Strategic Relocation: Where To Go When It Hits the Fan (Full Movie)

by | Nov 16, 2012 | Emergency Preparedness, Headline News, Strategic Relocation | 482 comments

Do you LOVE America?


    Joel Skousen, one of the world’s foremost experts on home security, retreat preparedness and strategic relocation, says that no preparedness plan is complete unless you’ve taken into account the single most critical threat we face during a widespread emergency.

    The number one threat that I concentrate on. It’s not terrorism, it’s not natural disaster, it’s not even government or war.

    The major threat is population density.

    Because every crisis that threatens, even a local crisis, can turn exponential because of close proximity to people who cannot help themselves. Even good people panic in a crisis…

    The obvious answer would be to move to a rural area and out of the way of hungry, thirsty and desperate masses of people. But, that’s easier said then done. The majority of Americans, even though they’d do it in a heartbeat if given the opportunity, simply don’t have the available resources to get out of Dodge and live the life of an off-the-grid  homesteading survivalist.

    Frankly, this is not easy.

    It’s not easy because very few people can go and leave their jobs, and go out into rural areas where there’s safety.

    In other words, security financially is the antithesis of security in terms of location, because the safest locations are where there’s very few people, very rural, and that’s the opposite of what you need to have jobs.

    Even for a survival expert like myself it isn’t a clear cut easy choice – you have compromises that every location has.

    You don’t want to be part of a major metropolitan area when that happens.

    This is the crux of what I teach people in Strategic Relocation.

    People mostly have to stay within population centers to earn a living…

    How to prepare contingency planning so that you can get out into retreat areas and have the information, the forewarning signs, to know how to do that. That’s really the only way to survive.

    Most people cannot get rural right now. They can’t make a living. It’s just impossible. So, this is a solution for everyone.

    With an extensive discussion about geopolitical events, motivations of those in power, and possible scenarios that could instantaneously change the world as we know it, Joel Skousen and Alex Jones tackle some of the questions you are no doubt asking yourself.

    • What are the most likely collapse scenarios we face?
    • Where will I go when it hits the fan?
    • Would my current residence be the best place to weather the storm?
    • Which states and regions are the safest?
    • Can I prepare a strategic location ahead of a disaster and relocate in time if disaster strikes?

    With detailed maps of the United States and provinces of Canada, Skousen not only provides regional threat assessments, but also explains the nuances of the decision-making process and what factors to consider, including critical aspects like population density, transportation thoroughfares, demographics, and personal finance.

    Learn how to develop a strategic relocation plan customized to your specific needs and abilities in this two and a half hour documentary made available for free by Alex Jones, Joel Skousen and

    Watch for free on YoutubeGet the DVD With Extended Information, Get the Book, Get the DVD+Book Combo

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      1. The FIRST thing to do is go within. Until you do that, you have nowhere to go. I have often mentioned, say, Dog Town Resevoir as an example. Find a similar place near you. A wood, a lake, and some elevation you can dig into for shelter if you must relocate on the fly.

        • Already relocated. Twice.

          Los Angeles -> Seattle -> Spokane, WA

          • WOW how does the fire feel, not much better than the pan I’d reckon. Standing by in SC out

            • At least each spot is easier to survive…LA would be a near-automatic death sentence. SeaTac would be survivable, but only if you got out in time. Spokane isn’t nearly as bad overall.I cover a huge chunk of this, though not by specific city – just hit up the link and scroll to page 12 (in the book, not the PDF), titled: “Where Do You Live”? ;)

            • I live on lake havasu, the water supply for 30 MILLION “citizens”

              I certainly don’t feel good about my family being there WHEN “it”happens. I’m sure there will be thousands of troops within hours.

              Im looking into the San Francisco range for cover,water,plentiful food.

              Just being near a lake or res. does not mean safety.

              • AZ Fred: I agree, but nowhere is “safe”.  That’s OUR problem now, some Americans want to give up their freedom for “security” and the result is the TSA, drones, and wiretapping of all Americans.  

                That’s a bad trade.

                Lake Havasu is not easily reached. Some one has to be going there to get there, so I wouldn’t worry about being inundated by visitors.

                Not much game there but those jack-a-lopes- have really big ears!   🙂

              • Good luck when it’s 117 degrees there with no air conditioning and no power to pump Lake Havasu’s (dirty) water.

                • I love this one. Jackalopes- My wife thought they were real when I pointed one out mounted on the wall of a restaurant-a fake one of course.. 🙂

          • Recently, I have been looking at motor homes.  You can pick them up for less than the cost of an acre of land.  I will most likely get one, if enough time still remains.With a motor home, you can keep most of your supplies in it and be ready to hit the road in a moments notice with the ultimate bug out bag on wheels. It can be parked anywhere, and you can select several different sites for backup plans.  Even move between many sites after the SHTF, as required.You can pull a small car or truck along with you, or a trailer full of supplies.  

            With a full tank of gas, they have a good driving range as well.  A nearby bug out point will leave you with plenty of reserve gas in “storage” for a longer stay if require.You can also customize it to fit your needs while you are waiting for it to be called into action.  Put a solar panel on it, or whatever.  They already come with generators and batteries, and would be relatively cheap to make sustainability without the grid possible.They come with water storage tanks and mini sewer systems.  They have bathrooms, showers and a kitchen.  And water heaters.  All of the “modern conveniences” that we are used to.They can not be taxed, and afford all of the constitutional protections from the corp allowed for your home, so long as you call it that when you are in it.  You have no legal residence when traveling  in it, thus no corp jurisdiction is given.And, you can enjoy it before the SHTF by going on camping trips, and other excursions that will prepare you if a bug out is required.

            I have spent a lot of the last year looking for the perfect piece of property.  Every one of them would come with debt attached, and a payment.  They would all require massive amounts of work and money for materials to make them retreat ready and livable, and they are far from home making the time for the work almost impossible to come by.

            Then I saw a nice motor home for $3800 in an ad rag.  In the last couple of weeks I have seen several decent motor homes for sale under 5000 FRNs.  Some appeared to be fairly nice, most had pretty low mileage as well.  They can be paid for quickly and owned out right with no corp claim on it.  They can be a home anywhere you have to be, or want to be.In my mind, getting a motor home is the best solution. 

            The corp will always claim it owns our land, and it’s goons feel justified in using force against you to prove it and take it away from you. For safety, if you hear on your radio of troop activity or other problems heading your way, you go down the road the other way and life remains the same except for a different parking place.It has become my goal and top priority to own a motor home in sound mechanical condition within the next four months.  I only hope  I have that much time left.  

            • The statement that they cannot be ‘taxed’ is not true.  Most states view motor homes, i.e.,  RV’s,  the same way they view recreational boats.   And, they very often have titles and registrations that must be obtained and then kept current – which gives our criminal politicians  an excuse to send you a bill every year.    

              Also, in the state where I live, any RV or boat or trailer that one might drive or tow that touches the road will have personal property taxes imposed on it.So, one way around that is to get a pickup truck, 2500 or bigger and then purchase the most expensive slide-in truck camper that you can afford.  

              Get as many options as you can afford, even if you might not need to use them all in regular circumstances.   These campers do not touch the road, they sit on the back of the truck.  They do not come with a title, they come with a certificate of ownership.  They do not have to be registered at the DMV – so,basically, the sleazy, greedy, vulturous politicians really have no way to know you own one.  Oh, and to screw them even further – find a dealer in a nearby state that has no sales tax, and order one from them.  

              You’ll save a couple thousand dollars that you can apply towards increasing the number of options that you can order for the camper.   So, while you will still have to pay personal property taxes on the vehicle – plus title and registration fees, the camper gives you a way to escape most of the ownership costs of a regular RV.   

              Granted, living space is not as plentiful and living in one of these for more than a week or two might not be 100 percent fun in a SHTF situation, but the good quality brands are excellent shelter, have all the critical appliances and features and since they are on the back of a truck, are far more maneuverable and easier to deal with when traveling down back country roads.  You can take them anywhere your truck is able to go, and there is no hassle about having to tow a big rig behind you that will hinder your ability to navigate or turn around in tight locations.  

              • The problem with an RV is that you literally carry everything you own on it during SHTF. It makes you very mobile, but it also makes you a big, fat, moving target. Add in the very limited space you have (though it has plenty of room if you do it intelligently), and it should only be considered a last resort, IMHO.

                • You are so correct!  It would be like driving a big Walmart. Food, supplies, shelter, etc, just get rid of the current owners. Then again, there is the potential gridlock on the roads…even if you do think you got out in time.  Did you ever try to hide a Sherman tank?  It’s difficult and it still looks like a Sherman tank…lol.   And how far can you get on even 25 gallons?  250 miles?  Less?  Then you are just another lump along the highway. 

                  Better give your decision a lot of thought and make your plans in detail.

                • Rather than look at a MOTOR HOME look at at pull behind RV. That way you can park in an off site area and detach from your  vehicle /truck. You can stay more mobile that way. You can always park in a secluded area ahead of time and use that as a bug out location.


              • Steve, ask them what the taxes are for a nonresident, and who will issue you a license?  They don’t.  Just put a plate on the back that says “home”, and when anybody harasses you ask them where a nonresident goes to get the papers they request.They can only tax what you allow them to.  There is NO LAW that says you have to be a resident anywhere.  Declaring yourself a resident is what gives them the jurisdiction to tax.  You must remain a nonresident to remain free of the obligations of residency.

                • @  GC I will never bad mouth another preppers SHTF plan.  For the main reason, we don’t know exactly how bad or from what direction it may come.  Secondly, we don’t know all the circumstances influencing a person’s decision to BI or BO or just try to stay mobile. I do think that whatever a person chooses to do, a plan that includes three of the main  piorities should be thought out and planned for accordingly.  In my book, these priorities are  #1 – availability of a clean water source.  clean branch from good spring water, or a hand dug well where the water can be accessed via rope and bucket. Filtration/purification systems can and do work, but for only a limited amount of time on present filters/etc.  You can take sewage water and distill to pure standards but you need a power source or have a small one that can be fired with wood. # 2 – is safety.  In a SHTF situation safety will not come with numbers; or at least not with “large” numbers of people.  Of course there are a very few exceptions and that gets into large and remote areas with acreage and communal type living.  It does have benefits with the “right” type people.  Sadly, I don’t know too many people that I trust that much.  If a person is planning on a BO plan that centers around RVing, they should always have a destination or two or ten, in mind that will give them the availability of water, safety, and #3- wood.  Without wood, and in a long term situation without electricity; life could get very tough and very quickly.   Depending on the temperatures outside, a good source of firewood could mean the difference between hunkering down in two or three sleeping bags and eating cold foods, or having warmth and hot foods to help not only the body but also the spirit.  There is something about a fire that can make a person feel alive and lift their spirits when all else seems to be doom and gloom. For all people that are thinking about going “mobile” when SHTF, just remember it takes fuel to go any distance, and some form of currency or bartering to pay for it, and last but not least; electricity to get it out of the ground.  If there are no tanker shipments, you had better believe the stores will hoarde the underground tanks for themselves.  Just sayin’. 

                • If you are on a “corp” road with a sign that says “home” you will get a ticket for a ficticious plate. Just saying.

                • In Mich you Can’t get a driver lic unless you also have a Valid Residence POST office mail address and mailbox etc for us mail deliveries.  You can reside full time in motor homes. But How will you drive it if zero driver lic?……

                  As for plate says “Home” on it?…..Good luck when its Impounded first time a cop stops you. Cant guess how costly impound fees will be as compared to reg car or pickups truck are?

                  But a normal sedan or car is probobly aprox. 200-$300 total fees if its police impounded. And you can’t get it back from impound till its paid in full. Impound lots and cops don’t accept any “soverign” person arguments that I am aware of.

                  Also I’d be very carefull in buying so cheep of a unit. I too have planned such a move for several yrs now(5yrs or so).

                  Yes cheep ones are plentifull. But as with most all stuf ya gets what ya pays for. If its older expect roof leaks, broke down fridges(big cash for new or used to fix it).

                  Like boats nothings cheep in fixes or repairs. Fridges alone are about $1200 and thats 8 cu ft to maybe 10 cu ft sizes!

                  I do agree though, Gypsy potential travel home life is what I am going to do.

                  Main difference for me is I first wanted a motorhome, but switched to rather get a Fifth wheel, and Seperate puller truck.

                  I am buying either a peterbilt or kenworth, but Medium sized truck.

                  For aprox. $35-50 thousand, you can buy what costs at least $125-150 Thousands when brand new.

                  With Cat C-7 or 8.3 Cummins engines, and a Automatic 6-speed Alison push button trans!, they avg about 11 to 13 MPG NOT towing. To about 9.5 to 10 MPG With 5th wheel towing.

                  But with an acre or a few acres paid off land to park on in two areas expences will be Alot less than a full size crib.

                  Nothing beats ability to start engine, batten down hatches, and Drive away!….To location #2 for winter when too cold in location#1.

                  Or all points in between. I think it will be Freedom such as you get with a Harley Bike. But way better as all you own is with you always.

                  Only main down side is if a mob gang tries to hyjack it and You while on the road etc…..But Thats reason we All Pak lots of loaded Firearms right.

                  Just always travel back rural roads and enjoy scenery and do Not be in a hurry to get anywheres. Avoid large or Medium size citys at all costs!

                  All I now need is someone to travel with me to split fuel costs!!!

                  If I find any travel pals. they must be kids and pets free!

                  I can’t wait to sell a few more things and go shop for my 5th wheel and truck combo. Can do it now but need wait till got a little more extra cash as a “cushion” for emengcy back up cash etc.

                  Soon! Very Soon I hope!…Then I wil need lots of advise on locations to buy good and less costly land etc!……I can visualize it in my mind as I type!!!…

                  • As I lay in my sleeping bag in Zabul Province Afghanistan 11:25 hrs. 9 March 2013 reading these entries, which are basically the same thoughts and ideas I have had and been evaluating for sometime, I have the same recurring thoughts; I remember the movie Mad Max and I remember first reading Patriots given to me by Rick Reese of New Deal Shooting Sports in Deming, NM who was railroaded into jail by the law, unfairly accused of doing what the AG Eric Holder did in Fast and Furious. Rick gave me the book in 2007 and predicted the crash of 2008, I was profoundly changed forever after. I like the RV or camper etc, but and it is a big but, nothing short of an up-armored MRAP would be vulnerable, and even an MRAP could be compromised, you can’t do it alone you must be able to bring overwhelming firepower to bear on all the various, numerous threats you would encounter every dozen miles or so. Anything that moves will be a target….this whole situation our government morons have lead us into is quite depressing…best of luck, plan, plan, and plan some more….
                    James in the Stan
                    Private Contractor Afghanistan & Iraq

                • I have lived in several states and after being in a new place for a couple of months, if I have not changed my plates, I will be stopped. The local with ask why I have not gotten new plates for that state. If I don’t have a good legal answer/exception I will be told to get it taken care of or get a ticket next time he sees me. They know how to do their job and part of that job is watching their areas and it’s cars, people houses businesses etc for all regular activity.

                  Unless you plan to keep on the move you will get a ticket.

                  • Who is posting in my name?

                  • c says:”Unless you plan to keep on the move you will get a ticket.”

                    cost of doing what you need to do.

                • What Are the obligations of residency? Are you suggesting; avoid taxes or, depleat Govermente funding?

            • GC, its like you have been spying on me. You know what I am dealing with before SHTF? Is that if I skirt the motorhome or build a deck, the local authority will tax it like a residence. Now I have mixed emotion about SHTF. Do I welcome it or fear it. Fare well and stay on that plan anyway. 12vdc solar and wind is quite sophisticated these days, but you must make haste and get while the gettins good.

              • I must get in on this one–I lived in a rural county in Tennessee in hte 80s.

                The county was trailer home heaven—-Now, I lived in a ‘trailer’– no, not a mobile home,  as I was corrected by a California snob–while I was first married for 5 years; but not in this county with the tax problem we moved to later.

                So, the county passed a regulation; they didn’t care if you didn’t underskirt OR have attachments like porches, decks, etc…they were gonna tax you regardless because it was your residence.

                I mean can you blame them??  Every street and road had a trailer on every third address!!!  🙂

                • I am really confused. Married, Mobile Home, Tralier Park heaven, underskirt and attachments. and now we add tax problems….Sorry couldn’t resist

                • jayjay says:”, the county passed a regulation; they didn’t care if you didn’t underskirt OR have attachments like porches, decks, etc…they were gonna tax you regardless.

                  I mean can you blame them??”



              • Add an inverter and 4 to 6 deep cycle batteries and you got somthin

                • Y99 you made me laugh in a good way! We live off grid, in the desert, so I understand all about inverters and deep cells. Makes good solar! Have fun everyone. You all give me great things to think about! Do u know, u can make a fan work on a deep cell? There’s all kinds of things u can do with some imagination or help. What will we do with our animals?

            • #GC:Bravo Brother and welcome to the Nomad Clan. I have two motor homes myself. My 19 foot dodge is my daily driver, thus my get home bag. My 24 foot winnie is my bug out home in case I cannot bug in.  Two is one and one is none, I like having options. I live along the cali coast, so short of a tsunami, I plan to bug in. The Pacific Ocean will provide necessary food and water. Good luck in finding an RV to fit your needs and style,lol. ….be safe…stay the course….BA>

            • Mac, appears there is a formatting problem.  You know I would never ramble in a single paragraph.

              • DK is right, except that your RV will probably be “impounded” and looted by the cops/thugs.Where I live it is termed “improper registration”. McVeigh got tripped up by the same thing. In a crisis, any pretense will be used to stop and loot your rig.

                • I overheard a guy tell another guy that if mcveigh went to the UN instead of OK buildg, hed be a real Hero…..

                • McVeigh should have picked a target without little kids.  Just saying.

                  • Please people. McVeigh was totally set up. We should know this.

                • Bob says:”t your RV will probably be “impounded” and looted by the cops/thugs.”

                  Agreed. If you are perceived as a rich target in a SHTF environment(and an RV will be seen as such) you will be a target & eventually you will be taken down)

                  Operational Security requires low profile/invisibility to stay viable, absent very substantial resources and manpower to withstand an assault (Not gonna happen).

                  So… I say nothing bigger than a 1 ton van (and preferably a crappy looking one at that. Cramped alive is better than cushy dead.

            • I tend to agree with your overall suggestion. We had a 30 foot MH a few years ago. It had all the amenities you brought up. We traveled a few times, a few thousand miles each time and had fun and saw some great sites. Our MH was made in the ’90s but had very few miles so it was in great shape and was almost problem free during our adventures, but truth be told, you get what you pay for (more or less) and MH’s in general need vigilant up keeping to keep problems at a minimum.  

              After our adventures, we ended up selling out MH. Then, early this year I started investigating the MH world again to see if we could find “the ideal” MH for our personal needs. The 26 footers and up are big and with that size the problems seem to increase exponentially, not to mention, gas mileage is very poor, even with diesels. Our original MH had a gas engine and we were lucky to get 10 mpg at best at certain times. So, I started looking for a smaller RV that was durable, affordable, dependable, that got good gas mileage.  

              To make a long story short and to cut to the chase, I found one in particular that fit the bill. There may be “better” ones out there, but generally those are two to ten times more expensive.  If any of you remember, in the 70’s Toyota was one of the first that came out with a truck and chassis that could have various “coaches” built on them. The “Chinook” was one of the first (12 to 17 foot range back then) and over a span of almost 20 years, (’94 – 22 feet long) Toyota had 20 to 30 “coach” makers (Winnebago Warrior, Dolphin, Sunrader, Odyssey, Seabreeze, Itasca, etc.) building these kinds of Motor homes. The first Toyota’s had the 4 cylinder 20 r engines. Then, they had the famous ’22’  4 cylinders. Great engines but underpowered. However, getting to ones destination if fast time wasn’t a priority, they were dependable and very fuel efficient, over 20 mpg! Then as the coaches got bigger, so did the engine. Around 88 or 89 they came out with the great V6 3,0 engine. More power, dependability and good gas mileage; up to 18 mpg.

              A few months ago, after months of extensive searching, I found a ’93 model with low miles and the interior that my girlfriend and I liked and got it for $10K. This was in almost perfect condition. However, they can be found for half that price still in great shape. (Craigslist go to RV and type in “Toyota”) Anyway, the key is to find one that has been well maintained. You can tell, when you see one and go inside it. No leaks. No moldy smells. Everything works. Previous owners took great care. Engine was maintained properly.With that being said, I have mixed thoughts on having one as one’s Bug Out Vehicle. I trust ours because I know, from my trip to Colorado (from the Pacific NW) in October, ours is dependable and gets fairly good gas mileage 17 (includes driving through some passes). I have a rack on the back that holds 7 – 5 gallon NATO jerry cans (35 gallons) combined with the standard 17 gallon gas tank on board and I can go over 800 miles.

              I also have mounted panels (See here) batteries, charge controller and inverter so that we can use some of our appliances and lights without tapping gas in the generator.Basically it truly is a small second home and one that you can depend on to get from point A to Point B and back with comfort and joy. Ours is presently set up somewhat for off the grid. Panels etc as mentioned, but water is limited to what’s on board although I’ve got a number of different water filtering systems once we get to where we want to be if water from a non-city water dispensary is needed, but one would need access to some form of water.So, as it sits, it’s a BOV. But more important in case our present home is damaged in a man made or natural disaster, the MH is a second home and doesn’t have to move off our land. It could, however, get us out of here in an emergency.  

              That brings me to my second point… How many city dwellers have a retreat to go to? About as many, percentage wise, as there are “preppers” in this country, very few. How many preppers live in a major city? Odds are most don’t. But some do. Should those that do live in the city make a run for it if all hell breaks loose? I don’t believe they should.Intimately connected to strategic location is “familiarity”  with one’s landscape.  I don’t live in any major city, in fact the city that I’m on the fringes of has a population of around 30,000. That may seem like a lot to some, but it’s an agricultural based collective that live in a very fertile valley where the city is located, so, vegetable gardens are as common as floral gardens, around here. People around here know food doesn’t come “from a store”, it comes from the ground; a garden. With that being said, I’d like to go back to my first statement of “familiarity” of ones immediate environment is essential, for optimally navigating  through most man made or most natural disasters. The reason I say that is, as much as I hate cities and go out of my way to avoid them, if I were living in a city, if I chose the city as my personal landscape, the last thing I would do, if a sudden collapse was unfolding in a short time frame, would be to jump into a car, with a BOB in the back seat, and head for the country. Why? Because I believe one has a better chance of “surviving”, an initial breakdown of society, in an environment where one “knows” the landscape, even if that means a high density 5 city block area. 

              To anyone reading this who is a city dweller and a prepper. I believe you’ll have a better chance of laying low (shades pulled, doors/windows locked, under the radar of the masses even though they may be in your back yard, than to jump into a car with minimal provisions and heading to the hills. Staying put, in an environment that you know like the back of your hand, even as those around you might be panicking, will give you a better chance of making it through the first phase .

              I think the first 2 to 3 weeks will be the great “shoot out”. Living off ones provisions and laying low will be critical as long as one has the provisions and the ability to calm the mind of oneself and ones loved ones, so that panic doesn’t take over and cause rash actions. Getting in ones car, truck or RV in the city and going to the country without a specific destination (no retreat cabin or friends) can be very dangerous. We all already know that. Harsh weather, bands of roving, hungry humans, not  so friendly towns along the way can all create a veritable kaleidoscope of scenarios that could and would create much more havoc than staying put where one is “familiar” with the landscape. 

              If we preppers aren’t already where we want to be, at this late stage of the game, well, then have we properly prepped? 

              • This MH alternative is something I have considered, although at a much more rustic level, i.e., getting a 16-18 foot tandem trailer, and provisioning it with 6 mos supply of freeze dried food, Berkey’s , camping gear, Stovetecs, portable solar panels with several good Li Ferrous Phosphate batteries, solar ovens, 10-15 Nato cans of fuel to allow a non-stop travel of over 1000 miles, camping gear with sleeping bags and mats to allow for even arctic temps, some chain saws, a rotor tiller,  rain barrels, and some tools, and even rolls of chicken wire, and last but not least, excellent communications gear i.e., portable buddipole, Elecraft KX3 radio.  (yeah, yeah I forgot the guns and ammo–but that is why I said a tandem axle trailer)

                Admittedly, this would be a hardship, but it would give you optimum mobility and a fighting chance, especially if you bugged out early–and would need 6 months ready made food supply, especially if one had to bug out over winter and need time to get the garden and meat sources underway.  I would NOT get a RV because it is too specialized, and advertises you as a leisure class baby boomer with money and a fat, juicy target. (Consider how the Indians could overtake a single covered wagon, even if it were guns vs bows and arrows.)

                I would want to be able to unhook a trailer and park it and hide it, etc, travel with only my SUV if need be…something harder to do with a full blown RV. Plus, if I wanted to travel some back roads, a simple trailer would be more manageable. …and don’t forget the power winch attachment.  The trailer would be totally plain, so I could haul fertilizer, a pig or two, building supplies etc , if the SUV  didn’t have enough room.

                The reasons I have drifted toward this plan are several:

                Owning a well provisioned homestead may make you a target over time unless you have numbers of like minded folks you can trust in your community.  Even if you are rural, gangs may be seeking the protection and safety of remote hideouts and you may be faced with more than you bargained for if the SHTF drags out for months or years.  I have only myself and 2 others, so a solo homestead bug out location makes less sense for me.

                Owning land means government  has  more leverage on you–meaning confiscation— if you for some reason can’t pay property taxes. If I bought any land, it would be no more than 10 acres and I would not develop it, unless it the “coast was clear” and the SHTF scenario has past….hence the chicken wire.

                Let’s face it, I am a softie. I would rally much rather live on the grid, have my computer/internet and job with some cash flow.  I don’t want to go “all in” on my preps because I just don’t know when and if TSHTF is coming, how fast it will fly, or how far it will splatter.  But I certainly have taken notice of events and don’t waste my time watching mainstream media, and now only a complete fool would choose to ignore current events. Nevertheless, it seems everyone around me…white collar professionals especially , think I am a nut and gloom and doomer.

                In my mind, too many variables to plan ahead and pick one definite place to be ahead of time. I would rather have some flexibility. If one bugs in too long in a bad place, may not be able to bug out at all later.  I certainly understand those who say hunker down and let the first wave of the storm blow by before making your move. My thoughts are to provision a trailer and keep it in a storage facility on the outskirts of the city if you live in a big city. Since I am south centrally located and in a smaller town, not so much a problem for me, but certainly am intrigued by what others have to say, unless it is just guns and ammo and blam blam blam  shoot the zombies.


              • Check out Quartzsite, AZ. There are thousands of acres of BLM land that you can dry camp on. $170 for a 7-month camping permit. I think that includes waste dumping priveleges. No water or power. The sun always shines so a few solar panels on the roof and LEDs for lighting will suffice.  You can spend the occasional night at one of many RV parks for $20-$30 to dump and flush, top off the batteries, and fill the water tanks. It’s a cool place, too, from Jan-Mar. It’s like Woodstock for old farts in RVs. (Car shows, RV shows, swap meets, rock hounding). Open carry is widely practiced so that’s a big deterrent to slimers. Drop in at the Quartzsite Yacht Club for a burger and a beer, and join the nationally recognized yacht club. Their motto is Long Time No Sea. My lady and I were ther for a month early this year and had a ball. Not far from the California border so there’s a lot of grocery stores, etc. within an hours drive.


            • If there is a mass exodus from your area, I am not sure an RV will get very far. If you can time any such “event” such a plan may work. If it is like the evacuation preceeding hurricanes, get out waaay early or forget it.


                If everybody “bugs out” to “the country”, it won’t be “the country” anymore.

              • I have often said here that if you intend to “bug out”, you will need to be there to get there. Otherwise you will likely be stuck in traffic.

                In Phoenix, for example, there is really only one direct way out of town if you want to head North. Two other ways will get you to water and woods but all of the roads would be jammed in an emergency; as they are during a long weekend. 

                Personally, from my experience here, small towns are great and locals are friendly. There is lots of water in Arizona … and plenty of shade and shelter … if you know where it is at. Water doesn’t always flow year round either.

                Chances are that the general population here, who have not explored the countryside, do not know where these resources are located. Recon your wider area so that you are familiar with the locations of these resources if evacuation becomes necessary.

                Gasoline will be in short supply during a true SHTF. Campers may want to consider a Wal Mart parking lot in a small town for “facilities” and food without extensive travel.

                At a minimum make sure you have a good bicycle (with baskets), a good back pack, and a couple solar panels for that camper too!

                • Good points. I’m pretty comfortable (if comfort is the right word to be using under these conditions) where we are located, to ride out the storm. I must confess though, I’m always checking “other” locations out. Joel’s interview with Alex (frog in his throat) Jones, gives some good general advice on the subject. I don’t see myself “bugging out” unless Nature gives me a “friendly” nudge, advising me of the benefits, like “Get out, fast, cause I’m gonna level a few hundred thousand acres of land and your in the melt down area.” I’m not saying I can always “hear” what Nature has to say, probably because most of the time I caught up listening my own chattering mind, but once in a while I’m able to fine tune the dial and hear enough to keep me out of harms way. 


                  Anyway, I’ve got the ’93 Toyota Winnebago Warrior filled with gas (15 nato jerry cans filled in garage to take) and filled with grub and if the need arises, throw in the weapons and some other non-duplicated provisions along with the pets and girlfriend and head towards Idaho (from Washington State). But to tell you the truth, Nature would have to be really clear in her method of getting my attention. Most likely, I’d ride out the storm right where I’m typing this post from. I know the landscape and I know (somewhat) my neighbors and neighborhood. It’s mild west of the Cascades and Idaho in an RV in the dead of winter could be brutal. 


                  Besides, I’ve traveled in the RV during so called “peacetime” and locals in other regions can be unpredictable. Can’t imagine how neighborly they might be during an out right Civil War.


                  Bottom line for me; do the best I can to “Lay Low While the Storm Passes Over”.

                • If you had 4 wheel drive you could go by Lake pleasant and take Crown King road, but as with all bug out plans there could be snags, have to know the route before hand, wet roads,plenty of places to be ambushed etc etc.  And yeah Arizona is sweet, i live a mile from a 15 square mile wilderness area covered with plenty of places to hide out, several year round water sources, bountiful wild edibles. And if worse came to worse it’s less than 100 miles to the Grand Canyon. If you don;t mind me asking where abouts are you in AZ ?

                • BNB: Today I am in Palm Valley. I know the area you are talking about well (Castle Hot Springs) and I have taken the back road from Lake Pleasant to Crown King and on to Prescott a number of times. Someone in a camper and a attached trailer with preps could live in that area indefinitely. If you are a member of LDMA you have another advantage others would not have.

                  My mine is located in those mountains. 🙂

                  • Hey Guys
                    I’am in Kingman how do you get to Lake Pleasant? I know how to get to Prescott, by way of the 40- but have only been here 3 years. So glad to be out of CA.
                    Any info would be appreciated.
                    Thanks Holly

            •  A motor home is not a bad idea.  I live in a very rural area with quite a few acres, but the house is close to the road.  It’s a country road, but being close after the SHTF could be risky.  I’m thinking of getting a trailer that I could tow into the woods  to set up near a spring if necessary.  The main problem with a motor home, that I can think of, is when you are in transit.  You will be very vulnerable if you’re on the road after a crisis has hit.

            • Lived in a motorhome for 6 years  40 ft pulled a 20 ft enclosed trailer with car and motorcycle and everything we needed.  Had 110 gal fresh water could go 14-17 days between dumps and refill. Solar to keep batteries charged. Looking for another one now. Looking at ’95  to ’99 with at least 400 hp. Should be able to fined one for $40 k or less.  


            • GC.,

              Great idea. That is one of my plans. I have a camper and a F250. It is not ideal, but if there is a partial collapse (depression) where the bank is taking the land and home that you rent(property taxes) you can either live in a box or have an actual home. It may not be everyones idea of a house, but how many folks during the great depression would have loved to have a camper? My struggle is keeping prep supplies in it. I live in an area where the temps get hot. I dont like depleting my shelf life. I may have to get a power pole so I can keep my ac on in the warm months. I am also working on a larger fuel tank for the truck, so I can go 1000 miles without a refill. The drawback is that if it is a road warrior type of SHTF, you dont want to be on the road. My goal would be to find a place to postition it shortly after the collapse. (fed lands would be a good choice) There are alot of national forests that will be left unattended post SHTF. Even during a partial collapse you can legally stay up to two weeks at a fed campground. (we prefer the dry campgrounds that require a generator for any electricity). 

            • Have you considered what you would do if there is an EMP?
              All of this about the motor home/trailer is for nothing then

              • Diesel is the go . No electrics and can hand crank. Microwave is Kaput though.

            • I can not fathom a purpose for exposing myself and my family to clear lines of fire on a roadway. We will hike through bushes and brambles, crawl through culverts and black berry patches, we will travel in the shadows. Roadways are not in my SHTF plan.

          • we are looking for preppers to fill positions at our retreat in northern Id… if this interest  you let me know… Zach

            • contacted…

            • Northern Id sounds great to me how do I get in touch.  We are preppers for several years and my husband is a EMT licensed, I am a teacher plus we are farmers from way back.  I canned 197 qts this past summer and put in the freezer mucho stuff.Thanks, Mallardhen

            • Positions?  What do you need?

              I can fix cars very well, usually just about anything else.

            • Zach:  How can I reach you? I won’t give out more of my information here but will contact you privately.

              I also happen to be a Registered Nurse, former Air Force medic, and former military if you are interested in certain skill sets.

            • Whereabouts in Northern Idaho? I am here as well…

            • What Retreat??

          • is spokane good place to relocate to?


            what is special about it?

            • Spokane is NOT a good place to relocate to…higher crime every day, actually a lot of gang activity and Snappers. I have family that lives there and they are broken into and stolen from EVERY single night..either house or cars.

              You couldn’t PAY me to live in Spokane..and I’m not far from there now! Hell, I won’t even commute there for work – which alot of people do around here.

              Not to mention the jacked up hunting fees and laws…

        • When It hits the fan..

          I will go home

          kiss my wife

          hug my kids

          secure my preps

          secure my weapons

          nough said.



        • It does not matter what anybody does,  millions will be leaving the citys. ” Lines of drift”,  The golden hord,  whatever you want to call it.  The military, the government, knows all about those things.  And they will be ready and waiting. Anyone not already at their location , for those lucky enough to have a location, its going to be very tough getting there. You better be very physically fit, have some kind of a combat background, and woodsman/tracking skills. People dont realize there will be more than just the general population to deal with.  You will see the worst in people if something major happens. The government, especially this administration, will most likely try to corral everyone or kill them.  Anyone with military/police powers, unless they are your friends, will try to stop you, trip you up, step on your toes, arrest you, detain you, or just plain kill you.  We have seen it before we’ll see it again. It will be very hard going anywhere, remember all the drones their going to put up, belive me this government will waste millions$$$$$$$$ going after somebody out in the middle of nowhere. They get off on it.  If anything happens you better hope its a high altitude EMP that will knock out government tech also, or else we will see something like  Stalins Russia in the 30’s or worse. I would rather have my freedom than corraled and ruled buy a bunch of  losers.  Watch ur corners, shoot straight, watch ur six, and KEEP THAT ASS DOWN………..

          • The problem with knocking out is much of the Govt/military tech is hardened against EMP and will most likely not be affected as bad as we will be, at least according some of the reports I’ve read. Lines of drift, yeah I worry about that one a lot. We’ve been looking for outstate property and found some but now my wife doesn’t want to hear of it even though she was the one looking and found it. Now I’m a little confused on her comittment on being safe over convenience.I was raised on a homestead were we had to pump water and grow our own food and she never was. I’m guessing she is really scared about the future but not telling me the real truth.I know God provides but maybe that provision is through hard work tilling the soil. Molon Lobe

          • Ryback is basically right. If you’re in a major metro area, that’s where you’ll have to make your stand. If you get on the road, you’ll run out of fuel sitting in traffic, that is IF you make it out before everyone in on the road (“bugging out” rioting or otherwise) is corralled into one of the many conveniently located FEMA processing centers (a.k.a. concentration camps). Here Obama’s minions will disarm you (down to pocket knives and fingernail clippers), take all of your provisions including all food (which will be shared communally) and survival implements. The Obama and FEMA will kindly in return provide you and your family with three small meals a day, a few square feet for your family to live in, and eventually either a ride or a lovely walk to another larger area where you can stay at their expense in tents. You will be separated from most of your family. Need I say, I hope you don’t have pretty wives and daughters. Then when FEMA runs out of resources, you will either ride or march to a labor camp. Don’t worry if you get sick or beaten to a pulp by a guard, Obama and FEMA will give you a little first aid and when you die, throw you in a plastic box and bury you nearby in an unmarked grave among thousands of your countrymen who also decided to “bug out”.

            • So true Garth!!

        • Listen up, you preppers. You think that escaping to the rural areas is going to work? Let me tell you. WE ARE ALREADY HERE. WE KNOW HOW TO DO WHAT YOU *THINK* YOU KNOW. You will not be welcome. You will find nothing but the ammo you think to stock to kill your fellow citizens. AND WE KNOW THINGS WE WILL NEVET TELL YOU; coming in aggression agianst your fellow man. The whole attitude is decidedly cruel and UNAMERICAN. And even if you do win by overtaking your rural neighbors you will have destroyed the key to your very survival. I love Darwin’s rule. You will eliminate yourselves for all eternity. I will even cook you a very special bon voyage meal. Terrible people, wake up. If you lived as close to the land as we do you would realize the foolishness of your thinking, and how much is really invested and what it takes to continue an unbroken chain of provisions.  How many of your own desperate fellow Americans are you willing to destroy to save your pathetic lives? You should come and work on our land and get your fair portion. Then you could learn how to live IN ABUNDANCE as well, and not just “survive”.  I say to hell with Americans if you choose to be this way. I’ll happily sell you my ammo stockpiles and guns while I board a plane to leave you to fend for yourselves and kill each other like the rats you will become; infested with parasites. The only way through is to WORK WITH OTHERS OR ADMIT TO THE FACT THAT YOU MAY “WIN”, but the prize isn’t very good when you open the package. Any smart person will smile at you, and burn everything they have, poison it, and leave you with  what will have become a godforsaken place at your own hands long before you figure out that you need to “bug out”.  Since I will have anticipated the foolish actions that you plan, you will not find a dwelling, clean water, or any livestock. The game will be long gone before you even think of getting “there”. Such a cop out. I firmly believe in being prepared for natural disasters, and helping people out. But you are foolish indeed to trade your dignity and honor for such a cheap price. Eat the feathers of my chickens that I killed and walk in their spoiled blood after I have thrown their rotting carcasses into the wells and rivers. Horrible idoits, do you think I’m going to let you plug your RV in and stench the land? YOU ARE THE ZOMBIES. YOUR HORDES can’t win. You will eat grass like cows, you will eat tree bark, you will eat your own children. Such is the nature of your ignorance. You think what I say is crazy? Think what YOU SAY. THAT IS CRAZY. Perhaps you aren’t worth saving, since your own environment will not support you. You are living like parasites in “LA” if you can’t manage where you are. Why, then, should I respect you? You have declared yourselves enemeies of the American people, against each other on a level that makes the civil war look like a harmless board game. Indeed, these beliefs that you hold so dear make you unworthy of the life that you were so lucky to have bestowed upon you. You will make this country into the worst place on the planet. A nation of thugs. STOP BUYING INTO THE LIE. Start working WITH your neighbors. Do it now. There is no time to waste. Form Partnerships for the sake of your grandchildren. Lease a parcel of land and GROW THINGS like plants and livestock. Are you not willing to do that? You will most certainly do it out of NEED the way you all think, but by then, you will have destroyed the very things that will sustain you. Like seeds, and animals, and water, and the KNOW HOW. WAKE UP!!! You can change things NOW. You don’t have to wait for some disaster! You will fare far better as communities working towards common good and decency in the long run than villifying your fellow American “ZOMBIES”. You will eat garbage first. I can tell you what happens next, but I WON’T. I KNOW how this story ends and I find it inconceivable that you should blindly create such a nightmare for yourselves. Prepare wisely, work with your community. There are plenty in want right NOW. I doubt that you care. Try to get over yourselves and see the big picture. I am sorry to say that you will make America worse than any third world country and you won’t live long enough to see better days. Your children will suffer, and their children. So easy to destroy, and so hard to rebuild. Don’t be a FOOL and believe every piece of crap on the wires. Prepare to endure hardship, and work with your community. Otherwise, the powers that be will WIN and it will be at the most dear cost to yourselves. In fact, I think I will relocate my progeny, and stay behind to ensure your total destruction since I have nothing else to lose. Will I teach you to raise local seed? Will I teach you anything? No. I will show you things that will sustain you only to suffer a longer death for threatening my life and having so little regard for life in general. You will have NO IDEA what has happened to you. You can be sure that at the very first sign of your BS, I will make SURE that the water you thirst for is POISON. You will not kill me AND take over my well, stream, or any other body of water or anything else of use. Dark ages style warfare. You will die a slow death of thirst, diease, and strange illnesses that you can’t prepare for or endure. Only these two hands can make your life IMPOSSIBLE. It is all a matter of prepraredness and resolve, right? You need to do some serious rethinking. I have profited from your irrational conclusions and plans already. The tires on you RV will go flat, and we will take YOUR supplies, stupid. We KNOW all the places. WE KNOW ALL THE ROADS : YOU WILL NOT EVEN GET HERE. You won’t even get to burn that tank of gas. And where the hell do you think you are going to fill up? Who do you think will have control of the fuel out here in the “boonies”? Damn the day that American military would kill Americans. I think you insult  our military. I bet any decent vet will tell you that HE COULD NOT do that, and is not obligated to follow any such orders.  Oh, the Harley guys? You might need to fear them, but we don’t. Besides, we already have dirt bikes, ATV’s, tractors and everything else you will *wish * you had. Wanna play some horsey Polo? With YOU as the ball? We are really good with traps and running targets. *smile*. Better think this over folks, you DON’T want your rural neighbors AGAINST YOU. While some of you may think many rural people “uneducated”, they are very, very, clannish, and crafty. WE KNOW a stranger when we see one. I have some surprises for you! WHoo hoo! Oh, what a wonderful world! It is by collaboration that we have acheived so much, and you will acheive your own deaths the same as by suicide. Look past the end of your nose, consider how you want the future to be. THEN DO SOMETHING WORTHWHILE. Throw some money at your rural neighbors, they might plant an extra row just for you. Quit being silly. We have a serious MONETARY problem. We won’t be interested in “trading” with you when we know we have you by the throat and your intentions are rotten. How much will you pay for a gallon of water? If you can find any? Silly, silly. Silly. Since you are so ruthless, what option would you have? And what possible incentive do you think you can offer? It’s really thoughtless. I never thought that the average American could be so conned into belieiving such lies and think so destructively. I won’t want or need your watch. I won’t give a damn about your coins. I won’t care about any of the things you believe in. I will see you as hostile disease carrying invaders and parasites. I will cut you off like a cancer, or swat you like an anoying “BUG”. Change your attitude, change your beleifs, build relationships with LOCAL people that can provide for your community. Invest in them collectively. Then, if an area is harmed by natural disaster, we will be able and willing to accomodate them, or maybe you. We have already made the choice between convenience, money, and cable TV in favor of a better way of life, at least to our minds. We regularly endure and gracefully manage situations that you would call a “disaster”. Guess what? The power grid isn’t worth a damn out here and we are used to it. Who are you going to call on your worthless cell phone? LOL, it won’t work reliably here under NORMAL conditions, for example. You are going to call OUR local police????? Hilarious.

          ZOMBIES!!! WAKE UP!!! STAND UP!!! BE AMERICANS! YOU DON’T NEED ANY AUTHORIZATION. YOU CAN’T MAKE IT ON YOUR OWN TOUGH GUYS. A short term “win”  is NOT worth the destruction of your own people and your own lands. DON’T TEAR YOUR OWN HOUSE DOWN.

          Local famers will be more than happy to plant some for you and save it for you. Sheesh. Take a chance, invest in your own communities. Then one community can help another. That’s what we call trading around here. And we aren’t planning on GOING ANYWHERE so why would we “rip you off”??? WTF???  We’ve already been overtaken by Walmart, Monsanto and so on, and we still endure. Go LOCAL. YOU DON’T HAVE TO DO IT ALL and you can only hold out for a short amount of time. You’re going to miss me when I’m gone. giggle. Who’s going to reload your empty shells? Where will you buy more? Do you seriously think that we don’t have the “home field” advantage and skills? Really??? Really??? These folks around me know every nook and cranny anywhere around, and they REALLY do hunt WITHOUT GUNS. Please, Please, WAKE UP. They can pin a running rabbit straight through to the ground and I have the pics to prove it. Hell, you won’t get past our HOUSE PETS!!! Our dogs DO HUNT and they WILL attack YOU. Oh, that’s right waste some ammo.  Eat dog. I’m afraid you people are too far gone to convince. You’ve bought the doomsday fear crap, hook, line, and sinker. Just the way they want you. Pitiful. BE SOMEBODY. Ever thought about asking a local famer to plant you a year or three of say, corn? They already know how and have ACTUALLY  dried it, ground it, canned it and what ever the hell else you can think of. Ever thought about spending your week end working on a leased co-op? Oh, that’s right. I keep forgetting. You can’t form a working partnership or “trust” your neighbor, but you can rely on Muli-national corporations. Sheesh. Go ahead and FLAME me. I know it will be tough since I am asking you to reconsider some of your “core” beliefs. They really are lies that you have been taught to tell yourselves. I won’t bother to visit this site again. So go ahead and fight amongst yourselves.  My family has been here before the revoutionary war, and thanks to some native americans my butt can tell you to piss up a rope and suck it dry! And the way you “plan” that’s all you will have left!


          • WOW! That was a very thoughtful, passionate post! I appreciate your reminding us all of community and how we need to look at our fellow man as neighbors rather than adversaries.  And also bringing up what we may each have to offer the community instead of relying only on self. Thank you for the slap in the face !!

          • Talk about gettin’ shit off your chest.

          • Karen; Good for you Im happy for you, but you better be able to protect what you have. With good neighbors! Because I know any threat you may have, wont be from people like me, or the general population, it sounds like you got that covered, it will be from government.  Like I said before, they will waste millions going after people, no matter how trivial , its your tax dollars their spending . Wake up!  Good Luck!

          • I hope this doen’t mean your going to start shooting people if they ask for help. The military might overreact to murder, oops, sorry, self defense

          • Hey Karen, why chicken out after blasting everyone? Sounds like if I happen to camp on your property by accident, you’re going to kill me? How neighborly is that? Why not share your chickens without poisoning them? How can you hate people so much? It sounds like you want to harm everyone here would want to run away from people like you. They would defend themselves from people attacking them, yet you would kill them if they are looking for a safe place to hide from murderers or theives, if they happen to come across your place? Geez, may I never meet anyone like you, so cruel and hard. May they neither! Wanna come kill me? I live in the desert, eat rattlesnakes, cactus, my own chickens, rabbits and ducks, have a well, garden, and take care of myself off grid like you too. Many people do here. But I’m not going to kill someone because they happen to come across my place while running from murderers and thiefs in hard times. I may cook up some rattlesnake stew if you come my way so be prepared! But who wants to run to the desert anyway? It’s a harder life than yours, why don’t you come try it someday? Forget blasting others. Why not take your own advice and help whoever comes your way with a need? Whatever happened to being a good neighbor? You can’t tell others to be good, then harm them yourself? What good logic is that?

          • such an unholy rant of hate! what a bitch!!! with people like you it really doesn’t matter what befalls us. A run in with you would indeed be a worse hell than anything that the Gov might do. Go back to hell Satin! and take your fucking bloody chicken with you!!!!!!!!!!And by the way bitch my family too were here before the revolutionary war, and one fought in it (for Americans) people you seem to hate!! May a cursed rock slide or indigenous vermin poison you back to hell.

      2. It was an interesting film! The book looks good too.

        • I disagree. I usually don’t say things that will get me thumbs down but this needs to be heard: We are not going to enlighten the sheeple by having them watch a video that talks about “race specific biological weapons” and other conspiracy theories. If you want your families and friends to prepare I suggest that you do NOT show them this movie as they will conclude that all preppers are nutcases.  

          • ANYTHING related to Alex Jones *IS* nutcase. I agree with you and would not even bother to watch 30 seconds of that. It is extreme sensationalism at it’s best. Alex is a kook.

            • I am glad you feel that way. I do too, and in fact I think his style and sensationalism detracts from a level headed approach to current events and meaningful, realistic preparation. Jones  has taken a page from the Televangelists and trying to become a teleprepper.

              I respect those who quietly live their faith, not advertise it.

              • I’m certainly not a fan of Mr. Jones, but in this case I wouldn’t through the baby out with the bath water. Sadly, most dumbed down Americans have been programmed to react to “sensationalism” to even function.


                I say, whatever it takes to penetrate their addictions. The more on board, even if it means at least half the brain synapses are now working, the better. Much of what Joel has to offer is sound, practical advice. Whereas with Mr Jones, he’s probably got a very large budget he has to bemet every month, i.e. “sensationalism” sells.


                • Yeah, I agreeon breaking through the addiction. (but) When I visit I’m always worried I’ll get slammed by viruses. On one occasion it was 6 versions of a “heur exploit virus” dangerous to say the least.The last time Alex was on CNN w/P. morgan Alex was a nut case and blew it for me as a viewer. Most of the time when I viewed I came away feeling angry and I’m almost never like that, my wife even notices the change in attitude…not good ///molon lobe

              • I enjoyed Alex’s interview with Ron Paul. Alex was definitely tamed by the level headed approach of Mr.Paul
                It’s too bad Alex can’t keep his mouth shut. He’d have much more credibility…

            • Alex Jones is a proven mouthpiece for the very same ethnic tribe of racial supremacists who are 100 percent behind the deliberate destruction of our traditional,  90 percent White European populated American Republic.    Right now, in fact, these very same racial supremacists are crowing and beating their chests on the mainstream media, literally gushing with delirious joy that, post November 6th, 2012 – this dung heap is now a permanent minority majority controlled nation.

              Check out this excellent article:


              Oh, and Skousen is a member of the enemy’s camp, if I am not mistaken.   Which reminds me of a comment I saw made by another poster on some other website.    It basically said that you should never be stupid enough to take or solicit for advice from your enemy or from your competitors – because they are likely to offer you advice that, if followed, will simply make it easier for them to destroy you.

              That sounded like solid advice to me.



              • Steve. Good to see another aware person here!…We are in the “Minority” on this site sadly. I think many at this site will faint or go into convulsions if they actually go to the web link you provided.

                Especially if they bother to Read a couple of incogmans exellant articles filled with facts and Truth not seen or encountered at many locations.  If we keep trying we probobly will awaken more folks a little te at a time.. Hope so anyways! it is the Final Frontire or barrier so to speak eh!

                But once they do awaken, none ever return to Sleeppy mode again!

              • Yes, that site sent me into convulsions. Anti-sematism just earns you a great big target on your forehead, and God is the one doing target practice. It is ignorant in the extreme to blame Jews for the woes of the world. We should be vigorously supporting Israel, as a nation and as individuals.

                • No what IS ignorant and foolish to extreme is to give anyone or group a free pass when facts Prove They Are to blame for so much for so long. And to believe God is going to do so is really asinine.

                  When the Lord Christ said He is the Only way to salvation etc…He didn’t include any such free passes or seperate methods for Anyone.

                  Not even them jews. Especially Not them!….The worlds biggest mass genocidal Murderers of Whites and Christains, especially in the last, 20th century was/IS the jews you seem to adore so.

                  Somewheres in area of 1/3 of a Billion dead. Check Real history begining with 1918 soviet Russian Jew mass murderers. Then get back to us/me ok.

                  I wont wast any more time with idiots who refuse to Learn True factual history before spweing off.

                  ps worlds biggest antisemites is jews, as arabs is true semites…Most jews=Eastern european khazers. More homework for ya!

                • But NOT  fighting their wars for them.

                • Actually whites were a minority when they first came to america… they found a way to take care of that didn’t they OMG WHITE GUILT O NO

                  hey AM no free pass as you said.

                  Also when you got to check one of those nice little boxes on paper work Jews check the WHITE box 🙂

      3. here is the thing: If hundreds of millions of city dwellers “get it” and they all move to a rual area, then the rural area becomes an urban environment and the urban environments become uninhabitated.



        • But most city dwellers are far to comfortably to move.Or to dependent of their work, famel or friends closeby ect.I think we are many who feel a deep urge to change our livestyle radically but are still slaved by the system.To take the full step is sooooo dificult.I think it will be far to late for them when the city dwellers finally “get it”. 

        • If hundreds of millions of people “got it” there would soon be no “it” to “get” anymore. The problem would be half way to being sorted out.You have a point, but I for one doubt that many people are interested in “getting it”.

          • Why should they “get it”?They’re fat and happy with their Obama Phones!

        • Good point. When I lived in Michigan, I lived in a rural area. While the village I lived in remained rural, all around us farmers were selling out to developers who would build subdivisions. The only good thing to come out of the housing bust was it slowed them down.But here’s the kicker. These people moved out because they wanted to live in the ‘country’. But soon after they didn’t like that they couldn’t get pizza delivered or there wasn’t a mickie d’s within a mile or they had no place to take their dry cleaning. Then of course well and septic is just to much trouble.So they start putting in strip malls, force the townships to put in water and sewer and force those (who were there long before them) pay to tie into the system to help them pay for THEIR conveniences.I read a quote once that went something like this: “The charm of country living is only for those who don’t live in the country”. The truth is they want to live in the ‘country’ but have all the conveniences of the city. And that is why they are so delusional to begin with, that they will never all get ‘it’.

          • M E N T A L

          • The best part is when they start complaining about the farm smells and animal noises. These people are a-holes.

            • Farms and animals smells in my rural area are far superior to the absolute identical ZOO Ape/Gorilla cages smells emitting from Detroit where I lived prior.

          • arco – same thing is happening here in southern Maine.  All the fields and woods I used to hunt now have houses and the land is all posted.  Just lost 3 more hunting areas this year.  Deer hunting here absolutely sucks now unless you are rich and have 50+ acres for yourself.

        • Hell fire, by the looks of all the people that didn’t heed the warning of “Sandy”; there won’t be many people prepared to pick up and leave the city.  Most think the caravans of supplies and help will show up to make their lives all better.  You know, like the FEMA outposts.  LOL.

      4. I have a place in mind, but talk about primitive.

        • Hey, high speed loafer, got a beach in mind?

      5. I cant afford to move or bug out….so…hide in plain sight….think about it….cheapest house on the block…privacy fence for the garden…fortified, well stocked basement…extra burried…good supplies, asandpoint with a hand pump,solar charger, wood heat, and ammo, ammo, did I mention ammo?…..seeds, nails, hand tools, and know how to use them….stay low…

        • Exactly…..I live in an old house in an area which is mostly business…..I can lay low and my house will not be one that anyone would ever think has anything….and, I am kinda  rude to those peeps I do not know so I have an advantage there….and my shepard is a good early warning system…..

          • People, I hate to break it to you but when folks are starving they will go door to door. None of this “that place looks abandoned so lets not bother”. By the time spiders and insects are on the table they will quite literally leave no stone unturned…Defending your place will demonstrate that you have something worth defending. Ever seen videos of an angry mob ignoring gunfire while they charge at their objective? If you think they wont then you’ve never been truly hungry. It can drive you to insanity, and in a mob they’ll have slim odds individually of being one of the poor mugs to be killed.I wish you the best of luck but the suburbs will become a graveyard for all who dwell there.

            • Ausprepper: You do, its called YOUR LIFE!

            • Ausprepper: What most poeple fail to remember is that in a total breakdown there will be no municipal water; no drinking water and no toilets flushing= no water treament what-so-ever.  Most people in this country are not trained in survival and are terribly out of shape so they wouldn’t last more than two or three days without clean water and proper sanitation. Water-borne diseases of all types would re-emerge with a vengence and the ensuing death toll would be horrendous, which would compound the santitation problem. From ancient times to ours, clean water and proper santiation has always been an issue for an army in the field.   Only mobile gangs whose members have had military training could possibly overcome this issue for a while. But without drugs, up-to-date immunizations, and trained medics, even they won’t be able to go too far. Microbes are the great equalizers.     

            • they need to just bring their stuff on down to me and i`ll store it for them,,,people will tear their houses down for the firewood to keep warm,,heck i`ll store it free of charge,,what kinf of ammo is it???

            • In fact in my mind, which doesn’t work like most, I think the homeless will be looking for just that—ooh, there’s an abandoned house, let’s break in, start a fire with matches and paper/wood and at least be warm!! :-)No way am I making my 5 year old house look abandoned–impossible, to even think like this. 

              • If your crib looks kinda more like a hells angels club house I bet not many will venture too close!…….A Few decals(HD ONLY!!) a Flag or two flying, a few old bike parts laying around yard or driveway etc…

                A couple kinda Mean appearing folks resideing there will go far too!

                Instead of the usual “How may I help you”?……A better one may be “HEY! You Lookin At ME!”?    Kinda like the movie Taxi Driver aka Diniero character!!  That should work swell.

                “You Must be talkin at me! Cause I don’t see anyone else here but Me and YOU!”…….Seconds prior to hail of bullets!

            • well, one good thing is most of these urban dwellers really don’t get moving until they finally figure out that Uncle Sam shut the barn door behind them…. by then, gas supplies become very scarce, inhibiting their movement.  But I agree, suburbs would be death traps because they are equated with more wealth and pacifest thinking such as “What?  A gun?  I would never have a gun in my house.”  Yeah, I wouldn’t want to live in a suburb right about now.Personally, me and mine have come up with a “those are the neighborhood crazy people” persona…we don’t mow the grass promptly or get rid of the leaves promptly … do a bit of yelling … and people steer real clear of us …and to look at our house, you wouldn’t think we had a pot to piss in…not run down, but not a new coat of paint every year either…we crack up about it…because they are on a need-to-know basis and none of the neighbors need to know.  We have our own circle of friends with the same mindset on self-sufficiency and plans to band together. 

            • Exactly Aus,Ms Feisty, listen to Aus. Yoyu are thinking for a short term event like Sandy Katrina. When SHTF switches into  phase II, you will face the search and destroy/consume by more clever resilient looters (not the helpless Zombies who will no longer be a factor).

            • I will agree with you, but someone like me is not in the position to fully bug out.  I am very comfortable out camping, carrying my gear, hell we even have the expedition packs and everything for that sort of hiking/camping….but I have little kids.  And though they have camped their fair share, until they are a bit older, I won’t risk going out (exposed) to a bug out location.  Because, honestly, depending on the SHTF scenario, driving could be out of the question.  They are way too young to defend themselves or outrun someone (my youngest is still in diapers).  All of our gear would be stolen before we could get away.  Not something I am willing to risk. Regardless, I have alternative ideas in mind.  Hide the items, as people have mentioned, and if looters/hungry come to my door, I am hiding with my kids as well.  Perfect place is the attic.  No, it is not an excellent place to hide food for the long term, but to hide people for the short term for protection, it is a place to consider.If you set up the kitchen with just a few scattered cans/jars of food to give the impression that the place has been ransacked or emptied, I would argue that most people are too stupid to waste their time looking anywhere else in the house.  Hell, putting a sign on the door for “friends/family” to indicate that you have “gone to ___________ to meet up with your _______________” could also throw people off.As horrible as this sounds, starving/desperate people don’t think straight.  I will utilize that to my advantage to keep my children safe.

              • My sibling is in a similar position – with 2 babes under two.  We’ve been working on a cheap towing caravan.  It seems more comfortable for them than a tent if our homes are burnt out – and could be moved away from immediate danger if needed. A single molotov could put all our homes at risk – fire is a frequent occurence both in natural disasters and civil unrest. Myself and my son have our tents and a sturdy bicycle.

                It’s more for if the main residence is burnt out than for joining a refugee column – historically the mortality statistics put us off attempting this approach with babies in tow.  We have places to go dotted around the UK and abroad if needed – no way am I thoughtlessly joining a column of refugees with no end safe destination in mind at the end of it – that way lies certain death/suffering.

                The UK is too highly populated for the wilderness to be a viable solution to riding out any trouble. All we can do is prep to outlast the wolves at our door.

              • Kynase – consider “quarantine” signs on your house – this could serve as a deterrent.  This was my plan in my former location.  Don’t know if it would work but it’s an option.

                Do a little research and print out some official looking signs from the computer and post them all over the place . I would include the name of the disease you are “suffering” on the sign – things like “plague” scare any sane person.

                The CDC lists some diseases that must be quarantined by Executive Order.  They are:

                Cholera; Diphtheria; infectious Tuberculosis; Plague; Smallpox; Yellow fever; and Viral Hemorrhagic Fevers; SARS. and some types of Influenza.

                FEMA quarantine signs are printed on red paper, btw, easy to come by around Christmas time.

                ~ D


            • People won’t attack at once. A lot more people have guns than have food. Armed gangs will have a high casualty rate. I’m sure I’ll have to fight people off in the small town where I live but I expect to survive.

            • Ya,,,,, ok. Ever see videos of Korean store owners holding off looters/MOBS ins LOS ANGELES in 1990’s.????

            • Ha, if things do get that bad…  Ever see the movie Eli?  The front door scene?  Dinner is knocking!  ha  Protein on two legs.

              Cannibalism…   Just add Frank’s hot sauce.

              No problem for a real survivalist.

              Corn fed people.  ha

              You guys know I’m joking right?  But if it came down to it….  I’m talking on the edge of death….  you bet .

        • And if they burn down that “cheapest” house on the block?  Or, they have 20 or more surrounding you?  Do you have 40+ to defend?

          I have a friend that thinks the same way, and believes he will be just fine “hiding in plain sight”.   Nope.  Sorry.  Won’t happen.

          I’m not trying to be a pessimist, I’m simply being a realist.  One cannot “afford” to stay in that scenario.  You must bug out if you are in an urban area over 10-20K people.

          Good luck!

          • Isolation works to an attacker’s advantage, too.

            • Not to a prepper who has planned for the attacker’s arrival

              • It’s hard to prep for a bullet coming from 500+ or more yards away while you’re digging in the fields some early morning trying to get the crops in the ground. Around here half the boys I hunt with can make that shot on a regular basis. That’s the problem of being out on your lonesome. Read the reports of those that have gone through a modern society collapse how the folks who lived outside the cities fared.

                i’m not saying you don’t have a good idea. If it was feasible for us to be permanent out and about we’d do it.

                I’m saying there are pros and cons for every situation. And it’s really hard to defend against someone with a half decent long gun and some middle of the road optics. Much less someone in the 800-1000 yard range.

                • OK, straighten this out for me.  Are you saying that a person is better off and SAFER in the urban/suburban areas than in the “open” (i.e. country, etc)?

                  If so, I’ll reserve my comments until you answer.

                • Where I live, the only way you could shoot 500 meters is down a road. 150 meters would be a long shot. In ost of the US east of the Mississippi, there are plenty of places to hide within .22 range.

                • HisArmsWide, Sorry but there are defense tactics you have not even thought of.  I gave you a red-thumb for not thinking this through at all.

                  People who live and own property don’t (and won’t) guard perimeters all day — it’s a waste of time.  First reason of defense is to block and guard against trespassing, second reason is to guard against assault. Obstacles offer the best perimeter security. Alarms provide the first warnings. First defensive strategy is a passive one, but one that is well-established.

                  You incorrectly assume that property owners would not be prepared for long distance shooters.  Or isn’t one.  Around here, the targets are set at 200 and 300 yards. And we shoot groups at 1,000 yds at a range not far.  Distance always separates the adults from the kiddos, but don’t think for a minute that ‘the boys’ where you live are special. You would only deceiving yourself.

                  At any rate, a prepper with a rural property who hasn’t secured their perimeters along with the swaths nearby isn’t well prepared.   And if there are no alarms set, there would be no warning system either. All of these must be addressed to be prepared. But the bottom line is that preparations can be done so perimeters do not need 24/7 guards unless full assault is a probability and at that point, tactics would change.

                • Read up on what happened in bosnia if you want to know what it would be like in the city.

              • Just sayin’ it’s no panacea. Why were villages ever built in the first place? Your isolated homestead may chane occupants several times during an extended crisis. “Hiding in plain sight” is a neat idea, but impossible. It’s easy to tell if a building is occupied. The’ outer ‘burbs will become more liveable after your sheeple neighbors have been culled by one problem or another. 

                • Bob, there is no 100% perfect setting.

                  Historically though, people knew to provide some means of physical security to ward against attackers.  In early America, Jamestown (1607) was fortified against the Spanish (and as they learned, necessary against Indians later). Once people began to go beyond the settlements and into the ‘wilderness’, they continued to build forts to provide some of the physical protection needed from attackers.

            • Zimabwe and Argentina both have terrible stories of the fate of isolated but well prepped homestead families. In a city death will come quickly, out in the country you could be tortured for days by predators on two legs.  The sheer sadism some people are capable of is truly shocking.

              If out in the isolated rural areas I would do serious reading around how these people stay safe and learn from mistakes made before it’s too late. Too many people seem to have a false sense of security because they have no neighbours within hollering distance, not realising their very isolation carries it’s own risks.

              • Rural and “isolated”, as you put it, are not one in the same. A better way to think about any given rural area would be to use a population density because it provides more info than simply thinking about rolling hills or countryside farms.  As for us, I won’t provide many particulars but the property owners on all sides are gun owners, shooters, and hunters. We all have our own ranges and we would know by experience and lifestyle that you just don’t trespass on another person’s property.

                From what I have seen both in life and online, most people who live in the urban/suburban areas don’t know much about “rural lifestyles.”  To me, there are too many people giving advice that isn’t based on experience or knowledge.



                • Rural and “isolated”, as you put it, are not one in the same.


                     Exactly…..Perfect observation Z.

          • I love the Kinks

          • “You must bug out if you are in an urban area over 10-20K people”I don’t know…if you started whacking those 10-20K people NOW, instead of waiting until they are hungry mobs of zombies, wouldn’t you just be subscribing to the government’s example of preemptive war?After all, you ARE saving them from certain starvation, mob rule etc.I think, given a sympathetic judge, you might just get away with it.  

            • That’s a seriously demented comment.  Let me know when the Men in Black visit you.  And I mean what I say, and know what I am saying.  Is it that you are just silly (or ignorant) enough to think that your words have no consequences?  Fact is, you are wrong.

              Plus what you say is totally unrealistic.  Yet if you are willing to do what you say, then you are unworthy to be called a true Patriot, prepper, or for that manner — a human being. 

          • 854932, etc:  some did that during the y2k scare.  One man had a hide out in an old industrial area of Birmingham. several friends bought land way out in the sticks, then  later had a real hard time selling.  People are reluctant to  buy land now, as friends  did then, and took a loss on the sale.  I live in a city of just over 100K  and ideally,people that know other preppers in the country can team up with them when the time comes. Separate living (campers, trailers, cabins) are a must for family privacy and everyone pitches in.  Most won’t leave town as they want to guard their stuff they worked for most their lives.  Several couples y2k prepped like mad,  now dead and buried. We had a discussion (small group) last week about this and  compared it to insurance on the house and cars..only way to make sense out of all this prepping…

            • Y2k was a farce. No one needed to prepare then. But being ready for disaster, robbers, and theives is wise. We all need to do the best we can in our situations, and do what is right by individual conviction and abilities.

        • Except for the nosey neighbors, nosey neighbors and oh… did I mention nosey neighbors

      6. The unfortunate truth of it all is this,

        The most terrible predator in the long history of the world is not ‘Tyranasurus Rex’…is not ‘The Great White Shark’….is NOT ‘The Saber-Toothed Tiger’…
        We are, ‘Humankind’.

        If the SHTF and you’re not TWO full tanks of gas away from the nearest urban center having a population of 50,000 or more people you’re not going to survive. The wild gane will vanish in weeks…what kind of ‘meat’ will people be eating then?

        • Everyone always seems to assume the two gas tank distance is realistic. Really? Say about 600 miles average. First of all that assumes that the same horde that up to this point can’t plan from one day to the next is going to have extra gas much less a topped off tank. Yes there are resourceful people that can figure out how to work around problems. Unfortunately criminals are those types of people. Be that as it may, the attrition rate by the time they decide to venture out from urban or outlying low income suburbs will greatly reduce the numbers of looters rural folks will have to deal with. I believe 250 to 300 miles can provide a realistic buffer. Especially if you stay clear of the Interstates and major state highways. Water is a huge factor also. Most of these urbanites have no idea how to get more when the water bottles in the trunk are gone and the stores/gas stations along the way have already been cleaned out.

          • Let’s not assume the collapse will be immediate. An economic crisis can play out over months or years.

            • You can hit a bump, even while going downhill. Lehman Bros. happened over one weekend.

        • Get real, take a compass and draw a circle around all the large towns in the US 6-700 miles in radius, see what you have left-Nothing.   And you think with the grid down anyone will drive that farto pillage? Nah, the mobs will hit the first thing they come to and bog down.  George Patton never got that far

          • @ Paranoid,”Get real, take a compass and draw a circle around all the large towns in the US 6-700 miles in radius, see what you have left-Nothing.”  

            Yep, I’d say that pretty much sums it up!   In the deepest depths of the ‘Cold War’ circa late 1960’s – early 1970’s the US militay developed extensive, complex analysis of the effects of the Soviet’s multi-megaton warheads on the America’s. This stuff is readily available out there having been long declassified. The point is that in the limit of large time – months to years – almost the exact same pattern of depopulation would occur. Nukes are instantaneous yes…but given any large group of people, adversity simply weeds out the lesser leaving the adaptable ones behind and active…these would be an intelligent, wholly formidable group who would by that selection process be consumately competent in meeting whatever challenges were placed in thier path. From the urban center’s these would spread out like a slow-motion blast-wave engulfing everything said wavefront encountered until attrition had nullified every last one them.  

            To be sure, “Neccessity is the Mother of All Invention.” and this lesson would be imprinted on any who survived the first few weeks of a SHTF situation ‘down to the bone.’ Other than the drive to breathe when one is drowning, there is no human motivator stronger than the spectre of starvation and given the lead quote above I’ll leave you to envisage just how ‘inventive’ such a mass of gumans would become.   

            Frankly, I don’t see much that is below the Candian/US borfer as having a probability of survival that is anything other than marginal…except for those area’s where geography would serve as the interdicting mechanism…Mountains, Rivers…Swamps. To beleive that people so motivated would not find the means to move themselves to regions of ‘relative’ plenty is simplistic and bespeaks a confidence bourne of insufficient analysis of human nature.  

            As far as the ‘long, slow SHTF’ scenario’s posited by some here all that happens then is the circumstance becomes/allows for a more organized and evolved predator class to develop. “Think, think, think …then revise your assumptions and act accordingly.

            • Very unrealistic, in my opinion.  I’m still within the 600 mile range of a couple of major population areas but we’re exponentially safer than we were before.This simply doesn’t give people any options.I think we should all strive to improve, whether it’s improving the home where we are currently living, wherever that might be, or moving to a better area than the one we are in currently.If people are too invested in finding the “perfect” area 600 miles from any population center, they will end up feeling paralyzed, and staying right where they are instead of seeking an improvement.Perfection is difficult, if not impossible, to find.  Do the best you can with the resources available to you. Plan for the incidents most likely in your area.  Solve the problems you are most likely to face in your location.  Don’t let random numbers, statistics, and ideas discourage you from making the most of what you have available or accessible.

              • “A good plan executed today is superior to a perfect plan executed tomorrow”.     Patton

          • In Citys the probobal scenario is that the Badest or toughest gang or biker club, will real fast gain or Take full control of Massive Huge warehoused food centers. That type that has 100 Semi truck bays and are 1/2 a mile long and FULL of food etc!

            Then they will sell off alot of excess food to city dwelers or zombies types. Or barter trade etc. Most city dwellers will likely believe That food supply wont run dry for a long time. Or long enough for FED Gov daddy to assist.

            By then not many will be able to travel far to screw over rural areas.

            When folks is That hungry, they wont have much energy left for much of anything demanding. Especially when faced with armed rural folks with FULL Bellys!

            PS. Heard a gold and silver bug guy on RT news other nite. He said his opinion is we Are and have Been in Colapse mode ever since 1971 when Nixon got us fully OFF gold standard for money……Hmmmmm…

            Also said he thinks in several more yrs silver will be worth traditional one Sixteenth of gold spot price. Of course he wasnt considering what if Gold drops like it did back in 1980 era(?) when gold skyrocketed to aprox $1300 an oz, then when everybody got a mortgage to buy gold, price dropped back to $45 an oz If I recall correct.

            If That scenario repeats I rekon his silver predictions will also drop big time eh. Or remain same as now silver prices. While gold drops.

        • have a friend who grew up during the nicuragurian revolution, was amazed to see wild animals roaming here, as within a few years the wild game had been hunted to near extinction as people  were misplaced and starving.  Sad thing is it was a cia coup that created that revolution, for multinational corporate  gains. that u.s funded war took the lives of countless people, including my friend’s parents eventually, his community, and his youth, as the war stretched from the time he was 8-18. and it is still recovering under virtual 3rd world conditions.the best  thing you can do if you already live in a rural situation is plan and network with neighbors. nothing more solid than a well informed, prepared, compassionate community.

        • I get 400 miles to a tank–there is NO WAY to be 2 tanks away from a major urban center.This is ridiculous. 

          • Hi jayjay,   There is a single caveat to the last post of mine above. it would be expected that those who could manage mobility post-SHTF would do so and therby expand into the regions surrounding the urban centers…in effect this would DECREASE the populations local to the regions they had exited.   Here’s where it get’s tricky: A person who did not have the wherewithall/ability to relaocate would have to employ – to the UTMOST –  a strategy of  obfuscation (at all levels) relative to themselves, thier preps and the appearance to any and all potential observers to convice any potential remaining population that ‘nothing to see here…move along’, Eh?  

            The strongest, most agrressive WOULD exit any region they felt was or would be , soon depleted of life-sustaining resources in search of ‘Greener Pastures’….with a FEROCIOUS will. It would be expected that the attrition rate would – based on the previously mentioned “Cold War” era studies – range from hundred’s of thousands per week to millions per week.  The object, and the implied question, is, “Can I, Will I survive long enough to outlast the ‘predators’ which will, unfortunately, be everyone who has not made extensive preparations and secured same. Also, in no small part, the reason that so much of what is put forth here – and elsewhere – with respect to gettin’ out o’ the big towns, is that those places have no natural ecology. Absent the sustaining presence of mankind these places one and all will be utter wastelands in which neither clean, drinkable water, or edible food will be anything other than exhausted in at most six months after any significant disruption of the “All-That-Is’ currently.  

            Many are in the position that relocation is simply impossible, to all such, again, I say, “Think, think, think….then act accordingly”. If after thorough and merciless evaluation of your particular circumstance, you cannot conclude that your ‘survivability’ is better than 50% then DROP your life and do something different…regardless of the consequences. LIFE, above all things. When the grim reaper comes, be assured his test is ONLY PASS/FAIL, nothing else applies. Good luck to all….

      7. If the SHTF you aren’t going anywhere.  Oh a few of you in cities of 100K or less may get out.  If you are ready to go in minutes, no waiting,  first the phones will be so over crowded you cannot call anyone, then the gas stations will be so full you will get no gas,  forget packing, forget the ATM”s, forget credit cards.  The first idiot that thinks he knows how to drive 100 mph on tires that blowout at 90 will close the roads.  Either get out now or plan to keep your head down for an extended time, How long?  Nobody knows , all I can say is those people who cannot take care of themselves will have to be gone.  One winter  no more than 2.

        •    there you go. if the SHTF quickly, no ones getting out. here in Houston, we locked up the freeways for hours with a 3 days warning to get out ahead of a hurricane. if there’s mass panic ala banks and stores shutdown with no sign of re-opening because the US currency just went hyperinflation in a week; youre not getting out.if youre in a city of any soze, best bet is to store food, water and ammo for a few months and just wait things out until those unprepared have gruesome endings and the world resets. the world will move on, just gotta be one that makes it thru.

          • Amen lena…it is just that simple.

          • A shout out to Lena in my favorite “Big” city (Houston).  I live in the mountains (Appalachia) in Mid-Atlantic state and have been to every large city in the USA except Seattle.  Houston is/was my favorite by far.  About twelve years ago before 9/11 , I thought about relocating there.  Everyone I met seemed like OK people.  Even the hispanics seemed nicer than usual.  I’m talking about many,many visits. Anyways,  10 + million peoples is way too many for my laid back prepping ways now.  Good that you are planning and hope you and yours have a quick and reliable escape plan for SHTF.  Good luck to ya!  

            • Im on the outskirts of the san francisco bay area, i know im in a bad place but at least im not in the middle,  i have already mapped out the back roads(forget the highways) to get to the sierras if i need to and all the water spots in between, i have food, water, fuel, bug out bag with everything you can think of and weapons, its best to have a few different types of weapons as guns will let anyone nearby know where you are, im hoping nothing happens for awhile because i to will be heading to Houston to settle down, have even picked the area i plan on living, i really need to get away from here but in the meantime i have to be prepared right next to a city of about 7 million, if the SHTF i think it will be very ugly here.

      8. Alex, if your going to ask a question ….make it short an to the point. Shut up and let the man talk.

        • Thanks for reminding me why I don’t want to watch a 2.5 hour interview with Alex Jones.Take a breath now and then, people.  Some of you take this waaaaay too seriously.  Life is still going on out there.

        • Hah-Hah, you do know Alex Jones right?

        • It took Alex about 30 seconds to say something that is untrue. 90% of the population in America does not live in urban areas. Only 70% of the population lives in cities of 50,000 or more.The facts never stopped him from telling a good story, but this is a new record even for him.

      9. BI,

        Know you’re busy…when you get here we’ve had another 6+near Tonga at about 15 till midnight central. Incidentally, was just over at USGS and I queried the RS for quakes at or above 6.0 for the last 30 days,

        16 during the last 30

        11 during the last 15 days

        8 during the last 7 days

        4 during the last 3 days

        …Do believe we have a correlation here.

        Also, an immediate 5.0 aftershock nearby….keeps gettin’ better and better…don’t it? 🙂

        • @ JustOneGuy.  I finally finished it.  This should show everyone where the next big earthquakes should strike, based on previous activity.  You can probably look at the other 131 out of 158 locations in the South Sandwich Islands region that I gave until Nov. 24 in which three earthquakes of 6.5+ have already happened, as the South Sandwich Islands was hit also today.   As you can see from the below posts that when this region of the Antarctic Pacific Ridge is hit, much bigger earthquakes occur from this, often 7+.I tell you this took me forever to do today, as I was away from the computer for most of the day on top of trying to make sure my chicken scratching were difficult to put on a computer screen.  watch these places as already since today, as you said the Tonga area was hit with a 6.0.  This area from the liast is hit often after the Ridge has a 5.0+.  These earthquakes around here are less common, only 47 times out of 39 years. 

          • BI,    5.3 West Chile Rise, few minutes ago….

        • “The sun unleashed a monster eruption of super-hot plasma Friday (Nov. 16) in back-to-back solar storms captured on camera by a NASA spacecraft.”Link to video of it on Drudge Report

          • KY Mom,   Thanks, been so busy the last few days couldn’t keep all the ‘loose ends’ tied down…hadn’t caught that. Something else odd, not bad, not dangerrous, that happened at the same time Thursday night/Friday morning was an unusual low-grade, long duration ‘flare’ around NOAA 11613. It was almost like someone holding a smoke grende out of the window of a slow-moving car….s long very high-temperature mass of gas trailed out of 11613 backwards (relative to the solar rotation) roughly 500,000 km. Never seen that type of display before. I’ve got a E-Mail in to NOAA’s SWPC at this point waiting for a clarification as to what that actually was…I’ll let everyone know when they get back to me.   A lot of ‘odd’ stuff – again, NOT dangerous, just different – has been going on for several months now…it’s got a lot of scientist’s scratching our heads as to what’s going on. Lest I communicate that ‘There’s NOTHING to be concerned about’ generally, no…that’s not the case. Historically, it’s common to have very large flares occuring even on the decay side of the curve of any solar cycle. Watchfullness is ALWAYS warranted. Again Thank’s for the ‘head’s-up’!

            • Man, how do you see all this stuff, J1G?  We keep going outside in the middle of the night freezing our rears off every time there is a meteor shower that is supposed to be visible and we never see a darned thing!

              • Hi Daisy,   ‘Gee, gets cold here late at night ….don’t it?’ 🙂 Actually, one of the more difficulat things to do is ‘star-gazing’, it is, of course, wholly subject to the vagaries of one’s local weather. Much like BI, my efforts revolve around a variety of sources, ‘Feeds’, from NOAA, NASA and several others. I don’t get cold….the satellites do! 🙂   As an aside, has anyone heard from CoCo lately? I just realized that NOTHING here has been excessively capitalized in about 3 days. Strangely, I find myself a little worried for our ‘little ones’ when they’re suddenly not to be found….

              • Daisy: Try using 3-D glasses. maybe those metors will pop right out at ya”!  Worth a shot.

            • JustOneGuy,

              You are welcome!  Glad I could help.


              KY Mom

            • J1G,

              Wow… thanks for the confirmation of the spiraling backwards flares…

              This is more validation of the Pipers theory… sorry.

              As we approach December and in to 2013, its gonna get weirder…

              pipermichael dot wordpress dot com

              page; Something wicked this way comes…

      10. @ everyone….Egypt is now firing rockets into Israel…uh oh….it’s getting very real very fast folks. ( drudge report )you have any last minute preps you better get them TOMORROW. I got mine today.     :>)

        •     yes, i saw that and my first thought was it may be getting to late to prepare anymore. that could escalate to full blown WW3 in two weeks, may not; but it could just that fast.add that to the east coast hurricane issues and european economy falling into a recession and it is setting up that the world starts panicking and that ball just keeps rolling downhill.

          • We may have till 2016, 2018 for ww3. Best to do what you can as you are able, if you don’t want to get burned. I hope I’m gone when it happens, by natural death, not by some mean person harming me. Gonna be horrible. Except for those who built underground bunkers.

      11. @ justoneguy…it will continue to get better and better I think ( or worse and worse ) depending on prespective.:>)

      12. *perspective                       sorry for spelling error.

        • @ BPD,    Ummm,  Nahhh…I think you had it right the first time, ‘Pre-spective’ is the operative concept here Brother! 🙂

      13. Here is the list of where the previous earthquakes have occurred when the area around the Pacific Antarctic Ridge was hit before, like it was Today.  Expect a 6.5+ earthquake by Dec. 1, more likely a 7.0-8.8.  80% chance, higher if more polar activity starts up.
        Past earthquakes at today’s 5.3 quake At Pacific Antarctic Ridge and what they lead to.

        Date of Subpolar quake—–Date of 6.5+ Quake——–Latitude——–Longitude——–Magnitude

        1. 8-7-73———————No Earthquake

        2. 9-18-73——————-9-29-73————————41.9n———–130.9e————7.0

        3. 6-25-74——————-7-2-74————————–29.1s———-175.9e————7.3

        4. 10-21-74—————–10-23-74———————–8.4s————154.0e————7.2

        5. 5-16-76——————5-17-76————————-40.4n———-63.5e————–7.1


        6. 6-10-79—————–6-25-79————————-5.0s————145.6e————-6.5

        7. 4-19-81—————–4-24-81————————-13.4s———–166.5e————7.3

        8. 5-25-85—————–No Earthquake

        9. 6-3-85——————6-3-85—————————15.3s———–173.5w———–7.0

        10. 9-11-85—————9-19-85————————-18.2n———–102.5w———–8.0


        11. 9-3-86—————-9-11-86————————-5.2s————-152.4e———–6.7


        12. 10-19-87————10-25-87————————2.3s————–138.4e———-7.0

        13. 9-11-88————–No Earthquake

        14. 7-22-89————–No Earthquake

        15. 4-18-93————–4-19-93————————-4.0n————–128.2e———-6.8

        16. 5-15-93————–5-15-93————————-51.4n————178.7w———-6.9

        17. 7-28-94————–No Earthquake

        18. 4-18-95————–4-21-95————————-12.1n————125.7e———-7.2


        19. 5-19-95————–5-14-95————————-8.4s————-125.1e———–6.9


        20. 4-26-97————–4-28-95————————-42.5s———–42.7e————-6.8




        21. 7-8-97—————7-9-97—————————10.6n————63.5w———–7.0


        22. 10-27-97————10-28-97————————4.4s————-76.7w———–7.2



        23. 3-21-98————-3-25-98————————–62.9s———–149.5e———-8.1

        24. 8-5-98————–8-20-98—————————28.9n———–139.3e———7.1

        25. 8-20-98————-9-2-98—————————-5.4n————-126.8e———-6.5

        26. 9-23-99————-9-25-99————————–23.7n————121.2e———-6.5


        27. 11-27-99———–11-30-99————————-18.9s————69.2e———–6.6



        28. 9-2-01—————9-11-01————————-21.0s————179.1w———-6.5

        29. 10-9-01————-10-12-01————————12.7n————145.0e———–7.0



        30. 8-13-02————-8-19-02————————–21.7s————179.5w———-7.7

        31. 9-4-02—————9-8-02—————————3.3s————–142.9e———-7.6

        32. 8-6-04—————No Earthquake

        33. 3-4-05—————No Earthquake

        34. 4-16-05————-No Earthquake

        35. 12-22-05————1-2-06—————————19.9s————-178.2w———-7.2

        36. 11-30-06————No Earthquake

        37. 1-28-07————-1-30-07————————–21.0n————-144.7e———–6.9


        38. 3-17-08————-3-20-08————————–35.5n————-81.5e————7.2

        39. 8-6-08————–8-9-08—————————-60.1s————-153.8e———-6.5

        40. 10-9-08————-10-19-08————————21.9s————-173.8w———-6.9

        41. 1-21-09————-No Earthquake

        42. 8-18-09————-8-28-09————————–7.2s————–123.4e———–6.9

        43. 2-27-10————-2-27-10————————–37.7n————75.1w————7.4

        44. 5-19-10————-5-24-10————————–8.1s————–71.6w————6.5


        45. 7-5-10————–7-14-10————————–38.1s————-73.3w————6.6

        46. 7-17-10————7-18-10————————–52.9n————-169.9w———–6.7

        47. 11-21-10———–11-30-10————————28.3n————-139.2e————6.8


        Out of 47 times this region has been hit with a 5.0+ earthquake, 37 times a 6.5+ earthquake struck within 15 days.  This is 78.7% of the time.  For those not familiar with latitude and longtiude here is the general area with each number that had an earthquake.

        2. Northern Japan

        3. Kermadec Islands

        4. Papua New Guinea

        5. Turkmenistan and China

        6. Eastern Indonesia

        7. Soloman Islands

        9. North of Vanuatu

        10. Southern Mexico and Northern New Zealand

        11. Papua New Guinea and north of Guam

        12. New Guinea

        15. Indonesia

        16. Aleutian Islands region

        18. Philippines and Kuril Islands

        19. Indonesia and New Caledonia

        20. Prince Edward Islands region and Southern Mexico and Kermadec Islands and Iran

        21. Venezeula and southern Mexico

        22. Columbia and China and El Salvador

        23. Antarctica coast

        24. Southern Japan

        25. Indonesia

        26. Taiwan and Southern Mexico

        27. Indian Ocean and Eastern Russia and Philippines

        28. Fiji

        29. Guam and Indonesia and New Zealand

        30. Fiji

        31. Papua New Guinea

        35. Fiji

        37. Mariana Islands and Kermadec Islands

        38. China

        39. South of Macquarie Islands region

        40. Vanuatu

        42. Indonesia

        43. Chile

        44. Peru and North of Vanuatu

        45. Chile

        46. Aleutian Islands

        47. Southern Japan and Papua new Guinea

        Anyone that lives in these areas or has family here needs to be on alert until Dec.1 for a good sized earthquake coming to one or more of these locations.  It could hit somewhere else, but this is not likely as plates don’t move much in decades and the patterns should repeat themselves.  The Size might be a lot bigger and why I said even up to a 8.8.  I think it will probably be 7.3-7.9.

        • I’m sorry… but WTF?

          • Para- Over your head, huh?

        • I’m sorry — but WTF?

          • @ Paranoia will Destroy Ya.  You are probably unfamiliar with the method used to predict future earthquakes. 

            Before a major earthquake, usually, the polar and sub polar regions of the planet are hit with an earthquake or more than one. 

            This is energy focuses away from the future earthquake, a far and away foreshock.  From the past a certain area that is hit you can tell where when that area is hit again, where the future earthquake will occur.  For example when the Balleny Islands area was hit I was able to tell the genarel area where the 7.8 earthquake in Canada was going to be.  Using the present earthquake activity you can narrow it down a bit. 

            I posted before it happened that a 7.3-8.6 earthquake was going to hit, one location I gave was Southern Alaska, the 7.8 was 135 miles off and within the time period given.The areas I concentrate on for these foreshocks to much bigger earthquakes are 68.5-90 degrees north, 58.5-90 south, and 55-57 degrees south.  This earthquake I did not have records for because it was 54 degrees south, so I went through 39 years worth of data to determine if this earthquake yesterday meant anything, it did.  This area has been hit 47 times before in the past 39 years, and out of those 47 times, there has been an earthquake of over 6.5 in magnitude 37 times, that is 78.7% of the time.  many of these have been over 7. I then gave a list of the locations in which a 6.5 earthquake had occurred before, because patterns change very little over time with plates and earthquakes.  In other words where it happened before it should happen again.  By Dec.1 there is a 80% chance, about, of there be a life threatening earthquake to people’s lives, their property and their well being.  In relation to the theme of the SHTF site, knowing ahead of time of a SHTF is invaluable to survival and preparedness.  I consider anything over 6.5 to be a true SHTF event to the people affected by it.  A 7.0 in Haiti killed close to 300,000 people. 

            I post earthquake predictions ONLY because of the past success of the forecasting and to alert people to what is likely coming. I hope you and those out there understand the importance of having a head’s up on SHTF events. 

            Whether it is war, economic collapse, a plague, a natural calamity, whatever, that when someone has advanced warning of it they can plan a lot more accordingly.  SHTF plan is the name of the site, and the PLAN is to be ready, and any advanced warning to something horrible that will happen is part of that plan, at least in my opinion it is.

            • @Be InformedThank you and don’t stop posting!!!!!

        • @ BI and JOG -once again, thank you so much for all the hard work and posting these for us!!!  i truly appreciate how much time this takes away from your day-to-day by researching and then typing it all.  need a bigger word than “thank-you”…..

        • Thanks BI,     Going to go off for a bit to study on this; be back in a bit!

      14. The more competetion you have for the remaining resources, the less your chances for survivial will be.  Your supplies will eventually run out, most people.  The more people looking for food and other needs the worst off you will be.  Like I said before, large cities are vertical death traps, especially for disease after SHTF which will be rampant.  No water in death traps cities as is being shown in New York as people have to haul water up to their homes in tall buildings.  Hurricane Sandy should be a watch up call, should be.

        • The upper floors of tall buildings will be abandoned in a crisis. How does one carry a 5 gallon bucket of water to the 50th floor?

          • 1 damned flight at a time…

          • Yes 5gal bucket of water is aprox 42+ lbs…..Before retireing from my job as a  Visionary Enhansement Engineer, (Window Cleaner) I carried many 5gal pails of water plus another 40 lbs of various equip. up stairways to reach the roof level.

            Wait till they encounter Spiral Staircases!!!…..100 ft tall of spiral and you get so dizzy you can’t remain standing!

            Even when in exallant phys shape and doing regular weight lifting program. after several flights of stairs and you are finished.

            50 Flights?!!!!! NO Way!….Unless you got aprox several hrs time frame.

            45lbs weighs same as 200 lbs real quick……Much eaiser to Repel down side of buildg from ropes and bosens chair equip.!!

            PS: Window Cleaners work…HIGH!!!

        • the size of sandy 7 times over, its comin.  ww3 on the horizon.   shtf has arrived. whatever preps and knowledge you have obtained you will start using them very shortly.

        • I do not believe cities to be death traps.  Look, I’m still fairly young and having grown up in Smallville, USA, I have do desire to ever return.  I enjoy the convenience of living in large cities.  I enjoy the culture of a big city and I especially enjoy the people.  Also, given that I work in Music and Film, living rural just isn’t an option.


          That said, I’m not retarded and have made appropriate plans to leave the city should things, say, heat up.  See, I live on a sailboat near Malibu.  It is pretty much 70 degrees each and every day all year long.  Since sailing is a survivalist sport, all of my neighbors are “preppers” though they do not know it.

          I can create my own electricity, water and I do not need fossil fuels to move around.  We have radios, depth finders, fish finders, radar, first aid kits, maps, charts, and piles of survival gear because 75% of the world is ocean and you may find yourself a long way away from any help should something go bad.  

          If my community suffers some loss of service it wont hurt us right away because we do not need the grid – not at all.  Should things get really bad then we will just caravan away (we’ve discussed this) out into international waters until things calm down. 

          It seems a lot easier than moving to the boonies.

          • You forgot Firearms! Because if recent times are an indication, Pirates can and Will be a huge problem. Especially if shtf. Better obtain one of them Speak Somoli in 12 easy lessons kits just incase eh!

            • The Samali pirate thing could be taken care of quite easily if mariners on the vessals being attacked were even lightly armed. The shipping company owners consider it part of the cost of doing business. One way to get their attention would be when a ship is seized, abduct the shipping company execs and their families and offer a hostage swap. Their extended families would surely pay more for their release than they would for yours or mine.They would give a shit if they knew their ass would be on the line.

      15. I have thought about this quite often, and I have come to the conclusion that I will simply have to stay put. Here’s why:A) I am a schoolteacher… that’s how I make the money to buy my preps. No job means no food reserves, no tools, no ammo, no guns, no fuel, no nothin’  

        It’d be cool to fantasize that I’m a combination of Rambo, McGyver and Davey Crockett, but that’s just what it’ll be: a fantasyB) I can’t drive “two full tanks of gas” each way to my job. Not friggin’ possibleC) Even if I overcame that hurdle, I still don’t have the money to pay on my current residence AND buy or pay on a bug out retreat that’s far enough out in the boonies AND near a water source. I wish I had that money. Hell, I wish I had enough to fund everyone here: money in the bank if enough people with eyes to see can survive this shitD) Without that option, “bugging out” means becoming part of a refugee column. Did I mention that I’m a teacher? Yes I am: I teach history and computer science. I know enough history to know what happens to refugees. Think “Trail of Tears”; or “Bataan Death March” or “the Killing Fields” Running means leaving behind 99% of your gearE) So, I’m staying put. Some will say its dangerous: I could be attacked and somebody could take my stuff. Well guess what: if I run, one group might kill me while another gets my stuff: every bit as bad an outcomeF)

        Plus, let’s face it, if you’re not part of that small town community well before SHTF, then you’ll still be an outsider when it does go down. They will regard you with suspicion, and guess what? they’ll be right to do soG) As far as mobs attacking me: yup, it could happen. Just like the quartet of thugs outside the Walmart just now could have tried to give me shit as I went in to pick up some Ibuprofen (fucking dental work hurts dammit!) There were four of them and one of me. I walked briskly and gave the appearance of someone who would attack if they so much as stepped in front of the entrance when I tried to walk in. It worked and they didn’t say boo. Know why? It wasn’t an appearance: I would definitely have attacked the first one to cross me. They knewH) Napoleon had a saying about how to deal with mobs, something about a “whiff of grapeshot”. Their modern day counterparts are called 12 gauge 00 buckI)

        Mobs are one thing; trained soldiers are another. If men trained in the use of weapons and tactics show up post SHTF, yeah, I’m fucking boned. But then again, they could also show up out in the middle of nowhere too; certainly easier than a mob could. Hopefully, they’ll have better things to do post TEOTWAWKI than attack some loony four eyed teacher nerd. Honestly couldn’t sayThere’s a song out there called “High School Never Ends”, about how people and situations don’t change.

        I think its true: I couldn’t run to get away from bullies in high school, so eventually, I stopped running and started fighting. I may have lost on points, but they got sick of being punched in the throat kicked in the balls and having their eyes gouged at with ball point pens. So they moved on to those who wouldn’t fight backThat’s my story and I’m sticking to it 

        • will you tell me where you are???

          • I live in a small town outside of a bigger town in SC… where are you?

            • between union and spartanburg

            • between spartanburg and union off pacolet river

          • Snake Eater, SonofSam,    “Are we men are or we mice…”. Damn good job with this little thread boys. For the LONGEST time I’ve wrestled with the notion of ‘how’ or ‘if’ to come forth with something, someway of us all being (eventually) able to ‘congeal’, you may have just started something here….    Whoo-Boy, here goes…I am in central Missouri, south of a place called Lake of the Ozarks. I don’t give  a’whack’ if TPTB know I’m here…I ain’y LAYING down for anyone or anything…period    Thanks Guys. To everyone else…this is the day the ‘feet’ get planted. Amen.

            • J1G ~Small world.

              I grew up just a few hours southeast of your location.  Beautiful area.

              ~ D 

              • Hi Daisy,


                   Yes indeed, it is a ‘small world’ isn’t it? Many times I’ve been suprised to discover someone that I know of ‘here and now’ is/was raised at some point all but next to me somewhere in the past, I never cease to be amazed at all the odd coincidences that I – and others – run into in this grand experiance we call ‘life’…He moves in mysterious ways, doesn’t he? 🙂

                   While I’m here I suppose I could take a moment and get everybody upgated on the solar aspects of things. Solar activity has been quite low for about the last 48 hours roughly with nothing energetic occuring above the C-5.0 level. Per VRF below, we did witness a prominence eruption in the wee hours last night but the angle of the ejection was such that the outgoing mass will likely not be geo-effective. At some point below I’ve noted that we jsut saw our first GRB (Gamma ray burst) in over 10 days, said burst apparently being of the ordinary to weak persuasion. The STEREO SECCHI feeds indicate that there is little with which to be concerned for at least the next 5-6 days…no identifieably active regions are visible at this time from the extreme eastern limb all the way back to the -180 degree mark (full solar back-side relative to the Earth) and as such we SHOULD see a period of solar calm for this period. Guess that about covers the bases for that.

                     BTW, I would presume then that you are refering to (approximately) the Sptingfield region, Yes?  Truly the entire region of Missouri IS lovely…I’m going to hate to leave it if a SHTF occurs….but there’s JUST TOO many people within driving distance from my location…St. Louis, KC, Springfield, Columbia and etc. After a fashion it’s OK though…A while ago HE impressed on me – on my spirit – the neccessity to relocate to a more northern clime. I’m NOT saying that this is a precursor to anything…NOT! But He has instilled in me an inneffable desire to get moved to Alaska….my ‘spirit’ yearns to it’s fullest to get there. So, sometime around late May, early June the plans are made and “…Good Lord willing and the creeks don’t rise.” I’ll be heading off into the great white North. Well, it’s been a long day…I’m heading for horizontal land…G’Night all.

                • J1G ~ More towards Memphis – 🙂 What little family we have remaining is in that area – very worrisome.  Of course, I’m the “eccentric” one so they won’t heed any warnings, you know how it goes.

                  Alaska will be quite an adventure! 

                  ~ D

                • @ Daisy,


                     Oops, my ‘Bad’ you said ‘Southeast’ and I read ‘Southwest’…

                  ‘Old folk’s Dyslexia’ on my part! 🙂

                • You’re absolutely right, J1G, in that my caution is based mostly on concern for my children.  I, too, look forward to the potential of getting to know people better through the forums and PMs. We are very fortunate to have this venue!

                  ~ D

            • i dont believe we will make as individuals,,we need others,,for support and to support them.If i`m close enough to son of sam and he needs help i`ll be there,,plus i may have something he needs now or he has something i need,,or daisy or lena or any of you,,united we stand and diveded wwe will fail i think,,,


              • Personally, I have a lot of difficulty with the risk involved in trusting others.  Maybe it’s my natural paranoia, but I’d rather isolate than incorporate, if you know what I mean.  

                I like the idea of a group of like-minded people – I just worry that my child and I will become victims or be taken advantage of. Unfortunately I believe we’ll see a lot of that.

                ~ D

                • Hi Daisy,


                     A whollyu understandable sentiment. I counsel none to take my personal choices as thier own…they are just that, my personal choices. I have – in the last few years – begun to see things more like snake eater and SonOfSam. Those of us reponsible for the ‘little ones’ who will succeed us must, in my opinion, exercise a greater ‘wariness’ than the rest. Of those who remain there comes a point where, to paraphrase SE above, “If we do not hang together then we will surely hang seperately.” So it is

                     I am heartened by the upcoming additions here on the board that Mac is preparing to install….the PM thing alone will be a marvelous extension to those here, enabling – finally – a more direct, ‘pipelined’ access between people…Thank God for Mac!

            • J1G the gov.knows who we are and besides i`m not hiding,,i have been here on this piece of property for 30 years,,owened and operated heavy equipment,,,who knows there might even be a few elephant traps around the property,,i startede preparing in 1996,,go figure snake    

              • Hi snake eater,

                   Too tight Brother. I’m not ‘laying low’…anymore. Comes atime when each of us has to look out at what is and make a decision about how we’re going to explain our actions to the ones following us in the great chain of things. When you and SOS got your thread started above it came to me – probably with a little ‘Higher’ help – that, for me, today was the day. It all comes down to making and sticking with a personal decision. I’ve never been one to require anyone else to ‘walk my way’, frankly, I don’t think that’s actually what ‘He’ wants of us; ‘Each must walk the road…left foot, then right, else how will we know where we have been and so know where we are going.”

                   Oh, BTW….’Elephant traps’, GOOD one! 🙂

                • hey folks i`m not looking for followers just like minded people that may be close,,be a damn shame to down a friend know what i mean,,

                  i`m not asking any of you to trust me,,just like i wont trust you,,but i do this future cant be done alone,,,,

                  this is for  JUSTONE GUY yup and they are awesome,,,

                  now i may step on some toes,,i see this here all the time,,:i`ll stack the bodies up when they come here,,well think about this one tank  round and you are done,,,,,,,,so who`s body will be stacked up,the attack on you may be from the sky one of those drones,,,,,,


            • There is no such thing as the government: its just a bunch of dudes who wanna spend your money and run your life.

              Likewise, there is no such thing as TPTB: just another bunch of guys who wanna push us around, and aren’t particularly “heroic” even when compared to the government dudes. Seriously, just LOOK at them: Ben Bernanke? Timothy Geithner? Chuck Schumer? George Soros? Or look at their counterparts in Hollywood and the media : David Geffen? Jerry Springer? Rachel Maddow? 

              Seriously? THOSE people are the “Powers” that be ? They are the ones that we should cower in front of? Oh frigging Puh-leaze! They aren’t “supermen” or the “master race” or “the chosen people”. They’re not even particularly intelligent or insightful. What are they, besides being clever liars? What power do they have, outside of their little mind games? They are good for NOTHING. “Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain..” does that ring a bell for anyone? 

              • sos i told you where i am are you close????

                • Im in a small town just outside of Charleston… so not very close, but hey its a start 🙂 Btw I’ll be glad as Mac expands this site, it’ll help get us together and get us organized.

              • Hi SonOfSam,

                   Couldn’t agree with you more, point-for-point. These people are cowards…plain and simple. All they succeed at they do by being ‘invisible’; they do what they do ‘in the dark’ so to speak. IF America had ever managed  -someway or how – to ‘shine a light’ on these and thier actions we’d NEVER have gotten to this despicable point. Make no mistake, these ‘cockroaches’ hate being exposed for what they are, thier actions caught out in the bright light of day. Pelosi’s ‘got to pass it to see what’s in it’, makes me want to vomit.

                    When I think of all those who ‘gave thier last, full measure of devotion’ to this wondrous edifice that the Founder’s created I get a cold, cold ‘knot’ of something in my spirit that knows that a reckoning will come for all such…a full accounting. That time is not yet to be sure – many more would have to ‘awaken’ first – and it remains to be seen if that even will happen. In a world of DWTS, ‘Monday Night Football and the MSM who knows…time will tell.

                   Oh BTW, ‘WoOZ’, good reference bud!

        • Sonof Sam…God bless you and your family.  I am with you.”don’t go down without one helluva fight.”

          • You bet I will if it comes to it… I remember one fight from way back in the 8th grade, when I got tagged by three bigger boys. One of them grinned and said “You’re going down faggot”, which pissed me off because I’m not gay and if even I was, he was about as attractive as mac and cheese left out in the sun for a week. So I kicked him in his balls and shouted back “You’re gonna have to celebrate minus your nut sack” while I booked it down the hall. The other two still caught up, and I still “lost” but it was sooooooo worth it.A person has to stand up for their rights!

            • Even though they “won”, the incident probably made them all think about the prospect of being the one who got nut kicked.

              • Exactly… this is why I’m not so worried about a mob. With a mob, you take out the biggest loudmouths instantly and immediately. No trash talk or blustering: just take ’em out. The rest of the mob — stupid though they might be — will take note. Its much more fun for them to pick on people who won’t inflict any serious harm right back at ’em

                • SoS ~ 


                  I was reading a self-defense website recently that said something along these same lines. It said if attacked by a group, always go for the leader immediately. The instructor went on to say that you should attempt to inflict the most visually horrific damage possible in order to give pause to the other attackers – think something immediately awful like fire, acid, dismemberment or gouging the eyes out.

                  Not exactly a cheery prospect but the premise was to base your offense on psychologically disarming the group.

                  ~ D

            • SoS, I’m with ya on the whup ass.  But i’m too old, and hurt too much on a regular basis, to be kickin’ and definitely to be  gettin’ kicked around.  That’s why I have my little piece of hand held heaven.  It’s a 25 auto beretta that I can hold, hidden in my hand inside my pocket.  If and when the need arises, I’m going for the nearest sob with what appears to be a flying fist to the left eye with a cocked and ready to fire mini hand grenade to that eyeball.  As my fist is about to make contact, the little grenade launcher will send a scorching hot piece of lead directly thru his eye and into the brain.  If the next challenger shows a weapon, I’m sending lead and finding cover.  The first won’t be a problem any longer and hopefully with a half dozen pieces of hot lead burning thru the guts of the second one, my ordeal will be over.  Otherwise, I’ve already popped in a new clip and ready for round two.   That’s the plan from here.  And that’s just the plan for away from home/retreat, prior to a SHTF scenario.  In a SHTF situation;  the little woman and i will be hunkered down at the retreat and handling much bigger and louder weapons.  We are preparred to fight to the bitter end.  If in the end, we die;  we plan to take as many of the sobs with us as we can.

              • Don’t tread…If you did that you wont need worry about Perp#2 or #3 etc…..Soon as tyrone sees his bros Head Explode and his brains get splashed on perp#2’s fase and shirt……Game over…..You may get real lucky if its dark out and they are wearing them sneeker shoes that light up with small led lites every step taken!

                If they head for wooded areas for cover, just aim aprox 5 ft Above blinking lites!

                If I was “Boss” I’d do an exec order to require All gangbanger types to must wear such led lighted shoes at all times.

              • Oh I absolutely agree don’t tread…. I always “went overboard” when defending myself precisely because I wasn’t some big “tough guy”…. if I was, they would have probably left me alone. The biggest problem were the bullshit rules set up by the school administration, where all parties in a fight were somehow equally guilty, that I should always “use my words” and their attitude towards bullying was along the lines of “well, boys will be boys” Even at the age of 12 or 13, I knew it was frigging lunacy: the school was NOT protecting me. This is why I always refused to write out apology letters for my “behavior” since I knew I was in the right

                All these years later, and its the same damned thing: a government that doesn’t protect me, my rights, my property or my ability to defend myself. These goddamned politicians expect me to do my “patriotic duty” (thanks Joe Biden, you demented old fucker) and to pay and pay and pay more and more taxes, but they don’t provide jack shit in return. Nothing but bailouts for banksters and big corporations, handouts for the gimme girls and illegal aliens, and endless wars that don’t change a damned thing. (Here’s a thought for any future conflict: if we can’t beat ’em in five years or less, then DON’T do it! I call it the “Third Reich rule”). They can’t help us in any sort of natural disaster: Katrina and Sandy prove this. They can’t protect us from looters or moochers or some daft fucker who wants to pretend he’s “The Joker” and shoot up a theater. yet they keep insisting that we shouldn’t protect ourselves, and that our Constitutional rights to do so are really about hunting.

                So sorry,not buying it, not even renting it


                • SOS thank you,,,if you have to fallback and regroup think hiway 176 west


      16. I just thought some people on here might want to support a petition to impeach Obummer

        • Sixpack, the Impeachment process would not work to remove Obama. The first step is through the House Judiciary Committee. If it passed, the House of Reps might approve an Impeachment but the Senate would not. The Senate has a (D) majority and they would acquit Obama. Now if Obama is explicitly named in the Benghazi ‘cover up’ it might anger a few more (D)s, but don’t hold your breath. Remember, Obama is parting the seas, raising the tides, and is rumored to be walking on water! lol

          • Z…you forgot the part that they won’t even acknowledge it.

            • I don’t think “they” is all inclusive, lastmanstanding. We have a few who seek the truth (or love posturing or grandstanding, your pick). I’ll betcha Sheila Jackson Lee (D) and Maxine Waters (D) pull the race-card if it goes to the Judiciary Comm. Of course, just suggesting that means I’m a racist, not someone who’s watched their insanity for years. Got it. 😉

              • Zoltane, Sheila Jackson Lee is the same dumbass who thinks that there is country called South Vietnam today, and that we landed men on Mars who planted the American flag there. She — and Maxine, and Obama and Jesse Jackson Jr — are nothing more than proof positive that racial quotas in hiring, education and voting are  a fucking waste of time. Real talent will shine through, always; but as for these no talent assclowns, well as Ron White says “You can’t fix stupid”

                • SonOfSam, I hadn’t heard she created SVietnam. Seems to me that she’s visited the capital DangWrong a few too many times.

                  I doubt many here would disagree with the problems Affirmative Action have created.  An unspoken Affirmative Action put The Dark Lord in the WH. How many Progressive “fails” do we need before the lesson is learned?! Argh!

                  In Zoltanne’s Utopia, everyone pulls a shift and you get your merits by doing, not jiving.

              • Isn’t Sheila Jackson Pee the one,  who while watching one of the Mars rovers being driven by remote control, asked “Can you drive it to where the astronauts planted the flag”?

                Makes me less optimistic about any secession action coming from Texas.



          • Obama could be discovered naked, in bed, with 2 teenaged boys and it would not make one iota of difference to the people who voted for him or the Democrats in Congress.  They will support him no matter what.  That’s just how stupid and immoral they really are.

            • The suggestions given by a lot of post are great.  Why ruin it and get sidetracked by bringing up politics?  Romney obama who cares the are all the same.  Let’s stay on topic and quit the crap.  None of the politicians will be the cure to our ills.

          • just my luck…you went and burst my tiny little bubble.

        • Yeah, go put your name on the Dictator’s list.   Smart – real smart.

        • I’m sorry about the double posts, the red error message said there was a problem, so I tried again. I did stumble upon something useful though…It looks to me like Jersey just took advantage of the storm to get 10’s of millions of dollars in infrastructure and transit losses paid for by US, the taxpayer.

          NEW YORK (Reuters) – New Jersey Transit’s struggle to recover from Superstorm Sandy is being compounded by a pre-storm decision to park much of its equipment in two rail yards that forecasters predicted would flood, a move that resulted in damage to one-third of its locomotives and a quarter of its passenger cars.That damage is likely to cost tens of millions of dollars and take many months to repair, a Reuters examination has found.

      17. Hi guysHaving no way to predict the exact time of the boom, we all prepare for the worst case scenario.Our plan is to stay indoors for as long as we can, using our provisions and our defence means.I would love to drive to the safety of my ancestors village, but it’s too far away. We have to drive for more than three hours passing through various terrains, villages, and isolated areas.What we manage to do though, is to come in touch with other preppers in our area. Thank God, a couple of like-minded families, are high school class mates and close friends. We know each other and we gather to one house, along with food and other stuff.Generally speaking, surviving in a big city will be a hell of a challenge.But for an escape scenario, we have the car full of gas all the time. Be safe guys.   

        • manosIt’s been quite some time since we’ve heard from you.Our media has but blacked out and omitted any real news from Europe , Greece except for a small blurb once in a while..and then portrays all of you as angry, selfish, socialist, anarchists who refuse to pay their debts to your benevolent masters.

          The fact that you have found some like minded friends to ride out the storm, and are ok overall.. gives some comfort, at least.!….The practicality of relocating is nearly impossible for most of us in every aspect..given that most of us have not the financial wherewithal..and even if we is at a premium even in remote areas..believe me I have been least Daisy has made the leap quite successfully..If I were to attempt to sell the house my profit would be nearly nil due to a 40% + drop in the real estate market values here..then what?Buy a friggin tent and set up in the woods?..I think not..I love how all these experts tell us , at our expense, how to run away from it all as they sit in their plush studios selling dvds,personal care products, and the like while  living quite comfortably and not relocated themselves in the first place..Let’s be real , the economy is already devastated..40 million are already at the poverty level, the rest of us middle so called class are struggling to make mortgage payments and basic living requirements as our pay has not increased for years and every day tens of thousands more are laid off..never mind the rising food costs etc etc..

          Manos.. could you afford to relocate ,realistically, given your dire circumstances…love to hear your take..Stay well my friend drop me a line  possee   

          • Possee ~ Sometimes I think it’s actually easier when you don’t have a lot of money. I don’t “own” anything but my old truck so I didn’t have to sell a house and potentially take a large hit. Also, I rent where I am now, so that financial output was way less also.   This being said, I would truly love to buy a piece of land where I could build exactly to my specifications!  One day….maybe! 🙂  

            • i wish there was someway we could have a conversation other than here

              • There will be as soon as we get our SSL license installed on the site! Private messaging coming soon!

                • sounds awesome

                • Not a problem Mac

          • I sold my urban property a couple of years ago, when property was losing big time and the neighborhood was going to hell. I decided to rent rural property, so if I have to bail, I’m not losing much.

            I’ve been broke ever since, but, I just got word the accountant found an $8000 error in MY favor! looks like I’m getting that solar generator after all (and a few other previously unaffordable items as well). Can you believe the luck?

            I found a GoalZero solar generator and accessories, does anyone know of any others? Searches come up dry.

            • Unless you plan to carry your solar electric on your back, Goal Zero is a ripoff.   $350 bucks for a 350 watt-hour package?   You can do much better by buying a $125 commercial deep cycle battery at Tractor Supply, and a used APC battery-backup from evilBay, (buy it sans battery!).   I got my APC 650 for $25.00 plus shipping.   It keeps the battery charged, and will output up to 10 amps at 115 vac.   

          • Possee, I lived in a 2 man tent when 20 years old in the hills outside the grand canyon, while pregnant. It is possible. I am 56 now, so it’s much harder physically. Still it is possible.

        • Manos:  WE NEED YOUR INPUT.  Please tell us what’s going on,  Is their bread in the bakery, drugs in the drug store,  Is anyone giving any kind of credit, can you borrow money, at what rate, are the Banks open, any problem with safe deposits, if you wanted a load of coal; could you get it, is the mail being deliverd, is the local cop on duty, are they keepng street lghts or advertsing signs on, are stores open, do they have goods, are the bars open, are the hookers stll in business, are the schools open,  is the trash being picked up, do the gas stations have gas, hundreds of to you mundane things, we really want to know.  See if you can get an article of your own so we won’t miss it.

      18. Here’s a thought, don’t mean to be a jackass, but BeInformed, why don’t you get your own damn website, and stop hijacking threads everywhere with your earthquake paranoia crap? Some of us come here for MAC’s site, not YOURS! Jeezus man, every fricking thread.

        • Many of us, including Mac, from what I’ve seen, really enjoy reading the information BI provides for us.  If you notice the little thumbs, BI tends to get mostly green ones – this means that more people like his information than don’t like it.  Perhaps you could just scroll past it instead of making hurtful comments to someone who provides a service for us out of the goodness of his heart.

          • Daisy — AMEN!!  I actually use “find” to look for Be Informed posts first thing and then read the rest…LOL.   I truly appreciate every second he spends on these endeavors….very good-hearted person. 

            • amen to your amenBeInformedkeep doing what yer doin’most people here very much appreciate your efforts 

              • Amen to infinity – I LOVE what BeInformed tells us – don’t ever stop!!

          • @ Daisy.  Many times someone like this doesn’t understand the urgency of a SHTF event. 

            Before Hurricane Sandy I tried to warn everyone about the pressure being the factor of what was going to happen, to save people that were on this site. 

            While the MSM was talking 6-11 foot surge, I was saying 14-16 foot, and it came in at 13.88.  This was talk about a hurricane on a hurricane article, but it was also someone trying to warn everyone, especially RICH that said this was a weak storm, which by the pressure it was not. 

            I totally respect Mac’s site and would not post something that no one is concerned about.  I think that the shear destructive power of earthquakes that this fits well into planning for SHTF. 

            I know that I irritate certain people over these earthquake predictions, that come true time after time, but because of the interest in this by people that are really concerned I continue to do so. 

            WHEN the San Andreas breaks it affects every last person in this country and Canada and Mexico, and will have a huge impact on the world economy as california has alone one of the top ten ecomonies in the world. All Mac has to do is say to shorten the forecasts or put it somewhere that would not offend certain people that don’t want to prepare for a SHTF event.  I spend many hours trying to figure this out to save lives and people’s well being. 

            Many people, mostly trolls, come on to this site and post pure crap, and what I do is just hit the down button most of the time and ignore it. 

            If people are bothered by someone trying to forecast a true SHTF event, then why don’t thet just ignore it.  Each article I do comment in regards to the article, so I don’t see the problem with some individuals on what I say in addition to this, as most other people do the same with other matters in their life.  It is a blog after all.  

            Thank you for the nice comments. 

        • @ StayinAlive.  The name of the site is SHTF plan.  Being aware of a SHTF event before it happens will save lives and save people from being injuried, and get people ready for something horrible. 

          EVERY single place on this planet can be hit with an earthquake, even yours.  Would you not want to know if an earthquake or other natural disaster is coming beforehand?  IF you are into prepping th answer is an absolute YES.  Do you understand what an earthquake will do to this country in one of the four spots now under almost imminent failure?  The New Madrid, the San Andreas, the Cascadia, the Caribbean plate?”StayinAlive”, when one of more of these faults break it is going to affect the country is a bad way, real bad way.  It will cause economic collapse and could lead to nationwide martial law. 

          If that doesn’t play into the SHTF plan theme, I don’t know what else does. Quite honestly what I know about Earth Science, I severely lack in computer knowledge, and having my own site I would be clueless how to start or even maintain it.  Besides this, there are hundreds, likely thousands of people here that want to know, before a SHTF event occurs. 

          From recent earthquake disasters, I would think that earthquakes are just about in the top 3 of what would be classified as a SHTF event.  Witness 4-5 minutes of intense shaking from the Cascadia fault breaking, and those in the Pacific Northwest would have given just about anything to know beforehand that it was coming. IF Mac ever says to tone down the earthquake information I will immediately do so and totally respect his site, ALWAYS.  I think I remain extremely polite to people here, except for the trolls that frequent the site that all of us try to rid. 

          If you look at past predictions, I don’t see anyone forecasting the size of these earthquakes, the general location, the time frame, on any other word wide web site. This method works, and you can go back and check it out to varify this.  Besides this, I comment a lot on other matters all the time.  

          I am not hijacking a site in which other people that visit the site want to know about a SHTF event that is coming.  Honestly, do you think I would be posting anything that others were not concerned over?

          • BII depend on your posts here!  I live in the Pac NW, and I anxiously scan every single post of yours for your predictins about this area.  Thank you for all your time and your extraordinary effort to predict, inform, educate and prognosticate for us.

            • I second that—I live at the foot of a volcano and look for BI posts.

          • @BI….Just to say Thanx, how many people on this site would actually give up the amount of VALUABLE time to do what you do for us?  And as someone else said earlier……Thank you is just not a big enough word!!  Love your posts….so informative!!!  Keep posting, CC.

          • BI,

            I think you should have your own site…

            I will give aid and assistance to help you set that up… free.

            It would be very informative and give you a place to wax poetic and long about your theories and post pictures and what ever supporting info you could come up with.

            I myself would love to help you, and then, gain the benefit.


          • @Stayinalive,

            I wouldn’t dare tell anyone to STFU, Mac’s red thumbs take care of that very well… even when people think my stuff is ‘weird’…

            The only thing I have to say in my defense, is that Galileo was ‘weird’, Tesla was ‘weird’, the Wright brothers, Einstein, even .. Jesus was ‘weird’ and the biggest Heretic in history.

            A Heretic is merely a man who rejects the status quo and has the courage of his convictions to say it publicly.

            And the status quo is …  FUBAR.



            • @ Piper,


                 “Yep, hit THAT nail right on the head…FUBAR!” 🙂

          • BeInformed

            Sirahh with all due respect, reeding yur Witchcrafty sneaky deception with your Voo Doo mumbo jumbo makes my head want to exploade! Dammit all too Hell!!! yu shouldeapologize to all the good and decent folxs here for your crime instead of bragging abou evil

            God have mercy on yu

            • @ Warload elvis.  The exact same comments were made by those confused over hurricane predictions at the turn of the 19 th. century.  Now it is totally accepted and depended on for survival, and insurance companies also use it to access risks.  Those too ignorant of the past however called science Voo Doo and black magic because they were too mentally lazy to pick up a book or attempt to use their brains.  What I am talking about is not too complex, as the same priciple is used with pocket weather forecasters that are sold all over the country in sporting goods stores.  Use the past to forecast the future because nature follows patterns.

              Again, insurance companies use geological maps to see how much to charge for their protection.  I guess that is Voo Doo mumbo jumbo also isn’t it by your point of view?  By your point of view anyone that brings to the world a new theory about anything has committed heresy and should be burned at the stake or stoned to death.  Get a clue, the reason you have internet access is because people with inventive minds have put science to work for everyone.  With your notions we would be living in caves WITHOUT fire, because fire is an invention that also scared extremely primitive people.

              You say I should apologize for trying to alert people to possible dangers that will affect them???????????   I should apologize for trying to share knowledge and trying to get a new system of predicting earthquakes that one day could save live like hurricane and tornado forecaster has done????????????  Where are you coming from anyway??????????? 

              Calling something that is based on science witchcraft is exactly what I would expect from someone that is based back in the dark ages of true stupidity, or  someone with all their fleas and lice in some muslim country.  Go back to Afghanistan “Muhammad” and go behead someone for religious heresy for talking about science.  May God have mercy on “you Muhammad”, not allah, the real God. 

              • Dear Warlord Elvis:

                It is with great excitement that I write to let you know that the world is NOT FLAT!!!!

                There is something called “science” that allows the educated people of today make “predictions” based on the observed cycles of nature.

                Many of yesteryear blamed all things they did not understand on witchcraft.  Their fear was based on ignorance, as is yours. Mindsets like yours were responsible for horrible episodes of mass hysteria like the Salem witch trials.

                I’m surprised that this “magical” internet does not have you quaking in hyper-religious fear.  Are you completely aware that the voodoo of the internet is allowing you to be in contact with those all the way across the planet?  Be care, it’s a slippery slope!

                I really wish people would stop picking on Be Informed!

                ~ D

                • Oh Daisy,

                     “SLAM-DUNK….50+ Thumbs!!!”  You go girl!!!!!

                • @ Daisy.  Isn’t it incredible how critical and analytical thought frightens certain individuals that have little or no education at all?  The same person will speak of blasphemy about anything that they don’t even try to understand, too much mental effort, yet totally accept all the modern conveniences that centuries ago would have been considered witchcraft.  If someone was to go back in time with a ballpoint pen and write out something it would be considered evil and witchcraft.  Someone could even take apart the pen and show them the tiny little ball that rotated around the ink that came out of the tube that made the ink roll along so you could write out something.  Some individuals would see big money for such an invention and capitalize on it.  Others such as bigload elvis woul;d still call it evil and witchcraft. 

                  The truly frightening part of this is that individuals like this, if they are in this country and not in Afghanistan bowing down to allah and chanting verses from the Quran, is that they interact with the public each day.  Pity the person driving next to this person that somehow obtained a driver’s licence.  Pity the candidate that gets a vote from this individual.  God help the poor person that is on trial and this sub-imbecile is on the jury. 

                  This type of individual would see Halley’s comet in the sky and go around their village terrifying everyone that some sky God was coming to take them and all firstborn child.  There is truly a reason where they get the term “village idiot” from.

                  You know Daisy, I have even speculated that someone from the government might not want the public to know about new theories and means of forecasting events based on science and simple past records.  However I would think they would try to disprove such a new means of forecasting earthquakes by playing hard core devil’s advocate rather than looking so incredibly inept like elvis is. 

                  I totally enjoy reading the truly well thought comments here, there are some really intelligent people here that also have a lot of good old fashioned common sense.  Then you have trolls that just try to annoy people for their plaesure.  Then there are the truly stupid, and I mean stupid.  I am extremely kind to the mentally retarded that have a brain injury or have been born that way, as these poor people are handicapped and deserve the utmost compassion and empathy. 

                  An individual that is just plain not as dumb and stupid as mud, but actually much stupidier than mud because they make a choice not to use their brains, there is no excuse at.  The prisons are full of these losers that would rather act like a rabid gorilla than try to use their brains that are fully functional.  Unless someone has a brain injury or been born that way, someone that chooses to be stupid is just plain a dumb sh^&.  “Warload elvis”, if you do have a brain injury and are not responsible for your actions, then I feel for you.  If you are just plain stupid as manure, then I give you this bit of advice, go back to the 2nd grade where they can teach you to spell for one thing.  Folks is not spelled folxs, explode is not spelled exploade, should doesn’t have an “e” at the end of it, reading is not spelled reeding, about has a “t” on it, your is not spelled yur.

                  Daisy, you know what, after reading this spelling I am wondering if elvis is a muslim from an islamic country that is trying to learn the English language.   It has me thinking that no one is this stupid unless they do have a brain injury or they belong to some cult that prevents them from using their minds, like muslims often do.  Anyway thank you for coming to my defense and to the defense of rational clear thinking of everyone.  🙂

            • Hi WE!,

                  Had a bad spot of milk with your breakfast cereal this morning? Those in this place enjoy a variety of opinion ‘Sirrah’…even yours. However, it remains to be seen just who does and who does not ‘have the right of it’ so to speak. The long trail which leads from ‘Al-Jabr’ to Benjamin Franklin to Messr. Einstein is a long and complicated path which to this day is yet unfinished, incomplete.

                 IF you’re not inclined to someone else’s opinion, bypass it, “Move on Folk’s…Nothing here to see.”, Eh? Otherwise promote something – of your own – that is demonstrably superior…else move along to ‘greener pastures, as it were…..



                 At BI, Whoo-Boy! I see THIS guy’s comments getting 50 ‘red-thumbs’ before 4:30 today…this might be record breaking!!!

        • So, staying alive, we should stick to YOUR theory on when TSHTF?  What about all the people on here who think it’ll be a natural disaster???   Good grief, how hard is it to scroll down, 1 second???

        • Don’t ya just feel like a jackass for sayin’ that; StayinAlive?

        • He’s right. No reason to worry about earthquakes, they are completely unpredictable, and just “bumps in the road”.


           What a scrotum breath.

        • Wow, you accomplished what you didn’t mean to by not even trying, jackass.

        • @ StayinAlive.  Got to thinking about SHTF events and to what causes the most worldwide fatalities during the 21 st. century, here are some facts from Wikipedia and the World Almanac:

          Other than famine and disease that have always killed more people than any event.

          Earthquake deaths 695,773-862,773.

          2001- 7.7- India- 20,085, – Total for year- 21423

          2002- 6.1 Afghanistan- 1,000- Total for year- 1,617

          2003- 6.6 Iran- 27,000-31,000- Total for year- 29,788-33,788

          2004- 9.1 Sumatra mega quake- 230,000-300,000- Total for year- 230,813-300,873.

          2005- 7.6 Pakistan- 80,000-87,000- Total for year-81,971-88,971

          2006- 6.3 Java- 5,782- Total for year- 6,534

          2007- 8.0 Peru- 519- Total for year- 623

          2008- 7.9 China- 69,197- Total for year- 69,647

          2009- 7.5 Indonesia- 1,115- Total for year- 1,741

          2010- 7.0 Haiti- 230,000-316,000- Total for year- 233,733- 319,733

          2011- 9.0 Japan- 15,870- Total for year- 17,027

          2012, so far,- 6.4 Iran- 306, Total for year so far- 796

          Above totals reflect worst earthquake each year and size of it. Even 6 pointers kill a lot of people.

          Total deaths for Hurricanes, typhoons, blizzards and other storms for 2000-2011.

          140,257 deaths

          Total deaths for floods and tidal waves for 2000-2011

          248,733, includes tsunami of 2004

          As you can see StayinAlive, even for flooding, there are hundreds of thousands of more people that die from earthquakes than any other SHTF event than of course famine and disease, which I could not find accurate totals for. 

          On the site that is titled SHTF plan, I guess the one number most dangerous event in the world that more people have died from in the 21 st. century are earthquakes.  That makes this an important subject to be aware of if someone is PLANNING to survive natural disasters as well as manmade catastrophes like war, civil unrest, martial law, economic collapse, etc.. 

          I don’t know about you, but I sure appreciate all of those that alert us to possible solar problems that will produce an EMP that makes life hell for most people on the planet, and those that know about supervolcanoes that could end civilization as we know it.  Or those other people that can enlight us about a deadly plague, like the ones you see in science fiction movies.  I really appreciate all the people that spend their free time and contribute valauable information and ideas on better survival tactics for what is coming. 

          • Enough with the history , it wont matter, focus on more constructive info.

        • StayinAlive,

          Lets see, over 18,000 viewers on this site and counting, just one ass complaining, I would venture to say that you are outnumbered!

      19. Hi Manos.  Good to see you’re still kicking.I’m staying put.  I live far enough out in the sticks that I should be good.  If push comes to shove, I’ll defend what I have right where I’m at.  I’m not running, that’s for damn sure.  

      20. From someone who has made a big “strategic relocation” I’d like to add some things based on personal experience.

        ~ First, unless you’re independently wealthy, you need to establish a way to make a living before you relocate.  

        You don’t want to spend all your money moving only to discover your idea to knit llama wool sweaters will not support you.

        ~ Second, change your financial expectations.  You will NOT make the same paycheck that you made in the city.  (Okay, maybe you will, but I sure don’t.)  However, your expenses will be less if you opt for a simple lifestyle.  Figure in the extra time that you have available out of the city rat race and use that time productively to improve your standard of living.  Garden, forage, chop wood, build, raise livestock, fish, hunt – all of those things save money, which means you require less earnings. Plus you’ll see great benefits in your health.

        ~ Recognize that it’s really expensive to move like this.  Whatever you think it’s going to cost, add several thousand dollars to the cost.  Something big always comes up.

        ~ Next, most people you know, unless you are from an enclave of hardcore preppers, will think you’re nuts and try to talk you out of it. I recommend not sharing your plans with friends and family until you’ve firmly made your decision.  It’s hard enough to make a move like this without people casting doubt on your plans.

        ~ Finally, downsize.  You don’t need all the “stuff” you needed in the city.  Let that “stuff” remain in the city – sell it on Craigslist or have a yard sale and use those funds to help with your move.  Plan for a simpler lifestyle once you have moved and rid yourself of all the detritus that clutters up your home and mind.I’m very glad that we have made the move we did.  It’s definitely been eye-opening but I feel a greater sense of security being out of the suburbs of metro-Toronto.  However, this is not a move that everyone can make – there are a lot of variables that make it less than feasible for many.  When I lived in the city, I planned as well as possible for the setting that I found myself in.  “Bloom where you’re planted.” Don’t be discouraged by your location – just make the best of the resources you have, identify your weak points and figure out how to overcome them.  That’s what a real “survivalist” does – they survive.

        ~ D

        • Daisy,Good post!  All relevant and practical suggestions!

        • Good info, Daisy.  I just want to add this.  The part about “you don’t need all that stuff you needed in the city” can pertain to a lot of our lives, no matter where we are at.   Get rid of the excess baggage and all the fru-fru stuff.  That bedroom full of Boyds bears and cabbage patch dolls aint gonna be worth spit when SHTF; unless you cut them apart and maybe sew a quilt out of the material.

           The point is; as you well know Daisy, for anyone that makes the move to the country/mtns. for the first time; You will need a pickup load of hand tools and stuff for “back to basics” survival.  If anyone is gonna make the change, you will need an extra thousand dollars for items you haven’t even thought of yet.  A used hoe (not the street corner type), and an axe, won’t begin to get it done.

      21. my guess is that wtshtf there will be an  initial period of numbing shock to those who have still refused to get prepped in any way – that is the time for those of us who can to go to ground and naturally during the warning time prior if there is any…  

        so very manyof the unprepped will either not get help at all or too little too late… 

        in review of the news, as the Sandy drama continues to roll, few have even the basic drive to do on their own/survival instinct and those that do are likely already gone and not a part of the clowncluster in the stricken areas…  my point is there will be what i will call an Initial Massive Die-off and it will be concentrated most naturally in the urban areas… the question comes: just how quickly will this happen..?  i believe that the arrival and progress of such a consequence is directly related to the type and expanse of “the event(s)”…  be assured that it will NOT take place overnight nor even in a week or 2 except in the event of some kind of armed offensive which is not likely at this point …  think with me: how could ANY organization – fed or private – adequately respond to any large scale socio-economic upheaval/disaster and there not be consquential deaths..?  tptb have proven that they haven’t the resources, organization nor inclination to provide any meaningful, tangible assistance in 2 fairly localized disasters(Katrina & Sandy)… 

        the occurrance of a broader, deeper event will break the fed’s already miserable efforts… along with the IMD will come the eventual need for massive corpse removal efforts – meaning removal of assets currently providing survival basics to those still alive and needy…  disease will eventually enhance the IMD(think Haitian earthquakes)… one possible defense will be for tptb to torch entire areas to stop the spread of diseases…  mass graves will not be a widespread option in most urban areas due to lack of open lands, transportation and personel…  the “lack of anti-virals” during the false-flag flu “pandemic” is proof they won’t be able to inject everyone to keep them minimally healthy… i suspect the “rescue workers” will be the first to get immunized following the elitists… now, think trash, vermin and more disease…from this scenario only the most determined and hardened will emerge from the cesspools of the urban areas to roam the sparsely populated places and attempt to pillage where many will contract ILPD or Instantaneous Lead Poisoning Syndrome… 

        some will argue, “the gangs, boss the gangs are coming.” to which i reply eventually but not until they can no longer obtain from the cesspools due to military or natural restraint(meaning disease)…   in fact, i see some of the gangs being manipulated by tptb much like our military uses the taliban and al qaeda assets in the middle east – thier information, services and “loyalty” are outrightly purchased… 

        there may be a select and very small percentage with any strategic and/or tactical forethought to begin scouting possible future resources prior to their need but their greed for things and local power will prohibit the vast majorty from thinking too far ahead of the curve until it’s too late and they too are swept up into the camps… 

        bottom line:  the cities will be virtul death zones for those caught within…  

        few will survive for long outside of the camps even if they are prepped because tptb will be relentless and dogmatic about going house to house to remove those that did linger due to their preps as well as confiscating those same preps…   

        the urban “bug-in”-er  will need alternative locations with preps just for evasion purposes…basically, do what you can NOW to be as secure as you can while working toward a future, more secure goal – OUTSIDE OF AND AWAY FROM any urban center… pray for the best, prep for the worst…  my best to all

        • now, think human waste, no water, no sewage, port-a-potties overflowing……….  get prepped, folks

          • @ Prepping Preacher

            I saw a toilet seat that mounts to your vehicles receiver hitch.  I really thought that was  a great way to dispose of human waste; 65 mph going down the highway, with not a care in the world.

            Unfortunately, it suggested that it not be used when the vehicle is in motion!  : )



            • could be a viable option when one is considering culling the personal herd of in-laws…  LOL

            • nailbender

              bud i`ll drive while you use it,,,hahahahahahhaha

              • Aww funny, smile, but they do have composting toilets now, that last a lonnggg time. Id like one for camping and prepping.

      22. An elderly lady in our tiny town has a reoccurring dream of masses of people pouring into our small valley from the large cities. Spooky!!

        • Note from Idaho:I would consider what this woman dreamed important, because:”‘In the last days, God says, I will pour out my Spirit on all people. Your sons and daughters will prophesy, your young men will see visions, your old men will dream dreams.”  Acts 2:17   I live in a little valley, too, and we (neighbors) have decided that if it comes to that, we will “plug up” both ends to keep people out.  You can think of what you might need to do to accomplish that. 

          • Most might think that GOP??forever?

            Hmmmm, I’ll have to think about that one,….but I am with you in that assessment; I visit the Steve Quayle link each week to read one section:


            Dreams and Visions.  I believe, I really do.

            • The Spirit Was poured out on Pentacost 40 days After Christ had arisen. To believe the Holy Spirit needs be again poured out?…Why? did it get Used up already?….Or wear out so fast?….Or was it not sufficent enough back then?……No, it Was poured out and avail for Every person who desires it. Wont be any need for “another” pouring out!…..Once lasts Forever! never gets used up!…….Try some! you will like it!…..The One item in This world thats 100% GOOD! zero evil!

              The “Last Days” actually is a time frame which Began when Jesus gave up His ghost on the cross. That also Began And Confirmed the Second or NEW Covenant….The NEW Testement is the testement or testimony of this all.

              Last days, Latter days….All began back Then nearly 2000 yrs ago. We are living in the Grace of God time frame. Untill Jesus returns. Then begins total end of This age, and a totally New age…The Milienial Reign of Christ. Lord of Lords and King of Kings.

              And Woe to them what refuses or snikers at this stuf then eh!

      23. I’ve read his stuff before and while his security ideas are good I disagree with his evaluations of individual states.  I chose geographically detached area in the lowest population zone, where water is so plentiful it springs right up out of the ground, wood coal and natural gas are plentiful, crops need neither fertilizer nor irrigation, and there is so much wild game it is considered a nuisance.He gave it a 5 out of 10. He either needs to get out and visit places before rating them or myopia is keeping him from seeing the big picture. At least we won’t have a bunch of city slickers moving in because of him.

        • Pp where r u, we r looking for a place like that? If u dont want to tell everyone here can u email me? Ill wait for your response. Thank u. Blessings.

      24. I’ve read his stuff before and while his security ideas are good I disagree with his evaluations of individual states.  I chose geographically detached area in the lowest population zone, where water is so plentiful it springs right up out of the ground, wood coal and natural gas are plentiful, crops need neither fertilizer nor irrigation, and there is so much wild game it is considered a nuisance.He gave it a 5 out of 10. He either needs to get out and visit places before rating them or myopia is keeping him from seeing the big picture. At least we won’t have a bunch of city slickers moving in because of him. 

      25. I used to live in an apartment building in NYC, more than one, actually. Most buildings have monthly meetings. If yours doesn’t, start one. Organize the residents of your building on how to respond to another Sandy. I’m sure this is being done now; you’d be surprised to know how resourceful city people can be.I just finished Skousen’s book. One of its main advantages to prepper types is that he was researched areas within all 50 states and parts of Canada so you don’t have to.

      26. Im semi rural, so instead of running away from here, I made a place to hide on my own property, you’d never even know its there, and I can keep an eye on my house at the same time.If the safety of my home gets breeched, than its out to the hide out..where i can come back to the home if necessary at a later time, or when a threat leavesIts one of those live to fight or die another day kinda things

      27. Psalm 31: 1 -3In you oh Lord I put my trust;Let me never be ashamed;Deliver me in Your righteousness.Bow down Your ear to me.Deliver me speedily;Be my rock of refuge, A fortress of defense to save me. For You are my rock and my fortress;Therefore, for your name sake, lead me and guide me.

        • Amen!

      28. We are so close to the edge that I think that anyone who has not relocated from our urban areas will have to rethink what they need to do. Most don’t have the resorces to make such a drastic move. My situation is good, rural, limited access, independent water and sewerage system,long time dependable neighbors. None can be totally prepared for what is coming,just trust in God.

      29. 600 miles away from any place with more than 50000 people.  Where are you? Either in the middle of the ocean, Alaska, or Canada. 

        Forget the lower 48. Even in places like Montana and Idaho you are probaly withen 600 Miles of a city of that size. You are probaly withen 300 miles of one.  

        The first 30 to 45 days would be the most important and that depends on the weather. In the middle of a harsh winter or hot summer would be less than that before you have a mass die-off from drinking contaminated water , freezing, or overheating. I carry a good 30 day supply of food with me at all times so I won’t starve to death anytime soon.  Personally, burning wood for heat or cooking would be a bad idea during this time since it would be a great way for people to find you so make sure you have other items such as hand warmers, lots of clothes, and propane since there would be no smoke. Also, plenty of food that you could eat without heating up. Save the wood for after the die-off.  The city I live in has a population of 6000. My county has around 55000 with a land area of 500sq miles. It is mostly rural. However, the cities of Kingsport ,TN,Bristol TN/VA, and Johnson City,TN has a combined population of 150000+ and they are all withen 35 miles of me so I have mixed feelings about staying should SHTF hit. However, with kids age 2 and 4 its not like I can go hang out in the woods either. 

        Their are alot that face similiar problems.  My solution is to come together with family.  My brother is ex-military so he has the fire-arms and ammo.  I have food and other supplies and enough fire-power to defend myself if need be for  a while.  Also, I drop hints to my neighbors to prepare so they will become an ally instead of a enemy should something happen.  For instance, I planted over 11 fruit trees this year in addition to my other 7 apple trees. 

        My neighbor made a commit about them so I told my neighbor that were on sale at Lowe’s trying to get him to see the light that having a few trees would be a good idea.  Hopefully, if given enough time for the trees to mature before anything happens, I could feed several people including my family. That is the plan anyway. 

        Hang low for as long as possible, have strength in numbers with family and friends, and if need be defend against the rest once they find us.

        • EastTenn, the area you speak of would present problems to most roamers/zombies because of the mountains. The majority of roamers/zombies would follow the Interstate and feeder roads — they would not hike in deep woods or over mountainous terrain. Remember that the average person (or the dumbed-down sheeple) will not elect to take the road less traveled, much less the heavily wooded mountain. In your area, as with a number of places with rough terrain, I don’t believe the 600-mile radius applies.”..plenty of food that you could eat without heating up. Save the wood for after the die-off. ”  <– Excellent. A very important point that few think about!

      30. The Crux?God loves you. Don’t worry and take care of the ones that you love.

      31. We’re bugging in and are prepped for months.  I have tried to visualize every possible scenario and am planning accordingly.  I will continue my quest until that moment happens.  I have accomplished a lot, yet have so much more I want to do.  We are not alone in our efforts.  If not for prepped neighbors we would have sold the home instead of refinanced and found our little spot out of the city.  We plan to lay low and be vigilant.  Bugging out of the city there are too many unknowns, the gridlock, never knowing what is around the corner or at the next intersection.  I am aware of my resources and back up plans at home.  Without divulging too much information, we are pretty fortified and secure (at the moment).  Thanks Mac, for allowing us all a portal to assist in what will one day be a very ugly situation for all of us.  Godspeed, everyone.  

      32. it is going to hit the fan.reading hazlitt’s conquest of poverty and this is what happens to societies that dont restrain themselves from just consuming and spending everything there is to have, they 1709, france lost 1 million of its 20 million population because of famine. russia used to be a big exporter of food before communism.anyone thinking the world today is immune from the same threats of worldwide food shortages just because we have electricity and indoor plumbing isnt realistic and paying attention to the US agriculture news. it may not happen, but the world is setting up for probably 10 years that could make the great depression seems easy. i hope we avoid it, but the world leaders just keep making it tougher not to.

      33. I think if the rule of law is still functioning even if it is martial law then holding out in the city may be an option if you have a large supply of preps.  Once the rule of law breaks down then being in a city is a death trap either from disease or gangs and eventually your supplies run out.  With no way of resupply you will have to bug out eventually to become self sufficient.  On the other hand being a complete loner in the back country also has its drawbacks as you are vulnerable to anyone that can hit a target from a distance.  It seems to me that a small community that is self sufficient has the most advantage.  Able to band together for protection and help each other if someones crop fails or goat dies etc. like a backup for your own preps.  If a person has sufficient arable land why not take in some roving families to farm that land and make a community that will defend the little that they have and create a buffer zone for yourself.

      34. my personal shtf arrived. My hubby was just laid off. y preps are not near complete. I have to bag installing my wood stove as we have no money to install it. We would have had the major parts of our preps done by the 1st of the year and now will be tapping into my food supply.

        get ready to all those that still can prep it has creeped its way into our lives. It has arrived. We are only a short time away form it really being felt by ALL. Manos glad to hear from you, I still pray for you and yours. I pray that my hubby finds a job. I have not posted in awhile as I was sick with pneumonia. I am glad to see everyone on here.

        PLEASE PLEASE know that if you are not in a goverment job supported by a union a regular company especially with O care will be laying off to offset costs. PLEASE get your major preps in order if you can. 

        I may not be on much due to gardening etc as best as I can.  It is sad that this happened near the Holidays with lil ones. Those of you who beleive please keep us in your prayers. We did have a freind give us a propane fireplace for an alternate heat source. It is not wood but it is cheaper than our electric heat. We will add plastic to our windows etc to keep costs down. Please any helpful information to keep our electric bill down would be appriciated. We have no cahs reserves we are broke after paying this months bills.

        We actaully would have been ahead with cash in savings (buried in the yard) by the middle of Jan but now it will not happen. I am scared and yet ready to face whatever comes our way fighting for what we can. Sell your home and get a trailer if need be no mortgage, get off the grid as best as you can. I begged hubby 2 years ago but he would not do it so here we are.

        Please OWE nothing. God Bless each of you and best of wished to you all.

        •  sorry to hear about all your troubles, but at least youre preparing for it; you’ll be okay since youre on are right, it is here. i look at the drudge report and its evident every day now. it just hasnt hit the US like a shovel to the face yet, but it will. 

        • Hang in there, JustInCase!  Thinking of you!

          As far as reducing electricity costs, a few tips:

          ~~Wash some of your laundry by hand instead of using the washing machine

          ~~ Hang everything to dry

          ~~ Rely more on canning than freezing to preserve your food, you may be able to unplug your deep freezer.

          ~~ Unplug all items that are not in use to reduce “phantom” draws.

          ~~ If your cookstove is electric, cook numerous things at a time; never just bake one item.  Always bake an oven full of food.

          ~~ Figure out a way to spend your evenings that does not require every light in the house to be on, gather the family in one room and center you activities there.

          ~~  Heat one main area of the house to a comfortable level and allow the rest of the home to be cooler than is comfortable. Use old-fashioned, non-technological solutions for staying warm in those parts of the house.

          ~~  You’ve likely thought of all of these things but I hope something can be of help.  Very best of luck to you.
          ~ D




          • Turn your electric water heater down to a lower level.  Unplug the big freezer.  Get rid of the heated waterbed.  Turn off unnecessary baseboards at the breaker box.  Swap the porch lights with fluorescent or LED lights.  Get religious about turning off lights when leaving a room.  Lighting is only about 15% of your power bill, concentrate on the heat and heating water.   Unplug anything that is not in immediate use except refrigerator and the water heater, all the chargers, TV, stereo, etc., plug it in when you use it.  Wear sweaters indoors and don’t allow the kids to play with the thermostat, make ’em dress warmly.

        • justincase,I am so sorry to hear this.  While a shock to anyone, as a prepper you are ahead of most other families. Unplug any applicance that is not being used on a daily basis – such as lights, clocks in a guest room or an extra TV downstairs.  Every little bit will be a savings in your electric bill. If you don’t have a timer, be sure to turn the heat down at night.Cook with a crock pot, instead of using the oven.  I usually am able to cook enough for 2 meals in the crock pot.  I refrigerate the left overs and have another meal later in the week.If the children are old enough to understand the situation, talk to them about it.  Not to scare them, but to reaffirm that “we are still a family, but we will have to do things a little differently for a while.”  It may help them when they are included in the discussion.  Ask them if they have any suggestions that might help to conserve energy, low cost ways to have fun, etc. Take care.  I will pray for you and your family.Sincerely,KY Mom

          • @ Ky Mom.  I want to thank you for all the links about computer viruses and China.  You offer much to this site.  Yesterday I was so interested in getting to the figuring out of what that one earthquake on the Pacific Antarctic Ridge was going to mean, that I could not get back to you post yesterday.  I am actually a little concerned over the Sun.  As you probably read before that I wrote, the Carrington Event was 153 years ago, and next year it will be 154, the 14 th. cycle of 11 years.  So 2013 could be a real problem with the solar activity. I so much appreciate when someone such as yourself and the other many people that try to alert us to possible catastrophic events that could affect us all immediately.  It is so essential in disaster preparing that people get a heads up jump on what is coming, it gives people that know, or at least suspect something coming, an advantage.  Besides this, even to those that don’t prepare like they should, if they suspect an earthquake, a tornado, terrorism, enemy attack, an EMP, whatever, they can try to safeguard what they have the best they can and maybe get that second or two second jump that can save them. As long as it is OKAY with Mac, I would like to continue to post what i see as warnings whenever I see them, and I hope like yourself, others also do to.  If someone sees something like over in the Middle East happening, it would be nice to be alerted to it before it hits the news. 

            • Be Informed,

              Thank you for your kind words.  When I read about something that I think might be helpful or of interest to other like minded folks (those who prepare), I pass along that information.  Unfortunately, that means I am often off topic.

              Thank you for all the research you do and the valuable information you provide us about earthquakes!!  

              Take care! 


              KY Mom












          • Another thing that adds cost to that electric bill is having several things drawing wattage at the same time.  Example: the electric heat unit/heat pump is running, the water heater is going, the electric stove/oven is on and the dryer unit is drying clothes.  Go outside and see how that meter is flying like a frisbee.  It kinda works exponentially.  In other words, if you used all those same appliances/units individually to accomplish the same results/jobs; you would have used less energy/electricity than having them all running at the same time.  It may not be much, but it does add up.

             Solution: If your breaker box is where you can get to it fairly easily, cut off the water heater until just before someone is going to shower.  I’m on a 220 volt water pump system so if the water heater is going along with the water pump, the meter flies.  If those two are going and the clothes dryer,also 220 volt, is going at the same time, the darn meter looks like its going to spin off the axis and bust thru the glass into outer space.  So you see, you pay more for all that “convenience”.

             As a rule of thumb, the less you can have drawing wattage at the same time, the less it will show on your meter.  I dry clothes after everyone has gone to bed and all lights/TVs/etc. are off.  i keep a note pad handy where I’ll see it and plan my water heating accordingly.  It takes some getting used to but it sure has made a difference in the electric bills.  We also try to keep anything not in use “UNPLUGGED”.   They are vampires if there is juice running thru that electrical cord, it is costing you pennies a day.  Those pennies make dollars sooner than you think.  Most people don’t worry about a few extra dollars every week that they contribute to the thieving “power companies”, but when you are looking for every dollar to count towards keeping that electricity coming, it sure as hell counts up.

            • Not true.  Go find an electrical engineer and tell him power adds up ‘exponentially’ and see what he says.

              • Yea I know, I’ve heard it all before.  I’ve got a friend that was the “chief electrical engineer” for the “Southern Company” (Georgia Power) who engineered and put into place, two electrical components that are still in use today.  One of those devices has three patents, including an international patent.

                  I don’t think i need to “find” an electrical engineer; besides, the proof is in my electrical bills.  Find someone else to call a liar.

                • I wasn’t calling you a liar, just ignorant.  Now I’m calling you a fool. 

                • @  Un….. Southron

                   Well it is evident to me and others that you are a person that likes to stir up shit for the sake of nothing better to do.  If you read correctly you would see that I said “kinda works”…..

                   You are the ignorant fool and most likely a troll that works for the evil ones that rip off people with the outrageous electric bills.   You know the ones I’m talkin about.   The so-called “power companies” that have cut off electricity to the elderly and caused them to freeze to death.

                   Anyways, I have troublemaking neighbors like you.  When SHTF I’ll be the one helping the little children and the shut in elderly in the neighborhood while they just want to take shit from people and stir up trouble.   To quote from an old redneck friend of mine…. “people like that can rot”…/ “I wouldn’t piss in their ass if their guts were on fire”.

                   Take your attitude and shove it U…S..!

            • One thing that works great is battery operated clocks etc, instead of electricity. Rig up whatever u can to a battery. Garden for food. Keep the faith, be thankful. Blessings.

        • justincasecould you give us a tip where you are???

        • Some of my mad ideas for keeping fuel bills down.

          1. Kids can share baths/bath water below a certain age and you do not need 2x showers per day. I’m not saying be dirty, and stinky just be sensible.

          2. Bubble wrap makes great window insulation. Make some nice thick lined curtains.

          3. Use old laddered ladies tights to make snake shaped draught excluders for the bottoms of doors. Fix Heavy fabric on a rod behind you front door if it is draughty, or you have one of those homes with people coming in and out all the darn time. Draughts are the devil for a warm winter home.

          4. Rubber Hot water bottles, (make covers for those with poor circulation or young children) are a cheap low tech alternative to electric blankets. Alternatively make home made microwave dried wheat bags (add a lil dried lavender to help little children sleep).

          5. Turn the thermostat down a few degrees – it’s not good for your health to have a home like a tropical jungle while living in Northern climes. Hats, gloves and warm socks indoors + flannel pjs – save the silky negligee for the summer months.

          6. Heat a thermos flask in the morning and pour from that instead of constantly using the electric kettle during the day. (I often cook hotdogs in a thermos for winter picnics, rather than eating out with kids) Cook using your crockpot or haybox rather than the oven. Luckily this style of cooking is well suited to the flavoursome but cheaper cuts of meat. If you do use the electric oven then fill it up with several items, eg put a tray of brekkie muffins in on the bottom shelf while doing a roast dinner etc.  Your microwave uses less electric/fuel than the main cooker – get hold of a good cook book from the library for steamed puddings etc made this way. (I even make a mean quick strawberry jam in the microwave for small batches, it’s an overlooked cooking method in many homes).

          7.  Wrap silver cooking foil around large sheets of cardboard and then tuck them behind your raidiators. The silver foil will reflect heat back into the room – for most people this means you can turn the therostat down a couple of degrees while not noticing any difference in the temp of the house.

          8. Unplug appliances such as computers and TV’s when not in use – don’t let the meter keep ticking on standby.

          9. Use old school clothes airers rather than your tumble dryer – these EAT electric. Yes this means you’ll have to plan your laundry but an airer in every bedroom will mean family members become responsible for ensuring they don’t go to school in damp shirts given time ; )

          10. Blankets and throws on the sofa’s are nice to snuggle up with on cold nights.

          11. I have an issue with the length of time it takes for those daft modern EU approved eco light bulbs to properly illuminate my spiral staircase so I use solar fairy lights wrapped around the banisters – safer stairs all night and no worry re the leccy bill.  (My dyspraxic son sleepwalks). Visitors just assume I’m slow/late with Xmas decs lol!  Looking into solar lighting for other areas – eg security etc, as I’m sure I could reduce my bills further with a little creativity in this area + it’s all prepping too.If you google there’s a wicked US site called hillbilly housewife that has all sorts of clever household tricks, from patterns for using up scrap materials to make home made sanitary protection to recipes for what to do with Angel foods offering. It’s US centric so do take a look as that lady has helped me out of a few scrapes in the past &

          I’m in the UK.For a fun Xmas for skint families  – we pick a historical period every year to imitate. It stops me going madly over budget for my child and injects a real element of fun into the proceedings for any richer visitors. It’s also useful prepping training  if you do it right, as we always pick up an additional skill or two along the way about life sans electric. I’m sorry this has happened to you just before the holiday season – what a downer.

        • Just in CaseWe will add you to our prayer list.  God will come through for you, most likely in a way you are not expecting!!   

        • maybe invest in propane heaters/cook stoves…  oil lamps can be run on #1 kerosene or tiki lamp oil or citronella oil…  hard to know exactly how to help without you baring your soul and i’ve no interest in taking anyone’s dignity…  Lord knows enough of that is done daily in just living these days…  i and those i know of like mind and heart will be praying for you and yours…  clean stainless steel drums can be converted to wood-burning stove for heat with conversion kit under $50…   just tossing ideas out… 

          • Battery candles are great also.

        • @ justincase,    God Bless you too Hon, and your husband and family also. Try to have faith…it’s always darkest just before His light shines down upon us.

        • Prayers up for you justincase.

        • First, let me say I will pray for your husband and that your illness will not last–we moved from our hometown of 57 years to a new house to find my dh had no job either–for one year to survive, we sold a 4-wheeler, my 37 MPG car, and our motorcycle after the savings from the sale of our house was depleted..and not one person here asked if we needed help. We had no dependents and it made it easier. We never became delinquent on the mortgage–close, but the Lord always sent help in one way or another. I even was so afraid of losing the house, I took ALL things from the walls, and filled in with Spackle and painted–never did put those things up again!!!

          Like you, we had started prepping and food was no problem…Thank you Jesus!!

          We have propane heat–I can live with the dust bunnies for such an efficient and feasible mode of warmth. I turn down the water heater unless we are showering, cook all I can on the electric grill outside under the porch(yes, sweet potatoes are delicious) instead of using the oven, line dry all my clothes inside or in front of the heater. My bill in October for a 2400 sq ft house was $78. 🙂 These things may not help you, but my friend today living in an 800 S.F. house 3 house down from me said her bill was $150. 🙁 Yep–cover those windows.

          Hope you try the electric saving things and I pray for relief to come for your family.

          I do know that during that year, it seemed we couldn’t have bought a job even if we could have.

          God bless you and your family. You are on my prayer list.

          Let Mac give you my email if ya wanta?? JayJay

        • Justincase:  To go along with handwashing your clothes…use your bathtub and get a clean, never-used toilet plunger — you can use that to mimic a washing machine agitator (the thing in the middle).

          As a side note … to stretch the family meals, a can of Dinty Moore Beef Stew (or equivalent) over a bed of rice makes it go a heck of a lot further — mix in another can of vegetables and it isn’t a bad meal at all.  For about $3.50, you could feed two adults and two little kids a reasonably nutritious meal.

          To save a bunch of money, don’t use paper towels — wipe up spills the old fashioned way with a cloth — alternate your toothpaste one day and then baking soda the next day (or every third day). 

          If you have a dog and can handle it (a lot of pampered pooches can’t), feed him or her table scraps instead of commercial dog food.  Pay attention to what dogs can’t eat like onions or garlic (it kills me when I see dog foods with garlic in them).  Dogs have survived for hundreds of years off of table scraps. 

        • Hang in there my friend…. I know it sucks ass to have this happen. Just keep doing any little bit you can, my experience has been that it will help keep at bay feeling overwhelmed and not in control. 

          I am wondering Mac, if someone lives near this woman and her family and could install her wood stove, could we make this happen? If we could help each other at times like this, that would help everyone in the long run, since there’s safety in numbers after all

          • SOS thats why i`m trying to find out where she is

      35. I work as a security guard, I see a lot of possibility in hiding in plain sight. On lonely nights, when no one is around I play out scenarios of where I would hide in these big buildings where I work at. Most are already empty, lots of business went out back in 2008 I guess.

        But anyway, I can see the benefits of hiding upstairs in a office building, you can break a window and the breeze is good to sleep with on a hot night. Just bring a mosquito net that you can put over the broken window. In the winter time you can move down into the basement and use the boilers or at least parts of it to create a chimney(they already have an exhaust system or shaft built into it) and still have heat and solid cement walls surrounding you. Except for the 1st floor of most buildings it is safe to be in. You just have to board up or fortify the bigger entry ways and keep the stairwells usually just two in a tight secure detail. That will be pretty much the only way to get up or down into the building. The elevator shafts will be blocked by the stalled elevator wherever they ended up on. Most elevator doors are pretty sturdy and hard to open. You have a birds eye view of your surroundings from above and will have ample time to run down the stairwells and get away if you have to or if to warn someone else that is down below of what is happening on the outside.

        It will probably work best if you have a few people with you that are on the same page and can help each other to survive this. Of course food and water will have to be brought in and stored upstairs in a safe designated place. You also have lots of burning material inside for making fires and or using as weapons to throw down from above to crush the enemy. Desks, old monitors, CPU’S and such.

        You can also exit most buildings in other ways besides the typical out the front door, some of these have adjacent parking garages and other buildings close by that can be used to hide from an incoming gang or mob. Also if it really becomes necessary you can also exit through the drainage pipes, they will lead you far out and usually end up somewhere under neath the street away from the building. Also if you take time to learn the outlay of the building you can know how to move around faster and know where to go to hide and or to escape. Also it is helpful to learn the outlay of the buildings that surround you. Hope this might help someone later on when things become incredibly hard for us.

        On another note, I had dreams back in the 90’s that I didn’t fully understand. Until 911,2001. Then I understood. Again other dreams are coming to me, only this time they are 100 times more horrible. I don’t watch gory movies, never had. I suspect that I will get a dose of gory in real life some time in the future if things play out the way they seem to be. God help us all. 

      36. Make sure your survival spot is in the  region safe for your ethnic identity. If the US is going to break up like some people think,  it doesn’t make sense to get caught behind enemy lines. Unpleasant to think about, but neccessary.

        • ‘Suzy Sparklefarts!’ Hon, I hereby – hands down – give you the SHTF award for ‘Most Unique Handle!’ Welcome!!!! :)PS – I laughed for near onto 10 minutes, continuously, after reading your moniker!

          • Uh huh… I think I blew coffee out my nose…;)sparklefarts…lol. 

            • @ Piper,

                 Yup, Dat upada nose, dat tough! Did dat a while bak wit SmokinOkie – with ‘Mountain Dew’ – reading bout ‘Letters to Okie’ when he talked about ‘Ammo Therapy’. Took a wik’ to git dat Ca-bo- nation outa my Nose! 🙂

            • I just want to know what she has been eating,,,doesnt need the power company,,


      37. Shelter in place.Have a few pallets of super pails of water supply and a berkey water filter.Stay home, stay armed and super insulate a room and have some arctic sleeping bags.  No worriesAs for long-term….we’re not going back to mad max days. People still need to live.The big worries are the Obama crash of the currency.No twinkies.  haA longterm issue is the aging population….a nation of old people.I worry about the coming 401k theft.When the currency crashes and the govt. is failing..they will nationalize ira and 401k.At retirement I’ll move to the country and garden, hunt, cut firewood, feed the chickens.Watch the socialists…their end game answer is geneocide!!!!The people of the United States seems to be getting well armed for that.Dried goods are your best longterm strategy.  I just had to toss out some canned goods from 2009.  Go dried goods.

        • Okay–I need to know ..what did you toss??


      38. I live in a semi-rural area about 30 miles from a major city. When the SHTF no matter what the scenario, I am going to stand my ground. I have already decided that I will share my preps with hungry children and those I choose for as long as possible. Many good men will rise to the occasion and be the first line of defense to those who live in the country. We will take out as many looters and rapists as possible before they get to your area.I do not have a death wish, nor am I afraid to die. I plan to provide cover for the women and children fleeing such a catastrophe. If I have to lay down my life so that others may survive and rebuild, so be it.

        • FireHawk: I’m with you 100%.STAND TALL and MAKE THEM PAY!!!

        • More or less at almost 50 years of age, if or when shtf hits whoa to the person who harms a women or child.

          • I’m with you Butterknife…

            Once you reach a certain age, you figure you only have so much time left anyway…..and….since no one is really dependent upon you….you feel you can take more risks.  Personally…I hope to live long enough to become a problem for the bad guys.  Thugs and looters will be dealt with with extreme prejudice.

      39. Manos, it is good to see you’re still doin it. I’ve been to Greece, Rhodes to be more specific. I really enjoyed my time there. It saddens me to see what has been happening there. Hope you pull through.  I think it’s great that you have found people to team up with. I too have a small group of friends that will pitch together when the shtf. I personally think that my location is pretty set for any hordes of people looking to plunder. My only concern here is natural disaster (cat 4 hurricane or a tsunami) that I can pray doesn’t come, and fresh water. I can make a sea still, and collect rain water. Both of which are plentiful. But for any populations leaving the big cities would face natural choke points. And hopefully the lack of easy fresh water would keep them away. The Florida keys is a good tourist trap, but fproof grid living, not many would think to come here. Hope that plan works. 

      40. StayInAlive,    Be Informed provides a most valuable service for everyone on this site; i don’t think he’s promoting himself.  

        he’s also one of the sharpest blades in the house; more than I can say for you.   if you don’t like what you see here, you do have the option of going somewhere else.  

        Son of Sam,  I agree with everything you saidm although I’m surviving-in-place for one different reason.   Back during the Clinton era,  i saw the writing on the wall at that time and tried to buy some property in the Ozarks.  

        Even though I had the down payment and a co-signer,  I was still turned down for a mortgage,  so renting is the only option I have.   I understand what everyone else says about staying in an urban area in post-SHTF and i know they’re sincere and do appreciate their concern.   As you and others have stated, bugging out is not an option for everyone.  

        I’m not becoming a refugee regardless of what anyone says.   Refugees have been known to suffer a horrible fate all throughout history.  

        I’ll take my chances in the city; no other choice for me.   Stay safe and keep prepping.   Braveheart

        • @ Braveheart.  You brought up something that is correct, I am not promoting myself.  If I was I would not be going by some pseudonym or alias, I would be using my real name.  I found that preppers/survivalists should remain as anonymous as possible and not doing so opens someone up for people knowing that you have something that they need when the collapse happens.  Personally for so long I have tried to find a method of forecasting future events and I have also longed for having a place that I could depend on for future predictions that were at least semi-accurate.  I have found through using science and numbers you can forecast the future, like the Foundation for the Study of Cycles does. 

          To not share what I have found about earthquakes with others would be extremely wrong, it would be withholding information that can save someone from death or severe injuries because they were alerted to the possibility of an earthquake coming.  I could of course post this on another site, but I really like this site and people have the same ideas and the same prepare for the future philosophy as I have.  There are also many people that live in areas that are in extremely terribly danger zones for earthquakes.  Not trying to warn them in my view would be so wrong.

          Before Hurricane Sandy I knew what what going to happen, and again and again I tried to forewarn people that it was going to be extremely ugly, it was no Irene, it was more of a Hurricane Hazel type intensity.  I know this constant warning about Sandy bothered people a lot that wanted to discuss instead the upcoming election.  I could not live with myself knowing what I knew about Sandy and not letting others also know that don’t understand the weather and the science about it.  Just like when I see a potential deadly event coming in the form of the ground moving violently, I feel I have to let others know.

          A lot of what I say about trying to show that this system works is so people in the future will take seriously what is being forecasted so they are at least mentally prepared for it.  I just hope that others when they see something that all of us, or a small section of the population, needs to know that they don’t feel too apprehensive not to let us know.  Word of mouth saves lives as long as it is never done as fearmongering for something that does not have some substance behind it that at least it could happen.   I for one thing would love to hear from some people over in the Middle East right now and what they are seeing what is happening, as the news never seems to get it right.  Hopefully all of us get an advance warning of a SHTF event before it happens.

      41. I don’t generally enter twice on any given article but possibly this will help.You can make all the physical preperations for what is coming but if you are not ready spiritually you may be in trouble. I am well past my prime and withour my belief in Jesus I would not be able to stand up to what is coming. It is not about religion, it is about being right with God. Be strong patriots. 

        • Not to nit pick , but if it were possible to be right with God , there would be no need for Jesus . just sayin he is right tho , keeping spiritual beliefs intact , does make a huge difference in being able to cope .

          • Jesus was and is God, he came here to sacrifice his life on a cross for us, all who believe in him will be filled with his holy spirit of peace, love, and joy, and hope, when they admit they are sinners and accept his forgiveness through his death on the cross. He loves us. His love enables us to be right and live close to him, with his spirit in us. We have to accept him his way or we will not get his benefits. He did it so we can live to him. Just saying cuz someone asked. I prefer and he does too, that we all live in heaven with him, and be close to him on earth. Don’t believe me? Try it. He promises to give you new life in him when you accept what he’s done for you. This is not religion. It is God loving you, and wanting to be close to you. It works, because He is real.

      42. I live in a small town in Wisconsin. Both Madison and Milwaukee are 100 miles away. Green Bay is about 50.  Still, there must be hundreds of people who live within a one mile radius of where I live. After it hits the fan I plan on hanging tar paper over the windows from the inside so nobody can see light outside. Don’t answer the door. Act like I’m not home. Only go outside at 3 am to dump poop buckets. Wear a night vision eyepiece and carry a shotgun when I do that. I have a year’s supply of food and 1500 gallons of water in the basement.

        • There is a poor mans survailance system you can put in around the outside of your home , pretty simple , all it takes are a few webcams placed in areas to cover desired views , then just look around from the safety of inside your home on your laptop .

          • Will really work well during an extended power outage.

            • depends on how you do it . If you can recharge your laptop , and also rig the cams power source for inside access , then yes . just do your homework , sometimes the cheapie stuff is better because it is simple . If you live in an area that doesn’t snow , solar is a good option . They can be very small these days .

          • That’s not really for “poor” men, camcorders with nightshot and laptops aren’t exactly free you know…

            • They are for me, but then I excel at trash picking…

            • simple lights on a motion detector ……..they are cheap .

        • let’s try this again dudes.

        • I know for alot of us, good nightvision is waaaay too expensive. But I found a super cheap alternative. Scour flea markets, garage sales, and craigslist for late 90’s early 00’s Sony Handycam video cameras. Their “Nightshot” feature gives you some pretty good nightvision (something better than nothing, no?)

          I’ve picked up a few of these for between $5-$30 each.

          To really extend the nightvision’s range, pick up some cheap outdoor solar LED garden lights, swap out the LED’s for IR LEDS (can be bought cheaply at Radioshack) and place them around the perimeter of your property.

          Works incredibly well!!

        • Barn Cat, my lil’ bro was born in Green Bay, he’s a diehard cheese head.

      43. off topicbut an interesting take on the Hostess bankruptcy geewho knew that members of Congress could be bought and sold like street corner whores ???  

        • EVERYONE.

        • Too bad they didnt have the chinese produce a portion …………they would still make the same products under a different name and sell them back to us ……… because thats how the chinese roll .

      44. Fact is , in the US , there is NO place that is completely safe , even if you could get to it ………..

        some are better than others but sooner or later , you will be found . One concept I found talking to other preppers is reverse psychology bug out as a plan B . What that basically is , is that you go to a place that the population feels is undesireable to even think about wandering around to . Death Valley for example . I cant see anybody thinking about Death Valley as a place they want to go when all fails them , matter of fact , will go out of their way to avoid such areas . Death Valley deserves its bad reputation ….

        BUT ….. believe it or not , it does have water in the form of natural springs ……..

        if you know where , most are a difficult hike in ( no roads ) , abandoned mining structures , many still standing to shelter , etc . ……….

        it would not be easy , but it could be done . It will take a lot of water to get to your water ……

        I hiked mosaic canyon in 127 degrees and downed 5 quarts of water ( it can hit 135 degrees ) nasty areas are nasty and avoided for a reason , that does not mean they wont support life .

        •  cough * Grand Canyon* cough

      45. JustInCase,  I’m sorry tohear about your situation and will pray for you;  i wish you and yours the best.   Manos, good to hear from you and hope you and yours are doing well.   Littleguy, welcome aboard.   I’ve been in the private security industry since 1982 and i know all too well from where you speak.   I’ve seen so many strange things in this business nothing can surprise me anymore.   braveheart

      46. Is a lot of what we see on TV staged?Look up Pallywood on you tube

      47. The notion that hundreds of thousands or millions will “strategically relocate” is quite absurd. It will not happen.

        Examination of regional areas of collapse reveal that relocation is rarely considered. This is true throughout the entire world.  Most people actually say and attempt to rebuild.

        People who are not already living where they intend to stay will fare very badly later on when “relocating when the shtf”.  Several things will happen:

        a) They will be prevented from leaving;

        b) They will be prevented from arriving;

        c) They will be treated as “occupiers” instead of contributors;

        d) They will be ostracized, “outsiders”, unwelcome, unwanted and ripe for the plucking (theft, robbery, assassination);

        e) Some of these “prepared locations” that they’ve set up will already be occupied by others.

        f) They will be poorly prepared, since it takes many years of actual physical preparation to “homestead”. This is not something you just “show up and do” (speaking from decades of actual experience).

        g) Many rural areas / people are making plans to repel outsiders — this WILL happen, resulting in massive casualties.

        f) the very reason mentioned, ie., “population density” will be the reason established rural communities and towns will reject the displaced. They will have neither the resources, desire or “open arms” to receive hordes of outsiders.  You are a very real threat to their way of life, survival and community, you will NOT be welcomed.

        If you have never experienced this, then you have never moved to a small town and come to understand what happens.  It takes many years to integrate and be considered “welcome”.  Forcing yourselves upon these people is a disaster, and it will be deadly during a shtf event.  You will lose your freedom, your land and your life. Make absolutely no mistake about it.  City dwellers / suburbanites / urban folks have absolutely no idea what they are up against.

        Their “small towns” and rural areas “on purpose”.  Economically, that is all they can support. A flood of “immigrants” will drastically alter the balance. Philosophically, this is all they intend to allow.

        Those of you that are assuming a “welcome mat” are sadly mistaken. It does not exist now — it won’t exist then.

        While I cannot address Skousen, the points raised in this article indicate that he’s really out of touch with reality and understanding the people who already live in rural areas and what they fully intend to do. 

        Jones on the other hand, is a utter fool, dumb as fucking stump. Nothing he says, writes, publishes, promotes or sells should be considered factual, true, worthwhile or meaningful.

        • People will “strategically relocate” if they have a reason.  Ever heard of the Vikings?

          • That is true ! the main reason the vikings were so successful is because of blitzkrieg tactics , these people were big physically , trained in fighting at an early age , were totally ruthless to any that resisted . They came in fast ( usually at night ) and killed everything , then got out ! …… the time the raid was discovered by the locals ………they were long gone . This starting to sound familiar ?  Rural folks are vulnerable living out there all alone in the sticks . Another factor may be rogue military units ………good luck repelling that one . They will be able to get rid of the average guy and his family ( ohhhhh big challenge ) but a numerical group of trained folks ……they can expect to take heavy casualties if they do succede …..numbers that can not be replaced . If it lasts log enough ( SHTF ) they will eventually be replaced by the new comers for no other reason than the population of townies keeps getting smaller and smaller …….they may be forced to change their toon after awhile . You have to remember , criminal organizations do this for a living and employ people with skills the average goober has never seen or heard of . If they decide to move their base of operations when shit goes down in the cities the rurals may be in for a rude surprise , another factor , and this goes for anybody , urban or rural ………you kill another person , say you kill a mans wife or father  and one gets away ………the one that gets away may come back for justified vengeance ……they may feel they have nothing more to loose or live for , be careful who you murder if they dont threaten you…….Just sayin

            no place will be safe ……..urban or rural

            • Hi TR,

                  I’ve sat and thought about this – at length – for some time. The militay is not the problem…there is now and has always existed in the services an underlying ‘ethos’ of sorts that serves to limit just where the military will and will  not go. Said ‘ethos’ arrises out of a long, long sequence of ‘military traditions’ that have been refined since soldiers of the Continental Army first stood shivering in Valley Forge.

                 The problem is two-fold; One is that damned DHS, which of course has no such body of traditions which serve – in effect – as a collective ‘conscience’…an ‘ethical’ framework, Yes? To be sure, there are exceptions in any given group of individuals,, but on balance the very thing which serves to mitigate the possible courses of action of elements of the military might engage in is simply absent from the former. Secondly, as bad if not worse, there’s the LEO aspect. Don’t get me wrong here; there are persons of truly sterling character serving in Law Enforcement in this country…but there are also others whose character is shaped otherwise. A part of the problem lays in how Law  Enforcement is constituted; it is a self-selecting group…and as such it is – as an authority-wielding body – very much prone to attract those who value Power and Authority more than Justice. This, coupled with the extrtaordinanry ‘arming’ of the LEO community via the repurposing of military-grade hardware IS sobering indeed.

                 In the bulk of your other points my thinking is principally aimilar.

          • Spot on Richards. Rather fight from familiar ground than unfamiliar ground. Wanna be close in on em so they can smell my breath,  feel the heat coming off  my face.

        • One concern I’ve always had about having a “bugout retreat” is this….

          What if….when you arrive at your retreat….you find that it’s already occupied by someone else?  How successful do you think you’ll be “asking” them to leave?  Or…..even if they aren’t there, think your retreat will be left as they found it?  I’m thinking that at best, it’s going to be stripped to the bare bones, if not burned to the ground.

          Something to consider.  If you don’t have the means to protect it, it’s not really yours.  And if you’re not there….you can’t protect it.  You’d better hope you have foreknowledge of what’s coming to get to it BEFORE TSHTF.

        • Refugees are never welcomed with open arms.

          • ‘Homeland Security’ promotes welfare to new immigrants in ‘welcome’ materials.

            Link on Drudge Report

      48. Why don’t we just get all the criminals in this country to relocate…to prison.

        • Or Hell. . .  I think it has a few spots open still. . .

          • Hell ain’t half full. Let the cleansing begin.

          • @ PP,


             Hmmm, not tooo sure about that anymore…. However, the Aleutian Islands would surely make a fine drop point for the criminals…..and the bankers…..and the politicians…..and the Beaurocrats. Is this getting monotonous? 🙂 Would make Alcatraz look like a ‘vacation in the Bahama’s’!

        • because prison is too good for them and what they have done

        • southron

          if you send gthem to prison someone has to feed them,,,i`m not

      49. About 10 Hours ago there was a huge Sun Eruption

        havent seen it posted so I thought I’d bring it up

        • Hi VRF,


              Good observation on the ‘event’. SolarHam has posted out on this saying that it was a ‘prominence eruption’ off the North-East limb. they go on to say that this WON’T be geo-eefective….so we’re ‘in the clear’ here. Thank’s for letting us know, MORE eyes is always better, besides things getting missed…gotta sleep sometime, Eh? 🙂

          • Correction: ‘On the Eastern limb…” LASCO’s imaging depicts the emmision as emanating from a point just slightly south of the polar equator.

               On another note,

                 Today, at about 2 AM central SWIFT has recorded the first GRB since the last one on the 7th of this month…this is a rather long period elapsed without anysuch having been recorded. The SWIFT light-curve repository has logged an early plot of the observed activity and this appears to have been a relatively weak occurance. It is worth noting that both of the final GRB’s logged at the last of October were significantly stronger and occured prior to the onset of this last period of increased seismic activity…

        • VRF,

          A good site that I always watch daily is :

          They have good links on their essential links page to , NOAA, etc.

          Plus they also have good info on things to prep, etc.

          Probably my favorite site for solar storm news and updates. Check it out!




      50. Have any Constitutionalists or Libertarians come out advocating months of storage instead of the little that FEMA recommends?

      51. First of all, I send my heart felt compassion towards the coast of NC to justincase and her family.  It is sad to hear that your situation is not all that good right now.  Remember, put God first and He will open doors for you that man has closed.  I’ve said a prayer for you that He do that.  Keep the faith and hope.

         Secondly, BI is keeping us all informed with the earthquake situation(Thks BI), and all I can do is give my update for buying , what I consider, the best prepping food available for the price and protein availability.  It’s plain old dry pinto beans.

         We have been stockpiling for the past three years.  Dry pintos in a relatively cool, air tight environment, have a very long shelf life.  At about 22% protein, the pinto beans can sustain a family for an indefinite amount of time.  We have meals planned with homemade chowchow and hot relish.  Some just with rice, and some just with cornbread muffins.  We have always used Walmarket prices as a base price for certain items.  Dry pintos are one of those items, since they are hardly ever marked down at the grocers.  We gauge all dry pinto prices at $1.00 per lb. as a fair/reasonable price.  All other dry beans are usually much higher.  When the little woman came back from a shopping trip to the city with one of her friends, she said, “don’t get upset before I explain, but I bought a one year membership to Sam’s Club”.

         I won’t bore you with details but as we had always never been able to justify the savings since we live a hundred miles round trip from a Sam’s Club or Costco, etc., we never had been to one.  Now, since we are using every spare dime to purchase more “foodstuffs” for stockpiling; we went today and I found 10 lb. bags of dry pintos for .81 cents per lb.  I was pleased because i have researched everywhere i know online and could never find them cheaper than $1.00 per lb.

         If anyone knows where to find the bean cheaper than that, please let us know.  Unless you live near a farmer that grows them, and buy them by the 100 lb. sack, I think Sam’s is the way to go.

         Growing up mostly with my grandparents in the 60’s, we were poor except i didn’t know it then; and we ate pinto beans at least five days each week.  Somedays we had biscuits and somedays we had cornbread.  Some days we had granny’s fried chicken with them or fried Squirrel or cottontail.  When we had slim pickins’, we had pintos seasoned with chunks of ham cut off a shoulder hanging in the smokehouse and loafbread.  But at least we “had”.

         It could be “crunch time”  for stockpiling easy to keep and relatively cheap foods.  If the Middle East Wars keep escalating, we could see food prices double, along with fuel, before next planting season.  Before i would worry about getting away from hoardes/crowds of people, I’d be worried about having enough food supplies to last until next growing season.  Happy shopping and Happy upcoming Thanksgiving. 

        • don’t tread

          Couldn’t agree more..prices are quickly rising ever so steadily on almost all grains,legumes,pastas,sauce, proteins,canned goods of all types here on the n.e. coast and we haven’t even felt the severe spike in all grains and poultry/pork/beef from the summer droughts yet.I follow the commodities  to gauge what necessities need to be stockpiled ahead of the oncoming price curves..and we’re in for a huge hit soon!

          Your situation with dry beans is a perfect example..they have gone up from .80-.90 per pound just 6 months ago to over 1.45 average now..canned beans have gone from .60 to 1.00 on average in the same time frame..that’s  50 % average inflation on beans in 6 months!

          Chicken legs have shot from .79 to 1.29 #average in less than 6 months..another 50% price spike!Canned sardines went from 1.00 to 1.45 in just the last month.on and on..I am a chef by trade so I watch prices inherently when I shop for home use as well..

          The only shiny precious metals I can afford on a weekly basis are  canned goods, aluminum jacketed for practice, and shiny brass h.p. for home defense..and even those are drying up due to the huge demands.Bulk 223 ,.40 and 22lr were out of stock for the 1st time in years…



          • possee man .79 is high they used to be. 39,,,everything has gone up except paychecks and i think we havennt seen anything yet


        • My Dad ate pasta fazole (beans & pasta soup/stew) and broccoli rabe (wild braccoli) with an occasional rabbit or chicken in the 1920s until WWII. Obviously it was pretty healthy because that was an Italian staple that fueled Rocky Marciano and Joe DiMaggio. My Grandparents and Great Uncles/Aunts all lived to 80 or better 40 years ago. 

          Cheap does not have to be devoid of flavor. 

      52. I saw a movie a long time ago. It was about a group of regular high school age guys that saw the enemy parachute in. They ran to the hills and stayed a while. Then they got an idea. Start killing the enemy and take their weapons to use against them. Now what was the name of that film again?…..oh it was called I think………….. ” WOLVERINES” !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

        • Red Dawn remake in theaters Thanksgiving.

        • The original ‘Red Dawn’, with Patrick Swaze (sp)

          Great movie.

          The remake is supposed to be a piece of shite…

          Hollywood has run out of ideas… another great sign, that we have now become a decaying society.


          • Sorry to hear it.

          • It would have been better if they stuck with the plot they originally intended ……….instead of Koreans , it was supposed to be US Soldiers turning on their own people .

        • Saw that too-it was great, and I can’t remember the name




        Prepper concept…  Stock up on silver…then when it all goes to shit…

        You’ll be able to buy country land off a banker with a box full of metal.

        Then you’ll have firewood for heat, wall water, game, land to grow food.

        Until them…acquire all you need for your prepper lifestyle.  Don’t forget the chainsaws and parts.



        • Can’t eat silver and only a fool would trade food for it when shtf.  Pretty coins tho.


          • you trade the silver for farm land after the shtf has quieted down.

            Do you know how much food you can raise on 10 acres?

            Stop with all the stone age shit.  

            Anybody who says buy silver…  you know they have  few pallets of food ready.    Stop being such 101 bone-head you newbies.



            • You dont need 10 acres. One person can eat for a year from a 4 x 4 foot box. Easy to maintain. Less water, less weeds. More produce per square foot than long beds. Done both. It works, easier, more cost effective. Can do anywhere. Blessings. Check out square foot gardening. Com by mel bartholomew. Love it. Been doing it since before I read his book, cuz its better. Figured it out on my own, wherever I lived. Its great!

      54. Mac, Thanks for letting us post annon.  Yeah, I know the govt. can track my machine.   But this lets us tell folks how we really feel.

        I typed a long piece but deleted it.  Why, because Obama is going to go commie on us and track down any opposition.   Just like the reds do.

        My final point.



      55. Richards, everything you said about relocation is true, except for one possible scenario.  if someone in a city has relatives in a small town or rural area that they’ve already made arrangements to go to when SHTF hits, or better yet, go early if they recognize the warning signs.   just out of the blue, an hour ago i got a call from one of my cousins in north ga. saying she has a guest cabin i can stay in if it gets out of hand where i currently live, as long as I have my own preps and pull my own weight, which i already have and will do and still prepping.   Badpuppydog, the movie you’re talking about is “Red Dawn” from 1984 and a new version is supposed to be coming out soon.    Braveheart 

      56. Greetings !

        It seems to me that the whole concept of “going somewhere safe” is at best a evolving one.The one constant is that “inner-city” is NOT one of them.Beyond that,who knows ?I DO think that depending upon TPTB to “care for our needs” in the event of something massive could prove fatal to one’s future.They most likely be far too busy trying to keep themselves alive.I’m guessing what ever it is could start at any moment now.I also think that it seems like it could play out over a decade or more.The CHANGE is fast becoming almost overdue.The longer it waits,the more severe the crash of the current system will be.It will need a plan that includes something more than a few weeks(or months) of food and water and guns.I won’t subject anyone here with my vision of the future.God didn’t whisper his plan in detail.However,he did leave some instructions as to what to look for as signs and what to do to get past all of this.

        That’s how I see the things coming  that ‘ll “make men faint out of fear” of what’s  coming to” the whole world of men”as we now know it.Meantime…

        Let’s set-aside a few more cans of food and await the future with hope

        Best to All



      57. Excellent article. Rural places are the safest by far and wide. Small towns or villages are a good thing. When SHTF though, these people will band together, and an outsider is an outsider, remember that. You’d better have more to offer in skills than bullets in a place like that if your planning on “pulling in”

        Check out my blog at and do leave comments.

      58. Didn’t even have to watch that to know we’re screwed (large apartment complex, in a densely populated neighborhood in a major city). Our property is four hours’ drive, which many have said is idyllic just by the pictures alone, and we have plenty of multi-purpose camping gear and a standard, unmarked white work van parked out front we could snag from bossman if we really needed to, but it would be hell to get there if we didn’t leave immediately. As the guy says, we genuinely are stuck here due to current financial reasons, and we’ve been working on squaring things away just like Daisy pointed out above, but I’m concerned our efforts will be for naught.

      59. # this is bigger than youthink….sounds good to me     :>)

      60. @ instead of # for above post…’s early

      61. related post over on Modern Survival Blog


      62. Given the population density ofh the US, stratgic relocation is a joke.  But do not let facts get in your way, as they rarely do to themany of the sheep who frequent this site.  Continue to live withyour delsuions, if they make you feel better.

        • JoeinNC;  Hittin that bottle again huh Joe?

      63. whatever tripped up the baby bombing and mass murder ass McVeigh is ok with me.  Good point but really bad example

        • Do some intensive research and I think you’ll see that the evidence points to McVeigh being a patsy. Not to go off on a conspiratorial tangent or anything, but please look outside the mainstream for your information.

          • Daisy will you ever come back????

        • Wow, Gonna get ya, when a Canadian is more knowledgable on the truth of our nation, that does say a lot about you!!  🙁

          • Psst….jayjay!  I’m American, not Canadian!  I just live in Canada! 😉

          • I think he is alive and well,,living the high life at tax payer expense,,there sure is a difference between a explosion and a implosion,,


      64. I know the name of the film is ” red dawn ” ……..I was just refering to the part where the guy was standing on the hilltop holding his gun in the air shouting..’ wolverines ” !   

      65. Happen to glance at the show with Fareek the globilist hosting former Sec of Treasurer Paul O’Neil who is advocating a VAT tax here.Their gonna get there money for sure.Were going the way of Euro.

      66. Off Topic…


        Programmer Under Oath Admits Computers Rig Elections.


        Software programmer talks about “vote rigging software” and says elected officials have “tried to pay him rig their election vote count.”


      67. BI,  i have no problem standing up for you since you provide a valuable service on this site and I, for one do appreciate the info you provide.  Plus, you’re right about the need for preppers/survivalists to have anonymity on the web. i confess; the movie “Braveheart’ is one of my favorites and nobody plays the underdog like Mel Gibson. It’s also based on a true story.  These trolls who come on here from time to time and attack any of us with credible information really get to me.  Everyone on here who reads my posts know i don’t attack anyone that has credible information to share and I don’t go ranting on a regular basis, but that attack on you was totally unjustified and I felt the need to respond to it.   I’m on here to learn and share just like most others are.  When I come acros an article that I think is relevant to a survival-related issue i gladly post a link to it for others to examine.  Keep up the outstanding work.   Braveheart

      68. We already live at our bug out location; just a smallish house near in the hills bordering a state wildlife area.

        But I do have to work in town.

        Now, in the even of widespread mayhem. I could probably drive home.In case I must walk home, I keep a 3-day backpack  of items in the trunk, including a good sized quality knife, one of my tomahawks, a .45acp pistol and some ammo (legally stored as per state law).

        Walking home won’t be very difficult, just a long walk.  I can follow the river for the most part which keeps me off the highway. The river route comes within a mile of our road and another mile to home sweet home.

        I’ve walked this route twice to test it. It works, but it is a long walk over woodsy terrain and takes hours.


        • Do you have to legally store your tomahawk, Tomahwk?

          What kind of screwed up state do you live in?

          Ammo should make up 60 % of the weight of your BOB.

      69. Has anyone else noticed that CocoPuff Crackhead/NinaO and Facebook Page have disappeared at the same time?

        I don’t like that.

        Miss your links and interesting perspective, NO.  😉 I hope you’re back soon!

        • Maybe they are “hooking up” Daisy. Just saying 🙂

          • Ew….I don’t really think so, DK.

            But thanks for that horrid mental image.

        • @ Daisy,


             Ummm, yeah. Noticed that CoCo was absent didn’t catch that FB was ‘MIA’ also…. T’ank’s.

        • Agreed, Daisy. Sometime CoCo can make my eyes bled, but when one of your own goes missing, well – it don’t matter.  Everyone has something to bring to the picnic.  Thank you, most kindly, for watching the front line. 

          Hey, Mac, I think many, some more than others, give a lot of credibility to the likes of  BI, J1G et al… information – so I put on my thinking hat and went awanderin’  – if, since these knowledgeable folk are among us; and what ever reason they don’t have a dedicated http://www... could we at least have a raise of hands on giving them that ‘1st’ spot to add to the discussion they could add to that info when it is available?  I vote – #1 comment spot given to ‘all things related to Planet Earth’ no matter if it’s off topic.  Their take on events is very helpful and a pain to sift thru the site for them (no offense on the sifting stuff, very valuable indeed, but I only have some many hours in my day to review and plan accordingly).

          p.s.  Daisy, I think you can be off-topic any old time you want.  I value your watching.  Team work is the only way to see if through the fog being sprayed.

          … wee ~..~

          • I agree,,but how can we have teamwork when we trust no one,,,???????????????????/someonbe please tell me when in our history that one person did it all alone,,,,it was teamwork,,,a few coming together with other fews,,,hahaha,,,i would much rather be your helper/friend now than have to shoot you later,,when you may be just the person i need to help both of us survive,,guess i`m just spinning my wheels



            • I’d really rather you not shoot me, too, Snake.

              I’m not saying it’s impossible  to find people to trust – just very very difficult – and also scary.

              ~ D

              • Daisy i know honey it is all bad things rolled into one ,,,(trust) btw how much is land there $per acre

                • Depends on how close to the water you are – the area is loaded with lakes.  Land can range anywhere from 10K per acre up to 100K per acre.  Not only is the price affected by  the proximity to water, many roads in this area are not maintained by the municipality. If the property is “snowmobile” accessible in the winter, then it’s going to be way less. 

                  Properties sold as “hunting camps” are often the best value – they don’t have electricity or running water but they are extremely isolated. Because of the lack of utilities the taxes are also quite low.  This is the goal for us, eventually, even if we can only afford to put a little trailer on the property.

                  ~ D


                  • Daisy, r u in Alaska?

          • Hi WeeVoice,

                 I’m not rure if BI has seen this post yet but I’ll mention it when next we ‘jabber’ a bit., after the last few days I KNOW someone’s heart will be warmed by such a flattering response. Many thanks from me also.

               In truth I’ve been having a dialogue with Mac (via E-Mail) during which it came out that he intends to create a permanent sub-forum in the new schema which he called “Eartth Changes” I’m QUITE sure that BI and msyself will be resident there almost continuously. Hopefully, the new structure that Mac is about to implement here will both allow everyone to get a more targeted view of the threads that they enjoy the most and too will – I think – serve to releive some of the congestion and complexity that we all have to contend with now.

                It’s worth noting that if no one cared about this place, that if there wasn’t SO much interest here that this would probably never have come about. As such we can all give Mac a HUGE round of applause for all his efforts to date and all his efforts to come. We look forward to seeing everyone in the new forums when they arrive. Thanks again! 🙂

        • A Warning to you All . 

          Your Precious CocoPuff CrackHead NinaO … has been neutralized liquefied perm retired “BLACK BAGGED” by the ZOG FBI .

          Just heard about it through the Montana Free Men Patriot grape vine .

          He’s bein’ “Water-Boarded” an “Anal Probed with a cattle prod” by ZOG DHS BLACK BOOT GESTAPO right now as you read this post in Camp Fema Montana . 

          Seems your Boy pee’d off the ZOG dress wearing CIA Puppet Commie Prez for the last time .  

          R.I.P. CPCH NinaO  

          -F.M.P. 1776

          • He’ll be missed, as evidenced by all the thumbs up the “Where’s Coco?” post got.

            Hopefully “you” will be able to step into his shoes…ummm…I mean…combat boots.

            ~ D

        • my point,,, of contacting each other,,,,could be true could be hype,,,the jungle telegraph is better,,,no offense Mac,,,does anyone know them on here????



         Optimism Bias: What Keeps Us Alive Today Will Kill Us Tomorrow


        why don’t people prep?


        why don’t people evacuate when they’re told of the danger ? 

        • Great article, Satori – thanks for the link!

        • “why don’t people evacuate when they’re told of the danger ? “

          For the same reason that most people won’t abandon their homes and familiar surroundings after TSHTF (although RichardS had a nicer answer – comment #857626).


      71. Getting hard to post around here……..

      72. Well it did appear to go through and to the queue…….

      73. Just found out a friends son in the 1st cav at Ft. Bliss, TX. has been in the field for the last 4 weeks. He’s a medic and all training was about treating MASS CASUALTIES. This is the longest that they have been in the field and trained like this.

      74. @BI: Some good size microearthquakes this afternoon on the NMF at LAT.> 36.4137– Long.> 89.6997, Portageville, MO.

      75. Who in their right mind would attack Beinformed ? He goes over a shitload of data to arrive at his conclusions. Only a troll or a dumbass could not appriciate the information he gives. Keep it up Beinformed.

        • @ badpuppydog.  Thank you for pointing this out, as this last time I went through about 40,000 earthquakes to try to spot the locations in which the one in the sub-polar region occurred and what happened afterwards, to try to see a pattern that could help forecast what was coming.  My one eye is still twinching from this.  I need to know what is going to happen out of curiosity myself, but I want to share this with others, especially those in danger areas.  My real goal to is to present this and hopefully someone out there can expand on this and FINALLY the world will be able to predict earthquakes like they forecast toranadoes and hurricanes.  The surprise factor is what kills so many people that did not have to die.  Like back in the 19th. century people were at the mercy of the weather by not knowing.  Now at least there is some warning.

          I appreciate all the head’s up that people see around the country with events that we all should know about.  This is an excellent network of people, eyes and ears everywhere practically.  One scenario I sure would like to know about as well as everybody else would be troop movement in this country.  You start to see huge number of military, national guard, law enforcement, then something big is up.  I sure hope that the regular people that chime in alert us to this, but also those that don’t comment much at all or not at all, when they see strange pre-martial law type activity that they will let us all know about it.  It sure seems like everyone is on edge lately. 

          • Hi BI,

                What’s new Friend? The story you give above sounds all too similar to the excursion I had last year going back through the ENTIRE archive of NOAA plots – X-ray, Proton Flux,  Electron, Flux, SatMag, etc….about 25,000 altogether….Whew, ‘Been there, Done that!’ 🙂

                First and foremost though, beyond the SHADOW of a doubt you are VALUED here….Don’t for even a minute let the word’s of ‘fools’ dissuade you from the task you have embarked upon. 😉

                FWIW, Solar is quite calm since the spate of M-flares some few days ago; the visible solar face is well-populated with spots but they are ALL of the small variety….offhand, I dont think any are in excess of 220 solar millionth’s of the visible face. Neither, at this time does the STEREO SECCHI beacon seem to be indicating immediate further (incoming) activity for approximately 6 days. Happy day, I get to slow down a bit. 🙂

                I’ve sat back with the most recent USGS records (NOT nearly in the level of detail that you would, of course) and there is a 5.1 sigma correlation between the recent spate of solar flaring and the subsequent 6.0 or greater tectonic activity. The ‘relaxation time’ (parameter) relative to this appears to have been about 5 days. I wouldn’t go out on a limb here to further prognosticate/extrapolate that into future events…the data set is of too limited a period to draw any such conclusion, clearly. It occurs to me that it is HIGHLY likely that the ‘severity’ of a solar event would have to be considered as an ‘acceleration factor’ in any such estimation. This would also likely have to include both the relative magnitude of the event involved as well as the effective ‘impulse’ of the onset/decay curves inasmuch as the magnetic coupling is a function of the rate of change of the effective solar ‘currents’ involved.

                On a final note…don’t feel the neccesity to justify yourself to the ‘trolls’ that inhabit the board from time to time. You’ve got good friends here who appreciate ALL your efforts, on ALL levels. We’ll be ‘stickin’ wit ya’ throughout. 🙂

            • @ JustOneGuy.  This time when a 5+ hit towards Antarctica I had printed up records that I could go quickly over, rather than spend a few hours looking over hundreds of pages and pages of information.  This solar activity affects the planet, and I truly feel it affects people’s moods and their behavior as would any magnetic imbalances do.  I am just wondering if Hamas thinks that their rein is coming to an end if they will use chemical weapons against Israel.  If this happens all bets are off, and everything is going to go into high gear over in the Middle East right to a mass regional war. 

              You would be the one that could tell us this one.  When the sun becomes really active, do people in general including world leaders and other leaders do incredibly stupid and irrational acts?  The Israeli news sites say 24-48 hours before they ground invade Gaza, all depending on the circumstances.  With this solar activity, do you feel that this could influence those in the Middle East to do something crazy?  This would sure be interesting angle on what is happening.

              • Funny that you should bring this up…..


                   Some time ago during a ‘web excursion’ I undertook I stumbled over a paper directed at an analysis of the occurance of war, international incidents and other things such-like. Now, here’s where it gets interesting; the author’s of the piece were actually dyed-in-the-wool academics proffering the results of said analysis  under academic credential’s vetted by the university they were associated with. You’ll please forgive me if I can’t render specifics on this tonight…it was something I glanced at ‘en passant’ as it was not a regular part of those things which I pursue myself. If you require additional detail’s it may take a day or two for me to re-duplicate the search’s I was executing which led me there. I am reasonably sure I could – in fact – retrieve it bt you’ll have to let me know here before I’ll begin such.

                    I don’t mind if it’s relevant to you. 🙂

                   Incidentally, the result was that, in fact, there was/is a strong correlation between the relative magnitude of solar activity and human activity…..especially the Stock Market.

                    Go Figure?!

                   Tis late Friend, I ‘be’ heading for the night! 🙂

                • @ JustOneGuy.  Please, if it is a lot of work it is not necessay for me to know about the solar activity.  I am just, as well as so many other people, trying to figure out what is going to happen next.  Many don’t like surprises, and this war going on in the Middle East could explode into a regional and world war if the wrong conditions are met.  I imagine that other factors play into this, especially stress related issues in what a leader or a terrorist oganization will do, or won’t do. 

                  I know that animals act nuts before earthquakes, but I have little data about solar activity.  I can see animals that are hyper-sensitive to ultraviolent rays would react to this with the sun, but do humans also?   The magnetic field of the planet I know affects all living creatures, including plants, but is this enough to cause irrational behavior and decisions by people?  In other words could extreme solar activity cause some Hamas member to load a VX gas shell on one of those rockets?  Could solar extremes cause Hezbollah to act on what is going on?  What about Egypt or other arab countries? 

                  It would be interesting to see if there is a correlation between all of this because the sun is so much larger than the Earth and affects every lifeform on this planet in some way or another.  Just please don’t stress yourself out like I did trying to figure out where the next earthquake is going to happen, it is extremely draining on the body to search and search through much data.  Anything you come up with I am sure will be interesting.  Thank you for sharing what you know. 

                • Hello BI,


                     The ‘response box’ directly under your post is ‘greyed-out’, that’s why I’m responding here.

                       Affirmative, will ‘do’ a back-track to obtain the document…as indicated above, be patient with me as this isn’t something I’ve viewed in the course of the last few weeks. That said, I WILL find it, again – perhaps 24-36 hours till acquisition (I’d expect). Going ‘hunting’ now…be back…later. 🙂

                • @ JustOneGuy.  I hope you can find something, it would nice for everyone to see something coming before it happens in the Middle East.  A lot of people are going to be in some serious hurt when the oil over there is bottled up.  Nationwide gas rationing like the 1970’s, odd and even days, jacked up food prices, a true problem coming I think for all of us. 

                • Evenin’ BI,


                      The ‘trail’ begins here. Google  “A L Tchijevsky”, this is NOT the paper to which I refered earlier, but he is something mentioned as a source of same in it. Additionally, Google , a pdf file by the name of  “Sunspot Cycles & Human History.pdf”, this touches on similar obsevations/conclusions as the paper I’m hunting for now. Given the interconnectedness of ALL things on the web this will at least serve as a starting point for the pursuit on your end. Incidenatlly, the second of the aforementioned asserts specificsally that “correlstion above 80% is observed in the data relative to conflict, international incident and etc.”

                     I’m attempting to remember the university from which this originated at this point as a ‘handle’ in on a search. The paper was dual authored if memory serves and covers a period going back quite far….several hundred years.

                     I caught some of your other posting’s here, today and given both the specific circumstances in the middle east at this time the ‘floating’ assertion hereabouts that Hamas might actually possess chemical munitions is extremely disturbing; The Iraeli’s are geographically pushed up against a wall as it were, and if any such was detonated on or over Iraeli territory I’m relatively sure that thier response would be immediate….and ‘unlimited’ with respect to the Gaza strip. Without getting into the ‘who’s right and who’s wrong”  thing here which defines the entire Israeli/Arab situation the salients here are;

                  1) Israel occupy’s a tiny sliver of land, in which they have basically lived under a ‘siege’ mentality for decades. Thier geographic territory is so limited that the entitety of middle eastern Jewry could be extirpated by only a handful of nuclear weapons.

                  2) the Palestinian’s appear to be suicidally intent on bringing Isreal over the border into Gaza by escalating to full-scale bombardment of Iraeli territory following the assasination of thier second-in-command

                  3) The Iraeli’s effectively ‘outgun’ the entirety of the REST of the mid-east by a huge margin – given Syria’s removal from the equuation due to it’s current internecine warfare. Remember, basic intelligence estimates of Irael’s nuclear potential have a low end of 45 devices and a high end ” in excess of 155.”

                  4) Iran’s posturing over time has fanned a flame amongst the Iraeli’s to respond to those threats in a fashion which is FINAL and Iran (and previously Syria also) are the well-spring for the armaments with which the Palestinian’s are armed.

                      Taken in summa, the above do not suggest that Israel will be restrained in it’s response to the continued Palestinian aggression. They might well at this point elect to ‘finalize’ that circumstance also. Don’t look so good Friend, let’s all pray that no one does ANYTHING monumentally stupid at this point…the consequences – I think – will be nearly instantaneous. 🙁

                      Am going back to ‘hunt’ for a bit. Hey, you’ve been hittin’ it pretty hard lately…when’s the last time you got a good night’s sleep?….You can’t keep it up going 800 miles an hour ALL t he time! 🙂  Get some Rest, it’s in ‘His’ hands now.


                • @ JustOneGuy.  All I know is that after Egypt went into the muslim brotherhood as their leader, that anything that Iran or other arabs want to give to Hamas is now easily smuggled into Gaza.  When Israel and Egypt kept that 15 foot steel wall around the southern portion of Gaza practically nothing got into Gaza.  The original rockets were good for about one mile and had about a pound or two of explosives on it and hurt someone just once in awhile.  When Israel gave up its occupation of Gaza, more weapons got in, but nothing like when Egypt had the arab spring.

                  The city of Sederot has been the first to be hit by these “bottle” rockets when the arabs figured out how to make rockets better.  Then Ashqelon which is about 8 miles from Gaza started to get rockets, then Ashdod.  It was not until the Grad rockets from Iran and other arab countries that city like Beer Sheva started to get hit.  Then came the Fajr 3 and Fajr 5 rockets that Hezbollah used against Israel in 2006.  These rockets are quite large in comparison to what the Gazas were using.  The new Fajr 5 rocket from Iran has a 440 pound warhead on it and can travel about 90 km, the older Fajr 5 had a 385 pound warhead on it and could travel about 75-80 km.

                  The real issue for me is, did Iran trust Hamas with chemical weapons.  IF Hamas has VX gas and uses it, it can kill thousands.  VX is 60 times more lethal than Sarin with skin doeses and twice as so when inhaled.  VX is horrible as it gets into the pores of concrete and a nightmare to clean up.  To get an idea how hideous VX gas is and the tiny amount it takes to get on someone’s skin, you can take a vitamin capsule of say 500 milligrams, take 1/30 or so of the contents and that is how much it will take to get on someone’s skin to kill them.  Like a speck.  An artillery shell might have about 2 pounds of this sh^& in it or 1 kilogram, or 1,000,000 milligrams.  That one shell has about 65000 lethal dosages in it evenly spread out.  One shell would probably kill a couple hundred probably, but Hamas would probably use many shells rather than just one.

                  Here’s the thing, should Hamas go that direction of deploying chemical weapons.  That Iron dome that shoots down the rockets would have to do so with a chemical loaded rocket before it reached population centers.  I imagine that the rocket’s contents would setttle after being detonated like a mist or something.  I remember the descriptions of a chemical weapon in a rocket rather than something explosive, it explodes lightly above a target like a “phoof” sound.  If Hamas is insane enough to go this direction, Gaza will be carpet bombed and a large scale regional war will likely be on with Hezbollah and other arab countries, even with Egypt.  Lunacy over there.

            • It’s like an adult arguing with a 3 year old..I had a daycare for 4 years…walk away.

              Acknowledging just makes it worse.


        I predict a repub. backlash against Obama.

        Folks will now pull in the economic spending in protest of Obama.

        Business owners will start laying off as they prepare their enslavement costs of the obama healthcare for their remaining workers.

        In my own life…  We’re planning our businesses and are going to extreme lengths to automate everything to have nearly no real employees to speak of…just the founders.

        All you Occupiers can kiss our entrepreneur asses.  While you’re watching TV, we’re working late into the night.   You deserver to be poor.

        In the decades ahead, only the strong will survive.

        Kumbya my ass Obama!!!

        We don’t plan on having ANY employees!   



        • For now, OBlaBlacare only covers companies with over 50 employees. It would really suck to be number 50 or 51.

        • Greetings!

          To Love it!:So you’ll “punish” those who work for you because your “holy underwear using,American company destroying,we’re from a another planet and your not,lying tidy whitey Mitt” didn’t make the cut?Your response to the(admittedly flawed)health care system for ALL is a reflection of what appears to be a basic “F**K everyone else,we have ours.”It was the British Royalty’s attitude just like that brought about the American Revolution.It’s also the same hysteria that “big business” hyped when FDR set up Social Security(bet you’ll make DAMN sure you collect yours on that one!) .Unfortunately,it was added to so much we have the mess we have today.If import tariffs were equal to other countries,FAR less jobs would be lost.We’re seeing more and more the results of “Free Trade”( a Repocrate(both parties)misnomer pushed thru Congress that only benefits Multinational Corporations to the detriment of everyone else.We see how everyone has benefited from “deregulation” in the Banking sector and Wall-Street.Yes that “our boy lost so F**K everyone else” attitude is most fitting.When SHTF,and your hungry and sick,I’ll think about your comments as I stay safe and warm and eating MY food,in MY safe place and planning MY future without a care for your egoistic,self-centered person.Folk like you will be among the ones in the early die-off.Not my problem when wild dogs(human and four legged)EAT you(and yours) butt for dinner.As you said: “All you Occupiers can kiss our entrepreneur asses.  While you’re watching TV, we’re working late into the night. You deserve to be poor.”REALLY?We ALL die at some point as well,and I want to be there when you have to explain your comments to God and Jesus Christ.Do you recall the phrase:”do unto others as you would done unto you”?”As you have done to my followers so will I do unto you” ring a bell? You might take a moment to reflect from a spiritual perspective the final Judgement you’ll be facing for your actions TODAY.

          Or perhaps not,it may be too late for you and yours in God’s eyes already!

          All the best to everyone out there,hope you don’t work for the  “Love it”folks,they want to ruin your life BEFORE TSHTF.





        • And stop frequenting obama voting businesses–I just stopped speaking to my neighbor, next door, the others I don’t even know.

          I will not do business where they didn’t vote for that swine—even though the votes were stolen, their votes prove they are too stupid to fix my weedeater, etc.



      77. Obama boycott..

        Stuff I’m not spending money on this year..

        Disney trip



        eating out

        Anything china related…They just bought AMC movies….we don’t go.

        What’s on your list?   Pass it on…

      78. @ beinformed….my pleasure  …I know you work you ass off bringing us this data….keep it up …I for one greatly appriciate it.    :>)

      79. The Israeli government is under a massive cyber hacking attack now….wow…getting crazier and crazier. ( drudge report )

        • BPD ~  

          I’m looking for a related “internet kill switch” flipping to occur any time now.  Benji needs to be able to control the information that is causing many Israelis to begin to see the light of his evil.


          ~ D

          • Daisy

            In addition to the horrible casualties incurred by innocent children, it is apparent they are quickly attempting to silence all media outlets in Gaza as well….Al-Sharouk media center…was just hit again.

            It is quite the propaganda machine as all headlines label the entire Gaza strip as terrorists..really?

            Just wait til they roll in those armored 75,000 troops..the death toll by innocents will justified by our media as collateral usual.

            Of course media here is still infatuated with the Benghazigate nonsense about “he said she said”…what a bunch of crap..and a mere mention of the ongoing crisis in Gaza..and let’s not forget all is well now with the markets…

            I feel like I’m in a Twilight Zone episode that reruns and reruns endlessly..



      80. J1G,  what you said in 859977 is true, but allow me to take it further.   According to the federal and all 50 state supreme courts,  LE DOES NOT ‘PROTECT AND SERVE’ THE PUBLIC,  THEY SERVE AND RISK THEIR LIVES FOR  THE GOVERNMENT!  Protecting citizens is not part of a LEO’s job description.   They have no obligations to the public whatsoever.  They are just government employees.  There is no such person as a “public servant” .  The courts have ruled on this numerous times.  When anyof us get into a one-on-one situation with anyone trying to harm and/or kill us, WE ARE LITERALLY ON OUR OWN AND HAVE TO FEND FOR OURSELVES.  I’ve had relatives in LE who got out because of what they’ve seen the feds do to local, county, and state LE.  THEY’VE  EVEN TOLD ME TO NEVER TRUST A COP, AT LEAST NOT TODAY’S BREED.  Sure, SOME good people are still in LE, but that won’t be the case for much longer, i fear.   When we have to live in fear of LE as well as common criminals, you know something is wrong out here.  Check out a book titled “Dial 911 And Die” by Attorney Richard W. Stevens and published by Mazel Freedom Press, Inc.  he researched meticulously for this book and knows from where he speaks.   Everyone in the system;  judges, prosecutors, defense attorneys, police chiefs, county sheriffs knows what I’m saying is true, but will never dare to admit it in public.   Ask any of them yourself face-to-face and especially watch the looks on their faces.   Consider the things they get brainwashed with at the academies and it’s not hard to see why they can’t be trusted.   I can only wish the things I’ve said aren’t true, but when my own LEO relatives tell me; well, that’s really saying a lot.   it grieves me to think there will someday be a major confrontation between the public and LE/military all across this land.   I’m standing my ground regardless of who comes to harm or kill me, regardless of who they are.   Stay safe and keep prepping.   Braveheart

        • Motnin’ braveheart,

              Sorry I didn’t get back here sooner….been ‘hunting’ down something for BI – when I ‘dig-in’ I’m like an “alabama tick” so to speak.

              Thanks for the 411 on the LEO situation, that is situation I have no direct read on. Several of my nieces/nephews are military (long family tradition) and I’ve made sure to have ‘sit-down’s’ with each of them in the last few month’s. I’m well heartened by those dialogs…the ‘kid’s’ seem to be wholly on the right track…fully ‘awake’. 

              It occurs to me that each of us who have as family members those in the military or LEO SHOULD be engaging them in dialogue – Now – to “get things right” as it were. In the end everyone will make thier own decisions as to whether they take the fork to the right or the fork to the left of the junction, that can’t be helped, but I think it would be much better to have clarity before the fact rather than trying to ‘dig it out’ after the fact . Too, it might also be the case that that the need will exists – later – to ‘balance’ the one against the other, we’ll see soon I think.

      81. Okay, had another polar earthquake at a place that is uncommon for much of anything.  Only 9 times in the past 39 years had this area been hit with a 5.0+.  Out of those 9 times, 8 times there has been a 6.5+ earthquake within 15 days.  Those 8 spots include the very narrow range between Vanuatu to Tonga down to Kermadec Islands, northern Japan up to the Kuril Islands, Central Chile, and Jan Mayen Islands which later lead to a 7.8 in Central Chile later in the month.  So this area when hit seems to have a very narrow point to aim at 8 out of 9 times.   On top of the other earthquakes in the sub polar and polar region this makes the chance go up from 80% to closer to 82% chance of a good size shaker by Dec.1 for the other precusor polar activity, and by Dec.3 for this one. 

        It seems like all polar and sub polar earthquakes that happen, that you have that 75-90% chance of a bigger earthquake after it.  That range is strange as I have found that different areas fall into that 80% level.  I have tried to see if other areas after an area is hit outside the polar and sub polar range and the chance of a bigger one afterwards are terrible, many times in the 10%-30%.  So it seems by observing past activity that the plates show that the polar regions when active seem to be indications of bigger quakes to come. 

        On top of what JustOneGuy has brought up about the increased solar activity, it is pretty good bet that some serious earthquakes are coming.  By the all the other activity I would say the Soloman Islands to New Zealand, and South America west coast from Chile to Ecuador would be the best guess for something large, 7+.  That one on Friday has had many 7+ ones after that area was hit before.  If the earthquake does hit in South America and it is east of  about 65 degrees in longitude and 7+, the Caribbean plate will go totally critcal at that point. 

        • @BI, Thanks for this info, but it has me on edge as I live in one of the Caribbean Islands and for the past two years we have had radio commercials sponsored by the European Union to prepare for tsunamis in the region.  Funny thing is there is no alarm system to alert the populace, which is why I am grateful that I found this site and you.  

          How tragic do you think this would be for the islands?  I monitor the earthquakes every day, and on a daily basis there are about 4 to 5 around Puerto Rico and the Virgin Islands.  Last week there was a good sized one in Trinidad and I remembered you saying ‘watch Trinidad’.  

          Looking forward to your response with anticipation!

          Thanks a million for the work you put into this, after reading my scriptures, this site is the next thing for me daily.


      82. The nine most terrifying words in the English language are: ‘I’m from the government, and I’m here to help.’”

        – President Ronald Reagan

        • @ copperhead.  Like so many that were shocked by the letter that said “Greetings from the President”.

          • BI i got a damn good laugh ouy of that one,,,sounds like a draft notice to me




      83. @ daisy…interesting point…..makes perfect sense….didn’t Obama just hand control of the internet over to the un? All of this going on now seems to have all been planned in advace.

        • *tugs tinfoil hat securely over ears*

          Everything going on right now has been in the works for years – you need only to look at the horrifyingly invasive executive orders passed by Obama to see the future.


      84. Hamas ties ceasefire to end of Gaza border blockade, while Israel calls for end of rocket strikes   (Fox News)

        With Longer Reach, Rockets Bolster Hamas Arsenal (NY Times)  Hamas now has over 12,000 rockets.  The Iranian Fajr-5 long range rockets can reach Tel Aviv and Jerusalem.  Israel has deployed the Iron Dome missile defense shield, capable of eliminating as many as 85 percent of Hamas’ rockets. 

        “Israel has called up 30,000 reservists in preparation for a ground offensive to eliminate Hamas’ missile capacities.  While they are seeking a cease-fire that would forestall such an offensive, they are willing to invade Gaza if necessary.  They have 300 aircraft available for a campaign over Gaza, naval warships, and thousands of troops massed on the Gaza border.”

        Direct links below

      85. * advance…………..damn this keyboard

      86. Mr. Salvo,

        You might want to look into Obama’s new move to nationalize the retirement system and grabbing all the 401K & IRA money. 

        I believe that this system is in place in most Communist countries.

      87. Another thing we should take into consideration . If TSHTF in the form of a total collaps . Throw the concept of land ownership out the window ……….land ownership will be determined by those that have the numerical superiority , firepower and ruthlessness . Think of the Roman Empire collaps , Roman land owners watching the barbarian tribes move in ……..guess what ……..they no longer own the land and there was nothing they could do about it if they wanted to stay alive .

      88. Think about a boat…..   especially a sail boat…..    a home that can go anywhere in the world with weather routing……   be a permanent tourist or find an out of the way gunkhole to loiter at…..   

      89. Don’t try downloading the video, I did and not only did I not get the video, it automaticly changed my homepage and I’ve just spent the last hour trying to get my google page back! Thanks for nothing

      90. Don’t try downloading the video if you don’t want your homepage taken over. I’ve just spent the last 2 hours trying to get my google page back!

      91. I have the book, it is fantastic & Joel has resonded to my emails. I trust him, he is “top-shelf”>
        I have read his book over and over. Even if you don’t plan on moving, it is still helpful & insightful.

      92. Well if it’s too late to prep or you face a FEMA camp or one of those boxcars with shackles and guillotines then think about the reality after death. Everyone is accountable for their actions and the evil ones will face the terror they caused others.

        Death for those who have tried to live their lives in love, truth, honesty and simplicity and who are not inherently evil, will not be an event to be feared as many who have had near death experiences report and those come back often say they never wanted to come back. There are also those who speak of hell and who warn others about living good lives.

        Prepping has limitations and in every case will only buy extra time and that time will be short for various reasons even if one is in a secure deep underground military base with decades of supplies.

        All who have done a lot of research know this is the end of physical life on Earth.

        Here a list of what I know about the END OF THE WORLD and all life on it:

        1. Catastrophic pollution of environment by Genetically Modified Organisms (GMO’s) & pesticides
        2. Bees being wiped out by Neonicotinoids and pesticides and total collapse of the global food supply
        3. Chemtrails causing vitamin D3 and B12 loss causing global dementia
        4. Chemtrails contain aluminium, barium, strontium, blood, bacteria and viruses
        5. Morgellons from Chemtrails that contain nano engineered biological material
        6. Race specific genetically engineered Bioweapons material in Chemtrails
        7. HAARP weather weapons
        8. Solar decay caused by a number of planet sized alien craft in orbit around the Sun
        9. Solar changes including a large triangular hole used as an inter dimensional portal
        10. Return of the ancient sun gods travelling between star systems using stars
        11. Sun no longer generating vitamin D3 in humans and variable rates of isotopic decay
        12. Fukushima catastrophe
        13. Chernobyl disaster
        14. Leaking nuclear power plants
        15. Radiation from weapons including plutonium, uranium alloys and depleted uranium
        16. Toxic waste pollution
        17. Mercury in amalgam fillings, fish and vaccines, vaccines
        18. Toxic aluminium in the environment
        19. Total global financial collapse
        20. Launch of Titan (SKYNET) with all computer systems and weapons systems controlled
        21. World War 3
        22. Massive increase in alien and UFO activities (Evil Reptilian saucers versus Good Elohim plasma craft)
        23. All surviving humans to be microchipped with RFID and linked to Titan (SKYNET)
        24. CME (Coronal Mass Ejections)/Solar Flares wiping out all unshielded computers
        25. CME destroying all unshielded power systems and grid/water supply/distribution/transport
        26. CME/ElectroMagnetic Pulse wiping out all unshielded communication systems (not valves)
        27. Global Ice Age
        28. Pole Shift the poles (geographic and magnetic) and Planet Earth falling on its axis
        29. Planet X/Nibiru destroying the surface of Earth and pulling Earth and Moon out of orbit
        30. End of life on the surface of Earth and Deep underground Military Bases (DUMBs)
        31. End of life in Hollow Earth (Hollow Earth (Agarta) as reported by Admiral Richard Byrd Diaries)
        32. End of The Planet Earth
        33. End of The Physical Universe

        The physical will end but the consciousnesses or spirits will continue and those not evil will be able to live in a new reality without fear, punishment or loss forever free from all evil in a world filled with love, peace, harmony and bliss.

      93. I enjoyed reading all the posts here, I have one question, even if you have a full tank of gas to make the exodus, in my case we would have to stop somewhere for more before we reach our daughters rural home 550 miles away. IF it is really bad out there on the first day, that is not an option,I will be towing a small camper loaded with supplies. I have looked into gas storage, but I understand it evaporates. so could we rotate a stock of 5 5 gallon gas cans to keep a supply fresh for the shtf scenario??

        • hello,
          my dad is a mechanic. With the ethanol that is added in gas, it goes go bad. However, my dad says that you can store some gay for two months or so.

      94. The one solution for if bugging out that I may
        have missed while reading these post is a boat
        that is livable (i.e. heat, a head, bunks, stove
        and a refrigerator).
        We live in the Pacific North West and there are
        numerous lakes, reservoirs, and even access to
        traveling the inside passage to BC or to Alaska
        close by launching into Puget Sound.
        Some of the lakes, and reservoirs would require
        a 4X4 to tow the boat to them, and Ross Lake
        would require crossing the Canadian border to
        launch the boat at the North end of the lake
        (Ross Dam reservoir).

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