If you think that our multi-billion dollar electrical power grids are secure and capable of withstanding a coordinated attack, think again.
According to one group of engineers, the grid is so vulnerable that it wouldn’t even require a skilled hacker to compromise. In fact, when Adam Crain and Chris Sistrunk decided to test some new software they were developing they identified a vulnerability so serious that it could literally blind operational controllers to such an extent that they would be locked out of monitoring systems and unable to maintain grid integrity.
The consequences, according to the engineers who note they are in no way security specialists, could be a total downing of the national power grid with nodes across the nation being taken over all at once. Moreover, the same systems used to maintain the U.S. power grid are also being used in other industries, like water treatment facilities.
You’d think that such a vulnerability would be a top priority for the Department of Homeland Security, considering they are spending millions of dollars and promoting their coming Grid Ex exercise in November.
But you’d be wrong. The kicker is that when Crain and Sistrunk advised the DHS Industrial Control Systems Cyber Emergency Response Team, they got what essentially amounts to no response. It took Homeland Security a full four months before they even acknowledged the problem.
The two engineers who discovered the vulnerability say little is being done.
Adam Crain and Chris Sistrunk do not specialize in security. The engineers say they hardly qualify as security researchers. But seven months ago, Mr. Crain wrote software to look for defects in an open-source software program.
The program targeted a very specific communications protocol called DNP3, which is predominantly used by electric and water companies, and plays a crucial role in so-called S.C.A.D.A. (supervisory control and data acquisition) systems. Utility companies use S.C.A.D.A. systems to monitor far-flung power stations from a control center, in part because it allows them to remotely diagnose problems rather than wait for a technician to physically drive out to a station and fix it.
Mr. Crain ran his security test on his open-source DNP3 program and didn’t find anything wrong. Frustrated, he tested a third-party vendor’s program to make sure his software was working. The first program he targeted belonged to Triangle MicroWorks, a Raleigh, North Carolina based company that sells source code to large vendors of S.C.A.D.A. systems.
It broke instantly.
“When Adam told me he broke Triangle, I worried everything else was broken,” said Mr. Sistrunk.
Over the course of one week last April, the two tested Mr. Crain’s software across 16 vendors’ systems. They did not find a single system they couldn’t break.
By the end of the week, the two had compiled a 20-page report replete with vulnerabilities in 16 different system vendors for the Department of Homeland Security’s Industrial Control Systems Cyber Emergency Response Team, I.C.S.-C.E.R.T., which notifies vendors of vulnerabilities and issues public advisories.
And then, they waited. It would take I.C.S.-C.E.R.T. another four months to issue a public advisory for Triangle MicroWorks’ system.
…D.H.S. did not return a request for comment.
Mr. Crain found that he could actually infiltrate a power station’s control center from afar. An attacker could use that capability to insert malware to take over the system, and like Stuxnet, the computer worm that took out 20 percent of Iran’s centrifuges, inflict actual physical harm.
“This is low-hanging fruit,” said Mr. Crain. “It doesn’t require some kind of hacker mastermind to understand the protocol and do this.”
What makes the vulnerabilities particularly troubling, experts say, is that traditional firewalls are ill-equipped to stop them. “When the master crashes it can no longer monitor or control any and all of the substations,” said Dale Peterson, a former N.S.A. employee who founded Digital Bond, a security firm that focuses on infrastructure.
“There is no way to stop this with a firewall and other perimeter security device today.”
When outgoing DHS head Janet Napolitano suggested that a cyber attack on the nation’s power grid is imminent, she meant it.
They know that these systems are vulnerable, and the steps needed to protect the grid from cyber attacks and other potential hazards like a Super EMP or a severe geo-magnetic event would cost in the multiple billions of dollars to fix.
The fact of the matter is that DHS and the vendors who produce these software control systems are dragging their feet, leaving the entire country vulnerable.
Crain and Sistrunk are not hackers or security experts. They are software engineers and they were able to compromise our entire national power grid and water utility systems from remote locations.
What do you think China, Russia, and rogue hackers are capable of doing?
If you don’t think they’ve mapped our entire grid and its vulnerabilities you are kidding yourself.
This is deadly serious.
And when we say deadly, we mean it, because according to a report from the Center for Security Policy presented to Congress in 2010, if our power grid were to be taken offline for an extended period of time, 9 out of 10 Americans would be dead within a year.
There would be no way to transport food because gas stations pumps would be inoperable. And even if they did work, the commerce systems which makes the exchange of goods possible would be offline. Couple that with water utilities not functioning due to lack of electricity, and we’re talking about a worst-case scenario so bad that this country may never recover.
Former Congressman Roscoe Bartlet has urged those who can to move out of major cities for this reason.
You have been warned: you need to be ready for total grid failure.
The threat is real.
The American Society of Civil Engineers recently published a review of our national energy infrastructure, which includes oil and gas production/distribution as well as the electric grids. It received a D rating.
“Our world-class economy and modern society cannot be sustained with our current infrastructure.”
“infrastructure in poor to fair condition and mostly below standard, with many elements approaching the end of their service life. A large portion of the system exhibits significant deterioration. Condition and capacity are of significant concern with a strong risk of failure.”
“The power grid has morphed in size tenfold during the past 50 years. While solar flares, cyber attacks, and an EMP are perhaps the most extensive and frightening threats to the electrical system, the infrastructure could just as easily fail in large portions due to weather-related events. The power grid is basically a ticking time bomb which will spawn civil unrest, lack of food, clean water, and a multitude of fires if it does go down.”
Built in obsolescence and guaranteed failure. What is coming has been planned and provided for with full intention and premeditation. Ensure that all the “addicts” are 100% “hooked/reliant”, then eliminate the supply.
Hey citizen, we got the “juice” over here. Just get on the train and you’ll get your “fix”. You won’t be needing those nasty firearms where WE are taking you!
Coincidence. It doesn’t exist. Especially not in “this world”.
Winter is coming. We were told to pray our flight is not in the winter and I don’t think enough are praying that it is not. A perfect way to kill a lot of people with no weapons or troops would be grid failure in the middle of winter. Jesus is the only way.
Pray it is winter. Let nature take care of the roaming zombie hoards. There will be less to deal with yourself come spring time. And if you are in an area with snow pack then you will have a natural barrier preventing people’s easy access to your property.
That should prove beyond a doubt that the DHS
and their brethren agencies were only created
for the suffocation of the American people and
had nothing to do with our security whatsoever.
I think everyone assumed that “homeland” meant OUR home land. It doesn’t. It means the home of the elite. They think this country, hell, this whole world belongs to them and we’re not welcome.
I think, since the elite want to move out into the stars, that we should accommodate them. We should give them all a one-way ride, on a rocket bound for anywhere other than here…
Having worked in government and military facilities as a contractor I am now sure an emp will not affect them as bad as a solar flare would. Most places are now protected with grounding and their data centers are fully caged in and grounded.
In fact, the military will be nearly 100% operational if it is an emp.
I always thought the gov was too inept to fully implement martial law but if the country had lost the grid for 6 weeks before the military moved in that would be a different story. They would easily ascertain full control and many people would easily welcome it and turn others in who resisted.
That is the only way martial law will be successful. There is just too many patriots with guns who unless softened in a grid down scenario would put up too much resistance with many others joining as well.
Wolf you are assuming way too much! most people i know have made it thru without power for up to 2 weeks without a problem. The problem is the cities as they are very vulnerable without power, groceries, water, the list can go on and on. in the so called rural parts you have a real problem convincing people that the government is here to help as we all have seen this government in action! they couldnt find their asses with both hands! most of the so called hicks are just self sufficient people that can handle more than you would or could ever believe! so the only take over by martial law will only happen in the cities. cause after the gang- bangers and other nefarious people get to having fun, this government will have more than have its hands full. also just remember if the power grid goes down the refineries cease to operate, there fore the government is gonna run out of fuel to pull off a major operation if at all! without the refineries running and the trucks to move it, this whole idea of martial law just falls straight on its face. I may only have enough fuel for 90 days but if you try and find me to take it, you just wasted half of your fuel if you dont succeed in the project. not only that i can slim down operations to make fuel last longer( move cattle from high feed programs to strictly grass, and hay production can be slimmed down also. But when the government tries to ramp up jetfuel production they might have a problem as it a by- product of heavy grease production that produces kerosene, gasoline, diesel fuel. if you study cracking fuels this all explained very well in the program. Jet fuel is basicly kero with a lot of additives. plus pretty much of the refineries tanks are full with the most used fuels, not jet fuel. Time for that 3 fingers of single malt and a a biggg fattie wilman out
Civilization has survived for 10’s of Centuries without electricity. Unfortunately today’s Pluged in Polulace goes ape nuts, if they get their phone calls dropped or their drive thru fast food served later than 5 minutes. And many others, including preppers claim they have nothing to worry about because they prepared. Well only about 1 of 10 people has prepared and know how to survive and thrive, and the very few know how to thrive long term for years, with acquiring food, drinkable water and the ability to create fire. The big worry is the rest of the unprepared populace that will instantly create chaos, riot and loot their way to survival. It may be very wise to bury cashes of food in secured bins in multiple places for you to randomly retrieve your food for the first year. Everything will be fair game for the strong willed and well armed. Just look at nature and Detroit, as abandoned dogs learned to stick together in packs and as people will in organized gangs to be more productive in acquiring the assets for their survival. A true Power Grid Down situation may be for weeks or years, as many of these main power transformers that are taken down in a cascading fashion will take years to replace them as the lead time to manufacture these is sometimes a year or more. They just don;t keeps these stocked on the shelves. Then the entire electric grid is looted while down for copper and other valuable metals. I see nothing but ungliness coming and the worst of humanity quickly surface. Bottom line, we are all on our own. Plan on NO Internet, cellphones, gasoline, heating fuel, food, water, transportation,etc. What you own today and can carry on your back, will be the start of your long term survival.
TPTB probably see this as a positive. Now they actually do have shovel ready jobs for the newly created undocumented citizens coming around the corner.
TPTB have no love for the “undocumented immigrants”. The illegals are just a tool used to strangle the rest of us. They will be fed to the beast just like the SNAP crowd, and none of them will believe their messiah has turned on them, even while being herded onto FEMA busses.
The news and people’s responses are sooo extremely depressing. I don’t know what is worse, the people who think something colossal will happen or the people who think nothing will happen and even encourage the fear by the way they report the news.
I don’t know what will happen or won’t but I have decided I simply can’t listen to all the doomsday predictions. Read the Bible, it’s going to happen someday and not one person knows the hour. In the meantime LIVE instead of preparing to die, or preparing to fight death. Here today and gone tomorrow. It’s the way life is. You could walk to your mail box and hit your head on the curb and there you go. So all the preparations in the world won’t help if it is your time. We all have a day on the calender.
I appreciate that people warn people about potential disasters but this gets so deep and so thick that it hurts my head! If there is a storm threat, or some event that is taking place, then we’ll talk. Look at Fukushima, do you think they sat around all the hours of their day deciding how they will prep in case something you never expect happens. It wouldn’t have helped them one iota had they been prepped with all the food and goods piled to the sky, it would have been worthless hours and time spent as the goods were ruined from the fallout devastation even had it survived.
There is an article called “The Ocean is Broken”. Google it. Sad state of affairs in our world but don’t worry, find joy in what you can while you can and know that God is near. That is if you believe in God, if you don’t, then carry on but don’t say I didn’t warn you!
Besides, think of all the jobs it could generate. ha!
Well Lucy, judging by all the red thumbers it looks like you’ve shat on somebody’s doomsday cake!
I hope the multitude of liberal, progressive, commie shitbags have the same ideas you have LucySky. This will greatly reduce the pressure to continue feeding the useless eaters and clean out the gene pool. Something this country has needed for a very long time.
Oh there is a lot of things worst than death like what could happen to your loved one right before your eyes from a gang of wacked out thugs, to each his own.
LucySky–this story just portrays one aspect of how our food supply is being destroyed for greed.
Sad is an understatement.
Another day, another dollar to be made.
The generator is ready if we need it for the short term, after that???
Guess I need to get serious about the solar ability.
Y’all play nice. 🙂
Expect to live without electricity. We don’t have solar power because none of our neighbors do. We have 200 AA batteries for flashlights and to charge our Kindle and iPads. After that we won’t have power of any kind anymore.
Just buy a solar charger. You can also buy hand cranked flashlights.
Leslie Anne & Barn Cat.
Try the d.light stuff. I bought them at nitro-pak and they do work pretty good. A prepper on here recommended them, so I bought 2- dlight300 and 2 dlight S2. They are solar charged lights and so far, so good.
I plan on buying a few more.
(yes made in China, but says designed in USA)….
Not sure I understand what the neighbors lack of solar has to do with you not having it or a backup…I mean do the neighbors all have guns/food/metals ect like you do?…or do you not because the neighbors don’t…seems like a recipe for trouble…just asking….
He doesn’t want to be THE ONE with power…
And that reason would prove the point of the question….not wanting to be the only one with power then should also apply to not being the only one with food or weapons or heat or you name it…why would it apply only to power?…if power cant be defended then food and other things cant be either…heck in a SHTF situation being the olny guy with a warm coat could be enough to cause trouble…that’s my point…not attacking BC, just questioning the logic/approach to that issue…we are all going to have something that someone else doesn’t and for which some moron somewhere would happily kill us for…
Mac getting nr01 error messages?
Mac also the article keeps timing out whilst I type a comment…never had that before.
Maybe they live in a community with an HOA and they will not allow it?
if no power no cell towers, hum? get a hand crank radio that uses rechargeable aa batteries, for raido,stations,if any, for light, some radios have solar panels if batteries are dead.
buy candels,,,oil lamps,get wood and a cheap fireplace box
Catena, on radios, I have 2 Grundig portable shortwave radios with single-sideband [SSB] capability and a ton of spare AA batteries for them. Most likely, our only sources for information will be international stations once the internet is lost. AM and FM radio stations in the US supposedly have backup generators and I’m sure their fuel supplies are limited. We might have some of those stations on the air for some time, but I’m not counting on that. Radio shack carries some decent SW portables for under $150. Or you can go to http://www.universal-radio.com for a much larger selection and the prices will vary. When you get a portable SW, be sure to stockpile extra batteries; a lot of models generally use AA. You’ll also need to run an external antenna. I use a 50-ft. long wire antenna of medium gauge with alligator clips attached to each end. one end is connected to the rod antenna on the radio and the other end to a tree right outside my backdoor. You get a stronger signal and better reception that way. I’ve tried the rechargeable AAs and wasn’t too impressed with them, but that’s just me. Shortwave could well be the only source for information on what’s going on in any post-grid down situation.
Great point braveheart. I have a Grundig SW myself.
Now, what was that about Urban saying you never
offer a solution to anything?
Would you like a little salt and pepper with
that crow, Mr. Urban?
My husband and I are enrolled in a review session for the Technician Class Ham Radio License for exactly the internet-down scenario you suggest. I won’t wait for him to get the General License before acquiring a SW radio. We can listen and become familiar with it until it is legal to talk. Have to look into antennas, too. This is a whole new area for us, but it looks to be potentially very valuable and definitely worth our time. Thank you for your suggestions.
You can do a lot with just a couple of 230w solar panels and a small battery bank. You can run a citizen band or short wave radio. If you have a land line and an internet connection you can take a peek and see if any servers/sites are up.
Anybody using a Generator to power their home or refrigerator will be like a loud siren, Come and get me and my fidge of food. You will surely have plenty of hords coming after you. If you run a loud noisey Generator you are soon doomed. Learn to live in silence with little footprint. Think about it!!
Very scary! Seems gov asleep at the switch again. This and EMP are my worst worries. Just read one second after and prepare accordingly! God Bless, James
James, I’ve read “One Second After” and that was one tough book to get through. The saddest part was when the guy’s diabetic daughter died. That type of scenario WILL become real one day. I am preparing accordingly.
THANKS FOR THE SPOILER!
i kno wat a dick..lol
me–read the book–pass it to loved ones–tell them to pass it to their loved ones.
My husband read it in 3 days and said anyone reading it and not preparing with food and other supplies was past stupid!!
I read One Second After about 3 yrs ago…gave the book to my older sister, hoping to wake her up…it didn’t……bought another book last week…and now my 23 yr old son is reading it, then my husband said he wants to read it!
If that book doesn’t wake you up…NOTHING will!!
Oh, and my sister? Her and her hubby moved into a “retirement” community down in Florida, they’re driving a golf cart and playing gin rummy at the clubhouse on Friday nights!! And they’re only in they’re 50’s!!! Those people in retirement communities in Fl. are sitting ducks when the SHTF!!
@Lady, I met Bill Forschen about a year ago and he signed my book! Had one on one with him and he advised this is what Iran and North Korea are working toward. Scared the heck out of him too! God Bless, James
You’re damn right they are. Wouldn’t believe the crimes that take place in the lower scale ones. It’s really sad. And to mention the “change” we’ve been delivered unto, the b on w crime is just getting started. The thugs just grow bolder by the day as they target the more upscale residences.
Standing ready in Daytona
But we all know where to get large 6 volt batteries now, don’t we.
read Rawles “Survivor” series
those cheering on collapse, might think twice about what they wish for, after reading these.
“those cheering on collapse,”
that wasn’t directed to anyone here.
James, a pandemic will have a similar effect, possibly worse as it will be non selective it who it takes down. You can bet in the event of a grid down caused by EMP of system failure TPTB will be well looked after and the rest of us will be left to fend for ourselves. A pandemic will level the playing field somewhat but it will still wind up in a scenario like that detailed in “One Second After”. Solar is good and I have quite a bit but batteries have a “service life” too …….. Fuel for generators, even stabilized, also has a limited lifespan. Maybe a ethanol still?
Very good read, it really got me prepping full time, moved out to the country and are now off grid.
Mac, I worked in a hospital during Katrina and saw first hand what happens when the electricity is no longer running. The elevators quit working and we had patients all the way up on the 12th floor. The water quit running and so it became impossible to flush the toilets or even wash your hands let alone do other things like hemodialysis. The laboratory quit working so there was no way to monitor critically important chemistries, CBCs, culture and sensitivities. From an Ivory Tower top of the line modern medical facility we quickly reverted to triage and battlefield medicine. A third world jungle hospital may have been better off than we were. Our communication lines were cut and so there was no way to check on patients in another part of the hospital without walking directly to that floor. The protection of the electrical grid is a must if modern society is to survive. The corollary is that modern society here in America will be quickly snuffed out without electricity.
Which is something else I noticed with medical personnel. They aren’t trained to work seat-of-the-pants. Without the “right equipment” most become completely useless and are more of a liability than an asset. And never mind the “specialists” who think they are above doing grunt medicine.
As a preparedness measure, hospitals ought to train their personnel with military medical staff, at least in tactical casualty care and field surgery work, or at least in McGyvver’ing their way around with minimal “proper” gear.
Our local ER used to have a head triage RN who had run a 300 bed field hospital in Bagram. She outranked the MDs in the military chain of command and she also was far and away their superior as a field clinician. She was the biggest asset to our ER anyone could imagine. She’s who you wanted on duty if you or a loved one came in with trauma. Also one tough lady who never backed down, made accurate decisions on the fly, worked til the job was done right and was rarely wrong.
Military field RNs should be the ones setting up the training programs here in the States.
They are talking about the U.S. power grid, but are the grids in other countries also at risk?
No doubt about it Yohan, we here are just as complacent with a “she’ll be right!” attitude.
Dunno about the UK or Euro countries but I bet they, the Ruskies, India and China are on the ragged edge too.
Red China has for the last few years, been seriously upgrading and even hardening their grid. Also, they’ve only been installing fiberoptic lines for comms for the past 2-3 years at least. No copper at all. It’s almost as if they know something,,, Take care all!
Standing ready in Daytona
Unless things have changed greatly in the last 12-13 years, Russia’s in no better shape infrastructure-wise, but Russians are better emotionally and physically equipped to deal with it in their cities than are US urbanites.
In 1998 on the coldest night of the year the hot water and radiators for our section of Moscow went out (it comes from a central location to every dwelling in that area). Thank God I had a room-mate with an electric oil heater! In such times you don’t panic or scramble, you just do what you need to do and get on with it.
Many of the worlds electric grids, infrastructure and transportation systems are crumbling. When you spend all your money on surveillance, cameras, spying, and covert ops, there isn’t much left for those ‘non-important things’. We’ll fix it tomorrow, yada yada.
Speaking of other countries, India, the UK and even a lot of Russia are feeling the pain. It’s all by design.
We are a throw-away species, apparently.
As I had posted before.
‘In The Beginning, God Created The End!’
Genesis and Revelation are only sentences apart.
USA is in denial and in a future pipe-dream. We are not creating more energy than we consume as many doofus dems claim.
I guess we need to live by one of those ‘Made in China’ windmills (no offense to China)? The Dutch were not stupid.
The American Stone Age is coming soon.
Uh-huh, I think we got this by now. Yes the electric goes off, the water stops running and the shitter overflows. For goodness sake, how long must we beat this dead horse. The power will go out, if you don’t get that then shame on you. This is getting a little old.
The great Chicago fire supposedly started in a barn when a cow kicked over a lantern and the hay caught. This shit happens by chance everyday and that’s why we prep. That’s all………..
…and the “GREAT AMERICAN INFERNO” is Oburros sequel to that Chicago cow fire…only he’s the jackass that kicked the torch of liberty into the tinder….only thing is what he intends for evil will grow into a inferno that will consume his jackass… 😉
Hey POP; I respect your right to comment, but it looks like you need to go to greener sites.
Oh, I gots the feelin’ I’ll be around long after you’re gone Scooter.
And why aremy posts always “waiting moderation”?
Yohan, utilize an email address when submitting a comment (even if it is fake, but use the same one each time). Once we have approved a few comments the system will automatically “recognize you” going forward.
Unless your post contains a link in which case moderation takes f o r e v e r r r r r.
OK thanks Mac
Use a e-mail and less moderation,hmmmm…didn’t know that,but then hell,perhaps my posts need a good “once over look” before being put up!
How can I sign up on the website or is there no membership
This is something to really get into your spirt to mull over a thousand times. This is one of the worst things that ever could happen. Will it really occur? Can it really happen? Has this massive blackout been told in Bible Prophesy. Will God let this happen? This is NO JOKE!
I’m sure it’s not talked about the Bible. America isn’t mentioned in the Bible.
Yes, I expect all power to go down in the US. If not from power grid failure then from hyperinflation and people not being able to pay their $10,000 electric bills.
A large scale, long term electrical failure is a death sentence for about 3/4 of this country….and honestly, I think it is merely a matter of time before EMP, CME, or a hacker takes it out. I’ve built our solar output up from 2.1kw to 11kw over the last 5 years, but the problem, of course, will be defending even having a system. Still, rather have it that not have it.
Things you can do and not be dependent on electrical power ( which we did before ever putting up the first solar panel ) are:
1. Alternative means of lighting. Oil lamps ( and plenty of oil or kerosene ), flashlights and rechargeable batteries ( buy yourself a couple of small solar powered re-chargers), candles, etc.
2. Stock up on “strike anywhere” matches. Harder to find now days, and the white tip is way too small ( thank our drug making folks ), but find them.
3. Buy a camping stove ( I like propane best ) and stock plenty of fuel for it. Consider a “base camp” propane stove ( fairly cheap from Norther Tool kinda places ). Great for pressure canning out in the garage or back porch.
4. If you don’t have the knowledge, a canner, jars, lids, etc, GET IT NOW….I MEAN TODAY. Buy veggies and meat on sale and practice putting up food right now….while you still have grocery stores to back you up on mistakes. Learning things like dehydrating with the sun is great….but doesn’t work worth a flip a lot of place for about 3-4 months. Canning you can do anytime.
If you plan to hunt, plan to can. Killed a 140lb buck while back, boning it out WELL yeilds about 35-40lbs of usable meat, and makes 50 pint jars ( including some broth off cooking the bones ), and a 2 gallon bag of bones for the dogs.
That’s IT. Not much, huh?
5. Wood heating. If you live in an area that gets cold, you need a wood stove, plain and simple. Best if you get one with a cooking surface as well ( versus a flush fireplace insert ), so it can do double duty. Stock up on wood. We keep 2 years cut ahead. I’m cutting wood today for 3 winters from now.
Get busy people. One day you’re gonna flip that light switch up and NOTHING is going to happen. It’s too late then.
I think it’s a death sentence for 90% or more of the US population. You won’t be able to buy groceries or gasoline. The whole banking system will go down. Goods will no longer be transported across the country. Unless you’ve stockpiled food and/or are growing your own food in an area where the zombies won’t take it all then you’re as good as dead.
Barn Cat, spot on. In the EMP Commission report, it said 90% of the population would be dead 1 year after an EMP event. That should’ve been shortened to more like 3 months and maybe even that time frame is a bit generous. The first to die would be people in aircraft. At any given time, their are tens of thousands of people in commercial and military aircraft all over the skies of the US. When those electronics are fried, the people on those aircraft are history. The 2nd group will be people on any kind of life support. I would estimate at least a million dead in the first week of any grid-down scenario. Then riots, disease, and anything else that could come along will start finishing off the rest. it will be so horrific.
Sad thing is, it doesn’t have to go down this way. If our citizens had a little morality and decency, we could muddle our way thru bad times and get back to business rebuilding in short order. Unfortunately, we have all seen what our fellow man does in these situations. Our young people will stand around videotaping women getting rapped and murdered so they can be the first to post on Youtube. Then they will realize there is no Youtube. “Oh, shit. What now?”
GTL – The most significant word of your post is “If”. Too bad it will never happen. Morals, ethics, responsibility…hard to come by these days. Very sad.
Most on here are forgetting that if an EMP or solar flare takes out the grid and all things electronic, the northern hemisphere will be uninhabitable. With almost 200 nuclear power plants(USA) melting down and no means to cool those rods whoever is prepared will only die of radiation anyway! There will be no way to escape it unless you have a bunker and stay there for a long time, and when you do come up for air welcome to the dead planet earth! Grid down = ELE- extinction level event! This is the event I fear the most!
@ Anon.. Too bad you havent studied up on how a Nuke Power Plant and grid operates, otherwise you wouldnt have posted such a 100% untrue (assinine fear porn) statement. Example: Your scenerio is like saying that the coleman generator is going to blow up because there are no appliances plugged into it. If the coleman generator started to get hot, plug in a fan to it and point the fan at it to cool it.
@gone under–i work at a nuclear plant most of my life until retirement and we talked about this senario many times which ended with the same result-meltdown, that was ten years ago, did they change the way they operate? let me know ,give me some links to check out, it would make me feel better since i live about 5 miles from one.- no working generator, no water pumps to cool the rods, not being a smart ass, just want to seek more info.
Having a well with the ability to pump water off the grid (manual pump or solar powered) is important too.
I just added a hand pump to my moms system,was easy as a shallow well so a basic pitcher pump with shut off in well pit a easy do,have a bunch of extra leathers for it.
Look up Handy Pump…for less than $200 you can throw water out from the ground a whole lot easier than a hand pump. I love mine!
Gone,did check those out,but was able to do whole setup for about 60 with a few pipes/pump/fittings ect.That is though a cool system and worth a look for some folks.Again,this article has proven it’s worth in the sharing of knowledge among posters.
by all means get food at your dollar general,i have 3 + years and water.
trying to find the blue plastic 50 gallons barells are not available, so i bought 2 plastic garbage pails, shoe-glue the lid on have a hole to fill with water…BUT use 2, one inside the other, more streinght, 1/2 cup of clorox.
yeah, 20 bucks and 3 bucks for shoe-goo
don’t forget to drain the water from your hot water tank,,there’s 50 gallons right there!
If dehydrating using the sun, and you have mason jars to store the foods in, you might want to get a brake bleeder from Harbor Freight to seal the lids(using your jar sealer attachment of course).
We’ll have plenty of light and energy.
When you see the mushroom cloud, then darkness turns into light and you’ll have plenty of energy to cook with.
Neither China nor Russia would actually knock down all of our grid. The economic consequences for them would be too great. They would use it as a threat, to keep us from, say, defending Taiwan. They might even do a “demonstration”, but they would not kill the whole grid.
The thing I would fear is that any one of these Earth Firster types would do it in a flash if they knew how. And it would only take one. ‘Course they’d be among the first to starve, too, but that would be a feature, not a bug. I actually knew a guy (an attorney, too) who said that if he knew the population of the Earth were to be reduced by 90%, he would volunteer to go. And he hadn’t been drinking or smoking dope, either. Not on that day anyway….
Ditto the Islamofascists. They prefer a 9th century technology anyway. It’s in their Book.
I won’t post the details, but a few dozen dedicated individuals, properly coordinated and using low-tech methods, could do it too. It doesn’t need a hacker. And it wouldn’t even be a suicide mission.
We’re the enemy to Russia and China. With the US gone they’ll be free to do whatever they want around the world without interference. If they shut down our power grid they’ll destroy us without firing a shot. Why WOULDN’T they do it???
China could use the land and water. An EMP is the most efficient way to clear the USA population off the land. Then they just wait a year for the 90% die-off and then start moving in by the 100’s of millions.
The reason why they wouldn’t perhaps do it is we have nuclear subs worldwide that could smoke both Russia and China,leave a cloud cover that would wipe out most of humanity.I am not saying this is a good thing but a reality any who attempt to emp/hack our power systems face.
Okay, switch it up…we get hit with another Carrington Event. The Chinese then take advantage of the situation by patiently waiting it out for most of the USA people to die-off. There comes a point the subs/ships run out of provisions and aren’t able to continue being in service.
Get real! And during this massive invasion The NAVY is doing what? None of the subs etc worry about this at all. The survivability of the Nuc forces is not dependent on the net. They presume the end of the power net and Massive EMP from the Get go.
Okay, switch it up…we get hit with another Carrington Event. The Chinese then take advantage of the situation by patiently waiting it out for most of the USA people to die-off. There comes a point the subs/ships run out of provisions and aren’t able to continue being in service.
You want to know the Chinese plans then read this:
Another good one is Unrestricted Warfare. You can read that book online for free.
Mac, you should do an article regarding comrade chi haotian speech!
Thanks for the link Wolf!
I understand your thinking about China. China is looking for land (especially farmland and areas with mineral deposits) and water. China has been buying these up in many places in the U.S and around the world.
It would be the easiest way to achieve that goal. An EMP would be an efficient method of depopulating the country and would not put toxins into the land and water, like a nuke.
Also, due to years of enforced birth control, China has a large population of young men with inadequate numbers of young women to provide mates.
What country has adopted the most Chinese, Korean, etc. girls?
Yes! Sounds like you too have read a well-known novel in which that Is the motivation for an EMP attack. I’m also concerned that this scenario is a very likely one. It is well-known how polluted and crowded China is, and how degraded many of their natural resources are, so the open spaces and resources we still have here in North America must seem a huge temptation.
C’mon, think it through. The largest market for Chinese goods is the EU. The second largest, (and not my much) is the USA. They need the markets!
Next, while the USA has the largest contiguous area of farmland in the world, and blessed at that with a water transportation system second to none, (i.e. the Mississippi drainage), getting the produce from Nawlins to China is a long and winding road. Their path of least resistance is dominating southeast Asia, which opens the door to India via the Burma Road. Second in line is through Afghanistan and down to the Med and the Indian Ocean, whereby they can access the mineral resources of Africa. This should tell you something about the power behind our trials in central Asia.
The USA will be last on their list, unless we try too vigorously to stop them. Even then they will think twice before giving up their markets. Their policy toward the USA will be to poison our politics, and use commercial muscle, to keep us from interfering with their expansionist plans. Which, by the way, with the exception of the Afghanistan/Africa moves, mimic what the Japanese did in the 1930s.
All china needs to do is carefully appreciate the value of their currency. From then on they could just manufacture and sell all the goods to themselves. They have 1.3 billion people or potential consumers. That’s double the us and eu markets.
What do you think all those ghost cities are for?…
Massive social mobility. ..
On Obamacare, since the repubs kissed some ass.
‘Will you still need me, will you still feed me when I’m 64’….(McCartney)
One day the lights will go out, and our history, good and bad, will all start to slide away. JFK, 9/11, Military Ind. Complex, people in the future won.t believe it ever happened !!! Where is Crackpuff$ CoccoHead, anyway ???? He/she was the smartest poster this sight ever had !!!!!!!
LOL…I knew you were still around 😉
Mac, I was there when Katrina hit and took down the power grid supplying a large part of southeastern Louisiana for weeks and in some places for months. It was a real eye-opener as to how dependent we were on the electrical grid. It is easy to see how countless millions would suffer and die without electricity. I worked in a modern ivory tower hospital that was suppose to provide care in the event of just such an emergency. Without electricity, we became a triage unit with no way to perform the procedures and provide the care that is a marvel of modern medicine. We had to resort to basic skills for both diagnosis and treatment in the care of the patient. The situation was quite desperate when the National Guard finally broke through all the snafu and helped evacuate the patients. The goal is for this never to happen again and to have back up sources of electricity and power but how quickly we forget how vulnerable we are. We experienced first hand all of the things that you mention in your article. In our case, we were eventually able move to locations with electricity but at a tremendous cost. I cannot imagine what it would be like if something like that happened on a national scale. America, wake up! Katrina was my wake up call and I have been preaching the importance of being more prepared. I appreciate what you and everyone else at this site are doing to spread the word. Unimaginably hard times are coming and we must prepare.
OK, we all know that SOMEDAY the grid is going to fail. We most likely don’t know how it will happen until after the fact. We know there are several different ways to accomplish it. Regardless of how it happens, “One Second After” and “Lights Out” WILL become reality. In the last article, I told urban dog in my response to his stupidity I won’t make any more predictions about when something will happen. None of us really knows when it will take place, so we should we all should still prep like crazy. Although the Grid Ex drill on Nov. 13-14 is cause for concern, no one knows IF that will be “D-Day” for life without electricity. My prepping will continue all the way until SOMETHING happens, whenever that will be. For lighting, I’m stocking up like crazy on candles and matches. For cooking, I have a Coleman camp stove and extra propane. I also have a Kelly Kettle [base camp model] which can use leaves and twigs [natural fuel] and will boil water in only a few minutes. I have some LED lights, radios, spare batteries, and some other electronics stored in a metal trash can [$20 from Home Depot] lined with bubble wrap as a homemade faraday cage to protect from EMP. Still adding to my storable food and water supplies, plus ammo and gun cleaning supplies, etc. With winter coming, insulated boots with Thinsulate are a lifesaver. Will keep your feet warm and dry. Stocl up on extra heavy-duty clothing, thermal socks, long handles, blankets, sleeping bags, etc. Farmers’ Almanac says this winter will be rough and they’re usually right on target. These are the kind of times that try everyone’s souls. braveheart
As far as living without refrigeration goes, the four letter word is SALT, for preservation of meat. This was as important a commodity in olden times as oil is to us today. Wars were fought over it.
Am trying to find a reference to salt meat if grid goes down in the summer
Have much beef pork lamb and chicken in freezer
Can you help me?
Better to can it than salt it, easiest is to make stews and soups and pressure can.
Salting isnt as easy as it sounds, lots of variables and then you dont really have a ready to use product like home canned meats.
Kula when i shot ol pecker head the bull. i canned 300 lbs of meat, the last batch we ate had lasted 3 yrs no problem. now with ol pecker head all canned up we be ready!!!!! i would think we got somewheres north of 2500 lbs of food all canned ready to eat! AHHH them blackberries i froze this summer are great in this pie wildman out
True, but canning requires a lot of fuel, pressure cookers that work, and jar seals that really seal. Good quality rubber is required for both, and once that’s unavailable the canning technology will be kaput.
What you DO need to reconstitute salted meat is vast amounts of fresh water, though.
Jar lids keep a LONG time. We’ve used them 10 years old with no problem. The key is stock up NOW. Cheapest place I’ve found to buy them in quantity is Goodmans.net
and we should all have a big bag or two in our preps.
Stock up regular and iodized salt, sea salt if you can get it. Smoked salt is a great finisher and gives variety as does merlot salt. The Native Americans used coltsfoot ash as a seasoning as well, you might like to look into that.
Article is useless. It doesnt have any good prepping info. On the other hand… TnAndy has a usefull reply to get a good pool of ideas and comments going such as: what kind of oils will actually burn in a kerosene lantern without producing toxic fumes if kerosene is not available? how did you build your still and do you burn the alcohol for light or fuel? Ugly has mentioned wind generators. Has anyone made one from a old car generator or altenator? which one would be better? Do you have enough wind in your area to produce electricity? (I dont) Solar panels are great for off grid living.24 and 48 volt systems are the best for whole house systems whith large Battery banks. But a small system might be better with 12v because of all the car batteries available after a catastrophy. You wouldnt have to “match” up the batteries and wire them parallel and series, just clip on until dead. Of course the 12v car batteries wouldnt last long as they are desinged for a large amp draw for a short period and recharged back up before being drawn down to about 75%-80%. Golf cart batteries are great as they are designed for a large draw down and can be wired in sries for different voltages. Large systems alot of times run forklift batteries or single 2v cells. Along time ago I had 2v cells and a forklift 24v bank. One of the forklift cells went bad and I was down to almost 23v (old, tired batt. norm is about 2.2v per cell about 26+ on a healthey bank). So I cut out the bad cell, drove to Oakland Ca and picked up a good used one from a industrial battery shop. Then I opened all the vent caps, completely topped off the electrolite, disconnected the power (no shit) and ran a soft stream of argon from my welding bottle regulator over the top of the area I had to re solder (lead) the connections with a Map gas torch. If I was desperate enough to do it again, I would drill and bolt the tie bar on. So, even though everyone recommends batteries larger than the T-105 golf cart batteries, they are lots available and will be fairly easy to get in a SHTF situation.
I don’t think that article was written to provide prepping tips. It was written to make the public aware of vulnerability of our grids (there are actually several, not just one). Read the comments for prepping info.
If I need a large battery in a SHTF situation, I’m gonna hijack the first Nissan Leaf I can find.
Not familiar with the Leaf, but if it’s anything like the Honda Prius, it won’t do you a bit of good. The Honda runs off a bank of D cell sized flashlite batteries ! It depends on quick and fairly constant recharging from the gas engine or re-generative braking. The amp/hr rating on the bank is very small.
Thank Gone Under for your comment. While the article may be useless to you, the point was to highlight grid vulnerabilities.
There are a couple links within the article that do provide specific prepping tips.
You can follow these links for more specific prepping information:
52 Weeks to Preparedness: http://readynutrition.com/resources/52-weeks-to-preparedness-an-introduction_19072011/
Why You need to be ready for total grid failure:
Mac, the article is very useful in pointing out the vulnerabilities of the grid. You always bring us great articles. I never have any problem going to other links for prepping info if necessary and often I can still get good prepping info here. SHTFPlan.com still rocks regardless. braveheart
Thanks BH — The intention here was exactly that, to point out the vulnerabilities. There are plenty of excellent resources on hundreds of different sub-topics related to grid-down scenarios. Can’t fit them all into one article 🙂
Mac, you’re welcome, and I realize there’s no way to fit the resources into one article. that would take a book, but would be an interesting book nonetheless. braveheart
Hey,your site has provided many with prep ideas in articles and from posters and links.Though it has been mentioned many times a grid down scenario needs to be in peoples minds as a motivation to prep.As I said,the little ebt bullshit scare got a family member to stock up 6 months of food in 2 days and bought for lack of better word a intruder eliminator,is a good start for them and as I love that family member sleep a little easier.The article has a lot of purpose on this site.
The article isn’t useless. It is like the old story about the Pessimist and the Optimist.
Days of Old, a Father had two sons–one a Pessimist, and the other an Optimist.
Now, the Pessimist saw bad and danger in everything. He was worried. Afraid to make changes.
The Optimist was happy-go-lucky. Saw good in everything and made the best of everything that happened.
The Dad was worried about his Pessimist Son. He was worried that his son would never succeed with his attitude. So the Dad decided to do something at Christmas. He decided to buy his Pessimist Son the best bicycle of its day. And to his Optimist Son, he was going to buy a lousy gift.
At Christmas, the Pessimist Son got a new bike. It was the best. But the Pessimist Son said he was worried. There were thorns out there and he could get a flat tire. He could wreck and scratch his new bike. So he was worried about taking any risks.
The Optimist Son then opened his Christmas gift. It was a big box. He opened the box and the box was filled with horse shit. The Optimist was very happy, he hugged his dad, and then ran out the door looking for his brand new horse.
You see Mac, no matter the articles, we can view them as a Pessimist or an Optimist. I choose to learn in an Optimistic way. Thanks.
Ugly, that was one helluva story and I do see your point. I try to be optimistic about everything, but at times it is really trying. braveheart
That optimist was indeed a dumbass. Funny story though.
That optimist sounds like an Obama voter.
Also look up “rocket stoves”. You can cook on a rocket stove using nothing more than twigs for fuel. Also have a small sheet-metal (not cast) wok on hand. A spun wok is very fuel-efficient, which is why they exist.
The date in the power point (concern) 1990
I don’t get it why don’t we just tell them if they pull all the spikes out of the railroad track’s the train will derail and make sure you tell them the ones carrying all the ethanol car’s or maybe we could tell them to take out are FAILING bridge system’s that could be taken out, hell lets tell the terrorist they could put sugar in are gas pipe lines and take out every car truck we drive, you get my point, if I was a terrorist I would read the news we put out and do a 180 deg turn on what you are looking for, just a thought maybe if we stopped Booming everyone we wouldntt have this problem
Please excuse the typo and spelling errors as I will not put on my fuking glasses until the day arrives when I cannot see the keyboard anymore.
So lets see,
The water system is in danger,
The power grid is in damger,
Obammy care is gonna kill us,
They are spying on my
Im a terrorist because im a patriotic American firearms and shooting sports enthusiast,
Im a terrorist because i disagree with the government,
Im a terrorist because i have extra food, water, fuel, etc etc
So pretty much im screwed!
Why would i even give a shit about anything these idiots do anymore?
At least we all love ya. Keep up the good work!
Man, — you’re just one bad-assed dude Kula……
keep up the good work, Pardner
Some come here to sit n think
Some come here to um
Didnt do anything,,, wasnt me, i swear, i thought she was 20!!!!
Ok?? I guess,
(Quizzical blank look)???
Whatd i do now?
Kulafarmer, I always enjoy your posts and you know you’re in the right kind of company here. braveheart
Just had some of those same wierd issues others were having with posting etc, seems ok now figure it just had to do with shtfplan server upgrade
I’ve been thinking about your request for a good ‘red beans and rice’ recipe. Get some bacon, fry it on gentle heat until you get some of the grease in the pan. Take the bacon out. Fry some chopped onions in the bacon grease until their soft. Then add the uncooked red beans and sauté them until they start popping. Add water to more than cover the beans and boil until soft. Add your salt and pepper at the end to taste. You probably want to start with two inches or more of water over the beans and add as needed. It is not suppose to be a soup but a thick consistency. You can add cut pieces of sausage for flavor as well. I will remove the onions and the bacon and add them towards the end. Season with salt to taste.
Rice is the easiest thing to cook. In a sauce pan with a lid, put 1/3rd cup per serving of uncooked rice and put enough water to cover it with a 1/2 inch or slightly less of water. I rinse by rice off before I cook it. Bring it to a boil and as the rice cooks turn the heat down. When all the water has been absorbed (stick a spoon in and see where the water level is – it should be less than 1/2 way up in the cooking rice) turn the heat down to as low as you can, place the lid on the pot, and let it steam for 8-10 minutes or more. Practice makes perfect. Really, you don’t need a rice cooker but if you have one it is even easier.
Thanks for the recipes, cut n pasted em to my recipes, i like trying different things with the raw materials in my preps, will break up the monotony when SHTF
Ive been experimenting with breads and stuff and am trying to find a decent manual pasta roller/cutter pasta is another easy one.
I need to find some recipes for soy beans, bought a 50# bag and sealed most of it up in pales and mylar bags after the usual freezer nap but have no idea what i was thinking!
Dont have a clue how yo use them beyond making a paste and miso soup.
I do have a rice cooker but have been cooking rice all sorts of ways since i was a kid, is one of my biggest stocks of grains, have about 400# plus of the stuff. Hot sticky white rice with soy sauce and im good to go! Good with sardines too.
Kula, Got a recipe for baked soybeans in a really old cookbook. I’ll run it down and get back to ya.
@Kulafarmer, I am glad you found it. I had intended to put your name at the front but somehow overlooked it. We always eat ‘red beans and rice’ on Mondays here in Louisiana. It is our unique tradition. It is healthy and delicious.
Have you planted any taro? Do you have a taro patch? I find that it grows pretty well here but I need to water it during the dry spells. I love taro soup in a meat broth or just as is with some greens and seasoning to taste. Toni Chachare’s seasoning mix is fantastic, if you can get some. Definitely something you need to have in your essential supplies.
@Mac, Thank you for your articles. Your article on the electric grid was very timely and pertinent and folks need to realize there may not always be a grid. Growing up, we lived off the grid. It can be done. I am grateful for the modern conveniences of running water, flush toilets, and lights that can be turned on at the flip of a switch and stoves that can bake and cook at the turn of a dial or the punch of a button. But, we need to realize that this may not always be available as we enter a new period in the history of the world. To this day though, I love to fly over a city at night and look at all the lights, different hues and colors as you glide over the city to the airport. It is always a special moment.
Going forward, I am convinced that learning how to start a fire and cook over an open fire is a skill everyone needs to acquire using the most basic of tools and utensils.
Are you my TWIN? No you would have to be my Triplet. I already have a twin brother. LOOK OUT TPTB. If you get me you will have to answer to him and visa versa. this goes for all my Bro’s and Sisters on here.
AIM SMALL MISS SMALL
Aim small but make big holes!
At least on the exit!
The people in charge of the country embrace Agenda 21 rules and want most Americans to die. Maybe their own hackers will shut down the power grid and disable water treatment facilities in the US. Maybe they would claim Tea Party members were the hackers and they would use that as an excuse to brand all conservatives as terrorists.
If they were stupid, they would try that.
They’ve already branded conservatives as terrorists…they don’t need excuses to do so.
I’m just going to focus on my job, work out and stay in shape.
I’m tire of worrying about shit I have zero control over.
When things go bad…shelter in place…out come the candles, MREs, Arctic sleeping bags and all will be well. Just got a massive mean dog for the family front-line.
Just keep stocking metals.
Have you ever seen a fiat currency not crash?
They have the end game planned.
I have two links for you to read.
In my lifetime the currency supply has increased my a factor of ten.
Think about that!
You know the end game and the elite are holding the price of metals down as they are stocking up. Russia, China, India, S. Korea and many others are ditching paper and going after metals to be ready to back a new electronic currency.
So if you are in paper or the USD….YOUR FUCKED.
You’ll brag about your returns…but how about return of capital?
I might not get rich…buy my end game it to pack on metals…then when the dust settle..cash it in..and buy rental property to leave my lineage…professionally mgt.
Then have it audited annually.
The end game for your kids….what you leave them should be rental property that is paid for, fixed up and not in a war zone.
I collect the money from my tenants and they are like my debt slaves.
Old guy signing off.
Excellent plan. I’m right with ya. I’m not loosing any sleep anymore.
The name of his article is “Report: Massive Vulnerability Detected In National Power Grids: ‘There Is No Way to Stop This'”
NOT “How to Save Your Sorry Butt When the Lights Go Out.”
Irony ~ In the meantime, the DHS, purchases a multitude of hollow tipped bullets and items similar to it, yet is dragging their feet on protecting the United States Grid. Makes sense to me. (sarcasm sign flashing)
I feel that there is, “Something wicked this way comes”? Everyone needs to keep their eyes and ears open.
B Aware, B Awake, B Alive
Hold what is true to the heart and never back down~
As a former SCADA tech, I can tell everyone that these vulnerabilities have been known by industry insiders for over a decade.
There is too much money to be made and political power to be had by TPTB to change the system.
If you want to control the masses, control their communications, water, sewage, lights, heat and cooking.
The “flaws” in the system are not “flaws”. They are there because someone wants them there.
Now they can shut off power to whole regions they dislike, claim “terrorism” and have plausable deniability.
….but no one would EVER do that…
Best thing you can do aside from gathern shit/stuff is get right with like minded people in your local.
Ok so quick tip 🙂 ZIPPO… Dont have some, get some. They are great lighters. Now my tip is, anyone who owns them knows one thing. Flints, and flints. DON’T BUY FLINTS! Seriously. Get ’em for free. If you smoke or know someone that does. You can harvest the flint from and old disposable lighter.
Grab a knife, needle nose pliers, whatever…a flat head screwdriver works best. Pop of the little wheel you flick with your thumb. Once you get it off extract the flint. Works fine in any Zippo lighter. Lets face it you can find disposable lighters laying around on the ground. And Yes I know flints are really not that expensive..but never pay money for shit, you can get on your own!
One last thing. I hate to ramble, but as a prepper I always worry about getting things. Buy your Beans, bullets, and Band-aides sure. BUT Things like batteries, Alcohol, gas, blankets, all kinds of thing really. Buy some, but don’t go nutz. WHY?
If you plan on bugging in and have other houses around. I am willing to bet that at least a handful of those house, if not more will be empty when the SHTF. People will pack up and leave in a huge rush. They will grab food, water, clothes and pictures. Once they go, they will not be coming back. Once they go, check out there house and see what you can find. Better you get it, than some scum bag looters!
Zippo’s are the best.I own many and have a few times worn out the hinges,with a lifetime warranty send to the good folks at Zippo in Bradford Pa. on Zippo drive(yep,they have their own road!)and they send em back good as new.
Don’t forget there’s a little SPRING under that flint, so when you pop the wheel off, you’ll either have to catch the flint or search for it—depending on your method of extraction.
What is a Zipo but a tiny piece of flint (actually not flint but Ferrocerium a man made material) a striker coton and a wick. The tiny piece of Ferrocerium is really the whole workings. Why not keep a piece of Ferrocerium better known as firesteel in stead. Strike force and blast match is basicly a Zipo with a flint (Ferrocerium) rod a hundred times it’s size. Then you can make or carry any type of fire stater you want such as coton balls with Vasolile (one of the favorites that will float and burn at the same time) also a Zippo and like lights require naphtha which will evaporate whether you use them or not.
The cost is in the billions. Any of you morons volunteer to pay more taxes to fix the problem? Did not think so.
The problem is the system itself… we are looking for a solution for a problem that can’t be fixed — your point about the billions required to do it is spot on NC.
The solution is grid independence.
How about the government lets Americans install alternative energy on their property without the need for restrictive regulations?
Right now, in order to put up solar panels (or any alt energy system like hydro or wind), many districts require a power company to approve your system and tie it back into the grid.
Perhaps if government stepped out of the way, and the mega-lobbies working for power companies like PG&E stopped trying to control the activities of private individuals living on their own land who want to provide for themselves, we could began solving this problem.
I constantly hear the argument that we need more sustainable energy… yet, the very same people screaming about green this and green that are the ones supporting regulations that do exactly the opposite.
The solution is not Top-down… it’s bottom-up. It should start at the individual level, not from a centralized authority.
Moreover, those who provide their own power should be given tax incentives and write-offs that they would normally pay to help build, maintain and sustain the grid (which they will no longer need).
We should not punish those who want to harvest energy or water themselves. We should be rewarding them.
Set us free NC !
I agree Mac,
The solution is from the bottom up, it won’t work on the economy but on power it will.
My solution for getting around the various rules and regulation was to do it on the sly. A very small pv footprint outside with a large inside distribution and containment center ready for when the rest of the panels will be neededas in a grid down situation.Not to discourage others it took a few years to compile as I do work for a living but it’s very doable.
As other have said smaller solar chargers for you can’t live without electronics with a backup in a emp proof container. I’ve read reports of pro and con as to what will and will not fail in a emp event. One is none and two is one mentality.Most alternate energy plans are within the ordinary budget.Most everyone has either wind, water and sun to use.
Why if regulated you do it under cover,seriously,fuck the govt. at all levels that try and keep one dependent on their puppet system.
…its the same as obarry care Mac…everyone must be forced to be hooked into the system…pay into the system…depend on the system…cant have independent people out there on their own not paying into/supporting the system…so it applies to the grid and to most any other govicorp scheme….with the goofy logic of obarrycare whats to keep them from demanding we all buy power whether or not we need/want it or pay a penalty/tax each year??
I know it won’t be greeted well here, but I read this kind of thing and have to inject some common sense…
“its the same as obarry care Mac…everyone must be forced to be hooked into the system”
Regarding the whole health care theme that seems to be a never-ending fount of stupidity. You are already “hooked into the system” by the default state of being alive. At some point, you will need medical services. Prepper or not, unless your spouse is an MD with a complete home lab with diagnostic and treatment equipment (which is no one), then you are reliant upon our health care system. It is currently dominated by insurance companies that prior to the Affordable Care Act, could decide for any reason whatsoever to drop your coverage or not cover you due to pre-existing condition. If you think that is preferable, control by a profit driven corporation that loses money if they heal you, versus a legislature that you vote for and can at least to some degree hold accountable, then you are insane. No, it’s not perfect and the potential for corruption is a problem… but anyone with any sense will go with that before putting their life in the hands of a CEO and his boardroom when you can do nothing but make them poorer when you get sick.
Agreed Mac. But it really doesn’t matter how much we pay in taxes, they never use the money to FIX anything…it all goes to fund war or terrorists, or into the elite’s pockets.
ncjoe, what was spent on those stupid wars in Iraq and Afghanistan plus creating the extra layer of bureaucracy known as DHS SHOULD HAVE been spent on upgrading the grid, but as always, TPTB that you always stand up for had other priorities. We’re BROKE and can’t AFFORD any more taxes, you retard!
Volunteer to pay more taxes!!! That’s absolutely hilarious!! Why don’t you send them more money? Right now they’re spending as much as they want between borrowing and money printing. They don’t want to fix the grid. A grid failure is part of their plan.
We pay enough taxes dummy!….besides its the power companies who have refused to plow some of the profits back into the system in a decent manner to up keep the grid…anybody who has a power bill can see they pay more in taxes and fees than for the power they used…its not the taxpayers job to keep the system up its the companies who own thems job!
Scotty, beam me up. There’s no intelligent life with ncjoe or any other trolls.
Brave. Now you believe in spaceships? Just kidding. NC is not stupid, rather he likes to spin you up and watch. Tis kinda fun.
Urban, I only borrowed a line from ‘Star Trek’ and made a couple of minor changes to it. ncjoe tries to spin up everyone. he doesn’t single out anyone.
If you had left out the word “moron” you have got more green, less red ……. and it would have appeared an intelligent post!
I wonder how many sheep are going to watch and actually LEARN from the upcoming documentary American Blackout. Keep prepping folks. One day, we the prepared individuals, will have the last laugh I am guessing.
America, I doubt if a whole lot of them learn anything and yes, we the prepared ones, CAN have the last laugh if we want to, but I’m not going to laugh. Being thrown back into the 1800s will not be a laughing matter.
You’re right braveheart,
but I’m going to chuckle
a lot — a helluva lot
Mac, I like your response to ncjoe’s stupidity better than mine. Way to go. braveheart
let it crumble, im tired of being tracked like a 5 point
Woops, forgot the link, here it is.
Many folks noted that fuel has a limited shelf life.A small propane generator for basics run very limited could keep one going quite a while and propane as long as not leaking has a multi year shelf life.That said,keep it low key as far as use,folks with bad intent(OK just trying to survive,I get that but not at my expense!)will see that you are obviously doing well if you have a bunch of lights on ect.As I think about this more and more and prep realize there may be a lot of orphans,I went to great medical lengths to not have kids but realize perhaps my purpose is to help these kids out in tough times(sigh),really want freedom but believe in the end will perhaps be a foster parent to best of my ability.Friends have said I make a good babysitter/guard dog for their kids,not sure I have what it takes to be a good foster parent if needed but may not have a choice in tough times and will just have to deal with it.Enjoy the day,prep for tomorrow.
It would be better to save your propane for cooking. A generator is too much of a waste of fuel in my opinion.
It’s a nice thought about adopting after it hits the fan. There’s a good chance we’ll take in a child too depending on the circumstances.
Anon,when it hits the fan want to fight the evil and have said in past as I have no kids/wife tis ok if I die doing the right thing.That said,perhaps my purpose in doing the right thing is choosing battles carefully and caring for the kids that will inevitably be left alone in a bad situation,while I do not feel I am the best choice by any means perhaps better then the alternatives.
I have just added getting sterno and a chafing dish….should be able to heat up canned foods, soups, the like, right? And, can do it inside, so no food smells wafting around to neighbors….just a thought….
Gone,did check those out,but was able to do whole setup for about 60 with a few pipes/pump/fittings ect.That is though a cool system and worth a look for some folks.Again,this article has proven it’s worth in the sharing of knowledge among posters.
Oooops,not enuff coffee yet!Posted wrong reply,Sue,have no idea if sterno a good heater.I do have cans of sterno got for free,will pop lid on can of soup and try a direct heat up and let you know how it works out
I made a little stove to use with a sterno can from some real stiff wire mesh, is a 1″ eye expanded metal, little heavier one, cut a 12×12 piece and bent two sides on a brake about 2.5″ can stock 2 sternos under it and actually fry eggs or bacon or make pancakes and stuff and will warm soups etc,, sorta rustic but works, costco has cases of sternos pretty cheap
This last spring I was on Coleman’s website, and I found a propane fueled crock pot. It was marketed as a tailgaiting must have. Of course I said I must have it. It is one of many different cooking options I have.
Don’t underestimate the powers of Aladdin/Stanley thermos.
It will keep water hot for 24 hours.
Love my little sterno stove!! It heats a pot to boil in a short time and you can relight sterno until it’s empty.
Update to other post,
Found a very, very, very old book a few years ago.
‘The Diary of a CaveMan’
Glad I didn’t toss it away.
Must have been the same cave man that sat around in his cave, beating on a stump with a stick complaining to his wives, “…hunhhhh, we ain’t never gonna have radio!!..”
There is no way the grid can be guarded. It doesn’t have to be a main station that is attacked physically, it can be transformers and that can black out a lot. With a cyber attack, magnitudes. I read a terrorist report put out years ago on the internet and the real main concern with a power outage was not so much the power outage, but the attack during the power otage when everyone was in a chaotic state of mind and much more vulnerable. That is something to think about.
All the more reason to prep well and not panic.
Just take the electrical grid OFF THE INTERNET. Is that so difficult? Why in god’s name does everything have to be connected to the internet. We survived without it much better, thank you.
They put everything on the internet so they can access it all at will. That was part of their plan. Remember, logic doesn’t apply to evil.
I am thinking that with all that has been happening in the last couple of years. If you aren’t prepared at this point you just anemic not going to be prepared.
I just figured out why I keep getting sent to moderation. I put my email in the email box in the comment form, but it ends up in the website box, which sends the comment to moderation. I didn’t check for that, so it went through like that. Mac, you may want to check your pointers in the comment form.
Senator Bartlett has a really good bugout location. The link in the article is to the trailer for “Urban Danger.” Find the whole movie and watch it to see the senator’s retreat. He has some really good ideas, especially relating to his water supply. He built his house over a spring. He has a hand pump at the kitchen sink. Every morning he pumps water up to a storage tank in the attic. Then he turns a valve and the kitchen faucet works. Watch the movie to see all his other great ideas.
No surprise here. being there is really no massive ‘outside’ terrorist threat, other than what the government itself concocts, DHS is NOT incompetent in ignoring this ‘potential’ threat, but very efficient, since it knows succinctly there is no intention of ‘false flag’ attacking the grid by its colleagues in tyranny. Of course this can always change.
I have been prepared for years for TSTHTF, kind of an extension of my love of the out doors, 4-wheeling and camping. I can sleep as good in a tent as my bed. Twice in Kentucky we had to large ice storms and they knocked everything around me out. OH but not me I don’t think my lights even flickered. I ended up lending things to friends and relatives, and if something happened again I don’t think any of them would be any more prepared. Can’t people think for them selves. I even had to tell one if they need some light for the children just go outside and twist the head off the garden solar lights and set a few up. Well if there is going to be some doom I want to be in the middle of it this time and I hope that it is big enough that the government can’t help because my biggest fear is government help.
I’m surprised no one has mentioned the GridEx II “drill” scheduled for November 13 and 14 of this year. I wonder if someone will “accidentally” flip the wrong switch during the drill.
Test. 2 apple
Release the Kraken.
Thanks for the list of tips, you bring dialog and useful info to the table. Here’s some more:
Water: Either you have clean, safe drinking water or you die. Simple as that. You need storage, transport, purification down to the virus level. Sawyer makes the best filters for that, (Sorry Big Berkey fans, but tested specs prove it.)
Food: As TnAndy mentioned- canning. Super easy to do and well worth it. Did you know you can even dry can hamburger and other meats and even butter? Now you do. Check You Tube for Lindas Pantry or Kats Cradle, both have excellent You Tube channels on food canning and preservation. If you decide to can (which you should) make sure you buy the Tattler lids and bands- around since 1978 and reusable unlike the metal ones you buy.
Heating/cooking: I see a lot of talk about propane, Coleman camping stoves, and what not, but the BEST, most efficient cook stoves are by far the Rocket Stoves. These are basically little kilns that use things like 1/2″ sticks and pine needles for fuel. Very, very little smoke and can boil a pot of water in about 15 minutes. Search for Rocket Stoves or ECO Zoom Versa. About $128 bucks and worth every penny. I have enough twigs and sticks stockpiled to cook with for the next 5-8 years.
Power Generation: I have already posted on here a few times about off-grid solar setups, so I will add some alternatives for you. Someone mentioned car alternators for power generation, and they were close, but no cigar. Car alternators produce power around 2000-2500 RPM’s. If you are trying to use these for a wind turbine, or even pedaling with a bicycle, you are in for a letdown. Your best bet is to get a PMA alternator. I have seen them work firsthand, so I can vouch for the results. One in particular (DC-540)starts making 12 volts at only 130 RPM’s. A slow pedal on a bike or even 3-8 MPH wind will easily do that for you. Check out Wind Blue Power. They make the best ones that I have ever seen:
Lighting: If you haven’t bought LED light bulbs yet, you are missing the boat. CFL and incandescent bulbs cannot even come close to the efficiency (or safety) of LED bulbs. They use ridiculously low amounts of power, are pretty much instant on (unlike CFL bulbs which have to gradually brighten as they warm up) and they have no poisonous mercury in them like CFL bulbs. Both Home Depot and Costco have great selections of CREE and FEIT electric LED bulbs. My current 60 waters only use 9.5 watts of electricity, and are rated at 3 hrs./day for 22.5 years. Get them and never look back.
I have a lot of lanterns Coleman duel fuel and even 500 candle power Petromax, but the new LED head lamps have basically made them obsolete. A couple rechargeable batteries and a solar charger and your good to go. What good does it do to light up an area that your not looking at.
I have the small LED flashlights from TSC.
I am using two in my pumpkins right now on the porch.
The lights require 3 AAA batteries and so far, the batteries in those flashlights has lasted over 20 hours.
I just use 6 batteries each night, and charge them with my battery charger the next morning, unless I forget the little buggers and grab them later.
Am I surprised the length of these batteries?? Oh,, yeah.
LED all the way now for me. 🙂
Socrates… excellent post. I would like to add: If you want to generate power Without Spending Cash, use a car alternator. This can be done with a Bicycle. Get a junk full size mountain bike. Build a rear wheel stand with a bracket for the alternator that has a serpentine pulley. Take off the rear tire and put on a serpentine belt from the auto wrecking yard around the whole rim and alt pulley. Wire it up to your battery. Put the bike into high gear and peddle. You will have the needed rpms to produce current and it will not cost anything…all made with discarded junk. Search you tube for details and a vid. @ MAC.. the reason I think the article is useless is because we have known of the grid problems since Y2K. 14 years is a long time to become “aware”. If it included prep solutions, then it would be useful, just like the links you provided me in your reply. You have done a great sevice by providing this site. I guess a few of us are getting burned out with the doom, instead of solution. Look back at a few article replies, and you will see that long time contributers are expressing the same sentiment, maybe not as blunt as me.
Since they are making everyone go to electronic charting, there is nothing for doctors to fall back on after a grid collapse either.
Likewise for all you that use online banking, online mortgage payments, and online bill paying.
I do NOT pay my mortgage, or utilities online.
I used to work for and with utilities from the early 90’s until approx. ’06. I will not discuss the vulnerabilities because the information might be used against us. Suffice to say it is nearly impossible to cost effectively harden the Utility infrastructure. Your utility costs might triple or quadruple, standard of living drop like a rock and We would still remain vulnerable. That is why it hasn’t been done. Enough of the sensationalism. It is what it is and has been so for decades.
Instead, I prepared at home. I installed 6kw of PV solar, using a combo on grid/off grid system, with a gas powered generator interface and GSM batteries. I installed a special evap cooler to retain cooling capability during an extended outage (I live in the Desert SW – heat is our worst enemy, not cold). I have extensive and redundant water purification systems to make my pool a source of potable water, and could use it for non-potable uses for a very long time. I have multiple hand pumps to “expropriate” (obtain) gasoline from nearby gas stations. Extra filtration to keep the crud out of the fuel lines’and gallons of fuel stabilizer. Silver to pay the shopkeepers for the gas in an extended grid down scenario. Etc, etc.
It is illogical and impractical to harden the grid to a degree worthy of the expense. Rather, harden your bug in or bug out site considering how you would live right where you are for months at a time in a grid down condition. Back up plans to leave are assumed in case it becomes too violent to remain in place. If enough people do this it makes the entire grid less vulnerable and much more adaptable in a crunch.
HooYah, and bring it on.
random southwest question, if you don’t mind what state/ area do you live in and what type of fruit and vegetables can grow out there?
Las Vegas, NV. Mixed bag on gardens. Requires an extreme effort for square foot gardening, proper shading, etc. Prior years were OK for beans, cantaloupe, tomato’s etc. But yield this year was near zero. I am unsure exactly why but this isn’t a good place to be a farmer. Thus, I have “a little” freeze dried supplies.
I guess you all have forgotten that there was life before electricity. Oil lamps and cooking on a woodstove was a way of life for several centuries and could be again. The problem with a lot of people is they have forgotten to stop and smell the roses, meaning that everything doesn’t have to be instant a nice kettle of soup bubbling on the back of the woodstove while a loaf of bread baking in the oven could take the place of a lot of the pills people take these days, if they would take a deep breath and let it.
I was just told the other day that I was out of step with the world because I don’t have a clothes dryer, we’ll see who’s out of step when the time comes sheet that were dried on the line rally smell so good.
Amen to the clothes line smell of fresh sheets. We live where it rains most weeks and we survive without a drier. A rack in front of the wood heater gets double value out of the wood and keeps the air from getting too dry.
As for the frantic pace of life, I have taken a step back, traded a sales reps job for work on a farm, and yes we are busy, but nature cannot be overtaken. Some days the cows just take longer to milk because they do. Even my 14 hrs a day, 30 something boss knows how to just enjoy the wait.
They prepared alright , lots of stockpiled bunkers ,billions of rounds of ammo . Just not prepared in a way that benefits the kool aid helots.
The latest article has disappeared and all comments made since 5:49 p.m. yesterday.
We have been told for a couple of years now that the grid is going to fail, and nothing has been done to rebuild it. The money has been going into other projects and pockets of TPTB. They are telling us what they are going to do to us to try and take us over or to a FEMA camp.
So here is what I have been doing Solar, and Wind. I’m hoping that it is only down for maybe a year or so. I believe I have it covered. I know and have made plans to down size the use of my house. I will miss these blogs.
If I were you and you don’t have Solar and Wind set up I would get up to speed ASAP.
There are many articles on many sites, They are wealth of Info.
AIM SMALL MISS SMALL!
No money for the solar and wind!
Am just planning on making do like its 1880!
This seems to be the vein of their next crisis.
It would make the most sense.
I share this as a reminder to “BE CAREFUL WHERE YOU DRIVE.”
Brooklyn, NY – A group of ten black youths (ages 12-18) stopped a car and beat a young white couple.
During the attack, the youths yelled racial slurs.
This was not even reported in the news until SIX DAYS later.
Ronald Russo suffered a “fractured nose, a broken septum, a blood clot and abrasions to his shoulder. He was treated and released from Beth Israel Medical Center.”
Alanna Russo had a “black eye, bleeding and difficulty breathing, prosecutors said, but she refused medical attention.”
wnd dot com
Howdy, KY Mom. There’s no way those monkeys would’ve dragged me out of my vehicle. I would’ve either run over them or shot them.
Hey there Brother!
You are right there would be a lot of teen agers leaking fluid if they tried to pull me or my wife out of a car.
Between my wife and I we would send 26 115gr. HP’s. down range. I know that at least 20 would hit the mark. When Sick Dogs, ZOMBIE, or a LEACH attacks you. You have to put it down.
AIM SMALL MISS SMALL
big MAC attack. 11-9. Know what I mean. “Dont leave home without it”
Without knowing the status of their vehicle at the time (engine running or not, parked, first in line or boxed in at an intersection, close or a good distance from the vehicle in front, incoming traffic etc) it is impossible to tell whether or not their car would have been a viable weapon in this situation.
As for opening fire, for that you have to be able to reach your gun. Being armed doesn’t necessarily mean you would be able to put that weapon to good use in every circumstance. Say, a surprise attack by multiple aggressors who have at least one of your arms immobilized and are beating the crap out of you. I’d like to think I know how to handle myself fairly well (and I still have lots I could learn and train more on) but I don’t think I would be able to fight the reflex to protect myself from a savage beating in order to get to my gun. I would need a lull in the action, so to speak to even have a chance at it and even then I might be too disoriented from getting my head kicked in to be able to draw and fire fast enough to avoid being disarmed or worse, have my own gun turned against me when they all jump me again. In fact, I think being armed could have cost that couple their lives.
But don’t get me wrong, I am all for carrying self-defence measures of all sorts, including a gun. Hell I wish concealed carry was a widespread legal option up here and there have been a lot of times I wish I’d been armed with more than my pocket knife and my car. I am just cognizant that a concealed handgun isn’t always the best option in a given situation. After all it’s not because you have a hammer that you will never come across a case where you would need screwdrivers or wrenches, right?
If you grew up in a shit hole city (like I have) then you should First be Aware of your surounding enviroment. That way you know when to start spraying lead.
I think the really sad part is the youngest participant in this assault was a 12 year old girl.
That is a sad reflection of society.
KY Mom, if they’re old enough to know the difference between right and wrong, they’re old enough to know there are consequences. That man in the attack should’ve had SOMETHING in his car for self-defense. if nothing else, just run over the trash. braveheart
Baboons do as baboons are, and im not being racist, but these kind of idiots attack eachother when there isnt some “different” nationality to wack.
You’d think at a cost of trillions of dollars and a mission to keep Americans safe the DHS department would spend more time addressing things like this instead of reading people’s emails.
That is the basic cognitive disconnect. The role of DHS is not to keep Americans safe: it is to keep Americans and American territory under control, thereby keeping the political power structure safe.
I work in the electric power industry. All the communications links they refer to are secondary control. Every substation, every breaker has local controls and protection. Could you “open” the grid or shut down a plant through an attack? Yes. Could you keep it down, NO. This is no more than the “Y2K” fear mongering that the government does to appropriate more money.
Can you cold start your local system when sheeple are looting and generally just freaking out and being idiots??? Im sure eventually, when all is not a controlled environment it may be a tough task, definitely wont be able to sync all the generating stations if loads are bouncing here n there, maybe a limited repower can be successful, but if comunications are down from overload or backup failures, or there is danger to line personell who needs to manually open circuits to be able to not blow shit up,
I know over here we rarely loose power, still lots of manual systems, but the last big earthquake shut almost all power generation on all islands, the most populated, Oahu took about 6-10 hours to get back up and that was in the best of circumstances,
Now if the same happened in say LA or NY
Where there is a large population of people predisposed to act like Baboons, i feel sorry for the utility employees who actually go out in that,
Anyway, not trying to be a dick but i know how the general population can put a damper on the best plans,
I am more fearful of an EMP type event than of a terrorist cyber attack. All of governments services are hardened and backed up. I wouldnt put it past our government to do it. An EMP event would be absolutely devastating.
Definitely a higher propability,
That said our own government terrorists are the only ones capable of a mass attack
Civilization is always vulnerable. But is also robust, self organized and built from the bottom up.
We have devolved into a top down feudal system. It is not civilization anymore, it is not robust.
hello ! am I the only one who can see the elephant in the room ? without a grid, how are you going to power your nuclear plants ? oh that’s right. your not.
not just you good folks, but all of us on the planet, better start praying that you don’t have your own personal Fukushimas on your doorsteps. this has the potential to turn into GAME OVER very very quickly.
If you live close (200 miles) from a Nuke plant, you have a few weeks to evacuate the area, and go up wind. Most Nuke plants only have about 30 days of backup diesel fuel to power the generators tokeep the spent nuke rodacool. If they don’t get re-supplied with more diesel fuel, they begin to overheat and the meltdown begins just like at Fukashima. Everyone should have this website handy: http://www.RadiationNetwork.com It is an interactive U.S Map that updates every 5 minutes as to the Radiation exposure from all the nuke plant sources. Keep you eye on this and the wond direction. Stay up wind and away from these areas. Also ASAP Purchase Postasium Iodide pills tokeep your liver filled with good radiation which keeps out the bad harmful radiation. They even have these pills for pets. Go to: http://www.CampingSurvival.com for the pills orsearch other places. But look at the Radiation Network Map now to plan your evacuation far from any Nuke plant. Good Luck.
“Also ASAP Purchase Postasium Iodide pills to keep your liver filled with good radiation which keeps out the bad harmful radiation.”
Time to nit-pick to prevent misspoken details from being used to attack credibility.
“Also ASAP Purchase Postasium Iodide pills to keep your thyroid saturated with good iodine which keeps out the bad harmful radioactive iodine.”
The recommendation is still 100%.
If you have the space and and spend about ten bucks a week you should stock up on the things you will need when all the solar and batts run out. and if in winter think what it will be like for the kids. i hope the light stay on but i keep prepping just in case something like a blackswan event ( like what happend in japan) does happen,
Heres something we all need to think about if we havent already,
I have heard a lot of talk of propane or sternos or generators or stuff like that,
IF the power is out short term, that stuff is all fine and dandy, if its out long term or maybe FOREVER that stuff is only a temporary stop gap,
Personally im leaning towards more crude cooking arrangements ie a wood fire,
Its pretty warm here so cooking inside with our wood stove is not really an option, am leaning towards just cooking on my wood fired bbq smoker outside, we dont have a lot of neighbors and the ones i do have are either like me, are ok and i will gladly share, or will get a bullet because they are useless, i kid, really dont think any of them will need that option, anyway, point is im not too worried about cooking smells as we are pretty isolated and have folks around who will be doing the same thing,
I guess what i was trying to point out was that you will need some sturdy cookware, and a fuel source you can collect or scavenge, most likely those propane bottles or sterno cans or liquid gas camp stoves will be better to keep for need in a pinch,
Lighting is another big one, you will eventually run out of candles, or mantles etc, batteries will go bad, bulbs will burn out, old school oil lamps are a good light source, a 55gallon drum of kerosene will last a long long time and if you cut it with old cooking oil will last even longer, not ideal but will at least give you light, you do need to be careful though with fumes and carbon monoxide! Diesel fuel will work like kerosene too, little more smokey but light is light,
So unless you have a kukui nut tree growing in your yard you better think of how you will get light together long term.
I’m counting on LEDs for light for the first 5 years. LEDs take a long time to go bad. Also I collect the Lithium-Ion cells from old laptop batteries. The charge management circuit is what usually fails in those, leaving at least some of the cells serviceable. One cell puts out just the right voltage for white LEDs, (about 4 volts) and they are easily recharged from a solar panel. Store the cells at 1/2 of full charge, and they last indefinitely.
Dollar General–I have enough matches for the next ten years using one a day.
People, buy matches!!!
I have a military tent coal/wood burning stove to cook on if I need to go past the coleman fuel stored–lots of it.
And, lastly, a solar oven in the attic!!
Oh, got a Crisco/lard can?? Just put in a wick, light and no fumes for a candle.
We will all die! with about 200 nuclear power plants in meltdown mode there will be nowhere to run to unless you plan on living underground in a well stocked bunker for a long time, this is a preppers worst nightmare…well at least mine. Good luck everyone if…when it happens!
a exercise bike or regular bicycle with a 12 volt alternator can charge a car battery. 12 volt lights & appliances are available. Also a savonus rotor windmill is very efficient. Myself I would prefer a 1800,s lifestyle. Shure ill miss the modern comforts. However with Obamas war on coal fired electricity. I can envision a time when only the very wealthy can afford electricity. My local coop states its possible the average light bill could exceed $1000 per month.
I dunno – I expect that the Free Shit Army would raise such a stink that the PTB would subsidize electric service. After all, how else can they keep the FSA rank and file brainwashed if it can’t afford TV?
They already do subsidise it for the freeloaders.
Maybe its just me but I wouldn’t never kiss the PTB,s ass so as to receive subsidize electric service.
Where does the extra money come from? Well a 5.5 billion a year comes from the PO! We’ve had a mandate, by congress, to pay into a “fund” for 75 years of retirees and healthcare…all to be done in 10 years. Only recently have we defaulted on the payment. I work my ass off only to have a larger longer route every year. Even before the mandate, the PO would make billions in profits. Don’t listen to them say that the PO isn’t making money. They twist the wordage. We’re nonprofit. So everytime we make say 3 billion, we hand that extra money over to congress and they spend it, but then tell the American people we lost billions. Lmao, such bs lies! We’re the only part of the gubberment that makes money and on the backs of blue collar workers. For the past ten years management has squeezed us and squeezed us for more and more. I’m thankful to have a job, but it’s not monkey work like it was twenty years ago. These bastards, instead of allowing us to keep the extra to increase efficiencty and add jobs, which we could add a LOT, have taken the money. For me personally, I have terminal cancer and kidney failure. I could easily go on disability but I don’t want to be like the EBT crowd that is hanging on everything the gubberment tells them. I too prep. I learned over twenty years ago when I first started, as a matter of fact my very first day when I took the oath to defend the constitution from enemies foreign AND domestic (yes back then we took the oath) that we were also told to lie to the public if ever an accident occured or anything else that could make the gubberment look bad! I still adhere to that oath even though I’m just a mailman. My money is co Sta Ty taken in higher and higher taxes and I have the misery of delivering checks to people that CAN work but refuse to. Makes sick in all of it. I’ve gotten myself and my family to awaken to reality. Big brother doesn’t care about you or your loved ones. I’ve been prepping for years. The grid WILL go down amongst other things. There will be multiple false flags coming. I love this site and most of you who are regulars here I enjoy the talk and have picked up some great tips. What drives me nuts is every single flippin day I hear the others bitch about retirement and about our pay freeze, but they keep voting with the union for dems (dems and reps all the same) to get more stuff. “oh obummer will help our jobs and we’ll make more”…BS! They’re fools! I live an hour away from home which is something I’ve thought about (and any of you who live farther from work as well) how I’ll get home if an emp goes of and you’re stuck. I’ve made multiple contingency plans in that case. I have certain customers who are awake to what’s happening and would temporally shelter me. I also carry a bug out bag in my car and can navigate home without being on the road. You have to realize that when power goes out, you might not be at home. Practice getting home ASAP and ninja like. Bury caches and such. Train your loved ones on how to get home as well and what everyone is suppose to do if not home or when they get there and have to wait for the others. We have secret places to meet with code. Example: I’m at work and it takes me a week to get home. When I finally get there if no ones there because it has become compromised, there will be a code left to go to the next location and so on. Unless you live deep off the grid far away from the mongrels you’ll have to keep on the move here and there until far enough way to be safer. We recently (kids involved) practiced barricading the house and clearing each floor then going over our designated bug points. I’m sorry this was long. Please all of you keep up what you’re doing. The tips and motivation are great. I may work for the gubberment BUT I’m not a satinist like the uppers, I’m Christian, a worker bee and feel the same pain as the rest of you.
May I also add that your local POs will be used as staging areas for supplies and temporary containment areas for people. The PO is under FEMA control. During 911 we were told to “go out and make a show, don’t worry about the mail”. They used us to go out that day to keep people calm. The PO has facilities all over with routes and back up routes to airports, great and small and railways. Logistics have been worked out for years and years. I can NOT confirm rumors about jails in some basements, but in my twenty years in I have spoken to people in the know and “it’s plausible”. No one considers “snail mail” operations as a threat, but when things go down…please stay away from POs
For about the cost of the ACA Obamacare website, the US could have hardened its grid infrastructure to protect against an EMP attack, nice to know that the administration has its priorities in order.
Here are a few coincidential statistice. It has been stated that they have built up enough FEMA Camps to house 50 Million People. This number pretty much matches the same number of people on EBT Food Stamps. And the USDA is going to cut off the funding for that food program on November 1st. Another logistical problem the Military has to overcome, is feeding the Marshall Law Troops. So instead of Buying Millions of MRE’s, andmoving itwith the troops, they just use the same food suply as the EBT Food Stamp Folks would have used and can no longer buy with their benefit freeloader cards. That sudden excess food supply will already be logistically located in every city in America at the local grocery store. So the Marshall Law Troops can just use their military cards to buy or take any amount of food they want. Or if they want, OBummer can pull the NDAA string and take over what they want, because of Marshall Law. The rest of American’s will have to fight over the remaining food scraps. So what a nice strategically place to station troops, is at every local Grocery store parking lots across America. As for the useless EBT Eaters, they will parish in their FEMA cages, or unless they already have been eliminated for looting and rioting. And this falls in line with the Nov 13th-14th Power Grid EXII Drill False Flag across America. Gee I hope I am wrong, but too many dots are aligning up in order to think otherwise. Stay Safe All, prepare to hunker down for months and stay away from the chaos and riots at food stores, and read as much info as you can while the Internet is still up and running now. We are all just a flip of the switch away from Fugly Times.