Preparing for a Social Collapse is Silly – People Are Too Civilized and Reasonable…

by | Dec 9, 2013 | Headline News | 343 comments


SHTFplan Editor’s Note: Not many can fathom the possibility of a societal collapse. Our thin veneer of modern civilization has led most of us to believe that widespread calamity – the kind that leaves millions dead in its wake – is simply not possible. We have democratic governments, advanced technology, and people are so well informed about past horrors that we’d never repeat the same mistakes. In the analysis below originally published at Ed That Matters, author Mic Roland explores this notion, and provides historical evidence that suggests no matter how civilized and peaceful we think we may be, all it takes is one key event to strike fear into the populace and the whole thing can come crumbling down. Mic draws a comparison between life today and how it is analogous to the state of the world in early 1914. Things were seemingly normal back in 1914 and no one could have imagined what would play out following the turning point which occurred on June 28 of that year. It happened fast… so fast that society broke down in a matter of days and weeks, and by the end of the year nearly one million people were dead.

But today is different right? Such a thing can’t happen again…

(Pictured: Within days of Archduke Ferdinand’s assassination hundreds of thousands were mobilized across Europe)

Society Is Too Civilized to Collapse? A Lesson from WWI
By Mic Roland

Preparing for a social collapse is silly. Society won’t collapse. People are too civilized and reasonable.”

This objection, or something like it, occasionally comes from friends or family who regard prepping as a fool’s errand. Some extra food or flashlight batteries might be grudgingly accepted as prudent, but security measures? Defense? That’s just crazy talk. We’re a modern, civilized nation, not savages, they say. We value the arts and sciences. Since childhood, we’ve been taught about tolerance, kindness and respect for each others civil rights, etc. If tough times come, they say, people will help each other out and respect each others’ rights. We’ll all band together and help each other get through. We won’t be at each others’ throats…they say.

These cultural optimists might concede that during a disaster, like Katrina, some bad deeds might be done by a few bad people, but those apples were already bad. The vast majority of folks, they maintain, are civilized people, who value kindness and generosity. Civilized folks don’t suddenly become “bad” people.

Unfortunately, they can, and have. An example from history is the start of World War One. In just that one example, civilized men chose violence over civility.

In June of 1914, Europe was chock full of highly civilized people. The capitols were staffed by the upper crusts of their societies. Silk hats, gloves, suit coats with tails. Europe was the peaceful land of Bach, Beethoven, Dr. Livingston, fine wines, Louis Pasteur, Madam Curie. fairytale castles, Mozart and Strauss with his Blue Danube waltz — all very refined and civilized. The early 20th century was a time of amazing progress in science, technology and medicine. Every year seemed to bring some new marvel to benefit mankind — motor cars, aeroplanes, plastics, air conditioning and instant coffee (!). Meliorism (the notion that things just get better and better) was in vogue.

Yet, in just one month, none of that mattered. The first of 9 million began to die in Flanders’ fields. The traditional narrative (history written by victors) holds that the war was caused by bad apples. Those brutish, uncivilized Germans started the war. The truth is, it was all of them, not just the Germans. Despite the vast cultural refinements, leaders in Vienna, Moscow, Berlin, Paris and London too (all men who prided themselves as part of modernist enlightenment and progressiveness) threw all that civilization and refinement out the window in favor of what they knew would be a terrible and bloody war.

How could civilized men do such a thing? The short answer is: fear.

The spark, of course, was the assassination of the Austrian archduke Franz Ferdinand and his wife on June 28th by a ragtag band of Serbian-sponsored terrorists. But that killing did not start the war. It was merely the crisis that got played out of control.

The month-long run-up to war ran in two phases. The first phase involved each nation acting on fears of losing some “vital” national interest — prestige, influence, access to markets, etc. The second phase tapped into a deeper fear — the fear of doom. Like two gunfighters in an old western movie, the second man to draw was dead. In the summer of 1914, no one wanted to be second nation to “draw.”

The machinations of that first phase are a bit much for this blog post. Suffice it to say that all the nations played the game of brinksmanship over their various slices of pie.

The critical trigger to the more deadly second phase came on July 28th, when Russia tried to quietly mobilize their huge army against Austria. Perhaps their move was just ramped-up brinksmanship, but once the guns started coming out, no one could afford continue just talking. The stakes had changed. Progressive modernism and slices of influence pie did not matter anymore.

With Russia mobilizing, Germany was afraid of doom via attack on two fronts. (France and Russia were allies) In hopes of heading off a two-front fate, Germany demanded that France NOT mobilize as proof of their professed non-hostile intentions. The French refused to say. Germany was at a decision fork. If they mobilized immediately, they could be ready before the Russians (and French). If they waited — even a few days — they would let the Russians have the only gun out of its holster. Fear of that doom prompted Germany to opt for the violent course rather than the civilized course (keep negotiating). Once Germany began mobilizing, France was at the same sort of decision fork: keep talking or go for their guns. They opted for guns. The British, worried that Germany might defeat both the French and the Russians, thereby putting all of the channel coast under German control (which the British believed would somehow be doom for them), so the British promised to go to war with the French.

Come the first of August, the guns were loaded and troops on the move. Due to better planning, Germany was the first to get their gun out of the holster. She had only a few days head start, so opted to strike first and attempt to take out France before the Russians were fully ready (The Russians had a very slow holster). From there on out, it was war, and a war that quickly devolved into a bloody stalemate of trenches and mud.

Even after the shooting began, cooler heads might have prevailed. But the populace of the various nations also bought into the contemporary doom-anxiety thinking. They did not want THEIR nation to lose the war and be doomed, any more than their leaders did. WWI was the first major war in which propaganda was a significant tool of the various governments. The Allied nations spun the war as defending justice or stopping “evil” Germany from taking over the world (which the Germans didn’t want anyhow). The American propaganda machine one-upped the Allies to make the war the defense of “democracy” itself and ironically, “the war to end all war.” Civilized Americans joined the violence for fear that democracy and/or freedom would somehow be lost.

Millions of men became willing to kill as many total strangers as it took to stave off the specter of doom for THIER side. Even when the war stagnated, and hundreds of thousands died for no gain, no one was willing to stop fighting, lest their side lose — injustice prevail, democracy be ruined, whatever. So, the killing went on until exhaustion set in.

How do the origins of World War One fit a societal melt-down today?

Today, as back in 1914, most people find it easier to be civil when they’re comfortable. It is harder to be deferential and civil when cold, hungry or afraid. Troubles brew up occasionally, but as long as people feel there is hope of negotiating their way through it, civility often survives. It is when people feel threatened with a sudden loss of something vital (food, safety, etc.), that they are more prone to react with violence. It might be a desperation violence, rather than malice, but a bullet fired in fear hurts just as much as a bullet fired in anger.

The following scenario is a micro-analogy to the start of WWI in a more street-level setting. First there is jockeying for “interests”, which quickly escalates to fear and violence.

Imagine a group of civilized neighbors who, after a collapse scenario, were counting on the contents of a nearby food warehouse to get them through. They don’t own the food, but presume it would remain available for them since it was near them. Times would be tough, but they had a source of food. Civility prevails.

When the actual owner of the food orders it packed in trucks and shipped out to somewhere else, the neighborhood status quo is upset. As the trucks roll down the driveway, the civilized folk have to make a quick decision (rather like the statesmen of Europe did). If they believe their families will starve to death if they let the trucks depart, they might block the driveway to stop the trucks. If a truck driver makes threatening moves to get through the barricade, (he has his orders, after all) the potential threat of hunger is upgraded to an actual threat of personal harm.

Before the crisis, would these civilized neighbors, (lovers of poetry and fine cuisine) have dragged a trucker from his cab and beat him up? No. They would have been horrified at the thought. Yet, when forced into a snap decision, when the choice seems to be between violence or doom, many of them will opt for violence — just like the leaders of Europe did in July of 1914.

Back to my scenario; the angry and fearful mob drag the drivers out of the trucks and rush to open the backs to get “their” food. Who wants to show up late to a looting? No waiting in orderly lines, or asking “Have you any Grey Poupon?” The race is to the swift.

The warehouse manager might be a nice person, polite to his elders, kind to kittens, etc. He sees a mob of looters attacking his drivers. He does not have the luxury of time to wonder if they are vile criminals or just parents of hungry children. Each second of delay injures his men. The risk of inaction is too high. He shoots a warning shot over their heads.

The mob, realizing they are being fired upon from the warehouse, now have another enemy with “obvious” ill intent. The stakes have gone up. Some of the looters charge toward the office with sticks.

Should the manager let the mob into the office to discuss their grievances in a civilized manner? He has only a few seconds to decide. The apparent risk far outweighs the possible benefits. He shoots at the leaders. A few of the mob fall. The enraged looters regroup behind barricades. Some of the mob fetch guns. The manager and his armed staff are now in their office trench, afraid that the mob will kill them if they get in. The looters are in their barricade trench, afraid that their babies to starve if they don’t get in.

The warehouse becomes a model of World War One — two sides squared off, both assuming that the loser of the fight will be doomed. Fear put them there. Fear keeps them fighting. Kubayah finds no traction.  Civilization does not prevail.

Fear trumps civilization.

Mic Roland is a closet prepper in a semi-rural area of the “Free State,” with a soft spot for old movies.

This article first appeared on Ed That Matters.

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    1. Gods Creation

      Preparing for a single event collapse may e silly. We are on a long slippery slope. The collapse will happen one family at a time.

      Each family collapse is one less family to fight the corp criminals.

      • Shooter

        There is no telling what’s going to happen. It could be man made or from nature.

        I will not count on the grocery store always being there for me. People can look down on me if they want to.

        • Wombat

          If you haven’t already, get your ass out of the suburbs and as far away from thoroughfares as you possibly can.

          Doing so will win you a chance to fight for survival into the future.

          Fail to do so and your fate is already sealed.

          • PO'd Patriot

            Those who are too civilized and reasonable will be the first to have their heads displayed on a pike.

          • c

            You would need to get 100 miles inland from any US border. The Obama administration has created a policy for Constitution Free Zones and they wrap the US. Any land or ocean or Great Lakes border is included. Go look at a map of this area. Half of many states are now in that zone. And according to the US census, 2/3 of all Americans live in this zone. Over half of my state is in that zone and all of the major cities are included.

            So if you are looking for someplace safer to move you might include on your list that is still be IN the US, meaning in that part of the US that is still under the Constitution.

            • John Q. Public

              True history not written by the victors:


              Listen and learn.

              On Dec 15, The Plot Against the Church series resumes.

            • gone under

              @ C…That zone negates the right against illegal search and seizure. It allows your property, computer, car etc to be searched without a warrant. Martial Law would make that zone country wide.

            • Spook89

              Yeah, they’re really tough along our southern border, huh?

        • joe america

          Prepping is an investment. Most importantly for security and survival. However, prepping is also an investment that will without doubt mature. The prices of all supplies: ammo, guns, food, medical supplies, ect. will continue to rise. Even if the SHTF scenario never occurs, you and yours will be better off for having prepared ahead.

          • Zoomsday Survival Gear

            Your absolutely right everyone needs to come to the reality that preparing isnt just for fun anymore its a must to ensure that your family and friends have a chance to survive. At this point in our world its not a question of if somethings going to happen its when!! Thats why we started our store so we can help get prepping and survival items to our fellow preppers without raising prices through the roof. Some items we will only make $1.00 on but its worth to us to know that we helped a family survive rather than trying to price gouge and profit in everyones time of need! We do our best to help each and every customer out as if we have known eachother for years. Please feel free to email us at [email protected] if you have any questions. We are not spammers or someone trying to get one over on anyone we are just trying to help everyone we can!

        • Barterman

          I agree. Be prepared to live on your own and take care of yourself and the rest will work itself out over time.

      • 1940--me

        the real story is that when the collapse comes, it will be here for yrs if not decades.

        • Patriot One

          1940 I have a theory that post financial collapse we could actually bounce off the bottom. Now this is specific to financial collapse. The first 4 months will be extremely violent, but after the young, old, sick, crazy and criminal die off in the early days, commerce will resume at a community level. It always starts with barter and trade, then a currency.

          My theory is we will go from 2014 back to the 1800’s in 30 days. We will have a short, but very violent 3 to 5 months and then over the next 36 months race back to 2014. Along the way though we would lose 40 to 60% of the population. It also assumes that the rest of the world is experiencing the same problem and China and Russia don’t try to come after our natural resources.

          Anyway, that’s just my Tin Foil Hat theory on financial collapse. One thing for sure, it’s going to be messy!!

          • Spartacus

            Also assuming non-intervention by goobermnent do-gooders…

          • Calgacus

            So when the president says “If you like your dollars, you can keep your dollars” will you believe him?

            • Thinker

              Calgacus;just read an article about meeting of the convention states in Virginia on the blaze. seems they are trying to amend the constitution to turn the powerr back to the people,sounds good on the surface but what else are they trying to slip in under our noses? I don’t trust non these politicians to do the right thing. Do you??

              • Calgacus

                Glad you brought this up I was reading about it last night. At first it seemed we had a method to give us an advantage but I did some searching and read more on it. Im just confused now. I searched on levin constitutional convention and that gave me current news and some pros and cons on the subject.
                Seems that any way to change the constitution might be the avenue to destroy it too.
                Theres only a few in DC I trust, I count them on one hand. If so many have to get involved its not just a clusterfuck but the way to bring in the means for UN treaty documents w/out going down the 2/3 voter route.

                • TheGuy

                  Equal rights for avocados…


                  Best constitution devisable by a committee. Of morons.

              • Pissed Off Granny


                I admire you. You are a “thinker”. I hope you do not take much stock in Glen Beck. He is an Israeli shill; he is allowed to take a swipe at anything but what is causing the downfall of America. He is the MSM’s answer to keeping Patriots dumbed down.

                He supports Ted Cruz whose wife is or was a Goldman Sachs executive. Tell me Beck does not know that. He tells us all that ML King was a hero when we know he was a commie zero. He stated he had no objections to gay marriages.

                I was sucked into his fold at one time. Bought his books, thought at last we had found a patriot that was out to save America. What a fool I was. He is allowed to continue his charade as long as he doesn’t touch the Zionist issue. In his own way he is more dangerous to America than the commie Piers Morgan.

                He claims to be quite a historian; but somehow has avoided who the powers that be are destroying the world. Do you really buy that he can be that dumb?

                I know you love America just like I do, Thinker. But we are going to have to look beyond Beck and his Israeli firsters to find a leader/hero to believe in.

                • Them Guys

                  THINKER: Go Read This websites info on kommies and khazars that beck will Never tell you about!

                  www dot biblestudysite dot com/bcomm dot htm

                  It Has Photos. Maps. Names-names has info on 1918 russian jewish kommies, hollywood jewish run/kommies, great names and Bios of various jewish kommie Spies from 1940-50’s america spy trials etc….Its a 96 page E-Book Free to read online at that website…Enjoy learning More about “The Adversaries of God and of ALL mankind” as the bible verses describes satans kids.

                  PO’d Granny: That you Admit to being taken in and fooled by Beck at first, yet Now you admit to that, shows that You are NO fool!

                  The Real Fools Are the vast majority who Never can admit to such, so instead of admitting becks a swindler scam for zios, the fools defend beck constantly, and call vile names of all others that out becks swindles.

                  What a Royal Mess we have for todays America eh!

                  On the Left we has Lib dem Kommies always defending all issues african black rgardless what wrongs(and there are many many) done by blacks…Libs always make excsues and defend em.

                  Then as to those on the Right: They act exactly the Same, only more so to defend and make excuses for zionist kommie jews aka Khazar imposters and state of israel.

                  That leaves a small few of Us awakened folks in the middle being harrased by both left and right, simply for us telling Real factual Truths!!…Amazeing no.

              • Smokey

                A constitutional convention sounds good, but the reality is that the floor is open to any and all proposals. You can kiss the entire Bill of Rights goodbye, starting with the 2nd Amendment.

                It’s been a leftist dream for decades to get it rewritten, and the convention concept is their idea.

                Don’t fall for it. The Constitution we have is plenty good, all we need to do is replace the people and the ideology we have controlling the government.

            • NetRanger


              He lost me at “If…”

              Corporations area about the lie and about the swindle and about the responsibility dodge. Never believe the CEO of a corporation (Such as the United States Federal Corporation – now renamed) when he says, during a crisis, “Our company is on stable ground.” When you hear that statement GET OUT NOW!!! Because, he would never have had to say it if they were really on stable ground.

              Why would the president have said, “You can keep your doctor/plan…”? I’ll tell you why, because you and millions of others knew by the shifty crooks running the corporation (that poses as our government) that they were going to FVCKING CANCEL THEM!!! You knew it. I knew it. Most everyone did. Why would he say such a thing? TO DELAY YOUR REACTION!!! He knew it wasn’t true and it didn’t give a CRAP that he lied.

              You see, the crap people feed you isn’t to get you to believe it, at least not forever. Its to delay your reaction to what you KNOW IS GOING TO HAPPEN. Its to slow you down to keep you from putting your hands up to block the punches or to keep you from pulling your gun so they can pull theirs.

              When reading stuff like “You can keep your doctor…” or “I’m not going to try to take your guns…” understand that if they weren’t going to do it, they wouldn’t have to say it!!!

              • Calgacus

                That sonofabitch sold America the biggest lie in our history. And now the kiddos are gonna be propagandized to love worship him through the new govt school programming. Its all a set up for dictatorship. How many stupid people does it take to create a dictatorship? Seems to be about 50 million. Thats how many get govt cheese.

                Anytime that sonofabitch uses the phrase “Let me be clear’ I go off. Hes anything but clear. Hes a shifty con artist of the worst kind. All hes done is lie to America and hes been busted on those lies over and over again but those idiots on govt cheese dont even know. Wasnt it about a week ago here we got pissed at the story about that lardass who sat home smoking weed while others worked to support her with the ebt fixins?

                Dont trust the government. Dont trust the big biz men. Dont eat the cheese.

                • NetRanger

                  Let me be clear?

                  When I hear that (and its gotten me in a few embarassing pinches) I can’t help but blurt out “LET ME BE CLEAR I’M A [cebsored] LIAR!!!”

                  Its an Erckle moment, “Oh! Did I say that? Why, yes I did. And I meant it too!”

                  They lies have become unmanageable.

                • Anonymous

                  Obama may be a liar, but the biggest lie ever told? What about Bush and weapons of mass destruction? I knew Iraq didn’t have those weapons. All I had to do was listen to the inspectors that said there was no evidence and use my brain. It’s fine to hate Obama, but if you don’t hate Bush, Clinton, Bush, Reagan, then you haven’t been paying attention.

              • NetRanger

                …it is in this way that normalcy bias kills. Listen to the exact words of every politician. Know that if they are reassuring you, then, its time to do the opposite. Almost everything The Kenyan has said has happened in the opposite. I am quite proud of my fellow Americans. They’ve been waking up by the millions.

                After Sandy Hoax, its over. We know what they’re doing and we know what they want to do.






                Once they get the guns, its all over folks. Don’t give them up for ANYTHING. Let them pass their color of law codes and ink it on paper with liquified bullshit. There is only one law. State and federal constitutions. The last copy of the constitution that was valid was one printed in 1860. Everything else is a lie.

                (Daily Sandy Hoax Anomaly: The police pronounced them dead and barred the EMTs from entering and then the coroner did the official signings. This is totally illegal under Connecticut color-of-law since in every case but the most traumatic, EMTs *ARE* *REQUIRED* to attempt to revive the victimes. Out of 26 victims there were NO ATTEMPTED RESUCITATIONS!!!)

                Makes You Go: “Hmmmmmmm…”

                I think I could do one a day for the next year or so. Your coroporation-posing-as-your-government is lying to you about EVERYTHING. Believe them at your own peril.

                • Hunter

                  Net Ranger-

                  Damnit boy!!!

                  Its good to see your ass back to postin’!!!!

                  Welcome home, bro’.

                • Jim Bob

                  It’s also quite interesting that the Sandy Hook families, and the town, have requested NO media coverage on the 1 year anniversary. Added to that the local district attorney has FINALLY turned over the 911 recordings to the media after being ordered by the court to do so back in September, he was going to keep fighting the ruling but decided to release them now as further delays would be pointless. This is being proposed as the families wanting to be alone to observe the anniversary, but the news has gotten out that a lot of them have been accused as being disaster actors. This is also the same group who desperately wanted media attention a year ago to raise the banner of firearms confiscation, but now has decided they want no publicity? A rather curious turn of events I must say, maybe the accusations of the whole thing being a hoax have hit too close to home for comfort?

            • TheGuy

              Of course you can keep your dollars.

              Everyone needs toilet paper…

            • snake eater

              well why wouldn’t we believe him???????????????????That poor man is doing the best he can its just all those republicans beating him down,,,,,,,,,


              p s .I hope you done believe what I`ve written

              • Them Guys

                MSM Desries Us to be Very Very Happy! That we now have shown the entire world at large that americans has elected The Most UPPITY, Racist, Anti White, Anti American, totally Marxist-Frankfurt-Trained little Monky, the lib dem kommies were able to locate and present to all as The Hopey Changey sort of Messiahman any nation can possibly want as their dear leader.

                And his Sheboon wifey makes Him look like a 5yr old ammature! Damn Kommies all.

          • old guy

            I think if its only a economic collapse we will go back to the 1800,s in a short time. 90% will die. those left alive wont live long enough to see a return of 2014. My biggest concern is the nuclear power plants. who is going to stay and keep them from melting down? However the clatyclisms that are being caused by the ongoing pole shift will also endanger the nuclear plants. The only 100% shure thing is I don’t know anything for 100% shure!

      • SilverSax

        The gov’t knows we’re in the middle of a collapse. To them they’re just “managing” the collapse.

        • Rodster

          Bingo !

          That’s exactly it. They know we are on slow cruise towards a collapse and are preparing but so are all the other major economies. They know math and it doesn’t take a genius to figure out where all of this is heading. They are preparing and biding time just like we should as well.

          • Be informed

            There is a whole slew of disasters that can and WILL happen. I say WILL because these are events that MUST happen. These are the natural disasters that hit and will hit again on the basic science that says everything is seeking balance and equalibrium. When you see a hurricane, this is nature’s air conditioner that is trying to cool off the ocean waters. After a hurricane you will notice a big difference in ocean temperature. An earthquake is the plates attempting to release tension and continue drifting in their own direction. A supervolcano is like the steam release on a pressure cooker that must eventually be released. When the Sun belches up a X-50 flare it is the Sun attempting to balance itself. It is how severe and how it affects everything else around it is how it is weighed in on the scale of a catastrophe.

            These events must happen, nature’s balance. Other events such as asteroid impacts actually don’t have to happen. Pure chance dictates that they will as an orbiting body should sooner or later cross paths with another body. The more bodies, the more chance there is of such a collision.

            Man made disasters are like this, they DON’T have to happen. The odds just say that each year goes by that they will. The mere fact that the planet has finite space, finite resources, finite arable land, finite water, even finite air. There is a breaking point in which there will be too many people in regards to one or all of these factors. The amount of arable land says the peak level is about 7 and 1/2 billion to 9 billion depending on how well the agriculture is able to advance itself. Other breaking points could be higher or lower depending on many issues. Viruses and other deadly pathogens always tend to break out with ANY life form that crosses the threshold of too many. There are countless examples of this from bacteria to insects to mammals to reptiles to marine life to the plant kingdom.

            The problem with any shortages is that people as a species DON’T ever tend to ration and try to make do with what is available, they fight lesser opponents for what they can take. This is where the war problem comes in. The stronger will attempt to maintain their life style and will use whatever means necessary to. War doesn’t mean a period of destruction, rebuilding, then an era of prosperity. War this time around means the end of civilization. It means a world that resembles what these post end of the world type movies like “The Road”, “The Day After”, “Mad Max”, “Threads”, “Testament”. As soon as you see the missiles launched it is overwith life as everyone knew it. Again, this doesn’t have to happen, but the odds are increasing daily.

            You can survive a nuclear war on a global scale. You can survive a massive gamma ray pusle. You can survive a supervolcano. You can survive most anything IF you are prepared enough. This is why everyone should prepare for the absolute worst to the best of their ability. A lesser SHTF event is much, much, much easier to make it through the more you are prepared. it is only a suggestion, but everyone right now should consider preparing for the end of the world as you know it. Anyone over prepared is going to be very grateful to how much better they handle a moderate or minor SHTF disaster.

            • OutWest

              God wasted brains on the human race

              • Be informed

                @ OutWest. I look at it this way. Whether it is a natural calamity or a manmade catastrophe or a combination of the two that ends civilization. Is it better to have 10 cans of soup or 3. Something massive is coming, regardless of what it is the more that someone has of what they need the better chance they have. This also includes knowledge and wisdom on top of supplies. Right now it is kind of irrelevant what is coming, just be prepared as best as you can to live without society for an extended period of time. You are correct, in comparison to the tiny squirrel brain that says to prepare and the 99% of people that fail to use their much larger in comparison brains, it is a waste.

              • JustMe

                Disagree. What you see going on, is Nature, controlled by a few people.

                Look out into the cosmos. As we speak, read, and write, there are stars going supernova, galaxies colliding, and all manner of natural diaster. All just part of Creation.

                Nature, or God, if you will, gave us brains and the opposing thumb. Without the ability to reason and physically articulate, we would not have gotten this far. For every bad thing we have created and/or destroyed, something good has also come.

                It is true, our civilization is circling the drain, but that is because a relatively small group of people decided that if they can’t own it all, neither can you. Their goal is ownership, or scorched Earth.

                Side notes about WW1:

                All the royal families of Europe, and Russia, were intermarried, to prevent such wars. Even so, the royals of Britain, and Russia, plotted for such a war.

                Britain made plans for 20 years before the war, to fight Germany, not because they physically feared them, but because of their economic potential.

                America entered the war because of the Balfour Agreement, no other reason. (Kind of like our current wars…)

                France long coveted the Rhineland because of iron and coal resources, and were ready to go.

                Russia wanted eastern Europe, long before the reds came to power, so they were ready too.

                • OutWest

                  I will respectfully counter disagree, JustMe.

                  The ability of Man to reason was a good thing.
                  But it came encumbered with the stumbling block
                  of avarice and greed.

                  This is what mankind has never been able to keep
                  under control, despite his superior intelligence.

                  In spite of the idea of the downfall of civilization
                  being in the hands of the relatively few and the
                  reckless, does not excuse the majority from blame,
                  as they wallow in their extravagance with equal and
                  unbridled abandon totally ignorant of the power to
                  halt their own self-imposed destruction.

                • JustMe

                  Avarice and greed, are what we all consider negative attributes, that is true. But that does not condemn humanity, because a few are really good at it, and most are blind to it.

                  Most people are conditioned from birth, to accept the lies they are fed. That is why they slip into cognitive dissonance when confronted with things they have been told all their lives to reject.

                  Civilization, is really a “faith-based” system, not in a religious sense, but an overall costruct. You have faith your neighbors will be nice, and do right. You have faith in your country’s currency. You have faith in your political systems. It all also comes under the header of “the social contract”, etc.

                  It is not that the veil of lies is wearing thin, from these things we have been told to believe in, it is that more people than ever, have to face the consequences of those lies.

                  As more people have to face those lies, many will fight to continue to pretend all is well, because they have been told all their lives to know nothing else. This should not condemn humanity. Those who know better, and willingly subjugate their fate to those who would destroy them, condemn themselves.

                • Johnny

                  The American agreement is correct, but what made actual people from America join the stupid WW1, was the invention of “Propoganda” by Edward Bernays…That coke head fraud’s nephew. The book basically states that we are morons and the “elite” need to “control” use. Reading the book made me so mad, I had to drink. Kinda makes you want to take a trip to Yale and walk around the skull and bones building, wait until one of those jerks walks out, and beat that preppy down, hard working, blue collar style. Sorry for the run on. That book just makes me so mad.

                • old guy

                  jUst Me has one valid point. for every action there is an equal & opposite reaction. For every so called bad thing there is an equal good result. Everything eventually comes out Even Steven. The fact is you cannot make something out of nothing like perpetual motion it is impossible. likewise you cannot make something into nothing. that something will still exist some place some were in some manner. it will be changed & altered but still present. there is no shuch thing as the balance of nature. In order for balance of nature to exist everything would have to be static. there is such a thing as the planet cosmos nature seeking balance and that seeking causes constant change. There isn’t a optimal climate,society, number of population ect. and there isn’t any person group or government who has the authority to try and dictate what the optimal should be. In the greater context of time mans reighn on earth is less than the point of a needle in the whole cosmos

              • Brane Frees

                “God wasted brains on the human race”

                Not all that many, however.

              • Hawk

                actually Creator gave every animal enough brains….
                to tan their own hide.

            • Gods Creation

              “””but everyone right now should consider preparing for the end of the world as you know it.”””

              No, everyone should be building their own sustainable world they can live in no matter what happens to the masses, commerce, or the corp.

              Don’t prepare for the end of the world as you know it, make your world what you want it to be today and in the future, then fight to protect it should the need arise.

              If your world is sustainable, it will not collapse not matter what may happen to others when the corp collapses.

              • Be informed

                @ Gods Creation. If preparing for more means a 60 day supply of food and other needs instead of a 30 day, or a 1 year as opposed to a 90 day, then that extra push is worth it. The higher the expectations that someone aims for, the higher their level of preparations is going to be.

                Too many people plateau out at a certain level of supplies in their stockpile thinking that this is good enough. In reality no one should ever stopped adding that little extra to their supplies. It might be a bag of screws, an extra tool, some more of a first aid item, some more candles, sewing equpiment, plastic sheeting or tarps, the list goes on.

                Never should any prepper/survivalist stop prepping and adding what they can, because after society collapses for whatever reason there will be much regret that what they could have added they didn’t. That was my point.

                • dmitry


                  very well said. thanks

                • GV

                  “after society collapses for whatever reason there will be much regret that what they could have added they didn’t”

                  EXACTLY! This thought (and its subsequent actions) are foremost in my mind on a daily basis. If you can’t make leather gloves, you’d best have a large supply of them. You don’t want bugs overrunning your abode? You’ll need to have something on hand for those critters. There are a million things to have on hand, and you can get them a little at a time; which may be lifesaving or at least very comforting when the time comes.

                  Our family also has a daily talk about gratitude for what we have now, because we know it won’t last. We talk about how much we enjoy running water (though we purify it before using it), electricity, communication and instant searches on the internet.

                  OTOH, we also talk about how we wish the masses (which we don’t consider ourselves part of) would go back to thinking for themselves, instead of parroting the media and glorifying celebrities and their lifestyles.


                • Anonymous

                  Amen brother, whether is’s a hurricane, power outage or government/economic fallout……One is none and two is one . Prepare !

                • old guy

                  BI most always I agree with you postings. Not really disagreeing but pointing out something. Having a 30 day or even a 30 year food supply isn’t surviving. that is simply enduring. Being able to have a comfortable life indefinitely sustainable by being versatile and having know how is surviving.

            • Bobi

              Once again you are rigth ! Mister Mandela funerals are a decoy many celebrities will be there could be a black swan we shall see you guys take care bob out

              • lonelonmum

                A new world trade agreement was signed off the day Mandela’s death was announced.

                It pushed the details of that trade agreement off the front page.

                Divert the masses attention from the real news. We all know there was nothing good in that World trade agreement for the ordinary Joe.

                “Bread & Circuses”.

                • KY Mom


                  Good point. The media is saying little about this new ‘agreement’.

                  WTO (World Trade Organization) hails ‘historic’ first global trade agreement.
                  Yahoo News – Dec. 7, 2013

                • Peterson

                  Great job KFC, that news story totally affects my life and freedom!

                • possee



                  The 100 heads of state are attending the Mandela funeral to “celebrate” their carving up of Africa…


            • Jeff

              BI, a great evening to you, sir. As I see it the reason why we have wars is more or less the same reason why we have crime. Guy A wants what guy B has, and is willing to commit murder to take it away from him. And since guy B wants to keep what he has and live to enjoy it, he is kill guy A. Human nature is the same, only difference is scale and the weapons used.

              • .02

                Jeff, the question that arises is, why does guy A decide to take it upon himself to take what belongs to guy B?

                • maddog

                  Because he is a low information voter and believe’s people like Ocommie, Dingy Harry and P’lousey. Best I can do after a long day.

                • sixpack

                  “why does guy A decide to take it upon himself to take what belongs to guy B?”

                  That’s easy—because guy A thinks he’s entitled to what guy B has.

                • .02

                  Sixpack, that still doesn’t account for the why. Sure he takes it upon himself, but what is the catalyst that is the deciding factor of why?

                • JustMe

                  The same reason mentioned in the article:

                  “We will starve if they take the food truck away”

                  “I want that because I want/need/never had that, therefore I can take it.”

                  Or some dirivative thereof…

                • .02

                  Justme, it boils down to ” I am more important than you, so I DESERVE this, so I am taking this because I need this. I have 2 brothers, one dead and one getting closer and both are/were thieves and the sin of pride is the catalyst. BOTH of them think themselves more worthy than others so the concept of stealing from others is justified. Alive one still says about anybody he knows is “I have no use for them.” No friends, hardly any relatives will talk to him because he “uses” people or he has no banter with them, justified by the prideful arrogance of he being more worthy of everyone else on this planet. A very prevalent syndrome today in amerika exemplified by black friday. SHTF, we are in trouble b/c there are going to be literally millions of like minded people justified in killing anyone for anything b/c of the sin nature of pride. Sermon is now over.

                • sixpack

                  .02, entitlement IS all the “why” they need. There doesn’t need to be a disaster, war or crisis. We have prisons full of people who thought they were entitled to other people’s stuff. They didn’t even need a disaster. Some didn’t even have a need.

                  Yes, they feel their needs are more important than others, but that doesn’t translate into the whole rationale of stealing.

                  Being narcissistic doesn’t necessarily mean they think it’s okay to steal, but entitlement does. If they feel they have a RIGHT to your stuff, there is no rational reason in their minds, not to take it from you…until the lead starts flying.

                • PO'd Patriot

                  There’s really no thought to it. Just survival kicking in according to surrounding circumstances. A- I never thought this collapse would happen, didn’t prepare and now my family and I are starving. B- I know where someone has a lot of food and I’m going to take some.

                • old guy

                  because guy B has a 3day supply of food and guy a hasn’t ate a meal in 3 days.

            • gone under

              @ BI… agree…Got that hepa filter we talked about a while back. The only BofA was 40 miles way. Friday I went to make a deposit into a relative’s account and there was a sign saying the atm and computers were down and to go to the closest branch, (45 more miles)I thought F%$K that and went home. Today I called and found out that branch closed and a 3 others that are 40-70 miles farther. So I mailed a check to her. I guess after researching, BofA and Chase are closing around 20% of thier branches to cut cost… Can you say “haircut” or stealing from the depositers. I bank with a small bank and withdraw all $$$ except enough to cover checks. Highly recommend everyone here consider doing the same.

              • Them Guys

                .02: I will tell you why usa went into WWI. It was because england was loseing badly to germany, who never wanted any war and tried several times to retain peace.

                Yet Once war was ongoing and brits were loseing with zero hopes to go on longer…ENTER: The zionists bunch!

                Them zios went to meetings with brit honchos and basically said “If You brits give us zionists a written Dated Signed “Balfour Document” to Give Us Palestine lands and fund our move to there and back us changeing palestine into israel, We zios in Britian shall contact Our zio bretheren that are inside the USA-Whitehouse! as it is They who now control the usa Prez Mr. Wilson…And Our usa zios shall “convince” Prez wilson to send usa troops etc as Allies of england so the war can continue longer, more war profits can be swindled, and germans will lose the war.”

                As can be expected the Brits even though they Already had agreements with the Arabs to own palestine etc, basically screwed arabs deals from prior and had Mr Balfour write a document and the brits gave it to zionists…USA entered the War, even though Wilsons main claim as to why he should be elected revolved around “A Vote for wilson means NO european wars for americans! That I PROMICE!”

                Wilson kept his no war promice just under one full year, then caved in to zionists pressures Here in america and Millions died.

                Oh yeah reason #2 for WWI was as a smoke screen to Hide what evils and butchers in russia, them bolshie khazar jewish kommies, were doing to overthrow russia and mass murder 100+ million whiteys and christians.

                WWI really had nothing to do with A-wants to Take from B so B shoots A etc etc…..It was ALL about zionists desires to have a State of their Own so they can Make Laws, Own armys and weaponerys, totally Control that state, and basically create a safe haven for various big time zio jewish mobsters around the world, so that when the Heat is too Hot due to their non stop massive swindles and Nation Wreckings also non stop(nation wreckings) now the Mob members will have a State to Hide in plain sight and where new Laws Prohibit any nations from Extraditing said jewish mobsters and swindlers(think Soros writ large and Many more like he).

                PS: This Main articles Writer deserves kudos for actually stateing how history was written by the war winners, and unlike “most” writers hes obviously Not towing the usual line of totaly bashing Germans etc…Well Done Sir!

            • senormechanico

              Boiled down to a few words:

              Shit Happens, Be Ready For It.

            • Anonymous

              I tend to think all the hype about asteroids and space aliens and a massive
              Volcanic eruption is all poppy cock.

              How is it that a natural disaster or extra terrestrial
              Event falls precisely when we are having the worst
              Financial problems in our history?

              I don’t buy it. I do believe they (Globalists) will release
              One of their shelved superbugs if there is a meltdown though.

              All that other mess is just intended to distract us, where
              Oh where is the little red ball; which shell have we
              Hidden it under?

              • old guy

                Its planned. the goverments know the pole,s are shifting and clatyclisms will continue to increase in magnitude & occurance. they destroyed the economy on purpose. the elite thing they will be safe in their underground cities that they have built with funds from the public coffers. Check out Mount Weather. on the surface the nuke powerplants will melt down. the volcanic gasses will poison the air. the volcanic cloud will block the suns warmth freezing many. the shifting tectonic plates will cause much flooding. 90% of all life will perish. I hope the eliet,s underground citys become their toombs.

          • .02

            “They are preparing and biding time just like we should as well.”

            By the looks at the arms race in between who gets the ammo, gov or the people, it looks like a recipe for one hella war about to kick off.

            • JustMe

              They are going for all methods to cut it off. They are even going for a state-led (geuss which ones) Constituional Convention. For everyone’s own good of course…

              • Them Guys

                For CON-CON info: Read Edwin Viera articles about why a const conventions a Bad bad idea! at website of newswithviews dot com Edwin has about 75 articles at that webiste and a couple are info on a con con.

                His last couple articles argue how and why the son of chuck Baldwin, both also write there, the son baldwin is Pro con con in cahoots with radio shill Mark Levin whos really pushing a con con as well as his new Book on how good an idea it is…Edwinn tells why Baldwins son is flat out wrong headed on his views for a con con.

                Baldwin Jr and Levin both seem to believe we can Majically count on the Good nature and good will of whoever us congress Appoints as the const committee that WILL have total control of whats added OR subtracted from current us const!….I do NOT Trust any convention members appointed by this or any Other us congress!

                I also distrust levin since like beck hes so pro zionists etc and worse yet levins a certified zio tribal member!

                Not sure if hes also a Dual citizen? May was well be.

        • Roseman91

          S S
          Nicely put, I agree totally.
          And what a bad job they are doing!
          See you in the trenches.

      • ChazzD

        Gods Creation,

        I can’t agree more!! Anyone who thinks society is too civilized to collapse obviously did not watch any videos from Black Friday. That is how the collapse of a society starts!!!!

      • Man on the inside

        God’s Creation: There will be winners and losers. The government knows this. It will be a slow spiral into a second world country AKA Spain, France, Britain. China and Russia are become allies (sort of) and both countries are debt free for the most part. They also have or have access to massive natural resources. This was prophesized in the Bible “kings of the east”. China will be the number one economic power in about 15 months. We will be number two and falling. With Russia as an ally they will have a combined military that will be larger than ours in 2018. Add in fodder nations like North Korea and Iran and you can see what is going on here. Many people in Britain and Germany during and after the World WarII did well. They knew what assets to have and where to have their money (Swiss Gold). Learn from this. You can’t change history or stop time but you can position yourself to do well and provide for your family. Live in a rural area. Have GOD, GOLD, GUNS, GRUB, GROUND, and as many useable skills as you can. Have Team Mates. Don’t go alone at this. Get off the system as much as you can. Be debt free as much as you can. Do as much as you can on your own (farming, hunting, sewing, canning ect.) Start setting up networks and Teams NOW so you can all share the load. Practice everything you learn over and over. If you do just a little each month it adds up quick. PRAY, PLAN PREP, FORM TEAMS….. and finding Jesus as your savior is a big help…. Just sayin…..

      • Mclovin

        My ex is ground zero evidencb for people being vicious savages capable of stealing my any means necessary including using the vag as their tool of choice.

        • Mclovin

          sorry let me re-type that without the typos: “My ex is ground zero evidence for people being vicious savages capable of stealing by any means necessary including using the vag as their personal tool of choice.”

          • What? in MN

            I have to ask, exactly what did it run off with?

            • PO'd Patriot

              The spoon?

          • What? in MN

            Ha! What exactly did “it” steal?

          • Tom T

            I have an ex like that!! Why are divorces expensive? Because they are worth it!! :)~

            If you really want to see how well society holds up in a crisis, go to a home depot in FL before a hurricane hits. Better yet, go about four days after the storm hits and see how well society is holding up. I have been though about 10 myself. The worst was Andrew wasnt in it but had to go do military work. People guarding a pile of bricks that used to be their house with their ins. Policy number spraypainted out front and a looters will be shot sign next to the driveway. We were lucky as we were on base with nice young soldiers w/ M4s guarding our AO so you could count the gunshots you hear from town and relax. Very civil as most folks only fired once or twice with only a few completely emptying a magazine.

          • sixpack

            Mclovin, are you trying to politely say that some people, meaning women, will use SEX to get what they need? Sounds like you may have some experience with that, judging by your contemptuous tone…

            Allow me to make a couple of points.

            1. If any man/woman wants sex so badly, that he’ll hand over “stuff” for it, it isn’t theft, it’s more properly called BARTER…or prostitution.

            2. Any man who can’t control his urges or himself, just because there’s a pussy waved in his face, has problems of his own to deal with. Problems only he can deal with.

            3. Everyone should be prepared to recognize and deal with DECEPTION, whether SHTF or not. If someone wants to pay for sex, that’s their business, but it is their own fault if they fail to recognize the possibility of deception (and possible loss), simply because their hormones are raging. Like everything else, this is something we need to prepare for.

            • Mclovin

              I agree sixpack… I agree

            • NoRegretVet

              Ref: Sixpack…And a bunch of others who have posted:

              Ok…Sixpack for our new Emperor…Well maybe king…Ok, How about at least the Squad Leader !!! Some great posts!!!

              I personally think that this group of posts are some of the absolute “Best” I have read on here in a while…..

              My Take comes from My Life Experiences..

              1) have lived in a Third World country

              2) I have lived under Martial Law….A Federalist Republic…Socialism….and several other Ism’s

              3) I am a Vietnam Veteran/Oathkeeper/And Damn Proud of Both……

              4) I have seen the Worst of Humanity and the Best.

              5) I grew up around the ” I am Entitled ” mentality…and gone back to see that they are on the 4th generation of that school of thought…

              6) I don’t think until you have ” Smelt it,Dealt it,and Felt it ” will you realize what it is going to look like…

              The Storm is coming….and it may be closer than most think….And it is going to be Damn Ugly…and I truly don’t know very many people who are ready for all that will come….and be able to deal with the depth of what a enormous SHTF scenario it will be….

              There are many Truisms ….but I know these to be real:

              ” You Can Ignore Reality…
              But You Can Not Ignore the Consequences of Ignoring Reality “….Aynn Rand


              ” Anyone Will Do Anything…given the right set of circumstances and scenarios “…Palmer Gautney

              ” The Hegelian Dialectic ” is real and has existed for centuries…and used on us for our entire lives…

              It will be a jungle/FUBAR when it arrives….So, cinch yourselves in….I believe it is going to be one helluva ride !!!

              I am through talking now…

              • snake eater

                No Regret

                Thank you brother and welcome home


            • PO'd Patriot

              Love Hurts-Nazareth

            • cabinfever

              Sexually transmitted disease will be off the charts. It’s not how God intended.

          • Lost In The C.R.C

            Wait till the SHTF, all these “I’m equal to a man” bimbos will man up quick seeking a protector to save their hatchet wound from certain sexual abuse. Thin veneers of society make poor barriers to savagery. It won’t be pretty, but the neo-feminist movement will grind to a screeching halt.

            Tired of women springing the cat to run the show? Wait till Armageddon! It will be the scrappin, straight-shootin, bring home the bacon taking care of business men they will seek, not the foo foo pretty boy with the baby face and the six pack abs who wastes hours on end going to the gym to maintain who doesn’t know how to do anything besides work out.

            The world’s reversion to “The Law Of Nature” will straighten things out….

        • Jim Bob

          Wow, how stupid has humanity been for thousands of years spent working and sweating for everything when all we had to do was print our way to prosperity! Here comes Krugs with his brand new quadrillion dollar platinum coin! Enough to pay all current and future debt, rebuild the entire national infrastructure, give everybody a check for a million bucks, and still have enough left over for the biggest party in history! All hail the krug!

      • DieselDan

        Thank God for preparations , fell on the ice up here two weeks ago in the road. Without my prior planning for some unseen events I would be at a loss right now! 170 a week for temporary dissability doesn’t even make the land payments, I’ll have to work a little harder when I get back at it, but I’m great full that I made some sacrifices over the yrs and have some stockpiles. Worst part is I can’t get the deer season back let a few walk and I won’t be doing that in the future!! Stay the course friends a personal SHTF can happen anytime!

        • REB

          Glad youre okay…I fell flat on my back about 3 weeks ago on ice and the edge of a cement block and just laid there looking at the stars trying to decide why they were staying there in front of my face after the spinning stopped….then I realized it was dark outside and it was real stars in the sky ;)…still have a catch in my hip from that but its working itself out…at least the pain between my shoulders a skull has gone away…Thank God Ive got a hard head!…again, glad youre okay!

      • guy

        Anyone know what planetary devastation is? It’s very scary. Word of advice, don’t let the first few seconds of the video fool you, you have to keep watching towards the middle of the scene.

        Can you get ready for this???

      • level6

        each familial collapse is another family that has a grudge against the system, and ill therefore fight harder. IMHO

      • WhoWuddaThunkIt

        When the Food Runs out, The Hunger Games Begin…

    2. DumbDude

      I can’t even make sense of history, much less predict the future. So I try to prepare in reasonable ways for tough times – if they don’t come so much the better. If they do, my family should be able to eat and live.

      • sixpack

        Now that’s a good attitude for anyone and everyone.

    3. braveheart

      It seems like very time I turn around there’s an article like this one coming along advertising the virtues and importance of prepping. I stopped talking to anyone about prepping many years ago. They think I’m a nutcase and just don’t care. they think we’ll always have ‘just-in-time’ delivery to the stores, etc. Nope, one day MEGA-SHTF WILL HAPPEN, and there will be NO MORE ‘JUST-IN-TIME’ DELIVERY OF ANYTHING TO ANYWHERE, PERIOD! Everyone, get your storable food, water, water purification items, medical supplies, weapons, ammo, etc. now before it’s too late. Get what you need to keep you and your loved ones alive while you still can. braveheart

      • OutWest

        Hi braveheart, good to see you back my friend

        In the World of normalcy bias, we Are the nutcases —

        until it happens.

        Then we’ll get to wear T-shirts that say — “GURU” …

        • braveheart

          Good evening, OutWest. In the case of the GURU t-shirt, I think I’ll get one of those early. You just gave me an idea for a Christmas gift.

        • NoRegretVet


          Hell maybe that is where us “Nutcases” are missing the boat…

          I have read tons of statements…sayings….and thoughts on here that would make some great T-Shirts and could make us a ton of $$$$$$$ !!!

          Anybody wanta go into the T-Shirt Business….

          Well…as I always say ” I have an Idea…It is not much of one…but I gotta an Idea !!! “

      • Peterson

        Prepare for everything and anything… Braveheart ON!

    4. Tactical

      Most people act as savages during Black Fridays or the release of a stupid new video games. In a real social economic collapse, natural disasters etc., expect the savagery to increase exponentially. During Katrina even the crooked New Orleans cops were part of the zombie hoard and committed crimes.

      As far as real world, if and when the kids go hungry watch out for the parents. No parents will or should witness the suffering of their children and that’s just the law of the nature in our animal kingdom which we are part of it.

    5. Caliber

      Black Friday shows how civilized we are.
      if people act like that for TV’s and things they WANT.. imagine how they will act for things they NEED.

    6. Prepared Pastor

      People who think this also believe that people are inherently good and therefore have no need of salvation. To admit people are inherently evil is to admit they need a savior.

      • DRD5508

        PP, very true. Their are 2 types of uncivilized people: those with power and those in need, and when they two are in the majority (combined) all civilization and nature suffers.

      • Gravlore

        I agree that people need a savior but the definition of evil is not so black and white and neither is the reason they need a savior. It matters in which era you were born. Today I agree abortion is wrong due to knowledge and medicine. When man first roamed the planet post birth abortion was a common practice if the baby was sickly or puny. ‘Cavemen’ had only so much resource and if it looked like it was going to be wasted on said child then the baby was put down. Is this evil or just survival?

        The perception of evil is in the eye of the person who thinks _____ is evil. Murder is evil to me but ok for me to partake in when someone wants to murder me. So you see there is justification and an arguement for evil on its surface. If evil was evil then I would forfeit my food knowing that somewhere, someone else is dying of starvation and could live if my food was allocated to them instead of me. Its just more indirect. In essence saving my life is costing someone else theirs. So evil in this sense is Darwinism (survival of the fittest or in many cases, whos womb you fell out of). Not saying I agree with what I just wrote, but it is a philosophy.

        Then again these are my definitions of evil and maybe they are just fopahs to others. First everyone must agree what evil actually is, in order to define why one needs a savior for said evils.

        • AZ PREPPER

          Really !!!!

        • SilverSax

          The definition of “evil”, and the reason people need a savior, are indeed black and white. Both are found in the Bible.

          • sixpack

            The Bible isn’t “black and white” either, that’s why Jesus often spoke in PARABLES. Parables are open to interpretation and so is a lot of the Bible. Even “life and death” seems to be open to interpretation, people can’t agree on the confines of either state of being.

            God gave us higher brain functions so we could use them to think for ourselves, to reason and to interpret our world…including God.

            • LngTrmReadr1stPost

              The parables were because “it’s not given for all to understand” the truths spoken

            • SilverSax

              No, God’s word is black and white. There’s no ambiguity with God. He doesn’t dither around, but says exactly what he means.

              • OutWest

                You mean God doesn’t haggle!! OH oh …..

              • Paranoid

                You are right no ambiguity, that’s why there are a 100 religions and thousands of years of war between them. But no doubt YOUR interpretation is the correct one. DO YOU HAVE TO TAKE MORE THAN ONE STUPID PILL A DAY?

      • SWFL

        I agree that people are fallen and prone to evil but I don’t need a savior. I already have one.
        I guess a lot of people feel that way. Even a false savior gives a sense of security as long as you can force the conclusion and hide inconvenient facts. Maybe that is part of the dynamic preventing peaceful resolution under stress. “I can’t afford to give-in to doubt about my savior (because that is too scarey)so I have an intensely vested interest in proving my savior is the right one and will defend that idea to the death(preferably yours).”
        Since we all live in our own little worlds we cannot agree on what a savior is supposed to be. Until we are all living in the same world we will not recognize the same savior. When that time comes,of course, each of us will recognize that “our” savior in “our” world is The Savior of The world.
        I should live so long.

        • JustMe

          People are not “fallen”. That is a bogus guilt trip, designed to control you.

          • SilverSax

            “People are not “fallen”. That is a bogus guilt trip, designed to control you.”

            …says the man who knows better than the Holy Bible.
            The Bible has been around for close to two thousand years. Better men than you have tried to tear it down.

            They’re gone. The Bible remains.

            • Lucficer's Taxi

              Jesus loves you- go to the church of your choice and wait.
              (Sufficiently advanced stupidity, is indistinguishable from evil- Packwood’s Law.

            • JustMe

              Was I trying to “tear down” your Bible?

              • SilverSax

                @JM – Yes, because you deny that it’s true. If Man wasn’t “fallen”, there’d be no need for Christ’s sacrifice and redemption.

            • Facebook Page

              A man talking about a book written by men.

              • SilverSax

                Same thing applies to you, FP. Many men have been born, lived a God-rejecting life and died, but the Bible remains.
                It contains the words of life, which can change men’s lives…if they want it.
                It has predicted future events with precision and clarity.
                It can’t be torn down because it’s Truth. Trying to tear down Truth with lies is like trying to overcome light with darkness.

                But you know better, don’t you? Your exhaustive study of the Bible has revealed undeniable evidence of its falsity, right? Maybe you’d care to share with the rest of us some of the evidence you’ve found that no one else, in two thousand years, has been able to find.

                Here’s the truth – if you studied for a lifetime, trying to disprove the Bible, you’d find not one error in it.
                But if you study it in an attempt to find God, it’s right there to be found immediately.
                The problem’s not with God, or the Bible, but in your heart.

                • Indy Colts

                  Well said Silversax,

                  FBP…… crickets? Most people who refuse the Bible are angry people that want to blame everyone else for their short comings. As Christians, we expect hardship because Jesus told us the world would hate us because of his name.

                  How could anyone truly think this world happened by chance? or by some planets colliding. How come man can’t create life? Why does a heart beat? What keeps the sun from burning out? Why does wind blow? Need I go on? Face it, you can’t explain everything. It’s impossible to read the entire Bible and not be changed by it’s teaching.

                • Facebook Page

                  First all books survive

                  I completely reject religion in all forms. I never said I do not have belief that there is a power guiding my life.

                  All relegilon are corrupt and use as control of the masses. I dont need a book to tell me what to believe. If that is true charlie brown is more clear.

                  He did not tear down your book he disagreed with it.

                  And if the power that guides us can’t forgive me for not beleiveing a book that men wrote then I not sure if I want to be its follower.

                  As I said if you want to debate religious belief OK. But a man faith I never will. That is something you can only argue with yourself and make you own choice.

                • Any Mouse

                  “God” is an invention of man. Pick your diety, be it Zeus, Odin, Ra, Quetzalcoatl, Yahweh or whomever else you can think of. If Gutenberg would have never printed the bible it would have fell into the realm of myth and lore. The only reason that christian beliefs i.e. the bible persist is moveable type.

                  As a document, the bible has been proven time and again to have inaccuracies due to translation and even that whole volumes are missing from the text. while it does seem to contain some historically accurate events (the flood), it is nothing more than a collection of letters and stories.

                  Any truly independent thinker would recognize that religion is the oldest way to control the “sheeple”


                  The most dangerous weapon you can possess is an open mind.

            • NoRegretVet

              SilverSax…Sixpack…Pastor and others.

              I have no doubt about God..And I do know that you can never find an Atheist in a foxhole…..but concerning those who put their thoughts,beliefs, faith in concrete conerning the Bible..I would like to ask just a few simple questions of them: Questions, not argumentive, just questions:

              1) Do you speak Hebrew ? Have you studied the Hebrew language in reference to the days in which the Bible was written ? Words and their “True” meaning in Hebrew…Phrases and what they meant in Hebrew when the Bible was written…. And are your refering to the “Old” or the “New Testament” when you make statements ?

              2) Do you speak Greek….and have you studied that language and time from whence the writing/translation of the Bible came ?

              3) Why were there so many books/chapters choosen to tbe left out of the Bible ?

              If anyone does not have the knownledge of both of the above…How can you possibly understand “Exactly” what the words, as written then, truly mean and how it interprets to your basic faith based laymen of today…And PLEASE don’t go with the ” I live by Faith alone ” logic….That is not a factual or logical answer.

              Throughout life I have discovered that when asking a 100 different people to tell you the story of the Bible…You will get 100 different interpretations…why is that ?

              I do believe…..but I also have questions….logical…rational questions.

              • sixpack

                You are absolutely right, NoRegretVte, you just solidified my original point—the Bible IS open to interpretation, BECAUSE it is so old that it doesn’t apply as literally as it did when it was written.

                We no longer stone people to death, or whip them bloody for minor crimes. The ‘laws’ have changed.

                The places talked about no longer exist. The people and their ways/laws/cultures no longer exist as they were.

                There are MANY iterations of “The Holy Bible” now, and they all say different things. We have no choice, if we are to believe in the teachings, but to adapt them to our modern lives.

                God may not change, but the interpretation of His word does.

            • Paranoid

              Fossilized Dino pop has been around Thousands of times longer. What’s your point? If time is the Issue, the Buddhists and others are the correct ones.

          • SWFL

            I believe that you are mistaken and that we are inherently capable of being better than we show ourselves to be. We are fallen because we are living far below our spiritual natures.
            As far as guilt trips designed to control us, you are shooting too low. There are indeed guilt trips designed around partial statements of truth, but they are designed to enslave and not merely control. This has no effect on the truth of the original statement, anymore than the presence of counterfeit 20-dollar bills means there are no real ones.

            • JustMe

              The word “believe” implies a shadow of doubt, “faith” that something is true.

              You believe I am mistaken, because I stand by my assertion that humans are indeed capable of doing better than what makes the news?

              It is a mistake to believe that this physical reality is supposed to be like some perfect utopia, where everyone lives up to our personal expectations. That is not what it’s all about. Just because we have things happening that are inimical to us, does not mean that humanity is “fallen”, or inherently “evil”.

              If you wander off into the boonies, and get mauled and eaten by a predatory animal, does that mean the animal is inherently evil, incapable of doing better? Animals understand Nature better than people.

              Your Spiritual Nature is up to you to awaken, or not.

              • SilverSax

                Good luck awakening your own spiritual nature.
                The Bible says that our spirits are dead – apart from Christ.
                “In him was life, and the life was the light of men.”

                • SilverSax

                  “I am come that they might have life…”

              • SWFL

                The word “believe” implies a shadow of doubt, “faith” that something is true.
                True; I do not claim omniscience.

                You believe I am mistaken, because I stand by my assertion [People are not “fallen”. That is a bogus guilt trip, designed to control you.] that humans are indeed capable of doing better than what makes the news?
                No, I believe you are mistaken because I do not accept your premise that people are not fallen. Your assertion does not state that people are capable of doing better- your assertion implies that people are as good as they can get. If we are not fallen according to our natures then there is no “up” from where we are.

                It is a mistake to believe that this physical reality is supposed to be like some perfect utopia, where everyone lives up to our personal expectations. That is not what it’s all about.
                I agree with you.

                Just because we have things happening that are inimical to us, does not mean that humanity is “fallen”, or inherently “evil”.
                Agreed, that is not the evidence. We WILL experience adversity and opposition beyond our capability to prevent and not always as a result of our own failures. That is the way it is.

                If you wander off into the boonies, and get mauled and eaten by a predatory animal, does that mean the animal is inherently evil, incapable of doing better?
                Of course not. And, falling off a cliff and dying does not make the cliff (or me) evil either. Adversity is unpleasant, not necessarily evil. Bad things happen- that is the way it is.

                Animals understand Nature better than people.
                There we disagree. Animals don’t understand nature at all; they live their nature, just as people do. People have the capacity to understand and make the choice to develop themselves to their potential or not.

                Your Spiritual Nature is up to you to awaken, or not.

                If by awakening your spiritual nature you mean achieving your maximum spiritual potential then I agree; the choice is indeed up to you. The process, however, is not DIY.
                Or so I believe.

        • Mountain Trekker

          SWFL: Proverbs 14 vs.12 There is a way that seemth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death. Whether a Christian or not, much wisdom is to be found in the Book of Proverbs. Trekker Out!

          • SWFL

            I agree; don’t overlook this one, with a message dear to us all.
            ¶ Go to the ant, thou sluggard; consider her ways, and be wise:
            Which having no guide, overseer, or ruler,
            Provideth her meat in the summer, and gathereth her food in the harvest. Proverbs 6:6 – 8)

            • JayJay

              I Timothy 5:8….Anyone who does not provide for their relatives, and especially for their own household, has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever

              • SWFL

                And that was not merely an observation or good idea. It was actual instruction to an organizing community and recognized as a prerequisite to long-term group survival. One of those
                “That’s a good idea, I don’t care who you are.” things.

          • Paranoid

            Anyone who doubts there is wisdom in the Bible is a fool. Anyone who calls it; the word of God, hasn’t bothered to look inside the front cover and noticed it says Doubleday and Co, Not GOD. Anyone who goes around burning witches and fighting and killing over it; hasn’t bothered to pay any attention to what it’s trying to say.
            Unfortunately that covers a LOT of people

      • Paranoid

        People are both good and evil, everyone has a bit of both, And that’s why you have door locks and Browning HP”S. As far as God goes. I’d rather he take care of heaven and the stuff people cannot (Asteroids, Novas, CMEs etc) and let people do as they can. Only way we can learn and grow.

    7. quatimundo

      The “End” will be swift and final that is why it is called the “End”. The middle is now. If you don’t prepare now how can you prepare at the End? If you don’t understand the need for preparation there is no way you will ever understand unless you are stricken with an interim disaster. Even at that point many will not learn the lesson. That is what makes them “Cannon Fodder”. A Historian named Toynbee wrote “Continuity in Change” which should be mandatory reading for all Americans of High School age or older. Sorry if you don’t have yours, we have ours.

    8. Old Gringo

      People are too civilized and reasonable?
      Like WalMart Black Fridays? And were talking about toys here… not food and water. Too civilized & reasonable?
      You couldn’t make this stuf up. LOL

    9. oldwhatshisname

      No person or group of people trust this government; not citizens, not foreign governments. They know the last election was rigged and the setting administration is corrupt and a puppet on a string. Now, the political parties are worried because they are hear the rumble of a revolt by the American people.

    10. Basstard

      It is obvious to me that the world is itching for a fight just as it was before WW1. Christian/Muslim, Black/White, rich/poor, right/left. The players are different but something’s going to blow pretty soon.

    11. Man on the inside

      Pastor: Exactly!!!!

    12. Sgt. Dale

      What are they smoking for breakfast?
      Too civilized and reasonable. Holy crap Batman these guys are dumber than a box of rocks.

      Just look at Black Friday, When a sports team win a championship. power goes out for just a short period of time.

      The good folks here would helping people and working to get thing back in order.

      Zombies and Leaches will be tearing everything up and looting and killing people because of there color, what they are driving, and what kind of clothing that they are wearing. Just to name a few things.

      The Civilized ones like use are going be OK and will be reasonable.

      Hell you got young blacks walking down streets punching people in the head to knock them out. that’s civilized or reasonable?

      Its all smoke and mirrors to say people are too civilized and reasonable to turn into Zombies and Leaches. They are trying and hide what they know. That the SHIT IS GOING TO HIT THE FAN SO!!! Something is coming!

      Keep Prepping because we all know it’s B.S.


      • JustMe

        Their ideas of civilization are academic. They have never likely been in any position of hardship or concern for their life, or the life of anyone they care about.

        Your point about “Black Friday” is well put. It is indeed a black day all when “civilized” people care about is money and plastic junk.

        Perhaps that is what makes them think they are “civilized”…

        • Sigi

          The civilized people are either at home on Black Friday or not part of the melees you have in mind fi they go shopping that day. I am of the former persuasion.

          • Facebook Page

            I have traveled the world. And that civilized cover is so thin it only takes a slight breeze and it gone.

            • PO'd Patriot

              Exactly! A thin veneer.

      • sixpack

        Sgt. Dale, “dumber than a box of rocks”

        I don’t think rocks are so “dumb”. The are quiet and generally still. They don’t attract unnecessary attention to themselves, and if you butt heads with one—the rock always wins.

        • Facebook Page

          And they make great pets.

      • braveheart

        Good evening, Sgt. Dale, and I have to agree wholeheartedly. on the “knockout” game, not one of those monkeys will ever get close enough to me to touch me. Been carrying a pocket-size member of my “ventilation team” with me. It’s getting worse out here and no better. MOLON LABE braveheart

        • sixpack

          They’d better hit me hard and fast, and they better pray I don’t get to my feet…me and my little friend, that is.

        • Say When

          Hello, Bravheart!
          Missed you buddy..
          Although I fail to post as often as you, I do enjoy your posts.
          That said, I would like to say a few words about a true SHTF scenario. In the midst of Katrina even the safety forces were without ample supplies and were taking supplies from local WalMarts. Those in charge of the EMT’s and police forces failed to provide ample supplies. I do think there are justified situations where people will do what they have to do to survive in certain collapse situations. Right or wrong, people have to survive. Now,that said, I have seen videos of all the undesirables pillaging tennis shoes, big screen TV’s, etc. This is not survival, it is criminal behavior and should be punished severely. There may come a time when even preppers are separated from their basic survival supplies and will have to do things that they would not normally do.

          • OutWest

            Say when — your last line is absolutely true,
            but few here will come to that admission.

          • Paranoid

            I will NEVER eat P-Nut butter and Mayo sandwiches NEVER.

      • Smokey

        Spare us the moral relativism and inherent purity crap about our fellow man. Good people are made, not born. Our parents made us who we are today.

        But since all these criminals, zombies, and nihilists are inherently good and have no need of false religion or moral teachings, we should turn the other cheek to them, especially since we have no right to demand they actually live in a good and moral manner, right?

        Let us know how your belief system works out for you and your family when it hits the fan. Just don’t let your own ego kill your loved ones, eh? They deserve better, having put you in a position of trust and reliance.

    13. Horsenut

      No one can agrue that this planet is going through some changes that will drasticly impact the population. (Weather wise) Also no one can agrue that we have created a HUGE debt bubble that will pop at some point. What is arguable is which one will affect us first.

      It is going to happen (either or) there is nothing we can do to stop it. As suggested we can prepare for it!

      • Shootit

        Try 135.8 degrees Fahrenheit below zero. Lowest temp in recorded history. Take that Al.

        • gone under

          @ Shootit. Did you notice the previous coldest temp was south of this one? looks like the poles are shifting. Soon the north pole will be in Siberia and I wont have to plow/shovel snow in the future. Also I will have a longer growing season and plant some peach and citrus trees. The glass is half full.

    14. Ancient Echoes

      Like the article said, the reason people prepare is out of fear. If we could all, me included, learn to love instead of exhibiting fear, than we could turn things around in an instant. We are still playing Monopoly while some have changed the game to Chess. Playing by the rules of the game being played is the answer to success.

      • sixpack

        “Playing by the rules of the game being played is the answer to success.” — Sorry, but this is a thinking error. First, this isn’t a game, for us at least.

        You can’t win any game by playing with rules that your opponent makes, because he can change the rules to gain advantage any time he wishes, and he does change the rules.

        The only way to gain an advantage is to KNOW THE RULES but PLAY BY YOUR OWN RULES.

      • Tactical

        Ancient Echoes… So if I call the CEO’s of Chase and Goldman Sachs and tell them I love them and I’ll play by their rules of their own games ….do you think love will spread all over?

        You can’t love Evil. Nor You should play by Evil’s rules. In order for good to prevail, evil must be destroyed.

      • Smokey

        It isn’t a game, and the people we style as the opponents are quite aware of that. This is about the future of this country and our great American people, and if we are willing to see that future be a boot stamping their face, forever.

    15. Americamustbestopped

      FEAR…..False Evidence Appearing Real….Neale Donald Walsch, CWG.

      • Ancient Echoes

        Love that guy and his books. Put new thoughts in my head and helped with my search for truth.

        • Tactical

          Ancient Echoes. No argument on what you said and we are in agreement. However such love shouldn’t be the reason preventing anyone to defend themselves against satan and the satanic powers in this world.

    16. Mcdave

      “We’re a modern, civilized nation, not savages”
      See: “Knockout Game”
      ya, not savages. pfffttt

    17. maudy fricket

      Hurricane Andrew and Hurricane Katrina. Rodney King riots. Chicago Bulls win the championship riots. These are peanuts compared to what’s coming. Remember the 3 Little Pigs? I’m betting on the pig with the shotgun and the brick house.

    18. John

      See the mobilization scenario today. DHS purchases 1.6 billion rounds of hollow point ammunition, hundreds of military armored troop carriers, conducts personnel firearms training with civilian targets depicting women and children, dedicates hundreds of shooters with automatic weapons, killer drones and military vehicles and communications against a solitary 19 Boston bombing suspect, breaking into homes by force, etc. etc. and in response average citizens in fear of their lives and freedoms because of these totalitarian images as well as growing knowledge that their own elected representatives are passing laws like the Patriot Act and dozens of amendments attached to dozens of otherwise unremarkable laws systematically rendering The Bill of Rights and Constitution to a status of worthless paper. Yes, we’re there thanks to 911 which we now know was a false flag op conceived, planned and executed against it owe people expressly for the purpose of instilling gut wrenching FEAR in it’s entire population. This guy has nailed it.

    19. jim in Va.

      It accelerates faster every day. Its hard to keep up but we’ll still be ahead of the masses.

    20. Try this

      Let’s accept for a moment that: 1) a collapse is unavoidable due to the current social and natural structures and supports, 2) the “powers that be” know that we’re headed for a “collapse,” 3) the “powers that be” have absolute control over the social circumstances and can manipulate them at will.

      Is a man-made collapse better than a natural one? A man-made collapse (like war) at least has an “off switch.” Once things are culled to below-collapse levels, then “they” turn the “collapse” off. Better or worse than letting nature control the way of things?

      • SWFL

        With or without an off switch is a false dichotomy: assuming they have the control to start the depopulation event at their discretion they will still be unable to control the progression once begun. The system becomes too chaotic and they have to ride it out like the rest of us and take what comes. The idea of an “off switch” in illusory. I hope it bites them when the time comes.

      • JustMe

        Are you willing to hand your fate to someone to whom you may appear uneccessary?

      • Facebook Page

        #3 is in direct conflict of #1. Thinking though again.

    21. arco

      I agree, there will be ‘good’ people trying to keep it together and ‘bad’ people tearing it apart. The good need to stick together to fend off the bad. But now you are in the state that this article addresses; two sides in fear. One side fearful they will starve and another side fearful that the other side will take what they have.

      On a side note. I respect the people on this site and would like some recommendations. I am getting pretty well set on preps considering I’ve only been at it about two years. Mostly because I’ve lived the last eight years knowing that it can all be taking away in a day. I’ve got a good 6 – 8 months of food stores in the form of mostly canned goods and I’m thinking of supplementing with some dehydrated food.

      So whats the best? Mountain House, Wise or some other? And please not what you heard but what you have actually tasted and used.

      Thanks in advance for feedback

      • DieselDan

        Acro there both very good product but also the most expensive, I like thrive and provident pantry which are a little cheaper and just as good, also the LDS catalog has just expanded what it offers. LDS by far is the cheapest and also good quality, I’m not Mormon but I appreciate what they offer to non church members it’s also FREE shiping!!

      • .02

        I have MT House and eat it camping from those little packs in the sporting goods sections of many different stores. I haven’t tried the other brands but can tell you the MT House lasagna is really good. I like it to set a little longer than 15 minutes so things are a bit more tender. The packets they come in are handy and could be saved for water storage or protection of things as well. I get cases of 10 packets @ Costco for 44$. Cheaper than the Sporting good stores or wal mart. Most places are usually 5.50+ a package. You can also get #10 cans as well online. But then you have a bit of Opsec to deal with.

        • maddog

          best I can recommend is try them yourself to be sure you will be satisfied and actually eat it. However when one is hungry it will all be good. Some sites have sample packs you can purchase. As already noted LDS an Costco are good choices. You can pack your own at a LDS location. The local facility hear in the Reno area allows non church members use of the facility on Thursdays for free plus cost of food and containers.

      • Leauxryda

        Check out Honeyville Farms. Prices good, flavor good and they run regular specials. Cheap shipping cost too.

      • gone under

        raseberry crumble and chili mac by mountain house. mmmm. Just make sure you are in front when hiking.

      • Genius

        Well if you want a big dose of estrogen then get food made out of soy (wise, tvp, etc.) In the old days they wouldn’t even feed that shit to theyre cattle. Get real food and don’t get MRE’s unless you like eating out of dow chemicals dumpster. Mountain house is ok it tastes good but has more chems than I like, has theyre own brand (provident pantry that is good too.) Just look around but be sure to read the ingredients and decide if you really want to eat some of it.

    22. Socrates

      Anyone else getting the ‘Error 404 Not Found’ message when trying to respond to this article? Just tried multiple computers at different locations and got same thing. That should not be. The only thing that was the same was my username/email. If the NSA is sniffing my shit again, hold that thought….I have a big nasty Chinese food/scrambled egg fart for you.

    23. Kevin2

      Someone once said that the most civilized society is only seven missed meals from anarchy. For some its a few more; for others less. Regardless the end result being lawless behavior is a given under those circumstances.

      • JustMe

        Nine Meals Away From Anarchy, done in Britain, you can find it on youtube.

        • Kevin2



          The number varies depending upon the demographic. I’ll bet that Philadelphia in general and certainly South Philly in particular would crack far before nine or seven. Let them skip lunch and they’re angry; dinner too and they’re intolerable. You damn sure better have breakfast there the next morning.

          • Just_Sayin

            Just curious… where did you pull South Philly out of your hat ?

    24. REB

      Do what you can with what you have where you are….I say this a lot because its a fact of truism…seriously though all we can do is be aware and then act accordingly…I live as self-sufficiently as I can and use my skills in my daily living…modern man has gotten a long ways from the land in most cases and when youre used to buying your food at the store and having a certified mechanic fix your truck and some other licenced/permitted person to fix your sink or your(whatever)then the idea of doing it yourself is not only alien but scary and likely not going to happen…if you cant fix it do you really have it…not for long Id wager…not browbeating anyone just hoping folks will see the need to aquire skills and talent along with all their supplies and then act on it…know how to tear down and fix that firearm even if it means making some replacement parts yourself…understand your houses electrical and plumbing and how it works…educate yourself on engines and mechanical devices and how they work…the underlying principles of combustion and torque…basic of how fuels burn and what is needed to perform safe combustion in a stove or homemade rocketstove…how to dress that hog/chicken or milkthat cow/goat and make butter/cheese…how to do what has to be done…sure find other folks who know things and work together but make sure you round out your own personal knowledge to the max…you don’t want to be the guy that cant do what needs doing in a SHTF aftermath…at least I don’t that’s why I practice this daily trying to add to my knowledge and my tools anything and everything that I can remotely conceive of…living on this farm demands I do that or have to pay someone else to do it for me and that’s not an option…if I cant fix/build it I don’t want it…that’s just me…independence encompasses a lot of areas , almost all of lifes endeavors…now hop to it…learn something new…times a’wastin… 🙂 hope that makes sense to someone!

      • arco

        “living on this farm demands I do that or have to pay someone else to do it for me and that’s not an option…if I cant fix/build it I don’t want it…”

        AMEN. Some people call me cheap, I tell ’em I’m resourceful.

        • Gonetoolong

          Oftentimes I buy older equipment intentionally that is mechanical vs. computer board/electronic. Sometimes simpler is better and when it needs to be repaired it pays off to have less technology to deal with.

      • Ordinary Joe


        I think you hit the nail squarely on the head. A good skill by the way. If you can’t fix it, you’re SOL. Hope you can trade with someone who can.

      • skeptic

        I absolutely agree. Spent my life working with tools, not always that talented. Have managed to get it done. We should get to a point where it is almost an insult to have to call a repairmen to fix it. Same with food. Canned by others will dry up quickly. A bunch of us here would like to see more contributions of practical input.

        • REB

          Thanks to all of you for your thoughts… we know what the problems are and whilst its fine to discuss and debate various thoughts and ideas I really think we need viable solutions right down here where most of us live…things thatll put food on the table and make life a bit more tolerable…and since we personally have to be the answer for our own situations it stands to reason that each of us have got to have the ability/knowledge/info to make that happen for ourselves and our families first…then the benefit of that can spill over into the people around us who need it…and there will be a lot of them who wont know how because of ignorance or apathy and with some ability you will be able to make a living on the side…food/fiber/repairing stuff/blacksmithing/metal working…the list is endless so are the opportunities… thanks!

    25. ready down under

      Two days away without food, or even the threat of it, and anarchy will overwhelm as the masses become crazed looters, theives – even murderers.

      It’s just around the next bend guys – may take a while to get there, may not. Thats what ramps up the anxiety level, not knowing when or exactly what. We here in Aussie are getting more bad news every day. We have a new government but the real damage was done by the one that was recently kicked out after 6 years of stupidity.

      An economic meltdown is the most likely scenario, inevitable actually, but we could just as easily get blindsided by something else – WW3, pandemic or EMP. Those scenarios will be global. Natural disasters are a worry but generally are just localised and while SHTF events for those impacted have little effect on those outside the zones.

      Just prep to be as self sufficient and self reliant as possible and never forget to take precautions to be able to defend yourselves and your families.


      • gone under

        Google: Britain food shortage… The PM stated that they are 3 days away from a food shortage. I read somewhere they have a electricity power shortage too.

        • lonelonmum

          Our East coast is recovering from a major storm last weekend so yes we have some minor issues.

          The UK is only 25% self-sufficient for food, and we are run by inbred ijeets who insist it’s impossible to control immigration on an Island where noone swims across! Thus our population hit an unsustainable level quite some time ago. the lessons of WW2 and rationing have not reached our dear leaders as yet.

          Don’t be fooled though, everywhere that depends on just in time delivery systems is only 3 days away from a local food shortage. Our PM is just admitting the blindingly obvious. Americans, away from the agricultural regions are no better off.

          • ready down under

            No different here lonelonmum!!


        • REB

          And the shame of it is how once England and its neighbors have done everything possible to discourage the small landholder(farmer/homesteader)and the production of foodstuffs on a local self sustaining level…divesting our people of their ability to feed themselves and making them depend on govicorp…all the makings of a plan for servitude…self reliance is the way out of this trap…

      • maddog

        Aussie, what’s really scary is now I know that your country is as fucked as ours. That should show everyone that the S is going HTF soon and it will not be avoidable. This is why I keep saying prepare for a “reset”. I know that the fix that will be presented by the PTB will not be in the people’s best interest and their are many people that will not except their bullshit. How do I know? I’m one of them. This time we can not allow any commie, socialist to live as in the last war only to do this shit again under a new name. Sorry if it sounds harsh, but they murdered over 200,000,000 last century, I’m not about to do that again.

    26. .02

      Out of all the bad things that can happen if/when tshtf what I fear most in cannibals. The Road basement scene totally creeped me out. If people start eating each other, and they will as they have in the past, how do you know not to shoot everybody?

      • Mountain Trekker

        .02 did you hear the one about the cannibal, he past his brother in the woods! Trekker Out.

        • .02


      • maudy fricket

        I hope somebody eats Maudy.

      • Sigi

        Look up famines in the past. Cannibalism was reported, but not widespread. I think there is just an unwillingness in most people to go that far. People find other things to eat- even earthworms, slugs, bugs, grass, and dirt.

      • Smokey

        Big cooking pots and discussions about ‘long pigs’ will be a giveaway.

    27. lonelonmum

      off topic:-

      I found an interesting article that states we’ve only heard 1% of Snowden’s intended revelations:-

      However this is not from a source I recognise so I am unsure who to verify it as being accurate. If true then it is deeply concerning as the info Snowden has managed to get into the public domain was very important.

      I know there are many on this site with far superior research skills to my own, and would humbly request your help in assessing the information of the above link. At this stage of the game I do not feel we have the time left to go chasing butterflies or wasted on irrelevant tangents, yet as you all know all info has to be sifted/tested & verified.

      • ready down under

        Hey lonelonmum – Snowdens leaks really dropped us in it with Indonesia! Of course we monitor comms from our neighbours, everyone does – our mistake was passing the info along to the US who let Snowden get hold of it.

        Our latest info from MSM is that Snowden has over 20,000 files he can still release. So far just the tip of the iceberg. TPTB deserve the embarrassment this is binging down on their heads!


        • sixpack

          That’s 200,000, as in two hundred thousand documents.

          My question is, WHY is is okay to spy on supposed friends and allies? “Everyone does it”, so if everyone jumps off a building, we should all follow suit?

          Calling someone a “friend” or “ally” means there should be some TRUST between the two—and you can’t TRUST someone that spies on you, and you don’t demonstrate trust if feel the need to spy on them.

          Thus, the idea of having “allies” is all a farce, just rhetoric to try to justify breaching the sovereignty and security of another country. SPYING IS WRONG, and while it started out being acceptable to only spy on ENEMIES, it is now being justified against FRIENDS as well.

          Give the govt an inch and it will take a continent.

      • JustMe

        The Snowden case is interesting. Is he the real deal, a true hero? Or is he a managed plant? He has released some really embarassing stuff to tptb.

        But, notice who he has mentioned, and who he has not…
        There a couple good articles on Veterans Today about Snowden. But, he has released some really good stuff through RT.

        • Eyesopenanddisgusted

          I can’t believe people are buying into “SNOWDEN” shit is so made up. Oh and donate to the cause, Snowden & Assange are creations of the CIA, to get info on the supporters of anti-government.

        • sixpack

          We have to stop allowing the govt machine from instilling fear and doubt into our minds. The try to destroy everything they don’t like, especially the truth.

          DO NOT BUY INTO THE GOVT RHETORIC. Liars can’t convince me anything is true…even it if might be. I believe NOTHING, not a thing the U.S. govt says about anything. Period.

      • braveheart

        Lonelonmum, the website you linked to belongs to Sybil Edmonds, a former FBI translator and whistleblower. she is a reliable source.

        • lonelonmum

          Thanks Braveheart.

          If that’s the case then the controlled opposition now have full control of the remaining info and another battle has just been lost.

    28. The Old Coach

      That’s a good timeline of how Europe dissolved in 1914, except that I don’t think either the leaders or the populace were in fear of doom. Europeans still had the idea that war itself was a civilized activity in the 19th century, fought as necessary to advance national interests. The Napoleonic wars, long as they were, did not really affect the common people all that much, by comparison with earlier wars. It was so civilized that France and England issued safe-conducts for scientists and literary types to visit each others’ capitals for professional meetings. The war that the older people actually remembered in 1914 was the Franco-Prussian, and it hadn’t devolved into the maelstrom that WW1 became. As the troops marched out in August 1914, they all said “Home by Christmas”. Some battles would be fought according to the old rules, power would shift one way or the other, and a new order would emerge without more than a few tens of thousands of casualties. But technology (and a misperception by the Germans at the Marne), blindsided them, and they got the Grand Stalemate. Neither side knew what to do with that, except to keep grinding away. We know the ending.

      I do not, however, disagree with the idea that a modern day SHTF situation will be fear-driven. Modern urban and suburban populations have no clue about the logistics that support them. They might be said to be living in a Garden of Eden. If the logistics chains break down, they will have no understanding beyond immediate need, and lacking any strategic or even tactical vision, they will be terrified mobs.

      A book which is very enlightening on the European mentality before and after WW1 is “Goodbye to All That”, by Robert Graves. He was there.

      • The Old Coach

        Meant to write “in comparison with later wars”

        Another long read in pre-WW1 is “Dreadnought” by Robert Massie.

      • .02

        Coach, logistics chain break down of the JIT inventory system from any number of calamities is probably the most likely scenario of mad max mayhem IMO. I read a book or blog or post or something someplace (full of mind garbage cant remember) from an expert in the logistics field that if the system breaks, it will remain broken. Too many loose threads to tie back together after the collapse. I dunno, seemed to make a lot of sense to me at the time.

        • The Old Coach

          I’d agree wholeheartedly, from my 28 years experience in manufacturing. The tiniest breakdown in a spare parts supply chain can stop a whole auto engine factory dead. I had it happen. The part was worth maybe ten dollars, but it was unique. Manufacturer out of business, no more in the pipeline, no substitute. We replaced complete machines, at about a quarter million each! Even the Space Shuttle ran into this – in the last few years they had to scrounge parts for the flight computers on evilBay because nobody had the tools or even the knowledge to make new ones.

          And that’s with a fully functioning economy! Multiply those examples by a million, and that’s what a nationwide SHTF event would be. Which is why my most treasured book is an encyclopedia of technology, dated 1889. Technology that needs much shorter and much simpler supply chains. It might just be possible to stop the slide at that level, if the knowledge is preserved.

          BTW there’s a great essay by Bill Whittle, still somewhere on the Innertubes I’m sure, called “The Web of Trust”.

      • JustMe

        Those look like interesting books, thank you.

    29. Ted Kennedy

      Show me a theater on fire on a cruise boat with two exit doors and I’ll show you civilized.

      • PO'd Patriot

        Show me a married man and his lover in a car going off a bridge in deep water with only the man
        surviving……aaaaaannnnnd you WON’T see civilized.

    30. Be informed

      @ gone under. Most of the people here I will never met, but every single time I hear of anyone, such as yourself, adding to their own personal supply stockpile it makes me feel really good inside. It makes me feel like there is still some hope out there for humanity.

      I have been whacked out since something strange happened today. Sometimes when I don’t know what to do I will flip a coin and say if heads comes up this is the right course of action, or tails. Sometimes a simply yes or no answer is assigned to the heads or tails. The freaken fat nickel landed on its side, upright. I have been flipping coins all my life and never has it landed on its side and stayed up. This is almost impossible with a thin dime, but even a fatter of a side nickel this is extremely unlikely. It was a 1964 nickel that has a wider side to it than most nickels. I don’t know what this means as the question I asked was not important when I flipped the coin. I myself have been very unbalanced since that coin landed this way. Kind of like that old Twilight Zone with Dick York did this in that episode. Every since I saw that old Twilight Zone I have never had any coin land on its edge like that until today. Weird isn’t it?

      • JustMe

        Go get a Powerball ticket 🙂

        • Be informed

          @ JustMe. Have a mega millions ticket. I am not sure if this is bad luck or good luck or just some fluke. I have the nickel sitting on its side right now below the computer screen, as the slighest vibration sends it down. I still can’t believe on a 1/5 of a centimeter or 2 mm, about 1/16 of an inch edge that after flipping it in the air that it could flip over and land and stay on that edge. Anyone could try this and I doubt anyone else could have this happen unless they flipped a nickel tens of thousands of times. This is what has me sort of unglued as I tend to have a slight to moderate superstition streak in me.

          • Thinker

            BI; I have one of those streaks as well maybe thats why i always catch mine and if i miss it and it lands on tails i never pick it up! Yes i am the one that leaves those coins with the tail showing on the ground!!
            Maybe that coin is telling you you have a fifty fifty chance on that lottery ?

            • Genius

              Hey Thinker, are you in SG or CC by chance?

              • Thinker

                Genius; In between! You?

                • Genius

                  The northern of the 2, good to know there are some smart people around these parts lol. Maybe we will run into eachother sometime. Dam Im getting tired of this cold and snow, supposed to be warmin up though 🙂

                • Thinker

                  Genius;Me too !! You gotta Thank Geo Engineering for this, I moved here 30 years ago to get out of it! You ever heard of 6 in.of snow and 8 Deg. in STG ??

                • Genius

                  No kiddin Thinker! In my neck of the woods we had -21 for 2 days in a row and 14 inches of snow! Every day this week has been around -10 and high about 22. I have never seen this around here in december. We are in the coldest area here in the bowl to the west. Always colder than what the weather site says but then its hotter in summer too lol. Maybe if the snow ever softens up I will make an igloo for the chickens 🙂

          • JustMe

            Could be some kind of sign, perhaps. Take a breather, relax, meditate/pray for a bit. A message may be waiting.

            • VanMom

              Two out of three?

          • .02

            Answer me this: I woke up one morning a few years ago with pat benatar’s hell is for children song stuck in my head. Had coffee, breakfast, etc with hell is for children playing in my mind. Went to the car to head for work, clicked over the key and with hell is for children playing in my head the radio matched it perfect to the word as my wife left the radio playing when she shut off the car. This is before I even turned the car over, Pat Benatar is screaming Hell is for children EXACTLY as I was mumbling it.. I tell you, the hair stuck straight out on the back of my neck and I had a really sick feeling crawling through my guts. Getting chills right now typing this.

        • Smokey

          Don’t bother with the Powerball ticket, the coin toss was what you got, instead.

          If you had just bought the ticket instead of flipping a silly nickel around…

      • Paranoid

        Just shows ya you can’t get much with a nickel these days.

    31. Be informed

      Well TSA is sure “on the job”. They confiscated a toy monkey’s sidearm, a TOY gun not even the size of three quarters from one end to another. “Just think that could have been used by terrorist to take down a plane”. People have truly hit stupid head on at full speed ahead.

      • JustMe


      • .02

        How about the poor little kid expelled for making a finger like a gun in school and pointing at kids. Or the 7 yo that chewed a poptart into a gun shape and got suspended. No doubt about it we have gone full retard.

    32. Old Vet

      In this day and age when the bottom falls out from under the not prepare, cavemen will look civilized to the people of today. Thirst and hunger will take people back to primal instincts real quick. Only the strong will survive, it will be root hog or die. Most will die from lack of water. If you can hold out for 60 to 90 days (out of site) most will be dead by then, and then deal with the rest. Not one thing will stand in the way of survival; there will be no talking to them only force will detour them from stealing (putting it mildly) from what is yours. If you think not; put yourselves in their shoes and what would you be doing to survive. Get the mindset that more than likely you very well will have to kill to protect you and yours at some point in time after the collapse. If you don’t think you have it in you to use deadly force, basic instincts will take over. Just prepare for what is coming. Remember you cannot prepare enough!

      It is your life— make it count!

    33. ready down under

      Hey BI – when history is reviewed in a century or two they’ll also be wondering how the impossible happened!!!

      Take care Old Mate, I enjoy your writings.


    34. maudy fricket

      I grew up in the inner city of Chicago in the 1950’s. Our neighborhood had lots of refugees from Eastern Europe. It was common to see old women in “babushkas” eat from the garbage cans. People in some places in Europe were starving at the end of WW2. Some were lucky enough to get out, but old survival habits die hard.

      • Shooter

        Good point maudy! I have eaten out of the garbage before too. When you get hungry enough u will eat just about anything. Bugs can be eaten too.

    35. ready down under

      Meant to say, “be wondering, “””like a nickel landing on its side””” how the impossible happened”


      • Thinker

        Talking about weird? Where is smokin okie? I just read an article that satinists want to put a statue next to the Ten Commandments in the State Capital in Oklahoma!! WTF? and Miliey Vyrus up for The Times woman of the Year? I guess now we know who the evil will replace God in schools with??
        Oh the article is on the Gaurdian.

        • JustMe

          And flags are at half-staff for an African terrorist…

          • Christopher Edwards

            And a Muslim, America hating, Constitution destroying, lying, Kenyan Citizen is occupying the WH. Time for action!

            • Facebook Page

              Action well get it started right behind you.

          • Tactical

            JustMe….You won’t hear this on the media in the US but look for it on Russia Today TV site. Whites in South Africa are simply in a grave danger of genocide. It is not the matter of if rather is when. When this happens I bet the half-staff changes to full-staff in honor of savages.

            • JustMe

              Agreed. They are on the official “Genocide Watch”.

              The ANC have already stated they are ready to begin.

              White Genocide is their goal, not just in Africa.

              • Smokey

                6 million whites and 25 million blacks. Blood bath in the making.

          • gone under

            And no one showed up for M. Thatcher’s funeral. What a fucking low down scumbag disgrace.

            • JustMe

              “I would have preffered Iron, but bronze will do.”- Margeret Thacther (when they unveiled her statue, since she was known as The Iron Lady)

            • Smokey

              LBJ didn’t bother to show up for Winston Churchill’s funeral, either.

              The pathology of the left is astounding.

        • Be informed

          @ Thinker. Lucifer next to the Ten Commandments and Miley siren as woman of the year?????? “Wonderful”. This is the decay of the masses to gravitate towards this. You see that weirdo lady gulp gulp trying to get into Sesame Street and Kermit the Frog, right after she gives alliance to her master the devil and drinking blood on stage like some gothic whore. Lady gulp gulp is not satisfied with poisoning teenagers’ minds, she is trying to get to the really young kids also. Again the parents are not showing their children that this is evil, no other word than evil.

          Miley siren has a father that has influenced here a lot. She was an okay kid when she was hanah montana, but having a father that drinks whiskey and vodka like water morning until pass out in the evening really has wrecked her life. He only wants what his daughter can dish out for more money and a complete collection of all the liquor from around the world to sample in bulk until his liver finally gives out. Sex sells, and miley siren has mastered this to an audience to blind to even see what is happening.

          I totally believe in the First Amendment and censorship is not the answer to this crap. It is the responsibility of the parents and guardians to show young people what is right and wrong, and what is good and evil. Also should be what is hypocritical and what is not. If it is okay for someone to erect a devil statue next to something God, then it should also be okay to erect a statue of helicopter ben with the pants down and everything giving the whole country a full moon. Exploding the debt to where it is deserves nothing less than such a statue to symbolize the economic well being of everyone with this ass high idea that printing more and more money is the answer to every economic woe.

          I could never match Smokie Okie in wit and humor, as I take life way too seriously but I can laugh about just how pathetic times have become. People actually support these idiots like some star struck idols. People continue to “think” that BO is the second coming no matter how rear ended their financial state becomes. Plenty of material for South Park that’s for sure.

          • Thinker

            BI; You know i am not so sure that the majority of the people think of BO as the second coming or if they really are becoming satinets and look to him as Lucifer!! Either way it not going to end well!!
            Thanks BI for your wit and wisdom!!

            • JustMe

              They are now promoting obummer as a messiah, in Common Core “educational materials”…

              • Thinker

                Just me; You are freaking shitting me right????

                • JustMe

                  No. They are promoting obummer hard

                  “Barack Obama: Son of Promise, Child of Hope,” by Nikki Grimes, paints obummer in a “Messianic” light…

                  Coming to a school near you…

                • Smokey

                  No, he’s not. Obama is a lesson plan, the kids are supposed to write and talk about how wonderful he is, for a grade.

                • ready down under

                  I remember so well the hysteria, even over here, when this guy mesmerised so many with his “hope and change? Yes, we can!!” rhetoric. I also remember the feelgood rantings, even before OBumbler was sworn in, from the celebrities from Hollyweird who were so beside themselves with rapture they were talking about how it would be necessary to change the Constitution so “He” (referring to him like he was God!!) could have a 3rd term as two werent enought to implement the necessary changes and “save the Country”. True, they were saying this even before the bum was sworn in for his first term! None so blind as they who will not see is there??


    36. Bigben

      I see very little prepping information. Been reading for well over a year now. Would like to see more along the lines of how to’s and how much.


      • Be informed

        @ BigBen. I wrote something about a year and a half ago on this site that might be helpful.

        How much? Aim high, as after the collapse other than what someone can scrounge around for, most of what we need will be gone. Think about what you use everyday, every week and try to obtain at least a couple of each items to what you use seldom or rarely and more of what you use often. Think of it like you are going shopping for a very extended camping trip somewhere. Everything and the kitchen sink. What you can reasonably afford.

        You can’t lose with the cost of food and everything else going up, including the downsizing of how much products you get for your money. That can of food might cost $1.59 today and be $3.00 or more a year from now. That is earning money on tangible goods that are not taxed, and something that you can use and will likely use someday anytime you need it. Not too many stocks can earn what value food and other supplies have in the future.

        How to? Mac’s favorite sites and his links offer massive information on this. There are also some good previous articles on this site.

        • Bigben

          Very good article, what I need. Thanks for the link. Some of the thing I’m ok with. Others I need to concentrate on. Do a small garden, beans, corn, peas, tomatos, etc. Have plenty of protection, if you can ever have enough. Biggest need is a large supply of water. Live in town in area of about 80,000. Do seed saving on heirloom seeds and stay away from hybrids as much as possible.
          thanks, Bigben

      • Facebook Page

        Because this is not a prepping site. This a who to blame site and when it will happen.

    37. Nopittypartyhere

      Completely off topic, but I need some insight…my dad has a 75 ft well. Filter just changed 6 months ago. Water started smelling really bad. We changed filter. It looked like it had leaves and twigs in it. There is an artesian well/spring about 200 yds out on property. Thoughts, comments, ideas? The water gets disgusting when this happens and if well is 75ft deep makes no sense to me.

      • JustMe

        Do you have gas well fracking anywhere nearby? Another thing to consider is faultline shifts, these affect the water table also.

      • Thinker

        NPPH.Its probably contamination ,rodents,snakes bugs are seepage from an adjacent aquifer could be from the artisan . Better have it tested to find out? Why did you drill a well when you have a artisan well/nat.spring??

        • Nopittypartyhere

          Dad drilled the well 7 years ago. Wanted the well near the house. We’re supposedly on the same aquifer that feeds Williamson springs bottled water, but the waters been funky for just over a year now.

      • Kulafarmer

        Better test it, might not be safe to drink. any septics close by? Floods recently? Maybe sediment in the shaft, pull the pump up?

      • Be informed

        @ Nopittypartyhere. We have people here that have to drill down to more than 1200 feet in certain parts of the country to get past the “sour” water. Very high mineral count is what is happening here, maybe your father is having the same problem. Water tables change a lot due to rainfall or lack of it and well water drawdown from neighbors. Might have to go deeper like here. There are places here that wells go very shallow, less than 25 feet and the water is pretty good. Hit and miss in so many locations. Water always takes the path of least resistance. If you take away the 75 feet of sediment you could see where the water is coming to the well’s location and what is causing this. Soil maps and geological maps are a good place to start with this in his area.

        If your father is getting sulphur or other indications around a tectonic fault zone that is something to worry about. Before volcanic eruptions and very large earthquakes well water changes are common. Bad smells in well water can be changes in the strata below indicating future movements. Areas around Mt. St. Helens had this occur before it went off more than 30 years ago. Before large earthquakes in China well water stench is quite common. Hopefully he doesn’t have to drill down deeper, this has become quite expensive to do so.

      • RickInOregon

        @Nopittypartyhere, it sounds like the well needs to be serviced. There should be a fine slotted casing around the foot valve or submersible pump that allows only water in and not debris. Around the casing should be pea gravel to keep the casing from getting plugged up.

        The smell, if sulfur like is mineral rich hard water. We lived on some bottom land once with hard water and the water would smell during certain times of the year. Indicators of hard water besides the smell is your white clothing will start to turn yellow, the shower, tub, sink and toilet will get stained.

        If it’s something new then like others have said, have the water tested (is a good thing to do periodically anyways)

        The smell of hard water will dissipate if allowed to sit, high water usage doesn’t give enough time for the water to breathe.

      • gone under

        @ No Pity… I wrote this reply with the trouble shooting steps backwards. Do the easy stuff first….If it is a “rotten egg” smell, then that is hydrogen sulfide. Might be caused by iron bacteria or organic material getting in the water table/well. You need to make sure the well is sealed properly. Check the well cap on top of the casing for openings. If there is no slab around the casing, dig around it 3-5 feet deep and a couple of feet wide. Buy some betonite pellets or clay and back fill it compacting the soil. You can clorinate the well to kill off the iron bacteria(if thats the problem). Let the cl2 mixture (about 1 gallon clorox with 4 gallons water in a five gallon bucket dumped down the well through the 1/2 inch plug on the well cap) set overnight in the well, then run the pump for a few hours until the clorine smell is bearable. Remember, clorine is hard on copper piping, so try to flush the majority out onto the ground(make sure no enviroweeners see you do this). If the smell goes away for a while, then comes back, you may have to install a large filter with activated charcoal and possibly a cl2(clorine. I just use clorox)pump and tank unit. Sears sell both and the price WAS about 700$ for the pair including the filter. Also, First check out the artesian well to see if there is any dead animals in it, cows pooping near by, excessive vegetation and alge, and a identical smell. If the pump cycles more than usual and your pressure is slightly lower, you may have a water leak underground and picking up material.

        • gone under

          I have a Grade 2 water treatment, grade 2 water distribution, and grade 1 waste water treatment state license. There is a member here that posts sometimes, I think his name is waterforlife. He seems to be real knowlegable and still in the business, as I havent been for a couple of years now.

      • REB

        any chance debris is getting in around the top or around the casing such as with heavy runoff or….any chance this water level has been infiltrated by a creek/spring/swamp or surface water source that then goes back underground and is in the layer your well is in?

        • Nopittypartyhere

          About 1/4 mile from house, he has 50 acres, there is a stream that has THE BEST water. It is probably 75 -100 foot lower elevation than house well. This stream emerges from a small “bog”, the artesian well/spring is closer to the house. My guess is the contamination was coming possibly from the bog. I havent ridden the 4 wheeler over to check it out yet. I’m going deer hunting in the morning, so ill check it on the way home.

          Dad needs some ammo stores….hmmmmmm ….I’ll have to lock it up where he can’t get it though.

      • Nopittypartyhere

        Thanks for ALL of the replies. His well head doesn’t look anything like mine (which has 6″ casing, etc). His well IS <50 feet from SEPTIC….uhhhh YUCK didn't think about that. He is in central MS. Not sure how far New Madrid fault line is. I wanted to check to see if debris was washing, in, but like I said, his well head setup and holding take looks nothing like mine. I have definitely considered testing. Since filter was changed, smell is markedly improved. Only get a faint scent from hot water, none from cold. Thanks again to all of you. Tis is just one more thing on my 'punch list' while here.

        • REB

          Ive seen where debris in a filter caused a stench because if its actually organic matter and (iron microbes) breaking down the material there a risk of nitrite levels elevating when that happens too…50′ is kinda close but it depends too on the ground structure…sand/gravel vs clay…if its sand /gravel then its too close…Id have it checked for pathogens but if the septics not the problem then Id lean toward the bog…may have to move the well a ways off from the house anyhow but Id go a bit deeper too if it comes to that…suprising how far junk can travel through the ground…even sticks and hay…BTW any reason hes not tapped into that artisan well/spring?…hope you get it worked out!

      • Kulafarmer

        Good read,
        Its funny how the majority of the masses see the correlation between Hunger games and whats going on, or for that matter the eerie similarities of Atlas Shrugged and what we see in government today,,
        For me, Hope has been replaced by anger and defiance, i can see what these so called representatives are doing and can feel first hand their hands choking the life out of us all. Money limits the response, the only hope i have left is the hope that enough wake up and start moving before it is too late,,, or has that time already passed?
        Sound stupid and crazy? Think about life now and life 30 years ago,,, still feel free?

        • Kulafarmer

          The masses DO NOT see the correlation

    38. lonelonmum

      “Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate. Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure.
      It is our light, not our darkness that most frightens us. We ask ourselves, Who am I to be brilliant, gorgeous, talented, and fabulous?
      Actually, who are you not to be?
      You are a child of God.
      Your playing small does not serve the world.
      There is nothing enlightened about shrinking so that other people will not feel insecure around you.
      We are all meant to shine, as children do.
      We were born to make manifest the glory of God that is within us.
      It is not just in some of us; it is in everyone and as we let our own light shine, we unconsciously give others permission to do the same.
      As we are liberated from our own fear, our presence automatically liberates others”

      My son learnt this wonderful piece by Marrianne Williamson when he was 5. I think ALL children should know it by heart, and that all adults should not forget it. I do not prep out of fear, but out of hope, that the generations after me should have the skills, strength and knowledge to survive.

      We now owe it to those that went before us to face our own trial without complaint, instead of cowering and scared of our own shadows.

      Frankly the tptb propaganda machine has got so blatantly obvious & sloppy, and the indoctrination so intense in recent years that I think tptb are running scared.

      A recent study shows that 2/3 of online comments disbelieve the official 9/11 story. (kent uni, UK). Their false flags are being recognised increasingly for what they are by more and more people daily. The emperor has no clothes and we’ve all seen behind the screen of the wizard of Oz. They depend upon our compliance yet globally the masses are increasingly refusing to play along.

      I do think they will topple the economy, but I also think they are grasping at straws if they think that any victory they achieve will be long term or complete. Ultimately they are parasites and the parasite is always dependant upon its host for survival. In the end I think we the people will seal up the air holes to their bunkers built from the stolen fruits of our labours, and go about our business unchallenged.

      I know most of you aren’t keen on reggae but this song resonates. Etana “I am not afraid”
      “I see them coming after my soul, wanting to take control….
      If they a come, let them come, cos I am protected by the most almighty one.”

      We are entering a long dark night, but even if it is not in our own lifetimes, eventually the dawn will come again.

    39. Buzzfix

      Its already F’d up! We already live in a world where people shoot people dead because they looked at them the wrong way. We have people that call 911 because they can’t find the t.v. remote. I don’t know how much worse it can get? We have cannibal inducing synthetic drugs people running around naked eating one another! At this point I honestly think the worse that can happen is our society continues on in its current state of being. Some SHTF would probably do alot of good and shake it up a bit. Bring people out of there comfort zones. They say the worse brings out the best. If that’s what it takes than lets have cataclysmic disasters everyday! 😉 We Need Them

    40. swis

      One thing i never understood was, why the houses in USA are so flimsy? It lasts a few seconds, in a tornado, 4-5 minutes in a fire, and a few hours in a flood. Even preppers have had their houses vanish in a fire. And the other thing, while we were down south in a major city, was the chemical stench. Every thing that you would assume could be real wood, will be particle board. The kitchen counter top was made of that, and coated with fire-retardant soaked paper. There was nothing that could be considered to be made of real stuff, either stone, or wood. Even though the apartment was about a decade old, you go out for half an hour, and come back, it smells like a freshly painted house, the chemical stench was nauseating.
      The best thing about this, was that the apartment was next to the “medical center” where a reputed hospital was “making cancer history”. It is almost like the people in the region were laying the foundations of a unhealthy life, that would lead to cancer or other illnesses.
      For people with allergies, and chemical sensitivities, these risks are more important than the big picture collapses, that are probably years away.

      • Smokey

        Not all houses are flimsy. Most are, though.

        We let builders buy up lots and build houses on speculation, then we buy the house they built.

        We should buy our own lot, and have the house built ourselves. Quality would improve for much of it, I believe.

        The cost difference between a house that lasts for 50 years and one that will last for 200 years, even a simple frame house, is about $25,000. That gets you bigger dimensional lumber, plywood and not mushboard, seismic upgrades, proper framing connections, better windows and doors, proper insulation, wood floors, etc.

    41. Ted Kennedy

      Time to go long on five Au mining lots for a ten bagger during a spring taper… GG is my top pic

    42. David

      What utter rubbish the mere implication that the Germans started the war, just like they supposedly started the second as well. Hogwash. What should have been a regional more or less gentlemen’s war in both cases were turned into world wars by the Brits and French (and Americans) who work on behalf of International Joory. The Germans AND the Russians have suffered the most because of Jewish intrigue. I’d mention China, but I don’t give a damn about China. They also under Mao and his joo handlers murdered 80 million of their own, and our Allied governments put him in power knowing full well what a devil he was. This after supposedly saving China from the Japanese!!!! The problem with mainstream history is that it covers up truth more than enlightens. I am spelling it Joo as there are moderating computers loking for key words and the real word will probably stop this post from going up. Think about THAT people, why are there sites out there that publish opinion pieces and then stop YOU from saying what’s on your mind? Why do they expunge the word Joo in all forums?

    43. Eagle Eye

      Civilisation: mankind’s continued effort to remove itself from the effects of nature.

      Ready Down under, did you catch the Chinese Ambassador telling the human hairdo off the other day? Diplomacy be buggered. The issue over those islands south of Japan could be the trigger.

      • ready down under

        Eagle Eye – sure did. It’s a serious hotspot. China has enormous financial muscle these days – accumulating 1,000 tons (not a misprint!!) of gold a month!! Now they are starting to flex expansionist muscle coz they can detect blood in the water. They want those islands. They want Taiwan. And they intend to get them. The Chinese are very patient – while countries like the US, UK and Aussie have no plans past the next election, the Chinese are planning generations ahead.

        The US has given guarantees to both Taiwan and Japan. When China is strong enough, both militarily and financially they WILL move.

        Only a fool picks a fight with someone who is going to kick the snot outta them – and the Chinese are no fools!!

        They have long memories (about 12 million Chinese civilians were killed in WW2 and “The Rape of Nanking” is still deeply resented.

        They have scores to settle.


    44. Mike in VA

      ” People are to civilized and reasonable ”

      Whoever said that must live in a hole. Anyone who has been around others knows this is not true. Society has declined since the people have become indoctrinated by the education system. People have forgotten how to communicate with others with the advancement of technology.
      People have lost all morals when god was removed from our society. People care only about themselves. They no longer know or help there neighbor’s. Parents condone and make excuses for children misbehaving. There are single parents everywhere. People believe they deserve a pay check with little work. People believe others owe them. Foul language has become rampant even around ladies and children. Homosexuality is excepted and promoted. Alcohol and drug abuse is rampant as well. Killing unborn children is the law of the land. Honesty has disappeared it seems. There are robberies, beatings, rapes, scams, and murders in our own communities.

      I so wish we could go back to the days when we were uncivilized and unreasonable.

      All this and the major storm that is coming has not even hit yet.

    45. watching and waiting


      Do not stop prepping

      Regardless if society does collapse from an economic disaster…..people are not thinking about the massive earth changes that are coming on the earth.

      i am quite sure in 1929 there were incidents where civility
      went out the window…….In 2014 we have a population that is armed and willing to use those weapons, whether for good or bad………

    46. wncmountainboy

      Do the rest of you feel like a total alien at times the way I do? This morning the Mandela lovefest is everywhere and it seems the whole world operates in a false sense of reality. reminds me of a quote I heard once…”Truth is rare and tends to be costly.”
      As for an earlier post: We live in suburbia right up against a major interstate(literally just 1/4 mile away), when it happens we’re bugging out for a while.

      • JayJay

        mountainboy, your situation reminds me of ‘One Second After’. I believe the subject’s home was near the interstate in the mountains.

        • Anonymous

          yep…Dr. Forschten(author) lives in Montreat, just outside Asheville up against I-40. I’m to the south of Asheville up against I-26. The storyline was based here. Dr.Forschten has also been in the forefront of warning the gubment about emp attacks.

          One thing I have mentioned in the past on SHTF is the huge volume of military aircraft that uses our mountain airport for training. The volume of activity has exponentially increased over the past 3-4 years. Not fighter jet touch-n-go’s but Troop carriers i.e. Ospreys, Chinooks, and fixed wings.

        • ready down under

          Get the book “One Second After” and read it!! Then read it again!! I did – then I read it a 3rd time with a pen and notepad handy. Then I lent it to friends I thought would benefit from it. They did – turned ’em into preppers. One couple are even trying to convince me to be a prepper now – havent told ’em yet I am light years ahead of them ……. OPSEC!!


    47. VRF

      U.S. Representative Alan Grayson, a Florida Democrat, lost about $18 million in a scheme involving a Reston, Virginia-based firm that loaned customers funds in exchange for securities posted as collateral, his office said on Monday.

      Ok whats wrong with this entire story?
      is it the “scheme”…nahhh we expect that level of corruption from our elite..( sarc)

      is it because hes dealing in something kinda fishy?..nahh that aint it either

      Its the fact that a Congressman HAS 18 MILLION to Lose to begin with!

    48. Earthman

      Let god and the lords mercy be upon us as we go through these changes,LOVE EACH AND EVERYONE OF YOU GUYS.Sorry my heart is broken to see this happening and I know I have to be strong and fight,but it just tears my heart from my chest to see us go through something we dont have to.Prepare for ISON that is my concern to the dream that I saw back about 4 years ago,the lord and father are telling me to prepare for this event that must happen in order to be free again and to have a paradise.These dreams are real to me,I have never felt this way I do right now in fear of an object massive size hitting the earth to come soon I can feel it as it is getting closer.Yes war will come after this event and that is my second concern.I believe that war is going to take place before and after this astroud hits the earth, in my dreams they are massive size rocks that will rock the nation with huge earthqaukes and valcanoes and the ocean waters to be like the days of Noah to come.So someone please hear the words of the message from the father and the son, because I have seen the dreams of what is to come and they want me to tell people to prepare for the day that is to come.NO I AM NOT A CRAZY LOON,I had an outer body episode witch changed me to repent my life to him for showing me this dream to prepare for the worst and come out for the best.He is telling me time is short and his second coming will be soon.He will not save us all for he has no control of that,what must be will be and faith is our only chance at this.GOD BLESS YOU ALL and prepare for this to happen for we are running out of time and I am worried.

      • PuppyPrepper

        ISON is long gone.

        Jesus Christ controls history.

        He knows about/cares about/can effect every tiny detail of every believers’ life.

        Prep, grow spiritually, be ready for whatever He has planned for your life.

        There is nothing to be afraid of.

    49. Harrison Bergeron

      After the devastation and humiliation of WWI, Germany was primed and ready for Hitler. I really believe the stage is being set for the world’s worse and final dictator…

      There will be more and more conflict, Gog-Magog stuff is probably not far off and global economic collapse and chaos with it. (Keep an eye on the Russian-Iranian relationship – they will move against Israel.)

      And at some point, the pattern will repeat…

      “And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?”

      Better be spiritually prepped.

    50. VRF

      If you like your constitution.. you can keep it.

    51. Barn Cat

      I don’t see the connection. Counties all went to war. Just like the Civil War, people thought the war would be over before they knew it.

      On a personal level, American and European societies were much more civilized then than they are today. We live in a post-Christian era where ever increasing segments of the black population is violent and dangerous. The current generation of young white people is the most godless in our history. Most of them cohabit. They have illegitimate children. They don’t believe in moral absolutes. They believe in legalizing marijuana and they favor homosexual marriage. They’ve also been indoctrinated into being economic marxists.

      • lonelonmum

        Barn cat

        Victorian England
        The working classes didn’t bother too much with the institution of marriage.
        masters regularly impregated their serrving girls
        syphillis was rampant
        child prostitution rates would horrify us now
        grave robbers

        prewar berlin and vienna
        madesoddom & gomorah look conservative

        ask an Inidian whose family were genocided under Grant how civilised he felt America was then?

        cannabis and opiates were perfectly legal until last century

        cities have always been pits of vice. there are just more of them & they grow larger every year

        switch of the tv, avoid undesirables and you’ll feel much better.

    52. Barn Cat

      This is what the Bible says about how people will behave in a famine:

      (Deu 28:54 NIV) Even the most gentle and sensitive man among you will have no compassion on his own brother or the wife he loves or his surviving children,

    53. Charlotte D.

      The best way to avoid the problem of civil unrest in a situation as stated above, is to have an adequate storage and a place to hunker down for as long as possible. One of the best solutions out there is to have a bunker. A bunker can protect against a wide range of threats including civil unrest. The right bunker can provide with a discrete safe place to maintain an “off the grid” comfortable lifestyle to avoid the violence of civil unrest. With a wide range of imminent threats, a bunker is the best defense available today. There are numerous options available on the market, however serious consumers tend to lean towards Rising S Company (based on advanced technology, confidentiality, quality, efficiency and economical influence).

      • HisArmsWide

        The major problem with bunkers is, once they’re found they’re easily circumnavigated. Blocking the vent system or just pouring a mixture of bleach and ammonia down it or in a bucket in front of it, or setting bonfires at them to suck the oxygen out or just flood the building with smoke, the options to get someone out of a bunker are myriad. They’re non-defensible, if you’re forced to retreat into one of these and you don’t have immediate outside forces who can engage your opponents you’ve lost and are dead or worse.

        To remain potent on a battlefield you have to remain mobile and able to react and engage and disengage. Stuck in a metal shell with one way in and just as importantly, one way out equals death.

    54. maudy fricket

      If there was any doubt about the Marxist take over of the US, just watch all news channels, including the fake conservatives at FOX, all adoring the communist/terrorist Mandela. All living Presidents of the US, including fake conservative, GW Bush, are going to honor Mandela. (exclude old man Bush). If you don’t understand the extent of the take over, just look. The only thing left is the total consolidation for the commies by the Eric Holder, Justice Dept. If you still have doubts, you are lost.

    55. KY Mom

      China military holds war games near N Korean border…

      Japanese Media Fears War Next Year…

      Drudge Report

    56. slingshot

      “Drink More Moonshine”. Or how to prepare for a Social Collapse.
      Just getting back from some “Woods Therapy”. I see Braveheart is back but Smokin Okie is still MIA. He is out there, somewhere. He will be back.
      The past couple of weeks I have been hunting by myself. A few days here and there and I find it most enjoyable. Don’t stay up as late and get up REAL EARLY.
      No radio, only a cell phone to let the wife know I am fine and alive. You can think over plenty of subjects without interruption. Although I do have canned provisions at camp, it still comes down that you have to do for yourself. You don’t cook, you don’t eat. You don’t chop wood, you have no campfire to keep warm. I did contemplate what type of setup JOG has at his outpost and how it is working for him. I thought of Kulafarmer with his farm. Any hunter who has put in a food plot will know how fast the sprouts are eaten by the wildlife.
      Imagine trying to keep a garden in the woods. There is plenty of cattails and swamp cabbage. Turkey is abundant. The usual run of deer, squirrel and hog. How fast their populations would decrease as poachers arrive.
      For myself I thought of if I was injured like falling out of the tree stand or bitten by a coral snake. Or maybe mauled by a bear. Charged by a wild bore hog Serious stuff! One simple or stupid mistake can do you in.
      A friend on mine gave a Mason Jar of shine for some work I helped him with a couple of weeks ago. Thus the main ingredient to this post. Oh, so smooooth. ;0)

      • MongoPissed

        I just found a source of malted corn out here in the Southern Sierra. I have been recording Moonshiners, in prep for building a still. My maternal grandpa was a ‘shiner. My mom wrote a poem about him: “Our father, who art in jail, for making moonshine by the pail”. Any input on making mash appreciated. My grandpa’s handwritten recipe says “silage”.

      • VRF

        you had me at the first 3 words

      • ready down under

        Yeah braveheart, where ya been Old Mate – missed ya!!


    57. gatheringbird

      When I started reading this site a couple of years ago I got real nervous about the possabilities of a collapse. So I sold my stocks and bought silver coins at 32.00 an ounce. And I started buying food ammo and whatever else preppers buy, and I kept reading and reading and buying and reading and buying. So todsy the stock market is the highest its ever been, silver is way way down. I have more crap than 10 people will ever use in a lifetime, and still the bullshit keeps coming. I have come to the conclusion that the people on this and other prepper websites are the ones who need to wake up. Because we are all drinking the wrong koolaid.

      • SWFL

        Anything out of balance in life tends to be a problem. But consider; if silver is way down, it still doesn’t cost you anything to keep it. If you have more food than you can eat,start eating it and experimenting with recipes- then share (maybe sell a VD). If you have more “stuff” than you can use then use it till it breaks and evaluate the failure.(Sell a DVD.)
        Sites like this are for information. The thinking is up to you.
        It looks like you have started.

        • SWFL

          maybe sell a DVD. (darn NSA meddlers, why can’t they leave things the way they find them?)

      • Smokey

        You made money on the ammo, that’s for sure.

        The silver is insurance, not investment.

        Don’t buy the hype about imminent doom from anyone, just make sure you will be prepared for big societal changes and upheavals.

    58. Calgacus

      Theres a big population of angry peeps living here. It dont take much to push a person to blow. Just watch how angry adults go off the deep end when the referee gives a game call. Then theres road rage, weve all seen plenty of that. And what about the domestic abuse problem between a man and wife or with a kid?
      With violence playing on the boob tube and the games for kids, our population has been programmed to not only accept violence but react with violence. This shit drives animal behavior and it conditions people to take situations further than there morals would allow them.
      The govt has been pushing people harder since Obama and its all part of the plan to push and push and push until groups of people blow. If they cant beat us down with gun control they come back with racist shit and they do that while they whip us into control with forced insurance.
      Its a plan. Dont be their robot. We can resist with our smarts. We already have our plan and were prepped for down time. Plan around their plans. Get pissed but worry over the big stuff not there small shit. Its time to hold family close and count the blessings. Things will change but those before us have been through worse than most of us have.
      None of us know how thisll all play out and thats okk. We know theres a force coming at us and we see it and feel it. Thats ok too and thats what we plan for. If its a banking collapse, so be it. If its war, its wartime. Whatever comes our way, well be better for prepping for the unknown problem. Know your soul and get good with God and those you love.

      • sixpack

        What that means is, we all need to stuff it down and store it away until the time come to “let ‘er go”. Hell hath no fury, like a man who has had to eat shit for too long already…

    59. VRF

      your AR15 and AK-47 are built to defy government,, that’s why they hate them and want them out lawed..

      Truth, in their face

      • VRF

        they don’t want you to have the ways and means to resist their tyranny

    60. gatheringbird

      More thoughts on this…On every one of these prepper web sites someone has something to sell you, a book on their expertise, some ammo, a gun, freeze dried food, a solar oven, a dvd on how to do things you couldn’t possibly figure out on your own. The list is endless. We are an open market for a new kind of salesman, just look at the products that you have lived without your whole life but you absolutely have to have them before the collapse. Look at the people that have gotten rich off of our fear.
      I think a lot of people come to these websites for a social outlet, and that’s great, but try to at least keep some sanity while you read this stuff and don’t think the world is coming to an end tomorrow because someone posted ANOTHER article about it.

      • slingshot

        Gathering Bird.

        Getting caught in the hype is a terrible situation that many put themselves into. There are things you must take with a grain of salt and the others you must pay closer attention. The degree of acquisition of material by many preppers has been over YEARS. As we can afford to acquire them. Some preppers started out as storm prevention and as the times changed added more preps as they thought needed. Yes there are those who what to sell you all kinds of stuff. As for the silver my opinion is that it has been knock lower in price for those in the know and money can get better deals. Why are other countries acquiring more gold and silver than ever before. The brokers drive up one price, sell at the top and the proceeds are invested in the new market trend. Market Timing I think it is call. The mint has made record sales of silver eagles. You did dive into it and that is a plus for you have some things others do not. You may have mistakenly overshot your comfort level. Use the extra stuff for barter items.

      • gone under

        The mistake you made is that you bought stuff that you dont use. That is a common, but pricey mistake. Here is a example of what you should have done. I shoot my firearms and hunt with them. I eat the food from my garden and “can” the rest for winter. I cut, split and burn my firewood in my wood stove. I make food stuff with my flour mill and dutch oven. I fix everything I own with my tools and welding equipment plus build shit like snowplows for my friends. I have a root cellar for winter and summer food storage. I reload ammo so I dont get raped at the gun store. See? If you bought a bunch of shit that you dont use, then you screwed up and you need to write down a plan. Buy bulk. Use it and rotate it. Good luck.. Notice that I didnt mention PM’s. cause out here people barter. Gold is for the cities where people think it has a use.(red thumbs please)

        • REB

          This is where preparedness is a part of your lifestyle…like a spoke in your wheel…not an accessory lying on a shelf somewhere as an after thought but a supporting interwoven part of everyday life…its the way to make it work for you…otherwise it becomes work and you get tired/bored and you stop doing it…”gone under” ,my friend you get It and youll make it…I pray others do/will before its too late…

    61. jimbow

      tell walmart about the Social Collapse last month or was it 2 months ago

    62. wncmountainboy

      Saw a mockumentary on the tube last night about the possibility of the rabies virus becoming a human pandemic. Quite creepy. God knows to what extent these power-crazed world governments, including our own, have cooked up in a secret lab somewhere!
      I think we’re on borrowed time and an epidemic of some sort is just around the corner, whether natural or man-made.

      1918: 100 million dead from influenza outbreak in only 5 weeks. That was the simple flu…imagine what some evil nerd has cooked up in a petri dish.

      I think massive global depopulation is much more likely from a microbial source than cme’s, emp’s, asteroids, or even modern warfare.

    63. Shootit

      As on display currently in Argentina.

      foxnews com/world/2013/12/10/deadly-looting-police-strikes-test-argentina-on-30th-anniversary-dictatorship/

      dailymail co uk/news/article-91169/President-resigns-riots-leave-22-dead-Argentina.html

    64. Nam Marine

      Mic Roland is a damn Moron ! Stupid should be painful !

    65. old guy

      9 degrees out side today. and more winter preciperation forcast for Friday. Glad I prepped and cut plenty of firewood. Glad we have plenty of hay & feed for the livestock. very happy the electric stayed on and didn’t need to run the generator! So far ive harvested two deer. one a small doe was probably only 7 months old. cut it up into steaks. the other a 4 point buck was likely about 20 months old. Made steaks from the tenderloin (back strap) and am in the process of taking the remainder off the bone and grinding it into deer burger. Ive been growing a type of sweet potato for several years. Its not a orange colored yam that folks commonly call a sweet potato. its yellowish white inside and similar to a irish potato but is grows tubers & vines like the orange yams do. it does very well in our clay based soil. Irish potatoes don’t produce well in this region.

    66. Davidus Romanus

      Couple of things the author left out. Most men among the armies were conscripted. They were forced to go kill others. The other thing is that thousands of French soldiers mutinied in 1915 in an effort to end the carnage. Instead of being praised for being “civilized”, they were shot or sent back to the trenches.

    67. Anonymous

      All, I’m sure the majority of you are not Mormon – and that’s fine, but there are a couple of stories in the Book of Mormon that are very appropriate here. There were a large group of warlike “bad guys” who were converted to the gospel of Jesus Christ. After their miraculous conversion, the idea of compromising their new found morals was so repulsive to them that, even when they were attacked by other warlike bad guys who had NOT been converted, they refused to fight back. They allowed themselves to be slaughtered rather than compromise their morals. Principle and morality overcame the fear of death.

      There was another story where a whole nation was warned ahead of time that they were going to be attacked and probably destroyed by another nation. Rather than attack aggressively, the leader of the “good guys” had the entire nation barricade themselves in a central area of the country with 7 years of supplies – seeds, grain, livestock, etc. They, too, had faith that if they honored their morals, they would be ok. When the battle approached, one of the good guys said, “Let’s go get them before they get us”. Their leader said “No, the Lord has commanded that we wait until attacked, and He will protect us. If we attack, we have violated our morals, and HE will no longer protect us. A side note – these “bad guys” found themselves outside the barricade, with no crops, no livestock, and no skills (they were called the “Gadianton Robbers”, because they had always lived by taking the wealth of others by force. Bottom line of this story, again – morals and principles trumped fear of death.

      In the scenarios described in this well-written and very accurate piece, fear of death won out over morals. When faced with death or starvation, we became animals. That, in my opinion, is the problem. Our morals are convenient. Many will, of course, argue with me, but they will do so in vain.

      Would I kill to protect my family? Yes, I would. But that is my weakness – I have not evolved to the point where my fear of death is trumped by my morals, or by my faith in Christ.

    68. Fleendar the wise

      At any given day of the week, we are approximately 9 meals away from anarchy and chaos. Those who are incapable of fending for themselves will die attempting to steal.
      For years I have been telling others that IF something happened that removed all of today’s conveniences and electrical devices from use, uncountable numbers would die because they have NO idea on how to survive without their microwave and i pad.

    69. DH

      Read “The Lucifer Effect” by the creator of the Stanford Prison Experiment. Scary as hell. Good people can — and almost inevitably WILL — go bad very easily, with surprisingly little pressure.

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