as the daughter is in her mid-20’s and has a rather strong sex drive.”

        The guy, just plain wide-eyed, said, “You’re bullshittin’ me!”

        The case worker said, “Yeah, well … You started it”.

        • I ask the people that “phone” my business every week asking if I have any job openings if they had seen the ad in the newspaper or the sign on the front door. crickets……….awkward silence……….click……….my phone being hung up. They never give their name at the beginning of their greeting while asking me “How are you”.

        • BF: I liked that one. Cute. very cute.

        • SSSSPSPPPSPSPSTTTT!! Damn I just shot Coke out both of my nostrils.

        • brilliant. haha!

        • I recently asked my friend’s little girl what she wanted to
          be when she grows up. She said she wanted to be President
          some day. Both of her parents, liberal Democrats, were
          standing there, so I asked her, “If you were President, what
          would be the first thing you would do?”

          She replied, “I’d give food and houses to all the homeless
          people.” Her parents beamed with pride.

          “Wow…what a worthy goal.” I told her. “But you don’t have
          to wait until you’re President to do that. You can come over
          to my house and mow the lawn, pull weeds, and sweep my
          driveway, and I’ll pay you $50. Then I’ll take you over to
          the grocery store where the homeless guy hangs out, and you
          can give him the $50 to use toward food and a new house.”

          She thought that over for a few seconds, then she looked me
          straight in the eye and asked, “Why doesn’t the homeless guy
          just come over and do the work, and you can pay him the $50?”

          I said, “Welcome to the Republican Party.”

          Unfortunatly not the Rebublican Party anymore, but you get the drift.

          • AZREADY: Great story!

      32. my brother and sister are totally clueless. they are buying recreational items…boats, ski jest, ect. they both make more money than I do. my sister was indocrintated in college. they think they are set for life. pity me cause I’m a one income family. Niether one of them have built up any preps, have an single ounce of silver nor realize the price of living will double by the time they retire.

        but they have thier 401k’s and think they are set for life. Hmm, wonder will they will be willing to trade for food when the dollar collapses?

        • Same here, Rachel…same here!! My brother just leased a new car for his wife…for her 15 min drive to work!!! The “old” car was “starting” to give them problems, doncha know??!! But now he’s trying to talk my 73 yr old mother into a lease!! And she knows all about the coming collapse…I’ve been telling her for months, but she says it’s “too depressing” to talk about it!! I’m so frustrated!! I have four boys that I’m buying preps for so that they won’t go hungry…I can’t buy for my family too! I just wish they’d wake up before it’s to late!

      33. DK, dry climate and mama bear weather. 5000 feet altitude keeps it a little cooler in summer. I don’t mind cold weather if it’s dry. Pine forest and mountains, better scenery. Illinois doesn’t like gun owners. Arizona likes gun owners. Arizona gets my money.

        • HS: Where on the RIM are you heading?

          • Sounds like it’s somewhere around the Flagstaff area.

            • AZReady: 5000 Ft is along the RIM, Prescott to Globe. that covers a lot of ground. Flag is at more than 7500 feet. Afternoon temps now about 75 degrees.

              You in Paige or Colorado City? And if Colorado City how many wives do you have? 🙂

      34. Who in their right mind would go long and hold over the weekend.

        Purchase another 5 gal bucket of rice Franchecia and

      35. Southern Strumpet, you’re way ahead of most people. Just keep at it a little bit at a time.

      36. On Arizona….My wife loves the area between Flagstaff & Williams Arizona. If I called her now & said I had a job in Arizona….she would be packed & ready to go by the time I get home ! Beautiful country. The problem for us is that we have 3 horses….& hay was selling for over $10 a square bale when we were out there 3 years ago. At that time we were buying 1000# round bales here in Texas for $65 a bale. Last week we had to buy square bales at $10.50 a bale & they were ratioining them. Round bales are going for $125+ …if you can find them.
        Between the drought this year & the fires here locally..
        hay is going to have to be trucked in. I wonder what hay is selling for in Arizona now ? I had been wanting to keep the horses because thay are alternative transportation if fuel becomes scarce or too expensive.
        The 50# horse feed bags have doubled over the past year as well. Hope you enjoy your new location in Arizona. Everyone that we have met in Northern Arizona have been good down to earth folks.

        • Thank you. You might have to get one of those Swiss Army bikes. Any sturdy mountain bike will do. A friend of mine in western Montana has about 20 horses, but his well ran dry a couple years ago because they were having a long term draught. I don’t know if the situation got any better with this years flooding. There is no in between with weather.

          • drought.

        • RT1957: Perfect bugout location if you can weather the cold. And there is grass for the horses too. Gardening will require soil enhancements from the horsess. Two words for you:

          Dogtown Reservoir.

      37. I say buy, buy, buy. If things don’t turn around the money will be useless anyway.

      38. Thanks for support uncle omar. I feel that I need to help out my parents who have been very good to me but they are still in the dark. It is hard to acquire supplies on a meager wage.

      39. Can anyone explain why Gold and Silver are diving???

          • Thanks Mac!!!

          • I agree Mac… They will also figure out that Blue Chips pay bigger dividends than treasuries and yes commodities and blue chips will then soar. Right now is a flight to cash.

        • DM: Gold is in a technical retracement because it is overbought. It needed some consolidation which I expected and mentioned that here a couple of weeks ago when it hit $1800+/-, when folks thought that might be the push for $2,000 gold. It wasn’t

          I believe it may dip as low as $1200 oz eventually this year, (if the S doesn’t HTF and the creek don’t rise) although some technical anaylists believe that $1400 could be the low later this year, before a new run starts.

          A Greece default would push gold higher in the short term, and most folks will point to the uncertainty occuring now as rationale for higher prices; but if the EU shores up its banks ala FED doctrine, and after Greece defaults, that $1200 bottom could materialize as everyone takes a breath.

          Then its time to back up the truck. (Don’t wait for $1,000 Mac, I think that is wishful thinking. 🙂 )

          Once the EU has developed and implements a plan for its sovereign debt crisis, (and WE know the EU will emerge stronger from this crisis) which is now a bank crisis, and that organizational crisis has been resolved, look for even more global stimulus to push economic activity.

          Money to the banks to replace losses is not money in circulation. Is there a direct play out there on money ink?

          Additional stimulus measures beyond replacement of loss reserves will be taken to spark consumption. I expect special programs next year will be enacted to clear the number of existing forclosures that are being transferred to Fannie Mae, as the banks realize that they are not going to be able to maximize their profits on these assets by sitting on them.

          Fannie Mae is the dumping ground for the major US banks to clean their balance sheets of Residential REO’s.

          Read “fire sale for cash” for a fraction of the intrinsic value of these properties by Fannie Mae. Break open your piggy bank Clark, this will be your opportunity to buy at “lower prices”.

          I expect the GB’s to develop private investor funds to provide loans for these residential REO’s at the lower prices. The GB’s need to get this stuff off their books and a fire sale on residential REO’s would clean up the mess.

          It would also put investor cash back into the system that is sitting on the sidelines, and the loan returns under a special program like this would be higher than Treasuries and more profit to the GB’s.

          Remember its all about them, not US.

          Inflation by a thousand cuts and gold will resume its climb to much, much higher levels.

      40. Hey, Mac, here is a story to take your mind off all the gloom and doom for a bit. I admit I have taken prepping to an extreme. All my soap, shampoo, toothpaste and shaving cream are all in storage. I admit that I am filthy. My pubic hair reaches to my ankles. My beard is three feet long and is a tangled mess. I smell worse than rotting skunks in the hot sun. Anyway, I bring a woman home last night. I take her to my room. She lets out a howl as she smells my bed, which hasn’t been changed in 2 years. She sees the full length body stain on the mattress. She screams again, bolts out the door, jumps in her car and does a 400 foot burnout and disappears. My point? After the shtf, I hope women will become more “accepting”. Thank you.

        • Cousin It?

      41. These writers like Denninger cannot have it both ways, on the one hand, they say that the PPT runs the stock market, then they say that the stocks will crash…

      42. In a currency collapse why pay your mortage, what the hell will the bank or government do with with no one else able to purchase the asset…..the currency collapsed right! Only worry about the necessities of life expenses.

      43. The poster Rich needs to pull his head out of his ~ss. If he thinks that nothing bad will happen because all the warnings are just hysteria and hype, he is very gravely mistaken. Not only have I seen these bad events occur in other countries, I have been watching first-hand formerly civilised parts of Europe descend into riots and violent protests over the past year.

        It is really happening and it is really hurting people and their livelihoods. It is not a fantasy computer game or a ‘virtual’ matrix other world with Keanu Reeves acting as Cyber Lord.

      44. The crime in my town has gotten worse than usual lately. There have been more robberies and more shootings than we have ever had. And it will only get worse as the economy goes further south.

        • Look on the brite side. Target rich.

      45. Silver paper shares are falling, because they are tied to the market. Right now, the lowest price one can pay for a silver oz. is $40.00, and that is for one of the most inexpensive rounds. The divide between the paper price, and the real silver per oz., is different, this is because J.P. Morgan (banker) has sold thousands of times more paper shares than they have real silver to cover. When the price of paper shares goes above $40.00, JPM must cover the paper shares sold, when people want their real silver ozs. Because JPM does not have silver to cover, they offer cash premium for the client to take paper money. This is their way to make it appear as if there is more silver than there is, making the price per oz. lower, so that real silver price will stay lower for industrial uses. Hope this helps.

      46. We will still be talking about collapse on this site for years to come…lol.

      47. On th subject of theft…metals theft is becoming a real problem. I was working with a Guy from Cincinatti OH yesterday & he told me that in the past month or so there had been 3 criminal attacks to steal metals on their property. The first time they stole a 20 ft flat bed trailer on the property, loaded it up with metals &
        were gone. The 2nd time was more metal, & the 3rd time his son was working on his 49 Plymouth street rod over the weekend, & left some engine parts outside, near trhe car…and the following morning they were gone. Where I live 50 miles NW of Houston Texas, they are stealing AC units from business’s over the weekend when no one is there…and also AC units & wire out of unoccupied homes & business property. I have also heard that insurance companies are canceling homeowners insurance on empty houses that are on the market for sale. This happend to one guy who had insured the property for 10+ years while he lived there. After he moved & still had not been able to sell the house….& they canceled him. Said that they were taking too many large dollar losses from empty buildings. So…if you have a bug out building somewhere, be sure to have someone keeping a eye on it !
        Be Safe & invest in Metals…Gold, Silver, & Lead.
        Montgomery County, Texas

      48. Looks like they stopped raping the rooster, mauling the monkey, phucking with the fox. Cash only for the real deal?

      49. You people have no sense of humor at all.

      50. This can only mean one thing. This country is purposely coming to an end. Maybe the world as well.

      51. A question in regards to the link – what will you use to pay your monthly mortgage and bills if traditional currencies collapse or you lose your primary income stream?

        My mortgage is to be paid in USD. If I owe $40,000 pre-crash, pre-inflation, pre-shtf, will I not owe $40,000 USD post?

        Would a good hedge be to use precious metals to actually trade in for $40,000 USD, and just pay off the mortgage?

        What some are saying here, this could be only 4 ounces of gold or less.

        Banks cannot change my terms just because they **** where they eat, can they?

        • Thats the beauty of it. If you owe a balance, then that is what you owe no matter what the dollar is really worth.

      52. Sure hope you play baseball alot better than you post.

      53. The scary thing is, Ty Cobb was actually a lot like this poster.

      54. Looks like Rich has found a faithful audience for his ugly language and name-calling in this area of the community, too. Ladies and gentlemen, has anyone here ever heard of the concept of shunning? Well, I have and I think it’s about time for Rich to GET IGNORED. TOTALLY AND PERMANENTLY.


      56. Taco Bell hot sauce is, well, hotter than Hell!

      57. Hi Ty Cobb,

        Sounds interesting, it certainly would eliminate about 90% of the worlds problems.

        I do see some minor difficulties with implementing this.

        Any idea on how we might get from where we are now, to what you just described?

        Thanks – JD

      58. Blah blah, the PPT controls stocks.
        Blah blah, the stock market’s gonna crash.
        Which is it?
        It can’t be both

      59. the USD will be the only means to trade & unwind all the FOREX bets and all the Derivative papers…. (Swaps, etc etc…

        so i won’t expect the USD to hyper-inflate or deflate for at least 7 years, if not a decade more.

        The modern era Deutsch Mark will have more value than either the Euro or the USD, Sterling, Pound, etc
        but will not be used for the Derivatives Markets, that onus will remain with the USD, until finally those markets are treated as poison in the world community

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