The assumption among the majority of Americans is that the US dollar as the world’s reserve currency will maintain America’s political, financial and economic hegemony around the world for decades to come. But, if there’s one lesson to be taken from economic history, it’s that no currency survives the test of time.
As the economic crisis continued to deepen and affect nearly every nation on earth, many world leaders – from Europe to China – began discussing the replacement of the US dollar as the world’s monetary unit of trade. Dismissed by some as all talk, it should now be clear that the Russians, Arab nations, Japanese and especially China are actively moving towards reducing the dollar’s influence on global economic affairs, and in the case of China and Japan, replacing it altogether:
BEIJING — China and Japan have agreed to start direct trading of their currencies, officials announced during a visit here on Monday by Japan’s prime minister, Yoshihiko Noda.
…
China is the world’s second-largest economy while Japan is the third largest, and the currency agreement is part of a move away from using dollars. Chinese officials have said recently they would like to broaden the global use of the renminbi, also known as the yuan, and want to see more countries move away from relying on dollars as the worldwide currency.
They hold the world’s largest foreign-currency reserves — China has about $3.2 trillion, while Japan holds $1.3 trillion — and any moves to reconstitute the makeup of those holdings could change the global currency map.
“Chinese officials have made it clear that they believe the international economy is too heavily dominated by the dollar,” said Charles A. Kupchan.
Source: NYT
The United States has enjoyed reserve currency status for nearly a century, but our time may be quickly coming to an end. Some of the world’s previous reserve currencies survived for hundreds of years, so some may argue that the US dollar still has some staying power. However, the very same reasons responsible for the collapse of the aureus (Roman gold), dinarius (Roman silver), solidus, gulden and pound will be responsible for the downfall of the dollar.
(image via Zero Hedge and Classical Numismatic Group)
It’s simply, really. When governments spend more money than they bring in via taxation they are forced to devalue, sometimes very slowly, their currency. The Romans did it by reducing the silver content of their coinage, with some 95% of the precious metal being stripped from their coins by the time the empire collapsed in the 4th century.
From a Historical Perspective: The US Dollar vs. The Roman Denarius:
Does the above chart look somewhat familiar?
It should:
What took the Romans nearly three centuries to accomplish, our Federal Reserve has done in less than one hundred.
Historical performance, of course, is not a true indicator of future results, but given that our nation’s central bank refuses to change its policies of quantitative easing and monetary expansion, and considering that the Chinese are attempting to completely discard the US dollar as a tradeable instrument, the dollar’s demise as the dominant global currency will come sooner than later.
On top of that, the United States has some $200 trillion in liabilities over the course of the next thirty years, making it the largest debtor in the history of the civilized world.
The fall of currencies and empires throughout history is a constant.
It is no different this time. Our fate, it seems, is sealed. In fact, the US dollar vs. Silver Dinarius chart comparison above suggests that a currency collapse is not some event that will take place in the future; it’s happening right here and now.
While we may not have yet reached a waterfall event in which the world as we know it comes to an abrupt end over a period of days or weeks, it’s really only a matter of time before complete confidence in the system is lost.
When that happens, expect the unexpected. A rapid meltdown of the US dollar will lead to an economic crisis never before experienced in the modern world, and will likely result in our worst fears coming to pass. Things like food shortages, interruptions to the normal flow of commerce, a breakdown in law enforcement and emergency response services, political upheaval and widespread social strife are unavoidable in such a scenario. As unlikely as it sounds, it is quite possibly the way it will all go down. Look again at the charts above. Do you think there is any way to avoid such an outcome?
The collapse of nations, especially super-powers, is never a pleasant affair.
Bingo ?
Bingo
Christmas vacation right?
yup.. just sort of hanging out, checking the computer between picking catepillars off my tomatoes..
Sam,
You lucky man, all the catepillars are frozen here. Still got snow in my garden, but I still have lettice and spinach and broc.
DPS
America was once a completely self reliant nation. We can go back to that. It won’t be easy, but definitely doable. You don’t need all this conspicuous consumption of foreign made junk. Think about what you really need and find ways to get that from your own backyard. If nobody makes it, then you make it or go without. Like it or lump it, this is what is coming.
How about a nice game of chess?
Does that mean we will have to put gold coins up a strippers hoo-haa like an arcade game to get a lap dance?
Only if she counts change.
cha-ching!
For a gold coin, you’d probably get alot more than a lap dance.
i gotta get some more items for bartering…shoot, i hate shopping of any kind these days.
carynverell,
I hear that I hate shopping, I order alot of things online.Consider stocking up on booze and tobbaco. They will be great barter items I know in the UK you can have guns but you never know with a couple of bottles of booze and some smoke you might just score when the SHTF.
Hope you had a Merry Christmas
DPS
I hear ya – I detest shopping too! There is just nothing I want enough to deal with all the flippin’ PEOPLE!!!
Daisy, shopping can be fun if you go with the right people. Maybe you and I can go shopping some time 😉
I’m with you on the shopping. Unless it is something I REALLY want or need, shopping has a lot in common with having my teeth drilled. 🙁
George Soro’s makes his billions breaking currencies….and he’s had his eye on ours for a long long time….now that he sleeps over at the White House a few times a year it will be all that much easier.
Like letting the fox in the hen house.
It’s even worse than that – they hired the fox to guard the hen house and are paying him a most handsome salary plus bonuses, health care protection, and a generous pension! I guess the moral of the story is that sometimes it better to be the fox.
Maybe some pro-currency ninjas will break him one of these dark nights?
U.S. President, U.S. Dollar, epic failures in the making.
You are correct, Paul, the Dollar is headed for an early demise. However, there is no real alternative, because all currencies of the world are based in paper.
After Nixon unpegged the dollar from gold in 1971, primarily due to our trade deficits, the loss of the dollar’s purchasing power has been in complete free fall, losing 50% in the years between 1977 and 1981 alone.
Economists generally agree that when the world followed a pure gold standard in the years 1870-1914, we had stable currencies with little or no inflation. And of course, this period achieved one of the highest rates of real economic growth in world history.
We are destroying ourselves, and yet do you know anyone in public life announcing the exigency of this gargantuan problem, threatening to wreck the Republic in the final analysis?
I assure you it’s NOT the Gingrich who stole Christmas (taking $1.6 million from Fannie Mae!), or the baseball Mitt (forcing a mandate down your throat), or Helicopter Ben (denying that gold represents money), and certainly not the Komrade in Chief (profits for cronies only)!
Paul, there is only one individual I know of that makes the above solid points known and whose favorite president is Grover Cleveland, the last one to support the gold standard.
There’s only one individual who wants to abolish the fraud and corruption and chicanery and evil of the Central Bank and its funding of worldwide war murder profiteering for the sake of insurmountable debt leading to financial slavery for all.
More than two hundred years ago, we had been warned of central banking and how through inflation, then deflation, over and over again, with the use of paper currency, we would be made homeless on this very continent.
Banking institutions are far more dangerous than standing armies.
With the gold standard, we have no need for central banking at all, and thus the disinformation by Wall Street and its cronies . . . . .
Yet we know what the 2012 election will be all about: Wall Street Nominee #1 vs. Wall Street Nominee #2. Take your pick.
Don’t listen to Paul and see what happens . . . . .
I like Paul on economic issues but his stance on Iran will get us nuked. He doesnt understand Iran’s end-times theology. Either iran hits israel or the opposite but there will be war in the middle in the next year or two
I hear this all the time “i agree with paul 85% of the time BUT……..” So you would rather vote for someone you agree with 15% of the time, because that 15% of the time is policy outside of the us? You a dual citizen??? If you care about isreal so much, move there! I’m sure gingrich’s election campain is paying you a fare wage arn’t they! One more thing, NY will get nuked, the day the world wants all the gold back that is stored there! It is called covering your tracks.
Get the book “currency wars” good read!
You’re absolutely right, Kevin, that’s a great book. It’s a must read for everyone. Or anyone else aspiring to be Chancellor of the Exchequer.
http://www.amazon.com/Currency-Wars-Making-Global-Portfolio/dp/1591844495/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1325116402&sr=8-1
The lethal and utterly depraved idea of devaluing your currency on the way to prosperity is tragically sick and horrendous, probably the very, very worst form of bankster fraud and disinformation. It’s like saying a heroin addict should just keep injecting herself with heroin in order to get herself back to sanity and sobriety.
That’s what they tried to do with our trade deficits in 1971 (and since time immemorial when you have paper based currencies), yet we know what happened next: STAGFLATION.
A stagnant economy combined with inflation, wiping out people’s savings and productivity and investments. The entire decade of the 1970s is perfect evidence. Even in spite of inflation, there was negative GDP growth in 1974 and 1975. If you listened to the disinformation, then that would be unbelievable to your ears if it wasn’t true.
Getting manufacturing jobs back through devaluing your currency is like telling people they will get their gold back who had it stolen by FDR’s government in the 1930s. You know it ain’t gonna happen . . .
And if you like movies, then you know who ends up owning Citizen Kane’s mansion. The End.
Somehow, I think I will vote for the dollar in that race. 😉
This is why after decades of being a saver, with the exception of a couple thousand in emergency cash I spend my money the minute it hits my account. I spend it on food, and fuel, and building materials. Anything I might use within the next ten years. The actual rate of inflation really sinks in when, for example, I have to replace the dozen pounds of butter that line the back of my freezer at current prices.
The only constant is that things always change. America no longer deserves to be the reserve currency for the world. I can only do might part by acting accordingly.
You can can that butter, Pastor.
How JJ? I have a lot of salt and pop corn, but no butter long term.
http://www.pleasanthillgrain.com/red_feather_canned_butter_new_zealand.aspx
Canning butter is EASY!! You CAN can butter…even though the Gov’t. will tell you it’s not safe! Heck, you can BUY it canned from survival stores, so why not do it at home? Check this out…http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DmmyS7z1UNI and there are several other Youtube videos also…
Get the powdered butter. I mix mine with a little canola oil instead of water to get a creamier spread. TASTES AWESOME !!! It’s online with all the other #10 canned foods.
Thanks NCRebal, Happymom and SmokeyMtn Lady.
Heck NC Rebel, For that price, I can can almost a years worth of butter!! I’d rather spend my money on more ammo for my fella’s to protect us from the zombies!! 😀
Pastor
“America no longer deserves to be the reserve currency for the world.”
That is the very reason why we threaten or use force to maintain that position. That opens the door for the “Necessity” of MIC.
PP: Check your disconnect. Those FRN’s belong to the Gangster Banksters. FRN’s are only impersonating America’s money.
FRN’s are a TOOL of the NWO GB’s to gain world financial domination. Its not OUR money.
There is no intrinsic morality associated with money. Morality is assigned by the user of the money, in this case FRN’s, based upon the manner which it is deployed.
A fine line, but a real one, and your perception of “America’s money” is like a lot of Americans, even here, who do not understand how their financial system works.
Its not a question of whether it is deserved or not: IT IS and IT IS for good reasons.
PP – Thanks to the current system of near-zero interest rates, there is no longer any reason to save money. This is like trying to save ice cream with no freezer… it simply melts away before your eyes.
History shows us that it is never the country with the reserve currency that decides when it is time to give it up. Other nations do that. Not that there will be some big hoo-hah financial revolution to accomplish this. All that need be done is for other countries to simply stop using the dollar for buying or selling things. We’re seeing that happening now with direct currency trading between various countries around the world. If enough of this happens, the US dollar will simply become irrelevant in international trade.
You know I ran accross a story on market watch last night and it didn’t make sense at the time, but now it makes a whole lotta sense.
http://www.marketwatch.com/story/2012-stocks-up-10-or-doomsday-scenario-2011-12-27
This maybe the thing that is talked about in this story.
DPS
I read this story yesterday too. I was shocked to see a head line about doom & gloom…it caught my attention. Look at the market today…I guess the holiday cheer is over and the hangover just kicked in.
NSBF,
Yepp and it looks bad every where I think gold will drop to $1555 by close things are not looking good. And also our 5th fleet says they will not allow the strait to be closed by Iran. SHTF it could be soon.
DPS
WOOOHOOO I hit gold right on the money today $1555.00 now if I just owned some..LOL
You did it again! How??? Maybe you should buy a lottery ticket or head to the horse track. =)
Wow… that was cheery. Something tells me, however, that the real truth of our situation probably lies somewhere between Pollyanna and Chicken Little and not at either of the extremes.
Most likely S/Korea will be joining China and Japan early next year.
This would then equal 20% of all global trade.
The U.S. can not justify being the lone global currency reserve any longer.
When this status is lost, all hell will break lose.
There is no soft landing for this one.
TICK-TOCK.
agreed… it’s going to get ugly… We’re talking about the potential collapse of the global reserve currency here, along with trillions of dollars of government debt and the largest national economy in the world…
Mr. Griffin, is that you?
“The U.S. can not justify being the lone global currency reserve any longer. When this status is lost, all hell will break loose”.
Indeed it will. The strange part of this is the sheer number of people who have no clue as to what the term “world reserve currency” really means. The simple explanation is that US dollars are used to settle all international exchanges of goods. All other currencies must be converted into dollars before goods can be exchanged in dollars. Without the need for so many dollars to settle trade accounts, demand for dollars will fall very quickly. Basic economics says that if supply is much greater than demand, the price MUST fall… and it will!
No collapse people. Inflation by a thousand cuts. Double digit inflation is not hyper-inflation and double digit inflation is not the demise of the dollar.
The dollar MUST decline in value if America is to get its manufacturing base back and renew its economy anytime soon. WE must become competitive again in world terms.
The alternative is to repudiate FREE TRADE.
A strong dollar is the death of America because it supports the status quo. The status quo is destroying OUR economy, transferring OUR factories and jobs offshore, and creating unemployment.
You can use double digit inflation to your advantage if you are smart. Get smart. Embrace a decline in the value of the dollar by holding real assets.
It will be about a 10-15% per year decline for 5 years before it stabilizes.
durango kidd
Please define real assets DK? Not all of can afford gold, myself I’m poor dude, but I am also debit free.
So besides gold how can a person come out ahead of the decline of the dollar? I’m not being a smartass but you seem to know what your talking about so tell us.
DPS
Don’t mean to stick my nose in this. But if you are on a fixed income through retirement you are especially hit hard during inflationary times. You can offset that by investing in something like commodities through the market. Oil, beef, corn, pork funds. These usually see an upswing when the dollar is devalued.
But you want to own something tangible. I cannot own gold either, but I can buy silver. And please lets not start this argument of whether it is or is not a precious metal.
Mike,
i said I was poor not living on the goverment teet. I’m a working man, I’m just not making enough to buy gold, Its winter and I work constrution. And I relly don’t think puting my money in the bank is a good idea. I have managed to pay off everything I own, house, cars, Harley and all my prepps. But I still want to know what people consider real assets? If you don’t ask how will you ever know..
DPS
Yes, I think we have all agreed to disagree on Silver being a PM or not. Let’s not go there again. 🙂
Mike and DK,
I just noticed this but do I sound old and retired????
Man I gotta get the the bike out and go chase some ladies. Hell I’m not even 50 yrs old yet..
DPS
Well, you know what they say, DPS… “50 isn’t old if you’re a tree”. 😉
“But I still want to know what people consider real assets?”
I suppose that everyone has their own definition of what “real” assets are… as opposed to unreal assets? Who knows? For me, real assets are things that tend to have some intrinsic value. This could be productive land, machines that can be used to make things, silver and gold, vehicles, preserved food and seeds, petroleum products, lumber and timber, clothing, tools, firearms, a whisky still, etc.
DPS: Hard assets would include commodities, like metals (particularly gold), real estate, and other tangibles (like guns and grub).
There are real estate deals out there for those inclined in that area or who have a construction trade to rehab properties.
I understand not everyone can purchase gold but I would rather have a few ounces of pure gold or some one oz silver bullion than 300 lbs of silver chain (cough, Daisy :-)).
For those on fixed incomes (as mentioned below or above depending upon the placement of this comment) I would suggest additional training of some kind, based upon a persons personal proclivity to enhance their income, even in their golden years.
Everyone must adapt.
Maybe it is gardening with solar greenhouses when you never gardened before. Maybe its an online business making custom … somethings. Maybe its releasing one’s fixation and becoming more flexible.
Maybe a lifestyle change is in order for some. For example, I am a member of GPAA, a gold prospecting club even though I own my own mining claims, and have a banking, real estate and financial background.
Last week I was out to some claims owned by the club in a historical mining district, where I witnessed many people (retired men and women alike) pursuing prospecting as a hobby.
If nothing else you get sunshine, fresh air, good exercise, and like minded people (guns, gold,etc).
These people do find gold. They may not get rich but they do find some gold. If you believe gold will increase significantly, then this is an option for some who are flexible, want good weather, exposure to the outdoors, and supplement their retirement at the same time.
Many were sporting some serious RV’s, motor homes, and assorted “toys”.
Now Arizona has long hosted “snowbirds” in their RV’s during the winter while our sun is shining. These particular “gold bugs” just take it a step further and hook up their RV to club hook ups instead of the RV park down the road.
Then many follow the weather and spend the summers in the mountains of Colorado, California, and Alaska doing the same thing on club claims.
That experience is not for everyone but it is an interesting example because club hookups for all utilities were $8 a night. That’s $240 over the course of a month for those living on SSI. The quality of life dependent upon the quality of your motor home and retirement income.
I thought it was interesting.
The key is that people need to understand that they must develop a plan and take some initiative, understanding that inflation will affect their lives for the foreseeable future.
Dk,
Well when you put it that way maybe I’m not as poor as I thought, got real estate, got guns and grub, got skills in all areas from rebuilding your truck or car to building you a new log cabin, have built my own greenhouses and raised beds. The only thing lacking is pm’s. but hey thanks for the response dude 🙂
DPS
PS In my world they call me mr. Fix it.
DPS: You sound like a rich man to me. Do you have solar greenhouses yet?
Dk,
All greenhouses are solar bud, but if you mean have I done passive heating in the soil, nope. If you mean have I set up a hydro system that works with a passive heating system as well as a solar pump to feed my plants then yes many of them and do you mean do I use dirt in these green house then no. Alot of people don’t know this but you don’t need dirt to grow plants
Old Hippy here dude.
DPS
Damn, Durango – this piece (comment) is your best yet. Finally, you write in a manner that I not only understand but agree with. You must have had a great christmas! I hope you have even a better New Years!
DPS: By solar greenhouses I meant solar panel powered to keep the space temperate and extend the growing season there in the panhandle of Texas.
DK,
Yes I built a couple of them very easy to do and as long as the sun is shining its great. Here in the panhandle we do have to use double pane windows to keep that heat in at night, but the can be built with old full view storms for next to nothing. Also by add a few water tanks painted black it will hold its temps well. I still havn’t plant all my stuff yet but my hydro system is working great, right now I am working on a cutting box or better known as clones.
DPS
DPS: Out there in the panhandle you have lots of wind. Try Southwest Wind Power out of Flagstaff AZ or some DIY videos on You Tube.
BTW wind turbines can multiply and increase the power of a wind by placing a “collar” around the turbine to increase turbulence.
Been wondering how a “megaphone” attachment might increase that wind flow if applied to the turbine too.
DK,
Yepp around here we have lots of wind, there is no need to increase it. We made a home made wind gen. with a alternator and a fan blade of a old truck worked great til the winds hit 50 mph, should have seen it go flying.BTW the panhandle is getting covered up with the biga– wind farms.
DPS
No. Corruption, taxes, and technology play a more vital role. We don’t need to gut our currency to stay competitive.
My bad DPS. I don’t know many people that are debt free who are not retired. In fact you are the first I have met that is debt free. Congrats on that, seriously. I am cheap as hell and still can’t see to attain that triumph.
Mike,
Its cool dude, I had to work my ass off to get there, but I’m there. Credit cards $0, cars and trucks and bikes $0 House $0 any and all loans $0. I am a bank worst nightmare. I don’t owe them sh-t. And I will not keep more then $25.00 in the bank..
DPS
I am debt free also, so make that 2 ($200 on credit card from christmas. gonna pay that when my government troll check comes) Gold= currency of kings silver= currency of gentlemen(a matter of opinion in my case) debt= currency of slaves.
BA: The harsh reality is that WE do have to gut OUR currency to be competitive. World consumers must be able to afford OUR products. They can’t.
They can’t because OUR currency makes OUR products too expensive for them. In fact OUR currency is so high when compared to the RmB that a catapillar tractor made in America, cannot compete on price with a similar (copied) chinese brand when both are sold on the East Coast of the USA.
Sound, stable currency is THE most important foundation of a healthy economy and a viable nation!!!
Anyone telling you otherwise is either wrong or attempting to destroy you, and is akin to telling you that a compromised immune system is good for your health.
The fact that other nations can’t afford our products is in part because of a sick US currency.
DK, you say that our currency has to be “gutted” to be competitive with the rest of the world. I assume you mean it has to be debased and I disagree. We can debase our currency all day long and still not be competitive with the rest of the world. The fact is that our currency is not the problem. Let’s do some math.
99% of the 7 billion people in the world would trade places with someone living at our lowest economic level. The world’s population is nearing 7 billion people – that 99% represents 6.93 billion people who are living below our lowest economic levels. This 6.93 billion people would trade places with any one of the 310 million people living in America – that’s a lot of people. So, the question is – how much would we have to debase the dollar to create a world-side “level economic playing field”? I would surmise that our dollar would have to be debased so drastically that Americans would have a hard time just buying food. The point is that it’s not mathematically possible to debase our dollar without positioning the American standard of living to that of the 99% living outside of the States. I don’t believe any American would want that.
Now, to the problem – the problem is not that our dollar is worth more than other countries’ currencies and needs to be debased. The problem is that the cost of producing goods and services in America is way, way too high – it’s as simple as that. Two of the biggest culprits are pension and health care costs which U.S. employers incur on behalf of their employees. Consider this: the average pension cost impeded in a GM car is $1,200 – the average pension cost of a Japanese Toyota is $200. And that didn’t come from me but Warren Buffet when he was interviewed on 60 Minutes last year. Also, do you know how much pension and health care costs are incurred by businesses in China and India? Zero. This makes it extremely difficult, if not impossible, for America to compete with Japan, China, and India.
In fact, GM acknowledged that from 1993 to 2007 it spent $103 billion to fund pensions and retiree health care. During the same 15 years, GM paid only about $13 billion in shareholder dividends. GM has been spending a lot more money on its retirees than it’s been spending on its stockholders. The fact is that pension and health care costs are epidemic in America and not only adversely affects businesses such as GM, Ford, GE and other companies but also the federal, state, city, county governments. I believe the estimated cost of underfunded pensions and other financial obligations is currently in excess of $110 trillion dollars.
Let’s talk about a company in China called “Foxconn”. They produce the I-Phones and I-Pads for Apple and have around 900,000 employees. Foxconn employees get the Chinese equivalent of about $130 for about 240 hours of work every month. These employees make about $0.54 (54 cents) an hour. How do American workers compete with someone making just over half a buck income per hour?
The average auto worker at GM makes about $29 per hour. After factoring in benefit costs such as pension and health care costs, the average per hour cost to the employer is $70. $29 to $70 – an unbelievable jump in the cost of one GM worker. And, compare the $70 an hour to a Foxconn employee making only 54 cents an hour. This is a huge disparity that cannot be solved by debasing our currency.
Debasing our currency to a level to compete with foreign work sources? Like I said, we would have a difficult time just finding the money to buy food. Gutting our currency, as you say, is not an alternative for America.
Larry Peters: Larry a “compromised immune system” accurately reflects the economy, but that is where the analogy ends.
It does not apply to the dollar, except that a strong dollar is one of the causes of OUR balance of trade deficit (which is designed by the GB’s to transfer American wealth to their offshore factories).
The reason the economy is “sick” is because the dollar is too strong globally when compared to the economy of other nations.
IE China is about 6 Rmb to the dollar; Mexico’s peso is about 10-12 to the dollar, and Russia’s Ruble is about 36 to 38 Rubles to the dollar.
The average Chinese worker makes the equivalent of $.50 an hour or $5 USD for a TEN hour day.
Tell me, Larry, what American products a Chinese worker can purchase on $5 per day even on “layaway” when it takes half of their daily income to eat?
Need I example the ability of Mexican or Russian consumers to buy American products?
Larry you have swallowed the propaganda, but do not understand the relationship between trade, exchange rates, and economics.
” The harsh reality is that WE do have to gut OUR currency to be competitive. World consumers must be able to afford OUR products. They can’t.”
Problem is, if we keep this crap up, WE won’t be able to afford our products either!
All countries seem to be in this mad currency race to the bottom. OK, fine. So what happens when we get there? Do we all declare economic victory and go home or what?
41MagMan: Just caught your post and question. Obviously the race to the bottom is a fools’s game and everyone can’t get to the bottom or remain there for long if they do.
That is the source of the Great Deleveraging that is happening now, across the board. It will continue as world export production is moved from China to Turkey and others.
I believe the answer is FAIR TRADE. That is the system that was in place before GATT, NAFTA, WTO, and Most Favored Nation bullshit.
Trade agreements were negotiated individually between nations and Trade Agreements were not “fast tracked” but reviewed and approved by Congress.
If there were unfair trade practices (ie dumping, etc) tariffs were placed upon goods and services to balance the monetary trade gap between nations.
As it stands the current system of FREE TRADE sucks the wealth out of America and transfers it to companies and factories owned by the UR and GB’s offshore.
Why should it be cheaper to grow cotton in Egypt, ship it to China, manufacture t-shirts and underwear in China, and then import T-shirts and underwear into the United States; when We can grow cotton in Mississippi and produce underwear and T-shirts in Alabama?
These are artificial prices established to support the wealth transfer from Americans to the UR investment class.
It is also a waste of expensive energy.
@Dick in Denver,
99% of everyone on Earth wants to come to America to live in government housing and collect food stamps?
You honestly think that 99% of the people in Europe are dying to come to America? Canadians? Aussies? Japanese?
That sort of ludicrously ignorant jingoism is something I didn’t expect to see on a site like this. The U.S. is an authoritarian police state and in a state of near economic collapse. Our real unemployment rate is over 20%. You think Canadians, who actually have a higher per capita GDP than the U.S., are dying to come here to be raped by the TSA and unable to find a job? Even the people from Mexico and South America have been going home in recent years.
I’m one of the 15% of native born white Americans that wants to emigrate OUT of the U.S. Probably to Germany or Australia, both of which have far better governments and far better standards of living than the U.S. has seen since Reagan.
You are assuming that all the countries that own treasuries, trillions of dollars worth, are going to be okay with us devaluing the dollar 15% per year. Why wouldn’t they dump our dollars and cut their losses. How then do we control our inflation?
Mike: Countries don’t have to be “cool” with US dropping the value of OUR dollar. Sovereigns don’t matter.
Goldman Sachs rules the world.
That is the struggle in Europe now, between the Sovereigns (read Germany)and the GB’s. That struggle has already been won in the US: it was the bailout called TARP.
Note that the GB’s wanted the Sovereigns to commit their gold to the ECB as collateral for Eurobonds. It didn’t happen. Germany won’t play the GB game.
US dollar depreciation is the price that China must pay for US to have pulled them out of the Aftermath of the Cultural revolution and made them multi-millionaires by transferring OUR wealth to them.
The CCP can complain all they want in public, for public consumption, but behind the scenes they are smoking Cuban cigars and drinking the best Scotch money can buy.
After all, “Wealth is glorious!”
The US will stumble along like it is for years on the brink of deflation with inflation behind the scenes (all thing remaining the same).
When dollar parity (or a reasonable facsimily thereof) is reached with the Chinese RmB, It will be cheaper to purchase products made in the US rather than China.
Inflation is too many dollars in the hands of consumers chasing too few goods.
The FED can extract dollars from the system as easily as they can put them in. That is how inflation is controlled. That is why hyperinflation cannot occur here unless it is deliberate.
Hyperinflation would destroy the wealth of the one percent. Not gonna happen.
Here is where I would dissagree with you. Tarp was no solution, it was a band aid to buy time for this country to grow out of this recession. The banking industry is in no better shape today than it was in 08.
There can be hyperinflation in this country. If foreign countries decide to dump their treasuries and like I said it is trillions and by you own definition “too many dollars chasing too few goods”. The fed cannot act fast enough to remove to excess dollars. It doesn’t have to be hyperinflated on purpose, when we went 3trillion in the red to china we gave them that ability. While unlikely it is definately possible, just like waging war, but with currency destroying you enemy. If china were to dump the dollar, it would set off a chain reaction and literally be a race to the bottom for the dollar.
Hyperinflation would modestly hurt the wealthy. They have abilities with offshore accounts and hedges that the middle class simply don’t have. All types of inflation steals from the middle class. If there were to be hyperinflation in this country, the elites would simply move to their vaction home in another country and ride it out over there.
Mike: LMAO! TARP was not a solution for who? US? It wasn’t designed to be a solution for US. That is the big lie.
It was designed to be the solution for the GB’s who had bankrupted their banking business through mismanagement; yet they still own the equity in their companies.
That stock by right should belong to the American people. The GB’s haven’t lost a single nickel and are pocketing billions of dollars in profit.
TARP was designed to recapitalize the GB member banks of the FED and provide them with (1)liquidity to shore up their balance sheets and (2) as an ongoing profit mechanism.
Actually it is in a better condition than it was in 2008 for the two reasons identified above. WE are no better off than WE were in
2008; but the banks and multi nationals are in great shape and hold tons of cash.
It was never intended to do anything for US.
As far as China dumping OUR dollars it would destroy their economy and put the CCP power structure at risk for their lives!!!!
The Chinese are not that stupid. You don’t get it. The GB’s and the CCP are PARTNERS!!! Its not about the US and China.
Its about which “family” exercises control over the organization.
Oh hell theres TARP , LOL, On that note night chya’ll
Dps
chya’ll = good night all
hi dk! Are you a CPA? Is it true that some people in the financial industries have to go to federal reserve seminars and such, to get credits for their continuing ed for their licenses? You really sound like bernyankme when you say hyperinflation can’t happen here(not trying to offend, chill, i’m just pointing it out). I thought hyperinflation is loss of confidence in a currency, not money supply?correct me if I am wrong. P.S. I could not reply to your “nuts” comments above due to no reply button. No, I am not ex mil. So what you are saying is ANYONE who hasn’t served has NO nuts, and EVERYONE who has, HAS nuts? Interesting,(man I wish I could have called for airsupport, and back up during the riots) anyhow, The old man “served”(he cant hit the side of the barn now, he’s 76,eyes), I told him that, he laughed. I give respect to people who served you bet your a$$(God bless the marines, may he be with you always!!), but mccain, yeah I respect WHAT he did back then, but for what he is doing now, to our country, no pass, he is a traitor to the country, to the constitution, and to the oath he and his admiral daddy took. I am not going to respect mcclown, he is an ass wipe!
“How then do we control our inflation?”
Instead of exporting our inflation to others for them to deal with, we could “man up” and deal with it right here. A good start would be to stop printing the dollar to extinction.
41MagMan: Do you think We are exporting OUR inflation to others? No sir! We are importing inflation from China.
Salaries and incomes are not rising in America. WE are in the Great Recession. demand is down. They are declining. In real terms the American family is worse off than it was 3o years ago.
So why are prices rising when costs are not rising in America?
Costs and prices are rising in China. China is exporting its inflation to US. Profits for investors in China, until recently, have been increasing.
These increased profits represent increased prices IE inflation for US.
I’m not convinced about the argument that for a nation to prosper, it needs to devalue its currency. Sure, exports would rise, but the wealth gained would be offset by wealth lost to inflation. It seems to be a zero-sum gain. The British and the American export industries did just fine in the late 1800s, and I believe their currencies stayed fairly stable.
The whole argument to devalue smacks of Keynesianism to me. I’d think industry takes root and invests in nations with a stable currency, backed by gold, because of the confidence it gives. I think too many people have been brainwashed by Neo-Keynesian economics.
Gavin: You are naive. That is the NWO party line that you have come to accept. Its the GB’s that run global commerce.
The FREE TRADE system is designed to enrich them. Anyone else making money off of it contributes to their bottom line. Any country that profits from it is secondary.
To get the politico’s of any country to support your quest for financial world domination you must make your partners rich too.
Believe me if these Greedy bastards could get what they want without bribery they would do it. Every nickel to them is more precious to them than the life of any person.
DK,
Sounds like the mafia
DPS: The mafia is green with envy! 🙂
DK, my take on the “free trade” system is that it benefits everyone. Free trade is not a living creature that selects who to benefit and who to screw. The screwing comes from greedy and evil people who abuse the “free trade” system. You can look at countries that don’t utilize “free trade” and you will find the same thing there – greedy and evil people screwing people. It has nothing to do with the “free trade” system but everything to do with greedy and evil people!
In fact, Henry Ford used the assembly line and “free trade” to make and sell cars. He paid his workers very well and was criticized for that. Henry Ford’s reply was, “They will buy our cars and will become our customers!” This mind set was the major player in creating America’s middle class.
God blessed our country with four things: (1) a vast supply of natural resources; (2) a democratic republic; (3) the free enterprise system; and (4) our Constitution. Unfortunately, all four blessings have been misused by greedy and evil people. However, as I said before, despite that, all in this country still benefit.
Are we on the downside of the slope called “America’s standard of living”? Yes, but it isn’t because of the “free trade” system, it’s because of greedy and evil people.
“I think too many people have been brainwashed by Neo-Keynesian economics.”
Agreed… and we all know what accompanies over-washing… shrinkage! :-/
I’m reccommending my clients invest in shotgun shells, and canned food…-Stripe
durango kidd
“The dollar MUST decline in value if America is to get its manufacturing base back and renew its economy anytime soon. WE must become competitive again in world terms.”
I don’t like it but I don’t disagree. One thing to also state. The above comes with a like reduction in standard of living. We (and the developed world) drop and the developing world rises. It’s a race to the bottom.
“It will be about a 10-15% per year decline for 5 years before it stabilizes.”
Thats about a 50-60% drop in standard of living.
“You can use double digit inflation to your advantage if you are smart. Get smart. Embrace a decline in the value of the dollar by holding real assets.”
There is no advantage here. At best you will maintain but certainly not gain. The nation is loosing wealth and it’s as simple as that. We all loose; just some more than others.
K2: You are right it will be a real decline in the quality of life of most people, which is why I urge people to adapt and develop new skills to increase their income or produce like kind something that is as good as..
Because my wealth is in gold, the quality of my life will increase while that of others will decline.
“”Because my wealth is in gold, the quality of my life will increase while that of others will decline.””
Yeah, right. You sound like a bankster equating the quality of your life with the value of gold, or the quality of someone elses because they have no gold.
durango kidd
I guess we disagree on the increase in standard of living gold or not. At best you might maintain assuming there is no disruptions in the supply of things. The rise in gold will be pretty much in proportion to the increase in money supply. The rise in bread for example will be proportional to the rise in money supply and overall supply of bread. Let there be shortages due to a host of factors one being labor troubles and that loaf of bread or gallon of fuel can well outpace the increase in gold price.
I see no increase in life quality. Hospital care will decrease. Infrastructure will be worse. Supply of everything will reduce and hence prices rise beyond the classic “Too many dollars chasing too few goods”.
If you manage to stay the same you will one of a small percentage.
Gold investors will be hurt badly
http://www.ubm1.org/?page=goldhoarders
I am still buying pre 65 silver coins though, they are the most affordable PRECIOUS metal for the common man, when the mines run out, they’ll really be my PPPRRREEECCCIIIOOOUUUSSS . And I am not buying them as an investment, but for barter value later down the road and maybe a hedge against inflation someday if SHTF holds off long enough
God’s Creation? How well will that AD Sense income feed you after 5 years of double digit inflation?
Keep prepping?
DK – You said, “Because my wealth is in gold, the quality of my life will increase while that of others will decline.” That may be a valid statement but can also be incorrect. My take is this. Over the history of mankind, gold didn’t mean anything. Land, food, water, clothes, safety, and shelter was what was important. Gold became valuable when people starting coining it for commerce and wearing it as jewelry.
There can come a time when gold once again becomes valued as worthless to people as they try to survive by forging for food and other essentials. These people will be more interested in bartering for essentials without any thought or regard for gold; after all, you can’t eat gold.
Also, our government can and may once again confiscate our gold. But hey, they may buy it at a “fair” price of $100! Remember F.D. Roosevelt screwed people in 1933 by paying them $20.67 an ounce and then raising the “fixed” price to $35 an ounce. As Rep. Pete Stark said in August 2010, “The federal government, yes, can do most anything in this country.” So we have to realize that the possibility of gold confiscation is a real possibility.
I also have gold (as well as other “material” things) to use as a hedge against a falling dollar. However, I consider my wealth to be my health and intelligence which will get me a lot further in life than gold will.
DK, I hope what I have said doesn’t sound like I’m criticizing you because I’m not (at least not intentionally). I’m just sharing my thoughts relating to the use of gold as wealth – it can be but it might not be.
“after all, you can’t eat gold.”
OMG! I think that if I hear this one more time I am gonna go ape s***. Can’t eat gold, huh? Well, so what? I can’t eat my boots, my truck, my land, my tools, or 1000s of other things that are damned useful. Gold and silver ARE money and have been for thousands of years. If we have real money, we can barter and trade for what we need and don’t have. Paper money is just that… paper with ink on it. You probably could eat paper money but the nutritional value is zero, it’s difficult to chew, and it tends to stick between the teeth. Some medium of exchange is needed because not everyone who has what we want will want what we have to trade. Gold and silver have been universally accepted as money for at least 5,000 years. That is a pretty decent record. It beats unbacked paper money by a time factor of more than 100 to 1.
I do believe gold will play a part in the future of currency.I believe that some counties, including ours, are now positionig themselves for this. China, I think has far more gold than anyone knows. ..trillions of dollars worth.After all,they have been using it for thousands of years. In WWII Japan looted hunreds of tons of it and took it home. When the war was over, the US took this as war booty. Being as China was our ally then, they wanted it back. What the US did was say “here are some 60 year bonds instead”, Well, from what I gather, these bonds came due several years ago, but we would not give China their gold. I believe they are right now sueing the US in court to get it back. They also have a lot in Taiwan that probably would be re-patriated if they wanted to.
BJ: Thanks for the link. I am not a “hoarder of gold”. I am a “producer of gold”; the location of which was given to me, by the Lord, in a dream, on my birthday some years ago.
The Earth is the Lord’s and the fullness thereof …. he can impart it to whom he will.
My trust is in the Lord and I cultivate my personal relationship with Him every day.
If you read my words again in the post above, you’ll see that I specifically and purposefully used the word “investor” in place of “hoarder”, hmmm? wonder why that is?
But then again, you already knew that, you know everything 😉
Just curious here, why do you feel the need to tell me the earth is the Lord’s and explain to me that He can impart it to whom He pleases? Something bothering you? you sound a little defensive in this post….just sayin!
And again, why tell me of your cultivating your relationship with Him everyday?
Are you looking for affirmation?
BJ: I actually listened to your link. He used the term “hoarder”.
I felt the need to tell you because you have been unemployed for quite some time. I guess the job at the nuclear plant fell through?
You have also mentioned several times over time how you wish you had money for this or that or could do this or that.
God gives the power to get wealth. Need a job? Take it to Jesus.
Do you think I need your affirmation? I am a man not a boy. 🙂
Durango, you used strong words – good for you. The best investment in life is to trust in Him. And, it sounds like you do.
He used the term “hoarder”, I however did not, and for a purpose, you obviously missed it.
I was unemployed for a longer than anticipated time for a reason, and I now see what it was and know it was a good one.
I start a new job next Tuesday after 14 months unemployed, but I can see why things have gone the way they have, and am very much looking forward to not only getting back to work, but also learning new things, gaining very valuable experience and making better money than ever before in my life, and I don’t have to go on the road.
Your post came across a little different to me than your explanation of it, but hey it’s your post and your story. And if, according to you, your not looking for affirmation, then your pride is showing through….then again, that’s normal in 99% of your posts.
BJ: Glad you are back to work. Good luck.
Why don’t we just REPUDIATE FREE TRADE? Why don’t we, as a country, quit trying to be the world’s police person and ‘Big-Daddy-Gernerous’ to all the nations of the world??? Why don’t we bring all of our troops home from all around the world, butt the fuck out of other people’s affairs and start minding our own business??? Once we begin diverting all of money wasted on these endeavors to beginning to repair and replace ALL of our rotting infrastructure; then there won’t be any unemployment! Reopen and refurbish the factories and begin making clothes and shoes, etc. in the United States. We’ll all be back to work and busy rebuilding our once great country.
And then reality sets in once again.
Lowering the value of the dollar caused people to ask for more dollars to try and stay even with the previous year. That caused the companies to seek cheaper labor overseas and by insourcing. In the process we lost our manufacturing and destroyed our demographics. This can’t be fixed. Sort of like, you can’t get there from here.
Porter Stansberry has been warning of this for over a year now and he has some very compelling examples. I think the daily crux is where I read those interviews with him. Also talks about it on his endofamerica videos.
China has been trading with S. American countries for a couple years in the Reminbi.
If you want to imagine social upheaval, imagine how many social programs we’d have to cut to balance our budget. If we loose our reserve status that will have to happen.
This has been coming for years. This country needs to learn to live within it’s means.
There are some other options here as well.
End foreign aid -we can’t afford to give our wealth or our food (which will feed us!) away.
Tighten up requirements for being admitted to America, we have enough people here sucking up resources.
Cut military spending -YES, I said military spending, this alone is an unbelievable amount of money.
Make Senate and Congress minimum wage jobs without benifits and with term limits.
Eliminate all the crap in the so-called tax code. Make it simple, everyone pays the same percent of their income regardless of how much or how little they earn.
Oh, the really obvious one END THE FED and go back to a currency that is backed by gold, silver, and other precious metals.
Just a few of the many things that can be done to stop our “death by thousands of cuts” as a fellow I know likes to say 😉
what you propose are great ideas. But, unfortunately, unles we have a collapse, and a change of the idiots who are running our country, things won’t change. Just electing a few new faces in congress isn’t going to change anything. Except for the possibility of Ron Paul getting elected and making changes, we are way past elections making much difference. when the entire system is corrupt, there is little that can be done, except starting from scratch again. we are headed there now.
The bad part will be the trip to get there. much bad times ahead folks. get ready for it.
I like it FedUp and agree…….with the exception of gold and silver backed currency….wasn’t Lincoln’s Green Back a debt free currency that wasn’t backed in a PM? I can’t remember exactly how that was put in the documentary Money Masters….a must see!! But if I remember correctly they said that a gold backed currency wasn’t the answer either cause it was still susceptible to shananigans, but that the answer was to go back to Lincoln’s Green Back. If I am mistaken and remembering wrong, I apologize.
BJ – here is how it went:
Lincoln approved the printing of 450 million dollars worth of the new bills using green ink on the back to distinguish them from other notes (thus they were called “greenbacks”). Lincoln said (and this is important), “The government should create, issue and circulate all the currency and credit needed to satisfy the spending power of the government and the buying power of consumers….. The privilege of creating and issuing money is not only the supreme prerogative of Government, but it is the Government’s greatest creative opportunity. By the adoption of these principles, the long-felt want for a uniform medium will be satisfied. The taxpayers will be saved immense sums of interest, discounts and exchanges. The financing of all public enterprises, the maintenance of stable government and ordered progress, and the conduct of the Treasury will become matters of practical administration. The people can and will be furnished with a currency as safe as their own government. Money will cease to be the master and become the servant of humanity. Democracy will rise superior to the money power.”
But, we didn’t learn from Lincoln. In 1913 congress created the Federal Reserve. And our country changed from being a creditor nation to a debtor nation – that is why the federal income tax system was also created in 1913. What the hell happened? How did our country in 1913 allow this to happen? Why are we still allowing the banking cartel to run the printing presses, lending us the money and charging us interest to boot?
Mike: It is not about this country living within its means. Its not about who pays the taxes either. And I would submit that corporate welfare far outstrips any “entitlements” that American citizens receive.
This is the MSM line on behalf of the UR, globalists and GB’s. WE borrow because OUR production has been moved offshore.
That offshore production was built with American depositor funds.
We borrow because OUR spending surpasses OUR revenues.
OUR revenues are inadequate because the US taxpayer subsidizes Big Hydrocarbon one trillion dollars every year, creating a loss of hundreds of billions of dollars of tax revenues.
The tax system is skewed so that the largest corporations do not pay any taxes at all. Thus any costs and debt incurred by the USA falls upon the US Taxpayer.
OUR revenues are inadequate because WE subsidize illegals to the tune of $300 billion dollars every year to live and breed in the USA.
OUR revenues are inadequate because OUR balance of trade deficit this year was about $700 billion dollars.
$300 billion dollars represents the trade deficit with China. $100 billion represents OUR trade deficit with Mexico, to name just two.
This trade deficits represent a subsidy of GB owned offshore factory interests in China, Mexico, and elsewhere whose currencies are PEGGED and manipulated to make US products more expensive and theirs cheaper.
The GB exploit the cheap labor and lack of rules, regulations, and environmental laws in these countries to maximize their profits at the expense of the US taxpayer.
These relationships are ARTIFICIAL and designed to suck the wealth from America and line the pockets of the UR, globalists, and GB’s.
If all of that were not enough, the US taxpayer subsidizes the Wars of crony capitalism designed to project the phony FREE TRADE system across the globe.
WE subsidize the defense of Europe and Great Britain. These subsidizes are paid to the MIC to benefit the GB’s, UR, and Globalists who are all one and the same.
DK – it all adds up to a perfect economic-financial-social shit storm.
I read these articles every single day and love to hear peoples opinions. But do you guys honestly think it will be a complete breakdown and there will be riots or will we get some new currency and things will be normal, id like to honestly know your guys opinions on this. Have food and thousands of rounds shotgun 9mm 45 acp .17 and .338 laupa about 500 rounds. that was a lot of money, but my question is guys do you think a social breakdown will happen or martial law and will be fire back?
We can’t even celebrate a stanley cup or college national championship or go christmas shopping without rioting. Can you immagine what happens when no medicare check, ss check, welfare check comes in the mail?
The checks will not stop. Mark my words. They will not stop because of they do, there will be blood in the streets and the people would blame the government. No, what will happen is that the price of goods will rise and no one will be able to afford a loaf of bread. At that point, the people will blame the grocers. One thing this government is REALLY good at is dodging responsibility for ANYTHING. What will eventually happen is that the grocers will say “screw it!” and leave. Eventually, all that will be left is government food outlets in the city because no one will want to risk selling there. The people will starve. It will be slow and painful.
I think the US Government has this figured out pretty well. Agenda 21, the slow, painful way. Deny culpability. Point the finger at the greedy farmers and grocers.
Our government has been lying to us with impunity for years. The sheople just bleet and ask for as much as they can get. This is where the herd mentality leads you: to slavery.
I feel very sorry for those that will starve in the next few years. Survival of the fittest, or the smartest. Its a shame really. Lots of smart people have been dumbed down to prepare for this. My heart aches for those that can’t see it.
I have never thought of it that way. Makes complete sense. That would also open the door for the government to take farms and producing land, and the masses would cheer them on. Interesting Thanks
Net,
Sorry brother I could only give you 1 thumbs up. People have been dumbed down so much it scares the hell out of me. Chances are that 1/2 the folks that have bought prepps don’t have an idea as how to use them. Let me ask this shtf gang how many of you have bought a simple fire starter? How many of you have bought your heirloom seeds?
Now the big one how many have tried to light a fire or grow a heirloom plant? Just something to think about.
DPS
Great thoughts there NetRanger.
To DPS. I and my dad in his late 70’s have been gardening for at least 40 years. I have all kinds of heirloom seeds. Green beans, crowder peas, cukes, 3 tomatoes, cantaloupe, corn, cabbage, lettuce, beets…
I have helped several of my neighbors start gardening, and several of them are quite good at it.
We have a community garden at my church and all of the men and most of the women pitch in. We will be able to take care of our own provided we can get thru the long period of violence that is surely coming.
Recently, I ordered a 6 gallon bucket of firestarter @
http://beprepared.com/product.asp_Q_pn_E_CL%20S095_A_name_E_CL%20S095.
I have plenty of wood and a woodstove. I hope I never need any of it, but, think I will need it all and then some.
Have to agree that the checks, direct deposits, etc will keep coming. They just won’t buy much. Americans in general have been living in a fantasy world for a long time. Look how many who are considered “poor” have cable and a flatscreen TV to watch it on. As a nation, we have been paid more and have paid less for everything than the rest of the world for a long time.
The slow grind will be puncuated by crises along the way. I have been hearing about “the new normal” for about four years now. It keeps getting defined down.
Oh! Mike! I never thought of that! Yes!!! This would allow for a complete socialization of our production by the taking of farms, processing, distribution, etc. All by the will of the sheople. What total and utter evil can a man have in his soul to subjugate his conscience to allow him to participate in this? This is why I don’t use banks. They’re all part of it. I haven’t used banks since the late 80s except for checking. The whole scheme of currency manipulation (inflation) and other crooked schemes (fractional reserve banking) forced me to stop any sort of savings in banks. What, with the way they work with other crooked schemes (the IRS) and all, I can not in good conscience give them money to finance their evil deeds. I’ve got to stop talking about this stuff. If I keep it up I’m afraid I’d do something my Christian ethics would not approve of. …or, maybe they would? 😉
@DPS, I grow a garden every year with heirloom seeds, and have the bee hives for the pollination, bees are a very important part to the whole scheme
With respect to the gardening, I can’t emphasize enough how important it is to START NOW. If I had to depend on the harvest my first year I might have survived a week.
I am no where near a full year’s food supply, but the harvest increases every year. You have to have some room for trial and error – you can’t learn it all from a book or the ‘net.
What if you have a decent harvest one year but the seeds you save haven’t dried properly and won’t sprout? That’s just one example of how it can all go to heck.
I do NOT have a green thumb, but it’s a skill that can be learned. Learn it while there is still time to survive if your harvest fails!
Sounds like a few of us a getting ahead of the game and thats great. I suffered a complete loss on my tomatoes this yr due to drought. but that will not happen again. hydro system in place. And for you beginners when you get seeds buy some gmo also. And buy lots of seeds you never know. They maybe worth more then gold.
DPS
Great gardening tips Mother Earth News.
No ‘maters for me this year either, DPS. I had to buy a bushel at the farmer’s market for spaghetti sauce. 🙁
Daisy,
i know right I sure did miss picking some tomates and eating them while I mowed the back yard. Hey I spoke with seed savers exchange this morning and the tell me that all seeds will be shipped within a couple days. So get them orders in.:)
DPS
Highspeedloafer,
Sounds like you and your Dad are on top of it. Most of my growing exp. came from my married days and my Hippy days..LOL. The 6 gal of firestarter sounds cool, I carry a bag of cotton balls coated with vasoline in my b.o.b. If the lighters fail and the matches fail I always have the flint and steel. Now you and daisy got me shopping for new seeds this yr. LOL
DPS
Excellent point about the grocers NetRanger. You are 100% correct.
NetRanger,
Excellent points. And, you are right on target with the grocers because it has already happened before (and still continues to this day) – to the farmer who is saying screw it and leaving (we see the continuing trend away from the small commercial farms to larger corporate-type farms). Sad, very sad but unavoidable. As you say, the government is complicit to all of our problems. In fact, 60 Minutes covered this – I believe it was called “unintended consequences.”
Hey Eric,
I don’t comment much on here but I come here daily as well and often wonder the same thing. With so much news and so many layers of complexity to all the potential pit falls it’s so hard to imagine what could really happen. While I can’t say I’m certain about any particular outcome I can say that at no other time in my life have I ever been more sure that things are about to go sideways on all of us.
Around this time last year I was pretty oblivious. Now I can’t shake the very ominous feeling that all hell could break loose sometime soon.
ditto
I have often said that I expect a violent transition to a third world country, but did not believe martial law will come to America until I saw what the occupy movement was becoming. There are already confrontations with police and these protestors have full bellies. Imagine what things will be like when they are hungry.
Martial law will be used in an attempt to maintain order in the larger cities, but I simply do not believe they have the resources to enforce it in rural areas. It will be like when there is a really bad accident here and all the cops go lights and siren to the scene. We can pretty much drive as fast as we want and not worry about speeding tickets because they are otherwise occupied. Lay low and don’t make the big mistake because it is the nail that sticks out that gets hammered down.
Hungry people are lethargic.
Reread your bible. When there was a siege in Samaria, the people didn’t storm the palace or try to kill the wicked king. Prophet Elisha informed 4 lepers that the siege will be lifted, and the lepers told the city fathers. However, after it ended, the king and higher-ups of Samaria did what they used to do before, and gave no rewards to Elisha or the lepers.
And the people didn’t blame the king, whose sin brought that disaster to begin with!
Comenius,
I disagree with your comment. Hungry people are not lethargic. Hungry people riot, steal, kill, etc. They will do anything to get rid of the terrible pain of an empty stomach. Becoming lethargic is the last stage of starvation, just before death.
Here’s how it works. The first stage is low energy levels followed by pain, anger and fear (thus the rioting, stealing, etc.). In the second stage, the body starts fighting starvation by consuming its own fats and muscle stores. Once most muscle mass is depleted of its glycogen stores your organs start to malfunction (third stage), usually the kidneys start to go first.
In adults, death by starvation comes within 8 to 12 weeks. In the final stages of starvation, people experience a variety of physical, neurological and psychological symptoms, including hallucinations and convulsions, as well as severe muscular pain and disturbances in heart rhythm. At the end, just before death, the person will simply lie down and give up (i.e. the lethargic stage).
Normal?!?! Grab a copy of your U.S. Constitution. Read Article 1, Section 10 Paragraph 1. There you’ll find the definition of the only constitutionally accepted form of money allowed, Gold and Silver coins. Anything else is unconstitutional for extremely good reason. Idiot bankers cannot inflate away gold and silver. So they got rid of it and Americans were too stoned on drugs and free love to care back in 1971 when Nixon took us off the gold standard thereby driving a stake right into the heart of America’s future.
When, not if, the dollar collapses it will be epic. There isn’t anywhere near enough gold and silver above ground to provide enough collateral to stabilize the global banking system after the first domino falls. Did you see the video of that idiot licking the bottom of his new $180 Limited Edition Nike Air Jordan sneakers on TV? When the SHTF this miscreant and his gang banger friends will be out in armed gangs looking for food, fuel, water and anything else to survive on.
People are starting fist fights, shooting each other, and using pepper spray on other shoppers waiting in line for the stores to open over the holidays. And this holiday shopping! What are these depraved savages going to do when the shelves are completely bare and empty at Wal-Mart? They will lose their minds, and you better not be anywhere close when it happens.
Government, specifically Franklin D. Roosevelt, established the moral hazard knowing full well they would not live to see the day when the economic SHTF. They established the moral hazard and we will pay the price. Life will go on, but those who prepare today will be better able to cope with the approaching hardships.
BTW, excellent choice in cartridges. I like the .338 Lapua, but unless you’re a reloader and have a lot of supplies for it, it may be very difficult to find in an economic collapse unless you’re in law enforcement. I prefer the 40S&W, 45ACP, .223 Rem, and .308 Win.
Article 1 sec 10 does not apply to the form of government we have now! The constitution is DEAD(has been since 1913). The coinage act of 1792 is more good reading(obviously does not apply to our modern form of american democracy). Also read johnsons remarks about debasing the coinage, it is interesting.
Kevin, the Constitution is dead when We The People believe it is dead, not when the federal government tears it to shreds.
Personally, the final line in the sand is when the government claims the exclusive right to kidnap and kill Americans without a trial solely at the discretion of the president. When the front door is kicked in at 3am and they come to take us away, the decision to resist must have been decided well in advance. That’s where rubber will meet the road.
I’ll take a look Johnson’s remarks about the coinage. Thanks.
Well, here’s my ‘pinion.. worth about as much as your paying..
IF the dollar does collapse; there will be riots, food shortages, fuel shortages etc. But, there will also be a rapid replacement since commerce must and will continue. I personally would bet on a digital currency; but again, that is just my ‘pinion.
Many currencies have collapsed in relatively recent memory; but none have been reserve currencies.
I personally think that something inbetween a total collapse and DK’s often repeated ‘pinion of death by a thousand cuts.
Just look around though.. society has already partially collapsed or is in the process of getting there.. it just hasn’t reached all of our front doors yet.
SNS: That part of American society that appears to have collapsed represents the American wealth that has been transferred offshore via OUR factories and jobs by the GB’s.
It also represents the wealth of China and India. While I believe in “sharing” enough is enough as that sharing now threatens US.
BTW Thanks for the Freebie!
I think you might be right. Most of the time, an outcome to a problem lies somewhere in the middle, between total collapse, and a bump in the road. We are way past a bump in the road, but not up to total collapse yet, but it could happen. I do think there will be a million painfull cuts along the way though. But the way things go, it could be an overnight event also–who knows.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RRiILStjZWE
These folks were just buying toys.
Imagine when the dollar is worthless and the panic buying sets in.
NOTE TO ALL PREPPERS… if you were buying stuff on credit cards to transact or even posting on any posting boards about prepping topics…when martial law hits…you need to move your stuff to a safe place not on your premises. The feds will be visiting you house.
Food hoarding laws will kick in…
Time to bury the stuff deep in the woods.
Department stores need to install revolving security doors to control the flow of people entering the store. Clearly people have lost their collective minds along with all rational thought. And to think, the crap has not yet hit the fan in earnest! Unbelievable.
Containing this crowd would be easy if security had cattle prods.
For 3 years, C.A.S.H. only for everything…except powdered eggs and buttermilk.
Moving that much stock is totally not feasible.
look at how “FAT” they all are… lmao ;0)… like lil’ piggies at the farm rushing the feeding trough at FEEDIN’ Time! SOOOUUUUUU EEEEEE! wtf ;0P … We Lost the fight for FREEDOM before it even started!
“Dear Mr. NWO TPTB da’MAN, Please Bomb America Now! You are all Correct America is Lost!” Drop the BOMBS NOW!
BA-BOOM! ;0P
You are an idiot!
Screw the idiot and chief’s wife. After seeing this video, there is nothing to be proud of being an American. We have become even worse than ancient Rome was at it’s worst, and that take’s some doing. I am extremely saddened by this. I’m sure that this video is all over China’s major new’s network’s. Ha Ha, look at all the fat and dopey American sheeple. Get the 2 billion man Army ready, It’s time to implement the plan.
last year the department of defense released a report stating that most average 17-25 years (87%) were too fat to serve in the Armed Services… the us army has “the BIGGEST loser” FAT CAMPS! ~truth ;0P pssszzt
“look at the bright side we can always “roll em” down hills and drop em’ out of airplanes As “FAT BOMBS!”
WHIstlllllllllllllleeeeeeeeeee BA BOOM! SPLAT!
;0p Pssszzt
ninaorket,
Good grief, man! Most people on this site have something intelligent to say. But you? What is your major malfunction? Too many illegal drugs, dysfunctional, delusional, insane, maybe your momma dropped you on your head when you were young, or what?
This will all start in Oakland, CA first I think.
Maybe NYC. Just got my paycheck. Our house got hit with a $500 a month change to the withholding on payroll taxes. That will trigger us to not eat out. The first businesses to go under will be restaurants. Then retail. Bad times are coming. Get your bug out locations ready. I live in Buffalo, NY. Just down the way from that Target. Buffalo…the east side is like Detroit. Vacant houses, zombies walking in the streets. I live north of the buf. In the burbs, I see all the $400k rich houses for sale. I was smart and bought a double. My kid used to bitch about our apartment living after visiting her friends mcMansion…but now they are losing it. No buyers….evil bankers are drooling. They will short sell it and enslave the prior owners with the balance of the loan to pay off. It’s debt slavery. The real true evil are the bankers. My plan… daily I pour into IT books. I’m a database guy. My plan is to keep prepping on info. tech. That will always have me in a good job. Yeah I’m all prepped on the other stuff. I’ll go mobile when SHTF…to a safe location of the country where I can find a job if I need to. Best prep to make is your mind. Know that things are changing…don’t be pissed about it..just roll with it. All this you can squarely blame on the boomers. They got in control and look at what the “me” generation did. You will see a generation Y backlash against them in their old age. Many will be abandoned by their kids. This Christmas I was at a family gathering. All the boomers and silent generation were living it up and their kids were maxed on credit. I myself and struggling to pay down debt from the house remodel and some credit card. The currency collapsed by 44% since 2000. The economy will falter with folks like me not buying shit now…just paying interest to the banks and the stupid silent generation keeping their wealth…many in cash. It will be inflated away leaving us nothing. In a strange way…I’m glad I stocked metals. My retirement will not be spent in an RV traveling the country. Instead, I’ll buy some remote land around the country and snowbird it. Being a tent living seasonal gardener, living off the land.
Folks, view all this as a grand adventure. Any other mentality will find you depressed. So if I end up living in a tipi where my folks had a $400k house on the water…it’s just what it is. You still wake up, do your thing then go to bed each night. Know this boomers..as you all start dying off… I’m enjoying watching you all drop like flies. This is what you did to America. You were the generation that destroyed the most powerful nation in history. The end came when George Bush got us into a massive war. I’m talking both Bushes. It all stated there. Also, our backing of Isreal. Bad move. Summary… live your life. Keep accquiring silver…save it to buy your farm land. At retirement, get some chickens, a small tractor, a trailer and have enough woods to cut for firewood for heat. You’ll be fine. Don’t get all hung up in protest groups…you’ll find yourself in camp fema. You won’t change a thing. This has all been planned long ago. Make a game out of living cheap. I can easily live for a week on a few dozen eggs, a few gallons of milk, loafs of multi-grain bread and ect. You don’t need to go out for an expensive meal. Stay in, enjoy cooking again with food from your garden.
You biggest prep is in gardening. I just put in a massive seed starting light system. Stock up on fertilizers, seeds, you know the ones to get. Know that the goal is Agenda 21…a planet of slaves living in shoe boxes with no car and laws against BBQing. No shit. The new God will be the environment. Warren Buffet just bought a shitload of rail stock. That tells me the fema camps will be converted to the agenda 21 human settlement zones…as places like Detroit are reclaimed for farmland to feed the masses. You basically lived at the peak of human civilization. At least enjoy that you saw it all go down. The biggest trend I’m seeing is the sale of churches. There are 3 for sale on main st. in Buffalo, NY. Old folks dying out. Boomers hitting the sun belts. That all. Just change your mind, accept the NWO…me…I’m planning a career working for these fucks. It’s revenge of the cubicle dweller. I spend my days pouring though tech. books…learning new shit for my sites I’m working on. they thing I’m working on their shit. Yeah right. I feel like a plantation slave….just doing what I have to do. Yeah…I’ll be one of their “useless idiots”. Who’s the idiot. I have cheap healthcare, great pay and I don’t do shit for these fucks. That’s what they reduced me to. I work real hard…but for myself. Get used to it. They have done all they can to limit the creation of small business with their payroll tax enslavement. Shit..you start a business and you are the slave to the workers with their workers comp. costs and all the red tape. Folks, in the end just focus on the basics. Food, security, basic housing. Prep. up. To afford it, stop all vacations, kill the TV and cell phone. It’s all on the web. Take your lunch and learn to enjoy it. Walk slower, enjoy the day. Money was just an illusion. A device only used to enslave you. I’m digging out of debt now. I do the SET IT AND FORGET IT PLAN. I rigged all the debt to be paid off in 36 months. Go completely on cash. Cut up the cards. When you buy gas…walk in a pay cash. It’s not a big deal. Opt out of their electronic system of debt enslavement. Good luck folks. Mac, you’re a patriot man. Keep the site going. Folks, here’s your homework. Forward this site to all your friend. They might thank you later. Folks, provide more prepping ideas. Use craigslist to buy used shit and live low and lean.
You blame the “Boomers” and I find myself regretting I didn’t listen closer to my grandparents and father’s wisdom they tried to pass on to me. I go into town and talk to the old ranchers to try and extract their knowledge from the past.
It is easy to blame immigrants or the elderly or anyone else. But we all share some responsibility for the state we are in.
I have to agree with you Mike…20 years ago my parents were trying to tell me what was going on…the entitlements, corruption etc. I didn’t listen. I did not want to hear it. All just crazy talk and rants! Thought to myself as my eyes glazed over, they don’t know what they are talking about…things change with each generation and they just don’t understand this one. Damn!(kicking myself in the behind) I was the one that didn’t understand. I am as guilty as anyone else. I was young and starting to live my American dream…why would I want to hear about how screwed up things were and the terrible direction that society was heading in. It was CRAZY talk, as I am sure it is to the barely 20’s right now…they have nothing to base life on so they don’t see things as being abnormal. Blessings to all in the New Year. Be safe out there.
keep the ammo, store some food and be prepared for all possibilities.
I feel like I have a foot in 2 different worlds.
One foot is in this world where you need FRN’s to pay taxes and other bills to live in this world.
The other foot is moving toward and is about to step into the future world of hunger, barter, lawlessness with no law enforcement, etc etc etc
prepare in this world for the next and hope it never gets here
just look at history. it will answer all your questions. All that is coming has happened before. economies have collapsed many times throughout history. And to answer your last question, yes there will be social breakdown, and martial law will be declared. Why do you think they just passed the laws did??? because they intend to use them….Don’t listen to what the government says—pay attention to what they do….. they are getting ready for social unrest, and economic collapse. Shouldn’t you be getting ready???
Actually chaos is needed to ring in the next step on the hill. You guys can find the article, but this is an example of just how scared Congress is of the people, ALL Congress. The week after the Gifford shooting, a number of congress critters tried to coble together a rush bill, wherein, they would be allowed to carry concealed WITHOUT background checks and also IN the congressional chambers a big nono. A few more level headed folks interceded and killed it, forcing the constituents to go thru routine background checks before getting a CCW. That’s how scared they are, so seeing the NDAA pass, no surprise there. If they are that scared, you should be too.
I am all in favor of ANY citizen of the usa, having the god given right of self defence, but they a$$ clowns obviously think THEY only have the right to self defencs. This should prove to EVERYONE that THEY believe the laws they pass are for just US, not THEM. ” One of g. celente’s sayings.
Mac,
Real good info on the $. Here is more history from this year alone!
50 Economic Numbers from 2011 That Are Almost Too Crazy To Believe
http://www.infowars.com/50-economic-numbers-from-2011-that-are-almost-too-crazy-to-believe/
This sums up a major point:
“Of course the heart of our economic problems is the Federal Reserve. The Federal Reserve is a perpetual debt machine, it has almost completely destroyed the value of the U.S. dollar and it has an absolutely nightmarish track record of incompetence. If the Federal Reserve system had never been created, the U.S. economy would be in far better shape. The federal government needs to shut down the Federal Reserve and start issuing currency that is not debt-based. That would be a very significant step toward restoring prosperity to America.”
Y’all Beware!
Thx for the link. The evidence is everywhere for those willing to pay attention. The scary thing is that when it finally breaks and goes into meltdown there will be scores of millions of Americans and Europeans who will be caught by complete surprise. Panic…is an understatement for what will result.
The “timeline” for the precipitating event is much shorter than most “professional prognosticators” are willing to admit, or are aware of. The “jokers” in the deck of those trying to predict a relative “countdown” seem to rely almost exclusively on “economic” factors.
Iran is threatening to close the straits of Hormuz if sanctions are not abated/eased. Russia, China, Syria, etc. are “all in play”. Today, tomorrow, first quarter 2012, all have “real global world support” as factors that could start this “meltdown” at anytime. The Euro is hanging by a frayed thread. Batten down the hatches gang and stay vigilant.
It will not be “death by a thousand cuts”, it will be a rapid severing of OUR collective jugulars!
I fear for the future! We have attacked countless countries in the last 20 years,if we don’t win this coming war (which we most probably not, due to our industrial base beeing wiped out by globalism, unless we nukem) Will we be in future history books as the good guys? Or compared to nazi germany? For some reason I think of those pictures of german civilians after ww2 and wonder.
We are Rome revisited. The evidence is clear in every comparison, from the corruption of our politicians, to the lax morals and over stepping of our empire. We even have our own gladiators. The NFL
All we need to do to restore our standing in world trade is to end the Federal Reserve, repudiate the fraudulent debt, prosecute and hand the stockholders and their assets over to the debt holders, and issue debt free currency through the Treasury Department on a one to one exchange with FRNs in DOMESTIC circulation.
Too bad none of that will ever happen
I expect parts of what is now USA to ditch the Fed. No nation has lasted forever. The USSR is gone, and one could argue that many parts of it are better off for it.
The demise of USA will continue as a slow burn, but there are always wildcards. These things tend to spin out of control.
This is a good article and shows in cold hard facts the meltdown of the dollar. I don’t know the answers Eric but I was doing a lot of thinking today about what some of the differences in opinions I have read about here and there does seem to be a huge difference of opinion and it makes it a little hard to prepare. If we go to martial law on the major cities first as I would expect. Then the outlying rural areas have a chance to further prepare a defense. If it is the massive breakdown of society ditto. The difference being in martial law there is no defending what we have unless it is very well cached. But what I was thinking today as I laid out a hypothetical scenario of my place left me with only one really profound thought. In either case I don’t have enough people to defend it period. In either scenario all of us are going to be a lot more like our forebears. We are going to be a lot more vigilant of our surroundings and wary of everybody else. Preparing a bug out cache for when the main place cannot be defended anymore. Hate to think in these terms but do not think if it comes down to it that the place is defensible. On the thoughts of other countries devaluing our currency. Of course they are the real question is How will America be treated differently by countries that really don’t like us? I would think America would be doing everything in her power to safeguard our borders and future as a superpower, but I personally think most of the mega rich are planning their private jet trips to third world countries where they can hire private armies for a fraction of the cost. Irregardless of the circumstances it will suck.
Americans have grown fat and lazy, time to trim down. Those who are under 70 have grown accustom to a life style, based on infinite expansion, that can no longer be maintained. Plain and simple, our time has come. (That’s probably the only advantage of being “partially” awake).
Like all natural cycles in creation, expansion and contraction, followed by expansion and contraction, is normal. It just so happens, though, America pushed the limits on the expansion side, to the point where, rather than an easy period of contraction unfolding smoothly and naturally, we’re going to have to implode, i.e. “pop with great gusto” in order to bring back some semblance of balance to the system. Yes, we’re going to have some hardships and suffering, but we did it to ourselves, and, as we all know, as one sows, so shall one reap.
It’s going to be good, eventually. After we get accustom to living in conditions we thought only “third worlders” could subsist in, we too will get to orbit the third world globe of poverty and sickness a few thousand times (let see, about 10 to 15 years worth I’d say). It will be hard at first, but over time, we Americans, who have a knack for being the most creative country in the world, we’ll figure out how to make it all work. Yeah, we may lose half the population, maybe, maybe not, but think of the good side. If you are one of the fortunate ones, you may end up making a few silver coins a week doing lawn work for the rich hispanic elites. Muchas gracias, Amigo!
What comes around, goes around. Besides, that Dollar always seemed to leave selfishness, greed and destruction in it’s wake. I’d be happy bartering goods and services while leaving out the middleman. Trade some wholesome, organic, non GMO, freshly grown veggies for a deep tissue massage…clean deal, yum, yum.
Vios con Dios!
Ciao!
European American,
It’s gonna cost extra for a happy ending.
THE POLITICAL CLASS WILL NOT LET THIS COUNTRY UP OFF THE MAT..THEY HAVE BEEN BOUGHT AND PAID FOR FOR MANY A YEAR..BOTH PARTIES… LOOK AT OUR HISTORY FROM ONLY 1990
AND SEE IF YOU THINK THIS COUNTRY AND ITS PEOPLE HAVE GOTTEN BETTER…BUSH 1,CLINTON X2 BUSH 2 X2 AND OBAMA….DO YOU REALLY SEE ANY DIFFERENCE IN THEIR LEADERSHIP…EXAMPLE..ALL HAVE TRASHED THE CONSTITUTION..ALL HAVE LOST ALL COMBAT CONFLICTS..ALL HAVE SPENT TRILLIONS, SOME MORE THEN OTHERS BUT STILL BURYING THIS COUNTRY..YOU AND I IN UNPLAYABLE DEBT…AND NOW WE GET TO HAVE YET ANOTHER ELECTION TO CHANGE OR KEEP THE SAME LEADERSHIP AND CONGRESS…SEE ANY LIGHT AT THE END OF THIS TUNNEL…..1990 TO 2012 ????
I mostly agree, but I don’t know how you can honestly say we lost Operation Just Cause and Desert Storm. we acomplished everything we set out to.
Fog, do you really know what they set out to accomplish?
Get Pineapple puse, and kick Iraq out of Kuwait. We went in got the job done and left. We were’nt there for anything else.
The law has to be enforced or no one has reason to follow the law !
Presently there is lawlessness everywhere – The worst offender is government.
Unless this changes, and there is no sign it will change, this country will devolve into anarchy.
Quick, you are right – lawlessness is everywhere, especially in our government. The other day I was watching 60 Minutes to find out that we go to prison for insider trading (remember Martha Stewart?), which I knew.
Yet, Congress can actively and openly engage in insider trading. This is insane! We go to prison and Congressional members get rich. Just unbelievable! When will this type of insanity stop? Never, I guess. Its time to erect a guillotine (remember the French Revolution?).
I’m buying silver. When it all collapses..I’ll trade it for someone for their farm. I’m in the burbs..been reading about farm life. Where my folks run around the country in their third $2ook land yacht RV…I’ll be a poor farmer with a trailer, tractor and I’ll scrape by.
Obama you wanted a socialist slave. Ironic how the whites are the slaves to a black president. Not a racist statement..just an observation on history and how things are different. Better pull everything you have out of the market..the boomer “age wave” will come crashing down. Then cunts like Nancy P. will want to give you your “guaranteed” retirement account and steal it all. I really don’t care about it all anymore. Let is all crash. Go tangible folks, guns, ammo, bow and arrow for hunting, silver to buy land. Get a chain saw for cutting wood for heat, well water, deer and turkey for meat. I started slowly buying the things I’ll need for my retirement life. When it all crashes… it will be go time for my little post corporate slave/suburban slave to the commute to a country life. My bro laughs at me…about talking about the fema camps. The are real..being staffed and are ready to receive protestors. Better to say, screw it…move to the country and leave it all behind. Screw making money…they just take it or devalue the dollar. You lose any way you go. It’s real hard to tax firewood, deer meat, well water and garden veggies.
Yeah they have property taxes and such. I hope the remaining farmers band together and triple food costs. that will get folks in riot mode. I’ll be hiding in the basement. ha
Now that is funny! I read a blog today where nancy bangs like a screen door in a hurricane while on vacation in the islands. Right turn Clyde. I wish I had a basement. Credit is tightening up. Fast approval car loan for only 33K today. Stopped in the bank this morning to make a withdrawal when the ATM didn’t spit out another maximum amount on the 8th day in a row. I asked the Teller for $10’s instead of the usual ATM $20’s and doubled it up. She asked me if I was going on vacation. All I could think about was mushroom but I would have lost her. I’m ready for Au to go to 280 or 28000 Mac. Bring it… The tulip bubble is about to pop and I wish Madoff’s wife was my granny.
Man I hope that that will happen really, but food may become important than metals.
So you think someone will trade his/her farm which is or can produce/raise food such as veggies, potatoes, fruits, and eatable animals for silver? I don’t believe that will happen if SHTF. You can’t eat silver.
Out of the park!! What is that farmer going to do, move to that guys old place in the burbs?? WTF
It’s OK, man, pop another Prozo…
it FEELS LIKE-eww ,if you hvenn’t Taken A Turd in the Woods, U R in 4 a sweet……..Fuck all that. Why’z every-body always ……..
Yeah NINA-howz them blow up Daisys.
rn.daisy.im jusst playin.if u knew the reel…
What kind of lubricant is safe?
Hemp Oil.
Without a doubt we are acting like Rome. The Roman Empire transferred wealth via taxation. The empire collapsed by devaluing their currency. In it’s day trading was more of what we today would describe as regional. More like the Euro today.
As far as countries moving away from the US dollar, well it’s been going on for more then 2 years now. China has been clearing international trade with India, Russia and the whole Asian pack in yuan. I believe they have started clearing oil trades with the yuan.
The only thing saving the dollar is that every time a currency has a hiccup the world runs back to the dollar. Let’s face it folks the whole world and our own politicians are working against the US Citizens and the US Dollar. The Euro was created to knock the dollar out as the world reserve currency. The European Special Drawing Rights I believe were created in 1969 with the same intent. There was a lot of talk 2 years ago of the SDR becoming the world reserve unit.
If I remember Brandon Smith, Alt-Markets, Neithercorp Press did a really good article on SDR’s back in the fall of 2009, it’s worth a read.
Our own Government is no longer Of the People, By the People or For the People. Think about it!!!
The dollar fails the test as a safe store of value and as such is not really (by formal definition) “money”. Oh it’s fine as a unit of exchange as long as your quick about spending it (and even quicker in the future) but it’s not real wealth either. Real wealth is measured with a scale and comes in grams, ounces and kilos. Not in govt printed and issued to infinity, debt based paper promises to pay or worse yet, virtual digits floating around in cyberspace representing your….wealth?? Neither of which have withstood the tests of time. So does that sound like real wealth to you?? Real wealth is not faith based. Religion is faith based. And personally, I have no room in my financial survival backpack for any faith based investments, as I learned eons ago that if you don’t or can’t hold it in your hands, you don’t own it. For confirmation of this guiding light principle just ask those MF Global clients that are still waiting to be paid back and made whole. Anyway, got gold? Got silver?? Got real wealth?? Safely out of the banking system where you can get to it should you need to in an emergency?? That’s the kind of….faith I’m talking about. Faith in yourself. No third party (liabilities) required or desired.
Mac,
Thanks for the truth – Panic…is an understatement for what will result.
Damn Yental, it might just happen that way and I hope it’s sharp!
EA – Nice perspective.
Y’all Beware!
“…with some 95% of the precious metal being stripped from their coins by the time the empire collapsed in the 4th century.”
Hmmm. Is this a bad omen or what? Thats exactly where we stand today. The US Government in collusion with the Federal Reserve has devalued the dollar just about 95%. Is that the point where an empire dies when they manage to steal 95% of the peoples trust? Pre-65 silver coinage is worth about 23 times its face value. I guess thats more like 98%. How can these criminals get away with this?
Its time for the crash. Crash! Burn! Boooooooooooooom! These bastards need to get crushed by the enormity of the crimes they’ve perpetrated on the American people and the people of the world.
I sat down the other day and figured out what the problem is: in order to feed Washington’s thirst for spending, they have devalued the dollar, steadily and rather slowly. This has the effect of having the dollar worth less. While corporations are plenty willing to raise prices, they are very reluctant to raise wages. As such, the price of real goods keep getting higher and higher until, now, people can barely afford to live. Once all the value was decoupled from out currency, it could be completely manipulated. They’ve done this slowly until it has destroyed the entire world. One hell of a ponzi scheme. Bernie Madoff was arrested for this. Why are we not arresting these crooks? As you lay down to sleep tonight, ask yourself, “Why are we not arresting these crooks? What can I do to make sure they are arrested?”
I agree 100% with you NetRanger. In fact I saw an interview with madoff and he asked what was the difference of what he did and social security? And he said the gov’t was a worse offender because they are preying on innocent people and madoff said he took advantage of greedy people.
As far as the roman empire. I think that if you want to be able to predict the future, you need to become a historian. I think because of gov’t egos we are bound to repeat history over and over in cycles. Current gov’t thinks it has an ability to manipulate economies or people that former gov’ts didn’t have. Always end with similar results.
Keep in mind the amount of “money” needed to fuel the wold’s commerce is directly related to the population. There is simply not enough gold, silver, etc. to back all the currency needed by a world that has 7 billion people. This means the fiat currencies of the world can never be 100% backed with hard assets again.
As long as people accept promise backed currency based on faith, the world’s economic situation will survive in one form or another. When the faith in IOU backed currency fails, so to fails the entire commerce system and barter becomes the new form of payment.
Fiat currency only has value when someone wants it more than the labor or merchandise they already possess. When they start to lose interest in the fiat currency that triggers inflation which eventually triggers collapse.
Peace
FightNGear
Man between all this and kevin’s rant today this maybe a great night to open up a real asset. Got a bottle of Rare Breed Wild Turkey and The Alaska bootlegs bible.Sound like a good combo.
DPS
I know Ive said it before but theres a heck of a learning curve in living outside the system and to actually living as opposed to just surviving…planning is good,but if youre only planning it and not actively doing it…I fear for you.
I know that alot of people are only now waking up to the enormity of this mess and are not really in a place to unplug,Im not critizizing,jut hoping that those who are awake enough to understand will start doing what they can where they are and not wait until they have the right land or circumstances;as doing so will not likely get any easier in the days to come…planning is a good first step but only by doing will you stand any chance,get ahead of that curve or likely as not youll get behind it and that aint a good place to be when TSHTF…thanks!”Live free or die tryin”
Net Ranger,
We can let everyone know your thoughts, via email and spread the word.
To all that read this – it is really simple, Copy, paste and hit Send.
Y’all Beware!
Fight Now, Die Later!
BBC Television’s live production of George Orwell’s “1984″.
Produced in 1954.
http://totalcollapse.com/videos/
Going on for 30 years now. Seen it in the soaring prices of all essentials (gasoline, property taxes, house prices, food, college tuition etc.) for 30 years now, sure proof that the dollar’s value has been in free fall for a while.
Redneck2,
Back when I was a young boy, the theater cost 25 cents and you could buy a Coke for a nickel. Hamburgers were 25 cents and, if you wanted to add cheese, it didn’t cost any extra. And, there was no sales tax. What the hell happened? The Federal Reserve and greedy and evil politicians, that’s what. SHTF !!!
Now I understand why old people are so damn grumpy. I’m now old and I’m grumpy as hell.
Have been reading SHTF blog and others for about 3 years trying to understand what happened to this economy.This is my first comment(OPSEC). I think the whole crux of the situation lies in the fact that the Constitution has been effectively suspended since FDR put the country under martial law in the mid 30’s. In the article previous to this one Brian had a link to explain this. I will leave it up to you to search it out. but only the President can revoke this State of Emergency. No President since FDR has been willing to do this. This also was amended in 1973 to give the government the ability to seize virtually anything they want from us as “booty”. Yes they can take your food, guns and PM’s. WE are actually being governed under Admirality Law not Constitutional common law. The only President that should be elected is one who will suspend this “State of Emergency” and invoke the Constitution once again. I urge you to research this yourself.
I think onre of the basic causes has been our country’s tendenancy to go off on foreign war after foreign war, using the printing press for funding, all backed by nationalistic propaganda. History shows that one of the main factors leading to currency collapse is through empires running the printing presses to fund war adventures and foreign empire building- it’s happened with Rome, with Britain, with Spain. We’ve done it so fast because we’ve built a global empire larger and more monolithic than those who came before. Computerization helps too.
I really like that roman chart. On the bright side of this mess, according to that dollar chart it looks like there was a major dollar rally after ww1, sooo hopefully after ww3 we get the same percentage of the purchasing power back. Just imagine what about 50 mushroom clouds in the u.s. would do to the m2, and m3. Trillions would disapear in a milli second, and we wouldn’t have to worry about those pesky out of country dollars repatriotizing! Man, this government is brilliant!
I’m getting old. I have access to an IRA (which I have to give 20% in taxes for every dime I take out) and I am going to spend it like a drunken sailor. I am so convinced that a collapse is imminent (1-2 years) that I am going to go out with a bang. Me + money=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pIOOwhmkoLo 🙂
When I run out of money I have a bullet with my name on it. 😉
looks like it is on now, just a matter of time. I wish all you the best, be prepared in all manners and get mentally ready too. Have a happy new year and party well, take a cab or do it at home!!!! This is the last year that we will be this happy and able to do it as free citizens.
The FREEMEN WANT – YOU! ((+)) Arm Up and JOIN America!
It’s time American Patriots… time we FORM 5000+ persons strong, State Chapters an RANKS of FREEMEN! it’s time EVERYONE who reads here, posts here and understands what it is THEY the feds and bankers are doing to us and our children TO GET ORGANIZED!
It’s time we all create our own FREEMEN Chapters in our own states… the goal is 5000+ person strong in every state of the American Union , organize each chapter with elections by silent anonymous hand ballots every 6 months to ensure integrity, emergency ballots may be taken to change leadership if there is a 50% signatured request to hold an emergency ballot to challenge the head counsel and warchief!
All members must have 1 main battle rifle 5.56/.308 and a handgun 9mm/ 40cal… and body armor with chest plates!
It is TIME for WE THE FREEMEN! To GET ORGANIZED and FORM UP!
ALL may Join! Everyone! No matter your age, religion, sex preference, color or creed… the only requirement we have is that YOU Desire to be a FREEMAN or FREEWOMAN!
If your a Single Man no matter your back ground, with no place to call yours come to Montana… Commit No Crimes against Persons or Property – harm no one! And we will find a home , shelter , food for you here in Montana … It’s time we ALL CowBoy’d and CowGurl’d Up!
To Challenge the NWO Bilderboybuggers AND TAKE BACK America!
ninaorket is actually a Federal agent provocateur. You see them on almost every survivalist site, but for some reason Mac doesn’t ban APs.
Oh, please. He’s just a lil out there. I don’t believe for one second that he’s a Fed.
Coach,
Along those same lines, read this:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2079283/Tweeting-word-drill-mean-Twitter-account-read-government-spies.html
Note where we have to get the info about our gubment…..
@ole’cooch , your a truly phuckin’ moron… it’s OLD PHUCKS like you who will KEEP AMERICA enslaved! Keep posting shit about me and i will tear shtfplan apart , hackit and learn YOUR I.P. ADDRESS and kill your computers!
ya’ STUPID old peice of shit! YOU KNOW NOTHING YA’ PHUCKEN MORON!
YOUR THE PHUCKEN FED TROLL!
hey @ole PEDO cooch , isn’t it time you “CHECK-IN” with your “parole officer” …
Is this a mutual acquaintance, NinaO?
The word you used – “your” – should be “you’re” – is this a typo or a lapse in intelligence? I’m really not trying to be mean but just curious and asking.
Also, why do you use profanity? It only demeans you!
There was a saying in the 90’s. “if there were 5 men in a circle talking about overthrowing the government, 3 worked for the feds” Another good quote “those who don’t learn from history, are doomed to repeat it”. The uninformed sheeple will say this is defeatism quotes. An informed thinking person would read these quotes as a warning from the past.
gotta start somewhere @kevin… and the 3 out of 5 can be used for live fire exercises… as targets! ;0P
Kevin’s not really a “glass-half-full” kinda guy, NinaO.
Good morning daisy!
Come home Daisy. You’re not a hippie anymore.
Mornin’ Kev. Has the sun risen on a brighter day today? 😉
Every day! The system is totaly corrupt. We need 100,000 people in the streets, after all the fraud that is going to take place AGAIN! Another mcclaim fraud canidate wont fool everyone again, if eyes are open! Just trying to wake the sheeple!
HELLO MS. DAISY ;0p slurp , ;0) tank’s for having my back!
History shows it works out the other way around. Choose your “friends” wisely! God bless you, and your family! Some feds are patriots, some patriots are feds, some feds are just feds who think their are on the patriotic side doing the right thing, and some patriots are patriotic thinking their doing the right thing.If you believe in the founding, you are a patriot. If you believe in the system in-place since 1913, and you are fighting for that, doesn’t that make you patriotic, and a patriot? Makes your head spin! (it does’nt matter if you are a fed or a patriot, were all going to need his blessing at one time or another) Me, I love my country, hate what the government has turned into!
Kevin and Nina…..for 3-4% (the amount of population that fought on the good side in the Revolutionary war) it would be roughly 200,000 per state. Today’s times are different and the people are not on the same playing field as the govt as far as technology and other goodies. So you would have to notch that percentage number up.how much? who knows? my guess is considerably
BJ – wouldn’t there be a certain snowball effect? The numbers mentioned here would definitely be enough to get the word out about what is going on, and these actions would result in other people joining the cause. This sounds like a starting point to me, and a very good one.
@bj … all i want to do is create a nationwide “hardcorps” of freemen and freewomen to respond to the nwo plans of nationwide martial law! notice i said 5000 ((+)) , if we seize / take the state capitals of each state and the financial districts of each state it’s GAME OVER for the feds!
once we challenge the nwo cia owned thug cops and thugs feds head on – the rest of america will join us!
arm up stock up prepae for martial law!
I’m going to agree with Sam not sam, I can very well see us going to digital currency. They’re experimenting with it by being able to use your cell phone as a debit card.
As more countries pull away from U.S. dollar conversion,
the greedies will get desperate to usher in the One World Currency. Now, if they could only figure out had to medically implant that cell phone into peoples hands…
Some think we will go to the sdr on the international trades, and keep the dollar. The sdr is just another ponzi, just like the federal reserve note.
Love the history review Mac. I find it funny that folks use the argument that “the dollar cannot collapse”. We are so arrogant to think we are immune to the ills that toppled the other empires of the world.
But I guess all of those empires likely had the same type of naysayers.
China and Japan trading directly without the dollar is an important step in the death of the dollar. The biggest death-blow is coming and that’s when OPEC no longer accepts dollars as payment for oil.
When hyperinflation hits there won’t be electricity or public water either. When an electric bill is $1,000 a month it will price most people out of the market and that will lead to the electric company going bankrupt and no longer producing electricity. The same thing will happen to public water purification.
“What’s coming” is BARTER on an industrial scale. Say China needs item A, buyer has B but not A, second company has A but needs B, internet will make the deal three ways.
Barn Cat
That oil peg is the most holy of holy grail of US global dominance. Loose that and the glue, foundation and core of the US just falls apart, rapidly. For this reason the US will do ANYTHING to maintain it.
Those with reasonable knowledge believe in either massive bleeding by the swift demise of the USD as the reserve currency or death by a thousand cuts as an oversupply of M1 dilutes the money supply. In the end the result is pretty much the same.
Hope you like seeing your kids, grandkids, cousins and others because if your doing OK (relative to the relatives) they are moving in with you or you with them (if your lucky). I’ll bet the days of leftovers going in the garbage are history (leftovers will probably be history) and the obesity problem that Dr Oz talks about just found a solution. The good news is you always wanted a million dollar home and your going to get it along with a $30 loaf of bread. The bad news is that while prices quadruple your wages did not quite double.
Wait for a replay of the 1970s “blame game” with labor in this corner blaming business in that corner for the rise in prices with the MSM cheering both sides on and Uncle Sam and his partners staying moot throughout the debate. The “masses of asses” led by the “worshippers of the sphere” will have conversations about it that are nothing more then repeat sound bites from the “News” they seen waiting for the sports announcer.
All of this would be funny if it wasn’t so damn important.
Very astute.
Well written post.
So much can be learned from this website – The Obama File, An Historical Archive it is overwhelming!
See: http://theobamafile.com
I pulled out a few related examples to this topic with links provided below.
Change the value of our dollar? Is this quote from BO taken out of contexts and or is it planned?
“My friends, we live in the greatest nation in the history of the world. I hope you’ll join with me as we try to change it.”
The Federal Reserve’s Inspector General, Elizabeth Coleman, responds that the Office of the Inspector General does not know and is not tracking where this money is or where it went.
Is Anyone Minding the Store at the Federal Reserve? (05:24)
See: http://www.theobamafile.com/_BogusPOTUS/20090701.htm
With all due respect, we need a laugh.
Unbelievable Obama Gaffes, Mistakes, Lies, and Confusion (08:42)
http://theobamafile.com/ObamaGaffes.htm
BO unveiled much of his economic strategy while campaigning in 2008. He wants to employ the “Cloward-Piven Strategy” to hasten the fall of capitalism by overloading the government bureaucracy with a flood of impossible demands, thus pushing society into crisis and economic collapse. Check Economy from link below.
See: http://www.theobamafile.com/index_next_governing.html
There you go – enough to view and read for days. Why do you think I call him BO?
Y’all Beware!
Today’s Yobama:
Q: If Pelosi, Reid, Holder and Obama were on a boat in the middle of the ocean and it started to sink, who would be saved? ….
A: America!
Coburn Details $7 Billion in Waste from 100 Dumb Projects
See: http://www.redstate.com/dhorowitz3/2011/12/21/coburn-details-7-billion-in-waste-from-100-dumb-projects/
Or read below:
Posted by Daniel Horowitz (Diary)
Wednesday, December 21st at 8:03AM EST
At some point we will need to go beyond merely cutting waste, fraud, and abuse. We will eventually have to wind down the welfare state and close government departments and agencies. However, there is no reason we shouldn’t demand an immediate bipartisan effort to eliminate programs that are just plain dumb, even according to Democrat socialist ideology.
Nobody has been more assiduous and instrumental in identifying silly government projects than Senator Tom Coburn. Yesterday, Senator Coburn released his annual “Wastebook” profiling 100 “unnecessary, duplicative, or just plain stupid projects spread throughout the federal government.” The total cost of these programs is $6.9 billion. Cutting these programs would only account for roughly 40 hours of our debt, but why spend a penny on this stuff?
Here are some of the greatest hits:
• $120 million in retirement and disability benefits to federal employees who have died
• $30 million to help Pakistani Mango farmers
• $550,000 for a documentary about how rock music contributed to the collapse of the Soviet Union
• $10 million for a remake of “Sesame Street” for Pakistan
• $764,825 to examine how college students use mobile devices for social networking.
• $113,227 for a video game preservation center in New York
• $765,828 to subsidize a “pancakes for yuppies” program in Washington, D.C.
• $100,000 for a celebrity chef show in Indonesia
• $175,587 for a study on the link between cocaine and the mating habits of quail
• $606,000 for a study about online dating
• $17.80 Million in Foreign Aid to… China – (Department of State & U.S. Agency for International Development)
• The Super-Bridge to Nowhere – (Alaska) $15.3 Million
Yes, this is mere pocket change; we will not balance the budget by eliminating these preposterous projects. Nevertheless, they reveal just how apathetic our lawmakers are in handling public funds. They are also emblematic of the ridiculous budget process that has been in place in recent years. If we are going to pass 1200-page bills that fund the entire government with such short notice, we will invariably continue to fund these projects.
Coburn’s report gives us another 100 reasons why we should never pass omnibus bills.
So much to post about waste, so little time, that’s why Y’all Beware!
May not balance the budget, but Damnit, it would be a good starting point!!!!!!
This is Appropriate – Pay Attention!
Link didn’t post, Hmmm. oh well… here it is!
http://youtu.be/tbfOKK1M6-Y
You know? I hate to be the bearer of bad news here, but I’ve seen sheeple hoarding cash and gold– WHY?! Face it.. gold is based on the DOLLAR! And the dollar isn’t based on gold. Watching the markets, you’ll see that also. Back in 2001, I predicted the market crash to within 300 points, earning my nick name at work of “Little Radical Dude”. Hence, LRD. Why try to “survive” this eventuality with a stockpile of a failing currency or currencies? The ONLY currencies are as follows– WATER, food, and most importantly…. knowledge. Knowledge will provide the necessities of HOW to obtain the most important items for survival. A person can survive for 3 weeks or so without food, depending on how much “fat of the land” they have, but only 3 or 4 days without water. Which resource do you need to stock up on? A clean drinking supply is essential after SHTF. At a more appropriate time, I will elaborate on my plans for such a supply.
LDR:
Because gold transcends all currencies, kind of like oil. Oil is traded in US Dollars, but if the dollar ceases to exist, oil doesn’t become worthless it is still worth something in a different currency.
Knowledge is incredibly valuable, so is everything else that you listed. I think that value is put on different things for different people depending on their situation. I live out on the plains so an evacuation plan isn’t a priority but to others it is primary to their plan.
Mike.. I think you misunderstood me. I am asserting that a person can’t drink gold when almost all water has been polluted lending it undrinkable. I have serviced domestic and commercial wells where there has been everything from hydrogen sulfides and dead animals polluting them. Most people don’t realize the degree of well pollution… it’s amazing to me that someone would willingly drink water from certain wells, thinking that they are safe to do so. Yes, you can remove harmful bacteria from a well, but not some pollutants I’ve seen. Granted, even filtration alone can’t remove heavy metals and that’s just life. Water can be rendered potable by a ceramic filter and boiling but not necessarily safe. Gold and paper is useless when you are sick or dead.
None of us here knew that but thanks!
Makes me thirsty just thinking about it
I’m trying not to think about it.
Water is for bathing.
Beer good… water… bad
Easy for you to say. A second helping of cake please!
I’ll have pie. Oil or cream?
Make it a red velvet, german chocolate, pineapple cream, lemon meringue, double dipped Iowa state fair fried pie. And pass me a couple napkins, this thing is leaking all over my Toby Keith t-shirt! A small stain usually wouldn’t bother me, but I’m officiating at a wedding later, and I want to look my best…
The cake is a lie!
U.R.P – check the story; something all of us already know..
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2079283/Tweeting-word-drill-mean-Twitter-account-read-government-spies.html
I found that one earlier today SNS……..
I guess I can’t tell the story about loaning my DRILL to my neighbor, AN ILLEGAL IMMIGRANT, the one whose computer has a VIRUS! I guess it’ll have to wait for another day…..
Did you offer him a TROJAN condom to prevent that VIRUS from spreading?
The “collapse” means different things to different people. But when it finally arrives, it will exceed your expectations.
Every prepper should have someone “red team” their plans. Use someone you trust with your life. “Red Team” means looking for weaknesses, etc.
Old Fuzzy – My wife is always pointing out my weaknesses. Does this count?
Sort of.
A wise old sage awakes from a 200 year coma. He wanders down off the mountain and goes into town. Seeing lots of machinery and activities he doesn’t understand, he asks a passerby:
‘What’s that box over there where the people are lined up?’
“That’s an ATM. It dispenses money.”
‘Your money must be very heavy if you need to store it in the box and not carry it with you.’
“Actually, our money is just green slips of paper.”
‘And what are those things over there?’
“Those are vending machines. They dispense food and beverages. And that big square building is a grocery store. It also sells food”
‘Doesn’t anyone raise their own food anymore? Does it all come from the machines?’
“Most of it comes from the stores. Hardly anyone knows how to raise their own food nowadays.”
‘And this?’
“It’s a gas pump. The hose dispenses fuel into these things on wheels. We call them cars.”
‘What kind of fuel?’
“Gasoline. It’s made from oil. Most of our oil we get from our enemies in countries half way around the world.”
‘What is the purpose of the cars?’
“To take us to work and shopping.”
‘This green paper you mentioned…does it represent the gold you have in the bank?’
“No, practically no one owns gold anymore. All we need is the green paper.”
‘How do you determine the value of the green paper?’
“A small group of rich bankers called the FED sets the value.”
‘Are these the most honest and wise men among you? They must be to have such enormous power.’
“Well, actually, they’re almost all liars and thieves. We know very little about them, but occasionally they get caught running a scam or stealing and then we see them in the news for a while.”
‘How are they punished when caught stealing?’
“We usually assess a large fine against them.”
‘And they pay the fine with the money whose value they themselves determine?’
“Uh…yeah.”
‘Let me see if I understand this correctly. You use the cars to go to work. You work to get money, the value of which is determined by men you know to be dishonest. Put it in the machine, them come back and take it out a little at a time. Then you use the money to get more food to sustain yourself because you lack the knowledge to raise your own. And you pay money to your enemies to get more gas to power the cars to get back to work, for more money…?’
“That’s right.”
‘Only one more question. Where are the sane people?’
answer = @ shtfplan DOT com
Just one more nail in the U.S. Coffin.
YEEEAa, were still here!
DPS:
It kept nagging at me why I thought you were retired. Then for some reason I remembered you referring to yourself as retired. You were talking about taking better care of yourself when you were younger I think. It bothered me most of the evening last night. But no you don’t sound old to me, at all. I wish I could remember where I read that post, but unfortunately I don’t. Again my apology.
Mike,
Its cool brother, I did refer to myself as a retired motocross rider, but that was only a few yrs back. And taken better care of my body refers to the damn bike throw my off many times.. LOL
DPS
Question: has anyone ever tried using the Food Saver ( or similiar ) to vacuum pack food using the mylar bags ?
Most mylar bags are too big but you can use the food saver plastic tube for canisters to vacuum after using an iron to seal the most of the large bag with thin dish rag under (less than smoking hot!) iron. I’ve done it with a vacuum hose and new small tool attachment also.
Thanks.. by too big, do you mean that the bags themselves were too big to fit into the machine ?
Yes, and I’ve found that most mylar bags don’t vacuum well but they all re-seal well. I put a few pellets of dry ice to push the O2 out and seal it (after) it has disappeared. CO2 will kill any micro egg critters also.
Thanks Anon.. I’ve got a couple of cases coming, so I was concerned about how they would perform with the vacuum process; but also sealing with the small “bead” which is created by those machines.. maybe I’ll keep the iron handy, just in case..
Sam,
Yes I have tried it, doesn’t work with the mylar bags. Now you can use the food saver back to vacum pack first and then put them in mylar bags, but for some reason mylar bags will not vacum out. Got me brother i tried it several times.
DPS
crap.. it was planning to put my already vac packed stuff into the more hardy and light blocking mylar bags.. using the mylar as the outer defense. I really wanted a double vacuum.. the normal vac pak bags do fail once in a while, after a few months pass..
Well, I bought them, so I guess I’ll try and let everyone know if I find anything different.. note to self.. ask first, buy second. DOH.
Sam not sam:
We usually pack the normal vac bags inside a larger mylar bag, add some oxygen absorbers, and seal with an iron. The mylar will draw down from the O2 absorbers…..these bags are then put into our cheap food grade buckets from Wallie World, courtesy of the bakery dept. This process is a bit redundant, but better than finding bad food when needed.
Thanks Degonia – that is precisely what I will now do.
DPS – yup.. you were correct. Not only will they not vacuum; the sealing bar on the Food Saver apparently is not even hot enough to fuse the bags..
Ok…..I have a question for you all. I just checked the prices of precious metals : http://www.monex.com/liveprices .
You notice the prices of EVERYTHING is dropping ? I bought some 1oz of .999 silver just a few weeks ago at about $34.00 an ounce. Now it’s down to $27.00. And if you look at the live page….the prices of everything is down…..makes me wonder what is going on ?? Any thoughts anyone ?
Okie too…One of a few reasons for lower PM’s prices; The Euro currency as well as the Swiss franc have been steadly moving down in value. The Euro is at levels last seen in Jan 2011. Because the ‘US dollar’ is perceived to be relatively more healthy, the E.U. buys dollars raising its value. This in turn lowers PM prices denominated in dollars.
Writers at this site view PM’s a few different ways; investment, insurance, and barter item. Not speaking for any one other than myself, it is insurance first, perservation of capital, then everything else second. So yes, it may seem to you personaly you should have waited. No one here can definitively announce the ‘bottom’ is in.
If this was your first purchase of many PM purchases; by ‘dollar cost averaging’ you could lower the overall average price per oz. of your PM stack.
This again is just one man’s opinion (MM)
Kevin: No, I am not a CPA. Direct your CPA questions to Mal if he is lurking out there. Mal is a CPA.
Yes, people with professional licenses must pursue continuing education classes to maintain their licenses. I have more than 1000 hours in continuing professional education classes.
One need not be ex-military to have ‘balls” but I have never met anyone who was ex-military who didn’t have them; some more than others of course.
As individuals and as a nation, WE have many options for self determination yet, if WE will organize, communicate, volunteer, donate, and vote. Americans must again get involved in the political process.
And why not? Tunisians, Algerians, Egyptians, Syrians, and Lybians have risen up and overthrown their despots. Even Russians are massing in Moscow by the hundreds of thousands.
It is MUCH easier for US to do the same; and WE are the craddle of personal liberty and self determination in the modern era.
90 million gun owners have the power to change the direction of this nation without firing a shot. I have no sympathy for anyone voicing defeat, surrender, or capitulation.
Neither should you. Grow some balls. Pass it on.
I have been reading this site for about a year now and never have commented. I enjoy reading and learning all of your suggestions and the planned thoughts you have prepared for survival in bad times. I to have prepared and I feel there will be know good ending to what’s ahead. Thanks to all of you for good in sight and keep close to like minded people.
God Bless
Linestaff… Welcome to this site. I believe it was rated the number one ‘survival’ site. If you are a steady reader here I know you will have picked up some good info..along with alot of personal opinion. Your comments will be welcome. Let’s hear from you (MM)
Linestaff,
Well welcome to the site, just jump in anytime you feel like it. This site is more like a family very dysfunctional but a family. LOL
DPS
LineStaff,
Oh you and btw don’t call silver precious metal around DK, And don’t bring up TARP either…JK DK LOL.
DPS
DPS
hahaha – good advice – if around DK – don’t mention silver being called a pm and TARP. Oh, and another one is don’t dispute the “fact” that there are 90 million gun owners in the USofA. Just saying…
Bring it on. I’m ready. Been a prepper for years.
RID: I am aware of the data and examples that you cite. You hit the nail on the head when you said that Chinese workers get paid $.54 an hour compared to a US worker.
I suspect (but don’t know)that their health and benefits are nothing to brag about either. They spend half of their wages on food. Is that not “exploitation”?
GM is an anomaly and not a good example.
The average wage earning worker in America makes less than $27k per year, as 51% of all Americans make that amount. That amount represents $10-12 per hour.
OUR competitiveness is not for lack of OUR productivity per person, as America workers are among the most productive if not the most productive worker in the world.
So “competitiveness” as a function of productivity is not an issue. Cost is an issue as you state, and that cost disparity is artificially set. The bigger issue is Chinese Protectionism.
The Chinese place a 25% tariff on every US manufactured product to protect domestic manufacturers; then manipulate and suppress their own currency by another 20-25% by buying a billion dollars in US currency every day to protect their exporters. WE are getting screwed twice.
In the real example I used for a catapillar tractor versus a Chinese brand both sold on the east coast of the USA, the US brand could compete on price if these protectionist policies which WE allow them to get away with were dissolved. (And that’s with the low cost of Chinese labor).
On the other end of the scale T-shirts made in Alabama would also be cost competitive with Chinese T shirts if these protectionist policies were not allowed.
These examples represent American jobs.
It wouldn’t take much, just a fair valuation of the Chinese currency to make the US cost competitive again: with China where most of OUR wealth has flowed over the past ten years into the pockets of the GB’s.
Cost competitiveness (fairness) can be re-established by the US withdrawal from GATT, WTO, and NAFTA, OR by eliminating unfair trade practices, OR by the decline in value of the dollar.
The decline in value of the dollar is not my choice, its the choice of the GB’s as the GB’s profit from their MANAGED TRADE SYSTEM. There is nothing FREE about FREE TRADE, and it is not a FREEDOM.
It is managed trade. Managed by the Gangster Banksters, under GATT, NAFTA, and the WTO, FOR the Gangster Banksters.
The GB’s are not going to cut into their profits but they will gladly cut into the quality of life of all Americans by debasing the dollar.
The dollar must be decline in value to some extent if Americans are to recoup any manufacturing jobs. That is reality. That is the process now. That is the PLAN. It is difficult to do when everyone in the EU wants to race you to the bottom.
Average wage earning Americans will be given a choice: some jobs and a lower quality of life or many, or NO JOBS and no income unless you can generate your own.
With respect to your comparison with the rest of the world you are right. I was just comparing the relationship of the US to China and Mexico.
The GB’s have already identified Turkey (payola for assistance against Assad), Egypt, Indonesia, and Nigeria for further economic development.
The excess global development currently in China will be moved to these countries when and as they come “on board” with the GB plan for world domination. The GB’s have said so.
So no, the US worker will not be able to compete with these global workers making pennies an hour as excess global production is moved from China to these other nations with large populations.
The intent is to make these people consumers just like US and just like 300 million Chinese.
In the process, many Americans will lose their homes, jobs, and income. OUR economy has been stolen, transferred off shore using American depositor funds, for the benefit of the GB’s who designed and profit from this system using OUR money.
I have no doubt that most of the other 7 billion people in the world would gladly change places with the poorest among US. That doesn’t mean that WE need to let them infiltrate OUR borders, or subsidize them to do so.
Americans have a right to protect their markets and the source of their economic prosperity from those that want to exploit US, destroy US, and make US economic serfs under their New World Order.
KILL THE FED!
DK,
I hate to correct your math bud but $12.00 and hr is $24960.00 per yr your math is off %7.66 and at $10.00 per hr $20800.00 off %22.97.
DPS
Was in sells for 30 yrs, I know my percentages.lol
DPS: I am going to ignore you and hope you go away! 🙂
DPS – good catch. And, I’ll not ignore you!
Durango, very good and valid points. I gave you a “thumbs-up” – not sure why anyone would give you a “thumbs-down.” Must be a commie bastard (can I say that on this site?).
Thanks for taking the time to write it all down. I believe we agree more than we disagree. Have a great evening, for what’s left of it.
Richard in Denver says:
December 28, 2011 at 5:18 pm
DK, my take on the “free trade” system is that it benefits everyone.
RID: There is nothing “Free” about FREE TRADE. It has been a tremendous cost and financial burden for the American taxpayer and family; which is why 45 million Americans are on food stamps and 16% are unemployed.
FREE TRADE is MANAGED TRADE.
It is managed by the gangster banksters for the gangster banksters under GATT, NAFTA, and the WTO.
It is artificial and arbitrary. Anyone else who profits from that system contributes to their bottom line.
It doesn’t benefit everyone.
It benefits the UR, PTB, and GB’s. It has gutted the American middle class, stolen the American economy, and savaged the US Constitution and American liberties.
It is evil and corrupt because it is managed by evil and corrupt people who have abused “free enterprise” and transformed it into crony capitalism.
———————
“Free trade is not a living creature that selects who to benefit and who to screw. The screwing comes from greedy and evil people who abuse the “free trade” system.”
These evil, greedy, and created a demonic system that serves them. They are the ones screwing people: US.
The playing field is tilted allowing the vast amount of money, much of it taxpayer generated, to flow to them. That is how the richest 6,000 families in America have enriched themselves by $100 million each over the past 30 years (while conspicuously consuming)and the wealth of the average American family has actually declined in value in real terms over that time period.
Wealth and power is concentrating into fewer and fewer hands.
That is the truth about your FREE TRADE SYSTEM.
Then the PTB sell that system to US as if it were a FREEDOM, when it is clearly managed trade, and managed by treaty.
Thank you.
Durango, it is not my “free trade” system – I merely used the term you used in several of your comments. And, I don’t want to get into a disagreement about semantics. You call it whatever and I’ll call it whatever. OK?
And, as I said before, free trade or capitalism or the free enterprise system – it doesn’t matter because “it” does nothing bad or good to people. People screw people. Doesn’t matter if its a free enterprise system or a hybrid or straight communism, PEOPLE SCREW PEOPLE – it doesn’t get any clearer than that and has nothing to do with “systems” but has everything to do with people.
And, as far as your “managed trade” and “managed treaty” – that doesn’t matter – people and “managed systems” go hand-in-hand – get used to that and adapt. What one should do is use their intelligence and resources and figure out how to work around these “managed” systems.
RID: Don’t take it personal. It was not intended to be a personal attack, Richard. Please don’t take it personally.
Its not about splitting hairs with you on semantics and showing you how smart I am. I could care less what people’s personal opinion of me might be.
I am quite comfortable in my own skin so I am not seeking any measure of popularity. If I was I would use my real name.
I am not ego driven. I am idea driven. Nor do I need to maneuver around these things for myself. I got mine. I am one of the lucky ones.
I don’t want to see people like BJ and his kids get screwed generation after generation because the GB’s and UR do not have enough $50k leather hand bags.
I am not trying to impress anyone, but I am trying to impress upon them the truth about FREE TRADE.
I admit, I am a zealot, because most of the issues that Americans squabble about are symptoms of FREE TRADE.
There is a BIG difference between Free Enterprise and Free Trade. A difference that you and all other Americans need to understand but don’t.
I admit that at one time I was quite confused about it all. I didn’t see the invisible hand moving behind the curtain and couldn’t put the pieces together.
I prayed about it all to gain some understanding, to make sense of it all, and the light was like a bolt from the blue as I saw how all of these pieces of the jigsaw puzzle fall into place.
Free Enterprise is part and parcel of the American experience and the basis for each of OUR individual dreams for OURSELVES and OUR families. It is the system that allowed Americans to flourish because it liberated their potential.
FREE TRADE is an economic system that is designed to make US economic serfs. It has tilted the table in favor of the Uber Rich when they already have all the advantages.
The difference between Free Enterprise and FREE TRADE is the difference between Capitalism which We use to have, and Crony Capitalism which WE have now.
There is no such thing as Free Trade.
FREE TRADE is a euphemism used by Globalists to sell the American people a demonic system as a FREEDOM, because Americans love freedom. But Free Trade is oriented to benefit the UR and PTB at the expense of the American people, their economy, and their personal liberties.
Most Americans do not grasp that fact because the propaganda by the LSM and PTB have been very successful; but the numbers are in and the numbers tell the story.
Since 2000, 42,400 factories, many tens of millions of jobs, and trillions of dollars of GDP have been shipped offshore. OUR economy was stolen.
Now, 45 million Americans receive food stamps, 16% of Americans are out of work, and millions more have had their American dream put on hold as they have been impacted by the greed of the GB’s. And its going to get worse.
Globalists in government would have you believe that FREE TRADE is akin to yard sale economics. It is not. It is the rape of the American economy by treaty, managed by the GB’s on behalf of themselves, the PTB, and the UR 6,000 families that control most of the wealth of America.
It is the economic cornerstone of a grand plan designed to strip US of OUR liberties, turn America into a police state, dissolve the US Constitution, and merge the US into the North American Union with Mexico.
The goal is nothing less than the dissolution of America as WE know it.
Illegal immigration is a strategy that is part of that grand plan.
If you believe in the America that OUR Founding Fathers created then it does matter. It makes all the difference in the world. That is the America I want to leave my children and my children’s children.
How about you?
Thank you. UR Good.
Wow DK! Thank you for posting this.
NSBF: If you like the message make it yours. Take it with you. Post it everywhere. The American people need to understand that all of this is part of a grand plan to enslave them.
The US Constitution and 90 million gun owners in America are the only things that stand between US, OUR families, OUR personal liberties, and One World Government.
The stakes are huge.
Durango,
You said, “If you believe in the America that OUR Founding Fathers created then it does matter. It makes all the difference in the world. That is the America I want to leave my children and my children’s children. How about you?”
Here’s my answer. The America you’re referring to is long gone. I’m not stating this as a defeatist but as a realist who sees and understands the “big picture” of what’s “really” going on! The America of today is nothing like the America created by our founding fathers. That America died when: (1) America took God out of public schools, out of courtrooms, and out of government; (2) America decided murdering unborn babies was a pro-choice event; (3) America decided pornographic materials is a right under the first Amendment of our Constitution; and, (4) America decided homosexual practices was a “lifestyle choice” Everything we see happening today (like the corruption of our government, businesses, even many churches) are merely symptoms of our moral decay caused by the four events that I just mentioned.
We can argue about current events, about the corruption in our government, businesses, and public schools, about our bad economy, about the “falling away” of our society, etc., etc., etc. and we can give advice on how to fix things. But, the reality is that nothing will get fixed until our nation once more says “under God we stand”! It’s as simple as that.
Durango, I hope you had a great Christmas and will have a safe and happy new year (it’s 2:09 am mountain time, 12/31/11)!
Durango, I’m not sure about your comments as they seem to attack, even when you provide something useful. For example, I use the work “free trade” and you come back to tell me that it isn’t “free” in a long-winded dissertation – what the hell? I never said nor implied that it was “free” – I used that term because that is what it’s called. Besides, you used it first (and I certainly didn’t challenge you on it).
Are you trying to convince us that you are well read, well informed, and highly intelligent? Perhaps you need to get out of your mine and mingle with some people so that you can be come more “socialized”!!!
Your a quick student. I have been here almost the whole year and it took me a little bit longer to get that figured out
BJ: You don’t have even the foggiest clue … really you don’t. I post for your edification. I got mine.
This work I do is for you and yours. 🙂
BJ,
Isn’t it funny how some people feel it is their job and in our best interest to inform us, to instruct us, to protect us, to keep us safe. Wow, we are so lucky to have such people who want to take care of us.
If only they would give us money rather than advice!
DPS
Toss is a very poor benefits package and the employer 7% contribution to SS and that $12 / hr is at 30k.
No matter how you add it up you get a good dozen Chinese that will die in their unsafe job for the cost of one low paid American.
K2: My standard of living will increase because my gold production will increase. It really doesn’t matter whether or not the price of gold is relative at $1,000 per oz or $3,000 per oz.
More production equals more wealth, whatever relative value is placed upon it by the market for other goods and services.
While some may believe that gold will decline in value, and it may if the EU works through its difficulties, gold and oil will be still be the bell weathers for value.
All of the producing nations of the world are buying their own gold production, except US.
Khazakistan is building a new $30 million (USD) gold refinery to process its increased production which they estimate at 25 tons a year.
Why do you think every nation in the world that can, is buying gold or increasing their production of it? (except US)
On a global scale, it represents true material wealth.
DK
I missed something. You have a gold mine?
Given a collapse and a broken supply chain a loaf or bread or gallon of gas may cost an ounce of gold.
I wish you luck. I wish all of us luck.
Thanks. WE will all need it K2. I don’t see how war with Iran can be avoided next year. Its coming. And I believe it is coming sooner rather than later; one way or another.
That changes everything.
Funny and hot turns my head every time. Save the Rich by Garfunkel and Oates on Yew Lube.
Thanks for a warm welcome. You guys are a trip!
Good article, especially the charts for dollar vs. Roman currency devaluation.
“When that happens, expect the unexpected.”
The logic of this, however, is fascinating. If we expect the unexpected, it is no longer unexpected. Is it? 😉
Bill/oldFuzzy, Bill, you beat me to it, I ROTFLMAO! Been married to my Red Team for over two decades. Worse, she wants to move to the city, a more cosmopolitan life, doncha know. Shop for dinner or takeout on the way home, depending on her whim/what is fresh. Re: Prepping, she won’t support my efforts, if something happens, she says we’ll be just like everyone else. I’ve tried to explain I don’t want to be in the same lifeboat as everyone else. Total opposites, grown worse with time and the current crisis I see looming and cannot help myself but try to prep. So for those of you with a like minded SO, count your blessings. You cannot imagine the unending relentless disapproving mien that is the elephant sitting on your chest as you try to prep without support. Famous quote: “I’m sick of your Rambo shit”. As tempting as it sounds, getting the Porsche, the beach condo, and the call girl, while reserving one bullet, it’s just not me. MOLON LABE!
obama = ((+))= ‘0P , back and too the left…
any questions ???
time too take out the trash…