Rosenberg: This is a ‘Depression, Not Just Some Garden Variety Recession’

by | Aug 25, 2010 | Headline News | 41 comments

Do you LOVE America?


    CNBC provided contrarian economist David Rosenberg a five minute opportunity to discuss the economic outlook and his thoughts on the depressionary cycle, which according to Rosenberg, we can expect for years to come.

    In his daily newsletter to investors, Rosenberg says that the current economic conditions are “a depression, and not just some garden-variety recession.

    The following is excerpted from his CNBC interview. (Video below excerpts and commentary)

    No two cycles are the same. I think what we’re starting to see is that this is not a classic, garden variety manufacturing inventory recession caused by inflation or the Fed tightening policy. This is a balance sheet recession – It’s a debt deleveraging. These animals are different in nature.

    It doesn’t pay to be delusional or be an ostrich with your head in the sand. See this for what it is. We’ve been destroying bad debt for the past couple years – the excess credit that we created that gave us that artificial recovery for five years. And people think we’re going to expunge this in just a year or two. That’s not how history plays out.

    Maybe this isn’t the case where the evil banks are being overly stringent and not lending money. Maybe this is a case where, especially in the household sector, they’ve been so scarred by the trauma that hit their balance sheets from the 30% slide in real estate prices. And of course, look at the debt delinquencies and defaults. The sole experiment and experience we’ve had with excessive leverage at the margin has left misery in its wake. The delinquency rates of consumer loans and on mortgage debt went to levels that you haven’t seen since the 1930’s.

    This has a tremendous psychological impact on the desire on the part of consumers, or households, to take on credit. This is actually beyond economics. We’re talking about real psychological trauma here, much like you had in the 1930’s.

    If it isn’t obvious to you yet, it will be soon. August 2010 home sales numbers, which are the worst on record, are an important indicator. We’ve been telling our readers since April that the financial mainstream media’s purported housing recovery was nothing but a mirage driven by the $8000 tax credit, which expired at the beginning of the summer. In April, our response to the 27% increase in newly built home sales was as follows:

    Once the tax credits disappear, the stimulus ends, and these foreclosed homes start getting marked appropriately on bank books, it’s all coming down – heck, it might come down before that. Expect real estate values to be destroyed. What’s really going to hurt the real estate market, is that even though prices might fall 20% or more from here, mortgage rates are going up because of all the money printing and debt being created by Washington. This may make it twice as hard for housing to recover. Back in the early 80’s mortgage rates were over 10% – hard to believe, but it can certainly happen again.

    We are not even close to being out of the woods. There is a Second Wave of the Housing Collapse, and as we and other forecast in November of 2009, it is now in full effect.

    This is going to sound crazy to some, but not to those who have studied housing bubbles of the past, especially Japan: We can expect a further housing decline of 20% to 50% from here over the course of the next decade.

    To understand what is happening requires that you begin thinking on time lines of years and decades, not hours or days like the talking heads on CNBC do.

    This isn’t about the stock market. This is about our economy coming to a complete standstill. As Rosenberg pointed out, credit lending and the desire to borrow has collapsed, and so long as there is no leverage (credit) in the system, there will be no recovery, until that time, of course, when productive capacity and price stabilization returns to the free market. Unfortunately, this may not happen for a really, really long time and we will have many surprises along the way, one of which may be an eventual hyperinflationary depression if The Federal Reserve and US Treasury continue on their current course.

    Our outlook right now?

    Regardless of whether or not the The Federal Reserve and US Government move in with more stimulus (pulling forward even more demand like they did with the automobile and housing credit), industry bailouts and quantitative easing, we are likely to go into a severe contraction across the board which will include negative GDP growth, a retest of the 2009 stock market lows, a collapse in housing and more job losses. Of course, we can not underestimate the power of the printing press, thus the Fed may be able to “stabilize” prices as they did over the last 12 months in housing and stocks, but this stabilization will only be in nominal terms. The more they print, the worse the inflationary impact will be down the road.

    (This article was updated on 08-25-10 @ 15:30 for further clarification of certain points)

    View the CNBC Interview with David Rosenberg:


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        “Our outlook right now?
        Unless the Federal Reserve and US Government move in with more stimulus (pulling forward even more demand like they did with the automobile and housing credit), industry bailouts and quantitative easing, we are likely to go into a severe contraction across the board which will include negative GDP growth, a retest of the 2009 stock market lows, a collapse in housing and more job losses.”
        That is pure BS!  Look at all the stimulus that’s been handed out even when Bush was in office?  Bailout after bailout and we are still going down the tubes.  You can’t keep throwing “stimulus” into an bottomless pit. What we need now is massive tax cuts, and massive cuts to federal/state/local government. Get people back to work.  Bring all those companies that took the jobs overseas and give them an incentive to come back.  Repaving roads just to repave them is a dead end job. These are not renewable sustainable jobs.  What worked in the 30’s and 40’s won’t work now….unless we go to war. Who wants that? Not me.  We don’t have the money for a stimulus.  We know what happens when the government continues to print money, history is repeating itself but far worse than in the 30’s. Bernanke should know better, afterall, he claims he’s an expert on the Great Depression.  What? He can’t see that we’re in one  now? Incompetence at its best.
        Anyone ever hear of the Hindenberg Omen?  This mathematician predicts where we are headed. Supposedly he has called every down turn since 1987.

      2.  Those of us who comment here know how dire the situation is. That’s why it is so important to build that food supply, and acquire skills and other provisions that will help you get through the hard times ahead. If you can survive the initial chaos, the odds will be in your favor. It could take a long time before stores reopen if/when the SHTF. And food will be at the top of everyone’s list.
        Also, check out the previous articles on this website. Mac has provided us with a lot of insight and helpful information. And the comments can provide some heads up on what’s going on across the country. Here in NE Florida the job market is very dismal. Used cars for sale everywhere. And fewer people dining out compared to a year ago. Not uncommon to see furniture piled up for trash removal as landlords clean out rental properties, where tenants just packed what they could carry and left. Some people pull over and go through the piles to see if there is something they could use, or sell in a yard sale. Went to a yard sale that was actually at a storage facility. The couple were literally giving stuff away because they could no longer afford to rent the space. And yet the county has bought new service vehicles and raised property taxes. Police are writing tickets for the smallest infraction of the law, and city bus drivers are demanding raises or threaten to go on strike. We are witnessing a major economic downturn in this country.
        Gear up folks.

      3. Goldenfoxx ,

        My bad on that statement you quoted. I can see where my suggestion about further fed stimulus and bailouts may be confused with recovery. My intention was not to suggest that things will get better if we pump in more stimulus, bailouts or QE. I should have been more clear. We’re screwed either way… I guess what I was getting at is that the we’re either going down hard core right now in terms of stock prices and housing, or, the Fed will pump in more to “stabilize” prices… In either case, we are going to shed more jobs and GDP is going to tank…

        I may need to make an update to that statement to make this point a bit more clear.

        Thanks for pointing that out… I should re-read my ramblings and rants more often…


      4. AU spot is holding up @ $1240.  They are still giving it away for FRN’s.  Interesting that AG has been leading AU the last two days.

      5. The administration and Fed is pumping borrowed and printing press money into the economy to prop it up until AFTER the election.  That is when TSHTF. 

      6. @ Tom
        I read that hyperinflation article yesterday, and agree that the potential for a flash crash is very high. If it happens tomorrow the panic would empty shelves by the end of the week.A lot of people will be left empty handed and that could lead to riots and looting. Yes, O.P., Jax, St Aug,,,, lots of stores closed, lots of unemployment. Paychecks from NAS Jax and Mayport are keeping this area afloat ( along with unemployment benefit extentions ). Military cuts will break this town. There was a lot of people hoping that carrier group would create another construction boom. Not going to happen.

      7. When it all goes down Obama supporters are goners. 

        Watch how fast they peel off those bumper stickers to hide their political allegiances.  Too late though.  Everyone knows who they are and what they stand for.  Traitors, just like their illegal president.   

      8. Comments…..Mac, it’s okay to say what you said because there’s a lot of other “economists” saying the same thing–Paul Krugman for one.  I don’t think you believe throwing money away will help anything, and you are right we are going down, we’re not even 1/2 way there yet.

        Wheedle is right about the food. Did any one see that pic of all the trucks lined up in a traffic jam in China and it could last for months?  If we had one little glitch in the JIT (just in time), we could see massive shortages of everything.  How many times have you heard someone say “it couldn’t happen here?”  Ever look in the back storage room of a grocery store?  They may have a pallet of TP, but that’s about it.  A truck arrives every day and restocking at night.  If a truck doesn’t show up for a couple of days all hell breaks loose.

        Greece isn’t out of the woods yet, they haven’t figured out how to reduce government spending or how to get people off the public teat.  They are scared to do anything that will upset the apple cart because they know what people will do.

        America is bankrupt.  If the US reneges on their obligations, that will leave a whole lot of people penniless. Like Roosevelt, the government will call in all the gold and silver hoarders. 

        Take care of yourself and family first.

      9. Paul Revere,
        I can remember Carter, when elected.  Just like Barry, he was the great savior of the nation.   Then 2 years latter,  no one would admit to voting for him, either.

        I don’t think this country can last 2 more years of  Barry H. O.   And if it does,  I agree that it will be almost impossible to find anyone who voted for him.

      10. “August 2010 home sales numbers, which are the worst on record, are an important indicator.”

        Are you serious Mac?  Really?  Come on man.  The increase in home buying during the tax credit and the decrease after the tax credit both mean nothing.  We saw frontloading and now we are going to see the decrease.
        As Lawrence Yung said in this article:

        “Even with sales pausing for a few months, annual sales are expected to reach 5 million in 2010 because of healthy activity in the first half of the year. To place in perspective, annual sales averaged 4.9 million in the past 20 years, and 4.4 million over the past 30 years.”

        So we are on pace to reach the 20 yr. avg.  Does it take a genius to realize it just won’t be even buying throughout the year, obviously due to the tax credit?  How biased and one-sided can you be?  I’m going to start calling you Keith Olbermann.  Not expecting it to change though.

      11. In order to help people make their own educated decision based on the facts.

        “The International Air Transport Association (IATA) announced international scheduled traffic statistics for July which showed continued strengthening of demand for both passenger and cargo traffic. Compared to July 2009, international passenger demand was up 9.2% while international scheduled freight traffic showed a 22.7% improvement.

      12. The American Trucking Associations’ advance seasonally adjusted (SA) For-Hire Truck Tonnage Index increased 1.5% in July.
        Compared with July 2009, SA tonnage climbed 7.4%, which matched June’s increase and was the eighth consecutive year-over-year gain. Year-to-date, tonnage is up 6.7% compared with the same period in 2009. {8E1C7279-ED27-4C03-B189-CEEEE26BBB12}

      13. Global shipping boom continues….

        Georgia’s Port of Savannah reported the busiest month for container shipments in its history in July, with 251,126 20-foot equivalent units moving through the port in an accelerating shipping recovery. The 20.7 percent year-to-year increase marked the eighth straight month of double-digit growth in volume at the Georgia Ports Authority’s Savannah terminals.

        Container volume at the Port of Charleston increased 26 percent in July over the same month last year, giving the port its strongest month since October 2008.’s-container-volume-jumps-26-percent

      14. So no one calls me Keith Olbermann I will provide a negative article.

        Morgan Stanley warns in a report Wednesday that the sovereign debt crisis is far from over — and won’t end till deeply indebted rich country governments give holders of their bonds a good soaking.
        “Governments will impose a loss on some of their stakeholders,” Arnaud Mares in the firm’s London office wrote in a research report today. “The question is not whether they will renege on their promises, but rather upon which of their promises they will renege, and what form this default will take.” The sovereign-debt crisis is global “and it is not over,” he wrote.

      15. US credit-card delinquencies tumbled in the 2Q as individuals’ average balance hit an eight-year low and nonpayments dropped at the fastest pace since the end of 2007, according to consumer-credit rater TransUnion. Credit-card accounts 90 days or more overdue were 0.92%, down 21% y/y and 17% from the 1Q. The figure is projected to stay below 1% the rest of the year, TransUnion said.

      16. Hey Missouri;  I think that the difference is that Carter was a “transitional” president of sorts.  Remember when the economy went to shit and he came on National TV and told us all to “wear a sweater”?  If we had taken the advice then and gone on the “austerity measures” think how much faster and easier it would have been to 1) pay off the national debt, 2) become energy independant………..Carter was pouring money into research and all of it was canned when Reagan got elected.

        I think that Carter (although he WAS INCOMPETENT) was the last American President to act with the best interests of Americans at his heart.  Every one of them since has set new records in how fast they could lie to, and sell out, the American people at the same time.

        We are halfway down the “slippery slope” and there is no stopping this motherfucker……….

      17. Bruno:  Your shitting blue skittles again & nobody “here” is picking them up.  No 5 minute rule!  USS Indianapolis 
        Weedle:  USA will reconsider when something goes wrong in VA’s transit to outer buoy.  But then again the  USS Indianapolis pulled out the night before Dec. 7th.  One of the survivors lives down your way at PV.  Read the book & you will know his name.  Drive safe on Park St.  I agree on last.  How many times have they dredged already.  Politics!

      18. Don’t be fooled into thinking that the feds will do what will be the best for the recovery,they want just the opposite.
        You see,if the economy crashes hard with severe deprivation,riots and even starvation,masses of people will look to the government for salvation and voila!,the leftists/statists control freaks will happily comply.
        We’ll have a Roosevelt big government expansion on steroids with all the needed clampdowns private property,increased taxation and to top it off,possibly the attempt at confiscating those pesky guns that the dems hate so much (for the safety of the children,of course).
        Things are getting interesting.

      19. All of this must occur to usher in the New World Order.Their is no stopping it .No voteing, Protesting, Government changes will stop this. Its goingt o happen !

        All of this is  also by design and its just no accident .
        Its coming in stages and before you know it, it will just get really bad .  All the Government can do is temporily make it a steady decline rather than a total crash .They have that ability for now with printing of money  but its only temporary and eventually they will roll belly up .  

      20. Paul and LostInMissouri,

        I was 18 and I voted for Carter. I remember how I thought he would do great things for the country. What he did was absolutely destroy the economy. He helped create the term stagflation.

        People that interfere with the economic controls end up screwing over the populace. With 0bama, I think its intentional. I think he INTENDS to try and wreck this country so his marxist bastard cabal can try and rebuild it into the largest slave nation on earth. But, I don’t think that was Carter’s deal. Honestly, I think the big government people really believe they can make things better by expanding the beast.

        The fact is, the worse this depression gets, the happier our Alien-In-Chief becomes. More pain means people are more suggestible to bigger, wilder and more radical changes. Those changes will move us even farther away from capitalism.

        Capitalism hasn’t failed. They’ve talked people into believing we’ve had capitalism and then they’ve made what we have fail and said, “Capitalism has failed!” What we have has failed, but, what we have is something that is far removed from capitalism. What we have is big government. Big government has been raping and screwing the people, got too crazy and fell out of the bed and now government claims it all happened because the floor was there! An ugly image, I know, but an apt comparison.

        Because of the way our government has been operating for approximately the last 100 years, moving more toward a socialist paradigm where government takes care of people instead of people taking care of themselves, it has attracted crooks, liars, con men and thieves. Thats all that is left. When we vote, we elect either a thief or a liar or a con-man. It is hopeless, politically.

        I believe this is REALLY what the problem is. The American People no longer believe their government can do anything right. It has taken us 100 year to realize it, but, we have and now we’re going to fix it. It will simply take a lot of rope to do it.

        Once the economy really hits the skids, we’ll need lots of rope.

      21. Comments…bye bye middle class.    here in detroit,  somebody bought 100 homes for $160,000.   bought  ’em  in a foreclosure pkg from the bank.    how sad.    well,  maybe  prez obama  can pay detroit a visit. . .when he gets back from his vacation on martha’s vinyard.

      22. On Jimmy Carter:

        He was probably the most moral guy that made it to the White House since Harry Truman accidently fell into the job.  I thought he did a lousy job dealing with the Iranian hostage crisis, BUT you have to consider he was a nuke sub commander, and probably knew a whole lot more about what could go wrong with beating the drums of war than the rest of us armchair quarterbacks……including the cowboy actor that followed him.

        But to blame ALL the economics of the late 70’s all on him is totally unfair.  The roots of that problem began in the 60’s when Johnson tried to fight two wars….one in Vietnam, and one on “poverty”…and as we see today, wars are damn expensive.  Then you throw in the oil problem of 73-74, and resulting jump in energy prices, and it would not have mattered WHO was in the White House in 76-80…they were captive of the events that preceded them.

        The best you can say about Carter is he did little to pile on the harm…..unfortunately for him, America wasn’t ready for the message “you probably CAN’T have it all”…..and that destroyed him.

        The problem with Obama today is partly he did inherit a huge pile of problems, not of his making.  Unfortunately, his solution is to make more problems….that government can be the solution to everything.

      23. Bruno, don’t waste your efforts here. The paranoid,racist folks here get off on the doom and gloom SHTF lifestyle. They did it during y2K, and they are doing it now. Let them rant on. Let them horde food,ammo,gold and silver. Let them buy land in the boonies. Let them buy guns, generators, seeds,concrete bunkers, miles of barbed wire,water filters, colloidal silver, gas masks, nightscopes, batteries, wind up flashlights and radios, etc. ITs great for the economy.
        The doom and gloom business supports many companies, authors, and televangelists. So let them be Bruno.

      24. POPEYE,you’re right that there has been plenty of doom & gloomer’s typing entries here,but some day soon,that which they are worried about will take place.
        It is economically impossible to maintain the current racket and some of us realize it.
        Go ahead,pretend that all is well and that all of the races will react the same under deprivation and want.
        Don’t bother buying any extra food or bother to hedge your risks by holding some gold,your government will take great care of you.

      25. I have to submit a rant here, so I will begin by apologizing for it ahead of time. But I can’t help myself.

        When are Americans going to wake up and realize that the vast majority of the country’s problems (mostly economic) are NOT the fault of the current Commander in Chief? I am sick and tired of people blaming Obama, Carter, Bush, whomever, for the conditions of the time. While I will admit I am not by any means defending any of these individuals by condoning their actions while in office, I will say that all were/are victims of over 100 years of American political, economic, and social convention.

        My favorite topic – recessions. Does Bush get blamed because he was President during the 2002-2003 recession, even though the Federal funds rate was hiked to a 10-year high back in late 2000 under President Clinton, beginning with several rate increases starting in 1994? Conversely, does Clinton get praise because he presided over the booming mid-late nineties, when the fed funds rate was decreased between 1989 and 1994? What am I trying to say? The economy of any given president is almost always directly proportional to interest rate levels 5-6 years prior, in other words, interest rates established during the PRIOR TERM. It never fails, we have recession, interest rates are eased, and by the time the next President comes to office the nation is in boom-times again. Then, when the money is too cheap and stock markets are too high, the Federal Reserve inevitably ratchets up and hikes interest rates, and some time later we have our recession. Always under someone else’s watch. And the guy who had nothing to do with it gets the blame.

        For this reason I am skeptical that the massive inflation that is yet to come will happen under Obama’s watch, but I submit it is possible, maybe by middle-end of 2011.

        Now, that being said, what does everyone expect Obama to do? Be a real man? Please. We all know he is controlled and told what to do. It doesn’t matter one bit what he “believes” in, he will do what they tell him. Remember what happened to the last man who stood up and tried to do what was right – Kennedy? Oh yeah, he was shot.

        I’m not advocating anyone to give up on the fight. I’m just saying we are wasting energy directing it toward useless bureaucrat-in-Chiefs who can’t deliver two lines to the public without reading a teleprompter.

      26. Comments…..  ok, Chris ……… I agree

      27. I’m sorry to say, but the dire economic situation in the USA has hit the main stream media overhere. So things could go very fast for you people now. For the moment your Plunge Protection Team does what it is supposed to do for the stock-exchange. But the trick that when everytime there is bad economic news in the USA the MSM in the USA attack Greece or whatever country here in Europe is becoming ridicolous. That worked a bit, but seriously… Better prepare yourself folks, the world is waking up.
        You, the people, are great but your leaders made the wrong decisions.

      28. We will have inflation and probably hyperinflation during this depression.  We haven’t see anything yet in term of how bad it is going to get.  Prepare for everything the best you can.  God bless all of us.

      29. @Nico   Tell “us” something we don’t know.   “I’m sorry” to say your preaching to the choir.  The Euro is even more of a promise/IOU.  It will happen your way first.  Let us know when it effects you.  Then we’ll know for sure!  Connect the dots, HELLO.  The people on this site don’t have a clue.  WE understand about Greece more than you will ever know.  What are you going to do?  Germany will go their own way.  “We” understand that your upset…….

      30. The Euro will be kaput within 2 years; Germany and the Northern Europeans might institute a new currency if the PIIGS  get hammered.  A new world currency based on a basket of gold oil and a food commodity (wheat,corn) will come into being.  The Chinese are already preparing for it.  Save your dollars for toilet paper.  Oh, and btw, there’s no gold in Fort Knox.

      31. The author of this piece and most of the commenters seem to have a better handle on what is going on than our so-called “leaders.”  I am rigging for very stormy weather.

      32. Popeye,

        In a perfect world, I would agree with you.  Don’t be foolish in your beliefs that completely  discount what is actually happening right under your nose.  We are in UNPRECEDENDED times in terms of total U.S. debt, fiscal deficit and a very bad housing crisis that will get worse each & every month.  Foreclosures are far from being done with the upcoming ARM loan re-sets.   Jobs are non-existent unless our US companies decide to bring back thier businesses to the US.  That is a very tall order… All I ask is that you connect the dots of reality, then things will not appear to be so rosie.

      33. @Tom… We will follow Germany… no doubts.

      34. Things will get worse until the free market understands that policy changes after Nov. 2, 2010 will return sanity to the House and Senate. Please read Paul Ryan’s roadmap (google it). Obama care, finance reform and other toxic programs will be stopped in 2011 and repealed in Jan. 2013 before they can do permanent damage. Having renewed faith in our future will mitigate the pain we must endure to clean up  the mess. Have faith and a stout heart.

      35. Yes, I think your right.  Germany is trying to hold the Euro together.  China just pumped some money in last week.  I believe Germany already has new currency ready to go “when”  things go South.  U.S. pumped a great deal of digits/paper into the Euro earlier also to keep the music playing.  They are passing out strait-jackets (not life jackets).
        The life boats have already been lowered & they’re not crowded.

      36. What research was Carter doing?  Give us the best example of something that would have saved us all and cut the national debt. 
        Do you REALLY think FDR was moral?  Is this the same guy who interred all the Japanese??

        The current commander in chief has increased the deficit 300%  He has also printed about 3 trillion in printing press money.  He gave most of this to his buddies who elected him.  I think we are talking high crimes and misdemeanors…

        Lets figure this thing out.. OK the dollar is soon to be toast..We all seem to agree on that.  Next it seems we all agree that the government has screwed us and itself up. We can blame donkeys or elephants all we want, but fundamentally, we need to look in the mirror. We LET THEM DO IT. So lets move on to a more productive discussion..
        First, we know we cannot trust any of the political hacks we have the phony choice of voting for, since they are all different sides of the same loaded dice. They run the government in the best interests of the top 2% who pay best. We the people are the suckers who still believe we have a voice or a choice about any of it. So lets do the wise thing..forget about politics, it is not really anything we control anymore and we should use our energy for important stuff.
        I propose that we  focus on letting these sociopaths screw up so bad that they loose control all by themselves.  I personally have embraced the dark side of economics…hyperinflation is good! I know it will ruin everybody and cause lots of suffering, I know the dollar will collapse..and its going to be real bad.  In the long run, it has to happen, so lets just say GOOD.  When this happens, the (God only know how many) trillions that my children and grandchildren are on the hook for is erased. Sure I will be wiped out, but I am spending what I have to ensure that they will survive the times that are quickly coming. My job is to ensure that my decendants survive and hopefully do well in the future.  In all of this mess, there will be a dramatic restructuring of banking, finance and government, and my children will benefit from it when it is done.
        I know the American character, and I know our basic beliefs. Whatever we end up with, if it is based on that, we should end up with a government of the people, by the people and FOR the people. (which will be a big improvement over what we have now)  
        At least my decendants will be broke instead of buried in debt slavery. As for the future of this country, I believe that it will play out something like this… 
        When the dollar is destroyed, we will quickly find ourselves too poor to import any more junk from china et el…
        It is then that we will turn within to make what we need. That means rebuilding American manufacturing and industry. That also means a productive economy, a raising standard of living and jobs for the people. This will occur within an environment of almost no regulation or enforcement of anything since our government (in whatever form it takes) will be too small and too broke to do much except keep the lights on in the White House. I suspect that the people then will demand that people be personally responsible again. They will not tolerate high taxes, regulation or any forms of wealth transfer from the working people to pay for those who dont.  We will of course have to cut out a lot of stuff that we cannot afford and really do not need though.. such as the American Empire we currently have (with troops stationed in almost every other country on Earth). We will have to sell a lot of our navy for scrap metal too..too expensive.. and we will have to accept that we are not the big kid on the block anymore.  Fortunately, we are quite safe from invasion (if we choose to do anything about our borders) and we will not be a target for terrorists or other nut cases when we scale back our committments and stop sticking our noses into the worlds business. Lets face it, we piss off a lot of people by playing policeman of the world.. Let them sort out their own problems, charity begins at home. Consider Canada for a minute.. They do not offend anybody. They do not get entangled in the problems of the world, they take care of their own people.. And nobody bothers them or even thinks about them much, they have no enemys…its as simple as that. In the future USA, we will be living in smaller houses, driving little cars and acting like we have some sense again since we will be cutting our oil use by about 50% since we will not be able to afford imported oil anymore.  Overall, it sounds like a nice place to live. I will not see it, but sometimes to be a patriot, you need to forget about your own needs, wishes and desires and focus on the future for your grandchildren. Hyperinflation is a critical link in this chain of events. The longer the government uses band-aids to hold their robbers roost together, the harder it will be for us to move on and start onto a sustainable future.  Lets embrace the dark side.. Lets cheer and tell our whores in Washington to bale out Everybody.. lets let them blow their wad (sorry, thats crude) and really make the inflation rate scream Zimbawie style… They will destroy themselves faster that way. If these thieves and sociopaths keep killing us at 10% a year, its just going to be longer and more painful till their end comes. If it happens faster, they do not get as much of a chance to take us with them into the hell they are creating.  A quick and complete collapse is essential for the future.

      38. Mickey the Pirate:   Mickey you have been drinking the kool aid. Thats exactly what the NWO/PTB bunch want you to think and do: believe its hopeless and do nothing.

        These are not the thoughts or acts of a patriot, So I don’t see how you can consider yourself one. Its not too late …. except for you. You have given up, so you may as roll over and play dead. but don’t push that shit on US. we’re not buying it.
        Real patriots will go kicking and screaming. We will fight to the last breath to ensure our children and grandchildren live in a world where personal liberty, personal responsibility, self determination, and all American freedoms are secure.

        In my America the bad guys will be indicted and punished. In my America there is hope where there is life. In my America there is courage where there is life. In my America the good guys will win because right makes might. In my America Divine Providence is actively seeking men and women of  virtue who are ready to engage the evil that has corrupted America and who stand ready to oppose it, firm in their faith and conviction, with truth and the Constitution as their weapons.

        Your attitude makes me want to puke. Maybe you should make those comments on facebook. You could probably find a bigger audience for that crap there.

      39. Gonewiththewind – “The administration and Fed is pumping borrowed and printing press money into the economy to prop it up until AFTER the election.  That is when TSHTF.”

        I totally agree that this administration is holding off (or setting up) this economy to fall after Nov so they can blame someone else.

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