Ten Million Homes (19%) Face Foreclosure; 50% of Mortgages Underwater

by | Nov 9, 2011 | Headline News | 128 comments

Do you LOVE America?


    Fifty to Seventy-Five Percent. That’s how much home prices will slide before this is all over.

    Here’s the latest evidence that what we’re looking at is not just some short-term real estate cycle:

    Of the 55-million families with mortgages, 10.4-million of them “are sliding toward failure and foreclosure”—a tragedy that will depress the U.S. housing market for years to come, a result of too many houses for sale and too few buyers.

    That’s the blunt conclusion of distinguished economics journalist William Greider, to be published in an article in the November 14th issue of The Nation magazine.

    America’s “Economic recovery will have to wait until that surplus (excess houses) is gone, because the housing sector has always led the way out of recession,” Greider says. “The more housing supply exceeds demand, the more prices fall. The more prices fall, the more families get sucked into the deep muddy. The vicious cycle is known in the industry as the death spiral. So far, there’s no end in sight.”

    Source: Global Research via Before It’s News

    The fact is, easy money from the Fed and no-income financing by banks took home prices to obscene levels during the real estate boom. The home values we saw at the peak in 2006-early 2007 were totally manufactured and without merit. That’s why over half of American households are now underwater in their mortgages:

    According to a note by real estate expert Mark Hanson, referenced by CNBC’s Diana Olick, the truth of the matter is that, if one were to truly factor all implicit equity reductions, the number of underwater houses is…half. Expect this to proceed like a shockwave in the PrimeX space once the market comprehends what this means…

    Source: Zero Hedge

    The banks will never recover this money.

    Nearly 20% of homeowners will, at some point during this crisis, fall into the delinquency/foreclosure process. That is a massive number. Out of 100 homes that may be in your neighborhood, on average, 20 of the homeowners will not be able to make their monthly mortgage payments. Of those 100 homes, fifty of them are underwater in their mortgage.

    The numbers will likely get even worse, especially when you consider that interest rates will explode as US dollar risk becomes reality to investors around the world. Imagine what would happen if mortgage rates reached 1981 levels and were in excess of 10% (as high as 18% in some cases!). You think we have a glut of homes on the market now? At 10% interest or more, sales will almost completely lock up.

    You can say good bye to the housing recovery for at least a decade. It’s just not going to happen.


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      1. wonder when the rates are going to go up. I dont see why they would not try and keep them low so that if 10 percent rates happened, nobody will buy, if thats true its going to get really really bad. and your better off trying to save the money and live most of your life with multiple people. crazy. this is off subject but any preppers out there bought any type of solar panels like 20 watt or anything. or any suggestions? I need to buy a portable water filter and a few solar panals. got 2 55 gallon drums ready to be filled with diesel at the sign of any collapse. im ready.

        • Interest rates historically were raised to slow up consumer demand by making borrowing more expensive to reduce inflation and to increase saving so the government has a greater pool of money to borrow.

          Today the economy is moving at a snails pace so increasing interest rates are counter productive. Uncle Sam now goes to the Banana Republic route and bypasses traditional borrowing and just has the Federal Reserve buy their treasuries with newly created money.

          Throw out the playbook of the 1970s / 1980s. It no longer applies.

          • The FED should be required by law to buy ALL US Debt. 🙂

            • dk

              Explain that please.

            • Yes, Dk, please do explain. Debt monetization is going to be the death of us. I’m intrigued with your reasoning…

            • Well, I will admit that it is just off the top of my head, and again, I do not consider myself an economic and/or financial expert,


              The Treasury sells US bonds to “investors”.

              Investors buy these bonds with dollars or some other form of fiat currency (based upon the dollar value of that currency).

              These US Bonds cover the annual budget deficit which last year was $1.2 trillion. The bonds are sold weekly, I believe.

              The US govt under the Treasury uses these dollars or other currencies to fund its obligations.

              The bigger the obligations to be paid, the less income (from taxes and balance of trade deficits,)the larger the bond offering, the more bonds the Treasury sells, the more dollars or other currencies that the US Government takes in to fund its “obligations”, (ie defense procurement, government worker salaries, food stamps, etc).

              The US government pays interest on these bonds which is why investors buy them.

              Investors need a safe haven for their excess cash, and the secondary market readily converts these bonds into cash if the investor needs their money back before the term of the bond expires.

              Additionally, it is possible to speculate on the change of interest rate which may occur at any given time, on any given issue, during the life of the bond, which affects the readily available market value of these bonds to investors who need to buy or sell them (ie stash excess cash or get liquid and put their cash into a different investment for a higher yield and more “risk”, the US Govt widely perceived as the lowest risk).

              The FED purchased a portion of these bonds during QE2, either because there were not enough buyers to meet the US cash requirements to meet its obligations from the sale of its bonds; or because the FED needed excess deposits on the ledgers of the members banks to protect THEIR liquidity from loan losses; OR both. (I suspect the latter).

              The FED purchased its share of QE2 US Govt Bonds with money they printed (Helicopter Ben).

              The asset, the US Govt bond, was placed on the FED’s books to demonstrate their liquidity ratio and to shore up their balance sheets with fiat assets.

              The interest the Treasury pays on the bonds to investors was taken as income (profit)by the member banks and propped up the Income Statement and while the fiat assets propped up the Balance Sheets of the member banks.

              I am not a CPA or a CFA BUT it seems to me that if the GB’s can buy some of OUR debt to benefit themselves, they ought to buy ALL of OUR debt to benefit US; or at least HALF.

              What is the difference between the FED as a buyer; or other nations, pension funds, life insurance companies, or hedge funds?

              NONE that I can see. The FED gets the same interest rate WE pay other investors and it makes a profit on money that they have created out of thin air.

              With the proper oversight the FED ought to be buying our fiat paper with their fiat paper. 🙂

              Then if WE sell them too much fiat assets and they create too much fiat paper to buy it and one or both of us go bankrupt, who loses?

              The FED.

              The only difference I see in THAT scenario and the current scenario is that other nations, investors and institutions who buy our bonds would not be “captive” to the US financial system and the FRN could lose world reserve status.

              Therefore it would behoove the FED not to crash THEIR note, as the FRN is their “dollar” not OURS.

              But frankly I see no danger in the FED buying US bonds with Federal Reserve Notes. WE have granted them a banking franchise and WE can terminate it too.

              It would be a good idea I think to have a real financial guru consider this “trial balloon”; like zero hedge.

              Mal any thoughts as a CPA?

            • they already did…

            • Only one detail you’re leaving out, DK. The Fed is not allowed to carry any debt in its books. NONE. It is against the law. Accoring to the Constitution, the U.S. Treasury is obligated to buy back ALL of the Fed’s debt. All of it. Meaning all of this debt monetization (The Fed buying U.S. treasuries) will ultimately fall on us taxpayers to pay off.
              Yes, we are all slaves. And our kids and our grandkids and so on…

        • Why are you storing diesel eric?

          • maybe his car/truck/generator runs on it?

            • Farm tractors???

          • I have a diesel truck and parents have a diesel and car as well. onlything a chainsaw would come in handy chopping wood up or cutting something down. of course at least 30-40 gallons min of gas. but yea most of my stuff runs on diesel. no other reason that that. someone commented below about potatoes, that is a great idea, get fuel from that from terry w reed. also potatoes are good in potassium and are filling and grow about anywhere. good call on the potatoes. I got thousands and thousands of rounds of ammo and at least over 2000 rounds of 12 guage. need a water filter and good on propane and some silver. so have lots of stuff to barter if needed. love this site and alayws read this daily.

            • You need more than a water filter. You need a year’s supply of water. We have 1500 gallons of water in our basement. I bought one gallon water jugs, cinder blocks, and plywood.

            • eric, check out the Filtron filter being manufactured in Nicaragua. Their water systems suck, and this was developed so that you could put any water in it and come out with pure water, no bacteria. My only problem right now is figuring out how to get one transported up here. (Dealerships want orders of 50 minimum) But my brother is living there and says he has it figured out. I guess I’ll know for sure when one shows up on my doorstep.

          • Because he is smarter than you.

        • Eric, Why diesel? How long will 110 gallons last? Maybe you should look at an alternative fuel.
          Check me out at
          In the spring I’ll be harvesting potatoes, hopefully around 1000 lbs, mix with malt, do the starch breakdown thing and refine to fuel grade ethanol, I can distill to 94/95%, just ordered a special adsorbent mole sieve material this morning, 25 lbs of it and I will be designing a copper container for the mole sieve to dehydrate to I’m hoping 99% with 98% recovery of what I put in. That will my next item to offer my fellow preppers…and the distiller works for distilling water and to get antiseptic grade ethanol as well. I’ll be permitted to run legally by springtime, free application, free permit (for a small fuel purpose).
          Keep the diesel also. I know diesel and ethanol mix well.
          and will get you more runtime from the diesel engine.

          I remember when we had our last two home purchases. We had lenders wanting to give us 120% of the home value as a loan…thankfully I listen to the little voice in my head and we took the older fashioned way, put money down and took a 15 year loan. I’m ok as long as I’m working. We will see if that works out. I’m a design engineer in consulting engineering, it is periodicicall cyclic. which translates to, getting laid off every number of years. I’m managing so far but have branched out into my side business doing the LNL PROTEKT LLC. It is slow taking off but currently have 3 units on order, I’m doing it whenever I’m not owrking the standard 40. And I’m happy as I know I’m giving the people who are the most oriented to survive a needed tool at a reasonable price. I’m not ever going to get rich doing this but I’m happier doing it. Makes sense to me.

          Oh, Mac, did you still want to give away one of my units on this website? I’m ready to rock on building another small 6 liter one, I’m building one now. I can just as easily build two at the same time. I’ll split the cost with you.

          Mac was my first customer. Thank you Mac for encouraging me to build more, I was just having fun, you made me think about helpin others!


          • You’re in for trouble if you try to run a diesel engine on an alcohol and petroleum diesel mix. They do NOT mix well at all. Separation is almost immediate. Even if they did, you would get less power per unit volume, if indeed the engine runs at all.

            Even modest amounts of alcohol mixed into a petroleum fuel can also lead to permanent corrosion damage to the extremely precise steel parts in the pump and injectors of a diesel.

            Diesel injection pumps have extremely tightly fitted steel parts, which depend on the lubricity of the fuel to keep them from seizing up. Alcohol has zero lubricity. The probable result is left as an exercise for the student.

            The ONLY technology that can use alcohol in concert with petroleum diesel is simultaneous alky/water injection, which has been around since before WW2. This requires two completely separate injection systems, and if it had any real value you’d see it on every CAT, Cummins, or John Deere in existence, especially with the recent pressure from government mandates. You don’t.

            There IS a use for alcohol in diesels, and that’s in the manufacture of “biodiesel” from used cooking fats. A neighbour of mine does this, using alcohol he distills himself, (or so he claims).

            • hey good point on that. that does make sense. sometimes we forget the small things and others pick up on it. thats why I like different peoples perspectives on here.

            • I’ll try mixing the diesel with ethanol this weekend and post the results, maybe I was premature in stating they mix well. I know gasoline and diesel mix and once permitted I’ll be adding 5% gas to my ethanol to make it non-consumable as a beverage. Since I cannot legally distill without a permit, I’ll have to use everclear as a test medium.
              Old Coach, thanks for your input, I am relatively new to alternative fuel sources and what can and cannot be done.
              I do know that the products I’m making are superior to anything else on the net for FUEL grade ethanol, 100% copper, TIG/GTAW welded, my name goes on every one, they are numbered, no records are kept as to who they go to, and my design intent is for legal fuel production, what people do with them is their own business. Yes they are capable of multi-purpose use, water distillation is one, making “shine” another, but peeps who just want to make shine do not need to go to this level of production.
              Any other product out there that I have seen is a combination of stainless steel and copper or pure stainless steel. Copper has the property of trapping contaminents and keeping them out of the final product. I’m not claiming mine trap all contaminents, as I witnessed some fusel oils from production when some folks did this while posted overseas. Easily spotted and removed.
              I’ll admit, I do not know all there is to know about this subject and in converting engines to run on pure or as puer as possible ethanol that we may produce. I’m willing to learn and will attempt an old generator conversion this winter, as well as a small tiller. I’ll post the results when done. And when legally permitted, I’ll video my first production runs, and when proven, show a small engine running on it.
              What I do know is design and building of like facility’s as I’ve worked in Refinery design of all types, petrochemical design of all types, Pharmaceutical plant design and BioPharm design…from the purest water possible, WFI (water for injection) all the way through the spectrum to the nastiest chemicals we are capable of making, in pressures from vaccuum to 35 thousand PSI.
              My units are sound, I’m an honest hard working guy. I do 40+ hours in my day job, then build these units in my home time, all the while catering to my wife and daughter.
              So, please continue to correct me when I state in error. I often think type before I think and do not know all there is. I am capable learning from others and will take the information and put it to good use. My intent is to help people like myself, prepare for what lies ahead. Which in my opinion, is war, what type I don’t know, but ther are only a few things of value during the coming strife, food, water, medicine, alcohol, tobacco and the ability to protect all the forementioned. The reason I don’t mention gold and silver as that will be worth something at first and may be the only longterm holder of value. if we experience recovery. So hold onto the AG and AU. But, we can’t eat it, can’t use it as medicine or an antiseptic. For me I’m focusing on what is needed to survive and what I can use as a barter item, food, fuel, all the consumable items we will need, what I cannot make myself, I’ll trade with people who grow wheat, or oats. I have certain skills due to how I was raised and my work history. Other folks have skills I do not.
              I apologise for stating a fact I’m now not sure of. Maybe they did not put whiskey in old Diesel submarines to give them a lift, heck, I was not there…


            • I stated gasoline and diesel mix well, I meant gas and ethanol mix.


        • ANON: I agree that the monetization of debt may be the death of US all, but deficits are a function of overspending and lack of income.

          Nationally, lack of income is evidenced by our balance of trade deficits ($700 billion last year), tax loopholes for the largest corporations ( many hundreds of billions of dollars), and “incentives” for hydrocarbon investors and producers which last year amounted to One Trillion Dollars.

          It would not be difficult to balance the budget if the American taxpayers were not subsiding the Chinese ($300 billion), Mexicans ($100 billion trade and $300 billion for the Mexican Poverty American Jobs and Housing Program), Corporate America, Big Pharma and Big Oil and Big Coal.

          Overspending I would submit is a function of an annual $700 billion Defense Budget and $1.2 trillion over the past ten years in additional, separate, defense spending for wars of crony capitalism.

      2. WOW, and with a house to sell I keep telling my MIL to sell now or continue to lose her nest egg.

      3. You know, articles like this crack me up. While I am in complete agreement with the facts in the read above, many homes are not selling not because of a lack of buyers, but because banks will not make reasonable deals on homes in a short-sale or foreclosure position! I have been trying to buy a home for over 8 months, made reasonable offers on several homes…only to have the bank shoot down the offer bceause it was .85 or better on the dollar. Many of these homes are in distress and need work – banks don’t care and refuse to deal. IMO these bankers derserve to be stoned in ever public square in the nation!

        • what the banks deserve , , , is to choke on each and every one of them

          • Folks, keep your powder dry. It just gets worse (for the banks and housing prices) from here (which means better prices for you down the line).

        • I have experienced the same thing. A house was listed at $175k, I bid on it because it was a great deal. The bank said no since the “appraisal” came back at $220k. I have had this happen several times. The banks are trying to squeeze all they can out of a market that doesn’t really support squeezing.

          I think I might actually be getting close to ownership of a home after 6 months now. 6 months!

        • I have been dealing with the same thing you and Jack are. It’s been almost a year. You would think with the houses ready to endure another winter being un-lived in they would deal. I started just looking at property this last month. I can build myself cheaper than they are willing to sell closed property.

        • Because those homes are better to be occupied than empty?? just ask the insurance companies—unoccupied homes deteriorate and are easily vandalized.

          Duh..on the banks fault.

        • Bank-owned RE would be a glut on the market, but they don’t sell any at the real market price because they are carrying the property on their books at the inflated valuation they got when they issued the liar loan.

          If they sell at real market price, they have to recognize a big loss on their books, and that makes their P&L statement look bad. If the “Mark to Market” FASB rule that was put in place after the Enron debacle were still in force, they’d be bankrupt already, but the current “government” rescinded the rule so they can keep on lying to their shareholders. The clear plan is wait for the Fed to inflate the currency to the point where they can get “book value” out of these millstones.

          Yes, for some of what they did they richly deserve stoning, but at the beginning they were forced almost at gunpoint to make those bad loans, by Congress and by the Clinton administration. To Bush’s discredit, he and the Republican Congresses he had did nothing about it.

          We are so screwed. Keep prepping!

          • Your right, but for me I can’t even get an offer at 20% of the 2007 value. Considering all 3 of my residential properties are direct water front it really stinks.

            As I’ve said in the past we are heading back to cash pricing on homes. I’m talking 1968 pricing, $8,000 to $30,000. The only thing I can see that would save America is a complete public / private bankruptcy.

            You can call it systemic financial collapse or bankruptcy, but the results would free the citizenry and I think that may be a good thing.

            • PatriotOne, if you are right about the price of housing and if silver goes to $500 an ounce, it will take 16 to 60 silver eagles to buy a house. That will put me in a buying mood. When that happens I’ll be interested in buying all 3 of your waterfront properties.

        • Try being in the sellers’ shoes on these… Ugh! LOL We had our house up for short sale — pristine condition, custom paint, tile, carpet & kitchen, beautiful home. We had it listed at the average price in the neighborhood…we had buyers offer ABOVE the asking price because the house was so beautiful and the bank (Bank of America) REFUSED the offers because, in the words of the bank representative, “We feel that you and your husband can afford to make the mortgage payment.” This man had in front of him the financial proof that we had lost more than a quarter of our income since we’d purchased our home due to paycuts at my husband’s job. Once it got to the point that we kept losing more income and had to choose between the mortgage and food for our kids, we just stopped paying and moved out. It was against every ethical bone in our body to foreclose on our house…but we tried EVERYTHING to work with the bank and they just slapped us in the face. I am sorry for your difficulties in purchasing a home, and I sincerely hope one works out for you soon.

        • Banks don’t want to lose tens of thousands of dollars on every bad mortgage. They’d go under or need another bailout.

          • This is something I don’t understand.

            If a buyer had taken out a mortgage with less than 20% down wasn’t Private Mortgage Insurance required.

            If so wouldn’t the insurance pay the lender in the event that the buyer defaulted. If so the lender would lose no money at all.

            Have I got this wrong or have we all forgotten about the insurance.

      4. Article: “The banks will never recover this money.”

        The banks already have, its called the “bailout”. Banks may lose on a particular house, but over all they actually make money due to the way the banks are “allowed” to calculate their loses and then push them on to the taxpayer.

        As for never recoverying, that is correct.

        This country is being imploded, intentionally, and on a timetable.

        As for a solution, it starts with ackowledging what the problem actually is:

        This country has been invaded and taken over by the international bankers, who then corrupted every aspect of our government.

        The US Federal Government is NOT an American gov’t. It is an Enemy Force Of Occupation that has camouflaged its overthrow of the US Gov’t.

        As such, the USA is not “America The Free”, it is actually the largest POW Camp in the world and we are all prisoners and potential disrupters, hence the Dep’t Of Homeland Security (which is actually Homeland Gestapo) has labeled Americans who still think and act like this is the USA and “resist” the occupation as…….. “terrorists”.

        Since we ARE technically POW’s, then the Law Of War and the Geneva Convention should apply, and the principles for ALL POW’S to observe is:

        It is the Duty of all POW’s to RESIST our captors by every means possible.

        To disrupt their designs and actions by any and all means.

        To REFUSE to cooperate in any way.

        To Refuse any/all special treatment.

        To provide no information expect name, rank, serial number (SS #)

        To create as much difficulty as possible to cause the greatest use of personnel and assests
        so as to reduce their capacity to wage warfare elsewhere on us.


        It is our duty to “defend our country against ALL enemies, both foreign and domestic”, and clearly, the enemy of greatest destruction against the US, are the domestic ones.

        It is time for Americans to recognize that the USA HAS been overthrown by the International Bankers, aided and abetted by corporations, corrupt politicians and a judicial system that has been wholly bought-off.

        We are not fighting to correct an American Gov’t, We are fighting to eliminate this Enemy called the Federal Government, and PUT an AMERICAN Government Back in power!

        JD – US Marines – Fighting To Restore An American Gov’t.

        • Well said, Bravo.

        • JD.. i hear talk of a massive march on d.c on 11-11-11 with many many vets . their telling them tptb.. to get out any thoughts on this?? thanks johnnyg semper fi bro

        • OOH RAH…

          we need to organize, network and find a frickin leader..any full birds out there?

          the cops are the MERCENARY force of the intl bankster/zionists..

          we must find the marines who wear badges to atack from the inside

          • You hit the nail on the head. I keep saying we just need a General or a damn good Colonel and this mess could be over with.

          • Recruit 4-Star General Colin Powell (retired).

        • btw, Im in e.nc, where are you?

          we must continue to educate family and friends…

          we must remember how we were/are willing to fight to the death to defend our home/country.

          When are we going to do something?…HIPPY chants and protests haven’t worked for the last 50yrs..

          the elite/bankster/zionists have planned and accept protests as a ‘business expense’..

          we must either swing the police into understanding wtf is happening or realize they are the ENEMY and the face of tyranny…then deal with them accordingly

          my email is jbunch_1975—yahoo acct..

        • “To provide no information expect name, rank, serial number (SS #)”

          Something fishy about that. Something not quite right about your posts. I’m starting to think you are not who you project yourself to be.

          Somebody said in an earlier thread you were posing as someone else who posts here. I don’t know if that’s the case, but I’m beginning to sense a major flaw in your script. Anyone else see it?

          Who are you, really? You seem a little too perfect playing the role. Just so you know, I’m not buying what you are selling.

          Hey US Marine are you the Colonel Frank Fitts type?

          • yea, that was fishy like lure some information or something. i didnt pick up on that until you said that. it reminds me about 10 years ago someone selling a skid loader on ebay that was worth 25,000 eazy and wanted 5,000 bank wired. then the guy would not meet us for pickup etc etc. you never know these days. good point

          • EA: No US Marine is not Durango Kidd. As far as “no information except name, rank and serial number” that is the direction that the military gives its members in the event of their capture under the Geneva Convention Articles of War and the UCMJ.

            So it lends credence that he is military. If you had been military you would know that.

            The 9th Circut Court has stated that an individual is only required to give his or her correct name upon detention by a police officer.

        • I salute you sir! Finally, someone else who REALLY gets it. The American Government has been usurped! It started with The Act of 1871 and proceeded on from there.



          There you will find more information to cement your “theories” and see them as fact, though, I don’t think you need any help.

        • I’m just a common ordinary ex-Army Grunt, but invite me to the dance. I’ll come with several handguns, a couple of ARs, and my own handloaded ammo and plenty of it.

          I am an Oathkeeper.

          And that Oath was to the Constitution.

      5. People with a high mortgage are so screwed!
        If you were planning to downsize to fund a retirement,that plan is now out the window unless you stay in the same area or move to an area with lower prices(rural midwest small town).
        The standard of living for us is going down. Get used to it and plan accordingly!God Bless, James

        • I happen to live in a “rural midwest small town” and I can assure you my standard of living is great! Granted, there isn’t much of a consumerism mind-set if that is included in your standard of living equation.

          Folks around here know what a hard days work is and generally are as self-sufficient as possible. Wood heat (some have natural gas to supplement) is common, people who hunt butcher the animal for meat, grow most of their own food, have root cellars, can, smoke and dehadrate, etc.

          And talk about gun ownership! I don’t know a single household that doesn’t have multiple guns for various purposes with plenty of ammo for each and everyone knows how to use them. Keeping the golden horde out if SHTF around these parts would probably be less of an issue than in any city.

          I highly recommend small towns like mine as they are a haven for prepers. Since this way of living is the norm and not looked upon with suspicion there is little fear of others looting your place (you may run the risk of a neighbor not returning a tool from time to time though!).

          • I agree 100% with what you say!
            10 years ago I bought our rural retreat and have been preparing as best I can to be as self sustaining as possible. You are correct that people in rural areas are well armed and serious crime around here is a non issue. What idiot would try a breakin when they know ,or should, that chances are good that they would get thier butt shot off.
            People around here garden and can extensively and either have cows,pigs or chickens for eggs and meat.
            We are at the top of chain for food production and if/when it hits the fan a barter system will rapidly form.
            People here don’t care about fancy clothes,sports cars,etc but there are some real nice pickup trucks.
            Being a past city guy, I am very happy leading a simple lifestyle and enjoying the 4 eggs a day I get from my 5 Rhode island red chickens. You can not believehow good a homegrown egg is! God Bless,James

      6. The future isn’t looking good at all for the ‘home team’. Bye bye Ms. American Pie …. but we do live in interesting times.

      7. Having been in same house for 7 years, it is still holding it’s value as of the time of purchase. How long will that last? We own a condo that we tried to sell for almost a year. We received zero offers and had the property priced 15% below all other units for sale. The unit has not been updated but it is in great condition, especially for the asking price at the time. We have since rented the property and are grateful to have this outflow turned into a positive. Not sure what to expect next from the criminals running the show, however, from where I sit we had better be prepared for an economy that is going down in flames. The home we live in is being secured from zombie attacks.

      8. Question for ya’ll:

        I’ve saved up a chunk of cash and would like to buy another house outside of southern CA for “just in case.” But, I don’t want to buy too soon or pay too much.

        When might be a good time for me to purchase another property? Next year? In two years? Five years?

        What do you guys think?

        • Don’t buy a house. Buy land. Farm land. Hunting land.

          Or take your money & buy gold & silver.

          • Mr B: I agree, you can always build later on or use a camper to hunker down. If anyone wants to live closer to a town/city, get a cheap deal on a house that a bank or find someone willing to drop the price, make sure it’s in livable cond. I’d find one on the outskirts of town not in an HOA so you can grow food, have clothes line, chickens, etc.

            • Can’t wait till most of USA resembles a EOTW movie and some asshat president of a HOA tries to enforce the rules against clothslines and such.

        • Buy gold & silver today. Watch prices of farmland with a home very carefully. (There are some very nice places in Nebraska, South Dakota & Northwest KS) I would look for location near stands of oak and riverbottom, (be high enough to avoid flood) windmill powered pump and distance from major metro area. When prices collapse, buy your oasis and protect it.



          I would leave So. Cal. immediately if you are there. When SHTF you will be captured in an area with very few routes of escape and millions of mentally ill, angry creeps.

          • Been buying Au and Ag. And lead.

            Looks like the thing to do is wait awhile, and then buy arable farmland with good water supply, like you guys say. But not for now, I suppose…

            Thanks for chiming in on this subject, I do appreciate it.

            • Scott, if you wait too long, all the good land will be gobbled up. Just a thought.

            • Scott: Buy. Locate the property you want now.

              Buy after Israel pops Iran next year. Buy in Prescott Arizona above 5,000 feet.

        • Scott,
          Wait at least a couple of years, possibly more. You’ll see the bottom when we get close to it. Then, instead of buying a house, buy a house on some acreage or buy acreage and build a house. Farmland that is capable of producing food should be a good hedge against inflation, and SHTF.

        • If you’re looking to buy a second home do it immediately. There’s a good chance that what’s going on in Europe will cause a world-wide banking collapse or much worse. It could happen within the next 30 days for all we know.

      9. Homes in my neighborhood are down $150,000 to $200,000. I’d venture a guess that 80% of them are underwater. And you sure can’t sell it, that’s for sure.

        I’d like to personally thank the US government & bleeding heart liberals for this mess. Thank you to Chris Dodd & Barney Frank for their role. For creating the sub prime program. For telling the greedy banks that they will back the “destined to fail” mortgages.

        They are destroying our wealth. Through deliberate inflationary policies, billions of useless regulations and programs like this that meddle with the private market.

        • What kind of people would vote Barney Frank in office?

          • All of those that don’t want to leave their friend’s behind….

            • POA,LMAO!

          • complete dipshits

          • As a native Bostonian, and a seventh or eight generation New Englander, I can answer that. His district is chock-a-block full with outsiders that came to Boston for college, and never left. These people were filtered by the college admissions process to assure the highest possible concentration of leftist perverts possible. It’s a disgusting spectacle. Selfish, arrogant, and immoral, the lot of ’em.

            (I should hasten to add that I now consider myself a refugee, just as much so as the Hungarians I knew who fled their homeland on 1956, or the Cubans and Venezuelans in Florida. My old Dad left in 1973 – it was already bad then. I hung in until 1977. That was my first “bug-out”. Been getting farther from cities ever since. These days I won’t even drive through Massachusetts on my way to Maine.)

        • Don’t forget to thank the first black president Clinton..hell, everybody deserves a home..whether they have a job…or not!!!

      10. When I work the the real estate lending market we called them ninja loans.
        We wrote soooo many loans that we knew could never be paid back.
        Fanny and Freddy would OK them. The dumbs asses buyer would sigh and commit. They knew they could not afford it but they were out of the trailer park and into a McMansion. I would bet a pile of Federal debt coupons that these same people will get to keep the house they can’t afford and the tax payer will take the hit on a modified mortgage note.

        • Well all of the millions that James Johnson and Franklin Raines got should surely be able to offset some of those bad mortgages.

          I think DK has it right.

          OWTFH[(c)2011, Durango Kidd]

          • OWTFH! [(c)2011, Durango Kidd]

            …as I slowly drag my whetstone across the edge of the guillotine.

      11. Understand this fact.. WE ARE ALL RENTERS!!!!!!!!!!!

        The banks AND govt own it all!!






        • Realist: NOT TRUE!!!

          Our government of CBTs (criminal bastard thieves, some call them politicians) use a thing commonly termed as word magic. The deal is that you redefine a common term to mean something totally different in legal terms than it does in common language.

          For instance, they have redefined the word “understand” which essentially means to “comprehend” in common language to mean “to stand under the authority”. So when a cop asks you if you understand what he means, if you say yes, you have just verbally contracted to stand under his authority. He tricked you into saying you would submit. Then, if you don’t you are clubbed for disobeying.

          The key to not paying your “rent” (taxes) to the king is that you must own your property. The problem is, the property you own is commercial property. Its classified as “residential property” but if you look in the definitions, “residential property” and “private property” are listed under the commercial class.

          What you must do is have your land re-classified as “private land”. This, then, removes the tax burden. Many times they won’t go quietly, however, sometimes they do.

          Same with vehicles and driving. Private vehicles require no license or registration. However, you didn’t realize that by registering your vehicle you are then required to license it and you to operate it. You’re turning it into a commerical vehicle. Word magic. The CBTs deserve only one thing:

          OWTFH! [(c) 2011 Durango Kidd]

          Scythe stone in hand and ready, sir!

      12. “The banks will never recover this money.”

        Mac, you said that as if the banks put up money they stand to lose. All they did was secure ownership of the property for the banks through fraud.

        The banks have put in nothing, and in the end will get nothing out. When the people realize what has been done they will take the property back from the banks and move on in.

        Adverse possession is assured, likely without a time requirement, when the opponent claiming to own it acquired the property through fraud and is unable to work it and maintain it.

        That’s when things will really get fun…

      13. 🙁
        everyday… sad sad sad… after yesterdays near miss, it is juts a matter tof time before an asteroid really does hit, or solar flares kill us, or Isreal nukes Iran and starts WWIII, or earthquakes and tornaodes in Oklahoma kill us, or the CIA/NAS/FBI starts some fake crap that may lead to reall crap… it is all so sad. It makes me sad:( I used to be so happy, life was so good, the futre was birght, the world loved The Ameican life style, we got on planes using someone elses ticket, there was no crazy war on drugs, no TSA, no ATF supplying the Mexicans gangs with guns….. it just goes on and on and on…

        My brains on the wall, soon. This is just no fun anymore.

        Wouldnt it be funny if one day Mac posted something about Regis leaving, or something like that?… just for comic relief?

        • Not so fast. First please realize that you are witnessing the greatest epochal moment in history with the exception of the crucifiction. Your writings, your thoughts and your memories will be treasures to historical researchers in the future.

          Also, we are seeing the death of consumerism, narcissism, hedonism and self pity. Oh sure, there is plenty of the aforementioned right now but as the SHTF I believe we will not only be shocked by the violence and inhumanity of man but we will also be shocked by the strength of family, the love of our fellow man and the selflessness of people that we never would have suspected of being thoughtful.

          I do believe that by next spring when we are planting gardens and trying to keeps baby chicks alive you will receive offers of help that will blow your mind. I know that I am going to do everything in my power to ensure that honesty, hard work, fairness and compassion are more than just words. I insist that they become recognized as standard American values.

          Hang in there. We’ll be there for you.

          • I don’t know what you’re smoking or where you live…but either hand me the joint, or send a uhaul.

            • ROFLMAO ! ! !

            • JJ, He’s my neighbour.

              POA, you said it far better than I did the other day. This well articulated warning with benefits is EXACTLY what I see coming.

      14. But, it’s not just the banks. Most people HAD good jobs when they bought their houses. Jobs closed up and moved to Mexico, can’t pay the mortgage. I’ve seen entire towns where the people all worked at a local factory, now the streets are lined with For Sale signs. No one will buy in those towns because there’s no work. Dominoes falling..

        • It was that giant sucking sound of NAFTA.

          Thank Bill Clinton and Newt Gingrich. (left/right difference, bullshit!)

          • I love it when people blame Bush. Clinton started this whole mess with NAFTA and his “I did not have sexual relations with that woman.” If he had taken care of Hillary, she might not be such a thorn in our side today.

            • Would YOU want to screw Hillary??!!

            • Jim, NAFTA was a Reagan era thing. Look it up. I remember him talking about it. I love the idea of Reagan in that respect, he screwed us over. Just another puppet, he was. Believe me, I’m no Clinton supporter or any other democrap but it was Reagan that did the NAFTA 2step for the country. …and we believed it.

            • I agree NetRanger. WE went along with Reagan because WE were fighting communism so unleashing unfettered capitalism wasn’t a bad idea if it could destroy the Soviet Union.

              It did.

              Unfortunately, the GB’s took advantage of the opening and gave US NAFTA, GATT, and the WTO, while Americans were busy spending the “peace dividend”.

              Then Traitor Bush the First promised to make the CCP millionaires and the financial elite in China if they would accept capitalism.

              They did.

              After 50 million dead in the Cultural Revolution that decision was a no-brainer, so he ordered the MIC to start building components in China.

              Now We have counterfeit hardware on OUR planes.

              Clinton signed NAFTA and Traitor Bush the Second allowed 42,400 factories and 60 million US jobs move offshore, while he made war against terrorists and WMD’s when he should have been fighting the Mossad.

              The last four administrations have been globalists in nature. Patriots must run for office and We must elect Patriots to office wherever WE can find them.

              Its that or lock n load.

      15. there are some folks caught up in this housing mess that i really feel for..however there is far greater population of homebuyers that should have stayed in the trailer park or bought what they could afford. if there is a lesson to be learned it is to live within your harvest (means). sadly, traveling all over this country i see homes that are empty, falling into disrepair, abandoned, rotting away because someone came upon hard times in their life…and did not want or refused to do the hard thing.

        • I wholeheartedly agree with you. There are SOME people who got the royal screw in the housing mess. On the other hand, there are exponentially more people who took on a house they could just barely afford or couldn’t afford at all.
          The issue I have often seen is that too many americans overextended themselves financially, didn’t save a dime and assumed they would ALWAYS have lots of money coming in (job security is a myth if you work for someone other than yourself!). Then, when they lost their job and couldn’t find another one, they lost everything.

          Living within ones means is sound advice and unfortunately too many have learned too late.

        • the lesson to be learned is that the masses can be easily deluded and defrauded.

          OTOH, the lesson for the banks to be taught is that the profits from such scams will be taken away by pissed off people when they have finally had enough.

      16. Looking to buy rural land now, but I’d hate to have prices drop another 25%…

        • it may take several years, but they will drop another 25% from here… The only problem you’ll face when they finally do reach that level is the interest rate on the mortgage (unless you’re paying cash).

        • Lease with an option to purchase. If the price drops, renegotiate the purchase price.

          If the price rises, you are locked into the lower price.

      17. Strategic Default!!!

        • I’ve certainly thought about it, that’s for sure.

          Be careful. Some states have laws that allow banks to go after other assets if you do this.

          • I hear ya…….but it makes so sense paying on a debt once you are 50k, 75k, 100k or more underwater…….do what the banks do…..make a business decsion.

            • I agree drillerman. Believe me, I think about it almost daily. There is a company out there who will help you though the process, can’t remember the name of them though.

          • If you leave your assets where the banks can find them, you deserve what you get.

      18. I resisted the urging of all my friends to buy a new home when the market was hot. Instead, I paid cash for a used mobile home and waited. Now I am watching the foreclosures for a property that meets all my criteria now that I can pay cash.

        Romans 13:8 Proverbs 22:7

        • Shoulda…

          DID!!! You’re a fine American. Hope you’ve managed to raise some little ones that will carry on your fine tradition. If people would do more like you did, well, it would be more like the old America and I could do more shooting and less preaching.

      19. The MSM and protesters blame the banks. I have issues with some of the bigger banks but, the government created the bubble and ensuing destruction of the real estate industry with the Community Re-invesment Act. Jimmy Carter got it started, Bill Clinton gave it legal teeth and George W. Bush gave it 4.5 trillion bucks. The feds required banks to give mortgages to unqualified buyers, uncluding illegal aliens. Bush was told by his handlers that 60% of home owners vote republican. Being as big a moron as Carter he thought he could buy votes. The result is history. They all have to go.

        • You are drawing a distinction between the banks and the government when they are one and the same criminal enterprise. If one goes, they both go. The banksters are the only target within reach to kill, just most people are not aware of that yet.

        • Actually the Bush administration itself did not get too involved. Armando Falcon of the OFHEO had tried to reign in Fannie and Freddie but Franklin Raines (and his predecessor) always managed to get slimeballs like Barney Frank & Chris Dodd to weaken every bit of legislation designed to make the GSEs have the same capital reserve requirements as the banks or to provide greater transparency or to follow GAAP.

          We do need to hold the people that created the mess accountable. It is absolutely mandatory that we learn who was actually hosing us and who was trying to do the right thing. Once we ascertain the truly guilty (and it is damned obvious Frank, Dodd, Raines and Johnson are the biggest crooks) then we need a quick, fair trial and then:

          OWTFH![(c)2011, Durango Kidd]

      20. In our neighborhood, the majority of houses are either vacant or for sale. Some of the “for sale” signs are so old that they are blackened and bent with age; yet, the taxman still wants his share and more. We voted Tuesday, because the county and the state wanted a sales tax increase of 2%. When are they going to live within their means and leave us something to live on? All of the county vehicles are new and expensive, while the citizens, like myself, drive an older or cheaper vehicle. Along with the taxman, the insurance people still want more for “homeowners” insurance, even though the value of the home is underwater.

        • The only solution to stop this “homeowners” insurance scam is to payoff your mortgage and cancel your house insurance. Save 1000-1500 dollarz per year that way. I have done so since 1992. (add it all up). The flipside is you must assume your own risk. (so what)

          • I remember the old man pitching a bitch fit one year. He got the insurance bill for the house and it was damn near $50. He was so pissed, LOL

        • Yes, our homeowners increased $200 last year–we accredited it to the floods in Tn and Ky..and across the nation.

      21. The big question is at what point will everyone say, “F&*k this, we bailed them (Big Banks and derivative gamblers) out more than once and got nothing, now we owe 4x (with interest)more than our house is worth, I can pay my mortgage but why should I, they are NOT too big to fail”

        • A lot of people are doing just that……Once you reach a certain threshold of being underwater, just give the keys back……makes no sense keeping the property especially, if you bought within the last 5-7 years.

        • any time now…..I’ve paid off my mortgages thank God, so any time now I’m sure there will be a huge govt. bail out of those people who signed loan documents but clearly didn’t know what they were committing or agreeing too.

      22. When its said home prices may slide 50% to 75% more please take into account different regions and such of the country. Here in Central CA we have already enjoyed a 70% middle to low home values and 50% in middle to high. The truly high end are even down 20 to 30%. I think some places in the country haven’t “enjoyed” that yet, and likely will.

        Rental property = New Retirement Opportunity! If “SHTF” doesn’t happen I’ll be enjoy the rents….if it does happen my tenants better have skills I need.

      23. Just read this on MSN…

        Home Prices Down in 75% of US Markets


      24. I’ve had 3 tenants. All 3 paid late, and either had to be evicted or otherwise kicked out.The homes were wrecked and the deposits dont cover the damages because renters don’t have the money for a proper deposit. Some folks get lucky, but think twice before exposing yourself to the horde of deadbeats.

        • I’ve been lucky; but then I supervised a good number of people and could pick from the best to rent my properties. It can be hard; and sadly there a lot of people out there to take advantage. There are good one’s though.

        • Been there, done that. Used to rent out “affordable housing”. For these animals eviction several times a year is a way of life. The state activly helps them rip you off.

          In OH courts, a landlord has basically no rights. The best you can do is evict, which only costs. You can sue in small claims court for damages, but wish in one hand…

          Couldn’t get away from that market fast enough.

      25. With all the money printing going on and it finally works its way down to Joe sixpack prices of everything could double, triple or more. Then those underwater homes will make money faster than anyone could work & save. The only thing is you would have to keep your job, & keep making payments till it all blows over. Then maybe after we all get raises due to cost of living adjustments anyone still hanging onto their assets can pay off their debt with cheap-ass dollars.



      27. Inflation will save home values..eventually, but not the markets any time soon. Get ready for America to become more and more a renter nation. Bankers are not stupid or evil, but simply profit motivated. They can make more money with less risk issuing credit cards (rates are not fixed, the rate cap is gone, and risk is spread over more loans), shorter term business loans ,…. Think about it, why loan out hundreds of thousands of dollars at 3% or 4% before service cost and taxes are removed – and still risk borrower default! Even worse, why lock in at 3% when inflation could rapidly reach the double digits! The only way banks will open their pockets for home loans is if the Govt takes the risk out and that type of Govt evil has already damaged our country. Don’t blame the bankers, blame whom we elected!

      28. I waited all most two year to refi my home.My saving is around $200 .I have a V.A. home loan and it took longer to do.I Am happy to have a home.The Little bit of money has been used to prep up and help out my mom and dad,who live on just ssi.I cry a lot and that hard for a fifty year old man to omit. I Try to hold on and with my small amount of friend’s,Have hope.I have been helped by this site.To be a bit braver,stronger,Have idea’s to better myself for my family and friend’s.

      29. None of you OWN anything, It owns you! And that which you think you own… you actually are just a LESSEE of it , a renter… nothing more… stop paying your taxes and see what happens!

      30. I recall hearing that all of these “Defaulted on Loans” are backed up through government guarantees. If this is the case, the banks get their money (face value of the loan), albeit freshly printed money.
        Where would they get the incentive to sell quickly if this were the case?

        Mac, is there any truth to this?

      31. Re comment above on Magic, a good definition:

        “Magic is not knowing how the trick is done.”

        I am financially in the black because I sold my city home in 2007. Back in 2006 It hit me like a ton of bricks… that it was all a mirage, that this nation no longer produced anything besides weapons, scams, and paper money. Now I am living with relations who listened to me years ago, bought 20 acres, in the sticks… and now needed my cash to pay their small mortgage..

        Federal Taxes fund the School of the Americas- which teaches repressive and covert methods to police forces around the world, see soawatch.org … at my age, having a clean conscience is worth more to me than the false security provided by paying Federal Tribute – protection money. Google “Hopi Elders prophecy”: – End of Rant.

        “You have been telling people that this is the Eleventh Hour, now you must go back and tell the people that this is the Hour. And there are things to be considered. . . .

        Where are you living?
        What are you doing?
        What are your relationships?
        Are you in right relation?
        Where is your water?

        Know your garden.
        It is time to speak your truth.
        Create your community.
        Be good to each other.
        And do not look outside yourself for your leader.”


      32. Note: above was quote from Hopi Elder’sd

        Reply to Ninaorket:
        Yes, We do not own the earth, the earth owns us.

        and Google the word “userfruct”, you may find the definition thought provoking

      33. I figure in about a year, “escape from New York”, will be considered a documentary.
        We are renting and live in a town of 25K but have lots of smaller towns around us and are looking to buy a small farm or house there. Life in Nebraska sucks but its safer here than in lots of other places. Good luck everyone

        • It sounds that you have your priorities a bit messed up. Are you warm, dry, food on the table,etc? If so, you are ahead of millions of people who would trade places with you in a heartbeat!
          Wants and needs are the two things you have to come to grips with.
          I came from a big city with all the fancy things to do ie,Pro sports teams. malls,theatre, restaurants,etc.
          Do I miss them? No.That stuff is just a means to waste dollars and divert your attention from the important things in life. I am getting great pleasure from my garden, chickens, etc and the best place to be is at home with my wife.
          With what is probably to come, get your mind right and count your blessings instead of the marketing hype and the keep up with Jones trash on TV. Simplify and enjoy life. That will be the best thing you can do. God bless, James

      34. Swore I posted in this one….
        Guess when the program told me that I’d already posted the program deleted what I said.Never mind.probably too long and wandering a comment anyway.
        Best to All
        hope you all can stay warm this winter!

      35. The banks are given the money to help, qualified people, refinance, but instead of processing the loans, the banks take the money; place funds in off-shore banks; and earn interest… which they pocket.
        There is no money in helping us surfs. They take your records, for which they probably do not have the original copies of the loan, and make copies of your information for their records. In applying for these loans, the customer is making it easier for the banks to copy and change your information, for some future manipulations.

      36. Mortgage Jubilee

        It’s the only thing that will allow them to keep control and reset the economy without a revolution. Basically it’s mortgage debt forgiveness on a massive scale – ALL mortgage debt in the country would be zeroed out & forgiven. Hey do a Google search and check it out. It’s getting mentioned more and more in the MSM. In fact, I seen a guest on FOX talking about it earlier today. Given the choice of either going over the proverbial cliff and a violent, disorderly crash with blood in the streets (mostly theirs after having an open-season on bankers should there indeed be a crash) or a mortgage jubilee and a somewhat orderly resetting of the economy, while the powers-that-be maintain control, and things keep chugging along, my guess is they’ll choose the non-violent model, not so much to save everyone with a mortgage. But more to save their own sorry asses for all this debt they’ve unleashed on the pissed off citizenry that’s now coming home to roost. Personally, I think we’re about at that fork in the road and I can’t see any other choices. The mortgage jubilee is coming through either as a result of the crash or their coming mortgage debt forgiveness program that they have yet to announce – that’s their choice. Let’s hope it’s that clear to them too.

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