In case you haven’t heard, the Oregon state legislature has recently approved a new minimum wage, and Governor Kate Brown has already agreed to sign it. This minimum wage law will be very different from the wage laws of most states, in that it will vary on a region by region basis. There will be gradual increases in each city and rural county until the year 2022. At that point, the city of Portland will have a minimum wage of $14.75, smaller cities will be at $13.50, and rural areas will be at $12.50.
But for all their good intentions, the leftists that pushed this legislation through have no idea what they’re in for. It will be rife with unintended consequences. Take for instance, what happened in Seattle shortly after their city council approved a $15 minimum wage. Before the wage increase even went into effect, restaurants all over the city crunched the numbers for what it would mean to their bottom line, and shuttered their doors. And for those who are still employed, the minimum wage increase hasn’t really helped them at all. Here’s what two cleaning ladies told the Seattle Times last year:
The cleaning woman responded, “It sounds good, but it’s not good,”
“Why?” I asked.
“I lost my 401k, health insurance, paid holiday, and vacation,” she responded. “No more free food,” she added.
The hotel used to feed her. Now, she has to bring her own food. Also, no overtime, she said. She used to work extra hours and received overtime pay.
“What else?” I asked.
“I have to pay for parking,” she said.
I then asked the part-time waitress, who was part of the catering staff.
“Yes, I’ve got $15 an hour, but all my tips are now much less,” she said. Before the new wage law was implemented, her hourly wage was $7. But her tips added to more than $15 an hour. Yes, she used to receive free food and parking. Now, she has to bring her own food and pay for parking.
It’s simple economics really, which apparently the purveyors of the minimum wage have no knowledge of. They artificially raised the price of services across the board, and look what happened? The businesses that couldn’t afford it either shut down or laid off workers, and the businesses that could afford it simply shifted some money around by eliminating benefits and putting those dollars toward wages.
Big surprise right? We’ll probably see the same thing happen in Oregon before these wage increases are enforced. Businesses owners in that state are saying and thinking the same thing the restaurateurs were saying in Seattle last year.
What the supporters of a higher minimum wage just don’t get, is that it hurts poor unskilled workers the most. They want to believe that it will help these people attain a livable wage, but it won’t. In fact, when states or cities try to raise the minimum wage, it often forces their low skilled workers to move to different states for better work opportunities. The minimum wage is a job killer that takes work away from people who need it the most. And in any case, those who do still have a job now have to pay more for goods and services in certain industries, now that there is no cheap labor.
It also sets the bar too high for workers that lack experience. Think about it. Whenever a business hires a new employee, they’re taking on a big risk. It costs money to train new people, and they have no idea if these people will work out. The less experienced they are, the more risk it entails, and thus they pay these workers less money to hedge those risks. With any minimum wage, it’s difficult, and sometimes impossible, for the newest members of the job market to attain their first work experience. Is it any wonder why all over the developed world, the youngest demographics have the highest unemployment rates? Surely this is a contributing factor.
To those that support a higher minimum wage, or any minimum wage for that matter, this isn’t rocket science. At the end of the day, some jobs simply aren’t worth that much money, no matter how much you pout about how unfair the world is. And when you set a minimum wage, what you’re really doing it outlawing all jobs that are worth less than that arbitrary amount.
It sounds pretty dumb when you put it that way, doesn’t it?
Contributed by Joshua Krause of The Daily Sheeple.
Joshua Krause is a reporter, writer and researcher at The Daily Sheeple. He was born and raised in the Bay Area and is a freelance writer and author. You can follow Joshua’s reports at Facebook. Joshua’s website is Strange Danger .
Related:
What Prices Look Like Before and After A Mandatory Minimum Wage Increase
Gov Report: Up To ONE MILLION Jobs Will Be Lost Due to Minimum Wage Hike
Remember when Socialism was a very bad word? Minimum wage is nothing more than more government socialism. Now Hillary and Bernie are arguing who will be more of a socialist.
What in the hell happened to this country?
These assholes forget that the NAZIs were socialists.
Socialism is suicide.
Google
The Transfer Agreement
by author Edwin Black,
1933: Zionists sign a deal with Hitler
a lot of interesting history many folks dont know.
Thought y’all might enjoy this:
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“Minimum wage is nothing more than more government socialism. ”
John this is total bullshit.
If wages were adjusted for real inflation since the 70’s factory and warehouse wages would be more like $18 /hr. Fast food wages more like $11-12 /hr. I didn’t hear any industrialists in those days complaining about paying their employees a fair wage, when $6.50/hr was the going rate for labor.
That was 45 years ago. Get real.
Joshua, minimum wage is NOT the cause of American economic problems. In fact, minimum wages have NOT kept up with real inflation for two reasons: first, 70k factories and tens of millions of American jobs have been offshored to China since 2000.
This fact alone would create a massive oversupply of labor and the suppression of wages (IE The supply and demand for available jobs). Second, the concurrent MASSIVE ILLEGAL INVASION has added an additional 30 million workers creating additional massive pressure DOWNWARD, also suppressing wages, and COMPOUNDING the problem.
A recent study published at Zero Hedge shows that REAL wage growth has not occurred since the 70’s while the cost of everything essential to people like food, clothing and shelter have risen dramatically. This condition reflects a lot fewer jobs and many more workers in the economy.
In fact, the lack of wage growth in real terms is one of the PRIMARY reasons for the collapse in our consumer economy. Joshua, you have shit for brains and OBVIOUSLY NO formal financial or economic education or you would understand the fundamental reasons for a deflationary recession led by a collapse of consumer spending.
If higher minimum wages were such a bad idea, why did Henry Ford dramatically increase the wages of his factory workers to a point where they could afford to buy one of his cars and thus initiate and stimulate the greatest industrial revolution in history since the cotton gin ???
“At the end of the day, some jobs simply aren’t worth that much money.”
Businesses that cannot raise the price of their product or service while paying their employees a living wage DO NOT DESERVE to be in business. The PRINCIPLE OF SUBSTITUTION ALWAYS APPLIES !!! Their workers do not need to subsidize their businesses.
Repatriating American production facilities while deporting foreign nationals would go a long way to restoring the historical balance between workers and entrepreneurs.
That balance was overturned by the NWO GLOBALISTS who want to enslave American workers and enrich themselves at our expense. Joshua, you are parroting their PROPAGANDA !!!
Mac, where do you get these economic morons ???
durangokidd, your argument is valid until you find out what inflation really is. Please research it. Inflation basically is creating more money than there is supply. It is a hidden tax on the poor and middle class. When money is not tied to a physical asset (gold or silver)we are being screwed. All governments have done this in history and every time the money supply is “doctored” the people ultimately loose.
BMG: Don’t have time to respond to your internet meme about “printing money”. I have addressed that here many times before. The FED has not been printing money. The FED has been REPLACING the losses of the BANKS. there’s a difference which you do not understand.
I will explain inflation to you later tonight. 🙂
You really don’t understand how money is created or what QE is all about. This video might help you learn about what’s really going on with money creation and debt: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iFDe5kUUyT0&feature=youtu.be
Mallus: I don’t need to watch your video. I know all about money creation and debt; with a formal education in economics and finance, a number of related professional licenses; including a securities license, and a career in the banking and finance industry.
You should know that I ran a specialized banking department for a major bank at the national level, reporting directly to the Executive VP and Chief Credit Officer.
I understand QE better than 95% of the American people.
I was also able to get TWO NY Banks to back me; EACH willing to give me the total funds for a $50 million leveraged buyout (LBO) when $50 million was real money.
QE was primarily DESIGNED by the FED to buy bad bank securities and non-performing loan portfolios, to support the balance sheets of the Member Banks of the Federal Reserve, and protect the liquidity ratios of these Member Banks to keep them in business.
Everything else was secondary. 🙁
“durangokidd, your argument is valid until you find out what inflation really is. Please research it. Inflation basically is creating more money than there is supply.”
LMFAO !!! 🙂 Obviously you don’t have a fucking clue what inflation is. Did you read what you wrote ???
“Inflation basically is creating more money than there is supply.”
Supply of WHAT ???
In a nutshell, inflation occurs when a population has too many dollars chasing too few goods and services in a particular marketplace; meaning that a prosperous people are willing to pay more (increased demand) for the available goods and services in the marketplace (lower production and/or shortages).
If the FED were printing dollars as you and other well meaning, but mis-informed people like you claim; then there would be massive inflation and panic levels of demand. Neither is apparent.
Actually, the converse is true. Consumption by the masses is plummeting; EVIDENCED by the HUGE number of retail stores that had been shuttered over the past few years.
THE FED IS DESTROYING DOLLARS AND SHRINKING THE MONEY SUPPLY IN THE ECONOMY AND TO THE MASSES IN PARTICULAR !!!
How much money you got, Willis ??? 🙂
Durango,
Thanks for pointing out the unspoken truth so intentionally disregarded in this article. This guy sounds like a stooge planted by the big corporation and financial firms. Yeah, let’s put the blame on the lowest people on the pole, and we can have a big laugh at all the idiots who jump on board with us sticking it to them while they never even suspect us for the real reasons why America has no economic base any longer. Hey guys, look over THERE for the problem, not over HERE where it REALLY lies! Sad to say by reading a lot of the responses here their work is just about completed.
Billy: I do what I can. 🙂
YOU ARE 100% CORRECT ….KEEP IT UP.
Unfortunately, I work part time in a restaurant in a nanny state that just increased the min wage. First thing I noticed is cleaning chemicals began to disappear. Then labor hours were being reduced putting big stress on the operation. Now food and operating supplies seem to be running out before delivery day. Pretty confident they are going to close some stores.
Sheeple have not figured out that the government’s objective is to be the “personnel department” for all businesses. This way government gets a “cut” of all the money that flows through a business’s personnel as a direct tax or indirect tax.
Minimum wage is a direct tax because it forces the employer to raise wages that increase taxes.
Obamacare is an indirect tax like SCOTUS said that government gets its cut. I am expecting Hillary to federalize dental and vision care in her term.
The objective of socialized government is to tax as high as possible without killing the golden goose. This is how they can provide the Free $hit Army (F$A) with all the “goodies” so government socialist politicians keep being reelected.
The problem with government mandating part of an employer’s overhead is they force the total end price of the good or service. If the employer is not completive from the sum total of direct and indirect taxes than the only alternative is to cut employees or go out of business.
In my case I close my business and retired again after Obamacare was passed. I saw no benefit to risking my money and working 60 hour weeks to fund the FSA. It was a simple decision. Your business plan works or it doesn’t. Mine did not…
Good comments.
I believe also that the government wants to cause massive inflation.
How do you make 20 trillion dollars in national debt meaningless? By causing inflation. If everybody made $30, $60 or $100 an hour the national debt to income is no longer unsustainable.
The government will inflate it’s way out of debt.
Hell, what difference does it make anymore. Whenever I walk by a house under construction, the only languages I hear spoken are Spanish and Polish. There are no longer company trucks with the name and phone number listed on the doors, everybody is a fly by nighter who works out of the trunk of his car. Tell me they’re all paying taxes and not working under the table. Every truck I see that isn’t UPS or FEDX is driven by Mexicans, yeah, of course their licenses and social security cards are all legal, right? Drive down a highway under construction, the only white guys I ever see are heavy equipment operators, the rest, I don’t have to tell you, do I? Nobody hires anyone that requires any amount of training, why should they? They can get all the cheap, disposable help they want anytime. All they need to do is check their ” documentation” when they hire them, phony social security cards and drivers licenses have been a booming business for decades. All employers will need to do is have fake paperwork to submit to the government that they’re paying these guys the minimum wage of whatever per hour when they pay cut rate wages in cash under the table. Everybody, including the government knows the game, the job market for blue collar workers who aren’t Mexican died a long time ago, so I don’t see this as the last straw to break the back of the camel, Hell, the camel died already.
Don’t forget the increasing robots doing more and more tasks and the increasing self-check out and banking and the increasing amount of automation of tasks previously done by hand(i know this one personnally because i get paid to automate).
The “living wage” supporters have just increased the speed of offshoring jobs and eliminating jobs thru technology. What idiots.
lena
The same was said about US Steelworkers with their high wages that greased the treads of the flight of US manufacturing. Their jobs were going regardless. As I stated below even $15 / hr is too damn much to pay when 25-50 cent labor is available without any civilized safety or environmental protections. If you paid $8 / hr or $15 those jobs are going to 25-50 cent labor as long as no protective tariff exists. As Joe Louis said, “You can run but you can’t hide”. In the end another quote comes to mind from that famous French Queen in about 1790 or so; “Let them eat cake”? The support for Trump and Sanders are the canary in the coal mine.
Rabbitone and Lena, I’ve seen this happen every time the minimum wage was increased. When the wage went up, the help wanted ads in the newspaper decreased to some degree. and, lo and behold, everything out there went up in price. When wages go up, prices go up; they have to. Just having minimum wage is bad enough but raising it has always been counterproductive. I’ve been at minimum wage in years past and know it really sucks. I’ve always had to buy cars for cash from private owners because I’ve never made enough money to qualify for credit. I think credit is for rich people but that’s just me. I have a company vehicle since 2004 only because the big boss wanted me to get away from what he called “cars on life support.” But at the same time he wasn’t paying me enough money to qualify for financing. I’ve tried to go that route in the past only to get turned away from dealers and I’ve walked away from more than a few of them. So when he offered me a company vehicle with gas, insurance, maintenance furnished by the company, I jumped on it. Considering my circumstances, it was a smart move on my part. It was the only way I could get something GOOD. The last vehicle I had; well, the shop had it more than I did.
Bravefart – so that’s why you hate credit! You’re a minimum wage earner and don’t qualify for credit cards/bank loans etc.,
And yet you’re always banging on about “filthy” credit! Why didn’t you just admit it that no one trusts you to repay your debts?
But no you have to pretend! “No way do I want a filthy loan!” Every time you reach for the keyboard you show just what a loser you are!
You’re such an easy target!
Anon, LOL. Do you really believe that? You really think something’s wrong with me for not using credit for anything? I don’t need credit to live. What about you? Can you live without credit? I’ll bet you’re in debt up to your forehead, aren’t you? So I’m a loser because I use either cash or a debit card to buy something and NOT a credit card? A credit card is nothing but a convenience and it has its own price tag. If you want to give up a nice chunk of change to pay a high-interest credit card bill every month, go right ahead. That shit’s not for me. I’m debt-free and have some peace of mind, so you see a problem with that. That’s OK; don’t bother explaining.
Bravefart, you’re a 58 year old, overweight, minimum wage earner who relies on a charity hand out car from his boss and a charity place at someone else’s bug out location. Hardly a contender for Mr Successful Life 2016 are you? You’re not even a successful failure. The American Dream must have been in a deep coma when you were pupped.
With your spending on supplies for your charity bug out location running so high and your wages so low, if I were your boss I’d check the stock room.
Finance seems to be a bit of a mystery to you doesn’t it? Yes, a credit card is a convenience and one I use sensibly. Anyone offering me a 56 day interest free loan is not my enemy! I pay the piper, in full, at the last possible moment to avoid charges. Use the system, not the other way around!
First is the adoption of Free Trade Agreements eviscerating US manufacturing along with the wages it payed that could support a family. Even the low paying textile industry, predominately non union but in any effect union or not paying $15 hr maximum fled to Asia with 25 – 50 cent / hr labor. Families unable to feed themselves swell the EBT card ranks roughly 400% as once hard working former tax payers have become welfare recipients. Throw in some Financial Sector deregulation with its subsequent now just unethical as opposed to the former illegal behavior and here comes a two trillion dollar bail out that we just can’t seem to get the data on exactly where the money went. Top it all off with balancing the books on the back of some poor SOBs that just wanted to earn living but can’t Thanks to globalist greed.
In the end WallMarts labor force is being subsidized with EBT cards complements of the US Taxpayer and with the blessing of the globalist corporate controllers.
Kevin2, in reference to EBT, there’s supposedly going to be a million people kicked off EBT between now and summer. I smell ‘big trouble’ ahead.
Braveheart1776
Empty stomachs were historically the cause of uprisings. The USSRs cutting the subsidies for food in Poland with the subsequent shortages was the catalyst for the strikes at the Gdansk shipyard. Those strikes were pretty much the spearpoint that eventually brought down the USSR as civil disorder cascaded through the Eastern Block.
Once again the root cause is Free Trade globalization with 3rd world economies. Interestingly their emulation of western debt economics as we’re seeing in China is bringing them down too. The world is a damn mess.
Kevin2, “the world is a damn mess.” Understatement. The world is dying, but that’s just me.
The only reason people act civil and obey the law is because they have a full stomach, and are not thirsty.. Take away one or the other, or both, and the law goes out the window…
Nemesis
Yes civility is a luxury of the fed and sheltered.
The EBT automatically kicks out certain classes of people when the unemployment rate drops below 5%.
The fake unemployment numbers are going to hurt real world people.
Wtf? Really? No minimum wage at all? Yeah let’s just let the unskilled folks starve and end up in shelters. We surely won’t have to shell out money in taxes to support them as the suck from the government teat. Giving people enough for food, shelter and a vehicle is not a bad idea and will probably end up costing a lot less than anything a minimum wage will. It’s also less people rioting in the streets when the government slashes SNAP, medicaid and so forth. Might want to think before you post.
Maybe you should think first. The labor market is made up of employers and laborers. Laborers determine how much they are paid by showing up. If there were no minimum wage and the working people, gave a damn, they would get paid what they are worth. In a free economy the worker that proves his worth will be paid by someone. When minimum wage is instituted, it takes money from the good employees who should make more and gives it to the merely ok or bad employees who deserve less.
You really want the government deciding your worth and not have it based on you work?
E Nacht. You seem tone educated in economics by the MSM. Why do the taxpayers have to be responsible for anyone but themselves? Socialism fails when they run out of other peoples money. The middle class is being drastically reduced by over taxation and health care mandates and fines. Soon there will be only the rulers and peasants.
E Nacht’s post is very interesting. The sentence that begins: “Giving people enough for food” could easily be reworded to this: ” Making it possible for people to EARN enough for food” etc. The kind ministrations of our benevolent Federal Gov’t are very anti-business (especially to small business) and they are a job killer!
“The middle class is being drastically reduced by over taxation and health care mandates and fines.”
The middle class met its demise with NAFTA and GATT (China Free Trade) which sent millions of livable wage jobs to the developing. The removal of Glass-Steagall added to it making investments very risky. The rest is by economic comparison a mere annoyance.
John Stiner, you said it. Also, lets not forget the millions of people killed by socialists like Pol Pot, Mao Tse Tung, Lenin, Stalin, and Hitler. Hillary and Bernie may offer more of the same when the Bill of Rights get in the way.
Think the Neo-Cons respect the Bill Of Rights? OBTW Hillary is a Neo-Con as her position regarding the Financial Sector that owns her and her foreign policy are a dovetail fit to the establishment.
If your a Middle Class American your own you own.
There is a far cry from the likes of Norway, Sweden and Finland and the USSR, Red China and Cambodia.
Excellent article, plus comments up to here. All of this is quite foreseeable to any thoughtful, reasonably balanced, person, that looks beyond their own nose. Are we rapidly reaching the point where more and more of us realize that “letting the system burn down” is likely the only way out of all this foolishness?
Roy, to answer your question, yes.
These idiots like the governor of Oregon and the legislature that wrote and passed the bill were just doing it for “the common good.”
I am so glad we moved out of Oregon a few years ago.
Some people pay employees off the books thousands do, have a binding agreement signed by both parties for wages to be paid. Say to hell with the law anyway you can because it is a communist agenda to began with. Sue the state for overreach. Have your CPA to take every deduction legally possible and if the IRS doesn’t complain you are ahead and if they do you haven’t broken any law’s. Don’t get just any CPA get a fox who is willing and knows the law, your average CPA should work for the IRS for all the good he does for you and if the truth be known he may work for them.
We should raise the minimum wages to $25.00 per hour.
I want to see who survives.
Close all the stores.
Totally agree. Shut them all right the fuck down and get this party started
Captain Crunch.
First they complain they are not getting paid enough. I can understand a more complicated job being paid more but entry level jobs.
Then they complain they have to travel farther to get what they want when the stores closes.
You want better food. Pay the higher price.
In the next go round. If there is one. They won’t be sitting on their asses playing video games on their Iphones.
They would be eating grubs and worms and like them too.
Tired of the B.S.
S.S.
Right On! let us do it. It would take about 2 weeks to shut it all down. Then watch the maggots squirm!
We could get out the Pop Corn and watch the Zombies and Leaches eat each other.
Has anyone heard from SixPack. I hope everything is OK!
Sgt.
SGT Dale.
When I was growing up. Whatever my mother cooked for diner, that is what we ate and I damn sure did not complain. Liver was a hard one to choke down.
Sling, same for me when I was a kid. If I complained about the meal, I was sent away from the table and did without til’ the next day. Certain veggies are tough to eat, I’ll grant you that.
Sarge, Slingshot, and CC, a million people are supposedly getting kicked off SNAP between now and summer. I’ll bet that’s when the party starts.
Braveheart1776
Rumble in the Jungle.
Sarge, I’ve also been wondering about Sixpack. I also hope she’s OK.
Six is fine, I messaged her a few days ago.
Good for a laugh as a bad joke, but in reality a meal at McDonalds would cost $50.00! We should have a two minimum wage scales, one for teenagers with no experience and a more generous one for adults.
Anon, I’ll take anything in my preps over that shit they dare to call ‘food’.
I can tell you two or three businesses that will survive.
The tattoo and body piercing businesses will thrive as long as there is money, or dope to change hands and the gold trinket business is still around.
And, wtf is all this shit with the ear lobe stretching? Men and women looking like some demonic beasts with tribal bling hanging from their heads. I guess it is all part of humanity being in love with themselves, cause it sure as hell serves no other purpose. A very sick, and strange worldly society that we live in. And just when you think it can’t get any worse….about half of the blind sheeple still want to see billery as potus. To hell in a hand basket, they go.
My America – Upside Down – why? and how? Look to the Preamble defining ‘We the People’ the sovereigns! means the principals of all governments. [Sept. 1787] then, fast forward 81 yrs. [July 1868] to a 14th Amendment-defined “citizens, subjects of government” – we all were reclassified as ‘subjugates’ – look it up; but you will not like the definition, nor the truth. The Insiders caused this ‘Rectal-Cranial Inversion Affliction’ to the American people; you may be offended by the translation –maybe you should be! Wake UP America!!
The minimum wage goes up. The price of the item the minimum wage person is selling goes up 1& 1/2 times the minimum wage increase. So now they are still behind the curve. Just that simple. So I only buy two of the items and not three. So business slows down and they get laid off.
Sgt.
Yes, it’s damn shame they can’t raise everyone’s taxes and give them a cushy pension plan for 50 years isn’t it?
As a business owner, when prices go up for me, my prices go up for you. It really is that simple. I don’t care at this point. Survival of the fittest I suppose. It is called inflation and soon people will get a real good idea of how it works. Tired of fighting it. At the end of the day I still need to make a living. I am seeing inflation escalate sharply in my area in the past 4 months or so (other than gasoline).
“The minimum wage goes up. The price of the item the minimum wage person is selling goes up 1& 1/2 times the minimum wage increase.”
I don’t see that. If minimum wage increased at McDonalds by $5 hr the final cost of the meal might go up a buck or 20% because of the volume. The greatest cost of most establishments is buying the establishment. The goods at the store are largely made in Asia and hence immune from manufacturing price rises.
I love how they think they can legislate their way to prosperity. While they are at it why not up it to $40 an hour and give everyone a $100,000 bonus for being residents of Oregon that why they have extra spending money to throw around and stimulate the economy even more. These progressive sheep have no idea how an economy works.
“I love how they think they can legislate their way to prosperity. ”
Sometimes the reverse is true. They took out the Glass-Steagall financial laws, the bankers became self regulating, the result wasn’t pretty. They removed the import tariffs, manufacturing fled, the result wasn’t pretty.
If one would examine the causes of our economic decline it would be synthesized to the above. All legislation is not bad.
there comes a time when you must ask why do I work?
The restaurants shuttered their doors…
Funny, around here, the restaurants are exempt from minimum wage laws.
I thought this was a nationwide policy?
JRS, you’re right about that part unless there’s been a change in the law that I’m not aware of. I know it used to be that way, but I’m not sure about what the law says now.
I’m sure I don’t have a comprehensive understanding of this, however, in some restaurants in NC, at least up to 5 years ago, waitresses were making $2.00 an hour and tips completed their income. Perhaps in restaurants, like fast food, minimum wage or more is paid, since those don’t offer opportunities for tips.
Back in the darks ages when I got my first “on the books” job minimum wage was $1.65 per hour. I was a stock boy for a liquor store in the Barrio( Very Spainsh)part of town. Being in California, Spanish is part of grade school curriculum, so I did OK. My boss a German death camp survivor, quickly gave me a raise to $2.25 per hour. He regularly gave me raises, till I graduated high school and went on to be a professional boat-builder( he could not match $10 per hour in 1973).
That is the way the system is supposed to work. Low wages to start, increases as you become more useful, and off into the real world when you complete your education/skills apprenticeship.
This artificial wage inflation BS will just employ STEM types like me to make and program robots to replace minimum wage positions. A robot doesn’t get attitude, show up late or spit in your food.
Rellik. I was a boat builder in Stockton @ Stephens Bros. for 5 years.
Challenger Yacht corp.
I did 32, 40 and 52 foot interiors, teak decks, and trim
1973.
The illegals did the hulls and nasty epoxy lay up. we
use to use Acetone as a shower at the end of shift.
My Trimaran was built in Stockton. Horstman Tri star 45.
I sold it in 2000.
Small world huh?
yep. I had a Piver trimaran 25 ft in1985.
rellik
Unfortunately there is pre free trade and the post free trade working world. My life was similar to yours as many can repeat the same story in that time. Those times have changed. Where I grew up along the Delaware River by Philadelphia and south to Delaware there was over 30,000 good paying jobs in both the Oil Refining and Chemical Industries. It was DuPont, Mobil, Shell, Monsanto, Hercules, BF Goodrich, BP, Texaco, Getty and Sunoco. Today there is at best 2300 jobs between all of them and they were generally the last of the industries to go. The idea that they would be replaced with high tech was not true.
“A robot doesn’t get attitude, show up late or spit in your food.”
This reminds me of the conversation between Henry Ford III and UAW Leader Walter Reuther in 1970 just before his suspicious demise in a plane crash (he actively spoke out against the Vietnam War). Ford touted the 1st generation robots and said, “Walter those robots won’t go out on strike”; Reuther replied, “They won’t buy any cars either”.
The technology won’t stop but Free Trade is a conscious decision that has destroyed the middle class and its cancer spreads from bottom to top as professionals like physicians can’t made $500K if their patients don’t made $50K.
I don’t have a solution but I damn sure know where the problem is.
America has already committed suicide. All of us are just waiting for the corpse to reek a little more. I doubt there is anyone who could come up with a viable solution to all of our nation’s ills at this point. It’s shameful…..
Right on. I will be damned if I can see or have heard a viable solution to our problems.
Kevin2 says
You bring up an interesting Philosophical thread. I often muse about what to do with all the stupid/lazy people? We are at the point where we can automate many of the positions(jobs) that lower skilled people are used to perform. That implies we can make everything and anything pretty cheap, as labor is the biggest cost to any enterprise. What do we do with the people we put out of work? I don’t know the answer to that, well I do, but it is not very ethical.
rellik
“well I do, but it is not very ethical”
Technology makes humans obsolete so the implication is the net worth of a human is to be either military or industrial cannon fodder? Hate to say it but both Stalin and Hitler had a similar mind set. If machines did all the work we would do what; eradicate the human race?
Those people are not by any means stupid and definitely not lazy and how dare you imply that. Hershey PA doesn’t make chocolate anymore as it was all shipped off to Mexico. I assume their workforce that they had for 100+ years as, “Stupid and Lazy”? The people at Carrier AC that are loosing their jobs to Mexico are, “Stupid and Lazy”? No, they just desire what was a birthright for an American, an opportunity. Free Trade with the 3rd world torpedoed that and in the end, no one is immune. No factory, no engineer, no electrician, no machines, no pipe fitter and in the end the Physician’s compensation takes the hit too.
They want to balance the books on the lowest who have the least political power.
Damn! I touched a nerve.
I worked for Hershey for
3 months in 2012 and I wasn’t
in Mexico. My fellow workers busted their asses
for shit wages.
Perhaps my terms punched your buttons.
“Stupid and lazy” was kind of an epitaph
I use in the Homeric sense.
Stupid and Lazy is my way of referring
to Democrats.
I feel for the Carrier people, but they are
just the canary in the mine.
Not everybody can get a STEM degree.
Everybody with a STEM degree can dig a ditch
clean a toilet, or pick fruit. At least I did.
The only birthright we all get is the certainty
of death and taxes. Deal with it.
I don’t agree with any Democrat policies and if we
weren’t saddled with Democrats we would be the richest
and freest people on earth.
This is my point- “Stupid and lazy” gave me Obama,
Clinton, LBJ, FDR, Wilson, 16th and 17th amendments
that all together have destroyed America.
I prep because the biggest threat to me is not
Russians, Chinese, NORK’s, nature or black swans,
it is my Neighbor down the road that thinks Hillary
is Gaia’s gift to man.
rellik
“I don’t agree with any Democrat policies and if we
weren’t saddled with Democrats we would be the richest
and freest people on earth.”
Does this infer that you support Republican Policy’s?
Free Trade (NAFTA & GATT) which destroyed the US was accomplished by Bill Clinton however he had to bribe Democrat Congressmen to get the necessary votes. No such force was needed to get the Republicans on board as it was their baby. GH Bush jest couldn’t get the Democrat votes needed for passage.
De-Regulating the Financial Sector by removing Glass-Steagall a 1935 fix of what caused the 1929 crash was a Democrat / Roosevelt law that kept the bankers as ethical as possible. Doing away with it was championed by Republicans and once again Slick Willy ended it. The result brought us derivatives and a Wall Street more closely aligned with a casino than investing and was signed into law by Bill Clinton but it was a Republican endeavor.
The problem with Democrats is that they abandoned the middle class decades ago. Hillary like her hubby manages to be both a Neo-Con Fascist and simultaneously a Communist.
I’m not a Republican.
There is not really a
political party that I
can identify with.
I find most the people on
this site quite compelling
sometimes.
I like the political discussion,
but I’m more interested in
how Kulafarmer deals with bugs.
and evading EPA rules.
Then why do you inject yourself into the conversation? It;s obvious Kevin 2 has the facts on his side and you, you have bugs.
Its so hillarious to see people ignore the exploitation of workers that went unchecked for decades just before and through the deepest part of the industrial age – (1840-1885).
Tell you what, you go work 12 hour days, 6 days a week, for 30 cents a day with no benefits, no retirement, no job safety regulations, no breaks, and no lunch, and tell me minimum standards are not needed…
The unions started out with the best of intentions, but like every other facet of the economy, were infiltrated by big money interests, and fostered by a government that took greats pains (and payoffs) to look the other way.
As Cpt. Crunch said, “Shut them all right the fuck down and get this party started!”
Fuck the death by 1000’s of cuts, slice down the center of the highway, don’t just cross it! BRING ON THE RESET, LET THE STRONGEST LIVE ON!
Mac fix your moderation system, I’m getting tired of seeing the moderation message….
I don’t blame the people wanting a living wage, even starting out needing a set amount to just survive with the essential basics, like food and shelter, able to pay the bills. Part of the problem is the unlimited illegal outsiders flooding in to further lower wages and to cast votes for treason. The American people did not cause this problem, the current ripoff system is to blame. Moving the jobs out of country for vastly higher profit is actually treason, though not under predatory capitalism dictates which reign supreme throughout these corporate fascist United States. Only money for war, foreign aid and weapons, none for infrastructure or job creation in America. Call it sold out by evil government, that’s closer to reality. GMO’s that poison, vaccinations that poison and kill, tainted food with no country of origin labels, Big Pharma poisons pushed out to kill by the millions. The FDA in on the corruption. It’s all about killing off the people every way possible for more and more profit for the few. It will only get worse. Most people commenting here are not in this scrounge for a living existence. Food stamp allotments don’t feed the needy enough to eat anything but basic garbage, which is what most grocery store food has become. There is no political solution forthcoming that will change anything, if they are on TV they are acceptable to the existing powers that control the show. They all flat out suck and none are worthy of any logical persons vote. So called left vs right, conservative vs liberal, in reality is divisive hate your neighbor propaganda that keeps people divided and destroys this population further. Master propagandists call the shots and it’s working exactly as planned with minimal collective pushback.
“predatory capitalism”
It has a close relative crony capitalism that facilitates bribery to manipulate the system to favor those suppling the greatest reward for the politicians. It reached its zenith in corruption with unaccounted for banking bailouts complements of the US public. Bankers where then rewarded with huge bonuses and no one finds this a form of socialism. Am I missing something here? Trillions to bankers that broke the law is not an entitlement but the collateral damage of people sub employed as its result is.
The brainwashing is complete.
Kevin2
The brainwashing is complete. Never a comment on here about the biggest welfare cheats of all, corporations. That Walmart treats our taxpayer paid welfare benefits like employee benefits and put 1 million on welfare rolls. And so on. Go figure.
Taxpayers paid for Walmart airport, $11 million to PillsburydDoughboy advertising in so the America, troops in Pakistan covering 66 corporations move manufacturing to Pakistan. It is endless what fat cats get from taxpayers. But Omg let someone get 7 bucks an hour and hear the squalling! This country is too dumb to live.
RED, as I have said before, you are the problem, not the solution. Just another member of the FSA. Go ahead. Keep begging. Let me know how it works out for you.
Interesting. No long list of rebuttals at that which doesn’t fit the narrative is ignored. Trillions given and wars fought to maintain and expand globalist bankers rule and we hear nothing. Those trillions don’t count and much of it is invested outside of the US.
Corporate / Banking Finance handouts is not welfare. How much was GM given and used to build factories in China? There is little difference in that thought process and Joe Biden calling QE an “Investment”.
I’m not a Republican nor Democrat as I find both absolutely corrupt. I do hold my nose and vote for The Second Amendment as its one of the few (and very important), maybe only campaign promise often kept. I heard Clinton say, “No NAFTA” at the top of his lungs. I knew better and he was anti Second Amendment anyway. Voted for GH Bush and was nauseated.
Kevin 2,
There will be no rebuttals, the mega global corporations and their bed partners the government have completed the brainwashing cycle and now have hung everyone in the Us out to dry, including those who still blindly think America has any semblance of capitalism and think that bottom wage earners are the cause of our economic problems. They think they’re being patriotic Americans protecting capitalism when they don’t understand it’s been dead for years. Yeah, we are past the point of no return now.
” bottom wage earners are the cause of our economic problems.”
Yep, they are confusing the symptom with the cause.
Interestingly a Super Wall Mart of today was about the same type job of an ACME , A&P or similar big grocery store in the Mid Atlantic 50 years ago. Actually Wall Mart is larger and certainly more diverse. Well let me say this clearly, “BACK IN MY DAY” they paid a wage that didn’t require people to simultaneously go on food stamps to feed their families.
I think the above states the case clearly.
FACT: The minimum wage would be over $21 /hour if it actually kept pace with productivity. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/02/13/minimum-wage-productivity_n_2680639.html
FACT: The average person makes less now than they did 20 years ago when adjusted for inflation. http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2014/10/09/for-most-workers-real-wages-have-barely-budged-for-decades/
FACT: Jobs are being replaced by automation not an increase in the minimum wage. A recent government study says that 83% of all jobs under $20 /hour will be replaced by robots: http://www.marketwatch.com/story/the-robots-are-coming-for-jobs-that-pay-20-an-hour-or-less-white-house-finds-2016-02-22?mod=mw_share_facebook
FACT: Growing inequality is about to push our societies into conditions resembling pre-revolutionary France: https://www.ted.com/talks/nick_hanauer_beware_fellow_plutocrats_the_pitchforks_are_coming?language=en
If retailers have to pay higher wages and stay solvent, they have three choices:
Cut back on employees’ hours.
The owner works longer hours at less “draw”.
Raise prices.
The minimum wage in my province is rising from $10.00/hr to $15.00/hr (not all at once), the government thinks it will create jobs. Higher wages and higher prices go together, like lower wages and lower prices; you can’t have a mix of low and high.
You can raise the minimum wage just so much and then the people who went to university for a few years or who are skilled tradesmen rightly believe that they deserve to have higher wages, and then prices increase even more.
Raising the minimum wage is total nonsense.
what a moronic article.
i wont bother linking to the hundreds of article with expert opinion that counter this BS, because that would imply your readers have the tech savvy to understand what to do with a hyperlink, which is probably too much for the morons that believe the best society is one with slave labour. fuckwits.
Expert opinion BEFORE THE FACT is one thing.
This is AFTER THE FACT reality.
Do you really think raising minimum wage happens in a vacuum, with no effect on consumer prices, labor hours, unemployment, etc.?
Thanks for not posting your hundreds of expert links.
Mac Slavo
Can we assume that if we cut wages to the point of the 3rd world (and how can you not to compete) we can potentially achieve full employment? Living in a shack with a tin roof has a price too. Go to Central America. The wealthy all pay the Desperate People Tax as they must live behind walls and hire body guards.
They will be converting McMansions into multiple unit apartments, gating housing developments that are presently not gated and having private security companies for the remaining haves to keep them from the increasing number of have nots. The next economic hit will be its catalyst.
Mac, you tell him. Wonder whose fantasy world he’s from? BTW, I think the article is spot on.
Mac, I posted a link to a new site I found after watching a U tube video from the Corbett Report:
http://youtu.be/eZtaPD5FKAw
The link is to this site: http://www.ripenear.me
It sounded to me like there are some people on this site that are living in poverty and could use a hand up, not a hand out. I posted the link to the site because I was able to find at least one person in my area that is selling tomatoe seedlings (varietal and heirloom) for $2 each, as well as a dozen eggs for $4 and herbs for $2 a bunch.
Why did you delete my other posts? I think this is one of the most revolutionary P2P sites I have learned about. It is also an excellent way to meet other preppers and people concerned about quality food. The above site allows people to post produce that is free, for trade, or for sale.
When people cannot get a job, even a minimum wage job, this site could be a lifeline for some people.
Typo on my name.
Fucking wetbacks everywhere. no insurance,drive like fucking
idiots and shit on the floor like animals. Welcome to California…. unfucking unbelievable
I once lived in Paramount CA.
Right across the LA river from Compton CA.
There were like two legal families on the
entire 3 blocks of San Juan street( Google it).
My neighbors on Sunday had their kids in dresses
and suits as they went to church.
Every day a kid came by with a wagon full of
Tamales for 50 cents each.
Some white trash moved in at the end of the street.
They used to speed up and down the block at all hours of the night.
I rode my 10 speed 4 miles each way to go to a “white ” school. One day on my way to school, I came across the white trash car stripped in my churches parking lot. The white trash moved out.
I agree that the tattooed gang bangers need to be killed on sight.
We need to deal with the illegals, we need to be smart about it. I’d rather live with Hispanics than blacks.
Not talking about “Hispanics” talking about the shit coming across and don’t give a fuck about anything. I was born and raised in California and have many friends that are of color, just getting tired of the invasion and this state going to shit….
Fuck it,
I gave up and left.
Where I live now I don’t even
attempt to figure out race.
You mainland guys don’t even
have a clue about diversity.
I have no problem with a $15 minimum wage for one very simple reason: you get exactly what you pay for with employees.
If I’m going to hire someone to do a job, the first thing I’m looking for is someone who knows how to work and has a credible, consistent track record of being employed. For that alone, you should expect to pay at least $15 per hour out of the gate. I look at hiring someone this way: it does not matter what the job is, because if they come in the front door knowing how to work, I can always teach them everything they need to know for doing the job.
What kinds of people fall into the category of people who do not know how to work, and are what you get for $8 or even $10 per hour? People who don’t show up for work and never bother to call in. People who come to work drunk or on drugs. People who steal to support a habit. People who come to work dressed like they are going to a drive-by shooting instead of a job. The only reason you hire them is because they have a pulse.
I’ve been the guy who has brought people on board as hires. I’ve been the supervisor who has had to work with whatever someone else has hired and put in front of me. I’ve been the rank-and-file employee who has had to work with whatever someone else hired. I can say this much: if you pay $12 to $15 per hour, minimum, to start, for at least 30 hours per week, you’re going to get a significantly better grade of employee than you would get for $8 or $10 per hour. You’re going to be more selective in what you hire because you want to know exactly what you’re getting for that money.
PF..You would get some lazy 15$ hour employees. Minimum wage is for entry level and unskilled employees. The more skilled you are, the better the pay. Thats what apprenticeships were all about. Damn….the people sure have been brainwashed by the MSM socialists.
I know people working for Fortune 500 companies that have poor managers, and they don’t hardly do jack shit all day except talk to friends and family on the phone, play video games, and watch porn.
Sounds like 40 percent of gov employees.
They are making around 25 bucks an hour, and can’t produce anything but that diploma behind their desk. Higher wages won’t necessarily produce better or smarter employees.
It all comes down to management and good common sense training.
In the neighborhood/township near our city, we have a big grocery store, two convenience stores, and a pharmacy, plus a 24 hour greasy spoon diner. In early 2008 a lot was cleared near where all these businesses could be seen at one time.
An acquaintance across town worked as a manager for Sonic drive in restaurant, and told me that another Sonic was going in on that lot. As it was nearing completion, I was out of work with back and neck issues that kept me from driving long distances.
As my acquaintance knew this, he approached me about hiring on for a while to help with the restaurant set up and training of employees, in a supervisory position.
The young nut jobs they had promoted to actually manage the day to day activities were idiots and could care less about quality of food.
When the owners came in from out of state for the week long grand opening, I gave my two cents about how important it would be to make every item out the door be consistently perfect and begin a good relationship with the local customers in order for the business to maintain. They looked at me as if I was bucking for a manager’s job, and said we have been in this business a whole lot longer than you, so we know what is going on.
I said, “yea but, you haven’t been in a community like this, where everybody knows everybody and talks about everything to each other.” Also, I said, “if this place starts getting a bad reputation, from serving sub par food, it won’t stay in business long”. They laughed at me.
After it was up and running, I quit. After three months the little pimple faced pip squeak manager, that thought his shit didn’t stink, got busted for drugs, and then the restaurant went through about a dozen different managers, while putting out sub par food, for three years. We finally quit eating there.
Business got so bad, they shut it down and the windows are boarded up right now.
Why? Poor management from the onset.
rabbitone says:
Comment ID: 3525754
I am expecting Hillary to federalize dental and vision care in her term.
I say: Whether the media is lying or not, it has been said that hillary clinton has already said that she’s going to pick up where obama left off……. And I don’t doubt it.
—————————————————————–
Braveheart1776 says:
Comment ID: 3525804
February 23, 2016 at 4:18 pm
Kevin2, in reference to EBT, there’s supposedly going to be a million people kicked off EBT between now and summer. I smell ‘big trouble’ ahead.
I say: If you’re stockpiling food, you’d better be prepared to protect it. Stockpile it and keep your mouth shut about it. Act like you don’t have shit. Don’t let your neighbor’s see you carting plats of canned goods in to your house.
—————————————————————–
slingshot says:
Comment ID: 3525773
February 23, 2016 at 2:59 pm
We should raise the minimum wages to $25.00 per hour.
I want to see who survives.
Close all the stores.
I say: And that is why everyone here that is posting should know how to garden, home can food, have more skills than their regular work job.
—————————————————————–
slingshot says:
Comment ID: 3525790
February 23, 2016 at 3:48 pm
“they would be eating grubs and worms and like them too”.
I say: You’d be surprised how many countries in the world actually do eat insects. We’ve all heard of Chocolate Covered Ants. Grubs, Worms, Grasshoppers, Crickets, and even maggots are good sources of protein. Once you get your mind past what you are eating, you’ll be fine. (P.S, I haven’t tried any of this either). Maybe I should try some of them this Summer.
Mike.
Oh Yes! Put in a garden last year and I am about to get to it again, with the lessons I have learned.
Got me a worm grunter. No excuse now. Ground is very moist but you can feel the vibrations radiate out from the post. Eating Raw seafood and clams/oysters helps you get over the Gag reflex. Raw Eggs helps.
You can eat raw eggs and seafood. You may get sick and die. I’m not doing it.
RoyinNC
I should have been dead Long Ago.
Good luck Chief!
Wey heya hooa woola hey. Wey heya hooa woola yey.
Wey heya hooa woola hey. Wey heya hooa woola yey.
Wey heya hooa woola hey. Wey heya hooa woola yey…
People $15.00 hr is squat. It’s not a living wage they will have to raise the poverty level so people can still get programs. If people want a living wage then they need to be more valuable training and college is how it’s gonna happen. My work pays $18 hr to start and can’t get help that’s any good. its expensive to live we are way behind in wages folks. If they paid $28 to $30 an hr with time and a half after 8 hrs with forced overtime then it would be proper compensation. There are fools who will work hard for nothing thinking they are well paid because it’s the best they ever had. Problem is everybody has different living standards. White folks do not live with the whole extended family in the same house like Mexicans will. Some people wanna trade their car in every 3 years. While some will patch the same piece of shit just to not have payments. Some go out to lunch everyday and have drinks too. Some eat out of bags. White folks have a higher standards of living and they can afford it too a lot of times. I don’t know about you but I’m not living like a vagrant just because Jose lives in his Corolla. My standards will not go down cause of idiots working for peanuts.
What kind of loser businesses can’t afford a raise for the people who create the money?
My son bought a business last year and inherited 9 employees. It was netting the owner about $1.5 million a year. Wages were terrible. To keep everyone in place, he gave them all a $1 per hour increase. Cost him about $1500 a month or $18000 per year. Six months later his income is up and he has the same employees. He also sleeps better at night.
Starving people to death is counterproductive. If you want people to work for nothing, quit bitching about how it offends your puny heart to see homeless on the streets.
Rebecca, I bet your son’s employees have some skills. A dollar a hour is not much of a profit if the workers produce products that create Profit. Some types of businesses have a very low margin and can only pay minimum wages for UNSKILLED Labor. I have been watching your posts since you joined here…. Spit out the mdm blue pill and take the red one. Shed that liberal veil that is blocking the light. I will enlighten you on your water situation….I Have the credentials.
Minimum wage for entry level, unskilled workers, is not “starving people to death”.
It is called “working your way up”.
In my day, in the 60’s and 70’s, it was commonly know that a person “paid their dues”, and did whatever it took to hold their first job for six months to a year, until they could either move to a better position or a better company.
Young people in this day and age expect to be paid like they are college graduates with years of experience, upon entering the workforce for the first time. It just doesn’t work that way in the real world. No business has the burden to pay people for more than they are worth.
When a person becomes a real, proven asset to their employer, then they have a right to ask for more. If the management doesn’t have the common sense to do what it takes to keep a good employee content and hired on, then the employee should seek out options and move on.
I have had managers that were more concerned with filling their ego, and their own pockets from bonuses, instead of keeping a valued and trusted employee around. We parted ways quickly.
As owner and manager of three successful businesses in my lifetime, I always rewarded good work, and had no patience for laziness and un-trustworthiness.
passinwiththewind
“In my day, in the 60’s and 70’s, it was commonly know that a person “paid their dues””
Your day was 50 years ago. In “your day” people waled into Steel Mills, Heavy Manufacturing and the like. In your day kids worked at McDonalds. Think that 50 year old behind the counter is just getting a late start in, “Paying Their Dues” or were they more likely a casualty of the loss of, “Good Jobs At Good Wages”.
Newsflash……. its only going to get worse as any job that can be exported to the third world will be exported to the third world and those facilities will be protected by the blood and treasure of the US.
You are another dumbass punk that needs to learn to read.
You are spouting at me like i am to blame for the international outsourcing of jobs. I never said anything about the greedy corporate bastards that jumped on the NAFTA style outsourcing trains.
In fact, to me it is a sort of treason.
Get a grip you blind pig, most of the employees at fast food joints/McDonalds, are not fifty somethings. The majority are still teenagers and twenty somethings, just like they were in the seventies. Very few elderly work at fast food because they have to. The majority of the elderly that work there is because they are in “management” and make pretty darn good money, or they are doing it out of boredom.
If a fifty year old man, or woman, is working there and not in management, and can’t find something else better, it is most likely because they have no education, experience, or traning in anything else, or are just plain stupid/dumb people.
Look around, the majority of people, especially of your generation, are lazy and stupid. So stfu, and go get you some more tats and piercings.
88% of Workers Who Would Benefit From a Higher Minimum Wage Are Older Than 20, 33% Are Over 40: http://www.epi.org/publication/wage-workers-older-88-percent-workers-benefit/
“Get a grip you blind pig, most of the employees at fast food joints/McDonalds, are not fifty somethings.”
I have no idea where you get your information as McDonalds and Wall Mart here in SW Florida are loaded with middle age people that need a job. Its not “fun” its a necessity. I seen the same in Delaware in 2010. OBTW I have almost 20/20 vision thanks to LASIK a decade ago.
Oh, 2/3 or 66% of the people with an EBT card are WORKING POOR.
” In 2010, more than three times as many SNAP households had members who were employed as compared to those who relied solely on SNAP benefits for food. “
“Minimum wage for entry level, unskilled workers, is not “starving people to death”.”
It absolutely is which is why 43 million people have EBT cards today a 400% increase because they are the working poor. The jobs now being created are low pay as the backbone of the USA, the mighty wealth creating manufacturing sector has been eviscerated. These people are to a huge degree not “Entry Level” but displaced from former well paying pre NAFTA, GATT (China Free Trade). Look at the US largest employer WallMart and who is working there? Kids? Hardly.
Right again Kevin, but you’re wasting your time. This guy is still living in the past and thinking in the past. People refuse to acknowledge capitalism in America is dead. What happens to small businesses who try to expand and compete with large corporations in bed with the government? They’re not around any longer are they? No, they get leaned on with environmental issues, refused access to low cost loans or outright gifts of big tax breaks because the big guys have bought all the politicians. Capitalism in America is dead, it was in good shape 50 years ago but things have changed. If you can’t understand what’s happening in the here and now you’ll be relegated to being a puppet dancing on the strings of the big mega-government, blaming people who need decent employment when there obviously isn’t any left because the boys could make a killing outsourcing it overseas for a quarter an hour. But I guess when you’re retired, none of that matters. Why worry about the facts when you can revel in the comfortable memories of 50 years ago when you were just a young kid and things were going great?
You spout off about 43 million on EBT as the “working poor”.
This just shows what a dumbass you really are, and how little you know.
I bring up things of the past to show the differences of how it was then, with now. I don’t live in the past or I would not be a prepper, now.
The EBT program may be administered through the states but has mandates and restrictions that is nationwide.
Very few on ebt are working at all.
If a person makes around 15k annually, they are considered eligble for ebt…if….they meet other criteria.
Even then it is prorated and they would receive about $15.00 each month.
That can go up substantially for each dependent child.
Another point you make that shows your ignorance and lack of understanding of what is actually going on in society.
Walmart employees are not all kids, however; and the stats will show I am correct, the majority of elderly that work at Walmart are their because they are elderly and choose to continue to work because they have nothing better to do.
In our local Walmart, and it is a carbon copy of what is happening across the Nation, I know a 65 year old department manager, with 30 years in, that has about a dozen employees under her and 10 of those are over sixty. I asked why they were still working and she said all but one are here because they have nothing better to do and have in about 15 to 20+ years each with this store.
It is like home to them, so they had rather be here than at home, alone, or with a crotchety spouse.
So, contrary to your ideology K2 and billybob, the elderly workers are doing it to keep from being bored and just drying up and dying. There are exceptions, but the majority of them choose to work instead of drawing 100% SS and retirement.
The average ten bucks an hour wage is not “starving” them.
Even with Walmart, if you put in the time, you get the dime.
$400.00 gross pay weekly, for light work and clean working conditions with some benefits, isn’t low pay unless you are living above your means.
You younger, and less wiser people are what is wrong with society as a whole. You fuks would like nothing more than to see a Bernie Sanders Socialist style gov, and watch as businesses close from town to town, just so you can pocket a few extra bucks each week.
Not everyone that has a high school diploma gets to live like a privileged character. You don’t like 8 to ten bucks an hour, then further your education and training and stop looking to gov and businesses, to carry your ass in to wealth. Morons.
You sir are correct, the new normal is part time minimum age work and its going to get worse for people, now better: http://www.epi.org/publication/wage-workers-older-88-percent-workers-benefit/
The robots are coming for jobs that pay $20 an hour or less, White House finds: http://www.marketwatch.com/story/the-robots-are-coming-for-jobs-that-pay-20-an-hour-or-less-white-house-finds-2016-02-22?mod=mw_share_facebook
Billy
Damn at first I thought that was addressed at me and then, “I got confused” but I figured out in short order its for Pwtw.
I personally like Henry Ford and Walter Reuther; they’re complementary. The US was better because of both of them. Interestingly the cry against the minimum wage was similar to the statements against The Wagner Act of 1935 that legalized labor unions creating, “Unfair Labor Practices”. Unfair……a key word and principal in American Jurist Prudence.
PWTW has apparently canvassed both Wall Mart the largest employer and come to the conclusion that the adults that work there are doing it for fun. Employers like Wall Mart, in the day paid a livable wage; no longer as we compete with the lowest of the low on the planet thanks to globalism. The working poor are the majority of EBT card recipients. The roughly 30 million added to EBT cards didn’t just decide to get lazy in the last seven years.
“$400.00 gross pay weekly,”
Actually its $6.97 / hr or $278 week gross which by the way is below the poverty line which is why they qualify for EBT cards. Your taxes subsidized Wall Mart workers.
Its a fact……..
Let’s look at the other elephant in the room.
I’m not opposed to “minimum wage” entirely, because if we got rid of it, the lowest wage would be determined by supply and demand.
We have a GLUT of SUPPLY and nowhere near enough DEMAND for workers. I’d hate to see how low wages would drop if the “free market” determined the prevailing price. So long as people could get someone to do a job, that’d be the price for doing it. The “rock bottom” would have to be the point where you could just live better on welfare than having a job.
We have to end “globalism” and sanction operations that send jobs overseas. If we don’t protect the jobs done here in the USA, the “free market” will only balance out when we are as impoverished as the average person on planet Earth.
Exactly right.
When a cheeseburger, not a combo meal, starts costing $7.00 each; not too many people going to make those same drive-thrus.
The minimum wage is not the problem. The problem is the lack of good jobs. You now have most people working in nothing more than a service industry trying to support a family instead of moving up to better paying jobs as they got experience. If you raise the minimum wage, prices will go up correspondingly and they still will be no better off. I remember when I was in the Air Force and every time we got a cost of living increase, everything in town went up. We would wind up worse off than if they had not given us a raise. I don’t pretend to know how to solve the problem, but I do see it getting worse as time goes by. Automation, computerization and sending all of the jobs out of the country will continue to defeat the efforts of anyone trying to keep a good paying job. At the rate we are going, it will eventually become impossible for anyone to support their families.
JS
“free market” will only balance out when we are as impoverished as the average person on planet Earth.”
Two decades ago sitting in the control room a coworker with a BSME was touting the great benefits of Free Trade. At that point it had yet to effect his profession. Fast forward a decade and the same guy was reading Mechanical Engineering magazine and commented that, “They are now getting engineers from India for $20,000 /year”. I reminded him of his previous support for this insanity.
Free Trade is the right to directly economically compete with someone that lives in a hut, built of mud, that has the aspiration to move into a tin shed.
Free shit trumps empty promises.
“Free Trade is the right to directly economically compete with someone that lives in a hut, built of mud, that has the aspiration to move into a tin shed.”
Love this line. As an engineer working for a small global industrial company, I saw the closure of four large factories here in the states, largely due to “Free Trade”. Our business was continually moved to Mexico and our factory there vastly increased in size. Now, that same factory is suffering due to competition with the Chinese, whose labor is minimal and subsidized by the communist government.
I am not an economist, but have seen the demise of the western industrial sector during my 36 year career, all with the same company. I had a hard time understanding how, with a BS in Chem. Eng., a non-educated UAW worker moved in next to me making 50% more annual income than me. The economics of that situation, though, was that GM could afford to pay him more due to their business model. My company, which supplied the steel industry, could not give me the same wages as this man even with my education.
Arbitrarily making all businesses adhere to a government regulated wage will kill many business sectors. Some can take the hit, some cannot. Liberal politicians always forget these “warnings” though when things get worse. They just continue to blame the 1%.
“It’s Simple Economics Really”
But in the end its a race to the bottom as we the developed world drag ourselves down by directly competing with the third world. For the first time in history that I’m aware of, the standard of living for the masses will drop while productivity dramatically increases in a country that supposedly has self government. Its obvious that there is a flaw in that self government as the mechanism to achieve this downward mobility would never have public support. The only possible explanation is that we live in an oligarchy as the Princeton study has shown.
We will continually debate the slice of the economic pie we receive while being served smaller and smaller pies until we reach equilibrium with the developing world.
The way I see it, if you don’t like getting paid 7.25 an hour to flip burgers, then get off your ass and get an education. Don’t cry and moan about needing more money if you aren’t willing to better yourself to EARN it. I am sick and tired of the handout nation we have become. nearly everyone expects to be handed what they want and need without lifting a finger to help themselves or others. And why the hell are Trump or Clinton even in the running for the Presidency. Wasn’t she a housewife until after Bill left office?
Sorry, got carried away for a minute. Get ready America…
You suggest for people to just go out and get an education but fail to see that its expensive (19k+ /year). Many people already have higher education and cant find work in their field (its called underemployment, which is very high).
Also keep in mind over 50% of the US population makes less than 30k /year so low wages are the new “normal” http://endoftheamericandream.com/archives/goodbye-middle-class-51-percent-of-all-american-workers-make-less-than-30000-dollars-a-year
Do you understand that the percentage of good jobs, with an education, skill or not, has significantly been reduced because of the Free Trade agreements? What was common is now rare.
Please read through and digest what has been written here by the posters, look around, do the math.
So your argument doesn’t make sense. If you are spouting higher minimum wages on one hand and knowing it will lead to fewer jobs and more business closures, then why piss and moan and blame it on “free Trade”.
I think we all agree the biggest problem for most workers is the lack of plenty of jobs to choose from. It doesn’t take an einstein like you to make everyone aware of this. We have been seeing and some feeling it, first hand, since the late eighties, even before Nafta became full circle with slick willy at the helm.
What is your point? There is nothing you or any of us can do except vote for the trumpster and hope and pray he can get something done. The last trump is the last hope for American workers and jobs, “if” he is speaking the truth.
all the others are globalist and communist and will do nothing but keep trashing America. They spout how great everything is going to be while shoveling more shit around our homes and lives.
Get used to it, and live with it, or move to an Island, because if trump isn’t the man, then it is game over in 2525.
What is currently happening is the taxpayer is subsidizing WallMart as their wages are so low employees qualify for EBT cards to pay the grocery bill. BACK IN THE DAY a job like that payed a living wage.
Productivity increases and wages dropped. We have walked backwards.
Correct, tax payers end up paying for these underpaid employees through some form of social assistance, yet the MSM would like you to think its the person who is being underpaid that’s at fault… http://laborcenter.berkeley.edu/the-high-public-cost-of-low-wages/
You guys are wasting your time talking to him, at first he foams at the mouth about your comments about what’s happened to America and then turns around and tells you he knew it all along. I think it’s referred to as being on both sides of the argument, as long as he can bitch about you both, it really doesn’t matter, it’s not about facts with this one, it’s about what’s all in his ” mind”, which seems to me is a confused state at best.
Joshua, I’m really PISSED OFF at what you wrote and with the comments of those who agree with you.
You really TRULY believe the minimum wage is a job killer that takes work away from those who need it the most?
Really?
My own view of REALITY is that a minimum wage ENSURES the HUGE profitability of the owner(s)!
Study your history, man!
Don’t you remember WHY minimum wage laws became LEGISLATED?
It’s because employers either had minimum heart or NO heart!
Then you write that “at the end of the day those jobs really aren’t worth that much, no matter how much you pout about how unfair the world is.
Joshua, why are you STRANGELY silent about the baseball players who make over $100,000. a game over 160 games???
Do you REALLY think ANYONE is worth that, even when they don’t even work EVERY inning?
Come on, man!
Men and women are made in the image of God. Men and women have DIGNITY.
The right to live implies a LIVING wage, Joshua, not a SUBHUMAN one, and it does NOT give you (or me) the right to throw LESS skilled people under the bus, nor does it give us the right to be complicit with INSANE salaries of OVERglorified and OVERworshiped SPORTS people!
Let me respectfully suggest, my fellow friend in the cause for justice, that anything less is just pure bullshit and downright evil.
Passionately yours,
the Lone Ranger
“Evil is that which destroys.” – M. Scott Peck. M.D.
“It is no secret that evil is live spelled backward.” – M. Scott Peck, M.D.
“Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere.” – Dr. MLK, Jr.
Great points, LR.
Most of the newer generation have a brain fart on economics, like K2 and billybob. They like to say we are stuck in the old ways. Because we are wiser and they can’t see the forest for the trees, they just follow a socialist style of world whereby everyone is created equal and should be given credit/huge wages, before they work for it, and actually prove themselves.
“before they work for it, and actually prove themselves”
They already have worked for it and have proved themselves. I’m almost 60 and seen what was and now what is. Its unfortunate that $50k employment has fled overseas and its replacement is $20k employment. Its not Leave It To Beaver anymore.
I was personally very lucky getting into heavy industry and remaining employed. That was the standard at one time; its now the extreme exception.
Pwtw,
first question I’d like to ask is how many personalities do you have? Are you sure your name isn’t ” Sybil?” Where was it EVER said we were calling for a socialist style of world and everybody was created equal? And NOW you’re AGREEING that a minimum wage is a good thing after you just got through calling it socialism in your earlier rants? If this your idea of being ” wiser” as you get older? To divorce yourself completely from reality and doing a 180 degree turn from what you previously ranted about? Don’t put words in my mouth either, you know damn well that neither myself or K2 EVER said anything about wanting socialism but that doesn’t stop you from outright lying I see. You need psychiatric help instead of lessons in economics, you seem to have an obsessive need to prove you’re right no matter how much you have to lie or distort the truth. Get some help, the professional kind, you need that a hell of a lot more then economics lessons .