Recession in 2014: “The Government Will Not Be Able to Save the Economy”

by | Dec 17, 2013 | Headline News | 335 comments

Do you LOVE America?


    Editor’s Note: The following article has been generously contributed by well known contrarian analyst and commentator Gonzalo Lira of the Lira Strategic Planning Group.

    Over the years he has put forth some incredibly astute and accurate analysis about economics, market dynamics, the machinations behind the scenes and what to expect from the global economy. As you’ll see below, Gonzalo understands the fundamentals behind what makes global commerce tick and his analysis strongly suggests the onset of a major recession in 2014. It won’t be just another “typical” 18 month cyclical recession such as those we’ve seen in the past. This time around Gonzalo notes that the Federal Reserve and U.S. government are, in essence, out of options, meaning that when the pain hits, there isn’t much with respect to policy making that can be done.

    The end result? Expect stock markets to crash, real estate prices to slide, and a self-reinforcing negative feedback loop that will further crush America’s working classes. Moreover, as Gonzalo explains, the price of everything from food to energy will likely rise as a consequence of the Fed’s inflationary monetary policy and investors fleeing to commodities as protection from financial collapse.

    Take the time to review this excellent analysis, and put your preparedness initiatives in overdrive – just in case.

    What If There’s A Recession in 2014?
    By Gonzalo Lira

    If policymakers were gunfighters, they’d be out of bullets: They have run out of effective policy tools to improve the economy.

    So the question is simple: If there is a recession in 2014, and policymakers are out of bullets, how will it play out across the American economy?


    What the Fed is looking at.

    Recently, Deutsche Bank’s Jim Reid very astutely pointed out that the current “expansion” of the U.S. economy is on its fifth year—the seventh longest in history.

    We are due for a recession.

    Now, before facing up to a possible 2014 recession, let’s ask ourselves: What happened during the last recession?

    No one can quite agree as to the specific causes of the 2007–09 recession—and fighting that particular fight isn’t the point of this essay. But we can all more or less agree that global overindebtedness caused a mini-Minsky Moment, whereby borrowers could no longer borrow enough to keep from defaulting on their previous loans. Hence September 2008. Hence the collective global “Ahhh!!!!” moment that we all recall with such sweet and fond nostalgia.

    To stave off what looked like financial and economic Armageddon, the Treasury Department first under Henry Paulson and then under Timothy Geithner, and the Federal Reserve under Ben Bernanke, basically threw money into the economy: The Treasury’s Troubled Asset Relief Program (TARP) originally authorized $700 billion to buy up toxic assets, while the Fed created the Maiden Lane vehicles, lowered interest rates to zero (zero interest-rate policy, ZIRP), and simultaneously created money by way of the various iterations of Quantitative Easing (QE).

    Combined, these Treasury and Fed programs prevented the bankruptcies of the so-called “systemically important” (a.k.a., “Too Big To Fail”) banks, and provided the U.S. Federal government with the cash to carry out the 2009 stimulus program. After all, had it not been for the Fed’s purchases of Treasury bonds by way of QE, the yields on the government’s bonds would have risen so high that the stimulus program could not have been financed, let alone the +$1 trillion deficits of 2009, 2010, 2011 and 2012.

    But screw the deficit—the Treasury and Fed measures saved everybody’s bacon. Equities crashed? Houses underwater? 401(k)’s in the toilet? Thanks to TARP, ZIRP and QE, they rebounded.

    Rather than take the hit, work out the bad loans, and organically regrow the economy, the Treasury and Fed measures were essentially morphine—or heroin—to dull the pain of the Global Financial Crisis: They made us feel great, but the disease is still there.

    Overindebtedness. Bad debts piled on top of bad debts.

    Now because of the Treasury’s and especially the Fed’s morphine/heroin drip, starting in Q3 of 2009, the American economy’s gross domestic product has been expanding, which economists hail as the end of the 2007–09 recession, and the beginning of the current “expansion”.

    (Re. the “expansion”: Nevermind that unemployment was scrapping 10% as late as Q3 of 2011, and that as of Q4 of 2013, we are still at 7% U-3 unemployment—and this U-3 figure ignores the long-term unemployed, who have simply given up, reducing the employment participation rate to historic lows, thereby skewing the real unemployment figure something awful.)

    So here we are in Q4 of 2013, staring down the barrel of 2014, suspecting—fearing—that we might have a recession staring right back at us.

    Question: What could the Federal government and the Federal Reserve realistically do, to avert a recession in 2014? Or if not avert it, at least ameliorate its effects?

    Oh boy . . .

    Insofar as the Federal government is concerned, realistically,nothing. In 2008, facing what appeared to be the end of the financial world, Congress was snookered into agreeing to the Bush Administration’s $700 billion TARP bailout. Then in 2009, the incoming Obama Administration had two winds at its back—the Global Financial Crisis, which required the incoming administration to do something, anything; and the fact that Obama was the new prez, who’d won decisively with his deceptive talk of “hope”. Thus the $787 billion stimulus package.

    Combined, the Bush TARP and the Obama stimulus were some $1.5 trillion mainlined into the American economy.

    Today, five years after his inauguration, and after the Government shutdown and the botched Obamacare launch, Obummer just doesn’t have the pull. More to the point, the Democratic caucus does not trust him. So Democrats on the Hill will not stick their necks out for an Obama stimulus program. So the O-Administration’s economic brain trust might come up with all sorts of plans to preëmptively stop a 2014 recession—but they don’t have the votes to make these plans happen.

    As to a repeat of the Henry “Give-us-all-your-money-or-the-banks-will-die!” Paulson scare tactics—they won’t work today, not after the nasty taste left by the one in 2008.

    So macro-economically speaking, Barack Obama is walking around with an empty peashooter: He can’t even wave the threatof using it without seeming foolish.

    Turning now to the Federal Reserve: They might be packing a big ol’ .45 Magnum, but they are most definitely out of bullets. They can’t lower interest rates any further than they have—what are they going to do, start charging people who deposit money in banks? This is the problem with hitting the lower bound: You can’t go any lower than ZIRP. At best, the Fed could expand QE even further, and buy up even more Treasury debt. But then any impact from more QE will be marginal, assuming it has any effect at all.

    So if the Federal government and the Federal Reserve are essentially out of bullets, what’s going to happen to us law-abiding citizens when the Big Bad Recession comes rolling into town?

    First off, no one can seriously or responsibly doubt that a recession will not come. Even if the American economy by some miracle manages to sneak through 2014 with positive numbers, a downturn will hit in 2015 anyway. Don’t believe me? Check out this chart:

    Click to enlarge

    I have grounded, non-orthodox reasons to think that a recession will hit in 2014, reasons which I will expand upon during my live presentation next Thursday (see here). But even if you don’t buy my heterodox reasons, the orthodox business cycle would confirm that a recession is on its way.

    So to weather it, you’d have to know what’s going to happen.

    A basic outline is pretty clear:

    Stocks will take the brunt of the beating, once recession-fever hits—after all, equities are floating on nothing but QE, and everybody knows it.

    Bonds won’t do so well either, at least not corporate issuance. Treasury bonds will continue trending with flat yields, if only because the Federal Reserve will probably signal that it will continue (or even expand) QE. Treasury bonds will also continue high because of a simple safe-haven play . . . but there won’t be the sense of today’s Treasuries being the rock-solid Treasuries of yore: There will be more volatility in the T-bond markets. A greater willingness to exit Treasuries at a moment’s notice, especially if there are hints of inflation.

    Real estate? Forget it—it’ll be another popping bubble, with the same damage as the last one.

    The only store of value will be commodities. Not just precious metals, but all commodities: Industrials, agros, and fossil fuels. It will simply make more sense for the investment community to rotate out of iffy stocks and dodgy bonds, and rotate into physical commodities. Why? Because there is too much liquidity.

    If there is such a rotation from equities and bonds into commodities, then the prices of food and transportation will rise—precipitously.

    Thus we will have inflation, possibly severe inflation. But the Fed will be loathe to rein in inflation via interest rate hikes.

    You know the saying about owning a hammer, and everything looking like a nail? The Fed cannot conceive of any way in which to help the economy that does not involve keeping interest rates low. The Fed under Bernanke (and Greenspan previously, who was guilty of the same sin) does not understand that it is not the job of the Fed to maintain full employment, stable prices, and a solvent banking sector. The Fed’s only mission is to ensure the stability of the fiat currency. Full employment? That’s the Federal government’s problem. Banking sector solvency? That’s not the government’s problem, that’s the free market’s problem.

    But the Fed, blinded, thinks that it has to support the banking sector and try to do something about employment. Thus it has lowered interest rates to laughable/insane levels. And it cannot raise them because of its own bias: “You don’t raise interest rates during a recession” is practically a Zen koan with the Fed economists.

    If commodities start to rise, as a market reaction to falling stock prices and a need to find an investment safe-haven, then inflation will rear its ugly head and hurt the American economy very, very badly. But the Fed—repeating exactly the same error that brought us stagflation—will not raise interest rates to quell it. The Fed will be too frightened of smothering the economy during a recession to raise rates and defend the currency.

    Thus the Fed will stand pat with ZIRP and QE, come a recession in 2014.

    In other words, the government will not be able to save the economy. This is the single point I’m trying to make here: If you think for a second that the Federal government and the Federal Reserve will step in once again and save everyone’s bacon (like the last time), then you have not been paying attention to what I’ve been saying—or been paying attention to how truly helpless the Obama Administration and the Fed really are.

    The Federal government and the Federal Reserve are out of bullets. 

    Which means we are on our own come a recession. And we’ll be paying not only for the recession of 2014, but also for the recession of 2007-09, which was deferred, but not worked out.

    In other words, a recession in 2014 just might well be The Big One.

    Oh boy . . . 

    Okay, that’s my thinking—here’s my pitch: This coming Thursday, at 8pm EST, I’m going to give a live presentation that’s going to look into all these issues in a lot more detail—really start us thinking seriously about what to do, if and when a recession hits the American economy. The title of this web seminar? Simple:

    What A Recession in 2014 Will Look Like

    Click on the link—and in case you missed it, here it is again. In this live presentation, I will expand on this brief essay, and will take audience questions, too.

    If you’re not sure if I’m an idiot or not, check out my appearance on Max Keiser last year and see for yourself:


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      1. Eh,they may be out of bullets,but with the years of citizens stocking up at least the public has plenty of bullets!

        • The FED’s out of ‘bullets,’ so DHS is buyin’ a trillion bullets.

          • I’m not scared, I have wet towels and sharp sticks! 🙂 This article is a good ad for gold/silver. I hope my 11 dollars is safe in the bank. Other than that everything I own is in MY possesion! And will stay in my possesion even if I have to poke someones eye out! I see a prepper party in the not to distant future 🙂

            • Your up on me!
              I only got 9$ in the bank,

              • First of all an economic recession, even a huge one is not going to be the SOLE cause of mega SHTF. Watch the US petro dollar for a very severe economic downturn. They can continue to manipulate money as long as other countries are willing to fit the bill. This could go on and on for years where 2014 is the year, then 2015, 2016……… Now you have OPEC countries decide that the US dollar is a bad risk and completely go to a basket currency, then the US dollar has what to back it up? Their good credit? HA,HA,HA.

                Fiat money is a joke. You could print up coins with BO on them, with that irritating smirk on his face, and as long as other people are willing to exchange that for services, products, whatever it functions. Unless there is something to back it up, precious metals or something of value those BO coins will collapse the same as the U.S. dollar.

                This is the whole issue. Whom is strong enough to back up the debt and the absurd U.S. dollar? China? Their economy is weakening. India? They are parasites to the U.S. ONLY the oil produers can back up crap. Everyone needs energy, plastics and other petroleum based products. Demand is always oil and that is where the money has its backing. That is until the U.S. dollar is dropped for all the good reasons. If you are selling a product that is always in demand why accept payment for it with something that is weak and unstable?

                The U.S. dollar’s only chance is that IF more emphasis is put on it being backed by the agriculture section then it MIGHT last longer and hold the economic collapse off for a few years. Everyone has to eat and food by-products has stability to it. This would help if the worthless government would stop the subsidies to farmers NOT to grow crops. The U.S. has 500 people per square mile and the capacity to produce enough food in excess of of at least 400 million people. That is a lot of money. Of course practicality is something that U.S. government does not deal in.

                An economic downturn will cause lots of (personal SHTF events) that people could lessen the fall by having what they need stored up instead of blowing their money on pure crap. Of course surviving a personal SHTF event in which the economy still is operational means precious metals that someone has invested in.

                An economic calamity completely widespread and devastating for eveyone would probably have to be the demise of the U.S. dollar, otherwise there will be plenty of “corrections” in the stock market and lots of this is the end forecasts that cannot pan out because of this manipulation. Doesn’t mean that such an economic problem cannot be the catalyst for war, a world war like what has happened so often in the past. Especially a wag the dog type war to prevent the U.S. dollar from completely falling apart. Look at the above article as the lit match to the explosive depot rather than the bombs itself.

                • The PAGE was able to eat some solid food. They better all watch out now.

                  And my hint of the day.

                  So you can keep a calm head about your gold start looking at everything in gram values instead of dollars. It will help you to stay calm if you are one of the ones that took there wealth out of dollars and.put them in gold.

                  • Face:
                    Happy to see you are feeling better.

                  • Thank you. Didn’t know how hard the body had to work to process solid food. Liquid diet may not be such a bad idea after all.

                    Someone need to invent a food pill.

                  • I’ll drink to that!

                  • Sometimes a hamburger and fries is just the ticket!

                    I hope they aren’t calling yogurt a solid food!

                • The currency and market manipulations that have been employed the past few years are astounding. The government has been very ‘creative’ in ways to ‘hide’ the true condition of the economy, real unemployment numbers, etc. from people. The MSM has been complicit by mainly reporting what they are told.

                  We know the Obama ‘recovery’ is a joke. Since 2009, the number of people added to food stamps is 75 times greater than the number of jobs created.

                  Life as we have known it in the U.S. will change. An economy held together by “duct tape and on life support” will only continue for so long.

                  An unexpected event (severe US earthquake, EMP, etc.) could unravel everything quickly.

                  It is not a matter of if, but when the dominos fall.

                • How’s the demand looking for NOT being a radioactive crater?

                  … Oh I forgot, we don’t do that well anymore.

                  Good foresight… pissing off the whole world then de-funding our weapons projects… that’s good thinking there *sarcasm*.

                • When a nation debt is in its own nonconvertible, fiat currency, it can satisfy that debt at any time. We don’t owe China or anyone else for our debt.

                  China has purchased Treasury securities from us rather than leave the dollars we pay them for their exports to us in their non interest bearing checking account at the Fed.

                  China decided to use those dollars to purchase U.S. interest bearing securities. We transfer $1 trillion from their checking account to their savings account at the Fed. And everyone calls that “borrowing” when in fact it’s China creating a savings account just like Grandma used to do when she bought war bonds. Except now with a non-convertible currency and a flexible exchange rate, sovereign currency nations never depend upon revenue per se to spend. Bottom line.

                  As long as the U.S. in monetarily Sovereign, producing at near capacity, the threat of insolvency or loss of reserve currency status, is unlikely.

                  Bottom line we are financing our own debt with our dollars. All we really owe China is a statement of their interest earnings. We just transfer money from their savings account to the their checking account. There are no grand children burdened with our debt.

              • The ghost of Mushroom says,”Crisp ten dollar bills in number ten cans.” But to honest, the Feds never did have a magic bullet to get us out of this predicament in the first place. The only true way was to let the banks fail, let the market have its reins, and to bite the bullet.

                • Get us out of this mess? They are the idiots got us into this mess.

                  • Sshhhhh! You’re supposed to have forgotten about that fact.

                • This is ridiculous and misleading, to say nothing about a poor attempt at sensationalism. The titles and subtitles and leading topical sentence ranges from Mac’s, “Recession 2014”, to “suggests the onset of a major recession”, to “if there is a recession in 2014” to “it might be the big one”. And, of course, Gonzales has made some “astute” observations and analysis in the past. Well, even a broken clock is correct twice a day. Do yourself a favor and save this article with hedge words like “might”, “could”, “possibly” and read it a year from now. Just like this article written almost a year ago on how things were going to go in 2013: Pay close attention to #25.

                  • Feds low interest rates and easy money policy combined with a hands off approach to rule enforcement caused the Great Recession.

                • @BI is right, comments are being censored on this site. All I pointed out and was censored, the sensationalism of the headline telling us there will be a recession in 2014, to the “if there’s a recession in 2014, to “a recession in 2014 might well be the big one”. A lot of hedging throughout this article, lots of maybe, possibly, could, and other vague statements.

                  Michael Snyder wrote on January 1, 2013, his bold predictions:

                  Celente has his continual missteps, this article will be interesting to reread in a year. And Gonzalo’s broadcast is nothing but a sales pitch to buy his products.

                  • So what are you saying, Muddy? You want economics and social situations, like war, to be an exact science?
                    You took The Blue Pill?


                    An awful lot of those guy’s predictions have come to pass. I guess you were lucky enough not to have been affected… so far?

                SSG U.S.M.C. 1965-1971

            • Did someone say “party”!?I’m there,,really,does hit the fan if able will have a final few drinks as the brave new world comes into being!

            • What is a bank? And why is YOUR money in it?

          • Future historians will be stumped as to how
            the FED committed suicide with six bullets
            to the back of the head without any ammo left.

            • If there is such a thing as a bright side to this here it is.
              You know those irritating sniveling whining leftist little shits that tout a socialist agenda, writing checks that their asses can’t cash?
              Well guess what? If the economy takes a dive, they get the pleasure of riding this bitch right on down with us.
              I just wished they had Obama tattooed on their foreheads.

              • I think we should step aside and let the obamanites go down first—it’ll make a softer landing for the rest of us, landing on the pile of their bodies.

              • ham people who think like you only comprise 10 to 15 percent of the population; you will get your ass wiped son.

                • By who? They can’t even pump their own gas. They will be sitting around waiting for someone to wait on them. Can’t wait to see Moochelle cooking, cleaning, walking her dog, and flying AF1 to her next hot spot.

            • what with their hands cuffed behind their back and all!

              • it’s a bitch….i guess they just couldn’t do the MATH! are YOU smarter than a fifth grader? math…it’s the LAW! just like gravity, it can’t be dicked with FOREVER!

            • with their hands cuffed behind their back too, after they had already been searched

            • @ Gunner…Vince Foster runs the Fed Reserve?

            • Gunner-


              They tried to deep throat the revolver also and choked to death!!!

            • Hopefully the same way left-handed whistle-blowers shoot themselves in the back right side of the head with a pistol they were not known to have owned.
              But there won’t be a National Park Service around to investigate the event.

          • 25% unemployment in Spain. I should have stayed there at least I wouldn’t have been alone. manyana….

        • I would bet on 2015 for two reasons: first 2014 is an election year, and the FED ALWAYS pumps money into the economy in an election year.

          Note that I said, “into the economy”. The lion’s share of the money that the FED has created has been applied to the reserves of its member banks, continuing the bailout of 2009. It has never reached the consumer.

          I look for the Member Banks to lend more money to the consumer in 2014 stimulating the economy a bit or maintaining the status quo.

          Most real estate markets are in the tank as the demographics are over, but California is picking up with Chinese buyers, and “Boomers” are still migrating to the Southwest.

          Second, the year after an election is USUALLY a “down year” as the FED moves to suppress or moderate the economy so that it doesn’t overheat moving into a Presidential election cycle. This almost always occurs to benefit the party in power.

          The fly in the ointment is Israel. At some point in 2014 Iran will move to nuclear weapons and Israel will respond. A half dozen nuclear warheads would reduce Israel to rubble. Israel has pretty good intel on Iran’s capability. It has the weapons to attack, and the encouragement and complicity of their Saudi brothers to do so. Israel will not blink.

          BOOM! Engage your enemy before he engages you. 🙂

          • On one hand I have to agree. They won’t let anything happen until after the elections. But in the back of my mind I keep thinking about what helicopter ben said all the way back in early 2012. He said they would keep interest rates down until at least early 2014. So far he kept his word about keeping them down. But now its early 2014.

            The sad thing is, in reality we’ve been in a recession since ’09 and if it wasn’t for EBT, and 99 weeks of unemployment, it would look like the depression it actually is. The difference between ’29 and now is, they just keep pumping the green backs into the system to artificially prop it all up. It’s only matter of time until it crashes. Will it be 2014? Could be, we are already on ‘borrowed’ time.

            • Agreed, but at some point in this mess nothing will hold any of it together, controlled chaos is ultimately what they want, but in the end can they really control the shit storm that’s coming?

              • I believe they can’t control it, hence the panic that ensues everybody during credit limit debates. The dems know for certain how uncontrollable it is and how a shutdown would affect the voting base. You can see the panic on their face.

                • We’re the guys that arm and fund the guys that 20 years later come back to blow us up.

                  What does that tell you about how much they can “control” anything?

                • This is slightly off topic but a harbinger of things to come…I believe…
                  A national bank in my “affluent town”, (east central Fl) will no longer have drive-thru tellers as of this coming March…
                  So now we’ll have get out of our cars and go inside???

                  I see bad things coming…

              • y99 – they will control the shit storm with a heeping plate of socialism .
                This is the part of the plan that buries the constitution and America , as we know it .

                • y99

                  Your question is my question also.

                  When 300 million cattle go into a
                  raging stampede during a lightning
                  storm, do they really have enough
                  “govt cowboys” to lasso the herd?

                  I can hardly believe that how loudly
                  they sing to them (socialism), will
                  have any affect once the cattle has
                  real hatred in their eyes and fear
                  in their hearts.

                  America is very unforgiving when she
                  finally realizes she has been lied to.

                  • Gunner: They don’t have to lasso 300 million cattle. All they have to do is make an example out of a few and many will fall docilely in line for the red, white, and blue, FEMA bus.

                    After all its a free ride. 🙂

                  • Dunno ’bout that DK!

                    Am sure there’s quite a few, who don’t buy into that ‘free lunch/free ride’ thingy…

                    Rest assured..there “WILL BE” manifold episodes, where the “BUS TICKET”, will cost said providers/mandate of such…dearly!!!


                    ..and each occurrence will whittle down their numbers and force the surviving JBTs to think RFH (real-f%cking-hard) about seeking:

                    ..a less hazardous mode of employment!!!


                    ..all, per your dictum of…ENGAGE!

                    -(taken to heart seriously, btw)-



                    …and thanks much for the impetus/advice.

                • But it allows us to start over. When the economy collapses, the dollar will also collapse with worldwide implications. Why do you think Obongo has built his own private army….a combination of DHS and other federal agencies he has armed for no other logical reason?

                  When the economy collapses, the government as we know it will also collapse right along with it. It will be a nationwide domino affect. There will be bank runs for people to try and get their useless dollars. When the welfare checks stop, the rioting will start, especially in the cities where the Black Populations are clustered. Stores will quickly be looted and overrun. Police will not respond because they will have to take care of their own families and there will be no money to pay them.

                  No foodstamps, welfare, ObamaMoney, ObamaPhones, LIHEAP, AFDC, it will all stop. Businesses will collapse and people will stop going to work. Riots will spread across the country and Martial law will be declared. The military will suffer from low morale, and desertions. Some officers and men will refuse to obey orders. The government will use UN and other foreign troops to try and restore order. Americans will quickly start a guerrilla war.

                  Who knows how bad it will get or how long it will go on? My guess is that government officials will either get out of the country or go into hiding. Americans will search for them and those who are found….Representatives, Senators, bureaucrats, will be rounded up and hanged, shot or worse.

                  Will China and Russia invade the US? Will the UN attempt to restore order? I don’t know. But I DO KNOW that NO nation has ever survived using fiat currency. IN EVERY SINGLE CASE, THE CURRENCY AND COUNTRY HAVE COLLAPSED SOONER OR LATER. THAT’S A FACT.

                  • Survivor727: If wishes were horses beggars could ride. A Mad Max apocalypse is not going to happen without a global thermonuclear war, or EMP.

                    Don’t get caught up in the Alt Media hype. Its more likely that a 30’s style Depression would occur than anything else. But for the sake of argument, lets say that a “total collapse” occurs, and WE get to start over.

                    Then what?

                    If you can’t get Americans off their ass to engage their enemy now, what makes you think that they will do anything when all hell is breaking loose?

                    So, who will be running things after a collapse? You? Not likely. It will be the same groups who have organized and divided the Nation up County by County.

                    Engage the enemy now, BEFORE a collapse, as a collapse would be used to justify further erosion of OUR Liberties by the PTB who are entrenched in power and know whats best for US, one rule, regulation, or euphemism at a time. 🙂

            • If all the things said about Obama is true like missing nukes and emps then I would have to happen before 2016. That why there Obama can hold his dictatorship.

            • Recession since ’09. Where have you been. We have been in a recession since 1973

          • Central Banking represents a failed socialist mentality!

            The Federal Reserve can no more correctly plan for an optimal quantity of money or a fictitious good rate of price inflation than any other branch of government can properly plan for the optimal supply and pricing of health care, condoms, or lollipops.

            The history of the FED has demonstrated the same inevitable failure of all forms of socialism.

            The madness will only end when we END THE FED.

            • The Fed is not socialism. Its secular Talmudism run by Zionist Masonic cabal and their stupid stooges in The Lodge aka Synagogue. Unless the Illuminati pharisees are brought to heel, they will find a fast replacement for “the Fed” using some other name with the same generational pedigree bloodlines behind it.

              • Oh, another Saudi/Al Queda troll heard from.

              • How is it, that the illuminati was formed in bavaria, yet they are now the jewish zionist cabal, doing the bidding of whom? For what purpose? And what proof do you have to believe such garbage?

              • I understand your argument, but at some point things fall under the “you can run, but you can’t hide.” theme. Eventually, natural order will take shape. No one will be able to bend the economy in their favor as things will have to reset to an equilibrium. No amount of speech or hand gesturing will quell the pent up problems of our society, economy, and people in general.

            • Yo Mama is WRONG again! LMAO! 🙂

              The FED is not about socialism, but elitism. That its your belief it demonstrates socialism examples your complete ignorance of the organization, its intent and purpose, and even socialism.

              How can you be soooo misinformed?

              You are also WRONG about their ability to estimate the necessary amount of money the economy (read its Member banks) need. The FED has data and computer models up the Kazoo! They know EXACTLY how much money the Member Banks need.

              Ignorance must be bliss, for you and the 19 fools that gave you a thumbs up! LMAO! Kill the FED. Death to the New World Order. 🙂

              • durango kidd says:

                “The FED is not about socialism.”

                Oh really?

                “The Ten Planks of the Communist Party.”

                #5 Centralization of credit in the hands of the state, by means of a national bank with state capital and an exclusive monopoly.

                The Federal Reserve System is a “national bank” and it politically manipulates interest rates and holds a monopoly on legal counterfeiting in the United States.

                This is “EXACTLY” what Marx had in mind, and it’s “EXACTLY” what we have in the Good Ole’ US of A.


                • What’s happening now is not that credit is being centralized in the hands of the state, but that the state is being taken over by “credit”, i.e. the financial giants.

                  As usual, Wrongo, you’ve got it wrong. Not to say bassackwards.

                • Yo Mama: Man your brain is fried from all the drugs!!!! LMAO!!! 🙂

                  Socialism is about spreading the wealth to the many: redistributing the wealth to the masses, so that every one has a “fair share”, whatever fair share means.

                  The FED is all about concentrating the wealth in the hands of a few corporations and banks for the benefit of the One Percent.

                  What socialism that WE have in this country is by design to placate the many with bread & circus’ while the wealth is concentrated in the One Percent. Thus 147 Corporations control 60% of all global commerce.

                  You are seriously misguided. Learn the basics. 🙂

                • YMWW, I have a copy of the Communist Manifesto and there are 14 planks. otherwise, everything you say is true. braveheart

          • Did you see the chart of ground chuck prices? Wow.

            “the damage caused by all the newly created currency and credit, used to buy all the Treasury debt in the first place, has already long since flooded into the economy via government borrowing and spending the new money, inflating the money supply and causing horrifying inflation in prices.

            Ergo, the national craze to increase the minimum wage.” …


            • Which would result in further price increases, rendering the “raised” minimum wage equal to or less than the current one, in terms of purchasing power, within two years.

              You can only “wash, rinse, repeat” so many times…

        • pistols vs lazers, tanks, F16s, drones, microwave particle weapons, satt fired beams and bio/chem trail onslaught?
          good luck dude, you’re delusions of power are almost funny

          • @brighton

            You seem to forget the fact that after 12 years, the US military hasn’t been able to bring to heal a bunch of sandal wearing Afghan goat herders who deploy little more than AKs.

            A good supply of bullets, a whole lot of guts, and time will force the American Empire out of Afghanistan.

            There is reason to why they call Afghanistan the “Graveyard of Empires.”

            • I agree to a point. However, the government is restrained in Afghanistan. The government will not hold back when they are fighting to keep themselves in power.

              • erv says:

                The government will not hold back when they are fighting to keep themselves in power.

                Now remember, when things look bad and it looks like you’re not gonna make it, then you gotta get mean. I mean plumb, mad-dog mean. ‘Cause if you lose your head and you give up then you neither live nor win. That’s just the way it is. ~ The Outlaw Josey Wales

            • A truly sad reflection of priorities…

              Senate Dems block amendment to restore veteran benefits by closing illegal immigrant welfare loophole

              “In 2011, the Treasury Inspector General for Tax Administration found that ‘individuals who are not authorized to work in the United States’ (illegal aliens) and therefore did not have a valid Social Security number were still able to obtain BILLIONS in Additional Child Tax Credits by filing returns with an Individual Taxpayer Identification Number.”

              “Illegal aliens received $4.2 billion refundable credits in Processing Year 2010.”

              “Sessions hoped to attach his amendment to the deal — which would have closed the loophole by requiring a Social Security number to claim the refundable portion of the child tax credit and restore military retirement benefits.”

              Senate Democrats BLOCKED the amendment to the budget and chose to cut military pensions instead of cutting tax loopholes for illegal aliens.
              The Daily Caller

              Our tax dollars at work…
              IRS Sent $46,378,040 in Refunds to 23,994 ‘Unauthorized’ Aliens at ONE Atlanta Address
              CNS News dot com

            • YOU forget the fact that in that case, the US has an internal / international image to uphold lest there be chaos.

              In the proposed scenario… oh wait oops… there’s already chaos. Image be damned.

              Do you seriously think we couldn’t take a bunch of AK wielding goat herders down if we were REALLY motivated and didn’t care what anyone thought?

              We could do it in under three weeks.

            • Yo Mama is WRONG again!!! LMAO! The goal in Afghanistan is not to win but to CONTROL. Control its direction and development for the New World Order.

              That is why the US will be there for many more years to come; that and the fact that war generates boo coo income for the military/industrial complex.

              Afghanistan is AWASH in oil & gas. Its also rich in metals, both precious and rare. the USA will leave Afghanistan when it is safe for multi national corporations to do business there.

              Kill the FED. death to the new World Order. Engage! 🙂

              • Control, well enough to keep the Chinese out. The reason we can’t win there is because China shares a border with Afghanistan, and as soon as we are pushed out, there will be rail lines and pipelines across that border. Their ultimate goal is a land route to the mideast, which gets them oil and gas without having to run tankers all the way around India and Singapore, and up through the pirate-infested waters in that region.

                So China feeds the “goatherders” with explosives, weapons and training. Not first-hand of course, but it doesn’t take a genius to figure out “who benefits?”.

                Why is it in our interest to keep the Chinese out? Our ongoing defense commitments in Europe, which include defense of Europe’s oil supplies. If China get there, Europe will have only Russia as a supplier, and we all know what happens when there’s a monopoly.

                • Coach: It is not OUR government’s intent to keep the Chinese out of Afghanistan. On the contrary WE are pacifying the country for them.

                  The Gangster Banksters and the CCP are full partners in Global Domination; dividing the world between them. The US government wants the Chinese to look West to Central Asia for the resources they need, and North to Russia.

                  Oil is a global commodity. If the Chinese are developing Afghani oil & gas as well as Persian fields, they will not be relying on other sources, such as Australia, where they would come in conflict with US.

                  The USA is beginning a slow disengagement from the Middle East under O’Bummer to mitigate the potential of conflict between Global Powers. Israel and Saudi Arabia can handle Iran, and Europe must take responsibility for its sphere of influence. This is the current process.

                  While the Chinese claim to much of the South China Sea is legitimate, potential conflict with the US is not realistic; but it gives them a bogie man too justify developing a military capability to overwhelm Siberia when the time is right.

                  Sun Tse was a Chinese military strategist that everyone reads today: especially the Chinese. 🙂

                  • Coach: Europe can get all the oil & gas they need from the Med and Africa. The USA will also be shipping natural gas to Europe.

                    Africa is awash in oil & gas from top to bottom. 🙂

        • War
          You asked about the Aim Sport. They have several different types of rect. for their recon scopes. I like the Chevron the best. I also have the dot with the 1/2 moon over it. My brother likes it the best. Do a little research and you will find these scopes are pretty darn nice.

          • Thanks again,book marked this go round,waiting on a deposit for a gig hopefully coming soon or sell a few cords,either way my poor little rifle needs a scope,there is one out there with my name on it just waiting to be adopted!

        • @ John Q Public

          I read your response a couple articles ago and it’s all rubbish. FYI the BIBLE still doesn’t contain purgatory. All the verses you posted do not contain the word.

          I also reject your faith that adds 7 books including some “book of apocalypse”

          Joesph Smith is some MAN that made some stupid sect so he could control people and have 10 wives. FLDS love to sleep with other mens wives because they say it was a revelation by their prophet.

          No man has any better angle or revelation from GOD than I do. He loves us all the same and you need to wake up because time is short.

          Saying a prayer in Love for your mind to see.

          • John Q. wrote his own bible. Had to. The real one won’t support his hallucinations.

          • @ the usual suspects

            The Bible does not contain the word “anti-Christ.”

            I suppose you don’t believe in the anti-Christ then. “Man of Sin” isn’t good enough for you? Maybe you thought the Evangelists and Prophets wrote the Bible in English???

            The word “purgatory” comes from the Latin “purgare,” to purify.

            These verses refer to “purifying,” “cleansing,” and the need of the dead for our prayers. Please keep in mind the very difficult concept that the Old and New Testaments were written in Hebrew, Aramaic, and Greek—NOT English.

            Again I refer you to the BIBLE, the Book of the Apocalypse 21:27, that nothing unclean enters Heaven. Cleansing and purification are necessary.

            Purgatory is a temporary state of purification for those who have died in a state of grace, but who still have lingering imperfections that warrant cleansing (e.g., venial sins, earthly attachments, self-will).

            Notice that even in the Old Testament it was taught to pray for the dead. If the deceased went to hell for an eternity, why pray? Those in hell cannot be helped. If the deceased went directly to heaven for an eternity, why pray? Those already in Heaven do not need our help. So, why pray for the dead? Because those who die in a state of grace, still need to be cleansed.

            Purgatory appears in both the Old Testament AND the New Testament. The verses do not say “purgatory” any more than they say “anti-Christ,” but the verses speak of the need to pray for the dead for cleansing and purification, of being “in the dark” until God brings the dead “into the light,” the need for perfection, etc.:

            2 Maccabees 12:46
Leviticus 26:41,43

Isaias 4:4; 6:5-7; 33:11-13

            Micheas 7:8-9

            Zacharias 9:11

            Matthew 5:25-26, 48; 12:32-36; 18:34ff

            Luke 12:58ff; 16:19-31

            1 Corinthians 3:10-16
2 Corinthians 5:10; 7:1

            Ephesians 4:8-10
Philippians 2:10-11
Hebrews 12:14, 29
James 3:2
            Peter 3:19; 4:6

            Apocalypse 5:3, 13; 21:7

            Instead of talking about your Bible, you should READ IT… intelligently.

            Catholics do have the advantage because we believe the Bible, including 2 Thessalonians 2:14: “Therefore, brethren, stand fast; and hold the traditions which you have learned, whether by word, or by our epistle.”

            Yes, the Bible commands you to observe not just the written word, but also the authentic oral Apostolic Tradition. So, while those verses do not contain the English word “purgatory,” they most definitely teach that the dead need our prayers during the time of their purification in Purgatory before entering heaven.

            • You already discredited your own statement:

              “”””verses do not say “purgatory”

              Correct, because your making scripture say something it doesn’t. I’m done trying to help you but the people that read your non sense posts need to go to each one of those scriptures and see the word PURGATORY isn’t listed.

              Also you other 7 cult books aren’t in my or any other knowledgable Chrisitans BIBLE.

              • By your illogic, there will be no anti-Christ because the Bible does not use the English word “anti-Christ.”

                1,500 years after Christ, a drunken fornicator ripped over 7 books from the Bible for the convenience of his heresies, yet you think the drunken fornicator knew better what was the Word of God than those who sat at the feet of Jesus Himself and His Apostles.

                Go figure.

                • I also reject your faith that adds 7 books including some “book of apocalypse”
                  Joesph Smith is some MAN that made some stupid sect so he could control people and have 10 wives. FLDS love to sleep with other mens wives because they say it was a revelation by their prophet.
                  No man has any better angle or revelation from GOD than I do. He loves us all the same and you need to wake up because time is short.
                  -John Q.; I wouldn’t worry too much if I were you. Judging by his posts he is ignorant of the fact that the Bible is a collection of separate books of scripture that were compiled long after Jesus was resurrected. He seems to know nothing about the early church history, not to mention the recorded positions of the truly courageous founders of the Protestant Reformation (or heresy, depending on your view). Not one of them claimed the right to divine inspiration for their actions, merely the necessity of conscience. As L.D.S. I can and do disagree with you as R.C. on who holds the keys to His church on Earth at this time but I don’t see where anyone else has any claim at all since they must be passed on person to person by the laying on of hands.
                  He is also extremely misinformed about the LDS and RLDS religions, and doesn’t seem to realize they are not the same thing. In neither was it ever approved to sleep with other men’s wives as that would be adultery.
                  His religious credentials seem somewhat lacking.
                  Apparently he feels very threatened by the concept of needing to be cleansed and become worthy. His bottom line seems to be a need to claim the right to Divine inspiration without waiting for God to make that decision.
                  There is nothing you can do with someone like this until the Spirit touches him and opens his eyes; just be ready to teach when the time comes and be an example until then.
                  The only criticism that counts comes much later.

                  • @ SWFL

                    The key to using conscience as your guide is to have a PROPERLY FORMED conscience.

                    If I can make any inference from the red thumbs and gratuitous statements of illogical doctrine, it is this—there is no shortage of people for whom their genitals, bloodlust, and other vices command more importance than the Ten Commandments.

                    Contrary to dozens of verses, those misguided fools think they can live like animals and simply cry out “Lord, Lord” and still be saved.

                    As for the Protestant DEFORMATION, reforms of abuses were necessary (as they are NOW necessary), but heresies are not reforms, only eternal death.

                    I really have no interest in personally attacking you for your religion, but the changeable impermanent nature of LDS doctrine is certainly no reflection of the omniscience or omnipresence of God, only the feverish whims of fallen men.

                    The Catholic Church is in worse disarray now than ever, but this is due to Churchmen who have adopted the diabolical Judeo-Protestant attitude that they can rationalize any belief or behavior and impudently expect admittance to eternal life. It is not Catholic doctrine or morality that is the problem. It is diabolically disordered Church MEN who are the problem, including the monster who fits St. Francis’ prophesy that in the End Times there would be a Pope who is “not canonically elected… a destroyer, not a pastor.”

        • The Tyrannical government doesn’t want to save the economy. For anyone who believe it does is a FOOL….

      2. His argument looks pretty solid to me & I have to agree that commodities are the best bet.

        • I agree, commodities are the way to go!!!!

          Make sure your preps are in order!

          • There will be no recession in 2014, just more fakery of numbers to hide the Depression we are already in.

            • Yep, they’ve hid it for 4 years already, declared it over in 09. They aren’t out of bullets, for they print $85 billion a month now….few would care if it’s $250 billion a month.

              • 85 billion here.. 100 billion there.. pretty soon we are talking some real money!

          • Take an old man’s advice:

            When a bubble pops, the LAST place you want to have your wealth is in commodities. And the current economy, (what there is of it, is the Mother of All Bubbles. When it goes, prices for everything will fall like a dropped rock. This guy is selling commodities. He wants to get out before the crash, and wants YOU to be the sucker that bought at the top.

            That said, preparation commodities are still necessary. Despite the fact that prices fall, there will be disruptions in supply chains that may prevent you from getting what you need at any price, so do not neglect your water/food/healthcare/shelter/fuel/defense preps.

            But do NOT get suckered into buying more PMs at this late stage. Buy at the bottom after the fall. Not at the top or you will fall with them.

            There’s an anecdote about one of the 19th century Rothschilds. Asked why it was a they always made money on speculations, he replied: “We always sell too soon.”

        • Sounds reasonable to me, but as I’ve learned over the last 6 years reason and the Economy aren’t exactly joined at the hip. I have no great faith that a collapse of stocks will happen in 2014. Why not just keep em going up and up and up? Hell everyone’s getting rich right? Keep kicking it down the road.

          • We have a value borrowed economy and not a value added economy. We are living the off shored, free trade economy, Of course it will come to an end, it’s been a complete failure. For the past 15 years our middle class economy has been like someone on a pogo stick going down a hill. There’s been some ups and downs yet after each cycle we are further down hill.

            With only 9% of our economy being in manufacturing we can not build our way out of this mess, manufacturing needs to be closer to 20% -25% of our economy. We do not manufacture any mass produced consumer item, no mass produced shoes, tvs, computers, phones……….this crap has gone on for so long that it’s now threatening the white collar class.

            There’s no will from TPB to correct this problem, they’re making easy money with schemes, why work when you can scam. So there will be another recession and it will be deeper than the last. I don’t know how many more hops are left on the pogo stick before it goes over a cliff.

            • Bang on. Only productivity can save us, and while our ag sector is still productive, and oil/gas production is ramping up, mining of other raw materials is slowing down or dead. Heck, the EPA has just forced the last lead smelter to close. Coal mining will fall off as the power plants get shut down. Lack of power has forced a large aluminum smelter in my county to close (1000 jobs). Iron and steel have been gone for decades. We don’t even mine rare earth minerals for high tech magnets, despite having good stocks of ore. Manufacturing is still here, but it’s all high tech and heavy infrastructure stuff. But employment in those companies is falling as they automate to avoid high cost labor (thank you the UAW, Manufacturing of consumer goods is almost 100% gone, as Rick says. I just bought an industrial sewing machine that came from a shirt factory near me, which closed years ago. I paid about 3 cents on the dollar for it. No call for them anymore. (I reckon it may come in handy after SHTF, though. Adapting it for steam or water power will be easy, unlike consumer sewing machines.)

              • Coach-

                I may not agree w/ some of your posts…but this time I gotta give you credit:

                You’ve nailed it down!

                +1 to ya.

              • Our sewing machine is powered by feet.

                • Whoa! Someone who has one of those old Singers! I once had one myself, but wife #1 took it with her.

                  I’m reading an old book on metalworking, in which they show metal lathes that are treadle driven. Not very big or powerful, of course, but lathes nonetheless.

                  Ever see a spring-pole lathe? Or a spring-pole well drilling setup? In my area they drove shallow OIL wells with a springpole around the Civil War era.

                  • Coach,check out low tech magazine site,a lot of cool old school tools/ideas.

                • Those are nice,hard to come by.

            • Notice all of the hype with the lottery fever and the insane media coverage. Reminds me of the Hunger Games. A society that no longer feels they can make it to the bigtime on their own. You MUST settle for mediocrity or poverty and hope that you get lucky one day. Our culture/society is falling for it hook, line, sinker. The elites sit back and laugh while they get more and more money and power. However, the joke will be on them. They are killing the goose that laid the golden egg, the middle class. It will come to a head at some point.

            • Maybe I’m dense, but I never saw how “raising interest rates to cure inflation” could possibly work.

              With so much of spending and growth dependant on BORROWED money, wouldn’t raising the “cost of money” add another fee to everyone’s bottom line, in the form of Higher prices ??

              Also, who in the real world would park a C-note in a bank for a year, to get the “tree-fitty” in interest, when real, street-level inflation is clearly about triple that ? Plus, you get dinged for the gains (numerical) come tax time…

              • I’m not saying I disagree with you or that I know the answer, but I think an economist would tell you to look deeper into the concept of velocity and how it interacts with inflation in a fractional reserve banking system.

                If you really want to know thats probably a good place to look. If you don’t want to know thats fine by me too. If you think you figured anything out, feel free to reply, because I always get confused by this stuff and could use any help I can get.

              • In a less bizarro world, raising interest rates slows the demand for new loans. It’s hard to grasp initially, but every new loan is created money. If there’s fewer new loans, there’s less money being created. Money supply growth slows or even stops. And growth of the money supply is what inflation is. Rising prices are merely a consequence.

                This works inside the banking system, too, where banks lend and borrow to/from each other, and to/from the Fed. That in fact is how they “raise rates”. The rate on overnight loans to/from the Fed is dictated by the Fed.

                At this point, however, they cannot raise interest rates, because that would force the Treasury to pay more for all the loans they have to “roll over” or refinance every week. (The dollar value is staggering.) The deficit would skyrocket, and the risk of default would rise. That could/would cause lenders to demand even higher rates for the increased risk, and a vicious spiral begins. They’ve been perilously close to this ever since 2007, and the smart ones are terrified. It might go from a .1% increase to total collapse in a week if psychological factors cause lender to lose faith in the promises the Treasury makes.

                And THAT will be a SHTF moment.

        • COMMODITIES: Guns, Food, Medical, Liquor, Fuel and SHITLOADS of AMMO. God Bless America !

          • CubanExile, welcome aboard. My wife was from Madruga in Matanzas province, and you?

      3. Lets Roll……

      4. First, Gonzalo another fine reality check.

        Second, ‘We The People’ are living in a ‘pipe’ dream that will soon turn into a nightmare. I have always said 2013 will be the last year to prepare relatively easy. After that, it will become harder by the month.

        All I can say to everyone, besides good luck, is to invest in your needs and to keep it as simple as possible. You cannot have everything. Hopefully groups can help each other with their skills. But that will only work if more folks see the bad days ahead. Not too many today….

        Who ever thought today would erode so fast in our great land. But we have been warned, biblically and thru alternative news. Good luck folks….

        • Hi Ugly

          I agree – prepping will never be easier than it is now. I did some sums – with your $17 trillion thats about $51,000 for every man woman and child in the US. I read today our debt (Federal, not State) will crack $667 billion due to 6 years of a government that inherited NO debt and spent like a drunken sailor which is $29,000 per capita. Not up to your level yet but give it time guys. Our system was propped up for years due to China buying everything we could dig out of the ground, but that is tapering off now.

          Europe is knackered – very few countries even close to an even keel. China is accumulating gold at 1,000 tons a month – no prizes for guessing what that is for – to control the worlds money system. The Middle East has been a powder keg since before biblical times and nothing has changed there.

          It’s all very well to plan for a catastrophic economic meltdown but never lose sight of the fact we can easily be blindsided by a pandemic which even now may be bubbling away in a filthy hut in an equally filthy Chinese province, an EMP or WW3.

          Take care Ugly, and all the good people on this site – I’ve grown fond of you lot 🙂


          • Aussie.

            Good cheers your way down-under as well. Hope you and your family will have a good holiday and a prosperous new year.

            The ‘Spirit’ seems to be down this year. I am not noticing the music, decorations, or even the crowds at the malls as normal. Not sure how spending is going, but it may be a down sign.

            Yes, 2013 was the last of the ‘easy’ prepping years. Things will get harder by the month because I believe supplies will get shorter and peoples spending monies will get less and less.

            Good luck down under and elsewhere to the World’s Folks.

      5. To everyone!
        Do the best you can with what you can. And have a Merry CHRISTmas!
        Hopefully it won’t be the last one. And I hope I offended some with spelling of Christmas. See ya in the trenches!

        • Tis OK Rose,I always spelled it Merry X-mas!

          • The “X” in “X-mas” refers to the Greek letter “X” or “chi” which is the first letter in the word “Christ” in Greek. “X-mas,” “Xians,” etc. are all just shorthand with “Christ” implied by the “X”, not “X-ed out” as some ignoramuses would believe.

            • To me it means like the AC_DC song,”A Mistress For Christmas”,hence the X.

            • Sigi: Well wonder of wonders, an educated person amongst the great unwashed. Most of the dull-witted denizens of this, and many other similar sites, don’t even know what Greek is other than a type of food. Unlike you, they don’t know that English prefixes and suffixes as well as many root words are derived from both the Latin and the Greek. Years ago, Greek and Latin were taught in many schools here in America, but not today. Small wonder that primary and secondary schools here are the worst in the western world. Congratulations, you will likely be a leader someday.

              • Oh, that bloody limey troll Higgins has returned.

                • Braveheart: Well, well, if isn’t my “challenged” little friend. You should really skip these more scholarly discussions as I’m well aware that they tax your small brain to the point of breaking. If I had the ability on this site I could draw you a few picture in crayon to ease your burden should you insist on reading one of my brilliant missives. Happy Christmas young fellow.

      6. For one thing I don’t believe we ever came out of the 2007 recession, all we did is paper over it but the underlying fundamentals haven’t changed. It is not a problem of liquidity (paper) it is a matter of solvency and the fed is now backed into a corner of zero interest rates (ZIRP) and Quantity Easing (QE) to the tune of 80 billion a month and even the mere mention of a taper (slow down) of stifling the flood of paper to the banks sends everything into a tailspin. I think we be fvked as I cant see anything in the future to pull us out of the free fall we are now in. We have near 50 million on food stamps, the Unemployment rate looks better simply because people have exhausted the benefits and now are moving to social security under the guise of disability, the laid off lawyers are taking the teens jobs away from them flipping burgers, but we are supposed to believe that the recession ended in 09? HORSESHIT!

        • 02..

          you are dead on…


        • .02, spot on, sad to say, we’re still in a recession. Remember in July 2009 when Obama gave Wall St. a bailout? that was on top of the bailout that Baby Bush gave them in September 2008. that was the beginning of the economic collapse and we’re still in that. It’s not over until the fat lady sings, but the fat lady is not in any hurry to get on stage. braveheart

        • .02:

          The author lost me at “But the Fed, blindly”….

          Really? Blindly? Don’t think too many of us here believe the Fed is just “blindly” stumbling along…..

          Planned yes, blind, no…..

          • Yes blindly. Helicopter Ben seriously believes that the ONLY the lack of massive injection of liquidity is what made the ’30 Depression last so long. So he’s doing the opposite, and sticking to it despite all proofs that it ain’t working. Blind to the obvious proof of Einsteins maxim that doing the same thing over and over expecting a different result is the definition of insanity. There is no secret plan to destroy the economy for the benefit of the Illuminati. (If the economy tanks they tank with it.) And Ben ain’t the only one. The head of the EU central bank and (recently-ex) head of the Bank of England were all at MIT together, all got the same dose of Keynsian claptrap, and all are telling each other that they can’t be wrong, because MIT, you know? Three Blind Mice. See How They Run.

            • Using history as a guide to economics, there is one glaring statistic that is 100% and that is the failure of ALL economies over time. Some say we need to go back to the gold standard. Been there, done that, failed. Paper used as a standard of what is produced/stored/saved, failed. Tulips, failed. Seashells, failed. Beads and whiskey to the indians, BINGO.. we need everything priced in beads and whiskey, at least they are real.. But seriously, there is and never has been an answer to the problem of the economic systems getting top heavy and crashing.

              • Well, there was an answer, going back to our last great collapse. The Glass-Steagall Act, which limited banks so well that our banking industry was the most stable in the world. But a few high-flyers got that repealed as a parting shot from the Clinton Administration, (Gramm-Leach-Bliley) and since then it’s been a fast track to disaster.

                BTW McVain is an un-indicted co-conspirator in that job. I hope he lives long enough to be hung for that crime.

            • Damn-!!!

              Old Coach, you’re one dyslexic s.o.b.!

              What’s up w/ you dude?

              Earlier, you typed a decent analysis per the benefits of a true manufacturing/production based economy (see above)…now, you suddenly turn around and stuff both feet in your mouth, by positing that the “money masters” are helplessly and innocently:

              …optically impaired!!?? -(see blind)-



              Logic demands I ask you:

              ..WTF is up w/ your 180 degree disconnect?


              They invented our debt based monetary system & currency…they invented the concept/system of usury based banking.

              They’ve always controlled (for +100 years) the printing/distribution/flow and velocity of our debt-based currency…and (semi-lately) advocated/shepherded legislation/free-trade-agreements (via NAFTA/GATT/WTO/CAFTA & now the TPP proposal)…for the outsourcing/exporting and thus, the planned death-knell of our industrial/technological capacity…to foreign shores/locations!

              ..all to the detriment of the American working man!


              …and yet, you possess the gall to utter/write…it wasn’t/isn’t PLANNED???


              You also state: -(quote)-

              ..there is no plan to destroy the economy for the benefit of the Illuminati -(see bankers & TPTB)-..
              because if the economy tanks, they tank with it!


              FYI, “they” do not adhere to our understanding/comprehension of ‘ECONOMICS’!

              ..because and it is they, who decide and hence define/control, the definition of the theory/application of economics and whatever that word means in a given context…

              …so as long as it benefits…THEM!!!


              In the end Old Coach, any and all wealth/monies/investments etc…never simply disappears/is lost/evaporates in a market collapse…

     merely changes hands/ownership…in one asset form or another…

              …but always to the benefit of…THEM!


              I’ll leave it to others here, to explain the process to you….


              But FYI…..Granny is RIGHT!

              • Thanks Hunter, you saved me from having to take the Old Fool to the woodshed…..

          • I hear you, granny. This was a weak article, since when do analysts rely on statements and not the raw data.

            he said: Thus it has lowered interest rates to laughable/insane levels. And it cannot raise them because of its own bias: “You don’t raise interest rates during a recession” is practically a Zen koan with the Fed economists.

            Anyone, thats ANYONE, who professionally relies on the word or policy of ANYONE in the Obama administration should be hung up to dry.

            The comments from some of our knowledgable folks here make the best argument. Durango Kid and .02 are spot on.

            The stock market is propped up by the QE money now. Any taper or cut off will cause a drop in the market and the drop will depend on the amount cut and the sentiment from all of that.
            Theres no mention of the impact that Obamacare will have on businesses and most families next year and the year after that. It aint only the increase in premium fees but any family dealing w/ real illness or a hospital stay will have to pay deductibles out of pocket. One or two of those hospital stays wipes a family out. Or forces bankrupcy.

            • TODAY-FED says LESS QE and a TAPER OF QE, DOW went UP 300 Points. The exact Opposite reaction of what all the “experts” in these many articles has clamied.

              NO spiral down, NO crash, just dow s&P and nasdac ALL Up and Up substantionally After Fed announced a Taper off of QE…Next phony prediction plese?

              • Don’t impute a long-term meaning to a short term phenomenon. And the Dow is so totally manipulated at this point that what it does day-to-day is more an indicator of what the big finance guys want the world to believe than it is an indicator of actual economic forces. And they fooled you.

        • Ref: .02 says: ” HORSESHIT ”

          I think you meant to say ” Whoresshit “…Cause we are all being “Pimped out “….Maybe I have missed something…but from where I am standing I see the economic toilet swirling faster and faster….and the Entire System is about to take one Huge Dump on all of us that will make 2008 pale in comparison.

          As I have stated before….I don’t think very many people have a clue as to the depth of chaos that could/will soon be upon us.

          It has been just a matter of time for some time now….but I feel in my Gut, Heart & Spirit that we are about to arrive….soon we will see it coming and I think Hell will follow…..

          Merry CHRISTmas to you all……

          PS…..And I agree with Roseman91 on the proper spelling of CHRISTmas !!!

          • Like that whoreshit. That one and Grannys joke will get me through the week.
            Read Keeping it real over at washingtonsblog dot com. That is one hell of a post and youll be shaking your head at the screen in agreement. No bullshit over at that site. Im sending it to some peeps who think were heading to great times next year.

            • Um, Washington’s Blog makes tinfoil hats look out of style.

      7. recession in 2014?

        you mean the rest of the populace will finally realize we are already in a depression?

        if not for food stamps…49 million would be in bread lines today

        if not for unemployment insurance..10’s of millions would be starving and homeless

        if not for cooked govt books..unemployment would be actually at depression era levels @ 23%..but they no longer use the prior data to configure..

        lies upon lies upon lies…


        • even the supposed alt media spins pravda-like nonsense..

          we are living in the age of total control and spin like never before..

          this is twilight zone meets the outer limits with george orwell narrating

          spare me please..


          • possee,

            I call it white noise, always there but you get used to it, lately though it does seem to be getting louder and more annoying.

            Nothing lasts forever.

          • If the bill passes tommorow in the senate, 1.3 million will be out of unemployment benifits. Thats going to hurt. I was dropping of a couple of cases of elkburger helper at the food bank and the lady said the lobbiest in DC told her to brace herself in 2014…major cuts are coming.

        • Great points Possee. I think its Dec 28 when more than a million lose their unemployment benefits. That will effect the unemployment rate and itll probably drop to 6.8% or so.

          Obama sure does know how to get the economy going again. Hes college educated and everything.

      8. At the end of EVERY year for the past 8, it has been called the end of the world… the last year to prep.. remember Y2K?

        Im tired of all these “experts” spouting the same crap. Celente, Jones, and on and on and on.


        Just prep and wait. ANd in between , shut up!

        This turned from a prepardness site to a political one.

        AM I the only one who noticed?

        • @HTJ Politics is WHY we are prepared! All but the new readers know what, how and where and who. But none of know when.

          • All kinds of sites are like this now. How on earth could it be otherwise? And it’s all negative towards the lying criminal traitor in chief. As it should be. It’s like Tex says, this helps us keep eachother informed and spurs the prepping. As for me, I feel right at home.
            Standing ready in Daytona

        • HTJ….

          No… you are not….

          And there was a time when ” We didn’t scare so easy !!! ”

          I do have my own thoughts on all this Insanity….the lies are running out….And you are right about most all of the “BULLSHIT” cons on youtube….I oft time think Alex Jones needs some form of Medication !!! Along with several others spouting out the same dogma over and over for years…and then running their ads for food preps..Gold…Silver…and washable toilet paper !!!

          Like Grandfather said …” Take what you need…and leave the rest ”

          Until then…let’s just hope the liquor stores don’t collapse !!!

        • More than likely the political shit is whatll bring us down. Who can give us the statistics on that one? Earthquake, not so much of a chance. Hurricane or tornado, higher chance. Terrorist attack, higher chance. Fatal car wreck, higher chance. Obama fucking it up for everyone, biggest chance of all.

          • @Calgacus..Obama fucking it up for everyone…

            The average health insurance premium under O’BamaCare for a 30YO male is expected to rise 260%.

            You can bet that statistic won’t be finding itself thrown into the US inflation rate pressure cooker.

            • The biggest lie so far in american history was told by Obama.
              The biggest $ drain for the working class in american history was brought about by Obama.

              This article didnt even mention it or did I miss that part. Anyone who is self employed is in a shtf lifestyle now. Anyone who gets their insurance thru their employer will be in a shtf life next year. Whatll the totals be, 40 to 50 million shit outta luck by next October or so. And we get articles about Hitler rising up to take our guns. Bah!

      9. @ HTJ-

        I’ll go along with that for sure.
        The same people spouting the same thing ad infinitum.

        This guy Lira is another in the bunch that tries to make a name for himself.

      10. HTJ-
        I’ve been saying the same thing on here.

        These “experts” know better though.

        • you guys have to be blind if you cant see this train wreck is picking up speed. For millions upon millions of people WORLD WIDE their shft moment is upon them. Go tell the Greeks that everything is fine. Syria, Egypt, Iraq, Cyprus, Spain, hell all of the EU, why do you think Ukraine just bailed out and joined Russia? look at our infrastructure crumbling as in Detroit and just about everyone of our cities, China chocking on pollution, Fukushima, 35+ volcanoes are spewing, storms gaining strength, the Pacific is simply dead in the northern hemisphere but hell, that is only going to starve maybe 2 billion people.. no biggie. Haiti is starving, problems again in Argentina, Africa is and always will be a basket case but once upon a time people could travel to Jamaica and not get kidnapped. But yea, as long as it doesn’t effect you guys “wtf is the problem?”

          • I have some people from wall street that say it will happen and cannot be stopped and they think anytime between now and the election, depends on which way they want it to go down, and yes it is being done by a group who is trying to rule the world completely, lets hang em all !!!

          • @ .02. I will pass on the message to your friends here in boundary. email me your last name if you want.

            • is OK i was just up there burying another friend and said hi to a bunch of them. I am not far away, just inside the next border over.

          • 02

            amen to that..

            Manos and I communicate regularly…it is very bad and still deteriorating in Greece..

            We receive little or nothing from any news source here in the states regarding any semblance of facts or truth whatsoever….be it here in the states or elsewhere.

            The world powers are collectively circling their wagons..and spewing lies and b.s. to their constituents.

            One has to go to European outlets for some mere semblance of truth..especially with some objective viewpoints and facts on our nations ills..that our media willfully ignores or suppresses..


            • I think my last comment on the commie news channels was they “report shit, absolute bullshit”. Example, this morning the report is inflation 1.4%. Unless you do not eat or purchase fuel you know this is complete bullshit. Another thing to look for in the commie news is what is not there. They lie by omission and that I believe is more dangerous. I tell my wife that no matter what happens I want their children to suffer 1000x more than mine when the SHTF for blowing smoke up our asses so the agenda is not exposed.

              Here’s an idea for anyone on board with instigating the “reset” – use the word libtards whenever in the presents of a libtard. It appears to have the same effect as shitting in someones wheaty’s. Good luck to all.

            • Posse…how ole Manos doing…miss his imput…tell him I and others here are thinking of him and his and pray things work out for them…

        • Rich98, welcome back. How have you been? braveheart

          • OK Bravehart. Same old crap. FED cut the QE today and market is UP> I really am beginning to think I was wrong and this shit will SOMEHOW sort itself out.

      11. Amen. Tired of hearing it.

      12. As an HVAC and electrical contractor, I can say things are very similar to end of 08 and early 09. That’s when it dropped hard for us round here. The difference for me was we had plenty of credit in 08-09. I’m startin to have to float payments between vendors. Now alls I gots are our preps, chickens and garden, (thanks wife). I’m blessed with two trades and see too many of other single trade contractors hurtin big time already and Chrlstn, SC is actually doin pretty good compared to most other places. I aint got no optimism cept what I can control myself and that may be less than I think. We keep like less than $500 in bank and on business cred card unless we have some big payment then xfer. Guess I’d rather have a handful of worthless $$, than just knowing its in bank and cant get to it-even if its worthless. Hard commodities are the things to have. Precious metals like brass and lead. I’m just having a hard time understanding how gold and silver would be used in chaotic transactions. Well… Semper Fi. III

        • Dawg,in the trades also(carpenter with builders license),is a weird economy,some doing great/some starving yet all about priced the same and excellent at their trades,just a lot of luck and connections I guess.As for metals short term help against inflation,survive chaos ect. might be helpful on the other side rebuilding assuming we come to that point,in between,just something buried somewhere.

          • Warchild

            Answered your ? about FN 5.7 in last post. Hope it helps.


                • You mean the one with the internal”dual tube”14 round capacity?!A interesting looking beast but at that price cannot afford,guess will have to stick with my old but trusted mossy 500(recoil stock and 18″ barrel of course)!The one thing reading up on pistol was not “armor piercing”unless ass 109 or such type steel core,not sure if true or not.My finances set at moment on more orphans and just any decent starting optics for .308,good luck getting the beast when time/funds coincide (will want a review of course!)

          • Trades here also (electrical contractor). Not much work here in N.NV. Many businesses still closing down. Just noticed yesterday the carquest auto parts store is closed up and the building is for sale.

      13. Second quarter of 2014.

      14. Not “if”, it WILL HAPPEN!.

        The shit is not that great, is if the thing is worse than Fukushima. If it does not in IIIWW glad.


        A suggestion, an interesting blog with interesting ideas:


      15. Only got one question – why is it everyone still thinks the USA is NOT already in recession ?
        It’s in economic depression now. It’s not coming, it’s here !
        Just like most of the Eurozone, the middle east and countless other small countries too insignificant to mention 😉

        • According to the textbook definition of a recession, the (highly manipulated) numbers don’t fit. If we let the left have their cake of claiming to have ended the recession in 2009 (too soon for it to have been Obama’s policies to have taken effect) then we can make a more solid claim that whatever disaster follows is on their heads. So rhetorically speaking it’s better to go along with it. How it plays out in real life and what I’ve even heard libs admit, is that it feels like the recession never ended. We need to prep accordingly and more recession is about to be poured on top of what we’ve still got.

      16. Perfect storm is coming!

        • I hear thunder…I see lightning flashing…there’s a storm coming. braveheart

      17. No empire lasts forever. Ours is near the end. TPTB can pull the plug whenever they choose. Trying to guess the date is foolish. Mathematically, what we have is simply not sustainable. The Fed seems like it has no choice but to continue QE. The last “deal” between the factions in DC is an indication that spending will increase. It has to increase just to maintain the same level of govt. activity, because of the dollar destruction. Should they decide to cut spending, rest assured it will be the programs that hurt the little guys. The theft and waste never gets cut. Theft is the only reason why these characters are in DC in the first place. Do you know where your congressman is tonight? Why not?

        • Maudy:

          The reason I can’t find my representatives tonight is because their heads are so far up the Zionist PTB’s butts that I can’t really identify any of them.

          • Zion yesterday – Zion today – Zion forever!

            • SilverSax….Are you a rap artist now?

              • TACTICAL: Rap Artist?!! by Jove! Perhaps a good Rapper “Star” new name for the msm medias could be.

                “WhiggyJiggy”! the New Rap sensation! with a Brand New style based on whigger Jiggerizims.

                First! He has to Pass an ebonics Test…Ok please describe in Modern English what this eboncis slang means.

                EBONICS: “HoDeDoHoDeDo”!

                It is Two africans Running to Catch an elevator inside a sky scrapper buildg, Yelling…. ENGLISH Translation: Hold The Door!…Hold The Door!

                • LOOOOL Them Guys. Good one.

                  • Tac-

                    Its kinda/sorta a play on words(ebonics), for instance…what is:




                    Al Sharpton’s phone number!

            • SilverSax, I don’t intend to get into arguing about the Jewish People, and I am usually in agreement with you. But your not really furthering the cause for Christ by trying to keep this fight going. Trekker Out. Christ Alone!

              • Let the Jew-haters shut up with their constant attacks and I’ll shut up with my defense of the Jews.

                • There’s something very wrong happening on this website. People are allowed to make comment after comment attacking an entire race of people, and very few, if any, replies are made to defend those who are being sucker-punched.
                  But let someone actually dare to stand up for them and suddenly the defender is the one who gets attacked.
                  I wonder what you’d do if you witnessed a mugging on a city street. From the looks of things here, most people in this community would turn their heads and ignore it.
                  Not me. I’m of the opinion that if you let the muggers have their way, soon you’re being mugged yourself, with no one to come to your defense. True, if you step in to defend the victim, you’re taking the risk that the attackers may turn on you – which has happened in this case.
                  But I couldn’t look at myself in the mirror if I didn’t step in to defend the People of God.
                  I don’t come here looking to get into fights. I’m here for conversation about SHTF/survivalism. So if you want me to shut up about defending the Jews, just remember that I didn’t start it. I just witnessed a mugging going on and tried to help.

                  I really would like for you people to look back over previous articles on this site. Look at all the unwarranted – and unchallenged – attacks on Jews. That might be okay with you, but not me.
                  Maybe it’ll lead to me being banned from this site. I don’t know, and I hope not. If it does, my self-respect will be intact.

                  • SilverSax…. I guess love must got to do with the way you feel. Are you related to
                    Jimmy Lee Swaggart by chance or maybe your are Jimmy? Do you remember his defense when was caught with a prostitute? He had the exact same self respect as you and your types.

                    You are just a weak soul. Weak souls are very easy to be manipulated and driven by satanic minds since they are simply weak and have no intellect to seek the TRUTH.

                    Merry CHRISTmas btw.

                  • Peace and love, Sax. Not all opinions are bigotry. Some are. You sound like you mean well. I suspect that you are a young person who feels that it is necessary to attack everything you disagree with. Sometimes it’s better to just use the thumbs down or thumbs up.

                  • To SilverSax: Finally, a person of integrity steps forward! I, like yourself, come to this website on occasion to read an article or two about the situation the country finds itself in. Much too often my stomach is turned by the outright anti-semitism of many who frequent this site. The vile comments, conspiracy theories, and constant lies about Judaism are disgusting. The hatred espoused by some people here is alarming and, I think, based in ignorance. So-called “truth tellers” are simply giving voice to their animosities and quoting centuries dead rabbis whose points of view do not comport in any way with Judaism as it’s been practiced for hundreds of years.

                    I dare any of the resident anti-Semites to actually visit a synagogue and learn about Judaism. Meet some real, flesh and blood Jewish people instead of hiding behind your anonymous computer spewing filth.

                    So, many thanks, SilverSax, for being a stand-up guy.

                • Ssax-

                  Let’s chill a bit, ok?
                  I am NOT slinging mud/trash at you, merely presenting something for your consideration.
                  ..merely something to think about.


                  You claim to be a Christian (that’s good, kudos to you) also appear knowledgeable of what’s printed in various biblical books, chapters in both the O.T. & the N.T. (again, sincere kudos to you) and you have quoted such in print, here on various thread-lines, in support of your position/belief system (again, kudos to you).


                  That said:

                  Please recall the scene in the gospel of John, where Christ is both chastising the Pharisees and identifying their “SEED-LINE” whom he said:

                  “..Ye are of thy Father, the devil(Satan)..he was a murderer from the beginning…father of lies…etc..etc”

                  ..please reread the entire dialog/verbal exchange between the Savior & the Pharisees, very closely OK?!?!?

                  You still with me, Ssax?


                  Tomorrow morning sometime, goto to a decent sized public library or your local collage library..head for the reference/encyclopedia section and look for either “The World Jewish Encyclopedia or the Encyclopedia Judicia”….select the volume “J”….open it to the word/definition of…..JEW…..and read it!

                  As therein, you will find, in their own encyclopedia, written by them and in their own words, the following sentence:



                  ..and if you’re still doubtful, do this:

                  Draw a picture of the ‘star’ emblazoned on the Israeli flag (two overlapping and inverted triangles).

                  *step #1) -count the number of points on the outside of said star and write that number down.

                  = (6)

                  *step #2) -count the number of small/tiny triangles around the perimeter of the star and write that number beside the first one.

                  = (66)

                  *step#3) -count the number of sides of the inner hexagram and write that number beside the other two.

                  = (666)!!!!!!!!!!


                  HELLO SILVER SAX!!!!

                  Recognize that final number????????????


                  Please reference…the name, the number and the mark…of the BEAST***.


                  See the book of “Revelations/Apocalypse” for details!!!!


                  You may want to seriously re-evaluate your support for that criminal enterprise we term (modern-day Israel) and its pharisaic DNA descendants world-wide, who continue to this day, to deny/blaspheme and curse…

                  ..the savior we accept, as the SON of GOD!


                  Good luck Silver Sax.

                  I hope the Spirit of GOD speaks to your innermost being and guides you onto the path of the real TRUTH!

                  • OMG!!! Not the dreaded 666!! Was not the son of The Lord a Jewish man? He was born, lived his life as one, and died a Jew. He never repudiated his religion, nor his people, with the exception of those who cared more for the worlds pleasures than serving The Lord. I know how hard that is for you anti-Semites, but it is what it is. No revisionist history on your part is going to change that. Deal with it.

                  • HUNTER: Parable of “WHEAT and TARES(weeds that Look same as wheat) ties IN to what You wrote of satanic SEEDS aka satan offspring etc,…The bible Must be read in context AND compared with Other verses like wheat and tares ties in with JOHN8:44 “You are Of Your father Satan etc etc.”

                    And when Christ Explained what His parable wheat and tares Means in the very next few verses He states Tares Look so close to wheat its best to wait till the Harvest when its matured and THEN way eaiser to ID tares from wheat. He also stated wheat is Gods children aka Christians which ties in with Galatians 3:29 “If You are Christs then You ARE the SEED of Abraham and also Heirs to the Promices made”…Who is Christs? Christians! certainly Not jews! They Hate Christ with a hatred passion like none other!..Hate that so blinds jews like we see here all they can do is scream vindictive vile names like nazis etc at us christians who Do tell truth.

                    In that wheat and tares parable Christ also ID’s Tares as Planted BY Satan when he Crept in unawares After Darkness of late night! and Planted weeds next to Us wheat/christians….And due to His stateing how resembelance is so close as to cause collatorol Dammage/death to the Good wheats, we Must await Harvest time to do that UProoting and casting into fire of the said weed tares…

                    WHO so closely resembles White folks that whites get blamed for stuff They did such as slavery and wars and revolts etc…The jews does. But once most jews get to age of maturity say the age of Over 40-50 Plus yrs old…Look how much eaiser to recognize between whites and jews if one is even a little jewised up.

                    Silver sax is so wrong headed its not funny, and more stuborn and Unwilling to admit when wrong than typical Lib dems and antigunner types are.

                    Like the zios here all he does is offer NO valid proof etc that we are wrong…Just typical smeers and vile name calling which of late is fast Loseing its Mojo as JQP says. People are sick and tired of being called vile names for speaking facts and truth on jew issues.

                    Silver sax’s last comment is chock Full of self contradictions and the typical method kommies use of claims of victimhood for this or that, yet it is THEY who do what they accuse others or Us of! So So So Typical sol alinsky tactics eh(alinsky is a kommie jew khazar also, figures eh!).

            • SilverSax:

              Scofield today – Scofield Tomorrow – Scofield Forever

              If that is where you have learned your Christianity I suggest you look up who Scofield was, who backed him in writing his version of the Bible (Rothschild) and what Rothschilds’ motive was.

              It is all there, SilverSax, let your fingers do the walking……

              • I’d suggest that he decline. They’d get covered in excrement all the way to the elbow, walking through your “sources”.

                • And you, Old Coach, where are your sources? Never see anything to back up your barbs….

          • OMG POG….LOOOOOL… Now I know why Dian Frankestien and Eric Cantor walk differently. First I thought it might be some form of medical condition but no there are many heads down there.

            I think we all need to send shampoo to DC via red cross.

      18. stupid article we have been in depression since 08 we wont be getting out either this is permanent

      19. “what are they going to do, start charging people who deposit money in banks?”

        Define money.

        They already are. It’s called inflation.

        The perfect Ponzi, paper money & frack-ional reserve banking. And the lotto. They take half now and over
        50% when you win and some states take your picture. How would you invest a large winning?

        • Never mind the indirect effect of inflation – there’s banks in Japan that are actually charging you negative interest on your account, right on the monthly statement.

          This is actually an unintended consequence of some regulatory BS that costs the bank so much to maintain small accounts that they have to do this to break even, but it’s a negative interest rate nonetheless. Intended to make you close your account and save them money.

      20. The 08′ recession ended? Whaaaaat?
        Then why are we (they) pumping 85bil a month into the banks? So they can buy commodities and inflate the stocks? I’m not really seeing any of this “improvement” in the economy. What a great scam. Have the taxpayers buy your stocks for you and NOT EVEN AN I.O.U.
        Party on!

        • Funny how we the taxpayers just took a $10bil hit on GM. I didn’t own any of that stock , so I had nothing to gain, only to lose. So I get to pay for that lousy investment? Shit, I’m losing money I haven’t made yet!
          I could do that by myself without any help from Uncle Sam.

          • Take heart. GM still has the UAW, and still has their monumentally screwed-up management, so they’ll fail again in a few years, and you’ll have a chance to make it back by shorting the stock, (if you time it right).

        • The 08′ recession ended? Whaaaaat?
          Then why are we (they) pumping 85bil a month into the banks?

          This confuses a lot of people so let me try to help clarify the situation. As we grind into depression there is a thing called wealth destruction. The 700 billion bailout was to offset the wealth destruction from the real estate tanking destroying all the mortgages held by banks. Now the Fed still has to pump 85 billion a month to the banks to keep the ponzi afloat because everyone is throwing the keys in and defaulting on cars, houses, business, etc. causing wealth destruction. Without the QE the banks would be bust and no one would be able to get anything done because the sad situation is the ONLY way for currency to get into the hands of the people it has to be LOANED through a bank.

          • Good observation there .02! About one in twenty get it.

            Economists called it deflation when I was in college, but wealth destruction is what it is. The one economic event that central banks cannot control, because it’s a psychological phenomenon, not a product of rational man. Not for nothing were deflations called “panics” in the 19th century. Booms = “everything’s 100% Santa Claus, all the way down”, until the little chillun stop believing in Santa Claus. Then it’s “Reality not only bites, it chews.”

          • Without the QE the banks would be bust and no one would be able to get anything done because the sad situation is the ONLY way for currency to get into the hands of the people it has to be LOANED through a bank.

            1. QE is wealth destruction, MY dollars are worth less by 85 bil a month.
            2. I have to repay those loans, not the banks
            3. I accept checks from the govt. Just make my portion of that 85bil/mo payable to me. Then the currency Will be in the hands of the people.

            • Mcdave: You have to look at the workings of the wheel itself (economy). It is formed on the misconception of unending growth in a finite world. Unstoppable force paradox, destined for wreckage. everything now must be controlled because if it was left to being a free market without QE, plunge protection in the markets,mark to market discovery, the crash would be more than the world could bear. As it is, they manipulators are trying to slowly deflate the pressure cooker but if history is a guide, it is not going to work, case in point, what happens to China when we the people of amerika simply cant afford any more of their plastic? The rest of the world is way past the point of being able to take up the slack of American’s brain dead shopping habits (unending growth, finite planet) and then the gears grind to a stop and the wheel falls off.

              • So, I think you are agreeing with me but it just sounds dirty when you say it.

            • I’m still waiting for my dividend check from the mess we funded in 2007/2008. 🙁

      21. Oh Noes! Not another ‘end of the fiscal world as we know it’ article! YES and there is a reason it keeps being repeated OVER &OVER. Because certain people would rather you stay ASLEEP and not notice how much worse the world has become. I would love to find someone who has been in a coma for the past 10 years (or more)and ask them what they think of the world today. My bet would be they want to be put back in a coma!

        Many people keep trying to put a ‘date’ on the ‘crash’ or the ‘SHTF event’ or some such. The date is NOW, yesterday and tomorrow. We have been sliding off the cliff for so long now that people don’t notice the angle of the earth under their feet any longer. Unless you are right at the edge of the cliff, you don’t see it yet because of the crowds all around you. People are vanishing over that edge every day, whether you admit it or not. YOU just haven’t been pushed close enough to the edge yet to hear them screaming as they go over. Our turn is coming, it is a steady tilt and loss of footing until we all go over.

        This isn’t just the United States either…this is worldwide. It’s all part of the global dog and pony show and nobody wants to admit it. The U.S. is in the most trouble however as we are just a nation of ‘consumers’ anymore…not producers. That is why this time will be much more different and painful than anytime in our short lived history.

        • Great post Socrates…..Thanks

          • Socrates-

            Good post, sir!

        • Socrates…That was Gooood !!!

          Most people are not going to listen….Most can’t seem to see what has already happened….what could/will happen and the fact it is the World…not just our little corner of it….

          I ask a lot of people if they ever study history…yes…history….and they usually reply “For What ??? ”

          And we do not know when or exactly what is going to take place….But damn….We are in and have been in a World of Shit for some time now and it seems like just a few of us smell it !!!

        • The dog and pony shows will continue past the point where the sheeple stop believing them, because dog and pony shows are all they’ve got. Once the panic starts, the bankers are dog meat, and they know it. (see post 2880691 above.) The Obamacare clusterbomb is looking more and more like the Sheeples’ Alarm Clock. In which case 2014 probably is the year. For which I am thankful. I am an old man, my health is not good, and I have long feared that I would go to my reward before seeing justice done.

          • Don’t be in a hurry, I enjoy your comments.

            • Oh, I’m in no hurry, but some things that doctors have said to me in the last 18 months or so lead me to believe that my healthcare is already being rationed.

        • There are alot of countries in worse economic condition than us. Japan for one. they hold the Most US bonds and have the highest gdp/debt ratio at 211%.

        • And right after cutting veteran’s benefits (if he signs the Murray- Ryan monstrosity), he’s off on a $4,000,000 trip to Hawaii.

      22. “The government won’t be able to save the economy”

        When did the government ever try, even just a little bit to save the economy?

        • Calvin Coolidge, 1921. Last time the Government did anything right.

          • Hey coach, correct me if I’m wrong but wasn’t that when the economy hit the shitter and went into a deep decline post WW1? And I believe the solution put forth was they left it alone to sort itself out in the market, and within 1 year the slide was over,{ although it was extremely sharp and scary} and the economy recovered rapidly on it’s own with NO government intervention.

            • Correct. Coolidge pretty much did nothing, except he CUT government spending to stay in line with reduced revenues.

              Exactly what an Austrian School economist would tell you to do today. And the exact opposite of what the Keynsian religion teaches.

              So, it’s been tried both ways. Which one worked, and which one didn’t?

              I’ve often thought that the rewason the Keynsian approach is so popular with politicians is that it gives them an excuse to throw around free money to buy votes. Austrian theory doesn’t encourage that.

      23. I know many people have predicted certain time frames for the collapse. At least this one seems well thought out. I don’t mind the predictions. We all know that it will happen eventually.
        I read this site and others for clues to the possible timing. It is the answer to that question we would all like to know. As long as the facts point to what the author is trying to predict I am fine with it. Better to know ones thoughts based on facts than not.
        There is one thing I know for sure. I society is getting worse by the day. You can all see it if you look. It is coming. I hope we are all ready when it does.

      24. The time is near. We’re on the highway to hell in the fast lane.

        Fortune favors the Brave! III%

      25. This is real simple. If the FED continues low interest rate loans to the banks, QE…. Stocks will continue to rise and the fund managers will continue to buy the crap because they will just tell the 401k holders, You… That this is a great thing. Remember that they have zero in the game. This is YOUR DEBT. Yes in your name! Next time you look at a USD please note the part where it states the bill itself reflects debt of the public. I’m not sure how long this can continue but I’m sure they will hold every tax pay hostage. They will use you 401k’s and guarantee the tax payers a return with interest. Problem is the sheep will fall for it because they will think this is the only choice. I think we all know that the commodities will win out here but when is anyone’s guess. From the chart supplied I see nothing saying 2014 is the end game. Buy commodities on dips and diversify all assets to be no more than 20% of your worth.


        Someone ask me what I do since I retired. I replied, “I am my wife’s sexual advisor.”

        Somewhat shocked they said “What do you mean by that?”

        “Very simple” I said. “My wife told me that when she wants my f#$%#@g advice, she’ll ask for it”……..

        • Pissed Off Granny…..

          I always look for your humor… keep it lively on here …..Thanks cause we all need a break…..

      27. IMHO, it could happen before the 2014 elections.

        Demoncrats are running from Obama and Obamacare as fast as they can. We are looking at a huge swing towards Republicans in both the house and Senate. Obama is toxic. And I predict he won’t be doing many campaign stops in 2014.

        Not that I’m big on Republicans. We could maybe get a veto proof House and Senate. Especially as some Demoncrats vote right to save their arses.

        So, Mr. O might try some crap after reading the writing on the wall.

        • Oh no, not again (almost)! Is next year really going to be the “BIG ONE”? Or will it be the “near crash” of 2009, or the “almost crash” of 2010, or the “perhaps maybe crash” of 2011, or even the “not quite yet crash” of 2012. 2013 is over and this will be known as the “we just missed it by the hairs of our chinny chin chins crash”. 2014 is shaping up to be the “possibility of a definite maybe crash”. And of course 2015 will be the year of the “I’m not kidding this time, this is not a drill crash”, ad infinitum and nauseam.

          • nope no crash, just the inevitable slow grind into the abyss.

          • Stick to your language studies Professor Higgins.

            • Sierra Dave: So then tell me please, when is this great event going to happen? I’ve been reading about this nonsense for decades and we’ve had a few small downturns but none of the “end of the world as we know it” events you and the other lesser evolved primates here believe is ‘just around the next corner’. It’s always been around the next corner, and the next corner, and the next corner since at least the early 70’s and it’s not here yet. But saps like you still hold on to any little thread of hope and still buy their books and tapes only now these fear-mongers are also selling all kinds of ‘survival supplies’ often referred to a the 4-B’s; ‘beans, bullets, band-aides, and bullion. And they are making millions off of your decades old fears. They don’t live in underground bunkers, they live in large homes in gated communities, send their children to private schools, and take lavish vacations on the money from your fears. The word that best fits you and most on this site who buy into this is “Sucker”! I know, it’s hard to have to realize that your entire pathetic little lives are based on absolute baloney. It’s got to be a hard pill to swallow. The dreaded collapse of all collapses didn’t happen in 2008,09,10,11,12, nor 2013. What makes you think that next year will be any different? Only your unwavering stupidity! And you will spend even more money preparing for “that day”.

              • You certainly aren’t a professor of paragraphs and sentences.

                I’m sure that if you lived back in Pompeii. You’d be talking with your neighbor saying that the smoking mountain was nothing to worry about.

                I do not know when the collapse will happen. Very few are actually predicting it. And why the Hell do you even come here.

      28. Just a thought on stocking up on ammo. 7.62×51-308 and 5.56-223 prices go up and down on supply and demand, because it is produced in bulk here in the US. But 7.62×39 which is used in AK47,clones and SKS is only produced in bulk in other countries. 7.62×39 is quite high when bought from US manufactures. And since there are millions of these weapons that use 7.62×39 this ammo could dry up not to be replaced, just by the stroke of a pen if they were to stop import of all ammo from other countries which could happen very easy considering our love for the UN. and TPTB. So while 7.62×39 can be had for around $240 for @1000 rds. even though it is steel cased most is noncorresive and functions quite well in these guns, What thinks you? Trekker Out. Si vis pacem,para bellum!

          • Ouch, and I was just checking prices for a HMR 17.
            Oh, well. 🙁

            • 17 hmr ammo is everywhere here. No .22 to speak of but a lot of 223, .06, 7mm mag, 270 etc. 38 and 357 are rare but a lot of 45 and 9mm. If you are thinking about getting a 17 hmr do it! Have one. love it.

          • was a member of the CMP when I was a kid

        • As far as 7.62×39 goes, that price is pretty good. And yes, if I had a rifle that took it, I’d buy now.

        • Wise thinking MT. Wolf, Bear, and Tula steel cased ammo is digested very well by the AK and SKS. I got a few rounds of it.

        • @MT…RE: Stocking up on ammo…

          You really gotta be watchin’ about what ammo works in your specific gun today. My .223 Norinko AK-47 never, ever had a problem until I fed some off-brand shells into it. Jammed liked a MF. Thought to myself…man, if this happened while under adverse circumstances I’d be completely screwed. Always carry a pair of needle-nose pliers on my belt when trundling around with an assault rifle ever since.

          • HD,on the AK’s @ least mine(Romak 1)have shot the wolf ect. without a issue,do avoid the corrosive primer stuff though.The only time I ever had a issue was that my extractor was loaded with junk as I did not clean the bolt on a regular basis as I should have,since including a full bolt breakdown in every cleaning not a problem.I am now still buying the wold but in brass and is not lacquered casing,works well for plinking and can reload to your own specs.

            • @Warchild…Wolf ammo is the best out there. Can’t remember the brand which caused the jamming but it was of Chinese mfg. and definite had something to do with the jacketing. Your point about better cleaning practices is also very valid, as this may have also been part of the problem.

              • Really like their brass stuff,wolf/tula ect. from what I understand are just buying groups that hit about 4-5 manufacturers,would stock up as much as possible on foreign as believe that will be one of the next straws to break camels back,enjoy the 47!The other thing learned hard way about ak’s is the bolt except rail ride hates oils including the pin ect.,seems to attract the powder ect.Since I cleaned extractor regularly and keep oil to bare minimum runs like a champ.

                • If it slides, grease it. If it rotates, oil it.

                • That seems to be what Wolf is – an importer/wholesaler buying where they can get the best products and prices.

                  I am lucky (prescient?) enough to have bought an adequate stock of Wolf Match .22s before the famine. It’s made in Germany by a top-flight manufacturer. A whole lot cheaper than Eley and about 95% as good in my old target rifles. Wish I’d bought a coupla cases, now.

            • War and HD:
              The best stuff that I found to clean up a weapon after using wolf or any other ammo with liquor on them is Carburetor cleaner. Just make sure you let it run out the barrel onto a rag with apiece of cardboard under it. It will be MESSY!!!!

              • Sarge,keep in mind carb cleaner death on wood stocks if not immediately cleaned,yep,ak is east block old school!I found this to be a great site and use some of the recipes (especially eds red): ,plus inexpensive to make,have posted before but worth a repeat,on a side note,did bookmark the aim scope,a bit less expensive then I thought,of course,looked up some of your “work optics”,hmmmm…,another material item desired,santa,you listening?1

              • You mean I can duplicate Wolf performance by dipping my handloads in Jack Daniels before I shoot ’em? Would Old Weller work better? It’s 107 proof after all.

          • HD74Man..always pack a back up or two also

            • @VRF…Good advice.

              Back-up is a 1911 Auto-Ordinance .45 in a side holster and S&W featherweight .357 in the ankle holster. Gotta say, the assault gun jam was a real eye-opener. Took forever to get that damn shell out. Fortunately, I was only out with a couple of friends target practicing. In a firefight, with no back-up, I’d have been dead meat.

              • HD:
                Right on that is why when I’m working I always carry two.

                • @Sgt. Dale…As a law enforcement expert, I gotta ask, what do you have in your ankle holster as a second or third carry?

          • I carry a homemade “extractor” with me in a handy spot so I can quickly clean out ant jammed casing…all the old timers carried one and I picked the habit up from my muzzle loader days…saves a lot of grief!

            Another thing folks might consider is a few steel traps in their stuff…trapping will feed you lots of times when game is scarce or laying low…I know it has me…

            • a great one is just a plain ole rat trap hooked to a string to keep in place. also get some wire and learn to make and set snares, easy to do and very effective even out to deer with positioned dead falls. youtube has a bunch of videos on the subject. snares are super cheap to make.

              • Yep,snares are great and effective…also you can carry a lot of them in a small area of your pack…no weight! 🙂

      29. Be safe! Be prepared! Be ever vigilant!

        Greater love has no one than this, than to lay down one’s life for his friends. John 15:13
        Between natural disasters , rising fuel prices, food prices, inflation, crime, soon to be food shortages ( due to colder than normal weather , and
        transportation problems ) then the fuel and food riots… time is almost up
        to get even your basic supplies ready and a plan of action. Equally as
        important is finding other like minded people you trust as close as possible
        to you. There is strength and safety in numbers. So check the below links to
        find those close to you and network
        Prepare by making essential preparations for yourself and your family to not just survive, but to thrive, if and when things get very difficult:

        Prepare food, water, clothing (especially for growing children/grandchildren) & shoes, fuel, essential drugs & medicines/vitamins, toiletries, medical supplies, guns, ammunition (when you run out, your guns are useless, and if you don’t have enough, you can’t keep your skills honed, so buy plenty),(gold & silver), and other essentials. If you have the resources, acquire enough for friends, relatives, neighbors, and other peers.

        Get your house in order, if it isn’t already. Prepare temporally and spiritually. Ensure that you will be part of the reason that God will side with us, because we’ve chosen to side with Him!
        For more preparedness info … PLEASE check the sites i help admin… If you have ANY questions at all please ask..

        Osceola County Mercury One .
        Mercury One website.
        Constitutional Militia links
        SECOM on facebook
        We are SECOM
        Main 9-12 Preppers Site
        9-12 prepper on Freedomworks
        The Chruch me and my family attend. Cornerstone Family Church

        All you can to is hope for the best but prepare for the worst. Of course
        putting your trust and faith in God.

        Good people, families , moms, dads, grandparents, normal people, just
        preparing for what we see is coming. We are willing to help others, in our
        communities but we have to work together. Preparing both spiritually and
        phsyically. “Every Race, Every Tribe, ONE AMERICA!”

        If you havent prepared for yourself and your family yet… do something
        now… time is up!


        support the USA and protect the Constitution! “Every Race, Every Tribe, ONE

      30. This mourning……Saudi Diplomat says that due to the West’s and Europe’s poor policy regarding Iran and Syria,
        Saudi Arabia is prepared to go it alone to secure peace and security in the region. Gee, I wonder what that means?

        • Dag nabbit! “morning”.

          • I think you were right the first time.

        • PO’d Patriot: In a short version it means: The camel riding tribe in the kingdom is sitting at the table with their Mossad brothers who are the experts at killing unarmed Palestinian women and children, with suitcases of petroleum money supplied by multi nationals corporations and doing the final hiring of man eating sub humans from other tribes to go and kill more women and children in Syria.

          • It seems Sausia aren’t too choosy either since Russia was approached first and turned them down.

            • Saudis…not sausia?? where did that come from?

            • Russians wouldn’t help the Saudis on a bet. They are at loggerheads over who will control Syria, and thereby control marketing of the new oil finds in Azerbaijan.

      31. Face it…

        You’re all a bunch of misfits. (Me, too)

        And that’s not really a bad thing considering what is coming down the pike for everyone in the next few years.

      32. When Ben Bernanke said he would drop money from helicopters, he was not lying. This is how a private insurance company AIG got bailed out in 2008.

        In fact, at the time, the Fed could have bailed out anyone they chose including any Main Street business it wanted. Pizza parlor, massage parlor, building contractor or any small business it chose. Credit could have reached any business or individual that needed it.

        This loophole in the Federal Reserve Act Sec. 13.3 was closed by the Dodd-Frank Act. Now the FRNs will never reach Main Street. It will only be extended to the large banks to prop up their usury churn and cover up their insolvency.

        The reason for the QE (in my opinion) is to make credit available for the continuation of money losing fracking, deep oil and Arctic exploration.

        The economy is being drained of 600 billion more each year than 10 years ago for the price of oil.

        If credit for this oil “money sink” dries up, well drilling shuts down and the economy crashes.

      33. Find and identify the criminal bankers. Locate and identify the politicians in their pockets. Commission a law enforcement agency that is not dependent on funding granted by the politicians. Charge those politicians and bankers; give them a fair trial and hang them.

        • @Swingin’ Richard…RE: Find and identify the criminal bankers. Locate and identify the politicians in their pockets. Commission a law enforcement agency that is not dependent on funding granted by the politicians. Charge those politicians and bankers; give them a fair trial and hang them.

          Shoulda been O’Bama’s first order of business upon taking office. First beheadings should been Barney Frank of Massholeland and Chris Dodd of CT, who orchestrated all those mortgage programs for future deadbeats thru FMNA and FDMC, who are now dead and busted, but with a bazillion bad underwater loans still left in the trough. Of course he f*ckin’ blew it.

        • There should’ve been several other angry parents right behind him, standing up so it doesn’t happen to their child next.

          • Amen

            my kid is already homeschooled
            but I can tell you this , if that were my kid, that would have been his last day at that public detention center called public school

      34. Cravenheart: you see and hear a storm, from where, under your bed in your mom’s basement?

      35. What did Clint say, in the movie, “The Unforgiven”,
        to the town folk about respecting his dead friend ?

        ” I’ll come back and kill you, your wife, your kids,
        your dog, all your family, and all your friends…”
        That’s what all these commies can expect………….

        100 heads MoFo’s

      36. ALL members of our government are corrupt from the top down and need to be replaced if we are to restore our country. That is all there is to it and this “getting a politician or two in at the state and local community level” crap ain’t gonna do a damn thing! It’s ALL or nothing. Take your pick. No compromise! No half-ass bullshit! ALL or nothing! All of us must resist this tyrannical government together or not at all. Plain and simple.

        • The lunatic is in the hall
          The lunatics are in my hall
          The paper holds their folded faces to the floor
          And every day the paper boy brings more.

          And if the dam breaks open many years too soon
          And if there is no room upon the hill
          And if your head explodes with dark forebodings too
          I’ll see you on the dark side of the moon.

          • Pink.

            • which one is pink?

              • The lyrics .02 posted, are from “Pink Floyd”, from the album “Dark Side of the Moon”. They are notable for flying huge pink pigs at their concerts.

      37. All the Government does is take away all your rights and freedoms. It’s all about control my sheeple.

      38. All I can say is to keep prepping! We have heard for the last several years that this year is the year if falls apart.

        For me I say bring it on, I’m ready. I just hope a pray that it is not as bad as I think it is going to be.

        We have mid term election coming. It will more than likely be after the election. If there is an election.
        Obullshit could pull off some more false flags, Israel and Iran could start a war. Who knows?

        The Bible has story about 12 virgins. 6 of them burned all their oil out of their lamps and they couldn’t go into the wedding, the other 6 planned for this and had oil left and the got to go into the wedding. The moral of this story for today is, Plan for it today and it will get you in to tomorrow and beyond.
        That isn’t the Bible meant but it fits for today. The bottom line is keep prepping.


      39. Frankly, we’re looking at worse than a recession. We’ve actually been living in a Depression since really 2007 as the fuse was lit.

        There’s only a few options for the government, and it’s not going to preserve the US Dollar. As long as there’s confidence and faith of the Greenback, the Federal Reserve and government will seek to destroy and redirect it.
        People should stop looking at the Dollar as a desired to continue currency; it’s not.
        The only options available are classics:
        1). Redirect the currency into an alternative currency that holds the capacity of the same function that people decry the Dollar for and takes a leap towards a desired currency platform.

        2). Domestic warfare, civil war, revolutionary, or democidal.

        3). Major international conflict.

        The true irony is all three appear to be primed.

      40. The only thing that has expanded over the last 5 years is Unemployment, Poverty and the top 1% financial wealth, that has been redistributed and transfered to them from the poor and middle class. So who will suffer in a so called upcoming Recession? I suggest the solution to all of this are Renewed Public Square Hangings for all the Bankster Thieves and Criminal Politicians.

      41. Really interesting. There was no earthquakes on the western part of the Pacific Ocean yesterday and the day before, everything was on the eastern part of it. Today everything but one quake in South America is now on the western part of the Pacific. It is like the Pacific Ocean and the plates under it are sloshing back and forth getting ready to unleash a very major quake. I would not want to be in the south Pacific around New Guinea to Samoa and down to Fiji to north island new Zealand. I would not like the idea either of being in Central America or South America either. These areas seem the most likely to get hit soon. Japan and China/India along with Alaska still remain hot also, but just not as much so as the Australian, Nazca, and Cocos plates.

      42. We’re in the middle of a 5 year recession or depression. Unemployment and GDP numbers are faked. If you adjust GDP by real inflation numbers, the GDP numbers are negative. And of course, the number of people still in the workforce continues to decline every month.

        And that doesn’t even address the way GDP numbers are juiced. My personal favorite is imputed rent for people who own their own home and live in it. So the rental value of my home is probably $750 a month. That’s added to GDP.

        We are going to see the depression get worse next year as people lose their insurance or see their insurance costs double and their deductibles go up by $5,000. That’s going to be a lot of money coming out of the economy. Besides all the full time jobs that were destroyed by obamacare.

        • Barn Cat

          Is there a “Cooking the books” cookbook somewhere? Since they stopped inputting food and fuel in the CPI a couple of decades ago I continue to be surprised at their ability to create false statistics. Someone should make a book about all the official reports and in simple terms how and why they’re bogus.

          • John Williams at has given some examples of things that were added to GDP: text books going with color photos instead of black and white ones; improvements in computers and presumably, cell phones, TV’s, and cameras.

            • One definitive list would sell like hotcakes. It would have to be simple and to the point without embellishment.

          • “Endgame” by John Mauldin came close. I’m in his “Code Red” now. One chapter a night, so I have time to digest.

          • There’s a real old joke from my college days, (when our handheld calculator was a slide rule):

            Ask an arithmetic teacher “What’s 2×2?” She says “Four”

            Ask an engineer: He whips out his slide rule and says: “Approximately four”

            Ask an economist, he answers: “What do you want it to be?”

            • Actually, I think we’d be better off if we had the economists predicting the weather…

              ..and the weathermen(meteorologists) forecasting the economy!!!!

            • Same thing when explaining the difference between a bookkeeper and an accountant.

        • BC…you got that right!

      43. When half the people realize that they do not have to work because the other half will take care of them and the other half realize it is no good to work because they will not receive what they work for, we are finished as a nation.

      44. you can thank the NSA and all of government for our economy continuing to tank

        Cloud computing? dead. IBM? dead. Apple? dead. Microsoft? dead. Oracle? dead. Adobe? dead. Facebook, Twitter, Google, HP? You got it?

        NSA, killed the only functioning part of the US economy

        Do you think any foreign government or company will use any US software or computer hardware in the future? Not only that, but they won’t even connect to US based networks.

        • VRF

          Thanks for that insightful perspective. I never thought to connect those dots.

          Great post.

        • What a web they’ve woven eh…pull a thread…any thread…

        • VRF

          Not seeing it where I work, the kids I work with can’t seem to get their noses out of their smart phones to do their jobs… aggravating.

          Country girl

          • Kids maybe .. But no big foreign countries will buy large or any orders of US made computing or software programs from this country
            Kids are not mostly awake , I think you missed my point

      45. Tomorrow, Thursday, Gander Mountain is supposed to be having an ammo sale. At least, that’s what I was just told.

        • Alas no GM within a couple hundred miles of here to my knowledge… 🙁

          • Reb,again Warchild to the ammo rescue!Gander mountain at moment free shipping including ammo.That said check ammoseek .com daily,compares pricing ect. of many different dealers,also check out slick,daily deals there,happy shopping and .308 makes the perfect holiday gift,hint hint!

            • Thanks friend!

              • No problem,there are too many orphans out there(@ the moment!).

      46. I’ve read the comments on here; and there are some very valid; astute points made. For me though; the REAL Death Knell for the United States; and the point that precludes everything else; is WHEN; not IF the Dollar loses its status as The Worlds Reserve Currency. THAT event; in my mind; is truly going to be the starting point to a truly Mega SHTF. Everyone here; I think; can survive a really hideous Recession. But when the Dollar is gone for good; all bets are off. Just my 2 cents.

      47. 10 billion less ha! A joke right. No outcome changer….

      48. Hi all…watching fox business (fed to start tapering in January) They are interviewing the CEO of overstock dot com (Byrne) He studied under milton friedman. Here are some of his comments:

        “easy money policies are propping up retail sales and a way to prop up the rich”

        “Them saying they are going to taper in january is a bit like you and I saying we’re going to go on a diet in January. I don’t think they can taper, if they do taper we’re going to slip back into a recession. DON’T BELIEVE ANYTHING THEY SAY.”

        “the fed are enabling the federal government to run enormous deficits and buying the IOUs because no one in the world will buy them anymore.”

        “The whole treasury market is being propped up by the federal reserve.”

        ‘I don’t believe at all in the recovery.”

        on Obamacare….”The whole point is so that you cannot keep your doctor or healthcare”

        Just for you to share with those folks who don’t believe “it’s the economy stupid”

      49. We have been hearing about the stock market crash for the last 5 yrs….. More BS to sell gold/silver/ammo/survual supplies….???
        Well the sky hasn’t fallen so far….

        On the other hand…..

        U/E rate a 7%…. I say utter BS on this one… More Marxist spin by the MSM, as they try to make everything come up roses. Try looking for a job that pays anything in the Northeast. There are none….. No ones hires anyone over 50 anymore…..
        No companies are hiring because of zer0care, while companies are awash with cash, most decent paying jobs are now sent overseas, major companies are not spending any Capital $ on projects here in the US(except for ND Bakken Oik fields and in Texas.

        I can’t figure this out where we are going….?????????

        Just be prepared……

        • It’s like your grandpa is 95. Every year someone predicts he’s going to die. It never happens. Now you have idiots in your family who say he will live forever.

          We’re going to have a complete economic collapse. It’s a 100% certainty. Every year it appears more imminent than the last. Will 2014 be the year? Could be. Don’t know.

      50. We have been hearing about the stock market crash for the last 5 yrs….. More BS to sell gold/silver/ammo/survual supplies….???
        Well the sky hasn’t fallen so far….

        On the other hand…..

        U/E rate a 7%…. I say utter BS on this one… More Marxist spin by the MSM, as they try to make everything come up roses. Try looking for a job that pays anything in the Northeast. There are none….. No ones hires anyone over 50 anymore…..
        No companies are hiring because of zer0care, while companies are awash with cash, most decent paying jobs are now sent overseas, major companies are not spending any Capital $ on projects here in the US(except for ND Bakken Oik fields and in Texas.

        I can’t figure this out where we are going….?????????

        Just be prepared……

        • 21 Bravo: I overheard two guys talking in the locker room the other day, saying that burger flippers were getting $14 per hour in the Bakken.

          Construction tradesmen are in short supply in Arizona as the Illegals moved to California, Illinois, and the Northeast.

          Just saying, that’s what I heard. 🙂

      51. Many gamblers (investors) are buying stocks on margin. Very high rates of margin. Big trouble waiting to happen. Mortgage applications at 13 year lows. What real estate recovery? Part time workers can’t buy homes. Big trouble in River City.

        • margin calls will leave many high and dry. tssk tssk tssk

        • Buying Stocks on margin was a contributing cause for the Great Depression and was stopped by Glass-Steagall which was completely abandoned by the Clinton Administration in 1999 after being watered down for the previous two decades.

          “The more things change the more they remain the same”.

      52. It sure would be nice to be out of debt. Just as I get there…along comes college costs.
        Seems they have us for life.

        It sucks living in an age of currency collapse.

        I still remember gas at 79 cents as a boy.

        • Gas was 56.9 when I came to Wisconsin at age 19. I started out at the foundry making about $5.60 or so an hour. I could buy almost 10 gallons of gas with my gross hourly wage.

        • Money spent on college is a waste. All those college students get at graduation is a worthless scrap of paper that’s is as common as tree leaves. Wal Mart is full of employees that have degrees.

      53. What? Excuse me! I know I’m late to the conversation but The Fed’s are not out of bullets !!!

        • No, the Fed isn’t. We could have QE at a trillion a month if necessary. Eventually we’ll see that.

      54. The government can’t even save themselves. They think they’ll be safe in their little underground bunkers when all Hell breaks loose.

        Isaiah 22:16 What hast thou here? and whom hast thou here, that thou hast hewed thee out a sepulchre here, as he that heweth him out a sepulchre on high, and that graveth an habitation for himself in a rock?

        They can’t hide from God.

        • we need to make shure the under ground cities like Mt weather become toombs.

      55. The better question to ask is this: why haven’t we seen greater unrest and civil disturbance since 2008?

        My answer would be this: the system is not stupid and has the upper hand in a thousand different ways. The science of mass control in advanced ‘democracies’ is well ahead of anything the public knows or understands. And it works. Ben at the Fed knows this and so does the prez.

        There are always a small number of people who will bitch and whine, but most people will stay in line because they will have more to lose than gain by rioting or violently reacting against the state.

        Just think of the debt levels most are carrying, or the amount of wealth they have lost and need to regain, or think about the dangers of getting a bad-ass e-trail and you can’t travel or fly?

        If the system has a crisis in 2014-2015 (which is the plan anyway) it will be an organized one leading to a desired outcome: a one world currency system.

      56. There could be a recession in 2014 ? Where has this guy been? We already are in a recession. a recessionin 2014 would be no change from 2013 or 2012 . we are in a recession that started before the bush boy left office. And during Obamas watch it has become gradually worse. A slow simmering decline many places have more out of work folks than during the depression of the 1930,s. the only change possible is a deep depression.

      57. Recession in 2014: “The Government Will Not Be Able to Save the Economy”
        – In a related development, it has been recently discovered that, contrary to popular belief, uranium pills do not cure radiation sickness.

      58. I don’t like how Lira keeps using the word “populism” to describe what, in effect, is just as much a case of leftism or socialism. It would be more populism if the pols who want to raise income taxes on the wealthy also want to lower VAT taxes. But in just about all cases, most of those politicians don’t.

        Lira gives away his peculiar left-leaning biases when saying that France’s former president was an idiot and says nothing about the idiocy of Holland.

      59. John Q. Public says:
        Comment ID: 2884747

        -I agree with most of what you say.
        I really have no interest in personally attacking you for your religion, but the changeable impermanent nature of LDS doctrine is certainly no reflection of the omniscience or omnipresence of God, only the feverish whims of fallen men.
        – I really don’t consider a disagreement to be an attack. A statement or a defense of your position is not, in my mind, an attack. While there is no shortage of feverish whims in this world what you see as the impermanent nature of LDS doctrine I see as adapting implementation of eternal principles to contemporary circumstances, much in the way in the Roman Catholic Church it is no longer a sin to eat meat on Friday. What was a cultural observance that served an important educational function outlived its necessity and was changed. That does not invalidate the principle on which it was founded.
        You may be different but I have found that most people who say they disagree with our doctrine don’t actually know much about it. What they don’t like is usually the culture, which is all most people see.

        • The abstinence from meat on Fridays is/was a discipline, NOT a doctrinal or moral principle per se, so can be changed by legitimate authority. The unchangeable doctrinal and moral principle is that men must atone for their sins whether in this life or the next.

          It is worth mentioning this as a sad example of the wicked Church MEN that plague us.

          The PROPOSED change was that Pope JP II (some believe Wojtyla the Worst an Anti-Pope, explaining why the world loved him so) stated that IF a national conference of bishops petitioned to SUBSTITUTE A DIFFERENT PENANCE, the abstinence form meat on Fridays could be lifted in that nation. In response the USCCB (US Catholic Conference of Bishops) simply announced that the Friday abstinence was lifted. No substitute penance was proposed. The bishops were never disciplined for their illegitimate change. Many of the monsters among us teach the heresy that there is no longer personal sin (sodomy, abortion, etc.), but only social sins (e.g., not recycling). Insane theology.

          The abstinence has perennially been a penance in self-denial to reduce our future time in Purgatory (the red-thumbers will love that).

          The USCCB’s elimination of the year ’round penance is a reflection of the Judeo-Protestantization of the Novus Ordo (“New Order”) Church. As the Pharisees did and then the Protestants followed, the Novus Ordo has concealed and over-written God’s Law—what Jesus damned as “voiding the commandments of God for the traditions of men” Mark 7:6-9.

          Now the Novus Ordo Church teaches as the Jews and the Protestants do—that one’s tribal affiliation or crying “Lord, Lord” is all it takes to enter Heaven. The itchy ears of men, of course, love to hear such “there is no sin or punishment” doctrines of men. What they hear at the Judgment Seat will not so soothe their itchy ears.

          My understanding of LDS authority and doctrine is rather rudimentary, but confirmed by my knowledgeable LDS friends as accurate, and probably sufficient for my needs.

        • I thought to add this—SOME of what I have observed and experienced of LDS culture is VERY positive—faith-centered families, strong work ethic, preparedness, responsibility, evangelization of the faith. Some has also been negative—a tendency to be exclusionary (try earning a living in an LDS town if you are not LDS), a love of money, and an affinity for Zionism.

          As far as doctrine, of course you know that Catholicism and Mormonism are adversaries.

          PRACTICING Catholics, by that I mean TRADITIONAL LATIN MASS Catholics, share the positives—faith-centered families, strong work ethic, preparedness, responsibility, evangelization of the faith. On average we tend to be insular—insulating our families form the evils of the world as best we can—though not exclusionary. We do not oppose money, only the LOVE of money and, because of perennial, infallible, and unchangeable doctrine, we are serious enemies of Judeo-Zionism and Judeo-Communism.

          • My understanding of L.D.S. authority and doctrine is rather rudimentary, but confirmed by my knowledgeable L.D.S. friends as accurate, and probably sufficient for my needs.
            – I guess that depends on your needs. You don’t really need much L.D.S. doctrine to be a Catholic, nor should you.
            Some has also been negative—a tendency to be exclusionary (try earning a living in an L.D.S. town if you are not L.D.S.), a love of money, and an affinity for Zionism.
            1: I have heard this enough to think it is true in some areas. On the other hand, try making a living a catholic community if you ARE L.D.S..
            2: Most people love money, as far as I know. On the other hand we have the highest percentage of full tithe payers of any religion I have heard of, and that does not include other offerings freely given. There is also quite clear and specific instruction to avoid unfair business practices and get-rich-quick schemes (including lotteries and raffles).
            3: I don’t know what to say about an affinity for Zionism, since I have never seen it myself and it is not a doctrinal issue. Unless you mean something other than I do by the word Zionism.
            As far as doctrine, of course you know that Catholicism and Mormonism are adversaries.
            Of course, and always will be, in my opinion; but not necessarily enemies. We both hold the concept of Keys to be essential and disagree on who holds them. This is basic doctrine and the fundamentally irreconcilable issue.
            In other ways we are a lot alike. Your concept of Purgatory as a place between physical death and final assignment in eternity where we are further “cleansed” is not strange to us. We know it as Spirit Prison or Paradise (depending on your condition at the time of death) and we see it as a time of learning the Gospel in order to be able to legitimately choose to accept or refuse it.

      60. They can’t lower interest rates any further than they have—what are they going to do, start charging people who deposit money in banks? lmfao…..ummmmm yes……anyone heard of the bail in? Cypress anyone?

      61. This article is wrong when it says obama admin is helpless. THEY are not helpless. the collapse is being orchestrated. wake up!

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