Massive Downward Revisions Imminent: National Association of Realtors Miscounted Millions Of Home Sales Over Last Five Years

by | Dec 14, 2011 | Headline News | 178 comments

Do you LOVE America?


    Just when you thought you could trust the National Association of Realtors, a new shocking report from the NAR itself says that they have miscounted the amount of existing homes that were sold for the last five years.

    The National Association of Realtors said a benchmarking exercise had revealed that some properties were listed more than once, and in some instances, new home sales were also captured.

    “All the sales and inventory data that have been reported since January 2007 are being downwardly revised. Sales were weaker than people thought,” NAR spokesman Walter Malony told Reuters.

    “We’re capturing some new home data that should have been filtered out and we also discovered that some properties were being listed in more than one list.”

    Source: CNBC

    While NAR hasn’t revealed exactly how big the revision to home sales will be, the agency’s chief economist Lawrence Yun said the decrease will be “meaningful.”

    “For the real estate business, this means the housing market’s downturn was deeper than what was initially thought,” Yun said.

    Source: CNN

    California-based analysis firm CoreLogic claimed earlier this year that the NAR may have misrepresented sales numbers by as much as 20%. It turns out CoreLogic was right. The NAR has now admitted that they made a mistake in how their data were counted. In the last twelve months 4.9 million homes were sold in the U.S. Over five years we’re looking at around 20 million homes, which suggests that the NAR’s “mistake,” if CoreLogic’s estimates are correct, may involve up to4 million home sales that never happened or were double counted.

    While NAR’s mistake may deserve the benefit of the doubt, given what has transpired in the financial, economic and real estate sectors we’d be remiss if we didn’t mention that NAR’s realtors, mortgage lenders, and banks likely benefited from such a massive padding of the numbers. Off by a few thousand? OK, we’ll give that to you. Off by several million? That suggests this was no mistake at all, but rather, an intentional fraudulent act designed to keep optimism up, home prices up, and revenues coming in to sales agents and the NAR itself.

    The NAR’s data have been, in part, used as evidence of economic recovery. We now learn that the numbers are pure conjecture.

    There’s no reason for concern, however. Even though home prices undoubtedly benefited from the false perception that millions of homes were being sold and the market was bouncing back, Reuters reports that this latest revelation will have no negative impact on the market.

    “The benchmark revisions will be published next Wednesday and will not affect house prices.”

    We were worried there for a minute, but apparently there’s nothing to see here and we can just move along.


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      1. “These are not the droids you’re looking for.”
        (Jedi Mind Trick)

        • Jedi mind tricks don’t work on Toydarians or preppers.

      2. AM I first? Doesn’t really matter, everything for the last 50 years has been a lie anyway.
        But since I’m looking to buy a house how will this effect the market in Nebraska? That’s what I want to know.

        • Hi MM2nuke,

          I use to do Real Estate Develpoment projects, and luckily got out with my shirt in 06 just before the big crash. (Even by mid 06, the price drop instantely wiped out the profit margin and put all the units on cost par.)

          To answer your question:

          If your a seller or current owner, there will a continuing drop in values both explicit and implicit. This being the actual numerical value of a homes price (explicit), and because after the euro goes down the toilet, the US Dollar will initially increase in value, but that will be short term phenomenon. The dollar will then begin to deteriorate as the dollar begins to hyperinflate (implicit), which technically is already occuring.

          For the buyer, it could mean a nice house at a price that is 10%, 20%, even 30 or 40% below todays price, but when the bottom drops out of the job market who has money to make a 15 or 30 year committment?

          The reality is, the western economies are being intentionally imploded by the International Banksters to reduce us all to supplicants and wards of the State.

          This will allow them to have the ultimate responsiblity of feeding us, which THROUGH out human history has been the best way to get control over a population.

          Then the exterminations start, as it the NWO’s agenda to get rid of all the cockeroaches like you and me so that the dwindling reserves of irreplacable resources (like oil) will be available to ensure THEIR lifestyles and children for hundreds of years to come.

          Time to label the US Federal Gov’t, The International Banksters and the Rothchilds the Global Terrorists they are, sieze ALL their assets, and HANG the lot of them.

          JD – US Marine – Furious At The Destruction Of Our Country.

          • here here, bully bully…..
            All th senators and congressmen who voted for this last asty bill should be hanged by the neck,end of story!!
            They are all traitors to the people and will be as usual.
            I am sure they exempted themselves from any kind of retribution needed!
            I am fed up with government….PERIOD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

          • Irreplaceable resources ARE dwindling, and the population will have to be reduced. I agree with you that I don’t want some group of elite international bankers deciding who gets to live (them), but the population has grown to an unsustainable size and will be forced to get smaller either by natural selection or through selection by elites.

            • So you thumbs-down cowards going to challenge my assertions with comments of your own? If you disagree with me then put your money where your mouth is and say why.

            • Which resources would that be? Maybe you mean those resources, from food to oil, that are fast being bought up and controlled by the elites who in turn have convinced people like you that if we all don’t commit mass suicide and/or commit ourselves to WWIII … we’re all gonna die?

              America alone has enough resources for self sustainability for 100’s of years. In whose hands are those resources?

            • Selfishness and greed, arrogance and utter stupidity, these are the things that destroy men’s hearts. Do you think the creator new of this in advance. Do you think the resourses were placed here intentionally before creation. Do you think it is our, your or anyone else’s decision too decide who lives and who dies? Do you think it was given to us in abundance to share? If not read again the first sentence! Cowards no those who speak the truth neither cower nor retreat, those who don’t accept a creator will stand in shame! But today everyone thinks they are a little god! God will mock when your calamity comes! You see, its not our decision to make.

            • Yes, you make these bold assertions without any backing evidence from creditable, scientific sites, publications or journals. Why would we believe you because YOU say so?

              If that were the case, I’m God, send me cash. 🙂

            • You said “I agree with you that I don’t want some group of elite international bankers deciding who gets to live” Yet you legitimize this group by making it seem like its an option. It’s an option we shouldnt stand for. Thumbs down. Thats why.

            • If the environmentalists get their way, it will have to happen. This planet cannot possibly support seven billion humans using 19th century farming methods. Acknowleging this is not the same as advocating it.

            • @Moon:

              Thumbs up here, but I doubt that any ‘elites’ will be the ones deciding. Even if there were some cabal trying it, the mass of humanity and global economy is too great to handle by any legitimate theory, let alone any group of human beings. Anyone who tries will only accelerate the crash.

              IMHO, if there’s any theory at all that’ll decide who lives and dies post-collapse? it’ll be Darwin’s.

          • The reason there was the “Big Crash” is because Real Estate prices were artificially way too high in the first place. The Reason? Selfishness and Greed. By whom? Primarily those that created the high prices (Banks, Mortgage Lenders, Real Estate Agents, Real Estate Developers, etc.) followed by those who got caught up in the frenzy (home and property buyers/sellers).

            It was another massive ponzi scheme and those who were making big bucks in the early and mid decade knew it was, and took advantage of the masses.

            The falling prices weren’t/aren’t falling, no, they are returning to the norm. If anyone says they are falling or crashing, then they don’t get it or want to get it or are trying to paint the reader a picture that is based on not how the scam works, but how they can look innocent.

            Not all, but most Real Estate agents/Developers are the lowest of the lowest. Con artists at best. Snake oil salesmen.

            What also helped to exacerbate and compound the problem of high prices was home owners became addicted to the equity in their artificially high priced home and used the equity as an revolving ATM credit card.

            Let’s be honest. It comes down to the lost of Integrity from all involved.

            • EA you are absolutely correct. There is no housing crash. What there is is a return to reality. The reality is that from 1890 to 2006 (and before that, but this time period has had its numbers crunched), the average house costed 2-2.5x the average wage of a person. In this case “average” applies to median, not mean.

              The fact is, that people getting into the real estate ponzi scheme were facillitated by a government who wants us all to be land serfs, tied to land we don’t really own (try not paying your taxes on it), or living in massive rental communities.

              Look at your community’s median income. The median income in this area is about 25k/year. The average cost of a house, 150k. That’s nearly 3x too much money. No one can afford the house, realistically. We certainly aren’t running out of land, the Federal Government has merely seized a ton of it. In the western states the Federal government may own more than 70% of the land (depending upon the state). The truth is that housing, historically, has been affordable. At some history points, ACRES were given away. With progressive era decay, we got zoning laws. These zoning laws have facillitated in saying what land is off limits. That’s why you’re lucky to live on a 1/2 acre, or even 1/4 acre lot.

              Until you see a median housing price for existing homes (not brand newly built ones) that is 2x the median income in you area, then you are ebing fleeced. The price of a house is not meant to go up, unless your dollar is being destroyed, plain and simple. If you (not you specifically, but whoever reads this post)think your home is an “Investment” then you are either ignorant or highly misinformed. There’s no reason that decaying wood and sheetrock should double in value over the course of a few years. None. Oh well there is that one: the Federal Reserve destroying your purchasing power, but I repeat myself.

            • European American: You have no idea what your talking about. The Real Estate Broker/Agent doesn’t set the price, the price is set by what the Market will bare at that time. Greed is a contributing factor but not in EVERY case. What you call con artist/snake oil salesman is hired by the property owner to market their property for a fee. They don’t preform, they don’t get paid.You’re wrathh would be better directed at the government/politiciann where it belongs, not at working private citizen.

            • There was a real estate bubble because the Federal Reserve created one by artificially low interest rates. Other groups helped it along in various ways but the Fed made it possible.

            • EA is right here. The people crying about real estate prices “crashing” are the same ones who were just a few years ago crying that homes had become “unaffordable’ for many. A home is not a “wealth building tool” (investment property is different and not without risk). A home is a place to go to get out of the elements and sleep in relative safety.

              Every real estate agent I have ever met was basically a prostitute (maybe I only met the bad ones) and would tell me anything to close a deal. Every American owning a home is really the dream of the NAR.

              America largely fell for the “service economy” lie where you managed my retirement funds, I cut your hair, and we flipped houses to each other in our spare time.

          • How in the hell could a quote “Professional organization” quote unquote, like NAR accidently miss critical stats such as these by 20%? I bet they wouldn’t miss their 6% commissions by 20% would they? These people are nothing but a gang of rabid ferrets in leased Mercedes, sucking off of society. As the commercial goes; Your real estate professional wants you to know a home is your best investment. REALLY? No shit! And they will only misguide you by 20% and stab you 6%. Not to mention; remember back in 2005 or there abouts, they could get anybody qualified to buy anything. These assholes were as complicit in the meltdown as Barney Frank, Freddie Mac, Fanny Mea. But nothing happened to them they just sit there and raked in the money by the truck loads. The NAR needs to be raked over the coals, completely discredited and a somebodies ass needs to be in a sling.

            • just generally speaking The NAR has no credibility to lose

          • NOW i understand you really are a troll, piece of trash,,if you were really marine, you would have the talents to go after the ROTHCHILDS AND ROCKEFELLERS…you are a fat piece of shit looking for targets for the drones to bomb the shit out of…YOU TRAITOROUS PHUK!!!!

        • You’re first in my book MM. Which 57 states are you buying in?

      3. Integrity, the quality of being honest and having strong moral principles, is disappearing from ALL systems in America and around the world.

        THIS is how the COLLAPSE is manifesting on the planet.

        When the absence of integrity becomes the norm, as seen by the massive numbers of people in America lying and deceiving to get ahead, then who can we trust?

      4. Yip another bunch of lies progated by real estate companies hoping to infuse confidence in the markets. is the time to…Take lots of risk and borrow and spend at your own peril. Be forever enslaved to your debt. Yea employment numbers are down to 8.6%..oops forgot to tell you 300,000 who stopped looking for jobs didn’t get included in the govt. stat. Obuma Hussein said there are 57 states and that unemployment rate will be down to 8% very soon with his magic crystal ball or secret meetings with Allah. I forget to mention though most of his economic team has already abandon ship, but wait..there’s more…(just like infomerial). Ben Bernancke (Helicopter Ben ie the wanton government enabler) will save our housing with ultra low interest rates. Since government mandated in the 90’s and 2000’s to forced lending to peeps who could not afford a house into half million dollars homes with bad credit scores and no proof of income. Another bright idea by brillant politicians running our country.
        Good 3.5 minute video about the stooges running our country into the ground. Don’t miss. Just my 2 cents

        • Yes, Im most ready for my magic carpet ride now.

        • is much higher than Provident Metals – they want $33.13 for 1 one-ounce silver Eagle and Provident wants $32.12 – one dollar per coin is a big difference.

      5. this is not surprising. showS you not to trust anyone from politics to anyone havin anything to do with the economy. if only the rest of the Sheeple would wake up and take notice but that Is wishful thinking. keep prepping and good luck to all.

      6. The constant radio ads for the National Association of Realtors are really grating on my nerves…

      7. Why am I not surprised, well I guess if Realtors rely on Banks for their customers then they have been in the pockets for a long time.

        Instead of calling them Realtors call them Liartors..

      8. They are all lying. We are now supposed to believe that the economy is improving. If you listen to the talking heads, they all say that the data has turned positive. They say it’s slight but indeed positive. The president has come out and said that the unemployment rate will drop again. I am sure it will as we we b in an elction year. They are a bunch of vile, manipulating vermin that should be treated as such.

      9. this kind of news would have sent the markets down in the past…..but it doesnt have any effect on it…..why? want your opinions.

        • You wrote “this kind of news would have sent the markets down in the past…..but it doesnt have any effect on it…why?”

          Because they SAID SO!!! Seriously, if the NAR thinks this news won’t push home-buyers to advocate for a lower price or influence their perception of if now is a good time to buy, they are fooling themselves. They may also believe the housing market can’t get any lower -HA!

          OTOH, it may be that the old propaganda saying, “If you tell a lie often enough and loudly enough, people believe it” will come into play.

      10. The reason there is no effect is that, it isn’t being reported. There is an effect all right but its just not what they want, so it won’t be reported or the numbers cooked to change the outcome to something they like.
        “bread and circuses” keep them watching “dancing with ex-stars, idol, sports, main stream media, etc…” so they won’t realize that its all crashing down. Same thing in Germany during the 1920’s and 30’s until they woke up and old uncle adolf was calling the shots.
        This has all happened before and will happen again unless WE THE PEOPLE take a stand and stop it.
        History may not repeat itself, but it sure rhymes – Mark twain

      11. It wasnt a “Mistake”
        they knew exactly what they were doing

        Is Holder running this show too?

      12. Gotta love those realtors. Ask anyone of them, at any time of the year, how business is and they always say: Fantastic!!!

        • That’s because it always is for them.. Just like a stock broker – they get paid on a buy or sell.. Doesn’t matter what the price is.. Best thing to do is NOT buy for a few years. i.e. NO ONE buy ANYTHING Or sell anything :-).. See how they like that.. Of if you DO sell, sell it yourself. No NEED for these crooks.

          • Why the thumbs down? StoneAge caveman is right, they just add 6% to your transaction costs, for what, being a glorified taxi driver. Shit if you are looking to buy, you end up doing most of the work yourself and they just get in the fucking way protecting their commission. If you are a retard that can’t search the MLS and drive a fucking car to the homesite and ask common sense questions, then fine use a realtorwhore, but for the rest of use, get out of the way.

            • Double Thumbs Up!

      13. Look, if housing prices go down, they make less money. Did we really think we could trust them? I didn’t. They play the same game as the US Government does with employment statistics and inflation.

        They have done this so they could keep people paying, what amounts to, above free market prices.

        The REAL price of housing will be another 50% BELOW what it is now. We were 280% above the median price per income, inflation adjusted, in 2007. Essentially housing has to drop to 1/3 the price it was compared to income. Trouble is now, government is completely lying about inflation for the last 10 years, so, its anyones guess.

        Deflation is a good thing, trust me. It helps the people. Inflation helps those forces against which we fight. To the people who paid way too much, it is unfortunate, but you will take a haircut.

      14. I would like to hear more from Selco about Bosnia. The only thing that matters at this point is being ready and having the proper tools that one will need for at least two years. If there isn’t at least a two year supply of necessities then you will be going house-to-house and taking a chance on being shot. Everyday is confirmation of this fact. It is barely Wednesday and look at what has already happened this week–it is MFing Global amazing. I am just not sure that two years is enough

      15. Oh.. These arent the droids we’re looking for. Move along
        Very well, lets go get a real estate license!

      16. I’m sorry, I just have to laugh at this one. LOLOLOLOLOLOL!

        The corruption and lies run so deep in this world right now, that even a mundane organization such as the National Association of Realtors is seriously infected by it. No surprise though. All these organizations and people are in self-preservation mode, clinging onto their last shred of a dying paradigm. In some ways, I pity them for not being able to recognize the coming shift in reality, instead of padding realty numbers.

      17. Im more worried about the outcome of future interest rates…

      18. In my old age I have concluded that life is a joke but I ain’t laughing.

        • same here, and the joke is on me, and about 99% of everyone else.

      19. Everyone should know by now that nothing is as reported… official housing numbers aren’t correct, official unemployment numbers aren’t correct, official inflation numbers aren’t correct, consumer spending numbers aren’t correct… the list goes on and on. It’s all propaganda.

        It’s best to just take a look at what’s going on around you and in the world, digest it using common sense and act accordingly. Nothing is as it seems if you look at “official” numbers and listen to talking heads.

        • I couldn’t agree more with you – any “official” number should be viewed with extreme caution. Many moons ago, I would hear the “official” population growth was at zero, yet I watched beautiful forest clear-cut and towns/cities sprawled out. If there was no population growth, who the heck was living in all this new real estate? Finally, the official numbers got in line with reality, then housing market started to tank.

          Well, now that the housing market has taken to the downward spiral because folks can’t find work with a livable wage, a large portion of the new homes are sitting empty. Lots of folks are renting again and some are living multiple families in one home.

          • Fed Up, you’re 100% right – all the numbers are being manipulated. Take the inflation number (CPI) – they decided to not include in that number the cost of food and energy.

            Question, what does everyone consume/purchase every single day — a TV, a car, furniture, a house, clothes, etc.? Of course not!

            However, everyone consumes/spends money to eat and use energy (gasoline, electricity, natural gas, etc.) every single day. I mean, I don’t know about the rest of the bunch but I have never gone a day without eating at least two meals.

        • Right on!!!!!! Look around, follow more than one news source, not the MSM either, digest all the info and make your own assesment. Just like you said PROPAGANDA! You will not be able to make a sound assesment from the MSM and the Kardashians! Look around at all the
          “FOR RENT” or “SPACE FOR LEASE” and it is not slowing down! Be Prepaired, It’s coming down. Four words America does not want to hear “THE PARTY IS OVER”! Four more most do not want to hear, “GIVE ME THE CARD”!

          • The “for Lease” company is getting really big.. Seems they have stores everywhere 🙂

            • I saw a really boring movie at the drive-in…”Closed for the Season”.

        • Nothing but Head Lies and Propaganda. There is good news, some family members and friends have called to apoligize for calling me a paraniod nut job.

          I laughed at them and offered them a Tin Foil Hat.

          Here’s a new propaganda lie. Have you all seen the photos of our drone that Iran got hold of? How many of you think that drone looks like it was in a wreak or shot down?

          They stick the photo out there and no one questions the wreak or shoot down story. I could throw a lot of why questions at you, but think about it!!! The story doesn’t match the photo.

          • i bet it was given to iran…special delivery!

      20. I walk 2 miles down my road for years. and in the past 5 years I have seen 50% of houses go up for sale. And a few never sold. A few more were sold more than once to people who moved with thier jobs.

        not flips, not fix up and turn over homes but families in good homes.

        the houses that are still for sale are over priced. yet, the town admitted housing prices fell in my area.

      21. HIJACK! A good interview with Barnhardt over to

      22. More mortages last week. Bye bye crisis.

      23. Hmmmm…I wondered why my neighborhood had become a ghost town. It seems every third house is empty. I know waterfront homes that have been empty and un-cooled [heated]for years and that’s bad in this moist southern air.

        I have tried to find who owns one that i might be interested in purchasing but no one has been able to tell me who, or what bank owns it.

        How many of these zombie houses are out there quickly degrading into an unlivable mess?

        • Try searching online your county public records or go to county recording office.

      24. Oh yea BTW my wife works for a major RE company and not only have they been lying to us they have been lying to themselves even longer.
        Oh well I have lived to see the rise and fall of the yuppie real estate agent class, I guess that’s something.

      25. I’m very cynical about home ownership for the most part now. We lost our house after a year of unemployment. The interesting thing is, we could have stayed if not for the additional legislated expenses.

        During that year:

        My property taxes increased after a reassessment after repairs made from a flood
        My homeowner’s insurance tripled because of a claim brought on when the city’s “maintenance” backed up the sewage system into my home (causing above-mentioned flood that required extensive renovations)

        So, the mortgage, at only $590 a month was fine. When I lost my job the additional mandated expenses were around $220 a month. A stretch but doable with my savings.

        At the end of the year from hell, the additional expenses were over $630 a month on top of the mortgage.

        I spoke with lawyers. I spoke with government representatives. Finally I decided they could keep the house and screw somebody else with it.

        Now I rent – it’s way more “off-the-grid” and cheaper in the long run. Even if you pay cash for your home, you can get charged tons of money for the privelege of living in it. Wrong, wrong, wrong.

        • You had me listening with your I, I, my, my, and I until you switched it to “you” because your options ran out. Typical! And now you are trying to twist it to say that even if you had cash, owning a home is not worth it. God save the Queen!

          • Daisy says:

            December 12, 2011 at 8:24 pm

            I posted this question a while back but have yet to make a move.

            We inherited a very large amount of sterling silver jewelry. It’s mostly Italian chains. When I say a lot, it probably isn’t a lot compared to the money you all are talking about, but it’s around 300 pounds of silver.

            What should I do with all of that silver? Should I save it as is for a rainy day? Should I cash it out and buy preps? I have absolutely no idea where to go with this.

            Rate This Comment: 1 3

            • My humble opinion? Cash it out. If you want silver, buy junk silver coins since it will be easier to settle on value if you need to use it for barter. Use the rest for preps. Bullets, beans, and band-aids. Silver will have value even after the SHTF, but exactly how much is it worth in comparison to basic survival needs when you can’t pick things up at the store anymore?

        • Daisy,

          The same thing happened to my parents home back in 2000. The city maintenance backed up sewage into it and it was totally ruined. And to add insult to injury after it was repaired their property taxes went up dramatically. There must be some textbook that local governments have on how to screw people.

          I am worried that I may not have water at my home for much longer. I live in farm country and the farmers irrigate constantly almost year round. The large aquifer is being drained and we are in an extreme drought. I wouldn’t be so angry about it except that they are irrigating cotton to be sold to China and corn to be sold for ethanol. I know how much these people are making because, hey, I’m their accountant! Many homeowners have had their wells run dry. Mine has been lowered as much as it can.

          With property taxes going up every year, and my home value going down, I’m about to let the mortgage company and the tax collectors fight over this place and have it. I’m seriously thinking of finding a little place to rent. You just may have the right idea. : )

          • Anonymous lady:

            Maybe I will feel differently with more time behind me, but renting after owning for so long has been such a stress relief for me. It’s nice to not be responsible for the expenses if a storm blows the roof off the house. Just search carefully and make sure the landlord is someone that you will be comfortable dealing with longterm.

            • Daisy, I agree. While raising our two boys, my wife and I lived in a house we owned (but did we really own it? After all, we were paying interest, principal, taxes, and all kinds of insurance on the house — but I digress.). After they left the nest, we sold our house and have been renting now for 12 years and both of us love it. Every time something breaks, we call the landlord and it becomes his headache. Insurance, what insurance? We only have our furniture which we don’t insure. No one is going to steal it and the chances that a fire will destroy or damage it is very unlikely (I’m playing the odds here).

              I have no more headaches from the annual property tax assessments, the insurance scammers, HOA dues, yard work, ants, termites, frozen pipes, leaking roof, and other non-ending repairs and maintenance obligations, etc. Hell, I haven’t taken aspirin since we got rid of our last house.

        • Why don’t you sell some of your silver chains and buy your previous house back Daisy?

          • I’ve thought about it, but really, whatever I get from it will go to get a few more expensive preps. The rest will be for my children’s future, which is as it should be, since the items were from their father’s estate. Like I said, I’m not anxious to share a home with the government and insurance companies again.

        • Blame it on everybody else. “I have absolutely no idea where to go with this”.

        • It’s starting to rain Daisy. Come out of the rain.

      26. Looks like they are bucking the obama trend. “Mislead the American public with false data”.

      27. 3 types of lies : Lies, Damned Lies, & Statistics – Mark Twain
        We all know what is coming. There is no way to change it.
        This might be the last real Christmas that we celebrate for many years. I suggest that we try our best to enjoy it. Be kind to your fellow man. Pay it forward. Before long….we will be looking back on this time as “The Good Old Days”. Yea….that is a scary thought. My Christmas shopping has been more prepping than anything else. Got the Mrs a 2004 Ford Excursion Diesel 4×4. For me ….it is just preps. Everyday that the train stays on the tracks….is another day that I can make some more progress before the SHTF.
        Montgomery County Texas

        • I read all your comments and Mac’s site every day..I told dh Friday night after the Church Christmas party–this may be our last Christmas…and I mean it.
          At least I had a bodacious, great, entertaining time.
          God smite the evil bastards destroying my nation for profit and control. Amen.

          • @JJ: I keep remembering the passage in the bible, it states THE WEALTH OF THE WICKED! You see all of this belongs to him, as such, being good stewards of this earth and the resourses are our primary functions, DONT BELIEVE for one minute HE is not going to make it right! I left you a little message/ALSO Gunsmith, on a latter page, THANKS!

      28. Any buyer needs a seller and when $10-$12 / hour becomes the norm the home price adjusts accordingly. Figuring husband and wife working with a combined income of $45,000 the home they can afford would be in the $120,000 range.

        Back when the wages were up and before industry fled the two income couples making $150,000 / yr should have saved not spent and worse yet went into debt.

        This mess was the result of both government and individuals not being responsible.

        • If the median range of income is $45,000 then the max house this couple could afford is WHATEVER THEY HAVE IN THE BANK IN CASH – not what some banker or accountant says is the right amount to spend. No one can afford a mortgage and anyone that says they can is fooling themselves and deserves to spend 3 – 4 times the value of the house in interest insurance and other incidental costs..

          Hasn’t the last few years/decades taught anyone anything??? Buy a piece of property – preferably in a low tax zone (rural) and large enough to grow your food. Pay cash. Put a temporary shelter on it and build a house – with cash. Live in it. Don’t treat it as an investment or ATM because it isn’t. The only reason houses go up in value is 1) there are improvements and 2) the value of money is less.

          C’mon people – are you forgetting how to count????

      29. Some? jees ,what they were doing is approving loans ,taking the money them denying up to 3 times per household saying they needed more down payment … so more than likley home sales are 1/3 of the true numbers and lazy bankers are waiting for another Obama welfare check…

      30. Hhahaha Has anyone been to Florida ! Or parts of the midwest or Cal-I-forn_I-A Block after block of empty homes Whole shopping centers vacant Who are they fooling!!!Buy a house in Elkhart Indiana for only $7000.00 cash if anyone had any!

      31. Business is never bad in sales no matter the industry. If someone asked me how business was it was always great… because any other answer is like throwing blood into shark infested waters. I never believe anything that is reported about the economy being strong until I do my research 1st. Glad I got out of sales years ago… my friends who are still in it are hurting real bad.

        • We’re going to need a bigger boat.

      32. Wow….market down. Gold down to $1614. Silver down to low $29.00 . Hope this keeps up until I get my year end paycheck & commission settlement ! I will be buying
        all I can .
        Montgomery County Texas

        • Random,

          yep its dropping fast, guess it will end up somewhere around $1575 by closing.


          • It might be the last chance to buy some “punch” at the punch bowl before it becomes almost impossible when the DOW tanks and the spread fee go up over spot.

            • Got to be some major hurting margin calls today in paper pm’s.

        • Silver is quickly breaking through all supports that were forecast. Where will the bottom be? I agree with DPS, on the price of gold, somewhere around 1575 but I have my eye on silver price. I know where I will be going tomorrow. Have a good day everyone!

          • NSBF,

            I don’t own any pm but But I do like to see how close I can get to the market, Just alittle fun.
            DPS<——-Poor Man.

            LOL Merry Christmas buddy


            • Nobody owns it. He just lets you use it if you have control of it.

            • DPS, I here ya! 6 years ago we went from 2 decent salaries to one which continues to shrink and the roughly $40 a week that I make…but we are managing. The only reason I can possibly make a purchase is because we recently sold an extra vehicle for a little eehem, Christmas cash. So, the stockings could be a little heavier than normal and not from black stuff but a few pieces of a shiny pm. I believe a true measure of one’s wealth is not what is in the bank account or safe, but of what is in one’s heart. You, my friend seem to have a very good heart. That makes you a wealthy man in my book. God will look out for you. Merry Christmas to you as well! ~D

            • NSBF

              Thanks bud, but I’m just regular trailer trash. But you know I have alot more then some folks I guess. I know there sure is alot to be said for being debt free. I just refuse to play this bank game so they can kept their loans, and credit cards and I’ll keep my own $$$$$
              Its sure is nice to get into the safe and look at those clear titles.

              God Bless you to Brother


            • Nobody in here owns any. Don’t you know that we’re all innocent!

          • NSBF,

            I still think gold will close around 1575, and siver around 28.80 lets see how close I get. And you know talking about selling that car gave me a thought, Now might be a dandy time to unload some of the watches I won in sales contest yrs ago. I’ll have to check that out. Hmm or even a trade for a couple new guns might be sweet.


            • DPS,

              It sure looks like you are going to be right! 🙂 I have one more auto investment that I am looking at cashing in on….trying to convince myself to let go. 1966 Mustang. Seriously needs to be restored. I get offers every year…this might be the time. Good luck to you!

            • You are GOOD DPS! 1577 right now!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

            • Damn missed 1567.10 loss 7.90 on gold and 28.69 loss .11 on silver. Bummer


            • NSBF,

              I hear that I have had some good offers on my Harley and My old 300zx, just can’t part with them. I gotta have something fun..LOL


            • Name Price Change % Chg
              Gold 1,574.90 -85.00 -5.12% Gold

              Silver 28.85 -2.34 -7.52%

              Damn I almost hit it..

              LOL DPS

        • Don’t count on it.

      33. My lady friend was an agent, so I’ve been aware of the perfidy of the NAR for years. This is no surprise. 98% of Realtors rank below used car salesmen and politicians for honesty. A disgusting lot, and I’m glad she’s out of it.

      34. Letting a bunch of sales people report on their own industry numbers without outside auditing is crazy.

        Actually, it’s not crazy. It’s crazy that the media and public digest these numbers. NAR is a “rah-rah” group that is consistently “over-the-top positive” about the real estate market.

      35. This should be no surprise. Anyone who has a pulse on this economy knows what’s really going on.
        All Associations and such has an agenda.

        Look at NAR’s numbers over the years, I don’t mean what they report, I’m talking about their members…

        NAR lost over 300,000 members from ‘07 to date. How is that good?

        Bottom line: Like all other agenda’s… If the lies fool the public, more optimism arises and like magic, the economy gets better and they make more money. What a Joke.

        Everything you hear are lies.

        Steve Sjuggerud of the Daily Wealth Report says the Housing Bust is over.

        I don’t know about you, but there are many factors that tell me when the housing bust is over…
        1. Gold has peaked
        2. The real unemployment numbers are at six percent
        3. Interest rates are above six percent
        Just to name a few.


        Do what you know and pay no attention to any reporting’s.

        Prep and get ready… the hard times are behind us…
        The Worst is Yet to Come.

      36. When I hear people and reports say their area has not been hit that hard I think – they will. My area was hit very very hard (Modesto Central Valley California) with some values down as much as 80% off their highs. Yes I bought a property at 19.27% of its original new selling price. It could go lower but at this point I have a fine return on investment from rent so I don’t care.

        The areas to be hard hit are those which were not. When foreclosures and others hit the market here investors are ready to pay cash and buy them – the ROI is too good on rents – far better than stock dividends, CD’s and bonds.

        • Jim,

          The TX Panhandle has not been hit hard yet for example Amarillo is build around 10 to 20 new homes every week.
          Construction business is still booming. Not sure for how long, but it is still booming this could also be in part that we have D.O.D and Bell helicopter both are supplying our troops. So it may not fall until the goverment checks stop coming. I guess time will tell.


        • Also I would like to know where everyones gas prices are?
          We hit a new low for this area at $3.02 per gal. Diesel $3.78 per gal.
          Just kinda like to know what its doing all over the country


          • i would opine that with the current european mess u s hedge funds, goldman sachs and j p morgan &c are speculating on margin massively in u s dollar related futures rather than oil futures.

            with european money seeking a safe haven in the u s wall street gamblers can make more money now speculating in euro down dollar up margin gambling than in oil derivatives.

            it is indeed tragic when 75% of wall street profits are generated in paper shuffling rather that actually producing things that benefit you and i.

            99/2012, OCCUPY WALL STREET……….

          • DPS, PNW is around 3.23 to 3.33…we always seem to be higher than other area’s of country. 🙁

          • Gas in the Piedmont NC area is 3.35 per gal. Just across the stateline its about 2.95 per. NC taxes are outrageous.

            • highspeedloaver…. from central nc too here… 3.18 for unleaded… glad to have a ‘neighbor’

            • Out toward the coast it’s hovering around 3.28 or so. NC taxes are crazy, and when I go visit relatives in WV I always fuel up over the state line in VA. Ridiculous.

          • Unleaded 3.419 to 3.499 in Cali

            • Jim,

              So far your in the front of the highest gas prices, they are calling for another drop tonight here in the panhandle. I think it will be around $2.97 by tomorrow but we shall see. When it hits $2.90 I’ll be filling up everything I have.
              Thanks everybody for the gas prices. And btw DK milk is still $3.99 a gal here.. LMFAO


            • I’l like to see 3.18. Too close to charlotte I guess, in Gaston co.

            • Phoenix – $3.03 am pm (arco/bp) to $3.39 (Chevron and Exxon Mobil).

          • Eastern Maryland, paid 3.15 this A.M.

          • DPS,
            western Colo. here, price for medium grade $3.40 range. diesel about $3.60. Getting a company truck is same as getting a raise.

            • Gotta love those company trucks Or is the gas card that comes with it..


          • You just want to know where I live don’t you?

          • Page AZ, price at pump; Unleaded $3.45-$3.65. Diesel $3.88-$4.18.

            I just got a delivery today of fuel. Cost; Unleaded $3.17, Diesel $4.02

            • VA. Beach VA. $3.03

          • You guys are must be busting my stones with those prices. Upstate NY $3.69


        it isn’t what it is.

        it’s what it can be made to appear what it is.


      38. In the past 2 months there are 10 more houses for sale within a 2 block radius of my house……

        I am in a suburb of Detroit and its not getting better…….

      39. It did seem strange that the numbers were not as bad as many feared. I have a realtor friend who was very successful before and said it’s worse than they are saying.

        You wonder what else is “understated”.

        • The Dark Lord’s understanding of the US Constitution, for one.

      40. So many houses, no one with income to buy them except for the elite. I had a great uncle that made his fortune buying cheap houses in the 30’s so I’m guessing this is a well thought out plan to make rich richer just like the system is set up to work. Obama is a communist and we are all screwed when this all comes crashing down.AR15’s for
        Christmas with lots of ammo if you can afford it buy one for all your family members before it’s too late.

      41. Wheat & beans are up on market. Houses, no.

      42. Lies, lies, and more lies. Why not lie, no one really challenges them. America, so complacent and nonagressive unless they do something truly horrific and unacceptable, like; Close down McDonalds, or ban twinkies, or even worse…. cancel the Kardashians! Oh the humanity of it all. What is this country coming to.

        Preppers unite and get out of the closet where we keep all the goodies.


        banks want foreclosed homes on their books so they can demonstrate them as “assets”. ….

        under the current u.s. fractional reserve banking system they can then invest with digital money ten times the value of these “assets” in various ways…..many of which are high risk high margin gambling.

        oh yes, …..and with credit default swap insurance policies on homes the bank who has the mortgage can collect money from this “insurance” when the owner defaults on the mortgage. sometimes there are multiple swap policies on one foreclosed home. when AIG went into bankruptcy paying out on all these swaps insurance policies to the big bank mortgage holders you had to bail them out…

        nice deals, huh…


      44. The USDX is going up! We are saved! sarc off

      45. Something strange, Yahoo just showed gold jump to $1744 10 mins ago it was $1601?

        • Kitco says its at $1575 and high today only $1632. Obama must be manipulating yahoo too.

          • F&*k him. Turn those machines back on….. buy, buy.

            • Sell- Sell- Sell thats funny stuff anoymous

            • I think DPS and Mac was the only ones that got it! How sad.

      46. must have been a glitch

      47. I don’t worry about RE. When am I first Mac?

        • You will be first when “the last shall be first” and “he who is greatest among you shall be servant of all”.

          Keep prepping.

      48. I’m still Hoping on one of those presidential $1 Bo coins from the U.S. Mint. Anybody know when those come out?

      49. Mac, I thought this should be shared.

        From the parks, OWS – now move into unoccupied houses. If they are not already receiving food stamps and unemployment benefits, they apply for them and end up trashing the place. There goes another house. We need to start and make reforms as we are tired of paying for free stuff.

        The folks who are getting the free stuff don’t like the folks who are paying for the free stuff, because the folks who are paying for the free stuff can no longer afford to pay for both the free stuff and their own stuff.

        The folks who are paying for the free stuff want the free stuff to stop, and the folks who are getting the free stuff want even more free stuff on top of the free stuff they are already getting!

        Now… The people who are forcing the people who pay for the free stuff have told the people who are RECEIVING the free stuff, that the people who are PAYING for the free stuff, are being mean, prejudiced, and racist.

        So… The people who are GETTING the free stuff have been convinced they need to hate the people who are paying for the free stuff by the people who are forcing some people to pay for their free stuff, and giving them the free stuff in the first place.

        We have let the free stuff giving go on for so long that there are now more people getting free stuff than paying for the free stuff.

        Now understand this. All great democracies have committed financial suicide somewhere between 200 and 250 years after being founded. The reason? The voters figured out they could vote themselves money from the treasury by electing people who promised to give them money from the treasury in exchange for electing them.

        The United States officially became a Republic in 1776, 235 years ago. The number of people now getting free stuff outnumbers the people paying for the free stuff. We have one chance to change that. In 2012. Failure to change that spells the end of the United States as we know it.

        A Nation of Sheep Breeds a Government of Wolves!

        I’M 100% for PASSING THIS ON!!!

        Lets take a stand!!!
        Obama: Gone!
        Borders: Closed!
        Language: English only
        Culture: Constitution, and the Bill of Rights!
        Drug Free: Mandatory Drug Screening before Welfare!
        NO freebies to: Non-Citizens!

        We the people are coming!

        Y’all Beware!

        • “When the monkeys learn they can vote themselves bananas, they’ll never climb another tree”…unknown

          • Yep JJ

            Give a man a fish and he will eat for the day, teah him to fish and he will sit in a boat all day drinking beer.


            • What kind of boat & beer?

        • I’m confused now, are we for the people with free stuff or the people who don’t have free stuff?? And if they have free stuff wheres my free stuff? So is the free stuff bad free stuff or good free stuff? and I santa bringing all the gang here at Shtfplan free stuff or are we getting bad free stuff? And btw i had to pay for my free stuff or was it free stuff, Hell now i do’n know what free stuff is good free stuff or bad free stuff?


          BTW I just kidding with you, I might have cabin fever free stuff

        • Y’all Beware, I bet the person who gave you the “thumbs down” is one of the leeches that’s sucking the blood out of our nation.

      50. O/T

        put http:// in front of it

      51. Think what this means for the “value” of your home tax assessors claim in states requiring assessments be “market value.” It’s CONFABULATED and nothing else because no real “market” now exists!

      52. What a bunch of … wait for it … Real Tards!

        There’s sure to be a good write up about it on Burbed dot com, a site wherein we make fun of houses for sale! Excellent site BTW. Right now they’re picking apart some monstrosity in El Cerrito.

      53. You little bitches are stupid.

        • I just gave you an up because you are a stupid bitchz.

      54. I remember reading an article recently that said soon, the topic at neighborhood cocktail parties will not be about your new shoes, your boat or your upcoming vacation.

        The new topic of conversation will be how to STRATEGICALLY DEFAULT.

      55. Mac, my e-mail has been hacked & locked down. Will contact you through your site when I get a new account.

        • Best of luck with it… shoot me an email when you get it squared away.

        • hmmm

      56. It doesn’t matter what they do. Lying is going to fix our problems. Everythings going down. If you don’t fix the jobs problem you can kiss everything good-bye. We need a new way of thinking and a vision for America or we’ve had it.

        Read “Common Sense 3.1” at ( )

      57. The wealth of the US has already dropped. Now we’re just feeling it’s effects. If one does the math before it’s over the US standard of living will decline by 50% before income meets reality.

        The developed world has been and will continue to share it’s wealth with the developing world. You don’t have a choice.

      58. blame the boomers….the source of all planetary scourges. Love seeing these folks start to die out. I plan on pissing on their graves.

        • I am one of those boomers. And to be honest, I don’t blame you. I am DISGUSTED with the bulk of my lazy, arrogant, self-absorbed, pampered, immature mindless herd of boomer siblings, friends and relatives. I can barely stand to look at some of them in the face, knowing they took the greatest country to have ever existed and completely destroyed it.

          If you are young, I apologize to you. I have been working like mad to make up for the ignorance of my self-absorbed, filthy, vile, lazy me generation, but the outcome hangs in the balance right now. Of course, all the “Yes we can/Yes we have no bananas” lemmings who voted for Obumbler are also due some of the blame as well.

        • I’m one of those boomers. Stop painting with such a broad brush. I got my first job at 14 and I am still working at 65. I worked in high school on weekends and in college. I don’t know what YOU do to justify your life, but I am not ashamed of my work ethic. I plan to quit work next year, but I will probably volunteer at something in the community. My wife is a boomer, grew up on a farm and worked her way through school. She worked 32 years before retiring. I have 43 years in my current jog. Are you one of the 30 somethings that constanttly look for a new entitlement?

      59. Here it is boys! Load your guns.

        Congress just passed the National Defense Authorization Act in a 283-to-136 vote. 190 Republicans and 93 Democrats voted for; 43 Republicans and 93 Democrats voted “against.” Prepare to be arrested, without charge, if someone believes believe you engage in “terroristy” stuff. Good luck proving them wrong.

        From Reuters:

        The U.S. House of Representatives approved a defense bill on Wednesday requiring the military to handle suspected militants linked to al Qaeda, acting not long after President Barack Obama removed a veto threat from the controversial legislation.

        The bill is expected to pass the Senate this week and then go to Obama’s desk for his signature into law.

        Shortly before the House vote, the White House announced the president’s advisers would not recommend a veto, although they said they still had concerns about the measure.

        The measure also imposes new sanctions against Iran’s central bank and pre-emptively freezes some aid to Pakistan.

        • This law seems frighteningly reminiscent of Pakistan’s blasphemy law, or the practice of denunciations in the USSR.

          It also flies in the face of law going back to the Magna Carta, but what the heck… these folks have no idea they are taking us all back to the Dark Ages.

          The ironic thing is this stuff is pushed by a lot of those lefties like Hillary that were so dead set against “tin soldiers and Nixon coming… yatayatayata….”

          And now we have the SOPA BS bill.

      60. Big shock: Obama rescinded his threat of a veto on the defense bill that allows indefinite detention of expected terrorists. It just passed the House.

        • Had to see that coming. I called my congressman’s office today to ask what his position was on this bill. The people there had no idea what I was talking about. I was put on hold for 7 minutes then told to call the D.C. office. When I called that office I talked to two people there, was told to look on his website, and then was asked for my name, number, and address so they could send me a letter. I declined.

          • No idea? Hmmm…. well, as long as he knows how his positions on his insider trading deals are going, I guess it’s OK….

        • welcome to the UCSA

      61. Published: 15 December, 2011, 02:28

        Less than a month after he threatened to veto terrifying legislation that would cease constitutional rights as we know it, Obama has revoked his warning and plans to authorize a bill allowing indefinite detention and torture of Americans.

      62. Greetings Everyone!
        PM’s going down…
        surprise surprise!!!
        When you need food and fiat cash to buy gas and pay the bills the PM’s are the first to go.In these endgames being played out “What is truth” takes on a whole new meaning.SSI just gave a “raise” to mollify the slackers(it’s what is actually killing SSI,but another time for that)and the old folks as they can now buy a better peanut butter and a second loaf of bread.Of course drug prices will go up accordingly.
        I bought my place looking at the future when prices will decline to about 50-60% of what they are now.Don’t care,as “list prices” decline so will my R.E. taxes.
        When the REAL “funny money” hits(A.K.A. 1920’2 Germany style)I will be able to payoff the place with the last barrel full of worthless dollars.Fitting too,as it will go to BoA.
        Daisy:feel for you losing your place(been there,done that).Might be a good time to convert some of the inherited PM’s into silver dimes and the paper stuff.If you can find a place Dirt CHEAP that fits your needs,even better.I suspect the current food prices are a preview of the main attraction.It’s almost funny watching the evil and wicked machinations of governments world-wide.But do not fear,lift your heads up for The Change is arriving on time and on target.
        Best to All
        hope you can stay warm and have a meal.
        To all the Fed Spooks watching this site,when they cash you out in the not too distance future(quite soon actually),whatcha gonna do for a job then people?

        • GFG..that is one of the most troubling things to rationalize for these govt hounds, these chemtrail sprayers, these FBI credents harrassing AMISH milk producers actually think they are to be spared when they shoot that bio-germ in that park or town or arena?

          Hey, idiot FBI, CIA, SS, National Defense..what a are being used; IT’A A BIG CLUB, AND YOU AIN’T IN IT!!

      63. so glad I have so few assets to loose. Not going to be a pretty sight watching this play out. almost off the grid and moving farther from it everyday.

      64. i’m really sorry but i didn’t read the posts…i live in a high real estate turnover point..realtors list things all the time in multiple listing points be it web or magazine or newsprint…these guys have been doing this type of stuff for decades,,,,,DUUUUHHHHHH. highest bid wins…. It is not their fault the fed cant add this listing to this OTHER listing,,even though they have the same address,,,wow that might be hard for a computer to figger out…I WAS akid when I first figured this out…thats why youlist a car for sale in 2 newspapers… MAC DIDN’T EVEN SPIT ON IT WHEN HE PUT THIS ONE IN YOUR ASS

      65. The NAR computations are no more reliable than the fox guarding the hen house.

      66. The real estates are the main cause for prices being so high on houses. I’ve been trying to buy a house in WHitestone, NY and thanks to the criminal real estates in the area, they are grossly overpriced by 100,000 to 200,000 dollars. CRIMINALS. They should be charged.

      67. i have read several references on yahoo and also suffered the internet for loans and have

        come to realize that it all accumulated to nothing as i was been scammed or been turned

        down, but after all that i went through i tried one more reference on yahoo by Mr Raymond

        Brooks about DATE LOAN LENDERS and they turned out to give me the loan i had wanted

        all along. The moral of my reference here is not only for you to contact them, but to also

        know that there is a God up in heaven that atches us even in the deepest of our problems, so

        the bottom line is contact the above named company and your story will turn too. the email

        is [email protected] and their website

        Elisaveta Yelizaveta

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