New Housing Bubble: Prices Up, Ownership Down, Wall Street a Mega-Landlord: “America is Becoming a Nation of Renters”

by | Jan 31, 2015 | Commodities, Forecasting, Headline News | 289 comments

Do you LOVE America?



    Want to own your own home, but stuck, temporarily, renting until you can? You aren’t alone.

    Wolf Richter outlined a pretty eery scenario.

    The 2008 financial Armageddon was in larger part a result of the housing bubble bursting. Thanks to the subprime mortgage scandal, millions of homeowners were put in homes they couldn’t afford, making the awful game of musical chairs an inevitable and tragic charade.

    Maestro to the musical chairs was Goldman Sachs, who unbeknownst to the public, was selling toxic securities for risky mortgages, while secretly betting on the collapse of the housing market. According to McClatchy:

    In 2006 and 2007, Goldman Sachs Group peddled more than $40 billion in securities backed by at least 200,000 risky home mortgages, but never told the buyers it was secretly betting that a sharp drop in U.S. housing prices would send the value of those securities plummeting.

    Read more here:

    Everyone was swept up in the chaos. Goldman Sachs and the other banks got bailed out. The public absorbed the costs, and the Federal Reserve set out on the biggest intervention since World War II.

    Now, Wolf Street is pointing out the effects for today’s housing market:

    The housing market has been healed by the Fed’s bold actions, we’re told incessantly…. Prices have soared over the last three years, and in some cities, like San Francisco, they have soared far beyond the prior crazy bubble peak. So we admit grudgingly that the Fed’s six-year money-printing and interest-rate-repression campaign, designed to inflate every asset price in sight even to absurdity, has worked.

    However, an essential element in a healthy housing market – people who actually live in homes they own – has been dissipating. The homeownership rate peaked in 2004 at 69.2%. It was during the prior housing bubble. Speculative buying drove up prices beyond the reach of many potential buyers.

    The American Dream is dissipating at a record pace, Wolf Richter argues:

    Homeownership in the fourth quarter dropped to 63.9% on a seasonally adjusted basis, the lowest level since Q3 1994, according to the Commerce Department. In all of 2014, homeownership plunged by 1.2 percentage points, the largest annual drop in the history of the data series going back to 1980.

    This record plunge in 2014 hit younger households the hardest. In the age group under 35, the homeownership rate dropped 1.5 percentage points to 35.4%; in the age group 35-44, it dropped a phenomenal 2.1 percentage points – in just one year! – to 58.8%. These are the age groups where the first-time buyers are concentrated. And they’re being sidelined.

    The collapse of the American Dream is accelerating. This is what the “healing housing market” looks like in one heck of a relentless chart. Note the record-setting plunge in 2014:


    That’s because home owners, particularly first time buyers, are being priced out and pushed way, while renters – in both apartments and homes – are rising.

    Since 2008, homeownership has been fading in all age groups. But in these two age groups, it plunged respectively 6 points and 7.9 points!

    And the bitter irony in the report? The vacancy rate in the rental market dropped to 7.0%, the lowest since 1993. America is turning into a country of renters.

    Worse, the wolves on Wall Street have pushed this trend deliberately.

    A host of speculators, private equity firms and Great White sharks have taken their free and cheap money – printed and handed over to them by the Federal Reserve – and used it not only to drive up single family home prices, but to buy them up and force more and more people to choose renting instead of owning!

    The nearly free money the Fed has graciously thrown toward Wall Street since 2008 has fallen on fertile ground. Private equity firms, REITs, and other Wall-Street-funded institutional investors of all sizes have plowed hundreds of billions of dollars into hundreds of thousands of vacant single-family homes, took them off the for-sale inventory, and moved them over to the for-rent inventory.

    This powerful buying spree by mega-landlords, concentrated over a three-year period in select markets has driven up prices and pushed out potential home buyers.

    But these potential home buyers can rent these homes now. An apartment building boom has offered alternatives too, often in central locations, rather than in distant suburbs, reducing commutes and fuel costs and allowing people to live near the urban excitement. Millennials have figured it out too.

    Good thing, if you never wanted to own a piece of the American Dream, since people are being concentrated into the cities anyway. Smaller square foot places, more single people, more dependent than ever on the mega-landlords – who now are trending towards dominating the housing market.


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      1. Gas $1.72 / gal. = Central West Gulf Coast of FL.

        Talked w/ a mortgage broker yesterday. 30 Yr Mortgage @3.5% like Free Money almost. Anybody with a face and has their shit together can buy a house. I close in a few weeks selling my over priced house in the city. Not much for sale all in this area. Strike when the fire is hot. All home owners should always keep their property in top notch condition so that they could be ready to sell in weeks if they needed to. Early bird gets the worm like being first to post here. LoL. WWTI

        • It would be insane to get a 30 year mortgage at 3.5%.

          A mortgage for those terms would be $449.04 per $100,000 per month. You’d pay an extra $53,884 over the last 10 years compared to a 20 year mortgage.

          A 20 year mortgage is only $579.96 per $100,000 per month.

          • Barn Cat,
            I was thinking the same way a few years ago, but I reasoned that we could keep our obligation to a minimum and pre-pay to get rid of the mortgage. We got a 15-year mortgage, and I pre-paid consistently, and paid it off in 7 1/2 years.

            The trick is to keep enough cash-on-hand to pay taxes for several years, since there is a depression coming. With the trend toward deflation nowadays, your cash is going to be valuable until official currency devaluations, and asset values like houses will deflate along with commodities like copper, live hogs, rice, etc. Taxes will have to follow downward home appraisals. At least for the first few years of the depression.

            • Out here the property taxes are based on what the budget needs are, not your home value.

              • How long has it been since we as the people of this fine country seen ANY politicians who are trying to to do anything for the GOOD of the country and its people, there is ALWAYS underlying money benefits to enities other than US! it is about time we the people take our country back and start making the changes to bring our country back to the PEOPLE, there are so many things that need to be changes but a very small one, would be to have you own your property and they can’t take it away for any reason, you still have to pay your taxes, BUT, you own it and it is yours! YUP, i know it will require a major revolution to do what needs to be done, the scumbags are too deeply entrenched in the political arena for it to happen without a major event to start it!

            • I would always get a 30 Yr Fixed Mortgage and just add about $200 a month more per monthly payment and it will be paid off in 15 yrs. If for some reason you lose your job you can just pay the lesser 30 yr pmt. My upcoming property will be paid with cash in full. In Florida its the law that property taxes can not rise more than 3% per year, plus homstead exemption waves property taxes on the first $50K of value and another $25K from $100K to $125K in value. Florida is one of the best states to own proprerty with owner protections. And there is NO State income taxes either. Tourist make that up in sales tax revenue. But don’t move here cause there are bugs and aligators. Ha!!

            • I’ve been perusing mountain retreats lately and came across one that made me wish I was ready to make the move TODAY. Not only was it way up on a mountainside with insane views, but it was set up off grid from the get-go with both propane and wood stoves and heating, solar electric, and so on. Taxes? $43. Not sure if that was a misprint or not…but it might have something to do with the fact that access was “seasonal”, which probably means if you want to get to and from town between November and April you’ll need a snowmobile. Thing is, I could probably live with that. Not so sure about my better half though….

              • Heck yeah Jaxx Go for it. I thin time is running out. Buy more than one lot or acres as then you can chose your neighbors.

          • This whole “system” is insane bud.

            Since you never really own your land due to taxes, that can and will change, why not the old old way? Usufruct title.

            Beyond left and right is the sane vision of our future.


            And our “banking” system is anything but.


            Combined with common sense reforms and building a foundation based on truth, we could take a step forward for humankind for real. Order out of chaos for the rest of us. It is our timeless duty adults.

            • The current “system” would be insane if you did not look at the larger plan. They are using this to move Agenda 21 planning in every state and county. That is the reason roads and bridges do not get repaired and won’t be if you believe Obama. They are building more apartments in cities to move the population out of the suburbs and country and into tightly packed cities. This provides them better control of the population and empties the land. Both are listed as their goals under UN Agenda 21. This is all just a long slow motion push. The people think they decide where they live. But this is an illusion. They are being herded.

          • Let’s get the facts straight, shall we? The original Community Reinvestment Act of ? 1966 was intended to enable underserved populations (the usual suspects) to find mortgage money to buy a home.

            Over several decades, the political vermin mandated that lending standards such as income, credit history, and percentage of debt relative to net income, be gutted. For political expediency.

            Nobody loathes the banksters more than I do, but lending standards that would have prevented “buyers” who had no prayer of qualifying were done away with by statist political vermin. With predictable results.

            Not only that, but activist organizations such as ACORN were given the authority to decide if banks were sufficiently servile to them. They had veto power over bank activities. Banks were required to subsidize scum buckets such as ACORN.

            The subprime rot eventually spread to the A- and A list mortgages. Yes, Wall Street had its syphilitic beak in. But the political vermin created the mess. Then sat back and blamed capitalism.

            People who couldn’t afford to buy a used rice rocket were buying homes THEY HAD TO KNOW THEY COULDN’T AFFORD. “But we couldn’t afford a translator …” If you couldn’t afford a few hundred dollars for a translator how in hell do you think you can afford to buy a home?

            From college graduation to when I was 50 years old, I rented. Saved my money. And invested. And owned that IBM and Merck stock free and clear. Real wealth. When I decided to buy a home, I sold off the worst performing stocks and bought for cash. My own cash. Yes, it was a sacrifice and yes it went against what “everyone is doing.”

            Even though I own “free and clear” in fact I am “renting” my home from the county tax department. Which is theft but there’s nothing I can do about it.

            So I have little sympathy for bovine people who follow the herd and get the herd’s results.

            If you aren’t in the top 5% financially you might want to think about doing what I did. Because if your income is shaky or you have no financial discipline, you might want to think about one thing. A single family residence is not an asset even if you own it free and clear. It is a liability. The purchase price is just the beginning.

            • Nice post. Thanks

            • Good points, JA.

              I have been saying to people for years that an economic storm is brewing.

              How it affects people that plan ahead is the difference of being a slave to the system or not.

              The so-called “system”, is the orchestrated NWO system we have all heard about and read about. It will control people thru different avenues. The two biggest, are the ones that most people do nothing about.

              They are food and shelter. Sounds kinda basic and almost irrelevant when put into two words as elementary as “food and shelter”.

              But, as all you long term preppers know, they are the two most important elements in surviving the coming storm, right after preparations for the soul.

              Housing? Keeping up with the Jones/neighbors/relatives/friends, when it comes to a vehicle is one thing, but a house and land is entirely different. A vehicle can be sold or unloaded in basically, one day. A big house with a big tax burden attached is totally different.

              The property tax burden is what will get most folks. If they are on a fixed income, and have no assets that can be quickly unloaded for those property taxes; guess who ends up owning the property……the county and eventually the banksters/nwo.

              In our county of approximately 70k folks, the larger percentage is either retirees, or people living well off of their ancestors hard work and sound investments.

              Some have inherited huge plots of land and houses. Many have over built because they wanted to be the biggest and best in the neighborhood. Those huge houses will become economic traps some day soon. Oh they don’t see it right now because the markets are doing well and their annual returns are paying all the bills and keeping the tax man away, but when the “investment returns” dry up, the screaming and gnashing of teeth will be heard thru the streets.

              I have said it again and again, DOWNSIZE. That is the only way for most to make it thru without becoming mired down into a muck of burden and enslavement.

              Gold and silver might buy some time, “if” it is not declared the property of the feds/NWO. Property Tax Prepayment, might be one way to fend off the tax man for a while. But, eventually the doubling and in some cases, tripling of property taxes, will be the downfall of the middle classes. If time drags on, the majority will be dragged down.

              Right now, our county sheriff’s dept and jail is doubling in size and scope, of departments/equipment. The debt incurred is mindboggling. All in the name of “security”. The locals have been indoctrinated by the images shown from the big cities in the news, and have given the thumbs up for all the expansions. The costs of all those expansions will begin to show up on the property tax bills next year and will get incrementally larger. When hit with a real economic disaster that will put the crash of 1930’s to shame, people will see the reality of living like things will always be good and continue to get even better. It will be a false security nightmare.

              KA_BOOM! Where will you be when the lights go out?

              I’ll be sitting by my little wood stove, stirring my little pot of beans and rice, under my little rusty tin roof shack, with all it’s property taxes paid, and dreaming of that big house on the hill that i used to think was all there was, to happiness. All the while, sitting beside me is my grandpappy’s ole 22 bolt action Remington rifle. still as rock solid as ever, but bearing the scars of many trips afield and decades (nearly seven), of use by only two down-to-earth men, he and myself.


              • PWTW-
                “The costs of all those expansions will begin to show up on the property tax bills next year and will get incrementally larger.”

                Ihave said here many times : Get involved!
                One voice can have a difference at these county and township level meetings .
                Dont let them rail thru crap like this ! Step up and shut them down .
                If everyone would just get involoved at the local level , we could make great changes for the future .
                No matter what you see as a positive future, just take a stand LOCALLY .
                All politics are , in he end, local .
                Dont let them pull this kinda crap.

                • You are right.

                  However, in a county where the majority are “transplants” from areas to the north, and the locals are indoctrinated with the liberal ideology of the modern society, they think like the Washington Liberals that got us into this mess.

                  Even the so-called Christian right has been fooled by the wealth of their ancestors and have become “liberalized”.

                  The majority of the churches nowadays preach the Joel Osteen message of prosperity and these masses see wealth and privilige as blessings, from God.

                  They can’t see the forest for the trees.

                  Rev 3:17 Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked:

                  • “They can’t see the forest for the trees.”

                    And that PWTW is why we no longer participate in organized religon.
                    Jesus makes house calls if you let him in .

                    • And a big Amen! to that, hammerhead.

                  • Joel Olsteen is a Fraud. Just like Religion.

                    Televangelist Joel Olsteen is a con artist!
                    « on: October 06, 2011, 07:58:16 pm »
                    Televangelist Joel Olsteen is just another Jimmy Swaggart with plastic surgery and a Hollywood tan. He brings in $90,000,000 per year to his church, and I’m sure much of that money gets pocketed amongst him and a few dozen people in his inner-circle of fraud. And don’t forget how many millions he makes from selling his silly “motivational” books.

                    This charismatic con artist needs to be sent to federal prison to fraud, embezzlement, as well as a mile-long list of other financial crimes. I feel NO pity for anyone who is dumb enough to follow, and give money to this fool. Perceptive and informed people such as myself (and readers of this forum) can easily see through Joel Olsteen’s fake smile, his fake personality, false promises, and stone cold greed.

                    I’d have to say that 99.99% or even 100% of ALL televangelists are frauds who are interested in nothing other than just making a lot of money. I have no idea how Joel Olsteen has been able to get away with his racketeering empire for so many years. We can only hope that Joel is caught red-handed in a hotel room doing drugs and having sex with prostitutes, just like “man of god” Jimmy Swaggart.

                    Joel Olsteen and his family are easily worth over $100,000,000 in ill-earned wealth. And like most wealthy criminals, he’s living the high life off of scamming thousands of stupid and gullable people out of their pensions and life savings. Joel Olsteen is a pathological megalomaniac who belongs in a federal prison cell for a VERY LONG time!

                    The FBI and United States Secret Service should start investigating the financial activities of televangelists, I assure you that they can nab hundreds of them for fraud and embezzlement and then send them away to prison where they belong.

            • In general JA is semi correct. For the most part what I believe we are seeing is communism/socialism rearing it’s ugly head in America straight across the board. By demonizing the standards that made this country great, the commy/socialists are able to effect change. It’s a mentality, social norm type of thing. 30 years ago if you told some heifer you wouldn’t pay for her 6 kids, housing and car, you would have been politically, morally and ethically correct. Social services gets the kids and the heifer hits the streets. Social norms back then mandate that you take care of your own business. Today if you were to deny “entitlements” to said heifer, you would get the standard buzz phrases such at racism and the golden child of buzz phrases for this particular issue “how dare you deny me my reproductive rights”.
              E0CC has added to our misery by forcing public companies to place substandard and unqualified people in positions in their companies based on the color of their skin. 30% mexicans in your area, you better have 30% mexicans in your payroll or you get a hefty fine. I’ve personally seen people get vaulted to management positions who could scarcely use email. So now in order to cater to the PC social norms, our companies are forced to deal with substandard employees, of any color, and deal with the “low performance” burden that is placed on coworkers and eventually the overall performance of the company. So instead of applying standards to employees, companies are forced to apply heavy weight to ethnicity instead of quality. Low quality employees yield low quality results.
              I watched some recent college grad on TV the other day stating that the gov should “forgive” college loan debt. This is prima facia evidence that communist/socialist mentality has finally perverted the minds of our “best and brightest”. An entire generation has fallen to the welfare mentality state of mind. We’re in for a long and painful reset. Took 30 years to get here. It will take 30 years to undo all the damage. If we can fix this problem at all.
              Housing…. we’ve allowed large numbers of “subprime” loans to large numbers of people who never had a chance of repaying and astonishingly, many are going into foreclosure. The reason, we lowered standards to cater to the whims of political correctness. Here’s an article that gives the stats and analysis. Pretty heavy reading however.

              ht tp://

              Bottom line to the Sunday morning rant…Its all about standards. According to the article, I have discovered that I’m no longer white but instead, I am now categorized as a non-hispanic white. It appears that we’re moving to even remove whites categorically from anything we do in America. We’ve lowered “white” standards to the point where we now are operating like a third world nation. All to keep subcultures in America placated. And yet the subcultures are in fact the very reason for most of the turmoil in this country.
              “Standards” in America are essentially color neutral. “You want a $50K house,here’s what you need to do. You want a $200K house the standards are higher,here’s what you need to do.” As seen with the subprime circus however, when social norms/standards are artificially altered, the result is an imbalanced system. Be it economic or otherwise. America is way off kilter and it’s going to get worse before it gets better. The only hope we have is to get some leadership with the stones to make the changes needed. Don’t see that happenin’ however.

              • Rednek:

                You had the “stones” to write a great factual post. Thanks!

              • Rednek.

                Wonder what would happen if the government said you have one year to get your shit together. After that, No More Government Assistance.

                No more Jobs. The Banks Close and we all head down to the FEMA camps.
                Good post.

                • Well Slingshot to answer your gov shutting off assistance item…I think we would have a nice little civil war to attend. God bless ’em but they can’t feed themselves now, I don’t think they will be able to after the fact. The welfare bunch will come after those who do take care of themselves. That will not be a good day.

                  I’m think I’m going the opposite direction of the FEMA camps to the FRIC camp (Find the Rednek If you Can). Lot friendlier environment for my kind.

            • We did a similar thing except we bought 10 acres with a lake just far enough out of the city to where prices were low. We put a mobile home on it and sat back for 15 years and saved. Just as we had hoped, the city grew and our land appreciated considerably as people spread out as the population grew.

              We sold the place to a family that was going to build a Macmansion for a nice sum. I worked for HP for 26 years and bought stock through their stock purchase program. Sold it when it was at $49.90 and we used that and the profit from the land to build our present home for cash.

              I tell young folks all the time live below your means and save all you can.

            • Over at the daily sheeple; The End Of The American Dream In 22 Numbers.”

          • No, the 30-year is the smart move. Your mandated payment is lower, but you are fully capable of making payments at the 20-year level, or even higher, enjoying the benefits of shorter term, reduced interest costs, but also with the ability to drop back to a 30-year payment for a bit if things get tough.

            Things can change, keep your flexibility open.

            • Smokey,
              you are correct, the 30 year is the best and then you can budget for a 15 year rate and IF you have bumps along the way you can punt and pay at the 30 year rate, only problem is lots of folks just cannot seem to make the bigger payment they just don’t have what it takes to overcome that( spend it all problem)

      2. Kids 30 years and younger already have Mortgage Debt Paments. Its called Student Loans. And that reduces the pool of eligible first time home buyers down considerably. FYI- Today, 50% of all home sales are purchased with 100% Cash down with no mortgage.

        • Gotta make sure them thar leftist profs are making good dough and get to retire at age 50… while getting their nice sinecure, regular sabbaticals and 20 contact hours per week, IF that much….

          Meanwhile, the “Yes we can/Yes we have no bananas” chanters – aka “students” pay for all this, and after getting messed over, still have the ignorance to say “thank you” to their leftist oppressors.

      3. There’s always some money luvin’ speculator rubbing their hands together with glee at the thought of cashing in on the misfortune of ordinary folk. Some of these landlords have a portfolio numbering thousands of properties and an awful lot of them aren’t fit for purpose while they live the high life in their ivory-towers benefiting from subsidised rents. Tis a sign of the times I suppose… A curse be on all their houses.

        • I own at the moment a few rental homes. They are older but have improved them to be quite livable. I have owned a few others over the years. Even when they are 100% paid for, when you factor in taxes, often double of owner occupied, insurance, repairs, possibly a month or more a year empty, etc. Others of you that own rentals please chime in. Hopefully I am not just missing the boat. Seriously, it is hard to find an investment that pays great returns with little or no work or risk. Some tenants, not all, are absolute trash and it is hard to weed them all out before they are in.

          • Mac;
            A while back I started entering my name and an e-mail address and lo and behold my comments were posted immediately! I could make stupid comments and be ridiculed for them at the speed of light. Now I once again get the does not recognize your name etc. What am I doing wrong?

            • Skeptic – I am not sure why this started happening — If you post with a link in the comment it forces moderation in the system, but otherwise your comments should be showing up without moderation. Let me know if it is still happening in a couple days and I will dig a bit deeper if I can.


          • The first question you should ask is “Do you own a vacuum?” The answer will tell you volumes about the prospective tenant.

          • I wondered how old ladies could afford to live in New York City on a fixed income. After asking different ones, the home owners had said they moved down to the first floor and rented out the other floors. I thought retirement would mean selling at the higher cost of living neighborhood, then buying at lower cost areas like in the Southern states…. like I learned in college economics for retirement planning. But with housing bubbles going in cycles that went contrary to when I could pull this off, I had to find another plan to use my mortgaged house (liability) and make it an asset. I decided to try to do what the old ladies seemed to have some success at: becoming a landlord. My strong motivation was that as cost of living went up, so could my rents to help me live!!! I have 2 masters’ degrees and am in my 50’s, an age that is not easily re-employable, should I leave my job. Although I am only working 13 hours each week, now! I went without food last year it was a terrible thing!!!! I lost 35 lbs… that was good, though!
            Well, becoming a landlord has changed my life! Yes, there are costly repairs from time to time, but I look at it like someone else is paying for upgrade of my house. Yes, it has been a learning curve and I’ve become better at choosing tenants and making better leases, but the freedom I get is all worth it. With God’s help it should continue. I live on one floor of my three- floor house and rent out the other two. It might not be for people who live in a rural area as they might not get enough interest in renting in order to weed out the best candidates. Let me give some BACKGROUND of my situation:
            I am paying a mortgage for an attached brick house in Brooklyn, NY which has always been taxed as a 2 family, but originally only had a small mother-in-law’s apt behind the garage on the first floor. There must be 100,000 houses like mine (streets and streets, rows and rows all taxed as 2 family with same small apt behind garage) in the whole of Brooklyn that Donald Trump’s father put in around 1941. Most people use the house as a single family, but a few years ago I could see my job cutting back my hours each year, so I closed in the garage and made the mother’s-in-law apartment a large size and moved down there. Also I spent additional $ each year to make the the second and third floor their own apt and it was a slow process, because working half time, I had less and less money to make changes, but as things got done and a bathroom was added (to the second floor -it already had a kitchen) and then a kitchen to the top floor- which already had a bath, things finally got done. I had rented out rooms before the renovations were done and the money slowly came in to finish 2nd and 3rd floor (kitchen and bath). I think it was all worth it. I used to have nightmares the last 2 years (OMG where can I go if I am driven out of my home!!!) and had to be bailed out of foreclosure by a close family friend (before the bathroom on the second floor was put in). When that bathroom was finally put in it allowed me to rent out that floor to pay the balk of my mortgage. I still only work 13 hours per week, but now, finally…. I have deliverance from tremendous stress. I hope this can help someone keep their home. It took me 6 years to get it all finished, but I tried to be a strategist and get things finished in accordance with quick rate of return (rentals). For example, I started the whole thing by paying $2K to have a private entrance go right up to 3rd floor which had 2 bedrooms with full bath, then rented each room out right away in order to give me seed money to continue. God bless everyone. I hope this helps.

      4. People just need to be smart. The few acre raw land I am buying in remote rural area will be off the grid. The power company told me that running power lines to this property wit a 30 ft wide cleared path for the poles would be $1500 besides the cost of destroying 100 ft x 30 feet of woodlands for just the power. This FL County just implimented a 2 year moritorium on their Impact fees a savings of $5K. So I will use Solor power, forget the power company and clearcut rape of the woodlands and use that $6500 to put towards the private well and solar power to run that. When I build the house, I will also put solar power on the south roof. Property Taxes on that few acres of remote rural land surrounded by water on 3 sides is $330 a year. So why live in a congested polluted city like an Ant colony with high taxes, lots of regulations and neighbors barking dogs and cops everywhere harassing you and cameras at every stop light tracking your vehicle movements? Taking the road less traveled is safer. When this all collapses into SHTF, you do NOT want to be anywhere near any hords of hungry welfare EBT’ers.

        • For a lot of people it isn’t good employment, good yearly income, home price or any of that. It is about the FICO credit scoring system….and….what they did to it after the 07/08 economical downturn and the fabricated credit crisis.

          Most people know little to nothing about the FICO credit scoring system or the three consumer credit reporting agencies; Equifax, Experian and Transunion. The big changes in general that happened after the 07/08 debachle were that the stuff on your credit report was judged differently. And differently; meaning the grading became tougher. The other change happened in the banks, you know the people that were bailed out with our money. They raised the requirements to be eligible for a mortgage. So in essence, a double edged sword.

          Examples are that medical debt and student loan debt wasn’t a show stopper and sometimes depending on other factors for the individual, might not hurt your score that bad at all. Not so anymore. An old student loan, dentist bill or emergency room bill that may of fell on you at the most inconvenient time in your life financially can absolutely tank your score.

          AND….the banks used to talk to people, for a sub prime loan, that had scores as low as 580 depending on the specific factors. And I don’t think the low credit score, was in the end, the only problem. The over all price and payback of the loan was in addition with the job losses. Now, I have heard rumors of banks that will talk to those with a score as low as 620, but those are only rumors. For the most part, you can forget a mortgage without a score of at least a 640…..and the % rate will not be as good.

          If you have never had to deal with this, I strongly urge you to run your credit. There are many free credit score checks out there. I think most of you will be amazed. And once you do it and find errors or things that should of been gone from way back…..good luck!

          Your FICO score (tied to your social security number) can make your life more expensive and a living hell!

          I make good money and have very little debt to ratio. I have been battling this battle for 2.5 years….it is an unbelievable mind boggling maddening hell. Let me give you one example and then I am done with anymore specifics. My car was just totaled due to a fire from the seat heaters. The insurance paid the car loan off of roughly 5K left on the loan. When this reported to the three consumer credit reporting agencies, my FICO dropped 26 precious valuable points. WHY? Because the loan showed “paid as agreed / paid account off $5037 – 0”
          I have a newer car with a new loan and that will report to the three, but will not bump score back up immediately. It “may” bump it back up some over time, but I will NOT see it back in one bump of 26 points.

          • BJ,
            Someone I know called their insurance company about a discount due to not putting a lot of mileage on their car per year. My friend was told she would have to install a unit in her car for one year to track mileage. The insurance company will provide the mileage tracking device free the first year but after that there will be an out of pocket fee. My friends potential savings for a year of tracking is about $20 dollars. These insurance companies are scammers and so is the FICO bs.

          • Most jobs now do security checks and one is a check on a persons credit. Known a few younger people who didnt get the jobs because of bad credit. I saw that coming years back and no one believed me. Now we see mandated vaccines in some industries. This aint nothing short of fascism.

            • I have to disagree (somewhat) with credit checks not being a valid indicator of character. Circstances including medical issues and non self inflicted hardships do come up. The employer should take a poor credit history case by case. However, a person who can’t manage his life, rings up debt and bankrupts or has write downs should not be in a position of managing other people. Who needs the drama and distracted employees.
              I own a business with 30 employees. I do take credit issues as a valid indicator of how the person conducts himself. Not everyone with poor credit or even self inflicted poor credit is a terrible employee. There is a correlation with poor personal choices and work performance. Albeit not 100% causal, it is strongly related.

          • BJ. Buying a new car you can purchase Gap insurance to cover that loss in equity and your loan amount. After you pay off enough to have equity in the car you can drp that Gap insurance. Its about $20 a month for Gap coverage.

        • You sure do like to brag on yourself, don’t you? Especially when you can put someone else down in the process. You post your alleged new land deal at least once on almost every article….we know already, good for you, yay! Happy for your good fortune…

          • that was for wwti

          • Respectfully, I don’t agree, Sixpack. This is just a sharing venue, where we are all anonymous. And his critiquing is of the general down drift in the culture, not putting anyone down in particular. With all due respect, I think you are being over sensitive. For me, I appreciate hearing about what others are doing here. It’s all anonymous, so I doubt people are ego tripping with their posts… kinda defeats the purpose, wouldn’t you think?

          • Well Sixpack, Seems about every 5th article here discusses off the Grid and relocation to ideal properties. I tried to sell my city property here several years ago with no luck, so I worked harder getting my property into better shape to sell, and I got an offer the first day I listed it and almost at my full asking price. That’s called success if you work hard and have goals. So if you want to whine about someone else’s success, you may be a little jealous, as it sounds like. You know, if people just want to bitch about everything, or if your situation is miserable, go look in the mirror. That’s probably the main problem. People need to take control of their lives and that comes down to every decision you make,good or bad, that got you to where you are today. That is about being self-employed or punching someone else’s clock to education to motivation and investing in yourself or where you live. If you have a crappy job, go get a new one, if you live in a crappy place move, if you are single and lonely, go get a new hair doo and get out there and meet someone. If you house smells like cats, clean it up. If your income is little, create some other money making opportunities, and have multiple streams if income. Go listen to motivational tapes to give yourself a better attitude.

            I will always love to hear someone else’s success, and know what they did so I could do the same thing for my own success. This site is about sharing information and learning “How TO” and I would think what I am doing will help encourage others to go do the same thing. Everything is possible if you set your mind to it. I set this goal about 4 years ago, and my hard work getting to this point is finally paying off. I wish you success also in what you do, and I could care less if you talk about your cats or chickens in every article. Just saying. If you don’t like it don’t read it. That is also a personal decision.

            • I was being sincere when I said I was happy for you, WWTI, it’s just that you don’t need to take up so much time crowing about it. That has nothing to do with general survival as much as it does your good luck (with obviously a lot of hard work invested).

              Just to be clear, I found THIS particular post of yours, to be one of the most inspirational posts I’ve seen in a while, and you didn’t even have to brag.

            • I personally find your read helpful as my next move would be to do just as you have done….. Buy undeveloped property and do the off the grid thing. I have been looking at property in upper NY state by going on and some sellers are willing to sell with initial deposit w/monthly payments. My only real issue is : Do I keep the my present city property in which tenants support me and buy on time (monthly payments), or do I sell out right and take a lump sum and buy… I only have about $100K in equity so purchase including the house build would have to be modest. I know it all depends on how much time I have before the SHTF. I know that in the event of hard economic times had I kept the rental property the tenants may not be able to pay so I could loose that income and my mortgaged house to boot! However, on the other hand, I am only in my fifties and should I sell and get a lump sum to buy… and that $ gets used up…. well I am back to looking to work for food and other necessities in an economy where no one is hired. Any ideas on this?

        • Thumbs down? Leftist trolls out again, running loose in mommy’s basement.

          • See those red thumbs? Quod erat demonstrandum.

            Leftists are literally too ignorant to know what that means, of course.

            • Pride goeth before a fall. munch, munch, munch.

            • Yeah Test. The haters love to post their childish cartoon red thumbs, They don’t have any brains or skills to actually dispute a comment, they hide like cowards behind their key boards.

        • WWTI thats a good plan my man. Get as far away and off grid as possible. a well there should be what, 5 feet deep lol. Abundant animal life, abundant plant growth, abundant sunshine (for solar). I could never live in florida its too humid and too many bugs. I have made my own comfort zone where I am and continue to improve on it. We all can make the best of our area of life I’m glad to see your an action taker. Your actions will pay off very well, sad to see many people would rather live a life of dependency than do for themselves….

          • Genius, I talked with the “Well Digger Guy” and he said 16 ft down is water, but he said that most of the wells in that area are 100 Ft deep. Most likely hitting the main Aquifer where the pure water is. I also asked him about getting an attached pitcher pump and he said yes, he can do that attached the main well as the pump has a check valve and all you need to do is prime the pitcher pump and it will bring water up. Pitcher pumps are less than $100. FYI -Pitcher pumps are only good if the water table is 20 Ft or less, cause that type of pump just cannot produce enough pressure to raise the water deeper than about 20 Ft, or you are using a well with a check valve. 30 Ft is one atmospheric of pressure, just like scuba diving, every 30 ft doubles the pressure. And why you need to do safety stops when surfacing, so you don’t get the bends or air embolisms. Also check this out- Look up- Water Tank – Water Tote – 275 IBC Tank. You can buy these food grade containers on Craig’s list for about $150, non food grade about $100. I’m buying a couple of these to store water, and may put one on metal stilts about 20 Ft off the ground with a shut off float to avoid over flows, and use it as a Fire Protection with a long hose.

        • WWTI,
          you think it would be better to be in Florida sounded by alligators and pythons on three sides?

          • Old 70 – Sounds like another local source for protein. ha. The Pythons are down in the everglades. They have an open season and bounty on them if you catch them. And they have a Gator hunting season. I look forward to Wild pig hunting. I did kick a deer up on the property. That’s a Good sign. I am going to get me a good crossbow.

            • wwti;
              Florida is a pretty place but if you have water on 3 sides you will have a shit load of moccasins.

        • I guess you better get crackin’, wwti.

          The proposed shtf of the USA economy is coming Sept/oct.

          I guess, with all you have stockpiled, a camper will suffice. Better have plenty of roof seal and a small wood fired stove, and don’t forget the rubber raft for when the floods come. Living in between three bodies of water ain’t my idea of “security”.
          Florida is supposed to become one big swamp when the new madrid blows.

          • Passin, Yep can’t come soon enough. Check out Cracker houses. Was popular back when, before A/C. May get a pontoon boat if a flood comes. ha.. I have a kayak.

      5. You never own your home, ever. Stop paying taxes and you will find out who really owns it.

        • One of the problems w/ typical American culture is this need to live alone and be independent when they cant afford it. Our church started helping some of the young families and singles w/ there budgets. Yesterdday I worked w/ one guy whos 30 w/ a kid. He works 30 hrs a week and makes $10 hour. He cant make it as a single parent who dont get a penny from the ex. He keeps robbing Peter to pay Paul but it dont work out when the big heat bill hits in the winter. He had car insurance due yesterday, gas bill due, and phone bill due. Gas company now wants a $300 deposit since he cant pay regular anymore. His gas bill was a little over $100.

          Helped him come up w/ a budget and held back the tears. One car repair and he’s done. There but for the grace of God goes my own. This guy aint got savings and his family cant help. He cant afford the rent. Best thing he can do is to rent w/ another person to split the rent and utilities. He refuses to take SNAP or other give aways. Our church can only help folks but so much. I did what I could. While he was w/ me, he got ahold of the gas company and paid his bill over the phone but told them he cant pay a deposit because he aint got the money. Theres a few local charities who can lend a helping hand at a time like this but most are only a one time deal and dont involve much money. That guys deposit is more than he clears a week. If his gas is turned off he aint able to heat his place. I told him he needs to to let his landlord know since no heat means frozen pipes and that will cost his landlord, not him. Told him he should ask the landlord to cover the deposit and take it out of his security deposit and help him out since it all affects the rental place. Maybe the landlord will think logically on this one.
          Damn lousy times. Remember not to waste our pennies.

          • CAL –
            Been through this as well with some folks at the food pantry here.Our money is diluted by so many things these days , cell phones , cable tv and internet access , all of which were not concerns 20yrs ago.
            The problem is that we earn the same or less money as we did 20yrs ago.
            Money that was spent on daily bread is now spent on a cell phone or other technology , leaving no savings.
            Technology is great , but it is crippling many people who need to have it to compete in todays world.
            I always reference Obamas FIRST move as POTUS , and that was digitizing TV. No more free television , most companies stopped broadcasting in analog , so now everyone needs to pay another bill to have what used to be free .
            Sad state of affairs , indeed.

            • @hammerhead,
              digital tv is just as free as analog, just need a digital tuner. buy a cheap new tv with digital tuner for the price of one month of cable bill. sure, you won’t get 200 channels, but really, who needs that crap anyways. if out in the country, good antenna company located and built in Wisconsin called ‘digitenna’ ,don’t forget to buy a signal amplifier. you will be happy to call the cable company next month, and drop off the rented equipment.


              • Exactly right, DB I do the same. Our TV is probably (at least is seems like it!)the very first one invented, and we watch it very seldom. However, we get anything we want to watch FREE over the now digital air… including the official Big Brother propaganda channel, PBS. Our cost is zilch.

              • db427- for Mobile or remote Internet – check out MiFi -its WiFi- and creates your own mobile Hotspot to run laptops or tablets with internet. Here is one source.

            • sorry friend GW did it in 2004 took affect in 2009.

            • I can do a ZILLION times more with my money to help the poor, with a trillion times more love and efficacy, for 1% of what it costs the govt. to do the same thing. We have now spent over $20 freaking TRILLION on the war on poverty, the poster child of which is Detroit, in the sister Model Cities Program. Done a lot of good, hasn’t it! A book that is IMHO required reading on this subject is Who Really Cares, by Arthur C. Brooks, from Syracuse Univ. Long story short, leftists do ZILCH (hey, the govt will do everything, so I don’t have to – that is why, e.g., you see the Hollwierd Learjet leftists talk the way they do, but NEVER open up just a single room to just a single indigent person in just ONE of their zillion room mansions as just one example.

          • Oh boo hoo. I’m supposed to feel bad for a guy that works 30 hours a week and can’t pay his bills? I work 50/week to just get by. There are 168 hours in a week. What does he do for the other 138?

            • HooCares, good point. I work 60-70 hrs. per week and do pretty good, especially with no loan or credit card to pay on. If the guy got a 2nd job with just as many hours or more, he would make it.

              • To Maverick(Braveheart), the question is how much extra do you really take home after your taxes for all that extra work.
                Think Galt. Dont give it to the Feds through the sweat of your brow. Give your time to some charity instead. Just a though.

                • So where did Iowa Go? His last post was: “Good Bye” Mac.

            • No one asked you to care. Your free to think what you want.
              This guy has been looking for another job but being a single parent someone needs to be there for the kid and the ex aint in the picture at all. Always harder for single parents than a couple.
              The area where I live sure aint the worst but the open jobs are mostly min wage. Just so you know but I get you dont care. You must like all those taxes coming out of your paycheck. Work harder for those who aint. Theyll take all you got to give. They dont care neither.

              • Calgagus, it’s not that I don’t care and I DO know what he’s going through. From 1987 to 1991 I had to work 2 jobs to pay off on a lawsuit and legal fees but that’s another story for another time. I don’t mean to sound mean-spirited but we are all being affected by this crappy economy in one way or another. I do wish the guy good luck and hopefully things will eventually look up for him. And NO, I’m not happy about giving up all that tax money to the ‘free shit army’ for their welfare, EBTs, Obamaphones, etc. And I know they would try to take more than what they’re already getting. I DO know what it’s like to have an extra mouth to feed being married once. I lost her to a drunk driver.

                • By my calculations 30 hrs a week 10 bux an hour= 300 a week X 52 = 15,600 a year. With deductions for your self and 1 dependent (20,000) you don’t pay any taxes…. He could claim 10 exemptions and still get money back instead of giving the piece of shit govt. an interest free loan all year long.. 🙂

                  • I did say something to him about his taxes coming up. He said he likes getting back $$ since its like savings. Gets that credit for working w/ a child. Didnt think about the exemptions but when I see him at church today Ill see if I can talk to him about that and suggest it. Makes sense.
                    Going to talk to church members about a garden set aside for members to work in, share skills and produce. Were starting up a community meal once a week too. Every little bit helps and builds a stronger group at the same time.

                    Thanks to you all for input. My other comment went to moderation since I forgot to add the email. Thick brain and thick fingers best get more coffee before heading out.

                • Hey Maverick, that one comment was for the other poster Hoo Cares. I know you werent being mean spirited. Understaand why you worked extra to pay extra bills.
                  This is what I wrote you:
                  To Maverick(Braveheart), the question is how much extra do you really take home after your taxes for all that extra work.
                  Think Galt. Dont give it to the Feds through the sweat of your brow. Give your time to some charity instead. Just a though.

                  • Calgagus, that’s OK, I understand where you’re coming from. I do give to a few particular charities on occasion, but ONLY after I have researched said charity to make sure it’s legitimate. Too many scams out there these days.

              • I feel for your friend, Calagus.

                He sounds like a stand up guy. There are tens of thousands just like him out there; and just as many young women. We just don’t hear about them very often.

                It all comes down to “decisions”. We all make decisions that change our lives, and not always for the best. Many lives are spent in heartache and despair because of that one or two moments of lustful pleasure.

                Yep, i said it. Children/babies can be a blessing and a curse. If people would stop and think before they jump into the sack, their life may be different.

                Some say, ” but oh that beautiful little baby would have never been born if they hadn’t……”

                But the reality is…, yes it would. “all” souls will be born/placed, into the wombs of women before the end of this age. some, will just not be born into the breathing bodies we call infants. God places the souls where He wants them. Some take on the characteristics of their earthly parents, but in reality, all souls belong to the Father that created them.

                some souls were too good for this decrepit world and God took them back before they breathed on their own.
                Some souls were denied a life because of their ignorant mothers and fathers/grandparents. But they are very much alive in the other dimension we call paradise. Not as an infant, unable to defend themselves, but as a fully mature adult, as God created them during the First heaven and Earth Age.

                When Judgement day comes, the murders of those innocents must stand before their victims and their Creator, at the Great White Throne Judgment, to explain why they killed that innocent life and prevented it from living a life in the flesh.

                No one gets away with Infantile Homicide! All 54 million in the USA and counting. The Doctors of Death, and the Mothers, for sure. All others that played a hand in that execution will stand trial as well.

                Then! All the …”It’s my body and my choice” chanting bitches, will be silent.

                Read it and weep my friends (and enemies), it will transpire as foretold. PC crap will not escape the wrath and judgments of God.

                • PC crap is an agenda from the progressive commies. I think people are wising up to the PC movement.

                  Funny how the March for Life (pro life) walk in DC was a huge success with over 500,000 people there. Did it make the news anywhere? Beautiful people everywhere, gathered together to share in the right to life, sanctity of life. So many young women there with their hearts and souls in the right place.

                  Never got any msm coverage did it?
                  I have faitht that Roe v wade will be overturned in my own lifetime.

                  • “When the time comes as it surely will, when we face that awesome moment, the final judgement, I’ve often thought, as the late Archbishop Fulton J. Sheen wrote, that it is a terrible moment of loneliness. You have no advocates, you are there alone standing before God, and the terror will rip your soul like nothing you can imagine. But I really think that those in the Pro-life movement will not be alone. I think there will be a chorus of voices that have never been heard in this world but are heard beautifully and clearly in the next world and they will plead for everyone who has in this movement . They will say to God ‘Spare him, because he loved us” God will look at you and say not “Did you succeed?, but Did you try?” Quote by Congressman Henry Hyde

          • You are a good man, Cal. God bless you. Seriously.

            Meanwhile, you have people like my sister, who worked for the gov’t, made a bundle doing nothing, took regular trips to places like New Zealand, China, Egypt, Greece, Europe, retired at 49, lives along in a massive 4,000 sq foot home, lives off your taxes and mine, but of course left my wife and I who work VERY full time (and more) to take care of an aged mother and mentally handicapped brother.

            I salute this guy who won’t take food stamps. Unfortunately, there are a massive number of people who are leeching off the system (the top pension getter in the People’s Socialist Thugocracy of IL is some ex-educator making a HALF MILLION for sitting on his fat arse doing NOTHING. Meanwhile, your friend lives in poverty. The leftist president of College of DuPage – who was taking hunting safaris to Africa on public money, etc. – was finally outed, but still got a public paid golden parachute to leave of $3/4 million to go away. This money is ultimately STOLEN from people like your friend.

            We need to get back to what made the West great. Private sector small biz, freedom and hard work. People like my sister or the College of DuPage president should be stripped of every dime they made off the backs of us working types.

            And yes, I expect to work to 70, and then probably part time after that.

            • @Test
              People like that college president who defraud and pillage should go to prison.

              Seems like your family story is more and more common as time goes on. Always seems to be someone in most families who are self centered and cant be gracious to help family out. To me, someone who turns their back on their immediate family is beyond my ability to understand humanity. If she has a conscience, she will wrestle with this in her aging years.
              What you and your wife have done is admirable. If we cant tend to the needs of our aging parents, we are truly a lost society.

          • “While he was w/ me, he got ahold of the gas company and paid his bill over the phone but told them he cant pay a deposit because he aint got the money.”

            The gas company, just like any other gas/electric utility company, will start to take a portion of his payment and put it toward their “deposit”. He will then owe the amount taken for the deposit on his next bill as a late payment on his actual gas bill, including late fees. I dealt with this issue with an electric company, and learned that it is apparently legal for them to do that, as it is somewhere in the fine print when you sign up for service. He will have no choice but to keep paying unless he can live with the gas shut off. Yet thousands of single baby-mommas with several kids from different “sperm donors” don’t even pay their subsidized utility bills, and they cannot be shut off by law due to having little children in the house.The utility companies recover this loss by charging the rest of us higher rates and fees.

          • Calgagus,

            I know of a lot of young families who are struggling. Even with a good education, the job market is tight.

            I see my grown children struggling. When I go to visit, I bring food, clothing for the kids and diapers for the baby.

            My husband started a new tradition a few years back. Shortly before Christmas, we load the truck and bring food to our kids. If they don’t need to eat it right away, they can add it to their pantry.

            Recently, I had my three year old granddaughter stay with me for a week. On the first day, I asked her what she wanted to do. I expected her to say something like, “play dough, puzzles, paint, or read books.”

            But she said, “Grandma, let’s go to the store and buy lots of food. Then, we can be so happy.”

            I was surprised at her response and wanted to cry. A three year old shouldn’t have to be concerned about this.

            I assured her that Grandma had plenty of food. She remained quiet. So, I said, “Let’s go to the grocery store. We’ll make sure we didn’t forget anything. You can help me pick out some things.”

            Be thankful if you have plenty of food and heat in your home. Help those that you can.

            Keep praying and prepping.

            • The day may soon come, when we tell our Grandchildren that once upon a time in America you could go to the grocery store and buy all the food you wanted without any government permits.

              Aisle and aisles of food, as much as you wanted to buy.

              The children will not believe you.

            • KY Mom, That part of the problem, People start having kids that they cannot afford. Bad decisions one after another and and then expect the Gubberment to fix their own problems. 52% of my property taxes goes for public schools and I never had any kids because I did not want the expense or hassle. So Being responsible I now have to pay for all these other deadbeat parents reckless sex lives who can’t keep their junk in their pants. A lot are uneducated and lazy so they can’t get jobs and they sit home all day having sex and popping out more kids they can’t afford. Having kids is not a career choice that make money. Oh, unless you are applying for food stamps, single mother, benefits or Welfare, then then more idiot kids you have the more money you make. We need to stop rewarding failure.

        • … those property taxes are now partially vested in Wall Street to cover the unfunded pension liabilities that nearly every town,county and state face…

          it’s a vicious cycle..

          and to that have absolutely no answers..


          • I live in an pretty average 2200 sq foot home in suburban Chicago, in the People’s Socialist Corruptocracy of Illinois. I pay $8,000 freaking dollars a year in property taxes alone (plus the just deposed leftist governor raised income taxes 66% a year or two ago. The vile fascists (I use the term fascists literally here – look up the definition) thing they can continue to get away with this… but of course Illinois has had a net out-migration over the past 20 years of 1.4 million. Still, the leftist idiots in the capitol – which has a supermajority of Democrats, meaning the new governor can be over-ridden – continue down their socialist path. Leftist Illinois (which is a red state, except for the Chicago area) , according to credit default swaps is the EIGHTH most likely state, province or country in the WORLD to default, right after Portugal (the Socialist Workers’ Paradise of CA is FAR behind IL, I think around 20 or 25)

            As Bastiat wrote 150 years ago, socialism is the great fiction, whereby everybody endeavours to live off of everybody else. Never has worked, never will work and never CAN work. But I’m sure Hitlery will get it right when she is anointed by the high priests of secular modernism in 2 years…. right?

            • I’m hoping she gets it right—RIGHT BETWEEN THE EYES, that is.

              • Six,
                Like Vince Foster?
                Ooops, he got it behind the eyes…

                • Well, Hitlery SURE got her miraculous cattle futures exactly right. Amazing skill… just like finding those “lost” Rose law firm records.

                  I guess they think we are stupid enough to have forgotten all that… or Travelgate, Bimbogate, selling our high tech to the Chinese for dough (their new stealth fighter is using some of our technology), etc.


                  • Test, remember the Whitewater scandal? The land at the center of that scandal is only 30 miles from where my Dad lives.

                  • but…. she left the White House broke and she believes she is the smartest woman to ever live?

            • @TEST
              $8000 a year in taxes equals exactly $666.666 a month. that alone is enough too (not just spook me out) but enough to get out of dodge. (er.. ill) TEST, use your smarts, I know you have them, to do what you need to do, and do it now, not tomorrow.
              pretty hard to get ahead with paying those devil of taxes.

            • Why do you live there?

              It took my wife and I a few years to research and explore where we were going but we knew it wouldn’t be anywhere like chicago.

              To put this in perspective I paid less in rent for a 1200 sq ft apartment, in a fancy suburb of Atlanta, than you pay in taxes (rent) as recently as the 90’s. Plus my apartment was really fancy, had a real fireplace (the ultimate status symbol in the South as it’s pretty much unnecessary), and was a really short commute to work.

              Of course we still fled and wouldn’t feel comfortable living east of the Mississippi river ever again. Please bug out now to your retreat and get settled.

              • Rebel,
                I’d like to show you a piece of land I am looking at out there and get your opinion on building there.

                [email protected] if you don’t mind

                • I’ll have to get a anonymous email account first. Any suggestions?

                  As an aside I actually own my domain name and my real email is [email protected]. Pretty cool but not so discreet.

            • Exactly why we left Illinois and headed west in 1989.

              We live in a 1900 sq ft home, full basement, on 6 acres, plus have a 27’x 50′ machine shed w/concrete floor, 40’x60′ metal building w/concrete floor, 16’x 24′ garage, 40’x50′ barn, 10k bu grain bin, and my taxes are $1,400. They have dropped from $2,100 at their high about 4 years ago.

            • IL is a flatland shithole. Lived there 10 years and saw that debacle collapsing 25 yrs ago. The entire state is massively corrupt.

        • It’s like serfdom with the banks and government. But at least with real serfdom the local lord had a duty to protect you.

        • “You never own your home, ever. Stop paying taxes and you will find out who really owns it.”

          CORRECT !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

          I bought one house in the early 90’s and realized back then what a joke it is. It’s another Ponzi Scheme setup by the banks and ENFORCED by the US Govt.

          1) Uncle Sam says buy a home and WE’LL give you a tax break.
          2) Most people can’t afford a home so they take out a mortgage.
          3) 15-30 year mortgage essentially pays the BANK 3x the amount of the value of the home. 😛
          4) You can’t buy a house and pay a mortgage without insurance.
          5) You can’t keep you’re home unless you pay property taxes.

          ^^^ This is why I sold my home 2 years after buying it and have rented ever since.

          • Not to mention the “tax break” you get for buying is far less than the additional taxes you end up paying for owning it.

        • Collodial Title

          • BJ-
            I think you ment : Allodial title , right ?
            I have looked into this, its a hard row to hoe .

          • “Pipe dream”

            No longer exists in corporate US.

            Allodial title used to be unencumbered deed to land…it is all the corporation’s land now.

            I hear there may a couple clear deeds in Nevada, but the mafia ain’t telling…they are the BLM.

            • JRS –
              Much like the “land patent” .
              Looked into that one too .
              Got alot of laughs ……….

              But i see no reason to quit tryin.

              • I know personally people who have went down that road and are fine now….they OWN their land.

                • BJ –
                  Please elaborate ,I havent had any luck with land patents.
                  It does help that i also have mineral rights however.
                  Allodial title is kinda a dinosaur.
                  But i,m listening……

                  • Just buy a good size rv and keep moving around public land. A lot of people do it, no property tax or bullshit. Plus your not stuck in any one place if you don’t like it. Travel to mining camps with some hookers and make $$$ 🙂

                    • GENIUS-
                      Just me and couple hundred chickens and half a dozen head of cattle with a couple hookers in an RV ?

                      LMAO , Sounds like a plan…..

                    • Ha ha ha, I can actually picture that scene hammer lol…

                    • Or buy a live-a-board sailboat. Just pull into a harbor and drop anchor. Or pull up to a dock and ride a bike to the grocery store. Only major drawback are storms and hurricanes. lol Then you batten down the hatches. I used to have a 29 ft power boat and used to do weekends on it with full facilities. Never could get a real night sleep, wondering is your anchor breaks loose, or the tides shift or getting grounded till the next time rises. But is was pretty cool waking up to hearing a dolphin on the bow blowing his blow hole. Great sunsets too. Then the price of Gas went up and Got rid of it, just as the Dot com Market crashed. But go with a sail boat you get a lot more boat for the money than a power boat. Sailboats run on diesel.

                  • He went through a lot of leg work, tracking things down and a lot of trips to the court house. He was harassed indirectly quite a bit. In the end he won and pays no taxes on his land, he truly owns and may do anything he wants to on it. Not only does he not pay taxes on it, but no bs laws apply on it. So the allodial title is not a pipe dream for all.

                    I meant that earlier and not collodial….I got a lot of silver today…must have it in the brain.

                  • Why would you want a patent… didn’t invent the land?

                    You just want to be free from overlords and have sovereign natural rights on your land you own.

                    • Do some research ….
                      A land patent is what was issued when the land was FIRST titled. In other words , back in the day when you got forty acres and a mule you were issued a land patent .
                      A land patent will not allow for any tax infringements as the owner is soveriegn .
                      Look it up.
                      Allodial title is for nation states M/L .

                    • Look here , this is a good resourse:
                      ht tp://

                      It will explain it much better than i can.
                      Best of luck !

                    • I was being facetious. A few I know and I have researched this already…..extensively.

        • King
          YUP, that is one BIG thing that needs to be fixed in this (country of the free) is that once you own your property they cannot take it away, you might still need to pay legitimate taxes but, your property should be safe!

        • Yes, but it takes two to three years of nonpayment before they can take it. If you rent, it only takes a couple months before you are out for nonpayment. And you can alter whatever you want in your own home – don’t try doing that with rental property. If you are renting, the owner is passing the tax expense on to you in the form of higher rent. And a lot of renters are trying to save to buy their own place. Just don’t take on more than you can afford whether you own or rent and you won’t put yourself in a bad position when things get dicey.

      6. We all rent from uncle sugar!

      7. All by design.
        The Government has become the biggest mortgage holder in America, thanks to QE1,QE2,QE3.
        When the financial collapse happens, and you can’t make your payment, Uncle Sam will own every home,every business property in America.

        • John says,
          actually it will be the Chinese that will own most of our real estate as we owe them BILLION and Billions form what we borrowed from them back when the collapse happened in the early 1920’s

          • “The largest foreign holder of U.S. debt is China, which owns more about $1.2 trillion in bills, notes and bonds, according to the Treasury.
            Other large foreign holders of U.S. debt include Japan, which owns $912 billion; the United Kingdom, which owns $347 billion; Brazil, which holds $211 billion; Taiwan, which holds $153 billion; and Hong Kong, which owns $122 billion.”
            From About News

            How they gonna cut up that pie ?
            Aint gonna happen.
            I smell default……

        • And that is exactly how I believe they will force us all into the cities. They’ll simply choose not to rent, lease or sell all the property they own, leaving most with no choice.

      8. There’s nothin’ new under the sun… The same thing is going on this side of the pond. There’s a large demo being held in London today against the huge cost of mortgages. The average house price is now 16 times the average salary forcing thousands into a sub-standard short term 6 monthly leases in privately owned rented accommodation. These landlords know they can get away with exploiting their tenants as there are approximately 350,000 people on council waiting lists. Complain and you’ll find yourself out on the streets… There was once a well known saying, “a English mans home is his castle” These days your made to feel grateful if you get a corner in the dungeon. “Happy days!”

      9. When my rich Uncle gets out of the poor house I’m gonna buy a houseboat!

        • I know a man who built his own houseboat. The state charged him all the usual permits, and taxed him, and forced him to moor it at a marina and pay for that too.

          They’ve got you by the balls no matter what you do.

      10. I rent now because I’m not staying in Illinois, because I’m moving south where the weather is warmer, and more important the taxes are less.
        If you own your house you really just think you do. Just miss some tax payments, and you will see that you don’t that the State does. What kind of B.S. is that

        • Just remember SARGE , Them taxes pay yer wages.

          A friendly reminder…..

          • Hammer
            You are right they do, but what upsets me is the way the local Gov. spends it. and what they spend it on. Fire protection, LEO’s Street dept. Now when they spend it on putting flowers in planters that the spent 2X what they are worth or pant trees on main street that grow so large they have to keep cutting the tops off of them. When they buy land for a park that no one will use. It is the waist that gets me.
            I pulled into the P.D. this morning and they have blue ribbons on the rod iron in front of the P.D. WTH why do they need these. Just another waist.

            • Wasted tax dollars ?
              NO , those redundant parks are all just compliance with the “sustainable community” project.
              They are probably adding bike paths as well.
              Its good to see your town is accepting Agenda 21 and Fed money to promote socialism.
              It took me ten years to convince my township that these programs were not a good thing and need to be avoided.
              Grant money always has strings attached.

          • HH – you are right; however, wages for police (particularly good men like SD) are the least of our worries. The RETIREMENT pensions of educators, as one example, are insane. My sister in law, a teacher, will retire mid 50s making in the $70s k every year for the rest of her life in Illinois. Meanwhile, I am supposed to pay EIGHT freaking thousand a year for that? Why can’t she work until her late 60s? I sure as heck will… all to pay for HER cushy retirement.

            Like SD, I am voting with my feet with a move to a low tax state as soon as a family situation resolves itself. Then, everyone else left in the state can live off of everyone else. Heck, it sure worked fine in the USSR, right?

            SD, always appreciate your posts, and HH, your post is appropriate to bring up as well – very well put. SD, I am only sorry we will lose you as a policeman. My neighbor is a retired senior IL. state trooper and a WONDRFUL man, neighbor, conservative and constitutionalist. I only wish, as a public service, he would not have retired so soon, as he could have a REAL ministry to the new people coming up through the ranks. I know retirement is a goal for a lot of people, but to do what? Golf? Sit on the beach? Why not **serve** people? Better to burn out than rust out.

            • WOW!! 2200 sf, w. attached 2 car garage, one acre only.
              Logan Co., Ky, 2013 property taxes–$1242.
              Average income is waaaay below Illinois, but $8000 property taxes??
              Oh, house cost $150,000 7 years ago.

              • 8000.00 !!
                Aint it insane ?
                1400 sq ft in N. central michigan = 975 a year on sixty acres where i stand
                Get the heck outta ILL .

                • $9.75 would be TOO much….theft is theft, no matter how small or large.

                  • While i agree property taxes are unconstitutional , i do enjoy knowing that sometime this winter maybe someone might just remember that there is a road in front of my place and maybe , someday plow it .
                    So i am happy to pay taxes for this service.
                    I am also glad to have a volunteer fire dept. , there used to be a house about 500 ft south of me , but they had a fire and the fire dept. showed up in a record 49 minutes !It was already on the ground.
                    I am happy to pay for that service as well.
                    OK , Enough sarcasm , LOL.

                    • Full disclosure on the fire.
                      It is 16 miles to the nearest fire barn , and it was a saturday night so they had to clear the bar first and find someone to drive .:)

        • Sgt, Florida is looking for ya. No state income tax on your pension. Cheaper property taxes. And hey no snow, I see you are getting dumped on again right now.

      11. sHucks,, wy dOntCha aLL Just giT yur seLfs a DowgDarn Trailler., wee CouLD Be rite nayborly toogeVther.sory fur me paw spelin n but I aInt had mutch ScooLin. catcH YAll laytr.

      12. “Thanks to the subprime mortgage scandal, millions of homeowners were put in homes they couldn’t afford,”

        Really? I’ve yet to read one instance of a mortgage broker holding a gun to an applicants head and forcing them to buy over inflated homes, take out over inflated home equity loans or anything related to home buying.

        People who have no concept of financial issues, people who spend themselves broke, people who have to put on a show and used others money to do it got what they deserved.

        The real tragedy here is the few who through a loss of job or cut back in pay lost their home. Not the financial irresponsible.

        Thank Frank/Dodd for this mess. Wall street only did what wall street does. Politicians give them the gun thru legislation and they will load and shoot it.

        • Same as with cars,
          Sure you can get the loan on the $65,000$ Superduty then use your CC to lift it and put rims and a chip on it, but can you pay for it with your minimum wage hotel jobs?
          See it all the time here, junior is 38, works 2 minimum wage part time jobs, lives at home, and has more money in the wheels parked in front of Grandmas house than most of the population make in 2 years,,,,,
          Priorities are a little off, just my opinion though

          • Kula, I’ve always bought cars from private owners for cash and put money into them to keep them going as long as possible. Never had a car note in my life and don’t want one. I’ve never had that kind of money to give up for a car. Don’t have that extra bill to worry about and the only car insurance I ever had was liability which is all that is required by law.

            • I used to be on the treadmill with auto loans and stuff, through happenstance i now just own my vehicles and all but my JK are 90s models, every time i start thinking ill trade em all in on a new one i get cold feet, that or a moment of clarity depending on viewpoint, can do a whole lot of custom work for the price of a new one, and it doesnt cost much if it just sits in the driveway,

              • Kula, I’m slowly getting money together for another old truck from the 80s or 90s which is all I can hope for anyway. I’ve had credit applications rejected even with co-signers in a few cases; well so be it. I’ve found some decent deals on Craigslist in my area from private owners and don’t get me started about dealers.

                • Maverick – be cautious about Craig’s List. Get the VIN before you go anywhere to look at a car. Couple was killed in McRae because they wanted a classic 66 Mustang from a Craigs List ad. Just remember your tactical training.
                  Kula – right on. My truck is 12 years old with almost 500K miles. Original engine, original transmission. Synthetic motor oil, flush the trans, just regular maintenance. A new paint job and new interior (which neither are needed yet) and a new engine and a new transmission will be a lot less than the $50K for a new truck.

          • The poor are also targeted. They Rent “Spinner” Wheel Rims for cars that blacks like to drive. Imagine renting Wheel Rims. lol Suck every last dollar out of the cracks.

          • Exactly!

      13. Sgt, may I suggest the mountains of western NC. Taxes are very low, there’s land, homes for sale, and a good growing season. Where I live we have the greatest % of CCW in the state, and a new Sheriff who is going after the meth heads with a vengeance. We pay less than $1000/yr for property taxes on our house and 11 acres. We have water, good neighbors, and a significant majority of people who will not only survive when SHTF, but thrive and be able to help rebuild. We use wood for heating, and temps are quite tolerable in the summer. It’s not the redoubt, but the next closest thing on this side of the country. Good folks here… you would be most welcome.

        • Hammers
          I love that area, but the wife wants to be closer to her family. There is bunch of them and they all prep. I’m looking to be in the Eagleton area or McMinnville area. of S.E. Tenn.
          Thanks for advise I’ll look at it!

          • SE Tennessee… that’s almost the same thing 🙂 Mountain living and no-nonsense folks… get here soon!

            • Hammers, Ive got relatives in north GA just south of the GA-TN-NC border area and hey all prep. I’ve got a BOL with most of my supplies already there. Making anther supply run there in late Feb. if the weather holds.

              • Maverick: your family is in good company and a great location. Everyone I talk to is either prepped or getting there. They (we, I should say as part of the tri-state area) also might have a plan in place to discourage the GH from Atl, Chatt, & Asheville from making their way into the mountains when the SHTF.
                My apologies, folks… Realize I’m a little off topic. Been enjoying the site for some time and thought I’d jump in.

          • Hey, you could come by and visit, we aren’t that far from that area. Eagleton as in near Maryvile?( pronounced Murrvlle)

          • Sgt. I would be moving south of the snow belt. In fact south of the Frost Belt. Most any of the Gulf states are good. Alabama or GA is also good for hunting etc. Far away from large cities. Do your research for sure. Check out Zillow com to see what is for sale now.

      14. I agree with the article with some exception. Prices for rural homesteads and rural fixer uppers are cheaper than 2008 levels, at least where I am on the east coast. The rub is that you need to commute far to where the jobs are and to where the house prices are now crazy insane. You also need to have skills, cash for materials, and time to fix up your rural property. Else wise you can rent or choose to become a part of the debt/commuter rat race.

      15. In a world full of useful idiots, no one really cares about the American dream anymore. Just keep fiddling with, and staring at that fuckin phone! I am constantly amazed by the relationship people have with their phones. Meanwhile the whole country is swirling the bowl. Most young adults today don’t have any pride. If the going gets tough, they run to mommy and daddy instead of toughing it out. When did parents stop parenting and instilling pride in their kids? My own kids avoid me because I tell them like it is and they don’t want to hear it while their mother allows them to lay around and be slugs and pays their bills for them WTF? This country has been taken over by the also-rans…..and we all let it happen!

        • Wait a minute while i tweet my latest BM and update my FB and Linkdin and let my grandma know where ill be at in 30 minutes then check the status of my BFFs then ill read these posts,,,,
          Its crazy crap aint it, almost got taken out by an idiot yesterday who was texting while driving, fucked doesnt realize how close he came to dying if i didnt swerve my 14,000# delivery truck instead of smacking his dumb ass in a lexus head on,,, next time i think ill just see what happens,,,,,,,,

      16. There are 55 homes in my sub division. Twelve of them are empty. Half of those have been empty more than one year. Some of the homes the bank owns but there are some rental property’s.
        The homes are between 1200 to 1500 sq. feet. Some with land and others with easements. Construction stated in the late seventies. A 1200 sq. ft. was about $39,000.
        The housing market droves the prices up for some homes to $129,000. Unreal appraisals! Homeowners sold and move on to greener pastures. Then when the market collapsed and jobs were being cut the neighborhood went down hill. Seen four families evicted and their stuff put to the curb. Home furnishings left out in the rain a crap scattered everywhere. Homes left unoccupied were later brought by auction and now I have the renter’s in and out in about a years stay. More garbage to pick up in the neighborhood.

        So get ready people. The tenants in rented homes, don’t give a shit about the home or the neighborhood. They have no skin in the game and they bring bad outside influences with them.

        • Slingshot, I applied for a mortgage once back in the late 90s but was turned down because of no previous credit history. I’ve been a renter for my whole life. It was either that or become homeless. The man I work for owns 8 rental properties and I live in one of those. There’s only one house for sale in my neighborhood. Although I’m a renter, I do care about the place here I live and do what I can to keep it up. That’s just the way I was raised. Someone else owns a house right across the street from me that was previously converted into 4 apartments. Just 2 weeks ago someone was evicted from there and only yesterday were the furniture and crap finally removed from the sidewalk. It’s true a lot of renters don’t care but this one does care because he’s “old school”, NOT one of the brain-dead sheeple.

          • Maverick.

            We are old schooled. Know the value of things. Can do without. Make things work. We have pride in our work and community.

            You know, Maverick. I have never seen so much trash being dumped in the woods and along our roadways. Watched adults throw trash on the ground not ten feet from a trash can.

            Two things. I think a reset will either set us back to the dark ages, ( I don’t care)or things will be set right. I do not want any in between. We have that now.

            • Slingshot, I agree a reset is the only hope we have, otherwise…..

      17. One day the bankers & politicians will be held to account for the damage they have done to our once great country.

        • Da Yooper,
          we can always hope that the corrupt will get there fair share! humor! guilty of crimes and hanged!

          • I have plenty of trees

            need more rope

            • sounds like a deal i have lots of rope!

              • You the Man

                Time for a necktie parrrrrrrrrty

                • ile help yaLL Wiva dOwgDarn LINchin

        • It appears 2 countries have abandoned the central banks and predatory politicians

          Iceland and Greece

          though the verdict is still out on Greece as the politics and financials unfold…

          … not one banker nor politician has been tarred and feathered as of yet…

          Should be interesting to watch the rest of the eu nations become unglued..especially Spain right now..


          Unless they pull the plug on cable,ebt cards and public pensions…all will continue as it is now..

          as long as we have pro sports and hollywood keeping the masses distracted..


      18. WDC CORP is operated by the Bank of England.

      19. The truth is, people in America don’t know how to do without. Back in the day, you were poor if you didn’t have a tv or nice clothes or jewelry… Or a nice car. What passes for poor these days?
        I remember going to community college back in the early 80’s. My friends had cute clothes, owned a car and seemed to have it so much more together than me. One day we were sitting in the commons and they were both complaining about how broke they were. I told them I wasn’t broke…they turned to me and asked me how much money I had in the bank. I said, “Well, I have five grand…” Their jaws dropped. My parents made all of us kids save for college and I put 3/4’s of earned money in the bank…. Kept 1/4 for spending money. Put myself through college with absolutely no help. Later, at the University my boyfriend (now husband) was going to give me a ride to the grocery store. I picked out my groceries and he said- that’s all you’re buying? I said yes- that’s all I can afford to buy. He couldn’t relate (living with his parents and them paying for his college 100%) but I’m proud that I didn’t abuse a credit card and had only one small student loan… I don’t think they know what true poor is- no car, no nice clothes, no going out to dinner….no money from parents.

        • Cabin Fever, I’ve had some tough times in my younger days, but I made it all the way through and came out stronger. I’ve never had any type of loan or credit card and refuse to get either one. I always bought older cars from private owners straight up for cash and make them last as long as possible. I refuse to pay an outrageous price for a vehicle where you have to borrow from someone to buy it. Most of my personal transactions are made with cash. I refuse to have a credit card bill or car note to worry about all the time. Anyone who says you can’t live without credit is mistaken. I do pretty good without credit.

          • You are awesome Maverick!

          • Maverick, didn’t you say you have always rented? If you were inclined to ever buy, because you have never had a credit card or any credit, it sounds like, you could not get a loan. There is nothing wrong with having a credit card, AS LONG AS you pay it off each month. It is a good way for young people to build up their credit score so that some day they can own a home. Advocating for no credit cards only hurts young people. They need to learn HOW to use credit cards to their advantage. The American dream of owning a home is still possible and honestly not all that difficult but you do need to have the intelligence to use your money wisely.

            • Just me, that’s just m saying I wouldn’t have a credit card an my income level is too low to get one anyway. I don’t really care what other people do for themselves. I can agree with your logic behind credit cards as long as we have a good economy and the people have enough financial self-restraint to handle them right. I just consider my prepping to be my No. 1 priority and I won’t let a credit card bill or car payment every month stand in the way of me prepping for what is coming to this nation.

              • We buy all our preps with a credit card and pay it off every month. Get cash back too for our purchases. We play the system against itself. LOL Credit card companies don’t really like us, but we have a good score and if we ever had to, God forbid, pay for an unexpected expense, we could use the credit card to do that. I guess I see having the card as “a prep”. We don’t use it unless we already know where the money to pay it is coming from, but it is nice to have as a “back up’.

          • Thought most people were brought up to budget wisely. People would do well to heed these words. “Live within your means” Thanks Maverick.

            • Cash Is King, welcome aboard. Too many people today are financially irresponsible. I’ve always lived within my means, regardless of what I’ve been through. Being debt-free does have certain advantages to it and is an awesome feeling. And people think something is wrong with me for NOT using credit for anything? I refuse to go drowning in debt on anything and I won’t apologize to anyone for that.

              • Thanks Maverick. Credit to me is like putting the cart before the horse. PLAIN WRONG. Common sense should tell you that spending what you don’t have will end in tears. I’m aware that most countries are already heading towards a “cashless society” maaaan that spooks me. They sure ainnt doing it for the good of ordinary folk… A penny for your thoughts y’all!

            • Having No credit is just like having Bad Credit. When you go get a job many employers look at your credit and score. So no good credit score means no good paying job. It is an endless cycle of poverty which mean you never go on any real vacation, go fly or even can buy a plane ticket, or book a hotel or rent a car. So you sit home on Staycation all your life staring at your preps for Armageddon. Sounds pretty depressing for me. I have had plenty of credit card, auto loans, house mortgages great jobs, and took lots of vacations all over the world. Because I had ambition and drive to succeed. Since I am self employed, I have made as much as $180K a year down to $42K last year. Its all cyclical. If I want something I work harder or create another opportunity to make money, I never feel that I have ever deprived myself of buying anything I want, or not go on any vacation or ski trip as all I need to do is go out and make more money to pay for it. Use credit and even maxed out a few credit cards them paid them all off many times. Life is full of choices, make it as you wish. I used to have friends buy used cars then constantly having to repair them and cost more money than if they just bought a new car with a warrantee. No good transportation, then you cannot hold a good job if you can;t get there on time. You think your boss cares if your POS pick-up transmission is giving you problems. Its people personal problem that they pass on to others that keeps you from your own success. When you own a house and never are late on your house payment, many more opportunities open up for you as you look more dependable and trust worth as your got your shit together. Personal choices what it all comes down to every day as to your destiny.

              • I will also add, I have never been afraid of any kind of work, I mow my own lawn clean my own house and repair most everything myself, including my auto. I paid for my own college, my own weddings, never late on bills and stellar credit over 800 Fico score. Not bragging, just determination,since we are on this subject regarding credit. And will add my next property here soon, will be paid for with cash, land and new construction. That is what having good active credit history will do for ya. If I had no credit or crappy credit I most likely would not be able to work in this financial industry which I am in.

              • WWTI, good post with plenty of valid points, but you’re overlooking one thing here. Back in the 90s when I tried to establish credit, NOBODY would approve a credit application for me to get ANYTHING. It didn’t matter what I was trying to get. As you know, you only need one person to approve a credit application for you, then later other possibilities could come along. Not one door to credit would open for me so finally right before Y2K I said to hell with it and gave it up. This was way back when we had a good economy also. So I still stuck with cars that were “on life support”, so to speak. But I kept them going and still made it to work every day. I’ve been at the same company since 1982 and never once called off with any BS excuse. I’ve kept my nose t the grindstone and go the extra mile for the man I work for. In early 2001, my vehicle troubles became so severe I was out looking for another old vehicle. Right out of the blue, my employer offered me a company vehicle, with gas, maintenance, insurance covered by the company. I jumped on the offer and let my clunker go to the junkyard. Never regretted the move. supposedly getting a new truck soon. My point is that you have to find someone that will let you use credit before anything else can happen. I don’t even care about that now and I do just fine without credit.

                • It’s a way of life. Takes more planning to use cash only these days but well worth it. It doesn’t restrict you from enjoying life in anyway that I know of. It also prevents the snide financial trackers from following your purchasing trail which they use to their advantage and that to me is priceless.

        • One year I – literally – worked full time at night in a nursing home and went to school full time in the day to get through university.

          Not exactly a “sex, drugs and rock and roll” experience for me. Another year (I did some of my university in the US, some in Canada) I lived in an unheated basement in Vancouver. Not trying to whine or one-up anyone here (heck, you will never meet me, so who cares) – rather, just contrasting then (1970s, early 80s) with the attitudes today. There ARE some kids who ARE doing similar, but the percentage is much smaller from what I see. As one example, I have a young niece who just graduated, and was one who worked her way through mostly on her own.

      20. We all make bad decisions in our lives. We learn the hard way. We don’t know what is next, just like today. My husband wouldn’t go for a bigger house in 1967 like I wanted. Still in the house. I added on when my mother died in 2000 with the stock she left me. Thank goodness I cashed in and used the money. My sister didn’t and she lost big, never again did BAC come back to $85.00 a share. I’m happy now with my added addition and but my husband is in a nursing home. My taxes were reduced because he was disabled and the cost of nursing homes is over $5000.00 a month. A little help, not much, from the VA. Took a long time to get anything. Every little bit helps. I struggle every month. Things break down, lost my car after I hit a metal poll in a parking lot. Things need fixing but can’t do it now. Little by little I hope to replace a refrigerator, heat and air unit, roof on carport, more insulation in attic, clean out ducks and the list goes on. I can’t complain, it could be worst. Utilities are high, even if I use little as possible. A few good decisions were made and that is why I’m still here. We all need to remember things change.

        • GRAMS-
          Call your utility company and they can refer you to agencies that will do some of that work for free , such as insulating and furnace work.
          Dont be shy , youve already paid your way .

        • Grandma, your first statement is so true. We all make good and bad decisions. The ratio of good verses bad, dictate which way our lives go. And not knowing which way the future will be forced upon us, decisions are hard to make.

          I pay taxes on 3 properties, 12& of my income, and it sux out loud. Most on school. Sux, since the school system is flawed.

          • The school taxes are the worst. I have paid taxes since 1959 on my first house now my last. I worked for 20 years just to send my children to private schools and college while they were going to school. Now I still pay to send other children to public school. There should be a cut off when you are a certain age or when you have paid for 50 years. So now I will pay for illegals and drop outs. Some come rob your house instead of staying in school. That will never change.

            • Grandma, anyone who comes to harm you should receive “lead poisoning”.

        • Taking a moment to pray for your situation now, Grams.

      21. Give it up coward Zombies of collapsing Murica, it is over for the sinking Stasi Fascist Corporatist controlled evil FEUDAL SYSTEM shithole of the world-the Corporatist fascist filth and their boot licking coward trash minions know it is over.

      22. I am so sick of taxes. The federal government doesn’t even need tax revenue. They simply have to offer more government bonds and let the federal reserve buy them. They’ve been doing it since the beginning of civilization.
        By this process everybody would be paying the same tax.. called inflation. Instead we are still required to give to ceasar and pay inflated prices for products that the federal bankers already have their claws into. And don’t even try the gold backed currency gimmick. The bankers would just demand gold or silver in lieu of currency and then own all of the precious metals.

        • Bonds carry interest that requires additional borrowing to pay off since the money is created at issue and, with interest, it is not enough to pay off the bond with interest (you owe more than you borrow).

          But the Treasury can is us Treasury notes that carry no interest and can actually be paid off to end up with a debt free condition, a real situation where the money is owed only to ourselves.

          Kennedy started doing this with 2 and 5 dollar notes -sometimes called red seals- but got shot in the head shortly afterwards and the program was then cancelled.

          Going back further, we had Lincoln and the “greenbacks” that were basically the same thing and avoiding borrowing at interest from bankers, but he also got shot in the head and that program ended after he was gone.

          Maybe there’s just something about that getting shot in the head coincidence thing that keeps anyone from trying it again?

      23. Hello Grandma, Wise words from a lovely lady. All I can do is wish you well. Thanks for your words, they hit hard but the truth usually does. Best wishes to you grandma. xXx

        • Believers here should all take a moment to pray for Granny. Our elders in their golden years deserve our respect and support.

          Except Ezekiel Emanuel, who apparently will be gone by 75… nor will we miss him

        • I want to thank you for all of your concerns. Really nice people here. I shouldn’t complain. So many others are worst off. I’ll make it, always have. Nothing comes easy. Lets get this country back to the great country we had. We can do it. God bless America.

          • Thanks gran, I could listen to you all day long. God has blessed America… With you xXx

      24. That’s the whole scam of fractional reserve banking. They keep printing paper that can never be repaid (mathematically impossible since the money for the interest is never created. So, in the end everything belongs to the banks. That’s why the banksters always take over governments and fund the police state; To keep what is there’s.

      25. alex jones says full tilt depression no later than September, 200 dollar an ounce silver by July, HURRY!

      26. I moved back to Alabama from Canada 20 years ago, renovated my grandparents 100 year old farm house and have no morgage or rent.

        20 acre backyard foothills with creeks, 20 acre front yard that has a field and woods. All the neigbors are family for a half mile around and we are on good terms with most of the other people.

        Now peolpe wish they did what I did.

        • Believers here should all take a moment to pray for Granny. Our elders in their golden years deserve our respect and support.

          Except Ezekiel Emanuel, who apparently will be gone by 75… nor will we miss him

      27. If it wasn’t for foreign dirty money coming in and buying up real estate in some markets, there wouldn’t be any buyers at all. Miami and the rest of Florida. California. Manhattan.

      28. “If Americans ever allow banks to control the issue of their currency (Federal Reserve, central bank, IMF) , first by inflation and then by deflation (Economic bubbles), the banks will deprive the people of all property until their children wake up homeless in the streets.”
         Thomas Jefferson

        The Feds did it in the great depression and they are doing it again now. History is like an angry woman. She repeats herself because no one is listening to her examples. Well I’m hear to tell you the “The bitch is back!”

      29. It’s a vicious cycle depleting assets of the middle class. The biggest culprit, artificial low interest rates. Instead of savings keeping up with inflation “free” money forces the little guy into the stock market or home ownership. Both are risky investments. The next housing bubble will drain the swamp.

        • Wonder what the EPA will say about that, you know, wetlands protection and all,,,

      30. The housing bust all dates back to the Clinton years, under Cisneros… all predicated on more socialism and do-gooder-ism.

        If the state wants to blow money, here’s a thought: Spend a billion on finding out why socks come out of the dryer missing one part of a pair. That would be worthy of a trillion dollar study.

        And if anyone out there in SHTF-sphere knows were my last sock went that just finished in the dryer, please email me at where’[email protected]

        Right now, my theory is some housewife on planet Xircon 8 trillion light years away is opening up HER dryer and finding MY sock… while I am getting one of hers

        • Sounds like a worm hole.

      31. Just remember, please, that we are in this financial mess because a certain political party schemed to perpetuate themselves in power by forcing otherwise responsible banks to make mortgage loans to people who should have been renting, having no savings, weak credit history, inadequate income, poor future employment prospects, etc., etc., etc.

        “Hidden in Plain Sight” by Peter Wallison.

        If the introduction alone doesn’t set your hair on fire, you are too stupid to be allowed oxygen.

        • Coach, you’re right about the politicians changing banking practices to extend credit to those that would not have qualified for home loans in past decades.

        • Spot on there, mon ami

        • I’m calling BS on this “otherwise responsible banks” nonsense.

          • Yes, there was a time when banks were responsible. I’m old enough to remember it. But the Clinton housing policies came along with the almost-complete slackening of bank regulation, and from that time the land-sharks became dominant in bank management, and you know the rest.

            I often think there must have been a quid pro quo in there. Otherwise the banks would have screamed bloody murder and refused to commit suicide.

            One unexpected benefit of my retirement BOL is that I’ve found a small (one office) local bank which retained its’ ethics, never participated in the madness, and which may survive the bloodbath. Not that I have much to put in it……

            • Old Coach. Forget banks, join a CU Credit Union. Banks are loan shark predators that bury its customers in needless fees.

          • I’m calling BS on a “certain political party” also.

            You must be blind, deaf, dumb, or all three to not see the political parties in DC are the same animal.

            Very few people at shtf believe any drivel that there is any difference in them. Lies are told to the susceptible; seems some still are.

            Hows that Republican controlled congress and senate working out for you? Working great for AIPAC, not so much for Amerca.

            • Sorry…..America….

            • Your hate is making you blind, Granny.

        • when the shtf, all the obama voters are going to find that out the hard way.

          and we’re going to see furgeson’s all over because of all the devisiveness and actual push against cops promoted by the white house.

          i suggest drinking good beer and smoking good cigars until that happens because there is no guarrantee for anyone’s livelihood then.

          it didnt have to be like this, the usa couldve return to its founding and avoided what we see in greece and ukraine today; but the past 6 years have cemented some truly chaotic days to come.

      32. “Inflation is as violent as a mugger, as frightening as an armed robber and as deadly as a hit man.”

        Ronald Reagan

      33. True story:

        As noted, if the govt left me my money, I could do a trillion times more, for 1% of the money, with a zillion times more love than the bloated govt EVER could. As Dr. Arthur Brooks notes in Who Really Cares.

        My wife and I ran into a half black, half Mexican 19 yr old at the local mission a few years ago. Of course, being mixed, neither side really accepted him. Sadly, his parents were murdered when he was about 13. So, he bounced around a bit. We met the kid, named Will, and were impressed with his intelligence and forthrightness, so we kind of “adopted” him, and put him – on our own dime, based on our Christian convictions – through his nursing assistant programme in Illinois.

        Here’s the point: Not that we are some saints, as we aren’t. Rather, that *****if the state quit taxing me in such a draconian fashion, I could do this for 10 more kids.**** As it is, I can’t, as all my tax dollars go down a socialist, crony rat hole in the capitols of DC and Springfield, IL.

        Yeah, socialism is REAL compassionate, isn’t it! Just like that $20 freaking TRILLION now spent on the failed War on Poverty, or Detroit, the poster child for the sister socialist programme, the Model Cities Program (yup… Detroit sure is a socialst “model” alright… Detroit… the only city you can walk 12 blocks and STILL be at the scene of the crime.)

        • Well done good and faithful servant xXx

        • TEST-
          Taxation is bad enough , but regulation gets in the way as well.
          A couple years ago i donated a half of beef to the local food pantry. It was privatly processed and not inspected.
          My own beef , that i raised mind you .
          Well the health department got wind of it and got the FDA involved . Long story made short , they couldnt hand it out and they were gonna have to throw it out.
          I ended up repossesing it before that happened.
          But just another example of government overreach and stupidity.

          • When the FSMA goes into effect next year you wont be able to donate produce to any charity unless you are food safe certified,,, the food pantries or soup kitchens cant use food that isnt certified,, just fucking stupid, i wont be in business any more because the exemption level for comercial sales is 25k, not the 250 K obola said they were going to use, so i will have a choice of paying thousands every year to be audited and inspected and add thousands more to my cost of production on top of the costs for the audits etc or just say fuckit and spend more time fishing,,,,
            Whitch do you think im going with?

            • KULA-
              Ya just gotta modify your business model.
              I now sell “live” animals.
              And am happy to process for free.
              Just a slight price ajustment the deal is made.
              Maybe that wont work for you but we really need to think outta the box .
              Those asshat regulation writers in washington wont be happy till all our food rolls of an assembly line in China . Pisses me right off !

            • And these are the same fools who hop up on the bandstand and scream that we waste too much food in this country.

          • Friggin’ control freaks… Grrrrrrrrrrrr!

      34. I don’t feel so sorry for most of the middle class who lost their homes during the recession–they bought more home than they could afford and borrowed beyond their limits to pay it back, all because they needed that Starbuck’s coffee, new cars, and Air Jordan $200 pr. tennis shoes for all their kids.

        It was greed on the banks part as well as greed in the middle class. They didn’t learn math in school and what happened to them was a valuable lesson…. But I wonder if they learned anything? They keep blaming the banks, and not seeing their own mistakes.

        • The ones i like are the real estate flippers, bunch of unethical vultures in my opinion.

      35. My prediction for the collapse is within six months of the first rise in interest rates. The consensus is a rate increase sometime in June. When the interest rate goes up the supply of money goes down. With the amount of real inflation we all know about there’s gonna be a panic.
        Watch what the big money is doing right now, they have been given a heads up and will be exiting the markets slowly so it’s not obvious. They are probably doing it now, which could be the reason for the large swings in the stock market.
        It would be nice to know what the heads of the federal reserve are doing with their own/bank money. That would be the tell. But like all truly big money it is actually invested by and through private institutions set up to mask the truth.

        • “Gold is a currency. It is still by all evidences the premier currency where no fiat currency, including the dollar, can match it.” [October 29, 2014, New York, Council on Foreign Relations.]


          • – it’s an Alan Greenspan quote. (oops)

      36. Looks like Obungler, Congress, The Elites and of course the greedy Corporations and Banksters are getting exactly what they wanted: A world economy collapse so they can swoop in and “save us all” from the mess they created. 1929 is going to look like a cake walk compared to what is coming.

      37. Housing prices in our neighborhood are cheaper than when we bought our house in 2001. Banks aren’t lending. New credit cards are difficult to get even if you have good credit.

      38. All of you that said nobody really owns their home/property is correct. It’s not only the property tax: don’t pay and see how long you own your home. This is also true with the irs.

        The other half is how can anyone pay a debt (mortgage) with debt (USD’s). The lie is you can’t. Although there may be hope to “own” your home with a “Land Patent” ht tp://

        A promissory note can not be altered after the fact of signatories, this is forgery. After you sign your mortgage (or any promissory note) loan it is altered with a “deposit only” stamp and stamped with control numbers. This is altering the document after the fact, which is not full disclosure making the document null and void.

        Read “Americas Hope: To cancel bank loans without going to court” Tom Schauf, 4th printing 1997, if you can find a copy.

        • USD: Coinage act of 1792. This act has not been repealed. Definition: A dollar is a specific weight of gold and silver.

          US Constitution, Article 1, section 8, clause 5: For the United States of America (not the corporate “United States”), Money is only a Gold And Silver Coin based on the weight/measure standard authorized.

          The FRN is not a dollar, but denominated as a dollar only, thus a pretend dollar. An illusion of a true lawful dollar.

          The FRB actually pays the US government to print notes.
          This is done through the Bureau of Engraving and Printing (BEP)The FED pays to have their currency printed. So, if you pay a printer to print your letterhead who owns it?

          The Government prints the note which obligates through contract to the manipulated debt. Each and every fake dollar has a serial number for tracking, There is no serial # on lawful gold or silver.
          Everything with a serial# is collateral toward the debt to the FED, you do not own it. They can and will come and take it if required to fulfill your obligation as federal citizen to the independent STATE/Country of the District of Columbia.

          The “NOTE” is signed on your behalf as a US citizen by the Treasurer of the “United States” and the “Secretary of the Treasury” thus presumably making this paper legal tender, again on your behalf.

          The irs is not within the U.S. Department of the Treasury, The IRS appears to be a collection agency working for foreign banks and operating out of Puerto Rico under color of the Federal Alcohol Administration (“FAA”). But the FAA was promptly declared unconstitutional inside the 50 States by the U.S. Supreme Court in the case of U.S. v. Constantine, 296 U.S. 287 (1935), because Prohibition had already been repealed.

          When all the evidence is examined objectively, IRS appears to be a money laundry, extortion racket, and conspiracy to engage in a pattern of racketeering activity, in violation of 18 U.S.C. 1951 and 1961 et seq. (“RICO”).

          So, you tell me WTF is going on? And this is why it will all come crumbling down on the heads of the comatose “citizens”.

          Is it time to get an education yet?

          • vtfree2
            I agree that the IRS is a money laundering extortion ring. But I’ve come to realize that laws are only made to keep to honest people honest.

            • ed, Are you implying that corporations\Individuals that do not pay are dis-honest?
              I’m thinking the system is rigged so that laws are only made to keep the controlled commodities controlled.

              To be honest with your peers, you must first be honest with yourself. Self honesty is an asset of truth.

        • I am claiming some beautiful free lakeshore property with a sand beach that’s secluded. It has an outhouse, a picnic table and a fire ring already on it and a storage locker. It costs me nothing, I don’t pay property taxes on it, I don’t have to. I make it my summer home away from home with a large cabin tent to live in.

          My cousins have a cabin on that same lake and it costs them $20,000 a year in taxes where I used to stay at and I’d have to pay them $800 a week to camp outside, but out of meanness they shut me out last year after a lifetime of summers there. Now I got lakeshore for free and my cousins have to pay out of that $20,000 a yr taxes to support my private summer camp. Karma can be wonderful.

          • Rev 3:17 Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked:

      39. Selling a house to someone that don’t have proper employment . Baks are dumb for financing this it is because of their greed they say they want to help family’s bullshit. Smart people won’t fall for that I didn’t I rented an apt just outside of the ghetto but I know others who as soon as they were able to get financed ran out and were buying $300.000 houses that were only worth $180.000 and now they are upside down on their house. I waited and looked around for a while where I wanted to live and put offers in on houses. I didn’t get some but I don’t falling love with a house and ha a to have it. My patience paid off later I got such a good deal and paid cash for my house the lawyer closed on it for us and I got the deed. Fixed it up here and there and it’s now worth more than I paid I could sell it and move somewhere else if I want but I am working ten mins from home . At $30 an hour I figure I will stay here for now . I was thinking of moving to florida because I like the warm weather. Not having a mortgage is huge for me taxes are high but I don’t care really I pay my years property taxes in one month of wages. I know people who are living in foreclosed homes for 2 years now free of charge they can’t call it theirs but they still occupy it fuckin banks are dumb. They should kick them out and rent it for half the $ it’s better than no $ I don’t care fuck em it’s their problem . If you bite off more than you can chew your gonna choke that’s what happens. The bank don’t care if you choke they want $ . This whole Ponzi scheme is coming to an end. I have peace of mind being debt free. Sure I can buy a Mercedes but why I don’t like them. I will stick with my 10 year old ford with low miles . The elites know what to do to steal from us . Why should I feel bad for folks who were living it up while I was eating humble pie. The socialist gov wants to control the property. The middle class thing does not apply no more. It’s the elites and the peasants this is easier to control the masses the people that were in the middle are pissed off that they keep losing and are being pushed down. If our kids grow up being kept down. They will think it’s normal. I hated renting it totally sucked but it did have good points. If I got a new neibor I didn’t like I could pack my shit in a truck and move to another place. I had a buddy who probably live in every apt in town at one point or other . He still moves around. Wall Street the new slum lord it sound good haha. I moved around a lot as a renter you have to do this. It’s normal really . I don’t get these people who don’t like change they are afraid of it. I look at it as a new oppertunity .

        • The banks were not dumb. They were forced to make all these bad loans at what is essentially gunpoint. Mario Cuomo told them “do it, or we’ll sic the SEC on you so bad you’ll wish you were dead.” Same thing when the so-called TARP fiasco was put in. Wells Fargo said “we don’t need that money” and Geithner said “take it, or……”

          • Cuomo. I would much prefer Hitler as gov.

          • Yah; like Cuomo and Geithner held sway over the likes of Goldman Sachs……

            • At the time, Goldman Sachs was a hedge fund, not a bank. They had no role in generating mortgages. Later on they did take a hand role in distributing the worthless Mortgage Backed Securities that Fannie and Freddie were pumping out, packaging them and selling them to the public. (BTW my financial son-in-law quit his job rather than be a party to that. BankAmerica, where he was at the time, raced to get in on the action.)

              Only when it became apparent that GS was going to sink under the weight of the bad paper, (mostly default swaps that they were generating to help market the MBS, I think), did they petition to become a bank holding company, so they could get in on the TARP bailout.

              Don’t get me wrong. Goldman Sachs by year 2000 was about as evil and greedy a bunch of land-sharks as this country has ever seen, but they did NOT create the bad-mortgage-fueled housing bubble.

      40. Shit

      41. What is wrong with renting you get to move once or twice a year maybe or not for a few years. I used to rent but I don’t like other family’s behind the walls that is communal living it’s not for me. I’m glad I own my house not the bank. Property taxes is like $4000 a year it’s cheap worth it all day. I pay property tax on my vehicles that is cheap too it’s like $200 a year. I pay my taxes in 1 months wages. I could complain but nobody would listen. I’m starting to like this social equality stuff it sucks if you are a nobody with no skills. But for me it’s just fine. I live in the state with the highest unemployment and I’m doing better than ever before really. The people that suffer around here have no employment value that is why they suffer. Employers are not in the business of employing people they are in it to make $ people are so upset that some boss gets a bonus maybe he earned it. Employers around here constantly say they can’t find qualified people and it shows with some of the people that get hired tattoos everywhere slang talking swearing too wearing purple and yellow sneakers. I’ve seen some real losers get a good job and fuckin blow it dummies can’t see the difference between a job and a career. All I can say is if you want to make $ have some thing to offer other than your time.

        • Couple of years ago I bought some machine shop tooling online from a company near Cleveland. They screwed the order up so badly that I wound up driving three hours to get it straightened out face-to-face. What do I find when I get there? Yupper – tattoos, nose rings, and an attitude that would have gotten my mouth washed out with Ivory when I was a kid. That company would get a lot of my business, on their prices alone, but I won’t ever do business there again.

          • You realize, HH, that in the old Soviet Union, Christians (and others) were PROHIBITED from conducting works of compassion. As you know, this would show up the ineptitude of the state, and the fact that they really didn’t give a flying rats derriere about real people. So your trying to help people with beef like that is par for the course. This is happening ALL OVER the US and the West, and is one reason we need to get involved locally.

            I am a a precinct committeeman where I currently live in the Peoples Socialist Thugocracy of IL. Everyone here really needs to consider becoming one, as this is the very grass roots level of the whole political structure, and where everything starts.

            • Props to you, Test, for taking action. If I weren’t so near being totally deaf, which makes any kind of spoken conversation a complete joke, I’d do the same.


        That’s right, concentrate us all in the cities. Good idea. Cause yeah, those aren’t targets. Not at all. We’ll have so much left to rebuild with.

        On March 12, 2015, at 3:45 AM Eastern time, it’s gonna feel pretty f&^%ing real to you too. Anyone not wearing number 2 million sun block is gonna have a really bad day. This according to some internet nutjob lunatic who claimed to be a time traveler, and is nonetheless entertaining fiction to read.

        • LOL !!!! Good one Test! I’s stealing that for propagation to all my on-line friends!

        • The article said the hunters got 150 pds of sausage, huge hams, tenderloin and I don’t know what all else! Kudos to them! Enjoy that pig! 😉

      43. hammerhead–bad move.
        Go to the church; they have names; deliver the meat yourself.
        I stopped giving to food banks for that reason—that AND so many stories of BIG MAMA throwing those peas and green beans in the trash ’cause her kids only eat mac and cheese.

        • Interestingly, a key point of the Bolsheviks in the USSR was to forbid and prevent Christians from engaging in acts of compassion. The reason was several fold: separate them from a core part of their identity; show that only the commies “cared” (“care” as in the Holodomor, or th 62 million “excess deaths” that occurred under them, reported with the Soviet archives were opened in the early 1990s.

          A key goal of the left is to separate Christianity from its own ontological nature – that of being the hands and feet of Christ in a hurting world.

          Sorry, but it can never happen, simply because I cannot cease being myself, as indwelt by God’s Holy Spirit.

      44. Has anyone ever visited or lived in Madagascar?

        Just curious, as i find myself constantly coming back to the photos of the island!

        Thinking it would be an ideal place to visit as a expatriot!

        Maybe live there for retirement!

        • Madagascar is definitely Third World. Very corrupt government. No economy. Worthless money, Zimbable level. Environmental disaster in the making, despite those great photo layouts of endangered natural enclaves. Exists on UN aid and subsidies. Bad racial violence issues in the cities, much worse than ours, then add a high general crime level on top on that. Not good.

          Going for a visit? Great !

          Living there? Not so smart.

          • thank you Smoke.

        • Hey taz, weren’t there some recent news articles about bubonic plague in Madagascar?

          • cleanliness is next to godliness

            ummm yep ;0)

            ummm you do realize that the Bubonic Plaque is here in Zog Amerika also right?

            there are cases every year in Amerika , last year a bunch of folks visiting Yosemite national park in commie.cali got it from their park rental cabins being infested by rats and chipmunks droppings/ urine.

            it’s carried by rodents, bats , ticks and fleas mostly.

            • Rodent droppings carry hantavirus, not plague. Just as deadly, though.

              • right @ole’coach , but wrong , – Black Death. … fleabite, but it can be transmitted by airborne water particles from coughs and sneezes. …. in France and Germany, who often accused Jews of poisoning wells to kill Christians.

                fresh wet droppings , blood and urine will transmit it.

      45. Our gov has proven they are willing to go to war over oil. Why would the gov want to do this they are not an oil company. I think something serious is going on on a scale we have never seen before. The government is negotiating with terrorists they are releasing them from gitmo it looking to me like the us gov is caving to Muslims demands I think Isis is holding the gov hostage this is the enemies tactics it’s well established. Once Iran gets the bomb the world will be hostage . It’s looking like they are close to achiving this or may already have it and holding the gov hostage. This would explain the rediculous policy’s and executive actions and all the extreme statements by the administration. It would explain why they say things like right wing extremists and villainize republicans. They have to make their actions look mainstream and modern and conservative ideals are obsolete the constitution too. I never seen so much fighting within the gov in my lifetime there used to be compromise from both sides for the best decision for America. I just don’t see this anymore Obama rules like a dictator. Pushing his agenda on folks who don’t want it. Nobody should be forced to buy health coverage I lived without it for 6years I paid as I went. It’s so fucked up I just don’t see us coming out of this without major sacrafice.

        • It is another way to bring about martial law, disarmament and foreign troops on US soil

      46. John Allan got it right 100% The ones who forced banks to make loans to people who could not afford them were, Barney Frank, who headed the Senate Banking Committee at the time, He made that a condition for granting banks more leinancy in opening new branches. Then again there is the Dodd-Frank Bill,but that’s another story

      47. the only way to own your own home now is to build a housing duplex, you live in one unit and rent out the other 3.

        it’s not worth it.

      48. I have renTed for 2 years I have been prepping. I do it,so, I can move to my bugout location at will and not leave a large mortgage debt behind. This is my last year there as I plan to move to my stronghold and completely drop off the grid in 2016 regardless of where our society stands. I only hope circumstances allow me this additional year to build improvements to it. After that only my family will see me and then only if they come to my place. A burner phone and a ham radio are all I will have. Some in my family think I have lost my mind, but as I grow older I care less and less what anyone thinks. I admit I will miss the Internet somewhat and not seeing my beloved Kentucky Wildcats play but our society has become so strange and toxic I can no longer tolerate it. Solar power, wood heat and a well should eliminate a utility footprint, no bank and no debt should get me off the bank grid. Will sell gold each year for operating cash and pay cash for all transactions. My truck is licensed in my sons name so my plates will not have my home address. As for taxes on my property I set up a private trust that I will pay by money order each year. If the SHTF most of this will not matter but should we continue the slow creep into facism I feel I will be better off than most.

        • It’s communism, not facism and it’s here, now.
          f em.

        • Interesting approach.. a private trust to pay your property taxes.. I expect to pay off my mortgage this month.. I will look into forming a trust.. mayhap my property taxes could still be paid once you can’t buy or sell without the mark.. that’s actually been a big concern of mine.. cause as we all know, you do not actually own property in most of this country anymore.. you only lower your rent when you don’t have a mortgage; but if it can be legally taken away from you; you really don’t own it.

      49. A couple guys I work with have rental property and they told me not to do it. Years ago it was profitable but nowadays the tenant has more rights than the landlord. They can’t kick people out without going through a long drawn out process. I wouldn’t do it myself people think they gonna buy this 3 family building and live in one of the units and their renters are gonna foot the bill I’m not saying this is not gonna work out but the stability of most people’s jobs especially those who rent is not there anymore. I heard the excuses for not having the months rent. The stricter rules the landlords face just don’t make it worth doing IMHO. I used to rent an apt on the second floor in the city I hated it . I will never live in the city again. I would rather be dirt poor in the country side. I can’t stand people the folks in the city are ignorant and just not fun to be around. When I was a kid my father never went into the city he told me there was nothing there. I know why he said this now . I’m not into the melting pot crap. I grew up in a time where everyone had their place in town the Irish folks on one end the Italians over there the polish over there and the black folks were few and far in between. Every one stayed in their neighborhood. This was perfectly acceptable to me. The city is a zoo I’m all set. Country folks are a lot more pleasant to deal with small town live is better some say it’s boring. I’ve seen it all. I have my own house just for my family with no one else living in this structure I like it this way. Not into condos or any of that it’s the same as an apt to me. Condos have rules too I have no rules I can have a junk car in my yard if I want. I don’t but could. Nobody should have their neighbors complain about their house needing to be painted or whatever else they don’t like. A guy I work with has a house in florida and he told me he can’t have his work truck there because it’s considered an is ore I don’t get this who wants to put up with that. The neighbor don’t like you wood pile or garden or rain barrels they gonna rat you out to homeowners assoc. he said they do it to keep property value high. Whatever can I live really. I would never buy this kind of property. I’m fortunate to have good neighbors we say high in passing but mind our own business. I don’t care what they do next door it’s their business. Mine don’t know that I prepare for hard times I don’t know if they do either . There are a few elderly subsidized housing areas around. But the over 55 crowd is not rowdy at all. I go to work and do what I have to after work I have my own agenda. I don’t talk about it to others. Just my wife she’s helpful and understands why I’m putting things back and learning new skills . She used to be one who thinks nothing will happen. But after going through a flood and some power outages she has come to see what I say about being on our own.

      50. If you have a mortage it allows the lenders to stick their hands into your pockets and extract your personal wealth. Far to many people buy more house than they need.

      51. Just saw that oil workers are going on strike. Threatening to shut down oil refineries. Gas prices are going up. Fill up now folks…..peace

        • Been there done that back in 1980. The impact upon production will be insignificant. The number of people needed in operations is very small. They suspend the engineering and use the engineers as operators. Maintenance does catch up over time but they can go for months like this.

          There is an increased risk of an oops.

        • Ed, —So what are they claiming to go on strike for? How do they ask for more money when prices are going down? You only go on strike when demand for your products increase. Hell I would just lay the stikers off and tell them to beat it. They have no leverage to go on strike. Sounds like a smoke screen to try and artificially boost gas prices.

          There is so much oil and gas sitting in reserve that I highly doubt, that it will affect gas or oil to go up. In fact all the US Oil Companies are still producing oil even though they are loosing money below $45/Brl. The Saudi’s will push Oil down to mid $30, so look for at least another 10 off today’s prices. Never hurts to stock up and rotate out your gas, but All I see yet is down arrows on energy. Look for $1.00 to $1.25 Gas by summer.

      52. For those of us getting blasted by snow, can SOMEONE please call Al Gore to shovel for me? I’m sure with all his BIG GREEN MONEY generated by his global warming scam, he can afford to send someoen

        • Yea, just saw that you folks are having another storm, snowy winter, stay warm!

      53. This was foretold in the Bible. There will be a wide chasm between the very wealthy, and the very poor. A great thing about America was a large, working, middle class, which will be eliminated.

        Revelation Chapter 6

        5 When the Lamb opened the third seal, I heard the third living creature say, “Come!” I looked, and there before me was a black horse! Its rider was holding a pair of scales in his hand. 6 Then I heard what sounded like a voice among the four living creatures, saying, “Two pounds[a] of wheat for a day’s wages,[b] and six pounds[c] of barley for a day’s wages,[d] and do not damage the oil and the wine!”

      54. The oil industry is the richest in the world they can afford to take a hit the real problems are with business taking out their misfortune on the workers. All the pain and suffering falls on workers and their family’s the oil industry has made more $ year after year even when the housing bust went down they have made record profits. This will be the first time they take a loss if at all. Oil is a commodity it takes a hit like other commodities what makes them special. With the lower gas prices I don’t see people driving gas guzzlers anymore. All cars are in the 30mpg range now. The gov making stricter economy standards for vehicles has hurt the oil business that’s good for motorists. I don’t see the oil folks hurting at all trust me I worked in the industry for a bit. There will never be an oil shortage this is fact do people think they would have built the highway system and fuel infrastructure if they thought they would run out of oil. I don’t think so there is oil they haven’t found yet or oil they haven’t the technology to reach and oil in foreign lands but there is enough to go around. It’s all a matter of how much$ they want for it who’s country has the most and how hard is it to extract that is it. The us gov remembers the oil crisis of the 70s they are prepared to wage war if needed to get it. It’s a matter of national security they will get it no matter what. I do think they are trying to get people out of automobiles and on bikes like china they say it’s cleaner bull the real reason is the road network is only built to handle so much traffic I have 3 kids they gonna have their own car someday so five cars at my house if everybody has 1 some folks have more than 1 where are all these vehicles gonna park in my city they have this ride service called zip car you use the car to go where you need then somebody else can rent to use too basically sharing a car type service. And there is other ride services to with apps on your phone you can get someone going in the same direction to give you a lift I’m not sure how it works really but a guy I work with is doing it. He’s trying to hook up with college chicks funny . This is what they want. I also saw over in Germany they are getting closer to cars that drive themselves when this happens there will be no need to own a vehicle you’ll be able to order 1 up like a pizza when you want to go. I don’t like this I like to drive but this is the future like it or not. I think we are at a crossroads we can keep pushing progress until it fails and we decend into war and destruction on a scale we have never seen before. I had a neighbor he was elderly so he ended up in a nursing home but I would walk my dog by and stop and talk with him he was a ww2 vet and he was telling me a story about how everything was blown up or burned down for miles around he said it was destruction most folks could only read about it was in Europe he said. Nice guy he liked my dog. When old war heroes talk I like to listen. A lot don’t like to talk about war it’s too painful so I never ask them to talk but sometimes they talk about it when they feel someone’s interested this man was definetly a officer the service was his life. He had other vets stop by to check on him. I really liked talkin with him. I’d bet he has far more stories to tell. The biggest problem with talking to elderly folks is sometimes they lose their mind. At that point you can’t really hold a good conversation with them. In america people dismiss elders. When I went to Jamaica people respect and appreciate the elders they have more years on this earth more seniority. Nowadays that don’t matter it seems. It doesent nessasarily mean they are smarter but it does mean they have had more life experiences.

      55. The rich and the poor who are these middle folks really good thing is they will always need peasants to make their plan work if the peasants revolt the tables can be turned but folks aren’t mad yet to do anything and it don’t look like they will be anytime soon either. Just a bunch of complainers . Like on talk radio complain about somebody’s policy’s but never offer up solutions to the problems. I learned along time ago never offer up suggestions someone will steal your ideas and say it was theirs. Hell with them they want to be in charge don’t ask me to solve your problems I don’t care anymore it’s all just making it through another day to me now. I got my own agenda that’s where I put my ideas. I used to care . Product of my environment . I’m a lot less stressed these days.

      56. Yup

      57. *******WARNING*******

        The Reset will immediately start after Super Bowl 49.

      58. Another big snow storm tonite through tomorrow so much for global warming theories. There is balls deep snow out there right now add 14 inches by the end of day tomorrow they gonna be hauling it out with 10 wheelers. I’m hoping for the phone call no work today ha ha. They are already behind a week at my work they’re fucked. The manager quit friday morning the place chews people up and spits them out. Now were gonna get some hard ass bastard that has something to prove. The teamsters will sit him down and the attitude will change on a dime ha ha ha. I liked our old manager he was a good guy. Never busted my balls always worked with me if I needed. They don’t bust our balls these brothers will throw out the anchor if they do. I love it stroking management is the best I remember working places with no rights screw that never again. If I can’t be union I’m going on the dole. I worked for 15 years as a peon made nothing had nothing. I go in do what I can whatever I can’t get to I don’t worry about it. Safety is top priority when driving a truck. Yep if they send me out in the snow gonna get the truck stuck at my first stop hit them with the call to send tow truck hahahahahahahaha. Kids school is already cancelled tomorrow.

      59. Renters and renting from parents. We have Obama to thank for he said he would fundamentally change America but we didn’t listen, TWICE. Thanks to our dependent nation, proud of yourself yet?

      60. Watch ‘Renter Nation’ from Future Money Trends:


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