Report: 82% Chance California Pensions Are Going Under (and You’ll Be Next)

by | Dec 18, 2011 | Headline News | 176 comments

Do you LOVE America?


    “Socialism works only until you run out of other people’s money.”
    -Margaret Thatcher

    According to a recent study there’s an 82% chance that California pensions will run out of money.

    Who didn’t see this one coming?

    Well, my fellow Californians, looks like we’re all pretty much screwed.

    The evidence: a new study by theStanford Institute for Economic Policy Research finds that California’s struggles with giant pension obligations for state workers is getting worse. Much worse. The report finds that unless reforms are taken, pension obligations are almost certainly going to crowd out non-mandated spending for things like education and social services.

    The study, conducted by Stanford Professor Joe Nation along with California Common Sense, covered all three of the state’s largest pension systems.

    Source: Forbes

    California’s pension system is living in a fantasy world where investment returns average 12.5% annually and there’s enough money for everyone.

    The largest union, CalPERS, has a 82% chance of a budget shortfall in the next 16 years.

    Source: Business Insider

    We’ve discussed the destruction of pension funds before, and soon it will become reality. It’s obvious that local, state and federal governments have no intention of cutting spending, regardless of whether that spending is for essential services or discretionary. This means that in order for California (as well as other pension funds nationwide) to keep their funds solvent they need to earn some serious return on their investments. In the case of California that’s 12.5% a year. You’d be hard pressed to find a mainstream financial adviser anywhere in the world that could deliver these kinds of gains (unless, of course, they’re advising you to buy collapse-proof assets like gold and silver).

    And remember, these folks are actually banking on future growth in their traditional paper investments in the midst of the worst economic crisis since the Great Depression. When Europe crumbles, and the dollar becomes a second-rate currency, and it becomes apparent that there will be no real economic growth over the next decade, pensioners expecting to live out their days at a beachfront retirement home will be surprised to learn that their hard-earned retirements have been wiped out.

    We suspect, given the global economic climate, that the 16 year time frame for budget shortfall is being too generous. If traditional investment vehicles like stocks and bonds collapse, so too will pensions funds, so we could potentially be looking at just a few years from now before California is unable to make good on their promises.

    This is going to affect not just pensions in California, but the entire country, so if you’re planning on that money being available when you finally retire you’d better take some steps now, before the whole thing comes crashing down and you’re left with a small portion of what you expected would be there.

    For those who think they’re safe outside of the pension system with their precious metals invested personal 401K’s or IRA accounts, consider what the blowback will be when millions of Americans’ savings are destroyed. Those who lose everything and have nothing left to lose will take to the streets and demand the government do something.

    Politicians will be happy to oblige.

    They will, like Argentina, Portugal and other countries have in recent years, come after private retirement holdings.

    This can’t happen in American, though.

    Or can it?

    Democrats in the Senate on Thursday held a recess hearing covering a taxpayer bailout of union pensions and a plan to seize private 401(k) plans to more “fairly” distribute taxpayer-funded pensions to everyone.

    Source: – October 2010

    It may not be law – yet. But just like the Patriot Act, Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act (Obamacare), and the National Defense Authorization Act, we’re willing to bet that the legislation is already written and just waiting for the right crisis in order to be sold to the unsuspecting American public.

    Socialism is in its death throes, but our benevolent wealth distributors aren’t done just yet. There are still trillions more left to steal and “share”. Make no mistake: They will take it all – until there’s nothing left.


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      1. CalPers has the ability to simply increase the amount that member cities and counties pay each year to compensate for problems in the markets.

        Having said that, new employees will not get the same deal that older employees have. CalPers continuies to be the best funded pension plan in the United States.

        • You are commenting on a very small part of a much larger point being made.

        • Red Leader: You are not posting an opinion, you are just posting the financial facts about CalPers but no one wants the facts.

          Their minds are not open. Thats why they believe that silver is a precious metal.

          • Durango Kidd, it depends on whose definition you want to use.

            For example, Wikipedia says this, “The best-known precious metals are the coinage metals gold and silver. While both have industrial uses, they are better known for their uses in art, jewellery and coinage.”

            So, their minds are open — it all depends on how you want to define “precious metal”.

            My take is, let’s not get hung-up on semantics and definitions; rather, let’s look at important things and discuss them as intelligent and informed mature adults.

            • DK is an idiot shit disturber, ignore him

            • RID: There are 6 precious metals. I own them and silver too. Precious metals, BY definition, have specific physical and chemical properties. Silver is not one of them.

              Silver does not have the same physical and chemical properties and is not scientifically classified as a precious metal.

              If someone tells you that silver is a precious metal it is a certain clue that he or she does not know metals.

              Many silver links at SHTF Metals for those who want to educate themselves.

              Don’t believe everything you read on Wiki.

              They might tell you that a “Town House” and a “Condo” are the same thing. They are not, but people use them interchangeably. A common error.

              A condo is a legal form of ownership. A townhouse is an architectual style. There’s a difference. Apples and oranges.

              The public often uses labels incorrectly. They do with silver when they say it is a precious metal. Anyone who doesn’t believe me should consult a metallurgist.

              Just saying.

            • DK, I love your passion, but you are dead wrong on the future/potential value of silver. Historically, the ratio of gold to silver is somewhere in the 10-16 to one ratio. The fact that it is currently in excess of 50-1 should give you pause. The antibacterial properties of silver are only recently being recognized in the medical community. Silver is the single best “conductor of electrical and solar energy” currently available.

              Above ground resources are actually rarer than gold. The potential is literally unlimited. Of course, time will ultimately tell the tale of precious metals, but I would not count silver out or quantify it as “less than”.

              As always, my opinion. Although, strictly researched.

            • RID: I appreciate your desire not to get hung up on semantics, but sometimes the right word makes all the difference.

              People who accept and believe that silver is a precious metal are prone to the hype by promoters like Sprott and others (like Future Money Trends) who have a BIG financial interest in pumping silver.

              They want you to ignore the fundamentals and buy silver when the price is dropping because demand is dropping, to protect themselves.

              If the price drops their own speculation might receive a margin call having an adverse financial impact on them.

              In the case of silver, demand is dropping because industrial production is down; particularly in solar panels which are facing a GLUT of overproduction.

              Solar panels are one of the largest users of silver.

              Sprott is actually calling on silver producers to withhold their excess production (production without contracts) to support his exposure.

              By pumping the Alt Media segment (as well as LSM) he hopes to promote silver ownership to protect his position as a trader.

              Its the bigger fool theory and promoters want YOU to be the bigger fool. Silver prices will rise when industrial demand rises. Anything other than that is a manipulation.

              SHTF METALS!!!

            • Yental: Thanks for the comment. Its not that I dislike like silver. I got mine. I just don’t want to see Preppers, who are long term holders of the metal, to think that they are going to get rich buying and holding it. They won’t.

              There is a place for it in their portfolio and in their preps, but promoters are pushing silver to protect themselves because they are exposed to a falling price (shorts).

              That price is linked to demand. If the promoters cannot get people to buy silver to support the price when the fundamentals are weak and getting weaker, then the promoters will face margin calls and financial loss.

              Better them than US.

              Speculate with silver. Invest in gold. Hoard your lead. They won’t be making anymore ammo after the Changes.

              And one more thing … silver is NOT a precious metal! 🙂

            • Richard, I am sorry to inform you that my timing for telling you about Lakewood Coins is bad. I drove past their store the other day and found it to be closed, permanently. There is a sign on the door with an address to contact for more info. I must say I am shocked at the closing, since I went there for many years. I am writing to that address in hopes they have moved or are planning to. Otherwise there is an outift in Erie I plan to visit soon.

            • durango kid – so, you are the expert on metals and Wikipedia and about a thousand other sources are wrong.

              And, you still don’t get the true message of what I said earlier. Perhaps you need to take a nap – I’m just saying.

            • Guess Durango is short silver…

              AU and AG have been used my a massive array of unrelated cultures for thousands of years. It is also **fungible** – THAT is the reason multiple cultures over multiple millenia have turned to using silver and gold as money. And no, the US goverment did not bail out miners, e.g., King Hezekiah’s kingdom almost 3,000 years ago, so DK completely misses the point, whether or not he wishes to make that argument from that act (I forget the name, just over 100 years ago).

              Next up from DK, the non sequitur about Nixon replacing gold and silver, thus severing the link. He forgot to mention that Nixon also, apparently, replaced the historic ~16:1 ration in the earth’s crust between the two. And, relative to copper or other metals such as nickel being precious, he is apparently unaware that mega-investor Kyle Bass bought 20 MILLION nickels recently. And last I looked, copper was used in pennies (well, as least until a couple decades ago, when, uh… it became too “valuable” to put in pennies any longer. DK asks if copper and tin are precious metals? Well…. if they were as rare as AU and AG, they would be. In case he hasn’t notices, platinum is another metal that has fungible, monetary properties.

              Money is like language. It is an arbitrary convention. The worlds has 95% of the time gone to AG and AU as a store of value. DK has it seriously wrong, and if you do your research you will **take possession** (no paper) and be better off for it.

              Oh yes. And for every comment about Eric Sprott, one could just invoke JP Morgan shorting silver. The ad hominem invective has no value, and one could just as easily accuse DK of being a shill for JP Let’s not even go there

            • JR: Not I am not a trader, broker, or promoter. The only stock I own is in my own company. I do own metals.

              LOTS of metals.

              So much metal that if I were liquid with respect to only 10% of it ….. I would be dangerous!

              At any rate I would sell my metals because I have more ….. metals! 🙂

              Including lots of silver. So I would benefit from any rise in the price of silver. I do not need to profit at your expense, by inducing you to buy silver or gold or platinum for that matter.

              I’m doing OK.

          • In my lifetime, those I encountered who accused me of being close-minded were suffering the exact malady against which they preached.

            • Scott Motto: Suggest you open your mind to the truth, before you open your mouth: silver is not a precious metal by any stretch of the imagination.

              All of the precious metals are many hundreds of dollars per oz. Silver less than $30 today. That should be a clue to even the most closed minded among you. It is not a precious metal.

              Do some research.

              CalPers is also one of the best managed pension funds in the country; and branched out into commodities like metals, some years back if I remember correctly.

            • RID: Richard, precious metals do not tarnish. That is just one physical and chemical characteristic that silver does not possess.

              Just because silver has been used for centuries as money doesn’t make it a precious metal either.

              When silver was OUR Constitutional money its relationship to gold was 16 to 1 as Yental pointed out.

              The US Government bought all of the silver mined making the GB’s of that era rich. Thus “sound money” was much like FREE TRADE is today. It was a way to enrich the very rich mine owners.

              Once that link was broken by Nixon who replaced gold and silver with fiat, the traditional, historical relationships between silver and gold do not apply, at all.

              Don’t be fooled by the promoters that want US to link silver with gold and give it more value than it really has.

              If their is a value relationship between silver and gold that can be described as a ratio now that all money is fiat, it is found in the ratio that silver is found in the Earth’s crust in relation to gold.

              Copper and bronze coins go back thousands of years too. Are copper and tin precious metals? No, of course not.

              Neither is silver. Do your research people. I have.

          • DK, thanks for the dose of reality. I should say that if the Sh@# does hit the fan in a big way, CalPers will be the last pension fund standing before the fall. It too has the possibility of crashing.

            The author should not lump in CalSTRS in with CalPers. They are totally different and unconnected. CalSTRS is very underfunded.

            After Gov. Wilson raided CalPers when he ran out of money the people of California voted that the state of California could never touch CalPers again. This is not the case in other states where they are raiding employee pension funds to keep unfunded entitlements going.

            Of course the best example is both Republicans and Democrats raiding Social Security for their pet projects with no intention of ever paying it back. Social security will be the among the first to go down.

            • Red Leader: CalPers maybe runs out of money in 16 years? LMFAO! Is this the best Business Insider can do?

              I thought the COLLAPSE was coming next year!

              In 16 years half the posters here will be dead from old age. Just saying …… 🙂

            • JR: Nickels are not silver, and nickel being pure nickel are worth more than the five cents; so I suspect Bass is speculating in nickel, but I wouldn’t melt them down if I were him.

              That’s Illegal.

              So what does Bass have? $20 million in nickels. What can you do with millions of nickels? Capture the gumball machine market I suppose. 🙂

              He obviously has too many FRN’s on hand. Way too many!!!

              JR: I haven’t missed the point about silver. My points about silver are thus:

              1. That scientifically, silver is not a precious metal. It tarnishes. precious metals no not tarnish.

              2. It is primarily an industrial metal as it has been mostly eliminated from US coins. Industrial fundamentals for silver are weak and getting weaker; which is why prices are falling. Demand is down.

              That’s also why PROMOTERS are hitting LSM and Alt Media to prop up their asset.

              3.There is NO shortage of silver. There is an eleven month industrial and consumer supply above ground.

              4. New silver mines are due to come on line next year if demand increases. No need to ramp up production if you do not have a contract for that production.

              5. Most silver production is a by product of copper mines and that production is HUGE if the copper mines are operating at full capacity: they are not at full capacity.

              6. I am aware of the manipulation of the price of silver. Don’t think the GB’s can’t do it again if they want to.

              Its the whistle blower that will probably go to jail or be killed “mysteriously” before he can testify.

              7. Silver is a speculators dream. Preppers are long term holders of metal. Its a good investment if their basis is low enough.

              I haven’t looked today but there was a 25% drop in the silver price since the article was posted. Rather prescient wasn’t he? 😉

              But what do you expect from one of the guys that told US last year at this time, that hyper-inflation would hit by last July?

              Analysts say $20-22 an oz. Why buy at $39 or $29? I think it could go lower than forecasted.

              So why would a guy PUMP silver at $39 an oz when the analysts were forecasting a much lower price?

              Speculate in silver. Invest in gold. Hoard your lead. They won’t be making any more ammo after the Changes.

            • JR: You also try to link the price of silver to gold by pointing to the historical link. Nixon severed that link. Its over. Get over it.

              The promoters of “sound money” historically wanting silver added to gold backed dollars were PROMOTERS for the new silver mine owners in the West after the Civil War who had discovered HUGE reserves of native silver.

              In Arizona alone a 50 lb silver nugget of near pure silver was found. These kinds of finds were not uncommon in New Mexico, AZ, Idaho, Nevada, and Nevada.

              Way too much supply so they lobbied and bribed Congress (nothing new) to make silver coins and back dollars with silver as well.

              Eventually the US Government bought all of the silver production enriching the mine owners and backing the dollar with silver too.

              Today WE are obviously in a new paradiam for silver and gold which is why the ratio is now close to 50:1, but its also the reason that promoters PUMP silver while buying and selling as traders.

              Anyone taking the advice offered by Future Money Trends would have lost 25% of the value of their purchase in less than a week.

              Prescient! Simply prescient!!! 😉

        • To give you all a clearer picture than the author does in the article, California has a long term debt of $840,000,000,000.00. yes that is $840 Billion. $500 Billion are Unfunded Pension Liabilities. The other parts are Bond Liabilities of $200 Billion, and finally Structural Debt payments. While debt is not taxed, it does require interest payments. So no matter if the ‘two-tier’ the pension system they will never catch up to the debt due to the interest payments.

          California is bankrupt. The current Democrat Leadership does and will not talk about the debt. They continue to strong arm the public by threatening cuts in Education, Police, and Fire. They never restructure or trim the existing Government organization. This is the land of the Liberal Utopia……Oh, one more thing 1-1-2013 is when Cap & Trade go into effect. That will be the final stake through California’s heart!

          • CalPers is not in the California budget. It is seperate.

            • Yeah, but the question is, does that mean they won’t find a way to steal from it when needed?

        • Unfortunately you are correct in most of what you say. I was talking to the Protective League (our weak union) and they were saying almost exactly what you are saying. The City wants to give all new hirees a 401K style retirement instead of a pension. That way, the City can dip into the 401K’s pockets and rob them and let a politician 25 years down the road deal with the problem.

      2. CORRECTION:
        “Socialism is in its death throes, but our benevolent wealth distributors aren’t done just yet.” Make that “wealth redistributors”

      3. Everyone has to wake up and realize that if you’re expecting to get money for gov. on any level it’s wealth distribution. If you’re a soldier, cop, fireman, teacher, janitor, garbage man or retiree wanting S.S. wanting to get “your pension” you’re a believer in socialism.

        I’ve seen so many people (conservatives) wanting the gov. to cut spending on something but they sure don’t want their entitlements cut. People have to realize that they have been lied to. You can’t expect to retire on the back of another individual. All of these gov. entitlement programs are lies. Socialism doesn’t work.

        Be honest with yourself. Do you want your piece of the socialist pie? If you think that somehow you earned your take (pension or S.S.) then you’re part of the problem. Because this is what everyone will tell themselves. “I’ve paid into it so I should get my take.”

        Yes, your gov. on every level has lied to you. That’s why there is 4 TRILLION dollars of unfunded liabilities with public sector pensions. S.S. is another story. You’re not going to get your pension or retirement. Quit believing in socialism. It never works.

        No man has a claim to another mans property. I don’t care if you fought in a war. If you put out the fire of a burning building. Or wrote traffic tickets for 20 years. You don’t have claim to another mans property (money). If you do, then enjoy your socialist pie. There is never enough pie for everyone.

        • Some of the comments here illustrate a clear lack of understanding of what and who is culpable. First thing is get you need to get the target right – the banks have been bailed out to the tune of $29Trillion dollars (latest estimate) – this was NOT approved by anyone – not by American politicians (besides they are culpable and in the pay of the elites and go into politics to feed of the corporate tit), the people, etc.

          Next point is the US is fighting pointless self-defeating wars it created and building useless and pointless weapons to the tune of trillions of dollars. You all fall for the media propaganda – the so called ‘liabilities’ to which you refer are actually the only ones funded from tax revenues.

          A quote from Thatcher was used. I was born in the UK and Thatcher was a moron and so were her stupid policies along with the idiot ‘economics’ of that fool Milton Friedman. Under Thatcher the UK went backwards, deindustrialised and became a bastion of the stupid and greedy bankers while other countries moved forward. The same thinking has now happened to the US on a truely grand scale – the bankers rule and are shafting the people of the US.

          I’ve been to the US and there is a lack of understand of the ‘term’ socialism. The US is NOT socialist and nor is Obama – the US is ‘Statist’, a Kleptocracy, or a Plutocracy….a country ruled by a narrow wealthy elite which uses the State and its resources to further their gains (not for the benefits of the people) – reduced taxes for the wealthy, less worker protection, lowered living standards and pay (look at the crap jobs on offer now), no benefits for the poor and unprotected……this is now a short step to Fascism. Obama is merely doing the work of his sponsors and they are not the people. Who you elect is irrelevant – Obama again, or one of the many nutters from the right as nothing will change.

          Finally, while you bleat on about the small amount of resources that the US actually spends on its poor and vulnerable reflect on what $29Trillion could have done for the US in terms of alternative policies – infrastructure regeneration, investment in productive capacity, debt forgives, keeping people in their homes, etc.

          Instead the US economy is a now slow motion train crash as debt funded consumerism is dead and full employment will never return. You are no use to ‘them’ anymore as you cannot carry more debt and you are no good as consumers as you have no money to spend. You (the people) are just an unfunded balance sheet cost.

          • I agree with the overall premise of your comment, but I believe that the majority of those commenting here don’t qualify under your assertion that:

            “You all fall for the media propaganda – the so called ‘liabilities’ to which you refer are actually the only ones funded from tax revenues.”

            However, you “hit-the-nail-on-the-head” with:

            “the US is ‘Statist’, a Kleptocracy, or a Plutocracy….a country ruled by a narrow wealthy elite which uses the State and its resources to further their gains (not for the benefits of the people) – reduced taxes for the wealthy, less worker protection, lowered living standards and pay (look at the crap jobs on offer now), no benefits for the poor and unprotected……this is now a short step to Fascism. Obama is merely doing the work of his sponsors and they are not the people. Who you elect is irrelevant – Obama again, or one of the many nutters from the right as nothing will change.” 🙂

          • When in human history have socialism and kleptocracy ever been distinguishable from one another?

            If you’re still in the YewKay, you can clearly see what Islam intends for the Europe and the rest of the world. Returning women to the status of cattle. Murdering your own children if they presume to question your religion.

            Is that not worth fighting against?

            • Well put Coach. A rose by any other name is still a rose. No matter the term (socialism, fascism, communism,etc…) it is still about control for a few and enslavement for the rest.
              Everything about what is happening (our gov’t, Islam, the NWO) is to remove “We the People”. And yes, it is worth fighting against. Death by a thousand paper cuts,
              that’s how they are attacking us, “We the People”.
              Victory is attainable only (as with our founding fathers)through prayer and repentence.
              Stay in His grace.

            • Islam is the greatest threat to the world. They are trying to build a caliphate and there will be war in Middle East within a year. Israel will strike Iran, oil will skyrocket and the western economies will collapse and go to war. Every Christian shoulc read The Islamic Antichrist, by Joel Rosenberg

            • Exactly. Socialism and kleptocracy are synonyms. I live in Chicago, and I know. Has been this way since Robespierre. The crooks, cronies, czars and corruptocrats of socialism throw us poor, unwashed masses a few bones (also earned from the work of others), and try to keep the masses happy.

            • Women will return to the “status of cattle,” if by that you mean home-makers, mothers, and nurses. I think that is a pretty bad interpretation on your part. When the SHTF, we’ll all be forced to get back to real work.

              There will be no more boy-toys with shaved chests either. We won’t be able to afford any more of the artificial hollywood/feminist/bankster crap. We’ll all have to roll up our sleeves and get to work. And I would be very wary about getting between any of the “cattle” and the livelihood of their “cubs.”

              Just sayin’

          • Very Astute. Well said.

          • A socialist gov. is a statist gov.

          • No one wants to admit to the “statist” label because that is awfully close to fascism, which is the path the USA had been on the past few decades. Is there anything we’ve done recently that Germany didn’t do in the 30’s? What the US has spent decades building up to, Germany achieved in eight or so years. Legislation is already on the books, or,on the shelf awaiting a crisis. now the govt and elites just need an excuse to execute on the plan. They are too self centered to burn the reichstag, so what do you suppose the trigger will be? I see a kristallnacht against someone coming up.

        • And what part of that pie are you eating?

          • I’m not taking a damn thing from this mafia we call a gov. I don’t even file my taxes anymore so I don’t even get a tax refund(which is someone else’s money because I’d get back more than I ever paid in)

            I have seen my father get soaked for years and now a few of my bothers get hammered with taxes and it makes me sick. Then I would get tax rebate checks in the mail when W. Bush was president. REBATES??? I’m poor, I would always get more back in taxes than I paid for the year. And then I get I saw this as my families money. It’s sick how the gov. redistributes the money.

            So I’ve woken up and not eating any or the pie. I hope others will too.

        • the social security benefits I have accumulated are NOT, an entitlement. These funds were forcefully removed from my paychecks for over 40 years. This money belongs to me. But realistically, I don’t ever expect to see much, if any of it. Am I a socialist for wanting what I have earned, what I have actually paid into?
          Unfortunately, everyone will soon discover that they are toally on their on. If you don’t have it in your own physical possession, you don’t have it, whatever that asset may be.
          I can not believe the stupidity of so many folks, that think they have the law to protect their pensions. This law, hasn’t been working to good so far, has it? I personally know people who work for the government, and think their pensions are secure. They are clueless to the crimes being committed under their very noses. They think the law wil protect their interests. If they would just research it a little, they would find out the laws are being passed to take their money, not protect it. The stupidity of these folks is truly amazing. I guesss that’s why they call them sheeple.

          • Hear, hear! Absolutely correct. Money was stolen (taken from me without my permission) for over 35 years. Now that I am 62, I am authorized to take some of it back… and I am doing just that! I would have been shickled titless not to have had to pay into this socialist program in the 1st place but they did not give me that choice. It would have found a very comfortable home in my 401k plan where it would have earned 10-12% instead of the bogus 2% (so they say) in those “special US treasury bonds”. If they are so special, why haven’t they kept up with inflation?

          • The Court decided, in Flemming v. Nestor (1960), that “entitlement to Social Security benefits is not a contractual right”. It is an entitlement

            That fact that you paid a welfare tax does not make it an investment that you own any more than paying a property tax means you personally own the county courthouse. If this were true, those who paid nothing into the plan, would receive nothing out of it. My grandmother, for example, received this entitlement for thirty years without every paying a single dime “in.” You might surprised to learn that when social security became law in 1935, those who qualified immediately started receiving benefits without ever contributing anything.

            When I was a child, my parents used to complain about people driving their Cadillac to the welfare office. Today my parents are collecting welfare (social security) and driving a Cadillac.

            • Prepared Pastor, I respectfully disagree with you –

              Social Security is not an Entitlement Program – that’s a lie, being one of many spread through the Internet and the “main-stream” news media outlets.

              Just because a court rules a certain way, doesn’t necessarily give it credence. Sometimes we need to read, ponder upon, and make our own mind up about something using logical reasoning and common sense.

              The ONLY people that this would be considered an entitlement to are the people who have not paid into the system but are receiving benefits.

              All the good and law-abiding people who were forced to pay into the system receive a yearly statement showing what they’ve contributed and what they’ll get back at their preselected retirement age – to them, it is NOT AN ENTITLEMENT PROGRAM but a retirement program that they paid some of their hard-earned money into!!!

              Read the following:


          • Just ask the folks who were invested via MF Global, if anyone wants corroboration of the above.


            PS: re. those comments about Ron Paul being taken out by the monied fascists. Paul is a true hero, and patriot who would be willing, I think, to take the risk. I think there are a lot of people who would. However, the battle now is **education and information dissemination,*** and blogs like this one do an incredible job.

            As Churchill wrote – and at which point we are at again -“Still, if you will not fight for the right when you can easily win without bloodshed, if you will not fight when your victory will be sure and not so costly, you may come to the moment when you will have to fight with all the odds against you and only a precarious chance for survival. There may be a worse case. You may have to fight when there is no chance of victory, because it is better to perish than to live as slaves.”

          • unfortunately, SS benefits ARE an entitlement. It was set up as a welfare program, under the appearance of an insurance program. The money you “put in” was simply a tax, like any other tax. The money you get is simply a payment like any other payment from the guv. The only thing that actually makes it not an entitlement is that they can refuse to give it to you whenever they want! 🙂

        • A very very close and longtime acquaintance of mine works for the Riverside Co. Sherriff’s office (Calif.) for 30 years and this is not the first time I have heard of this shortage. Just haven’t heard these numbers. She is under CalPERS, and she is worried. She said the senior staffers are and have been taking a strategic retirement. So to say, get out now while the getting is good. She made reference to the Rats are the first to scurry off of a sinking ship. Everybody knows what they are doing. She said that there are going to be at least 800 sworn and no sworn personal flat laid off in the coming months. Their hours have been cut back and forced days off. She quizzed about my weaponry stores and said are you heavy? I said yup, a pile. She said; It’s going to get wild around here if they take out all of these Deputies and people will have to defend their on their own and I have no doubt, “they will.” About two and a half years ago she and I were talking and she mentioned she was a member of SEIU. (Service employee’s international union, the purple and yellow shirts) I kind of gigged her and asked how’s that working out for you? She said she was dicked, between SEIU, the county the state, we’re done. She said after 30 years I am going to be standing here waiting for a rocket shot.

        • DoubleTap,

          The problem I have with your post is, calling S.S. a entitlement. Now sir and you may correct me if I’m wrong but the people have funded this program for many yrs so how can you possible call it a entitlement? You also said that no man can claim another mans propety. So if we paid into this fund how is claiming our own money wrong? I personally don’t want any mans property aka money, But I will fight for what is mine! Entitlement I don’t think so. My freakin $$$ you damn straight it is..


          • @DPS & Greaseman

            What I’m trying to say is we have been lied to and ripped off by the gov. What you say is yours is already gone. How far in debt is the Federal gov. today…15.1 trillion? So how much money is there? None. It’s a ponzi scheme. So for you or I to get any money from the ponzi scheme the gov. has to go further into debt to pay you. Who will end up paying? Our kids and grandkids that aren’t even working or born today. The scheme has to end and it will. So let’s be honest with ourselves and realize we aren’t going to get anything (well, depending on how old you are) I don’t plan on getting anything. What I have paid in is gone. And I’m not going to b.s. myself and say that it’s my money. The thieves in gov. haven’t stashed away your nest egg for you. Your money has been spent before you even paid it.

            I want the b.s. ponzi shceme to end more than I want any money from the gov. Therefore, I’ll forgo any s.s. that I have paid into the system. But if you’re wanting “your money” back then I can only conclude that you want to keep the ponzi scheme going and want it to crash on the back of someone else. I’m not playing this bullshit game any longer. I don’t want to pass the buck onto my daughter or anyone else. We all need to end it and take the bitter pill now.

            I think we agree more than we disagree. But I’m no Bill Shakespeare so I’m sure I’m not making my point clear. Then again, maybe we don’t agree.

            • I think you make a fine point. I am 53 and simply plan to live off the land in the future, thats my retirement plan.

      4. “has a 82% chance of a budget shortfall in the next 16 years.” What “species” of “analyst” would put such a prediction in print in the economic enviornment that currently exist? Is this a “prediction” meaning 16 years after the “recovery” cough,cough, of the soon-to-come market/dollar bust!?!

        WOW, I am consistently amazed by the “professional” number manipulators and prognosticators.

        • yeah I think it (the time frame) would be more like 16 months!

      5. The danger is the statement collapse proof assets such as gold and silver. What became clear is that negative correlation went by the wayside and hence g and s may be brought down since scheme is all asset classes are being systematically destroyed. It would be foolish to apprehend this statement to cure the current defect. Better still would be time place and skill while diversification into core life assets is the new diversity asset classes so in the end it all will depend on that particular moment since we all know what’s coming so fools gold is in fact real gold if thats what your counting on at the moment of your need.

      6. With the value of our money declining at such a fast pace, people are running around trying to get the best value with the money they still have.

        The government pensions, social security, medicare, welfare and ssi will all soon be figments of our own imagination. In other words, non existant!

        That is way it is so important for Americans, and citizens all around the world, to get the idea that money has ANY VALUE right out of their heads. Money has no value.

        The government uses money as a way to manipulate and manuver its populace.

        The most important items on your list should be:

        BOL owned free and clear.

        Preps such as food, medical, protection, shelter and clothing.

        And the most IMPORTANT ITEM: The ability to look at your world with a whole new attitude. Free up you imagination right now and figure out how you are going to live without money that has no value.

        What do you have to offer your community that is of value and what direction can your community move in that will benefit all?

        A closely nit and functioning community is going to be of more value to you and yours, then money will ever have.

        Start thinking out of the box, because that box that the government has shoved its citizens in is burning to the ground right now! All around us it’s burning.

        God bless and keep on prepping.

        • you have said it! and you are absolutely right. old and young, we are all in this mess together and we all are gonna have to do our part. we can grumble all we want to about what is or has been taken from us, and we can demand our government do something about it, but it will likely not get us anywhere, until we take the steps to take care of ourselves.

        • I like your attitude and I like your post, but please tell me what BOL means. My house is free and clear, but I couldn’t reconcile it with the acronym.

          • ScoutMotto,

            BOL bug out location

      7. If it’s a problem in Greece, it will be a problem here. When you run out of other people’s money that’s WTSHTF. I’m against any form of social security and welfare when the individual didn’t pay a dime into the system. There’s plenty of double dipping going on in the public sector, and that should be stopped. All public employee unions – they should be dismantled now!

        • i am with you on the “double-dipping”…there is more than alot of it going on and by state and federal employees…a lot of disability payments are going out to folks who can work and wont…same with unemployment insurance/compensation.. many of these people need to be cut off and learn to do for themselves.

          • “a lot of disability payments are going out to folks who can work and wont…same with unemployment insurance/compensation.. many of these people need to be cut off and learn to do for themselves.”

            Great observation and very true. Knowing this, changing it will not be easy, as this is the primary way the Liberals “Buy Votes” .

            • @fliteking:
              You said the truest thing I have read on this site.

            • “a lot of disability payments are going out to folks who can work and wont…same with unemployment insurance/compensation.. many of these people need to be cut off and learn to do for themselves.”

              Unfortunately those that have worked for decades and paid into the system and are now truly unable to work at their trade will be lumped into the same category as the lazy thief that is scamming the system. It is too late for the ones that manage such programs to do their jobs and to ensure that the benefits are only for legal American citizens that paid for it as an insurance policy. They now find the company blew all the money it was supposed to set aside to pay the claims to buy votes from the lazy and the illegal aliens. (yeah, they vote.)

        • What about the children that survive when parents get killed? Think first. Did they pay in? Admit it, you voted Dem and you’re seeing the light.

          • Let’s take that one step further—what about the woman that broke her back in a car wreck, and is now drawing disability AND her 9 year old daughter draws a check, even though the father of the daughter works and lives in the household.

            Ouch–I CAN NOT believe this crap!!

          • the children that survive when parents get killed should be raised be members of their parents families just like they were before SSI and sleezy lawyers got involved.

            • Yes, indeed – and I speak from experience. My father died of cancer in the late 1950s when my sister and I were young; as a result, my mother was faced with huge medical bills and a house payment she could no longer afford to make. She had two options: 1.accept state aid (what welfare used to be called), or 2.move back home with her parents. Her proud German heritage considered ANY help from the government to be disgraceful. So we packed up and moved 12 miles away to my grandparents home, where love and security (and German cooking!) awaited. She found a job and went to work knowing that her daughters were being well cared for.

      8. P.S. What also makes it worse than ever, more and more businesses are leaving California. A waste management company in Sacramento is leaving in 2 weeks – they are headed for Dallas, TX. It’s a loss of hundreds of jobs and millions of dollars in tax revenue and to charities as well. The company is leaving because California is not a friendly state to do business with and too many rules and regulations. I don’t blame them for leaving.

        • You are right, Conservatives with Businesses and property in California are at the whim of the free spending liberals, the party may soon be over.

          • Yes, the “party” WILL be over as everyone finally realizes that it is conservatism that is self-supporting and liberalism that is not. At that point, all of the Makers will leave Calif. and leave it to the Takers. They, however, will not have anyone who Makes to pillage any more. Calif. will become a 3rd world pest-hole. Yes, it sucks to be them. Like their cousins in the USSR, they will all sit around on their asses, waiting for someone else to create something of value that they can all then share. Not gonna be happening any more, folks. Deal with it.

        • Goldenfoxx – you are right. And, I don’t understand the level of stupidity exercised in Calf’s state government – they and other governments just don’t get it. I remember back in the late 70’s and early 80’s, a lot of big businesses left New York (most went to Texas) because of the high taxes on businesses and individuals. Now (and this started in the 90’s) businesses are leaving Calif for the same reason – way too high taxes. When businesses leave a state it not only adversely affects their tax receipts but it adversely affects their job market which, in turn, adversely affects their housing market and real estate tax receipts.

          As our dear friend, Forrest Gump once said “stupid is as stupid does!”

          • the california government officials do get it. They just don’t care. They think the party is going to go on forever. Anyone with a brain knows it’s just a matter of time before it all collapses. Look at what happened in Birmingham ALA. The whole county declared bankruptcy. And this default was no small potatoes.Cal will go under. of that , there can be no doubt.

            • I’m betting that Calif will not go under because big brother (the fed) will come to the rescue, just like they did with the banks, AIG, GE, General Motors, etc.

        • And that’s been going on for years. Fifteen years ago my brother-in-law was jerry-building houses in Littleton Colorado. He told me then that many of his buyers were people who’d sold out in CA, maybe for $500K, moved to Colorado WITHOUT A JOB, bought one of his firetraps for $250K, and lived on the rest while they re-assembled their lives.

        • I have heard that as far as being business-friendly, Ohio sucks worse than Cali.

        • Yeah, funny you posted that. I moved my business to Texas several years ago from CA. Not a month goes by that I don’t say to myself “glad I got the hell out of there”. Had one of those moments today when I bought a wood burning stove that had in big letters posted on the side of the crate “Not For Sale In California”.

          • Bill J, good for you – you made the right choice. During 2009 and 2010, almost one-half of the new jobs created in the USA were created in Texas. I believe it’s quite possible that one day we will see the state of Calif becoming one giant national park. The people living in Calif just don’t get it or don’t want to, especially the politicians and the movie-making crowd.

      9. I live in Florida,,, Whats a pension?

        I hate unions I think they should all go away. Its NOT FAIR!

        I have to fund my OWN 401k,, NO FREAKIN PENSIONS HERE!!

        They have to pay just a few % of their pay to get full salaries for life??


        I work every day just like you union crybabies.

        I hope TSHTF, and you union babies suck it.

        • Greeting Everyone!
          I was going to rant about some of the things said here….
          But I realized that the system is completely broken,ruined beyond repair by greed and the Godless “me-only” mentality.It’s a world-wide phenomenon.The World-wide Great Depression,Modern Edition,is coming.It’s a slowly sinking Titanic,and we are ALL on board,in one level of cabins or the other.The few lifeboats are heavily guarded and have a “reserved” card on them for the UBER-RICH only.The only question remains,what is the color of YOUR life-jacket?I heard the water is a touch cold and there Sharks.
          THE CHANGE is Coming at last!
          Best to all,
          Hope your life jacket is nearby.

      10. I am very surprised the US has not descended into Civil War by now!!?? The American Revolution and the Civil War were fought for lesser grievances than the people of today face.

        • Yes, the Revolution was about being taxed too much for tea and stamps ect. And the Civil War was all about States Rights! (They changed the reason for the Civil War later. Freeing the Slaves had a better moral tone to it than allowing States to have rights)
          Today of course, we are taxed on everything, not just tea and stamps. And these days we have no rights at all, let alone individual States Rights that the folks back in the 1860’s were moaning about. Add on to that all the other misery we are shackled with and effectively we’ve ALL become slaves! But of course all the Slaves were freed 150 years ago and to even consider a moral tone on slavery today is a tabu subject.
          We just can’t win really.

      11. The sorry fact, regardless of the reckless performances in California, everybody on a non-Government pension is in deeo doo-doo, becuase their pension fund was invested on the assumption that they’d get 5% or more on the money. With the Fed’s ZIRP, the best you can get without breathtaking risk, (or illegal behaviour), is more like 2.5%, so the pension funds are shrinking rapidly.

        • Boy, do I need to proofread before I post !

      12. Don’t worry it well all ne over soon then its back to happy times.
        Hey look free koolaid hahahaha.

      13. Mac, good article on before its news.called quick start preparedness for newbies.

        • thx Iowa, will check it out.

      14. When my retirement account mostly rebounded after the crash, I borrowed out the maximum and bought Silver Eagles for $18 each which is a non-taxable/non-penalty event. I rolled over my Roth IRA to a self-directed one that allowed my to invest in rural real estate. If I don’t pay my annual fee, it automatically triggers a distribution. Hopefully, this will protect at least some of my savings from confiscation.

      15. Go contribute to Ron Paul Money Bomb!!!

      16. My sister live’s out in the sunny State of California. She say’s if we loose it all at least they can get drunk and stoned.

        • for free?

      17. Oh goody, just what we all need. What would we do without regulators…

      18. Ah yes Calexico will hit the skids a little before the rest of us catches up to their skid marks. I am sure Moon Beam MC Brown will lead them to the golden arches of infamity.he almost ruined the state last time he was governor this time he will finish the job.

      19. Reminds me of the song “You’re No Good” as sung by Linda Ronstadt with Gov. Moonbeam in charge “again”. She’s gained just a lil wait and he’s lost a lil hare. Bush bailed out Kaliforn-i-a years ago for the sperminator. Do you think they will be hole again the second time around? But hey, they lead the way and the Liberalism comes East.

      20. Look who’s running the state….. Dem, libs, f-in tree huggers and homo’s

        • @COF:
          you are so entirely right!!!!!!!!

        • NOBODY can blow other people’s cheaks better than a DimLib. Barney Frank is the master. Timing is everything and Moore in re-tire-ment.

        • The moral character of those passing the laws speaks volumes on the condition of their state. it would take turning around the moral character of the people before the government could be changed for the better. Right the population at large is so immoral, they would feel too ashamed to vote for someone who does not represent their personal vice. People naturally feel more approved in their vices when others are doing likewise.

        • You know, guys n gals, one of these freakin’ days we all really should just accept the fact that liberalism, in all its ugly guises, blows chunks, always has, and always will wherever, whenever, and by whomever it is tried. WE CAN STOP EFFIN TRYIN’ IT NOW!

        • You forgot illegals and their supporters. Illegals cost this state a whopping 20+ BILLION per year. They are the perfect tool for the Dems and Libs to vote for higher taxes so they can continue to get their freebies and vote to take my gun rights away.

          When Reagan was gov, people used to move here just to put their kids in our most excellent schools. Now they are moving out to get away from them.

          I pulled my kids out of their elementary school this past Friday in protest of the school singing only ONE out of three Christmas songs in English. The other two were to be sung in spanish.

          Mexico has taken over without firing a single shot. If I’d had my way, I would have left the state YEARS ago. I have a ten year plan to be outta here by then and believe me, California is not the hill I’m gonna die on even tho I’v lived here my whole life!

        • thx TC.

          • ..and thank you, for your wonderful site…

            We check it about 6 times a day for your well written updates..

        • I do hope our indigenous “LEO’S” are watching scenes such as this one posted by TotalCollapse. Guess what boys-n-girls in blue/brown or whatever color that have sold your souls to protect TPTB. We won’t be throwing rocks, we will be slinging lead. Bank on it!

        • Thanks for sharing this.

          Those in the US should take note: all of that political correctness, where people are afraid to speak out against gays or feminists for fear of “hurting their feelings,” or bearing their vengeful reprisal, will find that police or military will not care if you are gay, or feminist, or muslim, or atheist, or whatever politically-protected group one feels they are part of.

          Just as these police and soldiers in Egypt did not care, they will not care in the US either. An iron hand is immune to the fear of political incorrectness. You could accuse them of anti-semitism, and it won’t matter. You could be part of the most sensitive and prominent political group, and the military under martial law will mow you down in a flash. There will be no trial, or your lawyer calling their lawyer. You will be an obstacle they will simply wipe off the map.

          Those of us with our heads in reality already realize these things.

          • Indeed we do… which is why we never bought into the feminization of boys, the asininity of political correctness, or the dumbing down process in the US school system. I guess that it is just easier to herd those sheep if there are no RAMS in the flock.

        • THEY ARE MAKING AN EXAMPLE OF HER… FOR THE WHOLE WORLD TO SEE… saying this is what happens when you Rebel against OUR NWO Facist Authority… Eqypt is a cia trained , amerikan AIPAC SPLC/ israel ZIONISTJEW financed puppet state , these soldiers are only doing as they were told to do and also trained to do by our very own american cia run u s army school of the america’s! , fort benning georgia …

          The same thing has happened to every country AMERICA has invaded and ENSLAVED for Profit… for you Americans to ba able to maintain your american dreams!

          Just as all YOUR LOCAL POLICE ARE NOW BEING TRAINED TO DO with your tax money IN f’ing ISRAEL! – TRUTH!

          This goes on every day in the gaza strip and palestine by the bloody hands of the american tax payer supported israeli zionistjews… the same zionistjews who blew up the ny 9/11 wtc twin towers!

          see where i’m going here…

          this will soon be happening here in america… continuously!

          get use to it!

          none of you… will live unscathed as the nwo completes it’s global banking empire… the de-industrialization is intentional… the loss of jobs is intentional… the loss of home mortgages is intentional… the loss of pensions is intentional… it’s called soft kill eugenics! ya’ll sheeple can’t breed if you have no jobs no homes no viable food or clean water! Look up CODEX ALIMENTARIUS…

          see your future…

          you all have three choices too make!

          1.) join the nwo and help them with the controlled destruction of the industrial world and institute a worldwide eugenics kill program… join the police, military, politician etc etc… They plan to kill off 90% of you by the way!
          2.) or become a husk of what you once were , hide and be slowly bleed out of every penny you’ve earned in your life and slowly become PRIMAL or you wont survive the decline into barbarism!
          3.) or FIGHT…


          Fight or Die… you do have a choice after all!

          • @usmarines / jd … sorry dude … I may never be able to claim the prestigeous title of “LeatherNeck” , I though was fully trained by the us airforce us army and the us marine corps as a K-9 Combat LE / SF Patrolman ABGB and Jungle Warfare… ;0) Making me an Educated Dirt Eatin’ Grunt! An too be honest I look forward to the day some asshole tries to BLACK BAG me at Night! They’ll learn what the .45/70 is capable of real fast as I sleep with mine like a lover and I know for a fact even dragonskin BPV’s can’t stop the force of my lil’ baby! So as much as I appreciate your warnings for my safety… I say F’em! The Truth is My Shield! And the day they do come for me will be glorious indeed! ;0) We all gotta die sometime… and I a “Scotts” prefer it be battle against the NWO than of old age in a FEMA CAMP!

            If you are a REAL dirt eatin’ US MARINE you’ll KNOW where I’m speaking from!

            PHUCK the NWO! It’s time we SHUT THEM ALL DOWN PERMANENTLY!

            • ninaorket:

              it is unfortunate that there are too few of the likes of you and usmarines..

              Most are incapable of cognitive thought and will watch the destruction from their 42″ led screen numbed to sheer complacency..and will most likely put their hands up for shackles if promised a 6 pack and all day/night sports tv at the camp..

              As the pensioners retire to find their monies gone..they will be too old and tired to revolt..or react..

              Most likely the feds have already “contracted” unknown numbers of private”security” forces to quell the masses that do revolt given the uncertainty of support by the troops overall..afterall there are close to 50k plus “private” security now in Iraq replacing the troops leaving..perhaps you might have more insight to this than I regarding the hidden numbers here stateside..

              semper fi


        • … ya’ll hopefully do realize egypt is a vassel state of israel/ england and amerikan cia … your tax dollars at work folks … makes one PROUD TO BE AN AMERICAN … this happens in all countries the united facist zionist states of amerika brings debt slavery=FREEDOM too … your future showed in raw color america … welcome to the new world order!

          THEY ARE BEING BRUTAL TO SHOW US ALL WHATTA HAPPEN TO US IF WE PROTEST AND OFFER RESISTANCE… this is taught in the school of americas at fort benning georgia… our america run and paid for us army cia dictator school.

          coming soon too a town near you…

          • ninaorket,

            In the previous article you wrote that the pes sign s1867 would you mind posting the link for your source?


      21. as deewight yokam says
        “the LATE great golden state”.god have mercy on there souls. i damn sure can’t.anybody stupid enough to elect mrs. feinstein multiple times deserves to be hoisted by their own petard.

      22. Mac – I know – it’s astonishing how many traitors voted for the NDAA. Why so many? As you noted above, the legislation is probably already written to confiscate private retirement accounts – they’re just waiting for the right time to “unleash” this monster. They must have promised all the (non) representatives a portion of the billions of dollars that will be confiscated with this bill IF they voted for the NDAA – “vote for the NDAA, and when the National Retirement Kleptocracy Act becomes law, you will get millions of dollars per year for life.”

        • “They must have promised all the (non) representatives a portion of the billions of dollars that will be confiscated with this bill IF they voted for the NDAA…”

          Hell-fire, man. Ya gotta think BIG! There are over 12 TRILLION dollars in 401Ks, IRAs, 459s, and 403Bs. And TPTB are slobbering all over themselves just thinking of dipping into that honey-pot.

      23. Establish a legally documented lien, filed at the appropriate court house(s), on “state and/or federal congressman and /or senators of the past and the present to secure your quite possible disappearance of the social
        security and/or disability that you have involuntarily paid into the system for several decades—as a good little slave, and have no recourse but to do the above. ——better sooner than later. forward this plan to your “elected representative oath-taking……” We could
        elaborate on the Fort Knox fairy tale, but we all know the tall tale.

      24. Do life guards in “go left young man” land still make $70K with pension?

        • No Harry, they make over 200K

      25. I’m a California community college instructor who is about 20 years from retirement. I currently contribute over $1K/mo. to CALSTRS, and am required to do so by law. Do I think I will ever see any of the hundreds of thousands of dollars that I will have contributed by the time I’m 65? Honestly, no. Solution? Keep working until I die. Could be worse, though. At least I’m employed.

        • The good news, Ken, is that you probably won’t have to put up with this for as long as you now think. It won’t be all that long until even the morons who run Calif realize that they have well and truly eaten the Golden Goose and that, therefore, there will be no more eggs from here on in. Expect riots, burning, looting, rape, and all manner of insurrection to break out at that time. Best of luck riding it out as it will be very ugly.

      26. The ‘pensioners’ are welcome to join me in my scorpion
        and rattlesnake infested desert retirement home. It’s a
        short drive out I-40 to Gold Nugget Road, in Arizona. I
        hear it’s all the rage in the winter, with R.V.’s every-
        where. If you haven’t got yourself a motor home yet,
        now’s as good a time as any!

        Was reading article tonight OCRegister about the retire-
        ment dilemma in Kali. Raise taxes, increase contributions,
        they’ll try anything to keep the ponzi going. Dog forbid
        they stop giving away all the taxpayer money to keep
        all the illegal aliens in warm homes, great schools,
        and superb free healthcare!

        • …no.

      27. “Democrats in the Senate on Thursday held a recess hearing covering a taxpayer bailout of union pensions and a plan to seize private 401(k) plans to more “fairly” distribute taxpayer-funded pensions to everyone.”

        So in other words the money paid as a corporate benefit to match peoples’ personal savings contributions for their retirement will simply be taken away from those to whom it was paid, and given to those who haven’t even worked for said corporation. More government theft from those who earned to those who did not. turning their 401K into more like a 201K. This is not “taxing the rich.” This is stealing from those who earned it by virtue of their presence and dedication to a company.

      28. A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.

        We are in the loose fiscal policy stage, with dictatorship preparing to take over. This is that “hope and change” poeple voted for in 2008.

        • “It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury.”

          That can only happen when the non-productive people in a society are allowed to vote. Those who are productive and who actually support the treasury have some inkling of what idiotic spending is all about and will not vote for those who promote it.

      29. Just read that Kim Jong II has died. Wonder how/if things will change in North Korea?

        • Maybe its a coup by the Generals.

          • His son is a 4 star general that never served in the military. Father dies of being over worked,,,,,,,, right! Probably choked on his lobster and after dinner sex & cigar during a movie on train.

            I wonder if the little dwarf got any pre Christmas precious metals while they were on sale before he expired. He got out easy…….

        • Anoylady,

          I don’t think much will change for north korea. I’m sure they already have a plan for the gov. after his death.


          • Meet the new boss. Same as the old boss.

        • My guess is that they will surprise the entire world by getting even worse off than before.

        • I was thinking they will approach the West with the song and dance of how they want to have better relations and how they are going to liberalize , and of course the West will jump for joy and pour in the aid, and NK will drag it’s feet and revert to type in a few years after milking us for billions.

      30. The son that is taking over is much younger and may have ambitions that lead to a full on war on the Korean peninsula. Something like that may be the straw that breaks the fragil back of the global economy. All ready all of the Asian markets are down because of the news.

      31. Never let a manufactured crisis go to waste…

      32. @durango kidd

        “Scott Motto: Suggest you open your mind to the truth, before you open your mouth: silver is not a precious metal by any stretch of the imagination.

        All of the precious metals are many hundreds of dollars per oz. Silver less than $30 today. That should be a clue to even the most closed minded among you. It is not a precious metal.

        Do some research.

        CalPers is also one of the best managed pension funds in the country; and branched out into commodities like metals, some years back if I remember correctly.”

        I am not interested in how YOU define a precious metal. Your statements are subjective at best. Like yourself, everyone has an opinion, and you know what they say about those.

        • Scoutmotto:” Suggest you open your mind to the truth, before you open your mouth/I am not interested in how YOU define a precious metal”…..
          May I recommend YOU self-apply with alacrity your very nearly sagacious yet bucolic bombasts and matriculate on your thoughts processes.
          It’ll do wonders for us all!

      33. Durango kidd,

        No offense but I’ll go with Wikipedia over you. Besides, there are a ton of other reliable sources that state silver is a precious metal. And, using common sense, a metal that costs around $30 for one once is a precious metal.

        Below are some of the many sources that call silver a precious metal – says:
        “Silver is a brilliant white, lustrous metal that is extremely ductile and malleable. Together with gold, iridium, palladium and platinum, it is one of the so-called “precious metals.” Usually found combined with copper or lead, silver has long been used in the manufacture of coins, ornaments and jewelry.”

        Also, Kitco, Provident Metals, Monex, and, wait for the drum roll, the Chicago Mercantile Exchange all refer to silver as a precious metal. And, guess who else refers to silver as a precious metal? Wait for the “big” drum roll, our own federal government’s “Federal Trade Commission”

        On a different matter — Can anyone explain to me how gold has managed to be valued higher than platinum when it wasn’t that long ago, platinum was valued higher than gold AND platinum is about 30 times rarer than gold. AND, platinum has traded about 64% above gold on average during the past 10 years.

        It seems either gold is overvalued or platinum is undervalued. Perhaps it’s time to trade on a spread by entering a pair trade going long on platinum and short on gold. Any traders out there?

        • RID: Gold has been THE precious metals for 10,000 years.

          Platinum wasn’t isolated until the late 1700’s and prospectors’s didn’t know what they were looking for; didn’t have the tools to ID it in nature, and didn’t have any idea what it could be used for. It is normally locked in a molecule, but native platinum has been found.

          When the Spainards discovered it in stream beds in Peru in the 1500’s, they knew it wasn’t silver but didn’t know what it was. They called it “little silver”.

          It could be another thousand years before Platinum reaches the common acceptance and appreciation for the average person that gold has achieved over millennia.

          Much of the allure of gold over platinum is its warm color when pure, clean, and polished.

          • Judas sold out Jesus for 30 pieces of siler DK.

            • Anon: Correct. But that doesn’t make silver a precious metal either.

              It tarnishes. Precious metals do not tarnish.

        • RID: Talk to a metallurgist or a chemist. Silver may be perceived by many as a “precious metal” by popular, inaccurate usage of the phrase, but silver is not scientifically, a precious metal.

          All of these “outlets” that you cite are commercial endeavors looking to sell US silver as a precious metal.

          If a $30 per oz were indicative of the price of a precious metal, then lithium would have to be included as a “precious metal” too because it’s cost is similar to that of silver.

          Its not. Neither is silver. 🙂

          • RID: On the other end of that scale, radium is about $25,000 per gram. It isn’t a precious metal either. 🙂

          • durango kidd,

            Because lithium plays an important role in batteries, our federal government is subsidizing the price of lithium and that is why it is valued so low.

            • RID: Yes because most of the producing mines are in China and WE are concerned about having enough of it as a strategic metal.

              New mines in South America, Australia, Canada, Greenland will come on line in a couple years. In the meantime, Older US mines that were mothballed are being re-opened.

              Its hard to compete with Chinese miners making a dollar a hour or less, so if We are to have an independent source for OUR military electronic industries, We will have to subsidize production until these other mines come online.

              But that doesn’t make it a “precious metal”. It makes it a “strategic metal”. 🙂

          • durango kidd, what’s with this fixation as to whether silver is a precious metal or not? Does it really matter one way or another?

            • RID: Sales is a very sophisticated profession. People are hood winked every day. Even Preppers who are by nature, skeptical.

              You name it and the GB’s and PTB have sold US a lie over and over and over again.

              If you are selling cars maybe you are selling the color or the gas mileage.

              If you are a promoter trying to sell anyone anything, you gloss over the details and push a particular perceived benefit or attribute while ignoring the facts that do not support your premise.

              Or you use a euphanism to make it politically correct. IE is it “abortion” or “choice”?

              Is FREE TRADE a FREEDOM, or is it a demonic, managed trade system designed to enrich the UR and GB’s and strip the American people of their economy?

              Is a citizen of a foreign nation who is in the US illegally, a “migrant” or is he an Illegal Alien?

              Is it “muticulturalism” or is it an attempt to dissolve the US Constitution and merge the US with Mexico under the NAU to make US “global citizens”?

              Is it “environmentalism” or is it an attempt to de-industrialize America and rationalize sending OUR manufacturing base offshore to exploit cheap foreign labor?

              Is it “global warming” or is it an attempt to tax OUR use of carbon; while simultaneously, the earth is naturally unleashing enormous quantities of methane gas from many thousands of sea vents as it has done throughout the life cycles of the planet?

              With respect to “precious metals” you are correct that all of these entities label silver a precious metal.

              This is REVISIONISM!

              Historically, even as little as 10 years ago to my knowledge, no one of any scientific stature was calling silver “precious”. It examples the corrosion of OUR financial system by the GB’s.

              What is more appealing? Buying a product that has been relabeled a “precious metal” or buying an “industrial metal”?

              Do you remember George Carlin’s famous explanation of the difference between baseball and football?

              Words make a big difference in OUR perception of people, products, and events. Its not always what is said, but how it is said.

              In the case of the video, it was what was left out that changed it from journalism to propaganda. It was crafted to spark OUR purchase.

              Words make all the difference in the world.

              One more point. I was wrong there are seven precious metals, not six. Six of these are PGM’s. The other one is gold. I have six.

              If anything, silver could be called “semi-precious” just as there are “semi precious stones”, silver could be classified as a “semi precious metal”.

              Thanks for the conversation. I hope someone benefited from the discussion.

      34. Plato covered it in “Republic” 2300 years ago. Damn I did learn something in philosophy101!

      35. States are deliberately underfunding their pension fund obligations because it’s impossible to fully fund them out of current income. It doesn’t help that state employees get six figure pensions and in many cases they’re allowed to retire, get their pension, and go right back to work. Must be nice.

      36. Instead of shooting guns into the air for Kem Jon ill’s death they shoot off a test missle.

      37. Kim died of an overdose of faux Viagra while watching a four hour porn movie and drinking cognac.

        • Wow! Really? I guess that warning on TV about calling your doctor if an erection lasts for “more than 4 hours” was serious! Never had that problem but if I did, I’d probably call a XXX talent agent. 😉

      38. on the Daily Crux this morning…

        Ten U.S. economic facts that are too crazy to believe

        “From the Economic Collapse blog, 10 items out of a list of 50 for 2011…

        #1 A staggering 48 percent of all Americans are either considered to be “low income” or are living in poverty.

        #2 Approximately 57 percent of all children in the United States are living in homes that are either considered to be “low income” or impoverished.

        #7 Since December 2007, median household income in the United States has declined by a total of 6.8% once you account for inflation.

        #13 One recent survey found that one out of every three Americans would not be able to make a mortgage or rent payment next month if they suddenly lost their current job.

        #23 As I have written about previously, 19 percent of all American men between the ages of 25 and 34 are now living with their parents.

        #26 One study found that approximately 41 percent of all working age Americans either have medical bill problems or are currently paying off medical debt.

        #30 The retirement crisis in the United States just continues to get worse. According to the Employee Benefit Research Institute, 46 percent of all American workers have less than $10,000 saved for retirement, and 29 percent of all American workers have less than $1,000 saved for retirement.

        #38 Child homelessness in the United States is now 33 percent higher than it was back in 2007.

        #41 Today, one out of every seven Americans is on food stamps and one out of every four American children is on food stamps.

        #43 A staggering 48.5% of all Americans live in a household that receives some form of government benefits. Back in 1983, that number was below 30 percent.”

        • “From the Economic Collapse blog, out of a list of 50 for 2011…

          The last 4 items on this list…

          #47 Amazingly, the U.S. government has now accumulated a total debt of 15 trillion dollars. When Barack Obama first took office the national debt was just 10.6 trillion dollars.

          #48 If the federal government began right at this moment to repay the U.S. national debt at a rate of one dollar per second, it would take over 440,000 years to pay off the national debt.

          #49 The U.S. national debt has been increasing by an average of more than 4 billion dollars per day since the beginning of the Obama administration.

          #50 During the Obama administration, the U.S. government has accumulated more debt than it did from the time that George Washington took office to the time that Bill Clinton took office.”

        • Demographics. Our demographics have changed. Look at the demographics of California 1960 and today. Then compare the difference in standards and results.

          • Bingo Fuzzy! I was born in Ca in 1970. When I was a kid growing up here, it was like a wonderful Utopia. I did not know how good I had it here…and how short lived it would be. I cannot go anywhere without hearing spanish.

      39. Fidel next? Bad things always come in three.

        Cameron: [disguised] I’m sorry, Ed, did you say you wanted to see a body?
        Ed Rooney: Yeah, that’s right, just, uh, roll his old bones on over here, and I’ll dig up your daughter. You know that’s school policy.


      41. Exciting times to be living in…I’ve been waiting for these times all my life…may we go out honorably in the fight ahead..I pray.

      42. Here is why its broke: A teacher of 17 years who paid into the pension plan on a teachers salary of 17 years who is in good with the “administration” goes on the 3 year retirement plan.

        Year 1: Assistant Deputy Principal and a pay raise from the teachers salary of say $70,000 to $90,000.

        Year 2: Deputy Principal and a pay raise to $110,000.

        Year 3: Principal and pay raise to $130,000.

        Pension pay out is based on a percentage of last year years earnings or now $110,000. They probably had a 2% at 50 retirement plan so instead of drawing the $1400 a month for life they paid into they get $2,200 a month for life thanks to the 3 year “plan.” Those are figurative the actual numbers are much higher.

      43. …within the next 16 years….HA…that’s hilarious. Sixteen years…people have NO clue how fast shit is going to happen. We’re in the middle of an exponential growth curve right now. 16 years ago we were still fairly linear but already accelerating.
        Think F-18 unrestricted climb.
        16 years ago, the landing gear had just retracted.
        Today, we’re nose up and no sign of leveling off.
        Sixteen years….people don’t even know what’s going to happen 16 minutes from now.
        The next 20 years will in no way resemble the last 20. You can bet on that. We’re at a point in history economically, technologically, and (im)morally the population of the world has not only not planned for, but could not imagine.
        Interesting times to say the least.

        • F-18 can’t increase speed in a vertical climb. Too heavy of a landing gear to land on decks. Maybe a F-15, that still works. Chuck Y. knows. As in Calc. 1, increasing increasing slope: Going down!

        • “Sixteen years…people have NO clue how fast shit is going to happen.”

          Give the man a cee-gar! When SHTF first starts, it is a lot like a keg of gun powder with a long fuse. It smokes, hisses, and gets shorter for quite a while but when the burning fuse enters the keg, LOOK OUT! The result is damn-near immediate AND devastating.

      44. Due to monetary inflation, our way of life is unsustainable. It was planned that way and implemented by the two major political parties and their handlers. So why do you think going to the polls on election day will change that? Asking the criminals to change will work? Electing Ron Paul or anyone else will save us?Really? The 2nd Amendment is there for a reason.

        • “The 2nd Amendment is there for a reason.”

          Indeed it is… and so is the phrase, “all enemies, foreign AND domestic”.

      45. California is UNIQUE. Unique because it’s the only state post-WWII to “pay” state-government bills in scrip. Unique because half of all illegal aliens in America live in California (making it unsustainable). Unique because of its socioeconomic makeup. And unique because it’s got the most generous welfare state.

        • Does this mean that when the US government finally throws up its hands and gives Calif back to Mexico, all those illegals will be back home again? 😉

      46. Read CalPERS “Comprehensive Annual Financial Report”, their yearly audit report, they have billions hidden away. Contributions are just that, contributions. Any idiot who thinks they are guaranteed a retirement check is ignorant.

        Stop Feeding The Damn Parasites!

        • Yeah… billions hidden away in their socialist cronies’ pockets. Just ask the MF Global investors what happened to their PRIVATE money.

      47. I have no pension plans. My Grandmother and Grandfather had no pension plans. We always took care of our selves.
        I’m still that way today.

        I just planted sugarcane this past weekend and baited for the feral hogs, my daughter and I deer hunted a bit and we put up some stores.

        My wife and I are discussing opsec.

        Silver and Gold, took care of that.

        No paper here.

        We have solid tangible, usefull tools, for whatevere the future holds.

        Still have to work irl and will continue.

        Am still taking care of business for the family and preparing as I was taught.

        Still working on the emergency use, ethanol fractionating columns for multiple purposes, fuel, antiseptic or for distillation of water.
        I’ll be hunting with my daughter over the holiday and also continue working on the units.

        I trust my wife, daughter, some of the extended family and select friends. Beyond that, I put my trust in God.

        Y’all take care,


        • Terry: That sounds so wonderful….Trusting in GOD,a good idea.But,when you go to the hospital and have no medicare,insurance and only the land and some PM’s.YOU ARE BONED!Fact of life in our times,unfortunately,but still a fact.One illness,injury or other problem and the “I’m living off the land like my grandparents” is a bad dream.Extended family won’t be able to begin to pay for a week or two in intensive care.Sounds good in theory though.

        • Amen Terry!
          Take care of your family and your family will take care of you. Anything you receive from the powers that be will be gravy, but don’t hold your breath.

      48. Just a few observations from reading through this. There is no way anyone can forecast 16yrs out. Too many variables in an ever changing ecomony. Iam not saying that states pensions are not in trouble. Most are.
        States that are in trouble are not in so because of Dems or Repubs, they are in trouble because of both equally. Neither the GOP or Dems have done any of us any favors, all they have done is robbed from one to give to another. BOTH parties have actively done this.
        So if there is anyone on here that believe a Romney is going to save this country you are going to be very dissappointed. They are all in that same club, they just put on a good show so we have something to argue about while having a beer in the vfw.
        Ron Paul? I hope he doesn’t win. Before you throw rocks at me. I am seriously affraid if he does he will get killed. Throughout our countries history the prominent figures that have been against central banking have died mysteriously. I think he is a good guy but I would rather see him come a little later while we are putting our country back together, not while it is falling off the cliff.
        Silver. I don’t really want to start this arguement about if it is precious or not. I don’t care. I own mine. But I look at it as a savings account that hopefully accrues interest if times get worse. When there is the next round of QE watch the value go up. Whether it is precious or not it has historically held value even before its industrial use. There is a good little company out of castle rock CO that sells bullion for those in the Denver area. Cornerstone is the name of the company for those in the colorado area, they also ship. I have no affiliation with the company but have bought from them. I like them because they don’t operate from a credit card.
        I realize that everyone is upset about entitlements. I paid in and will probably be the first generation to not see anything back. I am 41. The system has always been flawed. We outlived the money we put in. The problemis we are forced to contribute. To want what we contribute is acceptable, to assume because we contributed so we should be able to take full advantage before the cow runs dry makes us the problem.
        My personal opinion is that we collectively need to learn to not rely on the gov’t. Plan our own retirement, plan for not needing SS, medicare ect. Make our own plans that will fit our own future. Solve our own problems rather than whining to the 911 operator, or goverment entity. Live as a small community (even in a big city) and rely on neighbors rather than a gov’t service. I am by no means self sufficient, wish I was, but every year I am a bit closer.


      50. Good article, but one question: If we adopt the system above, how do we pay off all of Obumbler’s Chicago crooks, cronies, czars and corruptocrats? I mean, our socialist Dear Leaders like Jon Corzine of MF Global, Kaiser of Solyndra, Nancy Pelosi’s brother in law who had Tonopah Energy bailed out for even more than Solyndra, ad nauseam would be forced to live on caviar just 5 times a week instead of 7. Oh, the horrors!

      51. Can anyone spell A-R-G-E-N-T-I-N-A???

        • Sure – Arguitina

      52. I don’t have PM yet, still working on rule of 3, 3 seconds without security, 3 minutes without air, 3 days without water, 3 weeks without food, 3 months without tools .

        Still looking for a house or property to buy but got a lead on one. Just have to get some divine help in this market. Good luck all

      53. Greed is the only driver to innovation within a sick culture…healthier people, who want to build better communities, thrive on coupled stoichiometries.

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