By now most people are completely desensitized to stories involving North Korea. One can only hear about so many blustering threats, missile launches, and state sanctioned executions, before those incidents are no longer surprising. Over the years we’ve seen it all, and most folks don’t really pay much attention to what’s going on in the Hermit Kingdom. That’s unfortunate, because they’re not paying attention as the Trump administration inches towards war with North Korea.
The first definite sign that the current administration was going to take a different approach to North Korea, was when Secretary of State Rex Tillerson stated emphatically last month that “all options are on the table.”
“Let me be very clear. The policy of strategic patience has ended. We are exploring a new range of diplomatic, security and economic measures. All options are on the table,” Tillerson told reporters during a joint news conference with South Korean Foreign Minister Yun Byung-se on Friday.
“Certainly we do not want to, for things to get to military conflict,” Tillerson said.
However, he went on to say that “if they (North Korea) elevate the threat of their weapons program to a level that we believe requires action, then, that option’s on the table.”
He added that a “comprehensive set of capabilities” is being developed to deal with the country.
And at least one of those options is already in place. Before that interview even took place, US special forces were already training to decapitate the North Korean regime.
Despite that threat, North Korea has refused to back down on their nuclear program, and for good reason. Kim Jong-un’s regime believes that they won’t be safe from foreign invasion unless they have a nuclear tipped ICBM that can be launched at targets that are thousands of miles away.
The US government on the other hand, has taken a different position. Our government believes that North Korea can’t be trusted with that kind of military capability. In a sense both sides are correct, but clearly those opinions are diametrically opposed. Unless one side backs down, there will be war before North Korea demonstrates that it can launch a nuclear tipped ICBM.
And President Trump has tacitly admitted that he’s willing to go to war with North Korea. During a recent interview with Financial Times, he stated if China can’t or won’t reign in North Korea, then our government is willing to “act alone.”
POTOMAC FALLS, Va. (AP) — President Donald Trump says that the United States is prepared to act alone if China does not take a tougher stand against North Korea’s nuclear program.
Trump’s comments in an interview with the Financial Times come just days before he is set to host Chinese President Xi Jinping at his Mar-a-Lago estate in South Florida. The two are expected to discuss a number of issues, including North Korea, trade and territorial disputes in the South China Sea during their meeting on Thursday and Friday.
“Yes, we will talk about North Korea,” Trump told the newspaper for a story that appeared Sunday on its website. “And China has great influence over North Korea. And China will either decide to help us with North Korea, or they won’t. And if they do that will be very good for China, and if they don’t it won’t be good for anyone.”
Without China’s help, there can’t be any peaceful resolution with North Korea, because China is the closest thing to a friend that country has on the global stage. Unfortunately, there isn’t much of a chance that China is going to defang this regime anytime soon. If they could they would have done so a long time ago. They may enjoy having a communist buffer state between their capital and an American ally in the south, but they don’t want to live right next door to a certifiably insane regime with nuclear weapons.
I don’t think that China could ever convince North Korea to give up its nuclear program. Kim Jong-un saw what happened to countries like Libya and Iraq after they abandoned their WMD programs. And North Korea is probably just as afraid of regime change at the hands of China as they are of America, because China would prefer a buffer state that is much more obedient and prosperous (and you know, not armed with nukes that at the command of a lunatic). Even North Korea’s closest friend is kind of an enemy, and they need capable nukes to defend themselves from China as well.
So if China can’t convince them to give up their nukes, and the United States won’t tolerate a nuclear armed North Korea, then there’s only two possible outcomes. Either our government is going to blink in this standoff, or there’s going to be war.
I live in South Korea. There is NO WAY North Korea can, or will, EVER wage war against anyone!! This is all a staged agenda by the warmongers, the military industrial complex, the Jewish Zionist lemmings, who wage war for gain. This is about the USA extending its stragic imperialistic strongholds throught the world in preparation for it’s total control.
Stonewall Jackson Nailed it. Kudos!! I think this article was written by the CIA to jack up their budgets. Look up “Operation Mockingbird.”
I live in Alaska and have done some research into N.K.’s ability to carry out their threats against the U.S. Let me tell you, we Alaskan’s aren’t shaking in our boots, but we are keeping a weary eye open to the east.
After the Obama administration cut the missile defense system back drastically (14 b to 2 billion), and left Alaska nearly defenseless, we DON’T pass off their claims of being able to hit the U.S. with nuclear weaponry. BTW, we are a part of the U.S. — remember?
N.K. already has tested and proven the older Taepodong 2 can hit Alaska with impunity, and can nearly hit the coastal cities of Seattle, Vancouver, and Portland. Additionally, the newer submarine launched missiles can easily hit major cities along the U.S. west coast.
I would encourage us not to be so arrogant and dismissive of the little fat boys claims as he can already burn Alaska, and some of the west coast, to a crisp.
May we keep awake, alert, and all set for whatever gets thrown our way. May God help us.
Blessings,
Son of Liberty
Testing the Taepodong 2 doesn’t prove it can hit Alaska. Has any ICBM made by any country been shown to actually work? All we hear about is testing. What would prevent an ICBM from burning up once it re-enters denser atmosphere? NK’s capabilities are likely hyped, except for artillery aimed at Seoul.
V2s re-entered atmosphere in the 1940s without burning up.
As a retired missiler, on a reoccurring basis an icbm is randomly uploaded from a U.S. based icbm silo and along with crew is taken to Vandenberg AFB and launched to an atoll in the south pacific. And yes the dummy warhead is tracked and verified as to hitting it’s target very accurately.
Where do you live in South Korea?
I’ve lived in Cheongju for 2 years and then just recently moved to Gongju.
I always ask Koreans how they feel about this, and most of them seem to not even know about it. Sort of in one ear and out the other.
The THAAD is definitely about the USA extending its armed dominion.
Stonewall Jackson
A close friend of mine was stationed on the DMZ in 77. Things were tense at that time. He was issued 16 rounds in a magazine and had to count them at shift change. He said the ROKs were some distance behind them. They would pass them in a duce and a half and the ROKs ran to their posts while the US soldiers drove. He seen them train and was convinced that the US solders were right on the DMZ to prevent the South from going north as much as north from going south.
ROKs are no push over with first rate equipment and a real reason to fight as South Korea has certainly benefitted.
Yes, NK is no threat to anyone. And South Korea doesn’t want to deal with 25 million starving, brainwashed North Koreans. Or the 10-15 million that would survive a major war
God knows, all of those 1/2 starved chinks are crazy as cat shit…
Hope you’re right. Kim has never been accused of being rational, and the conventional weaponry trained on Seoul is easily observed. The biggest danger related to DPRK nukes (if they exist) is their sale to other irrational thugs (read: muslimes). DPRK desperately needs the cash.
You are wrong. North Korea will be destroyed in the immediate future–all 25 million killed. South Korea will suffer 1-3 million casualties at most. Hope you have a bomb shelter, you anti-Semitic coward.
Then you must live in a cave or you are a North Korean….. This lunatic in the North has stated several times that his goal is to be able to reach the West coast of the USA with nukes. Only a fool like you would then say that no war will happen. People like you (who ask us to suspend reality) is why Trump got elected. Your time and the time of others like you who ignore reality is over. Trump will fix it. Now go back into your basement.
Well with that shittly little NK Kimchi it will be begun and ended within half a day so most people glued to their iPhones won’t even know anything happened, so let’s just get ‘er done shall we?
BlackMoe, your “little … kimchi’ comment made me hungry. That explains my post below.
Like who invents these stories anyway? Total BS Fake News. Hey, lets make N Korea the next boogie man. Shall we? Korea still cannot launch a rocket without it blowing up on the launch pad. Only a fool would arm such a rocket with a NUKE that could possibly blow up his own country. So lets get real here. And the only rockets that N Korea did launch or lobbed in the ocean by Japan in the last few months, were the Old SCUD missiles that can’t hit anything on a good day.
N. Korea is just another 3rd World Country that makes for a good punching bag and again to massively squander more US Treasury on the Bankster Elitists aka: Military Industrial Complex Mafia, and to put more resources in the South China Sea.
And btw/ rumor has it. Chinese President Xi Jinping refused to stay at Trumps Mar-a-Lago estate in South Florida during his visit. He will go there, but not stay there. Jinping is not anybody’s B!tch. So get the facts here:
Trump summit will be only US stop for Xi, says Secret Service source
US media reports add that Chinese president will not stay at Mar-a-Lago estate in Palm Beach
PUBLISHED : Wednesday, 29 March, 2017, 2:47am
UPDATED : Thursday, 30 March, 2017, 5:07pm
President Xi Jinping will limit his US visit next month to Palm Beach, Florida, and local US media are reporting that he won’t stay at Mar-a-Lago, US President Donald Trump’s exclusive Palm Beach residence.
A US Secret Service spokesperson, who asked not to be identified, confirmed that Xi and his delegation would be in Palm Beach on April 6 and 7 for meetings with Trump, and that the Chinese president had no other US stops planned.
The spokesperson declined to confirm reports from CNBC and the Palm Beach Post that Xi would stay at Eau Palm Beach Resort and Spa during his stay.
Link: ht tp://www.scmp.com/news/china/policies-politics/article/2082959/chinas-xi-will-not-stay-mar-lago-april-summit-trump
Who invents this? Lockheed. Boeing.FN. Colt. HK. Haliburton
Screw that chink. Go and stay at Motel 6 and chase the local alley cats for your “taste from home” so to speak.
Wow are you naive. The North Koreans routinely threaten the USA. Real or not only a fool (you) would ignore these threats. We live in a world where fools ignore words of lunatics with nuke weapons. It is because of deniers like you that Trump got elected.
Nuclear weapons do not exist. Hiroshima and Nagasaki are thriving, not a nuclear wasteland. Any and all wars over weapons of mass destruction are lies. Look at the official explosion footage of nukes, complete and utter crap.
Nukes do not exist and the earth is flat. Ahuh.
XYK,
Wow, thats a new opinion, I’ve never heard before!
By the way tourists go to the site of the first US nuclear bomb, many with Geiger counters. I is open to the public.
Didn’t we bomm the shit out of those fooks years ago? Must have been a Viagra bomm.
Oy Vey! Another one of “those” flat earth types! Sigh, the sad state of public education in the ole US has surely declined.
I worked on nuclear weapons while serving in the US Air Force, so for some under-educated twit to claim they do not exist, is like listening to idiots who think the moon is made of cheese, the earth is flat, and the tooth fairy is real.
ben, I doubt Xyk is US educated.
Probably North Korean.
You should have figured that out.
Yes, nuclear weapons are claimed to exist & work. ICBMs are said to be able to re-enter denser atmosphere & not burn up. We have been sold the nuclear weapons story by every major power without any decent proof of existence. Hiroshima & Nagasaki appear to be a mass attack of fire bombing which burnt wooden structures to the ground while concrete & steel building survived. That doesn’t fit the nuclear capability of incinerating everything in sight that has been sold as “evidence” of such bombs existence. Take a good hard look at the science before accepting the existence & capability of such weapons.
Are you stupid or just plum crazy little boy? You are as goofy as the FAT BOY in PRK.
War, Maybe. But I don’t think we could call it his first war. He’s already involving us deeper in Syria, Iraq , Yemen . There is talk about another Surge in Afghanistan. Iran may be on the list depending on what Israel decides to do in Gaza and Lebanon. Trump may be forced to take a harder stand in Ukraine from NATO and European pressure.Trump may be Tweeting domestically but when the balloons are sent up There is plenty of war clouds on the horizon.
Over the past several years, I have read multiple articles by several sources (that are reasonable and rational) that have flatly stated that WWIII will start with North Korea.
Make no mistake that North Korea is China’s ally. China has a defense treaty with North Korea. Either China sells out their long time ally or it’s war with China and maybe Russia.
I hope every is prepped and ready! Just need 3 more months and I will be more prepared than I have ever been. I am 100% focused on Food! I am going to start posting on the site again because we are very close now.
I have been getting GREAT recipes on YouTube (and will never buy canned soup again). My suggestion is get your recipes set now. Make sure you know how to make the meals and have the ingredients that you will rely on.
Walmart is having a price Rollback on several buckets from Augason Farms.
Augason Farms Instant Potatoes, 282.24 oz for 28.00 reg 50.90
Augason Farms Creamy Potato Soup Mix, 501.28 oz for 45.99 reg 104.98
Emergency Essentials SuperPail White Rice, 40 lbs for 36.00 reg 59.95
Emergency Essentials SuperPail Pinto Beans, 41 lbs for 40.00 reg 74.95
Plus other bucket and number 10 cans! Act Now!
“J”
Where are you finding these prices?
Thanks
Sgt.
Sarge, sorry for the delay here are a few links.
Emergency Essentials SuperPail White Rice, 40 lbs $36.21
https://www.walmart.com/ip/47443490?athcpid=47443490&athpgid=athenaHomepage&athcgid=null&athznid=EASYREORDER&athieid=v1&athstid=CS002&athena=true
Augason Farms Instant Potatoes 28.00
https://www.walmart.com/ip/55292837
Emergency Essentials SuperPail Pinto Beans, 41 lb $40.00
https://www.walmart.com/ip/47443483
Sarge, these are online prices. I just submitted a comment with links. I hope it help. These prices are really great!
Sarge, that first link is for re-ordeer, here is the correct link.
Emergency Essentials SuperPail White Rice, 40 lbs $36.00
h ttps://www.walmart.com/ip/Emergency-Essentials-SuperPail-White-Rice-40-lbs/47443490
Emergency Essentials Dried Whole Egg Powder, 40 oz $20.00 reg 39.00
h ttps://www.walmart.com/ip/Emergency-Essentials-Dried-Whole-Egg-Powder-40-oz/50103629
Sgt Dale,
Check Online:
https://www.walmart.com/ip/Augason-Farms-Instant-Potatoes-282.24-oz/55292837
https://www.walmart.com/ip/Augason-Farms-Creamy-Potato-Soup-Mix-501.28-oz/55292818
https://www.walmart.com/ip/Emergency-Essentials-SuperPail-White-Rice-40-lbs/47443490
“J” and “SitBR”
Thanks for the info. Looking into it.
Had to go to Wall-Mart to talk to a girl that plays Softball for me.
While there I found Cross bow bolts on sale for $1.00 a piece. I got all 11 of them. Water purification tablets 30 count for $1.00 a piece I got 9 of them. with tax spent around $20.25. This is one of those things you don’t pass up.
Sgt.
US has not one in the first Korean war. Why should they win this time if they go to war with N. Korea? By the way how about Vietnam? Panama etc. is about they right size of a country to win. If the US steps into N. Korea, China will help them! May be the import problem (Trump) is solved then…
DPRK is the size country USA likes to go to war with. We would find out quickly whether they are nuke armed. If China helps DPRK again, USA will get it’s ass handed to it again.
it will never happen, there is no chance of wwiii not in yours or my lifetime,
The “War to end all Wars” will be when the USA decides to stop letting the Zionists rule the US Government, Foreign Policy and MSM Propaganda Hate Press and destroy them once and for all, off the face of the entire earth forever.
I would gladly join that fight to save America. They are the real enemy well embedded on our shores already. Lets get the shooting started, just as the 2nd Amendment prescribes. To form a New Government by and for the people again.
What are you doing here then? Get out there and get the ball rollin’ cowboy!
The US in particular, but also the rest of the Western countries, some more than others, they are all Zionist/Israel controlled; and all their Governments are but proxies for this evil cabal.
The US has NO foreign policy except the one dictated to it by it’s overlords. So if attacking [destroying] N.Korea is on the US’s agenda, then one should ask why Israel would want to destroy N.Korea?
Israel wants to destroy [actually have the US do so] Iran, but Israel is concerned that Iran could in the not so distant future purchase from N.Korea a couple Nuclear Bombs [or the enriched Uranium for building their own], which they could drop on Israel in retaliation. N.Korea needs the money desperately, and Iran desperately needs the deterrent of the N.Bomb [after all, the US has been threatening an attack on Iran for over 15 years now].
N.Korea developed their nuclear program as a deterrent to the US attacking them, threatening to nuke Soul and Tokyo in retaliation. But of course if they do, the US would turn all of Korea into a lifeless parking lot.
Whatever the scenario/outcome of a US attack on N.Korea, Israel is NOT concerned about any lives [other than Jews] or countries. N.Korea is far away from Israel, so they don’t care what happens there, and how many millions could potentially die. Their only concern is for N.Korea not to sell any N.Bombs to Iran.
In a nutshell, this is my take on this situation.
jeff, thanks for clarifying that. No need to prep then, right people?
Now, you could be right if your (or my) lifetime ended tomorrow or next week, but only an insider or a fool would make a blanket statement like that.
But thanks for the positive thinking anyways.
as it happens i have been a prepper for over 30 years, at the end of the day these are all just opinions, you may believe the world could end tomorrow with nukes or world wars if thats your opinion your entitled to that, mine differs based on the evidence i see around the planet on a daily basis i just dont think we will see anything other than what we currently see everyday “turmoil in the middle east” most people on prep sites were running for the hills with their ruck sacks when we saw tv footage of the Ukraine flare up a few years ago and were convinced Russia would be at war with Nato within a matter of weeks…then it was the Chinese islands now its NK lol…of course thats just “my opinion”
Jeff, WWIII has already started, the first phase was the Gulf War and the momentum hasn’t stopped, it’s just slowly escalating. Might be another decade of mini-wars to build up the full all-out war, but it has already been placed into motion.
BlackMoe, Agreed that small mini wars have started…but we have always had these “mini wars” as a 55 year i cant remember a time in my life when there hasnt been conflict somewhere on the planet. They will continue in the middle east of that much im sure, look NK isnt going to launch Nukes, satellite detection would spot that instantly and NK is aware of the consequences of such a launch and if they did what are they going to launch them on..Scuds ! these are all “opinions” of course, and mine is i dont believe we will see any nukes used or world wars, world wars mean all major first world country’s at war and i just dont see it, as it happens i have been a prepper for over 30 years,
Really Justice, then post your links for proof. Most Prowar articles are propaganda. Know the difference.
“Reasonable & rational sources” in no way point to inevitability of an event. It’s simply persuasive. This is how fear mongering works. Unless the sources are insiders who actually start wars then it’s just another speculative argument.
America will make a big mistake by striking North Korea. While America belives NK would be as easy as popping a zit, the reality is very far from that. NK has been preparing for this war since the 1950s. It is like Joel Skousan and shtfplan.com on steroids. They know this war is coming, they know it will involve nukes, and thus they have prepared all options.
But let’s start with the basics. For the past four decades, America has only ever gone to war with greasy Latin Americans, irie Carib beans, and dune coons and pyjamma-wearing tribalists. It has never taken on high IQ, disciplined Asians. Koreans are a race identified people. That means they are conscious of their unique racial abilities, which includes the ability to make sophisticated things. Compare that with Arabs and Africans.
This means they will not crack at the first attack.
As for war preparations, let’s call this Preparation H. They have put the majority of their capability deep underground – with the assumption they would be nuked there. They have also kept their options open to strike back from space and sea. They do not need to be sophisticated, they just need to be motivated. The North Vietnamese did not have technological advantage on the US but they were able to grind America down until victory,
Let’s face facts: if the ‘folks’ in Afghanistan can grind America down and the ‘folks’ in Iraq can, then high-IQ North Koreans definitely wil be able to.
Frank Thoughts, great post. Recent reports make it sound like Trump is drawing a line in the sand, and unlike the “Obama-Nation”, he will NOT back down. The North Korean’s, are literally on China’s doorstep, and would make a very formidable enemy.
It is really starting to become apparent that we “The US/Current Rulers” want to start a war. First we try and flip Russia’s main ally in Syria. Then we flip the Ukraine, which is on Russia’s doorstep and is extremely strategically important. Now we are threatening to attack China’s main ally and confronting them in the South China Sea.
In 2008, when the financial system was collapsing, the people in Europe said with absolute certainty that they knew where all this would end … in War!
The old system is running out of road. We will see if there is to be a smooth transition to a new system. The US sat at the head of the table under the current system. It’s my guess that China and Russia want a bigger cut of the pie under the new system. God help us.
I agree Trump is not Obama. Obama would do anything possible to let radical Islamists escape air strikes. Obama created a ‘flight stack’ over the Middle East that required direct White House approval for any strike. This meant basically nothing was ever hit because it took so long to get a strike order. Mostly, the US navy just burned gas for years on end.
I am sure Trump will strike. He is not going to avoid casualties. I think we will see wars like we used to see them: all-in affairs, with a draft, and large American and allied casualty rates. Think of Vietnam at its peak: 800 a week. It will take serious war to confront NK and China and there is in no way around high casualties. These aren’t ‘doon coons’.
On the plus side, we have the bodies coming in by the day to make up the frontline troops. The draft will scoop up all those Muslims and Africans and get them in uniform and into a fire base somewhere. That will help us take a higher casualty rate with the general public (a casualty roll call of unmemorable black faces and Muslims in beards will not look as bad as freckle-faced blondes). Keep high-IQ Asians and whites in the officer and non-com roles and in the air force and navy.
This is a Non story. We can solve the entire matter by: Just sending Dennis Rodman over to cuddle with the little guy and make him feel special. No need to waste another Trillion dollars for the MICM sole benefit.
The biggest threat to America is the US Government.
“16 Remedies for Radiation Exposure”
http://www.askaprepper.com/16-remedies-radiation-exposure/
Good to know!
“Let’s face facts: if the ‘folks’ in Afghanistan can grind America down and the ‘folks’ in Iraq can, then high-IQ North Koreans definitely wil be able to.”
The fact is a fight against guerrillas is very difficult if not impossible. Invasion is out of the question. Neutering their offensive capability is easy. Thwarting any conventional invasion of South Korea easy too.
Russia Calls out the US Military and NATO for protecting the drug manufacturing Trade business of Heroine in Afghanistan. Afghanistan before 9-11 only manufactured 50% of the Heroine in the world. After the US occupied Afghanistan they now contribute 95% of the Heroine produced world wide.
The CIA is the worlds largest most powerful Drug Cartel on the Planet. Until the sheep wake up to this fact, its business as usual. The CIA sells the drugs creates a Black Budget to further undermine other Nations and Governments. Want to save the planet from drugs, disband the CIA and Stop funding it.
The CIA Flys the Drugs on US Military Aircraft, much of it back into the US, then unloads it to US Drug dealers on the street. Many US Military Bases have MOU’s (Memorandums of Understanding) with the DEA that the US Bases will “SELF POLICE THEMSELVES” and eliminate the checks and balances of drug sniffing dogs on US Military Bases. With No Drug enforcement. That’s a Fact. What we need to do is to Raid all Military bases that fly aircraft to and from Afghanistan, lock down the entire base and search every orifice on the base for all drugs. There are warehouses full of drugs under the guise of the CIA on US military bases. President Trump can you hear me now?
Russia Just Called Out US/NATO Role in Afghan Drug Trafficking — US Main Stream Media Silent
Link: ht tp://topsecretinfoexposed.com/russia-just-called-usnato-role-afghan-drug-trafficking-media-silent/
Go do some FOIA (Freedom of Information Act requests) to the Public Affairs Offices on all US Military Bases to and from the Middle east and Afghanistan, for all MOU’s with the DEA and ATF. You will find this cozy wink wink turn a blond eye relationship, into lack of drug enforcement on Military bases, and lack of checks and balances, and will find this seedy underworld of CIA operatives importing drugs into the US on US Military planes. And our Tax Dollars are funding these budgets and operations. Amazing!!! The US Military is a FRAUD.
I think the best outcome on NK is to let China do their own ‘regime change’ there. Replace that fat dildo with someone that at least has some sanity and will start taking better care of their own people. That way China can still have their buffer state and also scrap the missile and nuclear programs. That part of the world would become stabilized and it would be one less major problem. It certainly beats the hell out of WW3.
I’m so tired of revisionist history about VN. The NVA and VC did not wear down the US. Our last combat forces left in August of 1972 or March 1973 depending on whose historical accounts you subscribe to.
Our clients in VN, the Govt and the ARVN, were corrupt and the leadership was motivated primarily by the funding the US continued to provide. When the Libs cut off the $, the leaders cashed out. Saigon fell in April 1975.
We did not lose – we gave it away.
<bb
I agree with you.Four of my classmates kia.
Its not revisionist history. First the US fought two different enemies.
The Pentagon Papers reported that 50 tons day of supplies would keep the VC going. Thats 20 2.5 ton trucks or its equivalent in human porters. That amount could not be cut hence the VC could fight as long as there are VC. The “Attrition” strategy of Westmorland is in reality the absence of a strategy and never equaled the birth rate of the enemy. Simple math was beyond the comprehension of him and Robert McNamara. North Vietnam was not invaded because of the fear of the direct involvement of China’s “bottomless pit of Asian manpower along with their development of a nuclear weapon in 1964. Bombing a people back into the stone age as Curtis LeMay proposed presupposes that this enemy has indigenous military manufacturing that can be destroyed. North Vietnam received its material means to continue war with only disruptions not severing and very successfully hid behind both China and the USSR.
To sum up:
A. The supplies could not be cut to a point of capitulation.
B. The sanctuary of NVN continued and would continue to exist.
C. The North Vietnamese / VC had a history of long struggle, fighting China for 1000 years for independence that far exceeded the staying power of the US.
As Giap said, “I will lose 10 of my men for every one of your but you will tire and leave”. ‘I cannot leave for I have nowhere else to go”.
“Our clients in VN, the Govt and the ARVN, were corrupt”
Very true. The US created a government that could not stand on its own legs and the US could not afford both economically, politically and militarily to maintain it. This is exactly what Giap predicted and exactly what occurred.
The US could have saved South Vietnam by staying there indefinitely, this was both economically and politically impossible. The VC / NVA didn’t need to win as they lost every battle. All they needed to do was stay in the fight and continue to inflict casualties while simultaneously preventing the South Vietnamese Government from controlling vast sections of countryside.
Carl von Clausewitz stated, “War is politics by other means”.
We lost.
The very goal of war is not to inflict casualties and destroy infrastructure, they are just means to an end. The goal of war is to achieve a political objective; period.
K2
We lost because we did not follow the constitution.
If we wage war we must declare war and pass a law
stating as such. That way the vermin we have to live with called Democrats can’t use politics to kill the effort. Wars must be legally declared, not resolutioned.
Rellik
“We lost because we did not follow the constitution.”
We lost because under any acceptable sane use of force it was unwindable. Declare war, invade NVN, fight China in the process, you must bomb China’s industrial capacity, China drops a fission bomb on US troops killing 100,000. Game on, Russia is involved too.
NVN was not worth WWIII.
There are limits to the use of power.
In the end, war is, “Politics by other means”. The objective of war isn’t “victory”. The objective is a political concession which may include, but not be limited to, ” conventional victory”. Vietnam could be “won” by invading and occupying NVN. That is absolutely unrealistic politically, economically and militarily due to risk and cost. SVN could not be quarantined with over 1000 miles of unsealable border that would have to be manned into infinity costing multiples of what that war cost which bankrupted the US and drove it off the Bretton Woods gold standard.
Once again, there are limits to the use of power.
The “political victory”, keeping Vietnam out of Chinas grip could have easily been achieved post WWII but the US went back on its word and facilitated the French returning. Ho Chi Minh could have been Broz Tito, a thorn in both the USSR and Chinas side. The Vietnames and Chinese historically hate each other having fought multiple times and culminating it in 1979 after the fall of SVN. Unfortunately MIC seen the “solution” in war profits. The same “solutions” are being applied today. You reap what you sow.
K2,
You miss my point.
A declaration of war in Vietnam would
never have occurred for some of the reasons
you bring up.
I’m a Vietnam era Vet and really appreciate
the craziness, but I hold to my comments on the constitution.
We shouldn’t fight extended wars unless congress passes a declaration of war.
Korea, Vietnam, Bosnia, Afghanistan, Iraq et al should have been declared wars or we should have backed off and let them all kill each other.
K2, I agree 100%. We should never go to war without a declaration of war by Congress. Of course, if we are attacked, we have to strike back but if it’s important enough for Americans to fight and die, then it’s important enough for a declaration of war.
K2, please comment on how a Chinese nuke would have killed 100k soldiers. No air superiority, not even close. US troops are dispersed widely. Now… to be sure, they might have found some way to deliver, even to a civilian area, killing tens of thousands, and true, it would escalate from there. And your points, while well made, still beg the question: from the US withdrawal to the withdrawal of funds from the US (I think it was around 74 or 75), SVN managed to survive.
You are right about missing the opportunity of turning Uncle Ho into a Tito though. Why is it that people like YOU are not security advisors, and instead we get the utterly corrupt, ignorant and incompetent Susan Rices??? Actually, that’s just a rhetorical question. The answer is simple. While I don’t know if the feckless, liar Rice went to an Ivy League school, but a goodly number our deep staters do. And basically – per people I know who went to Harvard, or similar- you go for the CONTACTS, not the education. After all, the speed of light is the same there as it is at Univ. of TX. or Univ. of British Columbia (Go Thunderbirds!!)
My presupposition underlying all this – and which I assume you agree – is that communism is one of the most intrinsically anti-human, evil (100 mm murdered last century per the Black Book of Communism; the late Dr. RJ Rummel at Univ. of Hawaii estimated an even larger number) movements to have ever existed (though Islam is a close second).
Again, thanks for you posts. Always worth reflecting on.
“K2, please comment on how a Chinese nuke would have killed 100k soldiers. No air superiority, not even close. US troops are dispersed widely”
We can only speculate at the delivery system from China to the North Vietnam border in event of a US invasion which would have been a requirement but one or more nuclear weapons coupled with a mass attack can do it.
Giap having been thwarted in the big push in 68 and 72 bid his time with reasonable certainty that the US would not intercede in 75. Sooner or later, “You will eventually tire and leave”. “I cannot leave for I have nowhere else to go”. The US was not staying with this indefinitely. The tenacity of repeated failures culminating with a successful one validates Giap’s claim.
“Why is it that people like YOU are not security advisors,”
First of all thanks. Its flattering but this is a no brainer and guaranteed it was debated. The war industry MIC has massive influence. Turning Ho Chi Minh into Tito doesn’t sell napalm. The US government doesn’t necessary operate in the best interests of the US. They operate in the best interests of moneyed interests, often globalist. Need we start with Trade?
Communism has killed millions but I’m not fighting for free market (race to the bottom) capitalism. Its also true that the greatest recruiter of communism is an uncontrolled unregulated capitalist. The problem is regulating capitalism is confused with communism. It matters little if the boot on your throat is filled with a fascist or communist foot.
Thanks, Kev. Very, very interesting. I was always of the thought that it was indeed the Democrats that gave South Vietnam to the Communists in 1975 – you will provide some ideas to chew on, however. Great post.
Some questions/comments for you:
1.) I worked with boat people. What was it, a half million died? This, along with Communism in general, is no better than a corrupt south.
2.) Gen. Giap also stated in his memoirs that his side lost the war at Tet. Was your quote from him before or after that later statement of his?
3.) If von Clausewitz’s “War is politics by other means,” given that Vietnam has now had to abandon strict Marxism, is a big trading partner of the US, and indeed even look to the US for tacit protection against China, how is it that the US lost?
4.) Did Vietnam cause enough delaying action to allow the Communist rot and inability to set prices to come to fruition?
5.) What are your thoughts re. the US, a la Kennedy, withdrawing its advisors early on? Your thoughts on what might have transpired? Interesting thought experiment, no?
6.) You note the attrition strategy – yet would their really be a 1:1 replacement ratio? What if, after the Tet defeat of N. Vietnam, the communists also lost their taste for war? Seems to me this might be too simplistic.
7. North Vietnam was not invaded because of the fear of the direct involvement of China’s “bottomless pit of Asian manpower along with their development of a nuclear weapon in 1964… boy, no joke there, eh! Of course, not sure how the Chinese would have *delivered* their bad boy… by ox cart maybe? But still, certainly would give anyone pause.
8.) “Bombing a people back into the stone age as Curtis LeMay proposed presupposes that this enemy has indigenous military manufacturing that can be destroyed. North Vietnam received its material means to continue war with only disruptions not severing and very successfully hid behind both China and the USSR.” True. But what about Haiphong? So one destroys limited indigenous mfring ability, then stops the port access. Remember, Russia was the big provider, and they would have no access via their arch enemy China – recall the Ussuri River war right around that time, and the purported request from Uncle Leonid to Nixon to nuke China, and would the US mind if he did.
Your summary was good. But some questions:
A. The supplies could not be cut to a point of capitulation. True, but you have now changed the terms of the argument – we are talking cut to the point of stalemate, not capitulation, which was never a consideration.
B. The sanctuary of NVN continued and would continue to exist. True, but the sanctuary of N. Korea also continued to exist (albeit there was no Laos or Cambodia to sneak thru).
C. The North Vietnamese / VC had a history of long struggle, fighting China for 1000 years for independence that far exceeded the staying power of the US. Yes. And this factors back into the argument of China not being a long term ally or supplier.
Your final point, “The US could have saved South Vietnam by staying there indefinitely, this was both economically and politically impossible. The VC / NVA didn’t need to win as they lost every battle. All they needed to do was stay in the fight and continue to inflict casualties while simultaneously preventing the South Vietnamese Government from controlling vast sections of countryside” is great. But recall, Saigon didn’t fall until, what was it, 1975? Why so long? Were the supplies the US sent enough to prove that point wrong?
I submit my questions with the utmost respect for what you write, so pls don’t take any of these questions as “snarky” or disrespectful, because that is not the intent.
As always, appreciate your comments here. Pls keep them coming!
TEST
I’ll address your questions in order.
1. I make no claim that the North Vietnam was preferred in governing. The fact is it had greater support from the Vietnamese as a whole. Ho Chi Minh would have won the 1954 reunification election. This is why it was cancelled.
2. Giap’s side was far from lost after Tet 1968. Giap I believe made that claim pre Tet.
3. In the end communism is a failed system. All the Vietnam War accomplished is one million Vietnamese, 59k US, smattering of allied dead and the coffers of MIC enriched.
4. Vietnam or no Vietnam communism was going to collapse. It did not accelerate it. Their inability to produce was their downfall.
5. JFK I believe was going to abandon Vietnam post 64 election. A lot of heartache and funds would have been spared.
6. The communists didn’t lose their taste for war. They went back largely to a guerrilla campaign even though the NVA did more of the fighting until the ranks of VC could be replaced. Giap pulled the trigger too soon with Tet 68. He knew it. He repeated it in 72.
7. Korea fall 1950 was in the minds of the US but with a nuclear armed China. Suicide aircraft with an A bomb. We can only speculate.
8. When only 50 tons / day need to keep the destabilizing VC going you can’t hold that back. There is too much area between China, Laos, Cambodia to stop supplies, regarding USSR and China, the enemy of my enemy is my friend. The Vietnamese hated China but that didn’t matter either.
A. Stalemate works in their favor. The effort to cut supplies to the minimum of VC survival could not be maintained. It goes back to you will eventually tire and leave. They’re not leaving.
B NK could be quarantined at the DMZ. Terrain and political geography was to the advantage of the North Vietnamese and against NK. Another point is Ho Chi Minh was looked upon favorably by Vietnamese in the north and south because he got the French out.
C. China would supply a lot longer than the US would stay. China wants buffer states between them and powerful enemies.
In the end, the final thrust to end it all is conventional. That can be thwarted by US air power as it was in 72. The North Vietnamese needed the US out of the equation. The US was weary of war that had a very vague, actually non existent threat to the US people.
Respect those that intelligently disagree with me. I relish the debate here.
The shame is Ho Chi Minh was foremost a nationalist like Broz Tito. He had a historic dislike for China. The great communist conspiracy coupled with MICs profit motivation squandered a huge political opportunity post WWII. Communist will fight communist as Vietnam did with China and Pol Pot. Screw the French. They had no business retiring to Indo-China with us paying 95% of their war effort.
TEST
One final thing. I will debate with anyone that “We could have won in Vietnam” as my thesis stated. Regardless I do like to pose a question to the, “we could have won”, supporters.
Won what? For who?
K2, a couple points in response.
2. Giap’s side was far from lost after Tet 1968. Giap I believe made that claim pre Tet. **I am virtually certain this was in his memoirs, long after Tet. This point is important.**
4. Vietnam or no Vietnam communism was going to collapse. It did not accelerate it. Their inability to produce was their downfall. **The inability to discover price, more spefically, as Hayek, von Mises, etc. noted. Was going to collapse? If they had taken over the world, it would have brought a new Dark Age; i.e., the collapse could well have happened AFTER they gained hegemony. That would have been truly a new Dark Age. I am not convinced at all that they would have collapsed prior to winning the world**
5. JFK I believe was going to abandon Vietnam post 64 election. A lot of heartache and funds would have been spared. **Interesting that JFK was a staunc anti-communist, making his leaving VN even more significant, if that was indeed his intent**
6. The communists didn’t lose their taste for war. They went back largely to a guerrilla campaign even though the NVA did more of the fighting until the ranks of VC could be replaced. Giap pulled the trigger too soon with Tet 68. He knew it. He repeated it in 72. **Nevertheless, there was no fall of Saigon until ~1975 with the withdrawal of US fund. Russia sure didn’t give up on their proxy**
7. Korea fall 1950 was in the minds of the US but with a nuclear armed China. Suicide aircraft with an A bomb. We can only speculate. **IMHO, a suicide aircraft would have made it 2 miles across the DMZ; however, more plausible might be a boat docked at Da Nang, or similar. And to your point, the loss of 5,000 troops still would have made a point, particularly at that juncture in time. I would disagree with your 100k estimate tho**
8. When only 50 tons / day need to keep the destabilizing VC going you can’t hold that back. There is too much area between China, Laos, Cambodia to stop supplies, regarding USSR and China, the enemy of my enemy is my friend. The Vietnamese hated China but that didn’t matter either.
A. Stalemate works in their favor. The effort to cut supplies to the minimum of VC survival could not be maintained. It goes back to you will eventually tire and leave. They’re not leaving. **The stalemate I am referring to would be South VN *after* 1972; i.e., there are no US troops to tire and leave. That goes back to the question, was S.VN able to sustain itself with no US troops. They did 72 – 75 until funding was pulled. BUT, that amount of time could really argue either way, couldn’t it!**
B NK could be quarantined at the DMZ. Terrain and political geography was to the advantage of the North Vietnamese and against NK. Another point is Ho Chi Minh was looked upon favorably by Vietnamese in the north and south because he got the French out. **True. Dien Bien Phu was the genesis of this all, wasn’t it!**
C. China would supply a lot longer than the US would stay. China wants buffer states between them and powerful enemies. **I’m confused here. Buffer with what? Thailand? Philippines? With the US they had a pretty doggone good buffer called the Pacific. Moreover, they had no reason to fear VN. Not sure I follow you here***
In the end, the final thrust to end it all is conventional. That can be thwarted by US air power as it was in 72. The North Vietnamese needed the US out of the equation. The US was weary of war that had a very vague, actually non existent threat to the US people. **IMHO, I consider communism an existential threat in all forms, to what humanity is in itself. And certainly the dominoes of Laos (today Laos is one giant gulag) and Cambodia fell. I think we downplay the existential threat communism was (and still is today). But as you say, it Uncle Ho had been negotiated into becoming a Tito – particularly with Mao on the border, that would have done the trick.
The shame is Ho Chi Minh was foremost a nationalist like Broz Tito. He had a historic dislike for China. The great communist conspiracy coupled with MICs profit motivation squandered a huge political opportunity post WWII. Communist will fight communist as Vietnam did with China and Pol Pot. Screw the French. They had no business retiring to Indo-China with us paying 95% of their war effort.
REPLY
Kevin2 says:
Comment ID: 3682924
April 4, 2017 at 5:40 pm
TEST
One final thing. I will debate with anyone that “We could have won in Vietnam” as my thesis stated. Regardless I do like to pose a question to the, “we could have won”, supporters.
Won what? For who? *Won the lives of a half million boat people who died fleeing the evils of communism; perhaps the lives of x millions of Cambodians. Perhaps reigned in further adventurism in places like Angola, Nicaragua, Chile, El Salvador, etc. And my answer as to “what” might have been won would be human dignity and freedom.
Again, submitted with much respect for the insight and perspicacious manner in which you write. Definitely you have written some good stuff that I will reflect on! And I certainly, I agree with you about the MIC! In one sense, I often think BOTH sides lost the Cold War, in that I do believe the communists were behind much of the co-opting of our culture (cf. Frankfurt School, Antonio Gramsci, and the vile Saul Alinksy, etc.
He who attacks must vanquish. He who defends must merely survive.–Master Po, Kung Fu
TEST
2. Giap lost conventional forces in Tet (main force VC, NVA) . The guerrillas, with 50 trucks day could go on indefinitely thus sending home US troops in body bags indefinitely. They win at that game.
4. Communism wasn’t going to win. Technological innovation and mass production favored the west. Communists also have to use a considerable amount of their resources policing their own. Its a doomed failed system.
5. JFK seen Diem assassinated summer 1963. He seen it as a losing cause.
6. The only thing to stop a conventional attack was US air power. The North needed a high expectation of it not being used. They waited until 1975. In the meantime 73-75 the south was being attacked but the north wasn’t.
7. That nuclear armed aircraft would have been an act of desperation used to defend China’s border in event of a US invasion of the north which would be a prerequisite to long term save SVN. That would have required a lot more troops in a mass, a ripe target. A blood bath. We can debate the number but the price was way too high regardless thus there would be no attack. That means sooner or later the north was going to take the south.
A. The SVN government did not control SVN post 73 US withdrawal. SVN was being attacked and undermined, NVN wasn’t. Sooner or later the south loses. Five years, 50 years, sooner or later.
B. The genesis of it all was not just allowing but facilitating the French re-occupation.
C. China wants nations bordering it not to be friendly with the west. NK is that for China. China’s biggest nightmare would have been a Vietnam, communist or not (Tito) at a minimum not hostile to the west. Pour on aid and industry and in two or three decades (a weekend for the Asian mind) and you have a vibrant quasi capitalist neighbor at a minimum undermining your totalitarian rule.
“human dignity and freedom.”
Unfettered, unregulated, robber baron capitalism facilitates communism.
I don’t believe that Vietnam thwarted anything. It focused the US in a pointless war on the Asian mainland that all but destroyed the future of the US economy necessitating the abandonment of Bretton Woods. They, the communists, got us to fight their war negating technology going mano to mano with the subsequent high casualties resulting from it.
Communism is a political philosophy, a thought. Its starts very voluntarily but is eventually maintained with force.Its incipient fertilizer is the ultra greedy capitalist. Its greatest enemy is a vibrant, huge, middle class. “Lets rise against our oppressor”. “What oppressor”? “I have a car, home, good food, good access to medical care, my kids are being educated and the future looks bright”. This is communisms enemy, not bombs and bullets. If you need to use bombs and bullets you have abandoned the previous thus giving them a foot hold.
Fighting communism with bullets just makes MIC wealthy. You do need defense from conventional attack. Nuclear weapons for the most part provide that.
BB bingo!
First let me state,don’t know everything!I think I was 12 when it ended.Through the years I’ve had several friends that were there.My understanding is the capital of NV was in a valley with 3 dams above,all we had to do was take them out,flood the city,war over!WE DIDN’T HAVE THE BALLS
Maniac — out
You could have destroyed Hanoi. Carpet bombed it. The guerrillas, the National Liberation Front better known as the VC (Victor Charlie, Vietnamese Communist) needed 50 tons a day to continue, that wasn’t stopping. The US would eventually pack up and leave. They fought China for 1000 years.
The US knew the war was unwindable by 1967.
We left (from a combat perspective) in March 1973 at the latest. We spent under $200 billion (in 2011 dollars) for economic and military aid for SVN for the whole 23 years per DOD figures.
If we were committed to giving the admittedly corrupt South a chance to continue as free as they could have been it would have required no more than about $10 billion per year in today’s dollars. That’s a round off error today….
They would have had to win it, but you could argue that we owed it to our people who gave all to see it through at least from a money standpoint.
It wasn’t Westerners fighting the East at that point, but fellow VNs. Giap was talking about outsiders leaving eventually (and we did in 1972 or 1973)
It all boiled down to whether or not the South wanted to continue. They did, but we cut them off. Our American Liberal politicians (I’m looking at you Senator Church)
did the ‘betrayal.’
Some say it was unsustainable, but we didn’t even try and they quit when we did.
<bb
bb in GA
SVN wasn’t a real government it was a created one. Ho Chi Minh would have won the 1954 reunification elections which is why the US seen to it that it didn’t happen. Johnson said, “Why do their Vietnamese fight better than our Vietnamese”? This plus geography made SVN a loser.SVN was under continuous attack, only the US could attack NVN. The US would eventually, “Tire and leave”. The fall of SVN was only a matter of when.
Thanks for the extensive history discussion to one and all.
<bb
Frank, not sure I’d call inbred, Mentally Il Kim Jong “high IQ.” Y’know, the same guy that is best buds forever with Mensa member Dennis Rodman.
There are wars..then there are WARS ! One must factor in leadership – is it a serious actor, does it micromanage ? Also.. resolve, future risk vs reward contrast to the present R v R. China is singularly dependent on U.S. trade lest their trade and fragile (black) banking practices implode. That would certainly result, ditto refugees from NK, economic disruption in S.E. Asia, for starters. Stick to facts . Cease the sophomoric projections !!! Useless !!!
I’ve been watching this slice of History.
“The War of 1812.” Can any of you name the players in this war off hand without researching it and what it was about?
Watch this Movie. 2 hrs.
History: The War of 1812 Documentary:
http://topsecretinfoexposed.com/russia-just-called-usnato-role-afghan-drug-trafficking-media-silent/
OOPS, Here is the War of 1812 doc Movie.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lZrOCvkZxq4
Spoken like a true racist pos.
Motoxguy, uh, what’s your problem?
Just like in Afghanistan, the terrain negates most of our technical advantage. They can spend hundreds longer than we can spend billions, especially if China won’t loan us those billions. China might let USA get bogged down in DPRK and then attack us financially.
You forget one thing. It is the ideology that makes a turd world country stupid.
China is very capable people but their ideology holds them back.
In another words communist makes people so dumb capitalist have to feed them and hand over our very own plans so they can survive then kill us later.
Meaning, the world will starve, have no freedom of any kind or nothing to look forward too.
So Communism is very destructive and it doesn’t take much to see that they will foolishly start the FINAL war!
The Globalist/NWO want war.
They are pushing war with Iran, Syria, Ukraine and now N.K.
The “Lamestream” media is pushing hard for war with North Korea.
If war breaks out between South Korea and North Korea it will go Nuclear within 72 hours.
S.K can not stop a full assault by N.K. unless th United Sates uses Nuclear weapons to stop the advance.
China will not stand by and allow US and South Korean troops on its border, China will move into North Korea.
There will be no winners, we will all lose if this war breaks out!
Wen to tractor supply on Saturday they had chicks and ducks for$1.99 a piece. Just thought I’d put that out there.
All wars are Bankers wars.
__
How would you make money on this?
Play both sides
Just like they always do
Here it is for sharing and listening. All Wars Are Bankers’ Wars By Michael Rivero
I know many people have a great deal of difficulty comprehending just how many wars are started for no other purpose than to force private central banks onto nations, so let me share a few examples, so that you understand why the US Government is mired in so many wars against so many foreign nations. There is ample precedent for this.
https://youtu.be/5hfEBupAeo4
I believe that nukes are intended more as a deterrent.
It seems, to me, that NK has tightened it’s belt, in order not to be invaded.
We keep hearing that the orange or yellow dictator won’t back down, but both sides have backed down, so far, for fear of MAD, not out of mutual respect.
The King of the north and the King of the east? Kim Junk Seems like the perfect false flag Patsy’s ? With his EMP satellites ? we can’t detect a EMP nuclear bomb in one of his satellites with one of our satellites maybe? When you have millions unemployed , on food stamps, disability, pensions. And you are broke , trillions of dollars in debt that you could never pay off. What do you do? Massive population reduction? How? EMP? Too messy? Nutron bombs? Clean ? Unless like all savages they like to watch people being torchered. It’s the ultimate in entertainment for them . So expect it?
Make no mistake, this going to get far more testy and worrisome. Have to give credit Frank Thoughts for a good post.
A yet nother war would be awesome!Would keep folks minds off of stumbling economy/govt. spying/govt. meltdowns ect.!I say go for it!
A yet nother war would be awesome!Would keep folks minds off of stumbling economy/govt. spying/govt. meltdowns ect.!I say go for it!
Not to mention a good excuse to meet up at the retreat and get the party started! 🙂
First with N.K.? This might the Donalds first and last war.
If N.K. uses NUKES it won’t stop there. We will respond in kind,. Bring in China. Don’t forget there are troops there from other counties also (UN forces), and don’t forget that N.K. is aiming at Japan.
If this happens China will move on Taiwan. China has some major problems from their southern flank. India and Viet Nam have been trading punches with China over the last few years. Pakistan and China have a defense agreement also. Pakistan hates India. Now do you see where this is going.
And I didn’t even mention what Russia will do in Europe.
So pray that N.K. backs down or China puts a stop to little Kim.
Sgt.
This could be the moment we have needed to get populations down in Asia and Africa. With some smart war planning, we can keep the major set-piece battles in Asia and Africa.
As for Russia in Europe, I would not be surprised if they go for a grab of all of Europe. Most white Europeans wouldn’t mind them running the show if they toss the Muslims out. Modern Russia is not the Soviet Union: it is white, Christian and free market oriented.
America will be too busy with a draft and trying to get its messy population to come together for a war. Boot camp is going to have to go back to what it was in the Vietnam era: tough, about breaking the trooper down, and making men out of boys. It will have the added problem of dealing with all the races and faiths and will need to find a way to get around that.
If we have a long protracted war with NK, we ” lose “.
Long war meaning NK counter- insurgency.
Any draft efforts here would fizzle out long term.
Its political suicide to even mention a draft.
We have had an all volunteer force for so long that the public won’t buy it.
The American public now expects volunteers to fight our wars.
Anything short of WW3- forget about a draft.
Don’t forget, women being drafted would then be an issue.
That would not fly with the majority of the American public.
Make men out of boys? Sure. What do you make out of the girls that are in military basic training? They are not equal really, you know.
When I was in the military, female cooks in the mess hall needed male soldiers to help them
lift 40 lb. bags of rice out of the store room. Female soldiers were promoted faster than
their male counterparts and went on sick call more often. Its not a man’s Army any more.
Sarge, as I said in a post above, it’s in China’s best interest to handle NK themselves. They can do their own ‘regime change’ and make the NKs scrap their missile and nuke programs. The area gets stabilized and no WW3.
China GAVE North Korea its knowhow and technology to start its nuke programs.
North Korea then helped Pakistan with its nuke program.
China and North Korea are both proliferators.
Do not be surprised if Pakistan helps the Saudis get nukes.
The Saudis expressed interest in possible nuke program because Iran has/wants nukes.
Japan, Taiwan and South Korea may also want nukes in the future. See how it snowballs?
Well. Stink!
Doomed if we do
Doomed if we don’t
Every war that comes along we think we can end in a few short weeks.
Never goes that way.
The American people will cave quickly to the point of a draft. They have no will to go the distance, because they have no pride in being Americans.
They think African Americans, Hispanic Americans, Asian Americans, etc. etc.
They’re too much individual to go the distance of a war of any kind. Especially on foreign soil.
“Soccer moms” will hide their sons and daughters. “Not mine”, they’ll say.
But the war will come and take them anyway.
Why haven’t they done it, yet.
The big question is can there be regime change without the proverbial boots on the ground. Can their hardened sites withstand our thermoberic weapons. Will our homeland
remain unscathed. Do they have agent provocateurs already in place here. The power grid here is vulnerable. They have been charting our weaknesses for many years. Will great
numbers of his troops surrender or cave after the shock and awe. Will NK launch massive
artillery conterstike against Seoul which is 35 or so miles from DMZ. Will THAAD work
effectively. Will SK join the festivities and move its troops north to try to unify the Korean
peninsula. Will China stay out of it entirely or bail out NK in some way. Will our banking and
financial institutions come under massive hacking attacks. Will some of NKs missiles touch
down in Hawaii, Guam, Okinawa, Japan or our bases in SK. Will NK artillery use chemical
shells. Will Japan join the festivities if their homeland is attacked. Will China then jump in
if Japan gets involved. Will NK subs go on suicide missions or will they surrender. Will the
SK economy be devastated in the aftermath. Will our forces be able to knock out enough
NK targets to shut down a missile and artillery counterstrike on SK. Will NK launch SOF
units into SK to do damage. How long can the US go full blast at NK without running out of
cruise missiles and precision guided weapons. Will US bomb major population centers in
NK if NK military assets and troops are moved into those areas. Will NK military try to use
its civilians as human shields. Can the US economy withstand another war on a credit card.
Might as well blow up the world. The radiation spewing out of Fukushima is going to kill us all in a generation or two. A geiger counter is going to be my next prep so I can detect hot spots and contaminated food and water. Distilling water will be the only way to remove radiation from water. Good luck out there guys.
If you know that the MSM is the propaganda wing of the government, then why do you continue to accept everything they tell us as accurate? Why do you believe this garbage as true? Have any of you been to NoKo? Are you Korea scholars? Just read a story about NoKo and you want to go to war? And you wonder how the government got away with so much over the years?
If one single Nuke goes off, the genie will have exited the bottle….there will be no turning back. If the US attacks NK, i can assure you that KJU will unleash his arsenal. It will be all out world war III. This is beyond serious now. It would be the extinction event the bible alludes to in the book of revelation. I hope the powers that be understand the situation. “In a nuclear world, war itself is the enemy”.
Plan. That’s the last word in the title here at SHTFPLAN. Think I saw 2 or 3 posts actually doing that.
I started more grapes, berries, potatoes and lettuce last week. Topped off the diesel stores. Added succulents to the front yard. Chickens are laying fools again. Raised garden beds are next, getting harder to bend over for so long.
NK isn’t a real problem, they’ve been talking big and doing nothing for 50 years.
China might pretend to help but they won’t do anything that jeopardizes their buffer with South Korea. They do not want the reunification of the Koreas. That would mean America was on their doorstep. We will hear lots of promises from China but no real action. We are in this alone.
IMHO,
Sick the CIA on the commy turds, get in there and poison them, every last one of em
The CIA is the Commie Turds.
The John Birch Society questioned their loyalty 5+ decades ago for good reason.
the whole situation is laughable, USA has enough fire power, man power, technolgy and nukes to destroy the planet 100 times over, North Korea`s army are under trained, under paid, under equipped to take on anyone except South Korea (who they are still at war with anyway) their technology and equipment is at best early post cold war, but the interesting thing is USA with all its superior fire power never seems to be able to win any wars quickly !!!….sorry i just dont buy it, nothing is going to happen here, more decades of shouting and arguing, sanctions etc. the Chinese wont risk getting involved, they have created a cushy new life for themselves through decades of selling us cheap plastic crap, im sure they will slap Kims legs and tell him to be a good boy very soon
ICBM’s . North Korea might get a pass if they only had medium range and intermediate
range ICBM’s. Now they are developing long-range ICBM’s that can reach not only the
west coast but the interior US. as well. That is the game changer. Our missile defense
sucks against ICBM’s. Plus its a paranoid regime that seems to think once they get
long-range ICBM’s, they will be untouchable. That is where KJU miscalculated. If they
had a stable government and did business with the so-called international community,
it would not be the issue that it now is. TPTB decide who can have toys and who cannot.
NoKo has no source of foreign money other than missile technology. Their tech is low quality and has very few buyers. They are starving. We don’t have to do anything. They are self destructing. The way all commie governments go.
Him, don’t look to be that that fat little pie face leader has experienced any missed meal hunger pains.
Don’t worry China will take out Fatboy,install a new puppet.Hopefully one that will feed the people!
Pray ,no war.We have enough problems!
Talked to my oldest recently,shithead re-upped,2 more years.
He,s trying to redeploy,NUTS wonder where that comes from,lol!Did bring me back some cool stuff for my toys,spring loaded bi pod,NV light.Asked him why,”I like it”
Right now,wont let him,hope it stays that way!
Be well all!
Maniac –out
NoKo can’t destroy the US. That’s reality. They can destroy SoKo. Huge amounts of artillery and missile launchers near the DMZ. Within striking distance of Seoul. Lots of tunnels heading south. Big enough to drive convoys of trucks through. Mini subs all over. 2 million man army. Lots of chemical weapons.
Exactly: they are going to lash out and hurt what is nearby. South Korea is a beautiful country. They will probably try and capture it and hold it hostage. High numbers and a lightening strike land invasion can overwhelm SK’s technological superiority and its US bases. NK loves crystal meth. So, a vast army of meth heads barging into SK aren’t going to care too much about the high casualty rate. Especially when they are getting revenge for what America just did to their country.
The problem for America is this: all of its wars since WWII have been political, as in, politically managed, not war-fought by military leaders (remember, Douglas Macarthur was fired during the Korean War). That means PR has usually been the main motivation for most actions. In Vietnam, it was body counts (count the arms and legs, divide by four). In Iraq, it was about getting out quickly so the US wasn’t drawn into the mire (how did that work out?). In Panama and Grenada, it was all about getting some trigger time and scaring off the post-Vietnam War heeby jeebies: neither country posed a credible threat to the US. Afghanistan is just a giant sh#t show where politicians actually promised them to make the place as modern and progressive as Sweden.
So, now to North Korea: will the US really be able to politically sustain an all-out strike on that coumtry from the blue? What are the ‘optics’ on that? How do you think that will go down in Asia? Will it look like the US just beat the crap out of the fat, retarded kid just because it could?
And, militarily, NK has already built into its plans an all-out nuke first strike on it. So, with its survivable military, what does it do next? What happens if you run up to a pit bull dog and staple its behind?
And, finally, gentlemen need to be gentlemen: North Korea has some of the finest Asian women out there. Do you really want that removed from the human population, when instead we could do business with them and get to meet those hot women?
Ah Ha! I knew there was an angle. Your last paragraph gave it away. You dirty dog you! LOL.
Yes, Korean women are good females, but physically they are the size of children.
I would say not. As Asians go, they are big and larger than Filipinos and Chinese.
They have great bodies and are strong. Also very beautiful and smart. Crucially, they know the importance of hard work and of having good family values.
And a salute goes out to the Imjin Scouts. Since we’re talking about Korea. One of my buddies was an Imjin Scout. Grunts along the DMZ.
I don’t believe anything the US government says. I don’t believe North Korea poses a threat to any nation. As far as whether or not the US lost the war in Vietnam, warmongers don’t think that’s the case. Close to 60,000 American dead and millions of Southeast Asians murdered sounds like a loss of gigantic proportions to me, and of course to those who lost loved ones. I was drafted in May 1970 and spent a year in Vietnam printing leaflets that were dropped onto the Vietnamese people. Billions were printed, a massive psyops undertaking. I was in the 7th Psyops Battalion. The draft is history. Who needs it when young and dumb is the going rate.
North Korea and South Korea used to be one country until the Corporate US decided they needed an Asian mainland foothold and occupied what is now known as South Korea. They weren’t invited, but ya know, there was that Red Menace after WWII that needed fought, so there ya go…commies…that explains it…them ass fuckin’ Red Menace commie rat bastards./s
From what I’ve seen (besides the official propaganda, it ain’t much) the two would rather be united as one since the south has the good agricultural land. The Empire refuses to let it be so.
NK is only doing this because they want to negotiate with USA, they want billions$$ in exchange for another agreement that NK will break anyway in a year or less after siging. Recall what Bill Clinton gave NK back during 1992-94. USA basically bought and built the NK nuke program for them and the NK renigged on the deal. BClinton should of been tried for treason for that one.
Got the feeling that if wars depended on the consensus of citizens, WW2 would have been
the last one. If nukes can go intercontinental its difficult to be isolationist. It makes for a
much smaller world where you cannot ignore certain realities. Only man would want to
create something that could destroy his existence. How did we go from horse-drawn
artillery to splitting atoms in only a decade or two?
” How did we go from horse-drawn artillery to splitting atoms in only a decade or two?”
Once mankind harnessed electricity technological advancement has went exponential. Unfortunately the first incorporation of technical advancement goes to greater and more efficient methods of destruction.
The world tests new presidents, the last POTUS didn’t do so well, the current POTUS is being tested now. A very strong message will be sent to the world by taking out North Korea and our military wants to do it. One small fact: the Korean war never ended, we technically are at truce. DOD wants to end it…
Ya maybe we should just wait and see if they can remove a city from the West coast…..Then well know for Shure…..Aka cannon fodder
I love how you people try to hide, be a American and stand up say what you mean you cowards. I say America first….Fuck the rest.
“Without China’s help, there can’t be any peaceful resolution with North Korea,”
This should be changed to “there can’t be any peaceful resolution with North Korea”
In no way, shape, or form, can their be a peaceful resolution with dictators that want to see the world burn.
There can not be a peaceful resolution to North Korea, Iran, ISIS, or any other terrorist country/organization.
this is so retarded you’re literally getting laughed at by syrians
The Trump administration’s focus on North Korea as a threat just demonstrates the Drumpf business smarts, since keeping the phony wars rolling is good for continuing the flow of trillions to the MIC.
Anyone on Zero Hedge own stock in the 1000’s of companies gorging at the feeding trough of the MIC or companies that sell weapons and other war related materials to other counties?
The MIC is at the top of the TBTF list and Trump is well aware of this as a smart businessman and he knows he’s got to play along with the war racket here or he’ll get Nixon’d or Kennedy’d.
After all, he’s just doing what he campaigned on, which was to create jobs, which more wars will do.
But you can be sure this whole charade around North Korea is a hoax.
They don’t have nuclear weapons and never will have them, since they don’t exist. Period.
Scientists have never been able to slam two chunks of enriched uranium or plutonium together and generate a critical mass explosion.
It’s a myth that’s kept the MIC siphoning off trillions ever since WW II.
Hiroshima and Nagasaki were firebombed just like Tokyo and many other cities in Japan.
Nuclear ‘testing’ was faked using TNT mixed with chunks of enriched uranium to simulate nuclear bomb fallout.
And, as always, clever edited photography was utilized to simulate gigantic explosions.
Do some research.
So, the North Korea hoax is just the latest in a long series of cons run by the MIC and supported by the same lying psychopaths that brought us 9-11 and all of the other crafted wars since WW II.
Anyone who still doesn’t think that Trump is in on the racket should be able to clearly see it now or they never will.
Cheers
Are u unhinged?
Well…….someone has to do something before they nuke us
first.
All these politicians are puppets of the NWO (Queen Elizabeth II, Rothschild, Vatican, etc.) and these wars are part of the depopulation plan. Listen to Floyd Taylor’s MP3 Audios for first-hand knowledge of who is running this world, what their agenda is, and how set yourself apart from them and stay safe. http://www.153WordsOfGod.com/
Until we are willing to fight all out, 100%, ignore civilian casualties, keep politicians from doing anything type war…we will continue to have these last forever type conflicts that solve nothing and turn our people against any and all conflict. If our military is ever allowed to fight to win, we will do so …and quickly.
A lot of you on this site are deniers of facts. North Korea is a threat and in spite of those of you who would rather sit there and ignore reality, not to worry as Trump will take this lunatic out…. In spite of some of you lunatic leftist deniers