SHOWDOWN: TSA Threatens $10,000 Fine and Civil Court For Man Who Refused Scan and Groping

by | Nov 15, 2010 | Headline News | 74 comments

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    The issue of body scanners and personal searches is no longer just about body scanner radiation and feeling uncomfortable with a stranger groping you. This is a privacy issue and, in our view, should be protected under the 4th Amendment to the United States Constitution:

    The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

    As a federal agency, the TSA is essentially a police force acting on orders of, and at the pleasure of, the United States Congress and the President of the United States.

    As such, they must respect the rights of individuals as protected by the Constitution.

    What probable cause does the TSA have to search someone simply because they are traveling from one city to the next and it happens to be via airplane? Clearly, there is none.

    Nonetheless, the TSA engages in unreasonable searches and violates the privacy of every individual passing through security by either viewing a full nude body scan or forcing them to be groped. Some have gone so far as to describe the physical searches as molestation.

    According to WND and John Whitehead of the Rutherford Institute, legislation has been proposed that would mandate body scanners in all airports by 2013.

    Whitehead is currently assembling  numerous allegations regarding the constitutionality of the scanners in light of the Fourth Amendment’s provisions.

    “It’s a huge civil liberties issue,”

    “In the United States, we’ve never before strip-searched – full-body strip searches – unless there’s reasonable suspicion of some kind of criminal activity.”

    These recent constitutional violations are but another example of a growing trend – one that has slowly deteriorated our rights to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness for decades. If body scanners and physical searches without probable cause are eventually made into law and not challenged, what precedent does it set? Will the government then have the mandate to do the same at shopping malls or other public venues? Will the very fact that we leave our homes give government the ability to trample our rights to personal privacy by forcing us to submit to random scans and searches without probable cause or warrants? And how long before the law allows them to enter our homes at will, or remotely activate the cameras and microphones on our cell phones for monitoring?

    For those who feel the latest actions by President Obama (who signed the order to spend $1 Billion on the machines and other security) and the TSA are an attempt to further degrade your personal liberty, consider doing what John Tyner did at the San Diego airport on November 13, 2010 (his detailed account is below, complete with video). John refused to take the scan and did not allow a physical search of his body.

    If you are as outraged as John Tyner, then maybe it’s time to take a stand right here, right now. If your airport uses the machines you can either refuse to fly or you can simply stay home and choose not to travel by air. It may be a difficult decision for those who planned on visiting friends or family over the holidays, but perhaps those close to you will understand if you choose to stand on principle this year.


    The following events took place roughly between 5:30 and 6:30 AM, November 13th in Terminal 2 of the San Diego International Airport. The author, John Tyner, detailed his experience on his blog approximately 2 1/2 hours after the events transpired.

    We have republished the full account with permission from the author.

    This morning, I tried to fly out of San Diego International Airport but was refused by the TSA. I had been somewhat prepared for this eventuality. I have been reading about the millimeter wave and backscatter x-ray machines and the possible harm to health as well as the vivid pictures they create of people’s naked bodies. Not wanting to go through them, I had done my research on the TSA’s website prior to traveling to see if SAN had them. From all indications, they did not. When I arrived at the security line, I found that the TSA’s website was out of date. SAN does in fact utilize backscatter x-ray machines.

    I made my way through the line toward the first line of “defense”: the TSA ID checker. This agent looked over my boarding pass, looked over my ID, looked at me and then back at my ID. After that, he waved me through. SAN is still operating metal detectors, so I walked over to one of the lines for them. After removing my shoes and making my way toward the metal detector, the person in front of me in line was pulled out to go through the backscatter machine. After asking what it was and being told, he opted out. This left the machine free, and before I could go through the metal detector, I was pulled out of line to go through the backscatter machine. When asked, I half-chuckled and said, “I don’t think so.” At this point, I was informed that I would be subject to a pat down, and I waited for another agent.

    A male agent (it was a female who had directed me to the backscatter machine in the first place), came and waited for me to get my bags and then directed me over to the far corner of the area for screening. After setting my things on a table, he turned to me and began to explain that he was going to do a “standard” pat down. (I thought to myself, “great, not one of those gropings like I’ve been reading about”.) After he described, the pat down, I realized that he intended to touch my groin. After he finished his description but before he started the pat down, I looked him straight in the eye and said, “if you touch my junk, I’ll have you arrested.” He, a bit taken aback, informed me that he would have to involve his supervisor because of my comment.

    We both stood there for no more than probably two minutes before a female TSA agent (apparently, the supervisor) arrived. She described to me that because I had opted out of the backscatter screening, I would now be patted down, and that involved running hands up the inside of my legs until they felt my groin. I stated that I would not allow myself to be subject to a molestation as a condition of getting on my flight. The supervisor informed me that it was a standard administrative security check and that they were authorized to do it. I repeated that I felt what they were doing was a sexual assault, and that if they were anyone but the government, the act would be illegal. I believe that I was then informed that if I did not submit to the inspection, I would not be getting on my flight. I again stated that I thought the search was illegal. I told her that I would be willing to submit to a walk through the metal detector as over 80% of the rest of the people were doing, but I would not be groped. The supervisor, then offered to go get her supervisor.

    I took a seat in a tiny metal chair next to the table with my belongings and waited. While waiting, I asked the original agent (who was supposed to do the pat down) if he had many people opt out to which he replied, none (or almost none, I don’t remember exactly). He said that I gave up a lot of rights when I bought my ticket. I replied that the government took them away after September 11th. There was silence until the next supervisor arrived. A few minutes later, the female agent/supervisor arrived with a man in a suit (not a uniform). He gave me a business card identifying him as David Silva, Transportation Security Manager, San Diego International Airport. At this point, more TSA agents as well as what I assume was a local police officer arrived on the scene and surrounded the area where I was being detained. The female supervisor explained the situation to Mr. Silva. After some quick back and forth (that I didn’t understand/hear), I could overhear Mr. Silva say something to the effect of, “then escort him from the airport.” I again offered to submit to the metal detector, and my father-in-law, who was near by also tried to plead for some reasonableness on the TSA’s part.

    The female supervisor took my ID at this point and began taking some kind of report with which I cooperated. Once she had finished, I asked if I could put my shoes back on. I was allowed to put my shoes back on and gather my belongs. I asked, “are we done here” (it was clear at this point that I was going to be escorted out), and the local police officer said, “follow me”. I followed him around the side of the screening area and back out to the ticketing area. I said apologized to him for the hassle, to which he replied that it was not a problem.

    I made my way over to the American Airlines counter, explained the situation, and asked if my ticket could be refunded. The woman behind the counter furiously typed away for about 30 seconds before letting me know that she would need a supervisor. She went to the other end of the counter. When she returned, she informed me that the ticket was non-refundable, but that she was still trying to find a supervisor. After a few more minutes, she was able to refund my ticket. I told her that I had previously had a bad experience with American Airlines and had sworn never to fly with them again (I rationalized this trip since my father-in-law had paid for the ticket), but that after her helpfulness, I would once again be willing to use their carrier again.

    At this point, I thought it was all over. I began to make my way to the stairs to exit the airport, when I was approached by another man in slacks and a sport coat. He was accompanied by the officer that had escorted me to the ticketing area and Mr. Silva. He informed me that I could not leave the airport. He said that once I start the screening in the secure area, I could not leave until it was completed. Having left the area, he stated, I would be subject to a civil suit and a $10,000 fine. I asked him if he was also going to fine the 6 TSA agents and the local police officer who escorted me from the secure area. After all, I did exactly what I was told. He said that they didn’t know the rules, and that he would deal with them later. They would not be subject to civil penalties. I then pointed to Mr. Silva and asked if he would be subject to any penalties. He is the agents’ supervisor, and he directed them to escort me out. The man informed me that Mr. Silva was new and he would not be subject to penalties, either. He again asserted the necessity that I return to the screening area. When I asked why, he explained that I may have an incendiary device and whether or not that was true needed to be determined. I told him that I would submit to a walk through the metal detector, but that was it; I would not be groped. He told me that their procedures are on their website, and therefore, I was fully informed before I entered the airport; I had implicitly agreed to whatever screening they deemed appropriate. I told him that San Diego was not listed on the TSA’s website as an airport using Advanced Imaging Technology, and I believed that I would only be subject to the metal detector. He replied that he was not a webmaster, and I asked then why he was referring me to the TSA’s website if he didn’t know anything about it. I again refused to re-enter the screening area.

    The man asked me to stay put while he walked off to confer with the officer and Mr. Silva. They went about 20 feet away and began talking amongst themselves while I waited. I couldn’t over hear anything, but I got the impression that the police officer was recounting his version of the events that had transpired in the screening area (my initial refusal to be patted down). After a few minutes, I asked loudly across the distance if I was free to leave. The man dismissively held up a finger and said, “hold on”. I waited. After another minute or so, he returned and asked for my name. I asked why he needed it, and reminded him that the female supervisor/agent had already taken a report. He said that he was trying to be friendly and help me out. I asked to what end. He reminded me that I could be sued civilly and face a $10,000 fine and that my cooperation could help mitigate the penalties I was facing. I replied that he already had my information in the report that was taken and I asked if I was free to leave. I reminded him that he was now illegally detaining me and that I would not be subject to screening as a condition of leaving the airport. He told me that he was only trying to help (I should note that his demeanor never suggested that he was trying to help. I was clearly being interrogated.), and that no one was forcing me to stay. I asked if tried to leave if he would have the officer arrest me. He again said that no one was forcing me to stay. I looked him in the eye, and said, “then I’m leaving”. He replied, “then we’ll bring a civil suit against you”, to which I said, “you bring that suit” and walked out of the airport.

    This video starts with my bag and belongings going through the x-ray machine.They’re kind of long, and they don’t show much, but the audio is really good.

    I was in the middle of telling someone that if I was going to be felt up, I wanted it done in public so that everyone could see what it is that the TSA does. Here is the rest of that video.

    After I was escorted out to the ticketing area, I went to have my ticket refunded. I didn’t have the opportunity or the presence of mind to turn the camera back on until everyone walked away from me.

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      74 Comments

      1. VRF

        Every Red Blooded AMERICAN should refuse these back skatter machines..
        make the lines so F-ing huge and over use the TSA support at every airport that has them..we can passively agressively refuse these and make them obsolite if we all refuse and push them to put us thru the “normal” routine.

        Its the sheeple who allow the abuse of our Liberty and rights.

        Hell half the TSA agents ive seen..couldnt chase a candy bar further than 2 yards.
        and not one of them is armed in any airport i have been in.

        Make them put everyone thru the regular machines..
        and inandate the courts and their system with complaints..thats the only way to Bog down their “machine”

      2. VRF

        Maybe our government should be looking into WHY we have a terrorist threat here in america.and WHO the problem is..(really is)
        and maybe..just maybe if they did their job correctly we wouldnt even have the threat in this country to begin with

      3. Anonymous

        What a hassle.  Boycott flying altogther.  Put these U.S. government sponsored Nazis out of a job. 

      4. Jordan

        John you rock!!!

      5. iferret

        The TSA agent said “you gave up your rights when you bought a ticket”  –what!?  I refuse to fly then. I will not give up my rights!

      6. VRF

        Here is how this freedom and liberty grabbing by our government should be delt with.

        We need to all start flooding our court system with law suits..
        all of them infringement on our 4th amedment rights..
        with as down trodden as our local cities, municipalities and government are at this time in the game, it would render them useless.
        they dont have money for this fight..so thats why we all need to stand up to them..ALL OF US..people!

        They cant afford the law suits, they cant afford to fight them, they cant stuff the court houses with all of these people..
        you see how crowded your local airport is..put that crowd at your local court house..on top of all their other agendas, this will create a major over load..we need to do this.
        No one should walk thru those machines..WE THE PEOPLE need to step up to these thugs..the real threat to America as i see it now isnt some Rag head over in afganistan..its our own people right here with inflated heads and power mongering..
        and if they expended their power and might and intelligence on the right things insted of limiting our freedoms, and breaking their contact with its citizens..they might acctually serve their own country, and by doing so ..make this a more free country and one able to combat the terrorist plots that play out..

        Destroying a free nations rights and the people within that country is not going to serve them well in the end. And you can take that to the bank.

        One way to get their attention is to say NO..to document and film the altercations. jam it up their back sides and if end all be all..stop flying. and cripple them .
        TSA will fold within 2 months if the airports are vacant.
        and so will our government.
        Maybe thats exactly what we need..let them be the cause of a total government shut down, out of their own negligence, and laws and rights violations.

      7. clark

        This isn’t a whole lot different than the State claiming the right to take your blood and test it simply because you drive on the roads, because by driving, you consent.???
        Vampire squid nation?

        This is the point Mushroom pops in and says everyone should submit to their masters and betters in the goberment and allow any type of rape and assult to take place?

      8. Tom

        Once you cross the security barrier you lose most rights!  Most just don’t know it.  They own you……..and your cavities.  Usually only flight operations personnel, security & “above” know this.  Always have a witness if your going to get cocky about your rights.

      9. Band of the White Rose

        We agree with all above. Non-compliance. Passive Resistance.

      10. VRF

        you know what the next thing comming will be?
        trust me on this one..

        NO CELL PHONES..all people will be instructed to remove the batteries from their cell phones before entering the “protected zone”..any area they deem as a security point.
        Why? they dont want the evidence, they dont want proof, and they dont want you to be able to prove any abuse, or mis-spoken abuse of our rights to be on video or audio. let alone Youtube

        It will soon happen..and it will, under the Guise of “security” and “safety”
        or they will pass a law (that none of us will have a vote on)so if you are ever caught filming them abusing your rights..you will be the one in trouble..Its just a matter of time..its comming to an airport abuse center near you.

        wake up sheeple..
        if only this 1 guy fights this.(or a small number).were doomed..we all need to back this up. this government is seeing that we are not fighting them on all these invasions of our rights, and they have become the “BULLY” in the room.

        we ned to start using their words, phrases, and policies against them in these actions.

        “Bully”….its something they are pushing against in our school systems, (and rightfully) but its their policy..and they are the Bully on the outside against us citizens..turn the tables..its now or never.
        combat them with their own system, and their lazyness.
        flood the system with complaints and law suits..when their legal budgets are drained along with this economy collapse..WE THE PEOPLE will reign supreme.
        Its like this…your either with us …or against us.
        and as I see it..they are against us

      11. Havok

        Dhimmitude, that what this is.

      12. laura m

        I say completely boycott the airlines and these cruise ships as they all have the same  security set ups.  After about six months or way less, they’ll be bankrupt and the free market will take over.    It will take time to get these systems up and running again, but a lesson will be learned:  that they’ve all gone over the edge on personal freedoms.

      13. Tom

        Capt. Vasili Borodin: I will live in Montana. And I will marry a round American woman and raise rabbits, and she will cook them for me. And I will have a pickup truck… maybe even a “recreational vehicle.” And drive from state to state. Do they let you do that?
        Captain Ramius: I suppose.
        Capt. Vasili Borodin: No papers?
        Captain Ramius: No papers, state to state.
        Capt. Vasili Borodin: Well then, in winter I will live in… Arizona. Actually, I think I will need two wives.
        Captain Ramius: Oh, at least.
        The Hunt for Red October

      14. Dave

        I too despise the TSA bureaucrats and government in general, but there is still the issue of having some nut detonate something onboard an aircraft and causing much misery, death & destruction if these inspections aren’t performed.

        A more efficient policy to avoid losing our liberties would be to remove the huge, expensive parasite known as Israel from our backs and bank account since they and the US’s financial & UN vetoes support are the source of the hatred that we are receiving.
        They do NOT hate us for our freedoms, they hate us because the bombs that Israel drops on them was given to them by us.

      15. M

        Bless the TSA and their willingness to grope us and our children to protect us from the 1 in 1.7 billion chance of a terrorist attack.  Thank goodness our protectors have the foresight to prepare for genital bombs, which rank right up there with my serious concern for being statistically eaten by a shark in my bathtub.  Clearly being conditioned to be groped will help make us all much better citizens as we give up our freedoms to keep us safe from those who hate us for the very freedoms we now willingly have given up. 

        Please check with local officials for designated free speech zones to protest against TSA or whatever other agency is willing to irradiate us and even our children, since many adults would normally be unwilling to touch children’s private areas, but thank goodness we have people willing to do anything they are told.  Long live authoritarianism, all you hippies need to go get a job and learn to follow orders blindly, remember ignorance is bliss.

      16. VRF

        our government could stop the threat to this nation..but they dont want to..they are using it to their advantage

        if you dont allow people from the “problem countries” to come here..PERIOD..and you dont allow shipments originated from any of those countries..the threat is non issue.

        our government doest want that,,because then they wouldnt have the fear factor to play on all of us.

        its really that simple

        No more war over there..fortify our borders.. any and all shipments into the USA  from known terrorist or aiding terrorists to end..period.

        time to lock down the USA..that will also help us patriots clean up the debri here in our own government, that has proven themselfs to be nothing but Home Grown Terrorists..against its own citizens

        any “home grown” or extreamest from other countries ..first fumble..your outa here. you have 2 choices death..or deportation.

      17. Mariopsa de Oro

        About the lawssiut, you know our masters are planning to put the porno-scanners in the courthouses, right?  I think some in FloriDUH already have them.  I’m with you though.  I”m done flying until these commie rats bastards stop.

      18. Tom

        Would you go to an airport if the airports were threatened?  Take this a few steps further.  Parking in an airport parking bldg.  How about sitting in a side walk cafe? 

      19. VRF

        the fact that someone(an individual not a printer company like HP or cannon) shipped a “printer cartredge”  from another country and no one saw this as odd?
        we have print cartredges here…in the dam store.

        No one from Dubi, afganistan or any country needs to send stuff like that thru the mail..
        its sold by the MFG. in their packaging and on their shipping dockets.

        alot of red flags like this go un seen..because the “common sense” in this country is shit!

      20. Goldenfoxx

        Comments….. The only way to fight back is to not fly at all.  Put the TSA’s out of work, make them get a real job!  I refuse to fly anywhere now.  If we don’t fight back then we deserve what we are getting. 

      21. Dave

        Goldenfox, here’s the problem with that tactic.
        The government doesn’t have to keep people happy in order to stay in business like the private sector does.
        The TSA can and will remain in place whether you fly, or not.
        The post office can keep losing our mail, slowly, whether they turn a profit or run 3 billion dollars in the red.

        Once a government agency is in place, it is never extinguished without bloodshed.

      22. JANE

        John Tyner did not do anything wrong, but was harassed, detained and intimidated with threats. 
        .
        Just because Mr. Tyner refused to submit to a full body scanner which could hurt his thyroid glands, or damage other organs and violate his 4 Amendment Rights.

      23. JANE

        Didn’t the Elites say the US military occupying of other countries is a “HUMAN RIGHT” issue?
        .
        To the world, the body scanner is considered a human right violation on the US oil. 

        The entire world considers  this as a HUMAN RIGHTS VIOLATION & ALSO VIOLATES U.S. CITIZENS CONSTITUTION RIGHTS. 
        ________________

        Michael Chertoff, Ex-Homeland Security Director, who manufactures body scanners.

      24. Goldenfoxx

        Comments….. Dave:

        I understand that, but like the postal service, they are losing millions of dollars and are in the process of downsizing. But not over terrorist actions, over demand.  Why give the government any weapon like body cavity searches to use against us? Just don’t give them the opportunity.  And fighting back with bloodshed is not a bad idea.  However, we will also lose there as well.  We are paying their salaries to take our basic freedoms away.  Hard thing to stomach.

      25. Jeff

        I am with Goldenfox on this one.  I along with my wife and children will not fly again until these machines are removed.  And Dave I do not think that your statement is correct.  If enough people revolt against these tactics they WILL be removed.  It’s totally up to us.  wewontfly.com

      26. Tom

        I can only guess these machines are only around 1 million each.  Lead apron anyone, anyone?  Anti-reverse Superman sun glasses & dosimeters. 
         

      27. JJ

        Comments…..
        Refusing either scanners or pat downs(euphemisms for abuse) will create long lines…will create schedules for the planes to be sooooo screwed…they won’t fly empty…everyone will be soooo late on the other end of the destination of the plane waiting for the late, delayed plane…it will create chaos…go for it!!!

        Shut the bastards down!!!

      28. Chris C.

        Stop flying. It’s unsustainable anyway. Send a clear message by bankrupting the airlines. The best way to fight back is always through the pocketbook. Slapping them with millions of lawsuits will only embolden them more. Remember, the Constitution can no longer be used as a defense in court for natural persons. Starve the beast.

      29. Anonymous

        the plane!  the plane!  I mean the train!  The train!  Get off of the tracks.  If they can force you to buy free health care that would be a veeerrrrry loooooong line,  do you think they can force you to fly to promote aviation transporation?  Get real Dave.

      30. Patriot One

        Its all about more big government. Have you ever seen a TSA Agent searching a middle eastern man between the ages of 17 and 45?

        Hell, at alot of airports like Dullas in Virginia the middle eastern people between the ages of 21 and 50 are the TSA Agents complete with head scarf and or turbins. What’s wrong with this picture?

        I have been blessed with a very pretty wife and it seems every time we travel some bull dyke randomly selects her for extra screening.

        In Israel they don’t have any of this Hi tech screening nor do they waste time with random searches. They have highly trained agents challenging anyone they think may be a threat.  For the record I don’t think the Israelis have ever had a plain hijacked or a terror threat originate from their state.

        I say let the profiling begin and leave the lawabiding citizens alone.

        Next time you go through TSA security study the agents and you will see many are gay.  Who would you prefer grope you?

        If you don’t think the TSA is worthless. What do you think would happen if they found a real threat. Would you wait here while I call a supervisor, get a cop or sound the alarm.  BOOM!! everyone within 60 feet is dead.

        I further think that the Airlines should inform you before you purchase a ticket that the TSA may want to fondle you or a loved one before boarding.

      31. Anonymous

        @ Dave, have you ever been to Israel or Gaza?  You pay both!  Who supplies “them” with weapons?

      32. sanityjones

        So………….I guess the airlines have been effectively nationalized? Why doesn’t United tell the govt to go to Hell, hire private armed security to travel the unfriendly skies and give the American people a break? Anyone want to start a REAL American Airline??

      33. Fabian

        You don’t want to be pat or scanned, you don’t fly. There is no constitutional right to fly. Simple.

      34. Wen

        Let’s start with a National Refuse to be Strip-Searched or Groped Day! And I will start the refusing myself the next time I air travel. I’d rather be declined a flight, waste a ticket, and even cancel my homecoming than to let them trample the Constitution and give up my liberty.

      35. Wen

        Can’t help noticing what Fabian just posted too. Is that Fabian as in Fabian Socialist?

      36. VRF

        Fabian..
        I dont think its that cut and dry..and I think you might have missed the point a little..
        Its not about the Normal proceedures to be a passenger on a plane, its about the fact this government doesnt know the effects of these devices Yet they are being used, they have no way to protect the images, or those people they have the images of. yet they are used. and when you opt out of  The naked scan..they wolf pack you, and belittle you and than decide its time to violate you phisically because now you have gone against them.
        Thats the problem..

        the typical police pat down does not involve a hand on your privates or up your ass crack or in betwen your 15 year old daugters breasts!..period!

        A person who trades liberty for security deserves niether,, and will more than likely end up, with out both.

        We have equipment and proceedures in place that are already working..yet they wont use them, or are not satisfied with them because they want further contol.

        they poopooed the air marshall deal..
          they should be back skattering  Xray the shippments and packages.. not your crotch.

        Go to a different country..I’ll pick Peru’
           if you go to the airport..they dont have Fat asses walking around with a TSA target on their sleeve and a dohnut in their mouth..they have Men in shape..in camo..with AR15 or ak47 and a German sheppard or rotwiler..you fucking step outa line and act stupid you might get to slide out of there weighing about 1400 grains heavier

        they arnt having any problems there..they have typical security, lust like we had before the day our government traded our freedoms for lies..9-11 except serious military presence.

        you look at a typical metro Airport..You will see Thousands Standing Around..see how the first letters spell TSA? ..one thing my commander always stressed..Dont Congrigate!..one grenade will take you all out!..some people will understand what that means
        but these people are not trained, and they are a huge liability.
        because they are not trained..they are just stuffed suits with absolutly no arrest powers..they have to “call it in”

      37. 1diamondinvestor

        WOW! The government will use its endless resources provided for by THE TAX PAYERS of this country to make it very difficult for this  gentleman.  I believe that  the govt is going to make it a financial burden and a unbelievable hassle for this poor guy. They want all of us to comply with everything that is handed down  at us without regards to personal liberty and constituitional protection.  This country and other Western countries that claim to be FREE  are slowly becoming a farce.  Turn around the corner there’s a camera watching you, turn the other corner there is the police officer waiting and checking you for speeding,  if a stoplight/speed camera is not available . New cars coming out with GPS monitoring.  I fly alot with family and boy is it becoming  a huge hassle! I’m seriously considering becoming a  private pilot to fly with my family and not go through the endless hassles at the airport security TSA.  Not sure but,  I heard one of the Big Wigs at Homeland Security invested financially in the body scanners and hope to make a profit if it is installed at all the airports?  Talk about financial conflicts of interest!   What about the Capt/Crew/Stewart of the airplanes? All the frequent and recurrent imaging  have not been studied for the longterm ill health effects from the ionizing radiation. I say there must be a better way than stripping all of our rights as soon as you enter the airport.  Lets start using common sense at the govt!  Also, if there any charges brought against this gentlemen, then it’s truly an abuse of powers!

      38. clark

        Fabian, there’s this:

        The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

      39. REB

        9th and 10th Ammendments to the US Constitution 
             The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage “others retained”(like flying or traveling in general) by the people.
        So, even if the 4th Amendment didn’t enumerate an individual citizen’s right to privacy, or the 2nd Amendment didn’t protect the individual citizen’s right to keep and bear arms, THE NINTH AMENDMENT DOES.
         
         
            The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution,(like creating TSA ect) nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.
        NOwhere in the Constitution is any police power or jurisdiction over criminal law other than that regarding treason and counterfeiting given to the federal government.

        Seems pretty clear to me that the one WITHOUT any rights is the federal government…NOT we the people!

      40. Anonymous

        U r simple Fabean!

      41. 2bad

        Comments….. It really seems to the government has too much power & it has gone to every law makers head if they can make life just a little more miserable for the US CITIZENS it would feather their caps. I say tar & feather all the lawmakers have a 10 years roll back minimum on BS laws.  Complain daily to these representatives & their families. make their lives miserable as they have ours. OBAMA included. This is a plain violation of the constitution amendments or not. If we don’t take back AMERICA NOW these dumb asses will take away our freedom forever with a “NEW CONSTITUTION” that is what they r really after.

      42. Jane

        Fabean,

        As Mac said: “As a federal agency, the TSA is essentially a police force acting on orders of, and at the pleasure of, the United States Congress and the President of the United States.

        As such, they must respect the rights of individuals as protected by the Constitution.”

        Anyone (Congress and President) who runs this country or operates a business has to follow the laws of the land.  The laws of the land are based on the U.S. Constitution.

        To intimidate, harass or threaten people to go against their constitutional rights or their will is INHUMAN and just simply WRONG (no matter what excuses you have.) 

      43. Jane


        It appears that the bankers already have their own constitution. 

        Once the U.S. falls into chaos, then they will say they are out to SAVE AMERICA AGAIN – NOT!

      44. JT OConnor

        Comments…..I watched that vapor brain, Janet Napolitano commenting tonight on this case.   Though the thought is repugnant, who wants to bet that she submits to these searches?  And secondly, now that Pelosi is losing her big AF California Shuttle and will now have to fly commercial, does anyone think the witch will undergo the humiliation she imposes on the average American?

      45. honestann

        The time is far, far, far, far, far, far overdue for armed revolution!

        The predators-that-be who are in control of the government of the USSA (and the states), plus the vast majority of thugs they employ, are guilty of billions if not trillions of acts of treason and crimes against humanity.

        The power-tripping scum need to stand down, or else.

      46. Roger

        Comments…..
        Dave –

        You need to read “Muslim Mafia” and see why you are not correct about Israel being the only cause of their hatred of us.  They want the whole world under their thumbs – look up the word “caliphate” – if you are not Muslim you will either be dead or a dhimmi.  We now have terrorist supporters in our own government, even in the National Security Dept.  It is time for you to get educated about their threat to our nation.  England may be the first Western nation to fall under their power – the estimate is 20 years for one of theirs to be selected as prime minister.

      47. Mariposa de Oro

        I’d like to present a small silver lining to the creation of the Leftist police state. Look at it this way.  The GOP is gaining power.  They will not dismantle the police state.  However, they won’t hesistate to use it against their political opponents.  And whom might those opponents be?  Why the marxists in power and their supporters thought the country.  Our liberal friends are putting all the controls in place that the Republican will need to round them up, convict and then imprison them!  All that we need to do is help the GOP take control of the liberal created police state, and then use it to get eliminate the liberals!  Careful what you wish for, Obama0Bots.  Yeah, we’ll still be stuck with a police state but at least we won’t have to put up with those nasty leftists because they’ll all be in FEMA camps, convicted of treason!  I’ll be voting accordingly.  Have an ObamaDay Liberals. :o)
         Palin/2012

      48. Ragfish

        So, what does “Big Sis” and the TSA have in store for us in light of the Saudi Arabian   ‘butt bomber’, who had explosives secreted in his rectum?  Will they be doing random sigmoidoscopies or merely a DRE (digital rectal exam)?

           Also, has anyone heard about Chertoff (which means devil in Russian) having a financial interest in the back scatter technology? http://www.boston.com/news/nation/washington/articles/2010/01/02/group_slams_chertoff_on_scanner_promotion/

      49. Anonymous

        Roger

        We’re ahead of the Brits by 22 years!

      50. Ragfish

        Do the body scanners detect “body cavity” devices. If shoes off is the response to the shoe bomber, and body scanners the response to the underwear bomber, what can we expect from DHS and the TSA next?
          In September 2009, Al Queda nearly knocked off a Saudi prince in charge of their anti-terrorism program via a butt bomber! Will TSA be performing random sigmoidoscopies or DRE’s?

      51. Federalist45

        Roger: You wrote: “England may be the first Western nation to fall under their power – the estimate is 20 years for one of theirs to be selected as prime minister.”  If that is the standard, it would seem to me that the U.S. is the first Western nation to have fallen–after all, one of “theirs” is our President, right?  Or not? 

        Seems to me that REB has it right.  The whole thing come down to the usurpation of power by the Central Government in spite of the Constitution’s clear intent to the contrary.  The power-grab by the Central Government is the root of all political evil in our history, if not all of history.  This power-grab is why Americans fought the Revolution, drafted and ratified the Constitution and Bill of Rights, seceded from the Union and defended the C.S.A., turned down Wilson’s perverse vision of a League of Nations, and have fought power-hungry monsters, Left and Right, for 200 years.   The problem is that after 220 years of chipping away at the granite block of liberty, the Statists have knocked it down into a few disparate pieces of rights.  And they are still chipping away at those.  

        Here is the thing–WE want our granite block back.  Can we ever restore that granite block?  Of course not.  The best we could do is gather all the pieces, down to the dust, and try to glue them back together.  But it will never be sound.  The first Statist hammer will split it apart.  The only thing WE can do is find a NEW GRANITE BLOCK OF LIBERTY.  WE have to find it then protect it from the Statists.  WE have failed to do that for 220 years.  We let the likes of Lincoln, TR, Wilson, FDR, JFK, LBJ, RMN, Jammy Carter, the Bush family, Obama, and all their cronies in business, politics, state and local government, media, and academia beat the living hell out of our granite block of liberty, given to us through the blood of patriots and fires of heated politics in the founding era.  We sent boys to fight dozens of wars in the name of preserving the granite block of liberty, but we turned out backs and let the monsters among us destroy it.  It is our fault.  WE, the People, failed not just our own generations, but future generations.
        So, how do we find our new granite block and protect it?  The time is coming, I suspect, when we will have two choices.  Accept Orwellian totalitarian rule or not.  It will be up to us and our children.  

      52. fred

        If this type of search becmes the norm at airports, it raises questions for the under 18 traveler

        Does generating a computerized picture of the naked under 18 person constitute child pornography?
        Does the touching of the genital area of someone under 18 constutute chile molestation?

        i would think the answer to both is yes, so what’s the difference between a TSA agent and the local pedophile?  The badge and guise of authority.

        another question, if a local police officer tried to do this kind of search at a traffic stop, would it be a violation of the detainee’s civil rights?  Most would find such a search appalling, so again, what’s the difference between the local police officer and the TSA agent?

      53. troublemaker

        I listened and watched the video and Mr. Tyner is wrong. Yes he was able to refuse the scan and TSA accepted that. They then followed the procedure to patdown in the standard way. The comment about the checking between the breasts and the groin area are standard in a patdown. The movies are not always correct. Women typically hid items in the bras and  in the groin, men typically hide things in the groin and the butt. It is typically the back pf hte hand to feel is something is unsual in those areas and not groping. The procedures are implimented to try to prevent terrist activties from occurring. If you think this is bad wait until more actual attacks actually succeed. Also on the body scan please,you are dressed and if you look at  one from the doctors office you see the images of breasts and such. And yes i have a daughter and yes if she was chosen to have the patdown she would be complying. I went through TSA a couple of months ago and had a hassle but big deal.  I’d rather go through a little hassle than get blowup in midair.

      54. Woods

        This is the “line in the sand”. Now we see if America is “Land of the Free, Home of the Brave” …… or just a country of knee-bending grovelers.
        Tell that Nazi-Dyke-Bridge-Troll you will WALK nationwide before before you will submit to Dictatorship.
        “Integrity, Team Spirit, Innovation” is sewn around the border of the newest TSA patch.
        Have you EVER seen an organization that had to SEW A REMINDER not to STEAL, LIE, and CHEAT on their own shoulders!!!!
        “INTEGRITY” ……….. STEAL from the passengers.
        “TEAM SPIRIT” ……. BACK-STAB your CO-Workers and the PASSENGERS
        “INNOVATION” …….. IN CHEATING on their own tests.
        Supervisors padding their hours to make house payments.
        Supervisors staggering in drunk.
        Supervisors yelling all NON-Christians should leave the country
        Supervisors expressing their desire to see certain U.S. Senators DEAD
        Real good organization.
        Even DHS admits that half of their practice bombs get through TSA despite the groping and fondling.
        TSA, that Michael Chertoff used to RUN.
        By the way, The x-rays that take “virtual photos” destroy your DNA at relatively low energy levels.
        You know who else wanted you to strip naked for security? Hitler.
        But hey, Michael Chertoff is making lot of MONEY using his status as FORMER HEAD of DHS/TSA to sell them for RAPISCAN.
        A fish rots from the HEAD..
        Michael Chertoff kicked off this airport security hysteria while head of Homeland Security, then left his job to found the Chertoff Group, which profits handsomely providing security consulting, services and systems to airports around the country. Chertoff Group also employs General Michael V. Hayden, former director of both the Central Intelligence Agency and the National Security Agency. These are all the people who mandated increased airport security, and now as private citizens profit handsomely from their own policies made while in office. This is classic political looting of the public; create a crisis that does not really exist, and sell the people a solution.

      55. Woods

        The only “war” is on Your RIGHTS, not Terror. Remember the Jan. 2005 PANIC due to a rumor that Chinese with a NUKE had crossed the Mexican border and were headed to blow up Boston. The border is STILL wide open …… so like …. they care about airplanes but NOT about whole cities being NUKED?!
        http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009/02/26/60minutes/main4831806.shtml
        Above is a transcript from March 2nd 2009 (rerun on June 21) 60 MINUTES. In brief, the Government acknowledges that it has no control of the border. TONS of drugs and Millions of ILLEGALS enter this country. TONS of cash and TONS of weapons leave this country. They have no way of knowing how many “TERRORISTS” have crossed (IF there IS such a creature)
        TWO things were of major interest:
        (1) The Department of Homeland Security acknowledges they have no control – therefore, HOW are they going to protect YOU from TERRORISTS,
        when they REFUSE to stop gangbangers, YARD WORKERS, NANNIES, COOKS from strolling across.
        (2) The “head” of the Department of Homeland Security (and others) tries to blame your RIGHT to keep and bear ARMS for the weapons going south. The only trouble is …….. they showed and talked of MISSILES, HAND GRENADES, BELT FED MACHINES GUNS. Those are weapons STOLEN FROM THE AMERICAN MILITARY. They are not coming from the SEMI-auto Civilian world! They are direct from your Military’s ARMORIES. Not only can your Government NOT PROTECT the borders …. and YOU. The Government CANNOT HANG ON TO IT’S OWN WEAPONS!!!

      56. Ron P

        Comments…..I already swore off flying EVER again due to a “grope” search in Seattle. I have a hip replacement and have suffered the indignity of a search other than the metal detector for the last time. I am 63 and DO NOT fit in anyway the profile for which this whole scam was designed. STOP FLYING! It is a shame the airlines have to suffer due to the utter stupidity of our “government.”

      57. Steve

        Just the governments way of taking our civil rights away so they can really control us. This is a democracy not socialsom, were they tell you what to do. Hey we pay you to do the right thing with all the tax’s you get from us and all you do is line your pockets with our $$ and then have the guts to keep asking for more! Our fore fathers are probably rolling around in their graves right about now!! Why did we leave England?????

      58. VRF

        Steve..your wrong..this is Not a Democracy..its a Republic..

        a Democracy is Mob rules
        a Republic is governed by rules and laws

        I Pledge Allegiance to the flag
        of the United States of America
        and to the Republic
        for which it stands,
        one Nation under God,
        indivisible,
        with liberty and justice for all
        .

        Outside Independence Hall when
        the Constitutional Convention of 1787 ended,
        Mrs. Powel of Philadelphia asked Benjamin Franklin,
        “Well, Doctor, what have we got, a republic or a monarchy?”
        With no hesitation whatsoever, Franklin responded,
        “A republic, if you can keep it.”

        Its not just semantics…theres a difference..and the difference and knowing the difference an be a Huge problem for those that believe this is a Democracy

        you mst have went to public school and believed all you were taught..clue..the public school system is run by this corrupt government that doesnt want you to know you have rights
        Rights WE the People gave them..Not the other way around

      59. VRF

        Steve..sorry ..please dont take the above as an attack..its not.

        But you would have no idea how many Americans dont know what form of government we are “supposed” to be under.

        and Just because we have a Democrat in office doesnt mean our Government changes..
        A democrat in office doesnt change a Republic Government , into a Democracy..
        its not changed due to Party affiliation. 

        The Fact that we have so many uninformed or untruthfully educated individuals in this country that dont really know the “real deal” when it comes to how this country was founded and why a Republic was chosen…its sad..and I dont blame the person..I blame our educational system and our government for trying to pull the blinders over so many peoples eyes, and it seems they have done a very effective job doing so..

        My 12 year old daughter had to educate her social studies teacher as to how incorrect the teacher was when she marked a test my child had with the question 
        What form of Government is the USof A?..and of course she answered Republic and got it wrong!..but ended up taking it all the way to the principal of the school to get the teachers head put back on straight.

        theres plenty of History to prove this..please go by the History..not word of mouth or opinions..because as i have shown there are a lot of misinformed people about the truth.
         

        and the fact that we have a society that there is ANY percentage that doesnt know the real make up of our government ..is why and how they are able to manipulate the constitution of this country and Our Rights that We gave our forefathers

      60. Tom

        Troublemaker,  you don’t seem to understand.  Do you think “airports” will be safe because Thousands Standing Around?  Connect the dancing dots and look fwd.  Ask them for a double or triple scatter x-ray.

      61. donald null breaux

        Comments…..We as americans ,whose great grandfathers,grandfathers,grandmothers,fathers,mothers,sons,daughters  and future children many who died for our freedoms must NOW tell the government our liberties will not SUCCUMB! We all do not fly, with the holiday season around the corner we will send the right message to the government that their antics are now and forever unacceptable period.

      62. stilo

        Comments…..The Muslim religion began as an offshoot of the Catholic Church, but it backfired. Way to go.

      63. Anonymous

        Don’t tell them you’re a wide receiver or tight end.

      64. Rene

        Comments…..Isreal wrote the book on airport safety as well as saving their own people from the enemy who tries to kill and maim them every day of the year.
        Why would their systems not be put in place in the US who has been one of the best friends to Isreal from day one.
        Instead the gov. brings in these safety systems that do not work.
        It is very simple sub US security out to Isreal, they are the experts.

      65. Anonymous

        I am an American working overseas.  There are no ships that I can take to visit the States.  So i fly.  The last time, I was not allowed to leave the arrival airport’s screening area (passport control) until I produced an address that I would be staying at.  I knew where i was staying, but I didn’t recall the street address of the place.  the authorities di look up the address in a telephone book and then let me go.  But why do I, an American citizen, have to say where I’m going to be staying? 

      66. sjdude

        A few comments:

        1. The purpose of discouraging air travel is this: Face to face communications is the last and only private form of communication available. Every other way of communicating with someone remotely is tapped, recorded, and ultimately decrypted. To prevent any long range organizing against the government, it has to block and disrupt private communications.

        2. I’ve been considering ways to shove the civil rights abuses in their faces. I think we should consider a way of funding young people, who are largely unemployed thanks to the Fed and the government anyway, to purchase airline tickets but with no intent of traveling. They would show up, and then decline to be scanned or groped. You pay them $100 per “trip” (You pay the extra fee for refundable tickets). This both floods the court system, employs young people, and teaches them the abuse of rights the government is practicing, making sure that the next generation will despise the legislators appropriately.

        3. If a legitimate community legal fund to aid in John Tyner’s defense is set up, I will gladly contribute to it.

        4. The greatest concentration of real terrorists in our nation are located in Washington D.C.

      67. H MAN

        I found this comment on another site and I thought it was awesome….

        Allah- Akbar! Peace be upon the TSA and U.S. Homeland Security Secretary Janet Napolitano for making our Jihad so much easier this time. In the name of the most merciful we may now employ our new IEEDs, (Improvised Enema Explosive Devices). While you Americans and the TSA are busy having your wives and children violated in front of all and your manhood handled by rent-a-cops, someone else could have been busy too! You see, let’s make up a nonexistent character called Martyr Mahmoud, Blessings upon him, and what if he got up this morning after fasting for 30 hrs. Preparing, perhaps a condom filled with .5 pounds of C4.
        A little molding elongating, a little olive oil, relax now, ..there that wasn’t so bad. Now take 3 showers, scrub any possible residue. The little micro blasting cap is so mixed up with the laptop wiring that even Mahmoud has to look carefully; ah there it is Now you can walk in the scanners with confidence or even endure the infidels enhanced pat down, whatever tickles the TSA’s fancy. Now of course this would not work on an Israeli airline, they don’t bother groping and scanning, they notice my name, when I buy my ticket and when I check in, my photograph is already zooming through some secure lines, They ask me some questions, check their intelligence data base, profile, then profile me some more and before you know it I would be in a room talking to someone from Mossad and that would be the end of my road.
        6 months later…CNN SPECIAL REPORT>>>>>>>”The new rectum probes are being done as a process to make sure the traveling public is safe,” she said, adding that the probes did not pose health risks and that privacy safeguards have been adopted”.
        Americans have a problem with being screened to board an airliner with cosmetic security by a reactive
        T otaly
        S tupid
        A gency
        I predicted the underwear bomber a year before it happened, why, DUH, it was common sense.
        What is my answer?
        Who do the terrorists hate the most?
        The Israelis.
        Who has a perfect airline security record?
        The Israelis.
        Who does no routine groping and x-ray strip searches?
        The Israelis.
        Who profiles more than anyone in the world and has the best intelligence data base?
        The Israelis.
        Fire Ms. Napolitano and hire Israeli Mossad to manage our airport security.

      68. VRF

        The next move..will be they remove the terrorists kidney and implant a bomb that looks like a kidney.
        theres no way around this reactively..they need to be pro active

        my suggestion..
        screw the xray backscatter machines..
        and pat downs

        build a bomb proof cabinet, person walks into cabinet..if they have any explosives in or on thier person it is detonated by the controls in the cabinet..once the device is exploded on its person, the cabinet is sealed and disposed of..problem solved..
        and everyone walks thru these..no naked scans..no handeling of your “junk” or a feel up of your wife or kids..
        and no court costs for the terrorists for the tax payers to be burdoned with and the lengthy court process
        very simple and ready made to dispose of the problem and the problem people.

        Im Dead serious about this..im not joking or making light of this..this is how this problem should be delt with..
        the suicide bombers will be non effective with this technology..and these bomb cabinets wont cost us a Million each..and even if they did..they would be well worth it.

      69. mickey the pirate

        Comments…..You are all missing an important point…sure some of you are shy…some of you are even monogomous… Some of us even consider it uncool to be raped by somebody you find unattractive or perhaps unfriendly..Heck..the whole (hole) rape part of it would offend most of us…but sometimes you just cannot resist effectively…passive resistance could be the better way to go…What happens if everybody asks for a pat..down…what happens if everybody is so damned nice about it..begging for them…what if everybody asks for a very careful examination and reminds the agents that they need to check carefully and not to miss anything because everybody is in danger if they do not do their job correctly…why..we could even report agents who do not do their duties completely, throughly and carefully since they are a threat to our traveling safety…
        HOW LONG WILL THE LINES GET???
        HOW MUCH MONEY WILL THE AIRLINES AND AIRPORTS LOOSE???
        MONEY TALKS AND THAT IS ALL POLITICIANS (THIEVES) LISTEN TO
        NOT GRANNY WHO DOES NOT WANT A PROBE
        NOT A PARENT WHO DOES NOT WANT SOMEBODY FEELING UP HIS DAUGHTER
        THIS WILL END WHEN THE AIRLINES LOOSE BILLIONS PER QUARTER…
        BUT….
        If you recieve a really Really REALLY intense and pleasurable grope…feel…probe…or hand….nevermind…
        Can you legally give your TSA Dominatrix a tip????

      70. John

        The TSA has gone too far. Why is it that the Government is more than willing to subject their own people to these terribly invasive pat downs rather than simply do what nations like Isreal have been doing for years. Interviews and profiling! Why can’t we say it? Is the threat coming from Grandma, businessmen and children? NO! Look for patterns. Did you buy a one way ticket? Do you fit the PROFILE (there I said it!) stop feeling up children!

      71. Bruce

        Comments….. Lets just start stripping in public. If some unknown security guard can have a good look at you , why not bare all. Let’s keep it out in the open what happens. Our governments have too much power and power corrupts. . .  The founding fathers must be rolling in their graves. Their wisdom has not become out of date.

      72. JG

        No more flights for me, my wife and any and all family members.

        One by one, we can make a positive difference.  Take a stand and commit to no longer fly commercial flights.

        It’s time to refuse abusive government practices or suffer the consequences and lose your rights to privacy.

      73. Gil

        Perfect example of Government Mentality on How To Raise Money!

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