Pension Fund Ultimatum: A Haircut Looks Better Than a Beheading

by | Jul 26, 2011 | Headline News | 120 comments

Do you LOVE America?


    Millions of Americans believe they’re sitting pretty with their pensions funds, 401(k) retirement plans and medical benefits. But, as we’ve written previously on numerous occasions, pensions are anything but safe.

    We’re starting to see the coming pension wipe out creep up in smaller cities, and you can be assured that this will spread like wildfire as local, state and federal governments that have over committed funds and underestimated economic growth and tax revenue struggle to stay in the black.

    The latest example comes to us from Central Falls, Rhode Island, where the city government has basically told pensioners that they can either voluntarily agree to pension benefits cuts of 10% to 50%, or face the possibility of a total wipe out of their retirements if the city goes bankrupt:

    According to a CNN report, Judge Robert Flanders who appointed by the state to work out a solution to keep the the city from going bankrupt said the choice is limited to the pensioners to either volunteer to a 50% pension cut or risk losing it all in bankruptcy court.

    The ultimatum has been given as part of an overall restructuring plan for the city in which broad sweeping sacrifices and deep budget cuts are being made across the board in order to close the gap on the city’s $80 million dollar budget shortfall.

    Source: Alexander Higgins

    In a Fox News interview (video below) Judge Flanders lays out the reality of the situation:

    Fox Host: Correct me if I’m wrong, but I read a quote from you, “A haircut looks better than a beheading.”

    Judge Flanders: Correct. What I was trying to convey is that a bankruptcy may even be worse than what we propose, and so I was hoping to do this by voluntary agreement. As terrible as it was, it may be better than what we can offer in a bankruptcy.

    The city of Central Falls has a budget shortfall of $80 million. Certainly a large number, but nothing even close to what we’re looking at in larger metropolitan areas, states and the Federal government itself. When we look at all of the combined commitments we’re well outside of the realm of millions and have entered the untenable region of trillions of dollars in debt and deficits.

    Three years ago it was difficult for any American to imagine that governments would have to either cut pension funds or draw on those funds to make ends meet. Recently, when Tim Geithner ran out of money, the first thing he did was to raid pension funds to the tune of tens of billions of dollars. For now, those pensioners are safe, but it won’t be long before all governments start coming for those pension funds – giving pensioners the ultimatum of either agreeing to massive benefit cuts or simply going bankrupt.

    And you can be assured that, even though today the majority of Americans will vehemently deny the possibility and call you a lunatic for even making the suggestion, when governments go after the pensions of their own employees and retired employees, in the spirit of fairness, they will also come after private retirement accounts.

    We all need to do our part, after all.

    Hat tip BJ, Steve Quayle


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      1. As Mish like’s to say, “what can’t be paid for (or paid back), won’t be.”

        • I would love to give up 50% of my retirement as long as you give up DEREGULATION,give up 85% of all military,give up 100 of the CIA, give up 100% of the fed reserve completely give up all dealings with rocerfeller and his buddies along with Rothchild,soros term limits of 4 years max on all elected officials! 4 year limit on all military officers give up home land and tsa.take down all cameras give up the FDA give us 100% of our FREEDOM and bide 100% to the constitution!

          • Right on, Gandhi! Two terms in any elected office would go a long way in solving our problems. I would add to your list end all retirement plans NOW for all elected officials to include those receiving them; end Secret service protection for all dog turds receiving it, strip all wealth from those who have profited from the FED and hang same from nearest tree along side those who have not upheld their oath to support and defend the Constitution, make sure all presidential candidates are American-born and that their spouses are proud to be an American BEFORE they get jet service all over the world, end welfare NOW, and demand a free press. Damn, are we dreaming?? Also, something must be done about a Supreme Court that doesn’t uphold the constitution.

            • Right on, Lefty!

        • When these funds are raided, only IOUs will replace funds taken. Possesion is 90% of ownership.

          • In many cases, in a short time, there won’t be any money to take possesion of. I think, in the case of government funds, the treasury secretary got the funds now, cause he knows there won’t be anything to take later. If government employees can’t see the handwriting on the wall, they deserve to lose their pensions.

      2. I think beheadings would be better! Can you kids say FRENCH REVOLUTION? OFF WITH THEIR HEADS

        • The police state is being create to prevent that very thing. You might want to be careful about those types of statements. Not trying to censor but people must be aware of what’s realy happening.

          • Mariposa

            We may want think about such statements??????? Damn I got news for you by posting on this site and others like it, YOU are on the list. If you think I’m wrong go buy a gun tommorrow, and lets see if you are on the wait list. I damn well know I am and who really cares. Last time I looked I am a American and I will stand up for my Freedom and I will protect my family at all cost. regaurdless of of what they want to do to me, All I can say is you bettwer bring more then a piece of f–king paper.

            • I am sure those A$$CLOWNS have me on some list, but you know what? These crook poploticians that are embezling TRILLIONS, are on my list of A$$HOLES!

            • So, err, where is this waiting list when I buy a firearm at a gun show? 😉

            • You are absolutely right. we are all, already on a list. But so what. The US has already gone past the tipping point, and the next phase of collapse is in the works. If anyone wants to pay attention to it, you can see their devious minds at work everyday. just look at all the executive orders that have been passed in the last couple years. The PTB have totally ignored the constitution. They are full steam ahead.
              look for a full court press on gun control coming soon. There’s no telling what they are going to come up with. But with all the gun owners out there, me included, I don’t think a gun seizure thing is going to work. there are too many rednecks out there that believe in the cold dead fingers thing. With all that’s going on now, people are so pisssed with their government, just because they say you have to do something, doesn;’t mean all the people are going to do it lock step.

          • I know exactly what is happening!Crooks play for keeps. example A. Cindy Shehhan( who according to abcnbccbsfox has disapeared off the planet,right when obummer was elected, with ALL the other anti-war people) runs against polosi, her offices are burglarized, computers stolen, supporters harrased many ways, and audited by the irs, and the week of the election, she is on jury duty all week! Do you laugh or do you cry? I don’t know. In the words of one of our moral leaders “it depends on the defenition of what is, is, is” WHO ARE “THEIR”?

          • They must also be aware of COULD happen. Situational awareness is everything (excepting preparedness).

      3. Well of COURSE this is coming to most all public and private pensions. They have been under funding most of them, and basing future payouts on unrealistic future market returns.

        People are going to come to understand the wise advice of an Cuban buddy of mine “If you don’t hold it, you don’t own it”.

        20-30 years ago, folks were saying “ah, Social Security won’t be there when I get there”…..well, they were likely right, but that’s also going to apply to private company pensions, individual savings in dollar denominated paper promises, and so on. The ONLY way this whole economic mess can end is with a great big RESET button, in which everybody is going to take a pretty good haircut, and many, a 100% shave !

        To truly protect yourself going forward, own a debt free, small, food producing pc of land,(3-10ac) that can feed you and your family, the tools and knowledge to work it, and enough precious metals to keep the property tax collector at bay so you don’t get booted off for a piddly little amount of tax.
        I’ve spent the last 20 years preparing such a place, good luck to the rest of ya’ll.

        • That boat has a short landing strip down South.

        • If we hit the reset button, I’m not paying no damn land tax. There better not BE a tax collector. Otherwise, he can collect my copper-jacketed lead first.

          In all seriousness, I believe it to be wrong that a man can “own” a piece of land and have to pay taxes EVEN if all he’s doing is farming it. Why can’t a person own a piece of land, live on it and grow his own food, draw water out of his own well, not owe anybody anything, and be left alone? Someone living like that shouldn’t have to pay taxes. If he decides to do extra stuff on the side that makes him fabulously wealthy, then MAYBE a tax. Otherwise, leave him alone.

          • It’s called Allodial title, and even when the US was founded it was rare. In a reset situation, it is the first thing that needs to be established. How free are we when our land can be taken away by the government whenever they decide to do so? That is what is known as feudalism, and the fact that our “free” government has a feudal overlord right to the land of its citizens is a disgrace.

          • Cyber_Samurai says: I know someone who can help you find the tax loopholes and get out of paying property taxes. You may have herd of him before, his name is (John Kerry).

          • “Someone living like that shouldn’t have to pay taxes.”

            He has to pay taxes because he might send his kids to a public school, drive on public roads, play at public parks, read at public libraries, be protected by the police, and maybe someday have his farm defended by the military. I could go on and on, but you get the idea.

            You’re always going to have to pay taxes. The real fight is over how much you should have to pay.

            • Louie:

              I hope I’ve misunderstood you. You don’t really mean (john kerry) should not have to pay taxes do you?

              Cause if you really think he should not have to pay taxes Like the rest of us! – I’ed like to to bet you brains out with a baseball bat…but, then I might get shit on my new shirt. You know when your head comes apart….I’m just kidding 😉 Peace & Love

            • have to disagree.

              He should definately pay- but only if he wants to play. Ofcouse if a citizen wants all the services of a public school, police force a road (if its to his house on his property its a private road anyways that he had to pay to build) libraries etc.

              If you want to play in the system then sure, by all means go ahead and pay for it- but if people don’t want any part of that BS and want to be left alone, leave em alone. Tax em when they go to build a money maker on their property

          • You’ll own free and clear if a CME or EMP ever pops.

            • I think you might be right—back to the 1800’s . millions dead in the first few won’t be a prety sight.

          • Cyber_Samurai,
            You pay your real estate taxes for the roads that allow you ingress and egress to your property, the fireman and policeman that protect you and your property, the schools that educate your childen, the local judicial system that allows you to address grievances in a civilized manner, etc., etc. Come on, are you that clueless?

        • There will probably be no retirement as most of us think of it for many of us 50 or older.

      4. Here is the water on the beach receding just before the tsunami hits.

        • Yep-per! when you feel and see that water being sucked back out, you know that huge spitball’s comin’. Better head for high ground. Pulled all of mine out, took the penalty and placed it all in silver. Bought it around seventeen an ounce. Made more money on it in six months than all the years it was in there bouncing like a yo-yo. Sold a little bit, bought another piston AR in .308, more powder, bullets, primers, and two more single stage reloaders.

          • In 2010, I cleaned my 401k out, paid the income tax, and no early withdrawel penalty, as this was from a company I retired from. What a tax hit—but, did much the same thing you did. Best thing I ever did. never looked back. The thing that people need to remember. If you don’t do something from lack of fear, there won’t be anything left to do something with when you do get ready to act. I have seen nothing happen that tells me I made a mistake in my decision to liquidate my 401k. There is nothing wrong with having cash around, but I’m watching my savings evaporate before my eyes through inflation. The silver contiues to more than hold it’s own.
            Short version—act now and avoid losing everything later. if you can’t see the handwriting on the wall, you deserve what happens to you later.

        • Damn you hit that right on the head. and it begins.glad I have my $28 in the bank.Just wait tel they hit the railroad penisons, then the SHTF.

      5. Dear most public employee pension holders and private one’s too…..most (not all) have a means of converting that “pension” into an IRA. Now an IRA isn’t safe, but you can for about $500 to $1,000 create a “self directed” IRA and then invest that money in a privately held LLC (your privately held LLC) and use the funds for land, metals, houses, etc. There are restrictions (can’t buy your own house darn it) but you can buy farm land (best), gold (good), silver (good) and even fund a business (ok).

        • Do you really believe that won’t be sucked up too? I don’t. I get plenty of information on this sort of thing and everytime I see it I have the same thought. Thought being: why wouldn’t our masters harvest those funds too?

          Don’t we know by now that none of our wealth, no matter how small, is safe from these people? They write the laws and change them at will no matter how we feel about it. Why would anyone trust these thieves?

          • It’s a lot easier to soak up in a brokerage account then as an asset in an LLC. If that asset is as mobile as gold coins….then no I would not worry. Even land I think you could defend better then 400 shares of McDonalds stock. Perfect no, but far better.

          • There will come a point after the collapse that many people will say—no. besides, after the masses lose everything, they will be looking for payback, and i wouldn’t want to be a banker at that time. Once a collapse happens, some things will be different. How different remains to be seen.

      6. They want to work us all into an early grave. Clint said dying isn’t much of a living. Well working isn’t much of a retirement. What to do? Check out. extra income and storable food it’s a start.

        • Love it!

      7. this is where the rubber is going to meet the road..
        if the general populace doesnt see the power hungry big heads taking this type of will be shit like this that starts the war.

        why isnt congress pensions getting hit..

        this is where the anger is going to build to a fever pitch

        • Where the sheep get sheared first. So it wasn’t just a bad dream.

          • Where are they taken you, ma?

        • you are starting to see the same thing the masses will see later. I don’t see any of those groups you mentioned taking any kind of a hit, but yet they expect Americans to suffer, because of the illegal actions of a few groups. None of these groups have even been brought up on charges, but yet we are bailing them out.
          Eventually, when the masses are starving, they’ll want some payback. Just look at what happens overseas with the food riots and civil disorder. It WILL happen here, make no mistake.

        • your in Michigan aren’t ya?

      8. Did Huddy get a boob job?

        • I’m glad somebody else noticed. I thought I was seeing double.

          • I got two guns, one for each of ya.

        • Look good, don’t they!

          • Good career move!

        • I noticed that the other day watching her

      9. Let the Games begin. I wonder what is going to happen to the pension funds in Jefferson County, Alabama (Birmingham) Now that they have hired a bankruptcy attorney.

        I’m not against government workers, but the politicians and unions have voted themselves pay and benefits the citizens just can not afford.

        Its going to be a mess when the gravy train comes to an abrupt stop. Can you see the wheels of America coming to a stop?

        • In Alabama–it will be take a haircut, or take a beheading, their choice.

      10. I am sorry, but quite a few of these pensioners have gamed the system too long and too much. Whole cities and communities are breaking their backs to supply their comfy retirements.

        It’s time for the pensioners to pay back.

        • You are right. The public employee unions have really set themselves up for a nice pay off. Of course in the end they’ll get what everyone else does – screwed over. Still we could probably enjoy many more years of non SHTF if it wasn’t for the hosing they’ve delivered. Retirement based on the last 3 years of wages and paid for over 10 years at lower wages really screws the pooch.

        • End of the line for lavish public employee pensions. For some of them, a 50% haircut will leave them a better pension than many private sector retirees.

          • There are many misconceptions about pensions, at least at the federal level. But, in any case, for those who argue that government pensioners have it so much better than private pensioners, please be honest. You likely had a chance to make a choice long ago. You could have gone into government service for a small wage but job security and a good pension. Or, you could have gone into the private sector to take a chance on making a fortune in the present and buying your pension and retirement lifestyle in business. If you chose the latter, you did so because you believed in yourself and in the system–that you could excel and make alot of money to secure your present and future. THAT WAS THE RISK YOU CHOSE long ago. You were happy to do it, because in, say, 1986, you thought you would make millions in, say, the computer business. Some such folks did, in fact, make it big. They retired at 35 as multi-millionaires. Their risk was handsomely rewarded. It did not turn out so great for others. But that does not mean that they, or you, should now attack those who chose public service. They took a fraction of the earnings up front to secure earnings in the future. It may not have been bold, but it was honest and it was with security in mind. They should not now “take a haircut” or a “beheading.” They bargained for that outcome with the public (who hired the people who hired the public servants). They should get that outcome. Fail in this, and government can fail in anything, including your services and your liberties. Watch what you ask for here–sure, government may cheat the public servant out of his pension, but what will government then take from you?

            • Federalist45,
              Of course you’re absolutely right that those people accepted lower wages in return for a secure pension and healthcare benefits. But the downside is the taxpayer cannot afford to let these people retire at 50 years of age and live off the taxpayer until they’re dead at 85. Also, the way the pension payment is “gamed” in the last few years by not taking vacation and getting it paid out as “salary”, which is factored into the final calculation, is not fair to the taxpayer. Then there are the “double dippers”, who retire from their job at 50, receive their monthly pension benefit, and then get re-hired at a new salary while collecting their pension benefits. There’s plenty of blame to go around. Because they accepted lower wages, public employees deserve some sort of pension, but taxpayers cannot get raped in the process.

      11. Sitting pretty…

      12. It seems inevitable that this will happen.

        Think about it. Go to work when you are 20. Work 25 years until you are 45 and then get pay for life!!

        Take a second govt job, work 20 years until you are 65 and get double pension. Plus social security.

        Talk about living fat off the hog.

      13. Harry Callahan: [heading into the barber shop] Tell me, ever been to one of these before?
        Kate Moore: No.
        Harry Callahan: In that case, I’d like to suggest that you sit out here.
        Kate Moore: Please don’t concern yourself, Inspector.

      14. He who makes the rules can change the rules. This just illustrates the importance of keeping as much of your current and future wealth under as much of your own control as possible.

        • Of course, if he who makes the rules can change it for Citizen X, he can change it for you, JoinOly. What do you control? Unless you have your wealth buried in Antarctica and have immediate access to it, the government can change the rules to screw you, too. I would be much more concerned, if I were you, with ensuring YOUR government does not get in the habit of changing the rules.

      15. Here are two suggestions:

        Each retiree should file an inverse condemnation against the city because a retirement is property and the federal constitution requires that just compensation be paid for the taking of private property. Think of all the cases clogging up the judge’s court.
        When each suit is won, the retirees would be the first in line for all the assets of the City when it goes through bankruptcy, and the entire City budget is assets including all the needed funds for salaries etc.;

        Also, City officials/employees can be personally sued by retirees per the case Thibodou v State of Main.

        • Sorry. When the city gets bankrupt, there won’t be anything for the bloated retirees to collect. They can now have the city hall for themselves, if they can afford the utilities.

        • The cities in question will have raided the pension funds and gone bankrupt before any cases get to court. Suing is one thing. Winning is another. Collecting is a even higher hurdle.

      16. “And you can be assured that, even though today the majority of Americans will vehemently deny the possibility and call you a lunatic for even making the suggestion, when governments go after the pensions of their own employees and retired employees, in the spirit of fairness, they will also come after private retirement accounts.”

        That plan has already been discussed in committee meetings over the past 2 years. You can google “IRA/401K confiscation” for yourselves. Also look up HR2411 where you can “volunteer” a portion of your pay to go to the Treasury to pay down the national debt. It’s not charitable or a tax deduction if you do. Just something they can cry “patriotic duty” over.

      17. It’s hard to believe that there are still people so asleep who don’t yet realize that those funds should be transferred ASAP into gold, guns & groceries.

      18. …And they forfeited their Social Security for these pensions. Pensions that were in the $40k annually range are going down to $20k (poverty level).

        Folks this is just the beginning … shit is hitting the fan more and more everyday… this is not the worst of it.

        First Bailouts

        Second it’s Pensions

        Third it’s Social Security (that was paid in by us)

        Then it will be the 401K’s and IRA’s

        All of it is money from the American people.

        And then, just maybe, we can have a Revolution!

        Wake UP People!!! This is not going to stop until something severe happens

        They F*cking us big Time – And they’re not done raping us yet!!!

        • it’s kind of bad when you have it figured out, and there’s not much you can do about it. Seperate yourself from their system as much as possible. Appear to be as poor as the rest of the millions of stupid sheeple that are going to starve. be a mushroom, and hide in the dark. Anonomous is the way you want to be.

      19. If I was in my fifties, I would have definitely pulled out of my 401k by now. But at the age of 29, I already have plenty of the guns, gold, and groceries. Not that I’m claiming you could ever have too much, however I still have alot of room for a rebound on my 401k that so long as they don’t socialize it, I’ll keep it in my portfolio.

        • I stopped contributions, aka throwing good money after bad, but still work at the same job, so I cannot drain the existing account.
          I have a sideline business advising poeple to on retirement, and sound like a broken record: “Invest in canned food and guns.”

      20. I don’t know folks I haven’t worked since 08, been on unemployment to which I am ashamed. There is no work to which I can pay for gas everyday and still make something. No pity pot just don’t see what can be done. Those bastards are destroying everything. People I try and talk to think its all ok, I don’t know folks, I just don’t know!

        • Keep the faith copout. I have not worked since last year, but fortunately for me I could consider myself retired. It would be possible for me never to work again, but then I wouldn’t enjoy the lifestyle they are so adaptly destroying. I would not mind putting in 3 or 5 more years – it’d make a big difference but no one hires 46 yr old retired cops.

          • Thanks Jim, I am 51 went through the academy in 99/00 second in my class, squad leader, still in top shape, I think maybe that in itself intimidates. Matter of fact just sent an email to a department that knows me and was told by another deputy the captains doesn’t like anyone with more training than him. Maybe God wants me out due to the large amount of jerks wearing the uniform, I really miss helping others. Thanks again Jim it was good to read your comments, God bless you and yours!

            • Sorry, should have read (captain)

            • Copout

              Damn glad to see you here, My best friend in the world is a old Tx dps trooper, He quit because he told me the drunks were having more fun then him, now he is retired Railroader like my Dad.I’m just happy to see even the retired LEO’s are waking up.


            • Copout,
              I agree with Jim. Don’t be ashamed of being out of work and on unemployment compensation. That’s what it’s there for. God may have other plans for you, but you must be patient.

              I was laid off two years ago from a great banking job in a small town, but when you have a bank on every corner and people can’t borrow any more because they’re already too deep in debt, eventually all those banks start laying off employees. No pity party, just the facts. When an economy gets out of balance with too much consumption, too much debt, it must rebalance itself and people get thrown out of work.

          • Must be nice to be retired at 46!

            • I thank my dad for leaving me with two things. One the ability to live way below my income and want for little, and several thousand acres in rural Nevada 1200 of which is leased to alfalfa farmers. My wife and I bought a nice home in our community last year with no debt. I get pissed about the potential for hyperinflatin to pay off debts when I have none. I don’t expect to see my pension and as of right now I can’t roll it into an IRA. Cashing out is an option as I’m in a low tax bracket, but I lose 60%. The city is considering the IRA roll. Maybe a couple of small campaign contributions this fall and I’ll get lucky.

      21. yeah, their gonna start with cutting off social security pensions and veteran pensions- both of which are currently incomes that rank just below the poverty line. then they will take the paychecks of the active duty military volunteer-since the government did not promise them anything in those enlistment contracts except a few years of doing anything and everything for the commander in chief (that moron whose name is straight outta africa). they are’nt gonna take it all from the “rich”, they are just gonna turn the rich into the new middleclass. dont sell your granny’s old silver tea service…you will probably need it for barter.

      22. I think the biggest reason people don’t “get it” is because they go to work everyday listen to the local news every night,go to bed and start over! And when you try to tell them they just say “not in America!” that’s what I hear when I try to tell people to stalk up!

      23. Here is a great 1 for ya’ll after putting in 50 hrs last week I was ask to week both sat and sun. Which would be great I could use the money, however I was told there would be no overtime pay for the 10 extra hrs as well as the 20 hrs for sat and sun. Now you tell me should I just bend over and take it or be like a sheeple and say thank you sir may I have another? ? I can tell you now I didn’t not take it the BS let them do all the bs work.


        • No, you should definitely quit. Just tell us where to apply right after.

          • Egore

            To funny, I’m guessing you don’t have a clue as to how to build a log cabin. But hey if you want the job and have the skills and can work in temps up to 106 degrees I say get her done big boy.Oh and by the way bring you own tools that will run you around $1500.00.

      24. It’s easy to see what’s going to happen. With high unemployment and more on the way, there is going to be hell to pay.


        High levels of unemployment can be causes of civil unrest, in some cases leading to revolution, and particularly totalitarianism. The fall of the Weimar Republic in 1933 and Adolf Hitler’s rise to power, which culminated in World War II and the deaths of tens of millions and the destruction of much of the physical capital of Europe is attributed to the poor economic conditions in Germany at the time, notably a high unemployment rate of above 20%; see Great Depression in Central Europe for details.…1&Itemid=191〈=en

        No money means no way to pay for services, which means no money to pay for salaries much less pensions. If you cash in your gold that means you will pay a tax on it even though you may have purchased it with already taxed dollars. There will be hell to pay for sure–we know that it’s coming and soon.

        • Best todeal outside the system as much as possible. Russians are expert at this (years of experience).

      25. Tax on the hay you feed the cattle and tax on the shyt you sell for fertiler, Sounds like BS to me. Tax, Tax Tax. what next pee tax??? I drank the beer that I paid tax on and now you wanna tax me for taken a leak.


        • Opps fertilzer…..bad day…

        • DPS: Thanks there a lot of excellent people here!

      26. Friends

        I hate to say this because I feel its not what many want to here, But the time is getting near where the PTB are going to shut us all up. we have seen this happen all over the world and yes it will come to the United States of America. At the rate we are going they will pull the rug from our feet, the rug will be the internet. Once this happens then there will be NO WAY to share the info like we do now. So if you know people within CB range it might be wise to have them keep those radio’s charged and left on. I don’t do the copy paste thing but it was said today that the water is going out and the next wave may takeyour a-s away..

        God bless us all.

        • Power to the hackers. They will set us free…..have faith. This little buddy has gotten to big to blow up.

          If you want to think fear…..EMP….they tell us it’s N. Korea or Iran and even blow them to smithereens for it. Meanwhile they wipe out our debt, future obligation, cure global warming, etc, etc, for the mere cost of 270 million dead people. Plus those behind it live like kings.

      27. A man can only be pushed so far friends.

      28. Copout

        Excop or not you stike me as a cool guy, maybe sometime in the future our path’s will cross. And then mybe I can buy you a cold one. I think about what my Dad thusght me. He told me that any man with values was to be treated with respect and let NO man disrespect your values. So these are words I have tried to live my POS life by, but hey I have never let my family go without.
        As a man we as should strive for dignity !

      29. yayayayayaya my spelling sucks strike me

      30. DPS: I don’t drink anymore but hey a cold glass of milk and cookies would be excellent, lol. Brother your alright in my book! Ya know were are gonna make it, I just wish I could get my hands on some of these crooks. Speaking of dads mine was an aircraft mechanic for Eastern airlines years ago, he always said 5 sons mind you There are no free lunches in this world : end quote.

      31. Copout

        My Dad had 6 brothers and 2 sisters they grew up in Michigan, the railroad brought Dad to TX. Mom and Dad could not have kids so I’m adopted but as far as I’m concerned they are my parents, I have never ask who my true blood is. I just know my true blood lives accross town from me and they are the my parents. And cookies and milk sounds damn good.As far as the crooks we speak of we all know as men we shall be held accountable in the end .. They will get whats coming to them either by man and the good lord in heaven!

      32. Greetings Everyone!
        Looks like the mis-management of the pensions are coming home to roost.I watched a video from the City of Chicago in Illinois Comptrollers Office.It borders on a French Farce comedy just how badly the pensions are UNDERFUNDED.It not about the unions,not about the city managers,but about the BANKERS(I.E. Goldie Suxs and their ilk)who assured these people that good rates of return would continue indefinitely.And they didn’t NEED to FULLY fund the pensions no matter what.And they did this to every pension fund they could get their dirty,greedy and EVIL hands on.”Men of Ivy league education and sound business experience” they referred to themselves as being.They certainly looked the part,at least.They did This with the full and total inside knowledge of the financial,housing and other bubbles that were going to burst back then!.When TSHTF,The bankers took their massively over-billed fees,looked around their multi-million dollar finely appointed offices,shrugged their $2000+ suited shoulders,looked at their $700 custom shoes,brushed their $100 manicured nails thru their $250 haircuts,made a huge smile showing perfect $50000 teeth and said in their perfect Harvard\Yale accented sneers something like these words:No bread for the poor of Paris? LET THEM EAT CAKE!.The REVOLUTION of France was called the TERROR because when the poor took their revenge for being starved to death they KILLED so very many of the UBER-RICH and and many of those those who worked for them back then.I don’t condone the terrible mass killing of women,young children or the elderly just because they are the families or had dealings with The UBER-RICH Aristocracy.But it DID happen back then.If things are allowed fall totally apart and people are starving,I doubt the desperately poor of today will have any more remorse in killing in the name of “justice” and “revenge” than those of 1700’s France.The “ARMY” had no funds to pay their troops either,so you know what happened to that “ACE” in the hole the UBER-RICH counted on to protect them.
        Just a few thoughts on a Fiercely hot day in the middle south.
        Best to ALL
        Mr. O just wrote a fat IOU to the civil service FULLY FUNDED pensions.Paid into that for 35 years.Wonder what he will repay the IOU with?
        Magic Jelly Beans?
        And for a moment back in the day I WAS almost tempted to Vote for the “Man of Change” from Illinois.
        Not that the dweebs on the other side were the better choice,just much less appealing.
        Really,Really less.
        Looks like it will be the same old mess again next time.
        Best Again to ALL

        • grayfoxgreen- Perfectly said!

        • I have done a write in vote for Savage for every office for years.

      33. Typical imperial progression. It’s happened twice before (1200 B.C. and 400 A.D.). Empires self-destruct; working class is destroyed along with the economy; war-lords wind up in power (picture Somalia today).
        Picture the Twin Towers. Planes crash into the upper stories, which collapse into the floors below until the bottom becomes a pile of rubble. The federal government will collapse into state governments which are too deeply in debt, which will in turn crash into the local governments, which also have too much debt, but there is nowhere else to go. Warlords will take over and rule with many local wars as they try to increase their power. Remember, the so-called nobles during the Middle Ages were nothing more than warlords. The mythology which has grown up around the Middle Ages is just that, pure romanticizing of a very nasty and lawless period in history. The same thing happened after 1200 B.C.

      34. Unrelated post:

        I recently opened a bucket containing pinto beans packed in the mid-late 90s. The bucket had been opened before, the mylar bag unsealed, some contents used, and the bag reclosed by being twisted and tied with a piece of copper electrical conductor. The beans looked just as they did when they were packed.

        • Thanks for sharing Ben…I WAS really disgusted with the scare tactics used by these companies selling these 02 absorbers, dessicants, mylar, etc.
          And then I read a pioneer of the ‘storing in buckets’ technique in the 80’s!!!
          I feel better now–it’s all BS.
          He had a bucket in the barn for years, opened it–food was fine.
          Probably beans, huh??

      35. If everything was planned correctly, and the citizenry were better educated, all pension funds would be private. It is mostly a result of these unfunded pension liabilities that these pension raids are occurring. I am reminded of the comment about regulations: Once the camel’s nose gets in the tent…watch out!

      36. (1) If government officials and/or bankers are responsible, then pensioners should seek legal redress through the courts.

        (2) Failure to pay pensioners what is owed them would be the beginning of true default, at whatever level it occurs. A pension is a promise to pay in the future for work performed in the past and present. If the government is not held to its promise with respect to pensions, it cannot be held to its other promises, from bonds to services to presevation of liberty. . . It would be the beginning of the end.

        (3) If the pension issue results in enough failure, you can bet that all bets will be off. People who worked for 40 years for government wages with a view having a decent pension on the other end will not stand for such failure. It will get ugly.

        (4) We will face one of two outcomes to deal with the the social unrest and upheaval. First, we could face complete breakdown and chaos. Under this scenario, he who wields the mightiest sword will dominate. Might will make right, or at least might will survive. Second, and the more likely outcome, is totalitarian control by a mega-State (a beefier, meaner, more evil U.S. government). The people likely will cave to this government to buy security. They will surrender liberty and properity. Most societies have done this at some point in the past. Ours has been headed this way since at least Lincoln.

        • With corporate bankruptcy, private pensions are terminated. Spoke to a guy who worked and paid into his pension 37 years for Chrysler had a $3100 per month income. It was reduced to $800 a month then to ZERO with ithe company’s bankruptcy.

          Folks this has been planned since the S&L Debacle. The gangster bankster lobbyists orchestrated that, and when they got away with it, Wall Street turned its attention to their pension liabilities.

          Its been in the cards for decades.

        • People who worked for the govt for 40 years are likely to get cushy jobs after retirement, due to their inside track to the government. SO they are already benefiting from their years of experience.

          It’s like they will get paid from 2 places. How nice. How wonderful the world is. However angry people who have to support their lifestyle won’t be too happy to leave things like that.

      37. They won’t stop there. They’ll keep coming back for more. Even when your dead.

        OsiXs (Common Sense 3.1)

        • Screw…and shit can that liberal shit dude. I think you got lost there max.

      38. You guys thinking about the penalties and taxes from cleaning out your 401k, think about this. 40% of something, is better than 100% of nothing. The window of opportunity is closing.

        • Good point Geaseman.

      39. and to think that this republic was founded because of a 2 cents tea tax…

        hen it suits TPTB they will erase all electronic money..all accounts will vanish..all at once…..maybe even blame it on Iran’s emp attack….if past history is any indication of hat they are capable of…jfk,nahm,ruby ridge, Waco, Oklahoma city,9/11,3 wars for our security,stock market 2008…..IMHO
        all are connected..and yes I believe in GOD and the CONSTITUTION…

      40. Fascinating to contemplate the pension crisis along with the “debt crisis”–is the latter manufactured primarily to steal money through the former? In other words, the debt crisis managers say “we all have to give a little.” The “giving” is the theft of our Social Security, Medicare, and pensions–funds we HAVE PAID INTO for 40 or 50 years. The “giving” ultimately goes to those it has gone to since Lincoln’s War–those who have nearly all and those who prefer to simply take what they are given. In the middle, the vast unwashed, working, middle, are those of us who work our lives away to benefit the extremely wealthy and those who have lived, and prefer to live, off of “government” largesse (i.e., our tax dollars). So now, in 2011, all of the sudden we have debt crisis. The thieves in government argue about the best way to steal even more money from the working class. In the end, it boils down to government redistributing our wages and pensions to others who did not work for it. In the end, it is theft by government.

        This cannot end well. Again, it is going to be either mass chaos and social, political, and economic upheaval, or it is going to be a totalitarian State, built on the fears of people who prefer security to liberty.

      41. This is why the government hates people who save their money ‘under their mattress’. The bankers can’t spend it or confiscate it. Pull cash out of the bank and get a lock box. Keep only as much in the bank that you’ll need to pay bills. Stash the rest.

        • What do you call money?

      42. I foresee a bunch of ex-government employees fighting for their pension, when the whole govt structure is collapsing. Good luck finding people who will support their cause when people have to pay thousands a month to pay the retiree’s bloated pension while getting no municipal services.

      43. Every regime always grabs everything it can on the way down the chute.
        They start with raising taxes, they increase beaurocracy, they make it impossible for small businesses to exist, then they start grabbing assets. They’ll start by grabbing government pensions (“loans” according to Timothy Geithner), then they will come up with a scam to nationalize your 401Ks and IRAs (for our own good, of course). You’ve been served fair notice… get your money out of the system now and buy survival goods and precious metals. Beat them to it.

      44. Have you ever heard of San Diego, CA?

        Google SEC San Diego Pension plan; underfunding, etc.

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