The following article has been shared with our community by Joe “The Plumber” Wurzelbacher. You can follow Joe’s regular commentary and insights at JoeForAmerica.com or visit his Facebook page.
Recently, a California court has sided with a mother who was placed on a state child abuse database after spanking her 12-year-old daughter. She claimed a parental right to impose reasonable discipline on her child, who was slacking off in school. The court agreed: “Reasonable” corporal punishment is a legitimate disciplinary measure.
Damn Straight!!
Let me tell you, I was not always the greatest kid and my parents did what had to be done. They would talk with me, explain things and spend time with me and my brother. My parents were and are great role models but I’m here to tell ya I definitely got my behind whooped.
Guess what? I deserved it.
My dad was very serious about the whole thing. I would get into trouble, back-talking, or being disrespectful, which were both spanking offenses. He would send me to my room and I would have to wait patiently. Then he’d come in and explain why I was there, what I did wrong and what he expected of me in the future – often with a story where we would both laugh. Then he would stand up, take off his belt and I assumed the position.
Afterwards we might talk just a bit longer and depending upon what I did to get into trouble in the first place I would either have to stay in my room longer or I was free to go. I never hated my dad for those spankings, it was obvious I was at fault.
Onto my Ma 
My Ma loves me more than anything in this world and she would spank my ass with a spoon, a hot wheels race car track (why did I ever ask for those for Christmas??), a switch, a belt, her hand, or just about anything she could lay her hands on at the that particular time to prove it! Believe me, I definitely deserved it!
Then, like everything in this country, the liberals, academia and the do-gooders got involved.
The American Academy of Pediatrics urges parents not to resort to any sort of corporal punishment or spanking under any circumstance. “There’s no reason to get physical with a child when other discipline tactics are more effective,” says Benjamin Siegel, M.D., chair of the AAP’s Committee on Psychosocial Aspects of Child and Family Health.
Understanding that I have not done a survey of any significance involving kids who got spanked and kids who didn’t, I respectfully ask Dr. Siegel; “How’s that working out?”
Seriously – are kids better now than they were twenty or thirty years ago? And I don’t just mean in terms of respect or responsibility – that’s obvious – they’re far worse. I’m talking about are kids more or less able to understand there are consequences for their actions? Are they better able to handle themselves as adults, to think for themselves in terms of right and wrong?
Before you pass out from rhetorical overload, I’m not sitting here thinking the whole mess is caused by a lack of spanking, but you can’t deny that discipline is (pardon the pun) sorely lacking in the youth culture – and tell me, what does that get someone when they become old enough to enter the workforce and start their own family?
They don’t have the mindset to deal with life. There’s no one to wipe your nose out there and if you ask me, kids who grow up with a lack of discipline are the ones that have been abused.
Anyone who owns a business or is in a position to train or hire employees knows you’re lucky if you can just get somebody to show up on time, much less work hard all day for the sheer reason that working hard is its own reward. The entitlement mentality seems to have morphed into a default-mode for young adults in the age of Obama. Did poor parenting cause this? Yes.
Which brings me to what I want to say:
I was a service plumber for a long time, I went to lots of peoples homes and was amazed at what I saw. I would see young children tell their parents no, and the parents did nothing, almost like they were helpless. I would see older children cuss and yell at their parents, and the parents would cuss and yell back or do nothing.
Some parents would look at me and you could see the shame, while others really didn’t care and no, these weren’t bad parts of town. In fact it was quite the opposite – these were middle class, upper middle class and down right rich neighborhoods. Also from what I saw it was more white collar than blue…
Side note, I never saw this happen in a house I went to where the children were being homeschooled. But before you go cuckoo on me, I suppose I have to say this: Am I proponent for spanking , Hell ya… Do I believe in Beatings, NO!
Parents or a single parent seem to be more concerned with wanting their child to like them or being friends with them, or are too busy working two jobs to give a child the single most thing they crave: Discipline. Critics will quickly jump on that word and scream child abuse but you know that’s not what I’m talking about. Kids love discipline and I’ll give you proof which is easy to see.
Just take a look at gangs.
Kids join a gang for many reasons, most of the time because they don’t have an alternative, but here’s what a gang provides: Expectations, goals, consequences of behavior, standards, dress codes, loyalty, bonding, father-figures, business training, protection of fellow members, safety, teamwork, pride and… discipline.
In other words, everything that child craves, but isn’t getting from his parent(s) or whoever is claiming responsibility for them. If it weren’t for the drugs, crime, violence, murder and long prison sentences – I’d recommend gangs for all kids. That was a little levity for you humor-impaired out there..
I wonder if Dr. Siegel with all the degrees and answers on how to run your life has any disciplinary guidelines for gangs he might impart to make them more productive, useful and successful when it comes to meting out punishment? Methinks they might laugh at Dr. Siegel and explain to him that they use the old ‘trial and error’ method of what works and what doesn’t work while they’re jacking his watch, wallet and BMW.
Because before people like the good-intentioned Doctor got involved in parental intervention via academia; that’s what families did too. They found what worked best and turned out better and better kids who grew up and were good moms and dads and loved their kids so much they weren’t afraid to spank them when they went off track. Thanks anyway, doc..
Ouch!
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I did. No belts though, they turned out to be wonderful men. No regrets.
Ya’ll keep preppin’
After we were spanked you can bet for sure we never did it again! We just knew when we pushed our parents just too far!
We only spank our child for direct defiance. Everything else can be handled with lesser forms of punishment. Often actions have their own negative consequences and all a parent has to do is let them play out and explain the link.
My father would often lose control and beat me like a drum to where I lost all respect for him. The last time I saw him he started criticizing how I raise my children. I reminded him of all the beatings I owe him while giving him a taste of my power. The look of terror on his face was very rewarding.
Spanking serves the purpose for child rearing. Cant see where this topic has anything to do with prepping tho. Another strike. And in about 10 more comments the arguing will commence.
Ill go wash some Mason jars. Then Ill go buff the sealing rings. This is a good afternoon for canning something. Nothing going on here.
Spare the rod, spoil the child.
The advice was given by a reliable source thousands of years ago, but certainly bears repeating in today’s world.
That’s bullshit! I lived in a foster home and the woman there NEVER abused us ever!! (No physical abuse or verbal abuse). I made outstanding grades at her house, skipped a grade in school, was considered the ideal foster kid. BECAUSE I HAD A GREAT FOSTER MOM!
In my real home (before foster care), we were all abused. My siblings (who are quite smart) didn’t even finish high school. The abuse was horrific and detrimental.
I know the difference respect makes. My foster mom always treated us with respect and demanded we respect her. When we did something wrong, she disciplined us but never harmed us. Its not necessary.
(I did occasionally spank my kids but very, very seldom).
Actually, I don’t think spanking is that bad if you don’t go overboard and only OCCASSIONALLY resort to it. Its FAR BETTER to discipline– that is, take something away or restrict or whatever.
Spanking is not really discipline– its an outlet for the parent. Its actually a form of violence.
Anonymous,
You are an excellent example of a winner, thank you for your personal yet poignant post. Those who red thumb you are perhaps masking their own bad behavior when it comes to physically hitting one who is probably a quarter of their size.
I love happy endings.
Bollocks. Belting a kid is child abuse. If you can’t teach your kids right from wrong with out hitting them, then you’re a crap parent.
I have a personal rule …. If I see you smack a kid …..expect to get a knuckle sandwich from me.
Child a users!
Cede, I also have a personal rule. If I see you giving a knuckle sandwich to someone who is rightfully disciplining their kid, then you get a baseball bat to the face. Might want to think about that before you decide to violently interfere in someone else’s parenting….prick. I’m guessing your piss poor attitude is probably because you were never disciplined as a child. The point of spanking a child is so that he doesn’t need reconstructive surgery later from jumping into someone else’s business and trying to push them around.
If someone did that to me, they better knock me down so I don’t get back up. Because if I do, they’ll need a gun. I am not a big bad ass, but I have a mean temper and am able to handle myself. And that situation would uncork me quicker than you could say ouch!
Cede, people like you are the problem. Plain stupid
If you hit a child several things happen. You teach them that might makes right, and that it’s OK to force to make the world come out the way you want. You teach them a double standard. Parents tell their children it’s not right to hit other children, then they hit their own children. Why is it bad for me to hit someone, but it’s right for my parents to hit me? And last, you teach them that it’s really only bad to get caught, since that’s when the consequences arrive. Plenty of commenters, like me, grew up OK after being spanked (in my case beaten). That’s like the economy. It produces in spite of what the gov’t does, not because of it. Are you telling me that all of you child hitters out there are incapable of teaching right and wrong without violence? Are you telling me you can’t set boundaries without the use of force? Do your kids respect you so little? Just because things have been done a certain way for centuries, does NOT mean we cannot progress in a positive direction. Slavery and serfdom were (except in the US) eliminated peacefully. Can we not eliminate violence against children and still raise them up to be moral adults?
Being it bitch. After I get done beating your ass I’ll explain to my kids why ignorant adults need a good ass beating, then proceed to finish the spankings they deserved before I was rudely interrupted by an obummer voter.
I’m not fluent in the language of violence, but I know enough of the to get by when I have to…
Keep that in mind
You obviously don’t have kids anyway…
8 for 5 The judge gets in trouble. Being right is no excuse in Ca.
Calgacus, how about tramping on parental rights, govt. control, and govt. interference???
Why would I trample on parents rights JayJay. A parent has the right to punish a child because its a god-given right to parent. Its also a childs right to enjoy their own basic rights. But a child also deserves to enjoy their own liberty as well, even as a minor. As a minor a child has justice served first by being raised under their parents and second by our laws. Some parents just aint suited to parent and you know that. If not, you live w/ your head in the sand. When a parents justice turns to anger or rage and a parent turns there child into an object then the child must be protected. We have to behave in a civilized way in a civilized society otherwise its WROL in a household. Like it or not abusers forced the hand of police and then government. Its one thing to spank a child but its something different to beat the shit out of one or to put that child in harms way somehow. Thats no longer a parent in a parental role of being provider and protector. Thats taking away a childs basic rights to their own freedoms and liberty. Abuse comes in different flavors and sizes but this country has laws now and the govt has decided what is and what isnt acceptable.
So you can stuff your old lady bullshit up your ass and find someone else to pick a fight with. Arguing online here with old nags like you aint worth my time.
For me, I was spanked or should I say smacked on the rear end with a belt. I was actually a pretty good kid but I had parents who were stressed out most of the time. Five kids, put alcohol in the picture during a time when spanking was acceptable and alcohol, not pretty.
I can honestly say that I spanked one of my kids, once, only once and never again. Many people spank when they are angry and let’s face it, you probably outweigh your kids by a lot.
I have great kids who are respectful, kind and decent. They never give me reason to spank them so I never do and after my experience growing up, I never will. The only thing spanking did for me was to push me out of the house as soon as I was 17.
There are many ways to discipline other than using physical force.
“The only thing spanking did for me was to push me out of the house as soon as I was 17. ”
Time to go anyway.
My neighbor won’t spank her kids—she just screams at them, then ignores them again.
The 6 yr old gets mad and throws some of the most violent temper tantrums I’ve ever seen. She picks him up and he kicks at her, pummels her with his fists (in the face if he could reach).
I’ve seen him spit in her face and, he has walked up to her on her couch and pissed on her. He’ll hack things up with butcher knives and has set curtains on fire before. The mom’s inability to discipline her kids gets more dangerous the older they get.
One day soon, he’ll literally overpower her and that will be that.
HE HAS NO IDEA HOW LUCKY HE IS THAT HE WAS NOT MY CHILD…it would be a cold day in hell. That’s all I’ve got to say.
That is what`s called an “anecdote” stupid! It is not an example of cause and effect!
I certainly hope their isn`t anyone out there unlucky enough to be YOUR child! THAT`S ALL I`VE GOT TO SAY!!
i/m gonna disagree with you sixpack. i betcha that kid WOULD be VERY lucky to have YOU for a parent! kids need discipline! PERIOD! that kid is just reaching out, desperate for a firm, guiding hand. kids test limits, it’s what they DO, it’s who they ARE. BTW, i do believe in spanking, but only ’til they are teens. if you don’t have “control” of them by then, it’s probly too late. my boys KNOW they lie to me, it’s an ass-beatin’…..so they just DON’T. my wife has 2 girls about same age and she DOESN’T discipline them…they got NO respect for HER(or me). and the younger one would lie when telling the truth would serve her BETTER.
BCOD, I know you’re right. He IS acting out. His mom runs the neighborhood, leaving him and his siblings to fen for themselves. His hatred/frustration does seem to be aimed directly at mom. They’ve never acted that way around me. I think they know better, because I never leave them an opening.
Yet I’ve never yelled at them nor raised a hand to them even jokingly.
They just know their “mom” is a joke and I really feel so sorry for the kids—for the “mom”, not so much.
My dad was finishing the brick work on the back of the house he built and I was about 12.
I didn’t KNOW he was finishing the brick work on the back of the house!!
I was on the back of the bike with my little sister, she hit a bump, and I said, ‘can’t you drive this GD thing?’, and as she turned that corner….there stood dad.
I got a few straps with the nearest thing he saw; just happened to be a hose pipe.
Well, to this day I have trouble with that word as I should have!!
And if the dog does not shit on the floor anymore because I beat the crap out of it every time, does not mean the dog understands why it should`t shit on the floor.
Maybe it was your old man`s poor parenting skills that lead to the incident in the first place.
Maybe if your dad had beat you, you wouldn’t be the asshole that you are today.
The dog doesn’t need to understand WHY it shouldn’t shit on the floor, all it needs to know is not to do it. You can’t talk sense to a dog, but I’m sure you try, huh wow?
So you are quite happy with the dog crapping on the floor?
Perhaps you enjoy treading through the mess and living with the smell?
Sometimes understanding isn’t needed at the time, but can be learned later.
Say the child needs to stop doing something- like running out on the road- but is too young or hyperactive to be reasoned with. What do you do? Put them in ‘time out’ when you get home? The sting of being spanked is instant and reinforces the telling off, right there and then.
Your dog doesn’t crap inside any more for a reason. He knows that if he does, there will be consequences. This is called LIFE. There are consequences for everything. Some are good, some are bad. I believe that a little sting now to prevent bigger bad consequences later ( like being run over) is the lesser of evils.
Have a nice day.
Notice, that the spankings created respect for the law. Those that didn’t get their rear ends heated up generally don’t respect any law. Look at Bieber. How was his discipline at home?
Divorced mother, I believe.
*sarcasm*
Indeed, I agree with you. Spanking your children, or enforcing your will on your children, compels them to submit to authority. Incidentally but equally moral, governments disciplines their citizens to submit to servitude and slavery. Therefore, its undoubtedly moral to coerce your children, just like its moral for the government to coerce its citizens.
*sarcasm*
If you don’t like the government, or anyone else for that matter, enforcing their will on you, why would you ever adopt those traits by enforcing your will on your children.
Your correct observation will doubtless fall on deaf ears; or, shall I say primitive, narrow-minded ears!
better narrow-minded than no-minded…
I was spanked and got the belt several times from my Dad when growing up. No regrets and it taught me never to do that again. As a child of the 50’s my parents used discipline out of love. It was never used as abuse.
Today you have many unstable parents and individuals who should never had kids in the first place. Our society is much different today than it was when I was growing up. So spanking or even the use of a belt with parents who are stable and do it out of love for their children so they get the point, I don’t have a problem with.
That is what is the matter with today’s youth, a good beating does change the minds of the young generation of today….
If the parent can’t control themselves, they should never lay a hand on their child. The difference between a spanking and a beating is control (or lack of).
How could anyone expect a child to learn how to control themselves, when their parents can’t?
my father never spanked us when he was angry ,he waited till that evening ,then would explain why (which we didnt need to be told we already knew)and then he would spank our rear ends ,now mom ,that was another story ,it was wham bam at the moment of showing your ass and it was over ,i kinda liked it better that way ,there was no build up to it ,just a quick smack or two and you were done ,unless how ever it was somthing real bad ,then you got it from the old man later that night also
You or I or no one gets to say who deserves to have their kids.
I hate that as much as you do, but you open up that Pandora’s box… pretty soon you got all sorts of government agencies, with neighbors making shit up and ratting out their neighbors, broken homes, government dependents out the wazoo… you get me.
OH LIKE NOW. Huh… how funny.
It takes a village to mind their own goddam business.
I hate that as much as you do but what’s going on right now is far and away worse than some isolated cases of abuse.
“It takes a village to mind their own goddam business”
Smartest thing I’ve read all day.
If intentionally causing “pain” to someone (young, sensitive and impressionable), no matter what their “crime” is, because that’s what we believe works “best” for solving the problem, then it’s a sad commentary on how primitive our mindset as culture is. Violence begets violence, no matter how it’s justified.
Spare the rod and spoil the child….
Make sense?
And what makes you think “spare the rod” means “corporal punishment”? You think Jesus would have physically assaulted a child as a means to “discipline” him/her?
No, but he did say to “HONOR your mother and father”.
Would that mean to go out and do exactly what they told you not to do?
I got my whoopings and everyone tells me I turned out okay, what is your take on this?
And no one said “corporal punishment”, did they, just saying that parents have to set “rules” to make thier offspring be respectful of the parents who brought them into this world….
Much less the rest of the population…
I bet your parents never spanked you?
“and no one said “corporal punishment”, did they”
Do you know what corporal punishment is? How about…
“Corporal punishment is a form of physical punishment that involves the deliberate infliction of pain as retribution for an offence, or for the purpose of disciplining or reforming a wrong doer, or to deter attitudes or behaviour deemed unacceptable.”
You’re telling me that “spanking” doesn’t clearly fall under that?
Listen, you can justify “behavior modification techniques” anyway you want. It seems that the majority here are doing just that. I suspect they, like myself, were spanked growing up and they think it “worked because they turned out okay”. But then again, who is to say they, or me, or you, turned out okay? Are Americans just oozing with unconditional love for each other? Look around.
Regarding “honoring” your mother and father. It is the Mother and Father that must honor the child “first”, for it is they who consciously chose to bring that child into the world. Parents who honor their child,, which I believe means loving them unconditionally, will receive, naturally and automatically that “honor” in return. This honor, you mentioned, cannot be forced. It’s either there or it isn’t. And physically striking a child is NEVER going to make a child honor it’s parents, regardless what the majority at this site believe.
And don’t confuse me with those leftist trying to be politically correct by not disciplining their children. Discipline is essential, it’s mandatory. but we are also on the verge of coming out of the “dark ages” when it comes to how we have disciplined and how we will be disciplining our children. If your mind set is “I was spanked and it worked for me” then, you’re not getting it. I didn’t work. Physical abuse, even under the guise of discipline, does achieve long term benefits. I have read that even now, 75% of American parents practice spanking as their tool for modifying bad behavior. Does it work? Look at how Fucked up this culture is. Can you deny it? Is spanking the reason? Probably one of just many reasons along with over consumption of: video games, gmo junk food, texting, iphones, internet, tv, social networking, and on and on and on, ad nauseum.
Really the problem is this. Most parents, including some that post here, practice spanking because that’s all they know. In their impatient minds it’s the path of least resistance, i.e. they think its solves “their” problem, but it never will.
EA:
Sorry to have tourqued your cord. Please accept my apoligies. I had not meant to rile you up.
But look to the Isrealites in the wilderness, GOD told them to wipe out completely 36 different tribes of a million people plus each. Is this not corporal punishment? Why do you think he said that? Maybe YHWH knew that it would come back and bite them in thier butts as we are seeing now with the Paleistines (PHILISTINES)
Or do you not believe in the Bible?
I myself wonder why YHWH asked all this?
He also punished Saul for not killing all the men, wemon, children and AMIAMALS?
Not to demean any statements you have provided, just what does the Bible mean to “Spare the rod, Spoil the child”?
I agree with you on some parts, but others are vague…
I am glad we can converse in this degree, but we have to agree to disgree…
NO HURT FEELINGS?
I have not tried to make enemies, just intelligent conversation to expand each of our minds to what will be needed to reach the final goal… HEAVEN.
Agreed, EA. Whipping/hitting is a result of lack of self discipline on the part of the abuser/parent. It results from losing patience/one’s own self control.
I always had the utmost respect and admiration for my foster mom. She taught me self discipline because SHE was so self disciplined. She was a good person. Extremely strict. Firm. But never abused us.
Spanking isn’t the same as assault. Would Jesus have assaulted a child? No. Discipline is what is meant by eppe quoting scripture. Read Hebrews about disciplining, even for a little while as seems right. God disciplined Israel, in the wilderness (1,000s died). Will you call that assault? He flooded the earth, is that assault?
Jesus took the punishment for our sins and the sins of the whole world (note: our punishment). Do you believe in hell? Is that a choice or an assault?
We have a saying here: don’t do the crime if you can’t do the time. Disobedience deserves a just reward; a spanking and not a beating.
D: It is amazing how our world has disentergerated to the point it is at now. I do believe if we went back to bibical teaching, the world would be a better place…
They tell us it’s inappropriate to use “violence” for disciplinary reasons, but I guarantee you the state will not spare the child such punishment later.
The state has no problem sending 12 yr olds to prison for the rest of their lives, or sentencing them to lethal injection or the electric chair…they call that “humane”.
I’d rather beat the kids ass now, than watch them be put to death by the state later.
It’s all just one more way to take control away from parents, and give it to the govt.
So tell us, DR5508 the difference between a beating and a spanking and where does one draw the line? How do YOU know you haven’t crossed that line when you spank/assault a child? No blood was let? No bruises? You just “sensed” you had made the needed impression then backed down? And maybe YOU know when not to cross that line, i.e. irreversibly traumatize the child emotionally, physically mentally, but hundreds of other parents don’t. They hear you justifying on this blog, reinforcing it in them, and they go out a whip that child to “set ’em straight”.
When one thinks about it, the whole concept of hurting someone to change them is pathetic. Its one of the many reasons our country is getting so fucked up.
Who made you the expert? Have you disciplined any child? The schools don’t do it,society doesn’t do it. So if nobody disciplines one’s child the behavior must be alright? get a grip!
European American:
You should have had more beatings and also had your mouth washed out with soap for your filthy language. It would have helped your attitude and you probably wouldn’t be such a sissy socialist as you are now.
You really don’t know or get it, do you? You want answers to your liberal questions but don’t answer questions to you. As long as you want to redefine terms, you’ll never agree with mine or anyone elses answers. Trauma?/emotional?/etc.. Are you really that into rejecting spanking. It is easy to know if I haven’t crossed the line. I never spanked my children while angry and always gave them time to recover(?) and then we discussed the events that happened, the why and the how.
Thank you, European American, for setting these nitwits straight! It reminds me of my nephews– they were both severly beaten by their father and when they grew up- well, one is an alcholic. The other, with an IQ close to genius, doesn’t even work, didn’t even finish high school. It is NOT ok to violate others’ boundaries.
Reid says:
European American:
You should have had more beatings and also had your mouth washed out with soap for your filthy language. It would have helped your attitude and you probably wouldn’t be such a sissy socialist as you are now.
Well, he should have met my dad!! 😉
So, European American , just how many children have you raised?
Actually, I barely remember the spankings/whippings. Whats REALLY BAD is verbal abuse. Unfortunately, when parents physically abuse their kids (whippiings), it probably leads to verbal abuse as well, and that is DEFINITELY WRONG!!!!
Agreed! Why can’t the “Rod” be a disappointment on your face, an explanation for their punishment, a “time Out”, anything but physical.
“””Why can’t the “Rod” be a disappointment on your face, an explanation for their punishment, a “time Out”, anything but physical”””
Because the fastest way to a kids brain is through the pain sensors on their butts.
You can bet that those promoted as “authorities” on child raising are spouting the corp line as what is right, when true to the corp MO it is counterproductive and creates further problems within society because of a general lack of discipline.
It’s not the kids at fault today, it is the parents who believe the corp and it’s propaganda is meant for purposes other than creating chaos and destroying the country.
Perhaps we should begin spanking congress and Obama. The lack everything a good spanking is meant to instill in a child.
Amen brother…
Beating is NOT good because its abuse and when one is drunk with power and abuses others, it often leads to even further abuse… for a good example, look no further than our own governement!
You people who who so archaic and drunk with the idea of beating others, you feel this way because that is all you have known!
I have lived in 2 different homes and I KNOW THE DIFFERENCE that a non-abusive environment makes!!! (A non-abusive foster home, where I excelled, and an abusive home, in which I skipped school half the time!)
*It’s not the kids fault today*
It is ALWAYS somebody else’s.
Thats why I don’t read the Bible very often anymore. It does have a lot of good stuff- mostly the parts about what Jesus said and did– but it also has stuff that is contradictory and simply not true.
It is NOT good to whip your kid with a rod. It is NOT good to destroy the earth (“have dominion over the earth, subdue the earth”, or whatever). It is NOT good for man to dominate his wife. It is NOT good to throw one’s kids into an everlasting fire forever and forever, just because they didn’t learn the lessons you were trying to teach them in time.
In essence, I believe the Bible was originally written by Godly men… but someone apparently came along and changed some of it because its just not reasonable in parts!
God is LOVE!
Anonymous, you have the courage to call a spade a spade; a shining light in the murky depths of Hell, here. If these sadists need to revert to violence as a way to control their children, ‘to show their distorted love’ for their children, well, that’s not only their problem, but sadly, also their child’s problem.
Why anyone would justify and defend this behavior shows how fucked up the minds are of those who resort to violence as a way to control their immediate environment.
I’ve met plenty of open minded, conservative religious parents, who took the time to be patient with their kids, while firmly disciplining them, without having the need to lay a single finger on them, other than a hug, and their children came out way better than the dumbed down kids, under the influence of Rx drugs, strung out on gmo junk food, running around, always looking down at the iphones growing out of their palms, while seemingly lost in a world they’ve lost touch with. Where are there parents?
And then there are the ones who say my “non violent” approach is some leftist, socialist drivel, which couldn’t be further from the truth, but I’ll let them use that as an excuse to justify their “need” to deal with their inability to know how to “most effectively” deal with a problem child that they created in the first place.
Just because the majority beats, oops, need to be politically correct here, “spanks” their child, makes it right?
Denial is an infectious dis-ease that runs rampant across America. Very few are immune to it’s intoxicating affects. Right is wrong and Wrong is right.
And we wonder why the collective of this country is on the verge of an emotional, mental and physical, cataclysmic meltdown?
***Why can’t the “Rod” be a disappointment on your face, an explanation for their punishment, a “time Out”, anything but physical.***
Because that doesn’t work(other than getting a laugh out of the offender behind your back) and mom and dad in the 50s and 60s were too damned busy taking care of work, doing laundry BY HAND, and cooking REAL meals to put on that table to invest time that it takes for time-out, and explaining.
🙂
@ tishie…..I too have worked in peoples homes for over forty-five years, and have seen about everything ! From letting four year olds beat on pots & pans in kitchen floor with BIG spoons ,with religious music? blaring in background ! ( I finally asked young woman to please stop the racket) My nerves were shot ! To the Mama who was explaining to her three YOUNG girls ,sitting on a couch watching Jerry Springer, what intercourse was all about !! Thankfully I’m done with that now, because I don’t think I could handle hearing a young mom telling her kids” Now Lil Johnny ,stop hitting your sister with that hatchet or you’ll get a Time-Out” !! And YES , I got the belt, I earned it !!…..mm p.s. “Lil Suzy ,stop spraying your brother with that hairspray,WTF are you doing with that LIGHTER !!??”
Oh dear God in heaven the Jesus argument.
You know it’s utterly jumped the shark when…
Jesus didn’t have kids.
I can name you quite a few Biblical figures that would have inflicted physical punishment however. And as I recall He said something about not coming to erase everything in the Old Testament.
That’s as close as you’re going to get on resolving that one.
Anyway, come on out here to CommieLand Wax Museum ^^ Aka California! You can see what happens when everyone thinks shit can be resolved with flowers and bunny rabbits.
Having said that.
If you do spank a kid you had damn well better:
1. Be utterly non-angry when you do it
2. Be utterly and totally fair and consistent about it, with them, their siblings, and in every situation
3. Not let your personal life fall apart in front of them
So you better really have your shit together before you go there. Failure to meet these criteria positvely GUARANTEES rebellion against you later in life.
@the guy…amen. just remember, your kids will be picking which nursing home you stay in some day. it amazes me how some don’t see the difference between a pat on the ass, that doesn’t hurt(some parents do it all to much)….a spanking(it’s something to NOT look forward to)…..and a BEATING(…these are marked by EXCESSIVE pain, going beyond getting the child’s attention).
European American,
Judging by all the red thumbs, I get the feeling there are quite a few child abusers here. Sometimes it takes an article like this one to weed out the losers. To tell you the truth, this makes me sick and I don’t think I want to share anything with these types anymore.
God speed to those who believe and live the way God intended. Sure you could claim, spare the rod spoil the child but isn’t it all about interpretation?
Psalm 103:13
As a father shows compassion to his children, so the Lord shows compassion to those who fear him.
Colossians 3:21
Fathers, do not provoke your children, lest they become discouraged.
Yes, Star Swinger, research shows that those who abuse their children were very likely abused themselves, i.e. those that spank, were spanked. It’s past on, generation to generation. So that makes it “normal”, accepted, “My parents used corporal punishment on me, so it must be good. I’m a good person!” Clearly, lots of beatings received by many here (look at all those thumbs down votes, we hit a major inflamed nerve). Violence begets violence and many here don’t want to hear that. Case in point, “Reid” (not at all a grounded, happy camper), abused (probably beaten to an inch of his life at some point while chewing on a bar of soap), so he in turn abuses. So sorry for his 5 year old that he periodically “swats” (like a fly).
What people like “Reid” sadly don’t understand are the inherent long term effects of hitting their child. Just because the child stops doing the action for which the physical punishment was meant to curtail, doesn’t mean the child becomes a ” healthy, better” person, it simply means the “behavior was modified” for THE SHORT TERM. If anything, though, over time, the pain associated with that punishment will manifest through a veritable number of different emotional, mental, physical disorders, even if the (now) grown adult “believes they are okay, normal”. It’s inevitable, just look at our culture, far from peaceful and ‘loving’.
Parents who spank lack patience as a virtue. They spank, because that is all they know. They’ll try to justify it in a number of ways from “biblical scripture” to “my parents did it to me and I TURNED OUT OKAY”, which doesn’t prove anything. They’re misinterpreting scripture just as the misinterpreting the mental stability (dysfunctionality) of their parents and themselves.
Impatience is the reason they spank, and that’s because they want a quick solution and reaching over and smacking, spanking, swatting, beating, slapping their child is really the easiest way of dealing with the problem, a problem that ultimately the parent is responsible for. So, on the surface, the kid stops the “bad” behavior.
Once the physical action of hitting a child begins, there’s no turning back. The parent figures, “okay” this is it, now i have to stick to this method of punishment, and the child now knows, I’m going to get hurt if I do something that my parent deems punishable for, even if it is not logical or rational in my mind, in some instances. So the hitting becomes that way that the parent modifies the childs behavior, and the child is programmed, out of fear, just as the parent was programmed as children, to behave in a way that is not necessarily natural nor healthful. How does this manifest in the world today? A collective that does things like: elect psychopaths like Obama into office, eat poisons like GMO junk food, rampant obesity, one out of every two on Rx drugs, addictions to the certain sites on the Internet, etc., etc., etc, all because as young impressionable and innocent children, they were imprinted with fear to do what their dysfunctional parents felt was the right thing.
Yes, Star Swinger, there are quite a few abused child abusers here, and we’ve stirred the proverbial hornets nest by exposing something that, for most, is a subject that pushes one too many, internally painful buttons. Raising children with fear tactics, is not normal, but has become the norm…as psychopaths and sociopaths run the world.
I meant to say “George Zimmerman”, not Reid, regarding “swatting” his 5 year old.
European American,
Your post is brilliant and very well said, thank you for the intelligent sanity, based on the truth.
I unequivocally agree with your EA, nice to know that some individuals have the maturity and intelligence to not become the monster that they despise, in the case of the abusive parent or abusive collective(government).
There is a difference between discipline and abuse. Learn it. Learn it well.
Discipline is to reinforce correct behaviour.
Abuse is just that, abuse of power- physical, mental etc, and is a curse, being passed down to the next generation.
A very few break the curse.
European American: Do you have any kids?
We parents don’t inflict spanking “pain” for the sake of just causing pain; but rather to establish a link between unacceptable behavior and “consequence”. If we’re going to bitch at good parents for causing discomfort on their disobedient children for aberrant conduct, then you may as well complain and whine about a hot burner violating civilized and democratic rights of the individual to not get burned. It is what it is.
EA sounds like one of the suckass parents who created this problem. Say what you want, but the parental guidance methods of 100 years ago seem to have worked much better than your suckass “enlightened” drivel. Normal parents don’t enjoy spanking their child, but enjoy seeing them end up in prison even less.
I see you are still waiting on that brain donor George!
Let me see if I have your intricate mathematical equation correct,
No spanking = Prison
Seriously George, don`t buy into that “enlightened” drivel. Incorrigibly stupid fits you like a glove!
How in the world can 28 people give you a thumbs down, European American? Your post was beautifully said!! Just shows this place doesn’t have the most spiritually evolved bunch of people on it! (sigh!)
When has a smack on the nappy with an open hand caused pain??? If you teach them young they never need the belt when they’re older.
I deserved every whipping I got and some I didn’t.
That was then.
This is now.
I understand we also used to have a divorce rate well south of the ludicrous failure rate of jsut over 50% that we have now. And people could also raise a family on one income.
Just sayin’.
USA has the highest divorce rate on the planet by far. Young women today have gotten what their mothers demanded, and many are pissed.
I fell in a dam when I was little. I saw my mom coming toward me with a switch (my sister and I were sitting on a bank, pretending to fish). I got scared, tripped over my sister, fell into the dam and nearly drowned! I went under twice but thankfully, my mom held out a tree branch, I held on and they pulled me out. Afterwards, we got a good lecturing and fussed out– we could tell she was stressed. And we never went back to the dam!
I treated my son growing up like he was my best friend. If I showed disappointment he was hurt and never forgot it as he valued our relationship and level of respect.
How many parents get upset or yell at their kid because they shattered a plate by accident in the kitchen? But if the parents best friend dropped a plate would they yell at them? I doubt it, that would be weird. What’s the difference? Beating on my son would be absolutely unthinkable to me.
I think many parents don’t realize how,much young children absorb from their environment. I think I read something about the first two years is when most major programming is completed. I used to follow the maxim that there are 7 ways to say no to a child, and when my young son started to take his attention in a direction I didn’t want I would attract him to something else, always a positive motivation. I saw a mother holding a very young toddler on her knee and every few seconds she was communicating NO to him through her body language, leg, arms, etc. and I could hardly watch it was so depressing, and I think many people wouldn’t even notice that kind of thing. And how does a child subject to chronic repression express oneself as they grow up? I suppose one would come to the conclusion that they have to be beat upon to get their attention.
On the other hand, maybe the kid has major karmic issues along with the parents!
Ken,
Well said, I feel the same way that you do, bravo to you for sharing your incite, brilliant.
I taught public schools for 6 years, and I’m here to tell ya. I could tell! 😉
Me and the missis had a paddle that hug from the frige… used it on all three of our Kids… they all three grew up to be leaders and are doing great… You don’t reason with a child you lead a child…. PRAY, PLAN, PREP, FORM TEAMS… and dicsipline your kids….
This type of debate reminds me of the problem one has when trying to make the case for the existence of a “Creator.” You cannot logically prove that there is a God—it is a matter of faith. In fact, any intelligent discussion based simply on reasonably provable facts supports the argument against the existence of a god.
Of course, it should not surprise me to hear the many child hitters quote scripture in their justification of striking a defenseless human being.
People here have provided a plethora of stories supporting their belief that physically intimidating a child is a valuable tool required to raise children. Then we have the perfunctory justifications that these same parents were themselves victims of physical abuse. They turned out to become model citizens not in spite of, but rather because of the treatment they endured. I find it impossible to believe that a reasonably intelligent, well-adjusted adult can declare that he/she would not have become the person they are today without the lashings they received as a child.
If one has the courage to engage in some deep introspection, you may find that it is the unresolved issues concerning your parent(s) that contributes to this vicious cycle. It is not easy to accept that your parents (as loving and kind as they were) were WRONG in this particular aspect. I would venture to say that most of us (myself included) are still carrying around unresolved shit from our childhood. If you managed to make it to adulthood with only a couple handfuls of beatings/spankings and no visits to the emergency room, you were fortunate. However, PLEASE stop trying to convince yourself and us that you actually benefitted from it! There is no other example of a human being benefiting from physical intimidation or abuse. CHILDREN ARE NO DIFFERENT!!
Moreover, let me once and for all dispel this absurd notion that “spanking” enjoys this separate distinction from all other forms of physical abuse. If someone cut me off while driving or “talked back” to me at work, would that give me the right to “spank” them? Not a punch, but just a good firm smack on their padded ass! Would the judge dismiss the case after I made the compelling argument that, “how else are they going to learn not to do that again?” or would I be charged with assault? Why is it that society, as a rule, has determined that putting your hands on another human being without their permission is unacceptable, yet spanking is a parent`s prerogative? My house, my rules?
I would encourage anyone who has a slightly open mind to go to this website and read some of the very thoughtful articles concerning children http://www.naturalchild.org. I am the father of a precious little 2 yr. old girl and obviously very passionate about this topic. As I watch her grow and make sense of the world around her, I cannot comprehend how and why someone can/would confuse physical intimidation with genuine love and affection.
An observation that I invite you ALL to look at, or not!
Sorry but, you’re really stupid if you think kids don’t need a spanking now and again. Now, not ALL kids do, if you’re lucky enough to have a child who can take a time out, or toys getting taken as a punishment enough to do better, then fine. But if you find that this does not work, then what? Just yell at them or tell them no? How long is THAT going to work before they realize…”they aren’t going to do crap to me.”
How long before they realize they can do whatever they want and you aren’t going to do shit to them?
Kids are not dumb, so it wont take too long I’ll guarantee you that. When your child is acting a fool and you want get them to stop, it’s because they are kids and they WILL test you to see how much they can get away with. If they find that they can act up this much without anything too terrible in their eyes happening, then what stops them from continuing the behavior? NOTHING.
You know what stops a child from touching a hot stove? The painful memory of knowing they’ll get burned. If you tell your kid to not touch that stove, they MAY listen…or they may let their curiosity get the beter of them and do it anyway, perhaps when you arent looking. Then when they get the punishment of a burn, they relent and do not act so foolishly again. Pain is natures way of telling you “do not do this.”
To try and call it abuse is absolutely RIDICULOUS when what is REALLY abuse is allowing a child to RULE OVER YOU. And they WILL rule over you if they find you are not going to do anything that matters to them to stop them. Once they are teens, you’ll find that go to your room is pointless be because they’ve snuck out the window. And what are you going to do? Nothing.
They have figured you out, and can just as soon spit in your face and walk away before you will tell them what to do. I can tell you right now if my parents had never spanked me, I would probably be someplace I dont want to be.
There is also a difference between spanking and BEATING. If you were BEAT as a kid, its not wonder you turned out fucked up or disliking your parents. Still, DON’T come here with your sob story about that and try and equate it to a spanking because it’s a FAR CRY from the same thing. What YOUR parent did was WRONG. But a spanking, when done right is NOT.
I haven’t met a single person thus far who has been merely SPANKED and come out fucked up, they all love and more importantly, RESPECT their parents for it.
It’s sad that in todays society, people are quick to try and rule your household, then when your kids are fucked up and running around like wild childs, they want to point the blame at the parent for not handling it. Stay out of the business and let the spankings commence, becuse you are only delucding your selves thinking a firm talking to will work on all kids. Newsflash, IT WONT.
And it DOESN’T make you a BAD parent if they do not listen. It means that THAT particular method, WILL NOT WORK. Because kids are NOT the same. Some are easier to handle, others a bit more hard headed. It’s natural. Deal with it and stop treating all kids like a package deal, like they are alike and will respond to the same punishment alike. You will end up sorely mistaken, mark my words.
Don’t get me started on parents. Another dysfunctional aspect of American culture. They elected Obama twice and think they can raise kids, too?
Parents elected obama? ???
In Murdock v. Pennsylvania, 319 US 105: “No State shall convert a liberty into a privilege, license it, and charge a fee therefor.“
– In Sherer v. Cullen, 481 F 946 “There can be no sanction or penalty imposed upon one because of this exercise of constitutional rights.“
– In Shuttlesworth v. City of Birmingham Alabama, 373 US 262: ”If the State converts a right (liberty) into a privilege, the citizen can ignore the license and fee and engage in the right with impunity.“
– Obviously Law Enforcement doesn’t obey the laws.
I will say seeing the actions of some parents I don’t blame the children for not respecting them.
Spanking is one tool of child discipline but it isn’t the only one. You don’t spank your child because you’re mad or frustrated with them. You spank when faced with defiance or something serious enough. The key is to have consistent rules consistently enforced no matter where you are. Did I spank my kid in public when necessary? Absolutely. The child must respect you and they must fear the consequences of disobedience.
I swat my five year old when necessary. I want her to listen to me and obey when I say things like don’t run around in the parking lot.
Barn Cat, I agree. there are situations where spanking is justified and there are situations where another form of discipline would be more effective. I had spankings only twice as a kid and deserved them both times. after that, I became a great kid. Never had any physical or verbal abuse whatsoever from my parents.
Amen, Barn Cat…disciplining only at home and refraining from disciplining in public sends a bad and dangerous message to a child.
“The child must respect you and they must fear the consequences of disobedience.”
Replace the word “child” with “people” and the Globalists would nod with pleased approval indeed!
I`m sure you are a paragon of intellectual and moral virtue. Anyone who does not think and behave as you do deserves a lashing. And you are probably oblivious to that contradiction.
Ignorance is bliss!
What the hell is your problem? You are having a good old time setting up straw man arguments, using diversion and just being a plain ass and talking down to people that don’t conform to your world view.
Remember this and remember it well. Western and europeon society has grown soft. In the harsh reality of how the world really works, despite the obvious and ongoing denial that life and nature are violent. There is only a gossamer thin layer of technology that is insulating us.
Fuzzy feel good is fine when society is fat and comfortable but when the rubber meets the road and the shtf its a completely different story.
Any Mouse, well said. Many don’t want to hear the truth nor accept proven means in reducing crime.
Thank you DUMB AND DUMBER! Hey mouse, you better go back and re-Wiki “straw man” so that you don`t continue to embarrass yourself in the intellectual arena. The use of “gossamer” was a dead giveaway! Don`t worry though, your secret is safe with me ; )
Superiority complex much? See number 5 below for my use of the word gossamer.
gos·sa·mer
[gos-uh-mer] noun
1.
a fine, filmy cobweb seen on grass or bushes or floating in the air in calm weather, especially in autumn.
2.
a thread or a web of this substance.
3.
an extremely delicate variety of gauze, used especially for veils.
4.
any thin, light fabric.
5.
something extremely light, flimsy, or delicate.
Now that we have gotten that out of the way. There is a difference, as explained elsewhere in these comments, between spanking as a tool for discipline and beating,whipping, abuse, etc.
Your indulgence in name-calling and attempted belittling of others in this overall conversation is really nothing short of a weak attempt at bullying. When applied to child of the species it would be labeled verbal abuse.
BTW, your secret is not so secret is it?
Have you seen the videos of people in the south who had to sleep in the supermarket aisles and in their cars because there was 2 inches of snow on the ground? Pure prepper porn.
Interstate totally locked down. It took people 18 hours to make a 9 mile drive. This is why all the bugging out crap is farcical.
Always keep an extra coat, socks, and thermals in the car. And one of the coats you carry should be wool. Always carry extra gas in the car.
2 inches of snow? are you serious ?
I missed that one , whatta laugh .
It must have been down south .
Years ago i was in alabama and they got a 1/2 inch and everyone went nuts . The local PD stopped me and told me that unless i had an emergency the roads were off limits.
We had a good laugh when he saw my michigan license plate , turns out he had family in mich and cant believe anyone would live where the snow gets so deep .
I was free to travel…..
Hammer: It is not the snow, just the numbnuts who cannot drive in the snow, who get stuck and jam up everyone else.
Atlanta is full of idiots from other places, and freak out on a Friday when it RAINS, much less when it snows.
Before Atlanta became a ‘international’ city, we did not have this much of a problem, just when we had everyone move here for “good” jobs did this happen…
Just saying…
NO DISRESPECT INTENDED TO ANYONE
yea eppe , i wasnt beatin up folks down south , i was just sayin how it boggles my mind that such a little snow that will melt in a few hours can mess folks up so bad. Up here we deal with it 5 months outta the year and its just another day. amazing aint it ?
Now , i would cry like a baby if i had to endure the crazy humidity you folks have down there, cant take it!
I agree it does boggle the mind, I have grown up here for 54 years and I have to say it has changed to the worse. But if you ask anyone here, probably only 5% of the people here are natives, makes me a special case…
With that said, I love the heat, not the humidity, but we can only do what we can do given the enviroment we are in.
I have always said “if you don’t like Georgia weather, wait 5 minutes, it will change”. Plus it turned to ice, which makes driving really crazzzzzzy, but I can drive in anything, it is like driving a motorcycle, you do not have to worry about yourself, just everone else….
Eppe and Hammerhead, there was some ice under that little bit of snow. to the northerners and westerners here, we don’t normally get the same kind of winters you do. our infrastructure wasn’t made for it. Yes, we do have a lot of people who lack experience in driving in it. I’ve traveled over two-thirds of this country in years past, including some northern states, so I’m one southerner who knows how to drive in it.
@ hammerhead …..But to be fair with people in Atlanta ,part of that snow was ICE ! I can drive my ole van in snow and I live in South I-Forgot , but ice is a whole nother deal !!…..mm …..Keep on Prepping !
eisen; How about sticking to the subject at hand. you can go off on your own tangent elsewhere.
oh, it’s you again.
eat my shorts
Hey Cuz, I bet if you and Eisencrews could get together, and you could spank him really good, you would both get alot of enjoyment out of that. Just a thought!
NGIC, call 1-800-EAT-SHIT.
Yes and this is my response to one comment:
On FACEBOOK???
{{{“We’ve been in the car for over 12 hours. We are fine on gas but is anyone near on the road and might happen to have any food or some water?”}}}
I’m thinking nasty words here.
You can remember that damned smart phone for Facebook, but not food and water in your car?? It’s called a BOB.
Not me on facebook, the comment from facebook.
JayJay, if they lost the internet, it would be TEOTWAWKI for them.
This remark from a mother in a car tweeting on fb for food and water pissed me off so badly, I was fighting mad.
It showed where her priorities were. Shoot, no snacks or drinks in the child’s bag??
And even if they were eaten, she should have prepared better for a long wait in that car.
Does she not read a paper, watch the news and see disasters happening all around??
Sorry–rant over. geeze, louise.
New ‘R.I.P.’ bullet hailed as ‘one-shot man-stopper’
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2014/jan/28/georgia-maker-bills-new-bullet-one-shot-manstopper/
totally unrelated to topic
but of interest
looks like this is only in 9mm currently
but they are developing it in multiple other calibers
including a shotgun slut
check out the video
Radically Invasive Projectile: The Last Round You Will Ever Need
http://rethinksurvival.com/posts/radically-invasive-projectile-link/
A shotgun slut? More than a little interesting.
I would like to see a picture of the shotgun slut.
What religion do you think dr siegel is?
This is long, but it tells of the youth of our day, and how one man can change at least one youngster to the better….
Please take the time
to read this. I wanted to hurry up and read it, but God slowed me down
and I read the whole thing. Guess what, God does what God always does,
he blessed me and now it is your turn to be blessed.
Carl was a quiet man. He didn’t talk much. He would always greet you with a
big smile and a firm handshake.
Even after living in our neighborhood for over 50 years, no one could really
say they knew him very well.
Before his retirement, he took the bus to work each morning. The lone sight
of him walking down the street often worried us.
He had a slight limp from a bullet wound received in WWII.
Watching him, we worried that although he had survived WWII, he may not make
it through our changing uptown neighborhood with its ever-increasing random
violence, gangs, and drug activity.
When he saw the flyer at our local church asking for volunteers for caring
for the gardens behind the minister’s residence, he responded in his
characteristically unassuming manner. Without fanfare, he just signed up.
He was well into his 87th year when the very thing we had always feared
finally happened.
He was just finishing his watering for the day when three gang members
approached him. Ignoring their attempt to intimidate him, he simply asked,
“Would you like a drink from the hose?”
The tallest and toughest-looking of the three said, “Yeah, sure,”
with a malevolent little smile.
As Carl offered the hose to him, the other two grabbed Carl’s arm, throwing
him down. As the hose snaked crazily over the ground, dousing everything in
its way, Carl’s assailants stole his retirement watch and his wallet, and
then fled.
Carl tried to get himself up, but he had been thrown down on his bad leg. He
lay there trying to gather himself as the minister came running to help him.
Although the minister had witnessed the attack from his window, he couldn’t
get there fast enough to stop it.
“Carl, are you okay? Are you hurt?” the minister kept asking as he
helped Carl to his feet.
Carl just passed a hand over his brow and sighed, shaking his head.
“Just some punk kids. I hope they’ll wise-up someday.”
His wet clothes clung to his slight frame as he bent to pick up the hose. He
adjusted the nozzle again and started to water.
Confused and a little concerned, the minister asked, “Carl, what are you
doing?”
“I’ve got to finish my watering. It’s been very dry lately,” came
the calm reply.
Satisfying himself that Carl really was all right, the minister could only
marvel. Carl was a man from a different time and place.
A few weeks later the three returned. Just as before their threat was
unchallenged. Carl again offered them a drink from his hose.
This time they didn’t rob him.. They wrenched the hose from his hand and
drenched him head to foot in the icy water.
When they had finished their humiliation of him, they sauntered off down the
street, throwing catcalls and curses, falling over one another laughing at
the hilarity of what they had just done.
Carl just watched them. Then he turned toward the warmth giving sun, picked
up his hose, and went on with his watering.
The summer was quickly fading into fall. Carl was doing some tilling when he
was startled by the sudden approach of someone behind him. He stumbled and
fell into some evergreen branches.
As he struggled to regain his footing, he turned to see the tall leader of
his summer tormentors reaching down for him. He braced himself for the
expected attack.
“Don’t worry old man, I’m not going to hurt you this time.”
The young man spoke softly, still offering the tattooed and scarred hand to
Carl. As he helped Carl get up, the man pulled a crumpled bag from his pocket
and handed it to Carl.
“What’s this?” Carl asked. “It’s your stuff,” the man
explained. “It’s your stuff back. Even the money in your wallet.”
“I don’t understand,” Carl said. “Why would you help me
now?”
The man shifted his feet, seeming embarrassed and ill at ease. “I
learned something from you,” he said. “I ran with that gang and
hurt people like you. We picked you because you were old and we knew we could
do it But every time we came and did something to you, instead of yelling and
fighting back, you tried to give us a drink. You didn’t hate us for hating
you. You kept showing love against our hate.”
He stopped for a moment. “I couldn’t sleep after we stole your stuff, so
here it is back.”
He paused for another awkward moment, not knowing what more there was to say.
“That bag’s my way of saying thanks for straightening me out, I
guess.” And with that, he walked off down the street.
Carl looked down at the sack in his hands and gingerly opened it. He took out
his retirement watch and put it back on his wrist.. Opening his wallet, he
checked for his wedding photo. He gazed for a moment at the young bride that
still smiled back at him from all those years ago.
He died one cold day after Christmas that winter. Many people attended his
funeral in spite of the weather.
In particular the minister noticed a tall young man that he didn’t know
sitting quietly in a distant corner of the church.
The minister spoke of Carl’s garden as a lesson in life.
In a voice made thick with unshed tears, he said, “Do your best and make
your garden as beautiful as you can. We will never forget Carl and his
garden.”
The following spring another flyer went up. It read: “Person needed to
care for Carl’s garden.”
The flyer went unnoticed by the busy parishioners until one day when a knock
was heard at the minister’s office door.
Opening the door, the minister saw a pair of scarred and tattooed hands
holding the flyer. “I believe this is my job, if you’ll have me,”
the young man said.
The minister recognized him as the same young man who had returned the stolen
watch and wallet to Carl.
He knew that Carl’s kindness had turned this man’s life around. As the
minister handed him the keys to the garden shed, he said, “Yes, go take
care of Carl’s garden and honor him.”
The man went to work and, over the next several years, he tended the flowers
and vegetables just as Carl had done.
During that time, he went to college, got married, and became a prominent
member of the community. But he never forgot his promise to Carl’s memory and
kept the garden as beautiful as he thought Carl would have kept it.
One day he approached the new minister and told him that he couldn’t care for
the garden any longer. He explained with a shy and happy smile, “My wife
just had a baby boy last night, and she’s bringing him home on
Saturday..”
“Well, congratulations!” said the minister, as he was handed the
garden shed keys. “That’s wonderful! What’s the baby’s name?”
“Carl,” he replied.
See, I don’t always have to post jokes…
If this did not hit you hard, you have no soul…
Thanks eppe for the story.
epppe,
Beautiful post! Thank you!
The article and many comments reminded me of simpler times.
I received this in an email.
Practical Parents
I grew up in the 60s/70s with practical parents. A
mother, God love her, who washed aluminum foil after
she cooked in it, then reused it. She was the original
recycle queen, before they had a Name for it…
A father who was happier getting old shoes fixed than
buying new ones. Their marriage was good, their dreams focused.
Their best friends lived barely a wave away. I can see them now, Dad in trousers, tee shirt and a hat and Mom in a house dress, lawn mower in one hand, and dish-towel in the other. It was the time for fixing things. A curtain rod, the kitchen radio, screen door, the oven
door, the hem in a dress. Things we keep.
It was a way of life, and sometimes it made me crazy.
All that re-fixing, eating, renewing, I wanted just once to be wasteful. Waste meant affluence. Throwing things away meant you knew there’d always be more.
Sometimes, what we care about most gets all used up and goes away…never to return.
So… while we have it… it’s best we love it…. and care for it… and fix it when it’s broken…… and heal it when it’s sick.
This is true… for marriage…..and old cars….and
children with bad report cards…..and dogs with bad hips….and aging parents…..and grandparents.
We keep them because they are worth it, because we are worth it. Some things we keep. Like a best friend that moved away or a classmate we grew up with.
There are just some things that make life important, like people we know who are special…..and so, we keep them close!
Good friends are like stars…You don’t always see them, but you know they are always there. Keep them close!
KY Mom, AMEN to your comments. Thank you for that.
Eppe, a very touching and fitting story. thank you for sharing it with us.
And is this true or fiction. Just curious.
Hell, you should spank you wife as well. These hos are so disobedient these days. Demanding free birth control. Raging libidos. But a firm hand keeps em in line.
I hope everybody here would spank me hard and often. I can’t speak to what keeps women in line because I’m deathly afraid of them. Do you think they’ll let me in at the white house to twerk for bambi?
Stop using my screen name troll.
I’m just the right side of our brain counteracting the left side troll.
@ Eisenkruez
OK, I’m intrigued.
The left side of the brain is the deuche bag, and the Right side has some cogent thoughts but is a scared little mama’s boy. Braveheart doesn’t like either one, it seems, and the only way the two of you can interact is through the comments section of SHTFPlan.com.
Medication won’t help.
Pull the suppository out, do what it takes to expel the shit the two of you are full of, and start acting like a mature person.
No, wait! Forget it! If you do that, the entertainment value goes away.
As usual, I’ve wasted everyone’s time. Sorry.
WTF? What?
What?, you caused me to choke on a snack I was having. No you didn’t waste anyone’s time. eisen is the one who is a waste.
what?, BTW, I’m not interested in eisen, period!
LOL……
oh….my stomach hurts…..
PKLL
If Barack has any human decency at all, he’ll sign an EO forbidding Meshall from twerking.
I wouldn’t touch you unless I was in a HAZMAT suit.
And it could bring you a domestic violence charge.
Parents are well placed to teach discipline responsibility and respect after destroying the country. Maybe the kids should be beating the parents.
You are an ass Eisen!
Eisen, if you’re talking about politicians, banksters, i.e. TPTB, OK, I’ll definitely agree with that. But I know damned well people like us are NOT out here destroying this country. Plus, it sounds like you never had any legitimate discipline as a child. You definitely don’t know what respect is, insulting old people like you do; I don’t like your comments about women either.
I remember the Hot Wheels Track as a kid.
My brother was the dumb one though he was introduced to it much more than me.
If you spank your kids your a terrorist…
🙂
eisen is that you?
gee wiz I was just making a funny..
hard crowd today…
Hot Wheels Track??? And all along, I thought my mother was the only one that used Hot Wheels Tracks for butt whoopings. Must admit, dad did break a belt on my butt, I think that just made him madder. And yes, he did go get another one to finish the job.
Those hot wheel tracks also left two welts at a time, if held right, got my share of welts too…
My grandmother “Mawmaw” used to make me go and cut a weeping willow switch, if was not to her liking, had to get another, and another till she was satisified…
Had me hopping and skipping for whatever was the offense!
Dang I miss her….
Still got the Mongoose and Snake cars, buttons, parachutes, etc…
Rare to find them nowdays….
Since I am stuck at home here are a few brain teasers, if you have seen them, remember many have not…
FOR LEXOPHILES…VERY CLEVER
A bicycle can’t stand alone;
it is two tired.
A will is a dead giveaway.
Time flies like an arrow;
fruit flies like a banana.
A backward poet writes inverse.
A chicken crossing the road is poultry in motion.
When a clock is hungry it goes back four seconds.
The guy who fell onto an upholstery machine is now fully recovered.
You are stuck with your debt if you can’t budge it.
He broke into song because he couldn’t find the key.
A calendar’s days are numbered.
A boiled egg is hard to beat.
He had a photographic memory which never developed.
The short fortune teller who escaped from prison was a small medium at large.
Those who get too big for their britches will be exposed in the end.
When you’ve seen one shopping centre,
you’ve seen a mall.
If you jump off a bridge in Paris,
you are in Seine.
When she saw her first strands of grey hair,
she thought she’d dye.
Santa’s little helpers are subordinate clauses.
Acupuncture is a jab well done.
The roundest knight at King Arthur’s round table was Sir Cumference,
Who acquired his size from too much pi.
I thought I saw an eye doctor on an Alaskan island,
but it turned out to be an optical Aleutian.
She was only a whiskey maker,
but he loved her still.
No matter how much you push the envelope,
it’ll still be stationery.
A dog gave birth to puppies near the road and was prosecuted for littering.
Two silk-worms had a race;
the result was a tie.
Atheism is a non-prophet organization.
I wondered why the football kept getting bigger.
Then it hit me.
A sign on the lawn at a drug rehabilitation centre said ‘Keep off the Grass.’
Old soldiers who survived mustard gas and pepper spray are now seasoned veterans,
Don’t join dangerous cults;
practice safe sects.
When the girl backed into a plane propeller, dis assed her.
The opthamalogist fell into his lens grinder and made a spectecal of himself.
In the good old days, herass was two words.
If the universe is a vacuum, it’s partly because this world sucks.
When I bring home my paycheck, it’s like the acadamy awards. My wife says “May I have the envelope, please?”
Eppe, I’ve actually heard about half of those as a kid. thanks, that’s a real treasure.
My mom Never disciplined me–but she told dad what the offense was when he got home.
My dads aim was off sometimes and he would get me in the lower back. That didn’t feel to good. If we didn’t cry when mom whooped us then for sure when dad got home we would get it
Define spanking for me.
These young boys and young men were ‘spanked’ for
minor, minor infractions.
http://thewhitehouseboysonline.com/
http://news.wfsu.org/post/more-bodies-found-dozier-bittersweet-moment-white-house-boys
http://news.wfsu.org/post/more-bodies-found-dozier-bittersweet-moment-white-house-boys
Pediophiles flock to Florida and do whatever they want.
In Florida, Pediophiles cannot be touched.
What these boys and young men went through at the White House back in the late 50’s and early 60’s is horrendous.
The State of Florida should be held accountable for looking the other way, when the whippings and other acts of atrocity were taking place.
I pray for the victims, the survivors, and the victims families. I want justice for each and every one of them.
If spanking worked, my wife would have stopped being naughty a long time ago. Oops, I’ve said too much
The drumbeat of propaganda against children being disciplined by their parents might seem to make no sense at first. In my experience, the first thing to do is to ask the age old question “qui bono?” meaning “who benefits?” Well let’s ask ourselves that question, and look at it honestly. Out of all the people in the world, which group would benefit from everyone else having their children turn against them? Who benefits from the chaos that results? Who benefits from having other people trash their own rules and tear down their own civilizations? Wouldn’t it be a group that thinks they are “special” and somehow “better” than everyone else? A group that is convinced of their own superiority? A group that regards all other people as being “just animals”? A group that feels itself to be a “master race”?
Now ask yourself, what group is “Benjamin Siegel, M.D., chair of the AAP’s Committee on Psychosocial Aspects of Child and Family Health” a part of? Was it the very same group as Dr. Benjamin Spock? How about the people who run the IRS, the agency tasked with taking SO DAMNED MUCH OF EVERYONE’S MONEY that all other people are “too busy working two jobs to give a child the single most thing they crave”? Remember that smug pompous ass Lois Lerner? You know, the bitch who testified before Congress that somehow its “ok” for the IRS to be sicced on Tea Party groups? What “group” is she part of… is it the same group as Doctors Siegel and Spock? How about the Treasury Department, where the money stolen from everyone else is kept; it was led by Timothy Geithner and is now led by Jacob Lew… what group are THEY part of? How’s about pigs like “Nanny” Bloomberg, Chuck Schumer and Dianne Feinstein, who are ALL leading the charge against parents being able to defend their children with firearms; what “group” are THEY part of? Ask yourself this: will that trio of whores leave THEMSELVES defenseless? Whoops, that’s right, THEY have armed bodyguards. Because THEY are “special”. THEY are part of a “special group”.
I don’t claim to have all the answers, but I WILL keep asking the right questions.
HOLY SHIT! The NWO does not want me to beat my sweet, innocent child! I had no idea it was the barrage of propaganda that was preventing me from physically intimidating my defenseless child. Those sneaky bastards! This whole time I thought it was because I was concerned about her physical and emotional well-being!
The only question you should be asking is if the frontal lobotomy that was performed on you is reversible. Answer: IT IS NOT!!
The thing that is most amusing about this ridiculous article and the range of comments is the fact that the majority of you nitwits THINK that you are “independent” thinkers who have been freed from the herd of sheeple. Well, let me be the one to break the bad news to you morons. You are merely a different herd of sheeple suffering from a slightly different type of stupid.
I too got my ass cracked as a kid. And, when I did, I deserved it. And, I am grateful for it. And, yea, Hot Wheels got my bottom burned. Along with the paddle with the ball on it. Mom never said no to me if I wanted a new paddle with a ball. She just re-purposed the paddle after the string broke. Wished I could remember where I buried all my old Hot Wheels though.
“The American Academy of Pediatrics urges parents not to resort to any sort of corporal punishment or spanking under any circumstance. “There’s no reason to get physical with a child when other discipline tactics are more effective,” says Benjamin Siegel, M.D., chair of the AAP’s Committee on Psychosocial Aspects of Child and Family Health.”
If you want a liberal to believe something, tell them, “Studies have shown…”
If you want a conservative to believe something, tell them, “The BIBLE says…”
“He that spareth his rod hateth his son: but he that loveth him chasteneth him betimes.”
Proverbs 13:24
Amen Colonel, my girls turned out great, only because they knew what would happen if they did NOT do what we asked, and they HONOR what we say. They know we have been around awhile, and know that everything we tell them is the truth. We do not sugarcoat the truth either….
I got whipped with a belt as a child for minor offenses. It was at the hands of a stepfather, a man I hated my entire childhood. This continued into my early teen years. If the man was at work, we kids had to kneel in the hall facing the wall until he came home to administer the punishment. Something as small as reaching accross the dinner table to get food would get us beaten. When both parents were gone from the house, we were not allowed to leave the house for any reason. This fake father demanded to be called sir. I don’t believe physical punishment does children any good, quite the opposite.
Im sorry for the abuse you took in the name of discipline…some people are just mini tyrants on the job or in a household,just their true nature coming out…I was spanked as a kid…had to spank mine a couple of times…I was not abused nor did I abuse…spanking has to be done fairly and sparingly and never used except in a last resort manner for major defiance or harm…always will be people who don’t know the difference twixt abuse and discipline,some of them like I said are just on a powertrip…they need disciplined themselves….
How are you disciplined?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lbcrZRAFhpI
Repost of a golden oldie.
Michael C Ruppert is a very decent man who let this collapse shit consume him. His fears of SHTF destroyed his entire life. Dont forget to enjoy the good times while they last.
I meant to say gay times.
Stop it troll
Maybe I could if you would get our fuckin meds already.
The problem with today’s kids is, not that they need a spanking, they need their parents attention and time.
All I see are parents who go to a restaurant, sit their kids down with the ipad and play movies for them without teaching them how to behave properly. The pacify them with candy, or whatever else they want so that they will behave.
I see parents with their cell phones glued to their heads while their kids are screaming for their attention. Parents sitting at their computers for hours while the kids are off playing video games for hours on end or in front of the tv watching trash.
I see families not eating dinner together at the table, eating in separate rooms in front of computers or tv, most of it being fast food each night, no good and healthy meals.
I see parents who don’t care what their kids are doing at school or what they are learning. They treat school like it’s the baby sitter. They take no interest in their studies.
A lot of parents are into trouble themselves, never grew up, wanting hand outs, doing drugs, in trouble with the law.
I honestly don’t believe the problems kids have now are lack of spanking, it’s lack of love and attention.
There’s no God in most families now. There’s no prayer, no teachings of the bible and no church. People are disconnected from the Lord. Many people live completely in touch with technology but not whats important.
I was spanked as a child, and as I grew into a teenager my mother and grandmother, whom raised me cause my dad ran off when I was a baby, were strict with me. I thank God they were strict with me too. They didn’t let me run around, party, drink, hang with the wrong crowd, etc.
They got me involved in various activities that kept me busy.
I think that’s part of the reason I didn’t stray over into hanging with the kids that were always in trouble. I always had something positive to do. My mother took me to church and kept God central in our lives.
I’ve managed to raise two daughters without spanking them and they are good kids, responsible and never into trouble.
Thank you, Anonymous Patriot! I agree!
My foster mom (a former lieutenant in the Navy) was REAL strict!! but she never abused us– not ever!! (No whippings, no verbal abuse… she was a great woman!)
For people who think its OK to physically abuse kids, there’s a book called, “The Gift of Fear” (excellent book!) which tells about how to avoid becoming a victim. It says the best way to avoid becoming a victim of parental assault is to be a good parent. It tells the story of this woman who pushed her son against a stove and burned him severly and did other similar abuses against him. When he grew up, she always hid in the bathroom whenever he was in town. Finally, he killed her and her husband.
My mother (single) beat my tail, 1/2 the time nope it was not deserved, just taught me to steer clear of her….but man, she could whip off a flip flop in a heartbeat, and beat my ass quicker than a minute lol…..sometimes the ass whipping did me good…sometimes not. But I did remember not to do the act again….at least not get caught!
My son has been whipped say maybe 4 or 5 times in his 10 years….and he can tell you every one of them….and we have yet to have a repeat offender.. lighten up folks, we need to be respectful of others to teach them to be the same…no need to be nasty at each other…we may need each other in some form or another someday…. love the article….
Sometimes it’s nice to get a new perspective and read up on different topics…sometimes it’s nice to smile and laugh even giggle at others take on issues like this….sometimes..
Country Doodle
Good on you Joe…….NEXT!
I think one of the biggest problems is that a lot of parents want to be friends with their kids, that’s not your job ( that comes later) your kids have enough friends, they dont need you as their friend, they need you as a parent,your job is to teach them right from wrong, teach values, morals and to be able to stand on their own to feet when their older and yeah spank them when needed !!!!
Loulou, AMEN to your comments. It’s up to the parents to be parents and raise their kids properly, not someone else. Back in the 90s, Hillary Clinton claimed that “it takes a village to raise a child”. I have always and still call bullshit with a CAPITAL BS on that. Once the parents have taught them one thing, nobody else has any damned business trying to teach the kids anything contrary to what the parents have taught.
I remember once all three of us(myself and my two younger brothers, although we were only 16 months apart…that’s the way you had kids here in Appalachia; bang, bang, bang get it over with!) got in a mess of trouble one summer day. Mom told us to go down to the woodline and get our own switches. I found a young sourwood which made for fine switches. My middle brother and I got one from that sapling. Little brother on the other hand though he would be a smartalek and carried back to the house a dead oak limb about an inch in diameter. He got it twice as bad…mom used my switch on him.
It is prepping. My parents weren’t the best in the world, and they really fell flat when we became teenagers, but when we were young we were taught the mountain way; to treat everyone with respect and to understand, as my great aunt used to say, “It ain’t all about you!” They were “prepping” us to be responsible young men.
I did that once, brought in a dead branch, got the worst whooping ever, learned a lesson though…
DO NOT PROVOKE YOUR ELDERS, IT JUST MAKES IT WORSE…
**that’s the way you had kids here in Appalachia**
It’s not exclusive to Appalachia.
Mom just turned 21 when she had the 4th and last!!
A 4 yr. old, a 2 1/2 yr. old, a 1 yr. 2 months, and a newborn.
Whew…and you want to know why she didn’t use explanations and disappointed faces and time out?? Geeze!
I disagree with spanking. Not here to judge how someone else chooses to punish their child. If you want respect from your child, show them respect, love, and who’s the boss. You can be kind and friendly to your children but while your bringing them up you are not their friend. That will take place when their adults.
Your children are a gift given to you by God (the Universe) and need to be treated as such.
That being said: Yes, punishment and consequences are absolutely necessary for the growth, maturity and safe landing into adulthood. My choices worked beautifully.
P.S. I also would never hit my dog, again, other alternatives. Works!
God isn’t the universe. God is God, the Prime Mover whom created the universe. I respect your decision not to spank, though.
Maybe a more effective disciplinary action for todays kids is to remove ALL electronic crap from their lives and place a book in their hands!
I have punched a horse in the snout, and he never pulled the stupidity that he did in the first place. Like Mongo in “Blazing Saddles”. He sure did respect me afterwards, to the point he stopped cribbing. Look it up, or Google it…
You must be one of those bleeding hearts from Kaliforikia…
I physically disciplined all five of my kids. I can count on one hand the total number of spankings they received when they were kids. When I was a kid my mother washed my mouth out with Ivory soap for being disrespectful and my dad busted my tail with his belt. I can count on three fingers the total number of spankings I received when I was a kid. Corporal punishment is necessary to teach discipline, respect and that there is an action for their wrongdoing(s). All of my kids are grown now and the two oldest have children of their own. Not one of my kids ever got into trouble with the law; no drugs, no abusing alcohol and they all love their parents. The kids I see these days that get put in a “time out corner” have grown up to be rejects to society and break the law. I know that isn’t “all” kids but it sure is a mess of em!
Spare the Rod, Spoil the Child.
Hated the LAVA soap, bad tasting…
Fels-Naptha was worse though.
Ugh, these old school folks who can’t think beyond their generational beliefs. To spank just because “that’s what your parents did” is the easy way out. It is just repeating patterns from generations before without questioning them, or thinking.
I agree parent’s should have the right to decide to do it, but seriously, haven’t we grown as a society. Do we still need to exert violence on children who are 5 times smaller than us? What does that really teach them? It’s OK to hit people who are helpless and can’t fight back? Kids learn from watching what you do, not from what you say.
And no, I’m not a liberal pirus driving Obama supporter. However, I have learned to think for myself. I have learned to question traditions and beliefs, because there is always a better way to do things.
My dad never had to spank me. Why? I respected him. He never had to say a word. His peaceful presence was reflected back through me. He made me want to be a better person because I wanted to be like him, peaceful and hard working. Children always reflect back their parents issues, so if your child is exhibiting bad behaviors you may want to look in the mirror. Where did they learn these things?
My mom was the opposite, forceful and a “do what I say or else” person. I fought back with her. Her own drama and violence came right back to her through me. My dad however, he couldn’t stand to spank me. When my mom asked him to, he would barely tap me. It didn’t matter, because just the thought of disappointing him made me straighten up.
It’s about time people start taking responsibility for themselves and their children. Children are only reflecting back your own issues, and spanking isn’t going to change that.
“Children are only reflecting back your own issues, and spanking isn’t going to change that.”
What hogwash! You’re either not male or haven’t raised any males. I can assure you my brothers and I didn’t need any “adult reflection of issues” to find a reason to be little hellions. The kids next door in the neighborhood I grew up in had “soft” parents…”Vincent, please don’t do that”, “Sandy, please don’t do that”. Vincent’s been in prison 4 times and Sandy is dead from and OD.
The “civil” approach doesn’t work with extremely strong-willed kids.
No one said to talk like a pussy, wncmountain! You can be firm– VERY FIRM with your kids, WITHOUT resorting to violence!!
The only thing you make a case for is forced sterilization!
Yep! Its all about Love. And love and violence are antithecal. If one occassionally spanks their kids, I don’t think its that big a deal. However, hitting is not discipline.
Well, shoot. I’ll get in on this one. For all you time outers.
Mom:Don’t ever stick a fork in that outlet there, Johnny.
Johnny thinking: Heck, I am just gonna sit in time out for 10 minutes. Now where is that fork?
And she used a firm voice said the visitors at Johnny’s funeral.
A parent needs to determine what their kids like the least. I would take a whooping over a week in my bedroom anytime. My older daughter got spanked once and was so embarrassed she never got to the point where it was needed again. My younger daughter would cry if we indicated we were disappointed in her.
I`ll assume for the sake of argument that your handle is genuine. You are living proof that standardized tests in any fashion have zero correlation with intrinsic intelligence! But you go right ahead and continue living in a world of comforting illusion.
“Please spank your kids”… especially when they are enrolled in the public school system. We need more government dependent fodder, and we’re just looking for any excuse to part you from your custody.
This public service announcement brought to you by the Department of Children’s Services (Waffen SS logo).
I disagree with spanking too because they used to beat he living piss out of me when I was a kid for the least little thing or nothing at all. I got it at home and I got it at school too.
I’m in my 40’s now and all it takes is for someone to use an aggressive & authoritarian tone with me and it’s all I can do to walk away from them instead of tearing them to tiny little pieces.
The anger and hate never go away.
“The anger and hate never go away”
That is your choice.
Beating the hell out of someone is one thing and agreeably bad, but spanking is necessary and most of us grew up with spanking, not abuse. It is amazing that the CA courts agreed with the mom because people in that state are hypersensitive retards and look for any excuse for the state to intervene in family life and take a kid away from their parents. Californians don’t believe in discipline, they believe in psychotherapy for kids and letting the kids run the house. You should see it for yourself. No wonder this country is falling into the hands of a bunch of feminine girly men freaks.
@SHTFPLAN JUST ‘JUMPED THE SHARK’ FOR ME … WTF @MAC ??? YOU ARE NOW ADVOCATING THE PARENTAL PHYSICAL ABUSE TERRORIZING OF DEFENSELESS CHILDREN ???
@Joe Wurzelbacher is a F*ckin Ignorant Sadistic Coward Bully and Child Molester .
YEAH THAT’S RIGHT I SAID IT … A PHYSICAL MENTAL CHILD ABUSER MOLESTER !!!
* it is very UNNECESSARY to lay ones hand upon a child in any form of violence or psychological intimidation creating fear within the child , and if one does they should be prosecuted PUNISHED to the full extent of the law and receive the same ABUSIVE treatment EYE FOR AN EYE in the public town square by a 300 pound man named ‘Bubba the Executioner’ .
PRO PSYCHOLOGICAL case study after case study has proven just how psychologically destructive it is to a child’s DEVELOPING psychi / mind , AND UN-NECESSARY to lay ones hand of violence upon a child FOR ANY REASON .
ALL IT DOES IS SHOW JUST HOW IGNORANT STUPID DUMB THE PARENT IS !
IT’S ALWAYS AMAZES ME – ‘YOU NEED TO GO TO SCHOOL TAKE A WRITTEN KNOWLEDGE TEST AND PHYSICAL TEST TO GET A LICENSE TO DRIVE A CAR , BUT NOT TO RAISE A HUMAN BEING CHILD !’
@Joe Wurzelbacher is a F*ckin Ignorant Sadistic Coward Bully and Child Molester .
n.o. ;0p
Why do abusers enjoy abusing others?
In: Abusive Relationships and Domestic Violence, Sexual Abuse, Human Behavior
Answer:
Abusers enjoy abusing others because the abuser likes the control they have over the abused. Meaning, when they are hitting a man/woman/child/etc, they feel powerful and controlling, which is what they want. The abusers are usually people who crave control in their life and know they can have it by abusing others who are “weaker”, not only physically but mentally. This is especially true when it comes to men abusing women (which is more often); the man wants the control over the woman, so he beats her, some men even get pleasure out of it, some men are just raised to feel that women are no better than dirt and should be treated as such, sometimes its in the culture, etc. It all boils down to how they are raised. If they grew up in an environment that had abuse in it (mental, physical, emotional, etc) they are most likely to grow up and show signs of that. Overall, its all about control with those people.
Miley needs a spanking. Bad girl.
ME ME PICK ME!!
Although there’s not really much there to spank ‘:P
Well the only thing I can say is spar the rod spoil the child!!!!!!
If I had a dime for every wet I had on my Butt I could have retired when I was 40 years old. I had each and every one coming.
I spanked my kids and all of my kids came out just fine.
Disciplining a child by swatting them on the but hurts a good parent more that the child.
You folks will have to make up your own minds on this but this how I feel.
A.S.M.S.
Sgt.
Good evening, Sarge. I have to agree. I was spanked only twice as a kid and I deserved it both times. afterward, I turned into a great child and thanked my parents later on for it. Yes, there are times when it’s necessary if you want your kids to turn out right.
‘joe the ignorant child abusing plumber’, should just stick to plumbing !
n.o. ;0p
http://joeforamerica.com/contact_joe/
Background on Child Abuse
The Basics
Every year, approximately 3.3 million reports of child abuse, involving almost 6 million children, are made in the United States. Child abuse is described as the physical, emotional or sexual mistreatment of a child. It is horrifying how common this is.
More than five children die every day as a result of extreme child abuse.
Approximately 80 percent of the children that die from child abuse are under the age of 4.
More than 90 percent of child abuse victims know their perpetrators in some way, whether they are family members, friends, or trusted individuals like teachers or coaches .
14 percent of all males in US prisons were abused at some point in their childhood, and 36 percent of all women in prison were abused during their childhood.
Children whose parents abuse alcohol and other drugs are three times more likely to be abused and four times more likely to be neglected than children from families with no alcohol or drug abuse.
see link …
What does this have to do with spanking?
Are there really this many people in the world who can’t tell discipline from abuse?
As a parent I reserved spanking as a tool to condition a response over life-threatening actions; do not run out in traffic, do not put objects into power outlets, etc. It was always used as an adjunct, not an alternative to education. Maybe my family is from the shallow end of the gene pool but I never even met anyone who was capable of abstract reasoning and combined it with effective impulse control at the age of two.
I guess some people just have superiority all over me.
Intellectual superiority? Absolutely! Clearly someone beat the critical thinking skills out of you a long time ago! And as history has demonstrated quite clearly, you now wield the stupid stick on your children repeating the cycle.
And as history has demonstrated quite clearly, you now wield the stupid stick on your children repeating the cycle.
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-History has shown this quite clearly- how?
By your intellectual inability to recognize irony, perhaps?
Possibly by my refusal to let hysterical naivety control the safety and security of my family? Maybe by my refusal to give-in to public pressure and endanger my child by accepting unproven, “feel-good” , theoretical changes in child-rearing practice from those those with neither interest nor experience in raising children?
You better go back and look up the word “irony” dumbass! It was, indeed, an accurate self-assessment of your primitive and narrow-minded thought processes.
It seems that the most important thing you “refuse” to do is engage in any type of introspection. The sad fact of the matter is that you child hitters are clueless and there is nothing that is going to change your warped little minds.
If you tried to “discipline” someone else`s child, they would throw you in jail. OH, BUT THAT`S DIFFERENT! It is only different if you look at your child as your PROPERTY to do with as you please. They are merely tiny human beings trying to make sense of the world around them. They need love, affection and guidance…NOT intimidation.
Let me make myself perfectly clear to you and all the other dolts. DISCIPLINE in the form of physical or verbal abuse IS abuse! And if you respectfully disagree, it is because you are almost certainly a knuckle dragging Neanderthal hopelessly stuck in an archaic epoch!
I PITY YOUR CHILDREN!!!!!!
So says the expert using verbal abuse to impose their view on those who have more experience.
Bravo!! Some things need the response now, the reason can be taught later.
I,m 58 and mom still spanks me. Just kidding. in most cases the punishment was to correct bad behavior and not done in anger. There may have been a better way, but it was not talked about then. We had loving parents and we respected what they told us. Wnc mountainboy, anywhere near Brevard?
Very close…between Fletcher and Mills River, approx. 15 miles from Brevard. Have done some mountain biking in Pisgah, trout fish in Davidson, camped at Davidson River Campground most of my life. These days the wife and I like to visit Dugans Pub in Brevard…great burgers and Irish dishes, and Guiness on tap! Also, the new Oskar Blues brewery is the Colorado Brewery’s east coast headquarters.
We are practically neighbors. Nice to chat with you. Dugan’s pub is the wife’s favorite place to grab a burger. Good luck and nice chatting with you.
Ditto! I got a good BOL picked out up in the Forest if the need arises. May the Lord bless you and yours.
Maybe we will meet up for a beer and burger sometime. Would be cool.
Does whippin work? Hell no.
I was whipped with a belt bare assed regularly for nuthin. I was stood in the corner days on end. I was grounded to my room for weeks on end…no call to supper, I snuck down for food at night. My mother took the scissors to my hair and cut big hunks out of it. I went to grade school like that.
I ran away often. At 17 I got kicked out and never went back.
I was an IV crank user at 19. I was an alcoholic for 20 years. I was a heroin addict for 3 years and on methadone treatment for 9 years.
The only “law” I respect is natural law and the laws of thermodynamics.
But I turned out just fine.
I agree whole heartedly with this article. I’m 31, and I got spanked PLENTY of times. Between me and my sister growing up, I was the one headed down the wrong path. Low and behold, my sister who got off easy with the discipline end of things, well she ended up need more “correcting” during her teens and early 20’s…. Sounds crazy, but I attribute the results on each of our respective ends, to be due to disciplining via spankings along with other forms of punishment.
So now, as opposed to them, I’m all for it! ……when I decide to have kids 🙂
Joe the plumber got called for not having a plumbing license and he replied, it’s only a piece of paper. Let’s see, not really a plumber meaning no formal training or proof of skill set. A lot like someone in the White house.
When the Bullets start flying through my home, I will be sure to remember to ask the shooter’s, if they were spanked by their parents.
This really pissed me off, I normally agree with 99% of what is posted here, but I just couldnt keep my mouth shut on this one. Spanking or physically or emotionally harming your child is the worst possible thing you could do to them. It is the single leading cause of future violent behavior and criminal activity and drug abuse. This is one of the big areas I have issue with many religious Right leaning people. let me ask, is it ok to hit your wife or husband? No, so why the fuck are children any different. Of all people they are the ones who cannot defend themselves, a wife who is beaten can leave, a child cannot leave his abusive parents, and yes SPANKING IS ABUSE
Why the fuck do you people think it is not ok to use violence to teach people things when they are adults but it is perfectly fine to hit an underdeveloped person who is a 1/3 your size and strength.
it is people like this that this world a shitty place to live
LEAVE YOUR FUCKIN KIDS ALONE
My kids don’t do that, you foulmouthed twit.
Oh, bullshit, JON. I am not violent, I do not exhibit criminal behavior, or am I a drug, alcohol, or nicotine abuser and I got my butt spanked, whipped, and discipline was part of my childhood.
Oh, wait!! Guess who is the drug addict??
Would it be the baby sister that never got corrected or spanked??
From a public school teacher and I could tell you on day 2 of each new year which were disciplined or not.
For adults, we have the jail system. You really are not smart, are you, JON???
Discipline is used on children to keep them out of the jail system.
DUH!!
Apparently we now have it for children too. How many reports have you seen in the last few years of 6,7,and 8 year old kids being turned over to the police by the schools for pointing fingers at each other while playing, or for chewing their pastry into a ragged-edge triangle, or for having in their possession a piece of folded paper given to them by their grandfather- because the teachers felt it was a threatening situation and ANY discipline (except by the LEO) was automatically termed abuse?
Jon, how have you managed to get thru life without ever receiving any legitimate discipline?
A lot of emotion, a lot of noise, but unable to differentiate between discipline and abuse.
And anything can be interpreted as abuse by anyone these days. Hell, I read a report that stated Enforced Isolation (time out) was psychologically harmful. Then what method do you use?
I know a woman who was abused as a kid. She refused to discipline her kids. At all, in any way or form.
They had no respect for her, treated her like a cardboard cutout that they could do anything they wanted to, swore at her, hit her. All three beat her up at various points, the boy quite badly, and the older girl stabbed her.
She told the police the usual excuses- walking into doors, falling on the knife etc, because she still refused to accept they needed discipline and didn’t want them to face the consequences for their actions. The older two left home and are now either in or have been to jail- drugs and violence, the younger one is on the same path.
And this is the same route you want us all to follow?
Don’t usually agree with ol’ joe plumber, but I did get my butt spanked when I deserved it. And more importantly, got threatened with it a lot more, which usually did the trick.
Funny, now I do what I’m supposed to.
And anybody calls my momma an abuser, I will personally come and whoop your ass, and show you abuse.
I’m sorry guys…I can understand some of your sentiments on the subject, especially if you grew up in an abusive home, but I just can’t see the correlation between a few swats on the backside and true abuse. I think it’s a stretch. I grew up with some kids that were REALLY abused; bruises, black eyes, cigarette burns, told they were worthless pieces of shit. It’s an ugly scene. But in no way was the corporal punishment me and my brothers received ever meted out in hatred from a disturbed parent. My parents would have(and probably still would) die for me.
Got my hinny whipped a few times, I deserved it too. Love my Mom and Dad more than anything, never held it against them. Also learned much from them. My kids both got their little hinnies whipped along with the why and scripture explanations. Both are outstanding adults with respect and love in their hearts. Tis better to learn corporal punishment while young and at home. The real world is much more brutal than a simple spanking.
My daddy would give me one big whop on the butt and sit me in a chair for 30 minutes. Sitting in the chair without getting up for 30 minutes was worst.
OH, MAN!!!!!!
The “Chair” was the worst! Whenever we(brothers) would fight he would make us sit in two supper table chairs facing each other, with only about 6 inches between our knee caps. No talking, no sounds, no squirming, no nothing. The three of us are now in our mid-late forties and are very close to one another.
My father was in a violently abusive home, to the point that the State took him away from my alcoholic grandparents and placed him in the Presbyterian Boys Home in Gaffney, SC where he lived until he was released at the age of 17. He learned unconditional love tempered with discipline from the foster parents he stayed with on the weekends.
He would wallop me good when I needed it and I love him like no other.
@ Eisenkreuz. How can you or anyone else say to hit their wife? You really do hate women don’t you? A wife is there for her husband and her husband for his wife. This is horrible to say to beat your wife. This is what muslims do all the time. There are so many wonderful women out there that give everything to their husbands. How can you advocate bullying someone often smaller than someone else? I am not going to get into the queer thing, but I am wondering why you hate women so much.
BI, AMEN to your comments on women. eisen is so retarded.
It ain’t rocket science, bust their butt when they need it and love em and let them know you love them. If folks did this simple thing it would put the mental health and pharmaceutical industry in a hurt.
Wow! Who knew that a posting of a subject that initially seemed somewhat innocuous brought out so much contemptuous rage in a public forum.
Where the heck is Solomon when needed?
Why do so many feel the need to abuse another’s opinion when it is only that…..an opinion? Don’t like it….move on and express yourself.
Thumbs down seem to me to belong in the realm of: Swearing, unacceptable, undeserved insults, and the the misuse of the forum itself.
Just sayin……..and needs to be said.
Maybe we should just give the kid a trophy and send him to his room for being bad.
My Dad spanked me, I am not going to say I deserved everyone however, there was stuff he never knew about so……..
I spanked my kids, (not as much as my Dad spanked me)
My kids do not believe in spanking. Hmmm…. that could explain why some of the Grandkids do not show respect.
Although they respect their grandpa, hehehehehehehehe ’cause gramps is a tough old bird. ahahahahahahahaha
You just can`t fix stupid! Children “crave” discipline? Not love or affection? It seems the vast majority of you knuckleheads have to use violence to convince your children to go along with your warped sense of reality. Children are quite often (but not ALWAYS) simply a reflection of their environment. I imagine, however, it is easy for those of you NOT burdened with the curse of introspection to resort to physical intimidation.
Think about what you would do if your boss gave you a “swat” on the ass or a beating when you did something he/she thought you should not have done? His/Her “rules” are just as arbitrary as yours! And please spare me the intellectually void argument that “spanking” and physical abuse are different. Perhaps in your eyes, but not in your child`s eyes. I am almost certain your child does not come to you that night or several days later and say, “mom/dad, thanks for giving me that spanking/beating. It made me really think about my actions and how you only did it to make me a better person.”
The only message it sends is that, “Might makes right!”
the proof’s in the pudding, wow. why do you think the yunksters of today have no respect for their fellow citizens? (watch a black friday video). when TSHTF this time(it ALREADY HAS started), things will be SO MUCH WORSE than the LAST depression we had in the 1930’s.
It depends on the child too. I knew a woman with a young daughter. She was very sensitive. If I would have married the mother and had to discipline the daughter I would have made her stand in the corner for 2 minutes. She would have cried the whole time.
You and the people who gave a thumbs up should stand in a corner for as long as it takes to realize your failings far outweigh those of any child`s.
For all these “educated” liberals claim to believe in evolution, they sure don’t act like it. Pain is a fabulous teacher, some could argue that it is the only teacher. When you tough something sharp, or pointy, or hot, you feel pain and you learn. When you fall down and scrape your knee, you feel pain and you learn. Pain teaches us that there are consequences for our actions and choices. Lessons learned through pain last a lifetime; nobody has to remind you that touching a hot stove hurts; you do it once and remember forever.
Nature / God / Evolution, whatever, has gifted us with this amazing learning tool called pain. How stupid do you have to be to reject it?
I believe EVOLUTION has gifted (if you want to use that particular word) us with something far more valuable to make sense of the world. It is the most intricate structure in the known Universe and it resides in each one of us — the human brain. But it is clear you have rejected its use entirely!
And it has attached that brain to pain receptors in the backside.
Sometimes, a little sting to the pain receptors can get the message through before reasoning can.
Have you ever tried to reason with a tired 3-4yr old, telling them why they can’t go running across the road to the dairy through rush hour traffic? Trust me, it doesn’t work.
The old saying “The burnt hand teaches best” is still valid.When my middle daughter started playing with matches and wouldn’t stop- stacking chairs on tables etc to reach them, I had her light a match and hold it while it burnt all the way down. She never played with matches again, and actually understood why we had been telling her that fire could really hurt us.
And for those who call me abusive and a sadist for doing this, I did the same thing beforehand, just to show my partner that it wasn’t the end of the world. Furthermore, at her age I burnt my hand on a stove element. In the right light, you can still see the rings…so I understand exactly how the pain felt for her at that young age
beating. spanking. they aren’t the same thing.
If you see a small child standing in the road and vehicle is rapidly and erratically approaching, do you (non-violently of course)enter into a discussion with them on why it is inadvisable for them to remain there and then leave the decision up to them (to respect their rights), or do you grab them and haul their butt to safety because you realize they have neither the experience nor the reasoning capacity to understand the situation? In the future when you yell at them from a distance to get out of the road, do you want them to jump RTHN or think about it and come to a considered decision?
When there is a lack of time or capacity for careful evaluation; Operant conditioning-it’s what’s for survival.
I’ll stand a comparison of results of my style of parenting against the opposition any-time. Parents-of-grown-children only qualified to participate.
That absurd analogy automatically disqualifies you from participating in any intellectual discussion of the topic.
Your inability to recognize the relevance, and your cavalier dismissal of an opposing illustration, disqualifies you from participating in a reasonable discussion. Go back (or forward), earn your GED, learn some thinking skills(learn thing like ‘analogy’,’metaphor’,’simile’ and ‘illustration’); get out of the “the world is the way I see it and nothing else” mindset. Gain some experience with deconstruction of logical presentation; maybe even learn to question your own basic assumptions.
If by “intellectual” discussion you mean to say “liberal” discussion then I am glad be recognized as having excluded myself long age; judging by the language and sophistication of your arguments, before you were even born. I did not have good parents either, I am sorry you could not overcome yours, the way some of us did. It is sad to see the legacy your parents left you, but keep trying.
Thank you for confirming my initial assertion with that nonsensical response. Let me give you a piece of advice so that the next time you enter the intellectual arena you are not slaughtered like cannon fodder again. The usage of the terms “liberal” and “conservative” only serve to prove that you have very little understanding of the world in which you exist.
If we could ACTUALLY split this particular country into two disparate groups, you would have the stupid group (of which you quite obviously are a member) and everyone else. But thanks for playing the game; we have some lovely parting gifts.
The usage of the terms “liberal” and “conservative” only serve to prove that you have very little understanding of the world in which you exist.
.
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– Try actually reading the post.
We were spanked, but never struck in anger. Dad discussed the issue, asked if we understood we were breaking the rules at the time (which we always did!), and gave us 2 swats with a belt. No follow up yelling, etc. We had “paid our debt” and were returned to family life. I was 15 before I finally got the message. All 3 of us (2 girls, 1 boy) earned BS degrees, 1 MS degree, one Army LTC with Silver Star, one IBM data base manager, one GS-14 who’s also a MAJ in USAR. Yup, spanking’s bad for kids.
Wow advocating for violence against children. I wonder where soldiers come from?
Obviously from families that educate and discipline their children. I wonder what other families produce.
Vapid, self indulgent weiners
reading this, all i can say is ‘wow’.
amazing the amount of people who can not discern the difference between a swat on the rear versus true abuse: cigarette burns, punch in the face, verbal abuse, sexual abuse, etc.
similarly, those who can’t discern between the swat on the rear versus proper use of time out or other.
a swat or two on the rear is the attention getter, as in “cease & desist NOW; this must stop immediately”. whether ‘this’ is running out into the street, inserting forks into electrical outlets, endangerment of self/others, or getting overly mouthy with parent/adult; there are times when spanking is appropriate.
time out is more when a child (younger, say under 7) is simply overwhelmed by circumstances: too long in the store. a birthday party that’s too chaotic for them. they are not being willfully defiant or endangering others/themselves, they’re simply too young to handle a particular circumstance. get them out of there as soon as possible into the car or their room and they’re right as rain in about ten minutes. then you can explain to them how to behave like a big boy/big girl.
“you are going to stand in the corner here for the next thirty minutes. and i want you to think about this and afterwards explain to me…” (unless the explanation from child sheds some new light on situation), it gets followed by some punishment: no tv, take away phone, cancellation of trip/activity, grounding, unpaid hard labor (scrubbing the deck is not really hard labor; i just disliked doing it, when i would have been paid for it otherwise.)
the explanation is Bible-based? all the wiser on parents’ part.
never in anger. never involving judgement-clouding drugs/alcohol. always explained. “A is what you did wrong & B is what we want you to do next time. C is also viable option”
i work customer service and thanks to lack of spanking plus our entitlement/consumer society, one does not need to be at the receiving end of an 800 number to see that someone didn’t “get it” when they were five.
if you want to see some emotional five year olds who did not get needed spankings, worthy search phrases for youtube:
black friday
knock-out game
polar bear hunting
lady going off…
man going off…
epic bearded guy
college riot
someone asked “would you do this to an adult aged person?” no. that’s what the cops are for. or an ass-kicking from someone who would indeed do such to an adult.
might does not make right, but it’s 9/10 of the law. a five year old mouthing off to a parent/adult had best learn that lesson before they grow up to have trouble keeping jobs, marital problems, trouble with (legitimate) law or get their butt kicked in some parking lot. proper manners to adults will save your life!
myself, i was only spanked three or four times; last one was age five or six. unless you have a really willful child issue going on, a parent should not have to spank much more than that. and once the kid understands: The Look across the table from Mom or Dad will suffice forevermore, and gee, no screaming scenes. a pleasant family life for everyone.
oh. someone mentioned abuse stats for people in jail. i’d put money on it that a far higher percentage had an absent parent (usually absent father). the absent parent factor also applies to girls who get pregnant too early.
Now you’ve done it. You know it is not fair in today’s world to put forth a coherent line of reasoning, establishing a cogent argument including relevant information in context and showing reasonable connections. What’s worse, you have limited the use of anecdotal evidence to illustration and to establishing background- not as a basis of proof. How dare you show the value of an education combined with good sense? What were you thinking, sir? You underhanded rascal, you.
HOLY SHIT! Just when I thought you could not top yourself! The sheer amount of unenlightened babble that spills out of your mouth is truly remarkable. Any reference to the Bible or the military is confirmation that your critical thinking skills are not functioning properly.
Stop trying to intellectually justify physically striking a defenseless child. YOU ARE EMBARRASSING YOURSELF!!
When you overcome the knee-jerk reactions instilled in you by your unfortunate history, maybe you will be able to actually have an intelligent ( as opposed to intellectual) conversation.
Until then I wish you well with your internal demons.
The Facts About Spanking. Please watch this and learn. Children have no choice regarding their relationship with their parents. If an adult hits another adult, the person being hit can choose to leave the relationship. Children don’t have that option.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ONNRfflggBg
This type of debate reminds me of the problem one has when trying to make the case for the existence of a “Creator.” You cannot logically prove that there is a God—it is a matter of faith. In fact, any intelligent discussion based simply on reasonably provable facts supports the argument against the existence of a god.
Of course, it should not surprise me to hear the many child hitters quote scripture in their justification of striking a defenseless human being.
People here have provided a plethora of stories supporting their belief that physically intimidating a child is a valuable tool required to raise children. Then we have the perfunctory justifications that these same parents were themselves victims of physical abuse. They turned out to become model citizens not in spite of, but rather because of the treatment they endured. I find it impossible to believe that a reasonably intelligent, well-adjusted adult can declare that he/she would not have become the person they are today without the lashings they received as a child.
If one has the courage to engage in some deep introspection, you may find that it is the unresolved issues concerning your parent(s) that contributes to this vicious cycle. It is not easy to accept that your parents (as loving and kind as they were) were WRONG in this particular aspect. I would venture to say that most of us (myself included) are still carrying around unresolved shit from our childhood. If you managed to make it to adulthood with only a couple handfuls of beatings/spankings and no visits to the emergency room, you were fortunate. However, PLEASE stop trying to convince yourself and us that you actually benefitted from it! There is no other example of a human being benefiting from physical intimidation or abuse. CHILDREN ARE NO DIFFERENT!!
Moreover, let me once and for all dispel this absurd notion that “spanking” enjoys this separate distinction from all other forms of physical abuse. If someone cut me off while driving or “talked back” to me at work, would that give me the right to “spank” them? Not a punch, but just a good firm smack on their padded ass! Would the judge dismiss the case after I made the compelling argument that, “how else are they going to learn not to do that again?” or would I be charged with assault? Why is it that society, as a rule, has determined that putting your hands on another human being without their permission is unacceptable, yet spanking is a parent`s prerogative? My house, my rules?
I would encourage anyone who has a slightly open mind to go to this website and read some of the very thoughtful articles concerning children http://www.naturalchild.org. I am the father of a precious little 2 yr. old girl and obviously very passionate about this topic. As I watch her grow and make sense of the world around her, I cannot comprehend how and why someone can/would confuse physical intimidation with genuine love and affection.
An observation that I invite you ALL to look at, or not!
This is just sad ignorance. Google “bomb in the brain”. Spanking helpless little people is not ok.
“If it weren’t for the drugs, crime, violence, murder and long prison sentences – I’d recommend gangs for all kids.”
Hey, sounds like the cub scouts!
I tend to agree with the Judge’s ruling. There is nothing wrong with disciplining a child so that they grow up with adaptive tendencies, rather than maladaptive ones, which only harm others as well as themselves. If that means quick and sure punishment, such as a firm spanking when it is warranted, so be it. Fear often precedes respect, and in a parent’s capacity as a caretaker (not tyrant, as some individuals with the “I brought you into this world and I can take you out!” mindset believe.), it is necessary at times to instill fear so you will be respected, and not regarded as a pushover.
That said, I find it absurd that any parent thinks, as some people do, that it is ever “justified” to “spare not your child the rod” (Proverbs). There is a difference between strict discipline and overkill, overkill which can result in serious injuries. Children are not objects to be broken at one’s leisure (Physically or psychologically, both of which beatings can do), like a twig, but people who should be shaped and corrected for their own benefit. Society, as a self-organized organism, is dependent on having the right social structure. In order to continue existing and serving it’s purpose, the citizens of that society need to be brought up in a satisfactory manner, so that they will observe the norms of society. Deviance is only “healthy” to the extent that a relative minority of people engage in it; otherwise it ceases to be deviance and becomes chaos.
That all said, one point that I have to make is that I say parents should have to right to discipline their children as they see fit in their capacities as parents, just as a store manager has the right to implement business strategies that he believes will be the most profitable. It’s less about my concern for the “Sovereign Rulership” of the parents that I say they should be allowed to punish their children as they see fit (within reason), but rather, my belief that they should be allowed to decide how to meet their *responsibilities* that they have assumed for themselves. Furthermore, I do not believe that any person has an “inherent” right to parenthood, any more than an individual has a “right” to get sh*t faced drunk and retain their driver’s license after bouncing across the streets like a ping-pong ball, or I have the right to murder somebody.
Rights, such as life, freedom, the right to vote, healthcare (In other developed countries) and so on are presuppositions of living in civil society, not self-enforcing “absolutes” that exist in some platonic realm of forms. They are granted by some authority and are subject to revocation. Even God, the supposed author of inviolable and absolute rights, says that people who violate certain norms “Must be cut off” or “Must surely be put to death.” and that they are to be shown “no pity”. Seems to me like that pops that little balloon of foot loose fancy.
I wanted to clarify this point and make it crystal clear, myself being a moderate, because some people think they have the right to procreate and do whatever they please with their children, as if they were qualitatively no different than a gun or a foot stool: a piece of property, basically, when in fact, they are simply performing a duty with extensive responsibilities which should be rooted in selflessness: The desire to bring another person up in the world and allow them to enjoy the same experience of life that you have enjoyed for so many years. To the extent that people fail to live up to those responsibilities and in their duties to the child they raise by displaying incompetence or by willfully abusing their authorities, then again, they deserve to have their rights/privileges (It’s just a game of semantics) revoked. That may sound harsh, but that’s life, and that’s the way it works sometimes.