NSA Chief Warns Black Energy Attack On U.S. Power Grid A ‘Matter Of When, Not If’ – Lights Out Scenario Not A Myth But A Coming Reality

by | Mar 8, 2016 | Headline News | 129 comments

Do you LOVE America?



    On March 1, 2016, Admiral Michael S. Rogers, U.S. Navy, Commander, U.S. Cyber Command, Director, National Security Agency/Chief, Central Security Service, was a keynote speaker, one of many the Obama administration rolled out at the 2016 RSA Conference, in order to push for more cooperation by the tech industry with government agencies, but Rogers’ warnings and predictions should be enough to convince even the most skeptical among us that a “lights out” scenario as well as a massive cyber attack on financial institutions, is not a “conspiracy” or “doom and gloom,” but is an eventuality.

    The warnings and predictions Rogers makes come from having access to the most detailed information available, and he states clearly that it is “only a matter of the when, not the if, you are going to see a nation state, a group or actor engage in destructive behavior against critical infrastructure in the United States.”

    Rogers continues on to reference the December 23, 2015 event in Ukraine where an actor pentrated the Ukraine power grid and took large segments of it offline.

    According to Ars Technica this first-ever hacker caused power outage, using highly destructive malware dubbed “Black Energy” signals a “troubling escalation” in cyber attack capabilities. Reports indicate that hundreds of thousands were left without power from that attack.

    Via that article:

    “It’s a milestone because we’ve definitely seen targeted destructive events against energy before—oil firms, for instance—but never the event which causes the blackout,” John Hultquist, head of iSIGHT’s cyber espionage intelligence practice, told Ars. “It’s the major scenario we’ve all been concerned about for so long.”


    According to ESET, the Ukrainian power authorities were infected using booby-trapped macro functions embedded in Microsoft Office documents. If true, it’s distressing that industrial control systems used to supply power to millions of people could be infected using such a simple social-engineering ploy. It’s also concerning that malware is now being used to create power failures that can have life-and-death consequences for large numbers of people.

    Rogers continues on to the strategies the cyber attackers used, where the goal was not just to knock out the power grid but to watch the response and to learn how to slow down that response to restore power.

    He then states “Seven weeks ago it was the Ukraine. That isn’t the last we are going to see of this. That worries me.”

    The eventual attacks against the U.S. power grid is not Rogers only concern as he then speaks about “data theft” and the potential to cripple the nation’s financial institutions as he asks “what happens when that same activity is used to manipulate data or manipulate software or products and suddenly we can no longer trust the data we are visually seeing?”

    “What are going to do as a society when you go to your bank account, and the numbers don’t match what you think is reality?”, Rogers asks. “What do you do if you are a business and the financial transactions you have created, that you’re seeing don’t reflect what you believe reality is?”

    The third and final area that concerns Rogers is “to date, most non-state actors have viewed cyber as a tool to recruit, to spread ideology, to generate revenue, to coordinate widely dispersed individuals. What happens when some of those same actors use cyber as a tool for destruction?”

    The quoted statements referenced above come at about the 28:45 minute mark when he details his big three concerns going forward.

    Because we at ANP believe that knowledge is key, and preparation for the type of event that Admiral Rogers tells us is coming, is critical to surviving not just a lights out scenario but any type of “event” where food will be scarce, grocery store shelves empty and basic necessities unavailable, below the video is another set of links to sites that offer tips on prepping.

    Report originally published by All News Pipeline

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      1. I can’t wait till it all goes dark.

        Push the button Snake. World code 666

        • A major cyber attack makes more sense to me than an EMP. I’m not saying the EMP not happen. I do think a cyber attack on power plants, financial institutions would be much more draconian in the effects, while being easier to pull off from a cushy chair in remote China, or some other foreign country.

          • Can anyone recommend good novels involving cyber attacks rather then EMP attacks?

            • Yup, “Tar baby and Brer’ Rabbit”.

              • Don’t throw him in that briar patch!

                • Si’ that black bastard wouldn’t go to Reagan’s wife viewing. Fuck that corn -row headed bastard. And the corn row headed wife he’s reportedly married to. Both should be cleannin’ up somebodies kitchen they’re beholden to.

                  • They are just another black family in government housing lol.

                    • You racists pieces of shitts, lol.

                    • (((( LMAO ))))

                    • Genius,
                      That may be the funniest thing I’ve heard in a while.

            • M: I don’t know of any off the top of my head. I like dystopic fiction and science fiction and have read both of those genres for my entire life.

              I can say that I do have a list of books I have read in the past few years that talk about when society is disrupted.

              “Locusts on the Horizon” is my favorite.

              “Civil War Two” was a big wake up call.

              The Wool Series by Hugh Howey is probably the very best dystopic series I have read in the last 5 years.

              “Enemies Foreign and Domestic” by Matthew Bracken is probably the most realistic fiction series about what could happen if the liberals get their way in the US. Terrifying.

                • I don’t see any articles mentioning it, so I will:

                  Patriots being arrested en massé


                  There are more. It’s here.

                  • ht_tps://www.oathkeepers.org/two-more-bundys-arrested-the-mindless-unconstitutional-government-rolls-on/

                    • I wish some hackers would post the names and addresses of these agents.

            • Muddy:

              Have you read “Apocalypse Drift” by Joe Nobody? The Chinese raid the IRS and issue themselves a bundle of checks and start a financial collapse that transcends into other bad things. Actually sounds like a very plausible operation.

            • Muddy.
              The closest one I can think of is,
              Book 1, The Borrowed World
              Book 2 Ashes of the Unspeakable
              The author is Franklin Horton
              Story line is an attack on the U.S. imfrastructure.

              • Well, there was a neat book i read 30 yrs ago., not about a collapse, but about a future society. It was called
                The World Inside. Might be out of print now don’t know. It was about a society that lived in 500 storie buildings and each floor was a particular city. Like one was NY another was San Diego, another was Buffalo, you get the idea. People only lived in these buildings. They were not allowed to go outside the perimeter. Outside the buildings was massive lands that farmed to make enough food for all the people. If you did some horrible crime you were thrown outside to fend on your own. People would like say they were going to NY city to party, and they would go on floor 332 or whatever. The people were happy. Each family had a big room that held all their deceased all the way back so they could see their ancesters.

                This room was an ice room and very cold so the bodies stayed in pristine condition. They wore clothing and were posed in various ways. Well, one day the power went out for a real long time and the bodies started to melt and rott. Eventually a man invented another way to preserve the family. He found a way to reduce the bodies into tiny flat forms that were put on a stamp and then into a family album. Sounds gory, but it was a great book. I wish i could find it again.

          • Who says that it would be a foreign country or agent doing it? Some people say that ‘stuxnet’ was CIA.

            • Exactly Roberto, This Video Speaker acts like we are such a victim to digital terrorists. The US Gubberment’s hands are just as dirty as the next. And for a fact, hack into every orifice it can worldwide doing the same thing. They hire White Hat Hacks and pay them well to destroy other Country’s infrastructure and manipulate public opinion with phony propaganda. And we wonder why they hate us or want to attack us? And guess who pays for that? Yep the US Tax payer, you and I. I’d like to throw all the bums out into the ditch and let the fascist corporations pay to protect their own data, not using tax payer funding.

              Much of the hacks and digital and intellectual property theft comes from employees that work in the same building as the Company they are stealing from. The Chinese and Israeli’s are notorious for that and sell the data back to their home countries. And these Corporation love to hire these dual citizen H-1 Visa applicants to work for them..Stupid is..

              Chinese and Israeli’s are groomed from youth to go to the US as Student Spies, set them up with a wife and family and resumes to get hired by these companies. BTW/These phony budgets are also for paying these hired hacks to infiltrate others, not just protecting our own companies or grids. That’s a fact also, but the speaker in the video will not tell you that. poor us. Much of it is Propaganda BS.


          • There is one major difference between a cyber attack and an EMP: where all the voltage is loaded. In a cyber attack, it is back-loaded, and that’s where you see the big difference between the US and Ukraine. The nutshell of a cyber attack is to create enough voltage to shut down the grid. The US has put the money into the systems to detect the build-up in voltage while the Ukraine probably put next to nothing into those systems.

            In a cyber attack, the sensors in the system are going to read that build-up in voltage in real-time, then take protective measures fractions of a second before it slams the grid. You will get damage, but it won’t be catastrophic damage.

            EMPs are a totally different animal: it’s front-loaded. There is no build-up. The voltage slams your grid immediately and with full force. Your grid is literally toast before you even know what happened.

            You mention something we all really need to pay attention to on this topic: power plants, especially nuclear. One thing that remains the same, whether it’s cyber or EMP, is the SCRAM. That’s when the control rods slam into the reactor core. Once the power cuts out, SCRAM happens. It’s what happens after the SCRAM you need to worry about, and that’s putting water on the core and the spent fuel rods to keep them cool. If you’re not able to put water on the core and spent fuel rods, you’re going to have meltdown soon after your back-up battery power and back-up diesel supplies run out. Depending on how well prepared the plant is and the exact circumstances that knocked out the grid, you’re talking about a 10 to 24 day window before you’re looking at meltdown.

            I’m in partial agreement with you on cyber in that it makes sense from the standpoint that just about anyone can do one, but if someone is intent on going that route to take out the US grid, unless they are professional-grade and state-sponsored, they’re not going to get the job done. EMP is immediate one-shot kill. You EMP someone, you just finished him permanently. Look no further than North Korea. They have EMP capability in the form of satellites that really are EMP weapons. You don’t need a big, fancy missile program. All you need is something good enough to get the EMP into space, and you have just leveled the playing field.

            That’s why when I prepare, I prepare to EMP level. Anything else comes along, I can always dial things back to the appropriate preparation level.

            • PF: I agree with everything you said.

            • You can never have too much candles, oil lamps and solar lights. Get em cheap at walmart….the small tea light ones and you can use them to put under your small camp stove to heat up water. I like to keep a small outside grill too and it only needs sticks if out of charcoal.

            • Stuxnet spoofed the computers into believing all was A-OK.

          • I agree on cyber and emp analysis. Both would be equally as fatal and devastating as they would have the same overall affect. None of this is new at all, and this guys comment
            ““what happens when that same activity is used to manipulate data or manipulate software or products and suddenly we can no longer trust the data we are visually seeing?” is already here daily ? we are spoon fed lies and distortions already enmasse. The answers to prepare for all of it and avoid as much negative fall out as possible in your own sphere has always been same for years now. And most so-called prepper sites do not put out those details or answers. They are consumed in hoarding beans and bullets and little else beside selling you more unnecessary junk. There is a much better way and most of it is FREE !

            • Another point, isn’t this scenario the perfect setup for martial law to be imposed ? And the gov would have credible deniability built into the cake ? and why would anybody believe exactly what an NSA chief says as if it were the entire complete truth of the matter ? Is he leaving out the fact that it is possible that such an event would be allowed or even orchestrated by the control freaks we call our government as a giant false flag event ? Gotta wonder for sure ? Remember we were given almost 2 years advance warning from the Russians on the Boston boys and we did nothing except watch it all unfold ? And 9/11 is full of holes and we do not have the full truth of that matter either. This scenario plays right into Martial law and right before the coming election. It also works out to be the economic RESET I have spoken of often. This would solve all the theft and many crimes committed because they would all be erased . Most here in USSA would beg for ML because they are afraid of their own shadows. San Berdoo proved that in spades ! It would also be a way to confiscate all your guns and weed out what they perceive to be dissenters or supposed trouble makers/terrorist. Time will tell , Hey ? I do not trust any of them as far as I could throw them.

              • D2E
                I think you are right on. My older brother has been saying the exact same thing for a couple years now.

              • I’m with ya, I seem to be more skeptical of the governments intention each and every day.

          • If USA suffers a cyber or EMP attack, it will be at the hands of our current government.

        • Anybody else have a smart meter on their house?

          I think that will be a major flaw in security. I understand the power company can shut the power off to your house for non-payment with out ever coming to the house and pulling the meter off.

          If they can shut it off remotely, then so can hackers.

            • Ain’t “Journey” without Steve Perry. Fuck the chink. Journey is dead. Steve’s voice is dead due to age. They’re done, “Shoulda been gone, …..

              • I agree lol.

                When the lights go down in the city
                And troubles on the waaayy
                I won’t be in no stinkin cityyy
                I’l be out and on my waayyyy

                • Liked ‘Sheri’ better. “Shoulda been gone knowin’ how I made you feel……Shoulda’ been gone after all your words of steel”……
                  Was a connection one time long ago.

              • actually Perry is coming out with new album this year

          • 11kw solar power system here. Turn it off, I won’t miss it that much.

            • You do know that almost all Inverters made these days have built in ZIGBEE compatibility and can be turned off by the utility or in this situation the hackers. You do Know this. Yes?

              • Ed, does it have to be connected to internet?

                • They are wireless.

              • Outback GTFX inverters. All I have to do is flip a breaker and they are isolated from the grid….another set of contacts internally closes, and the power flows to my transfer switch, then to my off grid subpanel.

                Very worst case they somehow manage to damage them while still online (or EMP/CME burns them out), I pull out my spare set from their Faraday cage, replace the damaged ones, and go back to production.

          • And you can just yank the thing off and toss a couple of buss bars on.
            I sure you guys have heard about all the H1-B visas. A lot of them are going to guys from India and Pakistan whom happen to be working for the Utilities….

          • Finally. Someone who can see the angle. Unfortunately I have a Smart meter. I fully Expect for em to shut off the juice to keep the riots going. Best have some sort of BACK UP.

          • JS: no, thank god.

        • You know the US Government finds trillion of dollars for bombs and death hardware to commit Genocide, and creates hate called blowback against our country, but our electric grid system is on the verge of collapse and no money is around to fix that. Its all a scam to fleece taxpayers. The Military is just interested in taking control of the Power Grid to expand their grip on the populace for NDAA and expand their Budgets. If the Government is in control of it, is over priced by 2 to 3 times. We need to cut the Military Budget in Half and use that money to fix our infrastructure, roads, bridges and grid.


          • I really do think that the gov. does not care at all about the people/masses. They already have their underground bunkers filled with food and other needed items. Why would they give a shit about the people? I believe that is why they are not concerned or preparing to harden the grid. They know it will happen someday and are prepared….to go into their bunkers….

            • Marie, it looks like you like to read. The Wool series by Hugh Howey talks about 50 government built silos and what happens after a nuclear war. Great series and worth taking the time to read. I have read it twice, so far.

        • It is very hard to take the AMP website serious . Last summer they posted many stories about Jade Helm. Many stories talked about the use of Blu Bunny ice-cream trucks being used to transport the dead bodies of Americans who will be standing up the American troops. Their articles said that the troops were going to slaughter American citizens during Jade Helm .
          I read allnewspipeline.com ,but take it with a grain of salt.

      2. So the asshats are setting the stage!!!

      3. Even if you are not in a position to go completely solar, this is why you should at least have a few panels and an inverter put aside in case such an event happens. Backup solar generation is quiet and shouldn’t draw too much attention when compared to a gasoline, diesel or wood gas generator. If you don’t have the money to buy a pre-built system, you may still be able to cobble one together from reject cells for far less money. Add in a few marine batteries or even some used hybrid car batteries and you could at least have enough energy for things like refrigeration.

        • Better pack it all away in a Faraday cage or something similar, just in case.

        • There are many schools of thought on this. Most people aren’t electrical engineers, so they either go cheap crap(harbor freight), or go with state of the art fancy beyond all necessity systems sold at Home depot. There is a whole world of advice on what to do on the web for solar, it is almost a religion with some people.
          My generic advice; low frequency inverters( you may have a neighbor like me that can fix them), Korean panels, American designed PWM charge controllers(Midnight solar, Outback etc.), and don’t buy cheap batteries! Expect to pay more for batteries than the panels and inverter combined. If you are not willing to babysit batteries, get AGMs, but if you don’t abuse or overuse, flooded batteries can last 10 years or more, but you have to treat them like a newborn baby.

          • Rellik: I lived across from a Home Depot a few years ago. One day the lights went out and stayed out. It was summer time so unusual for a power outage in my area. I walked across the street to the Home Depot and it was closed but there were lights on. It was a weekend. The store was closed so I walked around the garden area to figure out how there could be lights on in the Home Depot but the entire neighborhood around it was dark. To my surprise there was a huge generator behind the store. I mean huge. I remember thinking, “WTF and why does Home Depot have a massive generator out in back for one fricken store?” I still don’t have a good answer. Folks may want to walk out behind their Home Depots and see what is stored out back.

            I worked around portable generators during my time in the military. They are noisy, prone to failure, and needed constant maintenance. The only other time I remember seeing huge generators was at a remote tactical nuke site. There were two diesel train engines out behind our barracks. Outside of the 12-foot fence, wrapped with concertina wire, that was “protecting” us. I was out on a hike outside of that stupid fence which I hated and there was a perfect trail outside the fence, all the way around. I wouldn’t call it a hike as much as a stroll in a park it was that good of a trail. Well those train engines weren’t there to keep the lights on at a remote site (about 200 troops) nor for the cooks to be able to make meals. (We could have hooked up one portable generator from the motor pool to do that, easy enough!) Those engines were there to be able to power up the nukes for launch in case the Russkies attacked. The chilling part, for me, was that if those tactical nukes had been launched they would have probably killed everyone at that location. Collateral damage.

            Anyhow, I respect this Commander for speaking out (as much as he is able) to try and inform those willing to listen. Rare amongst today’s active-duty command staff.

            • Smart thing is to have a backup generator; haven’t you seen them advertised for homes yet? The rich will buy them, they’ll also stick out like a sore thumb when everyone else’s lights are out. Good for preserving food, bad if trying to lay low in a shtf scenario.

              • Very curious to see one parked behind a Home Depot. It was bizarre. And the thing was almost as big as the diesel train engines parked at that remote location I served at during the Cold War. Just too weird and nothing I ever expected to see.

                Maybe the moral of the story is stay inside your house, don’t walk around? LOL! Reminds me of “Apocolypse Now” and the chef that screams “never get out of the boat!”

                There are some things that stand out in stark relief on my mind and memory and there is no reference point. Or the reference point is so freaking weird I don’t even want to go there.

              • Nels: yes, of course. But this wasn’t just your normal generator. The thing was HUGE. I mean like enough to run a small city. Plus, there isn’t any food stored at a Home Depot. I could understand a grocery store (or even a gas station) having a back-up generator. Heck, even a hospital. But a Home Depot store? I will go back there and take a picture of it. It was the size of a 20-foot shipping container (or maybe even bigger).

                Isn’t there a rule for LEO’s about noticing what doesn’t fit in? Notice what stands out? Well I have never seen such a huge generator in a suburban location. Ever.

            • Most large telecom sites have MASSIVE generators and fuel supplies. I plan on raiding the diesel from these baby’s when it all goes dark. Most cell and transit sites only have small battery backups. One can also drain transformer oil and use as fuel for generator or vehicles.

          • Oh, I’m not an electrical engineer either. I’m just a fast food worker with a penchant for tinkering and a desire to learn anything technical that I can get my hands on. One of those things right now is electronics and solar power. I am planning to try to build a solar panel or two by myself to see if I can do it and then go from there. I figure a 60 watt panel should run me around $30-40 in materials (factory seconds for the cells (40 for $15), old commercial flourescent ceiling lights for the frames, plus tabbing wire and bus wire and some diodes and an old projection TV from the garbage for the fresnel lens). The inverter is what’s gonna kill me, but I’ll cross that bridge when I get there and the panel passes the Harbor Freight multimeter test. If I wait until I can afford professional stuff it will never get done, so I just leverage my intelligence and willingness to fail to try and improvise. I figure that right now I have inexpensive access to the accumulated knowledge of mankind, so I might as well use it. Learning how to build solar panels and control systems is easy enough, it’s doing the actual work and researching the cheapest way to get the basic materials that can be difficult.

            (BTW, Ebay and Aliexpress FTW! Without them I could never afford to experiment. China may suck, but man do they keep the cost of raw components down when you buy from sellers in Guangzhou and Shenzhen.)

      4. I can just see all the stupid sheeple staring at their smart phones, and wondering what happened. And completely helpless, as the eventual slaughter proceeds. Yes, as Ted Koppel and others have predicted, 90% of Americans will be deceased within 6 months after the ‘event’. Its coming! And not with a bang, but a whimper.!!!!!!

        • won’t take six months more like a month or two at the most and that should be considered very important info ! It will define who lives and who dies. There will be a period after the initial carnage and that is when it will be very dangerous to resurface. The weak will be the first to perish and of course the stupid. But like every event there is no guarantees, just better odds.

      5. Oh boy, it should surely be interesting my friends . . .make sure you are prepared at least a bit, food, water, ammo and yes a few guns!!

        • None of that will do you much good unless you are healthy, fit and strong and know how to use all of it very effectively ! Someone stronger and more healthy and fit will simply take it all away from you. Remember 70% + are either overweight so it affects their health or outright obese ? And how many drug addicts and alcoholics in USSA today as well as other maniacs? That is one hell of a lot of people with far lesser chances to survive and thrive.

      6. What a great way to set up a ‘black swan’ incident, especially if it affects the banking system, and at the same time seize the wealth of the people, do away with cash, and continue shredding the Constitution. People will be very afraid and do what ever they are told.

      7. General question: When the power goes out what would be the three things you would want to have power for?

        • Communications, refrigeration, a 1 million volt electric fence 🙂

          • I have some coal/wood powered freezers if you are interested. No kidding.

        • Water Pumping, Lighting, Refrigeration.

          2nd Tier: Communications, Clothes Washing, Cooling

          • I’m in your corner on water pumping and I’m in Genius’s corner on communications. Water pumping is huge. When water treatment plants don’t have power, you have back-flow. That means sewage goes back into the waterways in reverse from the treatment plant. That equals massive disease outbreaks. As for communications, information will be at a hefty premium in any grid-down situation. Prime Entry Point radio stations should remain operable for some time after the fact, and would be one of, at most, a handful of information avenues.

            • Sewer and water treatment plants are not connected in any way. In fact they go to great links to make sure there can be no crossover. I know, I built both of them for 30 years and am an expert in such events. There is a very simple way to provide all of your water needs and it is incredibly cost effective! and it is NOT a Berkey or other expensive device that will plug up easily with lesser than pristine tap water. And if we have an actual real emergency like a cyber attack or EMP we will not have pristine tap water, simple as that !

              • Down to earth
                what simple way?

                • Gravity fed coconut charcoal. it is all at my site ! very cost effective stuff and it has many other uses as well.

          • RL: nailed it. That is my list too. Oh, for cooking / heat / AC.

        • Power to run water systems and sewage(collectively or individually); power necessary to run heating systems in very cold weather.

          Anything else is extra-nice to have but not critical

        • Power to run water systems and sewage(collectively or individually); power necessary to run heating systems in very cold weather.

          Anything else is extra-nice to have but not critical

        • Refrigeration, lights, some power tools, clothes washing….all the things that made the 20th century a whole lot easier than the previous ones.

        • Got out
          Freezer and refrigerator

        • Nothing. I am poor. I can’t afford to go high tech so all i can do is go low tech….candles, oil lamps, oil, mathes. In summer i will grill outside, but if the smell of food reaches people i’ll have to do it inside using a tiny camp stove i bought which uses candles. In winter i can keep some food outside, but screwed in summer, unless i dig a deep hold and keep food there.

          • I also have an old fashioned well pump and a hose connected to it. Want to get a better one, but well is under house and a handle pump won’t reach. Trying to figure out what to do. There’s a pipe pump cheap for $70 at http://www.emergencywellpump.com. Will hold almost a gallon of water. slide it in, it fills up, take out and pour into a pail. I don’t think it would fit under my porch though. But would be good for someone one else. Another for $47 at
            http://www.survivalunlimited.com. I wanted that one, but the handle would not fit under my porch.

          • Marie, you can’t be that poor. You have access to the Internet and some type of computer or device to post here.

            Poverty is a state of mind. I was raised, and taught, that poverty is never an excuse. It just means you have to be smarter than most folks and reach out and ask for help. You sound smart to me. Maybe a little shy. So? Get out of your comfort zone. I bet there are people just waiting to help you, all you have to do is ask.

            Also, try teaching others your skills. Figure out a way to market your skills and teach those skills to other people. You are in the right place. The Internet.

      8. Mankind becomes his own worst enemy when he becomes a Slave
        to his own Inventions.

      9. Exactly why I am off the Grid using Solar Power.

        Lots of consideration when buying parts for a solar system. Try to get all the same identical panel sizes and brands. Make sure all your battery cables are the same size in length when connecting in series and parallel, Make sure all your batteries are fully charged to the same level before hooking up. Go with a Outback-80=$500 controller, and An Inverter like a 3000 Watt / 6000 Watt Peak from Harbor freight. $235. Just a lot of info to consider before you try to hook this up yourself. Genius could add a lot to the info for these systems. I am trying to put together a full complete list of all the components and costs to run a small cottage or cabin with a small fridge. Get rid of these automatic coffee makers, major power drains. Use propane to heat up your water in a steam pot and pour over your grinds filtered into a cup for coffee.

        Avoid phony over priced marketed units like $1600 Goal Zero Yetti= Its Pure Junk, as 2 Boulder 30 watt panels will never fully charge the 100LB Yetti battery bank. The smaller Goal Zero cell phone bugout bag 2-4 folding panel units are OK.

        The sooner you get off the Grid, you will feel more free and liberated. I have had NO Utility Bills what so ever for a full year now at my BOL.


        • The harbor freight inverters arent any good. They are ok for firing up your microwave of charging your lap top but under constant usage the MOSFET’s just over heat and cook.

          • I have been off grid for 3 years now, started with a modified sine wave cobra inverter 2500 peak watts. Switched to an Aims 3000 watt / 9000 peak inverter charger I run a generator in the winter some days and it has an automatic transfer switch(which is awesome). The Modified Sine wave blew up my smoke detectors and my oven control panel. everything else did alright. The outback charge controller works great, I have an outback 80 and will be getting one more soon. I have 5 24v 220 watt panels hooked into it and a 6th one that is waiting on the charge controller. Our Battery bank is 8 Trojan t-105s that are babied. Next bank I think we are going to go with surrette rolls. The kw savings of a small fridge vs a full size fridge is pretty small. If you can make 1 kw per day you can run a newer full size refrigerator.

            • Got out, I have a question for you. If you are running a full size refer then how low does your voltage get before the sun comes up?

              • Yeah its a full size GE I think its 18.2 cubic ft. its an energy star but I know we didn’t pay more than 600 for it. Voltage went to bed last night voltage 12.4 wake up voltage 12.05 sometimes its as low as 11.90 depends on how much sun we get the day before and how much the furnace runs, our primary heat is woodstove but we have a wall furnace that will kick on around 4 am.

                • Got out, I hope you know that discharging your batteries that low will shorten the life of them. The deeper you discharge, the shorter the life. Most battery makers recommend not going under 50% discharge which in a 12 volt system is about 12.2 volts. I also have a 12 volt system and I never go under 12.4 volts. If you have a 1K system it should handle charging a 1500ah battery bank so when you upgrade your batteries I would go for close to that mark to extend your battery life. Also running your batteries that low will increase the danger of them freezing in cold weather and that will destroy them. Just an FYI, I hate to see you lose your power.

                  • yeah when we first started out I was using way less power, but we kept adding on (bigger fridge, furnace). One of the reasons why we went with the t-105s was because it was one of the least expensive options that was warrantied. As you know but others might not, once you have your battery bank there is no way to add to it. I was also considering splitting the system and getting a second bank but I think our money would be better spent on a new larger bank. We are saving to buy our next battery bank now so hoping to get a new bank the beginning of next year. Going to save the old bank for something hook in a couple of panels… Might get a chest freezer.

                    • Got out, we posted at the same time lol. If you can’t afford the surrettes then get US Battery, do not buy trojan as I have seen every trojan bank fail prematurely. Heck you might as well run what you have into the ground because you will need them for a core charge for your new ones. The desulphator will help (batterylifesaverdotcom)

                    • I’ll check into the US Battery as well thanks!

                  • But do not add new batteries to your 3 year old ones that will just be a waste of money. Do the trick with the ice packs like I posted and shut your fridge off at night and you will help your batteries a LOT!

                    • G, just re-read your post above and it was batterylife saver that had the bad reviews.
                      And, Got Out, good luck with the Aims inverters. I went through two of them, they were junk for me (3000W pure sine).
                      Search Aims inverter reviews..

                    • Ketchup, wow I am going to az wind and sun and check it out. I KNOW IT WORKS!

                    • The only desulphator they sell is the Solar Converters brand. Where did you see anything about batterylifesaver???

                    • Genius
                      what do you think about AGM Batteries?

                    • AGM are good for people that can’t be around to do regular maintenence (summer cabin etc.). Or a remote repeater site or other uses that cannot be maintained at least every 60-90 days. Other than that they are way too expensive and short lived compared to flooded lead acid which are a lot cheaper and more forgiving and store more energy.

      10. I want my Iphone, laptop, tablet, video games, tv, frozen dinners, and cold beer.

      11. Attaching an inverter to your truck or car can provide some power to keep things going. You have a 15 to 20 gal gas tank. Then you can have a generator and a couple of 5 gallon cans. If you have a second car or truck all the better for gas storage. Mobile too. Solar panels and storage batteries next. Right down to D cell batteries to candles.

        • One thing you can do also for refrigeration is get 2 6 volt deep cycle batteries, 400 watts of 12 volt panels, 1500 watt inverter, 30 amp charge controller and set up the small system and run a chest freezer with it during the day to make ice then put the ice in your food cooler/coolers at night and shut the freezer off. Next day when the sun hits it do it all again. The panels have enough to power the freezer and the batteries provide surge capacity. Or if you already have a refrigerator and you want to run it on solar do the same thing but make ice in the freezer part and shut it off at night and put the ice in the upper shelf of the refer section. Next day put it (ice bowl or ice packs) back in the freezer section and do it again. You would also have enough juice to power a couple small lights (led) at night.

      12. Learn to sit in the dark, listen and be QUIET!

        • But thats when the monsters come out! 😮

          • BOO!

            • AAAAKKKKK! 😮

              • A day without sunshine is like….. Night. ~ Steve Martin

                • Ha ha ha, no shit huh…

      13. Yup
        It is and it will be
        It’s not if … It’s when

        • Its not if,…. But when they decide, they want to bring it all down. Of course when they (TP2B) have all the gold they can buy or steal and all the food and security set up for their BOL Man caves. That’s when…


      14. If the power goes out I’m ready. Still working on the wind mill.

        • Wind power blows lol.

      15. WWTI, Genius, I have slightly different lengths of battery cable on my small solar set-up, (4 golf cart batteries), mainly because at first we had larger 8d batteries, now the new ones are smaller.
        It’s a 3000w system with 515 watts of panels. Works great, but the batteries are new, so how important is the cable length? Should I resize them? A couple would need to be shortened, no big deal but a 2 hour drive to the electric shop..
        Secondly, for home defense, how would a 600 volt electric fence do (made for large animals, horses, cattle)? Would it stop someone or just piss them off?

        • The length of battery interconnect cables are the ones that need to be the same. The cables to the inverter can vary a little. I would resize them soon to keep your batteries as evenly worn as possible. Get a good desulphator too, it will help your new batteries last a lot longer. An electric fence won’t stop any human that has 2 brain cells lol. So you would only be safe from Pissininthewind.

        • Yep I agree.


      16. As for desulphators I think on Northern Arizona Wind And Sun they closed the subject on them. Too many negative comments, most said they don’t work. Same with the reviews I saw somewhere else, maybe amazon. What brand do you use?
        I’ll still hook up the electric fence, though!

        • My recommendation is in moderation. batterylifesaverdotcom go there and read the testimonials. I have been using them for 7 years with fantastic results. You will notice in the testimonials that a lot of them tried other types with little or no success. This company gives you a 60 day warranty, if you don’t have improvement you get yer money back. I use it and I stand by it! It cost about 140 bux (price of 1 golf battery) and will save you 10x that price.

        • I just looked there and they don’t even sell them. They have some other brand.

          • I will check amazon too brb.

            • Amazon had 3 of 11 comments bad and 7 5 star and 1 4 star. The thing is that if these bad reviews were from people that froze the batteries or ran the water way down or a number of other things then NOTHING will fix or help them. They left that part out that probably the reason was these people were too stupid to maintain their batteries and expected a miracle. BUT if it doesn’t work for you IT HAS A MONEY BACK GUARANTEE! You cannot lose! I KNOW it works but then I’m not an idiot who neglects my batteries either lol.

      17. I hear putting timers on the refrigerators and freezers so they run for an hour at night and an hour in the daytime works very well. Some fine tuning for your system may be in order though.

      18. pffssst….I gotta pallet of spam and a case of Ritz crackers that I can eat in the dark.

        • And I have thermal night vision and can shoot you and eat your spam and crackers 🙂

      19. Let’s look at a couple of historical examples of major defense failures:
        The head of Japan’s air defenses committed suicide after the Doolittle Raid caught them completely by surprise.

        The head of Iraq’s air defenses was summarily shot after the Israeli raid on the Osirak nuclear reactor outside of Baghdad.

        So, Admiral Rogers, which will it be if you fail your country in fulfilling your duties — suicide or execution?

      20. “’What happens when that same activity is used to manipulate data or manipulate software or products and suddenly we can no longer trust the data we are visually seeing?’” His government and their hackers already do that. He’s just trying to use it to scare the weak into clamoring for more of his government to make them feel “safe”–while doing more of it to them.

      21. Those billions who mulishly choose to be dependent on the stuff will have done it to themselves by that hidebound choice.

      22. Try two books (for the aftermath) both by Wm. R. Forstchen:
        One Second After and “One Year After”.

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