Strategic Relocation: One Of The Top Rated Areas In North America

by | Oct 14, 2014 | Headline News, Strategic Relocation | 279 comments

Do you LOVE America?


    This week’s Strategic Relocation Briefing from Joel Skousen has been contributed by the Strategic Relocation web site. If you’ve ever wondered about Montana and what living there might be like, where to look for land, and what considerations should be made before any relocation to a homestead of retreat, then keep reading. If Montana’s not your style then check out Joel Skousen’s previous strategic relocation briefings which cover regions on the east and west coasts, as well as top rated retreat areas in between.

    For those who know where they want to go, or simply want to explore some possibilities, check out the For Sale By Owner listings, features and tools at

    For answers to your questions about anything related to relocating, survival retreats and even financing options we urge you to speak with the industry’s leading professionals at Survival Retreat Consulting.

    montana-2(Glacier National Park, Montana)

    Strategic Relocation Briefing: Western Montana
    By Joel Skousen
    Author, Strategic Relocation and The Secure Home

    SR-logoThis week we’ll discuss another of the top rated areas in North America—Western Montana.  If it were a state by itself it would rate 5 stars in Strategic Relocation—just like neighboring Idaho and Utah.  But Montana is downgraded because of the Malstrom AFB (Great Falls) missile base, housing the largest number of Minuteman III missile silos in the US—a massive primary target which will someday absorb strikes from hundreds of nuclear warheads.  Remember, missile silos are not on the base itself, but spread out over tens of miles around the base in the heart of Montana farmland.  The state is also docked points for liberal control of the state government.

    But Western Montana is separated by high mountains from those missile fields and is not downwind of the massive fallout that will flow eastward for hundreds of miles—putting all of Eastern Montana at risk. Western Montana also has a different climate from Eastern Montana.  The main body of the Rocky Mountains separates Western from Eastern Montana and also keeps most of the dry, cold Canadian air mass from affecting Western Montana.  Although Western Montana gets cold and snow in the winter, it’s usually about 10-15 degrees warmer than eastern Mountain, not only because of the blocking effect of the mountains (Glacier National Park forms the northern part) but because warmer moist Pacific coast air flows come in from the West throughout  the year.

    Population density is a very low 8 ppl/sq.mi. (48th ranking in the nation), and minority compositions are also very low.  But, though most of the state is Caucasian, it’s not at all homogeneous.  It’s a mix of the old rancher and mining town lifestyle (lots of bars) and urbane newcomers from California and elsewhere looking for a new life in the “old west,” but often bringing their left/liberal views with them.

    Private land availability is only fair since the feds own or control 34% of Montana’s land. Building permits are required for all cities and counties, but many rural jurisdictions exempt  many forms of buildings for farm and ranch. Montana does have a comprehensive development plan, but it only mandates that each jurisdiction have a zoning commission, and does not mandate conformity with any state plan.

    Food production is good, although you need irrigation to do so, and the growing season is shortened by about a month overall compared to the more southern reaches of the US.  But Western Montana’s growing season is about 15 days longer than Eastern Montana. Water quality is excellent where fed by mountain springs but only fair from valley wells where agricultural pollutants are present. Air pollution is not a problem except downwind of a couple of factories.  There is very good solar potential in the East, but only fair in the West due to 7-8 months cloudy weather.

    Gun Liberty is good.  State law does not require a permit to purchase firearms, but is required to carry a concealed firearm in cities. Montana is an open carry state, even in a car or truck.  There is good availability for alternative medicine in the state. Home Schooling has low regulation, only requiring parental notification.

    The Montana economy is not very strong due to the governmental regulations that have severely impacted both mining and logging in the state. Montana is now mostly a ranching/agricultural and tourism service-based economy which is fairly weak. Eastern Montana is more like a mid-western state, but with little rainfall, very few roads, and a declining population. There are no towns over 10k in the East except for Billings.

    Western Montana is where the great outdoor living experience begins and where the best retreat sites are located.  However, even in this beautifully forested area, Montana has a Dr. Jekyll-Mr. Hyde personality.  There is significant tension between the liberal, rough, anti-religious segment of the population and the arch-conservative Christians who are increasingly drawn to Montana to seek liberty.  The Flathead Valley of Western Montana was chosen by former Presidential candidate Pastor Chuck Baldwin, and many conservatives have moved to Western Montana following his example, and even seeking to associate with his Liberty Fellowship Church—one of the few Churches in the nation that refused to be tempted by the tax deduction trap, and which is free to preach about any subject under the sun.  See for downloads of his always inspiring Sunday sermons.

    But the Baldwins have found that the good ‘ol boys network of legal and judicial corruption even exists in Montana paradise, as I outlined in a recent World Affairs Brief ( )  Democrats and liberals have had their way for so many years, they tend to react with real hostility toward the appearance of a conservative-Christian resurgence such as been happening in the Flathead Valley.

    I was just up in that the Flathead Valley consulting with some clients and it is becoming increasingly difficult to find good land at reasonable prices.  A lot of Californians have moved into the Whitefish area and so real estate prices have been driven higher.  The mountains have a lot of hard rock layers just under the surface, so building basements in mountainous areas requires costly blasting.  However, in the broader valleys coming out of the mountains there is enough alluvial fill that basements are possible.  The mountains taper down to the valley floor gradually so there are lots of good farm/retreat sites in the lower elevations, with some forestation.  I prefer the southwest side of the Flathead valley so that you get the best solar advantage.  Todd Savage’s Strategic Relocation Realty sites specializes in this area so be sure and check before searching for property in Western Montana.

    Other areas to consider are the Bitterroot Valley area:   This is a 3,500’ elevation ranching valley close to the Idaho border, and gives residence the security backdrop of this massive Bitterroot mountain wilderness area.  The slightly lower elevation and distance from the Montana plains also makes this a bit warmer in the wintertime (but it is still cold, with lots of snow on the ground). A lot of wealthy people have built cabins and ranches in the area, so prices are no longer cheap. The town of Hamilton itself is no longer recommended since the government built a Biosafety Level 4 biohazard laboratory there as part of the Rocky Mountain Laboratories. This facility has begun operations using highly-pathogenic organisms, which if released could be very dangerous. Darby, at the southern most end of the valley is the safest area.

    The Clark Fork Valley Region is an extension of the drainage system feeding Lake Pend Oreille in Idaho. This valley is a mountain range apart from the I-90 freeway that feeds traffic from Idaho to Montana, and is very isolated and safe—perhaps too isolated if you need to travel often. It is situated between the Bitterroot and Cabinet Mountains.  There are numerous small towns in the valley—all safe: Plains,Thompson Falls, Belknap, Trout Creek, Noxon, and Heron.  The growing season is shortened in the valley by the restrictions to available daylight in a mountainous area.

    There are hundreds of other retreat sites in these mountain valleys, too numerous to mention.  As long as you avoid being close to the I-15 or I-90 corridor, you should be relatively safe.  There are no major population centers here, so little threat of mass social unrest except those fleeing from the Seattle area on I-90 during a war scenario.  Remember too, that Western Montana is downwind of Seattle should fallout occur so every home should have a fallout shelter and Safe Room built into a basement space.


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      1. You ever try to garden in western Montana? The growing season is like 3 weeks long. Winters are too harsh and too long as well.

        • American Siberia. Brrrrr!

          • You’ll be the most free icicle in America.

            • one of the nation’s major bioweapons research labs is located in northern Montana, near Havre I recall. Doesn’t sound good to me. Also, what are rads from fukushima up there?
              beautiful land.

              • Montana? … Right.

                Montana is FBI/CIA/FedGov Central!

                No thanks!!!

                Hey… why don’t y’all relocate to below the Wasatch Range in Utah?

                I here it’s a swell place to hide.

                Mormons (one anyway) say so.

                • Montana sounds great! Everyone should go there! 🙂

                  • I lived in Darby for 1 year, Hamilton for 2, and Missoula for about 6 months. The Bitterroot is one of my favorite places period. While no longer there, I do think that a well establish base of personal operations in a harsh winter environment is advantageous because of the harsh climate problems it presents to refugees, gangs, looters, marauders, etc (kind of like Germany being beat by that harsh ruskie winter on the eastern front during WW2).

                  • Sterling I think you made an excellent comment, well thought out. My only question would be, why did you leave? Trekker Out. Free Men Own Guns, Slaves Don’t!

                  • Been there. Great trout fishing on the Gallatin River and in Glacier Park. Just watch out for the G-Bears, especially in Glacier Park.

                  • I remember when Alaska became a state, the
                    government was giving out land grants to
                    anyone who would go there and live for four
                    years and they could own it, trying to
                    populate our new state.
                    They were called “The Fifty-Niners.”
                    It was quite a migration, indeed.
                    Never the less, after about a decade the
                    great migration had dwindled down to one
                    family remaining who could survive it all.

                  • @Mountain Trekker: I lived and worked as a roofing contractor in the Bitterroot in the 90’s but when the area saw an influx of California money move in and it started to grow and change, I pushed out for a smaller and more isolated area, still in the crispy climate of the Northwest.

                    I’m definitely a 4 season fan. I don’t like hot summers (humid or dry) and quite enjoy the beauty of winter. My personal preference.

                • YMWW, I know we don’t often agree on certain things, but I will agree with you on Montana. Been there once, gorgeous country, but lousy people and climate. I’ll stick with my beloved South.

            • “Glacier National Park”… which no longer has glaciers, due to Catastrophic Climate Change (Increase in Over-all Global Temperature)…

              So what should we call it now?

              • Didn’t Ebola just tell Americans two weeks ago that Obama would never get to our shores?

                Oh wait a minute, I might have that backwards!

                You just can’t trust anything from Africa!

                • OT: Nurses boyfriend hospitalized for possible ebola…


                  • Yup!

                    And on a good note, the patient in Kansas tested negative.

                    Any word on the one in Boston?

                  • OT: Heads up Louisiana….

                    LA says NO to TX Obola Waste

                    State Attorney Seeks ‘Restraining Order’ to Stop Texas Ebola Waste Entering Louisiana Landfiill!

           dot com/watch?v=xF3Sddt2le8

                    (the usual… replace dot…)

                    Has been reported that six truckloads of potential Ebola contaminated material collected from the apartment where the Dallas Ebola victim became ill were brought to Port Arthur, Texas on Friday to be processed at the Veolia Environmental Services incinerator. From there the incinerated material is slated to be transported to a hazardous waste landfill in Louisiana for final disposal.

                    Caldwell said the unknowns involved surrounding the Ebola virus have the state wanting to proceed with caution.

                    “We certainly share sadness and compassion for those who have lost their lives and loved ones to this terrible virus, but the health and safety of our Louisiana citizens is our top priority,” he said. “There are too many unknowns at this point, and it is absurd to transport potentially hazardous Ebola waste across state lines.This situation is certainly unprecedented and we want to approach it with the utmost caution. We just can’t afford to take any risks when it comes to this deadly virus.”


                • BJ, that was a good one.

                • I’m a Texan, but that judge in SE Texas is a dumbass. If I were in La, I wouldn’t want Ebola, whether alive or dead, near me.

                  He wants la lawyers to study Ebola, otherwise they’re ignorant.
                  What else should they study, so they won’t be ignorant? Let’s send rats in a barrel across state line so la lawyers have to study what diseases rats carry and the proper welding techniques for rat barrels, so they can write regulations properly. And, why stop there?

              • Glacier National Park does have glaciers. The National Park Service, however, claims that global warming will melt them by 2030.

                Of course, since we haven’t had any global warming since the 1990s, I wouldn’t bet on it.

                So it’s still Glacier National Park and will be for the foreseeable future.

                You might want to buy a heavier coat for this winter.

              • You think China might cut their carbon to atmosphere?

            • To U.S. – but free…

          • Okay people, I live in Central Montana. You people have no idea how cold it gets. Last year we had a week straight of -40 BEFORE wind chill, that turned it to -72 on average. Montana has two seasons, winter, and pre winter. Yes I love it here i really do, but if it hits the fan I am headed SOUTH. to attempt to survive w/o electricity in the winter time is insane. However if you are part eskimo,no offence people, it is a great place. We are nice hard working love guns, big trucks, and strangely enough,we love to hunt. Imagine that,the state with the most diverse wildlife and people like to hunt. THis is a hugely long post. I am really sorry. Ill awnser any questions though about the area. First, Northern Mt is coldest, Eastern is open and few wooded areas, Central is the snow bowl, Western has all the granolas, And southern has a huge touristy park. Johnny In Mt, Is out and done with a rant.

            • Johnny, I agree with most of what you say. I, too, live in central Montana, which I call eastern Montana because I grew up in western Montana. Eastern Montana is the best, but you have to be pretty hardy to live there. I couldn’t stand living in western Mt with all the California granolas. Just too many people over there anymore. I have to live where there are more animals than people.. We can grow most anything out here. Much of western Mt is so high that it’s growing season is way shorter than ours. But the people are down to earth, conservative, and Christian. If you don’t fit the model don’t come.

        • I’m not going any damn where. I am prepared to kill and I am prepared to die. At least I’ll be a man about it. Fuck the government, fuck the corporations, fuck the UN, and fuck anyone that supports these things.

          • You sure are doin’ a lot of friggin’. Hope you get enough rest to kill somebody.

          • FP – Sharing your true feeling, got it…I’m with you…

        • Plenty of unprepared bug-outers to eat.

        • Freezing in Montana will not be the problem most likely. Notice where Yellowstone National Park is located in relation to Montana. When she blows – crispy critters will be everywhere – the two legged kind. Strange things are happening in Yellowstone already these days. Read the reports. Yeah – good place to park.

        • Montana the slant eyed JAPS own most of that state

        • Never got to Montana (Idaho was the coldest I have ever been and I believe Montana is even colder?) last time in the US but I have views on these bitterly cold places as retreat locations…..

          In total grid down, no one, I repeat NO ONE is gunna head to places like that unless they have a place to go already, such as a retreat or friends/relatives who will take them in. So at least in that respect you will not see many of the “Golden Horde” and should be left pretty much alone. Trying to survive in a tent in a state forest or camper trailer at 30 below would get very old very quick.

          And your place had better be able to sustain itself heating wise through the Winter or you will die. No ifs or buts – you will die! This means wood that you cut by the truckload in Summer for heating and plenty of the right kind of clothing.

          Where I live in Aussie it is maybe just a few degrees on average warmer in Winter than Portland Oregon without the constant rain. Take away grid power, propane or oil heating and survival here would be tough enough in grid down.

          In a slow slide or depression type event when services and supplies are still more or less available Montana (or Idaho and the like) would be doable – tough, but doable.

          Maybe someone who has spent a Winter in Montana on a ranch or similar could give us their views?

          There is a little place in the desert between Phoenix and Los Angeles called Quartzite that I drove through. In Winter, 000’s upon 000’s of people from up North who cant afford heating or put up with the cold, mostly retirees who live in motor homes, head for places like Quartzite and set up “towns”. They have generators, satellite TV’s, and tow small runabout cars using A frames with them – all fine while there is gas for the Winnebago and generator but they are outta luck if it goes belly up.

          Another thing to think about – when wood is the only form of heating the easy stuff will get scooped up pretty quick and you’ll have to go further and further to get it. How are you going to get it home if there is no gas for your truck?


          • Shoot…if you’re afraid of MT for cold, better not ever even THINK about setting foot in ND. I’m wanting to move to MT or ID to GET AWAY from the cold. Coure d’Alene is consistently 20 or 30 degrees warmer than where I’m at for most of the winter. I have it on my locations so I can drool over the nice winter weather there.

            Here it takes maybe 10 cords to heat a decent-sized house for the winter. Not sure how that tails off the warmer it gets, but I’m guessing you could get by with maybe 8 cords in most places in the mountains if you’re not TOO high up.

            I do know a couple of preppers out on the prairie that like their location for just that reason, though. If SHTF arrives in the winter, no way will anyone be wandering around out there. It’s just not possible. You’ve gotta have some kind of bolthole or you die, simple as that. My problem with those kinds of locales is the visibility. The smoke from your chimney is visible for miles, maybe tens of miles in some cases. That doesn’t strike me as very good.

            • There are a number of serious problems with the northern tier of states. Solar just will not work in the winter when you need it most. It’s cold – meaning you get to cut firewood – that eventually means visible smoke to make you easy to find. Two other problems with firewood – you cannot cut it and split it quietly — and you have to stack a lot of it up, making opsec that much harder. You can bear the cold, but can your crops survive a freak summer snowstorm? If not then you go hungry. If you have electricity, it’s a great place. If the lights go out, not so much. One more thing is that many northern residents are handy with firearms. You absolutely will see roving bands of hungry thugs visiting you by following your smoke or chainsaw.

        • Paul,perhaps solar grow lights and a dedicated building to expand a growing season for food (or whatever crops you had in mind!).

        • I just harvested my garden which grew for 4 months. Here in the Flathead valley we have mild winters and hot summers. But those of us who live here discourage anyone from moving here!

        • I’m sitting in Thompson Falls right now. My garden is still producing… we haven’t had a frost yet. I planted in May. As far as the winters, I’ve been in colder weather in northern Oklahoma than here.

          Parts of Clark River valley are considered either a zone 5b or 6, depending on your source.

          But feel free to keep thinking that this place is horrible… and tell all your friends too!!!

          • I tried to ride my motorcycle from Wallace Id to Thompson Falls through the road next to the old copper mine. 600lb bike only made it half way before I had to turn around.

        • Greenhouse materials are so cheap nowadays, you can make one for less than $200 bucks. It’s better than not trying.

      2. This one is dedicated to some screaming woman in FLA, and since there was no name attached, this could have by written by KillMyWife.

        The FBI had an opening for an assassin. After all the background checks, interviews and testing were done there were 3 finalists. Two men and a woman.

        For the final test, the FBI agents took one of the
        men to a large metal door and handed him a gun.

        “We must know that you will follow your instructions no matter what the circumstances. Inside the room you will find your wife sitting in a chair.
        Kill Her!!!”
        “The man said, “You can’t be serious, I could never shoot my wife”
        The agent said, “Then you’re not the right man for this job. Take your wife and go home.”
        The second man was given the same instructions. He took the gun and went into the room. All was quiet for about 5 minutes. The man came out with tears in his eyes, “I tried, but I can’t kill my wife.”

        The agent said, “You don’t have what it takes. Take your wife and go home.”
        Finally, it was the woman’s turn. She was given the same instructions, to kill her husband.
        She took the gun and went into the room.
        Shots were heard, one after another. They heard screaming, crashing, banging on the walls.
        After a few minutes, all was quiet. The door opened slowly and there stood the woman, She wiped the sweat from her brow.
        “This gun is loaded with blanks” she said.
        “I had to beat him to death with the chair.”
        MORAL : Women are evil
        Don’t mess with them !!!!!!!!
        And no one was really hurt with this joke, but some need to be, I do not want to cross any woman if possible… And watch out whom you listen to here, some will get you terminated.
        ht tps://
        About how you cannot copyright a joke

        ht tps://
        About our Sun being a star, NOT A PLANET

        • Don’t come to Wyo, Lions tigers and bears, plague, Indians blizzards. Stay away, all you people don’t like Ca, or Mass, but as soon as you get here you start trying to make the pace just like the one you left. stay HOME!

          • Paranoid,do see that in Hampster,I came here from Mass. as I liked it,see many coming and trying to change it,not for the better!As I said in other post,drawing a line in the sand!I may be a asshole,but am not a Masshole!Side ?,tigers and lions eh?

            • Hey Eppe, that one was pretty good. I forwarded it to my wife, she responded “yup whatever it takes”. I think I’ll have to watch my back for a couple of days, don’t want her getting any ideas.

              Anyway, I’ve been away from the computer for nearly two weeks. Looking forward to catching up on the conversations here at shtf. Last time I was here we were missing a couple of the regulars. BI, JayJay, FPB,… Any sightings of them or still awol?


              • Guess they got tired of ‘certain’ posters here, like most of us are tired of them too. But is a free speech site, so we just put up with thier spewings…

                • Yup, ya gotta take the good with the bad

                  • Yep like salt and pepper, honest earning people and lying thieves. Cut n paste theft. They will all be sorted out in the end.

                    Here is the original Joke: CIA not the FBI

                    The CIA had an opening for an assassin.
                    After all the background checks, interviews and testing were done, there were three finalists: two men and a woman.

                    For the final test, the CIA agents took one of the men to a large metal door and handed him a gun. “We must know that you will follow your instructions no matter what the circumstances. Inside the room you will find your wife sitting in a chair… kill her!”
                    The man said “You can’t be serious. I could never shoot my wife.” The agent said, “Then you are not the right man for this job. Take your wife and go home.”
                    The second man was given the same instructions. He took the gun and went into the room. All was quiet for about five minutes. The man came out with tears in his eyes, “I tried, but I can’t kill my wife.” The agent said, “You don’t have what it takes, so take your wife and go home.”
                    Finally, it was the woman’s turn. She was given the same instructions… to kill her husband. She took the gun and went into the room. Shots were heard, one after another. They heard screaming, crashing, and banging on the walls. After a few minutes, all was quiet.
                    The door opened slowly and there stood the woman, wiping sweat from her brow. “This gun is loaded with blanks,” she said. “I had to kill him with the chair.”


                  • Funny, I copied that joke from an email dated 2007, maybe I should go worship the planet we call the sun, and cull everyone who has faith, if the readers want me to stop posting jokes, no problem, it’s just I do not listen to a drunk who cannot spell, warped thinking, and thinks they are the god of the internet. Acid\Sybil needs your loving…

                  • The FBI does not hire assassins, the CIA Does. Maybe you changed the names to avoid copy right infringements. lol

                    You should stick to your fishing crackers invention, your joke stealing handicap sucks.

              • Oh my God I was spitting coffee all over my key board, even my dog was rolling on the floor, the corn cob ears started curling, the carpet vacuumed itself, the lights started blinking, oh way too funny, I just am laughing for hours here. I can’t take it, keep em coming, just way over the top, my wife just busted her stitches, you are a real hoot that eppe, what a card, he is soooooo funny….

                • Here’s the kicker, I wrote this Anonymous comment above Oh My God, spitting coffee, mocking the other hicks on here, and just to grease your ego, and the other hicks bought into it on here and all green thumbed me. Too funny. Yeah you are a real hoot eppe. The Joke is on you sucka.. sooooooo funny… You idiots are so gullible. When SHTF you are doomed.

                  • WWTI, a legend in his own mind. Still going to cull us all? Or better yet, please explain where humanity started, since you have yet to do so? You are also eppe’s dog, we figured you out a long time ago. YOU ARE THE REASON MANY PEOPLE DO NOT COME HERE, or are you too dense to figure that out? Just go AWAY.

                  • WWTI, I’ll tell you what sucks and that is you bashing Eppe and everyone else here for no good reason, so why don’t you just dry up and blow away.

            • WD, Para … Never ceases to amaze me how people move from one state to another to supposedly get away from the “bad” things about the state they’re moving from and immediately start turning their newly adopted state into the shithole they left.

              Just goes to show you that you can’t change a zebra’s stripes.

              • @ Navy Vet,
                Not just states, but countries….
                See islamic shitholes, mexico, africa, etc. etc…

              • Oh Yeah Navy…that observation should be CARVED in stone, …Hell CORINTHIAN MARBLE!, so EVERYONE can remember it! That sh_t is a bloomin’ INFECTIONB man…just like OBOLA! 🙂

              • That My friend is a Closet Yankee.

            • WCD, Did the same thing…you have to go at least as far north as the lakes and preferably further..

              • EV,yep love Bartlett(pricey for N.H.) and beyond,Coos county I like but hate they put a fed prison there.One can be out side of Lebanon about 20+ miles,the living is nice,and close to Vt. for family/friends White River ect.

          • I offer for your advisement that the great hideaways discussed among prepper sites have now become secondary targets for the corp and designated as prime spots to start the rural conquest of America after Ebola wipes out the main population centers.

            Relocate quietly to any place that is not being promoted as a “safe place”. The mere designation of a place as a “safe space” prevents it from being one.

            • Second Foundation. If I have to explain it, you wouldn’t understand.

            • Op Sec?

              The best advice I have seen is to bug in. Take some old clothes, broken furniture and trash and scatter them all over the front yard.

              It really gives it that “pre-looted” look, and most won’t bother to give it a second look.

          • ‘Noid,

            Friend! you need to LEARN to be more Friendly!… otherwise how are you going to get the opportunity to meet all those nice new LIBERALS….acting like that?!

            /sarc off

            Adios All 😉

          • Paranoid, I don’t think we really have to worry to much. I think Wyoming is a little to rough. Atleast for the short term, you don’t see many from California coming here, most are from the more conservative parts of the country like the South or Midwest. Trekker Out.

            • Ya? You remember it was only2 weeks ago the Big O said we didn’t have to worry about Ebola? Same as we don’t have to worry about liberals.

              • “You remember it was only2 weeks ago the Big O said we didn’t have to worry about Ebola? Same as we don’t have to worry about liberals.”

                Yep… and both will come into an area and totally f*** it up. Viruses tend not to be as bad as libs, though. At least viruses don’t run around voting for weird s**t all the time nor do they consider your money and property to be theirs.

          • Too late. Left Jackson Hole because it turned into hollywood with snow. NEXT!

          • BINGO, same here in s.w. N.M. Cali,and lots of illegals and green carders.Make us a 3rd world society, too bad, a cryin’ shame………………….Fast & Furious is TREASON……..

          • BINGO, same here in s.w. N.M. Cali,and lots of illegals and green carders.Make us a 3rd world society, too bad, a cryin’ shame………………….Fast & Furious is TREASON……..

        • Well,drawing line in the sand in Hampster unless you can gaurentee another spot obola/powers that want to be/progressive/ect. free!Also,as a yank,hate zombies,really need a plan for em,any thoughts?!

          • Well, zombies can’t hack solid masses of mosquitoes and black flies, so I’d suggest northern Maine instead. Millinocket, maybe? The whole area to the west of Rt. 11 is devoid of paved roads for 50 miles, easy to get lost in.

            • Coach,was in Lincoln this season,just short of the kingdom of the north,yep,you folks do have a insect protection system going!

          • Put up billboard, “We are very family orientated here. If cohabiting, marriage license and proof of being related required.”

            • Not quiet Burt, I really don’t care what people do. Your relationship with God, boyfriends, girlfriends, or goats, is YOUR PROBLEM! Some guy said something like: “Judge not least you be judged”, I don’t remember who; likely some no account liberal. But I agree with him on that. Oddly he said several things I agree with. To bad I seem to be the only one. Just keep it out of my way and if it gets you in trouble, like
              aids; that’s also none of my business or cost.
              Marriage is same way you want a church wedding fine that’s the churches business, you want a civil union with some dude, that’s also fine. I see no reason your “partner” of choice cannot get in to the hospital because he’s not family.
              But I’m not responsible for you, and if I don’t want to pay your spouses medical, that’s my privilege. It’s what we call freedom, or used to.

              • Oh you will pay. For abortions, birth control, death panels, and sensitivity training.

                What else do you think we are spending all your taxes on, infrastructure?

                My wife has returned to college, and she is not involved in politics at all, but cringes at the multi-culture white privilege hate America liberal schooling that she paid for. I dared her to speak her true beliefs in class and get a passing grade.

              • “Freedom” is a coin with TWO sides… the other side says “Responsibility” on it. They go together, although some never look at the back of that coin.

        • Good joke,an oldie but a goodie.As for sun link about it being a star,did I miss some idiotic post earlier?!Eppe,hope all is well on the home front.

          • War, mom seems better, just paid off house, family well, never seen a copywrite joke, the sun is a star, just have a hemmoroid here that is a royal pain. How you doing?

            • Eh,personal SHTF here,but,carrying thru,hope to be out of the muck for lack of a better word soon,am glad to hear your mum is doing better.

        • Eppe, another good one, but in real life, the woman would’ve gotten the job anyway just because of affirmative action.

        • Eppe, “MORAL : Women are evil”

          A…and don’t you forget it 🙂

      3. We can walk, crawl and run. Good luck on the hiding part.

        It’s going to get tougher.

        • I just got an email from a friend with a video of a Dakota Fire Pit. Anyone heard of them or tried them out, looks like it would be a very good method of building a fire and keeping a low profile in the wilderness. Looks like it would be quick and easy to cover, even if they were searching from the air. Trekker Out. Si vis pacem, para bellum!

          • MT … The two big advantages of the Dakota Fire Pit are that the firelight is hidden along ground level, as long as you don’t add too much fuel and that the fire doesn’t generate a lot of smoke, since it has an added draft hole making the fuel burn hot, thus less smoke. Kinda like a rocket stove in the ground. You can still smell them when approaching from down wind.

          • There is no such thing as a low profile fire. You idiots have never done the things you talk about. I can tell from several mountains away if there are people up there at night even without seeing the flame.


            • Son, just keep playing in that little woodlot behind your house, and leave the real Mountaineering to us grown folks. And remember, that light that you see at the end of the tunnel is my Surefire, mounted on my AR. Trekker Out. AE,Come To The Light!

              • Both Sybil and wwti are legends in thier own mind, if they mated, what would be the ‘tailend’ result???

                • Eppe, I don’t think I want to know the answer to that one. Most likely something that will HAVE to be shot.

            • Acid, Hate you tell ya, but MT Trekker is right on this one. Go to Youtube and look up Dakota fire pit. You dig a hole, and a intake tunnel. The hardest thing to hide is not the flame but the smoke, which you can disperse if built under some large pine trees that will split up the smoke among the branches and limbs as it rises. The flame usually stays below the ground level. Check it out, never to late to learn something new.

            • Eisenturd, how do you know what any of us do or don’t do? go back to your fantasy land.

            • Acid, there are a lot of folk that would like to practice on your head. most of us will survive but you’ll go under because you yap too much.

          • YUP, without a rocket stove or emberlite, I would dig a Dakota. Dry wood, good/small flame and little to no smoke. All you need to get a meal workin’.(and coffee)

            • Recently discovered rocket stoves, esp combined with a thermal store. Efficient and cheap way to heat a house.


            • PO’d Patriot, I just recently bought an Emberlite stove but not yet tried it. I will experiment with it soon and give a review. Only $39.95 at Bass Pro Shop.

      4. Hi everyone.
        Still quietly prepping away. Been honing my lock picking skills this last month. Brought set of picks online, but have now made my own to my preferences in my workshop.

        Things seem calm in the uk, most people dont seem to be worried about the ebola virus. Been stocking up on fish antibiotics, esp the respiratory ones.

        Birthday soon, so gettin another crossbow. Also been making lots of wine as we’ve had bumper crop of gooseberries an blackberries this summer.

        Anyway, regards to all.

        • Richard,what kinda crossbow you getting?As for lock picking skills,shtf a sledge hammer will be fine.

          • Dont want to carry a sledgehammer or boltcutters in my bug out bag, too heavy… an besides, my bogota picks are 4 inches long and easy to conceal. My home made ones are even smaller. Its also about non destructive entry, being able to conceal my access. I live near snowdonia national park, an all the good parts are thru locked gates!!!

            Wolverine magnum by armex is the xbow im getting. Its 150pound an is basically a sawn down rifle xbow. Uses all the spares from one of my other xbows. As you guys know, firearms are hard to get here in uk.


            • Ah,didn’t realize you were across the “pond”.You probably have seen this but one of your brethren,who unfortunately died,had this page as he didn’t seem to “agree”with your govt.s approach to firearms,a good /informative read and at times funny: ht tp:// ,put in a space http to avoid the “Moderation Game”.Have fun with your magic lock opening set!

              • Thanks warchild, not seen that one before. Gonna study it now. Have some knowledge of improvised firearms, but can always use more… in a shtf situation be nice to have more force multipliers. The hard bit is locating the ammo over here.

                Really worry that someone will take my preps if shtf, if you cant protect it, you dont own it.

                • Richard,he covers that in a home made fashion also,read and print(on someone elses printer,opsec and all!”.

                  • Great site warchild many thanks. Of course I would never manufacture any firearms as thats against the law, and I am a law abiding citizen. But if shtf all bets are off…

                    For those interested in opening doors without a shotgun or sledgehammer…

                    Lock picking 101 is a US website, has lots of good stuff there.

                    An on utube, bosnianbill has some great video tutorials for those wanting to learn the basics. He’s also American, no idea why hes called bosnianbill…

      5. Its going to take more than a large house full of communists to get me to move.

        • If that house was next door to you, ya might think differently.

          • Five gallons of gas, what’s the problem?

          • If I knew what was in there it would soon be vacant. I have no qualms.

          • Perhaps Dave,or just burn down the house next door!

            • “Hot lead” works wonders on commies. Problem solved.

      6. Montana is beautiful. I instantly liked it, felt a freedom.

      7. Looks nice. Would probably consider it, if I had all the money in the world and didn’t need to work.

        Think I’ll stay here in New Hampshire, and deal with the tourist here.

        Worse case I buy-out to my vacation place in Vermont.

        • AOWG;
          I agree, unfortunately money is in short supply at the moment. I’ll have to tough it out here in NJ.

          But given a choice, western Montana would be in my top 5 places to relocate to.


          • Toughing it out in Jersey includes dealing with the countries largest population of MS13 gang members. My plan is the same. I wish I could hit the lottery and get out of this place/ move my family somewhere nice. I guess I’ll just have to continue working and having my paychecks skimmed by good Ol’ Barry O.

        • AOWG … seems to be more than a couple of Granite Staters here.

          • Yep,will admit though,I was a transplant and still travel New England to work.

            • My wife and I traveled throughtout New England to work also. Lately I’ve been lucky and working 10 minutes from the house.

              No transplants though, I’m fifth generation Granite Stater and my wife’s ancestors was here to greet the Piligrims.

      8. Lord, but Montana is BEAUTIFUL!!

        Went through Glacier/Waterton in 96. Up the Road to the Sun, watching all those gorgeous ‘antique-style woody’ buses taking people up and down. Lake Louise is also a truly awesome sight, as well. Only thing about the ‘Road to the Sun’ is that the edges of the road are marked with 30′ high poles striped black and yellow. I asked a Ranger what those were for, he said, “Oh those…they’re THERE so we can KNOW where the edge of the road is…in WINTER.”

        nuff said…

        • Mr R,
          left you a message in the last article.


          • Howdy-doo GR!

            Affirmatibe Friend…going there…now!

            Adios Alles! Andele’ Andele’…ariva, ariva 🙂

            • Back at ya!


              • 🙂

      9. Montana is gorgeous, plenty of good reasonably priced real estate in reasonable areas, very harsh winters.
        I do not believe, that the “golden hordes” from Seattle/Portland-Land-of-MarxistProgressives, will have the capability to reach Montana, prior to expiring or being exterminated by the good people of Western Washington and Idaho. The MarxistProgressives, never plan, never prepare for anything that is beyond their personal and political ideology. they won’t make it past Rainer Park, before they run out of gas, figuratively and literally. Expecting them to go on foot is ludicrous.

      10. After the obola depop, CT is gonna look pretty quiet. If you can keep your head down for a year it might be good here.

      11. If the government says ebola is here, people have died, and it’s time to rethink our protocols then nobody panics because…it’s all PART OF THE PLAN, even if the plan is horrifying, and AN AUTHORITY FIGURE HAS ACKNOWLEDGED THE PROBLEM, even if nothing has been done to solve it.

        If the preppers say ebola is here, people have died, and it’s time to rethink our protocols, well then people just loose their minds because…WE ARE PEOPLE WHO HAVE ACCEPTED THE CHAOTIC NATURE OF LIFE, and WE ARE OUTSIDE THE MAINSTREAM AND “LEGITIMATE AUTHORITY”.

        • You’re already a dollar short and a day behind, SPROUT!

          • I just love it when these wet tail puppies keep bumping into something and say, “Golllllieeeee”!

            • You wouldn’t say the things to my face that you say on here, shitbird.

              • I’d say it to your face, coward.

                Why don’t you make some videos of you being “ALPHA”, so we can all get a good laugh.

                You are just another keyboard warrior. Everyone you berate out-skills you. You have yet to contribute ANYTHING of value to any discussion so far. Your type will be the first to get killed, simply by opening your mouth.

                • Good evening, townsaver. tell it like it is to eisenturd. He lives in one of the biggest fantasy worlds I’ve ever seen.

              • Acid I will agree with you on that one. Lots of Marsh Mellow Pusswads on here that won’t last a few day into SHTF, they will pee their panties as they get their asses handed to them. Some will try to tell jokes to their attackers, and just get blasted.

                • You two need to go get a room.

                • WWTI, any one of us ‘old farts’ can take on you or eisenturd. You 2 are the ones who won’t last long after the balloon goes up.

                • Just hold that thought sonny.

              • Wake up Acid, you’re dreaming again. Got to quit eating bananas before bedtime.

              • LMAO, Yes I would with pleasure.

      12. I just had to move from North-West Montana because the work is far and few between and the economy is awful. rent is stupid high and the pay rate stupid low. Not to mention DHS and border patrol are everywhere around Kalispell and surrounding towns. Not a preppers heaven either, the climate is not friendly for gardens nor are the animals.

      13. Lost me when they said lots of Californians are moving there, old KY is where I will stay and die!

        • They lost in the third sentence,

          “But Montana is downgraded because of the Malstrom AFB (Great Falls) missile base, housing the largest number of Minuteman III missile silos in the US—a massive primary target which will someday absorb strikes from hundreds of nuclear warheads.”

          I can hear them at the local tourism office now, “You should have seen how beautiful it was here, before all those nuclear warheads got dropped on us.”

          • Just think of the Real Estate Agents sales pitch,”Since the nuclear war, Eastern Montana provides a wonderful picturesque glow at night.”

          • Lmbutto!

        • Good Call! I’m staying right up the road in rural southern Indiana hills. Its a little populated but at least its populated with the right kind!!! Good neighbors are better than no neighbors in most cases

          • Hey, sweetie not from from you will be ok!

        • That right MommaD(arling) Like me, I know the terrain. I don’t need to wander or think twice. I know what I need to do.

          • I know sweetie, them deer trails will take ya home……gotta go though, muzzled loader season starts Friday and and I am hopin ta bring somrthin in. This old old lady never gives up! It is called huntin not killin and its called called fishin and not catching!

            • I will also say there are more good women on here with guts as I can see in their determined writing than quite a few old guys on here keyboard commanders talking crap. I would take a good lady any day in SHTF survival, over a useless jokester talker that offers nothing, who couldn’t find his boot straps from a bra strap. You Go Girl MommaD!!

              • Since no one would have you, go find Sybil, you two would make a great pair. Get a motel room.

            • Ours starts tomorrow(Thursday). Hopin’ to fill the freezer again. Best of luck to you MommaD.

      14. Wow! Ya’ll don’t paint a very pretty picture of Montana. Full of liberals, government OWNS one third of the state, stinky factories, and Missiles galore. Cripes, if THAT qualifies for top of the heap places when SHTF, I’ll stay here in Florida…..

        • What part of FL?

          • Florida is the largest State per square mile east of the Mississippi. Lots of places to bug out to. Thousands of miles of mangroves and islands rivers, and woods, swamps, overland. Most of the population lives in the larger 4 cities.

          • Hey John – Did you find out what part of FL
            David is from? I, too, am staying right here in
            sunny FL.


            • Sunny Middleburg (south of Jacksonville)

          • Sunny Middleburg(south of Jacksonville).

        • You probably be better off cause the growing season is longer. At least the fishing can be good. I remember back in the mid seventies snorkeling around the bridge pilings of Key Marathon for the spiny lobster. Had plenty of fine meals at the Tahitian Village, The Coral Grill and plenty of fine cigars. If’n a man went hungry or thirsty there back in them times (or without female companionship) shame on him.

          • I’ve been down to the Keys several times. Rather go there than the Bahamas shit hole. Remember many-a-time sitting in Sloppy Joes smoking a fresh, hand-rolled ceegar and sipping a “Hurricane”, listening to the blues playing with all the street doors open, breeze blowing through…….I miss it so.

            • PO’d Patriot, you bring back some memories for me from my years in Miami. Been in the Keys many a time. Sloppy Joes, Tahitian Village, The Coral Grill, etc. were top-notch restaurants.

        • To Dave – I’m staying put in FL, too.
          What part of FL do you live??

          • Sunny Middleburg (south of Jacksonville)

            • Cool, have a friend who lives there that’s somewhat on board with this stuff.

      15. Here’s one for the feminists:
        Three men were leaving divorce court at the same time. After being raked over the coals by the judicial system and their ex-wives, they decided to have a drink together and take their minds off their troubles.
        On the way to the local bar, one of the men saw something sticking out of the ground. He dug it up and discovered an old oil lamp.
        As he started to wipe it off, a female genie popped out. She actually felt sorry for the three men and said “I will grant each of you a wish w/o tax or court ordered liabilities”.
        BUT, whatever you wish for, your ex gets two-fold.
        The first man said “I want a new house far away from that bitch, and a new car”. The genie said “fine, but remember, your ex will get a house twice as big and two cars”. The first man said “OK”.
        The second man said “I want the same along w/ten million dollars”. The genie said “remember, your wife will now get a house twice as big, two cars and twenty million dollars. The man said “OK”.
        After hearing the first two men, the third man looks the genie in the eyes and says:
        “I want you to beat me half to death”!!!

        • Good one Macman, watch out some here may get a hard on for you…

        • EXCELLENT!

          ROFL still…

        • Macman, a good one, but watch out for feminazis.

      16. I was in montana for one winter and got out as fast as I could. COLD! SNOW! ICE! for 6 months, never again

      17. Take advice from someone who was there,, stay away, Winter in montana is a life changing experience, They make hillbillies look refined, They are still fighting the indians, ZERO WORK and like in nevada people disappear

      18. I would say Russia has to be high on any ‘bug out’ list: the population is majority white or Asian-European. They have amazing outdoors, lots of great fishing and hunting, it is more of a free market than most of the West, the Russian military is very hardcore and few have the courage to f#ck with them.

        And finally, Russian women are pretty freaking amazing and easily beat the he-women you would find in Montana. Russian women have elegance, smarts and, apart from the old-school babushkas, are some of the most beautiful women in the world. If you get bored with them, there are always beautiful women in Kalmikia, Mongolia etc.

        • Frank … curious question…how do you propose getting to Russia?




          • Acid , the gay issue is not a concern for MOST of us.

            • First they came for the Jews and I wasn’t a Jew so I didn’t say anything…

              • The only GOOD thing about gays are, they cannot reproduce.

          • All your littermates that got thrown overboard didn’t make it. You apparently did. I guess the bag wasn’t tied well enough…….

          • Ass’ed Itch there is one good thing that will come out of this when the SHTF, The Queers will be put back in the closet. So if your into this sort of thing keep to yourself, people are not interested in your sex life. Trekker Out. Death To The Infidels!

            • Yeah, gramps?

              Well for people who are not interested in sex you fucking assholes sure do obsess about denying gays basic human rights at every turn.

              I don’t want to keep this dick to myself. I want to show it to as many people as I can. And people have a 1st amendment right to expression.

              • Yeah, all 2 inches.

              • You must be referring to that little flap covering your mangina

          • Eisenturd, nobody here cares about the gay issue as you already know. Your point about Bolsheviks I do agree with. My wife and her family suffered terribly under Fidel Castro’s brand of communism in Cuba. She lost half of her family to Castro’s butchers. I can agree relocating to Montana is a bad idea. I have arrangements to be with a relative at a BOL in north Ga when the time comes. All of my relatives within a short distance of each other and they’re NOT someone anyone wants to f#$% with. Plus, we ‘bigots’, as you call us have more brains and more hands-on experience than you could ever hope to have. At some point in your life you chose to try out that ‘alternative lifestyle.’ That one thing there tells me you’re retarded.

          • acid,you are one tiresome expert wannabe!

      19. Conducted some Army training in Montana in the summer of 1980. Had the state and federal people come out to check on us to make sure we were not ruining any terrain. The state lady that was with us for a day was full of all types of information on the stateand especially the area around Helena and Missoula. Some of the soldiers inquired about buying property and was amazed at the losw cost for several acre’s. However, when she pointed out that in order to get to the property you had have a snowmobile out at the “main” road in order to get groceries and other things up the valley because you are generally snow-bound 4-5 months of the year. Well that settled that potential relocation for those soldiers. Me Too!!! Ground is mostly rock and the western side of the state is not good farming land.

      20. Beautiful country, would be fun to live there, lots of four wheeling areas, great hiking, camping etc, nice to dream about but way out of reach.

        • @ Kula,
          You are welcome to visit anytime.
          I got ya’ covered.

          • Thanks bud, the rate stuff is going around here i may be headed there!

            • Elk stew tonight.
              Pheasant or Duck breasts tomorrow.
              R.S.V.P. is nice, but there is always plenty if ya’ drop in.
              The winters are harsh and long. It seems to weed out the weak ones, but I’ll never live anywhere else. Well, maybe Idaho, if I win the lottery!

          • Northern Idaho and western Montana are the deep freeze. Cant grow anything, people get lost and eaten by grizz, negative thinking, glass is half empty, attitude isnt welcomed. Too much snow and few malls and supermarkets. Its elk season now and I have to get one or I’ll starve.

            • Good luck.

        • Kula … I saw a story this morning saying that Zuckerberg just bought a 100 acre farm on one the islands. So that makes two multi-billionaires with retreats in the islands. Think they’re thinking isolation if/when Ebola goes full retard?

          • Yea, theres a bunch of them actually, OW has about 1200 acres right down the road from us, then that guy just bought most of Lanai, theres many others too,
            I think they just like it here,

            • At least we’ll know where they are when their time comes.

      21. in my opinion, a bug out location should be near salt water and away from people.
        I live near the gulf of mexico. many, many small islands around in some spots.
        you only need some fishing hooks and line.

        catch a catfish (bottom feeders, EASY to catch), eat it, use its tail/eyes/leftovers as bait for more. repeat.

        also, living on a beach of some sort(even if its an inlet) you don’t need toilet paper. salt water can cleanse.

        only issue is finding fresh water. and I can come up with a few ideas for that as well.

      22. How do you use irrigation to grow crops after SHTF? Forget Montana. Upper Michigan is a much better choice.

        • Hey Barn, If you like to live in the freezer Upper MI isa great place to freeze your A off. A mini ski hill Iron wood. Ever go over to Rib Mt by Ripon.

          • It’s not as cold as you would think. Upper Michigan is on Lake Superior. The lake never freezes. It’s warmer in the winter because of Lake Superior. The average high in January is 25 degrees.

            • Barn, least you forget the all Great lakes were 90% frozen over last winter. And the water is cold as ice even in the middle of summer. And the deer flies will eat chunks out of your skin. I’ll stick to FL, can’t remember the last time I even had to wear a jacket. I am orig from Wisconsin, So 25 yrs of that BS I would NEVER move back to that tundra hell hole boring as shit. Wisconsin has 3 months, July, August and Winter. BTW 3/4th of Florida’s population live in the 4 large cities. they rest is pretty wide open. You can fresh water fish in the morning, and then go a few miles and out into an inlet of the gulf go shark fishing and lobstering, Spanish Mackeral, grouper, pompano, sea trout and all from my kayak. What you eat up there walleye and perch? lol

          • Plus, you think FLORIDA is a great place to bug out to. 20 million people living in a bug, snake, and criminal infested peninsula.

        • Barn , I agree , unless ya gotta cross the bridge.
          In tough times it would be impossible.

      23. I’m a reasonable person. I have spent large sums of money on preps and done my research. If something goes down like emp or worse nobody is gonna get very far to relocate. I served in to branches of the military and its not even close to a possibility of moving a family hundreds of miles or thousands of miles with looters and rouge townspeople acting without law. And if you have money to buy land far away from where you live good for you doubt you and your entire family make the trip. This site feels more like fantasy when the process amd problems are laid out.

        • Dont worry, im pretty sure most of the regulars here know whats up, a short distance relocate, maybe, big maybe, anything that would be farther than a day of walking, forget it, like somebody here says, if your not already there you might as well forget it.
          Personally, im staying put come hell or high water.

      24. Two….error correction

      25. The Montana locals won’t take kindly to the invaders. There aren’t a lot of roads in or out. It wouldn’t be hard from them to put up roadblocks to keep out the indesirables.

      26. yeah go ahead move to western montana.

        the montana local locals love all the new out of state neighbors pouring into the glacier area. they’ve a very special local locals welcome wagon waiting for you all.

        lol ;0) most of you will be running back home within 1.5 years at a loss of $25,000 in expenses.

        you all will especially love the 4 weeks of subarctic -30 degree’s wind chill deep freeze that hits the state every winter january – february. it’s like clock work here.

        And lock your sheeit up here in your car, rental storage units, home or rental property. the local landlords in montana don’t know the meaning of “renter rights in montana” and think they can walk into your place anytime they want and rob you in montana. the sheriff departments here are a friggen joke! bunch of barney fifes and over paid $12.00 an hour mall security guards here on the local run sheriff departments. corruption in common, they steal and rob you just as much as the red neck inbred meth head alchi local locals do. and stay off the injun reservations if you are white… etc etc

        move to montana lol ;0) great idea joel. the local locals and local law dawgs need new out of state fresh fish to rob and terrorize every year or they turn on each other.

        montana is a very corrupt state at the local level.

        move or visit here at your own risk of life limb or stolen property.

        if your a lady stay away from the eastern oil fields rape meth and other vices are booming there. oil field men men are having drugged up rape parties in the oil fields.

        ye’ has been warned.

        p.s. – montana is a b.y.o.w. ‘bring your own woman’ state too. unless you like hard used ignorant obese alchi religious nut bags with 3+ kids looking for a 3rd marriage or prefer sheep.


        • Damn. All we have is the Swamp Ape to keep transplants out.

        • Thank you for this perspective. Sadly some truth is in there.

          Like we say at work, easy to steal when the crooks have all the keys.

        • @ Rodeph Golem,
          Funny. True, but funny when ya read it.
          You gotta WANT to be here. A little bit crazy doesn’t either.

          • A little bit crazy doesn’t HURT either.
            Proofreading is also good.

        • Thank you for the ‘straight juice’ on what life is like in Montana! Something people forget is the common fact that many of these places are populated by losers, and the dregs of society. People who couldn’t cut it in a bigger city, where you have to compete with people with university degrees for the good jobs.

          You think drug abuse is bad in your local ‘ghetto’, just try the meth heads in these places.

          Unlike many, I have lived in these sorts of places long-term (resource-based economies, rural, remote). They all tend to have some stark realities that take away any romanticism. Firstly, the men will live a life of easy money and easy spending to stay amused: drugs, whores, gambling. The women that rock up there tend to be some pretty rough women who either work in support services to these places (catering, nursing, admin) or are former sex workers. If they were born there, and are still beautiful and smart, they will be out of there by the time they turn 18 to go to university.

          Be prepared for a challenge, as in some moron will try and start a fight with you. It does not matter what the excuse is – they do or don’t like mustaches, your clothing is too colorful, you look too smart and university-educated, your too handsome and fit, etc. You will have to fight and hope you get out of there without losing some teeth and getting a criminal record. The local native Americans tend to always be sad cases and alcoholics who start fights.

          This is why I recommend places where there is a different culture. Not that there aren’t drunks and losers in rural Russia but that, because of the lack of US low-grade culture (junk food, bad TV, lazy, entitlement mentality), the women are better – not obese – and there are serious business opportunities because so many men are totally hopeless.Just having a basic work ethic, good hygiene and deportment, an education and skills, no drug or drink dependency, will put you in the 0.001% of high-quality men. As in, you will be in the category who gets the most beautiful women (and they are a knock-out!). It makes any shtf scenario much, much more tolerable, to have one of these honeys in your bed on a cold night.

      27. and they are going to have a ebola facility there as well…no thanks.

      28. Nice not so subtle racism here mixed in with silly political party cheerleading. What a waste of time this was to read as is most everything on this site.

        • omega … if you dislike it so much, why do you come here?

        • And yet you took the time to reply. How thoughtful of you.

        • Was I subtle? Sorry.

        • Omegaman, sorry to see you feel that way, but nobody here subscribes to political correctness. Nothing on this site will be changed to please other people.

      29. Today we had a downpour, and it was cold.

        Went to Wallyworld dressed in boots, Patagonia Torrentshell pants, and LL Bean Trail raincoat to buy some cheap plastic shit from China.

        Nobody, NOBODY else in the whole store had any raingear, only umbrellas at the most. A soccer mom looked at me and said “My, you came prepared!”

        Point is that all those clueless people would catch hypothermia if they had to venture outside in this for any period. I don’t write technical clothing reviews for my killer fashion sense.

        OBTAIN THE PROPER GEAR. Two sets of waterproof breathable hooded jackets and pants, one insulated, one not. Running shoes, boots which are insulated and waterproof. Depending on where you live and your shit plan, waders, wetsuit, wading shoes, knee high rubber boots, balaclava, UV proof sun hat are also recommended.

        Also, I would not buy camo gear to start out. Get stuff that a sheeple would wear, muted tones or sporty looking shit. I do have a camo suit and a black suit and eventually you should too. But be aware that wearing camo shit around town telegraphs an awful lot about who you are.

        • No Doubt Acid. Just take the case in Atlanta with the Ice and snow storm last year. Tens of thousands got stranded on the highways trying to get out of the downtown after their work shifts. It crawled to solid Gridlock. Many had Nothing prepared to hike in the snow or cold weather coats. Women wearing highheels had nothing to hoof it out of there, to anyplace safe or to some local store off the highway in several feet of snow and ice. 90% are fricken clueless. Keep up the good posts. Wake the stupid sheeple up. Many would rather sit here posting drivel stupid jokes. Their lives are a Fricken Joke when SHTF. Nothing will be funny for them as their families parish cause they wasted precious time being stupid.

          • Please learn to spell, you show your ignorance, come on up here, you would not make it long, maybe you and Sybil should hook up.

            • Hitler’s rant on snowpocalypse in Atlanta 2014, we got too many transplants that cannot drive in snow, plus they let out the schools at noon, and truckers got stuck and backed up everything. But some idiot posters have no idea what really happened. I made it home, no problem, just took twice as long. Maybe if we had the local govt. make the right decision, it would not have been so bad, but since the local ass here knows everything, well what can one say.
              ht tp://

            • What happened eppe you find your penis and grow some testosterone. Bring it on butch.

              • eppe is a putz too. useless drivel.

                • WWTI, it sounds like the useless drivel is coming from you.

                • BARKING OUT YOUR ASS AGAIN?

        • Here’s a fucking cookie!


            • Eisenturd, who are you telling to STFU?

              • Anyone ever wonder if Sybil and wwti are the same person?
                They are both full of themselves, and live in thier own fantasyland, like Mickey Mouse?

                • Eppe, with the kind of world we live in nowadays, ANYTHING is possible!

            • Temper temper Acid. Don’t get your pantyhose in a bunch, Quit being the expert know it all.

        • The only thing that sucks with the lightweight breathable stuff is it doesnt stay waterproof, have tried all kinds, there are not many good options for re treating them either, theres a treatment that Cabelas sells that you wash the stuff in, supposedly works but i hate the thought of the waterproof failing when you have no way to treat and retreat!
          Have a rainset from Lacrosse that has a PVC backing, that ones good, but not real breathable,
          Want to get a no rainer jacket from Duluth, supposedly the best today.

          • I recommend Patagonia torrentshell jacket and pants.

          • Have you tried Frogg Toggs, Reasonably priced and works great. But Unlike Ass’ed Itch, I haven’t taken a hot shower in mine, so we may have to wait on a report from young Ass’ed. Trekker Out. Semper Paratus!

        • Eisenturd, that was a good post you gave on prepper items.

      30. ACHTUNG!…ACHTUNG!!!,

        LISTEN up here Y’All…the market hasn’t quite closed for the day yet…yet the NEARLY 100 point gain in the DOW, that it had picked up intra-day, is NOW GONE…as are the smaller gains on the S&P and the NDX that they had picked up along the way. The DOW is – now – actually negative on the day, though the other two are JUST ‘holding thier heads above water’…barely.

        NOW, the inmportant thing here is THIS: This was a POMO day, the day the Fed steps in and LEVITATES the markets as it buys, S’OK? Well, we have never seen a POMO day go OFF like this, EVER, since the damn Fed started this shite. IF the FED can’t successfully LEVITATE the market – for even past the daily close – then I AM – now – gettting a bit worried about WHAT will happen tomorrow, when the markets OPEN again.

        The downward market momentum this here implies is BIG, really BIG. What that means is that there is FEAR out there NOW. Now, what do humans do when they fear? Remember that, when you wee a kid and you got AFRAID? What did you do?…you RAN, FAST. Same principle HERE, WATCH the market tomorrow ALL day, like a hawk would.
        Were THAT not enough, oil futures just felll through the FLOOR about 10 minutes ago; WTI near 81, Brent near 85. THAT will further ‘pressurize’ a WHOLE lot of ‘positions’ meaning that the SELL side is now firmly ‘in-control’, they have TO since they HAVE to cover thier positons and thier ‘shorts’ as well: NO CHOICE there involved!

        I THINK We MIGHT just about ‘be’ there….maybe. “Strap on your seat-belts, it’s going to be a BUMPY ride.”

        • I think the Dollar Index hit its peak on October 3, and the Baltic Dry Index continues its downward trend since last December.

          It’s five days until the 27th anniversary of Black Monday, 1987.

          • Good Evening A’,

            Yes, the Blatic dry is at ‘obscene’ levels right now; fell off the CLIFF, it did. When inter-continnetal traffic of goods drops to a tenth of what it has been, well…

            As a related ‘aside’ here, I have heard that everal contianed ship owners are now at the point where the vessels they constructed with the LAST two years – at vast cost, often at 1.4 Billion per SHIP – are now sending thoae very ships to India…to the scrapping yards there, a theey can not NOW make the payments on thise…in this economy. Likely, that is a particularly grim sign…a ‘bumpy ride’ indeed.

          • @ Mr. Rodgers,
            Seems you may right on target, POMO.

        • @ JOG, They also had 2 computer “gliches” to stop a sell off. Saudi’s are trying to hurt the Ruskies with the low oil prices, plus there isnt much of a demand in this world wide recession. But I Got a elk cow tag this year!

          • I had a friend who scored a tag for Montana,drove across country with another friend to Montana,didn’t get a thing,had a great time though,good luck!

        • Be afwaid de vewwy vewwy afwaid
          ( muster your best Elmer Fuddd impression for this)

          • Yeth…be bewwy, bewwy afwaid…cux dAT mite be ‘D-D-Dats, D-D-dat’s awlllll fwolks…”


            • I’m a elk,shoot me,it’s elk season!
              I’m a fiddler crab,shoot me,it’s fiddler crab season!

              ht tp:// ,space,you know the drill.

      31. Well here in Florida if you talk with the old timers, they will say Florida too was a great place till the visitors decided to stay full time. They said the largest down fall was when Micky Mouse came to Orlando in the early 70’s, then followed the cheap immigrant labor, crime drugs, traffic, pollution, you name it. I suggest if you find a nice secure place out there don’t broadcast it. I am sure many originals in Montana would just as soon skin the idiot promoting Montana or Redoubt. I also wonder how many have left, due to no more privacy with the larger influx of populations without a clue how to respect the land.

        KulaFarmer could relate also as on an island he has seen the changes and influx from immigrants over the years, that want to take the place over, throw their money around and tell the locals their way is better. Nothing worse than owning a nice piece of property, then some Ahole moves in next door,and upsets the landscape. Being from Wisconsin we had Many Aholes from Chicago come up and invade our space come summertime and trash the place.

        Not sure what anybody can do about it, but just keep your honey hole a secret.

      32. Well here in Florida if you talk with the old timers, they will say Florida too was a great place till the visitors decided to stay full time. They said the largest down fall was when Micky Mouse came to Orlando in the early 70’s, then followed the cheap immigrant labor, crime drugs, traffic, pollution, you name it. I suggest if you find a nice secure place out there don’t broadcast it. I am sure many originals in Montana would just as soon skin the idiot promoting Montana or Redoubt. I also wonder how many have left, due to no more privacy with the larger influx of populations without a clue how to respect the land.

        KulaFarmer could relate also as on an island he has seen the changes and influx from immigrants over the years, that want to take the place over, throw their money around and tell the locals their way is better. Nothing worse than owning a nice piece of property, then some Ahole moves in next door,and upsets the landscape. Being from Wisconsin we had Many Aholes from Chicago come up and invade our space come summertime and trash the place.

        Not sure what anybody can do about it, but just keep your honey hole a secret. Just saying..

        • Sort of like newbie assholes that came to this site, trash everyone, spew excrement, and think they are great, we know exactly what you mean.

          • When I hear the word eppe I think of a mushroom cap. dickhead.

            • JUST GO AWAY. Or are you just that ignorant?

            • When I see a post by WhoWuddaThunkIt, I see another useless troll.

      33. Rosebud!

        • 59347 ?

          • 867-5309

      34. Whats up with this double posting again. Glitch.

        • WWTI I don’t know! but you should have skipped the second one, you had a better ratio on the first one. But then again your comments, should be double posted, cause us old folks sometimes have to read thing twice so it will soak in. But I did realize it wasn’t any better the second time around. Trekker Out.

          • lol Easy MT, I defended your other fire pit comment from Acid above.

            • Get a motel room, Sybil and wwti.

          • WWTI yes I know. Just trying to add a little humor at your expense. Anywho many of us on this site have a great array of opinions on various subject and feel very strongly about them, which is what freedom is all about. But I just hate to see it when we start to get to personal and carry on a vendetta against each other. As for Ass’ed Itch and you WWTI, I disagree about 90% of the time. But that don’t mean we can’t throw some jabs without come right down to blows. Trekker Out. Lets Agree To Disagree!

      35. POMO ???

        S’OK? ???

        • Permanent Open Market Operations. Search for POMO on Startpage.

        • Howdy BJ,

          To clariy those terms, for those who are NOT familiar therewith,

          POMO….the day o the week.month when the Fed steps in and buys up market debt, simplified, that is

          S’OK….comprende’, capice, vertsehen sie?…Get it?

          AHH, I JSYT caught A’s definitive acronymous explanation below…tip ‘O the Hat A!…had I a hat to tip….

          • Is POMO the plunge protection thing Reagan started?

      36. I am going to burst some peoples bubble now.

        If you think that there will be somewhere to run away to in America during the collapse of all things, think again.

        Lets start with the 500lb gorilla in the room, what many of the apocalyptic visions of John of Patmos in Revelation and Isaiah 24 and Isaiah 13:13 speak of and many more. It involves the passing of a large planet or planets and the destruction it will cause. Call it Planet X, Nibiru, Frightener or whatever you like. The Kolbrin bible speaks to what has happened in the past. This book is not so much a bible as writings from a past apocalypse.

        Revelation 8:7 speaks of 1/3rd of the world being burned up during this time. Here is the scripture: Revelation 8:7King James Version (KJV)

        7 The first angel sounded, and there followed hail and fire mingled with blood, and they were cast upon the earth: and the third part of trees was burnt up, and all green grass was burnt up.

        Guess what part of the world is 1/3rd of the world’s land mass? You got it! The Americas!

        Whatever you do, don’t beg anyone to let you go underground as you will have to take the MARK to escape being burned off the surface with the majority. This will damn you to hell to save your skin for a few years more in a world of hell.

        The first seal of Revelation is the rise of ISIS, the rider on a white horse with NO ARROWS!

        The second seal is how they get everyone to beg to go to the safety of the FEMA camps. This is a demon possessed zombie apocalypse. People will kill each other worldwide.

        This is NO JOKE, make Jesus Christ your Lord and Savior and repent of your sins, escape the wrath to come.

        I believe that we don’t have even a YEAR left before this all begins.

        You were warned!

      37. Good assessment. My family moved to Western MT several years ago. Yes, from CA. It’s a mistake to think those moving away from CA are trying to bring their liberal agenda. If anything I would embrace people like us. We left everyone & everything behind to create a better life. A life free from the liberal agenda. We have an overcoming spirit, and if anything are far ahead in preparation and mindset than the average Joe. It is important to have realistic expectations if you decide to move here. We were caught by surprise on a few things. One thing is California prices on Montana wages. Unless you are retired, or independantly wealthy I would make sure to have a job in place before moving. It is hard to find work, and the wages are low. If you haven’t grown up in a state with cold & snow, the winters are long. In a grid down situation it would be hard to survive unless you have preparations in place. The growing season is over in a blink of an eye. We are lucky to get 2-3 months before the first freeze. Greenhouse growing can extend it a bit. There is a huge meth problem here, and with that comes all your big city problems. We are still looking for Mayberry, it isn’t here. Don’t expect people to welcome you with open arms, or that you are in an automatic prepper community. People are very nice, but they hold their cards close. Most people in the area we live seem to have their head buried just as much as the next person. We’ve been here several years, and are just finally building a community. With all the negatives, it still outweighs a CA life by FAR. God opened each and every door for us to be here, so I know there is plan for us being here.

        • Thats the reason that is heavily at the top of the list in the FOR collumn
          Less libtard crap

          • That’s the crazy thing. The bigger cities in Western MT are very liberal…California liberal almost. You’ve got to get to the outskirts, but then the job issues arise. I think it is important for like minded people to move to MT. Unfortunately, due to the necessity for OPSEC there is no welcome wagon.

        • MT Mamma. Im 1 mile from the MT border.Built a greenhouse the first year I got here(from Northern Ca)

          • Have you had success with your greenhouse? I tried a garden our first year and it failed miserably. Weeds took over and then we hit an early freeze. With the greenhouse we can start seeds in April. I’m still figuring out what works. We are from NorCal too. How are you liking Idaho?

      38. I might be movin’ to Montana soon
        Just to raise me up a crop of Dental Floss Raisin’ it up
        Waxen it down
        In a little white box
        I can sell uptown
        By myself I wouldn’t
        Have no boss,
        But I’d be raisin’ my lonely Dental Floss
        Raisin’ my lonely Dental Floss
        Well I just might grow me some bees
        But I’d leave the sweet stuff
        For somebody else…
        but then, on the other hand
        I’d Keep the wax N’ melt it down
        Pluck some Floss N’ swish it aroun’
        I’d have me a crop
        An’ it’d be on top

        Movin’ to Montana soon
        Gonna be a Dental Floss tycoon

        • Hmmm…,a Frank Zappa fan!While I never saw him in concert/really got into his music the guy was one hell of a musician,especially guitar,have not thought about that tune in a long time!

          • Zappa started out as a drummer, then switched to guitar. He was great. his son plays guitar too and does alot of Franks somgs.

      39. Encyclopedia of American Loons
        #12: Chuck Baldwin

        It’s our 12th loon, Chuck Baldwin! Baldwin was a 2008 U.S. presidential candidate for the openly theocratic Constitution Party.
        Baldwin is a strong advocate for a Christian Nation and a historical revisionist with a persecution complex, arguing tirelessly that the American Constitution is based entirely off of the Bible. At the same time he promotes religious liberty, but Baldwin is one of those who aren’t affected by cognitive dissonance. Baldwin also holds that the Founding fathers were religious fundamentalists – he is known for publicly attributing quotes to them that he has made up himself (but the contents of which, according to him, the founding fathers would have agreed with). For a discussion of his views and arguments, see here:
        h ttp://

        Diagnosis: Bigoted, vile, zealous and crazy theocrat, liar for Jesus, paranoid and harebrained (but the martyr tactic is the lifeblood of these dingbats, so a persecution complex is unavoidable). Impact is probably relatively limited (the Constitution party isn’t exactly in the running for many seats), but the Orwellian historical revisionism he stands for is a cause for concern.

      40. As an unashamed native(northern) Californian, who raised the family in southern California, we couldn’t wait to get the heck out of the “Crush of Humanity”. When the in-laws became ill, things worked out well to sell our home and flee. Loved the weather, hated everything else, (except our good friends), I would love to move back to NorCal, north of Sacramento, alas, no water, no politicians that work/represent my views, land prices too high, too many dummies on welfare, (68% of the population of my home county is on welfare of some kind-ridiculous), that sort of nonsense. Plus their idiotic firearms laws penalize the good decent taxpayers, and reward the thugs, gangsters and other Obola-dependents. Not some place I’m moving back to ever. Too bad, Northern California is beautiful with some great people, and good local sheriffs that actually issue CCW permits.(most of them do outside of the metro areas, much to the consternation of the political pimps in Sacramento). Have no desire to move to and live in Montana, will visit, hunt and fish there, but not live. No thanks.

      41. O and his wife are considering relocation to Montana after America is bugged out.

        • Obola and Moooooooschelll,
          Geez i hope they get eaten by wolves

        • Uh, yea.
          They’ll stick out like turds in a punchbowl.
          I doubt they could make it.

      42. President Obama decided to do one of his public addresses against the backdrop of an American farm, but the ceremony couldn’t get started because of all the flies buzzing around his head. Obama demanded to know why the flies wouldn’t leave, so the farmer explained to him, “well those are called circle flies. They always circle around the back end of horses.” Obama angrily replied “Hey are you saying that I’m a horse’s ass?” The farmer answered “No Sir, Mr President. I would never call someone a horse’s ass. It’s hard to fool them flies though.”

        • Good one,,,

        • Aljamo, that is a damned good one. Been hanging around Eppe?

      43. Place a map of the good old U.S.A. on the wall, now step back 15 feet, throw a dart and where it hits is the next relocation spot.

        Feed Jake

        • He’s been a good Dog.

          • I had a shepard mix named Jake…he was a damned good dog.

      44. I don’t…I’d rather be in the southeast ( Florida ) plenty of hardwood oak to heat( you wont freeze to death ) and cook with- ample rainfall and you can grow almost year round ….Going there someday

      45. Wa-y-y-y to cold in any of the northern states for me. Did lots of traveling over the last few years with an eye open towards a perfect SHTF location. We decided the two best locations with most desired qualities for that scenerio, but with good everyday living until that time comes, were in Northern Georgia and in the Ozark Mountains of Arkansas. Our choice to completely relocate was Northern Arkansas. Year around moderate temperatures, great growing season, water plentiful, lots of wood, privacy, and plenty of off the beaten path locations at a reasonable price. There are many parcels of land that are discreetly hidden in the hills, but close enough to a small town for any supply needs; and socialization. No large cities close and the small towns lend themselves to friendly interaction as long as you don’t come across with a “better than you” attitude. Neighbors tend to be friendly and very helpful once they get to know that you are a person who minds his own business and doesn’t bother anyone else, like most of them. Retired and moved here from a larger metro area to near a town of about 1200 for living privacy and have found it is the perfect place to bug in. Gun ownership is no problem with many more people owning them than not. If you can stand some humidity and some ticks and chiggers in the summer, it ain’t bad. Most people in my area are self sufficent in their everyday lives, so less chance of marauding in a SHTF situation. Have found the locals are really good people and good neighbors. Have spent the last two years living in the woods at the end of a gravel road with the closest neighbor 3/4 mile away, the type of folks with our mindset that you could depend on to help with neighborhood security. Sorry for the length, but just some information for good people seriously looking.

      46. Guide to living in Montana: If you’re the slightest bit different, you’re ostracized. “Independent” and “self-sufficient” means that nobody wants to be involved in anything you’re doing, so you better be prepared to carry out all of the parts of a project yourself, because everyone else will flake. What’s worse, though, are the LA and NY people that have moved in, jacked up the prices, and started treating the locals like they’re extras from Deliverance.

      47. To everyone that takes times to contribute to this information on preparedness, my sincere thanks! Been quietly preparing with my husband, parents and trusted friends. We are on the East coast (ugh), in a nanny state (double ugh) and researching for good property locations to purchase out of the “city burbs” for relocation and farming.

        Also, here’s an idea… it’s a free country, say what you want, think how you feel, HOWEVER…

        Please know there are blacks and other minorities who take their country, liberty, lives and families just as, if not more, seriously as you do. It’s mean spirited that a lot of commentary on this site is “let’s avoid the blacks”, or let’s go to this area because it’s low minority population. My opinion is live and let live and remember the golden rule. If you don’t like me or mine based on skin color without knowing how awesome I am, then it’s your loss. My great prep is pulling together prepping smart people based on their character, skills and applied intelligence, regardless of the package it comes in.

        In 2014, the best prep anyone can learn is how to analyze a situation, adapt and make quick decisions. By being stuck in a “most or all minorities are bad” assumption, you might turn away the very people who could save you or your kids life in SHTF time…

        I (black) only work in alcohol wholesale, my best friends (black, latino) are only military (marines, army, coast guard) and medical fields. My hubby (indian) is only an international infectious disease physician, expert in harsh and life threatening environments. His friends are general contractor, DoD and doctors (white, black, asian). Obviously, you don’t want to be anywhere near THESE minorties folks when SHTF… ;o)

      48. If you really want to find the best place with the least gov’t red tape, why not look where all the rich politicians and tycoons are picking for their bugout locations. After all, they just love saddling down everybody with all that regulatory BS, but they themselves wouldn’t be caught dead having to be on the receiving end themselves. And they love building silos next to mr USA ranchers livelihood, but they wouldn’t be caught dead living there.
        Instead they’re all heading to the Ozarks. It’s either that or the Canadian rockies, or praries.
        Take your pick.

      49. The best place for a bug out location is in a very low population, isolated forest area, good for growing food and natural food resources,plenty of water, has plenty of sun for solar or wood for heat, and where it isn’t advertised so there’s no land rush.

      50. Encyclopedia of American Loons
        #1150: Joel Skousen
        Diagnosis: Prime material.
        Joel Skousen is a nephew the epistemic trainwreck W. Cleon Skousen. W. Cleon, as you may remember, was a professor at Brigham Young University and a neo-Confederate, unapologetic racist and Mormon young earth creationist (a series of books) whose (absolutely incoherently insane) book The Five Thousand Year Leap became a recent bestseller .

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